Let's Go To Court! - 178: An Old Timey Meghan Markle & A Possession

Episode Date: July 14, 2021

Ready for some old timey Meghan Markle vibes? Unfortunately, America has its own homegrown case. Back in the day, the Rhinelander name was synonymous with success. The Rhinelanders were as wealthy as they were well connected. They were American royalty. But the Rhinelander family was rocked by scandal when Leonard “Kip” Rhinelander had the audacity to fall in love with a working class woman of color named Alice Jones.  Then Brandi tells us a story that, on the surface, seems pretty straightforward. On February 16, 1981, Arne Cheyenne Johnson killed Alan Bono. That can’t be debated. But what can be debated is why Arne killed Alan. According to Arne’s defense attorney, the murder wasn’t Arne’s fault. The devil made him do it. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Rhinelander v Rhinelander: The 1920s Race & Sex Scandal You’ve Never Heard Of,” by Melina Pendulum on YouTube The Ted Talk, “Challenge your biases, America. Make fairer laws: Angela Onwuachi-Willig at TedxDesMoines” “When one of New York’s glitterati married a ‘quadroon,’” by Theodore R. Johnson III for NPR “Love and race caught in the public eye,” by Heidi Ardizzone and Earl Lewis for Notre Dame News “The Rhinelander Affair,” by Carlyn Beccia for HistoryofYesterday.com “Leonard “Kip” Rhinelander Trial,” by Barbara Behan for BlackPast.org “What interracial and gay couples know about passing,” by Angela Onwuachi-Willig for The Atlantic “Rhinelander v. Rhinelander,” entry on Wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “By Demons Possessed” by Lynn Darling, Washington Post “The Twisted Murder Trial Of Arne Cheyenne Johnson, The Man Who Claimed To Be Possessed By Demons” by Marco Margaritoff, allthatsinteresting.com “'The Conjuring 3': The True Story Behind 'The Devil Made Me Do It’” by Samuel Spencer, Newsweek “What Really Happened With Arne Cheyenne Johnson's 1981 'The Devil Made Me Do It' Trial?” by Kevin Dolak, oxygen.com “Brookfield man sues over 'demon' book” The News-Times “Trial of Arne Cheyenne Johnson” wikipedia.org YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 19+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about an old-timey Megan Markle and I'll be talking about a possession.

New by Calvin Klein. Doesn't that sound like a... It does. Yeah, like some troublingly thin woman is like rolling around in a position. So basically me right now. Yeah. After I ate all that pasta

everyone brandy what tell them what happened brandy i had a delicious piece of bread i had very like diligently put the exact right amount of butter on it. I had taken my time. It was like watching Monet at work. I mean, really. And then I went to take a bite of it, and I dropped it on the fucking floor. You should have seen the disappointment on her face.

She was in the middle of telling a story. She had buttered that thing to perfection. Perfection. So then she was stuck with the butt of the bread story. She had buttered that thing to perfection. Perfection. So then she was stuck with the butt of the bread, which some people call it the heel, but not me. It was still pretty good. Yeah, but, you know. Yeah. Then you had to deal with me laughing at you.

Yes. And then I also had to pick up my bread off the floor. Quite good of you. Quite good of you. You didn't have to eat it, though. I didn't eat it. Listen, after last week's episode, David thought I really got my vag rejuvenated over the break. As if we took a break so that I could go get my vag rejuvenated.

Which, like, would it really take a month to rejuvenate? Well, I guess it depends on the vag. Maybe it would. How loose was your vag before? Well, I mean, it's still the same. Like, there's been no actual change. So David heard the new episode, last week's episode, and he came. He had, like, listened to it during the day at work, and he came downstairs last night, and he was like, hey, did Kristen really get something done to her vagina?

And I just started laughing. I laughing i was like no of course not and he was like well you were very convincing the truth is i got it vajazzled remember when that was a thing yeah yeah you know your fancy haircut and your diet colors and put some jewels on there. We both saw real sex. Seen that episode of Real Sex. We know all. Ask us anything. All right.

All right. You know what we got to do now? What? We got to plug our own business. That sounds like. I'm sorry. Brandy, get your Diva Cup and plug your own business. You still have not tried the Diva Cup, correct?

No, I can't do it. There are so many things you say you can't do. Everyone, I wanted Brandy to accompany me to a vegan restaurant. You 100% knew there was not a chance in hell I was going there. No, I didn't. No, I didn't. I was really like, maybe if I'm like, come on, it's one time. Okay, yeah, if you were like, please, would you please?

I would go, and I told you what I'd order. That smoothie. Wait, are you saying that if I said to you, please, please, will you go, you would go? Yeah. All right. Next week for lunch. Brandy, please, please, will you go? And will you order an entree?

I'm going to be double fisting smoothie. Will you order an entree? And whatever you to be double fisting smoothies. Will you order an entree? And whatever you, yeah. Everything has cashew cheese on it. It's not bad. I know what you're not saying. It's delicious. Listen, I've got five yoga classes under my belt and I am full hippy dippy.

That's what's happened. Anyway, this was all. Yeah, we're supposed to be talking about our Patreon. We sure are. So. You know what we've done some real exciting things on patreon lately have we mostly just like normal stuff like we did a bonus episode our bonus episode quite good yeah meaty boy as well well over two hours well over two. You want to hear about a hate crime where a white guy gets it. Men.

If that's your thing, that's what I covered. This is not very good. You have to admit that's unique. Yeah. A hate crime where the white guy gets it. You're right. You're right. You're looking for something a little different.

I really want to mix it up with your hate crimes. Some cashew cheese. Yes, this is a cashew cheese with hate crimes. And what did you cover, Brandy? I don't remember. Are you serious? Anyway, Brandy covered a mystery case. It was very good.

What was it? I don't remember either. I was trying to make fun of you. I seriously have no memory. It was a murder. I mean, odds are, right? Yeah. Oh!

Was it a murder? Or was it a hit and run? Okay. Okay, it's one of these. It's one of these. One of these. One of those murders with a question mark at the end. Except there's no question mark. It was for sure a murder.

It's exclamation point. Anyway, ruin that. Also, we've started doing Zoom Hangouts. Live Hangout. $5 level. You get the bonus episodes. You get into the Discord to cheat chat the day away. If you want in on the Zoom Hangouts, that's $7 a level.

That'd be at the $7 level. You gotta pony up the cash. With that, though, you get a sticker. You get our autographs. You get inducted on this very podcast. And then, at the $10 level. I was going to say, well, that's not enough for you. And it's probably not.

Got the Bob Moss level. That entitles you. Yes, you. You get our episodes. What do you get? You get them a day early and you get them ad free. Also 10% off merch. Man, man.

We're a little rusty, as they say. Rusty coots? What? Oh, yeah, that's a guy's name. Okay, I'm sorry. The first base coach of the Royals. Yeah. I was like, what'd you call me?

It's spelled like Kuntz, guys. But it's pronounced Kuntz, I swear. Do you get it? You get it? Everybody get it? Everybody picking up what I'm putting down? Tell us about an old-timey Meghan Markle. Do you know anything about this?

No. I'm very excited. No, and you called dibs on it like I was supposed to know what the fuck it was. And I was just like, yeah, cool. Do you think I know what the... You've got your douchebag white murder guys and you say their names as if we know them like they're presidents or something. Anyway, a huge thank you to PM Weeks for suggesting this case in the Discord. Old timey disclaimer.

Also, we don't normally do trigger warnings, but I'm making an exception here just because this involves like a super rich, super privileged white guy marrying a biracial woman. And I'd hate for any members of the royal family to be casually listening to this podcast and get triggered wonderful so charles if you're listening and we know you are obviously huge fan of the podcast uh please fast forward to brandy's case also i feel i should tell you that when pm weeks suggested this case she called it american kind of megan markle energy old-timey edition and she is right so that's what we're going with also when she suggested it she was just very casually like oh you know i i did a youtube video about this i thought it was interesting maybe you'd like to do... Didn't name her channel. Didn't give any more details.

But you know what I have? Google? I have a Google machine, Brandy. So let me tell you a little bit. Here we go. She has a YouTube channel. I subscribed. I thought it was really good.

Where she talks about, quote, pop culture, race, feminism, and other social issues with a lot of nuance and profanity. That sounds amazing! It is. The channel is Melina Pendulum, and she's also on Patreon at patreon.com slash princess weeks.

There's an extra E in there. W-E-E-K-E-S. Anyway, she didn't ask for the shout outs, but too damn bad. Melina. We're giving them anyway. Yeah. PM weeks. And if you really want to get her real mad, go and support her on Patreon.

That's right. Subscribe to her Patreon, okay? Also, shout outs to an NPR article by Theodore Johnson III. Oh, God. And article in The Atlantic by Angela Onwachi-Willig. Okay, hang on. Wow. Hold up.

By Angela Onwachi Willig, I think. Okay, sure. And Wikipedia. Excellent. The year was 1686. What? And Philip Jacob Rhinelander emigrated to New York. Why do you have that face?

1686. Is it too old-timey for you? It's very old-timey. Just hang in there, buddy. And you know something? Philip, he was a business cat. He bought a property, and his family built ships, and they started a real estate company,

and the money piled up, and their status skyrocketed. Soon, the Rhinelander name was on the tips of everyone's unscraped tongues. What does that mean? You don't have a tongue scraper? Oh, like brushing your teeth. Okay, I get it. No, it's not brushing. It's like a...

Yeah, you do that. Do you think they did that back in the day? No, I don't think they did either. I don't think they brushed their teeth. Oh, they had to do something. Maybe they didn't. I don't think dental hygiene was quite as popular as it is these days. I agree.

It's gone up real popular, like the keto diet, you know? As the generations passed, the Rhinelanders were always in the room where it happened. One of them married a Hamilton. One of them became president of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. One of them served as an officer under General George Washington. Oh my gosh. Here comes the general. Rise up. Okay, little known fact, George Washington actually later became president of the United States of America.

His teeth were made of wood because he didn't have a tongue scraper. Another fun fact. The United States of America is where we are located right now. That is a fun fact. A lot of people get the majority of their education from this podcast. From this podcast. Those people are stupid. Here's a little story about what a big deal the Rhinelanders were.

Do you hear that? Is that the rain? Yeah, it's pouring outside, I think. I was afraid it was like... Feedback? No, I'm pretty sure that's the rain. I was afraid it was like... Feedback? No, I'm pretty sure that's the rain.

I mean, have you ever seen the rain? I want to know! Have you ever seen the rain? Okay. Here's a little story about what a big deal the Rhinelanders were. In the late 1800s, Pelican Rapids, Wisconsin, changed its name to Rhinelander, Wisconsin. Well, I mean, it's easier to say the Pelican Rapids. Now you may be asking yourself, Brandi, why the hell did they do that?

They were in Wisconsin. The Rhinelanders were in New York. They had no real connection to Wisconsin. They didn't summer in Wisconsin. Well, I guess, I don't know. Brandy, we don't even know if they enjoyed a good hard cheddar. But none of that mattered. The reason the people of Rhinelander, Wisconsin changed their name to Rhinelander was just in the hope that Friedrich Rhinelander, who was then the president of Milwaukee, Lakeshore and Western Railroad, whatever, would be like, oh, my God, you guys changed your town's name to my name.

I'm so flattered. Thank you so much. You know what? I think I'll extend my railroad to your town. And eventually he did. I think that's a good tactic. I knew you would think that. Okay. Okay.

When, I'll tell you a little story. Okay. About when Google was trying to figure out where they were going to do their Google fiber test. Okay. Where were they going to put in this innovative new internet that they had come up with? Mm-hmm. In the running was a little town called Topeka, Kansas.

Mm-hmm. Do you know what they did? What, change their name for one day? Change their name to Google for a day. Okay. I knew you would tell that story. And, you know, you're actually the first one to tell me the Rhinelander story. What?

Yeah, you told me this story like a million years ago. What? Okay, I could have sworn you told me this story like in 2001, and that's the reason why in 2001 you changed the name of your vagina to Lance Bass. Stop it. Am I wrong? Just enough? Oops.

Lance Bass would extend his penis into my vagina? Do you write that down in there? Yes. When you started talking about fucking Google and Topeka, I was like, oh, no, how do I get back? How do I get back? How do I get back? Here's the truth. I thought of that joke yesterday

and I laughed so hard. I thought of it again today and I laughed so hard again and I thought, honestly, if we ever get to do a live show and I come up with something like that, I will jump off stage and give high fives to everyone in the audience

because they will want to. They'll be like, that was amazing. Brandy's vagina. Lance Bass. When you go in for a wax, will you please say you want to wax your Lance Bass? Just here to get my Lance Bass waxed. Anyway, but Rhinelander, Wisconsin has very little to do with the case at hand, so I wish you'd stop bringing it up. The point is that the Rhinelanders were a big deal.

They were American royalty. But with great power comes great responsibility. where people had all the money in the world, all the connections, but also, unfortunately, all the sticks jammed right up their tight little b-holes. And it was this exact situation, with splinters breaking off into the Rhinelander family's balloon knots, that Leonard Kip Rhinelander was born. knots that Leonard Kip Rhinelander was born. The look on your face was as if someone splintered your balloon knot.

And you said, careful, don't get too close to Lance Bass! Kip was born in 1903 to Adelaide and Philip Rhinelander and there's no easy way to say this. Okay, hang on. Okay.

Adelaide tragically died on September 11th, 1915, when an alcohol lamp exploded in her bedroom. Wow. Never forget. Christ. Okay, I don't... Sounds like an inside job if you ask me. That lamp was made with steel beams. Okay, but for real, an alcohol lamp?

What is that? Like an oil lamp, I guess? I'm just saying, like, I'm not a very smart man, but I could tell you don't want to have an alcohol lamp anymore than you want to have a paper lamp. Right? Anyway, years passed. Kip was very shy. Anyway, years passed. Kip was very shy.

In fact, he was so shy and had such a severe stutter that when he was about 18, he went to the Orchard School in Stanford, Connecticut, which was basically just an inpatient clinic where he would work on becoming an extrovert and speaking with all the eloquence of a really hot podcaster. Stop talking about me like that. How dare you. But while he was there, in the fall of 1921, something unexpected happened. Kip fell in love. He fell in love with a woman named Alice Beatrice Jones. And you may be thinking, oh, love.

Love is nice. Everyone deserves love. Good for them. But you're wrong because there's something you should know about Alice. What? She was black? Hold on, hold on, hold on, because we're just going to ease right into this. Okay.

Okay. Everybody get comfortable. Alice came from the type of family, and I'll go slow because not many people can relate to this, where they would get up every day and they would go to work. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Yeah, I know. It's horrible. You see,

they worked for a living. They were working class. Oh no. Disgusting! Oh, the humanity! But wait, there's more!

Oh no. Also, she wasn't white. Oh no! Her mom was white and her dad was of mixed race. So, are we all scandalized? Yes, heavily scandalized. She was just like a normal person. No.

Alice worked as a chambermaid and she was a woman of color and Kip was a super wealthy white guy with a Hitler mustache but this was like before Hitler went and ruined that look so we shouldn't judge too much question for you are there any facial hairstyles or just styles in general that you wish

a terrible person would wear and then no one can wear them again um gosh because you think about that hitler did that now nobody's wearing that toothbrush mustache anymore also it's a terrible look so i'm glad yes yeah nobody calls it the chaplain mustache you sure don't chaplain famously hated hitler good thing to be known for anyway. Okay, but let's, you know, okay. For me, soul patch.

Oh, yeah. Can we get a dictator with a soul patch? Just throwing it out there to anybody. Whenever anybody says dictator, I just picture a potato shaped like a dick. anybody says dictator, I just picture a potato shaped like a dick. What?

Now you've ruined that word for me. Dictator. Oh, no. I love that. Because how often is it that you're like, hey, don't say that about that guy he was a good dictator no okay so he had the hitler stash but we'll set judgment aside and just leave all the judgment to the rheinlander family don't worry they're great at it okay as soon as kip's father, Philip, found out about Kip's relationship with Alice,

Philip lost his shit. But in a really cool, dignified way. I'm sure. Philip went to Kip and was like, hey, son, I've got a great idea. Possibly my greatest idea yet. Why don't you go on a trip? A nice vacay. Haven't you always wanted to go to Bermuda for like two years?

So Philip sent Kip on a like two-year-long chaperone trip, just like circling the globe, hoping that Kip and Alice would eventually break up. But they didn't. Wow. They stayed in contact. They wrote letters. They were in love.

So Philip gave up. He was like, fine, love is love. I stayed in contact. They wrote letters. They were in love. So Philip gave up. He was like, fine, love is love. I get it now. No, he didn't. No. That's a hilarious joke. Instead, after that trip ended, he was like, you know what, Kip? I'm going to send you to a private school in Arizona.

But that didn't kill the relationship either. They kept writing letters. They fell deeper in love. And finally, when Kip turned 21, he got a payout from his trust fund. Relatable. And he was like, fuck Arizona. And he moved back to New York to be with Alice. By this point, he and Alice had been dating for like three years.

By this point, he and Alice had been dating for like three years. They knew they wanted to get married, but they also knew the risks that were involved. Kip's family didn't approve on account of all the sticks up their butts. And in all likelihood, neither would the general public on account of the sticks up their butts. Also, OK, some accounts say that Alice's dad also warned against it, but it was more like, I'm concerned about my daughter. I'm concerned she will never be accepted into this family. You know, all that stuff. Yeah. But Alice and Kip didn't want to let other people's opinions run their lives.

let other people's opinions run their lives. So on October 14th, 1924, Kip and Alice got married in a super hush-hush ceremony at City Hall. I really struggled over that. Hush-hush ceremony. Shush. Shush. Shush. Kip didn't tell his family he'd gotten married.

Have you ever met anyone who does this? I knew someone once who got married and didn't tell his family he'd gotten married. Have you ever met anyone who does this? I knew someone once who got married, didn't tell her family. No, I don't think I've ever known anybody who did. It's a wild time. It is a wild time. See, now that was so lame to bring up because I can't tell the story. Right, obviously. Anyway, that's why you tune in.

Great stories like that. Sorry, everyone. There was no engagement announcement, no wedding announcement. And of course, under normal circumstances, when a Rhinelander got married, all the newspapers would have run big stories. This would have been huge news. American royalty was getting married. You guys hearing this thunder? Yeah, that was thunder.

We only record when it storms down, apparently. Okay, but I kind of hate to mention the weather because it seems like the one time we ignore it, then you can hear it and people are like, what's that? The one time we mention it, we sound like... You don't want to hear anything. Not so. But Kip and Alice didn't want to open their relationship up to public scrutiny. They paid reporters not to write about their wedding. Wow.

They laid low. They planned to move to New Rochelle. Or New Rochelle. Where the fuck is that? It's in New York. Okay. It's where the fancy people were living. Fancy people.

Different from people. Yeah, they're so fancy they get an extra. That's right. In the meantime, they moved in with Alice's parents in their modest home. So Kip and Alice were, like, just starting their life together. You look so sad right now. Are you going to be okay? No, I'm good.

Yes. Okay, okay. Yes. But people talked. Word got out about their marriage. People talked. Word got out about their marriage. Soon, a reporter from the New Rochelle Standard Star began looking into the story.

The reporter discovered that Alice wasn't white. Yeah. Oh, big news, Brandi, big news! Oh, no. The Rhinelanders tried threatening the newspaper's editor, but the threats didn't work. And about a month after Kip and Alice got married, the newspaper printed a front-page story under the headline,

Rhinelanders' Son Marries Daughter of Colored Man. Instantly, reporters swarmed the home. Yeah. There was this obsession with Alice's race and her father George's race. What were they exactly? Human beings? Wrong. That's not the answer we're looking for.

We needed to know exactly what was going on race-wise. Was George West Indian? Was he black? And if so, how black was he exactly? Like, give me the fraction so I can run it in the paper. Oh my goodness. At the time, there were all kinds of terms for defining exactly how black a person was. Were they mulatto, a quadroon, an octoroon? Wouldn't it be great if these were all the names of fancy cookies instead of stupid racist terms? No kidding.

By the way, I don't plan to define any of these terms because they're deeply stupid. But I'm including them to give a sense of like the obsession with like categorizing and labeling people. with like categorizing and labeling people. So the sort of funny thing, and by funny, I mean not at all, is that for all this talk about like race fractions, none of it really mattered. Because around this time, white douchebags and really like the entire justice system were very much in love with the one drop rule. The fuck is that? Have you ever heard of this? No.

Okay, it's the rule that if you have one drop of colored blood, obviously air quotes everyone, then you are black. Oh my gosh. Wouldn't that make everyone black? Yeah! One drop? One drop?

So anyway. P.S. This all comes from a Wikipedia series on discrimination. Ah, shaggy! You can imagine. So any hoodle, some newspapers were like, OMG, Kip Rhinelander married a black woman. But other newspapers were a little more sneaky with it because that was such a serious charge. They didn't come out and state what they thought Alice's race was, but they did other things like say, oh, her dad is a cab driver. Her uncle's a butler. She was a nanny.

Which is a little like saying we're not going to tell you Kristen's race, but we can say that she can't dance. She drives a Subaru and her dad wears bright white $15 tennis shoes. So you tell me. By the way, I thought I'd have to think really hard about like, what are the white things that I do? Everything. So you get the idea. This story was like scandalous.

So I've struggled with what terms to use here. I'm using colored some just because that was the word that was often used at the time. It just gets gross and dicey

and all that stuff. So bear with me basically. So this stuff all comes... Good thing racism is no longer an issue. No kidding. Cut that all squared away. That's right. If you listen to Lindsey Graham, racism, not a problem in America.

Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Nope. When does he think we wrap that up? Has that fella seen the news? So, you know, all this stuff comes out and Kip stayed strong. He was like, this is bullshit. I love my wife.

Please leave us alone. But then things changed. Two weeks after the story broke, Kip Rhinelander turned out to be nothing more than a bag of trail mix filled with just dried fruit and M&M's. He was nutless, Brandy. Nutless. Turns out, his daddy was still really upset about Kip's marriage. All his rich friends knew about it. It was in all the papers. By Phillip's estimation, Kip had just taken a big steamy dump on the Rhinelander name. So Philip told Kip.

Nothing. You're so eloquent. Thank you. Thank you. I am the Grace Kelly of podcasting. I've heard that. I have heard that. So Philip told Kim.

From you. If you don't end this, I'm going to disinherit you. Oh, wow. And he was like, well, it's been real nice. Alice, glad we could spend these lovely few days married to each other. I fucking hate this. And I'm out. Mm-hmm.

Wow. It gets worse. Don't worry, it gets worse. Hang in there, it gets worse. Philip didn't just want Kip to end his marriage. He wanted the marriage erased. He wanted it to have never happened. So he had his lawyers draw papers for the marriage to be annulled. What do you think of annulments? Well, I think like fucking, yeah, you can't just erase life.

No, I agree. Now, if it's like, oh, we got drunk in Vegas. Yeah. Yeah, Brittany, and all that. But like, I'm sorry, these Catholic folks who've been married for 20 years, oh, and old. No, I don't know, man. And like, this guy was in a relationship. He managed to keep up a relationship with her while he was traveling the globe. Yeah.

Bullshit. Steamy. Creamy. Bullshit. Steamy. Creamy. Bullshit. In this document, the lawyers argued that poor little Kip had been deceived by a deceitful, deceiving, colored woman who was passing as white. She had tricked him, Brandy, because she was after his money, and he never would have married her if he'd known she wasn't white. And like a nutless little fuck, Kip signed the papers. I hate... Okay, a lot of sources are really nice to him.

I'm sure he had a tough time, but not as tough a time as Alice. Yeah. So, he's just a bag of trail mix. Yeah. With just dried fruit and M&M's. If you ask me. What? I mean, you can pick out the M&M's at least.

You should be a bag of a bag of trail mix without M&M's. Just dried fruit. Ew. Ew. Useless. And those little carrot squares. Nobody fucking wants those. Filler.

All the filler. This must have been devastating for Alice, but she didn't crumble. She looked herself in the mirror and she said, Let's go to court! And so the court battle over whether their marriage

could be annulled began. No, it fucking can't because this wasn't like an accidental oops thing. Yes, it was. No. Hold on, Brandy. No. She tricked him. No.

She tricked him. He fucking lived with her family. You never saw her dad? He's very dumb. He's very dim-witted, very socially. This was the argument. This is ridiculous. He's very dumb.

He's very dim-witted, very socially. This was the argument. He's stupid. Brandy, I don't think you've heard enough of Kip's side of the story. I don't fucking care about Kip's side of the story. You are talking about a rich white man, Brandy. A Rhinelander. Okay, so quick side note.

And I think this is stupid too. But anyway'm just gonna read it to you some sources say that after kip signed the papers he sent alice a secret note asking her to fight the case in the hope that if she successfully fought the case they could remain married and you know no one would be able to say shit anyway tell me your opinion upon that. I fucking hate it. Yeah, I bet that's not true. Okay, see, here's the thing. Let's say that is true. It's still nutless. You're still a nutless little fuck, Kip.

Yeah. Give me a break. You're the powerful, you're the multi-millionaire. Yeah. You can't stand up to your daddy. And I'm sorry, but you should have. I really wish you'd stop calling him his daddy.

I'm infantilizing him. It's a fun trick. No, I got really mad. Yeah. Today, this morning. Anyway. Yeah. Today, this morning.

I meant yesterday and this morning. Anyway, moving on. Just mad all over. Mad, mad. No, so I was thinking. So mad you don't even know what day it is. But, okay, if it's 1924 or, you know, whatever

year, when did Harry and Meghan get married? Anyway, you know what your family's like. Yeah. You know there's a chance that they will threaten you with disinheritance which is the whole reason you got married in secret what do you mean the whole reason he got married in secret is because he knew his family wouldn't

like the marriage and there was a chance they would disinherit him So you knew that there was a chance. Why not fight it now? Why put her through it? That's my thing. Why put her through it? If them disinheriting you was going to be enough to get you to walk away from the marriage, why do it? Exactly. Because he's, in your words, a nutless little fuck.

Thank you. You're welcome. It's like a squirrel with its little hands upturned, like, what? And its pockets pulled out. Nutless. That's Kip in this situation. Anyway, I say that, obviously, I can't keep my own bias out of this thing. A lot of people feel really sorry for Kip. And, yes, he's a victim, too, in his own way.

But, I mean, like, in the same way that, like, I got a paper cut and you broke your leg. I mean, give me a fucking break anyway. Okay, maybe if I... That's a very good analogy. Thank you. You're welcome. You know what I kept thinking today?

Was maybe there are a couple books on this and it's like well maybe if I'd read a whole book on this I would feel more compassion for him and I'm sure I would because you get more nuance

that way but I don't know right now he just seems like a squirrel with his little paws in the air just empty pockets the trial was a media sensation

it had everything. Race, sex, money, an all-white, all-male jury. Yay! For his side, Kip hired an attorney named Isaac Mills. And Isaac really painted a picture for the jury. He painted his own client as a dim-witted, socially awkward, naive young man. Yeah. Kip had just been- He didn't know what he was doing.

Poor boy doesn't know his ass from his elbow. You see, Brandy, Kip had been young and overly trusting, and Alice had been a gold-digging hooker with a heart as black as coal. Wow. That's not an exact quote, but you get the drift. During his opening statement, Kip's attorney paced in front of the jury, explaining Kip and Alice's relationship, and he paused, pointed at Kip, and said, quote, bear with me, gentlemen, for what we have before us is nothing but a bag of trail mix that's all dried fruit and M&M's. Nutless. Nutless, I tell you. And that's what he said. And then he paced some more. And then he pointed at Alice and said,

and over here is a sexy sex pot made of sex parts. And I know that sounds like a big exaggeration, but I've got some real quotes coming later, and they are so much worse than that. Kip's case was fucking horrible. He testified that Alice had misled him. She told him that she had dark skin because of Spanish ancestry, which I guess is fine. Yeah, I don't know. Spanish ancestry, which I guess is fine. Yeah, I don't know. His whole case was based on the idea that he had been tricked

into marrying a colored woman. Was that a burp? No. Was it a burp? Oh, sorry! I tried to stifle it! You just exploded everywhere! Just brandy chunks everywhere. Oh, God! You know, there's, um, I pass this business every now and then.

It's a crime scene cleaner. If I had brandy chunks everywhere, I think I'd call them up. Hey, come on in, boys. Got chunks of brandy. As far as the eye can see. There was brandy everywhere. As far as I can see. There was brandy everywhere.

So when Kip testified, his legal team tried to show that all he had ever wanted from Alice was sex. They'd had a whole bunch of premarital sex. He'd never planned to marry her. So he was taking a gun point to the courthouse? Yeah, basically. Stupid. This is about to get worse. Oh, good.

As evidence, they read aloud the most private, intimate sections of the love letters that Alice sent to him when they were apart. Yeah. Nice. Good shaming. Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah. At one point, Kip's attorney said that Kip had accepted Alice's relative poverty, her inferior social status, but could not tolerate, quote, the undying disgrace of an alliance with colored blood. That is where he drew the line. Okay. Okay. Now that's the worst quote ever. That's worse than the quotes I made up. Yes. Yeah. It's a real bad. The undying disgrace

of an alliance with colored blood. Oh. Yeah. Jesus. When it came time for Alice's side of the story, people expected her legal team to argue that she was white. I guess they just thought, like, why would you ever argue anything different? The argument is, I never lied about my race. He lived with my family. He has seen my father. He knows where I come from. So you've read this story.

Yeah. That's the case! He lived in my home with my family yeah he willingly went to the courthouse and married me we were in a three-year relationship before we got married that's the argument yes you don't have to say oh actually i'm white her attorney a man named lee parsons davis was like my client is not a white woman she knows it her family knows it her friends know it and you know who else knows it kip has always fucking known it fucking kip the netless wonder over there at one point alice's sisters took the stand and

they were like yep we have colored blood we've never denied it again that's their phrasing you know alice's attorney and her family did not describe themselves as negro it was more about having colored blood but the interesting thing about all this talk about race is that interracial marriage was not illegal in New York, which is kind of funny for the time. Yeah, it is. So it was frowned upon with the frowniest of frowns, but it was not illegal. So what this case all came down to was whether Kip had been duped into marrying her.

There was a ton of weird analysis like, but wait a second, how do Alice and her family carry themselves? How do they dress? Who do they associate themselves with? There was testimony from neighbors and other people who were asked to weigh in. That sounds so racist. Can you imagine? Let's see what stereotypes we can link to them.

Interestingly, newspaper accounts from the time almost always included a physical description of Alice. What she wore, what her skin tone was, how she conducted herself. I think very fascinatingly, sort of depended on what evidence was shown in court that day. So one day reporters said she had fair skin. Another day she was ebony. Another day she was slightly tanned. Well, that's quite a fucking range. That's a range.

That's a bigger range than most cosmetic companies offer. But what really mattered, what was at the core of this trial, was whether or not Alice had tricked Kip. Nope. Oh, did you miss the first part where she was the gold-digging whore and he was the naive young boy

who was just in it for sex? He didn't know. See Casper the Friendly Ghost? That's not how Casper sounds. You got like a little ghosty there at the end. Yeah. Okay, so one piece of... I'm sorry.

How did fucking Casper sound? I don't know, but I watched that movie a lot. Devon Sawa, Christina Ricci. He sounded more like a happy little kid, if I recall. Don't question me on this. I saw that movie a lot. We had it on VHS. I also had it on VHS.

Oh, did you? It came with the clamshell cases. Well, yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Same here. You think I had one of those crappy sleeves? No. I had the case. Mm, yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Same here. You think I had one of those crappy sleeves? No. I had the case.

So one piece of evidence seemingly in favor of this argument that like, oh, she tricked... Oh, sorry. I went into ghost mode and I got things reversed. Help me out, Casper.

Okay, so one piece of evidence seemingly in favor of that argument was the marriage certificate. On it, both of their races were listed as white. Okay, but what were the choices? I think you're asking the wrong question. Am I? Mm-hmm. Oh, is the right question who filled out the marriage certificate? Yes.

You're much closer. So on the stand when his attorney asked Kip whether the city hall clerk had specifically asked them if they were white, Kip said the clerk hadn't. Yeah. The clerk was just like, yeah, they look to be white. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So the clerk had just assumed. Alice's legal team's argument was that not only did Alice never deny her race,

but also Kip had to have known just by looking at Alice that she wasn't white. But how could Alice's attorney prove that Kip should have known Alice was black simply by looking at her? Yeah, I don't know. You want to take a guess? No. Yeah. Buckle up. Yeah.

This shit's about to go from bad to i was gonna say so much worse just racist stuff is coming i'm sure this okay i'm just gonna do it all right here we go i mentioned earlier that kip took the stand there was all this talk about all the sex he and alice had and on the stand alice's lawyer asked Kip whether he'd ever seen Alice's naked body. And, you know, of course he had. Yeah. He'd seen her naked body during sex. Had he seen her body in a room that had decent lighting? Yes, he had. And had Kip slept with Alice even after the news broke that she wasn't white? Yes, he had.

Okay, point made, right? Kip had seen her naked body in adequate lighting. Mm-hmm. Okay. At this point, Alice was taken into a bathroom, where she had to remove all of her clothes except her underwear and put on a long coat. And as she did this, she began to cry. Oh, yeah. Then, as had been negotiated by her attorney, she entered a room with the all-male jury.

Holy shit. The judge, her attorney, and was told to take off her coat. What the fuck? She cried again as she showed the men her breasts, her back, and her legs. Her attorney's argument was that her skin tone, Her attorney's argument was that her skin tone, and I guess the color of her nipples, revealed her race. She couldn't have possibly deceived Kip because Kip saw her naked body and it told the truth. Jesus. When this was all over, Alice sobbed uncontrollably. Her mom helped her get dressed and had to physically support her as they walked out of the courthouse. The judge had ordered that no reporters were allowed to be there during this demonstration.

How nice of him. Yeah. But, of course, that didn't stop them from writing about it, and it didn't stop the New York Evening graphic from recreating the scene with a topless model posing in a courtroom. This is the worst thing I've ever heard happen in a courtroom. Yeah, it's fucking terrible. She never took the stand. stand i mean this i think this is where i don't give a shit about kip yeah yeah she had to go get naked in front of a bunch of gross creepy dudes yeah who were gonna look at her boobs and decide what race she was yeah this trial lasted nearly a year oh my god right i mean what is there to fucking discuss

i mean obviously race but anyway it was very scandalous and talked about and there's a ton i didn't cover including when this dude al jolson who at the time was the most famous and highest paid celebrity at the time was called to testify. This is so stupid. OK, so they'd read all of Alice's love letters, right? There's like hundreds of love letters. And in one, I guess she mentioned that Al Jolson was a flirt. Like she'd heard from someone that he was a flirt. So I assume Kip's legal team was like, oh, this big slut.

She's like banging everybody. So the most famous celebrity at the time came to testify and be like, yeah, no, we never had an affair. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. By the way, super fun fact. At the time, he was known as the world's greatest entertainer, but now he's known as the king of blackface performers. Okay, then. So I went down the rabbit hole today.

I had to. His most popular tunes were Mammy and some other, like, something Dixie. So then I was like, uh-oh, I can't stop. So then I went over to YouTube and of course somebody has uploaded some of that stuff. It, oh my God, it's the cringiest shit you've ever seen. Cringier than that though is you go check out the comments section.

I can't, I can't handle comments. Yeah, don't. I recommend you don't. A lot of people being like, but what about all the good he did? No. Oh, boy. Okay.

Anyway, at some point, this shit show had to end, and it did. On December 6th, 1925, the jury found in favor of... Kip. Wrong. Really? Alice. Thank goodness. Kip Reindlender could not have an annulment his marriage to alice was valid this was wild a working-class woman of color had fought a legal battle against a family

of white multi-millionaires and won wow kip like the douchey douchebag that he was Wow. Wow. Honestly, like the most upsetting thing to me is it does seem from some of the analysis that i read that like her going and getting naked was came down to yeah jesus that's fucking terrible are you ready for something worse there's worse stuff yeah so after this kip's family disowned him, and he wasn't allowed to go to the white rich guy clubs because he was shunned. Oh, no. I don't feel bad for him. No, but think about it. He used to be able to go to the clubs, and now he can't go to the clubs.

Cool. It's really sad. Yeah. So he moved out to Nevada. He didn't tell anyone his real name. He went by Lou Russell, and he became a woodcutter. He changed his appearance a bit. I believe this was actually when he got the Hitler stash.

Oh. Changed it to the Hitler stash. That's an interesting change. Somebody also said that he put on weight, but it's like, well, maybe that wasn't like some secret disguise. Maybe he's just like me and like when he's sad, he likes some Pop-Tarts. They didn't have Pop-Tarts back then. I think they had, you know, pastries. All right.

Pastries. There we go. Toaster pastry. You heat them up over the alcohol lamp. I'm sorry. That's rude. That's rude. Watch out for explosions.

So eventually in 1929, a reporter found him and wrote about Kip living in secrecy in Nevada. And it was there that Kip was granted a divorce by default. But by this point, Alice had already filed a separation lawsuit against him in New York. She charged him with abandonment and she'd pressed charges against his father, Philip, for interfering with her marriage. And this suit wasn't nearly as dramatic as the previous one. It ended in a settlement. And in their settlement, Kip agreed to pay Alice $32,500 up front, adjusted for inflation, $525K, plus $3,600 every year for the rest of her life, adjusted for inflation, $58K. Okay.

By the way, that figure was never adjusted for inflation over the course of her life. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say, okay, so I was talking about this with Norman. He was like, hey, that figure was never adjusted for inflation over the course of her life. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say, okay, so I was talking about this with Norman. He was like, hey, that sounds pretty good. It's not good when you consider how much they had. Yeah. This is like just the teeniest.

It's not even a 1%. Yeah. Also, my God. Think of what this woman went through. 100%. Yeah. Also, my God, think of what this woman went through. In exchange, Alice agreed to forfeit all claims to the Rhinelander estate. She agreed to never use the Rhinelander name.

She agreed to not speak publicly about what happened. She agreed to never write about what happened. So that was it. Kip and Alice's marriage was over. There was nothing more to say. that was it. Kip and Alice's marriage was over. There was nothing more to say. Kip never remarried and reportedly never fell in love again. He died from pneumonia in 1936 when he was 34. Wow. Yeah. The Rhinelander family was of course like, oh no, I'm so sad about Kip dying. By the way, does this mean we still have to pay Alice?

Yeah, what does it mean? Well, their family attorney was like, yeah, you definitely do, you awful people. Like, it's for the rest of her life. But then, four years later, Kip's douchey dad, Philip, died. And that meant that Kip's sister, Adelaide, inherited all that sweet, sweet money. And so did a couple nieces and granddaughters. And even though there was way more than enough money to go around,

and even though Alice's alimony was minuscule in comparison to the Rhinelander estate, fucking Adelaide was like, no, we're not paying anymore. Mm-mm, it's too much. But Alice was like, oh, fuck that. The fuck you want? Mm-hmm. So she looked herself in the mirror again,

and she said, let's go to court. This legal battle lasted two years, and this time, I know, this time no one got naked in a court of law, which I think we can all agree is real progress. The case went all the way to the New York Supreme Court! And the New York Supreme Court was like, Rhinelanders, more like wronglanders.

That doesn't work. Nope. Get the hell out of here. Pay Alice her money. And so the Rhinelanders did, but it was very hard for them because I don't know if I mentioned this before, but they had so many sticks shoved up their butts. They were basically tree trunk in it. And so reaching for their wallets was really tough because branches would get in the way

and sometimes their arms would get cut up and it was just a real mess. Yeah, it sounds really tough. I feel bad for them. But, you know, they did pay Alice her money. And Alice always kept up her end of the deal. She never told her story to anyone. She never sold her story. And she never used the Rhinelander name.

Wow. She always went by her maiden name, Alice Jones. When she died at the age of 89 in 1989, she had never remarried and reportedly never fallen in love again. That's crazy. That means that she was born in 1900. Yes, Brandy. And even though she'd always followed the settlement agreement to a T, her gravestone says a lot about how she felt inside. Because her gravestone does not read Alice Jones. It reads Alice J. Rhinelander.

And that's the story of an old-timey Meghan Markle. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. Do you think he really loved her? I don't know.

I wish I knew more about this because, like, part of me wonders, was he truly just not that bright and was he just pushed around and you know i do think at a certain point in a trial it's like it's too late by the time we get to this awful stuff it's too late for him to put his foot down so maybe he was and maybe he was just way naive and optimistic about, like, we'll do this trial, my dad will lose, and we'll get back together. But I just feel very strongly that when you marry someone, assuming they're a good person, they don't turn out to be some abusive asshole it's your job to help ensure that your family treats them well yeah and if your family is being an ass to them yeah you don't let them duke out that battle on their own no absolutely yeah yeah man but doesn't that make you think of megan Harry? Oh, absolutely. And good on Harry for being like, fuck it, go to Canada.

Yeah. Talk about the opposite of Kip Rhinelander. I know. More like Kip Wronglander. More like Kip Rineskier, am I right? Rineskier, what? Skier, Lander. Oh.

Yours is worse than mine. And that's saying something. Oh, my. Oh, my. What did you think of that? I thought it was so interesting. Very interesting. That was great.

I'm sorry. That was basically fishing for a compliment. Did you like my story? I love your story. All right, Brandy, you're a professional ad doer. People are always asking us to do their ads. Constantly. So you're going to tell me about a possession, are you?

That's right. Do you know this case? No. This was another one where you sent me some name that I'm supposed to know. Okay, so like everybody and their mom has asked us to do this case recently. So shout out to everyone who has suggested this. I ignore all moms, which is why I won't be listening to this case. That's just rude.

Special shout outs to Lynn Darling for the Washington Post. Amazing article on this case that came out like in 1981 when this all went down. Lynn Darling. Thank you so much. I like that. Add some commas. I liked it. And an article for All That's Interesting by Marco...

Go for it. This is your moment. Magratov. Great. Thank you, Marco. Brookfield, Connecticut. Population 17,750. Located 43 miles northeast of New York City, Brookfield is home to lots of commuters.

So much so that the town's official Wikipedia page's Notable People section just says this. Partially due to Brookfield's close proximity to New York City, Brookfield has seen many notable residents ranging from famous golfer Gene Sarazin to Connecticut's 87th governor Jody Rell. Jody Rell! Jody Rell! Oh my god. Many finance and business executives also reside in Brookfield due to the centralization of investment firms and hedge funds.

I'm sorry, I fell asleep during the middle of that. As well as many Fortune 500 companies. I have never seen a notable people section that reads like this. No. It's like bullet points of names. Yes, yes. It seems a little defensive, frankly.

It does seem defensive. It's like, look, we've got a lot of important people. We've got lots of notable people, okay? So many that we can't even bother to list them. Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Okay, so many that we can't even bother to listen. Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It is also home to seven private country clubs and marinas.

Seven? Yes. It's not that big a place. It's not. And boasts several annual events, including a town Easter egg hunt, a Mother's Day 5K, and a film festival featuring shorts and foreign films. Okay, see, that's all normal to me. The seven country clubs.

Seven country clubs, that's a lot. That's the bougiest thing I've ever heard. Besides eight country clubs. Yes, very good. Thank you. Yeah. What Brookfield, Connecticut went its first 193 years without, though. Oh, my God.

I'm so sorry. What? I don't know if that was my stomach or my butt. Roll down the window. Okay, everybody, we have to pause. Norman and I took a road trip last week. And it was, so it was a drive to Colorado, which anyone who's done the drive from, like, Kansas City to Colorado knows there's, like like a long, boring section. Yeah.

And like we'd been in the car for like, I don't know, 11 hours and we were getting to the very end of it. And he goes, oh no, I've got to fart. And I was like, well, go ahead. So he farts and he just sits there and I was annoyed and I said, roll down the window. And he just sits there. And I was annoyed. And I said, roll down the window.

And then he snapped back at me and goes, I'll roll it down when I smell it. And not a moment sooner. I'm waiting for it to hit my nose. Anyway. Anyway. Anyway. What Brookfield, Connecticut went its first 193 years without, though, was a murder. But that all changed on February 16th, 1981, when Arnie Cheyenne Johnson stabbed Alan Bono to death. This is the true story behind the latest entry into the Conjuring movie series,

The Conjuring 3, The Devil Made Me Do It. I don't know any of these words. You don't? No. You saw The Conjuring. No, I didn't. What is that? I mean, it sounds spooky as hell. You never saw The Conjuring. No, I didn't. What is that? I mean, it sounds spooky as hell.

You never saw The Conjuring? Was Casper in that? I feel like you would have seen The Conjuring because it was a big movie and then you wouldn't have seen the sequel. Hang on. Let me check my Google machine, which is how I found Princess Weeks. There's a witch hanging in the tree. The Conjuring. Oh, hell no. No, no.

Oh, it's got a creepy little kid in it. No, absolutely not. Is it pretty scary? I mean, it looks terrifying. It's pretty scary. No, I did not see this film. Okay. Well, this is the third one in the series.

It just came out. And when it came out, everybody was like, hey, do this case. Here I am, doing it. I don't think anybody said that to me. They really know us. Oh, yeah, they said it to me. Yeah, no one was like, hey, Kristen, can you do the story of a possession, please? It was a cold day in February, February 16th.

Yeah, you mentioned that. In 1981, when it all happened. It was George Washington's birthday. A holiday of sorts. Fun fact, George Washington later became president of the United States. That's right. Also, fun fact, we are located currently in the United States. Do you have any fun facts?

No, you don't, because you're just drinking vitamin water like it's your germ. So, President's Day, whatever, it was kind of a holiday, but Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, Cheyenne to his friends. Some people called him Arnie. Some people called him Cheyenne. I don't know. All of the articles use the two names interchangeably. So I'm going to do the same thing.

Okay. He had called into work because everybody else was off that day. He worked for, as one article put it, a tree surgeon. Oh, my gosh. You love that. I love it. Specifically, right tree surgeon. Oh my gosh. You love that. I love it. Specifically, right tree service. He told them he had a sore throat. It was just a little bit of a fib. He felt fine. Fibby fib. But that day, his girlfriend, Debbie Glatzel, Glatzel, G-L-A-T-Z-E-L. I knew it just the way you said it.

E-E-L. I knew it just the way you said it. It flashed before me. Now, a question. Was he like a manager or was he like one of the guys who actually got up in the... He was one of the guys that climbed the trees and did the trimming. That looks like the most terrifying joke. Yeah, he had the claws on his shoes, you know, and he wore that big strap around. I know.

Every time I see a guy up there, I'm like, I'm going to witness... A death? Yes. Yes, that's what I think. I'm like, I'm going to witness. A death? Yes. Yes, that's what I think. I'm like, I'll call the cops. It's fine. Yeah. But they turn out fine.

Yeah, yeah. So he calls in sick, and Debbie's like, hey, I'm going to go to the kennels where I work. She worked as a groomer at a dog kennel. Why don't you come with me? And so he did. And he brought his sisters with him. It was like a whole group of them that went down to the kennels. He had like little sisters.

So he was like taking care of them. Okay. Once they get there, the manager of the kennels, Alan Bono. I think we know what happens to him because I already said it. Yeah. Yeah. Was there. And he so he was like a new resident in Brookfield.

So he was like a new resident in Brookfield. His sister owned the kennels, I guess, and he had moved there from Florida because she'd asked him to go oversee the kennels. And so he had gone there. He didn't know anything about running a kennel, so he really relied on Debbie, who helped him keep stuff on track. And she did a lot of the managerial stuff while Alan did a lot of drinking in his apartment upstairs. Oh, cool. Yeah. So he seemed like a really cool guy because he was super laid back and he was always,

you know, just like a little bit drunk. He had all of these great stories because he'd lived all over the world. He just like most recently before Florida, he'd lived in Australia for like 17 months and he'd run a plantation there I don't know what kind of plantation I'm not really sure I think that's a term for a farm but I don't know you said he ran a plantation now he's an overseer it's like really creeping me out and he didn't do shit while everyone else did that's right That's right. He was 40. He liked to talk about himself, brag about the things he'd done, but he also seemed to be like

a good time. And that particular day, he took them all out to lunch at a local bar. The Mug and Munch. Oh, God. The Mug and Munch? Yeah. Oh, no. The Mug and Munch. I mean, I would go there. Okay, you know what?

Here's how cheap I am. This whole time I've been like, mm-mm, mm-mm. A boss who's drunk half the time who doesn't, mm-mm. Not a fan. No, but as soon as he's like, hey, Kristen, let's go out for lunch. Let me buy you lunch. A mug and munch I'm buying. Okay.

I'll buy you, Alan. I'll be there. Let me get my purse. You know what? I don't even need it, I'm buying. Okay. All right, Alan, I'll be there. Let me get my purse. You know what? I don't even need it because you're buying. So they sat around the table at the mug and munch, and Alan told corny jokes, what? Told corny jokes, threw back glass after glass of red wine.

Cheyenne and Debbie had a little bit of wine, but just like, you know, like an A glass. Right. Really, Alan was having himself a little party and everyone else was there just to watch. Right. After lunch, they went back to the kennel in the afternoon and kind of, you know, drug on. Nothing, nothing of note happened. And then at one point, Alan had asked Arnie to fix his stereo for him. And he had, he'd like fix the speakers. And then it came on and like, it came on super loud. And there was like all of this noise and it hurt everybody's ears and everybody's like really

changed the, the tone of the room. Like everybody was kind of on edge after it. It seemed like Alan was kind of irritated. And so Debbie. Well, it wasn't Arnie's fault. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. But yeah.

All right. All right. People were kind of. People were kind of like, ah. And then Alan's like upset and whatever. And so Debbie kind of reads the room and is like, hey, to all the kids, like, hey, let's go pick up some pizza for dinner. Let's get on out of here.

Yeah. Yeah. And so they did. They left. And it was her hope that when they'd come back, everything would be fine. And maybe maybe Alan would be up in his apartment and she could get her work done and everything would be fine. But when she gets back with the kids, Alan's downstairs in the kennel part.

And he's like, hey, everybody come up and hang out in my apartment with me. Everybody come on upstairs. Bring your pizza. You know, whatever. We'll turn on the TV. And so they go upstairs and the TV comes on and it's too loud and it sets him off again. And so he is like mad that the TV is too loud. He starts like pounding his hand into his fist.

He's like, well, why not just turn it down? Right. I don't know. I don't know. It seems to set him off. OK. So now Debbie's like, everybody get out of here. Everybody get out of here.

Everybody leave. She's like getting the kids out. out of here. Everybody get out of here. Everybody leave. She's like getting the kids out. And as they're going to leave, Alan grabs one of the little girls, like a nine year old girl. Oh my God. And so Debbie's like, uh-uh, no, no, no. And so she goes and she grabs this little girl. Her name's Mary and like pushes her to the door. And now Alan has Debbie. Oh my God. So Arnie was downstairs and he heard all of this going on. And he had already headed to the car because he was, like, going to get all the girls loaded in the car and, like, get out of there. But he hears that there's a commotion going on.

He hears Debbie. And so he goes upstairs, walks into the apartment, and he sees Alan with his like arms around Debbie, like holding her. And she's trying to free herself. And it was like one of the girls that was there later said, this is Wanda. This is one of Arnie's sister says, all of a sudden it was like everything just broke. She said, I can't explain it. It just broke. She said, Arnie just lost it.

He started growling like an animal. Wow. She saw a flash of something in the air, and then I all ran from the room, ran to the car. And then as quickly as it had started, it was done. Alan was still standing there with his fist in his hand. A knife hit the floor. And then Alan hit the floor. He'd been stabbed to death. There was a wound that ran from his chest all the way down to his stomach. Oh, my God. He just hit the floor dead.

No one could say exactly what had happened, except that the knife that hit the floor seemed to be the knife that Cheyenne always carried on him. His pocket knife was like a five inch pocket knife. But it was like time had stood still it was like everything like had gone dark and then all of a sudden alan bono is laying on the floor dead and arnie just calmly walked out of the building into the woods the police came and tried to render aid to Alan Bono, but his wounds were, as they were described in the newspaper, there were four or five tremendous wounds. Like I said, one that extended, like, all the way from, like, chest to belly button. Yeah. Wow.

Wow. Wow. When police tracked down Arnie, he was like just wandering like a mile away, two miles away. And they took him into custody without a fight. The stabbing itself was over quickly. But according to those close to Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, including his girlfriend Debbie, this whole thing had actually started months earlier. And Arnie wasn't a murderer. He was possessed by the devil. Oh, my God.

It began in the summer of 1980. Cheyenne Johnson and Debbie Glatzel had found this little house in the country that they wanted to move into. It was a rental house, and Debbie described it as her dream house. It was yellow. Wow. Yellow.

Which is a term that everybody knows means yellow with olive shutters. Obviously, duh. I wish you hadn't wasted time explaining it. It was like set back in the woods, but it was like not that far out of town, so it would be close. So at this point, Cheyenne and Debbie were living with Cheyenne's mother. She was in poor health. And so Debbie and Cheyenne really took care of her children, his siblings. Okay.

And so it was a home that they could all move into but still be close to town for their jobs and whatever. So they go into this rental house to check it out and see if it's, you know, in good enough condition for them to rent, if they can all have space there, whatever. Right. So they go into this rental house to check it out and see if it's, you know, in good enough condition for them to rent, if they can all have space there, whatever. And in one of the rooms, there was this waterbed that had been left behind. And they were, like, joking about how waterbeds are stupid. And they are. They're, like, have you ever? Oh, my God.

Oh, my. Yes. Yeah. I remember when I was a kid, I got in one. Yeah. And at first you think it's cool. But then you roll over and, like, the other person sloshes off the bed. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

So they take turns, like, laying on this waterbed, like, sloshing around. But Debbie's 12-year-old brother, David, was like, mm-mm, I'm not getting in it. it yeah because it's someone's used waterbed no he just felt something creepy yeah the creepy part was it was someone's used waterbed he said it made him uneasy he just had a feeling about it me too so he didn't get in it but later that day did you ever have a waterbed yeah i had a fucking water bed you personally okay it's kind of complicated why is it complicated either you had one or my dad had a water bed like right after my parents got divorced and so i slept in his water bed i remember sleeping that one and then that water bed later became my sister's bed. But like remember that really bad ice storm

that we had? Yes. Okay. Did a bridge come through a window and poke the waterbed? No, no, no. My dad was convinced this big tree in the back of our house was going to fall on our house and it would have fallen right on my bedroom. And so while

we were living, like while we had to stay in the house because of the ice storm, we had no power or anything. He made me sleep in my sister's water bed in the other room so I wouldn't get crushed by a tree. And also because there was like the water is heated and even without power it would hold that heat for some amount of time so it would probably be warmer

sleeping in it. Anyway, I fucking hated sleeping in the water bed because no matter what you did, you always woke in the morning just your face on the wood supports on the side of the bed. Yeah. Always. Yeah. So yes, I have slept in a waterbed.

You know, that was surprisingly complicated. I told you it was complicated. And I doubted you. I was like, this is so weird. How complicated could it be? Have you or have you not had a waterbed? Do they still have that waterbed? No.

What do you mean, no? no? I mean, it sounds like they kept it for way longer than most people. They did keep it for a long time. This was the early 2000s. This was when your vagina was named Lance Bass. The sad thing is, Lance Bass was going to come to you that day, but he was like, wait, she's in a water bed? Water bed?

No thanks. Not a good look. Anyway, so later that day, they're still at the property. They're checking it out, whatever. David goes in that room by himself. He's thinking that maybe he'll just try out the waterbed when no one's watching him. Okay, why are you talking about it like it's masturbation? He's just going to lay in this bed. Yeah, he's like working up the nerve

to lay in this water bed. Because he's scared of it. He's 12 and he doesn't want to admit he's scared of it. I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about the adult. I'm sorry. No, the little 12 year old. Okay, okay, I'm sorry. Wow, I'm really sorry about the masturbation comment. Jesus.

Really sorry. Apologies to all. So David's standing there and he's like all right i'm just gonna do it everybody else did it i'm just gonna lay on this bed and then he swears while he was alone in that room someone pushed him onto the bed and then he turned so he's on the bed. He's flailing about. He rolls over. And there's a man standing there. An old man in a torn plaid shirt and blue jeans and coarse weathered skin. And the man said to him, I sleep in my makeup. That's what my skin's going to look like? Yeah.

If karma has anything to do with it. No, the man just said, beware. This is stupid. And so David shit his pants and jumped up and ran out of the room. And then that very same night, he saw the man again. Only this time he looked different. But he was sure it was the same man. This time, his skin wasn't just weathered. It was burned and black.

And he was barefoot this time. He didn't have on his work boots like he had the last time. And in place of his feet were hooves. That night he sat around the kitchen table with his family and he said, This man came to me today. I've seen him twice. I'm scared. He told me to beware.

And I don't know what to do. And his mother said in this article for the Washington Post, she said, I believed him instantly. I've read about the supernatural. I've heard the Warrens lecture. What? I just knew he must be talking about a ghost. And so Judy Glatzel, who is David Glatzel's mom, decided she needed to contact the Warrens. The Warrens to which she were referring were Ed and Lorraine Warren, famed paranormal investigators.

Oh, okay. Ed was a self-proclaimed demonologist. Oh. And his wife Lorraine was a self-professed clairvoyant and trance medium. I don't know what that means, but it sounds like you can do it at a rave. Everyone, I wish you could see Brandy's club moves. She just busted out while sitting down. They were quite good.

So I'm sure you can all imagine. Where have all the cowboys gone? Technoremix. Do-do, do-do, do-do. So Ed and Lorraine Warren, since 1952, had been operating the New England Society for Psychic Research. And by the time everything started happening with David Glatzel, they had gained worldwide fame through the Amityville Horror Case. Oh, okay. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. You should cover that. I have. So David's strange sightings and behavior continued and worsened and after 12 days, Judy, his mom, was like,

I am calling the Warrens. They will know what to do. And so she, I don't know, looked up their phone number in the phone book. I don't know. I guess that's what you did in 1981. What do you mean, I am calling the Warrens. They will know what to do. And so she, I don't know, looked up their phone number in the phone book. I don't know. I guess that's what you did in 1981. What do you mean, I don't know? Of course that's what she did. Or maybe there was like an ad in the back of the newspaper.

Who are you going to call? The Warrens. And so she calls them and Ed and Lorraine come in and they're like, oh, no, this is not a ghost. Because she's like, I think there's a ghost. He's seeing this man. Blah, blah, blah. They're like, nope. Ghost.

Small potatoes. Wish you had a ghost. Yeah. If you're going to be haunted, a ghost is what you want. I wish that I could come in here today and tell you you had a ghost. What they knew was that you had a ghost. Nope. What they knew was that this was no ghost. This was an

inhuman and evil spirit. Infestation. A full on infestation. This is what Ed Warren says of his initial assessment of David Glatzel. Right anew.

Wow. Jesus. Were you supposed to say right away I knew? Right anew. Devil. Right away I knew there was something to this. I felt like a good fisherman when he knows there's something on the line. And Lorraine Warren said, the pieces of the puzzle just fit together very, very early.

So they come in and they're like, OK, tell us about what's been going on. And Judy tells them that he's been writhing in bed at night. He screams obscenities. He will. It looks like there are hands choking him, but they can't see anything. They can just see like his skin tightening around his neck and points. He'd be thrown up against a wall and he would be flinching in pain and it would look like he was being stabbed. His mother said he attacked me a lot.

He spit at me, kicked at me, squeezed me in the bust. Oh, mm hmm. He went after his grandmother with a knife. The family took to sleeping during the day so that they could keep their eyes on him at night. sleeping during the day so that they could keep their eyes on him at night. Judy and the Warrens said that there were warning signs when, like, this spirit was going to take over David. Because it wasn't just like he was, you know, possessed 100% of the time.

Yeah, that'd be stupid. Yeah, right. Exactly. So, you know, he'd just be going along his normal day. And then all of a sudden, his head would lower to his chest. And then he would slowly lift it. So crazy. And his face would be contorted into a snarl. And all you could see were the whites of his eyes.

And then he would laugh a hideous laugh. I'm sorry. the whites of his eyes. And then he would laugh a hideous laugh. That sounds creepy. It does sound creepy as fuck. Imagine your 12 year old doing that. Yeah, you'd be scared as fuck. Yep. If your 12 year old

was really doing that. Yeah. It wasn't just that though. There's all kinds of other stuff going on in the Glatzel home. They had seen a toy dinosaur just walking around on its own. They were ahead of their time because Toy Story didn't even come out until the 90s. Plates had levitated. Rocking chairs had rocked.

And books moved mysteriously through the air. And a cake pan. Wow. A cake stand? A cake pan. Oh. A cake pan had floated right off the kitchen counter up to the ceiling. Oh, no.

What happened to the cake? And they could prove it. What happened to the cake? And they could prove it because the outline of the cake was left on the ceiling. That is proof. Debbie herself. I'd be pissed if someone ruined a cake. I would be too

if someone left the cake out in the rain. Took so long to bake it. What? That's a stupid song. You know, I'm trying to follow along with you. You're making it real difficult. And Debbie had experienced things herself. So Debbie is.

I bet she had. Is Arnie's girlfriend, David's sister. She said that she'd been clawed by a mysterious green hand in the middle of the night. And that she, too, had seen the beast, as the Glatzels came to call the entity that was haunting them. Not a ghost, mind you. The beast. She said, I saw a face with jagged teeth and coal black eyes. It had horns and pointed ears and flashing lights appeared on my walls.

And then I heard my mother call my name. There were other times where things would go on in the house that didn't seem quite as threatening, just kind of annoying. Their clothes jumped out of the drawers and one time Judy went into the bathroom and her makeup was on the floor. She was like, it was really just pretty annoying. They're punks is what they are. An evil entity. Yeah.

Oh, what shall we do today? I'll put her makeup on the floor. You looked like Conan O'Brien when you did that. Did I? Thank you. He's the most beautiful podcaster in all the land. So after some pretty... You looked like Joe Rogan when you did that.

That was fucking rude as shit. What are your thoughts on trans people? You got any hot takes? Oh god! Number one podcast. Annie Hooser. After some pretty serious assessment and some mini exorcisms, The Warrens declared that David was possessed by 43 demons and two devils. Oh, my God.

That's too bad. That's a shame. 43 and two devils. Yeah, 43 43 and two devils yeah 43 demons and two devils obviously duh try to keep up everyone so the Warrens went to work

to try and get a formal exorcism done on David that's what he needed but you know it's just kind of a bitch to get that taken care of. So in the meantime, they did these like mini exorcisms while they were working through the process at the Catholic Church to try and get a full on exorcism by a priest done. But the official statement from the Catholic Church is one that is very similar to that of the Church of Scientology. If you ask them if they believe in Xenu, which is so. Oh, my gosh. Who would believe in an alien?

Am I right? So. So the official statement by the Catholic Church at this time was like exorcisms. That's just nonsense. But it really seems that they were working through the process and like several priests came to visit David, but they weren't authorized to perform a full exorcism. So they performed a mass at the house to cleanse it. Authorized? What, does the Pope have to come down and be like, bobbity boopy?

Yes, basically. Sorry, that was probably. It has to come from the Vatican. Oh, Lord. Sorry, that was probably super offensive. It has to come from the Vatican. Oh, Lord. Yeah. And so another article talks to this director of communications for the Diocese of Bridgeport, Connecticut. And he says that basically we wanted, before we would go through the proper channels to authorize an exorcism, if that were something that the church would ever do. Which, of course, we would never do.

We wanted the Glatzels to take David to see a psychiatrist. And they refused to do so. So that's why there was never a full-on exorcism or why we didn't approve one if we ever would have done such a crazy thing. Which we would never do. Right, exactly. And so Judy Glatzel's like, uh-uh, actually, you know what? I did take my son to a psychiatrist, and it was $75 an hour, and all they wanted to do was stick needles in him,

and no one's going to do that to my son. Stick needles in him? Yeah, I don't know. Okay. Okay. gonna do that to my son stick needles in him okay okay i mean it really says a lot that she's leading with the price instead of stick needles she said she went on to say that she doesn't understand why it's so hard for people to accept that her son was possessed. She said, if people honestly believe in Jesus Christ, our Lord, they have to believe in the devil.

Besides, this world is being controlled by the devil. Look at the drugs, the prostitution, the gambling, the violence, that court podcast with the two foul-mouthed girls. The devil is in charge of it all. I like the tall one.

She's not bad. It's that other one. I mean, now, was this for real? Like the gambling? Yes. Everything except for the court podcast is real, yes. Yeah, that's her real argument.

You have to believe in the devil if you believe in the Lord and look what the devil is doing to our world. So, of course, my son is possessed by the devil. 43 demons and two devils. Okay. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and say I think you can believe in the Lord and you can believe in the devil and not believe that the devil has shown up at some y'all live rental in Connecticut or wherever this is and shoved some kid into a waterbed and said, beware.

Then he shows up again, shoeless. Yeah, that's right. With hooves for feet. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. With hooves. For feet. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we need to go that far. I think we can draw a line.

I agree. So Cheyenne Johnson, though, had believed David from the beginning. So by this point, he had taken to live, to living with the Glatzels because he was like part of the team that was like staying up around the clock to monitor David. OK. Why wouldn't you leave? Yeah, because it was the house wasn't possessed. David was leaving doesn't do you any good. Have you seen no horror movies?

Yeah. I mean, I've seen very few. But that would make for a very short film, wouldn't it? Well, I'm just going to leave. So Cheyenne, Arnie, whatever we're calling him now, was present at one of the mini exorcisms. He's actually present at multiple mini exorcisms. Oh, so mini, not many. Miniature.

Yes, miniature. Yeah. Yes. And at that exorcism, he was helping pin David to the bed while they were putting a crucifix on him. And, you know, things were getting real hot and heavy. And it was just kind of, you know, scary in there. And so finally, Arnie Cheyenne Johnson was like, I'm not afraid of you.

I will fight you. Take me instead. And David looked at him, you know, lowered his head, looked up with his face all snarled and the whites of his eyes showing. And he said, they're laughing at you. The Warrens then looked at Arnie and they were like, never do that. Never invite a demon in! Mm-hmm. But it was too late.

Yeah, he'd already done it. He was like the vampire, was already inside the house. Well, and like, he was like the undercover cop standing at the front door with a glass of tea. Come on in! Just made some tea! Yeah!

Come on in. Just made some tea. This continued on like this for months. With David having these periods of possession and them doing these little exercises. Well, he did ask for it. Sorry. David didn't ask for it. Arnie asked for it. Arnie.

I'm in for it. In the fall, Debbie and Cheyenne went back to that house that they were interested in. They'd never moved in because the whole possession thing had happened. And, you know, time just gets away from you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. So they'd gone back to the Yollif house. And they were like, oh, should we move here?

Is this just going to continue forever? We just have to figure out a way to live our lives and they were there in the house looking out the window when all of a sudden arnie said there he is the beast is here in the y'all live house in the y'all live house and then he started growling did someone invite the beast into the y'all of house beast originated at the y'all live house debbie said that he bared his teeth and growled as he stared at the beast debbie said she knew right away exactly what had happened she slapped arnie and there was no reaction and she slapped him again and this time he like came out of a trance she looked him in the eyes and she said, the beast is in you now. And Arnie said, oh, my God.

Oh, no. What, Kristen? Nothing. This wasn't the only time that Debbie noticed Arnie acting a bit strangely. Altogether, she saw Arnie show signs of possession on multiple occasions. There was the time that Arnie got up in the middle of the night and he woke her up and he stared at her and said, Go to bed. And in that moment, Debbie thought, oh no. It's happened again.

He's doing it again. There was another time when Arnie got out of bed. What happened? Punched an old trunk that was in their bedroom and yelled something about hell. Okay. And then there was that time where Arnie went to church with the Glatzel family and they were in the middle of mass. Bad move. and they were in the middle of mass move they're in the middle of mass when arnie jumped up in church and yelled son of a bitch i want to get out of here

can you maybe it was just bored can you imagine being bored as shitless bored as shitless bored shitless at church and somebody yells at us and I mean Catholic ceremonies they last a long time

yes it's a long fucking time mass is forever you don't have to have the devil inside to want to leave okay question did Arnie have those two devils You don't have to have the devil inside you to want to leave. Okay, question.

Did Arnie have those two devils, just one devil, the 43 other fellas? I think just the one devil. Okay. Yeah. That seems manageable. I'm not done yet. Oh, no, I know. I'm listening.

And then there was the day that Debbie Glatzel heard two voices coming out of Arnie Cheyenne Johnson's mouth at the same time. That was the day that Alan Bono died. Now, this doesn't really fit in here, but I didn't know where else to put it. And it feels like while maybe it's not pertinent to the case, it is important information. Okay. So I'm going to include it here now. Okay. And I must now tell you that Debbie and Arnie first met at a grocery store when Debbie was 19 and Arnie was 12. No.

Oh, no. And Arnie was 12. No. Oh, no. Arnie helped her pick up a display that Debbie had knocked over. And for him, it was love at first sight. Oh, my God. And Debbie later explained, quote, I tried to discourage him at first.

Okay. Oh, my God. This has nothing to do with the case, but it's very alarming. I think it is pertinent. Because, like, she's, I mean, the weirdos are kind of running the show. Yeah. He's clearly kind of under a spell by the devil. Devil, yeah. By Debbie.

Yeah. So instead of dating Arnie because she was 19 and he was 12, she actually became good friends with his mom, Mary. And they would go on picnics and take the kids to the beach. Sure. Earn the trust of the parents. Hang out as a whole family unit.

Cool. But then when Arnie was 16 and Debbie was now 23. He asked Debbie out and she said yes. Oh, so he was really in the driver's seat this whole time. He was after her and she was really not into it, but also very much wanting to hang out all the time. Cool. Nothing to worry about here. Nothing predatory there at all.

Nope. And soon they fell in love. That is the sweetest story I've ever heard. Oh, no. And now the love of her life is possessed by the devil. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Anyway. So now that you have those troubling details, let's get back to the case at hand.

So following the death of Alan Bono, the first murder in the 193 history, the first murder in the 193 year history of the town, the Brookfield police chief, John Anderson, released this statement, which I think is kind of funny. He said, it was not an unusual crime. Somebody got angry and an argument resulted. But it was the first murder in the town's history. And naturally, we couldn't have a simple, uncomplicated murder. We can't have nice things around here. Oh, no. Instead, everyone in the whole world converges on Brookfield.

See, he's doing the opposite of welcoming the devil in. That's right. He's like, get the hell out of my town. He went on to say, I'm trying to be very objective to keep an open mind. I can't say it didn't happen how they said it did. It didn't happen how they said it did. But his hope was that Brookfield wouldn't turn into the attraction that Amityville had become. Right.

But it seemed like someone was trying to make that happen and worked that to his advantage. Enter Martin Manella, Arnieyenne johnson's defense attorney in an attempt to drum up interest in arnie's case in the hopes that it would help his defense he joined the warrens on a press tour and talked about the unusual defense he would be putting oh my god for his client arnie cheyenne johnson had not murdered Alan Bona. Wait, is this where we get the devil made me do it? He was possessed. The devil made him do it.

Oh my God, I never knew where that came from. Okay, it all makes sense. This is known as the devil made me do it case. Wow. Yes. In one interview, he said, everybody asks, how did you come up with a defense like this?

Here's the thing. I didn't come up with this. This is what was presented to me. I went to see Ed and Lorraine and I decided to take this case on after talking to them. They told me that when you're possessed, you have no control over your actions. And that stuck in my mind. Okay. I mean, does the American legal system recognize possession?

Manila said that he never had any interest in the subject of demons until Arnie Johnson's case came up. But now there's no doubt in his mind that this was the work of the devil. He said the wounds in Alan Bono's body were too deep for human hands to have been able to create them. But that was going to be really difficult to argue in court because Alan Bono's body had been cremated before any like measurements or molds could be done. Well, then how could he even say? He's just pretty sure. Okay. Kristen.

Okay. He's pretty sure. All right. Yeah. Could a non-possessed man armed with a simple pocket knife cut a man from chest to belly button? Filet him like a shrimp? Butterfly him? Butterfly him.

I think that's the term. I mean, maybe. I don't know. No! No! Okay, I guess the devil did it then he said you know it's really too bad that the body's been cremated because there's just nothing like seeing a body that's an actual quote this guy is ridiculous sure would like to take a look at a dead body right now. So ahead of the trial, he does all these interviews and he's like, this is what I'm going to do.

I'm going to bring religion directly into the courtroom. Yeah. The courts have dealt with the existence of God. And now they'll be asked to deal with the existence of the devil. Oh, wow. Not a bad line at all. It's a good line. It's a good line. All right.

It's a good line. He told everyone that he was going to bring in experts from Europe on exorcism. And he'd gone to Europe because they'd brought'd brought there'd been two cases that had used demonic possession as their defense before in Europe neither of them had gone before a jury but you know it was kind of he was going to bring experts from those cases talk about the precedent that that sets bring in experts from the Catholic Church talk about the ins and outs of exorcism. Bring in the Warrens. Talk about demonic possession and how they knew

that David was possessed by 43 demons and two devils. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, but he lays this all out in like a pre-trial hearing. Yeah, because this is like his 15 minutes.

So he's going to, I'm going to do this and then I I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to do this. And if I'm elected student council leader, we'll have recess all day. And ho-hos in every vending machine. Yeah. So, yeah. So he's like at a pre-trial hearing, and he's like, hey, this is the planned defense. Here you go, judge. But he likes, you know, pushes it across the table.

It's just a post-it note. With a drawing of the devil on it. And he's like, yeah, so I would like to now enter a plea of not guilty by reason of demonic possession. That's not a plea. And so the judge is like, uh-huh, uh-huh. So here's the thing. You can't. Yeah, that's not a thing.

No. And allowing such testimony in the court would be unscientific and irrelevant. Yeah. The judge went on to say, the court will take judicial notice that the profession, the business, or hobby of locating demons has not risen to that level of viability where it would be of assistance to the jury in deciding the case. That is the most diplomatic thing I have ever heard. Yeah, basically like, no, you can't say he was possessed by the devil because what's that? You can't prove it? Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. There's no science behind that. But the judge gave them room to grow. It is not risen to that level. Maybe one day. And so instead, Arnie Cheyenne Johnson's attorney had to opt for a simple defense of self-defense. Lame.

The jury was not allowed to hear anything about demonic possession. Basically, Arnie's attorney could, like, hint that there was a greater power at work. But that was it. Well, I'm sorry, but if you tell someone there's a greater power at work, don't they all think God? Probably. So you'd have to do like those little devil horns on either side of your head. So he dressed as a devil each day in court to try and subliminally get the message across.

Yeah, yeah. I sure would like to possess her. And they're like, wow, this guy's really got lawyers down, am I right? Waka, waka, waka. Great jokes on this podcast. So the jury was not legally allowed to consider demonic possession as a viable explanation for the killing. Well, that's just lame. They deliberated for 15 hours over three days.

And on November 24th, 1981, they found Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, guilty of manslaughter. Wow. Mm-hmm. He was sentenced to 10 to 20 years in prison. But Arnie was a model prisoner, and he was released after serving just five years. He and Debbie married while he was in prison. Wait, did the devil exit through his butthole? No, no, no.

So here's what happened. Here's what happened. Hold on. He and Debbie are still married today. Okay. Okay, but no. In an interview with Ed Warren following the trial and everything, he said, Arnie knows the warning signs now.

He knows when a possession is coming. And he knows the steps that he has to take. Okay. This is hilarious to me because this reminds me so much. Kyla has low blood sugar. Yeah. And, you know, when she was really young and stuff. But now she knows the signs.

So it's like, okay, go get a scoop of peanut butter. So I'm just picturing him getting the scoop of peanut butter devil go by yeah wards off the devil yeah yeah an apple a day keeps the doctor away a scoop of peanut butter a day keeps the devil away yeah yeah you can't believe in doctors if you don't also believe in devils. It makes no sense. Okay. In 1983, this guy, Gerald Brittle, who was some kind of author,

I'm guessing, wrote a book about this case with the help of Lorraine Warren. It was entitled The Devil in Connecticut. And Lorraine stated that the profits from the book were shared with the family. And the family confirmed that they were paid about $2,000 in proceeds from the book. So that came out in like 1983.

You know, there was a bunch of press around it, whatever. That kind of stuff kind of died down. And then in 2006, it was republished. And at that time, David Glatzel and his brother Carl. So the Glatzels had three children. David was the youngest. His brother Carl was the middle child and Debbie was the oldest. So David and Carl actually sued the authors and the publishers at that time for violating their right to privacy, libel and intentional infliction of emotional distress.

Well, no. Why? Why would they do that? The book's already been published. They're just. No, you can't. Right. Give me a fucking break.

So Carl claimed that the book was completely concocted by Ed and Lorraine and that they had basically. Oh, the book was bullshit. But OK. And that they had written it to exploit their family and that his brother was actually mentally ill at the time. But he'd since been cured of his mental illness. And that explained all of the weird stuff that had been going on in the Glatzel home. And also he was really upset because apparently the book presented him as a villain. But that was only because he didn't believe in the supernatural.

Okay. He said that the Warrens told him that the story would make the family millions and that it would help get Arnie Johnson out of jail. That's why the family had agreed to the book at the time. Mm hmm. And according to Carl, the publicity that was generated by the story had forced him to drop out of school and lose friends and not be able to find work. And so his whole life had been affected by it. But only like in 2006 when they republished it. Yeah, not earlier. Not earlier. Lorraine defended the book and the time she spent working with the family.

She said that they have over 100 hours of interviews with the family on tape and that she stands by everything in the book. And the only reason that Carl and David Glatzel were coming forward at this point was because they wanted money. Yeah. Arnie Johnson and Debbie, now Johnson, Debbie Glatzel, said that they completely support the Warrens' accounts of what happened to David and Arnie. And they believe that Carl and David were only suing for monetary purposes. And as far as I can tell, that lawsuit never actually went anywhere. It appears it was just dismissed. And that's the story of a possession.

That was so good. That was fascinating. 43. 43 demons and two devils. That's too much. That's a lot. I don't think anybody could handle that. Arnie could barely handle one devil.

Yeah, that's right. That poor kid. Plus he had that waterbed to deal with. I know. 12 and 19. That might be the most alarming part to deal with. I know. 12 and 19. That might be the most alarming part of this story. I'm sorry? That Arnie was 12 and Debbie was 19.

Yeah, that's fucking gross. Yeah. And they probably met in, like, the cookie aisle. Yeah. Just lurking. She was just trolling the cookie aisle. Yeah, she was just standing by those delicious iced animal crackers, the pink ones. Yeah, and she just, like, nudged the display over.

She was going to, like, she arranged a meet cute. That's exactly what she did. With a little boy. Oh, my gosh. Ooh. Ooh. Uh-huh. Should we take questions for the Discord?

I think so. But first, how do they get into the Discord? All they have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher, and that gets them in to the Discord. It's like a 90s-style chat room where you can just chitty chat the day away. Blue Orchid would like to know if you're itching because you have poison ivy on your anus. No, I do not. How dare you? I haven't worked out in the yard recently, though.

Kristen, have you tried watching Amazing Race? My husband got me hooked on it as well as Survivor, and there are a million seasons. Oh, God. You know what? I probably need to start. You know, here's my problem. I'm getting to the boring seasons of Survivor. You've picked through, done the good ones.

Yep, and now I'm to the ones where it's like everyone's just there to make friends. the boring seasons of Survivor. You've picked through, done the good ones. Yep, and now I'm to the ones where it's like everyone's just there to make friends. And it's like, I don't know if you folks know, you're not supposed to be here to make friends. Fun fact, did you know the first time I'm Not Here to Make Friends was used on a reality show? Survivor. Of course it was. You knew that? No, I mean, it just makes sense.

All right. Well, you knew the Rhinelander story about Wisconsin. That's why you were inspired. To name my vagina Lance Bass. Cool, cool, cool. Wants to know favorite summer Olympic sport. Oh. Whew.

Whew. Do you know we're just like days away from the opening ceremonies? No, I didn't know that. July 23rd. Everybody calm down. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited. I love them all.

Swimming. Gymnastics. Yes. Diving. Synchronized diving. You seen that shit? That's wild. It is.

Yeah. I'm a gymnastics person. Obviously. I mean, who doesn't want to watch the gymnastics? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Liars. Fucking Simone Biles.

She's amazing. You did a gesture like she just flew over. She did. Just now. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Here's this question from Artie Bartz 11. They want to know, would you rather slow dance with Donald Trump to Savage

Gardens truly, madly, deeply full song with his hands on the waist or be misinformed and accidentally congratulate an acquaintance at a small intimate gathering on being pregnant, causing her to awkwardly silently cry in front of everyone? I'd dance with Donald Trump. So would I. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that would be I. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that would be terrible. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, God. I mean, I'm excited to do that, but. Holy shit. This is breaking news. This is not a question. Okay. slash golden face slash impeach just screenshot that ben folds is coming to kansas city with the symphony in october we're fucking going yes yes we are fucking going yes we are you didn't go last time because you're like oh i don't know the tickets were kind of pricey it was 40 dollars It was $40. The most expensive. Best concert ever.

Okay. Yes. Ben Folds with the symphony. You don't have to look at me like that. We're going. Yes, we're going. Okay. We're going.

I have to tie you up and throw you in my truck. We're going. Murder Grace period would like to know, have you ever abandoned a case midway through researching? All the time. All the time. You know how I know that Charlie Chaplin hated Hitler? Because I've abandoned my Charlie Chaplin case like 11 billion times. Yes, exactly. Vagina Helmet wants to know, are there any songs that make you cry every time you hear them?

Sir, I want to buy these shoes for my mama. Please. It's Christmas Eve and these shoes are just her size. She needs new shoes to meet Jesus. Yeah. I want her to look

beautiful if mama meets Jesus tonight. That is a terrible song. It's so bad. No, there's this stupid country song that makes me cry every time.

What is it? Oh my gosh, I don't know the name of it, but it's basically like, oh my, now I gotta, now I gotta look it up. Hold on.

Hold on. It's like this guy and he's like telling his girlfriend's dad that he's going to like love her the most. He asked for her hand in marriage. Like, you know, I'm going to love her. And then next they're getting married. He's like watching his wife walk down the aisle.

And then in the next one, they're welcoming their baby girl and he's going to love her the most now. Oh, I can't listen to you. David sent it to me and I was like, why would you do that to me? Okay. Now. Okay. Controversial thoughts. Yeah.

Do you think a couple should love each other the most or love their kids the most more than their. It's just a different kind of love. Okay. All right. Yeah. That's a diplomatic answer. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to look up what the name of this song is. It's called. I don't know. Oh. Promise to Love Her by Blaine Howard.

And it's obviously a country song. Because his name by Blaine Howard. And it's obviously a country song. Because his name is Blaine Howard. Lays Ruffles and Cottage Cheese wants to know, Kristen, I just listened to an old Patreon episode where you said you don't believe in ghosts. But in the most recent Patreon episode, you say you do believe in ghosts. Which is it, Miss Pitts? Between this and the Norm Chronicles, you seem to have a hard time keeping your story straight.

Oh! Okay, so I don't remember any of this. Here's my guess. Yeah. And you and I talked about this just today while I was trying to get you to go to the local vegan restaurant. I go back and forth. I'm like a pendulum on the hippy-dippy sides.

And so, you know. Yeah. One day you were like, no, ghost. And then another day you're over here and you're like, yeah, probably ghost. One day I'm a brick of Velveeta. The next day I'm cashew cheese. Jesus. I'm really kind of an enigma.

I'm kind of complicated. Flone, F-L-O-N-N-E, would like to know if you could erase one song completely from history so it never existed, what song would you pick? Sir, I'd like to buy these shoes. Wait, are you singing that song again? I wasn't even paying attention. My God. It's Christmas Eve and these shoes are just the size. Could you hurry? No, stop.

I'm censoring you. Daddy says there's not much time. Daddy, bleep this. She's been sick for quite a while. And I know these shoes would make her smile. And I want her to look beautiful if Mama meets Jesus tonight. The saddest part of that song to me is that that kid's mom did die that night. And all she left behind was a waterbed and a pair of shoes.

And when the shoes came off, she had hooves. That's why she needed the shoes to meet Jesus. Nugget Falls Out of Pants says, not a question, but it it's my birthday today could I get a little shout out no happy birthday Nugget Yadam Skip says was the Iowa writing class you went to the same one

that was referenced in the show Girls you know where Hannah What's Her Nuts went yes it was yes it was you want to be intimidated? Go to a writing class in Iowa.

Yeah, it's Hannah Horvath for the record, though. Yeah, yeah. Get it right, damn it. Get it right or pay the price! Salute your shorts! Camp Oniwana, we hold you in our hearts and when we think about you i hope we never fart i'll roll it down when i smell it pino grigi ho

brandy how jealous are you of my two corgis And then included a cute little picture of the corgis. And I am very jealous. They are very cute. Very, very cute. Persephone's mom wants to know, how do you manage life and the podcast? Brandy, you're a working mom on the go. And people are always saying, how does she do it? So how do you do it?

Caffeine pills. No, I'm just kidding. No, it's just about, like, balancing it and, you know, having a schedule. Like a little meth and a little. Yeah, having a good schedule. And that's why, like, our break was so important because we needed to, like, yeah, like, reset. Yeah. And come back to this.

So we have made it a point that we are going to schedule breaks and like that for ourselves in the future because it was so important. And like our vaginas are fully rejuvenated now. Yeah. For every break that we go on, we will each get a new plastic surgery as voted on by the patrons. No, but I do think it really does keep the show good. So I think it's super important. It's funny because that was like the main driving force for me was like, yeah, I don't want it to get stale. I don't want it to sound like work.

Yeah. But really, it just ended up being wonderful. I'd say the other thing is knowing to say no to things. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Someone earlier today. It's funny that this question popped up. Someone earlier today was like, hey, why don't you guys start a Facebook group?

And my polite answer was like, no. We've got a Facebook page. And I think I respect that like having another group or just another thing, you really need to be on top of it. You need to make sure people are being respectful to each other. You need to like keep those assholes, you know, the boot whatever it's just a lot of work yeah and i think you and i are realistic about what we can and can't do yeah and what we just don't want to absolutely absolutely and the other thing is that we genuinely have a great time doing this together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or do we?

No. Oh! It got spicy. Bees Fly 22 wants to know, what's your least favorite beverage? Brandy, I feel like you have a least favorite beverage. You're so damn picky. I love beverages, though. I know, but you've got to have a least favorite one because you're so picky.

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure I do. Hmm. You probably wouldn't even try anything, though, if it sounded a little iffy to you, right? Yeah, like I'm never going to try kombucha. Your face. It smells like. What what i don't know feet yeah yeah it smells like feet yeah smells gross i'm gonna go ahead and say that's my least favorite yeah fair enough or that apple cider vinegar shit you drink every day that's the thing i drink um

some water with some lemon juice and some apple cider vinegar. It's disgusting. Yeah. Ooh. What's your favorite 90s dance? A la the Macarena. Do you have one? Do you like the Macarena?

Do you like the Cha-Cha Slide? Oh! Cha-Cha Slide's pretty good because the instructions are just right there in the song. That's the key for me is I really have to be told. I always liked the electric slide. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's electric. We won't tell you what race we are,

but you should know that we like the electric slide, the cha-cha slide, and the Macarena. What about the Cupid Shuffle? Oh, yeah, I loved that, too. Okay, so we were listening to, I don't know, some party jams station at the salon. And the Cupid Shuffle came out and my client was like, are you guys listening to a wedding playlist? I've never heard this song outside of a wedding before.

Neither have I. Oh, what about the one that's like, Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Jump on it, jump on it, jump, dun. Dun, dun, dun. Jump on it. Jump on it. Jump on it. You know what's funny? As soon as you say jump on it, jump on it, it's like I feel on my heels a modest height, high heel because I'm jumping in shoes I don't really like, in a dress I don't particularly

like. That's what I've always been doing when I heard that song. Amy wants to know. It's A-M-Y-E, so she did it to me. What weird habit do you have? I love watching earwax removal videos and my friends think I'm crazy. Have you ever watched an earwax removal video? No, I don't think I can handle that.

I can't do Dr. Pimple Popper. I can't do any of that stuff. Here's the thing. Oh, you can't even talk about it. No, go ahead. No, go ahead. I think I can handle it. If you throw up in our sex dungeon, you are cleaning it up.

Earwax removal videos. I mean, they are gross. Mm-hmm. But once I start watching them, I can't look away. It's like Pringles once your pop gets to it. Oh, gross, gross. That's disgusting because all I can think about, you wouldn't believe what comes out of somebody's ear. I mean, sometimes they look like bugs.

Honest to God, roaches. Like, just curled up. Oh, God. Okay, I'm sorry. I'll stop. I can't handle that. Amy, why'd you do that to us? Oh, roaches. Like just curled up. Oh, God. Okay, I'm sorry. I'll stop. I can't handle that. Amy, why'd you do that to us? Oh, my gosh.

That was all her fault. Definitely not a lizard person wants to know, is a hamburger a sandwich? No. It's its own thing. Hamburger's not a sandwich. Do you think a hamburger's a sandwich? Of course not. I was just thinking.

I'm sorry. This went down a weird route in my head. And I was thinking, man, like, you reacted so strongly. I was like, man, people really want to categorize things. And then I started thinking about categorization and race. And then I started thinking about all those terrible terms. So that's why I had that look on my face. Anyway, I'm not normal.

I won't be normal for a while. And then I'll be back to my totally normal, wonderful self. Oh, my God. What do you got? What do you got? Captain Fart sails again. It says, we all have those daydreams where we somehow do something super wicked cool. What are yours?

One of mine is that I save someone by pulling them real fast out of the way of traffic. Oh, yeah. Mine are always like physical feats. Like I can like hardcore parkour. Climb a wall. Like legit. I'm like, oh, yeah, I could totally scale that wall. Obviously.

Duh. I'm not going to do it right now. I'm not going to show you that I can a wall. Like, legit. I'm like, oh, yeah, I could totally scale that wall. Obviously. Duh. Duh. I'm not going to do it right now. I'm not going to show you that I can do it. Because I'm not wearing the right shoes. I'm in flippy floppies right now. Okay. When I first read this question, I was like, I don't do that.

Then I remembered this one. This is so stupid. Where I'm in a parade. You know, not at the parade. I'm in the parade. I'm looking really cool. I'm doing a dance number, which, you know I'm in the parade. I'm looking really cool. I'm doing a dance number, which I can't dance,

so it's like this is total fantasy land. And then I see a toddler up ahead, and she's so excited. She starts wandering out into the middle of the street, but the bus thing is a coming, and so I stop the choreo. I jump down.

I get the toddler just in time. I save the day. I look beautiful as I do it. Meanwhile, you just scale a fucking wall. Yeah. Nobody's life is being saved. I guess that makes me pretty cool.

I guess it does. Should we wrap it up there? Do some Supreme Court inductions? I think we should wrap it up there with me Saving the day and looking beautiful While tipping it That is key, I mean I'm looking great In like a crop top thing Obviously, duh

Yeah, absolutely Okay, let's see here. Gotta do this fucking podcast now. Sorry, I can't keep talking about the parade, guys. It's a fictional parade. Brain is making me move on to Supreme Court inductions. I know you want to hear more. To get inducted on this podcast, all you have to do is join at the $7 level or higher.

Why do you seem angry? Did I say it like I was angry? To get inducted on this podcast. I didn't mean it angrily. I'm sorry. I think there's a demon inside you. 42 demons. One devil.

Well, then that's not so bad. Way more manageable. Yeah, that's not so bad. Quit complaining. We are reading your names and your favorite cookies. Rachel Gladys. Salted Caramel Chunk. Erin Rex.

Double Doozy from Great American Cookies. What's Great American Cookies? What's Double Doozy? I don't know. Let's find out where first and then we know what to order. Let's be organized. Erin Schaefer My favorite cookie is officially the Brandy Recipe chocolate chip cookies

But instead of adding more chocolate chips for the nut portion I added chopped up Reese's Thins Best cookies ever Oh, that smells pretty good Brandy's looking a little threatened She's looking a little like she's not up for parkour right now. Lissa Gwynn. Snickerdoodle with pecans.

Carolina. Homemade chocolate chip. Mariah. Double stuffed Oreo. Edith. French macaroons. Tiffany Merson. Apple pie farmhouse cookies.

I have no idea. Saffron pie farmhouse cookies. What's that? I have no idea. Saffron. Peanut butter cookies. Everybody's wild about saffron. I'm new. Raina Paniagua. Very good. Deep fried Oreos.

The devil has a frying station at the county fair. Kate Janusz. Pumpkin bacon chocolate chunk. Oh, is that a joke, Kate? That seems like way too many things happening there. Sorry. Sorry, we shouldn't insult the people who pay us. Sandra C.

I'm-a ready. Emmy. I'm-a ready to eat some cookies. More variant cookies. What is that? She says, like gingerbread, but better. And who are we to question? Kaylee Code.

Those coconut dad's cookie rings you never find anymore. God, they were good. Coconut dad's cookies rings. That sounds like a figment. I bet they serve that at the parade where I save a toddler. Aaron Griffiths. Eggnog Cookies. Elle Goldstein.

Chocolate Chip. Jaws Wind. Loft House Sugar Cookies. Nessa Rodriguez. Peanut Butter. Alexandria Lombardi. Soft Batch Cream Cheese Chocolate Cookie. That's a lot of things, but it sounds good.

Kaylee Chavez. Palmieres from Costco. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Man, what a good episode. I don't think you're supposed to say that about your own episode. We really did it this time. Thank you for all of your support. We appreciate it so much.

If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. And then be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics.

Podcast adjourned. For real, I thought this was really fun. It was a very fun episode. We rarely talk about the devil, but we should do that more. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts.

I got my info from an NPR article by Theodore Johnson III, a TED Talk, an article in The Atlantic by Angela Onwachi-Willig, an article in the Notre Dame News by Heidi Ardizon, an Earl Lewis. Wikipedia. And a video by Melina Pendulum on YouTube. What? Yes, that's right. By Melina Pendulum on YouTube.

Princess Weeks on Patreon. I got my info from an article by Lynn Darling for the Washington Post. An article for All That's Interesting by Marco Margaritoff. Oxygen.com. Newsweek. News Times. and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it.

Go read their stuff. Woo!