Let's Go To Court! - 175: A Cult & the Murder of Doris Angleton

Episode Date: May 26, 2021

Sherry Shriner had a wacky belief: That alien lizards had come to Earth, shape shifted into human form, and were conspiring to put the antichrist in power. Sherry shared this belief online, and incredibly, her views gained traction. Soon, thousands of people came to believe the “prophet” Sherry Shriner’s teachings. Steven Mineo and his girlfriend Barbara Rogers were two of Sherry’s loyal followers. But when Barbara made a Facebook post about steak tartare, their online community turned on them. Then Kristin tells us about the Angleton family. The Angletons had it all. They lived in an affluent area of Houston, Texas. They belonged to the best country club. They hobnobbed with all the right people. Bob Angleton worked long hours as a bookie. His hard work meant big money. But the money couldn’t make up for the problems in Bob and Doris’ marriage. So in February of 1997, Doris asked Bob for a divorce. Two months later, police discovered Doris Angleton dead in her home. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: An episode of The Dead Wives Club titled, “The Bookie’s Wife” “The Bookmaker’s Wife,” by Skip Hollandsworth for Texas Monthly  An episode of Power Privilege and Justice titled, “The Murder of Doris Angleton”  “Doris Angleton” entry on Wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Online Alien Reptiles” episode Deadly Cults “Man's Online Feud With Reptile-Fearing Cult Ends In Bizarre Murder” by Erik Hawkins, Oxygen “Reptile Cult Feud Ends in Death” by Kelly Weill, The Daily Beast “It looked like a simple domestic murder. Then police learned about the alien reptile cult.” by Kyle Swenson, The Washington Post “Homicide Trial: Woman Claims Online Alien Cult Led to Deadly Shooting” by Carmella Mataloni, WNEP16 News “Tobyhanna woman convicted in cult-related slaying” The Pocono Record “She killed her boyfriend because of an alien cult – and was sentenced to up to 40 years” by Ryan W. Miller, USA Today “Barbara Rogers Loses Murder Appeal” by Alberto Luperon, LawandCrime.com     YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 19+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about the murder of Doris Angleton. And I'll be talking about a cult. Which one? Let's Go to Court. No. Okay, I did finally watch the whole, the vow. Fuck. I would have got sucked right into that thing.

It starts as like an MLM. Personal development. Before you know it, you've been branded right on your vagina. Yeah. But, okay, I don't mean to criticize, but have you ever found out about a cult and been like, you know what, I wouldn't get sucked in? Well, yeah, there's no way they'd be recruiting me. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying, like, have you heard about a cult? Oh, yeah.

The one I'm going to tell you about today, not a fucking chance. Not a chance. Okay. Not a fucking chance. Like, you think Charles Manson would have sucked you in? For sure. That hairy guy playing volleyball, wanting to help you with your personal development. You would have been like, absolutely.

Give me one of those scarves to wear. This one? Lizard aliens? Nope. What? Not a chance. Okay. Okay.

I'm very excited. Very excited. Is this like a... Okay, no, I'm going to stop asking questions. I'm just going to listen. I'm going to keep my pants on. I found a new show. What is it?

It's called... What? Deadly Cults. Okay. Move over, accident, suicide, or murder. Hello, Deadly Cults. move over accident suicide or murder hello deadly cults um I found a new

show this week as well that has a terrible title and I'll save it is yours from an episode yeah

you'll just have to wait along with the listeners you know you've always been a tease yeah that happens when everyone

Wants what you're selling You guys I just did a very seductive dance Super seductive I put on jeans today I know you have like a top Should we tell the people what we just did We went to A restaurant No, you have like a top. Should we tell the people what we just did? We went to a restaurant.

It was wild. It was. That's been over a year for me. Yeah. It was delightful. Oh, my gosh. We ate lunch in a restaurant. It felt normal.

It did. Well, no, it didn't feel normal because we kept being like, can you believe we're doing this? Oh, my gosh. That is accurate. We're sitting in a restaurant. It felt normal. It did. Well, no, it didn't feel normal because we kept being like, can you believe we're doing this? Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. That is true. That is accurate. We're sitting in a booth. Yeah.

It was very exciting. It was. You know what else is exciting? Our Patreon. Damn Skippy. Woo! We got all kinds of exciting stuff going on over there.

Hey. Including bonus episodes. No pressure, Brandi, but we are recording a new one tomorrow. Yeah. Why do we do this to ourselves? I don't know. For the people.

It's for the people. They want the meaty boys. The people. And we deliver. That's right. At the $5 lever. Whoa. At the $5 level.

Level, you can be Kristen's lover. Just pull the lever and you'll be my lover. Won't you be my lover? Won't you be my lover? Only $5, so we don't insert quality. You get into the Discord, Chitty Chat the Day Away. You get meaty boys. You get, what are we at, 22?

We're recording our 23rd one tomorrow. Yeah, 23 bonus episodes. Randy looks smug about it. Yeah. If that's not enough for you. That's a lot. That's Yeah. 23 bonus episodes. Randy looks smug about it. Yeah. If that's not enough for you. That's a lot. That's a lot of bonus content. The hours, I couldn't even tell you.

A lot. Probably like, you know, whatever two and a half times 23 is. You know. Don't ask me. Upwards of 50. At the $7 level, you get all that plus. What are we talking about? Oh, my God.

You get a bonus video. Bonus video. Jesus. You also get. Or and or. What do you mean and or? Monthly hangout. Oh, yeah, yeah.

We're going to do. You've already forgotten. You've already forgotten. No, I have not. I have not forgotten. I was just thinking, you don't get to choose. No, no, no. So we've got a backlog of bonus videos that you immediately gain access to.

This is a terrible ad. This is a terrible ad. Also, Dottie is licking my toes right now, and I'm trying to be a professional, but I just can't. Anyway, you get all that. Yeah. And you get inducted on the podcast. You get a sticker and a card with our autographs in it. What more could you want?

I'll tell you what more. You could want the Bob Moss level. That's $10. You get all of it. All of it. We cram it all into this $10 list. You get ad-free episodes.

And you get them a day early. Plus 10% off on merch. T-shirts and stickers. Stickers and T-shirts. Today or, no, I guess it was yesterday. Norm came downstairs and I was

signing my autograph. I said, can you fucking believe this? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I was signing my autograph. Oh. I said, can you fucking believe this? Felt like a pretty big deal. Obviously. Did you tell him not to look directly in your eyes? Well, he kind of laughed because I. You had your tits out robe on.

I was wearing my bathrobe at the time. And I just cleaned up some dog vomit. So, you know, it was a glamorous time. Let me stop cleaning up dog vomit because I need my autograph. You know, you say it like that, and it's like, I sound like a crazy person who thinks people want my autograph. Get ready to experience an all-new Dawn Valley North Lexus. Dawn Valley North Lexus has temporarily relocated around the corner to 7200 Victoria Park Avenue while they build a brand new dealership for you. The deals don't stop though. Get loyalty rates as low as 1.9 percent, delivery credits up to

$1,500 and save up to $7,000 on select demonstrator models. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. You want to talk about a cult? I do. I'm very excited. So I stumbled across this new show, Deadly Cults on Oxygen, obviously. Actually, I really did legitimately stumble onto this. So at the end of like the article on Oxygen's website that I used as a source for our last episode, there was like a other cases you might enjoy. And it was like deadly cults and like the headline.

I can't remember what it was, but it just got me and I clicked it and I was like, let me just dip my toe in that and see if I'll enjoy it. Okay. And boy, did I enjoy it. So shout out, obviously, to that Deadly Cults episode, as well as to Kelly Wheel, W-E-I-L-L, Wheel. Sure. At the Daily Beast. She did a great article on this case.

You ready? I'm ready. Kristen? Mm-hmm. It was 2.38 in the morning on July 15th, 2017, when 42-year-old Barbara Rogers called 911 from her home in Tobyhanna. Tobyhanna? I don't know. Pennsylvania,

which is an unincorporated community in Monroe County, about 110 miles north of Philadelphia. My boyfriend had a gun, she told the dispatcher. He told me to press it here and pull the trigger, and oh my God, he's dead.

When police arrived at the home, Barbara shared with her boyfriend, 32-year-old Steven Mineo, which most articles called a double-wide trailer. But Barbara herself is interviewed on this show, and she called it a studio apartment. So I did a little digging, and it looks to me like what it actually was was that they rented what was essentially like a converted shed on the same property as a larger double wide trailer i'm glad you got to the bottom of this you know i don't like inconsistencies i know you don't i know you don't anyway when the police arrived at the couple's home they found steve minio dead from a gunshot wound to the head. Officers took

a very distraught Barbara Rogers down to the station where she sat down in an interrogation room with Pocono Mountain Regional Police Detective John Borman. Barbara told Detective Borman a few very vague versions about how Steve ended up dead on the floor of their home. They were standing on opposite sides of the room and Barbara had his gun and it accidentally went off. Or maybe they were messing around with the gun and Steve put the gun in Barbara's hands and pulled the trigger himself. Or maybe Steve had forced the gun into her hand and forced her to pull the trigger. This is sounding weirdly like your case from last week. I know.

With each vague version, Barbara told, Detective Borman pushed back. They had already learned a lot from the scene by this point. They knew that Steve had been shot in the forehead while he was in a seated position crisscross applesauce style on the floor and they knew that the gun had been pressed against his forehead when it was fired when pressed with this information barbara told the detective that she didn't know what to say she didn't know what to tell them and detective't know what to tell them. And Detective Borman said, how about you try the truth? And with that, Barbara took a deep breath and told the detective the weirdest fucking story he'd ever heard.

Okay. It had all started more than a decade earlier when Steve was in his late teens, maybe early 20s. Steve had been a painfully shy kid, and he turned to the internet for his social interaction. For years, he lived almost entirely in an online world. His only social contacts came from message boards, Facebook, YouTube videos. It was in 2004 that Steve first started watching videos posted to YouTube by Sherry Schreiner. She claimed to be a granddaughter of King David. You know, the one from the Bible. How?

Okay. You know, the one from the Bible. How? Okay. And was a self-proclaimed, this is a quote, servant, prophet, ambassador, daughter, and messenger of the Most High God. Oh, no. Schreiner preached that the New World Order was colluding with aliens and demons to take over the world. That a mystical substance called Orgon could kill zombies. And that reptilian aliens posing as humans were dumping snakes down people's throats to scalp their souls.

Oh, no. Stop them. You must stop them now. Okay, I'm very intrigued. Steve was one of the first people to join Sherry Shriner's Facebook page. He'd already been dabbling in the truther movement, so it wasn't much of a stretch to find himself aligned with Sherry. Well, yeah, this is not the first thing you find. This is not step one.

Yeah, exactly. It wasn't long before he was a full-blown disciple of Sherry's. Sherry took a special interest in Stephen. Well, yeah, because he was probably, like, her only follower. Initially, yeah. Though they never met in person because Sherry was an extremely private person who took extreme measures

to keep her personal information private, she took on almost a maternal role in Stephen's life. She counseled him and Steve, in turn turn did some work for her building websites and blogs as her following grew. The foundation of Sherry's community, or cult as I'm going to call it from here on out, was that a race of reptilian shape-shifting aliens had infiltrated the human civilization and these reptilians had an agenda. They were going to bring the Antichrist to power by infiltrating the highest ranks of human civilization. Basically, they believed that the most powerful political figures and celebrities were lizard people. OK. people.

Okay. And that they had gained those positions of power with the agenda of bringing the Antichrist himself to power. Why did they want to do that? So the Antichrist could lead the world, Kristen. Okay. Kristen. Okay. Sorry. Sherry had a background in journalism.

Did she? She told her followers that she was called by the Lurd to leave that and dedicate her life to spreading the word about the New World Order. Sherry spread the word to her flock through a podcast and blogs and YouTube videos. What did she look like? What?

So she was extremely private. Okay. There are like a handful of pictures of her and they are all very old. Maybe she's the lizard person. Maybe. She amassed a cult of upwards of 20,000 followers. Shut up. Mm-hmm.

By saying there are lizard people who want to bring the Antichrist to power? Yes, ma'am. You know what, Brandy? Damn it. This is going to be one of those episodes where people write in. I know. And they're going to be like, actually. Actually.

Lizard people are real. I hate to tell you, dumb bitches. I hate to be the one to tell you, but there is a pedophilia ring in the basement of Comic Ping Pong Pizza. to tell you, but there is a pedophilia ring in the basement of comic ping pong pizza. Oh, no. Yep. Okay. Okay, here we go.

Here we go. I need to know more. The lizard people, they're shapeshifters. You don't know they're lizard people. They look like regular people when they walk among you, but when they are home by themselves, they shed that human skin. The curtains close. That's right.

How did Sherry find out about all this? It's in the Bible. No, it's not. It's in the Bible. Where? In the Bible? It is. You know, if you can't see the Bible for what it is, then that is on you.

Fair enough. Sounds like Sherry's really reading between the lines. Sherry's cult was very religion based. Okay. I don't know which version of the Bible. Like specifically, there are mentions of like in the King James Bible that they intentionally left out something in a translation that showed that like it was Jesus was actually not God's son. He's the son of Satan. What? Yeah.

Yeah. This is all very shocking information. That's right. That's right right you've been lied to sheeple yeah it was in 2011 that steve minio met barbara rogers online through their shared interest in sherry's ideology the two began chatting and then flirting. Ew. Steve had never had a girlfriend before. You're kidding. Steve is dead.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm getting sketched out by these beliefs and I'm losing sight of what has happened. Okay. After an online courtship, the two decided to move together to the Pocono Mountain area of Pennsylvania where they rented that small studio apartment. She was 10 years older than Steve and had served in the military for like seven years before she was medically discharged due to being diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

She served in the military and she believed that the highest ranking people in this country are lizards who go home and become lizards. Okay. Okay. There are multiple facets to the reptilian belief system. Oh, well, it sounds complicated. Lots of people believe that the lizards are actually like 12 feet tall when they shed their human skin. Well, you know what? Okay. In fairness, yes. Because it'd be kind of lame. And then they just shrunk down to a little bit of cute things. Yeah. Then it seems like the problem could be contained. Yeah, no.

They are like 12 foot tall lizards who then like shapeshift themselves down to fit our human skins. That's why rich people all have such tall ceilings. That is why. Figured it out. It all makes sense when you think about it. Elon Musk is obsessed with getting into space. Oh, because he's originally from, well. He's a lizard person.

But see, even that doesn't make sense. Because if he's a lizard person. He's a lizard person. If he's a lizard person. If I've ever seen someone who looks like their skin doesn't fit properly. But for real, if the lizards came from another planet They know how to get back Don't you think?

Right? He wants to get the rest of us into space I thought he wanted to bring the anti-crisis Yeah, it's all part of the plan Here's the thing It's all part, no One thing at a time It's a multi-faceted plan

No You'll never get it done part of the plan. Here's the thing. It's all part. No. One thing at a time. It's a multifaceted plan. No. You'll never get it done if you have everything on your plate. He's gonna get overwhelmed. Poor Elon's gonna wake up. Do I want to go to space or do I want to bring back the Antichrist? Who knows? It's a tough day.

I'm not sure. Oh shit, I just walked out the door. I forgot to shape check. I forgot to put on my human suit. I suggest we all read the book Burnout, which is what I'm reading right now. It really helps with stress and stuff. So following their move to the Poconos, which I don't actually know. I assume that's where they're at. Pocono Mountains. That sounds like the Poconos, right? It't actually know. I assume that's where they're at. Pocono Mountains.

That sounds like the Poconos, right? It's got to be the same place. What do you mean? Yeah. I mean, I realized that I wrote the Poconos here and then I was like, wait, what if those are two different areas? I mean, we've never been wrong before. The couple lived an almost hermit-like life, but it seemed to work for them. It appeared they were very much in love.

Despite never actually marrying, Steve called Barbara his wife, and she referred to herself as Barbara Mineo. They spent nearly all of their time inside their studio, existing almost entirely online, and they were devoted followers of sherry schreiner and very active members of her cult what did they do for money i don't know so if barbara was medically discharged then she would receive some sort of benefit yes a pretty sizable benefit for being, yeah. So maybe they lived off of that. Yeah, that would have to be it.

Yeah. Okay. And they seemed happy in that life until one day in April 2017, when the whole of Sherry's followers turned on Steve and Barbara. It started with a Facebook post. To Barbara, it seemed harmless. But to the followers, it was a warning. I love this. What happened? Barbara posted a picture of steak tartare what's wrong with that according

to wikipedia traditional steak tartare is a dish made from raw beef or horse which has been chopped by hand using a knife or cleaver right it is usually served with onions cap pepper, Worcestershire sauce, and other seasonings, and then topped with a raw egg yolk. Right. So. This is the best thing ever with cut up minced garlic, Barbara wrote. I just crave raw meat all the time for some reason. I know some of you are grossed out by it, but it is a delicacy for me.

Is she a lizard? Oh my God, is that what they think? She's a lizard? While Barbara thought the post might get some comments about raw meat being gross, instead, what she received was a complete onslaught from her fellow cult members, accusing her of being a lizard person. Steve and Barbara were taken aback. These were their people. How could they turn on them like this? As one of Sherry Shriner's earliest followers, Steve reached out to her directly. He asked her why her followers were accusing Barbara of being reptilian.

And her response shocked him. She said something to the effect of, Because she eats raw meat, obviously. raw meat, obviously. Sherry Schreiner even went so far as to attack Barbara in a post on her blog. In the post, she referenced the steak tartare post, but

went on to say that the picture Barbara had posted showed the dish pictured next to a pile of feces. Which, as far as I could find is not the case. You're kidding. And she said that this practice

was common in Satanist groups. She called Barbara a witch and a vampire with a thirst for blood. Okay, is she a lizard, a witch, or a vampire? It's the lion, the witch, and the wartrope.

I'm every woman. She said, what Christian girl goes around ingesting raw hamburger meat? Well, it's not hamburger meat. Okay. It's beef. Yeah, but, okay. Okay. It's beef.

Yeah, but, okay. I mean, so when these people go to Outback and somebody orders a rare steak, do they all just lose their shit? Yeah, they're like, there's a fucking lizard over there. Well, but, okay. Again, the lizard people, they're supposed to be the most powerful, famous people. Like, you're not going to find them at the local Outback. You're not going to find them in a double-wide trailer in the Poconos. Are you? I don't know.

Are you? I guess the only way to find out is to set up cameras. It's almost as if these beliefs weren't based in anything and they just... But how did 20,000 people... If your leader is saying this woman is a... But that's nuts. That's Christian. It is.... But that's nuts. Yes, Christian. It is.

But here's the thing. Every time you learn about a cult, there's always that initial period where you're like, okay, I can see how in the right frame of mind someone could get sucked in. I don't get this one. I told you I wouldn't be sucked into this cult.

I fucking told you there's not a chance in hell I would have been sucked into this one. I told you I wouldn't be sucked into this cult. I fucking told you there's not a chance in hell I would have been sucked into this one. So you would just have to be the type of person who already has a strong dislike and distrust of all politicians. Yep. All celebrities. Yeah, all authority figures even. Okay, okay. Yeah. A truther, if you will.

All right. I've seen the light. Reptiles. Tell me more. Steve was extremely troubled by Sherry's actions and claims against

the woman he loved. And he told her as much. He said, the Heavenly Father knows that she's not a reptilian. Oh, my God. We've been friends for a long time, and I have always supported you. Out of all due respect, I do take offense to this. Which I can't imagine how hard that probably was for him to like push back against the woman that he has believed in and followed blindly for 12 plus years at this point.

Yeah. Yeah. Steve was so distraught that he didn't really know who to believe. He had been such a loyal follower of Sherry Shriners for so many years. Was it possible that she was seeing something in Barbara that he couldn't see? Oh, no. couldn't see. Oh no. As he began to question everything he'd known and everything he had believed since he was a teenager, he reached out to a trusted friend outside of the cult. Her name was Lori Alexander and she was someone he'd met online, obviously. And she was well-versed in biblical prophecy.

So, you know, she wasn't a cult follower, but she had her own beliefs. And Steve asked Lori flat out if she believed that Barbara was a lizard person. Can you imagine? I could not. I cannot. And Lori said, I could not. I cannot. And Lori said, of course not. Lori then told Steve that it looked to her like he was having a crisis of faith.

And perhaps he should take a look at Sherry Shriner's teachings from a biblical perspective. She said, I want you to take a look at what she's saying. It's insanity. Look at things from a biblical point of view. And biblically, what she's saying is crazy. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that there's some magic rock that's going to protect us from aliens and demons and other things that's the belief that they have yeah there's there's this rock called organ that will kill reptilians and that was one of the things that he pointed out to sherry shriner when she was like barbara's a lizard person he's, but I have organ and... Oh my god. And she lives with me. If she was a

lizard person, it would have killed her. Uh-huh. Yeah. So just the presence of it will kill the lizard, or do you have to... I'm sorry. You're asking me things I don't know the answer to, Kristen. Brandy, I'm gonna need you to infiltrate this cult and report back.

So essentially, Laurie was like, no, your wife is not a lizard person. And oh, by the way, maybe you should take another look at who you are following and see that her preachings, which she claims to be deeply religious, are not based in the Bible in any way. And it seems that's exactly what Steve spent the next couple of months doing. His crisis of faith continued to grow when he began to question everything that he had wholeheartedly believed for so long. And all the while, the attacks from the other cult members kept coming. About a month after the original steak tartare post, Barbara took to her Facebook again to defend herself. I like to try exotic foods and I will continue to do so, she wrote.

It's fun and does not make me some inhuman entity. To think I am is quite laughable indeed. That post did little to quell the attack both Barbara and Steve were now under constantly from Sherry Shriner's followers. The rift between Steve and the cult grew until finally he broke from them completely and went on the offensive. In a series of YouTube videos posted from May 29th to July 11th, Steve Mineo set out to expose Sherry Shrinererry thinks that barbara is a reptilian because barbara posts pictures of food on her facebook account he fumed in one of the videos disrespectful i think disrespectful doesn't begin to describe it but wow okay he then uploaded five anti-Schreiner videos, including Sherry Schreiner exposed by her own followers.

Parts one through three. Sherry Schreiner is extremely desperate now that she's been exposed. And Sherry Schreiner supporters are mentally sick. sick. In the last video, which he uploaded four days before his death, Steve said he and Rogers had been under attack from Shriner's followers since leaving her circle. He said, I used to be a supporter of Sherry Shriner and so were a couple of others, but we got kicked to the curb. And now we've got all of these lies that are being said on us. For example, FBI and high level witches and all this crazy stuff. Everybody that supports her has lost their minds. Look at these people's comments. You'll see it. They're no longer truthers. They are worshipers of sherry schreiner and they are mentally ill people

oh my i think the interesting thing there the sad thing there is that while he's separated himself from her beliefs he's still yeah he hasn't figured it all out. No. Yeah. Yeah. Once he started putting these videos out there, her followers completely and like totally started attacking him. It was a constant thing on the Internet all day long, every day. Barbara said he got to the point where it was just wearing him down. The threats that he was constantly under ranged from bizarre to seriously concerning.

Followers threatened to drink Barbara's blood or feed her to their queen. To share? What? I mean, I assume that's what that means. Well, wouldn't she be eating? Okay. I'm just saying that sounds. I know that sounds more reptilian than steak tartare.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Would you ever eat steak tartare? No. Good. That's the first test. Yeah, I passed it. Yeah, all right. Good. I don't want to hold that rock you're trying to tartare? No. Good. That's the first test. Yeah, I passed it. Yeah, all right.

Good. I don't want to hold that rock you're trying to get me to do. You know what? Just the fact that you're in the room with the rock is all I need. I feel much better now. Eventually, it escalated so far that members were sending Barbara and Steve pictures of their own house, like taunting them, saying, we know where you live. Barbara begged Steve to like get off the computer, disengage.

But that's where his whole life was built. He had spent years and years of his life existing solely online. his life existing solely online on the day of steve's death he had been like drawn into this feud online with two of sherry shriner's followers so that night to get his mind off of things she took him out to a local pub in town like they had a couple drinks neither Neither of them got drunk, but they just kind of tried to unwind and they stayed until close. Once they got home, Steve suggested that they like go out into the woods. And it was like two o'clock in the morning. He wanted to go out into the woods, take their guns. They each had handguns.

Barbara's like was like a military issue. It was her gun from when she served in the military. And just like shoot it in the woods just to like blow off steam. At night? Yeah. I mean, it was pretty secluded property, so. Well, I would hope it was really secluded. The way that Barbara described it was as if it was something that

happened very regularly. Okay. I'm shy of no doubt. So they went out back, fired some guns, you know, like people do. And then they came back to the house. And at that point, Barbara said they were in their bedroom and Steve put his gun to his own head and wrapped her hands around it and begged her to pull the trigger. Barbara said, I tried to talk him out of it. I begged him to get up.

So despite having shed like his whole reptilian ideology, Steve Minio was still a deeply religious person. And he believed that if he died by suicide, he wouldn't go to heaven. So according to Barbara, he sat there on the floor of their bedroom that night and begged her to pull the trigger. He couldn't handle the online attacks anymore. He basically lost his entire support system by leaving this cult. The threats had become too big, too constant, and he didn't know how to live in a world that existed anywhere other than online. So Barbara told investigators that she pulled the trigger.

investigators that she pulled the trigger. She then told conflicting versions of whether or not she believed the gun was actually loaded. But one part of the story that never changed was that after shooting Steve, she could not grasp that he lay dead on the floor. She spent 20 minutes trying to wake him up and begging him to get up before she called 911. She said she just couldn't believe that it had actually happened. She couldn't believe that she'd actually killed him. So she's sitting in an interrogation room relaying this whole sordid tale to investigators. And after she finished telling it, Barbara Rogers was arrested and charged with the murder of Steve Mineo.

cult gained publicity, Sherri Schreiner took to the internet to defend herself and double down on her claims about Barbara Rogers. You're kidding. Steve wasn't involved in a cult, Sherri Schreiner said on her radio show. I am not a cult. I am not a cult leader. show. I am not a cult. I am not a cult leader. On her website, she continued her comments at length. They're trying to spin it that I'm responsible for Steve's death. No, Barb is, she wrote in this blog post. I tried to protect Steve. I tried to warn him about Barbara Rogers, and he wouldn't listen to me. He thought I was insulting his wife when I was trying to protect him from her. I knew what she was. He began to realize what I said about her was true, and that's why she killed him, to protect her lies and keep her secrets.

They want to call me a cult leader? No. I am just a humble servant and messenger of the Most High. I've spent my life serving him. And for that, I get beat up by Cain's children, libtards, witches, Satanists, and haters everywhere. I warned Steve Mineo that she was a vampire, witch, reptilian, super soldier. A super soldier?

Super soldier. Not a super soaker. No. Super soldier. And now he's dead because he wouldn't listen to me. What's a super soldier? I don't fucking know. Randy, come on.

Listen, it wasn't a chance in hell I was going to any of her websites, Kristen. It's that I'm on a list and then maybe I do get sucked into a cult. Yeah, that's how it happens. I'm just going to do a little research. Hold on. Hold on. She just made a very interesting point there. Okay, 12-foot lizard people.

Uh-huh. I do see what you're saying. I have seen Elon Musk. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Starts with a grain of truth, doesn't it, Brandi? That's right. After listening to Barbara's account of Shriner's cult, detectives thought there was probably

enough there to warrant some investigation. So they went to work trying to track Sherry Shriner down. But as I mentioned earlier, Shriner went to extreme measures to keep her personal information secret.

No idea why. Because she was a lizard. It was two lizards in a trench coat this whole time. Including her location. They knew she was somewhere in Ohio, but that was it. Despite their best efforts, detectives weren't having much luck tracking her down.

So they decided just to email her and see if she would agree to an in-person interview. You're kidding. And to their surprise, she emailed back and agreed to sit down with them. However, before that in-person meeting could take place, Sherry Schreiner died of a heart attack. Seriously? Seriously. Or is that what they want you to believe?

How did the lizards get her? The lizards got her. Oh, my God. Her daughter has reportedly since taken over her online empire. Oh, good. Is probably listening right now. Barbara Rogers' murder trial began on March 16th, 2019. You look so cold.

Stop it. Are you cold-blooded? Stop it. You know, cold. Stop it. Are you cold blooded? Stop it. You know I can lick my eyeball. I knew it. Just before the jury was brought in the judge asked Barbara if she would like to accept a plea deal offered up by the prosecution.

Wow. Under the deal, she would plead guilty to third degree murder and receive a sentence of 10 to 15 years. She declined. Oh, no, you got to take that. Right? Yeah. It's like, let me sign that before you change your mind. She declined the deal.

She went to trial. Wow, okay. During their opening arguments, the prosecution walked the jury through what happened the night of the shooting. They talked about how they went to the bar. They stayed till 2 a.m. They drank but didn't get drunk. They went home.

They shot the gun. They got back to the apartment. And Steve, you know, there was some kind of something. Steve put the gun to his own head, according to her claims, but she was the one to pull the trigger. The prosecution said the shooting was not an accident and that Barbara could have prevented it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. The defense told the jury that Steve Mineo's death was an accident and that Barbara didn't know the gun was loaded. I don't believe that. No. I believe that there are questions here about, yes, like what the motive was, all of that. Was Steve really begging her to do it? I think that's very possible. I think Barbara absolutely knew the gun was loaded.

She was very familiar with guns. She'd been in the military. The weight of a loaded gun and an unloaded gun, I think, are very different. I have no idea. I'm going to go with you on that, though. They had been out shooting the gun. Yeah, yeah. I just don't buy this defense strategy right they also told the jury that both barbara and steve were in a state of extreme emotional

distress at the time of the shooting and that they'd been driven there by the reptilian cult that had turned against them following a three-day trial jurors went into their deliberations and they sent a series of questions to the judge. They asked for the difference between first and third degree murder and the definition of beyond a reasonable doubt, among other things. After several hours of deliberations, it seemed the jury was unconvinced that Barbara had intended to kill Steve Mineo. And they found her guilty of third degree murder. Oh.

In Pennsylvania, a third degree murder conviction does not require the intent to kill. It just requires malice, which the state defines as knowledge a person's conduct poses a threat to human life. So basically, she might not have intended to kill him, but she knew by pulling the trigger on a gun that was pressed to his head that that was a threat to human life. Well, yeah. I mean, I would hope we would all know that. Okay. Yeah. But she was sentenced to 15 to 40 years in prison.

Yeah. Should have taken the deal. We tried to tell her. Yeah. But who's going to listen to a couple of lizards, am I right? Barbara appealed her conviction, arguing that the trial judge erred by refusing to instruct the jury that they could find her guilty of the lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter. Her appeal also said that her original statements to police on the night of the shooting should not have been admissible in court because though she'd been properly Mirandized and had waived those rights, she was not in the proper state of mind to make that decision. She was under extreme emotional distress and she had consumed alcohol that evening.

In February of 2021, that appeal was denied. Barbara Rogers remains in prison and she maintains that she very much still loves Steve Mineo and that she hopes her story will serve as a warning to those who are cult curious. Be careful what you decide to believe in, she warns. Wow. Yeah. Oh, oh, that was a weird one. Yeah. That was really weird. Oh, lizard people.

Okay, I've heard the lizard people thing, but never with any depth. Yeah. Got a lot more questions I've got to say. I know. Thinking about trying it out? Very intrigued. Very intrigued. So the reason I don't have the power and success I think I should have right now is because the lizards have taken all the top slots.

That's exactly right. It all makes sense. The Bible foretold it. I could have sworn it didn't. All right. You ready? I am. Here we go.

Shout out to an episode of The Dead Wives Club. Oh. I don't love the name of it. Seems a little disrespectful. Maybe a little too on the nose. I don't know the episode was called the bookie's wife and an article in texas monthly by mr skip hollinsworth titled the bookmaker's wife oh okay did you know when you're feeling formal it's's bookmaker, and when you're a normal person, it's bookie? Well, bookie's short for bookmaker. Exactly, but I've never, like, nobody says bookmaker, right?

Skip Hollinsworth does, and Skip Hollinsworth does what Skip Hollinsworth wants to do. He was interviewed for this TV show. Oh. So I don't mean to brag, but I got kind of a double dose of Skip. Oh. Picture it. It's 1997, and we're in River Oaks, which is the most affluent area of Houston, Texas. Excuse me.

In River Oaks, you can find yourself a $20 million mansion. Fuck. Or if you're poor, you can get one for like one million, I guess. The houses in this 1100 acre community are so big. How big are they? They're so big that in this TV show, they did some aerial footage from very high up in the air. I was like, damn, those places are still big. And that was definitely the case for the Angleton family's home in River Oaks.

Brandy? Do you have an address for us? Hold on. Okay. Just hold on. They had a tutor. I know. I know.

Love a tutor. We love tutors. The place wasudor. We love Tudors. We love Tudors. The place was beautiful. The roof lines, Brandi. The roof lines. Peaks. Just peaks on peaks on peaks.

The trim. I have glorious trim. Just hang on. Hang on. The roof lines on this Tudor were as angular as a supermodel's face. Or as my butt. supermodel's face. Or as my butt. The home was all brick.

None of this just the front's brick bullshit. All brick. Had beautiful detailing around the windows. Shrubs as thick as oatmeal. What? Shrubs as thick as oatmeal. You can't see through the shrubs. That's not a phrase.

That is too. That is too. You know, that guy got in trouble for saying that to a police officer. He said, girl, you're thicker than a bowl of oatmeal. You're right. You're right. I thought of him while I wrote that. Okay.

Because, you know, I also have shrubs. You've seen that clip of him where he's like in court. The thing that's so hard for me is I hate sexual harassment. I love that. The thing is like these shrubs, I've got some shrub envy. You can see through my shrubs, not these shrubs. You need to give your shrubs some oatmeal. That's not how it works, Brandy.

Just spitballing. I'm no gardener. And I don't mean to get your blood pumping, but the home had a circle drive. You know how we feel about circle drives circle drives looks like we made it can you imagine if we both had circle oh my gosh we wouldn't be able to fit these heads through the door if we had circle drives i'm sorry i can't podcast today i have a circle drive. I'm sorry. I can't podcast today. I have a circle drive. Man, I was going to make up something about a tennis lesson. But you're just like, I can't.

The circle drive stops me from doing anything I don't want to do. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Bob and Doris Angleton lived in the home with their 12-year-old twin daughters. Angleton lived in the home with their 12-year-old twin daughters. And please dust off your true crime checklist because I'm about to tell you that the Angletons had what appeared to be the perfect life. Ooh! They had the beautiful home.

Check. Check. They belonged to the best country club. Check. They were super well-connected. Check. They went to supper club. Oh. air to the howard hughes fortune yeah you thought you thought i was done with supper club you were impressed right there was and they sat in the diamond box at the hou Astros games. Fucking check.

One time. What? One time in my life. Okay. I sat in the crown seats. Cubic zirconia. I sat in the crown seats at the Royals game. Are those the ones where, like, they have individual waiters who come? Oh, man.

Yep. Okay. Okay. I bought them on StubHub, like, an hour before the game started. So I got them under face value. Mm. Okay. Okay. I bought them on StubHub like an hour before the game started. So I got them under face value. There is a clubhouse behind that section. Right. Where you can just like live it up.

Uh-huh. Open bar. Food as far as the eye can see. And you know what? If you don't want to be bothered to go through that thing yourself and pick out your snacks, you go sit in your seat. A waiter will bring it to you. Goddamn. It's all included in your ticket price.

And you are as close as you are to me right now is how close the players are when they are at bat. I bet you felt like a queen that day. I did. How much did you pay for those tickets? I think it was under $200. A bargain at any price. I agree. It was like an experience thing.

It wasn't just a Tuesday. Yeah. Tuesday. Also, each of them seem to have in excess of two friends, which I'm told is a thing that can happen to extroverts. I feel like I must say that

the Royals lost by like ten runs that day. Are you like Are you like afraid people are like, whoa, Brandi lives a real glamorous life. Well, I just have to tell you, I also shit myself that day in the Royals Lost. Ate too much of the popcorn. I didn't eat any popcorn.

What did you eat? I drank a few line and kugels, summer shandy. Okay. And I had an ice cream bar brought to me at my seat. It was a Haagen-Dazs one. I'm picturing your face with the real crunchy shell. I know. You didn't have to say. You didn't even have to say.

The look I'm picturing is like when you're very excited, but you don't want to be like, I'm about to die because I'm eating Haagen-Dazs at the Royals game. So it's just like, you're just like a glow from within. I didn't even know it was a possibility until the people behind us ordered it. And then i was like i couldn't stop looking at it you were mesmerized we were surrounded by season ticket holders you know how much season tickets in those seats are no like sixty thousand dollars were you just looking at all you know just you know people with money, people with money, they've got to look. I know. And then they knew the inner workings.

They knew you could get the ice cream bar. There was no nothing saying that you could get an ice cream bar. Yeah, they just knew. They just knew. So then I had to be like, excuse me, no fair. No fair. Yes, I totally know all the ins and outs. You probably remember me.

I would like an ice cream. Sounds like you really made an impression that day. I'm sure that I did. Shall we get back to these? Yeah, sorry. It's not nearly enough tangents on this show. No, I agree.

We've got to mix it up with some stories. As is the way with 99% of wealthy heteros, Bob wasn't much to look at. But Doris? Hot stuff. She had shiny, silky hair that just, you know, you know the hair. Like, they just wear it down all the time, and it just... Beautiful. Damn them.

She had very nice skin. Stop describing my hair that way, Kristen. Rumor has it that she always washed her makeup off before she went to bed, because she wasn't an animal. People are very concerned about me and my eyes. They should be. They should be. You know, actually, they shouldn't be concerned.

Jealousy. Like, if you guys could see Brandy's skin, you'd be like, fuck you. You, like, fall asleep with your makeup on? Yeah, it's outrageous. It's outrageous. What, do they think your eyeballs are going to fall out? Oh, no, they're fine. They look like they're in there real good.

Real good. Got them real set back in there. Doris also had a rockin' bod because she did step classes every morning. You know, it was the 90s. Did you ever do step classes? Yeah. I loved step classes. morning. You know, it was the 90s, you know. Did you ever do step classes? Yeah! I loved step classes. Yes! Couldn't always keep up, but you know, I've never

been strong with choreo. She was often hired to be a model of the ideal body type at fashion seminars. Wow! Can you imagine? I can't imagine. No!

Fine, I'll do it. I'll show up and be the ideal body type. So Doris had, I think I read somewhere, she started out her career as a teacher. Then she went into pharmaceutical sales. Now she was a homemaker, as they said on this show. Do they say homemaker anymore or do they say stay-at-home mom? I don't know. I was like, what year is this? Anyway,

she was a stay-at-home mom to their 12-year-old twin girls. Twin-year-old 12 girls? Nicole and Alessandra and man. Oh, wow. Alessandra

and Nicole. Oh, wow. What? Alessandra and Nicole. Oh, come on. Alessandra and Nicole? Yeah, Alessandra is much fancier. But they went by Nikki. It's like they each. Hold on. They went by Nikki and Ally.

So does that. Yeah. All right. You know what? I know. Hold on. Am I making this up? I know Alessandra went by Allie.

I'm assuming Nicole went by Nikki because it just seems like a missed opportunity not to. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The twins went to private school. They had horseback riding lessons. And judging by their wispy bangs, they did not get their hair cut at Fantastic Sam's. their wispy bangs, they did not get their hair cut at Fantastic Sam's. Also, you should know that they were the type of 12-year-old girls who somehow didn't look awkward.

Bitches. Which you and I both know is a shame because being an awkward-looking pre-teen-built character makes you into the podcaster. That's exactly right. You've always wanted to be. But what about Bob? They say pretty girls aren't funny because they never had to be. Never had to develop a personality. Suck on that. So Bob brought in the money. Where did the money come from, you ask?

Don't worry about it. He owned land in Colorado, a beach house in Galveston. He owned a courier service. He owned a golf course. He owned a golf course. He owned a tennis club. And he invested in all kinds of rich guy shit like $15 court classics from Costco and sunglasses that are available on those twirly stands

and gas stations. Sorry, that last part was just about my dad. I was going to say, just describing your dad. The bottom line is Bob worked all the time. He worked 18-hour days at whatever it was he did all day. I was going to say, doing what? And you know what?

One time when they went to the beach with friends, Bob had two pagers clipped to the waistband of his swim trunks. You know, for whatever job needed to get a hold of him. First of all, that's the dorkiest thing i've ever heard unless you're a doctor even then why would you have two backup pager and do they have to be clipped to your swim trunks yes you know what else he did that i didn't write down you know he would swim at the country club. And he would set a pager at, you know, like up on the ledge. Yeah, at the end so he could swim and check it.

Every lap he would check it. Check it. Very important, Brandy. You couldn't possibly understand. I couldn't. You don't even have one pager. I have zero. I did have a pager.

No, you didn't. In the eighth grade I had a pager. Fuck yes. I don't remember this. No, you didn't. In the eighth grade, I had a pager. Fuck yes. I don't remember this. Oh, my gosh. Pagers were so cool. When we were in the eighth grade, I had a pager for like five minutes. Why only five minutes?

I mean, because they didn't like, you know, I didn't really have a need for a pager. I was going to say, I don't think I ever paged you. Yeah, you paged me. I probably paged you boobs or something. Yeah, probably.aged me. I probably paged you boobs or something. Yeah, probably. Hilarious. Comedy gold. So they had money.

They had stuff. But they didn't have a lot of love. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, it depends on who you ask. Okay. Sorry. Oh, God.

My cold. Oh, no. What do you need. Okay. Sorry. Oh, God. My cold. Oh, no. What do you need? Do you need a hot tea? I need a whole new head. Oh, yeah. Doris, in particular, was unsatisfied. She was bored.

And so she did what a lot of people did in 1997. She discovered something called the internet. Doris quickly found herself in an over 40 chat room. She went by the screen name Doritos. Oh no, don't spit. Don't spit. Oh no. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You took a huge drink right as I said it.

Doritos. D-O-O-R-I-T-O-Z. Doritos. I love it, Doris. And when people asked for a picture of her, she sent them one of her at a party standing next to Barbara Bush. Oh. Doris sounded like a bush around. Okay.

Okay. Well, it is the internet. That's right. She started talking to a guy from the Northeast, and he intrigued her. He was a married stockbroker, and what's this? He was unhappy in his marriage too. In the reenactment footage of this, which I found quite intriguing. You know, Doris is like a lady's clacking away on the old timey internet with a very full glass of Chardonnay next to her.

I mean, like almost comical. So Doris and this dude got to talking and talking and talking and soon they were in love. They met up at the Four Seasons in Austin. Excuse me. I know. I know. We can't relate to this woman in any way. I'm dying to stay at the Four Seasons. to stay at the Four Seasons.

Kyla and Jay stayed at the Four Seasons for their honeymoon because he's got like a relative. Yeah, I mean, obviously, that's the only way we stay at nice places. Of course, yes. I know who owns the roadway in. Anyway, they said it was quite amazing. I want to stay there.

So, you know, they stayed at the Four Seasons in Austin. They stayed at a spa in Arizona. Oh, my God. Can you believe it? Fuck. I know. The spa. I'm going to go to the spa.

I know. But I'm going. I know. Me too. I'm going. I'm going. I'm going. I'm beating you there.

I'm leaving right now in the middle of this. It was all so sexy. And it was insane in 1997. This was simply not done. Doris told her friends that she was like into this guy she'd met on the internet and she'd like met up with him in person and they were like, I'm sorry, how are you still alive? This is 1997. Everyone on the internet is trying to murder you in 1997. You remember when everyone was real? Yeah. Let's pause for a brief history lesson.

In the 90s, people on the internet would lie to you and say, oh, I'm in love with you. And then you'd meet up with them and they'd murder you. But these days, people on the internet are like, oh, I'm just really casual. I'm not looking for love. That's for sure. Just something chill, just a hookup. And then you meet up with them. And two seconds later, she's tricked you into moving in with her and giving you her seat.

That's just a cautionary tale that I heard from a man who helped me through a hangover at the Renaissance Festival. You asshole. It happened to him. It happened to him. He got trapped by a woman on the internet. He was trapped by a woman on the internet. It sounded really grim. It sounded terrifying. You know, I heard he's doing just fine.

You know, I don't know that I've seen him since. So Doris had this internet boyfriend, and Bob didn't know about that guy, but he did know that something was up. Lately, Doris had been drinking wine every night and spending so much time on the computer. wine every night and spending so much time on the computer. Did you hear that Gwyneth Paltrow really went off the deep end and like ate carbs and stuff every day in quarantine? Can you imagine? How terrible. Carbs every day.

How could you live with yourself? Might as well do math. Well, I started with whole wheat bread and now here I am. Shooting up. Bob tried to get her back with flowers and love letters. But finally, in February of 1997, Doris filed for divorce. Doris hired an excellent divorce attorney. And over the next few months, Bob and Doris began sort of untangling their lives from each other.

So I think they had a plan that they would like conscious uncoupling. This is all about Gwyneth, really. They had that candle that smells like a vagina. Does it smell like a vagina or her vagina specifically? I don't know. These are the things I'd like to know. Right? Yeah.

I feel like there's a wide range. Of vagina smells. Yes. I mean, that could go real. I don't. Well, I feel like it wouldn't be good. Yeah, I can't. I'm never just like dying to smell a vagina, Kristen.

Oh, what is that? Oh, that smells. Oh, is that? Oh, my. That's a nice vagina. Anyway. Disgusting. What was I saying?

Wish I could have that in a candle. You can get it in a lotion right now. Gross! Somehow that's so much worse than a candle. That's way worse! Why is it so much worse, I wonder? You know what? It's not enough

that my vagina smells like a vagina. I like my entire body to smell like that. I think there'd be something to that. You know, they talk about pheromones.

I mean, you'd walk by somebody and be like, that lady's all puss. You know, they talk about pheromones. I mean, you'd walk by somebody and be like, that lady's all puss. Something about her. She was asking for it.

People have something to talk about. The defense stands up. Well, she was wearing the vagina body lotion, and she paired it earlier with the body wash and the body scrub, so you tell me who's guilty. This is taking a weird turn. It has, and I'm kind of stalling because this next thing that I'm about to tell you is kind of weird in conjunction with all the vagina body lotion. I don't know that there's a real natural segue.

Okay. But anyway, so, you know, they head to the kids. Jesus. And they were trying to make this, you know, divorce as okay as it could be. So I think their plan was like, we'll wait until this semester's over. Then we'll, you know. Okay. But then came the evening of April 16th, 1997.

The twins had a softball game that night. And this was not regular softball, Brandy. This was competitive softball. Club softball. Their team name? The Scream. Ooh.ball. Their team name? The Scream. Ooh. What was your team name?

The Dodgers. Okay. Okay. You even say it with a serious look in your eyes. Yeah, the Dodgers was my competitive team. I was also on a rec team called the Cheetos. We wore orange jerseys. A little less intimidating than Cheetos. Hmm.

Where do you think would be a better place to open up our Subaru clit stand? The Cheetos game or the Dodgers game? I feel like competitive softball would be a little bit better for us. Yes, yes. Subaru clits at the competitive softball league for sure. Bob and the girls were already out at the softball place. The field? Field, yeah.

Softball place. Softball place. The complex. Because Bob was the girls' coach, and the game was going to start soon. So Doris showed up a few minutes early, and Bob told her, hey, could you run back to the

house? I left one of the girls softball bats back there. And she was like, yeah, no problem. She just got done with a workout class and she had kind of wanted to go home and get changed anyway. Maybe she just done some type. Why? Why are you bad? He's sending her back to the house. Oh, he's arranged for. OK. Something. To happen at the house. Oh. He's arranged for something to happen at the house. A surprise? No, a hitman. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Brandy, you're no stranger to true crime. All right. Here we go. So she headed back home, and it was a super short drive. But the softball game started, and Doris didn't come back. The game continued and Bob kept looking back in the stands and expecting to see Doris, but she wasn't there. Did he? Did he expect to see her? Finally, he was looking to make sure she didn't show up. The game ended and Doris still wasn't there and Bob was a little freaked out. Brandy,

he tried calling her but she didn't answer. The whole thing was weird. He hadn't missed a call from her. He hadn't missed a page. So he and the girls drove home and as soon as they pulled into the driveway, Bob knew that something was wrong. The back door was wide open. They really only had the back door open when they were letting the dog out, but the dog was like nowhere to be found. It was all very strange. And Bob got a bad feeling in his gut. His daughters were right there with him and he decided, you know what, I'm just going to call the police. So he called 911 and he told the dispatcher, I'm at my residence.

The back door is ajar. My wife, to my best knowledge, what? You're already making faces. That's a very precise language he's using there. You think that's just how he spoke? He was just a fancy guy? Um, maybe. Okay.

I mean, I think you have to consider he has his two 12-year-old daughters in the car. Mm-hmm. So he's trying not to, you don't want to sound overly panicked. Okay. He said, I'm getting no answer in the house. I have children with me in the car. What do I do?

By this point, it was pretty late. So the police arrived and an officer walked into the dark house. And as he walked, he heard a clanging, like he just kicked something metal across the tile floor. He took another step and heard more clanging. Finally, he realized that he just kicked two shell casings. They'd rolled in the direction of Doris Angleton's dead body. I mean, talk about not preserving the crime scene. Where's your flashlight, buddy?

Yeah, fair question. It was a gruesome scene. Doris had been shot 12 times. Oh, my gosh. Five times in the head. Yeah. So, you know, they start investigating this, and the whole thing seemed kind of strange. They didn't find any forced entry into the home.

Nothing appeared to be missing from the home. Someone had killed Doris, but why? Doris's friends all kind of had the same guess. Bob. It's always the husband. Or in this case, the soon-to-be ex-husband. So the police brought in Bob for questioning, but, I mean, he had an airtight alibi. He'd been coaching his daughter's softball game when his wife was murdered.

A ton of people had seen him there. He obviously hadn't left. He hadn't killed his wife. But Bob had a feeling that maybe through his connections or what he'd done, he was somehow responsible. So after he established his alibi, he looked at the investigators and said, you guys know what my real business is, don't you? And they were like, do what now? Turns out Bob was a bookie. And not just any bookie. Bob was a bookie.

And not just any bookie. He was the most successful bookie in all of Houston, possibly all of Texas. Wow. Yeah. So according to our boy Skip Hollinsworth, Bob handled, okay, so he said tens of millions of dollars a year in sports bets. One source I saw said $20 million. The other said $40 million. I mean, you get the idea.

Those are all tens of millions. Yes. I mean, I'm just trying to give you the range. Yeah. And it's a big. Yeah, that's a lot of money. It's a whole shit ton of money. And he made millions of dollars for himself, obviously.

What do you think about sports bets? I mean, they're legal in Vegas. Not legal in Kansas. Yeah, I know. I mean. they're legal in Vegas. Not legal in Kansas. Yeah, I know. I mean, yeah, I don't know. Don't bother me. It seems like a victimless crime. I don't know.

I guess. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't really get it. And see, Kansas kind of has like a tight butthole about. No, a lot of states have very tight buttholes. Yeah. But should we loosen them? That's my question.

That is a valid question. Because it does seem like quite a few people, I mean, granted, he did try to keep this all under wraps. But, I mean, they did tell some of their close friends. And I think their close friends were all like, yeah, who cares? You're not really hurting anybody. Yeah. So, anyway, he had all this money coming in. It was coming in illegally.

But how was he able to do it flying under the radar? Well, he wasn't under the radar, Brandy. In addition to being Houston's most successful bookie, what? The police were in his pocket. Bob was a police informant. Or as they say on the streets, a snitch. You know what they say.

Snitches get peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Because everybody likes PB&Js, including snitches. I like a PB&J. Me too. Sometimes I have them for breakfast. I enjoy them for breakfast.

Anyway. You know what I eat sometimes for lunch? What? An Uncrustable. Oh, okay. I do love Uncrustable. Even though I feel like I'm too old to be eating this. I'm definitely too old to be eating this.

But they are good. They are tasty. You know what I got the other day? What? One that missed the jelly. It was all PB, no J. They are tasty. You know what I got the other day? What? One that missed the jelly. It was all PB, no J. I wanted to write them a strongly worded letter. Instead, I just ate it.

And you're like, oh, man. Here's a question for you. Have you ever eaten one while it was still frozen? I've had one that I didn't wait quite long. Okay, me too, me too. Not proud of it? I can see that patience is not our strong suit. So as it turned out, Bob had been eating PB&Js and snitching on rival bookies for more than 10 years.

Wow. And because Bob was such a good little snitchy snitch, the police let him make millions as a bookie, and they just kind of, you know, whatever. Wow. This made him pretty unpopular with other bookies. Suddenly they were going to jail, they were getting in trouble, and Bob Ingleton, Mr. Big Shot, wasn't getting

in trouble. Mr. Big Shot, who do you think you are? Eating those PB&Js. I think that is the next line. So maybe one of Bob's many enemies had been responsible for Doris' murder. Maybe someone who owed

him a bunch of money was like, who knows? Or maybe Bob had arranged a hit. Perhaps. We can't rule anything out, including the thing we're pretty sure happened. Or maybe,

hold on, wait a minute, was it Doris's boyfriend? Yes. Remember, it's 1997. Everyone on the internet is trying to kill you.

As opposed to now, where everyone's trying to get you to move in with them and give them your seed. Don't say seed. Ew. My baby you're talking about. I thought give them your seed was the grossest thing. She's a beautiful, precious angel. She is. And it all started with you trapping that poor man.

These are just his words. Yeah, I'm sure. That he said to me. More like whispered to me. Help me. He slipped me a note. I'm being held against my will. We met on Tinder. She said it was just cash, but

it's not cash. By this point, investigators had taken Doris' computer and they got on it and discovered that up until the day of her murder, she and her boyfriend had been in constant communication. But after her murder, he had just stopped reaching out. He didn't pop up in any of the usual chat rooms. Mm-hmm. Oh, shit.

That seemed sus. Picious. But then one day, he did message Doris. And one of the police officers, pulling an old-timey-to-catch-a-predator, I don't know who. Post as Doris. It's like, hey, hot stuff, where you been? I'm at the Four Seasons right now. Yeah.

Okay. Bring some lasagna and condoms. Lasagna? They always come with something and condoms? Not lasagna and condoms. Lasagna? They always come with something and condoms. Not lasagna. Usually it's like Mike's Heart Lemonade and condoms. Lasagna. I think you just revealed your fantasy.

I swear on one of them I showed up with fettuccine Alfredo. Okay, fettuccine Alfredo, I believe. Lasagna. What's wrong with lasagna? Lasagna kicks fettuccine Alfredo's I believe. Lasagna. What's wrong with lasagna? Lasagna kicks fettuccine Alfredo's ass. That's what I'm saying. These losers were showing up. These gross little pedophiles.

They're not going to the trouble of making lasagna. I don't think they made the lasagna. I don't think they're buying the lasagna. It's a Stouffer's. It's still in the box frozen because he's going to throw that in the oven. No. Stop. Stop. Stop.

Too far. Anyway. So they're like, aha, sweet. We got him now. They talked and talked and they went out to New Jersey to interview the shit out of him. But when they interviewed the shit out of him, they realized that he for sure hadn't murdered doris and that was a real bummer because it was 1997 and how the hell had the murderer not been the guy from the internet yes didn't make sense investigators were spinning their wheels at least all these shows make it seem that way but from what i've gathered it seems like bob pretty early on

mentioned another suspect and he was like you know it might be him in fact really probably is him you know bob should remember what when you point your finger at someone there's three more pointing right back at you. Mm-hmm. You should have been there in that interrogation room, Brandy. That's right. Because he said, it's my brother, Roger. So let's talk about Roger.

Oh, a little plot twist for you. It is a plot twist. A little plot twist, a little surprised is a plot twist. A little surprise. Roger was six years older than Bob, and they'd always had a competitive, kind of tumultuous relationship. But it had gotten worse over the years. So I read a little bit about these two brothers. I don't think Roger seems like some giant screw up, but kind of the way he was painted is like, you know, Roger was, you know, a mess. Yeah, yeah. And Bob had it all together, had all the money. Yeah. You ask me, they both kind of seem like a mess, but you know, whatever. Okay. So as adults,

Bob offered Roger a job at his bookie business, and Roger accepted. He moved from San Diego to Houston for the job. He uprooted his whole life for this. But after like a year and a half, it seemed like maybe, how do you say this in HR terms? Roger wasn't a good fit. Wasn't cut out for the job. And so Bob fired his brother. Oh, no. Yeah.

Roger didn't take it real well. I'm sorry, do I have, like, snot? No. Okay. I'm just listening to you tell the story. I'm so self-conscious. I just feel like I'm just a congested, disgusting... Do you think I would let you just have snot hanging out of your nose and not say anything? I think you would be very uncomfortable

for a very long time before you finally were like, um, yeah. So I was just trying to catch it right from the jump. No, there was no snot that needed to be caught. Catched. Hey, when we talk about snot on our podcast, please use proper grammar.

Okay? We don't want to gross people out with improper grammar. There's nothing grosser than improper grammar. I don't know. Maybe vagina body lotion is grosser. Who talks about that on their podcast? I don't know. That seems like a rough one.

I'd skip it, personally. So, in Roger's eyes, he'd been royally screwed over and ripped off by his brother. He felt he'd been a real asset to the company. He'd helped build the company, Brandy. He'd moved his whole life to Texas to help with the business. You know what? If he was going to be fired, he would not go quietly. He was entitled to 15% of that company.

Of the whole company? Mm-hmm. He'd worked there for a year and a half. Maybe he'd done a bang-up job, huh? No! 15% of the fucking company? Wow. You sound like Bob. I mean,

that is rich. I've worked you for a year and a half and now I'm owed 15% of the fucking company? I wish everyone could see your face. You would think this was your bookie business.

You know, sometimes I'm as surprised as everyone else about the things that fire me up. It is real hit and miss, isn't it? Sure is. I mean, of all the bullshit we talk about, this is too much. It's ridiculous. He didn't start the company. He worked there for a year and a half. Well, I mean, maybe he was pretty influential.

Maybe he's just like really doing shit. I don't know. I don't think so. Wow. I guess haters are everywhere, Roger. So that's what he asked for. He was like, you owe me money, pay up. And Bob, a little like you, was like, ha, ha, ha, no. And because families are complicated, Roger later became a real estate broker.

And even though there was still all this beef between them, Bob used Roger for his services. One day, they were about to close on a commercial property. So they met up in a parking lot, and Roger got into Bob's car, and he saw that Bob had a briefcase filled with cash for the closing, like $200,000 or something. And that's when Roger pulled a stun gun on Bob. He held it to his brother's head, which I don't think you're supposed to put a stun gun to somebody. Anyway, I'm no expert. And, you know, Bob fought back.

He elbowed Roger in the face. And Roger was like, oh, my nose. And then he grabbed the briefcase and he ran. But when Roger got the briefcase open, he discovered that it didn't have any money inside. I think there were, like, multiple briefcases. discovered that it didn't have any money inside. I think there were like multiple briefcases. Why would he have a briefcase with $200,000 cash for a business closing?

Brandy, I don't know if you picked up the vibe. These are kind of sketchy dudes. I did actually fail to take that into consideration. You're like, I've not once held $200,000 cash in my hands. Typically, when you're talking about purchasing a property, not a lot of cash changes hands. Miranda, you're running in the wrong circles. It's obvious. Do you have a circle drive? No.

Nope. Maybe if you had a circle drive, you would know that it's very common to walk around with just briefcases aplenty, with just hundreds of thousands of dollars swinging in the wind. All of a sudden, stun guns are pressed to get shred. By the way, one source said a gun. Another source said stun gun. Who's to say? Yeah.

Well, Bob says. Okay, anyway. So, you know, Roger's more angry than ever now. He tried new tactics. He pretended to be an IRS agent, and he called some of Bob's top clients, and he was like, hey, I'm from the IRS, and I want to talk to you about Bob Angleton. You know, trying to kind of freak them out about using the bookie services. OK. Roger called Doris and said he had information that would throw her husband in jail.

At some point in all of this, and I think this was kind of early on. Bob got kind of freaked out. He's like this this, you know, my brother's being a loose cannon about this. So he's like, okay, how about this? I'm going to give you 12 grand and I'm going to give you monthly payments of 2,500 bucks for like, you know, two or three years, whatever. They had a date in sight and I'm going to send it to a PO box in San Diego. There you go. Goodbye. a P.O. box in San Diego. There you go. Goodbye.

So Roger moved back to California. Several years passed. Now Roger wanted more money. So in January of 1997, Roger wrote Bob a letter. The letter read in part, If you don't give me $200,000 cash, I promise that I will hurt you in a way that will be with you for the rest of your life.

I have nothing to lose. I will give you till March 20th. If I don't hear from you, I am coming there and will hurt you. I will not meet you alone, so don't think of any tricks. meet you alone, so don't think of any tricks. Again, my address is 1765 Garnet Avenue, number 44, San Diego, California. Did you look that up? I looked it up. It seems like

whatever was there was torn down, which was a big bummer. Because you know, when I read these addresses, what I always want to happen is someone is listening, and they're like, Screech! What? That's where I live! That's my dream for it to be my address sometime.

Just move into that creepy lady's house in Prairie Village. You weirdo. I would love to. I know you would. I would love to. It would be the honor

of your life. What? You'd come up to neighbors do you know what happened at my house? Oh my gosh a murderer lived in my house? And they're like, oh, okay. Yes, I'm not happy about it at all.

I'm not strange in any way. I made brownies. You want some brownies? So Roger had given Bob a deadline to give him all the cash, but Bob hadn't complied. And a month later, his wife had been murdered in their home. So Bob told police, I think my brother did this. So investigators started looking into Roger. And well, shit, what do you know? Turns out Roger, a genius,

had been in Houston at the time of Doris' murder. Oh my gosh! And he'd left a paper trail. They found a receipt from the Hyatt and for the roadway in, so maybe the budget got tighter as the trip went on. Who am I to judge? So the cops headed out to San Diego.

Did they go themselves? Did they have some buddies in San Diego do the job? These are the questions we'll never have answers to because I didn't bother looking it up. The important thing is someone went searching for Roger. Yeah. Couldn't find him. Instead, they found his brand spanking new wife. find him. Instead, they found his brand spanking new wife. And in this episode of Dead Wives Club,

the photo they used of this woman was from her driver's license. She looked fine, but I was like, oh, that is dirty. That is not nice, not okay. And she's like, yeah, sorry, I have no idea where my new husband is. Turns out Roger was on the run. Because he'd murdered Doris? Certainly seemed that way. It wasn't a hitman at all? Seemed like revenge.

Is Roger a red herring? Or, or, what? It was really the internet guy the whole time. Roger the hit man. Hmm. Bob did hire a hit man,

his own brother. Keeping it in the family. That's right. Mm-hmm. Let's find out, shall we? So they're looking and looking and looking. Couldn't find him anywhere. It seemed like he truly just disappeared. But then, two months after Doris' murder,

Roger made a critical mistake. He tried to check into a hotel in Las Vegas under the name Richard N. Balls. Or something like that. Oh, no! How dare you! How dare you! He definitely used an alias, and we can't rule out that he used Richard N. Balls. So we have to assume that he used it.

That it was Richard N. Balls. Okay. Fine. Shout out to the person in our Discord who is choosing the username Richard N. Balls. You are a real inspiration. And the clerk said, okay, Mr. Balls, I'll just need some identification. And Mr. Richard N. Balls said, please call me Dick. And he pulled out his driver's license and he handed it to her.

And she looked at it. And, I mean, it must have been some kind of jacked up. Maybe the lamination was peeling or whatever. So she looked at it. And I tell you what, this lady was slick because she managed to lift it up a little bit and see that the top was a fake ID, and underneath it was another ID,

and it was for a Mr. Roger Angleton. There was no dick and balls. So she's like, excuse me, won't you? And she got him a room and she called the police and was like, get over here quick. Some weirdo just tried to use a fake ID. So the Las Vegas police ran a background check and they were like, holy shit!

Do you know what this guy was doing on April 16th, 1997? He missed a court date in San Diego. That's right. Okay. The Fiend. Uh-huh.

It was for someone. Yeah, so they don't even know the other stuff. No, they know that he's, yeah, as a warrant because he failed to appear. Right. So they're like, all right, let's get him. Luckily, the tv show cops happen to be riding along with the las vegas police are you serious i yes yes so they showed up at this hotel you know they're filming the whole thing they pounded on roger's

door weapons drawn roger answered the door looking like a middle-class dad on a wednesday he had on ill-fitting khakis and a blue button down which i've watched cops that's not the normal attire you see a lot of shirtless dudes on cops a whole bunch of shirtless you see a lot of gym shorts that are riding dangerously low. Yes. You ever seen where they have to, like, blur the top of the gym shorts? Yep. That's not good. Mm-hmm. You know, the police thought they were there for this little missing court date thing,

but they looked around the room and they saw some weird shit. They found a miniature drill, a wig, bundles of cash, a turkey baster. They were like, what the fuck? Okay. Yes. What the hell is with the turkey baster? Yeah. Spoiler alert.

We will never know. And I am so angry about that. Why'd you even tell us about it then? I had to tell you about it. Because, I mean, the policewoman looked just as intrigued as we are. She picked it up, and obviously with gloves on, she's like, I don't even want to know. Because honestly, even if you see a turkey baster and it's next to a turkey, it still seems weird. Imagine seeing one with, like, no context. Yeah. if you see a turkey baster and it's next to a turkey it still seems weird yeah imagine seeing

one with like no context yeah no nary a turkey to be found so they were like man don't judge a book by its cover this is much weirder than we initially expected so they arrested him you know because of the court date thing and meanwhile the police in in Houston were still wondering where the hell Roger was. And they were super skeptical of his new wife. They were like, she says she doesn't know where he is, but she has to know. How could you lose all contact with a guy who owns a drill and a turkey baster? So they got a hold of her phone records. And lo and behold, they discovered that she'd been making calls to a Las Vegas jail.

And that's how they found the location of their murder suspect. And man, it seemed like they'd found their guy. In Roger's stuff in Las Vegas, they found the softball schedule for his nieces. They found the code to undo the Angleton's home alarm. They found a piece of paper filled with disturbing notes. One read, let dog out, wait in kitchen. Subject comes home, hit immediately. So he was hired as a hitman.

You ready for this? Yeah. Then they found a contract. It was a murder for hire contract. Yeah. It essentially said that if Roger committed the murder, he'd received 100k every year for 10 years. They also discovered a tape recording. Very good, Brandy. Very good, Brandy. They discovered a tape recording, and on it, two men have a detailed discussion about the murder. One man gives the other man instructions on how to disarm the alarm.

One of the men's voices was definitely Roger's. The other's was Bob's. Sure sounded like it. Mm-hmm. And Bob was looking sketchier by the minute. Yeah. The tape recording seemed to be of him. In it, he told Roger about how to break into my house.

Yeah. Yeah, it's... Lock him up. Lock him up. Plus, Roger had all this cash with bands around it, and they tested those bands for fingerprints, and they discovered Bob's prints on them. Clearly, Bob had hired Roger to murder his soon-to-be ex-wife. Both brothers were charged. And boy, it did not look good for either of them.

The evidence against them was pretty damn strong, and Texas is not stingy with the death penalty. They'll give you a heaping helping of it. But then, in a pretrial hearing, a judge reviewed the footage of the search that the police had done on all of Roger's stuff in Las Vegas, and the judge was like, yeah, that's an illegal search. Thanks for capturing it all, cops. So none of that stuff could be used at Roger's trial. Okay, everyone, just to fill you in, Brandy has leaned all the way back in her seat. Her mouth is ajar, or ajar as they say in France.

Oh my gosh! Yeah, talking about screwing the pooch. Yeah! No offense, Dottie. She's right there. She's so cute. She is so cute. So I'm guessing at this point the prosecution just shit themselves.

I mean, that's what I do, right? That seems like the wise move. Yeah. Just let loose on your trousers. So, now, I don't really fully understand this, but that's because I didn't go to all the semesters of law school. They could still use this on Bob, just not on Roger. Yeah, that makes sense. You think so?

Yeah. Yeah, I guess it does make sense. But, you know, that was kind of everything they had against Roger. Yeah. And now it was gone. So they were like, OK, Roger, talk to us. And Roger was like, nope. No, thank you.

No. Busy now. Finally, they were like, I mean, they realized they were boned. They were like, if you agree to testify at your brother's trial, we will give you immunity. Holy shit. So he took the fucking deal. And Roger said, no thank you.

He was not interested in talking. Because he knew they didn't have enough to get him and then he was still going to get the money by not double crossing his brother. So I think he thought they don't have enough to get me. Yeah.

And they probably don't have enough to get my brother. Yeah. So if I just shut up. Yeah. I'll get the money. Yep. My brother will walk. Yeah.

And we're all good. Holy shit. So he didn't want to talk, at least not to them. Instead, he wanted to talk to a journalist. He agreed to 50 hours worth of recorded interviews with a journalist on the condition that she keep everything a secret until after his brother's trial. Wow. Roger had a vision that his brother would be acquitted and then this interview would come out and it wouldn't matter that he

said exactly what had happened but then came February 7th 1998 it was five months before Bob's trial and his his brother, Roger, died by suicide in prison. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So this story is wild. In the jail cell where Roger's body lay, police found a legal pad. Roger had used it to write this bombshell confession. In that letter, he claimed total responsibility for Doris's murder.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. He wrote, Robert owed me money, but I realized that I was wrong to take a life of especially an innocent and good person. I am in constant emotional agony and so decided to end my life to stop the pain. constant emotional agony, and so decided to end my life to stop the pain. Although I began an elaborate plan to frame Robert for Doris's death as further leverage to get my money, he is innocent. Do you think that's true?

Do you think that's true? No. Yeah, I don't think it is either. No. I think it's very possible that, yeah, he was dealing with crazy emotional. Emotional turmoil. Emotional. The emotions are getting the best of us all.

You know, 2020 was an emotional year. And 2021 is just as an emotional. Yeah, I don't believe that Bob wasn't in on it. Yeah, I kind of don't either. I mean, that just seems so far-fetched. So people were like, whoa, oh my gosh. Could this be true? But for the purposes of Bob's trial, I guess it didn't really matter

because the letter was deemed inadmissible as evidence. So the case kept moving forward and the prosecution developed a theory. They learned that Doris had known quite a bit about the illegal business dealings and that her divorce attorney had been encouraging her to use that as leverage against Bob in the divorce. That's a pretty good theory.

Yeah, it's not bad. Yeah. So they said that basically when they were negotiating the divorce, Bob was like, sure, you can have half of everything. And, you know, that'll be I think he one source said he tried to say that they had like one point five million. Another source said three million. Anyway, you get the idea yeah um and she's like no we have way more than that so maybe the irs would

be interested to know what you've been up to so the prosecution figured bob had maybe caught wind of this and he decided to have Doris killed to save himself. So in late July of 1998, Bob Angleton's trial began. The case was not strong. Yeah. So basically the prosecution. It's a theory, but. Yeah.

Can you prove it? Let's find out so the prosecution's whole case was that the only person with a motive to kill doris was bob which yeah probably yeah the whole case really came down to that tape recording that roger made could the prosecution convince the jury that it was bob talking to roger on that recording i mean in way, it shouldn't have been too hard. The man on the recording referred to the Angleton house as my house and gave detailed instructions. Anybody could have said that. True.

True. If it was an elaborate frame-up job. Exactly. Exactly. Brandy, for the defense. The man also gave detailed instructions on how all the motion detectors worked in the house at one point in the conversation about having doris killed the two men went back and forth about her engagement ring roger said something like yeah i'll cut off her finger to

get the ring and the mystery man was like no don't i don't like that and roger kind of pushed back and said well you said you wanted the diamond and the guy was like i don't want you cutting off fingers so was the mystery man bob maybe someone pretending to be bob did they get a voice expert in there they did okay so this is just, this is, this is so bizarre. Okay, I'm just going to say it. So prosecution called an audio expert who said that in his opinion it wasn't. Shut up the prosecutor. What?

Yeah. Why'd they call the expert? Okay, so I saw that. I rewound it. I was like, no, this show has made an error. There's no way the prosecution called their own witness. And, like, the B-roll showed it was from, like, some footage from a deposition. So I'm like, okay, they knew what this guy was going to say.

Well, I saw something else that explained it. And basically, you know, they had these voice experts come in. The voice experts were like, don't think it's Bob. But the prosecution was like, OK, our case is totally fucked without this tape. We have to introduce this tape into evidence and just let the jury decide. So that's what they did. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. They felt like they had no choice. And I don't think they did have a choice. I think you've got to introduce the tape.

Don't you? Do you call an expert an audio expert? Don't you hope the defense just doesn't? Why would you call your own audio expert and be like well I don't I think you've got to call somebody right Ghostbusters or like

sorry that was the cheesiest joke guys let's just pretend they didn't say that let's all erase that from our memory you can't forget about the body lotion vagina stuff though that's going to stay in our memory. You can't forget about the body lotion vagina stuff, though. That's going to stay in your memory. Seared in there.

So toward the end of the trial, the Angleton twins took the stand and testified that the man on the tape was not their father. Oh, shit. Yeah. So witnesses said that nearly everyone in the courtroom cried during the girl's testimony. I mean, it just sounds terrible. The defense argued that the recording was not a tape of Roger and Bob talking, but a recording of Roger and a hitman that he had hired talking about murdering Doris. Which I think is kind of a weird approach. I mean, why not just say it's someone pretending to be Bob?

Yeah. Maybe they did, and, like, this was just a snippet of their defense. But anyway, ultimately, after eight days of testimony, the jury went into deliberation for four days. Oh, my gosh. And they found him not guilty. Not guilty. So,

but people were stunned by the verdict. They were so angry. No, the case was terrible. People don't know the case was terrible, you know? And come on.

Okay, do you think he did it? Yes. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. See, that's why people are stunned. Yes, I think he did it.

But the prosecution couldn't prove it. No. Mm-mm. Also, turns out that tape, like, the audio was terrible. It's just, like, garbled. Like, I've never once heard my dad talk like that. Yeah.

So, you know, people are all angry. But what can you do? He'd been found not guilty. And we all saw the classic 1999 Ashley Judd film, Double Jeopardy, so we know he can't be retried. I loved that movie. That's why we know it. That's why we know. Not because we're, you know, up on the laws of our nation.

We are up on the laws of our nation thanks to the Ashley Judd film featuring Tommy Lee Jones. Okay, but there was a teensy weensy little loophole. Bob had been tried in state court. Could he face federal charges? Okay. Could he? You have to explain. So federal prosecutors looked into that case. Immediately my brain was like,

no, because he never crossed state lines or, you know. Except if he reached out to his brother in San Diego. Oh, look who just caught up! So federal prosecutors

who were going at brandy speed were like, no, we can't, but wait a minute. The murder took place in Texas, but we think he hired the killer across state lines in California. Across many state lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hop, skip, and jump. That makes this federal crime. And then they were like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hop, skip, and jump. That makes this

federal crime. Uh-huh, uh-huh. So that's when... And then they were like, oh, wait, shit, we have no better case to present than the state prosecutors

just did. Hey, they're very confident at the FBI. Did the mayor call them? Damn it! You just stepped on my joke! Yes!

Dang it! I'm sorry. Pretend. Yes. Dang it. I'm sorry. Pretend I didn't say it. No. No. That's okay. Yes. Obviously, the manners got involved.

So the FBI went after Bob Engleton for murder for hire, conspiracy, tax evasion, you know, just throwing the book at him. Yeah, whatever they got. So Bob's federal trial was about to begin. Oh, sweet justice, it was just around the corner. But four days before the trial, Bob disappeared. He went to Mexico. Amsterdam.

Amsterdam! Amsterdam! I'm sorry. I've never seen you more surprised. The fuck's he doing in Amsterdam? Just hanging out in the red light district? Roxanne! I imagine he was trying to get to Greece.

Because he had family in Greece. By way of Amsterdam, sure. I mean, whatever. I feel like when you're on the run, you take whatever route you can get. Yeah, that's probably true. I've never been on the lam before, as they say. So who are you to judge? So he was trying to enter the Netherlands with a bunch of money and a bunch of passports,

looking like a total sketch weasel. No word on whether he had a turkey baster. So the U.S. reached out to the Netherlands and they were like, hey, that's our douchebag. We call dibs fair and square. And the Netherlands were like finders keepers. So that kicked off a big old extradition process. And in order to get Bob back, the U.S. had to be like, you guys, we're totally not going to seek the death penalty. Yeah, we're totally nice guys over here. It's so funny

how some of these articles word it because it's like, well, because of Europe's policies about not just murdering people. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, it's such a bummer. They're so weird over there. No, one of the big things was also the Netherlands was like, hey, you charged him with his wife's murder.

You found him not guilty. You done. Yeah. And so they were like, no, no, no, no, no. We will get him for something else. We swear. And the Netherlands was like, OK. So they catapulted Bob back to the U.S. And so federal prosecutors focused on Bob's financial crimes.

They went through a bunch of Bob's safety deposit boxes in the Houston area and found like $4 million. Just like chilling. They felt like that was the tip of the iceberg, as they say. And we learned all about icebergs at the Titanic Museum in Branson, Missouri. That's exactly right. They'd found that money pretty easily. Where was the rest of it? For that matter,

how much was there? They didn't know, but they knew they could charge him with money laundering, tax evasion, and passport fraud. And Bob was like, yikes, yada y yada, yada. He pled guilty, got 12 years, served seven. Then he was out, free as a bird.

A bird that probably got away with murder. But here's the thing. In with that extradition agreement from the Netherlands was this deal that the U.S. would have to agree to wait 30 days after Bob served his time for tax evasion and passport fraud before they charged him with murder. Or murder for hire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Conspiracy. Yeah.

Yeah, we get it. Yeah. OK. So, you know, he's not going to get away with anything. So with Bob out, they started building their federal case against him. This is where the timeline gets a little messy because of conflicting sources. So I'm just going to lay this out for you. You know.

This is kind of how it is. It's probably about how it happened. Just squint a little. And you got it. Yeah. So for this case, prosecutors really hoped to use the 50 hours of recorded interview footage that reporter Vanessa Leggett had done with Roger. These interviews were incredibly detailed. She talked to like everyone involved in the case. She had a bunch of confidential sources. She had all these notes. She had all these recordings. She had everything. She was going to write a book

about this. In those tapes, Roger described murdering Doris and lying in wait for her and said that he and his brother had worked out a sign for him to leave him to show that the job had been done. The sign would be that he would leave the back door open. That way, Bob would know to call the police. Roger said they'd planned all along that the crime would eventually point back to him. That was fine. He'd be long gone by the time the police came looking for him. He'd never anticipated that the hotel clerk in Las Vegas would discover his true identity. Roger also told the reporter that he'd secretly recorded his conversation with Bob because, you know, maybe he didn't fully trust his brother. Maybe he had a plan to get more money out of him down the line.

Like, oh, look at this. I've got this recording. But here's the thing. Vanessa, the journalist, wasn't just going to fork over all this information. So they subpoenaed her. And I think she gave them some stuff. But, you know, a lot of the stuff, like the identity of her confidential sources, she was like, no. I'm a journalist. I'm not giving that up.

So Vanessa was found in contempt of court and sent to prison. Shut up. Yeah, so I didn't write all this part down because this is getting so long and so detailed. But basically in court, they were like, you've barely been published anywhere. You're not even a real journalist, which, ouch, okay. All right. But I would like to know more about her. Below the belt. Yeah.

But, yeah, and she stood strong. The deal was they'd keep her in prison basically until she broke or until the grand jury was no longer in session. And she didn't break. They kept her in prison for like six months. Oh, my God. And finally let her go and said, okay, we're going to move forward with this case without all your information. But, P.S., we hate you. But P.S., we hate you.

And it turned out that none of this really mattered because according to this episode of the Dead Wives Club, Bob fled again. And to this day, it has not been found. Shut up! Okay, so this is just, it just blows my mind because I tried to find more on this. And I'm sure there's stuff that I've missed, but I'm just like, he's just gone? Is this not wild? Yes! So, um, maybe grease?

Yeah. Yeah, his daughters seem to be doing well. Part of me is like, was this a really old episode? Has he been found now? This is just so weird to me another part of me is like surely they know where he is and they just don't have enough yeah they just don't have enough on him yeah they have nothing more yeah they have the first trial they couldn't convict him with it then why could how could they convict him now yeah yeah he probably did it but good luck proving it. Yeah.

It's just not going to happen. Yeah. Is that not wild? That is wild. Yeah, I'd never heard this story before. Bob's just out there living it up in Mykonos. Maybe. Eating all the yogurt he wants.

I was picturing him eating olives. Yeah. Fair. No, I know you don't. Never mind. I don't what? Oh, okay. I was going to ask you, do you ever do, I think this is delicious, plain Greek yogurt

with honey? Oh, no, but I eat that. I like Greek yogurt. Do you? Okay. Yeah. I don't like it in fettuccine Alfredo or tomato soup. No one does. I discovered that the hard way.

Turns out there's a limit to cutting calories. Okay, but in a pinch, Greek yogurt instead of sour cream. I don't like sour cream, so I'd never fucking do that. Listen, maybe I'm talking to more than just you right now. Okay. Maybe there are people listening to this, and they're like, oh my gosh, Kristen, what a hot tip. Yeah. Oh, you look so hot, too.

That's what they're saying. Mm-hmm. I know they are. Yeah. That was a wild ride. I know. Yeah. Oh, God. I know. Yeah. Oh, my God.

What? Oh, my God. What? My watch just scared the shit out of me. What did it do? My doorbell just went off. And, like, when my doorbell goes off, like, when the doorbell camera goes off, like, a little pop of, like, what it sees shows up. There's an Amazon guy at my door right now and his face is

like this close to the camera oh yes that's frightening i looked at it because i thought it was gonna be david because like this is about what he gets has david changed he's dressed in an amazon uniform and he's putting his face real close to my camera. Sexy. Okay. You know what I think we ought to do now? Oh, should we take some questions from the Discord? Yes, we should.

Oh. Okay, this is not a question, but this is a weird-ass fucking coincidence. Okay, what is not a question, but this is a weird-ass fucking coincidence. Okay, what is it? Okay. On the last episode, we had a sponsorship of Audible, and we talked about the audiobooks that we have listened to, and yours was narrated by the Meryl Streep. Yeah. Unrelated to that, I shared a case where a man very creepily made all of his girlfriends read the book Slave Girl of Gore. Someone has now screenshot in the Discord that they went to check out Audible following our recommendations. Feather Thief is their name.

And Meryl Streep narrates Slave Girl of Gore on Audible. No. Is this for fucking real? Well, now I'm starting to think that might be a pretty legit book. Check that out. Oh, my gosh. That's weird. That's weird as fuck.

My mind is blown right now. I can't even concentrate. I listen for the stories wants to know, do you have any funny encounters with MLM huns? Okay, I think this is really weird because I was just telling you my new thing on YouTube is watching videos of women who were in MLMs and have now gotten out of them. Yeah. And they're just telling the stories, the tactics that were used. That sounds so interesting to me. I'm going to have to do that.

MLMs piss me off so much. Yeah. They make me so angry. It makes me wonder. So did you ever listen to, I think it was the first season of the podcast, The Dream? The Dream. Yeah. It was really good.

It was all about MLMs. And I've you know, obviously, there are lots of reasons to not like MLMs like they go after vulnerable people. Specifically vulnerable women typically. Yeah. And like so military spouses are a big one because, you know, they move around so much and poor people in general, like just they go after people. They promise. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that gets me so much and it makes me more mad now that we've started this podcast is I feel like what that has done to so many women and so many people who get caught up in those things is it robs them of their optimism.

And specifically their optimism about, hey, can I try this new business? Can I start a bit? Yeah. Do I have the ability to start this, to take this idea? Yes. Yeah. And, you know, you and I started this thing. No one was asking us to start a podcast.

Absolutely not. And so a lot of it, like we just worked for a long time just driven by like, hey, hopefully it'll work. And just like optimism and the fact that we were having fun. Yeah. And I have honestly wondered if either of us had ever gotten sucked into an MLM. Yeah. Would we have been really hesitant to jump into something like this, feeling like, you know what, put myself out there before, I got burned,

I don't want to do that again? Yeah, I think that's very possible. Yeah, MLMs piss me off. Have you ever been targeted by an MLM? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Me too.

It would be no surprise to you that I've been targeted multiple times for the Beachbody program. Haven't we all? Hey girl. Hey girl. Ooh. LGTC fangirl says Brandy after hearing how scared Kristen was

watching Hereditary we had to watch. Any other super scary movie recommendations? So we just watched one that I thought was pretty good, and it's, like, on Hulu. It's called The Lodge. Mm-hmm. And it's about, like, this young woman who is dating a guy who has two kids, and it's kind of getting serious. And so they're going to go spend, like like the holidays at the family's vacation home.

It's kind of like secluded. Right. You know, somewhere in, you know, a forest area. Yeah. But he gets called away. And so she's just like stuck there with his two kids who fucking hate her. And then things start to get a little weird okay i am very intrigued it's very good but it's it would it be too scary i don't think it would be because it's not like a it's not it's

more of like a psychological thriller it's not like a super jump scare okay yeah because you know my jump yeah yeah okay oh cat attack wants to know kristin do you have any good interviewing tips i'm conducting interviews for my dissertation and I struggle with good interview skills. Okay, here we go. Number one tip that people always give you is to write out all your questions. And obviously that's, you know, perfectly fine advice. You shouldn't go in with nothing. But I think the mistake people sometimes make is they read the question and then they don't even listen to the answer the person gives because they're so focused on it.

And my next question is blah, blah, blah. So focus in on what the person is saying. And the best question you can ever ask someone is, what do you mean by that? That's especially good if people are being like super diplomatic with something. And they've kind of practiced what they want to say, when you ask them, what do you mean by that? Then they have to get a little more real with you. Oh, old peep. Ask Brandy.

Were you scared of meeting people on Tinder being so into true crime? It's hard to know who to trust. Yes, but I did my I did like crazy see stalker level research before I ever agreed to meet. Stop saying that. Before I ever agreed to meet David. I knew everything about him before. And then I admitted to him that I did that. I didn't keep that a secret.

Well, yeah. I mean, by the time you got the guy chained up in your basement, you could tell him. I did make David promise not to murder me the first time we met. Well, that's like, you know, that's a foolproof technique right there. What, is he going to lie? Right. Exactly. No, because I put right there on my Tinder profile, liars need not apply.

Well, there you go. Yeah. See? See? Genius. Foolproof plan. And he pulls out that gun and you were like, what? What, are you a go. Yeah. See? See? Genius. Foolproof plan. And he pulls out that gun and you were like, what? What?

Are you a liar? Yeah. So you're a liar and a murderer? He's like, oh, no. No. Not a liar. Nope. Is this a thing?

What? No icing in the Oreo says, have either of you been to the overnight tour of the Missouri State Penitentiary? Ew. The ghost hunting tour? What? I'd pee my pants. I got tickets for November and it's 830 to 6 a.m.

If you haven't done it, it's something you would do. Thoughts on ghosts? I would totally do that. You wouldn't do it? I would do it with you. Yeah! It'd be kind of funny because, oh, I just kicked Dottie in the head. Sorry, girl.

It'd be kind of funny because we've spent so many slumber parties together. Now, as 30-something-year-old ladies, Brandy's 38 and I'm 32. That's not accurate at all. Oh, I feel like this is a good question. So we can make our little announcement. Oh, okay, okay. Temple of Hymen wants to know, do either of you have trips planned now that you are both vaxxed? Okay.

Okay. Let's tell them. Let's tell them. How are they going to handle it? I think they're going to be excited for us. Okay. You girls are taking a vacay. Yes.

We have had a crazy, I mean, year and a half now. Yeah, it's been terrible. I'm sorry. No, no. I mean, just like going through quarantine and everything. And we've actually been doing this podcast now for three years. More than three years with no breaks. We are taking a little a little vacay in the month of June.

Yeah. So this was something we've been talking about for a long, long time. Yeah. Because in part of it, it's funny because. The big motivation initially was like we didn't want to get burnt out. Yeah. Because, you know, we we all watch TV shows. Exactly.

But we love doing this and we want to keep loving doing it. Yeah. Because we all consume content and there gets to a point where you're like, uh-oh, do they not love doing it anymore? And that would be my biggest fear is that, you know, it sounded like we were phoning it in. So we're taking the month of June off. Yes. And like the timing could not be better because. I'm sick of you.

No. David and I are moving. And then it's London's birthday. And your birthday. And my birthday. Yeah. So we're taking advantage. We're going to spend time with our families.

Yeah. You guys are going to go take a little. Take a little trip. Yeah. So I hope nobody is upset. you guys are gonna go take a little take a little trip yeah so I hope nobody is upset I hope everybody knows that like

we love doing this and this is just to make sure that we keep loving doing this and we get to focus on some time with our families hmm yeah yeah

yeah our Patreon stuff will all still be active oh yeah we'll still we'll do a bonus episode and all of that still just our regular weekly episodes.

We're taking a month of June off. No freebies. We're cutting you off. Can you handle it? Oh. Oh. Adjusted for inflation. Says, thoughts on opening an LGTC ice cream slash dessert themed shop.

Oh, my. Oh, my. Oh. Well, I feel like it would be an excellent fit that would be mighty dangerous. I know. Okay. Do you think

okay for real do you think that if we worked in an ice cream shop we would get so sick of ice cream? Probably. Yeah.

So maybe maybe we'd actually be like looking like we'd be brought in to be the ideal body type. Obviously. At fashion shows.

And they'd be like, and what do you two do for a living? And we're like, we run two scoops together. That'd be the name of our ice cream show. Two scoops. Oh, wait. Or just the scoop. Yeah, the scoop. Because we're the true crime.

It'd be the scoop. Okay. It needed brainstorming, but now we're here. It's the scoop. And they're like, wait, but don't you also do Subaru Clits? And we're like, yes, we're very busy. That's next door. You have to walk out this door and in the next one. Yeah. And they're like, wow,

you two really are long-term friends. And we're like, no, we're straight. And they're like, sure. Sure, okay, Subaru Clits. And then they just start calling us Subaru Clits. It's a beautiful name. Brandy won't take guac with that. Wants to know, Brandy, have you started wedding

planning? London would be the most beautiful flower girl. Okay, so David and I set three goals for ourselves at the beginning of this year. Okay. One was to get another family car, because David's car was not a family car. So check. We did that in March.

Yeah, got rid of his hot rod. And the next goal was to get into a bigger place so that the kids could have their own rooms. They currently share a room. So we are moving in like days. So check. And then the third one is to set a wedding date and start planning. So yeah.

So soon to come. And the plan is that I'll be your flower girl, right? Yeah, exactly. Because I'm really cute. You're so cute. And you know what? I've seen little kids do that job. They fuck it up every time.

The flower petals are just. Have you seen the trend of having a flower dude? No. Okay, so it's like one of the grooms like best friends, okay? And they wear like a fanny pack and like sunglasses and they do like a coordinated like dance with the

with the petals. I don't like to see a woman put out of work, but you know. I do think that'd be fun. I do love a good fanny pack. I know. I know. You okay?

Yeah, I'm sorry. Dottie put her elbow on my foot, but I kicked her in the head earlier, so, you know, fair is fair. You had it coming. Hold on. DeVry Law School says, have either of you ever tried sleepy time tea I did for the first time last night and it whooped my ass I'm still tired today

okay DeVry Law School you're being poisoned because I do sleepy time tea you do? yeah I keep you know because sometimes I'm all anxious and I'm like I'll do some of this and boy it'll knock me right out. Does it? No.

I mean, it doesn't knock me on my ass. I'm pretty sensitive to the sleepy things. I feel like I feel groggy the next day. Wow. Yeah. I don't like to take NyQuil for that reason. I feel like even if I have the whole eight hours that they say you need, I still feel groggy. Like when I get up.

And I, usually I am like a bright-eyed, bushy-tail, like first thing in the morning riser. Like I don't usually sleep in and I'm pretty, I'm a pretty happy morning person. So I don't like to be grog down. Yeah. In the morning. Absolutely. Cramping my style. Sure.

You know what I love? What? Is that London's exactly the same way. She wakes up with the biggest smile on her face in the morning.

Oh, good lord. Bunch of cutie pies over there. So sweet. What about David? Yeah. Yeah, he wakes up pretty happy too.

Yeah. He will sleep in though if like he has the opportunity. I'm just not a sleep in person. Yeah. Yeah. He wakes up pretty happy too. Yeah. He will sleep in though if like he has the opportunity. I'm just not a sleep in person. Like I sleep till like 830. That's pretty late for me. Yeah. And I mean he's in his cage so like. Stop!

The cage! Poor David. Poor David. Oh, oh, here's a question. Wow. Here is a question just for you to wrap things up. Okay, okay. Mel Bell wants to know, do you untie your shoes every time you put them on or do you just slip into them?

I'm a slipper. Uh-huh. I know that's not good for the shoe yeah tears up the back of it yeah yeah and my parents would really get on me i can imagine your dad oh i can picture dp talking having a conversation with you about how the backs of those shoes weren't made for that. You just should untie them. You get a lot more longevity out of those things. Here's the thing, though. He's lazy. So he's a slipper, too. Oh.

Yeah. But, you know, he is sensitive to the money. And, you know, those court classics aren't cheap, Brandi. Except that they are. Except that they are. Except that they are. All right. All right. All right, should we do some Supreme Court inductions?

I think we shall. All right, we are continuing to read your names. And your favorite. Cookies. Rachel Arndt. Chocolate Chip. Dallas Ray. M&M Colossal Cookie from the Great American Cookie Company.

Okay. April Hunter. Mother Circus Animal Cookies. Carrie. Biscoff Cookies. Susan Lawrence. Peanut Butter with Pecans and Chocolate Chips. Icy Wiener.

Oatmeal Raisin. I was going to say it like an adult, and I couldn't do it. It's too funny. The Thought of Seeing Wiener. Samantha Fisher soon to be Dawson. Oh, congrats. Chocolate chip cookie dough. Brianna Smith.

Raspberry subway cookies. Kiko. Raspberry Linzer cookies. Cindy Chappelle. Chocolate chip. Amy Jane. Pinwheels. Carolina Picardo. Chocolate Chip. Megan de Blasio. Soft Milk

Chocolate Chip. Denise. Peanut Butter Blossoms. Stacey Kolcheski. Chocolate Chip with Walnuts. Ellen. Wiry. Wiry? Wurry? Wiry. Wiry. Wiry. Ellen. Why would you do this to us?

Ellen, worry. Insomnia confetti. Brandy. Lemon sandwich cookie. Natasha Manning. Soft batch chocolate chip. Scarlet. Samoas, but the cheap knockoffs.

Justin Ware. Any kind of Girl Scout cookies. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Thank you for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to Apple Podcasts.

Leave us a five star rating and review and then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the Web and sometimes Wikipedia. I almost read your line. Wow. We've only been doing this for 175 episodes now. I'm sorry.

I have to pee so bad. I'm like. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from a Texas Monthly article by Skip Hollinsworth, an episode of the Dead Wives Club titled The Bookie's Wife, and more. Skip Hollinsworth, an episode of the Dead Wives Club titled The Bookie's Wife, and more. And I got my info from an episode of Deadly Cults and an article by Kelly Wheel for the Daily Beast, as well as additional reporting for the Washington Post, WNEP 16 News, the Pocono Record, USA Today, and LawAndCrime.com. LawAndCrime.com. Law and crime, not lawn crime.

That's when you get a gazing ball. That is a lawn crime. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. Woo! Woo! Thank you.