Let's Go To Court! - 207: An Abduction & a Surgeon

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

The out-of-work supermodels really struggled with this episode. Brandi’s case gave her nightmares and Kristin’s case is infuriatingly stupid. Brandi starts us off with the story of Brianna Denison, who was home from college, hanging out with friends when she was abducted from her friend’s house. Investigators were able to get touch DNA off of a doorknob, which led them to other unsolved crimes in the area. Then Kristin tells us about Dr. David Stephens, who had an affair with a young nurse named Stephanie Kennedy. When David’s wife, Karen, discovered the affair, she was beside herself. The couple argued. He got in his car to leave, and she grabbed a gun. She ran after him, holding the gun to her head. When she tripped, the gun went off. Karen died a few months later. About a year after that, David and Stephanie wed. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The Doctor’s Wife” episode of American Justice “The Other Woman” episode of 48 Hours In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Night Brianna Vanished” episode Dateline “College Student Staying With Friends Mysteriously Disappears From Their Living Room Couch” by Jill Sederstrom, oxygen.com “The Murder of Brianna Denison” by Gary C. King, trutv.com “Biela’s fate now in hands of jury” by Martha Bellisle, Reno Gazette-Journal “Being Brianna’s Brother” by Siobhan McAndrew, Reno Gazette-Journal YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 30+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

Ready? Okay. How funky is your chicken? How loose is your vagina? No! One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts!

I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll be talking about a surgeon. And I'll be talking about an abduction Oh, you got a bad one for us? I got a nightmare about this case Is that why you had that dream? No, different dream

I didn't tell you about the dream because then I was going to have to tell you about the case And I couldn't tell you about the case over lunch because I was going to have to tell you about the case right now on the podcast So it's a slippery slope to tell you about the case and I couldn't tell you about the case over lunch because I was going to have to tell you about the case right now on the podcast. So it's a slippery slope. Remember when we used to be young, dumb podcasters and we would get excited about a case and be like, let me tell you about it

and then, you know, yeah. We can talk about other things. It's a real slippery nipple. Isn't that what you had for lunch? Isn't that your cocktail? That's disgusting. I had the D cup cocktail. And you're just jealous

because you couldn't order it. I did not have it. You could have had the triple A. You have to have D cups to order it as it turns out. And they do check. They do.

They do. It was awkward for the rest of us in the restroom when they measured Kristen's tits, but... Maybe for you. Everyone else was turned on. That's all I said. I had a basil smash. It was delicious.

Yeah. It was good lunch. It was. We ate a lot of food, everybody. We're just going to tell you these stories. You know what's funny is we both stopped halfway through our meals because we're like, we got to put in some good work after this. We don't want to be too full. And we're both too full.

Well, it's not our fault that someone put dessert in front of us. Dessert on the table. After we ordered it. Right. And forced us to eat it all. Exactly. Yeah. What a jackass.

Am I right? Mm-hmm. Anyway. You can also invest in yourself by joining our Patreon. Yes. Yeah. That's the ultimate self-care. That is.

Listening to us. For hours on end and hours and hours um do you think we'll have a bonus episode out by next week absolutely we will okay hot new bonus what do you think is gonna happen hot new i don't know patty you okay hot hot new bonus episode out now uh-huh uh we talked about i hate it when you do this to me. It was just a day ago. It was. We recorded a day and a half ago. I talked about a...

I talked about insanity laws back in the day. You want to hear about sexism? You want to be upset? Join our Patreon. Yeah, do it. Oh, also? I don't have the slightest recollection of what I talked about. All my brain space is taken up by the case I got to tell you today.

I know. That's the way it works, isn't it? Fuck, what did I talk about? You know what I do remember about that episode? What? Before we recorded, we went out to a new bar and grill that I insisted on going to. Oh, my gosh. And we were way too old to go there.

There was a giant party happening upstairs. It was very loud. We almost left. But the server came over just in the nick of time and we felt it would be rude to leave. And so we stayed. A couple of people in the party room upstairs were over-served and vomited outside of the restaurant. And so for a fun little treat, we asked our patrons to tell us their best puke story. So those are at the end of the episode.

It was kind of entertaining, I gotta say. There's also a part in there where I tell a story about what? Who knows? What the hell did you— What the fuck did I talk about? I gotta pull it up. Whip it out. Okay.

I talked about insanity laws. Yeah, you talked about... I discussed at length... I'm looking at the name and it's ringing no bells. What is it? Sandra Garner. I talked about Sandra Garner. Oh!

Oh! I did another murder mystery, Texas style. Oh, actually. Okay, here's why I hate that we do this. Yeah. Because if I were listening to this, I'd be like, well, they must have been really stupid cases if they can't even remember them a day later. No. No.

There's just only so much space in the brain. I loved your story. It was very much a whodunit. It was. It was. It's very whodunity, as they say. Yeah. So this is a very long ad for our Patreon.

Yeah. If you'd like to check out that riveting episode, you can join now at the $5 level or higher. Yeah, we probably ought to cut it off right there. And now it's time that I'm going to tell you the story that's taking out

my current brain space. Okay. Thank you to Geriatric Sasquatch in the Discord for recommending this case. Most of this comes from a Dateline episode. What's it called?

Should I tell you that? A shot in the dark. They never do. It probably doesn't, right? No, because they're always just like vague descriptive words. Hit us with three descriptive words. Hit us with three descriptive words. I really just think it's called like the disappearance

of... So and so. Okay. Also, an Oxygen article that was basically just a synopsis of the Dateline episode. And an episode for TruTV by Gary C.

King. Alright. What was he seeking? Oh my god. Oh my god, that was so good. Was it? It was hilarious. Okay. People say I'm so funny.

Now I'm worried that I don't know the name of that Dateline episode. I'm also worried. What the hell is going on? You know what I did. Yeah, you didn't watch the Dateline episode. I listened to it. I did not find the transcript of it.

I listened to it. Oh, it's called The Night Brianna Vanished. Okay. Okay. Night, Brianna vanished. Okay. Okay. It was winter break 2008, and Brianna Dennison, a sophomore at Santa Barbara City College,

was back home in Reno, Nevada, visiting her family and friends. Brianna was a fun-loving 19-year-old. Her mom described her as breezy. She was beautiful. Had this beautiful smile. Okay, I'm picturing if someone's breezy, they're obviously blonde, right? She's not. She is a brunette. She's

super, super cute. Very beautiful and like 5 foot nothing, 100 pounds. Okay. That's fine fine i'm not i'm not the least bit jealous it's totally fine as fun loving as she was she was also known to be very responsible she always let her mom know where she was who who she was with. And there was a reason for this. When Brianna was like six years old, her dad died very suddenly, leaving just her and her mom and her infant brother behind. That's all they say on the Dateline episode. And so I looked into it a little bit. Yeah. Her dad died by suicide as he was about to go to court for a giant pyramid scheme.

Oh, wow. Yeah. He ran some kind of like company that did promotional merchandise like shirts and stuff with logos on it. And that was a pyramid scheme?

Okay. The article I found said that it was like the largest pyramid scheme that the reno investigators had ever uncovered i feel like there'd be a lot of pyramid schemes in reno so that's got to be okay yeah so he was like days away from going to court and he died by suicide. He was found in his office at work and he left behind his wife and his six-year-old daughter and his baby son. Gosh, that's so sad. And so another article I read said that basically Brianna became her mother's sidekick. Like she had to help with the baby. She was all her mother had.

And so she became very responsible from a very young age. And that carried on even to her teenage years. Even when she was in college, she always let her mom know where she was, what she was up to. Yeah, you can't just turn that off. Yeah. So during her winter break, there was this big event in Reno that was known as SWAT, and it stands for something. And I didn't care to write it down. Summer, winter, something, blah, blah, blah.

My goodness. Yes. It's on the Wikipedia page, and I just went to click on the Wikipedia page to read it to you, and I closed it instead. Huh. Wow. And you call yourself a professional. Ah, yes. Here it is.

It stands for Summer Winter Action Tours. What do they do? Basically, it was like a company that put together like convention style events for college kids. Okay. And so they had this big event in Reno and it was like parties and concerts and stuff like that. And so she was planning to attend that with her friends while she was home on winter break. She knew there were several things that she wanted to attend. So she listed them all out on a piece of paper and gave it to her mom so their mom would know exactly which events she was at and when.

On January 19th, 2008, just before she was to head out and meet her friends, it was like nine o'clock in the evening. Brianna told her mom goodbye. head out and meet her friends. It was like nine o'clock in the evening. Brianna told her mom goodbye. She gave her a hug and she asked her, do you want me to call and give you a check-in call tonight when I'm back to my friend's house? And her mom was like, no, I know who you're going to be with. I know where you're going to be. No need. So that night, Brianna and her friends started at the Sands Regency Hotel and Casino. This was kind of the hub of the SWAT event. From there, they took a bus with a bunch of other college students to a concert.

I tried like hell to find out what concert they were at. I know you did. All that I came up with was that it was a rap concert. All that I came up with was that it was a rap concert, which I find the Dateline episode misleading because they very clearly played country music in the background while they were discussing the fact that Brianna was going to this concert. Didn't back in the day Nelly do a collab with some country guy? OK, sure. It's fine then. OK, Dateline, I forgive you. Well, what if that's what it was?

Okay. Yes. Tim McGraw. Wasn't it Nelly and Tim McGraw? See now? Over and over again. Oh! Isn't that the song?

I think it's funny. All in my head. Over and over again. Yeah, I think it's funny that at first she went, you with him. Okay, anyway, I don't know that song. Mystery song. We know the concert she went to. So they went to this concert.

They were there until like 12, which was located inside the hotel. What did they eat? They dined on mozzarella sticks and milkshakes. Oh, gosh. I feel like you're going to – Too much dairy. Yeah, you're going to poop yourself. Too much dairy. Mm-hmm. Oh, gosh. I feel like you're going to. Too much dairy. Yeah, you're going to poop yourself. Too much dairy.

Let me tell you, that sounds delicious in the moment. Yeah, it does. It sounds delicious to me right now. Right now? Well, no, I'm too full right now. I know, I'm too full. The thought of it just makes me sick. I don't know.

Maybe when you're that young, you can just throw all kinds of dairy products at yourself. At some point around 2 a.m., one of the friends, Jessica, was like, I'm done. I hit my limit. I got to go home and go to bed. Too many mud sticks. Uh-huh. And so she just like went out to the parking lot and like got a ride with some random dude who was getting into his SUV. Yeah.

And had the guy drop her off at their other friend, KT's house, which is where they were. All the girls were staying that night. Do some people grow up not afraid? Yeah. So they she talks about this on the Dateline episode and she's like, yeah, looking back, there's a real bad idea. Real, real bad. Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

I guess we all do things that looking back, it's like, well, I've got to. Yeah, and the hotel was not that far away from the house that they were staying at. But it was January in northern Nevada. It was very cold. Sure. So she's like, I could have walked. This guy was leaving about the same time. And so I asked him to give me a ride.

So Brianna and her friend KT stayed at Mel's Diner. And they stayed there for like another hour, hour and a half. And finally they got a ride back to KT's house with a group of guys that they knew. And they dropped him off at KT's house. KT lived in an old orange. That's not a word. Orange is what I was trying to say. But I was going to say like orange.

You're being too hard on yourself today, ma'am. All right. So she lived in this old orange. Aren't you glad I didn't say something mean? This old orange two-story rental house with a couple of other students from the University of Nevada, Reno. UNR, as they called it. When they were dropped off at the house, which is right by the UNR campus, Brianna and KT went inside and they found Jessica inside. She laid down in KT's bed.

She was out. Rude. What? Rude, right? No, she had in KT's bed. She was out. Rude. What? Rude, right? No, she had gone back to the house because she was tired. Yeah, but you don't take their bed. I think the sleeping options were limited. Yeah.

And so maybe there was an arrangement. Like maybe when she went back, KT was like, yeah, go ahead, lay down in my bed, whatever. So since Jessica was already asleep in the bed, KT's like, okay, I'll sleep in here with her. You take the couch to Brianna. Brianna's like, totally fine. I'm going to text my boyfriend for a little bit anyway. It's like 4 a.m. by this point, which just makes me tired. You're giving me flashbacks to Monday night when we realized how old we were.

So KT and Brianna changed into their PJs. So KT and Brianna changed into their PJs. And then KT gave Brianna like a couple of blankets, a pillow, and told her to like make a bed on the couch in the living room, which was right outside of KT's bedroom. KT is like the initials KT. I'm not saying Katie. Really weird. I have no idea what the K and T stand for, just for the record. So Brianna laid down on the couch.

Katie went into the room and laid down. And Brianna sent a text to her boyfriend just before she fell asleep. It was 4.23 a.m. The next morning, Katie and Jessica got up around 9. and they noticed that Brianna wasn't on the couch anymore. They assumed that she must have woken up and like gone home. Yeah. They ran a quick errand and then came back to the house. I think they went and got stuff to go make breakfast and they came back and they noticed that one of the blankets that Brianna had been sleeping with was like on the floor in the kitchen. Had it been there before or did they not know? They didn't notice it before.

But they also then noticed that Brianna's phone and purse and shoes were all still in the living room. shoes were all still in the living room. And so they started to freak out a little bit because obviously she hadn't left. So where was she? KT thought maybe Brianna had been uncomfortable on the couch. And so maybe she'd gone upstairs to one of KT's roommate's rooms. They weren't there. They were home for break or whatever. And so she went up there, roommate's rooms. They weren't there. They were home for break or whatever.

And so she went up there, checked the rooms. No Brianna. And so she came back down and they're looking through the living room and they noticed that the pillow Brianna had been sleeping on had what looked like blood on it. By this time, they're like totally freaked out and they call Brianna's mom, Bridget. And they're like, have you heard from Bri? And she was like, no, I haven't. And KT was like, kind of explain the situation. And we woke up.

She's not here. All of her stuff We woke up. She's not here. All of her stuff is still here. Her phone is here. And there's what looks like blood on the pillow that she was sleeping with. And Bridget was like, call the police right now. I'm on my way over. Yeah. And so KT got off the phone with Brianna's mom and called 911.

She told the dispatcher, I need the police at my house. And they were like, oh, okay, what's the deal? And she's like, um, my friend spent the night last night on the couch and now she's gone and there's something that looks like blood on her pillow. And so police responded to the scene quickly and it was very apparent to them that Brianna didn't leave that house of her own free will. But there was also marks from her mascara on the pillow that made it look as if she'd been held down with the pillow. The pillow had been pressed against her face so hard that it had caused her to bleed. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so they kind of assessed the scene and they discovered that the women who lived in this house did something that I will never understand.

They treated – this was a rental house with several college students, right? It was right off campus. So they treated it almost like a hotel. They all locked their individual bedrooms but did not lock the doors to the house because people just came and went constantly.

I think that's super common. Yeah, I just I have trouble understanding. So, essentially, Brianna had gone to sleep in a living room on a couch right in front of glass windows with no blinds and a multi-paneled glass front door that was not locked.

She was in full view of anybody who was just wandering by the house. It still seems really weird though because you – I mean … Because you wouldn't know that the house is unlocked. Exactly and I don't know. It just – it doesn't seem like a random – a truly random crime to me. There were no signs of forced entry obviously because the doors were just unlocked for anybody. And there were no signs of a struggle other than those blood spots on the pillow. You know what those are?

What? Signs of a struggle. Yeah. I hate to be, you know, that gal. You know, that gal. They were able to – OK, here's the deal. They recovered some evidence from the back door handle. I don't know how they – like if they saw something on the handle that made them test it. But for whatever reason, they swabbed it and they were able to get a DNA sample of a touch DNA sample from the back door of the house. It was like a solid DNA profile. All right.

Aside from that, though, there was no evidence at the scene, but a DNA profile is pretty good. Except the person has to be in the system. What's the deal with her boyfriend? Her boyfriend lives in Oregon. They rule him out immediately. Damn it all to hell. Yes. So the next person they look into is that random dude.

The friend flagged down at the hotel that night. They put out like, wow. I got stuck there. No, so immediately a search obviously, this goes out into the media. A search is put together. People are searching the community. And then they put out a request for that man to come forward

and be like, hey. It's me. I'm not a creep. And so he does immediately within within like a day yeah i just spit across the room did you see that you are a mess an absolute mess this case is fucked with me i had a nightmare i'll tell you my nightmare okay all right all right anyway i'm not gonna remember to tell you the nightmare nobody cares it's fine people care i guarantee it so that guy comes forward and they he willingly gives a dna sample they clear him it's not him and like the friend jessica was a fucking mess she's like this is all my fault i flagged some stranger down i should have just

walked my ass home oh but it's not that guy yeah and so a search begins. I am so sorry. You got an itchy tit? I do. I mean, these are the facts. Kristen just reached into her shirt and scratched her boob. How long have we known each other? Yeah, no, I'm not offended by it.

Uh-huh. You love it. The problem is you like it too much. Now you're like, what about that other one? Is that one itchy too? It's not. You're just going to have to wait. Usually you just have one itchy tit.

What's the odds that both tits itch at the same time? I would love to know. Does that mean somebody's imagining? Somebody's masturbating to you. Yeah. So a citywide search has begun. people are putting up flyers everywhere they're tying blue ribbons on everything that say bring back brie um it's a huge search is underway and police then are looking into possible suspects, other things that have been going on in the area. And they find that like a month earlier, there was a kidnapping and rape.

Oh. Like 500 yards from KT's house. Oh, my God. In a campus parking garage. Oh. Oh, my God. In a campus parking garage. Oh. A young woman had like gotten home at like 2 a.m., had gotten out of her car and had been like a man had snuck up behind her, had wrapped his arm around her, had taken her into his car, driven her to another site, raped her, and told her if she told anyone, he'd come back and kill her.

Oh, my God. Yeah. She had immediately called the police, and so they'd done a rape kit, and they'd had a sample. And they were able to compare that DNA sample to the DNA sample they took from the doorknob at KT's house. And it was a match. Oh, man. enough of a description to determine a basic profile of who this guy was. She didn't have a description of his face, but she'd seen a lot of his body. Yeah. She was able to say that he had these like thick, meaty fingers. She thought he was between 20 and 30 years of age, somewhere between five foot nine

and six feet tall. And she was able to give a very specific, detailed description of his vehicle. So she had been essentially face down during the rape. And so she looked around the car and she had remembered everything she could. She remembered exactly where the dome lights were located in the car. She remembered exactly how the center console was situated. And she described it in detail to the police. And so the investigators then took that info to a body shop and described it to them. info to a body shop and described it to them. And they were able to narrow down that this was a Toyota Tacoma extended cab pickup that was somewhere between a 2006 and a, or a, yeah, like a 2005 and a 2008 model.

That's amazing. Amazing. Yeah. She also was able to say that there was a baby shoe on the front floorboard of the truck. Well, that's not disturbing at all, is it? Yeah, no kidding. She said he was a white guy who spoke perfect English with not a hint of an accent or any kind of regional dialect. He was Midwestern. Yes, essentially. I mean, that's what she's saying.

And then from her very detailed description that she was able to give, they then took all that information to like a profiler and they put together a profile. They thought that he would be kind of a loner. He would not have a very high education level. He – what? I was just thinking. What if they were like, yeah, what you got here is a big creepy rap level. He, what? I was just thinking. What if they were like, yeah, what you got here is a big creepy rapist.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And he probably worked in some kind of construction job. Okay. But no physical description. So they put this information out. They put the information of the vehicle out.

And another woman comes forward. Shit. A woman who was raped in another parking garage in October. Oh, Jesus. She had never reported the rape. OK. I was about to say I'm amazed that this woman reported it. Yeah.

So this woman had – That'd be really scary. Oh, absolutely. So this other woman, the woman in October, had not reported it. She didn't feel like she would be believed. She didn't want to go through every – the scrutiny. That's understandable. Yeah, absolutely.

And so she came forward. Especially if he threatened her too. I mean this is someone – you don't know what they even look like really. Yeah, this woman did get a look at the guy's face good enough that she could help the police make a sketch. And he had raped her at gunpoint. So much time had gone by obviously that they were not able to get a DNA sample in this case. But there was something she said about the attack that matched the other woman's account. The woman who was kidnapped and then she was returned to her – like he then drove her back to her apartment complex and dropped her off and was like, don't tell anyone or I'll come back here.

He demanded her underwear at the end of the rape and kept them as some kind of trophy. So this other woman comes forward. That's not information that they released to the public in any way. She comes forward, tells them about – she heard about Brianna's disappearance. She hears about the search and she says, this is what happened to me in October I never reported it but I feel like maybe this can help it's in the same area yeah same 500 yard radius yeah and she's like she has enough of a description of his face for them to do a police sketch and then she tells them he kept my underwear and they're like like, OK, well, this is obviously the same guy.

By this point, three weeks have gone by and the search is not turning up anything. I think it's really interesting. So in that first story, not the first one you've told us, but in the first one, he rapes her at gunpoint. The second time he doesn't have a gun yeah i don't know i feel like in my extensive true crime viewing it always escalates you sound like the fucking defense kristin oh shit all right All right. Well. Another woman came forward in there and said she was attacked in a parking lot near campus.

She was able to fight off her attacker. Wow. But she believed it was the same guy. She screamed and screamed and he tried to choke her out to silence her but was unable to because she kept kicking and fighting. And eventually he ran off one source says that she called the police immediately and because he actually made contact with her they were able to pull a dna sample but i only have one source that said that and that seems kind of far-fetched i agree so i actually wasn't going to include that but then i just did so So fun.

Never know what you're going to get on this podcast. So on like Valentine's Day, three weeks have gone by at this point. Brianna's mom does like a public plea on the news and she speaks directly to her daughter. And she's like, we just know, Brianna, we are never going to stop looking for you. We will bring you home. We just want you back. Privately, she said at this point they knew there was not a very good chance of Brianna coming home alive. They got a little bit of hope when that woman came forward with her story that she'd been

kidnapped and then returned to her apartment. Yeah, that would give you hope. But Brianna's mom said that they knew that if there was any possible way that she could reach out to her family, she would have. And so they just didn't believe that there was a very likely chance that they would find her alive. Yeah. So she made that plea on February 14th, Valentine's Day.

The next day, February 15th. It's like beautiful. All of a sudden it's warming up in Nevada. Everything's been snow covered while they've been doing these searches. People are like coming from their all-night casino jobs, getting off work, and then showing up at the search and like searching all day. Finally, the snow's melting. It's getting warmer out.

There's this guy who's like in a business park and he leaves his work to go to Subway for lunch. And he like walks to Subway because it's nice out. And on the way back, he kind of cuts across this field. It's this big empty field like in the middle of this industrial park or this business park. Yeah, where the guy worked construction. Interesting. And he sees like in kind of a drainage culvert in the middle of this field like a discarded Christmas tree. And then something under it that's bright and catches his eye.

And it's like enough to make him walk over through this field towards it. And as soon as he gets like halfway to it, he sees what he believes is a body. And so he leaves. He doesn't have a cell phone on him. So he goes back to work, gets his boss. He and his boss walk back out to the field and his boss is like, yeah, that's a body. And so they call the police. Oh, my God.

The condition of her body was somewhat preserved because of the snow. But then also it had been out and animals had gotten to it. So identification took a bit of time. They told her mother, of course, that very day that they'd located a body. I mean, it was like it was immediately people were just stopping by the field when they saw the police and people – I mean people were coming from all over and just like, oh my gosh, is that Brianna? Is that her? Finally they identified her body by DNA. But it would be 10 months before they got anywhere with this case.

They were able to pull a DNA sample from her. She'd been strangled. She had been sexually assaulted. They found two pairs of thong underwear with her body that did not belong to her. One of them had been used to strangle her. Oh, my God. So they were able to put together a DNA profile based on the swabs that they pulled from her body. And it, of course, matched the other samples.

They talked to every sex offender. They had people just like showing up and offering to give DNA samples just to clear themselves after like the police sketch went out and stuff. Men who thought they looked like it. I mean people were looking at any white dude who drove an extended cab

pickup. I mean that's going to be a lot of dudes. It's a lot. They said specifically on this episode they're like in Reno, got to be a lot of dudes. It is a lot. They said specifically on this episode, they're like, in Reno, Nevada, that's a lot of guys. They had also set up this tip line, obviously, and they called it Secret Witness, so you could call in and leave

any kind of tip, but it wasn't really going anywhere. They followed up like 5,000 tips, and nothing was leading anywhere. And so up like 5,000 tips. And nothing was leading anywhere. And so finally they decided to release the information about the previous victims that their underwear

had been taken. And as soon as they released that information You are shaking the whole table. I'm sorry. They got a tip on the secret witness line from a woman who thought her boyfriend had been acting kind of strange. That he'd previously owned a Toyota extended cab pickup that he sold and that he'd moved away and then just recently moved back to town. He moved away for like 10 months.

Yeah. And when she was – he'd moved to Washington where his parents lived. He took a job there. He worked as a pipe fitter. And when she went to Washington to help him move back to Reno … Oh, God. She found … Just a ton of underwear?

Mm-hmm. In his truck. Oh. And she had confronted him about it. And he had been like, I stole that from a woman at the laundromat. and he'd been like, I stole that from a woman at the laundromat. And she let herself believe that in the moment. Well, even that's not great, right?

No, it's not great! Oh, I'm just a totally normal guy. I steal some lady's underwear at the laundromat. Yeah. And so she didn't leave her name, and she didn't leave his full name. She said his first initial is J and his last name is Bila. And so they ran a driver's license check and they found a James Bila and they found that he previously had a Toyota extended cab pickup registered to him. And they pulled his driver's license picture and it looked just like the police sketch. And so one of the detectives who was on the case tracked down his address and he went to his house and he wasn't there.

So he left his card, asked him to call him. And James Bela did. He called him that same day. And the detective explained that he had a case that he was looking into and he wanted to talk to James. And James was like, yeah, that's fine. I'll come down. I'll talk to you tomorrow after I get off work. And then they got off the phone. And the detective said in that moment. He didn't ask, like, what's this about? In that moment, he got off the phone. He sat down and he just went, huh.

He never asked what I'm investigating. Yeah, that's fucking weird. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He said any time, like, in his card says homicide detective. He said any time I leave my car for someone and they call me, they're like, oh, my gosh, what has happened to somebody I know get murdered? Like, yeah. And he's like, this guy, super calm, did not ask me what I am investigating. And then it's I'll come by after. Do you know how quickly I would rearrange my schedule?

I'd be there right this second. Yeah. Huh. So the next day, James Bila came in for the interview, sat down with him, and they're like, hey, you know, we're investigating the murder of Brianna Dennison. You know, we're investigating the murder of Brianna Dennison and just, you know, some of the – we're just trying to eliminate people with DNA samples. You kind of match the description that we've had and we have a car description. It sounds like a car that you've previously owned. So would you give us a DNA sample?

No. Nope. Yeah. Yeah. nope refuse to give a DNA sample it's like no I'm not going to do that but my girlfriend she'll give you my she's my alibi she'll tell you where I was and so they're like

okay great well we'll give her a call and so on November 12th 2008 Okay. Great. Well, we'll give her a call. And so on November 12th, 2008, the detective sat down with James Bila's girlfriend. And she said that they had been together on and off for like six years. They had a four-year-old son together. She said that she had followed the disappearance of Brianna very closely. She actually had worked in a building that overlooked the field where her body was found. She watched that day as the police processed the scene.

She called James to tell him they'd found the body. And he'd been like, I can't talk right now. And like got off the phone immediately. Yeah. Yeah. And she told them that she couldn't account for his whereabouts on the day that Brianna was abducted. She couldn't account for his whereabouts on the days the other rapes had occurred. They had been arguing a lot and he would disappear for days at a time.

He'd tell her he'd been sleeping in his car when he'd finally come back. Yep. And she said that sometime in March, he'd sold his Toyota pickup. He'd got a different car. And then he'd moved to Washington, which is where he was from originally. His parents still lived in Washington. Gotten a pipefitter job there. And then eventually he'd come back to Reno. And that's when she had discovered the underwear that he had in his truck.

And he'd given that story about stealing them from the laundromat. Yeah. They told her that he'd refused to give a DNA sample. And so she said they could test their son. And she allowed them to take a saliva sample from the son that they shared. And so they did. And they sent that off to the crime lab. And it came back as a 50% match. Yeah. To the DNA profile that they had pulled from Brianna's body and the other rape victim and the door handle.

You're telling me this goes to trial? It sure fucking does, which seems nuts. Yeah. So after this, there was like this dramatic moment where they brought James Bela in and sat him down for another interrogation. And they allowed his girlfriend to go in and talk to him in the interrogation room. She's bawling. Yeah. And she said, did you do this?

She's sobbing. She's like, did you do this? Oh, my God, did you do this? Yeah. He's just looking at her. And she's like, if you tell me no, I will get you a defense attorney. I will fight this with you. You just have to tell me. And he looking at her and she's like, if you tell me no, I will get you a defense attorney. I will fight this with you. You just have to tell me.

Right. And he looks at her and he says, now is not the time for this. Oh, fuck. That gives me chills. Yeah. Following that, James Bila was arrested. They got a court order for a DNA sample from him. It was a perfect match to all the other DNA samples.

Yada, yada, yada. He was placed under arrest and he was charged with the murder of Brianna and the previous rapes. And the previous rapes, the rape of the girl in the parking garage and the rape and kidnap of the other girl from the other area on campus. James Bila pled not guilty. Bold move. OK. Uh-huh. And he went to trial.

He's going to get his ass handed to him. Oh, yeah. Here's how here's how like open and shut this case is. Every article is like he went to trial and he was found guilty. Of course. I mean, what more do we need to know? I've got to really search for trial coverage. So I've got a tiny bit. But yeah. Well, yeah, I bet this trial lasted half a day. Yeah, it was a super short trial. The prosecution's case was super strong. They laid out all the DNA evidence. They had the two surviving victims both testified. His now former girlfriend testified.

Yeah, I bet. They had a couple of coworkers testify that when during the big search that was going on for Brianna he like was watching the news cover and he was like that bitch probably deserved it. What? Yeah. Yeah. They should have called the cops right then. No shit. This is a fucking weird reaction.

Yeah. Who has that reaction? Right. One thing I did not note earlier that I probably should have, it just occurred to me right now, is that all of the victims looked very similar to each other. They were very petite girls with long, straight, dark hair. I mean the prosecution's case was very straightforward. They showed all the DNA and, you know, showed how it all matched up. And then the defense called one expert,, showed how it all matched up. And then

the defense called one expert, like one witness. That's it. They called a DNA expert. And they're like, well, not so fast on that DNA evidence prosecution. What? Yeah. They said that the prosecution had essentially used all of the samples. So the defense was never able to independently verify the matches. OK. Yep. And that's the whole defense. Well, I mean, what more can you say? What more do you have?

Yeah. In closing arguments, James, defense attorney, was basically like, you know, we don't really know if this DNA evidence is true. We just have to take the prosecution at their word because we were never able to test it ourselves, which is a fair argument. And then he also zeroed in on that claim from the girl who said she was raped at gunpoint, that that couldn't possibly be related to this case. It's a real stretch to say that that was also James because no one's ever seen him with a gun. No one's ever claimed he had a gun and he didn't use a gun in any of the other attacks. And the jury deliberated for less than three hours. Yeah.

And found him guilty. And the jury deliberated for less than three hours. Yeah. And found him guilty. The state did seek the death penalty as their aggravating factors. The prosecution pointed out the serial nature of these crimes. Like he was escalating each time. I mean, he was obviously a serial rapist. And as mitigating factors, the defense said he'd had a tough childhood and he'd never been convicted of a crime before.

Before? Before. Previously. That's only because rapists always get away with it. He'd actually been arrested once before. He wasn't convicted of anything. He was arrested for threatening his girlfriend's neighbor with a knife.

Oh, that's pretty bad. That's pretty bad. He'd been able to plead it down, I think, to misdemeanor. And so it wasn't like on his record. Yeah, it's still pretty bad. Yeah. Yep. He made a statement.

This is the only time he spoke at trial and he was like – he kind of apologized, said he was sorry to everyone that was there and he was most sorry to his son who no matter what the jury decided, he'd never get to see grow up. He said, I don't know if this is the time or place for it but son, I love you. I mean – yeah I yeah you could also apologize to the victim yeah and the victim's families yeah no he had an opportunity to do that but didn't really he just said like a general I'm sorry yeah yeah great Yeah. Great. So the jury was deciding between life in prison without the possibility of parole and the death penalty and they gave him the death penalty. He was sentenced to death. He remains on death row. He has appealed his sentence obviously but so far those appeals have been unsuccessful. Following this Bri Brianna's mom, Bridget, felt like she needed to do

something. She felt called to do something to make Brianna's death matter. And so she worked to get Brianna's law passed. So Brianna's law is a law that anybody who is arrested for a felony is swabbed for DNA. And then if that moves forward with charges, those DNA samples are then put into the national database. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So in this case, it would have saved Brianna's life. Yeah. Because James would have been swabbed when he was arrested

for threatening the neighbor with a knife. And then when that rape kit was done, it would have shown up as a match. Potentially. There's a huge backlog of rape kits being tested. Well, and didn't you say like once the felony – It had to move forward with charges. He was charged, but he put it down to a misdemeanor.

OK. Gotcha. Yeah. Gotcha. So this law was signed into law by the governor of Nevada. It was enacted in July of 2014. As of 2018, since that law was enacted, Breonna's law has put names to more than 1,000 crimes, including matching more than 100 sexual assaults to perpetrators. Wow. More than 61,000 felony arrests in Nevada have resulted in a data collection that has now entered the national database.

That's incredible. Yep. 86 automobile burglaries, 62 robberies, 3 arsons, 23 attempted homicides, and 9 homicides, including cold cases that date back decades. That's incredible. Incredible. There is a law like Brianna's law in 31 states as of 2018. It might be more than that now. That's the last article that I found that showed that statistic. Bridget, Brianna's mom, did a lot of interviews and stuff during the time

that she was working to get Brianna's law passed. Since it has passed, she has declined every interview. She doesn't care to be in the public eye anymore. I found an interview with Brianna's brother around the 10-year anniversary of when Brianna was killed. And he said it changed his childhood. He was 15 when Brianna was killed. And he said it stole his childhood, the rest of his childhood from him.

He had to be by his mom's side for the rest of his life, essentially. And that is the story of an abduction that is amazing good that law has done yeah amazing oh man yeah that's that's incredible that she was able to push so hard for that. Yeah. Scary as hell though. Okay. Tell us about the dream. Okay. So the fact that like she was just asleep on the couch and somebody came in and abducted her.

Okay. So this morning, David leaves for work before I do. So I was like just kind of like dozing sleeping after after he got up and so like i dream a lot in the mornings like that when i'm in that like in between sleep he left and i heard the garage door and then i dreamed that i heard the garage door open again oh and then somebody came in and came into london's bedroom woke up like panicked, my heart racing. I got on like the baby monitor immediately and checked her. And I was like listening for noises.

Yeah. Obviously no one was in my house, but it was terrifying. Whew. Yeah. Yeah, that's really scary. Yeah. So this guy, I mean, he was just truly hanging out in that area. Yeah, because there were college students all over the place who were in – he could catch in vulnerable situations.

Yeah, he was just some asshole. He was probably rejected by some cute little woman at some point and then became this monster. His parents did an interview that I read. They were like they believed his innocence and they were like he's not the monster the press is making him out to be. No. Okay. I hate it when people do that. It's not the press that is doing that.

It's his actions. Yes. Yeah. It was a real uncomfortable article. I bet. Yeah. It was a real uncomfortable article. I bet. Good Lord. Well, I'm going to go pee. Okay, great. Have a wonderful time. Thank you.

All right. Shout outs to an episode of American Justice. Ooh! Titled The Doctor's Wife. Hold on. I've already forgotten what you're telling us. About a surgeon! A surgeon. Oh, okay.

An episode of 48 Hours. Ooh! Titled The Other Woman. Oh, shit. We gotta... Okay. All right. It sounds like you're going to tell a brandy case.

Let me tell you how much of a brandy case this is. There is an episode of Snapdata. Oh, shit. Yes. There is also an episode of that stupid show you love. What stupid show do I love? Accident. Accident, suicide, or murder?

Yes. Oh, my. Look at you. All up in my territory. I hated it. I fucking hate this case. Did you have a murder? Yes. Oh my, look at you, all up in my territory. I hated it. I fucking hate this case. Did you have a nightmare? No.

No, I mean, it's not that kind of hate. It's like, here's the thing. On these weeks when we do two episodes, you gotta work lightning fast. You do. And so I got balls deep into this case. And you're like, I don't want to do it, but I'm too far in. I fucking hate it.

Yeah. And yet here I sit, broken hearted. We should have changed cases. Tried to shit, but merely farted. Now I'm telling you this story. That's poetry. I hated my case. Did you see? I was very intrigued by yours.

Yeah, I'm going to be very intrigued by yours. It's really rare that a case gives me nightmares. Yeah. All right, here we go. Sorry in advance for this stupid-ass case. They were the perfect couple. Until they weren't. Karen and David Stevens married young.

Like, super young. How young? She was like 16, he was 18. Fuck, that is young. Oh, I have in here pause for a yikes. I'm hilarious. I don't mean to give you Betty Broderick vibes, but for nearly their entire marriage, or actually their entire marriage. No, nearly.

No, nearly. Just the entire marriage. Yeah. Karen supported David. She supported him through med school and all that goes with it. They had two children, Alan and Kristen, whom they welcomed into the home. Was Kristen super hot? Naturally.

Duh. We spelling that with an I or an E? Unfortunately with an E. What an idiot. That's what I say anytime I encounter Kristen with an E. Karen was a dedicated wife and mother, which allowed David the freedom and opportunity to build a very successful career. I'm so happy for him. He became a surgeon.

You've got to change your tone, Kristen. Jesus. Fucking hate this. You know what's funny is like, I was like, I fucking hate this, hate this, hate this. And every now and then I do this to myself where it's like I just – I hate my case. Yeah. And I'm honest with the people. And the weird thing is sometimes people are like, I love it when you hate your case.

So hope you love it. He became a surgeon and eventually founded – one source said co-founded, the Hattiesburg Heart Clinic in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. He and Karen were very influential members of the Hattiesburg community. She was active in the medical auxiliary, doing a ton of fundraising. The fuck is that? What's the medical auxiliary? I don't know. It's like a fundraising thing. They do like fundraising. The fuck is that? What's the medical auxiliary? I don't know. It's like a fundraising thing.

They do like fundraising. You just knocked the whole table. I'm sorry. You stupid. Don't have to look up auxiliary. I don't know what that is. I think we're too low class to have been invited to an auxiliary. Oh, providing supplementary or additional

help and support. That's not like a club, though. Well, yes, it is. It's like all the women get stuck in this club where they raise the money and do all the support and don't get paid for the jobs. That's me interpreting that for you. The medical auxiliary raises funds to purchase new medical equipment and to award scholarships to students pursuing health care careers. That makes sense. Yeah. What was unclear?

David served on the hospital board. Need to Google that. Now I know what a fucking hospital board is. He also served on the board of Southern Mississippi University. Oh, is that his alma mater? No, I think it was just like the local place and he was an influential local guy. So he was on the board. Why are you making that face?

Like that's against the rules. I don't know. It seems weird that he didn't go there and he's on the board. That's not weird. Okay, great. Are they affiliated with the hospital that he was affiliated with? How deep do you think I went? I don't know.

All right, Sarah, I'm getting hung up on weird stuff. I'm just giving you the surface level stuff. Okay. Yeah. The details of what they do. Great. Wonderful. Sorry. Fun fact about Southern Mississippi University. They've actually got a longstanding relationship with the local hospital. And that's why you're making this up right now to make me feel better? Yeah. I mean, they probably do. Okay.

It'd be hilarious if they didn't. Yeah. And they're like, no, we fucking hate the hospital. We're actually very anti-hospital. Fuck that hospital. Always asking us to bend over. Always asking us to bend over. For Karen, her identity was wrapped up in being David's wife.

And how could that go wrong? Side note, don't worry. These two stories totally don't come together in a spectacularly sloppy fashion. Great. But a new nurse started working at the Hattiesburg Heart Clinic. Oh, this is the other woman? No, I told you this is like a total, we're going on a tangent. A tangent about a hot new nurse.

This is one of those tangents that people don't like. Don't even pay attention, this has nothing to do with the story. Her name was Stephanie Kennedy. She was real cute. She was young. In fact, she was only one year older than David's adult daughter, Kristen. Isn't that neat? So hot.

Ew. Stop it! Why do I have to stop it? You're the one who said it's so hot. Yeah, they're going to bang. Oh. Stephanie was a small-town girl. She was married. Yeah, they're going to bang. Stephanie was a small town girl.

She was married. Was she living in a lonely world? Until David Stevens came along, yeah. Yeah, made her less lonely. All right. If you know what I mean. The people don't understand. It's too complex.

I like this podcast, but it's too highbrow for me. I wish they'd dumb it down and add in some fart jokes, they say. We hear it every day. They're too stuffy. Not nearly enough gobs have come on that podcast. Oh my god. Okay, why are you talking to me like that? That's from your story. Because here's the thing.

Not everyone has listened in order and knows that that's, like, there are gonna be people who, this is their first episode. Great. You know what's not as bad as? The one where we talked about licking your butthole at the beginning of the episode not your butthole i was gonna say i was gonna you just watch it lady your butthole was also it was a butthole licking contest um conversation, not an actual contest. It was a hypothetical contest. Anyway, why did I bring this up? Not totally sure.

So she was married. She had two children. And when she was in high school, she was crowned Miss Parrish Washington. So you might want to bow down, bitches. Stephanie was a decent nurse, but she rubbed at least one of her coworkers the wrong way. The woman said that Stephanie had a bad attitude. She talked about wanting to marry a doctor, which was weird because she was already married, but whatever. By the way, David and Stephanie got along great.

You okay there? Well, I just, like, slammed my water bottle into my watch and made a loud noise. Good. Maybe you could, like, practice your snapping skills, do some clicks and whistles. Maybe I should chew some gum. Hey, I've got this cake here. I'm just going to eat this cake. Can you imagine how rude?

Yeah, it'd be terrible. What would make you more mad? The fact that I wasn't sharing any cake or that I was doing it into the mic? Doing it into the mic. Oh, I think I'd be more mad that you weren't sharing. Really?

Yeah, if... Oh, I think I'd be more mad that you weren't sharing. Really? Yeah. If. Oh, I wouldn't care if I would like if you could do it without the listeners here. It wouldn't make me mad. But the listening. That's impossible. Really? Are you in?

What? No, it wouldn't bother me if you're like, hey, just get a hankering for some cake. I've got one piece left. No, no, no. Do you care if I grab it? No, that's not what happens. Okay. what happens is

I'm like, oh gosh, could we hang on a second? I'm going to go to the bathroom. So I go to the bathroom and then I'm like, I'll be right back. And I go downstairs, come back up with a beautiful cake. Not a slice. Oh, you have a whole cake.

Okay. And I just eat it in front of you. Not the whole thing. It's too much for one person. I'm just eating it. No, again. It looks delicious. I wouldn't care that you were eating cake. I'd care that you were eating cake on mic.

Why do you insist on lying right now? I'm not lying. If you ate cake in front of me, ate cake and didn't offer me some, I would be pissed. Pissed. Here's the deal. I know that when I leave here, if I really want cake, I could go get cake. Well, that's true of anyone, anytime. Yeah, exactly.

That's terrible logic. I'm sorry. You wouldn't think it was rude? No, not for you. What? I'm not some stranger. Exactly. You're not some stranger.

You're my friend. Yeah. You're right in front of me. No. I should offer you cake. I disagree. I wouldn't care. Anyway, I guess we'll get back to the show.

anyway i guess we'll get back to the show everyone please let us know that brandy is weird and wrong people are probably gonna think it's weird it's super weird i just wouldn't care if it were a different food would it matter no maybe if i were super hungry If it were a different food, would it matter? No. Maybe if I were super hungry. Right now I'm not any hungry, so I really feel very easy to be like, no, I don't want any cake. Yeah, but I didn't offer. I don't care. I don't care.

All right. Well, let it be known. Now I'm picturing you. Oh, my God. What I'm picturing is a cookie cake. Yeah. Just sounds really good right now. Okay.

You come in with a big-ass cookie cake. Yeah. And you just cut yourself a slice. And I'm left looking at that, like, Pac-Man looking thing. Maybe the problem I'm having here is because this is, like, such a far—you would never eat cake in front of me without offering me cake. Right. So maybe that's why I'm like, yeah, no, that'd be fine. I wouldn't care because it's such a far-fetched scenario.

Charay-ray is so ingrained in you that if you were going to eat the tiniest morsel of a strawberry, you'd make sure there was some strawberry for me. Yeah. Yeah. Here's my concern. If I came up here with a full cake, started eating it, and didn't offer it to you, you should know I've got a brain tumor or something. So, okay, fine. Don't get upset. But, like, you need to be like, hey, I'm going to go just talk to Norm real quick.

Just real quick. And then you go to Norm and you're like, get the case going on. Yes. All right. Establish that. All right. I got my safety all lined up there. So, you know, David and Stephanie got along great.

They were good friends. And then romance blossomed. Obviously. We saw that coming. Hot young nurse. Old dude with money. Rich doctor. In May of 1994, they began having an affair.

And they weren't subtle about it. About six months into the affair, Karen figured it out and it devastated her. She couldn't imagine what life would be like without David in it. But David promised that he would end the affair and that he'd go to counseling with her. And then three months later, he was still having the affair. On February 23rd, 1995, Stephanie called their house and Karen answered the phone. Karen was livid. Yeah.

She confronted David. They got into an argument. I mean, clearly. So the shows I watched were kind of delicate about this. Like, it brought up trust issues. It's like, well, no, it brought up the fact that the affair had never ended. Yeah, exactly. So David takes off to leave. He later said that he just wanted to cool off, but Karen thought that he was leaving forever.

So David got in his car and began to drive out the driveway, and Karen ran after him. She grabbed a gun. She got to the carport with the gun, shouting his name. She put the gun to her head. She ran toward the car and tripped. And the gun went off. She shoot him or herself? Herself.

Are we sure? Yeah. I mean, I get it. But yeah. She was rushed to the hospital, and before she slipped into a coma, she told officials that she'd intended to get David's attention, and the gun had gone off accidentally. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I mean, if it were any other way, I would be right there with you on that. Yeah, okay.

As a result of the gunshot, Karen's spine was severed. But she was going to survive, but as a quadriplegic. Which, fun fact, I had no idea how to spell. I learned a new word today. Well, I didn't know how to spell. Yeah, we got it. So, yeah, it looks like she's going to live. But a couple months later, her ventilator just stopped working.

And so she died. What? Yes. In the hospital? Yeah. Okay. She wasn't back home yet is what I'm asking. No, I don't think you – I mean, can you take a ventilator home?

It doesn't really seem like a bad idea. Maybe if your husband's a doctor, he might set you up as like in-home care. Yeah, but he's not going to be home all the time. Like a normal person can't. No, but I mean like they set up round-the-clock care. They move you back to your home because you're rich and you can be comfortable. I don't think that's a situation. Okay, so it was in the hospital and her ventilator fails.

Yeah. Or somebody unplugged it. I don't know. A hot young nurse perhaps. Oh, God. Hadn't considered that. It really... I mean, there was...

I've seen nothing of that. Okay, great. That's just where my twisted mind goes. Yeah, no, that's fair. Yeah. You've watched a lot of Snapped. Her death was ruled a suicide. David told his children the truth about how their mom died. He'd been having an affair.

She'd found out and it was a horrible accident. His daughter Kristen says she wasn't mad at her dad. She said she could tell that he felt tremendously guilty. Okay. Okay. I mean, I think

I'd be pretty pissed at my dad. This is what? Okay. I fucking hate this case. Alright. I hate it. Okay. I mean, I think I'd be pretty pissed at my dad. I know. This is why. Okay. Oh, I fucking hate this case. All right. I hate it. Okay. It's coming across real clear, Kristen.

I've always been a subtle gal. For what it's worth, Stephanie also felt guilty. By having that affair with David, she had contributed to Karen's death yeah yeah I mean in a way in a way yeah I mean you know you're not responsible for someone else's actions but that would be

wild if you called someone up and then you found out that they yeah that would be terrible Stephanie said that for months she couldn't look herself in the mirror Yeah. It'd be terrible. Stephanie said that for months she couldn't look herself in the mirror. But, you know, Stephanie and David must have gotten over their guilt fairly quickly because within a few weeks of Karen's death, Stephanie left her husband. And about a year later, Stephanie and David got married. Excellent.

Love this case. Yeah. Reverse psychology. It's a love story. Yeah. Their wedding date was May 11th, 1996, and for their venue, they chose David's home. They got married just a few yards away from where Karen had shot herself. Okay, that's super fucking weird.

Yes, it's fucking weird. Okay. And God bless her, there's footage of Kristen at this wedding. You know where I would not be on that day? Yeah. At the wedding, yeah. Go fuck yourself. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know. This is a fucked up situation. I don't know what I'd do other than look amazing the whole time. Obviously. So the footage of their wedding is very sweet. If you like watching what appears to be an old man marry his daughter. And I do. You just can't even help yourself.

There's a fun, sexy moment when they're opening gifts. And Stephanie opened up some massage lotion. And she was like, ooh, massage lotion. I'm going to rub this all over your liver spot. Gross. Yeah, so everyone's like, ha ha. And I barfed. Speaking of barf,

the newly blended family went to what appears to have been a Sears photo studio, and they all wore matching denim button-downs and khakis and posed for a family photo. Is Kristen in it? Yes. I'm sorry. I'm so egotistical. I was like, what? Why are you talking? Not you.

The other Kristen. The bitch who spells with an E! I photoshopped myself into the background. And you know what I did? What? I wore jeans and a khaki shirt just to fuck it up. I will say, the dog was in the photo and it was stark naked, so...

What kind of dog are we talking oh i think it was like a um retriever yes how what the fuck my guess so i can picture it perfectly okay so you know the weird thing on 48 hours Hours, they had, you know, just a ton of footage and, you know, all this stuff. And, like, in all the B-roll, Stephanie's there with a dog. And I'm kind of like, oh, a dog person. Hello, kindred spirit. But you know what I didn't like? What?

It's always a different dog. Hmm. Hmm. She's not loyal. Speaking of which, oh my God, Brandy, I can't believe we didn't tell you this at lunch. What? Okay, I'm sorry for people who don't like

tangents. Boy, here's a big one. You should have just seen the look on Kristen's face when this popped into her brain. I can't believe this. Okay, you know the story of how we got Kit. Yeah. I will recap believe this. Okay. You know the story of how we got Kit. Yeah. I will recap it briefly.

We went to our local shelter. We got Dottie. At the time, Dottie was there with a bunch of siblings. And they were like, hey, maybe you should take two. And we were like, ha-ha, you're hilarious. And then we just took Dottie. Yeah. But then after a couple months, we were like, oh, I wish we would have taken a sibling.

Yeah. So I called up the shelter. months we were like oh i wish we would have taken a sibling yeah so i called up the shelter i was like hey if there's any chance that one of dotty's siblings get returned please call us we will adopt it yeah so lo and behold miracle times like a week or two later they call us someone had returned precious kit kit not to Kit not to the shelter not to the shelter where we got it but to a different shelter

like a fucking coward but you know it's microchipped and blah blah blah so we go we get Kit we love Kit crazy about Kit

yeah Kit Kit loves me Kit does love me Dottie is jury's still out for Dottie

jury's still out on everybody for Dottie except for me and Norm. She has decided we are great. Okay. So the only thing we knew about the original owner for Kit was that she was like a college student who adopted a puppy in the pandemic, got overwhelmed, was like, bleh, goodbye. Okay. We take the dogs to doggy daycare today. And there's a woman walking out with her friend. Her friend has a dog. This woman stops, looks at Kit. And she's like, oh, my God. Oh, my God, that looks exactly like my old dog.

Shut up. She's like, yeah, that looks exactly like my old dog. And, you know, I'm just kind of like it honestly struck me as kind of weird how haunted she looked by it. And I was like, oh, yeah, you know, we get that a lot because, I mean, black and white dogs. I mean, they're kind of a dozen. Yeah, there's a lot. Although mine are very special. Of course.

We all know that. But anyway, she just kept staring and kept being a total weirdo. And she didn't mention, like, anything. It didn't seem like the dog had died. Anyway, I think, I'm sorry, that was kind of a lame story now that I put it all out there. No, maybe it was. I think it was. sorry, that was kind of a lame story now that I put it all out there. No, maybe it was. I think it was.

Yeah, Kit's old owner. And you know what? Kit gave her the finger. Oh, Kit knows. The paw. One paw up. I think it's possible. I mean, it's totally possible.

Yeah. It's a local thing. Yeah. I mean, you should have seen the fucking look on this lady's face. Anyway. Well, she did you a favor because Kit is wonderful. I know. I know.

It's so funny because Norm's kind of the one who's like, who would return Kit? And I've always been like, I'm very grateful that someone returned Kit. I'm like so happy someone did that. But, man, I saw that lady today and was like, hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Anyway, that was a worth it tangent. It was.

David and Stephanie also built a brand new $600,000 dream home. You sound like Dracula. Dracula. In Transylvania. It had one of those pools with a hot tub attached and I'm losing it. With blood. But for real, the pool with the hot tub attached.

I know. That's the case that I did for the PonySips that I couldn't remember. They had that. God, I love that. I'm going to have that someday. Hashtag goals.

But you know, I will have a pool with a hot tub attached like a tumor. But you know, Brandy, you take a veil. Oh, God.

The wheels are falling off, folks. It's too much podcasting. Too close together. Too much podcasting. I just have to say, this is an example when people are like, I wish you guys would do more bonus episodes. You want more of this shit? It can't be done, folks. It cannot be done.

I come into these episodes angry and weird. I come into these episodes angry and weird. So you take a vow to be with each other through sickness and in health, through matching outfits and massage lotions. Who gets sick? David gets sick? Ma'am. Keep those khaki pants on. About a year after the wedding, Stephanie got into a car accident.

I'm sorry. We took a wrong turn for brand new shoes. I didn't know where I thought this was going. She's like, what? As a result, she had trouble getting around. She often walked on crutches. One source said she broke her hip and was diagnosed with digestive tract issues, which I assume were not related. But that was nothing compared to what David was going through.

He had a brain aneurysm like a year after they got married. Oh, my gosh. I know. And in the summer of 2000, he became very ill. He'd been sick for a while, but in 2000, it got really bad. He was diagnosed with what? I was thinking about inserting a shitty comment about karma in there, but. This is why I hate this fucking case. Okay, I just do. Because we're supposed to feel a certain way. Yeah, you're supposed to feel bad for them. That's terrible.

Yeah, I know. This is why it sucks. Yeah. It's why it all sucks. All right. So what's happening with David now? He was diagnosed with hepatitis C and he had liver failure. Is he a drinker?

Okay. So he was a regular drinker. That's how it was described. But to me, regular drinker doesn't mean – He's not a heavy drinker. You're an alcoholic. That's not – But –

OK. All right. Also, to be clear, we're not happy that bad things are happening to these people. No, no, no. Let's just – Yeah. You know. You know.

He also had diabetes. Like Wilford Brimley. I love saying diabetes. Anytime someone says they have diabetes, to me, like, I take it too light because it just sounds like something you'd love to have. Diabetes. Yeah. Uh-oh. Yeah.

Look out. Yeah. Diabetes. Why do people say diabetes? I have no idea. It's definitely old white people, right? Oh, for sure. Yeah. I don't know why.

Why do they do that? I don't know. Anyway, David's poor health, diabetes, et cetera., took a big toll on him. First off, it was a huge hit financially. Because he couldn't work as a surgeon anymore. Very good, Brandy. One source said that he went from a surgeon salary to being on disability. But that –

He doesn't have like some – Yeah, no. So that has to be a little wrong because he kept working. Another source said he worked up until 1999. Another source said he was working in some capacity to the end. Well, I think if he co-founded some heart center, isn't he pulling in a salary without having to actually be operating? Yeah. I mean the dude had a desk job if he wanted it, I'm sure, right?

Anyway, so Stephanie and David were having problems, health problems, financial problems. Marital problems? Depending on who you asked. Oh, okay. Also, depending on who you asked, David was depressed. Okay. That would make sense. He had to wear an insulin pump and just pray that he'd get a liver transplant soon.

Stephanie said that David was very depressed about his health. She says he told her he wasn't even really interested in getting a liver transplant. Wow. That's how down he was. Wow. Mm-hmm. Okay. Then came May 1st, 2001.

It was around 11 a.m., and the couple's live-in nanny said, see, this is why they can't just be living off disability. Yeah, they got a live-in nanny. Yeah. Well, how old are their kids? I mean, she's got little kids. His are grown. Do they have any kids together? No, no, no. They don't have any kids together, but she's got little kids. His are grown. Do they have any kids together? No, no, no.

They don't have any kids together, but they've got two. She had two daughters. Okay. What was that face for? Nothing. What? Nothing. What?

It's going to be judgy. I'm not saying it. I'm judgy all the time. I know. I'm not you, Kristen. I could never be you. Say it and we'll cut it. Well, thank goodness

they didn't have any kids together. Oh, gosh. Brandy, give me a break. That's not even going to get you an honorable mention for judging. I'm about to say

something really bad. We already said that we don't feel that bad for them for being sick because they... No, I mean, I feel bad that they got sick. Yeah. But, you know... Yeah. It's making me very uncomfortable. You are the company you keep, Brandy.

You hang out with a beautiful bitch like me. You are a beautiful bitch. Thank you. So the live-in nanny said around 11 a.m. she heard sounds of someone snoring before she left to go run errands. Two hours later, the nanny came back home and Stephanie came out of the primary bedroom crying. David was dead. She killed him. He'd been sad.

Okay. So he killed himself? Yeah. With an killed himself? Yeah. With an insulin overdose. Oh. But she killed him with an insulin overdose. Oh. He got some life insurance.

Oh. A whole shit ton of life insurance. Sorry. I need to sleep. They'd evidently been sleeping in. And when Stephanie woke up, David was purple. He was cold to the touch. She called their family physician and then she called 911.

Coroner Butch Benedict. What? That's an odd order to do that in. All right. Okay. What'd Butch Benedict do? Coroner stuff? Mm-hmm.

He was like, yep, this man is dead. No doubt about it. No, he arrived to find 59-year-old David dead, lying on his back with his arms crossed over his chest. He's only 59? I know. That's not that old. I know. I said he had liver spots.

It's really not that old. I don't think how old my dad's going to be this year. My dad has no liver spots. When was the last time you checked? Well, Jesus. Sorry. That was a really creepy thing. I was picturing a much older man.

Well, you know what? Hold on. Wait a minute. Hold up. Wait a minute. I said that Stephanie was a year older than Kristen. Yeah. You know what?

I'm thinking now I got those ages from two different parts in the story. I bet the age gap is bigger than that. Okay. Yeah. All right. Because she was in the family Sears photo. And you're not doing that if you're like 30. Probably not.

You might be. I don't know. Nobody's ever invited me to be in there seriously well clearly norman has i mean today we do look like we're both posing for us you know what we do we do look like we should be like back to back with our arms crossed and like our leg out with the foot up, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I do know exactly what you mean. Everyone, Norman opened the door for Brandy today, and he goes, one of us has to change. We both have jeans and a black shirt on. You look really cute together.

Yeah. So, Coroner Butch Benedict arrived at the house. He actually knew the couple. He'd been over to their house a few times, so he hugged Stephanie and consoled her, and they went over to David's body, and his insulin pump was hooked up to his side. Butch didn't have much experience with insulin pumps. In fact, this was the first time he'd ever seen an insulin pump on anyone. Yeah, because he's a coroner and probably not a doctor at all. No, I think he actually is.

Is he? Okay. I guess I don't know, but I think a lot of coroners are doctors, right? Most coroners are not doctors. It's an elected position. Gross. Yes, we talked about this on a previous episode, just like two episodes ago. I don't listen to anything you say. We talked about this on a previous episode, like just like two episodes ago. I don't listen to anything you say.

I have trouble believing that a doctor wouldn't know. I feel like an insulin pump is very common. Was it super common back in like 2000? 2001? I think so. I know multiple people who had them when we were in high school. Oh, yeah, I do too. Never mind.

Yeah, he for sure wasn't a doctor. And we would have been in high school approximately 2000, 2001. How dare you reveal my age. So he'd never seen one of these newfangled things before. All he knew was that Stephanie was very concerned about the insulin pump. She wanted to get it off of David. She wanted to get the batteries out. Fun fact, which Butch didn't

know at the time, but those devices have an internal memory and if you take the batteries out it clears the memory. Sure does. So she had poisoned him or she'd murdered him with an insulin overdose accident suicide or murder we just don't know it's a murder we have no idea

anyway butch wasn't suspicious this looked like a natural death hate this case but it's standard procedure to draw blood after someone dies. So, you know, his staff did that later. And meanwhile, David's daughter, Kristen, and her husband found out about David's death. And Kristen was like, uh-uh. She was immediately suspicious. And she was devastated because she'd lost both her parents. Suspicious.

And she was devastated because she lost both her parents. Yeah. Kristen and her husband lived in North Carolina, but they immediately hauled ass to Mississippi. Yeah. They got there within 24 hours of her father's death. Was her husband's name Norm? I don't know. Fuck. Wouldn't that have been something?

It sure would have been. Mm-hmm. They have a little boy named been. Mm-hmm. They have a little boy named David. Aww. Mm-hmm. Kristen said that as soon as she walked into the primary bedroom, she knew that Stephanie had done

something. Mm-hmm. Because on the bed were all of her father's financial records. Well, for fuck's sake! Right? You can't pretend? Boo-hoo-boo! Where's that life insurance policy again?

Oh my gosh! She turned towards Stephanie, shoved her up against the wall, and said, You killed my mother, and you killed my father. Prepare to die. I hope you rot in hell, you bitch.

Okay. Well, that's pretty good. Yeah. I thought she was going to do like a Princess Bride thing. I don't think this was the time or place. Brandy. Sorry. Yeah, she turned and was like, call the locksmith.

Call the locksmith. That's from The Princess Bride. No, that's from Robin Hood Men in Tights. Sorry. Same guy. Damn right. If you were a real friend, you would have made that leap with me. Damn right. If you were a real friend, you would have made that leap with me. No problem.

Didn't I do that? God, in like one of our earliest episodes, I did that with Tom Hanks movies. I mixed up Sully and Captain Phillips. Two very similar movies. Kristen loves film. Yep, almost as much as I love sports. Kristen wasn't the only one who wanted Stephanie to rot in hell. In town, the tongues, they were a wagon.

No, no. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done that. Hattiesburg. Hattiesburg. You know what? Hattiesburg has a population. You know what? This feels, on these weeks, when we do two in a week, Wednesday feels like a delicious Friday before a three-day weekend.

It does. And, like, I'm doing the last case of the episode. Feeling real crazy. Hattiesburg, Mississippi, has a population of about 50,000 people. So pretty big city. And it is home to some incredible Victorian homes. Oh, fuck. Wrap around porches.

Ooh. Turrets. Ooh. Hanging ferns. Fuck. White rocking chairs. Yes. Also, I know some people

don't give a shit about this what kind of trees did they have Kristen they had very tall beautiful pines and other trees as well don't act like you care i was watching the b-roll like oh look at those pines and i thought you know who wouldn't give a shit me andy so i think you get the idea it's a small place and people were talking and people were agreeing.

People are talking. Talking about people. Stephanie's a murderer. I think she killed him. Anyway, get a load of this. You sounded like a mix of Fergie and Jesus. Jesus? Kristen, watch a movie.

What? It feels like a lightning bolt just hit the tip of my penis. That sounds like a low-class film. It's a film called Step Brothers. Step Brothers. class film. It's a film called Step Brothers. And one of them says to the other, you sound like a mix of Fergie and Jesus.

That's hilarious. Not too long after David's deathhanie called up the coroner wanting the death certificate you know you gotta get that money right yeah just quick right away there's papers that need to be filed there's insurance got them all laid out on the bed to not a moment to waste and the coroner said well you know we're out on the bed. All laid out on the bed. Not a moment to waste. And the coroner said, well, you know, we're waiting on the toxicology report. And Stephanie said, you drew blood? Well, that's a weird fucking response unless you've murdered someone.

The whole thing kind of made him go eww, which is the sound people make when they wonder if their friend murdered their spouse. It kind of makes you say uh, uh, uh, na-na-na-na. In fact, all around town, people were going uh, na-na-na-na.

In the 48 Hours episode, a very daring reporter met with some ladies at the exclusive local country club to talk shit about Stephanie. It's my favorite part of the episode. It was amazing. Picture it. I am. Four old white ladies. Not a hair out of place on any of them.

What is going on on your watch? Who wrote you a novel? My sister. Don't worry about it. It of them. What is going on on your watch? Who wrote you a novel? My sister. Don't worry about it. It's fine. What's happening? Nothing important. Tell the world all her troubles.

She said, I got a weird email from the assisted living facility where my grandmother lives. And they said that she needed to sign a form and send it back. And she was telling my mom that she doesn't think that it was supposed to come to her. It is weird that my sister would get the form. It is weird. My mom is my grandmother's caretaker. Does she suspect foul play? I don't think so.

Seems like more of a clerical error. You always go for the most boring explanation, don't you? So all these little old ladies are sitting around this man. And after one woman would say something, all the rest of them would go, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It's true. Ooh, I love it. One lady said that Stephanie was loud. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's true. That doesn't mean anything. That'shmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that doesn't mean anything. That's fine. Lots of people... You know what else they said? Oh, no. She didn't present herself as a lady. Well, shit. Mm-hmm.

It's true. And she stole another woman's husband. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's true. Stephanie was also interviewed for 48 hours and she tried to defend herself. She knew she'd done an unpopular thing.

She'd had an affair. But I submit, so did he. Yes, he also had an affair. OK, this is what drove me absolutely fucking bonkers about this whole thing, especially the American Justice episode, which was all about – People are only pissed at her. They're not pissed at David. Yes.

And they talk about like the lead up. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it's, oh, she was after – she told me she was there for a doctor. I don't – I find that kind of hard to believe. Yeah. That someone would start a new job and be like, I'm here to meet a doctor. I feel like, yeah, maybe she came in. She was too flirty. She – you know.

But he's not some helpless little thing. Yeah, no. He was getting something out of this. Yes. Of course he was. Well, tell this yes of course he was well tell that to everyone in hattiesburg i'll be sure to you know i'm gonna do i'm gonna get uh one of those planes that flies the banner behind it and i'm just gonna fly it around town for a little bit. What's it going to say?

It's going to be a long-ass banner. No. It's just going to say, David had an affair too. And people are going to be like, who the fuck is David? There's too many Davids in this town. We're going to need you to be more specific.

And then I'm going to have to get a second flyer to fly behind it that's going to say, you know the one I'm talking about. Because I don't want to name names. You know what I'm going to do? What? I'm going to rent a bus, which is much cheaper. Oh. And I'm just going to write on the side, takes two to tango.

Oh, but then people are just going to be like, oh, is that an advertisement for dance classes? No. And I will have two stick figures dancing with like a line through it. So they'll know. They'll have a new dance studio in class. Absolutely not. Oh, hun, hun, let's sign up for salsa classes.

I saw an ad on a bus today! You know what hun would say to you? What? Oh, you think salsa and tango are the same thing? You dumb bitch! No, what he's going to say is, you know what? If you want salsa, I'll take you to a Mexican restaurant, but I'm not going dancing, Nancy. Har har.

That's probably exactly. That's exactly what would happen. I can picture the couple, can't you? This is ridiculous. I have fun with this, though. This is ridiculous. I have fun with this, though. Like, saying something and then picturing the people who are texting. Okay, I'm sorry, another tangent.

On Monday night, when we went to the place that was too young and cool for us, they had drink specials. Yeah. And so I ordered what I assumed was like a lemon drop martini. And the lady was like, well, just so you know, that's a shot because she's looking at my old ass face. She's like, this woman on a Monday night did not come in here to take one shot and eat a Caesar salad. So we started talking today about like, let's all imagine the person. The person who comes into this bar on a Monday night, orders a lemon drop. So we started talking today about like, let's all imagine the person. The person who comes into this bar on a Monday night, orders a lemon drop shot and a Caesar salad and is thrilled with it. This is my night out.

I'm getting lit tonight. I'm getting lit. Tonight. Anyway, Nancy is not getting Bill to go to salsa classes. Absolutely not. Part of it is. I'm sorry. My mind has gone on and I'm like, Bill is too homophobic. Yes.

He thinks that I can just picture. I can picture what he'd say. It's inappropriate to say. Yes. I don't like Bill one bit. Yeah. No. Nancy, you know.

Mm-hmm. I don't know. You know. And Nancy. Nancy's really upset. She's like, all right. I understand. And then she has a martini.

And a Caesar salad. Yeah. Comes back around. It sure does. In the interview with 48 Hours, Stephanie said, just because people don't like me doesn't make me a killer. Meanwhile, the coroner was like, maybe people don't like you and you're a killer. I mean, he didn't really say that, but that was his vibe.

He'd just gotten the results back from David's blood work, and he'd found something suspicious in David's blood. Crazy high insulin levels? No, which I thought the same thing. Would she put something else in his pump? Yeah. Would she put it in? Okay, so there was a chemical in his blood that is typically administered by anesthesiologists, which is a word that you've got to just go real slow.

You did great with it. Don't you condescend to me. No, I'm being serious. You know what this reminds me of? What? When I was in surgery and the anesthesiologist afterwards said, You did a great job. That woman had knocked me the fuck out forologist afterwards said, you did a great job. That woman had knocked me the fuck out for it.

How could I do a bad job? Oh, maybe if I pooped on the staff. I imagine that happens. But you know what happens? Afterward, the people who say you did a bad job, you pooped on everybody. I. Can you imagine? I don't even.

That would be hilarious. No gold star for you. Now, I remember when I had my thyroid surgery and I was like, have I told you this story? I don't know. They were like, okay, you know, I checked it and they're like, okay, you know, take all your clothes off, get in this gown. And I was like, do I take my underwear off? And they're like. Yeah, of course you do.

Yeah. You know, just in case. You never nude? Just in case you urinate during surgery. And I was like, I didn't realize that was why. Okay. And I was like, what happens if I don't take them off? And they're like, well, you could wake up with wet underwear.

Yeah, and be really disturbed. And I was like, I'm willing to risk it. So I kept my underwear on. Did you wake up with wet underwear? No. I figured worst case scenario, I got to get somebody to get me some clean underwear. You really are a never nude. Yeah! This is not

just a bit. No! I left my undies on. My surgery was on my throat! There was no reason they needed my panties to be off. I showed up buck naked that day. You walked in naked! I had my mask on. I had my braggers to help!

They were like, ma'am, please. Please. You can't just have those titties out. Please put a top hat on them. The thing I don't like about those gowns is they want you to leave it open to the back. Yeah. I think that's wild times. Well, because they're going to take it off you.

I know what they're going to do. But I like to pretend like that's not what's going to happen. So with the throat, they just like fold it down, I think. I don't think they take the whole thing off. I don't know, though. I could have been. But you know what? Undie's on.

So nobody saw my cooter that day. I've had a kid since then, though. Whole bunch of people saw my cooter then. How I've had a kid since then, though. Whole bunch of people saw my cooter then. How did you deal with that? It was rough. Doctor, can you look away? I had a man I'd never met before elbow deep in my cooter. Man.

Yeah. And that was after the birth. So we're not sure what he was doing. And that was after the birth. So we're not sure what he was doing. Anyway, should we get back to the case? No, because now I'm going to tell about after my surgery, they were like, now you have to pee. Because, you know, I guess they want to make sure they hadn't accidentally tied everything up down there or something.

So, I mean, you know, I had surgery on my lady bits yeah and lady bits that sounds like on your ovaries yeah i had fallopian tubes so anyway you know there's no keep your underwear on for that kind of surgery it was all you know who knows how many people saw my cooter that day yeah upwards of awards of a thousand possibly. I hate that happening. I don't think they were live streaming it. So, you don't know. Maybe I had a – what? What? Maybe that's something on the dark web.

Probably. Probably is. Probably. Fuck. Just search Kristen's cooter fallopian tubes. Anyway, what I'm trying to tell you is after the surgery, they wanted me to pee. Yeah. And, you know, I was like weebing and wobbling, couldn't make it.

So, like, the nurse was, like, holding me up, helping me get up. But, like, you know, I wasn't in, like, my nice little private room. I had to, like, walk down. room. I had to like walk down. A hall. Yeah. So Norm was on the other side and I was like, and I turned to the nurse. I was like, will you please cover up my butt? Because I didn't want people to see my butt.

She kind of laughed at me. I think because a thousand people had just looked at my cooter from every possible angle. It's true. And here I am like, Please, please, I'd hate for someone to catch a shot of my crack. No one must catch a two-second glimpse of my butt. After a surgeon stared into the abyss of my vagina for hours. I don't think they go in through the vagina.

They don't. They go through the belly button. But there's nothing to stop them from staring into my vagina. Yeah, and it is so captivating. It's like one of those kaleidoscopes. it's like one of those kaleidoscopes oh people are gonna hate this episode but people have been asking for stories about your vagina about our vaginas and surgery and like hey you keep those things covered during surgery do you you? We get that question all the time.

And there we go. We finally answered it. Brandy keeps it covered. I don't. Now quit asking about it. And let me get back to this. Oh, Lord. Okay.

Something in David's blood. Okay, here we go. This is typically administered by anesthesiologists. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's called etomidate. I don't think that's how it's pronounced. Etomidate.

Okay. Etomidate. It's an anesthetic that knocks people off. Illuminati. Y'all haters corny with that Illuminati mess. So by this point, a detective with a truly awesome name and a very unimpressive mustache got involved. His name was Rusty Keys.

Oh, shit! Right? What? Is that not the coolest? That's the best name? Detective Rusty Keys. What does mustache look like? Terrible.

It's one of those, like, sir, you can't grow one, and that's fine. Not everyone needs a mustache like I do. Yours looks great. Thank you. I shaved it.

So he went and talked to Stephanie about the blood work, and she claimed that she had never heard of that drug. And he was like, You're a fucking nurse. You're a surgical nurse. And you've never heard of that drug? They ended up exhuming David's body. Oh, shit. They did more tests.

They found another drug called atricurium. It relaxes muscles during surgery when people are on life support. But if you're not on life support when they administer it, it'll kill you. So they started to suspect that Stephanie had put those drugs in his insulin pump and killed him. Yeah. They couldn't find any other injection sites on his body. So, yeah, it was the insulin pump for sure. This case came together very slowly, though, which is another reason that I hate it.

And so in the meantime, Stephanie started banging her 29-year-old handyman, who unfortunately was named Chris Watts. Oh. Ooh. About a year after David died, Stephanie received an $80,000 annuity. And with that, she and Chris took off to Las Vegas and got married. And wow, they had a magical time together because they blew through 80 grand in like four weeks. Jeez. But old Rusty Keys was closing in on Stephanie because, get this,

every year on May 1st, David's MetLife pension fund would mail him about an option to cash out. And every year, he declined. But on the year he died, he had decided to cash out. His signature on that document was dated for May 31st, the day before he died. But MetLife doesn't even mail those documents out until May 1st. Oh. So someone had forged his signature, and that someone was arrested and charged with murder. And not a moment too soon, because he had been dead for 15 months.

Wow. And I mean, come on. This is why another reason I hate this. It's so obvious. Yeah. Finally, it was time for Stephanie's murder trial. But first, the defense requested a change of venue because everyone in town hated Stephanie Stevens.

And the judge was like, good point, but I'm not going to do a change of venue. I'm going to compromise. He said the jury would come from outside the immediate area. So they moved forward with a jury of people who'd never heard of Stephanie Stevens. This was the first jury trial in Mississippi that was filmed in its entirety. From gavel to gavel. Ooh! As they said on American Justice.

Mm-hmm. And I must say, Stephanie looked quite lovely in court. She showed up dressed all in white. Oh. She had on a... It's a bold choice. Kind of angelic, am I right? Or trying too hard.

Oh, mm-hmm. Or you look like an angel of death. Oh, shit. A little too on the nose. Could go a lot of ways. She had on a white ankle-length gown, a white cardigan, and a pearl earrings and a pearl necklace. And I'll thank you not to be gross i didn't say anything what fucking year is it uh gosh like early 2000s i mean it wasn't super um it doesn't sound real trendy no it wasn't it was more like a classicent person look. Oh, okay. Classic innocent person.

I also think, and you know, this could be wrong, but I also wonder if maybe she was trying to look a little older. Oh, okay. All right. So, I think she looked pretty good, which was fitting because the courthouse in Hattiesburg is beautiful. Gorgeous woodwork, original light fixtures, schoolhouse lights as far as the eye can see. Also, a Confederate monument outside, which is kind of ironic because conservatives hate participation trophies. The prosecutor told the jury that Stephanie had done this she'd been motivated by greed

but Stephanie's public defender Ray Price who talked so slowly you'd think he was about to fall asleep said that this whole thing was a witch hunt to frame Stephanie.

Are you exaggerating? For murder. Also. This is painful. David died by suicide. And Stephanie had nothing to do with it. It was ridiculous how slowly this man talked. The prosecution's theory was that Stephanie had used David's insulin pump to put drugs in his system that killed him.

They theorized that Stephanie had been experimenting with getting the dosing rate. You want to get it right so you don't mess it up. Get it right or be the brace. For at least 24 hours before she killed him. To prove that, David's friend, Dr. Clark Sauls, said that he and David hung out the day before David died and David seemed very sleepy. He actually fell asleep mid-conversation while they were drinking coffee. Wow. Uh-huh.

Yeah. An anesthesiologist testified that the drugs that were in David's system both look like insulin. They look like water. So in theory, if they were replaced with insulin, you wouldn't know it by looking at it. Yeah. This anesthesiologist also testified that they peaked down your undies. No! The prosecution also argued that David couldn't have died by suicide because these drugs had to be given in order.

First, you knock the person out. Then you give them the drug that kills them. So he couldn't have knocked himself out and then given himself the second drug. Yeah, OK. Are you ready for the smoking gun? Yes. As further proof that David was in fact murdered and didn't die by suicide, the prosecution showed the jury an intake form from the wellness center in town. David had recently filled it out with goals for his physical fitness.

This was very compelling evidence because obviously no one would kill themselves after they filled out a worksheet about their physical fitness goals. That's their evidence? I think it's pretty lame, but I love it. Who would kill themselves after filling out this worksheet right here? I get what they're saying. You know, you maybe wouldn't be like, that's weak sauce. I agree.

Personally, I wouldn't have included the worksheet. But you get what they're trying to do. Yeah. The prosecution also had some wild witnesses. Karen Burnett took the stand. She apparently was a friend of Stephanie and Chris Watts's, and she'd attended their wedding in Las Vegas. And she told the jury that Stephanie told her that David said he wanted to die and asked her to help him die. And she said that she had.

What? I mean, that's possible. Yeah. Assisted suicide. Mm-hmm. Stephanie's defense attorney got annoyed with this because his client was on trial for murder, not assisted suicide. But in Mississippi, both of those things are illegal. Yeah.

During cross-examination, he asked Karen some uncomfortable questions. Turns out about a year after David died, someone broke into Stephanie's house and stole like everything. What? They took her bed. They took like a ton of furniture, like decor, like all kinds of stuff. Was it David's adult children? Well, get a load of this. A lot of that stuff was found in a storage unit that had been opened in Karen's name.

Oh. Yeah. My thought was that it was like, well, I'm going to come get our dad's shit back. That's exactly what I thought, too. No, it's like Stephanie's friend, Karen, who was at her wedding, possibly. Yikes. So the defense attorney was like, well, we can't trust you. And he tried to get her testimony thrown out.

And the judge was like, we are keeping it. And the defense was pissed. And I scrolled too far in my script. And I scrolled too far in my script. He was like, clearly this lady has some sort of deal, either implicit or explicit, in exchange for her testimony. She is a perjurer, which is not spelled how you think it's spelled. But he wasn't going to win that argument, so he had to settle for a very aggressive cross-examination. He asked Karen to explain to the jury how items from Stephanie's house ended up in her storage unit.

How is perjurer spelled? P-E-R-J-U-R-E-R? Fuck you. I was looking for a G. Couldn't find the G. Turns out it's not there. Karen said she couldn't explain it. Couldn't explain how to spell perjurer and couldn't explain how all of Stephanie's crap ended up in her storage unit.

How dumb are you? You're stealing all her stuff and then putting it in a storage unit? Storage unit in your own name? Yeah. You're dumb. What's the point of that? What, are you going to sell it? I don't really know.

Okay. Also, it's decor. Yeah. Who steals decor? Someone who robs of home goods. Who steals the? Someone who robs of home goods. Who steals DePille? What? What?

It's so dumb. I couldn't even get it out. Who steals DePille? What is that even? What are you trying to say? What? There's two parts of an apple that peel in the core. Are you serious?

Oh, God. Patty, here's the thing. She's going to try to get you to cut that later. Don't do it. Karen's husband, John, was supposed to testify that he'd also heard Stephanie admit to assisted suicide, which is not a funny thing. I'm just laughing at Brandy's stupid joke. But when he got on the stand, he pled the fifth. Wow.

Stephanie's new husband, Chris Watts, was also expected to take the stand, but he couldn't be bothered because he'd recently – this is ridiculous. He was in prison for seven years for trying to have his ex-girlfriend killed. Jesus, these people are just off and people left and right. Well, he tried to hire undercover federal agents to do the job. So that's how that worked out. That's not who you want for the job. want for the job. When the defense took over, they called a bunch of witnesses who hated Stephanie,

which made things super tense. They called David's daughter Kristen to the stand and the defense asked her about the possibility that her dad died by suicide. She said, if someone were to tell me that my father committed suicide, I wouldn't believe it. It wasn't possible having known my my father, for that to have been possible. I don't care what kind of evidence you have. Defense. You definitely don't want to admit that to this jury, do you? Wow. Kristen. It's not that I don't want to admit it. To me, that's fact. My father would have never committed suicide. The defense also called Dr. Philip Rogers, David's personal physician, and Dr. Phil said that David had been in good spirits. He was looking forward to his liver transplant. Dr. Phil said that? Dr. Phil said it.

Brandy's best friend, Dr. Phil. How dare you but the defense asked him well if david had told you i'm so depressed i'm suicidal you'd have to report that to the board of licensure wouldn't you and the doctor said yes yeah defense so he had a lot of motivation not to tell you these things. Does he not? Dr. Phil, possibly. Yeah, that's good. I agree. The defense also called Detective Keyes to the stand and accused him of ignoring from the start the possibility that this had been a suicide. Rusty Keyes said that he looked down every avenue,

but wasn't led down the road of suicide, and I would like to applaud him for sticking with that metaphor all the way. The defense also called a psychologist named Dr. Gerald O'Brien to the stand, and he said that there were several factors in this case that led him to believe that you could not rule out suicide as a possibility. He said that with David's terminal illness, his history of regular drinking, and the fact that his grandfather either attempted suicide or died by suicide, you know, it all kind of added up. Plus, David died on May 1st, 2001, which was six years after Karen's funeral. And people sometimes die by suicide around significant dates.

He told the jury suicide would have to be considered a very realistic possibility in this case. So I'm going to pause. What are you thinking? I don't think he died by suicide. I don't either, but I think the defense did. I think they did a good job. Yeah. I think there's enough question there that as a jur. I think they did a good job. Yeah.

I think there's enough question there that as a juror I might not be able to find her guilty. Oh, really? I think it's... I don't know. The thing that I feel

like points the most to guilty is that the drugs had to be administered in order and he couldn't have done that himself. Right. So maybe I probably would find her guilty. What about you? Yeah, I think I'd find her guilty. Yeah.

I think the fact that she took that insulin pump so quickly, took the batteries out of it, like that just seems like a weird move. Yeah. Because it had an on-off switch. So you could just turn it off. Yeah. I think with him being a doctor, if he did want to die by suicide, I would think that they would – well, were there places you could go back in this time period? I don't know that you could. I don't know.

I think he would just be more careful. Yeah. To not implicate her if – yeah. The jury deliberated for 90 minutes. They found Stephanie Stevens guilty. She was immediately sentenced to life in prison and she genuinely didn't see it coming. That morning she left her curlers at home. She left her clothes out for the next day.

She was stunned by the guilty verdict. Wow. She appealed, but none of her appeals were successful. And she died in prison three years later from pneumonia. Wow. Yeah, she was 38. Yeah. Kristen was interviewed a little while after the verdict, and of course, she was happy that the jury found Stephanie guilty.

She said something kind of interesting. She said that with all this going on with her mother dying, then her dad dying and feeling like Stephanie had such a major role in both of their deaths. That now with Stephanie finally behind bars, Kristen said it felt like for the first time she was finally able to grieve the deaths of both of her parents. Wow. And that's that story. That you hate so much. Yeah. So I hate it because to me it feels pretty obvious that she did it.

Yeah. And I hate that like it took so long to get justice. That just sounds like a horrible thing for the family to have to go through. And I hate how Karen died. I hate it. Absolutely. and I hate that obviously you know David's a victim

and we need to feel bad for him and everything but like that doesn't mean that he needs to be completely let off the hook for everything he ever did you know he had the affair too so it doesn't need to be like all yeah all Stephanie 100% evil all the the time. That's right.

Anyway. That's that. That is that. Oh goodness. What do you think? Should we take some questions from the Discord? Yes, I think we should. And Brandi, do you know how they get into the Discord? To get into this Discord? To get in to

this Discord, all you have to do is join our Patreon at any level. And you get on in there. It's like a fun little chat room. There's all kinds of other people in here. You know, we ask for questions when we record. It's a good time.

It's a good time. Cindersoot wants to know, what MLM do you hate the most and why? Oh, I really hate MLMs. Yeah. I mean, Beachbody is what goes to mind. Because I think they prey on people who feel insecure. Yeah, I think that prey on people who feel insecure. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's terrible. Yeah, I mean, at least with – how am I starting a sentence that way? You're going to defend LuLaRoe right now? I'm going to say that at least with LuLaRoe, I don't know, maybe some people were happy about those hideous leggings. I mean, I've always wanted the Leaning Tower of Pizza to come, like, out of my vagina. First of all, it's the Leaning Tower of Pizza. Isn't that what I said? Did I say pizza? Yeah.

I want a Leaning Tower of Pizza. Pizza. Coming't that what I said? Did I say pizza? Yeah. I want a leaning tower of pizza. Coming toward my mouth. KitKatB83 says, Brandy, what's your favorite brand of flippy floppies? Have you tried Yellow Box? I have worn a Yellow Box flippy floppy in my day. I like a real cushy flipippy floppy, in my day. I like a real cushy flip-flop, though. So I like a reef flip-flop.

I also like a rocket dog. I've got my rocket dogs on right now. And Kristen's got her red rocket out. I call that a leaning tower of pizza. She has a question for you on here, too. Kristen, what's your favorite salad dressing? I don't know. Something homemade. You like a nice homemade dressing?

Yeah. What do you whip up? Does it got Greek yogurt in it? No. Sometimes? No, it really doesn yogurt in it? No. Sometimes. No, it really doesn't. Well, sometimes it does. You make a green guy's dressing?

What do you make? Would you calm down? I'm sorry. I'm kind of excited. I like to do a vinaigrette. Oh, I do like a vinaigrette because I like a bite. Mm-hmm. I like to be a little scared when I eat a salad.

I do. You know what I do. Mm-hmm. Okay. Jesus. What do you do? This is like the thing where I put a Cheez-It in my mouth and then I drink a bite to swallow a Diet Coke. No, I get a Caesar salad.

Okay. And I do the Caesar. You do a shot. I do Caesar dressing. Uh-huh. But then I do a drizzle of olive garden dressing with it too, because then it's like a zesty Caesar.

So good. I'm sorry. I want you to do this on TikTok. Just eating tips. It's just going to be me putting a dove chocolate in my mouth and letting it melt. See how you do it. And I want people to be like, oh, it turns out she also has a podcast. I don't want it to be an image of the podcast at all.

It's just me with my weird food tips. I could show people how to eat a Swiss roll. Oh, yeah. You dissect them. Yeah, you gotta take the chocolate off first. That's how I eat

a Three Musketeers, too. What? You take the chocolate off the outside first and then you eat the fluff. Well, then you've just got that weird fluff that you told me

is not nougat. The internet says it is nougat, so I don't want to have this argument. No, the internet said I was right. Lorenzo Monte Carlo wants to know, do you rerecord the intro and outro each week?

We sure do. Yeah. Yeah, that's recorded fresh each week. It's a fresh boy. That's right. Superficial Glowworm wants to know, okay, what's the weirdest thing you watch on YouTube slash TikTok? I watch blackhead extraction videos and my husband thinks it's disgusting. I watch those too.

It is disgusting. Yeah, it's not for me. Okay, Brandy can't even handle it. It's absolutely disgusting. But once I hit play, I cannot look away. See, you're making this face because you've never had a blackhead before. I have had it. I have a zit right now. Shut up. It's right here. Shut up everyone. Brandi came over. I can't even find it. Exactly like a kid in show and tell. Meanwhile I have two massive zits that are lined up on my chin quite nicely.

I mean, they're really... Oh, God. Oh, my God. Makes half my face look bigger. Stop it. The one on top is going to be a gush. Well, I don't know about that. You do.

You think one zit's making it not beautiful? First of all, there's two. How dare you? I only see one. Well, Harold's down here. Okay. This top one's going to be a gusher. It looks like my face is inflamed on this side.

Anyway, what gross stuff do you watch, Brandy? Or weird. We'll settle for weird. What do you watch, Brandy? Or weird. We'll settle for weird. What do I watch that's weird? There's a guy on TikTok that I like that makes old weird recipes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the British guy? No, this guy's not British.

Oh. This guy's just kind of wacky and zany and he's got a lot of energy when he does it. He made a tomato soup cake. He said it was delicious. I feel like we're talking about the same person. Is he British? I don't think my guy's British. Maybe he just has like a British.

He has just like a fun way of talking. I don't think he has an accent. See, I lost confidence. It's kind of a small, cute kitchen. Yeah, cute little kitchen. Yeah, same guy. He's got a British vibe. He's got a British vibe. He's got a British vibe.

Geriatric Sasquatch asks, when did you and Brandy drift apart as friends and how did you two reconnect? Asking especially because I recently moved back to an area with former friends who I'd love to reconnect with. Oh, I love this question. Yeah, this is a great question. Okay, so we really only drifted apart because we were living apart. Yeah, you moved to the East Coast for college and I stayed here. And we kept up with each other like on Facebook and stuff. Right.

Yeah, but yeah, you reached out. You sent a message one day and you're like, I was thinking about you. I'd love to get together and have dinner if you are open to it. And I was like, fuck yes. And we got, I think we were both super nervous. Oh my gosh, I was so nervous. We were both so nervous. Because we hadn't seen each other in

years. Yeah, literal years. Yeah. And it was like, this could be really weird. Yeah, and it was not at all. So weird. It was so weird. No, we closed the restaurant down. We were there for forever. And it was so at all. So weird. It was so weird. No, we closed the restaurant down. We were there for forever. And it was so much fun.

It felt so good. It was so fun. Yes. Thank God you sent that message. I think about that a lot. Like, I'm so glad, like, I did it. I'm so glad you said yes. Yeah.

Because, like, oh, my gosh. And then I remember even being kind of nervous to ask you to do the podcast. It was like, you know, I mean, it's a huge ask. Yeah. But it's been so amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, I mean, just, just got to ask.

Yeah. You got to reach out. Yeah. Send out the invitation. Yeah. It's scary. It is scary. And I just remember because I, I think part of it was I was like I I never

stopped thinking about you yeah same but I didn't know of course you don't know yeah and so it was kind of like oh gosh is this gonna feel for her like totally weird because I mean it had been like 10 years yeah probably close to 10 years yeah yeah But like I was back in town and I was kind of like, well, I miss her. I mean, I guess, you know, the worst thing she could say is, I'm very busy. Also busy tomorrow. Also the day after. But luckily, your schedule was wide open. But luckily, your schedule was wide open. I was wide open.

Mom Moss Mob Boss says, did you ever think the podcast would have this much success? No. No. No. It has been so humbling and incredible to, like, especially our numbers lately have been really good. Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible. To think that people are listening to our dumbasses like all over the world.

I know. It's – I can't even wrap my brain around it. And it makes me so happy when people reach out and say that the podcast brings them joy. Yes. Oh, man. Because honestly, it brings us joy to do it. Yes. Because honestly, it brings us joy to do it.

And yeah, so that that translates to other people is just an amazing feeling. Yeah. Yeah. I think there – it's also like there are things like books and TV shows and stuff like that have given me joy and comfort over the years that I like watch again and again. It's like the idea that we could provide that for somebody is so cool. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Also probably really anxiety inducing to some. Oh, well, there's a bad side to it.

There we go. There we go. There's that negativity. Yeah, you just got to bring the anxiety in. Think of all the bad things we've done. Oh, my God. Doll Socks wants to know, have either of you or would you ever ride a mechanical bull? Probably not.

I would. I'd be so excited. I really wouldn't want people to watch. Yeah, exactly. That's the thing is that I would do it if it was in a private room and no one else was around just to see how I could do it. Yeah. No, that's not how those work. I know.

I know. I mean, you know, I'd probably land in a very degrading. Yeah, exactly. I feel like it'd be butthole up for sure. For sure. Yeah. So, I mean, probably not. But I have always felt like, you know, I feel like I could hang on for a while what what's that

face for well somebody asked a question that I don't I don't even understand the question what's the question I'm gonna ask you it and then you can decide if you know the question switchblade sucks because I have to know are you guys team wheels or team doors? Oh, someone, maybe the same person, asked this question last week. I thought it was very intriguing. The question is, what do you think there is more of in the world, wheels or doors? Oh, wheels. I think doors.

Wheels come in sets of four well first of all there are bicycles that's true and unicycles but like think look at how many doors are in the house yeah

oh maybe yeah right I bet there are more doors alright there you go okay yeah but really makes you think

doesn't it it does because like think about a house. A house has a couple cars at it and then like a lawnmower, a couple bicycles. I mean, there's a stand right there with four wheels. I'm going back to wheels. More wheels. I'm sticking with doors.

Okay. We're divided on this issue. Cabinet doors. Yeah. Car doors. Car doors. Uh-. Yeah. Car doors. Car doors! Uh-huh.

Spinning wheels. So many spinning wheels. What about the wheel in the sky? What? Keeps on turning. I am moving. What about the wheel of time? How many wheels does that count as?

Oh, my God. Shit Magnet wants to know, how do you make friends as an adult? We don't know. We had to reconnect. Yeah, we just reconnected. The only way to do it. Is to reconnect with your childhood friends. Personally, I haven't made a new friend since I was 17. That's right.

No, that's not true. It's not true. It is very difficult to make friends as adults, though. Kristen, this is a question for you. Did you know when Lincoln was president, is it hard editing Norm's voice to make new gaming historian videos?

We're going to have to cut that, Patty. Because Norm is very much alive. DixonSider says, my friends and I were discussing this the other day. If you married a super old guy for his money, would you rather have to have sex with him or change any diaper situation he might have? You only have to do one. have to do one? I mean, it would have to be sex because there's a limit to how many times a day he's going to

be able to have sex, but he can fill that diaper up just multiple times. Multiple times. Right? Yeah. Sorry to tell you, that's my answer. Chris is making the whole dude. Well, what are you doing? Yeah, I mean, probably.

I don't know. Don't compare London's cute little butt. That's what I'm going to say. I think maybe because I changed London's diapers, maybe I'm a little bit desensitized to it. So that seems like the easier ask to me. Yeah, and you are a never nude. Yeah. Well, there you go.

Yep. I'm changing diapers. Between the two of us, we've got that guy covered. Taken care of. Jess wants to know, Brandy, will Kristen be your maid of honor? And was she last time? So, no, Kristen was not my maid of honor at my first wedding because that was during that period where we didn't live close to each other. And, yes, I just asked Kristen to be my maid of honor.

And Norm made fun of us because I cried and Randy cried. And we're like, I love you. And you're like, I love you, too. You're my best friend. Yeah. And Norm told us to get a room. No, Norm did make fun of us quite a bit. He made a lot of fun of us.

But it was very exciting. Yes. Great Expectations says, favorite names. Just found out I'm pregnant. Congratulations. And we are struggling with boy names my husband likes Alfred oh no

please don't name your son Alfred Rusty Keys I always liked the name Chance for a boy I like weird names though we were going to name if London was a boy

we were going to name him Bear I know and I would have taken that baby from you because his name would have been Bear Pond which sounds like a place it does sound like a place my dad was like my dad was doing anything he could

to try and talk us out of that name he's like you, bears kill people. Here's the real story though. I never felt like there was any real chance that we were going to have a child named Bear. I just liked the idea of it because I knew very early on I could just sense that London was a girl. OK. Yep. So the whole bear pond debacle was just a thing you did to scare your parents.

And no, I legitimately like that. I know you. You had a favorite boy name. So, I mean, I like I like family names. Yeah. I think it's cool if you can find a name that is meaningful. But the downside to that is sometimes you end up with a name like Alfred. OK. So it's interesting that you say that. So we talked about – so David is a junior. So we did talk about if we had a boy that we would – could possibly name him David III.

We decided not to do that because David already has a son named Jackson. We felt like that was odd. Yeah. Yeah. We decided not to do that because David already has a son named Jackson. And we felt like that was odd. Yeah. Yeah. But I liked the idea of naming him after David. But David's middle name is McDowell and calling him McDowell because that's a family name. And I thought that would be really cool. That's a cool name.

Yeah. And he could be Mac. Yeah. That's what I said. I was like we'd call him Mac. Yeah. I kind of like that. But a Mac Pond sounds like a sandwich at McDonald's it does but then we could be like we could sing to him return of Mac

I like that song once again who doesn't yeah see my problem is my family is just filled with terrible names we'd have to go to Norman's side you wouldn't want to name your baby Daryl We'd have to go to Norman's side. You wouldn't want to name your baby Daryl? See, I kind of like the idea of naming the child after someone who has passed. Oh, okay. Because I don't like confusion. Yeah.

I get that because David and his dad are both named David. And they're like, who's on second? Who are you talking to? Yeah, but like, I mean, you know the names in my family. Unity Gooch. Yeah. That sounds like a joke. It's not. Yeah.

Santo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very real. Yes, those are actual names of Chris's family. It's not a joke. Little Baby Santo.

Little Baby Santo. Well, should we move on to Supreme Court Inductions? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do some Supreme Court Inductions. To be inducted on this podcast, what? I was already in the right spot.

I was just surprised at myself. Look at me. For being prepared. To be inducted on this podcast, you just have to sign up for our Patreon at the $7 level or higher. You get all kinds of stuff including bonus episodes, a sticker, a card with our lovely

autographs. You get into the Discord and, you know, you get inducted. Oh, also a monthly zoom call yeah don't forget the monthly zoom call i won't oh my gosh we have planned ahead sort of yes next week zoom call okay if you are listening to this on the day it comes out sign up for the patreon we are doing a zoom call that night what are we doing it on we don't know sometimes what cornflake cookies ew yes that's. What are we doing it on? We don't know. Sometimes what? Cornflake cookies.

Ew. Yes, let's do it. That's somebody's favorite cookie, and it sounds super fucking weird. They sent us the recipe. Let's make them. Okay, we're making cornflake cookies. Once again, you don't have to show your face on camera if you don't want to. No, you can just watch.

You can chat in the little chat. It is a fun time. Sometimes people have trouble and they accidentally respond directly to the person who last talked. Yeah. It's a funny thing. Anyway. Yeah. We can cut that.

No, it's great. It's all great. All right. We are continuing to read your names and favorite cookies. Allison. The chocolate chip cookies recipe on the back of the McCormick vanilla package. That took me a very long time to figure out that McCormick vanilla is the vanilla extract.

I was picturing like, I don't know what I was picturing. Anyway, this is not, I don't know. Alright. Anyway. Shannon Sosby. Coconut brown butter cookies from Smitten Kitchen. I gotta figure out these brown butter cookies. People are putting brown butter cookies all the time on here. Emily.

Brown butter chocolate chip with sea salt. Allison. Brown butter, no, I'm just kidding. Grammy Pammy's chocolate chip. Amy Alvarez. Double chocolate chunk cookies. Heather Stevenson. Chocolate oatmeal no-bakes.

Jess Hesgard. My mom's delicious Christmas cutouts. Nida F. Lemon bar. Is not a cookie, Nida. Cut that into a circle and you're getting close, but no cigar. Brandi Norris. Brown butter chocolate chip.

Chelsea. Mint slice. What's that? What is that? Chelsea, reach out. Tell us what a Mint Slice is. Joanne Baranofsky. Oreos.

Katie Burger. Chocolate Chunk. Morgan. Oatmeal Peanut Butter Chocolate Chip. Oh, too much stuff. It's too much stuff. Jennifer McElwee. Samoa Girl Scout Cookies.

Deb Bowley. Snickerdoodles. Welcome to the Supreme Court! Thank you, everyone, for all of your support. And if you made it through this episode... Oh, man. You got the heart of a champion. Oh, man.

You got the heart of a champion. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five-star rating and review. And then be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics.

Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from an episode of American Justice titled The Doctor's Wife and an episode of 48 Hours titled The Other Woman. I got my info from an episode of Dateline, articles for TruTV, Oxygen, and the Reno Gazette. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.