Let's Go To Court! - 157: Amber Alerts!

Episode Date: January 20, 2021

Stephenie Woods was beyond exhausted. She’d just had a c-section a week earlier, when she gave birth to her daughter, Abby. So Stephanie laid down on her couch for a nap. Abby was asleep in her crib, and Stephanie’s one-year-old son, Conner, was in his playpen. Stephenie woke to a stranger at her door. The woman was Shannon Torrez. She told Stephenie that her car had broken down. Could she use her phone? Could she use her bathroom? Stephenie was groggy and taken off guard. Bewildered, she agreed to help the woman. But Shannon wasn’t there for Stephenie’s phone. She was there for her baby. Then Kristin tells us about Elizabeth Thomas. In the fall of 2016, 15-year-old Elizabeth was at a particularly vulnerable time in her life. She and her siblings had been homeschooled their whole lives by an abusive mother. The kids eventually made the brave decision to call Child Protective Services on their mother, and she was removed from the home. This meant that at 15, Elizabeth would enter public school for the first time. It was a rocky transition, but her health teacher, Tad Cummins made it better. He took a special interest in her. He cared for her. At least, it seemed that way at first. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: The 20/20 episode, “From Classroom to Captive” “‘The devil won, my dad freaked out,’ daughter of Tad Cummins pens letter before sentencing,” by Caitlyn Shelton for News Channel 9 “Teen kidnapped by former Maury County teacher Tad Cummins settles suit for $650,000,” by James Bennett for the Columbia Daily Herald “Tad Cummins sentenced to 20 years in prison for taking a teenage student from home for sex,” by Adam Tamburin for The Tennesseean “Tad Cummins’ wife files for divorce amidst Elizabeth Thomas Amber Alert,” by Natalie Neysa Alund for USA Today Network “Tad Cummins sentencing: Read the teen victim’s statement to teacher who took her for sex,” on The Tennessean In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Shannon Torrez” episode Snapped “MO Newborn Abducted Day of Stillbirth” NBC14 News “Kidnapped Baby Found” ABC News “Judge Gives Torrez Maximum Sentence” by Maggie Rotermund, emissourian.com “Franklin County woman sentenced in throat slashing and kidnapping” by Betsy Taylor/The Associated Press, The Columbia Missourian “Woman Gets 30 Years For Newborn Abduction” by The Associated Press, CBS News

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about a bad teacher. And I'll be talking about a kidnapping. Hold the phone. I'm just doing the same case from the bonus episode that we just recorded. So, okay everybody, literally two ago, we recorded the bonus episode. We both accidentally did kidnappings. Kidnappings, yeah. And now you come in here two days later

with another kidnapping case? You know, it had been a long time since we'd had a kidnapping. Uh-huh. And so now I feel like I just... Want to tell the same story twice. Yeah, I was just gonna... What if I...

Yeah, sign up for the Patreon, guys. No, this is a whole new kidnap. It's a whole new case. A whole different kidnapping. Don't worry, guys. There are plenty of kidnappings to choose from. Kidnappings coming out the wazoo. Well, that's fine.

Welcome, everyone. You know, Kristen... What? I... What? I feel like we didn't talk about this on the bonus episode and it was just a real mistake. And so I feel like maybe we just weren't ready to talk about it yet. But I think we have to talk about it now.

About what happened the other night. What happened the other night? Oh. Oh. Okay. I know we complain a lot about food on this podcast and we're not food critics. But. Okay.

We had a lovely dinner before we recorded, and then you ordered us a selection of treats for dessert. So this restaurant, yeah, you can, well, no, you keep telling me. Okay, but I think it is worth noting that this place is kind of a foodie restaurant. Yes. Yes. It's fancy boy lip glitter. Yeah, it's very adventurous. I basically get a chicken sandwich with nothing on it.

Yeah, that's how Brandy handles the adventure. That is how I handle the adventurous eating. But they have a really great bakery selection, so we always get a cookie and something to try. So you ordered us a sugar cookie. Delicious. An oatmeal cream pie.

Delicious. Love it. And a Rice Krispie treat. Who could go wrong with a Rice Krispie treat? We love Rice Krispie treats. On the website, they say we do like a little layer of something special in the Rice Krispie treat. They don't tell you what the layer is, but I thought, well, how bad could it be? Yeah. Terrible, turns out out because these motherfuckers what they what they do they put fucking raisins in the rice crispy treat and you guys it's worse

than it sounded it's so much the flavor of the raisin infiltrated the entire Rice Krispie Treat. It was like they also put raisin extract in there. They had to have. They had to have stomped on some raisins. Oh. It was terrible. It was disgusting. Who in the world puts raisins in a Rice Krispie Treat? You know, all I could think of is of is like politics have been so bad lately we

just want to have a nice meal and they do this to us that's right seems like a cruel joke this is terrible terrible okay let's chat about a kidnapping all All right. All right. I'm listening. What? What? I kind of lost my safari window. Found it. Don't worry. Grandma's here. She's ready to go.

There's a picture of Wayne Brady in the corner of my screen. Tried to delete him. He was just there. Okay. You ready? I'm ready. What about a kidnapping? It was mid-morning on September 15th, 2006, and Stephanie Woods was dozing on the couch. She had just gotten her one-year-old son, Connor, and her seven-day-old daughter, Abby, down for naps.

Oh, my God. Stephanie was exhausted. Not only was she taking care of two small children, she was also recovering from a C-section. Oh, no. Stephanie. Yeah. Just as Stephanie was drifting off to sleep, she heard a noise at the front door that, like, snapped her back to consciousness. Brandi, I already can't even handle this.

Nothing more can happen to this woman. Nothing more can happen to this woman. She jumped up off the couch just in time to find a woman she didn't know walking through her front door. In true Brandy style, Stephanie asked the woman if there was something she needed. Oh, hello. Welcome to my home. Can I help you with something? Would you like a Rice Krispie treat with raisins in it? The woman explained that her car had broken down and she just, I don't know, decided to walk in her fucking house.

Oh, my God. And she asked if she could use the phone. Stephanie handed the woman her phone and then the woman asked another favor. Could she please use the bathroom? Stephanie just felt kind of weird at this point. This woman was already in her house. She already had her phone. And so she just like pointed in the direction of the bathroom.

And then she just stood there waiting for the woman to come out. Only when the woman came out of the bathroom, she wasn't holding the phone anymore. She was holding a large knife in one hand. Oh, shit. And a gun in the other. Oh. The woman moved towards Stephanie and said, I'm here for your baby girl. Oh.

The woman then lunged at Stephanie with the knife and before she could even process what was going on, Stephanie, a woman who had just given birth through C-section seven days ago, Oh my God. Was in a fight for her life and for her baby's life. Yes. The stranger stabbed Stephanie in the chest and in the back. But Stephanie fought back. Her thumb was nearly severed as she tried to block the knife.

The woman eventually overpowered Stephanie and tied her to a kitchen chair. Then standing behind her, the woman held the knife to Stephanie's neck and slit her throat. Stephanie wasn't done fighting though. She could hear the woman making her way toward Abby in the other room. She fought to free her hands from the ties. Stephanie managed to free herself and grabbed a knife from the kitchen counter. What? Yeah. Yes.

But suddenly, the stranger was behind her. Oh, God. Her hands were around her throat. She struggled to breathe. Then everything went dark. An hour later, Stephanie came to. She was in the bathtub. Connor was crying next to her.

Oh, my God. He was covered in blood. Stephanie checked him for injuries, but it was clear that the blood was hers. He was unharmed. She pulled herself out of the tub and staggered out of the bathroom with no idea where her attacker might be. Does she have like a partner or a husband? She has a husband. He's at work. Okay, okay. Oh, God. Oh, God. Stephanie searched the home for Abby. She was gone. Oh, my God. Stephanie grabbed Connor and fled the home. The Woods home was located in rural Lowndale, Missouri, which is

located about an hour southwest of St. Louis. The nearest neighbor was more than 300 yards away. And Stephanie ran there, clutching her one-year-old son with her throat slit, stab wounds to her chest and back, and a C-section incision. Oh, my God. When she arrived at the neighbor's house, she banged on the door and begged her to call 911. Someone stole my baby, she cried. The woman called 911 and relayed Stephanie's claims to the dispatcher. I'm sorry. I'm going crazy now.

Were the phone lines cut at Stephanie's claims to the dispatcher. I'm sorry. I'm going crazy now. Were the phone lines cut at Stephanie's house? You know, I don't know if she left because she didn't know where the woman was or if she thought she had handed the cordless phone to the woman. So who knows if the woman took it with her. Oh, yeah. And in 06, maybe not everyone had their phone on them at all times. It wasn't always charged. OK.

Yeah. So, yeah. So she decided like the best plan of action was just to get the fuck out of the house yeah i understand that yeah yeah so she runs to the neighbor's house she's like somebody stole my baby so the woman called 9-1-1 and relayed stephanie's claims to the dispatcher before long paramedics arrived to care for stephanie and she had lost a lot of blood so much in fact that they didn't feel confident that she would survive the lengthy drive to the nearest hospital well no so they brought in a, that they didn't feel confident that she would survive the lengthy drive to the nearest hospital. Well, no.

So they brought in a helicopter and life flighted her. As she was being cared for, she told them what she remembered of the attack. It had all happened so fast. And the woman had been behind her for so much of it. The description she gave was vague. behind her for so much of it. The description she gave was vague. She described her attacker as a heavyset white woman with long dark hair who'd been wearing a baseball hat. She guessed her age was somewhere between 30 and 40, but that was really all she knew. She hadn't seen a car, and despite the fact that this was a very small town, she didn't recognize the woman.

the fact that this was a very small town, she didn't recognize the woman. Police went to work processing the scene back at the Woods home, and doctors went to work stitching up Stephanie's wounds. She'd been really lucky. The wounds were mostly superficial. She'd lost a lot of blood because the wound on her neck had nicked her carotid artery, but her wounds weren't life-threatening. She would make a full recovery. Pretty lucky, huh? What? Wait, what? Wait, did she make it up? Police were wondering that. They weren't sure it was all luck. The superficial nature of the wounds paired with the vague recollection of details and just the unbelievable nature of the alleged crime made the police a bit skeptical. They began to wonder if maybe Stephanie had done something to baby Abby and then orchestrated this whole attack story as an attempt to cover it up. Shit. Is this one of those stories where they think somebody is full of shit, but they're really not full of shit?

I don't know. Is it? And I'm afraid it is. I hate these stories. It seems that the police weren't willing to go completely balls out on this theory, though. Thank you, Brandi. Because they did go ahead and issue an Amber Alert for seven-day-old Abby Woods. A picture of her was circulated and a composite

sketch was made based on Stephanie's description of her attacker. But without a vehicle description or a license plate number, there wasn't much hope that the Amber Alert would actually be successful. Plus, Abby was a newborn. Yeah, all newborns look the same. They all look pretty much the same. Abby had one distinguishing feature that was mentioned in the Amber Alert, though. She was born with a strawberry birthmark on her forehead. Oh. Yeah. Okay.

So that is something. Yeah. Yeah. In the meantime, detectives sat down with Stephanie and her husband, James Woods. And they began to allude to their suspicions that maybe everything wasn't as it seemed. Stephanie was now a mother of two young children and she was still very young herself. She was only 21. Yeah, yeah. Maybe she was feeling overwhelmed or maybe she was dealing with postpartum depression or maybe there'd been some kind of accident. But Stephanie was adamant.

She hadn't made this up and she certainly hadn't done anything to harm baby Abby. James was adamant, too. The couple was happy. They were doing well. They felt nothing but love and joy for Connor and Abby. He told police that he hadn and joy for Connor and Abby. He told police that he hadn't done anything to harm Abby. And that he had no reason to believe that Stephanie was being anything but 100% truthful.

Because of Stephanie's injuries, she was confined to a hospital bed. So giving her a polygraph wasn't an option. Well, and it's 2006. Come on, people. They asked James to take one. I know they always ask. It's just an excuse for them to ask questions. And he was like, yep, let's do it. Let's go do it right now.

Like, if this is going to clear us so that you guys can focus on looking for our baby, I'll do it. And so they did. They went and they gave him a polygraph and he passed with flying colors. Yeah. And so they did. They went and they gave him a polygraph and he passed with flying colors. Yeah. It seemed that at least to his knowledge, the story of the attack was true. Word of the missing newborn spread nationwide and the search intensified.

Stephanie's parents went on the news and gave an emotional plea to whoever had baby Abby. They said, please, just give her back. We have no issues with you. No questions asked. Just return her. Right. And then they asked their, you know, the people in the community to help them with the search. Just be aware of your surroundings.

Look around. Check babies. Like, I mean, don't just wander up to anybody's babies, but, you know, be vigilant. That's a weird way to's right i'm just touching babies left and right okay a ground search of the area surrounding the woods home did result in the recovery of a knife. But from the crime scene photos, it looks pretty clean, and the police couldn't say for sure that it was related in any way to the case. It just happened to be a knife they found on the ground. Days went by. And then, on the fourth day,

police made a disturbing discovery in the woods. Oh, no. Did they find the baby? Less than a mile from Stephanie's home, they found a pink onesie. There was blood on it. The detectives feared that this meant the worst for baby Abby. The lead detective called James and Stephanie Woods. He said he needed to speak to them in person. Stephanie said that when she got the call that the detective had news for them and wanted to give it to them in person, she knew it was bad.

Yeah. She and her husband sat down with the detective that day. And just as he was about to deliver the news to them about the onesie and tell them that they now believed Abby would not be found alive, the detective received an urgent phone call. Abby Woods had been found. And she was alive. No. Yeah. Like, he's literally about to tell them, we're pretty sure we're not going to find her alive.

We have found this evidence that is terrible. Well, a lot of times when a stranger comes and takes your kid, your child doesn't survive. Just a few miles down the road, a woman had grown suspicious about her sister-in-law's new baby. Oh, boy. And it turned out that her suspicions were correct. It had all started in the spring of 2006 when Shannon Torres announced to her family that she was pregnant. It was a dream come true.

Shannon and her husband had been trying to conceive for years after the devastating loss they'd suffered six years earlier. Their baby had been stillborn. But finally, at 36 years old, Shannon had become pregnant again and she was over the moon. Her sister was pregnant too. In fact, their due dates were the exact same day. Well, now come on. were the exact same day.

Well, now, come on. So they grew very close in sharing their milestones from their pregnancies, comparing notes from their doctor's visits, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Fast forward to September. Shannon's husband, Rodney,

came home from work to find that while he was gone, his wife had given birth to their baby girl. At home. Alone. everything was totally fine though christine i'm sorry shannon had simply been feeding the animals in the barn that morning when she felt what she thought were false labor pains but by the time she got back to the house it turns out that they were very real labor pains and it was way too late to make it to the hospital or call anyone.

So she just had that baby right there at home all by herself. And she hadn't even bothered to call her husband and tell him the good news. Not even after the fact. No big deal. Well, you know, you're busy after you have a baby. That day was September. Can't even tell the dad. That day was September 15th, 2006.

Okay. In the following days, Shannon and her husband showed off their new baby girl, Millie Mae, to all of their family and friends. Yeah. Wow. Come on. You don't think it's cute? No, I don't think it's cute. No one thinks that's cute.

You think it's kind of cute? I think you don't deserve it's cute. No one thinks that's cute. I think it's kind of cute. I think you don't deserve to have a kid if you're going to name it Millie Mae. Okay, now, tell me more about this hubs. I mean, the hubs. I don't know a lot about the hubs. It's a little dim upstairs. I mean, come on. Okay, let's pause for a minute.

Yeah. You fucking come home from work. Mm-hmm. And your wife says, here's your baby. I gave birth today. Everything's fine. No big deal. What do you do?

Well, I would think that was pretty freaking weird. Yes. Right? Yes. And I mean, the thing is, like, I assume she didn't look pregnant either. We'll get into that a little bit. Okay. There's varying accounts.

All right. Just a little Chipotle Okay. There's varying accounts. All right. Just a little Chipotle baby. So they start showing off Millie Mae to all of their family members. And Rodney made home videos of his wife snuggling the baby and singing to the baby. And it was just a joyous time. But not everyone thought it was just like a super happy joyous time well there are haters everywhere some people namely shannon's sister-in-law dorothy was like um yeah excuse me yeah you fucking what you delivered a baby at home and you haven't seen a fucking doctor and you haven't had the baby checked out

by a doctor you think we should get on that? Well the thing is like people do home births all the time but there's like a midwife present or yeah and if it sounds like this woman had been saying oh yeah let's compare

notes from my doctor's visit and your doctor's visit that type of person isn't going to all of a sudden oh you know what Sounds like this woman had been saying, oh, yeah, let's compare notes from my doctor's visit and your doctor's visit. That type of person isn't going to all of a sudden, oh, you know what? I'm calling an audible. Yeah. That's a sports reference for everybody. And I'm just going to sit at home by myself. By myself. And give birth.

And then not even call my husband after it and, like, report, hey, you might want to scoot out of work a couple minutes early. I just had your baby. No. But I don't know. I don't know. It seems that Dorothy was the only one initially who was like, excuse me? What's going on here? Everyone needs a Dorothy in their life.

Right. I mean, that's the problem is not enough of us have a Dorothy. There's not enough Dorothys. So Dorothy went on like this for a couple of days, telling Shannon that she at least needed to go get herself checked out. Right. And Shannon would kind of brush her off and say that they were fine. But finally, on Tuesday the 19th, Shannon called Dorothy and asked her if she would come take her to the hospital to be checked out. And Dorothy was like, fuck yes.

I'm on my way. I'm already there. And so she did. She came and picked up Shannon and Millie and got them in her car. But as soon as Dorothy saw Millie, I believe this was the first time that she'd seen her in person, she knew something was up. It looked to Dorothy like Millie had makeup on her forehead. Oh, my God. She tried to cover up that birthmark.

Oh, my God. Mm-hmm. Dorothy knew that there was a search going on nearby for a missing baby. She'd seen the Amber Alert and she knew the missing baby had a strawberry birthmark on her forehead. So when Dorothy and Shannon got to the hospital, Shannon went in and left Dorothy in the car. Oh, my God. With Millie. Okay, is Shannon the biggest idiot in the world?

Why not just tell dorothy oh yeah i went and got checked out today everything's great right maybe i don't know okay i don't know but she's like i'm just gonna go get it checked out like i mean it was all a ruse right the whole time like so she's like i'm gonna go and get checked out you just hang out with millie and i'll come out when i'm good why am I expecting someone who goes and slits somebody's throat and takes their baby to do something logical? I'm sorry. Yeah. So Dorothy's sitting in the car with Millie and she's like

fuck, fuck, fuck. I've got a kidnapped baby. I'm sitting here with a kidnapped baby. And so she calls Rodney and is like yeah, I have some suspicions about Millie. Like, buddy, come on.

Yeah. And she's like, I just picked up Millie. I've taken Shannon to the hospital. She's inside right now. I think that she's covering something up. I think this may be the baby from the Amber Alert. Yeah. And so he's like, well, wipe the makeup off.

Wipe it off. See what's going on under there. Oh, my God. And so he's like, well, wipe the makeup off. Wipe it off. See what's going on under there. Oh, my God. And so she does. And sure enough, there was the strawberry birthmark. So when Shannon returned to the car, Dorothy confronted her. Wait, she didn't just call 911? No!

I don't know if she, like, was alarmed by the situation or thought that she might be in danger or then the baby would be in danger. Yeah, okay, true, all around. What she did next, I don't know. I'm concerned. And I don't know that this is the proper steps, but just spoiler alert, it all works out okay. Okay, okay. So she confronts her about the baby. Right.

And at first, Shannon was like, what are you talking about? Uh-huh. This is my baby. This is Millie. I gave birth to her four days ago. Like, I think I would know if this wasn't my baby. Mm-hmm. And she was like, okay, all right.

And then Dorothy's like, well, I hate to be a bugaboo here, but I noticed that she had a little bit of makeup on her forehead. Not sure what was going on there, so I kind of rubbed it away. It seems it might have been covering up this strawberry birthmark. And I don't know if you've, like, turned on the TV recently, but there's, like, a nationwide AMPA alert going on for a missing newborn. So Shannon told her, yeah, I saw that news good thing, but that's not what she said. That would have been a great way to go. I should have been helping Shannon along.

No, she went a little different direction. Okay, okay. She said, a little different direction. Okay, okay. She said, okay, okay. I did not give birth to this baby.

However, I also did not attack that woman from the news. I was just walking along one day. Oh, oh God. Okay. She gave me this baby?

I found this baby in a ditch along the side of the road. I found this baby in a ditch. Okay, this is a biblical time. I found this baby in a ditch on the side of the road. I found Moses by the river. Floating down the river. Yeah. And Dorothy's like, okay, cool.

Yeah. Excellent. Great. Great. great. And so she decided to take Shannon and the baby home

and she dropped them off. I think that she must have had some fear at this point about what Shannon was capable of. Yeah. Which is the reason that she didn't act in that moment. Right.

Well, and I mean, yeah. Who are we to say how we would act in this situation? This situation is coconuts. Yes, it is coconuts. But she must have thought, okay, she's not going to harm the baby if I can just get somewhere and call the police. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's what she did. She drops them off and then she immediately calls Shannon's husband and Shannon's mom and Shannon's sister. And she's like, OK, I'm pretty sure Millie is the missing baby. I confronted Shannon about it. She's being super fucking weird about it. Yeah. What do we do? And apparently the sister had already seen the news coverage and she thought the composite sketch looked like Shannon.

Yeah. And she was like, weird. That's the day that she gave birth at home. That's kind of weird. But nobody had like, maybe nobody had wanted to see it. Yeah. That's the thing. Nobody wants to be like, you know what I think is going on here.

And so then they went to work developing a plan to extract the baby from this situation in the safest way possible. No. They essentially planned to abduct her from Shannon. No, no. Oh, my God. I know. I think it's a weird way to go. Yeah, weird is an understatement.

Don't you just call the police? Yes. Yes. I mean, I'm not one of these huge fans of the cops right now, but I would say, like, just call the police, right? Yeah, you go to someone with some fucking training. Yeah. And you say, hey, here's what I think.

Yeah. No, instead, they put together, together like a SEAL Team 6 style. Of their own family. So this was the plan. This is the dumbest thing ever. Shannon's husband and his brother would go into the house under the guise that the brother was just here to see the baby. And he'd ask real nicely if he could hold the baby. Great.

Wonderful. And then as he was holding the baby, somebody else would swoop in, the sister perhaps, and distract Shannon and then they'd remove the baby from the house, they'd rush the baby to a car where Dorothy would be waiting for them

and then she'd zoom the baby off to the police. So they put the plan in action that very afternoon. This is so stupid. I'm trying to give these people all the benefits of the doubt. I know. Why didn't they just call the police? Exactly. Thank God it went okay.

Yeah. It could have gone so badly. No shit. So they put the plan in action. Rodney and his brother roll up to the house that afternoon and just Shannon's doing great. And she thinks nobody's on to her even though Dorothy's already confronted her. Right. And the brother's like, hey, can I hold little baby Millie?

And she's like, of course, of course. Yes. Get those baby snugs in. Oh, God. And so he does and he's holding the baby. And then the sister swoops in and distracts Shannon. And then out the door. I don't know.

A dance. Please tell me. The scarf dance. It's 06. What were we doing in 06? She did the cha-cha. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. One hop this time.

And she took it down real low. Well, yeah, I mean, that's the most distracting move in the whole song. Yeah. Hands on your knees. Hands on your knees. Yeah. So the brother was in the whole song. Yeah. Hands on your knees. Hands on your knees. Yeah. So the brother was also following the instructions. Yeah.

So he one hopped this time right out the door with the baby. You guys, if you could have seen the light that went on in Brandy's head when she realized she could make that joke. Brandy, that was magical. Thank you. So he gets that was magical. Thank you. So he gets the baby out of the house. To the left. Yes.

And there's Dorothy in the car waiting. They put the baby in the car and she zooms off to the police. Crisscross. And then Dorothy rendezvoused with the police and turned over baby Abby Woods.

And they were like, what the fuck? Oh, my God. Did you want to fill us in on this a little earlier? Like, I'm sorry. She walked them all the way through the plan and they were like, can you stop seeing the cha-cha slide, please? Hey, you know what? My house is on fire right now. I don't want to call the fire department.

Brandy, get a bucket. And a mop. Stop it. I said my house. You guys, Brandy's being gross. Ben Shapiro and I are horrified. Wasn't he the one who? Yeah, he's like, if a woman's vagina is wet...

Then that's a medical condition. There's a medical condition. That man is married. To the saddest woman on earth. Can you imagine? Amazingly, Baby Abby was physically unharmed. The Woods were reunited with their baby girl a short time later. How long had it been?

Four days. Wow. Yeah. That's a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When Stephanie was asked, like, how did you manage to, like, run from your house to the neighbor's house when your throat had been slit and you'd been stabbed?

And she was like, I'm a mom. Like, a part of me was taken away. I had to do anything I could. Yeah. To find her. Yeah, I think that's one of those situations where you're just on autopilot complete adrenaline yeah yeah she spent some time in the hospital like she required a lot of medical care she i just think it's ridiculous because they were like did she maybe do this to herself like yeah yeah yeah she has like her thumb was nearly severed, Kristen.

I don't know if you heard. Yeah, I understand. What are you laughing about? I love it. I don't know. There's something about the way you said, she spent time in the hospital. And I'm like, no shit, someone slit her throat. Oh, what a little bitch.

Had to go to the hospital. What a little bitch. If that was me, I wouldn't have to go to the hospital. I'd just stay home and give birth myself. Anyway. Sorry. The police then obviously moved in on Shannon Torres and took her into custody without innocence. Without innocence?

Or incident. Or any sense. She was charged with kidnapping and armed criminal action among a whole host of other charges. There were 11 in all. And she was held on $1 million bond. At her first court appearance, Shannon looked disheveled and disoriented and cried through most of the proceedings. Did she have the hairdo that we talked about in two weeks ago? Just curled on top. Yeah. No, her hair is long and dark. And it's literally like it's like

Violet's hair from The Incredibles. It's like all in her face. You can just see like a little tiny bit of her face peeking through. Okay. If you did that, wouldn't you be doing the same thing? Yeah. Yeah. So she like was sobbing through most of the court proceedings. And she entered a plea of not guilty on all charges.

For real? Mm-hmm. For real? Mm-hmm. Her husband, Rodney, filed for divorce immediately following her arrest and asked in the divorce filing that there be a condition where Shannon could never contact him again. Wow. Mm-hmm. He did not attend any of her court appearances.

Despite her initial denial of any involvement in the attack on Stephanie or the abduction of baby Abby. Wait, so she wasn't trying to say insanity. She was trying to say she literally had no. Oh, my. Mm hmm. As the prosecution moved toward a trial, the defense acknowledged that things didn't look great for them. No, they sure didn't. So they asked the prosecution for a deal. Would they consider an Alford plea?

As we've talked about on the show before, an Alford plea is where a defendant maintains their claims of innocence but acknowledges that the prosecution has enough evidence to convict them. It is technically a guilty plea. Yeah. Yep. So the prosecution reached out to the Woods family. Stephanie wasn't looking forward to reliving the worst thing that had ever happened to her. Right. But it was something she was willing to do to get justice. When the prosecutor explained to her how the deal would work, though. So the prosecutor was like, we will still seek the maximum penalty. We'll basically allow her to plead guilty, plead the Alford plea for two counts. We'll drop everything else. But then we will ask the judge to sentence her to the maximum penalty, which would be 30 years. And you will still be able to go and give your victim impact statement at the hearings.

You'll still be able to face her if you choose to do so. OK. And so Stephanie thought that over and she felt that avoiding the trial would maybe be the way to go. She said that made her feel better. She'd still get to kind of speak her piece, but she wouldn't have to relive every detail of what had happened. Sure. And so the family agreed to accept the Alford plea.

I don't know that I'd accept an Alford plea. I know. I don't know if I would either. I'd be like, you're straight up guilty. Yeah. It's okay if you take a plea deal, but you're straight up guilty. You're straight up guilty. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't feel great about it. Shannon Torres entered her Alford plea in May of 2008. And in September, everyone was back in court for sentencing. The prosecution made their

argument before judge would and asked for the maximum of 30 years. They said this would ensure that Abby would never have to spend any part of her childhood worrying about Shannon getting out of prison. Yeah. She would be well into adulthood by the time that happened. So she's going by Abby, not Millie Mae. She didn't want to keep that. Yes. Stephanie and James, as well as Stephanie's parents,

gave victim impact statements. And they talked about the hell that they had lived in. And that moment where they thought for sure the detective was sitting them down to tell them that their daughter had died. Yeah.

This was the first time that Stephanie was face-to-face with the woman who had attacked her. And she said something to the effect of like, I can't believe you could do that to me. Like woman to woman. How dare you? The defense asked the judge to be lenient on Shannon Torres, and they offered up the first kind of explanation for her actions that day.

They said that Shannon had delivered a stillborn baby that very morning. No. And then had suffered a bipolar postpartum episode of psychosis. Where's the evidence of that baby? There is none. Yeah. Mm-hmm. We'll get all. Okay. okay pause momentarily we'll get there

in just a second they said that she'd seen a sign in the front yard of the woods home welcoming their baby girl and in that psychotic state she had attacked stephanie and taken abby they called dr diane sanford to the stand to testify about psychological evaluations, medical reports, etc. And she said, my opinion is that the severe bipolar postpartum depression affected her conduct in this instance. Sanford went on to say that symptoms of bipolar postpartum depression usually emerge 24 hours after a woman gives birth. So not like 30 seconds later? Mm hmm. And she said in a in a written report to the court that she believed that Torres had given birth to a stillborn child at home on September 15th.

On cross examination, the prosecution was definitely going to able to contest the claim that she had given birth that morning there was no proof there was no medical evidence no remains were ever found yeah what did she say she did with i don't know i don't know the specifics of that there's a lot of speculation surrounding shannon's pregnancy. Her family believes and testified to the fact that she was pregnant at some point. And there's varying beliefs from

there. If she had a miscarriage. Some people believe that she made the pregnancy up altogether. Right. The prosecution's theory was that Shannon had miscarried at some point during her pregnancy and then just couldn't ever tell her family. Yeah. And then when she saw the sign in the woods yard that day, she saw an opportunity, an opportunity to have the baby she wanted so badly and to not have to tell her family that she'd suffered another pregnancy loss.

another pregnancy loss. Yeah. There's a couple of different people testified about seeing Shannon in various stages of pregnancy. Yeah. Like no one went to a doctor's appointment with her. Right. No one. Yeah.

So it's just it's hard to know if it was completely fabricated or if she had been pregnant at some point. Well, it wouldn't surprise me at all if she had years of terrible, you know, miscarriages and all that stuff. I mean, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. Not at all. Not at all. But yeah, as far as delivering a stillborn baby that very morning, I don't believe it.

No. No. After hearing from both sides, the judge sentenced Shannon to, do you have a guess? The prosecution was asking for like the minimum, which would be like 10 years. The prosecution wanted the minimum? I'm sorry. No, no, no. The defense was asking for the minimum.

The prosecution was asking for the maximum, which was 30. I think she got 15. She got 30 years. Oh, wow. Okay. I think she got 15. She got 30 years. Oh, wow.

Yeah. And she must serve 25 and a half of those before becoming eligible for parole. That's a lot harsher than I thought she would get. Yeah. Her family sobbed in court when the sentence was announced. Yeah. Following the hearing, Stephanie said it felt good to tell Shannon, kind of tell her off that day, tell her what she'd done to her and what she was carrying around with the rest of her life now because of what she'd done. She said, but that doesn't fix what she did.

And I still live with that every single day. As for the sentence, she said she was happy with it and felt that Shannon got what she deserved. Stephanie Woods never returned to the home where the attack occurred. And while she knows that her children were both young enough that they won't consciously remember the events of those days, she worries about what impact it will have on them. She said specifically for Connor, he watched his mom be attacked and then he was put in a bathtub with his mom for more than an hour. Yeah. He was only a year old, but who knows what kind of. Yeah, you never know. People think that, oh, the kid can't talk.

So therefore there's no memories being created. That's just not true. It's just not. It's just not. Shannon Torres will be 63 when she becomes eligible for parole. Wow. She spoke on an episode of Snapped that I watched about this case. And she said the whole event is a blur to her.

She has no recollection of attacking Stephanie or stealing the baby. But she remembers all of a sudden having the baby in her possession. And she said there were periods where she questioned whether the baby was hers. And that's the story of a kidnapping where, oh my gosh, nobody died and the baby was recovered. I was going to say, I would love to know how often a child survives. Something ends like that. No kidding. Because it seems like, and we just talked about this on the bonus episode, that it just seems like the kids are murdered by the kidnappers within the first 24 hours.

Yeah. Because usually if you're kidnapping someone, you're a terrible person. Exactly. One result of this case was kind of like a widespread safety thing about not putting signs welcoming your newborn in your yard. Hmm. It was a very popular thing for a while where people have a stork or something out in the yard. Yeah. You know, it's a girl or whatever. Yeah. And that was kind of a warning that was issued after this, like not to do that.

Oh, come on. Really? Yeah, really. Yeah. I think to me, and obviously, I mean, do whatever you want, but that kind of makes me think of like how one guy had a shoe bomb. And now we all take our shoes off at the airport. I just I think that's a really extreme reaction to something that is not likely to happen. Is not very common or likely to happen.

Yeah. No, I agree with that. And I think it's way cooler to announce your new human. And your neighbors know like, oh, maybe I should drop off some food at their door or something. Yeah, I always think it's really fun when I see that. I know! Maybe that's part of it. For me, you're like, I love those signs when somebody's like, happy birthday to Megan! She's 17!

I especially love them now, because it's like, okay, you can't do a fun party, but like, how exciting that now we can, you know, wave to the camera as we go by. I didn't realize how lame that sounded until I started talking. I love waving at people's

signs as I drive by. Good for Megan. She's 17. Tell us about a bad teacher. Bad, bad, real bad. Are you ready for this? I don't think you're ready for this. No. I don't think you're ready for this. No. I don't think you're ready for this, Jelly.

Yeah. So the bonus episode, I told you, hey, just so you know, I hate my case. This week, I'm telling you, hey, just so you know, I hate this case. Good. Let's get started. Oh, great. First of all, shout outs to an episode of 2020. Not telling you the name of the episode.

Give something away. And just a metric shit ton of reporting from the Tennessean. All right. I believe that's located in Tennessee. You're a brilliant woman. And a hell of a bowler. Thank you. It was the fall of 2016, and Elizabeth Thomas was at a particularly vulnerable time in her life. She was 15, and she and all of her siblings had been homeschooled their whole lives.

Their mom, Kimberly, had done the homeschooling, and their dad, Anthony, had been away a lot because he worked, quote, around the clock as an exterminator. Around the clock? Okay. I, yeah, I'm going to, I don't know. I didn't even know an around the clock exterminator was an option. Okay. Now, here's the thing. I have to stop here, and this is weird. This is going to seem really weird.

You know how much I love the show, 90 Day Fiance. I do. Okay. So one of the guys on there is an exterminator. And he wakes up at like 4.30 in the morning to go exterminating. And I don't know if he's just got a crazy commute. He might because he lives in a rural area but part of me also wondered if you're an exterminator do companies want you to come exterminate before anybody's around we always

get the salon exterminated before we're open right right yeah because we don't want well we don't want that happening while people are there sure sure and you want it to be sneaky sneaky so people don't get freaky freakied out out. Well, wouldn't you? I mean, I think it's nice that we're, you know, taking the steps to ensure that their experience is bug free. Of course. Yeah. And we don't want to know about it. Yeah.

So, yeah, initially, around the clock as an exterminator, I do wonder if maybe. Well, and then I also think there's probably something about safety. Like you don't want to be exterminating while, like, for office buildings and stuff like that. That makes sense to me. Okay. Okay, but around the clock. Yeah, no, see, that doesn't make sense. Yeah.

That doesn't. Like, is there a circumstance where I wake up in the middle of the night and find out that I have some kind of infestation that I was not aware of before then? Will an exterminator come out at that time? I mean, I'm sure if you pay enough, somebody will come out and do anything. Okay. Like a lap dance? I'm sorry. I was thinking of gross things.

So, you know, Anthony's out exterminating all the live long day, and Kimberly's in charge of the homeschooling. So Elizabeth and her four siblings had been isolated. And so when their mom physically and emotionally abused them, they didn't have an advocate. This abuse went on for years until finally the kids made the incredibly brave decision to call Child Protective Services themselves on their own mother. Wow. I know. CPS came to investigate, and they determined that the situation was so bad that the mother needed to be removed from the home.

And she was subsequently charged with multiple counts of child abuse. I've never heard of the parent being removed from the home. Really? Yeah, you always hear about them removing the children from the home. I guess they thought maybe the dad could. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so this is where I want to pause a little bit here about this dad.

In the 2020- I thought you were going to like tell me a secret. I did have my hand up. Like, don't let the listeners hear. In the episode, the interviewer started to ask him about the abuse. And he was like, oh, I'm just never home. So I didn't know what was going on. He got up and left.

What? Okay. That's shady as fuck. Yeah. Like got emotional. Now got emotional. I don't care. I'm kind of's shady as fuck. Yeah, like got emotional. Now, got emotional. Yes, I don't care. I'm kind of of the same camp. Yeah. I'm kind of

like, hmm. Now, it could just be this is all too tough, can't handle it, but it could also be, I know, I know, wait for it, wait for it, wait for it. It could also... What do I look like?

Aaron Burr? Sir. I'm thinking it could also be, are you just the type of guy when things get uncomfortable, you just leave? That could be. That's actually a common personality type. Yeah. And so maybe that's how you don't see what's going on in your own house is when things

get weird, you just leave. Yeah. Brandy, I'm sorry, I was pointing at you. Like, I don't do that. So it was obviously a good thing to have the mom removed from the home, but that meant a lot of changes for the kids. And for 15-year-old Elizabeth, it meant that for the first time in her life, she'd be going to a traditional school. So she enrolled in Cullioca High School and it was rough from the jump. Everything was so new and she was still dealing with the trauma of having been abused. And like right away when

she started at her new school, she said the first thing that happened was some boys called her ugly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking high school. Yeah. And middle school. Fucking school.

It was stupid and immature, but of course it still really hurt her feelings. Of course it did. And she tried to make new friends at her new school, but that was kind of tough because by that point, a lot of the cliques were already set. Yeah, and she was like the weird new homeschool girl. Right, right. Yes. So she felt really alone in this totally new school.

Not saying like, yes, of course she was weird. No. I'm just saying that's – That's how people are going to view you. Yes. Yeah. So she's living in her small town in Tennessee where there's a population of like 5,000 people. And, you know, it's kind of cliquish.

She doesn't know what to do. But eventually, in the midst of all this change and turmoil, she found someone she could trust. Oh, no. It was her health teacher. Oh, no. Tad Cummins. Ew, that's the worst teacher. It is, isn't it? That is the worst teacher. It is, isn't it?

That is the worst teacher. Who did you have for health? I had this old male gym teacher. He was the weights teacher. I can't even remember his name, but he was super creepy. I can't remember his name. And he fast-forwarded through the part on the health video where they talked about boners because he couldn't handle it. Jealousy. on the health video where they talked about boners because he couldn't handle it. There was like an infrared scene

where they like show like a boner happening. It was like, you know, like a sketch or whatever. And then they showed like the heat extending through the member. Oh my God.

You should see her jazz hands while she's doing this. Anyway, he was like, oh, fast forward. Was it down in the basement? Yeah. I had that same guy. What the hell was his name?

I don't know. I had him for Waits senior year, too. I can't remember his name. He, yeah, he would always, here's what pissed me off. He, when it came to, like, the, you know,, we would always like, you were supposed to read. And then when you were supposed to watch a video and take notes, like he had a formula because he was a terrible teacher. He couldn't go off the book. So he, when we, when it came to the sex stuff, see it's funny, mine is a sex thing too.

We were quizzed on all the things that could happen to the male reproductive system. But we were not quizzed about the stuff that could happen to women. He wasn't the least bit concerned about that, Kristen. I was so mad. Always been a feminist. He also said that toxic shock syndrome was something that doesn't happen anymore. That's not accurate. No, I mean, it's not talked about as much.

No. Yeah, it still can happen. Yeah, so anyway, in in conclusion that guy was a guy sucked and so do all health teachers apparently right okay yeah so this is a guy okay and his name is ted cummins. I know. Just a Tad. Right. Not good. It's not good. Tad was a super popular teacher. Of course he was. He was the cool teacher.

He was everyone's mentor, everyone's friend. He made these jokes, and man, everyone thought he was so cool. Hmm. Do you ever stop and think back on the teachers who we thought were cool in high school? Yeah. Do you have revised opinions now? Yeah. I do too. Yeah, I do.

Who are you thinking of? So there's two. And we'll bleep. We'll bleep. Yeah. Two teachers shared a trailer. That's exactly what I'm thinking of. That's exactly.

Okay. Okay. So our school was overpopulated, so they brought in these trailers that the teachers, and like they were split into two classrooms. I love that you're thinking of the ****. Yeah, the ****. Mm-hmm. Yep. They shared a trailer. They pranked each other.

I think they were just like reliving their high school glory days, thinking they were the cool guys, right? They absolutely were. Yeah! The thing I remember that I thought was so funny in high school, and I look back now and I think, what a dick, what they would do. I don't know if you remember this. They used to, so, you know, in passing periods, teachers would call the front office and one

of the front office ladies would, you know, say, okay, come over the intercom. So and so go to this classroom. So and so go to this classroom. You know, it's kind of like not an emergency situation thing, but it was, you know, not done super often. Those two guys started a thing where they would call up the front office ladies and they would say, like, Lance Bass to my office or like they would. Yeah, I remember that. I remember one day they did Famous Dictators.

Another day they did Pop Stars. Yeah. And, you know, everyone's laughing because, you know, it seems kind of funny. And, of course, eventually the front office ladies found out and they felt really stupid. Yeah. As you would.huh. And they felt really stupid. Yeah. As you would. Yeah. And they got mad.

Mm-hmm. And I remember *** complaining to us that now he was facing ramifications. Yeah. Because the office ladies were mad at him. And as an adult, I remember that. What a douchey thing to do. Yes. At the time, I was like, oh, so hilarious.

Oh, those front office ladies. office ladies oh god can't take a joke now as an adult i'm like what a dick yeah so he was the he was a sports coach and now i can't remember i think he was a baseball well he was also like a freshman football coach i think oh oh yeah he coached my brother oh okay yeah dan and I remember Dan telling me a story where he referred to his wife as fire crotch because she was a redhead. Oh! And I was like, that's a fucking teacher? Oh, okay. I've got another story.

Guys, I'm sorry. For anyone else, this is not going to be interesting at all. I remember. Okay. So this guy, he had a reputation as being just the coolest, the funniest, the best. You wanted to be in this guy's class. It was like, well, he was performing for us. Yeah.

He was performing at all times. Absolutely. Okay. So, you know, you kind of never thought of, like, him having another side to him. Well, okay, one day we took a quiz. And it was, you know, just we were in world history. So it was some kind of quiz. And like one of the questions was like, what was the name of the book that Hitler wrote?

And, you know, the answer is Mein Kampf. Okay. So we're doing the thing where like you've passed your paper to somebody else to grade and he's reading the answers out loud. So he says Mein Kampf and someone raises their hand and they said well you know my the my person wrote my struggle which is the English translation and the teacher was like no no and so the person who wrote that started to talk back and was like well but it means that's that's just the english translation like i obviously know the title of the book yeah he flipped out and i mean it was in retrospect it's kind of funny because he started freaking out and yelling about hitler but he was like no no it's mine cup it's only mine cup

oh my goodness and i can still picture it was D*** who had said my struggle. And, man, he looked terrified. No, no. Anyway, maybe we'll cut that because that's kind of a weird story. I like it. So, anyway, yeah, sometimes years later you look back on the teachers you thought were cool and you go, holy shit, not so much. Yeah. Anyway. later you look back on the teachers you thought were cool and you go holy shit not so much yeah anyway do you remember the teacher our i want to say it was our sophomore year that got fired for sleeping with students the gym teacher okay keep going keep going so the

students that he slept with he slept with with two students, I believe. Well, sexually assaulted, right? They were not minors. They were over 18, so there were no charges. They just fired him. Gross. Yes, they were senior girls. Ew. Yeah, it's still disgusting.

Well, yeah. Yeah, but because they were not minors, they were 18, he hadn't technically done anything illegal. Wow. And so he was just fired. What was his name? We should look him up. I know. Obviously, Patty Bleep that tape.

This is the bleeped episode. Do you remember, this is another one, like this. No, doing this story brought up all these. Yeah. Do you remember the teacher who was fired because some girl stuck her tongue out at some point and he said, no, thanks. I prefer to use toilet paper. No. Yeah. He got fired and everyone bullied her.

Oh, wow. Yeah. What teacher was that? I don't remember. I don't remember. Wow. It was one, I think Casey. Casey will remember.

Yeah, I bet she will. Because I think it was one of her teachers. Okay. Because you and I got into an argument about this. We did? Yeah, we did. We did. I have no recollection of this.

I know you don't. I can tell you don't. Yeah, I thought it was really gross and weird. And you thought it sounded made up. Oh. Interesting. You were being an asshole. I was being an asshole.

So, yeah, that's, oh. Oh, my gosh. Okay. All right. In case you all couldn't tell, you're on a magic carpet ride right now of our memories of high school. Okay, so Tad, you know, everyone thinks he's super cool. But let me tell you, he was the type of guy who takes a lot of selfies in the car with his sunglasses on. No, he thinks he's cool.

I know, they all think they're cool when they do that, but... I wrote the script, which is just a fact that I'm throwing out there without any judgment at all. I forgot to withhold judgment. Above all, you should know that Mr. Cummins

was 50 and just an upstanding guy, just a great guy. I don't believe it. He'd gotten married to his high school sweetheart, Jill, the year they both graduated from high school. And they had two adult daughters and a few grandkids. And at this point, he just spent a ton of time in church. He went on missions trips with his church, and sang in the church choir and he taught Sunday school. And he was super helpful to Elizabeth as she made this transition from being homeschooled in an abusive home to going into public school.

He sought her out right away and let her know that he cared. Okay, Brandy. He even gave her a gift. A Bible. Oh, no. Yeah, I love it when creepy predators work God into the mix. Yeah. That's great.

That's not going to do terrible psychological damage. Spiritual abuse. Yeah. That's what the... Okay, I had forgotten the term, then it came to me. Elizabeth was so grateful to have someone looking out for her, someone who cared for her. In fact, she felt so comfortable around him that she opened up to him. She told him about the abuse she'd experienced at home.

And Mr. Cummins was so thoughtful that he invited her to church. He invited her because the preacher's wife was going to talk about abuse and ways to get past it. So Tad said to Elizabeth, hey, why don't you come along with me to church? So Tad and his wife Jill and Elizabeth went to church together. If you were to ask good old Tad about it, he'd say they had a father-daughter relationship. I hate it. Oh, you don't like father-daughters?

No, he's grooming her. Mm-hmm. His wife Jill began to refer to Elizabeth as their third daughter. There was no two ways about it. Tad was looking out for a vulnerable 15-year-old. Hmm. For example, one day she was in the cafeteria with her friends, and they asked her, are you hungry?

And she said something like, I must not have a soul. I'm not hungry, which is kind of a weird thing to say. But, you know, something like, anyway, 15-year-old, you know, whatever. I must not have a soul. I'm not hungry, which is kind of a weird thing to say. But, you know, something like, anyway, 15-year-olds, you know, whatever. Well, Tad overheard this. So he walked over to her and he pointed to her and he said, my soul sees your soul. Ew. Ew.

Yeah. Ew. Yeah. Yeah. Gross. Stop. Go away. Yeah. Ew. Yeah. Yeah. Gross. Stop. Go away. Yeah.

No, thank you. So yeah, he was just a real chill guy. Mm-mm. Ask anybody. Except don't ask anybody. Because on 2020, they talked to this guy named Chandler Anderson, who used to work with Tad when Tad was a respiratory therapist at the local hospital. And Chandler was basically like, that dude was a dick. He said Tad had a temper and a real problem with authority and could not handle the word no.

Chandler theorized that Tad took the pay cut to become a teacher, not because he, like, was called to teach. Tad just wanted to be in charge. Yeah. He wanted a job where very few people would tell him what to do. But I'm sure Chandler was full of shit because Tad taught Sunday school, and we all know they don't let assholes teach Sunday school. Yeah, that's not accurate. I love when they get somebody who's like, nope, I knew this guy.

I knew he was full of shit. Because you know people knew. Yes. Of course people knew. So a few months passed. And, of course, Elizabeth didn't see the flaws in Mr. Cummins because, you know, she's this 15-year-old who's dealing with all this trauma. And instead, the more time she spent with him, the more he was able to convince her that he cared for her. He was looking out for her. And really, he was the only person on earth who really cared about her. All of this love, quotation marks, and attention

came at just the right time. Elizabeth was still reeling from the abuse she'd suffered at home and still trying to adjust to high school. And she wanted to get better. She wanted to work through all the shit she'd been through. And she decided that what she really needed was to see a therapist. She thought maybe she might even need to get on some antidepressants, you know, just something to help her. So she went to Tad and told him about this plan and how she was thinking about seeing a therapist. She was interested in medication. And he told her, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't want to do that.

Oh, no, no, no. Medication, that'll just change the way you are. And you're great just the way you are. Because a therapist would have spotted what was going on the second she sat down in their office. Absolutely. Yeah. And there's no shame in medication. No, none at all.

Mr. Cummins had a better idea. Why go to a therapist... When you could come to me! That's right! Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! Oh, no! Why go to a therapist? When you could come to me. That's right. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. She could get all the free therapy she needed from a big fucking creep. So they spent more time together. And during this time, Tad told Elizabeth a little bit about himself.

As it turned out, he'd had a fascinating life, Brandy. you're not gonna believe this but he was a former cia agent no he wasn't yes and guess what he'd also been an fbi agent no he hadn't yes he had He had, and now he was at Coleoca High School teaching health. He'd saved lives, Brandy. Innocent lives. No, he hadn't. You ungrateful slut. And also, oh boy, he did not like to brag about this, but he was the one who killed Osama bin Laden. He didn't really say that.

He did. No, he did. He said that. He was on SEAL Team 6. Sounds like he was the whole team. That's two SEAL Team 6 references in this episode, by the way. Brandy. Brandy. Thank you for your service, kid.

No. No. He's full of shit. And I know it's tacky to brag about money. He's rich. Phil, he's still getting rich. He doesn't have to work. He chooses to work because he's here to mold the young minds.

Brandy, it's like you were in the room. He was a millionaire. Okay. He was a millionaire. Okay. So Elizabeth says she didn't really believe everything he told her, but she still had this intense bond with him, and she still thought of him as a good guy and a protector. He was an adult who was looking out for her, and she wasn't in a position to turn that kind of thing down.

But after a while, talking at school wasn't enough. Soon they connected over Instagram, and they sent each other messages. And, of course, Tad was super creepy, and he began sexting her. You guys should see Brandy's face. I hate it. He sent her these stupid fucking memes um that are not appropriate for anyone to send at any age under any circumstances for example i believe it was like a maroon square with just text on it and it And it said, you're all my heart ever talks about. Gross. I know.

Then there was one of, it's like an image of a couple, and they're sitting atop a hill with a bright city beneath them, bright lights. You're only seeing the outline of the couple. And there's text over the image, and it read, it was love at first sight, at last sight, at ever and ever sight. What does that even fucking mean? It means nothing. It's weird. It's stop.

Stop. You know what? Business idea. You create a really creepy meme. Yeah. And then you just send the police to whoever shares it. That could be like the Evolve to a predator yeah yeah so things were bad he was a sexual predator and he'd found a very vulnerable girl yeah at one by accident oh no he spotted her a mile away well you know with his cia training

i'm sure that helped yeah i'm sure one point, they were alone together in his classroom, and he kissed her. Oh, good. And Elizabeth was embarrassed. She said she was scared of what would happen if people found out. And from there, it, of course, escalated. Of course it did. He began doing sexual stuff with her in the closet of his classroom. She said it got to the point that he would just go over to his closet, open it up, and look at her.

Yeah. Ew. And she knew that if she didn't comply, he'd get angry. And he was really fucking scary when he was angry. I'm sure that he was. I mean, freaking Chandler. He used to be a Navy SEAL. Oh, God. Osama bin Laden was the last man who said no to him and look what happened by january of 2017 a fellow student saw something suspicious

she saw tad kiss elizabeth And the student was like, whoa. Yeah, super disturbed. And this student immediately told school administrators what she saw. I know, right? Well, wait till they drop the ball here. The school administrators investigated the issue because they were all highly trained detectives. See, this is another, it's a theme

in this episode. Call the fucking police. I am so sick of this thing of like, oh, yeah, we're a school. We are totally equipped to handle...

To deal with any kind of situation that should come our way. Yep, we're Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen. Yeah. Any crime by dinner time. Murder,

a little pot smoking, rape. Yeah, that's right. We got us all. Give me a break,sen. Yeah. Crime by dinner time. Murder. A little pot smoking. Yeah. Rape. Yeah. That's right. We got us all. Give me a break, right? Yeah.

I hate that schools think they can handle this. They cannot. Yeah. Well, they don't think they can. They want to sweep it under the rug. Yeah. But anyway. Yeah.

Hmm. The less attention, the better. So, you know, the school administrators went to Elizabeth and they asked her if anything inappropriate was happening between her and Mr. Cummins. And she, of course, denied it, which is extraordinarily common for a young victim of sexual abuse. By that point, Tad had filled Elizabeth's head with all kinds of bullshit. She told them, no, they hadn't kissed. And they asked Tad if he'd kissed Elizabeth, and he was just, oh, he was horrified

that someone would make that kind of accusation. There'd clearly been some sort of mistake. Had there? Yes. And don't worry, Brandy, the school took this super seriously. And by super seriously, I mean they took a whole week to call the police. Wow. Great. In the meantime, Tad kept going about his business.

During that time, Elizabeth says she went on a field trip, during which Tad was the only chaperone. Oh my gosh! which Tad was the only chaperone. Oh, my gosh. She says that on that trip, he propositioned her for sex. And she said no. At some point after this, the school was like, hey, hey, here's a great plan. How about the two of you stop communicating?

Okay, I'm sorry. How does that? So the school has been made aware that someone saw something inappropriate, yet they still allow him to be the only chaperone on a field trip that she is sent on? Apparently. That is a big problem. Yeah, so I wouldn't necessarily expect anyone on earth to know that when you ask a child if they're being sexually abused, like a lot of times a child will cover up for their abuser because they've been told, you know, all types of scary things. They're afraid to tell the truth. Or they might just be plain embarrassed about what like there.

There's a lot of reasons. A lot of reasons. Yes. But these are school administrators they should know that that can happen yes they needed to take this much more seriously and they should also have been like you know what maybe we call the cops on this because this is too big a risk yeah but yeah elizabeth says that she went on a field trip and he was the only chaperone gosh so the school's brilliant plan is hey how about the two of you just stop communicating okay cool

yeah and when the police finally caught wind of the allegation they interviewed tad about this kiss and he told them no no no no i'm a father figure to her i see her as a close and best friend. What? What? Yes. What? You're 50. She's 15. She's my best friend. She's your close and best friend. That alone should be like, you're done. That's like a big fucking alarm going off. Yes.

That was my alarm sound. That was beautiful. Thank you. Of course I didn't kiss her. I grabbed her hands once to calm her down. Has there been some kind of confusion? Oh, they thought that I was kissing her. What I was really doing was holding her hand. Yes, yes.

Yeah, totally appropriate. Oopsies. I only have eyes for Jesus. And my wife. Oh, my God. His Twitter profile is still up. Let me see if I can find it. You ready for his description of himself?

I am. Jesus freak slash child of the king. I think he means Elvis. Husband, father, grandfather, high school teacher. Not anymore. Clinician, drummer, audio tech jeep owner singer slash songwriter warrior slash poet oh no yeah killer of osama bin laden yeah he's so modest about that i held osama bin lad Laden's dead body.

Give me a break. But at some point, the school discovered that Tad had Elizabeth in his classroom again, and so they suspended him. And at that point, Tad told his wife, Jill, oh, it's all a big mix-up. Classic misunderstanding. You know, the type of mix-up where someone thinks they've seen a 50-year-old man kissing a 15-year-old girl. Yeah, that happens all the time. Gosh, I'm disturbed all the time. I'm always thinking I'm seeing that, and really they're just holding hands.

Holding hands in a completely platonic way. Jill believed him. She did? She had no reason not to, according to her. He told her he'd been falsely accused, and she felt sorry for her husband. What you thinking, Brandi? You look like a balloon that's about to blow away. Yeah, I don't like it.

Yeah, that's the easy response. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's the easy response. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you don't want to believe that. No.

Yeah. But she wasn't the only person who felt sorry for her husband. At that point, the news was all over school. Tad Cummins, this super popular teacher who all the kids love, had his life ruined by Elizabeth Thomas. Okay. Because, yeah, I mean, we were just talking, like, this stuff gets out. Yeah. Yeah.

And people are not kind. Mm-mm. They don't see the victims for who they are. Victims. Yeah, he's not a victim. No, I'm talking about, like they they don't see the victim for who oh okay okay i wondered why you were calling tad a victim no oh my god no he's very alarmed christian no i'm saying like teenagers generally speaking well and even some adults because some

adults are fucking idiots but like you don't see things for how they are. Elizabeth said the bullying and teasing reached fever pitch. She was a whore. She was a slut. This was all her fault. Meanwhile, back at the Cummins residence, Tad began acting like a big old weirdo. He always made coffee every night before he and his wife went to bed. And one night he said, hey, let me teach you how to make the coffee.

And Jill started crying because she thought, my God, he thinks he's going to jail. That's not what he thinks. What's he think? He's going to leave. Right? Right? Hmm. to leave. Hmm. Right? Hmm. Then, after Tad had been suspended from his teaching job for about a month,

he and his wife had a normal weekend. They hung out at the house, they went out to eat, they went to church. At least it seemed normal to Jill. In reality, Tad was freaking out. Since he couldn't be around Elizabeth at school, he was monitoring her social media posts. And if she didn't post for a few hours, he would message her accusing her of cheating on him. And he'd tell her

that if he found out that she was with another boy. Another boy? Yeah, it's like, dude, you're 50. You're not a boy. You are not a boy. Not yet a man. That he'd kill the boy.

Clearly, Tad was a fucking nut and he needed Chris Hansen to lure him into a big beige house, but Chris Hansen must have been busy because at some point Tad told Jill, Hey, I need to borrow your car. I've got a job interview out of town, and I'd like to take it, but I don't want to take my Jeep. And Jill, of course, said sure. Of course. She didn't think anything of it. By this point, Tad was calling Elizabeth.

He told her he was going to kill himself. He was going to kill her family. He would do horrible things if she didn't meet him at Shoney's. What is with these cases you do, Kristen? Shoney's has a delightful salad bar, by the way.

You haven't been to a Shoney's in years. Okay, years ago, Shoney's had a delightful salad bar. You know what I used to love at Shoney's? What? They had a cardboard cutout of a tree and a little hole. You put your head in it? No, no. Even better, if you can imagine.

At the end of your meal, if you were a kid, you could reach in, pull out a lollipop. Oh! Loved Shoney's. Shoney's had soup and salad bar, and the salad bar had all the fixings. Little chunks of ham. Uh-huh. Pepperonis. Uh-huh.

Black olives. Cottage cheese. Do you like black olives? I love black olives. Oh, because they're not as salty as other types of olives? Yeah. It's the only olive I eat. I know. I mean, I'm shocked that you would eat any olives,

but the black olive, that makes the most sense. That tracks. And they had soup. They had two types of soup and oyster crackers. I used to go with my grandma all the time when I was a kid, and it was like the best thing ever to get the salad bar. Grandmas and little kids love Shoney's.

And if it was your birthday. What? What happened? Do you know what fucking happened? What happened? You know what fucking happened? They brought you out this giant dessert that was like all chocolatey and whipped creamy and delicious. And a stuffed Shoney bear.

Okay, that's pretty cool. It's super fucking cool. Man, whatever happened to Shoney's? They probably went bankrupt because of all those bears. I'm going to look up the nearest Shoney's. Also, on Sundays, in place of the salad bar, they would have a breakfast buffet. How often did you go to Shoney's? We had mini donuts.

How often did you go to Shoney's? You had mini donuts. How often? Oh, okay. Top searches. People also ask, what happened to Shoney's? How many Shoney's are left? Is Shoney's going out of business? Let's see. My grandma lived right by a Shoney's, so we went to Shoney's quite frequently.

My grandma watched me when I was a kid, so frequently went to Shoney's quite frequently. My grandma watched me when I was a kid, so I frequently went to Shoney's. Don't brag about your life. In 2000, the Shoney's franchise was forced to declare bankruptcy. Oh, no. Because Brandy went in there every week and said it was her birthday. That's what it says. That's not what it says. Yeah, so.

Oh, now this is from 2016. In its heyday, Shoney's had close to 1,300 locations. Shoney's was the best. The company has about 150 restaurants today, and that's 2016. You know that number has dwindled. Has dwindled. So, I was a big fan of Shoney's. Went to the one on 87th Street in Lenexa a lot.

I went to the one on 87th Street in Lenexa a lot. Different grandma one time demanded that we stop at Shoney's on a road trip. Okay. One time. And she had the audacity to order steak there and then complain when the steak was bad. Well, I mean, it was at Shoney's. What was she expecting? Now, come on. We all know what we're getting at Shoney's. What was she expecting? Now, come on.

We all know what we're getting at Shoney's, right? Anyway, so I'm sorry. You know what? I was also upset when they mentioned Shoney's in this case because I have only fond memories of Shoney's. And they have besmirched Shoney's good name. Not they. Tad. Tad.

So Tad's like, meet me at the fucking Shoney's. Tell them it's your birthday. You'll get a stuff of hair. So Elizabeth was scared. So she went to Shoney's. But before she left, she told her sister Sarah, if I'm not home by six, call the police. Oh. So she really was scared. She was scared.

She knew something could go wrong here. So Elizabeth met Tad at the Shoney's. And I think they met in the parking lot. They didn't even go in? They didn't even get to go in. She didn't even get to go to the salad bar? No, she didn't. You know who had the next best salad bar?

Who? Ruby Tuesday. I knew you were going to say Ruby Tuesday. Damn it, why didn't I guess? That would have been so good. Yeah, they did have a good salad bar. They've also gone away. Yeah.

What did you like on their salad bar? Okay, this is what I would do. Okay. They also had the little chunks of ham on the salad bar. You do some lettuce. You do some cheese. Carrots. Right. Peas. Uh-huh. You do some cheese. Uh-huh. Carrots. Right.

Peas. Okay. Yep. This is a very 90s salad you're describing. Ham. Uh-huh. Cottage cheese. Yeah.

Oh, this is a Midwest 90s, excuse me. Croutons. Yep. A little drizzle of ranch on there. Okay. See, I don't do too much ranch because the cottage cheese really gives you all the... Gives you a lot of liquid. All the moisture you need.

Now, for it to be truly Midwestern, you should have added some hard-boiled egg, which I know they had at Salabar. I absolutely would put hard-boiled egg on there. Yes! Yes! Oh, man. When Norman and I... I'm sorry.

This episode is off the fucking rails. When Norman and I lived in North Carolina, you know, we were in a small town. Actually had a lot of good food options, but we did not have much money because I was a newspaper reporter. So in the paper, we would get like a two for 20 coupon at Ruby Tuesdays. So we would hit up the Ruby Tuesdays quite frequently when we were feeling fancy. Okay, I had salad bars ruined for me. Why? Are you going to ruin it for me?

Well, I mean, yeah. Salad bars are disgusting. Oh, yeah. I one time in a hen house, which that's our local grocery store chain for anybody who doesn't know. That's like the fancy grocery store chain. Yeah. Because I'm bougie.

Clearly. I saw a little girl go up and, you know, they had all the j grocery store. Yeah. Because I'm bougie. Clearly. I saw a little girl go up. And, you know, they had all the jellos. Yeah. The multitude of jellos. Touch the jello, Brandy? You know what she did? What?

She took the serving spoon, ate, put it back in. And I was the only one who saw. Did you tell on her? I don't think I did. I was a teenager. I was just horrified. No, I'm sorry I didn't. But it just ruined it for me because I thought, how often does stuff like that happen?

All the time. All the time. All the time. Mm-hmm. Anyway, I once watched someone at a Chinese buffet drop an entire brownie into the vat of sweet and sour. No! And then walk the other way. No!

Ew! Oh, no! That had to make it taste so weird. Oh, my God. Can you imagine if you were the person and, like, you got a chunk of brownie in your sweet and sour soup? Dare I say, this is exceptionally sweet. Am I detecting notes of cocoa? That is terrible.

What you witnessed that day is terrible. The last time I went to a Chinese restaurant. Sorry. It was a long way. That's ridiculous. I feel like it's when I do my cases that we just really lose it. So it was when Norman and I first moved back to Kansas City. And it was move-in day.

So we moved into our new place. And my dad had been helping us. And it was just-in day so like we moved into our new place and my dad had been helping us and it was just like a ton of work and afterward we were all super hungry so we went to the Chinese buffet and my dad he just has no control at a buffet I mean he's just like a one eight-year-old unsupervised he goes nuts and mean, this is one of those places that have the chocolate fountains. He didn't eat for like 24 hours. Like a snake, you know, they say a snake can like

eat, and then they just chill for like days. That was my dad. Anyway. So, yeah, they went to the Shoney's. And so Tad told her, you need to write a note. A note that will send police in the wrong direction. Tell them you're headed for New York City.

New York City? Okay, you know what? Someone reached out. I'm sorry, again, again, we're off on a new tangent. Someone reached out and said they love the way I say New York City because I sound like one of those salsa guys from those old commercials. New York City. So Elizabeth wrote the note and it kills me because I don't know what the note said, but she wrote it in a way that was purposefully outlandish because she wanted the police to know that they weren't really headed for New York City. So, you know, she wrote the note.

I think she left it like outside the Shoney's. And then at that point, Tad pulled out a gun and set it in the middle console. That's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. It was absolutely terrifying. And from there, Tad just drove. That evening, Elizabeth's dad called the police, and he told them,

my daughter's missing, you need to find Tad Cummins. By that point, Elizabeth's father was the second person to call the police on Tad, because his wife Jill had also called. Yeah. Oh, shit. That evening, police issued an Amber Alert for Elizabeth. And a Big Creepy Dude Alert for Tad. Why don't we have Big Creepy Dude Alerts?

We should have Big Creepy Dude Alerts. But Tad's time in the CIA and the FBI must have really paid off because very early in their journey, he made Elizabeth throw her phone off a bridge and he threw his off as well. And then he disconnected the GPS in his wife's car. At one point, they made it to Alabama and Tad stopped and went to what appeared to have been like an abandoned van. And he took the license plate off the van and he put it on his wife's vehicle. Wow. From there, Tad drove to Mississippi. Tad and Elizabeth traveled and traveled and traveled.

And even though this story became national news, investigators couldn't catch them. Tad, of course, abused Elizabeth the whole time. And he made sure that she was never out of his sight. He made her sleep naked so that she couldn't easily run from where they were staying. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Plus, he was a light sleeper, so when she moved, he generally woke up. He wouldn't even let her use the bathroom alone.

He told her deeply disturbing things. He said she was his wife and they were going to get married and that she'd be with him until she died. He put her on a strict diet. He told her he liked skinny girls, so he wouldn't let her eat hamburger buns or anything high in calories. Brandy, your face. Gross! Yeah, he didn't take her to Shoney's. eat hamburger buns or anything high in calories. Brandy, your face. Gross. Yeah, he didn't take her to Shoney's.

You know, I've noticed from like, oh, shit, what's that cult everyone's talking about these days? NXIVM? NXIVM, yeah. I didn't realize until watching that documentary how common it is to do calorie restriction and sleep restriction on people. You just have total power. And usually if you're doing it to women, you make it about like, oh, well, you know, you need to look sexy, but really you're just weakening them. The whole experience was exhausting and traumatizing. They never stayed in the same place for more than a few days, which meant they went to a lot of places. They went everywhere from Tennessee to Alabama to Mississippi to Arkansas

to Oklahoma to Colorado to Utah to Nevada to California. Oh my gosh. At one point they were spotted in a Walmart in Oklahoma City, wow yeah at some point Tad began buying Elizabeth alcohol to deal with her problems yeah so okay Elizabeth talked about this in the 2020 episode a little bit and it just sounded like you know he's abusing her she's having a terrible time he has kidnapped her yeah and I guess he didn't like hearing a lot of lip from her, so he just got her drunk, I assume. But here's the thing. The whole time, Elizabeth was super smart. She paid attention.

She took rocks along their journey, and she wrote the county and state she found them in. She hoped that if she ever did get rescued, she'd be able to tell authorities where he had taken her. At one point, he gave her a calendar, and she began marking the days, where she was at, how long she'd been gone. But after a while, she stopped because she didn't think she'd ever be found. And that made sense. There was a nationwide manhunt for Tad Cummins, and he hadn't turned up shit. Tad's wife, Jill, went on TV and pled for him to come home. But Tad had other ideas. But Tad had other ideas. He wanted to go to Panama.

In his mind, if they could get to Panama, he could do whatever he wanted. He'd been there on mission trips, and that's where he wanted to be. At this point, they were in California. So Tad came up with a brilliant plan that would get them all the way to Panama. Are you ready to hear? I am so ready. He got a kayak. Are they going to hear? I am so ready. He got a kayak. Are they going to kayak to fucking Panama?

Yeah. Yeah. Is he an idiot? Yes. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Yeah. So his plan, just to be perfectly clear, was to kayak from san diego california just right on down all the way down to panama uh-huh that is three thousand nautical miles yeah

that's super fucking stupid so they got out to sea in their kayak. And then he was like, how do I fucking tell which way I'm going? I mean, first of all, it's a 15-year-old and a dumpy 50-year-old guy. No, he's a former CIA agent and a Navy SEAL. Oh, right. I forgot. But, you know, that was in his heyday. Yeah.

You know. Muscle memory, though, Christy. So they get out there and they're kayaking. And they almost died out there. Of course they did. Like five feet offshore because a big wave sucked them under. So Tad was like, well, maybe we shouldn't kayak all the way to Panama. So they went back on shore and Tad did some more brainstorming.

What did he come up with this time? Hot air balloon? He was getting a hot air balloon all the way to... I know. I'll hijack a plane and that's how we'll do this. No, that's when he decided we're going to a commune. No, that's when he decided we're going to a commune. We're going to the Black Bear commune where people go to be free. OK, this actually, I mean, compared to the kayaking idea, this is brilliant because the Black Bear commune is a homesteading community where everyone's off the grid.

They don't have TVs. They don't have Internet. They don't get newspapers. So Tad and Elizabeth were not going to be recognized there. Yeah. So they showed up at this commune and Tad told people that they were a couple and that their names were John and Joanna and that they were 44 and 24. Okay. Naturally, the crunchy commune welcomed the couple in and gave them a bed to sleep in and shared their food. And people really liked Joanna.

Yeah. Joanna was sweet and quiet and she picked up after herself. Mm-hmm. But John? Was a dick. Yes. Yes. How stupid do you have to be?

You're in a position where you yourself are tremendously vulnerable. Right. And you can't be smart enough to at least be nice to the people who have taken you in. Ridiculous. Idiot. John had a bad attitude. He was killing the vibe. So on this episode of 2020, a guy named April Showers gave the tour.

No. Yes, Brandy, yes. April Showers? That was, that's, yes. And he seems like a nice guy. So he gave the. Was May Flowers falling right behind? You know what?

It was a big deal for him to show them around. They didn't even show the whole commune. It's a very, also, April showers. Quite an attractive band. So he gave this show like a tour of part of the commune. And April showers explained that John, quote, acted on wrong impulse. Oh. And brought bad behavior, quote, into our sacred space.

Which is hippie speak for this guy's a blistered butthole. That's not a thing, Kristen. A blistered butthole? Yeah, Tad is a blistered butthole. I'm calling it right now. Overall, the people at the commune got a real pervy vibe from this John character. They did not like him. And at one point, because again, Ted is an idiot, he got into a fight with one of the people in the commune and he pulled a knife on the guy.

Oh, for fuck's sake. And the commune people were like, what? You literally just had to play it cool. Right. Pick up after yourself. Be nice. You pull a knife come on so the commune people were like what the hell man dude we're we're a peace and love kind of place we don't pull knives on

each other read the cabin yeah yeah pretty good pretty good and then they all said, this is a community of welcoming. So why don't you get the hell out? That's an office reference. I dropped in an office reference last week and you didn't get it. So I rolled past it. By this point, Tad had taken Elizabeth for 36 days. Wow. Meanwhile, back in Tennessee,

Tad's wife Jill was like, well, I think I'm about done with this shit, and she filed for divorce. Yeah. She listed March 13th as the day they separated, which was also the day the Amber Alert was issued. So that was going on in Tennessee, but Tad and Elizabeth were still in Northern California going by John and Joanna. They'd been kicked out of the commune, and now they were in Cecilville, which is like this tiny, unincorporated community. So they showed up at the service station in Cecilville and met a guy named Griffin Barry. What?

These are interesting names. Griffinberry. I mean, that's nothing compared to April Showers. Well, April Showers is clearly a made-up name. Griffinberry, that's probably his birth name. Probably his birth name, yes, yes. Griffin had kind of a Jesus-y look, looked like he made his own granola, rolled his own doobies, you know. And he'd actually sold Tad and Elizabeth gas and given them directions to the Black Bear

commune about a week earlier. He did not remember it, but, you know, that had happened. Yeah. So they were back. And this time, Tad told Griffin this sob story about how they were just a couple from Colorado with a big, creepy age gap. And they just had the worst luck in all the land. Oh yeah. You see their house had just burned down and at the

same time John had also lost his job. Oh okay. His job was in the house. Yeah. So Griffin was like, okay, I'll help you out. Griffin was the caretaker of some property. And on that property were a few cabins. The cabins aren't great. The cabin that Griffin gave to John and Joanna had no heating, no insulation, obviously no plumbing. But they weren't in the position to be choosy. Yeah. And they were willing to work so that they didn't wear out their welcome.

So the next morning, Griffin picked up John and Joanna to go to get rocks for a masonry project. And on their way out there, Griffin asked Joanna for her name. And she said, Joanna. But she said it kind of strangely, and she said it with an accent. And the funny thing is, this Griffin guy, he's actually from Tennessee. So I wonder if he heard a familiar accent. They didn't say that in the show or in any other article I read. But that's, I don't know, something I wonder.

Bottom line was, Griffin got really weird vibes from these two. Later that night, Griffin told a neighbor about the weird experience, and he was like, you know, the girl is just super quiet. She didn't want to talk to me at all. I don't know. Something's going on there. So that night, the neighbor looked into it and discovered Elizabeth Thomas's Amber Alert. And of course, Tad's creepy little picture was included with Elizabeth's Amber Alert. So Griffin and the neighbor were like, holy shit, dude.

And they called the cops and told them, hey, I think we've got some information here. And pretty soon, a SWAT team took off for that cabin. Thank God for Griffin. No kidding. No kidding. No kidding. He got $10,000. Good for him. Absolutely.

So SWAT team surrounded the cabin and ordered Elizabeth and Tad to put their hands up. And once it became clear that there was no way out, Tad whispered to Elizabeth to tell them that they hadn't done anything and that she'd gone willingly. No. Mm-mm. So they arrested Tad.

Tad had taken Elizabeth on the run for 38 days. Oh, my gosh. For Elizabeth, that final day was the best day of her life. She was finally rescued. She boarded a plane for Tennessee, and shortly after she got home, she received inpatient counseling. But obviously things didn't get magically better. Despite the fact that Tad Cummins is a human shit stain, there were and are people in this town who defend him. Oh my gosh.

They think that Elizabeth is, quote, just as guilty as he is. What? Yeah, they interviewed one of these dum-dums on the show. And this woman was like, yeah, basically, like, we think she went willingly. She's just as guilty as him. She was asking for it. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. I hate this. I hate that crap. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I hate this. I hate that crap. So, you know, these people are beyond stupid and need to read a book about power dynamics. But until that happens, that's what Elizabeth was dealing with when she got back home. Despite everything he'd done, Tad had people in his corner.

And people who were willing to listen to him talk about how the devil had made him do all this. Oh, great. You know how the devil had made him do all this. Oh, great. You know how the devil is. Yeah. Always being devilish. Making you abduct teenagers from a Shoney's. Always. That's why Shoney's had to shut down.

That's right. It was the devil's favorite restaurant. Devil loves a good salad bowl. Tad tried talking to the devil about taking responsibility for his crime, but ultimately in April of 2018, Tad himself pled guilty and not the devil, which is just rude. Super rude. He pled guilty to transporting a minor across state lines for sex and obstruction of justice. That's it? I know.

I don't like it. I'm wondering why not kidnapping? Kidnapping, yeah. At his sentencing hearing in January of 2019, Elizabeth, who was now 17, opted to submit a victim impact statement. It's really long. It's also really good. So I'm going to read a big chunk of it. Mr. Cummins, what you did to me is unspeakable. I don't know that any words could ever accurately express how much pain I have suffered and continue to suffer because of you. When I started school, you picked me out of the crowd. I was just a kid who wanted to make friends, but you were someone who had a plan.

You saw a broken girl who was lonely, scared, and traumatized. You made her feel safe and loved because you saw what she needed and made her believe you would be her protector. I was at a point in my life where I needed to be protected the most, and when it came down to it, that was all part of your plan. All you were was a man who wanted sex, and you manipulated me and used me for just that. I don't know if you have ever taken or could ever truly take responsibility for those actions. First, you said I was to blame. Then you said the devil made you do it. But if that's true, then you are the devil. Your choices were yours alone. A 17-year-old girl should not have to tell a 52-year-old man this, but choices have consequences. Your choices

destroyed not just my family, but also yours. You act like you care now and that you're full of all this regret, but where was any of that before? Where was any of that when you first had me alone in your classroom and told me you wanted to see me naked? Where was any of that when you directed me into your classroom closet and violated me over and to see me naked? Where was any of that when you directed me into your classroom closet and violated me over and over again for months? Where was any of that when you spent untold amounts of time and effort into manipulating, pressuring, and deceiving me into thinking that you were the only person who cared about me?

Where was any of that when I told you I was depressed and wanted to see a therapist, but you talked me out of it? Where was any of that when you convinced you I was depressed and wanted to see a therapist, but you talked me out of it? Where was any of that when you convinced me to get into the car with you on March 13, 2017? Where was any of that when you sexually assaulted me night after night? Where was any of that when you made me sleep without my clothes on? Where was any of that when you made the decision to keep me away from my home and my family, not once, not twice, but for 38 straight days. It's convenient that you only say you're sorry now while sitting in a courtroom in front of a judge who is about to sentence you, but the truth is,

it doesn't matter how much time you have to serve, you will never be able to undo what you did to me. much time you have to serve, you will never be able to undo what you did to me. You may someday have the luxury of moving past it, but I never will. I will have to live with the scars you left on me forever. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Yeah. That is a great statement. Absolutely. She wrapped up by asking the judge to sentence Tad to 38 years in prison, one year for every day he kept her from her family. But like I said, Tad did have his defenders, his daughters and his parents and a former student all wrote letters to the judge on his behalf. student all wrote letters to the judge on his behalf his oldest daughter erica osborne said that her father's biggest goal and buckle up okay i'm just gonna say buckle up erica osborne said that her father's biggest goal in life had always been to quote show god's love to everyone through Right. I mean, OK. I understand. Family. Yeah. You're going to be there for your family no matter what. But you don't have to spout bullshit on their behalf. No. You can love someone and support them and not be part of the bullshit machine. Yeah. she wrote that, quote,

he cares about others' well-being and happiness to the point of risking his own well-being so that the person he is dealing with is okay. He loves strong and loves hard. Gross! Yeah. Also, honesty, Brandy. Honesty is very important to her father. Okay.

She said you could tell how much he valued honesty by the fact that he didn't ask for an attorney when he was arrested. Okay. Yeah. All right. Love it. So I'm going to read a little more of her letter to the judge. This is kind of chopped up from different places, so this is a little choppy, but here we go. He always said one little lie that seems so insignificant in our brain will always spiral into many more significant lies.

When this all started, the devil won. My dad freaked out because never before had he been in such a dark place. And then the lies began. He knew nothing but to cover that up, so not to hurt anyone else by this stupid thing he had let happen. cover that up so not to hurt anyone else by this stupid thing he had let happen. That little lie turned into many big lies that eventually began to torture him to the point of no return. Okay, this is stupid. I mean, this is ridiculous. It turned into a tangled web of lies that then became a literal runaway train of fear and shame. Though many mistakes had been made, he was so thankful that this nightmare he was living with was over

that he was just ready to be himself again so that what came natural to him was to tell the truth. So that's what he did. Okay. No. Okay. No. I wouldn't normally include something like this, but this woman's an adult.

Yeah. I don't get it. I don't either. I do not get that at all. Yeah. Hmm. Unless... She just loves hard, Kristen. Well, yeah. I mean, so there are a lot of things to pick apart but

like yeah how tone deaf do you have to be when your dad's been accused of sexually assault someone to be like he loves hard yeah really you're not thinking about how that comes across yeah but also oh it's just one little lie that just spiraled out of control. Was it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. We've all been there. We've all been there. When we, oopsies, abduct a teenager. And oh, yeah, he was just so relieved to be caught. Yeah, I'm sure. Give me a break. I couldn't find anything from his daughter Ashley's letter, but she has done some interviews. And she, from what I've read in interviews, I get her perspective a lot more. She seems to be more of the path of, like, I'm going to continue to visit my dad in prison. I love my dad. Yeah.

Basically, I hate what he did. Yeah. At the sentencing, Tad apologized to Elizabeth's family. He said, Tad apologized to Elizabeth's family. He said, If someone had done this to one of my girls, I would want to hurt them,

and I fully understand if you feel that way about me. Okay. Wouldn't it? I mean, if you feel... Oh, no. No, no, I'm not mad at all. Why? What'd you do? Not upset one bit.

No. You're just a Jesus freak who told one little lie and then it turned into a runaway train of lies and shame we all get that tad was facing a minimum of 10 years in prison prosecutors asked for 30 but he got what do you think he got 15 20 so he fucked off to prison but this story isn't over elizabeth's family was relieved to have her back home and safe but they were also pissed yeah they were incredibly angry with tad cummins the gigantic creepy sexual predator but they were also pissed at the school district yeah they, they sued the school district? They sure did. Yeah. Because, you know, a student had seen him kiss Elizabeth, and yet the school district took a whole week to tell police about the allegation. Tad continued to be employed by the school district for two weeks after that kiss was reported. It wasn't right. The school

district should have handled it differently. And so Elizabeth's family looked themselves in the mirror and they said, let's go to court. They hired an attorney named Jason Watley and they sued the school district for failing to protect Elizabeth from Tad the douchebag. In their lawsuit, they alleged that teachers and administrators knew about the relationship between Tad and Elizabeth before they fired him and before he took her on the run. For this 2020 episode, this part was a little spicy. They went to the high school and they tried to talk to the principal, whose name is Penny Love, and she was in her car. The names in this case. I know.

Penny Love. I mean, Penny Love, April Showers, Griffin Berry, Ted Cummins. Mm-mm. Some names. So Penny Love was in her car in the school parking lot, and the reporter tried to ask her questions through the closed window. And, of course, Penny wouldn't respond. She's, like, looking down at her phone. And the interviewer asked her why she took a week to call the cops on Tad Cummins. And then the principal, guess what she did?

What? Immediately called the cops on 2020. And you know 2020 was really shitty about it. They were like, oh, but she wasted no time calling the cops on us. So the school board, of course, denied any wrongdoing, and they maintained that the only person who did anything wrong was Tad. But in December of 2019. I disagree.

Oh, yeah. Come the fuck on. Elizabeth settled her lawsuit against the school district. Guess what, Brandy? Did they? Do you know the amount? I know the amount. It was not a confidential settlement.

Okay. All right. Give me the deets. $650,000. That's not enough money. I agree. As a condition of the settlement, Elizabeth is not allowed to make disparaging remarks about the school district. Okay.

If anyone asks her about this incident or how the district handled it, she's supposed to tell them the matter has been settled and then not make any additional comments. And she has to sound like a robot the whole time. The school district also wants you to know that the payout is not an admission of wrongdoing, so everybody shut up about it. The matter has been settled. the matter has been settled uh tad recently filed for compassionate release due to threat of covid but he was told to shut up yeah fuck right off elizabeth appears to be doing well from what i could see she works at a coffee shop she recently got married she's got a dog she loves sonic she's working on her ged great good for her yeah she sounds amazing yeah i man i wish her the best i think i think she really her victim impact statement was so powerful i think it's amazing that she

had the foresight to be collecting information about where she was taken yeah and um she's a hell of a survivor yeah no kidding and that's the story of a bad teacher that is a bad fucking teacher yeah that's a terrible teacher i agree that's a bad human being no he's a jesus freak just loves the lord. Just loves Jeeps. Jeeps. Jesus. Don't forget what he did for our country, Brandy. Thank you for your service. You know, at this point, I think people are wanting more of us, don't you? I think they are.

They're like, my God, they covered Shonies. Yeah. Ruby Tuesdays. That's right. I've got to hear more from these two. They're high school teachers. Well, good news, everyone. You can get more.

If you sign up at our Patreon at the $5 level, you get a monthly bonus episode. That's right. We've got 18 of those puppies hanging out over there. We sure do. Also, you get to join our Discord to chitty chat the day away. You get, what else do you get at that level? That's what you get at the $5 level. We want to move on up to the $7 level.

That's the Supreme Court. You get all that plus a card with a sticker in it and our autographs. You also get a monthly bonus video. And this month I made Brandy watch some 90 Day Fiance cringe compilations with me and she

hated it. I sure did. But you get to watch that. That's right. And you get inducted at the end of the podcast and at the $10 level. That's the Bob Moss level. You get all that plus free episodes. And you get them a day early. You also get 10% off on merch. Woo!

What a feeling. We're in 10% off merch. we're in 10% off merch so should we head on over to that discord we just talked about and do some questions I think we should oh I have to pull my phone out for this one because I have two that I want to Wicked Wiener

favorite songs right now I have two Kristen you will never heard of either of these that's fine they're both just like kind of easy vibey songs Right now I have two. Kristen, you will have never heard of either of these. That's fine. They're both just like kind of easy, vibey songs. Okay. Okay. The first one is Mariposa by Peachtree Rascals.

Love it. It sounds like a summer jam. It's just, oh, I just get in a mood when I hear it. It's lovely. Like you're driving with the windows down. And the other one is Sunny Days by Alan Stone. This one's got like a little bit, like a little more funk behind it. So good.

Kristen could not care less right now. They call me Carly, ask restaurant you miss eating at the most? Okay, I don't have a specific restaurant, but like Mexican food. I want to sit down and just then bring me chips and salsa and queso until I have to roll out of the booth. The other day, I got nachos to go. It's not the same. You've got to eat those right away.

You do. You do. Dixon Cider. It's not the same. You've got to eat those right away. You do. You do. Dixon Cider. This is like the restaurant episode. Dixon Cider asked, what are your feelings about slash favorite thing to get at the Cheesecake Factory? I have strong feelings about the Cheesecake Factory. What are your feelings? My feelings are that their menu is too big and it's overwhelming.

I agree. And my favorite thing there, they got rid of. Well, they never get rid of anything on their menu. They sure did. What'd they get rid of? Spicy Caesar salad. And it was delicious. You know, I know it's a very basic bitch thing.

But I fucking love the Cheesecake Factory. It's good. It is. It's very, very good. It is good. They make great salads. Yeah. It's been a million years since I went obviously

but they did this garlicky mashed potato with asparagus and chicken, breaded chicken oh with a lemon butter sauce. Cheesecake wise they have lemon meringue cheesecake. Oh that sounds amazing.

Oh I always like the tuxedo cheesecake. What's that? Oh, it's like chocolatey. Like dressed up and fancy? Yeah, it's fancy. Top hat on? You have to eat the tuxedo, which is disgusting and doesn't go down easily, but you feel fancy when you do it. I mean, Sarah Parker, if you must know, I guess I can brag a little bit. She says, as a mama of a newborn, how does London sleep? Oh, God. People are going to kill you. People are going to find you and kill you for this.

Literally murder me. London is the best sleeper. She sleeps through the night. She sleeps in her own bed. She is amazing. So at her six-month doctor appointment, she got three shots. She got two vaccinations and a flu shot. And so that night she would not sleep without being held.

And so like David and I were like taking turns rocking her. And we're like, oh, my gosh, this is so tough. And then like we looked at each other. We're like, we're fucking assholes. This is what people deal with. All the time. Yeah. So she has gotten to where she sleeps on her stomach now, like. All the time. Yeah.

So she has gotten to where she sleeps on her stomach now, which makes me really nervous. Yeah. I check on her all the time because of it, but she's just. Is that a bad thing? No, it's fine because she can roll freely, but. Yeah. Yeah, it makes me nervous. I'm like, what if she gets on her belly and then she gets her head turned the wrong way and whatever. So I always put my hand on her back to make sure she's

yeah properly okay skip hollandsworth said responded to that question goes you're going to hate her answer she talked about it before london sleeps like a dream child meanwhile my kid didn't sleep through the night until he was like two that story checks out. Oh, I kind of like this. Grazing is Stealing asks, Kristen, did you ever consider writing a young adult dystopian novel? And if so, has that gone out the window with the state of our country now seeming like a dystopian government out of any of those series? You know what? Weirdly, I did.

Yeah. Which seems strange for me, I think. Yeah. But yeah, I thought about it for like a minute. I had just read The Hunger Games. I thought The Hunger Games were great. Yeah. And it made me wonder like, hmm, could I do something kind of like this?

And then I thought that and I never thought of it again. So there you go. No. Absolutely not. Emily Spinach says, Lizzie Borden's house is up for sale. That can't be right. It is. It's for sale for $2 million. I just saw it yesterday.

Business idea. How is that possible? Let's buy it. Oh, my God. And do a Lizzie Borden themed escape room and like a bed and breakfast. We are not touching anything in that house. If you're going to tell me, oh, we need to knock this wall down for some fucking escape room. No, we can make the escape room.

I will axe you. Oh my God. Only $2 million? Yeah. How much you got off hand? I got like $12 in my pocket right now. Great. Okay, that's a down payment right there. What if

we recorded this podcast from the Lizzie Borden house? Holy shit, that'd be amazing. I dreamed a dream of clouds coming in. Ooh, damn it, Brandy wants to know, will you be doing an episode to explain what impeachment is and the process? Maybe cover Andrew Jackson's impeachment or Bill Clinton's. All right, Brandy, do it. Yeah, I'm not fucking doing that.

There are certain cases that you would never do. I would never. I have thought about doing Bill Clinton's impeachment. I find it fascinating. Yeah, you should absolutely do that. That's totally a you thing. I would like to learn about it. Oh, yeah.

I'd like to sit on my ass and learn. Yeah, I mean, I'm just not the least bit interested in doing that myself. Brandy, themed episode. No nuts. Themed episode. You do, Andrew Jackson, because I don't want to. Bidets for Brandy wants to know, what's the dumbest way you've injured yourselves? I once burnt my elbow, of all places, by stopping an oven door from swinging back at me at work.

It took forever to heal. What's your dumbest injury? I burnt my tongue once on a piece of big red gum. Oh, no. What are you talking about? Like, legit burnt my tongue. I didn't even know that was possible. It was too cinnamony?

It was so cinnamony. It literally burnt my tongue. Did you even know that was possible? No. No. Yeah, like, I had a legit, like, burn. Like, you get, like, from No. Yeah, like a legit burn. You get from pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

On my tongue from Big Red Gum. Did you, Sue? I didn't. You should have. Do you have a dumb injury? Nothing that comes close to that, I bet. Nothing funny. Although I have one time.

Okay, this is one of those like, well, I should have seen this coming. So I had a package of frozen salmon. Yeah. And the kitchen shears were dirty. So I was like, well, I'll use a knife to get into this thing. Yeah. Of course, I ended up piercing through to my hand and cut myself. Hurt like hell, but I felt like I couldn't complain to anyone because it was so stupid.

Yeah. Yeah. Steve nearly severed his thumb once trying to get frozen hamburger patties apart to grill them. Really? He was using his grilling spatula. It had like a serrated edge on it. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And he was like prying them apart. This is how good my stepdad Steve is. He finished cooking the burgers before he went to the emergency room. You're kidding me. No. He was like, all right, guys. Dinner's ready. Enjoy.

And I'm just going to head out to the emergency room. That's not ketchup. That's blood. Goodbye. Goodbye. Ooh. goodbye oh kristen who is your favorite and least favorite 90-day fiance couple oh my oh this is tough this is tough but thank you for asking okay let me i'm gonna have to do some googling okay because i've got to have some faces

Let me, I'm going to have to do some Googling. Okay. Because I've got to have some faces. Okay. I'm going to limit myself to the current season. Okay. And I've got some thoughts. Okay. Share them, please.

Okay. So we've got Brandon and Julia. I hate that you don't know what I'm talking about. But, okay. So Julia's from Russia. She's hilarious. I absolutely love her. Uh-huh.

Brandon. So Julia's from Russia. She's hilarious. I absolutely love her. Brandon lives on a farm with his mommy and daddy. And his mommy and daddy are fucking weird. And they're like obsessed with Julia being on birth control. And they have this notion in their heads that she's trying to trap, little boy who looks like a ventriloquist doll. So anyway, love Julia. See, they're asking which couples. You don't like the couples.

You want to mix and match. No, I want to. Well, I don't even know. I just want Julia with someone much better in general. Right. Jovi and Yara. Okay. So Jovi is from New Orleans

Yara's from the Ukraine Jovi hate Jovi no okay hate him hate him hate him not a good guy

yeah he like abandoned Yara what about Ron huh okay you're not taking this question seriously enough

I can tell you that right now a lot of people tune in to this podcast just to hear your Okay. You're not taking this question seriously enough. I can tell you that right now. A lot of people tune in to this podcast. Just to hear your dick done. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Mike and Natalie. Okay. This is a couple.

They're not good. So, okay. Natalie is from the Ukraine. She seems seems a little like she's been on previous seasons i've not seen previous seasons with the two of them this is a couple they seem to hate each other okay they are just like this should not be happening at all she is from the city and she clearly i mean like he tried to make her French toast one day. He thought it'd be a fun thing. Like, they'd have French toast on the weekends.

But she was like, it's not healthy. And then she ate a raw carrot. Also, he has, like. I'd tear up some French toast. Well, I know. I mean, that's the thing that just makes me scream at the TV. Because I'm like, dude, Mike, you can find an American woman. Exactly, who would love to eat your French toast woman who would roll hog wild on some French toast.

Now, she's not going to be size zero Natalie who eats the carrot. But anyway, so Mike lives off on this incredible property. But his house is like this shitty trailer that does not look like a fun place to live. Saving up to build the dream house on the property. I don't think he is, Brandi. I think he seems like a guy who is very set in his ways. This is why they don't work. Because, like, he doesn't understand why she's not happy.

She doesn't understand. Like, okay, listen to this. Listen to this. She's vegan. I mean, she, listen to this. Listen to this. She's vegan. I mean, she says, but she eats scallops. So I don't know if she doesn't know how to read a menu yet. You know, she's not from here. But anyway, so she's getting, she gets mad at him because he eats meat and drinks alcohol.

Granted, not to like, he's not like getting drunk. He's just like, well, have a glass of wine. You're already bored. No, I'm listening. Anyway, so what do you do you're in a relationship you're a vegetarian the other person eats meat what do you do i don't know i mean in my opinion nothing nothing yeah but she's like trying to get him to change and like yeah that's not gonna happen it's just not like it's just not gonna happen they should just be done so yeah Yeah. Anyway, so that's them. Some other couples are, oh, oh, Stephanie and Ryan.

Okay, Stephanie's 52. Ryan's 27. He's from Belize. Stephanie's nutso cuckoo. She is trying to get the world record for hula hooping. What? And she is being scammed by this 27-year-old like you would not believe. But she's had some trauma, so she just doesn't see that coming.

Oh, goodness. Anyway, so I'll stop there. But I am very much a fan. If you want to hear more. Listen to Kristen's new podcast. No, you know what I love? There's a podcast called 90 Day Gaze. They just changed their name to Reality Gaze. Oh.

They're branching out. No, I think they got in trouble with Discovery. I think. But be careful about Googling Reality Gaze. You will find some stuff. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I tried to follow them on Twitter and was like, uh-oh. All right, I think I found the perfect question to wrap this up here. Okay. Amnesie asks, favorite LaCroix flavor?

Mine is the one that tastes like someone ate fruit and then burped into the can. Oh, you're so funny, aren't you? So funny. You know what? I actually have strong feelings. What's your favorite? No. I like, you know what I've discovered?

I don't really love LaCroix. I like Poland Spring. I think they make a better seltzer. Don't make this face at me. They make a very good grapefruit, okay? They also make a delicious cranberry lime. You do some vodka in that, you are good to go. Yeah.

Very happy for you. You don't seem happy for me at all. You know what? On that note, I think we should do some Supreme Court induction. I think we should. And this week we are reading people's favorite cookies. Cookies.

Cookie crisps. I love that cereal. That cereal was the best. That's why. Do they still make that? They don't, do they? I think it's still around. You remember the commercials had like the robbers?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, what was the idea there? They were stealing all the cookies, right? I think that was the deal. They were cookie thieves. Jess. Chocolate chip.

Hydro. Chocolate chip. Allison Goff. Sugar cookies. Lauren Waldbrun. Girl Scout Samoa. Monica DeHaan. Those sugar cookies with frosting and sprinkles from Walmart.

I know exactly what she means. They're so good. They are so good. Super soft ones, yeah. Gray Bauer. Snickerdoodle. Sina Kautenberger. Shortbread biscuits.

Cat. Jalapeno and corn sugar cookies. Ooh, I would eat that. That sounds very interesting. Brandy would politely decline. Brenda Ravbojar. Chocolate chip cookie with shaved coconut. White chocolate macadamia nut.

Carrot cake sandwich cookies. Can't believe that's a thing I've never tried. Any cookie that I can fit in my mouth. Heather Brenner. Snickerdoodle. Laney. Chocolate chip. Kelly Lynn Brown.

OG Mother's taffy cookies. Sarah Lash. Peanut butter cookie. Welcome to the Supreme Court! This was kind of a wild ride. It was a wild ride. We had some themes. We had SEAL Team 6. Yeah. Amber Alerts. Yep.

What else? Kidnappings. Kidnappings. Yeah. Restaurants. For some reason, mine was not a kidnapping. Yeah. I need to look more into that.

That was odd. Thanks, guys, for hanging in there with us. Yeah. And thank you for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways

to support us, please find us on social media, on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon.

Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and head on over to Apple Podcasts, leave us a rating, leave us a review,

and then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics podcast adjourned and now for a note about our process i read a bunch of stuff then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary and i copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes wikipedia so we owe a huge thank you to the real experts for this episode i got my info from the classroom to to Captive episode of 2020

and a shit ton of reporting from the Tennessean and a few articles from the Huffington Post. I got my info from an episode of Snap as well as articles for emissourian.com, 14 News, the Columbia Missourian, CBS News, and ABC News. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com.

Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.