Let's Go To Court! - 11: The Finger-in-the-Wendy’s-Chili & Government Corruption

Episode Date: April 12, 2018

This week, Brandi’s story doesn’t involve stabbings, serial killers or cult leaders. Instead, she talks about Budd Dwyer, the Pennsylvania treasurer accused of awarding a government contract in exchange for a campaign contribution. Doesn’t sound like Brandi’s cup of tea, does it? Trust us, it is. This story has a huge twist. Then Kristin tells the story of Anna Ayala, who claimed to find a severed human finger in her Wendy’s chili. But whose finger was it? And how the hell did it get there? This one’s a real nail biter. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Finger-in-chili lady back in trouble,” San Francisco Gate “‘Finger lady’ spills the beans about chili scam,” McClatchy Tribune News Service “Prison term for Wendy’s chili scam no joke,” Associated Press “Woman in chili incident fails to enter plea in court,” San Francisco Chronicle “Police call woman’s finger in chili claim a hoax,” New York Times “Police check woman with Wendy’s finger claim,” Associated Press “Finger has lunch crowd rethinking its choices,” LA Times In this episode, Brandi pulled from: The documentary “Honest Man: The Life of Budd Dwyer”  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode I'll talk about a woman who was eating chili at Wendy's and suddenly bit into a severed finger. And I'll be talking about Bud Dwyer, the Pennsylvania treasurer accused of awarding a government contract in exchange for a hefty campaign contribution. I gotta say, when I read your intro, I was like, who the hell wrote this? It doesn't look like there's going to be a stabbing.

This is not a Brandy case. Yes, I was like, she's going to think this is crazy when I cover this case. Is this the sign that you've been Freaky Friday'd with someone else? Yes, it's just me and Barbara Walter. Barbara, happy to have you on the podcast. This will help your career. That's right. Okay, so I'm going to cover Bud Dwyer. And I'm not going to tell you how I heard about this case until later in because it's going to give too much away. Okay. But I got my information for this from this amazing documentary called Honest Man, The Life of Bud Dwyer, which is directed by James Dershberger.

So good. I didn't even know it existed when I started researching this case. I watched it yesterday. And it's available on Amazon Prime. Okay. It's like for free on Amazon if you have Amazon Prime, or you can rent it from Amazon for like two bucks. Totally worth a watch.

So good. Okay. Are you ready? I am. I'm so excited. Are you intrigued that it seems like I'm doing such a vanilla case? I know because it's you that it's not going to be vanilla. Because like you did that intro and I was like, I'm not intrigued.

But because Brandy chose it, there has to be some weird shit going on. Okay. So Robert Bud Dwyer was the 30th state treasurer of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. He served as state treasurer from January of 1981 to January of 1987. Prior to that, he had served in various seats of the state government dating back to January of 1965. He was born on November 21st, 1939, and had attended Allegheny College in Pennsylvania. And after earning his master's degree in education, he taught social studies and coached football at Cambridge Springs High School. As part of his schooling, he participated in this program where he spent a summer in Poland.

And at that time, Poland was a communist country. And so he was really affected by that. He saw the way things ran in Poland, and he was really inspired to get involved in government. Because he was like, this is why there's democracy. And I want to be a part of democracy. Okay. And so he came back from Poland. He immediately married his wife, Joanne, who he met while he was student teaching. She also was a teacher at the same school. And then they had two children, a son and a daughter. And then he, you know, taught for a little while. And then he kind of went all in on this political career that he just, he was just drawn to it. He just knew he was meant to be in politics.

Gotcha. Bud had a very hands-on approach to campaigning for all of his various seats he held. He started, you know, like at the district level and then moved up until he became the state treasurer. He didn't spend money on I'm sorry, I was just distracted by my notes. But he didn't spend money. So he didn't spend money on TV spots or radio ads, which are really common at the time. I mean, still are common in his value campaign. He went straight to the people. He would go door to door and meet voters and he would hand out matches to the men and nail files to the women.

And they had his name on them. And like that was his thing. Like he believed it was super effective. You know they smoking was really big at the time so you know you know you had a match to light your cigarette no look it's bud dwyer you know women filing their nails oh look it's bud dwyer um he also went to fairs so fair like he his campaign manager um who was just a friend of his sure had some connection with like the county fair circuit or whatever.

And so he would go to all these different fairs, and he would drive in this old station wagon with this trailer on it, and he'd set up a little thing, and he'd just meet people. He would shake hands with people until his hands were raw and swollen, and he couldn't get his ring off. Ew. Like, he would just, he wanted to meet anybody and everybody. Okay.

His campaign manager said, once you met Bud Dwyer, you'd vote for Bud Dwyer. He was just like an everyman. Like you trusted him, you related to him. He was just a normal guy. He was elected to state treasurer on only a $50,000 campaign budget. So at the time that was really low. It's really low. Yeah.

Yeah. Like nothing. Okay. You would spend that on like one TV spot alone. So at his swearing in as state treasurer in 1981, Dwyer said this to the crowd. Only in America, only in America could a kid from Blooming Valley, which is a small farming town in Pennsylvania, without affluence, without a political base, without a political legacy, be elected to a statewide office in the fourth largest state in this great nation of ours. Bud Dwyer was living his American dream. So Dwyer entered the Treasury with two major goals.

The first was to modernize the Treasury system. He saw an opportunity to computerize everything and collect more interest and reduce costs on all the transactions coming in and out of the treasurer's office. So they're running money in and out constantly. And it was being done in an antiquated system. And they were losing money on what could be gaining interest because this money wasn't sitting in bank accounts the right way. And they were also losing money on the cost of actually doing these manual transactions. And so he computerizes everything and makes it way more efficient and collects all

this interest that they were just losing out on, basically. So his second initiative was to cut the waste. So under his cut the waste initiative, Bud Dwyer asked citizens to get involved. He put out ads asking for people to call in if they saw places the government was wasting taxpayer money. Oh my God. Yes. So any kind, he, he wanted any concerned citizen to call in and say, you know, this is what I'm seeing. You know, I feel like this is a waste, you know, you have whatever, whatever wasted resources he wanted to know about him because he couldn't have his eyes on everything at all at the same time. But he knew that there was a lot of waste going on in the government spending. And so he wanted to, to really trim the fat. Why does your face look like that? I just feel like that's one of those things that

sounds like a good idea, but then you get every nut job ever. Oh, I'm sure. I am sure. I don't like my son's kindergarten teacher. That's a public school. That's what I'm envisioning. I am willing to bet there was a lot of that. Okay. So as part of this initiative, in addition to those ads that he ran, they also started taking a closer look at all of the expense reports that came into the treasurer's office.

So any kind of government official, anybody who basically was on the state payroll would submit these expense reports. And then it was their job to go through and determine, are these legitimate? Are people trying to slide stuff under? Yeah. So one of these expense reports that came through the office was that of Pennsylvania Governor Dick Thornburg. And it was over Dick Thornburg's expense report that Bud and Thornburg started to clash. So Thornburg took a business trip to Germany and his wife accompanied him. Fine. You know, it doesn't cost them any more in hotel room for his wife to come stay.

You're using the same amount of room. You know, no big deal. And usually in those situations, like the spouse pays for their airline ticket. Correct. Except in this case. Oh, boy. Governor Thornburg had submitted Jenny, his wife Jenny's, $1,680 plane ticket on this expense report. And so someone in the treasurer's office, not Dwyer himself, finds this expense report and brings it to Dwyer's attention.

He's like, hey, we're not allowed to pay this, right? And he's like, no, absolutely not. You know, that would be a misuse of government funds. So Dwyer declines the expense and sends an invoice to Thornburg. I thought it was Thornburg. Thornburg. For fuck's sake. I'm just going to call him Dick from now on.

Sure. So he sends an invoice to Dick for the price of the ticket. I was really hoping you'd somehow mess up and say Dick or something. So. Somehow. And this is pretty, this is unclear to this day. I don't really think anybody knows how this happened. Okay. Somehow the press hears about this expense report getting submitted. And then the treasurer denying to cover these costs.

And so the press makes a big story out of it. And, you know, it becomes a big story about gubernatorial spending and misconduct. Do you think that that was Bud leaking that to the press to, like, show, hey, I'm doing my job. I'm tough. I'm holding everyone accountable. I don't think it is. No? There's a theory about who

leaked it and i'll get there in just a minute um and so this story gets out it becomes a big deal you know and then the police come forward and alert dwyer that they have been escorting dick's sons to mass Massachusetts for school. What? So they've been doing these police escorts from Pennsylvania to Massachusetts for the governor's sons schooling. Yeah. And so the theory is, is that the police are actually the ones that leaked the information to the press that there was misconduct going on.

leaked the information to the press that there was misconduct going on who knows if that's true but that's kind of the accepted theory of who leaked the information i can't believe they were driving those little turds to school so sorry i shouldn't say that about these kids i don't know you don't know these kids i don't know these kids and i'm mad at about the dad. Sorry, that was misdirected. Take it back. So when Dwyer finds out about this, he puts together a spreadsheet, basically, of what has been spent on this, basically, police escort. And he calls a press conference. Oh, my God. And he presents this spreadsheet and shows the cost that it has racked up and says, you know, I'm not going to stand for this any longer. This is what I came into this office to do was to cut this and I'm cutting this and I am going on the record right now and saying, Dick, you need to pay for this. Yeah.

So. Dick is pissed. Uh-huh. He believes that Bud is intentionally seeking him out for misconduct. But what's interesting is that they're both Republicans. They're not in opposing parties or anything like that. But they are clashing big time. He reportedly called Dwyer a country bumpkin and was overheard saying,

I'll get that son of a bitch if it's the last thing I do. What? Yes. Oh, my God. Yes. So now you've got the governor pissed and called out in public by the treasurer. What's wrong? I feel like there's somebody at your front door.

Sorry, I just got distracted. Somebody just walked up to your front door. Okay, I'm'm gonna go look it's just a delivery not a murder do you want to know what was so freaky about that yes okay so i thought you just like saw you, like the front porch or something. I was like, oh, she didn't really see anything. Okay, well, I go to the front door. I look out and there's someone who there's this man who appears to be getting into our car.

Oh, my God. And it took me just a second to realize that it was a slightly different color car and it was actually his, but he was in our driveway. But he was just dropping off a package from Amazon. Oh my gosh, that's so creepy. I had this moment of like, what? Okay. Okay. Back to Bud Dwyer all right so he's the treasurer he's pissed off the governor and

the governor says i'm gonna get that son of a bitch if it's the last thing i do okay i do want to say one thing i find it so annoying when people are like i'm being singled out and it's like well you did bad stuff yes i feel like that's the weirdest, most pathetic excuse ever. Other people murdered people and they're not in trouble. Exactly. Exactly. So Dwyer has unknowingly set off on a collision course with Thurnburg. Thurnburg.

Dick. Collision course with Dick. I didn't want to say that. New porn title. Collision course with dick I didn't want to say that new porn title collision course with dick so he's set off on a collision course with dick and it's only a matter of time before he's poked

now it's only a matter of time before he finds himself in the midst of his own scandal. Okay. A.K.A. F'd in the A by Dick. We are 13-year-old boys. That is correct. Okay. So during the night, during the early 1980 of this is that there were, it was retired teachers who had overpaid in taxes, and they'd overpaid a lot. Basically, it was decided that they couldn't be taxed on vacation days, but they had been taxed on those. And so... Oh, good. So our public school

teachers were the ones being ripped off. I love hearing that. So, you know, they find out that this has been going on and that these people have been overtaxed, wrongfully overtaxed. And so the treasurer's department then has to figure out a way to decide or to determine who is owed what back and to do that in the most cost effective manner and the quickest manner because all of this, there's millions of dollars sitting here that is belongs to these. Wow. Um, so one of the firms that submitted a bid for this job was computer technology associates or CTA.

And this was owned by John Torquato jr. And though CTA was a California-based company, Torquato was a native of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And Torquato was well-known in Pennsylvania. Why do you say it like that? And not in a good way. His father was rumored to be involved in the mafia, and Turquado had reportedly picked up some of his father's questionable practices. It was said that he'd tell a lie when the truth would do better. He was just one of those people who lied about everything, did anything he could to get whatever he wanted.

It didn't matter who was hurt by it, what laws he broke. Right. It was just all, you know, what's the best for me. Okay. And I'll do any means possible to get to that. Okay. So in following with that nature, he wanted this contract and he was willing to do whatever he could to get it because it would result in a $4.6 million payday for CTA. Yeah.

It's a huge contract. Yeah. Yeah. So Turquato calls up his attorney, William Smith. Miami. Sorry, I couldn't think of any other Will Smith song. That's the one you got. Not getting jiggy with it.

Oh, God. I missed opportunity. Cut that. So he calls his attorney, William Smith, and says, call a meeting with Bud Dwyer. Offer him a $300,000 campaign donation if he insures. Hold on. The attorney advised this?

No, this is what Turquato tells his attorney to do. Call up Bud Dwyer. Offer him a $300,000 campaign donation if he insures that CTA gets the contract. Oh. campaign donation if he ensures that CTA gets the contract. And Smith says, we don't have to do that. I know Dwyer. I'll set a meeting with him. I'll go talk to him. Yeah.

But if I offer him a bribe, he won't take it. And he's going to throw me out of his office. Yeah. He's not that kind of guy. And so Smith's kind of like weighing this decision. Because he personally knows Dwyer. Yeah. Known him for years just, you know, through.

Smith has been involved in the government in Harrisburg. And so he just knows him. And he's kind of weighing this decision. Like, do I do what basically my client wants me to do? Or do I do what I know to be right? Do I just have a conversation with him and not mention the bribe? I don't even understand how this would be hard to decide. So in the meantime, Turquato's putting a lot of pressure on him.

Like, do this or I'm going to do something terrible to you. Your wife's in danger. Your son's in danger. Yeah. I'm not going to have you risking the opportunity for me to lose this contract by going in and just having some normal conversation with him. You go in there, you offer him the $300,000. Yeah. And so there's varying versions of this story.

There's varying versions of this story. Okay. So Smith says he goes in. He schedules a meeting with Dwyer. He goes in, has the meeting, and says, you know, Traquato really wants this contract. He's prepared to offer you a $300,000 campaign donation if you ensure he gets it. And Smith later testifies that Bud Dwyer says, I think we can make that happen.

And then he later recants that version of events. Either way, CTA ends up getting the bid. But by all accounts, it seems like they were the best bid. Okay. They had a completely different system than anybody else, any of the other accounting firms. It was all computerized. And they could do, one person could do the work of like 30 through this proprietary computer software that CTA had. And so they got the contract.

Man. Yeah. I will say that in the documentary that I watched, that's how they presented this information, that CTA did get the bid or did get the contract, but they put in the best bid. did get the contract, but they put in the best bid. On Wikipedia, it says that a local accounting firm in Pennsylvania submitted a bid that could have done the work in about the same time frame for a little less money. That's not presented in.

And that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the best bid. Yeah. Yeah, because we had a guy come in and give us a bid on redoing our bathroom, and he didn't know his ass from his elbow, but it was the lowest price. Exactly. And specifically,

the way it's presented in this documentary is that, you know, the way CTA was going to do it was very in keeping with what Dwyer had set out to do for the Treasury Office in general. It was modern. It took in this, you know, it brought in this whole computerized side of things. And he felt drawn specifically to that side of things.

And his advisors did as well. Okay. And so that's why he went with that bid. Okay. So shortly after the contract is given to CTA, Governor Dick announces that he received an anonymous memo Oh, man. in California. They seize Turquado's computer and on it, they find a note that says, offer $300,000 bribe to Dwyer. Like,

that's basically like in the notepad on his computer. First, workout. Yes. Then, go to the grocery store. Yes, then offer a $300,000 bribe. So, as a result of this investigation, they indict Turquato, Smith, the attorney, and Dwyer on 11 counts of conspiracy, mail fraud, and interstate transportation in aid of racketeering. I don't really know what that means.

I didn't bother to google it racketeering to me sounds like a really tough sport i know just picture like like extreme badminton you've got to start it at a summer camp in the berkshires and then yes follow through as an adult bud was shocked when the indictment came down he said how can this happen in america which that quote is so striking to me because like this quote i read earlier about when he was like in only in america could this you know this country guy you know living his american dream and then now it's turned into a nightmare. Yeah. He's like, how can this happen in America? His family, friends, and constituents were equally shocked.

On the documentary, his sister shares this story from when her son was younger and they visited Bud in Pennsylvania. And they had gone to this like museum of like miniatures it was like a miniature village museum and her son had just turned 12 it was like the day after his 12th birthday or something like that yeah and at the museum a children's admission was like under 12 and an adult admission was 12 and over. Right. She paid for the children's admission for her son. And they were at this museum. And Bud sees the ticket that she bought for her son and sees that she paid a child's admission. And he was furious.

He was like, no, this is not honest. Go up there and pay the extra $2 or whatever it is. That's not right. And he would not let it go until she went up to the ticket booth and paid the difference. I'm totally with him on that. I know. Yeah. Yes.

And so it was just completely out of the realm of any – nobody could believe that he would take a bribe yeah um so much so that in the middle of this scandal he was re-elected as straight wow yes in the midst of all of this going on he is is reelected. Wow. Yes. I think that says a lot about like how trustworthy and honest that people saw him. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Those nail files work. Right. So James West went by Jim was brought in to prosecute. He was known to be an associate of Governor Dick. Apparently, when the governor became governor, he brought this Jim West on as a prosecutor, as a state prosecutor. Gotcha. He was lovingly referred to in Harrisburg as as jimmy the weasel oh yeah so west um freely admits that dwyer never received a cent from jerquato but he said and this is a quote

it's still bribery when a high-ranking official agrees to take the money and the intent is there to later accept the money. It doesn't have to change hands. So I think this is interesting because. So far, the only evidence of this bribe is this note on Turquoise. Yeah. bribe there's this note on turquoise computer and the story of his attorney saying i offered the bribe to him there's no other evidence no money was it turquoise never paid any money dwyer never received any money there was no video there was no audio yeah so if you could be charged with a crime based on a note somebody else made about you, that is alarming.

Yeah. I think that's really scary. Yeah, it is. Somebody else's personal note that they made about something they intended to do, they intended to offer you a bribe, when there's no proof that that bribe ever took place, still led to an indictment against Dwyer. I think that's scary. This is really, really sad.

Yeah. And I'm really worried about how this is going to end. Well, you should be. Oh, shit. I'm rooting for the country bumpkin, and I feel like I'm on the losing team here. Yeah. So Dwyer was offered a deal.

If he would resign his office as treasurer, his charges would be reduced to one count of accepting a bribe, and he would face a maximum of five years in prison. Oh, my. And Dwyer said, nope. No, I didn't do it. I haven't done anything. I will not take the deal. And he said, let's go to court. God.

You got me. You totally got me. You know what I was waiting for? What? I was thinking you were going to read a quote that was along the lines of the Lamonté McIntyre quote. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Damien Echols, how can I be? Yeah, I'm innocent.

So I'm going to go. Yeah. Yeah. Man, you got me. So Turquoise and Smith took plea deals in exchange for lighter sentences and testified against Dwyer at trial. The prosecution was granted a change of venue due to the high- nature of the case. And the trial was moved out of Harrisburg to Williamsport, a mountain town where the average person did not have an understanding of the ins and outs of politics or the inner workings of the government.

In the documentary, Dwyer's daughter is talking about this change of venue. And she says, you're supposed to be tried by a jury of your peers. Yeah. My dad had a master's degree and a law degree. And some of these jurors hadn't graduated high school. Yeah.

I mean, I think that that's a fair point. Very fair point. This case was complicated and involved intricate details of how various government departments operated. And these people in this

in this area where they moved to had no knowledge of any of that and i wonder if that's one of those areas or tends to be a group of people who don't trust the government no matter what and think every politician is corrupt and so yeah yeah he was screwed yeah the defense didn't get much help when it came to the judge either judge malcolm meir presided over the trial and he was described as a second prosecutor oh and a hanging judge so hanging judge is a colloquial term that's used to describe someone who is known to hand down extreme sentences. Did not get a lot of hugs as a kid. No.

Yeah. Ugh. I'm not going to go into a lot of specifics about the trial, even though this is a court podcast, because it's boring. Okay. No one straddled anyone on a bloody bed there were no gloves that didn't fit and no one was rolled in on a stretcher i like the way you think because i feel like sometimes people are like now let me tell you every detail yes pass hard pass on every detail. Yes.

So this was just your average run-of-the-mill white-collar crime trial. Dwyer did not take the stand in his own defense. In fact, the defense believed the prosecution had put on such a weak case and that they had punched enough holes in their witnesses on cross that they called no witnesses. Oh, shit. But, you know, OK, I always say it's a bad idea to testify in your own trial. But he seems like the kind of guy who maybe should have. I know. He was that dynamic.

Yeah. Yeah. One thing I will mention about the trial is, you know, Turquato testified, Smith testified. And Smith, he talks a lot on this documentary. And I cannot stress enough how good this documentary was. And it's only like an hour and 15 minutes. Brandi, are you going to give us a promo code? Like, are you going to get some kind of cut from this?

I get nothing from this. I really just think it was so good. Enter Brandi at checkout. Yeah. And so Smith ended up perjuring himself on the stand. Oh. Because at his own trial, he had said, you know, that he never offered a bribe. Uh-huh.

And then at Dwyer's trial, he said he did offer him a bribe. Well, what the fuck, dude? And so he later said he'll never forgive himself for lying on the stand at Dwyer's trial. Yeah. And he said that Turquato got up there and told one lie after another. Mm-hmm. But that was what he was known to do how did he explain the note on his computer you know i don't know okay i don't know we'll just have to watch the documentary

to find out but turquoise admitted that he offered the bribe okay so that wasn't something that he had to cover up yeah yeah so he was just like yeah yeah you found my note you found my to-do list yeah good on you because he wanted if he was going down yeah everybody else anybody he could with him yeah yeah so on december 18th 1986 dwyer was found guilty on all 11 counts of conspiracy mail fraud perjury and interstate transportation in aid of racketeering. And consequently, he faced a sentence of up to 55 years in prison. What? And a $300,000 fine. Yeah.

What? Yes. His sentencing was scheduled for January 23rd, 1987. Oh, my God. Yeah. So if he would have taken the deal, he would have faced a maximum of five years. He was not willing to plead guilty to something he hadn't done. And so he rolled the dice and went to court, and he lost big time.

Oh, my God. Big time. time oh my god big time per pennsylvania state law dwyer was to remain in his position as treasurer until his sentencing though many were calling for his resignation yeah um dwyer still maintained his innocence though and refused to resign he wrote letters to hiring the officials asking for them to intercede. He wrote a letter to Ronald Reagan and asked for a pardon. Yeah. But because the court proceedings weren't finished, he hadn't been sentenced, like nobody was able to step in even if they had wanted to. Right.

On January 22nd, 1987, the day before his sentencing, Dwyer called a press conference. It was widely believed that he was calling this press conference and he was going to resign from his office. At the conference, appearing nervous and agitated, he again professed his innocence and began reading from a 21-page prepared text, later described as a rambling polemic about the criminal justice system. Oh, my. It singled out Governor Dick, acting U.S. Attorney West, agents in the FBI, Judge Meir, and others for tarnishing the justice system and ruining him. Dwyer spoke out against the death penalty and expressed regret for voting

in favor of it while he was in the Pennsylvania Assembly. This speech lasted nearly 30 minutes and approximately halfway into it, with no apparent end in sight, some of the gathered press began to pack up and leave. Dwyer spotted this and interrupted himself to say, Oh, my God. I'm going to read you just the last part of the last page of his statement. This is what he said. I thank the good Lord for giving me 47 years of exciting challenges, stimulating experiences, many happy occasions, and most of all, the finest wife and children any man could ever desire. Now my life has changed for no apparent reason. People who call and write are exasperated and feel helpless.

They know I'm innocent and want to help, but in this nation, the world's greatest democracy, there is nothing they can do to prevent me from being punished for a crime they know I did not commit. Some who have called have said that I am the modern day Job. Judge Meir is also noted for his medieval sentences. I face a maximum sentence of 55 years in prison and a $300,000 fine for being innocent. Judge Muir has already told the press that he felt invigorated when we were found guilty and that he plans to imprison me as a deterrent to other public officials. But it wouldn't be a deterrent because every public official who knows me knows that I am innocent. It wouldn't be a legitimate punishment because I've done nothing wrong. Since I'm a victim of political persecution, my prison would

simply be an American gulag. I ask those that believe in me to continue to extend friendship and prayer to my family, to work untiringly for the creation of a true justice system here in the United States and to press on with the efforts to vindicate me so that my family and their future families are not tainted by this injustice that has been perpetrated on me. Dwyer then paused his speech and pulled from his briefcase three sealed envelopes that he handed to his staffers with instructions. The first was a letter to Bob Casey, the new governor of Pennsylvania, who had taken office just two days prior. The second envelope contained an organ donor card and related materials.

The third contained letters to Dwyer's wife and two children. Then he pulled a large manila envelope from his briefcase. And from it, he pulled a.357 Magnum revolver. Oh, no. People gasped and the scene quickly became chaotic. Dwyer calmly said, please, please leave the room if this will affect you. Oh, my God. People begged him to put the gun down, and some people even made a move towards him in an effort to get the gun away from him.

And he backed up. He was basically backed up against a wall at this point. And he said, don't. Don't. This will hurt someone. Then, as five news cameras recorded, Bud Dwyer put the revolver in his mouth and fired one fatal shot. Holy shit. Oh, my God.

Yep. It was later discovered that there was one more paragraph of his statement that he had not yet read. This is what it said. Oh, my God. I've repeatedly said that I'm not going to resign as state treasurer. After many hours of thought and meditation, I've made a decision that should not be an example to anyone because it is unique to my situation. Last May, I told you after the trial, I would give you the story of the decade. To those of you who are shallow, the events of this morning will be that story.

But to those of you with depth and concern, the real story will be what I hope and pray results from this morning, in the coming months and years, the development of a true justice system here in the United States. United States. I am going to die in office in an effort to see if the shameful facts spread out in all of their shame will not burn through our civic shamelessness and set fire to American pride. Please tell my story on every radio and television station and in every newspaper and magazine in the U.S. Please leave immediately if you have a weak stomach or mind, since I don't want to cause physical or mental distress. Joanne, Bob, Deedee, I love you. Thank you for making my life so happy.

Goodbye to you all. On the count of three, please make sure that the sacrifice of my life is not in vain. Oh, my God. This is nuts. I can't believe this story. Yeah. So five news cameras were recording when he killed himself.

And they broadcast his suicide on the news. No. Yes. So a couple stations stopped it right before, like right as he put the revolver in his mouth. But before he fired the shot, a couple of stations aired it in his, in its entirety. In like the afternoon news? Yes. When kids could be home?

The kids were home because it was a snow day. Oh my. Tons of children saw this footage. This footage is still readily available on the internet. This is how I know of this story. So tell me about that yes so I came across this story and one of those like flip through like Facebook links that's one of those things you're always ashamed to read yes it's like you know um I think the one I read was like um 15 haunting pictures of

like the or the last haunting last pictures. And it was like the last picture taken of people before they died. And there's this very famous picture of Dwyer. And he's got his hand out towards somebody who's coming towards him. And he's got the revolver in his hand. Oh, my gosh. And so that was one of the pictures that was in this. And so then I was like, what is this?

I want to know more about this. And so I researched him. And that's how I found, you know, this whole case that led up to this moment. Some people might be thinking, why would you click on an article with that kind of headline? So now I want you to tell them what your shirt says today. So my shirt says, I have the perfect body. And then underneath it, in smaller print, it says, in my freezer at home. So Brandy likes the sick stuff. Yes, I think we've established that I'm a fucking psychopath. You normally don't wear it like a sandwich board, though.

It's usually something you have to get to know you but that story yes i mean i oh my god it's nuts and yeah you could so people were outraged that children saw this video you know but it's one of those things that's out there and will never go away because now it's been turned into a digital know but it's one of those things that's out there and will never go away because now it's been turned into a digital clip and it's available all over the internet how did that governor react dick what's his butt um or do you know i don't know okay i think that would be interesting to know i don't know because you know in my mind this guy was clearly set up yeah clearly and so one of one of his close friends i called the governor he was a close friend who worked in the treasurer's

office with him he called the governor after it happened and he said you just murdered my best friend. Wow. Yeah. And it was, it was pretty widely believed that he was innocent. Yeah. So the question remains, though, if he was innocent, why kill himself? Why not appeal? Why not continue to fight it? Okay. I have a thought on that okay he had a law degree uh-huh i feel like if you've got a law degree you know that you've got a snowball's chance in hell of your appeal actually working whereas somebody who maybe doesn't have that knowledge would be like well you know hey this is this is terrible but you but surely we can get this in front of another jury. We can, you know. And I think he understood what he was up against.

And there's another big reason. Oh. So if Dwyer had been sentenced, he would have forfeited his pension dating all the way back to his first teaching job since he died in office without being sentenced his family his widow was able to collect full survivor benefits which equaled about 1.25 million dollars oh my god so his final act was to take care of his family. Yeah. Oh, my God. So that answers why. But the other question is, why do it in such a public manner? Mm-hmm. In the documentary, his wife Joanne says something to the effect of,

if he had just taken some sleeping pills and quietly died, do you think anybody would be talking about this case? No way. No. No. No one would remember it. And people would think that he was maybe guilty after all because he was so ashamed. I think the way he did it to me shows that he truly was innocent. Yes.

I completely agree. Yeah. So Dwyer's children have made a point to never see the footage of their father's suicide so they talk in this documentary about how they learned of it because they were young adults at the time it happened yeah his daughter says that she was at home and like a breaking news bulletin came in and said um oh my god, God, I just hit the whole mic, sorry. Fuck beans. Fuck beans.

Good luck. So this breaking news bulletin comes in that says, Treasurer shot himself. And her immediate reaction was that it was a figure of speech that he had you know announced his resignation and that it was some shot himself in the foot kind of right yeah yes yeah and then it became clear that it wasn't a figure of speech that he had actually shot himself and then her immediate reaction was he's in the hospital we need to get get to the hospital to be with him. And so it was just devastating to learn that, no, in fact, he had killed himself.

Yeah. And his son was driving in the car. And it was, like I said, it was snowing out. It was just, you know, snow coming down, inches of snow on the ground. And he said he was driving home. And he was, like, two miles from home when a breaking news bulletin came on the ground. And he said he was driving home and he was like two miles from home when a breaking news bulletin came on the radio and said it. And he said it took him, it felt like two hours to get those two miles home to be with his family.

His children have made a point to never see the footage of their father's suicide. It is included in the documentary. Okay. But the director edited it out of the version that he sent to the family. Okay. So I would like to close with a quote about the footage from Bud's daughter, Deedee. This is what she says about it. As much as I don't like that the video circulates around the internet,

that it's easy for people to find. On the other hand, maybe it will pique people's curiosity enough that maybe they'll investigate it a little bit. Which is so true because that's exactly what I stumbled upon it. And I looked into this case and I think it's crazy. And I think this guy was totally set up and probably was 100% innocent. It is terrifying to me how little they had on him. Yes. That's, that's crazy.

It is terrifying. All they had on him was a note somebody else wrote about what they were going to offer him. Mm-hmm. else wrote about what they were going to offer him. And one person who lied on the stand and said that he would, and admittedly says he lied on the stand. Yeah. So he, so Smith is interviewed a lot in this documentary and he says, Dwyer's dead because of me.

I will never forgive myself for that. Which, good. I mean. I don't know. I don't mean to sound heartless. No. But, you know, sometimes you should feel guilty. Yeah.

Sometimes you should really reflect and. Yeah. And know that you've made a horrible mistake yeah oh so that's the case of bud dwyer that i had never heard anything about that yeah i think a lot of people haven't heard anything about it yeah that is so sad yes and don't you wonder when you hear a story like that what good he could have done? I mean, someone like that in office who's going to make those hard calls and hold the most important people accountable. Oh, man.

So like 400 people came to his funeral. Yeah. And lots of people were interviewed on the news afterwards and like just regular citizens. And they were like, we totally saw him becoming our governor one day. Yeah, sure. And then who knows where he would go from that. He was one of the people, he was a politician. You never questioned his motives.

He truly had the greater good in mind. Man. Yeah. And look what the political system did to him. Wow. Yeah. It's pretty devastating. It really is.

Yeah. Oh, the what ifs in that case. In addition to just what happened. Yeah. Everything about that is so tragic. Oh, the what ifs in that case, in addition to just what happened. I mean, everything about that is so tragic. Oh, yeah. So, again, the documentary is called An Honest Man. The Life of Bud Dwyer.

And it is so good. OK, I got to say, when you started this off and it was like about a treasurer and i was like i am not watching that documentary i'm gonna watch it now that sounds amazing you know sometimes people give you recommendations and you're like oh wow neat neat yeah not gonna check that out. A documentary about cross-stitching? Boy. That's unique. Thank you for this gift.

I never wanted it. Ever. Ever. Oh, my God. That was really good. Man. Man. Okay. I'll give you $10,000 if you can guess what I'm about to say next.

I have no idea. I have to go to the bathroom. Oh, God. This episode brought to you by Charmin. I wish. No, I don't even like Charmin. I like Cottonelle. You are kind of fancy.

I get the Costco $11 billion pack that's like embarrassing to take through the store. When I'm in a place that has nice toilet paper, I'm like, oh, these people know where to spend money. It's like the everyday luxury.

That's right. What is it about Cottonelle? It's got those ridges. I don't even know. Catches all the stuff, huh? Gross. I really think it's an aesthetic thing, actually. I doubt it.

Don't you think? No, I think it looks different than all the other toilet paper. I thing, actually. I doubt it. Don't you think? No, I think it looks different than all the other toilet paper. I think that's why I like it. I agree it looks different, but I think it catches stuff with those reaches. I don't know what the hell's coming out of you that you're having to catch. Oh, I see. I see. We're going to be like that.

Brandy poops little pebbles. She doesn't even need toilet paper. She just has it kind of as decoration in the bathroom. It's more of a decorative thing. I like those little soaps. When guests come over, they can use this. This is a horrible sponsor. This is disgusting.

This episode of the Gaming history this episode of the gaming historian is brought to you by let's go to court that would be great we'd really be going places yeah if we could sponsor yes an episode of the show man we'd be taken off then. You know, you would think being with him for nine years would be enough leverage. No. No. Nope, it's not. There's no way.

He was very reluctant to do that guest spot. And that shout out on the Q&A video. Yeah, which came at the very end. He's like, hopefully people won't be watching anymore. Did you see someone commented on that? No! Someone commented. They were like, I listened to the podcast. I really

liked it. And I think they said they were subscribed now. What? I know! This is amazing! I know! You know, I know the passwords to all his social media. I could just hack in there. This episode of Let's Go to Court is brought to you by The Gaming Historian. The Gaming Historian gives you all the info you need to know about the history of video games.

Would you like 16 classic episodes of The Gaming Historian? Plus a whole bunch of never-before-seen footage? You're in luck. The Gaming Historian Volume 1 Blu-ray is available now at TheGamingHistorian.com or GamingHistorian.com He schooled us and let us know you can get to the website either way i like that we've done this so much that you know everything about the blue when you said 16 classic episodes i was like whoa that's that's next level shit right there are you ready for this i am i'm i'm concerned okay because i love

wendy's chili do you really i do okay um that's interesting to know because this whole time i was like i don't know that i've ever ordered chili in a restaurant. It is. It's good? So good. And it's very healthy. Do you know this story? I don't.

You don't know this story? Oh my God, Brandi. I don't. What? Yes. Okay. Buckle up. Okay.

Hold on. Click. I like how you did an airplane one. I did. You had them on both sides. That's right. Where the hell are we going? Is this better?

Oh, that's the wrong fucking way. Or maybe I'm in the passenger seat. I guess I'm in the passenger seat. You're driving this bus. Brandi, have you been in a car yet? Oh, I've never been in a car. I take an Uber everywhere I go. No, I guess I would have to take a school bus because Ubers have seatbelts. I was picturing you arriving here on horseback.

Take a horse and buggy everywhere. With your laptop on the back. That's right. I'm Amish. I'm just not, you know, completely conforming to the Amish. Sure. You got to rebel somehow. Zach's got the Amish beard gotta rebel somehow got the amish beard

that was really funny the other day at trivia night where like norman was talking about how he couldn't grow a beard because he wasn't a big boy yet and then we look over in zack's there with like this massive beard like ultra beard it's, because that can't grow hair on his head. It's a trade-off. That's right. Okay. Are you ready? I am.

March 22nd, 2005. Anna Ayala and her family are eating in a Wendy's in San Jose, California. She ordered the chili, so she's just eating her chili. All of a sudden, she bites into something hard and long. So she spat it out. As soon as she got a look at it, she started gagging and screaming. People from other tables come over. They're kind of poking at it like

what the hell is that that's when they your face right now that's when they they realize it's a severed human finger oh god it's about an inch and a half long and all the news stories included this detail so i'm gonna include it too it was well groomed just so you know like to me that seems like the last of your concerns at that point yeah like oh it was a dirty one there's a fucking it's somebody's severed finger has been been in your mouth so but it looks like they used a nail file recently so she freaked out understandably yes uh at some point someone called the police and of course the police found out what was going on they're like oh my gosh we've got to get public health officials in here right now yeah there's like i mean what what are the health consequences for having a

human finger in your mouth who knows and like what else is going on in the back of this wendy's holy shit everyone is like yeah you're you're definitely right That is a human finger. So it's like what? It's like a second knuckle up? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

It's like. All right. All right. I'm on board. And remember, remember, it was well-groomed. Well-groomed. Not anything gross. No, certainly not.

We'd all be happy to have it in our mouths disgusting i don't want anybody's i don't want a stranger's non-severed finger in my mouth oh my god i I am dying. Because for some reason I pictured like, we're out to eat at lunch and some stretcher just comes up and pokes us. May I get you ladies any more iced tea? And boom. So you're saying, just so I'm clear, you would not enjoy that i would not okay

gotcha not at all interested so at this point everyone's like what the hell is going on i'm just remembering what the last time i did your hair i wasn't paying very good attention when i was like i don't know i was like part ditch your hair. I wasn't paying very good attention. I was like, I don't know. I was like parting your hair off or something. And I put my finger in your mouth. I totally forgot. That was hilarious.

Just let it happen. Hold on. Hold on. You had me facing away from the mirror. I didn't know your finger was gonna come in my mouth all of a sudden i had a mouthful of hand as i recall i did not Well, I wasn't a stranger. That's right.

It's acceptable. And I do have to say, you have very well-groomed hands. I do. Your manicure is always on point. If you'd not had the manicure, we would have had issues. I had totally forgotten. I forgot about it, too. It was probably blacked out because it was so traumatic probably so like i said everyone is just freaking out they're like what the hell is going on first of all whose finger is that second okay hopefully this was some weird accident, right?

Third, ew, what if it wasn't a weird accident? What if this is something disgusting that someone did on purpose? Holy crap. Tons of questions. Oh, God, there's so many questions. No answers, just a severed finger. How much blood is in there? Oh.

Step one in the police investigation what do you think step one is uh find out whose finger it is sure fingerprint it you know what you would have been pretty good on this investigation i mean that was a pretty good pretty good thing so step one was they were like okay we're gonna go to the back of this Wendy's. Everybody hold up your hands. Anybody missing a finger? Yes. Can you imagine? I bet they were like, hopefully we can just knock this out real quick.

Everybody put your hands up. Did anybody lose half a finger? Everybody think back really hard. Somebody looks down. Oh, shit, I did! Oh, no! I was stirring the chili. Is this relevant?

So, everyone had all their fingers. Okay. And so... I feel like that... Somehow I felt like it would make me feel better to one of the employees. I think it would nail down where it came from real quick. Yeah. Like, let's not let this mystery drag on.

Yeah. Let's put a bow on this. Yeah. No. Okay. Police are like, we've got a real mystery on our hands. So police sent the finger to the medical examiner and the medical examiner is like okay good news is that this finger is not badly decomposed you got a fresh one. Oh, God. And you'll like this. It still has its fingerprints.

See? Told you. Fingerprint it. I'm a fucking detective. So they're like, you know, we can enter this in the National Criminal Database. It's a long shot, but we need to figure out who this belongs to. And, you know, we can do that. Okay. So all the while, we can do that. Okay.

So all the while, Anna is talking to the media. Yeah. She's like, yeah, I'll tell you the story. Yeah. Here it goes. So she was on Good Morning America. She talked to her local San Jose paper, and she goes, it's disgusting. You're playing with the whole human race.

It's a taste I have never tasted in my whole life. Um. Okay, I'm confused by that statement. Yeah. Playing with the whole human race. What does that mean? I don't know. I assumed it was like a weird cannibalism thing.

I didn't understand completely where she was going. I took it as like, she's so distraught that she just like, words are coming out. That's how I took it. Okay. So while Anna is talking to the media, investigators took a bunch of different tactics all at once. First, they looked at the chili. What are the ingredients? Where do they come from?

They start tracing everything back. The beans, the tomatoes, the beef, the seasonings. They go to the workers in the bean factory. Show us your fingers. They go to the tomato canning. Yo, show us your fingers. So that was the plan they were gonna go you know investigate this whole chili making process yeah all over the country and they told the media because you know this was huge national news people wanted answers

they told the media look this is gonna take while. Sit tight for three or four weeks while we go make sure everyone has their fingers. Oh my gosh. At the same time, they're like, you know what would be great? Is if we could figure out when this finger got into the chili. Yeah, that would be great. But how do you even go about figuring that out? I don't even know. Here's an idea. Figure out whether or not the finger is cooked. Oh, God.

Because think about it. Yeah. If the finger wasn't cooked in the chili properly, you know, there's certain degrees, you know, whatever, then it would have been planted by someone after the fact. Yeah. So that would kind of clear up some questions. The finger was not fully cooked.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So it had to have been put in there on site? Mm-hmm. What? What? put in there on site what okay definitely lost my place big time lost my place like you know what you know where i lost my place i wrote they had a fresh one. And I realized I'd already said that. I must have really liked that line because I wrote it twice. So about a week after she first bit into that finger, first, she didn't do it a second time. When she bit into the finger, she's like, actually, maybe it's an acquired second taste.

So Anna Ayala was was like that was disgusting i am traumatized let's go to court so she immediately filed a claim against the franchise owner which it's my understanding it's like the baby step number one before you file a lawsuit. So she was planning to sue this guy. She didn't specify any damages yet. But here's the thing. At first, when this first happened, everyone was like, oh, my God, this poor woman. This is disgusting. This is unnatural. We haven't heard anything nasty in our lives

but when everyone in the chili making process had all their fingers and all the Wendy's workers had all their fingers did she plant the finger in her own chili? people started to wonder

oh my god so people got suspicious of Anna yeah and no one was more suspicious or more pissed off So, people got suspicious of Anna. Yeah. And no one was more suspicious or more pissed off than Wendy's. I bet.

Because this was a PR disaster for Wendy's. Business at all their locations suffered, but especially the San Jose restaurant and the restaurants in kind of that California area. Dozens of workers were laid off at the California locations. This was bad. So they set up an anonymous hotline for people to call in about the missing finger. They hired a bunch of private investigators. Oh, my gosh. And they offered a $50,000 reward for information about the finger. They also did a free frosty giveaway just to get people back in stores.

Right. Because nobody wanted to go in. There was one article I read, I should have written this down, where a reporter went into a Wendy's and was like, hey, I noticed you people are still eating here. Have you heard the news? And the lady was like, yeah, I noticed you people are still eating here. Like, have you heard the news? And the lady was like, yeah, you know, I'm going to order the chili because I like the chili. And I'm just going to look at it real closely and pray.

Oh, God. You know, I'm thinking the odds of a finger ending up in the chili are so low that if it's already happened, I'm probably good. You wouldn't wonder what else could be going on. So, you know, they're like, please come back to our restaurant. Take these free Frosties. You don't have to buy anything.

Yeah. We promise there are no fingers in it. We promise there are no fingers. Finger free Frosties. anything yeah we promise there are no fingers in it finger free for us meanwhile police start circling around anna yeah this rumor starts going around that her her aunt her aunt had recently died. And left behind a finger. So that was just a rumor going around. But people are kind of like, yikes. Did anyone see that corpse? Like, oh my gosh.

What? Dig her up! Just a standard finger check so hands up show your fingers so they searched her house they interviewed her family meanwhile anna's getting kind of mad she's like everybody be cool you're stressing out. You're treating me like a criminal here. I'm the victim. And you know what?

This is so stressful that I'm not, I'm no longer going through with this lawsuit against Wendy's anymore. I'm dropping it. What? Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? That clearly she's fucking lying. She's willing to just drop the lawsuit.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm the victim. So I'm going to drop the lawsuit? No. Bullshit. Makes no sense. No. Are you starting to feel better about eating chili at Wendy's?

Well, I'm thinking you're probably going to just like lull me into a false sense of security and then hit me over the head with a bloody stump or something. The secret ingredient in Wendy's chili is severed finger finger they're just supposed to ladle it out before they it's like a bay leaf yeah it's good luck if you get the finger it's like the gross hunk of pork and baked beans so at this point she starts getting kind of snippy with the media too because you know she'd been out in front of the media this whole time now she's like she told one news crew where would i get a damn finger fair question that is a fair question she's like you guys are dragging my name through

the mud everyone is treating me like a terrorist does she say that yes that's not a direct quote but the terrorist part is yeah which i don't really know much about how we treat terrorists but i suspect it's not um getting a search warrant for your las vegas is home and yeah so police were like yeah noted okay yeah they keep looking into her background and they discover that she sure likes to sue folks wow she's been involved in like a dozen lawsuits i'm just going to tell you two of them. She sued General Motors because she claimed a wheel fell off her car. Okay. She also sued El Pollo Loco, and for that one, she claimed that the food made her daughter very sick. So she got $30,000.

Wow. Now, El Pollo Loco says we did not give her anything but she claims she got thirty thousand dollars okay okay by the way they ran the finger through the fingerprint database um it didn't match anything so that no dice okay the look on your face i don't think i've ever seen this look before it's not a criminal finger then. Not a criminal finger. Not anyone who's been caught. Yeah, that's true.

Then, on April 22nd, 2005, exactly one month after she first bit into the finger, police arrested Anna. They charged her with attempted grand larceny because by that point wendy's estimated that they'd lost about 2.5 million dollars in revenue which sounds incorrect that sounds way too low i agree yeah so don't trust me on that here's the interesting thing police came out and they called it a hoax they said this was all a hoax they said the finger definitely did not come from wendy's everybody go back eat your chili yeah but they stopped short of actually accusing anna of planting a finger yeah and they still didn't

say or maybe even know whose finger it was. They just said this was a hoax. Her husband was arrested at the same time for unpaid child support. So they've got both these people locked up. In her first court appearance, she was very showy. She mouthed I love you to her family and all of her supporters showed up in court in free Anna t-shirts. The bailiff made them turn them inside out. Oh, gosh.

By this point, things are cooking. The police have Anna and her husband Jaime in prison. They know this is a hoax, but they're still trying to figure out where the hell they found a finger and whose finger it is. That's when they got an anonymous tip through the Wendy's tip line.

Was it a finger tip? Okay. Journalists had a lot of fun with this case. I feel like I always have, I always do cases where the journalists find some way to sneak in a pun yeah and it's like the tipster fingered so and so and i hope the judge gives her the finger you know there's not there's not a lot you can do with the finger but finger foods they had fun with that too okay anyway the caller says hey one of jaime's co-workers is missing a finger

so police go to 36 year old brian rossiter and sure enough he's missing a finger you know why i've noticed that like at the very beginning when I held up my hands, you seemed so disturbed and I thought it was kind of fun. Truly, none of the listeners will benefit from me waving all my fingers around. So this guy's missing a finger. So they just pummel him with questions he claims he had nothing to do with the hoax here's what he said he's like look i lost part of my finger at work when it got caught in a mechanical truck lift then i sold my severed finger to high mate for a hundred dollars tail as old as time oh god his story is you and i sold my severed finger to a guy at work that's all i know so but they keep pressing him evidently that wasn't quite enough evidently they had more

questions yeah imagine that yeah they're so nosy the police finally he's like yeah okay they did tell me what they were gonna do and then they offered me two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to keep my mouth shut wow they sure thought they were gonna get a lot of money well i'm i'm sure if you really did bite into a severed finger at wendy's i mean i'm sure you could get a lot of money. I don't want to find out. Listen, Brandi, just hold real still. I need all of my fingers. Not the one that went in my mouth. I work with my hands.

Take that finger and mouth treatment off your list of services. Have you ever done that to anyone else? No! Can you imagine? I'm not sure that I'm completely to blame. As I recall, you like whipped your tongue to the side and your mouth was wide open. You were just asking for it that's it

that's it I'm leaving a Yelp review oh god hey you're gonna love it go to Brandy she will stick her whole hand in your mouth

so meanwhile Anna and her husband are like, we are super innocent. And the district attorney is like, actually, you guys suck. And you're probably thinking I'm going to offer you a plea deal. I am not. There's no way. So this goes on for months. Anna feels like a really cool celebrity.

Investigators obviously listened in on her prison phone calls. And in them, she bragged about how all the inmates knew who she was and wanted her autograph. Wow. Mm-hmm. Finally, in September, the couple pled guilty to conspiracy to... Sorry. In September, the couple pled guilty to conspiracy to file a false insurance claim and attempted grant theft. So at the sentencing, a bunch of Wendy's employees testified.

Because they'd been through a lot. They had to do lie detectors. They were investigated. The guy who made the chili and also the cashier who sold the chili to Anna both testified. And they talked about how horrible it was to be under suspicion of something so nasty. Particularly the guy who made the chili. I think he'd worked there for like 10 years. Yeah. And he was like, you know, everyone, you know, people thought that I did this nasty horrible thing.

Everyone, you know, people thought that I did this nasty, horrible thing. Yeah. That had to be just awful to be accused of something like that. Or to even have people think that you were capable of doing something like that. Oh my gosh. When her turn came to talk, Anna cried and pled for leniency. She told the judge the whole thing had been, quote, a moment of poor judgment. No.

Nope. Why not, Brandi? No, because it was spread out. There was so much planning going into this. It is not a moment of poor judgment. You sound just as heartless as the judge anna was sentenced to nine years in prison wow her husband was sentenced to 12 what yeah how did he get more i don't really know and i wonder if it's because it was his co-worker, so maybe he was... I don't really know.

Wow. Or maybe he also got the child support stuff tacked on. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, someone who might have researched this better knows. Maybe, I mean, yeah. But you're not listening to them right now. So at the sentencing, Judge Edward Davila said that the couple, quote,

lost their moral compass and was overtaken by greed. Yeah. Yep. I think that's a nice way of putting it. I agree. And he was like, you too need to pay $170,000 in restitution to the Wendy's employees. What you did was messed up. Yeah.

And you also need to pay Wendy's $21.8 million. Well, that's going to be a little difficult. Wendy's thought the same thing. Because they don't have $21.8 million. I doubt they have the $175,000. Yeah, if you're biting into a severed finger at Wendy's, you probably don't have a lot going on in your bank account. Yeah.

finger at Wendy's you probably don't have a lot going on in your bank account yeah so Wendy's was like yeah we're never gonna see that kind of money from these two weirdos how about this we'll call it even if you agree to never make money off of this scheme oh yeah that's good I think so too because it's like okay you're not to get some weird book deal. No. This is not going to be some movie where, you know, people keep repeating this story. Yeah. I think that's really good. I just burped. Excuse me.

How many episodes in a row now is that, Kristen? Well, see, we're recording them kind of out of order, so I don't know. So Anna thought her sentence was harsh. Way too harsh. Prison was getting less and less fun. Yeah, nobody's, like, wanting her picture or autograph anymore. That's exactly right. People stopped asking for her autograph

and started calling her Finger Lady. Finger Lady. Finger Lady. So she's like, you know what? This just will not do. This is too much prison time. Can't handle it. And I really don't think I should have to pay those Wendy's workers. This is bullshit.

So she appealed. And she won. Wow, on what grounds? So here's the deal. She still had to pay the workers. And she had to stay in prison. But the appellate court found that the judge added more time to her sentence than he should have based on, and I'm quoting here, his own fact finding and not a jury's conclusion.

Okay. So she got out of prison after four years. Wow. So what happened to her? She lived a quiet life and now she's doing great. She just got an adult coloring book. You're making this up. She went on to sue somebody else.

You know all this up. She went on to sue somebody else. You know all my tricks. So in 2013, she made headlines again. Oh, God. This time. This is so fucked up. This is really bad. Not that the Wendy's thing was great. Yeah, the Wendy's thing was pretty fucked up.

Same with the General Motors thing. Yeah, it's all fucked up. Okay. same with the general motors thing yeah it's all fucked up okay so she called the police and said that two people had shot her son in the ankle her adult son she gave a vivid description of the people who did it and it's kind of unclear some news stories made it sound like there were two people involved some said one at any rate you know and, and her son was like, yes, this happened to me. He told the offers officers. They did this to me for no rhyme or reason. Police immediately went after the suspects, because as I understand it, like she might have actually pointed to actual people, not just like, oh, some guy with black hair, you know.

Right. No, they officers knew who to go question they apparently interviewed a guy they did forensic testing to see if he had gunshot residue in his hand on his hands you are not going to believe this but it was all made up no shit uh-huh yeah oh my god the truth was her son had accidentally shot himself in the ankle on accident, but he was a convicted felon. He'd accidentally done it on accident? Did I say accidentally? Listen, it was an accident.

And I know that's a big word, so I'm just going to explain. That's when you do something not on purpose. So since he was a convicted felon, he obviously a gun yes yeah but oopsie when you shoot yourself it's kind of proof that you had a gun yeah uh-huh so they decided that their only move here was to lie to police and frame somebody yeah yeah great so for that lie anna was sentenced to another two years wow yeah i feel like she's really not getting much jail time for this no repeat offender should be stacking up you would think so i'd like to end with some information from an interview anna gave the first time she got out of prison oh gosh i think this is funny because to me this shows the fact that she said this in the interview shows that this has been bugging her for a while and she does not want people to think she was dumb

she wants everyone to know that she did in fact cook that finger she cooked it in chili at home using the wendy's chili recipe she wants you to know okay wow thanks for clearing that up i'm so i feel so much better that you had the foresight to think that through uh-huh and also that you decided you weren't going to bite into a raw human finger. That'd be disgusting. Yes. Yeah, I thought that was really, really funny. Like, I can't say I didn't do it, but I can say I tried to cover my tracks a little better than that. I'm not some dummy with a raw finger in my chili wow

also relevant she is banned from wendy's for life oh no how do you carry on she is currently trying to appeal that so that's the story gosh so you really didn't remember no oh my gosh i didn't know that about that do you think i i eat wendy's chili a lot how often are we talking i don't know when it's cold i'll eat it a couple times a week. I really like it. And you've, wait, and you've never heard the story of the Wendy's chili? No. Okay, I've got to be honest. I, even though I have known, you know, this was a hoax, I can't order the chili at Wendy's. I've thought about it on occasion, but even just like, I don't know.

I just can't do it. It's really good. Finger licking good? Gross. Are you going to think of this every time you read it? Yes! What do you mean, am I going to think of this? Yes! It's probably ruined for me now.

It's moments like these that I wish Zach wasn't off the the grid because I would like to text him and be like, can I get like a plastic severed finger? And the next time you see Brandy eating chili, just like stick it in there somehow. Can we make this happen? Hey, this is how Zach and I will communicate. Zach, you know how to get in touch. This is how Zach and I will communicate. Zach, you know how to get in touch. You have to communicate through the podcast.

You make it sound like he does it on his cell phone. Well, I don't know his number. Well, I'm never giving it to you now. Shit. You showed your hand too soon, Kristen. Well, I just wanted to chat with Beck. That's all, you know. Thinking about getting you a present and just wanted to talk it over with him first.

I'm going to find a way to ruin Taco Bell for you. No. Don't you dare. Haven't you heard the time that somebody found a used condom in their country shut up that is so nasty I just made that up right now don't worry oh god yeah

that's do not ruin Taco Bell hey if Taco Bell hasn't ruined itself for you I know I know that there's a lot that's gonna there was that Taco Bell lawsuit

about their meat yeah the dog food thing right it's like lower it's like a lower grade than meat that is used in dog food. I mean, we all had to know it, though. That's the magic of it. It's like, hmm, this doesn't taste like any meat that I've ever had before.

And why does it burn when I poop? Okay, speaking of burn when I poop oh god no this isn't really that bad the other day i went upstairs and i was like it kind of smells up here but i couldn't like figure out why and i was like norman do you smell that and he's like no what are you talking about and i was like okay maybe it's just me but then you know i went downstairs came back up again and i was like, Norman, do you smell that? And he's like, no, what are you talking about? And I was like, okay, maybe it's just me. But then, you know, I went downstairs, came back up again, and I was like, no, it definitely smells weird up here. And so I went into our bedroom. I mean, couldn't find anything.

Went into my office, couldn't find anything. And so finally I was like, Norman, do you have, like, food or something in your office? Do you have, like, Norman, do you have like food or something in your office? Do you have like old food? And he goes, do I have old food? Which is like the classic stall tactic, I think. What? I'm like, yeah. Like what?

What's in your trash can right now? He had an old Chipotle bowl. It doesn't smell that good when it's fresh. And he's like, I don't smell anything over here. It's like, oh, really? You've got a week old Chipotle bowl in your trash can? Oh, my gosh. So another thing this week i realized because i was thinking about our

april fools episode because the reason i did this hoax was because i loved your balloon boy guy so i started thinking about pranks again and how i told you at the end of that episode about the best pranks that ever been pulled on me i forgot the best one of all you did yes lay it on me by far lay it on me i can't wait this is a long con okay what a long con so it was the beginning of summer like five years ago okay and um you know at the beginning of summer my parents usually have a family get together and you know they have their house is like on that lake and so they'll put out a big raft in the middle of the lake we you know can swim out to it whatever so my sister kyla and norman were out on the raft my dad was on the raft jay was out swimming kind of around the raft i get out there i start swimming around okay i and i look and you know the raft is anchored and tied to the rope is a pair of men's swim trunks. And I'm like, whose swim trunks are these?

And Kyla goes, they're Jay's. And I looked at Jay and he nodded. And I was like, I was just like so perplexed. And I looked at the trunks and like, sure enough, yeah, those were the ones he'd been wearing. And I was just dumbfounded. And Kyla goes, yeah, he's swimming around naked. And, you know, Jay's swimming right by me. And I was like, what?

And, yeah, I mean, I was just like, what the hell? Yeah. That day, Norman and I drove home. The whole car ride home. We're like, what the hell is up with Jay? Swimming naked. Why would he be swimming naked at a family event? Yes. Super weird. I feel like that's a normal question yes to contemplate and i mean he was swimming right by me completely i and i was

like this is weird i have to totally reassess my opinion and you know over the course of the summer my parents have more gets get togethers out there there's more swim time i'm not getting in the lake you know i'm not getting in there with jay getting naked no more naked jay nope i'll stay inside thank you very much and of course you know every time like kyla makes some crack about about Jay being naked on the car ride home. Norm's like, God, he was naked again out there. And I am just like, this is the weirdest thing. I hate this.

This is so bizarre. Yeah. So then one time, we're all together, and Kyla brings up again about jay swimming naked in the lake and jay and kyla and norman are just cracking up and i noticed that jay was being kind of quiet uh-huh and i thought about that a long time and i remember i had a long commute to work in those days i kept thinking about i was like you know what who are we to judge yeah and I started to feel really really bad that you had been so uncomfortable about it like and that I'd been so judgmental and you know like that's not cool and I thought you know if if he feels

comfortable doing that and he wants to do that why do I need to be this uptight so I and I just like just because I like Jay so much, like Jay's, you've met Jay. Jay's a great guy. And I thought, you know, yeah, if this is something he does, it's something he does. Look, he listens to the podcast. So I think he's amazing. That's right. We think all our listeners are amazing.

Which speaking of, I'm'm gonna have to run this story by him to make sure it's okay that i say all this so anyway you know another swim trip comes comes by norman we're in the car again he's like man jay was out there naked again and i was like okay time out we are not making fun of that anymore and norman starts laughing and i was like no and i got really mad and i was like that is it you know we've made him feel bad he feels embarrassed this is not okay yeah we can't keep making fun he's a member of our family yes yes yes absolutely and you know norman's still kind of giggly, and I was pissed off. Next time we all get together, like months have gone by since that first time out on the lake.

Jay's out in the lake. The rest of my family, we're all in the living room area where you can overlook the whole thing. And Kyla says, oh, there's Jay out there swimming naked again. And everybody starts laughing. And I was like, okay, okay, everybody. We need to stop this. And I see some smiles. And I'm like, no, no, no, no.

I'm being serious. He doesn't like it. We've hurt his feelings. We need to cool it with the jokes. Get over it. That's when i find out that the joke had been on me the whole time he had never been naked out there turned out he he had two swim trunks on like the one underneath was more like a swimmer's swim trunk yeah it's like a tighter yeah but for modesty reasons he had the longer ones

that he would wear when he was like walking around and stuff but this whole time i thought he was swimming naked right by me. And because I was so diligent about not looking at him, like I never knew that he was clearly wearing. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. That's a good one. I do like that. Yeah.

You know what we should say right now? What? If you've made it to this point in the episode, we want your feedback about the audio quality. Yes, please. Because we have some real microphones this time. These are so fancy, I'm afraid to touch it. Yes. These are the real deal. If you've heard a difference in this episode,

if I didn't sound super quiet, if Brandy didn't sound like she was talking from inside a tin can. Yeah. If you're hearing a difference, please, please, please let us know. Because then we'll decide whether or not we need to return these and just go back to the old nice. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, like, leave us a comment on our Facebook page.

Send us a message on there. Send us an email at lgtcpodcasts at gmail. Leave us a comment on our Instagram at lgtcpodcast at gmail um leave us a comment on our instagram at lgtcpodcast and 80 of you have our numbers so just text us let's be real mom if it sounds good no this is true my dad called me the other day and he's like, hey, the audio sounded really good on that last episode. I said, did you finish the episode? He goes, no, I just listened to Brandy's part.

Which we have issues with that. But I was like, no, you need to hear like listen to the whole episode. Because that's when you know. Yeah, really. Anyway. If you enjoyed the episode, please tell a friend. Yes. Just one. Or five. Fifteen. Twenty five. if you enjoyed the episode please tell a friend yes just one or five 15 25 if you have 25 friends

i mean i am impressed i'm really jealous i feel like the older i get the circle just shrinks but then when i'm in a big crowd of people i'm like god get me out of here circle just shrinks. It does. More and more. It does. This is true. But then when I'm in a big crowd of people, I'm like, God, get me out of here. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know what I really want in this life. I mean, that's just the battle of being over 30. All right. Join us next week.

When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got most of my info from the San Francisco Chronicle, the LA Times, and the Associated Press. And I got my info from the documentary, Honest Man, The Life of Bud Dwyer. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours. Please don't take our word for it, though.

Go read their stuff. And as mentioned many times, watch the documentary. It's so good. Enter promo code.