Let's Go To Court! - 10: The Honors Student Murder & the Wrongful Conviction of Lamonte McIntyre

Episode Date: April 5, 2018

Brandi starts us off with a story about 17-year-old honors student Syndi Bierman, who was murdered during a robbery gone wrong. At least… that’s what her sister said. When Syndi’s sister Shari called 911, she reported that their house had been robbed. But Shari’s story raised a lot of eyebrows. Including ours. Then Kristin talks about the wrongful conviction of Lamonte McIntyre. When 18-year-old McIntyre was accused of a double murder, he wasn’t too worried. He was innocent. He had a good alibi. He had no motive, and the prosecution had no evidence. But the jury convicted him anyway. McIntyre spent 23 years in prison for a crime he didn’t commit. Get ready to pull your hair out with frustration. This story has corruption at every turn. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “No Justice,” Kansas City Star “Kansas man wrongfully imprisoned for 23 years receives no compensation from state,” CBS News “23 Years for Murder. He Didn’t Do it. What Went Wrong?” New York Times “Lamonte McIntyre, wrongly imprisoned for 23 years for double murder, finally set free,” Kansas City Star “Lamonte McIntyre,” Midwest Innocence Project “Former Lamonte McIntyre prosecutor accused in new case of threatening a witness, misconduct,” Kansas City Star In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “State v. Bierman” Kansas Supreme Court appeal opinion “2 Slaying Suspects Sought” Associated Press, The Oklahoman “Woman Says She Hid While Sister Killed” Associated Press, Salina Journal “Kansas Fugitive Surrenders” by Joe Stumpe, Tulsa World

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll talk about the wrongful conviction of Lamonte McIntyre. This story has corruption at every turn.

And I'll be talking about the brutal murder of Cindy Bierman, a 17-year-old honor student who was murdered during a robbery gone wrong. Or was she? So this case is local. Okay. My dad told me about it and I didn't know anything about it and so it was actually, because

of when it happened, it was a little bit difficult to find stuff on it. So like I just told you before we start recording i had to like online microfiche the shit out of this like read back um editions of the salina journal and stuff like that so you feel like you were in a movie montage i've only seen people do that in movie no that is really cool i'm glad glad. Okay. So it's 1989 in Piper, Kansas. Do you know Piper? Really small town, right? So it's really, it's actually a part of Kansas City, Kansas. It's considered like a neighborhood of Kansas City, Kansas, but they have their own school district.

It was once like an unincorporated, it was its own town. And then, I mean, years and years ago, it was incorporated into Kansas City, Kansas. So to correct what I just said, I know nothing about Piper, Kansas. That's correct. Yes. It is the area basically where the Legends is. It's just north of the Legends. So yeah, I mean, you're, I'm sure.

And for people who aren't from around here. Around here, yes. It's like a, it's an outlet mall in Kansas City, Kansas. Okay. So 1989, Piper Kansas um oh notable person from Piper is Eric Stonestreet he graduated from Piper yeah so yes um he graduated there I think in 87 so right around the time yeah okay February 19th 1989 3 11 a.m wyandotte county sheriff's dispatch dispatch i need to stop putting that fucking word in my episodes because i can't say it right and you know what i can never help you out in the editing because here's here's what you and i have a tendency to do which is a

totally normal human yes you know say something, and let's say you put the emphasis on the wrong syllable. So then when you correct it, you say it like, dispatch. And then... You can't just leave that in and sound like a fucking idiot. Okay. So 3.11 a.m.

Wyandotte County, 911 Center. Is there another word for that? So 311 a.m. Wyandotte County 911 center. Is there another word for that? No, no. Not on this podcast. Receives a call from 21 year old Sherry Beerman. Sherry says she's just returned home after a night out and she believes her house has been broken into and that someone may still be in the house. Oh, shit.

The dispatcher tells her to leave the house immediately. Oddly enough, can say dispatcher just fine. I don't know what that's about. I don't know either, man. Dispatcher tells her to leave the house immediately. Go next door. Call back from the next door neighbor's phone. Right.

What does Sherry do? Not fucking listen no yeah 30 seconds later sherry calls back the 911 phone center and says that she's gone upstairs in the house and she has she has found her sister laying on the floor and there's blood everywhere. Oh, my God. Officers arrive at the scene at 320. As officers approach the house, Sherry, like, rips open the front door and grabs an officer and pulls him into the house. And she is hysterical.

She told the officers that someone had killed her sister and that she believed the suspects may still be in the house. So police search the house. They find the body of Sherry's sister, Sydney, upstairs in her bedroom. No one else is in the house. Portions of the house had been ransacked and several items are missing. Bierman, who was recently divorced, lived with her two sons,

ages one and three, in the finished basement of her parents' home. Her parents and her sister Sydney, I'm sorry, Cindy. Okay, let me just preface this by saying this girl's name is spelled S-Y-N-D-I. So my brain, That's asking for trouble. When I was reading through this,

like practicing it i was like i'm gonna fucking say cindy every time i see that her name is cindy and if i call her cindy i apologize you know what i do sometimes just change the spelling i thought about doing this okay so her parents and her sister Cindy live upstairs. Okay. Cindy was described as a blonde haired, blue eyed, 17 year old bundle of energy with a smile that could light up a room. As a young child,

Cindy was always busy with something. Dance lessons, competitive swimming, diving, softball, reading, piano lessons, and playing the trumpet and flute. Good grief.

Yes. When she was in junior high school, Cindy played in the band, played basketball and volleyball, and was a cheerleader. In high school, she was a yearbook photographer, played softball and volleyball, and was on the drill team. Cindy was an honor roll student who had been admitted at KU and was looking forward to college. Obviously, she never made it there.

Yeah. was looking forward to college obviously she never made it there yeah so sherry cindy's sister tells the police um that she left the home at 11 o'clock and returned at 3 a.m and discovered the burglary the burglary fuck i'm having problems today i want it to be a burr Gary. She discovered the burglar named Gary. That makes it so easy for the police because they're all named Gary. Yes, exactly. So she discovers the burglary and her sister's body. Sherry tells the police that she left the home at 11 p.m. and returned at 3 a.m. and discovered the burglary and her sister.

She stated that Sydney and two of, fuck, that Cindy and two of Cindy's friends, Renee and Lisa, were at the residence when she left. She said no one else was at the house that night. when police questioned Renee and Lisa, Cindy's two friends, about the events of the evening, they told a different story about who had been at the house that night. They said that someone named AJ had been at the house with Sherry, and that Cindy had mentioned that she was afraid of AJ and Sherry. AJ and Sherry, her sister? AJ and Sherry, her sister.

Yes. Interesting. Yes. So after hearing this, the police brought Sherry, her sister? A.J. and Sherry, her sister. Yes. Interesting. Yes. So after hearing this, the police brought Sherry down to the station where she repeated her statement that she left at 11, returned at 3, and no one was with her at the house. When confronted with the fact that other people knew that someone had been at the home with her that evening, she eventually admitted that Joseph Hernandez and Archie A.J. Owens were at the house with her and that they all left at 11 p.m she said hernandez and owens would not do anything like stealing property or kill her sister she said that out of the blue unprompted yep normal stuff so great just a couple of normal guys, right? Nothing to worry about here. Hey, Brandy, I just want to say totally casually, I'm not going to murder

you. Yes, you're right. Now, why are you sweating like that? Right, yes. Hmm. Turns out the stolen property was later found at Owen's apartment. No. Yeah, shocking.

So police go back to Sherry and they're like well you were clearly fucking lying about this and now hernandez and owens are nowhere to be found so they arrest sherry and charge her with theft over 500 and aiding a felon helping a felon escape because they believe that she told this kind of false version of the story to allow them to give them time, time to run. Yes. At that time, though, Hernandez and Owens were also charged with theft over $500 and first degree murder. But the police had no idea where they were. So there were just warrants out for their arrest.

They were charged in absentia and they issued warrants. There was like a, you know, I don't know, a national release. Like, we're looking for these people. Right. Whatever. Turns out on February 21st, so two days after the murder, two, three days after the murder. Two days. They had actually been stopped by a trooper in Oklahoma as they were hitchhiking after their car broke down.

They were traveling with two girls, one of which was a 15-year-old runaway from Johnson County. Oh, my. The trooper actually took her into custody because when he ran her name, it came back that she was a runaway. And so he took her into custody. And the other people's names all came back clear. And so he actually, the trooper actually gave them a ride to the county line because hitchhiking was illegal and then let him go. It's unclear to me what happens next. They either gave the trooper fake names or their name, like their identities had not yet been released that they were wanted.

And this was the 80s. So yeah, exactly. So later that same day, the next day. not yet been released that they were wanted um and this was the 80s so yeah exactly moving so later that same day the next day this same trooper sees this wanted thing and he's like look those are the guys that i gave the ride today and so they've narrowed down where they are there so they believe they're still somewhere in Oklahoma. The next day, Hernandez actually calls the police. He calls 911. He's like, hey, I'm tired of running. I'm in Tulsa. I'm at this hotel.

Come get me. I'll surrender. And so... And was this AJ? No, this is Joseph Hernandez. Okay, gotcha, gotcha. So he turns himself into authorities. He's arrested without incident. It's unclear to me when the other guy, Archie Owens, AJ, when he's arrested, incident it's unclear to me when the other guy archie owens aj when he's arrested but eventually he is right okay um so after hernandez surrenders they you know bring him back to kansas and he talks to police and he walks them through

everything that happened the night that cindy was killed which which led to them amending the charges they had filed against Sherry. Oh, no. On February 23rd, 1989, she was also charged with first degree murder. Yeah. So in a plea agreement, Hernandez pled guilty and agreed to testify against Sherry and A.J. guilty and agreed to testify against Sherry and AJ. So on June 26, 1989, Sherry Bierman and Archie AJ Owens went on trial for the brutal murder of Sherry's 17-year-old sister, Cindy. Okay, so this is what Hernandez testified when he took the stand. He said that he had known Sherry for about a year. He had seen her one to three times a month. They were not dating and he saw her.

Okay. So this information comes directly from the court transcripts. Okay. He saw her for sexual relations. How old is he? He's 22, 24 or something like that. Can't you picture some nervous little dweeb like,

uh, sexual relations. Sexual relations. So, they weren't dating. They were buck buddies. They met up every, every, two, one to three times a month

and they had sex. Uh, make love. Yes. Um, on February 18th, 1989, he testified that he was living with Owens and Owens' girlfriend, okay, her name may be Tammy Lewis. testified that he was living with Owens and Owens' girlfriend. Okay. Her name may be Tammy Lewis.

It also may be Tambi Lewis. It is spelled T-A-M-B-I. But is that a name? Is that a silent B? Are these names just intentionally spelled weird to fuck me up? I think they had this podcast in mind. So. Let's call her this podcast in mind. So. Let's call her Tammy because Tammy.

Tammy. That's not a real name, is it? I don't think so. Okay. So we're going to call her Tammy for all intents and purposes. Her name is Tammy. So Tammy Lewis. He's she and so Tammy Lewis is Owen's girlfriend and Owen's Hernandez and Tammy are all living together.

Tammy had incidentally just been released from a mental hospital after serving three years for the murder of a 91 year old woman. Oh, my. So she there. I tried to find some information on this, but she was a juvenile when it happened. So everything's sealed. So, OK, I don't know the circumstances, but somehow she was found guilty of murdering this 91, 92. It was cited two different ways in different articles. So elderly woman and she was sent to a youth.

It was the Beloit Youth Center, which from my reading is understand it to be. I understood it to be a some kind of mental institution. Right. But she only served three years. But if she would have been if she was if she was charged as a juvenile and then only had to serve until she became an adult, that would that would potentially make sense, I guess. I don't know. I mean, it's not like she was shoplifting at Claire's, right? Yeah.

Okay. Which, did you hear the news that Claire's filed for bankruptcy? Don't rub it in. We bought so much stuff there back in the day. Oh, my gosh. So much crap. And I remember I was always pissed when the bracelets would break immediately, like, in the mall food court. Yes!

I was always surprised. Couldn't believe my $7 investment never paid off. Okay. So the three of them are living in an apartment together. So on the day of the murder, Hernandez called Bierman between 5 and 5.30 and they agreed to see each other. So Owens gave Hernandez a ride over to Bierman's house in Lewis's car, in Tammy's car. Okay. They stopped on the way and called Bierman to make sure it was okay if Owens came along and she's like, yeah, whatever, that's fine.

Right. okay if owens came along and she's like yeah whatever that's fine right so they arrive at the beerman home at approximately 6 30 and after 20 to 25 minutes the three of them owens hernandez and beerman all got in the car with um beerman's two children and dropped them off at the babysitter okay after they dropped the kids off they drive around for a while and then the three returned to sherry's house they parked in for a while and then the three return to Sherry's house. They parked in the garage and then entered the basement apartment. Cindy's car and two other cars were at the house. So Bierman used her the phone in the basement as an intercom and called upstairs to her sister Cindy to see who was there.

But Hernandez testified that Bierman did not want Cindy to know that she had two guys in the house with her. And so she was kind of weird about it. Okay. So after she calls and finds out who's in the house, Hernandez testifies that then they have three-way bondage sex in the basement. Whoa. Yes.

three-way bondage sex in the basement. Whoa. Yes. Afterward, Hernandez and Owens suggested that they steal things from Bierman's parents' house, and Bierman said, that's fine. Do whatever you want. What? Yes. Hernandez admitted that he and Owens had talked earlier about stealing

from the house. So it was like when they were driving over, they're like, oh, wouldn't it be great? Because it was a pretty nice house, I guess. They had nice stuff. I mean, it was 1989. they were driving over, they're like, oh, wouldn't it be great? Because it was a pretty nice house, I guess. They had nice stuff. I mean, it was 1989. They had a computer. I mean, they.

The bondage threesome wasn't enough. Wasn't enough. They wanted to do the bondage threesome and then steal stuff from the house. I've never felt so lame in my entire life. So shortly before midnight, Owens, Hernandez and beer man left the beer man home so they drove lewis's car so they drove the the girlfriend's car back to the apartment and then they leave in sherry's car and go pick up the kids from the babysitter i'm guessing that the babysitter was like i'll watch him till midnight and that's it so they go pick the kids up from the babysitter i'm guessing that the babysitter was like i'll watch him till midnight and that's it so they go pick the kids up from the babysitter they bring them back to the apartment where um

owens and hernandez live drop them off there while tammy the recently released convicted murderer and the 15 year old runaway are at the this um apartment so these are the babysitters. Those are the new babysitters. Good God. Yes, yes. And then they get back in the car, Owens, Hernandez, and Bierman, and go back to the Bierman house.

Oh my gosh. On the way, Hernandez testifies that Bierman directed them to a construction site to pick up two by fours in case they had to knock someone out. Because their plan is now to go back to the house and steal stuff. With the anticipation that it'll probably go badly. Yes. Bierman said that it would only be her sister at home, that her parents were out and they would still be out.

She figured that Cindy's friends had left. And so if they were just quiet, they wouldn't wake her up. Steal everything you want. Yeah, you could just take what you want and leave. Upon arriving, Hernandez tried to go downstairs while Owens and Bierman went upstairs. The basement door was locked, so Hernandez just followed Owens and Bierman went upstairs. The basement door was locked, so Hernandez just followed Owens and Bierman upstairs.

Well, and I'm guessing she didn't want them stealing her stuff from the basement. I'm guessing. Right, I'm guessing. Which is like classic dumb thing. Oh no, Mom and Dad, someone robbed our house. They didn't take any of my stuff. Yeah. Hernandez and Owens each had a two by four.

By Hernandez's testimony, Bierman did not have one at this time. Okay. Doesn't, okay. Yes. I mean, I know I'm picking on a weird thing here, but doesn't that sound like the fucking dumbest thing? I mean, trying to quietly sneak through a house while you're carrying a two by four? Yes. Come on.

Yeah. So, OK, this is this next piece of testimony is weird to me. And it presents some questions. I feel like later. OK. OK. So Hernandez testifies that Beerman stomped on the stairs on their way upstairs in an effort to make noise. He said that they were outside Cindy's bedroom.

The bedroom door was open and Cindy began to wake up and asked who was there. Hernandez hit Cindy two or three times with the two by four. And then Owens hit her three or four more times with his two by four. Owens two by four had nails in it oh god cindy rolled off the bed and began screaming hernandez pushed a pillow over her face and owens hit her on the head and then hernandez was like according to him was like fucking i'm out of here i'm gonna go get steal some. So he left the room, according to his testimony. What a good guy. He just, he was like, you know what?

I was in it for beating this woman up, but now it's too much. Yes. Hernandez testified that he heard Owens tell Bierman to get her. And then he heard Bierman yell, you fucking bitch. Then he heard a thump. Owens told Bierman to get some knives. Beerman left and then came back with two knives from downstairs. Hernandez denied cutting or stabbing Cindy or being present while anyone cut or stabbed her.

Four kitchen type butcher knives were introduced as exhibits by the state and blood was on the knife found on the floor in cindy's bedroom and on the knife that was found under the dining room table the blood could have been cindy's or beerman's but the analysis excluded owens blood as well as that of hernandez so there was blood on the knife but it was either cindy or sherry's It wasn't either Owens or Hernandez. Gotcha. Hernandez then testified that he had kicked open the locked basement door and unplugged the computer and printer while Bierman was still upstairs. Hernandez, Owens and Bierman took a computer, printer, VCR, camera, two watches, tapes, a mirror and $60. Hernandez identified the stolen property, recovered from Owens' apartment.

He said all three helped load it in the car, and then they took it and the two by fours with them. Bierman, Owens, and Hernandez moved the stolen property and the two by fours into Owens' apartment. Lewis, so Tammy, Riley, Tina, the 15-year-old runaway, and then Bierman's children were there at the apartment when they got back. Hernandez went to a downstairs apartment where it was like, you know, they were friendly with the downstairs neighbor. This woman, Tina Buck, was down there. And she, so he went down to that apartment and he asked Tina Buck and then some other girl who was there how to get blood off of his shoes. Are you kidding me?

Bierman was down there with him, told him to shut up and come back upstairs. Hernandez told her to go home and call the police and say that the house had been robbed, that she'd just come home and found a robbery. Bierman left with her children. And he stated in his testimony that he never threatened Beerman. And the last thing Beerman said when she left was, I'll talk to you later. So did they walk into the apartment with bloody two by four, and the kids were in there? I'm guessing maybe the kids were asleep, because it was really late by now. I would hope.

I'm hoping. But the 15-year-old runaway and Tammy were there. Yes. Okay. And when Owens and Hernandez go on the run, Tammy and the 15-year-old runaway go with them. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're on board

for whatever they're doing, apparently. Okay. Tina Riley, the teenage runaway, testified that Hernandez told her that he, Owens, and Bierman had beaten Cindy and that he had slit her throat because Cindy was yelling. So,

Hernandez testifies that he was not involved with the stabbing or the or the throat slitting right um but tina riley says well that's not he said he told me that he slid her throat tammy lewis pled guilty to aiding a felon after the fact and then testified that she was at owens apartment the night of february 18th in the morning of february 19th she said that owens hernandez and beerman dropped off Bierman's children. They said they were going to burglarize Bierman's parents. And she testified that Bierman did not object.

She was there when they were talking about this plan and she was on board. When they came back, Bierman helped carry the stolen property into the apartment. Lewis said Owens told her that all three had beaten Cindy up. And Owens said in front of Bierman, well, Sherry don't care about her little sister anyway. And Bierman replied, I hate that little bitch. Sounds like it. Yeah, sure does. So Tina Buck, the woman who was in the apartment downstairs from them, she testified that Hernandez came came to the apartment came to her apartment um

and either late that night or early the next morning and hernandez told her that he had killed a 17 year old girl he said that he had slit her throat and that owens had stabbed her in front of buck hernandez had asked beerman how to get the blood out of his shoes and beerman had told him to shut up so she is corroborating that part of the story yeah next sherry beerman took the stand in her own defense always a wise choice right and she told a little different version of that night's events okay so sherry testifies testifies that Hernandez and Owens came to her house Saturday, February 18. At 7pm. They took her children to a babysitter. And then Owens, Hernandez and Bierman ultimately returned to her house. They went directly to her basement bedroom.

Cindy, Lisa and Renee were upstairs. Bierman stated that she, Owens and Hernandez, left around 1130 p.m. And that they drove over to Owens' apartment. Bierman and Hernandez then went and picked up her children in her car. And then after picking them up, brought them back over to Owens' apartment. So, so far, her version of the events, same. Sherry testified that she left her children at owens apartment with lewis and riley and then that the three of them owens hernandez and beerman returned to the beerman house they went downstairs to her bedroom owens left the room and beerman and hernandez had sex

so beerman denies having three-way bondage sex however ow's chain belt was found in Sherry's room. So if he left the room while the sex is going on, what's his belt doing on the floor in there? You know, when you leave a room and you just leave an article of clothing behind. Normal stuff. That's why we're recording

this without pants on. Because we walked through my living room. I thought it was because it had been so hot in the last few times no no no after the mystery sex either two or three people were involved the world may never know um hernandez and beerman get dressed and they went upstairs at Hernandez's suggestion. So Sherry testifies that she had not seen Owens since he left the bedroom. When?

Right. When he flung off his belt. Off his belt and left the bedroom. Yes. Hernandez. Hernandez. Hernandez commenced throwing things off the TV. Bierman asked, what are you doing? And Hernandez told her to shut up.

She testified that she then ran downstairs, locked the push button lock on the doorknob, and fastened the door chain. So her version of events is that, yes, the beginning part that they said, that all happened. But when we came back to the house, I only had sex with Hernandez. I didn't have sex with AJ.

And then when they started to ransack my house, I ran downstairs and locked the door and hid in the basement. So she then continues to testify. And she says that she heard things hitting the floor. She stated that she didn't know if Cindy was home at the time. And that maybe five to ten minutes later, the basement door was kicked in. Hold on. Do you know, did she have a phone down there? She did.

So Beerman did not use the phone in her bedroom to call the police. Uh-huh. Yes. So, yes, she did have a phone down there, Kristen. Very astute observation. You know, I've got some assumptions about why belts are left behind. You know, this is why we're here for this expert analysis. That is right.

So she's hiding in the basement. She's scared for her life. She doesn't know what's going on upstairs. Maybe her sister's up there. Maybe not. But she has access to a phone and an exit, it sounds like, because they have been coming and going in and out of this basement without anybody else seeing them. So, but she's just hiding down there. If only there was like a three digit number, she could have called in that situation. Right.

Exactly. Damn. in that situation. Right, exactly. Damn. So after the basement doors kicked in, Hernandez comes down and he says, let's go, do what I say,

or I'm going to do it to you. Whatever that means. Bierman testifies that she was scared. Hernandez put the computer in the car and other items from the Bierman home were already there. At this point, they drive back to owen's apartment um and as she stated on the stand was that she went back there because she had to get her babies she picked up her children and then she denied helping unload the stolen property hernandez told her to call police, report a burglary. God damn. Report Gary.

Yeah. I am not putting the word burglary or dispatch in any more of these episodes. From now on, when you're researching a case, if someone gets robbed, it's too bad. Too bad. I can't cover that story. People who are in it for the murder alone. Yes. So he tells her to call police, report a burglary, and not tell who did it.

Bierman testifies that she left Owen's apartment at approximately 2 or 2.30 a.m. with her children in her car, and she drove around trying to calm down before going home. She then, when she returned home, used the kitchen phone to call 911 to report the burglary. At that time, she said she was not aware that anything other than a burglary had taken place. She then went upstairs to her parents' bedroom and then to her sister's bedroom where she saw her sister and blood was everywhere and that's when she says she called the police um again from her parents bedroom okay but if you'll remember what i said at the beginning of the story here's where i have a problem with this she called the police said that she had just come home she believed the place had been robbed and maybe there was some still someone someone in the house right and they told her you know go next leave the

house go next door um call the police yeah back but she called them 30 seconds later saying she'd found her sister's body so in the 30 seconds that she's in the kitchen she manages to go upstairs check her parents bedroom check her sister's bedroom, find her dead, bloody body on the floor, and then go back into her parents' bedroom and call police again. That doesn't match up to me. None of it makes sense to me. Well, yes. I mean, just from the very basic thing of you truly think someone else is in the home. I am glad that you say this. Okay. Because when I was a teenager.

Oh my God. I have a story for you. Yeah. What happened? So when I was a teenager, I was at home. I was at my dad's house. I was by myself. And I heard this like loud bang in the basement.

And so I, what did I do? I go down to the basement. Are you serious? Yes. I go down to the basement. And our basement was finished, but we had like this storage room off to one side and there was like a walkout door from that one side. And so I walk back there and that basement door that walks out was standing wide open.

And so I like fucking ran up those stairs. Well, yeah. Slam the door, locked the door to the basement. So that if somebody was down there, I guess they'd be locked down or they'd have to go out the back door. I don't fucking know. And then I left the house and I didn't call the police, but I did call my sister.

What? I called my sister who was at work and she and a guy from her work came to the house and like checked it out. What? Yes. Are you kidding me should i have called the police oh my god what if it was nothing which it turned out to be there was nobody in the basement oh my god i don't understand any of that. Not a thing. So you would not have gone down to the basement at all?

No. No. You would have just called the police? Okay, well, hold on. Let me try to put myself in your shoes. And I'm trying to think of times when I've been in really sketchy situations. See, I've never been in anything like that before. Well, it turns out it wasn't that sketchy of a situation.

Nothing was going on, but the back door was standing open. But when it seems sketchy. Yes. Yeah, when anything seems sketchy, I always have my dog with me. Yeah. She seems very ferocious. She does seem that way.

But I don't think it is. The diabetes slows her down. Although, if we have any potential robbers listening to this, she doesn't have diabetes. She's doing great. You do not want to mess with this nine-year-old dog. She is a beast yeah i i feel like a lot of people are like oh i don't want to trouble the police i feel like i would trouble the police and and especially so you're talking about your sister casey right yeah i feel like

especially if i were in her shoes and kyla called me and was like oh my gosh you know something's going on I wouldn't be like wait there well they told me not to they told me to get out of the house like I waited outside of the house for them to come um yeah I feel like I'd be like time to call the police what turns it turns out what probably happened is that that basement door wasn't latched properly and so like a wind gust or something and come and the door had swung open and then like slammed against the wall and that's what the big thump was but it could have been a murderer honestly it sounds like the beginning of every horror movie ever the cute 17 year old girl is like oh I hear something terrible from downstairs. Better. Were you wearing

just a tank top? Going down the stairs? You know I had a turtleneck on. Okay. Okay. Snow pants. That's what ensured your survival. Yes. You ran but then you fell. Yes. On something wet

perfectly. Yes. On something wet, perfectly. Okay. So back to Piper in 1989. Please, no. Let's go. Okay, I will tell you. The one time when I thought a murderer was after me, I was on a walk. Well, actually, there's been a couple times that I've thought a murderer was after me on a walk maybe it's the paranoia

but there was one time I was walking down the street with Peanut and it was dark and there was a tall man walking several yards behind me but it was kind of like okay we're the only ones on the street I'm concerned

and so i try to like sneak a peek at him surreptitiously and i see that he's wearing a hat that obscures his face and i see that he's a lot taller than me well great yeah which i'm i'm not used to people being a lot taller yeah i was like oh okay not great no this is not a great setup i'm not going to be able to just headbutt this guy and surprise him. So I was like, okay, cross the street. So I cross the street. He crosses the street.

I cross the street back. He crosses the street back. Oh my gosh. So at this point, I'm like, I'm not paranoid. Yeah. He's going to kill me. Yeah. I have my pepper spray out. I'm not paranoid yeah he's gonna kill me yeah I have my pepper spray out I'm ready and I start

you know just speed walking booking it I've got I've got the pepper spray on the olympic speed team all of a sudden and I got away from him and you know got into my apartment, safe and sound. Next day, I go to work. The features editor at the newspaper I worked at was like, Hey, Kristen, I wasn't trying to hurt you. He was this really tall guy. The nicest guy, like, super Christian, sweet man, with a family, and he was

just trying to say hi. And I was like, not today! Not today! You try to say hello to me at, like, nine o'clock at night, I will pepper spray you. That's amazing. So I live to tell the tale.

Clearly I barely made it out of there alive. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Well now we know how we handle crazy. I underreacted. You overreacted. I blowed up. I'm like, death is near. Death is near.

Oh, God. Okay. So now we're back to... Yes. Back to Sherry on the stand here in court. And she says, you know, I didn't, I was hiding in the basement. They forced me, you know, whatever. I get back to the house.

I call the police, whatever. And she testifies on the stand that she also had not seen, didn't have any knowledge of the two by fours before she saw them as they were entered into evidence in court. So. Okay. Okay. So she's telling one version. Wait, wait, I'm i'm sorry yeah i was just nodding along like yes she's saying she had no idea about the two by two by four she said even though they were in the car she says she's never seen them before did not tell them to get them from a construction site yeah she has no knowledge of these two by fours until she saw them in evidence in court bullshit

yeah yeah okay so here's the problem with her version of the thing of everything well she's the only one fucking telling that version you got i don't know five other people over here who are like no this is how it happened so now there's gonna be some evidence that's gonna be totally backs her up right no ma'am you're kidding the coroner and the pathologist who performed the autopsy testify um dr alan hancock the wyandotte county coroner, he went to the Bierman residence shortly after Cindy's body was discovered. He testified at trial that there were wounds to Cindy's hands and arms, which appeared to be defensive. And that her throat. Wow.

And that her throat was slit after she had been beaten and when she was in deep, profound shock. So it was one of the last things that was done to her. Dr. Hancock concluded that the entire episode probably took several minutes to occur. So this wasn't like a real quick thing. Then the pathologist who conducted the autopsy dr philip van thulen that sounds completely made up you l l e n a r this sounds like an episode of seinfeld where ge George Costanza is like making up a name for himself.

This is his art, Van the Lace. Okay, so Dr. Van Thulinar, he testified that there were many wounds on Cindy's hand and neck. Her cheekbone was fractured and the bone above her eye was fractured and displaced. Van Thulinar identified a faint oval bruise on Cindy's right forehead. The bruise had a number of. Her right forehead. Sorry.

Not her left forehead. Everybody's got two foreheads. On the right side of her forehead? Do you like that better? Hey, I don't know what kind of crazy head she had. I like that you were stuck on forehead so you didn't even hear me call a bruise

a bruise. You're slipping in all kinds of good stuff today. Okay. So the bruise on her right forehead had a number of evenly spaced cross marks. It was typical of a shoe mark. Van Thulinar stated that the bruise was probably from the sole of a woman's shoe. Yeah, so the two guys have two by fours

and the sister has a shoe. Yeah. Yep. So she like stood on her sister's head, basically, is what that says. Oh, um, there were seven superficial wounds on the left side of Cindy's neck,

a wound on the right side of her neck, cut the carotid artery and the jugular vein stab wounds were identified on each side of Cindy's abdomen. Van Thulin are determined that the amount of blood and the tissue from the head wounds were... Oh, I'm sorry. I put the emphasis on that. Van Thulinar determined from the amount of blood

in the tissues that the head wounds were inflicted first, then the neck wounds, followed by the wounds to the abdomen. The cause of death was loss of blood. So she bled out. Poor girl. Yeah. What a horrible way to die so the jury found both sherry beerman and archie owens guilty and they were sentenced to life in prison sherry was actually sentenced to 15 years to life um and i don't know about a minimum on archie owens i couldn't find that info i think 15 years to life. And I don't know about a minimum on Archie Owens. I couldn't find

that info. I think 15 years to life sounds like super fucking low. Yeah, I agree. So there must have been some part of Sherry's version of events that led the, that left some kind of question about her willingness to participate.

I feel like that's pretty... Yeah, I mean, maybe if they really believed, okay, well, she didn't have a two by four, she inflicted less damage. But I kind i feel like that's pretty maybe if they really believed okay well she didn't have a two by four she inflicted less damage but i kind of feel like clearly she this had to have been her idea i mean she i mean sure she was the one who hated her sister yeah i yeah i don't know so um both remain in prison at this time they're both still in prison joseph hernandez he was also sentenced to life in prison after pleading guilty he was actually paroled in march of 2012 after serving 23 years so because he was kind of the first one to say okay i'm done with done with this. He kind of took,

yeah, he took responsibility for what he did. He pled guilty. So yeah, he has been paroled. Well, he did try to dress up his story a little bit, right?

Seemed that way. Maybe. I don't know. I think that his is mostly is corroborated by other. Okay. Okay. Other than the part that he said he didn't stab her. I guess you're,

you're right there. He said he wasn't involved in that portion of it, that he'd already gone back downstairs. See, that's what I'm remembering. That he was like, I did some bad stuff and then I left the room. Yep.

Okay. Yeah. So you're right. Yes. He did try to minimize what he did to some degree. I will accept a certificate. For remembering what was said 15 minutes ago. Yes.

After the trial, the girl's mother, Barbara Bierman, read a statement to the press over the telephone. She said, The pain of our losses is deep and raw. Before we can even begin to heal, the publicity must stop so we can deal with our feelings privately and reconstruct our lives as positively as possible. We appreciate the care and concern shown to us by the community and the Kansas City area as a whole. There are many caring people in the world and we have gained strength from our faith and the love that has surrounded us from family, friends and strangers. Wow. Yeah.

It's a pretty, pretty powerful sentiment. And they're pretty, I've read some stuff about the parents, and I'll go into it a little bit more here in a minute. But they were deeply religious. Okay. And so I think that a lot of that, their belief, you know, their strength comes from that. But they seem like very strong people. Okay. And so I think that a lot of that, their belief, you know, their strength comes from that. But they seem like very strong people. Yeah. That would just be horrible. Yeah. So let's talk about motive. Yeah, what the hell? Was it just a robbery gone wrong? No. It has been widely reported that there was a lot of jealousy going on in the home so sherry was actually the beerman's adopted daughter okay and cindy was their biological daughter she was this rock star

who was doing all this great stuff yes yes she wasn't living in the basement and so sherry was very jealous of cindy and believed that she was treated very differently by her parents. That they loved her more because she was their, you know, biological child. Here's my thoughts on that. You've got the younger sister, Cindy, who's this, like you just said, this rock star. She's an honor student. She's going to college. She's doing all these extracurricular events.

She's involved in her church. She's doing all these extracurricular events. She's involved in her church. And then you've got their other daughter, biological or not, who is divorced. May is, I don't know, having random sex with men and maybe is not living her best life. So maybe it's not that her parents are treating them differently. Maybe it's that she wasn't living the life that they thought that she should live. Yeah.

And even if they did treat them differently. Yeah. Yeah, I think it probably has very little to do with their origins. Yeah. And probably more to do with their life decisions. Yeah. And even if it didn't, you don't get to kill your sister.

That's what I'm saying. Like I, I have a pretty fantastic sister. Yeah. I don't get to do bad stuff to her. Yes. I have three great sisters. And have we always gotten along? No.

Have I ever thought about murdering them? Never once. Not seriously anyway pretty terrible so so by so they had so now they're i assume raising the grandkids right yes so yeah so the um the beerman sisters their parents barbara and leonard beerman they actually became active members of the Kansas City chapter of Parents of Murdered Children. Parents of Murdered Children is a group that makes a difference through ongoing emotional support, education, prevention, advocacy, and awareness. They have become very involved with that. They do lots of events with that. And then they also

have said that, yes, that the grandchildren have been kind of the light of their life. But it's also painful. I'm sure. Because of where they come from, because of who their mother is. So I just wanted to kind of close with this quote from Barbara, the girl's mother. And she said, this was in an article that I read that talked about just the parents of murdered children group in general. She said, people don't know what to say to a mother who is the parent of both the victim and the killer. No matter what, they were both our daughters.

It's been a double edged sword. You deal with this situation the best you can. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Oh, those poor parents. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because what the hell do you say? What do you? Yeah. It's hard enough just when someone loses somebody. Absolutely. To know what to say. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That was a crazy one. It was pretty crazy.

And so sad. Really, really sad. But she's obviously been in prison for more than 15 years. So, yes, this is interesting. So she actually has gotten another conviction since she's been in prison. So I was reading about her a little bit. And like I said, this is a pretty, I mean, this isn't a huge, like famous case. This was a little bit difficult to find information on. But I looked at some like prison records for Sherry Bierman. And she has gotten, she got a conviction, another felony conviction for some kind of contraband scheme. so i don't know the specifics of it but i know i read a little bit

about it and it looks like she was running this kind of like she was involved i don't know that she was running it but she was involved with this contraband for sexual favors okay thing that was going on with some guards in prison yes so this guard that was kind of doing it uh-huh he it really came to light and i didn't write any of this down so so don't question oh yes this is all i mean this i have a photographic memory and all this is 100 accurate okay great um he had he and sherry had been romantically involved for a while and they've been doing this contraband thing and it'd been going on and whatever and then somehow somebody got wind of it that she was involved and she ended up getting this conviction and so he like cooled it on her and she was like this jilted ex lover. Now she's pissed.

So then this other woman is now doing it with him. She winds up pregnant. Oh, my God. What is this? Orange is the new. Yes. Oh, my gosh. She winds up pregnant, has like a secret abortion.

They try and like sneak in the abortion pill into prison for her to take it first they sneak in plan b and it doesn't work and so then they try and sneak in this abortion pill and it doesn't work and so now she needs like a full-on abortion and oh my sherry from what i understand writes this anonymous letter and it's like hey this is who's involved but it wasn't that anonymous because i mean how do you write an anonymous letter in prison anyway? Yeah, exactly. So they trace it back to her and the whole thing blew up and it turned into this whole, it was a whole ring. Wow.

Yes. That is nuts. Yes. So I assume that guard is in prison now. I would assume so. I would hope so. Yes. Wow.

Yeah. Hmm. Mm-hmm. That's what's going on in Kansas prisons, apparently. Well, I've got some more stuff on Kansas City. On Kansas City. Kansas, yes. None of it's good.

This is going to be a bummer of an episode. Oh, hell. It's going to make everyone from Kansas City go, eww. Or maybe it'll make people be like I'm actually on the Missouri side so it doesn't really count for me I'm actually in a suburb of Kansas I do happen to live on the Kansas side but I'm in a suburb so yeah for people who are like outside our little range it's like you know so Kansas City there's the Kansas, there's the Missouri side of it. And usually when we say Kansas City, it encompasses like a million different suburbs.

Yes. But the minute anything bad happens in one of the Kansas cities, we're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So I just want to start this by saying that I'm in Kansas City, Missouri. And I'm in a suburb. Now, the fact that Kansas City, Kansas is right down the road for both of us. Yeah. Just minor detail. For these cases of sadness and corruption, we don't claim it.

Yes, that's right. Next time something cool happens there, then we for sure claim it real fast. We live there yeah okay so this is the story of the wrongful conviction of lamonte mcintyre it's um it's a crazy story it's horrible um so let's get into it buckle your seatbelts oh gosh so let's start with the crime april 15th 1994 two o'clock in the afternoon in kansas city kansas a young man dressed all in black carrying a 12 gauge shotgun approaches a light blue cadillac in the cadillac are don Donald Ewing and his cousin, Danielle Quinn. And again, it's two o'clock in the afternoon. So, you know, they're not alone. There are witnesses. Um,

Danielle's father was nearby. So was his other cousin, Nico, Nico's mom, Josephine, um, Josephine's other daughter, Stacy, which when I was reading the article, I was like, well, wouldn't Josephine just be his aunt, but you know, whatever, whatever't Josephine just be his aunt? But, you know, whatever. You know. So there are a handful of witnesses all right there, including a neighbor, Ruby Mitchell. And she sees this guy with the gun and she immediately recognizes him. She's like, oh, that's Lamonte. He's that guy who hangs out with my niece sometimes. And she's so sure that it's this Lamonte guy that she almost calls out to him.

But then, you know, he approaches the car, shoots four times into it, kills both of the men in the car. And, I mean, sounds horrible. It is horrible. Danielle's dad was right there. He ran over to the car, was doing anything he could to try to get into his dying son he tried to break through a window with the butt of a wine bottle you know just to just to be so horrible horrible crime the killer runs back the way he came so um you know ruby mitchell ends up, hey, I think the shooter was this Lamonte guy who used to hang out with my niece.

He was about five foot six. He had his hair in French braids. I don't think that's it. Now, here's the thing. The article said French braids, which I'm assuming surely there wouldn't have been. You know, I trust that she must have said French braids. But I have never seen a man wear French braids. I mean, surely she meant cornrows.

I'm sure she meant cornrows. Because I hear French braids and I think like 11-year-old girl on a horse, you know, with two braids going down the back. But at any rate, she at some point told police that he had French braids. They have bows in the end of them. You'd think that would make him really easy to catch. A man with French braids. Now, I should just jump in. If he was actually wearing French braids, sir, we are in no way insulting you.

No, not at all. To the real killer out there, if you wore French braids, I'm sure it looked great. I'm sure it looked amazing on you. Yeah. So, you would think, you know know the police have just been told oh it's this lamonte guy who talks to my niece sometimes you and i are not police officers but i feel like the next logical step is okay let's go talk to the niece then let's go talk to that lamonte yeah do the police do it no no No. They don't interview the niece and they never talk to that Lamonte.

Do they talk to a different Lamonte? Yes. What? Yes. All right. So they set their sights on a different Lamonte. Lamonte McIntyre. Let's talk about what he was doing

on the day of the crime. Okay. He was 17 years old and he skipped school. Oh, hell. I know. I know. I feel like this is like

what your parents should warn you about. Don't say you can't skip school because you're not going to learn stuff. Yeah. Don't skip school because then you can't prove where you were yeah and you might be fucking put away for 23 years for a crime you didn't commit i mean that would scare the shit out of me yeah i mean parents scare us so there you go that's that's your next speech any parents who are listening we're giving up two people who

don't have children giving amazing parenting advice right now. Don't question it, folks. Yeah. Okay, so that day, Lamonte basically hung out at his aunt's house. So his two aunts, I'm trying to switch to the fancy East Coast aunt. I know. When I'm really Midwest trash and I just say aunt. Like every now and then I catch myself and I try to class it up a bit, but always fall back down okay anyway I'm gonna be who I am so his aunts lived really close to each

other and he basically spent the whole day with his cousins kind of going back and forth between the two houses watching tv all day so he was surrounded by people all day. Five people could account for where he was all day. Did that matter? No. No. So that evening, his grandma called him and said, hey, the police are looking for you. They want to ask you a few questions. Now, at the time, he really didn't think it was too big a deal.

He'd been caught with, I think, a pretty small amount of drugs a little bit prior. He was scheduled to go to juvenile detention. So he assumed they needed to talk to him about that. So he calls his mom, Rosie, up, says, the police need to talk to me. Rosie says, OK, I'll take you to the station. They go to the station. Almost immediately, he is charged with a double murder. What the fuck?

Yeah. Like, no questions beforehand just um it was pretty much uh i mean this this case is as bad as it sounds and worse oh god okay um thanks for And worse. Oh, God. Okay. Thanks for giving us an upper today. If you feel too good today, just keep listening. Yeah, just listen to this episode. You're like, things are going too well. So about six months later, his trial begins. And because it's a double murder, Lamonte is tried as an adult. And I think they might have actually waited until he turned 18 to have this trial

he pleads not guilty yeah he couldn't afford an attorney so the court appoints him gary long here's what lamonte did not know about his new lawyer gary long two years prior and i'm quoting from this amazing kansas city star article by by Eric Adler that you should read. Hold on, let me read it real fast. We're going to have 20 minutes of silence. It's a long article. We could pause the recording. We're not going to.

No, no, certainly not. So the article says the Kansas City, the Kansas Supreme Court informally admonished Long for failing to diligently pursue a client's discrimination action. What? Yeah. So that had happened two years prior, this informal admonishment, which. So he's getting like. Mm hmm. The. Yeah.

Like the C-team lawyer. I think that sounds like a compliment to me. I read informally admonished and I was like, what the hell does that even mean? Yeah. All I know is the next time I fuck up royally, I would like to be informally admonished. Because it sounds like nothing. Well, and we're talking about fucking up with somebody's lawsuit, somebody's court case. Mm-hmm.

That's impacting their entire fucking life. Oh, it gets worse. Oh, God. Ready for more on this guy? No. You thought that was, like, his one mistake as a lawyer? Oh, God. Okay, let's see.

Here's another thing. So, that happened two years earlier. During the time that Lamonte was his client, Gary Long was on two years of supervised probation for failing to competently and diligently handle the cases of three other clients. why is okay first of all why don't oh i don't even know how to phrase this okay people who cannot afford afford a lawyer deserve more than this they don't get like the shitty lawyer that can't work anymore because no one will hire him that's not what you get you're supposed to get an equal level of attorney provided for you yeah you're supposed to get an equal level of attorney provided for you. Yeah, you're supposed to get an effective attorney. Supposed to. I'm loving your reaction to this because when I was reading this, I would, there was like a white hot fire shooting out of me.

And I just, I had to walk away multiple times i mean everything about this is so incredibly unfair and infuriating yeah and man if the justice system were a person you'd want to punch it in the face so i've told you a little bit about this attorney i could go on but i'm just gonna can't handle it so i'm just gonna give you the big thing this guy was disbarred in 1998 okay wait how does that work it basically is like you are so bad that they're like you can no longer have your law license we're taking it away but then how does he did was he disbarred in one state, but he still gets to be a lawyer in another state? How does that work? So I believe you are disbarred state by state.

I don't think it's like a, Yeah. I'm going to be honest. I have no fucking clue. But I really do think it's like, You're the law expert. Yeah. My one semester,

my one semester of law school, why didn't they cover everything? They should have known I was going to drop out. They should have been like, we need to cram everything in there. Everything in this one semester. So I believe it was just like, he was licensed to practice in Kansas.

Kansas took it away. Don't worry though. He got his license back in 2015. In case you're looking for an attorney. So, yeah. The one negative thing that Lamonte did know about his attorney was that Gary Long had never worked a double murder. But Lamonte wasn't worried. He was innocent. He had an alibi.

Five people could attest to where he was all day. We've learned from past cases that that does not matter. Speaking of past cases, I'm going to read you a quote. You tell me who this reminds you of. Here's a quote from Lamonté. I wasn't really scared or worried. I was innocent. I thought the truth will come out

and everything will be okay. That's almost exactly what Damien Echols said. Yeah, yeah. Almost exactly. When I read that, I was just like, oh my god. Yeah. Damien Echols from West Memphis Three that you covered a few weeks ago. Yes. I mean, I think he was 18 too yeah he was yeah so yeah i i just wonder if like being young enough and you think well i'm clearly innocent of this yeah there's how there's no way that they could convict me of something that i did not do that's not the way the justice system yeah okay so my stomach is like in a knot right now over this. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a horrible. It's horrible. So the trial begins. Lamonte has his lawyer, Gary Long, who at that moment is under supervised probation. It's better than that unsupervised probation that we had in Robert Courtney's place. Yeah. She got unsupervised probation. We were like, uh, what the hell is that? That sounds like a fat load of nothing. Yes. That sounds like go to your room. Yes. We won't make sure you go to your room. So the prosecuting attorney

is Tara Moorhead and the judge is Judge Dexter Burdette. Would you like to know a fun fact about these two? Yes. Maybe. Years before the trial, they'd been engaged in a romantic relationship together. Oh. So the judge, yeah. Don't you need to recuse yourself for conflict of interest

in that situation? Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Did they do it? No. No. Fuck. So obviously that's a conflict of interest. Yeah.

Obviously you're supposed to come out with any conflict of interest. I think probably just go ahead and recuse yourself. If nothing else, I imagine you would at least say hey here's this potential conflict of interest and let someone else decide am i as a judge able to yeah i just am really impressed by our legal knowledge and we both know recuse yourself we are so smart we know like five legal terms i feel like we've run through all of this. We've used all of them. Nothing new coming out now. Yep.

That's it. That's all we got. It's all downhill from here, folks. So Gary Long, the defense attorney, said that he had heard rumors that the two of them had been romantically linked. But he assumed that they were just rumors because you know obviously one of them would have alerted him to the conflict of interest you know the judge would have recused himself so he just assumed it was all on the up and up yeah that's what you want your lawyer to do i want my lawyer making tons of assumptions yep yep um i'm I'm just going to throw this in there.

Kansas Supreme Court has ruled that judges should always tell attorneys about any potential conflicts of interest. So that falls under the category of fucking duh. Duh. Yes. Duh. Fucking duh. I just, it makes me so mad.

Yes. You've got a kid whose life is on the line yeah I don't know how yeah it's I'm so glad we have a podcast because I'm so good at words right now all I'm doing are angry yes hand motions I don't know if you know this, Kristen, but they can't see those hand gestures at all. They're just going to have to get a sense of it. My tone says I'm using a lot of gestures. I feel like maybe they can hear the whooshing noise. Yeah, because the mics are so good.

Yes. Okay, so in her opening statement, prosecuting attorney Tara Moorhead told the jury that numerous confidential informants had all named Lamonte McIntyre as the shooter. More on this later. But again, you know, she's told the jury, hey, lots of people can't tell you their names, but... Confidential informants. They named Lamonte McIntyre. Then she presented the physical evidence that they had against him

so I'm just going to read you a list of all the physical evidence they had against Lamont McIntyre I was like what the fuck did they have against him they had nothing I was like, what the fuck did they have against you? They had nothing. They had nothing.

Oh, I hate this. I hate this so much. Oh, God. I just, I can't believe they got away with this. Oh, God. They had no fingerprints. They had no weapon. they had no bloody clothes you know they had all these witnesses saying the shooter was wearing black pants black shirt oh my gosh um they also had no motive yeah they had no proof that lamonte mcintyre even knew these two guys. So what's the theory that a 17-year-old kid skipped school to go shoot two random guys he didn't know?

You're kidding. Oh my gosh. So why didn't they have physical evidence? I would say because there was none. Because he didn't do it. Yeah. Number one, because he didn't do it. Number two, the police never looked for it. Oh my gosh. They didn't do it. Yeah. Number one, because he didn't do it. Number two, the police never looked for it.

Oh, my gosh. They didn't do a search of his home. They didn't search his aunt's houses where he was that day. They got no search warrants. They didn't even, like, ask politely, may we come take a look around. Oh, my gosh. Didn't do any of that. My heart is beating so fast.'re so fired up so the prosecution called two witness two eyewitnesses and this is what it all really

came down to these two eyewitnesses one of the eyewitnesses was nico quinn danielle's cousin she'd seen the gunman. After Lamonté McIntyre was arrested, the lead detective on the case, Roger Golubski, came to her with a photo array. There were five photos, oddly enough, and keep this in your hat for later. Okay. In this photo array of five people is Lamonté, Lamonté's brother, and Lamonté's first cousin. What? Yeah. Um, pretty odd, huh? Yeah. Yeah. We're going to find out more on that later. Oh God.

So she looks at the photos. She says, I don't know. A week later, she called Detective Golubsky and said, okay, it was number three. And number three was Lamonte McIntyre. On the stand, she claimed she knew it was number three right away, but she was scared to identify him initially. Then the prosecution called the other eyewitness, Ruby Mitchell, the neighbor who saw the whole thing. She was the one who looked and said, oh, that's that Lamonte guy. French braids five foot six yes okay so you know she how how tall is lamonté not five foot six uh-huh he's he's tall he's he's almost six feet tall oh my gosh and goes without saying no french braids nor no cornrows whatever you want to call it

so they presented her with a photo photo lineup and she identified the shooter as guy number three lamonte mcintyre so again originally ruby mc ruby mitchell was referring to a different lamonte that lamonte was out of town at the time of the murder. So I just want to throw that out there so that we aren't thinking... It's this other Lamontae. Yeah. All Lamontae's have had a rough time with this. We don't need him in trouble for this.

So nonetheless, even though she had thought it was this other Lamontae, when she was on the witness stand, Ruby Mitchell said that Lamontae McIntyre was the one who she saw committing the crimes. Oh, God. Peanuts fired up about this, too. Now I really hope that the dog barking was caught on the mic, otherwise that just sounded really weird. So Ruby Mitchell claimed that he looked exactly like the other lamonte yeah uh what are the chances two lamontes looking exactly the same yeah

anyway then detective roger galupski was called to the stand he said that after ruby mitchell identified the shooter as Lamonte, the police started to hear from various sources that it was Lamonte McIntyre. So at this point, Lamonte's attorney, Gary Long, objects. And he's like, this is hearsay. So the prosecutor, Tara Moorhead, was like, uh-uh, I've got plenty of case law to back this up. This is perfectly okay. The two of them started to argue.

The judge told the jury to leave for a little bit. And eventually the judge is like, okay, Detective Golubsky can continue to use the term various sources or whatever. He can continue to talk about this as long as he's vague. And then he kind of turns to Gary Long and he's like, but like but remember you know you can always cross-examine this witness and gary's long gary long is like nah what yeah yeah oh my god yeah so this kid didn't have a chance no no he didn't have a chance. No. No. He didn't have a fucking chance. Ugh. Ugh. I'm so upset right now.

You're going to get so much more upset. Oh, God. Yeah, because. Kristen, if you make me cry. I made myself cry many times. Oh, shit. While I was researching this. It's just such a sad story. I'm like, you know, even the stuff I've told you now, you researching this it's just such a sad story i'm like you know even this

stuff i've told you now you know it's still clearly a very flimsy case um but at least there are parts of it that maybe if you were in the jury you could kind of be like well okay here's this detective who's been on the force for a really long time and he's he's saying various sources okay well why wouldn't i trust that anyway okay here we go so that was the prosecution's case no physical evidence two eyewitnesses so the defense argued of course that lamonte had an alibi his five family members had been with him all day and in his closing argument, Gary Long really hit home that the police didn't look for any evidence. You know, they didn't, they didn't care. He decided to give a closing argument?

Yeah, he woke up. He stumbled over. So the quote from him is, they didn't try to find a shotgun. They didn't try to find the clothes. They didn't even try. They didn't care. They haven't brought you anybody in here that can show this man even knew who these people were.

Okay. So the jury went into deliberation. They talked and talked and talked. Most people thought Lamonte was guilty. They did a vote. It was 10 to 2. Wow. Yeah.

Really? Yeah. I would like to know how many white people were on the jury. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I would like to know how many white people were on the jury. Yeah. Also, how many assholes. I don't know. Could we have a Venn diagram? Yes.

So, in this great article from The Star, they interviewed one of these jurors. One of the two who was like, I don't know. I don't know. He doesn't seem guilty. Gary Lauber was one of the jurors. He said he thought both sides were really sloppy. He thought the prosecution had a terrible case.

He thought the defense didn't do a good job either. And he said at one point he even thought to himself, were they just looking for a black guy named Lamonte? Right. Was that what this all just came down to? Eventually he decided Lamonte was probably guilty, but the evidence they had on him just wasn't very strong. Which, in our legal system, it's reasonable doubt beyond reasonable doubt. Yeah, it's not just, oh, they probably caught him. So Gary says that he caved.

He and the other juror, who thought Lamonte might be innocent, eventually changed their votes. He's regretted it ever since. He, and I didn't write this part down, ever since he and i didn't write this part down but i believe the article said that he eventually not that long afterward called the prosecuting attorney up because he was feeling guilty and kind of asked her and she was like don't worry we had plenty we had plenty of evidence all of that evidence they had we just didn't want to show it to you guys. Yeah. So they found Lamonte McIntyre guilty of both murders.

He was sentenced to two life sentences. And it seems like he was shocked. Yeah. Yeah, the seriousness hit him very fast. And it immediately became clear that once they've got you, they've got you. That said, a lot of people stood by him. His family stood by him. They knew that he didn't do this.

Well, he was with them. He was with a lot of them. But also, it just didn't make sense. Yeah. Two guys he didn't know. Yeah. No motive. Yeah.

His mom, Rosie McIntyre, was was his strongest supporter but it wasn't just his family who supported him uh sandra newsome who was danielle quinn's mother so the victim yeah she knew they had the wrong guy she absolutely knew it oh my gosh this is the part that makes me cry i'm like welling up right now i know um so she gave she gave this interview to the star in it she uses the n-word i'm not going to do that but i want to read read you the quote anyway she's talking about why this matters so much to her that lamont be freed she said he's somebody's son he's somebody's son he belongs to somebody so son. He belongs to somebody. So that's enough. You don't just put a blank in jail because you found one. He belongs to somebody. His mother has a right to justice. Oh my God.

I know. Ugh! I know. This is fucking terrible. It's awful. It's awful. Oh my God. Do you want to play next? Yes, please.

Oh my gosh i mean fuck oh i that quote made me cry four times yesterday just because you think of having your son murdered. I know. This is somebody who had their son murdered. And she's like, no, this isn't the right person. And you're doing something horrible to somebody else. Yeah.

Yeah. And on top of all that, it's not just like, oops, we tried to find the right guy and we messed up. No, you didn't even try. Yeah. Yeah. And she knew didn't even try. Yeah. Yeah. And she knew there was racism involved. So it's like, it's everything. Yeah.

It's everything piling up on her. So Sandra and Rosie actually became friends over the years. And Sandra vowed that she would not visit her son's grave until Lamonté was released. Oh my God. Yeah. So over the years, Lam lamont maintained his innocence he made multiple attempts to reverse the conviction in 1996 he asked for a new trial based on newly discovered evidence that was denied 1997 he filed a motion saying that he'd had ineffective counsel at his trial judge burddett, who was the judge at

the original trial, said, no, you know, basically, you didn't have a great attorney. You didn't have a terrible attorney. No, he had a terrible attorney. Yeah. And we don't promise you a great one. We don't promise you a bad one. We promise you an an effective one i think you had an effective one goodbye oh my gosh at this point i just want to point out um that in the course of this lamonte ended up being represented by two lawyers who were eventually disbarred oh my gosh yeah the second was mark sashes i don't know how to pronounce that, but, you know, anyway, I'm just going to say his name. I have this I have this anger and I'm like, you know what? We're putting you out there to put the name out there.

So he's getting shot down at every turn.'s trying to get uh some justice from the justice system and that's not happening yeah at all and to make matters worse people had a pretty good idea of who actually committed the really yes yes it was not some big secret yes my gosh so donyale quinn and donald ewing the two victims, did have drug problems. The day they were shot, they had a crack pipe in the car with them. You know, I wish I had a list of good things to say about them, too. But anyway, they had some drug problems. So, using the magical powers of common sense, a lot of people thought, hey, maybe this was a drug-related killing maybe it wasn't

just some random 17 year old kid coming up and shooting two grown men he didn't know yeah what a fucking concept yeah so he's he's in prison for this crime that no one thinks he doesn't that he did and then on top of that people kind of have a pretty good idea of who actually did it. But the years keep passing by and it does not look good for Lamontae. Then around 2009, there's a glimmer of hope. Centurion Ministries, which is a nonprofit out of New Jersey that works to free wrongly convicted people, teamed up with Kansas City attorney and total rock star Cheryl Pilot to look at Lamonte McIntyre's case.

So Cheryl Pilot is very involved with the Midwest Innocence Project and has been for a long time. I went to church with her, so I know her. Oh, gosh. It's very important that I insert myself into this. No, I just, I think this is so exciting that there are people who work to make the justice system work.

Yeah. Because clearly it wasn't working for this guy or his family or the victim's parents. Yeah. It was working for no one. So she has a very impressive track record, I imagine in everything she does, but specifically in fighting to exonerate wrongfully convicted people.

Okay, so Cheryl Pilot and Centurion Ministries worked on this case for years. Now, you and I are both very impatient people. And that's all I could think about this whole time. Yeah, no way. The investigation took seven years. So Lamonte is sitting in prison. And by the way, they started in like 2009. So he's been in there for a really long time.

So after this seven-year investigation, they wrote a motion for exoneration. Here's what they found out during the investigation. You think you're mad now. Get ready. So the first thing I've already told you about, because I couldn't resist, the former romantic relationship between the prosecuting attorney and the judge. Then they started looking at Roger Golubsky, the former lead detective. You know, he's the one everybody kind of trusted when he said, oh, confidential informants. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So they uncovered some really disturbing stuff about him. And I want to just start by saying he was on the police force in Kansas City, Kansas for 35 years, retired as a captain. I just burped. It was a reaction to him. It's not because i'm gross so i'm gonna read two quotes from the kansas city star article this first is from a retired fbi agent named alan generick he was investigating corruption in kansas city kansas and apparently when you investigate corruption in KCK, Roger Golubsky's name comes up quite a bit.

Here's what Allen said about Golubsky. Here's another one. They knew they would be arrested if they said no. The women were powerless and Golubsky exploited them. Here's another one. This one's from a retired KCK police officer who worked with Golubsky. She said, Golubsky made no secret of his activities. Golubsky also used his prostitutes as his informants. Once he had leverage or control over them, he could use that to obtain information for his cases from them. I emphasis on the wrong syllable. Let me, let me start that quote again. Golubsky made no secret of his activities. Golubsky also used his prostitutes as his

informants. Once he had leverage or control over them, he could use that to, to obtain information for his cases from them, whether that information was true or not. Mm-hmm. Yeah. This guy's a giant dog turd. Yeah, that's an insult to dog turds. Yeah, I have no words. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I better just words. Yeah. I better just continue. Yep. Because he hasn't been formally charged with anything. Yet. Okay. Anyway. In a 2016 affidavit, a former homicide detective with the KCK police department analyzed Golubsky's work

on this case. So as part of their investigation, they had this KCK police officer kind of, or detective go over the thing like, hey, in your professional opinion, what do you think of the job he did on this case? The detective wrote a 17 page, and he called the investigation grossly deficient. Mm-hmm. He essentially said there was very little investigation actually done here, and when it was done,

it was done poorly and not in accordance with police practices. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. He basically said this case was a big deal. It was a double murder.

Yeah. You needed more evidence and information to back up these two eyewitness accounts. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of the eyewitnesses, turns out there's a lot more there, too. Okay. So let's start with Nico Quinn, who was Danielle's cousin.

She was the one who initially didn't ID Lamonte in that photo array, but later called Golubski up and was like, yeah, it was number three. Here's what she has since said in the affidavits. As soon as she got to court that day, she saw Lamonte and knew he was not the shooter. He was too tall and his ears were too big. Is that really the Kristen Pitts story. The second I read that, I was like, oh my God, if I'm ever wrongfully convicted of a crime, this is what they'll say.

They'll get one look at me and be like, too tall, ears like satellite dishes. I also want to say for the record, as a fellow big-eared person, I've seen pictures of Lamonte. I don't think his ears look that big. Well, and you do not have big ears, so. Don't you lie to me. I also want to say for the record, Brandy likes to lie to me about the size of my ears. She's like, oh, what?

Oh, no, they're fine. They're normal. Then the other day, I was, she was doing my hair. I had my head back, getting it washed. And then when I sat up, she starts cracking up. Why? I don't know. I hadn't said anything funny.

Nothing had happened. Then she's like, oh, like a kiddie pool's worth of water fell out of your ear clearly the evidence shows that my ears are big anyway hopefully they're the perfect size for your giant head thank you so much. I really mean it from the bottom of my heart. Anyway. All I'm saying is, when I saw that sentence, he was too tall and his ears were too big, I was like, oh my god.

I can relate. Poor LaMonte. Poor Kristen. So, Nico Quinn says when she went to Tara Moorhead, the prosecuting attorney, because, you know, it's not like she went there, saw Lamont wasn't the real shooter, and then just shut up. She actually went to the prosecuting attorney and shared her concerns. Yeah.

Twice. Yeah. she was like you've got the wrong guy now here's a quote from her affidavit miss moorhead dismissed my statement and told me that i could be held in contempt and go to jail and have my children taken away Oh my fucking God. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. So. No, you just go right along with this. It's, yeah. Ugh.

Horrible. This case is fucking horrible, Kristen. Yeah. And I mean. And I'm blaming it all on you. Yeah. I mean, I just, I feel terrible for her because then, yeah, what mother would be like, okay, I guess I'm going to get my kids taken away. I don't know.

It's just, it's horrible, horrible, horrible. So, but that's not all. Nico Quinn's mother, Josephine, also witnessed the crime that day. She was not called to the witness stand. But when she got there and saw Lamonte, she was also like, no, that's not the guy. So she also took her concerns to the prosecution. This is what drives me fucking nuts. Because it's not like a case where everyone did the wrong thing and everyone shut up and nobody knew the real.

There were people saying, no, this is wrong. This is not the person. People were doing what they should have done and the people in power yeah okay so she took her concerns to the prosecution and here's what she said in her affidavit miss moore had told me it was too late for her to do anything that the jury was deliberating it was in the hands of the jury. Oh my gosh. Mm-hmm. And I also want to say that, for the record, both these women signed affidavits saying this in the 90s.

Oh my gosh. I think like 1996, 1997. I wonder if this was tied to his attempt for a new trial. I don't know, but I assume. So they wanted the truth to come out sooner rather than later. You know, again, they, they say they came forward right away and then they tried to make it right. So this leaves the second eyewitness who testified, Ruby Mitchell. She was the one who identified, you know, this is a Lamont. Yes. So Jim McCloskey, who's the founder of Centurion

Ministry, who was working with Sheryl Pilot on this case, he brought up some pretty relevant points in the Casey Starr article. He was like, first of all, why didn't law enforcement talk to the niece? That seems like the step one. Yeah. And say, who's this Lamonte guy? And then go talk to that Lamonte. Yeah. According to him, Detective Golubsky only talked to Ruby Mitchell's niece a few days before the trial. Oh, my gosh. And Jim McCloskey says he's the first person to have interviewed Lamonte drain who was the lamonte she was talking about

police didn't interview him oh my gosh so there's a lot of speculation about how ruby mitchell actually came up with the last name mcintyre i want to read part of the transcript of galupski's interview with ruby mitchell the night of the murders. Yeah. This was not shared at trial. Okay. This is right after she's identified Lamonte in a photo array, and here's how it goes. Golubsky. Are you absolutely sure this is the party

who did the shooting? Mitchell. Yes. Golubsky. Who is this party? Mitchell. Lamonte. Golubsky.

Do you know his last name? Mitchell. Yes. Golubski. Do you know his last name? Mitchell. Yes. Golubski. What is it? Mitchell. McIntyre. Golubski.

How do you know this party? Mitchell. Because he used to talk to my niece. So to me, that says she was obviously fed that last night. Yeah. And she was confused. Yeah. Yeah.

Ugh. Here's another thing. You look like a puddle right now. Ugh. This case is disgusting. Your shoulders are like as far down as I've ever seen them. Ugh. This is horrible.

This is a comedy podcast. Why are you guys laughing? Yeah, you do. Are we all having fun? Do we all want to move to KCK now? Oh, Lord. Okay. So, again, in the trial, prosecuting attorney and Detective Golubsky both talked about these various sources who named Lamonte McIntyre as the killer.

The investigation showed there was nothing in the police files to show that these various sources actually exist. Nothing in the police files. They just made it up. I don't think we can legally say that but allegedly they allegedly could we use common sense yeah could we uh yeah i mean this is this is why i know i always bring back everything to journalism but like this is why you aren't supposed to rely on anonymous sources a lot, because it's just too tempting. It is too tempting

to get sloppy or, God forbid, make shit up. Mm-hmm. But wait, there's more! Oh, God. Remember all that stuff about Golubsky being a huge creep? Yep. Okay, in

2011, Ruby Mitchell signed an affidavit saying that during their drive to the police station, Golubsky being a huge creep? Yep. Okay, in 2011, Ruby Mitchell signed an affidavit saying that during their drive to the police station, Golubsky made some comments that she found pretty disturbing. He started complimenting her figure, telling her she was pretty, asking if she liked to date white men,

and telling her that he liked to date black women. So that obviously made her uncomfortable. Ugh. Freaked her out. She was really nervous about his motives. She said she wondered, was he going to arrest me for solicitation? Was he going to try to offer me money for sex?

You know, she was uncomfortable. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, he's such a creep. Yeah. So, for the record, none of that happened. But I think it's really important.

Here's this key witness, and she felt really uncomfortable and threatened around the lead detective. Yeah. So, the new investigation also brought up information about the more likely killer, you know, the one people generally thought actually did these killings. So as I said before, most people, including most of the victims' families, had a pretty good hunch about who did it. Both of the victims were struggling with drug problems, and according to the new investigation, there was a rumor at the time of the murders that Danielle Quinn had stolen drugs from a known drug dealer. The drug dealer, of course, had an enforcer. The enforcer was 5'7", and again, I'm quoting, he wore his hair in French braids.

I can't handle that. That can't be right right not be right i imagine the real murderer coming out and just being like for the record i was not wearing french braids for the record they were cornrows definitely not french braids. How dare you? So the man's name, who they suspect, is Neil Edgar Jr., a.k.a. Monster. Monster? Mm-hmm. That's why I don't want to offend him about this hairstyle stuff.

Oh, God. If you're wondering where he is right now, he's in prison for murder. Oh, okay. Sorry, the look on your face right now he's in prison for murder oh okay i'm sorry the look on your face right now um so he shot someone in the head and then lit their body on fire fuck yep he put it in a truck lit the whole thing on fire nice guy um I'm really concerned about this case because it's local. I know. And there's a lot of people involved. I actually got really nervous about this one last night just because I feel like my safe zone is more in, like, the cases that happened in the 1920s and everyone involved is dead.

But this one, I'm kind of like. Yeah, you had to pick a current one. I need to pick one where people live like... Five miles from here! Where people are walking distance. Jesus Christ. People are like, where do they record this podcast? Nowhere.

Secret bunker. You'll never find it. We're actually in Portland, Oregon. Yes. Two people have come forward and said in affidavits that Neil Edgar Jr. did these murders. And it looks like Donyell was the intended target and Donald, you know, was just unlucky. Yeah. And I do want to say again, just because immediately after the murders, it's not like the victim's families were trying to be quiet about their loved one's drug problems.

It's not like they were. Yeah. So, Donyell's father told Golubsky, the detective, my son is not hanging out with good people. He said, you know, bad, bad people. So. Did they look into Leroy Brown? Bad. Bad.

Bad. brown. Bad. Bad. Baddest man in the whole big town. It's just so frustrating because to me it does not sound like it would have been that

hard to find the real killer. When everyone's being so honest with you. Yes. Oh my gosh. There were other witnesses to the crime. So, what? Alicia. Yeah, what? Did Lamonte McIntyre do something?

Did he piss off the wrong person? Or is there... Oh, we'll get to that. Okay. And that is bad. Okay. Yeah, because that is the natural question. Yeah. Okay, we'll get to that. Okay. And that is bad. Okay. Yeah, because that is the natural question. Yeah.

Okay, we'll get to it. Okay. So another witness to the... Was that the ESPN noise you just made? ESPN? What do you mean? Like the sports center? ASMR?

No, the sports center. You went like... That's the Sports Center. How long have you known me and you think I know the ESPN? I love it so much. You're like, excuse me, do you mean ASMR or whatever the fuck you said? ASMR. That's how little you know about ASMR.

I just assumed you've like glommed together weird letters. No, why would I know that? That is like the last thing I know. Under no circumstances have I ever made the ESPN noise I'm pretty sure I've never heard it yes you have how?

okay like now I've heard it? listen I'm not one of those cool girls who's like, let's watch the game. No. I'm always like, is this still on? It's been four hours. These guys haven't moved much. I don't get it.

Oh, God. All that said, I love the showallas cowboys cheerleaders making the norman is embarrassed for me we're the only two people in this house and he walks in on me watching that and he's like oh my god it's like he was he's like why did i marry this person if i had any idea that she watched this stupid reality show oh my god i've seen every episode more than once oh no it's true And now you told all 12 of our listeners. Listen, my family already knows, so now your family knows. No, that's not true.

You and I have both had at least three people who are not related to us compliment us on the show. That's correct. Thank you, Danielle Golan. We could name all of them and it wouldn't take any time at all okay so the other witness to the crime was stacy quinn she was never interviewed by police because why would you interview a witness to a crime jesus that might take time so um but despite that, Golubsky seems to have known her pretty well. According to her aunt's affidavit, I almost tried to get fancy and say aunt. According to her aunt's affidavit, Stacey had been having a sexual relationship with Golubsky going back to the 80s when she was 16 or 17.

Yeah. Yeah. I actually wrote in my notes, yeah. Because I was like, I'm going to have to have some reaction, and it can't be just a string of curse words. So, in 1996, when Lamonte was trying to get a new trial, Stacy testified that he didn't do it. Again, too tall, different facial features. She didn't point out the ears but we're all thinking but the judge didn't believe her no so by the time this amazing article came out in the kansas

kansas city star it was 2016 lamonte mcintyre was 20 i'm sorry lamonte mcintyre was 40 years old he'd been in prison for 22 years. Cheryl Pilot had put forth an amended motion for exoneration. It was the culmination of seven years worth of investigation. Oh my gosh. Amazingly, Lamonte still had hope. I'm going to read to you just the end of the article. It says,

I know everything is going to work out the way it's meant to work out, he told the star. I'm just biding my time and trying to be patient. He is certain that one day he will be free. I have no doubt about that, he said. And he was right. No. I don't know how he was that hopeful after all he'd been through. No kidding.

You're crying. I am. So in October 2017, Wyandotte County held a hearing to determine whether Lamonte should be exonerated. By that point, Cheryl Pilot and Centurion Ministries had worked on his case for eight years. Everyone expected the hearing to last a week. But just two days into the hearing, Wyandotte County District Attorney Mark Dupree announced that they were vacating the case against Lamonte. It was completely unexpected. Oh my gosh.

Everyone burst into cheers. He wept. By that point, he was 41. I've got goosebumps. I do too. He'd been in prison for 23 years. He'd spent more of his life in prison than out of it for a crime he didn't commit. Oh my gosh.

And the pictures of that day are incredible. There's video of him. The videos that I saw starts with his mom. And, you know, she's yeah i i just can't imagine um and he was being interviewed and by a bunch of different reporters obviously there were a lot of people around because this case kind of became a big deal a lot of people were looking at it which i'm sure is why they dropped the charges two days into it. But then like the video just shows him seeing his mom and hugging his mom for the first time as a free man. And it's just, it's so sweet. And you know, she,

she supported him the whole time. Never doubted him. Yeah. You know, she supported him the whole time. Never doubted him. Yeah. Ugh. Ugh. And so afterward he said, I'm here thanking God. I'm thanking everybody who supported me and has been there for me.

It feels good. I feel good. I'm happy. Ugh. Poor Lamontae. Now I'm going to bring us down again. Oh, God. But then we're going to do a where are they now and that's gonna be that's gonna be happier all right i can't take much more christian i can't take more of this comedy podcast this is the worst fucking comedy podcast i've ever heard

we're gonna go in and rate ourselves i'm gonna be, these two sucked. I came for the comedy. I ended up crying. I ended up crying and saying, I'm never going to Kansas City, Kansas. So these are the two questions that always got me about this case. And it sounds like they're kind of the ones that tripped you up. this case and it sounds like they're kind of the ones that tripped you up yeah which was like okay you know did did they really just try to go find a black guy named lamonte and if so like why why him and then the bigger question is of course about this five five person photo array

why did it contain Lamonte, Lamonte's brother, and his first cousin? Yeah. That's so weird. Yeah. Why? And apparently also,

photo arrays usually have more photos than that. I didn't realize that, but I read that they're supposed to be more like six to ten. So you've got a super small group of photos and three of them are from the same family. Hmm. Hmm.

It seems odd until you hear this story. Oh, God. So in October 2017, this was just before he was released. Um, like I said, the investigation turned up a lot of information about Detective Golubsky sexually exploiting black women. And it looks like Lamonte's mom, Rosie McIntyre, was one of them. She put forth in an affidavit that years before the murders, he forced her to perform oral sex and said he would arrest her and her boyfriend if she didn't do it. Oh, my gosh. He told her. And, of course, you know, and her boyfriend if she didn't do it. Oh my gosh. He told her, and of course, you know, she did it.

She didn't have a choice. He told her to come to the office and that was where he forced her. Ugh. She says another officer walked in on them while it was happening and just walked out. So it was like no big deal to them because it was probably happening all the fucking time. Yeah. That's disgusting. It's absolutely disgusting oh galupski then said he would protect and support her if she continued to do whatever he wanted sexually oh my god again this is all according to her affidavit

uh but she really didn't want to he kept kept calling her, calling her, calling her. She moved and changed her number. And it sounds like she felt like she was sort of able to get away from him until her son was arrested. So in her affidavit, she said, and I'm just going to read to you, I have often wondered if my failure to comply with Golubsky's demands for additional sexual favors caused him to dislike me and my family. I do believe that if I had complied with his request for me to become his woman, that my son would likely not be in prison today.

That's fucking horrible. I struggle with how to use my words here. For a number of reasons one because this is all alleged stuff I just want to say I believe her this to me makes a whole

hell of a lot more sense than just some random thing it sure does so where are they now? thank god let's get on some uppers here pass me the Yeah. So where are they now? Thank God. Let's get on some uppers here. Pass me the, I don't know, what's an upper?

I don't do drugs. I don't do drugs either. Pass me the PCP. The strongest thing I can give you is like a fresco with a shot of tequila in it. That's as wild as we get around here so stacy quinn the woman who witnessed the crime but was never called to the witness stand in the original trial um she was shot to death 13 times in either 2000 or 2001 okay i'm sorry this is not funny what what did i say i think she was probably shot 13 times to death i don't think she was shot to death you don't know. She was killed.

Sprang back up. You're right. I'm so sorry. This is not funny. Really? Is it not funny? Oh, God. So just to be clear, you're laughing at the murder victim, not at me?

No. Oh, God. Oh, God. No, so if I'm going to say it the correct way, yes, she was shot 13 times to death. There was nothing weird or freaky happening here okay uh golubsky investigated her murder of course he did yep speaking of roger golubsky uh the detective on the case worked for the kansas city police department for 35 years before retiring as a chief in, I believe, 2010. After he retired, he joined the police department in Edwardsville. He retired from that force in 2016.

I think I read an article that literally said he retired from that job to spend more time with his family. Great. Last November, Wyandotte County District Attorney Mark Dupree, who is the first black elected district attorney in Kansas, announced that he is investigating Roger Golubski for preying on black women.

Good. And if and when that goes to trial, we will be covering that. We will be covering it. Stay tuned for lots of laughs. Tara Moorhead, the prosecuting attorney in Lamonte's trial, is now a federal prosecutor for the state of Kansas. Last December, she made headlines again for threatening a witness and belatedly disclosing evidence that could have helped the defendant. Neat.

Yep. neat yep judge dexter burdett who proceeded over the trial and never disclosed his previous romantic relationship with the prosecuting attorney is still a judge hmm also neat why don't people like take up painting or like some like after something like this why don't you go you know what maybe maybe i have other skills. Oh, yikes. Have you seen George W. Bush's paintings? Yes. He's quite good.

Rosie McIntyre, Lamontae's mom, never doubted his innocence. When a reporter, and keep in mind, everything she's gone through. When a reporter asked her if she could forgive the people involved in Lamonte's investigation and prosecution, she said, I can never hate. I can never have animosity. Ugh. Yeah. Wow. Sandra Newsome,

whose son, Danielle Quinn, was one of the victims. She always knew Lamonte didn't do it. She's the person who made us cry. Yes. Remember, she vowed she wouldn't i thought that was you that was me for making me listen to this fucking horrible case

i've noticed just seemed really um seemed like things were going well in your life you need to bring me down i was like this this can't this can't be for too long it's been months and brandy just seems happy oh god she vowed she's the one who vowed that she wouldn't visit her son's grave until lamonte was released after the announcement she said about her son's grave i will be going because now i can close the casket oh my gosh yeah lamonte mcintyre is free yay i've got goosebumps again so in the past few months he's made headlines for talking about the importance of compensating wrongfully convicted prisoners for the time they spent behind bars. I'm totally with him on that. I am too. The way I actually found out about this case was he and two other guys who I believe kind of were set free around the same time, all worked together and kind of lobbied for Kansas to change things because Kansas is one of 18 states in the nation that offers no compensation for wrongfully convicted

prisoners. And Lamonte has said he obviously wants that to change, even if it's not retroactive. Yeah. Even if it does nothing for him, he says, this is an accountability thing. Yeah. You put someone behind bars for the wrong reasons or incorrectly, the state should be held accountable. You shouldn't be let out of prison with nothing to show for the last decades of your life. Yeah. He's currently studying to be a barber. He was a barber in prison, and that's what he wants to do now.

That's awesome. Headlines Barber Academy in KCK offered him a scholarship. Shout out to them. That's awesome. That's amazing. So that's where he is now. And there was this great quote from him that I'm going to close with. He says, I want to spend the rest of my life being happy. I don't want to be bitter. That's amazing. Yeah. He's awesome. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Well, that was a horrible one, Kristen. Thank you for that. I just, the level of corruption in that. Yeah. And coupled with how hard people tried to get the right thing. To do the right thing, yes. Yeah, to do the right thing.

That's, that, everything about this infuriates me. Because the people who were trying to do the right thing weren't the people with any kind of power. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. That's, it's just deeply upsetting yeah i'm ready for some justice in all this yeah to me um lamonte mcintyre getting out of prison that's a small piece of what needs to happen yes I'm ready for some more stuff. Absolutely.

And I want him to get so much money. I know. Okay. That is what I was like. Yes. I was like, fucking Hulk Hogan got like, what, $100 million in his trial for his sex tape? Yes. And Lamonté McIntyre? They're like, so sorry.

Goodbye. Yeah. No. No. That has to change. Yeah. Ugh. And I don't know that it will. I mean. Yeah. No. No, that has to change. Yeah. Ugh. And I don't know that it will.

I mean... Yeah. That's horrible. It is. They lock you up for nothing and... Mm-hmm. Mm. Devastating.

23 years of his life. Yeah. Ugh. Mm. But he seems really happy. Yeah. I know know i've seen clips of him yes oh gosh i think that it would be it would be so difficult to have that outlook but it would be so important yeah to for the quality of your rest of your life to To choose to be happy every day and to choose not to dwell on that horrible fucking thing that happened to you. Well, and, you know, I'm glad you say that because that's probably what got him through that prison time.

Yeah. And, I mean, waiting for this group, you know, seven years of investigation. I just can't imagine. Now, obviously, they were awesome. Obviously, they took the time they needed to take. But I just can't imagine waiting and waiting and waiting. No. No.

Mm-mm. Well, I'm glad we could do this amazing episode. We need to end on an upper. Good God. Do you have anything positive to say? We need to end on an upper. Good God. Do you have anything positive to say?

I have thoroughly vetted our happy hour nacho spot and we're in the clear and we can go it and go there and enjoy it and feel no guilt about it. There's nothing worse than shame nachos. That's right. Shame nachos are the worst. You, yeah, boy. I already don't feel great about the fact that I'm just eating liquid cheese, but then you add on a potential crime. Yes. Yes.

Not good. Not good at all. Thank you for doing some investigative work there. That's what I'm here for. That's what I do. Not really. Really, I do hairs. Brandy quit her job to investigate nachos full time.

So far, she's had one case and doesn't look good. Turns out there was only really one case she needed. There was only one case. I can go back to work now. They missed you that one day at the salon. That's right. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry.

You did a good job of coming up with something positive, and I have shit on it. You know what people could do? They could go on, and they could... They're not going to want to give us a good rating after this. They're going to be so depressed. Forget how horrible and depressing this episode was. And then go to our Facebook page. Give us a like.

Please, yes. Go to wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you listen to them in Apple Podcasts or whatever Android platform offers you. I don't, I'm not really sure what happens on an Android phone. Oh, listen to you. You're so snotty. So snotty. Guys,

in case you didn't gather, Brandy has an iPhone. This whole segment is dedicated to you knowing that Brandy has an iPhone. Subscribe to us there. Leave us a rating.

Leave us a review. And then we also have a Twitter, which is let's go the number two court and we now have an instagram which is um lgtc podcast sorry i keep talking while you're talking what do you don't know about our fucking instagram i don't know anything i was just gonna brag that uh three people are following us we have three followers i am two yeah two are not one of us um and what would really be amazing is if you could just tell like three people about the podcast and tell it to them

in a scary way like kind of like those old school chain letters yeah like if you don't listen you're gonna fall into a well yeah and become sonara from the ring or whatever her name but you've got to make it personal you've got to be like my friend sandy um she didn't listen to it and her teeth got yellow yeah and so her foot fell off okay this is how i want it to happen I want you to tell three people and then I want you to tell those three people that they have to tell three people so it's going to be like that movie where Kevin Spacey had the burned face

only nobody's going to get stabbed to death too soon we can't talk about Kevin Spacey he's too creepy I thought we were trying to end on a positive note you bring up Kevin Spacey I'm sorry hey let's talk about Harvey Weinstein I thought we were trying to end on a positive note. You bring up Kevin Spacey. I'm sorry.

Hey, let's talk about Harvey Weinstein now. Anyway, maybe join us next week when we will... Be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. Okay, I feel like we picked that up. It's good. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia.

So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got the vast majority of my info from the fantastic Kansas City Star article, No Justice by Eric Adler. And by the way, I didn't do it any justice. So please go read that one. As well as other articles from the Kansas City Star and KCTV5. I got my info from the court transcripts and an article in the Oklahoman. I think that's the name of it. And some amazing back issues of the Salina Journal. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. And in this case, you could go be like super cool microfiche on the Celina Journal.

Go to your local library now. Be Ashley Judd in that one movie where she does. What movie was that? Why am I tacking on extra stuff? I don't know. Sorry. I just got to get the last word in.