Let's Go To Court! - 171: An Intruder & A Real Estate Agent

Episode Date: April 28, 2021

Julene Simko called 911 in a panic. She’d just discovered her husband dead in their bed. He’d been shot in the back of the head by an intruder. She’d already grabbed a gun and fired two shots to scare off the attacker, but she feared the person was still in the house. But who could the intruder be? Julene and Jeremy’s home in rural Vermilion, Ohio, was remarkably secure. They had multiple guard dogs, a security system, and plenty of guns. Who could have gotten past all those safeguards and murdered Jeremy Simko? Then Kristin tells us about real estate agent Beverly Carter. In 2014, Beverly was the top selling and listing agent for Crye Leike Realtors. The previous year, she’d sold $12 million in real estate -- no small feat in central Arkansas. So when a man calling himself Steven Adams reached out to her about buying a new house, Beverly was all ears. Steven said that he and his wife, Crystal, were relocating to the area. They were cash buyers. That meant a quick sale for Beverly. But Beverly was cautious. She corresponded with Steven by phone and email for a few weeks. When he asked to meet her out at a rural property, she insisted that his wife Crystal meet them there, too. Crystal got on the phone and assured Beverly she’d be there. But when Beverly arrived at the home, Crystal was nowhere to be found. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: A Dateline episode, titled, “The Client” A Web of Lies episode, titled, “Final Sale” “Realtor Murder,” by Arkansas Online, compiled from Arkansas Democrat-Gazette Archives “The Beverly Carter Story,” by Stewart Title on YouTube Beverlycarterfoundation.org In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Julene Simko” episode, Snapped “Vemilion woman goes on trial in 2009 murder” by Keith Reynolds, The Morning Journal “Julene Simko won’t look at photos of husband’s body during murder trial” by Keith Reynolds, The Morning Journal “No physical evidence Vermilion woman performed CPR on dying husband, ex-Lorain County Coroner says” by Keith Reynolds, The Morning Journal “Defense rests without calling witnesses in Vermilion woman’s murder trial” by Keith Reynolds, The Morning Journal “Vermilion woman’s murder trial now awaits verdict” by Keith Reynolds, The Morning Journal “Julene Simko guilty of murdering her husband in 2009 in Vermilion” by Keith Reynolds, The Morning Journal “Vermilion woman gets 28 years to life for 2009 murder of husband” by Keith Reynolds, The Morning Journal “Vermilion woman was slave before killing husband” by Katie Nix, Sandusky Register    YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 19+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

Get ready to experience an all-new Don Valley North Lexus. Don Valley North Lexus has temporarily relocated around the corner to 7200 Victoria Park Avenue while they build a brand new dealership for you. The deals don't stop though. Get loyalty rates as low as 1.9%, delivery credits up to $1,500, and save up to $7,000 on select demonstrator models. Don Valley North, Don Valley North Lexus. And save up to $7,000 on select demonstrator models.

A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about a real estate agent.

And I'll be talking about an intruder. Well, what could it be? An intruder, question mark, or someone who was invited into the home? Someone who made entry with the express permission of the homeowner. Or maybe somebody who was already in the home. Oh, no, I hate it. I hate it. No, not that kind of way oh okay okay creepy it's not a creepy way but someone for sure is murder i can continue on and do this case

today though why oh because you're about to throw up everywhere i've been a victim of my own choices you guys we just did something gross. Some horribly disgusting. And I knew it was going to be gross. Well, okay, yeah. And it was so much worse than I thought it would be. Okay. People online have been tagging us in the popcorn salad recipe. They're like, is this Midwestern?

And if you're like, popcorn salad? What the hell is that? I'm right there with you. It is cheddar cheese. Yeah, mayo, water chestnuts, carrot, celery, chives, and popcorn. You mix it all together and you have popcorn salad. So we decided, you know, even though we'd never heard of this, we're like, we'll make it for the bonus video on Patreon. $7 level. Oh, this was all a genius plug.

Or was it? No. So we made it. I thought it really wouldn't be that bad. It was disgusting. And I thought it would be terrible. And it was so much worse than that. You had some solo time in the bathroom after we finished that video.

Immediately had to eject it from my body. It was nasty. We don't recommend it. Don't try it at home. It smelled terrible. My whole house smells like that. Yeah. And I can't even put my finger on it.

It's tangy. It's not good. It's tangy. It's not good. Anyway. tangy. It's not good. Anyway. Nope. That's at the $7 level on our Patreon. So if you want to see us be thoroughly disgusted.

If you don't want to see that, you'd bump down to the $5 level. This is a terrible ad, Kristen. Well, it's just what it is. At the $5 level, you get bonus episodes. 22 of them. Bing, bang, boom, right in your ears. You also get into the Discord. You want us to bang your ears? Then sign up for our Patreon. Hey, I think we're already banging their ears right this minute.

Ooh, love to love you, baby. No. And at the $10 level, what happens? Well, that's the Bob Moss level, and you get all that stuff we already mentioned. Plus, you get ad-free episodes, and you get them a day early. Plus, that's not all, folks. 10% off on March. Woo!

I couldn't even say it. Kristen had to say it. I'm sorry. I lost steam. So I did not throw up. Uh-huh. But I feel't even say it. Kristen had to say it. I'm sorry. I lost steam because I... So I did not throw up. But I feel like I should have. A medicinal throw up.

It's not good. It's sitting right here. Yeah. Real high in the old chesticle region. Yep. I felt as if it was water chestnuts were just crawling their way back out. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Oh, my God. I just had to take care of business myself. Okay. Have you ever seen Chelsea Peretti stand up? Yeah. Okay. What were your thoughts on her things about how you're growing up, your family is either a throw-up family or a poop family. And her meaning of that is like when you're sick, were you told to poop or throw up?

You were obviously told to throw up. Yeah. All right. Well, you took care of that. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here waiting a couple hours. See what happens. See what happens. See what happens.

All right. Let me tell you about a murder. Oh, wait. I mean, let me tell you about an intruder. Oh, yeah. We were all really confused about how your case would end up. You had no idea that a murder was going to happen. Oh, shoot.

I just dropped something. Ma'am, do you have any respect for the wood? You guys, Brandy one time didn't use a coaster and she got a docking from Norman. Yeah. Norm told me about respecting wood because, you know, you have to respect the wood. So now I use a coaster every week. We're still not sure if he was talking in code, if there was any innuendo happening. But at any rate, we use coasters now.

That's right. All right. Let me give some shout outs. First, to a TV show on oxygen that I can't tell you the name of. Snapped. Snapped. It's for sure Snapped. Is it?

It is. Is it? Maybe it's Accident, Murder, or Suicide. Or maybe it's one of their other shows that gives the whole plot away right there in the name. Well, Accident, Murder, or Suicide does leave a little to the imagination. Snapped? No. You just, you know.

Someone Snapped. Also, shout out to Keith Reynolds. I don't know Keith personally, but he did a series of articles for the Morning Journal. And they were very helpful. All right. Thank you, Keith. Juleen, which is not a name I was familiar with at all. Not Jolene, but Juleen.

Juleen. Juleen. Juleene, but Julene. Julene, Julene, Julene, Julene. And Jeremy Simcoe were not the perfect couple. Holy crap, Brandi, you're really breaking out of your mold this time. They weren't that couple, you know, the one I tell you about every week. They weren't the ones who everyone wanted to be like, but they did not give a fuck. Okay. They were like, we are who we are and we love it.

Julene and Jeremy had met in a bit of an untraditional way. Julene was actually dating one of Jeremy's good friends. Oh, no. And they met at some kind of party or informal gathering, and they'd really hit it off. And a few days after that initial meeting, Julene's boyfriend came over to Julene's house to find her banging his friend Jeremy. Oh, that sucks. And he was like, well, that sucks. And from that day forward,

Julene and Jeremy were inseparable. They never talked to that boyfriend or friend again. Okay. Yeah. God. I know. Yeah. He's interviewed on this TV show that I won't name.

And he was like, yeah, I just came home one day and there's my good friend and my girlfriend just going at it. And I never spoke to them ever again. I'm guessing he feels pretty lucky now since he was being interviewed for Snap, clearly. Shortly after that, Julene and Jeremy got married and they started a tree trimming business together. Or as my notes say, a tree trimming business. A lot of E's in tree. A lot of E's.

Yep. Really no limit. And they bought an old farmhouse that had been fully restored to its original glory. I mean, I think that sounds pretty nice. Yeah, that sounds awesome. To them, it was the perfect life. You just said they didn't have the perfect life.

To them. To people on the outside, Jeremy seemed like a bit of a dick. Okay. He spoke his mind. He was quick to lose his temper. Even his friends described him as an aggressive personality. He was not afraid of a fight. Oh, okay. Despite his strong personality and the unconventional way the couple got its start, those around Juleen and Jeremy agreed on one thing. They were madly

in love. Julene constantly talked about how much she loved Jeremy. There wasn't a story she told that didn't involve Jeremy. They worked together. They hung out together. Every minute, every day was all spent together. And they wouldn't have it any other way. By November of 2009, the couple had been

married for about 10 years. They wanted nothing more than to start a family together, but despite multiple fertility treatments... Did you hear my stomach? Was that your stomach? That was my stomach. I thought maybe Dottie had dozed off.

Oh, my God. Will I survive? I don't know. The popcorn salad will kill me. It will. Okay, continue. You should have taken a note out of my book and immediately evacuated it from your body. Too late now.

Yeah, that thing has worked its way. That thing's shooting out the other way, my friend. A lot of people love the potty humor on this podcast. That's the feedback we get most often. Most often. Not near enough potty humor on this podcast. Hey, it would really be charming if these 30-something-year-old women talked about poop more. Okay, fine. We will. about poop more. Okay, fine.

We will. Here it is. Okay, okay. We hear you. So, Julian and Jeremy really wanted to start a family, but they were having major fertility issues. They were making regular trips to a fertility clinic, and unfortunately, they had just been unable to get pregnant. and unfortunately they had just been unable to get pregnant. One thing I read said that I believe that they had at one point been able to get pregnant,

but then she'd miscarried. And so it's just a real painful place in their marriage. They just could not get this thing that they desperately wanted. So perhaps in an attempt to find joy elsewhere and not focus on that disappointment, the couple set a goal of purchasing this large parcel of land behind their farmhouse. It was like 45 acres of this wooded land that they used all the time for recreation. They went hunting on it. I think they camped in it. They did all kinds of stuff in there. And then so they set this goal.

They started saving their money. One day they were going to own that 45 acres. It was like the thing they needed to kind of round out their idyllic farmhouse. Unfortunately, that dream would never come true. Because on November 18th, 2009, police received a 911 call from a frantic Julene Simcoe. She said that her husband had been shot in the back of the head and that the attacker was still in the house. So police arrive on the scene. They like go to the front door and the door's locked. And they go around the house.

They're trying to get their way in, but every entrance is locked. And finally, they make it to a back door and the door is closed, but the handle's unlocked. And so they make entry into the home. Mm-hmm. And inside they only found Julene and Jeremy laying in bed, dead from a single gunshot wound to the back of the head. She was in bed with him? She was not. So she was like running around the house in her underwear.

She was in hysterics. They were trying to calm her underwear. She was in hysterics. They were trying to calm her down. She was so beside herself that they actually called for an ambulance and they took her to the hospital to be evaluated because they thought if she's not injured anyway, she had some blood on her,

but not like a massive amount. But like if she's not injured, she is having some kind of stress-induced something and we just need to get her evaluated. Right. And so they got her out of the house, took her to be evaluated at a hospital, and then they, like, started searching the house. And it seemed that no one was there. And it seemed that no one was there. And it also seemed to them like no one could have been there because the Simcoes were extremely focused on security.

Oh, God, what do you mean by that? There were all kinds of security systems and security measures in place at this house. There were surveillance cameras. There were driveway alarms. There were window alarms. There were door alarms. There were attack dogs. Oh, my God. Yes.

And so the police were like, okay. No. Someone managed to get into this house without alerting these homeowners who are extremely security conscious? Mm-hmm. I don't think so. So immediately they're like, mm-mm, mm-mm, mm-mm. Something's already not checking out. And there was one gunshot to Jeremy Simcoe from this revolver that they found in the house. They were able to immediately tell that that was the gun that had shot and killed him. And they found it in the house, like by the back door. And then they found a secondary gun, a nine millimeter handgun

that was in the bedroom. And there were two shots that had been fired from that gun into the wall in the bedroom. Huh. And so they go to the hospital and they try to get a statement from Juleen and she so that they can get a better picture of what happened here. And so she tells them that she had been in bed with Jeremy and he was snoring really badly. So she just had to shoot him. So she just had to shoot him. No. So she had gotten out of bed and she'd gone up to the third floor to sleep there on a couch that they had up in this like third floor like loft area. Yes.

And so she'd been sleeping there when she had heard a noise. And so she'd come downstairs to the master bedroom. So she'd come downstairs to the master bedroom and she'd walked in and she could tell that her husband was bleeding profusely in a pitch black bedroom where she didn't turn the light on or anything. And so then she'd gone over to her dresser where she kept her nine millimeter handgun and she got it out because she heard a noise. And she just shot randomly? Yes, because Jeremy once told her, if you ever hear anything, you just fire right at that noise and that'll scare off whoever it is. What? Just classic handgun owner knowledge

okay uh-huh yeah and so she'd fired two warning shots as what those were yeah uh-huh and then that person who'd broken in there and managed to for sure been there had for sure managed to just avoid all of those security measures coming up the house wasn't found anywhere on their security system footage sounds like a super sleuth mm-hmm mm-hmm we think an fbi yeah c CIA. Russian mob inside job. Oh, didn't see that coming. Did not see that coming. And so they're like, OK, this doesn't make any sense. In addition, it does make sense. Yes, it does. make any sense. Yeah, which makes the whole thing make sense because she did it. Here's a little just like funny tidbit that

this show that I will not name for you, Ruin, is when they're searching the house, there are what they described as marital aids all over the house. Sex toys? Sex toys. And they describe

them as clearly used sex toys. Ew! Ew, why would they have to say that? I know! And like, what's going on with those sex toys that you can tell they're clearly used? You know what's going on.

There's discharge all over them. One of them was. You know what the sex toys were? Yeah, because they said it on the show and they show a blurred picture of it, which left nothing to the imagination. There was a large black dildo in the bathroom sink, just hanging out in the bathroom sink.

And they knew it had been used. Yes. And so they ask her in this statement, they're like, were you and Jeremy intimate this evening? And she's like, no. Were you in the dildo? And so they're like, well, we noticed several marital aides. It's very prudish to call it a marital aide. I know.

And clearly, like, she didn't know what they meant. Yeah, just say sex toy. And so the detective is like, there was a large black dildo in the bathroom sink. Yeah, just spell it out, man. And Julian goes, oh, yeah, that's been there a couple days. Ew! Which I think is funny. It doesn't pertain to the story at all.

Like, it wasn't, like, the smoking dildo that solved the case. I wish it was. If only. No, if that were the case, I would have told the story. Right, exactly. I'm just like, where are we going with this sex toy evidence? I'm more stuck on marital AIDS. Marital AIDS.

Marital AIDS. That's so silly. Anyway, continue. The other one they described is a vaginal pump, which I don't even know what that is. Because apparently I don't have enough what that is. Apparently, I don't have enough. You probably pump up your clit, right? I would assume so. And you sing, pump up the clit.

Pump it up. It's required while you use it. Yeah, it'd be a real missed opportunity. So anyway, they take her statement and she's like, I don't. Somebody clearly broke in. I heard an intruder.

They shot Jeremy. That's what woke me up. I came down. I saw that there was blood all over the bed. And that's when I grabbed my gun, fired two warning shots. And then the intruder left and I called you guys. Did the intruder take anything? I mean, obviously not the dildo.

No, nothing was missing from the house. And again, no trace of an intruder on any of the security cameras surrounding the property. Yeah, because he was a professional. That's right. So the following morning, Jolene goes back to the house. They've like removed the body and she's allowed to go back and she goes back to the house. They've like removed the body and she's allowed to go back and she goes back into the house and she

calls the police as soon as she gets in there. And she's like, we have been robbed. And they're like, bitch, we were just there. And so they like sigh and like get in their little police cars and cruise on over to the Simcoe farmhouse.

And they come in and sure enough. So they had this large gun safe that was under like in like. It was like in the entryway to the house. OK. But like behind the stairs. OK. OK. Picture your old house.

Right. OK. So you have the staircase. Right. And you have that little bench. Okay. Okay. Picture your old house. Right. Okay. So you have the staircase, right? And you have that little bench. Yeah. So imagine that bench isn't there and just a gun safe is there instead. Welcome. Yes. Okay. And so very clearly this gun safe has been tampered with and there's a fireplace poker on top of it. And like the tip of it is broken off. But it looks like nobody ever got it open. And then Jolene says that there's $2,000 missing from the house and that the surveillance, the whole surveillance system has been stolen.

And so police are like, OK, great. Let's write up some more paperwork here. And they're like, there's no leads for them to follow. They try and, like, track anything down. It goes nowhere. Right. Because it was an inside job. Mm-hmm.

A little bit of time passes, a couple weeks, A little bit of time passes, a couple weeks, and Julene throws an informal gathering slash memorial service for Jeremy at the farmhouse. And one of the people that comes is this guy, Corey Spores. And he had done like side work with the tree company. Like he, you know, he was actually a police officer for the town of Vermillion, which is where they lived in Ohio. And he, as a side job, worked for the Simcoe Tree Company. And so he's at this little wake, whatever, memorial service. this little wake whatever memorial service and julene comes up to him and she says i'm just i'm so glad to see you you know it's just been a really tough time and

i'd really like to be able to tell you what really happened but i can't and so he goes and he takes that statement to detectives and they're like okay but that could mean like i want to tell you but i can't because i don't know i want to tell you but i can't because i'd be implicating myself like they're like really wish you could ask some follow-up questions there cory spores but so they reach out to her it's like a follow-up to this statement. And she has lawyered up. And she's like, I won't be speaking to you. Contact my attorney with any questions.

And they're like, that's kind of weird. They think it's really weird because she's the wife of a murder victim. What would she need an attorney for? Well, if she felt like the police were closing in on her. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So she refuses to.

Honestly, if Norman was murdered and I felt like the police. Yes. Well, I mean, obviously they're going to look at you because you're his wife. Right. But if I felt like I was going to get, you know, railroaded, as they say, I would call up an attorney. All right. Rubens case, Rubens, Caminato and Bryant. Absolutely.

Are they still in business? Probably not. So I'd be in. They're like, ma'am, we were only around for those commercials in the mid 90s. They're like, ma'am, we were only around for those commercials in the mid-90s. So they're like, oh, that really rubs them wrong that she has. Then that's stupid. I agree.

In all these shows, they're like, and then they got an attorney, which seems crazy to me. No, it's not. I agree. It's not stupid at all. But for whatever reason, this is the thing that's like, maybe we better take a better look at this couple. Maybe everything wasn't as it seemed. And so they start looking into the Simcoe's financial records, and it turns out that they were in terrible shape financially. And spent all their money on guns and ammo. And they had just put in an offer on that big piece of land because it had finally gone up for sale.

And they had found out like the day before Jeremy was killed that the bank wouldn't approve them for the loan on it. How much life insurance did Jeremy have? I don't know. OK. The piece of land wasn't as expensive as I would have thought. Forty sixsix acres. Mm-hmm. For how much?

$120,000. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this had been kind of a blow. They'd had this big dream. They were finally going to get to be able to do it because the land was finally for sale. And then they'd been denied by their bank.

And then whoopsie fudge stripes jeremy is murdered the next day yeah by an intruder an invisible intruder so so this gets the investigators brains a ticking that maybe there was no intruder at all k Kristen. This could not have been the first time. That is so stupid. That's how the show spells it out. But I agree that from the very beginning they had to be like, I don't know. Looks like there's only one person in the house who's still alive and no sign that anybody else was here. What's that old saying they say? When one spouse is dead, look at the one who's breathing.

Gosh, it's such a clever little saying. Rolls right off the tongue. And then they get the coroner's report. And it sent shockwaves through the investigation. Mm-hmm.

Jeremy was killed in extremely close quarters. Whoever shot him had to be laying in bed next to him. The gun was fired from less than two inches away from his head. So the invisible intruder climbed into bed with him and then shot him. That's correct. That's correct. So investigators are like, I don't know. This is just such a mystery.

And then they start looking at fingerprint testing and DNA analysis from the scene. There were several places where there was blood and like on doorknobs and stuff like that. And they, you know, took swabs of all that and, you know, dusted for fingerprints and all that. Sent that off to the lab. Only there was one problem. All of the fingerprints, all of the DNA belonged to either Julene or Jeremy or was a mix of the two. They could find no sign that anyone else had ever been present at the scene. Yeah.

Yeah. So they're like, oh, my gosh, could it really be Juleen? But for whatever, they don't think this is enough. And so this case just sits. Yeah. I mean, it's not. It's not. It's not.

Yeah. It's not great evidence. It's a lack of evidence. Yeah. But yeah, it's not anything concrete saying, yeah, Juleen pulled the trigger. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's not anything concrete saying, yeah, Juleen pulled the trigger. Yeah. And so, yeah, the case just sits. And, like, after five years, they go and, like, do, like, a little refresher on it.

And they start talking to people who knew the Simcos. And we're like, hey, you know, we're just following up on this case. Do you have anything new to tell us? Anything you haven't, you know, thought of before? And they get kind of the same story from a few different people. They're like, no, nothing really new. But, you know, Jolene's behavior since Jeremy's death just seems kind of odd. They're like, what do you mean?

And several people tell them it's like she's never like mentioned Jeremy's murder being solved or how hard it is that it's never been solved. Yeah, that's weird. Or how she really hopes that they catch the killer. No kidding. Yeah. Yeah. And people are like, yeah, it's just kind of weird, right? Yeah, it's super weird.

Yes. Yeah. And like I said, multiple people give them this same observation. And so investigators are like, all right, let's go take another look at this case. Maybe we've missed something. Yeah. And like I said, multiple people give them this same observation. And so investigators are like, all right, let's go take another look at this case. Maybe we've missed something. Maybe there's something here that's enough. Because they've made up their minds at this point. Like, it's for sure, Julene, but how can we prove it? Right. And so they dive back into all of the evidence that was taken from the Simcoe's house.

And there's all of this personal paperwork and photos and videos from the surveillance cameras and stuff like that. And so they decide to start sifting through that. And what they uncover, and I think this is alarming that it took them five years to uncover this. I don't know why this wasn't gone through more thoroughly at the start of the investigation. Okay.

They find a whole host of photos and high production quality videos of BDSM porn involving Jeremy and Juleen. And so it's pretty dark stuff. Juleen is depicted in a bunch of different forms of bondage. And in some of it, she looks to be crying and she looks to be in pain. And they're really worried while they're looking at it that it appears that she may not have been a willing participant in this. And then they find a 14-page handwritten document among the personal things that were taken from the home that is a master and slave contract between Julene and Jeremy. More specifically, it was a daddy- contract no and there were like

very specific rituals that were listed out and behaviors that were listed out must be followed yeah and they also found in a search history of like that

like the day before Jeremy was murdered, that somebody on the Simcoe's computer had searched for Juleen's father's obituary. Which I don't know. I don't think that's that odd. They found it very odd. But here's the thing that they put together with that piece. They found it very odd. But here's the thing that they put together with that piece. What they knew of Julene is that she had been sexually abused by her father at theory that Jolene had been triggered by that sexual relationship where she was, you know, undergoing various forms of torture and stuff like that and may be triggered by reading through her father's

obituary and the abuse had like caused her to snap and she had just like had enough and she shot and killed Jeremy as he laid in bed. Wow. Mm-hmm. So they put this theory together. And like I said, this is like five years after the murder. Uh-huh. And so they bring Juleen in and they lay out their theory for her. They tell her, you know, we found these videos. We found these pictures. It looks to us like maybe you were not a willing participant here.

This is what we think happened. You know, why don't you tell us? Yeah. And she's like, no, you've got it all wrong. I was 100 percent a willing participant in everything that happened in our bedroom. And they're like, OK, all right. and they're like what about this slave agreement and she's like yeah it was my idea it's an agreement i was very into it and it's not like just so you know she's like that's not like a an every day that's how we acted that's a it's a role playing thing. Mm hmm. It's just what we were into.

And they're like. OK, great. It's very clear that they're like, we don't get it. OK. I mean, if you're saying that you were a willing participant, then I guess

you were a willing participant. Yeah. And so they were like, well, fuck, there goes that theory. I was kind of weak sauce.

I agree. Sorry. Yeah. No, I agree. But. Yeah, no, I agree. But they still felt very confident that Juleen Simcoe was the person who had killed her husband. Well, yeah, agreed. Yeah, yeah. But, like, good luck proving it.

Right. A short time later, a couple weeks, a couple months, it's kind of unclear. Police got what they thought was, like like the break they needed in the case. Again, I think this is pretty weak. Okay. But this is the thing they think that really pulls this case together. All right, let's hear it. One of Jeremy's friends comes forward.

He comes in and he talks to the investigators. And he's like, hey, I just uncovered this information. I think it'll be helpful in the investigation. Here's what I know. My wife has a friend who's a nurse. That nurse happened to be one of the first people to evaluate Juleen the night she was at the hospital the night Jeremy was murdered. And she heard Juleene say something really weird. And so police are like, OK.

And so they go track down this nurse and they go and talk to her. And she's like, yeah, she's like, yeah, I've really been thinking about this. And I thought maybe I should call and tell you, but I thought maybe it's nothing. And so I really haven't. But that night she was sitting there in the room like we were getting ready to evaluate her. And she said that Julene was like, you know, in shock and shaking. Yeah. And she said, I just shot my husband.

Oh. And the nurse said, what's that, hon? What? And Julene kind of like shook it off and said, my husband was just shot. Oh, God. Mm hmm. And so. This this statement from the nurse they think is enough to go ahead and indict Julian.

I don't know. One person's statement five years after the fact. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's not real strong, if you ask me. Yeah. And, like, I don't know how good is her memory. And don't things get remembered differently as time passes?

It just sounds to me like they did a terrible job investigating this right when it happened. And then five years later, they're trying to go back and fix it. And it's kind of. Yeah. I mean, it's probably not too late, but. Yeah. Man, you really put yourself at a disadvantage there. So they think this statement is enough.

In December of 2014, Juleen was indicted for aggravated murder, murder, felonious assault, and tampering with evidence. This would take a really long time to work its way through the court system. But finally, in September of 2017, jury selection was about to begin. And then like all of a sudden, Julian Simcoe waved her right to a trial by jury and decided to go with a bench trial. This like really raised eyebrows. They were like, really? You think this is the way to go?

Her defense team like urged her not to do it. And. Hmm. What? Why would you not want to go with a jury trial? I agree. I think it's going to be, to me, in this case specifically, where it's already, it's all very circumstantial, I would think you would have a better chance of being found not guilty

with a jury of 12 people instead of one judge. Because I think it's less likely that you're going to have 12 people agree on this circumstantial evidence. Yeah, I think that's a good point. Yeah. Huh. But she decided to go with a bench trial. And so her trial before Judge Mark Butleski, Butleski, Butleski began September 12th, 2017,

almost eight years after Jeremy was murdered. During their opening statement, the prosecutor said there was no intruder and that Juleen shot her husband with a.357 Magnum Smith & Wesson revolver that they kept in a China cabinet on the first floor of their home. The prosecutor said she retrieved the gun, went up the steps, got to the bedroom. She went around the bed, leaned down, put the barrel in the middle of the king-sized bed less than two inches from the back of his head, and she executed him. The prosecutor pointed out how serious the Simcos were about home security. They said everybody who knew Jeremy Simco knew he always had a gun next to him. He had property that had four different dog houses that he would lock up and chain at night that were stationed around different places on the property. Oh, my God.

The neighbors claimed that the dogs are hypervigilant. You make one sound, you're 400 feet away, and these dogs start barking. The house also had all kinds of alarms on the doors, on the driveway. They had cameras pointing in every different direction outside the home. This doesn't make sense. Nobody that knows Jeremy Simcoe would have come to the house to do what happened that night. Yeah. The cold, hard, ugly facts of this case, Your Honor, are that a wife killed her husband. Yeah. I think that, yeah, when you point that out, like, nobody got through all of those security measures and got to Jeremy still asleep in his bed.

Absolutely not. No one who wasn't already in the house. Yeah. The defense attorney, Jack Bradley, said in his opening statement that the Vermillion Police Department messed up this investigation. Well, I'll agree with that.

Yeah. He said they'd made up their minds that Juleen Simcoe had done it and they didn't investigate anything else. Well. They'd had tunnel vision. It was a rush to judgment.

So the prosecution actually later reacts to this and they're like, OK, we didn't charge her for five years. Yeah, really. It's a rush to judgment. Like, let's calm down on that claim. Let's calm down on that claim. The defense pointed out that there was like the police had gotten a tip about there was this neighbor who had guns and had made threats on multiple people in the neighborhood. He said, this guy is bad news.

And the police just did a little report on it and never followed anything up. Well, when there's nothing to point to somebody else being in the house. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's a very good point that the defense is trying to make. In their defense. It's really tough to defend this lady. Yeah.

Yeah. The defense attorney went on to say, I'm not telling you that this is the person who did it or did not do it. I'm just telling you that when you look in a crime scene with a microscope instead of a telescope, you might miss something. Okay. Okay. I like it. I like it a lot. Well said.

The prosecution's first witness was the Vermilion police detective Stephen A. Davis. Davis was the first officer to take a statement from Juleen the night of the killing. And they played a recording of that interview in court. So the recording's pretty rough. I think it took place at the hospital still. So there's like a bunch of background noise and stuff like that. But at one point, you can hear the detective ask Julian like simple questions like what her name is, what day of the week it was. And she's weeping and just sobbing and she's unable to answer those most basic questions.

So the prosecution plays this interview. And then they, you know, cut it off. And then in the redirect part, when the defense comes up, they ask to continue playing that video. And they play it through the end where like they're no longer talking to julene anymore it's just like two detectives talking uh-huh and they can be heard saying yeah she probably did it yeah yeah and so the defense is like there you go they made that decision right off the bat when she was still hysterical. I don't know. What do you make of that?

You think they rushed to judgment? No, I think you're allowed to use common sense. I agree. I agree. They also had Davis testify about the 911 call. So this was like a big point that the prosecution really felt showed that Julian was not forthcoming with what everything that had happened that day. So they play the 911 call. And on the 911 call, there's a couple of inconsistencies.

So first of all, the dispatcher asks Julian if Jeremy shot himself. And Julian says no. And they're like, how could she have possibly known at that point that he hadn't shot himself? They thought it was a weird response for her to have. Well, she heard the intruder. Remember, she heard the intruder and shot at the intruder. I don't know. And then they play another portion where the dispatcher is walking her through how to perform CPR.

And she tells him to pull him out of bed and perform CPR. And she says she's doing it all. But she never sets the phone down. Yeah. And she's not having, like, labored breathing. It seems very clear that she's not attempting CPR. Uh-huh. I think that's not very good.

No, it's not. Yeah. I actually don't think the saying, no, he didn't kill himself. I bet a lot of people when they're talking about their loved one. Right. Would immediately say no, no, no, no. Absolutely not. Yeah.

You might be right. In this case, I think she said no because she's like, no, I shot him. I just shot him now. Yeah. But I think in general, it would be pretty normal to say no to that. But I think in general, it would be pretty normal to say no to that. The defense didn't really put on a case. They called no witnesses, offered no evidence.

In closing arguments, the prosecution pointed out the numerous inconsistencies present in like these five interviews that julene had had with police like four of them happened like within the first like 24 hours and then one was years later and so they talked about you know how she changed her story some or there was you know varying accounts of what had happened they also pointed out all of those layers of security in the home. There were the driveway alarms and then the door alarms and the window alarms and the security system and the attack dogs. And, like, it just doesn't seem possible that somebody could circumnavigate all of that. Yeah. And get in the house and Jeremy just be laying there asleep.

Yeah. They finished by saying, the defendant here wants you to believe that the killer is some mysterious intruder who is somehow able to, perhaps in a mission impossible way, avoid all of those security systems in the house and the property. Creep up. Shoot her husband in the head at extremely close range without being seen, without being heard, and to negotiate back out of the house in the dark without setting off any of the security systems and leave no trace. We're asking the court to determine that story is a fantasy. It's fiction. It's a movie script.

And a bad movie script. Because we'd be like, this is ridiculous. They also pointed out that, like, if it was really an intruder, why did they only shoot Jeremy? Sure. Why was there no attempt to shoot Julene? Yeah. Why not take anything? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah there's so many i mean if you're going to go down

that route there's so many things you could say in the defense's closing arguments they read through the text of the 911 calls and the in the interviews and they pointed out details that they felt like the prosecution and investigators just skipped right over that they didn't even bother to look into. They said that the linchpin of the investigation was accidentally recorded after that first interview. It was that that little part where they said, yeah, she probably did it. That was when the whole thing went to shit. They stopped looking anywhere else and they just knew it was Julian. What do you make of that?

Yeah, I don't think that's that damning. Like, I think that, yeah, I think investigators are going to make an early judgment on it. Yeah, I think investigators are going to make an early judgment on it. And at this point, they've already seen the condition, like the surrounding area of the house. They know how difficult it was for themselves to get into the property. Yeah. Yeah, obviously tunnel vision is a bad thing, but using your brain. Yeah. I don't think that's against protocol.

I agree. The defense talked about how this prosecution theory that this was all started because they'd had that huge setback when they'd been turned down for that loan on the property. They said that's nonsense. Julene's mom had already agreed to co-sign on a loan. So they were going to get past that and they were going to buy that property. It was no big deal. So they deliver these closing arguments and then the judge just like mulls over the evidence for however the fuck long he wants to. It wasn't until October 20th of 2017 that he came back with his verdict.

So I think he sat on it for a couple of weeks. On October 20th, 2017, Judge Betleski found Juleen Simcoe guilty, guilty of one count of aggravated murder, two counts of murder, two counts of felonious assault, and a single count of tampering with evidence with firearm specifications. evidence with firearm specifications. The judge gave kind of a detailed explanation of how he came to the decision when he announced the verdict. He said, I think that was kind of funny because he was like, he kind of like shit on the prosecution a little bit. Oh, really?

He was like, yeah, the prosecution did a terrible job of proving their own theories. Like they just didn't do it and they didn't prove a motive, but they're not required to. Yeah. But I don't buy their motive. I don't really buy any of that. It doesn't make sense to me. He said what this comes down to is the evidence. He said he balanced the evidence to determine whether it was plausible that someone, an unknown robber, an assassin,

could have come in the house, committed the crime without leaving any DNA or any sign on those security systems. And he's like, no, it's not plausible. No. And that's why he found Julian Simcoe guilty. He said there's no way that an intruder could have got there without Jeremy knowing it. And how bold would that person have to be to do that? To get in there and have no worry that Juleen was going to come up behind him with a gun?

He said he just didn't buy it. Yeah. He didn't buy that it could be anybody other than Juleen. Yeah. He didn't buy that it could be anybody other than Jolene. Jolene was sentenced to 28 years to life. And she is currently appealing her sentence. She will be eligible for parole in 2045.

Wow. You think she did it? Yeah, I do too. I do too too But I don't think there's great evidence Sometimes a lack of evidence is the evidence That is the thing in this case I think it is the lack of evidence that proves this case There's a huge lack of there being

there's no sign that anybody else was ever in that home Nope Works for me There's no sign that anybody else was ever in that home. Nope. Yeah. Nope. Yeah. Works for me. Mm-hmm. And that's the story of an intruder? Question mark?

Period. No intruder! Okay, first of all, are you familiar with this real estate case? We might have to bleep something. Does it take place in Arkansas? It sure does. Okay, I know a couple of things. I don't know any major, any intimate details.

Gotcha. I shouldn't say intimate details. Well, that's fine. It's already come out my mouth. Shoutouts to an episode of Dateline titled The Client. Oh, my show was totally snapped, by the way. Of course it was snapped. We all knew it was snapped.

Every single one of us. People were in their cars yelling, snap. Brandi, you haven't fooled me. It's snapped. Also, a great series of articles on Arkansas Online and also an episode of Web of Lies. Oh, of course. Called Final Sale. Of course.

Someone has gotten themselves cut in a Web of Lies about Web of Lies. It's true. Okay, everyone, this is the fourth episode in a row that I have done on Web of Lies. And if you're like, no, that's not true, that's because you're not signed up for our Patreon. Yeah, you haven't got the bonus episode. And on the bonus episode, I was like, you know what? It's my third episode in a row. I'm not doing Web of Lies again. I won't do it.

And here you are doing it. Here I am. Doing it and doing it and doing it well. I just found this story really interesting. Yeah. Hopefully you will as well.

Yeah. Here we go. I'll be the judge of that. Okay. I'm sure I'm going to love it. It was September 25th, 2014, in Little Rock, Arkansas, and 50-year-old Beverly Carter was doing what she did best, sell real estate.

If you were in central Arkansas and you needed to buy or sell a house, Beverly was the woman for the job. She had a big, booming laugh. Tell me if that sounds like anyone you know. I don't know anybody like that. She was confident and warm. Certainly don't know anybody. And she made people feel at ease.

And that translated to success. To dolla dolla bills, y'all. Yes. She worked for, oh, how do you say this? Cyreleike Realtors. Oh, don't make that face. C-Y-R-E hyphen L-E-I-K-E. Cyreleike.

Oh, that sounds so much better. So much better than Cyreleike. She was their top selling and top listing agent. In fact, in 2014 alone, she did more than $12 million in sales. And her boss slash friend, Brenda, wants you to know that $12 million may not sound like a lot to some of you in New York or California, but in central Arkansas. In Arkansas, that's a shit ton. It makes you the queen of real estate. It makes you like.

You get a crown. You do get a crown. Yeah. It was funny when she said that on this episode because I'm sitting here in Kansas City like, well, $12 million. Wow. Okay. Okay.

But yeah, someone in New York would be like, how did she survive? Yes. I'll tell you how successful she was. And this, I think, is the mark of a truly successful person. Randy, she had a billboard with her face on it. Oh, yeah. That's when you know somebody's hit a bit. She had a suit on in the picture.

You know, I'm trying to remember the photo. The photo that's most commonly used. She looks really good. She's got the bright white teeth, nice long blonde hair, looking very tanned, active. Here's what I know of realtors. Okay. Typically, in their pictures, my family has a company where they make real estate signs. Yeah.

Got some expertise. has a company where they make real estate size. Yeah. Very clear. Got some expertise. Typically, they have a female realtor would have a black blazer on and then a shirt under it with just a pop color. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. It's the most common. That's the formula right there for success. Statement necklace.

I believe Beverly had a statement necklace. Absolutely a statement necklace. So believe. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I believe Beverly had a statement necklace. Absolutely a statement necklace. So it was all pretty awesome. For years, she'd been a stay-at-home mom to her three boys, but when they got older, she got into real estate, and I mean, clearly, she was awesome at it. What's wrong? You made a face. Yeah.

I'm judging myself over here. Over what? Because who the fuck am I? I opened two vitamin waters. I brought two of the same drink. Why did I open them both? That popcorn salad messed you up. It did.

I wasn't even thinking straight. I don't think we should be held liable for anything we do today. I agree. If you don't like this episode, blame popcorn salad. That's right. Ugh. I still don't feel right. No.

No. It will take me some time to recover from that. Should we make a friend trip to the hospital? Just get checked out. Also, there's no natural way to segue to this information, but I thought it was kind of interesting and fun. So as she was approaching 50, she got really into running. And she loved races and she loved getting the medals,

specifically. So she loved to do a 5K and be like, look at me! And so she just ran and ran and ran. And she lost like 60 pounds. And she treated herself to a tummy tuck and a boob job. And oopsies, they turned out way bigger than she was expecting.

And it sounds like they came a little higher. I'm telling you, that's because they hadn't settled yet. Okay. You taught me about this on the bonus episode. I didn't know. Oh, I'm sorry. Was it a pain for you to teach me? I had no idea that your boobs had to settle.

Yeah, they got to settle. You get them. They seem way too high and just way bigger than you thought they were going to be. And, they gotta settle. You get them, they seem way too high and just way bigger than you thought they were gonna be. And then the swelling goes down, they settle in, and they're just exactly what we wanted. I didn't mean for it to look like I was pinching nipples. It looked like you were pinching

nips, for sure. That was unintentional. I pinch nipples so often I don't even know when I'm doing it anymore. Yeah, tell it to the judge. So, I mean, Beverly just sounds like a hoot because, like, you know, she got these this boob job and it was bigger than she anticipated. But, you know, she would always joke around with the ladies at the office about it became kind of a fun thing. So she and the other ladies at the office just laughed a ton.

But one thing they didn't laugh about was safety. Around this time, there were some troubling stories from kind of all over the country about real estate agents being attacked or even killed on the job. And it made sense for realtors to be cautious. The nature of the job is a little dangerous. I mean, it really is kind of creepy. Going into an empty house with a stranger. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that's why Beverly was so cautious,

and that's why, like, everyone else at the office was cautious. In fact, they had a secret code for any time they felt they were in danger. They'd use the term red folder. Like, hey, could you pull the red folder on 102 Main Street? And then, oopsies, you know exactly where I am. You know that I'm in trouble.

Let's all use that today. Well, hopefully not today, but you know. If I mention red folder. Just tuck that away. Okay. Got that red folder on that popcorn salad? I am in danger from that popcorn salad. That's my way of communicating to all of you.

Never make popcorn salad. Don't do it. So that's the deal. Real estate can be a little risky, but they had safety measures in place. I read a book. It was fiction, but it was a book about a realtor who was abducted at like from an open house that she was hosting. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of scary when you think about it just kind of anyone can walk like someone at the very end of the open house

who was like made sure to be the last one there and like yeah is this giving you the chills yeah Yeah. Then came September 25th, 2014. Beverly was having a kick-ass day. She'd just won 50 bucks in an office contest, and it looked like she was on the verge of a quick, easy sale. So she had been corresponding for, I think it was like a couple weeks, with this guy, Stephen Adams. So he had told her that he and his wife, Crystal, were relocating to the area. They needed to buy a house, and they would be paying in cash. She'd emailed with him, called him, you know, the whole deal. And Beverly was like, sweet, because, you know, a cash deal means she would close quickly.

She'd get her commission quickly. You know, everybody's happy. close quickly, she'd get her commission quickly. You know, everybody's happy. Stephen said he wanted to see the property located at 14202 Old River Drive in Scott, Arkansas. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. I left out a letter.

It's going to change everything. Sure will. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm looking it up. I'm seeing it. Okay. Alright.

Hang on. I'm looking it up too. Five beds. Five baths. 4,100 square feet. Yeah. It's a big old place. I just... What? There's tile in the living room. What are you going to There's tile in the living room.

What are you going to do with tile in the living room? There's no sand nearby. That's not necessary. But there is water right there. But I agree. I feel like tile in the living room is like when you're close to a beach. Oh, my gosh. Are you going to just projectile vomit at the sight of tile in the living room?

You can't do tile. You don't approve one bit. I do not approve tile in the living room. Okay. So the place right now looks pretty nice. But at the time, I don't know if you guys heard about the tile in the living room. Okay. I'm just saying.

It's a nice looking livable house right now. Is that fair? Is that livable, Brandy? Could it sustain human life? So at this time, it was vacant. It was pretty rough. Also kind of big for just two people. And something about this kind of didn't make sense to Beverly. It kind of

triggered some alarm bells. She was kind of like, gosh, why would they be wanting this particular property that's such a fixer-upper right now when they're relocating? And it creeped her out enough in that moment that she told a little fib on the phone. She was like, oh, you know what? Because he'd said, oh, I want to see it on this day. And she said, well, company policy dictates that I cannot show a rural property alone. And he was like, oh, oh, no problem, no problem. My wife will be there, too. And he's like, oh no problem no problem um my wife will be there too and he's like oh she

just happened to walk in so crystal takes the phone she's like oh hey yeah i'll be there too blah blah and that put beverly more at ease another thing that put her at ease was that she knew this property and she knew this area very well. She lived like four minutes from the house. She'd sold a bunch of houses on that street. Her pastor lived nearby. So she knew the area well. And Stephen and Crystal were going to be there together.

Yeah. It's all good. Crystal and Stephen wanted to see the house that evening, and Beverly agreed to show them the place around 6. Before she left to go to the house, she called her husband, Carl, and she was like, hey, you know, I'm going to be a little late tonight. She told him the address of the property she was showing, and she said she'd be home at 7 with dinner. He's like, okay, no big deal. So Beverly showed up at the property, parked her brown Cadillac with its personalized license plate in the driveway. What was the plate?

B. Carter. And she realized that Stephen and his wife, Crystal, weren't there yet. So she went up to unlock the front door and boom, there was Stephen. Just Stephen. He said he'd been you know looking out back at the water and it was too bad but his wife crystal couldn't make it no and all for the red file around this time um beverly got some texts from crystal apologizing oh Oh, I got held up at work. I'm really sorry.

And the guy was like, hey, you know, could you do me a favor? Could you take pictures as you show me this place? Take pictures, send them to Crystal. That way she'll at least feel like she's seeing this place. You know, she's so upset that she got hung up at work. No, don't like that. I would totally go along with this. You would as the realtor, you would totally that would make sense to you. Yeah, that someone got hung up at work.

And especially if I'd been talking to them for like a while and I'd heard I'd talked to the woman on the phone. I mean, you never know until you're like right in front of someone, whether they're going to give you the creeps or not. Right. Absolutely. But, like, this scenario, I just feel like, oh, I'd absolutely go in there. Yeah. Would you, you think? Yeah, I probably would.

Yeah. Yeah. So, Beverly was maybe a little uneasy, but this was not a crazy story. I mean, these things happen. People get hung up at work all the time. But this was not a crazy story. I mean, these things happen. People get hung up at work all the time.

So she led Stephen through the house and she showed him the upstairs bedrooms and the bathroom. And he asked her to get a picture of the bathroom. And she's all these pictures that she took are kind of dim and blurry. They're this is weird to say you know how a good realtor like and obviously beverly great realtor a good realtor takes very nice photos yes these are not photos these are clearly to me at least photos of someone photos someone takes when they're in distress and they're kind of like because they're blurry you know it's just it's rough so she gets a picture of the bathroom and after she did that he said you're fixing to have a bad day

and she said oh my gosh that just gave me chills yeah and she said what are you talking about and he said you're being kidnapped and he pulled out a stun gun. So by this point, it's like 7.15. Beverly's husband, Carl, had been expecting her home at 7, so he texted her just to make sure she was okay, and she didn't respond. He figured maybe she left her phone in the car. She was only 15 minutes late. I mean, it's not that big a deal.

But then it got to be 8.45 and he was really concerned. He called their son, Carl Jr., and he asked, have you heard from your mom? And Carl Jr. was kind of like rolling his eyes because he's like thinking his dad overreacted. I mean, maybe her phone died. Maybe she was busy closing on a deal. I mean, that's the most likely scenario. She was probably fine. But his dad was insistent. He was like,

she told me what property she was going to. I'm going to go check it out. And Carl Jr. was just like, OK. And just to make his dad feel better, he said, I'll go to the real estate office just to see if she's back there. So Carl Jr. and his wife Kim went to the office, but Beverly wasn't there. And meanwhile, Carl Sr. drove over to the other property where Beverly said she would be, and he saw her car in the driveway. Her purse was in the front seat. the driveway. Her purse was in the front seat. The door to the house was open. Carl walked into the house looking for her. He checked every room, but Beverly wasn't there. No one was there. Carl did not waste time. He called the cops. He also called some of the other agents that Beverly worked with. And as soon as they heard that Beverly was missing, they were like, OK, OK, no big deal.

She's probably decided to show these clients some of her other properties. You know, that that could be it. So they drove to two of Beverly's other listings and they checked the lockboxes to see if anyone had accessed those houses. But no one had. Now it's like 10 p.m. Everyone's freaking out. The property on Old River Drive was swarming with police, and Beverly's family was all there, worried, out of their minds. Investigators had searched the house, turned up nothing, but they did find a notebook in Beverly's car. It was open to a page that had

Stephen and Crystal Adams' names, along with their phone number and email address. I'm going to pause here. You're a detective. What do you do with that information? Call the phone number. Okay, thank you. All right, thank you. Well, apparently that's not the way it's done. So Detective Jeff Allison explained on Dateline and on the episode of Web of Lies that just because you have the bad guy's phone number does not mean that you call it. Because you don't want to tip him off? Okay. That you don't want to call that number because if the person is a bad guy and he has her in custody like that, not in custody, but, you know, if he has her, it could freak him out and cause him to do something worse. But I don't know, man.

I'd be real tempted to be like, hello, I'm an eccentric billionaire and you just won a million dollars. Tell me your exact location. I'll come to you. Yeah. So they handed that information to the IT team and had them look into it. Did they have them ping the phone, like figure out where it's at? Could you keep your pants on?

I cannot. Could you remain fully clothed? I cannot. I will do what I want. You forced me to eat popcorn salad today. I did not force you. I did not. Whose idea was it?

Hurts donut. I wish I had a donut. I wish I had one too. Only that could make us forget. Yes. Are you jealous that I'm getting a donut tomorrow? I'm very jealous. Yeah, everyone, Norman and I are getting our second dose of the vaccine tomorrow,

and it's right near a really good donut shop, and we're kind of excited. Are you really only going to get one donut? I mean. You're going to go in there and get one donut? That's what we did last. How many should I get? What's appropriate? I'd probably eat two donuts.

Okay. Well, balls out. I'll get two donuts. Get two donuts. Don't think I won't. And then send me a picture of you holding your two donuts up. You creep. You would just love that, wouldn't you?

You're going to have to pay me for that. I think you're getting that for free. So they handed that information to the IT team and had them look into it. And they also stopped every car that drove by the property. They talked to each driver and they were like, hey, if you see this woman, let us know, blah, blah, blah. And at some point, Beverly's daughter-in-law, Kim, noticed a man speeding up to the house. The police stopped him, talked to him for a little bit, and told him the road was closed and he needed to turn around, and so he did. And Kim got this weird gut feeling

like maybe they should have talked to that guy for longer. Investigators also talked to neighbors. They discovered that one of the neighbors said she'd seen a guy pull up by Beverly's car. He'd been in a black car and he was a skinny white guy with short hair. And like 20 minutes later, she saw that he backed his car back toward the front door, which was strange and concerning. And evidence at the scene matched the witness's statement. There was a tire track in front of the front door. But at around like 1 a.m., everyone breathed a sigh of relief because all of a sudden, Carl received three texts from Beverly.

The first read, sorry. Second one, phone's been dead. Okay, good, She was fine. But then came the third text. Out drinking with friends? Mm-mm. No. No.

Beverly's family was devastated. That last text made no sense at all. First of all, Beverly rarely drank. And when she did go out, it would have been, you know, with her friends or with her daughter-in-law, Kim, and they'd already called all her friends, and Kim was right there. Clearly, someone had Beverly's phone and was pretending to be her. Around that same time, Beverly's boss slash friend, Brenda, got a text. It read, friend Brenda got a text. It read, sorry, phone acting up. What did you need? And Brenda responded a minute later, just wondering if you put that red folder back on my desk. Because Brenda's a sharp

cookie. Yeah. She waited like 20 minutes. She didn't get a response. So she texted again and said, well, did you? And never heard back. This was bad. Yeah. At this point, Detective Jeff Allison requested an emergency trace on Beverly's cell phone number. Because Brandy, I don't know if you know this, you probably don't because you've never watched a true crime show before. But cell phones ping their locations to the nearest cell phone tower every 15 minutes. And that is a sentence that is included by law in every episode of Dateline, 2020, Snapped, and just rolls on a scroll at the bottom of every show on Discovery ID. But getting that cell phone data would take hours.

But investigators were pretty sure they knew what was going on. I mean, this was a kidnapping, duh. And probably some type of murder for hire. Murder for hire? They were pretty sure Carl was involved. Really? Yeah. Okay, that's shocking to me. Why?

What's he doing? Why is he involved? I assumed it was because, you know, somebody got this, like, weird fascination with her because her picture's all over billboards. I thought it was more of, like, a stalker thing than a murder-for-hire thing. I mean, that's not a bad theory. But, like, they show up to the crime scene and his prints are all over everything. He's gone in and contaminated everything. Okay.

Hmm. So they suspected the husband. Kate, you know what? What? Initially, when you said it was 845 and he was like, huh, now I'm a little concerned. I was like, he let it get to 845 before he got concerned? Well, now I'm a little concerned. I was like, he let it get to 845 before he got concerned? Well, he was concerned at 715.

He wasn't that concerned because he let it go to 845 before he took any action. Okay. All right, Carl. All right, so you feel the same way the detectives did. I'm undecided. So, the detectives suspected Carl because, you know what, we're not the only ones who were raised on red vines and Dateline. Half of detective school is just watching Discovery ID with a box of snack wells in one hand and a notebook in the other.

And that's a fact. Is it? It is. Page one of the notebook says, it's always the husband. Page two of the notebook says, cell phones go ping. And page three of the notebook says, be yourself. Everyone else is already taken. No!

Because it's important to stay inspired. So then it's September 26th. It'd been less than a day since Beverly went missing, but word had spread. Hundreds of people volunteered to search for her, including realtors from all over the state. But they couldn't find her. Then came September 27th. And Detective Jeff Allison brought Carl into the station and hit him with some hard truths. He's like, look, your fingerprints are all over the crime scene.

And Carl was like, well, of course they are. I went in that house. I went all over that house looking for her. I even looked in the attic and I look with my hands. To Carl, it had been the natural thing to do. To touch everything? Well, I mean, I'm sure he opened doors and looked, you know. I don't think he was like feeling his way down the hall.

No, but although it was a vacant house, so maybe the lights were, I don't know. I don't know. Mm-hmm. So to Carl, this had been the natural thing to do, but So maybe the lights were, I don't know. I don't know. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So to Carl, this had been the natural thing to do, but to investigators, it looked sketchy as hell. He'd compromised the crime scene. The detective was like, tell me about your marriage.

Carl and Beverly, I think they'd been together for like 35 years, been married for 35 years. How many marital aids did they find? Okay. They got together when they were teenagers. They'd just been together forever. But their relationship hadn't been perfect. And Carl told the detective, hey, early on in our relationship, I cheated on her. And one time, a long time ago, she tried to stop me from driving drunk and I punched her.

Oh, shit. But she forgave me for all that. Okay. Carl had a statement in this episode of Dateline that I did not love. And it was something along the lines of, like, one smack upside the head over the course of 35 years isn't that bad. Or something like... Disag he said you know we're past all that we've been great for years in fact on our 20th anniversary we renewed our vows it was a beautiful ceremony but the detective didn't believe that it had been a beautiful ceremony because he'd heard a rumor that they renewed their vows at Disney World.

And the detective found that kind of cheesy. Oh, did he? Yeah. Uh-huh. That's the opinion of the detective. Oh, and only the detective? Not me. Not me, Brandy.

I'm not the bad guy. The detective is. But don't worry. It appears that they did not renew their vows in the presence of any adults who were cosplaying as cartoon characters. As horny as that might make some people laugh. No, their vow renewal did look lovely. So their first marriage, I think they just did like a courthouse situation. So for their 20th, they did like the dream wedding she'd always wanted.

But the detective kept pressing Carl. He was like, how's your financial situation? And Carl had to admit that it wasn't good. He and Beverly had $124 in their checking account. Really? I know. I know. I know. I mean, she's got billboards

and a brown Cadillac. And she's, I mean... A very successful realtor. I know. Where's the money going, Carl? Good questions. And you know what? If you think that Detective Jeff didn't notice that Beverly had a $100,000 life insurance policy, then you don't know jack about Jeff.

After a while, the detective cut Carl loose. He was still suspicious of Carl, but he really didn't have anything on him. By the afternoon, the investigative team had some information on the email address and the phone number that Beverly had written down in her notebook. And it wasn't good. The email and the phone number were inactive, which I don't know how you find out that an email address is inactive. Yeah. But at any rate, unless you get a bounce back from it. Oh, yeah. Completely shuts it down. Deactivates at any rate, that's... Unless you get a bounce back from it. Oh, yeah.

Like, if something completely shuts it down, deactivates it. Yeah, that's a good point. All right. Thank you, IT expert. You're welcome. Brandi spent many years on the Geek Squad. Yeah. More of a one-man Geek Squad.

Just a geek, really. So as it turned out, the phone number had been generated by an app. And this app basically gives your phone a new number that you can turn on and off. So you can make a bunch of creepy calls totally anonymously. But oopsies, if it turns out you might have kidnapped someone, then the app will hand over your real name faster than Brandy can turn down. A great idea to turn her hair salon into an ASMR channel. Which, by the way, is very fast.

So they told him that the subscriber's name was Crystal Lowry. They did some searching and discovered that Crystal was married to a man named Aaron Lewis. So they took off for Aaron and Crystal's house, which was about a half hour away from the house on Old River Drive. And they didn't have a warrant yet. So they were just like staked out outside. And pretty soon, a skinny white guy with short hair left the house and got into his car. And they were like, holy shit, that's our guy. But the skinny white guy must have been pretty paranoid or the police were not very good at blending in because the skinny white guy just sped off. So they took off after him, you know, drive, drive, drive. But as he was rounding a

curve, the skinny white guy lost control of his vehicle and he hit a culvert not a culvers culvert i misunderstood the first time i heard it and i was like no way i'm sorry just a ditch it's yeah boy talking about a letdown and it'll cheese curds here oh do they have cheese curds they're probably They're probably good. Why am I acting snotty? Why'd you say ew? Because curds sounds disgusting. It's just popcorn salad for every meal from here on out? Would you just stop living if you had... Yeah. I couldn't do it.

Remember that question we answered? Like, would you starve to death? I would. I'd starve to death before I ate popcorn salad. What if that's how we became models? The popcorn salad diet. I'm sorry, everyone. We have to quit the podcast because we're off to Milan.

So, you know, it'll devastate you to hear that Aaron banged his head real bad and got a bloody nose. But he was fine. I mean, who gives a shit, right? I know, but can he give them a statement? Like, is he who they're looking for? Well, so police called in an ambulance to take him to the hospital. And they probably weren't too happy about that because that meant they had to wait to talk to him until he was medically cleared you know check all the boxes yeah so detective jeff who has been with us this whole time went to the hospital but when he got there an officer was

waiting for him and the officer had to be like hey man bad news uh aaron lew Lewis left the hospital. Like, he ran out of the hospital. Oh, shit. Still had the IV in his arm. Sorry. Some stuff really creeps me out. You think it was just like dangling there? Stop it. Just the needle sticking in.

You know what? It reminds me of my surgery. And that part like creeped me out the most. Oh, when they put it in the eye. Okay, anyway. That nurse did a bad job putting it in. I've only... That's bad.

Yeah, I've only... Oh, God. I can't even talk about it, Brandy. So that sucked. But the good news was that they now had a search warrant for Crystal and Aaron's house. So they busted in, hoping to find Beverly. But there was no sign of her. They looked and looked and looked, but they only found one thing. What they find. What was it? What was the one thing?

Beverly's cell phone. Oh, no. It was all starting to feel pretty grim. Beverly was nowhere to be found. And this Aaron guy who who clearly had something to do with it, was on the run. But Aaron would have to run pretty fucking far because his face was all over the news and all over social media. Everyone was looking for him, and people were also looking for Crystal. But she was a lot easier to track down. She had an 11-year-old daughter and she was in training

to become a nurse, you know. So police found her and arrested her on the grounds that Beverly's stolen phone had been in her house. Also, if there was anything she was willing to tell them, they would be All Ears. Funny enough, All Ears is the nickname that Brandy has had for me for 25

years. It hurts my feeling every day. I've never once called her that, ever. So they got Crystal in for questioning, and she was like, look, you know, Aaron brings in cell phones and electronics all the time. I have no idea whose phone that is. And also, our marriage kind of sucks, and we're in the process of getting a divorce. So, you know, maybe he's up to something, but if so, I have no idea what it is. Now it's September 29th. Erin Lewis had been on the run for one day. And two managers at a mortgage company were sitting in their office. And they'd both obviously known Beverly through their work. And of course, they were following her disappearance very closely.

And they were sitting in the office and they looked out the window. And holy shit, there was Aaron Lewis. There was the guy whose picture was all over the news. So one of the guys called 911 and he was like, hey, I think I am looking at the guy who's responsible for the missing realtor. He's real nervous and he's standing at the bus stop. He fits the description. And in the meantime, the other dude in the office walked out to the bus stop to get a better look at the skinny white guy. He figured he'd put the skinny white guy at ease by making pleasant conversation.

Oh, hey, do you know what time the bus is coming? Oh, do you know this? You know, innocent bus talk. Don't worry, I you know what time the bus is coming? Oh, do you know this? You know, innocent bus talk. Don't worry, I'm not memorizing your face. But he was memorizing the dude's face. So he went back into the office and he's like, that's the guy. So they watched the skinny white guy go into a subway. And then he left the subway. Sandwich shop? Sandwich shop. Okay. It's very confusing. So I was like, wait, he's a he's at the bus stop. Gave up the bus.

No, no. OK. I don't think they have a really long time for the subway. So, you know, Aaron leaves the subway restaurant. And meanwhile, this is so crazy. So, you know, Aaron leaves the Subway restaurant. And meanwhile, this is so crazy. Meanwhile, a guy named Adam Nash was sitting in his car in the parking lot, bored, happened to be looking at the news on his phone. And he saw Aaron Lewis's picture.

Hmm. Interesting. Whatever. And then looks up at Aaron Lewis is standing right fucking there. Yes. What would you do? I would piss myself. I would die. I would too.

Well, and he's a lot like us. I would call 911 and be like, I'm practically a police officer. I'm located. Hello, Officer Brandy reporting for duty. so you know adam loved the guy not nearly as subtle as the mortgage guys because he like jumped out of his car hit the ground he spooked the shit out of Aaron, started chasing him. And, you know, luckily the police were already on the way because the mortgage guys had already called.

I would be so not cool. I'd be just like Aaron. So, you know, they show up right as Aaron was hauling ass into an apartment complex to get away from Adam. So then he, like, busted into an apartment and jumped out of a two-story window. But the fall must have slowed him down because they caught him and arrested him and brought him in for questioning. Can you believe that shit? No! Under interrogation, Aaron admitted to kidnapping Beverly. But he said that the last time he'd seen her, she'd been alive.

He said, yep, I kidnapped her, but Trevor has her now. Who the fuck is Trevor? That's exactly what they said. Yep, he and Trevor had done this whole thing. He was like, she's definitely alive, and I've got a recording to prove it. So he played them an audio file from his phone, and it was Beverly's voice. And she was leaving a message for Carl saying, basically, don't call the cops. It was a ransom message.

Oh, I'm sorry. Am I going too slow? No. No, no, no. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. Let's go. Yes.

And Aaron was like, see, she's alive. And they were like, well, OK, that doesn't really mean anything. Yeah, it proves she was alive when she read the message. But Aaron told the police, hey, I'll take you to the last place I saw her alive. He said, if she's not still there, then Trevor done something with her. Trevor done something with her? Trevor done something with her? I thought Trevor Dunn was his name. Oh, no.

Try to keep up. Keep in mind we're in Arkansas. Yeah, I got it. All right, so take her to the... I'm sorry, am I allowed to take a drink of water? No! This case is too good! So Aaron directed the detective to a spot about 30 miles outside of Little Rock, and he talked the entire way there.

He talked about how Beverly was some big rich realtor, and how he'd kidnapped her so that he could ask for $100,000 in ransom money, and when they finally got to the spot, it was a shed on the side of the road. And when they finally got to the spot, it was a shed on the side of the road. Detective Jeff went in it, looked around, and decided that Beverly had never been there. Aaron had been full of shit. Detective Jeff said, quote, I was pissed off to no end. Oh. Which, yeah, you would be.

But then Aaron was like wait wait wait Detective Jeff here is Jeff his last name? Detective Jeff Allison he's got two first names? yeah that's allowed it is actually good because if you were calling him Detective Allison I'd be like wait is this a woman?

confusion would abound it would you're more formal with your stories. I'm a little more. You keep it a little looser. I keep it cash. Much like your vagina. Oh, my goodness.

My goodness. I recently had surgery to make myself as tight as a drum. I don't think drums help. Exactly. Real mistake. I'm getting pretty backed up here. But you can't

call me loose, that's for sure. By the way, I'm going gonna need to pay advance from the podcast pay off your drug surgery yeah i'll show it to you you'll agree it was worth it so you know aaron has just taken them to some shed that has nothing to do with anything. And he's like, wait, wait, wait, new idea. Let me take you to where I initially took her. So they drove to a house about 35 miles away. They got there, walked in.

It was another dead end. Detective Jeff was so mad that he said, you know what? I can't ride back with this guy. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. Police officer who knows his limits. I respect it. Yeah. So he was like, I need to ride back with another officer. And that's just how it happened. Meanwhile, other investigators tracked down this Trevor guy who was a former roommate of Aaron's and was now in the Air Force. They talked to him, but he had been on base at the time of the kidnapping. He could not have been involved. Oh my gosh. So Aaron, once again, had been full of shit. At this point, they're kind of like at the end of their rope.

But the detective knew about Aaron's work history, and he knew that he used to work at a place called Argo's, which was a concrete plant or something. And so he just kind of was, he threw it out there. Let me ask you something, Aaron. Is she at Argo's? And Aaron had been looking at the table, and the second he said that, he looked up real quick.

And to quote the detective, he had a stupid look on his face. Seemed like a tell. Yeah. So investigators went out there and they found Beverly's elbow sticking out of a shallow grave. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah.

Oh, no. She'd been buried naked, and her face had been wrapped in duct tape from her forehead down to her chin. And it looked like she'd died by suffocation. Oh, my gosh. It was horrible. Horrible. Aaron was charged with kidnapping and capital murder. But as the investigation unfolded, it turned out that Aaron really had been working with an accomplice. It was his wife, Crystal. They texted about the kidnapping and Crystal's own cell phone ping showed that she'd been at that concrete plant, too.

And she was charged with capital murder as well. But the D.A DA offered her a deal. Are you okay? Your mouth is open. I'm shocked. I know. Yeah. Was Carl in on it?

No. No. Oh, my gosh. So it was because of the billboards. They thought she was super rich and they just wanted to. I mean, these two are idiots. You're about to find out if you don't know already. But anyway, so the D.A. offered her a deal.

He'd give her a lighter sentence if she agreed to tell them everything she knew and testify at her husband's trial. Did she take it? Yeah. She pled guilty to kidnapping and first-degree murder and was sentenced to 30 years in prison. She'll be eligible for parole after 21. Here's what she told prosecutors. This had all been a scheme to make money, and it had gone wrong. She said that it was Aaron's idea to kidnap someone, but it had been her idea to kidnap a realtor.

She had been in class for nursing school when Aaron actually kidnapped Beverly, and he'd sent her a photo of Beverly bound in the trunk of his car. When she got home, Beverly was locked in their master bathroom. And she was frustrated because Aaron had screwed this thing up so badly. The whole plan was to get money. And I believe their plan was to, like, you know, get Carl to put money on Beverly's bank cards or something like that. But they needed Beverly's purse in order to do that.

And they hadn't gotten it. Yeah. As a safety precaution, Beverly didn't show houses with her purse on her shoulder. She locked her purse in the car. And, you know, he tased her. He bound her. He put her in the trunk of the car and completely forgot about the purse. So that evening he had driven back to the house to try to get her purse.

But by that point it was surrounded by cops and one even pulled him over. But let him go because he didn't know. By that point they were basically in over their heads and crystal was pretty sure that beverly had seen their real names on their prescription medications in the bathroom so crystal said that beverly the one who killed her. This all looked really bad for Aaron. And to make matters worse, he didn't like his court-appointed attorney.

In fact, he was pretty sure that he could do a better job. No, he's going to represent himself? He could do a better job, Brandi. Hear me out here. Hear me out. He's going to represent himself? He could do a better job, Brandi. Hear me out here. Hear me out. Here's the deal. If he's found guilty, it's him doing the time. So, you know, no one's going to care more about this than him.

Okay, but you don't know the fucking law or how the court works or any of that. Oh, that's rude to point out. You sound just like the judge. Haters. Haters everywhere. just like the judge. Haters, haters everywhere. Here's the deal. He had tried to fire his lawyer multiple times and his lawyer every time was like, dude, that's a really, you, you don't want to fire me. You need an attorney. But Aaron was adamant. He thought he could do a better job himself. And so in a hearing

in March of 2015, Judge Herbert Wright was like, okay, man, I mean, if you really want to represent yourself in court, that is your right. But are you sure? And Aaron was like, look, I can read. I can write. I went to college for a little while. I won a lawsuit against Benton County, which he had like seven felonies. So I don't know if that in his mind means that like one time he got off.

I highly doubt that he actually won a lawsuit. But you know, who knows? And the judge was like, okay, okay, but understand that if you do this, I will treat you just like any other actual attorney in my courtroom. And Aaron was like, yeah, fine by me. And the judge was like, okay, but you realize you won't even be allowed to, like, leave prison to investigate your case. And Aaron was like, no biggie, I got this.

Hmm, gosh. But it's just going to shock you. He did not got this. He did not got this. After a few months of being his own attorney, Aaron got a little whiny. He came to the judge with a bunch of questions on how to write motions, which is like, yeah, you don't know. No, not go to any semesters of law school. And he said that the prosecutors weren't working with him.

And he was like, hey, I'm at a disadvantage here because you know what? I'm in prison and in prison, I don't have much access access to the computer and that's really putting me in a tough place no shit dude the judge tried to tell you that also if you guys could just see my cell phone you'd see all the evidence to prove my innocence but here's problem. I don't trust anyone else with the passcode. And the judge was like, yeah, dude, that's why people usually have an attorney represent them. Everything you've mentioned is why you have

an attorney. Now, please, it's my recommendation that you accept legal counsel. And Aaron was like, yeah, right. Okay, fine, or whatever. I mean, if you insist. So attorney Bill James landed the real fun job of being Aaron Lewis's defense attorney. Aaron's trial began in January of 2016.

In her opening statement, Pulaski County Deputy Prosecutor Barbara Mariani said that Aaron and his wife Crystal had targeted Beverly because they thought she was rich. They'd lured her to a vacant house, all in the hopes of getting ransom money from Beverly's husband. But the plan had unraveled and Aaron had murdered Beverly by wrapping her face in duct tape. But defense attorney Bill James was like, not so fast. Beverly actually died during a sex act gone wrong. No, this is infuriating. No. Oh, this is okay. Anyway. Yeah. He said this case was about secret lives. Beverly was living a secret life. She was up to stuff that no one else knew about. Bullshit. Yeah. The defense said that Beverly had exhibited a history of poor

decision making, and this was just the latest in a series of bad decisions. For example, funny enough, you actually asked about this. She was broke, but she was driving a new Cadillac. She'd just gotten plastic surgery. She'd made a bunch of bad decisions. This is just another one. No. No.

No. A lot of people make irresponsible financial decisions. They don't have some totally secret life. Yeah. This is just so insulting. Yeah. So insulting to her family and to her. More on this later.

Are you okay? This case is crazy. I did not know anything about this case. Yeah. I mean, this is infuriating. Yeah. So the prosecution called Crystal Lowry, who shared the story that, you know, I've already shared, so we won't rehash it. And they also played that very damning recording from Aaron's phone. In that recording, which the prosecution argued Aaron had forced Beverly to record, Beverly said, Carl, it's Beverly. I just want to let you know I'm okay.

I haven't been hurt. Just do what he says and please don't call the police. If you call the police, it could be bad. Just want you to know that I love you very much. The thing that is amazing to me about this recording is she sounds so calm i think it's so chilling because it just seems like if there'd been any chance for her to talk her way out of this i bet she took it like i bet she fought so hard because she doesn't sound panicked.

She doesn't even sound like she's crying. She just sounds like she's trying to comply with what they want in the hopes that she'll be able to survive. Yeah. This is interesting. That recording was so damning for the defense that they decided to not even acknowledge it. Have you ever heard of that? No, that's a weird way to go. Let's pretend that didn't happen.

Yeah. Literally, defense attorney Bill James was just like, you know, we're just going to ignore that tape because there's no way for us to explain it that'll do us any good. That's what he told Dateline. That's a bold strategy, Cotton. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I have never heard a less defensive defense attorney on Dateline.

I mean, this guy was just like, Just gonna pretend that didn't happen. defense attorney on Dateline. I mean this guy was just like. Just going to pretend that didn't happen. Well it just seems clear to me that he didn't buy anything any bullshit his client was selling

which honestly made me more mad that like he even put out there that stupid sex stuff because like you know it's all bullshit. Yeah. So why not try to steer

your client towards something that is at why not try to steer your client towards something that is at least not designed to like embarrass the victim's family anyway when it was time for the defense to take over you'll be thrilled to know that aaron took the stand in his own defense oh shit What'd he say? Okay. Here we go. Aaron said that, to be honest, he was out of the house when Beverly died. Oh, to be honest? In fact, well, that was just me talking. In fact, this had all been between Beverly and Crystal. Beverly and Crystal wanted to have sex, and so they did. They had rough, consensual sex, and Beverly died as a result of this. I believe in like an interview before the trial, he had said that he and Beverly had had sex. I mean, it's just, it's so stupid. All Aaron had ever done was try to cover up and

protect his wife. He told all those lies because he'd had so many run-ins with the police and didn't trust the judicial system, and he wanted to protect his wife. If being a good husband is wrong, lock him up, Brandy. That's stupid. And of course, as Aaron talked,

the prosecution, I'm guessing, was filled with glee because this meant that they would get to cross-examine him. Yeah. And they couldn't wait to ask him about the recording on his phone. Yes, exactly. How on earth would he explain that? Okay.

Let's pause. What's the explanation? And get creative, Brandi. Just really, you know, let loose. It's a role-playing scenario. Hmm. Hmm. Okay.

Not bad. A little too believable, if you ask me. Okay. You ready for what he said? Mm-hmm. The recording was fake. He'd faked it. He had used a voice synthesizer to imitate Beverly's voice. And it

must have been a good one because Beverly's family had testified that that was her voice. And he did that because he figured, you know, it might be an angle to get something out of someone. Yep. Uh-huh. No! No! No! No! The jury deliberated for like an hour, as you would. Yeah. They found him guilty of capital murder and kidnapping.

During the sentencing phase, Beverly's son told the court that his family had been brutalized by Aaron's contention that his mom had died in a sex act. The trial had been painful for so many reasons, one of them being that the defense had also – I didn't bring this up, but the defense was also really rough on Carl Sr. They kind of attacked their marriage and, you know. Yeah. And their son just said, that hurt so much because Beverly and Carl had really loved each other. He told the jury, she loved my dad so much. We had so many good years left with her. The world is a darker place without her. That's really sad.

Aaron Lewis was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. And now Beverly's son, Carl Jr., works as a realtor, and he created the Beverly Carter Foundation, which is a not-for-profit foundation that provides safety training to real estate agents. He says he likes doing the trainings because, you trainings because he feels like he's helping people, but he also gets to talk about his mom. Yeah. And he loves to talk about his mom.

Yeah. Ugh. So that's the story of the murder of Beverly Carter. Holy shit. Yeah. It's... I think what... There's so much about that that's terrifying.

I think the scariest thing is, I'm like, well, what fucking lesson do you take from that? Because in my opinion, she did everything the right way. Yeah. She did everything the right way. Yep. She wasn't going to go alone. I mean, all she did was go to her job. You know what?

Okay, and this just occurred to me. They would have done the same thing even if Crystal was there. Yeah. So, yeah, she did everything. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, Crystal certainly wouldn't have been helpful. No.

No. Ugh. certainly wouldn't have been helpful. No. Fudge buckets. I know. I hate that one. And I hate him. He can kiss my ass. His defense was so fucking stupid. Yeah.

Represent myself. Sir, this is a court of law what are you gonna wear a hoodie he thought he was pretty smart yeah obviously oh thanks for that one you told it very well i was on the edge of my seat the entire time. Well, thank you. I hope I did it justice. Yeah. It was just, there was a lot going on there and I had to leave stuff out. Yeah.

Part of it was like, some of the bullshit he said, it's like, mm. No. I don't care about all the details about like, oh yeah, we were in some sex thing. No, you weren't. No, you weren't. No, you weren't. Brandy? Yes.

Okay. I'm very excited. We just talked off air, you know, and that's when we like put our hands over the mic. Yeah, and you guys can't hear us. Yes. We have something important to say. Before we get to the questions from the Discord.

Before we get to the questions from the Discord, we have a very important shout out to give. I'm so excited congratulations to erica and michael on your engagement we're so excited for you so they've been long-time listeners i'm so excited for them it's so cool i'm so excited congratulations to you both is it weird that i'm so excited for them and I am really excited for them. And Erica, I hope you said yes, because this is super awkward if you didn't. Yeah, we are making a leap. You designed your ring, so I mean, we're assuming.

We were told that you were going to say yes, but you just didn't know when it was happening. So I hope it was amazing. I'm sure it was. And congratulations. And if you said no, boy, is this awkward. Yeah, this is super awkward if you said no. And if you said no, boy, is this awkward. Yeah, this is super awkward if you said no. And I'm sure that you guys are having some deep conversations about, like, where to go from here.

Hopefully June is okay. I was just going to say pet June for me. Everyone, they have a really cute dog. The dog looks so much like Peanut did as a puppy. Sometimes I get emotional looking at the pictures. Such a cutie pie. Anyway, okay, now to the questions from the Discord. But how do they get into this Discord, Brandy?

Oh, all you have to do to get into our Discord is join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. And then you can get in here. It's like a little chat room with all your other LGTC BFFs. You can talk about whatever you want. Within reason. You know, and nothing creepy. Well, we do talk about murders and all kinds of... Well, you know.

There's pretty much anything. You can talk about anything. It's fine. Oh, my God. I'm going to confess something cringey. I'm ready. And it's all because Rude to Include asked, Are either of you into journaling or bullet journals? I'm going to confess something cringy. I'm ready. And it's all because Rude to Include asked,

Are either of you into journaling or bullet journals? If so, do you have any favorite pages or ideas? Okay. You're a big journaler. I'm a big journaler, but I've started doing something. I told Norm, if anyone got a hold of my planner, I would probably die of embarrassment. Because, like, I've always been big on, you know, my to do list. Always a to do list from since I was, you know, yay high to a grasshopper.

That's what I have to say. Recently, I have started doing not just to do lists, but how to feel lists. Like at the beginning of the day, I think of three words of like how I want to feel today oh I know it's so cheesy but honestly is it working it really really helps where'd you hear that idea I don't know but I really doubt I came up with it I doubt it it doesn't seem like her here first guys she invented this she totally invented it, I'm a genius. But it has seriously been so helpful because I had noticed that my anxiety would peak during certain days of the week. And so it's really helpful to, like, Tuesday morning be like, I want to feel calm and happy and, you know, whatever. Yeah.

Anyway, I recommend it. That's cool. Yes. Whatever. Yeah. Anyway, I recommend it. That's cool. Yes.

Also, forces me to relax a little bit because I'm like, oh, hey. It's in the journal. I have to watch 12 episodes of Survivor today because I said I needed to feel relaxed today. And this is where I get my relaxation. I love that. I think that's great. Thank you. It is very cool. I don't think I said that. I think that's great. Thank you. It is very cool. I don't think that's it.

Bob Moss for Life asks, have you guys really not hugged each other during this pandemic? We really have not. We really haven't. We really have not. Until just now when we have gotten our vaccines, we have, we've even worn masks around each other. Yeah. Well, and for a long time we didn't even record in person.

Yeah. Yeah. We've just started going mask, which just, you know, I think we're both still pretty locked down. And we've gone through some major life events. I know.

Without being able to hug each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's still weird to me to think about, like, I haven't seen London a ton, you know? Yeah.

It's just been a weird time. It has. Yeah. Yeah, how weird is that? You had a baby and I couldn't hug you. Yeah. Ugh.

Yeah. And all you ever want to do is put your hands all over me. So, like, that's so sad for you. And here I am looking more delicious every day. I was going to say delicious. Why are you looking delicious? Those are your words.

You're having chocolate all over yourself? Your words, not mine. I've got those two donuts just stacked on my boobs. Oh, everyone, by the way, you know what Brandy's favorite kind of donut is? mine. I've got those two donuts just stacked on my boobs. Oh, everyone, by the way, you know what Brandy's favorite kind of donut is? Glazed. It's delicious. That's the plainest,

most boring donut. It's the most delicious donut. No, I mean, all donuts are delicious, you know. Everyone's beautiful. All donuts are delicious. But that is a lame donut to have as your favorite donut. This one's for you. Okay.

Fierce Mama Llama wants to know, I know you live in an older home. Have you looked up the records to see if people have died in it? Have I looked up the records? Oh, my God. Yes, I've looked up everything there is to know. I've been a total creep. I've read every obituary. Yes, I believe the, well.

I know, don't give out too many details. I don't want to give too many details because I don't know if there are creeps out there. Actually, I do know there are creeps out there. And so I'm going to keep the details to myself. But, yeah, you know how weird I am. I looked it up immediately. Ooh, another one for you. Teeny tiny jiffy pop bomb.

Wants to know. How's the giant quilt drum rack working out for you? Oh my God. Is it everything you wish it could be? Everyone, let me tell you. Oh, my God. Is it everything you wish it could be? Everyone, let me tell you.

When there is something that you have been wanting to purchase for two years, like a giant quilt drying rack, you just do it. You got to do it. I fucking love that thing. Brandy, I'm serious. I love it. That thing has been used so much. And no longer am I worried about where will I dry this quilt. Do I have to put it on the treadmill?

No, I have my quilt drying rack. The other day I was like asking my parents how it feels to be so old that their daughter bought three. Excited about drying rack? No, it's another old person thing. The other day, my mom and I went shopping together. It's the first time we've gone shopping in forever. And I bought three, count them, three tablecloths. They were on sale.

They look really nice. And so I asked my parents, how does it feel? You're so old that your daughter is buying tablecloths and is excited about them. Brandy, let me tell you something. They were an Easter theme, but don't really scream Easter. And therefore, they were deeply discounted. Okay? So if you think I paid a lot of money for my new tablecloths, you're wrong.

But it looks like I paid a lot of money for them. You know, I was thinking today when we were eating lunch, Kristen must be skimming money off this podcast. Because this looks like one expensive tablecloth. I can see why you would think that. You're going to audit the books, aren't you? You're like, something funky is going on here. Temple of Hymen wants to know, Brandy, do you watch The Challenge? And what season was your favorite?

I already know Wes is your favorite player. Wes is one of my favorite players. And one time I followed him around the grocery store inadvertently. Oh, bullshit. It was on purpose. It was completely inadvertently. And the whole time I was like, he's going to

think I'm fucking following him. He's from Kansas City. He used to live in Mission. He used to have a smoothie shop in Mission.

Is he that kind of freckly white guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. So I was at my grocery store uh-huh yeah so he came to you that's right he was there and like we just happened to be doing the thing where you're going like the opposite like way on an aisle but then the same direction so we just like kept crossing

paths and then i just had to start like looking down and then i was like pretending to be on my phone because he was just gonna think that i was him. And then you oopsies fell into his cart. Yeah, and then he loaded me into his Range Rover. It was fine. Was he driving a Range Rover? Of course he was driving a Range Rover. See, Brandi, this is how I know you're a creep. You also knew you spotted his car.

You were following him. I wasn't. I promise. What trench coat were you wearing? The answer to this question is my favorite season was the season. And I'm sorry, I don't know the name of the season. But it was the season where at the end, the winner could choose to keep the whole award amount for themselves or share it with their partner. So it was like you had a partner for the final challenge.

Okay. You had a partner for the final challenge. Okay. But then whoever of that partnership finished first, they got to decide if they got to keep the money, the full amount of the money, or if they would share it with their partner who had to help them along the way to complete the challenge. And in previous seasons, was it that you always just got the money yourself? Yeah, you just got the money or you automatically just split it with your partner if you had a partner. Okay. Yeah. Just split it with your partner if you had a partner.

Okay. Yeah. And so on this season, Johnny Bananas, who is my favorite challenge participant ever, he won. And Sarah was his partner. And she was like, I know Johnny Bananas is bad news, but I completely trust him. I know he'll split the money with me. Like she had double crossed him one time before, like way back on another season. And then at the end, he won and he did it faster. And so he kept the fucking money.

He didn't give her a dime. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And to my knowledge, I do not believe that Sarah has participated in another challenge after that. She was devastated. You know what I've heard? I've heard she never spoke another word again.

You know what? As you were building up to that point, I was like, oh, okay, and he shared the money and Brandi cried. No. No. It rocked your world. It did. I thought for sure he would share the money. I was like, nobody's that cold. He couldn't have done it thought for sure he would share the money. I was like, nobody's that cold.

He couldn't have done it without her. You don't know Johnny Bananas. He fucking kept the money. Johnny Bananas. Brandi's never been the same. I haven't. Ooh. Airdna. Airdna. Airdna Airdna

I'm sorry I'm not sure that I'm pronouncing that correctly I'm sure you are wants to know what is something you don't want to go back to normal after the pandemic I think social distancing should just keep on keeping on I don't

need to be able to feel your breath on my neck in the grocery checkout line. Unless it's Wes. And then he's going to feel your breath. You know, I think right now I am so eager for everything to go back to normal. I'm like, bring it all on. I just wouldn't mind if people just stayed the fuck back a little bit. Okay. Okay.

Calm down. I've gotten very used to my large bubble. Nat likes cats. I can't even. I can't even. Nat likes cats. They say, man, oh, man, do I also enjoy breakfast for dinner. I did get very passionate about breakfast for dinner on our last episode.

You have a few passions in life. That's one of them. This is where Nat Likes Cats loses me, though. What? But I'm staunchly anti-sweet breakfast. I am, too. What? Yeah, it makes my tummy.

Waffles? Pancakes? What? Anti that? It's not that I'm anti that stuff. It's that, like, I've got to have an egg or something, some protein. Otherwise, I'm just going to spew my guts up. I can't go running on sugar.

Okay, here's my favorite breakfast. Okay. Courtesy of the Big Biscuit, which is one of my favorite breakfast restaurants in the Kansas City area. It is called the Red, White, and Blue Waffle. Let me take you on a tour of what it is. Hey, have you ever Googled blue waffle?

No, what is that? Is it something gross? Is it something gross? I don't know. Do it. Oh, no. Is it bad? No, I'm scared.

You should be. I'm scared. You'll want to do an image search. Okay, I'm just... Oh, God! That's not real. Is that real? Probably not.

Well, I hope not. Yeah, the whole thing is Blue Waffle STD. Is it real? Everyone, don't look that up at work. Anyway, let me tell you about my delicious red, white, and blue waffle. It is a Belgian waffle with blueberries mixed in.

Atop that are sliced strawberries and bananas heaped in the middle. And then in the edges, you know, where the crease is in the waffle eye. Sure, sure. There's a dollop of whipped cream. Mm-hmm. And then there's a light dusting of powdered sugar atop the entire plate. It's fucking delicious. I was going to say, are you so hungry right now?

The passion. My God, the passion. Anyway, yes, I love sweet breakfast. It would have been funny if you'd been like, no, not really that interested. Thank you. Betty wants to know, what is something that feels like a cult, but it's not a cult? And then Michael the dumb hoe answered. He said, MLM schemes.

Wait, not a question for me. Good question, though. I totally agree. I think that is the best answer. Yeah, because they give people all that training about, like, if somebody says no. And the language. Yeah. Yes, yes.

And then, like, they've got the flow chart of, like, if they say this, then you say that. And also, look how amazing your life could be. And look how good your skin's going and look how good your skin's gonna look and your hair's gonna be longer and your ass is gonna be perkier and your ass is gonna be longer too. If you make everybody wear those fucking mom jeans, Kristen.

Nobody wants a long ass. You would look delightful with a long ass. They'd call you Long Ass Brandy. No, that is exactly. Okay. Very culty.

Yeah. And, you know, part of the training is like people might say something ridiculous to you. Like, hey, this is a pyramid scheme. Yeah. And here's how you respond to that. My God. What a mess. Oh.

This is not a question, but I feel the need to mention it. What, did someone ask you about your favorite waffle? Dips everything in salsa, says Brandy. I just wanted to let you know that I, too, blow spit bubbles. Ew. It's my spit bubbles. Ew. It's my party trick. No. My boys think it's the coolest thing ever.

Your boys are wrong. No. Stop. Stop immediately. Everyone doing this, stop. I hate it. Ian Scott wants to know, how has it been working together since starting the podcast? Do you guys ever get into arguments slash disagreements?

Remember the Greyhound bus disagreement? Yeah, you were real wrong about that. You were super wrong about it. You've never been more wrong. You've never been wronger. You were the wrongest. No, it's been, you know what? Okay, so this past year has been pure hell but i was thinking it would have been awful to not have the podcast completely agree i can't imagine

yeah what it would have been like yeah because like getting together and talking to you and like having this thing and feeling kind of connected to other people has been so important. I can't imagine if we didn't have it. Yeah. And I hate working with you. Sorry, Dottie needs to go. Dottie. Dottie.

I think you're probably going to have to take her down because Norm's in class. Oh, that's right. Oh, my gosh. I so have an answer to this. What? You've said that to, to like 12 of these questions. No icing in the Oreos. What's your favorite perfume as a teenager?

I'm showing my age, but mine was Electric Youth by Debbie Gibson. Okay. I for sure. And a signature scent. Oh, what was your signature scent? It was sold exclusively at Pacific Sunware. It was called Leeloo, and it just smelled like I was just like the coolest girl who just came in off the beach. I thought you wore Hollister.

Oh, I'm sorry, man. I never wore Hollister. I think Hollister was too expensive. I think at Hollister was too expensive. I had a Victoria's Secret perfume that made me feel very adult and cool.

It was kind of a vanilla-y scent. Oh yeah, an old lady smell. Yeah, it really was. And I feel like it was just a number. Like 22. Were you feeling 22? I was feeling 22. So PacSun stopped making Leeloo and I was devastated.

Yeah. And then I went in there one day as a grown-ass woman and I was like, hey, do you guys have anything like Leeloo? And they're like, oh, yeah, we totally have this new scent and it's exactly like it, except we don't sell it in stores. You have to order it online. But it smells exactly like Leeloo. Were they lying to you? And so I ordered it.

Unsmelled. Smelled nothing like Leeloo. Yeah. Okay. See, I am running low on perfume and I kind of don't want to go sniffing stuff right now. But I can't pull the trigger on online perfume. Here's the deal. Casey just pulled the trigger on online perfume and it smells so fucking good.

And it's got like 8 million reviews about how good it smells and how it smells different on everyone. I think I'm going to order it. What is it? It's the Glossier perfume. Oh. Hmm. Do you have a, are you angry about this? Not about the perfume.

I ordered some of their makeup a while ago. Oh! And let me tell you something. I saw a meme the other day that was like, Glossier is like the LaCroix of makeup. I agree. It was just like you had a wisp of makeup on. Yeah, and I'm like, I'm not trying to look natural.

I'm not going for a natural look here. I guess that's not really a comment on the product. It's a comment on me. But I was like, hmm. Hmm. So what, does the perfume smell like water or something?

It smells so good. Really? Yeah, I think I'm gonna order it. Okay. Or maybe David, David. You also, you are a perfume cuss word. I love perfume. Well, I mean, I like, you know, I'm in.

In what? Bondage? No, I'm in people's business. So I think my aroma, like it can't be too strong, but then it also has to, like I have to smell good. Yeah. It's a delicate line. It's a balance. Yeah, because you don't want me like in your business cutting your hair and having like this overwhelming like perfume smell coming off. No, I don balance. Yeah, because you don't want me in your business cutting your hair and having this overwhelming perfume smell coming off.

No, I don't. Yeah. I also don't want you smelling like a blue waffle. So it is a balance between blue waffle and Glossier perfume. Anyway, I was going to send a subliminal message to David. Yeah, it's real subtle. David. David.

David. It'd be a subliminal message to David. Yeah, it's real subtle. David. David. David. It'd be a great Mother's Day or birthday present. Fist fuck raccoon. Did I ever tell you that story? No. We were going to, okay, it was like my mom and dad and Norm and I, we were going to some barbecue restaurant in North Carolina. It was still when like, you know, GPSs were kind of newish.

And it literally, the GPS sounded like it was saying, red, white, and blue, fist fuck raccoon. And so now, every now and then. You just got to say it. You just got to say it. And you know what I got to do right now? Supreme Court inductions! That's right. What episode are we on?

You know, 171. You know. You know. Here we go. This week, we are continuing to read your names and your favorite cookies. I'm so hungry. This is going to be terrible. Okay, do you want to do names or cookies?

I'll do names. Unless you child. Devin W. Underbaked M&M cookie. Nadine Wilkinson. Shortbread cookies. Morgan Ferguson. Chocolate chip. Sam.

Girl Scout tag-along cookies. Chassity. Chocolate chip, but without the chocolate chips. That is a sugar cookie. Chastity. It's not because it's got brown sugar in it. Oh my gosh. A sugar cookie has no brown sugar in it.

Okay, okay, I stand corrected. It's a brown sugar cookie. I feel like a fool. Tiffany. Lemon shortbread cookie. That's amazing. Lisa Lomasney. Dutch windmill cookies.

Kimberly Pilatofsky. Brown butter bourbon chocolate chunk. Okay. All right. All right. I see you. Rachel Havern. Chocolate chip.

Zenon. Oatmeal chocolate chip. Amber Evans. My husbandatmeal chocolate chip. Amber Evans. My husband's salted chocolate chip cookies. Oh, stop it. Crisp. Double chocolate sour cream drop cookie. Tasha Monet.

Peanut butter Reese's. Kristen Mandigo. Warm peanut butter. Isabella Baker. Macaroons. I'm butter. Isabella Baker. Macaroons. I'm French. Julia Hancock. Does a brookie count?

Brownie slash cookie. Obviously. Yes, of course. Kayla. Chocolate chip. Mallory Page. Oatmeal chocolate chip. Quintana Mara.

Chocolate chip and peanut butter. Oh, never had the pleasure. Seems good though Yeah Captain Fart Sails Again Oatmeal Raisin Welcome to the Supreme Court Captain Fart Sails Again

Thank you for joining us It's really a pleasure to have you aboard Thank you for all of your support. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five-star review while you're there. And then be sure to join us next week.

When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from an episode of Web of Lies titled Final Sale, a Dateline episode titled The

Client, and reporting from Arkansas Online. I got my info from an episode of Snapped, a series of articles for the Morning Journal by Keith Reynolds and the Sandusky Register. I can't believe it was an episode of Snapped. It's shocking news, isn't it?

For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.