Let's Be Honest with Kristin Cavallari - The Journey to Getting Sober with Jason and Ashley Wahler

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

Jason and Ashley join me for a very real conversation about addiction. Jason has one of the most inspiring stories about getting sober and overcoming his struggles. And Ashley sheds light on what it's like being alongside this process. If any listeners are dealing with an addict in their own lives, hopefully, this episode will leave you with some hope and tools to navigate this challenging time.A word from my sponsors:Bon Charge - BON CHARGE is having their coveted end-of-year sale, where you can save the most dollars all year! Go to boncharge.com and use coupon code HONEST25 to save 25%Gatorade - Put your water to work with Gatorade Hydration Booster. You can use code BOOST20 on Gatorade.com to try it yourself for 20% off. Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at Shopify.com/cavallari. Grow your business - no matter what stage you're in.SKIMS -  Shop SKIMS Holiday Shop at https://www.SKIMS.com/honest. Available in styles for women, men, kids and even pets! #skimspartnerHero Bread - Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order of their new recipe. Go to hero.co and use code HONEST at checkout.Nutrafol - Whether you're gifting to yourself for a loved one, give the gift of great hair growth this holiday season! Right now, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off any order! Enjoy free shipping when you subscribe. Go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promocode HONESTGIFT.For more Let's Be Honest, follow along at:@kristincavallari on Instagram@kristincavallari and @dearmedia on TikTokLet's Be Honest with Kristin Cavallari on YouTubeProduced by Dear Media.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. This is Let's Be Honest with Kristen Cavallari, a podcast all about getting real and open on everything from sex, relationships, reality TV, wellness, family, and so much more. And just a fair warning, there will probably be some oversharing. Jason and Ashley Waller, welcome to Let's Be Honest. How are you guys? Good, thank you for having us. I'm so excited you guys are here.

And if you're watching at home, there are construction workers in the background and trucks and it might get loud here in a minute, so I'm sorry if that's what happens. No, I want you to make yourself really comfortable. I want to be comfortable. Are you sure? We actually want you to sing a song to us. I'll save this for that one, okay. They were just making fun of me because I'm trying to get the camera set up.

This is a one-woman show, you guys, and it's crooked. Jason wasn't even in the frame. It's okay. We're making the most of it, okay? It's working. Okay. Well, I'm really excited that you guys are here. For the few people at home that may not know, Jason and I went to high school together.

You guys are married. We all reconnected here in the last few years when you guys moved to Franklin, Tennessee. And it's been incredible getting to know each other's families, getting the kids together. And I'm excited about this conversation because this today, you guys, is all going to be about addiction and sobriety. Jason, you have one of the most inspiring stories I've ever heard. And Ashley, you walked along him. And so I'm excited to talk about that. Jason, you and I recently went to lunch together and you told me that addiction affects, what was it? Over 46 million people. But really it affects so much more than that

because it affects everyone who's involved in that person's life. So it's safe to say over 150 million people at least. Yeah. Yes, that sounds correct. I mean, if you look at 46 million and you think of whether they have, you know, it's their son, their daughter, you know, their husband, their wife, their kids. I mean, everybody's got, you know, family and you look at how many people are tied to that. Yep. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it affects a lot of people.

Well, and just personally, I mean, I think everyone that I know has some sort of a story too, as I'm sure that's the same with you guys as well. So I'm really excited to talk to you too about witnessing that and being alongside Jason as he got sober. But Jason, I do want to start with your story and just how you got here today, your addiction and sobriety story. I mean, where should we start? You know, I look back, you know, after doing a lot of work on myself, I can see, you know, after doing a lot of work on myself, I can see, you know, that I struggled with addiction way before I ever picked up a drink or a drug. And what I mean by that is when I was about 11 or 12 years old, you know,

I struggled severely with OCD, you know, I'd wash my hands until they'd bleed. And I did have to put neoprene gloves on with Neosporin in them. And it was a really challenging time back then, you know, and I look at that and it was, that was the start of it. Right. And I mean, back then I had parents who were very supportive, very loving, very, very there for me, saw therapists, all psychiatrists was given medication and it helped mitigate the symptoms, but I never dealt with the underlying issues. Right. And so it was weird at that age, kind of when we connected, you know what I mean and being it was I was living like a double life at that age at 12 13 years old you know as part of the popular group was athletic was outgoing

but internally I was dealing with this this underlying thing you know like you know come home hands are cracking mom you know need you to put on the gloves again and as silly as that sounds that's kind of where this a lot of this stuff stemmed from and where it started. And so, again, at 12, 13, trying to navigate this life, living a double life. And fast forward a couple of years, and you find alcohol, and you find the relief of that. And I was like, dude, I found alcohol. Who needs medication? Which is crazy, though. I look at the first time I was ever actually introduced to alcohol, which was with my best friend, Brandon and his friend, Ross. I'm not going to share

the intimacy behind that story because it's pretty gross what happened. Wait, now I'm really nervous. Me too. I don't think I've heard that story before. Say that and then not say the story. Wait, and how old were you? I was like 13 or 14, which is crazy because I didn't, I don't even remember the first time I got drunk, but I remember this was like the first real time that we, this is the first real time. Like we, you know, we're, we're going to drink. His brother got, got a six pack or knows like a

12 pack came back. And it was like one of those things where I was drinking and pouring it over my shoulder. Cause well, I probably had like a few sips. They ended up getting smashed and, and, and one of them ended up passing out. And you know brandon brandon thought it'd be funny to go up to him and fart on him and and pull down his pants and shart it all over his face we did not need to hear my first story that was my first interaction with alcohol that made you want to keep going that made me want to keep going you guys said you wanted to hear that dude that's no you're right you're right you know i right. You know, I'm happy. Yeah. I don't know about that.

But anyways, so you think it was funny going back to like, so awkward. Sorry, Brandon. But it was, but that was literally, and I don't know why it's like, that's, I remember that was like the first time where we were like, we're intentionally going to go and drink. Right. And so the next thing that ended up happening is I tried, tried. So it ended up obviously loving alcohol down the road. But I remember the first time I smoked marijuana,

I was actually in Laguna, keep out who I was with. We smoked and we were down at Thalia and I ended up like it kicked in and I ended up having like the gnarliest panic attack. And I wrote, and I ran all the way from Thalia all the way home. Yeah. Just thinking that, thinking that the cops were going to get me. And so like the interactions that I personally had with substances, like were not like these amazing first experiences, obviously down the road, as I started drinking more and, you know, like engaged in it and got the effects of what it does to you, like there was a major relief for it and it ended up becoming an identity for me, you know? And so you fast forward that and there was some other, you know, I was dealing with insecurities. I was dealing with, you know, just shame and, and guilt and just underlying issues, right? That, well,

I was going to ask you about that. So that's, you think those are the reasons you were developing this OCD and then, or like, where did that come from? Well, so it's, it's interesting that OCD there's, and so I'll, I'll preface this. My family, there's pre-genetic disposition to addiction in my family and mental health. Okay. So half my family struggles with mental health and or addiction. I mean, I'm Cherokee, German and Irish should add a stamp on the forehead when I came out of the womb that says, you know, don't let this person use, but there was a long line of history with that.

And I don't know necessarily where for, for 20 years i never understood where the ocd had come from actually until i met with dr amen and did a scan with him all these years later keep in mind i mean i went to i mean what 13 or 14 treatment centers i've seen so many therapists so many psychologists and a lot have been very helpful and instrumental over the years and it's helped me get to where i'm at today but when i with him, it allotted me the opportunity to do a deeper dive and he had me get tested for pandas, which is basically where strep throat attacks, part of your brain that creates OCD. Wow. And so again, kind of putting this all together. I mean, you look back when I was such a young kid, cause I grew up with amazing parents. I had a stable home. I had

amazing morals, amazing values. I probably had an idyllic you know childhood you know it was amazing growing up where we did and and just having the family that I did in in the you know the siblings and the support was was all there but it it uh it all makes sense now kind of coming back to this but that's where those things started to domino and again is is with the OCD I mean it was debilitating like I couldn't function you know I mean I mean literally washing your hands like 30 times a day and but as as things progressed you know, when you're in the most impressionable and influential age, I mean, at 17, 18, like even when I was trying to get help, right. Cause a lot of people were like, well, why didn't the therapist or your parents? It's like, they did everything that they could, but also back then in like the late nineties, early two

thousands, the way that you could communicate around things was so hard. And I, like, I don't even remember exactly how I was being, you know, but like you know like given therapy it's like I couldn't even express like what was going on yeah obviously they knew something was going on with my hands like yeah I washed my hands a lot I'm afraid of germs I'm afraid of all this stuff but like there was no real communication around how for me to be explain what was going on and so things just progressively started to get worse and And, you know, entered into my first like experience with treatment and wilderness when we were in juniors in high school, I went to, God, I went to walk about this program. That was, it was a wilderness program out in Provo, Utah. And then I went to boarding school at this place

called discovery Academy. And then from there, when I got back, that's when I was asked to be on Laguna and then everything ended up dominoing, you know? And again, it was like, I want to, I'll kind of summarize this and put it from like a 50,000 foot view, but from the ages of 18 to 23, that's where, you know, I was arrested a lot. I ended up going to the 12, 13 different treatment centers, the whole Florida to Hawaii and every state in between and was really struggling, you know, and, and addiction not only took me to contemplation, but attempting suicide, which was a very deep and dark place. And I think like looking at that is when you don't see that there's a way out, you know, and especially when society says, if you have, you know, money, notoriety, fame, access, whatever these things are, you know, that,

that life is amazing. It's, it's, uh, that wasn't true obviously. And for me, it was the most debilitating place. I mean, addiction took everything that was very important to me. I mean, I ruined a lot of relationships. I ruined a lot of friendships. I ruined opportunities and it took everything that I had for me that was important. I found myself by myself at my house or my apartment, you know, even, even when I'd have a party or friends over, I'd be in the back room by myself, you know, and it was, it became just this very isolating place. And Ashley can talk about it later. Cause obviously I ended up getting sober and then relapsing. And it wasn't, it's not a thing where it's like used to be life of the party and I'd be go out and have fun. It's like I drank to get ripped and to, to get, to get out of self.

It's not like, Oh, let's go have fun. You know, those, those days are over and addiction is primary. It's chronic. It's progressive. It's fatal if it's untreated. I can look back and just see how progressive this disease was in my life and where it took me. It was really challenging. The beauty of this, and again, going back to the amazing family relationship and the dynamic, is with my parents because there was a moment of clarity when I went through all of this. I'll never forget. I've never seen my dad break down besides when his mother had passed away. And I've been in a lot of therapy sessions with my family before, and, but there was something different about this one.

And I remember looking over at my dad and my mom and they looked at me and, and my dad says, Jason, we don't know what, you know, we don't know what to do anymore. You know, we're just, we're literally at our wits end. Our marriage is struggling, which, and, and the family is suffering. There's a lot of codependency, which Ashley can talk to you about about that but a tear has run down his face and he just looked over and he said Jason mom and I were just like two planks of wood lying in bed waiting for the phone call at your dad and for whatever reason like I said I tried taking my life I had all the rest had all that stuff there was just this it was an aha moment it was a god moment for me where there was this like I'm like I don't care enough about myself but they became my motivation to really again go back into

treatment I'm like I'll do it for them this time and it worked for you know until I started to acquire some sobriety about five six months my life started to get better and then it was something that I needed to obviously take over to be able to maintain and sustain but I was at a place where I didn't have hope anymore and I needed to have something that I could grab onto. And that was them. And I owe them tremendously for so much. And there was obviously some amazing friends and stuff along the way

that were not willing to give up on me. And there's a lot that I'm skipping over. So obviously we can touch on that. I'm trying to just give you the high level. And then, so I think, you know, fast forward, you know, July 23rd, 2010 ended up getting sober, finding a whole new way of life. Life was getting amazing. Removed myself from LA, focused on myself, obviously ended up being an amazing woman.

You guys know, I've been talking about Nutrafol for a long time now and for good reason. I've seen such a difference with my hair, so I always love telling you guys about them. I've been taking Nutrafol for almost a year now, and you guys, I have seen such incredible growth with my hair. And initially, growth was not my goal. I was just trying to kind of grow out some of my layers that I experienced from a lot of breakage in the last couple of years. But now my hair is growing a lot and I'm kind of into it. My hair is the longest it's been in years and it's just making me really happy. Hair has always been really important to me as superficial and stupid as that may be. It just has been since I was little. So having my hair be really healthy again and long and thick and full, it's just given me a little boost of confidence.

Not going to lie. Did you guys know that hair thinning affects nearly half of all women? Well, this holiday season, if you're searching for a thoughtful, unique gift, consider Nutrafol for the special people in your life who may be experiencing hair thinning. It's a meaningful way to show you care about their well-being and their confidence. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over 1 million people. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. So whether you're gifting to yourself or a loved one, give the gift of great hair growth this holiday season. Right now, Nutrafol is offering my listeners $10 off any order. Enjoy free shipping when you subscribe. Go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code HONESTGIFT. Nutrafol.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L

dot com promo code HONESTGIFT. That's Nutrafol.com promo code HONESTGIFT. Okay, you guys know I love this brand and it's Boncharge. Boncharge is a holistic wellness brand with a huge range of evidence based products to optimize your life in every way. Founded on science and inspired by nature, all Boncharge products adopt ancestral ways of living in our modern day world. Their extensive range of premium wellness products help you sleep better, perform better, have more energy, recover faster, balance hormones, reduce inflammation. Guys, the list is endless. From blue light glasses and infrared saunas to red light therapy to EMF management and circadian friendly lighting, Bond Charge products help you naturally address the

issues of our modern day way of life effortlessly and with maximum impact. My personal favorite product from bond charge is their red light face mask. Red light helps with a ton of stuff, including wrinkles and fine lines, sore jaw, eczema. If you get migraines or if you have acne, it's good for scar tissue and wound healing. It's also, I find just really relaxing. It also helps with razor burn and ingrown facial hair. It really does it all. And this face mask is so easy to use, just 10 to 20 minutes each day. You throw it on.

It's easy. You can do it while you're watching TV, while you're making dinner, folding laundry, checking emails. I mean, whatever you want to be doing. And it has both near infrared and red light. So it boosts collagen and elastin production. It's lightweight. It doesn't get hot on your face. And you guys, I've tried all the other competitors and none of them compare. And you guys, Bond Charge is having their coveted end of the year sale where you can save the most dollars

all year. So go to bondcharge.com and use coupon code honest25 to save 25%. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E.com and use coupon code HONEST25 to save 25%. Okay, carb lovers, this one's for you. Let's talk about hero bread. I am a carb girl. I love carbs. I always have and I always will. But since I've been healthier in the last 10 plus years, I haven't been eating as much bread, I would say necessarily. But hero bread is changing that for me. So I'm very excited. My favorite Thanksgiving side, you guys, is stuffing. I make it every year. I love it so much. I'm a mashed potato stuffing girl. And this year I'm going to try to make stuffing with the hero bread. And I'm really excited about that. The holidays are better when you're not feeling guilty or worried about carbs. Let's be honest. So with hero bread, you can indulge in the soft,

fluffy experience. You love guilt free. Their products are delicious and flavorful, but they also have zero to one grams of net carbs, zero grams of sugar, and they're high in fiber. Guys, their bread is so fluffy. It's so amazing. Even their tortillas. I don't know how they do it because most healthy ish bread is not that great. Let's just call a spade a spade, but hero bread has figured it out. I've been making a ton of grilled cheese for my kids. And you guys, I am so excited about their monthly small batches of indulgent favorites like their two gram net carb hero croissants. Excuse me. My family and I love a croissant. Croissants are actually my favorite thing on the planet. So I am

so excited to be trying these and they have other new surprises coming over the holidays. Okay, guys, Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order of their new recipe. So go to hero.co and use code HONEST at checkout. That's HONEST at H-E-R-O dot C-O. Yeah, when did you guys meet? We met, God. 2020. Wait. 2020,? We met, God. 2020. Wait. 2020, man.

Well, 2011? So after you were sober. 2010, 2011. We met before. Oh, yeah. And then we never saw each other again until I had about a year of sobriety. It's like a week before your one year. Right before my one year of sobriety, I asked her to be my girlfriend.

It was very cute I cooked for him and then he said yes because he liked my meal yeah yeah way to win a man over yeah and so from there though you know life was getting good and things were going really well and I ended up obtaining you know four and a half five years of sobriety but unfortunately I went back out and I think the simplest way to put it is everything that I did to get to where I was at, I stopped doing. And so my program completely came off, off track. I always tell people that, you know, consistency and structure creates safety. And that's a big part of somebody that's in

recoveries, a part of their program. And that's what I was, you know, what I was doing. And for me, even until this day and something I was doing back then is when I wake up, I do a morning meditation. I do a prayer. I do a gratitude list. Three things I'm grateful for, not only what, but why that's where a lot of the meat resides within that. Go to meetings. You know, now a big thing that I do is, is I incorporate myself within like Bible studies. I exercise a ton, which is so important. And then, you know, I go about my day and then at the end of the day, I do basically like a reprieve and I identify the areas that I was wrong and that I could do it better. But more importantly, the things that I did right to give myself kudos. I think a lot of

people don't give themselves enough grace, but that way, when I hit my head to the pillow, the next day is a fresh day. And so, but, but looking at all this stuff, you know, with the relapse that happened and and going back into the story I mean there was obviously some underlying things that I you know obviously needed to deal with through that process there was gambling there was you know all these other things that came up body imaging and just like again going back to just shame guilt all of that but I was actually at the first floor at Hogue Hospital while Ashley was giving birth to our daughter on the fourth floor. And so again, is that's just how cunning, baffling and powerful addiction is, is it can take everything from you. And with all the

knowledge that I had and with the amazing resources and access and stuff like that, when you're in the, in the depths of it, dude, it grabs a hold of you and it just wants to take you out. And again, is, is that wasn't even enough. I mean, I ended up coming out of detox. I was sober when I was, saw my daughter be born within, I don't know, four or five days. I was back at it again until Ashley started to get help and do what she needed to do for herself and really implement and set boundaries and work a program for herself because it wasn't about me anymore. It's, it was about her and now a child that was brought into the, to the picture. And, but she basically was intervened on again by people and ended up going

back to the treatment for the last time. Wow. And that this was what your Delilah is. This Delilah is seven. She's seven. And so I'll just finish that story though. Cause I would, I should basically have seven years. There was that day lapse that I had I ended up calling Dr. Drew when I took that Adderall pill after oh so when was that when we were filming oh the hills yeah so the hills came back there's a lot of things that kind of went in and out from an emotional standpoint because I had actually had nine over nine months of sobriety when I came out from treatment that that time when Delilah was yeah you know so when I went back into treatment it came back out at about nine months and that's when that lapse happened. But again, it was, it was the intention behind it, caught it before it got bad. And that was just taking an Adderall pill.

Yeah. And then you called Dr. Drew and what did he say to you? He basically said, just appreciate the honesty, you know, and, but, you know, don't beat yourself up with this and let's get, get back on track. You know, this is, this is a lapse and, you know, it's, it's not something where you ended up having this be a multiple day thing. And so got back on track and, and I'll have five years in December. That's amazing. Yeah. Congrats. Thank you. Ashley, when you met Jason, did it make you nervous at all?

Actually, no, because I, when I met him and he had told me that he was an alcoholic, he had explained to me that that was like the most important thing to me. I mean, to him, he said that God was number one and then his sobriety. And if he didn't have his sobriety, he'd have nothing. He wouldn't have me. He wouldn't have his family, nobody. So that was really, really important to him. I don't think I understood the effects of the disease of addiction. I grew up in an Italian family. Drinking for me was very casual at a very young age. It was more of an acquired taste, like a cultural thing instead of it being like we're drinking to get drunk. It's like we're drinking because we're having pasta.

Yeah, it's a little different. So I never really grew up around the idea of addiction at all. I was very naive to even understanding it was a disease. I thought it was actually a choice, which is now I know is not. So when he had told me that, I'm like, okay, yeah, great. But you're sober now, so you're going to be fine. And I always just thought he would be sober. So I think when the shoe dropped as many times as it did, I was in such a place of disbelief and I was so manipulated by the disease because it's not like Jason was sitting there wanting to manipulate me or hurt me or anything. It's like the disease of addiction is so powerful that it's like the disease is taking over their

body. I always said it's like a demon was taking over his body and it didn't matter about the family. It didn't matter about anything. It was like the disease needed to be fed and he was going to do whatever he could to manipulate me to do whatever he could to get what he needed to get. It's like a survival gene. Right. Right. That makes sense. How did you find the strength to stay with him, especially when Delilah is born and he's not even there. I mean, how did you get through that? So crazy, but I honestly truly believe that because I knew Jason when he was sober, I knew his heart and what a wonderful man that he was. And I was yearning so much to get that person back.

And I think that that's the difference of my story. Whereas a lot of other people that I've heard before that have been in relationships or marriages, you know, the disease of addiction had always been in their relationship and they just got to the point where the partner never wanted to get help or anything like that. And with him, it's like, I knew who he was when he was sober and this was not him. And I wanted that person back so bad. So I just kept holding on to hope that one day I was going to get him back. And that's what kept me hanging on. And even though, you know, it was so hard. I think a lot of times people don't realize like besides the addict being sick, when you're surrounded by somebody that is so toxic, it can make you so sick yourself. Like I lost everything that I thought I knew. I didn't even know what color

I liked. I didn't know what, you what color I liked. I didn't know what, you know what I mean? I didn't know what I liked to do, hobbies, recreation. It was like I isolated and I became like addicted to his addiction. So instead of me focusing on myself, I'm checking pill bottles and smelling things. And like, I became like psychotic in my brain and thinking that, oh, he must be lying, right? Is he doing this? It's like your brain manipulates you to thinking, okay, if he tells me he's okay, he's okay. But then you're seeing things. You just, you can't feel your gut anymore. Like your gut instinct is completely dissolved because you don't know reality from what's real and what's not real. So I think just holding onto that hope was so important for me. And then honestly, I feel like the reason why

I actually finally reached out and got help is because of Delilah. Like, I think I probably could have lived with the addict the rest of my life being sick. And I probably would have, I probably would have been the one to die, to be honest, because I was so miserable. And that's how sad it is. Cause I think being surrounded by that for so long, losing myself, I don't think I even realized how bad it was until I had like a wake up. It's almost like a smack, like, okay, your reality shifted. Now you got to focus on something else. And like, that was my focus. I couldn't focus on the addict anymore. Right. I always say, just, I think it's important for people to understand is wherever there's an

alcoholic or an addict, there's a codependent. And sometimes they're just as sick, if not sick. Wow. Yeah. So it's, it's, that's why they call it the family disease. Right. And so what boundaries did you set when Delilah was born? What did you say to Jason? I mean, this is the thing with boundaries is that you have to actually learn real boundaries, not just saying stuff and then moving them. Yeah. Yeah. Moving the goalposts. Yes. I've done that a lot in my life. Now as a parent, it's like a whole nother thing of boundaries. But I ended up starting to go to Al-Anon after Jason went to treatment. But the biggest thing for me was actually just reaching out and surrendering and asking for help because I think I thought I could do everything that I

could to save him. I was so scared about what people would think if he relapsed. It was such a shame thing. Even for both of us, he worked in the treatment space and people didn't know he had relapsed. It was our income. That was like the scariest part too, is like you bring up some of these things is like before when we'd all used to hang out and party was like eight out of 10 times, you know, I'd get in trouble or get arrested or something would happen. This time around, nobody knew. Like that was besides Ashley, like I'm working with doctors, I'm working with like clinicians, therapists, psychiatrists, and I was able to hide it. I got so good at hiding it. Wow. That people couldn't even tell. And that's, that's where it was like,

became like looking back. I'm like, God. And I was using a lot, a lot like that's like, so my body, my tolerance was gotten so high. That's what was really getting scary. But I just wanted to throw that in. Cause it was way different first versus second. I'm curious. And I'm sure a lot of listeners will be too. What are some signs to tell if someone is an addict? Because like you said, they get into this pattern of lying, it's manipulation. So how do you know if you're on the other end of it, if potentially someone is back using, I'll have you answer that. And I'll say what you shouldn't do, know if you're on the other end of it, if potentially someone is back using? I'll have you answer that and I'll say what you shouldn't do, like things you shouldn't do. I mean, I think the biggest thing is you'll see change in behavior, right? Isolation. I mean,

depending on the age demographic and whether it's your teenage kid to your spouse, to your parent, I mean, but also the people that they surround themselves with, just different routines that they're doing things. If there's, they loved doing certain things and they stopped doing them, whether they have like, you know, activities or whether they're going to the gym often, whether they were playing in a, playing golf a lot. I mean, if there's things that were a part of their life that are not becoming a part of their life anymore, those are signs and symptoms to look out for. Again, the isolation. Yeah. I mean, those are. Isolation, even just like being home and then being in the other room, not wanting to be with

the family sort of thing. Yeah. Not wanting to connect, exactly. Yeah. Not wanting to connect. Yeah. Okay. And I think the biggest thing for me that I wish I could have gone back and not done is that when Jason would relapse and then he'd have these benders, he would sleep the whole entire next couple of days. Yeah. And he'd have to be out of work. So I'd have to text his boss and be like, oh, he has the flu. You know, I'd have to lie for him. And that was something that should have been, I should not have done, you know, I should have let him fall.

But instead I was so worried about the repercussions of if he were not to show up at work or people were to know it's like, that's the sickness that I was playing into. That's what codependency is. It's like, I'm sitting there signing off on his behaviors to make them okay. And that's wrong. And so did you even lie to your family and all of your friends? Everybody. Everybody. Everybody. Like the whole time. So what did they say when you told them what was going on? So it got to the point where I was really pregnant. With Delilah. With Delilah. Your first. Yes. And it was getting to the point where I was really pregnant. With Delilah. With Delilah.

Your first. Yes. And it was getting to the point where I was going to have her soon. And I was freaking out because I thought, oh my God, like I'm going to have a baby. And my husband is like, he might be blocked out one day. I need to have a spouse that's going to be supportive. So I had to call my mom. And she kind of had an inkling because she

can tell me not being as happy or stuff like that. So I think she kind of had an inkling of what was going on. And my mom has always been extremely supportive. She loves Jason and she, you know, just wants the best for him and for us. And so she came down and helped me with Delilah. And I actually had reached out to one of his friends that he had worked with and was like, I have to get him. We have to get him into detox. Like, I am not having this baby alone. And I was like angry, you know, so angry at this point. And I knew the baby was going to come really soon.

And so we like checked him in. We just like checked him in. And then we called his parents on the drive after dropping him off. And we're like, we checked Jason into detox. And we're like, what are you talking about? I'm like, well, it's a problem. And I'm not having this baby alone. Yeah. It was really, really hard. That conversation was really hard to have. Sure. And then I went into labor. My water broke when I was at the house, I remember, with my mom. And it was such a weird situation because I remember calling and trying to get him out of detox. And

I'd explained to them, like, I'm having a baby in a couple of days. If I have this baby, you have to get him out of detox. I need him to be there for the birth. Like, I cannot have this baby by myself. And so I remember calling and they're like, I remember I get into triage. I check in after my water broke. And the guy on the phone, of course, it's a man, says, do you think he could just sleep a little bit longer? He really needs to detox for a little longer. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I'm having a baby. I'm in triage. Get his ass up here right now. Like, I was so pissed. I couldn't believe this guy was serious. Like, you know, could you just give him a few hours? I'm like, no, honey, we can't give him

a few hours. It's happening. So we pulled him out and yeah, we had the baby. And like, I'm, I'm grateful in that moment that he was at least coherent when I had the baby, but it was, he had relapsed within a couple of weeks when I had had Delilah because he didn't arrest the disease. Like we pulled him out and then he didn't go to treatment after that. And it was just kind of back to. Oh, so he didn't. Okay. So you didn't go back to treatment then once Delilah was born, you were home. Got it. Correct. And that's a problem. So I didn't actively arrest the disease and get stabilized then I was in there for like three or four days. No, two or three days. Yeah. Maybe two, three, two, three days. So it's basically you just slept pretty much. And so

I wasn't able to like get into routine and do a program again. And so went back to my old ways, right? And so, yeah, that's what happens. Like what would have been beneficial is go up, watch her be born and then come back and check in. Right. But that wasn't the case. Was that the hardest moment for you both or what was? Oh my gosh, there's so many hard moments.

I mean, I feel like, I think probably one of the hardest, most vivid moments that I remember is when I was very, very pregnant with Delilah. And this was kind of like when you see yourself and you're like stepping back from your own body and you're watching your life. Out of body experience. Yes. And I always used to say to myself, like, this isn't my life. Like God did not, like, I don't not, I was so angry with God. Like I had no relationship with God during a lot of this because I had lost my dad. He had relapsed. It was just like, my life was crumbling. I'm like, this isn't my life. Like I deserve so much better. I'm a good person. I'm a good this, what the hell is going on? And he, I remember he walked in and he looked at me and he's like,

you're like really pregnant. I'm like, yeah. And he started tearing up because he didn't remember. Like he hadn't remembered the whole time of me being pregnant. It was so sad. And he's like, wow, you're like going to have a baby soon. And I'm like, yeah, I was like nine months pregnant. I remember. And he just kind of looked at me like really sad. And that was really, really hard because it's very sad when you know the person that you love so much is hurting so much yeah and they're just I didn't have the tools yeah oh that breaks my heart yeah I think like this listening to all this like even just going back right like I mean I've shared my story a lot but it's just like obviously in an intimate setting with somebody

I've known for a long time obviously been married married for forever. It's sad to see, you know, just everything that's transpired, you know? And, and again, is I also have learned from this whole process because your greatest deficits become your greatest assets. And I, and I know that everything that we went through, but it's, it's hard to hear all this, obviously. Right. I mean, especially when I I'm so present and I'm with my kids now, which I'm so grateful for, but it's just like, that's what this thing can do to you. And like, it's, you know, having to relive that stuff. It's not, it's not fun. I think it's important to talk about it because

by expressing vulnerability, it creates humility and there's millions of people that are going through this. And so I think it's, it's important to talk about it, but you know, it's, it's like, I mean, I missed Delilah crawling, you know, and I went back in treatment. I mean, I missed, you know, I mean, I was, yeah, I was there for the pregnancy. It's like, there's a big difference between physically being there and mentally being there. And so seeing and just, and, and talking about all this stuff, I mean, there was a lot of, a lot of hard times, you know, and, and again, it's like, it was the relapse that I'd had after having, you know, getting sober for four and a half years, you know, that window from July 23rd, 2010 to yeah, four and a half, five years later. And then looking at relapse lasted for how many, how long did it go for?

Probably two and a half years. Oh, a long time. I didn't realize it was that long. A long time. I think it was longer than that, to be honest with you. Because I don't think you had five years before. Did you know the whole time too? Or did you lie about it a lot in the beginning? I knew about it. But you knew. But

he lied to me about it. I mean, I knew in my gut, like this man is definitely drinking. Like there's alcohol in the garage hiding and he'd say, it's Chad, the neighbors. I'm like, okay, Chad's coming over to have his whiskey in our garage. Right. And then I find drugs in the safe, like a whole thing of milk and like Adderall, like it was not, the Adderall thing was horrible. But you wouldn't smell alcohol on him. Oh yeah. Oh you would. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Yeah. I mean, even to the point when he was, the scariest thing was like, I didn't know if I was, I had to go to work. So I'd leave him at home and I'd think, oh my God, is he gonna be dead when I get home? Like I'd have to check him, make sure he's breathing before I left.

And I think that's another important facet, right? Is like, okay, we're talking about me and everything that I went through and the things that I had, you know, and I was able to go to treatment, go get help again and all that. On the flip side, it's like Ashley had to witness all of this. She had, I mean, there was multiple days and nights where she'd put her head on my chest to see if I was still alive or still breathing, you know, this, the verbal altercations, this, all the different stuff. And like the family, it's like, I go away and get the help I need, but she was left her own devices. Now with a newborn, it's like, Hey, go see a therapist.

And like, you know, good luck, you know, go to Al-Anon. It's like the end of the day, it's like, she really needed the time to be able to focus on herself as well. And so I think that's something bringing up and just the importance behind it is, is how neglected it like you were in that situation. And so again, it's bringing light to that is it's a lot, you know, she went through a ton. And so it's important that individuals that are in that situation really do get the help that they need because I mean, she was a pivotal part of me getting the help that I needed, but it, it, it goes to show now looking back and, and I mean, she was a pivotal part of me getting the help that I needed. But it goes to show now looking back. And, I mean, we've done so much work this last five years. I mean, just the amount of therapy and counseling and the work that we've done together.

I mean, church and just, I mean, just really, really deep conversations. Because anything worth having is not easy. It was really hard to go through a lot of those things. But, again, I literally don't think there's, and I don't, God, please don't challenge us with any other things like that. But I literally don't think there's anything that we haven't walked through. I mean, from some of the most monumental things that patriarchs of your family dying to, you know, I mean, all this stuff we just explained. I mean, there's so much that we've gone through that I really believe it's a lot of us, this opportunity to really be connected and stronger and, and to, to share with people, you know,

that there is a way out, uh, there is a solution and that there's, there's a much better life on the other, the other end. And that's, that's the thing I think for me, like when I look at my recovery journey and like, it's crazy, like all this is such a, like, there's so much that happened. It's like such a fricking blur. Like there's so much that happened in such a short amount of time. Like that. It's like literally as like a mapping things out.

And like, as I've, you know, the years have gone by and just looking, it's like, I'll remember stuff that I haven't remembered forever. You know, I'm like, Oh my God, where did this even go? Or how did this, you know, where'd the time go? Or where, when did this come up? That's why I think you guys both sharing your story is incredible because it gives so many people hope. The other thing that gave me a lot of hope, Jason was we went to lunch recently and I had said to you that I always thought addicts, in order to change and get help, they needed to want it themselves. And you actually said that's an old school way of thinking. And that, you know, kind of blew my mind. And so I want you to explain that because I think it'll also give a lot of listeners a lot of hope too. Well, and that's, so I mean, the landscape, first of all, the landscape has changed,

right? Versus when we were drinking and using and stuff like that, it was, that it was there was very very very very rare that somebody would take something it would kill them instantly yeah so i think like when you look at fentanyl and you look at all the you know just the the types of drugs that are out there today the landscape has changed so i think the the landscape has changed so much this day and age i mean just in regards to you know when when somebody is struggling i think it's really important to understand that it's not like it was 15, 20 years ago. I mean, fentanyl is out there now and it just, people that aren't even addicts can die instantly, right? So like, you know, having to hit a bottom or, or, you know, things like that to me is, is a little outdated. I think the goal really needs to be is how do we help somebody stop

digging? You know what I mean? And give them, give them the tools and the resources to, to, to be able to understand like there is a way out of this. And like when I connect with people, what I try to do is try to inform them with the best education that I possibly can to have them make the most educated choice and or decision, right? And so when you look at, I mean, for me, right? Like my whole story with my parents is even back then, like I didn't have enough motivation and to want to do it myself. Right. I mean, and I had to grab onto that for, for, for me. And that's what worked at that time. And again, it's different strokes for different folks, but I think it's, people need to really understand. I mean, we're, we're dealing with the leading cause of death in America for 50 year old individuals and younger, right? I mean,

it's something to really take a look at and like, dude, this is, this is obviously serious. And the fact that the average age of first time use in America today is 11 and a half years old. Like that's, that's alarming. You know, it's, that's the average parent. It's that's, that's a, it's alarming. And so again, is, is that's the average. So I mean, kids are experimenting seven, eight, nine years old. And so that blows my mind. But I think when we look at all this, like the real question we need to ask ourselves is like, you know, even when they talk about fentanyl, it's like, there's so much fentanyl here and there's this fentanyl crisis, which, which there is not about all the fentanyl

that's here is why is the demand so high? Yeah. Right. Right. I mean, because if people were wanting to use it, it wouldn't be here. Yeah. And so I think that's, again, is something to be able to look at. And I know I've, I've kind of, you kind of gone down a rabbit hole with your question, but I think it's just

important to look at all of those things that we're facing as a society. I mean, it's alarming. 46 million people struggle with this. I know. It really is. Sorry, I was just going to say, and if you think about it, if 46 million people struggle with it, I always say there's like one addict. But think about all the people that surround the addict. Now all these people are not getting help, not taking care of themselves. There's no wonder why we have a mental health crisis in the world and everybody has dealt with, think about that. You have a tornado, you have all these people that the addict has wrecked, manipulated, hurt. Then you have these people thinking that they're the problem or manipulated in certain aspects and no one's getting help because nobody thinks they're the problem.

Right. Really, we're all the problem. We're all the problem. That's what Kristen opened up with. Yeah, exactly. 46 million that are out there. And then you got, there's probably 150 million that are affected. Yeah, 100%.

Every single person knows somebody that is struggling with addiction for sure. But I think we're in, I think still the old mentality of it is like, it's not my problem. It's the addict's problem. And it's like, no, it's a family disease or it's a relational disease. It's all of our problems, you know, because if, if somebody's sick and, and I'm not doing my best part to take care of myself, like the addict. Well, you're enabling. Exactly.

I'm either enabling or I'm being a doormat. Yeah. And that's not healthy for me in any aspect. I mean, that's why I had to go to Al-Anon. If I didn't, I would have been a disaster. Absolutely. Yeah. And understandably so. Yeah. Business owners, let's talk about Shopify. So I launched on Common James with Shopify seven years ago. And you guys, today, seven years later, I still use Shopify. And I just love that they've been able to grow and scale with us. There is nothing that they can't do.

And any other business owner in retail knows Q4, the Super Bowl of retail. Right now, I am checking my Shopify app a thousand times a day. I will still, even seven years later, love to see the sales. They make the Black Friday Cyber Monday so easy because it's its own little section in the Shopify app. So you can just go right there and see in real time what's going on. Another thing that they have on their app that I love is you can actually see how many people are on your website and where they're coming from. That for me as a business owner is just such a dream come true. And they're not only great for e-com, but they're also great for opening up new stores. And no matter how many stores you have, they can grow and scale with you. So I can separate

all of these things in my app if I want to. I can see the total for the company or I can break it up by e-com or by each store. It's just an incredibly user-friendly app. So I can't say enough good stuff about Shopify. So guys, if you want to upgrade your business and get the same checkout I use with Shopify, sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash Cavallari, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash Cavallari to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash Cavallari. I want to talk to you guys about a brand that I know you know and love, and that is Gatorade. Specifically, I want to talk to you guys about Gatorade Hydration Booster. You guys know that I absolutely love electrolytes and I drink them every single day. Well,

Hydration Booster contains electrolyte levels suitable for all day, always on hydration, so you can enjoy Gatorade Hydration Booster throughout the entire day. Advanced blend of electrolytes from watermelon, sea salt, and other sodium and potassium salts. This product contains 30 calories and 5 grams of sugar versus Liquid IV, which contains 45 calories and 11 grams of sugar. They're packed with essential vitamins backed by Gatorade's superior science experts. They have no artificial flavors, sweeteners, or added color, which you guys know I absolutely love. They help keep you at your best, no matter what the day throws your way. This product is for anyone with a lot on their to-do list. Electrolytes are not just

for athletes, you guys. I love drinking electrolytes when I'm working out, if I'm going in the sauna, if you're feeling a little run down, which maybe you guys can hear it in my voice right now, but I am. I love that the electrolytes in Gatorade Hydration Booster come from recognizable sources like watermelon juice and sea salt. That is right up my alley. If you guys have not gotten on the electrolyte bandwagon, I'm telling you, once you start, you will never go back. So definitely check out Gatorade Hydration Booster. Put your water to work with Gatorade Hydration Booster. You can use code BOOST20 on Gatorade.com to try it yourself for 20% off. Okay, let's talk about Skims, you guys.

I love the holidays, but shopping for everyone on my list can be a little overwhelming sometimes. So when I saw that Skims launched their holiday shop, I finally started to get into the spirit. It's the best destination for all of my gifts. There's even a few pieces for myself that I've been eyeing. Everyone in my family is getting Skims for the holidays. I picked up my favorite soft lounge sleep set from the Skims holiday shop and I'm obsessed. These new seasonal colors are perfect for the holidays. I love wearing this around the house, cuddled up with a cup of tea. I'm going to be buying this for all of my girlfriends just because it is so comfortable. And when cup of tea. I'm going to be buying this for all of my girlfriends

just because it is so comfortable. And when I'm home, I'm all about comfort. Shop Skims Holiday Shop at Skims.com. Available in styles for women, men, kids, and even pets. If you haven't yet, be sure to let them know that I sent you. So guys, after you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select my show. Let's be honest in the dropdown menu that follows. I appreciate it. For people who do have an addict

in their life and they want to get them help, what are the steps to take? How do you start that process? I would turn to you in regards to from the, from the flip side and obviously share my opinion. I think the most important thing is your secrets make you sick. So do not lie about what's going on in your relationship or in your house because that's going to keep the disease alive longer than you want it to. Reach out to a professional. Do not be the addict's psychiatrist or therapist or the person that's in charge of their pills. Like do not because that puts a whole nother pressure on yourself. Do not poke the bear. Like the most important thing I feel like is reach out for professional help and guidance instead of being the police.

Okay. Yeah. I think the main things, right. If somebody's struggling, you know, what I tell people is, is first of all, acknowledge what they're going through. It's not easy. And then educate yourself. Get informed about what's going on. Understand what addiction is. Again, addiction is a disease. It is primary, chronic, and progressive, and it's fatal if it's untreated. So understand what you are dealing with.

Consult with professionals and seek guidance on what the best next indicated steps are. Addiction and mental health, eating disorder, gambling addictions. It's not a one size fits all model, right? There's no cookie cutter to this. And so I think again, is, is as time has gone on, these diseases have progressed in many ways, shapes, and forms. And so it's really important to get the appropriate help for what that person's struggling with. You know, you can call it same painting, different colors. They all kind of intertwine in some way, shape, or form, but it's important to be able to attack what you're doing with, with the best knowledge in that area. And then from there, you know, again, is I think one

of the best things is if you have somebody that's struggling is get plugged into a program, you know, Al-Anon is always a great option and always a great resource and, and allow the professionals like Ashley was saying, allow the professionals to be the professionals, right? It's like, you got to stay in your lane. Mom and dad need to be mom and dad. They're not the case manager. They're not the therapist. They're not the psychologist. They're not the doctor, right? So it's like, it's like if I'm going to, you know, if I'm having a house built and I'm not a contractor, I'm not going to try to tell the contractor how to build the house. Right. So, and that's where I think people, they, that's where codependency comes into play is, is they

think they have power over somebody to change somebody. And at the end of the day, it's really important to understand that nobody has the power to change anybody, but you have the power to change somebody through influence. And that's why you taking care of yourself by setting those boundaries is going to allow somebody to get help. It's a struggle. And I think for those that are out there that struggle with addiction, I mean, on my side, the biggest indicators for me that helped me was just really getting honest. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. And truly though, like getting open and honest with where I'm at and talking to somebody and really understanding like, Hey, look, and I ask yourself the question like, Hey, is this really adding or subtracting to my life? Is this really something that is, is an asset or is this really hindering and causing harm? And you know, that deep down in

your gut. And then from there, you know, reach out to somebody and say, Hey, look, I'm not okay. And I need, and I need help. And there's so many people out there. There's millions of people in recovery. You know what I mean? There's, there's so many people that are out there that are in recovery that are willing to help. And, and again, is, is whether you have money, you don't have money, you have insurance, you don't have insurance or there is solutions. There's a lot of people out there, whether it's organizations, whether it's, you know, the 501 C threes, there's government run programs. I mean, we have a list of, I think, I don't know how many hundreds of Medicaid, Medi-Cal, Medicaid, Medi-Cal facilities that are

around in every state. And so there is a way out, you know, and the beautiful thing is, is that you can really be able to find a life that's worth living again. You know, like I said, it robbed me of everything that I'd had. And, and today I have purpose. I have passion. I love waking up. I love, like I can look in the mirror and actually say, like, I'm a good person today. And, and, and I know that, and it was years of, of not feeling that way. And again, it's, it's like, I actually haven't, like, I love, I love the life I have today, you know? And, and again, it's, it's, it took a lot of, a lot of work. And I mean, I really should not be here. I really should not be, but by the grace of God that I am.

And, and I'm so grateful that I have that opportunity to, to be able to be here and just, and I appreciate us even just having this conversation. Cause I think it's, it's so important. It's so important. It means a lot to me. And I think there's a couple other things that this has even taught me, right? Like when I was sharing with you when I was younger about how I didn't know how to communicate, right? Like, I mean, I didn't know how, like my parents were there at amazing parents and stuff, but they just didn't have the tools or the resources to connect

or talk to me. Therapist even, it was kind of like, yeah, we had these surface levels conversations. Hey, you take this medication. And through this journey, what this has really allotted me, the opportunity, again, going back to pre-genetic disposition with my children, there's a 50-50 chance that they got this thing. And so what I'm doing at an earlier stage in my life now is to be able to form a connection and communication with my kids. And so every single night, and I've done this for years now, at first it was just a gratitude list with Delilah and then we'd pray at night.

But even at seven years old, to develop trust, a sense of safety and connectivity, I ask her four questions. I say, Hey, Delilah, what was good today? And I, she answers and I answer back and I say, Hey, Delilah, what could you improved upon today? She answers. I answer, Delilah, what are you grateful for today? She answers.

I answer. And then the same thing goes with the goal. You know, what's your goal for tomorrow? What that does though, is just in this last six months of, it was, like I said, years before it was always gratitude and we implemented this new format. She's starting to come with me when, what could I have done better? I was mean to this person. This person was mean to me. And so as silly as that may seem now, I'm developing for a couple of years down the road, potentially if, you know, hopefully a little bit later that if stuff really starts to arise, she knows she has a safe place to be able to come to. And so I see the power in that now. And because that was, I think if I look back, like one of the biggest missing links is even though I had physically present and supportive people around me, I was not able to communicate. And so to have that safe haven for her to be able to do it. And I'll do the same thing with Wyatt. I'll do the same thing with Mr. Bun in the oven, whatever it is. But those are the things and the tools and

the resources that I've learned through this process that I'm beyond grateful for to have. That's the joy for me. You know what I mean? And I'll be the first person in my family in the last three generations that I know of that's raising their kids not under the influence. So I'm breaking the cycle. And again, I'm not against people that can enjoy themselves either. So to flip the script, Ashley is a normie.

She can drink. A normie? Yeah, freaking normies. Whatever normie is. Normie can have a glass of wine with her pasta. yeah freaking normies whatever normie is but it's like because it's like i still and i still surround like i have friends and stuff to drink and and and do that stuff but obviously there was a time in my life where i needed to remove myself from from that and and again it's even still to this day i mean there's we'll go to something i'm like hey babe this this

i ain't feeling it we need to go yeah. It's very seldom that that will happen. It does not happen often anymore. But again, I think it's for those that are out there. And whether you think you're struggling with addiction or alcoholism, again, just ask yourself that question. Is this really adding or subtracting to my life? Yeah, I love that. Well, as our kids are getting older now, and they will probably start experimenting with some stuff. How can we tell as parents, if it is just kids experimenting, having some fun, or if it's something that we really should be paying attention to? So I'm going to answer this one real quick. Okay. So I always thought growing up, it's so funny. It's like when, you know, I was always like, Oh, I'm going to be the fun dad. You know, this is going to be, I could see when I'm like, how do, how do parents how do parents so you know why don't they let their kids do stuff

and but now as i've gotten older obviously learned the hard way but also just understanding the statistic of this again so if you've had any pre-genetic disposition with somebody that struggles with substance abuse in your family there's a probability that it's within there and again is you don't just have to have the pre-genetic disposition there's environmental there's you know environmental, there's factors that also can play into a lot of this. But if you do not drink or use by the age of 21, there's a 90% chance you will never struggle with addiction.

90? 90%. Wow. So flipping the script, why my children are under my roof. Our roof? I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

Under our roof. It's okay. I've done it to you a million times. What? I've done it to you a million times. Yeah, it's okay.

My daughter? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But all jokes aside is there's going to be, again, there's going to be a no tolerance.

But people are talking about like, well, it's going to cause rebellion. I'll deal with it as it comes. Yeah. But knowing that statistic now, and trust me, I will have the communication and I will have the discussions with my kids when it's age appropriate. And Delilah, it's going to be within a few years when that happens. But I'm going to, again, is going to be able to share my story at age appropriate level.

I'm not going to share everything that I've gone through, but explain what this does and what it's done to our family and how it can really affect you. And again, my job is to inform and provide the best education so they can make an educated decision. You know what I mean? And so, but it's my job, why my kids, I'm not supposed to be their friends right now. I'm supposed to coach them right now. Well, you know, I'm supposed to, to, to be able to help mentor them through this process and allow them to be able to make those decisions as they get older. So for me is, is, it's why take that chance? If we know that there's, especially with what the world's, I mean, what, I mean, if you, what, how many people live in the United States,

330 million, I think something around there. But if you look at that, I mean, but if you look at that and you look at the number that we know, and that's, we don't even know, it's probably more than that, that struggle. I mean, it's, it's a high probability that somebody is going to struggle. Right. And so I think everybody should know that, you know, and again, it's not, I'm not, I'm not this, you know, anti-person. It's just, it's for me, it's knowing what I know. I want to set our kids up for the best success. And I just know that there's a lot of kids out there that are, that are struggling and looking to feel and be a part of, like, I really think in today's age, we're dealing with an identity crisis. I feel like people don't have purpose. They don't have passion and they're not sure where they want to go. And they look to substances to feel a part of and connect. Well, that was me.

But on the flip side, it was you and me both. I mean, that's what it was forever. But did you know what the longest living study is at Harvard? Do you know what it's around? What, alcohol? No, it's around happiness. And do you know what the number one form of happiness is? Connection. Human connection. Yeah. And like, I think we all yearn and strive for that. And because like,

even when I was drinking and what did I want to do? I wanted to be connected. Exactly. Just didn't really know how to maybe that was why I was never even thought about that, but really it's like when I was drinking, I just wanted to be connected and I wanted to be able to drink a lot so I could be acknowledged as life of the party. Exactly. Yeah. We were similar in that regard. Yeah, we were. Okay. Well then I have another question for you is, okay. So I will say even in high school, you know, when you were dealing with your issues, you always wanted a connection. So my question is what about the narcissist and the psychopaths, for example?

And if you guys haven't read The Psychopath Test, that's a phenomenal book if you have anyone in your life who even remotely resembles that. But those people have no empathy. They don't really want to connect. So if you have an addict who's a narcissist, let's say, is the probability of them getting sober much lower because of that? Like, do you have to want that connection with people to get sober? That's such a deep question, Kristen. Sorry. I mean, like phone a friend. Can I call the doctor? Call a doctor. I mean, that's a, that's a, I mean, that's a very complex question. And again, I want to be able to stay in my lane with this. I think that's a fantastic question, but I don't have like from a a clinical perspective

and a clinical background i don't know enough to be able to tell you exactly like what that looks like but i think i think for me like anybody has the opportunity to achieve you know complete abstinence of drugs and alcohol and again is is that's imperative for you to be able to deal with the underlying issue whether it's narcissism whether it's mania whether it's depression whether it's anxiety whatever it is you gotta again actively arrest the disease to be able to deal with the underlying issue, whether it's narcissism, whether it's mania, whether it's depression, whether it's anxiety, whatever it is, you got to again, actively arrest the disease to be able to deal with the underlying issues. You need to understand drugs and alcohol are not the problem. That is the solution. The underlying issues is, is me, the drugs and alcohol were the things I turned to, to get, to feel relief. Right. And so I think when you look at that, I think there's, there's people that I think anybody can improve.

I'll tell you that much. I think anybody can improve. I'll tell you that much. I think, again, is whether, however severe or whatever it is that they're dealing with. I know that the brain has got a ton of elasticity and has the ability to change. But I mean, that's a complex question that you have there. And again, that's why I tell people it's so important you have to work a program for anybody, whether you're dealing with severe mental health issues or whatever the underlying pieces may be, because there's a big difference between being abstinence from drugs and alcohol versus living a life in recovery. And what I mean by that is you can be abstinence from drugs and alcohol, but still have the

behaviors and the mannerisms of an alcoholic. Oh, interesting. Right. That makes sense. So it's like, and that's where you hear people like they're, they're white knock. Well, another white knuckling it white knuckling. What's the other fricking term that people dry drunk. You know what I mean? You hear those. I've never heard that one. Isn't Cali sober, no alcohol, but you can smoke weed. Yeah. Is that marijuana is a whole another subject. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Come back for that. That'll be another episode. Yeah. Yeah. We come back to that one. Well, that's, I'll just put it out there is again it's it's just what i've learned in my knowledge around it is just with the potency of marijuana nowadays people always think it's so harmless the thc components are so high that your body can't synthesize it which puts people into psychosis that they're not coming out of

and so it's like now these people are living in psychosis and having all different kinds of issues oh my god marijuana it's like because it's, different than it was like when we were growing up, it's at a hundred percent concentrate. It's so high now. So again, there's a whole nother level with that. And again, I'm not, I just, I learned from doctors and I share the information that they share with me, but they can talk at a much deeper level. But again, as I've seen a lot of kids, kids that come in that, that have, that have been in psychosis from marijuana, that it's taken six months to a year to come out of. And sometimes they haven't come out of it at all. Oh my God.

And if you have, what did you say? A history of schizophrenia in your family, it can. Yeah. So if you have, it like activates it. If you can, if you have a history of schizophrenia or you have a history of like severe mental health issues like psilocybin. Oh yeah. That's a hot topic right now.

Psilocybin, marijuana, those can trigger and actually make it permanent. Put you in there permanently. I mean, if that's not reason enough to not do any of this stuff, you know. Yeah. It's a different world now, unfortunately for these kids, or maybe fortunately, you know, depending on how you look at it. Since it is the holiday season right now, what are tips or advice that you guys can give people going through this of how to stay sober, how you can be supportive for the people in your life, just everything right now. When it comes to holidays, you know, there, there can be very triggering moments, whether it's you're spending time with family, certain friends, again, look, if you're early in this,

you know, you got to put your sobriety at the number one priority. And if it's something that you shouldn't be around at that time, maybe look at not going to this time. If it's something that you really feel like you need to be a part of, bring somebody that can be supportive with you. You know, I mean, there was things in early sobriety that we went to that, that I had Ashley as my support, or even brought a couple of people that were in recovery with me that were supportive, but also have an exit strategy, right? So if you're, if you're in an uncomfortable environment, it's sometimes you say you go to Thanksgiving dinner or you go to Christmas, it's a 50, 50. Sometimes it's a great gathering and sometimes it gets crazy. Literally have an exit strategy where it's like, you know, you don't have to make it some big, loud thing. You can come up with the code word. We used to have that when we were filming. Oh, smart. Yeah. Hot dog. You know, it's like, we're out of here. So whatever that code word may be, but get yourself in a position where you can get out. And then the other thing is have people on standby, you know, like, especially if you're going to go to something or be around where it could be triggering. And again, it's not like it's going to, if it doesn't even want to make

you drink, but just cause the stress, anxiety, have a couple people on speed dial that you can connect with and just be able to be open. I think the biggest thing that people can do is, is, is communicate. Yeah. Having that community of people. I was just going to say, make sure that you're going to more meetings that you would think you would need to go to. So there's a lot of Al-Anon meetings that are available through Zoom. There's some that are locally in the area. If you just go to al-anon.com, it will show you all the kinds of meetings. So I think that that's really important if you have somebody that's in the family that's an alcoholic or someone that's struggling and you're nervous about them coming. Also, I think just being kind about their addiction and empathetic and understanding always have other kinds of options. If you're normally a

big drinking family of somebody that's newly sober coming into the family environment, I think it's really important to maybe not have alcohol at that one event. Yeah. Not because you're trying to be codependent, but it's supportive. Exactly. You know, you're not trying to, you know. Okay. I love that. And then what's next for you guys and where can everybody find you too? Yeah. To plug all your stuff. Go ahead, sweetheart. Okay. Well, just on Instagram at Ashley Waller. And I actually try and answer, like if you have a question or you have somebody that's struggling, I try and answer all my DMs. So if you have a specific question, DM me and I'll try

and do my best to answer you. That's very cool that you do that. You don't do that, Jason? Come on, you don't have enough on your plate. He hasn't looked at my messages for the last week. All my GIFs and memes. He doesn't even respond to text messages, let alone a DM. Come on, man.

His assistant does for me. Jeez, tough crowd. Tough crowd. Tough crowd. What's the question? Well, just, so where can people find you and just what's next for you guys? What do you guys have coming up?

People can find us, yeah, Instagram. Yeah. Jason Waller. I try to get back to you. Yeah, right. I do, you know. Ashley's better than me at that. And then, no, we actually, I mean,

obviously I've been working with Daniel and Dr. Amen for the last couple of years with change your brain, which has been incredible. Actually been working with sober sure, which is another incredible product, which is the first ever transdermal alcohol monitoring detection band. Oh my gosh. You told me about this like a year ago. So you're doing that now. It's incredible. Explain that SoberSure is, is like an, another tool, like a breathalyzer, but it's, it looks just like a Fitbit. It's like a fitness wearable where it, it through sweat, it detects if a person is drinking or not. It's got a GPS tracking, band removal notification. So it's, it's a really good tool for, you know, teen drivers. It could be a huge asset in that area. It could be very, very beneficial

when it comes to people coming out of recovery, reestablishing trust and safety, people that are coming in and dealing with incarceration. There's a lot of different areas that it can come into play. It's awesome to see just more tools and resources coming to the table. And it's a lot more humane than a breathalyzer. It's like you're out on a date. It's like, hey, hold on, I'll be right back. Got to go blow. Got to run to the bathroom. Yeah. And it just, it monitors. And again, it's the areas that I've really seen it be beneficial to is for, you know, people that are coming out of, out of treatment, give you a specific case on that is when, you know, a husband and wife, they had little kids and the husband was, you know, drinking with the kids in the car

and stuff like that. And they didn't want to separate obvious, you know, separate as far as a marriage, but you know, as far as reestabestablishing and building trust again like the wife's like hey look you're gonna have to wear this you know especially when i'm at work and and gone but there's a lot of ways that it can come into play and then the other thing i've obviously been working on for the last four years is was with a-list which is the first ever jaco accredited at-home treatment provider it's been amazing working with them the last few years and the the thing that I'm most excited about is Ashley and I are going to relaunch Jaws, which is basically Jason and Ashley Waller stories, which was we, the first time we did it was when we walked after everything we just explained to you, we filmed for a year walking

what it was like going through the first year of sobriety. And so we'd come on every week and talk about the challenges and stuff we went through. And so we're going to talk about five years later where we're at, what we're doing. And so it's an opportunity for us to get connected and get closer, but also to share what we're doing and how we're growing. Exactly. Connect with other people and give people hope, honestly, because ultimately that's, I think what your story does is it gives people a lot of hope.

So I really appreciate you guys being here. Thank you. Thank you for having us.