Let's Go To Court! - 187: What are the chances??

Episode Date: September 15, 2021

Candy Williams couldn’t believe her luck. She’d been out on the beach in late 2005, when a handsome stranger approached her. His name was Jovan Collier. The pair quickly hit it off. Jovan was charming and funny -- and not at all afraid of commitment. Three months later, Candy and Jovan were living together and planning to get married. But as Candy later discovered, there was quite a bit she didn’t know about Jovan. The least of which was his actual name.  Then Kristin tells us about Sharee and Warren Smith, who were living quiet lives in Birmingham, raising their young son. One day, an older man knocked on their door. He told Sharee that he was considering moving in next door. When Sharee asked him why he was moving, he told her that his neighbors were too loud. He suspected they were drug dealers. Sharee felt sorry for the old man. A few weeks later, the man -- Harry Street -- moved in next door with his wife and their young daughter. Pretty quickly, he proved to be a nightmare neighbor. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: An episode of Nightmare Neighbour Next Door (season four, episode 5) “The night Barry Williams killed five people after neighbour dispute over noise,” by Nick McCarthy for the Birmingham Mail “Shooting spree killer Harry Street detained over bomb and weapons,” BBC “Harry Street: 1978 West Bromwich killings remembered,” BBC “Mass killer Harry Street detained indefinitely over weapons charges,” The Guardian “Harry Street: Timeline of a serial killer,” Birmingham Mail In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “A Teen Killer’s Dark Secret” by Bruce Vielmetti, The Journal Sentinel “Teen’s Dark Secret: He Murdered His Family” by Ashley Bridges and Miguel Sancho “From Teen Killer to Obsessive Stalker: How a boy who slayed 3 members of his family ended u behind bars 25 years later” The Daily Mail “Man who slaughtered family 30 years ago arrested in Texas for harassing ex-fiancee who learned of his past” by Sasha Goldstein, New York Daily News “Convicted killer pleads guilty to harassing 3 McLennan County women” by Tommy Witherspoon, Waco Tribune-Herald YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 25+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about a terrible neighbor.

And I'll be talking about a stalker. Okay, okay. I like a good stalking case. I know you do. I have to tell you, I'm very excited about this case. It's maybe my favorite case I've ever done. No! On the podcast. And I just stumbled upon it organically.

Okay. I think you're going to really like my case. Oh my gosh. It's not like our normal episodes that suck. This one's going to be good. Oh, I'm excited. We've eaten Mexican food

and had margaritas and custard. Barsteth seems here. I belched before we recorded, but I'm ready to be a lady right now. That's right. Microphone's on. That's exactly right. Brandy shatter pants. She's all cleaned up now.

I did not. I did not. We have some wipes handy. I did no such thing. How dare you? I know. You get real sensitive about that kind of thing. I'm considering issuing an apology. About what?

People are a little fired up about how judgy I was about the fantasy role-playing games on the last episode. I do apologize. I did not mean to come off so judgy. It's just not for me. You know, to each their own. I know lots of people that play Dungeons & Dragons.

That's great for you. I'm very happy for all of you. Are you? I just don't get it. Are you really? I just don't get it. And I really? I just don't get it. And I don't know what an orc is. David was very disappointed in me.

Meanwhile, I've been reading all kinds of orcgasm books. I bet you have. You're down a real deep fantasy erotica wormhole. Rabbit hole. Wormhole. Rabbit hole. Rabbit hole.

Yeah. I think a wormhole's in space. It's too small. It's too small. And I owe you an apology, ma'am. That's right. I'm ready. Hold on.

Okay, fuck off. Okay. You made yet another joke on the podcast that I brushed off as some dumb comment but was really a hilarious pun thank you yeah you said pussy footing around uh-huh in regard to detective foot yes after I'd made a number of foot puns that's correct and it was like I'm the pun genius she's the pun dumbass nothing could ever come out of her. And so I missed your excellent pun. And for that, I apologize.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. All right. All right. That's enough. That's plenty of that. Hey, what do we got going on over on Patreon right now?

Not much. Great. That's a great ad. Thank you. Not much going on over there, but if you'd like to throw some money at us, we'll take it. Kind of dead over there. No, it's never

dead over on Patreon. We've got a great new bonus episode up. We talked about it before, but it's still newish. It's still newish. We've got 26 of those bad boys. 26 meaty boy bonus episodes. Brandi, tell us more. Okay, to get those, all you gotta do is sign up at the $5 level.

If you sign up at the... And that also gets you in the Discord. How dare I forget what I believe maybe to be the best... Are you okay? Reward for signing up for Patreon. What do you call it? Perk? The best Patreon perk. I did get stuck.

It was like I was a robot in like my program. We're really struggling here. Was not coming through. Because the only reason I threw that to you was because I had to belch away from the microphone. So I belched away from the microphone. We are professionals. You couldn't find the word perk in your brain. Yes. Anyway. Anyway, so you get that at the $5, $7

level. You get all of that. Plus you get inducted on the podcast. You get a monthly Zoom hangout with us. On the next one we are making Mandelflarn! You all asked for it! That's right! Everybody wants

Mandelflarn! Yeah, so we're doing that. Yep, and it's probably going to be the same story. And you also, did I say you get inducted? Because you get inducted and you get a sticker with our autographs, not on the sticker. They're kind of on a card and then you get the sticker inside the card. Kind of on a card.

It's a whole thing. Yeah. And if that's not enough for you, and it's probably not, we also have a $10 level. What happens at that level? It's the Bob10 level. What happens at that level? It's the Bob Moss level. You get all that stuff we already talked about. Plus

you get ad-free episodes and you get them a day early. But that's not all, folks. You also get 10% off merch. I was going to guess 5, but you said 10. The rewards are endless, except that's where they end.

That's it. It's a hard stop right there. I don't know if I can pull it together. I'm feeling kind of goofy, kind of loosey. I'm kind of excited. Do you see my arms? I see your flailing arms. You're not paying enough attention to me.

I can tell you that right now. Jesus. Are you fading on me? Oh, my God. I can tell you that right now. Jesus. Are you fading on me? Oh, my God. I'm sorry. I will get it together. Did I tell you that Norm and I walked out of the Auschwitz exhibit at Union Station this weekend? You did?

We stormed out. Why? Let me tell you what happened at Kansas City's own Union Station on Thursday. What happened? Okay. So they have an Auschwitz exhibit. Yeah. I bought tickets like a month in advance because, you know, it's supposed to be a great exhibit.

Yes. And I thought it would be a safe activity because you buy your tickets for like a specific time. And there are only so many people allowed in there. And you do an audio tour. So you're all kind of spaced out accordingly. There's a fucking madhouse in there. It was a fucking madhouse. Yeah.

We showed up. It was packed with people. And of course, some of them had their noses out. Fucking dicks out of their pants. Yeah. Oh my God. Over there. I wish they'd had their dicks out.

Instead, they had their noses out over their masks. Yeah. No one there to, like, police them. I would love that job. Smack people right on the nose. Yeah. Anyway. Would you do it with, like, a stick? You wouldn't want to do it with your hand. No. So you'd have, like, a nose

thwopping stick? And really, I don't want to talk to people who have their masks down anyway. Because they're just wild people. But let me tell you. Let me tell you what happened. What? Okay. So we're like a third of the way through the exhibit. We're packed in like sardines with all these other people.

And Norm was finally like, you know what? This just isn't safe. We need to leave. Yeah. So I'm like, okay. And, you know, we're vaccinated and everything, but we're not like, no, we're not crazy risk takers. There's variants and yeah. Yeah.

Yep. So we zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, sang that song as we zoomed through the exhibit, dodging people right and left. Uh-huh. Zigging and zagging. Hacking and coughing. Yeah. Moving and grooving.

Okay, we get out to the end and there's this older woman with beautiful hair. And she is standing there talking to the end and there's this older woman with beautiful hair and she is standing there talking to the employees and she's in the middle of telling them someone is going to get sick at this exhibit yeah people are packed in too tight again she's very fired up beautiful hair yeah and the people are looking at her like meh and so i so I was like, you know, I saw Kristen of the future, Kristen 30 years ago. And I said, yeah, that's actually why we're leaving right now, too, because you can't practice social distancing in there. Yeah. And I said, you know, if you're going to do that, that's fine. But you need to give people a heads up that they cannot practice social distancing in this exhibit.

Again, they just look at us like, meh. Then the lady behind us starts laughing because she's evidently not on board the beautiful hair train of this older woman and me. Yeah. Both of you. She's like, doesn't appreciate either of your beautiful hair. No, no. So then this older woman turns to me and she goes, and nobody gives a shit.

And with that, we left. Did you ask for your money back? See, my thing, I really don't care about the money. I want Union Station of Kansas City. Hello! Union Station of Kansas City. Union Station listens. All the time. They're just constantly listening to this podcast.

Playing through the loudspeaker at Union Station right now. I want them to just give people a heads up because there are a lot of people who don't give a shit and you know whatever that's fine but i give a shit yeah and i don't want to show up at some event and be like oh shit now i'm yeah putting myself at risk that's the thing that's the reason i think that you are owed your money back is because they didn't disclose that social distancing wouldn't be possible. Okay. Well, here's the thing, Brandi. I emailed them.

Those fuckers have not emailed me back. Really? And that is why I'm talking about it on the podcast. That's right. So literally dozens of people will hear about this. Dozens of people are fired up right now. Anyway. Just wait, Union Station. We're fired up right now. Anyway.

Just wait, Union Station. We're coming for you. We have a mob of 13 ready to go. Yep, yep. And we are angry and we are masked, so, you know, we're really not that scary at all. and we have fairly clever signs.

Uh-huh, yep. Union Station, question mark? No. No. Nope. See if I ever go to prom at union station again yeah that's right i don't think you're gonna be invited to another problem union station today question mark union station tomorrow Question mark, Union Station tomorrow. Question mark, Union Station forever. That was kind of a weird message. Yeah, I don't even understand the message, but you know.

Bottom line is, you didn't answer my email, so now you're getting this. Union Station of Kansas City. That's exactly right. That is your real name. I think it's really motherfuckers of Kansas City. You gotta get more specific than that. There's it's really motherfuckers in Kansas City. You gotta get more specific than that. There's a lot of motherfuckers in Kansas City. Anyway, thought we were going to have a nice, pleasant afternoon at Auschwitz.

I thought we were going to have a nice, pleasant afternoon taking in an exhibit about genocide. It's really sad, but in these trying times, that really was our, like, fun activity of the month. Yeah. Hmm. Anyway, it was just a bunch of old people, Brandi,

so, like, they're obviously going to be sick, and, like, somebody's... Die of COVID. Somebody gets going to die because, oh, the irony, they went to the Auschwitz exhibit at Union Station, Kansas City.

Yeah. Have I said Union Station, Kansas City. Yeah. Have I said Union Station, Kansas City enough? Yeah. Can everybody please tweet them? Thank you. Thank you. I had two margaritas and, you know, that's just... I'm off the rails.

Do you want to hear about a stalker? Did the stalker work for Union Station, Kansas City? No. Not to my knowledge. Well, maybe you could change it up. Okay. I'll see if I can work it. He's the executive director.

I'll see if I can work it in there somewhere. No, go ahead. Go ahead. I'll allow you to talk now. All right. I would like to give a big shout out to Bruce Vilmetti, obviously. That's how it's pronounced. Vilmetti.

Okay. For this amazing piece that Bruce did in the journal Sentinel, which should tell you. There's a buzzword in there. It should tell you it takes place in Florida. We love Florida cases. Sentinel? Yeah!

I like semen holes. Florida. Wait, is Sentinel not a Florida thing? I don't know what it is. Okay, wait, cut that, Patty. No, hold on. Keep it in, Patty.

No, cut it. I demand you cut it. Sentinel. Is that just a name for a newspaper? Oh, it totally is. I was going to say that. I don't think that means. You're absolutely right.

Patty, cut all of that. No, Patty, don't you dare. Cut all of it. Patty, don't you dare. You cut all of it. I demand it, don't you dare. Cut all of it. Patty, don't you dare. You cut all of it. I demand it. Brandy so rarely sounds stupid on this podcast. I will not allow myself to sound that stupid.

Patty, you keep it in! You keep it in! Or else I'll go off on you like I went off on Union Station of Kansas City. Those motherfuckers. You know what I'm just going to do? I'm just going to start over right now. No, you're not. No, you're not.

I'd like to give a big shout out to Bruce Vilmetti for the journal Sentinel, who wrote an amazing piece. The journal. The journal is a word that's unique to Florida, right? That's correct. That's absolutely correct. They only have journals in Florida. That's right. This brings me such joy.

How does it feel when you say something dumb? I hate it. See, again, I say dumb shit all the time. I couldn't possibly be bothered. If I were, I'd be mad all the time. All right, here we go. Anyway, Bruce, Bruce Viametti had a great piece on this, on this case. He's obviously located in Florida.

I feel like I've said his name wrong. I'm sure you have because you said Sentinel wrong. It's just so upsetting. Candy Williams was living her best life. She was a second grade teacher. She was just minding her business on a St. Petersburg, Florida beach in 2005 when she was approached. This happened in St. Petersburg, Florida. And the story doesn't come from the St. Petersburg Times.

It does not. All right. What the fuck ever. Anyway, it was 2005, and she was approached by this super handsome guy. He was bald. What? He was muscular. Okay.

He had temples. Was it Vin Diesel? Might as well have been. He's a very handsome man. His name was Jovan Collier. But she could call him Joe. Everyone else did. All right.

All right. What followed this oceanfront meet cute was a romance that could only be described as a whirlwind. Candy quickly fell for Joe. He was charming, sweet, funny, a real smooth talker. And they had a lot in common. They had both moved to Florida for a fresh start at life. They were both looking for someone to share their life with. And they both experienced great losses in life. Candy, who had dealt with, quote, lots of death in her family, found no more details than that.

Oh, OK. That's what she said. Lots of death in her family. family found no more details than that. Oh, okay. Yes, that's what she said. Yikes. Lots of death in her family. She felt herself drawn to Joe when he revealed to her that day on the beach that his life had been greatly shaped by the loss of both of his parents at a young age. They'd been hit and killed by a drunk driver when he was only 14 years old. I think it's a little weird to bring that up on the beach

when you're just meeting someone, but this was a whirlwind romance. It sounds like there was a lot of love bombing, a lot of information dumping. Yeah, this is, I'm on to this. Things between Candy and Joe got serious quickly. Within three months, Jovan moved in with Candy and they were soon talking about marriage. The relationship did not come without its growing pains, though. Candy started to notice what seemed to be some interesting character quirks in Joe.

He had some issues that seemed to be directly related to his childhood. He had abandonment issues and, you know, just like a little bit of an issue with honesty. Like what kind of issue? Well, so shortly after they began dating, Candy learned that the parents Joe had lost were actually his adoptive parents. He'd gone his whole life without knowing his birth mother. But he told her his birth mother had actually recently hired a private detective, tracked Joe down, and now she wanted a relationship with her son. And Candy was thrilled for Joe and super supportive of him having a relationship with his birth mom, even though it meant that he would be traveling regularly to Atlanta to see her.

Bullshit. This is the other woman. Candy remained super supportive when Joe revealed to her that he actually had a son from a previous marriage who lived in Indiana. And again, she was super supportive when he made regular trips there to maintain a relationship with his son. Brandy, how many wives does this man have? Not that many.

How many is too many? At some point, though, shortly after they'd moved in together, Candy was shocked when she learned that not only was joe still married all those weekends that he'd been claiming to spend with his son in indiana he'd actually been attempting to reconcile with his wife oh shit candy broke things off with joe and kicked him out of the house this breakup breakup was short-lived, though. Jovan charmed his way back into Candy's life and her home. He showed her the divorce papers, and he promised it was all over with his ex.

And he told Candy he was ready to come clean about everything. He was willing to let her into his life completely. How refreshing. And that's exactly what Joe did. He revealed to Candy that he hadn't been completely honest about all those trips to Atlanta to visit his birth mother. Yes, that's what he did on some of those trips, but other times he went there to visit a woman that he was just like kind of dating there. It was nothing, though. He'd already broken it off.

He pinky swore it was the straight and narrow for him here on out. All the truth, all the time. That was Joe's new motto. But like real quick before it's all the truth all the time, I just have like one little thing I have to get off my chest. Screech. So Joe let Candy know that he also had a daughter. Oh.

She'd been born when he was 19 and he hadn't had a real consistent relationship with her over the years, but now he wanted to and he'd been making some secret trips to Wisconsin, where she lived, to try and cultivate a relationship. But that was it. He super swore, no more lies, fresh start. You know what? I believe him. Yes. And it seemed Candy bought into the whole fresh start thing, and things were good between the couple for the next couple of years. In 2008, though, Candy sensed that Joe was up to some of his old sneaky shenanigans. He hadn't mentioned his birth mother in months but when candy pressed him about it he kind of brushed it off but candy didn't give in she kept pushing it and finally he admitted that he'd had

a bit of a falling out with his birth mother and it was because of candy she bad-mouthed candy according to joe his birth mother had made several comments about how candy wasn't good she bad mouthed Candy. According to Joe, his birth mother had made several comments about how Candy wasn't good enough for him. And so in the defense of his life, his love and his lady, he had cut off all communication with his mother. Kristen, you're flipping off the microphone repeatedly.

No one can hear that. Oh, wow. Joe is such a hero. You know, at first you think maybe he's kind of a bad guy, but no, it turns out he's just a hero because he's defending Candy to his very judgy birth mother. Yes. This didn't really sit very well with Candy. No, because it sounded like creamy, steamy bullshit. Yeah.

She interacted with Joe's birth mother on multiple occasions, and they'd always gotten along really well. But then... You know what they say, though? What? Bitches be crazy. And you know what? She remembered Joe's motto. All the truth, all of the time.

Wait, was that a for real thing? No, I'm just kidding. Okay. And so she knew she had no choice but to believe him. Okay. Shortly after this, though, Joe lost his job and he began spending a lot of time on the computer. So one day in May of 2008, Candy got on the computer when Joe wasn't home and poked around a bit

to see what he'd been up to. And she found that he had a very racy dating profile uploaded to two different dating sites. That was it for Candy. What did his profile say? I don't know. I wish I did.

All of the articles just describe it as racy. Why do they not think we're adult enough to handle it? What do you think it included? Brandy, I can't say.

A graphic description of his dong? That's not what I was thinking. What were you thinking? How much he loves to eat pussy you're probably right right i have to be right yeah hi mom and dad aunt denise kyla so this was really the last straw for Candy.

I'm sorry. I've completely lost my place. Was the eating pussy the thing that put you off track? That was it. Yeah. I don't know why. She realized that Joe was a compulsive liar and that she'd never be able to trust him. So, she kicked him out. This time for good.

For real. This time for good. For real. Joe, as you might have expected, handled this breakup super, super badly. He's just a great guy, Brandy. God, why does no one understand him but me? Almost immediately, he began sending hundreds and hundreds of emails. Oh.

He professed his love for Candy. He said he was ready to change. He offered explanations for the dating profiles. And Candy ignored them all. What could the explanation possibly be? No idea. I really wanted to. I just wanted some attention. Uh-huh. It's just about the attention, Kristen. I really wanted to. I just wanted some attention.

It's just about the attention, Kristen. Calm down, Brady. Brady, calm down. Only a loser idiot would give that as his explanation. Anyway. So when she ignored the emails, Candy's home was vandalized repeatedly. Oh, God. She, of course, knew it was Joe.

He wanted her to feel unsafe, to beg him to come home and protect her, or at the very least to ask him to come over and repair the stuff that had been vandalized because Joe, as it turned out, was a pretty handy guy. But Candy didn't fall for it. What did he do? We're talking spray paint. We're talking about. I don't know. I don't know what the vandalization was. Candy, could you get it fucking together?

Sorry. Make something up if you have to. Did he knock over the grill? For sure. And he was like, there's spiders all up in my grill. Uh-huh.

Exactly what he did. Okay. All right. But Candy wasn't falling for it. Instead of begging Joe to come back, she went in a

different direction. She called the fucking police. Yeah. Yeah. And she was able to secure a domestic violence injunction against Joe. He was charged with

misdemeanor stalking, but the calls and the emails didn't stop. Instead, they intensified. They no longer had the, you know, this is how I love you and why I love you and please let me explain everything to you. Now she received one from him that said, I hope your world caves in.

Oh, I hope all your pets die. Oh, I hope the house falls down while you are in it. Oh, I hope you get into a physically altering car crash. Seriously? Yes. Yes. Dude. Joe.

Yeah. Yes. Those are quotes pulled directly from his emails. I hope you get into a physically altering car crash. That's really specific. It is very specific. And it could backfire. I mean, physically altering.

What if. It makes her more beautiful. Yeah. What if, oops, bangs up her tits. Now they got to be bigger. That's right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Exactly. That happens a lot. Common. It's very common. Pamela Anderson. She just had a bad car crash. Yes. Many years ago.

Yes. A lot of people don't know that. That's why they come to this podcast. To hear about my thoughts on Union Station in Kansas City. Yes. And boobs. I feel like at this point we have to say that that's not what happened to Pamela Anderson because somebody's going to pass that information on like it's fact.

And then it is a fact. It's not. It's a fact. She also started getting emails from all kinds of other people. But these were all fake email addresses that Joe had created. And they were like the same writing style. Yes. And some of them had these long, passionate descriptions of how, you know, Joseph's a really great guy. He just loves you and misses you so much.

And, you know, I just talked to him this week, and he says he's really ready this time for the straight and narrow for sure. And he got that motto tattooed on his back. It's all the truth all the time. And he's really in it this time. Some of them came from, supposedly, it came from his ex-wife, his children, his friends, his psychiatrist. Oh, psychiatrists so often will email random people on behalf of others. Good, good, good. But again, Candy ignored the messages.

ignored the messages. Then, in June of 2008, she received a bunch of emails and Facebook messages from these different people claiming, you know, they were friends and co-workers of Joe's, and they all said that he had died by suicide. This time, Candy responded to some of the messages asking for clarification, for more information. Right. But she got no response. Candy decided that if there was anyone who would know the truth, it would be Joe's birth mother.

So she decided it was time to reach out. When Candy called, she got in touch with Joe's mother's husband, his stepdad. got in touch with Joe's mother's husband, his stepdad. And when she asked him if it was true that Joe had died, he told her he couldn't be sure because they hadn't spoken in over a year, but that they hadn't received any kind of notification or anything. Right. And at that point, Candy kind of like offered a bit of an apology and acknowledgement that she had been the reason for the falling out and this whole thing. But Joe's stepdad was super confused and was like, what are you talking about? And before long, Candy learned that this relationship with his birth mother was another thing that Joe had not been truthful about. On that call, Candy learned that Joe's birth mother had not been the one to track him down.

That was the story he had told her. You know, she hired a private detective and, you know, tracked him down. There'd been a DNA test, all this stuff. That's not what happened. Joe had just showed up on their doorstep one day and introduced himself. had just showed up on their doorstep one day and introduced himself. Initially, his mother had been super happy about the reunion, and she'd even offered for Joe to live with him, and he had for some time in Atlanta. And she'd taken him and introduced him to her extended family. It was really this great time of joy in her life. But then they found Joe's behavior kind of odd,

And then they found Joe's behavior kind of odd and they worried about his intentions. His birth mother was a successful realtor in Atlanta and her husband was a plastic surgeon. And so they got really nervous about some of the things that he was saying, some of his behavior. And so they had hired a private detective to look into him. And it was after the private investigator revealed his findings that they had cut off all contact with him a year earlier. So Candy learns all of this on this phone call. And then Joe's stepdad said something that sent a chill through her body. He said, yeah, after we found out about the murders,

we thought it was for the best. Shut up. Candy was like in shock. She said, murders? What murders? And Joe's stepdad said, don't you know?

Oh my God. When it was clear that Candy had no idea what he was talking about, he filled her in on the biggest, darkest secret that Jovan Collier had been keeping. Jovan Collier had actually spent the first 19 years of his life as Peter Zimmer. He'd been adopted by Hans and Sally Zimmer as a newborn baby in 1968. When Peter was four, they adopted another son and the family of four settled in Wakanda, Illinois, where they would live until Peter was a teenager. In 1983, though, Hans lost his job as an airline mechanic and the family relocated to Mineral Point, Wisconsin, which is this little tiny town in Wisconsin that I have been to.

You have? Yes. What'd you do there? I went on a couple. It was just been a couple years ago. I went on like a girls weekend with Lisa's family, like her cousins and stuff. And we rented a cabin in Mineral Point and we just like stayed at the cabin all weekend. It was a great weekend.

Would you give it five stars? I would give it five stars. All right. Very good. Great time. Anyway, so they relocate to Mineral Point, Wisconsin, where Sally's brother owned a company that made like radio components or something like that. Okay. or something like that.

Okay. Peter was not thrilled to be moving and changing schools just as he was entering high school, but it seemed that the rest of the family was really ready for a fresh start. Things in the Zimmer home had been tense for the past couple of years. A family member had accidentally let it slip to Peter that he was adopted. He had no idea.

He'd found out when he was like 12 years old. And since finding out, Peter felt disconnected from his family. He felt out of place. He resented his parents. He grew jealous of the way he felt like they doted on his younger brother. And later he would go on to claim that his father had been physically abusive. In May of 1983, the Zimmers had been in Mineral Point for about two months when the guidance counselor at the high school where Peter attended received a call from a friend of Peter's back in Illinois

saying that he'd made claims that he was going to kill his family. Responding to this call, Iowa County Sheriff's deputies went to the Zimmer house. They lived in this kind of secluded farmhouse on the outskirts of Mineral Point. Was it rural? It was. It was very rural. Wish I could picture it. I saw the driveway.

Don't brag to us. It had a wagon wheel on either side. Oh, that's cute. It is cute. Okay. All right. When the deputies showed up at the Zimmer house, they found Hans Zimmer dead on the front porch.

He'd been shot five times with a shotgun. Then they found his wife Sally. She'd been stabbed 15 times. Oh my God. And then her body had been dragged out of the house and put in the shed in the backyard.

Oh. And then they found their 10-year-old son Perry. No. Who'd been stabbed to death in an upstairs bedroom. He'd received more than 20 stab wounds. And it was very clear that he had fought hard. He had tons of defensive wounds.

He was very badly mutilated. What they didn't find was Peter Zimmer. Gee, I wonder why. He was missing along with the family car. And the family gun and the family knife. Yep, there were six guns missing from the house, which they would ultimately find when they tracked Peter down after he used his father's credit card in Kansas City.

Word is it was at Union Station. Of course. Yeah. Of course. It's where all the motherfuckers go. That's right. He'd actually picked up a hitchhiker along the way and they tracked him down somewhere in Kansas City and they arrested him.

And they both went to that exhibit at Union Station. Neither of them had masks on. Now, this wasn't the time for masks, but still, I think it's pretty shitty. And they were hugging the whole time. That's right. No social distancing. That's exactly right. And rumor has it, the people at Union Station didn't give a shit.

They didn't. Even though two women with great hair both told them. And one of them wrote a very strong worded email in 1983. It wasn't that strongly worded. Well, you know, I got my point across. So Peter Zimmer was arrested. He was charged with the murders of his family. family but despite the heinous nature of his crime wisconsin law at the time allowed that peter could only be prosecuted as a juvenile he was 14 years old so he pled no contest this is

this is a wild crime for a 14 year old he pled no contest to the murders and he was 16-year-old. He pled no contest in the murders, and he was – this is really interesting. So he was judged to be delinquent, not guilty, because he was a juvenile. And so he was sent to the Ethan Allen Reform School, where they make great furniture. Stop it. And he just sat on a cozy chair for a few months. So he went to this Ethan Allen reform school and he spent four years there. He declined any psychiatric help.

Wait, whoa, hold on, hold on. You can decline it? You sure can. You sure can. Oh, whoa! Hold on, hold on. You can decline it? Sure can. You sure can. Oh, no thanks. All I did was stab a 10-year-old to death, stab my mom, and then shoot my dad five times. Don't need

any help here. Nope. Holy shit. Yep. What he did do there was he read a lot. He, you know, wrote a lot of letters to his friends back in Illinois. But shortly before his 19th birthday, he was released. Shit. Given a new identity. Shit.

And because he had been deemed delinquent, not guilty, he was able to claim his inheritance. No. Yes. So his uncles actually fought this in court. Yeah. And ultimately it ended in a settlement. Peter Zimmer got about $200,000. Jeez. But it was set up in a settlement, Peter Zimmer got about $200,000, but it was set up in a trust. And under the rules of the trust, he would get rent, tuition, and $100 a month in spending money for four years,

as long as he didn't have any interaction with any of the Zimmer family members or any extended family members. And as long as he stayed out of like Mineral Point and all of that, he wasn't allowed to go back to that area at all. And he promised not to murder anybody else? Nope, that wasn't in there. Okay, gotcha. And so in July of 1987, Peter Zimmer was now Jovan Collier. And he set off to start a new life in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. He did improve the name. I have a theory. What?

So he just got to like pick a name. Right. Jovan Musk was like a cologne that was popular at that time. So I think he picked it off of the cologne. Oh, absolutely. I think you're totally right. So he had a new identity. He was, you know, on his own.

He had a nice little trust fund. And it seems like for the first few years, Jovan, you know, spent his time trying to establish a nice little life for himself. He'd actually met a volunteer during his time at the Ethan Allen School. It's this female volunteer. I believe her name was Brenda. They really hit it off. He had nightmares about the murders. He would wake up most nights crying. And she really understood him and believed in second chances. And so after he got out, he met up with her and they had a baby and got married. Oh, shit. Wait, how old was she?

He was 19. I think she was around the same age, maybe a couple years older. Okay. Let the record reflect that I'm grossed out. Okay. All right. His daughter did not. I'm just saying if you're volunteering somewhere, you're not there looking for dates.

Boys reform school. Yeah. You fucking weirdo. Yeah. So they had a child. They got married and the daughter did not know of her father's past until she was an adult. At some point, like the relationship didn't really work out. They went their separate ways.

And eventually. Why? It seems like they were on really solid ground there. Eventually. It's a really romantic story about, like, mom that volunteered at a boys' school. I won't say mommy. Aw. Anyway, they got a divorce. And from what I could find, it seems like it was an uncontested divorce. She filed and he didn't show up. And so the divorce was just granted.

Bada bing, bada boom. Yes. At some point, Joe went to trade school and he became some kind of construction worker. He even started his business somewhere along the way and he married again after meeting a woman at a company picnic. He and that woman had a son, but that marriage would again end up in divorce

after he'd already started his relationship with Candy Williams. We know all of this. She already found that out. Whatever. So here Candy was learning all of this

about Joe's past over the phone and she couldn't fucking believe what she was hearing. Yeah. I mean, she could believe it and she did believe it, but it was shocking. Yes. In an article, she specifically said she did that thing where you lean up against the wall and then you slide down yes that's when you know you're shocked yeah you ever done that before no i don't think i have as a teenager sometimes i would press myself against the door and slide down but that was only when i was dealing with really heavy shit.

That's right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I don't want to talk about it. Okay, great. So here it was, June of 2008, and Candy had secured that injunction against Joe. He'd been arrested and charged with misdemeanor stalking, but he posted bail and then disappeared. Oh, fuck.

No. Don't like it. He was nowhere to be found. So now Candy, like, called the police and she filled them in about his past, the murders he'd committed in Wisconsin. And they called the authorities in Wisconsin and confirmed that Jovan Collier was Peter Zimmer. And a reporter got wind of it and wrote up a little story in the newspaper.

And now this big secret that Jo had been keeping all these years was out. And he was pissed. And the stalking escalated. Now Candy was getting packages in the mail. She got flowers. She got sex toys. She got a dead pig. Oh, what?

Yes. That's a weird mix. Flowers, sex toys, dead pig. A whole dead pig? A dead piglet. Okay. Which I would argue is worse. That actually makes a lot more sense.

No. What? You're totally wrong. You think a dead piglet is not worse than a whole dead big pig? Do you know how big a pig is? I'm saying I think it's sadder. You get a dead pig and you're like, what do I do? You're not, I'm not worried.

I'm not worried about the disposal because I'm going to call the police and they're going to fucking take it. No, they're not. Yes, they are. I promise you they're not. Yeah. This dead pig is yours to deal with. I promise you they'll be like, wow, that's really too bad. I've never in all my days.

Okay, bye. And then you have to decide, do I freeze this dead pig and save it for Sunday? Evidence? It's evidence! What are they going to take its prints? No! They're not going to do shit with it. No, it's evidence. They're going to ch-ch-ch-ch-ch. And then it's going to go

in a freezer. Your freezer. No, it's not going in my freezer. Until Sunday when you have to take it. I'm forced to have the police to take it. Good fucking luck. You think just because they're pigs they're going to take one of their own? Oh, bazing! Great. You know what?

We need more people riled up. I think enough people will agree with me. I'd rather have a dead piglet than a dead pig. I think a dead piglet is way sadder. Okay. Little piglets are so cute. Sure. If you come upon one in the wild, sure.

But if one is in your house and you are tasked with dealing with that thing, don't you sometimes when you get something big delivered to your house, aren't you like excited about it? But at the same time, what do I do with this box now? All right. You hate to admit that I'm totally right. I don't know that you're totally right, but you make a few good points. Totally right. I've received a that you're totally right, but you make a few good points. Totally right. I've received a lot of dead pigs in my day,

and let me tell you, there's only so much bacon a person can eat. Seriously. So she contacted the police, made them aware of all these things that she was getting, and then one day she's just like minding her fucking business at the beach, and fucking Joe walks up to her, which is a violation of the injunction she has against him.

And so she calls the police and they try to drag him down. But poof, he's gone again. Yeah. She had her car checked for like a GPS tracking unit because she was like, how do you know he's at the beach? But they didn't find anything. She bought a gun because she was just constantly like looking over her shoulder. As time passed, she kept getting like these weird emails and like communication from all of these men.

It turned out that Joe had posted profiles of her on sex sites using her actual name, her actual pictures, her actual address. Of course. Police were working hard to track Joe down. They followed up tips in Atlanta, Indiana, Tampa Bay. They looked for him all fucking summer and could not find him. Then she got another message. This time it came in september it was an email and it said what goes around comes around so just remember that you took my life from me and i am very lost and angry at you for that. I'm here in St. Petersburg and I hope to hell I run into you.

You messed me over and I will pay you back. Your rep, your job, all of it. First of all, no one says messed me over. You fucked me over. No, messed me. He doesn't curse. It's vile. It's a father's family.

Yes. Will not curse. Yes. Cursing, absolutely not. That's profane. So she took this new message to the police and they're like, okay, this escalates. This is an actual threat. This is a credible threat.

This allowed them to bring in the U.S. Marshals Service. Excuse me. Everyone, Brandy just burped. I did it away from the microphone very politely and ladylike. So the U.S. Marshals Service comes in and they look at all the information and they start searching for him. And they find him in three days. Well, good Lord. He couldn't have been hiding that hard.

All right. Where was he? In October of 2008, they arrested him at a motel in Savannah, Georgia. And he was on a trip there with his new girlfriend from Indiana who had no idea that he was wanted for stalking and no idea of his past as Peter Zimmer, obviously. Ugh. Mm-hmm.

So they arrested him. What did this guy look like? He's pretty good looking. Yeah. He's got, I've seen one stupid picture of him where he's got this like chin strap thing going on. I hate those. It's not working for him. It works for no one yeah no his pictures when he's dating candy he's very attractive okay would you get into a suitcase for him i might oh i might brandy you're a goner i know i know so they're going towards trial for him. And the prosecutors wanted to be able to present at his trial the details of his past crimes as a juvenile to show that his threats were credible.

He was capable of murder. A dude who can murder people. But the judge wouldn't allow it. allow it. All the prosecutors were going to be allowed to say at trial was that Joe Collier had a violent past. Unless Joe's attorney brought some kind of fact from the past up to open the door, they couldn't say any more than that. But it turns out they didn't need to. In May of 2010, Joe Collier pled guilty to aggravated stalking, and he was sentenced to three and a half years in prison. At his sentencing, he didn't make a statement of any kind, but he did like there was like a series of standard questions that have to be answered from the judge before the judge will accept the plea. Yeah.

And one of them, the judge asked him if he had a history of mental illness. And at that point, Joe paused, looked over at his attorney, grinned, and then looked back at the judge and said, no, no history. Ew. Yeah. He, he, he, our little secret. Yeah. Ew. When Joe was in prison, Candy Williams was advised to move away, but she declined. She said, you know, I'm not going to run from him.

And I believe that if he wants to find me, he'll find me anywhere. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Joe served about three years of his prison sentence. And upon his release, he gave a new address in California. And he just kind of disappeared. But in 2014, he resurfaced in Galveston, Texas. This time, there were three women making claims that he was sending them threatening and harassing messages.

So one of the women was his former fiance. And one of them was his fiance's best friend. And the third was this other woman that he had been dating at the same time. Lord Almighty. best friend and the third was this other woman that he'd been dating at the same time lord almighty so joe's fiancee had called off their engagement after her friend had seen a tv show and recognized him the tv show was called i dated a psycho oh shit yes and it talked about candy's experience with him and his past as Peter Zimmer. And so the friend saw the show and was like, called up her friend and was like, holy shit.

I just saw Joe on TV. He killed his fucking family. He stopped this woman in Florida. He spent three years in prison and she immediately called it off. And so he started sending threatening messages to the ex-fiance, the friend. And then I don't know if this other woman also found out about it at the same time because he started sending her threatening messages. Anyway, he had been arrested in July of 2014. He'd spent two weeks in jail before he was able to post bail.

And then once he posted bail, he was required to wear a GPS monitoring device. And whenever he was like floating around in Texas, the newspaper would like post articles about like. So like he was in wake like hanging out in Galveston. People should be aware. Wow. Yeah. That kind of makes me smile. I know.

Because like back in the day. Yeah. Newspapers used to print so-and-so came to town visiting her sister. We're talking like, you know, this 1920s shit. I love this. Local creep comes to town. Yes, that's exactly what it was. Searching for a new fiance.

Woman wants people on the island to know there's a creep about town. Like, yeah. And so. Shoot. So in June of 2015, he pled guilty to three Class B misdemeanor charges. And in exchange, he was sentenced to time served because he'd spent those two weeks in jail before he'd been able to post bail. Sure, sure. At that sentencing, though, he was supposed to get his GPS monitor removed, but the judge declined.

He said he would not remove his GPS monitor until he arrived at the new address that he had given them in California. He wanted to make sure he was the fuck out of his state. Yes. Before getting his monetary removed. Yeah, because, you know, he just pulled that the fuck out of his state before getting his monetary removed. Yeah, because you know he just pulled that California address out of a hat or whatever. Absolutely. And I could find no further mention of any other incidents with Joe Collier. So who knows what he's been up to since 2015. Ah!

Wait, is this the end? That's the end. Well, I don't like that at all. One little other note. There was so much outrage about the loopholes in the Wisconsin law that allowed him to basically only serve four years in juvenile detention and then also be able to claim his family's money. That they changed the law. So now juveniles as young as 14 can be charged as adults if the crime meets certain requirements. It's actually this change in the law that allowed the girls in the Slenderman case to be charged as adults.

Oh, yeah. And then also they closed the loophole about claiming the inheritance. Now in Wisconsin, anyone guilty of a homicide is unable to collect an inheritance or benefits from the victims of that homicide. Well, that just seems like good common sense. I agree. And that's the story of a stalker. Why'd you have to do that? Yeah, he's just out there.

Okay, I gotta... He's just out there being a creepy dude. You know it. Jovan Collier. Okay, okay. Oh, God. Brandy, you would fall for this guy so fast. I'm telling you.

The picture of him in the blue shirt where he's with the blonde one, that's candy. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, he's very handsome there. He's got a nice smile. In one of these court photos, he looks like Walter White. Yeah, that's the one where he's bald and he's got the chin strap situation happening. Yeah, I don't think that looks working for him.

And like a really pale yellow shirt. Hey, white guys don't wear really pale yellow. I would argue that's a sage green. Okay, yeah, fair. Fair. Anyway. Yeah, this one where he's got the hat on and the beardy, like the first picture here. Yeah.

I think that's bad news for me here this picture in the striped shirt that's when he was like 19 just out there living it up fresh freshly released with the new identity yeah boy whole life ahead of him oh god you know what i think we should do now? Hold on. You didn't like that twofer? That was like two stories in one. That was creepy as hell. Two stories in one? I don't like a story that ends with, and now we have no idea where he is.

Could be anywhere. He could be listening to this podcast right now. He could be David because David's also bald and has facial hair no no that's right the ages don't add up stop it how dare you do that to me you ready for this is it a twofer i don't know let's find out i can't believe you don't appreciate my twofer. I appreciate it. I was so fucking thrilled when I found out that was a case within a case. Did I not give you enough? No.

No, you didn't. Brandi, you're the best in the biz. Stop it. All right. Shout out to the person who recommended this case to me. Which is who? This case was definitely recommended to me. And you can't remember who did it?

I did not stumble across it on my own. I can't remember. For the life of me who suggests this case, I blame the COVID vaccine. Stop it. Don't do that. Is that why all your spoons are sticking to you too? What? Is that some dumb shit people are saying?

Yes, people are like, oh, I'm magnetic now because I got the fucking COVID vaccine. I can't even walk through my house without shit sticking to my body. Yeah, okay. Yeah. All right. That's right. Okay. Anyway.

Also, Bill Gates put a chip in me. Bill Gates cares so much about me. Yeah, exactly. Also, hugest of shout outs to the TV show The Nightmare Neighbor Next Door. It's a British TV show, which you can tell because they put a U in the word neighbor. Not next door. Next neighbor. Not next door. Next neighbor. Let me tell you, Brandi,

this episode really fits the theme of their show. Yeah? Is it about a nightmare neighbor? They're just not lying. You know, sometimes you'll watch these shows and they're like, they had to kind of stretch this one for this theme. No. Do you think this is the case that they based the entire show around? No, because this

is episode five of season four. Okay, so no. No, probably not. Unless they were really thinking long game. They were building to it. By the way, I can't tell you the exact name of this episode because I watched an illegal version

on YouTube. On the YouTube. And they didn't share the name of the episode because I watched an illegal version on YouTube. On the YouTube. And they didn't share the name of the episode. Excellent. I would be mad, but the person's username was practice makes perfect. Then they say nobody's perfect. So I stopped practicing. That's their user name?

Yes. How can we be mad for someone like that? I ask you. Also, shoutouts to the Birmingham Mail, the BBC, and the Guardian for their reporting. And you know it's coming. International case disclaimer. That's right.

Which, I feel like now I have to explain because people thought for a while that was just like, we're going to mispronounce names. No. We always mispronounce names. This is just, we're not always able to find as many good sources for international cases. Correct. Blah, blah, blah.

Yes. And we have a great grasp on the American legal system. I mean, we are definite experts. Experts. Complete experts. Not so much on other countries. The crown. The crown.

Yeah. And those sweet wigs. Oh, God. Love it. Yeah. Here we go. Would you have gone to all the semesters if it meant you got to wear a wig when you were in court? Maybe.

Maybe. Yeah. Maybe I'd be a smashing success. Yeah. Maybe i'd be jolly good yeah in england bloody hell here we go picture it 2008 we're in birmingham england on a cute little suburban street. It's all very British. They've got the classic brick townhomes, big tall trees, and according to this B roll, some people in Birmingham park their cars on the street and other people park their cars on the grass

running parallel to their homes. What? Which in my opinion, is just proof that white trash is not unique to America. In fact, it lives deep within us all. Parks on the grass? Yeah, let's just put this puppy up on the lawn. No.

So Warren and Sherry Smith lived on a cute little street in Birmingham, and Warren was a bald guy who dressed nicely and, as we'll all soon discover, was, dare I say, alarmingly even-keeled. Like there's such thing as too even-keeled. I submit to the listeners, this guy's a little too even-keeled. Submit to the listeners. This guy's a little too even keeled. All right. And Sherry had dark hair and was very pretty and had an accent thicker than that of the chimney sweeps in Mary Poppins.

Great. Do you have to do an accent for us? No, but there are times in this TV show where I have no idea what the fuck she was saying. But I got her vibe and I like her very much. She was saying, but I got her vibe and I like her very much. So Sherry and Warren were just living their lives, raising their adorable four-year-old son, Lucas, together. And they lived in what we would call a duplex. It's a large brick house which contains two homes, one on one side, one on the other.

Do you get the picture? I know. I'm very familiar with a duplex. Okay. Oh, not your brick. Lived in a couple in my day one day in 2008 sherry was sitting in her lounge oh what's that like a living room yes but it sounds so much better why don't we call it the lounge because we're trash yeah but i mean we don't park our

cars on lawns so i mean anyway yeah so she you get the. She's sitting in her lounge watching the telly when she looked out her window and saw an elderly gentleman walking up her path. The doorbell rang and she went to answer it. And, you know, there was this sweet looking older white guy. And he explained to her that he was thinking of moving in next door to her. And he wondered if he could take a look at the garden. And she was like, yeah, sure, of course. So she look at the garden and she was like yeah sure of course so she showed him the garden and maybe a shared garden um no but maybe you know just be a neighborly who cares brady can brady you would get into a suitcase for some you're right i totally

like come on in do you want to dig a hole and see if i can fit in it? Do you want to shoot me and see if I die and then throw me in there? No, what I imagine is maybe she had better access to the... Okay. Can you... Yes. Can you... Yeah. Okay.

So she showed him to the garden and they began to make conversation and he said his name was Harry Street. And because Sherry was polite she did not burst out laughing. Instead she made conversation with him and she asked him, so why are you thinking about moving? And he said, oh it's my neighbors. They are so noisy. They're constantly playing loud music and I'm pretty sure that they're drug dealers. And Sherry was like, wow, how awful. I'm so sorry. And he's like, yep, it's the worst. But, you know, good news. A couple weeks later, Harry and his lovely wife, Beverly, and their seven-year-old daughter moved in next door.

And when they moved in, Warren, good chap that he is, popped his head up over the hedge and introduced himself. Just like this much of him? Yeah. What was that guy from? Wilson. Wilson from Home Improvement. All right. Not the volleyball from Castaway.

Yeah, no. Different guy. Different guy. Human guy. Yeah. So it seemed like things would be great between these two sets of neighbors. And they were.

And that concludes a very boring episode of Nightmare Neighbor Next Door. And an exceptionally uneventful episode of this very podcast. No! No, okay, it gets bad. Two months after the Strait family moved in, it was a Friday night. Sherry and Warren were sitting at their kitchen table, talking.

They had the radio on, the volume pretty low. And they heard a knock at the door. It was the police. It was the police. An officer informed them that a neighbor had called to complain that they were being too noisy. Sherry and Warren were stunned. They were like, well, we were just sitting here talking. Is that his name?

Yeah. We weren't making hardly any noise. Yeah. And the police seemed to agree with Sherry and Warren. Clearly, they hadn't interrupted, like, a party. They hadn't really interrupted anything. Just, like, a 30-something-year-old couple having a quiet night in. What do they call the police? Constables?

Or bobbies? I don't know. Bobby! Bobby! Or Bobby's? I don't know. Bobby! That's what they say.

Ask anybody. So the police left, but this pattern repeated itself for months. The Smith family would just be living their normal, quiet lives, and all of a sudden the police would show up. The complaints kind of varied. Sometimes Harry would be like, They're over there partying! They're so loud! Or,

They're banging on the walls! They're so loud! Or, and I don't fully understand this one, but one of the officers in this TV show said that Harry would often call to report general antisocial behavior. The fuck's that mean? I think we can all agree that it means that Harry invited them over for parties and they said maybe and then they never got back to him. You're exactly right. Which is a reason to call the police. But the major complaint from Harry was that the neighbors were too loud. And they were very loud.

Everything about them was loud. Their voices, their laughter, their walks, their scarves. They had loud scarves. What the fuck's a loud scarf? Bright colors. You ever had a loud scarf? Oh. I don't know that they really had loud scarves. They had loud scarves. What the fuck's a loud scarf? Bright colors. You ever had a loud scarf? Oh. I don't know that they really had loud scarves.

Okay. You don't seem like a scarf person. I'm not. What the hell? Scarves are great. Okay. What? I don't do a lot of stuff.

Like, I don't really do necklaces and stuff. Yeah, why not? Just because of that? It's because of my scar. It feels weird on my scar. Really? Yeah, so I have, on my neck, I of my scar. It feels weird on my scar. Really? Yeah. So I have on my neck, I have my scar from where I got my thyroid removed.

And it's like, it's so healed now that you really can't see it. You can't see it at all. But it feels odd when stuff touches it sometimes. So yeah, it bothers me. I don't like a high neck. I don't like. Is that the reason why you didn't let David buy you the Titanic necklace at the Titanic Museum? No.

Even though you wanted it so badly. No, that's because it was ugly. No, he could have made it into a belly chain for you. Oh, yes, because I often wear belly chains. I'm rarely without my belly chain. Wait, what if you did, like, one of those wallet chains? Oh, I did a one of those wallet chains? Oh, I did a Heart of the Ocean wallet chain.

Yeah, be beautiful. There's still time. Okay, so you know, they're just loud. You get the idea, loud. Yeah. This was pretty distressing and annoying for Sherry and Warren. Literally any time they had people over for a birthday party or even just to hang out, the cops would inevitably show up. And I would burp. But as I told you several pages ago, Warren was nothing if not even keeled.

Warren was nothing if not even keeled. So he went over to Harry's house and he apologized. He said, hey, I'm sorry about the noise. Here's my phone number. Next time you hear noise from us, just ring me. There's no need to call the police. But you know something? That was a super normal solution to this problem.

Yeah. And Harry was not into it one bit. So around this time, Harry got weirder. He began copying everything the Smith family did. The Smiths put a shed in their backyard, so he went out, bought the exact same shed, and put it on his side of the yard. Sherry also mentioned something else in this TV show. But as I said, her accent was thicker than a bowl of oatmeal.

Okay, here's what she said. She said that she and Warren got a pong. A what? A pong. For their garden. A pong. For their garden. A pond. And an hour later, Harry came back with the exact same pong. And put it in his garden.

You don't buy a pond. Yes, you do. Like a koi pond? Yes. Okay. Okay. All right. You would not believe the number of times.

Okay, she could have said pool. First time I heard pool. Second time I heard pond. Third time I heard pong, like the Atari pong game for the garden. For the garden. Which is a thing. I believe that they got some kind of water feature. Yes, for their backyard.

Maybe with a little waterfall, maybe with some koi. And I believe that we call it here a pond. But they call it over there a pond. Yes. So anyway, the important thing is they got one. Yeah, and Harry got one too. Yeah. I'll have what she's having is they got one. Yeah. And Harry got one, too. Yeah. I'll have what she's having.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. When Harry met Paul. So there was something about Harry that kind of freaked Sherry out. She couldn't. Was it because their names rhymed? Yes. So she changed her name to Anne. And then he changed her name to Ann

and then he changed his name to Stan to Ann no to Stan that's a real man's name get on my level Brandy God he had a bunch of monochrome stuff he didn't want to have to change it He had a bunch of monochrome stuff.

He didn't want to have to change it. He had one of those initial keychains. Yeah, he just H's out the ass, and he's like, well, this is really inconvenient. Do you know how many hundreds of dollars I've spent on this H stuff? Like, easily 150 bucks. Yeah, it's like H to the S. B to the S. Anyway.

You know, Sherry's kind of freaked out by Harry because of the rhyming thing and also because of his weird behavior. Which one outweighed the other, we can't say for sure. No. It's really hard to guess. Then, about a year after the Street family moved in, it was about one in the morning and Sherry couldn't sleep. So she went downstairs and put on the telly in the conservatory. This is a game of Clue?

It's the classiest thing I've ever heard in my life. They have a conservatory? I don't even know what that is. What is it? I think. Is it like a library? I think it's more of like a sunroom. Okay.

Yeah. Like a bunch of windows. Where you can serve sunlight. Yeah. I don't actually. Should we give it a bunch of windows. Where you can serve sunlight. Yeah. I don't actually. Should we give it a goog? Sure. I'll let you do that while I just drink some more of my iced coffee.

Conservatory. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. It's like a sunroom. Randy, you've done it. My God, you've done it. So, you know, she goes down to the conservatory, which is something we've all heard of.

Obviously. Puts on the telly. And she must have eventually dozed off with the TV on because all of a sudden she woke up to a loud bang. The bang was loud enough that it woke up Warren, too. So they both got up and they were like, what the hell was that? So Warren went outside and he spotted golf balls in his garden. Harry had been throwing golf balls at their roof. So the next morning, even-keeled Warren went up to Harry,

and he was like, Harry, why are you throwing golf balls at my roof? And Harry just ignored him. He ignored him? Yeah. You know how sometimes you throw golf balls at a person's house, and then they confront you you and you're like, I don't see you, I don't hear you. No, this isn't happening. So that's the end of that. Okay.

Then one Saturday, the Smiths sat down to dinner when they heard a knock at the door. Warren got up, opened the door, and there were two police officers. And Warren was like, what seems to be the problem? And they were like, well, you know, we've gotten a call that a woman is being attacked in this property. What? Yeah. And so Sherry comes to the door, and she's like, hey, hi, look at me. Do I look like someone who's being attacked right now?

I'm okay. Everything's fine here. It was at this moment, Brandy, and not a moment too soon, that Warren says he realized that Harry Street was a nutcase. Just now? Warren! So after the police left, Warren knocked on Harry's door. And when Harry answered, Warren was like, what are you playing at?

Why are you saying that people are being attacked in my house? Well, it's just so noisy over there. I just assumed that must be what was going on. No? Here's what he did. Slam the door. Slam the door? Mumble, mumble, mumble. Slams the door in his face. So that's

the end of that. Then one night, it's about nine o'clock, the Smiths heard Harry using... Okay, where the fuck is Beverly? Okay, so this is a complicated part of the story. The Smiths really liked Beverly, and they really liked the little girl.

Yeah. And so it seems they kind of felt bad for Beverly and the little girl, because clearly Harry was just awful. And Beverly didn't seem like, you know, she definitely didn't seem like she was behind him like, rah, rah, rah, go Harry, let me help you with the golf balls, honey, you know. So it was a very awkward situation

if you must know. Very good. Sorry, I've got an itchy boob. You and your boobs. That's right. Don't shake them at me. How dare you. Sexual harassment.

Don't look at it, baby. So then one night, it's about nine o'clock. The Smiths heard Harry using a drill on his wall. No big deal. They didn't think much of it. But then... Just his eyeball peeping through? I bet they

would have preferred that, honestly, to what happened next. Because he stuck his dick through. It was a glory hole. And he was just hoping. He'd seen porn and he's like, if I stick my dick through this, someone will suck it. But you know, it so rarely happens.

A lot of people go into pizza delivery thinking that, you know, if I do this, someone will have sex with me. Copy machine repair. Damn it, people just want the pizza and then you leave. Yeah, uh-huh. Hmm. Damn it, now you just got a hole in the wall. And all of a sudden the police are knocking like you're the freak.

So anyway, it's 2.30 in the morning. They woke up to a loud boom. Sherry and Warren jumped out of bed. Lucas came running. It sounded like a bomb had gone off. But somehow... I'm sorry. What?

Are you still thinking about his dick? His dick busted through that wall. Boom! Sounded like a bomb had gone off, Brandy. This is a mature podcast for adults. It's very mature. So if you could get your act together, I'd really appreciate it. I've got it under control.

I'm so sorry. Somehow Warren realized what it was. Harry had been drilling into the wall that separated their bedrooms, and he had inserted a steel pipe into that hole, and he was now hitting that steel pipe with a hammer. What? It sounded like it was about to bust through the wall. And so they were like, can you please

stop doing that? And he was like, if I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning. I'd hammer in the evening. Hammer at supper time. I'd hammer all over this land. hammer at supper time hammer all over this land

oh I'm sorry you weren't singing the bagel bite song what song were you it's like an old folks song is it like a Paul Bunyan song it's like a 70's folks song it's like Peter, Paul and Mary or some shit. Sing some, Brandi. Do it.

That's the extent of my knowledge. What a fucking shame that you know all the words to Christmas Shoes, but none of the words to this folk song from the 70s. It's a fucking shame you're right. Anyway, so the whole Smith family is distraught. Poor little Lucas was screaming and crying, but eventually they all calmed down and fell back asleep. And we're just like, thanks for the steel pipe in the wall, Harry. Then came another earth shattering bang. And by this point, Warren, who I would like to personally award with a black belt in underreacting, had reached his boiling point.

Okay. This time, Warren called the police on Harry. Woo! Woo! Woo! So the police showed up and said something to Harry. But that little pep talk didn't do much of anything. but that little pep talk didn't do much of anything because from that night on, several nights a week,

for the next several years, What? Harry woke up and terrorized the Smith family by banging on that steel pipe at all hours of the night. Can you believe this story? No! Sherry said the sleep deprivation was terrible. She'd go to bed anxious that Harry might bang on

that freaking pipe again. And you know, sometimes she'd wake up, sometimes she wouldn't. But eventually, he'd bang on that fucking pipe. Meanwhile, Harry Street kept calling up his dear friends, the police. Do you think he was just really into Tony Orlando and Dom?

What? I don't even understand what you're saying to me right now. Not three times. Oh, if you want me. Twice on the pipe. If I'm being too loud. Oh, my darling, you're the worst neighbor I've ever had.

Okay, that kind of fell off there. Anyway, thank you. So, you know, he's still calling. I mean, can you imagine the fucking audacity? He's banging on this pipe. And he's also like calling the police like, oh, my neighbors are so loud. I can't stand it.

They're so terrible. Never mind that I'm the one terrorizing them. They are terrible. So these calls, I mean, again, they went on for years, but they really escalated in the spring of 2013. And it was at that point that the police, who I submit were working with the combined mental capacity of a mothball, decided, holy shit, perhaps the one who was causing the problems here was Harry Street. Maybe. Maybe. I mean, who knows, really?

Who can be sure? Mm-hmm. Better give it another five years. Yeah, no shit. So this was a pretty big relief for the Smiths, because the police obviously kept showing up at their door. But now they'd finish up and go over to Harry and be like, hey, you should really stop doing this. Your neighbors seem like perfectly nice people. Oh, that's it?

Fucking arrest the man. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Slow, slow down, lady. This has been going on for years. And it's perfectly acceptable. No! No! Yeah, Sherry and Warren are being so loud.

No. So annoying. No. Poor Harry. No. Oh. Sorry, I thought we were on the same page. So this must have empowered Warren.

Or maybe it was that after putting up with Harry's shit for five years, Warren had had enough. So he went back over to Harry's house and had another conversation with him. He was like, why do you keep banging on the wall? And Harry said, you're the one banging on the wall and Harry said you're the one banging on the wall what and Warren said you know I'm not and Harry said I suppose it's the ghosts You'll be a ghost soon. And then he shut the door in Warren's face. So Sherry was pretty disturbed by this. But Warren wasn't. He was like, oh, Harry's just a silly old man.

Don't worry about him. What? What's up, Brandy? Here. I don't know. Is he like a sleepwalker or something? Or does he have like... What? Some kind of dissociative identity disorder?

Or is it the ghosts? No, it's not the fucking ghosts! Is Harry being framed by the ghosts? No! Excellent question, I'm glad I asked it. So, Sherry knew that something bigger was going on. Their son Luke was now at the point where he couldn't be alone. He didn't want to go up to his bedroom without one of them there.

They were all sleep deprived and on edge. And one day Sherry waited for Harry to leave the house and she went over to the street's home and knocked on the window. Sherry was super worried about Harry coming back and catching her talking to his wife, Beverly. Not for her safety, but for Beverly's safety. Because like I said, they really liked Beverly. They liked the little girl. They were lovely people. Harry was the problem.

So the two women got together and Sherry was like, look, why is your husband banging on our walls in the middle of the night? He is terrifying my son. Why is he doing this? And Beverly said, I don't know. I do try to stop him, but he seems to wake up like clockwork in the middle of the night and bang on your wall. He says he's doing it because you're banging on our wall. And Sherry was like, right, but if you're there with him, then you know we aren't banging on the wall. And Beverly was like, I know. I do try to stop him.

And his reply is always, shut oh my gosh so that sent a shiver yeah down sherry's spine and she said okay does he have mental health issues and beverly said no so that was the end of that conversation a while later on a saturday night it was like 9 or 10 at night, Warren and a friend were sitting on the patio talking when all of a sudden Harry popped up over the fence with an air gun. I know nothing about guns, but I guess this is the kind of thing you see and you're like, oh, no big deal. Because Warren just assumed it was an air gun. And Harry yelled, you don't know who i am

you don't know what i can do oh my god waved this gun around and warren was like go away and harry did okay it was at some point after this that warren and Sherry decided that they had to move. Yeah. They put up with this shit for like five years and they were sick of it. So in June of 2013, they moved into Warren's dad's house a little ways away. One source said that they had put their place on the market. But, you know, bottom line, right now you get it.

They're over with the dad's house. One day after they'd moved in, Lucas got sick. So Sherry had to pick him up from school, and they went upstairs in the in-laws' house and started watching a movie when the doorbell rang. And it's fucking Harry. Sherry told Lucas to go out the second floor window and see who it was.

And Lucas went and looked and he saw Harry's car. He said, Mom, I think that's Harry's car. And Sherry thought that that was silly because Harry didn't know where they were, obviously. And plus she could kind of make out the figure through the frosted glass of the front door and she was pretty sure it was her father-in-law. So she said, no, Lucas, it's Granddad, and she opened the door, and there was Harry.

Oh, my gosh. His face was pressed against the glass, and he said, I found you. You cannot escape me. You don't know what I can do. Oh, my gosh. Sherry was terrified, but she yelled, go away, you stupid old man. And she slammed the door shut. Sherry called Warren and told him what happened.

And Warren was pissed. He went straight to Harry's house and he was like, that's it. He said, a red mist descended. I told Norman about this story. I was like, this guy is you. Because Norman is like the classic under-react, under-react. And then all of a sudden, oh, hell no!

Red mist descends! So, Warren either, and by the way, this whole story I'm telling you is like directly almost from this episode. Very good episode. Anyway, Warren either pushed his way into Harry Street's house or Harry opened the door. Warren could not remember which because of the red mist that descended. Either way, he found himself standing in Harry's living room, or lounge as they say, shouting at him, and their foreheads were touching.

Oh my gosh! And Warren was like, don't you ever go down to my dad's house again! And in response, Harry growled. What? And bared his teeth. Ah! Oh my gosh!

At some point, the police showed up, broke it all up. And it seems that at this moment, and again, not a moment too soon, one of the officers was like, this Harry Street guy, he really concerns me. There's something about him.

Perhaps we should arrest him. No, moving way too fast, lady. Calm down. Maybe we should do some digging into his background. And that led her to Harry's doctor. And she discovered something very troubling about Harry. So the next day, Warren got a phone call from the police. And this lady from the police department was like, hey, we just uncovered some information about Harry Street, and I need you to vacate your property next door to him.

If you or any of your family members are over there, you need to get out. And Warren was like, is it really that serious? And she said, it absolutely is that serious. You need to not be in that house tonight. Was he a fucking rabies? Rabies? Yeah, he growled. He knows.

One of your worst guesses. Yeah. Do you have any guesses? I have nothing. Is this because of that Patreon episode? I will not be made a fool of again.

You weren't a fool. You were an asshole. I was. Dick. Poor Joe. Poor Joe. not be made a fool of again you weren't a fool you were an asshole i was dick poor joe poor joe you know the worst thing that's ever happened to him besides you know spending all that time in prison for something he clearly didn't do was a mean podcaster laughing at him yeah that podcaster's name? Albert Einstein. So the Smiths went back to Warren's dad's house and they spent the next three nights there.

And at some point they got a phone call from one of their neighbors at the old place and the neighbor was like, hey, so the police are over at Harry's place. And a while later, the neighbor was like, huh, um, armed response is there? Got it. What is it? He's a werewolf. No, that's only werewolves in London.

This is Birmingham. Oh. Try again. Damn it. And a while later, the neighbor was like, whoa, the bomb squad is there now.

So clearly something big was happening. And Warren and Sherry were completely in the dark. So they drove over to the old house and they spotted a police officer who they'd interacted with many times. You know, good Lord. And Sherry went up to him freaking out. And she was like, where is Harry? Is he on the loose? Is my son in danger?

And the officer said no we've arrested harry but um you don't know about this and sherry and warren were like we don't know about what and the officer said okay you need to know about this man. So a while later, the family gathered at Warren's dad's house, and an officer came to tell them the truth about their neighbor, Harry Street. He was a werewolf. Stop it! The story began in 1978 in Birmingham, just a few miles from where they'd lived next to Harry.

At that time, the Burkitt family was just living their lives. Iris and George were raising their 17-year-old daughter, Jill, and their 19-year-old son, Phil, in the home that they'd occupied for like five or six years. What? Jill and Phil. Yeah. You know my mom i know named sherry yeah she has three brothers gary terry and carrie it's a very cool thing to have rhyming names for your kids they were a very happy family. They lived in a great neighborhood.

Everyone was so friendly. Everyone except for the 34-year-old guy who lived right next door to them. His name was Barry Williams. And you may be thinking, Barry Williams as the guy who played Greg Brady on the hit TV show The Grady Bunch? Greg is a terrible neighbor? Don't worry. Different Barry Williams. I saw him in something at the

dinner theater one time. That surprises me not one bit. The new dinner theater in Kansas City. Well, are they still? No, they're done. No, they're around. They're around? They recovered from that norovirus outbreak just fine. Everyone.

Several years ago, they had, okay, so they had the buffet, which always had very good garlic mashed potatoes. They're known for their whipped garlic mashed potatoes. But then they're known for also getting a bunch of people very sick. A bunch of old people very sick. Well, yeah, only old people don't. Because that's who goes to the dinner theater, the old people very sick. A bunch of old people very sick. Well, yeah, only old people don't. Because that's who goes to the dinner theater. The old people and me. Well, but they can't be running now with COVID, right?

I mean, that's just COVID central, right? They are running. Boy. I guess those old people are like, you know what? I've had a good run. That's what my grandpa says. Really? My grandpa's like 89 years old and he's like, he's still going to the casino every day.

Where's the mask? He's vaccinated. But if this takes me, no, his thing was like, if this doesn't take me out, something else will. Okay. Honest to God. I'm kind of okay with that. Like as long as the people in the high risk groups are like, you know what? I'm fine.

Yeah. Whatever. As long as the people in the high-risk groups are like, you know what? I'm fine. Yeah. Whatever. It's the people who are in those groups that are trying to be safe. And then, you know, we're all going to the Auschwitz exhibit at Union Station in Kansas City where you can't practice social distancing and they don't warn you. So a kind-hearted podcaster with excellent hair has to warn you.

That's right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Anyway. So, you know, different Barry. Yeah. Anyway. So you know different Barry Williams. Not the one

How'd he do in that play? I'm trying to remember what show it was. I'm sure that I enjoyed it because you know I love them all. You love all live theater. I do. Big fan. So

this was not the Barry Williams who starred on the hit TV show The Brady Bunch. Instead, this Barry Williams was just a totally normal guy living with his elderly parents and giving everyone in the neighborhood the heebie-jeebies when they walked by. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Just a totally normal dude. The type of guy who was banned from the local gun club after he showed up with his own more powerful bullets and demanded that the gun club get moving targets with wigs on them. Oh, no.

You know, just totally cool, totally fine, no big deal. These aren't red flags. I think they are. I'm sure you didn't see this coming, but... What was that? The hiccup. That jumped right out of you. It did.

Barry had a big problem with the Burkett family. It started when they'd moved in several years earlier. It had been Christmas Day and the Burketts were, I keep calling them Burkett and Burkett. A thousand apologies all the way around. Anyway, they were all laughing and celebrating the holiday when they heard a knock at the door. It was the police. The neighbors had called to say that the briquettes were being too loud. The family initially felt bad and they tried to keep it down even though they hadn't really been

loud at all, but it didn't matter. For months, they'd be sitting around just living their lives and the police would show up and say, oh, your neighbors say you're being too loud. You need to turn your TV down. You need to sit in total silence forever. Whatever. The Burkettes could never seem to be quiet enough to satisfy Barry Williams. This all sounds very familiar. Hmm.

Hmm. Sounds like a twofer, doesn't it? It does. It does sound like a twofer. Is this a twofer, doesn't it? It does. It does sound like a twofer. Is this a twofer episode? Would this explain why I was trying to contain my excitement when you did your twofer because I didn't want to give away like mine's also a twofer? I was keeping it together and then you were so disappointed. I was like, she only knew that I'm very excited.

I'm trying to keep it together so it's a surprise. Anyway, so they could never be quiet enough, especially Phil. 19-year-old Phil was a cool guy. He had a ton of friends, and he had a guitar, and he sometimes tinkered with his car in the front yard. And people were always stopping by and doing outrageous things like talking and laughing and having fun. How fucking dare they? It's the worst. Have some fucking respect.

Yeah, shut up forever. Boy, howdy, that really rubbed Barry Williams the wrong way. Barry Williams complained so often about Phil and the noise that Iris rearranged the house so that Phil's room was as far away from the Williams side as possible. Wow. The Perkettes thought that Barry was weird and annoying, but ultimately harmless. They referred to him as the nutter next door, which is a phrase that will always make me think of a chronic masturbator or a fluffer nutter sandwich.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. The nutter. What about a chronic masturbator eating a fluffer nutter sandwich? Just one hand on the sandwich. I get it. I'm thinking about it.

One hand. I picture it. Going to town. Mm-hmm. That's a lot to concentrate on, to eat while masturbating. A chronic masturbator can do it. Boy, you really believe in people, don't you? Wouldn't they have to?

There can be miracles when you believe. Yeah, you're right. Otherwise, they'd just get nothing done. Yeah, a chronic masturbator. I mean, you've got to be able to multitask. Yeah, multitask. And maybe you're not doing everything great. Yeah, exactly. You're probably dropping some fluffernut

on the ground right next to your actual nut. That's bad. That was in poor taste. Patty, please cut this whole podcast. As usual, I've kept it very classy, and Brandy's ruined everything. So one day in mid-October 1978, Barry was up to his old bullshit. By this point, he'd been harassing the Burkettes about noise for like five years.

That day, he banged on the Burkette door to a complaint about the noise, and Phil answered, and, you know, Barry went off on him. And Phil was like, what are you going to do about it? And Barry said, I'm going to exterminate you. Fuck! But again, no one took Barry seriously. And then a week later, on October 26th, 1978, at about 7 p.m., Jill was inside the house studying, Iris was inside knitting, and George and Phil were outside tinkering with the car. Did he kill his family and then was given a new identity?

Are you fucking kidding me? Can you believe this? Are you fucking kidding me? I was about to shit my pants when you told your story. Are you fucking kidding me right now? How fucking crazy is this? Oh my God! The longer you talk, I was,

even when you just got to the point of, like, Jovan wasn't his real name, I was like, well, what are the chances of that? And then it's like, holy shit! Is this not wild? Oh my gosh!

Yeah, so we've got the ultimate theme here. This is the ultimate theme! So, everything seemed normal, until Phil suddenly burst into the house clutching his arm, and he yelled, we've been shot. The madman next door shot us.

Jill could barely make sense of it, but she ran to the front door to help her dad. And Iris ran after her, either trying to stop her or trying to help her husband. Some sources have this different ways. But the TV show said that basically neither of them knew that barry williams had just entered the house from the back door and so he shot both of them in the back with a semi-automatic weapon he peppered jill with bullets but she clung to consciousness long enough to hear barry shoot her brother again she heard her mom gasp her last breath. Oh, my gosh. Meanwhile, her dad, George, lay dead in the driveway. The entire family had been shot in the course of, like, five minutes.

Most people in the neighborhood thought that someone had maybe set off some fireworks. Jean and Joe Chambers, who live nearby with their daughter Judy, opened the front door to see what was going on, and Barry shot at them, hitting Judy. He fled the scene in his Ford Capri, and someone must have called the police because police arrived at the scene under the impression that there had been an accident with an air rifle, And they were under that impression because not everyone can enjoy the rich culture of gun violence that we enjoy in America every day. Not everyone's so fortunate, Brandi. That's right.

Colin Massey was the first officer on the scene, and he quickly saw that George, Iris, and Phil were all dead. But Jill, despite being shot four times in the back and once in the leg, some sources have it more than this, was still clinging to life. So he tried to reassure her and told her an ambulance was coming. And Judy Chambers, despite her injuries, was also still alive. At some point in all this, someone, perhaps a witness from the neighborhood perhaps one of the victims was able to tell police that Barry Williams was the one who'd gone on this killing spree so inspector Christopher Denley with the West Midlands police went over to the Williams home and found

mr. and mrs. Williams just chillin in the living room watching TV. Holy shit. They had no idea what their son had just done. So he informed them, and in the meantime, officers went off in search of Barry Williams. But finding him was not an easy task. Barry led them on a 100-mile-per-hour car chase during which he shot at random people, including children, and threw homemade bombs at people. He shot out the windows of a barbershop. He shot out the windows of two houses, and in one of them, a 9-year-old girl was injured by flying glass.

Later that evening, about an hour after the initial shooting, Barry made his way to a gas station, which was owned by a married couple named Mike and Lisa DiMaria, and he shot and killed them both. Lisa died instantly, and Mike later died at the hospital. Oh, my gosh. But Barry didn't wait around. He fled that scene, too, and managed to evade authorities all night. But the following morning, police spotted him in his car and Barry led them on another chase. And eventually he crashed his car.

He pulled his gun on police, but unarmed officers overpowered him in front of a line of 100 children who were all lined up to see the movie Grease. Oh my gosh! What the hell? Right? Yeah. So, Barry was finally What the hell? Right? Yeah. So, Barry was finally in custody. Kind of a racy movie for children.

Well, I mean, it almost sounded too perfect. You know, a hundred children? Yeah. Is that sensationalism? I don't know. You gotta shape up. Do, do, do. Cause I need a man.

I need a man. And my heart is set on you. Gotta shape up. Dude, dude. Cause I need a man. I need a man. And my heart is set on you. Gotta shape up. Well, how old were you when you first saw Grace? Oh, I was probably young. Yeah, I was in elementary school. Yeah. They're banging in the backseat of a car.

I didn't understand that, though. I didn't either. And they did it without a condom. And then Rizzo thought she was pregnant. There were so many things I did not understand. Did she put up a fight? Right. I didn't get that.

No. Pretty mature things. Thought it was fisticuffs. Boy, was I wrong. Yes. But a great message in the end. They also call the car a pussy wagon. What?

No, they don't. I believe so. Do they really? That sounds right. They call it a pussy wagon? I'm pretty sure. Boy, that went way over my head. Just like that flying pussy wagon.

In Grease Lightning, the song Grease Lightning, I'm pretty sure they call it a real pussy wagon. They do! I never understood what they call it a real pussy wagon. They do. I never understood what they were saying in that line. I'm pretty sure that's what they say, isn't it? Yeah. She's a real pussy wagon. Man. Mature themes.

What were our parents thinking letting us see that mature film? Oh, you know what the whole lyric is? You know that I ain't bragging. She's a real pussy wagon. Oh, you know what the whole lyric is? You know that I ain't bragging. She's a real pussy wagon. Oh, my Lord. Wow. Color me scandalized. What?

What else does it say? You know that it ain't shit. We'll be getting lots of tit. What? What? What? Oh, my goodness. Oh.

This has just proved to me that, like, I sang along to so many songs. I still to this day sing along to songs. I have no idea what I'm saying. Nope. Yeah. Anyway. you what i'm saying anyway those are the words greased lightning thank you for asking everyone so barry was finally in custody by that point five people iris george phil mike and lisa were dead colin massey the first officer to arrive at the scene remembered seeing barry williams after 5 people, Iris, George, Phil, Mike, and Lisa, were dead. Colin Massey, the first officer to arrive at the scene,

remembered seeing Barry Williams after his arrest and thinking, how can such an insignificant man cause so much carnage? Wow. Mm. But after his arrest, Barry spoke to the media media and he defended what he'd done. What's that now? He said, What the fuck? Mm-hmm.

His excuse for shooting the Burkett family was that they had been noisy neighbors. excuse for shooting the Burkett family was that they had been noisy neighbors. In March of 1979, Barry, who had just been diagnosed with schizophrenia and paranoid psychosis, pled not guilty to murder, but guilty on the grounds of diminished capacity to five counts of manslaughter. And the prosecution accepted his pleas. Okay, so worth noting, and this is another fun aspect to the international case disclaimer, the TV show referred to this as a trial and they may call it that in the UK, but for clarity's sake and from what I've read

in other sources, this played out more like what we would call a plea deal with a sentencing phase. So Barry's defense explained to the court that Barry had been driven to kill the Burkett family after becoming obsessed with all the noise that had come out of their house for years. And psychiatrists testified that he suffered from paranoid psychosis. And ultimately, Mr. Justice Stephen Brown, love that, sentenced Barry Williams to indefinite detention at a high security psychiatric facility. Barry had also been charged with the attempted murders of Jill Burkett and Judy Chambers,

but he pled not guilty to those charges and the judge ordered that those charges should lie on the file. And if you're wondering what the hell that means, it appears to mean absolutely jack shit. Yeah, exactly. Barry Williams only served 15 years. Holy shit. And in 1994, a mental health tribunal decided

that Barry was no longer a risk to the public. So he was released and went to live in a hostel about six miles from where he'd gone on this killing spree. Oh, my gosh. And people were like, I'm sorry, what? He's allowed to come back here? I don't fucking think so.

So this was pretty big news at the time. And Judy Chambers, who had been shot by Barry, was quoted saying, someday someone will be sorry that Williams was let out. If he ever got his hands on another gun, I dread to think what the consequences might be. So Barry was relocated to North Wales, and at some point shortly after his release, he changed his name to Harry Street. And a few years later, Harry got married and moved back to Birmingham.

Holy shit. Yeah. So that was the story that the Smith family heard in 2013. Their next-door neighbor hadn't been some stupid old man. He'd been a serial killer who had murdered his neighbors for being too loud. Wow. The Smith family was stunned. How had this man been let out? How had police not known who he really was? And how close had they come to being murdered just like the three members of the Burkett family had been murdered 35 years earlier? The answer to the first two questions would likely never be answered to anyone's

satisfaction, but the answer to that third question was pretty clear. Because when investigators searched Harry Street's house, they found six guns and a homemade bomb. Wow. It seems the Smiths had come pretty close to losing their lives. Warren, in particular, felt really distraught and helpless. He realized that if Harry had come at his family with a semi-automatic weapon, there would have been nothing he could do. Yeah. But at least now, with Harry under arrest, hopefully he'd no longer be a danger to anyone else.

So while the Smiths were digesting all this information, police also had to notify someone else about what Harry had almost done again. Jill Burkett. Yeah. It had been 35 years since Jill's family had been murdered right in front of her, but she had survived, and she knew her family would not have wanted Barry Williams to have the power to ruin her life. So after she physically recovered from

the shooting, she went to live with her aunt and uncle. And she went on to get married. And even though the doctors told her that due to her injuries, she'd probably never be able to have kids, she did. Wow. She said she felt like the luckiest person on earth to be able to have children because she'd always wanted to be a mom. So despite losing her family, Jill had managed to live a good life. But in the back of her mind, she said she was always worried that Barry Williams would be set free and that he'd come after her and try to finish what he'd started. She lived in fear of him for years. And that day, when investigators told her what they'd discovered, she realized that she had been living six miles

from Barry Williams this whole time. Holy shit. In October of 2014, Barry Williams faced 10 charges, including possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life and possession of a controlled explosive. Barry slash Harry pled guilty to some of the charges and not guilty to other charges. And just like last time, the prosecution accepted his pleas. And in court, Prosecutor Michael Duck said, Quack, quack, quack. And then he said,

The overwhelming balance of medical opinion is that this is a significant problem that will take a very significant time to resolve if it ever does. Quack, quack, quack. Jill attended this trial, which again doesn't appear to be a trial, but you know, whatever, we're splitting hairs. And Jill was there because she hadn't been able to attend the court hearings in 1979. And that's how she met the Smith family. And they all became friends. Ultimately, Mr. Justice Blair was pretty sick of,

sick of Barry's shit. Sick of your shit, Barry. Barry Harry. He said this was all way too reminiscent of what he'd done in 78. And he was like, by the way, I want everything I'm saying right now to be easily accessible to anyone who is in charge of caring for this man in the future. End quote. I do so to record the narrow margin by which the risk of further tragedy was averted.

And with that, the judge sent Harry slash Barry back to a psychiatric hospital indefinitely under the Mental Health Act. Jill and the Smiths all kind of say that the only good thing that came out of this was that Jill's family was vindicated. Okay, so it seems that back in the 70s, people seemed to kind of buy this narrative that they'd been like these really terrible, noisy neighbors. I struggle to even fathom this. But the fact that the Smiths had been this nice, normal family and they had narrowly missed being murdered meant that they'd been victims. Yeah, they had been the same thing. Yeah. Same thing had happened for the Burkett family, yeah.

Two months after this sentencing, Barry Williams slash Harry Street, which, my God, you get to pick your name and you choose Harry Street anyway, died from a heart attack on Christmas Eve of 2014. Oh. But this case wasn't over. People had a lot of questions. For example, I'm sorry, powers that be, how did you guys lose track of a serial killer? I mean, I hate to split hairs here, but he's technically a spree killer,

not a serial killer. Is there really a difference? There really is. A serial killer, there has to be a cooling off period between kills. Okay. By definition. Well, there was a cooling off period of about an hour. Is that enough of a cooling off period? Probably not, huh?

I don't think technically. All right. Well, anyway, people were mad. Yeah, I get it. All right. Yeah, the police were like, actually, technically. Oh, technically, excuse me. We did not lose track of a serial killer.

We lost track of a spree killer. Get it right or pay the price. So police, I, again, I am kind of, I find it kind of refreshing, some of these British crime shows. Yeah. Where the police were like, yeah, we fucked up because we never see that in these American crime shows. Yeah, no. They admitted, hey, when we searched Harry Street's name in our system, there was nothing

in there indicating that he changed his name from Barry Williams, nothing to indicate anything he'd done in the past. And so authorities launched a case review to determine how there had been such a massive oversight. Yeah. And I couldn't find a follow-up about how that case review went, so I think it's safe to assume that it's a giant document that reads, Oops, Fudge Stripes. Mm-hmm.

And that is the story of a terrible neighbor. Holy shit. Can you believe how weirdly similar those stories were? No. That was wild. That is nuts. It's so funny to me that we were both so excited to tell each other the stories and then it turned out to be kind of the same story. What are the odds of that?

I don't know. It's kind of like some Twilight Zone shit. Are you proud of me for getting a new water bottle? I'm so proud of you. And because it's a nice new one, you don't have that nose whistle when you drink out of it either. Wow. Haters, haters everywhere. Now it's time to do another seamless transition into an ad.

I don't know that I'll recover from this episode. Was it too much of a shock? It is a shock! I was barely keeping it together when you told your story. And then I felt bad because you thought I was underwhelmed. I did think you were underwhelmed by it. But I was just trying to not

give away the fact that I was like holy shit, we just told the same story! I was so bummed because I was so excited about my story and then I thought you didn't like it I hated it no I was like you know what we ought to do now take some questions from the discord

oh yeah you know people are in here asking questions because they're at the $5 level on our patreon You know what we ought to do now? Take some questions from the Discord. Oh, yeah. You know, people are in here asking questions because they're at the $5 level on our Patreon, which is the same level where you get all those meaty boy bonus episodes. That's right. Do you want me to say more of that? No, then I started looking at questions. People get it. Oh, Haven Monaghan says,

Today's my 30th birthday. Happy birthday, Haven. Happy birthday. Any good life advice as I enter this new decade? What do you have? I got nothing. I don't think I have anything either. Who the fuck am I to give you life advice? Do what makes you happy.

Yeah, we're a couple losers. Kerberm wants to know, Brandy, has your opinion changed babies with food on their face? If yes, what food will London be featuring? No, I've not changed my opinion. I think it's gross. And London hates it because I clean her face constantly while she eats. I don't like food on babies' faces. You're very judgy of babies.

So, okay. What? My sister Casey watched London one night, well, the four of us went out to dinner. Yeah. You, me, David, Norm. And that's how the couples worked out, you and me and David.

It's okay. So you stayed home with London. And she sent me a picture of London in her high chair in only her diaper with fucking food all over her face. You were outraged. I was. David and I had the exact same opinion. She's in her own home. Yeah, no. Who cares if she's just in a diaper?

Hated it. And you were like, white trash baby, this is terrible, blah, blah. Yeah, I hated it. Do you really think it's so bad for a baby to be in their diaper at home? Yeah, I don't like it. Do you think it's so bad for a human, like an adult? I don't walk around in my diaper. Undies. No, I don't walk around in my diaper. Undies.

No, I don't walk around in my undies. Would it be bad if someone did? No. Well, then she's not my choice. This is my home. It's my baby. I choose for her to be clothed. She's got pajamas and shit.

Put her in her pajamas. And what, like a baby's clothes are so confining that they couldn't possibly spend an evening in them? Sometimes you want to be free. Here's what I do feel bad about. So, Casey

then allowed London to just be in her diaper for a while. Yeah. After that. And London loved it. She did love it. Yep. After that. And London loved it. She did love it. Yep. She like rolled all over the rug. Uh-huh. Like felt the fluffy rug on her skin. Yeah.

And now her mean mom. Makes her put her clothes on all the time. Yeah. Because her mean mom is a never nude. She's trying to instill that in her baby. Boy. Boy, boy, boy. Yeah, she's just,

I think I need to maybe loosen it just a bit and let her, she also, Casey said, did this thing where she would sit there, she was just like pinching her stomach skin. Aww. She was like, oh, never seen you before. Uh-huh.

That poor child. Oh, no. That's went a different direction than I thought it would. That poor child. No. That's one a different direction than I thought it would. Clown holding a box of spiders says, I just want to let everyone know I finished my master's degree in counseling. I would tell strangers on the street if they wouldn't think I'm crazy. Congratulations.

That is an amazing accomplishment. Hell yeah. Shout it from the mountaintops. Or the rooftops. What do people say? I say, drill a hole in the wall that you share. And then stick your dick through. See what happens.

Maybe it'll be pleasant. Maybe it won't. Don't blame us. Skip Hollinsworth wants to know, when is the first live show? That will be a while. Yeah, not during COVID, man. No. Wag of the finger. Nope.

I'm still yelling at Union Station. That's exactly right. Orgasasm 69. Nice. Wants to know, after this past episode, when can we expect your new S&M fantasy novel? Oh. 50 Orcs of Grey, perhaps? I think we've found your next book, Kristen.

I still don't fully understand what an orc is. I feel like I've got a lot of research to do. Did you see the message that I posted to the Discord from David today? What? Okay, so when he listened to that part of the episode, he texted me. Uh-huh. Was he embarrassed

by our ignorance? He was. He was pretty upset. He said, an orc is not a goblin. With three exclamation points after it. An orc is an elf that was corrupted and went bad. And I said, I'm very sorry. And he said, I'm not mad, just disappointed.

Wow. Yeah, we really pissed off some nerds with that one. We did. We did. Ali Bree wants to know, how are the puppies, Kristen? Do they run the house? Oh, they're so good. Well, Dottie

growls at Brandy. Dottie hates me. Kit loves me. We are best friends. She is very excited when I get here. She jumps up on me. She gives me loves. Dottie growls and barks at me. I really thought that once I won Kit over. Yeah.

And that is how it will work. Because eventually Dottie will get jealous that Kit's getting attention and then she'll decide you can't be that evil. Although I whisper a lot to Dottie about you.

I say, did you know that her real name isn't Brandy Egan? I once knew her as Brandy Pounce. She changed it. After she went on

a killing spree. Of puppies. And Dottie says, so she's a serial killer. And I say, no. No, no, no. You're confused. Yes. Spree killer.

Yes. Very different things. What is this? Is this a thing? What? Outraged. I'd like to know. I feel like I'd never heard of shackets before this year.

Shackets? Any thoughts on these jacket-shirt hybrids? I've never heard of shackets before this year. Shackets? Any thoughts on these jacket shirt hybrids? I've never heard of these. What are we missing? Oh, I think I can picture it. Alright, let me close the pussy wagon page.

Oh, I like those. Oh yeah, that's cute. It's just like a button up. Yeah, but it's a little thicker. That's cute. It's just like a button-up. Yeah. But it's a little thicker. It's thicker. Alright. Yeah, so just don't be messing this up. Alright. I feel like my grandpa wore these. Yeah.

Yeah. I notice all these models are wearing, like, tube tops under them. Uh-huh. So it's like you can wear something kind of ugly, but then you gotta be real sexy underneath. So we actually, I didn't know this is what this was called. Okay.

But we have like a boutique section at the salon and we have like a flannel shirt thing. And then we also have like this crop top. Yeah. Like, it's like a crop top, tank top, turtleneck thing that you wear under it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like exactly what you wear under it in the mirror. Like exactly what these women are wearing in these pictures. I mean, the look is not for me,

but I think the shacket is cute. I'm not going to be wearing any crop tops anytime soon. Why not? Just do it. It's not for me. Alright. It's not for me. More power to all the people it's for. It's not for me. All right. It's not for me. More power to all the people it's for. It's not for me.

All right. You know, I barely ventured into shorts this year, Kristen. You have not worn shorts. I have worn shorts in public upwards of five times this summer. What? I went to the Legends in shorts this weekend. And you know what? Okay, there's a very funny moment.

Okay. Okay. Okay. I was at the Nike store, which had a similar experience at the Nike store that you did at Auschwitz. It was too crowded in there. Everyone was required to wear a mask,

but it still, like, felt like there wasn't that much social distancing going on. Anyway, I was looking in the clearance section. I had London in her stroller, and there was a lady

standing next to me, and she turned around and said, I see fat legs! What? I, of course, thought that she was talking to me. Turns out she was talking to London! I'm like, man, I wear shorts in public for like the first time in my life!

And then the next thing she said was, I love little fat baby legs! And then the next thing she said was, I love little fat baby legs. Almost punched her. I see fat legs. Boy, that's a bold move to say that. I cannot believe you have shorts.

Yeah. Wow. What has happened, Brandy? There's 90 degree heat. Brimming with confidence. Oh, man. Things are a changing with you. I wore shorts to two cookouts. Okay.

It was fucking 95 degrees outside. Yeah, I know. It's miserable to wear jeans. Yeah. I've seen you in jeans in so many settings. Okay. This year it was fucking 95 degrees outside. Yeah, I know. It's miserable to wear jeans. Yeah. I've seen you in jeans in so many settings. Yeah. That I'm just like, she's just cooking. Yeah.

She's basically a human crock pot. That's exactly right. Boiling in my own sweat. Yeah. I think the nice thing about getting to be a certain age is like, you know, you put on shorts and it's like no one expects me to look great in these. Right. So it's kind of like I'm just a 35 year old woman in shorts. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. And if someone says I like fat legs, then, you know, there you go. That's not what she said. She said, I see fat legs. You're right. That's so what she said. She said, I see fat legs. You're right. That's so much better. I see fat legs.

I was like, oh, no. I've been spotted. I knew someone would say something to me. Ashley, the teacher, says, not a question, but a request. Can the next Zoom call have Brandy cutting Norm, David, or DP's hair? It'll be weird to have her cut the hair on Norman's corpse, but the Patreon is worth it. We can make mine and Kristen's ASMR dreams come true. What do you think? Yeah, I'd do that.

Would Norm do it, though? I know. We'd have to convince Norm. I mean, you could cut my hair, but I don't know if that's what the people want. It's not the same. You've got to have a men's haircut. And David's just like a zero all over. So his beard trim's kind of exciting.

All right. But Norm's would be the best. You know what would be really exciting is if you tried to trim David's beard while he ate a bowl of chili. No. That sounds terrible. It would be a test of your skills, also a test of his chili eating abilities. No, thank you. Wow, you really shoot down all my good ideas, don't you?

I don't want to do that. That's Tova with a V says, would you confront a stranger in public if they were not wearing a mask? No. No. Me either. No. I i just go away from them yeah yeah and believe me i understand believe me yeah but no i i think anyone who's walking around with their mask down first yeah first of all they're not open to having like an intelligent conversation in the first place i think they're trying to bait you into it. Yeah.

And I think it's safer to just stay away. Yep. Ooh. Chris Lee 2113 says, Brandy, listening to today's episode, and I really loved the ibuprofen anti-inflammatory joke. Even better was Kristen's late reaction. You know, I got it right away. I just didn't want people to feel

dumb, so sometimes I just dumb myself down, you know. You know how it is. What was that dumb thing that you did? Oh, the sentinel! Oh! God, I've got to hold on to that. That's a gem. It's getting cut. It's getting cut out of this episode. That does not happen often.

We've got to keep that shit in there when it does happen. Cut, cut, cut. Cut it out. Shoot. Dogly lawyer says, not a question, but a suggestion. Let's set up a fundraiser. But it's just listeners donating money so Brandy will never sing Christmas Shoes ever again. I would be the biggest donor.

What are we donating for? Sir, I want to buy these shoes. No. For my mama. No. Please. No. What if I sing a different part?

So I threw the money down. I just had to help him out. There's so much emotion there. There is. You're starting to get me. That's right. It's like now I want to hear the whole thing. Lord Almighty.

You know what, the everlasting faint? I don't like your tone. I like it. Will you ever cover Jodi Arias? It was mentioned a lot in early episodes. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. You know, I wish we would cover it, but some dumb hoe has called dibs on it, and then she's, like, never doing it.

Oh, God. Oh, I'm scared of it. I'm too scared. She's doing all kinds of things she said she'd never do, like wear shorts and stuff. Or branching out. But, like, the stuff she said she would do, she's not doing. So just leads to a lot of disappointment for the rest of us. Oh, biscuits.

I'm trying to work up to it there. I don't think it's going to happen. Just another 200 episodes to go. Exactly. What if I did it for the 200th episode? Okay, promise. I was going to say, it's not that far away. I was going to say, that's too close.

It's too close. All right, should we wrap it up there with you feeling guilty? Good, good, good, good. What'd you say? With you feeling guilty. What'd you hear? I don't know what I heard. Something about a pussy wagon, I think.

Grease lightning. Grease lightning. Go grease lightning. are we on 187 this musical interlude brought to you by us scrolling through the inductions to get to the right place. Here's your little pink Kristen on the right episode. Okay, we are reading your names and your favorite cookies. These are the people who have signed up on the Supreme Court level on our Patreon. Stacey Liu. Sweet Martha's from the Minnesota State Fair.

Sweet Martha's what? Pussy wagon? We don't know. Stop it. How dare you do that to poor Stacy. Matt Coleman. Samoas. Not like me, Matt Coleman, right?

What do you mean, Matt? Like the rapist? No. No, not the rapist. Didn't he rape? Oh, no, you know. Which one are we talking about? The guy who just took his kids to Mexico and killed them with a spear gun because QAnon got in his head.

Oh, Lord. I'm going to go ahead and guess it's not the same Matt Coleman. Should we retake? We'll leave it. Brooke Conaway. We have one man signed up for our page. I know. And you're like, uh-oh.

I'm like, is he the rapist? You're like, no. Is he possibly the guy who murdered his kids? Sorry, Matt. I'm sure you're a perfectly nice guy who likes Samoas. Poor Matt. I know. Welcome, Matt.

Oh, no. Brooke Conaway. Cowboy cookies. What's that? Chocolate chip cookies. Oatmeal. Coconut. Pecan.

Spoken like a real cowboy. Were you slightly turned on by how rugged I sounded? So turned on Samantha Gibilaro M&M Cookies Sandra Grijalva Baritas Pineapple Mexican Cookies Oh god, I bet that'd be good Pineapple Mexican Cookies

Alright, alright I'd be willing to giveapple Mexican cookies. All right, all right. I'd be willing to give it a whirl. We'll try it. Kate Orris. Caramel Delights. Kate thinks she's a comedian here. Oh, what'd she do?

Look at her pronunciation guide for us. She said, Kate Orris, pronounced like Kate Orris. Leave the comedy to us, Kate, with our ibuprofen jokes. Shannon Mueller. Scratch Cupcakes Monster Cookie. Annie Reed. Susan Cookies. Made with real Susan. It's hard to find a Susan who's willing to die for your cookies.

Sam C. Double Chocolate Chip Cookies. Emily C. Double chocolate chip cookies. Emily C. Chocolate chip. You think they're related? One can never know. Kevin Warren. White chocolate chip with cherries.

Katie Burks. Oh, no. Bitter Coke-tious? Yeah, I guarantee you that's how I pronounced. Maria Jacobs. Chocolate chip. Delaine Anderson. Bitter Coke-tious? Yeah, I guarantee you that's how I pronounce it. Maria Jacobs. Chocolate chip. Delaine Anderson.

Chocolate chip sea salt. Sierra Gardner. Great value, Samoa Cookies, because I can't afford the on-brand. Very good, yes. Erica Nelson. Oatmeal with butterscotch chips. We call that an oatmeal scotch around these parts. Around here. We come right here.

You best be saying they're oatmeal scotches. Hannah Balka. Undercooked chocolate chip cookies. Caitlin Higgins. Nestle Tollhouse chocolate chip cookies. Chanel Valley. Rough Top Cookies. They're the West Indian answer to the Ginger Snap.

I bet I fucking love that. I love a spiced cookie. Welcome! Welcome! I'm sorry, I was so surprised. To the Supreme Court! You like jumped out of your seat. You were just like, the look on your face was like so deep into all the spiced cookies you have loved in your life.

I didn't see welcome to this room court coming. Thank you for all of your support. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. Social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a

five-star rating and review. And then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two, well, maybe it's going to be the same topic again. Who knows? Who knows? Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process.

I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from an episode of The Nightmare Neighbor Next Door, as well as reporting from the BBC, The Guardian, and the Birmingham Mail. I got my info from an article for the journal Sentinel by Bruce Vielmetti. Oh, that's Florida. And additional articles for ABC News, the New York Daily News, the Daily Mail.

That's New York. And the Waco Tribune Herald. That's in Waco. Very good. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours. But please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.