Let's Go To Court! - 133: The Watcher & Laura Ingalls Wilder

Episode Date: July 29, 2020

Derek and Maria Broaddus couldn’t have been more thrilled. In the summer of 2014, they bought their dream home in Westfield, New Jersey. But their dream home quickly turned into a nightmare when the couple received a series of unsettling anonymous letters. The letter writer knew their names. The writer knew the nicknames they gave their children. The writer alluded to secrets within the walls of the home, and referred to the Broaddus children as “young blood.” Each creepy letter was signed, “the watcher.”  Then, Kristin tells us about the controversy surrounding the literary estate of Laura Ingalls Wilder. Laura Ingalls Wilder authored the Little House on the Prairie series of children’s books. She began writing them when she was in her sixties. The books brought her tremendous financial stability. When she died, her will was crystal clear. Her literary estate would go to her daughter, Rose Wilder Lane. Upon Rose’s death, the literary estate would go to the Laura Ingalls Library of Mansfield, Missouri. But that’s not what happened.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Lawsuit on the prairie: Battle pits small library against huge estate,” by Hallie Levine for the New York Post “Little library on the offensive,” by Lynda Richardson for The New York Times “Little library on the prairie  in a legal tangle,” by Stephanie Simon for the Los Angeles Times “Little house on the controversy: Laura Ingalls Wilder’s name removed from book award,” by Kat Chow for NPR “Rose Wilder Lane” entry on Wikipedia “Laura Ingalls Wilder” entry on Wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Haunting of a Dream House” by Reeves Wiedeman, The Cut “The Real Life Story Of The Watcher Feels Like A Stephen King Novel” by Alana Robson, TheThings.com “'The Watcher' house is sold years after a family was terrorized with creepy letters” by Allen Kim, CNN

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll talk about Laura Ingalls Wilder. And I'll be talking about The Watcher. Wow, Brandi, very good of you to get your shit together.

I'm so sorry! How many times did we take that intro? So many times I couldn't stop laughing, I'm so sorry! We've had did we take that intro? So many times I'm going to stop laughing. I'm so sorry. We've had kind of a goofy day. So we, okay, you, me, and Norm sat around, ate lunch, had popsicles. Yeah. And we started talking about, like, the worst insults we've ever told anyone.

And now we're just a bunch of giggles. I'm very serious. You might be laughing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now we're just a bunch of giggles. I'm very serious. You might be laughing. Oh, yeah. I'm a seasoned professional. That's exactly right. Meaning I smell kind of spicy right now.

Like curry I heard. Yeah, you guys, my dad came into my house a few minutes ago. My dad who eats, you know, he has the palate of a six-year-old. And he comes in and he goes, it smells like curry in here. It's like, first of all, how do you even know what curry smells like? And that doesn't make any sense. And it doesn't smell like curry in here. So maybe he doesn't know what curry smells like. Maybe that's the whole thing. He just says that randomly. He's hoping that he gets it right sometime. What if we just stare at each other for the next 20 minutes and recorded the background noise? Well, I think that would put us on what they call a downward trajectory with this podcast. We're trying to build it up into something.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Speaking of building. Yeah. Did you know that we built a new level on the Patreon? Wow. Tell me more.

First, let's put on our hard hats. Yeah. Yeah. I built it with my hard hat on. I didn't do it at all. Kristen did it, actually. Yeah. Little Miss I'm on maternity leave, taking care of her infant child yeah that's right

folks there is a new level to the patreon it is the bob moss tier which puts you above the law that's right as a bob moss you get your weekly episodes early you get them ad free and you get all the benefits of the lower levels including a monthly bonus episode a monthly bonus video access to the discord which is like a 90s chat room you get inducted onto this podcast get your little name read aloud and brandy sends you a sticker with our lovely autographs on the card man boom the list is endless except that's where it is it goes on and on and on until we get to the end so if you'd like more of us head on over to patreon.com slash lgtc podcast today wow we haven't gotten the least bit rusty. Not at all.

You got a good one for me, Missy? Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Yes. If I were listening, I would just hit pause on that. Well, I was going to start with a disclaimer anyway, so that's where my mind is. Disclaimer, this case sucks. No, disclaimer, this case is excellent.

Oh, okay. But has very little court stuff but you know what i i decided that this is our fucking podcast and i'm doing this case anyway wow wow she's bold folks she's got an attitude all right uh shout outs all around to everyone in the world for their help with this case to ben and blue orchid in the discord oh they both recommended this case got yourself a double recommend that's right and then also to reeves weidman for the cut slash the new yorker okay because the cut's part of the new yorker is that is that how that works kristin um i don't know but you know sometimes well sometimes i'm sorry it's not even part of the new yorker it's part of new york magazine oh let me get my shit correct here okay

okay anyway so this piece was written for the cut which is part of new york magazine anyway um reeves weidman almost all of this information for this comes from this article that Reeves wrote. Because every other article about this case all goes back to this. Goes back to his article. Yes. Okay. Or hers.

Reeves could be a man or a woman, I guess. That's true. Who are we to decide? That's right. Not us. Well, that didn't make sense. Who are we? Not us. Not us. Well, that didn't make sense. Who are we?

Not us. Not us. It was June of 2014. And Derek and Maria brought us. We're flying high. They just bought their dream home in Westfield, New Jersey. This was a goal that had been a long time coming for the broadest family maria had grown up in the upscale new jersey neighborhood and wanted to raise their three children there derrick had grown up kind of in a working class family in maine but westfield was

exactly the kind of place that he'd always dreamed of so he'd worked really hard climbing the ladder at an insurance company in manhattan and he'd finally landed a senior vice president role yeah it does talk about a ladder i do not want to be on yeah his salary was finally large enough to afford the type of home they'd always dreamed of and so the couple dropped 1.3 million dollars on a beautiful six bedroom four bath 3900 square foot home located at oh my god okay yes 657 boulevard westfield new jersey okay oh i can do pull it up on zillow and there's pictures of the inside it's beautiful cute yeah it's. It was built like in 1905. Here's a fun fact.

Does Westfield, New Jersey sound familiar to you at all, Kristen? No. It didn't sound familiar to me either. I've actually done a case in Westfield, New Jersey before. Oh, really? Because that's where John List lived. Oh, God. The family annihilator, John List.

Okay, you don't have to say it like, friend of the podcast, family annihilator. You're right. I totally said it like that. Uh-huh. So John Liss' house is actually like two miles from this house. This house is very nice. Oh, I love the floor and the dining room. Yeah, it's a very nice house.

Okay, you don't have to say it like that. It's a beautiful house. I love it. All right, all right. You house okay you don't have to say it like that it's it's a beautiful house i love it all right all right you know what i don't like in the master bathroom you know they've got their sink oh yeah and they just left the pipe exposed yeah like like we're at a national park yes restroom i thought the exact same thing what somebody saved some money you put it you put some cabinet doors on there? Absolutely. You don't want a place to hide your lotions? Yeah. Your various lotions, Brandi?

How many lotions you got under your sink in there? So many lotions. I mean, I'm a very dry person, both in my sense of humor and in my skin and hair. So, yeah, I really have to lube up. Lube up. These are the problems in my life. Say lube up. You bought me lotion in my life. Say lube up. You bought me lotion recently.

Yeah. And I keep it. Right there in your drawer. Right here. It looks like I'm going to need to buy you a replacement lotion for that one. Well, you know, you got this for me like a year ago, so. What if this was just my hint every. You're like, I hope she's noticing how low this lotion's getting.

Oh, gosh. My body sure could get creamed up. Oh, God. Can you guys hear that? Ew, she's lotioning right now into the microphone, guys. Gross. Sorry. Stop it.

Okay, you know what? You made me record the intro five times so as punishment i will now lube up my hands all right back to the case okay as is often the case when buying a new home there were a few projects updates renovations whatever yeah they had to rip out the cabinets under the sink so they could see that beautiful plumbing so there are a couple of updates that they wanted to do before they moved in one night shortly after closing on the home derek was there alone doing some painting it was after 10 when he finished up and before heading home for the night he decided he'd check the mailbox so they weren't living at the house yet or anything so he figured there wouldn't be

much of anything in there but checked it anyway and there were kind of you know the expected pieces of junk mail whatever and then there was a white envelope with thick black handwriting on it. It was addressed to the new owner. Derek opened the envelope and inside was a typed letter. It read, Dearest New Neighbor at 657 Boulevard, allow me to welcome you to the neighborhood. How did you end up here? Did 657 Boulevard call to you with its force within?

657 Boulevard has been the subject of my family for decades now. And as it approached its 110th birthday, I have been put in charge of watching and waiting for its second coming. Oh, God. What the fuck? My grandfather watched the house in the 20s. No. Ew. And my father watched it in the 60s. Oh, God. What the fuck? No. Ew.

Oh, my God. I would poop. I've got goosebumps. I would poop my pants. Seriously, right? Why are you here? I will find out. Ew. fuck because i liked it oh my god uh the writer continued and in an effort to make it clear that they'd been watching the family they included specific details loud and clear dude yeah they mentioned the family's minivan

and pointed out that you know they'd seen multiple workers coming in and out of the home, presumably working on the renovations. Oh my God. The letter continued. No. I see already that you flooded 657 Boulevard with contractors so that you can destroy the house as it was supposed to be. Oh. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Bad move. Ew. You don't want to make 657 Boulevard unhappy. Ew, what the fuck? Then the writer continued and talked about the three broadest children. You have children. I have seen them. So far, I think there are three that I have counted.

Are there more on the way? Ew. Do you need to fill the house with the young blood I requested? Oh, God, what? Better for me. Was your old house too small for your growing family? Or was it greed to bring me your children? Jesus Christ.

Once I know their names, I will call to them and draw them to me. Brandy, no. What have you done? Is this not so fucking creepy a woman wrote this letter oh you think i think so okay do you need to oh sorry i wrote sorry i read that part please do not skip a beat in this creepy ass letter the envelope had no return address. Of course not. But the person kind of addressed that. They said, who am I? There are hundreds and hundreds of cars that drive by 657 Boulevard every day.

Maybe I'm in one. Look out any of the many windows in 657 Boulevard at all the people who stroll by each day. Maybe I am one. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. the people who stroll by each day maybe i am one oh my god oh my god the letter concluded um saying basically that this would probably not be the last message oh it said welcome my friends welcome let the party begin and it was was signed, The Watcher. Okay. Okay.

What do you do? Prediction. Just a prediction. Okay. It is an old woman who's lived in this neighborhood forever, and she lives within eyesight of this house. Okay. I would be like, fuck this. Goodbye.

Moving. Yeah. Right? I really do think i mean just because norman and i have moved enough um i have come to really appreciate the role that neighbors yeah um we've had so our first place we had amazing neighbors to the left of us like they became like our best buddies we'd go to to dinner with them like at least once a week yeah and we just kind of took for granted like that's a normal thing yeah next place not the king yeah yes what was it that that guy said to me our neighbor said to me came up to me one day and said that a lot of people think he's gay, but he will have sex with a woman if it's the right woman.

And then he let me know that he was HIV negative and chlamydia free. You know. You know. If you ever want to sample the goods. I've got all the other STDs, but not those two. Yeah, and now we've got good neighbors again. And, oh. Okay, so you get this.

You move in. You're getting ready to move into a new house you get this letter you're like fucking i'm out of here oh gosh i don't know i i'd like to think so yeah so i don't know what would you do uh i don't know what i would do i because it is it's your dream house yeah exactly finally got it yeah and you know there i think there would be a stubborn part of me that like that would be like this is just some asshole yeah and i'm not going to bend to their will right oh but that that is creepy as hell so remember it's like 10 it's like 10 o'clock at night it's dark out derrick is by himself at the house he reads this letter he freaks the fuck out he runs around the house turning off all the lights because he's like this person could be like looking in absolutely absolutely and then he

called the police yeah an officer came out the officer looked over the letter and then looked at derrick and he goes what the fuck is this and derrick's like i know right and the officer was like do you have you know standard questions do you have any enemies blah blah blah and then he kind of looked around the house and he pointed out a couple things that he thought that derrick should do before he left the house that night like there was some construction equipment that was on the back porch and he was like move that because someone could throw that through the back door like the glass and get in yeah and so he did those things and then Derek was like I've got to get home to my family like maybe if they know like that we live here maybe they know our figure out where our old house is yeah and so he rushes home to their their former house they hadn't sold it yet because

they've moved in the new one yet. And fills his wife in on what had happened. And she freaks out too. And so the first thing they decide they should do after talking to the police is write an email to the old owners.

Oh, yeah. People they bought the house from. Good idea. Good idea. So they email them. John and Andrea Woods. They are a couple who had sold the house to them.

They have adult children. They decided they didn't need a place who had sold the house to them they have adult children they decided they didn't need a place that big anymore they had lived there like 23 years um and so they write them an email and they're like do you do you know anything any of the adult children super attached to the house that's a good question i don't know okay i'm trying to get to the bottom of this mystery. So a part of, so I didn't read you the entire letter. Are you serious? No, that was not the entire letter.

There were parts that cut out. Oh my God. That's what was available in this article. At one point, it referenced the Woods family saying that the Watcher had asked them to bring young blood into the home. Ew. Yes. Yeah. And so they write this email to Andrea Woods.

They're like, hey, thanks for telling us about the creep. Right. And she responded the very next morning and said, you know, they had lived there 23 years. Nothing weird had ever happened. A few days before moving out, they had received a similar note, similar similar letter i got stuck trying to make those the same word the note that had been signed the watcher they had read it they thought it was super

fucking weird uh-huh but they just disregarded it they'd thrown it away they hadn't thought anything more of it oh apparently it didn't have any threats against them so i can't i'm i can't imagine doing nothing doing nothing just throwing and i don't know what their letter said i have trouble believing it was as menacing it was totally normal i'm sure it wasn't. You guys have been great neighbors. Bye-bye. So the Broaddus' asked the Woods if they would mind coming to the police station with them and saying, you know, what they knew, that they'd received a letter as well. And so they did. Maria and Andrea went to the police station together and talked to a detective. And the detective told the Broaddususes not to tell anyone about the letter. That would become really crucial because his thoughts were that it was probably someone who

lived in a very close proximity to the house. He's a genius just like me. Exactly. And that basically everyone who lived around them were suspects. And so them not knowing about the letters was important to like weed people out. So if people made any mentions of anything or used language similar to what was in the letters, like those would be good signs that that was a possible suspect. I don't know. That's not how you'd handle it? You'd be going door to door asking if they wrote this letter? No, I don't know.

I think your neighbors are generally pretty good resources uh-huh about other neighbors and like what if you walk up to the neighbor who did it that's not what i mean like so the creepy neighbor i just described who graciously offered to have sex with me which is more than i can say for you today. But like, I really appreciated when we first moved in and kind of before we knew what that guy's deal was, um, the neighbors directly across from us, the, the man told me that that guy was really creepy and that he did not let his daughters around that guy. And I appreciated that. Yeah.

So I kind of think that if you're trying to suss out a creep in the neighborhood. Yeah. Not that I would necessarily go up to every neighbor and be like, hey, who's the creep around here? But I would, I wouldn't necessarily be super quiet. Right. All right. All right. All right.

Would you be a good little brandy and do what the police said do what the police said yeah yeah 100 i do what the police said okay i wouldn't mention it to anyone but i would be on fucking high alert i'd be watching everybody would you tell me my eyes would be darting constantly yeah i'd tell you okay and then i'd go tell everybody um and this is exactly what the broadass did they spent the next couple of weeks just completely like so paranoid super anxious derek was supposed to go like on a work trip oh hell no canceled and maria like they were still trying to get worked out at the house so that they could consider moving in and so anytime maria was there with the kids oh my god they'd be playing in the backyard and they'd get too far from the porch and she'd scream and yell at them to come back like

she said keep that young blood person yeah exactly um i would have security cameras up oh yeah yeah and and eventually they do do that okay they put in a security system do do they do do that. Okay. They put in a security system. Do do. They do do. It's a comedy podcast. Gotta keep it light. That's why you're here. The quality content going. So at one point, as you mentioned,

they're super paranoid. At one point, a couple who lived in the neighborhood wanted to see the work that they were doing on a house. And they were like, no, creeps. No, and so Derek was like, yeah, you mentioned, they're super paranoid. At one point, a couple who lived in the neighborhood wanted to see the work that they were doing on the house. And they were like, no, creeps. No, and so Derek was like, yeah, you know, and he's giving them through a tour. And as he's showing them what he does, like what they've done to the house, just like in conversation, the wife of the couple said, oh, my gosh, it's going to be so nice to have some young blood in the neighborhood. Oh, no, that's weird. And he's like, oh, shank her immediately. And so he did. He murdered her right there. And that's weird and he's like oh shank her immediately and so he did he

murdered her right there and that's the case no but he's like what the fuck yeah because the saying is new blood you don't say young blood you say it's nice to have a a young couple in the neighborhood i try not to bring up the word blood at all when I'm welcoming people to the neighborhood. Well, sure, that's ideal, but I'm just saying new blood is the saying. Young couple is the saying.

I like when we have fresh meat. I'd like to dig my fork into your ass. That's what I say to all new neighbors in this neighborhood. And you thought it was your neighbor who was so weird yeah now the neighbors just warn him about me

if she comes at you with a fork yeah what grison didn't tell you when she told that story about her neighbor offering to have sex with her was that she'd let in by saying i'd like to dig my fork into your ass. I've just been searching for someone who's chlamydia free. You know what I mean? Hint, hint. Wink, wink. That's my opening line with everyone, Brandy. Works sometimes.

Two weeks went by. Mm-hmm. And another letter arrived. Oh, my God. Maria had stopped to get the mail. She was bringing, like, some paint samples over to the house. They were going to pay, you know, a couple swatches, check it out, see it in the light.

Mm-hmm. And so she checked the mail, and there was a white envelope with that same thick black lettering on it. Fuck. She called the police immediately to report that they'd gotten this letter. This is what it said. Welcome again to your new home at 657 Boulevard. Oh my God.

The workers have been busy and I've been watching you unload carfuls of your personal belongings. The dumpster is a nice touch. Have they found what is in the walls yet? Ew! No! What? In time they will. Ew!

This time the watcher specifically called Derek and Maria like by their names. He just misspelled it. He called them Mr. and Mrs. Braddus, but he spelled their last name wrong. Mm-hmm. Which meant to them that he'd been, like, this, or he, this part, the Watcher, had been close enough to have been, like, in earshot, and here are people referring to them by name. Mm.

He went on, I keep saying he. Here's a spoiler. Okay. You don't know who did it? This case is unsolved. No, Brandy. We do not know who the Watcher is. Oh, this is good.

That's why there's not much court stuff. Yes. Okay, continue. Okay. So this made the Broaddusest think that the watcher had been close enough to hear them be called by name by the contractors whoever the letter went on to talk about how this person had obviously learned a lot about the children he referred to them by the nicknames oh god that the parents called them oh So, yeah, this person was in earshot. Mm-hmm.

And, okay, so this is how the letter continued. I'm pleased to know your names now and the name of the young blood you have brought to me. You certainly say their names often. And then the letter went on to talk about how the watcher had seen one of the children sitting on this, like, enclosed porch area with an easel. Oh, God. And the letter said, is she the artist in the family? 657 Boulevard is anxious for you to move in. It has been years and years since the Youngblood ruled the hallways of the house.

Have you found all the secrets it holds yet? Will the Youngblood play in the basement? Or are they too afraid to go down there alone? Oh my God. I would be very afraid if I were them. It's far away from the rest of the house. If you were upstairs, you'd never hear them scream. Oh my God, this person is psychotic.

Will they sleep in the attic? Or will you all sleep on the second floor? Who has the bedrooms facing the street? Shut up. I'll know as soon as you move in. It will help me to know who is in which bedroom. Then I can plan better. Okay, I'd be done.

Fuck, right? Yeah, yeah. Because at this point it's like... This has escalated. Yeah, so this is not just some asshole yeah all of the windows and doors in 657 boulevard allow me to watch you and track you as you move through the house who am i i am the watcher and have been in control of 657 boulevard for the better part of two decades now the woods Woods family turned it over to you. It was their time to move on,

and kindly they sold it to you when I asked them to. Oh! I pass by many times a day. 657 Boulevard is my job, my life, my obsession. Oh. And now you are too, Bradis family. Welcome to the product of your greed. Greed is what brought the past three families to 657 Boulevard.

And now it has brought you to me. Happy moving in day. You'll know I'll be watching. And again, it was signed The Watcher. Fuck, right? Oh my God. So at this point, Derek and Maria were like, the kids are no longer

allowed at the house ever. And they were like, yeah, we're probably not moving in here. No, no. Not worth it. The mention of the easel was particularly terrifying to them because it was a very closed porch area that you would have to be like right next to the house to be able to see.

No. Yeah. And so the fact that someone had been there and seen their daughter using the easel, that was like it. They were pretty sure at that point that they could never move in to this house. What? Is this house. What? Is this like an attic guy? Is there someone living in the house? That's a good theory.

Thank you. I don't know. Let's continue. Okay. So another few weeks go by and a third letter arrives. In this one, the watcher wrote, where have you gone to? 657 Boulevard is missing you. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. So at the time that this was going on, Westfield, which is like 45 minutes outside of New York City, had just been ranked the 99th richest city in America and the 30th safest. Like people. And this is something that the Woods said when they when they asked them about receiving any creepy letters. They said, we don't even lock the doors. This is how the guy got in. It is posted up in the air. Yeah.

end this is posted up in the end yeah yeah so this was just here here derek and maria were moving into an area that they thought was just like idyllic and now they're living their nightmare when they can't even get into their house because of this creep oh it seemed that until this point to them the most difficult or dangerous part of the city to navigate was the real estate market. It was cutthroat. Oftentimes, bidding wars would send housing prices like $300,000 above asking. So immediately, they're thinking it's someone who was outbid. Yes, that was their first thought. So Braz's house was not first thought so the bras's house

was was not an exception to this like the house was beautiful it was on the boulevard which was like this great like tree-lined street that was seen as like one of the most desirable parts of the city um and so when they had bid on this house there had been multiple offers and there had been officers or offers there had been offers above asking including what the broadest is offered um and so that was initially what their thought was like maybe this is someone they outbid yeah um so they talked to the woods about that and they're like actually you know it ended up you guys ended up being the only offer you know there were other offers at first but somebody backed out because a medical problem and somebody else found another home like when the bidding war

was going on and so you guys got the house because you were the only one that kept your offer in yeah it wasn't some big contentious thing yes exactly and so when they learned this from the woods family they were like the woods actually proposed possibly another theory they said you know the letters that you have told us about like they mention contractors and they mention a lot of stuff specific to the house. Like, is it possible that it's maybe someone in the neighborhood who's upset about the noise of a renovation? Okay, this is not someone who's upset about noise. This is someone who is off their walker. I agree.

I agree. And so this was something that the Broaddus' believed and the police agreed on. These letters were coming from someone who lived close to the house. Inside the house.

It was already in the house. Yeah. So the letters were being sent from a post office that was like the post office that served the neighborhood. Damn. Okay.

I thought it was someone who was walking in a mailbox. No, they were being mailed. Okay. But the first letter had been postmarked June 4th. Okay. The house, the sale on the house didn't officially close until June 6th. Wow. And the Woods family had never even put a for sale sign in the yard

this deal had gone so quickly so it had to be someone in the neighborhood that knew this sale was going on yes or someone or you know friends of the woods yeah yeah children of the woods yeah Yeah. Yeah. Children of the woods. Yeah. Police, like when they were doing this initial investigation, they didn't, they kind of like went through the house. They talked about the renovations they'd been doing. They asked, you know, if anybody complained about the noise or whatever. They talked to a couple of neighbors around and nobody had seemed to even hear anything. Even though they had to do some kind of foundation work in the basement that involved jackhammering. No one mentioned hearing that at all

so it didn't seem like that was no because people get mad about noise but like they're not like you know the solution to this i'll write the creepiest letter that's ever been written yeah no kidding and i'll stalk these people's children no so derrick was very focused on the line about the easel he was like yeah this to me means that someone has a direct sight line to our house or has been like in our backyard in our backyard yeah and so he talked to the detective who was kind of looking into this case about it he showed him specifically and while he was showing them they kind of looked over and there was a direct eye line to the house next door. Okay. And so during a neighborhood barbecue, Derek got to chatting with a guy who lived, you know, a couple doors down.

And the conversation turned to the people who lived in the house next door. They were the Langfords. The owner of the house was Peggy Langford. She was in her 90s. Mm-hmm. Oh. Mm her 90s I know Kristen when you said that I was like wow uh-huh so the owner is Peggy Langford she's 90 she's lived in the home for decades Brandy case solved and she has several adult children in their 60s living in the home with her. Yeah. This neighbor that Derek talked to said that the family was odd,

but, like, that was it. They kind of kept to themselves, whatever. They just watch. They don't talk to you. They just watch. So much so that he referred to Peggy's son, Michael, as kind of a Boo Radley character. Oh, okay.

Okay. So Derek's like, I got it. He was like, I'm all in with Kristen. I'm so sorry. I just clapped into the mic. I forgot that. People love that. It's my first time podcasting. Snap, crack crackle and pop right in front of that mic

that's exactly right so derek's like this is it it's the langford's 100 yes like arrest him now um and so he got a little more information they had lived there since the 60s like it was things were lining up pretty well and so Derek went and talked to this detective about it he's like this is who it is this is it get over there look into it and he was like yeah I already did okay I went and talked they're all dead I went and talked to Michael Langford. I brought him into the station when I first started investigating this case, right after that first letter came. And he didn't know anything about the letters. And, you know, it seems like it can't be them.

How? How can it not be them? I don't know. Mm-hmm. Detective can't be them. How? How can it not be them? I don't know. Detective didn't know either. Yeah, I agree. And bring that, wheel that 90-year-old in is what I'm saying. There wasn't much evidence, though. And so, like, there was nowhere for this investigation to go.

And so the detectives kind of sat the broadest family down they're like listen if unless you guys get a confession from someone there's not much we can do and this pissed derrick off bad yeah he's like this is someone who has threatened my kids they've threatened my family and you're gonna tell me that probably nothing's gonna happen like that's unacceptable this is a rich white man he's not used to he's definitely probably nothing's going to happen? Like, that's unacceptable. This is a rich white man. He's not used to it. He's definitely not. He's definitely not.

And he told the police that, like, if you guys don't take care of it, you're going to have a different kind of case on your hand. When I, like, beat somebody's ass. I was thinking, like, a big lawsuit. That's more of the. Okay. Brandy. Yeah. You and me.

Yeah. Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen detective oh yeah we start our own agency where we just handle stuff like this yeah i would post up over at peggy's house i'd fuck yeah i'd knock the binoculars right off her face i'd be like leave those kids alone find her at her old ass typewriter type of that letter yes yes so the broadices are pissed because the police are like listen like we get it this is fucking creepy you're right there's nothing we can do and so they started their own investigation and derrick became obsessed i i totally understand derrick he set up cameras he hired private investigators he spent like the night kind of crouched in the dark

at the house watching oh hell yeah it it became a bit of a problem how obsessed he was with the bull you get the horns that's right he started being like he set up one of those rooms in his house where he's got all the charts and there's the red yarn going from everywhere. He legitimately had something very similar. He made charts and he had circles for this is how far someone would have to be to be an earshot of us. So these houses here fall within that circle. This man has spent his whole career in the most boring job imaginable finally something huge has happened to him of course he's gonna track it all down

yeah so as i mentioned they hire a private investigator he you know stakes out the neighborhood runs a bunch of bunch of background checks on people living you know within the radius nothing no there's not going to be anything on this. There's nothing. There's nothing. So then Derek reaches out to this former FBI agent who was actually the inspiration for the character Clarice Starling from The Silence of the Lambs. OK.

They had been like on some kind of like board of trustees together. Uh huh. And so reaches out. Nothing. She's like, I'm sorry, I've got much bigger things to do. Exactly. They hired this guy to conduct a threat assessment and like look into. Yeah.

Who who's in the surrounding area? Who could this be? And where do they rank in like the suspect list? Oh, I misunderstood what that. What do you think a threat assessment would be? I would want someone to look at the language of those letters

and I would want, you know, a psychologist or somebody to tell me, okay, is this someone who's just trying to be as scary as possible

or is this someone who seems so unhinged that they do actually want to hurt my family? So that's part of it. They did do that as well. They looked into the letters, they looked at the language that was used and there were a couple. So that's part of it. They did do that as well. They looked into the letters. They looked at the language that was used. And there were a couple of things that

seemed to stick out. Okay. May I make a prediction? Yeah. It's someone who doesn't actually want to hurt the family. They're just trying to be as creepy as possible. I don't know. Oh, okay. It doesn't go into that. Oh, okay. Okay. What they found was that there were what they called old fashioned tics in the letter. So old-fashioned wording. Like a 90-year-old. Like a 90-year-old. Like some salutations that were used. Seemed very old-timey.

It was not current language. Did she call him a boob? She called him a boob. That's right. The sentences were double-spaced. Yeah, because, uh-huh. Uh-huh. And the. Yeah, because. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

And the flow of the prose, I'll say, made them think that the person who had written this was a voracious reader. Okay. But that was it. That's a lot to me. It is. I think it is a lot, too. But where do you go with that? You go next door to the 90-year-old woman and you say, knock it off, Peg.

Damn it, Peg. Yeah, where's the Narc? Narc is the best. He is the best. He can kill impression. Damn it, Bobby. Bobby. Propane and propane accessories but the broadest says we're convinced it was the langfords the next door neighbors they were like

this is who it is and we know it and so they kept like talking to the police about talking to the police about it and so the police kind of changed their stance on, you know, keeping everything a secret and not telling anyone. They said, maybe you should prod them a little bit. Send them a letter telling them that you're planning to tear the house down. And you're letting them know as a neighbor that there's going to be a bunch of construction. See what kind of response you get from that. Like they thought that would be enough to like goad them into giving them a response like another letter would come oh okay but it didn't happen

huh the detectives brought a couple of the langfords in for more interviews and it got nowhere and at this point the langfords were pissed and they abby one of the sisters um or the daughter whatever she actually accused the police of harassing the family and told them they needed to leave them alone by the end of 2014 the investigation had completely stalled out there was nowhere for it to go um there was essentially no physical evidence to go on There was essentially no physical evidence to go on. There was no

digital trail. There were no fingerprints. There was nowhere to place anybody at the scene of a crime because everything was sent from an actual post office.

Was there any semen on the letter? You know, they did do a blacklight test and they were covered with semen. Oh, well.

That leads you right to the person this is why i ask did they do fingerprints or anything um probably did we'll actually find out in a little bit that they they actually did a dna test on like the it was a hundred percent that bitch wasn't it was it was it was i was saving that for but that information wasn't wasn't made um public to even the broadest at the time that they did it okay this wasn't found out later until late that wasn't found out until later yeah i don't understand i don't know why you said it four times like that. Later, guys.

Later. Everybody calm down. Basically, the police were like, we're out of options. This is it. Yeah. And sorry, Derek. We don't know what else to tell you. And you sound kind of like a crazy person because you're so obsessed with this. So please leave us alone.

Okay. Yep. Yep. And so Derek turned to his priest he took the letters to his priest and he asked him to blame to bless the house in hopes that they might then feel comfortable enough moving into it okay it didn't work oh uh they were so anxious about this whole situation all the renovations had been done. They'd installed, you know, a new alarm system. But the idea of actually moving into the house made them so anxious.

Derek, again, crazy obsessed. He's in his room with his maps and his yarn and whatever. He starts looking into how much it would cost to train German shepherds to keep in the yard. He posts an ad, like, on a website for military veterans asking, like, for people to just come, like, work out in the backyard every day. I swear I'm not a creepy guy. I just want a bunch of big shirtless dudes

to work out in my backyard. I still have the mood to... Peggy's going to love that. Yeah, no kidding. Sorry, if she's really not the one who did this then I'm being

really crappy to this old lady. Well, it's unsolved so who knows if it's fucking Peggy. I know. Meanwhile. What if

this was a long con and what she really wanted was for shirtless dudes to work out in her neighbor's backyard? Maybe. She's like, I know how to do this we start with young blood um meanwhile the watcher was getting real antsy because nobody fucking moved into 657 boulevard oh did i creep them out and another letter came okay okay this one said 657 boulevard is turning

on me it is coming after me i don't understand why what spell did you cast on it it used to be my friend and now it is my enemy i am in charge of 657 bouvard. It is not in charge of me. I will fend off its bad things and wait for it to become good again. It will not punish me. I will rise again. I will be patient and wait for this to pass and for you to bring the young blood back to me. 657 Boulevard needs young blood. It needs you. Come back. Let the Youngblood let the Youngblood play again like you once did. Let the Youngblood sleep

in 657 Boulevard. Stop changing it and let it alone. Ugh. So at this point, they've sold their old house. They don't want to move into their new house. And so they move in with Maria's parents. And so now there's all these rumors going on because they've kept the information about these letters very private.

They've only told a handful of friends. And so people are starting to wonder why the fuck they haven't moved into the new house. All kinds of rumors are circulating. When people ask, all they say is that they're having legal issues. And so people are like, oh, are they getting divorced? Like, what's going on? It was having a huge toll on both Derek and Maria and their marriage. They were fighting constantly.

Finally, like one day, Maria went to like a regular doctor's visit. And the doctor asked her how she was. Like, just like, how are you? And she burst into tears. Yeah, yeah of course and so the doctor was like okay all right i'm gonna refer you to a therapist yeah yeah for sure she was diagnosed with ptsd of course yes of course you would be yes and so at this point they sat down derrick and maria sat down they're like we can't do this anymore we We have to sell the house. Yeah.

It's not worth it. This is ruining our lives. Yeah. And it's supposed to be our dream home. Yeah. And so they decided to sell it. They initially listed it over above what they had paid for it, over above.

Over above and beyond what they paid for it. Because they'd done those renovations. Right. Here's the problem, though. Rumors were a swirling about this house. Yep. This is a very well-to-do, very gossipy neighborhood. Sure.

Everybody wanted to know what the fuck was going on at 657. And so things had been completely made up. There were talks about a sexual predator, a stalker. There were all kinds of rumors going on about the house. And there was a moral dilemma that the Brattises were having. Yeah. Do you disclose the reason that you're selling this house yeah and they felt like they had to yeah their realtor actually tried to talk them out of it i'm sure i'm sure they were

like it's not the right thing to do we have to tell them and so what they did is they included a partial like in the seller's disclosure like a little blurb about it and then once someone got to the point where they were like a serious contender to buy it then they would show them the letters yeah but nobody made it that far like once they heard the little blurb they're like yeah i don't think so they did get a couple of offers but they were well below of course yeah and at that point they just weren't willing to take the hit. Like, they never even got to live in this house. Yeah.

And there was nothing wrong with the house itself. Yeah. Yeah. Besides the bodies that were stuffed into the walls, apparently. Apparently. And so the agent, like, this kind of went on for a while. And the agent was like, you've got to pull that part from the seller's disclosure. The Broaddus's like waited and they were like, I don't know how you could live through what we have lived through and think we'll just brush this off on somebody else.

Because I'm sure they felt that the Woods had not disclosed critical information to them. Exactly. Because there's no way. I'm sure they felt that the Woods had not disclosed critical information to them. Exactly. Because there's no way, I'm sorry, there's no way they lived in that house for 23 years and got one letter. No way. Very good point, Kristen. So at this point, they're fucked. Yeah. They've got this house.

They don't know how to get out from under it. And they start thinking about it. know how to get out from under it and they start thinking about it and they're like what would we have done when we went to buy this house if the seller had said hey just so you know you know these creepy fucking letters come every so often and we leave the door unlocked blah blah Yes, yes. And so they thought that there was no way that the Woods were telling the truth, that they'd only received one letter. Yeah, absolutely. And even if they were, they had owed it to them to tell them about that single letter. And so Derek and Maria, they looked at each other and they said let's go to court yeah but how do you prove yeah and so in june of 2015 one year after buying 657 boulevard where they still

have not moved into the fucking house yep they filed a legal complaint against the woods is saying that they should have disclosed the letter or any other letters that they received. Just like they had disclosed the other weird facts about the house. Sometimes the basement floods, you know, whatever. Like, they felt that they owed that to them legally. So, they talked to their lawyer about this as they did it. They wanted to keep this quiet because they're still trying to sell this house. This situation just sucks.

It just sucks. And their lawyer was like, yeah, you know, there's a chance that like a small legal newswire might, you know, pick this up and run like a little blurb about, you know, a weird disclosure. This lawyer doesn't know a good story when they hear one. No, no. Because these letters were included in the legal action yeah these letters are crazy they're creepy as fuck yeah and so a local reporter uncovered it like looking just through like the regular like absolutely whatever legal filings you guys know the regular whatever regular whatever's found the complaint read wrote one hell of a story read the snippets of the threats and then

was like holy shit this is a story here and it went fucking viral of course it did news trucks descended on the neighborhood oh my a reporter set up a lawn chair on the lawn and started doing a 24-hour watch. Pig. Yep. It was, they got, the Broaddus's were completely overwhelmed by this. They had no idea that this is what would happen. This poor family, my God. They got more than 300 media requests for interviews.

Yeah. And they decided, after speaking to a crisis management consultant, these people were trying their best to do everything they could to, like, diffuse this situation. They decided to not speak to any of them. They turned down every request. Probably for the best, yeah. I agree. The goal at the end of the day was to protect their children. Yeah.

But, uh. Excuse me, you mean the young blood. day was to protect their children. Yeah. But. Excuse me. You mean the young blood. The young blood. Excuse me. That's London's new name. The young blood. You brought the young blood.

Oh, no. The podcast needed young blood. That's so terrifying. What? That's not weird. But all of this publicity stirred up all kinds of interest in this mystery about the Watcher. And everyone had opinions about how the Broaddus' had handled the situation and how the police had handled the situation. Many of the people in the neighborhood were surprised to learn about the case.

I'm sure they were. They didn't know anything about it and the police came out and made this statement saying that they'd done this thorough investigation and ruled that there was you know not enough information to go on and several of the people living in the neighborhood came forward and were like um okay we live like three houses down from paratus the police never fucking talked to us how thorough could this investigation have been yeah it wasn't thorough which on the one hand i mean i don't know what else they've got on their plate yeah you know you got a couple murder investigations okay go do that because this is clearly just a very old bored woman so several concerned citizens wrote a letter into the local paper talking about their concerns about how this must not have been that thorough of an investigation.

And if this creep is living in our neighborhood, like, let's get to the bottom of it. Right. And so the police opened the case back up and they put their most seasoned detective, this guy, Baron Chambliss. That's the wealthiest name I've ever heard. Baron Chambliss? Baron Chambliss. They put him on the case. And as he looked into it, he discovered, and this is what I mentioned, something surprising.

They had actually done DNA analysis on the letters. And they'd pulled a DNA sample. Mm-hmm. And they'd determined that that DNA belonged to a woman. Okay. But that was it. That was all they knew. What do you mean that's all they knew?

They didn't have a profile to match it. Well, did they go to Peg? Come on! So this Baron Chambliss was like, okay, I'm looking at Abby Langford. You know, so that's Peg's daughter. Right. She was a real estate agent was it possible that she

was upset about missing out on the commission on the sale she hadn't been the one to do the sale even though she'd lived right next door um maybe that was it close but no cigar baron and so in addition to being a real estate agent she also worked at the local lord and taylor which is like a fancy clothing store you can see how fancy i am brandy you know this skirt's from costco so baron chambliss calls up the security guard that works at lord and taylor and he arranges for him to watch abby langford when she throws away her water bottle for the security guard to grab it so that works at Lord & Taylor. And he arranges for him to watch Abby Langford when she throws away her water bottle

for the security guard to grab it so he can get a little DNA profile off of it. He does that. Doesn't match. I bet it was a real close match, though. Almost. Doesn't say. You put that in 23 and Bean,

you're going to find a couple hits there. So, Ben Chambliss is looking into this case. Okay. Yeah. I'm just saying, in a story that's gone viral, you're trying to show, oh, we're doing everything. Wouldn't you make a big show of going all around that neighborhood asking for voluntary DNA samples? Yes. You don't necessarily have to test every single one of them, All around that neighborhood. Fuck yes. Asking for voluntary DNA samples.

Yes. You don't necessarily have to test every single one of them, but wouldn't that be what you'd do? Yeah. Barron, I don't mean to tell you how to do your job, but take off the smoking jacket. You know. You know he's wearing a smoking jacket. Put that pipe in your pocket. So, a few days go by after Barron Chambliss has been assigned to this case and all of a sudden he reaches out to the broadest and said they've cleared the langford's as suspects how would you

exactly and he won't go into details and he won't give them any more information and the broadest is we're like what how can that be so what they think happened they had recently talked to the investigators prosecutors whatever and said that they were planning to file a civil suit against the langfords um you don't have enough they believed it was them well you can't just sue someone because you think it was them. I completely agree. Yeah. But they believe that once they told them that that's the direction they were going to move in, the police told them that they'd cleared them without any more information to keep this story from continuing to blow up.

They wanted to avoid the negative publicity of that. Yeah. Although a civil suit would not have been able to go anywhere. There's no information you can't just sue somebody because you think they live next door to you right but it could put more pressure on the police department absolutely so the police are like you know that's it so we got to go on sorry we had we got baron to look into it for you our most seasoned detective. Yeah.

And so the Broadduses were like, fuck this. We are opening our own investigation again. Here comes Derek. He dusts off all his charts and maps and puts up new red string. And they do something similar to what you had recommended. Okay. So now the word's out on these letters, right? Yep. So they go door to door through the neighborhood with the envelope, which is the only portion

that has handwriting on it. The letter was typewritten. And so they go door to door and ask to compare the writing to people's Christmas cards that they have received. Wow. To see if anybody has received anything that looks like it has similar handwriting on it. It didn't go anywhere, though. Yeah.

They hired this guy who lived in the neighborhood who was, like, the CEO of some security firm. They hired him to look into, like, handwriting samples. Yeah, that's all bullshit. And then to go, like handwriting samples. Yeah, that's all bullshit. And then to go like through online forums. They hired this other guy who was like a forensic linguist. And he went through like a bunch of like neighborhood like internet forums to see if he could find anybody that spoke in a similar tone.

Peg's not on those forums. No, because she's 90. Peg's on the typewriter. That's exactly right. And he didn't find anything. I'm very sorry, Peg, if you didn't actually do this. But there's no way Peg is. Peg's probably dead by now.

Peg's probably dead. Peg's not listening to a podcast. Peg's definitely not listening to this podcast. Certainly not this nonsense. So this is consuming every part of Derek's life. Oh, yeah. He's forgotten he has kids. Mm-hmm. consuming every part of Derek's life. Oh, yeah. He's forgotten he has kids. Yes. But in the town of Westfield, this has just become kind of an urban legend. Oh, yeah. The house is like, you

know, a house that kids dare them to run up to on Halloween. Like, yeah, but it has ruined their lives. Yeah. And then, you know, this is like something that rumors are still going on. What do you think really was going on with the watcher? What do you think was that? And so one of the rumors that kind of takes hold is that maybe this was all a con. Maybe the Broaddus' had sent themselves the letters. Oh, give me a break. This is how the theory went.

Okay. So the Broaddus' had bought this house and then immediately had suffered buyer's remorse. themselves the letters give me a break this is how the theory went okay so the broadices had bought this house and then immediately had suffered buyer's remorse they realized they couldn't afford it whatever or perhaps perhaps that wasn't it and they were trying to like cook up some kind of insurance fraud no there's so many easier okay maybe they were angling for a movie deal no there are easier ways to do all of that but what wait until i give you this bit of information kristin this is all stupid wait wait okay this is this was what the locals okay thought really backed this theory up okay they liked watching movies in 10 years uh-huh the brattises had gone from a 315 000 house to a 770 000 house to now a 1.3

million dollar house how do you explain that kristin i mean they're making more money their families i mean that's what that's the big theory that is so stupid and i'm sorry buyer's remorse so they send themselves the creepiest letters that have ever been written. Yeah, I don't think so. None of the theories really made any sense. And Derek, when he heard about these, he was pretty pissed. He's interviewed in this article and he says, Excuse me, how does someone go from a $300,000 house to a $1.3 million house in 10 years?

It's fucking America. I'm a white guy in America. Oh, my God. Oh, geez. Yeah. Suddenly, this whole thing was not just consuming their lives. Now they were outcasts from Westfield. Like, people were talking about.

Well, that's not fair. It isn't fair. The kids were being teased at school, like, by people. Oh, it was bad. It was really bad. What the fuck? And so Derek was like, let's just leave Westfield. Let's buy a house somewhere else.

Let's be done. And Maria's like, no, I'm not uprooting my kids because of this. By this time, they bought a different house, like, in that same area. God, this poor family. So they had to borrow money from a family member to be able to buy that house. And then they bought that house through an LLC so that they would not be listed as owners on it. Yeah, because they don't want their names. Yes.

They don't want to get new letters at this address. Yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, they've still got to figure out what the fuck to do with 657 Boulevard. The world's creepiest Airbnb. No shit.

So, their lawsuit was working its way through the system. They didn't have high hopes for it. They knew that it would not likely,

it wasn't likely to go their way, but they had to do something. And so, in the spring of 2016 they put the house back on the market before they did that they looked into a couple of options like renting the house like to the va or to this company that rents but runs like halfway homes um wow yeah and they just decided that's probably not going to work.

And so they decided to put the house back on the market. Now the house was kind of well known and maybe that would garner some interest. Maybe some creepy weirdos with some money would come forward like a Brandy for instance. Exactly. And so they. Brandy, would you want this house? Oh, I'd fucking live in that house. Yeah.

Would you be disappointed if you didn't receive a letter? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. You freaking weirdo. Yeah. So they've lowered the price on it and they get some interest. This guy, like they do the same thing where they have the little bit of disclosure. You can see the letters once you've moved through and put in an official offer or whatever.

And so this guy from Staten Island like is like fuck yeah i don't care about some creepy ass house like some creepy ass letters i'm gonna get a great deal on this house and so he puts in the offer he gets the letters he reads the letters they never hear from him again he withdraws the offer and backs out did he just want to read the letter i don't know maybe they scared him enough that he wasn't he like his tough guy thing was like oh fuck maybe i don't want to live here yeah i thought i was a bob moss guess not yeah exactly bronises were like at the end of the rope they're like how do we get out from this house like they have just spent so much money at this point because they're i know because they're also doing the legal fees yes it's just you talk about a money pit yes they are hemorrhaging money and so their real estate

lawyer was like okay how about this idea what if you sold the lot to a real estate developer they could split the lot into two two different lots and build two houses on it, you could get probably a million dollars for that, which would still be a loss to them. But at this point, it's more than anybody is willing to pay for the house. They can't sell the house. The funny thing to me is if this is a neighbor who's doing that, boy, talk about a way to stick it to the neighbor. Oh, yeah.

We're going to bulldoze this big, beautiful house and you're gonna get two smaller ones of lesser value and your property values are gonna go down yeah exactly so small problem though while this was like the largest lot in the neighborhood it wasn't quite big enough for two lots okay like city code mandates that the lots have to be 70 feet and by splitting this one would be like 67.4 feet and one would be 67.6 feet and so they had to request like a rezoning yeah through the city planner which required like this huge city planning board meeting whatever it was a no-no zone it was a no so they go to this planning meeting um more than a hundred residents show up to protest this fucking thing good lord the broadest get up there they've got like uh plans drawn up they have like

shown where the lots would be they show other lots in the neighborhood that don't meet the 70-foot requirement. Doesn't matter, does it? Nope. The hearing lasted for four hours. Oh, God. And at the end, their request was denied. They couldn't split the lot into two.

Yeah. In these situations it all comes down to does anyone care yeah and with those other lots probably no one cared right no one said anything now they've got a hundred people showing up at this exactly exactly um so the broadest has tried to appeal this decision through like the legal system. This poor couple. Yes. I want to hug them. I know. And a New Jersey judge said that they didn't have the right to appeal it and declined their motion.

They were completely distraught by this point. They're like, what the fuck do we do? We have to stop the financial bleeding. Yeah. The kids can't go to college anymore. Yeah. We have to vacation in Branson. Yeah. The kids can't go to college anymore. Yeah. We have to vacation in Branson, Missouri now. No kidding.

You said that with genuine sympathy. I mean, yeah. They're not going to the Catskills. Nope. Fuck Martha's Vineyard. That's right. Branson Moe. That's exactly right.

Fuck Martha's Vineyard. That's right. Branson Moe. That's exactly right. Finally, they decided they'd just try and rent it out themselves. See if they could get someone in there. Does the neighborhood allow that? Apparently. Okay.

Or apparently there was not a good way for the neighborhood to be able to fight that because they were actually able to do that. They were able to rent the home to to a family that had you know a couple kids and a couple dogs um but the renters worked a clock they had grown they were adult children like you know not small children um but they worked a clause into the lease that if a letter came while they were there they would have to be let out of the lease okay two weeks go by and a letter fucking comes to the renters no um derrick just happened to like be there he happened to come to the house to deal with some squirrels that were like doing something in the attic i guess writing

letters yeah writing letters yeah and the renter hands him an envelope and it says violent winds and bitter cold oh god to the vile and spiteful derrick and his wench of a wife maria it was dated february 13th which was um a notable day because it was the day that the broadest were deposed in their lawsuit against the woods's okay this is what it said you wonder who the watcher is turn around idiots oh maybe you even spoke to me one of the so-called neighbors who has no idea who the watcher could be or maybe you do know and you are too scared to tell anyone good move this letter seemed to have a different tone than the other letters. It was like much more angry.

It's more insulting than creepy. Yes, and it seemed to be, the other ones had been kind of poetic and like had been, you know, written in a certain tone. This one seemed very different. Maybe workshopped a little. Yes, exactly.

They mentioned like the media coverage. It said, I walked by the news trucks when they took over my neighborhood and mocked me I watched as you watch from the dark house and attempted to find me telescopes and binoculars are wonderful inventions 657 boulevard has survived your attempted assault and stood strong with its armies of supporters barricading its gates

my soldiers of the boulevard followed my orders to a tee they carried out their mission and saved the soul of 657 boulevard with my orders all hail the watcher oh my god the letter went on to mention the renter and then talked about how like they'd noticed that security cameras had been installed around the house. And then it went on to talk about revenge and how revenge could come in many forms. Maybe a car accident. Maybe a fire. Maybe something as simple as a mild illness that never seems to go away but makes you feel sick day after day after day maybe a mysterious death of a pet oh loved ones suddenly die planes and cars and bicycles crash

bones break oh my god yeah um der again, took this letter to the police. They kind of pulled up that neighborhood map and they put out this like they traced this perimeter on it. Essentially like a 300 yard perimeter. And and said that they believed that the watcher must live somewhere in there. Well, no shit. Yeah. And Derek drew one like a little like he he was like no he drew like a much tighter circle and he's like it's one of these 10 houses yeah it's one of these 10 houses

yes and you can't help me they continued to press the case but the police told them there was nothing they could do the watcher could be anyone we believe the litter writer is located in North America. Are they kidding with that crap? No kidding. We believe it's someone in the neighborhood. Uh-huh. No shit.

Yeah. Somehow, over time, the Broaddus' found a way to no longer live in constant fear that the Watcher could be, you know, ready to strike at any time you know the it's the mild illness thing that creeps me out because it makes you paranoid about everything yeah about big things happening and about just like hmm my stomach feels a little weird right now yeah is it that i'm just having a weird stomach thing or is the neighbor slowly poisoning me somehow? Right, exactly. So they were still essentially living in this neighborhood.

So they were having run-ins with people who knew about this constantly. At one time, Maria said that she was at the YMCA. Yeah, the wench of a wife, Maria. She was at, I think that was the alternate version of the song in West Side Story. Look at you, you're so proud of that joke. So at one point, she's like at the gym taking a spin class. And the head of the planning board who had turned down the request to turn that lot into, you know, two lots was there.

And she went up to him afterwards and he said and she said, you hurt my family and you continue to hurt my family every day. OK, well. um so i i yeah i don't think that that guy personally did it but the planning board following their request had approved several other requests that made bigger exceptions than the exception of course yeah and it's because a hundred people showed up yes yes yeah as a reporter i've been punished by having to go to those stupid meetings. They're terrible. No one ever shows up. That's when the real shit happens.

But when people suddenly show up, they do whatever the crowd does. Once. Absolutely. The Broaddus' lawsuit against the Woodses was ultimately dismissed. Yeah. They did finally sell the house in August of 2019 at a loss of $400,000. They sold it for like $900,000. They lost way more than that.

Oh, yeah. And the Watcher has never been cut. Have there been any more letters? No, I don't believe so. Hmm. That's the story of the Watcher. that may be my favorite case you've ever done it's a good one i love it i love it it's a real estate one it's creepy as hell um yeah i think old woman yeah it's funny because that was your take immediately and i'm like she's

gonna love it when she finds out there's a 90-year-old lady living next door. Yeah. It's something about kind of how poetic the letters are. Absolutely. living in multiple neighborhoods is that, um, the old people who have lived in a neighborhood for a long time, sometimes feel like sometimes feel like they're entitled to tell you what to do with your house because you're the new young people.

That's true. Um, yeah. Yeah. I, um, I don't know. I, I think your theory is great i think it's very very possible okay let's start a gofundme to go look into this um what do you think of did the woods receive other letters yeah i think it's very likely that they had

received other letters i could see them not receiving them yeah i could see it being okay obviously someone has way too much time on their hands they're very bored they want to be creepy and a place near them goes up for sale they feel like they have no control over that and they don't have any control over that and so that triggers something in them yeah um i left out a little bit where um i don't know a year or two after all this happened um when all the rumors were swirling about the Broadduses, a bunch of people in the neighborhood got letters defending the Broadduses and saying, like,

none of this is true, like, they didn't do any of this, and it was signed a friend of the Broadduses. Uh-huh. It was Derek who sent them out. Oh, God. Oh, Derek, you've become the thing you hate the most. Really? Yeah. Oh, Derek. He became too obsessed with the case,

obviously. Yeah, he was in too deep. It did. It overtook his life. Spending too much time in his foxhole with his maps and his red yarn. How has this not become a movie? Oh, I'm so glad you said that. So Netflix just bought the rights to it

and is developing a movie. Okay, I love it. I love it. So, you know, Neve, the catfish guy? I know him very well. His brother, who made the catfish movie, has signed on to direct. Oh, I don't love it.

He did one of the paranormal activities. That's pretty good. Okay. It's still early. He could, the project could change between now and then. Kristen, no, don't get too upset. What if I started writing him creepy letters to get him off of the project? I've become quite attached to this story.

So, you know, a lot of people, when the rumors were flying that the Broaddus' did this themselves, like to try and get a movie deal or whatever. So the biggest point of contention against that, the biggest thing that the Broaddus' said is that Lifetime came to them and wanted to make a movie and they said no. Because they were holding out for a better network. No, they just didn't want to do it. Like they were trying to still keep it quiet. Well, Lifetime made a movie anyway called The Watcher.

And the Rosses sent them a cease and desist. Right. But Lifetime won the argument, basically, because they had a... Yeah, because they put it out into the public themselves. Well, yeah. So they put, yes. And they cast the couple as a biracial couple, which they were not in real life. And they signed the letters The raven instead of the watcher

well it's so different it's completely different you change one person's race and you've changed the whole story that's exactly right um so they say when you're writing about someone in a book yeah like a novel and you're making it about them yeah but obviously you can get sued if it's too close to, you know, who the actual person is. The way you get out of being sued is by giving the character a really small penis, because

the guy would never come forward and be like, that's me! That's me! I'm the Golden State Killer. I've got a tiny peen. I loved it. Brandy, I loved it brandy i loved it welcome back oh that was so good yes thank you to ben and blue orchid for uh thank you it's orchid i don't think it's yeah thank you both that was so good so good i don't even want to go on to my case now.

I want to solve this thing. I know, right? I know I've talked about this on the podcast before, but we got an anonymous letter from a neighborhood, from a neighbor at our first house. Yeah. And I was always pretty sure it was the very old woman next door. So maybe I'm just prejudiced. Maybe you are.

Sorry, pig. Oh, man. Well, how do I... How do I... How do you follow that? Yeah, how do I follow that? How about you talk about Little House on the Prairie? Okay, I'm going to talk about the time

that Laura Ingalls was murdered. Sorry sorry i have to spice this up somehow if i have to make up a story i will okay big thank you to fierce mama llama for suggesting this case in the discord also uh shout out to wikipedia for giving me all that sweet, sweet background info. You guys, I did some weird hand gestures. It was awkward. Creeped Brandy out. Yeah. Also, thank you to the LA Times and the New York Times for their coverage of this lawsuit.

Brandy, I've got a question for you. Okay. Have you ever heard of an author named Laura Ingalls Wilder? I'm familiar. Mm-hmm. Of course you have. Because you grew up in the great state of Kansas. That's exactly right.

And in Kansas, elementary school children are required to read Little House on the Prairie. Or at least we were. Do you think they still do that? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. When did you read this stuff? Fourth grade? Yeah, fourth grade.

Yeah. Good job. Yeah, fourth grade was the year, like, you learned all about Kansas. Yeah. So, gosh, that was a thrilling year for all of us. Oh, how we loved it. Did you like Little House on the Prairie the series at all yeah i think so i didn't like the books you mean well what do you mean like there's a show little house on the

prairie kristin well yeah in the 70s i never watched it that's what i was going to say yeah i never watched i think i liked the books i read them i read like four of them okay yeah i must have liked him i mean i read him too but i have no recollection of them like at all though do you know the one thing i remember from them the bear no i remember that in one book a character says the only good indian is a dead indian yes wow that come becomes relevant in a tidbit at the end of this whole thing. But that is the only thing I remember. I don't remember anything.

Okay. So let's talk about the beloved author of the Little House on the Prairie series, Laura Ingalls Wilder. So Laura was born in 1867 in Pepin, Wisconsin. But when she was just two years old, Ma and Pa moved to what is now Independence, Kansas, which these days boasts a population of nearly 9,000 people. I was going to say, not to be confused with Independence, Missouri. Where you can get all your meth. You tell me what they're more well-known for.

That's 100% what they're known for. Then, a few years later, they moved back to Wisconsin, and blah, blah, blah. Move, move, move. Kids, kids, kids. Prairies, prairies, prairies. Fast forward. I don't find her childhood nearly as fascinating as she did. Fast forward.

It's true. But she lived in a little house on the prairie, Kristen. That's all you need to know. In addition to some racist shit. Fast forward to 1885. She's 20. She's actually 18. I forgot what year she was 1860 something and she marries 28 year old almanzo wilder in desmet south dakota now you spell that B-E-S-M-E-T. De Smet? Sure. All right.

She called him Manly, and he called her Bessie because he had a sister named Laura, and I guess he didn't like things to be weird. I'm sorry. Hold on. She didn't just describe him as Manly? That's what she called him? It was a nickname. That's not a nickname!

You called David Studmuffin. I don't, actually. What do you call him? It was a nickname. That's not a nickname. You call David Studmuffin. I don't, actually. What do you call him? I call him Love. Do you really? Yeah. Oh. Yeah.

I call Norm Love. I know. It's not like I... Wait, because you're obsessed with me? Yeah, because I want to wear a skin suit of you. No. No, but that's how London became called Little Love. Because David and I call each other Love.

And then, so when I was pregnant with her, he'd say, hi, Love. Hi, Little Love. Okay, we're all about to throw up. All right. It's super cute. And Little Love has stuck. Yeah. It will continue to stick.

It will. She'll be 90 years old writing creepy letters to her neighbor. And so I just called you love so yeah he she calls him manly he calls her bessie a year later they had a daughter named rose and then this poor couple had if it was in a novel you'd'd be like, this can't happen to one couple. This is, this is cruel. This would never happen in real life. So get this. Almanzo got diphtheria,

which left him partially paralyzed. Which part? I think it was the bottom part. And he eventually was able to walk again, but he had to use a cane for the rest of his life. My God, Brandy, the insensitivity.

It was a dog. If Almanzo was alive today, he'd strike you with his cane, and you would deserve it. You hear people being paralyzed from the waist up. You hear people being paralyzed from the waist up. Why is that? Brandy I'm sorry Oh my god I'm sorry So anyway poor Almanzo was like...

Wait, what's his name? Almanzo. Poor Almanzo was partially paralyzed, which is hilarious to you, apparently. My god. Then somehow their barn caught fire. Oh, does that amuse you too? Which sucked because it was their barn, Brandy,

and because it was full of their hay and grain jesus christ these are real people real cases real people then they had a son but he died when he was just because i was looking at you like, you better not laugh. And he died when he was how old? 12 days, Brandy. Oh, that's very sad. Yeah, it is.

And then little Rose accidentally set that house on fire. Oh, God. And the whole thing burned to the ground. Oh, my gosh. There was also a severe drought. Goodness Christ. I'm sorry. We've got the giggles. We don't think this is funny. It's just we've got

the giggles. The drought lasted several years. So they couldn't make a living. And because of their living conditions, they got super sick. Sorry. Life sucked, you'll be happy to know. They moved around a bit, and eventually in 1894, they moved to Mansfield, Missouri. Been there?

Heard of it? No, I've never heard of it. Yeah, today it is home to a whopping 1,255 people. Oh. What's it by? I don't think it's by much. Let me Google that real quick. Okay, so, I mean, it's truly not near much it's like pretty far east of springfield all right we could go yeah like we could get some cheese on the way

probably cheese you probably go through osceola to get there like i want to be trapped in a car with four people and a bunch of cheese that we're eating. They moved to Mansfield. Times were hard, but they eventually got better. They moved into a log cabin with no windows. Oh, gosh. That sounds so grim. They planted apple trees, and it only took seven years for those trees to bear fruit. Almanzo sold firewood in town for like 50 cents a bundle or whatever, which I didn't even adjust for inflation.

But that doesn't sound like much. Oh, God. Got a boob hair. Got a boob hair? You ever get a hair down in the old block? You get a boob hair all the time. I've never had a boob hair. I'm convinced that my hair falls out at a more rapid rate than other people. I also touch my hair a lot.

You have a ton of hair, so you can stand to lose some. Wow. You could have said you have such beautiful, thick, wonderful, luscious hair. Too late. It's too late to apologize. It's too late. Okay.'s too late okay i'm sorry brandy i won't continue singing i'm gonna move on with the story damn it one time almanzo's parents came to visit them and they were like hey you guys look like you could use some help here's the deed to the rental

property we own in mansfield missouri which i'd kind of be like, damn, we've been living in this log cabin with no windows. You guys have rental property in town? Oh my gosh. Everything was turning up millhouse. Yes. They kept their farm on the outskirts of town, and over time, they came to own almost 200 acres. Wow.

Eventually, they sold the home that Almanzo's parents gave them and took that money that they made off of the house to build a real cute farmhouse on their big old chunk of property just outside of town. Excellent. It's actually really cute and it's still standing today. Oh, it is? Mm-hmm. You can visit it. Oh. You can tour it.

Should we go? Yes! Let's go! Well, we can't because of COVID, which is a hoax by the media. Shut up! What if someone believes me?

Someone's gonna be like, I knew it! Man, that person has sat through a lot of crap here to hear that. So, to sum it up, over the course of 20 years, they've gone from a log cabin with no windows and a crappy patch of land. And by crappy, I mean, it's like just it sounds beautiful.

Just trees, trees, trees and rocks. Yeah. But, you know, if you're trying to farm. That's bad. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. a farm that's bad bad bad bad bad bad to having a poultry slash dairy slash fruit farm and living in a 10 room farmhouse with a whole mess of windows they put windows in their windows just because they missed windows they're like hey you go look out that window i'll look out this window oh there's some creepy old lady looking in at me

laura and almanzo knew their shit, and people respected them for it. They were kind of authorities on how to run a farm. So Laura, in particular, was like a great speaker, so she joined a bunch of clubs, and she spoke about, like, how to be a kick-ass farmer. Yeah. That was the title of her speech. She was very spicy. Yes.

So in 1911, a publication called the Missouri Ruralist was like, yo, Laura. Say that three times fast. I can't. How would you like to become a columnist slash editor for our lovely publication? Publication. Publication. And she said, sure. Turns out, Laura

was awesome at writing columns. People loved them. Her column was called As a Farm Woman Thinks. Oh. And I'm sure it was fascinating. Fell asleep while you were

It sounds terrible. It sounds like something my grandpa would have loved. Yeah. My grandpa Shepard was so into that shit. Well, they lived on a farm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it all adds up.

Oh, my grandpa Shepard. New York City stockbroker. No. He grew up on a farm in Missouri. Years went by and Laura got better and better at writing. Meanwhile, her daughter Rose is like the most fascinating woman you haven't read about. Rose, do you know anything about? No, no, neither did I.

I just thought she was like daughter of Laura Ingalls Wilder. No, she's like legit. She's not the gaming historian's wife? How dare you? How dare you? You know what you are? What? The gaming historian's wife's friend.

Oh, no! Yeah, it doesn't get lower than that, lady. You're right. So, I'd just like to point out that I'm also the gaming historian's friend. Okay, but when people describe you, you don't get to decide how people describe you. Let me tell you something. You're right. You'll be the wife's friend.

You're right. All right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Although you are Norman's friend, and you stood up for him with his little peanut M&M's scandal. and you stood up for him with his little peanut M&M's scandal. I mean, that's the worst thing you could do to Norm in his own house. Okay, you guys, Norman complains at length that we don't have enough good snacks in the house.

And then you paraded peanuts in front of him. Peanut M&Ms. Okay, I put them in a jar and it turns out they're impossible to get out of it. It is really hard to get them out of there.

It's kind of like a slow feeder. But like, Brandy is way too sympathetic to Norm when he complains about this. As if he isn't a grown man who can go buy snacks himself.

Anyway. Anyway. so rose was super smart and she graduated at the top of her class of seven people oh good so there she is super smart but she was a woman which in the early 1900s was a little like being a giraffe who's really good at poker. No one even invites the giraffe to play poker, so he doesn't even know how good he is at poker. You know? That's an old saying. Yeah, I don't think it is. It is.

Totally. I was stumped. I was trying to come up with some metaphor. That's what I got. The fish in the bicycle? Isn't that the metaphor? That's been done. This is the new one that's taking over.

I was driving the poker party. So Rose graduates high school, but her parents can't afford to send her to college. And she was not impressed by the opportunities afforded to women in Mansfield, Missouri. I'm sure. So she's like, fuck this. I'm moving to Sedalia, Missouri. And then she was like, fuck this. I'm moving to Kansas City, Missouri.

And I'm going to work as a telegrapher at the Midland Hotel. Then she was like, fuck this. That's all around? I don't think so. Midland Hotel. So I Googled it. And you can see cool pictures. Is it just the midland now no surely not concert venue right and surely they didn't like midland hotel you'll see some sweet yeah it's pretty so then she was like fuck this i'm moving to indiana and then she was

like fuck this i'm moving to san francisco then she was like, fuck this, I'm moving to San Francisco. She kept being a telegrapher everywhere. And eventually in San Francisco, she married a man named Claire, which I did not know that men were named Claire. So I was at first very excited and then like, oh, just a dude. Okay. So here's the fast forwarded version of the next few years. They moved all over the place.

Rose got pregnant. The baby was born stillborn. She had surgery in Kansas City, and as a result, she was unable to have more children. She and her husband worked together a bit on different advertising projects, and Brandy made a big noise getting her drink. Brandy, you will be let go. You will be replaced by DP in a second. He's chomping at the bit.

He certainly is. But Rose was not intellectually stimulated. And marriage wasn't as great as she thought it would be. So even though she wrote these really happy, sunny letters to her parents, she was secretly struggling with depression and at one point attempted suicide. This whole time she had a chip on her shoulder about her lack of formal education. So she educated herself. She taught herself several languages, read every book under the sun, and at one point got what was supposed to be a short-lived job at the San Francisco Bulletin.

But here's the thing. Rose was such a good writer and editor that everyone there was like, hey, see, this broad can write. See? So she wrote, you know, back in the day they used to do like serialized fiction so she did like you know romantic you know steamy stuff bodices were ripped yeah on the weekly you know uh you know they ran in the paper she wrote books on henry ford charlie chaplin herbert hoover yada yada yada you get the idea vacuum guy typey type yes average president great vacuum guy so you get the idea rose was an awesome writer yeah but in 1918 the managing editor of the San Francisco Bulletin resigned, and she decided to quit, too.

So she became a freelance writer, and she was super successful. What are you licking? I'm not licking anything. Are you licking? You're licking something. My teeth. You're licking your teeth? And I'm supposed to just sit here and act like you're being a normal human while you...

I was just sitting here like this, running my tongue on the ridges of my teeth. You don't ever run your tongue on the ridges of your teeth? Not while someone is forced to watch me. I thought I was doing it, like, in the comfort of my own mouth. No. No. False. You left the trap door open, and I was getting a gander of the whole thing.

Listen, I'm the watcher. I saw some dude with his easel up in there. So she wrote for all these major publications like the Saturday Evening Post, Harper's, Good Housekeeping, you know, just the tops. And she became a best-selling novelist wow did you know this no i had no idea okay early on in my research and by that i mean wikipedia i found that there's like this marker from where she was born saying you know rose blah blah was born here and i thought wow you get a marker because you were born to a famous mom but no turns out she's legit yeah around this time she tells her

husband claire to f off and they get divorced which i mean yeah how rare was that right a short time later she became one of the highest paid women writers in America. Which probably meant like two cents. I don't know. That's a fun fact. That's where the term give your two cents came from. From being the highest paid woman writer in the 1920s. She's got two cents, see.

More than a bride should make see so even though she's like at the top of her game she still struggled with depression struggled with a ton of self-doubt um and evidently wasn't that great with money because she was just super generous with it. And, you know, I don't know. Around this time in 1924, when Rose, the super successful author of the family, goes to her mom, Laura, who was like a mildly successful regional columnist. And she was like, hey, mom, let's team up on a writing project. She was like, hey, mom, let's team up on a writing project. Let's work together on a couple of articles describing the interior of your farmhouse for Country Gentleman magazine.

Oh, my gosh. Can you believe that? That sounds terrible. That sounds awful. Awful. Yeah. So, you know, that was fascinating. I'm sure. If only we could get our hands on that.

Yeah, I wish. I'd have some good nighttime reading. Rose, you know what? I bet if we go to the house, they've got. It's there. Well, it would have to be. The only people who would want to read that thing is like in the house itself, right? All right.

So Rose was super famous and successful. Her parents were doing okay, but they relied on financial assistance from Rose. And so they were like, hey, you know, maybe. Oh, my God. They relied on financial assistance from Rose. You know how I heard that? How? They relied on financial assistance from Rose. I was like, heard that? How? They were light on financial assistance for Rose.

I was like, well, fuck it. Get their own money. What are they? Should I give them enough? Where are their bootstraps? But, you know, they got this idea, like maybe Laura tries to become a novelist with help from Rose and Rose's connections,

and all of a sudden life won't be quite so hard. Great idea, right? Yes. from rose and rose's connections and all of a sudden life won't be quite so hard great idea right yes well then the stock market crashed in 1929 and they were all but they lost basically everything holy shit rose too yeah oh yeah so they didn't lose the farm, but all the money they'd invested, I mean, it was bad. But there's nothing like hardship to get the creative juices a-flowing. And boy, did they flow. Boy, were they juicy. To make a long story, long, juicy story short, Laura Ingalls Wilder wrote a ton of books.

She published her first one, Little House in the Big Woods, in 1932 when she was 65 years old. Holy crap, right? Yeah, I've got some time. I was going to say, you've got plenty of time, Kristen. Why am I putting all this pressure on myself i'm still so young and beautiful this kicked the little house on the prairie you got a problem with your nose i'm gonna read to you from the notes you ready yeah this kicked the little house on the prairie series which was a series of books written for children.

What? This kicked off. I'm guessing. Yeah. They were loosely based on Laura's childhood in her pioneer family. Yeah. We heard about that already. But you didn't know it.

You'd forgotten all about it. And you needed to hear it again. Damn it. She received a lot of help from Rose. Maybe all the help from Rose. So some people think that Rose actually wrote the books. Yeah, it sounds like Rose did write the books. That would be my guess as well,

but it doesn't sound as good. And here's this story about my mom's life. So you sell it like Lauraura ingalls wilder herself wrote it so okay here's one thing rose gets all that money when laura kicks it anyway wow very rude very insensitive they're not gonna let you in the farmhouse lady they're gonna take you out back and shoot you so one thing i read said that Rose, you know, obviously struggled with confidence, struggled with writer's block a little bit. But she did a great job ghostwriting because, you know, that really does kind of take the pressure off. Yeah.

So, you know, maybe. But I think it's also possible that she and her mom collaborated on the books. Yeah. Stop. Collabor collaborate and listen laura's out with a brand new edition so you know who knows what the deal was but the bottom line was um the books became a huge success. Laura and Almanzo became rich. Filthy stinking? Filthy stinking rich.

Life was grand. Truckloads of fans would show up in Mansfield, Missouri to meet the famous Laura from Little House on the Prairie. That sounds terrible. I think she liked it. Oh, okay. Because, I mean, how many people really showed up? Truckloads.

I mean, but how often does the truck come by, right? Although they probably do expect to, like, sit and have a slice of pie with you. They probably do want to have a piece of pie with you. What would you do if truckloads of people showed up at your house to meet you, but they brought their own pie. Are they sharing the pie? Absolutely. And you have to make a decision. Is this person a creep who's poisoned the pie?

I mean, it looks like great pie. Yeah. And, you know, I don't know where the pie came from. You know, see, the other thing that this brings in is my fear of potlucks. Okay, I've got a question. And we can cut this so kyla mentioned yeah that she had tried to bring you a meal one time when after you first had london and you were like oh no that's okay that's okay we're good kyla told me that since

she's like you know what i remembered from listening to the podcast is brandy does not accept food when she hasn't seen someone's i don't don't have a fear of Kyla's kitchen. That's what I said. Not at all. I was like, no, with Brandy, you've got to be more forceful with it. You've got to be like, I've made you something. Could I drop it by? Yeah, no. Yeah. It was totally that I thought that was unnecessary for her to come all the way to my house to bring me something. I felt bad accepting it. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I told her. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yes. She had two damn kids of her own to be taken care of. She didn't have time to be running food to me. Oh, she would have neglected the kids.

She would have put Henry in charge of Alexandra. It would have been fine. It had nothing to do with it. I have no fear of Kyla's Kitchen. I'd eat it. I'd for sure eat out of Kyla's Kitchen. Anyone who was raised by Sherry Picks. Exactly.

They've got a decent enough kitchen. I mean, we can't live up to our mom's standard but you know still okay so laura and almanzo continued to live on their farm until their deaths almanzo died in 1942 at the age of 92 and laura died in 1956 at the age of 90 they were both buried at the mansfield cemeteryemetery. Can we go there? Yeah. Let's do it! I really do want to go. I'm itching to go on a trip. I know it's not allowed. I think that's the poison ivy, actually.

Do you see this poison ivy on my neck? I do see it. Yeah, we filmed the video and I was like, well, this is going to be embarrassing. Yet another video where I'm covered in poison ivy. Looking like a freak. video where i'm covered in poison ivy looking like a freak but people especially the people of mansfield weren't content with letting laura ingalls wilder's legacy die out so they immediately created a non-profit so that they could buy the wilder's house and make it into a museum to celebrate this famous literary giant yeah can you buy the books there i mean is there a gift shop that would seem like a real missed opportunity i books there? I mean, is there a gift shop? That would

seem like a real missed opportunity. I hope there's a gift shop. I love a gift shop. Do you love a museum gift shop? Yes. Do you know? What? My favorite gift shop I've ever been into was at a museum I didn't even get to go to because the admission was too high. What? My family, you know, we used to go on road trips all the time. Yeah. Like, every summer we'd take a vacation. But there was, you know, six of us. So that's.

Sure. That's a lot. So we stopped at the Biltmore. Oh. I wanted to go through it so bad. But it was, like, crazy expensive to go through. And so we just went through the gift shop. And the gift shop was amazing.

What'd they have? And I think that the part of it was, too, is that we were there late in the day. So, like, we would have had to pay a full price ticket and not get the full tour. I think that's what the deal was. Anyway, I don't know. All kinds of cool shit. I wanted to buy this Chinese stamp set, but I didn't buy it. How long ago was this?

I was probably 12. And you remember it to this day. Well, it was the summer after sixth grade. So how old would I have been? 12. Okay. Okay. And you remember it to this day. Well, it was the summer after sixth grade. So how old would I have been? Twelve. Okay. Okay. I remember when we went to the Titanic Museum.

Do you remember that gift shop? Yeah. Some of the stuff I thought was in a bit of poor taste. I tried to get... The survivor bracelets? Yes. Okay. At the Titanic Museum in Branson, Missouri, you can buy survivor bracelets.

What? What? Right? That doesn't seem right. I don't think it seems right. And you could also buy, didn't they have shot glasses that had like icebergs on them? Yeah. Yeah.

Also, and David didn't buy this for you, but I did my best. The heart of the ocean. It was $12.99, I believe. I wanted him to buy it for you. And you were like, I will not wear it. I would not have worn it. Whether you wanted it, whether you would wear it, was none of my concern. I wanted it in your possession.

What would you do? If I did like a stick figure drawing of you naked with the heart of the ocean. That's hilarious. Would you frame it? I would. Okay, great. All right. So where were we?

Gift shop. They have a museum. They've got a, we. So where were we? Gift shop. They have a museum. We're pretty sure there's a gift shop. There was just one problem. Rose didn't love the idea. She was like, I don't know if I really want my mom's legacy to be. Oh, I'm sorry. So she wanted her mom's legacy to be all about the books.

She was kind of afraid if it's about the house. It's, you know, just kind of weird. Anyway, she changed her mind and decided that a museum would actually keep people's attention on the books. Duh. I don't know why. Yeah. Anyway. Sorry, I got to lube up my lips here.

You do require a lot of lubing i know i know i gotta get greased up every half hour so so she helped the townspeople out she donated the money they needed to buy the house and she was like here's a bunch of my parents old shit you can fill up the museum to the brim and don't worry because i'll be sure to send you a check every year to help maintain the museum everything was great as the wilder's only child rose of course got a ton of stuff including the ownership of the little house literary estate it had all been laid out in laura's will which was clear as day rose gets the rights to the little house series oh yes but and this is a direct quote from laura's will at her death i direct that said copyrighted literary property and income from same be given to the laura ingalls library of mansfield missouri okay okay so yeah rose gets it until

she kicks it and then it goes to the library yep yep laura ingalls library got it is that another thing that exists is that the problem is that not what it's called it's called a museum no no it's okay they have they have the house oh and museum and then they also have this library okay i realized i kind of wrote that in a confusing way no i thought you were trying to like slip in some hints there i was looking for a hint where it didn't exist there was no slippage so it's all pretty clear yeah you already summed it up so i'll skip that part rose has the copyrights she continues living her life she gets super political she becomes one of the founders of the American Libertarian Movement.

She's like, you guys, race is a social construct and racism is bullshit. So cut it out. And then they all stop being racist. And that's why racism ended. Thank you, Rose. At some point, Rose became the adoptive grandmother slash mentor to this guy named Roger Lee McBride. Roger was the son of one of Rose's friends, and Rose and Roger were super close. They were both big time libertarians.

In fact, Roger would actually later run for president in 1976 as a libertarian, and he won. Yes. Everyone remembers that president. Everybody remembers that. Everyone remembers that, right? But that's jumping ahead. What you really need to know is that Roger and Rose were super close.

She wanted to leave him all kinds of stuff when she died. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Only it wasn't hers to leave. Hmm.

Well. Hmm. Or was it? Thank you for filling that in while I took a sip of my coffee. So Roger became Rose's attorney and her business manager. Oh, I don't like that. What? Can't you be multiple things? Friends slash lawyer slash business attorney.

Slash adopted grandson. Yeah, yeah. No, no. He's taking advantage of Rose. Wow. Trying to get his filthy paws on her silky drawers. Oh, my God. What's the next line?

Would you call that something with a net? Would you pull that crap with a net i never pull that crap with a net yes as for you so then in 1968 at the age of 81 rose died in her sleep and she was buried next to her parents in mansfield cemetery rose had named ro Roger as the executor of her will and her sole heir. And all the rights to Laura Ingalls Wilder's

literary works went to Roger McBride! Yep. Fuck the library. Yeah. See you guys. Oh my gosh gosh according to court papers later filed by the laura ingalls library roger mcbride and rose wilder lane weren't nearly as close as he would

have you believe the idea that he was rose's adopted grandson and guardian of the wilders estate was a myth was a myth perpetuated by him they said that after rose died roger gained control of the entire literary estate by renewing all the copyrights that were about to expire and putting them in his name. You know what that sounds like? What? Scam. Brandy's on to something, guys. He also applied for new copyrights for all of Laura's unpublished books, which, F that.

Brandy, if you find something on my pooter after I've kicked the bucket, and I haven't sent it out to a literary agent to try to get it published, it's because they don't want it to be published. Yeah. And get this. So he's he's got all the stuff now. Yeah. He co-created and co-produced the TV show that you mentioned.

Shut up. Little House on the Prairie, which ran from 74 to 83. Wow. That show was aired in more than 100 countries. But Roger didn't just make money off the TV show or the books he also made money off of cookbooks which no fucking cookbooks the little house on prairie cookbook yeah take an old apple off the ground and mix it with the carcass of a squirrel also friendship bracelets and calendars and you know all kinds of crap you could buy all kinds of gift shop stuff yeah see i don't have that stuff in the gift shop

at one point universal studios bought the rights to a little house on the prairie movie years went by i don't think that ever happened i don't think so either and if it did i gotta confess don't know that i'd be running out to see it. No. And I love movies and I see them often. No, you don't. I just realized that when I said that, it's like, well, of course you wouldn't see it. You don't see movies.

Years went by. Roger McBride was rolling in that sweet, sweet little house on the prairie doe. Isn't that a weird way to be rich? Off of little house on the prairie dough. Isn't that a weird way to be rich? Off of Little House on the Prairie? Then, in 1995, he died, leaving all of his assets to his daughter, Abigail McBride Allen. Meanwhile, the poor little Laura Ingalls Library

in Mansfield, Missouri, was not doing so hot. The library was located in an old medical clinic, which was made of concrete. The roof leaked everywhere. It was just all leaks. More leaks than roof, really. Hey, there's a dry spot right there. The heater didn't do anything,

but when it did turn on it would blast cold air so in the winter time the library employees would sit in the library wearing their winter coats they had foam insulation taped onto the windows and if that wasn't enough the the books kind of sucked. One library user told the LA Times, I went to look up something on raising milk cows, and I found one book on milk production. A scientific book from 1957. Geez-o-peat, I could go to a big city and find books on raising milk cows, but I can't find them here.

Wow. Geez-o-peat. books on raisin milk cows but i can't find them here geez oh pete i'm sorry but that la times reporter had to have creamed his jeans when i when he heard geez oh pete he's like the people of missouri are living up to my expectations so in the spring of 1999 a volunteer at the library was like you guys we have to do something we've got to raise some money for this shitty library so they did a big brainstorming session and this volunteer got the bright idea to just take a look-see at laura ingalls wilder's will yeah no one had bothered to look at it in decades apparently so. Oh, my gosh. So this volunteer asked the library systems lawyer to take a look at it,

and the lawyer was like, holy shit, guys, we should be getting a ton of money. Yeah. It says right here that when Rose dies, all the copyrighted literary property and the income from that property should be given to this library.

So the Laura Ingalls Library of Mansfield, Missouri looked itself in the mirror and it said, Let's go to court! By some estimates, the royalties on Laura Ingalls Wilder's estate could have been worth as much as $100 million. Yeah, that seems, yeah. You had it about $99. Yeah, because in like 96.

So the legal team for the library was like, hey, look, everybody, just take a look at the will. Obviously, we are owed a boatload of money. So just fork it over and we'll head on back to Mansfield. But McBride's heirs and their good friends, Harper Collins, published the books. We're like, screech, nope. We really like having the money ourselves, thanks. Grown quite attached to it.

They said that Rose had every right to renew the copyrights on her mom's literary works. That's what she did. And then those copyrights belonged to her. Therefore, they were no longer part of her estate and thus, no longer subject to Laura's will.

So a few different sources kind of had this different ways. And I guess it seems, according to some, that Rose directed Roger to renew these copyrights. Okay. But in whose... Yeah. What do you think? I think it seemed like Roger was scamming Rose. Yeah.

Yeah. And he got away with it and now what yeah oh i think this sucks yeah i think it super sucks yeah so they're like no no no no and oh by the way even if the library had a claim, which it doesn't, the library is too late to the party. Because the library got its one royalty payout in 1972. It was for a whopping $28,000. No! And it came with a warning that clearly said that by endorsing that check, the library was renouncing all future claims to any money from the estate. That is sneaky.

Fuck that. That is sneaky. I hate that. I hate it. The legal team for the library was pissed. They were like, yeah, the library was defrauded. And freaking Roger McBride bamboozled the library's directors by tricking them into thinking he was some adopted grandson when when really he was just a friend at best

yeah and this goes all the way to the top because harper collins aided in this deception so the library asked for unspecified damages and also also asked the judge, Orty D. Smith, to determine how much the Wilder estate was actually worth. Yeah. Part of what made this all so murky was the fact that, you know, some of Laura Ingalls Wilder's books

had been published after her death. So did the library have the rights to the money from those books? Or just the ones that had been published for her death? Because, you know, her will, obviously, I don't think included those. those books or just the ones that had been published for her debt because you know her will obviously i don't think included those i mean i'm sure i don't know

it was a big gray or perhaps green area green because of money yeah oh look at you. Pretty clever, huh? The lawsuit dragged on for two years. And Brandy, you're going to love this. It's settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. Brandy's favorite thing. But I want you to do it. I gave you a gift of a case today. You did.

I love it. I'm sorry. This is settled out of court for an undisclosed about. Here's the thing, though. You like my impression of you? It was spot on. People are like, is Kristen roasting herself? I want you to Google.

And this is I'm sorry to the Laura Ingalls Wilder library, but Google them and you tell me how much money they got out of this lawsuit. Oh. Right? Oh, no. This poor library. My God. Yeah, they didn't get shit no no they did not oh i still want to go let's go yeah let's absolutely go but i'm just saying like i think they were owed a lot of money and clearly they did not get shit i think they bought the library employees new coats to wear maybe some buckets to hold all the leaks from the roof

so the library is still open and according to trip advisor it's the number three thing on the list of things to do in Mansfield, Missouri. What do I want to do? Hang on. A recent review said, expected more, but was okay, I guess. Glowing review. So the Laura Ingalls Wilder Historic Home and museum is the number one thing okay and the cemetery is number two well not gonna lie cemetery was higher on my list i will because you're a big

old weirdo make no mistake so a recent review on the lauraalls Wilder Historic Home and Museum gave it five stars. And the reviewer wrote, bring water and check for ticks. Oh, God. Which is my review of any rural Missouri area. Yeah. Laura Ingalls Wilder made headlines more recently in 2018. We're circling back to racism. Just a fun little circle fun circle when the american

library association voted unanimously to strip her name from a major children's literature award because of how laura ingalls wilder referred to native americans and african americans in her work and that's what you remember from her that was That was the one thing I remembered. Yeah. Here's, so obviously, well, here we go. For example, in Little House on the Prairie, she wrote, there were no people. Only Indians lived there. Well, those are people. Evidently not.

Oh, my gosh. In later editions of the book, that section was obviously removed. Yeah. But also throughout the series, multiple characters say that the only good Indian is a dead Indian. And that stuck with you. I remember being shocked by it. Yeah. And I remember telling my parents about it. Yeah.

Wow. So now that award is named the Children's Literature Legacy Award. There was some backlash to that, which I think is stupid. Yeah. I think you can still you can. People get so weird about cancel culture. You can still read this stuff. You can look at it through a critical lens. Yeah. But when you know better, you do better. yeah but when you know better you do better we know you know yeah we see how racist that is so we don't need to celebrate right this person we don't need the monuments we don't need the don't look at me like i have a confederate monument in my yard christian

you don't have a lawn gnome You just have a little confederate guy. It's heritage, not hate. And that's the story of the literary estate of Laura Ingalls Wilder. I hate that. I think that. Yeah. I mean. I think it was totally a scam.

Roger, I think he pulled the wool over the townspeople's eyes on that one. I think he totally got away with it. Yeah. They said, I didn't write this part down but they said he like used the money to finance his presidential bid and it's like well yeah he used the money for all kinds of things he moves the money to live he he made a freaking tv show out of it wow um i thought his daughter seemed like kind of an interesting character she is that's not to say very low-key but i would almost say reclusive like they're you can't find photos of her you can't find anything on her so she just lays back with that money i guess yeah somewhere in virginia

i bet that's not by accident no yeah although i mean her dad was out there doing his thing running for president he was nobody knew yet at that point yeah i guess that's true but even then i mean rich people do douchey things all the time and the townspeople in this in these articles i read were like so aggressively nice they were like we're sure it wasn't intentional oh my god seriously seriously all right we're gonna go support this library i know after we go to the home and the cemetery first we'll go in order that trip advisor says what do they say is next the casey's guest hold on let's look it up okay mansfield missouri okay Best of Mansfield, Missouri. Okay, I'm going to do things to do.

Okay. All right. Flights. Yeah, I'm sure you're going to get a direct flight. Yeah, you can fly right into Mansfield. Okay. Number one. We know number one.

We know number two. Number three. Number four is Bakersville Pioneer Village. Ooh. Ooh. That sounds good. Which I got to say, that has 100 reviews, four and a half stars. The Wilder Library has 12 reviews, four stars. So how is that in third place?

And then number five is the Baker Creek Heirloom Seed Company, which has 13 reviews and five stars. So I'm thinking this might be more like number five on the list. stars so i'm thinking this might be more like number five on the list i'm thinking the library used its significant funds to get bumped up in the trip advisor should i look at the restaurants top restaurants yeah what do we got there just apples and squirrel carcasses oh vaquero's pizza and pasta okay sweet nelly's Ice Cream Parlor. All right. Caroline's Dry Goods. Oh, one recent review says fresh and homemade. Another says, wish I hadn't bothered.

And Rise and Grind. Ooh. That a coffee place? Mm-hmm. No, it's a place to just hook up. Oh, then they've got a subway subway makes the list then weaver in coffee and dessert bar and then oh ma and pa's kettle has two and a half stars and 26 reviews kind of here. We've got one review, amazing food. The other one, we won't be back.

Okay. Bonus video idea. We go to Mansfield. We go to these places and then we hit the food list. Okay. I would love it. But Norm is such a bitch when he eats bad food. You know this.

I know it. Remember he ordered wrong at that place in Branson. He was real testy about it. I mean, you've described my entire life with him. Which place are you talking about? The place where he got the burger and I got the French toast because all the reviews said they have the best French toast. And he was like. Nothing.

Eyeballing my French toast the whole time. You know, here's the thing. If we go to a restaurant and everyone orders badly you know okay okay it's a wash but if you happen to have ordered well and he ordered badly he will stare you down as you eat your meal it is the creepiest thing knowing you you probably offered him a bite and he was just i i gave him i could eat it all it was so delicious i couldn't eat it all i gave him part of my french toast to that probably just twisted the knife in his gut i probably did it probably did yeah i would love to go to mansfield

yeah okay and we can hit well i'm hitting oceola on the way there i guarantee you it's on the way brandy i am not sitting in a car with you while you eat a wheel of cheese. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. No, look it up. Look up Mansfield, Missouri. Let's see. Let's map out our route.

Let's map our, yeah, our route. Ooh, Mansfield Woods Vacation. Oh, yeah. Three hour drive. That's not bad. We could do that in three and a half hours. Turn back time. No, I was wondering if I could throw in a third location.

Oh, yeah. It's definitely on the way. It's another hour, 48 minutes from. Hell no. No, no, no. You drive an hour. Okay. You drive an hour and a half to Osceola. And then you you drive an hour and a half to osceola and then you drive the other

hour and a half okay to i thought you were trying to tell me oh it's just an hour an hour and a half out of the way to get some cheese no it's on the way i'll throw a brick of velveta back at you i think we could probably make might be able to make Lamberts happen, too. Oh, man. That was fun. No, man. Loved it. So good to have you back. It does feel really good.

I didn't even cry this time. Yeah, do you want to talk to people about when we recorded the bonus episode? It was the first time I'd left London. I got a little teary, just slightly. I didn't, like, I wasn't sobbing or anything. Brandy showed up to the house in tears and then tried to act like she wasn't in tears. No, poor Brandy. It was fine.

Do you want to do questions? Stop looking at me like that! Yes. But first of all, how the hell do they get into this Discord you speak of? They join our Patreon at patreon.com slash LGTC podcast. You can join at the Appellate Supreme Court or Bob. Sorry, I was looking off into the distance. Sometimes I do that because I'm very deep. Yes, you're just reflecting on all of life's quandaries.

Yeah, that's right. About to solve something until you interrupted me. Were you going to solve the Watcher? Yeah. I already did, though. I mean. It's Peg. It's Peg.

Peg. Oh, Happy Face Melissa wants to know, If you magically already had the training and know-how, what job in the criminal justice system would you want or think you would be good at? I would like to be a crime scene investigator or a medical examiner. Why?

You don't even have an explanation. I do, because you actually get to go to the scene if you're the crime scene investigator, and then, I don't know, I think I maybe missed my calling and was supposed to be a like a what use your word undertaker is the word that's coming to me but i don't think that's what they're called do you want to be a medical examiner do you want to like run a fueler no no i don't want to run a fuel parlor but i think that if i was in

the criminal justice field i would want to be a middle examiner. Okay. But, uh, no, what's the word for a... Mortician. Mortician. Ha ha ha! Mosquito. Um, hmm. What if you were to be a lawyer, but you didn't have to go all the way through law school? Would you want to do that? I don't know that I would.

I really think I just wanted the money um maybe i would want to be a detective yeah maybe i would want to be a lawyer would you wear a trench coat oh yeah nothing on it obviously just a bunch of watches inside, nothing underneath. Although, you know, I get so annoyed with others. I don't know. I think maybe. What can I do for my house? Yeah. Can I be a detective who doesn't detect anything? No, I think I'm well suited for what I currently do.

Doe Cat wants to know, have you thought of selling t-shirts? No, I wish someone would say something about that. We are on it, guys. We are working on it, we promise. We are working on merch as we speak. As we speak, question mark, probably not as we speak. Not right this, but you know, we're on it. We've got stuff in the works, guys.

It's in the works. It's happening. It's coming down the chute. Are you taking a shit? It's coming down the chute. Yeah. Oh, well, I don't think of shit. I think of like, you know, going down a slip and slide.

Yeah, like no one's ever said poop chute before, Kristen. I surround myself with classier people than that. Schmarles Barkley wants to know, which game show do you think you'd win the most money on if you played as a team? What about individually? Okay, just individually, because I would only drag you down.

What do you think you would... You wouldn't want to be on Family Feud with me? No. No? I would not want to be on any game show, ever. Well, the one you stand to make the most money on would be Jeopardy because there's no limit. The man can't hold you down.

That's right. Would you want to be on Jeopardy? Oh, I'd love to be on Jeopardy. Have you ever tried? I took the test once. Really? Yeah, but you don't find out your results and even if you do good enough to qualify, you don't necessarily ever get a call. I took the test once. Is that what you tell yourself?

No. It's legitimately how it works, Kristen. I don't think I did that good, though. Hmm. Because I've strengthened strengths and weaknesses. And history is a big weakness for me. And I got a history-heavy quiz. Which surprises me because I would think you'd be interested in history.

You love stories. Yeah. Well, history is just a bunch of stories. Yeah. It's his story, if you will. Stop it. What forbidden pregnancy treats are you looking forward most to having again? Steak.

Dave and I are actually going out for steak on Saturday. I've not been to a restaurant since all of this stuff. Yeah, me neither. I don't know how it's going to work, but we might just pick it up to go. But I want a steak so bad. You're not allowed to eat steak? Well, not how I ate it. I ate it medium rare, and you can't eat it like that when you're pregnant.

Remember I ate that one steak when we went out for, when we recorded, and it was like shoe leather. We went to a place in Brookside. Oh yeah. Red Door. That's known for the fried chicken, but you can't get fried chicken there. Yeah. That was a disappointment.

Yeah. My steak was shoe leather cause I had to get it cooked medium well. It's terrible. Gay Scorpio wants to know, Brandy, as a hairstylist, is there a certain way you're supposed to shampoo and condition hair? So I laughed when I first saw this question. Then I was like, wait, am I doing it wrong too?

What do you... Shampoo first. Okay, there's a YouTuber that I was watching. Shampoo second, conditions first she conditioned shampooed then conditioned thoughts questions comments concerns i'm concerned about that no that's not how i do it i've never seen it done before i might try it and see what what happens it's a big wild world out there brand Brandy. I shampoo twice and then condition. Typically, I think people use too much conditioner and they put it too close to their roots. You want to do mid-shafts to ends only. Otherwise, you're just weighing your hair down. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Maybe

that's been a problem for me lately. What do you think? Volume is never your issue. You have plenty of hair. Oh my god. Leilin wants to know, what would happen if you guys were handcuffed together for a solid week? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What would happen? What would happen? I don't... We would annoy the crap out of each other.

You'd want to watch the Game Show Network. Yeah, and you'd want to run. Here's what we'd do. We'd get a chair for you next to the treadmill yeah and as a compromise you'd put on the game show network exactly right and we'd both be annoyed yes we would because i would drip sweat on you and you would flip oh yeah i wouldn't like that yeah overall i think it'd be a pretty good time i mean you know yeah all things considered yeah we could handle it well sure i mean we wouldn't off ourselves i mean come on well we wouldn't like with all the time we've spent together yeah exactly fine exactly

dirty slut goblin says if you could go back to your birth experience and catapult one hospital employee into the sun, who would it be and why is it Barb? Barb and her spoons go flying. Oh, and Margaret says, favorite word that sounds dirty but isn't. Oh, I can't think of one of my own. This is David's. David loves to use this word. What is it? Favorite word that sounds dirty but isn't. Hmm. Ooh. I can't think of one of my own. This is David's. David loves to use this word. What is it?

Kerfuffle. I was just thinking that. Really? Yes. And he uses it like it's a dirty word. I mean, I think that's so weird that I was thinking that word. Yeah. I got to say kerfuffle. All right. It doesn't sound like a nice word man that's funny

brooke mcf says the world is going to shit if our country divides into separate districts all hunger game style would you volunteer as tribute for each other i would volunteer as tribute for you yeah i'm gonna pretend that i know what that means and say sure what does it mean so i never read hunger games oh man i loved hunger games so basically it's like each district you have basically a child you have to fight for the death for you yeah okay yeah i'd do it no no i wouldn't allow that you're a mom now yeah that's true i guess that's important i'm taking this question very seriously i read that i was like okay yeah brandy's a mom i'm not so yeah i'll go in there i would for sure

die because it's a competition so yeah you know guess who loses there the non-competitive person and you know it's violence yeah yeah like that's it i'm good oh geez okay now we're getting rude geez oh p geez oh p people are getting real rude around here. Well, should we move on to Supreme Court inductions? Let's do it. You gonna tell people how to get inducted?

Wow. All right, sassy pants. You gonna tell people how to get inducted? You guys, here's how it happens. You have to get on Patreon at the $7 level. the ten dollar level that gets you

in too this week we are reading your names and your favorite books you want me to do names yes please eric yother lolita saranette the princess bride chelsea adkins the cirque de freak series The Cirque du Freak series. Madeline. Invisible Monsters. Abby Jean Sedlak. The Secret History. Pam. The Handmaid's Tale. Pam.

Aubrey Parent. And The Mountains Echoed. Catherine, you're... She goes by Kathleen, actually. Kathleen is a beautiful common name. Sorry. Kathleen Yerbick. Jane Eyre.

Jacqueline Siegel. The Beauty Myth. Sarah Solomon. Verity. Catherine Bruno. Invisible Monsters. Oh, two people? I know.

That's, what are the odds of that? You know, it happens pretty often. In the same induction? Yeah, because Harry Potter. Okay, but that's like... The Bible. Lisa Christensen. Haroon and the Sea of Stories.

Welcome to the Supreme Court. Thank you guys for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon. Please subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and head over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a rating, leave us a review,

and be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia.

So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from Wikipedia, The New York Times, The L.A. Times, and NPR. I got my info from an article for The Cut by Reeves Weidman, thethings.com, and CNN. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.