Let's Go To Court! - 182: Kidnappings!

Episode Date: August 11, 2021

When he was working as a manager at Imo’s Pizza, Michael Devlin put up a pretty good front. He was personable. Well read. Friendly. But back at his apartment, Michael was a different man. He was rude and quiet. His son, Shawn, appeared to have adopted Michael’s habits. Neighbors said they never saw Shawn smile. But what they didn’t know was that Shawn wasn’t really Michael’s son. His name wasn’t even Shawn Devlin. It was Shawn Hornbeck. But the truth wouldn’t come out until much later, when another boy, Ben Ownby, went missing.  Then Brandi tells us about a kidnapping that shook Long Island, New York. It was July 4, 1956. Betty Weinberger’s one-month-old infant, Peter, fell asleep in his carriage on the patio. As the little boy slept, Betty went inside the house. When she came back out a few minutes later, her baby boy was gone. Betty’s husband later found a ransom note at the scene. In it, the kidnapper demanded $2,000 in exchange for the baby. The kidnapper warned the Weinbergers not to involve the police, but the couple felt they had no choice.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Monster next door?” by Malcolm Gay for the Riverfront Times “One search, two boys found: The Missouri miracle 14 years ago,” by Tim O’Neil for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch “Michael Devlin stabbed in prison with ‘ice pick,’” by Todd Frankel for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch “I am still too scared to tell my mom and dad, ‘kidnap’ creep admits,” by Susannah Cahalan for the New York Post “Shawn Hornbeck,” Crime Museum “MIchael J. Devlin,” entry on Wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Held for Ransom” by Michael Dorman “Mark of a Murderer” by Mike McAlary, Esquire “JUSTICE STORY: Tragic kidnapping of Long Island infant shattered two young families” by Robert Dominguez, New York Daily News “Weinberger Kidnapping” FBI.gov “Vincent LaMarca” wikipedia.org YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 19+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode I'll talk about the Missouri Miracle. And I'll be talking about an old-timey kidnapping. Are you familiar with the Missouri Miracle? I am. So we have a theme. Yes. Should I be saying that or does it ruin stuff? I don't think it ruins anything. Okay, we have a theme. Yes. Should I be saying that or does it ruin stuff? I don't think it ruins anything. Okay. We have a theme.

We do. We have a theme. It's a theme. Okay. Okay. Brandy, how you doing? You know what? I'm doing pretty good.

I've fully recovered, you know, mostly from last week's devastation. Yeah. Last week was extremely devastating. If you haven't listened to last week's episode, we recorded the whole thing, then realized that Brandi's mic had cut out, and we had to record it all over again, back to back. It was terrible.

You can hear our voices sound scratchy in that one. Yeah, because we talked for over six hours. That's too long. I took a vow of silence after that. I am breaking it now. Misery and miracle, huh? Okay, here's what I know. I know your case.

I knew you would know. Because I've started to cover it multiple times. And I can't handle it. You can't? Nope. Brandi, you cover the most brutal, horrible stuff. Why can't you handle monkeys? I'll tell you when you cover it.

Okay. Because I don't want to give anything away. Okay. But there's a part of it that I think is so dark that I can't. I can't even go there, Kristen. No. Patty, please bleep that. All right.

I'll quit guessing. Quit guessing. All right. All right. Now I'm so excited. Okay. I'm excited for you to cover it. Just because I know that we cover cases so differently, you will cover it in a totally

different way than I would have. So you might not even go into the thing that I can't handle about the case. Well, now I'm, you got me so freaking curious. You're right. We do cover things very differently. We do. Yeah. I mean, if people haven't figured that out by now, I don't know.

I mean, it's like I'm respectful to victims and you're a jerk. No. I'm respectful to victims and you're a jerk. No! No! No, think about the time that we showed up basically to do the same case. Yes. And like you had miraculously pulled another case out of your ass in like five minutes.

Yep. It was terrible. But yeah, we had different things to offer about that same case. You know what sucked about that? What? Was, you know, since you were at work that day and I was the only one who could start my case over. Yeah. I listened to you tell it.

It was Mary Kay Letourneau for Patreon. Plug. Yes. And you did a better job than I would have. I did not. No, you did. You did. You did. Randy, I'm a big enough man to tell you.

But in case you're like, oh, my Patreon. Oh, my Patreon. What's that? Where can I hear this Mary and Kayla Turnow episode? Which was so stressful because we found out at like 3 o'clock that day that we were both covering the same case. We were both covering the same case. Yeah, if you want to listen to that, plus 23 other bonus episodes, that's at the $5 level on our Patreon. Woo!

At that level, you also get into the Discord to chit and chat and chit and chat. And at the $7 level, you get all that plus a monthly Zoom call. Woo! Hanging out on the Zoom. No one's sick of that. And then... That's not selling it, Kristen. I'm just saying, I think people in general are a little sick of Zoom.

But, you know, when it's us... Yeah, it's for funsies. It's for funzos. It's because you want to be there. That's right. Yeah, not because your stupid boss is making you. Anyway, so at that level, you also get a sticker.

You get a card with our lovely autographs. You get inducted into the podcast. I'm sorry, I forgot what word I was supposed to say. You get inducted. Brandi, tell them what happens at the Bob Moss level, the $10 level. Oh, my gosh. You get all that stuff that Kristen already mentioned. Plus, you get ad-free episodes and you get them a day early.

Plus, 10% off merch. Announcement time. Beep, beep, beep. Beep, beep, beep. Breaking news. This just in. We have new merch. Ooh.

Our hoodies are back in stock. Juvenile Bigfoot hoodies. They're super cute. Yes. And because we realized maybe not everyone wants to put on a hoodie right now. Yeah. In August. Is it August?

It sure is. Breaking news. Brandi knows what month it is. We have skeezy skunch tank tops. Ooh. And we also have mugs. Oh. And if, I tell you what, we always give our patrons a little heads up so that they can

get the stuff first. We do super limited runs. Yes. Very small runs in our pantyhose. I was, oh my God. I was just about to say the same thing, but I stopped myself. Why are we so weird? We are really weird.

Okay, so anyway, lgtcpodcast.com, that's where the store is. And if we're out of stuff, then that means we're super rich now. No. And we're not going to talk to you anymore. No, we will still do the podcast. Wouldn't that be funny? If I was like, well, I sold 50 tank tops. No, no.

Done. All right, shall we? Oh, wait. We have an ad. We have to do an ad. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm so excited about the Missouri miracle.

I almost forgot about how excited I am about it. All right. All right, now tell us about a miracle. You don't seem excited to hear about the miracle. I am excited about how excited I am about. All right. All right. Now tell us about a miracle. You don't seem excited to hear about the miracle. I am very excited about the miracle. Okay. This is killing me. Should I wait until the end to find out what was a part that you couldn't handle?

Well, I can tell you it now and we can cut it. I know, but I'm wondering if I should wait with the listeners. I will wait with the listeners. Damn it, but I don't want to! Okay. First of all, thank you to Two Raccoons in a Trench Coat for suggesting this case in our Discord. And that's somebody's name, not

Two Raccoons in a Trench Coat. Raccoons love this story. Shoutouts to Tim O'Neill, who did some excellent reporting in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. But boy, if his headline doesn reporting in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. But boy, if his headline doesn't give the whole thing away, so, you know. Don't include that. Nope. Thanks, Tim.

Also, many thanks to Wikipedia. And the hugest of shout outs to Malcolm Gay, who wrote a very thorough article titled, Monster Next Door? Question mark? It's almost as if you wrote the headline. It is. In the Riverfront Times. And although it is a great article, I am not going to let Malcolm off the hook

for what is easily the bitchiest physical description of a person I have ever read. Oh, no! Here? Okay, no shit. Here is how his article begins. With a six-foot, four-inch frame straining under roughly 300 pounds, much of it earned during nearly a quarter century's labor at a pizza shop,

it's hard to imagine that Michael J. Devlin did not stand out. I hate that. Oh, yeah. So, fun fact, Malcolm did not win a Pulitzer for this story, but he did win a bronze medal for fat shaming. Yeah. And for that, we applaud him. Yeah. Wow.

Uh-huh. Anyway. Okay. That stuff's kind of sprinkled throughout. It's a little weird. Yeah. A little weird. Okay.

Also, I'm like, okay. Also, Oh, spoiler alert! Patty, please bleep that, my good! No, here's the thing. Here's what I was thinking. As someone who lives in the great state of Missouri, a chubby

man is not like, Whoa! Whoa! Oh my god! A chubby man is not like, whoa! Whoa! Oh, my God! Let's all drink a can of beer! What is it? Yes, I'm kind of like, okay, where's this reporter from? He's like scandalized.

Anyway, all right. So here we go. So what was Michael Devlin like exactly? Well, it completely depended on who you asked. He lived in the great state of Missouri, as I've mentioned. Specifically, he lived in Kirkwood, Missouri, which is a suburb of St. Louis. And Michael was a manager at Emo's Pizza. Have you ever had Emo's Pizza?

I have. What'd you think? I'm not a fan. Yeah. Here's why. Why? They use provolone instead of mozzarella. That's St. Louis-style pizza.

Hmm. Not good? That's not for me. I mean, I think a lot of people like it. Okay, okay. Well, I mean... Emo's did not do well in Kansas City. They have one in Midtown. Oh, okay. Emo's did not do well in Kansas City. They have one

in Midtown. Oh, there's still one here? And every time we pass it, Norm goes, that place is gross. I don't like their pizza. Yeah. So I've not had the pleasure. Yes. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that Emo's Pizza sells original St. Louis-style pizza. Clearly I don't.

Or that they are the 32nd largest pizza chain in the United States. So why don't you suck on that, Salvatore's Old Fashioned Pizzeria? What was that, number 33? No, they were like 50-something. But I wanted to find a name that seemed a little dignified to tell suck it to. You know what I'm saying. Poor Salvatore's.

So yeah, Michael was pretty much killing it. He'd been working at Emo's for, like, 25 years, and his boss thought he was awesome. Because Michael was very well-versed on the latest news. And that's an important quality in the manager of a pizzeria. Also in your hairstylist. I mean, I don't like that you're selling this like that's a negative thing about him. I like to be well-versed in the current events as well. Quit saying stuff.

Hearing that this article was titled Monster Next Door didn't give it away. Oh, I think it did. Because there was a question mark. There was a question mark. They're like, is this a good guy? Is he a monster? I don't know. Or did people think he was a monster because of the audacity to be 6'4 and 300 pounds?

His body strained under it. So he knew the news, and that's a terrible quality in a person. So Michael was so well-spoken. He could talk about any subject. I hate people like that. Shut up. I do. Because I think it's fake.

I think they're just talking out their asses. No one knows something about everything, right? There's stuff I don't know. Well, yeah, no shit. That's what I'm it's fake. I think they're just talking out their asses. No one knows something about everything, right? There's stuff I don't know. Well, yeah, no shit. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. All right. Are you feeling personally attacked?

I am. You are, aren't you? I'm very defensive here. Why? I don't know. Okay. Because I, too, can talk about a lot of subjects. Because I, too, can talk about a lot of subjects.

He did super awesome personable things like shaking customers' hands and cracking jokes. Okay, I don't know if it's just the COVID talking, but when I go into a restaurant, I don't want anyone shaking my hand. No, not shaking anybody's hand. No. No, thank you. Pre-COVID, too. Yeah. Are you feeling a little less attacked because we finally found something that you don't do? Yes.

In the evenings when Michael wasn't managing the pizza shop, he answered phones at Bopchapel Funeral Home. No. So he stayed busy. No. So he stayed busy. But in his free time, the author of the Riverfront Times article would like you to know that even though Michael was a smoker who didn't play sports, he occasionally told his coworkers that he spent his day off painting rooms at his mother's house or rollerblading. Which we all know can't possibly be true because if you're a fat smoker, the paintbrush just falls right out of your hand.

Seriously, this article was a little weird. And maybe someone else would read this and not find this stuff, so maybe I'm just being a little weird. But I thought there was a little tinge of... Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know. I find it perfectly reasonable that he could have been painting rooms and rollerblading. But then in 2002, Michael was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. And it was a huge bummer. He lost a couple toes, which made rollerblading damn near impossible.

And he became quieter and more withdrawn. Plus, his friends all started getting married and wanting to hang out with their spouses, which meant that hardly anyone could show up for his poker games. So Michael was sad. It seemed all he wanted to do was, like, you know, drink Mountain Dew all day, which he did, like a a champ during his day job he had the soda fountain right there and he just drank Mountain Dew talked about the news shook people's hands all the live long day one of his co-workers thought he was a complete dick and that is a quote excellent but that was just one person's opinion. You know, most people at work thought Michael was a pretty good guy.

But that mindset really didn't carry over to Michael's apartment complex. His neighbors thought he was weird. And if they didn't think he was weird, they thought he was just plain rude. Michael lived in a cheap apartment building and people tended to move in and out a lot. But not him. Michael had lived in his ground floor unit for several years. And he did not talk to his neighbors. And they did not talk to him.

Are you feeling attacked again? Do you talk to your neighbors? I'm friendly to my neighbors. You know, I just do. I don't really talk to them, but you do the wave thing. Do the wave. Hello. You're a human.

Yeah. Well, he was not nodding. Yeah. No, I'm, you know, I'm a smiler, so. You are a smiler. Yes. I am a smiler to a fault. It will get somebody to walk over and talk to me when that's not at all what I was trying to do. You need to do the default frown.

Yeah, I can't do that. I do not possess the RBF. Wow. I have, like, the opposite, where if I, like, accidentally make eye contact with someone, I immediately smile instead of doing the thing where you, like, look away. So that they know you don't want to kill them or something? I don't know! Okay.

All right. All right. So, no one really bothered him at the apartment complex. But he sure bothered them. One time at like two in the morning, Michael got home and saw that someone had taken his parking spot. Did they have a sign to parking? You know what? I assumed they did.

I assumed they did. Yeah assumed they did, yeah. Okay. So what did he do about this? He probably went and found whoever was in his spot and knocked on their door at 2 a.m. and demanded that they move. Believe it or not, that's actually a much more chill response than what he did. What did he do? At 2 in the morning. Can I guess?

Yeah. Did he lay on his horn at two in the morning? Yes! Yes! Yeah, so finally one of the neighbors got up and was like, look dude, I need my beauty sleep. I'm gonna kick your ass if you don't stop honking that horn. And Michael liked his ass

just the way it was, unkicked. So he got scared and he just took off down the road. Oh my gosh. Another time, the exact same thing happened. Someone parked in Michael's parking space. And like a really chill dude, Michael called 911. Can you imagine? 911, what's your emergency?

Oh, please come quickly. Someone has taken my parking spot. They stole it in broad daylight. So officers came out and they talked to Michael and they talked to Michael's son, Sean. And the person who parked in the parking space was arrested and promptly executed. Because that's what happens when you take someone's parking space. Yeah. But we're not here to discuss that very real court case. Okay.

So let's keep talking about Michael. By the way, you made a face. What's wrong? Talked to his son, Sean, huh? Yeah. He has a son? Sure does. Okay.

Depends on who you ask um is it um a godson family friend son you know just yeah don't worry about it okay okay so everyone in his apartment complex thought he was a rude loner weirdo and they thought his son sean Sean, seemed so sad. One neighbor said she never saw him smile. The boy kept to himself. He was homeschooled, apparently. And he was 100% Michael Devlin's kid, so don't worry about it. Just shut up, okay? Okay.

Sure thing. Anyway, let me tell you a totally unrelated story about a... About the time a kid named Sean went missing. That's exactly right. Yes. It was Monday, October 7th, 2002, and 11-year-old Sean Hornbeck was missing. He'd last been seen riding his bike at around 4.30 the previous day. He was riding to a friend's house.

It was a route he did all the time. He was riding to a friend's house. It was a route he did all the time. Sean lived with his parents, Pam and Craig Akers, in Richwoods, Missouri, which is a very rural, unincorporated community, like about an hour outside St. Louis, I think. So as soon as word got out that Sean was missing, the community just pulled together and started searching for him. But it was really tough. This area used to be a mining community, so there were abandoned mine shafts everywhere, there were sinkholes everywhere, and a bunch of people were like, oh my god, did this kid fall down one of these things? Yeah. What are we going to do?

So they just searched and searched and searched, but no one could find him. They couldn't even find his bike or like a scrap of his clothing. He had vanished without a trace. Eventually, once they'd searched all over the place, on bike and by foot and by car and by ATV, police started to wonder if Sean had been abducted. Sean's mom, Pam, and his stepdad Craig went all out trying to find Sean. When the search for him stalled out, they set up the Sean Hornbeck Foundation to help look for missing and abducted children. They spent like all of their money and emptied their retirement accounts to pay for private investigators to help the police. Wow. But nothing seemed to help. No amount of money, and it seemed no amount of work, could get them anywhere. Sean was gone,

probably dead. At one point, Pam and Craig went on the Montel Williams show to help bring publicity to the case. And on the show, a psychic gave them the sad news that their son was dead. Sylvia Brown? Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. Do you really?

Yes. Yeah. I gotta say, there are a lot of fucked up parts of this story. Yeah. That is so fucked up. Yeah. Yeah, it's super fucked up. of this story. Yeah. That is so fucked up. Yeah. Yeah, it's super fucked up. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. So you watched the show? Yeah, I remember the episode of Montel. What do you remember about it? Just that. I mean, we used to watch a lot of Montel when I was a kid. Yeah, I know. Yeah. I know.

We'd get on the phone and talk about the episodes together. But yeah, I do. I specifically remember that episode. Well, that's a great story. All right. I'm sorry. I can offer you no more details. Years passed.

But Pam and Craig never gave up hope. They never stopped searching for Sean. Even when it seemed obvious that he had to be dead, they kept searching. And, you know, they were right. Sean wasn't dead. On the day he went missing, Sean was riding his bike to his friend's house. And a man came up behind him in a truck. And the man ran his truck into Sean, knocking him off the bike.

And the man jumped out of the truck and was like, oh, no, are you okay? But then that man, Michael Devlin, put Sean in the back of his truck and said, you were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Oh, I hate that. Mm-hmm. Michael took Sean back to his apartment and tied him up. He kept 11-year-old Sean tied up for an entire month. At one point, he began strangling Sean, but Sean got a few words out, and he promised Michael he'd never tell anyone what he'd done. words out and he promised Michael he'd never tell anyone what he'd done. It was a promise that Sean made in an attempt to survive and it worked. Over the next few years, Michael did horrible things

to Sean, including, of course, sexual abuse and would at times limit Sean's sleep by waking him up every 45 minutes. Oh my gosh. He told people that he was Sean's father or sometimes his godfather, sometimes a family friend, but it didn't matter because no one recognized Sean. Okay, so slight pause here. The thing that overwhelmingly seems like the hardest part of this to understand for people is that over time, Michael gave Sean quite a bit of freedom. Yeah, but he was conditioned. Exactly. And so I'm going to go through this, but I think you and I are going to land in the exact same place on this.

I'm just going to say this stuff. Sometimes Sean was allowed to drive Michael's truck. He was allowed to ride his bike. Sean had a friend who slept over sometimes, and when he got older, he even got a girlfriend and went with her to a school dance. Michael also gave Sean a cell phone and internet access. At one point, Sean found the website that his parents had set up to help find him, and on the message board, he wrote, had set up to help find him. And on the message board, he wrote,

how long are you going to look for your son? And he signed his name, Sean Devlin. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Oh, I just got goosebumps. Yeah. His parents, years later, remembered that message. Saying that? Mm-hmm.

Oh. They said, you know, obviously you get a lot of weird messages. Of course. And that one stuck out as a little weird just because they had always been so adamant, we will always look for our son. Yeah. So Sean had some freedoms, and he had also had contact with the police. The police spoke to him briefly when Michael called the cops about that freaking parking spot.

And at some point, someone stole Sean's bike. So he called the police and reported the theft. But again, he told them his name was Sean Devlin. So just like you were saying, it could be that he was conditioned. I think it's very likely he was terrified. Yeah. To do, I mean, someone just snatches you up in broad daylight and you're 11. Yeah.

Yeah, you're going to do what you need to do to survive. Absolutely. And another source said that he, Sean believed that if he were to try anything, that Michael would harm his family. Absolutely. Yeah. If this guy has done all this stuff to you, why not kill your family too? That doesn't seem far-fetched at all. Not at all. So, you know, other people think maybe Stockholm syndrome. But in this article for the Riverfront

Times, I think the Washington County Sheriff put it really well. So I'm just going to read his quote. This is something that is so bizarre that the normal individual cannot grasp what this then 11-year-old boy went through. There is no way that anybody can project onto Sean what he could have, should have, or would have done. Nobody knows. Nobody was in that situation. done. Nobody knows. Nobody was in that situation. Absolutely. Yes. 100%. Yeah. By this point, Sean had been missing for four and a half years. What? I would even go so far as to say there's a very real possibility that he felt some attachment to Michael Devlin after all that he had put him through. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't think any of that is far-fetched. I don't think so either. Yeah, people online are very like, what? Yeah. No, I think you do what you have to do to survive. Absolutely. And we don't need to be sitting from our high horses saying, oh, well, I would have done it this way. I can't believe he didn't call his parents the second he got that cell phone. I know what I would have done.

I would have just drove in straight. Drove in. These people were imitating. That's right. They don't know. Karen doesn't know proper grammar. But she does know what she would do

if she'd been 11 and kidnapped. She would have just got on her bike and gone straight to that police department and said, hi, I'm that missing

Sean Hornbeck. Please take me home. Yeah. Yeah,hmm. Yeah. Yeah, fuck those people. So, you know, like I said, by this point, he had been kidnapped for four and a half years. Yeah. And truth be told, get ready to puke,

Sean was officially getting too old for Michael. That's the part. That's the part that you can't handle. That's the part that I cannot handle. It's so dark. Yeah. Yeah. The fact that he aged out.

Yeah. Yeah. Like he was with him for so long. Yeah. Yeah. Like he was with him for so long. Yeah. Yeah. So on that disgusting note, let's talk about what happened on Monday, January 8th, 2007. That day, Michael went into work at Emo's and asked for you. And he was like, oh, oh, oh, I'm feeling sick.

Oh, let me have some more Mountain Dew, the healing nectar of the gods. Oh, no, it's making me worse. It'll tickle your innards. You know what? I think this was the first red flag about this guy. Anybody who drinks that amount of Mountain Dew. Yep. There's something really wrong.

Yeah. So, you know, Michael's just like, oh, my life's so hard. Oh, no. Tummy trouble. And his boss was like, oh, my gosh, okay, tell you what. How about you help me

get through the lunch rush and then you can get out of here early. And Michael was like, oh, I guess it's fine. And he powered through the lunch rush like a true hero. And then Michael left work a little before 1 because he was super sick and definitely not faking it. But they call this case the Missouri Miracle because when Michael got home that day, he felt better right away.

It was a miracle. Miracles happen. That's right. There can be miracles when you believe. You leave the emote and lay down on your couch. So since he was feeling better, he went out and searched for another boy to abduct. You know how that goes. You're like, man, I thought I felt like poo-poo butter, but turns

out I want to go abduct a kid. Yeah. Cool. Oh, this story's terrible! This is the worst kid ever! So he got into his rusty white pickup truck and he drove out to Beaufort,

Missouri. Which I'm assuming is pronounced the same way as Beaufort, South Carolina. I don't know. I've been to Beaufort. Missouri? South Carolina. Oh, okay. Beaufort is an unincorporated area about an hour southwest of St. Louis. You sense it a theme, kind of like about a 60- mile radius. Yep. And here's what I couldn't figure out if this was just luck or if he had planned this out a little bit, but Michael spotted a school bus. He waited for the bus to stop and 13 yearold Ben Ownby got off and headed down the gravel road to his house. Ben was literally 500 feet from home when he was abducted.

That is terrifying. Yeah. And he was 13. Like, you don't worry about a 13-year-old getting on and off the school bus. That's a good point. Yeah. Okay. And this is, I don't know if there's a way to say this without sounding a little weird.

But initially when I'd read the stuff about like Sean had aged out, but then he goes and picks up a 13-year-old. I was like, well, that doesn't make sense. But when you see pictures that's kind of one of those weird things about that age where you know some kids just look way older some kids look exactly their age and there's always some kids who look much much younger

and I think Ben just looked much younger does that sound gross? I mean this whole story is gross the whole story is terrible I don't think it's any grosser The whole story is terrible. Okay. Yes. All right. I don't think it's any grosser than any other part. Patty, bleep this entire episode.

And I think you can all see why I have started this case multiple times. I've been like, no, I cannot do it. Honestly, I can't see why because you have covered so many terrible things. To me, this is like on par with all the other terrible things you've covered. See, it's such a different, I don't know, it's a different side of it to me. Well, you know what? I go hard after the Mountain Dew. That's right.

And the handshaking. And, you know, I'm going to do a real light touch with all the gross stuff. Sexual abuse, yeah. Yeah. Although I would argue that drinking that much Mountain Dew is gross stuff. That is gross stuff. And probably should be censored from this podcast. Unless it's Mountain Dew Code Red.

You know I love Mountain Dew Code Red. Okay, and you know what I love. What do you love? Okay, and you know what I love? What do you love? Mountain Dew Baja Blast Zero, which they now have in cans in the grocery store. Is this an ad? This used to be a Taco Bell exclusive.

We've talked about this before. Yes, we have. It is now in 12 packs at your local grocery store. There's one in my fridge right now. Use the promo code LGTC. Just shout LGTC at the grocery store checkout person. They'll know. They'll know what to do. They'll start clickety clacking away.

You'll get that discount, no problem. So anyway, Ben was abducted 500 feet from his home. And when he didn't come home, obviously his family freaked out. They called the police and the police investigated and determined that Ben hadn't been talking to any Internet weirdos. His home life was good. His school life was good. He got straight A's. He was a science Olympiad.

He was a Boy Scout. So probably not a runaway. So he had to have been the victim of foul play. But no one had any idea where Ben Ownby was. They didn't have a clue. But finally, a 15-year-old kid named Mitchell Holtz came forward and was like, hey, I might have seen something. Okay, so here's the deal. Mitchell had gotten off the bus right after Ben. I've got goosebumps. Holy shit. Okay, and the thing about Mitchell is Mitchell loves trucks, like freaking

loves trucks. So when he got off the bus, he spotted an old white Nissan pickup. It had a camper shell on the back and it was dirty and it was rusted. He hadn't seen Ben get into the truck. He hadn't even seen who was driving the truck. But he had seen a truck and he was able to describe it very well. So some sources were a little fuzzy on this um but overall it really seems like he did not see ben get into the truck so investigators were like well you know if that's all we have that's more than nothing we have yeah so franklin county sheriff gary tolkey went to the

media and he was like hey everybody be on the lookout for a shitty old white pickup truck. And that's a direct quote because he was a little inappropriate. So the news went out far and wide and soon everyone was taking a closer look at their local shitty white pickup trucks. By the way, here's a cute story. Ready for a cute story? Yeah. Okay. Back at Emo's Pizza in Kirkwood, the gang at the pizza joint started teasing Michael

because he drove a truck just like the one they were describing on the news. Oh my gosh, isn't that funny? And he'd gotten off early the day of the kidnapping and taken a sick day the day after the kidnapping. Nobody put that together. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, they don't have the sense to put mozzarella on a pizza. That's right. So what are we expecting, really?

Yeah, so Michael's co-workers were like, you aren't the creep, are you? And Michael was like, you aren't the creep, are you? And Michael was like, no. And they were like, we love it here. We're like a family here. We work hard and we play hard. Oh, the stories we could tell. This place is like a sitcom. Oh, my God.

That might be a slight exaggeration. I just got so pissed off. When I was like, really? Really? Yeah, you guys put all that together, but didn't take, like, any... You're, like, an hour away from where the kidnapping happened. Yeah. There's a creepy guy who...

I'm sorry. Has the exact same car. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, anyway. So, a while later, after Michael was done giggling with his co-workers about the fact that his vehicle matched the description

of a kidnapper's, the police were called out to Michael's apartment complex. They were called out on something totally unrelated. What? To the kidnapping? We can only assume that someone parked in someone else's space because that's what you do. Yeah. You call 911.

That's right. Drop everything. Call 911. Someone's in my parking spot. That's why 911 was set up. No. Nobody listened to this. This is terrible advice Kristen's giving you. So these two officers were at the apartment complex.

I think somebody had to warrant out, so they were just going to go do that. And once they were done with that, one of them stopped cold. And saw the truck? Yes. Okay. Okay, so picture this. So he spotted Michael's 1991 white rusted pickup truck with a camper shell on the back. And the officer turned to his partner

and said are you seeing what i'm seeing and around that same time as they were looking at the truck a neighbor came by and was like hey uh yeah that truck matches the one from the news and just so you know the guy who owns that truck is a big weirdo and he lives in apartment D right there. Okay, bye. So that person is also a hero. Yeah. And then, in a weird twist, Michael just happened to walk out of his apartment to take some trash to the dumpster and the officers were like,

holy shit, that's the pizza guy. Because the emo's pizza was like right by the police station and they were frequent flyers. So they approached him real casual and michael was his normal chatty self you know he like all terrible people is well cut up on his news what else makes you similar to him do you rollerblade yes i rollerblade i wish rollerblading would come back it's so fun i clearly do I rollerblade. I wish rollerblading would come back. It's so fun. I clearly do not rollerblade. Clearly do not rollerblade? No, I do not have the balance to rollerblade.

Well, neither do I. It would be a disaster. And I work with my hands, so it would be a real recipe for disaster. What is? Oh, my God. I'm picturing the headline. Hairstylist's career cut short by rollerblading accident. Cut short.

Very good. Get it? Yeah. I used to write headlines. Let's see. What else? What else could we... Oh, shit.

Now you got me thinking about... Oh, no. All right. me thinking about... Oh, no. All right. Well, I was never very good at writing headlines. I think you peaked. I think that was perfect. Probably. That was probably my only good headline I've ever written.

Okay. So, they go up to Michael. He's like, chit-chatting. You know, Michael, always shaking hands and cracking jokes. But then the officers started to ask rude questions. Like, hey, what's the deal with your truck? Or, hey, you have any young boys in your apartment? Mm-hmm.

Hey, could we look inside your apartment? And, hey, are you a big, creepy kidnapper? And Michael was very offended. He was like, no, you can't come in here. and Michael was very offended. He was like, no, you can't come in here. One of the officers later told our lord and savior, Ms. Oprah Winfrey, he got all squirrely on me.

I was like, something ain't right. So Michael was telling them they couldn't come in, but, you know, he couldn't stop them from peeping in the windows, and when they did, they spotted a boy. But the boy didn't match ben's description no because sean hornbeck has been missing for four and a half years yeah but they were still suspicious enough that they called in the franklin county police and the highway patrol and somehow got the FBI involved, though I'm not sure how because none of the articles mentioned the mayor being involved. I was going to say, did they call the mayor?

Big mystery. I mean, clearly, there are missing parts of these articles, obviously. Yes, obviously. Good Lord. So soon, all kinds of officers were all over Michael's apartment complex, and they were like, can we come in? And he was like, no. And then, you know, another group would, how about come in and he was like no and then you know another group would how about us and he's like no and all the little officers and all their little uniforms

were like oh so it's like that huh and then they just sat outside his apartment all night what yeah they were like yeah we know this guy's real creepy i think by this point they were like that other boy oh shit yeah you know yeah so you know they're there all night did they pee in bottles what kind of snacks did they have did any of them get to fall asleep while someone else took the first watch these are the questions that none of the articles bothered to answer. I know. And they are the questions that I want to know the answers to. Yeah.

This is when we need a Texas Monthly article. Texas Monthly. They don't care about the word count. They do not. We'll do 50,000 words on this crowd. Yes. The next morning, Michael got up to go to work.

And a whole mess of investigators followed him to Emo's. They stopped him in the parking lot and they asked him about Ben Ownby. And then, right there in the freaking pizzeria parking lot, Michael confessed.

What? I know. Right? He did? He told them he'd taken Ben Ownby and said, I'm a bad person. And Brandy, I'm a bad person because I just burped and it smells really bad. I was going to say, I'm a bad person sounds like a bit of an understatement. You know what he should have said? I've done a bad thing.

Because he'd been listening to Brene Brown. He's like, I'm not going to deal with the shame of all this. I'm not a bad person. I've just done a bad thing. And then everyone, including Brene Brown, is like, no, you're a bad fucking person. Anyway. and then everyone including Brene Brown is like no you're a bad fucking person anyway I believe he left out one minor detail which was that he'd also kidnapped another boy who was back at his apartment

but you know at any rate investigators were now able to search the apartment and when they did they found Ben and they found Sean and this time unlike all the other times when Sean referred to himself as Sean Devlin Sean told the officers that he was Sean Hornbeck. He was the boy who'd been missing for four and a half years. This was mind blowing.

Soon word got out and people began referring to this as the Missouri miracle. How incredible that Ben Obrey had been found and that Sean Hornbeck had been found at the same time and that he was alive yeah this this is crazy Ben's family was overjoyed and Sean's family who had never given up hope finally had their boy back and none of this would have been possible without the help of 15 year old Mitchell Hz, who'd given such an accurate description of Michael's truck. I've got goosebumps. That is wild. So even though Mitchell was only 15,

they just gave him a truck as a thank you for being awesome. They did? Yeah. I think the whole community was like, you know what, kid? If you really love trucks that much, here you go. You'll be 16 soon enough. That's right.

Meanwhile, authorities locked up Michael Devlin real quick. His bond in Franklin County was $1 million cash. Oh, wow. I don't think I've ever heard that. His bond in Washington County was $3 million. Both counties charged him with kidnapping, and the kidnapping of Sean Hornbeck came with additional charges because he'd used a gun. Naturally. Oh, and here's when the story gets really sad.

This was a very hard time for Michael. Oh, fuck off. Yeah, I know. Fuck off to everyone who doesn't feel for Michael, right? See, first he lost his toes and now this. In a jailhouse interview, he told the media, I don't know how I'm going to explain myself to my parents. It's much easier talking to a stranger about these things than your own parents.

He also... What? What? What? he also what what I don't know how I'm going to explain this to my parents yeah like you raped kids you kidnapped kids and the thing that you're real caught up on

is how do I tell my parents holy shit he also complained because none of his family had visited visited him oh and he had a very large family so that you know that didn't make sense oh right also the jail was boring and it was noisy at night so he was having trouble sleeping oh i do feel real bad for him oh yeah you know we've all had those restless nights and that's no good. Then he told the

reporter that he loved video games and poker and wasn't that into sex. I'm gonna disagree there. No, it's true. Not into sex, but super into rape. You're right. You're

absolutely right. Yes. You're absolutely right yes you're absolutely right consenting adult don't make me vomit oh unwilling children oh sign me up oh except for no because michael apparently wasn't into kidnapping little boys either because he pled not guilty. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's... Dude, they were in your apartment. In your apartment. And you confessed already in the emo's pizza parking lot.

That's actually a confessional for the police. The prosecution was unamused. the prosecution was unamused and i'm not talking about the prosecutors for washington county or franklin county where the abductions occurred i'm talking about the st louis county prosecutor because just a few weeks later he was like hmm you know what i'm charging you with 71 new felonies we're just gonna stack those on top of your existing charges and you're going to hate it, you whiny little beaver, because each of these new charges carry the possibility of life in prison. Good. Lock him up forever.

But, Brandy, that jail is boring. I don't fucking care. And sometimes he can't get a full eight hours. Okay? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. He conditioned Sean Hornbeck by waking him up every 45 minutes. Yep.

He's a piece of shit through and through. By the way, I'm a little weird here about the charges and there's the number of charges for what he did to Ben, for what he did to Sean. It's all just gross stuff. So let's just leave it at that. Yeah, a whole bunch of gross stuff. That's as detailed as we need to be.

Things were not looking good for Michael Devlin, a.k.a. the world's biggest creep. In that interview he gave where he complained about not sleeping well and how he'd just been lonely because his friends had gotten married and moved away. Well, that really sucked for the defense's already shitty case. Yeah. Oh, God. Can you imagine trying to defend this guy?

It would be impossible. Yeah. You'd be like, dude, come on. Yeah. What angle do you even take? You take the plea deal angle. impossible. Yeah. You'd be like, dude, come on. Yeah. What angle do you even take? You take the plea deal. Yeah. Yeah.

If they'll give it to you. Yeah. So Michael's defense attorneys, Ethan, is it Corleha or Corleja? I don't know. And Michael Kelty were like, hey, judge, can we get a gag order against the New York Post? That was the outlet he did the interview with. We'd really like it if they'd shut up. Also, can you force that reporter to turn over all her notes to us?

And Judge David Tobin was like, nice try. Go home. No. But I'll ask you, Brandy. Does it sound like we're done with the charges? I don't know. Oh, we are not. Okay, there's more. But wait, there's more.

On the 1st of March, Michael got some new federal charges for producing child porn and transporting a minor across state lines to engage in sexual activity. Excellent. And the following month, the prosecutor for Washington County was like, no fair. I want to add some more charges. And everyone was like, have at it. We hate this guy. So he added a charge for attempted murder of Sean Hornbeck and a bunch of other stuff. Then things were quiet for a while. And I imagine Michael and his poor defense attorneys were getting sweatier by the minute. I assume he had public defenders.

Yeah. And finally, on October 6th, the gaggle of prosecutors was like, guess what? The shitbag is pleading guilty to all charges in all four jurisdictions. You have to. You have to. You wouldn't have to. You could. Here's the thing. you could drag it out.

You could make the victims. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it. Yeah, I guess that's right. You absolutely could make the victims have to testify against you. In separate trials. I mean, that'd just be hell. Terrible.

Yeah. Over the next few days, they held a guilty plea parade. They took him to one county and he was like, guilty. And They took him to one county and he was like, guilty. And they took him to another place and he was like, guilty. And they took him to another and on and on it went with this shit bag collecting sentence after sentence after sentence. To the point that just three days after the prosecutors announced he would plead guilty, Michael Devlin had been ordered to spend the next 1,850 years in prison. I think that'll cover it. But wait, there's more!

What? A few months later, he was sentenced to another 170 years for child pornography. Wow. To put it another way, he is currently serving 71 life sentences. Wow. And after that, they shipped Michael off to prison in Cameron, Missouri, which is a hellish place to be, even if you're not in their prison. You ever been to Cameron?

I think I have. Have you really? Yeah, I think so. What on earth for? I just went through it, not like I hung out in Cameron, Missouri. Okay. Yeah. That's where my grandpa was held at the VA home when he had Alzheimer's.

Oh, yeah. Oh, man. And you know, okay, that was during the Hillary Trump election. Uh-huh. People love it when I talk about Trump. It's fine. And I remember at that time in Kansas City, it was only Hillary signs. Yeah.

And like one super old guy in our neighborhood had a Trump sign and it's like okay well that guy's 90 he's a 90 year old white guy of course he has one yeah went out to Cameron just Trump as far as the country and I was like wow would you look at this this is weird but then you know Trump won the election so it's like I guess I'm weird I don't know they do have nice antique stores anyway that's like, I guess I'm weird. I don't know. They do have nice antique stores. Anyway, that's my story. I'm Cameron Missouri. Excellent. So, prison officials

were a little concerned about their ability to keep Michael safe. There was talk of maybe sending him to an out-of-state prison or giving him a new name, but once Sean and Ben's family members heard about that, they were like, uh, no, he's fine. We will not be protecting him. Yeah, he abducted and raped little boys so he can stay here in the great state of Missouri

and he can keep his real name. All right? Okay. But, um, boy, you look bummed out. Are you okay? I'm fine. I'm fine. Okay, well, here's the thing about being a child molester in prison. Yeah, you don't do well.

Yeah. So... One day, a guy named Troy Fenton, who was also an inmate at the prison in Cameron, took the metal guide bars off of his typewriter and he sharpened them and hid them under his pillow. He named one of the weapons Sean and the other one Ben. And then on April 9th, 2011, during breakfast, Troy walked up to Michael and gave him the old stabby stabby.

Really? Yeah. And the corrections officer saw it and they were like, hey, stop. And so Troy stopped. He dropped to the ground and Michael just had superficial wounds. So he's fine. And who cares? Yeah.

I'm disappointing if I'm being completely honest. Should I not have said that? Yeah. I don't give a shit. Yeah. And, you know, obviously I've said many times I'm against the death penalty, but that's really more because I'm worried about. Yeah, the typical people who are put to death about how. Yeah.

Yeah. About like how racism. Yes, exactly. But in a situation where we're 100 percent sure we've got someone who did something 100 percent terrible. Yeah. I'm you know, maybe I don't think I don't think the state should be putting anybody to death, but I'm not going to be like, oh, no. Oh, no. Stabbed in the chat.

Not Michael. Everyone's best friend, Michael. Yeah. You know, I hear he was up to date on all the news. He's probably great at trivia. It's fine. You know what his real name is?

Brandy Egan. Stop it. I was like, this is going to be some stupid joke. And I was correct. I have been amazed at how defensive you are. So this case is kind of old at this point, but it recently came back into the news. Do you remember this? No. Okay. point but it recently came back into the news did you do you remember this no okay in december of 2020 a guy named kevin palmer who lives in canada and he was volunteering at a non-profit that works

to prevent human trafficking he was on the youtubes and watching videos about kids who'd been abducted and he came across the story about sean and ben and And he started watching the video, and as soon as it cut to a shot of Michael Devlin, he was like, holy shit, that's him. Okay, way back in the day, Kevin's dad had married his stepmom, and his stepmom was from Robinson, Illinois, which I think is like two and a half hours outside St. Louis. So in December of 1998, when Kevin was 14, he says he was walking back from a video rental store.

Duh. Blockbuster. Blockbuster. Hollywood video? Could have been. Could have been. Video library. Family video.

Oh. There's many choices. Probably still a blockbuster. Yeah. When an ugly guy in a pickup truck, that's his word, not mine, but I do agree, pulled up next to him and offered him a ride. And Kevin was like, no thanks. And the dude got pissed. And he said, nah, boy, just get in the truck.

And Kevin bolted back home, filed a police report. Obviously nothing ever came of it. But he says he never forgot the man's ugly face and when he saw that video he recognized michael devlin as the guy who tried to abduct him 22 years earlier holy shit he's now asking the fbi to bring additional charges against michael personally i'm like we got him you know like that's not a good enough case. But anyway, I don't doubt that that happened. I completely believe it happened. I don't doubt that there are probably a ton of people.

Well, that's exactly what I was going to say. You don't have that much, pardon the word, success with your first kidnapping attempt. No. I don't think that. Yeah. I totally think Ben and Sean are not the only victims. Yes. And I think there are a lot of people who had probably a lot of close calls.

Yeah. So there's another case. I didn't write this part down of a boy who this sounds very similar to Ben and Sean. I believe he was on his bike. He was kind of around that age. I think it was 1991. And he's never been found. I was going to say, there's probably a victim who did not live.

Yeah. Don't you imagine? Oh, of course. Multiple victims probably that did not live. Yeah. Well, that case is fucking terrible. I'm not done with it. Oh, no.

I'm so sorry. Okay. Keep going. Great. Let's have more of this shit bag. Did you say more of this comma shit bag? Like calling me shit? Although now I wish I had.

So, Ben, I don't think he's talked to the media since then. And, you know, who can blame him? But Sean has once. Do you know this one, too? Yes. Okay. Well, good Lord. Do you know everything?

No, I don't. There was a lot of stuff I didn't know. You're very well read. I like to keep up on the news. How do you feel about Mountain Dew? Well, we know how you feel about Mountain Dew because you got all excited. Baja Blast Zero. Regular Mountain Dew, not my thing.

You ever painted your mom's house? That sounded like a weird year from this. I'm sorry. Anyway, let's move on. So it was 2017, 10 years after he was rescued and right around the time that the women in Cleveland were rescued. And I really liked the job he did in this interview. He just he said he seemed joyful is not quite the word for it, but very happy for them because he said, you know, it reminds me of when I was rescued. He said that he has had to accept what happened to him and that he's been able to do that thanks to

the strength of his family. And at the end of the interview, he shared advice for other kids who were in the situation he was in, which again, I'm getting goosebumps. And he said, stay strong and don't give up hope. And it just makes me wonder how many people are in that situation more than we could have any idea yeah i bet yeah and that's the story of the missouri miracle oh oh good people will love that that's the sound of a balloon losing its air. You did a very good job with that. That case is terrible. It is terrible.

Yes. And, yeah. There's something to me about the idea that the only reason Sean was rescued is because he aged out. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. Ugh. I just had another dark thought.

What? Well, it's like, what if he had killed him? Well, I think. After years of abuse. Okay, but don't you think that's probably the cycle he had killed him? Well, I think. After years of abuse. But don't you think that's probably the cycle that has happened before? Yes, absolutely. And, but that's honestly not until this very moment has it occurred to me. Yeah.

That that could be happening of like, they take someone's kid, keep them for a couple years. Yeah. Oftentimes not that far from the kids' actual residence. Yeah. Oh, God. Oh, my God. This podcast is terrible. It's terrible.

Turn it off. But listen to my story first. So listen to this whole episode. Oh, my God. I've got to say, as weird as it was, like, I really enjoyed learning about that. I know. And there is, it really is, there's something that's so great about the fact that they're rescued and, you know. But, yeah, it's, it is a, it is terrible.

Okay. Here's another thing I didn't write down or research before this, but I want to say, and maybe I'm totally wrong, but didn't Michelle McNamara, author of I'll Be Gone in the Dark, wasn't she one of the first people to make the possible connection once? Yes, she was, wasn't she? Yes. Yeah, because, I mean, she was just so obsessed with true crime stuff. I mean, she was just so obsessed with true crime stuff. She kind of put it together like, oh, wait, these two young boys. They're very similar. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Oh, no. We're embarrassing. No, we are not. We are very cool and always have been. Okay. Last week nearly did me in. I know. We are very cool and always have been. Okay.

Last week nearly did me in. I know. We were both. We contemplated Thelma and Louise-ing it. Yeah, should we talk about the fact that I suggested we Thelma and Louise-ed after we lost that episode? Yeah. You literally cried. I did.

So I text David and was like, that episode didn't record. I'm going to have to stay and record it again. And then he sent me a picture of my beautiful baby girl London and smiling. And he was like, we've got it. You're good. Do your thing. And so, yeah, I cried. So as you know, this past weekend I got together with Kyla and Jesse, our friend from high school.

And I told them about what had happened and how it just sucked, how you cried. And I didn't realize how it sounded until it kind of came out of my mouth. But I was like, yeah, it was just rough because Brandy had dinner plans with her fiance and the baby. And I was going to go to Ulta. Equally important plans. I was this close to running out of mascara. Okay. I mean, not truly out of mascara,

but out of the kind that I like. That you like. You said you've always got at least three backup mascaras, right? I do. Yeah. I, you know. Yeah, but they're not your favorites and they don't do the volume the way you want them to. I, we know.

We all know. Okay, at what point do you throw the makeup away, though? Right. I was going through my old stuff this week. Yeah. I literally found a tube of lipstick that I bought, oh god 10 years ago throw that away because a youtuber told me to throw yeah throw it away did you throw it away no throw it away okay I will okay so when I was I you know I took a couple days off. Really had to recenter myself. Why?

I mean, all you missed was dinner with your fiance. You didn't have an Ulta appointment. And then I was like, okay, I need to get back to my roots. Do a kidnapping. Yep. And so I legitimately got on my Google machine and looked up 1950s kidnapping. Why 50s? I don't know.

It's what I was in the mood for. All right. It's what I was in the mood for. And this is what the internet delivered me. Okay. So a shout out to an article by Michael Dorman for Newsday. An article for Esquire by Mike... Go for it.

McElarry. Yeah. McElarry? Why are you asking me? Like, I know the man. I don't know the man either. I don't think he's... I think that's...

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I think it's an old article, so... Oh, so who gives a shit he's dead? No, no, I mean, I was about to say there's a possibility he's no longer living. Then I realized I shouldn't say that.

Then I said it anyway. That's why I call him Abraham Lincoln. Because he's dead. Who cares? No, I wasn't saying I don't care how to pronounce his name because he's probably not living. I meant, no, neither one of us would know him because he's probably not living i meant no neither one of us would know him because there's possibly possibly not living anyway jesus christ i'm totally with you brandy if they're dead we can mispronounce

i'm with you all the way and finally an article for article for the New York Daily News by Robert Dominguez. Are you sick of my shit already? I think it makes me sound like a bad person and I don't like it. I think that's why I like to push harder because you're not a bad person. You were caught saying something mildly maybe iffy. And so I just like to really drive it home. Thank you. You'll be cancelled soon. Don't worry.

Thank you for ensuring that happens. And then there will be a terrible rollerblading accident. So I'll be out of work completely. You'll be just destitute. Oh no. Don't put that in the universe. Suck that back in. It was Wednesday, July 4th, 1956.

Final cut. Hairstylist takes a tumble. Sorry. That was pretty good. Yeah, it was pretty good, right? I'm sorry. Start over. It was Wednesday, July 4th, 1956.

Rain earlier in the day had given way to clear skies. And by mid-afternoon, the smell of barbecue grills and the sound of children laughing and playing filled the upscale Long Island suburb of Westbury as families enjoyed the midweek break that the holiday had gifted them. It was just after 3 p.m. when a blood-curdling scream cut through the idyllic middle-class neighborhood. The scream had come from Mrs. Beatrice Weinberger, who lived at 17. Hold up.

Albemarle Road. Albemarle? Albemarle. Oh, my God. What? Do you know that address? No, I just know that word. Okay, when I lived in Elizabeth City, we had the College of the Albemarle.

Oh. And there was an Albemarle. That's really weird because I legitimately saw the address and I was like, Albemarle? I've never seen that word in my life before. When I moved there, one of the first questions was, how the hell do you pronounce it? Yes. I didn't even attempt it for weeks. Okay, 17 Albemarle.

Road, Westbury, New York. There's no good pictures. There's a street view and you can see the house. Well, yeah, I see the house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cute little ranchy ranch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this was like a new house at the time.

I think it was built like in 1954 or something like that. I'll tell you when it was built. 1952. Okay, I was close. I was close. Oh my god. I tell you what, the house price is in New York.

Oh yeah, this thing's like $600,000 now. The estimated value is $682,000. Did you get stuck? I got stuck because my Missouri brain is like, that's a ranch. How could that house be $682,000? Yeah, it's like a three-bed, two-bath ranch. It sure is.

Yes. Sure is. Okay. So it's 4th of July, 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Mrs. Beatrice Weinberger lets out a scream that cuts through the neighborhood. Betty, as she was known by everyone, had been sitting outside while her newborn baby, 33-day-old Peter Weinberger, slept in his carriage on their patio. Weinberger slept in his carriage on their patio. Betty had closed the mosquito netting around baby Peter's carriage and then gone inside for a couple of minutes while he slept. She was just, I don't know, doing stuff in the kitchen or putting stuff away throughout the house and she glanced outside

every couple of minutes. One time when she glanced out, she noticed that the netting had come open. And so she went over to adjust it again. And when she went out to the carriage, it was empty. Baby Peter was nowhere to be found. Betty was in hysterics, still processing what was going on. Where was Peter? What had happened? When her husband, Morris, arrived home with their other son, two-year-old Lewis.

Betty told her husband exactly what she'd done. She'd gone inside for a couple of minutes, and when she came out, the carriage was empty. And that's when Morris saw it. A scrap of paper laying on their flagstone patio beneath the carriage. It was a ransom note. Peter Weinberger had been kidnapped. In a middle class neighborhood? Yeah.

Yeah. Like, that's the crazy thing about this case. Yeah, is that they're not, like, super rich. They're not. They're not. Yeah. Wow, that's weird. Okay. The note was written in green ink on a sheet of paper that appeared like it had been ripped out of a children's school book. And it read, attention. I'm sorry this had to happen, but I am in bad

need of money and couldn't get it any other way. Don't tell anyone or go to the police about this because I am watching you closely. I am scared stiff and will kill the baby at your first wrong move. Oh, my God. Just put $2,000, which adjusted for inflation, approximately $19,400. Okay. In small bills in a brown envelope and place it next to the signpost at the corner of Albemarle and Park Avenue at exactly 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. If everything goes smooth, I will bring the baby back and leave him on the same corner, safe and happy, in quotes.

Ew, why in quotes? I don't know. At exactly 12 noon. No excuses. I can't wait. Signed, your babysitter. Oh my God, that is so fucked up. Yeah.

What would you do? I would call the police immediately. I think I would be tempted to just. Just try and put the money together. But here's the thing. Like $20,000 essentially is what he's asking for. And this is not a wealthy family. Yeah.

And they don't just have the money. They don't just have $2,000. And so, despite the warning and the note, they called the police. They contacted the Nassau County Police Department. And Detective Frank Abramowitz was sent out to investigate, basically see if this was legitimate, see what was going on here. And so he came out and everything looked legit to him. Like this looked like a real ransom note. The family seemed to be reacting exactly how he thought they would be in this situation. And so he called his

boss, Sergeant Edward Curran, C-U-R-R-A-N. Curran. Curran, could be, yeah. And he said, I think we have a kidnapping. And his boss was like, what do you mean a kidnapping? This is suburbia. We don't have kidnappings in Nassau County. And Frank Abramowitz said, it's a baby. So this Edward Curran guy was like, supposed to be on vacation, like starting this next week, but he'd come into the office that day,

just like finish up some paperwork that he had on his desk. Oh, shit. And so now he's like, well, fuck, I'm in this case. Well, yeah, absolutely. And so he headed on out to Westbury to get, you know. The Lake of the Ozarks will be there when you're done. That's exactly right.

And so he went out to talk to the Weinbergers. And they were immediately like, let's just pay the ransom. Let's do it. Let's set up the drop. We'll do exactly what he said. And like the police had been cautious coming to the house. I think they'd come like, you know. Sirens off.

Exactly. Real subtle. Yeah. And so they were like, let's just pay the ransom except can you guys like help us out? We don't like have the ransom. And they're like, okay, do you have any family members you can ask? And so they did. They had some wealthy family members

like in the Gold Coast area of Long Island, which is like where the Great Gatsby lived, if you remember that. Everyone, I need to let you know. The look on Brandy's face. It's like a really nice place.

I mean, I would go there if someone invited me. It's just that no one's invited me yet. I'm never invited there. And so they do. They call some family members and they're able to get enough family members who are willing to send them money for it. Only it's a holiday. There's no banks open or anything. Wait, so the police are involved and they don't pony up the cash?

No. They do not offer to pony up the cash. Well, see, that's why I don't know that I would even get them involved. It's like I can call my rich relatives by myself. What they do do is they... What they are able to do, because we are obviously not adults who can blow past a doo-doo without laughing. They arrange for a bank to open and for family members to be able to wire money there. And they put the money together.

The police record the serial numbers on everything. And they put the money in the brown envelope. And they prepare the next morning to go and put it at the spot where the ransom note had said only there was a problem with the kidnapper's instructions. There was no Park and Albemarle? There was, except Albemarle made a big semicircle, and so there were two intersections of Albemarle made a big semi-circle and so there were two intersections of Albemarle and Park

and they didn't know which one to do it at oh my god and so the detectives were like okay this is what we're going to do we're going to get another $2,000 we're just going to prepare two envelopes and we'll put them at both intersections well what are you guys pitching in

I think they did at this point. I think they ponied up the extra $2,000. Lord. And so at 10 o'clock the next morning, they had the ransom packages and their brown envelopes set beside the signposts at both intersections. And then detectives, like, hid in the bushes and kept a lookout. But no kidnapper appeared.

And somehow news reporters had gotten word that this was happening. And so press started showing up in the neighborhood. And so it just became a very chaotic scene. There were people swarming everywhere. And finally, the police were like, OK, obviously, this is not going to work. And the kidnapper never showed. And so all they could do, all the Weinbergers could do was just like sit and wait for further instruction.

They had no way to contact the kidnapper. And so they're sitting there. Okay, but you know what? This kidnapper's a fucking dumbass because this is why you don't kidnap a middle class person's son. Yeah, exactly. Right? Yeah. Because they had to go talk to all their relatives.

The relatives had to talk to other people. Exactly. So of course it's going to get out. Yeah, they're like, oh, lovey, we just got a call. Seems like there's problems in the suburbs. There's been a kidnapping. Oh, my stuff. And, yeah, word spreads.

And that's what happened. That's exactly how it went down. And that's how rich we both are. When you get that rich, does your voice change gradually? Or is it like. I bet it's just like a sudden thing. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. voice change gradually or is it like i bet it's just like a sudden thing uh-huh yeah yeah okay yeah so morris and betty are besides them besides themselves fuck they're beside themselves i think everything should be plural they're like what do we do now and so the investigators are kind of like coming up with they're like brainstorming some ideas oh my god and so they came up with the idea of holding a news conference on this news conference they would appeal to the kidnapper that baby peter needed special formula and this was completely made up right he didn't need special formula. And they, in fact, invented a formula that would – they, like, made up this whole thing that would need to be filled by a pharmacist. And that – on the hopes that the – this is so far-fetched.

This could really backfire. It is a mess. Okay. That the this is this is so far really backfire is a mess. OK, so they plan to call this press conference and say, make this appeal that baby Peter needs this special formula that could only be put together by a pharmacist. He has to put these specific things together and they list out the things and the hopes that the kidnapper would go to the pharmacy and ask for this to be filled. And the pharmacist would like oh well this doesn't exist and would call the police oh and let them know weird i agree see what i was thinking uh-huh was like what if the kidnapper hears all this like oh this kid needs this certain things to survive that's more trouble than it's worth. I'm going to kill the kid. Yeah. Yes.

I think that's a valid concern. Oh, my God. Yeah. It doesn't seem that they considered that at all. They just were like, oh, yeah, you need to go to a pharmacist. And they hoped that the kidnapper would go to this pharmacist, any pharmacist, and the pharmacist would be like, yeah, that's not a thing that exists, and would then know to call the police.

Do you think they had called up a bunch of local pharmacies and been like, hey, just heads up? I sure hope so. Or that this had made such news by that point that they were like, every pharmacist is going to have seen this news story as well. This is wild. It is wild. Okay. So Betty goes on the news that night. She's got, you know, floodlights all over the place. Dozens of reporters are there. She's right out front of the

Nassau police headquarters. And she goes on the news and she says, I am the mother of Peter Weinberger who was taken from me yesterday. Whoever you are, I now plead for the return of my baby, who needs the care of his mother. And then she broke down and she wasn't able to continue. And so she handed the paper that she was supposed to read the instructions off of to the lead investigator, Edward Curran. And I'm going to pronounce his name differently every time that I see it. And that's what I'm doing. That's the spice of this podcast. That's exactly

right. And she said, you read it. I can't. And so he took over and he said that the baby was in need of a special formula for feeding. And then he read off the ingredients in the fake formula that they'd made up and then they waited and hoped that they would get calls from pharmacists only that never happened yeah no one ever called them and there was no sign of peterberger anywhere. Were the FBI involved? I mean, surely. I mean, this is after Lindbergh. So this... Seven days. What?

By law, the FBI was not allowed to join the case for seven days. What? That is so ridiculous. It is ridiculous. Why? Yeah. That was the law. Yeah.

But why? Because it's the law, Kristen! the law. Yeah. But why? Because it's the law, Kristen! Oh my God. That's ridiculous. Yes, as a result of this case, that law was changed. And the FBI can now join the case after 24 hours. Yeah, yeah. So the FBI is just like watching they're watching them screw up watching the time go by

looking to join the case the minute they can days go by finally at 10 45 a.m. on July 10th, the phone rang at the Weinberger home and Morris answered it. And on the line was a man with a husky voice and he had new instructions for them. He said to leave the ransom at the exit, like exit 26 off the Northern State Parkway. And so he did it. They went, they took the ransom to exit 26. And again, no one showed up for it. What the hell? And they're like, oh my gosh, like by this point, it's like six days have gone by. Yeah. But no one showed up for the ransom later that day betty's at home and she receives a second call from the kidnapper oh my god and he says hello mrs weinberger and she said yes and the man said listen do you want to see your kid or don't you and bet Betty said, who is this? And the man on the line said, well, it's the party you

would be interested in. I called up earlier and I don't know who answered, but I made an appointment and no one showed up. And Betty said, you made an appointment with my husband and what did you ask him to do? And the man says, go to exit 26. And Betty cut him off. She said, yes, we kept the appointment. My husband went. And the man on the line said, nobody was there. I was there for over an hour. And then there's like a pause and he goes, And he goes, well, now I'm at exit 28. So it's like the kidnapper went to the wrong exit. Oh, my God.

And so he's like, okay, fine. Now I'm at exit 28. If you want your baby, you bring the ransom to exit 28. You'll find a blue bag there. And so Betty's like flustered now. And she's like, hold on just a minute. Let me get this straight. I'm sorry.

I'm nervous. I need to get this straight. What do you want me to do? And the man on the line says, put the money in the blue bag. Take the note. And I'll tell you. It will tell you where to find your baby in an hour's time. And Betty's like about to get off the phone. And she's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Where at exit 28? Going which direction? Which side? Yes, yes. Yes. And he says, exit 28 as you're going towards New York. You'll find a blue bag right by the sign. Not at the exit.

At the sign that says exit 28. So thank God Betty's like trying to get all the information at this point. Because this kidnapper is an idiot and just assumes that everyone's going to understand exactly what he means. Yes. And he's like, be there in 30 minutes. And she's like, that's all? That's all? You're only giving me half an hour?

And he's like, that's all you need. You can You're only giving me half an hour? And he's like, that's all you need. You can make it in 15. I know. I've already done it. So is he a neighbor? I don't know. Well, yeah, you do know. Oh, no, do you not?

Oh, okay. Okay, all right. Okay, you know what? This is killing me. I'm so sorry. I need to fill up my water. I'm loving this. Okay, go ahead. Loving is killing me. I'm so sorry. I need to fill up my water. I'm loving this. Okay, go ahead.

Loving it. Oh, my God. Okay, so Betty's like, okay, the blue bag, it's going to be right by the sign that says exit 28. And I need to have the ransom there within 30 minutes. Yeah. And the kidnapper on the line says, that's right. And so she gets off the phone and she goes to the detectives and they're like, okay, okay, okay. We're going to put this all together.

They put several detectives like in street clothes and plant them on the side of the highway. Like they're a litter crew. And then they go out to exit 28 and they find the blue bag and they put the money in it. That doesn't sound super subtle. I mean, if you're the kid. I agree. And all of a sudden a litter crew shows up. Yeah. Yeah.

I think this is a mistake and probably a mistake that the FBI would have been like, oh, that's not why we're going to handle it. Yeah, it's not amateur. It's only been six days. The FBI can't join. OK. And wouldn't you know it? we're going to handle it. Yeah, it's not amateur. Because it's only been six days. The FBI can't join. Okay. And wouldn't you know it? Nobody fucking showed again for the ransom.

Oh, my God. Inside the blue bag, there was another note in it. The handwriting matched the first one and it repeated the demand for the $2,000. And again, seemed kind of apologetic. Like, I'm sorry to have to do this to do this and you know it's not that much money i'm asking for

but give it to me now all i did was take your child right so now they're exactly where they started from they still have no further instructions no one's showing up for the for the ransom they don't know what to do finally a week has passed and the FBI is like, move over. We're taking over this investigation. Not a minute too soon, I say. Right. And so they put like 55 agents on the case, which prior to this, there were only eight working on it. Seems a little overkill-y.

I was going to say, are they trying to make up for lost time by just putting everyone on the case? So what they did is they put 55 agents on the case and then they want to match those up with like 55 state police guys so that everybody's working in pairs of two and they can all have different tasks that they're working on. And there's a reason for that because they have very few clues in the case. They have the phone calls because they were able to record them and they have the ransom notes. And that's really it. And so they want half of the people looking at handwriting samples and trying to match it up, and other people listening to voice recordings and trying to find a connection.

And so this is what they do for the next few weeks. Oh, no. They analyze thousands upon thousands of handwriting samples. And they put together from this ransom note 16 letters of the alphabet that had distinguishing, unusual characteristics to them that were different than how people typically write their letters. And so they put together what they called the happy birthday letter, a letter with just some kind of phrase on it that contained all 16 of those letters. And anybody that they had considered a possible suspect in any way was brought in and made to copy that phrase from that happy birthday letter so they could analyze their handwriting.

Boy. I mean, it didn't go anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and wouldn't you, I mean, I hate to state the obvious, but wouldn't you be disguising your handwriting? Well, and that's what I wondered. And I thought, I had that same thought.

So I don't know if they like, like they read the letter aloud to them and told them to write it down or if they had it typed up and they were asked to write it. I don't know. I know. You would think that if you knew that you were being considered for writing a ransom letter, wouldn't you write your – Well, and also if you were writing a ransom letter, wouldn't that not be your actual handwriting? That would be what a smart kidnapper would do. Thanks. I've been looking about getting into it, you know?

A lot of my friends are married now. Sorry, that was a gross joke. Oh, no. Don't worry. Don't worry. It's not happening. So, yeah, this is going nowhere. They then start combing through public records, files from different courts throughout the Long Island jurisdiction, looking at any papers that any offenders have ever written on ever before to find this distinct handwriting.

But this was taking forever. Yeah. And there were no signs of Peter Weinberger at all. What there was no shortage of were people claiming to know where Peter was or playing pranks on the Weinbergers. Oh, that's hilarious. Playing pranks on the Weinbergers or. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. Or trying to extort ransom money from them. Oh.

Yeah. Five people were arrested after making like phony calls to the Weinbergers about, oh, we know where Peter is. Just give us this money and we'll tell you. There was another one. I hope they went to prison for a long, long time. Same. There was another instance where Betty got a call and was told to take the ransom money

to this movie theater in Queens. And she was supposed to take a seat in the next to last row. And then she was supposed to put the ransom money like in the seat next to her. And so she did. She went and she sat exactly where she was supposed to put the ransom money like in the seat next to her. And so she did. She went and she sat exactly where she was supposed to in the theater.

But 30 FBI agents had also taken seats in the theater. Like, you know, they'd gone, you know, not all together, different times. They looked like they were just buying tickets. And they're all white dudes in suits who probably have the same haircut and they're all there alone.

They don't have dates or anything. Yeah. So Betty goes in. She takes her seat. And within minutes, someone comes in and snatches her purse

and then goes to run off. Well, there's 30 FBI agents there. They all fucking tackle this guy. And it turns out he was just a purse snatcher. He had no idea who Betty was. He had no idea that there was this ransom arrangement supposedly going

on there. I bet that dude shat his trousers. I'm sure that he did. Can you fucking imagine? I bet he never snatched another purse. I bet he didn't. Can you imagine? You take somebody's version 32 and stack them. That's great.

Yeah. Six weeks passed. And still no sign of baby Peter. The kidnapper had had the baby longer than they had, right? Yeah. It was only 30 days. Yeah. I mean, assuming the baby's still alive.

Yeah. Probably not. Yeah. Yeah. Finally, this probation officer in Brooklyn had like, was going through his personal files.

This is something they'd kind of outsourced to like different people. And they're like, hey, look at your files. See if something they'd kind of outsourced to different people. They're like, hey, look at your files. See if you've got anything that matches his handwriting. And he put together a stack of files that he saw this handwriting. There was specifically the way the kidnapper wrote his cursive M's looked like a sideways Z, apparently. And so this probation officer

looked through. He saw someone that looked like he wrote his M's that same way and he was like, hey just going to give this to you guys. I don't know if this is a match but this looks similar to me. And he gave them the file of Angelo LaMarca.

He had been arrested for making an illegal still, which is like moonshine. Yeah. Yeah. And he had served like two years of probation for it. And they look at it and they're like, yeah, this is a perfect match to the handwriting. He went from making a still to kidnapping a kid? What they had for his paperwork was

his confession about how he made the still and all this. And so they had a pretty good sampling of his handwriting and it matched the ransom note perfectly. And so they went and tracked him down and they were like, they put him under surveillance at first and then they decided it was him.

And so Angelo Lamarco was just like this guy who worked as a taxi dispatcher. And then he may, according to a couple of articles. What's a taxi? Shut up. Is that like Uber? But earlier? I don't understand. Not like Uber, but earlier?

I don't understand. He also may have worked as a mechanic for North American van lines, which I can only assume is some kind of Uber-like transportation service. I don't know. I don't know. I've never been on public transportation, but I've got a lot of opinions about how it should be run. Anyway. You look so pissed. Angelo and his wife Donna and their two young children lived in Plainview, New York, which was a less nice suburb of Long Island.

It was about 15 minutes east of Westbury. For comparison, the home Angelo and his family lived in had cost $14,700, which adjusted for inflation is about $143,000. And the Weinberger's home had cost $50,000, which adjusted for inflation was about $486,000. Okay. So, you know what, that does make more sense. Yeah. Like to him, this was the rich neighborhood. Exactly. So, yeah, they're going to have two grand. Yeah. Okay.

So after comparing his samples and taking him under surveillance for a while, they decided this was the guy and they needed to bring him in, but they wanted to be careful because they didn't want to put baby Peter in danger if he were still in LaMarca's care, if he was still alive by any chance at this point. And so like one day they show up to his house. They watched him take his two children to their grandparents' house. And then when he returned to his house with his wife, they took that opportunity to take him into custody. And the like eight people surrounded him and it wasn't, it wasn't any big thing. He cooperated and they took him into custody. And his wife was like, what is going on? I don't understand what's going on.

And they brought her in as well. But this is where things kind of broke down between the FBI and the local police. Oh, shit. So the FBI were like, this is our case. And the police were like, you have no jurisdiction here. So this Edward Curran was like, this is my case. You don't have any right to interrogate him. He's my criminal.

Really? Yeah. And so they were like fighting it out while this guy's sitting in an interrogation room. What the fuck? So they're having a dick measuring contest? Yes. When there's possibly a baby on the line? Yes.

And I'm sorry, but doesn't FBI win in that argument? Or shouldn't the FBI win? What's the mayor say? I don't know. I don't know what the mayor said, but finally they get down to it and the FBI backs off and lets Edward have the interview. Yeah, I mean, at a certain point it's like, all right, we should get to the bottom of this. Yeah. So, yeah, he told like the head of the FBI,

this Edward Curon guy, told the FBI, he's like, you know you have no jurisdiction here. There's no indication that he ever crossed state lines. It looks like he traveled 15 minutes. This is my case.

You have to let me have the interview. You have to let me do the interrogation. And he was like, you're right. Okay. Yeah. And so he goes in and he sits down with Angelo LaMarca and he's like, listen, I am your only friend right now. I live on the same street as your parents. live on the same street as your parents. I come from where you come from. Help me help you. Okay. You know what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's very different than how the FBI would have gone in there. Yeah. Yeah. This next sentence pains me to say so much, but this is a direct quote from the New York Daily News article.

But LaMarca proved to be a tough nut. It took more than 24 hours under the lights before he finally cracked. Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. You know, one might say that he was like a walnut in a real dry heat. I read that. I was like, are you fucking kidding me?

He was like a nut. Oh, that is beautiful because I know how angry I get when I'm watching a show and the cops are like, so we made entry into the home. And I'm like, no, because, you know, you have to admit it. This is what they said. OK. Wow. So for like 24 hours, Angela Lamarca is like, I don't know anything about the kidnapping. So truly 24 hours. 24 hours. So he reallyca's like, I don't know anything about the kidnapping. So truly 24 hours?

24 hours. So he really was a tough nut to crack. He was. He was a tough nut to crack. Maybe they should have got one of those nut crackers. Maybe. Yeah. He wasn't like a cashew in the rain, I'll tell you that.

He was not. He was not. So finally this Edward Curran guy is like, I know what'll do it. And he brings Angelo's wife, Donna, into the interrogation room. Gonna shame you. And she goes, Angelo, did you kidnap this child? Think of the baby's mother. If you did this and I was the mother, I'd want to know where he is.

And Angelo's pissed. He has a physical reaction to his wife being in there. He yells to get her out of there. And then as soon as she's gone, he confesses. He writes a 12-page confession and signs every one of them with his weird little handwriting thing that matched the ransom note. around on the 4th of July and he had seen Betty pushing Peter in his carriage and then watched her settle in on the patio in the backyard and had seen an opportunity. He was in debt to the tune of about $1,800, some of it from buying a refrigerator, some of it from putting storm windows on the house. And then like $400 of it was to a loan shark who was threatening to hurt his family.

And he couldn't afford the like $126 mortgage payment that was coming up. And so he just saw an opportunity to make a quick buck is what he said. Kidnappings are never quick bucks. No. And believe me, I've tried. Stop it. And right after he had taken Peter, he panicked. He didn't know what to do with the baby. And so he just laid him down

in a bed of honeysuckles on the side of the highway and had left him there. What? Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. So on August 24th, a bunch of police officers and federal agents went out and searched that area where he told them he'd left him. And there they found the remains of Peter Weinberger. He had died almost immediately after he was taken because Angelo LaMarca had laid him face down in the hunk of suckles and he'd suffocated to death. Oh, my God. Angelo LaMarca was indicted on charges of kidnapping and first degree murder. And in a kind of a weird move,

the Nassau District Attorney Frank Gulotta decided to prosecute the case himself. Obviously, this was a huge case. He was probably up for reelection, if I'm guessing. I was going to say, probably for the same reason that that guy wanted to interrogate him himself. It's like, this is a big deal and I want to be part of a big deal. Yes. In Long Island, this was seen as like the trial of the century. Sure. And finally, the trial began in November of 1956. Oh. I'm sorry. Yeah.

This really says a lot about this guy as a parent. Oh, absolutely. That he's got two kids. Yeah. But he takes a baby and he doesn't know what to do with it. Completely panicked, had no idea what to do. So he just left it on the side of the highway. Honestly, what I thought you were going to say is he left it on the side of the highway and they never found the remains. And obviously someone took the baby and raised it

or something. So it's interesting that you say that because initially when he first confessed to this and said that's what he'd done they couldn't find the remains and so that's what betty said betty was like i know my baby's still alive someone found him someone has him and so then they took angelo out there and he was able to take them directly where he left him and there his remains were. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's horrifying. Oh, my God.

What a terrible, terrible human. Yeah. Yeah. At his trial, Angelo LaMarca used an insanity defense. They put a psychiatrist on the stand who had said that he was driven to commit this kidnapping because of the mounting debts and pressure from his wife. Oh, the wife's fault. Okay. She needed storm windows.

Sorry. What ahmm. Okay. She needed storm windows. Sorry. What a bitch. Yeah. I hate it when women convince their husbands to kidnap kids. That's right. To pay for the storm windows. Storm windows. Damn it.

The psychiatrist, Dr. Thomas Cusack, testified that Angela LaMarca had a, quote, diseased mind. In their closing argument, the prosecution, which was urging the jury to both convict Angela LaMarca on all charges and then send him to the electric chair, said, this man has passed the sentence on himself. Literally and actually, with the life of that little child in the palm of his hand, he determined his own fate when he said to himself, shall that baby live or shall that baby die? His hands closed and he chose death. When that baby's life expired, Angelo LaMarca's life expired too. That's a pretty good closing argument. That's pretty powerful. It really is. The jury was all male and was made up of 10 fathers and two grandfathers. And they found him guilty on both charges and sentenced him to death. Both Angelo LaMarca's mother and wife fainted when they heard that he was sentenced to death. You think so?

According to the article, that's what happened. Sounds like bullshit. It probably is. You know, you read some of these old-timey articles, and all the women are fainting all the time. Yes, they're constantly fainting. It's like, how have I not fainted 12 times this week, you know? Angelo LaMarca appealed his sentence, and that stretched out for almost two years. But finally, all of his appeals were exhausted

and on august 7th 1958 he was put to death in the electric chair at sing sing prison his final meal was fried chicken french fries, ice cream, and coffee. Yeah. Not what I would pick. It's the coffee that throws me. Yeah. I'll be honest. Yeah. As they were put, like, strapping him into the electric chair, there was a priest there who was giving him his last rites and stuff.

And they, you know, they put the leather mask on him. And then they put a strap across that. And as they were putting the strap across him, like, I guess across his neck, he said, what are you trying to do? Choke me? What? And those were his last words. Was that a joke? I have no idea.

I have no idea. I have no idea. If it's a joke, it's not that bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. There are obviously the death of Peter Weinberger is horribly tragic there. Yeah. Silver lining is that this case changed the law that the FBI doesn't have to wait seven days. That wouldn't have changed the outcome. I was going to say, but ironically, it wouldn't have made a difference.

It wouldn't have made a difference in this case. You're absolutely right. But it probably would have saved the parents a lot of heartache because it sounds like they were really running around dealing with a bunch of bullshit and yeah yeah maybe that could have been cut down on in a bit of a weird twist angelo lamarca's son vincent was nine when he kidnapped peter wein. He was 11 when his father was executed. He saw his father in prison a couple of times. It was never. He wasn't told his last visit was his last visit.

So he never really felt he got to say goodbye to his father. Yeah. The family was kind of adopted by the local police force. They kind of watched over them in the wake of this. And in response to that, Vincent grew up to become a police sergeant in the Long Island Police Department. Wow. Yeah. He served 20 years there before retiring and moving to Florida. 20 years there before retiring and moving to Florida. Oh, my God.

During his time there, he worked closely with the men who had caught and prosecuted his father. But he said a lot of them didn't know who his father was or what he had done. And those who did never held it against him. Wow. Wow. And another odd twist. In 1990, Vincent's son, Joey, who he was estranged from, stabbed a drug dealer to death in Long Island while son joey was dealing with addiction and stuff at that time but it later came out that joey had been obsessed with his grandfather's story and that he believed murder was in his genes oh his way of rebelling against his dad was to be like his grandpa. Wow, that's weird. Yeah. Vincent LaMarca's position on this was, this is a direct quote, the only murder dumber than my father's is my son's. Vincent LaMarca's life story is actually the inspiration behind a 2002 Robert De Niro movie called City by the Sea.

I've never I had never heard of it. It stars Robert De Niro. Yeah. Stop it. James Franco. Eliza Dushku. I've never seen it. I had never heard of it.

She's Missy from Bring It On. Oh, OK. This school has no gymnastics team. This is a last resort. Oh, okay. This school has no gymnastics team. This is a last resort. Oh, yeah. I didn't know her last name was Douche Canoe. Douche Canoe! And that's

the story of an old-timey kidnapping. That was amazing. Right? Oh my gosh, that was so sad. Yeah. This episode's really sad. This episode's a bummer. It is a huge bummer. It was very interesting, though.

I never heard that one. I'm going to have to go watch this movie now. So I read an article, an interview with Vincent LaMarca, and he said he saw the movie. He ended up walking out of it because it was too difficult to watch. But he said they did take some creative liberties with it, and he understands why they have to do that. But it's fairly accurate accurate yeah yeah yeah yeah his son did an interview where he said it's in our name it's in our name that murders in our genes la marca means the mark we have the mark of murderers. Okay, shut up.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting how they went different ways there. Like one of them, like Vincent

was not going to be like his father. He was going to be on the other side of the law and be a policeman and be an upstanding citizen. And that was his way to rebel against his father and what his father

had done. And then yeah. His son became obsessed with his grandfather's story and believed that murder was in his jeans. Was he wearing jeans when he said that?

I'd like to think so. Oh, wow. That was very well told. Thank you. Man, those were some good cases. I mean, I know it was a bummer, but those were good cases. Very interesting cases, yes. You know what I think we ought to do now?

Should we take some questions from the Discord? We should. Let me wet my whistle. I feel like I just talked for 40 minutes straight. GFuel. Hashtag not an ad. Okay. Do you think they'll send me some free G Fuel if I keep mentioning it on the podcast?

Hey, listeners, can you reach out to G Fuel and tell them that I'm constantly talking about their product on the podcast and maybe they can give us some free stuff? Oh, yeah. Don't sign up for our Patreon. Go hound the people at G Fuel. Also, they only do that after you've signed up for our Patreon. Also, leave us a five-star rating and review. We don't ask much. Just all those things.

Can you just constantly be working for us? Oh, too soon. Too soon. Courtjester Jorge says, are you sure you're recording? Oh, oh my gosh. We have both, I've noticed this, we've both looked over at the computer that monitors our recording situation quite a few times. Usually that's my job to be super paranoid. But you stepped in.

You really helped out. Oh, Kirsten wants to know, Brandy, what is your biggest pet peeve on hairstylist social media? I have so many things that irritate me that I'm just ignoring hairstylist TikToks now. Do you have one? Yeah, I have all kinds of them. Oh, tell us everything. I don't know. Tell us everything.

I think it's kind of catty. If it's catty, we'll cut it. But I think we like catty. Where to begin? I had no idea this question would, like, start you off down a long road. No, I think that a lot of hairstylists' social media gives people false expectations about what they can expect out of their hair experience and achievable results in one session. I don't think they're as transparent as they need to be. Lots of times when you see a before and an after, there are multiple sessions that have happened between there.

Okay. So you're talking about like dramatic hair color changes and people come in with like super dark hair and then they want like silver. Yes. And while we're on it, silver. Get the fuck out of here. I don't even want to talk to you. Really? Yeah.

Because it's not sustainable. It's a ton of upkeep. You have to get your hair toned like every 10 days with silver hair, which is very expensive. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Fair enough.

So it's a trend I am not here for because I think that's a ridiculous expectation. Nobody wants to have their hair done every 10 days. Anything else? Anything else you want to get off your chest? That's all I'd like to talk about right now. What I will say on the other side of that, what I do really like is I think that because that trend has happened where you see these huge transformations without knowing exactly what happened in between and how expensive it was. On the other side of that, there are hairstylists

now who are out there and being like, this took six sessions and the total cost was $1,400. So I do love that. Yes. And I think that's important for people to know like for them to be transparent about that. Alright, alright. Nancy Carlson wants to know, if I go to Shoney's, what should I get? The salad bar. That's my recommendation.

Also, well, I haven't been to Shoney's in many years. I haven't had the pleasure. But it used to also come with a soup bar. So, sounds amazing. How was your soup with lunch, Kristen? Shut up. You know I didn't like my soup today.

I was appalled. Okay, Kristen, we went to lunch. Kristen ordered her kale salad, which is delicious. Which just looks like leaves they picked up out in the backyard it's delicious um and then so she ordered it and then she just said can i also just get a cup of soup with that and the waitress was like absolutely no problem they have one okay no so i didn't know that and so like after she left i was just in my head i'm just like did she just order mystery soup how does she know what they're gonna bring her like what just any soup is fine and so i was just in my head. I'm just like, did she just order mystery soup? How does she know what they're going to bring her? Like what? Just any soup is fine. And so it was just like going in my head.

And so finally I had to be like, Kristen, I'm very concerned about how you ordered. What soup are they bringing you? And you're like, oh, they only have one soup on the menu. It's just this tomato basil thing. And I was like, oh, OK, that's fine. And then they brought you warm ketchup. It was bad. It was not.

It was not a good soup. We love the restaurant we went to. Yeah, it was great. And you've had the soup there before. Yeah. It was just an off day for the soup, I think. Somebody fudged up today. Ooh.

Anna wants to know, Brandy, have you considered having a black wedding dress? I have. Of course I have considered having a black wedding dress. I just don't know if that's what I want. There's actually a dress that I have my eye on. But I have to try it on my person and see if it if it works in my mind. I look amazing. Can you tell us anything about it? It is. Yeah, it's ivory. Mm hmm. And it's very simple. Mm hmm.

But it's got sleeves and it's off the shoulder, which I think very much, very much my style. Mm hmm. So it's very simple. Mm hmm. If that dress that I have

in my mind doesn't look on my body how it does in my mind, which is a very real possibility. Then, yeah, I think a black dress could definitely work its way in there. Oh, I'm interested to know this for you because I know for me.

Fierce Mama Llama wants to know, is there a method to the madness of picking what cases you cover every week? Do you guys have a spreadsheet of cases that you want to cover and go through it? Or do you just randomly pick cases of what speaks to you? Yeah, it's very random for me. I have a spreadsheet. Oh, it's so organized. Oh, my. I'm very choosy.

No, it's whatever strikes me. Same. It's like, what am I in the mood to research this week? And sometimes I will read several articles on like three or four cases and be like, nope, that's not it that's not what i want to talk about this week yeah yeah because you like you i don't know it seems weird to say but you have to like like the case you're covering and be interested in the case you're covering yeah and you have to find um sources that go in depth enough yep um also sometimes you want to make sure they don't go too in depth because you don't have all day long.

Yeah, absolutely. We have about half a day, though. That's pretty much. That's a lot. Ooh. This is a would you rather from Tay. Okay. Would you rather be put in a maximum security federal prison with the hardest of the hardened criminals for one year?

Oh, God. Or be put in a relatively relaxed prison where Wall Street types are held for 10 years. Oh, shit. Fuck. Okay, well, if I'm in, like, the max, am I just in a jail cell by myself? Like, is it so maxi-maxed out? I'm sorry, I'm thinking maxi pads. Yeah. That like, I'm not really in any danger. Well, that's just how that's how I'm thinking about it, too. If it's maximum security, even if I'm in general population, if it's to the point that I

am like in danger, they're going to put me in ad seg. So I'm going one year. Ad seg? Yeah. in ad seg. So I'm going one year. Ad seg? Yeah. Administrative segregation. It's for your own protection. Yeah, but why would you get that?

If I'm in danger, if I'm at risk, they'll put you in segregation for your own protection. But it's not, hey, do you feel like maybe you're at risk? No, that's what I'm saying. If it gets to the point

that I'm really at risk of getting hurt, then they would do that. Well, you've got a lot of faith in the system. Well, no, I would have I would have had to have been attacked or something at that point for that to happen. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying.

Like, yeah, like something will have like legitimately will have had to happen. And if you're at the maxiest of the max, I mean, don't you think those folks are pretty good at killing people? Well, yes, I do. Like if they've attempted, they've probably succeeded, right? Yes. And so then they're like, gosh, too bad. If only we could have put her in Ad Seg or whatever.

I would do the exact same thing. Yeah, I think that's why. I'm giving you a hard time. I would do the exact same thing. Okay, I want to know the answer to this. AJ Beers says, I'm in my car waiting for my daughter to be done at the dentist. They bring the kids out to us. I was falling asleep when my phone vibrated with this Discord notification.

Where's the weirdest slash most embarrassing place you've ever fallen asleep? Hmm. I don't know that it's that weird, but it was embarrassing to me. I used to get my lashes done. I used to get lash extensions. And every time I would get them done, I would fall asleep. Because you're just laying on a table getting it done. But I would wake myself up because I would start snoring.

Oh, no. I'm sure the lady didn't care. She didn't care at all. No. And I would always wake myself up and be like, oh, my gosh, I'm sure the lady didn't care. She didn't care at all. No. And I would always like wake myself up and be like, oh, my gosh, I'm sorry. I totally fell asleep. She's like, everyone falls asleep. But I would be embarrassed because I was snoring.

And I don't really snore. Like in my bed, I don't really snore. Where's yours? Do you have one? No, I'm so jealous of these people who just can fall asleep anywhere. I can barely fall asleep in my own bed. That's true. Yeah, I'm not a great sleeper, so maybe that's, yeah, part of it.

Sorry, I got all hot. Now I'm all hot because you're stripping down. Take out the sweatshirt. Skeezy Skunch says, thoughts on Fred Durstst new look does fred durst have a new look he looks like a dad like an old dad okay i'm so excited what do you remember the days of him in his white tank top and his red backwards hat with his big old shorts. Yes. Now this is what he looks like.

That is wild. Yeah. He's out there in a raincoat. I know. I mean, it's funny. You look at his face. His face is the same. His face is the same.

Yeah. It's just, boy, he really wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, boy, he really wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Here's a comparison picture of him with the backwards hat on. And woo. Excuse me for a moment.

Oh, my God. Brandy freaking loved. I mean, that is your type right there. That's 100% my type. Look at him. Yep. Okay. Look at this fucking picture of him right here.

Yep. I was looking at that exact picture. I was like, that's Brandy. That's got Brandy's name written all over it. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm about to pee myself. We're going to have to do Supreme Court inductions. Okay, sounds good.

All right, we are continuing to do your names and your favorite cookies. Jessica Kostek. Sugar cookie with M&M's on top. On top? Not mixed in? On top, she says. Okay. Natalia Hurtado. Chewy double chocolate chunk.

Megan Fudge. Brownie fudge chocolate chip. She says I'm married into this name for obvious reasons. Oliver Roop. My homemade chocolate chip cookies Lauren Holton Chocolate no-bake cookies Kelly O Oatmeal scotchies

Cassie Phelps Dark chocolate chum Carrie Halliburton Red velvet with white chocolate chips Jenna Klein! This is the exclamation point after her name? She says, I don't like sweets. Dare I say pretzels?

No! Get the fuck out of here with your pretzels! No! Pretzels? No! Is a pretzel a cookie? No! Also, sometimes on an airplane, they'll give me the pretzels and I won't even eat them.

That's what I think of pretzels. Because you're so mad that you had to take your shoes off to get all that hair play. Security Theater. Annabelle Morales. Snickerdoodles. Erin Daly. Triple Chocolate Chunk. Stephanie Kroll. Oatmeal Raisin. Skylar Haynes.

Oh my god, did you hear that? Was that you? That was my stomach. Oh no. I thought that was the radiator. We've got to hurry this up. I'm concerned. You should be. She's gonna blow!

Okay, whose name did you just do? Skylar? Yeah, Skylar Haynes. Snickerdoodles. Andrea Steiger. Chocolate chip. Hibba. Chocolate chip and pistachio brownie cookie.

Okay, that probably is pretty good. Okay, all right. Jodi Sasso. Crumble waffle cookies. Amy R. Chocolate peanut butter chip. Robin F. White. Chocolate.

Oh, no. Robin F. White chocolate macadamia. Don't steal my words. Sorry, Robin. Crystal Fairchild. Cherry zinger cookie Oh okay Selena Pena No favorite cookie but let's talk about cookie dough

Alright Tatum Langley No bake oatmeal cookies And three exclamation points No four excuse me Mona Hopland She only did three exclamation points. No, four. Excuse me. Mona Hopland. Oatmeal cookies.

She only did one exclamation point. So I was like, yeah. Oh my God, I'm about to explode. Shanna! I'm about to get through this. Macaroons. Allie Buchanan. Speculoos? Speculoos?

Oh my God, do you hear? I am. I'm very concerned. Becca Banfield. Chocolate chip cookies. Oh my God. do you hear? I am. I'm very concerned. Becca Banfield. Chocolate chip cookies. Oh my god. Without chocolate chips. What?

What? We have no time to react. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Chris is about to explode, everyone. What is happening? Is it the soup? Maybe the soup heard me talking shit on it, and now it's like, it's gonna explode out of me. Yeah, the shit going to explode out of me.

It's going to explode out of you, that's for sure. All right. Thank you all of you for all of your support. We appreciate it very much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And head on over to Apple Podcasts.

Leave us a five-star rating and review. And then be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new podcasts on two whole new topics. Oh, my God. Podcasts are good. Yeah. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary.

And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. And sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from reporting by Tim O'Neill for the St. Louis Dispatch, Malcolm Gay's article, Monster Next Door, from the Riverfront Times, the Crime Museum, and Wikipedia. I got my info from an article by Michael Dorman for Newsday, an article for Esquire by Mike McElroy. We have no time for you to mispronounce this. An article for New York Daily News by Robert Dominguez, FBI.gov, and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit

lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. Oh my god, I'm gonna die. Very concerned for you?