Let's Find Common Ground - Depolarizing America: Bridging Divides on Campus

Episode Date: March 18, 2021

With American democracy in crisis, can students save the day?  For college students it can be frightening to consider the prospects for a better tomorrow. But addressing the problems in our political system will require the next generation to be more engaged and less polarized. BridgeUSA was formed by college students to tackle the crisis head-on, with campus-based chapters at colleges around the country. This non-profit group hosts discussions and events, champions ideological diversity, teaches constructive engagement, and aims to promote a solution-oriented political culture. BridgeUSA’s chief goal is to develop a new generation of political leaders who value empathy and the common good. Guests for this episode are Manu Meel, a recent graduate of U.C. Berkeley and Chief Executive Officer of BridgeUSA, and Jessica Carpenter, a senior at Arizona State University, who runs brand management and communications at BridgeUSA.

American democracy is in crisis with toxic polarization and political gridlock. For young people graduating college and entering the workforce, it can be difficult to be hopeful about the prospects for a better tomorrow. What are some new ways to think about this? This is Let's Find Common Ground. I'm Richard Davies. And I'm Ashley Meltaite. The political system will be an even more danger if the next generation is disengaged and polarized. Bridge USA was formed by college students to tackle the crisis head-on.

In this episode, we'll learn more about the goals of the group that aims to shake things up and teach constructive engagement, as well as promoting a solution-oriented political culture for leaders of the future. Our guests are Manu Meal, a recent graduate of UC Berkeley and Chief Executive Officer of Bridge USA, and Jessica Carpenter, a senior at Arizona State University. She runs brand management and communications for the group. There are many campus debating societies that already bring students together on a range of issues. I asked Manu first, what's new and different about Bridge USA?

I think that's a great question because it is what someone that is listening to Bridge would probably ask is, why is a bridge discussion different than a debating society? And I think the key is in that word debate, right, Richard? So the concept of debate is this idea of an opportunity cost. Someone has to win, someone has to lose, someone's experience and perspective is quote unquote better or is one the day. In fact, it's about eliminating that. It's thinking about how can we present a forum where the purpose of people entering that forum is not to trump the other person's argument,

but it's to understand and empathize. The idea is to humanize. Our concept and vision is that the best antidote to polarization is humanization, and we need more of that, especially in college campuses. Manu, you mentioned the phrase opportunity cost when we have a debate. What is that involved?

If I win that argument, the cost to you is that you lost that argument and you lost that debate. And so what you're going to be thinking about is not, okay, what was that person talking about? You're going to be thinking about, how do I make my argument better? How do I beat that person's argument? And that is what's wrong in our current toxic polarizing debate and discourse. You can only get to a debate level when everyone is on the same level empathetically and on the emotional side of things. If you and I both understand each other's values, if I understand what your life experience is, where you come from, where you grew up, how does

that inform what you're thinking today? That deep introspection, what Jess and I would argue, is probably more important and a prerequisite to productive debate. And right now, we're jumping to the debate. We're basically putting the card before the horse and not thinking about how do we actually have everyone on the same level. Jess, what would you like to add?

I think also what makes Bridge a little bit different is just you're going into these debates or discussions knowing that people are there to listen to you and are who are willing to understand. So it kind of totally gets rid of any worry of being able to talk freely. As you know that no matter what you're going to say, these people are here to listen to your background and really try to get an understanding of what you're saying. And you get really good constructive dialogue out of it, which is something that I don't really think

we can say a politics too often nowadays. Talking of backgrounds, I'd love to hear a bit more about each of your backgrounds, and what your foundations are, and how you came to be where you are today. Jess, do you want to kick off? Tell me a little bit about how you grew up, and did you talk about politics at the dinner table? No, I was talked to about politics at the dinner table.

My mom is very politically active, very vocal. And I grew up in a one-way leaning household, so it was more conservative. It's actually really interesting, because having that kind of background is you really learn the value of money and working hard for yourself and for your family. And then when I got to school, I wanted to talk about these things

that I was hearing at home. Nobody really understood enough about politics to have a discussion with me. And I also wasn't getting very much new information put in my way. So then when I got to college, it's an entirely different atmosphere. I was exposed to different cultures and different people. I joined bridge to learn more about the different cultures that I was now interacting with on campus.

Manu, how did you grow up? What's your background? How did you get into this? My family came over from India. I was born here, but then I spent the first sort of formative years, my first five to six years in a town, 40 kilometers west of New Delhi. And when I came back to the US, there was no concept of politics in our house. The politics was this sort of esoteric thing that the Americans practiced. And we sort of have to make it do, whether it is my mom

trying to pass her medical exams my dad trying to get his next job or for me it's like trying to just fit in to statin island which is where I grew up and that really informed a lot of my work because for me life was always adapting it was always thinking about different perspectives recognizing the human and people and the good and people so that I couldn't just interact with them and it's sort of what Jess echoed. I think she said it really well there is that we have these innate judgments about people, but when you grow up adapting to the circumstances around you're forced to abandon a lot of your initial precondition thoughts and go with an open mind. And we need a little bit more of that in my opinion. Manu, you wrote a recent article that neatly summarizes why so many young people

are down on democracy and pessimistic about the chances of real reform. Here's a quote from you. I was two years old when the United States was attacked on 9-11. I was 10 when my family was shaken by the 2008 financial crisis. I was 18 when I witnessed one of the most tumultuous presidential election cycles in American history. And as I graduate from college, the world is battling a pandemic. Wow.

Usually people say I'm an optimistic person. The rest of the article, though, and I think the title of that article is why I still believe in America. That's what's so fascinating about bridge, Richard Nashley, and I wish what other people understood is you meet people from so many different backgrounds and realize that there is a lot of hope in this country because people in power don't want us to oftentimes

see the differences, that those differences are so minute compared to what unites us. The idea about that quote is that the four major events that define someone like my life, Jessus life, and most people that are around 22 years old, so all of Gen Z, is 9-11, the Great Recession, the 2016 election, and when I wrote that article, the Capitol rides hadn't had been yet. So the Hodgepodge that is 2020. And that isn't a great sample size of democracy. It's why a lot of students are very apathetic about politics.

So they either engage in a very radical way or they completely disengage. Because the system doesn't seem to be responding to the reality the moment. We're already starting on a point where most people are age don't necessarily think of democracy as maybe the best system in form of governance. And that's a huge problem for the future of our country. When you say they don't think of democracy as the best form of government, so what do they think

of then as the best form of government? That's the problem there is that there isn't a definitive answer yet. That's the opportunity there, is that there isn't a definitive answer yet. That's the opportunity for different models of governance. Countries are slowly realizing that there's so many fractures within our broader liberal order that there's an opportunity for new systems of governance to prove that they might be more effective. Because we've been taught that democracy is the right thing, but it doesn't feel that way right now.

And we have to rescue that. But there's a lot of hope in how we can go about that. And that's what Bridge Focus is on. Tell us more, like, how is that going to happen? Well, I can talk about it at the national level. And the reason why I think someone, and seeing from our students, for example, Jess, she's an amazing leader,

both at the national level, but at the chapter, air is in a state. There's a national answer to that question. There's also a chapter by chapter, answer to that question. In terms of the national organization, there's one fundamental assumption that bridge rests on. And that is that the fundamental unit of democracy is people. We drive what products dictate our life. We drive what decisions dictate our life. We drive which leaders are elected. And in this world where there's so much technology, where it seems like we have so little agency, we forget that. Bridges job is to make those people more empathetic,

more constructive, and more solution oriented. And the two ways that we go about that realizing that assumption is first at the chapter level. And that's where really Jess comes in and her experience is there with the Arizona State chapter, which is one of our flagship operations. Jess, jump in on your chapter and your experience at Arizona State. Yeah, ASU are actually one of the more locked chapters within the Bridge USA organization. Where a chapter focuses on a lot is really building communities on campus and kind of opening up the platform for people to come and be able to share their opinions

and speak openly with one another. The one of our largest events that we do is called Bridge the Gap. Last two years, not this last year because of COVID, but the last two years we've gotten, I think over 130 students come together and we do like different round table discussions with different teachers, different student leaders on topics of interest and topics of

important to specifically younger people. It's really, really cool to see that so many people want to be having these discussions and so many people are looking forward to being able to talk civilly with one another when we're seeing a lot when you pay attention to politics is kind of like that battleground. Just you have an example of something that happened that may be delighted annoyed or surprised you. Yeah, so last year, last spring before COVID, it was actually our last really big event on campus. We hosted a partnership discussion with Brave Our Angels. It was kind of like a town hall debate and it was on border control and immigration, which is a really hot topic, especially being in Arizona. Obviously, you had the two sides where it was like what is more border security look like,

what is less look like, the different immigration, like pathways to citizenship. And then there was one different side that I have myself had never considered before. We had some Native American members come to the meeting and some of the wall at the time was being built over there like Sacred Land. And that this wasn't talked about before, at least not publicly and not for a lot of students to know that it was happening. That just goes to show the importance of having different voices involved in the discussion, but it also really, I think if it never but you take kind of a step back and be like, oh, yeah, like there is more to this than just once I telling you this and the other side telling you this, there is more to consider there. What about the culture of college campuses?

Are they dominated by liberals or progressives, even Marxists, Manu? Is that a problem? The answer to that question is that it really depends and you'll never see that in the media. If you go to a campus like Hillsdale in Michigan, very conservative campus, students are very focused on specific issues. And at that campus, liberals will tell you

they're under siege, they're being canceled on a daily basis. If you go to someone where you're like Berkeley or you go to somewhere like ASU, which is more left-leaning, especially somewhere like Berkeley, you go to somewhere like ASU, which is more left-leaning, especially somewhere like Berkeley, students are going to tell you that conservatives have never seen the light of day on Berkeley's campus. If you go to a campus like UT Austin, you'll have a huge argument on that question because both sides are very strong and

fervent there because of the geographic location of that school. location of that score. What about conversations on campus, I mean, Jess, where you are, is it easy for college students of different views to have frank and honest conversations with each other or are people checking themselves or immediately, you know, jumping down the throat of someone on the other side and judging them. I'd say at least a lot of the political engagement, especially now in the last year, has taken place between students over social gear. So that in itself kind of creates a different atmosphere because people are, I think, checking themselves or maybe looking to check others. And I know at ASU we've had a couple different discussions in the last year come up on free speech. There was one student who had shared something on social media and she ended up getting asked to step down from her position because of what she had said. And then we

had another student also who had written for the state paper. She also said something on social media and was asked to step down. But the backlash was different between these people. And I think it was more because the social environment happening at the time, it was during the Black Lives Matter movement, it was during the beginning of elections and COVID and all of these things.

So I think that that had more of an impact on how we were discussing politics at the time and especially because social media you're not based to face with somebody. It's easier to like forget about having those conversations and to put a wall up and try to create gotcha moments between each other. On campus I'd say that political atmosphere again again, is pretty civil to one another. There's spaces for both Republicans and Democrats to be able to discuss, and I know that they're also very interested in working with bridge on campus because they too like the idea of being able to work across

sides and just have that kind of conversation. We're speaking with Jessica Carpenter and Manu Meal on Let's Find Common Ground. I'm Ashley. And I'm Richard. This week we want to tell you about another podcast series that we both enjoy and we think you will too. It's about American democracy, which deserves to be cultivated, protected, and improved. That's why we recommend democracy works

from the McCourtney Institute at Penn State University. The show's about the many ways to reform democracy. In one of my favorite recent interviews, they spoke with entrepreneur investor and professor Sonan Aral of MIT, and it's a provocative conversation about social media and the impact on democracy. Democracy works is part of the Democracy Group podcast network. To listen, search Democracy works on Apple podcasts, Spotify overcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

podcasts, Spotify, overcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now back to our interview with Manu Meal and Jessica Carpenter of Bridge USA. Just from your perspective as a senior at Arizona State, what needs to happen to our broader political culture, one that you're going to be part of when you graduate? Yeah, I think what needs to happen is first just taking a step back. But I feel like everything that's said nowadays has some kind of underlying meaning or we're looking for a double meaning in what's being said,

which automatically creates tension between people when we're trying to have these discussions or when we're trying to create solutions for our issues going forward. So I think that just taking a step back and knowing that not everything is going to be a personal attack and not expecting that is really important. I also think that, again, my own opinion, but some prejudice is need to be removed from the parties because a lot of people, especially young people, don't want to have discussions

with somebody on the right side because they assume that they're like racist or they don't want to be able to listen and empathize with you. And then same for conversing with the Democrat, a lot of people think that they're gonna be like sensitive or maybe take it the wrong way or twist their words. And I think this is kind of a narrative

that's passed around very often. So yeah, I would just say taking a step back, trying to look past prejudices that have kind of snuck in their way into there. And then from there, just really looking to understand. Manu. So I think picking up on what what Jess said, their Richard and Ashley's essentially that democracy has two pillars, its institutions and citizens. You can't have either one of those out of whack. You need the institutions to respond to the people and you need the people to be active and engage that the institutions are held accountable to the people. And right now what we're seeing in American democracy is both an erosion at the institution's level

where people are losing trust in the ability for our systems of governance to respond. But then that's sort of creating a feedback loop where people within themselves are deflecting that lack of distrust onto their neighbor. And that externalization of feelings and resentment onto our fellow neighbors is what's really tearing apart of citizenry. So bridge only looks at that citizen level question and within that citizen level question, we look at how can we make sure that the next generation of leaders have faith in democracy, have faith in each other.

And as Jess said, have faith in the fact that people's arguments are different from their intentions. And oftentimes what we argue, we have to look at our intentions. What is driving the belief? What is driving our thoughts and our answers towards specific concepts and ideas? Manu, you say that strengthening democratic institutions, that democracy also requires an active citizenry. Explain. I think the best example that I could point to you is a lot of actually the foreign building and country building efforts that we pursued in the Middle East. In Iraq, for example, after 2003, we tried to set up democratic institutions. We established a democracy. We had some elections, but the fact was that the people were not ready to accept it. The people were not ready to embrace that,

and the people did not believe that it was possible. So you can have the best institutions on the planet. But if the citizenry is not behind those institutions, and if that ethic is not ingrained within them, that idea does not exist, then your institutions are merely facade for a lack of engagement that happens behind the scenes. And I think we're starting to see this with the Biden administration.

The Biden administration is trying to put on a very strong face with both unity and the need for better institutions. But the people don't seem to be ready. And that's why we're so worried. And so bridge, we're not the experts on the institutions. We're very humble about what we don't know. But the one thing we do know is that a lot of the Unites students, and so we're going to do our best to try to make students realize those commonalities amidst the differences that get highlighted so often in the media.

If you are successful, what will the public square look like in 10 years? In my opinion, I think about bridge chapters and the concept of bridge USA as civic spaces. Think about how you have in cities green spaces. Green spaces are basically areas where you just have greenery where you have an escape from society. You feel like you're transplanted into a different environment. Take green spaces. Bridge USA is developing civic spaces on college campuses. Spaces where there's vibrant democratic engagement where young people feel confident about what they have to say and students don't have to worry about the backlash they'll face when expressing different ideas and beliefs. And to me

success means that we have as many civic spaces on campuses as possible so that young people not only have the opportunity to practice engagement, but they see that other young people believe those things. Jess? Yeah, what I really, really would like to see and hope to see is more young people believe those things. Jess? Yeah, what I really, really would like to see and hope to see is more young people active in politics, but for the reason of coming up with solutions. And I feel like on college campuses, these discussions are the first step there, but I think in the long run, what I would like to see is hopefully more tangible solutions, more solutions made

for long term, not just temporary, like band-aids to cover up things that have been instilled for so long. The name of your group is BridgeUSA. What does bridge mean to you, bridging differences? In my mind, it's really just rebuilding this foundation for us to meet and have a common ground. You don't have to agree with each other. You don't have to convince each other. That's not the point.

It's just being able to have a space where you can actually just discuss knowing that you guys have differences, knowing that you're not going to come to a common conclusion all the time, but being able to have this space that is meant for conversations, meant to build us forward together despite our differences. I'm what about you, Manu. You were at UC Berkeley when Brichu, a say began. So in 2017, I was a freshman and it was my second semester and the speaker by the name of my Leonopolis came to campus.

And for those that don't know, he's a right wing provocateur, regardless of what you think of what he says, he says in quite inflammatory ways. And he was invited by the college Republicans. Before this, there was only this political club at Notre Dame called Dialogue and Discourse I Think and another organization at CU Boulder.

I think maybe at that point called Bridge CU. But there's nothing at Berkeley and I didn't know of this bridge concept. There are these huge protests because of this person's speech. The entire nothing at Berkeley and I didn't know of this bridge concept. There are these huge protests because of this person's speech. The entire school at Berkeley was on CNN. We're walking around, there's helicopters. A piece of our campus was on fire.

But that night I felt two things. I think first is gosh, we're so hopeless at this moment. And not hopeless in that, our country's hopeless, in that young people feel so hopeless because folks have to resort to that to feel like this person can't come to campus. And the second thing I felt was, we can't let this continue,

because if you let this exacerbate and pile on, history shows us that polarization really creates entrenched divisions that further these notions of people that disagree with us. And so the next day, there were these small little circles on Sproul Plaza of kids, five to six kids, just talking with each other. Kids like myself, they're just like, you know,

what do we do? Some of them are cleaning up all the trash that happened as a result of the protests. And the thing that came out of that was this concept, what if we just had a place, a space on campus, where we could just decompress as a student body without any administrators, without any sort of enforcement, without any vindication or threat of backlash, just discuss what the hell

happened. And that was the genesis for Bridge. And to Jess's point, for me, Bridge has always met despite all of the progress we've had in the past couple of years, despite the different folks that tell us to go one way or another, it's a place for understanding. It's a safe space for understanding. And it's we have to reclaim those words to empower them and to show that everyone's got a voice, everyone's got something to say. And if you say something that's different than me, it's probably because there's some lived experiences there. So let's get into those experiences. This isn't the only group with this mission. You know, there are quite a lot of groups like Common Ground Committee, Lesson First, Bridgelyance, that are all seeking Common Ground. What do these groups, what do we need to grow our cause, do you think?

Yeah, I think there's two things there. One is that I think just in case you didn't know, there's about 200 organizations trying to bridge the political divide. We need to show people that this exists, the capacities there, the infrastructures there. Now we need this elevation of narrative. And the second thing we need in our space is a strong desire for organizations to put

mission above self. The same way we ask people to put country over party party, and it's very easy to say that, we have to also do that with our organizations. Are we bringing value? Is there a niche for us? If not, what do we need to be doing better? And if we can't be doing something better, we've got to move out of the way

and let other folks that have far more established institutions continue bridging. Many of these bridging conversations are taking place among elite groups. And I'm thinking of bridge USA. Do you have chapters in community colleges and beyond liberal arts campuses? Jess? We do have a couple like some community colleges, but we also are involved with

different organizations also working on community campuses. Yeah, we haven't touched the Ivy Leaks on purpose, because everyone goes to the Ivy Leaks. Everyone engages them with opportunities, because again, it's putting organization above mission. The mission and the fact is that what's driven our politics for the past four years and what's become apparent is that there's large swans of the country that are not just left behind but are forgotten and not just in the Midwest and the South but also in the inner cities. This forgotten problem exists across the political spectrum. And where does that forgotten problem begin? It begins when people are at the community college level. No one comes to them with opportunities. As a result, folks don't see what else is out there and folks lack the ability to engage. And so over the next two years, our emphasis is build on our community college networks

and go to small private schools, small public schools that you've never heard of. Great example, school called Ball State University, Indiana, about 30 miles at Sadduce, South Bend. That's where David Letterman went to college. That's amazing. I didn't know that. Are both of you hopeful that you really can make a difference? Jess, inspire us. Yes, I definitely am. Just because every single time, like, going into a bridge discussion, especially over Zoom,

we're like, are people going to come? Did they even still care during COVID or other things to be worrying about besides bridging our civil dialogue? And every single time we enter our meetings on campus, the Zoom or however, there are people and there's upwards of like 10, and sometimes there's more than 20,

and it's really good to see that even in the midst of all this chaos, people are still really passionate about what we're doing and passionate about changing the future for the better. So yes, I am definitely hopeful. For me, after the Capitol riots, I went on a listening tour with some mentors and just folks that I think might know about the situation better than I do, and the fact of the matter is that it seems like no one has an idea where this thing's gone. And that's scary, but there's also a lot of possibility that comes out of uncertainty. And I think that's when the possibilities for destruction come.

And to Jess's point, what inspires me the most is just meeting our students, seeing that willingness is what drives me, because I think what we're doing is correct. I think it's the right thing. And seeing people practicing it helps me reaffirm that belief. Manu Meal, Jessica Carpenter. Thanks for joining us on Let's Find Colin Ground. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for having us. How does your mom feel, Jess, about your work? Is she proud of you? Is she bemused? How does your mom feel, Jess, about your work? Is she proud of you? Is she bemused? She's very proud of me. She sometimes doesn't like that I throw her under the bus, saying that I grew up in her talk politics to me. And it's not a bad thing. I don't say that like it's a bad thing. But she's very proud.

She loves hearing me talk about bridge because it's kind of like all I talk about now. Madu Meal and Jessica Carpenter speaking about the mission and work of Bridge USA. I'm Ashley Monsight. I'm Richard Davies from Common Ground Committee. This is Let's Find Common Ground. We release new podcast episodes every two weeks. Please follow or subscribe. And thanks for listening.

And thanks for listening. This podcast is part of the Democracy Group.