Let's Go To Court! - 194: Newlyweds & Anthony Gray

Episode Date: November 3, 2021

Hold onto your hats, because Kristin starts us off with a doozy. When investigators arrived at the home of James and Vivian Gray, they didn’t do a great job. They invited randos to help clean up the crime scene where the couple had been shot. Then, when they left, they handed the scene off to the crime’s main suspect -- the couple’s adult son, Anthony Gray.  Then Brandi tells us about Cody Johnson, who at 25, was thrilled to be marrying the love of his life, Jordan Graham. But Jordan wasn’t so happy. In fact, as she walked down the aisle, she cried and shook her head. Attendees might have written Jordan’s behavior off as nerves, but she later confided in a friend that she wasn’t happy. She was especially nervous about Cody’s desire to consummate their marriage. Not long after their wedding, Cody went missing.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: The ID show, “Kentucky Murder Mystery: The Trials of Anthony Gray”  “Kentucky man found guilty of killing parents in third trial,” by Michael Berk for CourtTV “Gray found guilty of double murder in third trial,” by Kiva Johns-Adkins for the News Graphic “Gray murder trial continues,” by Kiva Johns-Adkins for the News Graphic In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “New wife convicted of pushing husband off cliff 8 days after wedding” True Crime Daily “Newlywed Bride Pushes Husband Off Cliff 8 Days After Their Wedding” by Fatim Hemraj, Medium “Montana bride Jordan Linn Graham goes on trial in husband’s fatal fall from cliff” by Kyung Lah and David Simpson, CNN “Jordan Graham Trial: Did Her Wedding Blues Lead to Murder?” by Howard Breuer, people.com “Montana newlywed Jordan Linn Graham gets 30 years in husband’s murder” by Jack Hannah, CNN “Jordan Linn Graham” murderpedia.org YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 25+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be telling a brandy case.

And I'll be talking about newlyweds. Yes, I'm going to tell another horrible newlywed story. Oh, am I? How are there so many? Weird. It's almost like I Googled newlywed murders. Hmm. What? And now you're working through 20 pages of Google on them.

Do you feel a little threatened that I'm in your territory? I am. I am. I am also excited because if it's a brandy case, then I'm going to enjoy hearing it, unlike the usual shit you tell us. I appreciate that feedback very much. It doesn't hurt a bit. It doesn't hurt a bit.

Yeah, well, it's right up your fucking alley. Oh, good. My alley needs something right up it. Okay. Oh, my God. What? Oh, my God. What?

Well, we're a Christian podcast. This is a good Christian podcast. We mostly stick to recipes. Meanwhile, you have a cock on your mug. What? Oh, no, that's a... That's a cockatoo. Yeah, it's not a cock.

I would know if I had a penis mug. I'm surprised you don't own a penis mug. You know, okay, I'm very sensitive about my niece and nephew coming over. You're right. We have a mug that says, good morning, asshole. And like a really fancy script. And I'm just waiting for the day when Allie's like, I know what that says. I know what that says.

I can read that. Did I tell you about? So I was touring a house with Alexandra and her father, Jay, my brother-in-law. And before we went in, so she and Jay had already seen the place. And she warned us, there is an inappropriate sign in this house. And I was kind of like, scan this. Okay. Okay.

Do you know what it said? What did it say? It was a crocheted sign that said, you are a badass. Very inappropriate. I was offended. Yes, obviously. I said, I am not a badass one bit. I stay inside most days.

Anyway, should we do an ad? Oh, shit, probably. Okay, tell us a brandy case i'm so excited okay should be we be professional oh yeah hold on business cats first business cats all right join our patreon yeah we've got a patreon give us money you're really gonna have a great time on it we just put a new bonus episode out it's really sad but, but you're going to like it. We both cried. We did. Maybe you will too. I also reminisced about a family vacation.

That was fun. Which family vacation? My family vacation. Which one? To Kings Island Amusement Park. Oh yeah, that's right. That's right. I'm sorry.

I got a chicken hat. Oh my God. That's right. Hey, if you want to learn more about Brandy going to a gift shop at an amusement park in Ohio, then... I think everybody knows how much I love a gift shop. It is no secret.

So, yeah, that's at the $5 level on Patreon, people. What more do we need to say? And you get a bunch of other stuff at other levels. You know the drill. There's a $7 level. You get all that stuff. You can get inducted on the podcast. You can get a card.

I'm doing Pictionary right now. More like charades because I'm not actually writing anything. A card with our signatures in it. A sticker. And then there's the Bob Moss level, which is just $10. And you get all that stuff we already talked about. Plus, you get your episodes a day early and ad free and you get 10 off what it's true i wish you would have run that by me first why is this the first i'm hearing of this you're

just checked out brandy that's the problem no just kidding that's an amazing perk isn't it it is it is oh my gosh you should sign up everybody sign up right now. Oh, my gosh. Unless you don't want to, it's fine. All right. You ready for this? I don't think that's how we should end an ad for our Patreon. Like, if you don't want to, that's cool, too. I don't know. I mean, if they don't want to, they don't want to.

Oh, my gosh. You know what I really like? Okay. I remember this from when I was a kid. Okay. There was these commercials for Two Rivers Hospitals. It was like a rehab facility. Yeah, I remember Two Rivers. And they said at the end of the commercial, if you don't get help here, please get help somewhere.

I love that. And I remember thinking that was so impactful and being like, well, if I did need help, I would go to Two Rivers because they said that. So if you don't – That was – I remember it too. We've never had this discussion. I remember exactly how they say it. Yeah. If you don't get help here, please get help somewhere.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hey, if you don't get help from this podcast which boy we provide a lot of help please get help from our patreon is that is that do we strike the same note yeah brady i've got a fucking doozy for you today oh my gosh i'm so excited is it a double doozy like those cookies someone said they liked which Which apparently is just a cookie with like it's a sandwich cookie. Oh.

Wow. That's a little disappointing. I'm pretty disappointed too. I would tell you more about what level of doozy this is but I feel like that would give some stuff away. Is it more than a double doozy? Is this a triple doozy? So many doozies.

People can't handle your sexy voice again, Kristen. I'm oozing with doozies. No! People are on their commute to work. They're like, I have to turn around! Turn around! I gotta go home! You gotta call in horny.

She used the sexy voice. Nobody's calling in horny. I mean, if you do, then the great news is you don't ever have to go back to work again. They will not have you. First off, huge shout out to It's a Show on ID. I'm not going to give you the full title. Okay. Because after the colon, it gives some stuff away.

What's before the colon? The long intestine. Kentucky murder mystery. Colon, blank, blank, blank, blank, blank. Okay. Don't try to, like, wheel of fortune

this. I could see in your eyes. I was. Also, great reporting by Kiva Johns-Adkins for the news graphic. Never heard of her. Well, does she even exist? I mean, she's a local reporter in Kentucky.

Can you cut her some slack? She's never heard of you either. I'm sure she hasn't. What I meant to say was that I never heard of that newspaper. Instead you said I've never heard of her. Wow. What a dick. Yeah, you got real rude with it.

I was like, what? You expect to have heard of every reporter? Brandi, you are truly out of control. All right. Picture it. Sadieville, Kentucky. And if you can't picture it, don't feel bad because Sadieville boasts a population of about 300 people. No.

And when I did a Google image search of Sadieville, Kentucky, Google asked me, did you mean Louisville, Kentucky? In 2002, Jodi Lucas moved to Georgetown, Kentucky, which is a little bit south of Sadieville. And because she was bored, she began hitting up yard sales. Oh. And that's where she met this 63-year-old guy. Oh, shit. He wasn't 63 at the time. You know, back in the old days.

Subtract a couple years, yeah. Named James Gray. James was an older guy. He was retired from IBM. And he was super bubbly and fun. And she just kept running into him at these yard sales. And he was super bubbly and fun, and she just kept running into him at these yard sales. And finally, James said to her, hey, maybe we should start going to these yard sales together.

I'm happy to drive. Brandy, what's wrong with your face? I hate it already. You don't like yard sales? Yard sales are fine. You know the trick. What's the trick? I don't know who needs to hear this.

Go to the rich neighborhood for the yard sales. Oh, yeah. Sometimes people need to hear this. Remember one time Kyla, like, went to yard sales in our own neighborhood. I was like, this sucks. This is the same shit we already have. Yes. Yes.

It's like, no, you have to upgrade. Jodi was thrilled. She didn't really know anybody, and James was so nice to take her under his wing. You're going to have to explain your fucking face, ma'am. You can't just make— How old's Jodi? Good questions. I would guess 30s. Yeah, I don't like it.

I don't like that she's teaming up with a 60-year-old man. And then he just happens to keep running into her. I don't like it. I don't like that she's teaming up with a 60-year-old man. And then he just happens to keep running into her. I don't like it. I'm suspicious already. What, you think he's staking out the yard sales? Or stalking her. Oh. All right, let's see, shall we?

I have been watching a lot of you lately. Okay, I want to watch you because I freaking loved the book. Norman is just – he doesn't have the stomach for this stuff. No nuts. No nuts. He has no nuts for this stuff. So here's the real story. Oh, my gosh.

We're three minutes in and we're already on a tangent. Yeah, well, that's fine. People love it all the time. Never gotten a negative comment about it. Never. So David really wants to watch it. He saw like a preview and he's like, oh my gosh, I want to watch this show. And I was like, well, I read the first two books.

I don't know. Is there more than two books? No, I think there are only two. Okay. So I read the two books and then I've watched the first season. So he is watching the first season and I'm just like catching like bits and pieces of it. And then we're going to watch season two and three together. I don't understand how this is going to work.

Okay, let me hit it one more time. This is just like your complicated explanation of Scream Door. Yeah, I don't get it. So anyway, they started going to yard sales together, and Jodi learned that James actually owned a flea market across the street from his house. Does that explain anything to you, Brandy? Okay. Yeah. He called it Graze on Main.

Okay. Jody and James had known each other for about a year when James was like, hey, you should meet my wife, Vivian. And Jody was like, ugh, you should meet my wife, Vivian. And Jodi was like, is this going to be weird? I mean, is his wife going to hate me or feel like I'm, you know, up to no good with her husband? But Jodi met Vivian and the two hit it off. Vivian was so sweet. Over time, Jodi came to think of Vivian and James like another set of parents. In fact, she began calling them mom and dad. That's weird.

Why do you think so? I think it's weird. Okay. They spent holidays over at her house and they really appeared to love each other. But here's something a little weird. but here's something a little weird. It wasn't until Jodi had known Vivian and James for like two years that she discovered that they had an adult son. That is weird.

They've never mentioned him? Nope, never came up. No mention of Barnabas? What's his name? I don't know. It was the first name. Barnabas is the don't know. It was the first name. Barnabas is the first name that came to mind.

No. It was the even more unusual name of Anthony. Okay. Barnabas, Anthony. You know. Potato, potato. Their relationship with Anthony was strained to put it mildly. See, when he was younger, Anthony

got married to a woman named Amy, and they had two boys. And I wish I was making this up, but the fact is that they named their two boys Charles and Darwin. Oh, no.

Don't be cute. And we got, like, cute nerds, cute science nerds. Is that the story here? Anthony and Amy are science nerds? I don't think so. Okay. I think it was just, like— A cutesy thing?

I'm sorry. Am I supposed to act normal when you're, like, twirling the little shoelace thing on your hoodie? I apologize. That twirled up and about hit your face. So Anthony and Amy and Charlie and Darwin all lived on a trailer at the back of Vivian and James' property. I'm sorry, what? What? They lived right there on the property?

It took two years before she knew he existed? Well, no, no. This, I'm, I'm, oh, hey, we went back in time. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, sorry. I missed the woo. Woo. Yeah.

I should have done the Saved by the Bell. I should have had a pink smoky border around this part of the story. Okay, sorry. Pink smoky border. We're in the past. Okay. So the Grays had a lot of property and things worked out, you know, pretty well for a while. All of them living in close proximity to one another.

But then Amy got sick and she passed away very quickly. She was like 20 years old. What kind of sick? I didn't see that part, just that she was sick and it just happened super fast. And when Amy died, Anthony didn't handle it well. So Vivian and James took the boys in and began raising them as their own. But at some point, Vivian and James and Anthony got into an argument. And I'm very sorry about how vague this is, but the bottom line is that Anthony then went to the state. He made some accusations against his parents. And Charles and Darwin were removed from the Gray home and put into foster care.

What? They were eventually adopted by another family. What? Yeah. This was horrible for Vivian and James, especially Vivian. She wrote letters to the governor. She tried hiring an attorney. She wanted her grandsons back so badly.

She fell into a deep depression. She was so angry at Anthony for taking the children away that she vowed to never speak to him again. She didn't keep that vow, but, you know, you get the idea. Things were very rocky between Vivian and James and their adult son. Fast forward to April 26, 2007. A phone call came in to 911. It was from Jodi. She was crying. She told the dispatcher that she thought her dad had been shot. She said she was scared to go through the rest of the house because she couldn't find her mom. The dispatcher asked for the location of the home, and Jodi provided it. 8811.

Oh, oh, oh, biscuits. I'm not ready. Okay, 88. I don't know that you're going to be able to find it. 8811. Cincinnati Road, Sadieville, Kentucky. Okay. Okay.

Uh-huh. There are no pictures. Yeah. Okay. All right. Four beds, two baths, 2,200 square feet. So you're just going to have to picture super wooded, rural. You know, they've got like the big three-car garage thing that's detached from the house.

You know. Like a shop. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Red, white trim, which is like by law the colors you have to have in the country. Yep. Okay.

So Jodi was sobbing and she told the dispatcher, I got scared and left the house. And the dispatcher said, that's okay. And then Jodi said, I have a weapon. Should I go back? And the dispatcher said, that's up to you. If you feel safe going back, you can go back and the dispatcher said that's up to you if you feel safe going back you can go back what I know I know I mean Jody is clearly freaking out and like oh yeah I've got a weapon should I go back no okay no no no no no, no. No.

So, you know, the dispatcher's like, oh, yeah, you can if you want to. And Jodi said, I'm just scared that I'm scared to find my mom. The dispatcher asked her where her father was shot, and Jodi said, I don't know. I didn't get that close. Then Jodi wailed a little and said, Oh, God, the door was unlocked. That's not normal. Soon officers arrived on the scene, and it was a hell of a scene.

Vivian and James had not been minimalists. Their house was cluttered. There were stacks of books, stacks of magazines, stacks of blankets on chairs, boxes of stuff, a house plant in every corner. It was one of those homes where there's not a scrap of available space

on any flat surface. I hate it. Yeah. Drives me crazy. Yeah, not my thing. Kind of place you walk into and you're immediately stressed out. Yep. I hate it. Yeah. Drives me crazy. Yeah, not my thing. Kind of place you walk into and you're immediately stressed out. Yeah. And amidst all this chaos was, you know, a sort of odd crime scene.

James was lying face down in the living room and it looked like he'd been shot in the back of the head. And he had 480 bucks on him. And a pistol. Vivian was slumped over in a pool of blood next to a gun cabinet. The door to the gun cabinet was wide open. There was a key in the lock. It was immediately obvious that Vivian had been shot in the right hand and somewhere else. It wasn't clear where. It was later determined that she was probably crouched down with her hands over her.

Okay. Door was unlocked and there's weapons in the house and they didn't maybe necessarily defend themselves. So it's Anthony, right? Well, you are really jumping ahead. Okay.

The house showed no signs of a break-in no signs of a struggle front door was unlocked and uh there were three 100 bills outside the home they were just like lying on the ground kind of spaced out hansel and Gretel style. Trail of Benjamins. Detective Roger Pursley, who coincidentally is kind of bland and peaked at the 80s. That sounds rude. Parsley. You know, people get defensive about Parsley. And they're like, you know, you can add it to stuff.

You know when parsley used to come on every plate? Yeah, the 80s. It was terrible. Well, I mean, I don't remember eating in the 80s. I would have been, I maxed out at four. Bring it, you're 87. And we all know it. I think that thing lasted well into the 90s. They would sprinkle parsley around your plate.

And then you'd just have like a sprig of it like on the corner. I remember Applebee's. Notorious for a little parsley bunch on your plate. It was the only fresh thing they had in the place. Yeah, and it does nothing. Yeah. People are going to get upset. I know.

We got some real parsley apologists in our listeners. Yeah, they're like, I have a real spicy potato salad that I put parsley in. You ladies are talking about store-bought parsley. Just wait until you grow your own parsley and then you make some judgments on it. It'll light your palate up. That is exactly right. OD'd on parsley. What's that parsley? I don't know. I'd on parsley. Was that parsley?

I don't know. I have to check. So he took one look at this scene and he was like, this looks like a staged robbery. There was this weird trail of money. Guns still in the gun cabinet. Valuables everywhere. To be fair, I would say non-valuables were also everywhere. There was a stack of hefty plates just like out there.

Like paper plates? Yeah, hefty. You ever heard of hefty plates? I've heard of hefty in relation to trash bags. They make plates too? Well, they must, in relation to trash bags. They make plates, too? Well, they must have in 2007 because that's what I saw. Oh, I don't know how fresh these were. Clearly, whoever did this was someone that James and Vivian trusted enough to let them into their home.

And it was someone who only wanted them dead. Wasn't interested in the money, the hefty plates, the cash. Oh, Brandy's making faces. And everyone, she's wearing her glasses today, so she looks even smarter than usual. I mean, I just, what would Anthony's motivation be for murdering his parents? And not at least taking the 780 bucks there at the scene.

Well, if you're their only child. Oh, because you get the whole inheritance. Yeah. Duh. Fucking duh. Except they've already changed their will and everything goes to Jody because of that whole thing with the calling the police and, you know, reporting them to the state and getting the kids taken away. Well, first of all, you don't know that.

And I cannot believe how long it took you to get to this point. How many family annihilators have you covered, ma'am? Anyway. And he's going to be pissed when he finds out his parents changed their will. and he's gonna be pissed when he finds out his parents changed their will in the midst of all this chaos jody called anthony gray and she told him that his parents were dead he was like oh gee what what oh my oh my goodness he immediately drove out to his parents house where he'd just come from. Stop it, Bray. Sorry. Where investigators were already on the scene.

He had swag. He's like, I'm running low on gas because of all these trips I'm making back and forth. And right off the bat, his behavior seemed odd. He had a distinct lack of curiosity. Anthony didn't ask how his mother was or where she was or how his father died or what had happened. Didn't ask when it all happened. He was emotionless. But he did talk to some people.

And what he said was, you know, real strange. Yeah, what'd he say? A neighbor named Blaine Colson came over to console Anthony. Blaine Colson? Yeah, kind of cool name. It is a cool name. I mean, you're already kind of set up for success with Colson. Colson's kind of like, you're always starting out kind of cool and then you get the Blaine on top.

Yeah, it's a good name. So, you know, he comes over. He's like, hey, you know, I'm so sorry. Oh, my gosh. And Anthony said, oh, I'll never have to work again. Well, that's a weird fucking thing to say when your parents just died. Oh, wait, no, it's not. You murdered them.

But also, you know, if your parents were rich and now they're dead, then you get all the money. Then that's like the first thing you say, right? No. Teresa Coulson is another neighbor, and she kept telling Anthony, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And he told her, looks like I'll never have to work another day in my life I'll have to go get over to the store and find out who owes dad money and start collecting okay this guy's terrible at murder you should make a handbook

page one the reaction oh no I am so sad Page one. The reaction. Oh, no. Oh, no. I am so sad. You've got to wait at least a week to be like, so is there insurance money? Who gets the inheritance here, folks? Wait, me?

The only child? The heir to the Kentucky throne? To the people who were there that day, Anthony seemed really cold. In fact, one family friend later said, I have more sympathy for a dead dog than what he seemed to. Which I don't get that because when my dog died, I was not the same. This guy's not a dog person. He's a cat person. I guarantee you.

But, you know, other people cared. For example, a family friend named Ike Gabbard arrived at the scene at the same time that the coroner and investigators were there. And someone asked him if he wanted to help clean up. So Ike got a pair of gloves and started cleaning up blood. And he left a while later because, you know, so many people were there. He wanted to help clean up. So I got a pair of gloves and started cleaning up blood. And he left a while later because, you know, so many people were there. Some people had gloves. Some people didn't, you know.

What? Clean up, clean up. Everybody do their share. Clean up, clean up. And that's a song? I think that is. I mean, I've heard that before. Eventually, James and Vivian's bodies were removed from the home and the home was turned over to Anthony Gray.

This all happened the same day. No. It's important to move very quickly, Brandy. I mean, should we like process that crime scene? Oh, it was processed real quick. I mean, when the family friend can come in and wipe up blood, I'd say that's a... Yeah. Okay, I have concerns about the investigation at this point. Rude.

Please don't question the police. Anthony and his girlfriend Rosa started cleaning up the place. And after they'd cleaned up a bit, they drove back home to get some clothes. And then they came back to the house because they were planning on sleeping there. But when they arrived at like... Sorry. The house his parents were just murdered in? Yeah.

You know what seems like a fun place to sleep? The place where your parents were just murdered? Okay. Here's the only way that that makes sense. You know what seems like a fun place to sleep? The place where your parents were just murdered? Okay, here's the only way that that makes sense. Was he homeless prior to this? I don't believe so. No! What the fuck are you doing, Anthony?

I don't know how nice this place was, but I mean, he was a mechanic. Okay, was someone just murdered in there? Was someone just murdered in this house? In, in fact, two people were just murdered. Killer has not been caught. What the fuck? So they arrived at like 1.30 in the morning, but there was a big do not enter sign on the front door. So Rosa said, hey, you know, that's from the law. We better not go in.

And Anthony was like, hmm, but, you know, they turned the house over to me. But now there's this sign. I'll just call 911 and double check. So he called 911 and he was like, hey, you know, I was planning to stay here for the night. Is it OK if I go in? And the dispatcher called the detective and the detective was like, hell no, it's a crime scene. It's a fucking crime scene, Anthony. You just murdered your parents in there!

They did not say that Brandy! They may have wanted to. Barnabas get your head out of your ass! And the dispatcher was like you can't go in it's a crime scene. And Anthony was like well okay

well I didn't know. I mean I was told it was passed over to me so we cleaned it up and everything. Oh, fuck. Anyway, yada, yada, yada. That night, Rosa and Anthony slept in Anthony's parents' bed. What? What? Yeah.

Odd move. Odd move. Yeah. Odd move. Odd move. Yeah. Yep. Sure is. I don't think I have to tell you that everyone was giving Anthony the side eye. Jodi was especially worried. She said that two weeks before James and Vivian were murdered, they sat

down with her and talked about their wills. She said that they told her that they wanted her to be the executor of their estate and that they wanted everything to go to their grandsons, Charles and Darwin. Okay. Robert Jones, Vivian's brother, had a somewhat similar story. He said that a few weeks before the murders, Vivian told him that she was upset with Anthony. She said that she and James had changed their wills. Anthony wouldn't get anything. It would all go to the grandchildren. So at some point, not long after the murders, Jodi called up the detectives. She told them about the wills and she mentioned the safe that the Grays kept in the basement.

She was pretty sure that they kept the wills in that basement safe. And Detective Parsley was like, there's a basement in that house? For the record. Jodi thinks it's ridiculous that the investigators didn't realize that the house had a basement. The basement had windows. How could they not have seen that from the outside of the house? But at this point, I would like to jump in and defend these detectives. Okay.

Because those windows were covered in ivy and the entrance to the basement was ridiculous. Are you going to elaborate on how ridiculous the entrance was? Oh, you... I'm going to tell you more than you want to know. Okay. Because we are about to pause for a brief history lesson on basements. Okay.

For a long time in a lot of homes, especially if they were made in like the 50s, you could only access the basement from the garage. Then in like the 70s and a little later, people started retrofitting their homes with basement entrances in their living rooms. But that's kind of an awkward thing to retrofit. So you end up with like a three-sided rectangle of half walls and a set of stairs going down to the basement. Are you picturing this?

Okay. Yeah. You know I overthought this. I'm like, people aren't going to get it. All right. So that's sort of what the Grays had. They had those three little half walls, but they had a covering over it. What kind of covering?

Well, it's hard to tell because there was a bunch of stuff on it. So it looked like a table to me. Oh, yeah. And oh, what's this? There's a whole other level to this house. A fourth little half wall, which was basically a secret door. Did it swing? I don't know

if it swung. What an excellent question. I would have to go back and re-watch this episode. Which I refuse to do. That's a good question. I don't know how you would ever know that that was the entrance to a basement unless someone

told you. But anyway, investigators the entrance to a basement unless someone told you. But anyway, investigators went down to the basement. Keep in mind, Anthony had already been living in this place for a while. And they found that that safe was gone. Of course it was. Jody figured that Anthony got into the safe, read the wills, didn't like what they said, and burned them. Yeah. And now he was going to inherit an estate worth about $750,000.

Wow. Wow, that's quite a bit of money. Yeah, he's not going to have to work again. Right? Am I right? I think he's still going to have to work, Anthony. Yeah, you're going to have to work again. Yeah. Sorry, Anthony.

But the local detectives were having none of it they were sure anthony gray was their guy and shit was really adding up they placed james and vivian's time of death somewhere in the evening of tuesday april 24th about two days before the their bodies were discovered. That's Lisa's birthday. Everyone, are you taking note? All right. All right. Okay.

Very good. Very good. You can put that in your Tim Pound's Fun Fact journal because Lisa is Tim Pound's wife. But you would have to be very careful about how you categorize it. So it would have to be Fun Fact, Lisa is Tim's wife, But you would have to be very careful about how you categorize it. So it would have to be, fun fact, Lisa is Tim's wife. And then, like, sub fact. Yeah, her birthday is April 24th. Yeah.

Sub, sub fact, James and Vivian died that day. Yeah. Boy, that was rough. Don't write that. So, you know, they're pretty sure they know when they were murdered. And wouldn so you know they're pretty sure they know when they were murdered and uh

wouldn't you know it Anthony had like no alibi of course he fucking didn't because he was at the house murdering his parents

what if that was his alibi it couldn't be me I was here killing my parents oh wait did you guys accuse me of being at Sonic? Oh, damn it.

They talked to Rosa, Anthony's now ex-girlfriend, and she told them that that day she and Anthony got into an argument. And she went to bed, and he, she assumes, left the house. Rosa's daughter, Brittany, backed up that story. She saw her mom and Anthony get into an argument. She saw her mom go back into the house. Rosa's daughter, Brittany, backed up that story. She saw her mom and Anthony get into an argument. She saw her mom go back into the bedroom. And then she saw Anthony get into his black

Toyota Supra and leave. Oh, he has a Supra? It was an 89. You impressed? No. Were you faking being impressed? Supras are like little sports cars, though. So you faking being impressed? No, supers are like little sports cars, so.

So you are impressed. No. You just don't want to be impressed. Isn't it 2007 and he's driving an 89? Yeah, it didn't look good. So no, I'm not impressed. Brittany didn't know what time he got home. Brittany didn't know what time he got home.

Investigators, of course, interviewed Anthony quite a few times and didn't get a ton out of him. But their interview on October 20, 2007, was different. Vivian and James had been dead for six months. And now they had a mountain of evidence against Anthony. They had eyewitnesses. They had blood spatter evidence on his work uniform. They had surveillance footage of his vehicle that had been taken the night of the murders near his parents' house. But Anthony kept denying it.

He hadn't done it. He hadn't killed his parents. So the detectives pulled out photos of his parents' dead bodies. Anthony asked them to put the photos away. And instead, they taped them to the wall right in front of him. Oh, that's a move. Sure is. Everyone, Brandi has put her hood up. I'm cold. Are you really? Yes. I don't know that I've ever seen you put your hood up inside. I'm cold. She'll eat my little nose. My little nose is cold.

You look like a cute little cold nerd. Thanks. In the midst of all this, Detective Pursley's cell phone rang. He said, oh, it's the judge. He took the call. He came back. And he told Anthony, the judge says that if you don't confess to this, that we're going to go for the death penalty. Shit.

Do you think it was really the judge? Anthony freaked out. He did? Yeah, they just said they were going to kill him. That's a fucking move. That was probably AT&T calling to see if he was happy with his cell service. Also, I'm a judge who's picking up extra money by working on this. I know. It's Frank TNT. While I have you, I would like to suggest you a whole living and then we go for the death penalty.

But you know, the detectives got buddy-buddy with him. Let me help you avoid the death penalty. You know, sometimes in times of trauma, you black out. You don't remember what happened, but you did it. So then the detectives left the room. They were gone for about 30 minutes. And when they came back, they had an official document from the Kentucky State Police Lab. It stated that James and Vivian's DNA had been found inside Anthony's unimpressive car.

That doesn't mean anything. They're his fucking parents. It also stated that gunshot residue had been found inside Anthony's car. Again, I don't think that's that impressive. The detectives hammered away at Anthony with all their evidence. DNA in the car, blood spatter on his uniform, eyewitnesses, video of his car near the scene, gunshot residue in his vehicle.

He had done this. He had killed his parents. Did he not kill his parents? Anthony told the detectives, I must be crazy. By this point, the detectives had been interrogating Anthony for five and a half hours. And they hadn't recorded any of it. No video, no audio. Oh, no.

But now they turned the camera on. Of course they did. And Anthony confessed. It was kind of a fuzzy confession. It was clear he didn't remember a whole lot. But here's the gist of what he said. He said that on Tuesday, April 24th, he spent a lot of the day with Rosa. He got into an argument. He got into his car and drove to his parents' house, which was about an hour away.

And he arrived around 9, 9.30 p.m. He wasn't 100 percent sure. And he went into the house and sat on the couch and talked with his dad. And, you know, his dad brought a gun into the room and then it was in Anthony's hand all of a sudden. He's not sure why he had it, but he just did. And then he and his mom and dad got into a fight. Not totally sure what they fought about. And his dad got loud and violent.

And Anthony, he must have blacked out. And maybe his dad punched him yeah he probably punched him and afterward Anthony stood up and shot his dad and then he shot his mom and he shot his dad again and then he ran out the door it was like a dream Brandy or information that had been fed to him through the previous five hours of interrogation. You've had him as guilty for a minute one of this story. Yes, I'm singing a different tune these days. Did Jody fucking kill them and try and make it look like Anthony did it? I'm going to need you to keep your pants on.

I don't want to wear them anymore. It's really funny that you're so cold you've got your hood up, but you're like, no, I don't want to wear pants. I don't want to wear them anymore. It's really funny that you're so cold you've got your hood up, but you're like, no, I don't want to wear pants. I don't want to wear any pants. Anthony said he loved his mom and dad. He didn't know why he did it. Because he didn't do it. He said, I still don't believe I done it. But, you know, with the evidence, I must have.

Oh, no. evidence, I must have. Oh, no. Oh, no. I fear I may have been an asshole to Anthony at the beginning of this case. And now I have to back it up. I'm concerned that my accusations may have been unfounded. You know, this is my favorite kind of case. Or no, I'm sorry, this is my dad's have been unfounded. You know, this is my favorite kind of case.

Or no, I'm sorry, this is my dad's favorite kind of case. My dad loves it when you get tricked and you say a bunch of nasty stuff

about somebody and then you have to be like, uh-oh, whoops, whoops. Oh boy. Oh boy. By the way, everything that the detectives

said they had on him, the surveillance footage, It's all fake. Yeah, where are the fucking ey said they had on him, the surveillance footage. It's all fake. The eyewitnesses. The DNA. The gunshot residue. The blood spatter. It was all made up.

Oh, no. The document from the crime lab. Fake. The call from the judge saying he'd get the death penalty. Fake. Yeah, I called that one. Okay, well. Everybody, Brandi got one!

But the confession, that had been real. No. Yes, yes. Real coerced. I just spat on my computer. Oh, no. Anthony, I take it all back.

Terribly sorry, Anthony. Sorry. Now I'm looking at Jodi. What if she's perfectly innocent, huh? Then you're going to be a double asshole. No. I only have one ass. But it's twice as big as a normal asshole. No. I only have one asshole. But it's twice as big as a normal

asshole. How dare you! It's just your standard asshole. Thank you very much. I think we're going to need to see pictures soon, for sure. So Anthony's public defender, Rodney Barnes, was like, nope, nope, nope, nope. This is clearly a coerced confession, and it's super sketchy that you guys didn't record it for five and a half hours of the interrogation. Hmm, I wonder what that was about.

But nonetheless, they were moving toward a trial, and death penalty was actually on the table. Yikes. Okay, so I hate to do this. I have to pause and do like an apology slash explanation. The show I watched, it had a ton of court footage. Beautiful court footage. You would have loved it. But the title of this show, which I will reveal to you now, was Kentucky Murder Mystery, colon, The Trials of Anthony Gray.

Multiple trials. So it is a double doozy. Maybe double. Might be more. Triple doozy? Is it a triple doozy? So here's the deal. They didn't tell you which trial the footage comes from, which if you're just a normal viewer, that's fine.

Yeah, nobody gives a shit. But if you're part of a wonderful podcast. Some say award winning. Some do. It's just us. They're all wrong. It's just us and nobody's given us an award yet. But I'm watching this thing and I'm like, no big deal.

I'm going to take a bunch of notes. Then I'm going to hop over and read my newspaper articles. I'm going to match them up. I'm going to figure out what happened, what trial. Well, you know what happened? Wait, are you okay? What happened to your bun, hon? My hood was putting too much strain on my bun.

Everybody, Brandi has a real tall bun. I do. I had a real tall bun going on today. Adds about four inches to her hair. Looks good. And my hood does not allow for that much space. And so the hood was just pulling back

on the bun and I felt like my brain was being compromised by that. So that's why I thought Anthony was guilty. So, you know, anyway, HellsBells, Newspapers.com did me dirty on this one they did not provide daily coverage of these trials so here's the thing it's probably one of those things where like they do one trial and then take two electric boogaloos the same as the second one so i first

or second verse same as first yeah first verse same as the first. Yeah. First verse, same as the first. Yeah, it made sense. Yeah, uh-huh. It's because I had the hood with the brain issue. Mm-hmm. So what I'm telling you is we've got all the facts here. The order might be a little jumbled. Oh, okay. All right, anyway.

All right, all right. So the defense began building its case, and one of the first things they noticed was that the investigators had zeroed in on Anthony Gray right from the start. They hadn't looked at any other suspects, Brandy. That is interesting. How could someone do such a thing? But maybe they should have looked at other suspects. But maybe they should have looked at other suspects.

Because James owned that flea market and it was an all-cash business and he engaged in some sketchy shit. What kind of sketchy shit? Porn. Poof. He paid cash for porn and people were constantly telling him, James, you can get it for free. It's free all over the internet. He's like, nope, nope, I'm an honest man. I pay for my porn.

No, for example, one of the guys that James dealt with was a guy named Peter Hafer. Okay. Peter Hafer is the scariest dude on earth. He's a convicted felon. Long ass rap. She specializes in stealing shit. And celebrity alert! He actually had a viral moment a few years ago.

What? Well, when Peter was in court this one time, standing up in front of the judge's bench with his defense attorney right next to him, Peter all of a sudden hauled off and punched his own attorney in the fucking throat! Oh my gosh! Have you ever seen anyone get punched in the throat? They fall down! Oh, do they fall! I mean, it is like

BAM! So that dude, I mean, I'm just hit the ground. He's in his little suit. He probably pooped himself. You think he pooped himself? You would have to.

You would not believe. I mean, it's like you get punched in the throat and you lose control of everything. That guy just dropped. It's true. He didn't pursue charges against guys. If someone punches me in the throat, they're going to hear from the law. At least me buying you new pants. Or helping me scoop out what's in my trousers.

So, yeah, the dude fell to the ground. Peter kept kicking him and hitting him. Anyway, Peter got six months for that, which I think seems kind of light. It does seem light. Did a bailiff intervene? Well, eventually. But, I mean, Brandi, I don't know if you've gotten the picture, but you punched someone in the throat. It's game over.

I did get the picture. I don't care if you've got the fastest bailiff in the West. I mean, they can't come over that fast. And, I mean, it was well-placed, too. I mean, it wasn't like, oops, cut your chin. I don't think anybody thinks to punch in the throat. Peter did. Huh.

Peter knew a thing or two about a thing or two. This was not his first time punching somebody in the throat. Thanks. So that's just a little taste of Peter. That's not what it is. That's not. What is the original slogan for Peter? Peter, Peter, Peter. I wrote that this morning. Didn't occur to me until I said it out loud

just now that that's really inappropriate okay but where he ties into this story is five months before the murders did you like your little taste of Peter kids come on down. Give yourself a little taste of Peter.

Stop it. Mom, what podcast are you listening to? So, five months before the murders, Peter Hafer robbed Dryden Sporting Goods and Pawn. Here's how he did it. I hate to say I'm a little impressed, but I'm just going to tell you how he did it, and you decide how you feel about it. He went there earlier in the day and saw where the guns were all kept. Okay, they're kind of in this corner. And the walls of this place were made of cinder blocks.

So he counted where the guns were in that location, like, you know, 20. Yeah. Okay. You understand counting. He did like a grid system. Yeah. Then he came back at midnight. B-17.

Then he came back at midnight and he went to the exterior wall with a sledgehammer and he knocked a giant hole in the wall at that exact location and went in and stole like 76 guns. Yeah. I mean, not bad. Pretty good plan. Yeah, because I mean, I assume the front, you know, obviously easier to get into, but I assume it's on a main road. I'm not familiar with Sadieville, Kentucky. You're missing out

James, who was known to sell just about anything bought a bunch of these stolen guns Oh shit Yeah, it was really just a great business opportunity because, you know, private citizens can sell guns and not really keep a record of the transaction

It's very cool America's a beautiful place. Come visit, won't you? So Peter and James knew each other. And it seems that at some point Peter hatched a plan to rob James. That story comes from a guy named Jason Linville. He used to do odd jobs for the Grays. And he's also Peter's brother-in-law.

do odd jobs for the Grays, and he's also Peter's brother-in-law. And at some point in this investigation, Jason came forward and said that Peter had tried to get him involved in robbing the Grays. And, I mean, it kind of made sense to rob James. James was the kind of guy who would walk around with, like, five grand in his pocket. Next day, he's got ten grand in his pocket. Next day, he's got a box of diamonds. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Wow. A guy named Harry Hoover came forward. Okay, this actually happened in 2017, but, you know, we can only bounce around so much. So, you know, just go with it. He tracked down Anthony's defense attorney and said that he had been locked up at the Scott County Detention Center with Peter and that Peter had told him a bunch of stuff through the food flap in the jail. Oh. And so the investigator for the defense went and interviewed Harry.

The interview went down in the parking lot of a local restaurant. Which restaurant? Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Dying to know. Kills me to tell you. I have no idea.

Oh. It's very upsetting to me. That is very upsetting. Here's what we do know. Harry said that it started with Peter making little hints about the crime. Anytime the news would come on and be about Anthony Gray, he would say that boy ain't guilty. And finally, one day he told the whole story. Peter said he knocked on the front door of the gray home and James answered it. And Vivian was in the kitchen doing dishes. And Peter just hung out for 10 or 15 minutes to make James comfortable. And he said, hey, let me see that. Referring to a gun that James had and james handed it to him and peter just took it and shot him what vivian screamed and threw her hands in the air and peter shot her too he said i think i blowed her three fingers off harry said that p Peter told him that his whole goal was to rob the Greys.

He wanted to get into their basement safe. He brought a small plasma cutter with him to do the job. What's a plasma cutter? Like a, I think it's like a. Oh, yeah. Okay. Very good. All right.

A bunch of bees. Yeah. I All right. A bunch of bees. Yeah. I understand. A swarm of bees. But when he went down to the basement, all he saw was the indentation from where the safe used to be. It was already gone. The safe was gone. He'd like to shit.

He'd like to shit? He'd like to shit? He'd like to shit? Yeah. Have you ever heard that saying? No! Okay, that's one of those things. I was like, I bet you so many people haven't heard this before. It's like when you're so surprised.

He'd like to shit. I'd like to shit. There was no safe. I'd like to shit. I don't understand that at all here I done killed two people and no safe I liked shit good lord

you've got a lot to learn lady I guess stick with me kid a guy named Ray Yarnall wait pause what did you think of that story I think it's bullshit Stick with me, kid. A guy named Ray Yarno. Wait. Pause. What did you think of that story? I think it's bullshit.

Really? Yeah. Is that what you think really happened? You didn't believe the food flap? No. Is that what you think really happened? I don't know. I was going to say what's the motivation, but the motivation was the safe, and then the safe wasn't there, and he'd like to shit.

Yeah, he'd like to shit. Yeah, he'd like to shit. What more do you need to hear? He'd like to shit. All right. I don't know. It just doesn't. Yeah. All right.

A guy named Ray Yarnall also came forward. He was a convicted felon and he had been childhood friends with Peter. They spent time together in jail. Why are you making that face? Peter connected to everybody. What do you mean connected to everybody? It's a small town. Okay.

All right. I mean, and it's like, we've got like four people here. How many people are you? Somebody's like a childhood friend. Somebody's his brother. You're allowed to have a sibling and a childhood friend. You know what your problem is? At the beginning of this story, you were just taking it in.

I was. Helpline and sinker. And now you're not even taking in basic stuff. You're like, that's not a couch. I would not like to shit. I've never even heard of shit. Ray said that one time they were talking about

the shit they'd gotten away with. Not how they liked to shit, but the shit they'd gotten away with. And Peter told him that someone was probably going to get a life sentence for what he'd done. Did he really do it? I don't know. That was my sexy voice.

Sorry to turn you on again. Sorry, Brandy. It's tough because you're expected to be professional now. Yeah. After I've gotten you all worked up into a frenzy. I've gotten you all worked up into a frenzy. So the defense, I mean, thought they had figured out who committed the crime. But none of this evidence was allowed to be presented at trial.

Oh, because it was all hearsay? There was just no evidence allowed about – well, I mean it wasn't really all hearsay because the stolen guns were found at the Gray's property. I mean there was really no – kind of no doubt that these two were connected. Law enforcement knew they had been connected. But just – Shouldn't that testimony have been allowed? Oh, is this why he gets a second try? All right.

I'm catching up. She's a quick one. I put it together. I got it. I got it together. Yeah, hang a handhold up here. I got it, I got it. The defense also tried to get the coerced confession thrown out, but that didn't work either. The judge allowed it in. In the meantime, the prosecution had found some of Anthony's ex-girlfriends,

who said that at one time or another, he had talked about wanting to kill his parents. Okay. The defense tried to get that thrown out because those statements were made in, like, 2001, and the murders happened in 2007, but the judge let it all in. As Anthony Gray's trial neared, the prosecution took the death penalty off the table, and in January of 2012, he went on trial for the murder of his parents. So the prosecution presented their case, which included Anthony's confession, the fact that he had this unaccounted for chunk of time on the night of the murders, and at one point, Cynthia

Neal, one of Anthony's ex-girlfriends, testified that Anthony didn't like his parents. He said that they were mean to him as a child and that they were going to be mean to his boys. So he gave up custody to keep his parents from seeing the grandchildren. Tammy Kidd, another ex-girlfriend, testified that in 2001 she was cooking supper and he was on the couch and he said he'd like to kill his parents. And she said, are you serious? And he said, yes. He said he'd get a gun and that she'd be the driver and he'd go shoot them, get back in the car, and she would be his alibi. Detective Persley testified about the investigation and anthony's odd behavior that day and on cross-examination the defense caught him talking about how yeah you know he and detective

dave willis had made up a fake lab report to trick anthony uh police work coroner john gobel testified that oops fudge stripes they had in fact turned the crime scene over to anthony gray as soon as the bodies were removed yeah the defense of course made the case that the crime scene had been woefully contaminated they had ike gabard a friend of the grays talk about showing up at the crime scene with the coroner and investigators there and being asked if he wanted to clean up. You know, so he did. One of the defense's more interesting arguments, in my opinion, was that Vivian and James hadn't been killed on Tuesday evening. Oh.

They said the only reason the police were dead set on Tuesday being the day of their death was that that was the only time period where Anthony Gray had no alibi. Oh, shit. Mm-hmm. And in reality, there were eyewitnesses who'd seen the Grays alive on Wednesday. Oh, fuck. Joy Jump, who has the cutest name I've ever heard. Joy Jump? Yeah.

Oh. She's an antique dealer. Of course she is. And she and Jim would do deals together, and the defense showed footage of Joy's car going down the road that Wednesday. And Joy told the jury that as she drove by the Gray house, she saw Vivian Gray standing outside. the jury that as she drove by the Gray house, she saw Vivian Gray standing outside. Another witness, Teresa Parrish, said she saw James on Wednesday out in his yard, and she knew that because she saw the preacher across the street mowing his yard. Cut to Michael Campbell, the former church pastor of the Stonewall Baptist Church, and he testified that on Wednesdays, he would either go a visiting

or he'd mow the lawn. And on that Wednesday, he was there at the church from about 3.30 to 6.30, mowing the grass. And he said that while he was mowing, he heard three gunshots. But it didn't bother him because, you know, it's rural Kentucky. He just figured somebody's target practicing. But in retrospect, the shots went like this. Bam, bam, bam.

At that point in time when the minister heard the shots, Anthony had been at work, working on a truck, in front of the owner of the company, a cell phone expert for the defense, testified that Anthony could not have killed his parents on Wednesday because cell phones go ping, cell towers go pong, and we know your location all the day long, and Anthony was at work. That's, you know, the whole... Yeah.

Feeling real bad about all that shit I said about Anthony in the beginning. Well, you are a beach. And Anthony Gray testified in his own defense. He said that his ex-girlfriends were not lying. He had talked about wanting to kill his parents. Oh, that's good. I mean, I think it's good to just be like yeah you know what they're right i did say that but i was like who hasn't said uh fucking hate my parents well but i mean

have you ever said i want to kill my parents and someone says are you serious and you're like just yesterday i can't sleep not now i've never planned a murder of my parents. I always think it's kind of convenient in these stories when it's like the prosecutor is like, and did you ask if they were serious? And they always it's always part of the story. I asked, are you serious? And I think that's just because the defense is obviously going to be like, well, they were joking. Yeah. But how often do people really ask, are you serious? That's not rhetorical.

I need – I've never done a study on this. I'm sorry. The glasses really threw me. I assumed you were a scientist. The lab coat is just part of the look. She's got the look. She's got the look. So yeah, he's like, they aren't lying.

I had vented about my parents. But it was all talk. He also talked about that confession. He said that the detectives had had him rehearse the false confession until he got it how they liked it. I believe that 100%. Hell yes. We see that happen all the time. Yeah, and they made up all kinds of bullshit.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he was totally going to get to go to WrestleMania afterward. Oh, that was dark. Brandon? Brendan. Brendan.

Sorry. Poor Brendan Dassey. Hey, you know, with my luck with names, you're lucky I didn't call him Gary. You were very close. You were in the same neighborhood. I sure was. Yeah, I feel like if people don't get any lessons from this podcast, just take this one. The police can lie to you.

All right, anyway. Okay. He said that the first recording didn't go right. He didn't remember all the stuff he was supposed to say. So they started again. Ultimately, the jury of 10 women and two men deliberated for about 10 hours. And they couldn't agree on a decision. It was a hung jury.

Mistrial. That's what the judge said. He said it real fast because he wanted people to know, I know what happens next. I know what happens now. I went to law school. Okay. I'm a judge. Yeah, so he declared a mistrial.

And later that year, Anthony Gray's second trial got underway. And, you know, we're just assuming it's take two electric boogaloo, everyone in their same seats not changing a damn thing. Would you say first verse, same as the first, same as the first. First is also the same as the first. Yeah, same as the first. same as the first. Second first, First is also the same

as the first. Yeah, same as the first. Once again, the defense couldn't introduce shit about Peter Hafer. Oh,

this is how he's going to get the third trial. This trial! This is how he gets the third trial. He's going to get convicted on this one

and then they're going to appeal and be like, well, we didn't get to say any of this stuff at all. The appeals court's going to be like, wow, you and then they're going to appeal and be like, well, we didn't get to say any of this stuff at all. The appeals court's going to be like, wow, you really should have been able to say that stuff. And then they're going to be like, you need a new trial.

And so then they get a third trial. You know what? What? I feel like sometimes I know what it is like to be your TV. Like sometimes I tell these stories, and I'm like, this is her in front of Daylight. Hold on, Chief Morrison. I know what's happening here. I know 100%.

It is everything we watch. And then, you know what? When I'm right, I make David fist bump me. And what does he get to do when you're wrong? Nothing. Throat punch. Throat punch me? I don't know that I've ever seen a throat punch before.

I can tell you were very affected by the throat punch. I couldn't believe it. I've never seen. I mean, he just dropped like a sack of potatoes. Boom! Also, it's his own attorney. There was no sound provided, and I would really have loved to know, like, what was the discussion. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. The bailiffs did look alarmed. But I mean... Anyway. Anyway.

Anyway. You know, so they can't introduce shit about Peter, Peter Hafer, which, according to Brandy, is going to be the cause for an appeal and blah, blah, blah. This time, the jury deliberated for 11 hours and they found him guilty. Anthony Gray got 45 years. Holy shit. guilty. Anthony Gray got 45 years, 20 years per victim, and five years for tampering with evidence because, you know, he'd thrown the murder weapon out of his car as he drove away from the scene. But Anthony maintained his innocence. And in February of 2013, his defense team began the lengthy appeals process. Oh my God, everyone, she looks so smug. I could just punch her in the throat. And finally, in 2019.

Oh! Yeah, we're skipping the boring stuff. The Kentucky Supreme Court threw out Anthony Gray's conviction. The state Supreme Court agreed with the defense. They said that Anthony's confession had not been given voluntarily and that the trial court should have allowed the defense to raise the possibility that Peter did this. She looks like she's about to bust. Do you want to give me a fist bump?

So Anthony was granted a new trial. It was scheduled. If only someone could have predicted that. Oh, yeah, that's the problem is there aren't enough predictions on this podcast. So he got a new trial. It was scheduled for the fall of 2021. That's now. Uh-huh. It was scheduled for the fall of 2021. That's now. It sure is.

This may be the freshest story we've ever told. What? What? Continue. What, you got a prediction? You want to fist bump over something? Did the prosecution decide not to try him again and drop the charges? Is that your prediction?

Yeah. You going to lock it in? I'm locking it in. That's my final answer. Okay. So Anthony wasn't set free as he awaited trial. His bond was way too high. In the meantime, Peter got out of prison, so that's neat.

Hopefully he hasn't punched anyone else in the throat. Yeah. So the trial just wrapped up. And it obviously wasn't covered by the documentary, so I'm just going off of really good local reporting. First off, since a few of the witnesses have passed away, they played a lot of recordings of previous trials for the jury. A guy named Eric Frazier testified for the prosecution. A guy named Eric Frazier testified for the prosecution. Eric had been in the Montgomery County Detention Center when Anthony Gray was arrested for domestic violence in the summer of 2007.

And he said that he and a few other prisoners were sitting around a table when Anthony told them about murdering his parents. Really? Eric also said that Anthony talked about wanting to kill his girlfriend rosa and her children a woman named betty white yes that betty white from kentucky was like yeah i met up with anthony at an abandoned gas station and he started talking about rosa and said i should have killed that bitch a long time ago. She also said that she'd been hanging out with Vivian shortly before the murders, and Vivian was cussing and ranting because Anthony had just been over at the house and they'd gotten into it. So I imagine the prosecution's case wasn't too awfully different from the first two trials, but it was pretty interesting that unlike in the previous trials, they did not call coroner John Goebel.

And that's probably because in the spring of 2021, he was indicted on federal charges of conspiracy to commit theft. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it seems that perhaps from 2014 to 2018, he stole a bunch of weapons and ammunition from the Kentucky State Police. Oh, my gosh. They also didn't call detectives Dave Willis or Roger Pursley because, you know, they'd had enough of that in the 90s from Applebee's. No, because that coerced confession was pretty embarrassing. Yeah. No need to bring that up. Yeah.

But, you know, the prosecution claimed that they had a new confession from Anthony Gray. They said that they had a jailhouse phone call between Anthony and Jody. And they claimed that in that phone call, Anthony confessed to the murders. They played that six-minute phone call between Anthony and Jody, but they didn't play it out loud. between Anthony and Jodi, but they didn't play it out loud. They just gave the jury headphones so no one else in the courtroom could hear it, which drives me fucking bananas. Yeah.

So I'm going to jump ahead because in closing statements, the prosecutor quoted from that phone call, but I don't think he gives us enough context to really – I'm just going to read you the quote. Let me hear it. Let me hear it. I don't want to be responsible for another death not by something i did you know i did it what i don't yeah i don't think that's i need to know more i think it's really weird that they didn't just play the whole thing yeah it's pretty vague

who I think it's really weird that they didn't just play the whole thing. Yeah, it's pretty vague. Mm-hmm. Who? Did Anthony kill his parents? I don't know. Did he do it? I don't know, Brandy. You seem so sure, so confident. I'm not. I'm not sure at all anymore.

I don't even know who I am. What day is it? Where am I? You're the luckiest woman on earth because you're staring directly at me. The prosecution's closing statements I thought were really powerful. Prosecutor Keith Ardley

who he did this with his mask below his nose. Like a big floppy dump. Might as dick hanging out of his pants. Might as well have. Yeah. A little taste of Peter for the jury. He asked the jury to think about what Vivian went through that day.

James at least was caught by surprise, but she had to watch her own son execute the man she loved. Then she ran to the gun cabinet, having to decide to shoot her own child to protect herself. When she didn't have time to get a gun, she crouched down and Anthony Gray walked up and boom, threw her hand and threw her head and out the other hand. This time, the defense did get to present the evidence against Peter, but the prosecution was able to point out that, you know, if Peter had gone there to rob the Grays, he'd done a piss poor job. There was so much left in the house. Guns, cash, valuables.

Plus, there were no signs that the house had really been searched, although, I mean, it was a pretty messy house. Yeah. no signs that the house had really been searched although i mean it was a pretty messy house so yeah the defense also pointed out that blaine colson owner of a very cool name could also have been a suspect blaine colson did not murder them he'd been the caretaker of the gray property for many years and he'd offered to help clean up the crime scene but i mean didn't everyone i don't think yeah everybody was in there cleaning it up this time the jury only deliberated for two hours and found him guilty they sure did and they gave him a harsher sentence what do you get 20 for the murder of his father 30 for the murder of his mother, 30 for the murder of his mother, and 5 for tampering with evidence. Wow.

Afterward, public defender Rodney Barnes took to Twitter to comment on the verdict. Here's what he said. All the hopes of justice for an innocent man and his defense team working tirelessly for almost 14 years, man and his defense team working tirelessly for almost 14 years, shattered by a group of 12 stupid, hateful people, make me want to walk away from this work and never try another case again. So sick of being heartbroken. Hashtag public defense. Hashtag juries suck.

Oh, shit. And that's the story of the three trials of Anthony Gray. Do you think he did it? Okay, so here's the thing. Okay, so just watching that documentary, I was like, oh, well, he didn't do it at all. I was horrified. But then reading some of the coverage from this most recent trial, and again, like I got what I could but it wasn't like you know a whole big thing I was kind of like this wasn't quite the slam dunk that I thought it was gonna be um partly because yeah I just come back to that story about so Peter did this for the money

yeah but he didn't really take it take Take anything. Here's the thing. I think Anthony might have. I think it's possible. But they don't have enough on him. They don't have enough on him. Yeah. And that's their fault. Well, yeah.

They turned the crime scene over to him. They horribly mishandled the investigation they had random people coming in like clean up yeah oh my gosh no it was a mess who and the coerced confession yeah the coerced confession is terrible. It's the coerced. It is. It's the coerced. What do you think? You think he did it?

I don't know. I don't know if he did it. I was so sure at the beginning and now I'm not sure anymore. I was also on a wild ride with this. You were? Oh, my God. Because this ID show. Okay.

So, you know, it's like an hour and a half. And, like, the first half, it's all about the evidence that Anthony did it. Yeah. And I was pissed. Because I'd looked into it enough to know that there were, you know, going to be three trials and he was found guilty, blah, blah, blah. But then watching that first half, I was like, well, of course he did it. Why am I even watching this stupid thing? Because you know I hate that shit when it's like super fucking obvious.

But then, you know, all of a sudden it's just a dream and they've got a document from the state crime lab that they just typed up themselves. Yeah, I hope. Woo. You want to talk about some newlyweds?

You and your themes. All right. Let's hear it. Shout outs to an article on truecrimedaily.com that had no byline. I don't like that they do that. Written by ghosts. I was going to talk shit on the article, but it was good. So I'm not.

I don't like it was written like in the print, like in a weird tense. I didn't care for it. What tense was it? Well in a weird tense. I didn't care for it. What tense was it? Well, like present tense. Yeah, that is a little unusual. Yeah, it's unusual. It's a little jarring, but very good information. Okay.

So, sorry. Why did I even bring that up? Why am I shitting on my source? You can't help yourself. I do it all the time. That was help yourself. I do it all the time. That was so rude. I do it all the time. But then again, I am rude.

Also to Fatim Hemraj for an article on Medium. Okay. Cody Johnson was on top of the world. Is she about to be pushed off a cliff? Cody is a boy. Sorry. Is it child marriage? It was June 29th, 2013,

and he had just married the girl of his dreams, the love of his life, Jordan Lynn Graham. And Jordan, whoo-wee, she was also present. What? She was there. She got married, and she was there. Okay.

Honorable mention to Jordan. Okay. Honorable mention to Jordan. Cody and Jordan had met at church in Kalispell, Montana. Cody initially was just like an occasional churchgoer, while Jordan was a lifelong regular whose life centered around her faith. Jordan's faith seemed to be a good influence on Cody, though, as shortly after they met, they started dating and Cody became a church regularly. I'm sorry. Became a church.

What a transition. Am I right? Cody became a church regular. Oh, okay. As it turned out, and he attended with Jordan as often as possible. Uh-huh. Cody was 24 and Jordan was 21 when they first started dating. And after their initial meeting, Cody told his mom

that he was going to marry Jordan someday. They shared the same values and goals in life but they were kind of an opposites attract sort of situation. Cody was outgoing and fun-loving and very social, while Jordan was quiet and more reserved. Cody's friends had their concerns about his relationship with Jordan.

It was clear to them that Cody was head over heels in love with her. But it seemed like he was the only one putting effort into the relationship. He would do just about anything to spend time with Jordan, while it seemed to them, at least, that she put in very little effort to make that happen. That kind of surprises me. I know. I don't know. I guess I just think of like the church loving ladies as being, you know. Yeah.

Real ready for that relationship. For the most part, though, it seems that Cody's friends kept their concerns to themselves. Jordan's friends, though, seemed to have very similar concerns about the relationship. It seemed to them that Cody was always the one arranging the dates, insisting they hang out, and honestly, it seemed that

Jordan didn't even like Cody that much. They had never seen them kiss or hold hands or, hell, even flirt. Did they try looking through their windows? Just peep on in there. Jordan's friend Hannah said it seemed to her that while Cody was always, you know, putting in all that effort and arranging those hangouts and those dates, Cody was always, you know, putting in all that effort and arranging those hangouts and those dates. In contrast, Jordan seemed to always be looking for an excuse not to get together. Jordan's best friend, Kimberly Martinez, thought it almost seemed like Jordan was nervous to be alone with Cody.

Oh. She said it was so clear to anyone who knew them that Cody was madly in love with Jordan. But Jordan was kind of distant. She would bring friends along on their dates. Oh, no. Kimberly recalled that she wasn't sure they'd actually ever been on a date that didn't involve other people. Now, I will say this isn't mentioned in any of these articles, but I think that this could be based in Jordan's faith. There are lots of religions that don't condone unchaperoned dating.

Right. But I didn't find it any I didn't find it mentioned anywhere that this was specifically her belief. But it was mentioned multiple times that she did not believe in premarital sex. Right, okay. Well, and probably if it were part of her religious beliefs, it wouldn't seem so strange to all her friends. That's probably true, yeah.

So, you know, how old were they? 24 and 21 when they first started dating. She was 21? Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah.

So do with that information what you will. Because of the seemingly one-sided nature of their relationship, friends of the couple were surprised when after a year of dating, Cody proposed and Jordan said yes. Wow. Yeah. Cody was thrilled to be marrying his dream girl. Oh, Cody. I know. And initially, Jordan seemed pretty excited.

Whoa. Really? She posted a picture of her ring on Instagram, and she asked her best friend, Kimberly, to be her maid of honor. But according to Kimberly, Jordan's interest in the wedding seemed to fade pretty quickly. She said that she seemed excited to plan a wedding, but not all that excited to actually get married. In fact, she was almost like irritated whenever the conversation turned to the actual act of getting married and being Cody's wife. And eventually, again, according to her best friend, Kimberly, Jordan just kind of withdrew from the wedding planning altogether. And Cody and Kimberly did all of it.

This story is so weird, but I am so into it. Jordan even asked Kimberly for reassurance as the wedding day drew closer. She asked her if she was making the right decision marrying Cody. And Kimberly was like, sorry, bro, can't answer that for you. But if you are having cold feet or having second thoughts, you really need to talk to Cody about this. Right. But it seems that Jordan never did have a conversation with Cody about her thoughts. And on June 29th, 2013, Cody and Jordan were married.

The vibe at the wedding was... Funeral vibes? Weird. Okay. Cody was elated. While Jordan walked down the aisle bawling and shaking her head. Oh, my. Oh, my.

At the altar, she held Cody's hand, but she never made eye contact with him. She stared at the ground the entire time. Were her parents involved? Like, were they pushing her to get? It doesn't seem that way. Did Cody secretly have a gun? Again, does not seem to be the case. You think the sources would have mentioned it?

I think they might have. That present tense source? Yeah. Following the ceremony, Cody was on cloud nine. He told his groomsmen he was on a high. He couldn't believe he'd just married the girl of his dreams. Meanwhile, Jordan expressed almost instant regret to her friends. She told Kimberly, I should be happy and I'm just not. Oh, gosh.

Okay, now hold on. She's walking down the aisle crying, shaking her head. So it's clearly not happy tears. Yeah. What's the reaction? People thought it was weird, but like just maybe thought she was overwhelmed with emotion and it was coming out oddly. Okay. Seemed to be the general consensus.

Okay. Yeah. All right. Jordan also confided in her maid of honor that she felt very uncomfortable with the expectations Cody might have of her for their wedding night. She said she was worried

that he was going to want to try stuff. Yeah, probably. And she wasn she was worried that he was going to want to try stuff. Yeah, probably. And she wasn't comfortable with that and that she was going to, quote, freak out, unquote. Jordan told Kimberly she was going to tell Cody that she had started her period. That would buy her a few days. Oh, gosh, this poor girl. Fast forward to July 8, 2013. Cody and Jordan had been married for nine days when Cody failed to show up for work

on Monday morning. Friends and family were obviously concerned and asked Jordan, you know, what's going on? Where's Cody? And Jordan told them that the night before the two had gone to their typical Sunday evening church service, and then they'd gone to dinner at Dairy Queen. After dinner, they'd gone home and Cody had gone out into the garage. A little while later, Jordan said that she'd gone out into the garage to check on him, but he wasn't there. She said she caught a glimpse of him getting into a black car with a Washington State license plate on it. And they're in Wisconsin? They're in Montana. Okay. Very close. They're in Montana.

Okay. Very close. Brendan Brandon. Wisconsin, Montana. She said the car pulled away from the house, turned the corner, and that was the last she'd seen of him. So did she call his phone? Mm-mm. She hadn't done anything until he hadn't showed up for work on Monday and people were asking about him.

That's a creamy, steamy load of bullshit. Yeah. While Cody and Jordan's friends and family were concerned about his disappearance, some of them noticed how unconcerned Jordan seemed. She was just kind of like hanging out, eating ice cream while everyone else was trying to figure out what their first step should be. Is that true? Was she really eating ice cream? What flavor? I don't know. I believe it was an ice cream cone. She's like, make it a triple scoop.

Because I need to buy myself some time yeah yeah what the fuck so it was actually cody's friend who made the official missing person report yeah not his wife well it can take a while to get through an ice cream cone. So Jordan's friend Hannah took this all a step further, and she said that immediately following the news that Cody was missing, that was the happiest that she'd seen Jordan maybe ever. Oh, wow. She said she seemed completely carefree. Oh, yuck. Mm-hmm. So Cody Johnson

was reported missing by his friend on July 8th, 2013 with the last known sighting of him on July 7th. Naturally, police wanted to talk

to the last person to be with Cody so they sat down with Jordan on July 9th. And admittedly, they already had their suspicions about her. Why? They found it extremely odd that she hadn't been the one to report Cody missing. She hadn't even bothered to try and, like, call him or anything anything when he mysteriously gotten in that car and driven away.

And so they pressed her about this. And in response, she told them on slightly different version of what had happened the night she'd last seen Cody. In this version, the version she told the police, she and Cody had had dinner at Dairy Queen. version, the version she told the police, she and Cody had had dinner at Dairy Queen, but on the drive home, Cody had received a call and whatever that call was, it had upset him. Jordan told the investigators that she didn't know the details of the call, but when they had arrived home that evening, she had realized that her cell phone was dead and that she'd left her charger somewhere else.

was dead and that she'd left her charger somewhere else. And so she like dropped Cody off at the house and then drove to go pick up her charger. And while she was gone, she received a text from Cody on her dead cell phone. I'm not really sure that he was going to go for a drive with a friend from out of town. And when she arrived back home, she saw a black car pulling out of their driveway with Washington plates, and she knew that Cody was inside because he'd sent her that text. And this has all been verified. They've seen that text? Well, so here's the thing about that.

Of what? So the investigators asked Jordan to show them the text that Cody had sent her that evening. And she said, you know what, guys, I'd really love to be able to do that. But here's the thing. Cody and I always delete our text messages. No, you don't. You weirdo. So that thing is long gone.

Yeah, you hate to have a bunch of texts cluttering things up. Yeah. Yep. So the police were like, okay, cool, great, thank you for your time. Mm-hmm. You weirdo murderer. Mm-hmm. So the following day, when Cody had been missing for approximately 48 hours and there was still no sign of him, friends and family members gathered at Jordan and Cody's house to discuss putting together some kind of search.

And again, they were baffled by Jordan's odd behavior. She seemed very uncomfortable discussing her missing husband. And at one point she became so aggravated that she took her wedding ring off and threw it across the room. Odd move. Yeah. Real odd move. Mm-hmm.

So they decide that they're going to distribute these missing persons flyer. And shortly after that, they've organized like, OK, they've got the flyers printed up. They're going to start handing them out. They've got it coordinated with the police about where to be putting them up. And then Jordan like pulls a friend, one of her friends aside and is like, oh, my God, I just got this email from one of Cody's friends. Tony S. Did she send herself an email? Did she?

I think she probably did. So she tells this friend that she got this email from Tony S., the car man. That's how he signed it, obviously. And this mysterious Tony told her that Cody accidentally fell off a cliff in Glacier National Park while they were hiking there. Just like a bunch of friends, the friends that he got in the car with and drove away. So it's more than one friend. They went to Glacier National Park and they were hiking and he fell off a cliff. The email read in part, hello, Jordan. My name is Tony.

There is no bother looking for Cody anymore. There's no bother. He's gone. What a weird way. Uh-huh. Not, I'm so sorry to tell you this. Not, hey, could I get your phone number? I have something important to discuss with you.

Number one priority, call off the search. Call off the search. He done fell off a cliff. Yep. Yep. So it's her friend Hannah, who we've already met in this story, who she's sharing this email with. And Hannah's like, what? Yeah.

You got an email? What are you talking about? And she's like, and so George is very calmly like, yeah, look, it says that he's dead and that we should just stop looking for him. And she's like, OK, we need to go tell the police. Like, we need to take this to the police right now. And Jordan was like, oh. Okay.

Is that what we should do? And she's like, yes, like, let's go right now. And so they do. They go to the police and they hand over the email. And the police and they hand over the email. And the police were like, what the fuck is this? They were like, this is all the evidence we need.

They printed out that email, put it in the file. Case closed. So the lead detective, Detective Corey Clark, looked at this email and he was like, this is what he said about it. The email that she provided us stated that these unknown persons that he had taken off with, as well as this Tony person, had seen him fall off a cliff or at least disappear in that she was given explicit instructions to tell the police to call off the search. There was no more need to search for him. And it truly seemed like she expected us to just walk away from the case at that point. Jordan.

Jordan. Jordan, Jordan, Jordan. Not the brightest. Detective Clark also noted an extreme lack of emotion that he noted in Jordan. Did he note it? He did.

What did I say? He said it twice. That's when you note it and you highlight it. He's making a list and he's checking it twice like fucking Santa Claus. Gonna find out who murdered their hubs. Detective Clark is coming to town. So now it's four days after Cody's disappeared. And, like, Jordan has – I was going to say organized, but it was going to come out organized.

She organized it all. She organized a search party, and they headed to Glacier National Park. Really? She did really. I thought they were done with the search. It was called off. No bother. She organized a search party with her friends and some of Cody's family members.

And they headed off to Glacier National Park, which is not that far from where they lived. The drive there was weird. OK, but people had to be thinking you did this, right? Yeah. So, OK, picture this. Jordan was driving Cody's car. OK. Jordan was driving Cody's car. Okay. And sitting in the car with her were a couple of her friends and Cody's younger brother. And on the drive there, she's got her window down.

She's doing the thing where she puts her hand out of the window and lets it flow in the breeze. the window and lets it flow in the breeze. And she's got her sunglasses on and she's got the music cranked up and she's dancing in her seat on the way to the search party for her missing dead husband. See, this doesn't rattle me the way it does it doesn't? no because everyone reacts to things differently and this is the reaction

of someone who just murdered somebody okay yeah yeah so like it's weird either way yeah yeah I think it's weird

yes I think that's exactly right and yet that's the reaction yeah yeah so they go and they put up missing persons flyer. All flyers. You want to hear something weird? What?

You did that earlier. I did? Missing persons flyer. Well, that's weird. It's because I don't like there being an S on persons. Yeah. And so I just have to chop it off the flyer. You wish it was missing people flyers.

Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, so they put up some flyers, but it gets kind of dark, and they have to leave without doing much of a search. But the next day, Jordan, like, reorganizes all those same people. And she's like, I've had a vision. Oh, my God. I know where he is. Yeah, because you murdered him.

We have to go. Okay. Where? And so they drive out to Glacier National Park again. And as they're driving, people are pointing out, like, do you think we should go down this road? She's like, no. No. Nope. And as they're driving, people are pointing out, like, do you think we should go down this road? She's like, no, no. I know where he is.

I am being guided there by the Lurd. And so they drive to this area, a well-known area known as The Loop. And there was like a walking trail there. And then wasn't nelly from there didn't he say he was from the loop and he's proud he's from the loo and he's proud anyway in the area known as the, there was a walking trail. And then there was like a 300-foot drop-off, like a sheer cliff straight down. There was like a waterfall there. But there was this safety wall that had been put up so that you couldn't easily access like the big drop off.

So she parks up here in this area and then she walks straight over to the wall. And she's like, he's down there. I know it. And she starts to like climb up over the wall. And they're like, her friends and family are like, what are you doing? What are you doing? And she's like, I'm being called. I'm being called to this point.

She climbs over the safety wall and she stands on this like rocky ledge. And she looks down where there is like a ravine there. Is she going to pretend to see him? And there lying at the bottom in this ravine was a body. She pushed him. She was like, was a body. She pushed him. She was like, there he is. I see him. There he is.

He's down there. And so they called the police and police come and the detectives come and sure enough, there's a body down in that ravine and they have to like bring a helicopter in and like they down there.

And a couple of the detectives are like dropped down off this helicopter apparently. All right. And sure enough, it's the body of Cody Johnson. And so they talk to Jordan and they're like, how'd you know to come here? The Lord. And she said, I was driven here by the Holy Spirit. And also. Did you hear my sign?

I sure did. My God. I sure did. And then she said something else that the detectives found very odd. Something else that the detectives found very odd. She said, I knew he'd be here because this is a place Cody wanted to see before he died. Yeah. What?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so fucked up. Yep. It sure is. It sure is. It sure is. An investigation of the scene and of Cody's body showed that he had fallen face first. Face.

Did I say faced first? No, I think you said face first. OK. You're paranoid now. I am. I am. Missing people flyer. Missing persons flyer. OK.

You're paranoid now. I am. Is that missing people flyer? I am missing people, missing persons flyer. He had fallen face first almost 300 feet off the edge of this cliff and that he had several injuries to his head and to his arms and it was real bad. It was real bad. Everybody was super emotional after the discovery of Cody's body and the news that he had fallen to his death and like how the fuck had he gotten onto that cliff and like this was super weird. His family was like – he was afraid of heights. Like he was afraid of heights and – somebody noticed that Jordan seemed to be the only one who wasn't emotional. Well, she had more time to process it. Mm-hmm.

So the first thing or one of the first things she said that was remembered by her loved ones was that she said, great, now that we have a body, we can have a funeral and the cops can be out of this whole thing. Mm-hmm. Yep. So they did. They held a funeral for Cody Johnson 16 days after his wedding where he married the girl of his dreams. And by this time, people were very suspicious of Jordan.

And she was acting very cold at their funeral. She sat in the front next to his mom and dad, next to her mom and dad. Everyone was crying. And she was on her phone texting someone who knows who didn't cry um again while people were up at the funeral like speaking about Cody you know sharing memories of him she was doing something on her phone, just completely disengaged. It is at the funeral that her friend, Kimberly, her best friend, her maid of honor, became convinced that Jordan had murdered her husband. Oh, God.

She was like, at that point, I was absolutely positive that she had done this. I'd never seen her act so cold. I'd never seen her act so unemotional. It was like she was a different person. In the meantime,

the police had been doing like a secret investigation into Jordan and they'd already compiled enough evidence against her to arrest her for the murder of Cody Johnson. What'd they have? The police had already determined that that email from the mysterious Tony S. Okay, yeah. They'd gotten subpoena to get the IP address and all that. It came back to her stepdad's house and her login on his computer.

So Tony was there the whole time? No. See, that's – Mm-hmm. No, no. Jordan was pretending to be Tony. I've never seen the show Catfish. You'll have to excuse me.

So, like, one of the detectives on this, because I think it was actually the captain, was like, yeah, it was really easy to figure out that she had written this email. We were just really surprised that she would create a fake email to try and end the investigation and really surprised that she thought, like, that that would work. Like, just be like, well, he's dead and, you know. Everybody go home. You know, everybody stop. Police had also uncovered evidence that Jordan was with Cody at Glacier National Park the night that he died. Because cell phones go ping? Yeah.

Cell towers go pong? Yeah. Through interviews with Cody's friends, they learned that Cody had canceled plans with them that evening. He was supposed to go golfing or, like, to the driving range with a bunch of friends. And he called them and said, Sorry, guys, got to cancel. Jordan says she has a big surprise for me. Oh, my God.

And they had all been, like, high-fiving and everything because they all speculated that she was going to have sex with him for the first time. Oh. Because they at this point had still not consummated their marriage. Yeah. However, investigators also learned that Jordan's friends had had a conversation with her that night. She had confided in them that she was going to tell Cody that night that she thought they'd made a mistake getting married and that she just wasn't ready for all of it.

Mm-hmm. The couple had then driven to Glacier National Park that night in Cody's car. At first, Jordan tried to tell investigators that she wasn't there with her husband, but there were surveillance cameras at the park entrance. And it was very clear that she was sitting in the car with Cody. And then they heard her cell phone records put her in the park that night with Cody. Cody. So with all this information, they took Jordan into custody like right after Cody's funeral. She was brought into the Kalispell Police Department and she sat down with like an FBI special agent. So this is because the murder happened in a national park.

It becomes a federal crime. Oh, OK. Yeah. And so she sits down in a room and at first she's like, I don't know anything. I don't know anything about this. And they were like, OK, we're going to place you under arrest for the murder of your husband. No reaction at all. And then they were like, all right, and these are the things we know.

And they listed off all of the evidence they had against her and she just broke down and started crying. Wow. And then she gave a full confession. She said that she had immediately regretted her marriage to Cody. She said, I kind of was feeling that we should have waited a little bit longer. And I just wasn't feeling like I was on cloud nine like I was supposed to. She said that she and Cody had been arguing that night, the night of his death, and that they decided that they should go out to Glacier National Park. So they went to the park. They walked around.

They went over to the loop. And then they climbed over that wall and, like, walked down onto that rocky area. And this is what Jordan said happened after that. She said, I didn't want to do the trail because I was afraid that he could fall. She said, I didn't want to go out there because I was afraid that we could fall. She said, Cody said to her that he could do it with a blindfold on. He said, I could step out and I wouldn't even fall. And she said, I said, you're going to fall. And we started to get into an argument. He then grabbed my arm and my jacket and I said, no. And I pushed him away.

And he fell 300 feet to his death. So this doesn't really match the evidence because the evidence showed that Cody would have been facing out when he was pushed. So she would have been standing behind him. They wouldn't have been facing each other like in an argument yeah he would have been facing out and she would have had to push him from behind yeah jordan went on to say that like while yes she was confessing to pushing him it was in no way premeditated it was an accident. And it had just been reflex. He grabbed her and she pushed herself to steady herself.

Jordan was arrested and charged with first degree murder, second degree murder and making misleading statements to officials. She pled not guilty. So this case was tried in federal court because the murder happened in a national park. And I don't know if they're working on some kind of different timeline over there in Montana, but this trial began in December of 2013, five months after the murder. Huh. I wonder if it was just so easy. I don't know.

That is very speedy. Very fast. During opening arguments, the prosecutor said that they would show that Jordan was having serious second thoughts about her marriage before her husband's death and that she'd willfully lied to police after it. But Jordan's defense team said that the death plunge was an accident resulting from an argument and that Jordan had initially lied to police because she was afraid she wouldn't be allowed to explain what had happened on that cliff that night.

Prosecutors told the jury that they would draw on text messages that they say show that Jordan was unhappy in her marriage. And they would also give testimony that kind of tracks that through friends. And then also that showed that the actions that she had taken to deceive family members, friends, and police following Cody's death. The prosecution said, we have evidence that will give you a window into Jordan Graham's mental state. So Jordan's defense attorney told the jury that Jordan wasn't some murderer, someone who had planned this out. She was just a young, naive, and socially inept young woman. And somebody whose own family describes her as withdrawn, all that weird behavior that people noted, that's just Jordan. That's just who she is.

And they admitted, yes, she wove a web of lies to police to run from the reality of the situation instinctively like a frightened rabbit. Her attorney said that Jordan was so scared that no one would let her explain what had happened. So she just had to lie about it. Yeah, I don't love it. No, I'm rolling my eyes big time. Yeah. Yep. Her defense attorney went on to say that Jordan admits a degree of responsibility in her husband's death

a degree she pushed him but it was it wasn't planned she's not guilty of murder this was an unfortunate accident and then oopsies she sent that email unfortunately the prosecution put all kinds of witnesses on the stand to talk about all the stuff that they laid out. Like, yeah, these are the friends who noticed the weird stuff in the relationship. This is the stuff she told the friends. These are lies she told. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They put forward all those text messages.

I should be happy and I'm not, you know. Oh, so she and Cody only, truly only deleted the text to each other. Apparently. Very normal. They also were able to put forward some text messages that Jordan had sent to her friend, Kimberly Martinez, on the day of Cody Johnson's death. She said, you know, I'm going to talk to him tonight. I'm going to tell him I'm not happy. I'm going to tell him I think we made a mistake getting married.

And she said in this text message, if you don't hear from me at all again tonight, something happened. Well, something did fucking happen that night. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. happened that night. Wow. Yeah.

The prosecution then played Jordan's taped FBI interview for the jury and in it she admitted that she shoved him she said I pushed him

and I took off and that she explains why they ended up at the park that night. They were going to talk about their marital issues. And then, you know, they'd gone out on that cliff and he'd grabbed her.

And it was just instinctive that she – is that what I want to say? Instinctual? Yeah. Yeah. That's what you said. That he grabbed her and she just pushed off. She didn't think about where they were. She didn't think about how she was pushing him off a cliff to his death.

The defense tried to chip away at the prosecution's image of Jordan as this cold, dispassionate woman who didn't want to marry Cody. And their contention that eight days later she'd led him to this cliffside where she pushed him off by playing videos of her from her wedding day. There was like a video of her while she was getting ready, getting her hair and makeup done, and she's laughing and talking with her friends. And then they played another video. It was a recording of Cody and Jordan's first dance at their wedding, and they had some special song written specifically for their first dance.

Oh, I bet it was horrible. I'm sure it was not great. I did not get to hear it. That's a shame. Yes. The defense rested their case without Jordan testifying in her own defense. Do you want me to write a song for you and David? I do not.

Thank you for asking. Too late. It's already been written. It's to the tune of Salt-N-Pepa's Shoop. Oh, no. Just as both sides were set to deliver their closing arguments to the jury, the defense made a surprise move when they submitted a motion to withdraw Jordan's not guilty plea. What?

Instead, she agreed to plead guilty to second degree murder in accordance with a plea agreement offered up by the prosecution. Wow. Just before the case was going to go to the jury, the defense was like, hey, you know that plea deal you offered us at the beginning here? I'm surprised the prosecution wasn't like, yeah, that's expired. Yeah, that thing is expired. So, yeah, they allowed her to plead guilty to second degree murder. And they would take the first-degree murder off the table. And when this happened in the courtroom, like, it was nuts.

Cody's family was sitting there. And reportedly his mother, like, grabbed whoever was sitting next to her and just, like, crumpled him. She was like, did she say guilty? And, like, it was just, like, this moment where they had gotten what they had hoped for. She was just going to plead guilty. This was all going to be over. And they were thrilled with this outcome. Part of the plea deal was that then Jordan had to explain what happened that night.

But she gave the same shitty explanation she'd given before. She said, I just wasn't thinking where we were. But they had climbed over that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know where you are. Mm-hmm. She did say, she did admit

that she wasn't happy. Mm-hmm. And that had led to that argument, but that she hadn't intended to kill him when she pushed him. Ugh. to kill him when she pushed him. At her sentencing in March of 2014, Jordan again filed a motion, a surprise motion.

What? She filed a motion to withdraw her guilty plea. No, no, no, no. What? Yeah. So her defense argued that basically the prosecution was like, hey, hey, come on over here. Take this great plea deal. We will take first degree murder off the table.

But then after she'd agreed to that plea deal, they'd been like, oh, by the way, we're still going to ask for the maximum sentence. And she was like, what? Oh, my gosh we're still going to ask for the maximum sentence. And she was like, what? Oh, my gosh. I'm going to have to go to jail for this? What did she think was going to happen? She thought that they were going to then argue for like a lenient sentence for her and she would get it. How long did she think she would go away for?

I don't know. So when it became clear that the prosecution was like, no, we're going to ask for like the maximum sentence here. Uh-huh. They filed a motion to withdraw the guilty plea. Uh-huh. And the judge

was like, that is not how this fucking works. Absolutely not. Yeah. And so the judge sentenced her to 365 months in prison, which is just over 30 years. The family, Cody's family, had asked for life in prison for Jordan. Mm-hmm. 30 years. Okay. And that's the story of newlyweds. Gosh, that was strange. So strange.

Yeah. She murdered him eight days after their wedding. Do you think she had sexual trauma? And maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here. Yeah, I jumped to a different conclusion. What was that?

That she's a secret lesbian. And didn't realize it until she was confronted with the thought of having to have sex with her new husband. There's no basis to that. That's just my own. But every secret lesbian has to push her straight husband off a cliff. That's right. That's right. That's right. We don't make these rules.

Those are the rules. So who knows? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was definitely, I mean, to her it was, the idea of having sex with her husband was scary enough that it was better to kill him. scary enough that it was better to kill him. Whew. How do you like these newlywed cases?

I kind of like them. What about the, this is kind of like a, there's a, there was a cliff. Yeah, you're kind of, yeah. And then like also newlyweds.

You're having a little bit of fun with it. Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. You know what I think we should do now? Take questions from our Discord. I think that's exactly what we should do.

How do they get into the Discord? Oh, to get into the Discord, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher if you're feeling spendy. It's like a 90s style chat room. It is a great time. Bidets for Brandy wants to know, do you use bath bombs? My Lance Bass is way too sensitive to use them. I don't take baths. So you don't don't bathe at all. I do take showers. I don't care for stewing in my own soup. Don't like your own flavors and juices, huh? I do not.

I love them and I'm too cheap for bath bombs. So what does that mean? I know. Well, it's like, remember, this was like two years ago, you got me a basket of stuff

for my birthday included a bath bomb. And I kept it for no shit, like a year and a half. Like, I didn't save this for a special occasion. Yeah, it was like this. But when do you take a bath that's a special occasion? And so I kept being like, nope, not tonight. This is just a regular old bath tonight.

This is just a Tuesday night. This is all business. And finally, I was like, this is kind of sad. I've got this bath bomb. So I used it. And it was a special occasion. What about Epsom salt? You ever do that?

Oh, yeah. I do that all the time. That doesn't feel so special because you've got a big tub of it. It doesn't feel like I spent a dollar for this right here, you know? Are other people's brains not wired this way? No, this is a DP. This is straight down the DP pipeline. I know.

I know. There's something about knowing the cost per use that makes me be like, nope, we can't do this. Queen Robin asks, if you were the opposite sex for a day, what would you do? I would spend a significant portion of my day just flopping my dong around. I would. Everyone, she's bouncing. Just doing like dances and figuring out like, can I do the helicopter thing? My God.

My God. What would I do? And also I'd go get a job and make more money than all the women there. I was, I'm so glad you said that because the first thing that came to my mind was something super dark too and I was like I'd go for a walk late at night and not worry about being raped

exactly I was like nope not gonna say that doesn't really fit in with the fun time we're having with this question but also helicopter dong Winston the Corgi wants to know Doesn't really fit in with the fun time we're having with this question. But also. Helicopter dong. Yeah. All right. Winston the Corgi wants to know, best element for a Halloween party?

I would say uranium. Oh, my God. Because I glow in the dark. Okay. Okay. That's wonderful. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh. Just.

Oh. You don't like that? Nope. Nope. Poogash says, not a question, but I got a new amazing job and it's extremely fulfilling. And my family doesn't really give a shit. Can you be excited for me? I finally have a purpose.

Yeah. Fuck yes. Congratulations on your new job. Hold on. Maybe the reason their family's not supportive is the job is serial killer's apprentice. I don't think that's true. We have to consider all the possible jobs. Get back to us, please, about what this job is. Betty White Shit on My Coat wants to know,

what's the maddest you've ever gotten at a customer, and what did they do to pique your ire? Do you have one? I don't think so. Oh, okay. I don't really get mad at anyone other than myself. Hmm. I wonder what that's like.

All right, fine. I'm a real bitch to myself, but not really to other people that often. I know you are. We had something happen this week that wasn't your fault in the slightest. And you were so mad at yourself i was i legitimately was yeah so i called you a stupid hoe you did and it was exactly what i needed oh i think this is a unwinnable battle you got here patchwork turtle patchwork turtle asks how do you convince 12-year-old

middle schoolers to stop drawing penises in the after-school program? Tell them that they can only do it in the before-school program. Get them all out of the way. Out of their system. No, that can't be done. Yeah.

Outraged. Would like to know, do you throw little birthday parties for your pets? Oh, what a timing! I know! Oh my gosh, the timing! Okay, so today is Dottie and Kit's birthday. Yes! They're littermates, so...

Which means they have the same birthday. Well, yeah, I thought people would not realize they were littermates and be like, so you just picked a day? You just made up the same birthday. No, it's so much cooler than that. Are you doing, have you baked them a cake? Here's the thing.

I was a little disappointed when I realized it landed on a Wednesday because, you know, Wednesdays are big days for us. It's a big day. We're very busy on Wednesdays. So we're going to have to celebrate tomorrow. Okay.

Well, you better celebrate tomorrow. I'm going to get the— No, I'm very excited. I'm going to get the braided rawhides. That's our favorite kind of rawhide. I think we're going to go to the dog park. Excellent. Norman wants to let them eat cheeseburgers, which I think sounds like a farting disaster.

I think that sounds like a diarrhea disaster. Yeah, it's going to be terrible, but good luck telling this guy that he can't feed our dogs cheeseburgers. Anyway. No, I'm so excited because with Pina, we never knew her exact birth date because the paperwork I got from the shelter said she was a boy. Yeah. But, you know. Yeah. Anyway.

And she was an adult male. Yeah. She was an adult boy. Yeah. But, you know. Yeah. Anyway. And she was an adult male. She was an adult boy. And she was a girl puppy. Yep. Sure was. Sure was. But anyway, I'm so excited. No, that's very exciting. I'm very excited for you to have your little puppy dog party

tomorrow. Do you have little birthday parties for you? No. Yeah, I mean, I hadn't really. They're old. They're old. Oh, my gosh. No. Bluey podcast patron says, no question, but thank you for posting the last Patreon episode two days after I went to Kings Island and not before. Oh, yeah.

That would have been a bummer of a time. You would have been thinking about that bus crash the whole time. Veronica H. wants to know, if you were going to dress as each other or your significant others, what would your necessities be? Okay, so if you dressed as me, you'd just dress as me. Oh, it'd be the most boring thing. Yeah. Black hoodie, flippy floppies. Yeah.

Easy. Ripped jeans. Easy. You're a little more difficult to nail down. I'm an enigma, baby. Yeah. Uh-huh. Costco sweatshirt.

It'd be real tough. I mean, I'd have to go to Costco and spend 45 bucks. Easy. Easy. What would you wear if you were going to dress as Norm? Oh, that'd be easy, too. I was thinking that time that I wore David's shirt. You did?

When we were moving, you put David's shirt on. How long did it take him to notice? Like, an alarming amount of time? Because I looked so natural in it. Yeah, so Brandy rudely made a pile of his clothes that she said just had to go. Okay. To be fair, I asked him to go through his clothes prior to our move because I knew we were downsizing closet space. And he was holding on to many a shirt that he did not wear.

Specifically a t-shirt, a dry fit t-shirt in a real leafy camo print, which I had repeatedly asked him to stop wearing. at our new closet and his clothes would not fit as I predicted. He then quickly had to go through them because he hadn't done the task that I had asked him to complete. And so when you were there helping us move our stuff in, there was a pile of his clothes on the floor because I was about to bag them up and take them to donation. And so you put on the leafy camo shirt. And when David came into the room carrying a dresser or something of that nature, he was like, what are you wearing? I'd worn a hoodie that day with nothing underneath it, which is poor planning for moving.

You know, I've only told my mom like one story about that moving day. But her one takeaway was like, oh, so you and Brandy just goofed around while everyone else did all the work. Because I told her about how we like walked the runway up to the truck with like stuff on our heads to balance. Yes, we did. And I was like, no, we actually did work. We did actually do work. But then I'm thinking, okay, so my mom will now have heard two stories. Who got us dicking around.

And one of them was I put on David's shirt for Goodwill and waited for it to notice. Ooh, this is a good question, but I don't think I have an answer to it. Okay. Cool Whip Forever wants to know, Brandi, at what age will you allow London to listen to the podcast? When she's 30, I guess. I think it's a big leap to assume she'd want to listen. Well, yeah, I agree. Because, like, gosh, can you imagine anything grosser than hearing your mom talk about how she would helicopter her dick?

No. If I were a boy, I'd helicopter my dick all day. I would. What is the age? I don't know. I feel like when she's a teenager she's going to want to.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Like 13. That's pretty young. That's pretty young. That's pretty young. What if pretty young. That's pretty young. What if she hates it and she becomes a critic and she starts trolling you daily?

That's a real possibility. What is this? Comrade Kristen wants to know, did you ever participate in Cabbage Night? What? Or other Halloween mischief? What the fuck is Cabbage Night? What is Cabbage Night? That sounds terrible.

When I was 13, we got kicked out of the cemetery for having a seance on Halloween night. Well, you're just asking to get haunted, so. Buy some cabbages. What is a cabbage night? I don't know. Skullviz wants to know, would you all ever consider doing cases that weren't from English-speaking countries? It would be harder to research, so I totally understand if it's not possible. But I know that different places have differences in their court systems, and it would be interesting.

So we have done some, but it is very difficult to research them. It's super difficult. Super difficult. I know you've done one from France. I've done one from France. I've done one from China. I've done one from Italy. Uh-huh.

Norway, you did a Norwegian case. France. I've done one from France. I've done one from China. I've done one from Italy. Norway. You did a Norwegian case. They are very difficult to research. And I think the other thing that's hard is sometimes you kind of take what you can get in terms of sources. And I don't really like doing that. I don't either.

I don't either. I like to read a bunch of sources and be able to like suss out what is the most accurate information. Yeah. Yeah. Or whichever one's the sexiest and written in present tense. Am I right? Cat Lady wants to know, what are your go-to self-care things you do for yourself to lift your spirits on a bad day?

Let me tell you my. Yes, please. I bought this. Three dollars. TJ Maxx. I really enjoy it. It's so stupid. OK, picture it.

It's this little thing like the size of a pumice stone. OK. And one side is a little scrubby. The other is just soft, soapy. Uh huh. It's a foot scrubber. You start with the soapy side, soap up your feet, flip it.

Now the trick is you do have to rinse it off before you put your foot back down. Otherwise you're going slipping and sliding. I'm having a lot of good times. Suds in those feet right up. I also got one of those exfoliating mitts.

I want the one on TikTok. You don't know what this is because you don't have TikTok. But there's one that looks amazing and I want to get it, but I'm afraid that I'm falling prey to a TikTok marketing scam. That's all we said

when these old grannies fall for these schemes. Exactly right. You know, you say I don't get on TikTok, but I was on TikTok last night. I had TikToks last night. I don't know what you're talking about. I was on it last night, Brandi. What were you doing on it? I told you that I've recently become obsessed.

With the Delphi murder, so you had to go down a rabbit hole in TikTok to get some information? Yeah. For those who are uninitiated. Two, I believe they were 13, 14 maybe, girls in Delphi, Indiana were murdered out in the woods. The crime scene was strange. And one of the girls, Libby, I just can't imagine. She obviously sensed that something very wrong was about to happen with this man who was approaching them. And so she surreptitiously took video of him.

And so we have video. We have some audio. And yet we still don't know who did this. Except for I do because I – You have solved the case. I was such a creep. So they've released some audio. And, of course, I'm just listening to the audio.

I don't know anyone from Delphi. I've got no connection, but I'm listening like, I'm going to crack this one wide open. Then I get on the interwebs. Just got sucked right in. Some people say it's this fellow over here. I'm like, oh, this fellow has a TikTok. I'll just listen to some of his TikToks. Boom, found it, solved. oh, this fellow has a TikTok. I'll just listen to some of his TikToks. Boom. Found it. Solved.

Anyway. Don't worry about it. No, I will leave the police work to the actual police. That's probably a good idea. Should we tell the people the embarrassing thing that I did last week? What'd you do last week?

So last week, you all know that we recorded two episodes. We recorded the bonus episode and the regular episode. So that means that we saw each other quite a bit last week for two episodes. So on Wednesday, I was like, oh, my gosh, Kristen, have you seen Lance Bass's babies? And you looked at me and you're like, yes, Brandy, you showed this to me a day and a half ago. And you were embarrassed because you're obsessed with Lance Bass, but you don't want to admit that you're that obsessed. It's a tough thing to keep under your cap, isn't it? It was.

I really showed my cards on that one. What do you think? Should we move on to... Wow. To... Yes, we should. This is so... This is so pretty. This is so pretty. This is so pretty. This is so pretty. Hell yeah. Yes, we shall. This week we are continuing to read your names and your favorite cookies.

All right. We will be continuing to read your names and favorite cookies. Why does your face look like that? I already said that part. Oh, you did? Yeah. I clearly was not paying attention. Jenny Pendragon.

Dark chocolate cookies with candied ginger. Hmm. Really? Might be too much. Hmm. Mandy K. Greek butter almond cookies by my yaya. Sounds like some shit you try to make where you're like, I'm going to replace the oil with Greek yogurt.

I bet these are good, though. I bet these are delicious. If they're made by someone's yaya, they're probably pretty good. Samantha Brobst. Lemon cake cookies. Allie Guest. Chocolate chip cookie dough with extra salt. So you get like a sweet and salty kind of thing.

Yeah, that's what happens when you add the extra salt. Alana. Pignoli cookies, I think. Amelia Lucha. Panera's Kitchen Sink Cookies. Jess Clark. Pecan Brittle Oatmeal Cookies. Ooh, I bet those are good.

Vanessa Richardson. Peanut Butter Blossoms. Ginny Agar. White Chocolate Macadamia Nut Cookies. Christine Cropper Alt. Oh, I agree. Panera Iced Shortbread Cookies in Seasonal Shapes. Really?

I've never had a Panera Shortbread. Oh, my God, Brandi. Are you serious? They're just... Oh, man. They're a big... She's right. She says right now they're pumpkins.

They certainly are. I mean, it's just a delicious cookie with nice buttercream frosting. Okay. I'm kind of feeling the way you were feeling about Lance Bass, where I'm like, now I'm kind of embarrassed. You are. You're like salivating right now. Julian B.

Loft House Sugar Cookies. Ashley Ellenwood Linder. Frozen Girl Scout Thin Mix. Olivia Reiser. Raw Cookie Dough, like the Halloween Pillsbury ones. Oh, yeah, they're coming in the tube. Yeah. You know?

Amber Allen. Pistachio Macaroons. Aubrey Gardner. Oatmeal Raisin Alicia Gabriel Pumpkin Chocolate Chip It's Pumpkin Spice Season I'm not sure that pumpkin and chocolate go together

I agree I feel like we need to test this Yeah Emma O'Connell Photo Oatmeal Jumbles What? It's oatmeal, dark chocolate chunks, coconut, dried cherries, raisins, and walnuts, and

basically the size of my face. Alright, alright. That's a lot happening in that cookie. Sidney Mullaney. Oh, what? Hidden Valley Ranch Cookies? Is that a joke? Is that a joke? Ew, that has to be.

Sidney. Sidney Mullaney. No! Peridot. Is that a joke? With ranch dressing? Is that a joke? Ew, that has to be. Sydney. Sydney Mullaney. Peridot. Subway's white chocolate macadamia nut cookies. Angela Eisler. 7-Eleven's chocolate chunk. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Oh, we have recorded yet another meaty boy.

This is a meaty boy. Certified. Certified meaty boy. Thank you for all of your support, everyone. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen,

and then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five-star rating and review. And then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes wikipedia so we owe a huge thank you to the real experts

i got my info from kentucky murder mystery the trials of anthony gray and reporting by keva johns adkins for the news graphic and brandy's not heard of her I got my info from an article for True Crime Daily, an article by Fatim Himraj for Medium, CNN, People.com, and Murderpedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go. Read. They're stuff.