Let's Go To Court! - 177: A Cold Case & A Lover

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

Corey Wieneke was popular. He’d been a high school football star, and soon after graduation, he began working in his family’s bar -- Wink’s Bar & Grill. His good looks and gregarious personality made him a well-liked bartender in West Liberty, Iowa. That’s why it was such a shock when, in 1992, Corey was discovered beaten to death in his home.  Then Kristin tells us about Gerald Gilbert, who was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher in his workplace. Gerald’s murder was so brutal that a doctor later testified that his head nearly exploded. The crime wasn’t tough to solve. Soon after Gerald’s body was discovered, his ex-wife Ann Huxley, arrived at the scene. When she heard about the crime, she handed police a list of possible suspects.   And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: An episode of Vengeance: Killer Lovers titled, “Secret Lives and Alibis” “Salesman clubbed to death,” for the Crewe Chronicle In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Black Candle Confession” episode Dateline “Annette Cahill” episode Snapped “Corey Wieneke” chillingcrimes.com “Corey Lee Wieneke” iowacoldcases.org “Woman Convicted In Lover’s Baseball Bat Beating 27 Years After His Murder” by Benjamin H. Smith, Oxygen   YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 19+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about a lover.

And I'll be talking about a cold case. We're back! We are back! Welcome back. Oh no. Welcome back. Welcome back. Oh no. Of course we became a lounge singer while we were gone. I am in a strapless

beaded gown. Brandy! We're back! We're back in the sex dungeon! Okay, that's... It alarms me every time you say that. We do have to mention it's an After Dark episode. Oh, it is, yes. And also, it's storming out.

I just... There was like a big like clap of thunder. And then a diddly. And then my candelabra came alive. So, you know, if you hear stuff. Stuff, that's what it is. It's the podcast you're listening to.

Yeah, if you're hearing something right now, it's our podcast. You dumb ass. I like to leave for a while, then come back and insult. Yeah. Absolutely. The people who support us.

That's exactly right. I missed this. So much. It was a good break. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel rejuvenated.

And Kristen had vaginal rejuvenation surgery while we were out, so she's rejuvenated top to bottom. Oh, my God. What if people believe you and they're like, you know why they took a month off? Because Kristen had to get her cooter stitched up. It's not that I had to. It's that I wanted to. She chose to get her cooter stitched up.

Yes. And I feel so much more confident now. Chose to get her cooter stitched. Yes. And I feel so much more confident now. They went in and just tried to do the one. And then they were like. The one what?

One stitch. Oh, I think you meant like the one vagina. I've only got the one. The one stitch. The vanity stitch. And they were like, it's still flapping in the wind. Oh, wow. Wow. And they were like, it's still flapping in the wind.

Oh, wow. Wow. I didn't realize that when we hit record tonight, we'd be mocking my beautiful new vagina. Now people are like, really? You think you got vaginal vagina? No, everyone, it's the same old vagina. And as proof, I will post a picture of it on Patreon. No, I'm just kidding. No, don't do that.

But she does have a freshly broken ass. Okay. Okay. Now we talked about it on the bonus episode. This is all a very smooth plug. A smooth plug about my butt. This is a smooth butt plug. So we just recorded the bonus episode that went out in June.

And I told the story of falling directly on my ass down the stairs. So Kristen sent me a picture of her ass. Brady requested a picture. She begged for a picture of it. And it looked horrible. And then there was also a bruise. My bruise has officially healed. Oh, thank goodness.

It really did look very painful. It was incredibly painful. I've never experienced anything like it. I believe it. I felt like I about split in half. There's a hole back there. There's a hole right in it. Oh, no, I forgot to silence my phone. Oh, God.

Oh, geez. What do you know? This is episode 177. Jesus Christ. How has this thing continued? We'll never know. Sorry, I've got an itchy ankle. Can you tell?

I can tell that you're doing something over there, but I don't know what it is. Masturbating scratches my ankle. I can see both your hands. Unless you got one of those, like, you know. Oh, God. Those things. I know. You know what I'm talking about? Like, where someone else has the remote elsewhere.

That seems rude to whoever you're talking to. It would be super rude if you were trying to do a podcast right now and Norm's in the next room with your button. Let me assure you that on this family podcast. Norm is nowhere near your button. Norman doesn't have any kind of remote attached to my new or old vagina. Boy, how do I let you do this? You know, we almost never discuss your taint. That's because I'm like Mary Poppins.

In what way? Practically perfect in every way. Practically perfect means you don't have a vagina? It's just like smooth down there. Just like a Barbie smooth area. I mean, you do carry a very large bag. You're like her in other ways. That's right.

And did you see my umbrella today? Yeah, you smacked yourself in the face with it. Smacked myself right in the face. Right as Norm was opening the door for me. And I said, you saw nothing. The most devastating part is like, we just got one of those security systems that has the little video. And he's like, I got it on video.

The video cut out right before she smacked herself. The moment of impact. Get ready to experience an all-new Don Valley North Lexus. Don Valley North Lexus has temporarily relocated around the corner to 7200 Victoria Park Avenue while they build a brand-new dealership for you. The deals don't stop, though. Get loyalty rates as low as 1.9%,

delivery credits up to $1,500, and save up to $7,000 on select demonstrator models. At Don Valley North, Don Valley North Collection. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. We had a visit from a ghost in the middle of that ad. He brought us beverages. If the beverages are real, doesn't it mean that he was real? A real boy the whole time?

Okay, let's see. Okay. Okay, that's not bad at all. Brandy talked me into a spiked Arnold Palmer, everyone. So it's about to get crazy. Believe it or not, this is our first sip of alcohol this evening. Yes, someone asked on our bonus episode, what's the drunkest you've ever been?

On an episode, it's like, no, we've never been drunk. We've sounded like we were drunk many times. Never actually been drunk. All right, are you ready to hear about a cold case? Do you need a blanket? That's so stupid. I do like it when you do the cold cases. All right, shout outs to Dateline.

Excellent episode hosted by Mr. Keith Morrison. That's absolutely correct. Shout out to a certain Oxygen Show. Snapped. Oh, maybe. We all know who you are, ma'am. And also to the website ChillingCrimes.com. You've been...

I did. So I actually found this case on their website after I used them as a source on our bonus episode. So people can't see me. I know you're doing a lot of hand gestures. I'm doing a lot of hand gestures. Ma'am, I know it's been a month, but just so you know... This is an audio media. Yes, yes.

All right. Here's an audio media. Yes, yes. All right. Here we go. Okay. Jodi Hoates knew something was wrong the second she pulled up to the small house she shared with her fiance in West Liberty, Iowa. It was on. What? You're already off the rails? What's happening? I already have a typo in here.

What is it? Okay, well, this is what my notes say. It was almost 6.30 p.m. All right. It was almost 6.30 p.m. on October 13, 1992, which is my stepdad Steve's birthday. And her fiance, Corey Winnikey. He's much younger than her mother. Was two at work at six.

Corey was a bartender at Winks, a bar and grill in town that his grandparents owned. Corey loved his job and he was very popular at the bar. He'd been a local high school football star. Oh, so he was like a stone cold cutie pie. And that popularity had followed him into adulthood. Jodi knew that Corey wouldn't just miss work. So for him to still be home, something had to be wrong. So for him to still be home, something had to be wrong.

Her concern grew as she saw their golden lab, Casey, running around outside off of his chain. And that concern turned into panic as she noticed their screen door was standing wide open. Now, a lot of people don't know what a screen door is. Shut up. No, they do because they listen to the podcast. And in that one episode, you over, over, over explained it. Now we all know. But for those of us who've forgotten. No! It's a double door.

It's a French door. Jodi entered the house and found Corey on the bedroom floor. There was blood everywhere. She called 911 and said, I think my fiance is dead. And when asked why she thought that, she replied, he's all bloody and he's not breathing and he's cold. And Jodi sobbed as she asked for them to send help. When police arrived on the scene, it was clear to them that Corey had died from blunt force trauma.

There were multiple injuries, including a skull fracture. You and I are telling weirdly similar stories today. Yeah, just so you know. Okay. Okay, anyway. Right. Stay tuned. Yeah, just so you know. Okay. Okay, anyway. Right. Stay tuned. Accidental theme.

All right. Corey Winnike, the local high school football star and popular bartender, had been beaten to death. Right away, police ruled out the possibility that this was a home invasion or a robbery gone wrong. There was nothing taking from... There was nothing... Wow. Wasn't a thing taken from a home. Brandy's been getting in touch with her southern roots.

There was nothing taken from the home and there were no signs of ransacking or anything like that. They determined that this was a targeted attack. Someone had come to the house that day with the express purpose of doing Corey harm. Is that what a targeted attack means? That's correct. Thank you.

You know, in case people were confused, I like to, you know, take it one step further. But the question was, Kristen. Now, what does confused mean exactly? Who? Yes. As news of Corey's death spread throughout the small town, rumors began to swirl. Maybe the killing was drug related. killing was drug related.

Corey did like to have a good time and he was known as a partier and a recreational drug user. Are we talking about like some pot? I believe so because police were like, yeah, no, this is not a drug related killing. There's nothing to point to that. So if the killing wasn't motivated by drugs, maybe it was motivated by sex. As it turned out, despite his engagement to Jodi, Corey had quite the reputation around town. Apparently he was banging like every woman in a three-town radius. He was known to have sex with women at Winks or in his car after his shift.

Oh, wow. Or even in his own truck in the driveway of the home he shared with Jodi. Oh, no. In fact, it was like an open secret around town that he had actually fathered a child with another woman in town. And Jodi didn't know?

Doesn't seem to. Yeah, maybe didn't know or didn't believe it. Yeah. Yeah. So police were wondering, had Corey's sexcapades finally caught up with him? Had he slept with the wrong man's wife? Or had Jodi finally had enough of his wandering eye. Okay.

Sexcapades and wandering eye. Did you like it? Did these come from the show? This is you. This is you. This is me. I think I watched a little too much Keith Morris. I think you did too.

When you said the sexcapades caught up with him, I was like, I'm sorry, what? It sounds like an Olympic sport. I mean, if you're banging every woman in three towns. It might be. It might be, yeah. I think you could go pro with that. I would say so. But police talked with Jodi that night and she was cleared as a spus...

As a spuspect? A spuspect. Why do people think that we're drunk on these episodes? I don't know! We'll never know. She was cleared as a suspect almost immediately. Because she was like, nope, I didn't do it. They were like, oh, thank you.

Great, thanks. So she told investigators that she had last seen Corey that morning when she had left for work at 8 a.m. He'd been asleep in their bed after getting home from his job at the bar sometime after dawn. After getting off work, she'd come home and expected Corey to already be at Winks, but instead, he was dead on the bedroom floor. So investigators contacted Jodi's coworkers at the bank that she worked at in Iowa City, and they confirmed her alibi. What'd you make that face for? Iowa City. I've been there.

I'm sorry. Oh, my God. I went to a summer writing program there. Okay, everybody, calm down. Calm down, everyone. Yes, I have been to Iowa City. Feel free to ask me anything about it. Nothing?

No questions? Nobody has a single question. Fine. I enjoyed the coffee shop. She had an ironclad alibi. She'd been at work all day. I enjoyed the coffee shop. She had an ironclad alibi. She'd been at work all day.

The following day, police got their first break in the case when the press, like, descended on the small farmhouse on the outskirts of town where Corey had been killed. So there's all of this press coming to the house and a reporter is, like, looking around, like, outside the house. And this reporter finds a bloody bat on the side of the road. And so he like calls the police over. He or she. I'm sorry. I don't know that it was a man. I don't know why I said he.

Because the patriarchy has you in its pocket. It runs deep in its pocket. So they call the police and the police come over and there is an aluminum baseball bat with blood on the end of the bat. It had white tape on the handle and then it was a blue, power flight heavyweight. Oh, yes. The white lettering had bloodstains on it. But the bat had the barcode label, like, still attached to it. And it looked fresh. Like, the corners weren't peeled up or anything.

This did not look like a bat that had been used. So someone purchased this bat for this targeted hit. Correct. Which a targeted hit means they came there with the express purpose of harming Corey. And they walked through

a screen door. Yes. Which is a door with a screen in it. So they looked into this bat. They were able to trace it to being purchased at a nearby Walmart and that it had been on

sale for $13 when it was regularly $15 because it was from the previous year's inventory. OK. But they weren't able to see who had purchased it. They were able to send it off to the lab. But remember, it's 1992. So the tests that they could do at this point were kind of limited. They didn't find any fingerprints on it. They did test the type of blood that was on it, and it was a match to Corey's.

And so they determined that this was the murder weapon. So news breaks in the town that they've recovered this murder weapon and this local farmer comes forward and he's like, hey, I saw that bat. And this would be their next break in the case. So he told investigators that he had driven up and down the road near Corey and Jody's house multiple times on the day of the murder. And he had seen the bat appear that day. So, okay, they talk about this on this Dateline episode. Like, this is a very common thing. So this farmer was, like, driving up and down this country road, like, checking his fields. And so it's very common for them to do, like, a slow drive, see if there's anything in their field, see if there's anything that needs tending to, whatever.

And so he'd done that once in the morning at like 9 a.m., no bat. But later in the day, like at 1 o'clock in the afternoon, he saw the bat. But he couldn't tell from the road that it was bloody. Right. He just saw the bat there. How incredibly lucky is that to have a window? Yeah, so it gave him a window of time of when the murder had to have occurred. Yeah.

window. Yeah, so it gave him a window of time of when the murder had to have occurred. Yeah. Somewhere between 9am and 1pm, in case you aren't following along. In the months that followed, police tracked down every possible lead.

They interviewed more than 400 people, including several women that Corey had been hooking up with at the time of his death, but the investigation went nowhere. Corey's parents, James and Susan Winnikee, were obviously devastated by the loss of their only child, but they received a little beacon of light in the months after Corey's death, when Jodi revealed to them that she was pregnant. Wow. And then she gave birth to a baby girl, Corey's baby girl. In this episode of Dateline, they talk about what a joy that was to have a little piece of Corey back in their lives. Yeah. What a joy it was to be grandparents.

But unfortunately, that joy was short-lived. As Jodi's daughter got older, she felt the need to protect her, to protect her from the town where her father had died, protect her from the town where rumors were constantly going around and where there were so many unanswered questions. And so eventually she moved away and no longer allowed James and Susan to see their granddaughter. They said on this episode of Dateline that to them it was like experiencing another death.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God, that's sad. Yeah, it's really sad. Are you glad that I included it here in our comedy podcast? We love to laugh on this podcast, so let's talk about grandparents never seeing their grandchild again. So James and Susan did the only thing they could do. They remained strong.

They clung to each other, and they clung to the hope that one day they would have justice for their son. But the investigation had gone cold. Years passed. Then years turned to decades. Oh, my God. Twenty-five years passed, to be exact. Oh, my God. 25 years passed, to be exact. And then in December of 2017, a chance encounter brought forth new information that reinvigorated the investigation.

So in December of 2017, Special Agent Trent Valletta of the Iowa Department of Criminal Investigation was at a hospital in Iowa. He was there to interview the victim of an attempted murder. And he was just like waiting. He was like in the ICU unit waiting like for this victim to be to a point where they could where he could interview him. And so he's just like standing by the nurse's desk. Right. Just kind of hanging out. And he was just in plain clothes.

And one of the ICU nurses came up to him and was like, can I help you? Are you here to see someone? And he's like, oh, yeah, I'm here to see, you know, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, OK, you know, are you a family member? And he's like, oh, no, I'm a detective. And she's like, all right. Can I see some credentials, please? And so he pulls out his credentials and she's like, OK, all right, that's fine. You can say she was like about to kick him out of the ICU. Hell, yeah. Yeah. And so this woman was Jessica Baker and she was a nurse there on the ICU unit. And so she gets to talking with this guy, this this special agent, Trent Valletta, while he's waiting to interview this person he wants to talk to.

And she's like, finds out that he works mostly cold cases. And she's like, oh, really? You work cold cases? He's like, yeah. He's like, there's just two of us detectives that work the whole state of Iowa's cold cases. God, that would be horrible. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And she's like, oh, have you ever heard of the Corey Winneke case? And he's like, no, I'm not familiar with it. And so she starts kind of talking to him about it. And he's like, yeah, no, I'm not familiar. And she's like, how much stake would you put in a nine-year-old girl's statement about something with that case?

And he's like, was she the nine-year-old girl at the time? And now she's an, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, tell me everything. Okay. Yes. And so he's like, well, I guess it would depend on the person and how credible the information is. And so she tells him that when she was nine years old, she was staying at her friend's house for a sleepover. Shut up. I've got goosebumps.

Oh, my God. Okay. Mm-hmm. And so she was at her friend's house for a sleepover. And her friend's aunt was also living in the house at the time or was at the house or whatever. So it's like right around Halloween, just like a couple weeks after Corey Winnikee's murder. And the girls are having a sleepover and they wake up in the middle of the night and they want to go down, sneak downstairs and get some snacks. And so it's after midnight.

They sneak downstairs in this old farmhouse where they're spending the night. And at the bottom of the stairs, this girl, Jessica, sees her friend's aunt standing there. She's got her back to her. And she's lighting black candles. And as she's lighting the candles, she's saying all kinds of weird stuff. She's crying. And she says, I'm sorry, Corey. I love you, Corey.

I never meant to hurt you, Corey. I never meant to kill you, Corey. No way. That's right. Yep. And so the girls are scared and they run back upstairs, scared of what they saw. And they go to bed. Christ, did you hear that? That woman was Annette Cahill. So police were familiar with Annette Cahill. She was someone that they had interviewed at the time of Corey's death. Okay. This is very good, by the way. Thank you. She was one of four women that they were able to confirm

that Corey was sleeping with at the time of his death. And they had been kind of interested in Annette at the time. Like she seemed to have gotten in an argument with Corey, and there had been an incident, like, the day before Corey died, where she had wanted to hook up with Corey after he got off work, but he'd come out of the bar with another woman and just offered her a ride home, and not, like, they weren't going to hook up that night. And, like, she'd gotten out of the car and, like, stormed off halfway home. So they'd interviewed her at the time and she told them that and she said that they made up you know

later that night and met up for sex and that everything was fine they had actually gone so far as to have Annette take a polygraph test at that time and she passed it and it had it had showed no sign of deception. And so they moved on with their investigation. So now they have this woman telling them that all those years ago she had seen Annette Cahill crying over black candles saying, I'm sorry, Corey. I never meant to hurt you, Corey. I never meant to kill you. That is a weird story. It's a weird fucking story.

I was really hoping when you told me this story, it would be more believable. So they're like, I don't know. Maybe this is enough. Maybe we should. So this guy starts, this detective's like, I don't know. Maybe I should look into Maybe we should. So this guy starts. This detective's like, I don't know. Maybe I should look into this case a little bit and circle back. And so he reads through it and he reads that they had looked into Annette at the time. And he's like, yeah, might as well.

Can't hurt to track her down. Right. Yeah. So he does. And he tracks her down. She's living in Tipton, Iowa at this point, which I didn't bother to look up how close that is to whatever city Iowa we're in now. But he looked in through her living room window and he saw her standing over black candles.

Woo! So at one point, like, when he was determining if there was enough behind this story that Jessica was telling him, he was like, did you tell anybody else about this at that time? And she had gone home the next morning and told her mom about it. And so police. Well, that's, I mean, that's something. Yeah, so police.

So he followed up and talked to her mom and her mom told the exact same story and was like, yeah. She came home that next morning, was very freaked out, told me this story. She said the, she told the exact Same way Jessica had And she said But I was scared I didn't want To get involved This was like

A very big topic In town at the time And I was afraid For our safety If we were You know Pointing somebody out As a suspect

And so I told her That the police Would solve the crime And that we didn't Need to be involved Oh boy Mm-hmm

And so they'd never Done anything with that information for 25 years. Shit. Mm-hmm. So they tracked down Annette Cahill, and she tells a little bit different story 25 years later about how involved she was with Corey Winnikey. By her recollection now, they were madly in love and about to skip town together.

They were meeting for sex five, six, seven times a week. Well, this guy was just a sex addict. Well, obviously, right? Yeah. Yeah. He was in the sex capades, the sex Olympics. That's exactly right. And so initially she was very open. She talked to the investigator. She came down to the station and did a formal interview with him. But she did something weird in the interview. They sit down in the interrogation room. And they're like, we just want to go over some stuff.

We're just following up on some stuff, just trying to put fresh eyes on this cold case. And she's like, yeah, you know, I'll answer whatever you want. I do have, I have about one hour. So whatever questions you want to ask me, you know, make sure they fit into one hour. And so to investigators, apparently this is like a huge red flag. This is somebody who's trying to control the situation and tries to put like a border on it, a timeline on it. And so immediately they were like, okay, all right. This woman's trying to, she's got something to hide is what they thought that meant.

Maybe she had a hair appointment. She had to get to work is what she said. That's really interesting, though, that that's. It's a major red flag, apparently, in an interrogation. Okay. And so they interview her for about an hour and then they tell her she's free to go, and they want to schedule another interview with her. And they're like, can you come back tomorrow? And she's like, absolutely, I'll come back tomorrow.

We'll finish this up. Only the next day she calls and cancels, says she's too busy. But the detective is like, oh, nope. And so he just shows up at her house. It's like, hey, I'd like to I'd like to talk to you some more about about what you know about, you know, Corey Winneke and everything. And she's like, you know, that's fine. I'll answer more questions for you. And this is all this is all just audio recording. I had like a recording device. There's no video of this. But she's like, that's fine. But you know what? I'm not going to get into I only want to talk about pertinent stuff with you. I'm not going to talk to you anymore about, you know, how many times we had sex or where we were meeting up

for sex because it doesn't fucking matter. And so he's a little bit upset with her tone at this point. And he's like and he goes, listen, he's like, that's where I'm the detective and you're not. I will decide what's pertinent and what's not. Oh, yeah. And so they talk for a little bit and then he brings up. Jessica Becker's story about seeing her with the black candles and what she said as she was lighting them. And she stood up and she said, leave. I'm calling my lawyer.

Mm hmm. She was arrested a couple of days later and charged with the murder of Corey Winneke. Wait, but that's all they had? I'm right! All they have is some 25-year-old story about a 9-year-old seeing something weird with some candles. I think this is cocoa nuts that this was enough to arrest a woman and charge her with murder. And the thing is, like, it could very well be true.

Oh, could be true. But it sounds kooky as shit. Yeah, and I mean, she could have seen that. I guess, I don't think that necessarily is enough proof that she fucking murdered anyone. She very well could have seen her and said, I'm sorry, Corey.

I never meant to hurt you, Corey. That's all you got and you're charged with murder? I find this very alarming. Extremely alarming. Because you go around saying that all the time. No. And all your candles are black.

I don't own a single black candle. I know. You dress in black. I don't decorate in black. No. I know. You dress in black. I don't decorate in black. No. Got a lot of navies. A lot of teals. I like a light, airy home.

You sure do. That's right. Matches my insides? I don't know. Your light, airy insides. You're like a moose inside. Not like the animal. Sorry, that sounded terrible.

Oh, no. Oh, no, don't spit. These are saying I'm like a moose, Chris. Inside. The moose inside you. What sound did moose make? Moose, moose, moose, moose. I'm like a milky way inside. No, I'm like a milky way.

No, I'm like, what's the three musketeers? I'm like a three musketeers. You should break me up. And I've got that fluffy nougat. That's not a nougat. That's just like a marshmallow. You fucking look up what they call a three musketeers right now. Okay.

I'm going to look it up. Be prepared to eat nougat. You be prepared is a nougat. I'm going to look it up. Be prepared to eat nougat. You be prepared to eat nougat. Oh, no. I went to the Three Musketeers Wikipedia page. Excuse me. D'Artagnan. He's my favorite musketeer.

It doesn't say anything about nougat here. Yes, it does. It says French historical adventure novel. Okay. Let's see here. Oh, oh, suck on this. What does it say? It is a candy bar consisting of chocolate-covered, fluffy, whipped mousse. Nougat.

Nougat. I knew you were wrong. Nougat. I knew you were wrong. I knew you were wrong. They really don't call it nougat? No, because it's not nougat. It is nougat. Mousse. Moose, moose, moose.

I'm very disappointed that I'm wrong. Did you really think that you could match wits with me on the Three Musketeers bar? Three Musketeers candy is the chocolate-covered candy bar with a fluffy nougat center that is a pure-taste adventure. Where are you reading that? Candywarehouse.com! Okay, would you have to go to page 20 of the internet for that?

No! go to page 20 of the internet for that no so anyway it's may of 2018 and annette cahill has been arrested and charged with the murder of cory winneke how did we start talking about nougats because i'm like a moose inside. Right. Okay. Sorry. I'm sorry. I should slow down on the Arnold Palmer and focus on the story at hand. It feels so good to have a victory.

It says nougat right here. You're calling this a victory? This is an outstanding victory. No. I'm sick of winning. No. All I do is win, win, win, no matter what, what. Three musketeers has moose.

There is not any new gut. So in 2019, Annette Cahill went on trial for the murder of Corey Winneke, based almost entirely on the story of a nine-year-old girl. Okay, this is fucking alarming. Getting uncomfortable. Yes. The prosecutor said that she had murdered Corey Winneke in a jealous rage because of his relationships with other women. They were supposed to leave town and it wasn't going to happen. She was supposed to hook up with him that night.

And instead, he was just going to drop her off at home and go home with another woman and so she'd gone and she'd bought that baseball bat and she'd come to his house and she'd let him have it and that's all of the evidence i mean that's not evidence That's just a theory. Right. Yep. Is that really all they've got? Yeah. They literally put Jessica Becker on the stand and she talked about what she saw that night when she was nine years old. And that was about it. And the defense was like, um, excuse me, there's no evidence here.

Yeah. Clearly she's not guilty. Clearly, she's not guilty. Well, she might be guilty, but there's not enough. There's reasonable doubt here. There's like oodles and oodles of reasonable doubt. There's tons of reasonable doubt. So in their closing arguments, the prosecution was like, the defendant's jealousy that Corey was choosing this other woman over her. That jealousy built up inside her. And that jealousy turned to anger, then rage, and then murderous violence. Did you say the defense said that?

No, the prosecution said that. Well, I know the prosecution. If I said the defense said that, that was an error. Okay. I said the defendant's jealousy. This is a terrible defense. No, no, no. That was the prosecution. I'm pretty sure I said the prosecution. Okay, roll the tape terrible defense. No, no, no. That was the prosecution.

I'm pretty sure I said the prosecution. Okay, roll the tape. I wouldn't swear to it, though. You've been wrong twice in this episode. So the case goes to the jury. They deliberate for like three hours on Monday afternoon into the evening. And then they come back Tuesday morning. And they deliberate for another three hours on Monday afternoon into the evening. And then they come back Tuesday morning and they deliberate for another three hours. And then they send a note to the judge.

They are deadlocked. Well, yeah. I mean. Well, yeah. What do you mean? Well, yeah, they're deadlocked. I thought they'd be like, oh, no, she's not fucking guilty. There's way too many questions here.

Listen, how many white people were on this Iowa jury? I don't know that. I know there's five women and seven men. Okay, I'm going to get myself in trouble right back from the break. What do you got? You want to give us your hot take? you got? You want to give us your hot take? I just think certain people are predisposed to siding with prosecutors and to siding with the side of the law. And I think if you're going to make a generalization, I'm going to say if we got some old white folks here, they're going to be

more likely to be like, you know what? The prosecutor said this. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Okay. All right. What? So they come back. The judge brings them in. Are we going to have to delete that? And he pulls the jury.

Mm-hmm. And they are deadlocked. They voted 11 to 1 in favor of acquittal. There was one holdout. Well, come on, everyone. There's always one idiot in a group. Oh, my gosh. And so a mistrial was declared.

Oh, come on. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So six months later, they do it all again. They try her again. Only this time they've got a new witness. His name is Scott Payne. And he had been a buddy, like a, like a, you know, murder, he had seen Annette burning clothes in a barrel in the backyard of their home and that they had looked to be blood covered.

But when he asked Annette about it, Annette said they were that was paint all over them, not blood. But he knew the difference between blood and paint because he worked in a slaughterhouse. Well, okay, now we're getting somewhere. Okay, so I think it's really interesting how they came up with this witness though. Okay. After the mistrial. Did they say, hear ye, hear ye, we need a witness? Okay.

Okay, alright. Are you ready? Yeah. Are you ready? Because I would like to point out that the reporter found the murder weapon. The farmer gave them the timeline. The nine year old girl gave them the suspect. And now, OK, it's they've just declared a mistrial. OK, they're in the courtroom. They're leaving the courtroom. They're they're outside the courthouse. And Corey's parents are like talking to a bunch of people. They're they're upset. But you know what? They didn't they didn't. It's not an acquittal.

They get to do it again and they're going to get their justice. And so they're talking to this woman and she's like, I just don't know why they haven't contacted my son. And they're like, what do you mean who's your son and she's like scott pain is my son and he he saw annette burning blood covered clothes right after cory's death well did he tell police that and so okay so they're like uh excuse me hello police investigators there's this guy who is saying that he saw her burning bloody clothes. Has anybody talked to him? And they're like, no, this is the first we're hearing of this.

And so the investigators track down Scott Payne. And he's like, yeah, he tells them the whole story. I saw her burning bloodstained clothes. She said it was Payne. I know the difference between Payne and blood because I work in a slaughterhouse. And they're like, why didn't you tell anyone? And he said, I was like a druggie. I tried to avoid the police at all costs.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so they're like, great. You're the witness we need. And so now it's trial to electric boogaloo. Only they've got a brand new witness. I have to say, I am annoyed with this man's mother.

Well, I don't know why they haven't talked to my son. I mean, okay, I'm as critical of the police as the next gal. But, like, they're not psychics. Right. Yeah. You know what I think what it is? People do this with reporters, too. Yeah.

Well, I don't know why you haven't come out and covered blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, because no one told me. Well, we all fucking know about it. I know. Now that I know, here I come. Yes. Okay. So, second trial is underway. It's six months later.

Prosecution is like, hey, Annette killed Corey in a jealous rage due to his engagement. She finally decided he wasn't going to leave Jodi. They weren't going to leave town. And then he was banging other women, you know. And they tell the jury how Corey was beat 13 times with that aluminum baseball bat. And that all of those 13 blows were inflicted while he was alive. They talk about how that bat had been found,

where it had been purchased, how cheap the murder weapon was, you know, really grabbed their emotions and all that. I mean, is the cheapness of the murder weapon supposed to be? I think it's supposed to be like she didn't, you know, she just went and spent $13 on an aluminum bat and that's how much it cost to end his life. Oh, you know what? That does. Yeah. Okay.

Right? Yeah. All right. I'll stop being an ass. That does get me. That's right. And then, again, they called Jessica Becker to the stand. And she talked about that night when she was nine years old and she crept down the stairs and saw Annette lighting the black candles.

Stop it. Did she say it in a spooky voice? She did. And the lights flickered in the courtroom. They were like, well, now we have to believe you. So this episode of Dateline is called The Black Candle Confession. Oh, my God. They come up with the dumbest titles.

God, they come up with the dumbest titles. And she talked about how that chance, she'd had that chance encounter with Agent Valetta and how she, you know, had been holding on to this secret her whole life and she just wanted to get it out. And she told a couple of police officers about it over the years and nobody took it seriously. And how it just felt so good to get that secret off her chest that she'd been carrying around all these years. And her mother testified that, yeah, Jessica had come home that very next day and told her that story. This is not something she's dreaming up all these years later. But they hadn't wanted to get involved because how brutal and vicious that attack on Corey had been.

Yeah. And then Scott Payne took the stand. This was the game changer. He was the one who could say that she was burning those blood-soaked clothes. And then the defense talked about how Annette had an alibi and how could it have been possible for her to kill Corey? She was just this one small woman and he was like a 230 pound man. And all of those blows had been inflicted while he was alive. How had she subdued him?

How big was she? She was small. how big was she she was small did she have any defensive wounds on her after the murder do you know i i don't know i mean she must not have had visible ones yeah i mean that is weird yeah i agree i agree and they pointed out that cory had been found with four hairs in his hand, and the prosecution didn't bring them up at all. They never said, those are Annette's hairs. They don't even know if they'd ever been tested or if they'd been deemed to be similar to Annette's or different than Annette's

because they'd never been tested. So if those hairs were hers, don't you think the prosecution would be telling you about them today? I sure think so. Yeah. I think the defense does a great job here. Yeah. Yeah.

Hmm. The prosecution was able to rebut some of the stuff because they talked about her alibi and stuff. She'd been shopping with a friend that day. But all of their receipts were time stamped after 1.25 p.m. Mm-hmm. And Corey had been killed sometime before 1. Wow. So the case goes to the jury.

And they deliberate for a few hours. They're deliberating. They're deliberating. And then they send a note to the judge. They're deadlocked. Yeah. And the judge asks them to go home and sleep on it. Yeah.

Please don't do this again. And so they did. And they come back the next day and they deliberate some more and they deliberate some more. And then after 16 hours of deliberation, the jury announced that they had finally reached a unanimous verdict. They found Annette guilty of second degree murder. Really? Yes.

Oh, my God. I can't fucking believe it. Okay. Do we know, like, what the split was? I do not. But what? Oh. I believe it's the Dateline episode puts it. what the split was. I do not. But what, one,

I believe it's the Dateline episode puts it, they compromised on a second degree murder conviction. See, this is the stuff that makes me so nervous because eventually people just want to go home. Yes.

And if there's one person or even two or three who are getting stubborn, sometimes it's like people forget what the stakes are. You shouldn't always compromise. No. Annette Cahill was sentenced to 50 years in prison. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I find this case very alarming.

Yeah. Holy shit. Annette, to this day, maintains her innocence. She has appealed her conviction based on a number of different arguments. One is about the prosecution witnesses. She had sought to exclude the testimony of Jessica Becker and Jessica's mother and Scott Payne, saying that there was no proof that any of this was true. This is just the word of people.

So they wanted to exclude that testimony, and they weren't able to. This is just the word of people. So they wanted to exclude that testimony and they weren't able to. No. This appeal talks about Jessica's testimony, specifically in the layout of the farmhouse that this supposedly happened in. So the story that Jessica tells on the stand is that she walks down the stairs and they peer into the dining room from the bottom of the staircase. And there Annette is lighting the black candles and saying, I'm sorry, Corey. I love you, Corey.

I never meant to hurt you, Corey. Only according to Annette, the dining room was not visible from the bottom of that staircase. Okay. Okay, so to me, that's not a huge smoking gun. Just because I feel like if, okay. Yeah, she's just misremembering a detail where they turned the corner. Yeah, a minor detail. Yes, yeah, yeah. Another reason that she wanted to exclude this testimony is because they actually questioned Jessica about other details about that house and about that sleepover. And she was able to recall none.

She couldn't say what date it was. She couldn't say if there were other kids present. She couldn't describe the layout of the house in any way. Again, not alarming. Nine-year-old girl, right? Well, I just think, well, you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of, like, when people are trying to recall traumatic events, usually like sexual assault and things. And, like, people get all hung up on, well, they don't know the exact date.

They don't remember what they had for dinner that day. Well, but, yeah, but that traumatic event is locked in. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, but yeah, but that traumatic event is locked in. She also appealed based on the lack of testing that had ever been done on those hairs that were found in Corey's hand. She also appealed based on the fact that she couldn't have been one person who attacked a 230 pound football player when she was this tiny woman. Logistically, it didn't make sense. I'm, yeah. Yeah.

I don't get that. I mean, he would have had to have been really out of it. Or she attacked him when he was asleep. The first blow happened while he was asleep. He gets up out of bed and she's able to hit him more because he's that's that's the only way that I see it as being possible. Even then, it's kind of a long shot. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Because it wasn't found in bed.

He got up out of bed. He was on the floor. Was there blood in bed? There was blood spatter all around the room. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, maybe it is possible if you see this is why this case is such a mess. I mean, maybe it is possible you go in when someone's sleeping and you just attack, attack. And if you land hard enough blows quickly enough, maybe you can overpower him.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I did to Norm. That's not funny. That's what I did to Norm. That's not funny. Sorry. In her appeal, she also highlighted a number of points that indicated that there was insufficient evidence in her case.

She never confessed to the murder. Never to anyone. There's never, like, no one's ever heard her say. She's never told anyone. Oh, my gosh, I did this horrible thing 25 years ago. She confessed over the black candles. And there was no physical evidence linking her to the crime in any way. To me, that's the kicker. Insufficient evidence.

They don't have hardly anything. There was no eyewitness to the murder. There was no witness that could place her with the bat. There was no witness seeing her buying it. There's was no witness that could place her with the bat. There was no witness seeing her buying it. There's no witness saying they ever saw her with the bat. There's no witness saying they saw her walking along the road and drop the bat. There's no witness that she was ever at Corey's house that day during that window when he was killed. during that window when he was killed.

The appeal argued that the only evidence the prosecution had was the testimony of Jessica and the testimony of Scott. So Annette requested that her conviction be set aside. And her appeal was denied. Oh. And she remains in prison. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Once they have their clause, you're, oh man,

you're not going anywhere. When they denied her appeal, the court noted that the evidence was not overwhelming, but when viewed in the light most favorable to the state, they are unable to find that it falls short of the substantial evidence threshold. I don't know, man. I agree.

This case is so alarming to me. Yeah, this is scary as shit. Yeah. And that's the story of a cold case. Damn it. Yeah. You know, one of the things I like about cold cases, when we talk about them on here, is like usually, okay, yeah, it takes forever to get justice. usually, okay, yeah, it takes forever to get justice.

But when a crime is solved 25 years later, usually it's because they've got the right person. Like something has happened. The DNA test. Just something big. This is not something big. No. There are so many questions. There's so much reasonable doubt in this case.

Man, that's scary as fuck to me. They're going to get you, Brandy. Whew. Whew. All right. Do you have anything as compelling as the black candle confession for us, Kristen? No. for us, Christian?

Uh, no. Really, my big victory is knowing that Three Musketeers are filled with moose. I stumbled across that case. Like, I... That was so good.

And I was like, you're fucking kidding me. This woman was arrested based on a nine-year-old's memory over these candles? Yeah. I'm still very riled up about it i know i know you because now you're thinking some i can't have a london can't have any friends over

because they're gonna come downstairs see me over my candles over my bath and body works three wicks saying creepy shit 25 years later later, boom, arrested. That's exactly right. All right. What we have here is an... What's wrong? My mom just texted me. She said, have you taken questions from the Discord yet?

Pick R.D. Bartz 1, please. What did R.D. Bartz 1 say? I don't know. Okay, well, now we've got to go see. R.D. Bartz, you've really gotten Brandy's mom all riled up here. Yeah, no kidding. Would you rather accidentally poop your pants in public or hold a tarantula slash snake and let them crawl slash slither up your arm? Oh, my God.

We do have to stay tuned. Stay tuned. That is a very good question. Yep. Yep. That's a good question. That is. Okay.

What we have here is an international case disclaimer. I'm going to touch on what that is just because, you know, we've got new people listening every now and then they're coming in here. International case disclaimer means that this case happened in another country

and the sources on it are a little harder to access from jolly old America. USA. So I don't have as many good sources on this as I would like, but still, it's an interesting tale nonetheless. We will be the judge of that. I guess you will. This case hails from jolly old England.

And today I will continue my streak of pronouncing the names of small British towns flawlessly. I woke up like this. Biggest of shout outs to the TV show Vengeance, Killer Lovers. And I know the title of that show kind of gives away everything. Yeah. But in my defense, this story is so stupid that you would have figured out anyway in like three minutes. Very good. The episode is called

Secret Lives and Alibis. Oh. Oh. Oh. Is there a ghost in here? The ghost of Norm haunting the sex dungeon makes an appearance.

I have to tell you something. What? I debated saying this. Because it's rude. Okay. I did not like this program. Vengeance Killer Lovers. Not a show for you.

It's a poor man's dateline is what it is. All right. It's one of those, they've got no budget. And they talk to hardly anyone who was actually involved. It's just a bunch of like, you know, talking heads, you know.

Anyway. Thank you to Vengeance Killer Lovers. Great program, Vengeance Killer Lovers. Well, they're the reason I'm doing this story. So that's why I'm an asshole. All right, picture it. October 31st, 2002.

It was a Monday morning in the town of Hooten. Highton? Hooten. H-U-Y-T-O-N. Which is outside of liverpool you think h-u-y-t-o-n would be pronounced how would you say it horton years of hooten as we all probably oh no oh no as we all probably already know, it was in this general area of England that Paul McCartney's aunt resided.

Obviously, everybody knows that. In 1963, she held a birthday party for him. And at that party, John Lennon got super drunk. And then a local DJ started being like, ooh, John Lennon got super drunk and then a local DJ started being like ooh John Lennon you're gay you went on holiday to Spain with another dude ooh gay and John Lennon was like nuh uh and then he beat up the DJ and it was quite a scandal and if you think that that story has nothing to do with the story of a backstop. You'd be absolutely right.

You'd be right. I looked up the town name, and that's just like one sentence somewhere, and I was like, well, hold on. John Lennon beat someone up because he implied he was gay? Can you imagine? Can you imagine? No! No! No!

It's easy if you try. Oh, shut up! Oh, did that went over my head? Imagine all the people saying that you're gay. Ooh! that you're gay. I'm just saying, man,

the homophobia even just a little while ago was real intense. Okay. Back to 2002. Okay. So John Lennon, no, I'm kidding. Well, he was dead by then.

Whoops. Whoops. Sorry. Okay. So John Lennon, no, I'm kidding. Oh, he was dead by then. Whoops. Whoops. Alright, everybody following along, John Lennon's dead. Screen doors are doors with screens in them. Okay, remember it was a Monday morning. Yes. And a warehouse was about to open. And one of the dudes who was

interviewed for the TV show, Vengeance Killer Lovers made a very interesting point that I'd like to share with you now. This warehouse, it was located in an industrial area. You know, so few warehouses are located in industrial areas. It wasn't one of those warehouses that you find at the end of a cul-de-sac, okay? The owner of the warehouse, which was located in an industrial area, was a man named Stephen Canavan. He arrived about nine, and he immediately spotted something disturbing. There were bloody footprints leading out of the building. So Stephen followed

the bloody footprints to the back of the warehouse where he discovered a gruesome scene. A man lied dead on the floor. Okay, I about fell out of my chair because literally on the episode of this TV show,

the narrator said there was blood everywhere. Must be a fan of the show. And now I'm destroying their self-esteem by making fun of the show. So Stephen called the police and he was like, hey, there's a dead body at my warehouse. And when the police heard that, they contacted the major incident room. Oh, OK. heard that, they contacted the major incident room. Yep. Okay. That, okay, I thought about this a lot.

That's like the one British term that I don't think is cooler than what we say over here. I don't agree. Major incident room. Room. I mean, it sounds like it's like you shit your pants in a room, right? Like, that's what that sounds like. I've got a major incident in my pants. Don't go in there.

That's the major incident room. Oh, my God. What if we made signs for our bathrooms that said major incident room? This podcast is not very highbrow. And that is your fault. Okay, it's my fault. I'm not the one who got vaginal rejuvenation surgery. I didn't either.

My vagina's just as floppy as it used to be. Because I'm confident. More to love. You have more vagina to love? What? Isn't that what people say when there's just more to love? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. So the major investigators showed up at the warehouse and they were like, yikes. Because this body was unrecognizable. It appeared to have been a man who had been shot in the face. They looked around the scene and saw what they thought was maybe shotgun damage to the ceiling. They looked closer at the body and discovered a deep indentation on the victim's neck. It looked like the barrel of a gun had been pressed against his skin. Also, weirdly, the victim's jacket was partially off.

The sleeves were turned inside out. What? That is something that they never come back to on this show, and it's something that really intrigues me. I agree. And so I started, I stopped, and I thought about it for a while. And maybe it was like he was coming inside the warehouse and taking off his jacket when someone came up behind him. I mean, otherwise that just doesn't make sense.

Yeah. The investigators discovered pieces of bloody latex under the victim's body. Perhaps pieces from latex gloves. Balloons. A terrible clown. This is why Brandy's so afraid of clowns. That's right. Were they giant bloody balloons?

Oh, my God. Case closed. Sorry. I was in poor taste. I apologize. The scene was really strange. There hadn't been any forced entry into the building. And the office did have a floor safe, which is that a British thing?

No, that's a thing. That's a thing. Okay. I've never seen. Alright, well I'm going to be looking at the floor next time, seeing where my treasure is. Usually they're in like a back office somewhere. But yeah. Okay, so I'll bust into the back office. It's got like a

hatch. Okay, yeah. So that's what they said, like the cover of the floor safe had been removed, but there didn't seem to have been any attempt to like find the keys to the safe. Also, another source said this, that the body appeared to have been kind of dragged near a forklift. So it's like, was this a robbery gone wrong?

Was this a staged robbery? Because they didn't appear to have actually won anything. Was this a staged accident? What the hell? Oh, like they wanted to make it look like maybe he'd just fallen off of the forklift. Yeah, I don't think these folks were particularly bright. Okay. Investigators began going through the victims' pockets and found identification for Gerald

Gilbert. He went by Jed. So they went to Stephen, the warehouse owner, and Stephen was like, yeah, Jed Gilbert was my sales manager. This was incredibly upsetting. Stephen had no idea who would want Jed dead. Jed was 46 and he was an incredible salesman, like the best. And someone had viciously murdered him. So investigators sent Jed's body to the medical examiner. And shortly after that, a woman arrived on the scene.

Her name? Ann Huxley. Ann showed up just worried sick. Was Jed around? Had anyone seen Jed? As it turned out, Ann was Jed's? Had anyone seen Jed? As it turned out, Anne was Jed's ex-wife. But they were still living together.

And they were for sure going to get back together. She hadn't even really wanted to divorce him in the first place. There was lots of love there, just tons of it, just oozing out of every pore. Stop asking questions.

The relationship was complicated. Just a lot of love, though. That's all you need to know. Okay. All right. Well, thank you not to be so smug. You're the one who thought there was nougat in the Three Musketeers bar. The investigators broke the news to Ann, and she was devastated, of course.

She burst into tears. And she told them that Jed had gone into work the day before to handle like a last minute delivery or something and he hadn't come home. So she'd been worried. She'd called friends and family, but no one had heard from him. That's why she showed up at his job. She was just so worried about him. Oh, yeah. Worried and in love and concerned. Worried, yeah. If I had to, like, you know, do the perfect description. So investigators sat down with her and asked her if she knew anyone who might want to kill Jed. But before I get to her answer, let's pause for a love story. Okay. Because I bet you're wondering how Anne and Jed met.

Well, you see, when Jed was a very young man, he joined a site called Tinder and he was targeted by an older woman Stop it! who claimed she wanted something casual.

Excuse me. I'm sorry. That's an error. Those are my notes for what will no doubt be a massive future episode. So here's the story of how- David should be so lucky to be trapped by me.

He loves every minute of it. He's going to get out of that basement one day, Brandy. And he will tell his story. Sorry, that's probably dark because that stuff happens. Anyway, David does seem quite happy. He puts on quite a show. Okay, picture it. They were in a club

in 1997. Music was blaring. Was it Sunny Came Home by Sean Colvin? The list of names. Or was it Where Have All the Cowboys Gone? What's the saddest fucking club you've ever heard of? Or was it...

By Paula Cole. Yes. Or was it How Do I Live Without You? This is the worst club ever. It's impossible to say because those are all excellent nightclub songs. I want to know. That was a real year for some kind of sad songs. Jed was 41.

Ann was 32. They were, according to some, kind of an odd pair. Jed was pretty successful. He had an adorable Victorian townhouse in Tobruk. But Anne was a dumb hoe who grew up poor. Okay. I'm just paraphrasing what was said on this episode. Okay, they didn't go quite that hard, but listen to this.

Oh, my God. Can you guys hear that? I wonder if the mics are picking it up. That's some thunder and lightning. The way you love me is frightening. That's what was playing in that nightclub. I bet. In 1997. It was oldies night. No, okay. that's what was playing in that nightclub in 1997

it was oldies night no okay listen listen to this shit on this episode of vengeance killer lovers a british journalist who was interviewed for this tv show talked about the differences between jed and ann and she said that Anne was from Kensington. And the journalist said that Kensington is, quote, quite a lowly place, actually. Oh! The shade! Holy shit!

Wow! Fuck, I hope no one listening is from Kensington. Right? Wow! Okay. I have noticed this about some of the British TV shows. They're pretty honest. American crime TV shows? No. Every small town is just

charming. It's lovely even when it's not. Picture-esque. The kind of community where everyone leaves their doors unlocked. I'm not used to the honesty when it comes to the town. I was like, holy shit. Also, I feel like you can only say that if you're from Kensington. So that journalist better have been from Kensington.

Or else I'm telling her mom. Sorry, I just spat everywhere. I believe it's pronounced mum. Mum. So quite a lowly place actually means that it was working class. Also, Anne had been divorced twice and she had a son and daughter. Jed, in contrast, had never been married, didn't have kids, and was just living the good life in his very cute Victorian townhome. Have I mentioned that it was very cute?

I was quite taken with the B-roll. But for all this talk of differences, you should know that Jed and Ann had one big thing in common. They loved business. They enjoyed money. In fact, they wrote a song about it. It went, money, money, money, money. Anne had an entrepreneurial spirit. That's a hard word.

It is a hard word. You know, every time I say it, you make fun of me. Well, because that one time you said, entrepreneurial. She had an entrepreneurial spirit. She operated a bunch of local businesses, including like a little coffee shop. Just like a cute little coffee shop. What's cuter than a little coffee shop? I actually think it would be awful. Because like just anybody can walk in there.

And you have to be nice to all of them. Like any job in the service industry, Kristen. That's why I'd be so terrible. Some of the stories you have, I'm just like, oh my God. I'd become a gun owner. Man, Jed was super into Ann. She was cute and had shiny brown hair, the kind that looks like it doesn't even have to be blow-dried.

What a bitch. I know. You know, our friend Laura growing up. Oh, best hair. The best hair. Let me tell everyone what she would do. She would take a shower and comb it and end of list. Yes.

That was it. And it was legitimately the best hair. It was like shampoo ad hair. Yeah. Oh, God. It's fine. It's totally fine. We're totally over it.

It's fine. Yeah. He was immediately taken with her, probably because she had hair that didn't have to be blow dried. That's all it takes. That's the sort of thing that can charm anyone. But not everyone was taken with Anne. Jed's sister and mom were like, oh, boy, she sucks. Or as they say in England, she blows chunks.

That's a very common British phrase. Is it? Yes. Get on the lift. I've got to get away from this woman who blows chunks. They say it all the time over there. Mind the gap. That woman's going to blow chunks in it.

I went to England once. But it didn't matter what his family thought of Anne. Jed loved her. They dated for about a year, and then she moved into his sweet-ass townhome, and in 1998 they got married. But the marriage wasn't great. Or was it? Depends who you ask.

According to Anne, they were just oozing love. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know how that is to ooze love? It's basically an infection. Oh, gross. Probably should have gotten it checked out. Pus-filled love.

Okay, okay, that's enough. Festering love. Burning, burning love. Man, I hate it how I resisted, resisted, and then you sucked me right in. Was that your foot? No. I'm sorry. I hit something and thought I was playing footsie with you as we were talking about burning love.

How long do you think our fucking legs are? Well, mine are pretty long. Stick your leg out. Tell me you can't. Yeah. There you go. There you go. Wrong again.

Boy. Boy, how's it feel? What do you think? We got like little twig legs? Our legs can for sure touch. Okay. shirt touch. Okay, but we're sitting like,

sitting apart from each other. They're not gonna, like, accidentally brush. We would have to intentionally touch the thing

together. No, no, sometimes I just, like, don't you ever just put your feet out? Don't you do some stretchies?

You don't do some stretchies. No! You know what? I've never once fully extended my foot under this table. I do it all the time. You know what they say. You should stretch every day, Brandi. I'm sorry.

You go to like two weeks of yoga class and now you're stretching. That's exactly right. It's been more like four weeks. Thank you very much. And I've been stretching daily. You want to see me go into the splits? No, I can't do what? Do the splits.

You kidding me? I'd have to be hospitalized. Anyway, so, you know, their marriage was good. Are you hot? I'm hot. She's taking off her clothing. Hot and... Wait, no.

What's a good club song? Wherever the cowboy's gone. Do-do-do, do-do-do, do-do-do, do-do-do. Where have all the cowboys gone? I can't remember the rest of the words. I love that song. Do you think people will listen to this shit show of an episode and be like, they should have taken more time off? Like they came back to you.

It's just not fully cooked. Put them back in, boy. Oh no. Okay, so. Bottom line. I'm great. Don't worry. Were you admiring my voice?

Admiring what I got up here? I was checking out your ample bosom. Yeah. Looks like you have like a spot on your nip. Really? I would. Oh, my gosh. What did I do? Uh oh.

I mean, I dropped some liquid like right on the nip. Oh my gosh. I hope that comes out. Otherwise, this shirt's a goner. I mean, unless do I make another stain on the other side and then people are just thinking like... What would people be thinking? That they're just like seeing some nips. It's weirder to only see one.

What? You're right, it is. Yeah, so don't give me that look like I'm being weird. Okay, so bottom line, after four years of marriage, they got divorced. I'm not laughing at the divorce. I've just still got the giggles from earlier.

Anne never moved out of the townhouse, but they did sleep in separate rooms. So they were like roommates. Roommates who used to be married to each other. But weren't anymore. Doesn't that sound fun? That sounds fucking terrible.

Is that not like the biggest nightmare? Yeah. So it sounds kind of awkward. And it was, especially when Anne started seeing new guys And bringing them to the townhouse What? Well, I mean What?

Got something to say? It's kind of Jed's townhouse, so Well, no, they were married Jed had the townhouse before they were married. But don't you get, hmm, how's that work? Once you get married, doesn't it become, yeah, I mean, I guess. Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

I don't think it's a great move. That's all I'm saying. So was it super awkward when that happened, or was it super freaking hot? Well, it was obviously pretty hot because at some point, Ann wanted to get back with Jed. Sorry. It wasn't hot. I just said that. In the summer of 2002, leading up to Jed's murder, Ann and Jed reconciled. But as the narrator of Vengeance Killer Lover so wisely pointed out,

any hopes of reconciliation are lost after Jed is found brutally murdered. What? What? I mean, fucking obviously, man. What? I mean, fucking obviously, man. What? Fun fact, you can't get back together with someone after they are deceased. We don't have the technology. Oh, my gosh.

Is that not the dumbest thing you've ever heard? Yeah, I can see why you didn't like this show. Like, oh, hold the phone. Once he was brutally murdered, they could no longer get back. I see. I see. I see. Thank you for spelling that out.

That does hit pause on things, doesn't it? So now that you have Ann and Jed's backstory, let's go back to the day that Jed was found murdered. Investigators were talking to Ann and asking her if she knew anyone who would want Jed dead. And as it turned out, she most certainly did know some people. You see, Jed was a gambler, and he was not a great gambler. He owed money to several casinos. In fact, Jed's gambling was the reason they divorced. Ann had been worried their house would be foreclosed on.

So they divorced even though they didn't want to and were still very much in love. This is all Anne's narrative? It's the truth. Okay. You bitch. So, please, let's all start a cork board in our minds where we can put up unflattering pictures of murder suspects and tie them together with red string. Yes. First picture.

All the local casino owners. We will accept a group pic. Okay. Right there in the middle. Uh-huh. And also mention another suspect. She said that Jed had stolen from the company he worked for. He'd stolen 11,000 pounds from his job. How'd he carry all that? Oh my god. You know what? The worst part of this is, I was like, okay, at this point, Brandy is going to make a stupid joke about pounds.

And I was prepared for it because I thought I knew what your joke would be. I did not know it would be that. So thus, I am unprepared. Man, that stings. That stings. I thought you would say, 11,000 pounds of what? And I would say, 11,000 pounds of U.S. dollars. Damn it.

Anyway, so he'd stolen 11,000 pounds from his job and boy were his arms tired. People for sure turn this episode off. This is going to be so long. Okay, so maybe Jed's boss was pissed off about the theft and decided to murder him. It wasn't a bad theory.

Steve Canavan was the one who found the body. He had a reason to hate Jed. But, Brandy, you look like you've got a hankering for another murder suspect to pin on the old mental corkboard. I sure do. Fine, and we'll give you one. You see, after she and Jed got divorced, she started dating a guy. A guy named Paul Gunning. But remember, Anne and Jed were still living together.

And that pissed Paul off. He was like, this is weird. I don't like it. And finally, Anne ended things with Paul. And he was super bummed because she was the type of woman who looked like she didn't even need a blow dryer. And you just can't let that go.

So maybe Paul murdered Jed. You know what I think? What? I think it was probably Ann because the show is called Vengeance. Killer lover.

No, no. You're way off. I have given you the suspect so far and do not stray from the suspect board. Please. Okay.

So, you know, maybe... I also really like when there's just like one person who's like, hey, how about this guy? And also, wait, how about this guy? Also, oh...

How about all these guys? Uh-huh, you know, anyone but me. The one person who might benefit. So Paul for sure murdered Jed. Because get this, after she broke up with Paul, he became obsessed with her.

He started harassing her. In fact, Ann told investigators that it got so bad that she had no choice but to ask her dear friend, who was also named Paul, to go rough up Paul number one. So, who could the murderer be? A random casino owner. Steve Canavan. Paul Gunning. Paul Eaton.

Twas a mystery. Is it? Soon the medical examiner came back with a cause of death. And it turned out Jed hadn't died from a shotgun wound. Instead, he died from severe blunt trauma to his head. Oh, my gosh. Okay, this... I mean, this is gross and bad.

Every bone in his head had been obliterated. Oh, my gosh. That's what they said in this episode. Another source said that his brains had been blown out. He had a big hole over his left eyebrow. It was too much to have even been done with the butt of a shotgun. Oh, my gosh. So the killer must have used an object to beat him.

And when examiners searched the warehouse, they discovered that a fire extinguisher had gone missing. Hmm. I have to pause to tell you something else. Also in this episode of Vengeance Killer Lovers, they make a point of mentioning that it would be really weird for someone to just come in and steal a fire extinguisher. I'm glad that they spelled that out for us. But they're wrong, because I'm the fire extinguisher bandit. People don't know my terror yet, but wait till some building catches on fire.

And all the fire extinguishers are gone. Well, I don't take all of them from one building. I'm not a monster, but it's going to take them a while to get the fire extinguisher. They'll be like, I thought we had one in the break room. No. No. They have to go to the basement. Yeah.

They should probably just leave at that point. No, they have to go to the basement. They should probably just leave at that point. So they started going through their list of suspects, talking to everyone, and they talked with Steve Canavan, Jed's boss. And they asked him all about the stolen money. And Steve said, yeah, Jed did steal 11,000 pounds from me. And he wasn't that buff, so I don't even know how he did it. But he was like, I wasn't that mad about it.

I didn't fire him because he's such a good salesman that I knew I couldn't replace him. That sounds nuts to me. That sounds cocoa nuts. Yeah. So what this guy said was, I just made him pay back what he'd stolen by taking it out of his paycheck. And when he died, he'd paid back about five grand. So Steve was like, I didn't want him dead. I wanted him to keep working for me. I wanted him to pay back everything he'd taken.

Okay. But that's crazy, right? Yeah. Why would you want to keep someone like that? Yeah, I don't know. Remember that time I accidentally used the podcast credit card to buy dinner? And you almost fired me. But you allowed me to keep working.

And you took it out of my paycheck. I did not. Because you knew you could never find another podcaster like me. They don't exist. They still grow on trees. So investigators were like, okay, you know, that kind of made sense. So they said, what's your alibi? He did have one.

But since vengeance killer lovers didn't mention what it was, we have to assume that at the time of the murder, he was affixing a shiny, gleaming truck clit to the back of his Subaru. We have to. We have to assume. Yeah. Then they interviewed Ann's ex-boyfriend, Paul Gunning. And Paul was like, nope, I for sure didn't want him dead. Yes, I hooked up with Ann. I'm over it.

Also, I have an alibi. And since the TV show didn't divulge Paul's alibi either, we have no choice but to assume that at the time of the murder, he was watching Stephen affix a shiny, gleaming trucklet to the back of his Subaru. And Paul was standing there thinking, dang, that's pretty slick. Where do I get one? Yeah, obviously. So police took him off the suspect's list because that's an awesome alibi. But they did get some information from Paul Gunning that they tucked into their back pocket. You see, Paul used to own an escort company called 2020.

It's not very sexy, huh? No, it's not sexy at all. I mean, I don't want to tell you, but maybe if you're an escort company, you want to kind of... Yeah, fly under the radar. Yeah. Yeah. Accounting R.S. You were talking about, like, hindsight.

Oh, like butts. I get you. You know what I'd call mine. Butt sight. You know what I'd call mine. Butt site. He said he'd met Anne when she applied for a job with him. And plot twist, eventually took over the business.

She did have an entrepreneurial. She had the under the royal spirit. All those shops Anne owned, including the adorable coffee shop. Fronts. Fronts! For an escort business! I can see that you're confused. You don't know what an escort business is.

I do. You've never heard of sex work. You've been giving it away for free this whole time like a chump. Well, let me tell you what vengeance killer lovers told me. No. Okay. Sometimes escort businesses are just for folks who want to pay to enjoy the company of a sexy someone. But other times it's a clever disguise for sex work.

Sex work! Sex work! They were really stunned about this. I think we should legalize that shit. This seems so stupid. Absolutely. What's the fucking problem? What's the problem?

We're fucking. See, that's our new slogan for our new escort business. Called butt site. No one pays for the company of a sexy someone. I mean, that's just silly, right? Maybe they just want some snuggles. Well, then you're paying for the snuggles. You're not paying for the company.

Okay. I guess I don't know. Anyway, so now you... People pay for all kinds of shit, Kristen. That's true. That's true. I remember there was a time when I thought people wouldn't want poison ivy on their butthole. It's a real kink.

But then you told me about what you like. Stop it. And now I'm trying to be more open-minded. I am shocked when I see you scooting down my side. No, I just read about this woman who did fetish videos. She wasn't nude. Her fetish videos were her getting stuck in things and then freeing herself. So this showed up on Reddit because she got stuck in a folding chair. And she had to call the fire department and they had to use the jaws of life to get her out of it.

Well, no. Yes. You know what? She put on clothes before she called the fire department. I think that's probably got to be her most popular video. I mean, if she has to call the fire department to get the Jaws alive, I bet those dudes were jerking it like crazy. That is the thing, is they want her to for real be stuck, but they want to see her get free, too. Yeah, and I'm saying.

That if the Jaws of life have to get involved, then there's splooge shooting everywhere. Exactly. Power packed gobs have come. I would never say that. That's disgusting. Yeah, that's kind of the problem is, where does she go from here? Yeah, she's peaked.

You know what? It's clearly peaked. You know what I would do? What? You know what? It's clearly peaked. You know what I would do? What? Well, at a certain point, you've got money to hire actors to be, you know, firemen and be like, oh, yeah.

Oh, help. I'm stuck in my refrigerator. I don't know what. She gets stuck in probably that refrigerator. It doesn't make sense. She probably has to put a lot of thought into the plots of these things. I'm sure she does. Because I'm sure they want a story.

Yeah. Yeah. All right, I'll start. But I read that and I was like, huh, there really is just all kinds of stuff that people get off on. I wasn't remotely sexually aroused by it. Did you watch the video? I watched the video of her getting unstuck, the Jaws of Life coming in. Pretty satisfying, huh?

No. You wanted to see her remain stuck. That's your kink. So, okay. Oh, let me also tell you about her business model. Okay. Ann hired the sex workers. They did their thing and she took a cut.

Yeah, that's how that works. They explained it. You see, unfortunately, they were about a year away from hearing 50 Cent's classic tune, B-I-M-P. But nonetheless, they seemed to understand her business model. I don't know what you heard about me. So they talked to Steven. He didn't do it. Talked to Paul.

He didn't do it. Now it was time to talk to the other Paul, Paul Eaton. Paul was the guy who Ann had said she'd ask to rough up Paul number one. Turns out Paul Eaton was a bouncer at a nightclub. And he met Ann because she was looking for people to open up escort agencies in new areas of town. Much the way you might recruit new franchisees for a Dairy Queen. As Ann had told it, she and Paul Eaton were dear friends. Just dear friends.

But when investigators talked to Paul, they quickly discovered that they were more than friends. Lovers. He was in love with Ann. that they were more than friends. Lovers. He was in love with Anne. In fact, their relationship was quite serious. They'd gone on a romantic trip to South Africa together. And while they were in South Africa,

they were having such a good time that he proposed and she accepted. Okay, that is very serious. Yes. Did you think I was making it up? Okay, that is very serious. Yes. Did you think I was making it up? No, they are very serious. Yeah. So investigators were like, okay, we get it now. Maybe you were jealous of Ann's relationship with Jed and you decided to kill him.

And Paul was like, no, she was my fiance. We're together. I have no reason to be jealous. Also, I have an alibi. And because vengeance killer lovers doesn't say what his alibi was, we have no choice but to assume that on the night of the murder, he was looking at Subaru clits online, which isn't a very solid alibi, so they kept him on the suspects list.

But that was just a hilarious joke delivered to you by a comedy genius here's what his real alibi was and i think when i finish telling you this alibi you'll agree that it's about as good as looking at super eclipse online here was his alibi. His mom was sick. So he called his friend because he was, like, sad about his mom being sick. And because you can't make this shit up, you should know that this friend was also named Paul. There's so many Pauls. There's so many fucking Pauls. John Lennon's friend was named Paul. That's true.

Our friend Laura with the good hair had a cousin named Paul. That's true. Paul's Paul's everywhere. I'm appalled by how many Pauls were in this story. Oh, my God. Oh, I tried to stop it. I tried. I tried.

It was too late. It was out. It was out. Okay. So the alibi was a little hard to follow, but I'm going to do my best here. Paul I and Paul II, or maybe Paul II and Paul III, you know, got in the car to drive to Wales. But on the way there, the car started to sound a little funny. So they turned around and went back to town, and they had a drink there.

But when they finished the drink, uh-oh, the car wouldn't start. So yeah, that was the alibi. That's not a great alibi. So police called in the other Paul, Paul Lewis, who was also a bouncer, and Paul was like, yep, the car, the drink, the car wouldn't start. Yep, sums up my night. But you know, it kind of sounded like steamy, creamy bullshit. Yeah.

It was such a convoluted alibi. Plus, Ann had lied about her relationship with Paul. Her fiancé. Why? They looked at Ann's phone records and discovered that she had called Jed's friends and family the night he was murdered. Also the police, which is just a fun fact that they threw in kind of late in the episode, but whatever. And she'd also called Paul Eaton. Ooh.

Here's why this is bad, Brandy. You see, cell phones, they go ping on the towers. This is new information to us all, so I'll walk it through slowly. The cell phones go ping. The towers go pong. The shoe-op should do. Your location won't be missing for long. No. Yeah.

I think anytime a true crime show is going to explain to us again how cell towers work, they should just do that little rhyme. Okay. Here's the thing. When Ann called Paul, according to his alibi, he should have been driving to Wales, but according to the pingy-ping-pings on his cell phone, he was actually in Page Moss, which is not me telling you that he was having sex with a woman named Page Moss. That's the name of a place near the warehouse where Jed was murdered.

Are you okay? That was your best joke all episode. Thank you. Had a lot of swings tonight. Didn't take a genius to figure out that this whole thing was a little fishy. Investigators talked to Jed's friends and family, and they did not hold back. They were like, Ann sucked! And they divorced because she was done with him.

She never really wanted to reconcile. She hated Jed's gambling problem. The only reason she was with him was for the money. Also, after the divorce, she treated him like a doormat. But all of a sudden, in the summer of 2002, she did an about face. She'd been so done with Jed, but now all of a sudden she was like all over him. She said she wanted to get back together out of nowhere. Gee, I wonder why she wanted to get back together. Probably for love, right?

Or it could have been money related. Could have been. Check this shit out. This is like, this is so stupid. Okay, a few weeks before Jed was murdered, Ann went to an insurance company and took out a 400,000 pound life insurance policy on both of them.

Then in August, she went to an attorney and had wills drawn up and took out a 400,000 pound life insurance policy on both of them. Then in August, she went to an attorney and had wills drawn up. And Jed said that if he died, everything would go to her. P.S. He was murdered six weeks after those wills were done. Also, investigators followed up on Paul and Paul's topsy turvy alibi. I feel like that should be a ride at Disney World. And they discovered that it was true, that the two Pauls had gone out for a drink the night that Jed was murdered. The bar owner confirmed it. Yep.

Bar owner had an excellent memory. He remembered them being there. And you know why the bar owner remembered them? Because Paul and Paul showed up with a fire extinguisher. Yes. Fucking idiots. Can you believe that? Oh, my gosh.

Okay. Turns out next door to the bar was a galvanizing factory, which I guess has just vats of acid just hanging out. So Paul and Paul hopped the fence through the fire extinguisher into one of the vats of acid and then came back to the bar and ordered a round of appletinis or something. We have to assume it was appletinis. Obviously. You ever had an appletini? Delicious.

Yeah. Okay. Clearly didn't make an impression on you. No, it's fine. Pretty sweet. Well, yeah, I haven't had one in many years. It's more of an early 20s drink. For sure.

So police called up the galvanizing factory and they were like, hey, do us a solid, run a pool skimmer through your acid vats. And they were like, sure. And they found the fire extinguisher. Also, I can tell you think that the Pauls are innocent. But I've got bad news. Yeah, I know. They did a DNA test on the pieces of latex glove that were found under Jed's body. And it was 100% those bitches.

No, it came back with Paul Lewis's DNA. Yeah. So on December 16th, 2002, six weeks after Jed was murdered, Paul and Paul were arrested. And Paul Eaton, Ann's lover, was like a cashew that had been left out in the rain. An easy nut to crack. That was your worst joke this episode.

I loved it. I thought of it, and I laughed out loud. Are you ready to hear his confession? I am. Okay, here it goes. Yes, he was there the night that Jed was murdered. But he'd only gone there that night to warn Jed to stay away from Anne. No.

Yes, Brandy. He was just a good guy there to say, hey, she's engaged to me, pal. Stay away from her. Thank you. Goodbye. But then Jed, like a total psycho, pulled out a shotgun out of nowhere. And well, what was Paul supposed to do? He started wrestling with Jed.

There they were in the warehouse wrestling with a shotgun when all of a sudden, boom, it went off into the ceiling. Somebody just peed their pants because of that. Poor Paul was startled. Much like you, my pee-soaked friend. He was frightened. So he looked around and spotted a fire extinguisher.

And he grabbed it. And he beat Jed with it. Because he was startled? Well, they wrestled with a shotgun he feared for his life. What this is, Brandy, is a classic case of self-defense. Oh, is it? The kind of self-defense where you break into somebody's workplace and threaten them. Meanwhile, in another interrogation room, the other Paul was like a pecan on a humid day.

Still a little tough to crack, but overall not too bad. No. Would you like to hear his confession? I would. Tell me you like the nut jokes. No. Say it. nut jokes. No. Say it. Say it.

No. Okay. He hadn't gone into the warehouse with the other Paul. Instead, he'd sat outside in the car relaxing, listening to his favorite Susan Boyle CD. When all of a sudden, it was 2002, we can only assume. I dreamed a dream. Time gone by. What's the next line? Would be forgiving.

Do you remember how awful people were? They were like, wow, how is it possible that someone who's not conventionally attractive can sing like that? Oh, that's amazing. It's like, you know it has nothing to do with it. So anyway, he's jamming out to Susan Boyle. And all of a sudden, he heard... You're not alarmed at all by the fact that we both know what song Susan Boyle sang on Britain's Got Talent in 2002. You know what's funny?

Is if you had asked me what song did she sing, I would have told you I had no idea. But man, from the first note, I was like, I dream, I dream. I knew exactly. This is what happens when people grow up together. All the references just kind of line up. So anyway, he hears loud noises from inside. He hears

the bang and he hears shouting. So he ran inside and he saw his good buddy Paul beating Jed with a fire extinguisher. So he put on his latex gloves. No. Oh my god, Brandy.

My stars. So, you know, investigators, much like yourself, asshole, were like, okay, cool, cool, cool, but how do you explain the pieces of latex glove that were found under his body? Well, I was trying to distract him by making balloon animals. The truth is that Pauls didn't have much of an answer for that. Also, no word on what happened to that shotgun.

Okay. The next day, investigators interrogated Anne Huxley. And Anne was like a walnut in a dry heat. Very tough to crack. I apologize on behalf of my co-host. Don't you dare.

They can't hear you because they're laughing so hard. What if this is the end of the podcast? They're like, she made three nut jokes. None of them worked. Each one flopped harder than the one before. She told them that she was just so sad that Judd was dead. Oh, she didn't know anything about it.

Nothing new to say here. He said he was going in for a business deal and then he never came home. And investigators were like, okay, but what about that insurance policy and the new will? And what about your new fiance? She was like, my goodness, how dare you? I had nothing to do with this. If anything, it sounds like Paul Eaton is just obsessed with me. He just had to have me. And the investigators were like, well, you do have the kind of hair that looks like it doesn't need a blow dryer. Then a new witness came forward. She said that Paul Eaton told her that he went to see Jed that night intending to shoot him with a sawed off shotgun. And at the last minute, he couldn't do it.

She said he told her that Jed grabbed the gun from him and they struggled. And at that point, Paul Lewis came in, grabbed the extinguisher from the wall, and the two of them beat Jed to death. The friend said that Ann had promised both Pauls 100,000 pounds in exchange for committing the murder. Yeah, that sounds like the real story. Yeah, that sounds much more believable than anything else we've heard. Yes. So in April of 2004, Paul, Paul, and Ann went on trial. In court, Ann dressed a little frumpy.

She tried to look kind of like a middle-aged housewife, evidently, and not a motherfucking P.I.M.P. The prosecution argued that Ann was a black widow. She'd plotted her ex-husband's murder. The friend testified about what Paul Eaton had told her, and then another friend of Paul Eaton's testified that Oops Fudge Stripes, he'd accidentally helped out with the murder. Are you ready for this? Yeah.

He told the court that on the night of Jed's murder, he drove the two Pauls to the warehouse. They told him that they were just going there to repo a car, which I guess was something they did every now and then. Okay. The friend said he honestly didn't know that he was there to, like, be the getaway driver in a murder. And apparently the two Pauls told him to park somewhere and wait for their phone call, and unfortunately for the Pauls, this guy parked near a cell tower.

And I don't know if you've heard this, but cell phones go ping, towers go pong, and shoo-wop-sha-doo, your location won't be missing for long. It wasn't until the Pauls got back in the car that the friend realized, oh shit, this was not a car repo. Okay, one of them

was like covered in blood. And also there was no other car. Yeah. That's the biggest hint. They also said they'd beaten someone up. The prosecution also called a doctor who testified about all the injuries that Jed had suffered. She said Jed had been beaten so badly that his head practically exploded.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I mean, this is just awful. So Paul Eaton was the first one to present his defense. Once the prosecution rested, his attorney stood up and announced that Paul was going to change his plea to guilty. Oh. What? Yes. What? Yeah. This was kind of nuts because

if you admit to murder in England, you automatically get a life sentence. We talking like a cashew or a pecan or a walnut? Don't you try to get in on this business here. You were too good for it. Several paragraphs to go.

I'm taking my nut jokes and going home. So, I mean, this was wild that he did this. The theory was that he was still so madly in love with Anne that he just wanted to kind of take all the blame that he could. So he was like, I did it. And Anne must have been pretty happy with his decision because when it came time for her defense, she was just like, yeah, I guess Paul was super jealous.

He attacked Jed for no reason because, you know, I'd broken it off with Paul. I wanted to get back with Jed. Remember oozing, festering, boiling love. Hunk of hunk of burning love. And as for that life insurance policy, well, that was for my children. Wanted to make sure they were taken care of. When Paul Lewis's defense took over, they, of course, put all the blame on Paul Eaton. When Paul Lewis's defense took over, they, of course, put all the blame on Paul Eaton.

Paul Lewis was just a chill dude who'd sat in the car the whole time while the other evil Paul went in and murdered Jed. And, of course, the prosecution was like, yeah, that's not what the evidence suggests, though. Ultimately, the jury found Paul Lewis guilty of murder and Anne Huxley guilty of conspiracy. Yeah. Both Pauls got life in prison and Ann got 20 years. That's the story of a lover. Who? Who doggies?

20 years and like she's the the glue that's holding that whole thing together. Well, and get this. These two douchebags were up for parole in 2020. Yeah. So I looked a little bit into that. One of them is trying to get appealed and they were like, no. Yeah.

The judges are quite harsh there. Quite, quite lowly. Quite a lowly place, actually. Oh, my God. Can you imagine? It's easy if you try. Shut up. Your skin is looking amazing.

Well, it damn well should. Because I've got it all figured out now. You know what I think we should do on this fine, fine day? Should we take some questions from the Discord? It's been too long. It has been too long. Well, we've got to answer the one that your mom pointed out. I know, my mom wants us to answer the question from ArtieBarts11.

All right, we have no choice. Okay. Lay it on us. Brandy and Kristen, would you rather accidentally poop your pants in public or hold a tarantula slash snake and let them crawl or slither up your arm? I think I'd rather poop my pants. You know, I was going to ask, like, could we learn more about the public situation? But honestly, I'd rather poop my pants. I'd rather poop my pants.

Yeah. Yeah. I'd be fine my pants. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be fine with that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. I would happily poop my pants. No icing in the Oreos.

This isn't a question, but she says, please give a shout-out to Mercy Hospital Fort Smith Outpatient Surgery Department, where everyone knows all about LGTC. My goodness. Oh, hello. Hello. They're like, stop.

They say stop now. Oh, Scotch Off wants to know, if you were going to start doing yoga, would you do goat yoga, hot yoga, paddleboard yoga? Why? And which do you think you'd never be okay with trying so i think this is interesting because you have started yoga during our break i told you that during the break i would improve drastically and look at me i have her her foot is behind her head right now no i'm terrible at yoga. Well, I told you about my thing. So, like, there's this awesome yoga studio that they were doing, like, a new student special. So I was like, okay, I'll sign up.

And my first one, I'd never done yoga before. And I was like, okay, I'm going to do online. So I did online. Ten minutes in, I was like, I want to turn this shit off. But I had paid for it. Yes. So the Daryl Pitts in me was like, nope to turn this shit off but I had paid for it yes so the Daryl yeah the Daryl Pitts in me was like nope can't turn it off I did horribly I had the wrong leg up half

the time and then at one point she was like now if you want you know you can do this way or you can do it this way you know very yoga teacher modifying And I, in my first yoga class, where I was doing horribly, and I knew I was doing horribly, was like, I wonder what the more advanced one is. I want to do that. Which just proves how badly I need yoga. So, no, I've started going once a week, and I love it. That's awesome. I hated it at first.

Couldn't turn the old brain off. Yeah. Couldn't stop thinking about how I was the worst one at it. Now I've made peace with the fact that I'm the worst one in the room. It's fine. Namaste, bitches. No, but it really has helped to, like, clear the old noggin. Would you do goat yoga?

That seems like the goats would not enjoy it. No, the old noggin. Would you do goat yoga? That seems like the goats would not enjoy it. No, the goats love it. Why do the goats love it? I don't know. I don't think you know anything about goats. Yeah, exactly. Just saying the goats love it doesn't make it so.

I would also do hot yoga, but I worry about the scent. Yeah. Like, really worry. What? I know. I think there's, okay, if there was a Venn diagram of people who do hot yoga and people who use natural deodorant, it would be a lot of fucking overlap there. Okay.

I think you're right. And, like, you know how, like, every gym website is like, hey, please don't silly because like no one no one thinks, oh, I smell like an asshole. And if they do think that they don't care. So anyway, that would be my fear is like that could get real stinky real fast. I agree. I mean, you would obviously do goat jenga. You'd do goat jenga. You'd stack them goats up, take them out real carefully.

Would you ever do hot yoga? Okay, I think I would do it because I think I would feel very satisfied by it. Like, you know, I really got my sweat on without having to be like a high intensity thing. Okay, okay. Fair enough. I'd for sure do go, go, go, go. My mom is back in here and she said they are both choosing the poo option, no doubt. Oh, yeah.

Your mom knows her. I didn't really even have to think about it. I mean, I paused a little bit because it's embarrassing to be like, I'd shit myself. But that's it. Yes. Ooh. Have you seen Cruella? Did you watch Cruella?

No. We watched it. It was one of the things I picked to do for my birthday and I loved it. Emma Stone. Fabulous. Oh. So good. Wait is that the entirety of your review?

I really enjoyed it. You should review things. I had a great time watching it. I did think it was a little long. Oh, really? My attention span is not great. And I think it was two hours and 27 minutes long. Oh, that's too long.

Yeah. That's too long for a kid's movie. And I know you were the only adult in there. Yeah. We watched it at home. At home? At home. At home. Does that make you feel less creepy?

Yes. Thank you. The Widow Fox wants to know, did either of you ever go to Crumble and what did you get? Okay. I personally have not yet been to Crumble, but I've had two separate people bring me Crumble cookies. What the hell? What kind of life are you in? Yes, one of my clients brought me a Crumble cookie.

Doreen? No. No? Oh, okay. And she brought me the sugar cookie with the pink icing on it, and it was... That sounds amazing. It was so good. It was so good.

That breaks my heart. I love a pink icing. Okay. And then my sister Kim, who I work with at the salon. She owns a salon with me. Who? Stop it. That was for my list.

For my listeners. For our listeners. For my fans. I'm talking to my fans. Shut up. Jesus. For the listeners. Not for you.

Her true personality is coming out. She's a monster. She did like a surprise. Here's cookies for everyone to the salon one day. She bought a big party box of crumble cookies. I had a Butterfinger one. It was like a peanut butter cookie with a layer of chocolate on it. Oh, my God.

And then pieces of Butterfinger. You know what? I do not understand at all. What? Why people don't love Butterfinger. You know what I do not understand at all? What? Why people don't love Butterfinger. I know. Butterfinger's delicious. The nougat inside of it?

That is not like a nougat! It's not. No, that sounds like it was all the setup to a joke. I really do love Butterfinger. Nobody better lay a finger on my Butterfinger. Oh, SuperEquit wants to know who has the nicer couch. So, without a doubt, that is Kristen. I do?

Yes, because of my couch woes. Oh, someone has brought up a sore spot. Okay. All right. Oh, she's settling in, folks. Okay, you ready for a story? Okay. So, we moved, right? In preparation for our move, the living room size at our new house is very different from the living room size at our old house.

Our old living room was just oddly huge and just proportionately really weird for the house. Like, very large. So we had a very large sectional in it. Our new house is very open concept, floor plan. And so the living room's not as big. And then also a sectional won't work just because of how open it is. And so we had to go get new furniture for the living room. Had to.

This is like the most exciting thing that can happen. Yes, exactly. No, this is the most exciting thing that can happen to you. Okay. So, like, we locked down. You know, exactly. No, this is the most exciting thing that can happen to you. Okay. So like we locked down, you know, we're moving. This is where we're moving. And so David and I, oh my God, it's the best thing ever. We're like, we're going to go to Nebraska Furniture Mart and we are going to pick out

new furniture for the new house. And we walked in that fucking place like we owned it. We sat our butts on every couch they had. And we're like, oh, I don't know. Is this the perfect couch? Does it cut my cheeks perfectly? I don't know. I can't decide.

And so we went like on a Friday and we're like, let's sleep on it. Let's think about what we really want out of our couch. Our perfect, perfect couch. And so we went home and I'm like, OK, let me get online and see, you know, what they have in stock, what we can get, you know, in time for our move. What a fucking naive bitch I was. what a fucking naive bitch I was. Turns out that, you know, COVID happened and supply chains were interrupted and it impacted every industry

and you can't get shit for furniture at this current moment. So then I had to go on to Nebraska Furniture Mart's website. Actually, we went to a whole other furniture store to see if this was like. To see if COVID had also affected them. Turns out, yes, it has. Turns out it was kind of a global phenomenon. So then I went on to Nebraska Furniture Mart's website and I wrote down every couch that

kind of looked okay that we could get in time for our move. We had a very humbling experience where we walked back into Nebraska Furniture Mart and we're like, I don't know, is that one going to work? Would that one look okay in there? So I bought a couch that looks okay. And it's actually pretty comfy, but it was very cheap, and it probably will not hold up for very long. It was a desperation couch. It was a desperation couch. We needed somewhere to put our butts.

We also ordered two chairs. So we did a couch and two chairs. And so far, I only have one chair. You still only have one chair. I still don't have the second chair. So it was supposed to come in at the end of May. Oh, my God. And I got a call that said it was delayed to the middle of June.

And they've never called me again. Okay. When you told me about your furniture woes, I remembered Kyla's friend Ashton. Yeah. Like, she and her husband, like, I feel like they had, like, just moved into a new place. And they had, like, gotten this couch. Yeah. And, you know, then COVID.

And yada, yada, yada. I'm pretty sure they were in, like, lawn chairs for a very long time in the living room. Yep. So we're lucky that we did the day we moved in. We got a couch and a chair delivered. Still waiting on that second chair. And my beautiful credenza. Your credenza, which Norman said was Italian for what?

TV stand. He was very helpful that day. He was. Yeah, I have a photo of the two of you laying on a bare mattress from the day that you moved. I treasure that photo of you and my husband. It's not at all strange. The two of us in bed together. In bed together.

Yeah, also, we're like fucking college students sleeping with our mattress on the floor right now because my bed was backordered. It finally came in, so we're putting it together this weekend, and I will no longer have a mattress on the floor right now because my bed was backordered. It finally came in, so we're putting it together this weekend and I will no longer have a mattress on the floor. You're getting too fancy for me. Moving on up like the Jeffersons. Talking about your fans. Stop it. Getting your mattress off the floor.

Temple of Hymen wants to know, Kristen, have you watched Temptation Island? No, but I feel like I should. That sounds tempting. So back when reality TV was first a thing, there was the original Temptation Island. And I watched that. I remember. Oh, my God.

That was the one where like couples would come on and then like the guy would go off to a hot tub where some hot lady was like, I'm into you. And then like the girlfriend would watch from a secret footage camera and cry. Yeah, I remember that show. So this must be a reboot of that. I'm above that. You don't have time for any other shows now that you just watch Survivor all the time. Okay. So as you know, my parents are still living with us.

And the other day, you know, so I spend a lot of time in the basement watching Survivor. And it's fine. It's very cool. And the other day, my mom was like, how many seasons do you have left of Survivor? I still have a lot of seasons left. Yeah, there's a shit ton of seasons. Yeah, that's what I told her. And that says more about the number of seasons than about how long I've been watching it.

Because I've put in the time, let me tell you. Slow clap for dick ass. Slow clap for dick ass. How much do you regret eating that terrible popcorn salad instead of ordering special fruitcakes for a bonus video? Well, we did do special fruitcakes. We did do special fruitcakes one time. What was that place called? Collinsville. Your case, Kristen.

I know, but I remember nothing. That was the worst thing I've ever eaten. I don't think I can even talk about it. I can't talk about it. Blue Orchid wants to know what's it like having

more patrons than Noor? Oh! The shade! If he were alive he'd care. YouTube subscribers. We could not hang on the YouTubes. Oh, my God.

YouTube hated us. Hated us. I mean, we're not ready for every platform, evidently. That's right. The people of YouTube, we put it out there, and they responded. Babababalloonboy wants to know, were you able to decompress and did you miss us? Yes and yes.

It was so nice to have a break and really necessary because life has been crazy over this. You moved, you had a birthday, your daughter had her first birthday. Yes. Sold my house. Oh my god, yeah, you sold your house. It was crazy, but yes, oh. You sold your house. Yeah. It was crazy.

But yes. Oh, my gosh. I missed it so much. We missed all of you. And I missed you. Me? You. It is funny because like you realize, I mean, like with any adult friendship, you don't

get together that often. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, yeah, I'm sure we're going to see each other a ton. We saw each other like a bit. Yeah. Not a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, yeah, I'm sure we're going to see each other a ton. We saw each other like a bit. Yeah, but not a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So we got to keep doing this podcast to keep the friendship alive.

That's right. Oh. Oh. Do you have one? Gadriel asks, got any scandalous high school gossip? It's finally been long enough that you can share. Do you have any? Well, I mean, we do have stuff, but like we really can't tell.

The dickhead who got arrested for domestic violence. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Somebody who was a super douche. Yeah. A douche to both of us. Yeah. Somebody who was a super douche. Yeah. Yes. A douche to both of us. Yes.

Then as an adult was shockingly arrested for domestic violence. Yeah. Weird. Seems like he had some trouble with the ladies. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. That guy was a douche.

Well, it's just so funny because you think of, I don't know, I think in high school I had this idea that, like, we all change a lot. We grow up a lot. But honestly, some people, if you went to elementary school, middle school, high school, you know them pretty well. People don't change that much. I really don't think they do. So, yeah, some of these people, it's like, hmm. Not that surprising how they turned out. Now a middle-aged douche.

Once a douche, always a douche, as I like to say. I like to say that a douche can change its stripes. You know what I think we should do? Supreme Court inductions. I think so. Should we tell the people how to get inducted on this very podcast? The way you...

Oh, God, we didn't really plug the Patreon. No, not at all. Boy. Boy. Boy. Here's the deal, gang. If you want more of us, it's all on Patreon.

That's right. All you gotta do is go to LGTC podcast. No, patreon.com slash LGTC podcast. And once you're there, you can sign up at the $5 level. That'll get you a monthly bonus episode, plus into the Discord to chitty chat the day away. At the $7 level, that's the Supreme Court. You get all that, plus you get inducted into this podcast. You get a sticker and a card with our lovely autographs.

And as Brandi signs, she says, this is for my audience. And then at the $10 level, that's the Bob Moss level. You get all that, plus you get your episodes a day early. And you get them ad free. Also, 10% off on merch. The list is endless

except it's not because it just ended. Alright, we are continuing to read your names and your favorite cookies. Cookies. Kayla Tucker. My Aunt Snowbakes. Neve.

My Fiancee Emily's Peanut Cookies. Karen Barnt. Cinnamon Roll Cookies. Pam. Snickerdoodles. I really love that Pam told us how to pronounce her name. Lynn Feather. Warm Toll House.

Hiba Anderson. Lynn Feather. Warm Toll House. Hiba Anderson. My Fiance's Famous Norwegian Chocolate Brownie Cookies. Oh, okay. Helen Brighton. Shortbread. Veronica Harrison. The Raspberry Cheesecake Cookie from Subway.

We are sleeping on Subway cookies. I know, but... Did you ever hear about the tuna thing? Did you hear about... Jared, no. They got far too little tuna in their sandwiches and way too many pedophiles on their staff. The ratio is just off, frankly. Ryan Hamill. Double stuffed Oreo.

That's too much stuff. No, wrong. It's just enough stuff. That's too much stuff. No, wrong. It's just enough stuff. That's too much. Savannah Corner. Soft baked chocolate chip cookies that only your middle school lunch lady knows how to cook. Oh, I know exactly what she means. Krista Smith.

My chocolate chip cookies using my partner's mom's recipe. Wendy Frederick. Any cookies except oatmeal raisin. Oh, my. Oh, my. Tim Tam's classic version. Karen. Chips Ahoy cookies in the blue bag, not the red. Why are you nodding?

I don't like the red bag. Do they taste different? Yeah, the reds are the chewies. Oh. The blues not the red. Why are you nodding? I don't like the red bag. Do they taste different? The reds are the chewies. The blues are the classics. I like the classics as well. Jenny Storm. You know what I like about the chewies? Kind of like a cashew that's been

left out. Stop it! Jenny Storm! Chocolate chip from Tiff's Treat jp martinez jp martinez put a exclamation point after their name so i had to say it like that you did you had no choice oreos that get soggy from sitting in milk all right alicia p milk bar peanut butter cookies kenzie b the cookie recipe off the back of nestle chocolate chips with a cup of crushed up cinnamon toast crunch or crunched up pretzels and caramel nuggets tossed in. Is that too much happening? I don't know.

I think it sounds pretty good. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. We'll have to study this and get back to you. Robin Fredbergill. Oatmeal butterscotch chip. That's called an oatmeal scotchy, ma'am. Please.

Oh, wow. Robin, we're going to tell you how to enjoy it, too. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Woo. Woo. Thank you, all of you, for all of your support. We are happy to be back. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media.

We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen, and then head on over to Apple Podcasts, leave us a rating, leave us a review, and then be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. You know what I forgot to say? The bitch is back and so am I. And now for a note about our process.

I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from an episode of Vengeance Killer Lovers titled Secret Lives and Alibis. And I got my info from an episode of Dateline, an episode of Snapped, ChillingCrimes.com, an article for Oxygen, and IowaColdCcases.com. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. Woo!

Woo, doggies!