Let's Go To Court! - 166: An Office Romance & a Terrible Fall

Episode Date: March 24, 2021

As far as 911 calls went, this one was strange. An anonymous woman claimed that her neighbor, whose name she didn’t know, had been attacked by a man. Then she hung up. When the dispatcher called back, she realized that the “neighbor” had called from a pay phone outside a fast food restaurant. But when police arrived on the scene, they quickly realized that the caller had been onto something. Anna Lisa Raymundo, an ivy-league educated research scientist, lay dead in her entryway. She’d been stabbed multiple times and beaten over the head. Her condo showed signs of a violent struggle with her attacker. Then Brandi tells us about a woman who died tragically while taking down party lights from a tree. When investigators arrived at the home of Louis Mahony and Lainie Coldwell, it seemed clear that Lainie had fallen off a ladder, to her death. But she was only injured on the back of her head. The rest of her body was unharmed. As time passed, it seemed less and less likely that Lainie’s death was an accident.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: Vengeance: Killer Coworkers episode, “Obsession at the office”  “Sheila Davalloo,” entry on Murderpedia.com “Big pharma researcher stabs romantic rival to death, then tries to kill husband,” by Benjamin H. Smith on oxygen.com An episode of Killer Women with Piers Morgan “Wife guilty of trying to kill husband,” by Jonathan Bandler for The Journal News In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Ex-cop staged freak accident to cover up brutal murder” by Gail Shortland, The Mirror “R v Mahony” Queensland Judgements “'I could put my fist into back of her head': Attending nurse” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Murder trial: Clothes iron 'very good fit' with head wound” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Partner discovered murder accused having affair after STD” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Lainie Coldwell was leaving her husband, murder trial hears” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Murder accused was 'ranting and raving': Court hears” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Murder accused changed story at de facto wife's wake” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Accused killer had colleagues lie to claim wife's $2m” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Accused wife killer had secret sex tryst in Sydney” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Accused killer's laptop had 'accidental deaths' search” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Murder trial: Human movement expert doubts tree fall death” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Why would Louis kill Lainie at home? Barrister asks” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Accused wife killer manipulated investigators, Crown claims” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily “Ex-policeman sentenced to life for murdering de-facto wife” by Peter Hardwick, Sunshine Coast Daily     YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 19+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about office romances.

And I'll be talking about a terrible fall. Are you covering the staircase? No. Oh, God damn it! You want to tell the people about how you were trying to be a sneaky little sneak sneak just now? Oh, well, I was, you know, reading our intro page like I always do. And then down here, you still have your sources in from the bonus episode that we just recorded. And I was like, excuse me. Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Because sometimes it's better to be right than nice, Crystal. Which is the opposite of what Bluey taught us. Well. Don't make me tell you that, Bluey. Oh, I won't allow it. I won't allow it. I know how you roll, you weirdo. tell you that bluey episode? Oh, I won't allow it. I won't allow it. I know how you roll.

You weirdo. You like to look at my sources ahead of time. Just so you don't get a little peek at what we're looking at. You know what I think it is? What? I think you want to glean some information. From your sources? Yeah. How revealing are your sources?

Sources can be extremely revealing. We sometimes include the title of articles. What do you think happens based on my sources here, Kristen? Well, I don't know because you didn't watch a show called like Death by Snoo Snoo. What's a Snoo Snoo? It's a Futurama reference. I don't know. I didn't even watch this show.

By the way, okay, this is sort of a genius plug for our Patreon, but also a real question, which is what makes this integration so good and authentic, and which is why our podcast is so beloved. That's right. The authenticity is just dripping off of us, even though we were put together by Lou Pearlman. Anyway, so. We have so many coordinated dances.

I know. We're terrible singers, but we can dance with chairs. That's right. The coolest thing was when the Backstreet Boys would dance with their chairs. Okay, don't even talk to me about the Backstreet Boys. It was NSYNC all the way. Why couldn't you? They did a lot of, like, hip thrusting and, like, you know, arm movement.

I know, arm thrusting. It was an elbow thrust to the side and then to the other side. Okay, I feel like I was a real groundbreaking preteen because I liked them both. Okay. Anyway, what were you bringing up? This started as you asking me a question. And the question was, did you sneak a Mary Poppins reference

into the bonus episode? I sure fucking did. And I didn't even notice. Well, it just went right by you. What the hell? What was that? Context. You legit thought I was just saying weird shit

and you're like, well, it's just another day with Brandy. This is, now I'm getting paranoid because there have been a couple times where you say stuff, and I'm like, whatever, man. And then it turns out to be something that's gone way over my head. What was it? In your case, your gentleman wrote a letter to his fiduciaries. And then we were talking about what a fun word fiduciary is. And I said, Fidelity Fiduciary Bank, which is the name of the bank in Mary Poppins.

Fidelity Fiduciary Bank. Thanks. Yeah. All right. All right. You know what? I need to be more careful because about once or twice an episode, you say something and I'm like, sure. I'm kind of like, sometimes I treat you like you're a crazy old lady at a bus stop.

Right. I know. And I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, bye-bye. Okay.

Okay. Have a great day now. Except I keep talking to you. That's right. Well, bye-bye. Okay. Okay, have a great day now. Except I keep talking to you. That's right. Anyway, you could hear that reference on our latest bonus episode. Oh, there we go. There's that smooth transition. Is it a bonus episode?

Yes, it's a bonus episode. No, that was the most recent actual episode. No, that was bonus episode. No, it was the regular episode. It was last week's episode. Shit. This was the bonus episode. No, it was the regular episode. It was the last recent episode. This is the worst ad for our Patreon ever.

That was just a regular episode. Well, everyone, I'll have you know that we recently recorded a bonus episode. We did. See, that's the problem, is that we did just record the bonus episode. It's just not been released yet. I'll tell you, folks, we're a little loopy.

The weeks where we record two of these meaty boys, we are wound a little tight. We have been laughing at each other's jokes just nonstop. And Norman has not laughed once. Norman is not a fan of us at all right now. We got lunch and Norm asked me, Norm asked, is it delivery? And Brandy said, I think it's DiGerno's.

And she and I died laughing and Norman just looked like he wanted to die. He didn't know that we were funny at all. So that's the kind of episode you're in store for today.

I hope you guys are ready. And if you want some more of it, you head on over to the Patreon at the $5 level. We've got bonus episodes. What do we have, 21 over there? About to be 21, yeah. Oh my gosh, oh, 21. We just recorded our 21st bonus. It can buy a drink now.

They grow up so fast. They sure do. They grow up so fast. They sure do. What's the drink you start with? Something real sweet. Just like... Mixed hard lemonade? Sex on the beach?

Oh, yeah. Oh, God. Yeah, we're making cases. Something real juice heavy, probably. Pina Colada? Yeah. Getting caught in the rain. Yeah.

Anyway, also at the $5 level... I like making love at midnight. No, you don't. Did you ask? No. You complained earlier this week that your daughter stayed up to 1130 and you were like, it was terrible. Terrible.

I was so tired. By the time I made love at midnight, I was just wiped. Exhausted. At the $5 level, anyway. At the $5 level, you get those bonus episodes. You get into the Discord to chitty chat the day away. The $7 level, you get all that. Plus, you get inducted onto this very podcast. What?

You get bonus videos. Oh my gosh. You get a sticker with our goddamn autograph on the card. Oh my gosh. Stop. I can't handle anymore. Alright, I will stop because that's all you get at that level. At the $10 level. There's a whole other level? My God, the levels.

Like a set of stairs. Three of them. That's the Bob Moss level. Let me tell you what happens at that level. First. I don't know if they can handle it. Okay, well, first your teeth get whiter. Okay.

It just happens. Your hair gets shinier, more manageable, thicker. Unless your hair's too thick already, then it's not quite as thick anymore. It lays perfectly. The second you enter that credit card info, you will achieve a full body orgasm. A full body orgasm? I don't know what that means. But I'm pretty sure that's what we guarantee.

Also, I don't know if you're interested in this. You get episodes a day early, ad free. Also, 10% off on merch. Oh, my gosh. Sweating over here. There's so much. That's the full body orgasm. Oh!

I'm so confused. Brandi did not get good sex ed. That's that Kansas public school stuff. Do you remember some of the stuff we were talking about? Abstinence is the only way! Yep. Do you remember the hula hoop? No. Okay, this is totally

off topic, obviously. Obviously. But in sociology class in high school, a woman, a guest speaker was brought in and she started telling us about condoms. She made it sound like, honestly, OK, what I took away from it was don't even bother with condoms because they're so ineffective. So obviously that's the opposite of what she wanted. But she was like, you know, they have these little holes in them so often.

And then she brought out a hula hoop. And she said, this represents... Your vagina? No! And she just started throwing bananas through it. And I was personally offended. That's a very confusing message. No, she said...

Very confusing message. No, she's not. Get out! This is a family podcast, Brandi. Lots of people listen to this for their sex ed, and here I am trying to tell them something important. Okay, what does the hula hoop represent? So the woman said that the hula hoop represented like a zoom in on a little hole in a condom that happens all the time when they're manufactured. Okay, then we're not done.

Then she took a tennis ball and she goes, this represents a sperm. And then she just easily went right through the hula hoop. So her point was made. I took sociology in high school. Never had this woman as a guest speaker. You didn't? No. Okay, I do remember, because our sociology teacher was really good.

Yeah. And he was not a nut. Yeah. And I remember looking at him in this Yeah. And he was not a nut. Yeah. And I remember looking at him in this thing and he looked a little uncomfortable. Maybe it was because he was learning something, too. He was like, my God, these hula hoops and tennis balls. He's like, you know what this presentation needs? Bananas.

No, she would have been against that. Abstinence is the only solution, Brandy. The only solution. I mean, you have a child now, so obviously I've come to you too late with this. Exactly. That ship has sailed. But you have no idea how she got here, so. No.

It's immaculate conception. Anyway. All right. All right. All right. You ready for this? You ready for some office romance? I am ready for office romance. Did you ever have an office romance?

No. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to offend you. I've never worked in an office. You get the idea, though. Work. All right. Okay, so here's the deal.

I hid my sources from you. Have you ever had an office romance? You ever bang anybody on a coffee? Ew. Coffee. Coffee machine. Okay, so here's the deal. Have you had an office romance? You ever bang anybody on a coffee? Coffee machine. Ever bang anybody on a coffee maker, Kristen? And it was uncomfortable. You'll be picking grounds out of your asshole for weeks.

No. No. Nah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Okay. Been with the normster for a long time. That's the thing.

That is the thing. No time for office romances when you've got Norman Caruso, the gaming historian, in your life. That's right. I'm sorry. I don't mean to brag. I don't want to make people upset because they're not married to Norman. They should be. He's pretty amazing.

But is he still alive? I think he's in the backyard. Anyway. You hid your sources because? Because you're a sneaky sneak, and you like to look ahead. I'm a sleuth. Yes.

But amazingly, not a very good one because I was able to just not input them. So I watched two TV shows for this, read some articles, all right. Oh, that's right. But I'm not going to. Okay, you gave me a little hint. What?

When we recorded the bonus episode that you watched a show you were not a fan of. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I was not. Mm-hmm. And now two days. Like an HLN original maybe? I'm afraid so, ma'am.

Mm-hmm. Two days later, I have watched two shows I was not a fan of. Oh, no. Okay, so it's been a rough time in my household. Okay, you ready for this? So anyway, I'm not telling you the names of the shows because they did the thing where, like, I tell you the name of the show, you know exactly what happened. All right. But I'll save it for the end.

What if they put a question mark at the end? Then we'd be wondering. Mm. Right? Murdered in a bathtub? Question mark? Question mark? Like a really long title.

Was she murdered in a bathtub or did her husband convince her to get plastic surgery so that he could murder her with a bunch of pills? I mean, is that what happened? I don't know. Is that what happened? I don't know. Is that what happened? Okay. We're in Stanford, Connecticut. Why did you say it like that? Because you're not the only one who can have inside jokes with the listeners and just go

way over your head. Is it from the office? Home to Josh Porter's branch of Dunder Mifflin. Or the poor man's Michael Scott, as he is known around my condo. It was 12.13 p.m. on November 8, 2002, when a call came in to 911. The dispatcher said,

Stanford Police. Hello? That's what the dispatcher said, Stanford Police. Hello. That's what the dispatcher said? Hello. Really? Yeah. Did you listen to this? Yes.

Hello. Yes. Okay, that's really weird. It's super weird. I hated it. And a panicked woman said, yes, hello. I think a guy has attacked my neighbor. I saw a guy go into her apartment.

The woman didn't know her neighbor's name, but she was able to provide an address. 123 Harborview, apartment 105. Do not look it up because it's bullshit. Okay. Well, it's a fake address. One, two, three seemed a little too convenient. Actually, it is one, two, three. Hang on.

Just hang on. So the dispatcher knew immediately that the woman had misspoken. The area she'd named was a commercial area. There weren't any apartments near there. So the dispatcher was trying to process this and wondering what area the woman might mean, and she said, Okay, what is... You don't know if...

Hello? Hello? Really? Yes, she did it twice. It was weird. That is super weird. The call had been disconnected, so the dispatcher tried calling back.

But instead of getting someone's home phone or cell phone, she realized that she was calling a payphone located outside a fast food restaurant. Which fast food restaurant? Duchess. Never heard of it. Did you burp as you realized? It's like a hiccup.

Never heard of it. No, I think it you realized you knew? It's like a hiccup. Never heard of it. No, I think it's, you know. East Coast-y? It's East Coast nonsense. But I lived on the East Coast. I'd never heard of Dutchess. Dutchess? Yeah, look it up.

Look it up. I'm going to. Is there a T in there? Mm-hmm. Fast? There's no T, by the way. Oh, really? Well, sorry.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Fast? There's no T, by the way. Oh, really? Well, sorry. Yeah. Fast food Connecticut chain in South... It's only in Southwestern Connecticut. Wow, okay. That explains it. Story checks out. It's based in Milford, Connecticut. All right.

I don't know what they serve. Good food fast, I'm guessing. Did you write their slogan? I sure did. Hot dogs and hamburgers. All right. I'm not that excited about it. Okay.

All right. Probably why it hasn't expanded. There was an incident at one, May 31st, 1981. Oh, well, okay. Hey, hey, let's just stick to the cases we prepared for this episode today. All right. As it turned out, this dispatcher who couldn't say hello in a normal way to save her life was actually pretty good at her job. Hello.

Hello. It was so disarming. Yeah, that's super weird. Ma'am, you're at work. Yes. Do you want to go on about the guy who wore the zip-up jacket at the courtroom again? I was very upset about that. I know you were.

Would you show up to a court of law in a zip-up hooded sweatshirt? Really? For real? Am I being ridiculous about this? It wouldn't bother me. I wouldn't have thought anything of it. Are you kidding me? No.

You would show up to a court of law. A court of law. A murder trial. You're going to testify in a murder trial in a zip up hooded sweatshirt? I wouldn't. But I wouldn't think anything else. I wouldn't think anything of it if someone else did. I would think a lot of other things.

If I'm on a jury, I'm like, really? We're supposed to take a hooded sweatshirt man seriously? He didn't take us seriously. He could have dusted off some slacks and a nice button down. He had a button down on. Yeah, which made it weirder that he put a zip up sweatshirt over the top of it. Why not just take off that zip up? Maybe it was chilly in there and he had hard nips.

It doesn't matter. And he thought that was inappropriate. Maybe. Okay. All right. He went to the bathroom. Okay. Before he was supposed to take the stand.

Sure. And he was like, okay, I'm going to take my zip-up jacket off. And he took it off. And he had a white button-up on, right? And in the mirror, in the bathroom, under that lighting, the harsh lighting. Yeah. Nip City. Nip City.

And so he was like, okay, I can't go into a court of law with Nip City. So he's like, I better put my sweatshirt back on. Which would you prefer, Kristen? I mean, how visible are the nips? Super visible. They are hard and the shirt is nearly see-through. He should have worn an undershirt is what you're saying.

And that's what he didn't realize it until he was in the bathroom right before he was prepared to take the stand. You know what I hate about this? You'd pick the sweatshirt, right? I'm starting to feel for the man who

testified in a hooded sweatshirt. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I bet his nips were visible. I doubt they were. I sincerely doubt they were. Sir, let us know.

Were your nips hard that day? So this dispatcher was actually very good at her job, despite the fact that she couldn't say hello correctly. And she figured, OK, that Dutchess restaurant is pretty close to the Palmer Landing condos, which are located on Harbor Drive. Oh, that's the big. So one, two, three, Harbor Drive. Right.

Right. Apartment 105. So she sent officers to that address, hoping she'd guessed correctly. So officers showed up at the Palmer Landing Condominium building, which, according to the TV show I watched, is a very high-end building. But when I tried to go to their website, the only thing that popped up was a spam ad for Viagra. Oh. Brandy. Viagra.

Oh. Brandy, did you know that fast slash pharmacy slash 24.com will offer you 93% off Viagra? I did not. And 66% off Viagra Super Active. What is that? They also sell female Viagra, flavored Viagra, Viagra Jelly, and I am not making this up, Viagra Soft. What is Viagra

Soft? What's that for? That's for when you have too many boners? Got your uppers, got your downers. I just think some of these sound a little too good to be true. Why would you need your Viagra flavored? I was about to say that.

What do I need it flavored for? And what is super active? Well, I think if I'm going to guess, I think it's just a marketing thing. I'm guessing. I bet it's no more effective than the regular Viagra. It's a placebo effect. Well, I mean, if you have the placebo effect, then that's good. Yeah.

Unless it lasts for four hours or more. Well, that's no placebo. So what we know about this place, other than the fact that they let their website domain lapse, is that it's located right on the water, and it's a nice place. So officers showed up at the condo, and they knocked and didn't hear anything, and they opened the front door. And what they saw was horrifying. A woman lay dead in the entryway, covered in blood.

She'd been hit in the head multiple times, stabbed multiple times in the face, chest, and neck. The entryway was in total disarray. She'd clearly struggled with her attacker. It was just a mess. A potted plant was knocked to the ground. A laundry basket was overturned. Papers were everywhere. There was broken glass.

There was a 10-pound dumbbell covered in blood and hair. Gosh. Oh. Okay, now we're getting to the part why I didn't like the show I watched. If you're wondering why this might have happened, I took the liberty of typing up a very insightful quote from a journalist who was featured on the TV show. She said, she said, you have to be angry with someone or have some real deep feelings to kill someone that maliciously. Boy, that clears things up.

Like, no shit. My God, this woman was horribly, horribly killed. Like, obviously it's personal. Can we just skip that part of these dumb shows? Like, yeah, of course it's personal. Maybe there could be like a button that's like, have you ever seen any true crime, anything ever? Yes, yes, and then... And then you get like any true crime, anything ever? Yes. And then you get like a version that skips all of that.

And all your episodes are like 15 minutes shorter than everyone else's. It's like, OK, I know if someone was brutally murdered. It's not just oopsies, a robbery gone wrong. Whoopsies fed stripes. What else would be fast forwarded? When they talk about like processing the scene, like we know all of that. Yeah. Cell phone stuff.

Yeah. We had to look at the husband. Yep. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All the red herring stuff, they just tossed that out. They couldn't skip past the husband because it's always the husband who did it. It's always the husband, yeah. All right.

All right. Okay. So there's some flaws in our little button that we're creating. There is. All right. All right. Okay. So there's some flaws in our little button that we're creating. There is. Officers also noticed a trail of blood that led away from the woman's body into the bathroom. They noticed a droplet of blood on the sink.

Judging from the scene, it looked like the victim had opened the door, maybe to someone she knew, and was just immediately and viciously attacked. And afterward, the attacker went to the bathroom to wash up. And the attacker hadn't taken anything from the condo. There was money in the victim's purse. There was a bunch of nice stuff in the home. So computers were left there, TVs. It didn't take long to determine that the victim was Annalisa Raimundo. She was 32.

She was a research scientist, and she was brilliant. She went to Harvard for undergrad, Columbia for graduate school, and after she got her degree, she stayed in Connecticut and went into pharmaceutical research. This woman was amazing. Wow. So she got this job at Purdue Pharma in downtown Stanford. And because you can apparently be pretty and smart, you should also know that Anna was gorgeous.

She had... Okay, stop me if you know what I'm saying. Because I feel like maybe some people won't. She had like long black hair. Yeah. Very shiny. Very healthy. Almost to the point that it looked blue in certain lights. You know what I mean? Okay, alright. hair. Yeah. Very shiny, very healthy. Almost to the point that it looked blue in certain lights. You know what I mean?

I do. Okay, all right. I'm glad. I'm glad. Anyway, I've always been envious of that. Oh, yeah. She was very close with her family. They had high expectations for her, and she had high expectations for herself.

Her parents immigrated to the United States from the Philippines and her dad Renato was a doctor and her mom Susan was a professional. A professional what? Exactly. So this show that I watched the guy said her dad was a doctor and her mom was a professional and I sat there like I'm sorry what the hell is a professional? So I, of course, found out what the mom did because I was like, hell no. Guess what the mom does and what was not mentioned here? She's, I don't know, probably something equally as impressive as a doctor. She is also a doctor. Really?

Uh-huh. Okay, that's stupid. That's some bullshit. Yeah. Anyway, she's some bullshit. Anyway. She's a doctor. Doctor. Professional doctor.

Professional doctor. As opposed to those unprofessional ones. Amateur doctors. So Annalisa had natural intelligence and a drive to succeed. And of course, she was great at her job. intelligence and a drive to succeed. And of course, she was great at her job. It didn't take her long to rise through the ranks at Purdue Pharma and hashtag get paid. So by the time, sorry, I'm trying to appeal to the kids. Oh, yeah. And it is working. Yes. A 20 year old was like, this is the podcast for me. This is super cutting edge. They know all the hip lingo they are saying pound sign this pound sign that

i bet these ladies have middle parts yeah yeah i bet they're wearing mom jeans and not because they're moms because they're cool yeah yeah will you ever no all right all right i'm gonna keep checking on you so by the time she was in her late 20s she had enough money to buy this nice waterfront condo. And she did. And Annalisa spent a ton of time at work. So naturally, she found love at work. She fell in love with a guy named Nelson Sessler.

One of the journalists referred to him as the office stud nelson sessler is the office stud i am totally with you brandy i the name is wrong for the office stud she said that everyone had a crush on on nelson sessler i this is how on the same wavelength we are. The next thing I have in this script, despite having an unattractive name, he had a very attractive face and body. Yeah, Nelson. No. Anyway. Okay.

Apologies to Nelson. Yeah. Yeah. And all Nelsons listening to this right now. Well, and I'm, I mean, Kristen's not a hot name. I'm just saying. Brandy's not a hot name. Brandy.

Are you kidding me? That's not a hot name. Brandy is too a hot name. Any, oh my God. Any woman's name that ends in an I or like the E sound. No. Yeah. No.

Brandy. Brandy is a hot name. No, it's not. It's so hot. You can't take it seriously. I can't even take you seriously sitting over there. It. No. Brandy. Brandy is a hot name. No, it's not. It's so hot, you can't take it seriously. I can't even take you seriously sitting over there. It's a trashy name. Trashy can be hot. How many?

Okay, I think we need to know. How many Brandys are podcasters? How many Brandys are exotic dancers? I feel like you're in the minority as a podcaster. Brandy, you can't deny. Brandy, Tiffany, Brittany, Ashley. Those are hot names. Those are hot girl names.

I don't think so. Yes, they are. Would you eat my ass for a bag of coffee? You are so full of shit. I'm making faces at you. Kristen's like the... What? I think Kristen's like the... What? I think Kristen's a hot girl name.

I don't think so. Oh, yeah. No, I think it's a very basic 80s name. No, no. Oh, no. No. Oh, no. Yeah, like Kristen's like, she's hot, but she knows she's hot.

And so she's like a little bit uppity. See, I think that you're just saying that because that's exactly how I am. Like, I know how great I look right now. Yeah. I got this top from Marshalls. Because I'm hot enough that I don't have to pay for name brand prices. Anyway, so Nelson, office stud, obviously super hot. This was your typical.

What's a hot girl name? Brandy. No. Okay. I know you don't want to hear it, but Brandy is like when you hear Brandy, you think, okay, yeah, she for sure looks good in a bikini. Like, yeah, Brandy is hot. No. Yes.

No. Yes. Anyone who ends in that E sound. I disagree. I'm trying to think of like the hottest girl name right now. And you can't because it's Brandy. Stop. It's not.

People are going to agree with me. I don't think they are. Yeah, they are. Pretty sure not. What do you seriously think Brandy... I'm trying to think of a hot girl name. No, but I'm... No, I wasn't saying like Brandy to you. I meant like, what do you seriously think people think of when they think Brandy?

Oh, I think they think it's a trashy name. Trashy in a hot way? Hmm? Yeah, exactly. I don't know. She works in a harbor town laying whiskey down and maybe dropping it like it's hot. Okay. The reason there's a song called Brandy is because she was a fine girl. Do you know what that means? It means she's hot. Okay. The reason there's a song called Brandy is because she was

a fine girl. Do you know what that means? It means she was hot. All right. I rest my case. Continue on. So you admit

you were wrong. No. You hot, mad lady. So this was your typical office romance. It started as a friendship

then it got a little flirty-flirty. Shannon's a hot girl name. Yeah. But Shannon's hot, but she's also pretty smart. Ashley, Brittany, Tiffany, Brandy. So smart. They're just Brandy They're just hot They're just hot My goal is to offend many a woman

Yeah, absolutely And every Nelson Hey, clearly Nelsons can be hot It's just off-brand And just like clearly Brandys can be very smart Look at you Thank you I'll take that.

I mean, obviously not in your case. You're just hot. So they went on a few dates, and then by the summer of 2002, it was serious. Nelson was basically living at Annalisa's condo, and they went out to dinner a bunch, and everyone at work knew they were together, and Anna was very in love with Nelson. She thought she'd found her future husband. What? Nothing.

I'm just listening. I'm intrigued. You're making faces. Okay. And he thought he'd found his future wife. No. They were talking about getting married. So investigators were learning more about Anna.

Okay, she's got this serious boyfriend. It's always the boyfriend. We've all seen Dateline. Fast forward through this part. But they were still curious about that 911 call. It had been so strange. Why hadn't the caller identified herself? Because she had just murdered someone. Possibly. Why had she called from half a mile away? She had just left a murder scene. Who uses a pay phone? I mean, I know it's 2002, but damn.

So they started looking into that phone call. But there were no security cameras on the pay phone. And of course, you can't get really good fingerprints off a pay phone because it's just a gangbang of prints on there. Is that from the show? That's from the police officer. So then investigators went around to all the local businesses and they were like, did you guys happen to see anyone using that payphone over there around noon? And all the workers were like, oh, sure.

All I do all day is I sit here and stare at that payphone and memorize everyone who uses it and what time they used it just for moments like this. Why do you ask? Is that helpful to you? But Brandy, you hot girl. That conversation didn't really happen. That was a lie because I'm hilarious. Yes, I think we all picked up on that. That was a lie because I'm hilarious. Yes. I think we all picked up on that. By this point, Captain Richard Conklin of the local police was the lead investigator.

And because he's a secure man who has not once participated in a dick measuring contest, was like, you know what? I'm not afraid to admit when I need some help. This is a brutal murder. It's high profile. So he called in the state's major crime unit. And they got to work getting samples of the blood at the crime scene. Because as Richard said, you ready for this? I am.

DNA was just starting to be a wonderful tool for law enforcement. By the way, Richard would also like to let you know about smartphones, cruise control, and dabbing. So investigators were at the crime scene and they were finding out about Nelson Sessler, Annalise's boyfriend, and they were like, huh, we ought to talk to that guy. But before they could even do that, Nelson showed up at the condo and he was like, hey, hey, what's going on here? And they had to break the horrible news that Annalisa had been murdered. And Nelson was like, oh, hmm, geez, I can't believe this happened. Really? That's how he reacted? No emotion. No tears.

On account of the Johnson & Johnson shampoo. That's not great. We say all the time, though. I know. People's reactions, you know, are different. Mm-hmm. Okay. See, this is what we really do.

We say, you know, everybody reacts differently, but this is the wrong way to do it. That's exactly what we do. And that's what I'm going to say here. Like, that's weird. That's weird. They asked Nelson a few questions, and of course he denied being involved in her murder, and he told them the last time I saw her was when I left for work in the morning. Nelson didn't have scratches on him. He didn't have blood on him, but they were suspicious as hell. They thought his behavior was a little odd. Sus. Slightly sus.

And they kept him there at the scene. And when they came back to him, they found him naked. Not naked. What would be another weird thing? I don't know i really just said that it's like a funny thing he was taking a nap what yes that is as weird as him being naked oh nothing puts me to sleep like someone i love being murdered wake me up when something happens oh Oh, my gosh. That is weird, right? Yeah. Super weird. So they were like, okay, I know I just said this, but they were like, that's super weird.

Yeah. So they looked into his alibi and the folks at Purdue Pharma were like, oh, this place is Fort Knox. We've got security cameras coming out our b-holes. So, yes, we can confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that nelson was at work at the time of the murder he may be a big sleepy weirdo but he's not a murdering sleepy weirdo okay so then they were back to their first thought which was that the 911 caller had maybe something to do with annalisa was the murderer so they asked Nelson, do you know of any women who would want to kill Annalisa? Don't know if you've heard this, man, but bitches be crazy.

And Nelson was like, no. But then he thought for a minute. And he said, actually, ugh. actually, and he gave them the names of two of his ex-girlfriends who both suffered from depression, which, fun fact, the worst side effect of depression is murdering your ex-boyfriend's new girlfriend. It's a terrible thing that happens when you get the blues. That's right. So investigators went to the ex-girlfriends, and both women had really good good alibis and they were totally cooperative and really had no motive.

I mean, can you imagine? Yeah. If all you've got is some depression. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. So he threw a bone this way to get the focus off his mistress.

Oh, that's an interesting theory, Brandy. Let's see how it all pans out. So those women were ruled out, and so was everyone in Annalisa's family. And at that point, investigators were grasping at straws. It really didn't make sense that Annalisa had been murdered. She didn't seem to have any enemies. She was just a smart, hardworking young woman who was enjoying her life. So they were like, okay, Annalisa's condo is right on the water. And a lot of the yachts near Anna's condo have been burgled lately. So they started looking into that term a lot. I love the word burgled.

Burgled. Burgled. So they started looking into the people who'd been arrested for burglary. Did they break into these yachts and then go brutally murder a woman? And not take anything from her apartment? No. I mean, of course not, because that'd be insane. But hey, they, you know, they were getting desperate.

I have a theory about this. What? I think that sometimes these shows just throw those little bits in just to, like, meaty up the episode. Yeah. When likely that didn't have any actual real bearing on the investigation at all. I totally agree with you. Yes. Totally agree.

The other thing, so I did some, you know, just like Google image search. And it's totally possible that in 2002 things were much different, but there's no fucking yachts at this place. Yeah. So Steve's pontoon boat got broken into. Exactly. Somebody took his Coors Light. Yeah. Anyway.

They did have some luck with the crime scene, though. Anyway, they did have some luck with the crime scene, though. They'd found some blood on Annalisa's sink, and sure enough, that blood was a mix of Annalisa's plus an unknown assailant's. But they ran the blood through CODIS, and they ran it against samples from her family, and they ran it against Nelson's sample, and they got nothing. Five months passed. They still got nothing. Five months passed. They still had nothing. Then, something really weird happened. Come with me as I tell you about a totally unrelated crime.

Okay. It has absolutely nothing to do with Annalise's murder, so calm down. Okay. It was March 23, 2003, at Westchester Medical Center in New York. It was a Sunday night, and some employees were out on break, and they heard a scuffle out in the parking lot. Hmm. It was difficult to make out what was happening, but it looked like a man and woman were fighting. So the hospital workers called over a security guard. They called the police and they got the two people separated.

And the guy was holding a knife and bleeding profusely. He'd been stabbed. Luckily, I mean, this all went down right in front of an emergency room. So they just wheeled him in. And the woman who was with him was like, let me go with him. And, okay, that's the face that the hospital workers made. And they were like, ma'am, it appears you've just stabbed him. Yeah, they were like, I don't think so. And she was like, no, the knife came out of a bonfire. It shot out of a bonfire. That's my excuse for anything that happens.

And the woman got in her car and fled the scene. Yeah, of course she did. It turned out the man and woman were a married couple. His name was Paul Christos, and the woman was 33-year-old Sheila DiVallo. So police brought Sheila in for questioning because this whole thing looked really weird, and she explained that it had just been a misunderstanding. Funniest thing. Funniest thing.

See, she was not trying to hurt her husband. She certainly, oh my, oh my God, she wasn't trying to kill her husband. No, she was trying to help her husband. Help him to the other side. I would like to share with you a transcript from the interrogation. I'm so ready. Detective, what time was it when he came home? Sheila. I want to say, too, I didn't notice him at first. I was playing with the dogs, and then he came in, and he said he was hurt and he he laid on the he laid on the floor and he's like can you look at it and see if it's bleeding and I

saw I saw the wounds on his chest. You know how it is. Yeah you just come home and you like have stab wounds. You're like hey can you look at this? No. No. I don't believe this. Sheila said they agreed that it would take too long for an ambulance to arrive so she drove Paul to the hospital. And the detective goes, Sheila, I have to be honest with you. I find it odd.

And Sheila goes, the whole thing is odd. No. You can say that again. Meanwhile, Paul was back at the hospital. He did open heart surgery. And as soon as he was in stable condition, he was like, yeah, I'd like to speak to the cops. Yeah.

Paul was like, I need to talk to you guys about my wife. Bitch tried to kill me. But first, a love story. Paul and Sheila met when they were both students at New York Medical College in 1994. Sheila was, oopsies, married to someone else at the time. So they had an affair. And as soon as her husband found out that she was cheating on him, he was like, hmm, goodbye. So they divorced.

And Sheila and Paul got married in 2000. These days, Paul was an academic, and Sheila worked at, stop me if you've heard of this place, Purdue Pharma. Oh, shit. And even though they hadn't been married long, their marriage was already on the rocks. Paul told police that they'd been growing apart and that they hadn't been intimate for a very long time. But when he got home on the night in question, Sheila suggested that they try something new to reignite their marriage. She wanted to play a sex game. Oh. And he was like, absolutely.

a sex game. Oh. And he was like, absolutely. So they started playing a game and in the game you don't have to look so horrified, Brandy.

Are you clutching your pearls over there? I am. No, I'm worried she's going to stab him during the sex game. You must be some kind of genius.

Should we tell them about the dog toy we have on my bed? All right. Kristen and Norm's bedroom is located directly across the sex dungeon in which we record. Which is just how we like it. And as we were climbing the stairs to come record today, Kristen says, As we were climbing the stairs to come record today, Kristen says, oh, hey, that thing on my bed is a dog toy.

It is. Not a sex toy. Look, I've been. I think it was just like she was trying to just like think on her feet real quick when she realized that they'd accidentally left their anal beads on the bed. Okay. This thing is. Oh. Silicone. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. There ain't no beans on the bed. Okay. This thing is silicone. So you can wash it off after it's been right up your butt. Toss that right in the dishwasher.

It is. So every time Norman goes to the hardware store, he comes back with a new dog toy, which I think is very sweet. Except he came back with this one. I'm like, that looks like something you shove up someone's ass. And he's like, no, huh? This is a dog toy, I swear. And so now... And he was really disappointed that you weren't even interested in trying it with him.

And so he just gave it to Dottie. Wouldn't that be funny? He was embarrassed by the poor boy. Is that why we also have a dildo for Dottie? I did think it was weird when Dottie greeted me at the door. But you're so non-judgmental. That's the thing about women named Brandy. They're just hot.

They're just down for anything. So they started playing a game. And in the game, they blindfolded each other and handcuffed each other. Okay, that's not accurate because somebody's got to be unhandcuffed or they're just laying there next to each other. I thought it was implied. They're not both handcuffed at the same time. They're both handcuffed and they're like, well, shit, what? They both went to medical college.

They're too smart for that. Come on. Medical college? Yeah, they didn't go to medical school. It was medical college, right? New York Medical College? Was that what it was called? I have no idea.

Yeah, New York Medical College. Oh, okay it was called? I have no idea. Yeah. New York Medical College. Okay. All right. I think it's different than medical school. Okay. Because she made a comment. Well, anyway, I'll get to it later.

It does matter. Later. But it's for something I didn't write down, so now I'm worried I'm going to miss it. Anyway, I'll probably miss it. They're playing a sex game. They're all handcuffed up. No, Brandy. Let's get this right here.

Okay. One person at a time is both blindfolded and handcuffed. And then, do you know what they do next? Tickle each other? They can't tickle each other because, as you pointed out, there's handcuffs involved. Yeah, they do like the senses game, right? You're like, okay, here's a feather. And here's hot wax. And here's a knife right

in your chest! Okay, seems like you've played this game before. So, the person who wasn't blindfolded or handcuffed would go find a household object and like rub it on the blindfolded person. And the blindfolded person and the blindfolded person

would guess what the object was i believe this is the game i just described i don't think it sounds very arousing no i guess it all depends on what you get like if you get some old lunch meat it wouldn't be great but yeah a feather might be nice. What would be the worst thing to get? Sauerkraut. You reach past the whipped cream and strawberries and you get this

tub of sauerkraut. Maybe some old potato salad. Almost sauerkraut. Maybe some old potato salad. Sorry, this episode's a little off the rails. So, you know, Sheila went first, and boy, she was great at guessing all the household objects. And then it was Paul's turn.

She blindfolded him, handcuffed him to a chair, and started rubbing objects on him. And he enjoyed himself. And Sheila ran off to the kitchen for one last object. Yeah, a knife. And she came up to him and rubbed it against his face. And he said, is it a candle? And it wasn't a candle. It was a knife.

By this point, I don't fully. I mean, I guess I do understand it, but it seems weird. So I believe he was still handcuffed. I know he was still handcuffed. He had his blindfold on. He was in a chair. And I believe the chair was like on the floor at this point. Because she straddled him and stabbed him in the chest with the knife and then stabbed him with it again. Paul was in terrible pain, obviously.

And Sheila was like, oh, my God, I think I hurt you. You're bleeding. What? Something fell on you. I think the candle hurt you. What? What? Something fell on you. I think the candle hurt you. What? Yeah. And he was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, take the blindfold off, take the blindfold off.

So she took the blindfold off and he saw blood running down his chest and he said, unhandcuff me. And Sheila looked and looked and looked and darn it, she couldn't find the key to the handcuffs. And poor Paul, who has been stabbed twice in the chest and believes his wife that this is somehow an accident, said, okay, if we can't undo the cuffs, help me break the chair. So they broke the chair, and he said, call 911. I need an ambulance. I'm getting dizzy. Yeah, you've been stabbed twice, sir. Well, he didn't know.

So Sheila grabbed her phone and she called 9-1-1. And she was like, hello, please help. Send help. My husband was stabbed with a candle. You know how that goes. This is a very real phone call to 911. It's not fake. I'm not just. She didn't actually call 911. Please send an ambulance as soon as you can.

It's a real dire situation over here. She got off the phone. Sheila, is it? Yeah. What? What? Sheila. So this is it? Yeah. What? What? Sheila. So, this is

my theory. Okay. Sheila and Nelson. Don't push invisible glasses up on your face when you say Nelson. Banging. Trying to get their significant others out of the way. Okay. Okay.

Interesting theory. Let's Mm-hmm. Okay. Interesting theory. Let's see how it shakes out. So she gets off the phone with 911. This is an incredibly real call that definitely happened. And she's like, oh, there's no ambulances. It's super weird. It's ambulance's day out. Away from here.

They're all going to Scranton. So they waited for the ambulance to show up. And they waited. And they waited. And you know how it is with ambulances. Sometimes they show up, sometimes they don't. This time they didn't. By this point, it had been almost an hour

since Sheila called 911. And Paul was like, poor Paul. I mean, he's like, can you call again? Let me talk to the dispatcher this time. And Sheila was like, no, no, no, no. The dispatcher doesn't want to talk to you. She wants you to just lie on the floor. Does she?

But then Sheila made a real phone call. It was to her secret lover, Nelson. She invited him for dinner that evening. As she was inviting her boyfriend to dinner, her husband, whom she just stabbed twice, was bleeding out on the floor. And Paul was like, you have to take me to the ER. I'm in bad shape. And so she agreed to call the whambulance. She put him in the back of her car and slowly drove him to the hospital. And when they got to the hospital, she pulled around back into the parking lot.

Oh, my gosh. Not, you know, to the main entrance of the ER. And by this point, poor Paul was like, what is happening? And Sheila got out of the car and came around back and opened the door like she was going to help him get out. But instead, she had a knife in her hand and she began attacking him. Paul screamed. His wife, like, it just became clear. Yeah. Oh, my God.

His wife was trying to murder him. She'd been trying to murder him this whole time. It was at that point that the hospital employees saw what was happening and got Paul safely inside. So I've already told you that police brought Sheila in for questioning. And at first, they let her think that Paul had inside. So I've already told you that police brought Sheila in for questioning. And at first, they let her think that Paul had died. But eventually, once they had Paul's side of the story, with this super fun sex game that ended with someone being stabbed, they confronted Sheila with Paul's version of the story. And Sheila was like, wow, weird. Husbands say the darndest things. She did admit that she'd used a knife during their sex game, but it had been an accident. Oops, fudge stripes. I stabbed you in the chest twice. Yeah. And in the interrogation,

the detective was like, how could you put a knife into somebody's chest by accident? No. And Sheila was like, I don't know. Sheila said it just wasn't true that she'd stabbed Paul in the hospital parking lot. But, you know, when she fled the scene, she left behind a bloody knife and her cell phone. So I don't know, man. And a glass slipper. This woman is no Cinderella.

How dare you? And, of course, investigators discovered by looking through Sheila's cell phone that she'd never called 911. In fact, she'd called someone in Stamford and invited him to dinner. That man's name? Albert Einstein. Nelson Sessler. Yeah, all right. That man's name?

So on the night of this stabbing, Nelson showed up for dinner at Sheila's house, which was really Sheila and Paul's house. And it was swarming with police officers because it was officially a crime scene. And the officers told him there'd been a domestic dispute. So Nelson went home that night, but he later read about the stabbing in the newspaper. And as soon as he saw that, he called the Stanford police and he was like, okay,

I need to tell you guys something. I think Sheila killed Annalisa. You, ooh, ooh. Tell me what's going on. What's going on in your mind, Brianna?

All right. This kind of fudge stripes on your, on your mind. My initial reaction was, oh my gosh, he wasn't in on it the whole time. And then my skepticism took that over real quick.

And I was like, he's trying to make it look like he wasn't in on it the whole time. If I bring it to you, then you'll stop looking at me. Okay. Just my theory. All right. All right. All right. Here's what he told them. He and Sheila and Annalisa all worked together at Purdue Pharma.

He said that he and Sheila had dated casually for a while, but they broke up in 2001. Afterward, he started seeing Annalisa, and things got really serious with her but then analisa was murdered and sheila was so good to him after analisa's murder sheila reached out to him with a care package it included cookies and her cookie. Ew. Sorry. I mean, you're right, but ew. She also sent him that dog toy that I've got in my bedroom. She invited him on a ski trip with some work friends. And Nelson decided to go on the ski trip. It might be nice to get away, hang out with friends.

But when he got there, it was just him and Sheila. hang out with friends. But when he got there, it was just him and Sheila. One thing led to another, and two months after Annalisa was murdered, he and Sheila began dating again. He spent a lot of time at Sheila's house. Stayed there pretty frequently,

like a lot of weekends over there. Where was Paul? Very good question. Nelson claimed he had no idea that Sheila was married. But that had to be bullshit, right? How could he not notice that Paul lived there? Well, hold on to your hat. Hold on to your hat. Why are you wearing a fedora? As it turns out, any time she wanted to have Nelson over, Sheila made sure that her husband, Paul, made himself scarce. She told Paul, hey, I have a disabled brother, and he can't know about you.

He can't know that we're married. If he were to find out, he would be very upset because he's very possessive. So he's going to come stay on the weekend sometime, and I'm going to need you to clear out of here. What? Yes. For a while,ul complied when sheila's brother was coming over paul would take all of his clothes and any pictures or any sign that he lived there and he'd hide those signs and then he'd go to a friend's house or stay at a hotel

this is ridiculous yeah i don't feel like this idea came straight from Love Actually. Still never saw that movie. I'm missing out. Okay. Am I? Am I really? Eventually he did get sick of this and he told her, look, you just need to tell your brother that we're married. sick of this and he told her, look, you just need to tell your brother that we're married. Yeah. But Sheila, she just couldn't go through with that. Plus she had other more important things on her mind. Like?

Like, for example. Nelson's dick. Okay. Well, they weren't getting together to play checkers, Kristen. That's right. They were playing chess because they're both very smart. For example, she was constantly telling Paul and a few other friends about her three friends at work.

Melissa, Jack, and Annalisa. They were all in a love triangle and it was all Sheila could talk about. Oh, except Sheila was Melissa and Jack was Nelson. Boy, I don't know how you crack that code. Why would Jack go for Annalisa when Melissa was right there?

What should Melissa do? How should she win him back? Should she confront Annalisa? Is Nelson really not in on this? No. No. Oh, my gosh. I'm shocked. Is Nelson really not in on this? No. No. Oh, my gosh.

I'm shocked. He just acted weird when Annalisa was murdered. Yeah. Now, I've got... I don't know. I wish I had found a taped interview with him. I'm sure I'm sure they exist. But there's part of me that's just like this woman is so how we'll get to it later. OK, where will we? I don't know.

I feel complicated, but no, it really appears he had no. Oh, my gosh. OK. No, it really appears he had no idea. Oh, my gosh. Okay. So Paul listened to these stories, and, I mean, he weighed in with advice, but he really didn't understand why Sheila was so obsessed with this love triangle that she wasn't even a part of. Yeah.

And it kept getting weirder. Sheila said that she and Melissa were going to go do a stakeout. They wanted to spy on Jack. and Melissa were going to go do a stakeout. They wanted to spy on Jack. Paul says he found it all a little odd, but as it turned out, Paul was super into true crime and he actually had wanted to be an FBI agent. So he had all this weird equipment like night vision goggles. So he let her borrow them so she could go stalk someone. Oh, my gosh. This is super strange. At another point, Sheila told him that Melissa had bought a picklock so that she could break into Annalisa's apartment and take a look at the photos of Jack and Annalisa just to, you know, get a sense of the relationship between them. You know, nothing weird. Yeah, no, that's not weird at all.

Can you fucking imagine if David came to you and he's like, oh yeah, my good friend at work, she's just gonna break into her ex-boyfriend's new girlfriend's place and you're just looking at the picture. Nothing weird. Just taking a peek around. Yeah, just

getting a sense for the relationship. I don't get it. Yeah, I don't either. If Norman came to me with this story, I'd be like, you're insane for even being part of this in any way. She even told him, oh, man, one time Melissa found out that Jack was going out of town. And so she flew to that same destination and got on his return flight and was like, oh, what's this? Oh, you're here, too. And then she sat next to him on the way back.

So. Full on stalker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. so on stalker oh yeah yeah so paul says that he had tolerated these stories and thought they were dumb but now in light of the stabbing and his wife's secret lover and the story about their murdered co-worker literally named annalisa he was like oh my god and he told investigators everything he knew yeah so by this point it was pretty obvious that Sheila had murdered Annalisa.

I mean, come on. Yeah. We've all put that together. Have we? You know, you know that murder. Personal. Very personal. Yeah.

Brutal. So investigators went back to Purdue Pharma and they were like, hey, we love how seriously you take security. And we would love for you to roll that beautiful bean footage of Sheila at work on the day of Annalisa's murder. Or Shalila. Shalila Shalada. And so they did. And they discovered that although Sheila did show up for work that day, she took a super long lunch. Oh, did she?

She sure did. And that super long lunch happened to coincide with the time that Annalisa was murdered. And the time the mystery woman made the 911 call. Then they did a DNA test on the blood that had been found on Annalisa's sink and it turned out to be 100% that bitch. So now Sheila was charged with the attempted murder of her husband. Interestingly, she was not yet charged with the murder of Annalisa, though. Okay, they're just trying to get all their ducks in a row first. God, you sound exactly like the cops.

Yeah, literally the quote was, we're just trying to cross our T's and dot our I's. We want to make sure it sticks. Sheila's attempted murder trial against Paul began in February of 2004. out our eyes. Yeah. We want to make sure it sticks. Sheila's attempted murder trial against Paul began in February of 2004. This was a non-jury trial

and this case could not have been easier for the prosecution. They had eyewitnesses from the hospital who saw them fighting and broke up the fight. What did they have Paul?

They have the murder weapon, which she left behind at the hospital. They have the testimony of the victim himself, and he did great on the stand. They laid out the whole story. Sheila tried to murder her husband because she wanted to be with Nelson Sessler, and in fact, she'd also murdered Annalisa Raimundo

for the same reason. The defense argued that Sheila had emotional difficulties and that she'd never meant to hurt her husband. Okay, it was acting with the candle, remember? Oh gosh, candles, I mean. Dangerous. Well, you think they're dangerous because of the fire aspect. That's not it at all. It's because they'll stab you. They're hiding knives. There's a hidden knife in every candle and that thing will stab you twice if you're not careful. Ultimately, she was found guilty, sentenced to 25 years in prison.

And immediately afterward, Annalisa's father came out and said, this woman murdered my daughter. I believe she murdered my daughter. Yeah. But it wasn't until 2007 that Sheila actually got charged with Annalisa's murder. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, they, like, double-crossed those teams. Yes, in, like, the slowest way possible.

I mean, I feel like this case is pretty much a slam dunk. I agree. Am I nuts? So, ten years after the first trial, she was brought to trial for the murder of Annalisa Raimundo. This time, she went for a jury trial, and it began in January of 2012. And Brandy? Mm. Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm.

It thrills me to tell you that Sheila, who is smart but isn't half as smart as she thinks she is, decided to represent herself in court. Why? Yes! Why? Well, she'd obviously hired a real attorney for the first trial. And hadn't gotten her anywhere but 25 years in prison. Yep.

So let's see what this gets her. Oh my gosh. What an idiot, am I right? She's really scary the interviews with her she is terrifying because she just seems so smart and put together yeah but i mean obviously she's not that smart the prosecution laid out their case which was that Sheila DiVallo was obsessed with Nelson Sessler. She'd murdered Annalisa in the hopes of rekindling the relationship with Nelson.

They brought forth experts who said that the blood that was left on Annalisa's sink matched Sheila's. They played the 911 tape, and a voice recognition expert contended that it was Sheila who'd called in Annalise's murder. That kind of sounds like junk science to me. Okay, that's very interesting you say that. Is that what the defense says? Is that what Sheila says? No, no, no. Oh. Well, I'm sure yes.

Yeah. But the jury didn't find that credible either. Yeah, I wouldn't either. But it'll be interesting to hear. Okay. Okay. Paul Christos took the stand to talk about how Sheila had stabbed him multiple times. Yeah.

And Sheila got kind of tough in the cross-examination. But when the prosecution asked him to show the jury the scars he had from being stabbed, Sheila burst into tears. But don't worry, she later laughed about the whole thing when she said, I seem to have John Boehner's affliction. So do you remember he was, I think he was a speaker of the house. Yeah. You know, because he was a man who, like, cried, everyone got to make fun of him because, God forbid, a man share his feelings. Yes.

I believe he also had very blue eyes. And a spray tan you would not believe. Let's make fun of that, okay? We don't need to make fun of tears. Yes. At one point, which I personally found incredibly awkward, Nelson was brought to the stand and, of course, Sheila got to question him. Nelson looked so uncomfortable. Yeah.

Okay. I've got to pause. So Sheila was like, so do you like, like me? Hey, I know a lot has happened. Like, where are we? You don't think I'm crazy, do you? Okay. This is a true story that i have to pause everything so you know she got arrested for the attempted murder of paul while she was in prison she sent nelson letters and there was a lot of bad poetry rambling poetry in them

Had poetry, rambling poetry in them. She told him that she was anti-abortion. What? I know. It doesn't seem relevant to me. I think, because I didn't get to read any of these letters. Didn't have the pleasure of the poetry reading. But I think what she was trying to go for was like, oh, I'm so afraid of blood.

You know, I didn't even go to med school. That's what I was thinking about earlier. I didn't even go to med school because I can't handle blood. You went to medical college. Which is different. It's very different. So therefore, I couldn't have killed Annalisa because I'm so afraid of blood. Snaps, snaps, snaps. Here's some poetry.

Did everyone get their wine and cheese? I hope so. Super. Oh, God. What the fuck was that? It's my fucking watch. What did we say? I have no idea.

She's taking over my life. She's becoming self-aware. Okay, we said Snap Snaps, wine and cheese, and then your watch said it's nice to be appreciated. It's nice to be appreciated. Snap, snaps, wine and cheese, and then your watch said it's nice to be appreciated. It's nice to be appreciated. It can't do that while we're telling scary stories. Okay.

So anyway, you know, he's gotten these letters. Yeah. Now he's up there on the stand, and Sheila stood there in her little suit with her low ponytail looking like a founding father. I was going to say. That's like my favorite joke ever. So it's from, oh, what's the name of that podcast? Every Little Thing. They made a joke about low ponytails being for founding fathers.

And it hurts my feelings because I kind of like a low pony. But I look like a founding father with one. I mean, it's a very funny thing. Great podcast, every little thing. All right. Anyway, moving on. And she said, good afternoon, Mr. Sessler. You had lied to the police. And he said, yes, I wasn't forthcoming to the police. And she said, okay, and what was the nature of that lie? And he said, I hadn't told them that you had been my girlfriend in the past and we had a relationship. He went on to say that he'd provided the names of two ex-girlfriends who had mental health issues, but that he hadn't given her name to police because he thought she didn't show any signs of instability.

Okay. So this is my issue, and I don't even know if I'm being fair. I'm probably not. But part of me is like, he had to know she was a little off her rocker, right? Although, I mean, her own husband didn't know. Maybe that's unfair. I don, her own husband didn't know. Maybe that's unfair. I don't know. I don't know.

Part of me is kind of like, how could he not have at least shared her name? I mean, yeah, I don't know. But she had to put up one hell of a front. Yeah. She was getting her husband to move out of their house on weekends, so she had to be very convincing. Yeah, she's clearly a master manipulator.

Well, and she was, the other thing is, she freaking stabbed him in the chest twice. And got him to believe that it was some kind of accident. Yes. Yeah, yes. She is a wizard. Which, okay, what was her fucking game plan? She would just die.

Yeah, but what's the story going to be? Mine candled it. Right? Well, that's what I'm saying. That's a good question. I don't know where you go from there. Her husband's going to be dead in the house, and then Nelson's going to come over for dinner that night? It's just like a little bit kooky.

Sorry, I just spat everywhere. You know, it's, she's just kind of a round, what's that? Square peg in a round hole. Yes, thank you. That's it.

I think it's the differences that make us beautiful. That's it. I think it's the differences that make us beautiful. I will tell you, Brandy, there is a downside to representing yourself in court, particularly when you don't have a law degree. Yeah. And it's that you don't have any idea what you're doing. It doesn't matter how smart you are. If you don't know the rules, you don't know the fucking rules.

So throughout this trial, she seemed really nervous the judge got annoyed with her constantly overruled her because duh but sheila did her best to defend herself she didn't provide an alibi on account of she was murdering someone at the time she didn't have one she did bring a guy to the stand who testified that he saw a man and woman fighting in front of Annalisa's condo the morning of the murder. But on cross-examination, the prosecution was like, OK, dude, you're on parole. You lied a bunch. You're an alcoholic. You know, the list goes on and on.

Good day, sir. And do you even remember what you initially told the police about that argument you saw? And the guy was like, actually, no, I don't. And it's like, all right, thank you. Goodbye. Yeah. He was wearing a zip-up hooded sweatshirt it was to hide his nips kristen sheila also told the jury that the dna stuff was bullshit she said there had been something funky about that sink handle it had been like resubmitted as evidence and you know she was

trying to get to the bottom of what had happened there so you know just everybody calm down about my blood being at the yeah it's a conspiracy yeah yeah then she told him some really alarming stuff about 9-11 mattress firm yeah comet ping pong you wouldn't believe what they're doing in that basement. The basement that doesn't exist. And also, it wasn't her on that 911 call. Maybe it sounded like her, but it wasn't her. She told the jury, they say Harry Connick Jr. and Frank Sinatra sound alike. What?

Is it a crime to sound like someone else? If it is, lock me up! And here's an interesting defense. The fact that she hadn't successfully murdered her husband meant that she couldn't have been the one to kill Annalisa. She wasn't capable of murder.

That is a weird defense. I know. And it's like, obviously you couldn't go through with it because it was your husband. Yeah. Who you clearly had some sort of affection for.

Annalisa, you viewed as the enemy. Yeah. Even though she was just a wonderful, smart, talented woman. With beautiful hair.

Oh, yeah. Okay. This is the other thing. So, I know I'm being shitty, but I will tell you, Annalisa, beautiful. Sheila, no. Not so much at all. And in Sheila's little defense, she was like, well, I couldn't have killed Annalisa because of the weight difference between us.

Oh, she called her fat? I mean, not in so many words. Yeah, but it's like, shut up. Shut the fuck up. She opened that door because she was like, oh, that's weird. Some acquaintance from work is here. And then you attacked her with a knife. She was totally unprepared.

Yeah. Anyway. Here's another interesting thing. Okay. So it was so funny that you were like, that sounds like junk science about the voice stuff. So the jury heard the 9-1 tape at the beginning of the trial. And they agreed with you. Don't totally trust this expert.

Yeah. But at the end of it, they asked to hear it again. And by that point, Sheila had chosen to represent herself. So she talked so much. So they knew exactly what she sounded like. And so when they heard that 911 call a second time, a lot of them were like, oh, my God, that's her for sure. All right. I do like that.

I know. I like it, too. Sheila did point out evidence that could lead to other suspects. Apparently, a blue contact lens had been found in Annalisa's hair, which I think is super odd. And, you know, didn't belong to Sheila, didn't belong to Annalisa. Maybe it belonged to the real killer. Also, if she'd really... What?

Or maybe someone at one point had lost a contact when they were at Annalisa's house and in a struggle where she was basically wiped all over the entry room floor. Yeah, I agree. It got picked up in her hair. I also... The other thing I was thinking...-Lisa had very long hair. That contact could have been in there for weeks. Well, no, here's, now she obviously does not have the same texture as mine because mine's like dry and curly. But I mean, I will find bobby pins in my hair.

I will find some bits of food in my hair sometimes. There's stuff that gets stuck when you've got a certain amount of hair. That's what I'm saying. I rest my case. You know what? You're acting like a woman who never finds stuff in her hair. All right. It's just my cross to bear.

You don't just, like like find bobby pins. Woodland creatures? No. I feel like something could camp out in the back. You don't find bobby pins? No. I always know if there's a bobby pin in there. I don't have anywhere near as much hair as you do.

Listen to you. I always know. I do. I think I do. And then I i'm like what's that you think you know but you have no idea here's the other thing she said if she'd really killed analisa shouldn't there have been more than one droplet of her own blood in Annalise's condo? No, she cleaned up. Yeah. Yeah. That's stupid.

So on February 10th, 2012, the jury found her guilty and at her sentencing, Sheila stood to speak. Are you ready? She said, First and foremost, I'd like to thank God for giving me the courage and strength to stand here today. Are you accepting an award? Okay. I was devastated because the first time I saw this, I thought it was part of her opening statement. And I was like, I had this joke in here about how she mistook it for a grammy awards night thing but no so she said first and foremost i'd like to thank god for giving me the courage and strength to stand here today

it was hard to sit there and withstand those harsh words you murdered somebody and you attempted to murder your husband. You're not a victim, ma'am. No. But I disagree with you, Brandi, because I think she was the bravest murderer in all the land. And for that, I would like to applaud her. Earlier, Annalisa's parents had said that their daughter's murder had made them question their faith in God. And Sheila, motherfucker, said,

I pray for them and hope that the punishment you hand down here today will give them closure and some kind of solace. Ew, fuck off. Yeah. Hate it. And she was sentenced to another 50 years in prison. So, if we're scoring things, with an attorney, she got 25 years. Acting as her own attorney, she got 50 years. Double is what that is.

Also, one was attempted murder and one was actual murder. Yeah, okay. But that was not justice. is what that is also one was attempted murder and one was actual murder yeah okay but that was not justice because the court made an error in allowing her husband paul to testify about their confidential conversations see this is what drives me nuts about like oh i hope this sentence gives them sauce and then she just immediately appeals yeah i believe she also appealed the other one but you know spoiler know, spoiler alert, they go nowhere. So obviously there are some rules about spousal privilege. But the appellate court was like, yeah, that doesn't apply to these particular conversations.

Go to hell. Yeah. So then Sheila appealed her sentence all the way to the Connecticut Supreme Court. And they were like, double go to hell. Doesn't apply here. There was also a civil case around Annalisa. Does that just mean that they can't be compelled to testify? They can still choose to testify, right?

I believe so. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure Paul was more than willing. Uh-huh. So there are a bunch of different caveats and stuff. And I only went to the one semester of law school. Is that OK?

Should this podcast pay for me to go back to law school? No. Thank you. So there was a civil case around Annalisa's murder. In November of 2004, her dad sued her condo building on the grounds that it didn't have proper security. And the case was settled in 2015 for an undisclosed amount, which I know you hate. But here's something you'll love. Annalisa's parents took that money and put it into a fund in Annalisa's memory that helps

students in the Philippines study medicine. Oh, that's super cool. I do love that. I felt so awful for her parents. I mean, they were just devastated. And Annalisa just seemed like a wonderful person who had a ton of potential. Yeah. And Sheila was, I mean, my God.

Yeah. She is chilling. Yeah. And that's the story of the murder of Annalisa Raimundo and the attempted murder of Paul Christos. Wow. So let me tell you the names. I was going to say, what's the name of the shows? So Vengeance Killer Coworkers is the name.

There's a whole show about that? Can you believe it? It was canceled. And the episode was Obsession at the Office. The other thing I watched, and I didn't watch the whole thing. And, oh, Piers Morgan. Women Who Kill? Yeah, Killer Women.

Killer Women, yeah. Yeah. Fucking Piers Morgan. Yeah, I had to watch one of those episodes for a case once. Not a fan. How is he so full of himself? I don't know. Oh, to be a lame white dude.

Am I right? That's right. What did you think of that? Wasn't that nuts? That was nuts. Cocoa nuts. I agree. Do you think Nelson should have known?

I don't know. I don't know. I think Sheila had to be real good at keeping it looking all right from the outside. I guess so. She fooled Paul. Yeah. He lived with her. Yeah. She convinced him to move out of his own house on the weekends. I mean, and the other funny thing about all this is like, I hear that and and I'm like, oh, gosh, well, everyone in this story is dumb.

No. No. Everyone in this story is very smart. Super smart. One of the articles described Paul as gullible but not dumb. Yeah. And the other thing I think is they didn't love each other. So, you know, someone you don't love is like,

hey, you want to get out of the house for the weekend? You might be like, sure. I'll go hotel it up. Mm-hmm. Get some room service. Maybe a massage. Maybe go for a dip in the pool. Not a fan of hotel pools.

I was, okay, I was just, I made a face. I don't know what it is about a hotel pool. I was, okay, I was just, I made a face. I don't know what it is about a hotel pool. I think they have too much chlorine in them. Well, yeah, on account of all the pee. That's right. But I mean, why don't we feel that way about like any other pool? I don't know.

There's something about a hotel pool. Yeah, there's an aura. It's pee colored. There's an aura. It's pea colored. Would you ever do a massage in your room in a hotel? Gosh, I would not. It sounds risky.

See, but the reason I would not is not like I think anything is going to happen to me. I kind of feel like anyone who wants that is probably creepy. So I don't want the masseuse to be worried that I'm creepy or anything. So I would just rather take me down to the spa. Paradise City. Where the grass is green and the girls are named Brandy. Same thing. We're saying the same thing.

Oh, goodness. You know what this made me think about? What did it make you think about? Closeness. Feelings. Really? Keeping close with my family. All right, Brandy. You ready to talk about a fall i am was it an accident

am i supposed to answer that before hearing anything no um shout out to gail shortland um at the mirror Mirror and to Peter Hardwick for a series of articles for the Sunshine Coast Daily and International. Disclaimer. I was going to say The Mirror. We've gone down under. Okay. Okay. You know, I'm terrified to use my stairs now.

You are? Yeah. There's no stairs in this oh interesting do go on i know you've got scary stairs i do i do and i always think like oh god if i go down and like what if norman goes to prison for the rest of his life? Oh, my God. I know. Mm-hmm. Louis Mahoney. Okay. Right off the bat. I'm two words in, and I have to tell you, I don't know that I'm pronouncing his last name right.

It is spelled M-A-H-O-N-Y. Looks like Mahoney to me. Mm-hmm. I listened to someone pronounce it, but they said it with an Australian accent and it seems like they cut a whole syllable out. So I don't know. Okay. I'm calling him Louie Mahoney. All right.

Louie Mahoney and Lainey Coldwell had been together since they were teenagers. By 2009, they'd been together for 18 years and were living with their three-year-old daughter, Dakota, in Charlville, Queensland, Australia. They'd moved to Charlville in 2007 after Louie had retired from the police force in northern Australia. Both Louie and Laney had taken positions at a goat abattoir there. What? Not a word I'd ever heard before. I was going to say. No idea if I'm pronouncing it correct.

But it's just a fancy name for a slaughterhouse. Oh, oh, oh, God. Yeah. It was so fancy sounding. It did sound very fancy. Well, I thought it was more of like a petting zoo situation. Nope. Kind of just the opposite.

Yeah. All right. It's very much the opposite. Very much the opposite. So they'd taken these jobs at this slaughterhouse and they'd settled into a nice, quiet life in Charlville. Though Louie and Lainey had never married, because they had been together so long, they were considered to be in a de facto relationship by Australian law, which is like common law marriage, Australian style. Oh. Extreme. Yeah.

The move to Charleville had seemed like a good one for the couple. They were closer to family, back in the town where they'd met all those years ago, and they were living their life raising their daughter together. But on August 23rd. Plus, they were living the dream at that goat slaughter. Goat slaughter house. That's right. That sounds. Slaughtering goats day and night.

What are they doing with all the goat meat? Are people eating goat meat? Absolutely. I've never eaten goat meat. You've not eaten a lot of things. Okay, but I've never even like been at the grocery store and be like, should I pick up goat meat today? No. It's not common here, but I think in other places it's more common.

In Australia, maybe. Okay. For real, I think if I were to work at a slaughterhouse, I would be a vegetarian fast. Oh, for sure. Minute one, day one. I'd be like, well, got to make some ch-ch-ch-changes. So they're living their life, raising their daughter. Things are going well.

Until August 23rd, 2009, when tragedy struck. It was Sunday morning when a call came in to 000, which is like 911. That's ridiculous. Australian style. You know what? I'm such an asshole. Why did I say that was ridiculous? Like 911. You know what? I'm such an asshole. Why did I say that was ridiculous? Like 9-1-1.

When you want me to pick up my phone and call 0-0-0? 0-0-0. That's better than 9-1-1. It is better than 9-1-1. Because little kids can memorize that easier. That is better in every way. It is. But I hear that. My American head is like, that's stupid. You could dial it without even seeing the phone if you had raised buttons because the zero. It's clearly superior to our system.

It is. But my immediate knee jerk reaction. That's dumb. That's dumb. I hate it. Metric systems. Celsius. Fucking meters.

Celsius. Fucking meters. America rules. So on the line was Louie Mahoney, and he sounded distressed. Louie said that he'd been inside with his daughter having a nap when he'd been awoken by a thud. He'd rushed outside to find Laney lying on the ground at the bottom of a large lemon scented gum tree, which is like a big ass tree. Australian style. A lemon scented?

It's called a lemon scented gum tree. Not like lemon scented gum. A lemon scented gumed? It's called a lemon-scented gum tree. Not like lemon-scented gum. A lemon-scented gum tree. Slow down. We're not getting it. I looked it up. I think this is weird. It's just a big tree.

And it doesn't smell like lemons? Maybe they get citronella from the essential oils of this tree. What do you mean maybe? Well, you know, there was like a blurb about it on Wikipedia. And I looked at it a little bit. There was like a section about essential oils. And then I saw the word citronella in there. And I was like, cool, great. Don't fucking care.

Moving on with my life. Who's going to know that I read this? No one. And here we sit. Broken hearted. Tried to shit, but merely farted. You've never heard that? No!

It's a poem. Is it? Sheila wrote it to Nelson. So Louie told the dispatcher that it looked like Lainey had... So you really just kind of phoned in this whole thing? I did. Yep. Wow.

Yep. Louie said it looked like Lainey had fallen off a ladder while taking down party lights, which are like lights. Stop it. Australian style. We have party lights here, too. And they're bigger. Anyway, time to get serious because Lainey was unconscious on the ground and she had a very serious head wound. And he told the dispatcher that he couldn't find a pulse.

When paramedics arrived, they noted that Louie's truck was like backed up to the tree. When I say this was a big ass tree, it was a big fucking tree. Okay. Like 20 feet tall. Oh. So when paramedics get there, his truck is backed up to the tree. The tailgate

is down and in the back of the truck is a ladder that is then propped against the tree. Oh. Around the base of the tree, there were like jagged rocks and Lainey was laying on the ground with a serious head injury to the back of her head. It looked like maybe she had fallen from the tree and struck her head on one of those rocks. Medics battled to save her life, and she was rushed to the hospital.

The injury to the back of Laney's head was gruesome. There was a fracture in her skull so large that a nurse later noted that her entire fist could fit in it. Oh. After the hospital in Charleville assessed Laney's injuries, she was airlifted to the Brisbane Women's Hospital where they would maybe be better equipped to treat her. At the hospital in Brisbane, Laney underwent an extensive examination to determine what other injuries she might have in addition to the skull fracture. The tree that Laney was presumed to have fallen from was a big ass tree. And they were speculating that she had fallen from a height of more than 15 feet.

So they did x-rays and CT scans. And they all showed the same thing. And they all showed the same thing. There were no injuries to her spleen, liver, intestines, pelvis, spine, neck. In fact, there were no injuries to her body except for the head wound. Oh, shit. Is that even possible? Is it?

Well, I don't know. That was definitely the question. But Lainey's head wound was just too bad. And after two days on life support, Louis, along with Lainey's family, made the difficult decision to remove her from life support. The doctors told them that likely Lainey had had no brain activity when she'd been brought to the hospital. At 9.47 a.m. on August 25, 2009, Lainey Coldwell was declared dead. Dakota lost her mom, Louie lost his partner of 18 years, and Lainey's parents lost her mom, Louie lost his partner of 18 years, and Laney's parents lost their daughter.

All as a result of a freak accident. Those party lights had been in that tree for years. Laney's mom, Patricia, remembered thinking shortly after her death, like, what was she doing? Why was she messing with him? Why now? Like, they'd been doing? Why was she messing with him? Why now? Like, they'd been up there like 15 years. Huh. But that's kind of the nature of a sudden loss.

You question things. You're like, you know, why was she doing this? How did this happen? What should we have done differently? Laney's death was declared an accident. She was cremated. A funeral was held. And then Louie and Dakota attempted to move forward with their lives without Laney. Laney's family, though, couldn't help but feel a bit suspicious of Louie in the days after her death.

Patricia knew that the couple had been having trouble and Lainey had even confided in her mom that she knew Louie was having an affair. She came to her mom and said that she'd gotten an STD, that she'd never been with anybody but Louie. So all that could be no kidding. Oh, what a terrible way to find out. No kidding. So she told her mom that she was planning to leave him, but she needed to, like, get ready. So she had withdrawn $200,000 from their joint bank account. Oh, shit.

And she told her mom that she was preparing to move to this property that they owned in Dundee Beach. She had asked her mom that day if she would consider coming to stay with her for a while, help her and Dakota kind of get settled and, you know, start over. She hadn't known anything as an adult, anything other than being with Louie. That would be so hard. Yes. Yeah. And so her mom was like,

you know what? I'll do whatever you need. I'll do you one better. If you want, I will sell my house here and I will move to Dundee with you. Wow. We can all start over. Whatever you need.

Wow. They had even spent some time, like two weeks, maybe like a month, a month before Lainey died. She and her mom and her stepdad had spent two weeks at that Dundee Beach property redoing it, getting it ready for her to move to under the guise that maybe they'd sell it. Like she hadn't told Louie that she was planning to leave. But his spidey senses had to be up, right? I'm sure.

And how can you oh god it'd be really hard to contain your shock and anger when you find out you've gotten an std and you're just trying to get your ducks in a row yeah yeah so obviously that move never happened laney never got the chance to leave and patricia had this sneaking suspicion that Laney's death wasn't actually the accident that it had been ruled. This suspicion only increased when she learned that Louie made an attempt to cash in on Laney's life insurance policy just two days after her death. It wasn't necessarily the action because that's fairly common because you have to cover funeral expenses and stuff like that. It was the amount of the policies that shocked her. She knew that Lainey and Louie had a $750,000 policy on each other. Lainey had told her about that.

Mm hmm. on each other. Laney had told her about that. But after Laney's death, Patricia learned that just two months before Laney died, Louie had taken out a $1.5 million policy on her. No.

Yeah, it's not good. I can answer your earlier question now. What's that? It was not a fall. It was not a fall. Yeah. So when Louie made the claim on that policy, the insurance company was suspicious as hell. Well, yeah.

Yeah. They're like, oh, this policy is just like a couple months old. What amazing timing that you got this policy. Okay. And so they put a hold on it. They wouldn't pay it out. Yeah, of course. Of course not.

They launched a major investigation into it. And they informed the police of their concerns. They're like, hey, we're looking into this guy. Maybe you'd like to look into him too. Yeah. And so the police started to, but the cause of death was listed as accidental. So there was like very little the police could do. Laney's mom and the insurance company

were not the only ones who had questions about Laney's accident, as it turned out. Stop me if this sounds familiar. Okay. Because this is almost identical to a case that I have covered on the last bonus episode. All right. Okay. So there's this guy, Sergeant Jerry Thornton, in this town like 80 miles away.

And he hears about this accident in Charlville. And he decides he's going to swoop in and take over. He decides he's going to look into it. He just he happened to be married to a woman from Charlville and they happened to be visiting Charlville the day after the accident. And just kind of like out of morbid curiosity, he drove by Laney's house. Which, respect, I would do it. We can't judge.

Exactly. I would absolutely do that. If I just happened to be in the town, yeah. Or in the same state as the town. Exactly. I would 100 percent do that. So he drives by the house and immediately he's like, well, that's fucking weird. What? still in the truck. And he noticed something that no one else had really

noticed in while attending to the accident. Right. The way that this ladder was leaning in the back of the truck, as soon as someone stepped on it, it would have slid and

fell. There was nothing keeping it in position. There's no way Laney ever climbed up the ladder. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. And so he's like, yeah, that's a problem. Like this looks extremely staged. Yeah.

problem like this looks extremely staged yeah and so like from that minute he was convinced that laney's death was no accident and so he just kind of like used his spare time to look into the case but it was a closed case it was an accident there was nothing he could do about it and so he just kind of like over the next like two years just put little bits and pieces of a case together about things that looked questionable to him. And in 2011, he like took that to his boss and his boss was like, yeah, I think that's enough. And so they reopened the case and launched an official investigation into Lainey Coldwell's death. Okay, so that is so similar to the case that I covered on the bonus episode, the Canadian case. But I feel so differently about this because it seems like this guy was just kind of curious and wanted to look into it. And then he was like, yeah, that looks bad.

When in the other case, the guy like clearly had a motive behind it. He was trying to get a promotion and make a name for himself. I totally don't feel like that's the case here. But I do think it's interesting because they're so similar and I have such like vastly different feelings about them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So in 2011, the cases officially reopened and they launched a death investigation to see, was this an accident? Was this a homicide? And over the next few years, Sergeant Thornton investigated this case completely on his own. Like he was the only person assigned to it. He basically spoke to everyone who had known the couple. And he put together a pretty compelling picture of who Louie really was. Turns out that Louie had a lot of secrets and that Laney had kind of figured him out. He was unfaithful.

We knew that already. Patricia knew that. But he'd also used his position as a supervisor at the slaughterhouse to more easily have his affair. Oh, gross. So he had his supervisor arrange trips to Korea for him using the company money.

And then he would like work overtime and not get paid for it. Uh-huh. So that Laney would never see him spending the money to take the trips. Oh, God. Yeah. That's weird. It's super weird. It's super weird that a supervisor would be like.

Yeah, why would. I have no idea. Okay. And so we know that Lainey had confided in her mom about the STD and all of that. So this is the detective kind of uncovers all of that. And he's like, okay. So when he speaks to Patricia, she's like, he learns all the STD and the affair and and how she was taking the money and they were, you know, setting up to leave. But it never happened.

And then he spoke to a bunch of people who knew Louie and Laney and multiple people said that on many occasions Louie had made like little like offhanded comments about how no one would ever take his daughter from him. Which is just like a weird thing to just be like. Was someone trying to take your daughter, sir? Right. Exactly. Like that's just a weird thing for something to just come up in conversation. So, yeah, that led the detective to like question like, did he find out that she was planning to leave? Yeah.

Yeah. He absolutely did. Yeah, exactly. And then they got a warrant to search his laptop. And they found Internet searches on poisoning and car crashes and head injuries. And then at Laney's funeral, he had been using his phone to look up vacation destinations for him and his girlfriend. Oh, gross. Yeah.

Yep. The detective also learned that Louie had, like, changed his story a few times about what had happened that day. He told a few that he panicked immediately when he found Laney on the ground and that he hadn't known what to do and that there was, like, leaves and blood all over her face. And so he hadn't been able to attempt CPR on her. But that wasn't true. She wasn't found with anything on her face. And then he told other people that. Well, why would you do CPR for someone who fell? Yeah, exactly.

OK. And then he told other people that, thank goodness he had that training as a police officer because he knew exactly what to do when he found Laney. Mm hmm. Laney. The biggest problem that the sergeant was having was that he couldn't explain Laney's injuries. She had no injuries to her body. They weren't consistent with a fall of even like 10 feet. With a fall of even like 10 feet.

Like experts were saying that like she'd have broken bones and they were estimating that she had fallen much farther than that to get that head injury. Right. And then it didn't quite match with the rocks. Like how did they make that impact on her head? Right. And so he started looking over photos taken at the scene and he noticed something at the base of the tree. In one

picture, there was a rusted antique iron sitting at the base of the tree. You know, one of the ones that you like heat up on the stove, like a big, yeah. And it appeared in the picture. Wait, did he smack her in the head with that?

That's the fucking murder weapon? It's the fucking murder weapon. And he didn't even move it? Nope. And no one noticed it. It wasn't taken. Oh, my God. And it disappeared.

It's pictured in one picture. There is clear blood on it in the picture. Oh, my God. Yeah. and then it just disappeared never to be seen again and so sergeant thornton's like well there's the fucking murder weapon yeah and so they like they put together like statistically like this is how what the what the weapon would be they make like a a mold of her skull and they're able to match up the iron with the impact on her skull. All of this investigation took seven years. In December of 2016, Louie was finally arrested and charged with the murder of Laney Coldwell.

When he was arrested, he told the police that they'd be buying him drinks soon to apologize for the mistake they'd made. Wow. Okay. Yeah. In 2017, Louie went to trial and pled not guilty. The prosecution told the jury that the single wound on Laney's head wasn't consistent with the fall. It couldn't have happened the way Louie said it had happened.

And they suggested that Louie had killed his wife knowing that she was going to leave him. He'd most likely struck her with that missing iron. They, you know, produced the picture and said, hey, we don't know where this is. And hey, doesn't that look like fucking blood on that on that iron right there? So they brought a whole bunch of experts and witnesses to the stand. They had an engineer testify that it was it would not have been possible for Lainey to climb that ladder. The second she stepped on the second rung,

it would have slipped out of place. She never would have made it up. Yeah. And they said her body was like on the opposite side of the tree from where the ladder was. So she would have, in order for the story about her falling,

she couldn't have fallen off the ladder. She would have had to climb all the way up, get well up into the tree, where the ladder was. So she would have, in order for the story about her falling, she couldn't have fallen off the ladder. She would have had to climb all the way up, get well up into the tree and then fall. Lainey's mom, Patricia, got on the stand and testified that everything that Lainey had told her, she suspected that Louie was having an affair. She was ready to leave him. She was preparing the house at Dundee Beach. She told them all about how they'd been fixing up that house and that that was just like a couple of weeks before she died. Yeah. She testified that Laney had told her she'd had enough and she couldn't put up with it anymore.

Two expert forensic pathologists testified that it was much more likely it was much more likely that Lainey Coldwell had been struck in the back of the head to sustain those injuries than a fall. A fall did not explain it. They kind of broke down that evidence. And then on on cross examination, the defense was like, well, is it possible that she fell from the tree? And they were both like, yes, it's possible. But it's extremely unlikely. Yeah. The defense attorney or the barrister.

Oh, yes. Which is an attorney. Australian style. attorney, Australian style, asked like something about like, what if, what if she had fallen and done a judo roll as she hit the ground, which I didn't really look that up, but I assume it's like, you know, like tuck and roll type of situation. And they're like, well, and they're like, wouldn't that, he was like, wouldn't that protect her body? And the expert was like, yeah't that? He was like, wouldn't that protect her body?

And the expert was like, yeah, I guess, man. But I mean, if that blow is what did it, then she wouldn't. That doesn't make sense. It makes no sense. It makes no sense. They actually brought in the skull, like, model, 3D model that they had made and showed that unantique iron, not the one that was pictured because they didn't have that, but they showed how it fit in. And Jury actually, like, passed the skull model around and got to see it and examine it. Lainey Caldwell's aunt, Joan Caldwell, got on the stand and she talked about, actually, she didn't physically get on the stand. She was over video conference.

Oh, OK. Thank you. Yes. got on the stand and she talked about actually she didn't physically get on the stand she was over video conference oh okay thank you yes she talked about how weird louie acted at the hospital after they'd flown her into brisbane he was like she's gonna die she's gonna die he's just like walking around he's like yelling he's like we just had sex two hours ago. Oh, my God. What a fucking weird thing to say. Yeah. Yeah, that's really weird. Yeah. It's really weird. Is this your impression of a grieving spouse? We just had sex two hours ago.

Yeah. And then he like she said he was talking to someone on the phone, but she didn't know who he was talking to. And he just kept saying, I don't know why there were fucking rocks around the tree. So likely he was probably talking to no one and just like trying to look like he was really upset about the rocks. Yeah. Joan Coldwell, Lainey's aunt,

also testified that that very morning, Lainey and Louie and Dakota had come over to Patricia's house. They came over every Sunday morning. She just happened to be in town visiting that day. And Louie mowed the yard while Patricia visited with Laney and Dakota. And when Louie came in from mowing the yard, Joan complimented him on it. And he was like, oh yeah, I mow lawns and Lainey climbs trees. What?

Yeah. And she just thought it was like a weird fucking thing he said. And then that day, she dies from falling from a tree. Yeah, they said this was like, this was an example of like premeditation. He's trying to match,

like pre-tell the story so it doesn't seem as fucking weird when he's like, oh my God, Lainey fell out of a tree today. Which she does all the time. Remember how I told you guys she climbs trees? It's always important in any household to have the one person who climbs the trees. Yes, exactly. Because that happens so often. It's so often that you need someone to climb the trees, which is that you were Norm. It's obviously me because he's afraid of heights. That's right. And when that time comes, I will get up there. A good friend of Lainey and Louie's got on the stand. His name was Bradley Ogden. And he said he and his wife

had been good friends with Lainey and Louie. And a couple of months before Laney's death, she had actually confided in him that she was thinking of leaving Louie. Things weren't going well. She thought he was having an affair. He also went on to testify that he and his wife had gone to Laney's funeral and that he had spoken to Louie that night.

And he thought he was super weird. He thought he was putting on the performance of a lifetime. He just didn't seem like himself at all. Yeah. And he was playing the part of a grieving spouse. Ew, that would be so chilling to witness. Somebody that you know so well, someone that you consider a good friend. And then you're like.

And they're like, oh, no. Oh, I'm so sad. So they played a couple of tapes from the insurance investigation that had gone on. In one of them, there was like a clip. So this is maybe the reason that the insurance investigation was initially launched. So this is maybe the reason that the insurance investigation was initially launched. So shortly after Louie purchased the policy, he called to check on like the fine print. Like what if someone got in an accident, but they weren't wearing their seatbelt and they died?

Would that still be considered an accidental death or would they be like at fault because they didn't have their seatbelt on? Lord almighty. Yeah. And so they have this because every call you make is recorded. Yeah. So they have this recorded call. Yeah. And I think that is probably in addition to the fact that the policy was so new when he

tried to claim it. They were like, okay, this looks super weird. New and large. I mean, 1.5 million. Yes. There was also a couple of different people who were introduced at trial who worked with Louie. And he had asked them to lie to help him purchase this policy. Okay.

purchase this policy okay because of the size of the policy both louis and laney had to be present when it was purchased oh my god did he get someone to step in and pretend to be laney oh yeah and he like guilted someone into it because like that was part of the investigation once it was launched like they all they purchased it online so basically all you had to do was like click a little box. Yes, she's present, whatever. But then when they're investigating it, they're like, was she really present? And so they start looking into when it was purchased and Laney would have been at work and Louie would have been home. And so he gets a couple of coworkers to be like, oh, Laney actually left early that day. Isn't that weird?

So, yeah, she was totally with Louie when he bought the policy. And he got them to lie by making some sob story about how if he didn't get that money from that policy, he and Dakota would be left with nothing, and he's just trying to take care of his daughter. Okay. Honestly, I was like, these people are terrible. But, yeah, if someone came to me with that, and it's like, I was like, these people are terrible. But yeah, if so. Yeah. Yeah. If someone came to me with that and it's like, oh, well, the insurance company is going to have to pay up. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That story would probably get me to lie to. Yeah. Like, oh, gosh. Yeah. You know, you and Dakota are going through such a tough time, of course. Because this is happening years earlier. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Of course, I want you and Dakota to be taken care of.

Yeah. Insurance companies suck. Yep. Yeah. We all hate insurance companies. Yes. So sure. Sure. Yes.

I think that story would work. Yeah. Also, I mean, what if someone came to you with a sob story about like, hey, I really want to go bang my mistress on vacation and kill my wife. OK. So sympathetic. Oh, no. It's funny you ask that because the next person to testify was Louie's supervisor who was like, yeah, you know, I'm not proud of it. But I did help him organize a trip to South Korea to visit his mistress.

And I used the company funds to pay for it. And then he paid them back by working overtime. And I did, you know, you know. What the hell? I know. Why? What did he have on his boss? I don't know.

I don't know. Why on earth would you do that? It's so, I have no idea. And he doesn't really go into why he did it. He does go on to testify that he thought Lainey was amazing. He really liked her. He thought she was a talented woman. She was painting his house for him.

And one day while she's painting the house, she confides in him that she thinks Louis is having an affair. And he answers by saying, ask me no questions. I'll tell you no lies. Oh, come on yeah yeah what the hell i know i know evidence about the laptop computer was brought in and the computer analyst talked about all of those Internet searches for poisons and accidental deaths. And then his search history from his phone, the day of Laney's funeral, he was like booking a limousine and looking into a booking a hotel room and all kinds of stuff. Under cross-examination, again, the defense barrister was able to say that pretty much anybody could have accessed

that laptop. Okay. It wasn't necessary. This computer analyst had to be like, yeah, you're right. I can't prove that it was Louis who looked it up. But it was his laptop. Yeah, exactly. They had a human... You know what I like to do sometimes?

What's that? I like to just break into somebody's house. Burgle, if you will. But instead of actually taking anything, I just, you know, book myself a limo somewhere. I look up vacation spots, you know, just stuff like that. Absolutely. Just do some real weird Googling.

Do some poison searches. Do all kinds of stuff. Okay. I do have to say, this makes me a little bit nervous because to find this case, I Googled murder that looked like an accident. And then David, tragically. You know. Like, my search history is not great.

Well, yeah, but at trial. Yeah. They'll be able to say, hey, don't worry. Ignore all those poems she wrote. She's got a true crime podcast. It's a podcast. And you'll look at the jury and go, you've probably heard of it. And they'll be like, no.

Yeah. Like, no. What's that? No, no absolutely not as you probably already know i'm the host of a podcast can we boss yeah okay everybody we're at we're big assholes right now we're big assholes as usual, like three years ago. We were very early in the podcast community. We got an email from someone and the email started, as you probably already know. I'm the host of insert a podcast we had never heard of. That no one had ever heard of.

And so now our favorite thing to do is say, as you probably already know. And so now our favorite thing to do is say, as you probably already know, my reputation does precede me. Does precede me. So they brought to the stand a final expert. This was a human. A human expert. Let me get this right. A human impact engineering expert. So this is someone who had spent their entire career looking at how bodies react upon impact.

He did a lot of examinations of car accidents, stuff like that. And he testified that her injury was not at all consistent with a fall from a tree. She would have had to have many other injuries to her body. It did not match up. He said at the very least, she would have had to have had a broken neck to hit her head at that rate of impact

to cause that kind of injury. There's no way her neck would not have broken. I'm feeling kind of jealous because this guy, like, got into a pretty good area of expertise and I myself have only studied parrot impact. And I am so rarely called upon in a court of law. But I've got my zip-up hoodie ready. Ready to go. Yeah. Ready to go. Yeah.

Ready to go. Let me tell you, you toss a parrot against a wall. You will be there. I will tell you whether that parrot did that accidentally or whether that was murder. So, as I mentioned, this expert was the last witness that the Crown presented, which is like the Crown is like the prosecution. The TV show that we all know about. Australian style. Have you watched the Crown yet?

I have not watched it. You know what? I almost called you. What? I almost called you a dumb bitch. I was like, well, that's a little harsh. That's really harsh. But it's a good show.

I want to watch it. Do you? I do. Do you really? I'm busy watching other stuff right now. I just watched Alan V. Farrow. I'm fucking watching I Love You Now Die right now. Boy, you are like.

I know. I know. What year is it, Brandi? Exactly. I'm also watching Boardwalk Empire right now. So, you are like... I know. I know. What year is it, Brandon? Exactly. I'm also watching Boardwalk Empire right now, so I just can't... Listen, we just got HBO Max,

so I have a whole bunch of shit to watch. There's this program called The Sopranos, and I am just... We're just gonna watch that next? I've never seen it! I haven't seen it either.

I can't even make fun of you. Okay, so The Crown rests after presenting this last expert. I haven't seen it either. I can't even make fun of you. Okay, so the crown rests after presenting this last expert. And Phil Hardcastle, the defense barrister, stands up and says, We will not be giving any evidence. Which is a fucking bold strategy. Bold or lazy. Yeah. Cotton, I know you're referencing something there.

It's not going over my head, I'll tell you that. I don't know what you're referencing. Dodgeball. Alright. Oh, dodgeball. Shh. So finally it was time for closing arguments and in closing arguments Barrister Phil Hardcastle said

listen, this just doesn't make any fucking sense. If Louie Mahoney wanted to kill his wife, he wouldn't strike her in the front yard of their house. Come on, people. They go fishing all the time where the crocodiles roam. He'd just push her in the water. Doesn't make any sense that he'd do it right there where busybody neighbors could see what he was up to. I always think it's interesting when they do this because on the one hand, it's like,

yeah, there's, if it's gotten to a trial. Yeah. They didn't do the murder correctly. Yeah. Or in a way that really makes it look like an accident. Yeah. That doesn't mean they didn't do it. Yeah.

I mean, this guy's probably just full of rage and murdered his wife. Exactly. Yeah, there would have been other ways he could have done it that would have helped him avoid being caught. Like, I don't't know not getting a life insurance policy two months before you kill her right right he said this whole thing was an accident it was accepted as an accident in the beginning and then the life insurance policies come to light and all of a sudden we got ourselves a murder. How much do you want to bet that when the cop showed up on the scene, he was like, oh, I used to be a cop?

Yeah. Oh, I guarantee you. That's like the first thing. I guarantee you. Mr. Hardcastle. And then they all jerked each other's ding-dongs. Did you find that in your research? I did not.

That they jerked each other's ding-dongs? I did not find that. You know, when one cop comes up to another cup, that's the first thing they have to do. That's immediately what they do? Did this help that I made this hand gesture? Yeah, I didn't know what I was saying. So that's very helpful. Very illustrative.

He also reminded the jury that all of the experts had had to concede that they couldn't rule out that this had happened because of a fall. Well, sure, man. It just seemed extremely unlikely. And he finished by saying, I can't rule out that one day I'll get a modeling contract.

Exactly. He said, people survive accidents all the time relatively unscathed. Unscathed? Unscathed. Did I say unscathed? You said unscathed. That's when you don't get a scab. That's like unscathed, Australian style.

For a second, I really did think, huh, is that what they say in Australia? He said, it's not an improbability that she was up in that tree. And it's not an improbability that she slipped and fell. He also suggested that the jury might want to scrutinize some of the witness's testimony. Okay. He said, if he was going to kill his wife, why would he be walking around talking about how no one would ever take his daughter

from him? Maybe he's dumb. Maybe he is dumb. Do you ever think of that? Yeah. In his closing address, the Crown Prosecutor Carl Heaton said that Mahoney was an ex-policeman who knew enough about crime scenes to make it look believable on first glance. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. And he knew that they'd be so busy jerking each other's ding-dongs, they wouldn't have time to... Yeah, thank you. Exactly. Oh, people are going to hate that joke. They don't like it when we joke about the police. He also reminded the jury about Mahoney's weird behavior right after Laney died. The big show he'd put on at the hospital,

and then the performance of his lifetime he'd given at the funeral. After 13 days of evidence. Okay, so this is really interesting to me. This is something that doesn't happen here, but could be good, I think. Okay. So this is a trial, I think. Okay. So this is how it happens. This is a trial, Australian style. Okay. So they do their closing arguments.

They finish presenting all their evidence, do their closing arguments, and then the judge summarizes the evidence to the jury. He gives them a summary of everything that's been presented, explains it all to them, and then they get the case to go deliberate on. Yeah. I think that could be great. Depends on the judge. I guess it does.

That's true. So after 13 days of evidence, the judge summarized the case and then the jury took less than four hours to reach a verdict. Yeah, I mean, you would. Yeah. to reach a verdict. Yeah, I mean, you would. Yeah. In November of 2017, Louie was found guilty

of the murder of Laney and cries of yes were heard around the courtroom. At the sentencing, Laney's niece, Georgia Grant, gave a statement about how the murder had devastated

their tight-knit family and how Dakota asked about her mom. And when it was explained to her that her mom was now an angel, she said, I don't want an angel. I want my mom. Oh, God. Yeah.

Yeah. Louie was sentenced to life in prison with eligibility for parole after 13 years. Wow. That is fast. Yeah, I agree. In a press conference following the sentencing, Laney's family praised the determination of Sergeant Thornton and said that it was his hard

work that had led to them getting justice all these years later. Louie has appealed his conviction, but in 2019, it looks like his initial appeal was denied. That's a shame. And that's

the story about a not-at-all accidental fall. Yeah, no. That's terrible. Yeah. I think I'm a little obsessed with these accident cases. I think I might need to step away for a bit. Make sure you watch where you step.

I know. Very good. Thank you. That's what comedy people are coming up for. Yeah. Why can't people just... If you don't want to be... Divorce.

Yeah. Yeah. Both of our cases. Yes. Just get divorced. Just get divorced. Why can't people just... If you don't want to be... Yeah, yeah. Both of our cases. Yes. Just get divorced. Just get divorced. Or, well, and in my case, get divorced, but also... Yeah. Move the fuck on.

Exactly. One thing I didn't say about my lady, fucking Sheila. Your time has passed, Kristen. I'm sorry. I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding. I know. I should have. I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding. I know. I should have brought this up.

No, bring it up. Everyone feels the same way. So, you know, she blabbed and blabbed and blabbed about this, you know, love triangle at work. There was no triangle. Well, no. She was just on the outside looking in. Yeah, she was like banging on the glass. I've got poetry, no. She was just on the outside looking in. Yeah, she was like banging on the glass. I've got poetry, Nelson.

Annalisa has no idea who she is because why would she? Anyway, so she talked to her friends. See, I had to cut a lot from these trials because, you know, anyway. Yeah. She talked to some friends about this love triangle constantly. love triangle constantly and then they found out about someone at her workplace named analisa who was murdered and they started to get oh yeah sketched out uh-huh and then you know freaking sheila had like a cut on her and i she made up some excuse for that cut but yeah oh my gosh so they had they had to be like, what happened to Annalise?

And she was like, oh, she moved. Oh, did she? Yeah, now everything's fine. Quit asking about it. Oh, this love triangle that I've talked about constantly and wouldn't shut up about,

now all of a sudden there's been a weird murder that's unsolved at my workplace and now I don't want to talk about that love triangle anymore. No. Yeah.

Nope, that's unacceptable. I agree. Anyway, shall we. No. Yeah. No, that's unacceptable. I agree. Anyway, shall we move on? Yeah. Do you want to take some questions from the Discord? I do want to take questions from the Discord. But how? How?

Why? Who? Where? I believe you're asking about our Patreon. I sure am. To get in the Discord, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level. That gets you in there. That gets you a bonus episode every month and access to all the previous bonus episodes,

which we're about to have 21 out. Hello. Pretty exciting. At the $7 level, you get all that, plus you get a monthly bonus video. You get inducted on the podcast. you get a monthly bonus of video. You get inducted on the podcast. You get a little card with a sticker and our autographs. And then we also have the Bob Moss level.

It gets you all that stuff we already talked about. Already talked about. Plus, you get episodes ad-free, and you get them a day early. Plus, I know you're thinking, what more could there be? 10% off merch. Brandy, you did that beautifully. Thank you. You're not just pretty.

You're smart, too. Yeah, absolutely. You look so uncomfortable. I am. Okay, I wanted, this could be nothing. But B bidets for brandy wants to know what's the most impulsive thing you've bought on amazon oh that sex toy you got shut up that's not a sex toy you know what i bought the other day i'm and i'm very excited about it like so excited about it okay tell me it's a very big drying rack are you hanging all of your stuff to dry now no but i like to wash my quilts

oh yeah and the thing is you know i drape them over the treadmill. But as you can see. You use the treadmill so much. You really do use your treadmill like every day. Yeah, I mean, this is not an accident what you see here today. So, yeah, what I'm telling you is I have a big ass drying rack. So I'm just going to be like washing quilts just all the time. Left and right. Willy nilly. It's not going to even be a problem. I'm not even going to be like washing quilts just all the time. Left and right. Willy nilly!

It's not going to even be a problem. I'm not even going to put them on my treadmill anymore because I'm going to have this drying rack. Norm, I think I'm kind of defensive because Norm last night shouted to me, did you just buy a big ass drying rack? Yes, sir, I did. Yes, sir, I did. Yes, I did. Thrilled. Thrilled about

it. I won't even let him use it as punishment. I really overthink my Amazon purchases. I put things in my cart. By the way, Amazon sucks. We don't support it. Well, we do support it. Anyway, we know it's problematic.

I put things in my cart. Really think about it. Are you not an impulse purchaser? I'm really not. I'm really in my cart. Really think about them. Are you not an impulse purchaser? I'm really not. I'm really not. Okay. I can't think of anything that I've impulse bought. Sometimes you got to go balls out.

You got to get yourself a big drying rack. I'm going to go home and go balls out. You know what? I say that, though. Do you know how long I've wanted that drying rack? A long time, right? Two years. Yeah.

So I'm really not an impulse purchaser either desert peach wants to know if you could change your first name to something different what would it be brandy do you want to do you want to be less hot no i mean more hot more hot to foxy i notice it ends with the e sound so that goes with my theory of if your name ends with the e sound you sound hot hmm hmm hmm what'd you change your name to not shelly we learned that because on an episode you went like like on a real rant about how shelly's the dumbest name you could change your name to. Okay. I have no memory of that. But I hate the name Shelly.

And I argued that your middle name is Michelle. Your family sometimes calls you Shell. Yeah, that's not an argument. That's just the truth. I can still hate it. You know? Come on now. I'm starting to recall this now. Yeah, I don't know what I'd change it. You know? Come on now. I'm starting to recall this now.

Yeah, I don't know what I'd change it to. I'd change it to something less basic, though. I'll tell you that. I was always jealous that Kyla got a pretty unique. My name's pretty unique. I don't have a lot of brandies. No. It's not unique enough.

I always wanted a name that you could have a nickname for. Like, I wanted a name that had, like, a shorter version. Bran. No, nobody calls me Bran. My mom calls me Bran. Yeah, I was going to say your mom. My mom does call me Bran. Have you met your mother? Yeah, your mother calls you Bran.

Nobody calls me Bran, except for my mother, who calls me Bran all the time. She really does call me Bran all the time. So you want a name like Margaret, so people can call you Peg all the time. So you want to name like Margaret so people can call you Peggy. No. I want to name like Alexandra so I can be called Alex. Oh. Or Nicole so I can be called

Nikki. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yep. Pretty cool. When I was a kid I had a name that I really wanted to be which i no longer like to be that name for reasons i can't explain to you i feel the same way oh i can explain them to you i can't explain them to the podcast wait say it nope patty please cut that. Yeah, cut that. I always wanted to be... Oh.

I know. I know. That's worse than Brandy. That's like the trashiest trash. It is. Oh, God. We can't have any of this on there. You gotta cut all that, Patty.

Patty, please cut that. Okay. What? Fiery1 the the dairy boy wants to know do you know about the nexium cult and brandy do you think you could have fallen into it i know all about it here's the reason that i don't think i could have fallen into it you are not attracted to men who play volleyball no i never would have believed i was hot enough to be in that cult everybody who's in it is super hot. Only the women.

That's true. But yeah, exactly. Do you see those dudes? There's no way they're interested in me in this cult. I'll see you guys later. Have a great day. Your low self-esteem would keep you out of the next year of cults. I don't know. You know, it's so easy when you hear about these cult things to be like, well, I'm too smart for that.

But let me tell you something. Seeing footage of that sweaty man playing volleyball, I'm like, I don't get it. What? That's his dong flipping around while he's playing volleyball. That's a generous interpretation. I'm going to ask this question I think people might like to know because you have very strong opinions on it. Okay.

Decapitated head with cement shoes would like to know gum or mints? I do feel very strongly about it. I know you do. Okay. Okay. I will share. I will share. I do have quite a strong opinion about this.

I know you do. I think that gum is disgusting. Disgusting. I'm going to put something in my mouth, chew on it, and then spit it out? When I could have something that just dissolves. Yeah. The choice is clear. Oprah feels the same way.

What about? In Singapore? I don't know if this is true. I think this is true. I think in Singapore, gum is not allowed. Just in all of Singapore? That can't possibly be true. It might be.

Outlawed? You know what? I'm Googling it, baby. Singapore? Gum. be true it might be outlawed you know what i'm googling it baby singapore gum singapore gum law oh yes i'm moving to singapore chewing gum okay suck on this chewing gum is banned chewing gum is banned in singapore so leave it at home when packing your bags. How did you know that?

That's such a weird fact for you to know. Those of us in the gum-hating industry know these things. It's kind of like those child porn people they all know each other. What about when you were a kid? You had a piece of Bubblicious? Well, sure. Sure. And I like the way gum tastes and everything.

The concept is disgusting to me. And so if I have the choice, I will go for a mint. Do you have preferences on this or are you not quite as? I have no strong feelings. I like them both. You know what I fucking love? What? Those minties that we got sent from Australia.

It's okay. It's like one of my favorite candies is now and, where it's like hard and then it gets chewy. It's basically a Now and Later mint. It's like hard when you first put it in and then it gets chewy. It's amazing. You had one. You didn't like it. And you were like, you could take the whole bag.

Oh, okay. I was going to say, I don't remember this. I was like, thank you. And I've been pacing myself on them because I love them so much. They're only available in Australia. And there was one for you. Oh. Here for the cookies wants to know, Brandy, I've been dying to ask.

I assume Jeopardy is in your game show network rotation. What do you think of the guest hosts so far? So I haven't caught them all. I've seen some of them. And they're good, but they're not Alex Trebek, obviously. Rest in peace. Who's the best one?

Oh, is this just even too soon to talk about? It's too soon! Okay, we'll skip-a-roo. Two bobs, one stone. Once to know. Have either of you scheduled your vacs or gotten it yet? No, because we live in Kansas and Missouri.

Yep. It's a real shit show out here. It's a wild, wild west out here. I'm hoping to get mine soon. Same. Yeah, I guess that doesn't really answer it. We're hoping to get mine soon. Same. Yeah, I guess that doesn't really answer it. We're hoping to get one soon. So Johnson County, which is where I live, just opened up the interest questionnaire to everyone.

So I have completed that so they know I'm interested in getting it. Yeah. Which then puts me in some kind of line. Yeah. But who knows how far back I am in that. My mom hasn't even gotten to get it yet.

And she's my grandma's caretaker. So she's like in the second phase. Mm-hmm. So. Hopefully soon. Steve, my stepdad just got a his today. Yeah.

Oh, yesterday. My parents drove like two and a half hours to get theirs. Which is something that's happening a lot in our area because in more rural areas, which are not that far from the city, they have like an overabundance of the they've gotten a bigger allotment than people are taking. And so they're like, hey, you in the big city, come drive out and get them. So some people have been doing that. Oh, Carlos, the serial killer, wants wants to know did you witness any school fights did you ever witness a fight in high school oh man so exciting i'm sure i did what do you mean i'm sure i did like you don't remember every second i don't have like a big do you have a recollection of a big fight? Yeah. It was great. Tell me everything.

It was my freshman year of high school. Picture it. I had never seen a fight before in my life. Didn't know it was a thing that could happen. Yeah. All of a sudden, I remember I was walking to class. I mean, it's really not much of a story. It was just two girls.

Two girls got into a fight. Of course it was two girls. What do you mean, of course it was? Yeah. I think boys, so boys aren't going to fight in the moment. They're going to arrange a fight? Of course it was two girls. What do you mean of course it was? Yeah. I think boys aren't going to fight in the moment. They're going to arrange a fight. You think? I do. I think girls are going to take their

earrings off right then and fight. Throw down. Huh. I recall a couple of fights. Okay. I think they were all between girls. Interesting. Do you recall any fights between boys? Like, after school, we're going to blah, blah, blah.

I think that'd be so much more terrifying. Just get it out of the way. Just get out of the way. Right? You're going to let the suspense build. I remember there being talks of fights after school, but I never. But no one had the nuts. And I never saw one. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the boys know one had the nuts and i never saw one

so the boys didn't have the nuts at our high school yeah that's exactly what i did okay i'm tempted to answer this question it's very personal though so let's ask it and then maybe what does your vagina look like but because i've recently learned that I apparently am weird here, too. What? A lot of things that I do that are weird, apparently. What? Decapitated head with cement shoes. Wants to know, do you sit or stand when you wipe? Oh, that is personal. I always, well, I pretty much always sit.

Yeah, I'm a stander. Yeah, sometimes I stand. I stand when I wipe. Yeah, David's sister said that's weird. Kayla told me I'm a freaking weirdo because I stand when I wipe. Um, I don't think it's weird. Yeah, I get the job done way better that way. For years, you were doing the job poorly.

But then, last weekend, you're like, you know what? I need to step it up a notch. I need to get everything. Ophelia Heaney wants to know, what old person thing do you do? My answer? I put my robe on over my clothes and drink my morning coffee, yell at kids to stay off my yard. We built it. We just built a house and a kid has already caused

a divot, so it's valid. Well, I'm very excited about my huge drying rack. Yeah. I think I do lots of old lady stuff. I know. I do too. I do too. What you got, Brandy? Oh my gosh. I know that I have lots of old lady habits. Nothing is coming to mind right now, though.

Well, I love Mimi's. Mimi's Cafe. Which is just an old lady restaurant. Yeah, it is. It truly is. I mean, you might as well be going to... Well, there's nothing else in that... There's nothing.

Luby's Cafeteria. Do they still have those? I don't think those are around anymore. No, they don't. No. I love puzzles. You do. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I like cross-stitching. Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. But you are 87, though, so you are an old lady. I am an old lady. There you go.

Very good. I sleep with a heating pad. Wait, you sleep with a heating pad? I do. Is it under you or over you? It's under me, and it has a two-hour timer, so everybody calm down. It turns off. Oh, okay, okay.

Everybody calm down. Yeah, I have really bad sciatica since having London and it like especially at the end of the day it's the worst and so when I get into bed it's like soothing to have that I love my heating pad yeah

the only good thing to come from my terrible medical issue last year was my mom brought over a heating pad now I have that thing on all the time constantly sometimes sometimes if I'm cold I just bust out my heat pack.

Well, yeah. Yeah. Come on now. Holy shit. Is today St. Patrick's Day? Sure is. Oh, my God. All day.

This is what happens when you never leave the house. All murderers love candles. It's a three-part question. Okay. Okay. Do you say bagel or bagel? What? Bagel.

Bagel. Uh-huh. For sure, bagel. I didn't know people said bagel. What's your favorite bagel flavor? I mean, are we going sweet or savory? See? I only like a sweet bagel.

I don't like savory bagels. I like blueberry. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Have you ever done? All right. All right. Calm down.

What do we got here? What do we got? Blueberry bagel. Okay. I'm with you. Strawberry cream cheese. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. She'm with you. Strawberry cream cheese. Whoa. Whoa.

Whoa. She's wild. Mixing your fruits. It's kind of a wild berry combination you got there. That's right. I bet that would be quite good. The only time I enjoy a savory bagel is really if I'm going to eat just like a plain bagel.

Plain bagel? Keep your face to yourself. I was wondering how to keep your face to yourself. And make a sandwich out of it. Yeah. Bagel sandwich. Bacon, egg, and cheese bagel sandwich. Very good.

I'm a fan of the everything bagel. Of course you are. Don't. good. I'm a fan of the everything bagel. Of course you are. Look on your face. Of course you are.

You're disgusting. I will not defend myself. You must turn the other cheek when someone makes fun of your bagel preference. Oh, there was a third part to that question. Okay. It's very important. Do you engage in bagel shaming? Yeah, Brandy does.

What part of the bagel do you eat first, the top or the bottom? I don't think I have a thing. No, I don't think I have. I prefer the top, but, you know, sometimes you save the best for last. See, I actually prefer the bottom typically because it's usually thinner. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

You see, I couldn't have murdered her because she's so much bigger than me. I prefer the thinner. I prefer the thinner. I prefer the thinner. Obviously. Ooh. What? What you got? If you had to come up with a Margaret to Peggy style nickname for your own name, what would it be?

I'll do you. You do me. I would never do this. I'm doing it for you. You do me. I would never do this. I'm doing it for you. You are now. I've got one for you. I've got yours. Okay. Missy. I'm so much hotter now that I'm Missy.

My name's Kristen, but all my friends call me Missy. Oh, yeah? Yeah. You know what you are? You're Sheila. No! You are. I actually had, like, a line of thinking. There's no way you get to Sheila from Brandy. There's no way you get to Peggy from Margaret.

So the way that I get to Sheila from Brandy is of none of your concern. I went from Kristen to Chrissy to Missy. I went from Brandy to Sheila. Sheila. No steps in between. With one big leap. You will take your new name and you will like it. Not a question.

But Mr. Kabisma, Mr. Krabisma says Peggy should be short for Pegasus. I agree. That makes so much more sense than Margaret. Oh, Dogs Love Bones wants to know, how is the new little puppy, Kristen? Oh, she's good. And I say that even though she pooped in the living room today. She's so sweet. She's so cute.

She's getting braver by the minute. She is. Which means she's getting braver by the minute. She is. Which means she's still terrified of everything. But man, she let Brandy have it today. Bark, bark, bark. She is ferocious from the safety of her couch. She also did a weird growl thing at Brandy while she was stretching. So she can multitask.

I don't mean to brag about my puppy. She's a sweetie. You know what I think it's time for, Kristen? Supreme Court Inductions. That's great. I have not pulled it up yet, so let's sing about it. It was a very nice song. Thank you.

it was a very nice song thank you i'm reading um songwriter by dolly parton and clearly i'm quite inspired is that what you call that inspiration do you think i'm as good or better than dolly spat everywhere i just took a giant drink right when you said that. And the answer is obviously better. Duh. Fucking love Dolly Parton. You a Dolly fan?

Of course. Okay, all right, calm down. Of course. Calm down. Jolene. Jolene. Jolene. Jolene. Jolene. Jolene. Jolene.

That's the worst cover of Jolly Parton. It's terrible. It's terrible. We're so sorry, guys. Your little pink Kristen just ran by. Yeah, it's zooming around. You know, today we're naming names and favorite cookies. And I just want everyone who's inducted today to know that he talks about you in his sleep.

And there's nothing that I can do to keep from crying when he calls your name Lisa P. Wonderful. Shortbread cookies. It took you a while. Jenny Gormley. Peanut butter cookies. Emily. The Meyer cookies with that thick icing and soft cookie.

I know exactly what you mean. Marcy Stone. Snickerdoodle. Arianne. Fig rolls. Ashley Eccles. My mother's snickerdoodle, which contains actual Snickers. All right.

What? What? What? That's good. I call bullshit. No Snickerdoodle has Snickers in it. Her mom's do. That sounds...

Your mom does. Sophie Painter. Party Rings. What the fuck is that? I don't know. White chocolate macadamia nuts Subway cookies. People are here for the Subway cookies. Does Subway do average sandwiches but great cookies?

Amazing cookies? Maybe they only seem amazing in contrast to the Submar sandwich. Because you just had a shitty sandwich. Liz Plank. My grandmother's molasses. Alyssa. Chocolate chip toffee. Oh, yeah. That's a good cookie.

I said that really weird. Oh, yeah. What I wouldn't do. Oh, no. Brooke Bove. Any sandwich cookie with a creamy filling. What I wouldn't do. Oh, no. Brooke Bove. Any sandwich cookie with a creamy filling. Theodora J.

Pecan Turtle Delights. Kaylee Migoliti. Chocolate Chip. Haiti. Snickerdoodle. Brenda. Oatmeal Raisin. Danny Kessel Odom. I don't have a favorite because I don't eat sweets much.

Well, all right. Sarah T. Mexican wedding cookie. Athena Dean. Chewy chocolate chip and salted caramel. Monica Zettel. Iced oatmeal. Shauna Blackwood.

White chocolate macadamia nut. Welcome to the Supreme Court! Holy shit, Kristen, do I have news for you. What's that? Lots of people list crumble cookies as their favorite. We looked it up. We found out there's not a crumble around here. We were mistaken!

Didn't we find one in Overland Park? Oh, I didn't remember that. I was gonna tell you there was one in Overland Park. Oh, my God. We looked it up on the episode. Maybe we cut that part. But we for sure looked it up and we saw it was in Overland Park. I didn't remember.

And then you bragged. You were like, so I can go there and you can't. I was like, well, obviously I can just go to Overland Park. You're like, no, you have to stay in Missouri. No? No memory of this? This was like two weeks ago? No, I got really excited because an ad for Crumble Cookies came up on my Facebook the other day, and I was like, we do have one!

Breaking news, everyone. There's a Crumble Cookies in Overland Park. This sounds sponsored. However, it is not. Anyway, thank you for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us please find us on social media we're on facebook twitter instagram reddit patreon please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen head on over to apple podcasts leave us a rating leave us a review and then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics podcast adjourned and now for a note about our process. I read a

bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from Vengeance, Killer Coworkers episode, Obsession at the Office, Murderpedia, and an episode of Killer Women I got my info from an article for The Mirror by Gail Shortland A series of articles for Sunshine Coast Daily by Peter Hardwick and The Court Record For a full list of our sources visit lgtcpodcast.com Any errors are of course ours but please don't take our word for it

Go read their stuff.