Let's Go To Court! - 132: Brandi's Back & the Black Widow of Keller, Texas

Episode Date: July 22, 2020

Michelle Williams called 911 in a panic. She’d woken up from on her living room couch to a loud bang. She groggily made her way to the master bedroom, only to be struck in the face by a man dressed in black. When she came to, she made her way to the bed. Her beloved husband Gregory Williams lay dead from a gunshot wound. The intruder had shot Gregory with his own gun. At least, that’s what Michelle initially told police.  Then Brandi comes back from maternity leave to tell us a truly horrifying tale about being in labor for 50+ hours. Brandi battled pain, hunger, and a very pushy lactation specialist, but in the end, it was all worth it. London Lyric Pond was born in the wee hours of June 19, 2020. She is absolutely perfect. And here’s a fun fact for your Tim Pounds journal -- she looks EXACTLY like Tim Pounds! And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Temptation in Texas” episode of 48 hours  “‘Black widow’ breaks down in tears while looking at photos of husband’s body at her murder trial as prosecutors claim she was driven by greed when she shot him,” by Snejana Farberov for the Daily Mail “Closing arguments in Keller murder trial set for Monday,” by Chris Van Horne for NBCDFW In this episode, Brandi pulled from: Her life!

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll talk about the black widow of Keller, Texas. And I'll be talking about...

motherhood. Brandi, who's that you got right there? This is baby London! You guys, if you can hear a little cute snoring, that's London. She's sleeping right now, so sorry if you can hear her. She's very loud. Much like her mother. That's right.

This will be in my review. Brandy, I'm so glad you're back. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad to be back. Aw, looks so cute and snuggly over there this thing was inside of me the last time i was here sorry i was about to say were you gonna say a disgusting joke kristin yeah do it you could say the same thing about david and i'm sorry i don't look at him with awe in my eyes so i asked him what we were getting when i was like yeah we're gonna go i'm gonna record i'm gonna

talk about you know my birth story you know that's everything you think that i should talk about like anything i should make sure i mentioned he He's like, well, you know, I'd probably just get straight to the birth. I'd skip like the how it happened part. People don't know. You don't want to scare them. No, you have quite the birth story, ma'am. I do have a birth story to share. It wasn't just whim bam boom.

Ooh, is it? Bobsled. Whim bam boom? What's it supposed to be? I don't know but enough of that okay before we get into the business yeah we need to say something yeah okay you guys we added a new tier on patreon this week um three whole people asked for an ad free tier on patreon and we were like okay i guess asking you so we have a new tier on patreon for ten10 a month. You get ad-free episodes. You also get episodes a day early. Not saying, like, necessarily Tuesday morning, but we'll do our best.

Yeah, you'll get it out, you know. And, yeah, we had a lot of people sign up. We really appreciate it. Oh, my gosh. We were stunned by the response. I cried more than once. No, we were really, really excited by the response. We appreciate it. If you sign up at

that $10 level, that's the Bob Moss level, which puts you above the Supreme Court. Above the law. Above the law. But that gets you ad-free episodes, episodes a day early. Plus, you get into the Discord. You get a monthly bonus episode. Brandi, are you touching the mic? I feel like somebody's been sitting in my chair. mic was just okay goldilocks someone also ate your porridge i didn't hear you complaining about that anyway um is it okay if i continue yeah all right where was i um you also get monthly bonus videos you get into the discord you get a sticker you get a card with our lovely autographs and you know the occasional case update what more do you want what more could you want we don't care don't don't ask for anything else hey if three more people ask for something we will do it that's

right we're like beetlejuice you get asked three times and then we'll do it do you want to go first no you don't do that nobody wants to hear about that right off the top you tell your story and and then we'll do it. Do you want to go first? No. Nobody wants to hear about that right off the top. You tell your story and then I'll bring up the rear. I mean, my story is about a black widow. Yeah. And you think that your story is a little too heavy to go first? No, no, no, no. I think that this way people who don't give a shit about my birth story can listen

to the case that they came to hear and then they can stop listening and they don't have to hear me talk if they don't want to hear about your holes yeah all of them okay all right all right i'll get right to it brandy i have one hell of a case for you the black widow the black widow baby do you want me to sing more of it? I can. Please don't. I can. Please don't.

Okay, so first of all, thank you to Lisa Kay in the Discord for suggesting this amazing case. I believe it's pronounced Lee-sack. I don't think so. She was even so good

as to say, hey, if you're going to do this episode, you've got to watch an episode of 48 hours entitled temptation in texas oh i am i am tempted already okay you should be this episode of 48 hours is amazing um i highly recommend it to anyone with 42 minutes to spare that's how long the episode is yes excellent it's okay london you're gonna love this story it's a family-friendly show

sorry my poison ivy you have it on your neck yeah i have it on my neck kristen i know what are you doing with your neck and the poison i don't know how it happened were you army crawling i got it on the weirdest place well not the weirdest like you know here where my sleeve when i'm like your anus would be the weirdest place do you know how afraid i was so okay guys let me back up a long time ago like back when you like first gave birth yeah i did a bunch of yard work and i noticed at the beginning of my yard work journey that like oh god we've got like some poison ivy or poison something i better be careful well one day i realized oh shit i've like stumbled

into it yeah and i hadn't taken any of the precautions you're supposed to. And I was like, oh, no. But then a day went by and nothing happened to me. So rather than think that, oh, my gosh, I'm lucky, I thought, oh, I must be one of those people who's not allergic to poison ivy. And so I went out the next day, balls to the wall, in shorts and a tank top. You just rolled around in it. I sat in it. I shit you not, I sat sat in it i shit you not i sat in it and of course you're not getting on your anus so well here's the deal so i mean i was covered it was

awful i was miserable and you know could only blame myself but here's the thing so you know it gets on you and one of the reasons they tell you not to scratch is because then you get the oils and they can move. The oil and then it spreads, yeah. Well, so it started to travel up my legs. Oh, no. And I was like, I see where this thing's headed. I'm terrified. Luckily, it didn't reach any critical areas.

No anus was reached. Oh, Brandy, please. Be classy, okay? I'm saying anus. I'm not saying but was reached. Oh, Brandy, please. Be classy, okay? I'm saying anus. I'm not saying butthole. Okay, okay. I call it my no-no zone. But anyway, I went out into the yard yesterday.

I went out into the yard yesterday, and it was 92 degrees, but I was in long sleeves. I was in pants. I had socks over the pants. I looked really cool. You know, obviously. What? I'm reminded of a camping trip that we took once oh oh i remember i was so embarrassed i was so mad at my mom

flare jeans flare jeans were in very popular and your flare jeans kept getting caught in the like in the chain of your bicycle right and so your mom made you tuck them inside your socks they looked so stupid and i hated it but she was like no you're gonna ruin your jeans and it's not safe oh man try to be cool parents just don't understand just don't understand so uh anyway bottom line i i was covered head to toe like a beekeeper out there yesterday and yet still somehow i so i have some on my wrist which makes sense because i think you know obviously the sleeves didn't go but i have it on my freaking neck more and more red by the moment ma'am you want some weird place for a hic. Right in the middle of my neck. Right on my Adam's apple.

Your Adam's apple. Don't slut shame me. That's just where Norman goes a sucking. Right on my neck. Oh, God. He goes a sucking. Anyway, should we get to the case? Yeah, real quick, though.

Yeah. Can we roll that chair over here? Oh, boy. You want everything, don't you? I do. I'm sorry. We'll just prop her little sleeping ass in it. Look. Look how good she is now.

Oh. Hey, will you wake her up? Because I'm going to tell this story and I want her to hear it. You really want her reactions? Well, yeah. I want her, you know, if she feels moved to cry, then, you know. Okay. Brand know. Okay. Brandy.

Yes. Today, I'd like to talk to you about a real sweet lady named Michelle Williams. From Destiny's Child? Don't get it twisted. Do you know how hard it is? She's also from Texas. Do you know how hard it is to Google Michelle Williams and try to get what you're looking for? Michelle's life, you know, kind of got off to a bit of a rocky start.

When she was 17, she became pregnant with her first child. And by the time she was 24, she had three children. And, okay, like I said, amazing episode of 48 Hours. But a little judgy for my taste. So the 48 Hours guy wants you to know that these three children were by two different men. Oh, no. Okay, okay. Talk about slut shaming.

Michelle got married a couple times, but, you you know she just had bad luck when it came to relationships she says in every relationship she had she was cheated on every single time poor poor michelle you can do that thing where i feel kind of bad for her and then it turns out she's the black widow i don't know i don't know i am like immediately like well that does suck it does suck it does suck and you don't have to feel you know a hundred percent one way or the other about someone you know there's there's gray areas brandy all right poor poor michelle and her terrible luck except wait is michelle williams the name of that actress with the blonde hair that describes every actress what are you talking about

michelle williams michelle williams or is it just the destiny's child lady i think it's well it's a pretty common name no yeah it yeah, it's also the Heath Ledger chick. The chick that was in... Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's Michelle Williams, too. But is that the name of the girl from Destiny's Child, too? Well, yeah, it was Michelle, Kelly, and Beyonce. I was just making sure I got my pop culture references right.

Yeah, don't question me about, you know, Destiny's Child. I almost called it Beyonce. Beyonce. I mean, really. Don't mean to get political here. are you ready for the counterpoint uh-huh michelle's youngest son andrew who is now an adult says that's not exactly how his mom's relationships went down he's like she cheated on my dad married some other dude cheated on him left him for dude, cheated on him, left him for another dude, cheated on him, left that guy for another dude. So someone was cheating in all of the relationships.

There was some cheating going on for sure. Michelle's older son, Lee, doesn't have great things to say about his mom either. He said there were always a lot of dudes around in his childhood. Just sausage fest. It was a real sausage fest. Is that what he said on this episode of 48 Hours? You would not believe some of the things that were said on this episode. So he says she worked in strip clubs and that he thinks she might have done some sex work.

Which, okay, I'm just going to tell you, Michelle sucks, but we don't need to slut shame her. But boy, they go all in. Okay, may I tell you the transcript of this? Yeah. Okay, interviewer. You believe your mom at times was a prostitute? And Lee said, I believe there's a very good possibility that she was. If she wasn't getting paid for it, I know she was sleeping around.

Oh, I know. I know. There's a lot to know about your mom. Shots fired. Well, and it also makes you sound dumb if you weren't getting paid for it. What to believe, Brandy? Is Michelle lying? Are her sons lying?

I personally am going to side with the sons because I say what are the son why are the sons gonna lie about that right and Michelle's own sister says if she's talking she's usually lying oh wow this is starting to sound like a sad story but don't worry because in 2007 things changed Michelle married a guy named Greg Williams. I said his name weird. Greg Williams. He has a long pause between his two names. His middle name is actually... It's a beautiful middle name.

Not too late to change things for London. London. Pond. Greg was a good'un. He was a computer engineer. He had his own business, and he was very successful. In fact, the dude was a millionaire. He had an $800,000 house, and to celebrate their anniversary, they both got new Mercedes.

Ooh. Same. Oh, you ready for this next one? Okay okay so you each get the new mercedes yeah and then he bought michelle her very own frozen yogurt shop what fuck you gonna do the whole frozen yogurt shop what do you mean it's a business i get it well what do you do with a whole fucking salon i mean come on okay i get what you're saying wait did you think he bought her like all the yogurt and you did didn't you like rather than just taking her out for frozen yogurt whenever she wanted

no i thought like here's your frozen yogurt shop you can get frozen yogurt anytime you want again that's why you have the salon so you can just go get your haircut anytime you want i wish that's how it worked i haven't had a haircut in months um are you looking at me sister i am proof that i'm taking this whole thing very seriously. My roots are... Your roots have roots. Yeah. Oh, hey, you're supposed to be my long-term friend. Have you seen my roots? I got grays popping in there.

Brandy. This is terrible. Brandy, you had the balayaged ends, which makes it look all natural. You have balayaged ends. Does it look like I paid for this? Does this look intentional? No, it doesn't.

Don't lie to me, Brandy. So like I said, he bought her a frozen yogurt shop, which contrary to what you're all thinking, it actually is just buying someone a business. I'm sorry. It's a business venture. I will say, though, looks-wise, they were a bit of a mismatch. Ooh.

Michelle, pretty hot. She has long, dark hair. I will say the years have not been kind to her more recently, but, you know, at the time, long, dark hair, rockin' bod, big eyes, cheekbones as high as kites. Mm-hmm. Greg looked like an IT guy. And I don't mean that in a terrible way I'm not saying he's unattractive but he just looked like an IT guy all right all right was he an IT guy yeah okay yeah he had his own IT consulting business also a yogurt shop you know if you're keeping track at home. No, just, you know, pale, you know, IT guy.

Can he wear glasses? I don't think so, no. But here's the thing. Even though this is clearly a match made in heaven, and nothing is going to go wrong in this story. Right. Not everyone was super happy for Greg and Michelle. Greg's sister, who is also named Michelle because life is complicated.

That's right. And his brother, Michael, both thought that... What? Michelle and Michael. I mean, Kristen and Kyla. I mean, what are you... Yeah. You got something to say?

No. No? So they both thought that Michelle kind of sucked. For reasons that are not made super clear in this episode michelle or i'm sorry michael this is why this is confusing michael went along on greg and michelle's first date what i don't know if it was a group situation or what but he was there he witnessed the whole thing and at one point they were all at a club and in this episode episode of 48 Hours, Michael is recounting this story. And he kind of looks off to the side and he goes, I don't know if you can say slut on television.

And the interviewer says, you just did. and then michael goes well okay she was just doing some things in a bar to my brother that i just i don't and at this point this is handy well hold on at this point the sister michelle who's sitting next to him in this interview goes, most people get a room. Uh-huh. They also, Brandy, Brandy, this is not a visual medium. You're going to have to give actual reactions. You can't just stand there like, uh. They also told this super weird story about how Michelle apparently hit on her brother-in-law, Brynn, by, get this, she went up to the attic in this dude's house saying, hey, oh, I need some help up here. And when he comes to help her, whoopsies,

she's wearing a skirt with no underoos underneath. He saw the full vag. Oh my gosh, just aired it out for the whole. Aired it out. Well, that's disgusting. It's a power move, Gosh, just aired it out for the whole. Aired it out. Well, that's disgusting. It's a power move, Brandy, to just show someone your full badge. Is it? You'll feel very powerful, I guarantee. I don't think I will.

Tell us about that birth story. Felt so powerful. See, I'm terrible with names, but I watch 90 Day Fiance. And there's this one couple where the guy is very. Oh, gosh, poor London. It's okay. She's being so, poor London. It's okay. She's being so loud right now. It's okay.

We're about to hear her little baby burp. Whoa. Oh my God. Poor girlfriend. You have so many burps, London. She has so much hair. You did. But none of this mattered because the bottom line was greg was smitten whatever michelle was doing it was a working greg was in love and he was pleased as punch to keep Michelle in all the trappings of the good life. Despite the haters, life was good.

Michelle and Greg had a daughter together, and Greg already had another daughter from a previous marriage. So if you're keeping track, he had two children by two different women. I bet they didn't make a point of that. No, they didn't, but I'm making a point of it because they were so scandalized by Michelle. I'm just saying, someone can be bad, but we don't need to, like, slut-shame them on top of this.

Yeah, no. And I'm sorry, does that even qualify a slutty to have... I don't think so. Probably not, no. Okay, let's... We'll have to make some rules up for sluttiness. Sluttiness, yeah. Naturally, you'll be to make some rules up for sluttiness. Sluttiness, yeah. Naturally, you'll be in charge. Ha ha!

Slut shame you! I did just have a baby out of wedlock. Oh my goodness. Fast forward to October of 2011. They'd been married for a few years and they were about to close on a new house. They were designing a new pool. According to Michelle, everything was awesome. Does Greg die?

All right, Brandy. Then one night, Michelle fell asleep in the living room with her daughter, Michaela. And all of a sudden, something woke her up. It was maybe a bang? She wasn't sure. But at any rate, she got up and rushed to the master bedroom. But as she walked in, someone, boom, struck her in the face. What? She was knocked out cold, She was knocked out cold, Brandy. Was she? Brandy, don't be rude.

Then, oh, oh, she came to. She got up. She went to the bed. And there was Greg. He had been shot in the head. Oh, my gosh. She called 911 in a panic and in a very high-pitched voice. So it's, oh, my God, somebody shot my husband.

Did you hear this 911 call? Uh-huh. Did it sound legit to you? I will just say that there are a lot of times in this episode of 48 Hours where she's trying to act like she's crying. And there's not a single tear to be found. There's no tears. So that's what I'm saying to you.

Police arrived on the scene, and frankly, the crime scene looked a little weird. There was no forced entry. So how did they make entry into the home, you might ask? Yes. Nothing was askew. The couple apparently had $20,000 in cash just chilling in the house. Obviously.

Obviously, the intruder didn't want to take that didn't want to be a thief just a murderer you know plus everything was like super clean you could practically smell the clorox smell the bleach hanging in the air and get this greg had been shot with his own gun. Oh, because intruders so often come in the house. Come in unprepared. Unprepared, yes. Unarmed. Yeah.

Whoopsies. Oh, so glad I found your gun. Yes. Oh, there's all your money. I'd hate to take any of that. I'm no thief. Hate to intrude. And the shooter had conveniently dropped the murder weapon on the floor by the back door.

You know, sometimes murderers try to dispose of the murder weapon. Occasionally. Not this time. This time the guy was like, here you go. It didn't make a ton of sense. But, you know, Michelle, who, of course, is also a victim, was like, yeah, it was an intruder. You know, he was a man. He was wearing dark stuff.

And he hit me on the cheek. And, I mean, police did find a wrench next to the gun. Perhaps that wrench had been used to hit Michelle. Perhaps. Unfortunately, both the murder weapon and the wrench had no fingerprints on them. So that kind of sucked. Damn the luck. But they took Michelle to the station to ask her a few questions.

And initially she wasn't super helpful because, you know, she was kind of foggy. Okay. Right. She couldn't remember much of anything. Did she hear the gunshot? Did she see the intruder? It's hard to say. These were the questions she was asking herself.

Ugh, ugh. But there had definitely been a male intruder in the house. He was the one who had done all this. Yeah. Okay, okay, Brandy. The sergeant kind of gave her the same look you're giving me. Bit of a skeptic and he was like look the way i see it is either greg killed himself and you tried to cover it up

or you killed him and you're trying to cover that up uh-huh so which is it well she's like oh i'm glad you mentioned that it was definitely he killed himself you're right yeah absolutely yeah which is obviously the dumbest theory ever but he's just trying to get her to admit to something really stupid of course so they went around in circles for a while until finally michelle came clean are you ready for the real story? I can't wait to hear the real story. Okay, okay. Greg had killed himself, and she had tried to cover it up

because she couldn't let her daughter think that her daddy killed himself. So like any good mother, she tried to cover the whole thing up. Yes. She got her Clorox wipes, which I'm very jealous. I haven't found Clorox wipes in months. Months.

She cleaned up the house. She wiped off the gun. She wiped off Greg's hands, you know, so there wouldn't be any gunshot residue. Right. And put the gun out by the back door, and she smacked herself in the face with a wrench. Okay.

You know, so that it would look like an intruder had come in and done the whole thing. Yeah. I probably don't need to say this, but nobody on earth believed this stupid story. So, three months after Greg was murdered, Michelle was arrested. Uh-huh. There was just a slight problem with the prosecution's case. They didn't have much on Michelle. According to the laws of common sense, it seemed pretty clear that Michelle had murdered Greg.

Right. But alas, the police had kind of bungled the investigation. Oh, no. And by kind of, I mean big time. They really had? Okay. When they brought Greg's body out of the house, they didn't put it in a bag or, like, put one of their white sheets over it? Okay, this is the weirdest thing.

They just rolled it down the street? No. Ironically, that would be, well, that would be well that would be terrible instead what they did was they took this really colorful quilt that had been on the bed and just wrapped him in this quilt so it's cross contamination that's so weird yeah not to mention it's just freaking weird because they showed photos of these guys wheeling it out, and it's a colorful quilt. Is this the first time they've ever had to remove a body from a scene? I don't know.

I don't know what goes on in Keller, Texas, if this was just, like, new stuff, but, yeah, that's what they did. So there's cross-contamination at the yin-yang, and additionally, there was very little hard evidence. There were no fingerprints no gunshot residue because by her own admission michelle had cleaned up the crime scene in other words the prosecution had a circumstantial case which okay the prosecutor

okay i'm gonna keep talking and then So prosecutor Jack Strickland offered Michelle an insanely way too generous plea deal, in my opinion. What's the deal? He said, don't worry about murder. and plead guilty to a uniquely Texas charge, which is just called deadly conduct, which means that you were irresponsible with a weapon, then we'll all go home happy. So that plea deal came with a maximum sentence of 20 years and a minimum sentence of two and a half years. Holy shit. Personal opinion.

I don't think it's that this case was really that weak i think he was just being a little lazy yeah i think it seems pretty i mean we'll we'll see more in the future here but like i think it's very obvious she did it yeah obviously michelle was like hell yeah i'll take that deal. Fingers crossed for the minimum sentence. In the meantime, amidst the investigation and all the legal hullabaloo, you'll be pleased to learn that Michelle found love again. Oh, good. Her new boyfriend, whose name is Gene, is also her personal trainer. And he thinks... A personal trainer named Gene? What gene what what what's wrong with

that that's your problem i don't think there's any personal trainers out there named gene there's one what should a personal trainer be named like chad okay yeah that isn't better anyway brandy he thinks she's super duper innocent. Of course he does. Jean is also the former best friend of Michelle's son, Lee. Oh. Oh. It's a sweet story, really.

I don't think it is. Apparently, Lee and Jean were at Michelle's house, and Jean came up to Lee and said, I just want to come up like a man because you're my friend and let you know that I'm probably going to sleep with your mom tonight. Oh my god! What? He was just trying to be a friend. Be a friend and a man.

Just come to you like a man. Coming to you like a man with my dong out. I'm just a man with my dong in my hand asking for your permission to bone your mom. To bang your mom. You're not going to believe this, but Lee didn't take it real well. I bet he didn't.

And their long-term friendship was adjourned. Oh, no. But hey, great news. Great news. You ready for this? Yeah. Michelle and Gene started a business together. They started a kettlebell fitness studio in Bedford.

And they do a lot of online promotions, except in all the promos, Michelle goes by the name Shelly. Gee, I don't know why. Which, I mean, if you had to pick a name. Shelly? You're not going to pick Shelly? I wouldn't pick Shelly. It's short for Michelle.

Yeah, I know. But Bob is short for Robert. And I wouldn't go by that. I'm sorry. There are probably a lot of Shelly's who are pissed at me right now. Your family calls you Shell. Yeah, I'm not saying it's a great name. Listen, my last name is Pitts.

I would still say that's not a name you would choose. Are you struggling with the concept here, ma'am? I'm just saying, like, Shelly's not that bad, is it? If you had to choose of all the names in the world. All the chin joints in all the world. By the way, I... She's not choosing from all of the names in the world though she's choosing of a shortened version of her own name i guess but i mean still my name's brandy if i wanted to come up with a shortened version of it i got like two choices yeah but why does it have to be a shortened version why not go with a whole new name? You murdered someone. I mean, like, that's where you're going to be like, that would be unethical if I called myself Tiffany.

That is the argument. Not that Shelly is a bad name, because you have limited options when you're trying to come up with a nickname based off of your actual name. And I'm saying she shouldn't have done a nickname off of her actual name. She should have just, like, gone, you know, start from scratch. All of a sudden she's Brenda. Okay.

Why not? Why not? name she should have just like got you know start from scratch she's brenda okay why not why not you think this woman is tethered to ethics or morals obviously she chose shelly because it is a version of her name okay shell Okay. Shell. Wow. The look you're giving me, so judgmental. I can understand that you and Shelly are together on this whole thing. By the way, I'm going to be a little rude here. So obviously I did some Googling aside from watching this wonderful episode of 48 Hours. And someone, one of these articles refers to gene as a bodybuilder and personal builder if he is he's not doing a great job of any competition so anyway um you know they've got this business together it's going great she's going by the name

shelly which you know is a shortened version of her own name i'm not saying it's not i'm just saying it's a bad choice come up with something new come on michelle and her okay what what if i'm like christ, I would now from here forth like you to call me Andy. That's my new name. I'm going by Andy. And you're like, that's a terrible name. Why don't you just go by Giselle? It's because I tried to pick a name that is a version of my name.

You are so wrong. You couldn't be more wrong. This is not the same. Here's what it's like. Okay. Okay. If I murder Norman, and everyone knows I murdered Norman, but I'm like, I'm totally innocent. But then, to make money, I come up with a business, and I obviously can't go by my real name because people

know me as the murderer of the gaming historian. I wouldn't go by Chris, you know? I would just pick something totally different. That would be hilarious if you became known as the murderer of the gaming historian. If you don't like being known as the gaming historian as a wife, like nobody even bothers to learn your name. You're just the murderer of the gaming historian. That would suck. Yeah, for those of you who are new here,

it really doesn't happen that much anymore with the podcast. Yes. But man, when I was editing scripts for Norman and working on other stuff and like when I had my PR job, people would call me the gaming historian's wife. And I was like, oh, thank you, sir. But I also have my own brain.

Hated it. Hated it. So Michelle, a.k.a. Shelly, and her new boyfriend new boyfriend gene who's not a bodybuilder but is a personal trainer found out oh my gosh great news prepare to be excited we're pregnant pregnant with twins oh god you don't approve i i would be very overwhelmed yeah that's what i was putting out there but they were thrilled. Okay. How great.

And here's the cool thing. You know, Michelle had pled guilty. She'd taken this plea deal. So they were just waiting on the sentencing. But the judge in her case had a heart of gold, in my opinion. And Michelle's defense attorney explained to the judge that Michelle was pregnant with twins and asked the judge, hey, could we delay sentencing until after Michelle gives birth? And the judge was like, yeah, sure, that's fine. And the prosecutor

was fine with it, too. Everyone's being super reasonable. Well, you know, she's going to serve some jail time anyway. I imagine another consideration is the state doesn't have to pay for it if you give birth on your own time but if you're in prison and you give birth i imagine the state pays i don't know i don't know if that was a consideration but maybe it was anyway bottom line they're like sure it was at this moment between the time when she accepted the plea deal and the time when she would go into court for her sentencing that she did an interview with the media. She went on an episode of 48 Hours.

Oh! The episode you watched? This one was kind of the follow-up. Okay, okay. So in that episode, the interviewer gives her a stern look. Brandy. And Michelle is sitting there, glassy-eyed, wearing an extraordinarily unattractive yellow jail jumpsuit. Uh-huh. And the interviewer

says, did you murder your husband, Greg? And she says, no, I did not! And then, frankly, in my opinion, she tells a very interesting story. What's the story?

She tells 48. She tells 48. Hey, don't call me Wishbone. I've got a new name. It's Shelly. I prefer to go by that. She tells 48 hours. Oh, just kidding about that whole I wiped down a suicide story.

Oh, just kidding about that whole I wiped down a suicide story. It was an intruder who came in and murdered Greg and hit me in the face with that wrench. Yep, that's what really happened. Okay. What, Brandy? Then why'd she tell the suicide story? You know, well, she decided it wasn't worth it to go for the trial. You know, that's too risky.

So she takes the plea deal. But the real story is that she's not guilty because the intruder did it. Uh-huh. Don't make that. How dare you make that face? I often take responsibility for crimes I didn't commit. Okay. Actually, though, you're making that face. Okay, actually, though, you're making that face, but for real,

if I felt like the state had me on something that I didn't do, and if I felt like a jury might really put me away for life. If the plea deal was that good. Yeah, if the plea deal was that good, I might just say, you know what? I don't believe that's what actually happened here, but for real, I think people take plea deals all the time. Oh, I do too. Okay. All right.

Not if they legitimately had no involvement in the crime, though. You think they would take a plea deal? That's exactly what I'm saying. If I felt like the state had me for a crime I did not do, but they had enough on me that I was like, you know what, a jury might find me guilty. I might go away for life. Maybe I should take the plea deal instead.

I guess. I guess it's possible. It definitely happens all the time. What are you talking about? Is it possible? No, I'm, no, no, no. Obviously it happens all the time. I'm thinking personally, would I do it?

Okay. You'd be in prison for life. I'd have to take London up there to visit you. Be like, I told your mom to take the plea deal. I told her to take London up there to visit you. Be like, I told your mom to take the plea deal. I told her to take the plea deal, London. She was like, yeah, when I came to, I saw the murderer leave through the front door, which they kind of, they showed the house in this episode of 48 Hours. And I honestly, unless I'm missing something, I do not understand how she could have been

passed out and then come to and see the guy leave through the front door. I just don't understand how that could have... The angles don't make sense? Not at all. It doesn't add up. Here's why, Kristen. Because Shelly's full of shit? Because Shelly is lying.

Hot Jake, Shelly's lying. Hot Jake. Shelly's lying. And you know, I think I know how this whole thing went down. You ready for this? Oh, yeah. I think the intruder came into our house. No, so she says, I think the intruder came into the house with a gun. Uh-oh. London doesn't like bullshit.

Got a real low tolerance. Went into the master bedroom, and Greg woke up, and Greg reached for his gun, which was in the nightstand. And the intruder, you know, rather than fire his own weapon, was like, I must have all the weapons. And so he grabbed Greg's gun out of his hand and shot greg with his own gun obviously not he was ambidextrous clearly obviously and um who knows who the murderer might be but i think it might have been one of Greg's relatives. I think it's Michelle.

No. No, Michelle says no. Okay, but for real, is that not the dumbest story you've ever heard? That's super dumb. That's so dumb. Can you imagine if that's how most gunfights went? I've got a gun and you've got a gun, and rather than fire,

I'm going to try to take your gun away from you and shoot you with it. No. we get into a lot of gunfights so we know how this goes so many gunfights we are constantly having gunfights so here's the deal as with any dateline or 2020 or 48 hours interview when they're interviewing someone who is in jail or prison there are obviously deputies there kind of standing around. Well, so these deputies listened to this hot load of bullshit, and they were like, whoa, wait till the judge hears about this. So they told the judge who was supposed to do her sentencing,

and he was pissed. He called her into court, and he's like, what's the deal? Are you guilty or are you not guilty? You said you were guilty, but now all of a sudden I hear you're telling people you're not. And she's like, I'm not guilty. Oh, no. Were there tears? There were never tears.

No tears. This judge had had it up to here, Brandi. Oh, how high is your hand right now? Very high. Good touch on this guy. And the judge turns to her and he says, Lady Justice may be blind, but she's neither deaf. I'm sorry. I think you mean deaf.

But she's neither deaf nor stupid. If you're innocent, have a trial. Let the chips fall where they may. Can you point a gun at her? Yeah, it's Texas. They all had guns. And she's like, I know how this goes. So she takes his gun away and shoots him with it.

And then she's like, an intruder did it. In other words, plea deal revoked. Wow, she got her plea deal revoked by running her mouth on 48 hours. How dumb is she? What an idiot. The prosecutor, I think, gave her a hell of a deal. Yeah. Partially out of laziness, I suspect.

Maybe not. Maybe that's not fair. Anyway, she had a hell of a deal and she was too stupid to just keep her mouth shut. What an idiot. Mm-hmm. By the way, and there's no easy way to tell you this, because I know how happy you were for Michelle and her pregnancy with the twins.

Turns out she'd never been pregnant. She's a fake pregnancy! It had all been a lie. I'm sorry. No. According to Michelle's sister, this is just what she does. She's like, yeah, Michelle makes pregnancies up all the time. She's always, it's her thing.

We're shocked when a baby actually comes out of her. Like, holy crap. Seven months later, in September of 2014, three years after Greg's death, Michelle's trial began. And it was wild. That sounds like the judge had a gun. No, Michelle took it away. Oh, that's right. I forgot.

I'm not paying attention. I guess I'm not. Prosecutor Jack Strickland told the jury, she sees the killer of her husband every single day that she gets up and looks in the mirror. Oh, every single day. So you bet your bottom dollar that she knows who killed her husband because it's her. Oh, I really like when they bring up the bottom dollar. He also said that it had all been about money michelle shot greg so she could get his life

insurance in the hours before his death greg and michelle argued about the finances and when greg learned that michelle had spent the money they'd saved for a down payment on their new house he boom slapped her across the face oh and then she shot him which i'm i'm always amazed by these opening arguments where people can just say yeah you say whatever the fuck yeah it's not a bad theory but it is kind of saying whatever the fuck yeah but defense attorney clay graham was like whoa that doesn't make any sense at all. This was clearly a suicide. By the way, in this episode, I'm going to talk a little more about suicide. If that's not your thing, you know, no worries.

We'll catch you on the flippity flop. We'll catch you on the flippity flop. This was clearly a suicide, which Michelle cleaned up. I just, I get what you were doing with that little warning there, but I don't think suicide's anybody's thing, Kristen. Oh. I meant like your trigger. Kind of like how making up pregnancies

is Michelle's thing. Okay, they knew what I meant. You're right. I apologize. I'm being an asshat. London did not approve. No. This was clearly a suicide, which Michelle cleaned up so that it looked like an intruder had done it. Because she's a good mom. She didn't want her four-year-old to learn that her dad had died by suicide.

And by the way, the money motive makes no sense. Greg made a ton of money. He had a successful business. Greg was... That yogurt shop. Well, that yogurt shop was not doing too well, I don't think. Greg was worth more to Michelle alive than dead, which I actually think is a fairly good point. Yeah, that is actually a good point. that assumes that michelle is smart and thinking things through and i think that's a bit of a leap yes so you know defense is saying greg for sure died by suicide they said his grandmother had recently died his brother-in-law slash best friend had recently died by suicide he was suffering from depression and this was made even worse by the fact that he used steroids which he's pretty depressed about his shrinking package is what that means

so i found the steroid thing in some random article there was no follow-up no like i really do steroids make you depressed i have idea. Let's do some and find out. Let's do it. This month's bonus video. Watch Kristen and I do steroids. The trial was under... Okay. I was about to say the trial was underway, but clearly it's already underway because those are opening arguments. Anyway, it's a professional show.

Here we go. The prosecution. The trial was well underway by now. Yeah, yeah. Meant to say that. The prosecution called Michelle's youngest son, Andrew, to the stand. And he testified that after Greg died, his mom tried to get him to help frame Greg's ex-wife Kathy for the murder. Are you ready?

Yeah. Here's what she told him to do. Well, here's what he says she told him to do. She wanted him to go and get a large woman's sweater and fire a gun so that the sweater would be covered in gunshot residue. woman's sweater and fire a gun so that the sweater would be covered in gunshot residue. Then she wanted him to break into Kathy's car, hide the sweater in there under one of the seats, and then go to a pay phone and call 911 and place an anonymous tip so that police would search Kathy's car and find the sweater there. I don't think that would work. All ethics aside. Then the prosecution called a medical examiner who was like, yeah, you know, this is probably not a suicide. Okay, so I'm not

going to go into a ton of detail. But basically, the medical examiner was like, okay, obviously, when it's a suicide, the gun is going to be pretty close to your head when it's fired. Duh. Duh. But based on his examination, the gun had been fired from just a little too far away for this to plausibly be a suicide. Okay. Then Greg's mom testified that it didn't make sense for her son to commit suicide. Yes, he was tired. Yes, he worked a lot, but he was happy. He was excited about the new house. He was not depressed. Despite all those steroids he was just constantly using. Then the prosecution called a forensic accountant to the stand who was like, here's the deal, gang. The couple had money trouble. Money troubles. So here's the situation. Greg made $800,000 a year. Fuck! Yeah, amazing. So great. But as good as Greg was at making money... That's how good Shelly was at spending it.

I would dare to dare say she was even better at spending it. So this expert witness was like, yeah, Greg made the money, but Michelle spent a ton of it. She was writing checks from his business account. Plus, they were constantly transferring money from his business into her little yogurt stand, which is weird because he only bought the yogurt stand so that Michelle would have unlimited yogurt. So despite spending all the money they had coming in. Okay, I've already said that. Sorry. So, you know, they've got all this money coming in. Okay, I've already said that. Sorry.

So, you know, they've got all this money coming in. Okay, wait, hold on. Shut up. It sounds like. I'm blaming your baby. I'm very distracted. You're right. I'm sorry.

Yes. Yes. It's definitely London. I'm amazing at podcasting. As many episodes have already proven yeah there's at least seven that you're excellent we have 130 some episodes seven quite good so they've got all this money coming in but in all their bank accounts they they have just $28,614.

Wow. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Do they have, like, so a lot of people who are wealthy, though, they don't have a lot of cash assets. They have money, like, tied up in investments and stuff. So this is why I was not that troubled by it. Because, again, they didn't mention this part on 48 Hours,

but another source said the 20 grand in cash sitting around the house. So they've obviously got that. And yeah, I can't imagine too many wealthy people who have like a ton in checking or savings. You put it into brokerage accounts, you put it into retirement accounts, you put it into the yogurt shop. You're not making any money off of it sitting in a traditional checking or savings account but anyway that's just what they said and i mean we are financial experts so i feel quite confident practically a forensic accountant but the bottom line was they could not afford to put a down payment on the house they were buying. Interestingly. Yeah, I heard your dad today said that $78,000 is not even enough for a down payment on a house. Privileged white man talking.

Could you believe that when he said that? I was like, hold up, wait a minute. I also liked when he said he didn't have privilege growing up oh dp the things dp says dp says the darndest things oh dad we love you so interestingly the defense was like yeah sure and that's why michelle tried to clean up the fact that greg killed himself so their thing was like the insurance payment like wouldn't pay out for a suicide. Right. So they're like, oh, that's why she cleaned it up.

That's why. Oh. See, they mentioned that in the 48 hours thing. They don't mention that in other articles, though. Okay. At some point, the prosecution played clips from that episode of 48 hours. So they could be like, hey, hey jury here's the story she told police here's the story she told the media and oh look at that she just jumps from story to story yeah

the defense god bless them had an uphill battle but they did their best they called five witnesses and they of course argued that greg had died by suicide and he did it for a number of reasons one of them being money. They called their own forensic accountant who testified that Greg and Michelle had been living beyond their means and that the majority of the expenses tied to Greg's it business were for personal uses like childcare and medical care. So both sides were arguing that this had come down to money, but they were arguing different sides of the same coin.

That's why you listen to this podcast. In closing arguments, the defense was like, yeah, Greg committed suicide. And, you know, makes total sense because he lost his best friend to suicide. His grandmother, who he loved, had died. Greg was having a real rough time. And so then this defense attorney, he's standing up, you know, he's doing his little closing argument. And he's like, you know, on the night that he died, he looked at his laptop and he saw his bank statements. And he was like, oh, we can't afford this new house. And he realized that he couldn't do it anymore at this point a member

of the prosecution stands up and she's like objection she's like the defense attorney's not a fucking mind reader well she didn't say i bet she did he can't tell what greg was thinking that night yeah and the judge was like sustained sustained absolutely you should have seen the stink eye this defense attorney gave that prosecutor. Because, you know, he already had a terrible case. Yeah. And, you know, he was just, you know, doing his best in his little closing argument. In the prosecution's closing argument, Jack was like, Michelle Williams is a lying liar who lies.

And she's a cold-blooded killer. The jury of seven men and five women deliberated for seven hours and they found her guilty yeah she was sentenced to 60 years in prison and she'll be eligible for parole in 30 here is an insane twist that 48 hours saved as like the cherry on top of this nutso episode greg's sister michelle doesn't just think that michelle killed her brother she also thinks that michelle killed her husband bren so you know how the defense kept being like oh his best friend brother-in-law had died by suicide michelle doesn't think that was a suicide. Really?

Okay, so this was the brother-in-law who saw the full badge on the attic stairs or whatever. Ten months before Greg was murdered, Brynn died too. By suicide? Question mark! Brynn worked for Greg, and he was going on a business trip in the company truck and the way the business worked, Michelle would give him directions on where to go next.

So she gave him directions and yada, yada, yada. Bryn's truck was discovered abandoned by the side of the highway, right next to this weird tower thing. And when investigators found his body, they decided that he died by suicide. But again, his wife, Michelle,

doesn't believe that for a second. She thinks that evil Michelle lured him to that location and shot him in the head. Oh my gosh. So here's the motive. Yeah, what? Yeah. Brynn and Greg were best friends.

And Brynn had gotten to the point where he was sick of evil Michelle. He thought she was no good. He'd caught her in some really weird lies, like saying that Greg's daughter from a previous marriage was trying to poison her. You know, just like a bunch of hot bullshit. And so good Michelle thinks that Bryn was getting really close to telling, like, hey, Michelle's really bad for you. Here are all the reasons why. And she thinks that scared evil Michelle, and so she killed him.

Wow. But apparently, and how does this happen? When Brynn's body was found, evil Michelle went into protection mode so she told police oh you know Brynn's wife is so upset she's having such a tough time just talk to me about everything and I'll handle everything what and it appears that they complied so Michelle got him cremated like immediately like the day after Brynn was found. You know, evil Michelle comes to good Michelle with all this paperwork. And, you know, Michelle was in so much grief that she just signed whatever was in front of her.

Yeah. And lo and behold, it was paperwork to get her husband cremated. Did she? So she didn't even know what she was agreeing to? Right. Which is partly on her, right? Yeah, yeah. But it's the day after someone's body is found.

I don't know how quickly you're supposed to make those kind of decisions, but that seems really fast. Yeah. And because this isn't frustrating enough, here's another fun fact. So, you know, now people are kind of like all right well Bryn's death should be looked into but here's the thing he's been cremated and police say he shot himself on the left side of the head but he was right-handed but the medical examiner says that he was shot between the eyes so like, like, even the officials don't have their

stories straight. And the bottom line, Michelle has talked to the police about her suspicions, but nothing's going to come of it. His death was ruled a suicide and they don't have plans to reopen that case. Oh my gosh. And that's the story of a very polite intruder who cleaned up a murder scene and got away with the whole thing poor michelle poor shelly poor shelly just wanted to nothing's very upset about that case i know she thought michelle was innocent michelle's not innocent kristen i'm here to tell you i don't know i think it's just a crime that that intruder got away with that whole thing. What do you think? I think it was kind of crazy that she was offered a plea deal.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I can't believe that they... I agree that I think the plea deal has to come from some kind of laziness on... Yeah. Putting a case together, right? Yeah.

I mean, totally. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Brandy, I understand you've had some big changes in your life. I have. You want to talk about them?

First, what I'd like to talk to you about today, Kristen, is earbuds. I totally forgot we had a sponsor. I was like, what's she going to talk to me about? Should I tell you a story about birth in this one? It was just like a slip and slide, right? It just came right out. No. No.

No, I was kidding, Brandi. Okay, set the scene. It was a Tuesday. It was a Tuesday. A Tuesday. Picture it. It was a Tuesday. I went to my regular doctor's appointment. Because I was at weekly appointments it was a tuesday a tuesday picture it was a tuesday i went to my

regular doctor's appointment like because i was at you know weekly appointments just a regular checkup went in for the first time in my entire pregnancy and i was 38 and a half weeks that day yeah my blood pressure was elevated i had had perfect blood pressure the entire rest of my pregnancy and so like the nurse when they check you in the nurse takes your blood pressure whatever so my doctor comes in and she's like what's going on and i was like i don't know i've never and it wasn't high right it was just slightly elevated yeah and i was like i don't know you know my blood pressure's been perfect this whole time and she's like i know and she's like i think we should have a baby today oh and i was like okay i immediately welled up with tears.

Yeah. I don't ever remember this, but like, I was like, I hope when I go to the doctor this week that they're going to tell me they're going to induce me because I'm ready for her to be here.

You were so ready. I mean, first of all, you were in a lot of pain. I was in so much pain. It's the pelvic girdle dysfunction thing. Yeah. And so,

yeah. So I was hoping that I would go to the doctor that day and find out that I was going to be induced for that week. I, for whatever reason, was not anticipating that would happen that day. Yeah. And so, yeah, when she said that, my eyes immediately welled up with tears. And I was like, okay. And so they sent me over to get an ultrasound to make sure that she was head down because otherwise like an induction is not not possible. And so I got an ultrasound. And the

really cool thing about getting that ultrasound done was that she checked to see if she had hair. And so I found out right then that she had a head full of hair. Oh, and then yeah, they while I was back there, they called the hospital and they're like head on over and we'll get you checked in. And we're you're to have this baby. And so David left work. He like came home. We ate and then we went. What'd you have?

We got Tanner's to go. I got chicken lips, which are just chicken fingers. That's disgusting. Tanner's has the best honey mustard on the planet. And you know how much I like was craving mustard the entire time I was pregnant. So, yeah. So it's like, this is my last meal. I knew that I wouldn't get to eat for a while because.

You didn't know how long. Oh Lord. If only I'd known. I could have eaten like a bear heading into winter. So we get to the hospital, we get it all checked in. We get into a room and like, we were on isolation because of covid we could not leave our room we were in a negative airflow room what does that even mean i don't i have no idea did it smell funny no so what it had this big vacuum unit in it that every now and again would kick on

and like it would suck the air out of the room i guess like it's weird that our germy air wasn't circulating through the rest of the hospital wow they need those on airplanes so we could not leave the room david could i guess like to go down to the main part of the hospital but he couldn't be like hanging out on the floor or anything right um just a totally normal dude hanging out wandering the halls well there's like a nourishment room but we weren't he wasn't allowed to go in there until after so i had to be tested for covid immediately but it takes anywhere from like 24 to 72 hours for a covid test to come back right and so okay i told you that i was nervous about the butt swab. That turned out to be no big deal. Barely noticed it.

Didn't think a fucking thing about the COVID test. I think they scraped my brain. Really? Oh my gosh. That thing was so far up there. And then you told me you took it and that it was no big deal. It really wasn't. That thing was so far up there, Kristen. And then she had to rotate it 10 times.

Yeah. I thought I was going to die. Really? Yes. I mean, yeah, like they really jam it up there. But I really didn't think it was that bad. Oh, I thought it was terrible. Did it hurt?

Yeah. Oh. My eyes watered the entire, like I had tears running down my face. Yeah, my eyes watered. Yeah. I don't know i would do 10 million butt swabs before i would do another covid test okay that's a new tier on patreon if you want to give a butt swab to brandy that's 11 a month that's not too bad so that night they just like got me going. They got an IV going for fluids. And then they started me on a cervix softener.

Do you want to know the details on that? Yeah, what is that? So they take a physical pill. Okay. And they insert it. Like a suppository. Yeah, they insert it up at the back of your cervix. So they had to elbow deep in there to get that send a lemming up there with it in a backpack

oh yeah so i did a couple rounds of like they did another pill like every i think it was like every four hours that night so throughout the night they just kept doing that and then i had they had her hooked up to a monitor the entire time so i had like a belly monitor on right listening to make sure that london was not in distress or anything right that was fine not a big deal like the next morning i hadn't progressed much um things were slow moving yeah and so they decided to start me on pitocin to try and uh advance my labor and everything and so contraction started that was all good they decided they wanted to insert a balloon to manually dilate my cervix so they sent in a clown which was terrifying to do a balloon animal no this oh this old man ob came

in like it's just so i mean, because it's whoever's on call. Well, yeah, obviously. He comes in. I swear to you, had both hands up there trying to get this thing. It was so painful. And he's like, yeah, I just, there's something about the back of your cervix. I'm just not able to get this. Oh, God.

Get this all the way in there. He's like, what? And I was like, they have me laying flat and I'm like holding onto the the bed like for dear life it hurts so bad yeah oh no and he's like i think we better wait and do this after you've had an epidural he's like because you're getting an epidural right and i was like yes i'm getting an epidural he's like okay let's let's get your epidural and then we'll and then we'll do that yeah and so they asked me if i was ready and i was really nervous to get the epidural because i to me it seemed like i had a lot of labor left to go and that we were getting it very early because there's kind of a it's a time frame well that was my question like is it too early to get it if i get this now and

then you know labor is still hours like delivery is still hours away like am i will i still be okay yeah they're like of course we'll keep the epidural medicine running through it the whole time we'll boost you like there's no expiration time on your epidural right okay which was a lie the lie detector determined that was a lie and so i was like okay great well i'll get the epidural so they bring in the which i was super nervous about the epidural yeah i thought it would be very painful but then worth it in the end ultimately it was no big deal at all like it was like a butthole swab it was so easy needles don't bother me so i think like yeah the only thing I felt was the first numbing shot.

And that was no big deal. And so, yeah, got the epidural. Feeling great. Yeah, that was like Wednesday afternoon that I got the epidural. Feeling great. They decide they're going to come back and try and place the balloon again. They've cranked my Pitocin up. I'm getting like massive doses of Pitocin

and my body's not doing much as far as responding. I'm dilating like very, very slowly. So they come in, they place the balloon. Couldn't feel anything this time. Much, much better. A little bit of pressure,

but that's it. No, no pain. Great. Got the balloon placed. They're like, yeah, just hang out. So it was great. I was watching the game show network living the dream i was i was you know i was having regular contractions couldn't feel them at all uh-huh my legs were all tingly it was a very fun feeling like i turned my

bed into a chair and like was doing this like what i would equate the position to was like a catcher at a yeah yeah i was like crouched and doing this like bouncy thing to try you know get gravity to help this baby come down or everything was great they you know checked me like every every few hours just to see how he's progressing in the meantime i'm getting a million text messages from everybody they're like is it time yet is she here yet are you pushing yet sorry about that no no it's okay no but there was something about and this is so silly that there was something about me having to tell people like nope we haven't moved before i felt like okay i'm not doing something right well and i was disappointed in you but no like i i got to like a six and then

like stalled out like nothing happened hours went by nothing happened they pulled out the balloon um which was great overnight progressed like none at all my doctor came in the next morning my my actual doctor and she's like why are you still here why haven't you had this baby yet because she had told me when she sent me to get induced that i would probably have my baby the next day which meant she wouldn't be delivering it right but that she would see me on thursday when she got there to check on me i do want to jump in real quick yeah the reason she wanted you to have birth yeah or to have to give birth yeah was because of the blood pressure dropping which is associated with your disease why that could be correct so there were some risks to both me and the baby with my blood

with my blood pressure being so so the risk was that not that anything was wrong at that moment right that it meant that something could go wrong quickly and it was safer to get, for me to have the baby than keep her in there longer. I'm just wanting you to say that because I feel like people without that piece of information will be like, your doctor was crazy.

No, no, no. I think my doctor made absolutely the right decision because I was safe and London was safe at that point and it didn't do, she didn't need any more time in there and so it was better to yeah to start the process get her out before something went wrong yeah so that morning that thursday

morning my doctor comes in and she's like what are you still doing here and i was like i don't know and like i had had like a meltdown the night before because i felt like a failure like i was just like my nurse came in i was just like like crying and David was like sleeping on this little uncomfortable bed thing. And she's like, what's going on? And I was like, I don't know. I'm just so anxious. Nothing's happening. Like I feel horrible and whatever. Well, and you couldn't eat or drink. No, I couldn't have anything. I couldn't have anything. So by that point, it'd been like a whole day of a day and a half really of not eating anything and so I got very hungry but I knew that I couldn't eat anything and so well anyway my doctor's like okay I'm gonna go ahead and break your water at this point and

that should start like the process really going right cool excellent so she goes in she breaks my water and she's like huh that's super weird what and i was like that's not what you want to hear when your doctor's elbow deep inside of you and she's like well you're dilated to a six in the front of your cervix the back of your cervix is not dilated to a six in the front of your cervix. The back of your cervix is not dilated at all. And so she manually, like, stretched the back to me. At this point, my epidural had started to feel weird. Like, I could feel pain on half my body.

And so they called the anesthesiologist back in and he checked it and he was like he adjusted it and he's like yeah something feels weird about your epidural I adjusted it I'm gonna boost it right now so he gave me like a direct shot into the epidural line and he's like this should help but let them know in a couple of hours if you're not getting relief. Okay. And I was like, okay. But it felt good. Like, it felt normal. Hours go by. Still, like, nothing's happening.

At this point, they think that my body is responding negatively to the amount of Pitocin that they're giving me. So they turn the Pitocin down and then work me back up. And so I'm, like, laying in this bed with this peanut ball between my legs like trying peanut ball peanut ball is like an exercise ball that has a big dip in the middle it looks like a peanut that sounds amazing yeah and so i'm like laying on my side with this peanut ball behind between my legs uh-huh and that's like you just lay there like that and it's supposed to help because she she had come down, like, to the birth canal at that point, but hadn't, like, interred it. Yeah.

Yet. And so they're like, this will help progress so the baby comes the rest of the way down. Cool. Great. It didn't. It helped some, but I basically stopped progressing. Hours went by. I started feeling the worst pain of my life.

And I kept telling them, like, I think they're, like, I'm in a lot of pain here. Yeah. And David would come and he would, like, David was amazing. He was by my side the entire time, like, holding my hand. I had the best nurses. Like, they were all amazing. But I was, like, I kept telling them, I'm, like, I'm in a lot of pain. And this is like thursday

evening yeah at this point london i was like i'm in a lot of pain and they're like is it pain or is it pressure because as she moves down into the birthing position it is normal to feel a lot of pressure well i've never had a fucking baby before and so i was like i don't know yeah what's the difference yeah i don't know i imagine there is pain as she moves down the birth canal come on and so it became to the point like where i was having super strong contractions very close together until this point my contractions had not been what they called effective contractions like they were rude strong but not close enough together to actually be moving her and so okay now they were close enough together and strong enough that they were that they were what needed to happen and so

it was the worst pain i've ever felt in my life. I couldn't do, like, I laid down completely flat in the bed. I made my bed back into a chair. Like, I was trying to get in any position possible. They kept telling me to lay back down on my side and get the peanut ball back. Like, it was terrible. They kept checking me. It was a seven. And then, like, an hour later, it was a seven and a half.

And, like, oh, my gosh. But they kept telling me, she's gonna be here before midnight you're gonna have a baby before midnight she's gonna be here today and i was like okay great if i know that there's like an end in sight i can continue doing this yeah finally it was like 11 o'clock that night i mean i was just, I had just been crying for hours because the pain was so bad. And I felt like nothing was happening. And like, I was just going through all of these contractions for what seemed like nothing. And finally, my nurse checked me and she's like, you're ready.

She's there. We're ready to do this. So they like in like three seconds time, get the room like transformed into a delivery room. Like a light comes down from the ceiling all these people appeared out of nowhere my doc the the doctor who was on call came in and she's like are you are you ready to do this and i was like i'm i'm ready and she's like where's your pain and i was like it's terrible i started vomiting like oh i hadn't eaten you had nothing in three days by that point i was throwing up like they have these bags for you to puke into.

I was throwing up bag after bag of fluid. Like, the pain was so bad by that point. I had my chair, my bed turned into a chair, and I was, like, so leaned forward that David had his hand, like, on my shoulder. And he's like, I need you to sit back. I was like, I can't sit back. This is the only position that I can sit in right now. And he's like, you are going to fall out of this bed. You're going to fall onto the floor.

I was like, I'm not going to fall. This is the only position that I can sit in. Like, this is the only thing I can stand to be in. I am in so much pain. And so my doctor was like, okay, let's get ready to push. Let me check you. And so she checked me and London's head was stuck. And she was like, we can't push right now.

And I was like, I have to push. Like, there's so much pressure. She's like, you can't push. She is stuck. She's like, I'm going to try and free her. Oh, God. And so she got her finger in there and was like trying to run her finger all the way around London's head. And she was like, to run her finger all the way around london's head and she was like i can't do it i can't get her head free here are your options oh god we can

get you back on the peanut ball we can get you to lay back we can continue to try and you know labor for a while longer my fear here though is that your measurements have been wrong on your ultrasounds because they thought that london would be a small baby it's a very common side effect of graves disease to have a pretty small baby um it was why i was monitored so why she was monitored so closely during my pregnancy i had an ultrasound every four weeks to measure her growth she's like my fear is that their measurements have been wrong and that you have a large baby in there um you mean monster baby yes and i was like i'm flashing to me yes yes like i was a huge baby yeah she's like we can continue to let you labor i think if you do that though you will have hours of pushing and it may not even be possible to get her out and at this point you've

been in labor for how long um 52 hours yeah 52 hours cool um and she's like or i can roll you back right now and we can have a c-section and we'll have her out of you in 10 minutes i looked at david and i was like i can't do this anymore no no and my nurse was like okay like do you want to do the c-section just we need to tell you the risks and i was like i don't yeah i don't even care like i mean the thing is like you had you didn't want a c-section no into this but at this point yeah it's like whatever needs whatever needs to happen to get her my fear at this point was that she had been in act like i had been in active labor with her for so long that surely that had to be stressful for her yeah like they had monitored her the whole

time and they assured me that she was fine but that was super stressful to me that she had been you know in distress potentially for this extended amount of time and so getting her out was like the most important thing at that time and so I told them I that we should do the c-section and my doctor was like yeah yeah let's do the c-section and so they rolled me back and they set me up like they got me up on the operating table to insert the spot to do a spinal block into my existing epidural. And they discovered that my epidural was not working. It had not been working for probably, like, the last six hours of labor. Oh, my God.

So all of that horrible pain that I'd been in when they were like, well, is it pain or is it pressure? It was pain. I was completely unmedicated. Are you just in a bad mood? it was pain I was completely unmedicated are you just in a bad mood I'm like yeah the last like six hours of my super intense labor had been completely unmedicated my epidural had failed um and you just had to have it both ways that's right there's judgment about women taking the epidural there's judgment about not taking it so you did I just did both. I had to do both. So they pulled the epidural

and they had to replace one so that I could get the C-section. So I had two epidurals done, essentially. But at that point, I was in so much pain. I was so ready to get her out. I was vomiting in the operating room. My nurse was holding a bucket

in front of my face while they were getting David dressed in the operating room that my nurse was holding a bucket in front of my face while they were getting david like dressed in like the gown and stuff so that he could be in there yeah like a sequenced one yeah yeah like absolutely matching gloves yeah it's a big deal you want to be dressed right it is um but yeah so once they once they got the new epidural place and they gave me the spinal it was like oh yeah they had me lay down on the operating table and i was in and out like oh yeah i was so drugged up at that point that i just kept like falling asleep and like waking back up well i'm sure you were so exhausted oh my gosh i was so tired by that point yes but yeah so at on june 19th at 103 a.m they pulled little london out and she's here and perfect

she's so beautiful she weighed six pounds 14 ounces um she was 18 and a half inches long and her head circumference was 13 and a half inches so she was small but she had a giant head yeah big old head big old head big old brain i remember um i remember them handing david the scissors to cut the umbilical cord like he was able to do that i remember that i remember when they pulled her out because they put like a sheet you know halfway through and they don't pull like so they put a clear sheet that you can see through and then they put a blocking sheet over that so you don't see anything until they want you to yeah because you don't see the actual like them cutting me open

and right oh god um and so once they pulled the sheet down and it was time that we got to like watch them pull her out i you know was kind of going in and out of being asleep and being awake and i remember them pulling her out and to my like on my left shoulder the anesthesiologist was there just monitoring me making sure everything was going okay and the anesthesiologist said oh he's here he's out everything's good and i was like what he i was like did i have a fucking boy like it's a girl right and so i i had to like lift myself up so that i could see over the sheet and it was a girl obviously and then yeah they took her out and david cut the cord and they brought her and they laid her on my chest and they put an oxygen mask on me at that point so i i remember being really mad that they put

the oxygen mask on me but every time i would fall asleep my oxygen level would drop and so i felt like i couldn't see anything so i kept pulling it off to try and see london um yeah but within 45 minutes we were back in the room she was all cleaned up and laying on me and they were for the this was the this was terrible for the first two hours after you have i don't know if this is just a c-section or if it's any type of birth okay for the first two hours every 15 minutes they come in and they express your uterus what does that mean they come in and they press on your uterus. No. To push it back down into place. It helps it shrink back into place. And it forces like blood and fluid out of it. Oh, God.

It was horrible. So she's like, so my nurse comes in. My nurse was, this nurse that I had the night that I gave birth was amazing. Yeah. She like was making sure, she was like running the operating room, making sure everybody was where they needed to be. When we got back to the room, she cried with us. And she was like, Oh, my gosh, so happy for you guys. Your baby is beautiful. She's like, I'm so sorry. I'm so emotional. Wow. She was amazing. And I thanked her for calming me down

because I'm an anxious person. And she's like, you didn't seem anxious to me at all. You decided immediately like the right decision for you when they told you, you know, keep going or have a C-section. She was just, oh, she was so amazing. And so she was like, I'm really sorry. I have to keep doing this. Every 15 minutes I have to press on your uterus. But once those two hours were done. But she was asking me to do that.

And she was like, okay, can you move your legs she was asking me to do that and she was like okay can you move your legs for me while i do this and i was like yeah and so i like showed her i like lifted my legs up for and she's like how are you doing that after a c-section and i was like i don't know she's like yeah most people can't move their legs at all for the like for like up to six hours after a c-section. She's like, we're 45 minutes out. Brandy. And she's like, it's got to be something to do with how that, how your epidural went, went bad. Oh.

Yeah. Oh, my God. But the C-section was so, oh, my gosh. It was the best thing ever. Like, the pain of being in labor for so long was so intense that the recovery from a c-section was like nothing to me like isn't that so ironic yes because you had been so adamant that you did not want a c-section that was like the one thing you didn't want yes because of the recovery like i knew that just meant extended potentially extended time off work potentially you know extended time where I can't you know get around with my baby and whatever

it hasn't been like that for me at all like it has been just amazing they gave me like this wound vac thing that I wore for like five days after I was the best thing ever it kept my incision like clean and dry and I just had to like go into the office and get it removed and it was it was practically healed by then they were it was a dirt devil right it was a dirt yes it was a yes a literal dirt devil just just hooked up to my incision yeah but yeah it was all worth it for this little baby oh my birth story is actually so similar to my mom's with my sister Casey my really her first child yes my mom's first baby she was in labor for 56 hours she did end up delivering her vaginally but I was a c-section afterwards because of how badly her labor went but yeah here she is And it was so worth it. I tell you what. You are a strong tough cookie. So every, you know, it did seem like, so that Tuesday was like, okay, Brandy might have the baby tonight.

Maybe tomorrow. And, you know, every morning I get a text from my mom. We're kind of like, do we have a baby yet? No. No. She took forever to come but and I was so nervous the entire time that like okay this is a really extended amount of time to be in labor like how do we know that London's okay and they just assured me the whole time they're like she looks amazing on the monitor like at at one point once they had broken my water, they moved from doing the belly monitors that I had on to like they attached a monitor to the top of her head.

Yeah. And so, I don't know. I felt confident with that. Yeah. But I was still super anxious that, you know, how do I know she's okay? Yeah. But she is. She's great.

She's a little cutie pie. She's chunked up a little bit. She has. She's chunked up a lot already she looks so cute she's the best baby too like she's already sleeping through the night that's wild it's crazy i don't even sleep through the night i didn't sleep through the night until my dad says until i was eight years old so yeah i think your parents are pissed yeah they definitely are but yeah she's just the perfect perfect little baby so we had a run-in with a

lactation specialist at the hospital which this poor woman i know that she was just trying to like show me what she was passionate about and make sure I was making a very like informed decision so immediately I I and I had talked about this on the podcast that I was willing to try breastfeeding but it was not something that I was super interested in and I didn't know um I wasn't going to be upset if I couldn't do it and because I didn't know how feasible it was for me to do going back to work and whatever. So immediately after having her, it was fine, you know, for the first day or two. And then on the second day, we went like two hours where she tried to nurse the entire time. And it was just very clear that she was

not getting what she needed. Right. And so I called my nurse in and I was like, I'm can, can you please bring formula like this is too stressful for me. I'm such a visual person that not being able to see like what she was getting and making sure that she was getting enough. Like it just wasn't working for me. Right. And so my nurse was like, absolutely. Yep. I'll bring you in formula. And it was as if the word formula just like echoed through the halls of the hospital. And there within like two minutes

was a lactation specialist at my door uh-huh barb her name was not barb her name was barb her name was barb in comes barb hey how's the breastfeeding going and i said it's not and she said oh what and i was like yep I've just decided that I'm switching to formula. And she said, really? And I said, mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm just, it's not for me. It's not for me. And she was like, well, oh, gosh, you know, it seems like you're frustrated right now.

And I'd really hate for you to be making that decision out of frustration. Yeah. And I was like and she was like maybe you know maybe it'd be a good idea to just you know take a little break get up walk some laps around the hospital and really think this over walk some laps yes well i was like i should have fucking c-section yesterday barb yeah no i'm i'm feeling good about my decision thank you barb and she was like well i just worry you know i worry about postpartum depression setting in you know if you decide not to breastfeed and i was like

okay i was like i i appreciate you know what you're trying to do here barb i'm really feeling pretty good about my decision but okay question yes do you regret making the wrong decision and she was so barb was like okay all right well you know what you know what i'm gonna do i'm just i'm gonna go get you a pump i was like barb i'm not i'm really not interested in a pump i'm i'm just not i'm really feeling i'm feeling pretty strongly about this and she's like okay okay all right so barb disappears in the meantime i have fed london like a quarter of a bottle of formula and she is loving her life and happy barb smack the bottle happy as a clam to finally have gotten some actual food yeah and so

she's sleeping peacefully i no longer have a brand new baby just attached to me things are good this was saturday and my doctor had asked me if possible would i like to go home on sunday so hospital protocol would keep me there until monday okay but she said you're doing really good the baby's doing great if i allowed you to would you want to go home on sunday and i said and i'm sure with covid they're like get exactly and i said yes i would love to and she said okay so we're gonna work on getting everything that needs to be done for london done and see if we can get you home on Sunday. And I was like, great. So in the meantime, after Barb has walked in, I'm now super relaxed, feeling great, feeling a ton of relief, having switched to formula.

8,000 other people are in and out of my room trying to check out London. She has to have a hearing test. She has to have all these blood tests done, whatever. My doctor comes in. The anesthesiologist comes in. I mean, Barb keeps fucking showing up. Barb walks in with a pump.

Uh-huh. And she asked me if I wanted to set it up. And I said, I'm sorry, Barb. I really don't. Thank you for bringing it. I'm,

I just don't. I'm, I'm good right now. And she's like, okay, okay. You know the problem? What?

Barb's on the teat of big boob she gets a kickback yeah no she obviously was very passionate about breastfeeding and there's a reason to be so but but yeah um it's the thing of your body your choice exactly and you were simply making the wrong choice. And so Barb was trying to help you out. So Barb disappears. Barb comes back again. And while there's another five people in my room, Barb comes back. This time she's got a styrofoam cup full of spoons.

What? Why? She wanted to show me how I could hand express some breast milk and then spoon feed it to the baby. No. I was like, you can set that with the pump stuff, Barb. She's like, okay, great. Okay, absolutely. She was very nice.

Well, of course. She was very nice. Barb leaves again. Comes back a couple minutes later. Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Barb shows up with some, I just want to leave you these handouts. This is just some information.

There's a breastfeeding support group. Blah blah blah. Here's all this stuff. Thank you Barb. I appreciate it very much. I was so frustrated

at that point. Yeah. I was like okay I get what you're doing. I understand. I know you're just trying to make sure that I'm making the

decision that I want to make in an informed decision. I've told you over and over again that this is what i want to do yeah i disagree that she was trying to help you make the decision you wanted to not that's true she wanted me to just to continue to attempt to breastfeed yeah it just wasn't for me yeah and that's fine yes it wasn't for me and i know know Barb thinks that was the wrong decision. Finally, Barb left and did not come back. And she erased her name off the board as she left. Did she take her spoons?

She left her spoons. She left her spoons. Sunday comes around and we're like about to get to go home. Like London's tests all came back great. Like everything was good. In walks another lactation specialist. Oh my. And she's like, I just wanted to follow up with you about how your breastfeeding was going.

And I said, I've switched to formula. I'm not breastfeeding. And she said, oh, okay. And how are you feeling about that decision? I said, I feel very good about it. And she said, okay, great. Have a great day. And that was the end that was the end oh we're probably going to get a lot of feedback on that i i know we will and i'm and you know what i wanted to try breastfeeding it just was not for me yeah

i feel like anything with motherhood people have very strong opinions absolutely i mean who can resist a chance to judge a woman that's exactly right here's the deal yes i am formula feeding my baby i'm very happy with it if you've got strong opinions about it i respect that but i don't want to hear brandy whether you want to hear him or not is just not a factor. All right. Should we move on to the Discord? David had the nerve to eat a Whopper in my room while I was not allowed to eat. Should we see if he can be charged with some sort of crime? I'm sure there's a crime there, right?

Yeah. Brandy, how do they get into this Discord? They just have to sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com slash LGTC podcast. There's three levels there now. I was waiting for you to say more. There's the appellate court. At that level, you get access to the Discord and a monthly bonus episode. And then there's the Supreme Court,

which you get all the benefits of the appellate level plus a sticker, a card with our autographs, and a monthly bonus video. And you get inducted on this very podcast. That's exactly right. I could tell you forgot all about it. I didn't forget at all. I was saving it for last.

And then there's our brand new sparkly level. What? That's right. Just launched. Well, I mean, by the time this comes out last week. Yeah. At this current time. Old news now, but right now it feels pretty fresh.

Pretty fresh. Bob Moss, the Mob Boss. That is $10 a month and it gets you all of the previous levels benefits. Plus you get ad free episodes and you get them a little bit early. Mm-hmm. Woo! Can't put a price tag on that. Oh, wait, you can.

It's $10 a month. $10 a month. Okay. Are we doing questions from the Discord? Yeah, we're doing questions. I think someone's confused. Why? As Nelson asked, Kristen, please give us your birth story.

I'm sorry. Well, maybe my personal birth story. Maybe the story of when you were burned. When you were burned. I was burned many years ago. Out my mother's womb. Ray Loves Dogs wants to know, what's your favorite part of motherhood oh my gosh i'm just looking at that little baby oh snuggling with her she's pretty cute she's so cute my dad oh yeah i forgot to say my dad texted me earlier today just to check on me. And I told him that I was here recording.

And he said to make sure that I talk about how beautiful London is. She really is very beautiful. Check. And then also to mention that she is the spitting image of him, which is also true. She looks. Okay. There was one picture you sent a while back that was just wild. How much she looked like my dad.

Yes. Which, I mean, I look a lot like my dad, so she looks a lot like me. She looks more like your dad than you do. Yes. Really? Yes. I mean, it's not a competition, but I'm just saying. She looks so much like my dad, yeah.

Ashley wants to know, what's one thing you wish they would have told you about labor? Yikes. Huh. You probably shouldn't have been told anything. Otherwise, they would have told you about labor? Yikes. Huh. You probably shouldn't have been told anything. Otherwise, you would have been like. No kidding. No kidding. You know, it's funny.

I really wasn't that concerned about the labor portion. Because I was like, they're going to give me drugs. I'll get through it. Like, I mean, she has to come out of me. This little girl was very stubborn and did not want to come out of me. In fact, even during the C-section. She held on to the inside? so they put this okay so they do the incision and then they put this ring in place this plastic ring to keep everything propped open so they can pull her out she grabbed that ring

and pulled it on her what she had her hand clamped around it she was she was very happy inside there yeah oh my gosh was not interested in coming out oh nat likes cats wants to know welcome back brandy do you have any nicknames for london yet oh so she hardly ever gets called london um it's mostly shelly we call her little love that's what david and i call her um that's what david called her when i was pregnant with her and it really has just stuck everybody else calls her london though yeah i call her lundy sometimes too i think little love is gonna stick till she's like 35 probably will brianna wants to know have you used the nipple cream yet? I have not. See my previous story about giving up breastfeeding after one and a half days.

Hey, that doesn't mean you can't lube up them nips. Those nips were... A chapped? Chapped. They were bloody. It was terrible. Did you have the cream? When I tell you breastfeeding was not for me, it was not for me, Kristen.

Are you sure, hon? You want to try again? Damn it, Barb. I bet you spoons. Oh, Schmarls Barkley wants to know, what do you think of your replacements so far on the podcast? Is there any real competition? I thought they were both excellent.

Norm replaced you on the bonus episode. Don't forget about Norm. Norm didn't do a case case is all that I meant And he did a bang up job on that intro I loved his impression of me Okay Maybe we'll put in that intro Because that intro is so funny

It's hilarious It's ridiculous Actually if you want to hear the intro you just have to sign up for our Patreon Oh man Listen babies are expensive folks I gotta buy diapers Yeah before we did that episode i was like norm do you want to see a copy of the intro and he looked at me like i was an idiot and he was like i know your intro well then we got into it the boy was lying he and he did he tried to do the intro in my voice so it was wonderful any real competition um so

kyla and your dad both did cases which i respect very much because it is a lot of work to put together a case for the podcast and so for them to come in and and do that i thought they both did great jobs i loved the dynamic between you and kyla obviously i thought it was great we've had your dad on before so that wasn't a surprise. Old news. No, it wasn't a surprise that he would be hilarious. His episode was great. But I thought Kyla did great.

I thought the piece of feedback that we got on her was that she sounds Southern. I never would have thought that about her ever. It's really funny, isn't it? But we got that from a lot of people, that she sounds Southern. And I don't know. Oh, Amy Draper wants to know how do you feel about dp permanently taking over your job as co-host i was pretty upset to hear that yeah well no sorry brandy that's how i found out that i got fired from my own podcast yeah well these things

happen tiana wants to know kristin are you sick of everyone asking about Brandy? Yes, absolutely. Do I have to have a baby just to get some attention? I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it right now. Hey, I learned from Michelle Williams. You don't actually have to go through.

That's right. Guys, I'm pregnant with twins right now. I'm pregnant with twins. London didn't like that. Oh, sorry. Brianna also wants to know has Norm held London yet twice very awkwardly

I wish maybe in the bonus video we'll do an impression of Norm holding London or we'll just have we'll just make Norm hold London that'll be the whole bonus video 10 minutes of Norm awkwardly holding London he couldn't do it for 10 minutes he would die

okay bonus video idea we just turn the camera on we act like we're gonna record something else and we're like hey can you hold london while we're doing this and it's just a timer to see how long you can make it okay so guys just picture norm with a stick up his ass yeah holding a baby that's how he holds a baby yeah he's terrified the whole time he's like just completely rigid yeah and not yeah tries to hold his breath essentially he's he's very worried something will go wrong yeah swanner wants to know has peanut met london yet yes just happened just happened tell the story. Peanut met London today. I came to the door and I had London in her car seat carrier and Peanut stuck her head in, gave her a good sniff

and decided she was safe. Approved. Yes. Peanut was not sure at first. No. Did a big sniff. That's right. Now we're good. Yes. Mariah Limeth wants to know what day did you have london who won the bet so we did just say it was the 19th and i'm i'm sorry it's your fault kristin i'm i've never been first of all i'm not competitive so i didn't care about winning no but as the days dragged on it was like oh no yeah oh no she's gonna hold out until the 19th. And she sure did. So that was Kristen's guess. Uh-huh.

And that's the date she was born on. Yay, me. And my long-term friend only had to do 50-plus hours of labor. Oh. London, baby girl. London didn't want me to win either. No one wanted that. June 19th, Kristen won. and i've never been more pissed about

yeah so on the 18th like that whole day they were like oh yeah you're for sure having her today you're for sure having her today like all the way up to like 10 o'clock that night they were like yeah she'll be here before midnight she'll be here before midnight liars a whole lot of 103 a.m on june 19th oh oh nerd burger wants to know how has having a baby had an effect on your trivia skills um you've never been better that's exactly right killing it at trivia we won the whole freaking thing which you and kyla talked about how we were in the finals on that episode my big bone to pick with you you and kyla mentioned it in passing we won the whole fucking thing who cares kristen who cares and then last week they needed a last minute fill-in team uh-huh so we did it we did it without jay who is

our team leader is our team leader he is the spirit of the team yes we had to do it without him kyla had to be the team captain and what we do on that one kristin we won brandon that's right that is right we won do you want to know something for real? Yeah. Okay, so we won by one point. Yeah. Which we've done many times. Yes. Because Casey knows how to do the strategic wager at the end.

Right. Yes. And we have beaten the same team by one point multiple times. Yes, we have. And honestly, I feel bad. You feel bad for that? I feel bad about it. Kristen.

Everybody else is like shooting off the confetti cannons. I'm feeling bad. And you're like, oh, I feel so bad that we beat the same team. That team is great. Oh, Brandi, do not condescend to them. If we had been beaten that many times by one point by another team, would you be like, oh, it's okay. We're great.

We're great. We're great. We're in second place. It's fine. No, I wouldn't be satisfied with second place, but. She wouldn't either. Neither would London. Anyway, the point of this is to tell you that we're still all amazing at trivia and Kristen couldn't care less.

I've never been amazing at trivia. I'm just on an amazing team. You have gotten some very strategic questions right. Like what? Um. See? I rest my case. We knew the Larry Flint one because of you. Yeah that's one one question out of like hundreds. Hundreds I tell you. Whatever. No it's it's a great time. I have a lot of fun with it. I just wish all the teams could win.

No, I wish everyone could win every time. I think now we should move on to some Supreme Court inductions. Oh, you do, do you? I didn't think it would be such a problem for you. I didn't think it would be such a problem for you. Well, I clearly don't have... My eyes are pretty cold. I touched it. Are you unfamiliar with how we do this? No.

So we are inducting people, and we are giving their names and their favorite book still. Correct, Kristen? That's correct. Still. Wow. Still. Way to make it sound stale.

No, no, no. And we're giving their favorite books! Oh my God! Amazing! Alright, London, are you ready? She's not. We better bust through this. Laura Rodriguez. The Coldest

Winter Ever. Angie Amon. Untamed by Glennon Doyle. Corey Longhurst. The Coldest Winter Ever. Angie Amon. Untamed by Glennon Doyle. Corey Longhurst. The Harry Potter Series. Molly Martin. Any Tom Clancy Isaac Bell Series. Alyssa. Good in Bed by Jennifer Wiener.

Tiffany Howard. A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole. Rachel Smith. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. Herb Jones. In this country we pronounce it Herb. No! It's the name! It's Herb!

Wasp Factory by Lion Banks? I think it's... Okay, so I just read a book by this guy. Uh-huh. I think it's like Ian, but I'm not positive. I mean it... Okay. Wasp Factory! By some guy book by this guy. Uh-huh. I think it's like Ian, but I'm not positive. I mean, okay. Wasp Factory. By some guy. Banks. By

Mr. Banks. By Mr. Banks. Matthew. My favorite book is no book because I can't read. Okay? Illiteracy is not a laughing matter, Brandy. Benjamin Jay. The Stand by Stephen King. illiteracy is not a laughing matter Benjamin J

The Stand by Stephen King Mariah The Harry Potter Series Jodie Corvillo Girl Interrupted Welcome to the Supreme Court You are not on your A-games I am, I'm taking a breather

real quick, collecting myself Thank you guys for all of your support You are not on your A-games. I am. I'm taking a breather real quick. Okay. Collecting myself. Thank you guys for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. It feels so good to be back. I'm glad you're back. It's a bit of a shit show trying to balance a baby. I'm so sorry.

Why are you sorry? I feel bad because she made a lot of noises while we were recording. You know. No, seriously, thank you for all of your support, guys. You make this a lot easier to do. You have made my life a lot easier in these past few weeks. Being able to take maternity leave, like legit, you guys' support on this podcast has been a huge part of that. Yeah, no, let's seriously.

Yeah. So the reason I cried yesterday when we opened up the new tier and people signed up for it, like the reason you're able to take the type of maternity leave you're able to take is because of the podcast and because of people's support for the podcast. Yeah. And it's huge. We did this for a really long time for just the fun of it. Yeah. It feels really good to do it for the fun of it. And for the sweet dollar bills. Yeah. Dollar bills, y'all. No, we really do appreciate you guys. And we want you to know that. Yeah, seriously.

It's amazing. And it's unbelievable how much support we get. It really is. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social... Why can't I say social media? Social media. Social media. Please find us on social media.

We're on Facebook. We're on Twitter. We're on Instagram. We're on Patreon. Find us all of those places. Please subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. Head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us on Twitter. We're on Instagram. We're on Patreon. Find us all of those places. Please subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. Head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a rating.

Leave us a review. And then be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. You got your birth story from Wikipedia?

I did. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the Temptation in Texas episode of 48 Hours, as well as reporting from the Daily Mail and NBC-DFW. I got my info from giving birth. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.