Let's Be Honest with Kristin Cavallari - Not Being a Perfect Parent Is Actually a Good Thing

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Dr. Aliza Pressman joins me to talk about the 5 principles of parenting, a guide on how to raise good humans. We dive into how to have a secure attachment with your kids and how to repair it when it's been broken, effective ways to discipline, how to raise resilient kids, and how to navigate your kids' friendship drama.A word from our sponsors:Ritual - Get 25% off your first month for a limited time at ritual.com/BEHONEST. Start Ritual or add Synbiotic+ to your subscription today.SKIMS - Shop SKIMS T-Shirt shop at SKIMS.com. Now available in sizes XXS - 4X. If you haven't yet, be sure to let them know I sent you! After you place your order, select "podcast" in the survey and select my show in the dropdown menu that follows. Purely Elizabeth - Visit purelyelizabeth.com and use code HONEST at checkout for 20% off your first purchase. Purely Elizabeth. Savor the Start.Meta - Tap into the people on Facebook to fuel the things you're interested in.Produced by Dear Media.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. This is Let's Be Honest with Kristen Cavallari, a podcast all about getting real and open on everything from sex, relationships, reality TV, wellness, family, and so much more. And just a fair warning, there will probably be some oversharing. Welcome in to Let's Be Honest. I'm your host, Kristen Cavallari, and today's episode is all about parenting. I have with me Dr. Aliza Pressman. She's a developmental psychologist with nearly two decades of experience working with families and healthcare providers. She has a new book out, The Five Principles of Parenting, Your Essential Guide to Raising Good

Humans. Hi, thank you so much for being here. Hi, thank you for having me. Oh, that was a weird sound. I loved your book so much. I really feel like every parent should read it. I was just taking notes. I was highlighting things, marking pages. I just, I love all of the information that you have in there. So I'm really excited that you're here. And we're going to get to all of the five principles that you talk about, which are relationships, reflection, regulation, rules, and repair. But first I want to start with something that you said in the book, which is being a happy person doesn't mean you'll be happy all the time. I love this because I feel like as humans, you know, we have different moods all the time. We're not always perfect. And I

think as parents, it's really easy to get down on ourselves when we're not perfect all the time. But you say that there's actually a benefit to not being a perfect parent all the time. So that's music to my ears, and I'm sure everybody else is. So explain that to me. Yeah, I really, and I feel this because I'm a mother and I know the natural inclination to want to make everything perfect, to be the perfect mother and to make sure our kids are happy all the time. But what I love is that the science says that in fact, we need to have those imperfect moments of discord and disrepair and just mistakes in order to come back to connection, to get the stronger, more robust relationship with our kids that we're really hoping for that builds resilience.

So if you just think about working out and how, when you work out, you are making little tiny tears in your muscles so that your muscles can grow bigger and stronger. It's the same thing. We have to have those little moments to, to grow stronger. And I kind of think about just like when we see our kids happy all the time, like when we see our kids laughing or just having a great moment, we're not like, I bet they're going to feel this way forever. But when we see our kids struggling, we're terrified that this is, this can't, you know, like we can't handle this feeling it's too much and it's going to go on too long. And for some reason we lose, we lose that confidence that feelings are temporary. So I just want us to remember, we don't need or want our kids to

be happy all the time. That would be so bizarre and impossible. But what we want is for them to believe that they'll be happy again. Exactly. You know, like even in the rough moment, it's not, it's like a moment. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, unfortunately you learn to grow in those uncomfortable moments. You know, that's where the real beauty comes into. So it's just teaching our kids how to get through those moments. Well, so something else is, you know, when you become a parent, you learn, if you haven't worked through your own trauma, that obviously comes out as a parent. And even if you have worked through your trauma, we can still get triggered. You know, we still have those explosive moments, which obviously none of us want, but you talk about in your book,

how to stay grounded in the here and the now so that you don't have those crazy moments. You really talk about self-regulation and co-regulation. So tell me about the difference between the two and then how we can disarm our systems? So I think co-regulation is the most important unsung hero of child development because we have this assumption that we're going to teach our kids how to regulate themselves, that we're going to give these skills to our kids. But what we don't realize is the best way to teach them is to lend them our nervous system while theirs is still maturing. And like, not with the pressure of, oh my God, I just lost my, I don't know if I can curse, but I lost, I just lost my cool on this podcast. Okay. So I just lost my shit. That is not co-regulating. I don't want to lend that

nervous system to my little one. It's going to happen. But the idea is that more often than not, you're able to pause and distinguish between a real and imagined threat. And the real threat is like your kids running across the street. And if you don't yell and grab them, their life is in danger. But if they just like talked back to you or didn't listen about something or you had a long day and so you're just annoyed, that's and that's not a real threat. So you can actually pause. Breathe and like make a decision about what to do. And just that little moment, you're co-regulating. You're kind of letting them know that you don't need to say this is an emergency. And I feel like particularly with younger ones or even teenagers that are just

like out of their minds, losing it. When we can remind ourselves just internally, like you don't have to say it to your kids. In fact, if you do, I think they'd get annoyed. This is not an emergency. Like everybody's safe. It just is uncomfortable. Then you can get yourself back to a place where they can just borrow that nervous system. You never had to say a word. You don't need to be creepy and calm. It's just like you took a breath. Right. Right. Yeah, I know. And it's, I feel like it takes routine, right. To get into that habit of like pausing and being like, okay, taking a minute for yourself. Like it won't be perfect every time, but the more often you can do it, it will start to become habit is what I've noticed. Totally. It's like, you just keep

practicing until it's, it's wired. And then you give yourself grace when you lose your shit. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay. Let's talk about the five principles starting with relationships. So just explain to me what that means. Okay. So relationships and you might hear secure attachment relationships or sensitive caregiving or attunement. It's all the same. It's all relationships. And we know even adults thrive with having at least one person that kind of will tell them if there's broccoli in their teeth in a loving way, relationships are very important. You need to feel like somebody's got your back. So with kids, relationship is so protective. It buffers the impact of toxic stressors, like forget positive stress, which is like not getting picked for the soccer team or a new baby or, you know, change, but it's not harmful. that isn't being worked on. Something that's really, really big can move into the category

of tolerable stress just from having one adult that you have a close relationship with. And that builds resilience. So like when we're afraid that our kids are like going to get ruined by a moment, we can keep leaning into like, wait a second, no matter what happens in the world, if they have me by their side, not all the time, but just like in those heavy moments, they're, they're going to be okay. And I just, yeah, I go, I have to lean into that a lot because, you know, it's hard. It's hard to see them go through the things or even be the reason they're going through the things. Right. Well, yeah. I mean, you said that children really just need one caregiver that they have a secure attachment with. And I think, especially for a lot of single parents too, that is so refreshing to hear because you don't know,

you're like if the dad or the mom isn't in the picture, I mean that you're worried that that's going to affect the kids for the rest of their lives. And it will have an impact, obviously. But if you have that secure attachment, that is so beneficial for these kids. So let's talk about secure attachment. What do we have to be doing as parents to secure that relationship with our kids? Okay. So being able to sit with them through their feelings, not fix them, but just sort of be the safe place they can share their feelings. And you don't have to like chase them to make it better, just like that they feel like they can come to you and they're not going to get in trouble for having a feeling is huge. And again, just more often than not, paying attention to kind of what's going on for them, naming their feelings when you can. You know, nobody needs to be annoying. Nobody needs to be like using scripts. It's just, and truly most people who are asking have, you know, 65% of us come from secure attachment relationships. So more people

than, you know, it feels like more of us don't, but, but more, more likely when you're curious about it, when love isn't conditional, when you're not like punishing because you're not pleased. And I don't mean like consequences, natural and, you know, like discipline. So when you're trying to, obviously, and that's like one of the five principles is rules. And we'll certainly talk about that. So it's not about just like, you can do anything because I just love you. But it's about, I love you, even though there are times when I'm setting limits and boundaries, when I don't accept

certain behaviors, but the feelings are always welcome. So it's like all feelings are welcome. All behaviors are not. I'm here. And that's it. All right, ladies, let's talk skims. Everyone knows that finding the perfect t-shirt can be such a challenge. I've always had problems, whether knows that finding the perfect t-shirt can be such a challenge. I've always had problems, whether it was with the fit or the quality, but luckily the perfect t-shirt does exist and you can find it at skims. From cropped silhouettes to long sleeve layering tees, there's a style for everyone. You guys know I've been wearing skims for about a year now, and I just recently tried another one of their t-shirts.

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simple as that. I mean, in a funny way, like we have made parenting so complicated, so intense, and it's almost embarrassing how not complicated it is. Like the complication is that we're people and we're like filled with our own history and life and stories and childhood. And, but the actual act of being in a relationship is just seeing the other person, hearing the other person. It's like almost too simple. So it feels like we have to make it more complicated because something like this should be more complicated. Right. Okay. Well, that's also very refreshing. Okay. Let's talk about reflection. Okay. So reflection is the thing. It's our work and it's the things that you talked about. Like, where did I come from? You talk about this regularly, you know, like what's, how does this feel for me and why, and what do I need right

now? And what's this about? And how was I parented as a child? What was that experience for me and why, and what do I need right now? And what's this about? And how was I parented as a child? What was that experience for me? How was my partner or co-parent parented? What might be happening there? What do I want for my kid? It's just questions. You're reflecting and also asking questions about what your child needs, the pause. And you're basically just saying, instead of just making a decision about how to react or how to respond, I'm going to pause and think about it and just being thoughtful, just being reflective. There's no even, you know, asking yourself questions, not all the time. Like again, all of this is, you know, I want to make sure that nobody thinks of this as like, I have to do this all the time. Like more often than not, are you able to say, you know why I just lost it? Because I think what I would have, what would have mother. And so I'm now angry, but really I can come back because I just paused and I thought about it. And we know that kids

whose parents reflect back on their experience being parented are more likely to have a secure attachment. Which makes sense because that is, you know, being intimate in any kind of relationship is how you form that, that bond. So that makes sense. Opening up, sharing your world with somebody else. Yeah. Actually, to your point, these could, these are five principles for anything, right? Not like for adult relationships too. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, let's talk about regulation, which is kind of what we've also been talking about. Yeah, I mean, basically when you reflect, you give yourself the freedom to regulate.

Okay, yeah. So that you have now freedom to make a decision about how you want to respond intentionally instead of like deciding in the heat of the moment. Whenever you decide deciding in the heat of the moment, whenever you decide something in the heat of the moment, like you send that text, but without breathing, you say that thing. It's always a regret. Yeah. So like, if you're going to send it, at least breathe, at least ask yourself, what am I really doing here? And then if you've reflected and regulated and you're still going

to send it, or you're still going to yell, or you're still going to do the thing, I feel like that is still modeling for your kids. I did this with this, like I had the power of controlling myself and making an intentional choice. Yes. And now this is what's happening. And that feels so safe for kids that we kind of are are not acting like an autopilot where we just like kind of do things and say things without doing it intentionally. It just feels scary when people are just like flying by the seat of their pants and they're supposed to be steering the ship. Right. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. And with the rules, you talk about rules, boundaries and limits. So what are the difference between the three? Okay. So I think of rules as like the umbrella to boundaries, which is kind of the stuff we need to do between ourselves and others. It's like this invisible space that we create to make sure that there's a distinction between ourselves and others and rules that are

limits, which are, here's my expected, here's the expected behavior I have for you. This is what society is going to need you to do when you walk into a room. This is, you know, like how you can be in community with other people. You can't just be your own person who like walks through the world, you know, not really noticing that there are other people around you and not noticing that you've, you know, walked into the kitchen while two people are in conversation and you spilled something on the table and then started, you know, walked into the kitchen while two people are in conversation and you spilled something on the table and then started, you know, yelling like, no, or, you know, I mean, we can all think of like the little things where kids aren't, they're not trying to be defiant. They just aren't thinking about how their actions impact other people. They're just

appropriately self-absorbed. So like limits are like, Hey, there is expected behaviors. Like when you take your clothes off and you're getting undressed and you, instead of dumping your clothes on the floor, I expect you to put them in the laundry bin because that way your room is not disgusting and I'm not annoyed. Right. Exactly. I'm not annoyed. Right, exactly. I'm working on that with one of my three right now. Yeah, there you go. But then there's like the bigger picture stuff,

which is more like if you just want to have fundamental rules and you don't care about the little stuff like the laundry, just think about physical and emotional safety. Boundaries are for emotional safety and limits are for physical safety. Like you definitely can't hit your brother. Right. That is my limit. Right. Another one I could probably work on at my house a little bit, but let's say while we're on this subject, I want to talk about discipline. You know, I think as parents, we all want to know that we're doing things the right way. We just, we always want to feel confident that what we're doing isn't going to mess up our kids for the rest

of their lives. And so people always ask me how I specifically discipline my children. So I was really excited to get to that part in your book. So how can we effectively discipline and then what are discipline practices that just don't work? Okay. So tell me how old are your kids again? So my oldest is 11 and then almost 10 and eight. Okay. I mean, it's a lot right now. Yeah. So you have two that are like going through the beginnings of puberty and you've got one little one that you can hold on to at the, although I don't know, she's, so I've got two boys and a girl and my girl is my youngest and she's, she's a tough cookie because she's got two older brothers. So yeah, she's actually my

hardest kid. I mean, it'll serve her later, but I'm sure it doesn't feel great for you. Yeah. It's karma though. It's payback. It's fine. So when you're thinking about like overall house rules, like for discipline, it's kind of like, first of all, discipline is to teach. It's not to punish. We think of it as punishment. It's actually our job as the adults who are sort of, again, steering the ship is to teach our kids how to move through the world in a way that they can better interact in community, in a household. It's like, you're not just raising one kid. You have three kids who need to be able to be in the same house with each other and you. So, and then they need to go into school and behave around other people. So it's a lot of it is our teaching and noticing what, what skills are they missing that I need to like build a little bit

more of. So they get better at listening. So they can sort of move through the world with these expected behaviors. And so with the younger ones, sometimes, and even older ones, it really helps to break bigger tasks up into smaller tasks. Okay. Like sometimes, sometimes you just notice, like if I've asked you to, every time you take your clothes off, put your clothes in the laundry. I know this is a very superficial example, but whatever. But if I'm telling you that and you can't do it, so maybe instead of feeling like you're

just out to get me and I'm going to punish you, maybe it's okay. What can you manage? And you have old enough kids that you can just say, I asked you to punish you. Maybe it's okay. What can you manage? And you have old enough kids that you can just say, I asked you to do this. You're having trouble. Tell me, what do you think you can manage? How can I be more helpful? Okay. Cause then they're, they're like on board with you and you're keeping your rules. You're saying like, ultimately I can't have clothes all over the floor. Right. Let's work together to try to figure this out. Let's figure this out. And then let's think about what the natural and logical consequences are.

If you can't listen. Now, again, this is a very superficial example. So some people might. Well, I'll tell you what, I have a bunch of laundry sitting outside of my son's door right now. So no, actually, I am all in on this conversation. So there you go. So maybe a natural consequence, which maybe works a little more easily with girls than boys is your laundry

is not getting done. Like unless you do it, it's not getting done. Cause I'm not, my job isn't to go through the laundry, to pick up the things, to do all of that. And so if you, you know, and again, this is different households, different things, but it's perfectly reasonable and logical to say, here's what's the plan. We've talked about it. Maybe we made it a little bit easier. Like instead of having to put each piece of laundry in the laundry bin, we've moved the laundry bin to a different location. And we say like at the end of each day, you do it or whatever.

Okay. Right. But, but then if it's not getting done and you've shared this, you can just say, and when it doesn't get done, what do you think a logical consequence is here? To me, a logical consequence is, then you're not going to have the clothes that you want to wear. Yeah. Yeah. As simple as that. Exactly. As simple as that. Yeah. Okay. And, and so then they're motivated in one of two ways to learn how to do laundry themselves because they're like, Oh, I guess I'm doing this. Yeah. And all your kids are old enough or to put their clothes in the laundry

bin because they need to be respectful of the person who is doing their laundry. Exactly. It's so funny too, because two of my three will just, they'll have four outfits a day or they'll try things on and then they'll throw it in the laundry hamper. And I just was like, listen guys, the amount of laundry we're going through, I said, you're going to do your own laundry. If you guys don't start hanging up your clean clothes, that's driving me insane. That's also another point is like, if you are trying on 10 different outfits, like don't put in the laundry bin or the floor, it goes away. And otherwise, you know, let's figure out what, like, do we have too many clothes? Do you need a uniform? Like what's going

on here? I'm more than happy to go that route. Yeah. Okay. I mean, those are great tips. And again, very simple. It doesn't have to be complicated, which I love. Okay. I love. All right. And then the last rule is repair, which could possibly be the most important one. So explain that to me. I think repair really is because first of all, for our own souls, like just like to know how, like when it all goes to shit, that the relationship is strong enough that we can come back and make repairs. And not only is it okay, but that relationship is going to be stronger. And so, and in the repair research, which is true about adult relationships as well, but in repair research, they looked at the mother-child dyad, it's called, it's like the

pairing and found that they were only attuned, meaning like connected 33% of the time. And the rest of the time was, yeah, that's not that much. The rest of the time was discord and repair. And this was in the healthy relationships. So the problem is when there's more discord, less repair, it's not, you know, that you're always attuned, always getting along, always laughing, always connected. And disrepair doesn't necessarily mean fighting. It could just mean like you're zoned out. You're not paying attention. You're not present. And so to me, to know that repair and discord is like the majority of the time, I mean, that 33% of the time is that beautiful connection makes this whole thing so much easier when you screw up. Cause you're like, wait a second, this is normal.

Like this is what happens in perfectly healthy relationships. Cause here's what happens in unhealthy relationships. And there are plenty of people who might be listening to this. We might be among those people who can think back to early experiences where there was disrepair or fighting or disconnection. And it meant that there wasn't going to be repair. Oh yeah. That like, that's it. And so then you see you in relationships where you're like, well, I guess this is over because there was like one bad moment. Healthy, strong, emotionally connected people don't run away because there was that discord because they've had in their early experiences.

Hey, it was messy. Yeah. It's a messy dance. We stepped on each other's toes. We got, we got separated. We're coming back together now. So that's why repair is really important. And it looks like sometimes turning on a fun TV show together and like cuddling up and

laughing. And sometimes it looks, it's not like always like a deep conversation. Okay. I didn't know that. I thought it was always a, maybe not always deep, but definitely a conversation of like, Hey, I'm sorry. I yelled. That's not how I want to behave.

But sometimes it is really just coming back together like that. Well, just because it's untenable to expect that every single tiny little moment that's just like snippy and not your favorite. Okay. Requires like, cause then you'd catch yourself like apologizing 10 times a day. Yeah. And, and it would be disingenuous at a certain point. Like they'd be like, you're always apologizing, but you're not changing. So I, I prefer to like not take, of course, if it's big stuff, if you really blew up, then you want to say something when they're ready, when you're ready, you want to say like, Hey, exactly. As you said, I'm really sorry about that. That had to have been scary. And then explain it like not as an

excuse, but just like, I don't like how I reacted and I'm working on that. And I always love you. And it's not, it's not caboosed with, but if you hadn't done X, then I wouldn't have had to yell. Right. It's like therapy 101. You can never say, but like I learned that at a young age, like get that out of your vocabulary. And I think parents don't mean to do this when it just comes out as like, well, I wouldn't have to yell if you listened. You're right. I've actually said before, like, Hey, can we meet in the middle? Like if you don't disrespect me, obviously I won't blow up, you know, like that kind of thing. Is that okay? Or it really is just, I am sorry. I blew up on you. That is not what I want to be doing.

There are two different things. So separately you can say, we got to work on how you talk to me. Okay. Because when you disrespect me, I don't, I don't want to blow up. So I'm going to, I'm going to disengage to protect both of us. Okay. But I'm here. Like I want to help you. I want to do the thing, but you, you have to talk to me respectfully. Like that's, that's my expectation separately when you blow up, which you will. And, you know, cause it didn't go right all the time. You apologize, make reconnection. I really want people to think of repair as reconnecting versus just like repairing something broken. It's more like putting something back together that fits beautifully and is meant to, you know, like a

Lego. Yeah. Right. It just came apart, but it easily goes back together. It's not like shard, you know, glass and China that you need to glue carefully. And so sometimes it's just that apology, leave it at that. And later you could talk about like, by the way, we need to at some point address the way you're talking to me. Okay. That makes sense. I love that. All right, guys, a brand that we've all heard before and we love that is Facebook. On Facebook, I actually don't just scroll mindlessly. I've furthered my interest and I'm going above and beyond the scroll and I'm actually getting into things that I love and I'm learning too. For example, I'm really into cooking. You know,

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no refrigeration is needed. There's no more shame in your gut game. Symbiotic Plus and Ritual are here to celebrate, not hide your insides. Get 25% off your first month for a limited time at ritual.com slash be honest. Is the most damaging thing you can do for a child. And again, not every time this is just, time after time, but having a blow up, let's say, and then not repairing it, kind of sweeping it under the rug and almost pretending like it didn't even happen. Yeah, I mean, because over time and again, just as you said, let's all keep reminding ourselves this doesn't have to be perfect every time. It's more often than not. But more often than not, you want to acknowledge it because we we don't do a great job doing what's called naming our affective state, which is just like saying

what's happening in the feelings world. Just saying like, I'm a little unhinged today. I've had a long day, so I might be a little snippier and it has nothing to do with you. If we all said that before, you know, just like being like really intense, but not naming it, our kids wouldn't feel like they're losing their minds. They would be like, okay, I'm not thrilled to hear it, but not naming it, our kids wouldn't feel like they're losing their minds. They would be like, okay, I'm not thrilled to hear it, but like, it sounds like you've got you going on. And it's, it's, it's just like, we never want our kids to make a story up in their head. So like when you, if you fly off the handle and then you just like pretend it never happened, it might make them tell a story

that doesn't need to be told. Okay. Right. Like they're much more about them. You mean? Yes. They might be like, I'm unworthy. I'm crap. I'm my parent can't handle me, whatever it is. But once you've put it out there, it doesn't need to be a long thing. It's just like, Oh, I didn't love how I was this morning. And most of the time in healthy parent child thing. It's just like, Oh, I didn't love how I was this morning. And most of the time in healthy parent-child relationships, your kids are like, what are you talking about? Like that is so true. Yeah, no, you're right. Yeah. I've had times where I'm so sorry. I'm exhausted today. I didn't get any sleep last night. And they're like, Oh, you've been fine. You're like, Oh yeah. Great. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. Great. It's sort of nice that they know it's just, it's a sign that you have a great relationship and like, there's a rhythm and a dance to kind

of how you go into discord and repair. And a lot of the times, particularly with the kids, as they get older, they're just kind of like, I know we're moving on. Let's not even bother, but it's not because you're sweeping under the rug. It's because you have such a good relationship that it's just like, I know, I know, I know. Okay. That makes sense. And, you know, I think too, like having an accountability, owning your shit, I think it just humanizes us as parents too. And I also think that's good for kids just to see like, oh, okay. You're a real person. You also deal with shit. You know, I had the most sort of, sometimes I have these moments where I'm like, oh, okay, you're a real person. You also deal with shit. You know, I had the most sort of,

sometimes I have these moments where I'm like, I cannot believe as a developmental psychologist, this is like the most basic obvious thing, but I can't remember it in my parenting and my, it's so sad. But like, I remember when my daughter was nine, I was so livid because I had come home and there's probably way too much information, but I'm divorced and they, the house I had said like to my co-parent and my kids, like, yes, be here, do your thing. But I have people coming over for dinner. So just please don't leave it a mess. It was like this tiny little thing. I was so mad when I came home and it was, it was just a mess. And I definitely welled up, like my eyes welled up with tears. And my daughter looked up at me and was like, absolutely terrified. She was like, moms don't get sad. And I was like, oh, I have done a disservice. Like moms are people and I love you. And this is not like, because I don't love you.

And you're like, you're great. You, what you did, I feel was disrespectful. And I got upset about it, but I'm cause I'm a person, but I'm going to be okay. I know how to take care of myself. But it was in that moment that I was like, I think I've been too robotic. Like, I think I've been a little too like overly in control to the point where my kids are like, moms have emotions, different settings. Yeah. Wow. That is so interesting. So did things change for you then after that with how you were with your kids? Totally. I was so much more. I think that's why I, I started to say like, cause I think I probably, I was thinking about like when my grandmother died and I was really sad, I cried. And then I came out and told my kids. And I think thereafter I was like, if I do cry, it's because I'm sad because this is something to be sad about. And also I know that I can take care of myself. Like you don't need to take care of this feeling.

I think that's the scary thing is when your kids are like, mom needs me or she's not going to be able to be okay. That would be scary. But mom is crying because her grandmother died and that's sad. And, you know, that's a very appropriate feeling to have. And so I think that's what changed about my parenting was I was like, and I knew that academically or whatever, but I definitely did not live it. Wow. So interesting. That's a great story. Okay. You've talked a bunch about resilience, which I think is obviously one of the best things we can teach our kids. So you have five teachable skills to set your child up for resilience. So what are those skills? Okay. So the first thing is like all the

things we talked about are very highly linked with resilience. And so if you do nothing else and you don't even work on these skills, like your kids are going to have a much better shot at they're getting the best support they can. Okay, great. And then, so just the good news there. Yeah. So, and the skills they can work on are, I think of games, gratitude, autonomy, motivation, empathy, and self-regulation. Those are the skills that we want to build in our kids. Like we think a lot of times about like reading, writing, and arithmetic, but if you can build the skills of gratitude, autonomy, motivation, empathy, and self-regulation, you are setting your kids up to be able to bounce back during setbacks, adversity, and big stressors. And even the stuff we don't even want to think about that's traumatic.

It's, it's sort of giving them the foundation to have the best shot at that bounce back. It's not, you know, you can't control sort of who they are and their DNA and their genetics and like can't control the environment. We can't decide that like there isn't going to be a pandemic or there isn't going to be some parent losing a job or whatever it is. But so these skills are really important because they're so highly linked with bounce back ability with resilience. And it doesn't mean you're not going to be upset. Yeah. Just like we've talked about. It's like, it's more like, you know, that you're not always going to be upset. That's the, that's what resilience is, is like, this is right now. And I know from experience

and exposure and these tools that it's not forever. And again, I mean, these can be simple things, even just gratitude. We can use that one. It's at dinner saying And again, I mean, these can be simple things, even just gratitude. We can use that one. It's at dinner saying, Hey, what's everyone thankful for today? Very simple stuff, but it's like, yeah, you're hunting for the good and it goes a long way. So like, I have no idea who created the rosebud thorn thing at dinner, but it's the roses, you know, like what do you feel grateful for? What was, what was a positive? And then a thorn is like, just because we're feeling grateful doesn't mean that everything's all roses.

It's okay to also name the thorns. We just don't want to like only name the thorns or end with the thorns. So you also are like, what's your bud? What's the thing you're looking forward to? Oh, okay. I haven't heard the bud before. I like that. Yeah. It's just like, cause the rose, of course we want to like, what is something that was, that we feel grateful for today? The thorn is to just acknowledge that you can feel a range, but the bud keeps it, you know, forward focused. Okay.

I like that. I'll start doing that then too. Okay. And then something I'm actually very curious about is when your kid is going through friendship drama. And like I said, I have two boys and a girl. I did not know the boys have more drama. I am sitting here with both of my boys having a lot of friendship drama. So you have seven ways to navigate those tricky moments. So I need all the advice I can get from you right now. This is purposely for me. Will you tell me that, I mean, with whatever you're comfortable with, will you tell me kind of the circumstances so we could be really specific and helpful? Well, it's my oldest and I've sort of always known that, you know, friendships throughout high school, there's ebbs and flows of them. Like one minute you'll be best friends

with someone, the next minute someone else. But my, so my oldest will be 12 in August and he's already going through that. And he's actually dealt with it for a few years, but the boys will be pretty mean to each other sometimes and say some really nasty stuff. And I don't even know, you know, what exactly has happened that now they hate each other. And I know there'll be friends again in two weeks. So it's just like when he's, you know, my oldest has been kind of upset the last couple of weeks because his friends have said some really nasty things to him. And I know he has said stuff too. I'm not trying to, you know, just defend my son, but it's stuff that's really hurtful. So sometimes I don't know exactly what to say in

those moments. So he tells you when they say things. Yeah. He's really good about, I know, I know. That is so that's relationship right there when you were like, how do I know? And that already makes me feel like, you know, and, and not to worry people who have kids who aren't disclosers, but when you know that like your kid is going through something and they share it with you, that is, that's the answer. So I think in that moment you breathe, that's the first step of everything in life that you can do because then you won't. And it seems so simple again, but it's like, then you won't go into the tailspin of like, what does this mean? What do we do? What does this mean when, you know, when someone talked to me like that, or I don't know how nasty boys can be. I really didn't expect that. And so with especially emerging adolescents, take a breath

and then first say like in whatever language you want, like, I don't love a script because I feel like it's not genuine to, yeah. But like in whatever your language is, you're essentially saying that sucks. I'm so sorry. You know, that must've been the worst. That must've felt terrible. Whatever language you want, not too much, say less. Okay. Really don't have a lot of opportunity to say things before they're going to be like, I'm done with this. Yeah. And then see if that opens up more, ask a question that's reflective. So like, you know, really basically repeating like, so your friend told you whatever the nasty thing was and you felt, you know, you felt scared that he wasn't gonna be friends with you anymore

or whatever it is that they, you're basically repeating back through a question. You're making sure that you understand what it is that's bothering them. Essentially. You don't have to fix it. I know, which it can be hard as a parent, but I feel like I do a good job of that. We're like, you just, you have to experience these things. This is stuff we've all gone through. And I, I don't agree with the parents who insert themselves and try to fix everything. Like call the other. No, there are those parents too. And I'm like, I'm not here to jump in and save the day. Like they have to figure it out on their own at some point. Yeah. And, and I think like, if they say to you, I need your help, like, can you help me figure out the best move? You can play it out with them. You can say, all right, well, tell me what you were thinking. Yeah. And then like, you're helping them kind of, okay, so let's walk through the end

of that story. How does it end? How do you feel about that? Like you can help them if they're interested, but you don't call the parent unless there's obviously there's like one exception, which is bullying. Yeah. But for just being a jerk to your friend, no, do not get involved. Like we have, we're so we're like taking away the opportunity for our kids to just experience childhood and like the wear and tear of it. And I think you said something very important, which is in two weeks, they're going to be back to best friends or whatever. I think we forget. And we're like, our biggest job in those moments is not to have a big reaction because you want them to keep telling you. And if, like, if they tell you something and you're like, they're not coming

back. And if you crap on that other kid or you're like, well, that was, you know, then they're going to be afraid to be like, actually, we have a plan next week and I'd like to do it because then they're afraid you're going to be like, huh? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Last night, Jackson, my middle, he was dealing with something because his friend, he thought he could trust his friend and his friend went and told people some stuff that he said. And so he was really upset that he felt like he couldn't trust his best friend. And I mean, those are like, these are like life lessons. So yeah, I mean, I just sat there and I was like, buddy, I know. I know. I was like, I promise you, you will eventually find friends that you can trust that will be your ride or dies. And I know this just sucks right now,

but you know, it's like, you can't, you can't go in and fix that. Unfortunately, our kids have to have those moments. Yeah. It's true. And you know, to talk, when you were talking about resilience and like what builds resilience, that's in the category of positive stressor. Those moments build resilience. And if we take away those moments and we fix what's happening, they don't get the chance to build the muscle to learn that they can recover from the bigger things. These are the little things that feel so big. And I think we just have so much wisdom from experience that it's like hard not to impart that wisdom, but particularly with adolescents, like zip it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the adolescents, the teen years are coming. I don't know if I'm ready for all of that.

I so know you are. You are. You are the best. I could talk to you about this stuff for hours. I just think that your advice is so good. Really, everyone, you guys, you need to go out and get this book and tell everyone else where they can find you too, because I know you have a podcast as well. Yes, I have a podcast called Raising Good Humans. Even though the book is called The Five Principles of Parenting, there was another book called Raising Good Humans that was not by me. So it's a little confusing, but I have a podcast called Raising Good Humans and an Instagram is at Raising Good Humans podcast. And the book is The Five Principles

of Parenting. And I'm just here. So hopefully I can be helpful. Yeah. Well, you are. I think you really help so many people. So I really appreciate you being here so much and just keep being such an inspiration for parents out there because you really do make a difference. So thank you. Oh, my gosh. Thank you for having me.