Let's Go To Court! - 121: Family Annihilator Neil Entwistle & a Tumor

Episode Date: May 13, 2020

Rachel Entwistle’s friends knew something was up. They’d had plans to get together, but Rachel wasn’t answering the door. She wasn’t answering her phone, either. Plus, earlier that day, she’d blown off lunch plans with her mom. That didn’t seem like Rachel. Her friends convinced police to enter the Entwistle’s new home, but they didn’t find anything suspicious. It was a little weird that there was food on the table and the bathtub was full, but there were no signs of foul play. Surely Rachel, her husband Neil and their infant daughter Lillian would show up any minute.  Then Kristin tells us… absolutely nothing! This week, Kristin had some medical issues (not COVID-19), so she didn’t have time to prepare a case. Instead, she shares PSA’s from her personal experience: 1. Listen to your body; 2. Get good health insurance. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: Her own shitty experience! In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Neil Entwistle: Sex, lies, and how a family man from Worksop murdered his wife and baby” by David Whitfield, The Nottingham Post “CRIME FILES: Former York student Neil Entwistle murdered wife and baby daughter” by Mike Pryce, York Press “Neil Entwistle” murderpedia.org “Murders of Rachel and Lillian Entwistle” wikipedia.org

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about nothing.

And I'll be talking about my old standby, a family annihilator. Oh, so reliable. So predictable. Did you see the thing that I shared in the Discord the other day? What? About this case. So when I was researching this, I was reading this article that had like a list of cases that were similar to it and like a list of related cases i had covered every single one of them already um okay i did

see that i did see that and you took that as a real point of pride i mean it just goes to show i definitely have a type of case that i enjoy covering just try to talk family annihilators with this lady she's insufferable she knows them all brandy how you doing this week i am doing good how are you how are you doing how dare you how dare you you know how i'm doing i do know how you're doing yeah yeah things have been real real bad yeah yeah yeah so i don't know i don't know how much there is to say or you know oh god or if now is the time to even say it, but your girl, your girl's not doing well medically and I don't have coronavirus. So, you know, yes. Yeah. Medical problems, not coronavirus. Yeah. Everyone else is into just what's popular right now.

Everyone's getting sick with like the cool thing. but i got something no one's even heard of okay no should we should we talk about it now or what do you think that's up to you you want me to do my case and then you want to talk about it well okay let me just let me just say a little more oh god i just farted i could I could hear it. Well, I'm still a lady. And hey, you know what? You can't make fun of me because I've got a tumor. That's right. So that's the fun news this week, guys.

Last Wednesday, we recorded. I mean, it was so much fun. You know, that was our Pizzagate episode, our Seton Hall. I i mean i shouldn't say our fun seat in hall dorm fire that was not fun but like the recording was really fun felt great woke up the next day felt great again and then all of a sudden 11 30 hits and i was like a woman in a movie who's like laying on the bathroom floor and you know vomiting constantly can't even get up to go back to bed and then have the decency to like run back to the bathroom to vomit that's that's where i was yeah um so anyway it's a whole long story we'll save it till after you're done but the bottom line is I've been checked out and by many men and one lady with a transvaginal ultrasound wand thing. And most people don't get to experience those until they're pregnant, Kristen.

So, oh, I felt very special. Believe me. I felt like a real lucky lady. No, so they think I have a dermoid ovarian cyst, which is like, it's disgusting if you Google it. It's like a tumor thing that has potentially hair and teeth in it. Yeah. So I think that means that you had a twin in the womb that you absorbed into your body. I've seen my big fat Greek wedding.

I know how this works. So clearly I'm the superior being and now this bitch is trying to get back at me. So bottom line is, assuming this is what everyone thinks it is, it's 98% chance not cancer. So that's, you know. Fabulous news. I was about to say it's pretty awesome. I don't know. Nothing feels awesome right now.

No, I'm sure nothing feels awesome right now. So, you know it's one of those things it's painful I feel like I could vom any minute for the first time in my life I don't have much of an appetite so that's really weird yeah you're such a you like are a you have to eat on a schedule you get so hungry so that's super that's normal okay you have to eat every you have to eat every two hours, Kristen. Okay, well, yeah, Norman calls me the rabbit because I am kind of constantly munching on something. Not anymore.

And you know what? Okay. I know there is a sick part of him that is kind of enjoying this because the other day he got a pizza. And, you know, I'm I'm not like I hadn't eaten all day so I was like okay I'm gonna have some of that and you know I could have like one piece and I was just done so you know he kind of looks over at me he's like well you know do you want more and I was like no I honestly it's all yours I can't. It doesn't even sound good. And he had just the tiniest smile as he shuffled off to the kitchen while his wife sat there with a tumor. Anyway, so surgery is supposed to be no big deal, quick.

And yeah, yeah. More on this intriguing story later but uh that's my life the deal is is that like you have been very sick so this is not going to be a typical episode today i will be doing a case and and you will be enjoying it with me here's here's what i will say though because like this is this is a true thing where I love doing the podcast. It's honestly fun. And so it wasn't like, oh, OK, well, I've got this, you know, shit ball of a medical thing. At least I don't have to work. No, I actually wanted to do a case. And I sat down and I was going to do one.

I actually wanted to do a case and I sat down and I was going to do one. I read this article that I'm going to save it because it really is so funny and weird. It's such a crazy thing. But the thing is, they've got me on some serious painkillers and I'm so dumb on these things, like so fucking dumb. So I sat at my computer read the article was like that was wonderful then i pulled up a blank document and stared at it for i'm gonna say 45 minutes and finally i was just like well you know this thing's never getting written so here we are all right all right should i jump right in in addition to Best Fiends, we should also plug our Patreon. Yeah. What are you doing?

Well, you know, I've got a number of issues. I even inserted a little thing about the Discord earlier, and I thought you would, you know, jump right on that. You're expecting me to pick up that ball and run with it? I mean, you usually do. Listen, I've been known to fumble many a ball, okay? Here's the deal, guys. If you just can't get enough of us, join us on Patreon. At the $5 level, you get to listen to bonus episodes, you get in the Discord to chat with us. At the $7 level, You get all that plus a monthly bonus video and you get a sticker.

You get a card with our autographs. You get inducted onto this very podcast. It's a world of fun. Is it a whole world, Kristen? A whole world of fun. It really is a good time, guys. You should seriously consider it. Okay.

Hey, you know what? I'm telling people it's a fucking world of fun and you're telling them it's really a good time can we get on the same page can we get on the same page it's the best time you'll ever have in your lives you guys i can't say that now because i already just said that about best fiends okay okay if you guys are looking to have the best day of your life, join our Patreon and play Best Fiends. Who cares about your wedding day, the birth of your child, any of that stuff? I think everyone remembers the first day they signed up

for the LGTC Patreon. Clearly. No, Brandi, tell us your horrible tale. All right. Oh, you just assume it's going to be horrible, eh? Which is one of those lighthearted family annihilators. Oh, yeah, I'm sure it is. Hang on, I'm unzipping my jacket here.

Oh, gosh, I thought you were going to say pants, and I got really nervous. Well, I mean. I thought we were going to have a wiener situation. Trust me, I think that guy's dick pics. It's the weirdest thing to me. I keep thinking about his dick pics. You can't stop thinking about Anthony Wiener's dong. Is that what you're saying?

I guess that's what I'm saying. I just it's funny to me because when I think of a dick pic, I never think of anyone keeping their underwear on for the dick pic. Definitely not. It kind of seems like a kind of a Victorian version of a dick pic. Like a real buttoned up version of a dick pic. It'd be like the equivalent of if you took a dick pic and your dick pic had like a top hat and a bow tie. Well, doesn't it make you think somehow in his mind he convinced himself

oh it's not that bad if i keep my undies on yeah right yes all right uh contrary to what you believe kristen this is not a light-hearted family and i later this is a terrible story what a disappointment i'm usually so good at reading context clues shout out to david whitfield for the nottingham post which sounds like the most british paper i've ever heard of yeah it almost sounds made up right he has an amazing article on this case it's like all that i needed um i pulled a little bit more from Wikipedia and Murderpedia, but essentially it comes mostly from this article. Sorry, that sounded terrible. Just finished off a couple cigarettes there. Sorry, I'm good now.

Okay. January 21st, 2006. We're in Hopkinton massachusetts ever heard of it no it's like 30 miles west of boston smallish town about 14 000 people oh wow okay it was around seven o'clock in the evening when joanna gately and her sister maureen pulled into the driveway of six cubs path hopkinton massachusetts oh my god what the hell you know i'm slugging gatorade like it's my job and that's literally what i was doing and i could not be bothered okay say it one more time six cubs path two different words cubs like multiple baby bears path yeah hopkinton massachusetts this is how you know it's bad it popped up no problem okay okay so there's a there is a listing for it on redfin yeah it's a beautiful house yeah oh my there's 30 pictures please pause you need to update that kitchen.

I'll tell you that. It did sell last in 2015. So here's the thing about a kitchen desk. They're totally outdated. We don't need kitchen desks anymore. You definitely don't need a kitchen desk anymore. And who is ever using their kitchen desk as a desk? I think.

OK, here's the thing. Way back in the day. And I don't mean way back in the day, but like when you had the landline. When you had like the landline and like a family computer. Yeah, yeah. Maybe you'd go there and then, you know, I don't know how you watched porn from that thing, but that's none of my business. So, yeah, lovely house. So these two women, Joanna and her sister Maureen, were there to have dinner with Joanna's friend Rachel and her husband, Neilwistle. They were a few minutes late so they like hurried to the door and rang the bell

and they could hear the Entwistle's dog barking inside and they could see a couple lights on but after ringing the doorbell a couple of times no one had come to the door. This they thought was really odd because they were expected for dinner. They were supposed to be there at seven. It was already like 715. They'd even called on their way. They'd called Rachel's cell to let them know that they were running a few minutes late and she hadn't answered. So this was all a little bit odd. And so they decided to kind of walk around the house and try and see if they could like knock on a back door or look in a window. But no luck. All of the blinds were closed tightly. They couldn't see in at all. They could tell no more than that a couple of lights were on inside. So they went back to their car and they called Rachel's cell,

they called Neil's cell, but they weren't able to get a hold of them. After several more unsuccessful attempts and more unanswered rings of the door, Joanna called Rachel's mother, Priscilla, Matarazzo. So when they called her, they learned that Patricia or I'm sorry, that Priscilla. I'm just renaming her now. I'm pulling a Kristen. That's my move, Brandy. They learned that Priscilla had actually been at the house that day to have lunch with Rachel and her infant daughter, Lillian. Lillian was like nine months old and no one had been there. And again, Rachel had been

expecting her. And so she thought this was super odd. And so she had been trying to call Rachel all day and had been unsuccessful at reaching her. So now, of course, they're all concerned. And Priscilla's like, yeah, OK, I think it's time to call the police. Absolutely. So it was around 830 when Priscilla called the Hopkinton authorities. She explained that her daughter, along with her husband and their nine month old daughter, had moved into this home and into Hopkinton like 10 days ago they were very new to the area for the previous six months they'd been living with Priscilla and her husband like just in another neighboring town right but she said that now she'd gone a couple days without speaking to Rachel which was you know not the

norm they talked several times a day usually and then she you know explained how she'd gone over earlier to have lunch and no one had been there. And then now how there were friends over for dinner and no one was there. And so the police were like, yeah, you know, I think that definitely warrants us sending someone out. You know, we'll send an officer out, see what they can find, and we'll give you a call back. So a short time later, two officers arrived at the Entwistle home and they found Joanna and Maureen in the driveway. And they spoke to them and said, you know, OK, so you you guys are supposed to be here at seven, blah, blah, blah, they filled them in on the whole thing. And they were like, All right, well, we'll, we'll walk around the house, see what we can find. And same thing, they walked around, they didn't see any easy way to get into

the house or anything. All the doors were locked, all the windows were locked. And so at this point, they decided to go ahead and make entry into the home. My goodness. My goodness. So I believe that they picked the lock on the front door. That's how I read it in one article, which seems like a weird thing for police to do. But, you know, I just assume they just like kick it down like badasses. No, no. Brandi, can you imagine if every time something fishy happened, they knocked the door?

Do you know how expensive a door is especially front door yes yes you better i mean it's got to be part of police training to have like a couple bobby pins in your pocket to just you know yeah yeah so they just they end up picking the lock and going into the home but a cursory search of the home revealed really nothing other than the fact that it looked like the Entwistles had left in a hurry. There was food out in the kitchen. There was like classical music playing from an upstairs bedroom, which turned out to be the baby's bedroom. They like went up there.

There was a bathtub that was still full of water with like baby toys floating in it. But there was nothing out of place. In the master bedroom, the bed was unmade and the bedding was kind of like piled up in the middle but that was it like the rest of the house looked pretty put together so the officers left the house they locked it up and they reported their findings to the sisters who were still sitting in the driveway and to rachel's mom priscilla and then they went on their way they, you know, don't know what to tell you. There's no sign of a struggle here.

No sign of any kind of foul play. So I'd say keep trying to get a hold of them. Joanna and Maureen were so distraught by this point about this whole incident that they decided they were going to spend the night in their car in the driveway of the Entwistle's home. Remember, it's January in essentially Boston. And so it was freezing. They had to leave multiple times to go to a gas station up the street to use the bathroom and like just warm up.

And when morning came, there was still no sign of Neil or Rachel or Lillian. At this point. Sorry. Go ahead. For whatever reason, it's like the food out in the kitchen and the bathtub full of water. Uh-huh. No one leaves their house with a bathtub full of water. Yeah.

That to me is like just such a clear sign that something is super off. Yeah. And the fact that they have a kitchen desk. Although what year was this? It's 2006. Yeah. I mean, OK, kitchen desk is fine. All right.

I'll allow it. I'll allow the kitchen desk. Continue. So it's now the next morning. They've spent the whole night there nothing's changed they start talking to neighbors to see if anybody has met the ant whistles yet as i mentioned they've only lived there for like 10 days yeah and it seemed that some of the neighbors had seen them coming and going but nobody had actually met them yet but one of the neighbors had the old owner's

garage key or like garage door like code you know like a keypad thing yeah yeah so they were like they might not have changed it if you want to try it and so they did they got the code from the neighbors and they went and it was and it opened to the garage and so joanna and maureen let themselves into the house through the garage and gave it another look over and they didn't see anything different than what the police had seen the previous night. So at this point, they sat down in the living room and like turned on the TV and called Rachel's mother again, and waited for them to come over. Priscilla and her husband Joe were like, that's it, we're coming over, we'll all sit down and we'll figure out

what our next steps are. And so a short time later, they arrived at the house. And at that point, the four decided, like, it's time to call the police and make, like, an official missing persons report. When Priscilla called the police back this time, she was like, you know, you guys came out yesterday. You did the search. You know, I'm not really sure what the next steps are here. And they gave, like, a little bit of pushback. Like, well, you know, these are adults, you know. And she was like, no, this is extremely out of character and they're like okay well if you really think it's

necessary then we can go ahead and and make an official missing persons report and so she's like yep that's what i want to do and so that evening they did that they filed the official you know missing persons report and following that official filing the police returned to the entwistle home this time to do a more thorough search. So now that somebody is officially missing, they can, you know, search at a different level than they initially had. And so the same officers who had searched the first time came back to the house to do a second search to see if they noticed anything different. And at this point, obviously, we know that Rachel's parents have been in there, the friends have been in there, And none of them noticed anything different.

But to the trained senses of these police officers, there was something very different about the home. It was a smell. What the? The officers would describe the smell as being something similar to that of like a bag of dirty diapers. So they followed their noses through the house to the source of the odor it was the strongest in the master bedroom so they did something they hadn't done on their initial search they pulled back that bedding that was piled up in the middle of the bed and beneath it they found the bodies of rachel and lillian and Whistle. Oh, no. At first glance, it seemed like the two had

possibly died of natural causes. They immediately thought carbon monoxide poisoning, like they were just laying there looking pretty peaceful. And so they thought there was a chance that it was like carbon monoxide poisoning. They discussed possibly calling out the fire department to get a test and whatever. But as they called out, you know you know more is there something in the background on you no huh i keep hearing like a clap or something huh huh there's nothing here i'm literally the only person in this house so well there's a ghost clapping he's just cheering you on don't be worried don't be nervous at all i just like had to like look over my shoulder christy just get this i know i know i'm sorry i knew if i said it was a ghost and he's got a family annihilating ghost you're fine oh good good i'm glad to hear it

so the initial thought is like we don't know how they died. They look, you know, there's no outward signs of trauma here. Right. And so, you know, as more investigators and emergency crews and whatever get to the scene, they move the bodies. And that's when they discover that the back of Lillian, the nine-month-old baby, was covered in blood. And on closer examination, there was a tiny bullet hole in her torso

with an exit wound through her back. Oh, my God. An autopsy would reveal that Rachel had likely been holding Lillian when she was shot with a.22 caliber pistol because the bullet had exited Lillian's tiny body and entered Rachel's. This wasn't what had killed Rachel, though. Rachel had died from a separate shot from the same gun.

That shot was to her head. So the bullet hole was so small that it was like completely missed on their initial examination of the bodies. It was like right along her hairline. And so it wasn't until like the thorough autopsy was done that they even located the bullet hole. So this is so strange to me because I think of a bullet like I think of a big old hole. So I asked David about this because David has experience with guns. He was like in ROTC in high school and whatever. And so the way he explained it to me is that a 22 caliber is the

smallest bullet that is made it's like the size of a bb essentially and so yeah he said it could very well look like as a hole through clothing like a little burn hole or something like that that's how small it would be but wait so okay to the phrase, why wasn't there blood everywhere? Is it because of the bullet hole size? Because they were so small. Yes. Yeah, because they were so small. Lillian did lose a lot of blood, but it all came out her back. And so from the front of her, it wasn't visible at all. And then Rachel had not lost much blood at all. The bullet had entered her brain and killed her that way. Wow. Wow. Oh, my God. had not lost much blood at all the bullet had entered her brain and killed her that way wow wow oh my god what the autopsy also revealed was that both of the wounds both to lillian and rachel they were both contact wounds so the muzzle of the gun had been pressed directly to their skin

when the shots were fired yeah but neil Entwistle was nowhere to be found. At this point, they didn't really know if he was a third victim in this, if he was a suspect. Was he dead? Was he alive? Had he been taken by whoever had done this? They didn't know. And as I mentioned before, nothing was missing from the house. But something was missing from the garage.

The Entwistle's white BMW SUV was not in there. And so police were like, great, that's where we'll begin the search. They put out a search for that specific vehicle. But again, they don't know. Are we looking for Neil, too? Are we? And so they did a more thorough search of the house to see if his body was elsewhere. They searched the yard around the house like they have no idea at this point. Well, yeah, they had to feel kind of dumb knowing that they'd missed two bodies. Yeah.

I mean, I mean, yeah, but everybody had missed it. Nobody had thought to check under these covers like that's how that's how like normal this crime scene looked. Yeah. Yeah. That even when the family walked through the house, no one was like, hey, what's up with that? The bed looks weird. Yeah.

Yeah. It didn't take long for them to track down the Entwistle's car. They found it in the parking garage at Boston's Logan International Airport. And the keys were locked inside. So then that led them to do a search of Neil Entwistle's credit card and banking activity. And it showed that on the evening of January 20th, he had used two ATMs at the airport to withdraw $800. And he'd made three more attempts totaling an additional $420. But those were declined. Then around 5am, he used a credit card to purchase a one-way ticket on a British Airlines flight to London Heathrow, which departed at 8.15 a.m. on January 21st and arrived in London just after 7 p.m.

Neil had gone home. Oh. So Neil Entwistle was born in Worksop, England, which is like a mining town, apparently not not too far from London, like 200 miles outside of London, which isn't super close, obviously. But yeah, you know, so he had actually gone to the University of York to study engineering and business management. And that's where he had met Rachel. Rachel had been there on like a foreign exchange student type program. And they had met through rowing club. And so they had they had met there, they had lived there for a while. Actually, Lillian was born in England. And it wasn't until

after Lillian was born that they decided to move back to the United States, or for Rachel to move back to the United States and Neil to come with her so that she could be closer to her mother. So at the time that all this happened, they had been living back in the United States for a little over six months. So at this point, they're like, okay, he's gone home. But you know, how do we how do we know where he went? And they were right. They they were able to again, follow his his banking activity. And he was in fact back in England. But when he arrived there, he didn't return to his parents home immediately he rented a car and then made like this huge circle like 800 mile circle around the country

before he arrived at his parents house he had again tried to withdraw a large amount of money at atms and got in a hotel room and he hadn't arrived back in workshop where his parents lived until like 36 hours after his plane had landed in London so what do you make of that at this point what I'm sorry what what do you make of that do you think he was just trying to figure out what to do yeah I do okay I do think that's exactly what he was doing okay so at this point they track him down they know he's with his parents or they assume he's staying with his parents. I don't actually have confirmation of that. And so on Monday, January 23rd.

So this is like the day after the bodies have been discovered. A Massachusetts state trooper named Bob Manning calls the Entwistle home in England and speaks to Neal's dad, Cliff. And he's like, hi, you know, this is Bob Manning. I'm with the Massachusetts State Police. I'm trying to reach Mr. Entwistle. And Cliff, who answers the phone, he's like, Yeah, you know, that's, that's me. And he's like, Okay, you know, we've got some bad news. Something bad has happened over here in the United States. And he's like, and at this point, Cliff kind of stops him. He's like, Oh, hold on. You know, I just just for, you know, full disclosure here. I'm I'm the father.

And he's like, yeah, yeah, I know. I know who you are. He's like, do you are you in contact with your son? And he's like, yeah, he's here. And he's like, OK, great. Can I speak to you? Oh, my God. And then he puts him on the phone.

Oh, the officer had to be shitting his pants. Yes. He puts him on the phone. Oh, the officer had to be shitting his pants. Yes. And so Neil Entwistle gets on the phone and this officer is like, yeah. Hey, Neil. How's it going? And he goes on to try and like make give him the death notice. Like, I'm sorry to tell you that we've discovered that your wife and daughter are dead. And it's very clear that Neil already knows this.

He's like, oh, yeah. Oh, he didn't even try to pretend? No. And so the officer's like, okay, so you already knew that, huh? And he's like, yeah, unfortunately, yeah, I did know that. And he's like, okay, you want to tell me how you knew that? And so at this point, Neil's like, yeah, if you if you give me just a second, you know, I'll I'll tell you. I'll tell you everything.

And he's like, sure, no problem. So this leads into a two hour phone call. sure no problem so this leads into a two-hour phone call and this officer lets neil know that the entire thing is being recorded and neil tells him everything that happened his version of everything that happened obviously so this is what he says he says that that friday morning he got up at like seven just like he did. He fed Lillian breakfast and whatever. And then around nine o'clock, he decided that he was going to go run some errands. He needed to go to Staples to get some computer supplies. He did some like online computer sales business, blah, blah, blah, blah.

More on that later. Anyway, so he said he left the house around nine that morning and he was gone for a couple of hours. When he came back around 11, he was really surprised because all of the stuff from Lillian's breakfast was still out all over the place. Like there was Cheerios on the floor, like the food was still on the tray of her high chair or whatever. her high chair or whatever. But he just assumed that, you know, Rachel had gotten her and given her a bath and whatever and just hadn't gotten around to cleaning it up yet, which seemed out of character. And he was actually a little bit he said he was a little bit annoyed about at first. He called out when he got home, you know, hey, I'm home, whatever. And then he went about starting to clean that up. And like a few minutes went by before he realized that he hadn't heard any noise

in the house. No one had ever called back to him when he said he was back before he realized that he hadn't heard any noise in the house. No one had ever called back to him when he said he was back. You know, he didn't hear anybody walking around upstairs. And so he was like, well, maybe maybe Rachel put Lillian down for a nap and maybe she's in the shower. And then so a little bit more time goes by and he realizes that there's no water running in the house either. And so at this point, he decided to walk back upstairs to find out what was going on why he couldn't hear his family and that's when he discovered their bodies laying on the bed in the master bedroom okay and it was clear to him immediately that they were both dead he hadn't even touched their bodies to to check he'd simply covered them up with the blanket and then contemplated what his next move should be and so the this poor state trooper is just

trying to like obviously keep this guy talking sure it's as much information and so it's like bring on the bullshit right right right of course i completely understand what you're saying so so tell me you were the state of them laying on that bed you were just sure that they were you were sure they were dead huh and he's like yeah well there was just a lot of blood which we know yeah there was not and so yeah he goes on about that and so he talks about how distraught he was when he found the bodies that he his immediate thought was that he needed to just go kill himself because his his wife and daughter were dead oh wait no no no he discovered i'm sorry he just discovered their bodies kristin right right after he covered them up and the officer at one point was like okay so

tell me about covering them up what what was the point of that and he's like i i you know i don't i can't even tell you why i did it it just felt like the right thing to do so after covering the bodies he's so distraught that he goes back down to the kitchen and he grabs a knife out of their knife block and he's going to kill himself with it okay but the thought of how painful that was going to be kept him from doing it. He just couldn't go through with it. Okay. And so, never thought I should call the police. Never thought who did this.

Okay, so you're thinking exactly like this police officer that's on the phone with him. He's like, okay. He's like, all right, I'm just going to stop you just for a second. He's like, I's like all right neil let me i'm just gonna stop you just for a second he's like i know i know you're from england and you know you haven't you haven't been in the united states that long what what since the summer right and neil's like yeah you know about six months or whatever and he's like okay now are you familiar with the 9-1-1 system we have in this country and neil's like yeah yeah i'm familiar and he's like uh-huh so at no point did it did the idea

cross your mind that you should use it and maybe call call the police and he said no no you know it didn't i don't know why that didn't occur to me the police officer's like, nope. OK. All right, buddy. You know. And so I listened to a big excerpt of this call. And I think the officer did a really good job of keeping Neil talking and making him feel like he believed him just enough that he would give more information. And so he's like, OK, so you're telling me that you found your wife and daughter dead and it was your immediate response that you should then kill yourself. And he's like, yeah, you know, I just I just lost my whole world. And he's like, all right. OK.

It seems like an odd response to me. And so he's like, so who do you think what do you think happened? And he's like, well, I think they were shot. And he's like, really? You think they were shot? What gives you that idea? And he's like, well, you know, there was what looked like a burn mark or a hole in Lillian's pajamas. So I just assumed that they must have been shot.

And the officer's like okay uh-huh right right and what about so interesting that his response was I think they were shot because I think surely in like nine times out of ten someone asks that question and it's going to be about who did it it's going to be like I think someone broke in and da da da or she has an ex-boyfriend who blah blah blah you know they would be focused on who did what not well i think they were shot yeah and so that's the next question that the officer asked like how do you think this happened who do you think would have done this and so neil's like you know i just don't know you know we've only lived in the house

like 10 days. We don't have any kind of set work routines because I work out of the house. It's not like anybody would have known that I would have been gone. And so the officer's like, OK, when you came back to the house, was the house open? Was it unlocked? And he's like, well, I mean, the front door for sure was locked and the back door for sure was locked. But I left the garage door open and i think the door from the garage to the house was unlocked so someone could have just walked in the garage walked in the house through that door and and done this and he's like oh okay it seemed odd to you that someone would have just happened upon a house and and you just wouldn't have been there and he's

like yeah i don't know how anybody how anybody could have known that like i you just wouldn't have been there. And he's like, yeah, I don't know how anybody, how anybody could have known that. Like I said, we don't have a, we don't have a set routine. We hadn't lived there long enough for anybody to, you know, figure out what a routine would have been. Yeah. And so he's like, okay, all right. All right. So take me back. You've decided that you're going to kill yourself. You grab the knife, you know, what happens then? And he's like, I couldn't do it. And so at that point, I decided that I just needed to be with someone. And so I got in the car and I drove to Rachel's parents house to Priscilla and Joe's house. And on my way there, it occurred to me that they wouldn't be home. I knew that they weren't going to be there. And so this obviously is like a problem with his story. Like, okay, you're going there to tell them that Rachel and Lillian are dead.

But you are just now you're now telling me that you also know that they're not there. And so at this point, he starts kind of like backpedaling a little bit. And he's like, well, and, you know, I know that Joe keeps guns in the house. So if I couldn't do it with a knife, I thought maybe I'd be able to do it with a gun. And so I was going to go there and I was going to get one of Joe's guns and I was going to take care of myself. And so the officer's like, OK. And he's like, yeah. And there had been because we had lived with them for so long.

We had a copy of their house keys on our car keys. And so I drove to Rachel's parents house and I got there. And wouldn't you know it when I got there, the house key wasn't the keys anymore so I couldn't even go in I couldn't I couldn't do anything uh-huh which side note the key was still on well obviously he just missed it he was so traumatized give this man the benefit of the doubt come on so so at this point he drives around for a while and then decides you know what i guess i'll go be with my parents that's when he drove to the airport and got and took the quickest route possible to his parents house after he arrived exactly right

so he made a couple of weird statements during this like about you know all this stuff about how like you know he covered them up why he didn't call 9-1-1 whatever and then additionally he said you know that he hadn't even cried since it happened and he was like don't you think that's odd the officer was like yeah probably yeah it is a little odd a little strange buddy a little strange so this is a big creepy murder yeah as i mentioned this conversation lasted for a couple of hours and this officer did a great job of letting neil believe that he believed everything he said he didn't find it that odd you know whatever but of course everything he said is a huge red flag. No. No, Brandy.

Boo. And so this launches a big investigation into Neil Entwistle to find out, you know, what's this guy been doing? Like, what's this guy's background? What do we know about his work? What do we know about his computer habits? Whatever. around what do we know about his work what do we know about his computer habits whatever and so over the next couple days they do a very deep dive into neil and then they have a couple more conversations with him on the phone and he during this time also calls rachel's parents multiple times and has multiple conversations with them were they them? I don't believe that the calls with her parents were recorded. Okay. No. So here's what the deep dive into Neil discovered. So Neil was supposedly

this computer genius. Like that's what he'd gone to college for. He was the first person in his family to go to college, which is an amazing accomplishment. And he'd gone for like computer engineering and all this stuff. And he was doing what everybody believed was like some kind of online sales for computers and online tech support and something like that turns out dude hadn't had a job in forever and was supporting the family completely on credit cards he was also running some scammy ebay business and like involved in a bunch of like online get rich quick schemes like those weird like spammy work from home things oh oh my gosh was he one of those guys who was like you can earn 25 an hour working from home yes oh my yes

so he had seven different ebay accounts set up and there were complaints against all of them and they'd all been flagged by ebay and he was like literally like moments away from court action being taken against him by ebay for fraud okay additionally dude was obsessed with escorts he had a mile-long search history of every escort service in the surrounding area and a profile on adultfriendfinder.com. Great. Yes. What a douche. Like literally hours before the murders, he had been trying to arrange a meeting with an escort in the Boston area. Yeah.

Super douche. So at this point, they're like, OK, this does not look great. That was kind of just like the tip top of his lies. They found out that the house, which he told everybody they'd purchased, was actually leased and it was only leased for three months. The car that he had bought, like as some big gesture for Rachel, the BMW, was again leased, not purchased. And literally every card, every credit card they had to their name was maxed out. They had completely maxed them all out furnishing this new house this guy is so he reminds me a lot of john list because john list yes same way of like everything looks nice from the outside we look like we're on the up and up

and we're you know doing really well and yeah not so much yep but even still at this point when they're finding all of this about him they are still declining to call him a suspect they're only labeling him a person of interest i'm guessing that was a strategic move yes exactly yeah yes exactly so on january 26 so what's that like five days after the bodies were found? Authorities from the US flew to England to sit down with him and question him. And he agreed to come to the US Embassy. He met them at the US Embassy in London to speak to the detectives. But he brought a lawyer with him and the lawyer advised him not to answer anything. And so he came to the meeting, said, I'm sorry, I'm not going to answer any of your questions and then left so he's like living his fucking life

over there in england like he's meeting up with friends that he hasn't seen in a while he's going out to the pub he went to the movies meanwhile back in the united states a funeral was held for right and why rachel and lillian yeah yeah he didn't come to that what he did do was send a single orange rose and a single white lily in honor of his wife and daughter wow talk about the least you could fucking do no kidding how do you even get those delivered two Two flowers? I have no, right? I'm sorry. I'm focusing on the wrong thing. But I mean, like, you call up any, you know, you call up the Hy-Vee floral delivery guy.

He's going to be like, you've got to order more than that. I'm sorry. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't until February 8th. So we're talking what a couple of weeks have gone by that finally the district attorney's office issues a warrant for Neil Entwistle's arrest. They apparently decided that for sure it was him. In the meantime, what they have done is they had checked the guns that Rachel's parents owned and they owned a.22 caliber gun. And they were able to find DNA on it.

It had both Neil's DNA and Rachel's DNA on it. Whoa, what? Yes, it had Rachel's DNA on the muzzle. So you think Neil's the killer, huh? I was like, wow, you seem really surprised by this guy. I mean, he seems like such a good guy with that one rose and one lily. Yeah. The totally normal story about going off to London and go on.

Yeah, and who doesn't love a good escort? Yeah, are we going to lock up everybody who enjoys an escort? I mean, come on. And they questioned him about this in one of the phone calls. Like, have you ever, you know, handled any of Joe's guns like you know specifically the 22 caliber and he's like no no you know i have gone with him to his gun club before but no i've never i've never touched his 22 caliber ever and and so that's wow how i mean how stupid do you have to be right well don't you just say yeah i used to shoot his 22 caliber at

the gun club with him all the time yeah i mean i bet my dna is all over that motherfucker yeah start building your own defense dumb dumb exactly so finally they issue this warrant for his arrest and authorities in england go to arrest him on february 9th they catch him getting ready to board the tube because he found out that they had issued the warrant and so he was trying to skip town you know what i can't stop thinking about right now what it seems like every time you do a story in a city you always you're like i don't know if they got on the subway the tram the train like you're always worried about saying the right thing yeah you know but the tube i mean come on we know exactly what he got yeah you know but the tube yeah i mean come on we know

exactly what he got on we know what the tube is yeah mind that damn gap get on the tube okay so he's about to get on the tube he's about to get on the tube they arrested like at the last second and on him he has this like bag with a notebook inside where he's like written out a sales pitch for how he's going to sell his story to the highest bidder. No, gross. Gross. I hate him so much. He had like in the book, there were like letters to the editors of a couple of papers where he was like claiming to be a close friend of Neil Entwistle and wanted to get his side of the story out there. And again, asking for the highest price. So he was trying to profit in

any way off of this. Yep. Great. For whatever reason, and no one's quite sure why, but he decided not to fight extradition, even though he initially said that he would. And so on February 15th, he was back in the United States and in custody. He was officially indicted on March 28th. And two weeks later, he entered a plea of not guilty on all charges. You know why he didn't fight extradition? Why? Too arrogant.

Don't you think? Oh, you're probably right. I think the cops must have done a good enough job when they talked to him on the phone of making him feel kind of smart. And like, oh, yeah, well, that kind of makes sense. Well, you know, yeah, you just have to explain it to us, buddy. And like the fact that he didn't try to say, oh, yeah, I've touched the gun before. I mean mean he's just i think you know what i hadn't considered that at all and i think you're exactly right

because when you hear his fucking defense oh are you just being nice to me because i have a tumor no i'm telling you i'm telling you keep your pants buckled for my pants buckled defense okay i assume you have pilgrim pants on is that wrong i am in full colonial garb right now and i look great so he was officially charged with two counts of first degree murder illegal possession of a firearm and illegal possession of ammunition. And of course, he entered a plea of not guilty on all those charges. This trial was delayed like four different times.

First of all, they wanted to change a venue because this thing had made international news. Everybody fucking knew about it and so they ended up finally that went to trial in june of 2008 and they did move it outside of boston to woburn massachusetts oh yeah familiar yeah yeah nice i mean i really have nothing to say about the place but i'm familiar heard of it that's the place that I know about. As I mentioned, this case had become such big news that it took them four days to empanel a jury. They went through over 170 interviews of potential jurors before they were able to find 12 plus alternates who said that they had remained impartial and hadn't made any opinion about neil antwistle to this point so one little snafu happened during the jury selection like this

almost like caused a whole mistrial and everything so one potential juror said that she heard other potential jurors like talking together and how like this guy was for sure guilty how they should fry him or send him away for the rest of their life really and so yeah that was almost enough to taint the entire jury pool and they almost had to scrap the whole thing and start over but they were able to dismiss just that portion and not have to start completely over that sounds like something somebody did to try to get out of jury duty oh i completely agree yes yes so finally the trial began and the prosecution laid out you know what obviously happened in this case that neil's web of lies had come crashing

down around him he was going to have to either fess up that he wasn't making any money and they were drowning in debt and that he'd been lying about everything or he had to kill his family they even went as far as to say is that they believed that this was intended to be a murder suicide and that he couldn't carry it out but they said that this was for sure premeditated deliberate and with malice which meets all the requirements of first degree murder yeah in massachusetts the defense you're ready for it yes they got up there they hiked their pants up and then they looked the jury in the face and they said neil entwistle is innocent what happened that day is a tragedy sure but

neil was not involved okay see what happened was rachel in a fit of depression killed lillian and then killed herself and the only thing neil is guilty of is tampering with evidence because he removed the gun from the scene, hit it back at her parents' house and then fled the city in an attempt to protect his wife's honor. What do you think about that? I mean, that's obvious horseshit,

you know, but yeah, it's just obvious horseshit, but like the guy's pleading not guilty so what can you do i guess you have to feed people bullshit the only thing he's guilty of is loving his wife too much okay i don't think that i don't think that's quite it. And in loving his wife, he here has become a victim as well. Oh, wow. Sorry. Sorry to be so rude to that victim.

And the prosecution basically was like, are you fucking kidding me? And they got up there and they started to tear that defense apart one bit at a time. They painted this whole picture of neil as how he was this like compulsive liar and he told all these people that he had this they had multiple witnesses get on the stand that talked about how neil was like this great it guy he had this big contract it was like this hundred thousand dollar it contract where he was bringing in ten thousand dollars a week and that's when he bought the new house and bought the car and all that stuff and then they present all the evidence that none of that stuff was actually purchased it was all leased and like

how do you even lease a house for three months is that even a thing i i'm kind of surprised by that too i assume he i assume he had some charm or something or i must have i would assume he had i mean he had a british accent i feel like that probably goes kind of far right that goes so far so far hey if you live if you live in england right now and things aren't like going great for you come to america we're all charmed by you we love the accent i guarantee you'll do at least 50 better in america yeah and so then the prosecution was like okay if all that's not enough if those lies aren't enough we got one better for you here's the fucking dna evidence and they talked about how neil's dna was all over the grip of the 22 revolver that matched matched the gun. What more do we need? Yeah. And then on the muzzle was Rachel's DNA.

That meant that that, as they said in the autopsy, had been pressed directly to her skin. And Rachel's parents and friends all testified that Rachel never handled any of the guns. She had no interest in guns. It was not her thing. So it's not like that was residual DNA left over from some other weird incident yeah and so

the prosecution told the jury like this is what we think happened you know neil's lies were all coming down he was going to kill them and possibly kill himself like we really do believe that this was probably a murder suicide plan and that he couldn't carry out the suicide portion so he had got at some point used the key to rachel's parents house got in the gun shot lillian actually shot rachel first and then shot lillian next because if he had killed lillian first there would have been more of a struggle involved yeah yeah rachel would have fought him so that was the belief that rachel while she was holding lillian was shot first and then lillian was killed next and then he had gone back to Rachel's parents' house and stowed the gun back where he'd found it

and then left the country. Neil didn't testify in his own defense. Really, the defense didn't offer much of anything other than their theory. Like, oh, you know, clearly Rachel was dealing with postpartum depression and everybody knew it and but they couldn't prove that there was no well i'm sorry evident a lot of people suffer from postpartum that doesn't mean that they kill themselves and their baby you know absolutely absolutely thank you for agreeing well I mean, you're right. Another excellent point by me. Yes. The only time Neil showed any kind of emotion during this entire thing, during the investigation, the proceedings,

the trial, all of it, the only time, like at this point he had been known, like they had been calling him the man who can't cry, like in the press or the man who didn't cry something like that yeah so he finally breaks down in the courtroom when they show footage of the house and the crime scene and then hold up Lillian's pajamas which were covered like had blood all down the back of them was he like holding a bottle of visine probably right as much as i thought the defense was ridiculous it did something to the jury they must have believed some portion of it or at least considered some portion of it because they did deliberate for 13 hours before reaching a verdict wow which i found surprising i thought that was kind of a long time for them to deliberate that That's very, that's really long. Yeah, yeah. But finally,

on June 25, they found Neil Entwistle guilty on all charges. And the following day, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. As he was like being led away, he turned to his parents who had been in the courtroom the entire time and said he mouthed, I'll be all right to them. OK. So his parents and Rachel's parents had two very different reactions to the verdict. Rachel's parents made a statement and described, you know, what had happened as an unbearable betrayal. They had treated Neil as if he was their own son. He lived in their home.

They thought he was this loving husband, this doting father. Priscilla said, our dreams as a parent and grandparent have been shattered by the shameful and selfish acts of one person. For him to try and hide behind an accusation of murder-suicide of this beautiful woman and perfect mother is low and despicable. Joe and I, Rachel's family and friends friends were sentenced without the luxury of a trial by jury and now must go on with an eternity of emptiness. Suffering does not begin to describe what we have endured. So that was their take. Like thank good riddance.

Glad he's locked up forever. He did a fucking terrible thing to us. Yeah, of course he did. Neil's parents gave an interview outside the courtroom upon his sentencing and um said we are devastated to learn that the evidence points to rachel murdering our grandchild and then committing suicide no we knew rachel was depressed and our son will now go to jail for loving honoring and protecting his wife's memory

oh wow wow his father said yeah his father said from the moment we heard all we need now is the right jury pool we knew neil would not receive a fair trial we will continue to fight for our innocent son with the hope that one day justice will prevail and our little granddaughter lily may rest in peace do you think they really believe that i i don't know i mean it really seems like they do i mean i can't imagine oh how hard it would be to wrap your head around the idea that you raised a kid who then murdered his wife and his own child. I mean, that would be very hard to wrap your head around. It'd be much easier to believe a bullshit defense.

But at the same time, I mean, come on. How do you ignore all the other evidence? Yeah. do you ignore all the other evidence yeah yeah i mean neil's dad went on to write a book about it called neil's story trial by media no he claims yeah he claims that neil just didn't get a fair shake from the beginning everybody you know made their judgments about him before it ever went to trial and everybody you know failed to look at the facts in the case. Like the DNA? Right.

Exactly. OK. So a little fun fact about Neil here. He was obviously sentenced to life in prison. He was originally sent to the Sousa Baranowski Correctional Center in Shirley, Massachusetts. But here's the fun thing about men who who kill their own children oh is there a fun thing about men who kill their own children they're not they're not real popular in prison oh no very quickly got the nickname baby killer and in december of 2008 he was involved in an incident with a white supremacist group oh so he had approached this white supremacist group and asked if he could join

in return for some like in exchange for some protection okay they would give him security and he would you know pledge his allegiance to them i don't fucking know and so they're like oh yeah buddy 100 yeah come on join us shave your head and so he did he shaved like he shaved his head he i don't know what else like swore his allegiance to this white supremacist group and then it turned out the whole thing was a fucking prank on him by this white supremacist group like the a prison official like as he was like okay guys i'm in i did it look as he was doing this a prison guard overheard the gang like talking to him and we're like yeah okay it's a nice gesture you know you look pretty good with your head

shaved but um we're still gonna fucking kill you oh oh man and so yeah and so that prison guard like did what he was supposed to and got him put into protection and they ended up transferring him to a different a different prison and no word on if he's still known as the baby killer well neil i don't know what to tell you buddy i mean everyone knows white supremacists are bad so i don't know why you tried to team up with them right in 2012 he did try to appeal his conviction saying that he deserved a new trial because police had searched his home without a warrant because they'd gone in looking for them when the you know they'd done that initial search but that was rejected by the massachusetts

supreme judicial court and then he like then tried to get that heard by the u.s supreme court and they were like um sorry buddy no yeah and so he remains in prison today wow well i hope his hair has grown back nicely i'll tell you, that was a weird twist with the prank by the white supremacist. By the white supremacist group. We're like, hey, let's see if we can get this guy to shave his head. Yeah, you know, we're into hating everybody, being super awful all the time. Also pranks, though. Also pranks.

We really like a good prank. Oh, my God. What a, oh, what a terrible story. God. Yeah, it's a rough one. And I think, well, no, I was going to say. What? Never mind.

What? Maybe I've done all the family annihilators now, but I doubt I have. Well, and don't jinx it. I mean, good grief. But it does seem like you've covered a lot. I have covered a lot of them. I'm telling you, didn't that guy have John List vibes coming off of him?

No, 100% had John List vibes coming off of him. Oh, and if anybody doesn't remember John List, give them the highlights of John List. Oh, yeah. So the Reader's Digest version. John List was the guy who he was like super Christian. They lived in like this amazing big house in, I think, New Jersey or whatever. And his wife was secretly kind of crazy because of what's that syphilis. And and he thought all of his family was going to go to hell.

And so he killed them all to save their souls. And then he went on the run for 18 years. Terribly nice. He also hadn't had a job in like two years and was pilfering his mother's life savings well and he was going to the bus stop every day every day pretending to go to work yeah so i mean that's that's kind of where i'm like drawing the vibes of like pretending you're super successful and like that's how long do you think you can keep it up buddy yeah that's like the mark hacking case that i did for the bonus episode like that guy how long do you think you can keep it up buddy yeah that's like the mark

hacking case that i did it for the bonus episode like that guy faked going to fucking medical school oh my god yeah that was super disturbing and a very good plug for the patreon well done thank you i i you know tip my business hat to you and my business hat is just made of dollar bills thank you yes um i'm picturing it on a tiny dick pic on the dick or on the dick pic because i think that's oh on the dick thank you yeah thank you yes well told brandy well told thank you well folks no i was thinking as i've been going through my my fun times this week that maybe there's like

some psas that people can take away from this we always joke about having psas on this podcast but i really feel like maybe there's some psas from this. There might be. Shit ball of an experience. Yeah. But yeah, so last Thursday, I woke up feeling great. Couple hours later, talking like maybe, you know, 11 o'clock or something, my stomach started to feel super funky. Almost like I'd had too much coffee, like, you know, kind of acidic and just upset. But not like some huge, oh my gosh, something's wrong situation. And so I went upstairs to go get some work done. And all of a sudden felt like I needed to vomit.

And holy mother of God, it was the exorcist situation. It was bad, bad, real bad for like two hours and i'm sorry for anyone who doesn't like gross stories but i mean i've i've got a cyst that might have teeth in it so i mean there's it doesn't get better so yeah threw up for forever two hours is forever and throwing up i mean that yes when you're throwing up that is forever oh my god it it was terrible and the weird thing was was that like my stomach was now in severe pain which which was kind of just a weird a weird add-on you know because like you obviously I've thrown up before that's no fun but like this was really strange that all of a sudden my stomach hurt like hell.

Yeah. And so finally, when I'd like emptied myself of all fluids, I got in bed. But my stomach was still hurting so bad. And my mom's a nurse. So Norman was kind of calling her getting advice. I didn't feel like talking to anybody. You know, I was just miserable. Yeah.

And so she had told us, okay, once you've not puked for two hours, try taking some Tylenol. I was like, okay. So I took some Tylenol, hoping, you know, maybe some of the pain would go away. Pain did not go away. Oh, OK. Sorry. I should have written some stuff down here. No, you're fine.

Initially, initially, I thought that this was anxiety because I've talked on the podcast about how I've lately with like COVID and all this stuff, I've been having like anxiety vomiting, which I haven't had since law school. And so initially Norman was like, hey, maybe you just need to take a walk. I was like, this is not a walk will not help. But the other thing that happened was on Wednesday, I got yet another rejection from my book. Yet another rejection from my book. And this one's kind of like, you know, I hate to say the end of the road for the book because I'm hoping that, you know, okay, if I write another, maybe that one will get published.

You know, anyway. So part of me initially was like, is this just sad feelings? Is this kind of in my head? Right. But, you know, things just kept getting worse and worse and worse. And hours passed. And finally, you know, I got on the phone with my mom again. I was like, you know, the Tylenol did nothing. I am in so much pain. And by that point, we'd all kind of been wondering if maybe I was having appendicitis. Yeah. But but i was like i was terrified to go to the er because first of all i've never been to the er before and second of all what a fucking time to go

to the er when we've got uh yeah exactly you want to make sure it's like the most emergency of emergencies to be going and that was my fear i. I was like, if I just have, like, some stomach bug, the last thing I want to do is go to the fucking ER right now. Like, I don't want to be worse. Another fun fact is that since Norman and I are self-employed, we get to choose our own insurance, and I have always insisted on getting the cheapest insurance possible. So, PSA. on getting the cheapest insurance possible.

So PSA, my logic has always been we're healthy. And we've never had anything serious ever. And it's not necessarily that I would say you should not get the cheapest insurance. But if I could do it over again, I would pay much more attention to what hospitals accept my insurance. Yeah, because, you know, now we're in a pretty bad situation. And, you know, because of my cheapness, we don't have a lot of good options, which, which sucks. Anyway, so that's PSA number one. Okay. Are you guys writing this down? That's a good PSA. Yes, that's a very good one. Well, I think it's probably pretty obvious, but you know, here I am. So my mom's on the phone with us and she's kind of doing the things you do to check for appendicitis. She's telling Norman to

kind of push down on my stomach, you know, see how I react. And I'm not really reacting the way you should for appendicitis. Although I was having a lot of concentrated pain in my lower right side. And so she said, okay, well, can you can you lift your legs? And Brandy, I lifted them like a champ. Okay. I don't mean to brag to you. I've already complimented your abs on a bonus video, Kristen. So, oh, actually, actually, the editing of that makes it just sound like Norm is complimenting your abs. I started that compliment train just for the record. I know that was very rude that that was cut out. But, you know, if you have any more compliments you'd like to give me,

feeling very weak today, perhaps you'd like to do that. No. So the thing I liked about my mom's advice and here's the other PSA is, you know, it was kind of clear ish, you know, in all that pain that it might not be appendicitis yeah but what she ended up saying was it's your body listen to your body if something's wrong you know something's wrong and you need to go to the ER so I mean it's so funny to look at my text to Norman that day because you know he so his office is on the first floor. I'm usually on the second floor. And I was texting him and, you know, it started off like, hey, you know, could you could you bring me some water? Oh, hey, could you bring me some Tylenol? And then all of a sudden,

I need you to take me to the ER right now. So we all asked to the er they did a ct scan that's where you know we discovered this you know fun tommy the tumor tommy the tumor dermoid thing that you know looks like a muppet baby i guess i don't know that's kind of how i picture it that's kind of how I picture it. Yeah, God, I don't know how much there is to tell. It's funny because I kind of look at all medical procedures almost the same way I look at like going to get my car fixed. I know nothing medical. I know nothing about getting my car fixed. So as long as the mechanic is like nice to me and seems competent, then I'm like, that's a good mechanic. But really, what the hell

do i know yeah because yeah my my er experience i thought it was good because they all were nice and seemed concerned i have since learned that it was basically crazy that they didn't do an ultrasound on me because i was presenting signs of ovarian torsion. Which can result in loss of an ovary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's very serious. I've also since learned that it was kind of crazy that they didn't even do a pelvic exam

on me. Yes. Also, and again, these are just the things you don't know. So I was in terrible, terrible pain. Thursday and Friday and Saturday morning, I was in terrible terrible pain thursday and friday and saturday morning i was in the worst pain i've ever experienced in my life so they got me they got me out of the er and they you know wrote me prescriptions for you know anti-nausea and some pain medication but they didn't like send me home with any pain medication or like just enough to get me through.

Of course, because that's what they fucking do. They treat you like you're in there, like just trying to score, score drugs. But the thing is, and the funny thing is, like, I'm aware. I'm aware of that. And to anyone who's in the medical community and feeling a little like picked on right now. I, I totally understand that you do have to be really careful about that because opioid addiction is a huge problem oh it's a huge problem and you know there was a long period of time where those things were over prescribed and it's created you know a big issue with addiction

so obviously i know you have to be careful but man they found a fucking tumor on my CT scan. So obviously I didn't make that up. Right. So, you know, a couple things there. But the ER doctor was like, look, you need to be seen by an OBGYN. They, you know, referred me out to somebody. You need to be seen soon so you can get an ultrasound. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You'll probably have to have surgery. Okay. know they do the referral I was up all night just miserable

Norman set his alarm for Friday morning just like as soon as that clinic would open he wanted to call and get me that appointment so he called and he said that they seemed really weirded out by the fact that he was calling on my behalf why and he tried to explain like well she's in she's just in a ton of pain you know so anyway they're like oh yeah yeah he he tells him the whole deal they're like yeah we'll call you back in two hours okay four hours pass. Norman calls again, gets the voicemail. So now we're into Friday afternoon. I'm miserable and still thinking I've got to be seen today. So Friday at like, I want to say like 2.30 ish, I got a call from that clinic and the lady was like the nurse was like hey you know um the doctor's gonna go ahead and look at your ct scan on Monday and I you're

I would have fucking lost it I burst into tears yes I burst into tears and I was like I'm I'm in so much pain I'm in so much pain you I'm in so much pain. You know, please, please, please. I thought I'd be seen today. And she's just kind of like, I don't want to say she was totally uncaring, but she said, well, you know, take Tylenol take, because the other thing I'd said was, I only have 10 pain pills. Because that's true. The ER wrote me this prescription, and it was for 10 pills. It was said to last seven days, that is the most laughable thing. And she was like, well, you can take Tylenol and ibuprofen. And I said, that's not going to cut it. That is not going to cut it. I'm nauseous. I'm miserable. I'm, you know, I'm nauseous. I'm miserable. Please, please. And, you know, the answer was just like, no. Yeah. So I got off the phone with her. And, you know, I'm not going to name names in this story, but I am going to name one name. So I want to let me make sure I can give them the plug that they deserve.

So, you know, Norman's sitting with me the whole time. He's watching me cry on the phone to this woman. Yeah. I hang up. I'm like, yeah, I'm not getting in. They're not going to see me. The doctor's not even going to look. And he goes, oh, so are we getting in Monday at least? I said, no, the doctor's going to look at my CT scan on Monday.

That's it. So he said, OK, the doctor is going to look at my CT scan on Monday. That's it. So he said, OK, call Midtown. So Midtown Family Medicine is where we go for like, you know, just primary care stuff. They are wonderful. And Sydney Sigler has been like the angel in this whole process. She got me in. She took me seriously. A limit to what she could do for me.

But she at least like became my advocate. And she said, I will call them on Monday. You call them on Monday. You know, she made sure I had the medication I needed for the weekend. You know, she made sure I had the medication I needed for the weekend. And on Monday, I called again to the place, left a message, blah, blah, blah. And the lady, I got on the phone with the lady said, yeah, yeah, we can see you June 4th. I would have lost my fucking mind, Kristen. The lady said, yeah, yeah, we can see you June 4th. I would have lost my fucking mind, Kristen.

It was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. I think and I think part of it is, you know, my health privilege is hanging out there showing because I guess since I've never had a serious medical issue myself, I had all these assumptions. I was like, yeah, you know, it takes you forever to get an appointment with a doctor for like an annual physical or a pap or whatever. But that's fine because you're healthy and you know, you can wait a while. My assumption was always that if something really bad was happening, they would do what they could to get you in quickly. So anyway, I told the woman, you know, I was just stunned. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, June 4th, that that won't work. And I told her about how the only reason I can keep food down

is because of anti nausea medication. I told her about my pain level. And I will say, beginning Saturday night, the pain did start to go down. Thank God. You know, I'm not, I'm still not sure why. But for whatever reason, like right now, I'm just sitting here kind of in like moderate pain, which is like awesome compared to Thursday and Friday. So I'm not questioning it. But I told her about my pain. And I told her about my pain. And I told her about, you know, this GI stuff. And she said, Oh, okay, okay, okay, let me talk to the doctor. Okay, so she calls me back, May 19. And I, I was just stunned. And I was like, honestly, I really thought you guys would be getting me in today.

I mean, I cried on the phone with someone on Friday. Like, I can't believe it. So then she's like, okay, well, how about. And then she said to some other date that was a little over a week away, which I'm like, why didn't you offer me the soonest date first? But, you know, anyway, whatever. Right. And I wish I had it recorded. But at some point i wish i had it recorded but at some point i was just like i've got a tumor and the lady was like well you know the doctor

looked at your ct scan and decided it's it's not urgent a relief that the doctor doesn't think it's urgent, but I'm having trouble keeping food down and I'm in severe pain. So this doesn't feel non-urgent. And I can't wait that long. And so she reiterated, doctor says it's non-urgent. And then I've got all my papers in front of me. And I said, well, wait, wait, wait. The ER doctor said and he documented that I needed to be seen within seven days. Yeah. She goes, they tell that to everyone. Cool. Which like, I can't believe that that's true. there's no way that's true well here's the thing

even if it is true if it's documented and let's say something really bad is happening to someone you've got to you've got to see them unless you want to get sued. I mean, never mind patient care. Never mind, like, taking care of people. Like, I don't know. So I got off the phone with her. I'm sure we'll be exchanging Christmas cards because it was, we had a real fun vibe in that phone call. Anyway, so I called my angel back sydney sigler and she you know she got my all my insurance information for my crappy insurance and she's like okay yeah i will get you in somewhere

so she worked and worked and worked she did get me in somewhere but then I kept reflecting on that place that the ER referred me to and I was like that is not right what they did to me no because you know they're doing that to other women too absolutely and that's just that is not okay I'm sitting here miserable and they're telling me to wait till June 4th. Yeah, fuck off. So the hospital site has this like, you know, tell us how we did, you know, send us your compliments or complaints. And I'm like, mm-hmm, I've got a complaint. So I wrote it all out and, you know,

you best believe I was sure to mention the ER doctor documented that I needed to be seen within seven days and the nurse said, they say that to everybody. So anyway, I sent that off. And then Brandy, the next day. I'm sorry, I feel weird telling you this, because you know, all this, I've told you all this stuff. But like, yeah, so the next day, like like magic I got a phone call from them and they were like oh my gosh um that's so weird hey girlfriend hey girl miss you love you we'd love to see you Thursday at one and I was a bee and a half and I was like, really? Because I begged for this appointment on Friday and Monday.

I cried on the phone and I was told that my tumor was not urgent. I don't see why this suddenly opened up. And so like the first lady, I don't think she knew what she was in for. So she transferred me to another lady who was the lady I'd talked to on Monday. And that lady was like, oh, yeah, hey, yeah, yeah, got an appointment opened up on Thursday at one. And you know, I kind of did the same thing with her of like, yeah, I don't understand why all of a sudden I'm getting this appointment. And she Well, you know, it's because of your GI issues. And I was like, Well, I told you,

I told you about my GI issues on Monday. And I someone else on Friday it didn't matter then uh-huh anyway this is such a weird time to be complaining about people about medical people at all so I don't want it to sound sound like that. It's just I felt like a few people were being really heartless. Yeah, totally heartless in this whole thing. And I, I know that that is not everybody. It's just like, it's been it's been quite the experience. So anyway, I finally got in thanks to my primary care person, I finally got in on Wednesday to do an ultrasound. That was a weird experience. Good grief. I've never had one of those. I'm telling you, you wouldn't typically unless you've had some kind of issue or you've had a pregnancy. That was my first OB visit to confirm my pregnancy.

I had one of those trans-vag things. They just shove it in. I mean, no conversation, no nothing. So I've had two now. I had one on my first visit, and then I had one midway through my pregnancy to check the strength of my cervix, which is just way too much information that nobody cares about. How do they test? I had two different experiences. You had what now? i had two different experiences you had what now so two

very different experiences the first one was my doctor my ob she did it and she was like okay i'm gonna you know relax for me she was super like nice and very gentle about it and then at the second one the lady was like here i'm gonna give this to you do it yourself which i thought both of those were great experiences yeah yeah that's i kind of love that because yeah we're perfectly capable of sticking something up there oh man yeah i don't know you know what mine honestly reminded me of okay this is going to sound really weird but stick with me okay um at my grandma's funeral it was no stick with me i'm dying to know where this is going so at my grandma's funeral it was done by this you know this funeral home where like my grandma and grandpa lived for forever.

My my dad, my aunt and uncle were raised there. You know, it's kind of a it's the local funeral home. And, you know, it was very sad. And, you know, at the cemetery, you know, after everything was done, the funeral director was like, I don't know. He was just like, kind of like, kind of seemed just real happy to see us. Because, like, you know, we hadn't been there since, you know, my grandpa was buried and he just was like, you know, hey, yeah hey yeah yeah and I remember thinking at the time what this is inappropriate this is like not the vibe man because not the vibe but then I started thinking about it later and it was like okay well this is what he does every single day he can't be

down every single day you know there's gonna be be times when you are just like, oh, hey, I kind of know these people like, hey, you know, how's it going? OK, that's how I felt about the lady who did my ultrasound. She was just real cash, very casual. I just shoved it in there. And like she used she used my leg as like she kind of stuffed it under her armpit and leaned on it like a crutch. When you told me that, I was like, what? Because I've had several ultrasounds now during this pregnancy. No one has ever done that ever.

And, you know, here I am, 34, never been pregnant. So I'm like, is this what they do? I I don't know. And And you know, I'm not there for a fun reason. So I didn't even want to look at, I mean, who wants to look at their tumor? So I'm like looking away, trying to pretend that this is not my life. And, you know, she's like, well, take a look here, you know, using all these terms I've never heard of in my life. You know, she finishes up and maybe there are some. OK, Norman is good about this.

I'm terrible about this. But like when I'm in kind of a scary situation and you're throwing words at me that I've never heard before. Don't know how to spell. I'm just like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And nothing. I'm catching none of it. Norman somehow catches all of it and then Googles it all later. I catch none of it. I'm Norman, too.

I'm like, OK, I'm just like, I'm clinging on to keywords. And I'm like, OK, I'm going to Google all this shit the second I get out of here. I wish I was that. And like, the thing is they let him into the ER with me, which was such a relief because he was able to do that. But obviously, you know, when I went to go get my fun ultrasound, he was not allowed in. So I was like, is there any way that I could get some of this printed out or written down? And I said this, mind you, I was sitting next to a printer. And she kind of looked at it and she goes, I don't know how to do that. So then she wrote, she took out a post-it and wrote Dermoid on it and handed it to me. So that was that experience. And to add some fun stuff to it, the first place I went to on Wednesday

apparently they just opened like five seconds ago and so you know I thought I was going there and I was going to get this ultrasound that I was supposed to get while I get there they don't have that capability the doctor was wonderful but like first things first the nurse walks in she doesn't have like a computer or anything which I thought like huh and she doesn't even have a chart or anything she's just asking me questions and writing them on a post-it I was like this this doesn't seem this doesn't seem real legit yeah like I mean writing she's allergic to penicillin on a post, is that really going to do anything at all?

But, you know, the doctor I dealt with there did seem very good. And, you know, obviously got me in to get an ultrasound like an hour later, which, you know, was good. I was supposed to get a call to get my surgery scheduled this morning. And it is uh let's see let's see we got 325 so i'm still waiting for that yeah anyway all right here's my here's my hot take okay i'm so glad that this is i mean i still think it's very scary and you will still be having that surgery, which is terrifying. It's an easy surgery.

But it's way better than it could have been. Oh, yeah. So I'm very happy with that. And I'm happy that your pain has been alleviated some as well because this is a long time to go to be in extreme pain. So hopefully they get your surgery scheduled like super super fast and we can just get you healed and and move on i hope so yeah i do feel it's it's a luxury to complain about these things because obviously if it if i had something scarier i'd be saving the complaining for another day but like like, I just think,

I think the thing that has sucked about this is it's been so exhausting. And... Yep, because you have to advocate for yourself. And it's like, holy shit, I don't have the strength to do that when I'm dealing with all of my medical issues. Well, and the other thing I've thought a lot about was like, how do people do this if they're if they're

single or they have a shitty partner or you know what do you do yeah yeah uh so yeah Norman as usual has been just lovely just lovely Saint Normie Saint Normie Saint Normie oh my gosh but yeah so he's been. Oh, I do have a complaint about him, though. Let me tell you. Oh, no. Here we go. OK, so here's the deal.

For a while there, I was on enough hydrocodone to make me stupid. Have you been on hydrocodone before? Yes, after my thyroid surgery. OK, did it give you kind of brain fog at all? I don't remember being, I don't remember brain fog, but I wasn't really doing anything. I remember just being the most comfortable I had ever been in my entire life. And I was like, wow, no wonder people get hooked on this shit. Okay. Okay. So that's the funny thing is, you know, going back to like Thursday when my pain

was crazy, you know, I had my wisdom teeth taken out a while ago. Not actually not that long ago, like a couple of months ago. Yeah. And so my sister was like, well, do you still have those pain pills? And no, I did not. Because like you, I had them. I liked them and was like, oh, my God, I understand why people get addicted. So I threw them out.

Threw those fuckers out. Boy, I really wish I hadn't done that on Thursday. Yeah, exactly. I was becoming BFFs with my turlet. Oh, my God. But no. So, you know, maybe it's not really brain fog, but it's kind of the drowsiness or whatever. So all I was doing, I was just sitting in the recliner and I decided to do a rare thing, which is watch a movie.

So I had heard good things about the movie Nice Guys. I think Ryan Gosling, Russell Crowe. Yeah, Russell Crowe. And so I put it on. I'm watching and I'm like, I don't know, maybe like halfway through almost. And Norman walks in and sometimes we'll do this with each other when like one of us is watching something. It's like, oh, no, don't restart it.

Just, you know, pause it. Tell me everything that's happened. Fill me in. And, you know, we'll watch together. So he's like, oh, pause it, pause it. He goes, what's happening. Fill me in. We'll watch together. He's like, pause it, pause it. He goes, what's happening? I was like, I have no idea. I've been watching half this movie.

I have no idea what is happening. At some point, someone will have to tell me if that's actually a complicated movie or if it was the drugs. I actually really like that movie, but I would struggle with how to describe the plot to someone. Okay, good, good. Well, after that, really like that movie, but I would struggle with how to describe the plot to someone. Okay, good, good.

Well, after that, we decided that the only movies I could watch were Ben Stiller movies. Because I didn't want anything sad. There's no dramas playing in this home, thank you very much. So nothing sad. I wanted Ben Stiller. I wanted it to be dumb. And I love a good poop joke. So there better be some poop jokes.

Yeah. So watched Along Came Polly, watched Heartbreak Kid. And then Norman was like, have you ever seen the movie Heavyweights? I was like, no. So he explains this plot to me that I i thought well that sounds like it could be kind of fun so the plot is it's this fat camp that the kids love that's this really happy place run by this sweet old couple but then it gets bought out by this mean workout guru he's he's like evil to the kids and you know it's ben stiller's

character and it's about how they like try to take their camp back and i was like yeah okay that sounds good the movie sucked ass the movie was the worst thing ever and then like the whole time norman was like i bet brandy likes this i bet brandy likes this movie i was like no there's no way anyone likes this movie brandy take the story away yeah so you text me and you're like have you seen heavyweights and i said no i haven't but david and i were just talking about it because it's one of his favorite movies and he wants me to watch it yeah so i have not seen it but uh but David and Norm have similar tastes in those movies. David and Norm, like we could set them up for like weeks on end with just a Disney Plus account and some snacks. Those two would be thrilled.

I think all they did all their childhoods was watch the Disney Channel. I think so, too. So we've been like watching the old like Disney original movies and like been showing them to jack and stuff and like david knows all the words to the fucking movies i'm like how many times have you seen this and he's like i don't know not that many and i was like oh no yes that many yes if you've got it memorized you saw it many many times not that many and mean I've never seen any of them no no what the hell were we doing I don't think we had the Disney Channel I don't know oh you know what yeah my dad was way too cheap for any of that crap yeah I don't think we had the Disney Channel I would I would have to confirm that with Casey she would know for sure but I I don't remember ever watching the Disney Channel so

we married very bougie husbands. That's right. I'm sorry, you're not married yet, but you get the idea. I got the idea. I had to fill out the paperwork for the hospital to register for when I have to push this baby out. And I had to either select David's relationship to me. And it was either spouse or life partner. And I wasn't sure which one to select. Yeah, I mean, I guess you got to do the life partner.

Yes. Oh, man. What a mess. Oh, man. Well, I'm anxiously awaiting your surgery to get scheduled so we can get you on the mend. Yeah. So Norm texted me that you were in the emergency room and that you guys that you they thought maybe you had appendicitis. And so my assumption was that he was probably freaking out because that's how he does. Yeah. And so I was like, so I texted him. I was like, I was like i was like oh my gosh thank you for letting

me know of course i'm like are you able to be with her or did you basically have to push her out like pull up to the emergency room door and push her out of your moving car and so i think that got like a little chuckle out of him it did i mean it made me laugh through the morphine you know what also made me think of you so you know they they get us into a room you know whatever they leave us alone there's like this little tiny michael scott tv you know up in the corner yeah and we put it on and the golden girls was on the hallmark channel as it always is oh my gosh but it was the episode where dorothy goes to the hospital and she's afraid she's gonna die and it was like this is too on the nose I'm terrified to be here but yeah so that's that's been Pee Wee's big adventure this week um oh it has been a big adventure I'm just you know ready for for this to be over with yeah yeah and ready for you know a whole new health care system and whole

new insurance system i'm sure if i just hold my breath that'll come oh yeah that's coming any day now christian oh it's just been it's been a real mess i told norm, I want, I want like a Walmart situation, which is funny, because I don't shop at Walmart. But you know what I mean? Like, I want to show up. And like, you want an ultrasound? Okay, get an ultrasound. You want this? Yeah, okay, go ahead. Just like, and they just, you know, shop here around to different little departments. I'm basically describing a hospital, but I guess I want one that works well. Yes. And the irony is. One that functions at a better level than what you were exposed to.

And the frustrating thing is, like, we've got a lot of great places to go in Kansas City. But again, me being cheap, I didn't. Yeah. I. Yeah. I limited my options is what i'm saying yeah i mean you don't really think about when you have to actually that you're actually going to have to use your insurance at some point you're like well you know i better have this just in case but the funny thing is is that like i thought about it more than you might think i did just because I we picked a plan that is basically like obviously it's super cheap and the deal is like if bad things happen you have to pay a lot out

of pocket and so I did think about that because we have you know I've been good about like setting money aside for medical emergencies so that we don't have to pay as much in insurance and so yeah I thought about it a lot, but only from that perspective. I just thought about like, yeah, if something bad happens to us, we will be okay. I didn't think about like, if something bad happens to us, which hospital will we have to go to? And will they treat me like a dumb hoe for wanting to get in, get an ultrasound? Like, I don't know when the ER doctor tells me to. Anyway. Right. Anyway. A big thank you to all of

our health care workers out there. I know this is a really super stressful time for all of you guys. I hope this didn't feel like I'm pooping on healthcare workers at all, because obviously I've, I've had some really good experiences in here. And I think it's just, it's been a stressful time. Didn't feel like you could bust out shitting on healthcare workers there. Kristen had to say pooping. I want to keep it classy. You know, you really drag us down with your language. So I'm trying to keep it classy. It's all me.

All right. Should we take some questions from the Discord? Yeah. So this is interesting to me because like I think it's kind of fun that we do like a few questions at the end. But I didn't know that anybody felt either way about it. And then we got a message on Instagram because last week's episode was a fucking forever long and so we were like no we're not going to do questions and people somebody was like hey where are the questions like sorry we thought five hours of listening to us was enough it's funny because i thought this episode i was like oh gosh this is gonna be the shortest episode ever are you looking at your computer like we've been going for a while

yeah and now well i guess you know tommy the tumor had to you know steal the show little bitch right i hate this guy no so well yeah so let's discord questions question mark and if you're full sentences and if you're wondering how to get into the Discord, you just go on Patreon. You sign up at the $5 or $7 level. And you get to join in, make case suggestions, show us pictures of your pets, chat with us. It's a good time. Yeah, the animal channel is my favorite. Oh, me too.

Oh, dogs and cats and goats and whatever else. All kinds of creatures. Oh, I have a corgi story i have to tell okay what is it okay so i've told the story about how there's these this couple in my neighborhood that has two corgis and they walk them all the time so a few nights ago they caught us looking at their corgis like like we were trying to be really nonchalant in the driveway and like look at them as they're walking by and like we made trying to be really nonchalant in the driveway and like look at them as they were walking by and like we made awkward eye contact and so david was like oh hey we love your corgis like he made it not awkward which he's he's really good at like diffusing a situation

like that like and so they were like oh you know thanks so yesterday we had the windows open it was it was really nice and i heard dogs barking I said, those are the corgis. And David's like, I don't see them. And I was like, I know those barks. Those are the corgis. And so we get up and we go out on the front porch. And sure enough, here come the corgis around the corner. I have recognized the corgis barks now, Kristen.

I'm so obsessed with these dogs. You're a full on creep, ma'am. Yeah. So now we were standing on our porch waiting for the corgis to come into view and the people were like they like waved at us and we're like hi how's it going just came out to see your dogs well you know it is kind of a tease now because you can't go up and pet people's dogs anymore or kick them as you've been wanting to know yeah this is my my next step is getting to pet these corgis so someday soon i hope well people like you tend to escalate

okay okay i'm looking at the questions right now yeah hit me with your question i love this one saint what's its butt asks what's the smartest thing either of you has ever done oh oh all right i've got a mean one which i'm gonna skip i have a mean one too i was just gonna say it we Do you want me to go to go first? Yeah, okay, I'm gonna do my top three because I like this question. Yeah. Number one best decision of my life by far marrying Norman. And I don't mean that in like a super mushy way. But I think that he is just such a good partner for me. Like, he genuinely genuinely makes me laugh I think he's the funniest person on earth I love being with him and he is I'm trying to think of how to say this in a non-creepy way but like the thing that is is that what you were gonna say no I I was going to say like the thing that drew him to me was my independence.

And so being with a guy who isn't just like some people are like, oh, you want a man who isn't threatened by like, no, fuck that. I don't want someone who's not threatened. I want someone who likes that I'm independent and And I want to do my own thing. And I want to be my own person. And so it's been like, being married to him, like, I, I would not have had the ability to be writing books. I don't think I would have had the confidence to start this podcast with you. Because part of the confidence came from him being like, yeah, you want tech support, I'll help you, you know, I'll teach you how to edit stuff you know blah blah blah blah blah all that stuff and like supporting him with his channel and you know helping him quit his corporate job that he

didn't like I mean like they that's just been so fun and fulfilling so that's number one yeah So that's number one. Number two, best decision, quitting law school. Because, yeah, I mean, that was a super hard decision. Yeah, because, you know, sometimes you get the grades back I'd be. I don't think I would be happy. And I'd be in a lot of debt. And I would be I would feel locked in to that career. Yeah. When my whole life I've known I wanted to be a novelist. But you know, my my decision to go to law school was more out of fear than anything else. And then the mean one is, I don't really think this is that mean, because I'm sure he's very happy now. But the best thing, third best thing I've ever done in my life was dumping my first boyfriend. And he, he was a great guy. But we've been together for almost five years and it was one of those things where

it seemed very obvious that marriage was gonna be in the cards and it was like my whole life felt planned out and you know dumping someone who hasn't done anything wrong to you is really really hard but yeah he's fine yeah um okay i'll do my main one but i'll save it for a second so first okay smartest thing i ever did was leave my corporate job and go into business with my family in my own salon like best thing i've ever done for my mental health best thing i've ever done for my career like i get to work with my sister Kim every day. It's I get to do what I love and not deal with like corporate bullshit. It's.

Yeah. One hundred percent the best thing that I've ever ever done as far as that goes. Second best thing my kind of mean one. You could think this is mean or not. I don't know. Getting divorced and not trying to save a marriage that didn't need saving. Like. Why is that mean? It wasn't even. I don't know. OK. I not trying to save a marriage that didn't need saving. Why does that mean? It wasn't even, I don't know.

Okay, I get you. It wasn't even, yeah, it wasn't even a question to me. It was, this is what has happened and now I'm filing for divorce. Like, to me, there was, that was what I did and what I had to do. And it's the best thing I ever did. It is funny. You really didn't agonize over it at all I did I mean obviously it was terrible but you didn't agonize over the decision at all

no no because and like because I just I was never going to gosh as um self-esteem has never been my strong point but even at that point in my life when it was like the lowest it could have possibly been, like I was never going to be someone's second choice. Yeah. Like that just was not an option for me. Also, he sucked. And so, yeah.

Right. See, this is where it ventures into a little bit of mean territory, Kristen. Well, you said you didn't want to be mean. And then third, I'll say joining a dating app. Like I had no idea what I was doing. I was like, this is so fucking stupid. Why am I doing this?

And then I met David and my life is amazing and he's amazing. And I couldn't be happier in it or in a better place. I'm so glad. Today. I'm so glad. I'm so glad I'm so excited the baby is coming oh she is my gosh she's coming oh I'm so pumped oh me too god I love that question that was a great question thank you saint what's its butt and I don't know I'm hoping, I feel like a lot of people are

struggling relationship-wise, obviously. I can't imagine a worse time to be in a bad relationship. Oh my gosh, no kidding. But just, again, from my personal experience, breaking up with my first boyfriend was the hardest thing I had had to do up until that point, and definitely one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. Because I think I had it in my head that like, well, you break up when, you know, somebody cheats or when you know, somebody does something awful. And no, you can break up with someone just because they're not right for you. And that's totally fine. They don't have to be awful. Yeah, they could be a perfectly pleasant person. And it just not be right. Yeah. And, you know, if if they cry a lot, you know, I mean, I should stop. Yeah. Again, venturing into that mean territory. He's fine now. He's fine now. He's doing great.

Okay, let's see. Next thing. Oh, gosh. How do you say this? Beshade88 wants to know, where did sexy time come from? I mean, why is DP so against the F-bomb? That is a good question. I think that's a question for you, Kristen.

Oh, my gosh. You know, but I think it's kind of for you, too, because you know my dad. I mean, so my dad, here's the thing about him. He will say some of the most wildly inappropriate stuff you've ever heard. I was going to say, he is inappropriate in the most buttoned up way possible. Yes, yes. He's not crude. He's not any of that. But he will ask you how much money you make to your face, which is awkward.

You're right. He's not going to make a gross joke necessarily. And he's never going to curse. No. like a gross joke necessarily and he's he's never gonna curse no but he is one of the most inappropriate people you'll ever meet because yes yes i mean yeah when he when he brandy when he asked you how much you make i about died i almost died. So many things that man has done. Here's the worst thing. Is that like, so he'll say these inappropriate things.

And sometimes it's just so embarrassing. But other times it's really, really funny. Like one time. Okay, we have Legoland in Kansas City. Have you been to lego land it seems like the place you'd want to go i'm dying to go to lego land we actually had plans to go to lego land before this whole fucking covid i'm sorry i'm sorry too soon okay so anyway we were all sitting around talking about lego land because norman and i and i had taken our niece, Allie, to Legoland. And I can't remember how this came up exactly. But we talked about how apparently there had been some issues where, like, people, you know, a lot of adults want to go to Legoland.

But, you know, it's really more of a kids thing. And you don't want just adults to show up at at lego land without kids seems kind of weird and so i guess lego land had come out with this new deal where you know just adults would come on this certain day or whatever and my daddy goes yeah they call it perf night this was like in front of the whole field. It was like, God. Anyway, that's the DP. Why can he not say the F-bomb? I don't know. I don't know. He likes to be inappropriate in other ways. That's true.

Ooh. Amy D17 asks, do you ever think that researching and talking about crime so much would make it easier to get away with one? Okay, I'll say yes and no. Okay. So yes, because I think that we see where people make mistakes a lot. But I also think no, because maybe we'd get too cocky and be like, bitch, I know how to do this. No, impossible. And then make a stupid mistake

impossible get what i'm saying i i get what you're saying but i like i don't think you and i i don't think our problem would ever be that we're too cocky you know that is true uh yeah i think my thing is i'm a pretty big rule follower. Yeah, that should actually be the caveat for both of us. We are super rule followers. Which is exactly what you say if you're a murderer. Oh, Caitlin Johnson wants to know, favorite trashy reality TV shows?

I have a really hard time with reality shows. So my favorite are like the old school ones. used to love the real world watch that and then the challenge is still around which has people from reality shows that i don't fucking watch now so i don't know hardly anybody else on it anymore but i love the challenge okay brandy did you ever watch flavor of love back in the day oh yes okay fuck yeah i watched that okay well you know we've discussed how i'm dumb now thanks to these medications it's not because i'm i've always been dumb on hulu now they've got flavor of love i never watched it back in the day but norman watched it and loved it and so we have been watching season one of flavor of love together and man it is entertaining is new york

on there oh yeah she is oh she's not there to make friends brandy that's right okay i don't mean to brag to you but i think i've gotten quite good at figuring out which of the ladies flav is going to send packing. How old is that show? I mean, it's very old. Yeah. Didn't it come out in like 06 or something? I think it probably did.

I mean, you would not believe it. So it's just funny to watch reality TV from that era. The lighting is bad. Everyone could use a shower it was like no one realized that this would be you know broadcast everywhere and then like one of the dates he took them on was to a roller skating rink and so norman and i were sitting there and i was like wow the production and budget for this show i mean renting out that whole roller skating rink and norman goes oh i bet it wasn't that expensive it's like bitch i was being sarcastic a roller skater oh no follow-up questions asks have you gotten into any silly arguments while spending more time with your significant other during quarantine? OK, this is so dumb.

What? This is so dumb. OK, so David has what I like to call fake news. What are you talking about? Because they're always like at least semi hard. Maybe he's just a little turned on. There's never a time when he's like, what? He's just a little turned on all the time.

Well, so like there's never a time that they're not just like at least somewhat visible. And so when we sit on the couch, we sit like in one of two ways either like i'll sit and leave we have like a sectional and i'll sit like in the corner and then i'll put my feet on him or i'll sit like next to him and so when i sit with my feet on him he rubs my feet for me a lot like it's really it's a sweet thing and whatever listen i'm already about to vomit you can't be saying that to me so then like but occasionally he'll like do this one specific like where he it looks like he's gonna rub it but he actually like tickles it and i'm and so like i like kick him a little bit and i'm like knock it off so anyway and so i've asked him to stop doing that because

it tickles my feet are ticklish if you tickle them yeah so when i sit next to him on the couch, I like to flick his fake nipples. What? Yeah. And so just recently he was like, stop doing that. And I was like, does that really bother you? And he's like,

yes, of course it bothers him to be relaxing in his home and have his nipples flicked. What kind of question is that? Does that really bother you? I'm sorry. I felt like this is the? Does that really bother you? And I'm like, I'm sorry. I just felt like this is the first time that he got, like, assertive about it. And I was like, oh, I didn't realize that it really bothered you.

He's like, yes, it tickles. You know, when I rub your feet and you say it tickles, I stop. And I was like, okay, I'm sorry. So I told him I wouldn't flick his nipple anymore. I am 100% Team David on this one. I don't think he should have even had to bring it up. Okay, this is not a dumb argument because obviously, I mean, hey, here's, you know, the good thing about getting a tumor is that, you know, no one's going to argue with you

or like, you know, tell you you're annoying if you've got a tumor. That's what I've discovered. So that's all done. But like yesterday, this is totally off topic. Yesterday we were in the car, we were driving to the first appointment and I was really scared. Like crying, well, trying not to cry, but really freaked out. And so Norman's like, you know know kind of trying to keep the conversation

light you know just you know whatever so then all of a sudden like kind of out of nowhere he goes he goes you know i think it's i think it's really cool that um you know that rule about how like if you call up a pizza place and you're experiencing domestic violence, you just have to order like a pepperoni pizza and they send someone to help you. And he said, I don't think that's it. I don't think that's the thing. That's not how that works. Nart. Got the details a little scrambled there. I mean, it was just one of those things where, like, I was so sad. And then it went from so sad to, like, laughing so hard. And, you know, what he meant was, obviously, if you're experiencing domestic violence and you call 911, like, you know, you pretend you're ordering a pizza.

But it just, like, killed me. Everybody's a pizza. They just like kill me. Everybody's ordering pizza and they're sending out police. As if like, oh yeah, Pizza Hut is fully equipped to make you a pizza, but also save you from a really violent situation. Those guys can do it all. Oh my God, i about died oh anna fay wants to know brandy where are you and david going on your honeymoon will kristin and norm be be accompanying you we better we actually did talk about like doing a couple's like all inclusive like Mexico thing. I think that'd be awesome. We have planned nothing at all yet.

So TBD. But I do love the idea. I think that'd be so fun. Yeah, we're planning to be in bed with you guys in the honeymoon suite. Yeah, yeah. Separate rooms. No, don't, Brandi. It's my special day.

It's my special day. How dare you? Let's see. Do you want to do more or what are you thinking yeah let's do like one or two more we'll wrap it up okay maggie wants to know if you were giving advice to someone starting a podcast what would your biggest suggestion be invest in good audio equipment yeah yeah 100 yeah so you want to get good good equipment and you know do your best with the audio editing find a subject that is interesting to you be authentic yes you it has to be interested

to you be interesting to you because you are going to have to know more about it than you ever thought you would. I also think people sometimes like they try to and I get why they do this, but they're like they focus too much on like what they think will be popular and try to like mold themselves to that. But I think it's so much easier, first of all, if you're just authentic. And I think it'll it'll get more people to you that way. Oh, also, fucking start. Yeah, do it. That's my advice. You know what? We sometimes get emails from people with this question.

And I always answer them. But, like, a lot of the time, and I kind of wonder if, like, this is the thing that a lot of women do. It's like, we plan, plan, plan, we prepare, we prepare, we prepare, we, we do all of this work, you know, to like, lay the groundwork, make sure we're doing everything perfectly. And the thing about it is that when you do all that, sometimes you don't actually ever start it. is that when you do all that, sometimes you don't actually ever start it. And so the thing I'm grateful for that we did is,

you know, we obviously, we did a lot of that kind of bullshit too. But eventually you just have to put an episode out there and it's not going to be perfect at all, but you're going to learn from it and you're going to be glad that you started. Yeah. Unless you've got some you know white supremacist podcast and then you know you'll yeah you'll have a lot of regrets yeah so many

regrets um yeah i remember when we put out our first episodes like we were really proud of them and we were like yes look at this thing we're doing and now we we're like we find them very cringy but you just have to start yeah okay one more question oh elaine steph has a question for you i'm kind of curious about it with true crime being such a big part of your life because of the podcast have you thought about how that will be a part of london's childhood do you think exposing children to true crime is a big no-no? Just a little? Curious what your take on this is. Yeah, no, I don't have any problem with her being exposed to it. I was exposed at a very young age. Like, I read my first true crime book at like 10 or something like that.

So, no. But look at the freak you turned out to be. Well, that's true. I did turn into a bit of a freak. No, I don't think that i'll censor much from her obviously i find it very interesting and i think it's you know there's that aspect of it too but i also think it helps you be aware of your surroundings and aware of the world around you and more more vigilant to your own safety too so i think it's kind of important

you know i um i think also it totally depends on like what kind of true crime we're talking about here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Because some of it's super scary and disturbing and everything. But some of my favorite memories are in late elementary school, my whole family, we'd go into my parents' room and we'd watch Dateline. And oh, man. Loved it.

And you know, I don't know. dateline's a good gateway drug into true crime don't you think yeah absolutely keith morrison leading you in holding your hand i'm hoping that i can get like a like a lullaby machine that will just be Keith Morrison's voice. You'll have to settle for me. All right, should we do some Supreme Court inductions? Yes, we should. And of course, I don't have it fucking open. Sorry. My goodness. Hold on.

Okay, guys, you know how to get into the Supreme Court. We probably don't have to tell you. Just sign up at the $7. Well, here I am. I can't stop this train. Here we go. Choo-choo. Wow. You just said, don't have to tell you. Just sign up at the $7. Well, here I am. I can't stop this train. Here we go. Choo-choo. Wow.

You just said, don't have to tell you, and here you are telling them. $7 level on Patreon. That's how you do it. This week, we are doing your name and your favorite book. Woo, we're mixing it up. Trinity House. The Giver series. Carson LaRue.

Harry Potter Susan Lolita Marissa Jo The Princess Bride Bee Strails The Wind-Up Girl Taylor Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Lisa Davis To Kill a Mockingbird Chloe Martin Altered Carbon Laura Wilson Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Lisa Davis. To Kill a Mockingbird. Chloe Martin. Altered Carbon. Laura Wilson. The Hunger Games. Jasmine Waugh.

And Then There Were None. Ooh, that's a good one. Alex Bobalix. A Great and Terrible Beauty, which is apparently a trilogy, and I'm sorry that I stuttered like that. We can't take it, and I'm sorry that I stuttered like that. We can't take it again. I'm sorry. We've run out of tape. Welcome to the Supreme Court.

Oh, my gosh. We're so glad to have you. Oh, that sounded very sincere, Brandi. It was. It was. Okay. It was. Okay. All right.

Very good. Welcoming into the warm bosom of our Supreme Court. What's it smell like? I don't know. Lavender? I always spray perfume between my boobs. You do? Yeah, we should probably cut that.

That's probably like way too much information i mean you talked about a transvaginal ultrasound on this well and i basically opened the episode by farting so maybe we leave it i think it's probably fine that's where i draw the line thank you guys for all of your support yeah yeah thank you to everybody for your support and also a big thank you to all the frontline people all the people who have been deemed essential but are not being paid adequately you know god fuck capitalism anyway here we go guys if you're looking for other ways to support us wow if you're looking for other ways to support us wow if you're looking for other ways to support us please find us on social media we're on twitter facebook instagram reddit patreon all of those places plus if you can please subscribe to the podcast

wherever you listen that would be great that helps out a lot and then head on over to apple podcast leave us a rating leave us a review and then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics podcast adjourned and now for a note about our process i read a bunch of stuff then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary and i copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from an article by David Whitfield for the Nottingham Post. Oh, no, no. I'm just over.

Back up. I got my info from an article by David Whitfield for the Nottingham Post, the York Post, Murderpedia and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit LGTC podcast dot com. Any errors are, of course, ours. But please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.