Let's Go To Court! - 155: A Killer Son-in-Law & An Innocent Joke!

Episode Date: January 6, 2021

Kenneth Parks showed up at his local police station in a haze. He was covered in blood. His hands were horribly injured. He was confused, but horrified. He told police, “I think I have just killed two people.” In fact, he’d just murdered his mother-in-law, Barbara Ann Woods. He’d attempted to murder his father-in-law, Dennis Woods as well, but Dennis survived the attack. But why did Kenneth attack his in-laws? Prosecutors said he did it because he didn’t want to tell them about his gambling addiction. But Kenneth’s defense argued he hadn’t intended to attack his in-laws at all. He’d committed the crime while sleepwalking. Then Kristin tells us about a former army ranger who was down on his luck. Pat Sabo was back in his hometown of Eastlake, Ohio. Money was tight. He’d had a few run-ins with the law. That’s when an old high school friend named Christine Metter connected with him on Facebook. The pair hadn’t talked in nearly 20 years, but they quickly bonded over stories about their ex’s. Christine, in particular, wouldn’t shut up about her ex, David. She and David were recently divorced, and he was seeking primary custody of their daughters. Christine was pissed. So, Pat made an innocent joke. He said, “save your money and hire a hitman! LMAO.” Pat was kidding. But Christine took him seriously.    And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Eastlake Conspiracy” episode of Dateline “‘Have Fun,’ Says Dad Trying To Hire A Hitman To Off His Daughter’s Ex,” by Daniel Egitto for Oxygen.com “Ex-husband Statement At Wife’s Murder-For-Hire Sentencing,” News 5 Cleveland on YouTube “Facebook Murder-for-Hire Conviction Gets Woman 10 Years,” by Nikki Ferrell for Patch.com “Christine Metter Gets Maximum 10-Year Setnence For Trying to Hire Hit Man To Kill Ex-Husband,” by Tracey Read for The News-Herald Clips from Oxygen’s “Murder For Hire” episode, “Daddy’s Girl” In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “A Bump in the Night: When Sleepwalkers Turn Violent” by Matt Soniak, Mental Floss “Sleepwalking man’s excuse in death of mother-in-law” The Ottawa Citizen “Innocent By Reason Of…” by Ken MacQueen, The Ottawa Citizen “Jury acquits sleepwalker in attempted murder case” The Windsor Star “Sleepwalking Canadian Walks On Murder Charge” by Toronto Globe and Mail, The Chicago Tribune “Man Acquitted Of Sleepwalking Murder Running For School Trustee In Durham” by News Staff, City News Toronto

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about an innocent joke. And I'll be talking about a killer son-in-law.

Ew. Okay, I'm cheating a little here. Gotta tell ya, you've got a name from your case here on our little page. Yeah. It sounds familiar, but I can't quite place it. I would be shocked

if you know this story. Oh, well, I am shocked any time you're smart ever. No, no, no. No, I would be shocked if you know this story. I think it's pretty obscure.

However, I also like have something that's like triggered by this name. So it must be the name of someone else as well. It seems fairly common. Okay.

We might have to bleep this. Okay. Serial killer? I don't think so. What do you mean you don't think so? Oh, my case is not about a serial killer. No, no, no. No, my case is not about a serial killer.

I misunderstood the assignment. I really just have a name to present to you all today. And you're going to have to Google him. And that'll be your episode. Welcome to 2021, people. Oh, that's right. Yes. No, no.

I see what you want to do. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything because we've already been told what a bunch of schlubs we sounded like on the New Year's 2020 episode. Have you re-listened? I went back and listened. I haven't listened. It's pretty cringy. We were like, hey, 2020, that's an exciting year.

We're going to really have a great time in 2020. Zero great times we're at in 2020. So, 2021 is going to suck. we're not looking forward to it just it's just gonna that's okay you're welcome everyone we just set you up for a great year uh breaking news a case update that's happening like today as we speak what already happened oh well wow you could have lied no one would have known it happened this morning people don't know well yeah people know okay go ahead the blue-eyed butcher yeah released from prison today wow yeah so that's a that's an

early case it is covered i think episode eight or nine you're gonna love the audio quality go back yeah wonderful worth a listen though because isn't that the Cassie Chadwick episode two? I don't know. That seems about right, though. Yeah. I don't know. You're the one who memorizes all this stuff. Anyway, stabbed her husband 193 times.

She was originally sentenced to 20 years, no, 25 years in prison. It was reduced to 20 after an appeal. And she served, I don't know 13, 15 something like that. But like a potential abuse situation. Yeah it was very likely an abuse situation. Yes. Yeah. Out today.

Today. I mean it's not cool for people because like this is a week later you know. I think it's pretty cool today. Okay. Yeah so she has a couple kids who've been living with the father's family so interested to see what happens there there's no way to know that's not gonna be public information interested to see what happens there what do you have surveillance cameras i do not i've slowly befriended all the kids over the years and i'm just interested to see how this all goes down

with these fake friendships i've created no i don't i didn't do any of that that'd be super fucking creepy yeah it would but also maybe something i might do no you wouldn't that's like a psychopath like a step past what i would do okay my next book idea yeah well no you don't don't oh you can't give it away give it away You can't give it away. Give it away, give it away, give it away now. Okay, I, sorry guys. Yeah, sorry, it's top secret. You can tell the whole thing and we can bleep it. Okay, my next book idea.

Like, what if it was a fictionalized, so it's obviously a novel. Uh-huh. And it's a true crime podcaster who's really stupid and creepy. And like, she thinks she's like unsolving yeah solving unsolved stuff and just messes everything up i love it so she does creepy stuff like befriend kids yeah based on me yeah all right i need to workshop that idea a little more are you ready to hear about a killer son-in-law? Gee, I wonder what happens. I think somebody gets killed. Yeah.

Lay it on me. Okay, shout out to Matt Soniak, S-O-N-I-A-K, for Mental Floss. He had a great article about this case, what the majority of this information comes from. It was the early morning hours of May 24th, 1987, when Kenneth Parks burst through the doors of a Scarborough, Ontario, Canada police station and exclaimed, I think I've just killed two people. After making the confession, he looked down and seemed shocked to find that his hands were covered in blood. My hands, he said, only then registering that not only were they covered in blood, they were severely injured. They'd been cut open and he had several severed tendons. Oh, God. As Ken was taken to a nearby hospital for medical attention, he told them an unbelievable story.

He said that he remembered sitting on the couch watching Saturday Night Live. He must have dozed off somewhere around 1 30 in the morning. The next thing he remembered was looking down at his mother-in-law's face. It was frozen. She was dead. He went downstairs and out the door and it was only when he went to start his car that he realized he was holding a knife in his hand. He threw the knife on the floor and then headed straight to that police department for help. Ken said he had no recollection of waking up, getting off the couch, getting dressed, getting in the car, driving the complex 15-mile drive to his in-law's house. Like he would have had to take the highway, got off at an exit, on multiple back roads. Right.

He had no recollection of any of this. He had no recollection of going inside. And he certainly had no recollection of murdering his mother-in-law and father-in-law, Barbara and Dennis Woods. of murdering his mother-in-law and father-in-law, Barbara and Dennis Woods. But police were skeptical, to say the least, about his story. While Ken was being cared for and interrogated at the hospital, officers were sent to the Woods Scarborough townhouse. Inside, they found Dennis in bed where the attack had obviously started.

Barbara was found deceased in a nearby TV room. She'd been beaten with a tire iron and stabbed, but Dennis was still clinging to life. He'd been strangled and stabbed, but despite this, he would eventually make a full recovery. After undergoing surgery to repair his injured hands, Ken was arrested. Why were his hands so injured? I don't know. And really, we never get any more information on that. Defensive wounds, possibly.

But he was the one doing the killing, right? Right. So if somebody else is fighting back against him while he has a knife in his hands, it's possible. OK. Like, his hands were severely injured in his hands it's possible okay like his hands were severely injured i think it's a great question i don't have any more information on it like okay and you don't even know if he was a serial killer well that's right i don't now and ken doesn't know what happened to his hands because he says he has no recollection of ever attacking his in-laws. Okay.

Ken was arrested and charged with first-degree murder and attempted murder. The investigation into Ken had uncovered a potential motive. Ken was 23, married, had a beautiful five-month-old daughter, and a major gambling problem. He'd hidden his gambling and mounting debt from everyone, including his wife, Karen, until March of that year. In March, his employer had discovered that he'd embezzled more than $30,000. He'd been fired and obviously charged with the theft. And at that point, he'd been forced to come clean to his wife.

And so he did. He told her everything. He told her that he depleted their savings. He told her that he'd taken out loans and then gambled that money away. He told her that he found a way to pilfer money from like a family savings account. He'd basically taken money anywhere he could. And so then he also had to tell her like now he was facing serious jail time with this embezzlement case. It seems based on what I could find that Karen was pretty supportive of Ken after these revelations.

Yeah. that Karen was pretty supportive of Ken after these revelations. Yeah. As far as I can tell, it looks like they decided to tackle this thing as a team. They decided to put their house up for sale to cover the gambling debts. Wow. Yeah. As far as I could tell, it seems like Karen kind of stayed by his side during this initial time. Well, and when you have an infant, that does make things more difficult. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. What kind of jail time was he facing? Do you have an infant, like that does make things more difficult. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay. What kind of jail time was he facing? Do you know? You know, I don't know. It's funny because I feel like a lot of these employers, they just let it go because they're kind of embarrassed. You said this was what, $30,000? $30,000.

Well, it's the 80s. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So they decide to put their house on the market. They're going to sell it. But the stress of covering up this whole thing was kind of weighing heavy on Ken. To this point, they had kept this completely inside their own marriage.

They hadn't told the family members outside, and they were kind of trying to handle it on their own. And that was until May of 1987. On May 20th, 1987, Ken attended his first Gamblers Anonymous meeting. At that meeting, they encouraged him to get his secret off his chest. And so he went home and he talked to Karen and he said, this is kind of like the first step that they're telling me I should do. And so they decided that that upcoming weekend they would tell Ken's grandma and then they would tell her on Saturday. And then on Sunday they'd go to Karen's parents house and tell them about everything that had been going on.

So the articles on this mention that he was embezzling money not only from his employer but also from some family savings fund. I don't know whose account that was. I don't know if it was his grandma. Or if it was their own. Exactly. Exactly. It seemed to be at least an account that was accessible to other family members. But I'm not positive on that.

So for whatever reason, these are the people closest to them that they decide they're going to start with. Police thought maybe this was the motive. He decided like, OK, i've got this big secret that i've been keeping and now in order to like move on in my recovery i can't keep it a secret anymore and maybe the shame of that was more than he could handle and so he decided that he would kill karen's parents instead of having to come clean. That seems... I agree. So that's the initial thought that the police have.

Right, because wouldn't you instead just be like, okay, these people at Gamblers Anonymous told me to do this thing. I'm just not going to do it. I'm just not going to do it. So the other thought was that maybe he came up with the idea to murder Karen's parents so that he could then get some kind of inheritance that would then take care of the gambling debt. Yes, I agree that that does make more sense. There were problems with this theory, though. First, Ken was extremely close with Karen's parents.

She was adamant that he would never do anything to hurt them. parents. She was adamant that he would never do anything to hurt them. And she said if they needed help to get out from under this gambling debt, they would have just asked them and they would have done it. Yeah. The second bigger problem was that Ken's unbelievable story from that night was seeming more and more believable every time he told it. Because despite their many attempts to trip him up or catch him in a lie, Ken told the story exactly the same way every single time. during seven different interviews with various doctors, lawyers, investigators. Ken's explanation of what he did and did not remember that night remained consistent down to very specific details. He never denied that he was there, but what he did deny was having any intent to harm them. And additionally, he displayed genuine remorse and horror over what had happened in that

house. Yeah. And he was exhibiting a great amount of confusion about what happened that day. There had to be some explanation. While Ken was being held at the Toronto East Detention Center awaiting trial, he underwent a battery of medical and psychiatric tests at the request of his defense team. The doctors considered acute psychotic episode under extreme stress or aggression during an amnesiac state or possibly deliberate homicide with stress-induced amnesia

or possibly it was complex partial epileptic seizures with automatic behavior these were all possible explanations that they looked into every doctor who examined ken found signs of like general depression and anxiety, which leads to murdering your in-laws. Well, no, people don't know. That's like, look out, gang, if that's what you're feeling. What I would say is that, yeah, if you believe or if you find yourself in Ken's situation, I think it's going to be very difficult not to have general anxiety and depression. Be pretty dang weird if you weren't depressed and really anxious. Exactly. But none of them found any signs of delusions, hallucinations, paranoia, psychosis. In fact, he had no history of psychosis or amnesic episodes whatsoever. Say that five times fast. That's right.

You know, I'm sorry to take us off course here, but amnesia was a really popular storyline in the 80s and 90s. You don't see it today. You really don't. Did they amnesia us out? Ooh, modern day, famous claim of amnesia. What's that? Jodi Arias. Oh, modern day famous claim of amnesia. What's that? Jodi Arias.

Oh, well. You know, my most unpopular opinion is that she's an innocent woman. I'm just kidding, people. Calm down. Don't send us emails. Oh, my God. I believe those ninjas were there that night. Oh, no. So while he didn't have any history.

What are you going to do, Jodi Arias? Fuck, I'll do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. Will you? It's just overwhelming. It's too big. It's my Everest.

I'll do it. Maybe. I'm not going to do it. We've been lied to before. Yeah, I'm not going to do it. We were told that 2020 would be a great year by you. I did say that. I was like, I don't know, guys. I've not going to do it. We've been lied to before. Yeah, I'm not going to do it. We were told that 2020 would be a great year by you. I didn't say that. I was like, I don't know, guys.

I've got a bad feeling. But, you know, you made us cut that from the end. Yeah, it was all me who was like, yeah, 2020, an amazing year. Who could have seen this dumpster fire coming? Let's move on. Yes, let's. Let's talk fire coming? Let's move on. Yes, let's. Let's talk about murder. Let's.

Okay. So for the fourth time now, he didn't have a history of psychosis or amnesia. But what he did have was a history of being an occasional sleepwalker. Oh, no. Uh-huh. No. Yes. Doctors didn't believe Ken to be mentally ill,

but he didn't seem to them to be just like a cold-blooded killer. So they kept coming back to that history of sleepwalking. Could it have been possible that some kind of sleep disorder was at play here? Oh, this is horrible. Yeah. Yeah.

This can't be right. So instances of homicidal somnambulism date all the way back to medieval times. One of the first documented cases of sleep-related violence or nocturnal aggression is that of Bernard Shedmeising. Ah, yes. Ah, yes. Ah, yes. We all know the story well. And as this Mental Floss article tells us, he was a woodcutter

living in medieval Silesia, which is, of course, Kristen, I don't have to tell you, is a historical region of Central Europe, which is now located mostly in Poland. That's true. Yes true yes yes it is so one night after this dude bernard had uh fallen asleep he'd been asleep for a couple of hours

he awoke abruptly he believed that there was an intruder at the foot of his bed and so naturally he grabbed his axe which i guess he just kept right next to well he was a woodworker yeah maybe he had a bunch of stuff laying around and he just started swinging oh and in the midst of doing that when he awoke or turned on a candle turned on a candle? Turned on a candle? When he got out of his smartphone and he put on the flashlight. That's right. He found that he had killed his wife who was sleeping beside him. To this day, sleepwalking isn't completely understood. Medical studies suggest that there's various causes such as delays in like the central nervous system or that there's physiological triggers that cause the brain to jump from like your slow wave sleep to wakefulness without hitting REM sleep in between.

I don't know what any of that means. REM sleep for those who don't know, is the deep shit. That's right. And that's a medical term. But doctors believe that factors such as sleep deprivation, excessive tiredness, use of alcohol, antipsychotics, and hypnotics all appear to have some kind of influence on the occurrence of sleepwalking specifically in those who are predisposed to it.

It's supersonic. Supersonic. Did I say that? No. When you said hypnotic Oh, supersonic hypnotic funky fresh.

Yes. One other person was on that wavelength with me. Sleepwalking is generally accepted in the medical community as a state of automatism. Kristen, there are so many fucking words in this. The $5 words you are using today, it's too much for me. Or automatic behavior i feel like i need a fucking dictionary yeah so automatism is basically behavior where a person has neither awareness nor control of their behavior they're literally in an automatic state okay legally, murder requires intent. So if someone were to commit a murder in an automatic state.

We looking at manslaughter or what? I don't know. I don't know. Well, you'd better know, Brandy, because you've got to tell this whole story. No, Brandy, because you've got to tell this whole story. So because he had this history of sleepwalking, a sleep disorder specialist was brought in to see if somnambulism or some other sleep disorder played a role in Ken's crime. That was the taboo buzzer that she just hit. So what they found was that Ken had been a severe bedwetter for most of his life.

He'd been a chronic sleep talker, an occasional sleepwalker, and a deep sleeper who was extremely hard to wake up. They did two overnight sleep studies and during those, Ken had frequent shifts from lighter sleep to wakefulness. He had a very disrupted sleep pattern. These were all things that showed that, yes, it was possible that a sleep disorder was at play the night these things happened. Wow. And they found a big family history of sleepwalking, sleep talking, bedwetting, deep sleeping, and night terrors within his family. Sleepwalking, along with many of these other sleep disorder things, are believed to be heavily genetically predisposed. So the fact that other members of his family also exhibited these symptoms at different levels of severity seemed to really kind of hammer home the point

that like yeah this really seems like there was something at play here i had no idea that bed wetting could be genetic yes wow yeah so i guess i have my mom and dad to blame for that time in sixth grade. That was the last time I peed the bed, everyone. I was going to say, doesn't everybody have like a weird one time that they peed the bed, like way later than they ever should have? I hope I'm not alone, but I remember, you know, I was in sixth grade, so that's way too late. Yeah, I peed the bed one time in fifth grade and like was super embarrassed and like, what the hell?

Well, when you're old enough to clean up after yourself, you know you're too old. Yeah. I had a dream I was in a pool, in my defense. And you were there. Really, you were in the dream. It's no weird. I think in my dream I was jumping into a lake

with Fred Flintstone. Oh. Yeah, but Deb, too. When you peed, did he say, Barney? I don't think he did. Brandy. Brandy. So all of these sleep disorder specialists were looking at all of these predisposing factors, the personal history.

And then they also looked at those things in conjunction with the stress that was on him. He was coming clean about this major secret. The plans of that weekend were weighing on him heavily. And it looked like all of those were possible triggers for an episode of sleepwalking, perhaps homicidal sleepwalking. At his trial in May of 1988, Ken Park's defense attorney, Marlies Edward. Oh, what? I don't think we caught that. We're going to need to hear that

again. Marlies? M-A-R-L-Y-S. Okay. Marlies? I don't know. Marlies? Mm-hmm. Edward. Is there an H at the end of that? There's an H at the end.

It's Edward with just like an H tacked on the end. You think it's like a silent H? I don't know. Man, I feel for you. Anyway. Marlies. Edward. Marlise Edward argued that the murder of Barbara Woods was an act of homicide during non-insane automatism as part of a presumed episode of somnambulism.

Wow. did not have any preexisting, quote, disease of the mind. And there was no evidence for psychosis or other mental illness. And that the clustering of factors that triggered the assault and murder were rare. So the big thing here was that the recurrence of a violent sleepwalking with aggression event was very unlikely this was like the perfect storm of he was sleep deprived he had all of this stress he'd finally come clean about this massive secret that he'd been holding all of those things came together and caused this perfect storm of this homicidal automatism episode of somnambulism. That's right. Yeah. His attorney argued that Ken should be acquitted and not be subject to mandatory hospitalization

because this was not a mental illness. This was a sleep disorder yeah okay so the difference you got to figure something out medically right i mean right okay yeah but what they're what they're arguing is that yes okay yes this is a sleep disorder not a mental illness and this is such a rare occurrence that anything like this could ever happen again that we don't even need to worry about it. Boy, I don't know. Yeah. Dude's 23.

That's a lot of life to live and a lot of stress ahead of him. Yeah. Yeah. But that's the defense's argument. Yeah. And they brought forward a litany of doctors and neurological experts, six in all, who all presented evidence that Ken was sleepwalking when he committed the murder. They testified to the family history. They testified about the examinations and sleep studies following the murder. They testified about the state that he

was in when he arrived at the hospital. They testified about all of those things and the neurological significance of sleepwalking and automatism. In addition to the experts, Dennis Woods testified. So this is the father that survived. And he testified about what he remembered of the attack from that night. He testified about, you know,

what he'd gone through, but he said he never saw his attacker. Really? Yeah. Huh. I don't know if that was just like a little like, I'm going to protect my family thing or if he legitimately. Because that was never up for debate. Like it was never, Ken was not the one that attacked Barbara and Dennis.

That was never the argument. Right. Well, and if it happened at night, maybe he really didn't see his attacker. Yeah. Or it was never Ken was not the one that attacked Barbara and Dennis. That was never the argument. Right. Well, and if it happened at night. Yeah. Maybe he really didn't see his attacker. Yeah. Yeah. Is there a way to know if someone's sleepwalking? Like if you see them, do you know? I don't know. And maybe that maybe that's the point of that testimony. Like I never saw him, so I couldn't tell you what state he was in. I don't know there were

z's above his head yeah just floating right above his head yeah and that happens to all of us that's right of us even I don't know I mean I assume his eyes had to be open right because he drove there I mean yeah I assume your eyes are open when you sleepwalk, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't know either. I didn't Google that. Well. Hang on. Are you looking it up? Yes. Are your eyes open when you sleepwalk? The eyes are usually open while someone's sleepwalking, although the person will look straight through people and not recognize them,

they can often move well around familiar objects. If you talk to a person who is sleepwalking, they may partially respond or say things that do not make sense. You know, you're not supposed to wake someone up when they're sleeping. Yeah. Yeah, I have heard that you're not supposed

to wake a sleepwalker because it can cause them, yeah, to have like enter a panic state or... Murder you. Murder you. So in closing arguments, Marlins Edward told the jury that on the night of the killings, Ken Parks plunged into a deep, deep sleep. He sat on that couch. He's finally like relieved to have his secret out in the open.

But he was also still stressed because he knew the next day he was going to have to tell his in-laws who is extremely close to and so in that deep deep sleep he fell into he had no recollection of anything until the next morning when he opened his eyes and he saw his mother-in-law's face and she was dead she said that when ken regained consciousness blood dripping from his severely cut hands he drove straight to a nearby police station she then asked the jury to acquit ken because he was in a sleep state in which he had no choice had no control nothing he did during that was of his own control. He was in an automatic state. Prosecutors for the Crown called this defense, quote, simply ludicrous.

In their closing arguments, they argued that an acquittal would be an affront to the community's sense of justice and certainly to one's common sense. So I'm going to pause here before we find out what the jury decides. I have covered another case where someone claimed that they committed a murder during sleepwalking. Mr. Scott Falaterer. Do you remember that? So he stabbed his wife like 45 times.

OK. And then he drowned wife like 45 times. Okay. And then he drowned her like in the family pool. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. However, following the murder, he made attempts to cover up the crime. Right, right. He hid the weapon. He hid his bloody clothes. Right.

And so a jury didn't believe his sleepwalking defense and they found him guilty of murder. What do you think in this case? Because he made no attempt. He never denied that he. I believe this is entirely possible, especially if there's a family history of this. Yeah. Yeah. I can see how it would be possible. Yeah, I do, too. I actually really believe his story. Yeah. how it would be possible. Yeah. I do, too. I actually really believe his story.

Yeah. And the fact, you're right, the fact that he immediately went to the police and. Yeah. They said that one of the things in one of the articles I read said that they believe that he was still in a in somewhat of a sleep state by the time that he arrived at the police station. Yeah. If he looked down and realized. It wasn't until he felt the pain in his hands that he was fully awake and in control of his movements.

Yeah. The jury deliberated for nine hours. And on May 25th, 1988, a year and a day after the murder, they returned a verdict of not guilty. Wow. Yeah. On July 15th, 1988, Ken Parks was again on trial, this time for the attempted murder of his father-in-law, Dennis. I'm surprised they tried him again. I agree.

I agree. So this trial was weird. And I've not heard of a situation like this before. But what they did is they agreed to just go before a judge. I believe the same judge from the murder trial. And both the crown and the defense had to agree to just basically submit for the judge the same evidence from the murder trial. And then the judge considered that. And then they were able to basically give any additional arguments they wanted to on top of it.

So this like was literally like an hour long event. OK. Where the judge was like, OK, I'm considering. That makes a lot more sense actually. I'm considering the same evidence that was presented at the murder trial. But in this in this case, it's the attempted murder of Dennis Woods. And at that trial, the prosecution offered one like additional argument. They said that Ken Parks

had regained consciousness following the murder of Barbara Woods and that he was awake for the subsequent attack on Dennis. Give me a fucking break. Exactly. So the defense was like, excuse me, that's speculation.

There's no way to fucking know that. We had a whole litany of experts who testified that this entire event took place during a sleepwalking incident. That's desperate. That's someone who doesn't want justice. They just want like a little notch. I agree. I agree. They want to win. That's all under consideration. And after like an hour, the judge acquitted Ken Parks of the attempted murder charge, just as the jury had in the murder trial. The Crown immediately appealed the acquittals. Oh, God.

Arguing that the trial judge had erred in ruling that the condition of sleepwalking should be classified. Wow. Classified. Classified. We're fancy. We're classified. walking should be classified as non-insane automatism and not a, quote, disease of the mind. So the Crown argued that had the judge not made this distinction, the jury could have found Ken Parks not guilty by reason of insanity, which would have resulted in him being sent to a mental health facility of some sort for some amount of time.

OK. The appeal actually worked its way all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada. the evidence presented a reasonable doubt that Parks acted voluntarily and that the trial judge was correct in his analysis of the evidence and his decision not to characterize sleepwalking as a mental disorder when it is a sleep disorder. Yeah. After his release from custody, Ken Parks began receiving psychotherapy and taking anti-anxiety medication and has had no further reported incidents of sleepwalking at all.

Is he still married? Okay, he is married. I don't know if he's still married to Karen. That'd be really hard. Yeah. No. I can't imagine staying married to someone who murdered my mother. And attempted to murder your father.

But what if it wasn't? It's not his fault. Yeah, but still. I think that'd be really, really difficult. Overlook, yeah. He did plead guilty to the theft charges in relation to the embezzlement from his employer. And he paid his $30,000 restitution in full. I don't believe he served any jail time

for it because he worked out a deal to plead guilty and pay restitution. In 2006, Ken stirred up a bit of buzz when he ran for school trustee in Durham. I don't know what any of that means. I assume this is some kind of school board position. Yeah. At the time, he said he had six kids, five of whom attended school in Durham. And so he just wanted to be on the board. People were concerned about his ethics, not because of the murder charges, but because of the embezzlement. I was like, oh, come on. But yeah, yeah. The embezzlement for sure. No word on if he was elected. I couldn't.

I couldn't find that. That's generally a no. Yeah. I would guess not. Yeah. And that is the story of Ken Parks and what is believed to be the first successful sleepwalking defense in Canada. That was really good. Yeah.

I was fascinated by that. I really think was sleepwalking. I do, too. Yeahing. I do too. Yeah. I do too. And what a terrible thing like. Yeah. To have to live with.

Yeah. You know what's a terrible thing to live without? What? Our Patreon. I legitimately had no idea where you were going with that. I keep it spicy here. I keep you guessing. Y'all, if you want more of us, we've got bonus episodes at the yin-yang.

That's right. Do you pronounce the G's in yin-yang? I don't think it's a yin-yang. No, it's yin-yang, right? What? I think it's actually that all of the letters are silent and you don't fucking say it well anyway we got bonus episodes coming out of somewhere so join us on patreon won't you um what was our most recent bonus episode what

what we covered it was pretty good that's what i remember that's you did that you did that fancy apartment building oh oh yes if you want to hear about a wild ex-girlfriend is a wild ex-girlfriend and i can't for the life of me think of what i covered christmas oh oh it was a christmas special oh god yeah i covered a christmas family annihilator it was a very special. Oh, God. Yeah. I uncovered a Christmas family annihilator. It was a very brandy Christmas. It was. With blood everywhere. It was.

Okay, well, maybe that wasn't the best advertising of our Patreon. But you get all that at the $5 level, plus access to the Discord, where we chitty chat the day away. And at the $7 level, you get all that, plus a monthly bonus video. A bonus video, folks. I'm just going to shart. You're just going to shart? Wow.

I'm trying to do an ad here, and you're just going to shart. Well, anyway, you also get inducted on the end of the podcast, and you get a sticker and a card with our autographs. And then at the $10 level, you get all that. All that. Plus a shart. Plus episodes a day early. And free. And free. 10% off merch. Woo! Alright, well, that was

well said. That's exactly right. Alright, what are you telling us about? Oh, an innocent joke. An innocent joke. Are you ready for an innocent joke? Yeah. First of all, shout out to the Eastlake Conspiracy episode of Dateline, plus a bunch of articles and YouTube videos. I thought you were, like, getting this information from, like, a QAnon website or something when you said...

Oh, God. I'm very into QAnon. And, Brandi, you know, Donald Trump didn't accomplish what he wanted to because of the deep state. That's why. Okay. Okay. That's why there's not a wall. Excellent.

Brandi, why do you look so uncomfortable? You know, I can't help it. See, I defended Donald Trump there. Did you? Yeah. That's what that was? That's what that was. Oh, okay.

Also, some articles and YouTube videos from your friends at your second favorite TV channel, Oxygen. No! What's my first favorite? Game Show Network? Yes! You have to have me tell you what your first favorite okay anyway um i would tell you um the name of the show on oxygen that this comes from but it's such an oxygen thing they give it away with the title of the show except for that one that was like oh wait that was an id show it wasn't an oxygen show

yeah obsession dark desires i hate that i hate that it's disgusting yeah that's that episode was about stalking which i don't really think fits that name at all so do you remember when dove chocolate commercials used to be like weirdly sexual yes yeah yeah that's what that means you see like the dumb rappers like silky dove chocolates are delicious, though. Well, yeah, I didn't say they weren't delicious. They're the smoothest chocolate. You put one of those suckers in, this is how you do it, Kristen.

You weren't impressed when I told you how to do a York peppermint patty. Well, yeah, wasn't it just you put it in your mouth and you let it melt a little? Like, no shit. Which is also how you do it. Maybe people don't know and they've been doing it wrong the whole time they're just putting that thing in there just chomping down on it no you gotta let that sucker melt and get that creamy chocolate going and then you'll be like hmm this is a sexual speaking of creamy chocolate do you remember the song chocolate rain like the youtube thing do you mean purple yeah no yeah yeah

chocolate rain did you know that that has a really complex political message to it? No. No, Brandy. No. It 100% does. No. That guy may say, oh, there's a complex message. That's after the fact that there's no way.

So I've just been listening to this new trivia podcast that somebody recommended to us in the Discord. It's called Triviality. I fucking love it. I've listened to way too many episodes. But yeah, that was one of the questions on a recent episode. And they had more information than I have to give to you now about some pretty complex themes. Brandy. Within the song, Charlotte Rain.

And no one, no one got it because it was delivered in such a funny manner. Hang on. Oh, well, now I'm looking at the lyrics. Huh? Raised your neighborhood insurance rate.

Makes us happy living in a gate. well you know what it is it is this is a complex political song and no one knows it i don't know about complex but like i can just like hear this guy in my head. Chocolate rain. Yes. Some stay dry and others feel the pain. Chocolate rain. Huh. Okay.

Well. I had no idea. I'm going to have to do more digging into this. The same crime has a higher price to pay. The judge and jury swear it's not the face. That, okay, yeah. No, you got me. Uh-huh.

That's a song about racism that I had no idea. It is. It's 100% a song about racism. I am sorry, chocolate rain man. Wow. Worse than swearing, worse than calling names. Say it publicly and you're insane. Oh, my God.

Yes. Oh, my God. Who else's mind is blown right now? You know what this is like? What? This is like, you know, when you grow up to be an adult and you watch Mrs. Doubtfire and he talks about her power tool in the bedroom and you all go, oh, my God. Okay, do you know my moment like that? What's your moment like that? It is in Don't Tell Mom all go, oh my God. Okay. Do you know my moment like that?

What's your moment like that? It is in don't tell mom the babysitter's dead. Okay. Okay. So the premise there is that Sue Ellen's like a 17 year old, but she's pretending to be an adult to work in an office, whatever for the summer because they killed the babysitter on accident. Right.

So at one point she's talking about being stressed out and she's just going to go home and relax for the weekend. And Rose, her boss, is like, cut up a little cucumber, put that on your eyes. And she says something about not having a cucumber. And she goes, honey, a girl of your age should always have a cucumber in the house. Oh, my. Yes. Oh, my.

And you were just like, yeah, veggies are important. Veggies are important. Fruits, too. Man, I've learned a lot about chocolate rain today. I know. I feel like such an ignorant slut. Who knew? I had no idea.

Well, I think we can end the episode right here. No, we cannot. No. All right. Picture it. Memorial Day weekend, 2011. We're in East Lake, Ohio, a town cleverly named for being east of Cleveland and on a lake. Wonderful.

The funny thing is, it's not that far east on the lake itself. Okay. But you know. You know. Whatever. Whatever. East Lake you know. You know. You know. Whatever. East Lake was Patrick Sabo's stomping grounds. Patrick was in his early 40s, and he was covered in tattoos. He even had a hand tattoo, which is your next step, Brandi.

You got to get there. I don't know that I'm getting a hand tattoo. I'm not ruling it out. Okay. I guess you're not as hardcore as Patrick then, huh? Obviously not. So, I've got some shady stuff in here in the episode of dateline the facial hair was a little scruffy he had the thing yeah he had the thing i hate which is like the mustache overfloweth onto the top lip not a good

look it's not good and you know initially that's initially. That's a very simple grooming thing, gentlemen. And if you want somebody to want to kiss those lips, you got to keep that. She's not going to part that curtain. This is a public service announcement. So, yeah, I was watching that and I was like, Patrick's kind of a rough looking dude. But then I saw him on the Oxygen show. He'd clearly gotten a little trim up. Looking pretty good.

Okay. Looking good. Okay. All right. I judge everyone in these stories i think that just goes to show with a little simple grooming but you know he was just living his best life doing his best but things weren't great after high school he joined the army and he'd become an army ranger. And man, he was very proud of being an army ranger.

So he let folks know, I was an army ranger. Did you know I was an army ranger? Did someone ask for an army ranger? I'm right here, an army ranger. So he'd been an army ranger. Right, yes. Which I think is probably a big deal. It is a big deal.

It's a very special distinction. Very few people. But yeah. And if I had done it, you would know about it every day. So at this point in his life, I don't know if he'd freshly left the military or what. But the bottom line was times were tight and he'd had a few run ins with the law. Nothing major, but law enforcement knew his name. And it was around this time that an old friend reached out to him.

Her name was Chrissy Metter. Chrissy and Pat had gone to high school together, and they'd been good friends in school, but afterward they'd lost touch. Pat joined the Army, because I don't know if you know this, but he became an Army Ranger. He was an Army Ranger. And Chrissy went to college and married a guy named David. And she and David had four daughters.

And at one point they moved out of Ohio. Was he super hot? David's very hot. Wow. Okay. I would describe David as like, you know, like a nice looking, you know, white guy. Like, you know. All right.

He was just kind of your average dude. Yeah. I mean, like a nice looking average white white guy like you know all right he was just kind of your average dude yeah i mean like a nice looking average white guy is what i'm saying all right but now chrissy was back in ohio because she and her ex were going through a messy divorce so chrissy and pat reconnected on facebook it'd been like 20 years since they last saw each other, but they talked about their lives. And, you know, initially they kind of bonded by trash talking their exes. But, you know, there's a limit to how much you can trash talk an ex. And frankly, Chrissy was becoming a drag. Every conversation was a pity party for Chrissy. Oh, poor me. Poor me. My life is so hard. I hate my ex. I hate him with a fiery passion of a thousand suns.

I spend every waking moment talking about how much I hate him. It's my favorite pastime. And Pat listened, and eventually he was like, hey, you know, maybe you just move on. But that was not Chrissy's style. Every conversation was my ex-husband did this. My ex-husband did that. I hate my ex-husband. Have I mentioned my ex-husband? I hate him. At one point they were on Facebook Messenger and Pat was like, hey, why don't you save your money and hire a hitman? LMAO. Oh, no. He was obviously kidding. Because he put LMAO after it?

Yeah. And she responded appropriately. She said LOL right back. So just calm down. Wipe that look off your face. But then a few hours later, when Pat and Chrissy were talking over Skype, Chrissy was like, hey, would you mind meeting my dad for dinner? Chrissy's dad was a 76-year-old widower named Al Zambori. He was a retired police officer. It struck Pat as a little odd that Chrissy wanted him to have dinner with her dad.

I mean, Pat didn't even know Chrissy's dad's first name. Yeah. But Pat was like, okay. Like, she wanted just the two of them to have dinner? Yeah. Yeah, that's super fucking weird. No, Brandy. Yes, it's weird. Just the two of us building castles in the sky. At this point, someone popped out of a bush. And that person said to Pat, hey, Pat, have you ever heard the saying, there's no such thing as a free lunch? And Pat was like, no, I haven't. Why do you ask? And the person was like, oh, no reason.

And they popped back behind the bush. Oh, OK. And pretty soon, Al Zambori picked him up to go to dinner and it didn't take long for things to get weird. Where'd they go? They drove to this restaurant. You knew I was all over it. They drove to a restaurant called The Captain's Club, which is now closed, but in its prime,

boasted a whopping three stars on Yelp. And in their About the Business section, the owner bragged that, quote, we take pride in our menu being as from scratch as possible. What the fuck does that mean? It means it's not from scratch. So they showed up at the restaurant and Al evidently never mastered the art of small talk because right from the jump, he was like, look, I want you to kill my daughter's ex-husband. If I could shoot straight, I'd have done it myself. Wow.

What? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Pat was stunned. Yeah. He's like, Al is. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. OK. Pat was stunned. Yeah. He's like, Alice. It's like, wow, this this burger is from scratch, I think. Can we talk about something else now? Pat was just like, oh, my God. He had been totally joking in that Facebook message. Yeah.

But Al was serious. Al told Pat that Chrissy's ex, David, had a big life insurance policy, like $1.5 million, and that Chrissy would make a ton of money off his death. So if Pat would just do them this solid, by murdering a man with four children, we've all been there, it's all fine, then Al and Chrissy would give Pat 50 grand from the insurance payout. Win, win, win, am I right?

No! Is this not nuts? Yeah, coconut! Then Al showed him a picture of the target. And, you know, it's David. Yeah. Obviously, he was super hot because his name was David. And then Al gave Pat David's address in Atlanta.

Pat was floored. Yes, he was down on his luck, and yes, he had this experience as an army ranger, but that didn't mean he was willing to go kill some random guy. No! Holy crap, it was a Facebook joke! Oh my gosh. But Pat was pretty chill, and he was like, cool, cool, cool. Yep, I'm so glad you took my Facebook message seriously.

Guess you guys have never heard of dark humor. Okay. And as soon as their meal from hell was over, Pat called the cops. In his 911 call, he was as hyper as you could be. I mean, he sounded just like anyone would sound in this situation. So he was like, I was approached at the captain's club to murder somebody for 50 grand. So I need somebody out here. Yeah. And the dispatcher was like, wow, OK.

So she got his name. And then she was like, oh, right. Because everyone at the police station knew Pat Sabo. So the dispatcher kept him on the line. And she was like, OK, who approached you? And this is when things got wonky. Because Pat had to be like, like okay i don't know the guy's first name and i don't even know the name of the guy i'm supposed to kill oh my god but this

is for real this old geezer's serious so the police got him home got him to come down to the station and meanwhile everybody's like okay what are the chances this is total bullshit but patrick came in told them everything he knew, showed them David's picture and address. And even though Patrick's story was a little coconuts, Pat had given them enough information to make them load up their confetti cannons. Because, Brandy, I don't care how old you are. I don't care about your political affiliation or where you're from. We all love a murder-for-hire sting. It's the true crime story that unites us all.

We all love it. The first step in the investigation was to run a background check. And by that I mean they for sure Googled the address that they had been given and found that indeed that house belonged to David Meter, Chrissy's ex-husband. So let's stop to talk about poor, innocent David. Let's. David and Chrissy had been married for like 17 years before they divorced. From David's perspective, the marriage had been bad. Okay, I really appreciated the oxygen story on this

because it drives me crazy in all these stories when it's like, we had the perfect relationship and then all of a sudden it just went wrong. No, no one ever believes that. And he didn't try to do that here. He said that the marriage had been bad, but he loved his kids. He felt that the only good things

that came out of that marriage were his kids. Over the years, his career took off and he had opportunities to work outside of Ohio. And Chrissy didn't like that. She wanted to stay close to family. And things just got more and more tense until finally they separated. And that's when things got really nasty. Chrissy accused David of physically abusing her and their four daughters. I want to pause. I didn't find anything backing up those claims, but that is something she has said. At one point, he said he was living in the 10th floor of a building and they were arguing over the phone.

And Chrissy said, we don't miss you. The girls don't't need you and you're worth more to us dead than you are alive you should just jump oh my gosh during this exceptionally shitty time I believe David was living in Baltimore and Chrissy was living with the girls in Ohio and David owned his own business and it appeared to be pretty successful. It's in the automotive industry. And around this time, he went to Las Vegas for a conference. And at this work conference, he met a woman named Lonnie. He and Lonnie had instant chemistry. And they were like, woo woo, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. And they were like, woo-woo, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. And they meant it. And after the conference, Lonnie went home to Atlanta, and David went back to Baltimore. But David and Lonnie stayed friends. And Lonnie told him, hey, you know, you're in this tough situation with your wife.

You've got those daughters you love. You two could get back together. Would you want to do that? And he was like, um, um no and then he sang that song hell no do the no no no hell do the no what song is that that's a song i think it's like a youtube then he sang chocolate rain and she was You know, that has a complex political message behind it. And he was like, no, it doesn't. And then she exposed him for being an ignorant white man.

David did not want to get back together with his wife. That ship had sailed. And so the next time he was in Atlanta, he took Lonnie out for their first date. And it sounds like it was a real sexy time because their first date was at her church. Oh, God. Right? What the? I mean, yes, God.

God was there. And Jesus and the Holy Spirit. This reminds me of the Patreon episode I did where the guy took his date to Panera. I mean. Yeah. If I'm going on a date and they're like, hey, there's a potluck at my church tonight. Oh, God. I know.

What would you rather do? Anything. Panera? Panera? Panera. Okay. Yeah. Hmm. Prettyera. Okay. Yeah. Hmm.

Pretty lame, though, right? I mean. Yeah. Hmm. There can be good singing at church. There's no good singing at Panera. I never want to go on a date to church. I'm just saying.

Wow. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Yeah, okay, okay. I mean, it's a real tough call, church-repreneur. David and Lonnie were so happy together, but things weren't going great between David and Chrissy. According to Lonnie, anytime David's daughters visited them in Atlanta, if the girls went more than 10 or 15 minutes without responding to one of Chrissy's phone calls or texts, Chrissy would call the police and say she didn't know where her children were and that she was afraid they were being hurt. Oh, my gosh. It got to the point that the police were showing up at every family event with obviously like no warning because Chrissy was a fucking disaster. But Lonnie and David were in love and after about a year and a half of dating they got engaged. David gave Lonnie a ring with six diamonds around the center to represent his four children from

his previous marriage and her two children from her previous marriage. OK, that's a lot of damn kids. They seem very happy. That's a lot of damn kids. What's your limit? I don't know. There were four of us. My mom and Steve both came into the marriage with two kids.

And that was a lot of damn kids. Wow. You know what? I hope none of them listen to this show because it's like, who do they want to kick out? But that's a lot of damn kids. Wow, you know what? I hope none of them listen to this show because it's like I'm very grateful to have all of my siblings but that's a lot of damn kids. And the timeline is messy here but the bottom line is Chrissy knew

that Lonnie and David were engaged and you know she took it super well as you can imagine. Yeah. So all of a sudden she started dragging her feet with the divorce and she became more difficult than ever before which is impressive because she'd set the bar so high. And when Lonnie and David were finally able to get married, they got married on a Thursday night, a few weeks before their like scheduled wedding. Yeah.

Just because they knew what Chrissy was all about. They didn't want her to ruin anything. So like when his daughters came in, you know, they already had the outfits laid out for the girls and they were like, hey, let's all go to the park. Right. So Lonnie and David got married and everything was beautiful. And at some point in all this, David got custody of his oldest daughter. He didn't have custody of the other three, but he was concerned about how they were being raised. So he decided to fight for primary custody of all of his children. This will surprise no one, but the custody battle between David and Chrissy was epic. But poor David didn't know that they were like murder for hire bad.

He thought it was just like bad, bad. So David was just living his life in Atlanta. He had a nice house in the suburbs. His business was successful. And Lonnie had long flowing blonde hair. So what more could you want? And they had the type of blended family that does a lot of posed pictures on steps, you know? Oh, yeah.

That's a good look. That's a happy blended family right there. Did you guys do the step pictures? No, we didn't do the step pictures? No. We didn't have any step pictures. Well, I know the glamour shots fiasco. And I won't. Wow.

Way to bring it up. Way to just squeeze lemon juice into that wound. You guys, Brandy didn't get to go to bed. I was promised glamour shots. I never received glamour shots. You want to talk about it? Still fresh. Still pretty fresh.

It's about 20 years ago now, right? Yeah. About that. What was the story that by the time you got your braces on? Yeah, by the time I got my braces off, glamour shots wasn't a thing anymore. Well, that's not really your mom's fault. It is my mom's fault. I don't think we can play more for that. It is my mom's fault. I don't think we can blame her for that.

It is my mom's fault. She went to that glamour shots in Oak Park Mall and she said, you go on and get out of here. No one wants this anymore. So, but meanwhile, back in Eastlake, David's nutty ex-wife and her ex-father-in-law were plotting his murder. Oh, my gosh. Can you believe this? No. And the police in Eastlake were pumped.

They were like, hell yeah, it's time for some undercover work. But before they could put on their fake mustaches and trench coats, they called the police in Georgia. And they were like, hey, could you check on David Meter? Don't let him know you're there and definitely don't let him know that someone has taken a hit out on him. But could you boys just check and make sure he's still breathing? So Georgia police drove to David's nice house and they parked in his nice neighborhood and they watched him be alive and they didn't say shit to him. neighborhood and they watched him be alive and they didn't say shit to him. And meanwhile, the police back in Eastlake did some vocal exercises and improv-ing to prepare for their biggest roles yet.

Detective Christopher Bowerstock was cast as the leading man. He would play Vincent, a.k.a. Vince, a tough, cool guy who wore black leather jackets and had connections to the mob. Oh, no. Yes, Brandy. This is too complicated. It would be the performance of his career, Brandy. Looking back on the experience, he recalled that he had to change, quote, how he acted,

talked, everything. You know, like you do when you're undercover. So Pat and Vince were now the dream team, taking care of all your hitman needs in East Lake, Ohio. Population like 18,000, so hopefully they weren't too busy. At this point, the whole goal of the investigation was to build up evidence against Chrissy and Al. For their first step, Pat called up Chrissy on Skype, and he was like, ooh, I've got just the guy for you. His name is Vince, and he's going to kill your ex-husband, just like you asked.

And Chrissy said a ton of incriminating stuff because she had no idea she was being recorded. Yeah. And afterward, Pat was like, what an idiot. And then he handed the recording over to the police, and the police were like, Pat, you never hit record. No! Which I'd love to be shady about that. But how many times have we done it? Too many times on this podcast. Too many times I've pulled a Pat and gotten you to say a ton of incriminating stuff and then didn't record any of it. But Pat was no quitter. The next day he called again and this time he hit record like a genius.

And he tried to get Chrissy to say a bunch of incriminating shit all over again. And he was like, this isn't hypothetical. This is real. And by the way, Vince wants to meet your dad. And by the way, Vince wants to meet your dad. P.S. Chrissy, it's totally normal that two hitmen want to chat constantly and have a bunch of face-to-face meetings about a murder-for-hire plot. Please don't second-guess any of this. It's not weird at all. Okay. Except it is.

I mean, shouldn't that be a red flag? I would think so. I mean, clearly Chrissy's head wasn't in the game. And Chrissy was like, no worries. I'm an idiot. This all sounds great. So my dad will meet up with you and Vince. No problem.

But before Al and Pat and Vince could meet up, Pat called Al up on the phone to talk about Vince. Pat was like, this guy Vince, he's done this before, Al. He spent time in prison in California. Put it this way, this dude scares the piss out of me. Then they talked money. Because Detective Bowerstock, aka Vince, wanted some money up front. Pal told Al that Vince, up front pal told al that vince pat told pal pat told this is too complicated are we even hitting record here he said that vince wanted somewhere between two grand and three grand and he was like will that be a problem and al was like a little bit and Pat was like well how much could you get tomorrow which again I feel like surely Pat I mean hitmen don't like yeah take your bottom dollar for this kind of job but anyway anyway who am I to criticize and Al was like I could probably get

three thousand if I had to so the day, the three of them met up inside Vince's car in an empty parking lot and the car was rigged up with cameras. And Detective Bowerstock had gone full method acting for his role. Vince had his goatee on point

plus a lovely Harley Davidson shirt and jeans. You know, hitman clothes. So Pat made the introduction and skedaddled, leaving Al and Vince alone in the car. And Vince was like, so what's going on here? And Al said that David had divorced his daughter and was pulling some real shit on her. He took one kid and he's threatening to take the rest of them. And Vince was a hit man with a conscience because he said,

this is the father of your grandchildren, you understand. And Al said, yes, I understand fully, more so than you think. More so than you think? Yeah, I don you think yeah I don't know I don't know what that means exactly like I really get it Vince said what made you think of killing this guy and Al said what made me why not is the only answer have. He's such a scumbag. And with that, they wrap things up. Al handed over the money, said, you've got the money. God bless. Have fun. And that is what we sports fans call a slam dunk, a touchdown, a home run, a goal. A touchdown, a home run, a goal!

No. I lived in Mexico as a kid. People are going to think that's a weird joke, but that's the truth anyway. So they had Al on tape, but they needed more. They'd seen Dateline. They knew there was a formula you follow when you're doing a murder-for-hire sting. What's that? Haven't you listened to enough of my episodes now? It's like first you get it all on tape, and you ask the question, like,

Hey, man, are you sure you really want to do this? You have to get them saying, yes, I'm for sure. And then, like, well, I'm just going to let it unfold, Brandi, so you're surprised. Okay, all right, all right. So at this point, not a minute too soon, investigators decided to reach out to David. So they showed up. What? So he can play dead?

That's exactly. Yes, that's it. All right. I do. I do. I'm familiar with the formula. There's, like, a police textbook, and, like, if you watch enough Dateline, you know what the textbook is. Okay.

Yes. So they showed up at his house in Georgia. But Lonnie was the one who answered the door. And she was like, David's not here. He's out of town on business. He's in Florida. And they were like, yikes. We need to talk to him stat. And they were like, yikes, we need to talk to him stat.

And they told her the whole story. Here's kind of the wild thing. She was actually. So first of all, she was not super surprised. Wow. But she was very relieved because she was like, they finally caught her because Chrissy was a mess. Yeah.

And yet there was a level of fear, but also relief. Yeah. So Lonnie called David and he was like, I mean, the poor guy was just like getting out of a conference, a meeting. And he's like, holy fuck, my ex-wife is nuts. But this, he did not say fuck, they're church going folks. First date, Panera and church. Anyway, I mean, you know, people know I'm making stuff up here. But anyway, by this point, police got on the phone with David, and they were like, work with us, buddy.

Your ex-wife and father-in-law think that you're being murdered right now, and we're going to need your help to pull this off. Could you please take some photos of yourself looking dead? We want basically head shots because we want to Photoshop a bullet wound into your head. Oh my gosh. Yep. Yep. So David laid down on the floor of his Florida hotel room. That's grim.

I know. I took some really, I mean, it's funny, but it's not funny. No. These really hilarious selfies shot at a very unflattering angle. And he's trying to look dead. So he's kind of like looking. Oh, no. And then he sent them off to the police.

And time was of the essence because Vince was supposed to meet up with Chrissy and Al in a few hours to show them the picture of David being 100 percent dead. And he needed that picture right away. So one of the crime intelligence analysts pulled up one of the photos in Photoshop. And it's important to note that they didn't have much time to do this job, okay? Okay. And they were doing their very best. Uh-huh. And it's a real A for effort situation here, but OMG, it looked like Microsoft Paint.

Oh, no. Do you have a picture of it? So hang on, I'm going to show you the picture. And then when you do the collage for the episode, I will use it. Because this is hilarious. Okay. I'm sorry, I snorted.

Hang on. Let me see if I can find this, and I'm going to show you my computer. Okay, David. You are truly not going to believe this. No. Yep. Yep.

No. Can you describe what you're seeing? You guys, ladies, gentlemen, this is terrible. I don't even know. terrible. I don't even know. It's like there's like a bullet hole and then there's the trickle of blood.

And the blood is pixelated, which I don't know. Blood is usually not pixelated. I think it's not usually. My period's a real mess. All these little squares everywhere. So it was terrible.

It was this Photoshopped image that should not fool anyone, but they ran with it anyway. By this point, the meeting time was drawing near, and Pat got a phone call. Chrissy didn't want to meet up. So Pat was like, Vince is a very scary dude. He wears Harley Davidson t-shirts and jeans. I would not mess with this guy if I were you. You better show up. And so she was like, okay, fine.

And she showed up at the meeting. Once again, they got into Vince's car. And, of course, Vince did the totally normal hit guy thing that all hit guys do. Hit man, what did I, did I call him a hit guy? You did. It's a new name. Okay. It's for the more casual hit man what did i did i call him a hit guy you did it's a new name okay it's for the more casual hit man the ones who wear early and jeans and jeans they keep it cash yeah they've got sneaks on too for sneaking and so he talks to chris and he's like he's the father of your kids why did you want to do this and Chrissy said he beat me he beat the kids and eventually Al gets sick of this hit man with a conscience bullshit

because he knows there's a photo he's supposed to see and he's like just let me see it so Vince showed Al the photo for all of two seconds and i think it helps that al was like 76 and then al showed vince the insurance policy worth 1.5 million yeah what was he like did they make sure that al was looking at it like without his readers on like well they say really old people are bad at spotting photoshop yeah i mean and they better been praying for that. And I noticed, like, so you can only do the audio on this. Or at least I only heard the audio. And it seemed like, you know, Vince showed him the image for, like, two seconds and then didn't want to show it to Chrissy.

Uh-huh. So, you know. All right. As you wouldn't because the image is nuts. Yeah. And pretty quickly after that, OMG, out of absolutely nowhere because the image is nuts. Yeah. And pretty quickly after that, OMG, out of absolutely nowhere, the screech of sirens filled the air. Oh, no.

Police cars surrounded them. Vince, the hitman, was filled with rage. I will now read you a transcript from that moment. Vince, who the fuck is this? Chrissy, I don't know't know Vince what did you guys do Chrissy we did nothing Vince did you set me up Al no no no

Vince did you fucking set me up Chrissy no and he's like yeah bitches I set you up and at this point police surrounded the car and they were like get out get on the ground and then they bent down and whispered in Vince's ear, you're doing a great job, buddy. We're all so proud.

We think you could be on Broadway. But then they remembered that they had to act too. And so they were like, on your knees, scumbag. And they arrested Al, Chrissy and Vince. But, you know, they had their fingers crossed when they did the arrest of Vince. And they were brought into the station and questioned. And Al and Chrissy were like, oh, what? I don't I don't understand.

I'm new to this country. I'm just an innocent little thing. Huh? They played so dumb. And it was just like, oh, goodness. Yeah. And Chrissy was like, so I don't understand. It's like, is David really dead? I don't even know. And the officer was like, I I don't understand. It's like, is David really dead?

I don't even know. And the officer was like, I'm not privileged to tell you. Seven months later, Chrissy was on trial. The prosecution had a case that we in the true crime biz call a slam dunk. I won't do the whole thing. Yeah. And it was a goal. I won't do the whole thing.

Yeah. And then it was like, goal! That is the best. That is the best. Soccer should be more popular in this country. No, because it should. It's a 90-minute game that ends in a 0-0 tie. It's action-packed, Brandi. It's action-packed the whole time.

It's always moving. Always moving. No. Brandi. It's action-packed the whole time. It's always moving. Always moving. No. Brandi, that's just a fact. I can't commit to anything that's going to go on for 90 minutes and possibly end in a 0-0 tie. That's pretty rare, though. It's not that rare. Even then, it's a pretty exciting game.

It's not. It's pretty exciting. No. Hmm. All right. Brandi's more of a badminton person. Very into badminton. So, you know, they had Pat as the fabulous informant whose little Facebook joke got him in all this hot water

and all the recordings from those damning conversations. And they had Detective Bowerstruck, who'd played the role of Vince to much critical acclaim, in my opinion. And the prosecution had a truckload of evidence. But they also had motive. They said that with David dead, Chrissy got everything she wanted. She'd get his insurance money, and she'd get full custody of their daughters. Yeah. I believe David testified about his and Chrissy's custody battle.

He said that he'd fought for primary custody out of concern for his children. Leading up to their divorce, he found out that his 13-year-old had missed 30 days of school in a single school year. Wow. Yeah. And that Chrissy had called police on their 16-year-old 10 times. Oh my gosh. Yeah. He basically wanted to get his kids out of a terrible environment. Oh my gosh. Yeah. He basically wanted to get his kids out of a terrible environment. Things had gotten so bad with the 16-year-old, who was the oldest, that one time she was supposed to get on a plane and fly back to her mom's, and the girl just refused. And David was able to get custody of her, and of course he was trying to get custody

of the other three. And that infuriated Chrissy because she was such a good mom. And that infuriated Chrissy because she was such a good mom. Mm-hmm. But according to Chrissy's defense, that was all a big mix-up. Chrissy's defense was that this was all her father's doing. You see, he snooped in her unsecured laptop. And that's how he saw that Facebook conversation between Pat and Chrissy. And Al saw that joke that Pat made about hiring a hitman. And Al was like, what a great idea. And he

masterminded the whole thing. Chrissy wanted nothing to do with this mess. Brandy, wipe that smirk off your face. And in fact, Chrissy felt so strongly about this whole thing that she testified in her own defense. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. I would like to pause here and say that everyone deserves a good defense, but there's no defending how this woman's hair looked in court. I do have a picture to share with you. Chrissy has very long hair, almost boob-length hair,

which is a term we should use, right? Yeah. We say shoulder length. We say chin length. Why not boob length? Yeah. But anyway, that day she must've been a little pressed for time.

What? People typically say bra length. Oh, is that a thing? Yeah. Oh, that's a much classier way, I guess. It is. Hmm. Mm-hmm.

But you don't say top of your t-shirt length. You say collarbone length. Oh, do they say collarbone? Yeah. And not shoulder? I mean, aren't your shoulders two different lengths? Well, I mean, not...

Shoulder length and collarbone length are different lengths. Hibbity, hibbity. Am I shoulder? No, you're collarbone. Oh. You guys, that was me trying to get my hair down further. Anyway, I want you to envision this just in your head, and then I'll show you the photo.

Okay. I'm ready. So she's got a lot of hair, okay? Boob length, bra length, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. The very top section of her hair was in ringlet curls, and all of the rest underneath it was just kind of like naturally wavy. And the ringlets had been released on top of the waves. Okay.

It really looked like, I'm going to do my whole hair in ringlets. Oh, shit. What time is it? Yeah. Okay. Let me see if I can find this picture that I took. Oh, no. What?

Yep. What? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. So those are going to have to be the two pictures. We're going to have to include both of those in the collage. Yes.

Oh, my gosh. It's funny. I feel like I don't normally talk a ton about the hair and stuff. I can't believe that somebody is like real hairdo. Again, I want to defend her. Just I mean, it's weird to defend her at her sentencing. Her hair looked much better. I really think this was just an unfortunate.

Oh, my gosh. I have to testify in court today. I don't know what I'm doing. My hair is a reflection of that. Bless this mess. Oh, no. Okay. So Chrissy took the stand in her own defense and said that she was innocent.

She'd been doing her father's bidding. She hadn't even wanted to go to that meeting with the hitman. Pat Sabo had pressured her, and she was intimidated. She only sounded guilty in that meeting with Vince because she was so scared. She played along with Vince because she was afraid he would show up at her door and do something to her or her kids. She never wanted David to be killed, although he did abuse her and abuse the kids and commit a shit ton of adultery. Okay. And he was also responsible for that terrible hairdo.

Just pile it all on him. Can you imagine? She was like, also, I hate my hair, and David's responsible. But the jury deliberated for a few hours, and they found her guilty. Guilty. At her sentencing, David, I mean, oh, oh my god he did an amazing job uh he got up he didn't have a statement prepared because he said i didn't think i'd be able to read a statement today but i do want to talk and he said that chrissy had been a good mom at one point in time like he was

very generous to her i think but he said that in the previous two years their children had suffered tremendously yeah their their children had suffered tremendously. Yeah. Their physical health had suffered. They'd suffered emotionally. They'd suffered academically. And now that they were away from that situation with Chrissy, all of the girls were doing so much better. They were flourishing. Yeah. He told the judge he wanted Chrissy to receive the maximum sentence, which was 10 years. Yeah. Not because he hated his ex-wife, but because he loved his kids. He wanted what was best for his kids. He said 10 years would allow them to get more time away from that toxicity. I'm getting goosebumps. Yeah. And

it would allow them to get into adulthood by the time Chrissy got out of prison. Wow. Yeah. to adulthood by the time Chrissy got out of prison. Wow. Yeah. So they had a 16-year-old, a 13-year-old, and two 8-year-old twins. Chrissy's defense attorney, Michael Lear, asked the judge to put Chrissy on probation or house arrest. I, yeah. Fuck off.

I mean, really reaching for the stars there. Yeah. And reiterated that this was all Al's fault. there and reiterated that this was all Al's fault. He said instead of being a supportive father emotionally to his daughter, he, for whatever reason, let his anger and his hatred of David Meter drive him to commit these events and Christine Meter was sucked into this. Okay. Chrissy also addressed the judge, letting him know that she'd been a Girl Scout leader, a soccer coach, and a PTA room mother. So maybe we should all be real cool about this murder-for-hire business. Judge Eugene Lucci was sassy as hell, and he was like,

You've had a long list of job titles, and you can add another one to your resume. Convicted felon. Woo. He said he was appalled by Chrissy's lack of remorse. He said this was committed as a not necessarily for the money. This was done more as revenge for David Meter's persistence in looking out for his daughters. He then sentenced Chrissy to 10 years, the maximum under the law. That seems like not enough.

I agree. I agree. That's the maximum? Yeah. Holy shit. I mean, I think everyone's lucky that they reached out to Pat. Yeah. My God.

That same week, Chrissy's dad, Al, pled guilty and was sentenced to nine years in prison. He died after five years in prison. So, yeah, I mean, I'm sure they tried to get him to do some kind of plea deal. After the trial, Lonnie adopted all four of David's daughters, and they now call her mom. And they appear to be living a pretty normal life. Pat Sabo says it does his heart good to see that Lonnie adopted the four girls. He says he knows he did the right thing by coming forward.

But how's Chrissy doing? Well, in a statement a dateline she said i was very wrong in my actions and i'm paying dearly anyone who has been through a divorce that never ends can understand i was at the end of my rope no now it obviously goes on longer than that but no no i don't think anyone who's been through a bad divorce no understands oh yeah we'll just yeah we'll just uh murder him okay and um you know it's it's 2021 and you should know that chrissy is scheduled to be released this year oh my gosh yeah and that's the story of a little facebook joke that was good that's like your favorite kind of case it is my favorite kind of case i love murder for hires that end with no one getting hurt because it's always something stupid and hilarious. Yeah.

We all have a great laugh the whole time. And the people who get caught are always so stunned. Yes. My only criticism is they didn't show us, like, the video footage from inside the car. Oh, yeah. Because I want to know what Al wore. That's what you're missing? I feel like I'm missing a lot. Like, what would you wear

to meet a hit man? Or a hit dude? Or a hit guy? A hit guy? I have no idea. Probably black. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you're always wearing black. Yeah, odds are... What if you showed up in a Hawaiian shirt? Well, that'd be weird. You just want to throw everyone off? Unless we were meeting

at, like, a Jimmy Buffett concert and that's how I was going to blend in. Honestly, if you were trying to not be recognized, if like there was a far away shot and I saw like you, but you were in a like a Trader Joe's Hawaiian shirt, I'd be like, that can't be Brandy. It's not her. No. That is actually not a bad idea. That's my be Brandy. It's not her. No. That is actually not a bad idea. That's my tip for you. Also, if the hitman's like, hey, Brandy, let's talk this over a whole bunch. And I want to know all kinds of details on why you're doing this.

And, you know. You think that's not the way to go? I don't want a ton of money up front. But, you know, I'm willing to work on like a payment plan or something. They also. OK, I didn't write this part down. But, you know, in some insurance policies, if it's like an accidental death or a whoopsie surprise. Yeah. They also, okay, I didn't write this part down. But, you know, in some insurance policies, if it's like an accidental death or a whoopsie surprise, you get a double payout. It's called the whoopsie surprise.

And apparently, if you're a hitman and you know what you're talking about, you will ask if there's the whoopsie surprise clause. And so, like, Vince, you know, asked them about that clause because it would mean he'd make double, which for all you math nerds, $100,000. Anyway, that's just another tidbit for you. Fun fact to wrap it up. Whoopsie surprise. Whoopsie surprise clause. That's good. I enjoyed that very much.

Nobody got hurt. God, Chrissy sounds like a nightmare. Yeah. Good Lord. Yeah. Poor Lonnie and David and the kids. I hope they're all doing great they're doing great i hope they are doing great you want to hit some questions from the discord boy do i but how do we how do we get to there what are you talking about to access the discord all you have to do is join our patreon at the five dollar level

or higher you get on in there it's like a chat room a bunch of people in there always chitty chat chatting that's what the kids are saying these days chitty chat chatting yeah it's all over chat and chew yes yes did you do chat and chew i feel like i I know you did. Oh, I did. I didn't like the name. I did chat and chew. Isn't that where like you would take your sack lunch to the librarian and you'd talk about a book? You wouldn't take it to the librarian. Well, wouldn't you like meet up with a librarian and like, you know, am I making this up? No, the librarian was not involved.

I thought that the librarian like ran chat and chew. No, it the librarian, like, ran chat and chew. No, it was like a room mom ran chat and chew. Okay, is that so ridiculous to think that the librarian ran it instead of the room mom? I was having lunch with the librarian just chatting about a book. Well, wouldn't she be pretty damn qualified? I don't understand why that would be so terrible. It was like a kid's book club. And, like, once a month, you had lunch in the library. Sands Library. Okay Brandy you are being ridiculous for laughing about that.

That is not ridiculous to think that the librarian ran that. You're right but that was funny comical. Uh-huh. You're like oh is that where you had lunch with the librarian like I was just in there hanging out with Penny Palmer. I was trying to remember her name. Independence Palmer. Huh? Her name was Independence Palmer and she went by Penny. Yeah. Wow.

I remember her hair. Yes. She had very distinct hair. This is the hair episode. She had a perm. Oh, yeah. And that thing was always just so. Yeah. And she wore the sides back.

Swooped. Yes, with combs. Uh-huh. Yeah. I've always liked those combs. I wish they would come back. Okay. Legitimately, I wonder how people get them to work in their hair.

I feel like you've got to have just the right texture. You have to have the right hair. Yeah. And it might help if your hair is a little dirty. Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. That's just going to right hair, yeah. And it might help if your hair's a little dirty. Oh yeah, for sure. That's just gonna slide out. Like Slick Willie style. Slick Willie!

Na na na na na. Oh my goodness. Anyway, how'd we get here? Ooh, thoughts on the Hilaria Hillary Baldwin scandal? Have you been following this at all? Okay, I looked into it a little. It seems very strange to me.

It is super strange. Okay, Alec Baldwin's wife, Hilaria Baldwin, has a claim to always be from Spain. She has an accent that comes and goes. Yeah, their children have Spanish names. Uh-huh. Turns out her name is like Hillary Thomas. She grew up in Boston. Yes.

She was born in America. Yeah. Her parents have ties to Spain, but I'm not even sure they were born in Spain. It's very weird. And I have a rough opinion that I know will be unpopular, and we'll see if we cut it. What's that? Well, okay, I feel like a lot of this kicked off

because she posted that photo of herself with her infant. I don't know how old. But it's a beautiful picture of her in the bathroom. She's in lingerie. Obviously, she has this amazing body. Yeah, and she's had five damn kids yeah i mean truly yeah good for her god bless amy schumer made a joke and retweeted that photo and was like oh happy holidays for me and jean and then amy schumer had to like apologize yeah because it

was seen as body shaming and hilaria i think from what i read got a little on her high horse and was like you know body inclusivity includes me too blah blah blah blah i think that if you have a traditionally attractive body which means very thin for women yeah shut the fuck up about body inclusivity and body i mean in my opinion that is like when white people complain about reverse racism yeah which is not a thing yeah and i understand that occasionally skinny people get told eat a cheeseburger yeah that's not real oppression that's yeah it's not the same as fat shaming or all of the things that obese people carry around. So like, shut the fuck up. We'll get some letters.

We'll get some letters. Am I off base? No, I don't think so. I just read her response and I was like, hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Gwen Elaine 96 said, the button off my pants broke at work. So my pants are being held up by a rubber band.

What's the worst clothing mishap you've ever had? Ooh. I've got one. You do? Yeah. It was several years ago. I got this long skirt from Target. I thought it was really beautiful.

It had kind of like a slit kind of up the front with and it was a really drapey thing. So like it didn't really show anything above like, you know, the knees, but flowy, whatever. So I'd been wearing it all day and like, I kind of noticed like, man, this thing's kind of more sheer than I realized. Was there like a lining that had bunched up? No, but I mean, Target stuff is notorious for being sheer when it shouldn't be. So like, that's the thing. No, I realized, I think this is supposed to be a swimsuit cover up.

And I couldn't do anything about it. So that's my, I feel like that's my big, yeah, that's my big wardrobe mishap right there. And then it's like, well, I've got to stay behind the desk all day.

That's right. Yeah. I'm a big fan of wrap dresses. They fit my body well because I'm oddly shaped. And so. Raina, you're not oddly shaped i am so she's she's a trapezoid

so i used to wear them when i was a district manager i wore dresses like every day for work and so i'd wear a lot of wrap dresses well one day was particularly windy and so i had this wrap dress on and like i, I would travel between stores and just do, like, drop-in visits. So every time, like, I didn't realize how much of a mistake I was wearing that dress until I got out of my car and stood up, and my dress just flew right up in. Okay, you're reminding me of another wardrobe mishap that I have had. I had this really cute skirt back in the day when I was a reporter and it was kind of flowy.

And yeah, one day I wore it. And sure enough, gust of wind comes, blows it up. It was, of course, it happened in front of co-workers who were standing outside smoking. Yeah. And one of the guys was, oh, I could not stand this guy. Didn't like him. Yeah. And he said to me later when he came up like

i was still embarrassed yeah he comes up to me he goes yeah um maybe you shouldn't wear a skirt on a windy day fuck off yeah he was okay i'm gonna say this more we'll see how much of this whole episode gets cut anyway he was a total dick to to me for years and a total dick to Norm. And like three or four years ago, he reached out on Facebook and was like, oh, I just want you to know how cool I think it is that you guys are doing like gaming historian stuff and blah, blah, blah. I was like, fuck off. Fuck off.

You didn't know me. You didn't like me when you knew me. Yeah. And you like me now? Don't pretend to know me now. Bitch. Uh-uh. No. Bye. Ooh. like me when you knew me yeah you like me now know me now bitch no bye sticky situation ask who's your favorite animal crossing villager so we have judy who is my

favorite i love her um david's sister caitlin has i think his name is lucky and he's a mummy dog i'd really like to get him but i I'll be satisfied with my Judy for now. Kristen, did you fall asleep while I answered that? I did. I fell totally asleep. My name is Kristen says, do you believe that there is such a thing as cheesy jewelry? Yes, I do. And I love it.

My grandmother, who died a couple of years ago had like the wildest collection of earrings. I have dice earrings. I have earrings that look like giant tooth, like giant guitar picks that have paint splatters on them. Kyla took some lovely Chief's helmet heads that she wears. Brandi does not look jealous. They sound amazing. They are pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. So I am pretty jealous. I have very sensitive ears, so I can only wear like the standard.

Like I have to have a surgical steel post or my ears burn off. I'm skeptical, Brandi. Why? I don't know. I don't see you wearing a lot of cheesy stuff. I'd wear like one statement pair of earrings. I would. I would.

Okay. I used to have some like wacky Christmas earrings. Describe them for me. I had some that had jingle bells on them. It was like a, you know, just like a dangly like jingle bell. I'm really looking to blow the roof off with the cheesiness here. Yeah, you're right. I wouldn't take it to that level.

Oh, my God. Grazing and Stealing wants to know, Sweet Valley or Babysitter's Club, which character was your favorite from whichever series you preferred? Did you, oh. Okay, so I watched, I read Babysitter's Club Little Sister oh it was like what were you

some kind of baby I was pretty young when I read those I just remember because I think the main girl's name was maybe Karen

I think and it started out that her parents were divorced so she had two bedrooms and at each bedroom she had two one set of the stuff

and like that's how every one of those books started. And like that made me feel like I related to the book because I was young and my parents had gotten divorced. And yeah. So I liked those. You've always been like a young Karen. I loved Sweet Valley. Casey read Sweet Valley. She loved Sweet Valley.

Well Sweet Valley's I mean I don't know if she ever read the Sweet Valley High, but that was steamy. Was it steamy? Yes, it was. Like kid, like teen romance? Okay, I thought you were about to say kid porn. No! It was like... But I, those books, I mean, they were very formulaic.

They always had like the first couple pages were like explaining, we are twins, Jessica is wild, Elizabeth reads books. Okay. So when I was to the age that I would have been reading those, I read the Fear Street books. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The R.L. Stein, Fear Street, The Cheerleaders. You did Goosebumps. Oh, yeah. You were on the edge. Very edgy. Did you do Animorphs? People often say that.

No, I didn't read those. Those were weird to me. Those were for boys. Yeah, I think they were for boys. They seemed like they were for boys. That's so funny. I mean, they weren't, but. Yeah, you had to put your dick on the cover to open the book.

Stop it. No. I heard that they're making a Fear Street show for Netflix. I'll watch the shit out of that. Adjusted for Inflation asks, have you been surprised by the trend of people on Discord changing their screen names to fan fave

catchphrases from the show? Yes, and I love it. I love it. It's so sweet. I love it so much, yes. One, and they ask what are some of your favorites? There are a lot that I love. One that just popped into the Discord recently that made me laugh out loud.

Patty cut that. Yes. Because there are certain things that, you know, we say all the time and we don't really think about. Yes. Gina wants to know, is DP still Kristen's house guest? Has he tried to jump in on an episode yet? Did we talk about it on the Patreon episode or have we talked about it on a regular episode? I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. Okay. Recapping. Well, no. This is just like the start of any Sweet Valley High book. Yes. We have to recap some things for you to know. My parents are living with us right now because someone crashed into their RV.

Things are going great. My mom is accomplishing everything. She has, okay, polished all the woodwork. Cleaned the shit out of my pots that I didn't even know were that dirty. You show me what she did to your plates. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. She baking soda'd my plates to get out scratches.

She, like, touched up the woodwork with some paint. My father listened in on one of Norman's phone calls and then critiqued him afterward. I had to say, hey dad, maybe we pretend not to listen to each other's phone calls.

You know. So you know, DP's being DP. Yeah, it's very dp time no but we love having them here they've been fun yeah it's nice to have see i bet that's a really nice thing yeah just to have yeah yeah social time because norman and i like god with this pandemic first of all we didn't get out much anyway to begin with but now it's been like oh my gosh it's been almost a fucking year i know i know i can't wait to get my vaccine i'll tell you what uh yeah i'm like ready for them to tell me it's

like the public can have it no kidding i'm wondering when that will be too and at what point we'll reach you know herd immunity or whatever and we can all you know live our best lives yeah hopefully it's not that far into the future oh grazing is stealing asks favorite 80s 90s tgif show that you have re-watched on hulu since they've added them okay so i used to love tgif i loved yeah we both did boy meets world watch the shit out of that. Topanga. Yeah. So beautiful. Okay. I also loved Snick, Saturday Nights on Nickelodeon. Okay. Okay.

My favorite, which I don't think that this is available anywhere, and maybe somebody can tell me that I'm wrong. Are You Afraid of the Dark? I want to rewatch that so bad. No. Too scary. Did you think it was scary? Yes, I thought it was scary.

I mean, I thought it was scary as a kid. Yeah. It was kid scary. Well, I didn't like to be spooked. I know., I thought it was scary as a kid. Yeah, it was kid scary. Well, I didn't like to be spooked. I know. Still don't like to be spooked. Yeah, you still don't. You, on the other hand.

You're not into the scary things. Bob Moss for Life asks, do you have a meal tradition for New Year's Day? Lots of people do, like, black-eyed peas and stuff for luck. Do you guys? No. I don't either. I always feel so lame. It's never been a holiday that like.

And like sometimes we have plans. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes I feel like it. This year you're throwing like a giant rager. Oh, for sure. For sure. No. No.

Did you see the footage of the megachurch holding a Christmas Eve service? What the hell is wrong with people? Because God protects them, Kristen. God protects them from COVID. Interesting. Kind of an arrogant take. It sure is. Right?

Yeah. Should we end on a more positive note? We got a better one than that to wrap it up. Oh, I do want to answer this because I feel like it's becoming a thing. Megan 1023 wants to know, where's episode 129? So we've had a few questions like this thinking like there's some lost episode. I don't think it's that. I think probably we sometimes will do like an ad drop for another podcast and those only have to stay live for a certain number of days.

So we delete those. So no, there's not some like amazing secret episode. No, there's not. I think that's the one where Norm died. Oh, here's a fun one. Possum by Night asks, what's your favorite classic sitcom? Golden Girls for me. Oh, that is a classic sitcom format.

I Love Lucy. Yeah. Love I Love Lucy. Very good. Do you catch reruns every now and again? Yeah. Same with Black and White, Andy Griff every now and again? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same with Black and White Andy Griffith Show. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. See, I'd always change the channel and that would come on. Nick and I, not. Yeah, you're not that type. No. Norm's not that type, too. He does not like the black and white stuff. You know what's funny, though?

I love the Twilight Zone, which, like, almost all of them are in the black and white. So you're a real mystery is what that is. That's right. That's what that means. Complicated individual. All right. Should we move on to Supreme Court Inductions? This week we are reading your names and your favorite cookies.

Haley Cleveland. Sugar. Angela Silkworth. Milanos. Jasmine Jurado. Sugar cookies! Haley Cleveland. Sugar. Angela Silkworth. Milanos. Jasmine Jurado. Sugar cookies! Exclamation point. Alicia Connor.

Soft-baked pumpkin. Ashley Hobbs. Monster cookies. Alisa Ricard. Buttercream-frosted cinnamon pumpkin. Ooh, that's almost too many words. Almost! Kate Turner.

Chocolate chip. Jennifer Dindelbe Almost. Kate Turner. Chocolate chip. Jennifer Dendelbeck. Sugar cookie. Valerie Ferris. Oatmeal chocolate chip with coconut. Robin Lee Burton. Chewy coconut oatmeal. Emily H.

Chocolate chip. Chelsea B. Chocolate, chocolate chip. Do you remember that video? No. What is that? Do you remember that? Oh, well, anyway.

I'm sorry, we're doing something else. Chocolate chip cookie dough. Megan Ray. Heath Bar Cookies from Publix. Caitlin Pond. She put a note here that it's pronounced the better pond. Oh, a little sassy. That's David's sister. Sibling rivalry there.

What if you agree? White chocolate macadamia nut. Jessica Snow. Extremely undercooked chocolate chip cookies. Brittany Odom. Chocolate crinkle cookies. Amy Broadcorp. Snickerdoodles made by my daughter.

Tasha Lane. Cheesecake cookie. Oh, I didn't know that was a thing. Raspberry cheesecake cookie. Oh, I'm sorry know that was a thing Raspberry cheesecake cookie Oh, I'm sorry, I missed a word Sorry, Tasha Do you think her name was Tasha Lane Raspberry? Well, you know, I thought we had Megan T. Cinnamon

Megan T. Cinnamon Teresa Villalobos Soft chocolate chip Ariel Rosen Ranger cookies Welcome To the Supreme Court Thank you, all of you you for all of your support.

We appreciate it so much. I hope everyone had a happy holiday season and is moving on into 2021 in a positive manner. Don't say it like that. I'm real nervous. Just do your best this year. Exactly. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit.

Find us on Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. And then be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a

bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real expert. Oh, no, I didn't add my sources. Hold, please. That's very impressive. Thank you. This week, we're going to be real casual, Vince the Hitman style. Eastlake Conspiracy, episode of Dateline. Articles from Oxygen.com from their episode, I believe it was called Murder for Hire.

Wonderful. And also articles from Patch.com and the News Herald. I got my info from an article for Mental Floss by Matt Soniak, as well as articles for the Chicago Tribune, the Windsor Star, the Ottawa Citizen and City News Toronto. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.