Let's Go To Court! - 150: Consensual Murder & Horror at Dollar General

Episode Date: December 2, 2020

It was the mid-90’s and Sharon Lopatka was super into the brand spankin’ new world wide web. She launched a handful of online businesses. She chatted with newfound friends. She also explored her sexuality. The anonymity of the internet allowed Sharon to discuss some pretty kinky stuff. She went into chat rooms, looking for men to torture her to death. Some said yes, but backed away when the conversation shifted from fantasy to logistics. Then, Sharon found a guy who wasn’t scared. His name was Robert “Bobby” Glass.  Then Brandi tells us a horrifying tale that took place right across from her salon. Robin Bell was the manager of a Dollar General in Bonner Springs, Kansas. One night in November of 2005, she planned to work late. The district manager was coming the next day, and she wanted the store to look perfect. But when her husband, Don, woke up in the middle of the night and found that Robin wasn’t in bed with him, he knew something had to be wrong. He drove straight to the Dollar General, using the exact route Robin should have taken back home. But he didn’t find her car along the side of the road. He found it in the store’s parking lot. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “A date with death,” by Rachael Bell for the Crime Library “Killer of Carroll woman dies in N.C. prison,” by Sheridan Lyons for the Baltimore Sun “Take my life -- please,” Raleigh News and Observer, November 3, 1996 In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “A year later, family still wondering who killed Tonganoxie woman” by Jesse Truesdale, The Tonganoxie Mirror “Bonner murder leaves lasting impression” by Nicole Kelley, The Basehor Sentinel “Family attends hearing in murder case” by Bobbi Mlynar, The Emporia Gazette “Jurors view grisly video of Dollar General crime scene” by Jesse Truesdale, The Basehor Sentinel “Dollar General killers receive life in prison” by Nicole Kelley, The Chieftain “Third defendant in 2005 Dollar General murder gets maximum juvenile sentence” by Nicole Kelley, The Lawrence Journal-World “State v. Haberlein” caselaw.findlaw.com “State v. Backus” caselaw.findlaw.com

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about consensual murder. I don't think that's a thing.

And I'll be talking about a murder at Dollar General. Brandi, you did such a good job pronouncing your own name. We just had to re-record the intro because I couldn't say my own fucking name. You're a great podcaster. Thank you. You say all the words so well. Yes, so well. Speak so eloquently.

Brandoy Egan. I think I actually said it more like Brenda. You did. Which is kind of an old-timey name. You don't hear Brenda anymore. Not a lot of Brenda's around. Can you imagine seeing an infant named Brenda? Do you think about that, like, when people name their babies?

Like Norman was at one point a baby? A baby. A baby named Norman. Norman doesn't even seem like a name for a 30-year-old guy. Exactly. Like, the old people names are really coming back, though. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, Henry, that's kind of an old person name. Yeah. Yeah. You guys going to call him Hank? Ew. Oh, I didn't realize that's a... Oh, I hope not. Or you could call him Henri.

Yeah, I don't think so. Although, you know, the Pitt Sevens, they're kind of a fancy household. Yeah, I think Henri is pretty fancy. Okay, well, maybe I'll start that. I'm going to start calling him Henri. I mean, I never see him. But, you know, when COVID's over and I maybe see him occasionally, I will call him Henri. I mean, you call Peanut Pinut.

I do. Which is, you know, a fancier version of Peanut, I think. Which is good because Peanut's always been a very regal dog. Absolutely. When she farts, she leaves the room. She is just the fanciest dog ever when she's going, you know, tongue deep in that butthole. Okay. Okay.

Last night, Norman got annoyed with me because we were trying to fall asleep and Peanut started licking her butthole. And so I asked him, if you could lick your own butthole, would you? So I pose that question to you now. No. You wouldn't just try it one time? No. Okay. Okay.

What if, follow-up question, there's a contest at the downtown Marriott and it's a butthole licking contest. Everyone has to lick their own butthole. First prize, $10,000. Do you do it? No. Why not? Well, first of all, because I don't think I could do it. No, but you can.

You've been given the magical ability. You've been given the magical ability. So I have to lick my own butthole for $10,000. Well, for a shot at winning $10,000. Yeah, exactly. It's just a shot at it? No. Brandi, breaking news. The prize just got up to a million dollars.

But I still only have a chance at it? Well, I mean, how many humans can lick their own butthole? Don't you think? Who's determining the winner? Do you have to have the best technique? Or the best butthole-licking costume? I will let you see the score sheet in a minute here. I just want to know what kind of scorecard this is being graded on.

This is a disgusting introduction to our podcast. Can you imagine if someone, like, this is their first episode? They're starting off here. Boy, what a rough one. I don't think I'm going to participate in the butthole-licking contest is my answer. You're just as much of a party pooper as Norm. Norm was like, this is a ridiculous question. And he goes, I'd have to go and do that in front of a bunch of people.

And I was like, well, you know, they probably have some curtains up. But, yeah, it would be televised. What about you? Are you participating in the butthole-licking contest? No, I would not. Exactly. But I like to shame others. Exactly.

Just as I suspected. Thought about this a lot. Now, if it was like a tongue-to-nose contest. I know you do quite well. I'd kick ass at that. I'd kick serious butthole. But let me tell you something. There's no $10,000 prize for that.

I'd do it for $10. I know, but I'm just saying, like, no one would be that excited. I know. No one's that excited about it. Except you should see London's face when I touch my tongue for $10. I know, but I'm just saying, like, no one would be that excited. I know. No one's that excited about it. Except you should see London's face when I touch my tongue to my nose. It's like she's seeing a unicorn. In a way, she is. It's fascinating.

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Turns out we did the wrong thing. We dipped spoons into it, which you're not supposed to do. We tried the tiniest bit of it, though. I cannot imagine that it would be any better spread on buttered toast. It would have to be. I don't care how fucking thinly you spread that. I don't see that improving. It's the worst thing I've ever put in my mouth, folks.

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That's my trailer voice. Not like trailer park, like a movie trailer. Let's hear it again. Let's hear it again. I can't do it again. Now you're looking at me, I'm embarrassed. Coming soon. It's always a man's voice, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Coming soon to a theater near you. No, it's too, too, too COVID-y. It's like it's a little, hmm. That's if somebody's getting murdered at the movie theater near you.

Maybe our merch is really dark. Maybe it is. Maybe our mugs are murder weapons. Maybe there's blood everywhere. That is a sticker. It is. Okay. Shall we?

Yeah. Shall we hop to it? Talk about consensual murder. Do you know anything about this case? I, oh, maybe. What do you mean maybe? I, okay, is there like an internet thing? Yeah.

Okay, I think I know bits and pieces. I think I've heard a podcast episode on it. Which podcast? It's the podcast I refuse to continue mentioning. Okay. Voldemort? Yes, it's Voldemort. Voldemort's podcast. Okay,

first off, thank you to Skuncherino in the Discord for suggesting this case. Also, another reason I think you know this one, Rachel Bell wrote an article about it for the Crime Library. Oh, yeah. Which think you know this one, Rachel Bell wrote an article about it for the Crime Library. Oh, yeah. Which, you know,

you are obsessed with Rachel Bell. As soon as you said Rachel Bell, my ears, did you see them? They were like, you're like my close personal friend who I know quite well. Yeah. Plus an article

from the Raleigh News and Observer. I found it pasted into some weird blog with no author and no headline. So, okay, there we go. Excellent. Uh-huh. That's how I love to get my sources. Nothing sketchy here. It was the mid-90s and 35-year-old Sharon Lepotka was ahead of the curve. Everyone else was clutching their Beanie Babies and their Tickle Me Elmo dolls, saying, The World Wide Web seems like a passing fad to me. And then they chomped on some corn nuts and washed it down with a cold can of Surge and said, Man, that internet, it'll never catch on. There was all of the things we did in 1995.

I may have pulled from my own personal experience, yes. But not Sharon Lepatka. Sharon was into it. She was living in Ellicott City, Maryland with her husband, Victor. And while Victor worked construction sites, Sharon watched the pennies pile up thanks to her husband, Victor. And while Victor worked construction sites, Sharon watched the pennies pile up thanks to her sweet online businesses. What kind of online businesses did she have? No shortage of them, I'll tell you, because Sharon was a business cat.

She had an online business called Classified Concepts, where for $50, she would rewrite your classified ad. Is there a market for that? I don't know. But $50 seems steep. Very pricey. Yep. She had an online business as a psychic. She had an online business where she

sold advice to people. Okay. She had a home decor site called House of Dion where for just $7 you could give her your address and she'd send you a booklet of home decorating secrets. Oh, wow. The website read, Home decorating secrets seen in the posh homes

from the New England states to the Hollywood homes can now be yours. Never published before. Quick, easy ways to decorate your home. Which, I gotta say, I would not pay someone $50 to rewrite my classified ad if that was their writing. Yeah, exactly. That doesn't exactly roll off the tongue there. What do you mean? From the posh New England states to the Hollywood homes.

It can now be yours. But it wasn't all psychic readings and throw pillows, Brandy. Sharon also dabbled in the darker side of the internet. The dark web? The dark web existed at the beginning of the web? No, I did not say dark web. You said the darker side. Oh, okay. I'm sorry.

Calm down. Keep your pants on. a dark web just said the darker side okay calm down keep your pants on under the name nancy carlson she sold her use sounds pretty dark doesn't that sound like a church going middle-aged woman nancy this potato salad is just great. Can I get that recipe? No. Under the name Nancy Carlson, she sold her used, unwashed underwear online. Oh, shit. To totally normal guys who weren't weird at all. Yeah.

Huh. She also marketed porn, which was something I didn't know needed to be marketed. Yeah, is there a... People aren't interested, so you really got to sell it. You got to be like, please, please, these hot naked people. You're going to enjoy it. I swear, if you just give it a chance. Give porn a chance.

All we are saying. And she sold porn, too. In her article, Rachel Bell wrote that Sharon, quote, sold videos of unconscious women having sexual intercourse, which... Okay. Hip hop. Yep. If they are unconscious, they are not having intercourse. Yeah.

No shit. It's like, damn, I know that article was written a while ago, but hold on. You've just described rape, Rachel Bell. Yep. Sure is. Yeah. In case anyone has teleported from 1996, you guys should know, if you're unconscious, it's not sex. It's rape.

It's rape. No, if you're unconscious, it's not sex. Yeah. It's rape. It's rape. In 1996, Sharon ran an ad for one of her videos that read, in part, Just made a video of actual women, willing and unwilling to be knocked out, drugged, under hypnosis, and chloroformed. Never before has a film like this been made that shows the real beauty of the sleeping victim.

Ugh. It's only $19.99. You want it? Act now and we'll throw in a set of Ginsu knives. Don't you dare besmirch the Ginsu knives. I actually, just for the first time, the last time I washed my hands in your kitchen, realized that your knife set is a Ginsu knife set. And you know how we got that? By buying this porn?

Yeah, we bought this porn. We were like, oh, unconscious women? Chloroformed? Sign me up. Got no issues with that. Sounds wonderful. And knives. Well, I mean, you know, you'd be crazy to pass up that deal.

That's right. And so you didn't. Okay, so I do want to pause here. Yeah. Because some, you know, like Rachel Bell's article said she sold porn. Eventually, an investigation will show she advertised stuff, but she, like, there was no evidence she ever sold her used underwear online. And I'm not bringing that up as in like, don't worry, guys, because I don't give a shit if someone sells their used underwear online.

I'm saying it more to kind of defend Sharon a little bit because initially from some of these articles, I was like, whoa, was Sharon filming this stuff and producing it and sending it out? You think it's more like a lot of talk, no action type of situation? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the Internet's a new thing.

Yeah. She's on it. She's exploring her sexuality. Yeah. She's posting stuff and getting responses back from people, and it's exciting to her. I think she also took some money because people were pretty pissed about some fraud. Okay. Which I'm going to say, you don't have much of a leg to stand on if you're like,

excuse me, I paid you for money of a rape video, and then I didn't get my rape video. You never delivered. One star. That's like calling the police when your drug dealer doesn't come through. I saw that episode of Cops. That was really enlightening. Bottom line is, Sharon was super into the Internet and super into chat rooms. And in the early days of the Internet, chat rooms were everything.

You could get in there and be whoever you wanted to be, Brandi. Yeah, I heard that Brad Paisley song about it. Sing some. I don't know. So much cooler online. I don't know. I'm so much cooler online. Oh, I can't sing any more of it either. I know people are disappointed. People are super upset. That's what they come here for. Yeah, for Brad Paisley songs from 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Sorry, guys. Don't leave a nasty review.

We'll learn it. You could talk to people from all over the world. And in the mid-90s, that was a totally new concept. Yeah, and you guys aren't going to believe this. Everybody on the internet in this time, super hot. Everyone was 5'6 and 120 pounds, as you're about to find out. Brandi, I can tell by the look on your face that you're very confused by the internet and what it is exactly. So let me read to you from an article that ran in the Raleigh News and Observer in 1996. Here's how they explained the internet to their dear readers. The interwebs?

The World Wide Web, ma'am. Anybody with a relatively inexpensive computer and adequate software can travel the Internet, which is not so much a destination as it is a method for communicating with other computer users virtually anywhere in the world. Wow. Can you imagine? Do you understand? Does that help you a little bit? I think I've cleared it up. Okay. Okay. In this brand new wild west of the internet, Sharon got to explore her sexuality. The woman whose high school classmates had called her as normal as you can get, spent

her days in the chat rooms of some of Brandy's favorite websites like Fetishfeet.com, Sexbondage.com, and of course, Amazon Women Admirers. We all been there. No one more frequently as Brandy, though. The chat rooms Sharon frequented were not for the faint of heart. These were not places where people would pop in and be like, Mmm, sex is fun, hashtag horny. No, these were chat rooms where people were into the more hardcore shit. Bidet's.

If you could imagine such freaks. Imagine if you were sitting across from someone. From a bidet user. With their suspiciously clean butthole. Why do you need it that clean, huh? What are you doing with that thing? No. You're in a butthole-looking contest, obviously.

Obviously, that's why I would enter. This was for the hardcore people. This is where people would jump in and be like, Mmm, sex is really fun and hashtag super horny. No kidding. No, the chat rooms that Sharon enjoyed were places where people could talk about necrophilia and sadomach... Sadomach... How do I say kissing? Thank you. Clearly, I'm really into it. necrophilia and sadomasochism.

Thank you. Clearly I'm really into it. And a bunch of other stuff that makes me super uncomfortable. So squeamish. We dabbled in this, not in BDSM, but in your uncomfortability around it in the John Robinson episode. Yeah, we sure did. I got to say, it's the necrophilia that's just got me like, oh.

Do we have to? In those chat rooms, Sharon had a ball. She had all these different identities. Gag in her mouth. Okay. Jesus Christ. You guys, Brandi is so proud. Which works out great on the internet because your hands are still free for typing.

She could be whoever she wanted to be. She could be a 300-pound dominatrix. She could be a porn star who'd make you your own custom video. She could be 5'6 and 121 pounds, just like me. Don't Google me. By November of 1996, Sharon had a fantasy that she could not stop talking about. She had a fascination with being tortured to death. Oh my gosh. So some of Sharon's messages actually alarmed the community, so much so that a sex rights activist named Tanith reached out to Sharon. Tanith was concerned because Sharon's messages had gotten, like, really graphic.

According to her, Sharon was, quote, going to chat rooms and asking to be tortured to death. Oh, my gosh. going to chat rooms, and asking to be tortured to death. Oh, my gosh. So Tanith talked to Sharon in what I'm sure was a very nonjudgmental, sex-positive way and was like, hey, freak, cut it out. And Sharon said no. She said, quote, I want the real thing.

I did not ask for you preaching to me. Wow. So, I mean, what can you do? Tanith backed off. And Sharon continued to do her thing, and she kept talking about how she wanted someone to torture her to death. And, of course, a bunch of the dudes in the chat room were like, hell yeah, I'll torture you to death. Sign me up. And Sharon was like, great, let's do it for real.

And they were like, oh, shit, are you serious? BRB, TTYL, Lylas. But not everyone saw Sharon's messages and backed away slowly from their computer. One guy was into it. And that guy was Robert Bobby Glass. You know, Kristen, I just had to point out that someone recently asked where all your weird sex stuff cases are gone. Here it is. It's all here.

And you just went balls out with this one. Sure did. Balls all the way out. Dick to the wind. Yeah, I mean this This is just non-stop weird sex stuff Yeah I mean if you haven't gotten

Got the vibe by now I think we've picked up the vibe by now Bobby was 45 When you were writing this Were you like My parents listen to this podcast I sure was I sure was

And they're so proud of me. Bobby was 45, and he lived in Lenore, North Carolina, and he was a computer analyst for his local county government. Bobby was a pretty normal guy. He was a member of the Rotary Club, and he'd worked for the county for about 16 years. He was a good employee. He'd been married to his wife, Sherry, for 14 years. He was not a good husband, though.

Sherry was frustrated because Bobby seemed more interested in his computer than in their marriage, which is a theme in all of my weird sex cases. than in their marriage, which is a theme in all of my weird sex cases. And man, somewhere along the way, he'd lost interest in her entirely. He was just so obsessed with the computer. What the hell was he doing on that damn computer, Brandy? What was he doing? I think he was in chat rooms telling Nancy Carlson or whatever her name was that he was going to torture her to death.

Not yet, but yeah, you get the vibe. Sherry decided to find out what he was doing. So one day she got on his computer and found some emails that he'd saved on a floppy disk, which I'm sure is an alarming turn to anyone who was born. Many people who listen to the podcast have no idea what that is. The messages were raw, violent, and disturbing, and they freaked her out. That sounds like a porn tagline, Kristen. Okay, well, I'm sorry.

I'm not in the field of marketing for porn. That's just how Sherry described what she saw. Excellent. This was how she discovered that her mild-mannered IT guy husband was masquerading online under names like Slow Hand and Toy Man. Oh. Gross, right? Yeah. I mean, why not Tall Hot Blonde?

Why not, you know, like, anyway. And he was being super sexual with all these random strangers. So one night she confronted Bobby, and all the color drained from his face. And that's when she knew, oh, shit, there's another side to this guy I married. There is another side to the father of my three children. Oh, my gosh. The timeline here is a little murky. I think Sherry stuck it out for a little while. But then one day one of her kids asked her why daddy didn't love her anymore.

And she was like, okay, that's it. This is bad. I know it's bad. Now my kids know it's bad. Something has to change. So she and Bobby separated, and Sherry and the three kids moved out of the house. It was a few months after this separation that Bobby and Sharon met online. They were a match made in heaven.

He loved to eat. She loved to cook. She loved to sing. He loved to hear her sing. He loved to inflict pain for sexual gratification, and she loved to be in pain for sexual gratification. You know how it goes. Yeah, the classic story.

Yeah. Over the course of a few months, Bobby and Sharon emailed each other nonstop. Sharon told him that she wanted to be tied up and strangled as she orgasmed. She said she wanted him to fulfill her fantasy. You guys should see the look on Brandy's face. She is absolutely horrified, maybe holding back vomit. Okay. Bobby was all about it. Here's a fun fact. If you printed out all the emails that

they had sent each other, you'd have 900 pages worth of emails. Oh my gosh. In just a few months. Meanwhile, it's unclear how much Sharon's husband, Victor, knew about all this. It doesn't seem like he knew very much. Maybe he knew about some of her online activity, but, I mean, definitely not the whole thing. Because on October 13th, 1996, Sharon was like, Toodles! Bye, babe. I'm gonna go visit some friends in Georgia. See you later. And he was like, okay. That's Steve's birthday.

Did everyone make note of that? Yes. That's Brandy's stepdad. That's his birthday. Okay. Do we need to back up? She got in her Honda Civic, and she drove to the train station in Baltimore. And I don't mean to shock you, but she did not go down to Georgia looking for a store.

She went to North Carolina. She took the 9.15 a.m. train to Charlotte, North Carolina. And that evening, when her train pulled into the station, Bobby, a.k.a. Slow Hand, a.k.a. Toy Man. Okay, what does Slow Hand mean? I have thought about it too much. I don't like it. I mean, don't you think that's, like, super foreplay? Why'd you ask if you're going to give me that look?

Don't ask these questions. There's no answer you could have given me that would not have resulted in that face I made. You want to explore this with me? I'm willing to go down the road. So he was there waiting for her. I need a man with a slow hand. What's that? I need a lover with an easy hand. What's that? I need a lover with an easy touch.

What song is that? That's obviously where he got this from. Is that some dumb country song? Conway Twitty, Slow Hand. That's for sure where he got it from. This man was a Conway Twitty fan. I can tell you that for sure. I want somebody who will spend some time not come and go in a heated rush.

Okay, then I was absolutely correct, was I not? He's saying he's the four-play king. Okay. I hate it. All right. I just need you to acknowledge that I came with the answer here. Great. Is there a Toy Man song?

Written by Conway Twitty, performed most famously by the Pointer Sisters. Okay. Anyway. Are you trying to move on? Yes, please. So they got in his pickup truck because hashtag North Carolina and drove the 80 miles back to his trailer in Lenore. And by the way, he lived like a little bit outside of Lenore.

What do you think that conversation was like? Okay. I've got some more stuff to tell you and then we need to pause and have this discussion. Okay. Okay, I've got some more stuff to tell you, and then we need to pause and have this discussion. Okay, so Lenore is a cute, small town right near the Blue Ridge Mountains, but Bobby's trailer was not cute. There was garbage everywhere, inside and outside, and I guess Bobby Slowhand was too busy talking about strangling people while they come to run the sweeper or spray some Windex because this place was nasty. It was nasty. So, yeah, no, that's what I want to know, too. You show up for, like, oh, I don't know, a couple days of, you know, just nonstop kinky sex.

And then the place is a dump. Barbage heap. Wait, how long had he been in this trailer? Because, like, he just divorced his wife, right? Well, so they separated. And it seems like the whole family had lived there, and she took the kids and left. Oh, okay. So he'd been on his own for several months, which the dirt can pile up, I think.

But here's the thing. I think, you know, Sharon got on that train. It was all day. It was, like, she got on in the morning. I think it arrived know, Sharon got on that train. It was all day. It was like she got on in the morning. I think it arrived in Charlotte at like 8 something that night. Then they drove 80 miles in his pickup truck. I mean, you're not going to be like, oh, just kidding. This is fucking disgusting because it's a very isolated place.

There's like 12 people who live in this town he was in. Yeah. Whew. Yeah. Okay. So she decided she was going to do it in the filth. Well, we don't really know. Okay. Sharon and Bobby went in, and something happened, and days passed.

Meanwhile, Sharon's husband, Victor, was of course still in Maryland, thinking Sharon was hanging out in Georgia with some friends, but he hadn't heard from her. More days passed. Finally, a week went by, and that's when Victor discovered a note. It was from Sharon. In it, she wrote that she wasn't coming back home. She asked him not to go after her killer. And she wrote, quote, if my body is never retrieved, don't worry. Know that I'm at peace.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So she was legit going through with this thing. Apparently this is a fetish that people have. I can't remember. And you don't think

people like having poison ivy put on their butthole. Brandi, we have discussed this before. I took that stance when I was covered in poison ivy. Now that I've recovered, I believe that anyone can be into anything. And, I mean, yeah, this is a thing people have. The idea of dying excites them. I mean, obviously, S&M, everybody kind of knows about this.

But this is obviously a kick step. Yeah, this is like a very extreme, yeah, fringe version of that. Wow. This is like a very extreme, yeah, fringe version of that. Wow. So Victor read the note and was like, what the hell? He immediately called the police, and the police, I'm sure, made a beeline for the computer, which was in the computer room because it was 1996. Yeah.

Remember computer rooms? I do remember computer rooms. Man, things have changed. For all our younger listeners, every family had one computer. Yeah. And it had its own room. A room dedicated to it. And it was the computer room. Yes.

It didn't take long to figure out that Sharon had gone to meet up with someone in Lenore, North Carolina. So the police called the police in Lenore, and they were like, have we got a story for you? And then the Lenore police went to Bobby's trailer and did an old-fashioned stakeout. They hung out watching Bobby's trailer for days, hoping to see Sharon. What'd they see? Not Sharon. They just saw Bobby, like, doing his normal thing, going to work, coming back. And finally, on October 25th, a judge issued a warrant for them to search Bobby's trailer.

So with Bobby at work, the officers busted into his trailer, hopefully with plenty of Febreze on hand. I looked it up. Febreze was created in March of 1996, so it's possible that they did have it. It's possible they had Febreze. They found some of Sharon's stuff, plus child porn, plus a gun, some drugs, a bunch of bondage paraphernalia, and thousands of floppy disks. But they didn't find Sharon. So they walked the property and about 75 feet from Bobby's home, they saw some suspicious looking dirt. Like a freshly dug grave, Kristen? Wow, you are quick. You are quicker than the AOL dial up in 1996. You are quicker than the AOL dial-up in 1996.

Pew, pew. They only had to dig two feet to find Sharon's body. Her wrists and ankles were bound, and there was rope around her neck. Interestingly, Bobby lived, like, right near the woods, and the police even admitted that if he'd buried Sharon back in the woods, they probably would have never found her. I don't know if Bobby wasn't the brightest bulb or if he thought that this was okay. Who the fuck knows? Maybe it's part of the kink. To get caught?

Yeah, there being a real threat of getting caught or being able to so easily visit the site. Maybe. Or maybe Bobby was just dumb. Or maybe he was dumb. Yeah. They arrested Bobby, obviously, and he told them everything. He said that he and Sharon had gotten back to his home, and for like three days they engaged in rough but consensual sex. He said that Sharon had wanted to be tied up and all kinds of stuff,

and that at one point, with Sharon's consent, he tied a rope around her neck and tightened it as they had sex. And he accidentally strangled her to death. An autopsy essentially backed up what Bobby said. Dr. John Butts, whose name I'm including for fun. No shade to you, Dr. Butts. I'm just 12. Well, and my legal last name is Pitts, so I, you know, it's with sympathy that I mock. So the doctor said that Sharon died from strangulation approximately three days after she got to North Carolina. Tests for torture or mutilation were inconclusive, which I don't know how you test for that. What does that mean? My assumption is it's a visual thing and like either you look like you've been mutilated or tortured or you don't. Of course, I imagine that would be hard to find on someone who like enjoyed S&M.

The DA had everything they needed and more to move forward. This case was unlike any other that had come before it because they had this newfangled thing called email evidence, which had never before been used in a murder investigation. Wow. And in the DA's mind, all these emails weren't evidence of a fantasy. They were evidence of a cold, calculated, premeditated murder. Interesting. Yeah. Should we pause for a second?

What do you think of that? I mean, if you look at it from that side, yeah, you could absolutely see that. It's proof of planning. But there's also proof that it's a consensual. Yeah. I don't know, man. I know. I know.

That's tough. I don't like it. Yeah. But, I mean, in America, even, like, someone who's very, very sick and wants to die, like, that's controversial. You can't just do that anywhere in America. You have to go to certain states to do that, which I think is ridiculous. Right. This makes me more uncomfortable, though.

Yeah. Because lots of things can be talked about in email and seen as hypothetical. Absolutely. And my assumption is, like, yeah, you can talk a big game, but, like, at the end of the day, do you really want to die? Probably not. Oh, my gosh. Whew. I totally understand, like, I've got a terminal illness and I want control of when I die.

But, like, this is my fun sex thing and I really want to die? I don't get that. Not saying it's impossible. I'm die, I don't get that. Not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying I don't get it. Yeah. Yeah, I don't get it either. I'd say the letter that she left for Victor. I know.

That's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To me, that is proof that she went there expecting to not come back. Yeah. And that she was okay with it. Yeah. Which that doesn't really matter in our legal system necessarily.

No. But I think it complicates a first degree murder case. It sure does. So the DA was contending that Bobby had tortured Sharon for three days and then he'd murdered her just like he said he would. By this point, Bobby was like, yikes, I need an attorney. So he hired a guy named Neil Beach. And Neil was like, whoa, those emails are not evidence of premeditation. What we need to look at here is the autopsy report. Judging from the autopsy,

my client is being honest. My client isn't some creep who tortured Sharon nonstop for three days. He said, it is hard for me to believe the woman was tortured for three days if the medical examiner of North Carolina couldn't find any indication of that. It's much easier to understand or picture an accident occurring during sexual activity than it is to conjure up an image of this man as a cold-blooded premeditated killer. I think this is tough because Sharon note, like, well, that's not an accident. No, it's not an accident. But at the same time, I can honestly see Bobby doing this accidentally during rough. Yes.

Like, how much farther can we push it? How much farther can we push it? Yeah. During rough, like, how much farther can we push it? How much farther can we push it? Yeah. Whew. But Bobby was charged with first-degree murder.

Those emails all indicated that Sharon had come to North Carolina to die and specifically for Bobby to kill her. Therefore, this couldn't be an accident. The media circus around this case was insane. So the judge issued a gag order and everyone was like, ooh, kinky. And he was like, no, not that kind of gag order. And everyone was real disappointed. You thought you were the only one with a gag joke here. The media coverage was very much a product of the times.

First, there was like shock about what could be found on the Internet. And then there was talk of, you should never meet up in real life with someone you've met online because you will for sure get murdered. It's true. Yeah. Look at you. I'm a ghost. No, but do you remember, like, for the longest time, online dating? Oh, yeah.

You were taking your life in your hands. Yes. Yeah. Also, I don't like, you know, there were so many articles written about this. And a lot of neighbors of Sharon's were interviewed. And, like, people were like, oh, my gosh. Well, it just shows you don't really know a person. Blah, blah, blah, blah, my gosh, well, it just shows you don't really know a person, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm just kind of like, I think maybe with my 2020 perspective of like, all right, everybody calm down. This was a woman who was like doing sexy stuff online anonymously. She's not like some, she's not like a serial killer. You didn't find out that you live next to BTK. No. Like, it's perfectly fine that she was into making crafts and sending out the home decor stuff, and also she was into sex stuff online. Yeah. Well, and I think that...

I don't think you often know about your neighbor's sexual habits. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nor would you want to. No. No, you know what I was thinking about? That lady who I would see coming out of the shower every day.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. She probably knew that you could see her. I don't think she did. You don't think she was, like, exhibitionist? No. Absolutely not. It was a small window.

Oh. And I just, I don't think she had any idea. There you were looking. exhibitionist? No. Absolutely not. It was a small window. Oh. I, and I just, I don't think she had any idea. There you were looking, you freaking peeping Tom. Is it a peeping Tom if someone's shoving it in my face? So you guys, have I told this on the show? I'm not sure. Okay, so

at our old house, I would you know, when I had my like normal day job, I would wake up at the same time every single day. I would let Peanut out at the same time every single day. And so I'd go out there with Peanut. And the woman whose house backed up to ours, like, she obviously had a set routine as well. And her routine was at the same time that I was letting Peanut out of the house, she was stepping out of the shower. And they had this window in their bathroom, and I saw this woman naked every single day.

Every single day. I think waist up. I didn't see, like, full bush or anything. And I remember telling Norma, I was like, yeah, I keep seeing. And he was like, what? Really? Oh, my God. What time?

But I guess he wasn't super interested. He wasn't super interested because he didn't get up to see. He never got up to see. And also, I think he got some of that porn marketing and was like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my God, there's porn on the internet. Yeah, I don't have to be a peeping Tom. But that's interesting. Do you think that makes me a peeping Tom?

I mean, you weren't looking away, Kristen. I mean, I guess I did see her every single day. Yeah. I wasn't going to change my schedule. That's for sure. I wasn't enjoying it. Does that make it better? I don't know.

Does it? I don't know. I think it does make it better. Yeah, I wasn't being gross about it. I was just like, oh, gosh, that lady really needs a curtain. You didn't tell her. I had never spoken to her before. Was I supposed to it. I was just like, oh, gosh, that lady really needs a curtain. You didn't tell her. I had never spoken to her before. Was I supposed to go over there and be like, hello?

No, you could have written her an anonymous note. Oh, that's even creepier. That's so much creepier. I'm the watcher. I've been watching you get out of the shower. And some nice flowers make your lawn look a little better. No, I, yeah, I talked to her husband, but never her. You didn't want to be like, hey, by the way, I've seen your wife's tits every morning.

Oh, that would have been nice, wouldn't it? What if I'd said something more obscure, like, beige towels, huh? He would have been like, he would have gone inside and he would have been like, what? And then he would have gone to his wife

and been like, the neighbor said something about our beige towels. They would have just been like, what a fucking weirdo. And then like, life would have continued. I wonder if she ever got a,

got a little curtain. Curtain? Got a curtain in there? Yeah, you know, my mom has a window in her bathroom. And it's like right when you come out of the shower. It has frosted glass on it. Well, yeah, most do, right? I mean, that's the thing.

I think that's what made it so shocking. I was like, man, that's not frosted. There's nothing over it. Her house was a backstreet elementary school. Oh, God. Frosted glass probably required my love. If not, everyone in the house would be required to live five miles from her. No, do you remember when we first moved into this house here?

Yeah, I told you. Yeah, that my bathroom, like you could see into it. I said, don't you think people could see right into this bathroom? And you're like, do you think so? Okay. And we made Norm go out and check. Yeah, there was a curtain. Yeah.

And, you know, it's kind of sheer, but not super sheer. So I was like, well, no. And besides, the old owners were here for like 20 years. There's no way. Yeah. They were just pissing the night away. Yeah. You know, well.

Dub thumping. That's right. Turns out they were. So you know what Norman did? Frosted the glass. Frosted the glass. This has all been an ad for Norm's frosted glass. No, so I

don't know. I just want to say about Sharon, there's like, I just think if this were to happen today, the discussion around her would be so different. Oh, I agree. Yeah, so in conclusion, like, I wish her neighbors had just been

a little more calm about this whole thing. Okay. This case dragged on for three years. And in that time, the DA must have lost some confidence in their first degree murder charge because they dropped the charge to voluntary manslaughter. Wow. It wasn't involuntary manslaughter, which I'm sure Bobby wanted, but he decided to take the deal. And in January of 2000, he pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter

plus six counts of second-degree sexual exploitation of a minor because of the child porn they found on his computer. Wow. When Bobby pled guilty, Sharon's husband, Victor, spoke on behalf of the family, which was pretty large because Sharon had been the oldest of four daughters.

And Victor said that they didn't believe Bobby's story about Sharon's death being accidental, but they just really wanted the whole thing behind them. What? What are you making that face for? But he had that letter

that said I'm basically going to die. Yeah, so they're saying we don't believe that it's accidental. We believe he did it on purpose. Okay, but it was consensual. All right. I wish I knew more. They have not spoken at all. And I think part of it is, like, especially, I think at any time, this would be embarrassing. Yeah.

And you're thinking, okay, my loved one lived 35 years. Oh, yeah. And we're super fucking weird about, like, kinky sex. Oh, yeah. In the United States as a whole. Well, and I think anywhere, like, the idea of the idea of like your kink being I want to die. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

That's very extreme. Yes. I don't know. I just I feel kind of bad for them because. Yeah. I wonder how they handled this whole thing. And I think understandably they just wanted to not talk about it. I think, understandably, they just wanted to not talk about it.

Yeah. Yeah, so I think they thought Bobby was full of shit about how this happened as an accident. I think they thought, like, no, this was a planned deal. Mm-hmm. But if it's planned by both parties, that changes it so much. And to me. To me, too. I mean, yeah, it's not the same as someone, like, as any other murder. Yeah.

I think what it comes down to me is, like, I just can't imagine that at the last minute she didn't want to live. Yeah. You know? I get what you're saying. I do get what you're saying. And so, and that's why you just. Yeah. You don't know what happened in that's why you just. Yeah.

You don't know what happened in that filthy trailer. Oh, God. Nor do I want to. No. But there's the possibility that maybe they did have a safe word or whatever. And, like, this was just genuinely what she wanted. And if that's the case, is that okay? Her life, right? I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's not okay in the eyes of our legal system. We know that. No. And I think there would always be part of me that's like, well, is there something mentally wrong there? Of course.

And then we can't, you can't just take someone's word for it. Yeah. That that's what they want. Oh, it makes me so uncomfortable. Oh. So Bobby was sentenced to 36 to 56 months for killing Sharon and 21 to 26 months for the child porn. It was a very light sentence, which took into account the fact that he had no previous criminal record. Then, two years later, two weeks before he was scheduled to get out, Bobby died in prison from a heart attack.

Oh, my gosh. He was 51. Wow. And he'd been a model prisoner. And that's the story of a consensual murder. Oh my gosh. Isn't that wild? It's coconuts. Makes me super uncomfortable. Yeah. Because on the one hand, you kind of want to say, hey, as long as everyone's consenting adults, who cares? But in this case, goddamn. Yeah, and how can you know for sure?

Because even if you consented going into it, yeah, like you said, at the last minute, if she decides, hey, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that makes me so uncomfortable. Yeah, it, yeah. Oh, that makes me so uncomfortable. Yeah, it's terrible. And it makes me really uncomfortable that the story of this woman's life might have been twisted in some way. Because, again, when you look carefully at the wording of what she did online, the word marketing comes up with all this kind of you know i almost called it sketchy stuff again i'm not i'm not judging like the dirty panties thing whatever but like the stuff about like videos of rape yeah that's different to me

than making it selling it for real. Yeah. You enjoy that? Is that good fun for you? Ooh. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot.

Time to talk about the Dollar General. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. A couple of things. Oh, man. This is serious. It is. This story is for, has been recommended to me so many times, basically by anybody who has sat in my chair at the salon and found out I do a true crime podcast. Okay.

Because this murder happened directly across the street. Brandy. Yes. No way. So every person is like, oh my gosh, you have to do the Dollar General murder. So this is for everyone who has ever mentioned that. Also, you better name them all right now. I'm not going to.

I'm going to be pissed. Also, small town disclaimer. Okay. Because this happens in Bonner Springs, which is a small town, and all of the newspapers that covered it are the small town newspapers from around the area. Baser, Tonganoxie, Bonner. What's wrong with that? Nothing.

Nothing is wrong with that. Okay. It's just that it's very limited information from our small town sources. Okay. Seems kind of shady. I just think it means it's all coming from the same perspective is the only. Oh, I see what you mean. I don't think that that's bad.

I mean, this is a pretty cut and dry situation. I just think it's important to mention. Yeah, sure. Don Bell awoke with a start. He looked at the clock. It was after 1 a.m. on November 12, 2005. But his wife, Robin, wasn't in bed with him. He got out of bed and looked through the house, but she wasn't there.

Robin had called him earlier in the evening to let him know that she'd be getting home late from work. She was the manager of the Dollar General in Bonner Springs, and she had said she needed to stay after close to prepare for a visit from the district manager the next day. Robin's store closed at 8 o'clock, though, so when Don went to bed at 9, he worked the early shift as a security guard at Ameristar Casino. He thought Robin would wake him up, you know, an hour later, you know, when she got home from work. But here it was, almost 2 in the morning, and she wasn't home. Don was worried. So he got in his car and drove from their home in Tonganoxie to Robin's store.

He made sure to drive the same route Robin would have. Maybe she'd had car trouble or been in an accident, but there was no sign of Robin or her car along the route. And it's 2005, so there's a chance she doesn't have a cell phone. It seems to me, based on the articles that I read, that he didn't have a cell phone and she didn't have a cell phone. When Don pulled up to the store, he found his wife's Mustang parked in the parking lot. But the store was locked. The lights were on just like they normally were after close. Don looked through the front glass of the store and didn't notice anything looking out of place.

So he knocked on the glass, but there was no response. Don then walked around the back of the building and began banging on the back door and calling Robin's name. He knew her office was in the back near this door. But again, there was no answer. Don was frantic by this point. Something was clearly wrong. So he went to the gas station on the corner and called the police. When the police arrived on the scene, they, now this is a direct quote from an article. Okay. They forced entry into the store. So they really kicked it up a notch here. They cleared the front of the store. No Robin. But there were some things of concern. There was a cart with merchandise in it, like at

one of the registers and like some merchandise had been bagged and there was like an active sale going on on that register. Like the receipt was still sticking out of the register. going on on that register, like the receipt was still sticking out of the register. It was as if something had interrupted that transaction. So the police clear the front of the store and then they exit the building and go around the back. At first, I wondered why they did this, why they didn't just go like into the back of the store. I am wondering if the back of the store was like code secured.

Yeah. So when I worked at Walgreens to go into the back where like the office and stuff was, you had to enter a code into the door to get back there. I'm assuming it's a similar situation here. Probably most retail. I would guess so. Right. So they leave through the front door and go around the back to that back door. And again, they force that door open. What they found inside the back door was gruesome. There was blood everywhere. In the back portion of the store, which I believe is made up of like an office, a storage room, probably a break room, maybe a bathroom. In that area, there was like drops of blood on pretty much everything.

Yeah. And then as they turned toward the storage room, they saw a pair of legs sticking out of the doorway. Oh. There was also like a trail of blood out the back door. Mm-hmm. When they looked into the storage room where they had seen the feet, there on the floor lay Robin Bell's dead body. She was bloody and disfigured.

Officers who worked this case called it the worst crime scene they'd ever been to. So we actually had a girl who worked at the tanning salon whose dad was a retired police officer at the time she worked for us, he worked this case. And he said it was the worst scene he'd ever seen. Yeah. They said it was just the most gruesome scene. But the details of the murder, including the manner of death, were kept under wraps. Even from Robin Bell's family. I think this would be really hard.

So this, okay, they made this decision because there wasn't much physical evidence at the scene, but the manner of death was unique. And the lead detective on the case, Vicki Fogarty, knew the details would be crucial to finding who did it and being able to prove it. So Robin's family was told that she was beaten to death. And that's all the detail they got at the time. Do you not like that? I think it would be really difficult to not know what happened to your loved one. But you would know. They'd been beaten to death.

Yes, but they find out the more gruesome details of it at trial later. And I think it's just a long time to go with a lot of questions. Yeah, yeah. I think just me knowing how I think I want to know exactly what happened, and I think I would have had a really hard time with being like, we can't tell you exactly what happened. It's bad. She was beaten. It wouldn't be enough for me.

I would hate it. I think you'd hate it no matter what. Of course. Of course. Yes. Bonner Springs, like I said, is a small town, and the detectives didn't have much experience with this kind of crime. So the Kansas City Metro Squad was called in. The Metro Squad was made up of 14 of the most seasoned investigators in the Kansas City metro area.

They investigated some 150 leads, like, in the first week. But none of them went anywhere. Obviously, Robin's husband, Don, was the first suspect. While there was like an undisclosed amount of money missing from the store, detectives didn't think

this was just a robbery. No, for a brutal beating like that. Exactly. And you don't go to Dollar General for your money. Uh-huh. The murder, like you said, was brutal brutal beating like that. And you don't go to Dollar General for your money. Uh-huh. The murder, like you said, was brutal. It seemed personal.

Could the robbery have been like a ruse to cover up a more personal motive? But Don was cleared pretty quickly. It was very obvious that he'd had no involvement in his wife's murder. So then detectives worked to track down Robin's ex-husband, the father of her adult daughter. But neither she nor her daughter had seen him in over 20 years. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And there was no one that anybody could point to as like a potential enemy of Robbins.

She just wasn't that type of person. Right. The investigation stayed open, but a year later, they were no closer to solving it than they had been the night it happened. A $15,000 reward was offered for information leading to the arrest of Robyn's killer.

$10,000 of that came from Dollar General. $1,000 came from the casino where Don worked. And the other 4,000 came from, like, friends and family donations. It seems wild to me that in a town this small, a murder that brutal, that there wouldn't be more suspects that just pop up easily. I know. I agree. Because this wasn't random.

Yeah, you wouldn't think so. Okay. Yeah, and you'd think in a small town like this, yeah, you'd have a list of people that— Here's the local weirdos. Right, exactly. On the anniversary of Robin's murder, the community held a fundraiser in order to increase the reward. By this time, Don had moved out of the house that he'd shared with Robin. He said it was just too hard to continue living there.

And he said at that time that he'd continue having these fundraisers every six months to try and increase the reward as long as he had to. The family found it frustrating that no progress was being made in the case and admitted that as more time passed, the less likely it seemed to them that it would ever be solved. Yeah. Her daughter made a statement in one of these articles about how she was really frustrated and how she wished that she had the skills to just investigate her mom's murder herself. Yeah. Which I think is how anybody would feel in that situation. Vicki Fogarty, who was the lead detective on the case, said she understood the family's frustration because she was frustrated too.

But she truly believed that this case could be and would be solved. She called it her career case, the one she knew she would never forget. She and her department worked on the case every day. She read every note from the early investigation over and over, looking for anything she'd missed, a puzzle piece that might send them in a new direction. At one point, detectives on the case even traveled to the FBI headquarters in Quantico to present the case to the BAU, which is the Behavioral Analysis Unit, and then they provided them a profile of the killer. According to this profile, the murderer would have displayed these traits in the weeks after the murder. The murderer would have extra

money. They would have anxiety. They'd be showing an unusual amount of stress. They'd be missing work, missing appointments, and they likely would have gotten rid of a vehicle or had a vehicle detailed following the murder. And they would be increasingly using drugs or alcohol. OK. At some point, and I'm unsure if this was before or after the profile was released or given to the detectives, they made an arrest of a former Dollar General employee. This arrest was actually not related to the murder. It was a theft that had occurred before the murder that they had uncovered basically in this investigation.

Yeah. So they arrest this former employee and he becomes a person of interest in the case because like there's been this theft. And it was like $1,600 that had been stolen from Dollar General. So they link it back to him. They arrest him. Like that case is moving forward. Like, there's been this theft. And it was like $1,600 that had been stolen from Dollar General. So they link it back to him. They arrest him. Like, that case is moving forward. And they're like, okay, is that a motive?

Like, did Robin figure it out? But he was eventually cleared. Twenty-two months went by. Oh, man. Months went by. Oh, man. And then, as if it was a gift from the universe, the murderer fell into Detective Fogarty's lap. Was she a mall Santa? She was.

It's like a volunteer gig on the side. Can you imagine if that really was it and I had just guessed it? No, she wasn't a mall Santa. And I didn't say it literally fell into her lap, Kristen. It figuratively fell into her lap. All right, I'm very sorry for her. It was September of 2007. And Fogarty was still working on the case, obviously. But she received a report about this runaway named Krista Lewis.

So she's looking into this runaway case. It's completely unrelated to the Dollar General case. When this guy, Robert Haberlein, calls the police station to talk about the runaway Krista Lewis. He says, that's my girlfriend. She's not missing. Like, she's fine. She left because she wanted to. But she's a minor and he's not. Okay. So to clear it all up, they ask Robert to come into the station. And, you know, bring Crystal with you while you're at it. Yeah, come on in, weirdo. Come on in.

And so they do. They come in. One detective sits down with Crystal Lewis, and then Vicki Fogarty is asked if she'll sit down and talk to Robert Haberlin. Haberline? Haberlane, I don't care. So she does. She sits down with him, and she's not really sure, like, what it is that he's going to tell her. I mean, this isn't, like, some big mystery. It's a runaway, and they have her here now.

Like, obviously she's in a probably legal relationship. I don't know exactly how old she is at this time, but he's an adult and she's a minor. But what happens is Robert spends the next three hours basically bragging to Detective Fogarty about his criminal record. What? Mm-hmm. Talks about all the shit he's done and he's been in and out of juvie and all this stuff. And then he slipped. And he started talking about a homicide in Bonner Springs that his uncle had been involved in.

A homicide in Bonner Springs that his uncle had been involved in. And then he said something that made Fogarty basically jump out of her skin. He said he even used a broom. This was a detail of the murder that had never been released to the public. Never been released to anyone. She said she like felt like she had like basically what I would have called, like, an out-of-body experience. Right, right, right. Where she's like, holy shit, holy shit, holy shit. And she just lets him keep talking.

And he just keeps on talking, keeps on talking. Talks about how it was his uncle and how he might have been there, you know, just on lookout that night. But that was it. But he keeps giving detail after detail about this crime. And he basically, he digs himself this huge hole. And what follows is an investigation that unravels this entire robbery plot and murder case. So he's just, like, telling everything, bragging for whatever fucking reason. This man is the biggest idiot.

An idiot. In the other room, Crystal Lewis is talking. And she's also spilling the beans about this murder. What? They come in about a missing persons case. I don't know what they thought they were going to come in and clear up with that. But they both end up talking about this murder case. Oh, my God.

So she talks about how she had been she'd been dating Robert Haberlin and how she had knowledge that he had participated in a robbery at the Dollar General. She said there were two other people involved, guy john backus and this girl amber russell they had all been the four of them had all been friends and they talked about planning a robbery for like a few days they'd even gone to a bunch of businesses in bonner springs to stake out which location would be the best and they decided on dollar general because it didn't have security cameras. So the night of the robbery, Robert Haberlin, John Backus, and Amber Russell show up to pick up Crystal Lewis, and she decides she's not going. She doesn't want to be involved in the actual robbery, but she gives them the keys to a friend's car so that they can take a car that doesn't belong to them.

How generous of her. Yes. And then they leave and, I guess, go pull off this robbery. Yeah. And they come back to her house the next day, and they watch the news and, you know, all the coverage about the robbery and this murder, and they threaten her, and they say, you know, obviously you weren't there, but you knew about it. And if you tell anybody anything,

we'll do to you what we did to her. And then they also gave her some of the money that they had stolen from the store in exchange for letting them use the car. So this story essentially nets them two more suspects. Yeah. She's named two other people. And so they track both of those people down.

And they bring in this Amber Russell. Amber Russell is like 15 at the time that this happens. And she's dating Robert Haberlin at the time. And he was like 17. So. Okay. I mean, it's not great still, but. Oh, I think that's fine.

15 and 17. I mean, they met at high school, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. So she gets there and she, they ask her, you know, they ask her to come in. They want to talk to her about, you know, her name's been brought up in regards to this robbery. And so she comes in and she talks to them and they're like, we know you were involved. And they read her her Miranda rights and she agrees to tell them everything she knows. And so she said that that night they had planned the robbery for some time, a few days.

And the whole thing was apparently intended, which I don't know how accurate this is, but this is what Amber tells them. Okay. Amber tells the police that her family was having money troubles. And so this was her friend's idea to go rob this store and then give the money to her family so that they could, you know, get out of whatever hole they were in. Give me a break. I agree. Okay. that they could, you know, get out of whatever hole they were in.

Give me a break. I agree. Okay. And so she tells them that they arrived there at that Dollar General that night and that they had planned to rob it. And she knew that they were going there with the intention to rob it. But when they pulled up in the parking lot, they said, she was told by Robert Haberlin, there's something more serious that's about to happen. And if you tell anybody, I'm going to kill you.

And so from that moment on, Amber thought she didn't have any choice but to follow along with what they were doing. So when they entered the store, Amber and Robert pretended to shop. While John went to the back of the store, like posting up to keep whoever was working there from going to the back maybe, they gathered stuff into a cart and they made sure to go in right at closing time. And they waited for any other customers who might have been there to leave. I think that they made sure no one else was in the store before they entered. Yeah. But I don't – I'm not positive about that. So they went up to the cash register, took the items that they'd gathered and, you know,

had the, had Robin begin to ring up a sale and bag them up. And when she was like halfway through doing that, Robert Haberlin pulled out a gun and pointed it at Robin Bell's forehead. And he told her to give him all of the money from the register. And so she did what he said. She opened the drawer and she gave him the money. But he got pissed because they were the very last customers of the night. She'd already done her drawer drop.

And so there was only fives and ones in the drawer. Oh, God. Yeah. So there was only fives and ones in the drawer. Oh, God. Yeah. So he goes around the register, grabs her arms behind her back, holds a gun to her and says, take me to the safe. I want more than this.

And so he takes her towards the back of the store. And when they are out of sight from Amber Russell, she tells the police that she hears screaming and she hears a gunshot. And so she goes back to the back. And at this point, they're going through the back door to the back office area. And Robin Bell is standing there at the safe. And she's been shot. She's bleeding. And they're demanding that she opens the safe and get the money out. And she's doing as they're asking her to

do. She's complying completely. Yeah. She gives them the money and then the way that they had something was set up. I don't know if Robin had the back door propped open maybe. But the back door of the store was open.

And so Robin sees an opportunity to run from the office out the back door. And she does. She runs and they go and grab her and drag her back into the store. Oh, my God. They pull her into a storage area and then this is when they begin basically torturing her. Oh, my God. They beat her with every item they find in that storage room for 10 minutes. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

It's horrible. At one point, she looks at Amber Russell, who is a 15-year-old girl that's standing there, like, watching this happen in front of her, and she's doing nothing about it. And she says, please, help me. Yeah. And Amber says, I can't.

Yeah, I mean, she's a 15-year-old girl. Yeah. Well, and was 13 at the time of the robbery? No, she was 15 at the time of the robbery. Okay, okay. Yeah. Oh, God. At the time of the robbery. No, she was 15 at the time of the robbery.

Okay, okay. Yeah. Oh, God. They took a step stool and they bashed her head in with it. What the fuck? To the point that the rubber cap on the bottom of it was found at the back of her skull. What's the point of this? What is the point of that?

What is the point of that? So these are the details that were never released. She was beaten with a step stool. She was beaten with a tripod. She was beaten with a broom. These were the things that were never released because only the killer would know them. So she tells this story and she's got all of these details. So they know.

Yeah, they know she was there. Like this is the real story. They then, she then tells police that they then tried to clean up the storage area some, some, I don't know why. Yeah. Maybe what they did was they, I think they cleaned up the area like outside of it. So if you entered the store from the front, you wouldn't know until you went into the back area. Sure. I don't know.

Anyway, they did that. They picked up the money that Robin had bagged up for them. I mean, what was it, like a couple hundred bucks? Like, I think they got less than $2,000. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, out of the drawer they got nothing, and then when they went and had her get money out of the safe, I think they got close to $2,000. Yeah, obviously money was not the motive.

Yeah. They claim it is. Bullshit. I know. Bullshit. Anyone who does this, you did this because you wanted to brutally murder someone. That's the thing that I think is just the most heinous and disgusting thing about this crime. These people did not know her.

It, like, they have no connection to her at all. They picked a store that they thought would be easy to do something in because it had no security measures and they knew someone would be working by themselves. That's disgusting and terrifying. You'd rather it be someone they know? No, I just think that when you're talking about a murder this heinous, you automatically assume that it's personal. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So then they go and they get in the car. They ball up their, like, bloody clothes in the back of the trunk. And then they drive through McDonald's and pick up some dinner. You go through that McDonald's all the time? Sure do. Gosh, can you imagine being one of those McDonald's employees? I know. Knowing that you served them?

Yeah. Wow, that'd be weird. Yeah. Okay, so in this article, in like one of these articles, they say that they parked the car across the street and walked over to the store. Yeah. My salon is across the street. There's not that much across the street. I wonder if they parked it like in our parking lot.

Probably. Probably. Probably. Probably. I've also gone to that McDonald's. Yeah. I show up a little early and it's time for iced tea because I don't learn my lessons. So Amber continues to tell the police, you know, the next day her mother heard them talking about the robbery and told them to stop talking about it. Don't let anybody hear you. And she helped them get rid of the evidence. She drove them to dump the gun over a bridge into the river, and she helped them burn their bloody clothes.

Of course she did. Mm-hmm. And in exchange, they gave her the money that they had stolen. Anyone? Oh. Mm.hmm. And in exchange, they gave her the money that they had stolen. Anyone? What do you got? I'm just thinking anyone who raises people who would do this, they're a piece of shit too. Yeah, I just can't imagine overhearing your kid talking about doing this and your first reaction is not to call the police. My first reaction would be to call a defense attorney.

I'll be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. But, yeah, it would not be, oh, you murdered some innocent woman. Let me help you. Yeah.

Oh, cool. I get a couple hundred bucks yay me yeah by the way i know it's not fair to say that every shithead has shithead parents right it's i'm just being honest with what i'm thinking folks right right. So Amber Russell was arrested. Robert Haberlin was arrested. John Backus was arrested. Crystal Lewis, as far as I can tell, never faced any charges for her involvement in this. Did she cooperate? She did.

Oh, there you go. She cooperated, and she wasn't there at the— Yeah. Yeah. Amber Russell was given a deal, too, because they didn't believe that she actually ever was involved in the actual murder. Yeah. Amber Russell was given a deal, too, because they didn't believe that she actually ever was involved in the actual murder. Yeah. She was given a deal. She wasn't given immunity, but they agreed to try her in juvenile court.

Mm-hmm. As I mentioned, it was a long time before Robin's family ever knew what happened to her. In fact, they didn't find out until a pretrial hearing. happened to her. In fact, they didn't find out until a pre-trial hearing. The prosecutor's office actually called them and asked them to come in the day before the pre-trial hearing so that they could tell them what they were going to hear. And they had gone. Don had gone with one of his daughters, but he hadn't been able to handle it. He'd walked out of the prosecutor's office. Yeah. And so the first time that he heard in its entirety what had happened to his wife was at a pretrial hearing. This hearing was held to determine if Robert Haberlin would be tried as a juvenile or an adult.

So he was 17 at the time of the murder. And Amber Russell testified at this pretrial hearing to all of the gruesome details of the crime. And a medical examiner testified about their findings. And a judge ruled that because of the nature of the crime and because Robert Haberlin had a violent juvenile record, he would be tried as an adult. So Robert Haberlin was officially charged with first-degree murder aggravated kidnapping and aggravated robbery and John Backus the other man who was involved did the same thing he was 18 at the time so there was no question if he'd be tried as a juvenile or an adult and as I mentioned Amber Russell was given a deal if she agreed to testify against Haberlin and Backus. It was decided that they would be tried separately.

Robert Haberlin was the first to be tried, and his trial began in May of 2008. In her opening statement, Wyandotte County Deputy District Attorney Cheryl Lidke told the jury, Robin Bell was at a point in life when things were beginning to look up for her. A few hours before her death, Bell had seen a sonogram of her grandson.

Oh. She was in the prime of her life. And that night, Veterans Day 2005, her life came to a tragic end. Her life came to a tragic end. Haberlin's defense attorney barely gave an opening statement, but she said, There's no contest that Robin Bell died a gruesome death, but all prosecutors have are inconsistent witness statements. There are so many inconsistencies that they cannot support the claim that Robert Haberlin is guilty. Admittedly, there's no physical evidence tying Robert Haberlin to the murder. There is only other people's words putting them there and himself.

He said he had knowledge of the murder that only the murderer would have. Yeah. He said he had knowledge of the murder that only the murderer would have. Yeah. At the beginning of the trial, a graphic video was shown to jurors. It was basically a walkthrough of the Dollar General as the police found it that night. There were like the little, you know, the little tent things with, you know, the evidence markers.

I don't know what they're called, but those were all over the store basically showing all of these blood droplets that were all through the main part of the store. And then there was just the entire bloody scene

in the back. And that was the first time that Don Bell saw his wife's body as it had been found. Oh, God. Don Bell was the first time that Don Bell saw his wife's body as it had been found. Oh, God. Don Bell was the first to testify at the trial. He described the night, how he'd woken up and Robin hadn't been there and he'd gotten up and driven to the store and called the police and all of that.

The next to testify was an officer who had attended Robin's autopsy. This part, during his testimony, he talks about everything that happened to her. And I'm not going to go into the details. It's terrible and horrible. And it's available online if you want to know. He talks about all of the things that were done to her. He talks about all of the things that were done to her. And at this time, the jury is getting pictures of the autopsy, close-up shots of the damage that was done to her.

And the defense objected to this. They said that it would prejudice the jury. And they called some of the pictures repetitive. And so they did end up removing two of the pictures from, like, the packets that the jurors were seeing. But I don't know that that's going to make much of a difference. A forensic pathologist also testified regarding the injuries. He identified a couple of things that weren't like visible on the autopsy. So she had defensive wounds. She had broken fingers, broken ribs. There was also a shot to her head. They had attempted to shoot her in the head, essentially, and the bullet had lodged between her scalp and skull.

Oh, God. Yeah. It was, like, literally sitting. I didn't know that could happen. I didn't know that could happen either. Oh. I think she was shot with a.22, which is like the smallest caliber of bullet. But, yeah.

He said he identified 48 separate injuries to Robin's body. But he couldn't tell what order they had occurred in or which had caused her death. Sure. Which had caused her death. He said that ultimately he had decided that Belle's cause of death was extensive crush injuries. Amber Russell took the stand and testified to all the stuff that she had told the police about. You know, she walked them through the whole night. And then her mother testified as well about helping them get rid of the evidence the next day and how she'd gotten money in return for doing that.

By this point, she had actually taken a deal as well. She'd pled guilty to aiding a felon, and she received 18 months probation in exchange for her testimony. Hmm. That's nothing. They need her testimony. They do need her testimony. That's what it all comes down to. Yeah. The defense called only one witness.

They called Robert Haberlin. He testified that he was at his mom's house that night. He wasn't there. Okay. He also said that, you know, those interviews that he'd done with Detective Fogarty where he basically confessed to the crime. All jokes. He had been on cocaine and he was also off of his medication for his mental problems. I don't know what medications those are.

As for all of the details that he knew of the crime. Yeah. Those were fed to him by the detective. Well, that does happen. It absolutely happens. It absolutely happens. I don't think it happened here. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. We know it happens. We know it happens all the time. And I don't think he has any other defense. No. Than to say that. No, that's all he's got Yeah

Yeah Ultimately, he was found guilty Of first-degree murder, aggravated robbery, and aggravated kidnapping John Backus' trial happened right after this And it was a carbon copy Yeah Other than I don't think that John Backus I could not find any way that John Backus testified in his own defense.

Well, yeah, because it's pretty stupid. Yeah, I agree. I don't know what the defense raised in his case because here's what I do know. There was some DNA found at the scene. And I never found where they said they were able to link it to one of the defendants, but I did find an article that specifically said they couldn't link it to Haberlin. So then it has to link to Backus, right? Wait, what did they say for sure that it did link to one of them? Yes, they said they found DNA at the scene and that it didn't match Robert Haberlin, but they were able to connect it to someone.

So I assume that means it has to be to John Backus. I would assume Amber. Because they would have mentioned that at his trial, wouldn't they? I don't know. I didn't find it mentioned at his trial. I read the transcript. Yeah, see, I think if you had that kind of a smoking gun, you would mention it at trial. Yeah, I don't know how Amber would have left blood at the scene, though.

It was blood specifically. Do you believe she really didn't do anything to hurt Robin? I did. I don't. Uh-huh. Not necessarily. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it could be. That absolutely could be. I can see it either way. I can see it where she truly was just standing off to the side, not doing anything. Yeah. But I can also see them encouraging her to join in and her joining in. Yeah. What I know comes out of John Bacchus' trial is he is also found guilty, and he later appeals his conviction based on new

evidence, where his dad comes forward and says, oh, yeah, I forgot he was home with me hanging up Christmas decorations. Give me a break. Yeah. I forgot about it at the time of his trial, but I remember now. Uh-huh. Yeah. So, yes, they were both found guilty. In March of 2009, they were sentenced in back-to-back hearings. So March 26, 2009, Haberlin was sentenced first. And immediately his attorney requests that his convictions thrown out on the basis that there is inconsistent witness testimony, which is just kind of a standard thing. And the judge denies it. The deputy district attorney, Cheryl Lidke, argued for life in prison with a hard 50. She said, the murder was like nothing I've ever seen before.

They tortured Bell and beat her to death. They desecrated her body. Haberlin needs to be in prison for the rest of his life. She also read two letters to the court, one from Robin's mother and another from her daughter. She said that the two women had asked her to read the letters because of their overwhelming emotions surrounding the trial. From her daughter, she said, She was more than my mom. She was my close friend.

She never did anything wrong to anyone. She was the glue that held our family together. As this statement was being read, like the entire court is crying, including the deputy district attorney. She had to like stop and like clear her throat and start over. It continued. Robert Haberlin should be locked up for as long as lawfully possible so that no other families have to go through what we have had to these past few years. When you have someone taken from you so gruesomely, it never leaves your mind, no matter how much you try to distract yourself. Before his sentence was handed down, Robert Haberlin was given an

opportunity to make a statement, and he did. He asked for forgiveness. He said, I stand here before Rob and Belle's family. I will stand before the court, and I am sorry for all that has happened. My Lord has held my hand all of the way. Lay down your stones and close your eyes. Oh, fuck off. God bless the hearts of all. Thank you. No.

Please forgive me. No. That is fucking bullshit. Lay down your stones. Lay down your stones. You guys are the wrong ones because you're judging me. Mm-mm. No. That is fucking bullshit. Lay down your stones. Lay down your stones. You guys are the wrong ones because you're judging me, so lay them down. And, oh, I'm using God speak because I'm affiliating myself with God right now. Lay down your stones. Fuck off.

Yeah. Yeah. Lay down your broom, you jackass. No shit. Yeah. Lay down your broom, you jackass. No shit. The judge sentenced Robert Haberlin to life in prison with no chance of parole for 50 years.

I do have to say, though, it's amazing to be condescending while you're the one being sentenced to life in prison. But, yeah, well done on that. Yeah. After he was sentenced, there was a short break, and then John Backus was sentenced immediately behind him. That hearing went exactly the same way. Backus's attorney asked for a retrial saying, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Lidke read the statements from the family again. And Backus was, again, given an opportunity to make a statement just like Haberlin was, but he didn't at first. He just, like, denied any wrongdoing, like, without, like, through his attorney at first.

And then he said, he did ask to make a short statement at the end. He said, as a whole, listening to the witnesses hurt me a lot. These people are lying. And now I'm going to get life in prison for something I didn't do. Okay. It was after that that Don Bell made his first statement of the entire proceedings. He said, I don't believe it. And I don't feel sorry for him.

I feel he should be put away forever. And he was. He was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 50 years the judge when handing down this sentence said this murder was committed in an especially heinous atrocious and cruel manner this is the most brutal case i've seen since becoming a judge 14 years ago following their sentencing, both Haberlin and Backus appealed their convictions on the grounds of

improper juror instructions. They said that the jurors should have been given the opportunity to convict them of the lesser charge of second-degree murder. Okay.

And those appeals were denied. Yeah. It is clearly a case of first-degree murder because even if you want to argue it's not premeditated, which I think it fucking was. Yeah. It is clearly a case of first degree murder because even if you want to argue it's not premeditated which I think it fucking was.

Yeah. It's also the murder in that happened while another felony was. Yeah. What's

what's the terminology there? Oh yeah. Under commission of a felony. Yes. Yeah. Which is another definition of first degree murder.

It's first degree fucking murder. Yeah. Amber Russell, who the prosecution had agreed to try in juvenile court in return for her testimony against both Haberlin and Backus, ended up actually pleading guilty to first degree murder, aggravated kidnapping and aggravated robbery. robbery. She was sentenced on May 13th, 2009 to juvenile lockup until the age of 22, which is less than four years. It was her blood at the scene. You might be right. If, if it had been either of the two guys, that would have been a huge part of the prosecution's case. Mm-hmm. Since it wasn't—assuming you didn't, like, miss one little article somewhere. If it's one of the people that was there, it had to have been Amber.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ugh. Don Bell died in 2013 in his obituary. It said he never healed from the loss of his wife, and he died of a broken heart. What a terrible, senseless murder. Yeah. Less than $2,000.

Yeah, they weren't after the money. I agree. You don't do that for money. It is crazy to me how brutal the crime was for them not to have, there not to be some kind of personal connection to it because that's overwhelming what you see when there's like overkill. Right. That there's a personal connection and there's some, but, or you's, like, overkill. Right. That there's a personal connection.

There's some, but, or you're just, like, disgusting human beings. So that's obviously the case here. Yeah, I mean, disgusting human beings trying to one-up each other. Yeah, that's exactly it. I'm sure they were feeding off of each other. That's what I envision. Yeah. Yeah.

So our salon was there. It was only a tanning salon at the time. We hadn't added the hair salon. Yeah. And this happened while the salon was potentially open for business because this happened sometime shortly after 8 p.m. when the store closed. They went in while the Dollar General was still open. Isn't that wild that it wasn't even that late at night? It wasn't some like 1 a.m. weird thing?

Uh-uh. Ugh. Yep. weird thing. Uh-uh. Ugh. Yep. Horrible. Thank God they were idiots and went in and... Yeah, if they hadn't let all of that information out, they may have never solved this case. They 100% never would have. Yeah.

I mean, two years. Yeah. Two years and never would have. Yeah. I mean, two years. Yeah. Two years and you got nothing. Yeah. The only other way they would have solved it is if they would have, they had that DNA evidence put into the system. If they re-offended. Right. Did something else and got their DNA entered into.

Right. The system, they would have gotten a match at some point. Yeah. I wonder how good they are about keeping up with all that, though. Yeah, that's true. Amber's just out there living her life these days. Probably shouldn't have talked so much shit about her, huh? Both Haberlin and Backus are obviously still in prison.

And Yvette only ever got 18 months probation. It's Amber's mom. Good times. You told that story very well. Thank you. I'd never heard that. That was awful. Yeah.

Like, it's almost comical how often that case is recommended to me. Well, no, it makes sense. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it was funny to hear you say, it's been recommended multiple times. And I'm like, what is she talking about? I have no idea what you were talking about.

Oh, that was awful. Horrible. All right, Brandi, should we answer some questions from our Discord? Yeah, obviously. What do we got in here huh so many questions i'm trying to get to the top oh maggie i am glad you asked brandy what are your thoughts on miley cyrus's mullet i know this is a thing that's coming back with the young kids i hate it miley cyrus's mullet hang on i've got to google this okay miley cy Cyrus'. I'm just saying, Miley Cyrus is cute.

She's great. She's beautiful. She looks good in anything. I don't know that a mullet is it. I mean, she does look good. She does. You know what, though? This is reminding me of when Jennifer Lawrence chopped off all her hair, and, you know, she looks good in anything.

And then I got my hair chopped off, too. I feel like a lot of gals are going to make the mistake of getting the Miley look but not having the Miley face. Dirty Slut Goblin asks, what's your favorite Midwestern Thanksgiving staple? Okay. Mine, by name, does not sound like a Midwestern dish. But when I describe it to you. I know what it's going to be. Sweet potato souffle.

It's the souffle your mom makes. Yes. But it is literally like pureed sweet potatoes with a shit ton of sugar in them. And then it's got basically pecan pie on the top of it. It sounds amazing. It's so fucking good. Do you have a favorite Thanksgiving staple? I mean, I love it all.

Yeah. Do you? What? Thanksgiving staple? I mean, I love it all. Yeah. Do you? What? What? I know you. The judgment on your face. You get, I can just picture it. Okay.

You've got your plate. Yeah. All the food touch. All your shit's touching. And then you take a bite of turkey with like a little bit of stuffing and some gravy and cranberry sauce. Put that all in in one bite. Oh, I'm sorry. Lock me up.

I like to have the perfect bite. That's the perfect bite, Brandy. You're the weird one for not liking that. I will not be shamed. Making my mouth water with that kind of talk. True Crime and Chill says, Brandy, for Thanksgiving, can you please, for the love of all things, give us your cookie recipe? Oh, look at that face. Oh, she's holding back, guys.

It really is the best fucking cookie recipe on earth. It's pretty good. I'm not ready to reveal it yet. What's it going to take? I don't know. Maybe we can make it a Patreon goal or something. Oh, oh, wow. You're such a business cat.

Business cat. Okay, so what? We're going to have to get like 20,000 patrons for you? Yeah, watch guys. She'll make it impossible. No, no. I'm going to lock you down, Missy. We've got 1,400 patrons right now.

Okay. How many patrons do we have to get for you to give away the recipe? Here's the thing. Oh, shit. What? We've talked my secret ingredient up so much. People are going to be real let down when they figure out what my secret is. That or they will make it and realize,

oh my God, this is so great. It's so good. Yeah, I think maybe, I will say, when you first hear it, you go,

huh, okay, and it doesn't feel like that big a secret, but then you make it. And it is. It completely changes the cookie. Okay,

I ask again for the people. What's the fucking number, lady? Oh, gosh. I don't know. Do you want to set a number? Why are you pushing this off on me? Because, you know, I hate making decisions like this.

Obviously, this is a very precious recipe to you. Yeah, it's from Nestle Tulaus. 2000? All right, sure. Wow. Yeah, it's from Nestle Tulaus. 2,000? All right, sure. Wow. Yeah. Okay. I would have gone lower than that, so.

I knew you would have. I had jokes on you suckers. Well, say the number. Say the number. What's the number? When we get 1,700 patrons. Okay. I will release the hounds.

Very good. Very good. Very good. You'll release the recipe, and then that month we'll do a video. Yeah. Okay, yeah. All right, all right. Because there's also... What?

There's a secret ingredient, plus there's a prep step that's important as well. You got to clean your butthole. Stop it. I'm sorry, different prep step. I'm sorry. Tiana wants to know, have your holiday plans changed because of COVID? No, not at all. No, we're still getting together with hundreds of our loved ones. No, they've absolutely changed and it sucks. You know what? I was just talking about this with one of my clients. It's like my grandparents still haven't met London because of COVID.

That's really sad. Yeah. Lisa's parents live in Iowa. They haven't met London. My grandmother, my mom's mom, lives in an assisted living facility, and they've been on lockdown this whole time. Yeah, you can't go there. So she has actually seen London, which my grandparents in Iowa have seen pictures of London. But my mom will take and drop supplies off for my granny, and then she lives on the first floor.

And so she'll walk around to her outside window, and she'll hold London up so she can see her. Yeah. Yeah. God, that is the saddest. It's so sad. Yeah. Wow, way to be a downer. I'm sorry.

Sorry. Wow, way to be a downer. I'm sorry. Sorry. No, but it's, that's the thing is, it's a good thing that our plans have changed. Yeah. Because I'm sure some people, oh my God, okay, so my parents are RVing right now. Yeah. They're stuck in the panhandle of Florida.

Totally unrelated story. You know what bumper sticker they have seen multiple times? What? Joe and the Hoe. Yeah. What? Yeah, so my mom told me that the other day. I was stunned.

I was like, you're kidding me. And she goes, you've not seen that? Really? No. No. What the hell? What kind of person? Holy shit.

Okay, I'm going to answer this question, and then it kind of also answers a couple of other people's questions here. Obsessions with the occult asks, what's keeping you sane and bringing you joy these days? So this kind of answers other people's questions. We put up our Christmas decorations at my house, and we put lights on the outside of my house. And it is bringing me so much joy. I just love it. I come home every night and the Christmas lights

are on and the Christmas tree is lit. And we, um, we in the last year have rearranged our living room. So my Christmas tree is in the front window now, which it's never been before. And I just love it. Yeah. That is bringing me joy. I absolutely get that. I think ever since you said that on the podcast that this year people are putting stuff up earlier. We need whatever joy we can get. Yeah, I need to do that this weekend. Yeah. It is like it's amazing how much it's changed my mood.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Usually I'm such a bitch. Now you're just a little bitch. Oh, Teddy Bonkers. I'd love to tell you. She wants to know what level I'm on in Best Fiends. Good.

Let me see here. I was just playing this this morning. 13. 613, Kristen. Wow. Wow. That's right. That's the sound of everyone being super impressed.

Creaming their jeans. Ew. Carly What's-Her-Butt wants to know, will the new merch sweatshirts be hooded or crewnecks? These are important questions. Hooded. Hooded. Yeah.

Hashtag hoodies. Do you guys want crewnecks? Is that a questions. Hooded. Hooded. Yeah. Hashtag hoodies. Do you guys want crewnecks? Is that a thing? I always go for a hoodie. I have a few crewnecks. I know you're looking at me like, oh, God. Oh, my God. The judgment on this woman's face.

I'm a hoodie snob. I'm legit a hoodie snob. I know you are. I love hoodies, and I have a specific hoodie that's my favorite, which is what we're getting our hoodie snob. I know you are. I love hoodies and I have a specific hoodie that's my favorite, which is what we're getting our hoodie printed on because it's my way

or the highway. Uh-huh. No, I like that brand too. Yeah. But yeah, you were like... If we're making a hoodie, it's this fucking hoodie. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Not Your Average Joe asks, are you guys recording in the same room again or have you gone back to virtual recordings? So we're currently in the same room.

That may change, though. Absolutely. We always, it's funny, my dad, the first time he came into our new setup was like,

have you guys always been social distanced? Yes. Yes. I mean, that's part of just good audio recording is we do sit

fairly far apart. Yeah, but numbers are spiking in our area Yes. Yes. I mean, that's part of just good audio recording is we do sit fairly far apart. Yes. Yeah, but numbers are spiking in our area, and right now they are kind of increasing precautions and mandates. So if we get to the point where we're back into, you know, a situation where they're telling us even social distancing isn't enough, we'll go back to remote recording. Also, I mean, we don't need anyone to tell us this stuff. Of course. Absolutely. Yeah.

I feel like the way we do things right now is pretty, I mean, I don't want to say it's super safe because we are together. We are together. But we do stay very far apart. Yeah. And I don't go anywhere. Yeah. So it's all you. It's all me.

Patience, a.k.a. Spitsick Beats, asks, what is your favorite Christmas CD? Okay. What you got? I have two. Actually, I have three, and they're all super lame. First of all, fucking love Christmas music. Oh, yeah, me too. Me too.

Every year since I was like 13, when we put up the Christmas tree, we have always listened to 98 Degrees Christmas. Oh, that's a good one. It's so good. So I still listen to that one. Okay, sure. Also the NSYNC Christmas album. Oh, yeah. Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Excellent. Yes. And then my third one. What do you got? This one is a dark horse. Okay.

I don't think many people know about this. It's by Katy Perry. Kristen Chenoweth, who is a, she's like a Broadway star. Yeah, we all know. All right, excuse me. Okay. She has a Christmas album, and it is top notch. Okay.

You heard it here first from the lady who loves 98 Degrees and NSYNC. Kristen Chenoweth is going to be like, oh, that's okay. I don't want that endorsement. Also, just recently found out Leslie Odom Jr. has a Christmas album. Whoa. Whoa. Keep your pants on. I dare you.

Mm-hmm. I only listen to it with my pants off. Which was really awkward when we were putting up the Christmas tree. Hey, no, it's COVID times. It's just you and David, right? Yeah, Jack's there. Oh, okay. All right.

All right. All right. I right. All right. I'm calling social services. No, I love Christmas music. I love the old stuff. I love the pop Christmas stuff. I mean, Mariah. Hello.

Amy Grant. You know, oh, oh, all kinds of, oh. I love it all. Me too. Norman hates it all. Thus too. Norman hates it all. Thus, our household is very spicy. Wrong Discord wants to know, what is your theory about what happened with the infamous Four Seasons press conference? How did they really land in the parking lot of a landscaping company?

I think they legitimately called the wrong place, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. They called the wrong place, and some genius, who I want to give an award to, was like, absolutely. Come have a press conference here. Come on down. Sure, Rudy.

Come on down. And man, good for them. Good for them for selling merch. Yeah. Unless they're secretly really gross and Trumpy, which I don't know. Maybe they are. Maybe they are. In which case, not good for them.

But, oh, what a blessing in these trying times to have Rudy Giuliani in front of the Four Seasons Landscape Company. Ooh, OutRaged asks, it might look a little different this year because, you know, the pandemic. But do either of you normally partake in any Black Friday craziness? You do, right? No. I almost died inside of Victoria's Secret one time. And I haven't done it since. Tell us about it.

Okay. Strangled by a G-string? It's been a million years ago. It was the year that Zona Rosa opened. Oh, wow. They did some radio promotion that like the first thousand people got a $10 gift card or some bullshit.

I mean, it was no money. But like a bunch of people lined up and we went up there, my stepmom and Casey and my aunt and I, we all went up there, my cousins, and we were not even close to, you know, being close enough in line to get that. But we're like, okay, we're already here. Let's do some shopping.

This was not a well-controlled crowd situation. They were letting way too many people into stores. And at Victoria's Secret, if you spent like $20 on anything, you got like a tote worth $75 with samples and shit inside of it. And so my sister wanted the tote. Casey wanted the tote. So we go to Victoria's Secret and I am standing in Victoria's Secret and I slowly keep getting like pushed

further and further over. And then I realize I'm standing in a corner and I start to panic when I can't see a clear exit route from somewhere. You're like Al Capone. I can't handle it. And so I start to panic when I can't see a clear exit route from you're like Al Capone it I can't handle it and so I start looking around and I'm like there's no way for me to get out of here uh-huh if there's a fire right now I'm dying inside Victoria's Secret and so I like started to have like a little panic attack and I had to like get my way out of the Victoria's Secret I didn't

go into another store the rest of the night. Yeah. And I've never done in-person Black Friday shopping since then. So my worst Black Friday experience was it was at the Legends, which is in Kansas City, Kansas. It's like an outlet mall. I'm explaining it to you because you have no idea what it is. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah. Jay and Kyla and I went one year when we were all in college. Yeah. We went at like midnight. And it was packed. Yeah. It was freezing cold. Yep.

And I stood in line at Banana Republic forever to buy a sweater that my dad didn't even really like. And I got like 15% off on it. And I just remember thinking, this is awful. Best Black Friday experience? One year. This was a couple years ago. even really like and I got like 15% off on it and I just remember thinking this is awful best yeah Black Friday experience one year this was a couple years ago my family did our little Thanksgiving trip to Tanterra yeah hashtag blessed you know that's the um Bora Bora of the Midwest but they've got an outlet mall yeah that is just not super crowded. Yeah.

And so let me tell you, that is heaven for me. Deep sales. No one there. Oh, amazing. That sounds amazing. I had a great time. Yeah. Will not be doing any of that this year.

No, but I love online shopping, Black Friday, Cyber Monday. I do most of my Christmas shopping those days. I do most of my cyber sex on that Monday. With a ball gag in your mouth. Don't worry about it. Don't make it gross, Brandy. Unity Gooch asks, favorite scent of hand sanitizer. How did I know you would have an answer to this?

I have two answers. Oh, my God. No. Okay. The one I use at the salon, I love. It's made by Hemp's, and it just smells tropical and wonderful. Love it. Use that one at the salon.

My personal hand sanitizer is from Bed Bath &... No, it's from Bath & Body Works. And it's that smell right there. Oh, the stress relief. Smells so good. Pop this bad boy open. You said I was out of this. Look, that thing is like the emptiest tube of lotion I've ever seen,

Kristen. Yeah, you guys, Brandi got me this stuff for my birthday, like, last year. Yeah. Hey, I use it to the last drop. Good to the last drop. And now she's just setting it on her desk while we record. I think it's like a subtle hint for me to get it for her.

What's this? An almost empty thing? I wonder what I could use again. Gee, I don't know. It is subtle. I'll give you that. It's very subtle. Do you have a favorite scent of hand sanitizer? No, I just do Purell. Okay, Purell has scented ones. They have a lavender one that's amazing. Okay, you know what? I've got to tell you something. One time, in like a stocking stuffer, I got a gingerbread scented hand sanitizer. And I thought, well, this will be nice. That sounds terrible.

It's the worst. That sounds, yeah. It is. So you put it on. Everything in a hundred foot radius smells like it. It is crazy how strong it is It doesn't smell good And I like gingerbread Yeah It's just awful

And so ever since then That was like five years ago Scarred for life I do not do scented hand sanitizer Hot take You can't do the sweet smells on stuff like that. Really? That's my thought.

I can't do them either. I think they smell terrible, and I don't want to smell that. I don't like the sweet smells. You've got to have a clean smell. That's so funny. I wonder why the sweet smell is so bad. Yeah, there's something about it. I can't stand them.

It's overpowering in a way that the other stuff is not so overpowering. Yep. I'm glad we had this discussion. Me too. You know, it's a very timely discussion. Now, out of any other time, people have their strongest held opinions about hand sanitizer. That's right. That's right.

We really had a breakthrough here today. I think we've made some great progress. Before this, we were awful. I keep looking at this picture of Miley Cyrus with her hair. You want a mullet? You want a Miley Cyrus mullet? No, I do not. I have learned my lesson since the Jennifer Lawrence pixie cut of 2015 or whatever that was.

You looked cute with a pixie cut, though. Thank you. It was just a nightmare to style, right? Well, not even that. It was just that, like, every time I looked in the mirror, I was like, this isn't me. Oh, yeah. I could see that.

You know, it just really felt like it was not me at all. But, yeah, styling, that's the one thing. I thought having super short hair, it would be, oh, this will be easier. No. No, it's not. That's the misconception. Mm-hmm. You know why?

Because you always have to fucking do something to it. Yeah. Long hair, you don't want to do something? You guys can't see, but she's pointing to a ponytail. That's right. On her very head. On my very own head. Yeah, but you's right. On her very head. On my very own head. Yeah, but you're right. I realized, like, okay, you have to

wash it every day. Yeah. Style it. Yeah. Blow dry it. Yeah. I mean, if I didn't blow dry it. And you have a shit ton of hair, so. I sure do. Metric shit ton. That's right. And I have even more than I wanted to because David sabotaged me. David did sabotage you. Listen, all y'all, it's a sabotage. I was supposed to cut Kristen's hair. My hair bag is not in the car. You were supposed to cut it last week. I was supposed to cut it last week, but I discovered that my hair bag was not in the car.

And so this week I was like, oh, I'll bring it next week. And I was like, I've got to put my hair bag in the car. So I had taken it out of the car to cut Jack's hair at home, and then David stashed it in the garage because we keep things there never. Anyway, I had a mean conversation with him, and then I immediately apologized because it's not his fault I forgot the bag. Did I tell you about the creepy text he sent me? He did not send you a creepy text.

He sent me a creepy text two days ago. He was like, I really like your hair the way it is. I did not. Anyway, I took my frustrations out about forgetting the hair bag out on David. It was all his fault. It's not his fault. Totally his fault. It's not his fault. I didn't put the hair bag back in my car, and

David, this is my formal apology to you. I'm very sorry. We'll see if he accepts it. I just don't know. This could be it. This is what's going to break down our relationship. The hairbag debacle of 2020. I mean, anything in 2020 could be the final straw.

It sure could. It sure could. Well, should we answer any more questions? Or do you think we... No, there's two things. Oh, well said. Supreme Court indu we... No, that's too long. No, let's just... Oh, well said. Supreme Court inductions? Oh, oh, let's do it.

Oh, you don't have... What are you doing on your phone there? I wanted to make sure it's the 18th because, you know, I want to read the right list of people. Oh, I don't even... Because I'm a professional. I don't even have it pulled up. Of course you don't. My God.

The things I have to deal with, I swear. We haven't even made, like, a big deal about this being our 150th episode. Oh, man. What the fudge? That's pretty exciting. Yeah, it is. That's it. Yay.

When did we start this thing? 150 episodes ago. Yeah, 150 episodes ago. Almost three years ago. That's wild. Yeah episodes ago. Yeah, 150 episodes ago. Almost three years ago. That's wild. Yeah. Man. Woo! What a time it's been. It really has been. It's been amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, I don't know what to say on this momentous occasion. Episode 150. You know what I think we should do to celebrate it? What? Supreme Court inductions. Oh, well.

Boy, I thought you were going to say eat some bad food. Guys, we had bad lunch today. We had bad lunch today, and it put us both in a bad mood. Norman was in a terrible mood. Well, he didn't even finish his lunch. It was so bad. Which, for Norman to not finish his lunch. It's a big deal.

It's a big deal. Somebody fucked up. Yeah. And they will be beheaded. No, we will never order from that place again. Yeah. It doesn't get us, like, that's just how it works. It doesn't get a second chance.

Yeah. We don't take food disappointment lightly. We don't. We don't. We are big babies about it. We are. Oh, man. We are. All right it. We are. Oh, man. We are.

All right. Is this our last week of books? It sure is. Finishing up strong. The time has come to stop talking about books. That was beautiful. That was great. Okay.

Kristen, you want to do the names? Sure. You want me to do the names? I'll do it. Okay. I got the nuts. All right. Show me those nuts.

Anita Schray. Ender's Game. Cyan Jenkins. Kristen's Middle School Diary. Leah Norris. The Bells. Rose Wilder. Dark Places.

Courtney Lane. The Lost Symbol. Sarah Scher. Dark Places. Courtney Lane. The Lost Symbol. Sarah Schraff. Harry Potter. Ali Smith. Paint It Black. Lily Stanfield. Pet Sematary.

Randy Krim. The Night Circus. Nikki Mayhew. The Dark Tower Series. Polly Schleicher. Gone Girl. Nicole Wissman. Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered.

Oh, that's good. Gwen Papalizio. Ninth Street Women. Hillary Smith. Outlander. Tiffany Hurdle. Anything by Lisa Gardner. Melissa Belasco.

Jane Eyre. Lem. The Four Agreements. Kelly Irvin. The Lock. Christeny. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings Cookies

Tilt I've read that, it's so good. It's a really interesting book because it's like, it's not prose. It's like written in poetry style. Oh. It's very interesting. Okay. Nikki

The Perks of Being a Wallflower Stasha The Way the Crow Flies Welcome The Perks of Being a Wallflower. Stasha. The Way the Crow Flies. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Thank you guys for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon.

Please subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And then head on over to Apple Podcasts, leave us a rating, leave us a review, and then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned! And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff

then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from Rachel Bell's article for the Crime Library, reporting from the Raleigh News and Observer and the Baltimore Sun. I got my info from the Baser Sentinel, the Chieftain, the Emporia Gazette, the Tonganoxie

Mirror, the Lawrence Journal World, and the Court Record. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. you