Let's Go To Court! - 119: Kate Middleton's Topless Photos & William Wallace

Episode Date: April 29, 2020

William Wallace was on a wild goose chase. He’d been told to go to 25 Menlove Gardens East, in Liverpool, for a business meeting. But no matter how hard he tried, or how many people he asked for directions, he couldn’t find the address. Dejected, he headed back home. But when he got home, he couldn’t get in. He complained to his neighbors, then went to the back of his house to try his key again. This time, the door opened. He went inside to discover his wife, Julia had been beaten to death. Suspicions quickly turned to William. He seemed to be the only person with a motive, but he also had a strong alibi. Then Kristin tells us about the summer of 2012, when the Duchess of Cambridge Kate Middleton and her husband Prince William went on vacation to Provence, France. They stayed at a friend’s house on a 640-acre estate. At one point, the couple went out on their balcony in their swimsuits. Kate took off her top, to get a little sun. The couple had every reason to think they were alone. Little did they know that half a mile away, members of the paparazzi were hiding out, snapping pictures of the couple via long range lenses. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The Watershed Significance of Kate Middleton’s Topless Photo Lawsuit,” by Elise Taylor for Vogue.com “Duchess of Cambridge topless photo case: Closer ordered by French court to pay 91,700 in damages,” by Maya Oppenheim for The Independent “Kate Middleton Topless Photos: Duke and Duchess Reveal Anger at ‘Grotesque’ Invasion,” Huffington Post UK “Kate Middleton Topless Photos Lawsuit Against French Magazine Ends in Payout For Royal Couple,” by Julia Glum for Newsweek “Death of Diana, Princess of Wales,” Wikipedia “The Princess and the Paparazzi: How Diana’s Death Changed the British Media,” by Kate Samuelson for Time Magazine “Diana Sues Over Gym Photos,” BBC “Court awards Duchess of Cambridge Damages Over Topless Photos,” by Kim Willsher for The Guardian In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Killing of Julia Wallace: An Impossible Murder” TheUnredacted.com “The "Impossible" 1930s Murder That Still Fascinates Crime Writers” by Deanna Cioppa, Mental Floss “The 'impossible' murder that rocked Liverpool and remains unsolved 80 years on” by Emilia Bona, The Liverpool Echo “William Herbert Wallace” wikipedia.org

Get ready to experience an all-new Don Valley North Lexus. Don Valley North Lexus has temporarily relocated around the corner to 7200 Victoria Park Avenue while they build a brand new dealership for you. The deals don't stop though. Get loyalty rates as low as 1.9%, delivery credits up to $1,500, and save up to $7,000 on select demonstrator models. Don Valley North, Don Valley North Lexus. And save up to $7,000 on select demonstrator models.

A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about Kate Middleton's topless photos.

And I'll be talking about William Wallace. Mine has the word topless in it, so clearly mine is better than yours. I hate to say it, but it's true. And mine's not that William Wallace. It's a different William Wallace. Oh. Not the Braveheart guy. I'm sorry to disappoint you.

You know, I know so little about movies that I didn't even know that's where we were going with that. Wonderful! Well, you said it in kind of a Wilford Brimley kind of voice, so I didn't really know what was up. That was my attempt at a Scottish accent, Kristen. Oh, God! Try again. Let me hear it again. Come on. No! This is amazing! I refuse.

I will not be fodder for your comedy. Okay. Okay. Just wait until you make entry into my home again. You stop it. Oh, I miss you. I miss you too oh oh i got a i got a hot update on the uh on the supreme court cards

do you want okay do you want me to deliver it i mean yeah i think you're the only one who can so so i got out this weekend and went to office Office Max because I figured it was not busy enough or wouldn't be too busy for me to be unsafe going there. And so I got stamps. So I sent out everything. We've got more cards on order. So those will be coming in soon and we'll get the next batch sent out. And then Casey, my sister, messaged me today and she's like, you can order stamps on the

United States Postal Service's website and they'll just mail them to you. I was like, uh. So stamp situation taken care of. So first of all, first of all, ma'am, what the hell are you talking about? Oh, so we have this little thing called a Patreon. Perhaps you've heard of it. And if you join at the $7 level, that's the Supreme Court. And you get you get all kinds of fun benefits, including but not limited to a card with our autographs in it. And inside that card comes an

amazing sticker with our logo on it. And so... An amazing sticker? Yeah, it's a really cute sticker. Well, I mean, it's not going to like cure the coronavirus. I don't know if we can call it amazing. I think it's amazing. You know, you do, Kristen. In addition to that, you also get bonus episodes, bonus videos. You get into our Discord where you can chat with everybody.

The bonus video this month, I gotta say, me giving the haircut to Norman, it's quite something. It's gold. It's comedy gold, Kristen. No, it's a golden haircut. You did beautiful. Okay, I have to say like you did a pretty good job. You took instruction really well. Okay, well now you're being a little too nice. I mean, it does look pretty bad. Minus the part where I told you to make a guide down the middle and you made a guide down the one side of his head.

Brandy, you know what? Sometimes the artist makes their own decisions, okay? You hear the rules. Maybe you even respect them, but then you have to break them. Okay. You're calling yourself an artist now, huh? Yeah, an artiste is what I prefer. Excellent.

Shall we get going with this? Well, I kind of want to chit-chat with you more. What else you got? You got any updates? Well, no, I don't have. Nothing new has happened to me. Nothing cool has happened to me because I'm at home. Just at home.

I did go to Costco the other day with Norm and literally the only aisle that had multiple people in it was the liquor aisle. Oh, so you guys are fancy there in Missouri. See, in Kansas, we got our buttholes so tight that they can't sell alcohol at Costco. And that's why there's no alcohol consumption in the state of Kansas. They just took care of that problem. No. So I went into that aisle for science. Oh, yeah. And I observed other people and I was like, wow, you guys are having a problem. I observed other people and I was like, wow, you guys are having a problem. And then I grabbed like the two gallon jug of vodka and went on my way. I also went to Costco this weekend.

Oh, yeah. And sat in the parking lot. Did they let David in? OK, so, yeah. So update on that situation. I don't know if we talked about it. Just you and me or if we talked about it on the podcast yeah okay so um tiny bit of backstory is we uh we needed to go to costco because we like need dog food and stuff like that but the costco card is only in my name it's not in david's name and so the last time he went without me they like gave him a hard time about it we're like well

she's gonna need to be here from now on and uh you know because people are constantly trying to use fraudulent costco accounts um all the time it's non-stop and so we're like okay well we have to go but david's like you cannot go into costco it's way too busy like that's not safe yeah which i agree i haven't been going to the grocery store i haven't been going to any store with you know a large number of people in it and so and anyone who's new here brandy's pregnant so yes yeah yes so we decided that i would just ride in the car and i'd sit in the car and then if they gave him a hard time about it that he could then facetime me and be like look she's in the car but she can't come in and so he went and got our list of stuff and checked out and the guy like rang him up and everything and he was letting him pay and then he's like okay i gotta ask whose card is this

and david's like oh it's it's my fiance's and he's like okay you know she's really supposed to be here and he's like well she is here she's just in the car but she's you know seven months pregnant and shouldn't be in the store and the guy's like oh yeah yeah for sure no you're you're good you're good okay good yes thank god yes yeah so yes we were able to get our Costco purchases with minimal hassle. And I got to do some pretty good people watching in the parking lot. What did you see? You know, just the there was a whole just wide spectrum of how serious people take things and how not seriously they take. Yes.

Yes. You got people in practically a full hazmat suit and then people doing nothing and taking their small child into Costco with them. Like that blew my mind. The thing that amazes me is like the CDC has come out and they have said, hey, we should all probably be wearing masks. Yeah. It amazes me the number of people who are like, nope, not me. Not for me. And I get that the president doesn't want to wear his mask.

I mean, good Lord, put a mask on. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that alarmed me the most. Okay. So at Costco, and I don't know if this is specific to Kansas, but they have like limits on how many people can be in the store now. Yeah.

Yeah. So there's a line to get in. Yeah. They're doing a good job. Yeah. They're doing a really good job. And so like people can be in the store now. Yeah. So there's a line to get in. Yeah. They're doing a good job. Yeah. They're doing a really good job. And so like people are waiting in line. You go in,

you make your purchase, you come out, you know, each person comes out, they let another person in, whatever. I saw this couple like wait in line, go in and then come out with nothing.

Like what? Huh? There was nothing in there. Like what? Was that worth it? I don't understand huh made no purchase maybe they only wanted toilet paper they had toilet paper we bought toilet paper oh okay well i don't know what to tell you that we had like a list of things we

needed that we were sure they'd have and then we had like a couple of bonus items like oh if they have this like i really wanted honey crisp apples and they they're they have like these giant ones there that are so good and so i was like okay if they have those get those and if they have toilet paper get toilet paper and we got them both i don't want to brag but it was a pretty successful costco trip you know how i know you're rich brandy because i bought honey crisp apples yes from costa which means you spent ridiculously expensive at $17 no they were like $12 but that's still ridiculously expensive for apples they are the best apples though oh my gosh they're so good i've eaten one every day since we bought them i buy them also i am also a baller

um yeah my favorite thing that i have seen out and about is people who are wearing gloves which you know i wear gloves out to to like the stores and stuff so gloves mask but i've seen people wearing the gloves and then like touching their face and touching and it's like well no no those aren't like that's not like immunity. No. No. And then the other thing that drives me crazy is like they go into the store wearing their gloves. They do their thing and then they come out and then you get in the car with your gloves still on. Like that's, you're cross contaminating everything. You got to take those things off and throw them in a trash receptacle.

That's the other problem. People are just throwing them on the ground as if that's our society now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Should we talk about crimes? Yeah, we probably should. Okay. What you got, Brandy? What's that Scottish accent?

This is a Kristen case if I have ever heard one. Casey sent this to me. My sister Casey. You're familiar. I was going to say, who? So shout out to her. Also, shout out to this website, which they do the thing where they've got this great piece, but then there's no byline or anything. I hate that.

I hate that. Give people credit. Exactly. So the website is theunredacted.com. And this case, this piece they have on it is so all encompassing. It's basically all I needed. But I also pulled from a Mental Floss article by Deanna Chiopa, C-I-O-P-P-A, Chiopa. Okay.

And some from Wikipedia. All right. c-i-o-p-p-a chiopa okay and some uh from wikipedia so all right old timey disclaimer okay okay here we go all right it has been called the perfect murder or better yet the impossible murder because it would have been impossible for William Herbert Wallace to have murdered his wife, Julia. But it also seemed impossible that anyone else had done it. The Wallaces were what some might call an unusual couple. couple. It's 1931. And William and his wife, Julia, lived in Liverpool, the Anfield neighborhood of Liverpool, if you know the area. Oh, yeah. Right by the tree. Yes. Right by the tree, Kristen. Thank you. Yeah. William was a 52-year-old insurance salesman. And he was kind of, in all of these

articles, he's described as ailing or sickly. He had some serious chronic kidney problems. OK. And then his wife, who I believe was 50. But in a couple of articles, she's listed as being 60. But I saw her gravestone and I'm pretty sure that she was 50. OK. So she was described as a difficult woman.

She was, and I'm quoting here. Is this like 1930s difficult? Yes. No, no. She's just, you know, I don't know. You be the judge. She was fiercely suspicious of strangers and led a very sheltered life. So she had very few friends, didn't let like anyone in their home, and didn't often leave her home.

Sounds like me right now. I would describe you as a difficult woman, Kristen. Thank you, ma'am. And a former friend, like this is very specifically quoted as a former friend in all of these articles. Okay. Described the marriage as loveless and strained. So January 20th, 1931, 52 year old William Wallace is agitated, like even more so than normal. He was not like you're kind of like, you know,

easygoing guy. He always seemed to be in a bit of a mood. But on this particular night, weird that we don't call him that. Right, exactly. But on this particular night, he seemed more agitated than normal. He was looking for an address. It was an address he had never heard of before and one that he wasn't familiar with. And he was riding like a train or a tram or whatever you want to call it. Some articles call it the train. Some call it the tram. I don't know if they're different things. I don't give a tram. That was terrible. Terrible. I've been cooped up too long. Anyway, whether this was by his intention or not he had a very um memorable interaction with kind of everyone he came in contact with on his journey that night when he

was on the tram he repeatedly asked the ticket inspector to tell him when it was time for him to get off he made multiple comments about how he was a complete stranger to these parts and how he didn't know where he was going and all of this stuff. Like he just made a very, very big deal about how he didn't know where he was, didn't really know where he was going. But he was going to a specific address that he had written down on a piece of paper. 25 Menlove Gardens East. Should I be looking this up? I didn't look that one up. No, because it turns out it doesn't exist, Kristen.

Oh, okay. This is what William Wallace would find out that night. So he gets off the train and he's like on essentially like a wild goose chase for this address that turns out it doesn't even exist. 25 Menlove Gardens East. Turns out that Menlove Gardens North, South and West all existed, but no Menlove Gardens East. Well, that makes it a really good fake address then. Exactly. So he's searching and searching for this address and just getting more and more annoyed.

And hold on. Who gave him this address? Like, why is he wanting to get to this place? So it turns out that the previous night, he had gone to chess club. So he went to this chess club somewhat regularly, depending on which article you read, like, you know, he was a regular attendee, but he missed a lot of weeks because of his illness or whatever. Anyway, so on the previous night, he'd shown up at chess club, which took place at like this local little restaurant or cafe or whatever. And when he got there, he was given a note that someone had called for him the previous night and had said that his name was R.M. Qualtrough and that he needed to get a message to William Wallace.

And so the man who took the message was like, okay, he's like, I can get you a message. And the man when this man called this all RM Qualtrough called, he said, you know, is he going to be at chess club tomorrow? And the man who took the message was like, you know, I don't know, he comes pretty regularly. But you know, sometimes he doesn't, I can definitely get him the message. And, and by this man's memory, the guy seemed pretty sure that William Wallace would be there for chess club, whatever. So he's like, great, I'll take down the message. I'll get him to. And it turns out he wanted to set up some kind of insurance business meeting with William Wallace. And this is the best way he could come up with to get a hold of him. And so he said to come around

on the 20th at 730 for a meeting. And at this time, it's 1931. Things are, you know, we're kind of like in the Depression era in Britain. And so he decides that he's going to keep this appointment. William Wallace is, even though he doesn't know who this person is, he's never heard of R.M. Qualtrough or Qualtrough. I'm not really sure how it's pronounced. But he didn't seem like it was that weird of a thing to get this message when he showed up at chess club. And so he thought he'd keep the meeting

and head on over to 25 Menlove Gardens East at 730 the following night. That's when he finds out it's not there. He gets he goes all over this area asking random people if they know where this address is, you know, a couple people point them in different directions to the you know, the north, south and west Menlove Gardens. And the night just kind of drags on. Seven thirty comes and goes. And finally, after he's talked to enough people, he's talked to like the newspaper boy on the corner. He flags down a police officer at one point and recounts like this whole tale of the call and that he got a chess club and how he rode the tram and how he's a stranger in these parts

and all of this right so this is this is kind of odd right that he's making a point to speak to so many people and uh well and i mean unless okay that's a very cynical way to look at it brandy what if he's just really a guy who is lost and, you know, it's not like he's going to pull out his GPS or whatever. I mean, that's true. It's 1931. So yeah. So maybe you do go around and say, hey, I'm not familiar with the area. Can you please help me out? All right. That's one way to look at it. Some people choose to look at it as this was him trying to set up an alibi. Well, I will be the judge and jury, so keep going. If you want the answer to this, just stay tuned.

Finally, William decides that the address does not exist. He's been the victim of some kind of prank or somebody, at the very least, taking this address down wrong. And he decides to go back home. So he gets on another tram. He goes back home. And it's 45 p.m wait was it a train you know it might be a train might be a tram kristen i'm not i'm not here to to uh i want answers let's stop recording until you can get to the bottom of this missy so he gets home to 29 wolverton street liverpool should i be looking this up yeah you can absolutely look that up that still exists wolverton street liverpool okay okay hang on here we go oh you'll see like a brick building

with some cute yeah yeah okay i like it gets home. Two-story brick buildings, brick apartment buildings. Yeah, it looks cute. So he gets home and it's somewhere around 845 when William Wallace's next door neighbors come out. John and Florence Johnston. That poor man's name was John Johnston. Oh, that's evil. No.

And they notice that William seems irritated, aggravatedated he's like fiddling with the door and they're like every everything okay and he looks at them and he says you know with some concern in his voice he says that he can't get the doors unlocked he's tried the front door he's tried the back door and he looks at them and all of the lights are off in the house which is odd because his wife julia should have still still been up. Right. It's only like nine o'clock at night. Yeah. And so he's like, have you guys heard anything unusual tonight? And they tell him no. And then they follow him around to the back of the house where he's going to try the back door another time. Oddly enough, this time when he tries the back door he puts his key in

and it unlocks right away and so the johnstons wait outside the back door while william wallace goes in the house he lit once he was inside he lit a gas lamp and he carried it through the house with him and then a few minutes later he came back outside and said, with apparently no emotion, oh, come and see. She's been killed. Oh, God. Yeah. And so the Johnstons go in the house with William Wallace. And there in the front room, Julia Wallace is dead on the floor in front of the fireplace.

There is a fire going in the fireplace. And there is a fire going in the fireplace and there is blood everywhere there is blood spatter all over the walls of this room like seven feet high oh god and at this point again with no emotion william says they finished her look at her brains William says they finished her. Look at her brains. She had been beaten so badly in the head that a portion of her brain was exposed. So at this point, John Johnston tells his wife to stay with William. And then he goes and either, you know, he gets he gets the police and a doctor.

I don't know what you do in 1931. You don't call 911. But somehow he gets police and the doctor. I don't know what you do in 1931. You don't call 911. But somehow he gets police to the house. He gets a doctor to the house, which obviously they knew that there was no chance of a doctor saving her. But it just seemed like the right thing to do in the moment. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry.

I shouldn't laugh at that. I'm just picturing the doctor being like, well, it appears she is dead. It appears she's dead. Yes. I'm using all of my medical education right now for this moment yes so while they're waiting and they have to wait like you know 25 minutes or so for the police to get there william and mrs johnston are sitting there in the kitchen and william she have a name well i already told you it and I forgot it.

Florence. Her name is Florence. I'm sorry. I'm a pill today. Too much time in my home. So they're sitting in the kitchen. And at this point, William gets up and he checks one of the cupboards like in the kitchen that he keeps locked. And that's where he keeps his insurance premiums that he collects so we talked about this before about how like in old timey times the

insurance man went door to door and collected the premiums that seems to be what was going on in this situation he had like a tin that he kept his insurance money in and then he'd take it into the office however often so he gets that cabinet open and checks his collection money and there's four pounds missing. But there's a whole bunch more in there. Yes, there's a bunch more in there. And so by the time the police get there, they kind of look through the house and it seems that like one room seemed to have been gone through like the bedroom. There was like a couple of things that had been kind of tossed about, but not really even ransacked. Like, it was just like, you know, someone had looked through there. But there was Julia's handbag was still there on the kitchen table.

It hadn't been gone through. It had money in it. So robbery was clearly not the thing here. Yeah. And what are the chances that you just misplaced four pounds or maybe like. Well, yeah, exactly. Julia took some because she needed some grocery money or something. Yeah, I think there's definitely a possible explanation for only being four pounds missing.

So they start looking into the scene a little bit. And again, they are alarmed by the amount of blood. She's very clearly been badly beaten, but they can find no murder weapon anywhere. They searched the whole house. They searched the grounds. They can't find anything. And there was no sign of forced entry into the home. So how did they make entry into the home? They used the door, Kristen. Sure, Kristen. The only piece of evidence that there seemed to be was this partially burnt coat.

They called it a Macintosh coat that Julia's body was laying on. And then the dress that she was wearing was partially burnt. So what they thought is that the attack had happened right in front of this gas fireplace and that she had fallen onto that coat. And she had like her dress had like caught the fire as she was falling and had burned slightly and then burned part of that coat as well. But they didn't know if this coat belonged to Julia. It seemed weird that the coat wasn't on her. It was beneath her. Or if perhaps this coat belonged to the murderer yeah it's called a macintosh coat it's like a think like one of those like tan trench coat-y

things okay kind of a raincoat situation yes exactly like an hour goes by and they're just kind of you know assessing the scene like it's 1931 they don't know a lot about crime scene investigation at this point and so they're all just kind of standing around. Well, yeah, the neighbors were invited in to take a gander. Yes, exactly. What is this, the John Bonnet thing? Exactly, exactly. So they wait for like the police photographer to come and take some pictures of the scene. And they wait for this guy who works at Liverpool University to come and like give his expert opinion. That's as close as they had to forensics at this point. OK. And so the police photographer also happens to be the photographer for the

Liverpool Daily Post. Well, sure. So then this guy, John Edward Whitley McFall. So he's a lecturer in forensic medicine at the university. They call him in as their forensics expert. So even in 1931, determining a time of death based on rigor mortis alone was considered very out of date. Like there was a lot of other things that they were supposed to be taking into account, like levity of the blood and stuff like that. But this guy determined a cause of death completely on the state of rigor mortis that he determined a cause of death, a time of death, a time of death. And he said in his expert opinion that she had died about 8 p.m., 45 minutes before William Wallace returned home and her body was discovered.

He would later this McFall guy would later try and amend that time of death, despite the fact that no other testing was ever done. Like this was literally it. Like he pulled her arm up and saw how fast it fell and said, yeah, it looks like she's been dead since 8 p.m. Yes. Wow. OK. An autopsy was done and not much more was revealed by it. I mean, it was clear that she had been beaten on the head with some kind of blunt object and that there were several blows this was a very serious case of

overkill and that the fatal blows had come after she was already laying face down on the floor jeez this okay this is crazy because this is clearly a crime of passion yeah and if the only person she was ever around was her husband right yeah who did it i mean probably the husband right but could he have he was running all over wherever looking for that address maybe he just took the fudge off right after he killed her okay so here's a couple of things about that. Whoever had done this, the attack was so bad that they had to have been covered in blood. Like there was, I mean, just blood everywhere. Doesn't even begin to describe it in this case.

And so it was spattered so badly around the whole room they're like okay whoever did this either left this house completely drenched in julia's blood or they washed up before they left and so they did a test on the drains in the house so the sinks and the toilets and turns out that they had not been used that night so whoever did this had to have left the house completely drenched in blood and no one noticed it that no way yeah no way how do you how can you determine that a toilet has not been used i mean i don't know it's 1931 they did some kind of test k mean, I don't know. It's 1931. They did some kind of test, Kristen. I don't know.

Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. They found no blood in the drains or in no sign that any water had even passed through them that evening. Okay. I don't know. Old-timey pipes.

I guess you can tell if they're wet or not. Okay, okay, okay. I'm not an old-timey plumber. But you are a modern- plumber and boy are you a good one that's right call brandy egan for all your plumbing needs so they did a more thorough search looking for this murder weapon because nothing was found at the scene they searched surrounding yards because this house if you've looked up the address you know it's kind of like a row house like it's like yeah you know there's lots of attached houses to it. And so they checked like

the surrounding yards and like the I don't know, the drainage ditches or whatever. And they couldn't find anything. They spoke to the Wallace's like housekeeper. And she told the police that she believed that a metal fire poker was missing. And then some kind of iron bar that was typically in the parlor was also missing so this is what they believed were probably the murder weapon one of those items but they again they didn't know how it was no longer in the house where did it go what had been done with it yeah throughout the investigation william wallace talks openly to the police he doesn't you know he speaks very calmly which I think is very odd, but he doesn't refuse to speak to them or anything.

And the detectives like thought his demeanor was very odd because he was very unemotional, very flat. But that's just according to, you know, people who knew him, that's just how he was. And he recounted, yeah, he recounted to them his whole crazy night about how he'd been on that wild goose chase looking for that address and that call. He'd gotten that message from that RM Qualtrough and all of that. And so they asked him if there was anyone that he would suspect, you know, that had any ill will towards him or to Julia. And he said, I have no suspicion of anyone.

Hmm. And so they were kind of at a stale point. They didn't really know where to go with this case. And so they started, they decided they'd follow up on that. Well, I didn't know. I didn't, I couldn't think of the word I wanted, Kristen. How dare you? Stalemate?

Sure. They were at a stalemate. Thank you. I'm sorry. I am being such a dick. I'm being such a difficult woman this episode i'll get it together as my pledge you're fine well i don't want us to get to a stale point in our friendship that's right that's right we got to keep the keep the fire going

so they decide they're gonna even though like they didn't know how it could be related they decided to look into that weird call and in the next couple of days they were able to actually track that phone call which apparently was something they could do in 1931 wait so that was a real phone call it wasn't made up by him it was a real phone call that took place the phone call came into the chess club just as he said it had but the phone booth that it came from was just 400 yards from the wallace's house okay all right well that's ridiculous and uh i think i gave erroneous information earlier i think i said that the message had been left for him the day before he went to chess club it was left the day he went to chess club but asking asking for a meeting the following day. I apologize for my misspeaking. But when they traced this call, they found that it

was placed from this phone booth that was 400 yards from the house. And that when William Wallace went to chess club, he happened to catch a tram, you know, right by that phone booth. Wow, weird. what a crazy coincidence and that call had come in you know just a couple minutes before william would have gotten on that tram and headed to chess club classic case of bad luck right just a weird coincidence and so at this point the police are like okay so he placed the call himself, right? Yeah, of course he did. But according to the guy who took the message at the chess club, he didn't think that it sounded like William Wallace's voice. Well, of course he disguised his voice a little.

I mean, come on now. The police, you know, started talking to people who knew the couple and it seemed to them that yes wallace had probably made the call himself and had used it to try and set up an airtight alibi so that he could pull off this murder and look as if he was elsewhere but the timing the timing just didn't match up it seemed that it would have been impossible for him to pull it off he was seen you know he was on a tram in the minlove gardens area at 706 and people had seen julia several people in fact had seen julia alive between 6 30 and 6 45 that night that would have only given him 15 minutes to brutally murder his wife clean himself all up and then go catch this tram they just didn't think it was likely

so police tried to do a reenactment they got like their youngest fittest officer to do a run-through of this and see if he could do it and even he couldn't do it in that amount of time so there was no way a woman had to die just for that exercise though so they oh my gosh so so there was no way this sickly 52 year old man pulled off in that time window yeah shit what yes so at this point they're like hold on hold on hold on hold on give me the time frame again of when she was last seen alive and okay several people placed her alive between 630 and 645 p.m. And William Wallace arrived in Menlo Gardens on a tram at 706 p.m. So he would have had like a maximum of 15 minutes to pull this off, clean himself all up, ditch the murder weapons. Yeah, it just doesn't seem possible.

OK, but how many people say they saw her alive? And I mean, are they super sure or just a little sure like you know i don't know i didn't speak to them personally kristin seems like you did very little research for this this is nuts yeah so the police are like totally befuddled by this they're like okay he couldn't have done it. And they try and track down whoever this Qualtrough person is. Turns out that doesn't seem to be a real person, obviously. And they thought it looked like whoever had killed Julia had had pulled off the perfect crime. Yeah. A woman was murdered. There was no weapon found no plausible suspects no witness

to the crime and the body was found in a locked house that's weird yes this is weird despite all of this evidence to his alibi and you know not being able to link him anyway to the murder, they decided to move forward and charge him with the murder of his wife. Well, what? Yes. In April of 1931, William Wallace stood trial for the murder of his wife. No. Yeah. They didn't have enough they had nothing they had nothing so at this trial this was a very short trial obviously there's no fucking evidence well yeah they didn't have to be like okay it's gonna take a couple weeks to present yeah no this was a four day trial start to finish okay so at the trial the prosecution argued that obviously william wallace had done this and he'd done it naked so that he would have

a lot less cleanup this was like made a huge impression in the courtroom apparently people found this very salacious and the thought of this 52 year old man stripping down naked and and murdering his wife but how had he cleaned up the blood off of himself if the drains hadn't been used that night? That is so ridiculous. Prosecution didn't care to, you know, elaborate on the things that didn't fit their theory. Well, yeah, because it was so obvious what happened. So obviously, yeah, he had so obviously just got naked and killed his wife. Yeah. And obviously, I don't have to explain anything because my points are so good. That's exactly right.

The defense obviously countered this by laying out the timeline and saying, you know, this is when she was last seen. This was the time death. And it was at this time that that that forensic expert had tried to adjust his his timing a little bit to maybe fit the prosecution's case a little better. But obviously that did very little yeah so they're like you know the police themselves did a whole reenactment and weren't able to to figure this out so william wallace is just an insurance salesman he's not a wealthy guy but he's being you know charged with murder and he needs like a good

defense and so the insurance company they worked for he worked for prudential and they had like a labor union or whatever at that time you know sorry i didn't look into this that much and i didn't write any of it down so this is really very christian right but he asked them to help fund his defense like this union that he's a part of and they did a secret mock trial before agreeing to represent him or pay for his representation to see what a mock jury would decide. And a mock jury found him not guilty. And so they decided to back him and pay for his defense. So at this trial, he actually testified in his own defense, but he was very dry on the stand.

He spoke very calmly, answered all the questions very dryly. And some felt that this really had an impact on the jury, that they thought that his demeanor was odd. Also, apparently this did not go in his favor. He wore these round rimmed glasses that made him look like Dr. Crippen. Who's Dr. Crippen? You did the case, Kristen. Dr. Holly Crippen. Yes.

Torso guy. Yes. Oh, my gosh. That was on one of our bonus episodes. So not everybody's heard that case. So he looked like a literal famous murderer. He looked like a literal famous murderer. Yes.

Bad look. He looked like a literal famous murderer. He looked like a literal famous murderer, yes. And so despite the fact that there was no evidence against him, the jury deliberated for an hour, somewhere between one and four hours, depending on which article you read, and they found him guilty under a unanimous verdict. Oh, wow. The court clerk announced the verdict and he said, you, William Herbert Wallace, have been convicted of murder upon the verdict and he said you william herbert wallace have been convicted of murder upon the verdict of the jury have you anything to say why a sentence of death

should not be passed upon you according to law and william wallace replied i am not guilty i can't say anything else. Yeah. William Wallace was sentenced to the mandatory sentence of death by hanging. Oh. And it's 1931. So they did it like three months later. One month later. It was scheduled for May of 1931. Good Lord. Scheduled for one month later.

31. Good Lord. Scheduled for one month later. Somehow, though, William Wallace got to quick work of appealing his conviction. And just before his execution date, the Court of Criminal Appeal in London looked at his case. And in an unprecedented move, this had never been done before they overturned the verdict wait they never overturned a murder conviction they had never overturned a murder conviction on these grounds wow that there was not enough evidence to prove and justify a verdict of guilty yeah so this is what they said. They said the case against Wallace

was not proved with the certainty which is necessary in order to justify a verdict of guilty. The result is that this appeal will be allowed and this conviction is quashed. William Herbert Wallace was a free man. They did not retry him for the murder. Well, yeah, because they didn't have new evidence they had no new evidence yeah would you i'm like on the edge of my seat what is next so this was huge news obviously yeah press went crazy the details of the case the the accusations of him you know committing this murder against his wife that turns out to be the perfect murder. All of these headlines. One headline says he called him the chess player.

They couldn't checkmate. OK, that is stupid. Very stupid. To this day, this case remains unsolved. That is fascinating. They never found out any any more details. That is fascinating. They never found out any more details.

There's been lots of theories floated around, one including that there was this man that the Wallaces knew fairly well who had some kind of like did some nefarious deeds in his free time. And there was a theory that William Wallace had paid him to carry out the murder because he may have been trusted by Julia enough that she would have let him in the house. He may have been trusted by Julia enough that she would have let him in the house. That was the big sticking point is that either someone had a key or whoever committed this murder knew Julia enough that she would have let them in the house. Yeah. And she didn't let anyone in the house. But they actually looked into that guy and he seemed to have an alibi for that night as well. What was it? I don't know okay yeah i i feel like surely the husband was involved on some level yeah but how how did he do it i think either either he had someone help him just like you said yeah or like the thing about the pipes weren't wet you know blah blah i'm just wondering if like somebody wasn't truly an expert in what they said they were and so like he got a little more help yeah then then he should have yeah yeah i mean it's definitely possible because you just

you have to wonder about motive you know yeah yeah i mean obviously but there didn't seem to be any great great motive for william wallace to kill his wife other than they had some kind of strained loveless marriage do you know how many stand to gain anything from it brandy do you know how many husbands murder their wives like i agree yeah i mean it happens it happens yeah yeah huh so william wallace was a free man he decided to you know obviously the press was like constantly at his door and he hated it and so he moved away to a different part of liverpool got like a little quiet bungalow but he only lived for like two more years before he died of those kidney troubles wow and uh yeah so this is often described as like the second biggest unsolved crime in

london history um or jack in London history. Or Jack. In history. Yeah. Well, a little guy called Jack the Ripper might be number one. But yeah, there's been all kinds of people have written all kinds of books about it and theorized about who who really did it. But it seems to be either the perfect murder or the impossible murder. That is fascinating. Yeah.

Absolutely fascinating. Oh, that was so good. Yeah. Absolutely fascinating. Oh, that was so good. Yeah, I thought it was a great one. Thank you to Casey for sending that over to me. Thank you, Casey. What do you think happened? Gosh.

Yeah, I think it's probably likely that he, to me, the most plausible theory is that he paid someone to kill his wife. There's another theory that it was the neighbors that did it which i don't think that there's really anything but the neighbors had a key to the house is the only reason that kind of got floated around yeah and they would have had a lot of time to like do it and then clean it up like the call could have been placed to to lure william wallace out of the house while they did it but what would they have stood to gain from it yeah i don't know hmm hmm who knows who i don't think anyone will ever know well seems we're both covering cases this week from across the pond excellent say i hate it when people say that i told you the thing that my dad said about london right about her middle name what'd he say so david's last name is pond so london will be london pond and my dad said you know what her middle name should be across the across the

there are no bad ideas in brainstorming brandy i think you gotta throw that in the old hat you know i don't think so it's not too late i don't think so did you hear that amy schumer and her husband had to rename their baby no because they named him first name Gene. Yeah. Middle name Atel, as in Dave Atel. Uh-huh. And it wasn't until, I don't know how old their baby is at this point, but it. But that looks like genital? Yeah, yeah. It sounds like genital.

Oh my gosh. So they changed it. Okay. Ready to talk about some royals, Brandy? Let's talk about some titties okay that's rude you keep up with royal news right you're into it you know some yeah yeah i like the royals the kansas city royals no you like megan markle and stuff right yeah? Yeah, I do. Yeah, of course. Okay, here we go.

It was the summer of 2012. Kate Middleton, the Duchess of Cambridge, and Prince William had been married for a little over a year when they took a little holiday to... Oh, my God, there's a bunch of French words in this. No, good. Everybody just hang on tight. To province, France, Provence. this so good everybody just hang on tight to province france provence they were at yeah for all french words i will be keenan thompson in a bathtub they were at this amazing 640 acre estate when the couple went out onto the terrace of the guest house where they were staying. William was in his swim trunks and Kate was in a bikini. You know, they just wanted

to get some sun. So they laid out and Kate took off her bikini top. No big deal, right? She and right she and her husband were alone completely alone except they weren't completely alone turns out a member or maybe members of the paparazzi were hidden half a mile away. And they had long range lenses on their cameras. So. Gosh. Half a mile. Yes. Can you. It's quite the fucking zoom lens.

Yes. Can you fucking believe this? Half a mile away. Oh my gosh. So without her knowledge or consent, obviously, the paparazzi took these half naked pictures of Kate Middleton. And obviously, the paparazzi took these half-naked pictures of Kate Middleton. Almost immediately, the paparazzi went around to the British tabloids and they were like, ha ha ha, I've got topless photos of the future Queen of England.

Who wants them? And the British tabloids were like, not us. Really? Yes. Yes. They were like, we are not interested at all. all okay that shocked the shit out of me so it sounds like it shocks you why does it yes i find that very shocking i mean because what's more salacious than that like the i but even that's too bad for the british tabloids yeah i mean the british tabloids are pretty bad. I know. I know. That's why I was like, holy shit.

Okay, so let's pause here to talk a little bit about British tabloids and their relationship with the royal family. Specifically, I want to look at the paparazzi's relationship with Prince William's mother, the late Princess Diana. Okay, so the paparazzi hounded Diana. Papa, paparazzi. Oh my God, I was singing that all day yesterday. I can't help it. You say paparazzi and then it's like all day long. Oh, Lady Gaga, so catchy.

So her marriage to Prince Charles garnered an audience of like 750 million viewers. And from that moment on, the paparazzi tracked her every move. After she and Charles divorced, paparazzi continued to follow her. She was the most photographed person in the world. Wow. Sounds like a fucking nightmare. That does sound like a nightmare. A photo of Princess Diana meant a huge payday for the paparazzi. I didn't write any of this down, but like some of them went for like hundreds of thousands of pounds. One went for over a million pounds. I mean, that is just nuts for a photo. It's pretty heavy.

A million pounds. Oh, my God. And then they somehow converted that into money. I don't know how. But Diana hated the relentless attention. She famously shouted at one of the paparazzi, you make my life hell. Sometimes, I mean, ultimately, they led to her death. Spoiler alert.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought everybody knew. No one knows. They're finding out right now. No. So sometimes she'd come around a corner, see them, and then just start crying. The paparazzi referred to these moments when she cried and told them to leave her alone as her loon attacks. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. Because it's crazy to want your privacy? Yeah. Because it's crazy to go off on people. Yeah, they were douchebags. They were complete douchebags. Kristen, you got like a bird losing its mind outside your window? Yes, I do.

Can you hear it? I can hear it, yes. Yeah, the birds are out in full force right now. They are going crazy. Oh, sorry. Oh, these headphones. swear i know that's i can't wait until we record normally again and we don't have to wear fucking headphones all the time they keep sliding like such fucking babies yeah these headphones are so terrible

no one has this tragedy you know i think a bunch of the frontline workers are going to listen to this podcast than us. We're suffering in this time. You know, I think a bunch of the frontline workers are going to listen to this podcast and they're just going to start crying

when they hear about the sacrifices that we are having to make. That's right. And my hair's all smushed. And you guys, I've been deep conditioning my hair like crazy

and these headphones are just sliding off. But we all make sacrifices. That're ridiculous should we tell people we're kidding just for like the one of course we're please we're we're of course we're kidding oh my goodness brandy's not i'm kidding but brandy's not i am i am kidding let her know how you feel about that stop it you know what are you oh my memory is so bad what was it you were saying before we hit record about how you're better than doctors i would never say that i mean i know we were recording so i i mean you'll have to say it now again i would never say that. I mean, I know we were recording, so I mean, you'll have to say it now.

I would never say that. So, you know, Diana hated this constant hounding from the paparazzi, but there wasn't much that the royal family could do. They were public figures. Of course they would be photographed. They were just expected to deal with it. But over time, Diana came to feel differently. Yeah, she'd become a public figure, but she hadn't signed up for this. The constant hounding and invasion of her privacy was unlike anything any royal had ever experienced technology had outpaced the old rules surely she had some rights see i think this is the problem with like you see this with um

i don't know like cases like cyber bullying revenge all this stuff, like all of our old laws or our old ways of doing things are just useless in the face of technological changes. Yeah. So obviously, royals had always been expected to put up with this shit, but no one had had to deal with what she was dealing with before being the most photographed person on earth. That is crazy. That is crazy. So in 1993, Princess Diana was working out at an LA fitness and she didn't realize it, but the gym owner, Bryce Taylor, was secretly taking photos of her as she worked out. He then sold those photos to a British tabloid, and then an American tabloid, and then a tabloid in New Zealand. Bryce Taylor made a lot of money off of those photos. But he messed with the wrong princess. Because after years of putting up with constant invasions of her privacy, Princess Diana decided to fight back with a lawsuit.

Yeah. So she sued the gym. She sued the Mirror Group newspapers and she sued Bryce Taylor. You're going to love this, Brandy. It settled out of court. So in 1994, the gym settled. Damn it! But Bryce held out.

He refused to hand over the money he'd made off of those photos. And the Mirror Group newspapers also held out. It looked like they were headed for a trial. Which would have been fucking bonkers because the last time a member of the royal family had even testified in court had been in 1891 when my gosh yes and it was just when like the prince of wales testified in a friend's libel case you know it wasn't some big thing yeah but diana wanted to fight back she was willing to go to court but with one week until the case was scheduled to go to court little brycey and the

tabloids settled with princess diana so okay i think you're gonna be okay with this obviously it was a confidential settlement but like with all things royal, the details have leaked. So I can tell you some stuff. Okay, good. I was going to be pissed. Here's what people say the settlement was. They say the tabloids paid all of Princess Diana's legal costs, which were insane. I mean, we're talking like a million pounds, and donated 200,000 pounds to the charities of her choice.

Bryce Taylor had to fork over the 300 pounds that he'd made off the photos and he had to apologize. Okay. What? I hate forced apologies. Yeah, I do too. I mean, can you possibly be less sincere than that? Exactly. It's been two years and you're just now settling. Yeah. Get ready to get even more grossed out. Oh, good.

So, you know, that's the rumored settlement. But here's the rumor on top of the rumor. The rumor is that the royal family was so desperate to keep this thing from going to trial that they actually gave Bryce the 300,000 pounds, which he then handed over to Princess Diana in the settlement. Wow. Yeah. So really, he he took no. Assuming this is true, he took no punishment for this. And this thing never went to court. Wow.

At any rate, the important thing to know is that Princess Diana was engaged in a public battle with the paparazzi and the tabloids. And then, of course, two years later, on August 31st, 1997, she was in a fatal car accident she and her fiance their bodyguard and driver were being chased by paparazzi earlier in the night they tried to use a decoy vehicle to throw the paparazzi off their scent but of course it didn't work in the wee hours of the morning they were driving through the oh boy pont de alama oh no yeah that's absolutely how it's they were driving through a tunnel going about double the speed limit when the driver lost control of the vehicle and crashed into a pole like i said paparazzi had been following them and when they saw the crash some of them rushed over to help and some of them rushed over to take pictures yeah yeah so what is said is that like you know

some rushed over to try to get the doors open to try to you know get people out and then you know when they got the doors open that's when other members of the paparazzi leaned in and were taking photos, which is just disgusting. And of course, all that film was confiscated, as it should have been. So the driver, Henry Paul, and Princess Diana's fiancé, I think it's Dodi Fayed, D-O-D-I, died on the scene. And the bodyguard, Reverend Reese Jonesones survived and princess diana died later at the hospital a french investigation into the crash found that the driver was solely responsible

henry had been drinking and he'd apparently been using prescription drugs and that the paparazzi were not responsible. Wow. Okay. Yeah. How do you feel about that? I mean, it's not great that the driver was under the influence, but I think the paparazzi definitely played a role. Yeah.

And this could be a whole other episode, and maybe it will be one day, because there's a lot more court stuff. This is just the French investigation. There was another investigation that did, you know, This could be a whole other episode and maybe it will be one day because there's a lot more court stuff. This is just the French investigation. There was another investigation that did, you know, assign some responsibility to the paparazzi. For this episode, I'm just focusing on how her death impacted British tabloids. Because even though the initial investigation put all the blame on the driver, that's not how the public saw it.

And that's certainly not how Diana's family saw it. A 1997 Gallup poll showed that 43% of respondents in the UK thought that the photographers were extremely responsible for the car crash. People hated the tabloids in the days after Diana's death. And the Mirror and the Sun had their lowest sales figures since 1962. Wow. Yep. So the tabloids had to do something. So after her death, the Press Complaints Commission revised its code of practice. They said they were going to set the toughest press regulations in all of Europe. So here's some of the new rules. You ready? Yep. Photographers could no longer use long lens cameras to take pictures of people in private places without

their consent. Hmm. Also, you know, until this point, there'd been a lot of talk about what is a private place versus what's a public place, but there were no actual definitions. But after Diana's death, we got one. Oh, wow. A private place was now, quote, public or private property where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy. I should mention, by the way, a lot of this comes from a wonderful article I read in Vogue. Also, I'm sorry. Hold on. I'm sorry. You cut out.

Where did you read the article? Vogue. Vogue magazine. I'm familiar. Ever heard of Vogue, Brandy? Yes. Brandy is also if publications were to ignore these rules the editors should be held responsible it wouldn't matter if the photos were taken by staff members or by freelancers the responsibility would fall on the editor which I think is good yeah because ultimately

they make the call right right? Absolutely. Absolutely. The public was really happy about the revisions to these rules, and they were especially happy about the new rules in regard to children. So, you know, obviously I'm not getting into everything, but basically William and Harry became off limits to the paparazzi. Just because they had famous parents didn't mean that the paparazzi could keep following them around. Under these new guidelines, if an unofficial photo was taken of a child, there had to be a reason. And the reason couldn't just be, oh, this kid has famous parents and we think it'll sell more magazines, which I think is a pretty good rule. Yeah, will sell more magazines, which I think is a pretty good rule. Yeah, that's a great rule.

Okay, correct me. Your good buddy Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard, they've, they've like, yeah, taken a hard stance on this. Yeah, they've actually, they've, they've, yeah, dealt with the tabloids a lot because they, I don't know if they've actually sued them. I said that and then I'm going to backtrack on that right away. They've made a lot of public statements about the tabloids because like specifically they took a picture of Dax Shepard like with a woman that he dated casually years before he ever met Kristen Bell and published it with a whole story about how he was cheating on her with this woman. And like timeline 100 doesn't match up yeah and like the

woman in the picture sold the tabloids that picture for you know an exorbitant amount of money yes yeah okay well f her yes i'm sure that'll be a real unpopular take, but I don't like that. Right. Well, seriously, get a fucking life, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so for years, William and Harry were left alone. But then they became grown men.

Mm-hmm. And they were no longer protected by these rules. And, of course, by this point, it had been years since Diana's death. And the tabloids had kind of loosened up some of these restrictions that they'd put on themselves. For example, shortly after Princess Diana died, the Daily Mail was like, Hear ye, hear ye, we pledge to never publish another paparazzi photo ever. Which, I mean, obviously, I don't know how long that lasted. Maybe two seconds?

Right. So, in 2003, when Prince William began dating Kate Middleton, the paparazzi was all over them. You know, here they are, this young, hot couple. Prince Harry started hitting the club, and the paparazzi were all over him. Oh, God. Do you remember when he dressed up as a Nazi for Halloween? Yes.

Ugh. Yeah. Not good. Why do people do that? I don't know. What the hell? I don't know. Maybe he dressed as Charlie Chaplin and he took his hat off

okay i saw the picture that was a full nazi uniform that's a bit from i don't know some sitcom it's from the office it's from is it from the office i couldn't remember yeah over the years things got worse and the paparazzi became progressively more invasive in 2009 kate middleton was playing tennis she had no idea she was being photographed but apparently she was and the photos went everywhere. Can you imagine? You're playing? No, like, who wants? I mean, although, okay. Rude. Nevermind. What? Well, I was just about to say, who wants photos of someone playing tennis? What could be more boring? But then I remembered, do you know the photo of Donald Trump playing tennis that's all over the internet? Yeah, with this big ass. Yeah. And then I thought do you know the photo of Donald Trump playing tennis that's all over the internet yeah with this big ass yeah I and then I thought you know there's a lot to make fun of there but

I don't need to make fun of his body but I mean man you can totally see those tighty-whities the lines I mean it's I think there's plenty to make fun of Donald Trump we don't have to talk about his tiny whities or his sizable sizable rump fair enough very very low hanging fruit these are these are the guidelines for our podcast you guys think we don't have any standards well we do and they're very low we won't make fun of donald trump's underpants or his butt. You know, these photos went everywhere. Obviously, it's against the rules. I assume she was somewhere private, you know, yada yada. So the royal family wanted to do something. So they reached out to a lawyer named Gerard Tyrell. And Gerard got on his megaphone and he was like, hey, douche lords,

you know, you're not supposed to take long lens pictures of people in private situations. So, you know, cut it out. Consider this a warning. If you do it again, the royals will sue your asses. And that's all a direct quote. And also, it's what we in the writing biz call foreshadowing. foreshadowing. So fast forward to the case that brought us here today. Was that the longest detour I've ever taken us on? It was. It was great, though. I loved every minute of it. Yeah. You're pointing out the window, you know, waving. Yeah. Good stuff. So it's 2012 and topless photos of Kate Middleton are being shopped around to the British tabloids. And, you know, maybe because of the relatively recent crackdown or maybe because of how Princess Diana died. Or then there's no shot in hell of this. Maybe because of ethics.

They all said no. They did not want those photos. But what was the poor paparazzi to do brandy they'd gone to all that trouble to get those pictures and now the british tabloids wouldn't buy them poor paparazzi really yeah just imagine first of all can you imagine if that's how you make your living you go hide in the bushes half a mile away from someone's vacation villa and you take half-naked photos of them. Not my dream job, I'll tell you that.

What is your dream job, Brandy? Podcaster. No, for real, is it? No, I mean, I enjoy this very much no um ouch no i mean i love doing this i wouldn't call i mean i've never like it just i enjoy it so much that doesn't feel like a job okay you don't have to kiss my big ass through my tidy wash i think my dream job would be interior decorator oh my gosh You should go do it. I mean, I'm a hairstylist.

I do great. I love that. Well, but if it's your dream job, go do your dream job. I enjoy my job very much. It's not like I do a job that I hate. I understand. I understand. But you only get one life, Brandy.

Okay. No, I think. I don't't know i was thinking about this today i feel like you're living your dream already kind of oh isn't that sweet well like you know i love writing books and i'm writing books now i haven't published one so i guess that would be the real dream but like writing books and podcasting with you like man yeah i know i i love doing hair and i love doing this podcast it's it's great that's why like yes if i had to pick another job or like that's yeah for a long time i've said my dream job would be to be an interior decorator just because i like the idea of getting to decorate using other people's money well hell yeah sounds wonderful i said hell yeah. I would hate that.

Why? I don't know. I don't want to have to go meet people, talk to them about what they like. Yeah, you don't love the interfacing with the other people. I'm just like that difficult woman in your case. You are a difficult woman. I mean, I have to. Yeah, that's what my job is. Like, I do that all day.

Just the people come to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I gotcha. I gotcha. Talking to the people does not bother me. You know what's oddly enough I don't like doing, though?

What? This is so ridiculous because I talk to strangers all day long for my job. I don't like calling people on the phone. I hate it. Oh, I think a lot of people are like that. Yeah. I don't like calling people on the phone. I hate it. Oh, I think a lot of people are like that. Yeah. I don't mind calling people on the phone. Huh.

You want to be my assistant? Absolutely not. Why don't you like talking on the phone? I don't know. I get really anxious when I have to make like a business phone call. I don't like it. Oh. I don't even know.

I don't even know what it is about it. Like I do fine. I'm very professional. Well professional well sure you've never like can you imagine you just shout something out you shouldn't i'm on the toilet you know you're not even on the toilet it just comes out i just i really don't enjoy it i don don't know why. Okay. Okay. You're a very mysterious woman, Brandy. I am. Okay. Try to crack this egg. So, you know, the poor paparazzi, as you've said, they tried to sell these photos to the

I'm sorry. I said they were the poor paparazzi. Yeah, those were your words. I'm just quoting them back to you. Direct quote? Okay. Yeah. they were the poor paparazzi.

Yeah, those were your words. I'm just quoting them back. Direct quote? Okay. Yeah. So what they ended up doing was selling them to a French tabloid called Closer.

Or Closer. I don't know. Depends on how you say it. It's Closer. Maybe they're the Closer, you know? Remember that show with Keira Knightley?

I think it's like getting you closer to the celebrities. OK, yeah, you're you're absolutely 100 percent right. Yes. So Closer was thrilled. They had topless, nonconsensual photos of Kate Middleton. What more could you want in life? Oh, my God.

Yep. Yep. Not total pile of shits at all. So before they printed the photos, they ran a teaser. Here's what it said. The future Queen of England, such as you have never seen her, and such that you will never see her again. Oh, God.

Okay, so. I hate that. Yeah. Kate and William, of course, heard heard about this and they were furious and they tried to stop the magazine but it was too late soon closer closer closer i'm sorry it's in my head is closer and you know we can't stop this train soon closer ran the photos under the headline only in closer kate and william they're very hot holidays in provence kate and william were super upset as soon as the pictures ran the issued a statement. Here's part of what it said. is reminiscent of the worst excesses of the press and paparazzi during the life of Diana,

Princess of Wales, and all the more upsetting to the Duke and Duchess for being so. Their Royal Highnesses had every expectation of privacy in the remote house. It is unthinkable that anyone should take these photographs, let alone publish them. Officials acting on behalf of their Royal Highnesses are consulting with lawyers to consider what options may be available to the Duke and Duchess. So what options are available? Well, a couple. So Kate and William consulted with lawyers

and they got an injunction barring the photos from being spread any further. The French court basically said, hey, you guys are right. These photos were highly intrusive and you had every right to think that you were alone. So Kate and William won their civil complaint. But here's the shitty thing. It didn't really matter because even after they got the injunction, the photos continued to appear in quite a few different European publications. And more importantly, in my opinion, they were all over the Internet, you know.

So anyway, so they look themselves in the mirror and they said, let's go to court. Perfectly synchronized. They filed a criminal lawsuit for breach of privacy. Closer was stunned. I'm sorry. Say it again without me laughing. I apologize. No, it's okay.

Were you laughing at my huge pause? Yes. Okay. I was thinking about whether I should say something. I think I'm going to go ahead and say it. OK, I'm going to say international case disclaimer, which is a thing I hate to say. But I have to say it because there's there's a lot of good court stuff here. I think a lot of the most detailed articles are in French.

I think a lot of the most detailed articles are in French. And so I found a lot of good British articles and, you know, just other articles in English. But it's mostly kind of written after the fact. So what I'm saying is I did my best here. All right. Very good. All right. So, you know, they filed this criminal lawsuit for breach of privacy. And Closer was stunned.

They were like, oh, they just amused. That was terrible. That was terrible. These photographs we selected were very tasteful. That was terrible. Can you tell I've never been to France?

Or to Canada? Okay. can you tell i've never been to france or to canada okay here's what they honest to god said are you ready for some grade a bullshit i am i'm holding on to my overalls um should we talk about the fact that we're dressed the same today i know we had we so we did a video call this morning oh my god and with a third party yeah a third party who does not know us who does not know us yes it's we have we both have black shirts with white stripes we looked like we looked like a dorky like family from the 90s who's all dressed the same on the beach. Only it's not even like, you know, those photos are like, let's all wear jeans and white t-shirts.

No, we're wearing the exact same top. Exactly the same. Embarrassing. And here we are trying to get people to take us seriously. That's right. We're dressed like a set of five-year-old twins. We're the devilment twins. Okay, so here's what they said.

The photographs we have selected are by no means degrading. They show a beautiful, in love, modern, holidaying couple in their normal life. The article reports on the couple's recent stay in the south of France. Her tits are out! Exactly. That's, no, that's not acceptable, that's not tasteful, that's nothing. No, that's not allowed. Well, and by no means degrading first of all who gives a shit about

what you think is degrading i'd love to see your tits out there ma'am that's not your call to make was that not where you thought that was going me demanding to see the tits of some random person. I do wonder, though, because like a lot of their defense is just like, no, no, it's fine. These are very flattering photos. It's like, all right. It says you. It's not your call to make. How about you get half naked, assume you're alone, and then we'll take some pictures, blast them all over the Internet and see how you like it.

Yeah. Anyway. So, you know, obviously make made an excellent point there was no harm done unless you hate love you know in which case so it took years for this thing to go to trial everyone expected it to be settled out of court because obviously the royals hardly ever sue anybody. They don't want the scandal. But William in particular seemed like he was ready for a fight. He did not want his... Was he ready to rumble? He was ready to rumble because he did not want his wife

to get a taste of what had happened to his mom. Of course. Yeah. So in an interview about his mom's life, he said, Very sadly, a lot of my memories revolve around trying to cheer her up. I believe she cried more to do with the press intrusion than anything else in her life. The impact it was having on her that we could then see and feel was very difficult to understand. She was subjected to treatment that frankly, nowadays, people would find utterly appalling.

nowadays people would find utterly appalling yeah that's terrible yeah in other words he wasn't putting up with this shit and neither was kate it took five years but finally in may of 2017 the trial began wow kate and william asked for 1.5 million euros, which apparently is like an insane ask. I guess French courts, from what I've read, really don't award much in cases like these, like not much at all. And one thing that doesn't sound like that much money to me. I don't think so either. I mean, I read it and was like, well, yeah, topless photos without her consent that are now everywhere. and was like, well, yeah, topless photos without her consent that are now everywhere. Sure. Yeah. 1.5 mil sounds just about right, if not low. But in a French court, this was kind of a crazy thing to ask for. The couple's legal team argued that the photos were obviously a gross invasion of privacy. So William and Kate never appeared in court, but William did send a statement to be read at a hearing.

And here's part of what it said. In September 2012, my wife and I thought that we could go to France for a few days in a secluded villa owned by a member of my family and thus enjoy our privacy. We know France and the French, and we know they are, in principle, respectful of private life, including that of their guests. The clandestine way in which these photographs were taken was particularly shocking to us as it breached our privacy. Yes, it fucking did. Yes, it did. So there were six people named in the lawsuit. They were a mix of magazine editors and photographers.

I believe it was three photographers and three higher ups. And of course, they all denied any wrongdoing. The defense essentially argued that when you're a member of the royal family, you have no private life. Your public life and private life are inseparable. One of the lawyers for Cl closer was paul albert what who argued that when you're a royal your private life and your public life are the same thing the defense so yeah that that doesn't pertain to your naked body. Well, I guess they would argue that if you're outside and you're this famous person that you've basically signed away your rights to any kind of privacy.

That's what I imagine is the argument. That's fucking bullshit. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. I'm sorry continue on i think when you thrust yourself into the limelight which i don't know being born into a royal family you're not really thrusting yourself it's not the same it's not quite the same but even even still even if like you choose the life yeah you should still have some reasonable expectation of privacy and certainly when it comes to like nudity and stuff i mean that's just crazy yes so here we go buckle up

folks because it gets grosser so one of the lawyers for closer was paul albert ewan's i w e i n s i don't know and his genius point was that those photos were flattering and that they were a matter of public interest here's what he said at the hearing it's of public interest to know that future heirs to the throne have a solid relationship and are getting on well. It's all part of the royal business. Uh, no. Yeah, so we as the public have the right to... Oh, that's so ridiculous. Yeah.

So, like I said, three photographers were named in the lawsuit. If that's their argument, where is the line? Like, had they decided to have sex while they were out there in view of these long range cameras? Oh, you know they would have taken those photos. I agree. Like, that's unacceptable. Oh, no, no, Brandy. But, you know, what if the photos were like flattering?

And, you know, they're a matter of public interest. Not their call to make no for some reason it makes me so much more mad this idea of like well it's a flattering shot who gives a shit yeah that's not your call no exactly so like i said oh are you okay i'm fine sorry continue three photographers were named in the lawsuit. Valerie Swao admitted to taking the topless photos of Kate, but told the court that she didn't intend to breach Kate's privacy, which, again, it's like, well, what would be a breach of privacy?

The other two photographers were like, we didn't do anything. But the attorneys for Kate and William were like, OK, but we've got cell phone data that shows you were near the Chateau while Kate and William were vacationing there. So an invasion of privacy. A judge ordered the magazine to pay the couple about 100,000 euros and ordered Closer's editor, Lawrence Pugh, and Closer's owner, Ernesto Mari, to both pay the maximum fine of 45,000 euros. In other words everybody including the photographers had to pay up good yeah of course like i said for a french court these were very high fines and closer's legal team was pissed they said that the fines were excessive for a privacy case so what do you think they did? They fucking appealed it. They sure did. They sure did. But they lost. Hey, goodness. So, you know, in the appeal,

the court upheld all the fines and they dismissed the editor's appeal. So the prosecution must have just been pissed that this came back to court because the prosecutor was like, OK, judge, not only do we think that everyone should have to pay their fines like it was decided before, but we actually think maybe we went a little too low on the photographers because the photographers only had to pay 5000 euros and another 5000 euros if they got caught doing this kind of thing again. So the prosecution was like, now that we're back here for appeal, why don't you make their punishments harsher? But that didn't happen. The court just upheld the previous judgment. I looked all over the place, hoping that Kate Middleton had made some kind of statement about this.

If she has, I didn't find it. But this was a big victory. It was something that, I mean, it's kind of unprecedented, and I'm happy they did it. And that's the story of the royal family fighting back against fucking paparazzi. I was not familiar with that at all. You know, I really wasn't either. And I was shocked that I don't know. You know, I know nothing about the French court system. I don't know if maybe they don't allow media in during the course of a trial because I couldn't find any kind of update articles, which makes me think that maybe they don't allow that. But, yeah, it's like this.

This story made a big splash in 2017 when the court verdict came out. It made a tiny little splash when the appeal came through. But I just I think it's fascinating. And I'm so glad that they fought back. Yeah. Yeah. I just think that, yeah, them thinking that like, oh, you're a royal, you're in the limelight, like you're in the public eye, it's public interest. Like you don't get to say that about someone's body.

No, no. There's some line somewhere. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think to me, it really does come down to. This is Kristen's rules. This is Kristen's rules. If it's reasonable for someone to think that they're alone, then you shouldn't be taking photos of them.

You know, if they're out and about and okay, you know, they're at a public event. Obviously, they expect to be photographed, you know, whatever. But they thought they were completely alone. Yeah. Bullshit. I'm over it. It's fine. Me too.

I've moved on with my life. In the last two minutes, I've moved on. Oh, gosh. Should we take some questions from the Discord? Yeah. Yeah. You want to read some questions? Yeah, I'll read some questions.

You tell them how to get in. Okay. To get in our Discord, all you have to do is head on over to patreon.com slash LGTCpodcast and join at the $5 level or $7 level. At the $5 level, you get into the Discord. You get bonus episodes. And in the Discord, you chat with us, which is pretty exciting. If you join at the $7, chat with us, which is pretty exciting. If you join at the seven, it can be sometimes not as much at the seven dollar level.

You get all of that. Plus you get a monthly bonus video and you get a card and a sticker. And it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. That's right. OK. Oh, and you get inducted. D people come on okay i oh i like this question bureche asks how did you break the news to friends and family about little miss london um oh my gosh okay so i'm gonna tell how I told you because you were like the first person other than David that I told. As it should be. Because I was there the whole time. Sorry, that's gross.

That's disgusting. I was there with my long lens camera. We recorded like the day after I took my pregnancy test and yeah, we were just like at your house i remember this so clearly i do too norm norm was like walking out of the room he was walking up the stairs and i was like yeah so i have some news and you're like what what's up but i was like i'm fucking pregnant

and norm froze as if someone had just like threatened his life norm gets so weird about people being pregnant it's's like, it's not contagious, man. It's fine. Yes. And then you and I hugged and cried. It was amazing. I still remember like, I was tying my shoes. So I was sitting down and I was just I was looking at my shoes. And then you said you were pregnant. And it like instant tears yes i mean it was so exciting so exciting so exciting yes oh no so exciting i've been thinking a lot about it no it's not much longer i know it's not it's not let's have her on the podcast all the time she'll be raised around these terrible stories and two cursing women what could go wrong yeah oh nicole b wants to know do y'all know why your

parents gave you your specific name were you almost named something different hmm uh i don't think that i was almost named anything else i think it was always going to be brandy and i'm named after the song brandy you're a fine girl what a good wife you would be but that's that's my jam um yeah my my story's not that exciting it's you know they they decided on mich, but then I think the story is that my dad, like some ladies started working with him at work and he didn't like her and her name was Michelle. So then he was like, I don't really like that name anymore. And so then it became Kristen.

Yeah. Great story. I know. Yeah. My grandma did not like that. Uh, they named me Brandy, my mom's mom, because if I wanted to become a senator, that would not be a respectable name. And I see that you are not a senator. And it's the reason that I am not a senator. Well, there you have it.

Oh, Melinda asks, if you could plan a fun vacation together, where would you go? Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. So many places. I know. We've talked about so many places. I want to go to New York City really bad because I've only ever been for work not for fun that's like one of my top of the list uh-huh things I also think that we'd all like the four of us would have a really good time going to Colorado we've talked about oh yeah because we both love Colorado so much I mean there are so many places I would love to go like I think it would be so cool to go to Europe together I mean oh my gosh then I can insult the French face to face by mispronouncing stuff. I'm sure they'll be real cool with that. Yes.

No, I you and I both love to travel. So, yeah. And we don't get to do it much. So it would be really, really cool. Basically, we'd go anywhere. I mean, we went to freaking Branson and we had a blast. So and we had a blast. Yeah. So if you've got an invite just send it our way oh you gotta ask this one from your cousin

hey jenny so jay shippard asks please help rob and i end the great debate so that's her husband is it remote or channel changer okay let's remote definitely remote yeah for sure remote some people call it the clicker too that drives well those people are nuts um vacuum or sweeper vacuum vacuum yeah vacuum for sure soda or pop soda uh yeah i say soda now i did not say soda when i was younger though did you say pop i don't know when i in the day i think i did say pop back in the day i don't know when i transitioned to soda but i definitely say soda now I was younger, though. Did you say pop back in the day? I think I did say pop back in the day. I don't know when I transitioned to soda, but I definitely say soda now. Yeah. I mean, these are all regional things. I'm okay with most things. The only thing I'm not okay with is when people say Coke as like the catch all for all soda. Yeah. That's kind of a Midwest thing. People are wrong. I hate to tell you.

Okay. Hey, Brandy. Here's a question I want you to answer. Blood Everywhere wants to know, what do you miss most about not being pregnant? Not wine. Don't be basic. I have an answer for that. What is it?

I actually was just talking to david about this tattoos oh you can't get tattooed while you're pregnant i obviously we couldn't get a tattoo right now anyway but yeah i want a tattoo so bad of like my face yes your face on my bicep and then when i flex it like your dimple will come that's beautiful and you know what i think you should just take the risk you know just get out there do it oh nippy pliers wants to know brandy what is the worst haircut you've ever seen okay so um there was years ago when I worked at my first salon, it was just like a walk-in chain salon. And this guy used to come in and he had what we coined, we coined a term exclusively for his haircut. We called it the bullet because it was somehow a combination of a bowl cut and a he wanted he wanted it long in the back but then he wanted straight across bangs cut above his

eyebrows like all the way to like the ears on the side oh my god okay the worst haircut was it harder though to cut when all those women were hanging around him yeah we had to fight the women out with a stick before we could even get to him to trim up his bullet okay now so wait you did this haircut on him uh yeah i mean i trimmed it up multiple times and you never he already he already had it when he came in well he was very clearly very attached to this haircut did you ever try to gently say anything to him no no i was i was a new stylist i was young i was dumb there was no way i thought that i could convince this man that it was not a good look for him. Okay, how would the Brandy of today handle that? Yeah, Brandy of today would make some suggestions about, hey, what if we blended this a little bit more?

What if we took up some of this length in the back, you know, updated your look a little bit? What if we made it an even bigger bowl? bowl depending on my mood today brandy if i felt comfortable with the client like would legit even just call them out and be like you know you're rocking a mullet right yeah see i think just so we're all on the same page here i think you could easily do that if it's like you know you've cut their hair a couple times they get to know your personality and you're like, here's the deal. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm I'm I'm shooting all these questions over to you. But people are asking some good stuff.

Amy Trauber asks, Brandy, have you ever given anyone a really bad haircut? Yes, I have. I gave my dad a terrible, terrible haircut when I was in cosmetology school. It was my first haircut that I tried to do, like not in school under the instruction of someone. I like went to his house and was like, yeah, I got this. It was a terrible haircut. Didn't blend at all. It was really, really bad. What happened? Like, what went wrong? I didn't know. I had no idea what I was doing. I was a brand new cosmetology student. And I was like, yeah, sure, I can handle this. I'd cut, like, one men's haircut on a mannequin. How did your dad react? I think that he was very embarrassed, but he didn't tell me that.

Yeah. Yeah, he walked around with that terrible haircut for a while while it grew out. See, in my defense, he had gotten the same, like he had gone to the same barber for years and years and years. And so he had, he had no idea how to tell me to cut his hair because he always just like sat down and got it cut by someone. Yeah. And so it was just just it was bad all

the way around i do cut my dad's hair now and do a fabulous job at it you know i would almost think that would be hard on another level like if someone has gotten the same haircut since the dawn of time then we all think they should look a certain way and so even just like even just a variation on the normal cut would draw attention but like sounds like sounds like it was a bad variation it oh it was a very it was a terrible variation nothing like that beautiful cut i gave to norman let's see should we do some more yeah you do a couple more okay okay oh here okay actually this i'm gonna take this one personally oh um because i am on i'm on lester's side here okay lester d 88 uh-huh lester has taken offense at something you tweeted the other day about a spaghettios

lawsuit and um what and you tweeted something about it being a crime just to consume spaghettios or whatever yes it should be something something very quippy um i i personally love spaghettios and lester does as well and so um what the brandy how old are you i have the palate of a five-year-old kristin spaghettios i ate sp ate spaghettiOs for lunch like two days ago. You didn't know you did. Yes. There was a three-week period during this pregnancy where I ate spaghettiOs for lunch every single day. That is disgusting. I enjoy spaghettiOs. It's like mushy old pasta in like watered down ketchup. So good. Well, I mean, you pretty much answered the question.

The question is, why do you hate SpaghettiOs? And do you enjoy being wrong on the topic? Hey, if hating SpaghettiOs is wrong, then I don't want to be right. Thank you for those questions, guys. Hold on. I could tell you something that will make you even more disgusted by my love of SpaghettiOs. What'd you do? It's how I like them.

Oh, my God. What? Room temperature. I don't warm them up. You just eat them straight from the can. Yeah, you just take them right out of the can and eat them. Oh, God. Brandy. It's delicious.

Brandy. Why? Why? Okay, we need to like. Whatever, come at me. Come at me, Ruffles and cottage cheese. Hey, that's only on special occasions. Okay, now we need to do some in-depth psychology on you, ma'am.

Because like your palate was stunted in like the first grade. Like what happened to you? Was there like a traumatic food event? Traumatic food event. No. So I do have one. So I actually can trace, you know, I don't like salty things. Yeah.

I trace this back to a moment where my mom force fed me. Is this one of those stories where she's going to come out in the discord and be like, that never happened? I bet she has no recollection of this. Okay. She made like, you know, like that chicken and broccoli and rice cheese casserole thing. So she made that and I didn't like it. And I was very young. Like I was probably four or five.

Okay. And I didn't like it. I remember telling her that I didn't like it. And so she's like, oh, I think it just needs some salt. And so she just kept adding salt to it and making me try it. And like she just add a little salt and make me try it. And I was like, no, I still don't like it and so she's like oh I think it just needs some salt and so she just kept adding salt to it and making me try it and make like she just add a little salt and make me try it and I was like no I still don't like it and so I trace back my my um my dislike of salty things to that moment let me tell you something you are all drama. Well, I hope your mother writes you a very sweetly worded apology letter after she hears that harrowing tale. I still don't like that casserole to this day.

And I like all of the things in it. I like cheese. I like chicken. I like rice. I like broccoli. Don't like it all together. Well, I mean, there are tons of things that I like, but you put them together. I like, you know, chicken and Oreos.

I'm not going to like mush them together. I think it makes perfect sense that you don't like the combination. I don't. So I also don't like potato salad. And with the exception of mayonnaise, I like all the stuff that's in it. It doesn't surprise me that you don't like potato salad. Yeah. No, thank you.

Get the fuck out of here is someone offering you potato salad right now yeah somebody is dangling a spoonful of potato salad right in front of my face currently i'm having to fight them off it's amazing to me that someone would risk their life in this in these trying times just to force feed you one tablespoon of potato salad that's right now i'm so you know what oh what do you want spaghetti no never never you know what would be interesting it would be interesting like if you set me in a room with no food just water like and some how long it would take you to eat the spaghetti is? I think it'd be. When you'd finally cave?

I think it'd be a good long while. What about, what about like Chef Boyardee? Did you like like beefaroni or ravioli? You like any of those? Brandy. I'm a grown woman. Did you like them as a child? I don't even think I really liked them as a child.

I think even as a child, I was like, I'm too good for this. Give me a nachos Lunchable. No, no, you know what I was like, okay, last week, you start talking about how you've been craving cheese dip. Yeah, how dare you, ma'am? Because, oh my gosh, all day Wednesday, all I wanted was cheese dip after you mentioned it and of course like cheese dip just cannot be had right now yeah and so then then you know we we listened to these episodes again once they've been edited and then I got a craving all over again when you mentioned cheese dip again so anyway did you get cheese dip or no? We did. We went and got on Saturday. Yeah, Saturday we did Jose Pepper's carryout.

And it was good. See, I... It was real good. Okay. It's real hit or miss these days with the carryout because, you know, they're not working with the full strip. I guess that maybe it wasn't that great, but it had been so long since I had it that it tasted amazing.

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. You got to keep in consideration the yardstick that you're using to measure. That's true. Yeah. It's just hard these days because I feel like, you know, they're working with a skeleton crew.

Everybody's scared. We're really suffering here. Yeah. What was that? With our. What was that? Getting cheese dip. What was that other our, what was that getting cheese dip? What was that other thing

you said before we started recording? Stop it. Don't say I said something terrible again. What was that thing you said about Hitler before we started recording?

I can't remember. You made a lot of really good points, Brandy. You had kind of a manifesto if I remember it right. You made a lot of really good points, Brandy. You had kind of a manifesto, if I remember it right. Oh, God. No, just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding.

Okay, Brandy, let's do some Supreme Court inductions. Do you have the document up and ready? I do. I have it up. I have it ready. I'm on the current episode. Oh, my God. Look at you. Woo. Yeah, episode up. I have it ready. I'm on the current episode. Oh my God. Look at you.

Woo. Yeah. Episode 119 got my shit together. You guys. You want, you want to do names? Uh, no. Look, these are super easy names. Okay. Says you. Well, actually, yeah, they do look pretty easy. They are. They look very easy. Okay, guys, we are.

And even this nice Tracy told you how to pronounce it okay sometimes when people tell me how to pronounce names that are really obvious i take that out but i love that that tracy told me it was trey c thank you so this week we are keeping with our... I don't... Man, the words, they fell out of my head. We're doing favorite movies. We will be reading names and favorite movies.

Thank you. That was very tough. Are you ready? Yes. Nick Mastin. Cruel Intentions. Ronnie Webster. Mean Girls.

Amanda Ryan. American Webster. Mean Girls. Amanda Ryan. American Graffiti. Emily. From Dusk Till Dawn. Try C. The Birds. Sorry about that, Tracy. Sarah.

Sense and Sensibility. Jess Hunter. Sister Act 2, Back in the Habit. Emily Eamon. Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. Misty Dawn. Shawshank Redemption. Sandy Kempton.

Dreamer. Tammy Urish. The Princess Bride. Kim Pleasance. I Don't Like Movies. Christian Anne. Pride and Prejudice prejudice the kira knightley version stacy mengel hunt for red october welcome to the supreme court thank you for real guys for all of your support and for continuing to support us during whatever the day and age that we're living in when will this time ever when will it end never just never say that

someday maybe it'd be great if we did like legit now if there was going to be like an end to this at some point make this a lot easier oh god great i just want to see you kristin i just want to hang out i know i do too i want normalcy again me too okay well wow we've really ended this on a way to bring that down guys thank you for real thank you for supporting us um hey if you've got some free time laying around. I don't know why you would. Find us on social media. Find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon.

Be sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and head on over to. Wow. Head on over. Head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. And be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new

topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we

owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from Vogue, the BBC, Time Magazine, Newsweek, The Guardian, and The Independent. And I got my info from TheUnredacted.com, an article for Mental Floss by Deanna Chopa. Sorry, I just stumbled. The Liverpool Echo and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgbtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it.

Go read their stuff.