Let's Go To Court! - 108: A YouTube Lawsuit & the Disappearance of Lizabeth Wilson

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

In 2013, Matt Hoss created an exceptionally cringey YouTube video. He cast himself as the cool guy. He cast a hot young woman to act alongside him. He wrote a script where he gave himself all the good comebacks, and made the woman swoon for him. His video got millions of views. Then one day, YouTubers Ethan and Hila Klein of H3H3 productions created their own video reacting to Matt’s video. They gave him a bit of a roast, but ended on a respectful note. There was just one problem. Matt didn’t think their video was very funny. Then Brandi tells us about a case that took place in the summer of 1974. On her way home from the pool, thirteen-year-old Lizabeth Wilson cut through the parking lot of Shawnee Mission East High School. She was never seen again. Suspicion circled around the school’s janitor, John Henry Horton, but without concrete evidence, the case grew cold.    And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Bold Guy vs Parkour Girl,” Matt Hoss Zone on Youtube  “WE WON THE LAWSUIT!” h3h3Productions on Youtube “The Big, the BOLD, the Beautiful (Re-Upload)” h3h3 Productions on Youtube Matt Hosseinzadeh v Ethan Klein and Hila Klein court docouments “Judge sides with YouTubers Ethan and Hila Klein in copyright lawsuit,” by Anthony Ha for techcrunch.com In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “State v. Horton” findlaw.com “Conviction is upheld in 1974 murder of Prairie Village girl” by Tony Rizzo, The Kansas City Star “40 years later, conviction upheld on teen’s killer” by Rick Dean, The Topeka Capital-Journal “Judge Denies New Trial In Killing Of Kansas Girl” by Kelley Hoskins, Fox2Now St. Louis “Chloroform killer of Prairie Village girl gets chance at release from prison” by Tony Rizzo, The Kansas City Star “Parole denied for Shawnee Mission school janitor who killed Prairie Village girl” by Tony Rizzo, The Kansas City Star

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about a YouTube YouTube lawsuit And I'll be talking about the disappearance of

Elizabeth Wilson Brandy Yeah All I have to say about this week's episode Is in your face In your face Because I made a comment about it That sounded like a boring topic

A comment? Okay dear listeners let me tell you some facts so a while ago i was trying to brainstorm and you know i don't know you know this but there's no bad ideas in brainstorming i was trying to brainstorm some ideas for topics for future episodes that we could have people vote on and i was like oh wouldn't it be cool if maybe we did a theme where we did all YouTube lawsuits? And I fell asleep while she was talking about it. She literally pretended to snore while I was mid-sentence. And I was like, oh, well, I think it'd be cool.

And you know what? I'm doing one anyway. I'm so happy for you. And you're going to be riveted. And that is the beauty of our friendship and this podcast. By the way, guys guys this is an after dark episode yes it is in case you couldn't already tell by our zing and pep that's right should we talk about why it's an after dark episode yeah let's talk about it let's chiefs won the super

bowl okay so the parade was um like the big know, celebration parade was during the time that we usually would record. And there was no way Brandy could have gotten to my house. It would have been very difficult. Pandemonium. That's right. Also, she didn't want to go. I didn't want to go to the parade. It was very cold.

It was freezing cold. Yeah. But it was a good time. Yeah. So Kristen and Norm went to the parade. I stayed home and watched it on TV. And then that evening. What happened, Brandy?

The parade came to me. I was just minding my own business, hanging out at the Post Malone concert, which was amazing, by the way. All of a sudden, there, just a few feet from me, were Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelsey. It was amazing. I was a little bitter because I had stayed in the cold for hours just to get a glimpse of them from afar. Should we get into it? Yeah.

You usually like to plug the Discord at the top, or the Patreon at the top. You want to do that? Yeah, let me be a pro. Yeah. Hey, you guys. Wow, are you really feeling the effects? Patreon at the top. You want to do that? Yeah, let me be a pro. Yeah. Hey, you guys. Wow. Are you really feeling the effects? Hey, is this episode not enough for you? Are you? Would you

love more of this? I must have more. That's my impression of everyone listening right now. Of this witty banter. That's not at all awkward or weird. Well, then Kristen's going to tell you how to get it. Here's how you do it. You go to Patreon.com, LGTC Podcast, backslash. You've got the slash in there somewhere.

You figure out where. You sign up at the $5 level to get bonus episodes, and you get to join our Discord. At the $7 level, you get all that, plus a sticker our lovely autographs and a monthly video from us and let me tell you the videos will not disappoint you unless you're my dad who says that i am not as comfortable on camera as brandy is leave it to dp okay here we go yeah it away. Try not to fall asleep, Brandy.

It's so good. Okay. I think you're going to enjoy it. Is there a murder? No. I'm sorry, not everything can end in death. Does anybody set their own snake on fire? In August of 2013, Matt Haas, a.k.a. The Bold Guy, uploaded a brilliant video to YouTube.

It was entitled Bold Guy vs. Parkour Girl. It was a work of art, really. Was it? Yes, a social commentary, if you will, in my humble opinion. Just a real pleasure to watch. Naturally, thanks to its brilliance, the video quickly accumulated millions of views. Really? Yes.

Wow. You're going to be even more stunned when you hear. I know. What's in the video? Oh, great stuff. I've already told you it's a work of art, Brandy. Okay. I will now describe it for you in excruciating detail.

Oh, good. Picture it. Okay. We open outside. We're a beautiful, very physically fit woman who looks to be. Parkour girl. Yes, parkour girl. Very good, Brandy. You're like way ahead. Who looks to be in her like maybe 20s is in workout gear.

She's stretching outside of what appears to be a very industrial looking apartment building maybe i don't know maybe it's a parking garage anyway she's wearing tennis shoes and shorts and a low cut tank top over an orange sports bra she stretches her arms you know she flips into a handstand you know normal Yeah, that's normal. Okay, so picture this. As she is mid-handstand, a man approaches her. Bold guy. The description of the video describes him as confident and funny.

Let's see, shall we? Yeah. The man, as you so aptly pointed out, is the bold guy. And he's wearing tennis shoes and very bright white socks and basketball shorts and just the coolest top you've ever seen in your life. Top.

Yeah. I don't call it a top if it's on a guy. Get a load of this top, Brandy. Okay. It's maroon. It's sleeveless. It it a top if it's on a guy. Get a load of this top, Brandy. Okay. It's maroon. It's sleeveless. It has a hood on it. Ooh.

And the pattern on it is what I would describe as off-brand Ed Hardy. Oh, good. Okay. Okay. Are we all turned on? Yes. I thought so. So he's just kind of a normal looking guy.

I would say maybe in his 40s, maybe late 30s. Okay. So he comes up to this very hob woman who is mid handstand. And she's facing him in this handstand. So naturally, she comes out of the handstand. This could be hard to explain. By going spread eagle in midair. Naturally. Bringing her feet down to the ground

but spread super far apart so that her ass is on full display. Excellent. How'd it look? Amazing! I told you. I mean, come on. She holds that pose ass in the air, hands flat on the ground, legs spread

wide for what feels like 15 years. And Matt, a.k.a. the bold guy, is watching this whole thing and he says, You have excellent form. See if you can go deeper. Ew, I hate that already. Brandy, buckle up. Oh, no. Deeper where? Norm Parkour girl, just like you

Becomes a little indignant She stands up, brushes her hair out of her face And says, what are you, some sort of creep? And he smirks He's got very expressive eyebrows And just like The most punchable face you've ever seen in your life. Just so smug. And he says, only if you

insist. Ew. Ew. What about you? And she says, what about me? Yeah. And he says, are you some kind of attention whore? he says, are you some kind of attention whore? She says, who are you calling an attention whore? He says, I'm asking because you keep sticking your ass up in the air. Wow. I mean, obviously this is all scripted.

And she says, I have the right to exercise here if i want it's kind of like the you know the jesse spano angry feminist tone of like there's only one way to be a feminist and it's upset and angry and kind of like this and he goes of course you do and i have a right to approach and talk to you. I hate this so much. Oh, oh. It's atrocious. It is. And here we go.

It's about to get worse. So this is when things get very serious. Parkour girl approaches the bold guy. She says, and I have the right to tell you to get lost. And she gives him a shove. Oh. But bold guy is undeterred. Oh boy. He smirks even harder. He says, why are you getting physical? Oh my god, this is so cringy. I'm

really cringing. I'm so uncomfortable. Do you think no one's going to listen to this? They're going to hear it. No, no, no. I'm telling you. You're painting a picture, and it is making me so uncomfortable. I would love to hear from people if they think the video is worse than me describing it. Because I think there is nothing worse than this video.

Okay. So, you know, he says, why are you getting physical? By this point, she's really miffed. She's got her back to him. She's doing an arm stretch. So he says. She's gone back to her stretches now. Well, yeah, sure.

Okay. So he says, is it because you think I won't hit you back? Oh, no. And she's very shocked. She spins around mid-stretch and says, are you saying you'd hit a woman? And he says, I would never hit a lady. Ew! I hate this so much!

I'm so uncomfortable! I'm so uncomfortable. I'm getting goosebumps. She says, I don't have to act like a lady simply because you expect me to. And he says, no, no, you ready for it? I'm not. You ready? I'm not. Then don't expect me to act like a gentleman.

So guys, things are super tense now, okay? How long is this video? It's only five minutes, but it feels like forever. Doesn't it feel like I've been talking for forever? Yes. Okay. Doesn't it feel like I've been talking for forever? Yes. Yeah.

Okay, I wish we had video right now. Because Brandy, like, you are curled up in a ball. Yes, I hate it. Norman can't even look at me. Oh. Okay, so guys. Things are super tense now. Parkour girl takes a few steps toward bold guy.

She's got her fist up. She says, how would you like me to shove this up your ass? Okay. Okay. And he says, he says, I'm not into fist fucking, but thank you for the offer. Oh, no! This is the worst thing ever. This is so bad. Is this worse than murder?

Do you wish I would have covered it with murder? I wish you would have talked about murder. I've never been this uncomfortable hearing about a murder. Oh, God. You guys ready for this story to get kicked up a notch oh no okay then and this is a totally natural progression of this storyline that we have set up for us uh-huh parkour girl says you want me don't you know what no oh i hate it and he says i haven't decided yet oh and she says yeah you do oh no you're still here talking to me. Then, she walks around him.

She puts her hand on his shoulder. She squeezes. She says, strong shoulders. She circles around to the front. She slides her hand down his chest. No. She squeezes hand down his chest. No! She squeezes firm chest.

She circles around him again, pausing right beside him. She looks down at his ass, cups it, squeezes it, and says, tight butt. That means you have a powerful thrust, am I right?

Ugh! Ew! And he says, I feel so objectified. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

But parkour girl, she wants the bold guy so bad. Real bad. She says, you can have me. And he says, really? At this point, they're inches from one another. And she says, Brandi, can you handle this? I clearly cannot. You look like you are going to toss your cookies. I hate it. I hate it so much.

We're not even really close to the end. What? It's going to wrap up soon-ish, but I mean... Oh, no! There are miles to go before we sleep. That's what I'm saying.

The video or your case? Well, no, I'm... the video's about halfway through. Oh my God! But don't worry, the dialogue stopped, so I'm just gonna like, you know, everybody be cool. I can't handle this one. You two turned on? I'm so uncomfortable. Is that the problem?

Okay, so now they're just inches from one another and you know she said you can have me yeah and this time she says if you can catch me i knew she was gonna say that but first you have to catch me and then she goes and like jumps on the building and like does an aerial. Brandy, have you seen this video before? Is this like on your most watched videos? Yeah. Every morning? Yeah. But bold guy, he's too cool.

He says, I don't chase girls. She says, catch me and I'll let you do whatever you want to me. So this guy wrote, definitely wrote this, right? Yes. Yes. He wrote the dialogue where he has the coolest things to say, and where this 20-something-year-old, super hot, fit woman is just dying to get banged by him oh i'm sure it's a situation he finds himself in or ass fist him i'm not really sure well i guess we'll find out in a minute

so she's just told him to recap for everyone i'll let you do whatever you want to and he says that's quite a generous offer they stand perfectly still for a moment and then parkour girl leans in she puts her hand on bold guy's chest

it looks like they might kiss then she runs up his chest and flips over oh you wish no kiss. Then she runs up his chest and flips over. Oh, you wish. No. Instead she says, catch me you pussy. And she slaps him across the face.

And she runs. Oh, does she run. Oh, Norman. This is terrible. The bold guy follows. They run across the street. Who is recording this?

I mean, it's pretty professionally done. I've gotta say, for as stupid as this is... Is it on 2013? Yeah. That's real late for YouTube cringe. Well, we'll get into that. Okay, go ahead. You know, early YouTube, I could maybe see,

people are learning how to make videos. This is like a new thing, but this is very late. But I'm telling you, it's shot well. As far as like... There's some production value to it. Yeah, I believe it. Now, it's the most horrifying thing I've ever seen, and I hated it.

The way you're describing it, it sounds like the worst video on YouTube. Yeah. I mean, it might be. Might be. The top comment. I was going to say this, but okay. The top comment is, this video gave me cancer.

Okay. Oh, no. So they run across the street. They climb ledges. They leap over handrails hardcore parkour absolute sexy parkour they jump down from high places techno music plays in the background that i believe this guy wrote himself what made you think well we'll get to it yeah because you know you gotta have credits on a five minute video they run and they run with parkour girl in the lead but bold guy is close behind but alas

parkour girl has to stop she'sed. She turns and he's there. But wait! She jumps again to a lower level of this weird apartment complex slash parking garage thing. The chase continues, Brandy. They run. They leap. They climb. But then, parkour girl runs around a corner

and somehow bold guy's already there. And he's leaning casually against a wall. You predicted it. You knew exactly what was going to happen. Randy, you could make one of these movies. No!

They lock eyes. He crosses his arms. He's bested her. She turns to run away. but somehow he's there too. She runs right into his arms. She's shocked. Her mouth falls open. How did you do that? She asks. But instead of answering, he kisses her. Ew. answering he kisses ew he says that's for slapping me he kisses her again he says that's for calling me a pussy and by the way these kissing sounds in this video are so loud oh gosh i feel like they were like sweetened up in post-production get ready to experience an all-new dawn valley north lexus dawn valley north lexus has temporarily

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is that all you're going to do to me? Ew! Ew! He says, what else do you want? Oh, no. And she says, you're a healthy guy. I'm sure you can think of something. Ew. Oh, my God.

He pauses. He looks off to the side and he says, Okay, I thought of something. She says, What? And he says, Catch me and I'll tell you. And he takes off. Parkour Girl is stunned. She looks into the camera and says,

Can you believe this guy? Then she looks off in the direction into the camera and says, Can you believe this guy? Then she looks off in the direction of bold guy and says, Hold on! And she runs after him. The end! Oh, bravo! Oh, I hated it so much! So good!

Is it over? Is it finally over? Listen, I think we're all pretty turned on. Oh, so much cringe. Naturally, we get to the credits. May surprise you

that our good pal, the bold guy, was the writer, director, cinematographer, editor, and music composer for this film this got a millions of views millions

of views a millions a millions I'm sorry poor Norman over here is just getting a millions of views dear god

is it making you rethink your entire YouTube career no I'm just what if we'd met when we'd met we'd just done some shit like this it's just crazy what gets yeah what blows up and what doesn't

why do you think this blew up because it's so cringy maybe because of how cringy it is you think people were only watching it for the cringe well okay so nobody was watching it because it was amazing. No, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. Here's my other question, though. When did these millions of views happen? Because if people were making fun of the video, and then it got millions of views... No, no, no.

It got millions of views, then it was made fun of on a much wider scale. Wow, so it had millions of views already, okay. Yes. Yikes, yeah. I have no idea what would cause so many people to watch that. The way you described it. Oh, you think that if you watched it, it would be way better than how I described it? Probably not. No, I bet it's worse. It's probably worse. I bet it's worse. Okay. So like I said, this video came out and it

was a huge success. Millions of people watched it. Two of the people who watched it were Ethan and Hila Klein. Ethan and Hila are a married couple and they have a huge YouTube show called H3H3 Productions. Have you heard of it? No. Okay. I've watched a bunch of their stuff. Norman, you've watched a bunch of their stuff.

Yeah. So their show has evolved over the years, but back in the day, on their second channel, which was smaller than their main channel, they used to do a lot of funny reaction videos. So, you know, they'd take a popular video on YouTube, they'd play a clip of it, react to it, play a little more, react to that. All right.

Right. Now, I personally don't see what there is to make fun of about the video i just described but somehow ethan and gila managed so i'm gonna quickly go over their video first you get in their intro and right off the bat ethan was like hey guys this matt haas guy we've been watching his stuff for a while and okay i think it's funny because he says kind of what you've already said he goes he really comes from the older days of youtube when it was cringe tube this guy is the king of cringe tube yeah this guy is a trip so did you feel like there was more cringy stuff back in the day oh yeah yeah i guess that people were learning how to make videos and what works and what doesn't.

It was all new and exciting, and people just put whatever up there, and there's a lot of cringe. I've got tons of cringe on Gaming Historian. You do? On your old? Watch my old Gaming Historian episodes. They're terrible. This is not meant to plug your little show, Norm.

Oh, sorry. Go on over to Gaming Historian and check it out. Yeah, and if you want some other stuff, check out Patreon.com. Also, I sell T-shirts on my website. No, I love Norman's old videos because the lighting's bad

and he's so, he's cute as a button. Yeah, because he looks like he's 12, Kristen. Yeah. You sound so creepy right now. No, I don't. I love 12-year-old Norman. No.

I look like I was 8, not 12. Yeah, I'm really wondering, like, at what point did you just all of a sudden one day look like a man? Yes, when he was 25, he all of a sudden looked like a man. I was going to say, because you shared that picture in our Discord of him when he's 17. Yeah. You're 17 in the... Was it my senior it was your senior portrait and people were like this cannot be a senior portrait yeah no but i have always

said that you had you looked like a baby for years and years and years and all of a sudden you turned 25 and that day you became a man it's's getting steamy in here guys. You can do whatever you want to me but you'll have to catch me. I'm sorry I'm just picking up some lines I learned recently. Is this not sexy? So Ethan and Hila Chris says that every day when she rolls up the treadmill.

Yeah but I'm on a treadmill. And Norm's like yeah I just can't reach you. I don't know. Can't go all the way down to the basement. So Ethan and Hila talk for a while. They play a bit of the video and they get to that

part where Parkour Girl switches from a handstand into spread eagle and just down to having her ass in the air. And Ethan's really funny ethan goes oh just spreading my asshole on the street like you do and ela i mean if you've never watched them ela's much more shy she's a little more introverted so you know ethan starts to kind of make fun so she doesn't shine as much in the videos no i'm not i'm not giving a DP commentary on this. I'm just saying, I'm just like trying to help you understand their video dynamics. All right.

So Ethan kind of starts to make fun of this woman for spreading her ass on the street, like National Geographic style. Yeah. But he was like, well, you know, I mean, the really weird thing is that Matt is the one who writes this stuff. He's the one who's setting up this whole ridiculous scenario with this woman. And Ethan's like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm putting the blame on the wrong person here. So they play some more. They make fun of Matt's super cool sleeveless hooded top. Yeah.

And they're laughing. At one point, they describe the video as like the crappy beginning of porn. Oh, yeah. Which you put up with because you're going to see porn. You're going to see some banging. But yeah, you got to get through like the plot set up. So they make fun of how Matt wrote himself to be so cool. And he gave himself the best lines and made this woman.

Well, I mean, compared to the woman, like he tries to make. Yeah. Now, granted, the woman, like, he tries to make. Yeah. Now, granted, the whole thing is awful. Yeah. But, I mean, he's, in this script, clearly he's the one who bests her. Right. Every time. And she's just kind of, like, annoying and trying to stand up for herself.

But she just can't because he's so sexy. You know, you've seen a guy in a sleeveless hooded top. I can't control myself. It's David. That first date, you were like, God damn. You've seen a guy in a sleeveless hooded top. I can't control myself. It's David. That first date you were like, God damn. They get to the part where she says, if you catch me, you can do whatever you want to me. And Ethan's like, what does that even mean?

Can you stick a carrot up her ass? I don't even understand. What is that? They talk about how strangely popular the video was. You know, this thing had millions of views. So they had an interesting theory. And, Norman, you've heard Ethan talk about this before, about, like, the days of jerk your little ding-dong on YouTube. Yep.

Yep. So it's like YouTube especially back then was just all kids. And so maybe kids don't have access to porn. That's as dirty as it gets. So creators would make like risque content. And like really gross

misogynistic crap like this. So anyway, Ethan calls it jerk your little ding dong YouTube. YouTube. Which if I could have it on a t-shirt absolutely better if it's sleeveless yes two more points with a hood so they're clearly making fun of the video but i want to just put it out there i don't think they were over the top mean yeah um at one point et says, I'm not saying the guy deserves hate. He's doing his own thing and I respect that.

But it's just, I find it interesting that so many people saw the world as he does. Yeah. Meaning like, I can't believe, I think it had like nine million views. Wow. When they did this video. So, you know, they get to the end of the video. They're laughing. They've made fun of it.

But again, they ended on a respectful note ethan says look say what you will but the guy puts a lot of effort into his videos he clearly plans them he's very professional and the guy cares about what he does so we goof on him but he deserves some respect and i think he even like told people hey go check out his channel if you want to see more of this stuff so that guy sues him oh what what for defamation um hold on just a second first thing bold guy saw ethan and hila's video and he reported it to youtube oh he claimed copyright Oh. He claimed copyright infringement. And YouTube took the video down.

Okay, because they played clips of his video. So, Norm, jump in. Yeah, so YouTube's copyright system doesn't follow any laws. It's kind of their own thing. Yeah, it's rogue copyright. Right. Yeah. So if somebody reports like he did, they're just going to watch H3H3's video and they're going to see, oh, look, they're playing his video in their video.

That's copyright. Yeah, we're going to remove it. Okay. But Ethan and Hila were like, copyright infringement? No, no, no. What the hell? So they sent their own notification to YouTube saying, hey, we didn't infringe on his copyright. What we did falls under fair use. Yeah.

Okay, so let's pause for a brief lesson on the law. Under U.S. law, sometimes it's okay to take short excerpts of copyrighted material and quote them verbatim or play them. and quote them verbatim or play them. But it's only okay to do that when you are offering criticism of the original work, when you're doing news reporting, when you're teaching, or when you're doing research. And even then, there are obviously extra things there. But that's broad strokes.

So if what you're doing falls under that umbrella, then you don't need anyone's permission to quote from the copyrighted material, and you don't have to pay the copyright holder so ethan and ela's argument was our reaction video falls under that umbrella we were offering criticism of matt's work we showed short clips of his work and we critiqued it yeah we didn't take his video and like upload it to our channel which has happened to Norm many times. Yeah.

We took about three minutes of his video, sliced it up, and reacted to it in our 14-minute video. Right. But Ethan and Hila were clearly wrong. So Matt did the only thing he could do. He got himself an attorney. His attorney was Tim Buckner. And Tim sent a letter to Ethan and Hila, telling them to cease and desist.

I'm sorry, I put the emphasis on the wrong syllable. Telling them to cease and desist infringing upon Matt's copyright. Asking them to sign a confidentiality agreement. What? And then he asked them to cover all of Matt's legal fees up until this point, which were about $3,700. Wow. What's up, guys?

What do we think? That's ridiculous. And I hope that they looked at Tim Buckner or whatever his second name is and said let's go to court so they they responded to YouTube and they did a counterclaim and said oh no this is we were allowed to do this this is fair use and YouTube said oh you're right and then put it back up no not that simple YouTube didn't put the video back up no okay and while they're trying to get YouTube to put their video back up no okay and while they're trying to get youtube to put their video back up they get this cease and desist right even though the video has already

been taken down at this point right but they're trying to get it back right right and that's making that's what they want them to the bold guy yeah kind of mad and also to shut up about it with the confidentiality agreement yeah what the fuck is that? So Ethan and Hila were completely uncomfortable with this. They were asking for four grand, which was like, okay, well, we have that, but what kind of precedent would that set? We do reaction videos all the time. Would everyone we've ever roasted come out of the woodwork and demand four grand? I mean, we can't afford that. That's a crazy slippery slope.

So they said no. Yeah. A while later, Matt Haas' attorney came back again. This time he was like, forget about paying any money. Forget about what we said before. Now here's what I want you to do. Put a video on your main channel promoting Bold Guy. What?

Apologize for using Bold Guy content and talk about how you respect Matt Haas as a creator. Then, then, post about it on all your social media accounts and keep it up there for two months. Also, promote Bold Guy videos on your platform. Um, no. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, that is crazy i know so i do want to pause here later we're going to get into stuff that i'm pulling from directly from the court document but a lot of this stuff comes from ethan and ela because

they've talked about it openly in their videos. So we are getting, like, their side heavily in this. But yeah, I think that's fucking insane. Yeah. Again, they said no. Ila also made the point that was like, okay, I thought this was about copyright infringement. Now you basically just want us to promote you? Like, what are you really mad about here?

What's the real issue? Yeah. At some point in all of these negotiations, Matt parkoured his way over to a mirror and he looked at himself and he said, let's go to court and you can do anything you want to me. He sued them. Oh, my gosh. He sued Ethan and Hila for copyright infringement and misrepresentation in the lawsuit matt's attorney claimed that matt's video comprised the majority of ethan and ela's video no it didn't no it didn't three minutes versus 12 minutes they had a 14 minute video 14 minutes featuring three minutes

of his video wow i mean that's just bad man it is and i'm terrible somebody was gone on fraction you see it was mostly his video and they'd only added the tiniest bit to it the lawsuit also claimed that ethan and ela's video didn't offer any comment, criticism, or parody of Matt's video. What? That's literally what it did. Yeah. Yeah. The lawsuit also claimed that Ethan and Hila

had tried to mislead viewers. You see, they'd created a thumbnail that would make people think that if they clicked on that thumbnail, that they'd get to watch Matt Haas' sweet, sweet original content. Okay, but when you actually look at the thumbnail, they had their own names right in it, in bold white letters, with a purple box around it.

I mean, come on. Matt Haas obviously felt he was owed some damages. Matt Haas obviously felt he was owed some damages. But the thing is, that video that Ethan and Hila made didn't actually get like a ton of views or anything. So if he tried to take the money that they made off of that one video, it really wouldn't amount to much. So what do you think he did? I don't know. What did he do?

He sued them for... Like emotional damage or something? So Matt's attorney took this approach. He argued that Ethan and Hila's channel had grown significantly since they'd uploaded... No! This is terrible. Bullshit. Bullshit.

Since they'd uploaded that video, which was true. It had grown significantly but not because of the video exactly how quickly that video get taken down i i don't know i assume pretty quickly um but his lawyer said that it had grown in part because of the video they'd done on matt so matt wanted some of the money from their channel. From all of their subsequent videos? I'm not sure how much he was asking for exactly, but they wanted obviously some of that money, and they also wanted some of their Patreon money and some of their Kickstarter money.

And Ethan and Hila were like, well, that's going to be really tough because we don't have a Kickstarter and we've never had a Kickstarter. We're just like trying to grab for everything in 2016 ethan and elah made a video talking about everything that had happened so far they talked about the settlement offers they talked about the lawsuit they basically went over everything i just mentioned as i said pretty bold talking about while it's ongoing i know wow yeah yeah huh but i love it because you know when people talk

it makes for a great episode of let's go to court right so they put it all in a video uploaded it to youtube and holy shit people rally behind them first of all ethan and elah were very popular completely due to that one matt haas video they did absolutely so people didn't want to see them in distress but a lot of content creators rallied behind them too because tons of people use clips from other videos in their youtube videos and they all wanted to ensure that if there was a lawsuit about fair use on youtube that the right side would win i'm gonna say because the precedent that that would set would be... Exactly. This could be a landmark case.

Yes. So this is the amazing thing. YouTuber Philip DeFranco started a GoFundMe campaign to help raise money for their defense fund. In the description, he said, If they are bullied and drained of funds because of this ridiculous lawsuit and or they lose this case it could set a terrible precedent for other creators that gofundme raised 170 000 wow everyone from like pewdiepie to jenna marbles donated to it

including people that ethan and ela had roasted before and they, wow, hats off to these people because, you know, they're really just standing up for the principle of it. But this may surprise you guys, but not everyone enjoyed that video. Your boy, Matt Haas, the bold guy, was pissed. Matt Haas, the bold guy, was pissed. He hated that video that they'd made where they talked about the lawsuit. Yeah. So he was like, okay, not only am I suing you for copyright infringement and misrepresentation, I'm suing you for defamation, too.

Because of that video. Which you knew was coming. Yes. So, you know, time passes. It's about a year later. This one's really sad. Ethan and Hila made another update video. And this time they were just like, you know, they thanked everyone for the GoFundMe stuff.

Because obviously that was huge. But they were just like, we are miserable. This whole thing feels like a cloud over our heads. It feels like it's never going to end. Yeah, it would. They said, you know, we believe that we're at a turning point now. Either this thing's going to trial or it's going to stop. I don't know for sure, but I believe at this point,

both sides had asked for summary judgment. So, you know, they're kind of at this point where something could happen. At one point, Hila broke down crying. Well, that's really sad. I mean, it was sad because, like, you could tell she didn't want to do it. And Ethan thought that maybe she was laughing at first, but no. And Ethan basically said he hated his life. Mm-hmm.

They weren't feeling optimistic either way about winning or losing they were like we're fucked either way ethan railed against the justice system he was like thank you to everyone who donated to us but how do normal people defend themselves in court we could not have done this this without financial backing this is crazy yeah but then in august of 2017 after a legal battle that lasted a year and a half which is funny because like i feel like we cover ones that are i'm sure while you're in it this feels like forever yeah so at some point ethan and ela changed attorneys and for their new attorney, in just one month, they showed a bill. It was $54,000. Holy hell. Yeah.

Terrifying. Yeah. And that's hoping you're winning. Yeah. So anyway, in August of 2017, Judge Catherine B. Forrest issued a summary judgment she found in Ethan and Hila's favor on all three counts. Thank goodness.

She said that their video fell under fair use. Yes, they'd used clips of Matt's video, but they had to in order to critique it. In her opinion, she wrote, Any review of the Klein video leaves no doubt that it constitutes critical commentary of the Haas video. There is also no doubt that the Klein video is decidedly not a market substitute for the Haas video. In other words, it's transformative enough that it's not going to be a substitute for the real thing. Yeah. And believe me, it's not because it's so much cringier to watch this whole thing.

I watched it on mute a little bit ago. You did? Terrible? It's bad. Yeah, it's cringe. When she splits her legs, that's so weird looking. You just had to see that, huh, Norm? That was what I was looking for.

I'm glad you're satisfied, Norman. Didn't even make us leave the room. I'm glad you're satisfied, Norman. Didn't even make us leave the room. The judge also said that when Ethan and Ila made their claim to YouTube saying, hey, we didn't infringe on anyone's copyright, that wasn't a misrepresentation. They were right. And even if they hadn't been right, they clearly had a good faith belief that they were covered by fair use. Norm, could you crunch that ice closer to the mic?

Yeah, really, you are like, fuck. It's not picking it up. Oh, come on. That was some loud crunching, my friend. That's a good ice crunching. Sorry about it. She also said that Ethan and Hila's video where they talked about the lawsuit had not defamed Matt Haas.

It's the facts. Exactly. It's factual, yeah. Basically what she said was, it's facts and it's opinion. Yeah. And sometimes opinions you can't just sue for. Yeah.

So Matt's attorney had really taken issue with two statements from that video, which he said were defamatory. Here's the first one. Lay it on me. At one point in the video, when Ethan was talking about why he thinks matt was suing them he said and get ready because this is just terrible i think the heart and soul of this is he doesn't like that we made fun of him and so he's suing us that's an opinion yeah the judge said look that's just an opinion. Yeah. The judge said, look, that's just an opinion.

Ethan didn't reveal any non-public facts about Matt. It's a non-actionable opinion. Yeah. Now, obviously, you can't say just anything about somebody, but that's not defaming someone. No. Okay, now here's the second defamatory statement and this is so stupid and i hope i can tell it clearly okay in ethan and ela's video when they talked about the negotiations and the eventual lawsuit and blah blah blah um at one point ethan was talking about

the point of time i believe it was between the first settlement offer and the first time when Matt threatened to sue. And he said something like, several months passed and nothing happened. Wow. Okay. According to Matt's lawyer, that was defamatory and a big old lie because technically he'd sent them a warning email during that time so it was wrong to say that nothing happened wow by telling that lie of omission they'd painted matt haas as a trigger happy litigant who immediately activates his lawyers when he is criticized. Okay. Okay. Oh, my God.

I love the judge's response to this. So, again, the judge was like, okay, that's a stretch. You guys are being way too hyper-literal about the word nothing. When somebody says nothing happened, you don't assume that absolutely nothing happened. Plus, think about what you're saying you're saying that by not mentioning that warning email viewers walked away thinking that matt haas is a trigger happy litigant as you said but in that warning email that they did not mention, he threatened them with costly legal action if they didn't comply with his demands within 24 hours. So she's like, are you telling me that if they had learned about that email, they would have walked away not thinking that Matt is a trigger happy litigant? I don't think so.

No. Like, he just is. Yeah. Ethan and Hila were thrilled with the judge's decision. But Matt Haas's attorney, Tim Buckner, was not very happy. In a statement to the media, he said, We are, of course, disappointed with the outcome of the case. More importantly, the ruling profoundly changes

the fair use doctrine in the Southern District. Now, secondary users are encouraged to show virtually an entire copyrighted work and claim fair use so long as it is interspersed with jokes and seemingly relevant commentary. Okay, wow. Uh-huh. Quite a leap there, buddy.

I would say so. Yeah. Is this guy dumb? I don't know. Hey, careful what you say. He can't really think that, right? He could listen to this. If he hears dumb.

But if it's a fact. Here's what Ethan had to say. I'm elated. I'm relieved. I'm stoked. I'm happy we took this journey. I'm happy that the opportunity came to us to stand up and set this important precedent for fair use on YouTube. The word is out.

Thanks to Matt, fair use is alive and well. Wow. And that's a boring YouTube story, Brandy. I hated that video, the description of the video so much. I think that was the first YouTube fair use case that actually went to trial. It wouldn't surprise me. It was one of the first or biggest. Well, do you want to tell your story or have you told your story?

Of what? About when MLB threatened to sue us. Oh, yeah. I don't know if I've said that story before. your story or have you told your story of what about when mlb threatened to sue us oh yeah i don't know if i've said that story i think you should tell it because it's a fair use story of where we were like we can't afford a legal battle okay so we slunked out we i i definitely slunked out i made a documentary about when nintendo bought the the Seattle Mariners in the early 90s. And it was a big deal because this Japanese company was buying an American baseball team and people were like xenophobic and didn't like it. Which is shocking in America, I know.

And I used clips from Major League Baseball games from the late 80s and early 90s because the Mariners were terrible. And then they got King Griffey Jr. and they started getting good. So I, throughout the documentary I showed clips of Mariners games and stuff.

And we got a cease and desist in the mail for Major League Baseball. And we crapped our pants. I bet you did crap your pants! we got a cease and desist in the mail for Major League Baseball. Oh my gosh. And we crapped our pants. I bet you did crap your pants. Yeah. And I had to delete the video,

delete any social media posts that linked to the video or talked about the video. And we also have to compliment MLB. Now. Give them three compliments. I truly believe if it went to court and we had infinite resources, we would have won. Right. Because it's fair use.

Correct. It's not like I was. It's not like I made an MLB clips compilation and uploaded it to YouTube. Yeah. It's a documentary. It's for educational purposes. Right. The clips provide context to what I'm talking about. Fair's a documentary. It's for educational purposes. Right. The clips provide context

to what I'm talking about. Fair use. Yeah, but that's a battle that you did not have the resources on. This was when, I mean, we had just moved.

We had like nothing. I had just quit my job. She had just quit her job. We did not have a pot to piss in, as my dad would say. Yeah, so I just said, okay, I'll delete the video and it's gone now.

It was sad though because you'd worked so hard on that. That's one of my favorite episodes I've ever done. I love baseball and it's such a cool story. Fair use is such an interesting, complex thing. Yeah, well it's just a defense.

It's not... Correct. And it's really up to the judge or jury, like, okay, is it? As many things as there are. Yeah. It's a case-by-case basis. And I didn't get as into it as I could have because there are lots of little things

you have to look at, like, is it transformative enough? One thing the judge said was, because I kept getting stuck on, Ethan and Hila did a 14-minute video with three minutes interspersed. But she was like, it's not necessarily about the length of the second work. It's more about, have you really added? Have you changed things?

And they had. You're not going to think i've clicked i've accidentally watched the bold guy yeah which would definitely be an accident i tried to watch some more of his videos just to get a sense yeah i watched i got about 30 seconds into one about him talking to a bisexual woman sweet jesus take the wheel i couldn't do it i could not make it no no he walks out he walks up to two very hot women one of them doesn't want him to be there the other one allows him to be there he stays he talks and at one person I can't take another video description I'm sorry I can't I know but at one point they're like

we're together we're lovers which is like that's not how people talk anybody's phrasing it nobody's phrasing it that way anytime Norman and I are together anywhere we just go up to people and say we are lovers we are lovers you can't sit with us

they say it to me every time we go to lunch Brandy sit over there we are lovers. We are lovers. You can't sit with us. This is my lover. They say it to me every time we go to lunch. Brandy, sit over there. We are lovers. I have to sit at a separate table. If you want a good video on fair use, Lindsay Ellis

did a really good one. Oh, yeah? Explaining it. I love her. Explaining it and how it works and examples. And one great example she gives is Mystery Science Theater. Oh, yeah. Explaining it and how it works and examples and one great example she gives is

Mystery Science Theater. Oh yeah. MST 3K. That was not fair use. They actually had to buy the rights to the movies because they showed the movie in its entirety. Yeah. Whereas what Ethan and Hila did was they took snippets and they critiqued and made

fun of the little snippets and yeah it's totally transformative. Yeah. it's totally transformative. Yeah. Yeah. It's totally different. Good case. Yeah. Thank you.

I hated it. Every now and then I do wish we had cameras in here. And that would have been a great moment. You two looked like you were going to projectile vomit the whole time. It was cringe. Hey, do you think we'll get sued? Because I just described his video. In its entirety.

Papa bless. Hated it. Let's lighten it up and talk about a disappearance. God. Yeah, this is not going to be light. Yeah, thanks, Brandy. It's a rough one. Let me give a shout out to my girl gracie

former salon employee current cosmetology school rock star um she texted me this case a few days ago and i had never heard of it i can't believe i'd never heard of it it It's local. And I think it's very interesting. All right. Okay. So it's Sunday, July 7th, 1974. We're in Prairie Village, Kansas. Which is, as I've mentioned before, my dream town. Brandi could go anywhere in the world.

She goes like 12 minutes over. Is that your destination? I want to live in Prairie Village so bad Why? I love it You've got judgment in your voice Prairie Village is cute It's so cute

They have this little village where the grocery store and everything is It is cute Is that where the hula hands is? And there's the grocery store and everything is oh it is cute love it is that where the hula hands is uh and there's a grocery store next to it yeah the brick the brick shopping center yeah yeah it's pretty cute it's very cute you'll allow her to move there yeah it's expensive it's super expensive and the houses are tiny there's there are huge too. But even the tiny houses are super expensive. The huge ones are like people have gone in

and bulldozed two homes. Two tiny houses. Fun facts. That's where Sue Ann Hobson lives. I don't think you know what a fun fact is. So it's July 7th. Not everyone has all our

episodes memorized. Who's Sue Ann Hobson? If you want to know, you should look it up. Sue Ann Hobson, it was this terrible woman who paid her son to murder her stepson. And she's out of prison now and living in Prairie Village. And Brandy wants to be her neighbor. Which is only one of the reasons I want to live there. Because I might run into her at Hen House. Sunday.

July 7th, 1974. We are at Shawnee Mission East High School. I'm so excited about a local one. Shawnee Mission East sits on the corner of 75th and Mission Road. Big high school in the same school district that we went to. Kristen and I went to Northwest. This is East, which is... Kristen and I went to Northwest this is East which is

maybe the second high school that opened in the school district the first was just called Shawnee Mission High School and is now called is now North Shawnee Mission North and I think Shawnee Mission East was the second to open in the district I hope this is relevant because this is boring as hell it's not at all relevant

so what was the third one to open up anyway It's not at all. It's not at all relevant. So what was the third one to open up? Anyway, it's about 7, 15 p.m. And these two kids are walking home from the swimming pool. They'd been at a local pool in Prairie Village. And they were walking towards their home. And the high school sat in between the pool and their home. So Liz Wilson is 13.

Her name's Lizabeth, but she goes by Liz. There's no E at the beginning. It's like Elizabeth minus the E. Okay. Lizabeth. Okay. And she goes by Liz. She's 13 years old, and she is walking home with her brother john who is 11 they decide to like cut

through the parking lot of shawnee mission east and while they're doing that john is like i'm gonna race you home but you can't beat me and he takes off running uh-huh and liz cannot be bothered by that at all so he runs off a ways he starts kind of up a hill and he kind of checks back to see where Liz is and he sees her coming towards him. And so she continues running. And then he hears Liz call his name. And so he's a little bit further up this hill and and Liz is still continuing towards him. But she he can hear her calling his name. But he thinks he thinks like oh she's trying to slow me down so she can catch me and get home first whatever and so he just takes off running again so he runs all the way home and he gets home goes inside um john is 11 i don't know if i mentioned that so he goes

inside and he's thrilled that he beat liz home because now he gets to go into the living room, turn on the TV and watch whatever the fuck he wants. That was always the race. Yes. Who could get there first? So he goes in. He starts watching TV. Not a care in the world. Like 30 minutes go by.

Liz never comes home. Liz's parents come in and talk to John and they're like, where's Liz? He's like, I don't know. She was right behind me. So this is very alarming, obviously. So they they immediately go down to the school. Liz is nowhere to be found. They start calling neighbors.

No one's seen her. She's seemingly just disappeared. A short time later, they contact police, but she's only been missing for a short time. And so there's not a lot the police do about it at this point. They, you know, send a patrolman out and do a quick sweep of the area, but there's nothing. I hate this. Yeah. So the next day they organize a search again. The parents do. She's still not home.

And the police at this point do start investigating it. Is it 24 hours? Is that the rule? I think that's typically the rule. I think that's the rule now. I don't know that that was the rule in 1974. Yeah, yeah. But they start their investigation at the high school because that was the last place

that John saw Liz. She was in the middle of the parking lot when he was at the top of the hill. And so they go to the high school and they learn that there was this custodian who had been working there that night. Remember, it is the summer, but there's a custodial crew that works at the at the school all year long and there was a custodian that happened to be there on duty that night and his name was john henry horton so he had clocked in like sometime right around seven he was working like an overnight shift um overnight custodian yeah well he i'm sorry he had clocked

in in the afternoon but he was supposed to work like late into the night okay but he had clocked out at around 7 30 for his dinner break and hadn't clocked back in for three hours oh boy yeah and so hours. Oh, boy. Yeah. And so they're like, well, that's alarming. So they track down this guy, this John Henry Horton, to his home in Independence. They get to his house and his wife is there, but he is not. And she tells them that he's at the unemployment office, which seems weird to me because he's got

a fucking job. Yeah. Was he anticipating that he would lose it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So they go to the unemployment office and they find him and they're like, we want to talk to you. What? Yes. They're like, we need to talk to you about this thing that happened. They questioned him right there at the unemployment office.

Wow. the unemployment office. Wow. About if he knew anything about Liz, if he knew anything about this disappearance that had taken place at his workplace the day before. And he's like, no, I don't know anything about it. And they're like, okay, do you mind if we, you know, take a look at your car, you know?

And he completely is cooperative, lets them search his car. And they look in his trunk. They find all kinds of shit that he's stolen from the school, including bottles of chloroform and ether and sulfuric acid. He tells them that he's taken them from the science lab because he's going to get high with them. High with chloroform? If this guy ends up being innocent, this this guy's so weird and then they also find a butcher knife some brown cording and two canvas trash bags which i assume is a 70s thing because i don't know what the fuck that is yeah that sounds like that would get disgusting really

and so they're like well this looks this looks fucking terrible. I mean, it couldn't look worse. Yeah. And so then they, like, search the inside of his car. And in, like, the passenger side of his car, he has two throw rugs, a pillow,

weird stuff. They find a long hair mixed in with all that stuff. Kind of like your salad tonight. That's right. Like that hair I found in my salad that I'm telling myself was mine. Listen, of the things I could find in my salad, a hair is the best because hair does not bother me. Literally, I breathe in hair every day. But you want it in your food?

I don't want it in my food. But like that to me is the least offensive thing for an object I could find in my food. Okay, God bless. Hair bothers me not at all. Okay, okay. When you touch hair all day long. Yeah. I mean, yes, I still don't want it in my food.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. I get you. So they ask him if they can take that stuff as evidence and he's like yeah sure whatever and so they just you know very carefully wad it all up in their arms and throw it in the trunk of a patrol car this is ridiculous you ever heard of an evidence bag yeah so they literally like take an armful of all this stuff including that hair and just throw it in the back of a police car you are kidding no and um they looked gave just like a

kind of a cursory glance at the upholstery and stuff in the car to see if there were any signs of blood or anything like that nothing no signs of concern there. They removed all of those items in the trunk that he admitted that he had stolen from the school. He said he had an explanation for lots of it. He'd been scavenging through the high school when he'd been, you know, left there on his own at night. And he wanted to give the butcher knife to his wife, you know, like you do. And he wanted to do an experiment with that sulfuric acid. And then the chloroform and the ether he planned to huff and get high with. Great.

Got it. Yeah. So they're like, okay. And they're like, how about the clothing that you had on yesterday? Where's that at? Oh, well, that's all covered in blood. So I had to get rid of that. And he's like, well about the clothing that you had on yesterday? Where's that at? Oh, well, that's all covered in blood. So I have to get rid of that. And he's like, well, that's at my house.

And so they're like, great. Let's head on over there. And so they go to this guy's house and he lets them come in and he goes and digs some set of clothing out of his dirty clothes hamper, hands it to them. They're looking at it, and there's holes in the back of this shirt, like some weird tears in the back of this shirt. And so, again, they ask him if they can take that clothing, and, again, he consents.

And they wad it up. They just wad that up real good and shove it in the back of that police car. While they were observing him getting at at his house getting this stuff out they noticed that he's got some scratches on him he's got a scratch on his forehead he's got a scratch behind his ear he's got a scratch on his arm and so they're like we need to take him to a controlled environment yeah like sit him down do an actual interrogation here figure out what's going on and so they take him back to Prairie Village to the police department. And he voluntarily does this. He cooperates through everything, answers all their questions. But again, he denies ever seeing Liz. He denies having any interaction with anybody at

the school that day. Well, case closed, am I right? That's right. That's exactly right. And so they ask him to remove his clothing so that they can see if he has any marks or scratches on any other part of his body. And he consents. He does it. And they are able to see that he's got scratches all over his back. He's got scratches up his forearms. He's got scratches on his thighs. Why did he agree to all this? It's an amazing question, Kristen. And they also noticed that he had blood on his underwear.

Your what? Uh-huh. Like where on his underwear? I don't know. However, he, again, had an explanation for all of this okay so they questioned him about that three hour dinner break that he took and he said what had happened is he'd clocked out for dinner he'd driven to go get some dinner and his car had broken down and so when his car was like sitting in a parking lot somewhere he'd had to crawl under it and start working on it.

And broke his ding dong? No, no, no, no, no. So that's how he'd gotten all the scratches from crawling around on the ground under the car. Yeah. And then the blood on his underwear. Sorry. I can't wait. It's the most ridiculous explanation I've ever heard.

So he and his wife had had sex that night. Oh, my God. And turns out that she was on her period. And instead of doing like what a normal human being would do and like wash your ding dong. Clean his shit up. He just cared about his business. Ew. Yes.

Is that the craziest explanation? No. That's the dumbest thing i've ever heard dumbest explanation ever and so they're like okay great thanks for explaining sorry i just hit the whole mic oh it's okay don't worry i'm sure everyone loved it and so they're like great thanks for clearing that up for us makes perfect Perfect sense. I get a bloody dick myself about once a month. And I just walk around with it for a few days. What the fuck? Who needs a shower? Am I right?

I don't know. I don't know. It seems that they thought that that was a realistic explanation. No, they didn't. They were just humoring him. Sure,'t. They were just humoring him. Sure, Kristen. They were just humoring him. Brandy.

Were they dumber than he was? I don't know. Oh, this is... I don't know. So they continue this interview with him, and he's explained all of the scratches and what he was doing with all that shit in his car and why he's got blood all over his dick like great and then they ask him to walk in through his day so it turns out that he had come to work somewhere around 3 p.m and that he would then be expected to work until i think midnight or something shortly after midnight whatever so he gets to work he clocks in and he is told that he will need to be doing the work of two custodians that night

because the other custodian had called in. So he's going to be there by himself, and he needs to do the outside work as well as the inside work. So there's like all of this, like these trees and stuff near the library, which is on the south side of the school that all need to be watered and so that's like somewhere around 7 30 he's out watering all these trees and right when you believe that that's the part where the parking lot is where he's watering all those trees but he didn't see anything he said he estimated that he started watering the trees about 7.30, finished around 8.05,

and that's when he clocked out for his dinner break. And then that's when his car broke down. He'd come back to the school sometime later, maybe two hours, maybe three hours later. He'd forgotten to clock back in. But he did return. Okay okay we've all told that lie but it's always a lie he pulled at that point he pulled his car into the garage at the school so he could continue working on it okay classic tale so airtight alibi yeah yeah i was right there at the exact time yeah i've got blood on my ding dong

blood on my but that's and scratches all over me that's right and a trunk full of evidence uh-huh absolutely but i didn't do it that's right i had nothing to do that i don't even know who this girl is never saw her never heard of her nothing and the police don't really know where to go with that there's not are you kidding me so this is before dna this is before it's not before common sense you're right it's not but they so they start um talking to anybody who may have been around the school that day so this is like the next day they talk to some girls who happen to be at the high school. They were some cheerleaders for Shawnee Mission East and they happen to be at the school. Wait, now was that the first high school?

I believe it's the second high school established in the Shawnee Mission School District. I hope everyone's taking notes. You know what? Fuck off. Everyone's taking notes. You know what? Fuck off. I will share my fun facts and I will think they're fun and no one else has to. So this group of cheerleaders happened to be there that Sunday evening kind of practicing on the lawn. They were there somewhere in the afternoon, early evening before all of this other stuff went on.

in the afternoon, early evening, before all of this other stuff went on. But they told police that while they hadn't seen Liz or anything that day, what had happened was that a custodian had approached them at some point and said that he needed, he had asked them if they needed to come into the school for anything. And they were like, no, not at all. No, thanks. We don't need anything in the school for anything and they were like no not at all no thanks we don't we don't need anything in the school and he's like well there's like a really cool band concert going on in there you guys don't want to come in and see it oh yeah the cheerleaders were just dying to see that and they're like no and he's like i can let you guys in if you want to if you want to get in and see the band concert i can totally let you guys in. Oh, this is scary. And they're like.

Absolutely not. No, thanks, man. We're cool. And so the police look into this. And of course, there was no band concert going on on that day. And as we already know, there's only one custodian working that day as well. Mm hmm. So, I mean, how much more evidence do we need?

Well, so far, Liz is just missing. Well, come the fudge on. A couple days later, police get word that there's these other two girls that have a story to tell about something that happened that day at the high school. Beth and Mary, they come, they talk to police, and they said that day, they were approached by a custodian. And when they were given like a picture lineup of the custodians who worked at the school, they of course, pointed out this John Henry Horton guy, right? They're like, Yes, it's him. We had been playing tennis at like these public tennis courts that were right near the high school.

And then they, as they were walking home, they walked past that library entrance of the high school. When they do that, and they thought that this is somewhere around 720, they were approached by John Henry Horton. And they were kind of separated at one point. So this one girl, Beth, is kind of walking ahead and he approaches her first and he asked her what time it is

and she says she thinks it's about 7.20 based on when she left the tennis courts and whatever. He asked if she had seen the other custodian anywhere and she's like,

no, you're the only one I've seen. And he's like, dang it it i really need help with something no shut and she's like okay he's like there's this water valve and i need that i need to reach the shut off i need to i was gonna get the other custodian kind of hoist him up on my shoulders so he could reach the valve and while he doesn't come out and say it, she said it was very clear that he's trying to get her to volunteer to do it. But while this interaction is going on,

up comes Mary. And Mary's like, no thanks, whatever, man. Like, we're cool. And ushers Beth away. You know what freaks me out about that? What if Mary hadn't come up? I'm just thinking, I would have totally gone and helped with that.

Right? Yep. God forbid I seem impolite for two seconds. Yes. Oh, yeah, sure, creepy guy who I don't want to talk to and I certainly don't want to be alone with. Yeah, I'll help you out. Yeah. I'll help you find your lost puppy.

Yeah. They walk away without obviously offering to help him or anything. So police look into this a little more. And this is very alarming to them because... Were they not alarmed before? Well, obviously they were alarmed before because a girl is missing. But this shut off valve that he's talking about is one foot off the ground so it's obviously a ruse this entire time it

becomes very clear to them that this guy is has tried on multiple attempts now to get someone into the school along with a young woman to be alone with him correct Correct. But there's no sign of Liz. Months go by. It's now January of 1975. This contractor for this big construction company is working in the area of 105th and Lackman, which is now a very industrial area. They're clearing land of what used to be an alfalfa farm in preparation to build the JCPenney's distribution center. Yes. Okay. And they discover a human skull.

And so police come out, they check the area, and multiple other bones are located at that time. They send those off to the lab to be like they, again, this is before DNA. So they can like basically date them. And they can deem are they all from the same body and get a basic age of who they might belong to they can determine hopefully if they're male or female and an age range of who they belong to right so while that's all going on they're trying to date these these remains that's all skeleton so it's just bones there's no no flesh or clothing or anything attached to them anymore. More time goes by.

And in the following year, in February, this farmer who had owned that land is going through these bales of alfalfa that he baled when he owned that land. And he finds human bones in them. And he remembers that he bailed those in July of 1974. And he remembered at that time smelling a very strong odor in his field. He thought it was a dead animal or something like that. Right, of course you would. Yes. And so when he'd been doing the bailing, like nothing, there'd been no problems.

He just remembered that odor. And he's like, Oh, an animal's died out here or something. No, it's more remains from that same body. So they're able to identify that as all of those remains coming from the same body. And all they can determine is that they are female, and they belong to a female somewhere between the ages of 12 and 14. So based on what they know of missing persons in the area, the police determined that this must be Liz Wilson's remains. And so her family comes and they claim the remains and they take them to Iowa where her family's from and they bury her and they're finally able to have a funeral for her but there's no way to determine a cause of death there's there's nothing and so this case completely goes cold you're kidding they have all of these suspicions about this custodian

yeah and how all of these circumstantial things but there's no direct evidence tying him to Liz at all. No one physically saw him with Liz. Nothing specifically of hers was found. They did check that one hair that they'd found in his car. It wasn't hers. It was deemed microscopically similar, but they couldn't, at the time, they didn't even have the technology

to determine for sure that it was hers yeah and they had only a very small sample of what they could take from a hairbrush in her home yeah to compare it to and so that's as close as they could get and police just they investigators and and prosecutors just didn't think that was enough to move forward with any charges because well now they know that liz is dead they don't know is dead. They don't know how she died. They don't know where she died. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They don't have, while they can think that this guy's creepy

and think he had something to do with it, how do you prove it in court? You could be like, hey, look at all these circumstantial bits. You put them together and you got something. So this, we're at 1975. This case sits and sits and sits until 2001. This poor family.

Oh, yeah. In 2001, this police officer with the Prairie Village Police Department, he's like a detective there, decides he wants to take a fresh look at this case. And he's like, there's got to be something there. We know who did this. Absolutely. There has to be something there. Yes. And so they open it back up and now they've got DNA testing.

And so they go and exhume those remains. Yes. And they compare those remains to the DNA of Liz's mother. And that comes back. It's positive. It's definitely Liz Wilson's remains. And then they want to look more into that hair. The only concrete piece of evidence that they were able to pull from the suspect's car.

Well, here's the problem. That hair was destroyed in 1985 or 1984. So at that time, they believed that they'd done all the testing they could do with it. And so that was super common for evidence to be destroyed when, you know, you've got the report that came back on it. No reason to hold on to that evidence anymore. So they can't do anything. It no longer exists. Yeah.

So he's like, oh, yeah. So he's like, all right, let's see. What kind of case can I make without that? And so he starts looking back over interviews, starts talking to people who'd made statements at that time. And he ends up getting kind of looped back around to this woman who had made a statement sometime during while they were investigating this. Her name is Joy Crager. Joy was 14 years old in 1974. Joy was 14 years old in 1974, and she was good friends with John Henry Horton's niece, Cindy.

And Cindy lived with John Horton at that time, and Joy lived across the street. And so at some point, she had made a statement to police that something, she had experienced something very bad with John Horton. So sometime in that summer of 1974, John had taken Joy and Cindy to a park and had offered to get them high by sniffing chloroform. Oh, no. sniffing chloroform oh no and so they'd gone to this park and he'd gotten them both high but then joy had like sniffed too much of the chloroform and she'd blacked out yeah and when she came to she was being molested by john horton of course she had kept it quiet for a while i guess and i guess eventually had come forward and talked to police about this um what wow yeah and but they didn't while it gave them an idea that yes this guy's super creepy they went and talked to cindy and cindy said it never happened well how would she know well she was there wasn't she high as a kite too yes and she's a kid right maybe she doesn't

want to say anything right so this kind of creates in this in this detective's mind who's looking into this case again for the first time, you know, in 30 years, what he believes happened. He believes that John attempted to do that same thing with Liz that night. He lured her into the school, tried to make her pass out with this chloroform so that he could sexually assault her and that she'd been given too much chloroform and died. Yeah.

And then he'd quickly disposed of her remains. Yeah. Yeah. So when he's investigating this, it's now maybe 2003-ish. They go to talk to John Henry Horton. And when they go to his house, like his wife answers the door, and he jumps out the back window and takes off running. Okay.

He's just going for a run. Yes. When I go for a run, I always jump out the back window. So eventually they get him into custody, and he denies still having anything to do with this. Officially in 2003, they finally charge him with the first degree murder of Liz Wilson. And they move forward with the trial. At this trial, they bring that joy woman to testify about what had happened to her.

They bring all of the police that they originally had talked to. And they talk about, you know, how he had acted during his, his interrogation, the scratches they found on him, all of the stuff that they'd found in his car. They bring forward the cheerleaders and the,

and the girls who had been walking home from the tennis courts to tell their stories. Wow. All of that stuff is all told. All of these grown women. Yes. Yeah. And they're telling a story from 30 years ago.

Yeah. In court. But it's all circumstantial. There's still no direct evidence. There's enough. I think it's amazing how little evidence they have you i think you'd have to get a very open-minded jury to am i too close-minded it's not a strong case it's not a strong case at all i think it's a very weak case they can't prove where liz died

they can't prove how she died they have a theory yeah and they have created that theory around what they found him with yeah it's pretty weak okay but a jury finds him guilty oh yeah they had a bunch of christians on there they're like we see what's going on here victim of first- degree murder and he's sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 15 years because that was the sentence that a crime in 1974 carried. So yeah, they have to sentence him based on the sentencing guidelines from when the crime occurred.

What about the fact that he got away with it for decades? No kidding. Just to be clear, I think this guy is guilty as fuck yeah i know what you're saying everybody knows what you're saying i think it's amazing how little evidence they have yeah so immediately this guy appeals his conviction and he appeals it on two major grounds so So the first is that the teenage girl, Joy, who testified against him about that incident at the park, he says she never should have been allowed to testify. Because the prosecution didn't prove, could not prove, that that incident was anywhere similar to what happened to Liz. Because they don't know what happened to Liz. And his second reason for appealing is that all of the police officers

and detectives who testified at trial, they were able to, while they were on the stand, have their old reports from 1974 in front of them and read directly from them to deliver their testimony. What's wrong with that? He thought that that was not fair, that they shouldn't be able to have that information readily available. And they should be able to tell the same story that they told back then without having to to see those notes so this goes all the way to the kansas supreme court and first the kansas supreme court's like of course they can have their fucking notes like yeah they're trying to remember something from 30

years ago nice try buddy yes the the the the court was right in letting them do that. And then they looked at his argument about this Joy woman testifying. And so the defense had objected to this woman testifying from the beginning. But the prosecution had cited the case of Grissom, the case that I did where the three girls were murdered, their bodies were never found, and he was still convicted of their murders. Remember?

Yeah. So they cited that case saying people were able to testify in that about the type of person he was, the type of acts that he'd done in the past without us knowing how those girls were murdered. And so at the time, the trial court had agreed, yes, that's the perfect precedent. Absolutely.

You're right. We will let this testimony in. So the Supreme Court, though, when they're looking into this, they're like, you can't compare it to that case because there's actual physical evidence tying those girls' disappearances to Richard Grissom. Yeah. You don't have that in this case. They're not enough similar. And so you can't prove, the prosecution did not prove and could not prove

that what happened to Joy Kreger was anywhere similar to what happened to Liz, because we don't know what happened to Liz. Can we give them points for a good theory? It is a good theory, and it's probably right. Yeah, probably is. They're probably exactly right. That's probably exactly what he did. But there's no way to prove it.

And so the Supreme Court overturns his conviction. Because Joy Crager had been allowed to testify. So in 2008, John Henry Horton is tried again. Oh, I hate this. I hate this so much. This time, I believe they had to keep out all of that testimony from Joy Crager. I'm sure, yeah, of course.

So instead, the prosecution brings forward two inmate witnesses people who have been locked up with john henry horton so he's been in prison or in jail since his original arrest in 2003 right when he was originally charged and so he's had all kinds of different bunkies and whatever in that time. Two men come forward and they're like, yeah, he talked to us about the murders. He gave us these details. They can give explicit details about the murder and about the crime in general. And again, the defense tries to block this. They object to it from the beginning.

They say these should be deemed unreliable witnesses. They're inmates. They're trying to get something to block this. They object to it from the beginning. They say these should be deemed unreliable witnesses. They're inmates. They're trying to get something out of this. But the trial court allows it in. Again, John Henry Horton is found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 15 years. And again, he appeals his conviction so apparently at the time that those inmates were brought forward to testify somewhere in the course of this trial the defense got their hands on some jailhouse phone calls some recordings and they wanted to play those in court to discredit those witnesses

oh shit and the trial judge did not allow it why not didn't think it was necessary didn't think it was relevant and thought that the defense brought it forward too late in the trial procedure procedure. And so they said, no, you can't bring it in. And so at this point, the appeals court looks at it again, and they're like, yeah, we think the judge may have made an error by not allowing that in. The defense can present evidence at any point during the trial. They can bring in new evidence, and it should be admissible in court if the judge rules that it's admissible so because the judgment was made like one of the reasons the judge didn't allow it was because of when it was brought up at trial they sent this judge they sent this back to the lower court and we're like okay look at it again and see if you still think you made

the right decision because we don't love the grounds that you made the decision on yeah but it's not necessarily the wrong decision we just want you to take another look at it okay and so at that point the lower court looks at it again and they're like fuck no we we say the same thing dude you're guilty yeah and his conviction is upheld that time this is crazy i've never heard this story never i had never heard it either where'd you find so i know gracie told you but like what she sent me an article from the kansas city star wow okay yeah so he again is sentenced to life in prison yeah with the possibility of parole after 15 years so that 15 year period starts from his original arrest date in 2003 so in october of 2018 he became eligible for parole but he didn't get it his parole was

denied thank god um liz's youngest brother who was five at the time of her disappearance wrote this like very emotional letter to the parole board yeah um a bunch of the prosecutors came a bunch of the investigators came to the parole hearing and they said they intend to be at every parole hearing to make sure that this man stays behind bars on for the rest of his life yeah i again i do think that this guy is guilty first all, he's the creepiest looking dude ever. Wait. He just looks like a child molester. John.

John Henry Horton. Ooh. Whoa. He's so creepy. Yikes. I am. I'm still shocked that they got two convictions out of this. That two juries convicted him based on how weak this case was. Oof. Oof.

Oof. Yeah. Hmm. But that's the story of the disappearance of Elizabeth Wilson. Holy crap. Yeah. So he was, I mean, he was arrested and charged in 2003 like i've never heard of it yeah and i can't even imagine what it's like to do something like that and then just i assume you're just waiting

oh for decades well you have to be right because when they knock on his door to talk about him he jumps out the back window he was not cool and collected no clearly been ready for something to happen like like i said i am very surprised that they were able to get two convictions out of the very limited evidence they had he did try to appeal based on so they were able to present evidence at trial about that destroyed hair sample about how when they had tested it back in the 70s it had been deemed microscopically similar and then it had been destroyed and so no further testing had been done and he tried to appeal on those grounds too that that shouldn't have been allowed to be shared in court but that was deemed admissible yeah because that's no longer reliable yeah i guess

you never say yeah okay no so that hair the, the hair comparison evidence is no longer deemed like a valid. Yeah. It's like a polygraph. Yeah. It's bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you to Gracie for bringing that case to me.

Thank you, Gracie. I can't believe I never heard of it right here in Johnson County. I mean, we're not here in Johnson County currently. Unfortunately for Brandy, we're not here in Johnson County. Such a dangerous place to live

it is dangerous out here sure is you never know what's gonna happen yeah better parkour your way back parkour my way back to my bubble so norm do you have discord questions for us oh yeah uh this one's being wait wait Wait, wait, wait. Wait. People want to know how they ask the questions. Oh, we got to get in the Discord. That's right. And to get in the Discord, you just have to join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. That's patreon.com slash LGTC podcast. Join at the appellate or Supreme Court levels to get in.

You get to talk to us and our moms and it's a whole thing it's really fun my favorite part of the discord remains the animals channel oh we do have an animal channel it's so fun people just post pictures of their animals i love it okay hold on i've got to tell you guys something so i got really invested hang on give me a second. Beep boop, beep boop, beep boop. So Maggie Mae posted this picture of her two dogs. They are, oh. Is this Whiskey and Jeeves? Oh my God, you have them memorized. Okay, Whiskey and Jeeves, yes.

And I don't know how to describe dogs, but like one of them is significantly smaller. He's a little shaggy. You know, they're both distinguished looking boys. But still, one of them just has a real Jeeves look. He's a little shaggy. Yeah. You know, they're both distinguished looking boys. Yes. But still, one of them just has a real Jeeves look. And so I agonized over what to say to her because I wanted to be, I wanted to be like, you named the little one Jeeves, right? But I didn't want to be judgy in case I was wrong.

Yeah, in case it wasn't, yeah. But don't worry. She said Jeeves is the little guy. He's my old man. He's nine and a half and he thinks he's human, which is exactly what I wanted to hear about. Side note real quick. I can't believe I've waited this long to tell you. But when I pulled up here tonight to record, somebody was walking their corgi outside.

I got so excited. There is a really cute corgi in our neighborhood. It's so little too. It's why we moved here. Oh, it's so cute. Okay. Anyway, back's so cute. Okay. Anyway, back to you, Norm. Questions?

Take it away, Norm. Several people want to know, what music do you listen to? Oh, fuck. Somebody asked it, and a bunch of people were like, I second this. Oh, really? I want to know, yeah. I really listen to everything, but I would say I mostly listen to Alternative. That's my go-to.

But I listen to a lot of everything. We just went to the Post Malone concert, David and I did, because I fucking love Post Malone. Oh, you haven't mentioned that in like half an hour. And I sat right next to Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelsey. No big deal. I listen to popular crap that's very upbeat. And there's this meme that is like me. And it's like a baby kind of dancing.

And it's me listening to the same 30 songs that I've listened to for the last 10 years. And that is 100% me. I'm really into Glass Animals right now. They have a song out called Tokyo Drifting that I freaking love. It's very good. I like glass animals. They're coming. Did you know they're coming to the record bar?

Their show sold out in one minute today. Because they're coming to the record bar. It fits 12 people. Yeah, record bar is tiny. You guys heard of Taylor Swift? She has an original movie out on Netflix. It's quite good. David and I are going to a show

at the end of the month so one of my favorite bands is dirty heads which is like total stoner music um and so daddy b from the dirty heads is coming with rome from sublime and they're doing an acoustic set i'm really excited so we're going to that uh at the end of the month wow pretty excited about that wow there was a a Miranda Lambert concert here yesterday that I actually wanted to go to, but I was too tired. Taylor wants to know, Brandy, did you ever try cinnamon in your coffee?

No. It sounds so weird. I'm actually off coffee right now. I would try it, but I'm off the coffee because I'm trying to really limit the caffeine during the pregnancy. Is the baby really cramping your style? It's cramping my style.

So, yeah, you can have like 200 milligrams of caffeine a day during your pregnancy, and that's like a cup of coffee. So I've given up coffee. I used to put cinnamon in my coffee. Yeah, I used to do it, too. It's good. It is really good. We should start doing it again. Why did we ever stop? No nuts. put cinnamon in my coffee yeah i used to do it too it's good it is really good i should we should start doing it again why did we ever stop no nuts no nuts um we should make t-shirts to say let's

go to court no nuts yeah and be like no nuts what what's the challenge favorite part is that there were is that we're two women. I know! It's legitimate. Like, we legitimately have no nuts. We have no nuts. Did you see Baby Nut? Yes! Super Bowl? Yeah.

That was dumb. Oh, the peanut. Sorry. Personally, I hate that Mr. Peanut is alive again. Yeah. He should have stayed dead. Wow. What did Mr. Peanut ever do to you?

I'm just kidding. I don't care. I knew he would come back how are you gonna kill mr peanut well so but the whole thing like they didn't end up playing like there's supposed to be a two-part commercial and they didn't they pulled part of it because they thought it was insensitive after kobe bryant's death to play a death of of mr peanut well that's probably a good yeah so they pulled the first part of it and then just played the... The funeral and then Baby Nut sprouts out. Yeah.

It's genius. You know every other corporate mascot is going to have a baby version now. Yeah, because babies are cute and everybody loves them. Baby Yoda, Baby Nut. Man, Baby Yoda. They were not prepared for Baby Yoda. No. They had no merch ready.

Nope. You have to pre... It's still not going to be available until may like there's have all these pre-orders for all this baby yoda merch how much have you ordered i have ordered none but i've looked at it all i have looked too yeah i want the pop it's so cute i want baby mr Mr. Clean. Baby Mr. Clean. This is a pretty general question, but I think it's a good one. Mandy wants to know, what are you guys looking forward to in the next few months? It's a new year.

New you. Well, I guess this baby. Brandy has a human growing inside her. I'm a human. Brandy. Bringing a human into the world. Kristen. I'm looking forward to your baby, too. Yeah.'m very excited yeah everybody's very excited i'm very excited it's an exciting time

for sure it's not exciting norm is terrified just wringing his hands constantly look i don't want i don't want you to think i'm not excited for your baby because i am but i fully admit babies make me very uncomfortable but not baby yoda baby yoda is not real also really looking forward to that uh daddy in rome concert at the end of the month you know what okay this is this is very lame but the truth is i'm excited last year for my niece's birthday we got her her Disney on Ice tickets. I was like, huh. It's amazing. It's the best.

It's so fun. I've been. It's amazing. It's so good. Last year, it was cool. We went last year. Again, I was thinking, oh, I guess I'll be a great aunt

and go to this lame thing. I loved it more than she did. Yeah. I thought it was amazing. This year, my mom came over today and she's like hey if you don't want to take her to disney i will be taking her i was like first of all we're doing it again and i'm getting better seats yes i am getting great seats to that thing and i don't care if ali's outgrown it that's right i did i went with my niece one time too yeah it's it's a

blast the only thing is you have to clear out your 401k to buy concessions there. Absolutely. Oh, I got one more thing. Well, two more things I'm looking forward to. I'm sorry. There's a limit. Trivia competitions. I've got the one that I go to with my family every year in February where we've come in second place every time.

This year we're taking first, I swear. And then we usually do the charity one. So hopefully, I assume that's happening this year and I'll be invited back you know I haven't heard anything about it what if we're banned we might be if you need me for

your trivia where you travel Norm we got a full team David doesn't even get to come listen you can take second place Maybe you want to take first this time We definitely want to take first I'm really salty about us coming in second

Why? Did you have a winning answer Brandy? She did And were you ignored by your father and sister? I was And are you over it yet? Completely I think you ought to boot someone else off the team So the norms can go on And are you over it yet? Completely. Completely over it.

I think you ought to boot someone else off the team so the norms can go on. Yeah, kick someone. Nat Likes Cats wants to know, are you watching the Oscars on Sunday? Have you seen any of the movies nominated? Have seen some of the movies nominated. And in parentheses it says, maybe this is more of a question. I guess I wasn't answering. Hang on.

seen some of the movies nominated and in parentheses it says maybe this is more of a question i wasn't answering hang on in parentheses it says maybe more of a question for brandy and norm yeah um have seen some of the movies nominated will not be watching because oh yeah we're recording during them um yeah and we've got we got we got kind of a hot thing happening okay and here's here's the fun thing we do not know if this is going to be a patreon bonus episode or if it's going to be a regular episode tbd it's it's a special edition that's for something we've never done before and yeah could be real good yeah or i could suck yeah stay tuned to find out yep pay money to find out kristen why don't you tell the listeners about parasite oh okay norman dragged me to the movies as he has to do because i don't enjoy films okay the movieite is a wild ride.

You have to see it. So it's this Korean movie. And I was like, meh, subtitles, because I'm lazy and dumb. But this movie is so good. I don't want to give anything away. It starts out, and you think it's one thing. You think maybe this is kind of a lighthearted movie. It's not.

It's really good. I highly recommend it. Wow. Okay, I'll check it out. Is it scary? Kind of, yeah. It does have a few scary moments. It's not a scary movie. It's not a scary movie, but yeah.

It keeps you guessing. Okay. It is a wild ride. Oh, I'll watch it. It has everything. As far as the Oscars go, that's up for Best Picture, Parasite. It wins in my book.

I've not seen any of the others. I thought maybe you might have seen A Marriage Story. Oh, we did see A Marriage Story. Yeah, that was good. It's no Parasite. Didn't you see Uncut Gems? Oh, I saw Uncut Gems, too. That's not up for Best Picture.

I guess that is not, yeah. I couldn't believe itcut Gems too. That's not up for Best Picture. It's not up, but I guess that is not. I couldn't believe it. I can't believe that's not up for Best Picture. Hey, J-Lo is the one who was truly robbed. And all the... No. Okay, I just have to say something about the Super Bowl halftime show. What? Oh, all the people saying it was inappropriate. Get your panties out of a wad.

It was so amazing. No kidding. You're mad that J-Lo shook her beautiful ass at you? That she looked so hot? And Shakira was amazing? That was the best. It was amazing. It was a good halftime show. I thought it was excellent.

It was great. And I just want to say, we're sitting around watching an incredibly violent sport that causes long-term damage to men's brains who are out there. CTE is a thing. And people were upset because we saw some ass. That's right. Not even a whole ass. Some crotch shots.

No one's asshole. I didn't see one asshole. And believe me, I was looking. I was looking for the asshole. I was looking for the asshole. You know, one of my clients was like, she came in the day after and she was like, you know, I just have to say that I am a grandmother. Oh, God. And the idea of my grandbabies sitting there watching that halftime show just.

Turn it off. Your grandbabies didn't care. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. Your dad asked me that. He was like, if you were eight years old and you watched that, would you be like... You'd become a man.

Would you be like... Instead of waiting until you were 25. I don't think it... Yeah, because my dad was saying someone was like, oh, my eight-year-old saw that. And started crying or something. No, they didn't.

Yeah. I don't believe it. I think I would have loved it. I loved it. I thought it was amazing. Eight-year-old boy, yeah. We are so, we're like totally, we're puritanical. We're totally fine with violence, but like

anything titillating, we're like, oh my! Kristen, are you trying to do a record of how many episodes in a row you worked the word titillating into? I'm doing great, aren't I? I've got a punch card. Do you? What do you get when you fill it up? A new sub. A new co-host.

Oh my god. Oh, so sad. What would you do if you went on maternity leave and we were like, oh yeah, you know, maternity leave, okay. And then Wednesday, you get a notification on your phone and I've got like a generic brandy store.

No, no. Dollar store brandy. Dollar store brandy. Store-bought brandy. No, no. Dollar store brandy. Dollar store brandy. She laughs like, her laugh is even worse than mine. No, you're irreplaceable, Brandy. Thank you. But I will try.

Sorry. I won't. No. That would be a revolt. That's right. It. I won't. No. That would be a revolt. That's right. It would be blood in the streets. At least three listeners would be kind of upset. Good questions.

DP wants to know, did the Chiefs win the big game? We already addressed this. Yes, they did. DP, you have watched it several times. DP, you have been celebrating harder than patrick mahomes cdp at that post malone concert oh my gosh with his mike's hard lemonade did you hear people are up in arms about patrick mahomes too what about him because he was drinking during the parade and he's an adult let him celebrate he won the super bowl fucking. He won the fucking Super Bowl. Okay. Now I have to go back on what I just said a little bit.

You thought it was inappropriate that he was drinking at the... No, no, no. Oh, okay. No. So I didn't see the parade. I saw like the remarks at Union Station. So my dad and I had this like spot up on a cliff. You know, there's tons of families and everything. And at one point, you know, it at one point, it was very clean.

I mean, people were giving speeches. Until Travis Kelsey said, motherfucker. Exactly. And honestly, I was kind of like, oh, people brought their kids out for this. Yeah, it didn't get bleeped all the way on TV either. Yeah, and it wasn't bleeped in real life. I actually thought they might cut the mic yeah or have you know do something but uh no no but the best part was did you see the video of

the guy who was drunk in the tree and his ass was hanging out and then he fell out of the tree he was fine but did you see the guy who ran into the parking meter trying to catch the bathroom from Patrick Mahomes. And he tweeted, is that guy okay? Yeah, Patrick Mahomes tweeted it. He was like, hey, yo, the guy that ran into the parking meter, okay? He fell right on his butt. He slammed into it. Full force into his parking meter.

He looked like he got knocked out cold. Good times have by all. Final question for Brandy. Least favorite haircut? Ooh, that's a good question. That's a tough one. Someone walks into the salon.

Kristen, your least favorite haircut. I don't think anyone's going to be. What's a haircut you look at and you're just like, oh, no. haircut you look at and you're just like oh no so i would say my least favorite time is when i have to explain to someone that what they are describing to me is in fact a mullet and that that's not actually what they want what if they want a mullet what if you know we just did like a lot of layers and then kind of shorter here but i really like the length in the back it's like okay that's a mullet that's a mullet that's the that's my least favorite thing when i have to explain to someone and i have to like do it delicately yeah yeah i'm like well you know i think that's kind of a dated look do people not know that they're describing a mullet

um yeah yes and if you say that to them they'd no, no, that's not what I'm describing at all. Uh-huh. But they want a mullet. They are, in fact, describing a mullet. It's uncomfortable. I don't like any hair that looks, like, too fussy. What the fuck's that mean? Like, oh, like Teresa Caputo?

Yes. Yes. Like, if it looks like you spent hours and hours on it, it's kind of like, eh. You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm feeling you. Mm- it, it's kind of like, eh. Yeah. You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm feeling you. Let's do some Supreme Court induction.

How does someone go about getting inducted on this podcast? They have to suck my dick. Wow! Was that as shocking as Travis Kelsey? It was. Well, there are no kids listening to this. Hopefully. I hope.

I mean, that video I described was terrible. Yes, it was no they simply have to join our patreon at the supreme court level this week we are doing names and favorite movies wonderful stacy richter reign over me hannah swartz jf. The one with Kevin Costner in it. Aubrey Crookston. Anything Disney. Really? Even Fantasia? I love Fantasia. Izzy Wilson.

We Are Marshall. Diane Baca. Empire Records. I don't feel the need to explain my art to you, Warren. Oh my God. How many times have you said that? It's one of my favorite movies. I like Empire Records.

Amanda Richards. The Outsiders. Oh. I had an awakening. Stay golden pony boy. An awakening? You had an awakening? You became a woman? Yes. Matt Dillon in this movie. Carrie Daniel.

Midsommar. Oh, so good. Miranda Peller. Primal Fear. Abigail Folger. What the fuck? And then she writes, it's my middle name.

No relation. Just a creepy coincidence. Oh my God. So you're thinking the Manson story? Yeah! You're being supported by the Manson family.

Moulin Rouge. Kayla Rogers' Sigatich. Any Tom Hanks movie. Oh, right. Right there with you. Love Hanks. Portia. Pan's Labyrinth.

Kelly. Labyrinth. That can't be right. Yeah, Labyrinth. Yeah, but one loves Pan's Labyrinth Yeah, they're two different movies That's one where David Bowie's bulges What's the coincidence?

Yeah, what's the coincidence? Yeah, you know, David Bowie's got his dog hanging out the whole movie He's got like skin tight black pants on I need to go to the movies Okay, this movie's from 1982 or something like that. He's got the crystal ball. Yeah. What are you two talking about?

With the babe with the power. You two and this man's dong. I don't know what to tell you. You don't watch any movies. You've never seen Labyrinth? No. Kristen. We need to talk to Sherry and Daryl.

They sheltered these kids. They wouldn't let them watch Ninja Turtles either. You don't know who Hoggle is? No. What are you talking about? Ludo? We have not welcomed people to the Supreme Court yet. I'm all tied up on labyrinth right now.

I can't believe you've never seen it. We need a movie night stat. It sounds terrible. Kristen, it's so good. It's a Muppets. Oh, that's sounds terrible. It's so good. It's a Muppets. That's not going to sell it to you. It's a Muppets movie. It's not a regular Muppets movie. Jim Henson did the puppets.

Oh, great. Hey, I think I'm going to be out of town that weekend. Jennifer Connelly's in it. She's really young. So good. I swear. And David Bowie's dong makes a... His bulge. He's just got a giant bulge. With Muppets?

How is that not disturbing to anybody? You'd have to see it, Kristen. He also kidnaps a baby. Poor Kristen. Welcome. poor krista welcome to the supreme court oh god what a mess hey it's an after dark episode the best we can it's gotten very late thank you guys for all of your support we really appreciate it so much if you're looking for other of your support. We really appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon, of course.

Please subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And then leave us a rating. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts. And then be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary.

And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from videos by H3H3 Productions, as well as the court opinion, the articles on TechCrunch and Kotaku, and a video from the Matt Haas Zone. And I got my info from the court record, the Topeka Capital Journal, Fox 2 Now, St. Louis, and the Kansas City Star. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com.

Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. You can have me. If you can catch me.