Let's Go To Court! - 127: PATREON BONUS EPISODE: The Candyman & Buried Alive

Episode Date: June 24, 2020

Barbara Mackle had just been kidnapped. An armed man and woman had stormed into her hotel room, bound and chloroformed her mother, and taken her at gunpoint to their car. They drove for roughly 20 miles, then stopped in a remote, wooded area outside of Atlanta. They injected her with tranquilizers, then brought her to a grave. At the bottom of the grave lay a fiberglass box. It contained a lamp, food and water, and ventilation tubes. The kidnappers ordered her to get inside. Then they buried her alive.  Then Brandi tells us a story that nearly ruined Halloween. It was Halloween of 1974 when Ronald O’Bryan and a friend took their children trick-or-treating in a Pasadena, Texas neighborhood. The children ran excitedly from house to house, getting candy along the way. But at one house, no one answered. The kids ran impatiently to the next house, but Ronald stayed behind. When he caught up with the rest of the group, he held five 21-inch Pixy Stix. The kids couldn’t resist. If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more bonus episodes, sign up for our Patreon. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. For this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Man Who Killed Halloween” by Lisa Marie Fuqua, medium.com “The True Story of the Notorious Trick-or-Treat Murderer” by Michael Segalov, Vice “'Man Who Ruined Halloween': Recounting the horror story of Houston's notorious ‘Candyman’" by Alison Medley, The Houston Chronicle “Candy Man's legacy still haunting today” The Houston Chronicle “Ronald Clark O’Bryan” wikipedia.org For this episode, Kristin pulled from:  “A terrified Barbara read her instructions,” by Gene Miller for the Miami Herald “Kidnap case goes to jury; Krist silent,” by Gene Miller for the Miami Herald “Witnesses pin Mackle kidnap on man with ‘heavy beard,’” Fort Myers News-Press “‘Bury me in a box,” Krist says,” by Gene Miller for the Miami Herald “Gary Stephen Krist,” wikipedia “Gary Stephen Krist,” murderpedia “He buried Barbara Mackle alive -- then became a doctor and a drug trafficker,” by Kara Goldfarb for allthatsinteresting.com “Krist v. State” “Barbara Mackle, the heiress who was kidnapped and buried alive for three days,” by Mike McPadden for investigationdiscovery.com “Barbara Mackle’s 83 hours in a tomb,” by Gene Miller for the Miami Herald

Hello! Hi! I bet you're wondering what's going on here. Well, I've... Okay, put some pep in your step. I've produced a human. You guys, if you are listening to this intro, that means that Brandi's gave birth to London this week! Okay, okay, calm down everybody. What this means is that this week, you're getting a Patreon bonus episode. This is like a sneak peek behind the curtain. You know, in The Wizard of Oz, when you see the wizard and he's just... Hey, the wizard turns out to be a terrible guy. This bonus episode, you guys are going to be like, my God. How have I not signed up for Patreon yet?

Yeah, hint, hint, wink, wink, Brandy had a baby. Babies are expensive. No, I'm just kidding. We hope you guys enjoy this bonus episode. We're not going to do any more of these. This is just a little appetizer. And then from here on out, while Brandy's on maternity leave, we might have special guests like Brad Pitt. Yeah. Name another celebrity.

Brad Pitt's all you got? Brad Pitt, Jennifer Aniston, Angelina Jolie. I'm very old. There's only people related to Brad Pitt? Yeah, and if all those guests fall through, then we might have the gaming historian or my dad on for future episodes. All excellent choices.

Who wants Brad Pitt when you can have Norman Caruso? Or DP. Okay, don't look at me like that. Anyway. who wants brad pitt when you can have norman caruso or dp okay don't look at me like that anyway guys say congratulations to brandy and uh enjoy this uh this bonus episode i don't know I got stuck. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso.

I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about being buried alive. And I'll be talking about the Candyman. Ooh. Is this your own personal experience with being buried alive? I realize, yeah, I did write that kind of funny, didn't I?

You guys, a lot of people think it'd be fun. I was buried alive. A lot of people think it'd be a good time. It's not. It's very traumatizing. You won't like it. Don't recommend it. Hello.

Hello, patrons. Yeah, welcome to the bonus episode. Yes. You guys, thank you for signing signing up thank you for supporting us here oh man oh man in these trying times we live in it is a happening saturday night here in kansas city um i'm at my home and by that you mean nothing is happening my home and kristin's at hers i you know what? I've got a little treat. David went to Sonic, got me a diet ocean water. What? That's the lamest treat I've ever heard.

Is that all? You didn't like get a snack or anything? No, just a diet ocean water. Is that just like a blue? Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a sprite. I feel like that. It's a sprite zero with blue yeah it's a it's a it's a sprite i feel like that yeah that's uh that's vegas vacation i'll take some of the uh blue and uh some of the yellow yeah some of the yeah yeah no this is just yes this is just a diet sprite with um with blue coconut flavoring in it.

Okay, well, it does sound kind of good. I mean, I was going to make fun of it, but that doesn't sound bad. It's delicious and caffeine free. Oh, wow. Amazing. Amazing. So I had an experience this week. I had my COVID-19 test.

Oh, my gosh. How did that go? Pre-surgery thing, right? You had to get it done. So they swabbed you all the way to your brain okay here's the thing it was not bad at all oh okay yeah so i had been hearing horror stories and then i finally like looked it up yeah even though i was kind of afraid to because i was like i'm gonna see terrible info but no I looked it up and most of the news sites were just like you know it feels weird and you'll feel a little burning sensation but that's it and yeah but that's unrelated Brandy thank you very much so yeah I went in the nurse like I was very nervous and the nurse was like hey just so you know I've done a bunch of these and everyone has said wow what we've heard about this is way overblown so she

did it and yeah it just honestly I would rather have that than a shot any day of the week well you're scared of needles so well still I'm just telling you it really wasn't bad really was not bad so I just sent you a meme that this reminded me of because we've been talking about you getting it. But it said there's like a sign that says COVID testing in the rear. And it says, and I thought it was a nasal swab. So I did have the nasal swab. Yeah, so we've been discussing this because you were going to get that done.

And then I just found out that there's this horrible thing that has to happen to me. It's not horrible, Brand has to happen to me it's not horrible Brandy come on okay tell the good people what it is at my last OB appointment she informed me and she like gave me plenty of notice she's like okay not next appointment but the appointment after we will have to do a strep b test and i was like okay cool cool like all right whatever she informed me that they will be having to swab my butthole to see if i'm a carrier of strep b i was like oh i'm sorry what that's a thing that happens okay Okay, for real, though. You're going to have to push a baby out of your vagine. And you're worried about a little, like, cotton swab up the b-hole? I'm aware of a lot of terrible things that happened during pregnancy.

No one had mentioned that to me up till now. Okay, but is it, do you think it's a Q-tip? I bet it's a Q-tip, yeah. I bet you. It will be fine. It will not be a big deal. But I was like unprepared. And obviously she expected that because she gave me lots of warning.

She's like, this seems like a lady whose butthole is cinched real tight. I'm going to have to let her know. Oh, God. Do you think we've been talking about our body parts too much on this podcast recently? Well, here's the thing. I mean, we can't help. Like, I got a tumor. You've got a baby cooking away.

Our bodies are just a wonderland right now. As John Mayer would say. John Mayer wrote that song about us. No, but now now for real yeah not to be insensitive to your butthole swabbing you're getting but like if it's a q-tip i mean don't you think someone could maybe stick a q-tip up your butthole and like you'd barely notice well i don't know kristin I've never had it done before. So I guess I'll report back. Please let me know. Okay, guys, here's the deal. Right now, because of my, you know, Tommy the tumor, they've got me on two medicines, anti-nausea and pain pills. And I knew that pain pills could cause constipation. I also knew that I'm not eating as much as usual.

What I did not know until I got a refill on the anti-nausea, and I don't know, some very conscientious pharmacist decided to put an extra label on there, apparently both of my medications cause constipation. you are doubled up on the corking medications i went eight days oh god eight days that's miserable well the funny thing is like i was so so i told my parents and they were like how is that possible? Like, how is it humanly possible? Medically, how is that possible? And I was just like, look, I truly didn't even notice for the first several days because I was in so much pain. I really wasn't eating much. And so, like.

Like, I guess I just don't have anything to put out. Yeah, well, poop was like the last thing on my mind, frankly. And it wasn't until, like, I started to feel just a little better that I was like, hmm, it's been a while since I took a trip to the toilet. Anyway, anyway, so that's that's been my life. It's yeah, I don't know how to describe it. I was about to say it's been a real rough go in a way. It hasn't. It's just well, I told you that by the eighth day, I looked pregnant. You just fully distended stomach.

I looked like it was safe to tell people. I looked like any minute now we'd go in and find out, is it a boy or a girl? You know, like, oh, boy. Yeah. Let me tell you, my insides are not functioning as they should either my intestines are so jumbled up probably somewhere around my diaphragm that yes there's a giant baby in there taking up space gumming up the works that's right you know i've had very few complaints about this pregnancy though so i guess constipation is is the least of my worries well pretty easy

pregnancy biggest of your worries is that i'm gonna anal swab i was gonna say the biggest of my worries i'm about to have to push a baby out of my vagine as you put it so delicately i did put that very delicately because i didn't know if you knew what was happening thank you i was afraid you'd be like one of those women on the tlc shows who like doesn't know she's pregnant until she you know starts giving birth you know yeah one of those classic tales should we uh should we get to it probably should there's probably been enough to talk about our our bodies yeah we're really pushing it with the patreon people we're like you guys think you like us okay we're gonna really test you we're like a moody man in a drama series

you're drawn to us but then we push you away okay brandy this this case that i have for you today, I mean, I don't even know what to say. It is nuts. Nuts, nuts, nuts. You know how much I love a case that's nuts. I do. And I don't, well, first of all, have you heard of Barbara Mackle? No.

Yeah, you text me and you're like, dibs on Barbara whatever. And I was like, cool, man. Cool. I don't even care. Well, here you go. Okay. First of all, thank you to Nino Diaz for emailing. I seriously just about shit my pants because I clicked on my screen and like clicked to my script and it was a fucking blank for a second. Apparently my document was like scrolled all the way to the bottom and the last sentence of my script just takes up the top of one page.

Oh, God, would you cry? I think I would cry if this script went away. Because this one is long. I mean, you know, so buckle up, everybody. Yeah, I'm ready. And it took forever. So, yeah, I would do some tears. Yeah.

I'm afraid. Do some tears. Do some tears. I would do some tears. I would do some pot. Okay. Thank you to Nino Diaz for emailing us with this case also old-timey disclaimer big time old-timey disclaimer excellent okay what's a big time old-timey disclaimer

so that means it's not necessarily that it's super old because this takes place in 1968 which i don't consider super old yeah but there's just, there was a lot. I'm sure our parents will appreciate that, Kristen. No, I said I don't consider it super old. I know, that's what I say. I'm sure they'll appreciate that. So the reason I say super old timey disclaimer is because there's not a lot of modern stuff

that was written about this. And so I had to go back to the old stuff and it's just like, there's not a really, hmm, there's not a real cohesive narrative here. Okay. All right. So there's some conflicting sources on some of this stuff. So that's why I say old timey disclaimer, big time. Wonderful. Do you need a longer explanation? Nope, that's exactly what I wanted. time. Wonderful. Do you need a longer explanation? Nope. That's exactly what I wanted. Great. Okay. Oh my God. I want alcohol so bad. You can't have that while you're on the pain pills,

Kristen. Yeah, I know. I, that's why I'm saying I want it so bad. Okay. All right. Fine. Talk to me about nine months, Kristen. Okay. You're right. What am I saying? I'm so sorry. Oh, I can't complain to you about anything you can complain to me about everything just because i can't have it doesn't mean you're like you can still complain about it okay here's the deal i'm living like a mormon brandy i can't have coffee can't have alcohol can't have sex i mean, whose life is this? I tell you what. Yeah. All I want right now, you know what I want more than anything in the world? What?

I want a very strong, delicious cocktail from a restaurant. Yeah. And I want to drink it in the restaurant. But I want it there to not be coronavirus, obviously. Yeah. Okay. because i know things are opening up and i'm like yeah i'm not going there but anyway all right hit us with your tale about being buried alive okay about the time i was buried alive yes in 1968 brandy was there she remembers okay for real for real this time for real we'll do it live let's go yeah this is the real reason we couldn't do a live show

no kidding she's such a fucking mess well surely if people were watching us we'd get our act together you think maybe i don't know i feel like i'd be less inclined to talk about buttholes probably yeah i probably wouldn't talk about my butthole in a lot in front of a live audience there's something about just the recording that makes it feel like it's just the two of us listening. That's right. You and I. You, you, and I. Okay, enough, enough. Okay. It was December 17th, 1968. Barbara Mackle is 20 years old. She's a student at Emory University in Atlanta.

And she's sick. The flu has been going around campus, and Barbara has it. flu has been going around campus and Barbara has it. In fact, she is so sick that her mom Jane drove up from their home in Coral Gables, Florida to take care of her. So Jane got them a room at the Roadway Inn, which was like a few miles off of campus, so that she could take care of Barbara and, you know, stop the flu from spreading to everyone else in the dorm why'd you say barbara the plan was huh why'd you say barbara like that how'd i say it take care of barbara barbara it's like the teen mom lady barb

a great character okay okay. Okay, sorry. So the plan was that they'd stay at the hotel until Barbara felt better. And then they'd drive home to Florida for Christmas. But that night, at around four in the morning, there was a knock at the door. It was a policeman. And he had terrible news. He said that Barbara's boyfriend had been in a car accident and he was asking for her. Oh, wow. So Jane opened the door just a crack and as soon as she did, she realized that she had been fooled. It wasn't a police officer? that she had been fooled.

It wasn't a police officer? No. It was just a guy in a policeman's hat. Oh, no. There was a woman standing next to him. She was dressed like a man, and she was holding a gun. In the split second that that door opened,

these two burst through the door. They overpowered Jane and put a chloroformed rag over her face. Once she passed out, they tied her up and gagged her. Oh my gosh. Then the man and woman grabbed Barbara. They held the gun to her and forced her to leave the hotel and get into their car. They drove for 20 miles. When they finally stopped, they were in a forest. They forced Barbara out of the car and took her to a grave. There she was, held at gunpoint, looking down into this grave. And at the bottom of it was a fiberglass box. Oh my gosh. At the bottom of it was a fiberglass box.

Oh, my gosh. It was kind of like a coffin, but not quite. There was food inside and a lamp. And there was water, which was laced with sedatives. And there were two small pipes shooting up from the box. So that Barbara wouldn't run out of oxygen. Wow. They gave Barbara a shot, which made her really woozy, and ordered her to lay down in the box. They handed her a sign that read, kidnapped, and ordered her to hold it up to her chest.

They screwed the lid on the box and took a picture of her with that sign. Then they covered the box with mud, making sure that the two pipes stuck up just enough above the ground so that Barbara could breathe, but not high enough that anyone would notice them. And then the kidnappers left. They had buried Barbara Mackle alive. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, this is. This is terrifying.

Yeah. She screamed and screamed and screamed, but no one could hear her. Yeah, she's buried underground. Do you think it was dumb of her to scream? No, I think that's a normal thing to do. I think anybody would do that. But the fact that no one could hear is what I say, obviously. Come on, Barbara. With that, the kidnappers hopped back in their car and they hauled ass to Florida.

As the hours wore on, Barbara's mom, Jane, came to. The chloroform wore off, but she was still bound and gagged. So she managed to hobble out of the hotel room. And with her hands still tied behind her back, she opened the front door of her daughter's car My gosh. But here's a fun fact. The hotel was right next to, like, they didn't say it was a mental hospital. But evidently, it was a hospital where enough enough times patients would like escape and it kind of created a mess for the hotel so when initially when the night

clerk heard the honking his reaction was another crackpot's on the loose wow but eventually they did investigate and they were like holy holy shit. You know, they got Jane untied and she called the police and she called her husband back in Florida to tell him what was going on. At this point, all she knew was that she had been robbed and that the robbers had taken her daughter. Fast forward to 9 a.m. that morning. One of the kidnappers called Barbara's dad, Robert, at the family home, which was located at. Oh, oh, oh. OK, hold on. Oh, oh, oh.

Let me get ready. OK, I'm ready. 41-11 San Amaro Drive, Coral Gables, Florida. OK, OK, OK. You see it? You like it? I'm seeing'm seeing it i'm seeing it two million dollar house is this right oh does it say it's two million two million are you what's what's your reaction i mean are you thinking it's not worth aerial view of it it looks like there's a big pool and a, you know, pretty good size.

Let me go to the street view here. Hold on. Pause. Okay. Okay. Pause. Yeah, that's a nice looking house. Are these people rich?

We got Richie Rich's house here? Well, I mean, yeah. It's got a circle drive, Kristen. I know. I know. That's all you need to know. It's got a circle drive. They have made it in life.

They have made it. So the Mackles were very wealthy. Robert had. I saw the circle drive. So Robert, I believe, was like a real estate developer or land developer. So he had quite a bit of money. So he gets this phone call from the kidnappers. And the kidnapper says, hey, do me a favor.

Go to the far corner of your property under, you know, this specific palm tree. Look under this specific rock. And Robert did as he was told. They hit a ransom note on their own property? Pretty fucking ballsy, huh? Yeah. Yeah, so Robert goes out to the palm tree, finds the rock. He digs six inches under that rock and finds a test tube.

He opens the test tube. Three page long ransom note oh my goodness okay which people always say that the jean benet ransom note is way too long and it is it is but when people say that as like see it couldn't possibly be right you know normal ransom notes aren't very long people always bring up this one because this one was insanely long i'm gonna read you part of it all three pages in their entirety here's the thing it really is hard for me because it is very interesting to me i knew you'd want to read the whole thing at a certain point i i i told myself okay I can't read three pages in addition to everything. I mean, it's too much. It's too much. Too much. But I will

read you quite a bit, so here we go. Sir, your daughter has been kidnapped by us, and we now hold her for ransom. She is quite safe, if somewhat uncomfortable. We offer no proof of our possession of her at this time.

It will arrive by mail in a few days. Barbara is presently alive inside a small capsule buried in a remote piece of soil. She has enough food and water and air to last seven days. At the end of the seven days, the life-supporting batteries will be discharged and her air supply will be cut off. The box is waterproof and very strong fiberglass reinforced plywood. She has little chance of escaping. The box is in an unusual and lonely place. She has no chance of being accidentally stumbled upon. A lonely place? What, like they put her in the fucking middle of the zoo or something? Like she's going to have people hanging out with her? That's a weird thing to say.

I think it's to make them sad. I mean, I get the idea behind it. You're just critiquing? Yeah. You're just offering notes? Yeah. Contemplate, if you will, the position into which this puts you. If you pay the ransom prior to seven days, we will tell you of her whereabouts. Should you catch the messenger we send to pick up the ransom, we will simply not say anything to anyone, and ergo, Barbara will suffocate. The messenger knows only one of us, and he will report to us via radio from the pickup site. We will immediately know his fate.

Should you catch all of us, we will never admit to anything, as to do so would be suicide, and again, she will die. As you can see, you don't want to catch us, for to do so would be condemning your lovely and intelligent daughter to death. Wow. Yeah. Don't want to catch us, huh? Okay. Then they gave him instructions. First off, don't involve the police, but you know, at this point, it's too late.

Yeah. They asked for $500,000 in $20 bills and that the money be put in a suitcase. Adjusted for inflation, $3.6 million. Wow. The kidnappers also had very specific instructions regarding the bills. Here's what they said. The notes must not be older than 1950. No more than 10 notes must have consecutive serial numbers. Wow.

Then they said this. of marking on the bills is acceptable. Please note that the bills will undergo a minimum of eight hours of intense examination before we allow you to have knowledge of the subject's whereabouts. We have planned a series of 44 tests on a large representative of the bills. These tests include every chemical and physical test of any remote applicability. and physical test of any remote applicability. So they're like, we know how you tend to, you know, track people down. And it's true. In kidnapping cases, when the FBI gets involved, they usually try to mark the bills in some way.

That way they at least, like, when those bills start to circulate, they can try to track it back, trace it back to the kidnappers. The note went on to say that when Robert had the money ready, he should place a personal ad in all the major Miami newspapers. It should read, loved one, please come home. We will pay all expenses and meet you anywhere at any time. Your family. The ransom note said that they'd be looking for the ad, and once they saw it, they'd call Robert at home after midnight. They'd give him instructions on where to drop off the money, but they wouldn't

stay on the line for long, and they wouldn't repeat themselves. If he let the phone ring more than three times, they'd abandon the whole plan and his daughter would die. Goodness gracious. See, this is why I wanted to read you the whole note. I mean, it is just like, it is so chilling.

It is crazy. If the connection time seemed a little too long, they'd abandon the plan and his daughter would die. Once he got that phone call, he would need to leave the house within one minute. Also, only he could drop off the money. They told him to drive his Lincoln and dress all in white. They said that once he got to the drop off... Why all in white? I assume because it would be so dark out and they wanted him to be super visible.

Okay. All right. All right. That makes sense. Yeah. Maybe they were just fashion conscious. Maybe they were. Yeah.

They said that once he got to the drop-off destination, he'd see three flashes of light aimed at his windshield. And at that point, he should get out of the car with the suitcase in hand, walk toward the light, which would be mounted on top of a box. He would then place the suitcase inside the box and leave. Twelve hours later, they'd call him again to tell him where they'd buried his daughter. This is a very detailed ransom note. Oh my god. Yes. Yes. They covered everything. I guess.

What's your reaction? I'd be bored by now. I'd be like, alright, get to the point fellas. Okay. Yeah. Alright. I'm so sure. No, I'm just kidding. Robert spent that day getting the money together. He was in a panic. By this point, Barbara had been buried alive for roughly one day. Then, on December 19th, at 3.45 a.m., Robert got a phone call. So the real thing that this does make me think is that typically these ransom notes have all these, in the cases that we've done before, have spelling errors and grammatical errors and all of this. This sounds extremely well thought out.

The box itself seems very well planned. So this to me seems like somebody very intelligent behind this crime. Oh, the kidnapper would be so thrilled that you came to that conclusion. That's what I care about. Yeah. As long as we're flattering to this asshat. Right. So Robert gets this phone call and it was the male kidnapper. He told Robert to take the money to the end of Fair Isle Street. There'd be a light, the box, the works.

Robert did as he was told. He drove to the end of Fair Isle Street in his Lincoln, dressed all in white. But when he got there, he didn't see a blinking light. He didn't see a box. Robert wasn't sure what to do, but he set the suitcase down at the end of Fair Isle Street, and at this point it was like 4.41 a.m. Another call came in to the Mackle home. This time, Robert's brother Frank answered, and the kidnapper was like,

what the hell, where's the money? It's not where it's supposed to be. And Frank was like, no, that's impossible. Robert just left a while ago with the money. I promise you he left you the money. Four more minutes went by. At this point, two Miami police officers, who evidently were not in the know, just happened to be near the end of Fair Isle Street when all this went down. What? And they spotted a man and a woman walk out of the woods where Robert had been told to go, and they were carrying a suitcase. And they were approaching a Volvo station wagon. The police yelled for them to stop,

but of course they didn't, and the two ran off, and as they ran, they dropped the money. Police searched the vehicle and found the key to the Roadway Inn in Atlanta. They also found two tickets to Las Vegas and the roll of Polaroid film that the kidnappers had used to photograph Barbara. They also found naked photos of both of the kidnappers. So that seems dumb. Yeah. The vehicle was registered to a man named George Deacon. So the FBI began digging into him and discovered that he was 28, used to work at MIT,

but most recently worked as a researcher for SeaWorld and also worked at the University of Miami where, get this, he built ventilated boxes. So educated, very intelligent. What, Brandy? What? boxes so educated very intelligent what brandy what what do you have to say brandy my prediction seems to be true is it i don't know is it let's find out it's not george glass is not the guy who let's find out together shall we let's find out so, shall we? Let's find out. So they're like, oh, shit. So they knew who the male kidnapper was.

But who was the woman? They talked to George's bosses in Miami. And that's how they found out that George spent a ton of time with this woman named Ruth Eisman Shire, who was a graduate student at the university. George and Ruth had been hanging out a ton ever since George and his wife split up. Banging on the reg? I mean, one can only assume. So the FBI knew who they were looking for,

but they had no idea where George and Ruth were. By this point, Barbara had been buried for like two days. And that's when the FBI got a call. This guy was like, hey, I bought a trailer a while back from this dude, and there's some weird stuff in here. I think you guys need to take a look at it. So they came and looked, and sure enough, there were a bunch of letters addressed to George Deacon. But there were also letters addressed to a guy named Gary Crist. Who's Gary Crist?

Exactly. Who is this guy? So they looked into him, and here is what they discovered. Gary Stephen Crist was 23, and he had quite the criminal criminal record Are you ready for the rap sheet? Yeah Here we go Are we sure it's pronounced Christ and not Christ? I have no idea and I don't care because I hate this man Okay, fair enough

Do you want me to call him Christ? Is that more? It's K-R-I-S-T It's probably Christ Yeah, yeah I mean, I don to call him Christ? Is that more? It's K-R-I-S-T. It's probably Christ. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't call you Christin. But you could, and I would enjoy it. So when he was 14, he stole a boat.

When he was 15, he stole a car. When he was 16, he was sent to the Utah State Industrial School, which he promptly escaped. Was that like a reform school type of deal? Oh, yeah. Didn't really do much in terms of reforming him, though. If I may offer a criticism. When he was 18,

he stole two cars. So he was ordered to go to the state vocational school. At the same time? Yes, it was like a movie, Brandy. Because, you know, he was so smart that he figured out how to drive them both at the same time. So he got sent out to the state vocational school in Tracy, California. And after that, he stole two more cars. And this time, people were like, okay,

now you're really in trouble. And in 1966, he was sent to prison. He was sentenced to six months to five years. But after like five months, he was like, fuck this, and he escaped. And he'd been on the run ever since. Wow. The FBI still had that Volvo that the kidnappers had abandoned. So they dusted it for prints and compared it to the prints that they had on file for Gary Crist. Turns out George Deacon didn't exist. George Deacon was Gary Crist.

Finkel was Einhorn. Einhorn was Finkel. Man, talk about a movie that has not aged well. Yeah. Man, transphobia. Oh, yeah. To the 10th degree, I think. That's right.

What was that? Ace Ventura, Pet Detective? That's correct. Yeah. To the 10th degree, I think. What was that? Ace Ventura, pet detective? That's correct. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But the FBI still had no idea where the kidnappers were. Then, that night, at around 10.30 p.m., Gary the Douche Lord called the Little Flower Catholic Church, where the Mackles were members. Father John Malachy answered,

Molke, I don't know, porch, you know, whatever, anyway. I'm sorry, what? It's either Malachy or Molke. Listen to this last name. Let me spell this for you. Hold on, hold on. I'm going to spell it to me, and I'm going to type it out so that I can look see it. Okay.

Look see it? Yeah. Look see it. M-U-L-C-A-H-Y. Mulcahy? Yeah. That is an interesting one. Yeah, exactly.

Thank you. From now on, he's just going to be Father John because I can't. Father Mulchy. So they had actually talked earlier that day. And Gary had told John that he was the guy who had kidnapped Barbara Mackle and that he needed his help. So he told Father John, you need to tell Robert to get someone to drop the money on the dirt road that runs off of the, and I can't pronounce this highway. So anyway, it's just off this road. What is it, Kristen? Oh, God. To Mamie trial? It can't be. It has to be trail, right? No one calls

it a trial highway, but that's what the article said hang on i'm i'm googling hang on yeah okay it's the it's definitely trail that article had a typo glad we're getting to the bottom of this now to miami it's literally spelled t-a mi. Maybe it's the trail to Miami. You know, that would actually make sense because it does end in Miami. That's what I'm saying. Love it. Love it.

So this time the drop off was successful and the kidnappers got away with the money. Then, on December 20th, Gary called the FBI and gave them super vague directions on where to find Barbara. 100 agents swarmed a wooded area near Duluth, Georgia, where Gary had said they would find Barbara. They searched and searched. Some of them didn't have tools, so they used their hands to dig around. Oh, my gosh. Which, yeah, I don't understand that.

Right? Yeah. I mean, why wouldn't you have tools? Right. Why aren't they going in there with fucking metal detectors? Hey, that's a good, yes. Thank you. They had those in the 70s, right? Absolutely.

I guess it was the 60s. Anyway. So meanwhile, Barbara was lying there underground, couldn't see shit, had no concept of time. And for the first time in days, she was hearing footsteps. She thought it might be the kidnappers, but by that point, she'd spent so much time underground that she did not care. She knocked on the lid of the box. She kept knocking and knocking. And one FBI agent, who was walking nearby, saw fresh red dirt with a dusting of pine needles over it.

Oh my gosh. Then he saw a small ventilation tube poking out just a few inches from the ground and he screamed, Barbara Mackle, Barbara Mackle, this is the FBI. He and a few other agents who were all in suits began digging with their bare hands. They dug until their hands bled. When they finally reached her fiberglass coffin, they yelled for a tire iron to pry it open. And that's how, at four in the afternoon on December 20th, after being buried alive for 83 hours, Barbara Mackle was set free. Oh my gosh. Barbara Mackle was set free.

Oh, my gosh. She was badly dehydrated. She couldn't walk. She looked at the FBI agents. You know, her eyes were trying to adjust. She saw they were all crying. And her first words were, how are my parents? Oh. Yeah.

Cannot imagine. Okay, this just in. What? Metal detectors were invented in 1881 by, and I think this is very interesting, and you're going to like this next part. Okay. By Alexander Graham Bell. Really? Yes.

With the goal to find the bullet in james garfield oh as he lay dying i love it so much yes oh brandy you're speaking to my heart i know oh i love that yes okay well what what's the FBI's fucking excuse? When were shovels invented, right? I mean, like, they show up in suits, in suits, with no shovels and no metal detectors. I mean, I'm glad they found her, but still. So, this was obviously a huge hurdle. Barbara Mackle was safe.

But where the hell were the kidnappers? Well, turns out, shortly after this whole ordeal, some weird guy paid cash for a boat. And he seemed so weird that the guy who sold him the boat was like, I've seen the news lately. This guy seems strange. I'm going to call the cops. But he didn't decide to not sell him the boat, huh? Well, I mean, it's cash money, you know? So the FBI tried to track the guy down, and it didn't take long to realize that they were after the right guy.

But again, where the hell was he? They got a helicopter. And soon enough, they spotted the boat. But by the time they got there, Gary was gone, and he'd left $480,000 in ransom money on board. They searched and searched and searched. Literally everyone and their dog was out searching for gary christ and when i say everyone i mean it was literally to the point that it was like almost not helpful because everyone was so involved but too many too many people yeah yeah A police officer and a butcher from the local supermarket teamed up, and they were out searching in the swamp late at night when they heard sloshing,

and then nothing, and then sloshing, and then nothing. They shined their flashlight in the direction of the noise. And they found a gator. Oh, God. And that's how 12 people died on the search for this douchebag. No, that's how they found Gary Crist sitting on a stump in the Florida swamp. What? In the dark?

Dude's asking to get eaten by an alligator. That's your issue. Yeah. I mean, he deserved to get eaten by an alligator, honestly. Why? Is he the kidnapper? Yeah, he's 100% the kidnapper. I mean, spoiler alert. He's got 18 grand on him and a knife.

And when they shine the light on him, he goes, I'm tired. Oh, gosh. So they arrested him. And then he was like, I'm thirsty. And the cop, the cop was so fed up that he pointed at the swamp water and he goes drink that you son of a bitch oh spicy but where was ruth the fbi truly had no clue so they put her on the fbi's most wanted list and guess what she was the first woman to ever make it on the FBI's most wanted list. And guess what? She was the first woman to ever make it on the list. Hashtag feminism.

Hashtag women are dirtbags too. She was eventually caught a few months after Gary was arrested. Interestingly, she was discovered in Norman, Oklahoma. Apparently, after they got the ransom money, Gary and Ruth were somehow separated and she just thought he'd abandoned her so she fled gary's trial to norman oklahoma yeah i guess i'm i don't know much about her i'll say that off the bat i didn't look into her as much so i don't know if she had ties to norman

she's originally from honduras so i don't really understand fleeing to Norman, Oklahoma. But anyway, who am I to judge the first woman to ever be on the FBI's most wanted list, you know? Breaking down barriers. We can do anything, Brandi. I hope this gives you a lot of courage we can poop if we want to i mean not you and me but maybe other women out there somewhere gary's trial began in may of 1969 in front of a jury of all men he was facing the death penalty that huh How'd they swing an all-male

jury? I, you know, I don't know. I'm starting to lose steam here. This, this story just goes from bad to worse. You know, obviously, although Florida doesn't seem like this type of place, but there were a lot of states where like women had to jump through an extra hurdle just to be put into the jury pool. But it's 1969. I mean, that's, well, I guess, you know, whatever. Yeah. All right. So anyway, the prosecution ran through the whole horrible story, which I'm not going to retell or anything.

But the main thing is that they brought forth a ton of witnesses. They had that poor priest who got roped into this bullshit. They had that dude who sold Gary the boat. They had an FBI agent who testified about what they'd found in the car. A neighbor of Gary's testified that he hadn't been at the trailer park for at least three days in December around the time of the kidnapping, and that when Gary came back to Florida, he'd shaved his beard and he looked unrecognizable. They brought forth 20 witnesses from Emory University who said that they'd seen Ruth and Gary on campus asking about Barbara Mackle. Clearly, they'd been stalking Barbara for quite some time. A woman who worked at a gas...

Why Barbara, though? Are we going to find that out? Um, okay. Okay, so... All right. I hate to even say this. Every article mentions it. I think it's one of those things where people have taken the word of the kidnapper as gospel.

But here's what he said. He said that, you know, he wanted to do a kidnapping and he kind of knew how he wanted to do it. Obviously, we've all been there. Sure, sure, sure. We've all planned this out. Sure, sure, sure. We've all planned this out. And so he had like this long list that he'd gotten, you know, through research of, you know, potential kidnapping victims. But it was very important to him, Brandy, that he select a woman who was, you know, very strong willed and who wouldn't be, you know, undone by. He wouldn't ruin this person's life. Yeah, yeah. That's what he cared about.

He wanted someone very strong willed who could withstand what he was going to put them through. Yeah. Okay. Even modern journalists include this. And I just want to like shake them by the shoulders. Like, do you really think that yeah i don't buy that at all no no this dude wanted money and he wanted to you know pull off this crazy kidnapping to prove how smart he was anyway a woman who worked at a gas station

testified that gary had come in a few days before the kidnapping and asked for a roadmap. She gave him one and he told her, you know, hey, I'm a scientist. I'm doing a science experiment. I'm going to bury a box and I need to do that in an area where people won't be stomping around. Can you point me in the right direction? And she suggested the area where Barbara was later buried alive. Wow. And I guess he, at this point, he had the box in the back of the station wagon.

So she even saw this box. He also went to a number of other gas station workers and asked them kind of the same thing. I guess he was like scouting around trying to get the best spot to bury Barbara. For this portion, I was obviously like doing a deep dive in newspapers.com. And all these articles were like, oh, yeah, you know, many gas station workers testified, but they all wrote about this one. And they were like, she's so beautiful. And she beautifully said the blah, blah, blah. And she sexually said, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you gotta talk about the hot one, Kristen. Oh, oh my god about the guy with the lazy eye where they couldn't tell where he was looking when

he was oh wow i just think it's so funny to read these articles from just a few decades ago and it's just like even one of the articles when talking about the victim of the case they were like you know she's not very photogenic, but when you see her in person, she's quite good looking. And it's like, was that necessary? Right. Woman was buried alive for 83 hours and you're telling the world, hey, the thing is, guys, she's not super photogenic, but don't judge because I kind of got a chub just looking at her in person. At least a half chub. and got a chub just looking at her in person. At least a half chub.

Ruth made brief appearances at Gary's trial, but it was just so that she could be ID'd. During the trial, Gary read a book. Wow. One of the books was The Origins of Biological Systems and of Their Molecular Matrices. Yeah, he's looking super smart. Oh, my God. This guy can shove it up his ass.

That book? Yeah, because I bet it's a big, thick one. And so I hope he does the, what is it, the flu swab? What do you have to do? The strep B swab. I hope he has to do a strep B swab with this textbook. That's what I hope for him. At one point during a break, a reporter asked him if he thought he'd get the electric chair.

And Gary said, that or whatever these barbarous humans use these days. Barbarous humans? Yeah, it's like, dude, you're the one who buried a woman alive. And you're saying that other people are awful? Calm the fuck down. He said he wasn't afraid to die because, you know, and I'm quoting here, there was another man 2,000 years ago who was not afraid to die.

He's comparing himself to Jesus? Uh-huh. Holy shit. Oh, yeah. I think as the story goes on, everyone will see how similar Jesus and Gary were. You're going to have to remind me which one you're talking about because I'm getting very confused. So easy to mix them up. Also, this dude, fuck this dude so hard.

I wasn't, I didn't even, I didn't put this in the script, but I'm telling you now. So leading up to the trial, he like was such a drama queen. He went on a hunger strike and lost 50 pounds. And then he like, I guess guess the prison which this does not seem safe i'll grant him that they didn't have like a cover on an electrical socket and he was like i'll just stick my foot in there and i'll save everyone the expense of putting me to the electric chair blah blah blah you know wah wah wah yeah then then he like attempted suicide but then he said it's impossible for anyone to choke themselves to death i i don't this guy is such oh i don't know if you're picking up on my

vibe here brain but i don't like i'm picking it up i'm picking up what you're putting down kristin okay okay then barbara m Mackle testified. She walked through what had happened to her, and she read the jury a three-page letter that Gary and Ruth had left for her in the coffin. Oh. Here is part of what it said, and again, I was tempted to include the whole thing, but I'm just gonna give you, you know, a taste. Do not be alarmed. You are safe. You are presently inside a fiberglass reinforced plywood, plywood capsule buried beneath the ground near the house in which your kidnappers are staying. Your status will be checked approximately every two hours. The capsule is quite strong.

You will be unable to break it open. Be advised, however, that you are beneath the water table. If you should break open a seam, you will drown. Jesus. Here's how the note ended. Or, I mean, Gary, I'm sorry. What'd you say? I'm sorry, you're cutting out. What'd you say, Gary, I'm sorry. What'd you say? I'm sorry, you're cutting out.

What'd you say? It was a terrible joke. What'd you say? I said, Jesus. And then I said, oh, wait, Gary, I'm sorry. Oh, that's so good. I wish I would have heard that. That's so good.

This is why the coronavirus needs to go away. So we can say this shit face to face. Also, so people are safe. But, you know, you know, yeah. The note ended this way. We're sure your father will pay the ransom. Should he fail to pay, we will release you. So be calm and rest.

You'll be home for Christmas one way or the other. Dead or alive? No, it means don't worry. We're super nice. We're totally level-headed. Don't panic. Oh, okay. All right.

Here's my theory. I think this box had some shoddy craftsmanship, and I think he was terrified that she would be able to bust it open. Probably. And I think that's why he made a point to be like, oh, we live right by this box. We're testing it every two hours. If you even put just a break in the seam, you'll drown. And he laced her water with sedatives, like the whole deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you.

So she only testified for 30 minutes. And my understanding is that she was very, very composed the whole time and not very emotional. And one of the reasons for that was that she knew he was potentially going to get the death penalty. And she felt like, you know, he could have let me die. I really don't want to see him die. Wow. Yeah.

So, the defense called no witnesses. They seriously debated putting Gary on the stand and they flip flopped on that a ton. It was really hard to find like any information about the defense. I think it's because there was just not much put up there. But it seems like every other day in the newspapers, there would be talk of like, oh, yeah, we're going to put him on the stand. Oh, no, we're not. They also thought about taking advantage of a Georgia state law, which says that the defendant in a case can testify in front of the jury without having to go under oath and without having to be cross-examined by the prosecution what the fuck kind of crazy law is that right i had i had never heard of it but it's apparently it's a thing you can do

and it's basically just am i right no this was georgia oh yeah yeah that's right my apology my apologies florida so apparently it's the thing. A defendant can basically, it's basically like just talking to the jury. And usually the jury is instructed like, hey, you know, they're not under oath. They can't be cross-examined. You know, take it for what it's worth. Wow.

Yeah. So there was talk of having him do that, but I couldn't find any evidence that that happened. And I'm sure that if it did, it would have been all over the newspapers. In his closing argument, District Attorney Richard Bell said he'd proved his case almost to a mathematical certainty. He asked the jury to recommend the death penalty. He said, I can't think of any evidence in this trial that warrants mercy. At this point, he had the box that Barbara had been buried in on display, and he walked over to it, flipped open the trap door, and turned on the air pump that had been in there. on the air pump that had been in there.

And he told the jurors that they should all stick their heads inside that trap door, turn that pump on, and imagine what it would be like to be buried in that thing. Woo! Defense attorney James Venable, who was

also an imperial wizard for the National Ku Klux Klan, Excellent. He's a Kru Klux Klan. Excellent. He's a Crunchwrap Supreme. Yeah. Crunchwrap Supreme. What else did we say about those names? It was all Taco Bell names.

Yes. Made his closing argument all about how the FBI sucked ass. What? They'd done a terrible job with the investigation. He told the jury that the FBI would bankrupt the whole United States the way they ran this case, which I'm not sure how that works.

What does that mean? I don't know. There was another quote from him that was, like, so ridiculous. I didn't even understand it, so i didn't even put it in but it was something about like go into the jury room and stay there until roaches come through the keyhole or like it was something very strange very bizarre but you know who am i to question the imperial grand wizard crunch wrap supreme right the jury deliberated for three and a half hours and they found him guilty but they asked the court for mercy wow they thought that he should get life imprisonment which under georgia law at that time would mean that he would be

eligible for parole 15 years or some shit seven years oh my gosh why were they so lenient because they thought he was super smart and he was like jesus because no harm had come to the victim okay what uh-huh uh-huh see this to me this is some like 1960s bullshit we don't understand how things can take a mental toll exactly the trauma that has been inflicted on her that will last a long ass time. But, you know, even Barbara, and so I want to be fair to what she said afterward. She made a big thing of like, you know, I'm fine, which I can understand why you would say I'm fine and why you'd want to put it past you. But I do not believe for one second that you can be buried alive 83 hours and not have that have an effect on you yeah no um but you know because she had

no scrapes and because she'd come out alive i guess the jury was like no big deal wow after the sentence came down gary felt pretty sorry for himself by the way can we talk about the fact that like the choice was death penalty or seven years? Yeah, that's crazy. That's nuts, right? That is nuts. Yeah. Well, was he was was Gary, you know, approximately 82 years old. Unfortunately, he was 23. So, you know, Gary's Gary's feeling very sorry for himself. And

you know, I think we can all agree how sad that would be to do something that was clearly no big deal and get life imprisonment slash just seven years. Yeah. Because the FBI. I feel pretty bad for him. Brandy, the FBI agents, those were the real bad guys here. They were the ones who'd screwed up. They took forever to find Barbara because they hadn't listened carefully to the instructions. Okay. He said, quote,

Despite specific instructions, the dum-dums didn't know where to look. They dug her up with 10 cans because they forgot the shovels. Which, you know, well, I mean, I hate. I mean, this sounds very much like you wrote this quote, Kristen. You know what it is? It is. It sounds exactly like something I would say. I hate to agree with this man on

anything but i mean that is pretty crazy that they didn't bring shovels right yeah yeah and metal detectors yeah and metal detectors don't forget that he knew he could get out in seven years but he was confident that that wouldn't happen. He said, and I mean, if this is not a I love to sniff my own farts kind of quote, I don't know what is. Here's what he said. In the vague and distant future, when I have rheumatism and gout, I will step out of the prison doors onto a moving sidewalk, Give me a fucking break. Uh-huh. Holy shit.

Then, of course he appealed. Duh, because, you know. Obviously. Terrible miscarriage of justice here. His good buddy in the KKK appealed on the grounds that the kidnapping for ransom statute is not defined in Georgia law. So, okay, yeah. Meanwhile, Ruth pled guilty and was sentenced to seven years in prison. But after four years, she was deported back to Honduras.

It'll shock you, but Gary lost his appeal. Oh, good. Okay, dry your eyes, Brandi. We don't have time to cry about it. We just got to move forward. You'll be thrilled to learn that he wrote a memoir in prison. It was called Life, and it was super long, and it talked about all the great sex he'd had. In prison? I know, I assume, I assume, you know, to be fair, I didn't read the book, so I don't know

for sure. Then he tried to escape prison in a garbage truck, but he was caught. to escape prison in a garbage truck, but he was caught. Then, in 1979, just 10 years after he was convicted, Gary Crist was released from prison. What? How did he do it? Well, he cultivated a friendship with the chairman of the Georgia parole board, who must have been dumb as a rock, I'm sorry to say. People were kind of outraged by this decision. The prosecutor had been like, do not let this guy out. The judge in this case was like, do not let this guy out. He's dangerous. So obviously, when Gary was let out, there were articles written about it. But the chairman of the Georgia Parole Board told the New York Times,

the fact is that the victim did live and is totally recovered. Therefore, the net result is little harm was done. No! No. No! No. I would like to bury this guy for 83 hours and see how he feels afterward. Oh, no harm done. I dug you up. Then, his buddy on the parole board helped him get a pardon. So that he could go to medical school.

Holy shit. That's right. Gary became a doctor. Oh, my gosh. He practiced medicine in Indiana until 2003. What the fuck? Yes. He lost his license because he got caught.

And I'm quoting here for lying about a disciplinary action he received during his residency. But another source said that some journalists did some digging and was like, oh, my gosh, this is the guy who kidnapped that woman. And then, you know, he got fired. So I don't know how he actually lost his license but that's the story then in 2006 he was arrested on a sailboat what was he doing on a sailboat he had 31 pounds of cocaine on board. And four undocumented people who had paid him six grand apiece to take them into the United States. Wow. For that crime, he got five years and five months in prison.

But of course, he got out early and was released in 2010. Oh, my gosh. Then, what? I hate this guy so much. But wait, there's more. Then, in 2012, he violated his probation by sailing off to Cuba. So he was sent back to prison for 40 months.

And to be honest with you, I don't know where the fuck he is now. Oh my gosh. As for Barbara Mackle, a few years after the kidnapping, she worked with a reporter and wrote a book about her experience. And I believe she wrote another book the following year. There have been a few TV movies made about the kidnapping. year. There have been a few TV movies made about the kidnapping. But basically, ever since the early 70s, Barbara has kept a very low profile. Every time this douchebag comes back in the news, reporters want to talk to her, but she has turned down every interview. She said, you know, about writing the book, she said she wanted to just get it out there and be done with it forever.

She wanted to just cut ties with the story and put it behind her. I mean, fair, yeah. Yeah, I don't blame her a bit. She went on to marry the man who the kidnappers had said was in an accident that night. Oh, really? Yes. Isn't that interesting? Yes.

Oh, really? know the vehicle and said he was asking for her and you know that's how they got the door open so she and her husband had two children and the last thing i saw was that she still lives in florida and that's the story of an amazingly courageous woman who survived being buried alive Wow. That was nuts. Nuts. Ugh. That, ugh. I hate that guy so fucking much. Yeah. One thing that I thought was kind of fun. So, obviously, they had psychiatrists talk to him a lot before the trial and stuff. And they said that, you know, his ego was just insane, just out of control. And the most important thing to him was that people listen to his story and walk away with the impression of that, like, he was just so smart, so, so brilliant. Oh, good.

I'm glad that I keep you fed that one of the fun tactics they used to get him like to kind of get him out of that that bragging mode was to be like well but here's the thing though man like you say you're so smart but in that volvo you left pictures of yourself like you screwed up here you screwed up there and he would just get irate because he hated hearing about the ways he'd screwed up. He did not want to hear that at all. Of course he didn't. But no, I, so I'm, I keep thinking about that jury. I just, I think it's insane.

I think that, first of all, I think they identified more with him than with her obviously yeah i think they definitely were like oh a brilliant man and yeah i just i don't think there was enough appreciation for like mental health and how being through something traumatic can really affect you, even if you don't have physical scars from it. I mean, it's just, ugh. Yeah. Very aggravating, Brandy. No kidding.

Very aggravating. You want to talk about the Candyman? Yes, although this seems creepy. Am I going to be creeped the fuck out? Something, something, something, something. Although this seems creepy. Am I going to be creeped the fuck out? Something, something, something. Wow, beautiful. Thank you.

So well done, Brandy. You know, I appreciate all the prep time you took to do that song. You're welcome. So there are multiple killers known as the Candyman. This is just one of them. Oh, okay. So keep your panties on. Too late.

Too late. Let me tell you something about these remote episodes. Fully nude. Fully nude. I mean, no one would know. Well, yeah, no one would know, but you know I would never do that. Record fully nude? Yeah, I get cold so easily.

I'm never fully nude. You're a never nude? I'm a never nude. Even in the shower, I've got at least a t-shirt on. Okay. Hold on. Are never nudes a thing? Are people really never nude? No, it's a thing from uh arrested development oh oh oh my god i love that show i don't think it's a real thing okay

unless i pioneer it yeah now on okay so i have had this case bookmarked bookmarked for months and had totally forgotten about it. And then David introduced me to a podcast this week that I was reading. Or I was reading. Yeah, I was reading a podcast. Man, those transcripts are great. Yeah. So I was listening to it and they did a bit on this case.

And so I was like, I have to fucking do it. So the podcast is let's read and it's it's cool it's just like a narrator reading you like creepy stories or people's like weird interactions with people or you know weird little news stories but he has this um very like soothing voice so it's just like a nice thing to have on in the background. Just a nice little creepy story in the background. Yeah, exactly. That's the most on brand thing I've ever heard from you.

Okay, so it's called Don't Read? No, it's called Let's Read. It's an anti literacy podcast. And boy, are they making waves. And then most of the information from this comes from an article for Medium by Lisa Marie Fuqua and an article for Vice by Michael Segolov. That's exactly how you pronounce it. I would never question you it was a rainy halloween night in 1974 in deer park texas or maybe it was pasadena texas both of these there's multiple articles that say different places really they are neighboring towns though oh okay um both deer park and pasadena are suburbs of Houston. We'll allow it. All right.

So Ronald O'Brien is taking his kids out trick-or-treating. His buddy Jim, who also lives in the neighborhood with him, has got his kids. Ronald's got his five-year-old daughter Elizabeth and his eight-year-old son Timothy. And then Jim has, I don't know, two fucking kids, too. I don't know their names. Wow, two fucking kids? My God, we're talking about kids, Brandi. Peter and Paul. I don't know. I don't know, two fucking kids, too. I don't know their names. Wow, two fucking kids? My God, we're talking about kids, Brandy. Peter and Paul.

I don't know. I don't know what their names are. Don't know the town. Don't know the kids' names. My goodness. Listen, this case is from 1974, which means information is limited. Okay, okay. Old-timey disclaimer.

Oh, wow. Good of you to bust that out. So the two dads are taking their four kids around, whatever. So this dude, Jim, was the guy who kind of like stood at the end of the driveway. And Ronald was the one that walked him like up to the door to knock on the door, ring the doorbell, whatever. Okay. So they're on their merry way. It's kind of chilly out, kind of rainy, whatever.

But they stop at one of the houses on the street. And the lights were out, but the kids were like, we're fucking going to that house anyway. And so apparently their parents were like, fuck the rules. And they went up to the house anyway. And they knocked and they knocked and no one answered the door. So the children were like, whatever. And they ran off to the next house. Right.

But Ronald stayed behind for a moment. A couple of minutes later, he catches up to the group, a couple houses up the street. And he is holding five of those giant pixie sticks. Do you know the ones I'm talking about? Oh, yes. Two feet long. Yes. We all know exactly what you're talking about.

Yes. Yes. So he said that he'd kept knocking on the door and eventually someone had opened the door and just handed him out five pixie sticks. I'm sorry. What? Yeah. He had. They had thought that they'd heard someone inside.

And so he was like, all right, you know, I'll stay back for a second. And it paid off. He got five pixie sticks out of it okay so he gives one to all the kids but they only have four kids well then ronald sees this kid that he knows from church so ronald is like the deacon at his local church and he sings in the choir and whatever and so he sees a kid he recognizes from church and he's like here's a pixie stick for you too. Just fucking handing out pixie sticks left and right. Okay. They didn't trick or treat much longer after this. It started to rain pretty hard.

All the kids were pretty cold. And so Ronald took off for home with his two kids. And Jim took off for home with his two fucking kids that I don't know their names, Peter and Paul. You and I know that the best trick-or-treating is when it's raining out do you remember that time 100 yeah it was just the two of us and we went out and like no one else was trick-or-treating so when we went up to people's houses they gave us just like fistfuls of candy oh my gosh people were like dumping their entire bowls in our pillowcases that was the best that was the best

so ronald and his kids get home his wife's there um and she has a weird name i i've never seen this name before in my life danine d-a-y-n-e danine wait You know that name? Yeah, I know a Dineen. You do? Yeah. Spell it for me again. D-A-Y-N-E-N-E. Hmm. I know a Dineen is all I can say. I shouldn't spell it like that.

But anyway, continue. All right, whatever. He gets home. Dineen's at home, you know, whatever. And the kids are all excited. They're sorting through their candy. And the parents tell them, okay, you can each have a piece of candy tonight. And so the kids are, you know, deciding what piece of candy they want.

And Timothy decides that he's going to have this, like, big sucker that he got. And Ronald's like, you don't have time to eat that right now. Pick something else. And so Timothy is, like, putting up a little bit of a fight. And he's like, I want the sucker. I want the sucker, you know, and he's like, have the pixie stick. Like, you can have a giant piece of candy. We just don't have time for you to suck on a sucker for the rest of your life. Yeah. And so Timothy agrees that he'll take the he'll take the pixie stick. So his dad, you know, opens it up for

him but it's like he's having trouble like he's you know trying to eat it but all the powder's really like compact in it he can't get it out and so Ronald helps him a little bit and so he gets some of the powder in his mouth and he's like oh it's really bitter and so his dad's like oh that's weird and so he goes and gets him some kool-aid to wash it down with you know he's just gonna load this fucking kid up on sugar before he spends him to bed so he gives him a glass of kool-aid to wash down like the bitterness of this pixie stick and he kind of puts the pixie stick away and whatever less than an hour later timothy is in the bathroom violently throwing up. Oh, the poor guy. He's so sick. And then he starts to convulse.

Oh. His parents call 911, wait for an ambulance to arrive. And Ronald cradles him in his arms as he's convulsing, waiting for the ambulance to arrive. The ambulance gets there. They load him up. arrive the ambulance gets there they load him up and timothy o'brien dies in the ambulance on the way to the hospital no oh my god all from eating this pixie stick how old is he he's eight oh my god they they do testing on this pixie stick and ultimately find out that the candy has been taken out, at least a portion of the candy has been taken out and replaced with potassium cyanide.

I thought that all of these stories about, like, poison Halloween candy, I thought they were all urban legends. I didn't realize that there was a real story. Hmm. Hmm. Weird. Okay. Continue.

Continue. This sets off a panic in the towns of Pasadena and Deer Park and wherever the fuck else in Houston. Parents start taking their candy into the police stations by the bag full and like asking them to check their kids candy like everybody's afraid to eat any candy and they start looking into where this pixie stick came from. First did this man poison his own child? Kristen if you could keep your fucking pants on. I can't. I told you I'm not wearing anything, not wearing a shred of clothing. So first they have to find the other four pixie sticks, right? Because they had five pixie sticks handed out.

And so Ronald's daughter, Elizabeth, thankfully hadn't eaten hers. They go to Jim, the neighbor, and his kids hadn't eaten theirs. But then there's that kid from church. They have to track that kid down. Right. They track him down. They get to his parents, and his parents are't eaten theirs. But then there's that kid from church. They have to track that kid down. They track him down. They get to his parents

and his parents are looking through his candy. The pixie stick is not in his Halloween candy. And they are freaking the fuck out. They like run up to this kid's room. He's like 10 years old. The kid is laying in bed, like passed out asleep, clutching the pixie stick.

He had tried to get it open, but there was like, they like were closed with like an industrial staple. And he hadn't been able to get the staple out. And so he hadn't eaten the pixie stick. Oh my God. Thank God. No shit, right? So this investigation is like, we got to find the origin of these pixie sticks. Where did what house did you get them from? You know, whatever.

And so they go to Ronald and Jim and they're like, which house did you get these from? And Jim isn't positive. He's pretty sure he knows which house that, you know, Ronald claimed he got them from. And so they take Ronald back to the area that they were trick or treating in. And Ronald is being fucking weird about it. He's like, I don't I don't remember which house it was and they're like okay so walk us through you know walk us through that night you know everybody you guys were all trick-or-treating the kids came to this house you know nobody came to the door so they kept on walking and you stayed and he's like yeah i stayed because i heard somebody walking around inside. And then, you know, the door opened just a tiny bit

and this hairy arm emerged from a crack in the door and handed me these five pixie sticks. And on my way I went. Bullshit. Kristen. A hairy arm. A hairy arm. That's all he could remember.

It was a hairy arm. A hairy arm. That's all he could remember. It was a hairy arm. Mm-hmm. So they've, in the meantime, sent off these other pixie sticks to the lab. Timothy's pixie stick contained enough cyanide to kill two adults. The other four contained enough to kill three to four adults. Oh, my God. Yeah. enough to kill three to four adults oh my god yeah and each of them the top that the way they come sealed from the factory like the top had been cut off they somebody had taken some of the pixie

stick candy out they'd refilled it with this potassium cyanide and then they'd stapled it with an industrial staple and put the like the over. So it looked like legit packaging. Sure. It's just not the way the packaging comes from the manufacturer. Yeah. But whoever had done this had done a good job of making it look like this was legit. That guy with the hairy arm had skills, huh? That's right.

Packaging skills. So the police are like, okay, Ronald, we're really going to need you to tell us where you got this from. And so they take him through the neighborhood again. And this time, he points out the house. He's like, okay, this is for sure the house. And they're like, great, wonderful, perfect. They look into who owns the house. They find the owner. They go go they arrest him they bring him in for questioning turns out this dude has a rock solid alibi really was yeah so his name was courtney melvin okay he was an air traffic controller at hobby airport in houston and he had been at work until 11 o'clock on Halloween night. Well, that's a pretty awesome alibi. Yes.

His wife and daughter had been home that night, but they had run out of candy. So they had turned the light off and were no longer answering the door. Were his wife's arms hairy? No. And 200 people at the airport could confirm that Melvin, that Courtney Melvin was at work that night. Has there ever been a better alibi ever? No shit, right? And so then they had to let this guy go, obviously.

And so they're like, well, what the hell? If it's not him, where did these pixie sticks come from? I've got an idea. And then? They received a phone call. A tip, if you will. I'm sorry. What?

I don't know. I don't know why I'm laughing at that. This call came from an insurance agent and he had his suspicions that something was up yeah because who insures an eight-year-old turns out that ronald o'brien had taken out some pretty hefty life insurance policies on both of his children. And so initially, he had taken out a $10,000 policy on each of them. And that, adjusted for inflation, would be about $51,000 in life insurance. Yeah, that's ridiculous. So he'd taken that out in January. And then, you know, just like a month before Halloween, he'd taken out another

$20,000 on each child. Okay, question. Yeah. Do people even insure their kids? I mean, that's not a thing, right? I thought you... I always had life insurance as a kid. Oh, really? Yeah. Huh. I guess your parents loved you more than mine did. And the only reason I know that is because then when I reached an adult, reached an adult? When I reached adult age, I could then take ownership of it myself and transition it to an adult policy. Oh, okay. Okay. So you had like the Gerber life insurance, whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. Similar. Yeah. One of those kind of things. Yeah. Okay. So, and like the Gerber life insurance, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, similar. Yeah, one of those kind of things, yeah. Okay, so, and those are really like to pay for funeral costs, right? Funeral expenses, yeah. Yeah, okay, okay, I gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But there was some a clause in in these insurance policies that if both children died the policy was like would pay out double oh my god yeah that wasn't what was alarming to the insurance agent though two other things that happened were the first was that apparently ronald o''Brien had called the insurance agent on November 1st to find out when the payout would be coming for Timothy's death. Oh, gross. Yes. And the second was that when this insurance agent had gone to return a call to get more information or whatever, he'd spoken to Deneen. And she was not aware

of the insurance policy's existence at all. Okay. Ronald had taken out these policies without her knowledge. Oh, God. Poor Deneen. Yeah. So now they're like, okay, obviously something's going on here with old Ronald. Yeah.

Our lovely church deacon and singer in the choir and all of that. Real stand-up guy. We're really covering some douchebags this episode, huh? Yes. This is the battle of the douches. It is. It is. And so police start looking into it to find out, like who kills who poisons their own kid first of all

and like what's the motive here turns out did they really not have a guess at the motive when they saw the insurance policy well obviously obviously the motive was money but twenty thousand dollars doesn't seem like enough to kill your own fucking kid does it well i i don't know i haven't really thought about a price tag then again i'm not a mother you're right so it turns out that ronald was hiding a mountain of of debt he was and he was hiding it from denine it seems he was hiding it from Deneen, it seems. He was over $100,000 in debt, which adjusted for inflation. It's about $520,000. The house was in foreclosure. The family car was about to be repossessed.

And he was about to lose his job at the optical company that he worked for because of suspicion of theft from the company. None of this that he'd let Deneen in on, of course. This, oh, okay. Turns out that over the past 10 years, O'Brien had had and lost over 21 jobs. Oh my God. Yeah. How is that even possible? I have no idea.

Did Deneen know? my god yeah how is that even possible i have no idea did denine know i think she knew that he changed jobs frequently sure but i think that he probably could have sold it to her like oh i'm getting this better opportunity yeah you know yeah you know what i'm saying not i've been fired again for been for the 21st time yes how many jobs, you know I'm terrible at math. How many jobs is that per year? It's a little over two jobs a year. 21 divided by 10, Kristen, is not difficult. Listen, it's 2.1 jobs a year. Hey, Brandy, I have a tumor, so you can't make fun of me. You know, the tumor is taking away some of my brain power.

Normally, I'm a genius, just like Gary Crist. If you hear, you know, two jobs a year, that doesn't sound that crazy. But if it's every year for 10 fucking years, that's a lot of fucking jobs. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. And so the police were like, gosh, you know, I think that this Ronald guy might be making up the story about the hairy arm.

What the fuck? What? Oh, my God, David, you scared the shit out of me. What did David do? He just, like, snuck up behind me. David. He came to the kitchen for a beverage, but he, like, I couldn't hear him at all because I have my headphones on, obviously. And he placed his hand gently on my shoulder.

That's the creepiest thing he could have done. Was he trying to like give you a heads up or was he trying to scare you? No, I think he was trying to give me a heads up, but he didn't in fact scare me. I think I peed a little. Oh, my God. Well, I know you didn't poop a little. That's for sure. I did not.

What beverage did he get himself? He got himself a beer. Damn it. See? Very rude of him to do that in front of us in our present conditions. In front of us, yes. You wouldn't drink a beer. No, I wouldn't. I'm not even remotely tempted by a beer. But I mean, I have spent many an evening the past week just being like, I would sure like a cocktail. I would love a cocktail right now.

or sure, Ronald has made up the story about the hairy-armed man and just happening upon these giant pixie sticks, and they think he's poisoned his own kid, and was willing to kill other people's kids to make it look like a stranger had done it. What a monster. That, to me, is like the worst part of it. I mean, I think it's all pretty bad. I think it's bad enough, yes, that he poisoned his own kid, but you were willing to take out three other people's or, you know, three random kids to help make your story look more legit.

Horrible. It's not like he only gave his son the poisoned pixie stick. They were all poisoned. Well, and did he really think he would get away with this? I mean, you're trick-or-treating in a neighborhood, you know. Yeah. Come on. Right. Yeah. way with this i mean you're trick-or-treating in a neighborhood you know yeah come on right yeah so the police start looking into ronald and they start talking to some of his co-workers

and and former co-workers and whatever and uh one of them's like yeah you know what's weird i hadn't really thought about this till now but yeah ronald one day asked me if i knew where you could buy potassium cyanide if you had to have any kind of like you know special note from a chemist to be able to buy it or if just anyone could wander into a store and buy it just casual conversation exactly now that you mention it it is pretty weird what and then they went and talked to this professor at harris county community college which apparently ronald was taking classes at um and so he this professor's like yeah you know now that you mention it ronald was a little weird one day after class he kind of stuck around and uh he had some questions about poison.

And he wanted to know, like, how much it would take to kill, you know, specific, like, varying sized animals. So he's trying to find out how much cyanide he needs to give. And so he's giving, you know, using the cover of Ask About Animals until he gets to an animal about the size of a small child. Yeah. Yeah. cover of asking about animals until he gets to an animal about the size of a small child yeah yeah another guy comes forward after this story has blown up you know and made news because initially this made big news because it set off this huge panic everyone was panicked sure yes and so this guy comes forward and he's like yeah um i recognize that ron guy. Couple days before Halloween, he came into my workplace, which is this wholesale chemical store. And he wanted to buy cyanide.

I remember him because I thought it was really weird. He had made up some story about something or other. But he found out that the minimum quantity that we sold at our wholesale place was five pounds. And so he left without buying any. That's a lot. That seems like a shit ton of cyanide. That seems like way more than you should be allowed to buy. I agree.

I agree. So all of this information then warrants a full search of the O'Brien home. And so they go and, goodness gracious, O'Brien home. And so they go and goodness gracious, they find the cut pieces off the top of the pixie stick packaging, like the original packaging. He couldn't even bother to throw that away. I mean, seriously, they find a pocket knife that has the plastic and the candy like from them still on the blade. Okay, the laziest crime ever oh yeah did no i mean i think that shows that i guess he's just super cocky right like nobody's gonna figure out that i did this or an idiot i mean he sounds like an idiot yeah that so that's when they so they at this point they've gotten

that call from that insurance agent and they find out all the stuff about you know if he would get a hundred thousand dollars essentially if he could get both of his kids to die and then he'd be he'd be in good shape oh yeah of all of his debt oh yeah i'm sure after that he'd be in good shape. Oh, yeah. Take care of all of his debt. Oh, yeah. I'm sure after that, he'd become super financially responsible. And then he'd be like set for life, right? Yeah, I think that's exactly right. So it shockingly did not take them long to put all of this together. And Ronald O'Brien was arrested on November 5th. My goodness.

Yes. So he was indicted on one count of capital murder and four counts of attempted murder for giving those pixie sticks to those other poor kids. And he, now this might surprise you, Kristen. He pled not guilty to all charges. God, he's such an idiot. Yes. Okay. And he stuck by his not guilty claim and went all the way to trial.

Oh. Trial started. Love it. Love it. Yes. Thank you. Trial started on Cinco de Mayo, 1975. Okay.

Ronald was still, you know, clinging to his claims that he was innocent. That hairy arm did it. That's right. Legit, the defense in this case is what you mentioned, the urban legend about people handing out tainted candy. Really? people handing out tainted candy. Really? So the whole defense was that that's not an urban legend,

that really happens, and it happened here. Well, yeah, I mean, that's the only defense you can come up with, right? I mean, what else are you going to say? Yeah. But the prosecutor had a mountain of evidence. Yes. They called a chemist, that chemist who worked with Ronald and had talked about where you could buy cyanide. He talked about, you know, how much would you need to give someone for it to be fatal, whatever. That guy at the chemical supply store, he testified

and said, you know, yeah, I recognized Ronald as coming in to buy the cyanide, but he wanted, Ronald is coming in to buy the cyanide, but he wanted he didn't want to buy five pounds. That was the one thing that they could not prove in this case. They don't know where ultimately he was able to buy the cyanide. They were friends and co-workers who testified and talked about, yeah, how in the months leading up to Timothyothy's death ronald talked about cyanide a whole shit ton and then also talked about how he'd be coming into some money soon oh wow uh-huh yeah then that guy jim who had gone trick-or-treating with ronald he talked about how they had all when they'd been trick-or-treating that night i guess guess all of them had gone back to Jim's house at first before Ronald took his own kids back to his house.

And apparently, Jim's kid, you know, Peter or Paul, I can't remember which fucking one. Wait, aren't they both made up? Because I made up their names. Yeah. Had wanted to open that pixie stick. And at the time, like, Jim hadn't really thought anything of it, but he said that, like, when this kid went to open that pixie stick while Ronald and his kids were still at the house,

Ronald practically broke the coffee table, leaping over it to take it from him. Whoa. And he mumbled something about that being too much sugar to have before bed. Which you would not say to someone who was not your own kid. No. Ridiculous. Yes.

Yeah. And then Ronald's wife testified about how she didn't know anything about their debt situation, didn't know anything about the life insurance policies. I think by this point she had already filed for divorce. Oh, for sure. From Ronald. I mean, yeah. And her, I believe, her sister, it just says Ronald's brother and sister, or brother-in-law and sister-in-law. So I'm guessing these would be Deneen's, you know, sister and her husband. I'm not positive, though. They testified how Ronald had talked to them at Timothy's fucking funeral about how he was going to use the insurance money to go on vacation

and make some purchases that he'd been wanting. Because that's what you talk about at your kid's funeral. What an evil person. Seriously. Seriously. Seriously. The jury deliberated for. Oh, forever, right? Just, oh.

46 minutes. Okay. Before convicting Ronald on all charges. No. And then they deliberated for another 71 minutes when it came to sentence. And it's Texas, so I'm guessing you can guess what his sentence was. He didn't get out after seven years, I can tell you that. They sentenced him to death. Yeah.

So he was immediately sent to prison and put on death row. And he appealed his case extensively for the next 10 years and it was in prison that he was given the nickname candy man obviously he was not popular in prison as a as we've talked about before because he was known as a child killer and so he was often have to have like he was often put in protective custody or, you know, death row is already basically protective custody, but he wasn't even safe there, apparently. His first execution date was scheduled for August of 1980. And he was able to get a stay of execution at that point. Another one was scheduled for May of 1982. That date was also postponed. So this is all, there was a time in the 70s when the death penalty was ruled unconstitutional throughout the United States.

Like it was a federal ruling. And so this was, when these execution dates were set, this was like when they were first going to be doing executions again in the united states and so it kept getting delayed because they would argue that it was unconstitutional and it would get delayed his third execution date was scheduled for halloween night 1982 yes really yes and the judge when he, when the judge scheduled that execution date, he offered to personally take Ronald O'Brien to the death chamber. Ew. He was like ready to have this sentence imposed. And he thought there was something so, you know, poetic just to see about, know putting him to death on on october 31st and at this time he would have been the first person in texas executed by lethal injection they had just so the judge was just like raring to go i guess so But again, this date was delayed.

And finally, he was scheduled for March 31st of 1984. And his final stay of execution was rejected. March 31st, 1984, he had his last meal. He got a T-bone steak, medium well, French fries and ketchup, corn, sweet peas, lettuce and tomato salad with egg and French dressing, an iced tea with saltines, and Boston cream pie for dessert. and Boston cream pie for dessert. He released a statement prior to, so he didn't do like a, he gave a note as his final statement instead of like making a verbal statement

prior to his execution. He said, what is about to transpire in a few minutes is wrong. However, we as human beings do make mistakes and errors. This execution is one of those wrongs. Yet it doesn't mean our whole system of justice is wrong. Therefore, I would forgive all who have taken part in any way in my death. Also, to anyone I have offended in any way during my 39 years, I pray and ask for your forgiveness, just as I forgive anyone who has offended me in any way.

Offended? Offended. Offended. Oh, it offended me when you murdered our child. Yeah. It offended me when you tried to murder my child. Yes. Yeah, offended is definitely the appropriate word.

Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. And? child yes offended is definitely the appropriate word uh-huh and i pray and ask god's forgiveness for all of us respectively as human beings oh well that's mighty good of him including everyone in the prayers everyone yes yeah to my loved, I extend my undying love. Hmm. To those close to me, know in your hearts, I love you, one and all. God bless you, and may God's best blessings be always yours. Signed, Ronald C. O'Brien. P.S.

Oh, good. Good. O'Brien. P.S. Oh, good. Good. During my time here, I've been treated well by all the Texas Department of Corrections personnel. Okay. Yeah. So his execution was carried out just at like right at midnight. There was a crowd of demonstrators that gathered outside of the prison during his execution. And so there were like supporters who were glad that he was being executed. And then there were anti-death penalty demonstrators there too. So the supporters yelled trick or treat and threw candy at the anti-death penalty demonstrators during the execution. I mean, that sounds great to me.

And yeah, this is the only case where someone actually died from tainted candy. And it was not given by a stranger. It was intentionally given to someone. And it spawned a lot of those urban legends that you hear about. It is believed that not a single child has ever died or even been seriously harmed by candy they have received from a stranger on Halloween. Wow. This guy has also been called, in addition to being called the Candyman, he's also been called the man who ruined Halloween because people were terrified to go trick-or-treating for years after this. Yeah.

Ugh. Yeah. That was a good one. That was crazy. I mean, I just can't understand that willing to take out other people's kids in addition to his own i mean what a monster yeah but again it had i don't know it it reminds me of a lot of the family annihilators you've covered. I know, that's why I like it.

I mean, I use the term like loosely. But I mean, like, it's the dude. And there's some kind of financial thing that he feels like he just can't explain to people. To his own family. And so instead of just coming clean oh the solution is to murder people yeah toxic masculinity brandy it's a thing it is google it is a real thing should we do some questions from our lovely discord let's do some questions from our discord okay here we go let me pull a whole bunch oh oh you guys are out tonight and by that i mean staying home

and staying home by your computers anxiously awaiting answers. Ooh, I like this one. Maggie, this one's to you, Brandy. Maggie asks, how many tattoos do you have and which one hurt the most? I have nine total, but have gotten 10 because one of my tattoos is a coverup. And that is the one that hurt. That goofy tattoo.

I mean, it seemed good at the time my cover-up is the one that hurt the most because it's huge it's like super colorful and it took forever it was three five hour sessions it's my favorite tattoo on you though oh it's my favorite too I love it so much beautiful yeah but yeah so So I've gotten 10, but I only technically have nine. I guess that tattoo's still under there. So does that count? No, it's gone. Carl's147 asks, is there any cases you want to do, but there aren't enough court details about it?

Oh, my God. So many. So many. Yeah. So there's one, this is gross. This is gross. And I can't even remember enough of the details about it. But I just know that I heard about it. And I was like, oh my gosh, I have to do this. And there's just not that much to it. But there is this gym, I think it's in New York City. And this guy, God, I hope I remember the details. But anyway, this guy went to the showers after a workout, and he slipped in something and he

became injured. Was it semen? Did he slip in semen? Yes. Do you know this case? No, no, that just seems like what he'd slip in. Okay, so he slipped in semen. And so the argument was like, you know, he's saying that this is like a known cruising spot. These dudes are just like hooking up all the time in the gym shower. And this gym should know that. And they should be like, you know, making sure people are safe or like putting down a mat or something. I don't know. Bottom line, I thought it was very interesting because of the power packed gobs of you know what. Yeah.

There's just not enough court stuff on it. Yeah. So I'm sorry. There's a case that I love, but there's, it's just, there's nothing to it. But I think it's so funny. This guy, and I don't remember where this was, but it's somewhere where it's illegal to talk on your cell phone while you're driving, was pulled over and ticketed for talking on his cell phone while driving. And he swore that he was not talking on his cell phone. Instead, he was eating a delicious hash brown from his breakfast, like a McDonald's hash brown.

And the police officer thought it was his cell phone he ended up like the ticket was like $300 and he ended up spending like over a thousand dollars in court costs to fight this ticket uh-huh on principle was he right though I mean was it just a hash brown or do we have no way of knowing I think it was just a hash brown I think he ended up getting his ticket dismissed oh my god you see there are so many fun cases just like that where there's like nothing to them. Yes. Oh. Ozymandias King asks, if you could choose one word to describe your friendship, what word would you choose and why?

I'd call it dangerous. Intensely sexual. Oh, God. Is that hyphenated? Okay, I did cheat a bit there. I'm sorry. Just sexual, but all caps. No, what word?

Oh, gosh, I don't know. What word would you choose? I don't know what word would you choose i don't know fun um yeah have a lot of fun with the best just the best just the best oh jetty mark asks what is the worst part of being in isolation okay for me and you know that this is legit for me it's not fucking talking to people yeah like i during the day i am home by myself and there's no one to talk to and i'm used to talking to people all day long but have you what have you become a phone person yet like i know you're you're a tester i am so not a phone so not a phone person. Well, how are you living, Brandy? How are you doing it? I think, like, I probably just talk David's ear off once he gets home.

You're like an excited puppy. Yes. For me, the worst part of being in isolation is this fucking tumor. Yeah. No, so. My, really, like, before this tumor, I was kind of making it through isolation by going on really long walks. And, you know, that was kind of like my thing. I would go for a run outside.

I'd go for a big walk in my neighborhood. And that really helped. But with this fucking tumor, I'm just in the recliner all day and i feel like oh my gosh like my i'm like i have to stretch now because i'm all i'm like a big rubber band now anyway oh wow this is a rude question smashley wants to know what you're drinking tonight i'm currently on my fifth glass of sauvignon blanc wow smashley wow thanks a lot very rude i'm on my fifth glass of water over here i'm about halfway through this diet ocean okay maggie also wants to know if you had to kick a type of dog in the face that wasn't a corky which dog would you kick too soon maggie too soon

mind alive wants to know money is not an issue What type of house is your dream and in what setting? My favorite style of house is craftsman. So I would pick a craftsman house. In what setting? I don't know what setting. I like living in the suburbs, so I'd probably, you know, I'd probably stay here. Okay, I would do a really nice log cabin in the Rocky Mountains. Ooh, yeah.

Yeah. Can I come stay at your log cabin? Sure. I mean, you could always just build your own right next to mine. But no, you've got to stay in the suburbs of Johnson County. Yes, you can come visit. Excellent. Oh, okay. how about this this is a good question for us to answer in our current state schmarles barkley wants to know what is your least favorite alcohol to drink yeah we should be thinking about

our least favorite i've talked about mine before. It is fireball. I cannot handle it. Well, to be fair, it's not like you had one sip and you were like, this isn't for me. No, I drank way too much of it and threw up in my yard and I have yet to drink it since then. And that was many moons ago. That was several months ago now. No, I, no i you know what oh the one i do not like what's the one that tastes like black licorice jagermeister no no no there's one sambuca sambuca yeah not a fan not a fan of sambuca i don't understand how people do that yeah i don I don't like black licorice, so I certainly don't want my alcohol to taste like black licorice. You know what's another thing? To be fair, I'm pulling a brandy here.

I've never tried this, but I think I would hate it, so I'm just going to say I hate it. White Russians. Oh, no, they're delicious. You're wrong. I don't know, man. Milk? So good. Milk?

I mean, what am I, a drunk five-year-old? I don i mean what am i a drunk five-year-old i don't know i'm a drunk five-year-old oh they're good fixin lunch wants to know what was your favorite age growing up and why i'd say like 16 oh what was it about 16? You get, like, that taste of freedom. You get your driver's license and, like, you know, I had my, I had a job, so I felt like I was, like, ooh, look how grown up I am. You were very grown up. But then you didn't actually have any real responsibilities yet. Yeah, you just felt like you were super fucking rich, right? That's right, yeah.

That's how Norman talks about his, like, dairy queen job. You know, when, like, all your money is going to kind of, like, whatever you want, basically. Yeah. Man, feels good. You know, okay, I've heard Conan O'Brien talk about this, and it made me feel less alone. He talks about how, like, he really didn't like being a kid.

Like, he wanted to be an adult and that's kind of how i felt yeah does that does that track yeah no i actually never really yeah i've i've never really felt like a kid like i i don't yeah i always felt like ready to be older, I guess. Yeah. I guess for me, I really liked our senior year of high school. Yeah. It's a good year. It's a good year. Solid year. Sevens87 asks, what is one thing on your bucket list?

I have a stupid one. What is it? I want to pet a baby lion between the eyes. Brandy, no. No, Brandy, no. I'm not going to do it because I'm not going to. But this has been on my bucket list since I was like 12 years old. I'm not going to do it.

I will not support, you know, those frickin' crazy zoos like on Tiger King. But it just looks like the softest fur you've ever felt in your life. I mean, it's got to be. Right? Yeah. Like, literally, my mom will tell you that has been, like, the thing I've wanted to do since I was, like, 12 years old. What if we just let you pet Kiki? I mean, she's pretty crazy.

That's not the same. That is my favorite place to pet cats, though. Okay, what else is on your bucket list? I don't know. That's the first thing that comes to mind. Okay, so for me, it's getting a book published. But a more fun one, well, no, that would be really fun. Yeah, I would say that's plenty

fun yeah but honestly when i think about my bucket list now i think you and me norman david european tour with podcast absolutely that would be so amazing oh my Tiana asks, do you have any goals for the podcast? Something you want to improve or change? Yeah, take over the world, obviously. I'd like to improve my co-host. I'm thinking of... No, I mean, we've got to eventually get our act together and do merch at some point. Yeah, that is.

That's the big thing is that we've got to do merch our act together and do merch at some point that is that's the big thing is that we we're we've got to do merch gotta do merch yeah i do at some point like i think we should do live shows at some point yeah and you know i don't know i'll have to do a shot of sambuca or something to get me yeah you do a shot of sambuca i'll do a shot of Sambuca. I'll do a shot of Fireball. We'll be real set. Oh, my gosh. Ooh, Tag Horser wants to know, you talk about nice houses a lot. What are your favorite architectural features that have fallen out of fashion? Banisters. Ugh.

Oh, you mean obviously houses still have banisters, but I love like old-timey banisters. Ugh. It's like my favorite feature. You know, okay, I'm kind of cheating on this question a little bit. immaculately maintained but the style has not changed one bit from like either the 50s 60s or 70s and specifically i love like in the 70s there was no like flow you know from room to room where like all the walls are the same color and the same flooring throughout. No, it was like, this room is the blue room. And we've got blue shag carpeting, blue paint on the walls, and blue floral drapes. And in the next room, that's the green room. And that's bright green carpeting.

I just kind of love that every room feels completely different. And I feel like you don't see that in houses today. Yeah. What else is there that we love? Ooh. Okay. I love, even though they're not energy efficient at all, old windows. Yeah.

Like the old kind of wood windows, classic windows. I think that's beautiful. I love a craftsman style front door so do you know what that is like it has the at the very top it's got like three rectangular windows oh yeah i love that okay okay i could put one of those on my house yeah who's to stop you that would look cute on my house maybe i should do that unless you've got some crazy HOA. Do you have a crazy HOA? No, I don't have a crazy HOA. We got warned about ours.

About your HOA? Did I tell you about this? About your front door. No, no, no. About our HOA. So our garage door, just over the course of this crazy quarantine, became completely busted. And we found out from our neighbor that apparently this thing has been busted for like forever but the old owners of the house just like kept like i don't know duct taping the thing together tape on it yeah which is kind of crazy because it's really

not that expensive to get a new garage door it's like kind of surprisingly not that bad. But anyway, so we got a new garage door. And, you know, we tried to keep it in. Ballers. That's right. I don't mean to brag to you guys. But, yeah, we got it. But we did it like in keeping with the style of the house. And, you know, we didn't do like a wacky color or anything.

And our neighbor was like. You didn't do like a hot pink garage door? Hot hot pink garage door just let people know we got a new purchase and our neighbor was like hey just so you know you might want to look out you're supposed to clear that with the hoa and so luckily well luckily no one said anything but it's like good grief it's my damn house oh boy split pea wants to know about our first kisses oh god yeah i was terrible yeah yours was terrible i was terrible he kissed like a lizard well and he grew up to be like a horrible human being oh i wasn't even counting that one oh no in the fourth grade i was counting like a real kiss. Oh, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Well, who were you? Yeah, in the fourth grade, I kissed a boy. Well, yeah, I kissed a boy on the playground. He did grow up to be a rough human being. Yeah. But, okay, was your first... Yeah.

Oh, poor... At homecoming. He's a delightful human being. It's a rough first kiss. That tongue was dirty everywhere. No, God. Yeah, for me, it was just like, where was mine? I can't.

Mine was at the homecoming dance. Oh. I think mine was on, like, my first date, and we went paddleboarding. Paddleboating. Paddleboating, sorry. Oh, where you, like, do the... Yeah, it's one of those things that sounds romantic and cool, but it's really just, like, awkward when, you know, you're 16 and you have no idea what to say to anybody. Yeah.

I mean, I still have no idea what to say to anybody. Yeah. I mean, I still have no idea what to say to anybody. I was wearing, I can tell you everything. I was wearing hot pink capri pants, black flip flops. And then do you remember those? Platform flip flops? No, no, no. Because, you know, I'm very tall and he was not much taller. So, you know, got to do what you got to do.

And then I was wearing one of those black, like, one-shoulder tops, kind of like that Tarzan look. Oh, getting pretty racy for your first date. I was looking pretty hot at the Shawnee Mission Park lake. Let me tell you. lake. Let me tell you. Marius asks, what are your adoption stories of your pets? Barker, my Italian greyhound. When I was the manager at one of the first salons I ever worked in, there was a girl that worked for me and her, I don't even remember, it was like her boyfriend's parents knew somebody who had Barker and they didn't want him anymore because he was a puppy and they had like two 17-year-old dogs. Oh, yeah, that's too much. Yeah. And they were, and they, like his energy level just could not match.

Yeah. They were constantly having to like put him in a kennel and stuff like that. And so they told them that they needed to find this puppy a home. And so she was talking about at work one day and I was like, I'll take him. And so that's how we and it turns out that he was being abused. And so. Oh, my gosh. How'd you find that out? He's super.

Well, so his behavior was really odd when we first got him. He was like super timid. And so they found out, especially around men, they found out that the male really didn't like him because he was like super timid and so they found out especially around men they found out that the the male really didn't like him because of he was a puppy and he you know had to be trained and they weren't used to that because they had 17 year old dogs yeah and so it took a long time to like get him to like trust us and and whatever and he's still very timid around men, specifically. He likes Norm, though. He likes Norm a lot. Well, Norm's got that fun dad energy. That's right.

What about Oliver? Well, Oliver, so Oliver was, he was like a reject from a breeder. How rude. And I don't really know why. He was the runt, I guess. And so, yeah, he was like the leftover of a litter. And so, yeah, we rescued him. Hell yeah.

So he probably came from a puppy mill, I'm guessing. Yeah. I don't know that for sure. Yeah. But, yeah, it was a weird, like, Craigslist situation. But there was something about him they would they couldn't sell him or something and so yeah he ended up having to be adopted out instead of being sold for like their crazy purebred prices yeah so for me i got peanut when i was living in north carolina

and when i'd like just moved down i'd moved down to New Bern. And I was dating this guy. And I, growing up, I was always a cat person. And so I wanted a cat. But my boyfriend was allergic to cats. And so I knew I wanted some kind of pet because it was just me alone in this apartment. I just gotten my first job. And I wanted something. So I decided one day that I was just going to go look at the shelter, which is, like, ridiculous. Yeah, of course. I went just to look, and I was looking at all these dogs and everything, and then, like, I'm going to cry. I came across Peanut, and she was so little. Oh, I'm going to cry.

I came across Peanut and she was so little. And I knew that I wanted a very small dog because I was in an apartment. So I saw this little bitty dog. I knew nothing about dogs. I got the paperwork on her. It said she was an adult male named Scoops. And so I got her. She was covered in fleas. Oh poor peanut she oh god she was so sweet though she I I had nothing I had no I had no leash I had nothing for her because it was like an

impromptu trip to the pound and so I drove to PetSmart and, you know, started getting all her stuff. And, you know, people were like, oh, how cute, how cute. And this employee came up to me and was like, oh, you know what? How old's your puppy? Blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, no, she's not a puppy. I just got her. She's an adult dog.

And the woman looked at me like I was 10 kinds of stupid. And she goes, well, look at how big her paws are. Look at how big her head is compared to her body. Like, you don't have an adult dog. You've got a puppy. And by the time I got Peanut home and gave her a bath, and of course, I was like way too attached but initially I was like what the hell but I just fell crazy in love with her she was so good she would follow me everywhere and yeah I remember when my boyfriend came home he was like yeah that's that's not an adult dog and I remember sending pictures to my mom and Kyla, and they were both like, how on earth did you see this dog and think it was an adult dog? I'll have to post a picture of her in the Discord because her head was huge. Her head was huge.

Her paws were huge. And then Kiki, Norman did not want another pet, but it was my birthday. And I was like, the only thing I want is another animal. Norman did not want another pet, but it was my birthday. And I was like, the only thing I want is another animal. So kind of twisted his arm like a true douchebag. And so I went to two different shelters. And at the second shelter, Kiki was just like the weirdest kitten there. Like she was playing with everybody and like of all the cats I picked up she was the one who just was instantly comfortable and started

giving herself a bath on my lap and you know this whole time you know Norman didn't go with me because he was not interested you know yeah not not excited about this cat man i pulled up into the driveway and so cute oh my gosh i pulled up into the driveway with her in her little crate he came out and he looked at her and he got the biggest smile on his face and he goes yeah who's this little lady oh and ever since that cat she she has forgotten who picked her up from the shelter yeah she is in love with norman and if she's ever on my lap he gets jealous and he will lure her over to his lap it's ridiculous but i'm okay so both both Barker and Oliver are breeder rejects. Really? So, yes.

So Barker was, like, supposed to be bred as a show dog, but he has what are called button ears. So his ears, they're so cute because of it. They fold forward instead of staying back. Yeah. But that's, like, a huge mark off as a show dog. And so, yeah. So he was a, yeah, exactly. I love that. the muscular build like a bulldog typically has and he's got really long legs so yeah so they were both they couldn't neither of the breeders could sell them because they have defects and i'm saying that in air quotes because they're the best dogs well i mean it did seem like a defect when oliver peed on the front porch he was asserting his dominance he was afraid that you guys were

trying to take over his porch well you know he won because we did not set foot on that porch and you know i was thinking of going in and robbing the place but after that i was like this dog's unpredictable yes i will not do it well should we wrap up here yeah that was so fun so fun. It's been a fun episode. Well, I mean, the cases, I mean, those guys were the worst. They were great guys, Kristen. Just totally misunderstood by everyone. That's right.

Did you even listen to this episode? I'll be honest, I did tune out even during my own case. Thank you guys for supporting us. We appreciate it so much. I mean, we say it every one of these bonus episodes, but you guys make this so much easier for us to do. And we can't thank you enough for all of your continued support. Absolutely. Way to jump in there, Kristen.

You know, we thank you guys every time. Sometimes we mean it. This time we do. Should I cut down everything you said? No, we really do. We really do appreciate you guys. I never know how far to go with this, but it's just, you know. I mean, you haven't kissed their entire buttholes yet. Oh, wow.

I will now give you guys the full swab. Here's the thing, guys. No, I mean, Patreon is how we're able to do this. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing more to say than that. This is how we're able to keep going. So we really, really do appreciate you guys. Yeah.

What she said. All right. All right. Give us the outro, Brandy. Yeah. You know, join us next month for another bonus episode. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Bonus episode adjourned.

Hey, that sounded like we said it in sync. I'm sure it's not. I don't think we did. Oh, but it sounded good. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts.

I got my info from newspapers.com, the court documents, the Miami Herald, and allthingsinteresting.com. I got my info from an article for Medium by Lisa Marie Fuqua, an article for Vice by Michael Segolov, the Houston Chronicle, and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours. Please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.