Let's Go To Court! - 122: Fruitcakes & an Obsessed Girlfriend

Episode Date: May 20, 2020

The Collin Street Bakery makes one hell of a fruitcake. For more than 100 years, the bakery has shipped their fruitcakes to everyone from Grace Kelly to Vanna White. In fact, the small-town bakery is such a big deal that Corsicana, Texas, is known as the fruitcake capital of the world. So when Sandy Jenkins landed a job as a payroll supervisor at the bakery, he and his wife Kay were ecstatic. But the glow wore off pretty quickly. He worked hard. He thought his pay rate was low. Too low. But as his role with the bakery grew, so did his access to the bakery’s money. So in December of 2004, he decided to help himself to some cash. Then Brandi tells us about a strange 911 call. It was October 12, 2012, when Shayna Hubers called 911. She’d just shot her boyfriend, attorney Ryan Poston. She told the dispatcher that she’d done so in self defense. Ryan had been violent with her, she said. He’d knocked her around and pushed her into a bookcase. The evidence told a different story. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Just Desserts” by Katy Vine for Texas Monthly “Former Collin Street Bakery Executive and Wife Sentenced,” FBI.gov “Sandy Jenkins gets 10 years prison; probation for wife Kay,” Corsicana Daily Sun “A tale of trust betrayed at landmark Corsicana bakery,” by Barry Shlachter for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Obsessed” episode 48 Hours “Shayna Hubers” episode Snapped “Murder of Ryan Poston” wikipedia.org

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about fruitcakes. And I'll be talking about an obsessed girlfriend. Oh, I'm excited for yours.

Is yours one of those where it's like, yeah, my ex-girlfriend, she's crazy, but it turns out she's just a normal woman and he's a dick? Hmm. No, it's not that. But there are questions. Okay. Okay.

I'll hold my questions. There are lots of questions involved in this case. All right. All right. I'll hold them until I hear more. How you doing? You know. You know. You know.

Hanging in there. Hanging in there by a tumor, as they say. I don't think anyone says that. That's a saying. No. So good news is I have my surgery scheduled for next Monday. So that is like, oh, that's such good news. Yeah. It's excellent. By the way, I saw someone complaining on Twitter about how like, you know, I know that elective surgeries are how

hospitals are making their money these days, but people really need to like get a clue and not go in for blah, blah. And I, I held myself back only because someone else responded and was like, hey, just so you know, elective surgeries, it's not all boob jobs and nose jobs, okay? Like, it's also hip replacements and knee replacements. And, like, I'm very, very fortunate because they discovered this tumor. And, by the way, if you skip last week's episode, I talk all about my exciting tumor, and boy, is it a good time. But they discovered a tumor right by my right ovary. Like, I think it was a week and a half ago, but it feels like 12 years ago. And the deal is that the OR like just

opened. And so everyone who I assume has been in the same boat with me. We're all just kind of like white knuckling through some pain and some shit and just waiting for ORs to open. But yeah, it's been a weird, not weird, weird's not the right word. It's been a scary feeling knowing that like, oh, okay, if this thing explodes in my insides, then that would be emergency surgery. If this thing like pushes on my ovary and turns it around and cuts off blood flow then that's an emergency. But like just being in pain. Just the fact that it's there isn't, yeah.

Yeah, being in pain and feeling like you've got to vomit all the time. Not an emergency. Not an emergency apparently. Oh, but I'm really, I never thought I'd say this but i'm so excited for surgery yes how do we segue this into um a plug for our patreon oh shit i don't know goodness gracious hey i was impressed with our episode last week about how we

segued from tumor talk to an ad spot so okay well how about this how about this here we go here we go hey and they mentioned that in the discord oh oh what the hell's a discord discord is something that you can get access to just by joining our Patreon. You guys, I don't ask for much, but I am on my deathbed right now. Okay. And my request, my dying wish, is that you all join the Patreon at the $7 level, if I may. I don't make deathbed requests often because, you know, it can only happen so often. But yet, here I sit at the $7 level.

You get a monthly video. Those are really fun. You get monthly bonus episodes. I think we're on 10 right now. 10? That's correct. Count them 10. Count them 10.

You also get into the Discord where we chit chat. And that has been really fun and supportive lately. I really appreciate it. I had no idea how many people go through terrible lady troubles. Yeah. Yeah. I need a magician to just saw me in half so I can leave the lower half, you know, elsewhere and just operate with the functioning top half. But anyway, it's a ton of fun. If you want to support the show, we would really appreciate it by the way i'm not on my deathbed you know unless i'm dead next week because of this surgery i don't

know who knows my mom told me it wasn't funny to joke about oh no oh well oh well can't help how i was raised with terrible sense of humor terrible dark humor okay Brandy I'm going first right yeah yeah you're first get it together what do you got a tumor wow oh my gosh the insensitivity on this podcast my gosh I don't like the loud laughing one the other one seems great. That's my review of this podcast. The other one seems great. Okay, so guys, the deal is there's not a lot of court stuff in this case, but I have a tumor, so you can't say anything and you can't complain. Huge shout out. Just real quick, are we going to put like a limit on when you get to stop using the tumor as an excuse? Or is that just like forever now? No, no, there will be a limit. I'm not a monster. I'm just checking. Although this tumor may look

like a monster. Hair and teeth. Okay. Okay. Serious question. Yeah. I want to look at the tumor okay so is it weird to ask if i can see it after they take it out uh no brandy i don't know they'll actually let you see it but they might let you see a picture of it okay um i mean i kind of want it in a jar i wanted to i wanted to see my thyroid but i forgot to ask and so i never got to because my when i had my thyroid removed it was like But I forgot to ask. And so I never got to because my when I had my thyroid removed, it was like gigantic. So I wanted to see what it looked like. But how big is a thyroid supposed to be? Walnut sized? How big was yours? Bigger than a softball? Oh, wow. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, that's that's the dark secret. If this thing has like teeth and hair and stuff, I've got a picture in my mind, but I'd kind of like to see it. Yeah. So full disclosure, I Googled it to see what it looked like, to see if it was appropriate to put in a graphic for our social media.

I haven't done it. Okay, hang on. I nearly vomited. I nearly vomited, Kristen. Okay. Okay. Dermoid ovarian cyst. Okay, here we go. Kristen. Okay. Okay. Dermamoid ovarian cyst. Okay.

Here we go. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That is disgusting. It's disgusting. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I told you I almost vomited.

Oh, my God. I almost vomited. I would like a cute little cartoon version. Brandy. Oh, my God. I would like a cute little cartoon version. Brandy. Oh, my God. Holy shit. I already feel like I'm always going to vomit. That was terrible.

That was like looking at a bird's nest kind of, wasn't it? It's disgusting. Oh, that was disgusting. Maybe I don't want to see it. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Jesus Christ, Superstar. that was disgusting yes well okay

that's what i've got in me that's what's causing me all this bullshit but no okay so to answer the question how long i'm going to be milking this tumor. All right. So they say recovery can take a while. They're saying, you know, like two weeks, you're kind of flat on your ass. And then, you know, just kind of depends. So like, you know, maybe I'll maybe I'll milk it for longer. Be like, oh, I'm still in pain. You know, who knows? There are no rules when you've got a tumor.

I've discovered. Good. Do you know this story that I'm about to tell you? No. I saw someone shared it in our discord. And then I intentionally did not read it because I knew you'd take it. Okay. Yeah, you you saw the fluffy fun nature of it. And you were like, no one's family gets murdered in this one. So this is not for me. Exactly. Okay. So first of all, a huge shout out to Katie Vine for her fantastic article in Texas Monthly. It's called Just Desserts. It is amazing. I highly, highly recommend you go read this because I'm giving you guys kind of like the highlights. But Katie's article, she interviewed a bunch of people anonymously, which I'm normally not into. But the fun thing about it is when you get people in a small southern town to talk anonymously about their

neighbors, they say some funny shit. So, you know, I'm just telling you, it's a great article. Also, hat tip to Split Pea in the discord for suggesting this case here we go very good brandy yes do you recall a little netflix docuseries called cheer sure do you told me all about it and then you told me you had watched it and it had been out for one day when you told me about it and so i did go back and watch it and I loved it as well. But you had a very strong liking to it. First of all, I love cheerleading. I love cheerleading.

No, I was never a cheerleader. No, I have no talent for it. I just like I think cheerleading is so cool. And so the Netflix algorithm, they've got me figured out because it was recommended to me. I think the second it dropped, I watched it immediately. And then yeah, I remember you were like, how the hell did you watch that show and know to recommend it to me on the day it came out? I'm a champion, Brandy, that's why. So anyway, do you recall that Navarro College, which is the focus of that docuseries, is

located in a little town called Corsicana, Texas? Sure do. Do you recall? Yes. Okay, guys, here's the deal. Corsicana is known for two things, cheerleading and fruitcakes. for two things, cheerleading and fruitcakes. And today I'm here to talk to you about a huge ass scandal that took place at the Collin Street Bakery in Corsicana, Texas, aka the fruitcake capital of the world. By the way, do you like fruitcakes? No. Are there people that like

fruitcake? Yeah, there's tons of people who like fruitcakes. No. Oh, I didn't mean to offend you, but my God. Okay, now hold the phone. When was the last time you had a fruitcake? Because, you know, sometimes you, you know, you, you're like, oh, I don't like that. And it turns out you had it once when you were three years old. Honestly, I don't know that I've ever even tried a fruitcake.

It looks like no interest to me. You know. It's just got chunks of shit in it. And I, yeah, I'm not interested. Brandy. What? You're like Bill O'Reilly when he says like a movie is terrible and anti-Christian. And then it turns out that he's not seen it, actually.

You're like Bill O'Reilly in every way. Those creepy voicemails. Don't say I'm like Bill O'Reilly in every way. That's terrible. Those voicemails you've left me, I don't appreciate it. You know, you're just going to have to masturbate on your own time, lady. Wow. So how did the Collin Street Bakery become internationally known for its fruitcakes? Okay, so the bakery opened one million years ago in 1896, and it was pretty popular.

By the early 1900s, celebrities were sighted at the bakery. And in 1914, when the Ringling Brothers Circus came to town, they stopped at the bakery. And they made this request that forever changed the Collin Street Bakery. They asked if they could send the bakery's fruitcakes as Christmas gifts to their friends all over the world. Despite what Brandy has said about fruitcakes, it seemed like the perfect gift. It was delicious, and unlike basically every other baked good, fruitcakes take, like, forever to go bad. So the Collins Street Bakery said yes,

and all of a sudden they found themselves in the mail order business. Do you eat fruitcake? You know, I feel like I had one, like, a million and I wasn't like super into it. Basically, what I've heard is they are really like, they're a lot of effort to make. And I'm kind of like, you know, if it's that much effort and I'm not like crazy about it, I'm not going to know yeah i don't know a lot of people are making their own fruit cakes are there okay kyla's mother-in-law rachel yeah she and like their whole extended family like when they get together for the holidays they make up a bunch of fruit cakes like it's their like fun thing they love them all right What? I have an idea. I'm not eating it.

Brandy, no, come on. No, bonus video idea. We order a deluxe fruitcake because, you know, they have different tiers. We order a deluxe fruitcake from the Collins Street Bakery. We have it delivered. And when all this, you know, I mean, horribleness hopefully ends, then as a bonus video for the Patreon, we eat the fruitcake. I'd do that. Oh, wow. What a brave little soldier.

I've got another idea for a bonus video. What? We each take a bite of my tumor. No! God! You stop that. Brandy, have you ever eaten a tumor before? No, I have not.

Well, then you're being prejudiced. Oh, my gosh. I'll give you the hairiest bite. Now, question. If I get a bite with a tooth in it, do I get to spit the tooth out? Oh, my. Stop. I cannot have this conversation.

I'm sorry. Okay. Oh my gosh. Why can't we get a Texas pecan cake? That sounds delicious. Are you on their website right now? Yes, I'm on their website. Okay, well, I wasn't going't gonna say this but my plan was because

see i don't think i'm gonna love the fruitcake either i figured we could order like two things you know so we could have the fruitcake try it and then also try some of the you know stuff that sounds a little more appealing yeah because we're gonna want to want eat something to kind of wash down that tumor. Stop it. Okay, I'm done. I'm done, I swear. Am I? No, probably not. But I will vomit right here on this podcast. Don't do it.

Don't. If you do it, I'll do it. Okay, okay. Back to the story. So the Collins Street Bakery said yes to the Ringling Brothers. And all of a sudden, they found themselves in the mail order business. Decades passed, and the business got bigger and bigger and bigger, and more and more people called in around the holidays to order fruitcakes that would be sent around the world.

It's to the point that now fruitcakes consist of 98% of their business. And every year, yeah, I mean, it's crazy. Every year they send out about one and a half million fruitcakes. Everyone from like, I heard that Hilton Hotels has a contract with them. Vanna White loves them. Princess Caroline loves them. You know, it's a big thing. These days, the bakery is run by a guy named bob mcnutt which is hilarious his family didn't start the bakery but his great great great grandfather i'm pretty sure i got the

right number of greats and some friends bought it from the original owners in 1946 so he's been in the business for a really long time and he he's very well liked. He's obviously super fucking rich, but he doesn't really flaunt it. He dresses nicely, but you know, he doesn't have like obnoxious labels on his clothes. And he flies on a private jet occasionally as you do. But he's not going to be like somebody who brags about that. He doesn't show it off, not his style. So people really like Bob McNutt, but one of his employees had a really hard time not envying him. And that employee was Sandy Jenkins.kins sandy jenkins sandy jenkins started out at the bakery in 1998 as an accounts payable slash like payroll supervisor person making 25 grand a year and

sandy was pretty awesome at his job when he started the bakery was using a man he's a dude yeah okay are you not familiar with male sandys i don't know that many male sandys now i'd say i know more female sandys yeah for sure um i think it's kind of a southern thing no okay i think i think it'd be really hard to be a dude named Sandy. Right? I think people would assume you were a woman when they hear your name. Yeah, and then they'd beat the shit out of you in elementary school because you weren't. Right? That would suck.

Would they call you Dandy Sandy or something like that? Yeah, yeah. I mean, the gay jokes would be a fly-in, right? Yeah, that's probably true. So the bakery was using this manual accounting system, but when Sandy got there... Just for the record, I've decided that we need to get the cherry fudge pecan cake from this bakery. Wait, is that why you've been so quiet this whole time? You've been, like, looking at cakes? Listen, it's not my fault.

Whose fault is it? Is it the tumor's fault? Because I'm blaming the tumor for a lot of things. It's the baby's fault for sure. Hey, between the baby and the tumor, we can basically get out of anything we don't want to do. Right? Exactly right. We is, we've unlocked a whole new superpower in life. So, you know, Sandy sees them using this outdated accounting system and he's like, hey guys, welcome to modern times. It's time we use this newfangled device called a computer. So he got them transitioned over to a computerized system. And two years later, he had a fancy new title, Corporate Controller.

And he had a thousand dollar antique reproduction desk put in his office and a Picasso print of a wiener dog, you know, like you do. What? Sandy was super reliable. He met his deadlines. He didn't make stupid errors. He was just playing good at his job. He met his deadlines. He didn't make stupid errors. He was just playing good at his job.

But he had a tough time in Corsicana because he had a taste for the finer things in life. And every day he encountered people who had so much more than he did. Like two Wiener Dog Picasso prints? Yeah. Just right next to each other. It didn't occur to him to get a different print, you know? So in the late 1800s, oil was discovered in Corsicana. And by the mid 1950s, Corsicana had the highest per capita income of any city in Texas, which means that nowadays you've got, you know, people who have low incomes, people who have middle class incomes, and then you've got these people who are super wealthy, super wealthy, and whose families have been like Corsicana royalty for generations. As a result, there were all these exclusive clubs

in Corsicana. There was supper club, which, you know, there were like a ton of supper clubs, but you know, you wanted to be in like the best supper club. And there was book club, but again, you wanted to be in the best one, like ones where like somebody has to die for you to get a place in there. And then there was the country club. And Sandy just desperately wanted in. But the truth was, Sandy and Kay didn't have a shot in hell at getting into any of these clubs. Yeah, they didn't have oil money. Or cattle money. Or fruitcake money.

You know? They didn't have jack shit. So Sandy and Kay were middle class. The only thing they had was Sandy's job at the bakery and Kay had like a little catering business. And then they did some volunteer work at the First Baptist Church where Sandy was a deacon and Kay helped prepare the food. But, you know, they weren't going to fit in with the VIPs in town. But, you know, they weren't going to fit in with the VIPs in town. And that's because people noticed that Kay didn't wear the right brand of flip flops.

What? That's a true thing. What? What's the right brand of flip flop? So I don't know what the right brand is, but I do know the wrong brand. What was she wearing? So she was wearing this brand and I had never never heard of it so i googled it they're called yellow box oh yeah i know yellow box they're like rhinestones and shit on them yeah yeah so apparently they're sold at belk which

is like a you know it's a department store i think you find them more in the south they're actually like expensive flippy floppies though though. Well, evidently not expensive enough, Brandy. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So I guess Kay wore these flip flops and she wore them in the winter, too, which I'm like, okay, I assume it stays pretty hot. I assume you can kind of get away with that. But anyway, people did not appreciate it.

They also noticed that she had never gotten her boobs done. No. And had never gotten a tummy tuck. And that she wore big shapeless dresses. So can't be friends with anybody like that. By the way, Brandy, if you could get a boob job, I think it would really take our friendship to the next level. To the next level. We'd be way better friends if I got a boob job, I think it would really take our friendship to the next level. To the next level? We'd be way better friends if I got a boob job.

So basically, and this is just, this is the weirdest thing. People generally liked Kay's personality. They thought she was kind of a hoot, but you know, she just like wasn't good enough. And then when it came to Sandy, they just thought he was lame as hell. Really? No personality? Poor Sandy. Don't worry. Oh, should I not feel bad for Sandy? No. Okay. Here's the thing. Well, we'll get more into it. Okay. So Sandy and Kay, despite this, they kept up appearances as best they could. Sandy and Kay had the nicest lawn in Corsicana, just beautiful. And every morning they drank their coffee out of fine china. Everything they had was nice.

They maintained everything they owned very well. Sandy drove a Lexus, which he liked, but you know, it was five years old. And, um, yeah, I know. nothing more tragic if you ask me that's right he loved watches and he had a rolex but you know he would have loved more watches and he'd love to shower k with jewels if he'd had his dream job he would have run like a really classy funeral home what but life just hadn't worked out that way that was his dream job yeah yeah so he really liked um he just liked things to be kind of people somber and classy and like super into dead people. I mean, maybe, but, but don't worry, this is a light case. So not that into it, but I guess he had, and I didn't write this down, but he had a relative who was in the funeral business and

he always thought that would be kind of cool to go into. And so when he was like, you know, kind of like, I assume late teens, 20s. He mentioned something to his dad about wanting to own a funeral business. And his dad was just like, no, too much risk. You know, you should get a business degree. So, I mean, Sandy just went into accounting. OK. And that was that. It wasn't his life's passion.

It wasn't what he wanted to do. But I guess he just kind of felt like his dreams had gotten shot down early in life. And, you know, the years go by and he finds himself 55 working as an accountant for the Collins Street Bakery, making 50 grand a year. All right. He felt invisible and he knew he was underpaid. invisible, and he knew he was underpaid. So one day in December of 2004, he decided to do something about it.

He stole some petty cash, and he didn't get caught. So then he stole a little more petty cash. Oh, oh no, Brandy. He like kicks it up a thousand notches. It starts embezzling. Brandy, buckle up is all I can say. All right, I'm ready. So, you know, he was kind of stunned that he didn't get caught.

It had been like so easy. So then he started thinking that he really wanted a new Lexus. And, you know, not even not even really a new Lexus. He wasn't greedy. He just wanted something new Lexus. And, you know, not even really a new Lexus. He wasn't greedy. He just wanted something new to him. So just a couple weeks after he stole the petty cash, he drove to Dallas. He traded in his Lexus as a down payment on a gold Lexus sedan with beautiful tan interior. Really?

Really? I know it doesn't sound. Gold and tan? That's the color combination you went with? I don't like it either. I don't like, this was 2004. I don't know if that was more in then, but I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan either. It kind of, I don't know what it reminds me of, but it's just like, like there's no contrast

in that. Yeah, exactly. it's just like, like there's no contrast in that. Yeah, exactly. It's just beige. Yeah. I'm trying to show how like with it I am and I'm just going all in on the beige. Yeah. I mean, it's just like if you got a white person naked in tandem a bit like that's your car. Sorry, that was a weird way of putting it.

It was a very weird way of putting it. You guys don't criticize me. I have a tumor. It was a very weird way of putting it. You guys don't criticize me. I have a tumor. So, you know, he gets in this beautiful car and he drove back to Corsicana in his new car, blasting Barbra Streisand the whole way home.

Wow. Solid music choice. You think so? Yeah. When he got home, Kay was like, what's with the new car? And he said that it was a gift from the Fishers. You know, he'd done some accounting work for them, and they were so grateful. That they got him a fucking car?

Tell me she did not believe that. So tells her this and he's like oh please don't mention this to them you know so sandy's loving his new wheels but then a few weeks later oopsies the first payment is due on the lexus what was a boy to do i'll tell you what the payment from the fruitcake company. That's exactly right. You're getting it. You're catching on real quick, Brandy. So he got into the Collins Street Bakery's accounting software,

and he wrote up a check for $20,000, payable to CityCard. Then he printed the check and voided it in the system. Then. Yep. But then he wrote another check for 20 grand, but this time he wrote it to a vendor that they did a lot of business with. He printed that check out, but never mailed it.

So it would, so everything would still balance right uh-huh and if you looked at it if you just kind of glanced at it everything would look legit what do you think um i mean you could probably get away with that for a short amount of time okay okay this is interesting how long do you think you could get away with it oh gosh um well it depends did they actually owe that company money because until that company is like hey because it was twenty thousand dollars and we haven't received it you could probably get away with it they did not owe that company twenty thousand dollars i don't believe but you know eventually they would probably owe them something like that because it's someone they do business with a ton yeah all right okay but i'm curious though how long do you think i don't i mean if he's the one that's in charge of the books he could get away with it

for quite a while i feel like so he's not the only person in accounting okay but he is the only one who can write checks like he you know he know, he has like the one computer, the one printer where like, you know, Bob McNutt's name is automatically signed onto these checks. He's the only one who can print them. He's the only one who can write them up. All right. Which is a perfect system if he's a good guy.

Yeah. Terrible system if he's not. Exactly. So this scheme worked. And it worked. And it worked. And it worked. He stole and stole and stole and stole.

This guy was the king of stealing. Someone would have to be paying pretty close attention to catch this kind of thing. And luckily for Sandy, no one paid much attention to him. Pretty soon, Sandy and Kay. So he's like Milton? Yeah, basically. He's basically Milton? But get this.

Okay, this story gets crazy fast. Anyway, okay. So sandy and k got whole new wardrobes sandy started showing up to work in 600 shirts and gucci shoes who the fuck's buying 600 shirts well it's not his money he's wasting no i get it do you get it brandy like if it was someone else's money, you wouldn't be like, oh, I couldn't possibly spend that on a shirt. So people would be like, oh, wow, nice shirt. And he'd be like, yeah, I got it at Walmart. What? They remodeled their kitchen. They joined the country club. They got themselves a wine cellar. Sandy bought a ton of high-end watches. He and Kay spent over a million dollars at Neiman Marcus.

Wow! A million dollars?! I believe the figure was 1.2 million dollars. Where does Kay think this money's coming from okay okay um depends who you ask if you ask me i think she knew everything i mean she may not have known like the exact way he was doing it yeah but um we'll get more into like what she knew and didn't know later but i think she i mean come the fuck on you're about to hear more about the lifestyle they led their neiman marcus money was nothing nothing okay okay they were at neiman mar Marcus so often that their personal shopper came up with nicknames for them. What were they?

She called Kay Cupcake and Sandy Fruitcake. Hmm. Hmm. Not that creative. You don't think so? Oh, yeah. I mean, you give the nickname Fruitcake to the guy who works at the fruitcake company? He's not that creative.

They started getting all these spa treatments, and Sandy started straightening his hair because he wanted it, and this is a quote from the article, smooth and thick like Bill Clinton's. Interesting. I mean, if I Google this guy, is he going to come up? Oh, yeah. Sandy Jenkins Jenkins for sure but like who has ever aspired to have Bill Clinton's hair I mean when I think about it I know that yeah I mean he does have good hair but like you're in the biz has anyone ever been like

hey give me the Bill Clinton no exactly okay are you looking at him now? Yeah, I'm looking at him. Yeah. So kind of a short squat little guy, you know. Okay. Don't read too much. I'm just looking at pictures. I'm not reading anything. Okay.

Don't make this like when you got on their website and all of a sudden you're wanting to order all the delicious stuff. We 100% have to do that video now, by the way. All right. I'm glad. Man, you were so against it at first. My goodness. What sold you?

Was it that chocolate fudgy the whale thing you were talking about? Yeah, I want that chocolate fudge pecan cake thing. Okay, that sounds amazing. Let's do it. There's also a salted caramel pecan cake, which sounds pretty good, too. Oh, my God. That's it. there's also a salted caramel pecan cake which sounds pretty good too oh my god that's it we're gonna blow all the patreon money on just a variety of cakes so all of a sudden sandy and k were the it couple everyone was coming to their parties

and everyone was getting on chartered flights with them to their new house in Santa Fe, which one article said it was like 700,000. Another one said it was like, you know, 600,000. At any rate, it was a grand old time. They were taking these flights on private jets all over the place. And you tell me Kay didn't know a thing? Bullshit. Well, yeah,'s where's everybody

thinking that money's coming from okay so a couple things they told people that they inherited money well sandy told people that he had a very rich cousin and this super rich cousin was the one who was like letting them, you know, borrow his plane or, you know, letting him borrow his cars, you know, all this bullshit, which again. If. I mean, Sandy and Kay had been married for, I think, like 30 years at this point. at this point. Can you imagine if your husband of 30 years was all of a sudden like, oh yeah, I've got a rich cousin who's now letting us fly on his private jet. I don't believe for a second that she thought that that was the case. Right. Right. But how did everyone else? Is that what you're wondering? Yeah. I'm also blown away by this. I have a theory, and my theory is that he was very generous with the money. So, you know, he'd...

So no one questioned too much? Well, you know, it's kind of like, gosh, somebody, you know, like he would have people over and like they'd have like the nicest food amazing wine you know they're taking people on their private jet to their house in santa fe and so it's kind of like well who cares where the money's coming from they say it's from a legit source i'm not questioning because i'm benefiting from it yeah that's just my personal theory yeah but you know not everyone was on these private jets with them so i don't i don't i don't. I don't get it. There's so much about this story that I do not understand at all. So you know, Sandy and Kay are living the life. And I think just my personal opinion, Sandy got a little ballsy. Because every now and then, you know, he'd want to buy some new jewelry for Kay.

But, you know, time, you know, we're all so busy these days. So sometimes he'd just have the jeweler and an armed guard come to the bakery, and Sandy would, like, make his selections at work. And where? What? With his embezzled money? were and where i'm what with his embezzled money yeah at the company he was stealing from he would have he would have the jeweler and an armed guard show up with i i assume a briefcase of jewels wow some dude had giant balls oh oh my. A literal quote from this article. They were talking about K, but I think it can apply to both of these folks. Balls of Godzilla is what they said. Yeah, this guy would also he would you know, he was obviously in these executive offices of this bakery.

And, you know, every now and then he just popped down to kind of the ground floor where they were, you know, just selling baked goods and he'd buy everybody lunch, you know? Yeah. So he was just like, he was flashy. Really great guy. Yeah. What a great guy. And honestly, I mean, I'm not better than that. If somebody bought me lunch, I'd be like, wow, amazing. I love him forever. Sandy is so nice. Sandy's the best. I know I've ignored him for like the last 10 years he's worked here, but he bought me a chicken salad. I just think he's a great guy. He also at one point, and this is the ballsiest of ballsiness, he went to Bob McNutt's office. And, you know, Bob and Sandy didn't have, like, some super buddy-buddy relationship. But Sandy starts bragging to Bob about his rich cousin.

I'm sorry, did you say to the Bob? Did I say the Bob? Better than the McNutt, you know. I'm sorry. Because he says bragging to the Bob. He brags to the Bob. And he's like, look, the Bob, I've got this rich cousin. And he lets me fly around on his private jet.

Yep, yep, yep. And, you know, then Sandy leaves. And Bob's kind of like, what a weird, like, obnoxious thing to brag about. You know, it just seemed kind of odd yeah so you know sandy and k they they are living like the best life ever and even though people probably should have been more suspicious it really doesn't seem like anyone was suspicious at all but things weren't going so great at the collin street bakery brandy imagine bob mcnutt was like what the hell where's all our money yes yes so he's like day to day it seems like we're

doing a ton of business and you know people love the new pecan cakes. But okay, I don't believe that they were necessarily losing money every year. But their profit margins just all of a sudden got really thin. And you know, for a while they blamed the economy. And then they were like, well, okay, that can't be it. We have to be doing something wrong. So they wondered, you know, was, that can't be it. We have to be doing something wrong. So they wondered, you know, was it a mistake to open up some brick and mortar stores? You know, maybe we shouldn't have done that. Maybe that's, you know, that was a mistake. Or maybe it had been a mistake to start the world's largest organic pineapple plantation in Costa Rica, which was something that they did.

And, yeah, maybe that was a risk who knows but i saw that their fruit cakes are made with hand-picked pineapple so i mean you know sets them apart from the other fruit cake competitors that's why they're the best in the biz brand so you know they're looking at all these things they're like you know maybe this is the reason maybe that's the reason but just to be safe they audited their payroll and they didn't find anything. They looked at their expenses, you know, were they spending too much? That didn't really seem to be it. Was it possible that someone was like, and okay, this is, this is kind of stupid, but they, they did wonder, like, was someone stealing ingredients? were they stealing fruit cakes they didn't look at if

they were actually stealing any money well okay i i do love katie vine this article because she was she threw a little bit of shade because by this point um i'll i'll get to how much sandy was stealing but he was stealing a shit ton and she was kind of like you know how many fruit cakes would you have to steal to make up for like a million dollars like come on no one's stealing that much and don't you think you would notice if you would notice if they had a trench coat full of fruit cakes you know every time they left the store but you know by this point sandy had been stealing from the bakery for years and he was kind of a pro he made sure to pull out money when expenses were super high so that it wouldn't raise eyebrows and it didn't obviously i mean they didn't didn't

even think to look into it okay there was one time and i didn't write this part down where he almost got caught and this is so infuriating okay so the bakery had a few little side businesses and so there was this woman who was kind of in charge of like promoting one of these side businesses and one day one of the executives comes up to her and he's like, hey, hey, hey, hey, buddy, friend, you've got to stop throwing so much money into promoting this side business. We're not making any money on it. You know, you just spent $23,000 on postage. You can't be doing that. And she was like, whoa, 23. She was like, excuse me? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. She was like twenty three thousand dollars on postage. I most certainly did not. There's no way I did that. But then, you know, Sandy, of course, offers to look into it.

And he's like, no, you know, that's what that's what it says. And so, I mean, it just sounds to me like they just didn't believe this woman. And if they had believed her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe things would have gone differently. But at any rate. Oh. By this point, Sandy and Kay owned a $58,000 Steinway, a $40,000 mattress. What? Yeah.

Did you know there was such a thing? No. That's not what I'm saying. What is that? Apparently, it's made of horse hair. Is that comfortable? I don't. I mean, I've only got the $30,000 mattress, so I don't know.

I got like a $2,000 memory foam. I thought that was like. We're in the money. Yeah. Norman and I got a Tempur-Pedic this year and we were like guess we're rich look how wealthy we are yeah i didn't even know you could buy a forty thousand dollar mattress okay this next one will also make you poop yourself they had a seven thousand two hundred dollar cell phone for what i like where do you even buy that i don't know a seven thousand dollar cell phone are you kidding me yeah what even is that i don't even know i

don't even know i mean i assume like he's super glued a bunch of diamonds to like an iPhone. I don't know. How do you, how does this happen? I have no idea. I've stumbled upon an article or a website of handmade horse hair beds that are $49,500. Well, you must have stumbled upon the right place. I mean, that seems like, you know, inflation. Yeah, that's probably exactly right. Each one takes 150 to 160 hours to build by hand. Oh, my.

And is custom made according to each customer's specific wishes. Well, I would hope so. I mean, for 40 grand, it better not be you get what you get and you don't throw a fit, right? Yeah. you get what you get and you don't throw a fit right yeah each bed carries a personalized brass plaque signed by the master craftsman who made it wow wow yeah what i wouldn't give for that brass plaque this is the weirdest thing that i didn't even know existed. Okay. Oh, they got a sale going on 20% off. Oh, good. Hey, bonus video idea.

We buy one of those mattresses and, you know, just fall asleep on it. People watch us sleep. We got to act quickly while this thing's still on sale. That's right. Gotta get that 20% off. So, you know, by this point, Sandy and Kate, they've quit

the First Baptist Church. You know, they're too good for that now. Now they're popping Cristal and Dom Perignon. Dom Perignon. How do you say that? Dom Perignon. I drink it all the time. Clearly. They're spooning caviar into their mouths. The article even said what kind, but like, you know, I don't know what kind's good, what kind's bad. I just know caviar equals fancy. Expensive, yes. And, you know, they were very graciously giving money to charity, Brandy.

They gave to Navarro College. They gave to Navarro College. They gave to the Santa Fe Opera and the local theater. And let me tell you, when Bob McNutt was at these same fundraisers, Sandy got a bit of a kick out of outspending Bob with Bob's own money. With Bob's money? Yeah. Is that not the shittiest thing? Yes.

Are you ready for me to tell you how much he stole? Yeah. Do you have a guess? Well, it's got to be in the, I don't know, like 10 million. Okay, not a bad guess. Well, I mean, he spent a million at Neiman Marcus, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

And then he's also chartering jets and buying $50,000 mattresses. So, yeah, I think it's got to be like 10 mil. Okay. So he stole, over the course of eight years, $114,000 in cash, more than $16 million in checks. Holy shit. Can you believe that? I think it was something like $16.6 million in checks. And how many fruitcakes?

You know, I don't blame them for thinking someone was walking out with the fruitcakes in their pockets, but that just was not his style. Sandy and Kay took 223 trips on private jets and they purchased 38 cars. Wow. Basically, they purchased a new vehicle every time their old one needed an oil change. Oh my gosh! Yep. Disposable cars? Basically, you know, they just like turn the old one in, get a new one, like you do.

Oh my gosh. I mean, yeah, if it's not your money, I mean... Exactly. Wow. Exactly. They were spending roughly $ 000 a month oh my gosh can you imagine i don't even know what you would spend 98 000 a month on well that's because we don't even know that 40 000 mattresses exist exactly you know it's like you've got to unlock a whole new level of living.

And then you're like, oh, 98 grand goes pretty fast. So they'd spent so much at Neiman Marcus that their personal shopper said that she'd run out of things to sell them. Wow. But here's the thing. Wow. But here's the thing. In December of 2011, the bakery hired this 30-something-year-old accountant named Symmetric Walker. As a new hire, Symmetric noticed fairly quickly that, like, sometimes the check numbers didn't really match up.

And so, you know, like a good employee, she went to Sandy and told him about the issue, and he was super reassuring. He was like, oh, this happens all the time. It's just a computer glitch. Uh-huh. Sure it is, Sandy. Here's the funny thing. And I think this is kind of brilliant. So, you know, he says it's a computer glitch. And so, of course, when it started happening again, I mean, it really did seem like, oh, gosh, maybe he was right. It was a computer glitch. This happens all the time. Yeah. But Symmetric, if I may, I think was the smartest employee at this whole fucking bakery. And maybe she should own the bakery now because she like she heard his excuse and she just was like, OK, but she kept an eye out. And sure enough, in June of 2013, after she'd been working at the bakery for like a year and a half, she discovered a $10,000 check made out to Capital One. And that really didn't make any sense at all, because the bakery like had nothing to do with Capital One. She's like, we don't have an account there.

You know, we don't do business. Why would we be writing out a check to Capital One? So Symmetric went to the only person at the Collins Street Bakery who was authorized to write checks, Sandy Jenkins. And she said, Sandy, there's a discrepancy with this check. Can you help me understand this? And Sandy went pale. Oh.

He was like fidgety. He started getting real weird. And he was like, oh, yeah, well, I wrote that check because we had to pay a bill to the post office. And I wanted to do it with a credit card because I didn't think a check would go through what and that doesn't make any sense and he's told all these amazing lies this whole time and he just folds see again I don't think his lies were that good I think people just wanted to believe them but here he is in this situation where like Symmetric has no like he hasn't given her anything. He hasn't bought her off.

So she's just listening to this story and she's like, that makes no sense. No sense. That makes no sense at all. And while they were having this conversation, Sandy printed out another check and was like, here, you know, the books are balanced now. OK, goodbye. Yeah. By this point symmetric was quietly freaking out sandy was acting like a total weirdo who was clearly up to something

and who knows maybe she was in danger because maybe she'd uncovered something big so she was like okay you know she played it cool she was like all right yeah i i got you sorry my bad i'm just gonna go back to my now. So she left Sandy's office and she started investigating. She started looking at all the checks that had been voided recently. And in that initial sweep, she discovered that $400,000 was missing. Wow. Another article had it like $200,000, but the bottom line is it's kind of funny because she sees this amount and she's like, oh my gosh, it's a huge amount of money.

Like little did she know, right? But so she was stunned. She didn't know what to do. So she went to lunch and she thought it over. She was scared because it seemed natural that she should tell Sandy's boss scott but scott and sandy were really good friends they hung out a ton maybe it wasn't safe to tell them yeah plus symmetric was still fairly new to the job and okay this is another thing. I don't know, like the racial makeup of the Collins Street Bakery executive offices, but I've done some Googling.

And if Symmetric is who I think she is, she's like this young black woman who had discovered this crazy embezzlement scheme from like this old rich white guy. And I assume she was dealing with a bunch of other old rich white guys so like the power imbalance was off she's this new employee and she's discovered something little does she know that has been going on for years yeah but you know over the course of that lunch she decided she had to do the right thing. She had to tell Scott. And luckily, when Symmetric got back to work, Sandy had taken the afternoon off to go look at real estate. So she told Scott, hey, I just discovered this huge embezzlement and now I'm afraid for my life. And so Scott told all the other VIPs and they told Bob McNutt and Bob McNutt said, well, that explains a lot. Yeah.

The next day, Sandy's goose was cooked. Oh, they confronted him. This guy was such such a shitty liar. So they go, did you write these checks? And he said, you you ready uh-huh i write the checks for the bakery oh god right you've had eight years dude dude you've been doing this for eight years you didn't think of like an excuse or like what you would say if they caught you oh my gosh uh this may surprise you but they fired him on the spot uh good did they

also call the police they sure did and the funny thing is so they called the police and the police start kind of looking into it and they're like oh boy we're in over our heads we need to call the fbi so the fbi got involved pretty quickly but meanwhile sandy like hauls back hauls ass back to his house i almost said hauls back ass to his house but you get the idea so once he got there he and k sprang into action they took two of those um you know like those insulated grocery bags from whole foods yeah okay so they take two of those they They fill them with jewelry, gold bars, watches. Gold bars? Oh, yeah.

You don't keep gold bars at your house? What the hell, Brandy? Next thing I know, you're going to tell me you've got a $2,000 mattress. I do, and I thought it was very fancy until I heard about this $50,000 mattress. So they've got these insulated bags with all this shit, plus $62,500 in cash. Okay. So they haul ass to Austin, Texas,

where their adult daughter was living. Apparently she's some big-time chef. I'm not including her name because I feel like, you know, she didn't do anything wrong. But anyway, road trip to Austin, let's eat at her restaurant. Okay. So they're like, please keep these grocery bags full of valuables. And so I assume like the daughter like puts them in a safe or something. And then Sandy and Kay hauled ass to their house in Santa Fe. But they were kind of like waiting for something to happen what could they do where could they go

they hadn't thought this far ahead yeah finally sandy went back to austin he grabbed pause christian you pause real quick sure david just pulled up okay tell me you can come in pause momentarily please pause hey you want to tell people hello hello hello hello poor David gosh yeah so like

the last time this when we ran later whenever he had to come home yeah I go in to tell him that we're done and he's like oh thank god I have to pee so bad I was like why didn't you pee he's trying, oh, thank God. I have to pee so bad. I was like, why didn't you pee? He's trying to be respectful. He's trying to be like good guy David. He is.

He's a really good guy. So to explain things to people. So I really thought I was feeling OK, not sleep deprived with this fucking tumor. No, today I woke up at almost noon. the reason I woke up was because Norman came upstairs to do a pulse check on you like he thought the tumor had won the battle so you know I I texted you and I was like hey could we delay recording a bit you're like sure so then we're getting ready to record and I got the fucking hiccups. I was like, oh, geez. So we're recording much later than usual because my body is beautiful yet problematic.

That's right. I would appreciate it if you said that more enthusiastically. So beautiful. So, God, oh, beautiful. I can't wait to have all my elective surgeries. You know, I'm going to get some implants. Have you heard? Okay. This is very intriguing to me. You know, obviously, we can't go for our beauty treatments anymore, which for me means that I've got roots that are a mile long. But the fancy ladies who get like the fillers and Botox, all of a sudden...

Yeah, their faces are melting off yeah their faces are now deflated balloons that's right imagine and i thought my toes were bad your toes are bad my toes are bad and i need a pedicure real real bad do you want to tell the people what you said about my toes you your toe you jerk your toenail polish has grown out so much you basically have french tips on your toes now which is true those i mean god bless us those of us who got gel pedicures before this whole thing went down i finally got mine to come off but i mean my god my god anyway shall i get back to this fruit yeah get back to the fruit cake okay so finally sandy went back to austin you know he this guy he just had no

clue what to do he grabbed those whole foods bags drove out to a lake in downtown austin and he just started like scattering 22 000 watches gold bars like all this stuff he just started like scattering it kind of in this secluded area but not really covering it very well and then i guess the plan there i have that i have no clue what the plan was. I assume he thought, oh, shit, you know, the jig is up. They're probably going to search my daughter's house for all these valuables. They're going to seize all of them. And so I guess he was like, I've got to hide them. But I mean, he really he did not do a good job hiding this stuff, obviously. Obviously.

And like at a certain point, he just gave up and chucked it all into the lake. Okay. Then he went back to Corsicana. Dude had no plan for when this all went down. It's kind of unbelievable, isn't it? Yes. But at the same time, I think it's also kind of unbelievable that he got away with it for as long as he did. same time i think it's also kind of unbelievable that he got away with it for as long as he did so maybe he was thinking gosh if i've stolen 16 million dollars from these people and they

haven't realized it yet do i need do i need a game plan for when this goes south maybe i mean someone who was interviewed for the article raised an interesting point he He was like, you know, he could have just taken a bunch of money and then like invested it in the stock market and like grown it to a certain point. I don't know. Yeah. There's a there's a million different ways this could have gone. But obviously the guy wanted a flashy lifestyle. Yeah, I'm sorry. I think I said fleshy lifestyle, which is disgusting. It's disgusting. I'm sorry. But it's probably not even close to the most disgusting thing I've said on this podcast today. This has been a gross episode. It's absolutely not.

It's absolutely not the grossest thing you've said on this podcast today. So then he goes back to Corsicana. By this point, it had been over a month since he'd been fired. And he went up to the house and discovered that, oh shit, the locks had been changed. Weird, imagine that. Yeah, imagine. So what did he do?

He broke into his own home. Excellent. P.S. I do not know where Kay was in all of this because five weeks after he was fired, Kay and Sandy separated and she later filed for divorce and the reason she listed was fraud okay k come on i i know i you knew what was going on the whole time i i agree i agree okay and you know what i'm gonna jump i going to jump down for a second because I included a separate thing about Kay because I wasn't really sure where to put it. But I'm going to talk about it now. Hang on. So Kay says she knew nothing.

Sandy says Kay knew nothing. Bullshit. But here's the thing. She knew enough to be weird about the money they had. Yep. And she knew enough to lie. So like, you know, at one point. I just don't buy that at all.

No, neither do I. Neither do I. So at one point she started wearing a $250,000 ring. Okay. Can you fucking imagine? She's wearing this honking ring. And at one point- And I only have a $249,000 ring. I know. And it is just terrible. It looks so cheap. So she's wearing this big honking ring and someone complimented her on it and was like, oh gosh you know when'd you get that where'd you get that you know blah blah blah and she's like oh oh this is just my engagement ring i've always had this no uh-huh and the person was like okay i remember when you guys used to be super poor and uh yeah you're telling me you've always had that? Okay. Okay.

Then one time when she got a new Lexus, she got super nervous because it arrived and it was midnight blue. But her old Lexus had been peacock blue and she didn't want people noticing that she had a new car. Well, okay. Okay. Yeah. a new car well okay so if okay yeah so if you're if you've got your money a legit way why would you be worried concerns would become exactly why would you be worried about people knowing that you've got this new ring or this new car or whatever nope you wouldn't it's all a lie kristen then apparently you know so all of a sudden they start hanging out with these fancier people or whatever at one point she freaked out some poor socialite because

she was like hey um what do you do when people ask you how you got your money oh my gosh yeah but i've saved fucking question exactly exactly And you know how rich people are. They don't want to discuss their money. They're like, oh, how dare you? Yeah. I've saved the best for last. Oh, good. What do you got laid on me?

I'm so ready. In an email Sandy sent to Kay, he said, remember, you never knew anything. Oh, good. I rest my case. Yeah. Well, I wasn't arguing with you, good. I rest my case. Yeah. Well, I wasn't arguing with you, Kristen. No, I know she wasn't. I just think this is just so ridiculous.

Yes. And get ready to be more annoyed, because here we go. Okay, so like I said, I'm not really sure whether Kay and Sandy were together at this point. It doesn't seem like they were. I don't know where she was. But at any rate, it didn't take long for the FBI to track them down. And of course, the prosecutor was like, hey, judge, we think there are for sure a flight risk. These people have money stashed away everywhere, apparently in a lake.

Can we make sure that there's no bail? And the judge was like sure thumbs up of course so are you ready to hear how the jewels were discovered that had been so expertly hidden yes apparently an off-duty officer in austin was just like at the lake i assume like getting some exercise or whatever and saw something shiny and was like, what the hell is that? And then discovered like these Rolexes and gold bars and jewelry and all kinds of stuff. And so then, you know, they had the dive team come out, you know, so it was discovered pretty quickly. The FBI began seizing assets. And this kills me because I really think you and I would

have driven down to Corsicana for this. There was an estate sale, Brandy, an estate sale. People lined up two hours ahead of time for this estate sale. And Bob McNutt showed up and he was handing out free baked goods to everyone in line i would have been there in a fucking second i know i know because i mean there was all kinds of crazy shit you could buy at discount prices we could have bought ourselves that mattress and all that so damn it sandy initially pled not guilty which buddy come on yeah it always shocks me when people do this when there's like a mountain of evidence but you know after a two-year investigation sandy and k both took plea deals sandy pled guilty to one count of mail fraud, one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering,

and one count of making a false statement to a financial institution, which I think is just rude, you know? Yeah. Kay pled guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering. So now we're at sentencing. What'd they get? Okay, first of all okay so he he

did this for eight years what do you think he got oh i don't have a fucking clue the financial crimes are sentenced very weirdly to me i totally agree i totally agree He was sentenced to 10 years in prison. Yeah. Kay, are you ready for this? Yeah. Five years of probation. Shut the fuck up. I know. I know.

Oh. But she also had to complete 100 hours of community service and- Oh, okay. Fair then. Yeah, fair. No! That's not how this is making any better! And she had to write a letter of apology to the bakery oh my goodness which you and i have talked about forced apologies before i mean like shove it up your butthole right i mean who cares yeah so obviously a lot of valuable assets were seized or sold off at the

best estate sale that's ever been. So the bakery was able to get some money back. But Kay and Sandy were ordered to pay more than $12 million in restitution for the bakery, which I'm sure the bakery will get any day now. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of interesting. So some people who were interviewed for the article were basically like, first of all, they thought that Sandy and Kay both got too little time, but especially for Kay, people were like, man, it's worth it. Steal $16 million and you get five years of probation. She lived it up

for eight years. Yes. Yes. And they were even saying like, even for Sandy, living it up for like eight years and you go away for 10 probably less with probation they were just kind of like you know doesn't seem like too bad a deal no if there's a lesson from this i think it's that white collar crime is where it's at white collar crime pays yeah don't sell pot you know god forbid you sell pot but like embezzle money from your employer you'll be be a OK in the end. Yeah, no shit. That is the message.

So when asked how it was possible that a business didn't notice that 16 million dollars had gone missing, the marketing. Bob McNutt said, I know, isn't that McNutt? OK. Yeah. isn't that McNutt? Okay. Yeah. No, the marketing chief said, Sandy was a friend, a trusted associate. We were operating a 117 year old business, much like it had always been run. It goes without saying, we've learned our lesson and made the necessary changes to safeguard us from this kind of thing in the future. But when this was going down, our suspicions fell on everything except our own people. We are obviously far better at making a

quality fruitcake than spotting a thief. That's good. So Sandy Jenkins died in March of last year in prison. And there are currently plans for a movie to be made about this story. It'll be. Wow, really? Yeah. So I think it sounds amazing. It'll be called Fruitcake. And Will Ferrell is playing Sandy Jenkins.

And Julianne Moore is playing Kay Jenkins. Excellent. And that's the story about Fruitcake. That was really good. I'm telling you, I read through it and I was like, God, there's not a lot of court stuff, but it's just such such a crazy story. And I just can't wrap my head around how he was able to do this. Yeah. I mean, I guess it seems pretty simple how he did it. But like, my God, how much money was that bakery bringing in that they didn't notice $16 million walked off? That's what I was going to say. Their sales have got to be astronomical.

Let's add to them. I really, I hope Symmetric, I hope she got the hugest promotion because she saved, who knows how much she saved them, you know? Yeah. Because Sandy sure as hell wasn't going to retire anytime soon. Can you imagine? No. Yeah. Kill that cash cow?

Absolutely not. Plus, you know, he's making 50 grand. Nothing to sneeze at. That's another mattress right there. Oh, my goodness. That was really good. I enjoyed that. Thank you.

All right. You want to talk about a girlfriend? I'm very excited for yours. Every now and then you really intrigue me with your intros. It's the whole goal. Uh-huh. Shout out to Chica Chibi on Twitter. Okay.

For this case recommendation. Most of this comes from two sources, an episode of 48 Hours and an episode of Snapped. All right. All right. Right off the bat, it's a little bit of a spoiler,

but you know, it is what it is. I mean, here's the thing. The fact that you're telling the story is a bit of a spoiler. Let's be honest. The fact that you're telling the story is a bit of a spoiler. Let's be honest. You mean you knew something terrible was going to happen? Yeah, yeah.

I've started to pick up a vibe. One day I'm going to do a case and it's going to be all build up where nothing happens. You'll hate that more than I will. I will hate it so much. Yeah, I was going to say that almost seems like a cruel joke on yourself. It would be. It would be more a joke on myself than anybody else. Okay.

It was October 12th, 2012, when a call came in to 911 from Highland Heights, Kentucky, which is essentially a suburb of Cincinnati. So it's like just over the river into Kentucky from Cincinnati. There's a Cincinnati, Kentucky? What? No, from Cincinnati, Ohio. Oh God, I'm so, I was so confused. Okay, so Kristen, I thought you'd pick right up on this because it's literally what we fucking have here. No, you're right. Where a river separates two states. Yes, yes. No, I'm totally with you now. And it's like one big metro area. I'm totally with you now. I was just like so...

Can we blame it on the tumor? I think it's the tumor. I think it's these meds. It's not that I'm stupid. Must be the tumor. Let's see. Okay. So, Kristen, I tell people that I live in a suburb of Kansas City.

Yes. But I live in Kansas, which is across the river from Missouri. Hey, Brandy. Yeah. How does it feel to be making fun of a very sick friend? Huh? Does that feel good to you? Does it?

It feels pretty good, actually. Wait till I'm just days away from surgery. Just, you know. Do you go up to like a little kitten and smack it around? Is that what you do, too? Make yourself feel real big and powerful? You know I would never do that, ever. Anyway, continue.

Anyway, okay. So, the caller was 21- old shana hubers and at first she seemed pretty frantic but was like doing her best to remain calm so here's some snippets from the 9-1-1 call the dispatcher you know answers hello 9-1-1 whatever and the caller shana says ma'am i killed my boyfriend in self-defense whoa and the dispatcher's like what did you kill him with and shana says a gun a loaded gun in the house admittedly she sounds pretty frantic on this call i've listened to the call many times now in researching this case brandy how many times so many times because i couldn't find a like, oh, God, what's

the word? A transcript of it. I literally had to like, yeah, okay. Yeah, that takes forever. Yeah. Yes. And so the dispatcher says, What did you kill him with? And she says, a gun, a loaded gun in the house. And the dispatcher says, Okay, tell me where the gun is right now. And Shana says, the gun is in the house. I laid it on the bookshelf. And the dispatcher says, OK, tell me where the gun is right now. And Shana says, the gun is in the house. I laid it on the bookshelf. And the dispatcher says, OK, where are you? And she says, I'm standing about 10 feet from his dead body. Oh.

And the dispatcher says, OK. She says dead body? Yes, from his dead body. And the dispatcher has a reaction much like you did. Are you sure that he's dead? And Shana goes, yes, he's dead, ma'am. He's completely dead. Yeah. Which that's an interesting distinction.

Completely dead. All right. I think it's a weird thing to say. Yeah. By far the least weird thing she says over this whole interview. Okay. Okay. So.

And so the dispatcher's like, okay. And how long ago did you shoot him? In the meantime, she's also gotten like address information and all of that. Yeah. Crews are on their way and whatever. But she says, okay, how long ago did you shoot him? And Shana goes, I don't know. 10, 15 minutes. Not even that long ago did you shoot him? And Shana goes, I don't know. 10, 15 minutes.

Not even that long ago. That's a long ass time to wait to call 911. Yeah. At this point, the dispatcher asks Shana to identify herself and lets her know that officers are on the way. She also informs her that when they get there, that she will need to follow their directions very closely. Obviously, they know that there are loaded weapons in the house at this point and she will need to comply with their orders um to get her out of the house safely essentially you know sure okay don't don't be come out holding a gun whatever don't be an idiot okay yeah exactly yeah so so shana confirms

that she understands but then her tone is she white a bit, she's white. She'll be fine. Exactly. So her tone changes a bit at this point. And she goes to the dispatcher. She goes, are they going to arrest me? And the dispatcher says, ma'am, I don't know what they're going to do. And Shana says, I mean, I'm not a murderer, ma'am. I just killed him in self-defense.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And the dispatcher says, okay, well, what happened exactly? And it was at this point that Shana told her first version of what had gone on in the apartment that evening. Shana said that she and her boyfriend, Ryan Poston, who was a 29-year-old attorney, they had argued that night and Ryan had broken up with her again. How old is she? She is 21.

Okay. Okay. Not a fan? Not a fan. Not a fan. Mm-hmm. He's 29, an attorney. He's well-established.

She's 21, I assume, maybe a student, maybe just graduated. She had just graduated. She actually graduated from college and was getting ready to start grad school, I believe, or had just started grad school. She actually she was very smart, graduated college, got her degree in three years instead of four. Like, nice, good student, whatever. Okay. Yeah. Where'd she go? Do you know? The University of Kentucky, I believe. Shoe size? I don't know. I'm sorry.

I was just like, I realized I threw a question at you that like, you know, would, you know, it'd take quite a lot to just know that off the top of your head. So I wanted to test you, Brandy. That's, and you failed. Yes. She had a degree in psychology from the university of kentucky i believe okay okay okay so she says that like they had been on again off again for you know a long time whatever and tonight she'd come over and he'd broken up with her officially and then they turned into

this big argument and she told the dispatcher that ryan had thrown her around the apartment he'd thrown her into a bookshelf He'd thrown her into a bookshelf. He'd thrown her into the back of the couch. And then when she had refused to leave his apartment, he had physically picked her up and removed her from the apartment. He either set her down in the hall or threw her into the hall, whatever. And once Shana was in the hall, she had demanded that Ryan let her back into the apartment so that she could get her things if they were really breaking up. Like she had, you know, her purse and whatever in there. Right. She tells the dispatcher at this point when she came back into the apartment that Ryan was standing in front of her holding a loaded gun.

And it was at that point that she pried it from his hand and shot him with it. Hmm. but she pried it from his hand and shot him with it. At this point, the dispatcher asked Shana if they had had like a history of domestic violence in their relationship. And I found Shana's response kind of odd. She just said, yeah, and then kind of like changed the subject quickly. Okay. And so the dispatcher then was like, okay, so are you in need of medical attention?

Are you hurt? And she said, no, I was only I was just thrown into the couch and stuff. I'm not I'm not injured. I was just really, really shaken up and very scared. But I'm uninjured. Dispatcher said, OK. And so at that point, the dispatcher turned her attention back to Ryan. And she says, ma'am, are you sure he's not breathing at all and at this point Shana full-on

breaks down crying like this is the most frantic she sounded on the call at all and she says do I have to touch him and the dispatcher's like no of course that's okay yeah and then Shana says kind of the first thing that seemed odd to the dispatcher i think she said a couple of odd things so far but that's my own personal take it wasn't until now that the dispatcher thought her response was odd because now she says something to the effect of ma'am he was twitching and i knew he was gonna die and he was making funny noises so i shot him a couple more times just to kill him and the dispatcher says i'm sorry you said you shot him a couple of more times yeah it seems like we graduated away from self-defense there uh-huh yeah and so the

dispatcher's like how many times did you shoot him total and she says i don't know it wasn't because i wanted to make sure he was dead i just didn't want him to lay there and twitch and so the dispatcher's like so you shot him instead of calling 9-1-1 and Shana says yeah I did because I knew he was going to die anyway Brandy I don't see why you think this is so weird first shot was clearly self-defense second shot was a mercy kill right isn't that isn't that the argument she's trying to make? I believe that's the argument she's trying to make. I don't know. But there's six shots all here in all, Kristen.

Good God. Good God. So at this point, the dispatcher let Shana know that the police were outside the door and that she needed to put the phone down and exit the apartment with her hands up, you know, follow all the instructions, whatever. And for the most part, Shana complied. She did make a bit of a scene as they checked her for weapons and took her into custody. She was like screaming and crying and talking about how she wasn't a murderer and it was

self-defense and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But ultimately, she did as she was instructed and police moved in to secure the scene. And they took Shana to the police station to get you know an official statement or start an interrogation whatever right upon entering the apartment the police very quickly located ryan's body and he was laying on the floor near the dining room table and shana was correct he was clearly dead he'd been shot six times in total a shot to the face oh there was a shot to the head and a shot to the back and then three additional shots but immediately the scene itself didn't match up with shana's version of what had happened that night the apartment was a

mess but it was a mess in the way of like a bachelor lives here and never cleans up after himself. Gross. Okay. Not in the way of like, hey, there's been a serious struggle tonight where someone has been thrown into a bookshelf and a couch and whatever. And people fought over a gun. So immediately investigators were like, okay, we need to know more about the relationship between Ryan Poston and Shana Hubers. As I mentioned, the two had been together for about 18 months at this part, but it was very on and off. They had met essentially through Facebook. So really?

Yeah. What year was this? Hold on. It's 2000. They met in 2011. Okay. Okay. So Shana was friends with Ryan's cousin on Facebook.

Okay. And Ryan and his cousin hung out a lot. They were good friends. And he saw pictures of Shana on Facebook because of that and asked his cousin, who was a girl, her name was Carissa, asked his cousin Carissa. I believe they went to school together. She went to school with Shana on Facebook because of that and asked his cousin, who was a girl. Her name was Carissa. Asked his cousin Carissa. I believe they went to school together. She went to school with Shana.

So they were acquaintances, but not like great friends or anything. Right. Asked if she would make an introduction between the two of them. Right. Even though at that point, Shana was 19 and Ryan was 28 and like already had opened his own law firm. Yeah, I'm not thrilled with that. Yeah, that's great. Not at all.

No, I think it's creepy. And so she did it. And like they initially things were pretty good. They hung out pretty regularly, but they lived like 80 miles from each other because Shana was going to school in Lexington, Kentucky, at the University of Kentucky, as I mentioned. And then Ryan was living essentially, you know, in the Cincinnati area. In Cincinnati, Kentucky, which is a place. Cincinnati, Kentucky.

Poor Cincinnati, Kentucky. It just doesn't have what the other Cincinnati has. You know, it doesn't have quite the pizzazz. So things were good at first, you know, they had a casual relationship. She came to his apartment on weekends and hung out and they went out to the bars and whatever. They went to the bars. I thought she was 19. Well, yeah, she is 19. She probably had a fake ID, I'm guessing. Okay, now that's your first red flag, dude. You shouldn't have to, like, sneak someone into bars. That's...

Right? Okay. Yeah. No joke. I mean, I don't want to be too harsh to him because he, you know, obviously died a horrible death. Obviously. But, yes. But I think there's definite problems here.

And, like, as this relationship continues, he knows that there are problems. Right. She becomes Super obsessive Anytime they have a fight or they Break up she like Goes crazy and she apparently Has had a history of this since high school According to friends that talked on

This 48 hours episode like anytime She broke up with a boyfriend the world was over You know whatever she Needed to get him back and whatever And so very similar behavior i mean it hadn't been that long since she'd been in high school yeah at this point yeah so yeah whenever they'd have a fight or break up she'd send him like 75 to 100 text messages while he's at work during the day jesus christ and he'd he'd let her send all these text messages and then

somewhere in there he'd say you know i'm not even gonna of these text messages. And then somewhere in there, he'd say, you know, I'm not even going to read these. Stop sending them. And then at another time, like, you know, they'd get back together. How terrified would you be if someone sent you 75 text messages? Yes! I would be freaking the hell out. To me, it just shows a vast difference in maturity level. I think, yes, you could see that behavior from a high school girl. To me, it just shows a vast difference in maturity level.

I think, yes, you could see that behavior from a high school girl. And when you're a 30-year-old man with a career in a law firm, yes, that behavior is very alarming. Yeah. But he continued to, according to his friends, the reason that he continued the relationship was that he didn't know how to let her down or or end things for real and so it was just easier to keep like letting her come back and like casually see her and apparently she was seeing other guys too but she was convinced that she was going to marry ryan Okay. So this happens. This is like a cycle. You know, this happens multiple times.

And at one point he told her that her behavior was reaching restraining order levels. Yeah. Like apparently as a lawyer, he looked into this to see, you know, if he could get a restraining order and he didn't meet the requirements why not because nothing violent had happened they didn't cohabitate Kentucky had very specific you know requirements that needed to be met in order for him to be able to get a restraining order and he didn't meet the requirements and so I okay I I don't mean this to be victim blaming. And I tell me if this comes off this way.

But so he did what he thought was the easier thing. I'll just let her, you know, be in my life from time to time. I'm sure he enjoyed very much sleeping with a 20 year old girl whenever he wanted to. But he didn't take the step and officially end everything and just be like, cut it off. This is it. I'm done. Well, it could also, in fairness to him, it could also be the safer thing. Because absolutely, you know, in an abusive relationship, the time you're in the most danger is when you leave. And so it could be that he sensed that, hey, if I break this off,

something horrible is going to happen to me. And so and I, I mean, that is an excellent point that I hadn't considered because that's exactly what happened. Yeah. Yeah. By all accounts, he ended things that night and she killed him. Yeah. People, you know, people get frustrated, you know, looking from the outside in at abusive relationships and like, you know, usually the thing people always say is why does she stay? Why does she stay?

But you know, women can abuse men too, because you know, it's the nineties. We can do what we want. No, but like, you know, people always say, why does she stay? Why does she stay? And you know, I think the thing is like you leave when it's safe to leave. And that's why so many people, you know, they break up, they get back together. They break up, get back together so many times. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. On this night, in fact, that he was like, he ended it officially. Like, that was it. This was done. Like, you're not welcome back at my place ever again. Shana had found out that he had a date that night with someone else. Miss Ohio, in fact.

Uh-oh. Miss Ohio. Yeah. And so it seems like that was the thing that really, like, set her over the edge. Okay, he's telling me it's over. He's telling me I have to leave his apartment. And he already has a date with someone else. So this is for real.

A beauty queen no less now that would suck that's right yeah that would suck so it seemed pretty cut and dry to investigators like this is what happened you know all that stuff that i just lined out like she knew that this was coming to an end and and she lost it and killed him but they needed to get her version obviously they had her 911 call but they had taken her down to the station that night and her behavior was just perfect super bizarre not at all what you would expect from someone who had killed her boyfriend in self-defense you know moments earlier so they bring her in and they sit her down in an interrogation room and they bring in like a

seasoned investigator in and he sits down with her and he's like you know get comfortable we're just gonna we're gonna talk for a little bit you know just you know calm down you know let's just let's just talk through this let's get some information going here and he's like what can i get you do you smoke and she's like i will if i can and he's like okay great he gets up the room to like go get her cigarettes and she makes noises as he's like turned his back to her like she's crying and then of course we know this whole thing is videotaped right the second he walks out of the room, it's done. Okay, that's weird. Yeah.

She completely turns it off. The investigator described it as like a light switch. The second that door closed and no one was in the room, she stopped the act completely. So he comes back in and he he Mirandized her at this point and was like, you know, this is the deal. You have rights. These are your rights. He gives her a form and she's like, yeah, I want an attorney. And he's like, OK, that's totally fine. I can't ask you any questions. So we'll stop talking. What I am going to do is I'm going to just fill out a little bit of a form here. I just need to get your personal information. And then if you could give me the information about your boyfriend, his name.

And so at some point she seems confused about what he's asking, which or who he's referring to. And so he says, what's his name? And she goes something to the effect of the man I killed tonight. Oh, wow. And he's like, yep, that, that's who I'm referring to. Was it because she was dating other people? She thought maybe he was talking about another boyfriend? I don't know.

But this investigator was so taken aback by that question. He was like, what the fuck? Yeah. That's a fair reaction. Yes. Yes. The man you killed tonight. That is who I'm referring to.

So at this point, he gets her to sign the form saying, you know, I want a lawyer or whatever. And so he's like, I'm not going to get to ask you any questions. But at this point, they don't really know what to do with her. They don't want to book her in yet. And so they know they need to get an attorney to her. But hours go by before all of that stuff can happen. And so they just have her sitting in this interrogation room. And throughout that time, they bring in different police officers just to sit with her. And she can't shut her fucking mouth. Hold on.

Hold on. And I'm sorry. Maybe I skipped this part. But I thought she said she wanted an attorney. What did I did? I just missed something. No, she wants an attorney. And they're like, great.

We'll get you an attorney before you ask you any questions. But they're not just going to release her at that No, she wants an attorney. And they're like, great, we'll get you an attorney before you ask you any questions. But they're not just going to release her at that point until she gets an attorney. And they have to arrange getting her an attorney. So there's a few hours that go by where she's just sitting in this interrogation room. Nobody's asking her any questions, but they do have an officer come in and sit with her. And each time an officer comes in and sits with her she tells them a different part of the story she will not shut her fucking mouth hmm it's not even that she's just talking about what happened like one of the officers that comes in and sits down she's like oh my gosh you

have amazing teeth did you have orthodontia that sounds like something you would say brandy not what i'm saying an interrogation room after murdering someone only one way to find out okay so she's just like rambling off all kinds of different stuff it ends up driving these police officers crazy they end up having to like tag out of the room because none of them wanted to be in there with her no they didn't they wanted to pick up the info really no and they keep telling her like you you know we're not asking you any questions she keeps just offering up information okay and now she tells a completely different story than what she told on the 911 call of course this story that she now tells to some random officer who's sitting in there at some point she says that they were arguing because ryan was breaking up with her

and he started insulting her and telling her that she was a hillbilly from kentucky oh and she got so pissed that he would insult her and insult her family that at that point, her love turned to hate in her words. And she grabbed a handgun off of the table. Oh, that's new. That he was sitting at. He was sitting at the kitchen table. She was standing. She grabbed the handgun off the table, turned off the safety and shot him. All because he called her a hillbilly

from Kentucky. Well, I mean, that was like the final straw. He'd also broken up with her and told her he had a date with a beauty queen and whatever. Okay. Okay. Really added up, huh? Yeah. All right. So over this, it's like a three hour period that she's in this room and she's just offering up little nuggets throughout this time to whoever will listen. She talks about how he threw her up against that bookshelf. They end up taking pictures of her for any marks, any bruising, any anything. She had nothing. There were no signs that she had had any kind of physical contact with him all that night.

Well, he threw her against the couch. Yeah, the couch. Yes, the bookshelf, whatever. And a bunch of pillows and a bounce house. Just a big pile of feathers. He pulled out that $40,000 mattress, threw her on that. Yeah, just terrible time. And then she's just like asking random questions, too. She asks one officer, what happens if I go to jail?

Do they let you shower there or do you just like get really dirty? And the officer's like, yeah, I mean, there's showers in jail. And she's like, would I have to shower with other people? Has she never seen a movie? The officer's like, probably. Oh, probably oh no no it's real nice it's like the four seasons you're gonna love it you won't want shower shoes at all yeah and then another point she asks if she would get to keep her phone if she got to go to jail. Oh, yeah, yeah. And they're like, and your computer and your wardrobe and really whatever you want. And you leave when you want and you come back when you want.

And whoops. Uh-huh. At one point, a female officer tags out and a male officer comes in and sits down. And she's like, what are you going to do with me? And the male officer is like, I don't know. They just told me to come in here and sit with you. and she's like what are you gonna do with me and the male officer is like i don't know they just told me to come in here and sit with you and she's like do you guys think i'm crazy and she like starts laughing oh god and then she talks more about how she shot him she said you know

she's talking shit about ryan at this point about how he was super vain and all he cared about was how he looked and his appearance and whatever and how the last good conversation they had before the relationship broke down he talked about how he wanted a nose job and so she shot him in the face right in his nose she gave him that nose job he'd been wanting whoa no no no she does like this little smirk afterwards okay she's officially lost me uh-huh officially lost me because the thing is like even if she was experiencing abuse in that relationship even if she let's say she was the victim in that relationship yeah if you shot the guy you'd still be shaken up you know yes still you still wouldn't be like casual and talking shit right i mean that doesn't seem yes i know it's dangerous when we get down

the slippery slope of like this is how you should act when a bad thing happens i agree but that seems really weird and i will just say that it seems that there it's very late in the game and we'll get there before anybody can even attempt to corroborate any of her claims of abuse. OK. So it doesn't seem that it was present in this. OK. And again, let's say that false claims of abuse are extremely rare. Yeah. Yeah. Blanket statement like, yes, that's extremely rare. And no one will know statement. Like, yes, that's extremely rare. And no one will know for sure in this case, obviously. But it doesn't seem that it was present.

Yeah. It's just a claim she's making. Yeah. I'm just going to go out on a limb and say it doesn't seem very victim-y to be like, hmm, I guess I gave him that nose job. I guess I gave him that nose job. Yeah. Yeah.

But the story just evolves this whole time that she's in this room she's changing little facts you know whatever adding little bits of information here peppering in little details that didn't previously weren't there and so finally like all these police officers get tired of sitting with her because she won't shut up and so they leave her just leave her alone i mean do they have to so they do they do for a little bit they leave her in a room by herself for a while i don't know what if there's like specific rules about how long someone can be left in there unattended but while no one is in there with her she stands up and she starts like pirouetting around the room and singing Amazing Grace. And then she says, I did it. I really did it.

Oh, God, this is so weird. And then at another point, she says, I am such a good actress. For real? For real. For real. This sounds made up yeah okay so finally they decide that they're going to be arresting her and charging her with murder gee and so surprising because she's such a good actress you know yeah finally the original detective comes in the room and he's like okay shana here's what's gonna happen now i'm gonna arrest you and charge you with murder and her response is what degree

do you think that's weird i think that's super fucking weird i mean i guess it all depends maybe that would be a question i would ask i don't know i can't i don't know and so but in kentucky apparently there's not it's just murder you're not charged with different degrees it's just murder okay and that's what he tells her she's arrested she's officially charged they start looking more into her versions of the stories. And one thing that they can tell for sure is that her claims of being thrown into the bookcase could not possibly be true. Because Ryan had a lot of guns in the house. He was very into guns. But on a display on the bookshelf is like different sizes of bullets.

Oh, so they would have stacked on end yeah and they were all standing perfectly straight up like he always displayed them yeah they had not fallen over yeah so they move forward towards trial and there's this bond hearing that takes place the defense wants her bond lowered initially she was held on like $2 million bond. And the defense wants this bond lowered. And the prosecution wants the bond conditions removed completely. They want no bond for her. And the defense argues that this is unconstitutional, that you must have some sort of bond, which I don't know where they landed on on that particular argument. But so they do this hearing. And this is the first time that shana herself actually gets on the stand and gives some testimony about this

and she talks about you know what she went through that night and why she why she made the decision she made and blah blah and this is the first time that they lay out actual evidence in court about what the scene tells them first of, they talk about that bookshelf, how the bullets remained on end. So there's no way that version of the story was true. They talk about how Shana had claimed that she'd been picked up and thrown around and hit and all of this that night, but she showed no physical signs of any of that. They bring in Ryan's downstairs neighbors. Oh. To testify. And they said they heard gunshots that night.

They heard two in quick succession and then a pause and four more. But they heard no fighting, no like thudding on the floor. Nothing like that. And they were asked, you know, know like do you think that you could have heard that and they're like yeah if somebody walks heavy up there you hear it like they're an upstairs neighbor yep they were also asked if they heard shouting regularly in the condo and they said never we never heard anything like that but one of the big things was they talked about Kentucky stand your ground law.

So the defense says like the Kentucky stand your ground law says that you don't have to stop shooting because the threat is done. So that was the prosecution's argument. If this was true, if this was a domestic violence thing, self-defense. Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. If this was self-defense, she should have taken that initial shot and then called 9-1-1 right but instead she shot him until she was sure he was dead and so that was a big argument for the defense too they're like you know the kentucky stand your ground law doesn't say that's true person does not have a duty to retreat prior to the use of deadly force but the prosecution argued that that law doesn't matter at all here because Ryan was in his own home.

She entered his home. Exactly. And she admitted to removing the safety, turning the safety off on the gun, which shows premeditation. Hmm. premeditation. The biggest thing that happened in this pretrial hearing was that a recorded phone call from jail was played where I believe Shana was talking to her mother, where she said that if she got out on bond, she'd run. She'd leave the state. Is she dumber than a box of rocks? No. Well, she's 21 or whatever. I mean, come on, though. Come on. Yeah.

Let's not insult 21-year-olds. I mean, surely people have got to know those phone calls are recorded. Yeah. So one of the things that they asked her was, what do you think would have happened if you had stopped shooting after the initial shot or after the initial two shots? Because those were a shot in such quick succession. And she said, I knew he'd get up. He'd hurt me. He'd shoot me. Apparently in this situation, too, it's common to have like a character witness testify for you about like the likelihood of you showing up for court and everything like that.

And so Sharon's mom testified. She talked about what a good girl Shana is. She said this whole thing's been horrible. You know, she's been portrayed as an obsessive girlfriend, a liar, a murderer. But she grew up in the church. Oh, well, no weirdos come out of there. That's right. She's far from evil. She has a heart of gold. She's like her mommy. Ew. Yeah.

She's great because she's just like me. I mean, come on. But also, I mean, your mom's your character witness. Come on. Yeah. Ultimately, the judge kind of split somewhere in the middle. He reduced the bond to $1.5 million, but obviously they couldn't afford that. And so she remained in jail until her trial, which started in April of 2015, which was two and a half years after she shot Ryan Poston.

Obviously, the prosecution's case was what we've talked about, that she was obsessed with Ryan. And that night she saw her life with him being taken away, and she lost it. And she, she made the decision to kill him, because if she couldn't have him, no one else could, and he wasn't going to be able to just dismiss her like that. And the defense's claim was what she had claimed from that very first word on the 911 call. It was self-defense. The prosecutor told the jury that the only person whose life was in danger on October 12, 2012, was Ryan Poston. And they played, in almost its entirety, all of the videos of Shana in that interrogation room from that night. Yeah.

They played the portion where she said, my love turned to hate and I picked up the gun and killed him. They brought in a forensic expert who talked about the positioning of Ryan's body and the blood that was like on the kitchen table. So even still, when Shana was changing her story, she still was maintaining that Ryan had been coming at her. But this forensic expert testified that Ryan was never in a standing position. He was sitting at the table when he was initially shot. And the subsequent shots were fired at him when he was in the process of falling out of a chair and landing on the floor. Yeah. And she had gotten very close to him to take those shots.

She'd walked around the table and she'd shot him from the front, from the back, from the top. And blood had made it onto the gun, which means she was standing in very close range when she shot him. Another expert also said that Ryan was alive for all six of the shots, essentially. There was bruising around all of them. So at any point, she could have stopped and gotten him help, and she chose not to. A big thing that came out at trial that was brought up by the prosecution is that Ryan had tried to end the argument that night and they had proof of it from Shana's search history on her phone. What? At some point when the argument had escalated, Ryan had locked himself in his bedroom and told Shana to leave.

And she had then Googled how to pick a bedroom lock. Oh, my God. And had apparently done it. Oh, this poor guy. She had gone back in and broken into his bedroom and continued the fight. Oh, this is terrifying. It really is. And it was somewhere when that had all escalated that he moved to the dining room.

He sat down at the table and basically was like, I'm not going to do this with you. I'm done. You know, this is it. And that's when she took that gun off the table and killed him. The defense tried to contest some of that forensic evidence. They actually brought in the actual table from Ryan's apartment. It was bloodstained. And they tried to do like a demonstration about how it could have happened how he could have been like leaping across the table at her and and that could have accounted for the way the blood

stains line up on the table but the prosecution was able to tear this down pretty quickly and they showed a much better demonstration that lined up with the evidence in a much more concise way okay they were like hey well you've got the table out. Let's show you something that makes more sense. Exactly. Exactly. And then some particularly damning evidence came from some women that Shana had talked to in her time in jail.

Because as we know, Shana didn't keep her fucking mouth closed. jail because as we know shana didn't keep her fucking mouth closed yeah so they call these three women who all had been housed with shana at different points one of them was like her current cellmate one of them had been like when she was originally in holding had been in holding with her and they all told very similar stories and none of them by any accounts knew each other so the fact that they were all cooperating the same information was pretty good. Again, they were convicted felons. And so there is obviously some question about the motives about that. But they all on the stand said they weren't receiving anything in exchange for their testimony.

But the one who was her current cellmate said that Shana had told her that she was the aggressor that night. That was what had really happened. The prosecutor, while she was on the stand, said, did she talk to you at all about what she thought was going to happen when she came to court? And all three of them had kind of a similar story. They said that she had originally planned to plead guilty. And then she decided that she was too smart because she has the IQ of Einstein. And so since that wouldn't work, she was going to plead the battered wife syndrome and say

that he beat her. When these women were asked about, you know, if she expressed any emotion or if she seemed to have any remorse, they all had the same answer no that she really liked to play up the victim role but admitted that that was all acting there wasn't a lot the defense could offer other than you know the story about self-defense and all of that shana did not testify in her own defense that's wise maybe she is it was very wise yes but in closing arguments the defense did the best they could they basically mocked the prosecution's claim about shana being this obsessed girlfriend they said so she keeps calling her boyfriend and he can't get rid of her so she's a. She keeps hounding him with texts and emails. And so, of course, that makes her a murderer.

Are you guys buying that? That's what he says to the jury. Yeah, we are, sir. Yes. And the prosecution ended by saying, basically, you know, the evidence in this does not lie. The defendant has done nothing but lie. They said she has showed us that she is a liar. She has showed us that she is a manipulator.

And more importantly, she has showed us that on October 12th, 2012, she was a murderer. On October 12th, 2012, she was a murderer. The case went to the jury on April 23rd, around 6.30 p.m. And five hours later, they came back with a verdict. What do you think they found? Guilty as hell. Yes, they found her guilty. As hell. As hell!

As hell. As hell. During the sentencing phase, her lawyer asked the jury for lenience. They said that her accomplishments and good deeds in life should not be ignored. What? Because she graduated college in three years? In three years, yeah. I mean, honey, come on. You can take some time off for murder for that, right?

I really disagree. I mean, good for you. You saved some money, but I don't know that that gets you out of prison. One of Ryan's sisters gave a victim impact statement and said, He made us complete. Without him, there's always a chair that is going to be empty. He will never be able to get married. He'll never be able to have kids.

He'll never be able to go to his kids' baseball games. He'll never be able to have all the things he deserved to have in this life. The jury only deliberated for about an hour before they made a recommendation on sentencing. They recommended that she be sentenced to 40 years. only deliberated for about an hour before they made a recommendation on sentencing. They recommended that she be sentenced to 40 years. Yeah. There was one more phase of this sentencing, which I was not familiar with. So once that sentence comes through, once the sentencing recommendation comes through in Kentucky, and I don't know how common this is, the defense could then enter a new phase where they try to reduce the

amount of that that has to be served before she will become eligible for parole by proving that she was a victim of domestic violence. That's interesting. So once the jury recommended their 40 years, then everybody was back in court for this new hearing where the defense was trying to get that sentence or that get her parole eligibility reduced. Because under that, it would have been like 34 years before she would have been eligible. And so at this hearing, by Kentucky law to prove domestic violence, the defense must prove that the two lived together. That is specifically in the definition. Well, that's kind of stupid definition well that's kind of stupid but

it's it is kind of stupid because you can still i mean you can still experience domestic violence if you're not living together yeah okay but unfortunately for the defense they had in shana's own words when she's filling out that initial paperwork when she's in the interrogation room that they don't live together right she gives like that police officer his address and he's like okay is that your address and she says no we don't live together i live in lexington and gives her apartment address in lexington yeah so the defense tried to counteract that by showing some texts in court where shana said she was cooking dinner at ryan's house but yeah at ryan's house not at

my house yeah exactly and so that didn't do any good and the judge ended up sentencing her to the 40 years that the jury recommended the defense you know had done their best they actually this is the very first time that they brought any kind of witness who claimed to have ever witnessed any kind of domestic violence. And it was some neighbor of Ryan's that said one day she had come and knocked on her door that Shana had come and knocked on this neighbor's door and said that she was afraid to go back into Ryan's apartment because he'd hit her on the arm and showed her that her arm was red. Wow. But the prosecution brought forward that same cellmate who testified at the original phase of the trial and said that Shana had told her all about that incident and that she had inflicted those marks on herself. Good grief. Yes. Oh, I hate this.

Oh, yeah. Anyway, Shana gets sentenced to 40 years. She's devastated. She cries she cries whatever her mom can't believe it she'll never accept that her daughter was anything but a victim in this situation she said i'll draw my last breath helping that baby she doesn't deserve this she's done nothing wrong i get you know it's your daughter and whatever but of course i mean i don't know how you hear these facts and think she did nothing wrong yeah that's a tough one yeah you'll find out when you become a mother next month i guess i will i guess i will uh but Yes, I will. But this is not over. This is crazy. Shana's conviction was overturned. No, why?

Because a juror failed to disclose that he was a felon. Oh, my God. So the juror was a felon for apparently unpaid child support. No. He claims that he didn't know he was a felon. Oh unpaid child support. No. He claims that he didn't know he was a felon. Oh, give me a... That when he pled guilty to whatever for the unpaid child support,

that he didn't realize that made him a felon. So the whole thing has to take place again. This is insane. No. She gets a whole... Yeah. And she gets a whole new trial. Starts in August of 2018.

The prosecution puts on the exact same case. I'm sorry. When they ask if you're a felon, is that really the honor system? Do they not, like, run you through the system? You'd think they'd, like, look into that a little bit, right? Because this is so expensive for the state to go through. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Apparently not. Because this dude didn't know he was a felon, didn't disclose it, whatever. So new trial. It's August of 2018. Prosecution's case, exactly the same. They don't change anything. But this time she's got a whole new defense team and a whole new defense.

Turns out, OK, maybe there wasn't. We can't prove that there was all this like domestic violence stuff going on. But you know what was going on? What? Kinky sex. And Shana complied with it against her will. What? Yes.

Well, you see. What? You see, Shana couldn't reach orgasm when they had sex and this was very upsetting to ryan this is all so embarrassed i'm so embarrassed on the stand oh my gosh and so he told her that this was super unattractive to him and so she just complied with whatever he wanted sexually to try and make up for it that doesn't really make sense and that was the abuse that she was because like if he's upset that she's not having an orgasm wouldn't he be wanting to figure out what she likes yeah you would sure think so okay so she this time takes the stand to talk about all of this kinky sex stuff and how rough it sometimes was and how it was painful.

And she didn't want to do it or didn't know how not to do it. And she often felt humiliated and how it was super degrading and blah, blah, blah. So important to note during this time, she is able to recall specific dates of events when this sex took place. That's convenient. Mm hmm. Yes. Very convenient. Years later to be able to remember these very specific dates.

Somehow, when she's questioned about the 911 call, though, on cross examination and how she changed her story from the 911 call to her statement to the police, she tells the prosecutor, you know what? After all these years, I really don't remember the 911 call. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so the prosecutor goes, uh-huh. But you remember every other detail, every other detail of a relationship that started in 2011. The prosecutor says, in fact, you have often described Ryan to your friends as being calm, didn't you? So she's trying to point out inconsistencies in her story here.

And Shana's like, well, yeah, he could be calm at times. And the prosecutor says, you told them that he was patient and kind and shana says well he was sometimes patient and kind and nice and sometimes he wasn't and the prosecutor said so do you want to tell the jury what you told your friends that you were a willing participant in the kinky sex isn't it true that you told multiple friends how it was the best sex of your life and shana said i'm sure i said that and the prosecutor said that you told your friends that the way he looked at you was unreal you said that and shana says i mean i'll i'll take your word for it. I don't remember. So this bold defense strategy did not work any better. The jury deliberated for five hours. Again, they found Shana guilty of murder.

And for a second time, we entered a sentencing phase. And again, Ryan's sister got up and made a victim impact statement. This statement. Oh, I think this is the most powerful statement. She got up on the stand and she was holding a teddy bear. She said, this is Ryan's shirt. So the bear was made out of a shirt of Ryan's. And then she pulled a string on the bear's back and it played a recording of Ryan's voicemail message. It says, you've reached attorney Ryan Poston.

I'm sorry, I'm unavailable right now. If you could leave a message, I'll call you back as soon as possible. Thank you. And Katie looked at the jury and said, that's it. That's all we have of him, a voicemail. I think that's super powerful. it's so sad shana's mother also made a statement a plea for leniency to the jury and it pisses me off so fucking bad she said She said, my child's life has also been taken. Okay.

Her family also grieves. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Her family also grieves. I'm not lessening or taking away from or trying to say that I don't understand the grief of this family because I do. No, you don't. Fuck right off.

No, you don't. You clearly don't.'t you clearly do not is this the grief olympics are you trying to compete for gold here give me a break so this new trial uh definitely backfired for shana because this time the jury recommended a life sentence man they really didn't give a shit about the kinky sex, huh? They sure did not. I have I have a question. Just jumping. Yeah. OK, this kinky sex stuff.

Was it her position that she was being raped? Like, did she say, you know, I fought against him? Not that he raped her, but that she went along with it, even though she didn't really want to, because she thought that that was what she was supposed to do. So that was supposed to be like demonstrate the control he had over her, I guess. OK. She never claimed that she told him she didn't want to do it. She said she did it and that she was a participant in it, but that it wasn't what she would have chosen. And she felt degraded by it.

OK. Gotcha. Gotcha. So the judge upheld the jury's recommendation to a life sentence. And with that, Shana will become eligible for parole after 17 years. She will be 44 years old. Wow. Ryan's stepdad said, this is justice.

This is what this is all about. There's never going to be closure but at least we don't have to walk through that door again yeah that's true yeah i think closure is kind of bullshit oh yeah it definitely is it doesn't really ever happen does it i you know and i've never been through anything like this but i just i can't imagine that there ever becomes a time when you're like yeah that's fine that's fine that that happens yeah yeah exactly yeah no that never happens yeah that's the story of shana hubert hubers okay i've got to do some googling i think she's okay she's beautiful and he is a very handsome man like she's super beautiful like they were a beautiful couple okay shana hubers all right oh she is cute yeah so they likened this case a lot of people compare it to jody

arias oh he was hot as hell yeah he's super good looking yeah they made a beautiful couple yeah so they compared it to Jodi Arias? Jodi Arias, because she was, you know, so obsessed with this and then tried, after she clearly murdered him, tried to make some claim that he was abusive the whole time or whatever, and that it was all self-defense. Okay, I've got to quit. I've got to quit looking at all these photos. Quit looking at all these photos quit looking at everything yeah i i surprisingly had never heard of this case so thank you to chica chibi on twitter for this recommendation it's a case that was made for you really oh it's a super me case it definitely is oh gosh his sister's beautiful too i just found the picture of her with the.

Uh-huh. Yeah. So what do you think? Do you think that that was that she lied the whole time? Do you think she intended to kill him? It sounds like she was the abuser and he was the victim. I agree. The fact that he tried to remove himself from the situation in his own apartment and locked himself in his bedroom and told her to leave. To me, it's like, that's all the evidence you need.

And then if you need more, there's a mountain of it. Exactly. Oh, yeah. Oh, terrifying. She made some comment, and I left it out because there were plenty of weird comments that she made in that initial interrogation video. She made a comment like laughing about how no one was ever going to marry her if they found out she murdered her boyfriend in self-defense. That's what she's focused on?

Yes. Yes. So along with that, she did get married in prison to a fellow inmate but she has since gotten divorced so wah-wah didn't work out for her to a fellow inmate like to to a man to like another woman in the prison like what what's the deal um so the details are a little bit odd it is a uh the person was convicted as a man but now identifies identifies as a woman. Oh, okay. So I don't know if that means that they were in the same prison or what. But they got married in prison, but they divorced less than a year later. Well, it'll happen.

I really tried to find more on that because I thought it was very interesting, but there's really not much information. I mean, hopefully if you've transitioned, I feel like it would be really dangerous to be in a men's prison. I agree. I agree. if you've transitioned i feel like it would be really dangerous to be in a men's prison i agree i agree so i'm assuming that because that person has trans yeah has transitioned that they are now in uh in a female person man oh man what a story that was terrible thanks a lot no problem well poor david we probably shouldn't do questions because i don't want that poor young man to be trapped in his bedroom any longer than he has to.

Yes. He's behaving wonderfully. Just quiet as a mouse. Really? Because I heard he like got mad and like peed on the front porch. That was Oliver. Do you want to tell that story? Oh, my gosh.

Okay, so we had to order more cards for the patreon and so like i did a porch drop off to you for you to sign them and then you came and did a porch drop off for me after you don't worry guys i didn't drive norman drove me i'm on painkillers yes exactly so so you stood in the driveway and i sat on the porch and we talked for a little bit you know we maintain social distancing or whatever but i let all of Oliver out while you guys were standing in my driveway because you're his favorite people on the planet. Naturally. And so he was very excited to see you and Norm and he came down, you guys fed him or

whatever. And then he stood on the porch and I don't know if he was mad or what. He peed on the front porch, which he's never done. It was the weirdest thing. He seemed pretty embarrassed about himself like about his behavior okay so as we were driving away norman was like man what a power move i was intimidated it was such strange behavior i mean he just like looked us in the eye i was like this is my porch yeah this is my porch glad you guys came to visit but you know social

distancing you know i'm gonna mark this right here oh my gosh it's very bizarre well on that note on the note of dog piss why don't we move on to supreme court inductions let's do it do you want to tell people how to get i do i'm it. I'm itching to tell them. You guys, like I said, my dying wish is that you join our Patreon at the Supreme Court level. And once you get to that level, you get all kinds of goodies. You get a sticker,

you get a card with our lovely autographs that Oliver has not peed on. You get bonus episodes, you get bonus videos, you get into the discord and you get inducted on this podcast. And this week we are doing names and favorite books. Jez. The entirety of the Harry Potter series. Courtney Enns. The program series by Suzanne Young. Erica. Serena by Ron Rash. Megan. The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald. Jill.

Idiot. No author, so I don't know if that's just an insult or what. Katie, or Kay Burns if you're nasty. Lies My Teacher Told Me. Caitlin M. The Cormoran Strike Series by Robert Galbraith. Galbraith. Galbraith. How do you say that?

I know it's a fake name for J.K. Rowling. Yeah. Galbraith, right? Galbraith? I don't know. Close enough. Potato potato. Samson Perry.

Warriors by Aaron Hunter. Kayla. Velocity by Dean Koontz. Alison Sterling. The Harry Potter series. LLP. The Cradle Will Fall by Mary Higgins Clark. Okay, what?

That's LLP. So London's initials will be LLP. So that's what we call her when we refer to her sometimes. I like that. Are you feeling a little weird now? I am. My unborn baby is a patron. And her favorite book is The Cradle Will Fall.

Yikes. Yikes, Rue. Ashley M. The Husband's Secret by Leanne Moriarty. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Welcome, guys. Thank you so much for your support. We appreciate it so much.

If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, and of course, Patreon. Please subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. I'm sorry for all the weird giggles. Oh, God, I keep cutting you off with my weird giggles. What do you want to say? I laughed and then I felt weird and then I started to say something and then I felt weird. I think our mics are cutting off enough that like you,

it sounded like you had just not talked at all. So anyway, I'm sorry. I'm being weird. Continue, continue. You're totally fine. Hey, if you guys

aren't doing anything next week, maybe join us for another episode. Maybe? What are you talking about? Definitely join us for another episode, damn it. We'll know if you don't join us. Be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole

new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from a fantastic article by Katie Vine for Texas Monthly titled Just Desserts, the FBI, the Corsicana Daily Sun, and the Star-Telegram.

And I got my info from an episode of Snapped, an episode of 48 Hours, and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. All right. Killed it. All right, Sunday night.