Let's Go To Court! - 143: Ruth Bader Ginsburg & Identity Theft

Episode Date: October 7, 2020

Buy our merch! (Pretty please!) Ruth Bader Ginsburg was a trailblazer. When she entered Harvard Law School, she was one of just 9 women in a class of nearly 500 men. Later, in her legal career, she faced incredible discrimination. But Ruth didn’t let the douchebags get her down. She was whip smart, and a tireless worker. Her children remember her staying up until the wee hours in the morning, poring over law books, with a stale cup of coffee on one side of her desk and a box of prunes on the other. She kept working, and working, and working. She argued before the Supreme Court multiple times -- and won. She became a judge. And then, in 1993, she became the second woman appointed to the Supreme Court. Then, with Brandi recovering from COVID-19, Kristin’s sister Kyla fills in with all the energy of an eager understudy! Kyla tells us about a family in Portland, Indiana, who had a hell of a time in the 90s. It all started with their mail being stolen. They got a PO box, but their mail kept going missing. Their credit scores plummeted. Someone was after them. Someone was stealing from them. This went on for years. When Axton Betz-Hamilton went off to college, she thought she’d get a break from the paranoia that had taken over her family. She was wrong.    And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: The Documentary, “RBG” “Ruth Bader Ginsburg,” entry on oyez.org “Ruth Bader Ginsburg,” entry on Wikipedia “At Harvard Business School, Ruth Bader Ginsburg displayed the steel she’d be famous for,” by Asher Klein for nbcboston.com “Ruth Bader Ginsburg,” entry on History.com “A conversation with Ruth Bader Ginsburg at HLS,” video by Harvard Law School on YouTube In this episode, Kyla pulled from: Eh… she’ll fill this in soon! 

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And I'll be talking about an identity theft mystery.

Hmm. I think I've got a case of identity theft right here before me because you look nothing like Brandy. Yes, and that is something that needs to be mentioned because I was telling you right before we recorded that Alexandra, before I left, said, Mom, don't worry about trying to be Brandy. You just be you. So, guys, here I am, Kyla Pidzevin, no identity theft mystery. You know what? It was a really good thing

she said that because you were going to do this entire episode in a Brandy impression. That's right. And I think people would have caught on. I was going to give people oh God, can you imagine I was going to give people really bad hair advice and then Brandy just would have died. Cut your bangs yourself.

You're going to do a great job. Your bangs look like shit because COVID, you haven't gotten your hair cut. This is what you need to do. Get your scotch tape and just hack at it, girl. Brandy would murder you. I think she would. If you gave that advice to people, it'd be the end. It would be the end.

Which is an odd transition to where Brandy is this week god bless okay guys so if you didn't listen to the intro for our last episode where we rebroadcast you should know that brandy tested positive for covid which just sucks it does her dad, sister, and brother-in-law all contracted it. Luckily, baby London and David are okay. And everyone's going to be okay. It's going to be all right. Yeah. But it's just been scary as hell.

It's really wiped them out. You know, you hear about this. Well, they're all alive, Kyla. I mean, like. I just mean, yeah you know when you get sick sometimes and you just feel like you have no energy oh i see what you mean yeah that's what i meant no no no i just meant like you can tell from what they're texting and you know brandy's so optimistic and cheerful she's still that way she's a liar so she's a liar well she's like you know i'm i'm okay i'm okay and then casey the other day like i checked in on both of them and

casey was like well you know i think obviously brandy has the worst case of all and you're like what um hubba what yeah uh okay that's news to me i didn't know i i thought james must have had the worst case i did too i mean yeah it just yeah. It just, guys, it sounds really, really rough. And as Kristen said in last week's episode with the intro, you know, they were social distancing. They were, you know, but they weren't really distancing from that family pod, which I can relate to because, like, my family members were not distancing. can relate to because like my family members were not distancing. I'm not distancing from Kristen and Norm and we're just being, you know, locked down on our own. And so they just happened to get together on Saturday and that was all that it took. And so it's really kind of scary and humbling and a cautionary tale. And I'm just glad that they're, you know, continuing to get better slowly, slowly, but

surely. But we will make a key to the city for Casey. What city? Who knows? Will it be a literal key? Probably not. We could do, hey, we could do it like a cardboard key for Casey. Yeah, cardboard key. Because Casey, like the second she developed symptoms, she was like, that's it, I'm getting a test. And Brandi and I were planning to get together on Wednesday to record. Yeah. And we do keep a really good distance when we record. But holy crap, Casey's test results came back Tuesday night.

And so that was it for that. But, like, that's how close Norm and I got to catching it. And, of course, I would have given it to you. I would have given it to my kids and my husband. Yeah, it's crazy. This is scary shit. It is some scary shit. It is some scary shit.

Maybe we should stop going to all those parties and making out with all those people. You know, it's so fun, though. I love the concerts. I love the casinos. I love the slot machines. Try and get me away from the slot machines. I dare you. Try to get me to stop making out with random people. I dare you. I can't. I've tried. It was really awkward at that church that one time. I'm just not going to try anymore. Okay, now for real people, mask up, sanitize, anymore. Okay, no, for real people, mask up, sanitize, social distance. For real. For real.

Should we tell people about how we helped that woman who was being attacked? Oh gosh, yes. So this was like last week. We went on a run and so we're running and it was pretty late. It was too late. We shouldn't have been running that late. It was a little dark. It was a little dark, yeah. It was more about the dark factor, I was going to say. We were running together, so we were safe in that sense. But we're on a run, and all of a sudden we hear, ah! It was a blood-curdling scream. And we're running. We stop in our tracks, and we look at each other, and it was like, what do we do?

It was go time. It was go time it was like preparing for that moment our whole life oh my god pits sisters activate like our eyes glowed and so we we were we knew there was a park we just passed a park yeah it's dimly lit and it's like all right there is a woman being attacked in this park here we go we're gonna kick going to kick some dude's ass. Yeah. I don't know what you and I were going to do, but we were. We were going to do it.

Yeah. We were going to run circles around him while he was taking that woman. So we run and come to find out, guys, a few houses down, there were four teenage boys playing basketball. And one of them must have yelped out. One of them screamed. And we were there must have yelped out. One of them screamed. And we were there to save that boy. Yeah.

And he wasn't embarrassed at all that he screamed out and we came to save him. So, yeah. It was a humbling moment, I think, for everyone involved. Really. Yeah. That's the park where that guy started getting naked. What? What are you talking about?

I told you about this. This was like a year ago. I went on a run through that park. And, you know, I kind of was doing a loop. So I ran by him, and he looked a little... A little naked? Only a little naked? No, he was not naked at all.

But he just... I was getting a vibe from this guy. Like, I don't need to be around this guy. Yeah. So, you know, but whatever. I'm taking off. Yeah. But I was kind of doing the loop around that park because there was a water fountain.

And all of a sudden, he loses the shirt. He loses the pants. He's starting to take off. The underpants. Tequila makes her clothes fall off He's just having some tequila But no I remember I remember from when I told you

You were like oh my god Oh my god Because the guy was just getting naked in the park And you were like Was he getting naked for you? Right. I was like, I don't remember this at all. I was like, I didn't stop and ask.

Is this for moi? All for moi. So I'm so flattered to see a dirty penis. That's right. Gross. Well, do you think it was clean? I mean, I don't know. Maybe it was over in the waterfront. Gross. Well, do you think it was clean? I mean, I don't know. Maybe it was over the water fountain.

Gross. Sorry. I'm not sorry. We should probably mention, although I'm sure it's very clear, this is an after dark episode. Oh, my God, guys. It is so after dark right now. I mean, my children are in bed at 8 o'clock. It's currently 9.07.

It might as well be 1 o'clock in the morning. Well, and we were supposed to start recording literally like an hour and a half ago. And you and I had both had some drinky drinks with dinner. Yeah. And Norman, like, we're in this new setup, and so Norman was trying to get everything set up, and it was just not happening, so we just kept drinking.

Yeah, because what else are you going to do? Sit around and talk? Talk? Ew. No, you know what we did do? Norm regaled us with information of how Vin Diesel just dropped his single. So that's what we did is we were sitting, drinking, and listening to the Vin Diesel single. It wasn't as bad as you would think.

Hilah, how does it feel to be on kind of a momentous episode? I don't know if this is what you're referencing, but I did text you and Brandi today and said, happy international podcast day. Which is apparently a thing. It is a made-up holiday. I know, but I was like, oh, I need to text you. Okay, why is today momentous? You know, you're the only person who texted me about that holiday.

Wow, bunch of y'all. Everyone else is on my list. That's right. No, I was going to say, you guys, this is a big deal. We finally have merch. Oh, God, yes. If you are listening to this, it means that we officially have let's go to court merch and we are so excited about it yes um so we've got stickers that are just beautiful

rosemary trevally designed them so maybe this would be a good time for me too to jump in and say that you know we all myself, have been pushing for merch and have been excited for merch. And we were all so excited for merch that when we released, well, Kristen and Brandy donated like a sticker pack and the first set of shirts to the nonprofit organization that I work for, which is the Northeast Community Center. And guys, I know Kristen and Brandi talked about it on the podcast. The LGTC reaction was insane. It was just so fun to watch and so cool. And it's like, my gosh, if you don't know already

that your folks want some merch, take a look at this. Like everybody is going berserk. It was awesome. I'm so excited about it because we worked with some really great artists on this. Rosemary Trevally was one of them.

She did the vast majority of our designs. And she did a bunch of stickers for us. My personal favorite is the juvenile Bigfoot. She did a Bigfoot with a little backpack on and a little hat, and he's chewing gum. She did Bob Moss, the mob boss, and he's this tough-looking guy. So you can get these stickers individually or you can get them as a pack. And then, of course, we have T-shirts with our logo on them.

So if you guys are interested in that, we would be so excited to send it out to you. So Google it, because I can't remember the name of the website. It's probably just on the LGTC website, right? Yeah, it's probably letscotocourt.com, you know. Google. LGTC.

No, it's lgtcpodcast.com, I think. Yeah, that's what it is, lgtcpodcast.com. Merch. Merch. We'll put it on the social meds. Yeah. Yeah. First of all, thank you to Taylor on Twitter, who, after Ruth Bader Ginsburg

died, suggested we do some cases on the late, great RBG. And I saw that tweet, and I was like, Taylor, you can't tell me what to do. I'm not going to do just one case. I'm going to tell her whole life story. So buckle up. Buckle up. Here we go. Click. That's for you, Brandy. Yeah. First, thank you to the documentary RBG, available on Hulu. Also, Oye.org. What? Did you know that when the Supreme Court starts up, they go, Oye, Oye, Oye.

Is this like an old monk chant? What in the world? It's an old-timey chant for sure. Oh, God. Okay. So, yeah. O-Y-E-Z dot org. Okay.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The New York Times and Wikipedia. Okay, good. Picture it. Brooklyn, 1933. Joan Ruth Bader was born to Celia and Nathan Bader and you may be saying to yourself Joan

Joan I don't know her well yes you do because you see when little Joan got old enough to go to school her mother discovered that there were a bunch of other girls in the class who were also named Joan and so she told the teacher, hey, just to make things easier, you can call my daughter Ruth. Which is kind of a funny story considering what a troublemaker the notorious RBG would later go on to be. But anyway, young Ruth went to school and became an awesome student. By the way, her original nickname with her family and her friends still call her Kiki. No way. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. So I guess that's not as cool when her mom was like, you can just call her Ruth because they weren't calling her Joan anyway. So anyway, here I am

shitting on my own story. Okay. It's cool. Continuing. Ruth loved to learn. She was super dedicated to her studies, and that was thanks in large part to her parents. Her dad, Nathan, immigrated from Russia, and when he was growing up in Russia, Jewish kids weren't allowed to go to school. Oh, my God. So despite the fact that he was highly intelligent, he'd never gotten the formal education that he wanted or deserved. And Ruth's mom, Celia, was this incredibly bright woman with who knows how much potential, but she'd had her opportunities cut short because when it came time for her to go to college, the family sent her brother instead. And Celia went to work to help finance her brother's education at Cornell. Wow. So Ruth's parents were these like super, super smart individuals who'd been denied their shot at higher education. So when it came to their own daughter,

they were bound and determined to give her the opportunities that they hadn't had themselves. Celia, in particular, really wanted her daughter to succeed. She knew that with the right support and enough trips to the library and enough focus on education and enough piano lessons and enough strict discipline, her daughter Ruth would one day become a high school history teacher. Oh my gosh. It was a huge dream. It was a huge dream. It probably was. It really was.

Yeah. And Celia felt confident that it could happen. And Ruth did too. She worked and worked and worked and studied and studied and studied. And her mom kept drilling into her these lessons. Number one, be a lady, meaning don't waste time on useless emotions like anger. Number two, be independent. Don't wait around for Prince Charming to come save you.

You need to save yourself. Celia instilled these values in her daughter and was able to see Ruth become an excellent student. But then when Ruth was a freshman in high school, Celia got cervical cancer. Ruth spent a ton of time at her mother's bedside studying just because it made her mom so happy to see her studying and working on her education. And the work paid off. Ruth did so well in school that she was selected to speak at graduation. But the day before her high school graduation, Celia died. Oh my gosh. It was horrible. But the silver lining was that Celia died knowing that her daughter was on the right track. Ruth was headed to Cornell. Ever heard of it? At the time, Cornell

had a strict rule. Their university was specifically designed to be a very elite sausage fest. Was it all dudes? Well, no, obviously not. Well, that's why I was confused. Like, but it's just mostly dudes. Yeah. Yeah. Like the best sausage fest you've ever seen. Good for you. Salamis as far as I could see, Kyla. Please, Louise. So in the 1950s, Cornell had a rule. There could be only one woman admitted for every four men.

What? That was literally a rule? Yep. Oh, my god. So to be admitted as a woman was a big deal and came with a lot of pressure. But you know, there's a

silver lining to everything including sexism. Silver lining. Yeah, the thing about that quota was it sucked for women who were trying to get into college. But once you got there, whoo! Boys, sometimes a girl just needs one.

Boys, take them into home. That's a Britney. That's a Britney Spears song. It was not a very popular one. That was a B-side. That was bringing you the B-sides here tonight. Yeah, so if you guys know that one. Good on you.

You had a good time in the early 2000s. So her first semester of college, Ruth went on dates, dates, dates, dates, dates, dates, everybody. And she had fun, fun, fun until her daddy took her T-bird away. I knew you did it. And no wonder she went on dates. Ruth was gorgeous. Okay. Have you seen pictures?

No. Okay. Google Ruth Bader Ginsburg young. You will be blown away. I'm so excited. I have not. Oh, okay, Miss Ginsburg, if you're nasty. So she's this cute little petite thing.

Of course. With big expressive eyes. Yeah. And a thick head of dark, lustrous hair. Oh, my gosh. She's this cute little petite thing. Of course. With big expressive eyes. Yeah. And a thick head of dark lustrous hair. Oh my gosh. She's gorgeous. Yeah. Oh, that's so fun.

I'd never seen her young before. This one's on TMZ. What? Scanless. Oh, she was a twirler. Yeah, she was a twirler in her high school twirl team. Twirl team. Okay, I love a twirler in her high school twirl team. Twirl team. Okay, I love it.

I love it. Yes. But the dates that Ruth went on weren't that great. The thing about dudes in the 1950s was that they weren't exactly looking for a peer. Mm-hmm. They didn't want to date their intellectual equivalent. And they sure as hell didn't want to date someone who was way smarter than they were. Yeah.

Which she definitely was. For real. But do not despair, Kyla. I see the tears in your eye. Romance was in the air. Because when Ruth was 17, taking classes at Cornell, she went on a blind date with an 18-year-old guy named Martin Ginsberg, who will henceforth be known as Marty the Stud. Ooh, Marty the Stud was

a real wild dude. He was way ahead of his time. You see, he had this nutty idea that a woman's dreams and ambitions were just as important and valuable as a man's dreams and ambitions. He was, how do we explain this? Such a tough concept. A feminist? Yes. You know what, I actually had a long thing about being secure enough with himself. But yeah, that's what we call a feminist.

Yeah. This was pretty amazing for Ruth. She said, he was the first boy I ever knew who cared that I had a brain. Most guys in the 50s didn't. Hmm. So Marty and Ruth started dating

and they were kind of an interesting match. They were both, you know, good looking, super smart. But Ruth was like so quiet and so serious. She was this deep thinker. And Marty was like the life of the party. He was hilarious. The dude could talk to a stump.

What I'm trying to tell you is that they were the perfect match. So Ruth was dating Marty the stud. And at the same time, she was working on her bachelor's degree in government. And she was studying government at a really interesting time. This was the era of McCarthyism, aka the Red Scare. Can you tell them about that? People were really scared of communism. Russia, and Senator McCarthy had it out for people and he was coming for them. Oh man, I was really trying to put you on the spot, but yeah, that's basically it. Yeah, don't ask me to say more, but that's all I got. So here's the deal. It was a time after World War II when Senator Joe McCarthy was like, there are commies everywhere.

I think you're a commie and you stop right there. You're a commie too. And he and his merry band of lemmings threw accusations at all kinds of people. They didn't have much evidence to speak of. But you know, who could bother to give a shit about that? They called all these people to testify in front of Congress and they threw wild accusations at them. And one of the things that young Ruth noticed was that during these very un-American hearings, the people who were standing up for what was right were the attorneys. They were the ones defending people. They were the ones fighting back. were the ones defending people. They were the ones fighting back. And a fun fact, a big reason that McCarthyism had to peace the fuck out was because the Supreme Court at the time was like, no, dude,

we're done with this. So Ruth was watching all this and she saw the roles that the attorneys could play in fighting what was right. And she took that little lesson and she tucked it into her poodle skirt. And in June of 1954, she graduated from Cornell as the top woman in her class. Whoop, whoop, whoop. A month later, she and Marty the stud got married. From there, the young couple who'd been born and raised in Brooklyn did the totally natural, predictable thing. What is it? They went to Niagara Falls for their honeymoon. They moved to Oklahoma. Oh, God. So I saw this a couple different ways in

certain different places. One is that Marty knew he was about to get drafted. He was in his first year at Harvard Law. And he's like, I don't want to do the draft. So he enlisted and you know, his first year at Harvard Law. And he's like, I don't want to do the draft. So he enlisted and, you know, he got called in for duty, basically. So they had to go to Fort Sill, Oklahoma. So they moved there and Ruth got a job in the Social Security Administration and she became pregnant. And for the high crime of being a pregnant woman, the Social Security Administration gave her a demotion. Oh my gosh. Which was totally fine and not at all illegal. Right, right. Yeah. Well, she deserved it getting pregnant. Oh my god. How could she? The following year, Marty and Ruth got the hell out of Oklahoma and Marty resumed his studies at Harvard Law. But here's the crazy thing.

Ruth decided, you know what? Even though I'm a woman, even though I just had a baby, I'm also going to go to Harvard Law. This was, to put it mildly, simply not done. When she got in, she was one of nine women in a class of about 500 men. Oh, my gosh. But don't worry. The dudes were all super cool and nice.

It sounds terrible. I mean, I'm so appreciative of her, but that sounds awful. Yeah, it sounds absolutely awful. And they were awful to her. Yeah. At one point before classes started, the dean of Harvard Law, Erwin Griswold, invited all nine of the women students to his house for dinner. Oh, God. I'm cringing already.

Sounds lovely, doesn't it? No. What happened? Over dinner, he said such gems as, What are you doing at Harvard Law School taking a seat that could be occupied by a man? Oh, God. Which he followed up with, I'm sorry, I'm in a terrible mood because I fell on my micropenis earlier and now it's real banged up. Oh, my God.

That has to be uncomfortable. Oh, my God. That has to be uncomfortable. I think we can all learn a lot here because, you know, sometimes people say things that make you mad, but you don't know what's going on. You don't know if they just banged their micropenis. You don't know if everybody has a story. I shoved my micropenis in. You know, one of my favorite, was it you that shoved me one of, like, my favorite YouTube videos, YouTube video comments where comments where it was like one of those stupid instructional videos? Yeah.

How to put an apple against a wall. One of the comments was, my dick got caught in a ceiling fan. It was instructions unclear. My dick got caught in a ceiling fan. Okay. Yes. So Ruth didn't know how to respond to the ceiling fan. Okay. Yes. So Ruth didn't know how to respond to the dean's horrible question. So she just sort of mumbled that by going to law school, maybe she'd be able to understand her husband's work a little better.

And maybe one day she could get some part-time work for herself. I'm including that in here because I think sometimes when we see these like larger than life activist figures, we're like, oh my gosh, they were always, you know, this spitfire, blah, blah, blah. No, you do what you do to get by in these situations. And when you're at the dean's house and he's just banged his micropene, say whatever you got to say. Yeah. I mean, we've, yeah, we've all been there where we have said things just to get through the situation. Yeah. And maybe she meant it because that alone would have been revolutionary. It really would have. What she had done was revolutionary

enough to just go to Harvard Law School as a woman. She didn't need to do anything else to be revolutionary. Yeah. Here's a fun fact. The next year, our buddy Irwin, who I can tell you like a whole lot, was appointed to serve on the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. Oh, God. I'm sure he just did great. That's literally what I have next. I have. I'm sure he did a great job.

Oh, God. But Irwin wasn't the only douchebag at Harvard. One day when Ruth tried to go to the library, a staff member from the university told her she was not allowed in. Women weren't allowed in that library. Stop. It was hard. Being one of so few women, she was constantly on display. If she got called on and she didn't have the right answer, she wasn't just failing herself. She was failing all women everywhere who had just recently been allowed to attend Harvard. Most times, professors just refused to call on the women students. But sometimes they did. And sometimes they did it as a joke.

But she kept working and kept studying. And at 4 p.m. every day, she'd go back home to take care of her infant daughter. This was a very hectic, stressful time. All of her time was super valuable and very precious. When she was studying, she was studying. And when she was at home with her baby, she was at home with her baby. And once that baby went to sleep, she went right back to studying. Meanwhile, Marty the stud was walking around Harvard being Ruth's cheerleader. He was like, yep, yep, pretty sure my wife is going to be on law review. Yep, I can feel it.

It's going to happen. Just you wait. She's going to be on law review. Who has two thumbs and a guy? I'm sorry. Who has two thumbs and a wife who's going to make law review? This guy. Stumbled over my own joke there.

That's right. Marty was ridiculously optimistic. No woman had ever been on Law Review before. And also, it's really fucking hard to be on Law Review. You had to be in the top 25 in your class. You had to be smarter than everybody at Harvard. Some call it the Harvard of Cambridge. It's a big deal.

But here's the thing. Marty was right. In her second year in law school, Ruth Bader Ginsburg became the first woman to work on the Harvard Law Review. I believe another woman was actually selected, too. Oh, that same year? Mm-hmm. Nice. So for all you trivia nerds out there.

Brandy, Casey. Pay attention. First woman on the Harvard Law Review? Ruth Bader Ginsburg. First black person on the Harvard Law Review? Who is it? Oh, God. It's, oh, my God.

You may have heard of him. I don't know. What you said, a black woman. No, black person. A black person. He was the first black person to be on the front. Please, for the love of God, tell me somebody did it before Barack Obama. Nope, it was Barack Obama.

Oh, Jesus Christ, what's wrong with us? Okay. So many things. Let's not get into it. Back to the story. Things were going pretty well. Ruth and Marty were young parents. They were in Harvard Law.

And then Marty got testicular cancer. These were the days before chemo, so he had to undergo just a ton of radiation. He could barely eat. He couldn't attend classes. I think he did like two weeks of the spring semester. That was it. Oh, my gosh. He could barely sleep.

And Ruth, who had already lost her mother to cancer, couldn't imagine losing her husband too. So there she was, faced with this tremendous challenge, and she rose to it. By this point, their daughter was two years old, and Ruth had her own law degree to worry about. But she had to help her husband too. So she organized it so that his friends would drop by with notes from the classes that he couldn't attend. And she typed up his notes for him and helped him as he battled cancer. And some of the men's wives and girlfriends also pitched in to type up notes for him. This was incredible for a number of reasons, one of them being that law school is super competitive. I'm sure at Harvard it's even more so.

But Ruth and Marty's friends were rallying around them and actually helping them. And that semester he got the best grades he ever got at Harvard. Oh, my gosh. So while Marty was battling cancer, Ruth was getting up, going to class, studying as hard as she could, raising their two-year-old. And it was around this time that she developed the insane work ethic that she would later become famous for. So as adults, her kids have said that they have memories of waking up and seeing their mom at a desk three, four, five in the morning, reading cases, working on briefs

with a cup of coffee on one side of the desk and a box of prunes on the other. What? Oh, God. And a toilet underneath. What the hell? I know. Prunes. We just call that the colon blow. If I were RBG, I'd be like, don't tell people about that. I know. Oh, God. Explains why she was so little. I know. I'd be just a little twig. So she would work like crazy

through the week, running on very little sleep. And then on the weekends, she would just crash and do it all again the next week. The woman could work. So that year, thanks to help from Ruth, Marty graduated from Harvard Law and he beat cancer. And he got a job offer from a huge firm in New York City. Ruth still had one year left at Harvard, but with Marty having just recovered from cancer, they obviously wanted to stay together. So she transferred to Columbia. It was tough, though, because the first year of law school is the hardest. You know, she'd done two. She'd made law review.

And she wanted her degree to come from Harvard. Right. So she went to Dean Irwin Griswold and asked him, hey, I have to transfer to Columbia, but I did my first two years here. I made law review. Could I get a degree from Harvard? And he said, no. And she said, well, you know, so-and-so transferred in after their first year from, I think it was like Penn State or someplace. Yeah. Transferred in and they're getting a law degree from Harvard. Isn't that kind of the same deal? The first year is the hardest. No. Oh my gosh. That was a really hard pill for her to swallow. But Ruth wanted to keep her family together. So she transferred to Columbia, and of course, got on their law review, and graduated at the top of her class. Go girl.

Technically tied for first place, but you know, still. Whatever. But once she graduated, got on their law review, and graduated at the top of her class. Go girl. Technically tied for first place, but you know, still. Whatever. But once she graduated, no one wanted to hire her. Like, literally no one. Oh my gosh. It didn't matter that she'd gone to Harvard and been on the law review. It didn't matter that she'd gone to Columbia and been on their law review. It didn't matter that she'd graduated at the top of her class. She was a woman, she was Jewish, and she was a mom.

And therefore, she was not a desirable hire. It's funny because she talks about being a mom, which I hadn't really thought about how that would be a source of discrimination. But she said like, the idea was like, if you were a mom, why are you even here? You need to be at home with your kids. Right. Yeah. Which is what I said to you tonight when you showed up. Why are you even here?

Why are you even here? But Ruth was well-connected. She had all these friends from law school, and some of these male friends tried to advocate for her. They'd go tell their law firm, hey, of these male friends tried to advocate for her. They'd go tell their law firm, hey, I've got a great candidate. Ivy League. Law review. Super smart.

She. But the second they said she, there would be a man in a corner with the record scratch. And back in those days, everybody was pretty blunt about it. They'd just be oh we don't hire i'm a huge sexist oh you see the problem is the problem is we don't hire the ladies here see and you know that was fine that was all perfectly legal by this point it was 1960 she couldn't get a job at a law firm so she tried to get a clerkship with a judge. She got a really good recommendation from one of her professors at Harvard. This particular professor was super well respected. He would later become dean of the law school. He wrote to Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter and made the case to hire Ruth.

Felix Frankfurter and made the case to hire Ruth. But Felix was reluctant. He said, does she wear skirts? What? I can't stand girls in pants. That is a serious quote. That's the number one thing you're most concerned about, dude? And the people who were advocating for Ruth were like, dude, yeah, she dresses fine.

She's smart. You would be a fool not to hire her. And Felix was like, joke's on you. I'm a huge fool. And he did refuse to hire her, and he wouldn't even grant her an interview. Wow. And here's a fun fact that might make your head spin. Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, who refused to even interview Ruth Bader Ginsburg for the high crime of being a woman, was one of the founders

of the ACLU. Really? Which proves that people are complicated. People, girl, yes, people are not, you know, there's a gray to everything. Wow. I'm going to have to research that guy. So I clicked on him because I was like, well, I've got to know more about this terrible person. And then, oh, one of the founders of the ACLU. I'm telling you. Yikes-a-roo. Well-intentioned people, still toxic. I mean.

Well, he didn't want to hire a woman in pants. Ew. Pants. Can you imagine? Gross. Don't talk to me about. in pants. Ew. Can you imagine? Don't talk to me about. That's why I don't wear anything. I show up to every job just full beef hanging out.

Oh, God. Oh, God. No, we get that skirt suit. Skirt suit. That's right. Skirt suit. So once again, Ruth had hit a roadblock. But then one of her professors from Columbia, who was super well respected, was like, okay, let me use my connections to help you out.

So he reached out to Judge Edmund Palmieri of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York. And Judge Ed loved Columbia law students. He only hired Columbia law students. They were simply the best. Bow, bow, bow, bow. So the professor did the usual song and dance. Ruth is great. You got to hire Ruth.

Ruth, Ruth, Ruth. Blah, blah, blah. And the judge was like, but I don't want to. And the professor had no choice. He had to channel his inner Bob Moss. He said, here's the deal. If you don't hire her, I am never going to recommend another Columbia student to you ever again. Oh, my gosh.

But if you do hire her, and for whatever reason she doesn't work out, I will find you a replacement clerk. And the reluctant judge reluctantly agreed, and he lived his whole reluctant life, and the thing he's most well-known for doing in his life is having Ruth Bader Ginsburg as his clerk for two years. Mm-hmm. But anyway, at the same time,

Ruth was involved in the Columbia Law School project on international procedure. And for that job, she ended up doing, like, a ton of research about Sweden. She learned Swedish. She took trips to Sweden. She ate Swedish fish by the fistful. Yes, when you're at Ikea, she was at Ikea.

She was always at Ikea. She was always at Ikea. She was always at Ikea. And once she was actually in Sweden, she was like, holy shit, this society is so much more advanced than America's. She went to Lund University and saw that 25% of the students there were women. What the hell? What the hell? What the hell? And one of the judges she followed around was a woman. And not just that, the woman was eight months pregnant.

She hadn't been fired. She hadn't been demoted. She was still working as a judge. And that's when Ruth Bader Ginsburg's head exploded. And, you know, then they had to piece it all back together. Until that point, Ruth had never really thought that much about sexism. I mean, when you're swimming in it, it's hard to acknowledge it. Yeah. What's that thing about fish don't know what water is? You know. Yeah, yeah, you know. But that experience got the gears turning.

Yeah, yeah, you know. But that experience got the gears turning. Around this time, she decided that she was going to become a law professor. So she applied at Columbia. Got rejected. NYU. Got rejected. Fordham. Got rejected.

Finally, she got a job teaching at Rutgers Law School. This made her one of roughly 20 women in the entire United States who were law professors. What year was this? 60s. 60s, yeah. But because there are zero purely good stories here, you should know that when Rutgers hired Ruth, they told her they weren't going to pay her as much as a man because her husband had a good job that paid well. Oh.

Yep. Oh. Then, according to the New York Times, the guys who had hired her stood up, but they stood up just a little too fast, and they banged their micro-penises. Oh, my God. It's weird how that keeps happening. Oh, my God. Their poor micro-penises.

I know. Just put them in a little Band-Aid. Let's take a brief moment to discuss what life was like at this point in American history. This time in most states, it was totally fine for an employer to fire a woman for getting pregnant. Banks could require that a woman who was applying for credit have her husband or father there to co-sign. And in some states, it was perfectly legal for a dude to rape his wife. Mm-hmm. But things were changing. The women's movement was happening.

Women were protesting. Women were demonstrating. And all of this was a little flashy for Ruth. Ruth was not the type to do a big demonstration. She was much more comfortable at home with her books and her prunes. But when her students at Rutgers asked her for a class on women and the law, she agreed to teach it. She began to study gender discrimination and she was like, whoa, how have people been putting up with this? How have I been putting up with this?

This was the turning point. This was the big awakening. She co-founded the Women's Rights Law Reporter, which was the first law journal in the U.S She co-founded the Women's Rights Law Reporter, which was the first law journal in the U.S. to focus exclusively on women's rights. She co-authored the first law school book about gender discrimination. And then in 1972, she co-founded the Women's Rights Project at the ACLU. And the following year, she became their general counsel. And I'm going to have to ask you to buckle up because this is when stuff really starts to happen. Clickety, click, click. Ruth studied the work of Thurgood Marshall, who had championed so many civil rights cases. And she admired that he'd been so strategic in which cases he took on.

That's what she wanted to emulate. She wanted to work slowly and methodically. She wouldn't take a case to the Supreme Court and ask the court to end gender discrimination right that instance, which, of course, was what a lot of people wanted her to do. Instead, she wanted to tackle certain statutes and build and build and build on victory after victory after victory until the Washington Monument got turned into a vagina. Do you ever think about all the buildings that are just like penis replicas?

So many. Guys, Google World War I Memorial Kansas City. For real. Check out that image search. Her first argument in front of the Supreme Court was Frontiero versus Richardson. In that case, a woman named Sharon Frontiero joined the military because she needed money. And they'd been advertising to women. It was this new thing.

Oh, you can join the military. And she was fresh out of college. She'd just gotten married and she'd gotten this job in the Air Force, and immediately she noticed that all the married men she worked with got a housing allowance. But she didn't. She assumed there was an error. So she went to the pay office and was like, Hey, I think I'm supposed to be getting a housing allowance.

And the guy was like, no, you're not. His attitude was, you're lucky that we let you in the military at all. Don't come in here asking for a housing allowance. Sharon was taken aback. But she was an optimistic lady. And she was like, well, that guy's obviously an asshole, but he's just one asshole. So she went around and asked and asked and asked, and turns out everyone was an asshole because everyone said the same thing.

You're a woman. You don't get the housing allowance. But Sharon was still optimistic, and she was like, well, shit, I guess I have to hire an attorney, and he'll write a letter, and this will all get straightened out. And so she hired an attorney attorney and the attorney was like, okay, well, yeah, I mean, I can write him a letter, but it's not going to do the trick. What's happening to you is not right, but it's legal. What needs to change is the law.

So Sharon Frontiero sued the Air Force. The case went to the district court in Alabama, and of course, Sharon lost. But when it was time to go to the Supreme Court, she had the notorious RBG by her side. But here's the truth. Ruth was terrified to address the Supreme Court. She was scheduled to speak in the afternoon, but she didn't eat lunch that day because she was so certain she'd throw up if she did. So she got up there in front of the all-male Supreme Court, and she spoke to them

about this strange new thing called gender-based discrimination, which was a thing that none of the justices had ever heard of or thought existed. I can't imagine. In Alabama, no less, you said? Well, this was in the Supreme Court. Oh, it was like, oh, not just the state Supreme Court. We're talking big time. Big time. It's the big leagues.

Oh, my gosh. She spoke and spoke and spoke. Her argument was powerful. It was about women's place in society and systemic sexism. And those poor old white boys on the Supreme Court were like, no, we just showed up here to talk about a little statute. This lady's really bringing it. She quoted women's rights activist and abolitionist Sarah Grimke when she said,

I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off of our necks. Mm-hmm. She was a Quaker. Mm-hmm. Ruth was like, look, this statute, which makes it super difficult for a woman to claim a housing allowance for her husband, in effect, treats women as inferior. And that shit is not fair.

She didn't say that exactly, but you know. Those guys would have been like, mind blown. The Supreme Court judges were like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And they voted eight to one in her favor. Oh. It was a victory. But it was bittersweet. Because Ruth had also made the argument that moving forward, gender discrimination should be treated the same way that race discrimination was treated.

And everyone was still hella racist? Well, they had some new laws on the books that were like, racism is bad, okay? And she wanted sexism to also be bad. You know, how far we've come on any of that shit. Right, right. But anyway, she lost on that point. Four of the justices had agreed with her, but she needed five. But you know what they say about RBG.

She gets knocked down, but she gets up again. You're never going to keep her down. She gets knocked down, but she gets up again. You're never going to keep her down. She gets knocked down, but she gets up again. You're never going to keep her down. Pissing the night away. Fast forward to her next case before the Supreme Court. Picture it. Young guy named Stephen Weisenfeld was living a pretty nice, normal life.

His wife was pregnant, but she died in childbirth. Their son, Jason, survived. And Stephen decided that he would dedicate himself to raising his son. He wanted to become a stay-at-home dad, which was not a thing. So he went to the Social Security office and he explained his situation. He was the sole surviving parent of a child and he wanted survivor's benefits. But the people at the Social Security office were like, uh, well, we do have a benefit for this situation, but it is called a mother's benefit.

And you're obviously not a mother, so GTFO. Oh. Stephen was pissed. He was like, men have rights too, you know. Yeah. And everybody was like, careful, Stephen. That's going to sound real bad real soon, Stephen. So he wrote this snarky little letter to the editor of his local paper,

and he was like, hey, I've heard about women's lib, but what about my situation? Where's Gloria Steinem now? Yeah. I did not like his vibe because it's like, all right, calm down, Stephen. You know in these situations, it's the feminists, it's the people of color who are going to stand up for you. But anyway, he's shitting on us and needing our help. Right, exactly.

I say that like I was there now. And our gal Ruth was like, huh, this is interesting. What we have here is an example of how gender discrimination is bad for men and women. So she argued the case in front of the Supreme Court and she won unanimously. In her sixth and final argument in front of the Supreme Court, sorry, I'm losing a few of these just so that we're not here all day long. She argued a case that involved the great state of Missouri.

Oh, Missouri. Missouri's in this. Ooh. Here's the story. 1975. A dude was put on trial for first-degree murder and robbery. And his case was held in front of an all male jury, which was super common back then.

At the time, under Missouri law, women could just like opt out of jury duty. Oh. And you didn't even have to make a special request. You could just not show up. And they were like, guess she doesn't want to be here. She's probably on her period. That's exactly what they said so this guy was like i think my rights have been violated i have a right to an impartial jury chosen from a cross-section of my community and i didn't get that huh

did he actually feel that way who cares i know This is an important case. I'm just curious. I'm just like, hmm. Probably not. Probably not. It was just like an opportune thing. Yeah. Okay. So Ruth took the case and she argued that by making women's service on a jury optional,

the court was essentially saying that their service on a jury was less valuable than men's. And also, and I love this argument, she argued that it discriminated against men because they didn't get the same benefit of getting to opt out of jury duty that women were getting. Once again, Ruth won. In her cases before the Supreme Court, she said she felt a little like a kindergarten teacher

because she was literally teaching these guys the basics about something they knew nothing about and realistically probably didn't want to know anything about. Yeah, I'd never thought about it that way. That's really interesting. And at times, the dudes were total douchebags to her. For example, during her last argument to the court, she was talking about sexism and discrimination, and Judge William Rehnquist, who had jowls like a bulldog and a hairline that went back to yesterday and a number of bad takes,

said, you won't settle for putting Susan B. Anthony on the new dollar then? What? Yeah, like instead of equality, he wanted to just put... Oh my gosh. Uh-huh. And Ruth stood there and she wanted to say, we won't settle for tokens, but instead she followed the advice her mom had given her. She was a lady. She would not let him know that she was angry. She ignored his stupid ass question and continued on with her argument. And legend has it, the man banged his micropene three times that day. He's like, ow! I mean, he couldn't have been too smart if he did it three times. Oh my gosh, how did he get on the Supreme supreme court it's weird that micropeens come up so much in this case it's so strange it's really uh it's

not because i'm throwing it in there no i mean you you watch the documentary it is mentioned everywhere ruth's work had made a huge difference for men and women not only did she get rid of a lot of bullshit, but the fact that she went after all these statutes meant that legislatures were like, ooh boy, maybe we should stop treating men and women differently under the law. That little lady might come after us. Fast forward to 1980. Jimmy Carter was president.

And that big-hearted peanut farmer looked around and he was like, Ew, all the judges look exactly like me. It's a real white guy festival around here. So yada, yada, yada, RBG became a judge for the State Court of Appeals in D.C. The whole time, Marty the Stud had been a great tax lawyer in New York. Some people said he was the best tax attorney in New York City. But when Ruth got her job in D.C., Marty was like, cool, I'll pack my bags. Which, again, was a super unusual thing.

To move for the woman's career was simply not done. But as I've already said, Marty was a stud. And Marty was naturally asked about this because people were just so scandalized that he would move for his wife's job. And he said, as a general rule, my wife does not give me any advice about cooking. And I do not give her any advice about the law. This seems to work quite well on both sides. And everyone in the crowd chuckled, and they unclenched their buttholes, and Ruth flourished in her role as a judge.

She worked super hard. She loved it. And, of course, people took notice. She'd had this amazing career as a researcher, professor, attorney. She'd argued in front of the Supreme Court successfully multiple times, and now she was a freaking judge. You might be thinking to yourself, gee, any alumni association would sure be proud to have her on deck. Oh my god, what are you gonna say? It'd be pretty cool to claim Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the total badass rock star, as one of your distinguished alumni. And Columbia was all about it. They were like, uh, she graduated from Columbia Law. RBG graduated from our school. Did

we ever tell you about the time that RBG graduated from our school? Because it definitely happened. the time that rbg graduated from our school because it definitely happened hey it happened and harvard's like um hey what what do you think okay i'm i'm embarrassed in all of this because i honestly don't know that much about her life i mean you should be embarrassed get out of here did harvard try to claim her? I'm guessing. So, Harvard was watching her rise in the legal profession and was like, fuck, we really screwed the pooch on this one, boys. They were so embarrassed by Dean Griswold's stupid decision to deny Ruth Bader Ginsburg a degree from Harvard. So when the new dean took over, he was like, hey, hey, Ruth, so sorry about the little mix up. On second thought,

how about you accept this degree from Harvard? And she was like, no, thanks. And the next dean took over. And he was like, hey, Ruth, hey, Ruth, hey, friend, boy, have I got a gift for you. It's a degree and it's from Harvard. And she was like, no thanks. And the next dean took over and the next dean took over. And every dean tried to undo the past, but Ruth remained firm. She wasn't bitter about her time at Harvard. She spoke very glowingly about the students she'd been with and how they helped Marty through his cancer.

glowingly about the students she'd been with and how they helped Marty through his cancer. But she was like, you know, you can't rewrite history. I graduated from Columbia Law. I did not graduate from Harvard. I wanted to, but I was not allowed to. Fast forward to 1993. Bill Clinton was president, and there was an opening on the Supreme Court. Ruth was definitely on the list of candidates, but she was not high on the list. First of all, she was super old. She was in her 60s. Oh, God. Unthinkable. Uh-huh. Plus, she wasn't much of a campaigner. She was so quiet, so serious. In fact, she was so serious that her kids used to have this journal growing up, and on the front of it, it read, Mommy Laughed.

It's just a list of every time their mom laughed. That's funny. But one man refused to accept that Ruth wasn't a serious contender. And that man was Marty Ginsburg. Marty the stud. He talked to anyone who would listen about how his wife would make a great Supreme Court justice. And he wasn't just some guy shouting at the bus stop. Marty the stud was super well connected, and he worked those connections. So thanks in part to Marty, Ruth was called in for an interview with Bill Clinton. And within 15 minutes, Bill decided that she would be the 107th justice added to the Supreme Court.

Wow. She was the second woman to be appointed to the Supreme Court in American history. During her confirmation hearings, she was honest about where she stood on a number of controversial issues, including abortion. She said essentially that choosing whether or not to move forward with a pregnancy is essential to women's equality. We have to be treated as full adult humans who are responsible for our own choices, and the government shouldn't control that decision. She spoke about the discrimination she'd faced over the course of her career. She spoke passionately about her work, and then she was like, look at my planner. I didn't rape

anybody. And then she got super emotional and became totally unhinged. And she was like, I like beer. JK, that would be ridiculous. And she was confirmed 96 to 3. Wow. The Supreme Court now had two women. Two. Count them. One, two. As high as I can go. I hope they don't add any more. Be too much. RBG spent a long time on the Supreme Court. She wrote some fiery dissents, some majority opinions, but we don't have all goddamn day. So grab a stale cup of coffee and a box of prunes and join me in this highlight reel of the next few decades of RBG's life. Picture it. 1996. A case comes before the Supreme Court.

In it, Virginia Military Institute, which ever since its inception has been a total sausage fest, was being sued. A perfectly qualified woman wanted to go there. But VMI was like, hell no, no girls allowed. They went before the court and they were like, look, we don't want our drains to get clogged up with a bunch of tampons. Oh, yeah. It'd be chaos.

Plus, we're offering the girls a separate program somewhere else, equally good, we swear. Separate but equal works. We've seen it. Yes, so that's what RBG said. She's like, mmm. She wrote the majority opinion. She was like, look, dudes, you're a state school, and you need an exceedingly persuasive justification to keep women out of your school. And you don't have one. RBG

enjoyed herself on the court. She famously became buddies with Antonin Scalia, and they enjoyed going to the opera together, and I'm guessing they never talked politics. Marty the Stud, who was an excellent cook, made sure to bake cakes anytime any of the justices had a birthday, which I think is so cute. Yeah, that is cute. Life was good.

But then, in 1999, she developed colon cancer. This was her first of five bouts of cancer, but she never missed a day on the bench. But that first cancer scare did get her thinking about her health. So she hired a personal trainer, and she worked out with him in the special Supreme Court gym, which is only for judges. Oh, God. It's real. I wish I could see it. So cool. Oh, my gosh. Her health improved dramatically. She got super buff arms. But the tragedy is we'll never have evidence of it because of those flowing robes. Yeah. She

was working out and working late. The only way she'd come home was when Marty would call and he'd be like, hey, come on, you got to have dinner. She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He'd call half an hour later. You got to have dinner. Come on, have a home-cooked meal. Around this time, Harvard came calling again. Oh my gosh, get out, Harvard. This time, Harvard had a new dean. Her name was Elena Kagan. Oh. Heard of her? Yes. Her name was Elena Kagan. Oh. Heard of her?

Yes. Every year when she was dean, she reached out to Ruth and was like, can we please give you a degree, please? And Ruth was like, no, you can't. And Marty the stud was like, hell yeah, keep saying no. If you keep saying no, they'll have no choice but to give you an honorary degree. The years went on, and Marty got sick. He had cancer again, and it was spreading. On June 23, 2010, the couple celebrated their 56th wedding anniversary.

Wow. And a few days later, Marty died. This is the note that Ruth found next to his hospital bed. Oh, God. My dearest Ruth, you are the only person I have loved in my life, setting aside a bit, parents and kids and their kids. What a treat it has been to watch you progress to the very top of the legal world. I have admired and loved you almost since the day we first met at Cornell,

some 56 years ago. The time has come for me to take leave of life because the loss of quality now simply overwhelms. I hope you will support where I come out, and I understand you may not. I will not love you a jot less. Hmm. Oh, my gosh. I know.

A year later, Harvard reached out to her again, and they said, Okay, you won't accept a degree, but will you please accept an honorary degree? And she said yes. I've got goosebumps because of Marty. Yeah. With Marty's death and her own battles with cancer and her advancing age, people were like, uh, yo, Ruth, you thinking about retiring? And she was like, actually, no, I'm not. Thanks for asking. She did this kind of subtle thing

where she'd be like, you know what? Justice Louis Brandeis served almost 23 years. I think I'd like to be like him. And then later she was like, wow, how great that Justice John Stevens served 35 years and retired when he was 90. What a great role model. In other words, no one said shit when those old men stayed on the court as long as they fucking wanted, so back off. Over time, Ruth became famous for her dissents. For example, when the majority of the court voted to repeal the Voting Rights Act on the basis that it was no longer necessary. Oh my gosh.

Ruth was like, hey dum-dums, that's like throwing away your umbrella in a rainstorm because you are not currently getting wet. Toward the end of her life, she became kind of a pop culture icon. And people still asked her about retirement. And she said, I will do this job as long as I can do it full steam. And when I can't, that will be the time I will step down. And it seems like that's exactly what she did. Ruth Bader Ginsburg died on September 18, 2020, from complications of pancreatic cancer. She was 87.

She was the fourth oldest serving Supreme Court justice in the history of the United States, and she became the first woman to lie in state at the Capitol. Reflecting on her life, she once said, I'd like to be remembered as someone who used whatever talent she had to do her work to the very best of her ability. And that's the story of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I love it. Yeah. I think the best part about it, well, I mean, there's lots of great parts, but I think it's so amazing to see her work ethic and think about her parents and how that must have really driven her. Hell, yeah.

They couldn't do what they – they couldn't fulfill the potential that they had, and so she felt like she had to. And she did cancer five times. It's amazing. I had a case of the common cold last week. I got tested. It was not COVID. I thought I was going to die.

It was a scary time. It was a scary time. But she had cancer five times. It's amazing. I think it's also amazing, like, it's sad to me to think, like, if she'd married some other guy, obviously she still would have been successful. But you've got to have a champion in your corner. Yes, yes.

To reach the heights that she reached. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's a Jay-Z and Beyonce song that has to do with that, but now I can't remember what it is. It's Lemonade. No.

That's not good. That's not good. Oh, that was good. Thank you. Again, I feel embarrassed for being a liberal and knowing so little about RBG, but I need to go to the hurler dirt kerm. The what?

Our hurler. I don't know how much clearer I can be, Kristen. I said hurler dirt kerm. Okay, Kristen, are you ready for a story about identity theft? I am. Okay. So I'm basically going to retell you an episode of Criminal with Phoebe Judge. Okay.

And I've told you before. How dare you mention another podcast on this podcast? Kristen, it's International Podcast Day. So I have told you before you have to listen to Criminal with Phoebe Judge. Yeah. There are certain episodes that I really like. And I put it on, and she has this really distinctive voice. Yes.

Yeah, you've heard the voice. Yeah, and she has an amazing voice. Yeah, I was listening to the episode, and Jay was like, what are you listening to? What is that? So here we go. Axton Betts Hamilton. Are you going to do it in a Phoebe Judge impression? I could not even, or else I would try to.

She was 11 years old, and she lived with her parents in Portland, Indiana. So roughly 6,000 people in Portland, Indiana. Just so you know, it's about an hour away from Earlham College in Richmond, Indiana. Go Quakers, where I went to school. We all know it. We all know it. We've all been there. So anyway, Axton was an only child.

It's 1993. She's 11. So she's got her scrunchies. Her side bangs be banging. RBG just got appointed to the Supreme Court. That's right. She's pumped. She says she's a Jessie from Saved by the Bell, but in her heart of hearts, really wishes she was a Kelly.

We all did. God, Kelly was so beautiful. So beautiful. Freaking hair. So her mom worked in an accounting office, and her dad, like, managed the farm, right? And, I mean, we should all just quit and retire because they had straight up the best business name that has ever been had. Let's hear it. Up to our asses, donkey and mule farm.

I shit you not. Yes. When I said that, I almost died. And I tried. Don't Google it. I tried to Google it, though. Like, I didn't see anything. Did you see a bunch of asses?

I just, yeah. My Google search history. Oh, my God. Okay. So they're at their mule farm, rural Indiana, 1993. Their mail starts getting stolen. And imagine trying to run up to our ass's donkey and mule farm when you don't have the latest edition of Mules and More. I'm not even making that up, girl.

They're really upset about that. They literally had subscribed, and that was not the only, like, mule subscription they had. Okay, you know what? We're laughing, but in the 90s, I mean, magazines were the thing. Remember YM? YM. 17. Yes.

Well, you had whatever trashy thing had a Hanson. Tiger Beat. Yep. Tiger Beat. You could get your Tiger Beat, and you could get your Hanson posters. We all had it. Or at least I did. Yeah.

Okay. And then also, like, for Axton, being an 11-year-old, she had pen pals. She wasn't getting her pen pal letters. And for her parents, you know, their bills weren't coming. Right. So this was before security cameras. It wasn't like they could put a security camera out there and figure out what was happening. So they kind of figured out, well, maybe if we get a P.O. box, you know, that's going to be a safe place for our mail to come.

Our mail's not going to get stolen anymore. But, I mean, how many people are even in the area, right? Well, I mean, that was kind of the thing is that, you know, I'm sure their mailbox wasn't right up against their house. Of course not, yeah. It's like how many people are drunk? There are 12 suspects in this case. It should not have been that hard. So they decided to get a P.O. box.

Right. Even then, their mail wasn't all getting to them. How? What? They began to wonder if someone at the post office had it out for them. Yeah. Was it someone they were close to? So there was this, like, growing sense of paranoia within their family. You know, it's

especially like it's a small town, it's a rural community, what is happening? So in all of this, they did become victims of identity theft. And what I'll say is that because of the paranoia, one of the phrases that Axton's mom always went back to was the less people know about us, the better. She just felt like somebody was coming after them. They didn't know who to trust. And so, you know, they really just became not reclusive, but just like very protective of their farm and their property, even to the point where... They watched their asses. Even to the point where. They watched their asses. That was really good.

That was really good. And so her dad had even said, look, if anyone comes to the farm that we don't know, we have to defend ourselves. Oh, my God. Is he going to shoot somebody? I don't know, Kristen. Oh, shit. So I'm going to tell you the following story just to give you a sense of how, like, alert and kind of paranoid they were. Okay.

So our girl, Axton, is in bed one day. She's probably in her My Little Pony's pajamas, something like that. Her parents were off or working or somewhere. She sees this beat-up van coming down the driveway. Mm-hmm. And she can see this scruffy-looking dude inside. She's never seen him before. She remembers her dad saying, like, don't trust people.

You have to defend the property. So she's 11, but she's having this sense of, like, ownership of the situation. There's no one there. She grabbed the biggest butcher knife she could find, still in her pajamas, and went outside and was hiding behind the trees. Oh, no. Yeah, when he opened the car door, she yells, and she's like, Who are you?

What are you doing? And he's freaked out. There's this 11-year-old girl with this huge-ass butcher knife, and he's like, Leonard hired me. Leonard is her grandpa. And even then, she was like, You need to get out of here. So he hightailed it and left. Now, it turns out Leonard really did hire the guy.

Poor guy. poor guy. The guy said he was not coming back. But, you know, this is how paranoid they were. Axton was having panic attacks and stuff over all of this. It was awful. In addition to, you know, their identity had been stolen, so their credit was crap. Their electricity had been cut off, their gas, water, everything, these enormous debts. They were facing foreclosure, and the police wouldn't pay attention to them.

And why? Because there were no federal laws designating individuals as victims of identity theft. The victims of identity theft were the credit card companies because they were the ones being defrauded. It wasn't set up to like, I think, 98. Spoiler alert, I have like no court stuff. So anyway, that was just really interesting. But so there were there was no like efficient way to fix like no streamlined way to fix identity theft. You can't really go to the police. No. If it not, if the person's not doing something illegal to you.

Right. I mean, they were doing something illegal to the credit card company, so they'd have to try and, like, argue with the gas company and argue with the water company. It was a mess. So, okay, fast forward to the year 2000 when Axton goes to college. She's just seen Charlie's Angels. She's just seen Bring It On. It was a great year. Are we telling about our own lives here?

Girl, I had such a good time on Google looking up when movies came out. But what happened in 2000? Oh, my God. I was like, Charlie's Angels and Bring It On? Wow. That was a good year. So she had this new apartment she was really excited to get when she went to college because they were going to let her have cats. Okay?

And she had these two cats from the farm she was really excited about. So the water company calls her, and they said, hey, your credit is a bunch of shit, and so we need you to pay an extra $100 deposit. And she's like, my credit's a bunch of shit. Yeah so we need you to pay an extra hundred dollar deposit. And she's like, my credit's a bunch of shit. Yeah. You know what? And so she gets her credit report. She's like, oh my God. She calls her mom. She's like, my identity was so not just her parents. She is a child. So let me tell you something about our girl, Axton, that you're going to catch on to. She was a combination of a petty patty and a down-ass bitch. And I am here for it. Like, she was laser focused.

She said, you don't mess with me. So you know what she did? She became one of the foremost experts on child identity theft. Oh, my God. That was the focus of her master's thesis and her eventual Ph.D. Whoa. Don't mess with Axton. So it's February 2013.

Axton's mom, Pam, was in hospice. She'd gotten really, really sick. And, like, Axton had a fiance. And they even got married in the oncology wing of this hospital because they wanted her mom to be there when they got married yeah anyway shortly after Axton received her PhD her mom did pass away I know a couple weeks after her mom passes Axton gets this call from her dad John and he's pissed he's pissed he's like oh my, I just saw this credit card bill, and you racked up all these charges back in 2001.

What were you thinking? And she was like, in 2001, I was seeing Shallow Hal. I was so taken by that film, I couldn't possibly go spending money. But she's like, okay, Dad. She's thinking. Talk about a movie that does not hold up. Oh, even at the time, I remember it was like, ew. Yep, this is offensive even now.

Mm-hmm. So she's thinking her dad is going through some weird stage of grief, right? Like he's mad. He's a little out of it. And she said, what's the name of the credit card company? So he told her. She said, Dad, that was, you know, one of the ones that had gotten hold of our, you know, my identity. And then he said something that chilled Axton to her bones. He said, but I saw the bill.

It was in the file folder with your birth certificate. What? And it was at that point she knew, based on all of her research and knowledge, that her mother was a thief.

No. Yeah. No. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So at that point, Kristen, your face. Well, no, because I, early on, I was like, it's the parents or it's the grandparents. Yeah, yeah.

But no, you don't really want that to be the case. Well, no, no. I mean, you're way ahead of where I was. When I listened to this episode, I was like, Phoebe, no. Phoebe, how could you? But so the thing about Axton is that at this point, she enters into this like multi-year journey of trying to figure out who her mother really was and what she had been doing. And she would come to find out that over the period of like 16 years, her mom had stolen something like $600,000. Oh, my God.

Yeah. So, as you'd imagine, things from— Why didn't her mom just watch Shallow Halliburton? Well, here's what her mom was doing. It's upsetting to think of Jack Black having to be with a fat chick. Am I right? Oh, God. It's just so terrible.

Poor Jack Black. Poor Jack Black. Especially because he's so svelte. That's—oh Oh, God. She's so terrible. Poor Jack Black. Especially because he's so svelte. Oh, my God. Right? Yeah, the double standard. Suck and break. Oh, my God. Anyway, I won't interrupt again with my shallow hal podcast. This really just becomes a shallow hal podcast.

So, she's starting to, like, go back and rethink all these memories from her childhood. Yeah. Okay. Her mom used to watch a lot of QVC. Okay. A lot of Home Shopping Network.

Okay. It all adds up. It all adds up. She'd buy this. She was really into costume jewelry, apparently. Well, yeah. If you're watching QVC, you like some flashy stuff. I mean, what else is.

Right. So things would arrive and her mother would hide them. And eventually, Axton got old enough that she was kind of like, what's going on? And so her mom was like, well, I'll get two and then you can have one. And Axton says, looking back, like she thought that was normal. She thought this was just normal behavior. And how long is the word behavior? Behavior.

There's a lot of extra syllables there. But I think what's crazy about this particular case is that the mom, and what kind of drives me crazy is that the mom didn't live a particularly lavish lifestyle, at least that we know of. I think there's some weird satisfaction that we get it's like if you're going to be uh stealing people's identity i at least want you to be out there and like flashy cars and not costume jewelry from qbc but but you know okay sometimes you know they'll look at people who grow up with very little and all of a sudden get a lot of money and it's like your

tastes don't really change. So you're still going to eat the bologna sandwiches with the Cheetos. I mean, there are just certain things that you can have all the money in the world, but you're still you, boo. Yeah, that is true. And I, okay, that is true. And what's interesting, too, is that she, like, she straight up drove some pits cars. Like, she drove old cars. She didn't drive new cars. And being the person who was working in an accountant's office, she was the one who handled all the finances in her home.

And so she, you know. Well, she stole from the company, too, right? Well, not that they say. I say. Kristen says. And the other thing about this mom is that personality-wise, like the dad, John, and Axton both say,

her mom had a confidence that she didn't allow anybody to question her. Like, if you questioned her, she had a way of making you feel like you were a dumbass for even questioning her. So,

the other thing, too, is that her dad, like, he was this really trusted farmer in town and that reputation kind of benefited her a little bit

because at one point the sheriff came to try and get the mom for bad checks and John was like, oh, no, this is a huge misunderstanding. Our identity has been stolen, blah, for bad checks. And John was like, oh, no, this is a huge misunderstanding. Our identity has been stolen, blah, blah, blah.

And they're seeing him, and they're like, oh, my gosh. Oh, okay. So anyway, Axton began digging, right, using all the skills she'd built up with her Ph.D. and in her professional career. up with her PhD and then her professional career. But, like, it wasn't easy because, after all, there was that electrical fire that had happened just weeks before her mom died in the house. What? Right?

So there had been this, quote, unquote, electrical fire where a lot of stuff had burned. Did she bust out of the oncology ward? I don't know. See, and I don't know, like, how much. Phoebe didn't tell you, huh? Because she didn't. I'm like, Phoebe, girl, tell me about this. But, yeah, so we would maybe know more about this.

In fact, like, I think that we would if that tragic electrical fire hadn't happened. We would if that tragic electrical fire hadn't happened. Or the fact that when Axton's mom was in hospice, she insisted that there be no service and no obituary, which felt strange. But they honored her request because that was like her dying wish. So another thing that Axton noticed was that when her mom was in hospice, she was on Facebook a lot. Was she catfishing everybody? Well, so here's what happened. I'll keep my pants on.

Keep your pants on. So Axton thought to herself, look, there are all these people that she is keeping up with on Facebook. Mom didn't want to obituary, but if I can get access to her Facebook account, I can tell these people, like, look, she has passed. So with some hacking and whatever that these people, these kids do nowadays, she got on, and she found that there were 4,000 private messages between Pam and all of these people, people she'd gotten high school with, people from a local diner she frequented, people from across the country. Axton, and I hate this part, like Axton stayed up all night reading through these conversations, trying to figure out who her mom was.

She didn't recognize her mom at all in any of these conversations. She was flirtatious. She was like always presenting a different picture of herself and her life, sometimes completely like denying the existence of Axton and her dad, John, or saying that John was really abusive. And again, caveat, I really hate this because I don't know, John, maybe he was, but like, anyway, Axton came to see through her financial digging and her, like, retroactive Facebook stalking that her mom was using the money not only to buy all that costume jewelry from QVC, but to live a double life, triple life, quadruple life. Whatever numbers come after that, she was living that, too. So the most painful thing, though, I hate this, was she was

reading about how her mom talked about her family. She said that she wrote to somebody that the worst day of her life was the first day that John had left her alone with Axton. I know. It's just like, oh. And you know, Axton is never going to have answers to what her mom meant by that. Maybe it was postpartum. Like there's no – there's nothing to soften that blow or give context. And maybe it was just total bullshit. Right. Her mom could have been – because her mom is kind of a BS-er.

It could have been anything. So through all of this, Axton finds debts in different places. But it's honestly really unsatisfying because there are more questions than there are answers. You know, we know we spent some money different places. She spent money on hotel rooms and alcohol and stuff because she was seeing different men and stuff like that. She did also find home inspection records for properties that like the family had never owned, but it seemed like she owned properties.

So the other thing that was really creepy is that she said, you know, there are people out there across the country who knew my mom in some capacity who know stuff they don't even know they know. Like stuff that they know that's just like regular information, but to her would be like so critical. Well, and thus one of the reasons why you don't have, she didn't want to have a funeral. Exactly. Didn't want to bring all these people together, potentially, swapping stories.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. So, not long after her mom died, Axton attended her mom's 40th high school reunion. Because she thought, I'm going to go and I'm going to try and find some answers as best I can. Oh, gosh. And when she went there, everybody was really confused. Pam had stayed in really close touch with them. You might remember

that from like the Facebook messages and everything. But here's the thing. Pam never had a daughter. So everyone thought Axton was crazy. Oh. But you also might remember that Axton was a down bitch and a petty patty, and she brought the receipts. I mean, she, like, literally brought documentation for being this woman's daughter. And so people did open up, and they said, you know, look, like, this is how Pam was. She told us she was very wealthy. I'm guessing she probably kind of doted on the people she was closest to. So at one point, Miss Phoebe of the Criminal Podcast asked, like, did you ever feel close to your mother in doing any of this research?

And Axton said no. No, you wouldn't. Yeah, no. Like, she never felt, you know. And she said she would press charges if her mom was still alive today because she said, I spent 20 years of my life trying to, like, dig out of this financial debt that she had dug for me. Yeah.

And so, I know. And she thinks that her mom, there was, it was kind of interesting. She had this article in Psychology Today where she kind of talks about what some of the mental health issues that she thinks that her mom has. And she talks about her mom possibly being a sociopath because she didn't feel guilt. She just didn't feel guilt. And when Axton was reflecting at one point, she said, I think my mom cognitively loved my dad but, like, could not emotionally love my dad.

not emotionally love my dad. And so she just didn't have that access to that emotional feeling. So an update on John, the dad, he didn't have any of the retirement that he was hoping to have. Oh, my gosh. I know, I know, this poor man. And so here's the thing, here's the thing, too. Goddamn Pam had always promised him this motorcycle. She was going to buy him a motorcycle.

And he's like, he doesn't have his retirement. He doesn't have anything. Well, I can tell you today that he has a girlfriend and that somehow in all of this, all of her financial shenanigans, they found $5,000. And that man got himself a goddamn motorcycle. Good for you, John. John, you live your life. Now, the other thing for Axton, the other thing is that her mom made kind of a strange request that her urn live at Axton's house. She didn't want her urn to be at John's house.

I don't, I mean, I don't totally get, but whatever. She didn't want her urn to be at John's house. I don't, I mean, I don't totally get, but whatever. So, Axton has this urn that as she finds out new shit about her mom, she says she will literally yell at the urn. Oh, God. To, like, process it. This doesn't seem healthy. I mean, she's kind of an eccentric person. You know, it's like, I mean, her mom was super eccentric, so accident's kind of a little eccentric.

But then the other thing, too, is that she has written a book about her whole experience called The Less People Know About Us, A Mystery of Betrayal, Family Secrets, and Stolen Identity. Ooh. Because, you know, that was her mom's phrase. Less people know about it. So she's got this whole setup in her house with the urn and then an easel with the book next to it. Yes, she does.

She is petty. She is. You know. I'm okay with it. I'm not judging. I know. I know. I feel like I could see a little bit.

I'm scared to shit. Ghosts. You guys, some foam paneling just fell and it sounded like someone was licking their lips right by me. Ew!

Well, that's why I looked over there. You did look over there like someone was coming for you. Oftentimes, I'll be alone in a room and then I hear something

and Norm's in a corner. Gross! But the other thing I'll say, too, that's, like, so creepy, and you can find this picture online, is that one of the last pictures that she has with her mom, where her mom is still relatively healthy, is this picture where Axton was presenting at a national conference on identity theft, and she was the foremost expert on child identity theft,

and she was getting this award because she was, and her mom is just beaming standing next to her. Oh, that's weird. And that is the story of an identity theft mystery. I'm sorry. I loved all that court stuff. I know. I know.

Ma'am, were you under the impression that you were on Phoebe Judge's podcast, Criminal? Yeah, I was like, I thought this was just a retelling of the Criminal podcast. That was great. Okay, what do I Google to get that picture? Oh, God. If you Google... Axton. Axton, it's A-X-T-O-N, and then Betts, B-E-T-Z, Hamilton.

If you just Google that, I think you can see that in the images. Oh, boy. Here we go. Yeah, so she's in the middle and her parents are around her. She's got her little plaque. And it is just like an Indiana farm town family. I don't even think she has any costume jewelry on in that picture. I was going to say, I was really hoping she'd have some costume jewelry.

It really is kind of an unsatisfying story in a sense that you want, like I want to know everything about her double life, her triple life, or every life, but that electrical fire and, I don't know, maybe $600,000 over the course of like 20 years when you're shelling out money on other people to prove that you're wealthy. Maybe that doesn't go that far. I don't know. I've never had $600,000.

I think we ought to try. I think we should, guys. I think we should. That's the new Patreon level. Guys, sign up and give us your social security numbers. That's right. Send us your Tiger Beat magazines, your, what was it, Mules and More. Send us your Mules and More.

I already have a subscription to Mules and More. I don't need another one. Kristen, you could give it to someone else, someone in need. But, yeah, so your only kind of court or legislative information is that I think in 1998, identity theft became a federal crime. I am a substitute. I was going to say the understudy disappoints. I'm sorry, Brandy. I'm not doing well by you this time.

You know what? Brandy's going to be listening to this, coughing with COVID. Oh, God. Damn it, Kyla. Damn it, Kyla. It's probably not funny to make COVID jokes in these trying times. Oh, God. Damn it, Kyla. Damn it, Kyla. It's probably not funny to make COVID jokes in these trying times.

That's right. Brandi, we love you. Clearly, this is a cry for help that we need you to come back, Brandi. Oh, you guys might be interested to know DP will be on next week's episode. Oh, my gosh. Guys, when Kristen asked me

if I could be on, I was like, oh, hell yeah. Does this mean I get to brag to dad? Because I thought it meant that DP wasn't coming on. And then Kristen said, no, he's out next week. I was like, oh, fuck. They are RVing across the country. But when Brandy got COVID, I suspected

like a Tonya Harding situation. Like maybe he went and coughed in Brandy's face or something. Yeah. Just so that he could step in. Oh, my gosh. He absolutely did. All right, Kyla. Are you ready to take some questions from the Discord?

Y'all ready for this? Yes. I'm pulling it up this time, too. Oh, God. What's the worst thing you've ever done? What? Let's add that to the list of questions. One time, just now, I farted before the podcast started. That was the worst thing you've ever done? What? Let's add that to the list of questions. One time, just now, I farted before the podcast started.

That was the worst thing. Murder mistress. We're going to add that to the list of questions we will never answer. Oh, what is Kyla's kids' costumes? Oh, for Halloween. So we were actually talking about this before the podcast started. So my daughter's really into Harry Potter, Hunger Games, Akata Warrior, and Akata Witch.

So she's decided she's going to be Katniss Everdeen from Hunger Games. And Henry, I don't know. He's just a little nugget. Henry's a little guy. He doesn't know what Halloween is. No, he doesn't. So what we're going to do,

I mean, if you guys are all up for it, yeah, I want to do a little trick-or-treat scavenger hunt at my place. Would Henry get it? No, but he would love just toddling around. He just likes walking around your house. Okay, well, we'll put one on every step for him. Oh, my gosh, he loves steps. Our house doesn't have steps.

Oh, every bit of mid-30s wants to know what did you fight most about growing up oh god girl oh kristen's looking at me because she knows okay mine was that what do you mean mine it's like it it was fights that we had together. Well, but... You still want me to say my thing. Go ahead. Go ahead and confess your sins to the people. My sin to the people is that Kristen would borrow my shirts. Hold on. What?

You would borrow my clothes all the time. Yeah. Kristen would wear my clothes, and I would say she would stretch them out. Mm-hmm. Like I was in Shallow How. Not like that. You were blessed with curves, and I was not blessed with any curves.

You're getting all shy. She would literally yell at me, you're stretching out my shirts with your big, fat titties. You're stretching out my shirts with your big, fat titties. Now, I am saying that only because I, you know, you might hear that and be like, my God, is Kristen like a Dolly Parton lookalike? Is she blessed in some way? No, Kyle is just bad at sharing. I would say I'm bad at sharing, and I have even less than Kristen does. Well, that's true. I mean, that's true. Like

I have a little more than you do, but I'm not like, you know, about to fall over because I'm an improper fraction. She's that Barbie. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Old timey disclaimer wants to know what foods from childhood do you still enjoy today? You know what's one? They're not even good. And Norman, every time I buy them, is like, what? What are you doing? You know, Dad used to like these a lot. They're the Snackwell's Devil's Food.

Those aren't good, are they? They're bad. They're bad. I don't know why I like them. And they're like one of those foods, they're a total throwback food that says like fat-free. Yes. It was back in the 90s when everything was fat-free, but they just jacked it up with sugar. So they're like little devil's food cookies that are like really dry and disgusting. Yes.

And then they have a thin marshmallow coating and then a thin chocolate coating around that. They're not good. No. and then a thin chocolate coating around that. They're not good. No! But when I'm stressed, I will go eat a box of those Snackwell's Devil's Food Cookies. Oh, my gosh. I haven't thought about those in so long.

You are right. They are terrible. And you are also right. I had never realized they were terrible until this very moment. I have. So I never cooked growing up, which is why the first time I popped a bag of popcorn in high school, I wouldn't even share it with Kristen. The theme is I'm a bad sharer. I came over there with my big fat titties and wanted some of that popcorn.

Oh, my God. But Kristen, so Kristen, when we got home from school sometimes, she would slice up a zucchini. Oh, yeah. With some butter, put some cheese on it, and the cheese would get all melty. So good. Oh, I would eat that up. I would just sit there. Kristen would make it, and Kristen would probably have two cream sodas.

She loved a good cream soda. So I have a nostalgia for that smell. I can see that look in our house of the kitchen in Lenexa. It's so weird, though, because people are going to be listening and be like, zucchini and cheddar cheese. But did you know that is one of Brandy's nostalgic meals, too, because our mom would make that all the time. Yeah, I remember hearing that, I feel like, on one of the time. Yeah, I remember hearing that I feel like on one of the episodes.

Yeah. I mean, I have it too. Natalie wants to know. Okay, so I told everyone in the Discord that Allie told you don't be Brandy, just be yourself. Yeah. So Natalie wants to know if you're going to be Brandy, what does that entail? Oh, God. I don't know. I don't even know that I have like a good, funny answer for that. Well, we'll be cutting this. I mean, like, I would just,

yeah, I would have a fun and boisterous laugh. And we were talking about how funny would it be if you came on the podcast and you had an obvious fake laugh. Like you were trying to compete. Yes, I was trying to compete with Brandi. It's the Laughing Olympics and you're just faking your way through the whole thing. Oh, God, I wouldn't even come in with the bronze. Oh, God. Somebody said, Kristen, what's it like to be the less famous sister?

That's Franklin. He's one of my law school buddies. Thank you, Franklin. Kylie, you've got to face the microphone when you're speaking. Oh, I'm sorry. I got too excited. Okay, this is for real. As Nelson wants to know,

which one of the sisters is more like DP? Oh, God. Ooh. This could end in a fight, you guys. Yeah, it's funny. Somebody asked if we had a sibling rivalry, and I was going to say no, but maybe it's a Bruin, the mid-30s sibling rivalry. I don't know.

Maybe you? I was going to say maybe me too. Yeah. Yeah. It's unfortunate to say. Yeah, I think, you know, I need more of a healthy dose of not caring what people think. And you have a skosh more of that than I do. I mean, you have a lot less than DP because DP just hasn't.

Oh, well, Dad really doesn't care at all. None of it. And he should be locked up. He cares so little what other people think. Yeah. But, yeah, yeah, you're right. I don't care too much. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that's why I would say you and you. And I buy a lot of my clothing at Costco, so that also makes me look good. Oh, my God. Me, too. And you like my new shoes. What?

I almost complimented your shoes earlier when you were making me a drink. Ooh-wee. Ooh. People are asking me about my favorite LGTC episodes, and I listen to them all, so it's not like I'm like, oh, I don't know. But I'm like you, I think a little bit more like I'm not a Brandy where I remember them

all super separately or anything like that. Like they just kind of run together and I just look forward to listening to them every week, so. Is it just like

you love my cases every week and you just hate Brandy's? I'm like, oh my God. Carly JS wants to know, do Kristen and Norm ever babysit? What are they like as babysitters? Would love your niece's take on this.

She loves it. Oh, my gosh. It's so fun. The kids love coming over to Auntie and Uncle's house. We were kind of joking earlier because before we recorded, we had sushi. And Kristen was talking about, oh, man, I haven't had sushi in such a long time. When's the last time I had it? And I said, well, it's when Allie came over.

Yeah. And you let Allie choose what you guys ordered in. And Allie chose sushi because she knows at our house, like, we don't get to have sushi all the time because it's expensive. So when she came over here, she got to choose sushi. Which is so funny because, like, she chose sushi. And Norman and I were like, hell yes. We were so excited to get sushi. But then we got it, and she didn't really eat a lot of it.

Yeah. And so it did make me wonder, like, she doesn't really seem to like sushi. But she was very adamant that we should order it. And then you came out with, like, she knows it's a fancy thing. That's right. It is fancy. Well, and she, you know, she doesn't really play video games, although we did get the Super Nintendo from y'all's house that you guys got from Mom and Dad.

And so we've been playing a little bit at our house. But from having read Harry Potter, Norm got whatever Harry Potter game. Some Harry Potter Lego game. And she's, like, upset. So, I mean, to her, she comes over here, they order the food that she wants, and when Henry comes over here, they've got these stairs, and there's no stairs in our house. Imagine, guys, the joy of going upstairs and downstairs and plopping yourself onto a bed. Oh my gosh. What could be better? Yeah, he loves getting

onto their, to their beds. I was, yeah, I said to Jen, I was like, we need to get a new mattress. Kristen and Norm have such comfortable mattress in their house. And he's like, how do you know how comfortable Kristen is? He's like thinking that's so weird. And I was like, well, Henry likes to get up on their bed. Dammit, Brandy wants to know, how is Brandy feeling? Okay, so Brandy is doing okay. You know, she, it's funny, she keeps saying she has a mild case. And me, not having experienced COVID firsthand, I'm kind of like, oh, okay, good, mild, like a cold, right?

No, not like a cold. It's really bad. Even when it's mild, it's really bad. So she's hanging in there and my job as her long-term friend is to be like, fuck the podcast, Brandy, we got this. You just like rest up. She's watching so many game shows. Oh, gosh.

And playing so much Animal Crossing from the couch. Leslie Jones is hosting the supermarket sweep now. Did you know that? Really? Yeah, I saw a commercial for it. I love that. I know. I don't know why I whispered that.

People can't know. Please don't tell anybody. People. I know. I don't know why I whispered that. People can't know. Please don't tell anybody. People can't know. Somebody asked me if I knew anybody else named Kyla growing up. They have a cousin named Kyla. There was one other Kyla at our high school. And there was a chance, a weird, slim chance that cannot be verified but is a cool story that we may have been named after the same Kyla. Because our mom went to nursing school with a Kyla.

They liked the name. And then that woman went off to western Kansas somewhere to be a nurse. And the Kyla that I went to high school with, her grandfather had been taken care of by a nurse in western Kansas before he died, and she was a lovely angel of a woman, and so they named her Kyla. That is, you know what, I was going to make fun of you and be like, oh, cool story. That is actually kind of a cool story.

As I was telling it, I was like, that's not a cool story. No, it is. Okay, well, that's good. Oh. John Proctor asked if I'm the actoress of the family still. Okay, so for anyone who's confused. Oh, I just dropped my phone. John, your question had me yucking it up.

So for anyone who doesn't know what that is, at the Supreme Court level, we do these bonus episodes on Patreon. And the bonus episodes lately have been me reading from my elementary and middle school diary. And in one of the elementary school entries, I became quite taken with the idea of becoming an actorese. Actorese. That's how I spelled it. And when I told Kyla about it, Kyla said, no, I am the actor of the family. I can't share. That's right you know we could be big-time sibling actors in Hollywood we could be the best actresses the world has ever

known and now we're just in Kansas City with these acoustic panels hanging around us uh-huh not Not actresses at all. Now, what's embarrassing for me is when I was in elementary school, I signed all the yearbooks. You know, signing yearbooks was a really big deal. I would sign it, Kyla, future actress. No, you didn't. Yes, I did. And I cringed to admit it, but I did. So you couldn't have been one because I'd already signed it in the yearbook. Yeah.

Kyla, is Norm still alive? I can confirm. He had sushi with us, and he set up. Well, he was the one who played the Vin Diesel song. Yeah. You think I could have told you that Vin Diesel came out with a new single? Oh, the not okay corral wants to know who's the messy one, who's the clean one, who's the introvert, who's the extrovert, who's the cheer captain,

and who's on the bleachers. Oh, this is easy. Okay, go ahead. You're the extrovert. I'm the introvert. You're the cheer captain.. I'm the introvert. Uh-huh. You're the cheer captain. I'm on the bleachers. I'd say we're both pretty clean, right?

I think so. I mean, I would say you keep a tidier house. Well, I don't have kids. But I was going to say, like, I think if I had no kids, my house would be tidier. Ooh, would you, okay. GG2U asks, would you rather commit a heinous crime and nobody knows it was you or not commit a heinous crime but everyone you know thinks you did? Well, how heinous are we talking?

I don't know. It doesn't specify. Okay, you have to commit an armed robbery. So you're not... Oh, no. You don't hurt anybody physically. But you scare the shit out of them. But you scare the shit out of them.

And they do poop their pants. We're in our mid-30s and we just snort laughter. The idea of someone pooping their pants because we've got a gun on them. Yeah. You know, what gets to me is the idea of everyone I know believes I've committed a heinous crime because that means like all of your relationships change with the people you value the most and I've always wanted to commit an armed robbery yeah I think I think I would commit it and nobody knows it was me and then maybe like I don't know get thee to a priest or something.

What? Art heist. What? That's what you would do? I'd do an art heist. Oh, my God. Oh, but that's so mean. I know.

You're taking the art away from the people. Yeah. Jerk. But it looks so good in my bathroom. Oh, my God. Brandy, you'd hang it and only like, only in a room that you let Brandy go into. Yeah, it would be in the podcast recording room and I'd set it up so that she would have to look at it all the time. Oh, my God.

I love it. I love it. All right, Miss Kyla, you've been through this before. Mm-hmm. This is the time in our episode where we talk Supreme Court inductions. And, you know, I realize we've not really been business cats because we didn't talk about the Patreon and all the levels of it. Well, you know, Brandy's not here. So the B team, you know, here's the thing, guys, at the $5 level on Patreon, you get a monthly bonus episode, you get into the discord, which is like a 90s chat room at the $7 level, you get all that. Plus, you get a monthly bonus video.

You get inducted onto this very podcast. You get yourself a sticker and a card with our lovely autographs. And at the $10 level, that's the Bob Moss level, you get episodes a day early, ad-free, and starting now, 10% off in the brand spanking new merch store. Oh, that's hot off the press. I didn't know that until just now. I know.

I'm just dropping all kinds of bombs. That's right. And right now we are going to be reading people's names and their favorite books. Kirsten Bowe. Anthem by Anne Rand. Brianna. The Count of Monte Cristo. Brianna, The Count of Monte Cristo.

You're an Alexandra DeMoss for saying it like that. Olivia Stelling, The Seven Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle. Kellen Smithson, The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath. Megan Brown, The Perks of Being a Wallflower. Barb Esposito, The Murder Club by John Grisham Abby Colvette A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving Melissa Reese

These Is My Words by Nancy Turner Morgan Stewart Identical by Ellen Hopkins Christina Dominguez Rosencrantz and Guildenenstern are dead by Tom Stoppard. Elizabeth. Pride and Prejudice. Mira Franzel. Frankenstein.

Alicia Looper. One Foot in Eden by Ron Rash. Welcome to the Supreme Court! Oh my gosh, guys. Thank you so much for listening. So, Profesh, find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, our website where you can pick up that new merch that is super awesome.

Look at you trying to be Brandy. I'm trying to be a business cat. I know you're not Brandy at this part, so I'm trying to help out. And don't forget to join us next week when we'll be experts on virtual new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia.

I mean, not this episode. You just told us about a better podcast. And I was offended. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the documentary RBG, Oye.org, The New York Times, and Wikipedia. I got my info from the podcast Criminal by Phoebe Judge, The Balance, Psychology Today, Market Watch, and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours.

Please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.