Let's Go To Court! - 136: The Great Molasses Flood & a Father's Love

Episode Date: August 19, 2020

It was the winter of 1919, and the folks at the Purity Distilling Company were working their asses off. Prohibition was right around the corner, and they wanted to make as much rum as they could -- while it was still legal. They received shipment after shipment of a key ingredient: Molasses. All of it went in a tank in Boston’s North End. The tank was 50 feet tall and 90 feet in diameter. It held up to 2.3 million gallons of molasses. But the tank had problems. It leaked constantly, and it made strange groaning sounds. It had been poorly constructed. On January 15, 1919, the tank collapsed. Then Brandi tells us about pedofile Jeff Doucet. Jeff ran a karate studio in the 80s, and that’s how he gained the trust of 11 year old Jody Plauche. Over time, Jeff groomed Jody. For a year, he sexually abused the boy. Then, in February of 1984, he kidnapped Jody. Investigators tracked Jeff down to a motel in California, and returned Jody to his parents. Jody’s parents were devastated to hear what had happened to their son. And Jody’s father Gary decided to get revenge. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: The book, “Dark Tide: The Great Boston Molasses Flood of 1919” by Stephen Puleo “The Great Molasses Flood,” by Robert Stanly for New England Today “Why the Great Molasses Flood Was So Deadly” by Emily Sohn for history.com “Great Molasses Flood” entry on Britannica “Great Molasses Flood” entry on Wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Survivors Perspective with Jody Plauché” episode, Criminal Perspective podcast “Molested, abducted as a child in infamous Baton Rouge case, Jody Plauché wants his story to help others” by George Morris, The Advocate “A Father’s Justice” by Rick Reilly, ESPN “Man Who Shot Son’s Alleged Kidnapper Pleads Innocent” by Guy Coates, AP “Plauche Pleads No Contest To Manslaughter Charges” by Ray Formaker Jr., AP “Father Who Killed Alleged Abuser on TV Avoids Jail” Los Angeles Times “Gary Plauché” wikipedia.org

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about the Great Molasses Flood. And I'll be talking about a father's love.

That's gonna be terrible. It is. Speaking of a father's love, my father was just here. We just had a pop-in from DP. First of all, it's kind of an After Dark episode. It's a little bit weird. We both just had two whiskeys. Well, you know, one each.

We each had a whiskey. It was so good. Peanut butter whiskey. It sounds weird. Quite good. Holy shit, so good. Now listen to us try to see these cases. See these cases.

Yeah, and then, so we filmed the bonus video. Right, which is going to be me reading excerpts from my middle school diary. Pretty amazing. And as we were finishing up, there was a wild DP sighting. It was terrifying. It was. He came around my porch, walked by like a Bigfoot. Yes.

And then like, came up and like pressed his nose to the glass to look in. Which he's got that toucan Sam nose. Oh, poor DP. Oh, calm down. He was just talking about how no one's ever said he's handsome. Okay, he wasn't telling it like that, Brandy. about how no one's ever said he's handsome. Okay, he wasn't telling it like that, Brandy.

He was telling a story about how one time when he was out with his friend, Mike. His friend, his very good-looking friend. Some lady said to Mike, you are so hot, and didn't even say anything to TB. I think my dad was just stunned because he didn't know that men got those kind of compliments ever. He was like, you girls ever heard of this?

He did ask us if we would ever do that. And I would never. I would never just like see a man and be like, oh my God, you're so attractive. How do you think I landed the gaming historian? Did you have an opening line with the gaming historian? Are you kidding me? Brandy, look at this. Look at this.

You think I was the one with the line? No, no. He cozied on next to me. I think it's cozied up. Yeah, cozied on, cozied up, whatever. Like a little, you just can't, like a little boy came and sat on your lap because he was 12. Would you guys fit? Okay.

All right. All right. Anyway, what's your dumb story about David? Let's move on. What's your dumb story about David? So his opening line was over messaging because we met on Tinder. Yeah. You're a modern couple.

Yeah. That's right. that's right. And so he said, my profile said I was looking for someone to kill spiders for me. Oh, God. What? He told me he wasn't afraid of spiders. Look at your smile. You're still charmed.

I am. All this time later. Who kills the spiders for me? Well, anyway, that's a great story. Well, anyway, that's a great story You ready for this? Oh, wait, wait, wait Business cats Yeah

Business cats Yeah You guys, I almost jumped into the case Whoa Pulling back Yeah Because I gotta tell you If you want more of this

And who wouldn't? Mm-hmm Find us over on Patreon. That's patreon.com slash LGTC podcast. Sorry. How's your hair doing over there? It got stuck to your lip gloss. You guys, at the $5 level, you get a monthly bonus episode, and you get into our Discord, which is like a 90s chat room, at the Supreme Court level. You get all that, plus a monthly bonus video where we drink whiskeys

and my dad pops in and we read embarrassing diary entries. Good God. Terrible. You also get inducted onto the podcast and you get a sticker. But, at the $10 level, that's the Bob Moss level, you get all that plus ad-free episodes, and you get them a day early. That's right. Early bird gets the... Episode?

Early. Early. That's what they say. That's the phrase. I mean, we didn't write it. Okay. Do you know about this? A tiny bit.

I mean, just from context clues? Yeah, I mean, I know it happens in Boston. I know a bunch of people died. Baston, huh? Okay. Baston. I mean, a million people suggested this case when you were doing your Baston series. You know what? Adam and Connor, who sent in all the suggestions, this is one of their suggestions. Yeah. They emailed this in a million years ago. Adam and Connor, who sent in all the suggestions. This is one of their suggestions. They emailed this in a million years ago. And here I am.

Finally getting around to it. At record speed. Early bird, getting the worm, doing this case. Okay, so first off. There's a lot of great information about this case everywhere. But the thing that was super crazy helpful was the book Dark Tide, The Great Molasses Flood of 1919 by Stephen Puello. People call this The Great Molasses Flood of 1919, but I'm like, have there been other great molasses?

Other molasses floods? I mean, God, I hope not. But anyway, I feel like we don't need to attach a year to it. Just my opinion. I'm just thinking about gingerbread now. Why? Because molasses is in gingerbread. Did you ever have those like molasses archway cookies?

I loved those. Oh, yeah. I thought about buying them for this episode. And then that seemed like it would be in poor taste because people died. Yeah. Yeah. So I decided not to. Yeah. Because people died.

Yeah. Yeah. So I decided not to. My grandpa, actually, my papa, he liked to make cookies. And he was trying to duplicate this molasses cookie that his mother, I believe, used to make when he was a kid. And so he was like trying out all these different recipes when I was maybe like 12 or 13. And so I ate a bunch of molasses cookies when he was doing that. Did he ever get it?

I don't think so. Well, that's sad. Never perfected it. But they were all delicious. You sound like a terrible food reviewer. I would be a terrible. It's all delicious. I would be a terrible food reviewer because I'd be like, mm.

Yeah, I couldn't even try it. I saw an onion. Oh, unless it's a room temperature jar of SpaghettiOs. I don't like it. Does sound delicious. Anyway, back to the thing. God. Oh, what?

What? Redemption lunch today. Oh, we did talk about last week how we'd have three bad lunches in a row. Yeah. Had a good lunch today. I got a taco salad. It was so good. Which Kristen has been getting the last few times we've ordered from this place.

And she was holding out on how good it was. Brandy. What? How many times have I ordered something at a restaurant that you would also like? Not that often. Exactly. I know you're trying to make some point. I am trying to make a point. My point is like. I don't like the things you like. Not that often. Exactly. Why on earth would I. I know you're trying to make some point.

I am trying to make a point. My point is like. I don't like the things you like. Yeah. So why would you think I'd like the taco salad? This was delicious. It had a bunch of cheese on it and then cheese sauce. Uh huh.

A sprinkling of lettuce. Yeah. More of a garnish. Anyway, thank you for that. People wanted to know. You're welcome. So literally all of the legal stuff in here comes from Stephen's very thorough book. Very good.

So thank you to Stephen. Also, Wikipedia. Love you. How'd you find the book? Did you purchase the book? Did you check out the book from your local library? Is it available online? Are you stalling?

No, I'm just curious. Because I, okay, because the reason I ask is that the case that I'm doing today, there's a book, but I didn't read the book. So I didn't think I could get it in time. And then I found out at zero hour this morning that there's a Kindle version available. So I could have purchased the book. I think I'm still going to purchase the book. I found it on the Internet Archive. Which is the Internet's library, ma'am.

Okay. Okay? All right. That suit you? Yeah. All right. Old-timey disclaimer. Excellent.

Say no more. Old timey disclaimer Excellent Say no more It was January of 1919 In Boston's North End And things were A little hectic The Purity Distilling Company

Had a facility located at Oh, I'm not even I was over here I mean, it's really nothing to look at now No, I'm looking at it Okay, 529 Commercial Street, Boston, Mass. I would just like to say that yes, this is not much to look at. And also, I wouldn't have thought that one whiskey would be risky to have before the podcast. I know, but I'm really

feeling like, oh shit, we've messed it up. Yeah, there seems to be some construction going on here currently. Do you have marbles in your mouth? I might You're very lucky you're going second That's correct Time for you to sober up Meanwhile, I'm gonna like

Well, I mean, this is about the Purity Distilling Company So here I am Here I sit Okay, here we go So these folks were working their asses off Because prohibition was a-coming. They had three shifts a day, working all the live-long day. The Purity Distilling Company made awesome rum.

And they wanted to make as much of it as they possibly could before the U.S. banned alcohol and everyone completely stopped drinking forever. We should go here because we could go to this place and then the Paul Revere house, it looks like it's like walking distance from there. It is. Okay, continue. Here's the thing. In order for the Purity Distilling Company to make their rum, they needed

molasses. A shit ton of molasses. So, on their property, they had a steel tank right by the water and it was just filled of molasses. So on their property, they had a steel tank right by the water, and it was just filled with molasses. The tank was massive. It was 50 feet tall, 90 feet in diameter, and it was capable of holding 2.3 million gallons of molasses. Holy shit. I just learned this on some game show that molasses is what

gives rum its color. Yeah, I had no idea. I didn't know that. Well, we're learning a lot today, aren't we? The tank wasn't super well constructed. It made these weird groaning sounds sometimes. That's worrisome. And it leaked a bunch. Oh, no, it was no big deal. No big deal. Totally safe. Totally fine. The people who lived nearby got free molasses from all the drippy drops.

Oh, God. Yeah, that's how much this thing leaked. Purity Distilling Company. Okay, can you explain your face? What's going on with you? I'm picturing like a river of molasses running down the street just, like, ladling it up and using it for their cookies. Uh, no, what I imagine is, like, it's this huge tank thing, so as it's coming down the legs of the tank, people were scooping some off. This was on the outside of the distillery, so people could just walk up and, and get a ladle full of molasses whenever they wanted it? I mean, I'm sure they had some dumb sign or like a, you know. All right.

But yeah, I mean, everyone knew it leaked and they'd come and get some. Okay. Purity Distilling Company was a subsidiary of the United States Industrial Alcohol Company. And the good folks at the USIA figured out that they didn't have to stop the leaks from happening because they could just paint the tank brown. Let me say that again. I thought you said tank instead of tank. I did. I did. They could just paint the tank brown.

Yeah. And then you wouldn't see the sticky substance running down the legs. Right. Then it's like it's all fixed. Band-aid. band-aid. Yeah. And don't worry, this tank made of steel. Super duper thin steel. The steel was a little over half an inch thick along the bottom of the tank and a little more than a quarter of an inch thick at the top.

Even by old-timey standards, people knew better. But here's the thing. U.S. industrial alcohol had been under a real time crunch when they made that tank, because the First World War had created an even bigger demand for alcohol because in addition to enjoying a drinky drink, alcohol was also used to make dynamite and all kinds of scary shit. I didn't know that.

Now you do. If you don't know, now you know. What's that from? It's a wrap. Beautifully said. So they slapped this molasses, I'm sorry, so they slapped this massive molasses tank together and for the job,

they enlisted one of their best men, Arthur P. Jell, a dude with, what a fake name. Arthur P. Jell at your service. He was a very real dude with no architectural experience and no engineering experience. And, you know, it might have been smart to build the tank and then have it inspected. No.

Perhaps even just fill it with water just to see if it leaked before you fill it with molasses. Yeah. But who had time for any of that nonsense? I mean, that would be worth it even just to save on the cost of the leaking molasses that you're losing. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, it's...

Not even for safety's sake. It's just like... Budget concern. Yeah. This is stupid in many respects. So, they built a shoddy tank and filled it with molasses. But don't worry, because they'd followed all the rules. I don't think they did.

No, at the time there were no rules. Oh, okay, so they did follow all the rules. So there were some rules, but here's the deal. Because the tank was considered a receptacle and not a building, they weren't technically required to get a permit for it or have an engineer oversee its construction, even though it was 50 feet tall, 90 feet in diameter, this huge, scary thing. That's fucking huge.

Yes. That's building-sized. I agree. Okay. An employee at U.S. Industrial Alcohol named Isaac Gonzalez spoke up. He warned Arthur P. Jell, who I swear was a real person, that the tank was leaking. It didn't seem safe. But, meh.

The folks in charge knew that the tank made the weird groaning sounds when it was filled, and they knew that it leaked, and they knew it hadn't been put through any safety tests. And if they'd hired someone with the right education, they would have known that the steel they'd used was way too thin. But here's what they didn't know. They didn't know that their steel hadn't been mixed with enough manganese. Oh, yeah. Manganese.

A word meaning male geese. No. They hadn't mixed in enough of the male geese. It seems cruel to mix in the male geese, but you have to. No, so it is a metal anyway. Because it hadn't been mixed with enough manganese, mayonnaise. The steel was super sensitive. Super sensitive.

Oh, God. You guys, we shouldn't have had whiskey. Shouldn't have. The steel was super sensitive in certain temperatures. Other sources cite different reasons for why the tank might have been sensitive to temperature changes. Science, science, science. I'm a moody little bitch.

That's right. And that's coming from a scientist. That's right. But the bottom line was that, thanks to shoddy construction, the tank was sensitive to a lot of factors, including temperature changes. Yeah. Well, I figure any metal is subject to temperature changes, right? A moody little bitch, as you said.

Metal shrinks and expands with extreme temperature changes. Yeah. Yeah. So you'd probably need to, you know. No. No. Wait for that when you're building. Nope.

Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Okay. Don't need an engineer involved. Don't need an architect involved. You're, it's receptacle, Brandy. Just calm down. Okay. The tank hadn't been filled to the max very many times, but on January 14th, 1919, with pressure mounting to produce and produce and produce, a ship arrived with more molasses to add to the tank. The tank was already pretty full, but they added the new molasses, which was warmer than the molasses that was already in the tank, because in order to transport it, they had to warm it up. So the leaky, shitty tank now held about 2.3 million gallons of molasses. And the tank began to groan. A few days earlier, the weather had been very typical for Boston in January.

It was miserably cold. But on January 14th, the day that the new molasses was added, the weather changed. It got warmer. So some analysts think that the colder molasses that had already been in the tank underwent some thermal expansion during this time. At any rate, all these factors, the construction, the temperature change, the addition of more molasses, all these factors were working together. And so, at 1 p.m. on January 15, 1919, the tank burst. Oh, no. The noise was incredible.

The rivets popped off the tank, and it sounded like a machine gun going off. The ground shook. Witnesses said it sounded like a roar as the tank and it sounded like a machine gun going off. The ground shook. Witnesses said it sounded like a roar as the tank burst open. But worse than the sound was the molasses itself. 2.3 million gallons of fucking molasses gushed through the streets of Boston's North End at 25 miles an hour. The wave of molasses was 40 feet high. Holy shit. Buildings and houses were completely wiped out. A big steel chunk from the tank slammed into the elevated railway system. And so this motor man who was manning the streetcar saw all this happen. He saw the section of railway in front of him get knocked into oblivion. So he ran like hell to the back of the car, managed to stop the car before it ran out of railway.

Oh, my God. I mean, it was just like, I'm getting goosebumps. It was just chaos. The wave of molasses. Talk about a sticky situation. Okay, Brandy. Jesus Christ. Have you been saving that?

No. Okay, great. A bunch of people died. You gonna be happy with that? No. That's why I had to do it now before we find out they died. The wave of molasses picked up a five-ton Mack truck and knocked it into a building. At first, most people had no clue what was going on.

Brandy. They heard a terrible bang, and then a sweet-smelling tornado-like wind would pick them up in the air. Oh, my gosh. People were struck with debris. I mean, it was like a tornado that smelled like molasses. Yeah. And then, of course, came the molasses. Once the initial wave hit, several blocks were just flooded with it. Some places had it waist high, some had it two feet deep. One man tried to outrun the molasses, but of course he got swept up in it and it carried him 35 feet and

slammed him against a building. Oh my gosh. But a guy who I assume was on a roof saw him struggling and threw him a ladder so the guy was able to climb onto it and get to safety. For blocks, every living thing was covered in brown, sticky molasses. The Boston they struggled, the deeper in the mess they were ensnared. Human beings, men and women, suffered likewise. Yeah, that's terrible. What's the, I mean, it's all wild, but like the color of molasses made rescue efforts that much harder. Yeah.

Because people couldn't see shit. Yeah. Temperatures hindered the rescue efforts as well. The afternoon had been relatively warm for Boston, so molasses had gushed through the streets. But as the hours went by, the temperature dropped and the molasses thickened. Mm-hmm. And people got stuck. Yeah. and people drowned

you asshole situation but so many people tried to help 116 cadets from the uss nantucket had been docked nearby and when they realized what was happening they ran toward the molasses and waded through it yanking out survivors and helping them get to safety the red cross showed up the boston police showed up military showed up ordinary citizens showed up some rescuers helped the victims and other rescuers were in charge of just like fending off all the curious people who'd shown up just to get a look at what happened there were so many injured people and there were dead people too and it was hard to identify the people who died because their bodies were covered in molasses so their friends and family had a really hard time recognizing them. The North End was a mess.

It took months to find all the bodies. In total, 21 people died as a result of the Great Molasses Flood. Two of the victims were children. I think two more were teenagers. 150 people were injured. Oh, my gosh. The cleanup effort took weeks. I can't even imagine where you would begin to clean up a mess like that. Okay. What do you think? Well, I don't know. I feel like it'd be easier to clean it up if you get it warm.

Right. But how do you, how do you do that? Exactly. Yeah. I have no idea. So what they did was farmers from nearby towns would come in to cart away what molasses they could. Just hundreds of people pitched in. They tried absorbing the molasses with sand. They tried washing it away with salt water. But, I mean, there was so much of it. For six months after that tank burst, the Boston Harbor was brown with molasses. The city reeked of it. Everything in the greater Boston area became sticky because rescue workers would come into the North End and then they'd come back home.

Everyone was affected. There were so many victims living and dead. And the thing is, the survivors knew that the Great Molasses Flood hadn't been some unforeseeable act of God. And even though the vast majority of the victims were working class people, many of them immigrants, they knew they'd been wrong and they wanted justice. Here we go, Brandy. Yes.

119 parties filed lawsuits. Wow. Which was chaos. All these different lawsuits. Talk about a sticky situation. Okay. Yes, that's exactly what the United States Industrial Alcohol Company said. So in court, the USIA argued in favor of making this a class action lawsuit. Yeah. They were like,

yo, judge, can we consolidate this shit? They were like, if we make this, so I'm not exactly clear on how they were originally going to do this. Yeah. But it sounded like everyone was supposed to be there all at the same time. Oh, God. Which, yeah, the USIA's argument for making it a class action was, we don't even have, the courtroom's not big enough. Yeah. Boston's best legal minds would be out in the hallway. We simply can't have that.

Boston's best legal minds would be out in the hallway. We simply can't have that. They also thought they might have a better shot at winning a class action lawsuit rather than a bunch of mini battles, but they didn't say that part out loud. Because, duh. Yeah. I don't think they stand a chance at winning, though. Yeah, probably not. I think the thinking was, like, if we're just doing one big case and we can tear apart, you know, one way, you know.

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So the judge agreed. A class action lawsuit of this size was absolutely unprecedented, but it seemed like the best way to move forward. So all of the victims banded together in the fight against U.S. industrial alcohol. But this case was so massive and so complicated and so important that they didn't just let this thing go to trial. Instead, they enlisted a guy who had his own private practice and had recently come back from war. His name was Hugh Ogden. And he was kind of like a judge in this case. But technically, he was the auditor. Yeah. So he would hear evidence on liability and damages, and then he'd write up a report on his decision. And his decision wouldn't even be binding. But the higher ups in the legal system

hoped that by having someone knowledgeable listen to all this complicated evidence, he might be able to get to the truth of the matter. And after that, when the case went to jury, the case would be more streamlined. Yeah. So Hugh Ogden was told, hey, buddy, set aside six weeks for this thing. You'll make your little report. You'll be on your merry way. So the little six-week hearing got started. And, man, it was blue collar versus white collar.

Talk about a sticky situation. Okay, Brandy. Representing the defense was Charles Francis Chote. C-H-O-A-T-E. Chote? What? Sorry. I hesitated before many a letter.

Chote? C-H-O-A-T-E? Yeah. Looks like Chote to me. Anyway, he went to Harvard. Okay. Ever heard of it? Little school called Harvard.

It's Harvard. You know. What of it? A little school called Harvard. It's Harvard. What are you, Mario? It's Harvard! It's the Harvard of Cambridge. Representing the plaintiffs was Damon Hall, and he'd gone to BU.

Which, you know, is a fine school. Not Harvard. Not Harvard. It's not Harvard. The Harvard of Boston. Have you ever heard people say that? No.

I feel like anyone. That's stupid. Okay, this isn't. No, this is my PSA. No, they don't say that about BU. Oh, okay. This is my PSA. Because anyone who goes to a liberal arts college in the U.S. Yeah.

And it's not very well known. What they always say to people is... Oh, it's the Harvard of... Of Oregon. Uh-huh. It's the Harvard of... Oh, man. And it's like, no.

Here it is. No, there's no Harvard in Missouri, you know? Anyway, PSA adjourned. George Washington University is the Harvard of Missouri. No, there is no Harvard of Missouri. It's a fact, Kristen. You know, I consider DeVry to be the Harvard of Missouri. No, there is no Harvard of Missouri. No, it's a fact, Kristen. You know, I consider DeVry to be the Harvard of Missouri. In his opening statement for the plaintiffs, Damon Hall said,

We have all been accustomed to make fun of cold molasses, Brandy. Weird that he mentioned you by name. But this experience, which occurred in the heart of Boston at noon in January of 1919, taught us that cold molasses has death-dealing and destructive powers equal to the tornado or the cyclone when it is suddenly unloosed. Talk about a sticky situation. You thought you were so original with that joke, didn't you? sticky situation. You thought you were so original with that joke, didn't you? Damon said it in his opening statements. I think you need to tell people that Damon didn't really say it.

You think someone's taking notes? And they're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe he said that. Kind of bold. People die. Oh, my gosh. I can't believe he said that. Kind of bold. People die. Yeah, guys, Brandy wasn't being insensitive when she made the joke. Damon was insensitive in this hearing.

Typical BU guy, huh? Let's hear what the Harvard man had to say. So in the opening statement for the defense, Charles Francis Choate was like, this tank was built by reputable people, very skilled. The tank was maintained beautifully. They kept it painted real nice, perfect condition. Obviously, the only reason this thing went down was because anarchists came along and blew up that perfectly fine tank. Don't make that face, it was the anarchists. Yep, yep. They hated that the alcohol had been used in the war effort, so they decided to take down that sweet, innocent molasses tank.

Okay. What? I can read your whiteboard today, by the way. It says molasses flood. Are you wearing contacts today? Oh, I just wrote bigger, didn't I? Yeah. Okay. You guys, Brandy's very vain, and she... I'm not that vain.

I like my glasses. You're not that vain. Brandy, you and I are both very vain. Oh, no, no, no. But when it comes to my glasses, I like my glasses. I like the way I look in my glasses. I just don't think I need them. Oh, Brandy, you and I are both very vain. Oh, no, no, no. But when it comes to my glasses, I like my glasses. I like the way I look in my glasses. I just don't think I need them. Brandy, who do you think you're talking to right now?

Someone who just met you on the street? Oh, I like my glasses. I have maybe seen you in your glasses once. Once. Twice. Three times a lady. Seriously. Yeah, because what the fuck would i need them for here for seeing things like my whiteboard where i write very enticing notes molasses flood in smaller type i have a bunch of compliments to you and i guess you'll never know what they say

unless you get up and go closer i don't think they really exist over there. That's low self-esteem talking. The defense had a ton of very flashy, impressive expert witnesses. Experts from MIT, from Harvard, from Simmons University, all testified that... Did you just throw that one in there? You know how you you got the harvard's you got the mit's the stanford's the princeton's and then you simmons university yeah yeah you know what some some special lady out there it's very exciting someone on twitter the other day was like oh my gosh i

went to the same college as you and it's like there are 12 of us so you know if you're out there hey girl hey And like there are 12 of us. Yeah. So, you know, if you're out there. Hey, girl. Hey. So they all testified. No one from Simmons testified. Sorry. All testified that the tank had been structurally safe.

Maybe not as safe as they would have made it. But, you know, safe. Uh-huh. Until those anarchists came along. Yeah, ish. Safe-ish. They also had a highly respected dude from the State Police Department of Public Safety who testified that, yes, this could

have been done by some evil person. It looked like a typical explosion. And you know, it really wouldn't have taken much to do the job. But on cross-examination, what? Show me the explosives. I don't believe it.

This is bullshit. You wanted him to bring explosives into the courtroom, Brandy? Yes. As proof, I will blow this whole place up. And this is proof that some lunatic can just blow a place up. No, so on cross-examination, the dude fell apart. Damon was like, you know... It's awful.

What? Okay. You guys, this is Brandy losing her shit to her own joke. It's a bad day in court when your explosives expert blows his own arm off. But that's what happened here. You know how they got it back on him? Molasses.

Molasses. Molasses. That's the poor taste. You started it. Yesterday when I rehearsed this thing, I cried. And today, it's a mess. Jesus. I'm sorry. So Damon was like, you know, in a dynamite explosion, all the nearby glass breaks.

That's the cardinal mark of an explosion, right? And the dude was like, yeah. Yeah. And Ha was like, and did that happen with all the glass in the nearby area? And the dude was like, no, shucks, it didn't. Because the only broken glass had been glass that had been broken by the molasses. Glass that hadn't been touched by the molasses hadn't been shattered. So the defense had their fancy pants people, and the plaintiffs had a lot of ordinary people.

People who worked on the tank who could testify to its shoddy construction and people who work nearby who could say yeah i saw that thing lincoln all the time i think i said lincoln abe lincoln was there which doesn't seem possible at all, but you know. Did you? No. Time is... You just need to be able to walk right into the White House and go talk to Abe Lincoln. No shit, huh? That seems like a mistake. They should have changed that. So people were like, yeah, this thing was leaking all the time.

They testified that children in the neighborhood would gather around the base of the tank to fill their little molasses glasses. I don't know. Their molasses glasses? I think it sounds better than, like, them going and licking a pole, you know? Yeah. Which they probably did.

Everyone knew that the tank leaked like crazy. The defense tried to counter some of this by getting witnesses to concede that sometimes people who had no business being by the tank got close to the tank. So clearly, super easy for an anarchist to get in there and bing bang boom. The boom was the dynamite? Yeah. The bing and the bang was them setting up the dynamite. Yeah.

You gotta do your jazz hands as you walk up to the tank. This anarchy stuff annoyed the shit out of the plaintiff's attorney, even though it was... Okay, at first I thought the anarchy stuff was just nuts, but this was a thing that was kind of happening at the time. Yeah, I would say for the time that makes sense, yeah. But the plaintiff's attorney was, of course, annoyed. So he called a bunch of dudes who had been at war and who had been in the North End the day that the tank burst. And he said, OK, you've heard the sound of dynamite. You've heard the sound of explosives and you heard the sound that the tank made that day. Were those sounds familiar? And the guys said no.

The sound of the tank breaking and the sound of an explosion were totally different. But the biggest shining moment for the plaintiffs came when Damon Hall got to question the shit out of Arthur P. Jell, Brandy. Arthur P. Jell at your service. A.K.A. the genius who'd been in charge of the tank's construction. So Damon was like, so, you spent your entire career as a financial administrator, eh? Are you able to read building plans?

And of course the answer was no. Got any training as an engineer? No. How about any technical training at all? Of course, no. Wow. The testimony was quite damning. Oh, the testimony was quite damning.

At one point, Damon was like, did you submit the plans to any architect or engineer? And Arthur had to say no. And Damon asked, did you have anyone inspected? Did you even just show the plans to your New York office? No. No. No Arthur's testimony Was A busted tank full of

No's and I don't remembers That seemed like a good thing to write Yesterday and today it just feels weird At one point Damon asked When the tank was first constructed Why didn't you fill it with water to test for leaks? Right.

Yes. Brandy is the most upset about this. And Jell was like, there was no time. And Damon was like, okay, cool, bro. Any other reasons? And he said, get this, it was considered an unnecessary expense. That seems like a really weird argument. Get this. It was considered an unnecessary expense. Hmm. That seems like a really weird argument when.

Yeah. You're losing molasses. Yeah. Which is more valuable than water. Yeah. So Damon said, by whom was it considered an unnecessary expense? And Arthur said, by me. Yeah, that's what I was wondering.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Trying to get out of things with that passive voice, that passive construction, it was considered an unnecessary expense. Fuck off. Damon then pressed Arthur to admit that one of his employees, Isaac Gonzalez, had warned him about the tank leaking. And Arthur had to admit that he had thought that Isaac was just, you know, exaggerating.

Uh-huh. Classic misinformation. Oh, that Isaac. Yeah. Just full of shit. But later, Arthur was like, well, he did tell me about his concerns, so I had the tank cocked and painted, you know. The defense was, and this is a legal term boned big time but they did

their best it's a legal term yeah okay comes from the brits once again they focused on anarchists and so charles francis choate was Arthur, dearest, isn't it true that Isaac warned you that someone called the company and threatened to destroy the molasses tank? And Arthur was like, yes. And the defense was like, did you take it seriously? And he was like, yes, I had to go out and get police to guard the thing but then damon for the plaintiffs was a genius and he was like interesting so your employee was exaggerating when he told you about the leaks and the problems with the tank but when that same employee told you that someone called and threatened to destroy the tank then all of a sudden you trusted him completely and you acted immediately? Huh. Weird. Talk about a sticky situation.

Shut up. Jesus. The worst is that I never see it coming. The plaintiffs were able to establish that the steel company that made the steel plates for the tank had made them 10% thinner than they said they would. So it was basically Reynolds rap.

And thanks to Arthur's ridiculous testimony, they were able to prove that Arthur never had anyone with any kind of technical training examine the steel. Yeah. He had trusted the steel company based on their reputation alone. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. The plaintiffs also called an MIT professor, C.M. Spofford.

Why did people always stick to the initials? I don't know. Early in the... Maybe he had a terrible first name. It was probably Charlesles don't you think it was yeah so anyway b egan here we go cm spofford pointed out that yes the steel had been too thin and that the tank hadn't been held together with enough rivets then you know the dude got very sciencey and the bottom line was that molasses, super heavy. And on that particular day of the burst, the tank was super full, and it just couldn't handle it.

Yeah. I mean, that... How much more sciencey do we need to get? I don't feel like that was rocket science. I figured that out from the beginning. I feel like you and I could go up there. Well, you see, the problem was... This was held together with Reynolds red. Yeah, and bulk of... problem was this was held together with Reynolds Redding.

2.3 million gallons is a lot of gallons. By this point, this little six-week hearing was about seven months deep. Oh my gosh. The liability section was wrapping up, and now they were ready to discuss damages.

So the plaintiffs brought forth survivors who had been horribly and permanently injured. Oh gosh. Many people had been manual laborers and because of their injuries they could no longer provide for their families. Family members came forward and talked about their loved ones who had died in this just horrible way. Survivors had chronic pain and recurring nightmares. They didn't call it PTSD, but obviously they had PTSD. Buckle up. The defense had a real rough time with this section of the hearing.

I mean, what do you say when the other side has all these sad, injured people and grieving family members? Yeah, what do you say?. Yeah, what do you say? Brandy, what do you say? I don't know. Take a guess. I don't know! Take a guess.

Blame it on the anarchists. Okay. Here's what they did. They brought forth doctors who testified that the good thing about drowning in molasses is that you don't suffer. It's delicious. Shut up. Is that it? No.

Because you suffocate so quickly. Death by chocolate, am I right? No. I don't think that's something I'm going to say. She died doing what she loved. Oh, God. Here's another one. The defense also argued that the children who died in the molasses flood had been too close to the tank.

So it serves them right. Yeah. Holy shit. too close to the tank. So it serves them right. Uh, yeah. Holy shit. So they'd been trespassing, and so obviously their family shouldn't be eligible to collect any damages because a company shouldn't be required to make its work sites safe for trespassers.

Which I'm gonna argue, fucking attractive nuisance. If you've got candy dripping from the tank, you know kids are coming around. And also, can you imagine making this argument? That's ridiculous. The damages section of this hearing lasted two years. Holy shit.

There were that many people to hear from. Yeah. Ultimately, this six-week hearing lasted three years and one month. They'd called 920 witnesses, and the transcript was 25,000 pages long. Holy shit. This was the longest and most expensive civil lawsuit in Massachusetts history. So, at the end of three years, Auditor Hugh Ogden had to write his report. Again, it wasn't even a final decision, but it would have a huge impact

on whether it was settled, whether this would go to a jury trial, and definitely what arguments would be made at trial. Hugh took 10 months to review the previous three years of testimony. God bless this man. Holy shit. Finally, on April 28, 1925, 10 years after the Great Molasses Flood, Hugh issued his report. It was 51 pages. And buckle up, because I've got all of them right before me. When did he release it?

April 28th, 1925. That's not 10 years after the Molasses Flood. It was 1915. It was 1919. 1919? Oh, shit! I'm so glad you said something. I'm so glad.

Again, great at math. I'm just a supermodel who's great at math, guys. Two fun facts about me. Two fun facts. So here's the gist. He said that the defense's argument that the tank had been blown up by anarchists was horseshit.

He didn't really say that, but you get the idea. They hadn't shown any evidence to support that assertion. They hadn't found traces of a bomb near the accident. No one had seen any suspicious people near the tank at the time in question. Clearly, the tank had collapsed because it was poorly constructed. He said that the experts had disagreed on a lot of stuff,

but one thing they all agreed on was that the tank had not been built safely enough. He was also like, that Arthur P. Jell guy, real douche canoe. On the question of liability, he found in favor of the plaintiffs. Yeah. Now we move on to damages. He recommended that U.S. industrial alcohol pay $300,000 in damages. Adjusted for inflation, that's $4.4 million.

Mm-hmm. When you divide it all up. Yeah, that's nothing. It wasn't anything then. Yeah. It's not anything now. Yeah. Yeah, it's terrible.

Like, 150 people were injured. Yeah. 21 people died. 300 grand ought to do it. Wow. When people died. 300 grand ought to do it. Wow.

So, under this recommendation, the families of the people who died would get about six grand apiece. The author of the book, Dark Tide, The Great Boston Molasses Flood of 1919, not 1915, speculated that he thought the damages were low because of the earning potential of the people who died. Yeah. Wow. That's super shitty. Yeah. Um, but to this day, that's how we calculate that stuff. Yeah. Earning potential. Uh, the recommendation on distribution of damages was kind of weird to read about. People whose family members died instantly got less, but if their family members suffered more before they died, then the family got extra money. For example, there was this man who had been trapped under the firehouse,

and they were able to determine that he'd been there for hours before he died because he was able to keep his head just above the molasses. Yeah, and then finally he died. So they would receive eight grand. That ought to do it. Yeah.

Yeah. Which again, I feel weird about it, but this is how we calculate this stuff Yeah It feels disgusting though Yeah, I hate it Damon Hall, the lawyer for the plaintiffs Was very excited about the decision on liability

But pissed about the stinginess when it came to damages Yeah But he was like, you know what? That's fine, let's take this to a jury A jury will be way more generous But the defense was like, you know what? That's fine. Let's take this to a jury. A jury will be way more generous. But the defense was like, ooh, I hear you. I hear you. But could we not?

Yeah. So the two sides got together. And over the course of a few hours, they reached a settlement. U.S. industrial alcohol agreed to damages of $628,000, more than double what Hugh Ogden had recommended. Still not enough. Yeah, adjusted for inflation, that's about $9.2 million. But, I mean, the people had won. This was a victory in many senses of the word, because we actually learned some lessons from the Great Molasses Flood.

After the flood, the city of Boston required that construction plans be calculated and signed off on by engineers and architects, and it didn't take long for that to become the national standard. So I'm sorry, Brandy. If you're going to build that tank in your backyard, you can't just call it a receptacle and say fuck you to everybody else who lives around you. The Great Molasses Flood was a terrible tragedy, but it's a story about working class people banding together and winning the fight against big business. And although the story isn't, like, it's not super well known nationally, but nationally. Nationally. There's a T in there. It's super well known nationally, but nationally. Nationally. There's a T in there.

It's pretty well known in Boston. And for decades after the Great Molasses Flood, especially on a hot day, Boston's North End still smelled like molasses. Really? Yeah. Decades. Wow. The site of the tank is now a wreck complex, and it's owned by the city. So they've got a playground and a little league field and a small plaque to mark the site.

It reads, On January 15, 1919, a molasses tank at 529 Commercial Street exploded under pressure, killing 21 people. commercial street exploded under pressure, killing 21 people. A 40-foot wave of molasses buckled the elevated railroad tracks, crushed buildings, and inundated the neighborhood. Structural defects in the tank combined with unseasonably warm temperatures contributed to the disaster. And that, my friend, is a sticky situation. I didn't know, yeah. I didn't know.

Yeah, I didn't know anything about that. So I knew about the Great Molasses Flood, but I didn't know any of the legal stuff. I just knew. So that was the biggest class action lawsuit in Massachusetts at that time. And it was one of the biggest in the nation against a big business. in Massachusetts at that time. And it was one of the biggest in the nation against a big business. I was going to say, I didn't, I, I would, I don't know of any like hearings that lasted that long like that. That was crazy. Torture. Yeah. Okay. And I, I didn't look any more into this, but when they, when they got poor Hugh to sign on, they gave him, like, a small stipend. Hopefully they gave him more for three, well, I mean, it was more than three years of work.

It was like four years of work. Three years, one month of the hearing, and then ten months to write up the report. I do wonder what was going on with him when it came to damages. I mean, yeah, I think it's got to be what you said about the earnings potential. Even then, though, I mean, earnings is one thing, but like you two years of hearing all those stories, maybe you get numb to it. I don't know. Maybe. Oh, are you about to gross me out?

Ew, Brandy, no. Yeah, it's bad. Oh, cool. I just covered a terrible tragedy. But you laughed your way through. I will now laugh my way through this case. No, I won't. Okay.

Take it back. So I found this case through a video posted on Reddit. Just like on, you know, I just opened my Reddit app one day and it was like one of those today I learned things. Yeah, you don't have to explain how Reddit works. I meant it wasn't posted on our Reddit, Kristen, is what I was clarifying. Thank you. You mean our subreddit? I just pushed up my glasses. You wouldn't understand because although you love your glasses, you just don't wear them.

Fuck's sake. Annie Hooser. Jesus Christ. Cool. Cool. So I found the case. I'd never heard of it. Did some research into it.

Pieced together, you know, this. And then this morning, I found a podcast. Criminal Perspective Podcast. You're not allowed to plug any other podcast. Well, I used it for research, so that would be super fucking rude. Anyway, they interviewed the main person involved in this case, and it was great. I got to hear a firsthand account of it, so that was really awesome. Here we go.

Jody Plaché was only five years old when his father, Gary, first noticed that he seemed to have a real athletic ability. They'd gotten him into some kind of peewee football league. He had an older brother and a younger brother and then a younger sister too but um but who cares about that i'm sorry guys that's the fish she made but he just got kind of like lumped into it with his older brother he was a little bit too young to play but they let him play anyway and he really let him play football yeah by six years old he said he was playing tackle football okay terrible and in this interview he says i know no one would let their child do that today what year was this 1980 80 probably 1979 1980 great ideas all around okay continue um so

he started in kind of peewee football and then he moved up. He excelled at that. He started playing baseball, excelled at that, got into soccer, really enjoyed that. His big sticking point, he really wanted to play basketball, was not allowed to play. There were no leagues for him to play in until he was eight. So he had to wait to play that. Yeah, because, you know, basketball, you know, that can be a dangerous sport.

You're better off in the tackle football at that age. Oh, shit. Gary, Jody's dad, was, in general, just kind of a sports guy. He really enjoyed sports. He loved coaching his kids. He liked that sports gave his boys a way to kind of burn off all that pent-up energy.

But most importantly... liked that sports gave his boys a way to kind of burn off all that pent-up energy but most importantly i promise this is not really about sports i hope not because i just fell asleep most importantly he liked the discipline sports ingrained in his children um one day when jody was somewhere around 10 years old he got um he like fifth grade or so he got like a flyer at school about karate lessons he took it home took it out of his backpack and threw it directly in the trash he was not the least bit interested in taking karate lessons. But his brother, his younger brother was super interested. And this was something that Gary was really excited about because his youngest son had shown no interest in sports whatsoever. And so he was like, Oh, good. Now there's something for him to be excited

about a sport for him to be in. And so he signed all three of his boys up for these karate lessons lessons that seems like a punishment for that one kid who didn't want to do it yeah for jody yeah jody who wasn't interested at all so they go to these karate lessons um and again gary really liked that this that karate in general kind of has a focus on self-discipline and concentration. And so this was like also a sport. So very exciting all around. Something happened with this particular place that they signed up for lessons. They bought like a 10 lesson package through this flyer, but this instructor just kind of like skipped town. Oh. And so all of the people who had bought this package were then forwarded to this other martial arts guy in town this guy named jeff doucette he was like this 24 year old guy that had this karate studio he like lived above the studio he He kind of like eat, breathe and sleep. Eat, pray, love karate.

Yes. I think I've read that. It was his life. And so he reached out to these people who had been left high and dry by this other instructor. And he's like, I'll honor the rest of your classes. And so all of these kids kind of shifted to this other karate studio and started going to see Jeff. Was this some scheme the two of them were running? No, I don't think that they had any correlation with each other.

This guy just really liked karate and thought that he'd help out these people who had been screwed over by this other guy. Okay. And so Jody actually really liked Jeff. They connected pretty quickly. He really looked up to him. Jeff was like a black belt. I don't know, the highest ranking black belt. I'm not going to pretend to know all the different levels of belts, but.

That's okay, because I do. Okay, tell us, Kristen. Black belt is quite good. He wasn't just their karate instructor. He was also their friend. He took the kids out for ice cream. He hosted, like, movie nights. He took them to the skating rink.

He really loved hanging out with the kids. Brandy. Yes, Kristen? I'm not liking your face right now. He loves the kids. Stop it. Too much. But the parents loved this karate instructor.

Oh, God. They loved the way he interacted with their kids, and they all trusted him, including Jody's parents, Gary and June. trusted him including Jody's parents Gary and June they really saw him as more than a coach kind of like as a mentor and he really almost became like a family member to the Plaché family they welcomed him for dinner a lot remember he's on his own he lives at the karate studio he doesn't he's not getting home just a super normal a super normal guy living above the karate studio. Super normal 20, 24-year-old guy. Okay. Yeah.

And so they start inviting him over for family dinners. And Jeff has really, like, he's great with all the kids, but he's really connected on a different level with Jodi. Yeah, the victim. He's really singled jody out he's really he's giving him a lot of one-on-one attention um he sees a lot of potential in jody so he did this thing where like they'd go on a break in in class and there was like a 7-eleven right by the studio so he'd send all of the class off to the 7-eleven except for jody he'd ask jody to stay behind so that he could work on him a little like work with him kind of one-on-one make sure he was stretched out properly. He just saw really good potential in him. What Jody would

come to realize later, and it was much later in his life when Jody really realized what was going on at this time, is that Jeff was grooming him. Jeff had taken a very serious liking to jody and he was grooming him to become a victim um it started out with um extra stretches and like accidentally running his hand along his groin during the stretch and jody on this podcast talks about how what what he now knows jeff was doing was seeing if he would react to it if he would say anything he was testing boundaries pushing pushing pushing yep trying to get away with more and more and more. More and more and more. Yep. And Jodi didn't say anything. Jodi loved Jeff. He saw Jeff as one of his best friends. And he was old enough to know.

He was 10 or 11 years old at this point. He was old enough to know, you know, the difference between a good touch and a bad touch but he didn't want to admit that that was what was going on with this person that he loved how old was he 10 or 11 oh gosh yeah yeah you're being groomed it's totally different exactly yeah and so he didn't he didn't say anything. Of course not. In the meantime, Jody is getting really good at karate. They are now doing, like, very competitive, like, travel competitions. They lived in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

They were going to Houston for competitions. They were going to different parts of Louisiana, different parts of Texas, all with overnight stays in hotels. Yep. And one night in 1983, while they were in a hotel room, surrounded by a bunch of other boys who were part of the karate group, Jeff molested Jody for the first time. And he would continue to molest him daily.

Oh, my God. And then it escalated beyond that to rape over the next year. What's the difference between molestation and i think initially it started as yeah we don't need it i don't know yeah i don't think we need the details of it yeah it escalated okay to full-on rape of of jody yes And all the while, Jody never told anyone what was going on. Yeah. He had always heard his dad say, if anyone ever touched my kids, I'd kill them, stuff like that. And he didn't want anything bad to happen to his friend, Jeff. And there was a part of him that felt like he had done something of course to say that this

was okay or to make this happen to him and so he he never told anyone um and no i mentioned like this went on for a year like this daily abuse on jody one day in february of 1984 things escalated to the next level what's the next level jeff came to jody's house that day and asked his parents, I believe just his mother, I believe at this point, Jody's parents had separated. Oh, no. Jody's father, I believe, was having some battles with alcoholism, and his parents had separated at this time.

And so Jeff had showed up at Jody's house that day and asked his mother if he could borrow him for an errand. They'd be gone like 15 minutes. And this was a super common occurrence. Right. And she didn't think anything of it. She's like, absolutely. That was February 19th, 1984.

15 minutes went by and Jody wasn't back. An hour went by. Jody wasn't back. Did he kidnap this kid? He kidnapped Jodi and took him first to his mother's house in Port Arthur, Texas, and then to an uncle's house somewhere on the Texas-Louisiana border. And then they got on a bus and went to california in all jeff had jody for 10 days oh my god and his parents were obviously like the police were involved they were searching for him um for some reason on february 29th, Jeff allowed Jodi to make a phone call to his parents to let them know that he was okay.

There's some speculation about what the goal of this call really was. Jodi thinks maybe it was intended to be like a ransom call. Oh. If you ever want to see your son again you'll give me you know money whatever i don't understand the concept of racism so that was really helpful thank you you know we don't talk about kidnapping on this podcast ever so never before yeah so from this shady hotel room that they're staying at in Los Angeles, Jody is allowed to call his mother Collect. When she answers the phone, there's police everywhere in their house.

Of course. And so they're able to, because he called Collect, they're able to get the operator to just trace the callback. And they find out exactly what hotel they're staying at. Oh, well, geez. Okay. Yeah. Exactly what hotel they're staying at in LA. And like minutes later, the police swarm the place and they take Jeff into custody with no issue. Yeah. Jody's hair has been dyed black. He's wearing like different clothing than he normally would um what they find out is that jeff had been in trouble some kind of legal trouble with his martial arts studio something about he was running some kind of scam or not he was raping children it didn't have to do with sexual assault at that time no it was all a

financial okay he was all in financial trouble. He had a court date coming up. And so he'd skip town to avoid that court date. Smart, smart. Just taking Jody with him. Yeah, and kidnapping. We don't punish that very harshly. No, not at all. So this will work out just fine for him.

Exactly. But remember, he'd taken Jody to his mother's house and his uncle's house. Yeah, why didn't so he had some story about how the parents knew that he was with them and whatever um but his mother had supposedly like given him his brother's birth certificate so that when he got to LA he could assume his brother's identity and get a driver's license and stuff but and jody talks about this on that podcast that i mentioned he said that you know he thinks that the mother thought that he was just trying to skip those those charges for the fraud or whatever right didn't know about the i hope not um jody was immediately sent back home even after he was

you know rescued from this situation and taken into custody and protected he still refused to give up jeff for what he had done to him yeah they took him and they you know took him to a doctor and did an examination on him and they asked him why he had specific injuries to his body and he wouldn't tell them they were a result of him being raped repeatedly for a year of course and he was like yeah i don't know it's just always kind of been like that and it took took a doctor telling him, like, okay, we know what that's from. You know, you don't have to keep this secret anymore. Yeah. For him finally to tell them, okay, yeah, you're right.

But he said he felt protective of his abuser. Are you surprised by that? No. I mean, I think that that? Um, no. I mean, I think that that makes sense because, yeah, because that's what happens in an abuse situation. Yeah. But I think in a point where you are safe from them. You never feel safe. Yeah.

Yeah, because, I mean, don't you think that this Jeff guy was like, I'll hurt your family. So you would never feel safe yeah yeah even if you physically were safe right about all your family members what about your friends what about you know yeah so jody is back home jeff has been placed under arrest and he's you know they're trying to extradite him back to louisiana um and he said that his mother really was a big, a big help in him healing from all of this. She told him, you know, everything's okay. You can talk about this as much as you want, or as little as you want, you know, don't think that this reflects on who you are. And that he said that was a huge help to him to recover from what had happened to him because he felt a ton of shame about it.

His father took a very different tactic and became very obsessed with it and getting revenge and knowing exactly what had been done to Jodi. Oh, God. And this was this had a huge impact on their relationship for a long time. This had a huge impact on their relationship for a long time. Finally, at the beginning of March, Jeff was being extradited back to Louisiana to face charges there. He was flown into the Baton Rouge airport and police or I'm sorry, and news cameras were there to kind of record him coming back and like break this story about this kidnapping and whatever. And as Jeff Doucette was being guided through this airport by police and through this area where the news was watching, there was a man standing at a bank of pay phones. And as Jeff was led by him, this man turned around. Shot him.

Pulled a gun from his pocket and shot him directly in the head from like three feet away. And this was broadcast on the news whoa yeah just because people were totally unprepared for it so the cameras were rolling live and there was oh my god yeah um jeff dropped to the ground. People were shocked. They got the gun from the man who'd fired the shot. But that was fine because he'd done what he wanted to do, right? I mean.

Do you know who it was? Well, yeah. The dad. Yeah, it was Gary. It was Gary. And people were screaming and shouting, why, Gary, why? No, they weren't. They were.

They 100% were. what do you mean wow why did you murder the man who molested your child and kidnapped him yeah are people dumb i'm sorry it's a real it's a real stinker i can't imagine what was the motive here? Did he take some money? I mean, what? So Jeff had been shot directly in the head. He was taken to the hospital, but he succumbed to his injuries the next day. Yeah, it's a sticky situation getting shot in the head. I don't think that's a sticky situation, Kristen. It's kind of an explosive situation I'm sorry I just really you know

you don't care you don't feel bad for not for Jeff you know I'm not saying why why is what I'm saying I just you know yeah I'm not in favor of anyone being no obviously not

I'm not gonna like light a candle for this guy. So Gary was arrested, obviously. And he said that that day he was prepared to kill Jeff. And he assumed that he would be killed as well. Yeah. And he was ready to pay with his life. That was fine to get the justice that he thought his son deserved because he thought that the courts would be too lenient

and he never wanted to have to have his son worry about Jeff getting out of prison. Of course, his son would probably want him to be alive, too. Yeah. And by him, I mean the dad. The dad. Jody had a very negative reaction to what his dad did. Of course he did. He was very upset that he killed Jeff.

He said he never wanted Jeff dead. He just wanted him to stop molesting him. And he wanted him to suffer in prison. He knew he was facing life in prison. That's what kidnapping carries. Yeah. And he wanted him to suffer for the rest of his life in prison. Yeah. He wanted a fair punishment. Yeah. Because him being murdered feels like it's on him. Yeah. Yeah. This reminds this is like Maya Angelou. Do you know that story? No. She was being raped by I can't remember who it

was, but she was being raped and her family found out. And so I think her uncles murdered the guy. And then she didn't speak for like a year because she felt like by speaking up and saying what had happened to her, she had caused the murder of this man. so he for multiple reasons jody was very upset by it he didn't want jeff to die he wanted him to go to prison he wanted him to suffer he also didn't want all of the attention right this brought to him of course now everybody knew what had happened to him yeah he's already dealing with shame i mean mean, this is incredible. Yeah. Initially, Gary Plushay was arrested and he was charged with second degree murder, which already seems like a weird charge to me. Well, that's the sympathetic charge right there because that's clearly premeditated murder.

I agree. I mean, come on. But they also ordered a psychological examination of him. charge right there because that's clearly premeditated murder i mean come on but they also ordered a psychological examination of him and jeff's family spoke out at that time and said that they thought that gary deserved the death penalty for what he had done okay okay folks yeah sit down yeah his brother said that he, in fact, would like to be the one to flip the switch. I bet you would, douchebag. I mean.

Give me a break. How can you not see it from Gary's perspective? I agree. Gary obviously handled this poorly. Well, Gary handled this the way he wanted to handle it, not the way his son would want him to handle it, not in his son's best interest. But how could you, as the brother of Jeff, be like, that guy's a monster? Yeah.

That's weird, man. To me, that means that you just don't believe the story at all about the claims of abuse. That's what you'd have to be telling yourself. Right. They're making the whole thing up. There's no way my brother could have ever done that. Yeah, my brother was just a totally normal guy who dyed a kid's hair black and took him to California. Right.

Yeah. Totally believable. You know what? I hear that and I'm like i'm with them now so when he's undergoing these like psychological examinations they ultimately decide that in the moment he did not know the difference between right and wrong and they determined that it was a crime committed in the heat of sudden passion which meets the louisiana charge of manslaughter rather than murder. For the murder charge, he had initially pled not guilty by reason of insanity. Okay.

Yeah. And then underwent this psychological examination. And then that's when they determined that, yes, in the moment he didn't know the difference between right and wrong. It was a crime of sudden passion, which no longer meets the definition for murder. And they agreed to let him plead no contest to a manslaughter charge. He was sentenced to seven years in prison. Five years of probation. Wow.

And 300 hours of community service. The seven years in prison were suspended. Oh, my. He did not have to serve a day of prison time. And he'd been out on bond the entire time. They'd allowed him to do a property bond, which basically meant he had to just put up his house as a. Wow. Yeah.

No prison time? No prison time. Oof. Yeah. Hmm. What do you think? What do you think about that? Okay, so my initial take was, wow, you know, that really could send a bad message to people.

But then I'm thinking, well, what is the message really? Yeah. That if you molest someone's kid and kidnap them, you might get murdered and no one would care. I mean, I guess I'm okay with that. I agree. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, probably nobody should be murdering anybody, but also nobody should be kidnapping kids and molesting them. These are the rules. We don't make them up. Yeah. Gary's attorney actually said that they were reluctant to even take the plea deal because they thought they had a strong enough case that they could go to trial and he wouldn't have to plead guilty to anything. Um, yeah. Yeah. I can see that. It's still a bit of a gamble, but I mean, come on. What? And they didn't know prior to taking the plea deal that the sentence would necessarily be suspended.

Right, right, right. That was the call that the judge made at sentencing. Oh, wow. Was to suspend the sentence. The judge said there was essentially zero risk that Gary would reoffend. Yeah. Yeah. So everyone was on high alert. Right. Stay away from Garyoffend. Yeah. Yeah. So everyone was on high alert.

Right. Stay away from Gary's kids. Yeah. Sorry, that was a terrible joke. All the local molesters were just devastated. Jeff Doucette's brother, Roland, said, obviously we would have preferred that he would have pled guilty to second-degree murder. I've said from day one that he was guilty of first-degree murder, and he deserved the chair.

Justice was not served. Hmm. I agree on one point. He was guilty of first-degree murder. Yeah. I mean, yeah, probably. I mean, he definitely went there with the intention to murder him. And he did it.

And he did it. But the chair? I know. What's the, what, okay. At what point does it become justifiable homicide? That's what I'm wondering. Yeah. Right?

You know what this does become, though, is who cares homicide? Yeah. The judge didn't care. The judge didn? Yeah. The judge didn't care. Judge didn't care. The community didn't care. It doesn't seem like the prosecutor cared. So Jeff's brother, when he spoke to the media, did say at one point that he did worry about it going to trial because he felt like the public would be very pro-Gary. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, the public can be notoriously anti-child molester. It's one of the many flaws of the system. I'm sorry, I don't get this. Oh, man. Jody really struggled with what his dad did for a really long time. Of course he did. It took him a long time to come to terms with it and then one day he was walking with his dad and there was a moment where he thought for sure he

saw jeff doucette walking towards him oh my god and his heart began to pound and his palms began to sweat and the man passed him and he realized it wasn't him and he looked at his dad and he said oh my god for a moment i was positive that that was jeff and his dad looked at him and he said i was positive it wasn't gary suffered a stroke in 2011 that left him like kind of confined to a nursing home and he died of another stroke at the age of 68 in 2014 oh wow he died young yeah very young jody and his father had repaired their relationship by that time he um in this interview talks about how he came to realize that you know obviously it was flawed what his father did but he he realized that he did it because he thought that's how he could protect his son.

What do you? No, no. I don't. Well. I don't think that's why you do that, to protect your son. No, you do that because you feel that you have failed. Yeah, I totally agree. You are so up the wall angry and you're upset for your kid. You do that, and I don't say this with judgment, but you do that because it's the selfish choice.

I agree. Because that's what you as the parent. Exactly. Exactly. Because what if he had been killed? What if the police had pulled a gun because he had a gun and killed him that day which he totally expected to be the outcome or what if he had gone to prison for years for it none of those things protect his son right in august of 2019 jody plushay released a book called why gary why the jody plushay story and

it talks all about what happened to him but But it also talks about the grooming process that he went through. And on this podcast that I listen to, they talk about how it almost reads like a textbook in that portion. He wants it to be a guide to parents of what to look for for their children. Yeah. Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. No, I know what you're saying because his mom, there's actually a quote in one of these articles where his mom asked him

why he didn't go into more detail in certain areas. And he was like, because there's a fine line where I want to point out things that people need to watch for. Yeah. And that I want to make this be like a penthouse forum for a pedophile yeah yeah gary has never married and he never had kids he said that he didn't think that he could handle you mean jody i'm sorry yes jody i'm sorry yes jody in 1915 jody said what now jody never married and never had kids he said he didn't feel like he could handle having

kids after what he had been through as a child. Oh, yeah. His book is available on Amazon. It's available both in paperback and Kindle form. And he says he makes more money if you buy the Kindle version. All right, Jodi, we hear you. That video of the shooting in the airport is readily available online. Did you watch it? Yeah, I watched it. Yikes. What'd you think? Yeah, that was the thing that popped up on Reddit the other day that made me look into this case.

It's not super graphic. I mean... Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, you see Jeff get shot. Yeah. Yeah. Did you cry? I did not.

I did not. Am I being an asshole about this? No, I mean, I don't feel bad for a child molester. Right? I mean. No. It does feel weird to say who cares. I agree.

I mean, really. I agree. Who cares? It does feel weird to say who cares. I agree. I agree. I think it's interesting that he didn't serve any kind of jail time at all. Certainly is. Yeah. But I don't feel bad. I don't feel like justice wasn't served. I think if I were the jailer and, you know, he had to go in his little cell.

I might oopsies forget to lock it. Yeah. I mean, really. He would have been very popular in prison. You know what's so funny? Killed a child monster. When people say popular in prison. Oh, it sounds like a negative thing.

It's always said sarcastically. You said it genuinely. I mean, he would have been. He would have been a hero in prison. I feel like he's kind of a hero. So that's one of the things that Jody says is that anytime anybody hears about the case or he's still to this day, like even though this happened in 1984, this shooting happened in 1984. He Gary Plouchet is still talked about on social media as this like hero. Yeah.

Jody was trying to do like this like YouTube thing about like posting recipes and cooking videos and all of the comments would be about what a hero his father was. Oh, gosh. And I just terrible reminder. Yeah. You can't really move forward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. just terrible reminder yeah you can't really move forward yeah yeah yeah he said he hopes that his book helps parents maybe see those grooming steps along the way and i feel like that stuff is way more known now than it was in 1984 or way more talked about i hope so yeah i would sure hope so yeah yeah if a if a if a 24 year old man was trying to spend

a lot of alone time with my with my 10 year old son i'd sure think it was creepy as fuck yeah yeah yeah i i don't know i um this is this is making me, this is from a long time ago. This was like, I'd just gotten out of college. I didn't have a job, so I was trying to get like, you know, any job I could get. Like babysitting, whatever. And someone posted on like Craigslist or something that they were looking for a nanny. And so I applied for the job. Yeah.

And we got to the point where we were talking about pay. And I don't know if the guy was trying to talk me down or what, but he said something like, well, I just had someone who said that they would do it for $2.50 an hour. And I was straight up. Yeah. I told him, if someone wants to babysit your kids for $2.50 an hour, I would be concerned about their motives. Yeah. Did not hear back from him. He didn't appreciate your insight, Kristen.

Well, I mean, come on, dude. Holy shit. No kidding. Nothing more expensive than free. Whoa. All right. Should we move on? I think we should.

Let's move on to the Discord, where our lovely patrons have asked us questions that are not about child molesters. I hope not. I like how I'm the one that's like, ugh, no more child molesters, and I did the fucking case. Sorry, I apologize. It was an interesting case. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think it sucks. Well, you're the one who picked it.

I know! Courtney wants to know, who is the better driver? Oh, you are. You're not a bad driver. Um, I'm not great. Anna Faye wants to know, are you surprised that you have so many gay fans? I actually, I don't know that surprise is the right word. I love how diverse our fan base is.

We've got, yeah. I mean. Well, see, I'm very anti-LGBTQ. Jesus Christ. No, you know what what this makes me think of is like you know two probably two years ago all of a sudden i noticed on twitter that like a bunch of lgbt people started following us yeah and i was like oh man did some like big time like influencer promote us? No, I don't know.

I don't know. So it just happened. Yeah. We're like the Golden Girls. That's right. Monica Lynn VA says, for a few extra bucks, can I get DP to sign my welcome to the Supreme Court card? Absolutely not. How dare you ask that?

I go straight to his head. Oh, my God. How dare you ask that? It would go straight to his head. Oh, my God. You guys, he... So he walked in on us filming this video for the Patreon, and he was all too excited to plop his butt down and tell a few stories. Yeah, we were like, hey, do you want to jump in here? And he practically knocked the coffee table over, leaping to the couch. Who, me?

Okay. Okay. Ooh. We're leaping to the couch. Who me? Okay. Ooh. Emily Doodle Pat wants to know,

what's some advice you can give to a writer looking for an agent or advice about getting published? Well, I can't give you any advice on getting published because I've been rejected many times. But looking for an agent, so obviously, assuming you're writing fiction and you've already got your book, make sure it's as good as it can possibly get. And by that, I mean, have a critique group look at it, have beta readers look at it, like, Brandy's sister read it, my brother, I mean,

I just I had a bunch of people read it, not my parents, because it's too steamy for them. And they're too young, got feedback. And then once I felt really good about it, not my parents, because it's too steamy for them and they're too young. Got feedback. And then once I felt really good about it, I started sending it out to agents. And, you know, there are a bunch of sites and different ways you can find good agents. But make sure you've done your research on them and that they represent the genre that you've written for. And good fucking luck, my friend. I can only assume this is directed at you, Kristen. What?

But Do-Kat wants to know, what are your favorite running shoes? I run in Costco Court Classics. I mean, it's fashionable. I like Asics. No. They're not always the most stylish because they're kind of like running on a pillow. Yeah. But, I mean, I just think they feel the best.

Yeah. And I won't apologize, Brandy. Okay. I was asking for an apology a pillow. But, I mean, I just think they feel the best. Yeah. And I won't apologize, Brandi. Okay. I was asking for an apology. No, I won't. So. Ooh. M510 Baker wants to know, is it true Midwesterners are polite to your face but talk big shit

behind closed doors? I heard someone mention it and was curious. I feel like my family's the anomaly. Your family doesn't talk shit about anybody? No, we talk shit all the time, and we talk it to your face. To your face? Yeah. I was going to say that, yeah.

So that's, I feel like that's the Midwest politeness twist, is that you might say something behind someone's back. Yeah, it's not true politeness. But then you will also say it to their face. You have to do politeness. Back, but then you will also say it to their face. I mean, hmm. You know, it's hard to be this entrenched and try to analyze the culture.

That's true. That is true. We need an outsider's perspective. Norm, get up here. I know. I feel like in the South, I feel like they kind of tell you, but, you know, there's some sheen over it when they tell you. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know. We're a weird mix of folks. We are a weird mix. You're polite to your face. I'm polite to my own face, yes. No, I talk mad shit to myself. As we all do. Polite to anyone's face but my own.

Yeah, exactly. That's the real truth. Jordy Joe asks, if you could have only one dessert for the rest of your life, what would it be? Oh, another question that I do not like. Reminds me of the makeup question. Yeah. Yeah, we were asked, you know, if we could only have one item of makeup, and we broke out in hives just at the thought of it.

I feel like it'd have to be cake for me. Oh, no. What? No, you can't do that. Cake? Cake, yeah. It's too generic. I would have a specific cake? Yeah, you're't do that. Cake? Cake, yeah. It's too generic. I'll grab a specific cake. Yeah, you're trying to umbrella in a bunch of other desserts.

I'll pick a specific cake. I will pick German chocolate cake. Oh, okay. Good choice. Because it basically has a candy bar on top of it. Why are you acting like you've hacked this question? It's two desserts in one. Stop the tool! That's right! Beat that answer, Kristen. I feel like you've hacked this question. It's two desserts in one. Saw the tulip.

That's right. Beat that answer, Kristen. Well, I didn't realize it was a contest. It's our own thing. Um, I would also like to answer cake. What kind of cake? You made me pick a flavor. No, I guess maybe I'd do custard.

I don't, I'm not happy with the answer, though, and I'm the one who came up with it. I don't know, man. You know what? I get sad as if this is actually going to happen. It's not a real thing. Yeah, I need to calm down. Apple pie. I feel like I have kind of fucked myself a little bit, though, because as far as cakes go, German chocolate cake, a little on the dry side.

I could have picked a way better cake. Well, you can change your answer. No, I've already answered. You're not locked in. You're not locked in. I already locked my answer in. Okay, okay. I don't know.

You picked apple pie? I'm depressed. I mean. I'm so depressed with my answer. No, I would choose, you know, I'd choose the Razzle Dazzle from Sheridan's. And I'm sorry, Brandy. Yeah, I hate that answer. You don't have to like it.

I'm going to eat it. Okay, guys. Vanilla custard. A chocolate Bundt cake. Fudge. Yeah. And raspberries on top. Now, that's like a three-in-one dessert, ma'am.

It is kind of a three-in-one situation. So, suck on that. I will not. Nerferdis. Who wants to know what our favorite video games are? Here's the truth. Do I admit this on our podcast? What are you about to admit? I have never been favorite video games are. Here's the truth. Do I admit this on our podcast? What are you about to admit?

I have never been a video game person. However, we just got a Switch. I've been playing the shit out of Super Smash Brothers. It's so fun. I can only play one character. Which character? Meta Knight. I lose with everybody else.

It's basically evil Kirby. Yeah. Sounds like some user error going on here. Oh, it definitely is. I'm terrible, except for with Meta Knight. Yeah. So I think people already know that, you know, I used to think I was really good at video games just because Kyla really sucked at video games. Yeah, but you can't.

Now you're comparing yourself against Norm. You know what? That's true. Yeah. That's at video games. Yeah, but you can't. Now you're comparing yourself against Norm. You know what? That's true. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. He's the fucking gaming historian.

He's the gaming historian. He always makes me look to the floor when he enters a room. You guys, he's in such a bad mood right now because the pantry has almost killed him. He's got a, yeah. He's doing a reno job. Big home project. The man's a perfectionist. Three times yesterday I told him, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Did you think that

was supposed to help? I would be so pissed if you said that to me. As someone who's exactly like Norm, I'd be like, fuck off with that Kristen. Well, you know, he did want to launch me out of canon, I think. But let me tell you what he was doing, okay? Okay. It's a pantry. It's a small pantry. He has done a ton of work.

He took down, like, this nasty old plywood. He put up drywall. He's doing the whole deal. And yesterday he painted the inside of it. Yeah. And for whatever reason, he's not super confident about his painting skills. He did one coat, thought it looked like crap. I was like, it's fine.

It's one coat. You know, you'll do the other coat. Did the other coat. And he wasn't super happy with about a foot long section in one corner of a dark pantry. Yeah, that no one's going to fucking see. And the only reason he could see it was because he had a flashlight on it. So yes, I did say,

don't let perfect be the enemy of good. And I would have told you to fuck right off. Okay, but I mean, come on. Am I right or am I right? You're definitely right. But in that moment. So what he wanted to do, we might have to cut all this.

He wanted to prime it again and paint it all over again. That sounds like Norm. I told him he was being insane. And he said, am I? And I said, yes. And then we ate pizza. Very good. Yeah. And then we ate pizza.

Very good. Adjusted for Inflation asks, Brandy, would you rather walk through the spider house or do an art heist case for the show? I'd fucking do an art heist case, obviously. If you think I'm stepping foot in that fucking spider house, you're insane. Although somebody did say it just sold. Did you see that? Somebody tweeted us. I've got a much more important question. Anyway,

so I guess I'd do an art heist case and I'd hate every second of it. Here's my question. Okay. Would you rather pull off an art heist or try to, or spend an entire weekend in the spider house? A weekend in the spider house? that, or you got to go steal one of the Monet's from the Nelson Atkins.

Oh, God. Good fucking luck, lady. That is terrible because you know I'd pick the fucking spider house because I can't break the law. That's horrible. Okay, let me see. A week in the spider house. A week in the spider house? Yeah.

Or steal something from the- Steal a pin from the no no it has to be a work of art oh fuck yeah eventually you might become friends with the spiders oh god yeah i can't break the law so i'd have to go stay in the spider house can i be like in a bubble no i'm wear a bubble suit you don't want to offend, so I'd have to go stay in the spider house. Can I be like in a bubble? No. Wear a bubble suit. You don't want to offend the spiders. Oh, I want to fucking offend the spiders.

Oh, how many of you will be in there versus how many of them? I don't think you do want to offend them. Oh, God. Hey, have you ever been, I'm sorry, have you ever been stung by a wasp? No. I've never been stung by anything. Really? Yeah. Man. I mean, I already told you, I got stung by anything. Really? Yeah.

Man. I mean, I already told you. I got stung by a wasp yesterday. Where at? Right above the knee, through the pants. Wasps are assholes. They're like super aggressive. It's so funny because like all this wasp knowledge from your whole life, like, hits you after you get stung.

But, like, I was doing yard work. Yeah. And this bug landed on me. Yeah. And I thought I brushed it off very quickly. No, it stung the shit out of me. Then I realized, oh, that's a wasp. And, of course, was sting you they're not like peace out bitch no he was just keep stinging you yeah so i ran like hell screaming fuck fuck fuck all through the neighborhood

and then i ran inside the house and plopped down and pulled off my pants and that's the end of the story you have a mark yeah i have a mark and it still hurts today it It does? If I put all my weight on the leg where that fucker stung me, it hurts. Okay. What? If I poke right here real hard, it hurts. What do you mean? Okay. When I am walking, and I do, like right now.

What? Isn't that unusual to put all your weight on one leg? What are you doing? Wheeling around places? I mean, come on. on one leg? What are you doing? Wheeling around places?

I mean, come on. Wheeling around places? What does that even mean? Well, like, where you don't have any weight on your legs. What about when you're in the shower and you're like

scrub-a-dub-dub in one leg? Don't you lift one up? Yeah. Yeah, so that leaves all the weight on one leg, Brandy. Okay.

Brandy. All right. Bee Egan. What's your grossest habit? Oh, I'm perfect. Brittany asks, what's your grossest habit? I have no gross habits. You for sure do.

No, I'm, you know, just practically perfect in every way. I have a disgusting habit, but I don't do it regularly. She sniffs the crotch of her... Oh, God! Not regularly, guys. Don't worry. It's not weird. It's not regular.

It's just like once a week. I pick my toenails. Ew! No! But I won't do it if they're polished, so I keep them polished so that I won't do it. Yeah, keep the polish on those puppies. Yep. Yeah, it's gross.

I mean, I do all kinds of gross things all the time. I mean, the grossest one, who knows? Who's to say? Put a camera on me and you vote. What do you mean you do all kinds of gross stuff? I don't know. I mean, I just, I feel like I'm a, oh, you know what? Here's an example of me being gross.

Yesterday when my husband was, you know, working like hell on the pantry, he had headphones in. And as I was coming down the stairs, I belched tremendously. He heard it through his headphones? So here's what he said. He's like a California racist. He heard it through the grape. So here's what he said. He's like a California racist. He heard it through the grapevine. He took out his headphones. He goes, hey, is peanut okay? He thought it was peanut

barking. And I had to explain to him that I was disgusting. And he said, you're always beautiful to me, darling. Yeah. It's a storybook romance in this house, for sure, as you've seen many times. Last week with the mulch. This week again with the mulch.

The mulch is becoming quite a point of contention here at the Caruso household. Okay. If my body comes up missing. Norm asked me if I body comes up missing. So. Norm asked me if I'd get her feet. Yeah, so. Okay, you tell me. You tell me.

Weigh in, Judge Judy. Okay. Okay, so I've been doing a shit ton of yard work. You should see her tan lines. It's they are banging tan lines. Um, yeah, it's just a ton of work. I'm out there with my good friends, the wasps and the poison Ivy and, um, you know, Norman's doing a lot of stuff around the house, but he's just not doing much yard work. Yeah. And so, but like, and so I've wanted to mulch this one area where we have some flowers. I've wanted to mulch it for over a year. And Norman has told me not to because he wants to move those flowers to a different area.

And he doesn't want to have to pick up a bunch of mulch because he wants grass in that area, blah, blah, blah. Kristen mulched it anyway. And like a total badass. What was your guy's name? Gary what? Gary Bluchet. Much like Gary Bluchet, I followed my own rules. I did the same thing with some gravel that he had out in the driveway for a while. I just,

I took it and I put it places and he was unhappy for a little while, but then he got over it. And so today, after I put down that mulch, I was like, okay, I'm just going to tell him what I did. And really how mad can someone be when it looks this good? The answer is quite mad. Quite mad. Quite mad. Pray for me, everyone. Snapple, I will never tell. What?

Unless we do a book and then I include it in the book. Or if we do a bonus video, I'll show you that. What are you even talking about? You've got to use your words. Snapple wants to know what my secret is to my chocolate chip cookies. That should be a bonus video. Snapple, you personally sign up at the Supreme Court level. Are you already a Supreme Court member?

What if she's a Bob Moss and she drops down? Cost us three bucks. Yeah. You give away your recipe and you lose money. Three people to the Supreme Court level. And I will do a bonus video of my chocolate chip cookies and tell you the secret and please recruit them the way you would recruit for any mlm tell them that you know you are somehow making money by supporting this podcast on patreon you're richer than ever before

you quit your day job and what else do they tell you um that you i don't know your hair will be shinier and your skin will look better. That's right. And they always have vacation pictures. Always. You can go on this all-inclusive vacation for free. It was free. Brooke McF asks, did you guys ever get the cookies I sent?

What cookies? The sugar cookies with our designs on them. Oh, yes! Yes! Oh, my gosh, those were so cool. Did we not say thank you? You know what? We bragged about it on Facebook,

and I don't think we ever broke. We're assholes. We're assholes. Never send us cookies again. We took a lot of pictures of them, and we ate them. And our moms thought they were very cool yes hmm a maiman ate who later asks if anyone knows how to change their name in discord i'm sorry i don't know that you'll have to

talk to tech support but um she has or i'm sorry they ask what a favorite movie snack is my favorite movie snack is milk duds talk about a snooze fest. What? Milk Duds are delicious and they'll last the entire movie if you eat them properly. What? Just suck on them? Eat them properly. Like you've got some secret

method. I mean, you don't even watch movies. What's your favorite TV snack? Is that better? What do you eat when you're watching your stupid reality shows? Wow. Oh, my. You know what?

Just a bunch of German chocolate cake. That's what I do. And you're like, this is pretty good, but a little dry. A little dry. You know, if I were signing up to eat just one dessert for the rest of my life, I think this would be a bad choice. Oh, Alex Bobalix wants to know, I'm sober from soda for 24 hours. Any advice on how to stay strong? I'm jonesing.

See, I only ask because you and all your beverage knowledge. Yeah. I mean, what do you say? Wow, you're really screwing the pooch on this. You don't know. Oh, don't know i would say get some flavor enhancers for water so they make all those like little packets you pour in your water or those little like those those are weird to me i think they're weird too it kind of reminds me of like um the needles we use for peanuts insulin how how it like, you know, just to get the drop of blood.

Yeah. Well, boy, we're really. Put a drop of blood in your water. That'll shake things up. It'll be real weird. Sorry. Sorry, Alex. We failed you.

Yeah, I don't know. I like lots of alternative soda. Get yourself some. I like vitamin water zero. I like Gatorade zero. Those are things I drink frequently. I like a good hint water. Oh my gosh, you need to tell them what happened with my dad.

So DP was over here. He was getting ready to leave. Yep. And he got himself, he snuck to the basement he did sneak to the basement but then he like tripped so he fell on the stairs coming up i think i'm concerned he may have hurt himself because when he asked if he was okay it was a delayed answer hey he's fine anyway he got a hint water and uh i don't know we were talking about what were we talking about that i told him the cost of a hit water? I can't remember what it was, but you at some point were like, yeah, it's like $1.25.

Yeah, hit waters are like $1.25 a water. And the look on his face. I'm so familiar with it from my childhood. He reacted the way another person would react if they'd been shot. He stepped back and he goes, oh! Another person would react if they'd been shot. He stepped back. He goes, oh.

And I was like, Brandy, we don't tell him the price of things. Yeah. We don't. I apologize. Because I was like, oh, man, my mom loves Hentwaters. Yeah. And you may have just ruined. Oh, no. Ray, Ray, I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry. But yeah, he. So then he was arguing with me about the price of Dr. Pepper. He was trying to tell me that you can get a Dr. Pepper for 50 cents. And I said, where are you going that you think you're getting a Dr. Pepper for 50 cents? 1992. And he's like, you go over to Walmart walmart you just have a 24 pack and i was like that's not what we're talking about yeah you can't buy one can of dr pepper at walmart for 50

cents but see my dad would never go into a gas station a grocery store and pick a single soda out of those refrigerated machines because that's how they get you. That's how they get you. That's how they get you, Brandy. He's going bulk or nothing at all. Hmm. So anyway, in conclusion,

Brandy ruined Hint Water for my mom. I'm so sorry. Should we move on to Supreme Court inductions? Fuck yes. Okay, that's a lot of enthusiasm. Very excited. Somebody threw some shade at us today on Twitter. Man, oh man.

They think we've been doing books for too long. We have been doing books for a very long while, but, you know, we've got a long list to get through. There is a long list. Because we're super popular. Oh, good. So don't hate us for being popular. I hate that so much. That made me very uncomfortable.

Brandy, does it help that I don't really feel that way? I can do names. Oh, I'm sorry. You think you can handle the names? Kristen, did you just read through the list and see that they were all super easy names? And I was like, I can handle it. Okay.

All right, you take the names. Katina GD. Maggie Nelson's Bluets. Spencer. The Black Dagger Brotherhood Series by J.R. Ward. Cheyenne McMillan. The Coldest Winter Ever by Sista Soulja. Tika Moon.

Beauty Queens by Libba Bray. Annie. I don't like making favorites, so my favorite genre is suspense slash mystery. Genre? Did I say genre? You sure did. I meant genre clearly, Kristen. All right, Samantha G. The Good Girl. HHH. A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. Katie J. The Harry Potter Books. Coral P. Dante's Inferno.

Becca J. Anything by Carl Hyasson. Did you do this on purpose? No. Well, I mean, in a way, I did pick the easier one. Francesca L. Anne of Green Gables. Angela Faber. The Stephanie Plum Series by Janet Ivanovich. Kathy V.

Raise High the Roof Beams. What? What? Raise High the Roof Beams, Carpenter and Seymour. the roof beams. What? Raise high the roof beams. Carpenter and Seymour. An introduction by J.D. Salinger. Really?

Mariah L. I think that's Maria. Maria L. Why men love bitches. Welcome bitches to this. To this. Supreme Court. Thank you guys for

all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook. We're on Twitter. We're on Instagram. We're on Reddit. We're on Patreon. Please're on Twitter. We're on Instagram. We're on Reddit. We're on Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And head on over to Apple Podcasts.

Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. And then be sure to join us next week. And tell five of your friends about us. And then you'll be a Diamond Platinum member of this podcast. And if you tell 10 friends you're at the Emerald Supreme. You get a pink Cadillac.

I mean, not provided by us. By someone. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary.

And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the book Dark Tide, The Great Boston Molasses Flood of 1919 by Stephen Puello, along with reporting from History.com, NewEngland.com, and good old Wikipedia. I got my info from an interview with Jodi on the podcast Criminal Perspective, The Advocate, ESPN, The Los Angeles Times, The Associated Press, and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCpodcast.com.

Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.