Legal AF by MeidasTouch - VERDICT! Giuliani Gets WIPED OUT by Jury in Defamation Case

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

Legal AF hosts Ben Meiselas and Karen Friedman Agnifilo provide breaking news coverage on the verdict in the Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss defamation case against Rudy Giuliani. Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That was the total verdict in the defamation case brought against Rudy Giuliani by former Georgia election workers Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss after a week of trial. The jury started deliberating yesterday. They concluded their deliberations at the end of Friday and handed down what can only be described as an absolutely devastating verdict to Rudy Giuliani. Let me break down right now how this verdict shaped out. First, compensatory damages, economic damages, if you will. $16 million, $171,000 to Ruby Freeman, over $16 million there, and $16,998,000 for Shay Moss in compensatory damages, moving to intentional inflection of emotional distress in other words emotional distress damages We're talking about 20 million dollars for Ruby Freeman

20 million dollars for Shay Moss and then Punitive damages to punish Rudy Giuliani for his behavior is to punish Rudy Giuliani for his behavior, $75 million, nearly $150 million in total, a total wipeout for Rudy Giuliani. Eight jurors deliberated, this of course had to be a unanimous jury verdict. They went through lunch, they went to the end of the day Friday and handed down what can only be described as a soul crushing verdict to someone who absolutely deserved it, folks.

Justice was served today and Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss who went through unspeakable acts of defamatory conduct led by Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump and others getting their justice, the wheels of justice turned slowly, but justice was achieved in a Karen Freeman Agnifalo. Legal AF, what do you make of this verdict? Yeah, this is, talk about sending a message, right? So the beautiful thing about civil law, which is different than criminal law, is an criminal law when the jury comes back

and reaches a verdict. They have two options, right? Guilty, actually three options. Guilty, not guilty, or we can't make a decision. You really don't have a sense of how the jury feels about the case, and the jury really doesn't have anything sense of how the jury feels about the case and the jury really doesn't have anything to do with the sentencing, right? That's strictly in the judge's purview and the judge decide sentencing. Civil law, it's very different because the jury is the one who gets

to decide exactly what the punishment will be, what the damages will be, and this verdict sends a very strong message, just given how the punishment part of it, right? The punitive damages are, and this is an astounding verdict, and don't forget how Jerry Selection works. These are H.E.R.S. who Rudy Giuliani agreed to. His lawyers agreed to these eight people sitting and judging him in this case. And so this isn't, you know, they love to the MAGA Republicans love to talk about the deep state and everything.

They blame everything on Joe Biden and the Democrats. These are regular, every day people who Rudy Giuliani picked, Rudy Giuliani agreed to, actually both sides did, but they agreed to these eight people to sit in judgment of him. And they put on their case, right? They decided exactly what they were gonna put on there. He said he was going to prove that they were actually criminals and that they did do the things that they did, which of course

he didn't. And this is a total rejection and rebuke of what Rudy Giuliani says and what he says is the truth versus what people of the state or of the country, citizens of the United States of America believe. And so just for what it's worth with the MAGA people who are hitching their ride on these these lies and these stories and blaming the the you know blaming innocent people like

Shea Moss and Ruby Freeman. Take that as a sign of what will happen to you. It reminds me of the Fox verdict, right? Against dominion, the that whole that case where the similar kind of, you know, it was like a similar kind of payout, right, given the fact that, you know, that they were also lying and then that cost them millions and millions of dollars. And so all the people who want to hitch their wagon to Donald Trump, I mean, Rudy tried to be, you know, his alter ego doing exactly what Donald Trump does. He, you know, says one thing in court, lies, and then says something else outside a court, you know, the way Donald Trump does, but somehow

Donald Trump gets away with it. Rudy didn't get away with it. And this jury sent him a very, very strong message. And, you know, look, I still, the only thing I disagree with you, Ben on is you said, this is what Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss went through, they're still going through it. They're still getting threats, they're still getting harassed. They're still getting, this is a current situation because of what Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani have done to them.

And they get every, they should get every penny of this. And I hope they are able to go after Rudy Giuliani and take his assets. He has assets. He has an apartment. He has, I'm sure he has other assets. He has fallen from grace tremendously from when he was the United States attorney

for the Southern District of New York, arguably the most prestigious law enforcement position in the country. Also was the mayor of city of New York during 9-11 where so many of us were thankful for him stewarding us through that terrible time. I mean, he has gone so far off the deep end in following Donald Trump in that direction

that, you know what, frankly, he's caused so much harm. He deserves every penny they can get from him. And I really hope they are able to recover at least something from him. It's like Alex Jones is another one, right? Another huge verdict that, you know, the jury, when the jury speaks, and they punish him too for these lies.

So, you know, I think normal regular people don't want to stand for this. And if Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss, if we can ever have a trial in Washington, DC, for, you know, with Jackson's trial ever happens, I think they're going to be the star witnesses to put a face on what what these lies actually do to regular people. Well, and look, they showed up to testify. They were there to confront Rudy Giuliani. Giuliani said he was going to testify,

but was way too cowardly to actually testify, although he claimed to the media multiple times. He would, we have video of Rudy Giuliani leaving the courtroom right now. And Giuliani saying that he doesn't regret a damn thing is what he's saying as he was just hit with a 148 million dollar defamation party. Let's play the clip. I've Rudy Giuliani looking at his phone. He's being followed by some people who are obviously not fans of his attorney. Rudy Giuliani, having been delivered at almost 150.

Let's listen in. I don't go to damn thing, he just said. We have the actual press conference that Giuliani held his lawyer who was there. You see his lawyer standing next to him. Actually argued during closing argument that Giuliani did not present himself well at the trial, nor has Giuliani's conduct in recent times been something that should be applauded. But what and that's putting it lightly, what Giuliani's lawyer said is just remember he's an old man and and remember the good old times with Giuliani. That clearly also offended the sensibilities of this jury.

Here's what Rudy Giuliani said at the press conference as well. Let's play the clip. Of course, I very little I can say right now I have to analyze this. Obviously, possibly we'll move for a neutral. Certainly we'll appeal. The absurdity of the number merely underscores the absurdity of the entire proceeding where I've not been allowed to offer one single piece of evidence in defense of which I have a lot. So I am quite confident

when this case gets before a fair tribunal it'll be reversed so quickly, it'll make your head spin, and the absurd number that just came in will help that actually. Actually, it should be noted, I wanna get your full reaction to that Karen in just one moment that the jury verdict came in within the numbers that were discussed by the experts, and the punitive damages were not outside the range

of where the Supreme Court has held the punitive damages number can be excessive. And I think Judge Barrel Howell, who presided over this matter, and who just today was inquiring of all counsel, what do I do if Rudy Giuliani keeps engaging in defamatory conduct? Should there be a new case every time he goes out

and defamed them? Should I be imposing sanctions every time? It was one of the interesting questions that Judge Barrel how will ask the lawyers. And throughout this case, Rudy Giuliani has refused to turn over documents, hid his financials. At one point he entered into somewhat of a stipulation admitting to liability,

but otherwise engaged in obstruction throughout this entire process when he could have showed the evidence, including the other day when he said that he was going to show up. You wait and see, I'm going to tell the truth when he said he was going to testify, which he did not. One more clip I want to show you, Karen, then get your overall reaction to this press conference that Rudy Giuliani had. Also, what about his lawyer over there, like nodding as though, like, yeah, we got him. You just got hit with a $148 million verdict, dude. All right, let's take a quick look at this. This is Giuliani trying to explain why he didn't testify.

Play this clip. I'm scared of that. Why do you think it was unfair? Because I cannot go into the details. I didn't testify because the judge made it clear that if I made any mistake or did anything wrong, she was considering contempt. And this judge does have a reputation

for putting people in jail. And I saw it honestly, it wouldn't do any good. Karen, you're overall view to Giuliani's press conference after getting hit with the $148 million verdict. Well, his first of all, his shaky voice says it all. He's very upset. That's not the Rudy Giuliani that we're used to, right? He sounds like he's frankly holding back tears, you know, his voice was very shaky, which I can

understand. I would be too. This is just devastating. And he just lies. Like how can you say, I wasn't allowed to present any evidence, but you could have presented. Like they just lie. I don't understand. Like sometimes it makes you scratch your head and think, you know, like when he says things like, oh, you know, I'm gonna get a new trial. I'm like, how's he gonna do that? You know, don't forget he's a lawyer or at least he was a lawyer,

you know, and so he just says things that are nonsensical, not within the realm of truth and certainly not legal. So he could have presented whatever he wanted. This was what? The trial started Monday and they were done Thursday and they deliberated. I mean, the deliberations, I think, took as long as all the testimony. I mean, he could have done anything he wanted.

He could have put expert witnesses on. I mean, he could have presented, you know, present the truth that he promised, right? That they were criminals or whatever they said, he was going to prove they were. Present that evidence if you were going to unequivocally prove it. But he just says things, doesn't deliver. And then says, I'm the victim and I'm going to change it. And of course, nothing ever changes.

So I don't know how, where this playbook of MAGA, you know, kind of first lie, then when things don't go your way, then you're the victim, and then lie again. Like, it's this very strange thing that is resonating with people like him, but I frankly don't understand it. And there's no way to look at this other than the fact that the jury just 100% rejected this theory. 100% rejects what Rudy Giuliani said,

which is also what Trump said and everybody else said. It's a complete rejection of that. It's a complete rejection that there was any kind of fraud or anything in the election and the vote counts in Georgia. And it's a rejection of any mitigation for him. He deserves to be punished. And that's what the jury sent a message to him about today. And he can try to spin it however he wants outside of court, but the jury has spoken. Let me just show you those clips of Rudy Giuliani's behavior during the trial. After each day, he would go out there and defame Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss again. And he would also say,

just you wait until I testify, just you see what I'm going to show, I'm going to prove it all. Let me show you this first clip right here where Giuliani immediately defames Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss outside of the courthouse following the first day of the defamation case play. Whatever happened to them, which is unfortunate for other people overreaction, but everything I said about them is true. Do you regret what you did to... Of course I don't regret. I told the truth. They were engaged in changing votes. There's no proof of that. Oh, you're down right there. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. And then here he goes outside again and he says, when I testify in this trial, you will get the whole story and it will be definitive. Just you wait when I testify. Play this clip.

I was proven to be telling the truth and they were proven to be liars. Once again, that will happen. When I testify to get the whole story and it will be definitively clear that what I said was true. And then there's the broader point that Ure is caring about. This is not just Giuliani's playbook. This is the MAGA playbook overall and it's the Trump playbook and I'm going to conclude with this thought and then give you the final word. As we reflect on this $148 million defamation verdict, we look ahead to January and the end of January. There's another defamation case set for trial. Then you know who it is, the E. Jean Carroll defamation case against Donald Trump, where he has already been found liable and the case

is just on the issue of damages and punitive damages after Donald Trump has continued to torture and defame E. Jean Carroll after he was found to have sexually abused her and previously found to have defamed her. That will go before a federal jury in New York. And I think this $148 million verdict against Rudy Giuliani is going to be light compared to what Donald Trump could potentially be hit with there or definitely within the range of what I think we will all be expecting, or what I expect certainly in January at that defamation case brought by E. Jean Carroll. And it should be noted that when there are

appeals of these types of things, you have to post a bond. And you have to post a bond that's either equal to or oftentimes more than even what the verdict is to avail yourself of an appeal and an appeal process. So we will keep you posted as we learn more, Karen. I'm going to give you the final word here on a day of justice. Yeah, but to me, the final word is about shame, us and Ruby Freeman. That they are two beautiful people who are public servants and volunteered the day that they are now, you know, they think about it.

Who goes and works to count votes, right? It's a thankless job. It's absolutely a public service that our country and our democracy depends on. We need to encourage people to do it, thank them for their service. And hopefully they get to hear that people like us are appreciative of what they did. We're sorry for what they went through.

And we will keep amplifying their voices as much as possible so that they can hear the other message from other people. And I really hope they get their money because you got to hit them where it hurts Rudy Giuliani to make people stop. Thank you everybody for watching. An important breaking news update right here

on the conclusion of the Ruby Freeman, Shay Moss trial once again, a $148 million verdict. Make sure you hit subscribe on this MidasTouch YouTube channel. We're on our way to two million subscribers. Let's try to get there by the end of 2023 and please subscribe as well to the legal AF podcasts for more legal takes by Karen Friedman, Angneffalo, Michael Popok, and myself. See you next time. Hit subscribe. Aaron Freeman, AgniFellow, Michael, Popok, and myself.

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