Let's Go To Court! - 111: Chocolate Candy Murders & the Wrongful Conviction of Scott Hornoff

Episode Date: March 4, 2020

Brandi starts us off with a wrongful conviction story unlike any we’ve ever covered. When Scott Hornoff was put on trial for the murder of Victoria Cushman, he had every conceivable advantage. The prosecution didn’t rely on junk science. There were no faulty eye witnesses. He had good legal representation. He was a police officer. He is white. But that didn’t stop the jury from finding against him.  Then Kristin tells us about the infamous chocolate candy murders. Back in the late 1800’s, a married woman named Cordelia Botkin met a married man named John Preston Dunning. Cordelia was immediately smitten. John was hot, smart, a great writer, and an all-around good time. The two immediately struck up an affair. After a few years, John broke the news that he was leaving Cordelia. He wanted to go back to his candy-loving wife. Cordelia decided to stop him. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The heinous crimes of Cordelia Botkin,” by Heather Monroe on medium.com “Murder by mail: The story of San Francisco’s most infamous female prisoner,” by Katie Dowd for the San Francisco Chronicle “Candy from a stranger: The Cordelia Botkin Case of 1898,” by Thomas Duke in 1910, posted on historicalcrimedetective.com “Cordelia Botkin” entry on Wikipedia “Mrs. Cordelia Botkin pleads with her judges for her life,” Dec. 23, 1898, The San Francisco Call In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Tangled Up in Blue: The Scott Hornoff Story” by Seamus McGraw, The Crime Library “Jeffrey Scott Hornoff’s Murder Conviction Is Exposed As A Sham When The Real Killer Confesses” by Hans Sherrer, Justice Denied “Killer's confession frees convicted man” by The Associated Press “State v. Hornoff” casetext.com  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about the chocolate candy murders. And I'll be talking about the wrongful conviction of Scott Hornoff.

Oh, I hate these. I love chocolate and murders. This is, okay, actually. Chocolate, check. Candy, check. Murders, check. This case was recommended. Actually. Chocolate. Check. Candy. Check. Murders. Check. This case was recommended to you.

And I was like. Sorry. I'm taking it. Just because you say in the discord that this sounds like a Brandy case. Doesn't mean that Brandy's going to be the first to see it. And I didn't see it at all. So. Let that be a lesson to all of you on our discord.

And if you might be thinking to yourself. My goodness. What's yourself, my goodness, how do I become a part of this? Well, for just $5 a month, you can join our Discord. It's like a 90s chat room. Hang out with us. You also get access to bonus episodes. Are we up to nine yet? Eight. Oh, good.

I oversold. Eight bonus episodes. You want nine? Stick around for another month. At the $7 level, that's the Supreme. What? Core. What?

Oh, God. Said like a true pro. Then you get all of that, plus a sticker and our lovely autographs and a monthly video. Ooh. Do we want to say what this most recent video was? Yeah, it's a doozy. Go ahead, Brandi. It's terrible.

So we did. Don't say it's terrible. Then people won't sign up. No, it's like so cringy. You want to watch it. We did a react video to Matt Haas, which if you recall, Kristen's wonderful description of the bold guy versus parkour girl case. So we sat down and, you know, whatever thumbnail appealed to us whatever title appealed

to us one was bold guy versus bitchy girl and we were like well we gotta yeah gotta watch that. Most horrifying 13 minutes of my life. It was terrible. But also entertaining. So if you're interested sign up today. That's patreon.com slash LGTC podcast. Hold on. Hold on. I see you getting ready to just jump on in. I wasn't. I was going to talk about stuff real fast.

Oh, OK. Talk about stuff. About what we could be doing tonight. Oh, well. Instead of this. Well, I wasn't going to, like, make it a downer. I'm super excited to be doing this. OK.

You know where we could be right now, Kristen? Yeah, at the Dashboard Professional Concert. At the Dashboard Professional Concert. At the Dashboard Professional Concert. They are here in our town tonight with the Get Up Kids. I know. High school, Brandi and Kristen are... I can't even put it into words. But here we are.

Yeah. We had Lovely Italian. Oh, so good. And by that, I mean Norman. Just kidding. Okay, but really, it's an after dark episode obviously and this time on the mic we have david sitting in salutations he's much more formal than norm he's wearing a tux for this very moment tux which is you know

what should have happened all along i think yeah i, why can't we get Norm at this level? Right? Pssh. Pssh. We got a Wally Pips situation. You got more stuff you want to talk about? No, I, you know, I'm a business cat, so I plug the Discord. I let people know up front we've got David in the booth here.

Like we have a booth. On the ones and twos. Yeah. And I'm just ready to roll. All right. got extra stuff uh no all right no quit stalling ma'am i know you're stalling because you've got a terrible case wrongful convictions are so sad this is this is a wrongful conviction unlike any wrongful conviction that we've covered on this podcast before it's kind of interesting um all of the other ones have been so boring. Kind of interesting because the typical things

that are usually involved with a wrongful conviction are not involved in this case. Scott Hornoff is a white male. Excellent legal representation. There was no junk science involved. Okay. And no, like, erroneous eyewitness testimony. I am intrigued.

Intrigued, right? Yes. Okay. So first of all, shout out to the crime library, of course. My boy Seamus McGraw over there. He has my favorite name ever. I'm considering naming the baby Seamus McGraw. Wow, last name too, huh?

Yeah, no, that's the middle name. Seamus McGrathond. I had an excellent article on this. So let's jump in and let's talk about Jeffrey Scott Hornoff. He goes by Scott. His first name is Jeffrey. He dropped that like a bad habit. Tato, okay. It's the summer of 1989 and we're in Warwick, Rhode Island. And here are the things that we know about Scott going in. Okay. He is going to be convicted of a crime in this case. Wow. Spoiler alert. It's a bad crime. It murder okay he's completely innocent of that yet some of his own actions led to his wrongful conviction because he lied to police because he was guilty of something oh no was it some dumb shit like smoking pot he was guilty of cheating on his wife oh and he was afraid when he was initially questioned in this case,

that his wife would find out before he could tell her. So initially, he lied in that never left him. It carried him through this entire case, and ultimately led to his wrongful conviction. Oh, my God. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Is this your way of saying that honesty is always the best policy? Honesty is always the best policy. And I think the thing that drew me so much to this case is I think there's people out there that are like, yeah, wrongful convictions happen. But, you know, I don't have any of the like, you know, the typical stuff that would lead to a wrongful conviction.

But yeah, this could happen to literally anyone. And it did to Scott Hornoff. Okay. So it's 1989. Scott is a 27-year-old police officer on the Warwick, Rhode Island police force. He's married. He has a kid. Things are going pretty good.

Somewhere, I think it's like august 11th 1989 this woman that he has been having an affair with that he had recently ended the affair that it was a very brief affair her name was vicky cushman okay in a very brief affair we'll talk about how they met but he'd recently ended that affair and she didn't show up for work. Not like her at all. She actually was like the manager of this sporting store. Very big in Rhode Island. They sold ski gear and like scuba gear. So diving stuff.

That's actually how she knew Scott. Because Scott was on the dive team for the police force. Wow. Okay. His scuba tanks refilled there. Whatever. On this particular day, August 11th, she doesn't show up for work. So at like 10 o'clock, her employees are like, okay, this is super weird.

Because she actually lived in an apartment that was attached to the sporting goods store. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was like upstairs, like this little tiny apartment. Good luck hiding out for a sick day in there. Exactly. And so they go up, they knock on our door. No answer. They ended up making entry into the apartment and they find a... Why do you always say make entry into the home? I don't know. Cause that's what police say. I have noticed since like episode one, you say make entry into the home. i'm like i've never heard anyone say that that's what police say i don't know well who are you officer brandy

okay continue they made bust down the fucking door there you go there you go or they opened the door they walked in i don't know because i don't know exactly i don't know if they had to break in i don't know if they had to break in. I don't know if they had a spare key. Somehow they get into her fucking apartment, Kristen. Oh, well, I didn't expect all this aggression. And there Vicky is laying on the floor of her living room. There's fucking blood everywhere. And she's obviously dead. Right. So very alarming. They call the police. Police respond. They kind of look over the scene. And there's not a ton to go on. It doesn't look like a burglary. It looks like there's nothing missing.

They notice when they get there that there are some scuff marks on the outside of the building, like someone has scaled the building. And there is a window that I believe goes like over her kitchen sink or something like that, that is open. And they think maybe that's how whoever got in this apartment got in by opening that window, scaling the side of the building, whatever. Inside, there is obviously Vicky's body. There is an antique jewelry box that has been like there is an antique jewelry box that has been like smashed on the ground and it is clear that she has been killed with a large fire extinguisher it's a 17 pound fire extinguisher she had like a wood-burning stove in her apartment it would always sat next to the stove and so that is the murder weapon and then on the ground there's a pair of yellow like kitchen gloves that are inside out.

Like someone had taken them off and thrown them on the ground. Looking. Oh, and there's also I'm sorry. There's also a Rolodex in the apartment near the jewelry box, I believe. OK. But that's really it for evidence. What does what evidence does the Rolodex provide other than just like these are the people she knows? Yeah, I mean, that would really that would really be it.

What they do find is a sealed letter that Vicki Cushman had written to Scott Hornoff. And everyone knows Scott Hornoff because this is the police department that he works for. He's like a night detective for this. He works like four to 11 or something like that as a detective on this police force. And so they read this letter and they're surprised to find out that this letter was written to him from Vicki

and it's all about how he just ended their affair and how she's devastated by it and please, let's just continue this please like you don't have to leave your wife that's fine just don't just don't cut things off with me so that's their first suspect right off of course it is so that day scott comes into work like any oh poor guy any normal day he's just like do to do to do yeah he's been there's been like this big party the night before where he got just like hammered but he doesn't have to come in till four so he's like no big deal no big deal he comes into work you know whatever normal thing and he's

immediately like pulled into an interrogation room he sits down with these two seasoned detectives they have him sit down they put on a tape recorder. And not like people from another precinct. No, his own police department. His co-workers, yes. They sit him down and they're like, do you know Vicki Cushman? And he's like, he immediately starts to panic a little bit. And at first he's like, I mean, yeah yeah she's the manager of the dive shop i get my i get my dive equipment you know serviced there i also get myself serviced okay brandy okay keep it classy

no he doesn't say that no and so they're like okay and have you had any kind of intimate relationship with her and in that moment he decides he could be honest, he could be honest, he could say, Yes, but I ended it. And that could very well be the end of all of it. But instead, he clams up. And he's like, Holy shit, if I say this on tape, this could be how my wife finds out before I have a chance to come clean to her. Yeah. And so he says no. And they're like, okay, and the interrogation kind of continues. Not much comes of it. Later that same day, he goes back to them. And he's like, guys, I was not truthful. Yeah, I just have to get this off my chest. I did have a relationship with her. I had just recently ended it. You know,

I said no in the moment because I'm worried about my wife finding out they have like a baby at home, like I think less than one year old. Yeah. And yeah, in that moment, protecting his wife or protecting himself. Yeah, really? Yeah. Yeah. Became more important to him than telling the truth. Yeah. Somehow by some weird coincidence or if you'll later believe the prosecution maybe a little police helping out police that initial interrogation was somehow not recorded oopsies yes there was a like a two page summary of it written up and given to the chief or whatever. But again, somehow that summary got misplaced. All of these pieces would line up to be how Scott gets convicted of this murder.

What we know is the investigation goes on is that they have no suspects. They determine. Well, they do have a suspect. They have no suspects other than Scott. Sure, sure. They eventually give him a lie detector test, which he passes with flying colors. But he should if he's a cop. Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. He should know exactly how to take a lie detector test. And they do an autopsy, obviously. They find out that Vicki had no defensive wounds. So she'd likely known her murderer very well. Someone she trusted, yeah. She was, again, like I said, she was found on the ground.

She'd been incapacitated in some way before she was killed with the fire extinguisher. Her skull was basically bashed in with the fire extinguisher. Her skull was basically bashed in with this fire extinguisher, multiple blows from a 17 pound fire extinguisher is what the medical examiner determined. That was her cause of death. There was some weird bruising like on her face and neck, not consistent with strangulation, unsure of how it got there. That was like one of the big mysteries in the autopsy. Couldn't match up what those marks went with. Additionally, she was clothed only in a bathrobe, but it was tied tightly. It was not open. She was not exposed in any way. And there were no signs of sexual assault. Huh. Okay. So very quickly, the Warwick Police Department rules out

Scott. They're like, we don't have a choice. We got to clear him. Like there's nothing here. There's nothing to tie into this. He's got an airtight alibi. What is it? He's been at a party the whole night before with a bunch of other police officers, a bunch of friends, his wife, his brother. Everybody says that he was there the entire night. Okay. There's no gaps where he wasn't seen. None of that. There are multiple people that can place him there the entire night from like early evening to the wee hours of the morning. So the case goes cold. For two years, it just kind of sits there. And finally, it gets turned over to like the state police. They decide they're going to look into it. They need to not have their own department investigating something where, you know, one of their own is a suspect.

And so the Rhode Island State Police start looking into this case. And immediately they're like, well, obviously, the Scott guy is our suspect. Yeah. How did you guys rule him out? So almost immediately when state police take this over, they're like, okay, there are some definite issues here. They immediately cleared the only suspect who happens to be one of their own. They can't find that interrogation tape, although there's some record of their own. They can't find that interrogation tape, although there's some record of it happening. They can't find the write up of that interrogation. And they're like, have we stumbled upon a cover up? Like, is that what's for sure? That's exactly

what you would think. Yeah. And his alibi are a bunch of policemen. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And so they're like, okay, let's kind of brush all of that aside. Let's look at this case and see who the evidence points us to. And so they look at the original crime scene investigation. And here are the things that stick out to them. of passion. There was overkill involved here. Yet someone in a moment of passion took the time to go to the kitchen and put on gloves. Right. Who would know to do that in 1989? A cop. A cop. 100%. That's what they believe. This has to be a cop. And we have a cop who has a tie to this and a motive he just ended an affair she was gonna go tell his wife obviously that's the next step she didn't want it to be done so she's gonna go tell the wife sure and so he killed her makes sense so this is the simplest explanation to the state police they're like how and usually the simplest explanation to the state police. They're like, how? And usually the simplest explanation is the right one. Is the right one.

Exactly. So they tell Scott like, hey, you're a suspect again. So in the meantime, Scott has never told his wife that he was a suspect in a murder investigation. Great. Never told his wife about the affair. They've had another kid by this point. Oh, geez. And so I think at this point he

like lets her in on it that they're mighty big of him yeah yeah yeah and she agrees to take a lie detector his brother agrees to take a lie detector test like scott says he'll take truth serum like is that even a thing it is a thing apparently so here's the problem they were fresh out of truth's truth serum a couple years had gone by yeah and scott's memories have gotten a little hazy of the events and his alibi and he can't exactly remember everything he said the first time and the investigators say that's just fine you know give us as close to the dates and times as you can just tell us what you do remember you know guess a little bit here and there but how that comes off in an interrogation is that scott has changed his story right his details don't line up the same you know things

are changing and you know it's real easy to keep the up the same. You know, things are changing. And, you know, it's really easy to keep the details the same if you're telling the truth. Yeah. Harder to keep them straight if you're lying. So again. And also if it's years later. Absolutely. If it's years later, it is more difficult. So this state police kind of at some point a grand jury is convened and they try to indict Scott and the grand jury does not return an indictment. And so more time goes by, like five years since the murder. And finally, they put together enough circumstantial evidence against Scott that he is charged with Vicki's murder. Wow.

Yeah. Meanwhile, in Scott's eyes, they've completely tunnel visioned this investigation. Vicky's Rolodex was found right there near her body. Yeah. And they didn't go through it. They didn't go through it. They didn't talk to a single person in it. So here's something about Vicky. Vicky was very well known in town. She was very popular. She ran this sport store. Well, if she managed a popular store, then yeah. And she dated a lot. Sure. And she dated very casually. She dated multiple men at the same time and nothing seriously. And she had recently ended a bunch of those relationships because she wanted to get serious with Scott. Oh. But nobody bothered to talk to anybody in her Rolodex to find that out.

Hmm. So in 1994, Scott has tried for the murder of Vicki. Oh, my God. Yeah. With what evidence? The prosecution lines it up as a police cover up. We have someone who has a motive. It does smell like a police cover up.

Yeah. He lied to police. Sure. smell like a police cover up. It sure does. Yeah. He lied to police initially. That interrogation tape, we have seasoned detectives interrogating him who forgot to hit record. Yeah. That looks pretty suspicious. Yeah. They get 150 people to testify about different circumstantial aspects of this case. Wow. And there's not much the defense can do to contest it. They bring a bunch of people to speak to Scott's alibi,

but that's really all the evidence they have to contest the prosecution's theory. Yeah. He did lie. That stuff did go missing. It's a weird coincidence there's no cover-up here we promise but who does the jury believe the jury really believes someone's saying hey we promise there's no cover-up is it um is it truly a coincidence though i mean to me it sounds like his little police bros were trying to help him out and did lose that stuff. Not thinking about how that could actually be way worse.

And I think that is possible from Scott's own version, though. He and those other detectives did not get along. They were like two departments that didn't mesh well. OK. His detective, whatever detective portion he was with these guys were on the major crimes unit and his little detective group thought the major crimes unit like were fuck-ups and always bumbled their investigations and stuff like that so in scott's words they were not friends okay okay their reputation was to bumble investigations and then they lost the oh Oh, boy. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

And they they never looked into a list of potential suspects, which is essentially what the Rolodex was. Yeah. All right. Not great. Not great. As Scott was sitting in court, he remembers there being this moment where he was like, the prosecution's case is strong. You have that much circumstantial evidence. I sound guilty as fuck. That has to be so scary. Yeah. They interview him in this crime library article. And he says there's a moment where he was like sitting there and he was looking at this bracelet that he used to wear. And it was this bracelet that he had a weird attachment to. He didn't even know why he had the attachment to it.

Like he just bought it like at a souvenir shop one time and then like had worn it forever. Yeah. And he remembers looking down at it and like calling his brother over and giving it to his brother. And he asked his brother to hold onto it for him because he just knew he was new. And that moment that he was going to get convicted.

Oh yeah. And he was, he was convicted and he was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of vicky cushman at his sentencing he i mean the jury deliberated for like no time at all yeah the prosecution's case sounds good yeah it does this is a police cover-up this guy's changed his story yeah he passed a lie detector test but most police would yeah he knows exactly how to do that and lie detector tests are dumb but they didn't know that i don't yeah and i'm not even sure that the results of the lie detector test were able to be admissible but i think they did talk about a little bit like how yeah he'd willingly taken one and all of this okay gotcha at his sentencing the

only thing he said was the only thing i'm guilty of here is breaking my vows so he was sentenced to life in prison and prison is not a nice place for a cop oh no no're right. He gets put in like a special like segregated unit at the Rhode Highland Adult State Correctional Institute where it's all police officers. They keep them out of the general population. Did you say the Rhode Highland? Rhode Island? What did I say? It sounded like Rhode Highland. Oh, at the Rhode Island State Correctional Institute.

Very good. And so they basically. That sounds terrible. It's like he's put in segregation, which is like punishment, but it's to protect him. It's for his own safety. For his own safety. Exactly. So he decided, and this is interesting because this is kind of like what Toby talked about

when we interviewed her. Yeah. Is that he decided, OK, all I've got now is time. I'm going to learn everything I can about my case. And I'm going to learn everything I can about how to get myself out of here. Wow. He's like, I have all this time. I'm going to use it.

Yeah, for the first time in my life, I have time. That's exactly what Toby said. Exactly. So he starts investigating his own case. There was a footprint that was left in a flower bed. And he's like going through all of this stuff to try and like prove that it's not his footprint. Right. And then he does all of that.

And then he finds out that like footprint evidence has basically been deemed junk science and like it's been totally discredited. And so like he spends all of this time on that. Yes. And it goes nowhere. of this time on that yes and it goes nowhere at one of his appeals the judge who presided over his case judge kraus denied his request for a new trial and the judge said that the prosecution presented a case so convincing and was such compelling force as to leave no doubt here that jeffrey scott hornoff was properly and deservedly convicted of first degree murder. So he was just totally crushed by that. Like he knows that he's innocent.

He's maintained his innocence this entire time. But admittedly, he knows it doesn't look good. It looks terrible. Looks so bad. And so he's, again, he spent all this time looking into his own case. After the trial judge turns down his appeal, it does move forward to like the Supreme Court and they turn down his appeal as well. And he's pretty much resigned himself that he's going to spend the rest of his life in prison. He has his wife come in. Like, obviously, she's been coming in for visits.

They've stayed married. She knows about the affair. And he tells her, like, you need to divorce divorce me you need to move on with your life like i i'm doing my best i am going to fight until i'm out of here but i don't know how long that's going to take you cannot wait for me yeah and so they do they get divorced she moves on and remarries and whatever yeah six and a half years go by oh and then on november 1st 2002 13 years after vicky cushman's murder this guy walks into like the the district attorney's office no and says i did it i murdered vicky cushman what and they're like yeah okay buddy sorry um we closed that case yeah we really hate to reopen the murder is already in jail nice try see you later don't make us do more paperwork

he's like i'm serious and he gives them all the information to connect all of the pieces that they couldn't connect before in this case so this guy's name is Todd Berry he had been the sixth person in Vicky's Rolodex Lord Almighty she had just ended their on again off again like hookup relationship right and he was really upset about it he had broken into her apartment that night the night that she was killed and confronted her and she wasn't upset like when he woke her up she was like what are you what are you doing here she'd calmly taken him to the living room and talked to him wow and then he was drunk he'd been like drinking all night whatever and then they're like having this calm conversation where she's like i'm sorry you know i'm ending things

because i really want to take the next step with this other guy yeah and not sure if she specifically named scott right but she just said she was interested in someone else like i'm picturing this like a movie she like looks over and she sees that he has broken into her apartment through a window and that he's left the window open. And she is pissed. Yes. Not for the reason that you think. Oh. Because she has a cat and she's afraid that he's let the cat out.

Yeah. and she's afraid that he's let the cat out yeah and so she goes and she climbs out the window and she's like standing on the roof of her apartment calling her cat's name and he like something sets him off and he's pissed because she's mad at him because she's mad yes and so Yes. And so he goes to the kitchen. He puts on her latex kitchen gloves. And when she comes in from the roof, he attacks her. He takes her, drags her to the living room. He takes that antique jewelry box. He hits her across the face with it. You are kidding.

That's why it was smashed open? That's why it was smashed. And that's what the marks on her face and neck were. Oh, my God. Yeah. why it was smashed that's why it was smashed and that's what the marks on her face and neck were oh my god yeah and then when she was incapacitated on the floor he grabbed that 17 pound fire extinguisher and smashed her head in with it this poor woman yeah my god yeah he tells them all of this and he's like i don't even know why i did it i don't know why it set me off so bad when she was entitled to her well yeah it's called toxic masculinity and he said that i had just been eating at him not the murder the murder is not what had been like gnawing at him and giving him this guilty feeling it was that somebody else somebody innocent was

sitting behind bars for what he had done not also that he had killed someone innocent i mean hopefully but doesn't sound like it doesn't yeah okay he said it was the fact that somebody else was sitting in prison paying for what he had done that he couldn't get over. He couldn't live his life like this anymore with that constant guilt. And so he had to come forward and tell the truth. So like a couple days later, this Todd guy is brought in and like officially arraigned on the murder charges. They take Scott to that hearing like he gets to watch. Oh. Yeah. That's kind of amazing. Yes. Scott's immediately released on bail when this happens too, because it takes a while to get all of his charges dismissed and everything overturned, but they do immediately, like

it's like two days later, he's released officially on bail. Wow. Yeah. While he awaits like the actual judicial process to clear him of everything. While he awaits like the actual judicial process to clear him of everything. And in the meantime, he gets to kind of sit and watch this guy, Todd Berry's like steps through like the court system. Yeah. And so he's there when Todd Berry is sentenced. Because I'm guessing Todd Berry came forward and confessed and otherwise this completely innocent guy would have sat in prison for the rest of his life.

They went super easy on him and gave him a deal. Oh, no. What kind of deal are we talking? So he pled guilty to second degree murder and he was sentenced to 30 years in prison. OK. With 15 of it suspended and he would be eligible for parole after 10 years what so he essentially got 10 years for murdering someone oh my god yeah and then letting someone else go to prison for it yeah for six and a half years sorry you don't get a nobel prize because you eventually

grow a conscience scott was in prison for six and a half years. Sorry, you don't get a Nobel Prize because you eventually grow a conscience. Scott was in prison for six and a half years, but this whole thing took up 14 years of his life. Absolutely. And from the minute that he was first interrogated, little whispers here and there spread around town. Of course. And by the time that he was actually charged, it was just like a known fact. Oh, yeah. Scott had the murder. Yes. He's the cop who murdered that lady. Yes. Yes. This whole situation had ruled his life for more time than Todd Berry was given in his sentence.

That is so upsetting. Super upsetting. So Scott sat in that hearing. He watched him be sentenced. And then Todd Berry's parents came up to him afterwards and they apologized to him and gave him like this big hug. He hugged both of them and he asked them to please tell Todd that he forgave him. Wow. Yeah.

I don't know that I'd be that big, but. No. Yeah. So eventually all of Scott's stuff is overturned. He's released everything. so eventually all of scott's stuff is overturned he's released everything but when he was convicted he was stripped of all of his like pension and benefits and everything from the police department and so he had to sue the city to get it back to get it back oh my god yeah and it took a really long time you know that shit just drags on forever So he's penniless, essentially getting out of prison. A bunch of people did like fundraisers and stuff

for him. And so he was making it along okay while he was waiting for this settlement to come through. Because Rhode Island is one of the states that does not have compensation for wrongful convictions. That is horrible. Yeah. So currently, to this day, Rhode Island does not have compensation for people who have been wrongfully convicted. That's especially horrible because even in states that do have it, it's almost never enough. Exactly. Yeah. And they have none.

So he ends up having to sue the city and he ends up getting like a $600,000 settlement, which is not enough. But there's no amount. there's no amount that's enough but of that so his ex-wife ends up getting a huge portion of it for back child support oh because he'd been in prison he'd been unable to pay child support yeah of course so he ends up getting i think of it and the rest of it goes to legal fees. He ends up walking away with like $60,000 after that. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh.

He says that's just fine. You know, he is free and he has remarried and he has another baby with his new wife. And no amount of money would be better than all of that. But he is currently working with legislators in Rhode Island to get some kind of restitution instated. I just read an article that was like dated February 19th. So a couple of days ago. Two seconds ago. Yeah.

That they've just presented a bill that would provide restitution for wrongfully convicted people so hopefully that works its way through and scott's kind of made that his his mission now not just for himself yeah for anyone for anyone affected by this because it really showed him like this could happen to anyone and what are the chances that someone actually comes forward and says, oh, you got the wrong guy. It was actually me. Yeah, it was actually me. It was actually me. That's got to be like less than 1%.

Yeah. Todd Berry is currently still incarcerated. For five more minutes. Yeah. So I don't, you know, the way his sentencing reads, it was 30 years, 15 of which is suspended. And then he'd be eligible for parole after 10 years. I am guessing based on so the Rhode Island Department of Corrections currently lists his estimated release date as June 8th, 2026. So I don't know if he's gotten in some trouble since he's been in prison or if they've.

But that timeline doesn't match up. Yeah. So which doesn't bother me any. Like I'd love for him to to stay in prison for longer so yeah yeah he earned it that's give him what he earned absolutely so that's it's a case of wrongful conviction unlike any that i had ever heard before that is wild yeah that poor guy i know i, just imagine being in that situation. And at first you're like, well, I didn't hurt anybody.

Like, there's no way. Yeah. And then you sit there and you hear the case they have against you. And you're like, I am fucked. Gotta give away my bracelet. Yeah. Yeah. In this crime library story, they talk about how there was like this time when Scott was in prison and he was watching it fall and like the snow fall.

And people were talking about, at least we're not having to shovel snow or something like that and he was like no I wish I was shoveling snow snuffling show he's like no I wish I was shoveling snow when I get out of here I'll shovel snow with a tablespoon I don't care and so the first blizzard that took place in Rhode Island after he was released from prison, he literally went out and he shoveled his front porch with a tablespoon. Are you serious? Yes. Yeah. Good grief. Yeah. I mean, I get the point. Yeah. Now he says he's also focused on bettering his relationship with his three sons. So he ended up having three sons with his first wife, and then he has a daughter with a second wife.

So he has been he was absent for a large part of his son's lives and so he's trying to you know work on rebuilding that relationship and move forward with his life oh best of luck to him yeah no kidding god damn i think this should fire everyone up about our justice system and how great it is no it's perfect i think it's so easy to sit there and listen to a wrongful condition and be like well you know that would never happen to me but like it could literally happen to anyone yeah it could literally happen to anyone the part that couldn't happen to anyone just anyone is getting out afterwards exactly once they've got you they've got you got you yeah the fact that that guy just came forward and was like.

Oh, my God. Yeah, he could have never done that. Sure. And who knows how many people just like Scott are in prison like that. That is terrifying to me. I hate it. Are you ready for. Chocolate.

Chocolate. And murder. Yes, please. All right. Here we go. Hold on. I'm going to lube up my lips here. Yes, please. All right, here we go. Hold on, I'm going to lube up my lips here. Oh, God, why must you say that? Putting on a little Blistex. It's not going to do the trick.

I'm not using your anal lube, Kristen. It's called Carmex. And now they're not a sponsor. Thanks a lot. No, Blistex is too minty. They don't focus on the moisture. They focus on the mint. I love the mint.

Well, but why are you putting it on, though, for moisture? It's like a cool breeze right on my lips. It's like my lips are skiing, and the rest of me is sitting right here. That's the desired effect, right? Yeah. Okay. First of all, I love this case.

Fascinated by it. Multiple shout outs. First one goes out to Heather Monroe, who wrote an article on medium.com. And I'm not going to say the title because I think it gives stuff away. Same thing for an article from the San Francisco Chronicle by Katie Dowd. And also, do you ever go on Historical Crime Detective? No, I've never heard of it. It's like a blog. And the guy who runs that site posted a very helpful article, Chef's Kiss. It was written by Thomas Duke in 1910. So, you know, not that Thomas Duke's sitting around listening to this

podcast, but thank you, buddy. Yeah. Okay. Also, old timey disclaimer. Excellent. All right. All caps, old timey disclaimer. Got it. Check.

Cordelia Brown was born in 1854 in Kansas City, Missouri. This is local? Well, kind of. Did she move away? Yeah. Okay. Missouri. This is local?

Well, kind of. Did she move away? Yeah. Oh, okay. But it was, as we all know, we are in Kansas City, Missouri right now. I live in Kansas City, Missouri, so I was super pumped. Super excited, yes. And this is really, I mean, this is like it. Okay.

Okay. Anyway. Woo-hoo! The connection ends there. Basically. I don't know how long she stayed in Missouri. One source said that she met her husband in Kansas City. Okay.

And they moved on to California. But at any rate, they eventually moved to California. Her husband was named Welcome Botkin. Welcome Botkin? That's his name. I'm sorry. Welcome. Welcome?

Botkin. That's not a. I'm sorry. Welcome. Welcome? Botkin. That's not a name. Hold on. I mean, I know your name's not set in stone for that baby. Have you thought of welcome? No. How do you spell Botkin? B-O-T-K-I-N.

What are you trying to look up? I'm just Googling him and see if this is a real person. Wait, do you think I made up a person? Story checks out. His middle name's aplin yeah welcome a botkin so they lived in stockton california which looks lovely it's like a little south of sacramento a little east of san francisco wonderful he worked as a grain broker he also i believe was involved in like the missouri valley bank anyway money out the yin

yang yeah he's making it rain constantly constantly yeah what's the old timey term for making it rain i don't know throwing pennies i mean so you know these two had tons of money but you know what they didn't have a ton of what love oh they became estranged but it kind of worked for them like they were married to each other but they each kind of did their own thing one day in 1895 cordelia was chilling in golden gate park in san francisco when a dashing young man named john preston dunning was riding his bicycle but the bike like broke down or something. Broke down? Yeah.

I don't know. It broke or something. Wait, what year is it? It's old timey times. It's 1895. Yeah. So he's, okay. He's riding one of those bikes with the giant front wheel and the little tiny back wheel.

For sure. And I feel like those things were like made to malfunction. That's right. So he hopped off, began to fix it. And as he worked on it, he looked over and saw Cordelia chilling on that park bench. And he was like, hey, girl, nice petticoat or whatever. Nice petticoat. That'd be like saying nice undies. Oh, OK.

Well, I'm sure he wasn't that bold. Maybe nice hat or something. Before too long, these two were balls deep in an affair. Balls deep, Kristen. I can't help myself. Minor age gap alert. Oh, she was 41. He was 32. The affair made perfect sense. This was the way John rolled. He was married, This was the way John rolled. He was married, but this dude had affairs all the time. He also drank all the time. He also gambled all the time.

But at the same time, he kind of had a lot going on for himself. He was a big-time reporter. He'd been sent out to do international reporting in Chile and Samoa. reporting in Chile and Samoa. So at this point, he had worked his way up to become the superintendent of the Associated Press's Western Bureau in San Francisco. Wow, that's like big deal stuff. Yeah, no, he was a legit big deal. Just cruising around on a big wheeled bike. On a big wheel. I was picturing one of those little tykes. So Cordelia and John, they're hooking up. And Cordelia's husband, maybe he knows, maybe he doesn't. Either way, he doesn't care. But John's wife, Mary Elizabeth, does care.

Does care. So here's the deal. Mary was a very classy lady. She came from a prominent family in Delaware. Her dad was a former congressman. And by this point in her life life john had cheated on her a ton he was always drunk and this was like the last straw yeah so she took her baby daughter and hightailed it back to dover delaware meanwhile cordelia and john keep on you know keeping on

what do you mean brandy must i spell it out for you? They were banging on the rag, okay? Oh, good. But things quickly went downhill for John. Uh-oh. He loses his job. Well, lose. I wouldn't say lose. Okay.

See, he made a little oopsie. Oh, no. You know how you accidentally embezzle like four grand from the Associated Press? We've all been there. We've all been there. And let me adjust that for inflation, except I actually can't adjust it for inflation. Because it doesn't go back that far. Yeah, the inflation calculator doesn't go back that far.

But it's bare minimum $105,000. Yeah. So he really did it big with this embezzlement. So they were like, yeah, you're done here. Goodbye. He didn't like go to jail no what wow i don't know if he was if maybe she stepped high what i wonder if she actually stepped in and smoothed it over because she had quite a bit of money yeah so she think you think she gave them $4,000? I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know if maybe it was embarrassing for them. All right. And they didn't want it to be written about in all the papers. All the papers. Where's the candy coming? Can you wait? I'm on page two here, ma'am. Keep it together.

And you know there won't be actual candy. What? Did you think i like brought candy for you to like sample as i told you about this i know we're gonna eat candy so he embezzled a bunch of money but he still had like i believe like some jobs maybe it's like a stringer or like doing something but a paper in san San Francisco fired him because he was drunk all the time. A newspaper in Salt Lake City fired him. Again, drunk all the time.

At this point, Cordelia lived in the Victoria Hotel, which I don't think is still around. And John moved in with her. Their affair lasted about three years, which I'm realizing the first date I gave you had to have been a little wrong, but you know, old timey disclaimer. So over the course- I don't even realizing the first date i gave you had to have been a little wrong but you know old-timey disclaimer yeah so over the i don't even remember the first date you gave me great over the course of those years john stayed married to his estranged wife

and cordelia stayed married to her estranged husband to welcome that's right what do you think his friends called him oh i don't know you couldn't call someone welcome no right what do you think his friends called him oh i don't know you couldn't call someone welcome no i i don't know they had to have called him welcome because surely he would have gone by something else in all these articles all right anyway maybe they called him applin applin that's his middle name that's terrible too it's a name. His parents really set him up for failure. What if he had a bunch of other siblings who all had normal names? Maybe. So the whole time Cordelia would write anonymous letters to John's wife, Mary. Ooh.

And she'd say things like, oh, your husband's cheating on you. And he's cheating on you with a total hottie so hot and she's pretty cool and sophisticated and i'm pretty sure she's british and uh you two will never reconcile because the other woman is so cool and maybe Signed, definitely not Cordelia. Although definitely not British. She had a... Okay, so apparently like... I didn't write this part down. Everybody drink.

Yeah. Apparently like the first time she and John met, she like said she was British. She had a weird thing about lying about being British. Weird. I hate it. Super weird. I hate it.

And she was from Missouri. So like calm down, Cordelia. Meanwhile, over the course of their affair, weird i hate it super weird i hate it and she was from missouri so i calmed down cordelia meanwhile over the course of their affair john told cordelia like a few things about his wife you know stuff's bound to slip so he was like oh that woman loves candy she's like a child she just loves candy can't say no to candy okay oh yeah yeah she's got some friends here in san francisco i would say her best friend in san francisco is mrs corbally uh-huh who's this corbally you know just like i told you mary's best friend from san francisco and also mary enjoys candy and you know that's those are some facts about mary oh you want to store them away in your noggin for a while. Yeah. Great.

At any rate. So there was John unemployed, kind of sucking at life. Things were going not great when all of a sudden the Spanish-American War broke out

and the Associated Press was like, oh, shit, we've got a report on this thing. But who do we know who's a really good reporter

and is awesome? How about that guy that embezzled all that money from us yeah exactly yeah who's desperate enough to just pick up and go cover this war well that would be john preston dunning so they called him off the bench to be their lead reporter for the spanish-american war so tell us about the spanishAmerican War, Kristen. Well, it involved America and the Spanish. And John Preston Dunning covered it. For all this and more, I don't know. So on March 8th, 1898, Cordelia went with John to the train station in Oakland.

She was so upset. Oh, you know, they're going to have to part ways and she's going to miss him so much. Oh, sad times. Just before he skedaddled out of town, he was like, yeah, you know, I'm going to miss you too so much. Just a ton. But here's the thing. When my assignment wraps up and I come home, it's not going to be to you. Ooh.

I'm never coming back to San Francisco. OK. When I get done with my assignment, I'm going back to Delaware. I'm going to be with my wife and child. Oh, my gosh. OK. Cordelia took the breakup just great. I bet she to be with my wife and child. Oh my gosh. Okay. Cordelia took the breakup just great. I bet she didn't. Months passed. And then, you know, totally unrelated. Here we go.

Story out of left field. On August 9th, 1898, Mary Dunning, John's wife, got a package in the mail of poison chocolate. It came to her at her mom and dad's house. Candy, and she can't say no to candy, and it's all poisoned. Where she was living with her daughter and her sister and brother-in-law and their kids. You know, they're in this big place. By this point, her dad had been in the House of Representatives. He'd been Delaware's attorney general. And now he was doing his own thing, running his private practice.

He was a big deal. So Mary gets this package in the mail and the family eats dinner okay one article said supper is that lunch or dinner it depends on the part of the country i know i think it's different yeah i think so too yeah i think of supper as dinner yeah but a lot of places it's lunch okay they had supper whatever the hell that whatever that meal means to you yes yes afterward they went out onto the veranda to relax she opened the package oh man oh man it was so nice it was this white box wrapped in a pink satin ribbon and across the top of the box in gold print it said bonbons excellent she opened it up and there were chocolate creams and bonbons and those i don't like these

but you know the chocolate drops that are covered in sprinkles snow caps yeah yeah but old timey snow caps old timey snow caps yeah no i've never been a fan and there was this really nice note in there it said with love to yourself and baby mrs c and there was this cute little handkerchief it said city of paris on. I mean, how great. Mary's good friend from San Francisco had sent her a nice note and a handkerchief and some candy. Oh, but it was too much for her to eat on her own. So she ate a few. And she shared chocolates.

And she shared a few with her sister, Ida. So her sister, Ida, ate the poison chocolates. And Ida gave some to her children. Oh, so the children ate the poison chocolates. And Ida gave some to her children. Oh, so the children ate the poison chocolates. And oh, look, two ladies are walking by. What? Two strangers are getting poison chocolate? No, it's old timey times.

Everyone knew everyone. So it's like two ladies are walking by. They're friends. So, oh, hey, Ethel. Here's some poison chocolate. No, they don't say here's some poison chocolate. So, you know know sharing is caring they give the two ladies some chocolate within a few hours all hell broke loose everyone who ate that candy got super sick

to paraphrase you there was vomit everywhere i was thinking they were gonna be peeing out their butts but no. I mean, probably, but you know, these articles are a little too classy for that. So the children survived, and so did the two women who'd happened to pass by. I think those were the people who just had one. Yeah. But, I mean, who just has one chocolate? Well, I mean, if they gave me one of them snow cap things, I'd be like, mm, cool, thanks.

Oh, come on. A big tray of beautiful chocolates. You're going to have just one. I don't know. Maybe. Excuse me, sir. Are you shaking your head for over there? Not you.

I was thinking about me. I'm just saying I would have more than one. After a day of agony, Mary died and her sister Ida died the next day. Because they ate poison chocolates. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That's really scary. I mean, but they thought it came from a friend.

Yeah. I don't think there's any real like. Yeah. Some of these articles I hate. They're like, well, she was so naive and so trusting. It's sad. Yeah. If what kind of life are you living when a box of chocolates comes to your door that you think is from a friend and you go, this is probably poison.

I shouldn't. No, no. Give me a break. That doesn't mean she's naive. It means she liked chocolates. That's exactly right. Lock me up. So the women's father, John Pennington, was grief stricken and he wanted answers obviously someone

had done something to those chocolates yeah so he did some digging and he looked at that note and the one that had come with the chocolates looked a hell of a lot like the notes that had come from the anonymous person the handwriting was the same. And he was like. The plot thickens. So he called the police and things got a rolling. They did an autopsy, which revealed that the women had died from arsenic poisoning. But the police are like, OK, OK, we're here. We need to talk to the hubs.

John got word about his wife's death. So he immediately came back from Puerto Rico? Cuba? Question mark? Different sources say different things. The bottom line is he came back. He heard what had happened. He saw the note and he was like, oh, shit.

That's Cordelia. That's Cordelia's handwriting. He got this sickening feeling because he remembered telling her about how much Mary loved candy. He remembered telling her about Mary's friend from San Francisco, Mrs. Corbally. So he told them, it's my mistress. She's the one who murdered my wife and sister-in-law. So they started building a case, but it would be tough. The candy box had no label.

The package had no return address. It would be tough. The candy box had no label. The package had no return address. Someone had killed people using the U.S. Postal Service, which had never been done before. Wow. But it turns out it was kind of super easy to solve. You ready for this?

Yeah. Buckle up. We're going for a wild ride. Okay. You didn't even buckle. I'm sorry. Yeah, you were. Yeah, all right. right okay you ready here we go handwriting expert was like yep the note matches the anonymous notes which also match the

love letters from cordelia to john boom roasted investigators went to a bunch of candy stores trying to figure out where the candy had been purchased and two ladies at the george haas candy store which is like the most beautiful candy store on earth, were like, oh, yeah, yeah, we can help you. Uh-huh. Yeah, this weird lady came in wanting a box of candy, insisting that it be super fancy, but was also weirdly pushy about us not putting any kind of identifying label on it that could be traced back to this store. Boom, roasted. Then they found this pharmacist at the owl drug store who was like oh yeah yeah yeah i can help you arsenic i remember that lady she came in here saying she wanted to

bleach a straw hat and that she needed arsenic to do the job and i was like lady you don't need arsenic to bleach a straw hat that seems unnecessary but she bought it anyway okay boom roasted then there was the issue of the handkerchief where had it come from well it still had the tag on so that was kind of easy and they went to that store and the lady behind the counter was like uh yeah yeah i actually do remember who bought that handkerchief. And they're like, you're kidding. How? Yeah. So she goes, I remember her because that woman looked exactly like my dead mom.

Oh, gosh. And they were like, really? And she's like, yeah, really. So she pulls out a picture and sure enough, looked exactly like Cordelia. Oh, my gosh. Say it with me. Boom, roasted. Then this post office worker named John Dunnigan came forward.

And he was like, yep. The package came through the ferry post office where I work. I remember it because my name is John Dunnigan. And I thought to myself, huh, this is going to a Mrs. John Dunning. Kind of similar to my name. Boom roasted. Then we're not done. What?

This other woman comes forward, and she's like, hey, this might be helpful. In late July, Cordelia said some really weird shit to me. She wanted to know what different poisons could do to the human body, and she asked me whether you have to sign your name on a registered package when you send it through the mail. Boom. Roasted. Obviously, this is all circumstantial, but I mean, what more can you get?

So, you know, they were feeling pretty good about the case. But whose case was it really? The murders kind of took place in Delaware. But in a way, the crime kind of took place in Delaware. But in a way, the crime kind of took place in California. So who had jurisdiction? Again, this like nothing had happened like this before. Well, wouldn't it be a federal crime? Oh, you know what?

That's a really good point. I don't know why they didn't think of that. But even then you have to decide where it's going to be. It's 19-0-nothing. It's not even 19 oh nothing yet it's still 18 oh something not 18 oh but i will say the san francisco chronicle said that this was the second time that someone had been murdered through the u.s postal service but i couldn't find any more on that and i'm like you can't say it's the second and not tell me what

the first one was these are the rules has declared it as the first. Yep. Sorry, folks. So Delaware wanted the case, obviously. Yeah. But by this point, Cordelia had an attorney named George Knight. And he was like, nope, nobody, nope, nope. You don't have enough evidence. And this should really be going down in California. Also, Delaware sounds cold. So a group of judges got in a huddle.

And October 23rd, they came out and said hey this trial is happening in california i read just like the tiniest bit on why they decided that it was basically she does have rights and you know whatever happened supposedly happened in california so we're gonna have it here so the delaware people were pissed, and they appealed, and it went all the way to the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court was like, yep, California is the place you ought to be. So they loaded up the truck. I'm sorry. Moved to Beverly.

Thank you. Hills, that is. I think it's the second time we've done that. I think it is. Both time we've done that. I think it is. Both times caused by me. Yes. I don't mean to take credit for some of our best moments here. So on December 9th, 1898, Cordelia Botkin's murder trial began.

People were pumped. Newspapers sold out. It was called the trial of the century which like every trial is the prosecution relied on the testimony of a bunch of the people i mentioned in the boom roasted section so we're not going to rehash that but you get the idea one source said that at trial the prosecution you know they already had a pretty good case but they got relatively new information that basically acted as a bombshell so on top of all this other circumstantial evidence they discovered that in her hotel room in the hotel victoria a porter and a clerk for the hotel had found like the wrapping and the seal that had gone around the chocolate box originally so obviously she had

been in the george haas candy store obviously she had opened something yeah and it wasn't sealed yeah you know but a bing but a boom yeah roasted as they say thank you then on december 19th it was time for john dunning to testify and things got a little uncomfortable oh because he was asked to testify about his affairs. Ooh. Which I think is a fair question for the defense because their defense,

I would imagine, would be something like, well, maybe there's a lot of women out there with a motive to kill Mary. Yeah. So they're asking him about, you know,

who are these other women you've had affairs with? And he's like, well, you know, they exist. And they're like, names, please. And John said, no, he wouldn't tell them. And the judge was like, couldn't compel him. He was like, I am not telling you that. And the judge was like, dude, here's the deal. If you don't answer this question, I will hold you in contempt and you'll go to jail.

you don't answer this question, I will hold you in contempt and you'll go to jail. So John Dunning went to jail. Yes. Oh my gosh. So he stayed there for several days until eventually, I guess the defense decided they didn't care enough. Oh my gosh. I don't see why they wouldn't. Anyway, not my decision. Then Cordelia took the stand in her own defense. Wow. That was a bold strategy, Cotton. Well, okay, here's what I read. I don't know what that reference was, but I'm with you 100%. Basically, the prosecution's case was so good that they were like, well, you gotta do something. Yeah. So they threw her up there.

Ugh. And she put on quite a show so she seemed to try to pass herself off as british oh no we all your nightmare kristin i hate a fake british accent hate hate hate so a newspaper from that time reported that she was trying to come across as a little English woman, but noted that Mrs. Botkin was never nearer England than the boundary line of Missouri. Which seems rude. And true. And true.

So her time on the witness stand was illuminating, and I think it's going to change a lot of minds. Are you ready? I don't think it is. Are you ready? No. All right. And I think it's going to change a lot of minds. Are you ready? I don't think it is. Are you ready? No. All right. Now I'm ready.

Okay. Okay. Here's the deal, Brandi. Here's the true story. There were a lot of liars involved in this trial. She never bought that handkerchief. And she didn't buy those chocolates. She'd never been in that store.

My God. those chocolates she'd never been in that store my god and this stuff about her asking people a bunch of questions about poison and how they affect the body well she was just concerned what she yeah she was concerned about her own health because she'd recently been prescribed some pretty strong stuff and so she just wanted to ask a few questions of a few people i'm sorry is that a crime okay so sue me she'd been oh wait she'd been prescribed poison so her testimony was that she'd been prescribed heavy stuff and i'm like arsenic i mean i know it's old timey times but surely they didn't do that the guy didn't want you to put it on your straw hat surely he doesn't want you to ingest it and yeah she purchased that arsenic back in june but she had to bleach that straw hat

haven't you ever had a straw hat you needed to bleach every two weeks at least arsenic's all over i got arsenic coming out the yin yang and plus she'd bought powdered arsenic and you know as the prosecution had already said the arsenic in the chocolates wasn't powdered so innocent no yeah on her side yet no the jury deliberated for four hours and you won't believe it but they found her guilty on two counts of first degree murder. What? I know, I know. They had nothing on her.

Yeah. She was sentenced to life in prison. So, you know, that was that. She was held in Branch County Jail, which was frankly pretty sweet. It was a lot nicer than prison. So when they took her off to jail she'd been like okay cool i'm coming just let me pack my trunk she packed a trunk full of like all the stuff she wanted and it was so heavy that two police officers carried it to the jail which how is that

allowed how okay i'm sorry like this is old timey times that's what happened with fucking cassie i know it is. She had her furniture and rugs and shit in there. Yeah. I don't know. Ridiculous. Yes. It's weird.

But a couple weeks later, Cordelia's husband, Welcome, was like, you're no longer welcome in this marriage. And he divorced her. Very good. You might be thinking to yourself, gee, we're probably done here. We are not. Okay. A funny thing happened in the California Supreme Court.

Wow, good job. Thank you. A man named Albert Hoth had been accused of murdering a woman. So he had his trial. And just before the jury went into deliberation, the judge told the jury exactly this. Circumstantial evidence has the advantage over direct evidence because it is not likely to be fabricated. What? Yup.

That's some really fucking weird jury instructions. Right. Very instructions. Right. Very strange. Yeah. Albert's attorneys appealed based on that crazy remark. The California Supreme Court heard them out and was like, wow, yeah, that judge screwed up big time. He basically gave the jury his opinion on the case in a way. He told the jury how heavily they should weigh certain testimony. And you can't

do that. Yeah. So they granted Albert a new trial. Guess what? Turns out judges at that time would do that sort of thing a lot. They'd kind of sneakily direct the jury one way or the other right before they went into deliberations. And so this new ruling gave Cordelia an opportunity. An opportunity for a retrial. Ooh. The second trial took place in 1904, and they found her guilty again. She was sentenced to life in prison. Again. So, you know, what more do we want?

Yeah. She for sure did it. She's locked away. All right, goodbye. Around this time, the judge who had presided over, I think, both of her trials, Judge Carol Cook, his wife died. So every Sunday he would take a trip out to the cemetery to visit her grave. And on one Sunday, as he was heading out, he saw fucking Cordelia. What?

Just out? Wandering around? She's supposed to be in jail. Uh, yeah. That's what he said. He was furious. I think they might have been in different cars or something so it wasn't like he could just run up to her on the street but he knew they were in

different cars in 1901 i know they okay so 1904 whatever 190 whatever it is this source said they were different buggies cars but it can't be cars i know it can't be cars they were in cars do you think they had some kind of public transportation system? And so like a cart, maybe? Yeah, probably public transportation with no security measures. They should have security cameras. Anyway, he was furious. By that point, everyone kind of knew that Cordelia was having a pretty nice time in jail.

Is it San Francisco? Yeah. Maybe they were in streetcars. Yeah, that's possible. Yeah. So she was being treated better than the other prisoners. Everyone knew that. Yeah.

They knew she had more freedom than others, but they didn't know she had like literal freedom. So Judge Cook was like, something's fishy. He also found out that there were rumors that Cordelia was in love with or maybe trading sexual favors with or maybe being exploited by one of the guards in exchange for being let out of jail whenever she wanted. Oh, my gosh. So the judge was like, all right, all right. Who did this? This is unacceptable.

But no one would admit that they were involved but no one would admit that they were involved and no one would admit that they knew who was involved but cordelia was just super concerned because her freedom was gonna get taken away no brandy she'd never been out i mean obviously that wasn't her and oh my gosh hey judge you saw a woman outside of jail who looks just like me? Do you know what that means? That person's probably the murderer. Yeah! She's a doppelganger.

I'm an evil twin. She's the one who bought the poison. She's the one who bought the chocolate. She's the one who bought the handkerchiefs. No. Oh. No. Case closed. Am I right? Goodbye. No. Cordelia is full of shit. one who bought the chocolate she's the one who bought the handkerchiefs no no case closed am i

right goodbye no cordelia is full of shit i guess i'd better be on my way and he was like yeah nice try nice try two years later an earthquake struck the area and it destroyed the jail so cordelia was transferred to san quentin, which was not as nice as the jail. She tried to appeal her sentence again, but her appeal was denied. John Dunning died from alcoholism in 1907, and three years later, Cordelia died in prison. They listed her cause of death as softening of the brain due to melancholy. The fuck is that okay here's the ridiculous explanation so a bunch of people in her life died yeah right around this

time and so i guess that means she was so sad that her brain got really soft she got mushy brain and died that's that's not a real thing maybe she needed some arsenic to take care of that tighten that back up and that's the story of the chocolate candy that was amazing i loved it so much oh let me see who shoot i didn't say the name of the person who recommended the case and she wanted you to cover it so sorry gala Gayla M. on the Discord. Thank you. It was such a fun case. This was, I feel like, more of a treat because it was such a brandy case and I just got to hear it. So I didn't have to do the research.

It was so fun to look into. I loved that. And what a sad story for that family. They lose two adult daughters. Yeah. God. And she sounds like a real ass hat a lot of the papers went on about how like she would pose a lot and part of me is like okay do we all just hate her so now we're adding stuff but they did find some pictures she had posed for and she posed

with like her hands behind her head which was was like super scandalous in Victorian times. Very sexy. And she wasn't very good looking, so people made fun of that. Oh. I can't stop this pose. Stop doing it. Quit it. Are you too turned on?

I'm getting way too turned on. Thoughts, so thoughts. My boner's getting hard too fast. Okay, you have to explain that reference. You can't just say that. No, I refuse. If you sign up for the Discord, which that was not,

or for the Patreon, that was not meant to be a plug. It's a Supreme Court level. That's a reference to our reaction video that we did as our bonus video. Okay, since Norman is not here, I... Oh, shit. Oh, no.

What are you doing? Oh, my God. This is so embarrassing.ian okay oh god you added everyone in the gaming history oh no oh no oh this is so embarrassing you don't have questions but you have to tell everybody what you did oh my god okay so norm's not here so in between our two cases oh my god my face is so red right now oh my god and he has like thousands okay so you guys i was like oh real quick beep boop beep boop not paying attention i can message everyone in our discord and say hey it's an after dark episode if you've got questions for us let us know okay then i set my phone down okay now it's like 45

minutes later turns out i messaged the gaming story historians discord oh my god he literally just added me as an admin oh no that's been revoked oh my god this is humiliating oh no oh christian you're right they're gonna be stripped for sure it looks like someone deleted what i did oh god it's probably norm oh god well thank god for that oh oh where did i write it though okay man oh god i'm so humiliated oh god oh god people are trying to help me out okay so okay well we only have two questions someone tried to help us out and was like oh kristen you know tried to post this in the wrong discord and so he moved it okay okay this is just humiliating we're ending this right now no questions this episode because krista can't handle it oh oh no this is this is really just

an ad for our patreon oh no herp herp help me yes i grew up with computers Herb. Herb. Help me. Yes, I grew up with computers. Kristen is quite computer savvy, guys. You know, this is a thing I do. I multitask. Not well. Not well, obviously. Not well. Have I learned?

Never. No. Never. You know, I almost did it. I don't have access to the gaming story. So I should have been the one to ask. And you know what? I almost asked you to. But to the gaming story it was so i should have been the one to ask you know what i almost asked you to but then i was like why would i ask her when i can just do it we're gonna do it i literally picked up my phone and then you were like everyone i was

like oh okay she's got it i did got it weirdly the gaming historian fans uh have no questions for us which is super weird how about like have you ever used discord before who are you who are you and why are you adding me well you know what i think now is as good a time as any to do our supreme court inductions okay brandy how do they get into this fine Supreme Court? Well, all they have to do is go to patreon.com slash LGTC podcast and join up at the $7 Supreme Court level. I left you hanging because you left me hanging a few times. Like three times in this episode. I am sorry.

I missed the cues. Burns, doesn't it? Boom roasted. I love that episode of the office once you sign up at the seven dollar level you get all kinds of honors and benefits including name them you get inducted to the supreme court on this podcast you get a card you get a sticker you get bonus videos you, you get bonus episodes, you get case updates. It's pretty awesome. So this week we are doing names and favorite movies.

Here we go. Erin Kelly. Love Actually. Mary Craig. The Goonies. Joy Joy. Clueless. Grace Scott.

Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark. Aaron Marr. Empire Records. Were you double checking me? No, I was just reading. Amanda Trudeau. Mulholland Drive. Amelia Rose.

The Road to El Dorado. Yes, the kids cartoon film. No regrets. I feel no shame. David is really feeling you. Yeah, he's nodding a lot. I'm singing the songs from that movie. I've never seen it. No shame. Jessica Harris. Rear window. Oh, this is how I die. Rear window is how I die.

Yeah, no, absolutely. 100%. 100%. Carrie Overholt pretty and pink welcome to the supreme court oh god i'm still so embarrassed we gotta wrap this up so i can go hide why are they gonna have to grovel to norm about that too oh my god he has i think he's got like 3 000 people kristen you added 3 000 people uh and they were all like who the hell is this uh uh maybe we get a bunch of subscribers oh Oh, yeah. I'm sure that's what'll happen. Oh, all these new fans. What?

Oh. I found your podcast when you messaged me on a Sunday night. It's the recipe to my success, folks. Oh, no. Okay, thank the people so we can end this. I'm dying. I'm dying. Thank you guys for all of your support.

We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit,

Patreon. Once you've done that, please subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to and then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review.

And then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. Maybe we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. Maybe we'll be experts on the discord by next week. Oh, wow. All right.

I could see the hesitation in your eyes. I was like, she's got something rude up her sleeve. And now, Brandy, for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from newspapers.com, an article by Heather Monroe on medium.com, an article by Katie Dowd for the San Francisco Chronicle, and an article by Thomas Duke on

the blog Historical Crime Detective. And I got my info from an article for the Crime Library by Seamus McGraw, an article by Hans Schur for JusticeDenied.org, the Court Record, and the Associated Press. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. Podcast fucking adjourned.