Legends of the Old West - LEGENDS LITE | High West Whiskey

Episode Date: August 11, 2019

The story of how David Perkins, a biochemist, founded and named High West Whiskey. Learn the Old West meanings behind their “core four;” the laws necessary to make straight whiskey; how you can contribute to the preservation of the Old West by drinking American Prairie Bourbon; and which whiskey is best shared with a good lookin’ stranger. For more details, please visit www.blackbarrelmedia.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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massive thank you to everyone who voted to nominate us for People's Choice Awards. We made it. We've officially been nominated in the Storyteller Drama category. So we have one last favor. Please now vote for the actual award. At www.podcastawards.com in the Storyteller Drama category, vote for Legends of the Old West. We would be extremely, extremely grateful.

And please let us know on our social media when you voted. Also, I want to give a quick shout out to our friends at Jumboi Media and their show Laughs From the Past. We love to support our fellow history buffs and their show is full of interesting historical stories and it's funny, two things we love. So check out Laughs From the Past next time you're looking for a great history show. So today for Legends Light, if you follow our social media, you're well aware Chris and I are big fans of whiskey. And this may be bold,

but we do consider ourselves connoisseurs and we are not won over easily. On Legends Light, we want to start profiling some of our favorites and we prefer they have a tie to the Old West, obviously. So no better place I can think of to start than High West Whiskey. Joining me on the show today is Terry Ginsberg. He's held the titles of Whiskey Expert and a Whiskey Ambassador. But whatever his title, the information he shared

with me about whiskey and High West is genuinely fascinating. And I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a little taste testing involved during this conversation. So if you're settled in for the evening and not planning on driving anytime soon, sip along with us. Here's my conversation with Terry Ginsberg. As a podcast network, our first priority has always been audio and the stories we're able to share with you. But we also sell merch. And organizing that was made both possible and easy with Shopify. Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell and grow at every stage of your business. From the launch your online shop stage all the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage.

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at the distillery, we're not at the saloon, but we're at the Nelson Cottage. So thank you so much for being here. We're excited to talk about High West. We, obviously on our show, Legends of the Old West, it's very, very important to us. A big reason we started the show was to keep the spirit of the American West alive. And in this show, we wanted to delve into whiskeys of the West. And so we thought that High West was the perfect way to start, given that you share our mission. So thank you for joining us today. And we're glad to have you here too. And there's actually a lot of parks. We're in Park City, Utah so Nelson Cottage there's a lot of history, Park City history involved with this building which is why we call it the Nelson Cottage. And so yeah give us a little bit of that history. Well, Colonel Eliza Nelson

was one of the founding families of Park City. Oh, they were. So the building is not historic, but the people are historic. So they had seven children. This was built by their youngest daughter in 1925. So it actually used to be a home at one time. We naturally gutted it, added a kitchen in the back to do.

So we do mostly private affairs, but the other great thing we do here is whiskey-pairedners here which you're setting up for right now which is pretty amazing so we pair whiskey with food you know a lot of people have had wine pairings with food even beer pairings with food but very few people have had whiskey pairings with food that's really true and being at a distillery that makes us feel underappreciated okay so that's what that's why we do that's why we do is in one of our bottles here at High West was actually said by Mark Twain, which is my favorite saying in the world that too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough. Okay. So that's

what we're trying to do here. Try to keep people, educate people and educate people with whiskey and food because we use, our chefs use whiskey to cook the food too. Well, that's amazing. And then your just mission, the mission for High West is what? Okay. First of all, our mission at High West is to make the best whiskey we can make. Yes. And to share our love with whiskey, with our customers, and naturally welcome to our home here in the West. We're high up in the West. We're at 7,000 feet here right now. Right. Which is how we came up with our name, High West.

Right. I don't know if you've seen our logo. It's a horseshoe. Yes. So our two doors down is where our distillery is and our saloon is. It's made up of two historic buildings, an old livery stable built in 1907, and then a house built in 1914, both built by Ellsworth Beggs, who was a master carpenter. So the delivery was still had a dirt floor when we took it over. And when we were doing the

renovation, we actually found this big horseshoe in the floor there. And that inspired our logo to be High West. Wow. So that saloon, that's just a couple doors down from us. That's the original place that High West Saloon. That's where we started. That's the original. So we have a delivery stable and Mr. Beggs' house there. And then we connected them with the still in between the two of them. Amazing. And so we call one side the delivery side and one side the saloon side.

And they're both still open for business. Absolutely. So we'll be going down there after this. This December will be our 10th year. Wow. So let's go back to the beginning. So David Perkins is the founder of High West. That's exactly right.

And you, Terry, have been with High West from the beginning. You've been here for 10 years. So tell us the story a little bit about how did David Perkins come up with High West? You know what? It was just by chance. David Perkins was a biochemist. Okay. But he spent time in Colorado.

He loved the West. He loved the mountains. And so they moved from California here because they just loved the vibe of Park City. Right. So he and Jane, his wife, actually went to a wedding in Kentucky and decided to visit a distillery there. And being a biochemist, he saw distillation. Jane's great-grandfather was a distiller oh so they had that in their blood about whiskey and everything and um so dave said well you know what i can do this right and so the

master distiller there took him under his wing for about six months and then dave came back to park city and got 50 investors to put it put up 100 And we started out with $5 million in late, late 2009, really 2010. And that's how High West got started. We're actually the first legal distillery in Utah since the 1870s. So it's been a long time coming. So I find that fascinating. The first legal distillery since 1870. So let's back up a little bit to pre-1870. So what was the landscape like? I mean, there was certainly whiskey here. There were distilleries here. Then it wasn't legal. And now it became legal. So give me a little bit of the history. Well, there was always distilleries and, you know, distilleries being legal wasn't a big deal back in those days. But whiskey was

a big deal back in those days. And, you know, if you started a town out west here, the first building you built was going to be a saloon. Not just because of whiskey, because that's where you would eat dinner. That would be the town hall. That was a focal point of the whole town. I learned that. So saloon actually means large room. I learned that on your website. I actually, I don't think I'd actually known that fact.

So very interesting. Okay, continue. And so, and so, uh, whiskey was very important. I was, you know, it's tough to live out here. Right. And even, even up until prohibition time, people thought as whiskey being medicinal. Right. And the thing about whiskey is when you drink it, you feel better. So naturally people out West, you need, you need to chill out a little bit. So they would go into saloons because they had a hard day or hard weeks or hard months before they even see towns again. I think people still do that now. That's right. That's right. They still do because whiskey is really important for everything. Right. So, um, so whiskey was always popular out West. Uh, people made their own whiskey. A lot of it was brought from the east. Okay. Out here because people really didn't know how to make whiskey. So all the immigrants came out west.

So, you know, at our restaurant, people ask us what our cuisine is out there. And really, it's all over the world because America was started by people all over the world. That's true. Chinese, Italians, Irish, Scottish, and everything. Right. So our cuisine is all over. Everything. That's right, because we do. So that's what made up the West. So West was always different people.

In this room here, you've got a few pictures behind us you can see right now. This was actually part of the King's Survey. It's the first time they photographed the West. Really? And Mr. O'Sullivan took these photographs in this room here at Anderson College. We have lots of these photographs around here. And then he took the photos back East. And that was the first time people back East saw what the West looked like.

And then you want everyone wants to come to the West at that point. But people did come out West a long time ago in the early 1800s because the top hat was the hat to wear in those days. And that was made from beaver. Okay. Okay. Well, in the East, they trapped all the beaver. So the trappers moved out West because that's where the beavers was. The problem was there was nowhere to sell it. The beaver pelts, they would have to go all the way back to St. Louis. That was the closest place that they could sell their goods, sell their beaver pelts. So why is that? So what they did is, well, we named our first whiskey, our Rendezvous Rye here. This is

our Rendezvous Rye. This is a whiskey that made our company actually in 2000. This was your inaugural whiskey? This is in 2008, it was named top 10 new rye in the World. So this basically put us on that. So Rendezvous was actually a place that they would give. It was a little camp they set up. And all the travelers could come there and sell their pelts and then have to go way back east to do it. The first one was right up in Wyoming there. Okay.

It was around 1825, 1826. Right. It lasted for about a week. Okay. and then it came back for the next year. The next one was in northern Utah in Cache Valley. That was the first time they had brought whiskey to the rendezvous. So they didn't start bringing whiskey to the rendezvous? To the second year. Second year, okay.

And it lasted a month instead of a week. So we figured that's why whiskey started. that's why we named our new product. And actually there's a room in our saloon next door we call the Rendezvous Room. So the Rendezvous Room and you have the Rendezvous Rye. So the biggest mistake was not having whiskey as a part of this Rendezvous trade with the pelts. So actually the whiskey helped bring the trappers out there so and that's really how people started coming out west foot was trapped right trapping beaver right right so clearly whiskey makes everything better is what we've learned so okay all right great so we've got

a number of whiskeys in front of us i wish everyone could see this right now we'll certainly take some pictures but this is really a slice of heaven to be looking at with all these amazing ways in front of us so this is basically what we call our core four. So these are our four of our whiskeys that we have all the time. And these are the ones that we actually promote all the time. We have, certainly have eight or 10 other whiskeys that we come out with that we use year round, but these are the ones you'll always see no matter whoever sells High West. Well, and what I love about High West is the tie to the Old West in every single one of these core four, at least, is that they're all named for very specific reasons and very specific purposes. And so talk to us about the American Prairie bourbon and how that

got its name. So American Prairie, if you could see this, is the Prawn Hall and Antelope is on the front of it. So actually American Prairie Reserve is a conservation group that is buying up open space in eastern Montana to preserve. But there's a couple of species that are getting endangered over there. One of them is the grouse, and that's just for population. The other one is the pronghorn antelope, which is actually the fastest plant animal in North America. The problem with the pronghorn is they have a long migrating area. They can migrate up four to 500 miles a year, but they cannot jump over fences.

And that's why they're becoming endangered. So American Prairie Reserve is actually buying land and connecting old private lands that they own with public lands to make this open space for the pronghorn. And they're taking down all the fences and the barriers that can't go around. So they can survive. So they preserve an open space, which is what anybody that lives out west, that's what we love, open space.

Absolutely. So we actually give 10% of our profits to American Prairie Reserve because they're doing such a worthwhile thing. Well, I'm going to say cheers to that because that's what we have. And this is American Prairie we're drinking right now. So actually what I'm going to do is I like to just kind of rotate my glass and cover a bigger area here. Oh, that's interesting. Because one thing, we have these special glasses called Glen Carm. Right. You notice the top is smaller than the bottom. Yes. That's because you try to confine

whiskey vapors, which hang up just over the whiskey itself. So if you swirled whiskey, what's going to happen? It's going to come out. Yeah. Okay. So if you swirled whiskey, what's gonna happen? It's gonna- It's gonna come out, yeah. Okay, so instead of swirling, I just rotate it to cover more surface area. Okay. And another big mistake people do when they drink whiskey is they'll stick their nose right in the whiskey

like they do wine. Right. Problem with that is whiskey's a lot stronger than wine. Right. So it has a tendency to burn your nose. Oh. And then you won't be able to taste anything. Okay, that's a problem.

So I got my own special way to do it. Instead of using my nose, I'm actually going to use my mouth so I can take a deep breath. I'm going to go like this. I can take a deep breath. I'll actually taste it before I smell it and use two scents instead of one. So just try that and see if you don't get it on your palate like that. Shop with Rakuten and you'll get it. What's it? It's the best deal. The highest cash back. The most savings on your shopping. So join Rakuten and start getting cash back at Sephora, Old Navy, Expedia, and other stores you love.

You can even stack sales on top of cash back. Just start your shopping with Rakuten to save money at over 750 stores. Join for free at Rakuten.ca or get the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. And then take a small sip and just swish it around all your mouth just to make sure you cover all. And that's how we like to do it. Okay, everybody make sure you check out our social media because we're going to do a video demonstration of what just happened because I'm never drinking whiskey. And let me just tell you this.

That was amazing. This is just one way to drink whiskey. You know, the main thing you need to worry about is burning your nose, sticking it too close. Well, that was just life changing. One thing that I always tell people, which I'm pretty strong about is, is that drink whiskey the way you enjoy it. Right.

That's the only thing I care about. Right. Don't let somebody else to tell you this is the only way to drink whiskey the way you enjoy it. That's the only thing I care about. Don't let somebody else tell you this is the only way to drink whiskey. That's not true. All I care about is people enjoying their whiskey. To me, that's the right way to drink. Well, I'm still tasting this. And that was amazing. So we're going to demo that. A lot of sweetness because it's Yes. Yes. And so one thing that I want to mention that I also just think to give the scale of how big this reserve is that you guys are giving 10% of the proceeds to. So combined when this is done, and correct me if I'm wrong, it is going to be bigger than Yellowstone, Yosemite and Grand Teton National Parks combined. That's exactly right. It's a little bit bigger than Rhode Island is right now. Wow. But it's still growing and it's still growing.

And Montana is a huge state and they're in the eastern part there. So they're going to grab as much land as they can to preserve these animals. So when people buy American prairie bourbon, they are giving back to this reserve. Absolutely. That's such a cool story. Which is extremely important because they need money to buy this land. Right, right. That's amazing.

So once they buy the land, nothing will ever be there again. And I can guarantee it tastes amazing. That's what we just had a sip of. So I'm a fan. I will be buying it. Absolutely. So now, so going into, so we talked about Rendezvous, we talked about American Prairie. Tell me a story about Campfire. I love that name. Well, Campfire, I can't remember. One of our distillers just came up with, Well, Campfire, I can't remember. One of our distillers just came up with it. It's kind of like we always like to try different ways of drinking whiskey. And sometimes we'll age whiskeys in different types of barrels. But our forte as a distillery is to blend different straight whiskeys together.

Okay. As we started from the very beginning, and nobody else does it but us. I was just going to say, that's an interesting process. Campfire is like the ultimate blend of whiskeys. It's the world's only blend of a rye, a bourbon, and a scotch. The world's only blend. That's right. So three different whiskeys.

Say them again. Rye, bourbon, and scotch. Wow. Okay. Now we call it campfire because the scotch has got like a little smoky taste to it. And once you drink it, and we had a hard time naming this whiskey. It also took us about six months to come up with the name. And how we actually came up with the name is one of our distillers went camping one weekend.

And they were sitting by the fire and they were drinking whiskey. You know, and they got home and, you know, they smell like smoke. And when he came into work, he says, you know what? This just reminds me of what we just did this weekend. Sitting by the fire, drinking whiskey. And that's how we came up with the name Campfire. And when you taste a campfire, you get that smoky taste. It does remind you of a campfire experience.

I love that. And that's what I think all of our listeners and what we love. We love sitting around the cozy campfire. We love drinking our whiskey, telling stories. I mean, we're storytellers telling stories i mean we're we're storytellers of heart that's what we do and every story is told best with a glass of whiskey we feel so i mean that's an amazing cozy environment and setting so campfire whiskey when you're in that cozy setting i love and then on your website i absolutely love this that it's enjoyed what it's

enjoyed best with s'mores or good-looking strangers. So grab a good-looking stranger, grab some s'mores, and drink some campfire and tell some stories. Well, one thing about whiskey, all whiskey goes good with chocolate. That's true. Because the two main flavors you get from whiskey barrels, white oak barrels, is vanilla and caramel. Right, right. What goes better than vanilla and caramel than chocolate? Right. So s'mores are just natural.

Well, absolutely. So talk to me a little bit about your barreling process. So how s'mores are just natural. Well, absolutely. So talk, talk to me a little bit about your barreling process. So do you, do you, how long do you age the whiskeys? It's a wide range of age in here. If it's a straight whiskey now, we have straight whiskey laws in the United States. So if you want to call a straight whiskey, you have to meet certain criteria. The first one would be in the mashroom where everything starts out. You know, whiskey starts out as a beer. That's what whiskey is, distilled beer. So you need to make your beer and you make your beer from grains, different types of grains. And that's how you change the way your whiskey is. You change the grains, you change the amount

of grains, but there are strict laws when you make straight whiskeys, because if it was a rye, but there are strict laws when you make straight whiskeys because if it was a rye, your mash needs to start at a minimum of 51% rye. If it was a bourbon, it would be 51% corn. Then you have to be aged at least two years in a brand new charred American white oak barrel. So those are straight whiskey laws. And the barrel has to be charred.

It has to be charred, it has to be American white oak, and it has to be brand new. And for at least two years. Those are straight whiskey laws. And the barrel has to be charred. It has to be charred. It has to be American white oak and it has to be brand new. And for at least two years, those are straight whiskey laws. Now if you're not planning on making a straight whiskey, you don't have to hear those laws. We made these straight whiskey laws a long time ago when the federal government, we're talking about 1908 or something like that, because people were making bad whiskey. We can't have that. Well people had methanol in your spirit.

People were going blind. They were dying for whiskey and everything. Oh, my gosh. This is serious. That's very serious. This law came out. You had to say exactly what was in the whiskey, what the proof was, how old it was. And so only straight whiskeys are made in the United States.

You can't make them anywhere else. So that is basically our type of whiskey. Wow. Just like Scots and Irish whis, and Irish whiskey is Irish. Straight whiskeys are American whiskeys and everything. That's amazing. I don't think I really understood how the, I knew the charred barrels,

but the white oak and everything else, that's fascinating. And actually, some Scotch facilities own white oak foresters here in the United States because they don't want to ever run out of wood for the barrels. Because that's a key element. And so what Scotch is one thing,ch, one thing that Scotch is like,

is Scotch and Irish whiskeys are one of the few whiskeys that are aged in used barrels. And they love bourbon barrels. Oh, really? So that's why we sell our barrels. We sell them Scotch and Irish whiskeys. No way. Yeah.

Why is it that they love the used barrels? They like the flavors of the bourbon. Oh, okay. Because the bourbon will soak into the barrels. Right. And when they age their Scott, they'll get some of those in. So that's another reason why whiskey makers and all these new, now that we're trying new types of barrels to age our whiskey in,

because it gives you a little bit different experience. But whiskey was always strong in the West, and especially up here in Park City. Right. Now, Park City was a silver mining town for years and years and years right okay so the miners now this is where all because utah is mostly mormon sorry about it mormon for sure yeah mormons don't drink right right right but actually brigham young had the first still in utah that's interesting researchers found that out and wow and um uh they found out also that he disclaimed actually using the steel, even though there was a Whiskey Street down in Salt Lake City. I read that.

But he said, you know, he never used the steel. And it always reminded me of when Clinton said, yeah, but I didn't inhale. You know what I mean? So it was made a funny story. But Park City were miners. OK, these were tough guys. Right. So all the bars, all the brothels were up here and down in Price, which is in Southern

Utah. Right. So whiskey was very strong up here. Right. And we still, and Park City went broke three different times, but they kept finding mounds in here. And actually Colonel Nelson actually owned one of the biggest silver mines in Park City Mountain Resort, the Silver King Coalition mine. He actually owned one of the biggest silver mines in Park City Mountain Resort, the Silver King

Coalition mine. He actually owned that. And Colonel Nelson, I assume, is that with the cottage that we're sitting in is named after? That's exactly right. So Colonel Eliza Nelson founded one of the founding families of Park City. Very wealthy people. They actually donated the land to build the first hospital here. Oh my gosh. Their oldest daughter was the first head nurse there. Oh wow. And their youngest son was in Teddy Roosevelt's Rough Riders. Really?

So it's a really cool family that owned this place here. And we actually have a photograph of Colonel Liza Nelson in this place here. Oh, we'll take a picture. So we're very, very proud about this building here. So Silver Mountain Town, that's what came, brought people out west here. And that's how Park City got to be popular.

Right. Then it came the mountains. Now we run out of silver. Now we have the mountains to attract all our people. that's what came brought people out west here and that's how park city got to be popular right then it came the mountains now now we run out of silver now we have the mountains to attract all our peoples here but still one thing if you stay here are you gonna stay here tonight oh yeah 10 o'clock tonight downtown you'll hear a horn go off at 10 o'clock that was to let the miners know it was time to leave the bars and go home so they could be to work on time the next morning oh that's interesting now it's a horn to let people know get out to leave the bars and go home so they could be to work on time the next morning. Oh, that's interesting. Now it's a horn to let people know, get out, go to the bars. It's 10 o'clock every night. We'll have to listen for that tonight. That's awesome.

We've got one more that's in front of us, the Double Rye. So, Rye is our highest rated whiskey, but the Double Rye is our number one selling whiskey. Oh, it is? Why is that? Well, the Double Rye, because we make most of our rye cocktails withye. Okay. The greatest thing that that's actually one of my favorite whiskeys because we call it double rye because we're building a very young rye like a two-year-old which is really really spicy which is what I like. Right. Then we've been in with very old whiskeys. It's like some we blend it with one of our four to seven-year-old whiskey so it'll really be spicy right up front which is ryes are known for.

So ryes are made mostly from rye. They're spicy. Bourbon, so maybe as we had today, mostly from corn. So they're sweeter tasting whiskeys. Oh, interesting. So that's why I love this whiskey. That's actually our number one seller. So that goes with our core four. So Samaritan Prairie, Double Rye, Rendezvous, and Campfire is what we call our core four. Okay. So then I got to ask you one last question about your cocktails. I was looking on your website, some of your specialty cocktails. So what is your number one cocktail? Dead Man's Boot.

Dead Man's Boot. So what's in that? Well, it's rye, whiskey, tequila, lime juice, and ginger beer. And a couple of years ago, it was the name number one cocktail in Park City. So how does it get his name dead man's booth we actually just came into our general store and uh the girl uh who came up with with the uh cocktail herself so he had his old boots in there yeah from old dead man son this sounds kind of worse and that's it that's how we got it and that is our number one selling cocktail i love that so in all of your bars you sell the dead man's boots that's it it. That's it. And our lemonades, our whiskey lemonade.

Your whiskey lemonade. Whiskey and vodka lemonades. So it's got vodka in it as well. We do it both ways. Okay. And we make our own lemonade, which is why it's so good. Of course. It's like a mulled lemonade. So we take like a simple syrup.

Right. And we put vanilla beans, nutmeg, cinnamon and clove in there, cook it down. Then it's one part that, one part lemon juice, part and a half water. Then we put a nice mint leaf on top too. Of course you do. So we're not talking just sugar and lemons and water anymore. No, it's really, it's like a mold lemonade in it. It tastes really good hot. And it matches our older cocktails that we first started. And it's just still, those three cocktails are our top three cocktails. Now we do change our cocktails every six months. Oh, you do? We have a company competition now i'm in it every year too everybody tries to get their cocktail on the menu but we you know today now we're starting to make really sophisticated cocktails now so but our older ones that we made they're still our number

one sellers so everyone who works for high west can they they can come up with a cocktail and you guys all get together and you're trying each other's cocktails and then you have certain ones get on the menu for that month or something. Is that how it works? Well, we do it every six months. Every six months. Okay. So if you come up with a really good cocktail, you can get yours on our menu. Am I part of the High West family now? Can I come up with a cocktail? Absolutely. I love it. I love it. We're all family now. Because we always want to change our cocktails. We want to change our vibe in there. Now, you know, when you come into High West, we're going to treat you like you're our family.

We want to give you our High West experience, which is the Western experience. So my job as Whiskey Ambassador for High West is to give you the best experience that I can give you. But at the same time, I want to give you a little bit of education about whiskey. Absolutely. Because we think the more you know about whiskey, the more you're going to enjoy whiskey. And so when you leave our restaurant, my mission is going to have to make you a missionary of high west. So you'll tell somebody else and they'll come back in and tell somebody else. And so we always want to give you a wonderful experience when we come here.

We're going to tell a lot of people and I got it. And we're going to end this the way that we started this and that was you greeting us sitting out front on the shed roof porch as we walked up with an amazing high west greeting and welcoming us and we loved it and we were immediately family immediately felt like part of the high west family so this has been a very hospitable experience and thank you for the whiskeys thank you for this educational experience. And we're certainly going to tell everyone about it. And we'll be drinking American Prairie and we'll be giving back to the reserve.

We'll be drinking Campfire as we're sitting around with good looking strangers. And we'll be drinking your specialty cocktails. So Terry, thank you so much. Well, I did my job. Now you're a missionary too, right? I'm a missionary. I love it. Well, thanks for coming. Thanks very much.

Thank you so much. And we'll wrap this up so we can get to cocktailing. Okie doke. All right. Thank you so much, Terry. All right. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you, Terry, for the enlightening conversation. And make sure to check out our social media for Terry's suggested tutorial on how to drink whiskey. If you find yourself in Utah, check out the High West Distillery, the Saloon, and the Nelson Cottage, where we're sitting right now and plan to enjoy dinner here with a whiskey pairing. where we're sitting right now and plan to enjoy dinner here with a whiskey pairing. Also, if you're listening to our Black Sox scandal season on Infamous America right now,

you know what Chris has been working on. But within a couple weeks, he'll be back here with an update for our next season of Legends of the Old West, which I promise you will be a big one. Finally, please remember to vote for us at www.podcastawards.com for the best podcast in the storyteller drama category. See our social media feed for details and we'll see you next time. Thanks for listening.