Let's Go To Court! - 197: Childhood Friends & the Kidnapping of Frank Sinatra Jr

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

Initially, Sarah Stern’s disappearance looked like a suicide. Her car had been found abandoned on a bridge. On the day she went missing, she gave a box of keepsakes to a neighbor. Her best friend, Liam McAtasney, confirmed to police that Sarah had been depressed. She’d told him she wanted to “get away.” But Sarah’s family and other friends told a different story. For one, she would never have left her beloved dog unattended. Secondly, she wasn’t depressed at all. Then Kristin tells us about the kidnapping of Frank Sinatra Junior. Barry Keenan was down on his luck. He was addicted to drugs and alcohol, and for the first time in his life, he was broke. He needed money, fast. So he hatched a plan to kidnap Bob Hope’s son. But Bob Hope seemed so nice. He was always entertaining the troops! Kidnapping Bob Hope’s son would be positively un-American. So Barry decided to kidnap Frank Sinatra’s son, instead.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Snatching Sinatra” by Peter Gilstrap for The New Times Los Angeles Magazine 1998 “‘Son of Sam’ law upheld in Sinatra kidnapper’s movie deal,” Reporters Committee For Freedom of the Press “Frank Sinatra, Jr., kidnapping,” FBI.gov “Kidnapping ordeal tested family ties,” by J. Randy Taraborrelli for Arizona Republic, Nov 26, 1997 “Court asked to overturn ban on felons selling stories,” by Robert Jabion for the Associated Press, December 7, 2001 “Both Sinatras due to testify soon,” by Ridgely Cummings for Civic Center News Agency, Feb 27 1964 “Perjury enters Sinatra case as witness changes his story,” UPI, Feb 25, 1964 “Frank Sinatra, Jr., denies kidnapping publicity stunt,” Associated Press, Feb 29, 1964 “Sinatra could go, defendant claims,” Associated Press, March 3, 1964 “Sinatra-abduction case goes to jury,” Associated Press, March 7, 1964 “Jury gets Sinatra kidnap case,” Associated Press, March 7, 1964 In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Sarah Stern” chillingcrimes.com “With Friends Like These” episode 20/20 “Sarah Stern murder: Suspect said she wanted to run away, had suicidal past” by Kathleen Hopkins, Asbury Park Press “Sarah Stern murder: No new trial for Liam McAtasney” by Kathleen Hopkins, Asbury Park Press “Friend Who Killed 19-Year-Old New Jersey Student Sarah Stern Gets Life Without Parole- Plus 10 Years” by Brian Thompson, NBC New York News YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 28+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about the kidnapping of Frank Sinatra Jr.

And I'll be talking about childhood friends. I hope nothing goes horribly wrong. Nope. Well said. Are you feeling a little threatened? Because you're doing a kidnapping? In your territory? Yeah. But I also think I'm really going to enjoy it. I Because you're doing a kidnapping? Yeah. In your territory? Yeah.

But I also think I'm really going to enjoy it. I think you're going to love it. Do you know anything about this one? No. I don't know anything about it. I'm guessing that it's... Completely ignorant, as per you. You're very sure about your son. Oh, God.

Talking about a brilliant woman. Yes, you've guessed correctly. Yeah. That's the extent of my... You couldn't lube up before we started? You know, the irony is I did put on chapstick before we started, and then, you know... I don't know. It wasn't enough.

It's never enough. You can never have enough. You know, people have pointed out, and by people, I mean one person, you've changed up your intro. I have not, though. But you have. You have, and I'm I mean one person, that you've changed up your intro. I have not, though. But you have. You have, and I'm here to let the people know. Kristen has changed. She used to say,

I'll talk about, and now she says, I'll be talking about. You know, I wanted to have more words than you on this podcast. And I figured I'd better start right from the top, you know? From the tippy top? Okay. What's wrong? I don't know. I feel like my collar's too tight. Okay. All right. I'm okay. It's the eve of Thanksgiving here in the sex dungeon. Sure is. is so i feel like we're like kids about to go on we kind of holiday we're a little high we are a little goofy yeah um

yeah we're also gonna make a dessert cheese ball after this for our zoom call well don't tell the people now now they're just just going to be like, oh, I missed it. No, you could sign up and watch the video of it. Yeah, but they're not going to find it. On our Patreon. I mean, yeah, they're not going to join it live. But yeah, okay, I see what you mean. All right.

That was a seamless transition. It was like I drove my Segway right off a cliff. Too soon. Well, you didn't do it yesterday. But the guy who invented the segue did do that. Yes. Norm didn't believe me when I told him that. Well, it does feel a little like a joke.

But nonetheless, it is true. And that was a perfect segue into a pitch about our Patreon where you could watch us make a Thanksgiving themed... Why are you losing confidence? I don't know, you look disappointed in me. I mean, I am, but don't let that stop you. Also, new to our

Patreon, we just dropped a bonus episode. That's right. We have 29 29 bonus episodes on there now. My goodness. That is a dropped a bonus episode. That's right. We have 29 29 bonus episodes on there now. My goodness. That is a lot of bonus episodes. And, you know, do we have to run through the whole thing? Just sign up for the Patreon. Sign up for the Patreon. If you want to.

Yeah. Alright. Okay. It could be our worst yet. It might be our worst one yet. Get ready to experience an all newnew Don Valley North Lexus. Don Valley North Lexus has temporarily relocated around the corner to 7200 Victoria Park Avenue while they build a brand new dealership for you. The deals don't stop, though.

Get loyalty rates as low as 1.9%, delivery credits up to $1,500, and save up to seven thousand dollars on select demonstrator models a proud member of wayne's auto group is that too much would you rather not have anything about your butt you want me to retake no all right stuff about the butt in there i don't care at all leave Leave it all in my butt, Kristen. Ew. You know, a Brandy like two years ago would have said we need to cut it. Nah.

You're evolving. That's right. Okay, do you want to talk about some childhood friends? If this is a child murder. It's not. It's not a child murder. How is that possible? It's a Brandy case and you're talking about childhood friends.

Oh, they grow up to murder each other. I got you.'s a brandy case and you're talking about childhood friends. Oh, they grow up to murder each other. I got you. I don't think they murder each other. Well, yeah. It's a duel. All right. All right.

Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton met on a playground. No, it's not about them. I wish it was. All right. All right. Shout outs to chillingcrimes.com. We all know I'm a big fan.

You are. And to an episode of 2020. Oh, that's kind of my territory. What? I don't watch a lot of 2020.

No, you don't. What? You didn't like it. I didn't like it. Why't like it why not i i don't know i like dateline better i guess 2020 is better no dateline's better i what i it i did not feel that it kept my attention as well as dateline does okay what Is this a recent episode of 2020 you were watching? I believe it was recent. Yes. Dateline. Here's my problem with Dateline.

Because they want to make everything a mystery. Yeah. You don't like that. And not everything's a mystery. Yeah. 2020 goes more truthful with it. Okay.

Well, you know how much I like a mystery. So that's obviously why I like Dateline better. Yeah. But it's not really a mystery though, is it? As I was watching this, I was like why I like Dateline better. Yeah. But it's not really a mystery, though, is it? As I was watching this, I was like, I wish Dateline was telling me this story. You know what?

Okay, I originally called Dibs on a case this week, and I was going to watch a Dateline about it. Yeah. And they did that thing where they're like, she had the perfect life. Everything was going great. Oh, she had this guy in her past but let's not pay any attention to him and i was like okay he murders her and yeah so then i was like you know what no i've got to move on so i found this different case anyway anyway that's just my hot take. Dateline kicks Toy Toy's ass. You know that in the Walmart versus Target argument, you've chosen Walmart.

No, I for sure chosen Target. No, you have for sure chosen Walmart. 100% chosen Target. No, 2020 is higher brow than Dateline. Disagree. Dateline is more popular. More people go there, so to speak. I beg to differ.

Anyway, should we do this? Oh, that's right. We are here for another episode. All right. It all started with a vigilant Uber driver, TJ Pingitore. That's for sure how his last name is pronounced. Not Pingitore or Pingator. For sure, Pingitore.

Hold on. What's your excuse? You watched it 2020. They never said his name. Oh. They never said his name aloud. It just across the bottom of the screen. That's why you're mad at 2020.

So T.J. Pingitore was crossing the Belmar Bridge, which spans the Shark River, as I'm sure everyone already knows, and connects Avon by the sea and Belmar, New Jersey. We all knew that. I didn't even need to tell you. We're talking the Jersey Shore heremar, New Jersey. We all knew that. I didn't even need to tell you. We're talking the Jersey Shore here, folks. Okay, okay. Yeah. So anyway, our boy Teej was out Uber driving

and he was crossing the bridge at 2.45 a.m. on December 3rd, 2016 when he noticed a car abandoned on the side of the road. Is there something funny about that? My notes said he noticed a car abandoned on the side of the road. Kind of an eagle-eyed Uber driver. No kidding. So it turns out it was actually a car, not a card, as my notes here would tell me. Interesting.

Something about the car gave Teej, as we're calling him now. I didn't ask him if that was okay, but I'm just assuming he's fine with it. I like the idea of you having a conversation with him where you don't ask him how to pronounce his last name, but you do ask him if you could call him Teej. Yeah, of course. You do ask him if you could call him Teej. Yeah, of course. So something about the car gave Teej an uneasy feeling and he decided he should trust his gut.

So he called 911 to report the abandoned vehicle. Wow. For the record, he did tell them it wasn't an emergency, that he just felt weird about it and thought he should call it in. When police responded to the bridge, they found a 94 silver four-door Oldsmobile 88. Wow. Parked on the side of the road at the crest of the Belmar Bridge. The keys were in the ignition, but there was no one in the car, no one around the car, no one to be found. The car didn't appear to have been wrecked or disabled in any way,

and it seemed to be in perfect working order. A 94 in 2016 was in perfect working order? I mean, there's your headline right there. That's right. Okay. So they ran the plates and they traced the car back to 96-year-old Lillian Stern. Oh, my. And they soon discovered that it was actually her granddaughter, 19-year-old Sarah Stern, who frequently drove the vehicle. I should hope so.

Yeah, I don't think 96-year-old Lillian was getting behind the wheel very often. What? Do you think she was? Think she's joyriding to bingo? My grandma, I remember one time, like, we were trying to get her to stop driving and someone from church called and like, I guess they saw her driving not super safely. And so my dad was like, mom, you know, hey. And she accused the person of being jealous. I love that.

I know. Jealous bitches up in here. That's really funny because my dad, my dad's like thing when anybody's like talking shit or being critical,

he goes, all I hear is jealousy. So you're prepared for the inevitable day when someone calls. Yeah. Dad, bad news, some jealous hater

saw you driving the wrong way down a one-way. So anyway, they track down Sarah's father, Michael Stern, and he was vacationing in Florida. And he told the police that actually he had been unable to reach Sarah all night. He'd text her. He'd called her. Got no response.

And this was something that was highly unusual. was something that was highly unusual. This was obviously very concerning for both the police to learn that Michael had been unable to reach Sarah and for Michael to learn that Sarah's car had been found abandoned on the bridge. Really? Yeah, this is obviously very concerning to both the police and Michael. Brandy, I want to thank you on behalf of the audience for really holding our hands through this. Absolutely.

And at this point, the police launched a search for Sarah. They went to the home that she shared with her father in Neptune City, New Jersey. So this is just like one town in from the shore. New Jersey. So this is just like one like town in from the shore. Most people who, I don't know, Neptune City was a city of about like 4,000 people. So not very big. And a lot of the people who lived in Neptune like worked at places in the shore. And I think Sarah herself worked at like an ice cream shop like on the Jersey Shore.

Don't worry. You don't have to educate me at all. I watched the Jersey Shore. Don't worry. You don't have to educate me at all. I watched the Jersey Shore very closely. Yes. We're all very familiar. So they showed up at the house in Neptune City, New Jersey, and they knocked on the door and they called out to Sarah, but there was no answer. So they made entry.

Sorry. Yeah. Question. Uh-huh. When she didn't answer, were they concerned? They were concerned. They were concerned that Sarah was not there. And I don't know if I laid this out enough.

Did her dad give a shit? No one had been able to reach her. And so that was concerning. And unusual. Yeah. Both concerning and unusual. Because she would often answer her. Yeah. Very responsible and unusual. Because she would often answer her phone. Yeah.

Very responsible 19-year-old. You know, I think you're a dick. So anyway, the police made entry into the home when no one came to the door. Inside, they didn't find anything of note other than the fact that Sarah's dog, Buddy, was in his kennel. At the time, this didn't seem that weird to them. But as they would later find out, this was a cause of concern because as they talked to Sarah's friends, they learned that Buddy was like her life. She took her dog everywhere. She never kenneled him.

It was only if like her dad was in charge of him for whatever reason that he got kenneled. So this was very out of the ordinary that Buddy was in his kennel. How big a dog are we talking about? A mid-sized dog. I think some kind of beagle mix perhaps. All right. After searching the house and finding nothing, the police spoke to a neighbor who knew Sarah. And the neighbor actually said that she had spoken with Sarah earlier that day.

And she mentioned to the police that Sarah had brought some stuff over to her house that day for safekeeping. Sarah had lost her mother like three years earlier after a battle with cancer, and the neighbor believed that it was some of her mother's things that Sarah had asked her to store. She just, I guess this was like a common thing. Maybe this lady had some extra storage space. I don't know. But she's like, yeah, I freed up some cubbies for you. Bring the stuff on over.

And Sarah had brought a couple of boxes of stuff over and mentioned that it was like, I don't know, some stuff from her mom. That seems super weird. Exactly. And this was a red flag to the police. They were like, OK, her car was found on a bridge. And earlier that day, she'd like given away her keepsakes to someone. That day she'd like given away her keepsakes to someone. They started to wonder if this was maybe not a missing persons case and maybe a suicide case.

Right, yeah. The search for Sarah Stern continued all through the night. And around four o'clock that morning, they arrived at Sarah's best friend's house. Liam McIntasney. So Liam McIntasney. Did I just like throw his name in there? That was like a really weird transition, wasn't it? Should I do that again? No, it was fine. Okay. Okay. Are y'all rattled up? I am. Was someone fucking with you at the beginning of this story? Yes. So Liam McAtasney and Sarah, I was actually really worried that I was going to mispronounce his last name because I've never seen this last name. And I had to like listen to the pronunciation and then keep saying it that way in my head.

Because when I read it, I was like, how the fuck do you pronounce that last name? Anyway, it's McIntasney. All right. I believe he's Irish because his brother's name is Seamus. He has to be Irish. His name is Liam McIntasney. All right. I believe he's Irish because his brother's name is Seamus. He has to be Irish. His name is Liam McIntasney and he has a twin brother named Seamus McIntasney. Oh, that's a hell of a name. All right.

So Liam and Sarah had been very close friends since they met at Sunday school when they were just six years old. Liam talked to police that day. They showed up at the house. They knocked on his door, woke him up. He lived like a little like rental house with a friend of his. And he said that he and Sarah had hung out that day and they asked him, you know, what was her mental state? Yeah. And he's like, well, recently she's been really depressed. And they're like, really? He's like, yeah, she's just things have not been going well

for her. She's been having problems with her dad. He's in this new relationship. And Sarah, I don't know, isn't getting along with him, isn't getting along with the girlfriend or whatever. And things have gone really downhill at home. She's actually been talking about like packing up all of her stuff and moving to Canada. And the police are like, okay. And they're like, well, you say she's been depressed. Do you know, like, has she ever had any, you know, suicidal thoughts or tendencies? And Liam said yes, that he believed she had been suicidal in the past and that he believed that she might be suicidal at this point. It wasn't just because he killed her and this was like what you say when you've killed somebody.

I don't know. Is it? Yeah. formulated this theory that maybe the car was parked there because Sarah had driven to the bridge and had taken her own life by jumping into the shark river. The shark river is not very deep. It's not a very big river, but it has a very strong current and it feeds directly into the Atlantic Ocean. And so they were very concerned. They're like, if she had done that, she would have been swept out to sea. And there's no finding her.

Yeah, no chance of recovery. Yeah. Yeah. And now they're talking to her best friend and he's like, yeah, I was concerned about her. I think she was not in a good place. I think she is suicidal, has been suicidal. So they then narrowed the search down to searching the shark river. They put divers in the water. They brought in boats. But the likelihood of finding anything was not great because of what I just said. They had that strong current that they were working against. All the sharks.

I did wonder that. Why is it called the shark river? Are there sharks in there? No, because the sharks can't be in a river, right? Or am I talking out of my ass? They can't. Bull sharks. What? Let me tell you about fucking bull sharks, Kristen. We'll pause this portion of the story so that I can give you a little bit of a lesson on bull sharks, which I learned during Shark Week on the Discovery Channel.

Okay. Bull sharks live in the ocean, okay? on the Discovery Channel. Okay. Bull sharks live in the ocean. Okay. But they have this like special ability in their fucking gills or whatever where they save salt from the water

so that then they can go and swim in freshwater. And so they move in from the ocean into rivers and swim inland. And they're super fucking aggressive. They have been found in the Mississippi River as far north as St. fucking Lewis.

No! Yes! Oh my god! Yeah. That's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. So sharks absolutely could be in the shark river.

They sure could be. They sure could be. Okay. Yeah. So it's also fucking December in New Jersey. So it's cold as fuck. They've got divers. They've got those, you know, those like, you know what I'm talking about?

No. What are you even doing? Inflatable boats. That's the side of the inflatable boat. You could have just said a boat. No, but are you even doing? Inflatable boats. That's the side of the inflatable boat. You could have just said a boat. No, but not regular boats. Like a cool boat. Inflatable boats.

You mean like a raft? No, I mean an inflatable boat. Okay. That the police have when they do river searches. You really have no idea what I'm talking about. I do. Do you know what you're talking about? You dick.

I don't know why I'm like this today. When they were doing that search, they found that there were actually two surveillance cameras in the area. One on the Belmar Bridge, which is like the Route 35 Bridge. And then one on this like train bridge right next to them. So they're like, great, we have surveillance footage. Let's go pull that and see what happened. So they go to get the footage from these surveillance cameras. And it turns out that neither of them had worked for years. Oh, yeah. That's too bad. Yeah. The search of the river and the surrounding area turns up nothing.

And so police decide to go speak with you know her friends again and they talked to liam again and so at this point they had narrowed down that they thought liam was probably the last person that had been with sarah that day so they wanted to like kind of put down a timeline of like when they were together and then maybe what her steps might have been after they separated. Sorry, I was trying not to burp. I'm going to hit that again. Don't you dare. We need to include it. We need to include that burp. As proof that you are merely human. All right, fine. So they go and they sit down with Liam again. They go to his house. Actually, okay, here is the one thing that I liked about this 2020 episode. Oh, the one thing, huh? Okay. Okay. And I think this is probably unique to this episode.

Okay. So the Neptune City police all wear body cams. And so the whole beginning part of this episode is told, like, through body cam footage. You can watch them go up to Liam's house and talk to him. And I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah. That's the way it fucking should be. Yeah. All body cams. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. So yeah. So on this second occasion, I think Liam was at his mom's house at this point and they go and they talk to him and they're like, listen, like nobody is in trouble here. We are concerned for the safety of Sarah. We think something terrible may have happened. So if you know anything, we just need you to walk us through like what you guys did that day and what you know of her activities that day.

And so he was like, yeah, on December 2nd, we got together that afternoon. We got some food. We went to Taco Bell. We picked up some food. We ran a couple errands and then we went back to Sarah's house and we hung out for a little while. And then I had to work. He's like, I think I left for work at like four o'clock. And that was the last time that I saw Sarah. And so they were able to kind of confirm his timeline with a surveillance camera that a neighbor had. And so they watched, you know, Sarah and Liam come home from Taco Bell and running their errands.

And he hung out for a little bit and then he left just as he told them he had. And then they were able to confirm with security cameras at his job. He worked as like a server at some steakhouse or something like that. And they watched him go to work. Worked as like a server at some steakhouse or something like that. And they watched him go to work. And Sarah didn't leave the house again that night until 11.45 p.m. At 11.45, her car backed out of the driveway.

And then it was found on the bridge at like 2.30 in the morning. They tried to figure out what route she could have taken from her house to the bridge to see if they could find some surveillance footage of her. Right. On the way. And they found nothing. They couldn't figure out what route she took. And like when they checked different possible routes, there was no sign of her car. Hmm.

But that timeline seemed to back up what Liam said. And so this was still pointing to this very likely could have been that Sarah decided to die by suicide that night from that bridge. And this kind of became the narrative that spread around this small town. It's like, yeah, they're looking into this missing person case, but this looks like a suicide. Yeah. Get ready to experience an all-new Dawn Valley North Lexus. Dawn Valley North Lexus has temporarily relocated around the corner to 7200 Victoria Park Avenue while they build a brand new dealership

for you. The deals don't stop though. Get loyalty rates as low as 1.9 percent, delivery credits up to $1,500 and save up to $7,000 on select demonstrator models. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. But some of Sarah's other friends were like, nope, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. She would not run away. She wouldn't take her own life. She didn't seem depressed. She had kind of blossomed in her personalities

since graduating high school. She'd been like a big athlete in high school. And then like she'd kind of found like this artistic side to herself. And she was really into her art. And she was going to pursue like going to school for that or starting some kind of career as an artist. And she was like, just very, seemed very content in the place that she was in her life. According to all of her other friends other than Liam. And her father, when he found out like that night that he found out that her car had been found, found out like that night that he found out that her car had been found. He drove 16 hours overnight from Florida to New Jersey to be home and help in this search in any way he could. Of course.

Just as fast as he could. He said it was like the longest drive of his life. On this other show that I watched 15 minutes of that I didn't like at all, and I won't call by name, but it was this terrible attempted a crime documentary. It was Dateline? It was not. I'm just kidding. The person sat down with Sarah's dad and told this. And Sarah's dad, like, you could just tell, like, this was just obviously terrible for him.

Horrible, yeah. The worst thing he's ever been through. He was talking about how his wife, when they first got married, they were told that they never had kids because she had tumors in her uterus. And then just out of nowhere, she became pregnant with Sarah, and they called her their miracle baby. And then, like, their life was just perfect because they had this baby. And then the wife got sick with cancer and fucking died. Oh, my God. It was terrible. It's awful.

It's awful. Yes. So, yeah, all of Sarah's other friends and Sarah's dad are like, no, this doesn't make sense. She didn't seem depressed. And like if, okay, if she was, if we missed some kind of sign, she would have made arrangements for Buddy. She would not have left her dog there with no one to care for him. She absolutely would not have.

That was the sign to her friends, her dad. And that's the sign that the police took that like, okay, there's more to this. This is not, this isn't what this looks like. But like a whole community search had gone on and it just led to nothing. And so police were just kind of like, where do we go next? And in January of 2017, they finally got a break in the case when they were contacted by a young man named Anthony Curry. He called the police and he said that he believed that he knew what had happened to Sarah, but

he wasn't sure. And so they're like, okay, come on in. And so he said that he was good friends with Liam McIntasney and that there was a conversation that he had had with him, a story that Liam had told him that was just playing over and over and over in his head and he couldn't shake it. And so he finally decided that he just needed to come and talk to the police. So he and Liam had been friends for a long time.

And so this guy, Anthony Curry, sits down with the police and he says that on Thanksgiving, they'd been together like for like a Friendsgiving type thing, that Liam had told him that he planned to kill a girl what that he planned the whole thing out he was going to strangle her and he was going to throw her off a bridge and he was going to make it look like a suicide it's the perfect crime and so this guy just heard this and was like oh okay cool and so anthony was like okay and was like, oh, okay, cool. And so Anthony was like, okay. And he seemed like maybe kind of confused by what Liam was telling him. And so then Liam told Anthony.

So Anthony was an amateur filmmaker. And he told Anthony that he thought it would be the perfect plot for a movie. Because it's the perfect murder. How is it the perfect murder murder because it looks like a suicide so you never get caught except for you do get caught you do get caught but because you're blabbing about it exactly you wouldn't get caught if you didn't talk about it Yeah, this guy came like this fucking close to getting away with this. Yeah. Yeah. So, this

happened on Thanksgiving. Sarah goes missing December 3rd, and then Anthony found out that Sarah was missing a few days later, and he was like, oh my gosh, when he heard that her car was found on the bridge and all this, and he just was like, oh my god, when he heard that her car was found on the bridge and all this,

and he just was like, oh my God, he did it. He really did it. And so then he decided to go to the police and tell them all of this. Well, thank God for that. I mean, I guess I still don't understand like how you don't, hearing this and not... I mean, I... Not doing anything. Yeah, I don't understand it either, unless you're able, like, you just write it off as, like, some...

I mean, something weird that somebody's saying, but that's really fucking weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to commit a murder. And really fucking serious, too. Yeah. So... Yeah.

Yeah, I'm going to commit a murder. And really fucking serious, too. Yeah. So. Yeah. I guess I don't know how I would react in a situation where someone tells me that they're planning to murder someone, but I would sure hope that I would tell someone. Let's try it. Brandy, I thought it was the perfect crime.

You bury your husband in the backyard. And then you joke about it on your podcast so that no one believes it's true. Right. It was the perfect true. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It was the perfect crime. Yeah. Was it?

The only thing is I was wearing my old-timey eyeglasses that, you know, only eight of them are great in the world. Yes, exactly. And so. And, you know, they're right there and, you know, so. Mm-hmm. I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm a superhuman, so I don't think I'll get caught, but we'll see. Okay. Without Anthony coming forward, they would have declared Sarah's death a suicide and the investigation would have been closed.

Yeah, I believe it. Yeah. So Liam really did come very close to getting away with this. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He ran his mouth and that's how he got caught. And he ran his mouth to someone who had the balls to speak up and say something to someone.

Of course, the wish is that he would have spoken up and said something to someone before Liam went through with it, obviously. But the thing is, this guy probably told way more people than just Anthony.

I am sure he did. And so this is the one guy who spoke up. Yeah. So I guess I shouldn't shit on him. Right. So then the police asked Anthony if he would work with them and try to get a confession from Liam on tape. Wire up, Anthony. Okay, let's go. And agreed to do it. And so on January 31st,

2017, he like set up like a secret recorder in his car and he went and picked up Liam and they sat in the car and he was like, you know, what's going on? You know know this sounds awfully close to like you know the story you told me and and it took no time liam fully confessed to it and he walked anthony through exactly what he had done that day he said that he and sarah had hung out that day that they'd gone and gotten lunch run some errands. And then when they got back to Sarah's house, as soon as they had like walked in her house, he'd choked her out, held her with his arm around her neck to the point that her feet were dangling off the floor.

Oh, my God. off the floor. Oh my god. He went on and on about how hard it was to kill her. How he didn't expect that. How he was able to hold her like that until she went unconscious but she wasn't dead yet.

And so he started the timer on his phone to see how long it would take him to actually kill her. Oh my god. And then he shoved something down her throat and held her nose until she died. And it took 30 minutes. He laughed about how he was really worried when he did this inside her house that her dog would defend her. But the dog just sat there and watched him

do it. The dog didn't do anything. He told Anthony that he had done that. He'd killed Sarah. He'd strangled her to death. And then he'd had to go to work. Oh my God. And so he took her body out the back of her house

hid it in the bushes behind her house in case someone happened to come home while he was at work and then he went to work fuck worked a full shift where'd he work he worked at some steakhouse as a server oh that's right oh my. Oh my god. Ew. Holy fuck. So there were people out there who had him as their server right after. Oh my god. This is so fucked up. Yeah. Got off from his server job. Came

back to the house. Parked down the street. Walked to the house. Snuck in the back. He knew about the security camera across the street. And so for six months before he did this, every time he was with Sarah, he watched

exactly how she backed out of her driveway so that he could mimic it perfectly. What the fuck? So he loaded her body into the passenger side of her own car, propped her up in the seat, and then backed out of the driveway exactly like she would have, and then drove her to the bridge. At that point, he had another friend, a man named Preston Taylor, who was also friends with Sarah, had been Sarah's prom date.

What? Mm-hmm. Help him. He was going to be his getaway driver because the plan was to drive Sarah to the bridge. Why? What does he get out of this? We'll get to the motive. Okay.

Okay. Keep your fucking pants on, as you say. In the wise words of Kristen Pitts. Genius words. Kristen Caruso. Mm genius words sorry kristen caruso genius kristen caruso beautiful yeah supermodel like sexy super sexy kristen caruso super sexy genius kristen caruso yeah keep your fucking pants okay yeah all right sounds like good advice so he had a walk he had had walkie talkies with him and his buddy Preston. And they drove to the bridge. Preston parked out of the way. And Liam drove up onto the bridge and he planned to throw her body off the bridge and then walk down and get in Preston's car. Well, he underestimated how difficult that would be. And he wasn't able to do it by himself.

And so he got her out of the car and he was trying to hoist her up over the edge of the bridge. But like the bridge is made so that you don't accidentally like fall fucking over it. So as he was doing this, three cars started to drive across the bridge. So he said, and this is exactly how he told Anthony on this confession, secret confession tape, is that somehow he mustered up superhuman strength and he threw Sarah's body back into the car and ducked down out of the way just as the three cars drove by. Wow, it's so weird to hear this story when he's placing himself in the hero's role.

Okay, yeah, good for him. So yeah, he got back in the car. So then he walkie-talkied to Preston and he's like, I can't do it by myself. I need you to get up here and help me. And so Preston came up on the bridge and helped him throw Sarah's body overboard. How long are you going to make me wait for the motive?

Oh, yeah. Over. Over. Overboard's not the right word. But we know what to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm also a super sexy supermodel genius. Well, I'd call you more cute. I'm just kidding. No, but how long are you going to make me

wait for the motive? Because I do not, I don't understand this at all. So, I'm going to tell you the motive right now. Okay. So, immediately after

they ditched Sarah's body, they went back to Sarah's house and they took a safe from her house. The motive here was money. Liam somehow had it in his head that Sarah had been left like a shit ton of money from her mom when her mom died so at some point Sarah had mentioned to him

that she had a box of cash that her mom left her and but it was probably just like I mean he had in his head that it was a hundred thousand dollars no you don't keep a box of a hundred thousand dollars so he had it in his head that she had a hundred thousand dollars cash in this safe and from the moment he learned that like six months prior to this he started planning planning this murder, how he would kill her, how he would make it look like a suicide, how he would carry it out. And he brought Preston in on the promise that he would get a cut of that money.

Oh, my God. So that very night they went back. They got the safe. They took it to Liam's house. So Liam and Preston also used to be roommates. They were not roommates anymore at this time. But they opened up the safe and they counted out the money. It was like $9,000.

Yeah. They killed her for $9,000. How'd they react? Liam was super upset. How'd they react? Liam was super upset. And he said, he told Anthony on this video that, like, most of the money, like, he's like, this money is, like, from the 80s. I don't even know what this money is. I don't even think I can take this money to the bank.

And some of it looks like the edges have been singed. And, like, this is, like, money that someone had, like, tucked away, like, squirreled away. And he thought the condition of it, he probably wouldn't even be able to spend it or take it to the bank, which isn't true. But that's what he says on this video. I mean, they can't tell you that money's not. If 51% of the bill is there, they have to accept it. How do you know that?

I don't know. That's just like one of those facts. I remember when I was a kid thinking my genius way to get rich was I would rip all my bills in half and then you have double the money there's also a department of the government

like the destroyed money department where you send your destroyed money in and they will give you new bills for it how do you know that? I don't know. I read it somewhere. That's so weird. But it takes a really long time because they have to verify exactly what's there. So, like, I remember this story about this little girl who shredded a bunch of money.

And so her parents had to send it in. And it took a really long time because they had to determine how much money was actually there. Yeah. Okay. But. Okay. But yeah, if your money gets destroyed, there is a department of the government that will replace it for you. What are the chances that anyone is listening to this and they're like, oh, thank God. That's what I'm going to do with the money. Anyway, I've hit my computer like five times here, so I've completely lost my place in my story.

So these guys were truly, they truly considered her a friend. Liam and Sarah were legitimately best friends. Best friends their whole lives. And then the second Liam found out that she had a box full of money, which somehow he believed to mean she had $100,000 in cash, that was all out the window. And the whole goal was to murder her, make it look like a suicide, and get that money. Preston and Sarah were not as close. They had been good friends in school. They'd met, I think, in high school.

And they'd been nothing more than friends. They went to prom as friends. Like, they were a little friend group, the three of them. But, yeah, no, they were friends. No, they weren't. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

So Anthony gets all of this on tape. He gets this full confession on tape. And he takes it to the police. And the next day, the police arrest Liam and Preston. Police weren't convinced that this was enough, to charge them with murder and so they sat down you know did like the interrogation thing with both liam and preston and liam was not talking he like lawyered up immediately he wouldn't answer any questions but preston confessed immediately, talked about all of his involvement, talked about everything he knew. And he agreed to basically plead guilty, take a deal and testify against Liam at trial.

So Preston pled guilty to disposing of a body, essentially. He also pled guilty to robbery, conspiracy to commit robbery, tampering with physical evidence, and two counts of hindering apprehension. And then he agreed to testify at the trial against Liam McIntasney. McIntasney. Liam McIntasney was charged with murder, felony murder, conspiracy to commit robbery, robbery, hindering apprehension, tampering with evidence, and disturbing human remains. He pled not guilty. Yeah, of course, because he'd committed the perfect crime, remember? That's right. Yeah, so how could he possibly get locked up for any of this? That's right. Yeah, so how could he possibly get locked up for any of this?

So, obviously, Sarah's body had not been recovered, but the prosecution still felt like this was a very strong case. Mm-hmm. And it really was because they had Liam's confession on tape that they were allowed to play in its entirety for the jury. Yeah, and they had Preston. Yes. And they had this other guy. And they had jury. Yeah, and they had Preston. Yes. And they had this other guy. And they had Anthony. Yes, that's exactly the case they put up. They played the confession.

They had Anthony talk about how he had obtained it, this whole story that Liam had told him. And then they had Preston get on the stand and talk about his involvement. And then it was time for Liam to put up his involvement. And then it was time for Liam to put up his defense. It was pretty simple. This was all just a big misunderstanding. That confession?

That wasn't a confession. Liam was explaining to Anthony the perfect movie plot for his next film. Give me a break. That was the legit defense that they put up. Oh, I believe it. That was legitimately what they argued in court.

That that was not a confession. That was simply just a very thorough telling of the movie plot that he'd come up with for Anthony, the amateur filmmaker. That just happened to match what that other guy had. I wish I was better with names. That other guy. Preston. Preston. Thank you.

Do you know what the defense was for what Preston said when Preston testified against him? Preston did the whole thing. No, Preston's a liar. Oh, OK. Well, none of it happened. Preston is a liar. OK. Obviously of it happened. Preston is a liar. Okay. Obviously.

My mistake. I don't think that I need to tell you that that defense did not work. Yeah. And Liam was found guilty on all seven counts. At his sentencing, Sarah's father, Michael Stern, delivered a victim impact statement in which he said, Since the day my daughter went missing, I've had horrific dreams and nightmares. I've been unable to get meaningful sleep since Sarah went missing. Many days I can't function at all.

I was devastated and numb from shock the day I learned from detectives that Sarah was murdered. The horrid act of what happened to her body haunts me every day. I will never be able to hug Sarah again. Liam McAtasney declined to make a statement at his sentencing. He never offered any form of apology or expressed any remorse of any kind. The judge sentenced him to life in prison without the possibility of parole. He was also sentenced to an additional 10 years for desecration of human remains. And that 10 years is set to run consecutively.

So it's after he. So he will never get out of prison. The defense argued for leniency and said this was his first. He never had any prior offenses. And so he did a big one. No, they should at the very least least they should just run concurrently. So don't put the 10 years on the end. Just have it run.

No, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Preston, while he did not murder Sarah, the judge said in court that he did everything but put his hands around her neck. He knew about the plan and he was a willing participant. At any point, he could have sought help to prevent it from happening. Yeah.

Preston was sentenced to 18 years in prison for his role. So Liam appealed his sentence, actually asked for a new trial because it came out after the trial that one of the jurors had posted something on Facebook about being a juror. No more than that, but that's technically against technically juror misconduct. And so he he requested a new trial on that basis. And the judge denied his motion, saying that there's too much evidence here. Yeah. That would not have made— Even with a new jury, this would not go any other way. Yeah.

And Sarah's body to date has never been recovered. I just keep wondering, like, what must have been going through her head. Yeah. So in his confession—and I didn't include this in head yeah so in his confession i didn't include this in here but in his confession his videotaped confession he said her last words were liam please yeah yeah yeah she was just with her best friend oh god fucking terrible yeah thanks a lot. You're welcome. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Oh, God.

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. Tell us about a kidnapping. Oh, you'd like that, wouldn't you? I would. Very much. I'm so excited that you don't know much about this. I don't know anything about it. You never looked into this one?

No. That shocks me. You're so obsessed with kidnapping. I know, I love kidnappers. Are you more into the kids being kidnapped? Okay, that's the thing I think I know, is that he's like an adult when he's kidnapped, right? He's 19. Yeah.

Yeah. They've aged out for you, huh? Oh, God! You creep. Oh, no! Okay, so huge shout out for the article Snatching Sinatra by Peter Gilstrap for the New Times Los Angeles Magazine, which I don't know that that's around anymore. This came out in 1998.

So it's not New Times anymore. And then, I mean, just a ton of sources from newspapers.com. Obviously, they did a ton of coverage on this, and it was very helpful. All right. Picture it. It's 1961, Westwood, California.

A rich, entitled douchebag named Barry Worthington Keenan was driving his 1964 Grand Chero to his mom's house. When all of a sudden, a mutt, the best kind of dog, ran onto the road. It stopped to sniff something. Worth it. And Barry slammed on the brakes. But the road was wet with rain and Barry crashed the car. He survived. The dog was fine. Oh, good I'm sorry. But Barry did get a back injury. You couldn't have cut out the dog stuff on this episode? I'm just messing with you. I'm totally messing with you. It's fine.

I was feeling really weird about it. Do you want to tell people? Yeah, so I had to put down my dog Barker on Monday this week. So he was 13 and a half years old. I'd had him for almost 13 years. He was a good little boy. He was very nervous. Oh, he was so sweet and tiny.

He was a real sweet little boy. But yeah, he had gotten old and he was, it was just time. It was really hard. The time came really fast. Yeah. Like he had been declining recently but then like it was just like that night it was

really bad and we just knew that it was time and so. Yeah. Yeah it was kind of unexpected. Yeah. It's tough. It's really tough. I handled it great when it happened. No it's awful. It's awful. It's awful.

It's awful. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. I'm making Kristen feel bad about bringing up dog stuff. That's my dog guy this week. I hated this story. It starts with a dog.

It's okay. And you know what? I could have told it without the dog now that I'm thinking about it. No, it's fine. I could have just said he had a back injury. Don't worry about it. No. Anyway.

No, I'm totally, I'm just being an asshole. It's totally fine. Well, you are an asshole. You were an asshole at the beginning of my story. No, I was great. I was wonderful. You're the problem here. So, you know, Barry was fine, but he had this back injury.

And as a result, he was prescribed painkillers. And do we know where this story is going? He became addicted to prescription pain medication. And even though he had a lot going for him, he was a student at UCLA. And at 21, he was the youngest member of the Los Angeles Stock Exchange. His life kind of went down the tubes. I know. So, you know, he was addicted to drugs, addicted to alcohol.

And for the first time in his life, he was broke. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was a real shame because he'd grown up super privileged and, you know, just a real shock to his sister. I'm sorry. I'm obviously feeling a certain way and I need to get it together. So he had to do something. So he kidnaps Frank Sinatra's son? Well, what else is he supposed to do?

Well, that's just a weird... Just be poor? Yeah. Ew. Or, you know, like, get a nice job, make a nice little nest egg. No. Just, you know. No, that sounds really boring, and, like, it might take a while.

Well, it does. Uh-huh. It does. Anyway, one day, he came up with a brilliant plan. He would kidnap Bob Hope's son. Oh, Bob Hope's son? Yeah, it was a wonderful idea. Maybe his best ever.

What about Bob Hope's daughter? Is this about to be a joke? Rose Nyland believed that she was Bob Hope's daughter. This is the second Golden Girls reference you've made in a row. You're welcome. But then Barry thought about it some more and he thought about all the good things that Bob Hope had done. You know, he was always entertaining the troops. Yeah, he was like big in the US. Oh, yeah. He seemed like such a nice guy. You know, in a way, it would be un-American to kidnap Bob Hope's son. So Barry came up with a new idea.

He'd kidnap Frank Sinatra's son. Because he was a real dick. Yeah. It's for real. Yeah, get a load of this. So Barry kind of knew the Sinatras. He'd gone to school with Frank's daughter, Nancy. And sometimes Frank Sinatra would, like, drive the carpool.

And, you know, Frank had always been very nice to Barry. I know. That's what it said. That doesn't make any sense, though. Nancy was in the carpool? She had boots that were made for walk-in oh my god i thought you didn't understand that his wife nancy and then they had a daughter named nancy i was gonna explain the whole thing and here you are setting me up for big jokes

she's got jokes everyone i also didn't really picture frank sinatra as the carpool type so i was going to explain that too boy am i a fool anyway frank sinatra had always been nice to barry but barry knew that frank sinatra had another side to him he could be a bully He was kind of a dick. So in that sense, it really wouldn't be morally wrong to kidnap his son. Okay. You know, he was one of those people who deserves to have their kid snatched. I don't think anybody deserves to have their kid snatched. No, no, you know the type. You know the type.

Kind of a dick. No. I do know lots of people who are kind of a dick, but I don't think any of them deserve to have their kids snatched. Weird. Also, I'm not a big fan of the term snatched. Why? Because it reminds you of vaginas? It sure does.

Would you rather me say deserve to have their kids vagina-ed? No. No, you wouldn't. So let's be happy with snatched. What if you said deserve to have their kids napped? That sounds weird. Yeah, I don't like that either. Okay.

All right. I'm just spitballing there. So, don't worry. Barry didn't rush into this kidnapping scheme half-cocked. He had a full cock complete in box. Barry was smart. He thought it through. He went to the library and he read about every kidnapping case he could find.

Well, then he should have learned that it's like a terrible crime and like punishable as like the worst offense. Not if you commit it perfectly. Okay. Oh, we got another guy who's thinking of falling off the perfect crime. We've got another perfect crime. Okay. Alright.

He read about kidnappings that went all the way back to biblical times. In every case, he asked himself questions. Where did the kidnappers go wrong? What could they have done better? Interestingly, he never asked himself, is this a terrible idea? But you know, who cares? Instead, he focused on the planning. This would be the most well-planned kidnapping ever. He made plans upon plans upon plans, and he compiled them all in a three-ring binder. Oh, shit.

Which obviously had an index and, of course, had a title page. Would you like to know the title of this kidnapping business plan? Uh, yes. The Plan of Operation. Disappointed? I am. Me too. And because he was but a man, he planned, but he also prayed.

He prayed to God. God, please help me with this kidnapping. For real? Yep. Yep. Hmm. You know, at the end of your kidnapping acceptance speech, you always got to thank the Lurd. Couldn't have done it without the Lurd.

Unfortunately, God was super busy because at this exact moment, two competing football teams were both praying for a victory and God had to figure out which one was going to win. There was just one slight issue with the plan of operation. There was just one slight issue with the plan of operation. You see, to make money, you have to spend money, and Barry had no money. So he reached out to his best friend, Dean Torrance. Oh. Are you familiar with Dean Torrance? No. Okay.

A lot of articles are like, yes, Dean Torrance. And I'm like, who the hell is that? Okay. A lot of articles are like, yes, Dean Torrance. And I'm like, who the hell is that? Okay. Do you remember this song that went, two girls for every boy? No, never heard of it. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Yeah, I know that song. Yeah, Surf City. Uh-huh.

Yeah. At this time in 1963, Dean Torrance was the shit. He was the hottest thing going. He was the Lance Bass of his day, Brandi. Of course he was. He and his singing partner, Jan Barry, were singing sensations. Oh, yeah. And the creepy little falsetto.

Yeah. Jan and Dean. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so you do know. Yes. Yeah. Jan and Dean. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so you do know. Yes. Yeah. Jan and Dean. Jan and Dean. Yes. Their photos were on magazine covers. All the girls were like, isn't he the most? And Barry was like, yeah, the most rich. So Barry went to Dean with this little three ring binder and he was like, Dean, I have this awesome idea. Please reserve all judgment until I've told you the whole plan.

I'm going to kidnap Frank Sinatra Jr. Okay. As you can see by the size of my binder, I've thought of everything. Now I can see you're a little horrified, but don't worry. You see, I'm calling it a kidnapping, but it's not really a kidnapping. I'm just going to take Frank Sinatra Jr. for a few hours, and I'm going to get a bunch of ransom money from Frank Sinatra Sr., and then I'm going to invest that money.

And in very little time, what? I mean, that by definition is a kidnapping. Well, I mean, if you're going to be all technical. But, I mean, listen definition is a kidnapping. Well, I mean if you're going to be all technical. But I mean, listen, get a load of this. So in very little time I'll make the money back and then some. So you'll get your money back.

I'll get some extra cash. And are you ready for the best part? Yeah. In the end, I will return the ransom money back to Frank Sinatra. And then God will have to forgive me because I will have made amends and restitution. Now, I bet you're wondering, what if Frank refuses to take the money back? What will you do then?

Won't God refuse to forgive you? Well, I've got a plan for that. I will simply ask Frank Sinatra what charity he likes best, and then I will donate the money to that charity. And you know, when you think about it, this is really a good thing that I'm doing, Think about it. This is really a good thing that I'm doing because the Sinatra family is a mess. Everyone knows that they're estranged and the relationship between Frank Sr. and Frank Jr. really isn't as strong as it could be. And I think this kidnapping will really draw everyone closer together. Oh, yeah, you do?

In a way, it's an act of charity is it yeah so how about you give me five grand what's the five grand for brandy kidnap kidnap you think kidnapping is a free thing you think there there aren't expenses? $5,000 in expenses? Yeah, adjusted for inflation, $45,000. What the fuck do you need that for? In your three-ring binder, do you have a breakdown of how you're going to be using those funds? Brandy, of course. What the hell are you talking about? It was all lined out in the three-ring binder.

Good Lord. you talking about? It was all lined out in a three ring binder. Good Lord. Dean was a little taken aback. He was like, but what if you get caught? Very good.

And Barry was like, nope, don't you worry. I'm going to have an ironclad alibi about that money. So Dean thought this was ridiculous, apparently. And according to Dean, he thought that Barry just wanted to borrow money from him and was too embarrassed to just come out and say, I'd like to borrow money. So Dean was like, here's 500 bucks. Now, 500 bucks wasn't quite the seed money that Barry needed.

No, he needed 5,000. Right, but you know, it was enough to get going. So with that, the plan of operation got underway. But first, Barry needed accomplices. So he reached out to an old high school friend named Joe Amsler. Joe was a tough guy. He was super into boxing. And even better, he needed money.

So Barry told Joe the plan, and he was like, I'm going to kidnap Frank Sinatra, and you're going to help me do it. And Joe thought it was cocoa bananas, but Barry was offering him a hundred bucks a week. And who was he to turn that kind of money down? Yeah, who was he? I just told you who he was. Then Barry reached out to his mom's ex-boyfriend, John Irwin. John was 42 and he'd been in the Navy and he was a tough guy. And Barry thought that John would be the perfect person to negotiate

with Frank Sinatra because Frank Sinatra was a bad mamma jamma and John Irving spoke the bad mamma jamma language. That's not his name. What? I thought I messed it up. Irwin! Oh gosh! I wondered why you

were looking at me like that. I thought you didn't approve of Mama Jamma. Here for the Mama Jamma, John Irving is a novelist. Oh, yes! Did he write Cider House Rules? Maybe. Anyway, he, I don't believe, is involved in this kidnapping plot. So John also thought this plan was stupid.

But, you know, Barry was offering him $100 a week. And who was he to turn that money down? Yeah. So with that, the Charlie's Angels of Kidnapping had come together. Lucy Liu, my girl Drew, Cam'ron D, and Destiny. Uh-uh-uh. Uh-uh. Now all they had to do was kidnap Frank

Sinatra Jr. Yeah. At this time, Frank was just starting out in his own singing career. He was? Yeah. Did you not know that? No! Yeah, so he kind of... Were his boots made for walking, too? Oh, my God.

Kiss my ass. No, he was a pretty good singer. Wow. And he looked quite a bit like his dad. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where, I mean, that name really helps. Well, of course. But at the same time, it's like everyone compares you to your dad.

I mean, you're not going to be as good as your dad. You're not Frank Sinatra. Exactly, Junior. So I watched a bunch of clips of him singing. I watched a clip of him and Nancy singing. And they were singing one of their dad's songs. That song that's like, saying something stupid like, I love you. It's a romantic song.

Okay. I'm not familiar with that tune. You would if it wasn't me singing it. So it's a romantic song. And they're brother and sister. And it's like and I was like

ew I mean they're so good and if I didn't know they were siblings I'd be like this is hot because they're like looking at each other. You know like they're clearly acting. But I mean, I was like, oh my God.

And then I went down to the comments section because I was like, I can't be the only one. And everyone else was like, so great. Oh, they're so great. Nobody else thought it was incestuous? I mean, if they did, they liked it, clearly. Because they didn't say it. they liked it clearly because they didn't say it. I found the one corner of YouTube where the comment section is really nice.

Anyway, I love the love of a brother and sister. Oh, yeah. And at one point he winks at her and someone was like, that wink was so adorable. It's like, ew! Saying something stupid like, I love you. I'm still not familiar with that song. So anyway, Frank was just starting out in his own singing career. He was doing a lot of traveling.

He'd do a gig here, do a gig there, here a gig, there a gig, everywhere a gig. And so the gang made a plan. They'd kidnap Frank Sinatra Jr. while he was in Phoenix performing at the state fair. The gang would hit him from a gig. Is that some dirty reference? No. Oh, okay. He said he was doing gigs.

We got a gang. Okay. What's a geez? I liked the geez. Sorry. Great. Good liked the cheese. Great. Good for you. Thank you. But something went wrong and they never got around to the kidnapping.

What? Yeah, something fell through with that, you know, so. Then came plan two electric boogaloo. Then came Plan 2 Electric Boogaloo. Frank Sinatra Jr. was performing in L.A. at the Ambassador Hotel, which was a beautiful place before it was demolished. Oh, okay. Yeah. Anyway, this was the perfect time to kidnap Jr.

Because Jr. had an apartment that was super close to Dean Torrance's place. It'd be super convenient. So they set a date, November 22nd, 1963. That was when they'd kidnap Frank Sinatra Jr. Late December, 1963? November 22nd. Is that December? Late December, 1963. Yeah, I was going to say, oh, what a night.

No, but is this date speaking to you at all? Say it one more time. November 22nd, 1963. It didn't speak to me either. No. Okay. Oh, yes. What?

Kennedy was assassinated. Sure is. So that was the day that they were going to kidnap French Nelson Jr. But then the president was shot. So the world shut down. So people were devastated. Yeah. Including the kidnappers.

Yes. And they were like, too soon. Now's not the time. Not the time or the place. And so it seemed like the plan of operation might fall apart. But Barry realized that they had one more shot. Frank Sinatra Jr. was going to perform one last time in America before he left to perform in Europe.

His final performance would be in December at Harrah's Lake Tahoe. Oh, very nice. Have you been? No. Oh. What? I hear it's lovely. No, you don't.

Yes, I do. My dad goes to Lake Tahoe all the time. Does he go to Hera's Lake Tahoe? Probably. See, I had looked this up. And I mean, the ratings aren't great for it. And I was like, man, Brandy's like really standing up for this place. I mean, the ratings aren't bad, but they're not like, okay, anyway.

My dad saw a bear in Lake Tahoe. Put that in your 10 pounds fun fact journal and smoke it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! North Lexus. Don Valley North Lexus has temporarily relocated around the corner to 7200 Victoria Park Avenue while they build a brand new dealership for you. The deals don't stop though. Get loyalty rates as low as 1.9 percent, delivery credits up to $1,500 and save up to $7,000 on select demonstrator models. Don Valleyeno, Don Valeno Collection.

A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. Barry didn't have much time to reassemble the gang. I mean, he's understood and he saw Barry and looked down. Okay. It was at the breakfast buffet. Barry didn't have much time to reassemble the gang. And much to his chagrin, the gang didn't really want to reassemble. Yeah, they were like, yeah, we're kind of over the whole kidnapping thing.

But, you know, Dean did give him another 500 bucks. Okay, well, he's still like $4,000 shy of the goal. If he had one of those goal thermometers. Wow. You're a real glass half empty. Which I bet he did in his three ring binder. He had one of those thermometers where you fill in. And he's like, Dean, no pressure, but here's where we are. Here's where we need to be.

So Joe and John were out. Not interested. But Joe had just gotten into a fight with his wife and and she told him, find a job or don't come home. And so Barry was like, hey, Joe, I hear there are a ton of great construction jobs in Lake Tahoe. We should go there. Brandy's dad says it's quite nice. Yeah, and he saw a bear there once. To the point that when Brandy just hears anything related to Lake Tahoe, she says, ooh, nice.

I hear it's beautiful. There's a Waffle House in Lake Tahoe. I'm sure there is. Do you think it's beautiful? I don't. I've been to a lot of Waffle Houses in my name. Oh, really? Never seen a beautiful one.

In your hoe face, you made all the guys take you there afterward, huh? Oh, really? Never seen a beautiful one. In your hoe face. You made all the guys take you there afterward, huh? Oh, God. So they got there, and there was a big sign that said Frank Sinatra Jr., you know, live in concert, right, for the kidnapping. I'm sure it was all on that. Yeah, all on the marquee. And it took Joe a minute, but he eventually realized that he had been duped. He himself had been kidnapped.

The kidnapper became the kidnappy. John was a little harder to pin down because, again, he thought the plan was stupid, and he'd just gotten this great gig painting a house. So, you know, that's that classic tale, can't do the kidnapping. I'm painting a house. You're painting a house. Yeah. So it seemed that this would all come down to Barry and Joe.

From their hotel room, Barry did some light stalking. You know, he doesn't call it that, but when you're monitoring someone's comings and goings, that's what we call stalking. And he figured out that Frank Sinatra Jr. was staying in room 417 of the hotel. Eventually, Barry and Joe decided that they should kidnap Frank on Sunday, December 8th, 1963. Why?

Because they were running low on money and hotels aren't cheap. And so on the day in question, they set their plan into motion. Barry went to a nearby liquor store and asked for an empty wine box. As soon as he got it, he filled it with pine cones. Why? His plan was to pretend to be a delivery man, and if anyone asked him questions, he'd say he was bringing holiday decorations to Frank Sinatra Jr.'s room. That's stupid. Also, pine cones are free.

Yeah. They're on the ground. Yeah. And he didn't have much money, so this was like, and he got the box for free. Yeah. See, this is why, if you're going to invest in someone's kidnapping plan, invest in his, because he's going to save money where he can. Okay. All right.

So that's what he did on December 8th. He went up to room 417 carrying the box of pine cones. Okay. And he had a gun tucked into his belt. He knocked on the door. Joe stayed back away and says, look out. And soon Frank belt. He knocked on the door. Joe stayed back away as his lookout. And soon Frank Sinatra Jr. answered the door. And like the start of any good porno, he was in his underwear and he was eating chicken.

Okay. Barry said, I've got a package for you. Oh. And Frank said, okay, put it over there. And so Barry came into the room and, oh shit, what's this? Frank wasn't alone. Of course he wasn't fucking alone!

He was eating chicken in his undies with this guy, John Foss, who played the trumpet in his band. I thought he was going to have a lady in there. Okay, I will say, I've noticed way back in the day people will say he was in his underwear. And I think what they mean is like he just had like a white shirt and pants on. Which, I mean, I hear underwear and that's not what I picture.

I picture a G-string made of licorice. That's what you picture? I think I'm not alone. I think we all think that. And, of course, over the G-string with licorice, you've got a white T on. Of course. Because you don't want it to be, like, too much. Well, and what if you drip something while you're eating?

I'm going to drip it onto your licorice G-string. I was going to say it would probably be better to drip it on your licorice g-string rather than a white tea, right? No! You're going to melt your licorice g-string right off. Well, what are you eating, lava? I don't think... I don't think the licorice g-string drink. I have a melting point.

I would have wagered that just the potty heat being betwixt the cheeks would do a number on it. Well, you must be getting your licorice cheese drinks from very cheap, unreputable sources. They're melting right into your crack. You got to go for something hardier. More of a beef jerky texture. You're saying more of a red vine?

You got to go Red Vine. So anyway, Barry walked in. He was a little overwhelmed by the undies and the chicken and this other extra dude. He put the box of pine cones down and he whipped out his gun. I mean, he tried to whip out his gun because it kind of got stuck in his jacket because it's not as easy as it looks in the movies, okay? He didn't practice that at all? I don't know. He didn't like see it from a mirror?

And do it a bunch of times? It wasn't in the three ring binder. Finally, he got the gun out and he pointed it at Frank's face and he cocked it. And Barry said, don't make any noise and nobody will get hurt. Both of you get down on the ground. Where's your money?

Turns out John Foss had no money and Frank had $20. No. By this point, Joe Ansler had barged into the room and he had a gun too. And Barry turned to Joe and said, Joe, get the money. And Joe was kind of like, what? Because they were supposed to be using code names. It had all been so clear in the three ring binder. Hey, I'm coming, Joe.

My name's Falcon. No, actually, I didn't include this part because I was so disappointed. I wanted more information. They were supposed to go by the names of former presidents. And I wanted to know which presidents. Millard. Millard Fillmore. Get the gun.

Yeah, that's a real one. What would be the lamest? Grover. Yeah, that's a real one. What would be the lamest? Grover. Yeah, Grover. Grover, Cleveland, and Millard Fillmore. That's who they went by. Yeah. All right.

Yeah, that's pretty bad. But Joe got Frank's 20 bucks and then Barry, like a coy boy, turned to Frank Sinatra and John Foss and he said, We're going to have to take one of you guys with us. You in the dark hair, you're going with us. You in the dark hair? Yeah. You in the dark hair? Yeah, it doesn't make sense, but that is a direct quote.

Okay. Was he insinuating that he thought the hair was fake? That's how it sounds to me. I'm sorry, that was a very loud slurp on the old water bottle. But I simply must stay hydrated. That's right. It's very important. It's how you keep that glowing skin.

I have a pimple on my neck. I don't think that was a necessary addition to my compliment about your skin. All I can think about is the fact that I've got a pimple on my neck. And you're telling me that I have glowing skin? You do have glowing skin. Yeah, glowing all... Okay. Yeah, thank you.

So, you know, he says, like, you in the dark hair. You in the dark hair. Because this was his first time speaking English. That's so weird. And with that, they used medical adhesive tape to tape up John. And before they left the room, Barry told John, don't move for 10 minutes. Weird thing to say. Why is that weird?

Did they run through any of this? Don't move for 10 minutes? That's how it just don't move? Well, he knows eventually he's going to move, but just as a courtesy, give us some time to get away. They had the getaway car down at the stairwell, and they needed about ten minutes.

Okay. He's not unreasonable for anything. Okay. I mean, what would you say? Don't fucking move. Ever? Ever. That's unrealistic.

Obviously, he's going to eventually move. All right. Don't move for 10 minutes. Yeah, I mean, I feel like that's reasonable. You said to me, don't move ever. I would move. But don't move for 10 minutes. I'd be like, well, I can do that. I'm not going to like it.

Not going to like it. You interrupted my chicken. He's eating chicken too? Well, he didn't eat chicken in his underwear and not offer his bandmates some chicken. He wasn't an animal. Can you imagine if you came over to my house and I was eating chicken and you just had to sit there silently and watch me eat? No.

I'm there in my licorice cheese drink. And I'm worried. With a bucket of KFC. and i'm worried what see this is the start of a porno right here you're like, oh, no, the gravy. Anyway, before this gets too hot for podcasting, I have to move it to some other platform. Are there porn podcasts? There have to be, right? How would they do that, though? Well, just like, it'd be like just a hot audio book, basically.

You know, you get some, I don't know, 36-year-old Midwestern woman with a real sexy voice, and you get her to, you know, I don't know, try some French or something. Beignet. Croissant. Buffet. You know, sexy stuff. Malouze, I'll say, Sfraya. sexy stuff.

Malouze, I'll say, Sfraya. Everyone, in the most recent bonus episode, I covered a French case that I was horribly offensive, but didn't mean to. People were like, did you know that you can look up on Google Translate how to pronounce it? And I know because I did, and it was still terrible. And I'm sorry to everyone. Bonjour. Okay.

So, don't move for ten minutes. Barry and Joe fled the scene with Frank Sinatra Jr., who was in his dark hair. In his dark hair. As they say. But before they even got to the car, Barry was like, oh gosh, I feel like we are forgetting something. We've forgotten a step in the plan? Mm-hmm. You know what they forgot?

What? One of their guns. They'd left it in the hotel room. For fuck's sake. So Barry turned back around, went up to the room, even though he'd specifically told John not to move for 10 minutes. Get a load of this. John was already up taking off the medical tape.

I fucking told you. That's why you've got gotta put an indefinite time limit on it, because he's eventually gonna get up. But if you tell him ten minutes, he's gonna get up after two minutes. If you give a mouse a muffin, he's gonna want a glass of milk to go with it. That's not the title of the book. If you give a mouse a cookie,

if you give a moose a muffin. If you give a pig a pancake, we have all of them. If you give a pig a pancake, we have all of them. If you give a dog a donut. I mean, how many of these books does one need? I mean, I think they're kind of beating a dead horse. That's not one of them.

If you give a dead horse a grave. If you beat a dead horse, you'll probably move on to humans. If you move on to humans, you'll probably go after a whole group of people. This is the story of Hitler. All right. Anyway. So Barry was like, hey, follow rules much? You know, he was just pissed.

And he grabbed the other gun. He was like, OK. Originally rules much? You know, he was just pissed. And he grabbed the other gun. He was like, okay. Originally, I told you 10 minutes. I figure, you know, maybe five minutes have passed by this point. So I'm going to leave. But you, for real this time, you better not move for five minutes. Really? Yes.

He didn't, like, pistol whip him? Doesn't appear to have done that. that well he wasn't that mad then then barry ran back to the car and he and joe blindfolded frank and put him in the back seat all the while pretending that they didn't know he was frank sinatra jr okay but frank told them he was frank sinatra jr personally um I think he told them his name. Because they'd be like, oh, fuck, and we'd let him go? No. Oh, or like, do you know who I am?

No. Oh. Okay. Why don't I just let you finish? That's a novel concept. Well, I just don't believe for one second that he really believed that they didn't know who he was. Because, first of all, you're going to commit a robbery. You go to a random room.

Yeah. You get $20. And then you're like, oh, you have to come with us. And he's legit one of the most famous men at that point in Hollywood. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I just don't. I think he kind of knew. Yeah.

Also, these guys don't seem. I mean, I know they had the three ring binder, but I can't imagine they were playing it that cool. So anyway, he's like, I'm Frank Sinatra Jr. Okay. Are you devastated that you didn't guess why? Yeah. Yeah, you've got that look on your face like, fuck. Fuck, I didn't guess it.

I think this means you're like really dumb. How dare you say that? Brandy, you're very smart. Standardized tests have proved this. What is wrong with you? You've got this chip on your shoulder okay so anyway they were driving along and at this point barry got paranoid that the police would be looking for them and he was right to be paranoid because john foss the bastard hadn't waited the full five minutes. You're kidding me.

No, I am not. I am shocked to learn this. Yep. Instead, he immediately called the police. And once everyone found out that Frank Sinatra Jr. had been kidnapped, the whole world went nuts. This was such a big deal that the FBI put a pause on their important work surveilling and harassing Martin Luther King Jr. And they began working on this case. Wow.

Yeah. Just a little reminder about what the FBI was up to at this time. Yes. Did you know they were up to that? Yes. Uh-huh. Bastards. Anyway, Barry knew that this would be big news,

so he told Frank, hey, if we get stopped, you just need to act like we're BFFs road tripping. And according to Barry, this was when Frank became a co-conspirator. Oh, did he? Because he happily went along with this plan. He was just thrilled. It was just a great time for him. What? Or he was just doing what time for him. What? Or he was just doing what he thought he needed to do to not get killed. No, that's not. No.

No, they were. They became BFFs. When you have someone at gunpoint and they agree to do what you say, it's because they're happy to be there and they want to do it. Brandy, I don't know why you're struggling with this. Okay. there and they want to do it. Brandy, I don't know why you're struggling with this. Okay. So Barry instructed Frank to take some sleeping pills and drink

some whiskey and Frank did as he was told. Pretty soon a blizzard descended and just as they were coming down a mountain they saw it. A roadblock. From the police?

Not like a boulder in the road or anything. Oh, I guess, yeah, it could have been more clear. You see, what had happened was Frank Sinatra Jr. had been kidnapped. And so his dad was worried. The police were worried.

There was concern on all sides. And so people decided to take action because of the concern that sometimes arises when someone is whisked away at gunpoint. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. I'm sorry I didn't clarify that. Thank you for making it so clear.

So Barry stopped the car. And he was like, we can't go through that roadblock. They're going to be looking for three guys. And here we are, three guys. So he said, Joe, get out of the car fast. You get to L.A. as best you can. What? Just fucking get to L.A. on foot, my man?

Uh-huh. Yeah. This is like a 400-mile trip. So Joe did. And, you know, it was like the police were, like, not that far away. So Joe got out of the car, ran as fast as he could through this blizzard into the woods. And he ran so fast. And the visibility was so bad that he ran into a tree.

No. Okay. He ran into a fence post. He ran into it so hard he knocked himself out cold. It was just bam. Oh, my gosh. They didn't see that, though, because, again, you know, the flurries are a flurrin. Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm. I don't think they're flurries if it's a blizzard. Okay, they're blizzarding. Uh-huh. I think I figured out why I know the hair is in Lake Tahoe. Why? What happened? Because on the latest season of Hell's Kitchen.

Oh, my God. Young guns. They were competing to become the executive chef at Gordon Ramsay Steakhouse in Lake Tahoe, which I believe is inside the Harrah's Casino. Very good. Very good. Very good. So you are quite familiar. I'm super familiar with it.

Okay, great. Glad to hear it. Thank you. I can't remember who won. In fact, I accused David of watching the final episode of Alley. And then he told me what happened, and I was like, oh, yeah, I did see that. And then he told me what happened and I was like, oh yeah, I did see that. Get ready to experience an all new Don Valley

North Lexus. Don Valley North Lexus has temporarily relocated around the corner to 7200 Victoria Park Avenue while they build a brand new dealership for you. The deals don't stop though. Get loyalty rates as low as 1.9%, delivery credits up to $1,500,

and save up to $7,000 on select demonstrator models. At Don Valley North, Don Valley North Collection. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. Okay. Have you ever secretly watched ahead in a show? I have not. Not much of a badass, are you? No.

It's not right. I did start a show that we'd previously said we'd watch together. And then we never started it. And so I started it on my own. And David hasn't learned of this yet. He's about to find out. He's about to find out. He's about to find out. So, you know, Joe's knocked out cold.

Yeah, he ran into a fence post because it's a blizzard out and he's like, just, you know, fucking figure out a way to get back to L.A., my man. Personally, I love the idea of someone running full force into a fence post. But, you know, by this point,

the car had been spotted by officers. It looked super sketchy that they just, like, pulled over. So an officer approached them. And Barry, who was cool as a fence post in a blizzard, was like, well, it seems to be the problem, officer. And he was, like, messing with his snow chains or something to make it look like, oh, yeah, there's a reason I pulled over. And the officer was like, oh, we're just looking for people. And he kind of looked at Barry and Frank. And then he got back in his patrol car and drove back down to the roadblock.

By this point, Frank turned to Barry and he was like, hey, we can't just leave your friend out here. It's really cold. He might die out here. Like, yeah. Frank knows what's up. He does. And Barry was like, okay. So they started calling Joe's name. And Joe finally's up. He does. And Barry was like, okay. So they started calling Joe's name.

And Joe finally got up. He came to. He starts kind of stumbling up. He's like, oh, I ran into a fence post. And Barry was like, okay, you know, you're going to have to get into the trunk because the officers have seen us. They think we're just two people. So hop in the trunk. Surely they're not going to notice somebody get into the trunk because the officers have seen us. They think we're just two people. So hop in the trunk. Surely they're not going to notice somebody climbing in the trunk right now.

Apparently not. Okay. So Joe hopped in the trunk. They drove to the checkpoint. And since they'd already been checked, they didn't really get questioned much. And they went on their merry way. Wow. Yeah.

You know, we had a picture of Frank Sinatra Jr. that they were comparing to people in cars. Here's the thing. I think Barry is very smart and very manipulative. And he smooth talked his way out of this. Yeah. Hmm. At this point, they turned on the radio and the DJ said that Frank Sinatra Jr. had been kidnapped and then the DJ played a Frank Sinatra song

which feels both wildly appropriate and inappropriate at the same time. I mean, doesn't it? Yes, it does. According to Barry, the three guys had a blast on their road trip to the safe house. They were, quote,

one big happy family. I'm sure they were. Where one member of the family. I'm such a good point. Hey, no one was traumatized. It was fun, laughs, good times. Okay. Uh-huh.

Finally, they arrived at a house in Los Angeles that Barry had rented as their little kidnapping headquarters. But once they were in the house, things got weird. Here's how it went, according to Barry. What? It was like Frank didn't even want to be there. Okay. Yes. So he wouldn't play games with us he was a real dick about the whole thing

he was like please don't point that gun at me no so he says he broke the bad news to frank this isn't a robbery this is a kidnapping it's been a kidnapping from the very beginning. We've known you were Frank Sinatra Jr. the whole time. And Frank was pissed, not because they'd kidnapped him, but because they'd lied to him. Because, you know, they were all such good friends. Yeah, okay. And, you know, because secrets, secrets are no fun.

Secrets, secrets hurt someone. That's right. And Barry told Frank, look, let's make this fast and painless. Just give me your dad's phone number. We'll get this over with. And Frank said no. Wow. He refused to cooperate.

He told them, you'll have to shoot me. Wow. I know. I know. So Barry tried to call his bluff. He said, well, if I'm not, I'm going to shoot you. And Joe was like, yes, he will do it. He's crazy.

And Frank was like, go ahead ahead shoot me mhm barry had not expected this he was a little unsure of what to do next so he called his mom's ex-boyfriend john and he explained the situation and john was like whoa you actually did it? Oh, Lord. And Barry was like, yes. Now I need you to come over and scare the shit out of Frank Sinatra Jr. So he'll give us his dad's phone number. And John was like, no way. I'm not coming over. And Barry was like, hey, hey, you knew about the crime.

You knew this was going to happen. The way I see it, you turn us in or you help out and you get a ton of money as a thank you. And John was like, OK, I'll take the money and the thank you. What? They're not going to get a ton of money, though. They're not going to get a ton of money from Frank Sinatra. No. Why?

Why wouldn't they get a ton of money? Because Frank Sinatra is just going to have the police. He's not going to pay out a ransom. Why not? I don't know. Because Frank Sinatra's just going to have the police, like, he's not going to pay out a ransom. Why not? I don't know. He's just going to go to the police or the mob or something, right? Oh, just because he's Italian, he's going to go to the mob.

Not what I meant. Oh, just because he had known mob ties, he's going to go to the mob. Fun fact, the mob did offer to help with that. I thought that they did. Frank Sinatra reportedly turned them down. Oh, did he? So I kind of raised my eyebrow at this because this is Barry's retelling. And I kind of think John didn't have to be strong-armed into it. Yeah, that's quite true.

So John was on his way over to the safe house, and Barry went over to Frank, and he was like, Hey, Frank, here's the truth. Here's the truth. Me and Joe, we're just low-level guys. We're just nice guys. But this guy who's coming over, he's a bad mamma jamma. You're going to want to cooperate with

him. Sure enough, John showed up and he said to Frank, okay, you gotta give me the number so we can wrap this up. And Frank said, shoot me, beat me up, whatever. I'm not giving you a

phone number. I'm not scared of you guys. Yeah. Frank did not waver. He was held captive for two days. He never gave them his dad's phone number. Wow. But at some point, the kidnappers found a phone number. Frank Sinatra was staying at the Mapes Hotel in Reno, which was

like a very cool historic hotel until it was demolished. So Barry went to the library and got a Reno phone book and he found a Chevron station near the hotel. And John called Frank Sinatra Sr. and said, your boy is okay. You can talk to him, but get to this Chevron station in 15 minutes. And once you're there, you'll receive a phone call from us. They did this because they figured if they communicated with Frank Sinatra mainly through, like, last-minute random pay phones, the FBI wouldn't have enough time to, like, you know, tap that pay phone. Or that ass.

I mean, you never know. I guess I don't. That was actually a good plan. I love these awkward pauses where, like, I'm thinking of saying the next inappropriate thing, and then I'm like, no. No. Grace Kelly of podcasting. Wouldn't talk about the fbi fantasizing about frank sinatra and licorice undies and therefore being quite ready to go

quickly no stop too much that's right too much okay so anyway this was actually a good plan this yeah payphone stuff um but it turns out to be an, fudge stripe moment because the kidnappers thought they'd picked a gas station that was super close to Frank Sinatra's hotel. But it was actually like 40 minutes from the hotel. Oh, my gosh. Well, I mean, it's tough because, you know, you get the phone books and it's God hadn't invented Google yet. It's just real tough. But nonetheless, Frank Sinatra and an FBI agent hopped in a car and hauled ass to the Chevron station. And the kidnappers, who had no idea that they'd made an oops fudge stripes, waited 15 minutes and they called the Chevron station.

And the gas station attendant answered the phone. And John said, hi, is Frank Sinatra there? Well, it sounds like a fucking prank call. Yep. Exactly. Can I speak to bend over, please? So the guy, the worker was like, no, Frank Sinatra's not here. And then he hung up.

Yes, of course he did. A few minutes later, John called again. Hi, is Frank Sinatra there? And the worker was like, listen, buddy, I'm working on a car. I don't have time to play around. Don't call again. He hung up. Oh, no.

John called a third time. Hi, is Frank Sinatra there? And the worker said, listen, pal, Mr. Sinatra is not in the habit of taking his calls at this Chevron station. He hung up. Not even a minute later, a car screeches, pulls up to this Chevron station. It's fucking Frank Sinatra. Frank Sinatra jumps out, grabs the worker by the shirt,

and he said, I'm Frank Sinatra. Have I had any calls? He's just like frantic. Luckily, John called a fourth time and Frank Sinatra answered the phone like panting out of breath the whole bit. And Frank said, what do you want? Money? And John said, of course. And Frank said, how much?

I'll give you a million dollars if you let my son go. Adjusted for inflation. That's nine million dollars. Wow. What do you think John said? John wants more money than that. No. He doesn't?

He wants less. What? He's like, nice try, Frank. I will take $500,000. He said, well, we don't need a million dollars.

I'll tell you how much we need tomorrow. You take a million dollars? It's so weird, right? What? But, you know, they were going to have to pay it all back. Yeah. Remember. Oh, that's right.

And so you didn't want to have to pay back a million dollars. It's kind of like, you know, when the bank says we will qualify you for a home, you know, worth this X amount. It's like, well, I don't necessarily want to go up to the max. Yes. You know, that's exactly what this is. Okay. Because he's considering it a loan. You know.

You know, the type of loan where you kidnap someone for it. So I got my mortgage. so i got my mortgage that lady from the bank didn't kidnap my loan agent but i got some great terms worth it she had a great time she had a great time we're best friends now we don't talk much now that the gun's not on her but but you know. We have friendship bracelets. And they're those light-up kinds, so, you know, she can touch it, and then mine lights up, so I know she's thinking of me. You just invented something. No, that's not a thing.

That's not a thing. That's not a thing. It's a real thing. Wow. Yeah, me and my loan agent have them together. Friendship bracelets have come a long way, baby. They sure have. All right.

Well, so then they let him talk to Junior. They talked a little. And, you know, then they hang up. As all this was going down, Barry was out taking care of business.

TCB? Taking care of business. He went to his BFF, Dean, and he was like, I did it! I kidnapped Frank Sinatra Jr. Could I have another 500 bucks, please? Kidnapping sure is expensive. And Dean said, sure. And they drove to the bank and he got him the 500 bucks.

For the record, Dean was not happy about any of this. Is that what he said later? They were like, how come you kept funding this kidnapping? Right. Well, I didn't want to do it. Yeah, Dean can kiss my ass. What about Jan? You got a problem with Jan?

Leave Jan out of this. Jan was a singing sensation. Okay? Jan was not involved. I realized Jan was a man from my research. Anyway, then Barry drove back to Lake Tahoe in a rental car and got a hotel room and made a big show of skiing. You know, for the gram. And for the alibi.

Skiing? Yeah. He couldn't have been involved in this kidnapping because he was skiing in Lake Tahoe at the time. Jesus. What? Okay, I didn't get that at all. get that at all. And for the record, Barry was having a great time because he was doing drugs

and drinking Coca-Cola, which is a good time no matter how you slice it. That's right. But then, get a load of this. He got back to the safe house and freaking John and Joe were like, this isn't cool anymore. We need to get

this over with. We need to get this over with. We need to get the ransom money and be done. Rude. It was stupid because Barry could clearly see that while he'd been gone, Joe and Frank Sinatra Jr.

had been having a great time. They'd really bonded because they discovered that they liked some of the same movies. Had they? Yeah of the same movies. Had they? Yeah. Uh-huh. So anytime Barry was like,

I like a movie. Joe. This is Joe. I'm sorry. Anytime Joe was like, oh, I really loved Babes in Toyland. And then Frank Sinatra Jr. was like, that is my favorite movie! What a coincidence. I also enjoy that.

Yeah. My goodness. We have so much in common. Perhaps you shouldn't shoot me in the face. Perhaps you should let me go. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So, you know, Joe and John were just being obnoxious about this whole thing.

But that's the thing about being a member of Charlie's Angels. Sometimes the other angels are little bitches. Uh-huh. So that night they called Frank Sinatra Sr. And they were like, okay, the ransom is $240,000. He offered a million and they took $240,000? These guys are terrible negotiators. Yes, they are.

So adjusted for inflation, that's about $2.1 million. And they're like, here's how it's going to go down. First, you go to this payphone, and we'll give you instructions to get to another payphone. And from there, we'll give you instructions to another payphone, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. On and on we go. So that's what they did. They made the calls, and the FBI kind of ran all over town with a black satchel full of money. kind of ran all over town with a black satchel full of money.

And on the final call, the kidnappers told the FBI to drop the $240,000 between two school buses that were parked at a gas station on Sunset Boulevard. Okay. What? Not where you would have chosen? I don't think so. Where would you choose? I don't know. You're acting like that's such a bad place. I think it's weird. busy yeah yeah i i think it

seems a little risky too don't you do like in a park somewhere you know see i don't know i feel like this is the riskiest part almost more risky than kidnapping someone i agree because they're you know they're going to be eyes on you. How do you possibly get? Hmm. Oof. We need a three-ring binder for this. We do. So Joe and Barry took off to get the money, leaving John to kind of supervise Frank Sinatra Jr. at the safe house. The plan was that Barry would drive and Joe would hop out and grab the money and, you know, Barry would kind of circle the block.

So Barry let Joe out to get the money. But while Barry was driving around the block, Joe started looking around and he was like, Oh my God. Oh my God. There are undercover FBI agents everywhere. He's like, I can't just walk up to this money and take it. Of course. What do you think was going to fucking happen?

So you know what he did? He hopped a fence this time. He didn't run into the fence post. And he just ran home. Meanwhile, Barry circled back to the gas station. He saw the black satchel still between the two school buses, didn't see Joe. And Barry was sweating bullets because all of a sudden there were all these taxis, all these ice cream trucks. And even though ice cream sounded awesome, he knew it was a trick. He knew it was an FBI van.

Meanwhile, back at the safe house, John was feeling ironically unsafe. So even though they didn't have the money yet, he called Frank Sinatra and was like, I'm dropping your son off at an overpass on the 405. And that's what he did. He blindfolded Frank Sinatra Jr. and dropped him off on this overpass. But Frank Sinatra Jr. was so freaked out that this was some kind of scheme by the kidnappers because he hadn't actually been able to see them. Yeah. So he hid in some bushes on the overpass and he found this big rock and he put it in his pocket.

His plan was to use it to protect himself in case they came back. He hid so well that when Frank Sinatra was driving up and down the road, he didn't see him. Oh, my gosh. Eventually, Frank Sinatra Jr., I want to say he he walked two miles to Bel Air. And at some point he ran into a security guard named George Jones. And he was like, hey, I'm Frank Sinatra Jr. I've been kidnapped. Will you please drive me to my mom's house? did. And the thing was, Frank Sinatra Jr. got in the trunk of this guy's car because he knew, you know, there's going to be press all around my mom's house. I don't want to have this big moment in front of the media. Meanwhile, Barry was still at the drop spot, kind of eyeballing this money. And even though he knew that the FBI was all over the place, he went for it.

He threw the black satchel in his car and hauled ass to the safe house. And when he got there, he was shocked to see that Frank Sinatra Jr. was gone and so was John. And of course Joe was still nowhere to be found. So Barry was like, well shit! So he wiped down the place for prints and he burned the three ring binder

and then he took the money and he ran. Oh my gosh! And the FBI discovered the safe house like minutes after he left. Really? Mm-hmm. Oh, my gosh. It had all been a tremendous success. No, it hadn't.

Yes, it had. The Sinatra family was overjoyed. Frank Sinatra Sr. threw a massive party for his son and invited the media, which sounds terrible. I want to say it's that they threw it that night. Well, that's a ridiculous plan. The 60s were a stupid time for mental health. I'm sure he's not traumatized.

Let's throw a party. Yeah, let's throw a party. So is the money marked and they're going to catch Barry when he goes to buy stuff with it? Oh, that's what you think is going to happen? I don't know what's going to happen. That's my guess. So they had photographed the money. Okay. So, at this point, the kidnappers

had reunited, and they were thrilled. They'd done it. Yeah, it feels so good. They laid all the cash out on the floor and danced on it. They lit cigarettes with it. Then when that got them. They did? Yes.

What is the deal with that? I think this is like a, I'm convinced it's something only a man would do. I would never. That is nuts to me. Yes! Look at me! And you know they're using hundreds, because I mean it's not a flex if you use a

one dollar bill. No, it's not. Then, when that got old, they threw wads of bills at each other. What? They had a wad fight? Brandy, that sounds disgusting. They had a money

fight, which, I mean, money is filthy. Yeah. Gross. Yeah. Anyway. Were they in their undies? Yeah, which in the 50s means you're fully clothed. Dean Torrance got his share of the cash, though he later returned 50s means you're fully clothed.

Dean Torrance got his share of the cash, though he later returned it, which makes him a saint. No, I think he was just trying to, like, absolve himself. So it all turned out great. Except John decided that he would hide out for a while in New Orleans. But on his way there, he stopped to visit his brother in San Diego. And John told his brother everything.

Oh, good. And then John took a nap. And then John's brother called the police while he was taking a nap. Get a load of this. You know who he really called? Directly? The FBI? Yeah.

The mayor? The mayor called the FBI? The mayor was not involved. This guy just straight up called the FBI office in San Diego. And he was like, yeah, you need to come get my brother. He was one of the guys who kidnapped Frank Sinatra Jr. Oh my gosh. So, of course, it didn't take long before Joe and Barry were also arrested.

Would you turn Kyla in? Kyla comes over. Oh, my God. And she's like, I'm exhausted. I kidnapped Frank Sinatra Jr. I'd be like, he's dead. I kidnapped Ariana Grande. I just got the ransom.

Everything's fine. I need a nap. Would you call the FBI? Would you call Mayor Quentin Lucas while she was napping and turn her in? No. I would call a defense attorney. I would also be like, oh, man, Ariana Grande, did you, like, make her sing? Is she as pretty in person?

What was her hair like? Did she have that really cool ponytail? That's what I would ask. And then I'd be like, okay, but hey, hey, hey, bad thing you did here. It's not cool. Now tell me more about Ariana Grande, but then. What did she say about Pete Davidson? I would want to know a lot.

And then I would call a defense attorney for Kyla. And Kyla would be like, yeah, we're basically best friends. Ariana Grande and I are. So that's cool. I might get jealous. And then I'd be like, you know what? I'm going to call the FBI on you. I'm going to specifically take you to the Kansas City

Kansas police because I know they're so terrible. Oh, God. What about you? What if Casey said she kidnapped... Let's see, who'd she kidnap? Joey Fatone. Oh! She kidnapped Joey Fatone? She kidnapped Joey Fatone.

Oh, man! And now she's napping at your place. What do you do? Yeah, I'd call my dad. What? I'd call my dad. What? I would. I'd call my dad. I'd be like, Dad, Casey kidnapped Joey Fatone.

And he'd be like, okay, we're calling a lawyer. Who's Joey Fatone? No, he 100% knows who Joey Fatone is. He's a huge fan. Big fan of Joey Fatone. My mistake. No, yeah. And then my dad would call a lawyer. Wow.

And then. You're kind of a little baby, aren't you? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. While my dad was calling a lawyer, I then called my mom. Would you ask questions about Joey Fatone before you initiated the call to your dad? Yeah. What would you ask?

I'd ask him questions about Leah Spence. I want to know if she, if like, how, are they like really good friends still? I think they are because I see their TikToks together. So you'd ask him questions you already knew the answer to. Yeah. I'd make him do the dances with me. Although I'm not there. He's like, no, you're going to have to shoot me, beat me up. I don't care. I'm not there. He's like, I'm not with Joe. You're going to have to shoot me.

Beat me up. I don't care. I'm not scared of you. I'm not doing the bye bye bye dance. And then I'd be like, fine, let's do the tearing up my heart dance. And you just keep going

until eventually you find one that he's like, you know what? I did like that choreo. I did like that one. Yeah. Anyway, should I get back to this?

Yes. So, Joe, Barry, and and john they're all arrested in like no time yeah they hadn't even had a chance to spend the money um they were cut so quickly that frank sinatra got like all of his money back yeah the only money that was missing was some cash that Barry gave to his ex-wife, which she had immediately used to go buy new furniture. And when Frank Sinatra heard that, he said, Christ, let her keep the furniture. So with that, it was trial time. Oh, my gosh. And that lady had an amazing story about how Frank Sinatra bought her living room furniture. say that's a pretty classy move it is because yeah i guess you would just be like all right i got my kid back like keep the first keep the fucking couch lady don't you wish you

knew exactly what she got yes yes i do so it was trial time and it was a media circus. Barry, John and Joe were all put on trial together. Interestingly, Dean Torrance got off scot-free, which makes my eye twitch. But anyway. Yeah. What the fuck? He knew about it the whole time he knew about it before it happened. He knew about it as it was currently going on.

He funded it. He funded it. Yeah, that's effed up. Uh-huh. The prosecution had a great case because the kidnappers had been caught. They'd confessed. They had the money. Also, investigators discovered that fucking Barry had written a full confession and put it in a safe deposit box.

Oh, my gosh. Bragged about it being the perfect crime. This is this is the problem with the perfect crime people. They always say they're so proud that they've come up with the perfect crime that they can't shut up about it. Uh huh. Mm hmm. That's true. Sorry. Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm. That's true. Anyway, in opening arguments, the prosecution referred to the kidnapping as, quote, a vicious crime pulled by rank amateurs moved by greed. The prosecution contended that Barry Keenan had been the mastermind of the plot. But the defense, okay, what do you think the defense is going to be? Oh, gosh. i don't know this is a doozy tell me the real mastermind of this plot was frank sinatra jr yep yep he'd done it for the publicity. Oh my gosh!

The whole thing had been a hoax to boost his career. Frank Sinatra Jr. and Frank Sinatra Sr. had both been in on it the whole time. The whole time? The whole time. They wanted this to happen, and they wanted it because it would be such great publicity. I don't think so. I don't either. So the prosecution set about proving their case while also trying to disprove this notion that it had all been a hoax. Frank Sinatra Jr. was called to the stand and he testified that no, this had not been a hoax. He had been terrified for his life.

He said that, yes, he had cooperated with his kidnappers, but he did that in an effort to save his life. This was like a wild concept, apparently. Wow. Because it's so fun to blame victims. Yeah. Like, why did you willingly go to the car with them? Did you hear the part where they had a gun to my head? Yeah. Like, why did you willingly go to the car with them? Mm. Did you hear the part where they had a gun

to my head? Yeah. Okay, anyway. Frank Sinatra Sr. and some other side characters like Teresa Gray and her husband,

Dennis Gray, were called to the stand. So Teresa had been a high school friend of Joe and Barry's, and they'd stayed at her place after the kidnapping.

Mm. She and her husband saw Barry and Joe dance on the ransom money. She said at one point they asked her if she had a Monopoly board game because they wanted to play Monopoly, but with real money. That's stupid. Also, why are they doing that at somebody else's house? Because they were kind of hiding out. Yeah, that's super weird. You know what's the weirdest part?

What? She didn't have a Monopoly game. Who doesn't have a Monopoly? Even people who don't like Monopoly have Monopoly. Everybody owns one Monopoly game. Not this lady. The one time somebody wanted to play Monopoly and they couldn't because. That's really weird.

By the way, so this, in this trial part, I'm pulling a lot from newspapers.com. Oh, Lord Almighty, the newspaper articles. First of all, the main thing

you need to know about Teresa is that she's young and pretty. Uh-huh. Okay. Mm-hmm. But that doesn't

surprise me at all. No, I mean, all of these old-timey newspaper articles, the men just get to stand alone. It's just like a man's name. Maybe his occupation is mentioned. A woman, always the looks.

Completely relevant. Anyway, so they told Teresa the whole story of the kidnapping, and she relayed that for the court. And, of course, the prosecution was like, cool. When they told you all about this kidnapping, did they mention that it was all a hoax perpetrated by the Sinatras? No. No. And Teresa was like, no, they never said that. Teresa's husband, Dennis, said that the kidnappers told them that they'd thrown a gun out the window when they drove to the safe house in Los Angeles.

And later, an FBI agent testified that they'd found the gun. Heartthrob slash spineless idiot Dean Torrance also testified he told the court that he'd never had any knowledge of the kidnapping. No, no, no knowledge. OK. He just lent his friend some money because he knew his friend was broke. And if helping out a friend is wrong, then lock me up. Okay, Dean. Except helping out a friend is not against the law.

But you know what is? Perjury. Oh, yeah. So after a mid-afternoon recess one day, Prosecutor Thomas Sheridan went up to Judge William East and he was like, hey, Judge, Dean would like to get back on the stand. He has something he'd like to share with the class. And Dean

got up there and said, I'm afraid I made up stories. And he admitted that he had Sorry, I didn't mean, I knew I saw you taking a drink I was like, oh, bad Tommy. He admitted that he had

known everything about the kidnapping. Oops. Terribly sorry. And the prosecution was like, cool. You knew everything. Did you know that it was a hoax? And he's like, no. No one ever said it was a hoax? And he's like, no, no one ever said it was a hoax.

Prosecution called a metric shit ton of FBI agents to the stand. And they also read aloud the confessions of Joe and John and Barry. Because, again, I can't stress this enough. Their case was awesome. When the defense took over, they called Frank Sinatra Jr. as their first witness. When the defense took over, they called Frank Sinatra Jr. as their first witness. Because, you know, he'd been in on the whole thing for the publicity that he needed so badly. And they asked him.

Why would they call him? So, he had been called by the prosecution, so they could call him. And, I mean, their whole case is like, you did this. Yeah, but isn't he going to say, no, I didn't do this? No, I was not involved in any way? Mm-hmm. I don't get this play. So the one thing, well, let me tell you. Okay, okay, sorry.

No, it's okay. Although I'll never forgive you. So they're like, you know, this is a- This is a bit dramatic, but okay. I will forgive you in 10 minutes. OK. OK. So Frank's like, I've never had a publicity agent in my life.

You know, basically like, hey, when your name is Frank Sinatra Jr., you don't need publicity. Frank was only questioned for like 20 minutes. And I don't know that they asked him this question, but I'm going to guess they did based on something I saw from their opening arguments. I am going to guess that they asked him if his revenue had gone up on ticket sales after the kidnapping, because I bet it did. Yeah, I'm sure it did. And so that would be their argument for this.

Yeah. Okay. I'm sure it did. And so that would be their argument for this. Yeah. Okay. Eventually, when Frank came off the stand and the jury was excused, the judge turned to the defense team and said, you have abused the process of the court in bringing this witness here.

Yeah. Shame on you, you stupid dicks. Yeah. Was what the judge said. I don't think that's a direct quote. I think that was crossing the line, personally. I wouldn't have used such vulgar language. Never. No.

As the Grace Kelly of podcasting. But, you know, other people aren't as classy as me, Brandi, and that's a shame. Okay? But the defense held firm. This had all been a hoax orchestrated by a guy with the last name West. No follow-up questions, please. Who the fuck is that? The guy who helped arrange this for the Sinatras, you know.

He's the guy who should be on trial. Oh, Mr. West. Yes. Uh-huh. Was he working with Mr. East? Okay. I knew you were going to say some dumb shit. Yeah, Brandy, he was.

Okay. Anyway, Barry testified that he had been working with the Sinatra family on this kidnapping. Or did he testify? Another source said he didn't testify. Anyway, who's to know? Who's to know? he testify? Another source said he didn't testify. Anyway, who's to know?

Who's to know? Joe said that his confession had been fake so everybody just forget about it and Frank Sinatra Jr. could have escaped anytime he wanted to. Did he say my confession was as fake as this whole kidnapping? That would have been

a great thing to say. A real missed opportunity. It is. I don't think Joe was ever the same after that fence post got a hold of him. So, you know, Joe's like, hey, he could have escaped any time he wanted to. This was not a real kidnapping. And the prosecution was like, interesting. Frank could have escaped any time. Did Frank know that? Ande had to be like well like no i guess not really not because we had a

gun yeah uh-huh and we never told him he could leave whenever jesus in closing arguments the prosecution said frank senior is one of our finest entertainment personalities. Sinatra Jr., with a father like that, doesn't need this kind of publicity. Charles Couch, who was Barry's defense attorney, told the jury that Frank Sinatra Jr. hadn't acted like a victim of kidnapping. He said he consented to this taking, this affair. Mr. Sinatra was like a puppet. Why didn't he scream out? Because he didn't care. He was enjoying himself. He was on a joyride. That is stupid. It's horribly offensive. Yeah. Horribly offensive. Wow.

Before they went into deliberation, the judge turned to the jury and was like, hey, just a quick reminder, a little heads up. There's no direct evidence that Frank Sinatra Jr. was involved in his own kidnapping. So don't screw this up. The jury deliberated and found Barry, Joe and John all guilty. Barry and Joe got the maximum sentence, 75 years plus life. And John got less time because he was acquitted on a charge of taking part in the actual abduction because, you know, he hadn't. you know he hadn't yeah but interestingly because they got the maximum sentence they were qualified for psychiatric observation before they started serving their sentences so they were taken to the great state of missouri oh to the medical center for federal prisoners in springfield and while

they were there the staff determined that barry i believe and jo too, had been insane at the time of the kidnapping. So their sentences got reduced to 25 years. Then they all appealed. And when they did, a judge noticed a technical error on some paperwork from the medical center. And as a result, Barry's sentence was reduced to 12 years. What? to 12 years. What? Ultimately,

Joe and John only served three and a half years for this crime. What? And Barry only served four and a half. What the fuck?

Yeah. This is so fucked up. Yeah. Okay. So I want to pause here. Because this made me think so much about that case I covered. It was for a Patreon bonus episode. This is all a plug.

It's a genius plug. No, it was a kidnapping. Do you remember the one where the guy buried a woman alive? Barbara Mackey. Yes. Oh, good job. Dang, you're good. Okay.

And because she didn't have, like, a physical injury on her, and because she spoke stoically in front of the jury, people just assumed she was okay. There was no harm done to her yes yeah it was like at this weird time when we didn't think like oh that would be that would have a terrible effect on you psychologically for the rest of your fucking life absolutely yeah and to me it just seems like no one took into account the psychological effect that this had to have had on Frank Sinatra Jr. Yeah.

Because there was so much emphasis on he went along with everything. Yeah. It's like, of fucking course he went along with it. Of course he did. And they brought up things like how he said, he said something to the kidnappers like, I hope you guys get away with this. And that's brought up as like, well, look what he said. I'd be saying the same fucking thing.

Absolutely you would. You would say whatever it took. To make the kidnappers believe you're on their side. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. That's infuriating. Yeah, it drives me nuts.

I hate it. That's infuriating. Yeah, it drives me nuts. I hate it. When Barry got out of prison, his friends threw a party and raised $2,500 for him. Cool. Adjusted for inflation, almost 20 grand. Awesome.

This drives me fucking nuts. Yeah. Because this is a real problem for people when they get out of prison, they have no money. Yeah. This guy got out so fucking early. He would, I mean, oh, you have all the privilege in the world. And then he gets this. Yeah. And then his good friend Dean leased a car for him.

Cool. And from there, Barry got into real estate. for him. Cool. And from there, Barry got into real estate. Which, I am shocked you're able to get into real estate with this kind of record, but I guess whatever. Okay.

Don't worry, he did great. By 1983, he was worth $17 million. Holy shit. Mm-hmm. What the fuck? A few years after that, he had a near-death experience, and he joined the 12-step program, and these days he's more successful than ever. Oh, my gosh. Joe and John kind of faded into obscurity.

Yeah. So this is, oh, God, I hate this. So this is, oh, God, I hate this. It's hard to know exactly how Frank Sinatra Jr. was impacted by the kidnapping because he never spoke publicly about it ever. Yeah. I think that's another thing, especially at this time period. And, you know, Frank Sinatra, I mean, he was kind of a badass. So, like, yeah, you're not going to get on the stand and cry.

You're not going to give an emotional interview. Yeah. And clearly, I guess society doesn't think it's that wrong because these guys are out there living their lives. Wow. For the rest of his life, he was plagued with ridiculous conspiracy theories that he'd been in on this whole thing. That's fucking terrible. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Barry has since come out and said he regrets. I mean, OK. He has said he regrets going along with that lie, spreading that lie. He claims it was, you know, a lie invented by the other attorneys. Yeah, nothing's ever your fault. Yeah, of course. So according to Barry, as the years went on, he and Frank were both rich, successful guys who sometimes traveled in the same social circles and they'd see each other at parties and, you know, Frank would never speak to him. He'd just nod. So I read that story in one place. And, you know, Frank would never speak to him. He'd just nod.

So I read that story in one place. And I read another story somewhere else that, like, one time someone he was with was a big Frank Sinatra Jr. fan. And she wanted to go to his concert. And Barry felt a little awkward about it. But went anyway and, oops, got great tickets and got into a meet and greet. But Frank Sinatra didn't recognize him. What? Yeah. That's. Hmm. and greet but frank sinatra didn't recognize him what yeah that's oh my gosh the story was told like a cutesy little story and i just know cutesy no i see you i know what you're doing there yeah you're showing your control. Absolutely. Wow.

Ready for things to get worse. Oh, my gosh. So basically everything I read to you before the trial came from that article, Snatching Sinatra by Peter Gilstrap. It had been an article where Barry Keenan told his side of the story basically uninterrupted. It was one of the conditions of this article. I want to tell my side of the story. And he's clearly a great storyteller. It was one of the conditions of this article. I want to tell my side of the story. Yeah. And he's clearly a great storyteller.

It was very interesting. And when people in Hollywood read it, they were like, well, we have to buy this story. This needs to be a movie. And so there was a bidding war for the story. And finally, Columbia Pictures won. And they offered Barry $1.5 million for the story. One source said that Joe and John were also going to get a pretty large cut of this. So, you know, the good news just kept it coming. Not only would Barry get to kidnap someone and serve, like, no time, he'd profit from selling his bullshit story.

Yeah. Which I call it bullshit because there are just elements of it that don't read true to me. And I think a lot of it was trying to absolve the other guys. So I'm kind of skeptical that Joe didn't want to get involved with the Lake Tahoe thing, that he had to lie. He also said Joe's gun was unloaded. Maybe not. I don't know. the Lake Tahoe thing that he had to lie. He also said Joe's gun was unloaded. Yeah. Maybe not. I don't know.

He went on about how Frank Sinatra Jr. had been having this great time. Don't buy it. Yeah. If I'm having a great time and you drop me off,

I don't go find a rock in case you come back. Yeah, exactly. Although I do that whenever you drop me off anywhere. You stop it. But you know, there was one person who wasn't thrilled for Barry and all his success.

It was Frank Sinatra Jr. And California had a law against felons profiting from stories of their crimes. It's Son of Sam statute. Yeah. So Frank Sinatra Jr. sued. He was like, you can't profit from my trauma, you giant douche. Yeah. So this went to trial and Barry's lawyers argued that his First Amendment rights were being violated.

Also, he committed this kidnapping like 20 years before the law went into effect. So everyone, you know, shut up about it. So this actually turned into a major legal battle. There were appeals, and it went to the California Supreme Court. And the ACLU was on Barry Keenan's side, and victim support groups were on Frank Sinatra's side, and it was really messy. An article that came out in Esquire this year said that Frank Sinatra Jr. won the legal battle. And he definitely won in the trial court and he won in appellate court.

But I don't know. It feels hollow to me because from what I saw, the California Supreme Court later struck down the Son of Sam statute on free speech grounds. And when Frank Sinatra Jr. asked the court to revive the law to stop Barry Keenan from profiting off his story, the court declined to intervene. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. In 1998, the year that big article came out, Frank Sinatra Sr. died.

He had sold about 150 million records. He died an icon. But his son's kidnapping had taken a toll on him. During the kidnapping, he got paranoid that he wouldn't have enough change for a payphone to communicate with the kidnappers. And as a result, he began carrying a roll of dimes on him at all times. He did that every day for the rest of his life. Oh, my gosh. And when his family buried him, they buried him with a roll of dimes in his pocket.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Oh, I've got. Yeah. Yeah. In another interview, looking back on this crime, Barry talked about all the good that had come from the kidnapping. What fucking good? This, I mean, his life turned out great? No, no, that would be so much less offensive.

Here's what he said. Virtually everything I had outlined in my plan of operation in terms of how the Sinatras would be affected had worked. Father and son were hugging. Divorced parents were reunited in the moment. And the public now viewed Sinatra in a sympathetic light rather than as a hoodlum. They had a big celebration party that night. It couldn't have worked better if they had paid me to do it, which, by the way, they hadn't. Fuck right off. Yes. That was your grand plan?

I hate this. Yeah. I hate this so much. So here's what I'm struggling with. So there's apparently a podcast about this. Apparently John Stamos was like at a party and Dean was there. And Dean was like

hey wild story did you know that one time my best friend kidnapped Frank Sinatra Jr. You know I've got a manuscript on it. He wrote it in prison and you know and so John Stamos decided to do a podcast about this. It's a 10 episode podcast.

I didn't listen to it. Yeah. Not to say that I won't. But yeah. So I read some articles where John was talking about, you know, it's a look at mental health and all that stuff. And a lot of interviews with Barry. I get the vibe that it's kind of sympathetic to him. To Barry?

Yeah. Which, not to say, like, you know, someone has mental health issues. It's not that I want to be unsympathetic, but he got, like, no time for this. Yeah. And I don't think he's for this. Yeah. And I don't think he's really sorry. Yeah. And I don't think he's telling the full truth. One of the things John Stamos said was like,

he has this amazing memory. He can recall everything. Yeah, because he's making it up. That's a thank you. Yeah. Thank you. That's exactly what I think. Yeah.

Yeah, someone has an amazing memory about shit that happened a million years ago. It's because they're think. Yeah. Yeah. Someone has an amazing memory about shit that happened a million years ago. It's because they're full of shit. Yeah. I just, ugh. A lot of these articles, I think it's a sign of the times. I think it's also a gender thing and all that. But there was not enough sympathy for Frank Sinatra Jr.

No. There was not enough. Like, there was not enough sympathy for Frank Sinatra Jr. No. There was not enough, no thought of, like, how traumatic this was for him. Yeah. Totally agree. Yeah. Anyway.

So in 2006, for a profile about his life, Frank Sinatra Jr. said, I was never a success, never had a hit movie or a hit TV show or a hit record. I just had visions of doing the best quality of music. Now there is a place for me because Frank Sinatra is dead. They want me to play the music. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be noticed. The only satisfaction is that I do what I do well. That's the only lawful satisfaction. Wow. Yeah.

That's really sad. I know. He died in 2016. Wow. He was 72. Wow. And that's the story of the kidnapping of Frank Sinatra Jr. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, I didn't know any of that. I found it so infuriating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I hate that Barry came out of this unscathed. Mm-hmm. I hate that Dean came out of it unscathed. Yeah.

And that now he's like, hey, wacky story. What, you mean this wacky story about the time we ruined this guy's fucking life? Yeah. And traumatized this whole fucking family? Yeah. To the point that his dad carried around a roll of dimes every day for the rest of his life. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that to me is such a clear sign of the trauma. Yeah. That this family carried around. Absolutely. And how the hell did Dean get nothing? That is some bullshit. Holy shit. And it doesn't, I mean, I don't think it had, I mean, it didn't really, it didn't ruin Barry's reputation, clearly.

No. Didn't ruin his reputation. No. Weird story about Barry. So, you know, obviously he became super successful, as I said. He and his wife were like really good friends with George W. and Laura Bush. Yeah. One of the articles said, and I thought this made perfect sense to me, basically the more money he got, kind of the less that crime mattered.

And so he was just, you know, in these elite social circles. He lived in Texas. He had a place in L.A. he had a place somewhere else i mean yeah oh wow hate it yeah do you think i'm being too hard on him no okay i don't at all he fucking kidnapped someone maybe i need to listen to the podcast because you know there's talk of like he'd heard I don't at all. He fucking kidnapped someone. Maybe I need to listen to the podcast because, you know, there's talk of like he'd heard voices all his life. And it's not I want to be clear. It's not that I'm unsympathetic to to any kind of mental illness, but I just I don't think he's he was ever really sorry. And I don't think he was punished.

Oh, another thing. I'm going to say this just because people will probably be like, he has donated a lot of money to charitable causes. What I say to that is that is standard for multi-million millionaires in this country you don't pay your fair share of taxes and so you get into philanthropy yeah it's a tax write-off yeah and you get to sit at the fancy luncheons and blah blah yeah i don't give a shit when multi-millionaires and billionaires donate a small portion of their money to charity. That's just part of the deal with being super rich. So,

thank you, but I don't give a shit. Anyway. You're so fired up! I'm so mad. I'm just repeating myself now. I hate him. Yeah. Yeah, I hate him. Oh, shit.

Sorry, that got very heavy because I got very mad. I just, you know, I feel like I can handle it a little when it's clear, you know, we all feel bad for the victim. In this one, I don't think people feel bad for him. And he spent his whole fucking life after that having these douchebags with these conspiracy theories like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You were in on it the whole time. Anyway, we should take questions from our Discord. We absolutely should. How do you get in the Discord?

How do you get in the Discord? Oh, I'm sorry. All you have to do to get in our Discord is join the Patreon at the $5 level. It gets you in there. It's like a 90s style chat room. People are chitty chatting the day away. It's a good time.

If anybody asks you your age, sex, or location, please tell your mom. Or Tim Pounce. Oh my gosh, my mom's in here. No, it's not. It's your dad. It is? Oh, it's... Oh my gosh, it has to be my dad. It is. It's your dad. Okay, my gosh. My mom's in here. No, it's not. It's your dad. It is? Oh, it's. Oh, my gosh.

It has to be my dad. It's your dad. Okay. My dad posing as my mom. Yeah. It's your dad. Says, when will the great and powerful DP be back on the podcast? I love that guy.

He said, hey, everyone. DP here. I stole Sharae Ray's phone again. Thanks for all of your support to convince Kristen to let me back in the Discord and back on the podcast. Jesus Christ. It's probably a lost cause, but keep up the good work. Does he imagine himself to be the victim of something? Good Lord.

We will have DP back on the podcast. He will be back. You know, the man is always on the go. That's a funny thing. He's never here. He's in Utah right now. Yeah. And he's acting like, oh, I'm not allowed to be on the podcast.

Yes. Oh, that silly man. Oh, okay. I'm glad somebody asked this. Okay. Mrs. Peanut Buster asks, Brandy, in the latest bonus episode, you mentioned Picard from Star Trek. Are you a big Star Trek fan? I don't think you've mentioned it before.

And if so, what are your favorite series and characters? No. So I'm not a watched Star Trek, the one with Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard. And I loved two characters. Data, who was like a robot but looked like a human. And then maybe this guy's name was Tommy. No, I don't remember his name. It wasn't Tommy because Tommy's the guy from, fuck, what's that show?

Movie. This Old House. Spoof movie kind of about Star Trek. Rugrats. Galaxy Quest. Anyway. No, don't just say shit. No, I liked the guy.

I specifically said two TV shows that both have characters named Tommy in them. What did you say? I said, This Old House, Tom Silva, and I said Rugrats, Tommy Pickles. No, the guy who wore the laser beam thing across his eyes. The headband across his eyes. Casey and I used to put headbands across our eyes and pretend to be that guy from Star Trek. I don't know his name, though. It was the law.

Was he played by LeVar Burton? I think so. Is that real life? I think so. I was about to say that but then I was like, what if I'm wrong? What if that's like

a really weird error? We can't both be that wrong, right? Things happen before. It's your bad. So no, I don't watch Star Trek now. I only was around it, you know,

because my dad watched it when I was a kid. And that's where that knowledge comes from. Oh, the original Mandelflorn says my American mother-in-law used to make some kind of goo with pineapple, cool whip, pistachio and jello for Thanksgiving. Is this a thing people make? Yes. Sure is. It sounds made up. It sounds like this has to be just your mother-in-law.

Nope. Unfortunately, this is an epidemic. This is a real thing. This is a real thing. This is a real thing. Oh, okay. Hey, Cole says, settle an argument for me. My husband loves to do the whole, let's go around the table one by one and say what we're grateful for at Thanksgiving. I absolutely hate it and feel like I'm back in school having to introduce myself.

These are our friends. Can we have an organic conversation about gratitude? What do you think? No, I hate it. I don't like it. I love it. You do? Yes. I love it. I hate it. I stand by it.

You know what? Okay. You go first. I think it puts people on the spot and it's inauthentic. Unauthentic? Unauthentic. Inauthentic. Yeah.

Which one's right? Inauthentic. Okay. I mean, yeah, it does put people on the spot, but it's a conversation starter. Gets you going. All right. One year. Norm's family i know i've told you about this this is terrible we were asked to do the high point and the low point for our years

now you want to talk about awkward that's that terrible. It is. That's terrible. So maybe it's that we did that and that was terrible. Yeah. Why would you ever want to bring up your low point? Well, see, here's the thing. I think, like, I think when parents do that with kids, I think it's really good to be like, let's talk about your low point of your day. So you're just kind of learning about what's going on with them.

I think that can be great. But like a holiday dinner where you're bringing together people who like don't always see each other. And then it's like, what's the worst thing that happened to you this year? I mean, that could be really awkward. Maybe it's just like, that was terrible. So to me, the idea of just being like, what are you grateful for? I'm like, that's wonderful. So in conclusion, your husband is right.

Junk Science wants to know, do you call it stuffing or dressing? I maintain that those are two separate things. Stuffing and dressing are the exact same thing. No, they're two different things. Explain yourself. Dressing is what's shoved up in the bird. Isn't stuffing just what's stuffed up in the bird? No, stuffing is made on a stovetop and it comes out of a box.

I'm sorry. I just slurped into the microphone like a hooligan. I apologize. Like this isn't our 197th episode we're recording. I'm very sorry, everyone. Plus 29 bonus episodes. I'm new to this. The people want to know, Kristen.

Also, I also hate age gaps wants to know specifically. Kristen, will you ever cover the Free Britney movement now that Britney Spears conservatorship is over? I might. Yeah, they said it seems like a Kristen case. I think it totally seems like a Kristen case. Oh, my God. Have I told the story on the podcast about my most brilliant moment ever? No.

Oh, my God. Obviously I told the story on the podcast about my most brilliant moment ever? No. Oh, my God. I was, you know, obviously, you all know me well. I watch all the Britney shit. Yeah. Okay. So I was in my office watching one of those Britney Spears documentaries. There were like 12,000 of them. I was watching it.

And it was in that time period where she had dark hair. Yeah. So Norm walks in. And he goes, who's that? And I said, it's Britney, bitch. I've never been prouder of myself in my whole life.

It was perfect. And the fact that only he was in there and he didn't get that that was a Britney Spears I mean, it was just, talk about a waste. Are you proud of me for that? I'm very proud of you for that.

It's perfect. I'm still proud. It happened weeks ago. Superficial Glowworm wants to know what's your favorite non-alcoholic holiday drink. I'm pregnant for the holidays and I need some delicious mocktail alternatives. What was that drink we made? We did. So we. I have a favorite holiday beverage.

What is it? Oh, yeah. It's your Sierra Mist, right? Your cranberry Sierra Mist. Diet Cranberry Sierra Mist. Diet Sierra Mist Cranberry Splash. Can't find it anywhere. So we made a version of that on a bonus video one time.

We just did Diet Sierra Mist and diet cranberry cocktail. And it was delicious. It was, but you know. It's not the same. It's not quite the same. Yeah. But that's mine, too. Yeah.

Yeah, it's delicious. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, now I'm sad. Please don't ask such emotional questions. Please don't ask such emotional questions. Oh, my gosh. Your dad's just living it up in here.

Oh, no. He said, Costco is in negotiations with my agent to scrap the Kirkland brand and go with DP's signature line on all products. Oh, no. People, please do not feed the DP. Okay, I do not understand this question. Okay. Temple of Hyman wants to know, Kristen, what do you and Norm get at Costco? My husband and I just got a membership, and I'm curious what a household of two would buy there.

Everything. Temple of Hyman. Come on. The frozen food, you know, a couple of two. You know, there's never too many. Portion it out. That's right. Also, alcohol. Yeah.

We don't have those at our Costco in Kansas. Well, because of the tight butt holes. Yeah, Kansas has the tightest butt holes on the planet. You know what I did the other day? Because I forgot I was in tight butt hole Kansas. I got some hard seltzers from the Aldi in Kansas.

And I had one and I was like, is this a regular seltzer? What is this? 5% alcohol because Kansas has a tight button. Anyway, I don't know why I keep talking about Costco. We are not sponsored, but there are many things you can get at Costco. There are many things. Also, the clothing

selection, lovely. There's some great home decor options. They got rugs. They got, you know, towels. They got all kinds of stuff. Also, search those miscellaneous aisles. You'll find some good stuff in there. I just got a knife set. Love it. Yeah.

I got, um. Oh, my God. Did I tell you about my big Tupperware things for soup? No, but I know how much you love making a big pot of soups oh my god i i was thrilled they were like 11 and i got three of them oh my gosh yeah you can store three soups yeah so i guess you could say my life's pretty good yeah it sounds like it. Karen, like the meme, says, what word did you mispronounce as a child and no one told you? My son says fingers instead of fingers, and I love it.

So this is kind of along those lines, but not exactly. So we were talking about how London's like starting to talk more and stuff like that. And she just, you know, she just says, like, one word. Yeah. Stuff for now. Except yesterday, I swear she said sounds good to me. Anyway, that's a story for another time. We can't possibly tell you the whole story. There's no time for that story.

London was in front of a blackboard. She was giving a presentation. She was solving those unsolvable equations. And Brandy said, I got to go. And Brandy said, sounds good. Yeah. Because London didn't need Brandy there for it. That's right.

Anyway, I was talking to my mom about how I don't talk baby talk to her. And my mom goes, yes, you do. I was like, no, I don't. And she said, yes, you call them her fingies. And I said, that is not exclusive to London. I call them my own fingies. I say fingie instead of finger. You say you want some chicken fingies.

I do. I say fingies all the time. My mom apparently thought I only did that to London. No. Nope. Nope. Nope. Sure don't. Fortunately it's an epidemic. The original Mandelflorn wants to know do you have any party tricks?

Like I can stick a matchbox in my mouth. Boy do I have party tricks that involve my mouth. Isn't a matchbox pretty small, or am I not thinking of the right thing? Maybe they're doing like a full-size matchbox. Yeah, I was picturing like a little matchbox, too. You just hit the mic.

I was picturing like a little matchbox. I don't think that's impressive. I could fit like five of those in my mouth. Not to shit on you, the original Mandelflorn. I can fit my whole fist in my mouth. I can touch my tongue to my nose.

And I can blow bubbles. Ew. Stop. No. I'm not gonna do it. Okay. I'm not gonna do it. That would be impolite. Yeah. What party tricks do you have? I light up a room. With your farts.

No. With my beauty and my personality. I walk into a room and everyone cheers. Oh, okay. As you know. My mistake. Should we move on to Supreme Court induction? Well, that's a thing. I discovered.

Oh, no. She's going to be a shortlist today. You just want to do three people? Yeah. We're not going to do none. All right. It's a to be a short list today. You just want to do three people? Yeah. We're not going to do none. All right. Wait. It's a very special induction for three people.

Everyone, here's the deal. I do these Supreme Court inductions. I do up the little thingy. I do them way ahead, and then I'm like, now I'll never have to do them for weeks, and I won't check. Normally, I always check right in the nick of time. This week, I did not. It didn't happen.

So we've just got three people on here, and here we go. We're reading their favorite cookies. Stephanie Black. My favorite cookies are brownies. No. She goes on to say that I looked it up on Wikipedia, and it says they're cookies. I don't believe you.

And I believe that if it does say that on Wikipedia, that you doctored the entry, Stephanie Black. A brownie is not a cookie is not a brownie. It's not a cookie. But it is delicious. Oh, yeah. It's yummy. But we didn't ask what your favorite dessert is.

It's basically a cookie. It's not. It's a whole different thing. All right. Stone category. Sorry, Stephanie. Madison Woodward. Classic chocolate chip.

Sarah Harp. Oatmeal chocolate chip. Welcome to the Supreme Court! I'm so sorry. Only three people. It's a very special induction day. It is. Stephanie, Madison, and Sarah.

I almost said, oh my God, Sarah. You've called poor Sarah, sorry. So anyway, this is not special. This is embarrassing. Sorry, Sarah Harp, whose name is not Shart. Boy, thanks, Sarah, for supporting us.

This is how I repay you. Well, I think we better wrap up this podcast it's really time to wrap that up thank you for all of your support if you're looking for other ways to support us

please find us on social media we're on Facebook Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to Apple Podcasts, leave us a five-star rating and review and then be sure to join us

next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcasts! For the record, you're all sharts in my eyes. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia.

So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from Snatching Sinatra by Peter Gilstrap for the New Times Los Angeles Magazine, 1998, as well as a ton of articles from newspapers.com. I got my info from ChillingCrimes.com, the 2020 episode with friends like these, articles for Asbury Park Press, and NBC New York News. For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.