Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump’s OWN Judges SHUT HIM DOWN + MORE

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

Defense attorney Michael Popok & former prosecutor Karen Friedman Agnifilo are back with a new episode of the midweek edition of the Legal AF pod. On this episode, they debate: 1. The limits on Trump���s expected testimony this week in the E Jean Carroll sex assault/defamation/punitive damages federal case, and whether Alina Habba lied to the judge to avoid his testimony; 2. Whether the United States Supreme Court will intervene in the DC Court of Appeals gag order on Trump’s speech while he is a criminal defendant; 3. Why 3 members of the Supreme Court rejected the Supremecy Clause and thought Texas had the right to enforce its own immigration policy; 4. A new decision by a leading Federal appeals court and whether it spells doom for Trump in the NYAG Civil Fraud case; and so much more at the intersection of law, politics and justice. DEALS FROM OUR SPONSORS! Co-Pilot: Head to https://go.mycopilot.com/LEGALAF to get a 14 day FREE trial with your own personal trainer. PolicyGenius: Head to https://policygenius.com/legalaf to get your free life insurance quotes and see how much you could save. Athletic Greens: Try AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase exclusively at https://drinkAG1.com/LEGALAF SUPPORT THE SHOW: Shop NEW LEGAL AF Merch at: https://store.meidastouch.com Join us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/meidastouch Sign up for the MeidasTouch newsletter: https://meidastouch.com/newsletter Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm Rob Gronkowski and last year I missed a fan duel kick of Destiny during the Super Bowl I spent the last year reflecting Meditating hanging out in Himalayan salt caves anything to get the image of that hook kick out of my head So when Fan Duel called and asked if I give it another go I jumped at the chance to lace them up for a shot at redemption. What's this? He's going to try again. And this year, I won't miss. The kick of Destiny 2 is here.

And this time, you get to pick if Gronk will make it or miss. Make your free pick now in the FanDuel Sportsbook Gap and watch the FanDuel Kick of Destiny live on Super Bowl Sunday. Make every moment more with FanDuel, North America's number one sportsbook. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling

or the gambling of someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge or go to connexontario.ca. Please play responsible. Welcome to the midweek edition of Legal AF with your regular co-anchors, Michael Popak, Karen Friedman, Eck Nifolo. There are four stories we just have to talk about at the intersection of law, politics,

and justice. And here we go. First, E. Gene Carroll, Case, Mito have went dark for a couple of days because somebody allegedly had COVID or did she? What was Alina Habba's real tactic there in doubling down that she had been exposed to COVID because she saw her parents and had a fever in court while she sat next to Donald Trump without a mask, was able to convince the judge to delay the trial and the testimony of Donald Trump to get over the New Hampshire primary

And then showed up in New Hampshire banging a tambourine and and talking to all sorts of Trump supporters without a mask of course and now she's now She's gonna have to maybe pay the price when she returns to court tomorrow Where we will finally find out if Donald Trump is really really going to testify in the e gincarroll case or not And we will caron and i will cover all that for tomorrow then We'll move on to the district of columbia court of appeals This time because donald trump likes when he loses on appeals he likes to lose more than once And so now he's lost again. He's asked for an on-bunk review,

re-hearing by all 12 judges of the D.C. Court of Appeals of a decision by the merits panel, a three-judge panel, that had already affirmed in large part Judge Chutkin's gag order on Donald Trump related to the D.C. election interference case, a case that we think will probably resume and go back to trial in April or May depending upon the results of another three-judge panel of the DC Court of Appeals But Donald Trump has lost again on his attempt to have the full 12 member DC Court of Appeals hear his appeal on bunk and therefore he's on the horns of a dilemma Does he does he risk it and try to take an appeal to the United States Supreme Court through Chief Justice? Roberts or does he leave well enough alone while they continue to decide whether he has president or one day

We'll decide whether he has presidential immunity for all things related to his criminal conduct and whether he belongs on the ballot or not in many states, including Arizona and Maine, and we will talk about that. And speaking of the Supreme Court, we learned two things about the United States Supreme Court this week. There are four justices who do not believe

in the supremacy clause. And they don't believe that the federal government has exclusive jurisdiction over things like immigration and foreign affairs. And we learned that two of the right-wing justices do believe in the supremacy clause because they joined with three others that we usually refer to as the liberal justices on the Supreme Court to stop children from dying on the border of the United States and Mexico on the supreme court to stop children from dying on the border of the united states and mexico on the rio grand river and opposed and stopped the state of texas from continuing to put up Miles of barbed wire which prevent the federal border patrol from doing their job including

Reaching and rescuing migrants who were in distress and And so we'll talk about that surprise ruling. And then there was a decision that just came out at the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, which has implications and ramifications for Donald Trump, although it didn't involve Donald Trump, and involved a person that the media likes to refer to as the pharma bro. He's the guy, Martin Scarelli,

who after he took over a company, decided to kind of jack up the prices related to medicine that was needed by lots of people for various elements of theirs. And, you know, he got sued by the federal government and various attorney generals around the country, including New York. He ultimately, after a jury trial

and a district court decision, he had $65 million discorged, went to jail, and a permanent ban placed on his ability to participate in the pharmaceutical company and for pharmaceutical industry. What does all this have to do with Donald Trump? Well, we have a very similar issue and very similar powers that are being litigated in the New York Attorney General case Against Donald Trump in which we've just had the closing arguments and the judge is writing his decision About whether Donald Trump should be permanently banned from the real estate industry in New York and whether the New York Attorney General has the power in addition to that to

Has the power, in addition to that, to, has the power to also, not only to scourge, but also ban him from the industry. And so that's a new case that's now going to go before the New York Attorney General. I'm sorry, he's going to go, sorry everybody, he's going to go to the Judge, Judge Angoran for an ultimate decision. All that, and maybe I can get my introduction a little bit smoother the next time around on the midweek edition of Legal Layup. Let me bring in my co-anchor

and see if she can do a better job not being so tongue-tied. I'm on the road, I'm sorry folks, and my computer's actually a little bit. Thank you very much. Karen, how are you? Good, I love when we're live. It's really fun, right? Yeah, well, we're always live, Karen, as you know.

All right, so moving on. Popak, I think we're having a little bit of a technical difficulty on your end. And I think it's because you're traveling. So we are going to just jump right into what's going on. And let's start with the E. Jean Carroll case, right? What's going on right now that is on pause and what is happening. It is absolutely mind-boggling that there is nothing going on right now because of COVID.

And the court system, especially in New York, takes COVID very seriously when there was lockdown, when the pandemic happened and there was a lockdown. COVID was something that prevented trials from going for about a year. And I'm sure it was like that in the rest of the country, but there was a very long time when there were no trials. And so it's still happening apparently,

because that's what's happening in the E. Jane Carroll case. And here, Alina Habba came to court and basically said that she was exposed to COVID. She wasn't feeling well. I think her partner was also exposed to COVID. And so one of the jurors also had COVID and all of the other jurors were exposed to them. But interestingly, Elina Habba shows up in New Hampshire.

So I'm not really sure how sick she was. She was not wearing a mask and she was in New Hampshire. And there she is all the way there. So I think Judge Kaplan might have something to say about that. But in any event, the case keeps getting continued or put over every couple of days, and now it has continued until Thursday. There are nine jurors in this case, and you do need a unanimous jury, but they can go with six jurors if the parties agree.

So we'll see if that ends up happening and if it turns out that the judge will excuse the juror or if they'll just keep continuing the case or we'll see how people are feeling. The judge did issue a minute order or just sort of a brief statement in the docket where he said he reinforced that the jury was going to be kept anonymous, that as a result, the jury is going to be brought back

and forth to court and be given their food, et cetera, all in an effort to keep them anonymous. And so that's what is happening right now in E. Jean Carroll. Hello, Popak, is back. We've been talking about E. Jean Carroll and Alina Habba. I've been watching it on my iPhone. Unfortunately, my computer decided that it had other plans. But I'm back. Thanks for to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. And I think, I think, I think, I'm going to be able to do that. I think, I think, I think, I'm going to be able to do that. I think, I think, I think, I'm going to be able to do that.

I think, I think, I think, I'm going to be able to do that. I think, I think, I think, I'm going to be able to do that. I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I got it. So let's start with Eugene Carroll, where you left off. So now we've got Alina Habba. We got an Alina Habba problem. Because Alina Habba, in order to obtain something that she couldn't get naturally, which was to delay the Trump testimony until after the New Hampshire primary

doubled down on her being ill when she looks like she wasn't really ill. What I think happened is the following. And I'm piecing this together from reporting of what I know about trial practice. The judge reported to the lawyers that, yeah, it was by the way, great save KFA. Did I thank her enough?

That's great save. I was off watching you instead of participating. The jury is nine people, but there are two alternates. Because some people get sick and have family emergencies and trials have to continue, the judge has given an inordinate amount of time here to delay the trial because of a one juror coming up with potential COVID. When it was obvious that the judge could reach into the alternate pool and pull the two alternate, one of the two alternates and put them into the box,

that's not what Alina Habba wanted for Donald Trump. She wanted desperately to have Donald Trump testify after the New Hampshire primary, if at all, and not before. And so I believe sensing that the judge was leaning towards replacing the sick juror and moving forward with the trial as E. Jean Carroll's lawyer wanted, Robbie Kaplan, she then decided to double down on that, seeing an opening as an opportunist and said,

well, I'm not feeling well either. I've got a fever and my parents had COVID and I was with them. Now, if I was a judge, I'd be like, well, you're sitting next to your client who's 80 years old without wearing a mask. How bad could your illness be? But again, he took her at face value and then that combination of the juror number three who needed a COVID test and Alina Hava complaining about having a fever, the judge was like, let's go dark for a day or two and we'll revisit the issue.

Now, I don't think the judge is gonna be that thrilled when he sees the photos that are out there now of Alina Hava, you know, there's a thank you for the arrow salty with Alina Hava standing next to Donald Trump or near Donald Trump at New Hampshire You know, she's also a legal advisor and there's a great photo of a maga Supporters taking a shot with Alina Hava by the way that we now have reporting or this information is out there by this guy

Self-reported that after he posted that photo because of course Trump camp didn't like that photo being out there That could be used in court. He got barred and banned from a event, a Trump event. And it was all complaining like, I'm one of your biggest supporters. I can't believe I've been banned. Welcome to Trump world. OK, you posted a photo of Alina Habba at the event, which you probably shouldn't have. So I think there's going to be I've been checking the docket to see if Robbie Kaplan and and E.G.

Carols lawyer would make an issue of it. Because I think we have extended this trial longer than it needs to be. This trial is almost done. There's only one or two witnesses left, maybe, if Donald Trump testifies. Everything else is in the can. We're left with closing arguments, jury instruction, and deliberation. And so that could be this week. The other trial, the trial of E. Jean Carroll over the summer

also took five or six days then to get to jury and jury deliberation. So this, if he, if he, let me ask you the first thing, what do you think the judge is going to do, Karen? Is he going to make an issue out of Alina Habba, you know, telling him that she was potentially also sick and then going off to New Hampshire, or is he just going to open the court tomorrow and get the jury back in the box and start taking evidence? Well, I think he's going to mention it for sure. I think that at this point now, he is going to restart the trial. Because she's clearly not sick and they're

supposed to be back tomorrow and potentially reseat the alternates, seat the alternates, and make them part of the jury. They can go with fewer jurors as well. So I think he's going to get started. And we'll see what happens if Trump does testify or not. That's going to be really the thing to watch. Because if you notice, it was like the battle

of the letter briefs the last couple of days, right? Back and forth, back and forth between Alina Habba and Robbie Kaplan, who's representing E. Jean Carroll. And they're back and forth on all these various issues. Habba's asking for a mistrial. Kaplan saying, you've already asked for that and it was denied. Kaplan has been Robbie Kaplan, not Judge Kaplan,

who gets really confusing here. Also, Alina Habba says there's a duty to mitigate. And again, Robbie Kaplan fires back. No, there isn't. And just lots and lots of stuff back and forth, even if there was a duty to mitigate, you can't just raise it mid-trial. You can't just change defenses now if there's an affirmative defense. And so it was a lot of back and forth. So there's still some stuff that needs to come, that needs to be resolved by the court. But the thing to watch is the letter that Robbie Kaplan gave to the court about Donald Trump's

testimony and basically said that you got to control him, Judge. He already has said he wants to use his time in court to basically say things that you've already ruled are inadmissible because don't forget, they've already determined that number one, E. Jean Carroll was raped, right? That is not up for debate. They've already also determined by a prior jury, and so it applies to this case too, that he acted with malice or malicious intent and has defamed her, that his statements were defamatory. And so the only thing left to discuss is how much money damages, right? How much money does he have to pay because he keeps going on and on and on.

And as he said, he is going to repeat his lies a thousand times. Right? He said that. And Robbie Kaplan cited that in her letter brief to Judge Kaplan saying he himself has said he's going to do it a thousand times. And so there's a lot of stuff that lawyers are asking the judge to rule on. I think also interestingly that came out in this particular letter brief exchange

was Robbie Kaplan said, we are no longer, although we said, judge, we wanted to use the Access Hollywood tape and we wanted to put the Access Hollywood tape and we wanted to put on the two witnesses, right, that talk about statements that E. Jean made. We're no longer going to do that. Okay. We are no longer going to use that, use that in our case in chief, partly because we think that Trump is going to turn

this entire thing into a campaign event. He's baiting the judge and he said he would love for the judge to exclude him, et cetera. And so she's trying to keep the trial focused at this point on just the damages and keep his testimony focused as well. So it'll be interesting to see exactly how Judge Kaplan limits Trump's testimony and whether Trump decides to testify or is going to claim the victim again,

that they won't let him speak. And if he does testify, you know he's gonna go off the rails. Let's see what Judge Kaplan will do. Federal court is nothing like state court. And we've said this before. And Judge Kaplan has been around the block a long time. He is a very well respected judge who knows how to control the courtroom, control witnesses.

And so he is not going to allow Donald Trump to pull the stunts that he did in Judge Ngorong's case, which Judge Ngorong A, it's state court, but B, there was no jury there. So it kind of doesn't matter because Judge Ngorong can ignore the things that are inadmissible and inappropriate and just only look at things that are legal and admissible. But when you have a jury in the room, if Judge Ngoran had a jury in the room, he would not have allowed Donald Trump to do the things that he did. And I can tell you right now, Judge Kaplan isn't going to either. So so that will be really interesting to see really Judge Lewis Kaplan versus Donald Trump, because that's what isn't going to either. So that will be really interesting to see really Judge Lewis Kaplan versus Donald Trump because that's what this is going to be. Yeah, I mean, I have one thing that could happen if Donald Trump violates all of the

rules of the road that the judge has already set about the 20 things that he can't talk about About the 20 things that he can't talk about or it will be a mistrial or he'll be sanctioned I mean though those are pretty stiff Lines in the stand or guardrails that have been put around this trial in Donald Trump's testimony, you know, there's just he there's just More than a dozen things that categories of things that Donald Trump can't talk about that you've listed some of them here Donald Trump kind of heads into that direction or is led there by Alina Hava on purpose or accidentally, whether she tries to open the door or not, you're going to see a lot of it, and a lot of the jury being excused from the room,

or there's going to be a lot of work at the bench, you know, for a sidebar about the issue. And if he continues, the federal judge can do with the federal judge with Rudy Giuliani It could he could ultimately not the fear is that he'll Donald Trump will try to throw over the game board Because he's losing terribly in the courtroom to try to delay the inevitable Which is a jury verdict but if a person Tries to obtain a mistrial as opposed to it just sort of happening and it can't be fixed. The statements that are made can't be cured with a curative instruction of the jury,

which is the first sort of line of defense for the judge. Instead of just granting a mistrial and saying, oh, we got to start all over again, the judge could find Donald Trump in default and default and even on the issues of damages because this is not a liability case. As you said, Karen, the rape has been established by a judge and a jury. The defamation has been established by a judge. The elements leading into punitive damages have been established. It's only about the money now. It's only about the size of the judgment verdict by this new jury against Donald Trump. But the judge could find that Donald Trump

has lost his right to have a jury decide this issue and then make the decision himself and throw the book at him financially. So it's a dangerous game that Donald Trump may try to play. I'm still not completely convinced that he takes the stand. He's gonna lose whether he takes the stand or not. If he just wants to do it as a campaign moment, to grab the news cycle, that's one thing,

but he's not gonna win this trial. This jury is gonna rule against him. I'm sure they're fed up with Alina Hava, and I'm sure nothing that Donald Trump says on the stand within with, he's either going to stay in the box that's been given to him in color inside the lines, and that's not going to be helpful to the jury for punitive damages, or he's going to color outside of the lines

and risk having a default judgment or a sanction against him or being found in contempt. The only problem is if there's a default judgment or a sanction against them or being found in contempt? The only problem is, if there's a default judge, so a defendant can't cause his own mistrial, right? Because that would incentivize bad behavior. And so the judge isn't going to do that unless there's something really, really, a gracious happens, obviously, and then they have to.

But you really, there's a very strong public interest against allowing that. But if he's precluded from testifying, or if there's a default judgment against him, although I love that as an option, he will then, of course, play the victim card again, which is his favorite card, right? And so I think that they will do everything they can

to try and rein him in and try to make this just as tight as possible. But I don't think you can rein him in and he'll say he's the victim anyway, no matter what. Yeah, I agree. I think he's going to try. He's got his own agenda if he testifies. It's not, it's a mismatch between that and the justice system and the civil justice system here. And you're right, I think we have, but fortunately we've got a skilled practitioner in Robbie Kaplan. We've got an amazing judge in Lewis Kaplan. And then you've got a very weak trial lawyer practitioner in Alina Habba and you've got an out of control.

He's not even out of control. He's in control. He's going to do what he wants to do. Say he's out of control, makes it sound like this is an accident, whatever happens if he gets on the stand. But we will watch it closely in that case and we'll follow it the way we have. We've been dark a couple of days. It's allowed us to get some hot takes up collectively, Ben, you and me about the case, about the trial. I've got a viewer guide that's up in hot take land,

anticipating Donald Trump's testimony tomorrow, but we will have to, we'll have to, we'll have to kind of watch that. Let's, uh, Before you, before you move on, just I want to point out one more little, little tiny thing. One of the things Robbie Kaplan asked the judge to do was to make Trump certify, or swear, I should say, make him swear that he understands the limits. She said in her letter, there are any number of reasons why Mr. Trump

might perceive a personal or political benefit from intentionally turning this trial into a circus. And she said, so make him swear that he understands the limits. She wants to put him under oath to swear that he will not violate the court order because she's setting him up for contempt. So I just wanted to point that out, that she's making sure, uh, she's making sure that if necessary, he can be held in contempt. I agree with that. I think the faster you get Donald Trump under oath, the better because of, because of those very things. That's exactly the type of, um, great lawyering that I would expect from our friend of the

pod, Robbie Kaplan. We're going to talk next about the D.C. Court of Appeals handing Donald Trump another loss, and then Donald Trump having to make some sort of calculation about whether he's going to go to the United States Supreme Court again, go to that well again, related to the gag order that Judge Chutkin put in place that was largely affirmed by a three-judge merits panel of the D.C. Court of Appeals, and then you have what just happened that will describe and discuss at the full, on-bunk 12-judge panel of the D.C. Court of Appeals. And then we're going to talk about the Supreme Court decision, And it's temporary in nature, but it's powerful in impact of having five votes

to protect migrants and people trying to immigrate to this country and the ability of the federal government to regulate at the border, including through border patrol and to cut down, cut down inhumane miles of barbed wire, razor wire, that have been put up that prevent the border patrol and therefore the federal government from doing its job exclusive jurisdiction

to regulate the areas of immigration control and foreign policy. And that has pitted the Biden administration against which state, fill it in, fill the blanks, Texas, again, and then we'll talk about what the second circuit's recent decision this week about the Pharma bro and what it means for the power of the New York Attorney General in the case against Donald Trump

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I am rocking for 2024, which is good as I'm on the road. I'm in Georgia, visiting my mother. No, I mean, although I have my new wife 2024, which is good. I'm on the road. I'm in Georgia, visiting my mother. No, I mean, although I have my new opinions about Fonny Willis and Nathan Wade, which I shared in a hot take, which we'll be showing up soon. Maybe we'll talk about it at the end of the podcast, but that's where I'm at. This morning, I wasn't feeling great because I've been traveling too and I haven't been sleeping well. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to drink my AG one. And, you

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like it really helped me feel better. Yeah, me too. Especially running around, but, and we thank our sponsors because without them and everybody that's in our audience It's just Karen and me and Ben Chatting away on a zoom, which is what we used to do, but now back to legal a f Let me frame the we don't spend that much time on it But I'll frame the DC court of appeals issue that I'll turn it over to you to wrap it up Karen So as most people I hope recall there was a lot of gag orders that were being imposed on Donald Trump because of his bad behavior and conduct.

We had the ones up at New York with the New York Attorney General case with Judge Angorron, couple of gag orders related to Donald Trump, which he violated and had to pay a lot of fines to the court. And then Judge Jutkin had sort of had enough and Jack Smith, Special Counsel, the DC election interference case, which is currently in on ice, awaiting, and boy, are we tapping our foot here on legal AF, waiting for the DC court of appeals, three judge panel to make their ruling.

And we don't really know about whether Donald Trump has presidential absolute immunity from criminal conduct while he was in office. Just saying it out loud, even, you know, I would think our legal AFs law students were all like, how could that even be a thing? And we don't think it is. And we're just kind of perplexed a little bit

while we're waiting around for Judge Pan, Judge Childs and Judge Henderson to get together and vote and write an opinion. An opinion that frankly I thought was going to take about four days, given the fact that every one of the justices that have ever touched the issue has indicated that they think it's important from a public policy and a justice standpoint that the trial of Donald Trump on the issues in the DC election interference case go to trial before November. Well, then hurry up and write the decision. It doesn't take that long, but they are taking that long.

In the meantime, the trial level activity is virtually stayed, meaning we've lost the March trial date, just to manage expectations. There's not going to be a first week in March trial of Donald Trump at all based on the recent rulings by Judge Chutkin If it's an April trial that would be great may is probably more likely still enough time Then of course the may trial date Collides with judge Aileen Cannon who's been holding a table for Donald Trump allegedly in the in the obstruction and espionage case in Mar-a-Lago So you got all these things going on in the meantime Chuck in gag Donald Trump the gag order is still in place

Even though the case is stayed even the case is on ice awaiting this DC court of appeals ruling the gag order is in place And so far sort of kind of Donald Trump hasn't violated And if he did Jack Smith would file something and that the judge has said she retains jurisdiction to continue to enforce Donald Trump didn't like the gag order the judge Chutkin imposed that ain't another a separate three judge merits panel of the DC Court of Appeals Did a little they did a little editing a little editing but the heart of the Judge Chutkin gag order in place and affirmed by that three judge panel.

And because Donald Trump, I guess, thought he would get a majority of 12, which was virtually impossible. And I said this on a hot take, and I said it to Ben, and Ben didn't agree with me at the time, which I will remind him on Saturday, because there was already three judges that were against it. And so because it was it was unanimous. And then that left nine left,

which means in order to get the majority, he had to get, you know, four, four more out of the remaining five, or six, he had to get four out of the six. I just didn't think he was gonna be able to do that, even if they got to the merits of the remaining five or six, he had to get four out of the six. I just didn't think he was going to be able to do that, even if they got to the merits of the argument. But he can't even get to a 12-judge panel for re-hearing because, and I'll turn it over to Karen. Because in a very short, brief order, the entire panel basically said,

upon consideration of appellant's petition for a rehearing on bonk, the response there to and the absence of a request by any member of the court for a vote, it is ordered that the petition be denied, which basically means that nobody asked to dissent, nobody asked to be heard, nobody asked to do anything other than just denied. I can't remember, somebody says, there was a judge,

a judge's favorite, there's a famous quote from a judge that is, I have two words to say to your request, denied, which I thought was hilarious. And this is just a massive, massive smack. It's a huge blow because not one of the 12, we know the three that voted in the merits panel, we're not going to vote for reconsideration at the 12 judge panel. So take them off the board. Of the remaining nine,

he needed to get a total, he has to get a majority to even consider having the en banc, and then they have the en banc, and then they have the, then they have to vote again to see based on the merits, whether they're going, they couldn't even get, couldn't even get two nickels to rub together. He couldn't get one judge to say, I think the three judge merits panel got it wrong, which is no surprise, because Judge Millette wrote the opinion and she's very well respected.

Again, one of these short list Supreme Court people, as a lot of them are against the, you know, the DC Court of Appeals, as we've said before, is the feeder program, sort of the minor leagues for the United States Supreme Court. Many of them get elevated to the United States Supreme Court. That's where Katanji Brown Jackson came from. That's where many of them came from, frankly. And so, you know, that, but that's another resounding loss. This is the strategy that Donald Trump's, that's giving strategy a way too big of a heavy lift there in the sentence. The strategy of Donald Trump, I don't know who the strategist for Donald Trump is. Boris Epstein seems to be the one that

forces Donald Trump or reinforces with Donald Trump that he should file these ridiculous lawsuits that end up getting Donald Trump sanctioned in Florida, in New York, in different places. And then he's got this other group of appellate lawyers, like John Sauer, who's not very good. He was the one that argued the presidential immunity case, the one that got all caught up and started the stammer about whether Donald Trump could order SEAL Team Six

to take out a political rival or not. Would that be okay? That was the question there. You figure he'd be prepared for something like that, but he wasn't. Trump, because nobody wants to work for Trump, that's a very good lawyer, does not have a brain trust around him to help him make decisions. If I were in his camp, which one disclaimer, I would never be working for Donald Trump. But if I was, I would never take an unbunked decision, an unbunked request for consideration. Now Donald Trump has got a harder case

because now the United States Supreme Court and John Roberts, who would be the first judge on the first stop on the train, if Donald Trump tries to appeal the gag order I want to turn this back to you Appeal the gag order to the United States Supreme Court through John Roberts They already know that not one about one of the 12 people that are their colleagues right below them thought It was worthwhile to change change them to change the decision. So let me ask you Do you think Donald Trump takes this on appeal to the United States Supreme Court of

Trice? Only because I think his trial strategy is in all his cases is to throw Shit at the wall and to see what sticks and So he's just throwing everything out there because some things will delay if he can get any traction If he can just get any delay because he doesn't really want to go to trial on any of these cases. He just wants to play the victim and try to get himself elected president so he can dismiss

all these cases and never face any justice whatsoever. So his strategy is to muck up the works. He's got terrible lawyers who, well, I shouldn't say, some of them are terrible lawyers who don't know what they're doing. And if in some ways that plays into his whole, into his whole strategy, because they're just mucking up the works. And that's what he wants to do. He doesn't want to win on the merits. But I have three things to say. Number one, WTF is taking the DC circuit so long to rule on presidential immunity. I mean, they should have had that decision two weeks ago, when they, the day after that they, that they heard that case.

And unfortunately, because it's taking time now, it's playing into this whole thing about the case not going and this trial not going. And I think that the Judge Schutkin sees the writing on the wall that this case isn't going because she just scheduled another Jan 6 defendant, not Donald Trump, somebody else, his trial to start April 2nd. And so if she doesn't think this case is going anytime in March, or she would have not scheduled that case because

the Federal court trial dates are real. That's not again not like state court where it's sort of a suggestion And we'll see what happens and they get pushed and pushed and pushed trial dates are real in federal court So she knows it's not going in March and this also means she doesn't think it's going in April. So that made me really, really kind of sick to see that. And then number three, I'm reading the live chats. Jordy did not have a baby. Everyone's saying that Jordy had a girl. Jordy has not had a baby yet. So still on baby watch, but I just thought we should get that out there because I've seen lots of people lots of people saying it I Great I agree wrong on many of those counts related to Jordy will leave it at that

Honey, you're right about Chutkin because I think I did a hot take on this. She buried in her order on the motion that Donald Trump brought for contempt against Jack Smith, in which he cited 95% with Jack Smith and just gave a little ice and winter to Donald Trump about future motions that deal with substantive issues that need to be briefed before the judge will even allow them. She said, I don't expect, and this is different than I had actually thought, I, the judge said, I don't expect and I don't think that Trump and his team are preparing for the March trial. So, and I said, and she used her own quotes, you know, it's always great when judges quote themselves, I said that I thought there was if seven months was

available for real preparation, I thought that was sufficient time, but it's not going to be seven months because we've lost the month. There will be about two full weeks of the case being, more than two weeks of the case being stayed. And so it's almost a month since the appeal was filed, which is when she stayed it. It's two weeks since the oral argument. It's four weeks plus the case has been put on ice and therefore Even under Judge Chutkin's principles There's not enough time for Donald Trump And so I wasn't surprised when she said that then I wasn't surprised when she's already

Filling up her dance card for April with another with another case, but well, I don't know what's going on It's tapped. I have a theory that and I've kicked it around I think I kicked it around the kick the rock around with you a little bit too that Judge Pan who's gonna write the decision. I believe she's the one that came up with as and so masterfully came up with Talking about a sniper. She took out John Sauer at about two seconds flat with her Seal team six question to him. She either wants three a three oh and she's having trouble with Henderson Who's the George W. Bush appointee who has seems to have her own? her own unique

Interpretation of presidential powers and executive privilege as expressed in some other cases or It's just taking them longer to write the decision. I think they've already pulled and decided, I'd be shocked if child and pan haven't already decided against Donald Trump in their minds, and now they're either trying to get Henderson to come along for the ride and not dissent because it's such a momentous issue,

or they're hung up about the jurisdictional issue Which was raised not by the parties but by abacus friends of the court brief About whether the court has jurisdiction at all which is an easy off ramp to say I weak and this is not an appropriate Interlocutory or middle of the case midstream appeal. You got to wait till the end of the case It's not that kind of immunity as expressed in the United States Constitution Because presidential immunity is not in the United States Constitution. It's judge made. It's common law made It's from line of precedent of the United States Supreme Court dating back whatever, you know, getting back, you know It's 1807 or whatever the argument is so

There there's there's a struggle that we're not privy to that's going on behind the scenes I would assume that any day this we've been saying this for two weeks and any time this week or next week We're gonna see the decision and then there's gonna be an immediate status conference with judge Chutkin She's gonna call the lawyers back in and say we lost the month But I want to set this trial for and she's gonna she's gonna say it she's gonna say May 1 or whatever she says Because these Jan 6 trials don't go that long even though she set that April trial I mean unless they're the oath keepers of the Proud Boys

They don't go that long especially if it's a do we know if it's a bench trial a Karen? No jury. No, it's a jury trial It's criminal and you know, but look, I agree with you. They're probably arguing over some one portion of how they're going to rule, right? It doesn't necessarily mean the overall question of presidential immunity is really what's holding them down or holding them, keeping this back from being published.

It could be some one particular issue or holding them, keeping this back from being published. It could be some one particular issue within the greater issue. But the problem with that is then we're losing the forest for the trees, as they say, because this is a game of inches, right? This is Donald Trump every day, every week that goes by that these trials don't happen.

You get closer to the election and the harder It's gonna be to hold him accountable. Let's say he let's say he's convicted, but he's up in all the polls He's definitely the nominee You really think that a judge is gonna put him in prison at that point and sentence him and prevent him from from From actual the actual election I mean every day that goes by that he is not held accountable, that there are delays is every day

that we get closer and closer to never holding him accountable. And so he's winning. Even if he loses each argument, he is winning because these cases aren't going. And thank God for my old office, the Manhattan DA's office, because on March 24th in the Stormy Daniels election interference case, the very first time he engaged in election interference, my old office is going to say the three words that my three favorite words that I loved to say, which is, people are ready, and they are ready for trial, and they are going to go. And thank God for my

office. Everybody who's like, why is that the first case? Why is why are they bringing that case? Oh, who cares? Blah, blah, blah. Guess what? Manhattan DA's office once again, is going to be the office that brings it. and it's the only office That's going to do it. They were the first to indict and so I you know in a in a poetic justice Alvin Bragg who took a lot of crap Including being interviewed by you and taking crap in the in whatever chats we had at the moment You know, I think there's there's there's a certain cosmic justice to him being the one that brings the first there's there's there's a certain cosmic justice to him being the one that brings the first actual trial criminal trial against Donald Trump having brought the criminal trial against the Trump

organization. I got some exciting news. I'm excited about that. I got some exciting news to share with our live chat, which we're at about 17,000, which puts us in the top three in in YouTube live around the world. But that's not it. We have the ability, Legal AF, to put the Midas Touch Network over the top for 2 million free subscribers tonight during this show because we're only 5,000 away. I sound like the Jerry Lewis telethon. No, but it's 5,000. It's 5,000. We're only 5,000 away. Go ahead, Karen. Bring it

home. Let's do it on legal AF. Let's get to 2 million subscribers. And you know what, Popak? How about we do this? If we can get to 2 million subscribers during legal AF, these 5,000, let's send that person a legal AF t-shirt. Okay, Salty, figure out who the two million person is, will you? You know what? We have the ability to do that. And we should figure it out and we should send a legal, cause that's pretty incredible if we can do that during our show.

So everybody tell them how to do it, tell them how they can. All right, that's a very good idea. So we got 17,000 here in the chat and we've got people, this will go out, audio and video right after as everybody knows on the Midas touch network on on on their YouTube channel And there's a free subs. There's a subscription button and it's free if you were scared by it because you thought it meant money No, that's patreon Patreon is where you is where you sign up for five or $10 a month

and you get some free content and other things. You get new content and exclusive content that goes with that. But just to be on the network and to get the reminders and know about our content on Midas Touch and all the content providers like Karen and me and all the rest and all the other podcasts that we embrace, that's just free subscription.

So if that button was scaring you, you can do it now. You can go back out, you can stay here with us. You can go out and hit the subscribe button. It's in YouTube, right? It's in YouTube, right. It's the YouTube network platform for Midas Touch. The Midas Touch channel. You're already on it.

My dad is watching right now with my stepmom and my sister. So my sister needs to help my dad press that subscribe button because I'm not sure he's he watches. He's a legal AF. They are legal AF watchers. So let me ask Salty something without having him come on. Salty, is there a way to put a graphic with numbers at the bottom of the show while we're on this

that show the number dropping from 5,000 down to the number we need? Okay, I'm getting a maybe. He's gonna work on that. We might see numbers here at the bottom. And again, we're taking valuable time out from our legal analysis because this is really important. I can't express to you It's not an ego thing

It is and it keeps the network vital on the air and keeps all of your content providers and shows like legal AF Coming to you uninterrupted. It keeps our literally keeps our lights on We are unlike other shows. We can't do it without our audience and we are to paraphrase Obama We are the network you've been looking for because we are you okay? And so your voice is louder and heard if our network Touches this 2 million number. Sure. We want 3 million and we'll be pushing for that You know 6 months from now, but right now we need to get to that. It gives us instant credibility and just demonstrates the power of the build of the people that are making our journey part of theirs. And so I can't even express

to you what it would mean. And I would, it would take, we would, Karen and I would take special delight and we would never let the brothers forget it. If we can do it. Yeah. If we put them over the top on this particular show, we're both so competitive. We are right. We're all I don't know. People know this about Karen, Dean, Ben, we are very journey. Oh, I see. Look at Salty. Everybody who's who's going to be listening to the audio won't know what I'm talking about, but we have a number and we are now with a counter up on the screen in a little box near me that says sorry. Yeah, we're now we were started at 5,000 when I started this spiel Wow, we're now down to one nine nine five and we're gonna keep that counter running for the rest of the show as a motivation Last last note free. I can't stress free enough It's it's thumbs and fingers at this point people Just do it and let Karen and I have bragging rights about putting the whole network over the top

I promise you will never let them forget it. I'll do that's amazing that you're doing this I know it's absolutely crazy that he came up with a counter. I can't even there's gonna be a little extra something in His Christmas bonus for next year. He's amazing. He is amazing. All right, so all kidding aside We are we are having said all of that, we're going to go to our last commercial break with our sponsors that support our pro-democracy podcast. Here we go. Start the new year knowing you found the right life insurance to protect your family with policy genius.

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That's policygenius.com slash legal AF. And we are back and the counter is moving ever closer to where we wanna be. All right, all kidding aside, let's do some, this is serious, it's terrible segue and I apologize, but we've got the state of Texas Who else who has decided that they want to conduct their own foreign policy their own? COVID policy their own commander-in-chief policy their own women's right to choose policy and the rest of it has taken on the

Biden administration and Homeland Security Department again They've decided that they want to do, a terrible bit of performative theater and political theater by rolling out miles of razor wire at the Rio Grande border between Mexico and the United States. And all that's done is prevented the border patrol, which is the federal agency that's responsible for implementing federal exclusive supreme policy in the area of immigration and in a foreign affair and foreign policy to do their job, including when migrants such as a mother and two children who died in the beginning of January, because the border patrol couldn't get through the razor wire to reach them and they drowned

That is what we're talking about people We're talking about Migrants who are trying to breathe free and come to this country and are willing to risk it all through the Rio Grande and Are being at the last moment when their hopes and dreams are being extinguished, right? Because they're about to die. Texas offers them not a life preserver, but barbed wire. And so the border patrol and the office of home insecurity, Biden administration filed an appeal and to the United States Supreme Court from the Fifth Circuit,

which is again that thorn in the side of the Biden administration of the Fifth Circuit, which is again that thorn in the side of the Biden administration of the Fifth Circuit. What the MAGA do when they want to have policies like this is that they go run to some MAGA judge, federal judge in Texas, usually like in a place like Abilene that has one justice or one judge, one federal judge that's MAGA. And then they take it to the Fifth Circuit in New Orleans, who le's MAGA. And then they take it to the fifth circuit in New Orleans, who leans completely right, and then they get some wacky ruling, and then the Supreme Court has to deal with it. And so we thought this was like sort of a no-brainer,

when even though the fifth circuit said, we're gonna do an emergency appeal, and we're gonna have oral argument in February 8th and all of that, but in the meantime, the razor wire stays up. And that's not good enough for the Biden administration, but in the meantime, the razor wire stays up. That's not good enough for the Biden administration to let people die at the border. They ran to the United States Supreme Court on an emergency application coming out of

Texas, which is a Lido country for those that follow which just is assigned to which region, and the full panel without without it without a written decision but we know who dissented. I'll leave you with that. The full panel of the of the United States Supreme Court decided the issue and only five of the justices thought that the supremacy clause the United States Constitution is a real thing, which what I was taught in law school and forever until this current version of the United States Supreme Court that in certain areas of related to federal policy, immigration, the ability to conduct foreign policy and affairs, that is an exclusive jurisdiction for the federal government and our brand of federalism.

And it ousts the ability of states to interfere and legislate in that area. Like Texas can't have its own ambassador, right? Texas can't declare war on another country. You know, Texas, you know, because they're a state and states have certain powers that are given to them and there's provisions of the Constitution That you know anything not reserved to the federal government is is is reserved to the states Okay, I get that but in the areas where the country reigns supreme the federal government reigns supreme They have exclusive jurisdiction. They have forever except

course Gorsuch a Lido Kavanaugh and Thomas don't believe that and so they were willing to let the barbed wire stay in place believing that they The Texas had the better argument more likely to prove to win on appeal Then and the Fifth Circuit therefore therefore, than the others. But Amy Coney Barrett, I presume because dead children were involved and she's got nine children. I don't know. I want to hear your view on this one, Karen.

Joined with John Roberts, along with Sotomayor, Kagan, and Kataji Brown Jackson to stop and block the razor wire and let it be cut down by border patrol while the appeal continues to win its way through the Fifth Circuit. Now, so the Supreme Court hasn't made a substantive merits ruling, but has signaled to the Fifth Circuit where they're ultimately gonna end up

at least on a five to four vote. What did you make of it? And what did you make of Amy Coney Barrett joining with Roberts? Because she rarely does things of judicial courage. And why do you think she ended up there? And what happened to the other ones and the supremacy clause? What's your what's your theories on all of that? So this is look, this is a really tricky issue, because this is look this is a really tricky issue because this is really ultimately a complete and utter failure by Congress, right?

Congress that the current situation that we're in can't stay it should we we need to have Borders that are secure. We need to have a lawful way for people to come to this country a lawful way for people to come to this country. The reason there are people who are dying at the border is because we are not equipped as a country to have people just come in in the numbers that they're coming, the ways that they're coming. We're just not set up to handle it, not even just the entrance, but cities, sanctuary cities where these migrants are choosing to come and getting bust, are also feeling the massive, massive punishing amount. I mean, even New York City, they're running out of beds for people. You have a right to have anyone who asks has a right to be housed and have a bed and they're

running out. And there are people who are on the street. And so there's absolutely a complete and utter failure of Congress in this regard. And I think we have to call it out. And as a result, when you have people like, like Governor Abbott, who are willing to be inhumane and cruel, and put people's lives at risk, it really creates a situation that is untenable. And of course, there is no way, I mean, the supremacy clause is such a part of every part of our laws and legal system that at the end of the day,

that has to win and that has to win out. But I think what I make of this is just the sheer frustration that the justices are even having about look, this is we can talk about Texas tort law and the ability to to protect your borders and to protect your borders and you're, you know, they sued them. They basically, Texas did this under this weird tort law basically saying that the damage here is you're cutting my razor wire. I mean, that's not what this is about. This is not a case about cutting razor wire. This is a case about the failure of our immigration system and the fact that it does fall on all of the states. And so to me, this was a very technical ruling on a application to vacate an injunction pending appeal.

This is not even on the merits necessarily of the issue. It's just whether or not the Supremacy Clause applies and whether Texas can use their state tort law to restrain federal border patrol agents. And at the end of the day, right, they can't possibly say that an injunction was appropriate, which is what the Fifth Circuit allowed, because injunctive relief requires an irreparable injury and the cost of razor wire or salaries of Border Patrol agents is not irreparable. But at the end of the day,

something has to happen here because this is untenable. And nobody wants to, there are so many areas where Democrats and Republicans could agree, but the Republicans don't want to give the Democrats a win. Period, full stop. Even if they agree on the issue, they're never gonna do something that gives them a win

because this allows them to say, look, Joe Biden's failing. He's failed, look at his administration. Look what's happening and everybody feels it. Everybody sees it, especially the people who want to come here for a better life and should have a right to come here safely, but also orderly. And you just can't, this situation is untenable and shame on the Republicans who are using using them, truly using them to make a point and try to get their chosen dictator elected president.

And then he can turn around and save the day. So this really just pissed me off on so many levels and was frustrating because it's not about razor wire and the salaries of patrol agents, right? That's not what this is about. And so if we're just going to focus on that, we're not focusing on the issue. And so we have to call out Congress, in my opinion, for this utter failure because there are lives at stake. Yeah. We're going to see what the Fifth Circuit does next because just because the Supreme Court is signaled that they have five votes or John Roberts has five votes

To re-institute or reinstall supremacy clause and put the federal government back where it belongs which is Regulating exclusively in the area of immigration But the Fifth Circuit has been known to thumb their nose at their bosses at the Supreme Court and the appeal continues at the Fifth Circuit has been known to thumb their nose that their boss is the Supreme Court and the appeal continues at the Fifth Circuit with this ability for the Border Patrol to take down the razor wire in the meantime. But that doesn't mean the Fifth Circuit doesn't rule in favor of Texas and tries to reinstall

the barbed wire, the razor wire. And then we'll have to see at a substantive level what a Supreme Court would do. But I think the signal is already being sent. I mean, you'd have to really decide at the fifth circuit that you're going to thumb your nose at the Supreme Court if you're going to rule against the Biden administration at this point. But there's only one place where you can find out information about the developments on this. And as people, I think, have come to appreciate, we follow our stories and we update our stories both on the podcast and on hot takes in real time

as they happen. So let's turn now to our last story for today and kind of wrap it together. Cause to some people it would have been just, well, you know, Martin Shkreli, who was Farmer Boy, you know, has been trying to get out from under his prison sentence and being barred from the pharmaceutical industry and having spent and having had to repay $65 million in disgorgement brought by various New York Attorney generals, but it has an impact on

the New York Attorney General case. Her powers that are being challenged, including of disgorgement and permanent bans and, and semi permanent bans of people from, from different industries in the New York Attorney General case that she has against Donald Trump for his persistent fraud, the fraud of his companies that we're still waiting for Judge Angoron. And so as soon as the second circuit ruled, what happened next with the New York Attorney General and her letter over to a supplemental authority over to Judge Angoron, Karen?

Look, I mean, I'm going to just give one disclosure because my husband, who's a lawyer represented Martin Shprelly for a long time. So when I talk about the case, I have to in all fairness disclose that. And Martin Shkreli, basically a federal appeals court today, upheld a trial court's ruling banning Shkreli from the pharmaceutical industry for life. And that, that ruling, because there was a because that was a discouragement of profits, and it was also a banning from the industry. That was a case that was brought by the state of New York, joined by the Federal Trade Commission and many other states,

I think six or seven other states. And it was a bench trial like in Goran's case. And the judge there found, it was under 6312, which is the same statute that is applying in Trump's court. And it banned him for life, as well as disgorged profits. And so the attorney general, LaTia James, seized upon this decision, and basically,

in this ruling, because this is now a federal appeals court, and basically, we wanted to make sure that Arthur and Goron, the judge overseeing the case here in New York, the civil fraud trial, that this is appropriate and that we want the same treatment for Donald Trump, for Allen Weisselberg, for the former controller, McConaughey, and Eric and Don Jr. because it's the same statute, it's similar lawsuit, it's kind of provides a roadmap for what Judge Angoran will have to find in his finding if he wants to do this, right? Because one of the things that the court found in the Shkreli ruling was the scheme was egregious, deliberate, repetitive, long running, and ultimately dangerous. And therefore it was okay.

The injunction was a reasonable measure to protect the public from the risk of this recurring again. And the disgorgement was appropriate. So they literally gave a roadmap for Judge Angoran. If he wants to do this remedy, which is what the attorney general has asked for, they gave the roadmap of what he'll have to find. And so I wouldn't be surprised if his decision has some of that language or all of that language

if he decides to also provide that remedy in this case. Yep. And I appreciate all that. When you and I were talking about what we're doing today, I had known about your husband's role in that case. And I, but I was, I was pretty confident that the things we were gonna talk about wouldn't implicate any of that, but really just the legal principles. We don't shy, I think it demonstrates something here.

We have a lot of integrity on this show. And I'm gonna say it for my colleague. We disclose where we believe we have to, ethically, where we have connections or interactions. That so people understand that, you know, our opinions are our own. And then I'm not saying they're colored in any way, but that, you know, we're gonna be honest with our audience.

I think the honesty and the integrity I always find refreshing and it's I wouldn't do this Podcast and I wouldn't join forces with Midas touch or the brothers or with Karen if I didn't feel in the deepest part of My being the fiber of my being that I am doing this work with the most ethical and honest and kind group of people around. I mean, that's, I don't have to do this. And neither does Karen, neither does Ben, neither does the brothers. None of us have to do this. We want to do it. And in our interactions with each of you in chat, in life, rubbing elbows with you, is so heartwarming. And I just can't express enough for it. And that's why we feel compelled to say things like,

well, I was in front of that judge or, you know, we, one of my relatives handled a case that was really related to that. But we feel like your family, and we share things with you, good things in our family, bad things that happen in our family, Karen on law and order, sharing there, you know, because we just, it's the warm embrace of everybody that's part of the legal AF community can't be under, can't be underestimated. And, and like, for instance, I made a joke about an encounter that's salty made on the fly about New subscribers and I think we said I don't think we're gonna quite get there Karen But I think we set a record for new subscribers on a show with over 500, which is it's not quite 5,000 But it's really fantastic It is fantastic

And I want to thank everybody for taking the time out of They're watching and going out in free subscribing. It's not just for the numbers It's also it'll get you more content and more information and kind of keep you in the loop on things on the Midas Touch Network That you may not even be aware of and we have a very deep bench now of content providers and podcasts We're adding to them almost every day along with the Midas Touch website, which should be hopefully your home, your reef that you hang out at, because it provides you so much content, both video and editorial, newsroom and news breaking, and social media, all in one place at www.MidasT.com and then the other ways to support the show besides the

Things we're talking about a free subscribing is and everything I'm talking about is free is to subscribe as we've talked about And you're watching us on the video version of this We'll drop the audio in a few hours And if you click on the audio also just which is free and come back and forth, that helps with the algorithm. It keeps the lights on for the show, so to speak. It really is important. And I know a lot of people pick up new information either listening to it because sometimes they get caught up in the chat and some of the content kind of kind of goes, goes under the bridge there. And then we do a new thing in the last several months called legal af after dark

Which you'll find on youtube And I announced that I generally do the bumpers for it and I announce it and then that's a clip One of the segments of the four or five that we do each show and if you've seen it great We appreciate it take that clip and use it as a teaser an appetizer a little bit of an invitation To people in your life who you wanted to tell about the show, but it's easier than sending them Here's an hour and a half podcast you can send them one clip and see if they liked it And so it's for them and if you and it's also for people that you know Frankly don't have the the the time or the effort or they don't want to put in the effort to listen to an hour and a half

Podcast like the people here on our chat for instance And so it's a way for them to get bite-sized versions You know of the same show and listen to the segments and be updated or being introduced to it for the first time There are people on the Midas touch network that don't know anything about legal af and we try to do crossover episodes like for instance I'm going to be on the weekend show with anthony davis this weekend um and Karen's been crossed over and done, and done Lights On with Jessica. And so we do that on purpose. One, we really enjoy being on each other's shows. But it's also a way for us to expose who we are to a new audience that may not completely overlap with the audience that we currently have. And so, and then if you want

to fly the flag of Legal AF, we've got a store that sells merchandise And there it is stored dot mightestouch.com with exclusive gear and those were designed We mix and match you can mix and match these different logos for legal AF with with shirt types So we have all sorts of different cuts for the shirts So we have mugs and all different things that Karen took the lead on and helped get it a major amazing graphic designer to do the redo our logo and all of that. So that's what I got to say Karen. I always love when you end the show. What do you think?

I was so hoping to have bragging rights over the brothers. I'll tell you, I really wanted to get 2 million, but you know what? We got some numbers up there, but I really wish we could have gotten bragging rights, but honestly, in fairness, they kind of deserve it. So I hope it happens during their show. And since we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them. But the numbers are fantastical. I mean, as people know, because the brothers joke about it too, I started with the brothers when they were on their couch during COVID and so was I and they literally had

500 people on their website and they were dying for content And I just opened up a new office of a new law firm and I was like all right for you And this is how it started and it was literally 500 people I just clicked around while we were talking about the subscriber base just now and it's and yes We're gonna hit two million like in a minute But you know the network has been viewed over almost Three billion times three billion This is like the old McDonald's sign when I was a kid where they actually changed the numbers for how many burgers they sold

Yeah, now it just says well I don't know what it says, but he used to say billions of billions. But when I was a kid, I got excited because they would actually, I don't know if you remember this, Karen, they would change the numbers on the sign. The franchise or would go outside with like a little thing and it would say three billion. And then, you know, I'd get excited because it's like four billion. But like the viewing here is totally crazy. And salty just reminded me of something. Is that the anniversary for when Ben and I first went on the air? I think it is so legal AF's anniversary when Ben and I first hit the air as Legal AF because we were something else for a minute just before that. What were you?

legal roundup a Little known show that nobody watched and it wasn't very good, but But it got us started. It's not the stuff like that. There's a lawsuit with Monsanto because it like caused cancer. Yeah, right. It was right. It was terrible.

All right. So legally, I have anniversary March 23rd, which is true. That's only three years. That true salty. Why isn't it four years? Because we still wasn't a 2020 that we started. We're going to we're going to we're going to look into this. I'm going to have an offline discussion with salty because I know it was March of 2020. Maybe maybe it took us a while. Salty's

back checking about whether it was three or four years ago. Well, there's the whole COVID like that with this whole lost COVID year, right? We lost the year. Yeah. And we started as people may know, not to completely bore our audience, but Ben and I started as, okay, says it's official, Ben and I started as a special edition of the Midas Touch Brothers podcast on Wednesday nights. So they gave us Wednesday nights,

the brothers had the two nights, we did the Wednesday nights, and we weren't even our own thing. We were just special edition, Ben, my stylist, Michael Popock, and we did legal, which is sort of what we did. And then when we spun out and we decided we needed our own name, our own brand, our own album cover, and the whole thing, that's what Ben and I came up with,

legal AF, but okay, that's really important. And now we're gonna use that as a push, another push for how long we've been on the air. But listen, we's really important. And that we're going to use that as a push, another push for how long we've been on the air. But listen, we can't do this without you. We don't want to do this without you. And we really appreciate each and every one of you. I get fan email, which I try to respond to Karen does too. You know, we get stuff in the chats, I get stopped on the street and I have an amazing sets of conversations. And then there's this quiet group that I didn't even know we're watching us that will just pull tug my tug my lapel or my shoulder and just say, I love what you do at night.

I love I love the podcast, but why didn't even know we're watching it? Just totally crazy. It's all the crazy stuff. Right. It's great. Yeah. So until Saturday, bed my salads to me and next midweek with Karen and me. This is shout out to the legal AFers.

Shout out to the Midas Mighty and we'll see you on Legal AF.