Let's Go To Court! - 16: The Runaway Bride & the Not-So-Perfect Crime

Episode Date: May 16, 2018

Teenagers Richard Loeb and Nathan Leopold had everything they ever wanted. They were highly intelligent. They came from wealthy families. Life was so great that they felt certain they were above the law. So they decided to test that theory by committing the perfect crime. Turns out they weren’t so smart after all. The pair were quickly questioned in the brutal murder of 14-year-old Bobby Franks. Then Brandi tells the story of Jennifer Wilbanks, who disappeared one day while she was out jogging. Her fiance was distraught. Her family panicked. Police began a nationwide search. People were captivated by this story. Poor Jennifer’s lavish 600-guest wedding was right around the corner. Where could she be? And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: An episode of American Experience, “The Perfect Crime” “Leopold and Loeb Trial,” Famous-trials.com In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Vigil for missing woman to replace wedding” CNN “Runaway Bride Back at Home” Associated Press, Fox News “Runaway Bride Is Indicted” by Ariel Hart, New York Times “In Plea Deal, Runaway Bride Gets Probation” by Ariel Hart, New York Times  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll talk about two assholes who set out to commit the perfect crime. And I'll be talking about the disappearance of Jennifer Wilbanks. Do you know the story of the perfect crime?

I think that I might. I bet you do. But we'll see. Okay. May 22nd, 1924. Yes, I know this. All right, you freak. I was just researching it this morning for next week's episode.

You know what's so funny? Okay, I've never been paranoid that we would pick the same case but this time i was i was like this feels like a brandy case it's a super gross murder um so not really up my alley i felt like i was totally in your lane all right you stole it out from under me well uh prepare to be surprised okay damn it i wrote it like it was a mystery okay anyway a 14 year old boy named bobby franks is never heard of him his parents are millionaires all of a sudden his mom gets a call from a man who says that his name is George Johnson. Mm-hmm.

Which is a porn name if I've ever heard of it. Yes! George says, we've kidnapped Bobby, but he's fine. You'll be getting a ransom note soon. Sure enough, one arrives the next morning, and it says, go get $10,000 in unmarked bills and sit tight. We'll give you more instructions soon. Bobby's parents were obviously beside themselves, but they're like, okay, fine. They get the bills and they wait.

George calls again. He says, there's going to be a taxi coming by your house very soon. Get in. It's going to take you to a drugstore. Again, Bobby's dad is like fine i'll do it he's waiting for the cab when the phone rings again it's the police they've found bobby's dead body horrible it was really bad this is gross um bobby was found naked in a drainage pipe he had been bludgeoned to death his killer had poured acid on his face and genitals to try to disguise him which i when i

first read that i was like okay why acid on the genitals like but i guess bobby was circumcised so they wanted to disguise that yeah like that was some kind of i don't know if that was unusual listen i'm not well versed in 1920s male genitalia so i am highly disappointed which is why i brought you on the podcast today so you know they they find him in this state his glasses lay nearby him on the ground it was a shocking crime police did not have much to go on they had the ransom note they had a tip that there'd been a gray sedan idling nearby but that was it meanwhile bobby's body was taken to the funeral home.

The funeral director put the glasses on Bobby's face, but when one of his relatives came by to identify the body, they were like... He doesn't wear glasses. Yeah. Ugh! That's when they were like, oh, my God, these glasses properly belong to his killer.

Did we just put the fucking murderer's glasses on this dead kid? Yeah. Oh, that's horrible. Yeah. So police start examining the glasses. They're black frames, circular, sort of like Harry Potter glasses.

And the prescription's pretty normal. The frames are pretty normal. But they did have one really unique feature, and it was the hinge. So they look into it and discovered that only three pairs of glasses with that type of hinge were sold in all of Chicago. Oh, my gosh.

Only in the 20s. Right. Chicago. Oh my gosh. Only in the 20s. Right. Was this some kind of like revolutionary new hinge? Like I can't believe there's that many like advances that could take place in the hinge of a pair of glasses.

Who knows? I was just thinking when I was reading about this, like that would never happen today. Because everything is mass produced. Yeah. We all buy our stuff at three different places. Yeah matter where you are in the united states um but these were the days of mom and pop shops and this one optometrist did this for three people so police go to the first person but he'd been out of town for the past two weeks so they cross him off the list they go to the second person it's a woman they didn't say why they ruled her out, but I think it's just because she was a woman. Which turned out fine because she wasn't the killer.

Then that took them to 19-year-old Nathan Leopold. And immediately they're like, well, it can't be this kid. He's super rich. He's a well-mannered sweetie pie. Very smart. Knows a shit ton of different languages. So not your average murderer for sure. He's studying to be a lawyer.

His family has about $4 million in 1924. That's a shit ton. Yes. You know, Kristen, you really need to start looking these numbers up for inflation. It's really a giant hole in our24. That's a shit ton. Yes. You know, Kristen, you really need to start looking these numbers up for inflation. It's really a giant hole in our podcast. $24 million in today's dollars. Did you just make that up just now? Absolutely.

I just made it up. I believed it for like two seconds. It was kind of heartbreaking, the look of hope you had in your eyes. I was like oh she did it Kristen finally did something no so

they're figuring you know I don't ask for a lot out of you Kristen I just ask you to provide us a place to record these to edit all of the audio

to get these episodes ready to go to tell me an amazing story that's going to keep me on the audio to get these episodes ready to go to tell me an amazing story that's going to keep me on the edge of my seat each week and fucking look up the numbers adjusted for inflation you also demand diet coke you are correct flat diet coke which means that every week about a half hour before you come over, I'm like, oh, shit, I forgot to open the Coke. So anyway, the investigators are like, they're looking at all these different factors. And they're like, well, this kid doesn't need ransom money.

Yeah. And why would he murder a 14-year-old boy? This makes no sense. But they question him anyway. They showed him the glasses. And Nathan's like, yeah, I love looking at birds. I'm a birder. I take people out to look at birds.

They must have fallen out of my pocket when I was out there looking at birds. Fair enough. And he had a pretty good alibi, too. He'd been driving out in his family's car with his buddy richard lobe they'd been drinking picked up a few women the women didn't want to have sex so they dropped them off somewhere and just rode around together romantic story yes meanwhile police search nathan's bedroom in it they find a note to his buddy Richard. And it suggests that they're more than just buddies.

Secret love. So the prosecutor is like, this is weird. And not just because it's 1924 and I'm homophobic. Yeah. But like, if these guys are in love with each other. Right. Why did they spend the night of this murder trying to have sex with women? Or maybe they were just having sex with each other and you couldn't tell a police officer that in 1924.

Good point. But right off the bat, the prosecutor's like like this alibi doesn't make sense so they bring in richard lobe for questioning we got another smarty pants on our hands yes uh richard was so smart that he actually graduated high school when he was 14 holy shit this was back when they were having everybody skip grades and then i i don't know at what point they were like oh wait um social smarts count for something, too. So at the time, he was the youngest graduate at the University of Michigan. Wow.

Also super rich. Are you ready for another number that I have not adjusted for inflation? His dad was a vice president of Sears Roebuck and his family was worth 10 million dollars um 11 11 billion 11 billion in today's dollars um richard grew up just a few houses away from nathan by the way i think this is. So they were in such a nice neighborhood. Do you know this? Barack Obama's

former home is like right down four houses down or something. Super weird. So they got to know each other at the University of Chicago. Probably because they were both super young, super rich weirdos. Okay, now are you ready to feel a little awkward?

Oh, God. One of the things that stood out as being so weird about these two guys is that they were obsessed with true crime. Oh, no! You know, every journalist who's written about this seems to think that that's a bad thing. Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Apparently, normal people don't want to hear about crimes weird yeah who would want to listen to that shit oh god i can't imagine let alone set up a couple of mics and see if anyone else is interested so they both loved crime and they especially loved the concept of supermen. So this idea that there were these people who are... Like multiple supermans? Yeah, like you line up all your comic books in a row. No, okay, it's... I'm going to be honest. It's a philosophical thing.

Someone with a German name, I think, invented it. And I'm just trying to avoid saying the german name okay all right i think it was german i don't know anyway so it's this idea that some men are so intellectually gifted that they're above the law um and really above everyone. Laws and rules are for the ordinary dum-dums, but not for us. That was their mindset. Superman. Back to the interrogation.

Yes. Police talked to Richard, and Richard has the same alibi as Nathan. They drove around, tried to pick up women, didn't have much luck. They went home. But the prosecutor was still weirded out by this point they're getting more evidence not a ton but enough nathan's handwriting was a perfect match for

the ransom notes envelope then they took the typed ransom note and compared it to nathan's typewriter but it didn't match so they're like well that's too bad. But they keep looking. And the type did match some of his notes for his law school study group. So they're like, okay. Where'd you type these at? There's a missing typewriter somewhere. Yeah. And at one point it was in this guy's possession. Maybe these two aren't such nice little sweetie pies after all.

And that's a direct quote. Meanwhile, from you. Yeah. No one important or in any way affiliated with this case. Just me. Meanwhile, Nathan and Richard's families are getting a little worried.

They know there, there's no way that their two perfect boys could have done this. So they decide to help out. Oh, God. Nathan's family chauffeur goes to the police station and says, hey, I can prove that Nathan wasn't driving the family car that night.

The family car was in the garage all night. I was working on it. So he's just discredited their alibi yeah well shit so police are like drooling yeah at this point they're like are you positive and the chauffeur's like absolutely i had it the whole night there's no way they could have done this because they didn't have the car. Oh, my gosh. Police are like, fantastic.

We love you. A thousand kisses. A thousand kisses. Because remember, Nathan and Richard, they're saying, hey, we were riding around in the family car. So the police are like, thanks for the hot tip, chauffeur. We will move forward. The prosecutor dials up the pressure. Pretty soon, Richard confesses.

And of course, they're in separate interrogation rooms. So the investigators do that thing of like, you know, Richard spilled the beans. So they go to Nathan. They're like, your buddy's telling on you. You ready to talk now? And Nathan's like, um, yeah, OK. OK. So they confess to the crime.

They pinned the actual murder on each other. Yeah. But I mean, come on. They weren't too choked up about this crime. They showed no remorse. They were pretty proud of what they'd done so okay but they thought that they were committing this perfect crime and then got caught before they could even go through with the whole plan so they shouldn't be too fucking proud of themselves that's one of the many things that pisses me off about this

is they thought they were so smart yeah and they got caught like that immediately yes immediately so dumb yeah um i don't know how hard it was to solve crimes in the 1920s but i would assume pretty hard but police had no trouble yeah with this and the other part of it was you know they thought they'd hidden the body so well. Well, someone discovered it like the next day. Yeah. They saw the kid's foot. Yeah.

Hanging out of this drainage pipe. Yeah. Ugh. But anyway, so Nathan and Richard were pretty proud of themselves. Mm-hmm. And it was like once they started talking, they really didn't want to stop because they Oh, they were just bragging. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Ugh. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah. BTK stuff. Yeah. Prosecutor Robert Lowe was loving every minute of this because he ran for office on a platform of getting rid of crime. And he's like, this is my opportunity. The media is watching this. All eyes will be on me. I am going to nail these two yeah if you can believe it the media was pretty obsessed with this crime

i mean who's the weirdos now yeah yeah everyone's wealthy everyone's good looking um you've got a really weird terrible crime people were horrified when the crime was first reported and then they were horrified again when they found out who the real killers were yeah people were like tell us everything because this makes no sense it's two teenagers who've been handed everything in life. They had such a bright future. They could have whatever they want. And the fear was, if they could go kidnap and murder a child, what's to stop anyone else from doing it? Yeah.

Because people want to believe that criminals are this certain type of person. Right. It's not some preppy little cutie pie going to the University of Chicago. There were all these opinion pieces that came out like did the gin make them do it did jazz music music make them do it holy shit our flappers to blame oh my gosh what about violent video games i just think it's funny that like it seems like every time there's a violent crime, people are like, well, our music lately has been really bad. And it's like, it doesn't matter what time period that happened in. Yes.

Pretty soon the story unfolds. Now, I don't get this part, but this is what it said in this fabulous episode of american experience about this crime it said the two of them had made a deal that if nathan helped richard commit some crimes then the two of them would have sex okay yeah i know i i feel like they wanted to have sex with each other yeah and they wanted to commit crimes together yeah i don't get this whole like yeah i'll help you commit a crime if you have sex with me thing yeah no so they start it just shows that at that point in time it was better to be a murderer than to be gay you think so i think that that's what that shows that that was their mindset at least yeah if that was true if that was truly the arrangement they had yeah

yikes just another reason why we should all be out of the closet and like there should be no shame about sexuality, I guess. So they start committing crimes together. Small stuff, fires, thefts, including stealing a certain typewriter from a frat house. And they got away with everything. Probably because when stuff goes missing at a frat house, no one cares. But they didn't mention that. Then eventually Richard was like, how about murder? We are both so smart.

We can for sure pull off the perfect crime. We're above everybody else. We'll never get caught. Yeah. They planned the murder for months their goal was to commit the perfect crime and the ransom money was just icing on the cake just for fun they obviously did not need money it was just to prove that they could get it yeah here's how they did it they rented a car and typed up a generic ransom note because they didn't have bobby franks in mind right when they

set off to do this crime they just wanted to kidnap and murder someone and bobby was just in the wrong place at the wrong time right richard and nathan were out driving around spotted him decided that's who we're gonna kill the fact that he was basically their neighbor and that he was Richard's second cousin did not matter to them. Richard helped lure Bobby into the car. Then one of them hit Bobby over the head with the chisel. So both of them blamed each other for this. I kind of think it was Richard. Well, OK, who was driving the car?

Well, that's obviously up for debate because one of them had to be driving and one of them was in the backseat is the one that did it. Exactly. But, but they're both saying I was driving. Yeah. So who really knows? So what makes you think it was really Richard? Um, from everything I've read, it seems like Richard was the one who was more into the crime and Nathan was just more into Richard. Got it. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Nathan either. I mean, they both sound horrible. Yeah. But here's one thing,

and I'm not going to give you the context on this quote until later. Yeah. But Nathan wrote that at one point he begged Richard to admit that he did it, and he says that Richard said, Momsy feels less terrible than she might, thinking you did it,

and I'm not going to take that shred of comfort away from her. But again, that was Nathan's take on this whole thing. Yeah. So, at any rate, one of them murdered Bobby. Yeah. And they started driving toward Lake Michigan. Along the way, with his dead body in the car, they stopped for hot dogs and root beer.

Sure. Why not? Yeah. Sometimes you just need an A&W, Kristen. Don't slander the A&W name. This episode brought to you by A&W. Enjoy a frosty float float did you just murder someone did you just murder someone i bet you're parched

oh great this is a great segue now that we've laughed really hard um then they poured acid on his face and genitals. Yep. Should I have waited a beat before I said that? Oh, God. Um, yeah. I picked a real weird moment. Sorry. So they did that. And then they shoved his dead body into a drainage pipe.

They took the boy's clothes back home where they burned them along with their own bloodstained clothes. They told the prosecutor everything. Again, super proud, not remorseful at all. I have a question. Yeah. I don't know. You'll know the answer, but did they get blood in the rental car? Yeah, they did, and they tried to clean it up as best they could.

Which I wondered about that too yeah god yeah i see why you wouldn't want it to be your family car because you wouldn't want how do you explain fucking blood in a rental car exactly it seems like that would get way more attention than blood in your own personal car seems like this was not the perfect crime well seriously don't you wonder like why didn't they take him to where they eventually dumped his body and kill him there yeah and they've already got him in the car so getting him out to that marshland where they i mean that wouldn't have been that difficult i wouldn't think no No. Anyway. Clearly, we'd be better at committing the perfect crime.

And we're super into true crime. Look, if you have sex with me... Oh, God! Oh, God! Wait, is that a no? That's a no for me, Kristen! Damn it, Brandi! Fine, I guess we'll just stick to the podcast all right shot down again so they tell the prosecutor everything the prosecutor's like i've got a great idea you guys me the police all the reporters

let's all go on a field trip together walk us through the crime oh my gosh yes it's unreal photographers were there documenting the whole thing they go to the hardware store where they bought the chisel they go to the area where they dumped the body. I mean, they walk them through the whole thing. The American Experience episode I watched was incredible for a lot of reasons, but the pictures were so stunning. Like the fact that they had photos of this. Yeah. And you know, it's 1920s, like it's all these guys in suits with hats and overcoats and they're just kind of pouring over this wooded area. You would never know from the photos that the two good-looking, well-groomed young men in the front are telling him, oh, yeah, this is where we dumped a body. Right.

Super weird. But even weirder was how cold they were about the whole thing. Nathan said the killing was an experiment. It is just as easy to justify such a death as it is to justify an entomologist killing a beetle on a pin. Your face. Yeah. Gross.

Yeah. Prosecutor was thrilled. He called it an open and shut case well fucking yeah they just confessed yeah he was patting yourself on the back you didn't put the pieces together well hey those glasses come on now so even then he didn't leave anything to chance because he wanted both of them to die for this crime he wanted the death penalty he immediately had richard and nathan examined by a psychologist and those were called alienists yeah which i think is so fun yeah um he was like okay eventually these two guys are gonna law you're up they're gonna say not guilty by reason of insanity right i'm gonna have them examined right this minute to prove that they are sane yeah so the psychologists come they examine the two guys and they're like yeah they're sane but they're human garbage because they don't give

a shit that they murdered a 14 year old for no reason yeah at this point richard and nathan are like maybe it's time for us two geniuses to lawyer up again their families are super rich so they're like all right who's the best defense attorney in the country they get clarence darrow aka the attorney for the damned. Clarence was 67. He was amazing. He had this reputation for avoiding the death penalty and defending the shit out of some really guilty clients. I don't know if you read this part

but I thought this part was kind of funny. So like I said, Richard and Nathan, super snappy dressers. Clarence shows up for their first meeting with egg on his shirt. His suit was all rumpled. His hair was a mess. It looked like maybe he tried to do a comb over, but you know, when a gust of wind comes, he looked terrible. And Nathan was like, well, we're getting the death penalty for sure. This guy is a mess. But apparently having egg on your shirt doesn't mean you're a bad lawyer.

By that point in his career, Clarence had argued about 60 death row cases. Wow. He lost one. Wow. And it was his first one. Holy shit. And so that always ate away at him because he did not believe in the death penalty at all. He thought it was cruel.

Right. because he did not believe in the death penalty at all. He thought it was cruel. So Clarence took the case, and he immediately had tons of experts from all over the country come and examine these two guys. He was looking for any kind of psychological or mental reason that could explain why they committed the crime or maybe be a mitigating factor.

Anything. Meanwhile, he's not feeling so great about this case yeah he's excited to be on it because he loves that this is going to be basically a stage for him to talk about the death penalty but his clients are assholes and everyone knows it yeah people wanted them to die yeah things were not looking good for the defense because the prosecution was like you're dead in illinois kidnapping and murder can both get you the death penalty so the prosecution strategy since richard and nathan had already pled not guilty was to try them separately for

kidnapping and murder so if we don't get you with the death penalty on one, we'll get it on the other. And I mean, who could have lost that many times? Yeah. So they were for sure going to get on death row. Clarence is like, yikes. His original plan was to have them plead not guilty and do the whole not guilty by reason of insanity. But he started thinking about it and he's like, I don't like my odds here.

This does not look good. So he did something completely unexpected. He changed their pleas to guilty. So that did two big things. First, it meant no jury trial. A judge would listen to the whole thing and deliver the sentence. Which, because of how publicized this was and how these were two fucking rich assholes, they would have had so much trouble finding a jury who could be impartial. Yeah.

I mean, that was genius to me. You know, the other thing Clarence said that I think, I think this is so true. He said he thought that it would be easier for 12 people to put someone to death than for one. Because when it's a group of 12, you kind of feel like, well, it wasn't totally my decision. It's a group decision. It's not my own personal decision. Yes. And I completely agree.

Yeah. So he has this strategy. This would mean one person alone would have to sentence these two teenagers to death. Second, it meant only one opportunity for the death penalty because it wasn't, you know, it wasn't going to be two separate things anymore. This whole thing would be consolidated. This was a groundbreaking legal strategy yeah the defense's plan was to say yes we're guilty but please look at all these psychological factors

we're guilty here's why yeah the sentencing lasted 32 days wow i shit. I mean, it was basically a trial. A trial, yeah. The prosecutor called more than 80 witnesses. One source I saw said more than 100. Wow. I mean, you get the idea. Yes. And the defense didn't cross-examine any of them.

Really? Again, his strategy was, we're guilty. We are not debating how terrible this crime was we're not debating that it happened and we're not going to drag this out let's get through that part as fast as possible that makes sense by the way the courtroom was so full that reporters and photographers sat in the jury box wow isn't that crazy that is crazy okay here's a gross thing. Throughout the sentencing, Richard and Nathan sat there giggling the whole time. They were smiling, just... Yeah, these two were gross.

Again, the American Experience episode I watched had a ton of pictures from them at the sentencing, and it was so disturbing. There are these black and white photos of this packed courtroom, everyone's serious. These two are smiling it's unreal yeah on july 30th the defense took over clarence called a ton of experts to the stand and they talked about richard and nathan's immaturity that they're emotionally st, that they rely too much on alcohol. The only reason Sigmund Freud didn't come to testify was because he was in ill health.

Yes. Can you believe that? I mean, if you were an important psychologist at the time, you were called to this trial. Because Richard and Nathan's family was basically like, however much money this takes is fine. We'll pay it. Yeah. The prosecution tried to shut this shit down.

He was like, look, if you want to bring a bunch of psychologists on the stand, then you should have pled not guilty by reason of insanity. But you didn't. You pled guilty. Therefore, you shouldn't be talking about how Richard and Nathan had all these mental and emotional problems but the defense was like no evidence of a mental problem can be a mitigating yeah crime and judge you should be thinking about all these mitigating factors as you make your decision and the judge agreed yeah so the defense kept going. The psychologists also delved into this idea that Richard was the master criminal and Nathan was his slave.

They also said that Richard still talked to his teddy bear. What? I mean, which I agree. I mean, you can, to me, those pictures of them in the courtroom giggling say it all. They are like children. They're not in the real world at all. But I think a huge part of that is their privileged background. Oh, yeah.

Completely. Yeah. Completely. And being told that they're smarter than everyone and better than everyone. Yeah. They got deep into both of their childhoods they said that nathan had been sexually abused by his governess and that richard's governess was just mean richard had to feel a little weak in comparison no kidding yeah well mine wasn't very nice to me but you know they kind of paint this picture of like there was no love in these households it No kidding! Well, mine wasn't very nice to me.

But, you know, they kind of paint this picture of, like, there was no love in these households. It was very cold. They were raised by governesses. Poor little rich boys. Yeah. The prosecutor was like, you're kidding. These are cold-blooded murderers. So all of this comes out in the papers. And, of course, some people made fun of it.

They were like, hmm, I guess we're all crazy, you know? But other people took it pretty seriously and started to really think about psychology and why we do things. And it was kind of unheard of, this idea that maybe we're not all good or evil. Maybe there's a gray area. Maybe we're not sane or insane. Maybe there's a gray area. Right. Maybe we're not sane

or insane. Maybe there's a gray area that there too. These were concepts that a lot of people had never thought. Had never considered. Clarence's closing argument

lasted 12 hours. Yeah. I'm going to read all of it now. Shut the fuck up. Settle in, kids. Sit tight. We'll pause for a bathroom break.

At that rate, we're going to have to pause for 12 bathroom breaks, Kristen. For me, yeah. For me alone, there'd be 12 bathroom breaks. Also, several snack breaks. No, I've just got a sentence. He said, No, I've just got a sentence. He said,

If the state in which I live is not kinder, more humane, and more considerate than the mad act of these two boys, I am sorry I have lived so long. Wow. What's your reaction? That's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. By the time he was done, the judge was in tears. Whoa!

Streaming down his face. And so was Richard, who'd been smirking the whole time. Prosecutor Robert Crowe then gave his argument, and I kind of love this. He referred to Clarence as, quote, the distinguished gentleman whose profession it is to protect murder in cook county wow and he was like by the way it's super cute that you're worried about the health of criminals he was mad he called richard and nathan cowardly perverts, snakes, and atheists. Oh my gosh.

I like that cowardly perverts and atheists are on the same level. What could be worse than a cowardly pervert? Only an atheist. That's right. That's right. That's right. He even in his closing argument implied that Richard and Nathan molested Bobby in the course of this crime. So there had been no evidence of that, but at the same time they poured acid on his genitals.

Right. I don't know. Would you like to speculate more on that, Kristen? I'm thinking he might not have been totally wrong. And I feel comfortable saying that because everyone in this case is dead. So at that point, the judge banged his gavel and told the female reporters to leave the room. Because I guess it was too much for them to hear the news. Wow.

Frankly, I was surprised that there were female reporters no kidding and then mad on their behalf yes um that was kind of the prosecution's only card at that point you know they had pled guilty so he just really wanted to remind people uh this was a horrific crime let's not downplay this in any way. I really like how you stress the whore and horrific. I did, didn't I? Kristen puts the whore and horrific. Thank you.

Thank you. Put that on a t-shirt for me okay so the judge thought this over for 12 days finally he reached his decision and basically he said i don't really care about the scientific evidence. I am not worried about this psychology stuff. What I am worried about is how young Richard and Nathan are. I'm basing my decision on their youth. He sentenced them to life in prison plus 99 years for the kidnapping. People were shocked. Everyone thought they'd be put to death.

Yeah. And they were like, wait, can you buy justice in america is being super rich helpful maybe maybe that's the perfect crime first be super rich then be super white then do whatever you want super white not just regular white super white let me tell you what these guys were super white i'm sure they played backgammon oh they played tennis a lot that's super white you can't debate that look at your face is that not super white? I don't know. I wouldn't describe Andre Agassi as super white. Okay, okay. What about Venus and Serena Williams?

Also not super white. You're right. Okay, what's another super white? Crew. Crew. That's super white. Okay. I bet you's super white. Okay. I bet you don't know any crew.

I don't know any famous cocksmen. You're going to Google them later, aren't you? We'll be cutting all of this out. Okay. So what happened to him? Do you know what happened to them? Have you looked that far? Okay.

This is nuts. Richard was killed in prison by another inmate. Wow. So the inmate claimed that Richard came on to him. Which at first I was like, maybe. Maybe. But other people disputed that. Oh.

This was the interesting theory they had. So Richard and Nathan were basically rich celebrities. Yeah. And initially, when they first went to prison, their families gave them huge allowances for commissary. So they were the rich guys in prison. But over time, the families got less and less generous. Mm-hmm. So the theory is that in the early days of prison, Richard used some of his money his family gave him to like bribe inmates into kind of having his back, not beating him up, that whole deal.

But once the money dwindled away, he lost his protection. Do you need a Kleenex? Is this really sad? No, I'm not sad at all. No, I'm really thinking like, wow, that really bit him in the ass because I bet he didn't treat people very well when he had all of that protection. And now that he no longer has protection, some of those people that he wasn't so nice to killed him. Yeah. Yeah. And they thought, my understanding is they thought he was holding out on them. Uh-huh. It would be interesting to know why his family put less money into his commissary. I don't know if maybe the rules changed at the prison and there was a maximum you could put in. Maybe they were just tired of taking care of his shitty ass. But you know what? Wouldn't that have come earlier? of taking care of his shitty ass.

But you know what? Wouldn't that have come earlier? I feel like my theory is that the further you are away from it, the longer he's been in prison, the more you can justify backing away. Yeah. No, you're totally right. Yeah.

And like, you have more time to think. The shock is gone. You're like, wow, he really murdered a child for no reason. Yeah. Maybe he doesn't need $10 this week. Right. Which in 1924 money was.

How much, Kristen? It was $70. So at any rate, Nathan rushed to Richard's side in the prison hospital because they had the relationship in prison too. But the other inmate had attacked Richard with a razor. You know, he died out pretty quickly. He died out? I'm sorry, bled out. He came out right as he died.

Turns out he was gay mystery no more he was like this is the thing i couldn't tell people i was fine with being a murderer a child murderer yep the 1920s these are crazy times that's right so the inmate was eventually tried for richard's murder but was acquitted how long was he in prison when that happened i don't know um i think like i think it was about 13 years he'd been in for a while yeah yeah um but it was interesting it seemed like the prison didn't want all this negative publicity and so they tried to make it like oh this inmate killed him in self-defense but richard was the only one with

any kind of wounds on him and his throat had been slashed probably from behind yeah it happened in the shower i just thought i'd throw that in thank you for sharing in one of the websites i read which it's a great website so i'm not gonna make fun of it um but in one of the websites I read, which it's a great website, so I'm not going to make fun of it. But in one of the websites, it said he was killed in the showroom. And I was like, the showroom? The showroom. Probably supposed to say like the shower room. Yeah, exactly.

And now for the prison showroom. They have all the uniforms on display. The latest in shackles here's some pottery we made so nathan was released in 1958 he was released uh-huh after 33 years. Holy shit. He got life plus 99 years. Something doesn't add up, huh? No. Yeah, it's bullshit. What the fuck? I know.

It made me so mad. He asked the press for privacy and was really pissed when he didn't get it. Yeah, no, fuck off, dude. You don't get privacy. I wish I would have written this quote down because, of course, as he was released, you know, the press swarmed. Yeah.

And he read this statement where he was basically like, the story is I'm no longer the story. Oh, God. So, you know, his arrogance didn't leave him. And they talked about some of the good things he did in prison, like he set up an education program, blah, blah, education program blah blah blah neat yeah like i to me that shows his ego was still alive and well that he thinks he can tell

the press here's how things are gonna go now i'm gonna go back to my regular life and don't bring up the time i murdered a child okay oh my god how the fuck did he get out of prison i don't know he he applied for parole several times and eventually holy shit yep there's more look on your face in 1959 the year after he was released, the movie Compulsion came out, and it was a fictionalized version of his crime. It was based on a novel, Compulsion. Nathan sued for invasion of privacy. No. The balls.

Yeah. He said, and get ready to feel so sorry for him. This is just heartbreaking. He said, Fuck off. Yeah. Oh, my God. Your victim was stark naked. Yeah naked yeah and acid poured on him

the case was dismissed thank god i was gonna flip a table if i found out that they ruled in his favor no the illinois the illinois supreme court said because this lasted 11 years oh my gosh the illinois supreme, dude, you're a child murderer. Yeah. This movie, this book didn't ruin your reputation. You did. Yes. Yes.

So Nathan moved to Puerto Rico to get away from the attention. By the way, before he moved, he wrote a book about his life. So I guess he wasn't too upset about attention. And that's where that original quote comes from. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where he says that Richard was like, oh, mumsy, you know. Wasn't his book called Life Plus 99 or something like that? Yeah.

Which he didn't get either. So. Yeah. Bad title. But anyway, a lot of people say that that book was just like him trying to. Oh, I'm sure it painted himself in a great light. As great as you can paint yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So he moved to Puerto Rico, got a job at a hospital, eventually got his master's degree, wrote a book about birds, did some work at the university, got married to some dumb lady. I don't know that she was dumb i just i'm just like who would marry this guy um and he died there in 1971 wow and that's the story of the perfect crime oh my gosh okay so there's a more recent movie that's a fictionalized account of this as well.

Okay. Murder by Numbers. Have you seen it? No, I haven't. So it's Sandra Bullock, Ryan Gosling, and Michael Pitt. Ryan Gosling plays a character named Richard. And Michael Pitt's character, I can't remember his name off the top of my head but i think it's like nathaniel yeah yeah and it is like completely it's just a fictionalized account of this but it's take place in modern day but does this ruin richard and nathan's reputations

that would really upset me if it did is it good it's so good okay i mean it's it's older like i want to say like 2002 okay yeah but super good saw it it was the whole reason that i wanted to become an fbi agent really for a while when i was a teenager yes it's really good very young ryan gosling so ryan gosling was super young in it and controversy he and sandra bullock dated and she was like i don't know 20 years older than him at the time how old was ryan gosling like 19 or something yuck yeah wow yeah sandra she has a she has a thing for her uh film partners does she oh yeah who else she often dates i don't know i can't think of any other movie she's well sounds like bullshit sounds like my comment about tennis being a white only sport so what were your thoughts on this case? Like the whole death penalty thing and everything?

I'm surprised in that day and age that they didn't get the death penalty. And it would have. The death penalty then was so different than the death penalty now. They would have been put to death like. Yeah. Within months of their. Yeah. Sentence.

So. I don't know. I felt so conflicted. I feel super conflicted because overall I would not say I'm a fan of the death penalty. Is anybody a fan? I guess there are people who are fans of the death penalty. I don't know. I'm very conflicted about it. The fact that he didn't spend the rest of his life in prison is just infuriating.

I have a glory tear running down my cheek right now over it. My eyes are just watering because of my allergies. Your allergies. Did you take some Percocet before you came over? No, I... Took some Molly instead. I am rolling so hard right now. I thought you seemed a little off today.

I'm so thirsty. I wish I could make more jokes, but I have no idea what Molly does. I don't know anything about it either. That's the extent of my knowledge. No, I felt really, I felt really conflicted on this one because, you know, I'm anti-death penalty. Yeah. But when I saw the judge's decision, I was like, oh, come on. And I think it's because, you know, obviously I don't like the death penalty.

But my biggest, like if I had to choose my biggest problem with the death penalty. It's how do you know for sure are they guilty, right? It's to me that I feel like it's not given out fairly to people. To me, it feels like if you are are poor you can't afford a great defense lawyer you're screwed if you're not white yikes you might be screwed there too you know it just it seems like it's not applied fairly and in a case like this where such a brutal crime they admit to it yeah there's tons of evidence yeah i just think if they'd been anybody else.

Yeah, they would have gotten it. Yeah. But maybe not. Maybe Clarence Darrow was that good. But they couldn't have afforded Clarence Darrow if they were anybody else. Maybe he was doing pro bono cases too, Kristen. You don't know. Hell no, he wasn't.

He had egg on his shirt. He wasn't making that much money. They paid him $70,000. Which in today's money is? $2.5 million. No, but you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really think I could maybe be more okay with the death penalty if it was like, we've got DNA.

We've got a confession. They killed 13 people. And, you know, it's like this checklist. And they were all children holding their bunny rabbits. And the bunny rabbits died too. They had the best attorney ever. Yes. And even still.

Yeah. You know, maybe I'd be okay with that. Probably not. But I did feel really conflicted about the fact that I've always been anti-death penalty. But I saw this and i was like yeah yeah yeah i gotta say when richard was killed in prison i wasn't mad i'm not glad that he died in prison that yes sucks but i'm the fact that nathan got out and then went to puerto rico That just pisses me off.

Yeah, like that he's out living his best life. Died in 1971. Lived a nice long life in fucking Puerto Rico on a beach with some hot wife. Yeah. I just assumed she was hot. I don't really know. She probably had like beautiful long hair and like tan skin and more like you know let me look her up a sarong every day nathan leopold wife okay

smoking hot oh not so much no i mean not not bad looking but i mean she's no cassie chadwick but thin-lipped smile indiscernible chin no i mean she's just an older lady you know married to a murderer man man the good ones are all taken i'm sorry i'm just picturing some shitty t-shirt like the good ones are all taken so i had to marry a murderer no i hated this case this sucked yeah you should leave those ones to me i really shouldn't are you pissed that i how much research did you do i didn't do that much okay i hadn't done that much no you're totally fine okay good

do you need a bathroom break before we actually i get into part two here you cut back on beverages today so you all right here's my fear that you're gonna get we're gonna get halfway through you're gonna start talking immediately i'm gonna be like i'm just talking about like rushing waterfalls and like a babbling brook and like a slow dripping faucet weird how all of those things just come up in this case. You know what my secret is? I'm wearing Depends to me.

Okay. Okay. Alright. The disappearance of Jennifer Wilbanks. Why are you saying it like that? Do you know who she is? No. You will.

Okay. By the time I'm done, you'll definitely know who Jennifer Will Banks is. Good thing you'd really suck at the end of this. I never mentioned her name again. No.

I got my info from articles for CNN and Fox News and then two New York Times articles by Arielle Hart. Okay. Very good. I liked her name. I could tell by the way you said it. You were like, hmm. Sounds like a mermaid.

If we're ever playing make-believe, that's going to be my name. Okay. It's Tuesday, April 26, 2005. Duluth, Georgia. 8.30 p.m. 32-year-old medical assistant Jennifer Wilbanks leaves the home she shares with her fiancé to go for a run. Is this scaring you yet, Kristen? I think I know this one.

Because, um, don't give it away. Okay, okay, no. Okay. But yes, this does scare me. Does it scare you? Because you are a runner. Yeah, and anytime anything bad happens to a runner, I'm like, shit!

So Jennifer is an avid runner. She runs marathons. Oh no no she runs every night in her neighborhood she has like a one mile like loop that she does i mean i think she does it more than once but she has like a specific she's running marathons for sure specific route through her neighborhood okay you know why that really scares me because i used to always tell myself on evening runs I'm just gonna do this tight loop in my own little neighborhood oh don't give me that look like oh you deserve to die with my fucking headphones in so that if somebody comes up behind me I can't hear them what have I told you Kristen you've told me many you know what if you fucking die

oh oh what no No, I'm going to be devastated. You'll be, you'll stand up at my funeral and be like, I fucking told her to get some different headphones. I even showed her these kind that don't go in your ears. Did she buy them? No. No. Everyone will be crying. That will be my eulogy. That was beautiful, Brandy.

Thank you. I get like a slow clap at the end of it. Anyway. So she goes out for a run, just like she does every night. But this night, she's really needing to clear her head. She's super stressed. She's a lot going on because she's getting married in four days. It's a huge wedding at a swanky, it's like a country club.

The Atlanta Athletic Club. 600 guests were invited. Oh, good grief. 14 bridesmaids, 14 groomsmen. No, no one has that many friends. So with the bride and groom and just their bridesmaids, that's 30 groomsmen. That's 30 fucking people.

Then I'm sure you got like flower girls and ring bearers and a candle lighter. That's nuts. It is nuts. That's, if you're listening to this. And you're planning your wedding and you've got 14 attendants lined up. Fucking kick three quarters of them out. What are you compensating for?

That's right. I don't really like the guy I'm marrying, but I've got 14 bridesmaids. That's right. Two hours go by. And her fiance, John Mason, who is also 32, is surprised that Jennifer hasn't returned yet. He's like, well, maybe she's gone on an extra long run because she really, you know. She was gone for how long? Two hours.

Okay, yeah. Trying to clear her mind. Right. Then four hours go by. And she's still not back. So John calls the police to report her missing. When she still hasn't returned the next day, a massive search is launched. Over 250 people show up to help with the search.

Police toss around the idea that maybe she left of her own free will due to cold feet, but they quickly dismiss that because she left behind her keys, phone, wallet, and engagement ring. So she doesn't have anything with her. Jennifer was described as 5'8", 120 pounds, with shoulder length, brown hair, brown eyes, and was last seen wearing a gray sweatshirt, blue sweatpants, and blue New Balance running shoes. Initial... I was trying to say initial...

Fuck. We have no idea what you're trying to say. I was trying to say initial searches, but I, like, clumped it together. Yeah, this will go a lot faster if you don't say actual words. I know, right? Just, like, mix them. Just, like, clump words together. That's right. And we'll just breeze right through this.

Nobody will have a fucking clue what I'm talking about, which probably isn't that different than normal, but... fucking clue what i'm talking about which probably isn't that different than normal but so initial searches of um duluth and the surrounding area turns up little evidence searchers do find a pair of dark blue sweatpants and two sweatshirts but they don't quite match the description of what she was seen wearing they They send them to the lab for analysis anyway. Maybe, you know, John remembered it wrong. Yeah. Whatever.

Then searchers make an alarming discovery. A clump of hair that seems to be a match for the color and texture of Jennifer's is found near a Duluth business park. Investigators send it to the lab as well. But they say, and I think they say this to kind of ease people's minds, but they say it looks as if it was cut off,

not pulled out. That would ease my mind a little. Yeah. So it's sent off to the lab for analysis. Okay. Duluth Police Chief Randy Belcher says though they have no real suspects or leads, authorities were checking into about five registered sex offenders living in the Duluth area, as well as friends, past boyfriends and co workers. So the case of Scott Peterson is pretty fresh on everyone's mind, as he had just been convicted five months earlier and had just been sentenced to death one month earlier. Okay.

Do you know the case of Scott Peterson? I'm not going to go into details because I'm going to fucking cover it. Okay. I'm dibs on it right now. Too bad I already have a script ready. So the public begins to wonder if John Mason had something to do with Jennifer's disappearance. Well, yeah, the fiance always did. Of course.

Mike Satterfield, Jennifer Wilbanks' uncle and the family spokesman, tells the press at a briefing that Mason had taken and passed a polygraph though. Belcher is quick to point out that that info is not completely true. Belcher said that the test that Mason did was conducted by a private examiner hired through Mason's attorney, and that he had still refused to take one at this time through the police. So that's pretty fucking weird. So he hires his own individual to take a polygraph test, presumably to see if he's going to pass it, right? Or just so that he can say publicly, truth i took a polygraph right so then he starts these

negotiations with police about how he's gonna take a polygraph with them as police are like we need to have our own like yeah we can't we don't know anything about this private company that gave you a polygraph we need one and this is not a strange request yeah and so mason's like well i'll do it but it needs to happen at a neutral location not the police department and i want it videotaped and then he comes up with all these like specifications and so the authorities are like fine fine, neutral location, no problem, whatever. What location did they pick? I don't know.

Okay. I pictured them in like a Starbucks. Like the way you do a breakout. Yeah, absolutely. Videotaping though, no, because that's not standard procedure. It could interfere with the results of the test. We're not going to videotape it. Okay.

They're like, that's not standard practice. And so they're still kind of going forth trying to hammer out these details. In the meantime, missing posters have been put up all over town. And the family even put up a billboard with Jennifer's face on it, asking anyone with information to call the tip line. By Thursday, investigators call off the search, saying they've turned over every leaf in the city and they declare that the case has now become a criminal investigation. The GBI and the FBI are now called in to assist. Friday night, Jennifer's dad, Harris Wilbanks, goes on Nancy Grace and makes an emotional plea for the return of his daughter. This is what he says. Jennifer, if you can hear this, we love you. Please call us. If you are someone that has

Jennifer against her will, Please let her go. Please. If anybody has any information that can help us, that can lead Jennifer to us or us to Jennifer, please call the Duluth City Police or any police agency. He goes on to say that his family is absolutely devastated. Yeah. And that it's the hardest thing we've ever gone through in our life. Tonight was supposed to be the rehearsal dinner. Tomorrow, the wedding.

We were all so looking forward to it. I can't describe the feeling. I mean, I think that would be terrible. Yeah. It's heartbreaking. Yeah. And like, there's no leads. The biggest lead you have right now is the fiance being sketchy about the polygraph.

That's a pretty big lead. Yes, I agree. Yeah, I agree. But yeah, for her for her family, this is terrible. But her family felt sure that he had no involvement. Oh, well, they did not believe he had anything to do with it. So they felt like police were wasting time. Yes.

Looking into him when they should be searching for the real killer. And it sounds like maybe they still thought that she had just run off based on that statement. I don't think they really thought that. I think that was like they're like clinging to a little bit of hope. He goes on to say like the thing about the family being devastated and then they announce he announces that they've put together an award a reward not an award an award for best daughter oh jesus they've put together a reward you, people who are into true crime are messed up.

It's true. Jesus. So they come up with a $100,000 reward for the arrest and conviction of those responsible for her disappearance. Wow. And then they invite the public to attend a vigil for Jennifer at the church at the time the wedding was to take place oh gosh that's rough i think that's pretty dark but i mean if you already put the deposit down oh pretty you're not getting that deposit value this time do you think there was like one horrible bridesmaid who was like

i paid 300 probably i mean you got you got 14 fucking bridesmaid who was like, I paid $300 for this dress. I mean, you got 14 fucking bridesmaids. Surely there's one that doesn't know her that well. There's four. Right. There's for sure four. Because you run through the relatives. She's 32.

Let's face it. She's got three close friends. Max. Absolute max. Absolute max. Yes. No. There's some coworkers in there.

There's some like brothers, girlfriends. Yes. No, there's some co-workers in there. There's some. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Brothers, girlfriends. Anyway. Why am I focused on this so much? I don't know. OK, so he and the dads on Nancy Grace invites everybody to this vigil. Hours later. And the early morning hours of what was to be his wedding day, John Mason receives a phone call. Oh, shit. It was Jennifer. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Quit. Stop talking.

Come on. She told him that she'd been kidnapped and sexually assaulted, but was okay. And she gets off the phone with him and calls 911. In her 911 call, Wilbanks sounds frantic and confused, telling an operator that she was kidnapped from Atlanta by a man and a woman in their 40s who were driving a blue van. At one point during the 911 call, the operator asked Wilbanks if she knows what direction her captors went after dropping her off in Albuquerque. She's in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Whoa. And she says, I have no idea.

I don't even know where I am. I'm at a 7-Eleven. I have no idea how far away from Atlanta I am. Sure. I have no idea. I don't even know where I am. I'm at a 7-Eleven. I have no idea how far away from Atlanta I am. Sure. I have no idea. Authorities were able to trace the call to a pay phone at the 7-Eleven in Albuquerque and immediately rushed there to get her. They take her back to the police station. You know, she is frantic.

She's just been through this horrible thing over the last four days. She is tired. She's thirsty. She hasn't slept. And they sit her down and try and figure out what has happened. In her first account with the Albuquerque police, she told this horrible story of abduction and sexual assault by a Hispanic man with bad teeth and his heavyset white female companion.

She told investigators that she'd been abducted while jogging. I tried to do the same thing. I tried it again. From now on, stop telling me that I need new headphones. Stop telling me to quit jogging at night. Tell me that I'm going to get abducted. I am coining new terms here. Abducted is when you get abducted while jogging.

I feel like that happens enough. I know! How is there not a term for it? You heard it here first, folks. So she tells investigators that she was abducted while jogging in Duluth, Georgia. She was bound with rope in the back of a van before being raped by the Hispanic man and forced to perform sexual acts on the blonde woman. According to two officers reports, Wilbanks went into great detail about her position on the floor and the back of the van, her surroundings, including what she could

see out of the van windows and the music that was playing on the radio. What music? It was Spanish music of some kind. Okay. Next, the FBI comes in and she tells them the same story. The abduction, the sexual assault, and then she describes the couple in great detail. Mm-hmm. Things weren't quite adding up to the FBI, though. Jennifer's hair had been cut. Why? Yeah. And after abducting Jennifer, driving her across the United States, sexually assaulting her along the way, the couple had just decided to let her go at 7-11 it didn't make sense to them when pressed by the fbi on these issues jennifer's story quickly fell apart

this is i'm so glad you did this case this is the weirdest she recanted the entire sordid tale and admitted that feeling overwhelmed about the amount of stuff she had to get done for her upcoming nuptials. Oh, my God. That she had withdrawn $40 from her bank account and hopped on a Greyhound bus to Vegas. No. Oh. Yes. Never on a Greyhound bus.

Greyhound bus. Yes. Never on a Greyhound bus. Greyhound bus. The couple she had implicated and described in great detail for investigators were actually people she'd met on the fucking bus. That is so mean. Yes. That is just, I hate it when people are like, this horrible thing happened and the guy had a tattoo of a dragon. And it's like, no, don't do that to some innocent person.

Or have them out looking for someone who matches that okay anyway so after she got to vegas she hopped on another bus to albuquerque and after finding herself broke hungry and tired in albuquerque she made the decision to call her fiance and the police with the abduction story oh my gosh she cut her hair so no one would recognize her but she gave no indication that she had watched news reports or of the search or realized the magnitude of the situation she'd what yeah um after the police reported the hoax the mood outside the will banks home where the public had gathered to celebrate the news that jennifer had been found safe went from joyful to what the somber yeah family members ducked inside the house and closed the blinds

and well yeah volunteers from the search were pissed there was like this little um restaurant like right down the street from where jennifer lived and they had been providing like coffee and sandwiches to all the searchers for all this time and they're like what the fuck we will be sending you a bill really their quote said something more like and of course i didn't fucking write it down like this how could you do such a selfish act and not think about how this would impact other people yeah of course yeah um they the family later made a statement and expressed relief that she was safe. Sure. Um, their, um, the Reverend Alan Jones, who was supposed to perform their wedding, made this statement.

Sure. We were all disappointed. Maybe a little embarrassed. But you know what? If you remember all the interviews we gave yesterday, we were praying, at this point, let her be a runaway bride. So God was faithful. Jennifer's alive. And we're all thankful for that.

You know what? That's a pretty good point. It is. It really is. Yeah. All we wanted was for her to be alive and safe. And guess what? She's alive and safe.

Yep. Jones went on to say that the family had no idea that Wilbanks had fears about the wedding. And he believed she, quote, probably had no clue how it had been blown out of proportion while she was traveling across the country. I think she should have had a clue. I think she should have had a clue, too. And I don't know that blown out of proportion while she was traveling across the country. I think she should have had a clue. I think she should have had a clue, too. And I don't know that blown out of proportion is the right term either, because that's exactly the response I'd like

if I go fucking missing. Yeah, I wouldn't want everybody to be like, she's fine. She probably just got on a bus. I think there's $40 missing from this bank account. Then he said Mason had no hostility toward his fiance. Oh, come on. I have never met such a strong person in all my life.

He's an incredible man. Okay. So this is where my mind goes when he makes that statement. Was he in on it? He refuses to take a polygraph. So this is where my mind goes when he makes that statement. Uh-huh. Was he in on it? He refuses to take a polygraph. Oh. And then feels no ill will toward her when he finds out she just fucking took off.

But he's not the one saying, I have no ill will toward her. It's the minister, right? The minister is saying that that is what he has said. You know, part of me just feels like that's some good-hearted bullshit. Right. That's what you say, and that I'm just so glad that she's safe.

You know, we will get through this. We're a strong couple. Well, I'm trying to think if Norman had done that to me. No, I'd be so fucking pissed i'd be telling every paper like no charge his bitch ass with something see i don't know that i feel like i would be like norman i'm really glad you're safe and then yeah but there wouldn't be like so what should what do you want for dinner? No, it would be, we're done here.

You put me in a position where I was the number one suspect. They stayed together. Oh, man. He did not leave her. Okay, but going back to this idea that maybe he was in on it, what would the motive have been? I have no idea. They didn't make any money from it, right? No, but maybe he didn't want to be.

Maybe neither of them were. Maybe this huge wedding was their family's thing, and they didn't want this. And so they, that night, were like. This was their solution? We're going to, yeah. I mean, I don't know. we're gonna yeah i mean i don't know i just cannot his the place where his mind is where he's like has no l well towards her it's so vastly different from where my fucking brain would be there's no way there's no way

i can understand they stay together kristin was she hot no you don't remember what she looks no i don't remember she's like those fucking giant yes i do remember for some reason you gave me those eyes and i put that in in my mind with runaway bride. Yes. I tell you what, she didn't need a haircut. She needed like some of those glasses with the eyeballs on the front. So it's interesting that you say that.

Because her eyes were so alarming that Dr. Sanjay Gupta made a comment later on that he believed maybe she was suffering from Graves disease, which I can speak to. I have Graves disease and your eyes are very normal. My eyes are very normal. But when I was really sick, when I, before I was first diagnosed, I had one eye that was slightly bigger than the other because I started to demonstrate, but because my Graves disease, because I had my thyroid removed and my Graves' disease is dormant, I no longer have the eye symptoms.

Wow. So were you just looking in the mirror one day? Yeah, and I was like, why does my eye look like that? It was exactly like, I don't see anything. Yeah, at first, but then it became pretty. Yeah. It's kind of like a pimple where he's like being a good husband, like, oh, I don't see a thing.

And then finally it's like, okay, maybe we need he's like being a good husband like yeah and then finally it's like okay maybe we need to get a doctor involved yeah yeah lucky for me my eyes look totally normal now you've mentioned that several times you do have beautiful eyes i must say they are not bulging out at me at all it's a one bit. It's good stuff. But a symptom of Graves' disease is extreme anxiety. Oh. The overactive thyroid causes extreme anxiety. So there's something to that.

Wow. Maybe she did have it. Yeah. What are the other symptoms? Anything relevant? Well, she, like like so super high metabolism she only weighed 120 pounds at 5 8 yeah when you said that i was like i was like holy shit when i read that yeah yes yeah yeah she's very skinny yeah so maybe okay anyway let's get back to the story because that was just a comment a doctor made who has never evaluated her.

Are you trying to say he's not an expert? Who are we to say someone's not an expert? I believe Dr. Sanjay Gupta is an expert. But not in her house. But not in her. Yes. Not about her. Okay.

So. I love this case, by the way. Thank you for doing it. You're welcome. Okay. Not about her. Okay. So... I love this case, by the way. Thank you for doing it. You're welcome. Okay. So she's been found. The, you know, the reverend makes this statement about how, you know, the family is a little bit embarrassed, but ultimately this is what we wanted.

And then Duluth Mayor Shirley Fanning Lassiter had this to say. We're absolutely delighted that this young woman is alive and has not been hurt. And the worst has not happened. But everyone is very emotional. Emotional. And has many different emotions about the deceptions and untruths. You know who she sounds like? To me, she sounds like

Michael Scott in the office giving a speech. So, everyone has emotions and is emotional about the deceptions and untruths. So many emotions. We all have them. There's a variety of them.

And just the thought of her mother and what her mother has gone through these last three days makes me want to cry. Which I agree with. That's also an emotion. That is an emotion. She had emotions. You have emotions. We all have emotions everybody

poops everybody has emotions let me write down that book idea real fast so jennifer was safe she'd just been stressed which is all well and good except for the fact that the city of duluth had spent somewhere between sixty thousand,000 and $100,000 searching for someone who was never missing. Yeah. This is where I expect you to get pissed. Oh, yes. Isn't it funny?

It's the money. It's the money that gets to me. It's like, you wasted people's time. You wasted public resources. Yes. Shame on you. That's right. So authorities in Duluth weighed the decision on whether or not to seek criminal charges against her.

In the meantime, in what some called an effort to avoid charges, Jennifer admitted herself to a medical treatment center. A statement released. Was it a salon and day spa a statement released by her family's church said she'd entered the facility to quote address physical and mental issues which she believes played a major role in her running from herself the family spokesman said she was dealing with issues the family didn't know she had whatever the fuck that means um well if they were all truly surprised by this runaway which sounds like they were yeah i'd be like yeah i thought i knew her i don't know what the fuck

was going on with her i thought being in the bridal party meant that we knew each other. Turns out I'm just a distant acquaintance. If entering the treatment center was a ploy to get out of charges, though, it didn't work. Because on May 25th, 2005, a Gwinnett County grand jury indicted her on charges of lying to the police she was charged with one misdemeanor count of falsely reporting a crime carrying a possible penalty of a year in jail and one count of making a false statement to a government agency a felony punishable of up to five years in jail are we about to get some justice i wouldn't bet on it don't get me all excited you know how i love justice on june 2nd accompanied by her fiance

and wearing what appeared to be her engagement ring so they're still fucking together jennifer will banks pleaded no contest to making false statements to the police a felony as part of a plea agreement the prosecution dropped the misdemeanor charge and jennifer received two years of probation judge ronnie k bachelor of gwinnett county superior court also sentenced miss will banks to 120 hours of community service she also was required to continue her mental health treatment and reimburse the gwinnett county sheriff's department two thousand five hundred and fifty dollars what that's like nothing no it's nothing i don't know how they came to that amount separate from the criminal case she also agreed to pay the city of

duluth thirteen thousand two hundred forty nine dollars and nine cents um which amounted to like the overtime pay that the city had to pay the searchers who worked overtime to find her. Still not fucking enough. No. $13,249.09. That's a used car. Yes. Wait, no.

So this was in 2005? So what would that be in today's dollars? Oh, wait, did you not look it up? So rude. At the hearing, Jennifer said in a brief statement, Your Honor, I'm truly sorry for my actions. Brief statement. Your Honor, I'm truly sorry for my actions.

I just want to thank Gwinnett County and the city of Duluth for all of their efforts. I mean, yeah, you better be thinking, folks. Now, I'm going to include this next part because this is a fucking court podcast. And there wasn't that much court stuff. So part of the probation agreement was that if she successfully completed her probation, her criminal record on the case would be sealed to the public. What? Yes. Why? So there's a law in Georgia, the First Offender Act, which allows a court to suspend proceedings or expunge the record of a defendant who has not previously been convicted of a felony. Okay.

I don't think that's a bad rule on the face of it. Except when you hear this next part. Oh. So let me tell you that rule that law again okay so they can suspend proceedings for a defendant or expunge the record under the georgia's first offender act for a defendant who has not previously been convicted of a felony in 1990 well in the 1990s sorry will banks was arrested three times on shoplifting charges and one of those charges was a fucking felony in that case she was accused of helping friends steal one thousand seven hundred and forty dollars in merchandise over

nine months from an express store where she worked. What? Yes. That's a lot of express. Yeah. That charge was dropped after she completed a pre-trial diversion program and performed 75 hours of community service. She already got her get out of jail free card you don't get it again this is bullshit nope i feel like that's a fucking terrible loophole she's already gotten

a get out of jail free card i'm gonna say it again she doesn't get a second one wait now what she got a jail free card kristin which is a Monopoly reference in case you've never played it. I'm quite good at Monopoly. She did not pass go. She did not collect $200, but she got out of fucking jail. Yeah, that's not cool at all. I think it's really fucked up. I like the rule because I think sometimes people do mess up.

I agree. But if you've already gotten. Yeah. You know, she's's only did she already get her she only doesn't have a felony charge because she used some other crazy rule to get out of it i'm fired up about i was gonna say i don't know that i've ever seen you well last week when we talked about the mona lisa theft you were pretty you got pretty fired up then i get pretty fired up about theft apparently stabbings that's fine not so much murder okay you steal i fucking draw the line you steal some button downs from express and brandy is gonna come after you that's right so is it a button down or a button up it's a button up

it's either. Okay. It's interchangeable. You go either way. You know, everybody puts their pant legs on at the same time. What? I think I fucked that side. You did. It's one leg at a time.

Do you jump into your pants? Do you jump into your pants? I'm picturing you standing in front of a pair of parachute pants and you just jump into them. So I gather them on the floor. I have to wiggle them down so each pant leg is exactly where it needs to be. And then yes, I jump into them and pull them up. And as you said, we all do it that way. Yeah, this is not how everyone does it. We all jump into our pants, both legs at the same time.

What simultaneously I think is how the phrase goes. That's how it should go. Back to this fucking deal that I'm so pissed about. So in that original case in the 90s where she got diversion and then didn't have a fucking felony on the record. Linda Sartain was the district attorney who offered and approved that deal. She's now Will Banks' defense lawyer. Oh my God. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. Will Banks went on to complete her probation without issue and presumably her record was sealed accordingly. Blah, blah, blah. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

But the silver lining is that this case got so much media attention. Yeah, it doesn't matter that it's sealed. It doesn't matter that it's sealed, exactly. They might as well. Anybody who's seen those crazy eyes do not know. Okay.

This is yet another moment where the podcast is not serving us well. You guys need video of Brandi looking at you with the crazy Charles Manson eyes. I believe I'm doing crazy Jennifer Wilbanks eyes, Kristen. Interchangeable. They're very similar to the crazy Charles Manson eyes. They both jump into their pants.

Both legs at the same time. Just like the rest of us. That's right. That's nuts. This is some sad news. By May of 2006, 2006, Will Banks and Mason had ended their relationship. Well, turns out they weren't meant to be, if you can believe it. That poor guy.

I know, I feel terrible for him. Especially because I didn't remember this case very well, and initially I was like, he did it. He fucking did it. That poor guy. Well, yeah, because I don't know that anybody knows her by her name. Everybody knows her as the runaway bride. Yeah. That was planned that I didn't give you that information.

Thank you. You're brilliant. In September of 2006, Will Banks was back in court. What? Suing her former fiance, John Mason, for half a million dollars. What? She claimed that while she was hospitalized and under medication after returning to Atlanta, Mason obtained power of attorney over her, allowing him to handle her finances.

I think that's a pretty normal thing when someone's long-term going to be in a facility of some kind. Right. But she claimed with that power of attorney, he had made a $500,000 deal with a publisher in New York for the couple to tell their story. They got a book deal. Then Mason used that money, that $500,000, to buy a house. Uh-huh.

And when they broke up, he evicted her from the house because it was only in his name. Right, because they weren't married yet um okay well that to me explains why they stayed together yes um he saw his payday coming yeah so she was seeking 250 000 for for her portion of the house portion that's for her portion of the house. Portion. That's for her portion. I hope you guys are writing these down. Because we're not. And then another $250,000 in punitive damages. I feel like... What do you think Mason did?

Oh, I hadn't even thought that far ahead. I was just thinking, I feel like when you do that to somebody you owe them something and so i feel like she should have well mason counters okay okay saying that he was owed money um for the emotional distress of being left at the altar fair fair ultimately both withdrew their suits and went their own separate ways yeah both are now married to other people who married her um some guy i just can't imagine

um i'd be like you're not gonna go anywhere are you let you let me let you inside my creepy mind for a moment okay are you ready are you scared to have a flashlight i too was curious who married her so i facebook stalked her last night i wouldn't have asked if i wasn't talking to you you you know, anybody else. His name is Greg something or other, and he owns a landscaping company in Atlanta. Okay. He's been married twice before. Oh, boy. So, but it doesn't look like either of them have any children.

I could not find John Mason and his new wife, who I believe is named Sherry. Couldn't find them on Facebook anywhere. John Mason, too common of a name. Wow. Sherry couldn't find them on Facebook anywhere John Mason too common of a name yeah wow this case was huge when it happened I remember her crazy eyes on the cover of every tabloid do not make those eyes again okay don't and not only that but I don't know if you remember this. What? She got her own doll.

A company made a doll after her. What? So it was an action figure company, made a doll of her, and a shirt that said, like, Vegas or bus or, like, Viva Las Vegas or something on it. And then I don't know if you remember the footage of when, after it had been announced that she was a hoax and she flew back to Atlanta from Albuquerque, there was this very famous scene of like all these news cameras around

her. And she's got this blanket over her head. She's being ushered through the airport. The doll came with a matching blanket to put over the doll's head. Was this offered exclusively at Spencer's Gifts? Probably. That's ridiculous. It also brought about a hot sauce that had a really catchy slogan about...

Let me see if I can find that real fast. catchy slogan about let me see if i can find that real fast oh the shirt said vegas baby on the doll by the way um okay so the um hot sauce was called jennifer's high tail and hot sauce and featured a picture of her on the label and featured a picture of her on the label. And then the two years after this case, the Albuquerque Police Department used this story as a marketing campaign to hire people for the police department. They put up a big billboard of the actual, it was like a picture of the actual police officer that came and picked her up from the 7-Eleven handcuffing a woman in a wedding dress.

It said something to the effect of like, running away from your current job, apply at the Albuquerque Police Department. That's amazing. Yeah. That's the case of the runaway bride oh that's so good i love it i love it okay now i don't know if i'm mistaking this for some other runaway bride thing but didn't she take like her ipod or something on the run? And when they found it, it seemed like it had been staged with the headphones. Oh, no, that's a different case. Okay. Sounds like a brandy case. I don't mean to give you ideas for future cases, but that's the one I was thinking of. Yeah, that's a different case.

Yeah. Okay. Yep. Oh, my God. That was nuts. That was absolutely nuts. I knew you'd be fired up about the two years probation and only having to pay back $13,000. I'm starting to get a little numb to it. The balloon boy case, I was just floored.

So angry. So angry. So angry that my sister called me and was like, wow, you got really fired up about that one. It just made me so mad. Sometimes we don't know the things that are going to fire us up, like this fucking loophole thing. I was so pissed about that. When I read that and I was like typing this up, I was like, are you fucking kidding me? I think it's funny. I think we're learning about ourselves because I would have never guessed that these would be the little things that would set us off.

But clearly. Do you feel like we're turning this into a hoax podcast, Kristen? If we are, I'm not mad about it. I really love a good hoax story. If we are, I'm not mad about it. I really love a good hoax story. If you also enjoy a hoax or a murder or a penis pill scandal, then thanks for listening. You've clearly found your home in our podcast.

Welcome, weirdos. Welcome, weirdos. You are with your people. Now, thanks for listening. We appreciate it. I feel like we've kind of turned a corner where we're starting to get listeners who aren't just our close friends and family. And man, is it exciting. It is so exciting.

It's been really exciting to see the response that we're getting as we get, you know, kind of further into this podcast venture. Yeah. Yeah. Loving it. So if you like it too, tell your friends about it. Like us on Facebook. Follow us on Twitter. Let's go to court is our Twitter handle.

We have an Instagram lgtc podcast and uh if you want to you know send us over a love note you know lgt podcast at gmail.com lgtc what did i say lgt podcast well fuck let's go to podcast podcast no if you have ideas for us yeah it's been fun to get episode ideas. Episode ideas, yeah. If you have a crazy case that you want to know more about or that you think is just worth other people hearing, send it on over at lgtcpodcast

at gmail.com Join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics podcast adjourned and now for a note about our process i read a bunch of stuff then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary and i copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes wikipedia so we owe a huge thank you to the real experts for this episode i got And sometimes Wikipedia. CNN, Fox News, CBS, and the New York Times. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.