Let's Go To Court! - 208: Easter Sunday Massacre

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

Brandi really outdid herself this week by covering the most horrifying crime… ever??? James Urban Ruppert had a rough life. As he grew into adulthood, his struggles continued. He couldn’t hold a job. He couldn't maintain relationships. He had paranoid delusions. That all came to a head on Easter Sunday of 1975, when his entire extended family celebrated the holiday at his mother’s house. Also, please cue the Golden Girls theme song for Brandi. She told our only case this week so that Kristin could spend time with her grandma. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The 1975 Easter massacre: Uncle Jimmy Ruppert kills his family” by David J. Krajicek, New York Daily News “CRIME HUNTER: Easter Sunday massacre of Ohio family stunned U.S.” by Brad Hunter, Toronto Sun “James Ruppert” murderpedia.org “Easter Sunday Massacre” wikipedia.org “Mother, Brother Among James Ruppert’s Victims” by John R. Clark, The Cincinnati Enquirer “Grandmother Still Haunted By Memory” by Janet C. Wetzel, The Cincinnati Enquirer “Parole Hearing Not Due Til 95” by John R. Clark, The Cincinnati Enquirer “Officials Share Bitter Memories Of Ritter Case” by John R. Clark, The Cincinnati Enquirer “Ruppert Chronology” The Cincinnati Enquirer “Living in a murder house: Hamilton mom copes with her home's dark past” by Maxim Alter, WCPO 9 News YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 30+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about nothing. And I'll be talking about a family get-together. Ooh, did something go terribly wrong?

It does! Oh, gross. Is it a family annihilation at a barbecue? Is it? Oh, Brandy. You've gone really dark. This is going to be a dark, dark episode, folks. Wow, I'm so glad you saved such a sad, scary episode for this time in my life. Yeah.

Great. Great. Hi, everyone. Okay, so I guess let's start with Yeah, it's a weird week. Yeah, it's a weird week. Yes. So I don't have a case this week. We got some family stuff going on. Yeah, we put my grandma in hospice this week we got some family stuff going on yeah we put my grandma in hospice this week so i just focused on being with your family yeah absolutely as you should yeah so i reached out to brandy i was like hey here's what's going on she said i don't give a fuck i don't give a fuck about your family you better have a case ready for wed. Mm-hmm. No, obviously. That's the attitude that we embrace. Yeah. You know, actually, what I said was, you know what the problem is, is that no one wants

to work these days. Oh. Get off your ass and work. Fucking Kim Kardashian. Oh, Lord. Oh, Jesus. Also, no one becomes a billionaire just by working. Oh, Lord. Oh, Jesus. Also, no one becomes a billionaire just by working. Just FYI.

Yeah. Putting that out there. Yeah, you 100% exploit people. Man, you've come a long way, baby. Years ago, we started out this podcast, you were what we'd call a moderate. Now, listen to you. You've got no bootstraps anymore. So I do want to say, I don't mean to get sappy cheesy, but I will say it has been such a blessing this week to be like, to know that I make dick jokes for a living.

Yeah. And so. The world can go that I make dick jokes for a living. Yeah. And so – The world can go a week without dick jokes. Well, and also that was very flippant of me to say. That's what I said when my mom was like, well, you've got work to do. I was like, Mom, I make dick jokes for a living. Those things write themselves. But no, I just want to say thank you because like we've got a lot of very supportive listeners.

Absolutely. And obviously we couldn't do this without all of you listening. And I so appreciate that I'm able to just like, you know, not, you know, without a second thought really. It was just like, no, I'm going to spend time with my grandma this week. Yeah. And people will understand. Absolutely. Yeah. second thought, really. It was just like, no, I'm going to spend time with my grandma this week. Yeah. And people will understand. Absolutely. Yeah.

Thank you, listeners. Yeah. Yeah. Really do appreciate it. Absolutely. This is going to be a bummer of an episode. Oh, my case is so dark. When I said, when I told you what was going on this week, were you like, uh-oh, uh-oh.

Too late to turn back. Here's the deal. Okay. Okay. I tried to turn back. Here's the deal. Okay. Okay. I tried to find a different case. I'm sure you did. I read so many articles.

Yeah. And none of them. I know. Sometimes you can't course correct. You can't. I couldn't. I couldn't do it. Also, this thing, I don't know if it's carrying in the recording, but I've got, it's just allergies.

Because all the hottest chicks have really bad allergies. You know you're hot if you've got allergies. That's what they say. Have you ever seen that dumb thing on TikTok that's like, put this filter on, and if you're hot, that means you're whatever. Oh, yeah. If it looks natural, that means you're hot. If it looks natural that means you're hot. If it doesn't it means you're just pretty. Well, okay, here's

the new thing. If you've got allergies it means you're hot. That's right. If you can breathe normally. You're just pretty. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Uggos. Alright, you want to talk about a family get-together?

Oh, my God, Brandi. Fuck. Yes, I do, actually. Okay. Semi-old-timey disclaimer here. 60s? 70s. Okay.

Okay, you wouldn't think you would need an old-timey disclaimer. No, you would. The discrepancies in the news articles I found. Yeah. So I have gotten it as close to what I believe to be the facts, but you know, don't come for me if you read an article

that's different because they're out there. Okay. Also, shout out to my boy David Kraticek. Oh, my God. For an article for the New York Daily News. Also, multiple articles in the Cincinnati Inquirer. Okay. Okay.

I'll have you know. Okay. This gentleman that I'm going to tell you about. His name is James Rupert. but he spells it with two Ps. So I was very concerned that it was pronounced Rupert. Yeah. And so I had to search the archives of the internet. It's pronounced archives.

To find a video of his trial to hear his name pronounced to make sure I was pronouncing it properly. And it is Rupert. Very good. Anyway. Are you ready? I am ready. To be bummed. Honestly, I have been looking forward to this so much. Good.

I always look forward to this. I always do too. But I think's always... I always do too, but I think, you know, especially this week, it's like, gonna get lunch with my friend. Yeah. Gonna hear a dark story.

We went and ate Italian food and... Okay. So we get the check at the end of the meal, right? And I'm like signing the thing. And at the bottom, it says phone number.

This is a place we go regularly. And at the bottom, it says phone number. This is a place we go regularly. Yeah. It has never said phone number at the bottom of the thing before. But Brandy is looking hot today. I am not. I just look like my regular self. So I look at the waiter and I go, do you ask everybody for this or is this just for me? And then I spilled my cocktail on myself.

So I was pretty smooth. I like that he just goes, sup. Yeah, he did. He was like, what's up? And then you spilled your cocktail. And then I spilled my cocktail. I wasn't prepared for his comeback is what it was, yeah.

You were like, oh, heavens to Betsy. Oh, really heating up my broiler. You shouldn't have said that to him. What? That he's heating up my broiler? Yes. I did not say that. Yeah, in retrospect, you shouldn't have.

Anyway, go ahead. James Rupert was a disappointment. Oh. At least that's rude. At least that's how he believed his family saw him. Oh, okay. One of these. You got an all black water bottle.

You're looking like Darth Vader over there. Okay, this water bottle is the coolest fucking water bottle ever. We're not sponsored by them, but this is an Awala water bottle. What's so cool about it? Okay, it has a hidden straw. I'm drinking out of a straw here, Kristen, and I don't have to tilt it. I don't have to. Why does it need to be hidden, though?

Because, look, you have to tilt it a little bit to get the water out of it. Well, that's no problem. No. Look at me. I'm sucking out of a straw just then. You couldn't even tell. I mean, I guess I couldn't, but, like, there are certain things that I don't out of a straw just then. You couldn't even tell. I mean, I guess I couldn't, but, like, there are certain things that I don't feel need to be private activities. You know?

Like, if someone in public sees me sipping out a straw, I'm not like, oh, no, look away. No, no. Maybe they get dirty ideas about you. I mean. That woman over there drinks out of straw. My penis is only slightly larger than that straw. Because my name is Mr. Skinny Weenie. It's your boy, Skinny Weenie.

Man, for people who don't know that joke, that would seem weird. Seems really weird. I'm in the middle of a case here. I'm actually not in the middle. I'm in the first sentence of a case. You're in the first sentence. I've already interrupted you. Shit, I was going to say something hilarious. About your boy, skinny weenie.

Oh, I was just going to say, you know, we always tell people, oh, God, don't start at the beginning of this podcast. But I always see people online who are like, they say don't start at the beginning because of audio issues. But like then you don't understand the inside jokes. And Mr. Skinny Weenie is an example. It's true. It is true. Boy, that was worth it. I'll be sure to interrupt.

Anyway, James Rupert believed that his family saw him as a disappointment. That's the first sentence. Because of his skinny weenie? No. No word on the size of his weenie. Beware if his family was disappointed. That is weird. We've been known for our thick weenies in this family.

His mother, Charity, told him she wished he'd been a girl. Oh. Yeah. His father, Leonard, was violent and unaffectionate. And his older brother, Leonard Jr., teased him mercilessly about his slight stature. By the time he reached adulthood, James was about 5'6 and 135 pounds. So just a little dude. Same as me.

Yeah. James's father, Leonard Sr., died when he was like 12 years old. Oh. And despite the fact that he was violent and unaffectionate, it didn't make James's life any easier. Of course. When his dad passed. Yeah. His mother then expected James and his brother, Leonard Jr., who was 14, to take on the role of the men of the house, effectively ending their childhood. This is so weird to me, but go on.

Yeah. This was a role that Leonard Jr. loved and excelled at, but James only suffered more. Leonard taunted him relentlessly. He called him a weakling. And when James was 16, he was so disillusioned by his life that he ran away from home and attempted to die by suicide. His attempt was unsuccessful and it seems that James returned home and shoved those feelings of disillusion just deep down inside. That's good. Those will never come back out. Super healthy. Yeah. Take it from me. Great.

James carried on with his life kind of flying under the radar. People described him as polite and bookish. James carried on with his life kind of flying under the radar. People described him as polite and bookish. But he continued to find new ways to disappoint his mother. He dropped out of college after only two years. How'd you get that water just then? It's a hidden straw. It's amazing.

Wow. I didn't once think of a dick when you were drinking that. You had no idea how I was getting water out of that bottle, right? Uh-huh. Yeah. So he dropped out of college after just two years and instead he decided to train as a draftsman. So that's like someone who makes blueprints. Yeah.

Which is a skilled trade. Okay. But huge disappointment to his mother. Sure. Okay. And he reportedly excelled at being a draftsman. He was very good at it. But he did struggle to keep a job. By 1975, James Rupert was 40 years old, unemployed, unmarried, and still living at home with his mother.

He never did manage to escape the shadow of his older brother, Leonard Jr. Leonard, as James' mother regularly reminded him, had earned a degree in electrical engineering. He had a great job. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. Yeah. He had a great job. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. He had a wonderful wife. He had a nice house. And he had eight beautiful children. Eight?

It was a healthy Catholic family. That's busy. They were very busy. Fun fact. Are you ready? For real fun fact or like the fun facts that I tell you? Like the fun facts that you say that are not fun. Leonard's wife, Alma.

Was exhausted from giving birth to eight children? Probably. That's not the fun fact. Was actually James's ex-girlfriend. Oh. Oh, weird. Why? Yeah.

So Leonard and James had actually dated her at the same time. Ew, what? Yeah. No. I know. And then one day, Leonard was like, this is it. You have to choose. It's James or me.

And Alma chose Leonard. What? Yeah. And he's like, great. This is a wonderful resolution. And Alma chose Leonard. And so. What? Yeah. And he's like, great. This is a wonderful resolution. Let's get married. And have a shit ton of kids. Yeah.

Yeah. What could go wrong? Oh. Yeah. Okay. Another fun fact. James was also deeply in debt to both his mother and his brother. So he'd had a good job for a while as a draftsman, but he'd been unable to keep it.

I couldn't find like what the reasoning was that he went between jobs. But one source said he just didn't want to work, which, you know. Yeah, fine. Yeah, I get it. He also lost a bunch of money in the 1973-1974 stock market crash, which of course is a thing that I could totally speak on at length. Why don't you? Go ahead. But I don't want to bore anyone.

No, no, no. We don't have the time, so we must simply move on. Brandi, I've got a great news for you. I don't have a case this week. So you can talk for as long as you want about it. And I think I speak for the listeners when I say I want to know more. So James bought some stock. Put a whole bunch of money into the stock market.

This is sounding way too vague already. And then in 19, somewhere between 1973 and 1974, the Stark. Stark. The Stark market. The Stark market. Took a turnball. Err, derr, the Stark market. Err, derr, the Stark market. Wow.

And, yeah, James effectively lost, like, his entire life savings. Well, that really sucks. Yeah, it does. It sucks. Yeah. I appreciate all that research you did for that. You're welcome. James coped with his less-than-ideal living situation by doing three things that he loved.

He loved shooting. He was an excellent marksman. It was said that he could walk a tin can down the street by shooting it. Oh, wow. Well, that is – that's really impressive. I've never heard that sentence before in my life. Right. Yes.

But I get it and I'm impressed. Yeah. The second thing he loved was drinking. Okay. He was a regular at the 19th Hole, which was a little bar in town, I assume on a golf course, but no articles mentioned a golf course. I would love it if it wasn't. Right?

And people come in, they're like, so where's the golf course? And they're like, what? The what? This is the 19th hole. We're into holes here. You got a hole, we like it. Okay. What was his favorite beverage? I don't know.

Damn it. His mom made a comment about like, I read this in one article, that like, if you can afford to buy seven beers a night every night of the week, then you can afford to pay rent. That sounds fair to me. That sounds fair. Okay. So, I don't know. Maybe you drink beer.

All right. And his third favorite pastime was sleeping. He liked to sleep. Sure. So, he was shooting. He was drinking. He was sleeping. L. So he was shooting. He was drinking. He was sleeping. Lather, rinse, repeat.

That was just kind of his cycle. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. James had also developed a heaping helping of paranoia around his mother and brother. What do you mean? He believed that they were in cahoots with the FBI. Okay. And that they were either trying to make him out to be a homosexual or a communist.

For what purpose? Well, you know, with the FBI. Yeah, but why? Because the FBI was talking with his mom and his brother, and they were working together to make him a homosexual or a communist. Yeah, but why? Yeah, no word on the why. Okay. Sometimes the FBI just does that.

Yeah. All right. Uh-huh. He also believed that his brother, Leonard, was booby trapping his Volkswagen. Cut the brakes? Again, I'm not sure. Put in a bunch of pictures of boobies. Yes.

Trying to make him the opposite of a homosexual. I don't know. Well, that's a good point. I didn't even think about that because then he's working with the FBI to build this case. Then he puts in a bunch of pictures of boobies. Sometimes we work against ourselves. That's right. I've learned that in therapy.

Yeah. By the spring of 1975, Charity had grown tired of James's cycle of drinking late into the night and then laying in bed till all hours of the afternoon. And she gave him an ultimatum. Shape up or ship out. Get yourself together, get a job, or you're done living here. It was during that conversation that she was like, if you can afford to drink every night, you can afford to pay rent. Yeah.

On March 29th, 1975, James found himself at his regular spot, the 19th hole. He lamented to the bartender that he had a major issue with his mother, a problem he needed to solve. He told the bartender that he was being evicted and that he had nowhere to go. James stayed at the bar for only a little bit that night. He came in, had a couple drinks, left at like 11 o'clock, went somewhere unclear where. Some people said they saw him doing like target practice that night.

It was like a regular spot he went to by the river where he. At night? I don't. Okay. Sure. All right. And but then he came back and drank some more. And when he came back, the bartender asked him if he'd figured out the solution to his problem. And James told her, no, not yet. James stayed there at the bar that night until about 3 a.m. And then he stumbled home and fell into bed to sleep off the night's drinks. The following day was Easter Sunday. stumbled home, and fell into bed to sleep off the night's drinks. The following day was Easter Sunday, and Leonard and Alma and their eight children were coming over for Easter dinner.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay. I would also like to say at this point, so this is a big Easter dinner that's going to happen at Charity's house. Right. One article, my boy David Kradicek calls this the big house. This house, I looked it up.

It's 1,000 square feet. Oh, that is not a big house. And I don't know how they got eight children and three adults in there. But they did. Anyway, so now it's Easter Sunday, March 30th, 1975. And the day began like any... Is the big house like a nickname? I don't think so. Nobody else called it the big house.

Okay. When I think they would use the big house, that means prison, right? It has to be. Oh, that's a good point. All right. So it's Easter Sunday, March 30th, 1975. And the day began like any other for Leonard and Alma Rupert. Oh, my God.

Brandy. Is he going to kill all eight of these children? Is he? Brandy, what the fuck? I told you it was a really bad choice. Oh, my God. I'm just now putting it together. Anyway.

Oh, no. Leonard and Alma loaded up all of their kids into their big family van and they headed to Mass. The children ranged in age from 17 to 4. Oh, gosh. Leonard III was 17. Michael was 16. Thomas was 15. Carol was 13 and was 12.

David was 11. Teresa was 9. And John was the youngest at 4. Teresa was nine, and John was the youngest at four. They were all dressed in their Sunday best, and they attended mass. And then they went to Alma's parents' house for an Easter egg hunt and their big Easter meal. After finishing up at Alma's parents', they headed over to Grandma Rupert's house. They arrived there about 4 p.m. Charity had put together an Easter egg hunt for all the kids out in the yard,

and so they spent about an hour running around outside. They were laughing, they were collecting eggs, they were playing. All the while, James was still asleep in his upstairs bedroom. At around 5, the gathering moved inside. The kids were getting hungry, and Charity had planned to make them sloppy joes for dinner. I think this is really funny because several of the articles are like, Charity prepared them sloppy joes for dinner. And then they make sure to note that the kids had already had a large formal meal at their other grandparents' house. Because obviously people were concerned that all these poor kids are getting for their Easter dinner is Sloppy Joe's.

I mean, that's just like you've got eight kids. Yeah. You're going to eat Sloppy Joe's. Yeah, exactly. And what area of the country is this? We're in Ohio. Damn right we kids. Yeah. You're going to eat Sloppy Joe's. Yeah, exactly. And what area of the country is this? We're in Ohio. Damn right we are. Yeah.

All right. Yes. You and I were raised on many a Sloppy Joe. Absolutely. Yes. So everybody moves inside. The kids are getting hungry. And so Charity's like, great, I'll whip up a batch of Sloppy Joe's for everybody.

batch of sloppy joes for everybody. Leonard and Alma sat at the kitchen table while Charity stood at the stove, and the kids kind of lounged in the living room. They were eating the candy that they'd found during their Easter egg hunts. There were brightly colored Easter baskets, you know, kind of all over the place. And it was around this time that James finally emerged from his bedroom. He came down the stairs. He said hello to everyone, and at some point, Leonard asked his brother a question.

He said, how's that Volkswagen? What? Oh. James glared at his brother. And then he stomped back up to his room and he mumbled something under his breath about going out for target practice. Because he felt like his brother had booby trapped. Yeah. So he'strapped him. Yeah, so he took Leonard's question as some kind of, yeah, a taunt, a dig, a hint, something sinister.

Because, yes, James believed that Leonard was booby-trapping his Volkswagen. Some time passed, and at around 6 o'clock, James came back downstairs. Charity was still making dinner. The kids were kind of running back and forth between the kitchen and the living room and Alma and Leonard still sat at the kitchen table. But when James came down this time, he was armed with multiple guns.

Oh my God. He walked into the kitchen with a.357 Magnum pistol and a.22 caliber handgun in his other hand, and he just began firing. He shot Leonard first, and then he shot Alma. A couple of kids ran in from the living room to see what was going on. Charity lunged to try and protect them. And James shot her next. Oh, my God. And then he methodically killed all eight children.

Oh, my God. No one was able to escape? This is the weirdest part about the case to me. This is a mystery. Okay. Eleven people in all were killed inside that house. Forty-one shots were fired. Mm-hmm.

Nobody heard a thing. What? Nobody tried to escape. The shooting is believed to have taken about five minutes. It's believed that because James was such an excellent marksman. Yeah. That he fired a disabling shot to each victim first. Oh, my God.

And then went back and did a kill shot. And just walked among the bodies. And killed each of them. You know, and I'm thinking the other thing is, if you're there with your family, that has to increase the likelihood that you're going to stay and try to protect... Yeah, your siblings. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Oh my god. Nobody ran from the house. Oh, my God. There was no even sign of a struggle inside the house. The only thing that was out of place was, like, one wastebasket was knocked over. Oh, my God. Mm-hmm. Oof.

After killing all 11 people, James sat down on the couch. He laid there for a couple of hours. He said he contemplated suicide. But eventually he decided that the mortal sin of suicide was too great and so instead he went upstairs he changed his clothes

and then he called the police it was about 9 o'clock in the evening when the call came in to the police. And he said, a man has been shot here and gave the address of the home in Hamilton, Ohio. A man? A man has been shot. When the police arrived on the scene, they found James just inside the door.

He was dressed like in his Easter outfit. He had on like plaid pants and a yellow shirt and a tie. What the fuck? Yeah. And they could just see behind him bodies all over the floor. Oh my God. He said almost nothing. Mm-hmm.

When the police arrived, the only thing he said was, my mother drove me crazy by always combing my hair. She talked to me like I was a baby, and she tried to make me into a homosexual. Oh, Lord, honey. Mm-hmm. to make me into a homosexual. Oh, Lord, honey. Although it is true that if you comb your hair a lot, you become gay. Yeah, that's right. It's surefire way.

Yeah. I've been combing my hair a lot. So far, no luck, but... Keep it going. Keep it going. Keep it going. This rampage is still considered the deadliest shooting ever inside a private home. Yeah.

Yeah. God. Police that arrived on the scene couldn't handle what they saw. No, you think you're coming in for – you've got your mind maybe wrapped around seeing one person who's dead. And then you see all these children. Yeah. I read a quote from him who was like, you know, I've seen a lot of homicide scenes, but something you're never prepared for is a four-year-old with a bullet hole to their – a shot to their head and their half-opened Easter candy in their hand. Oh, my God. Yeah.

No. Yeah. They said like the – just like the juxtaposition of this, there's blood fucking everywhere. There was so much blood that it dripped through the floorboards into the basement of the home. And then, so there's that. You've got that. And then you've got brightly colored Easter baskets sitting all over the place. It was something nobody could be prepared for. Okay, so what was wrong with James?

Depends on who you ask. Okay. To me, I think it is very clear that he was mentally ill. He was arrested and charged with the murders, obviously. Six of the victims were found in the living room. Five of them were found in the kitchen. He pled insanity. He told them from the minute they got there, the house, that he was insane. And because of that, a lot of people think it was an act. It does seem a little odd that you would start off with like, hello, I am insane.

I am insane. So as I mentioned, James was deeply in debt. And if his mother died, his brother died, all of his brother's children died, he would stand to inherit the family fortune, so to speak. Yeah, but I mean – $300,000. Well, first of all – Adjusted for inflation. OK.

$1.5 million. OK. But like – You called the police to the house, so – OK, but like. You called the police to the house, so. You're not really trying to get away with it. No. So you're not going to get the money. Well, OK, so if he's found OK by Ohio State.

Oh, shit. Ohio State law. If he's found guilty of the murder, he cannot claim the inheritance. The law forbids it. Okay. But if he's found not guilty by reason of insanity, he can collect? He can collect. Wow. Okay.

So that's the prosecution's case, that this was planned out, that the whole goal was to be able to collect on the family inheritance, that $300,000, $1.5 million adjusted for inflation, that he planned this out. He talked about it to the bartender. I got a major problem I got to solve. I'm getting evicted. I've got nowhere to go. Wow. What more did he say to the bartender? That's about it. Oh, Did he say to the bartender? That's about it. Oh, OK. Well. OK.

OK, so this is where the timeline this is where the old timey disclaimer really comes in. This timeline is kind of sketchy, but I am pulling directly from a timeline that was printed in the Cincinnati Inquirer in 1985 on the 10-year anniversary of this. So I think this is probably closest to the actual timeline of his court stuff. So that's what we're going to go with. So a shooting happens on March 30th. He's taken into custody that night. The next day he's charged with 11 counts of aggravated murder. Yeah. But he claims he's insane.

So he goes before a judge and a judge deems him competent to stand trial. with 11 counts of aggravated murder. But he claims he's insane. So he goes before a judge and a judge deems him competent to stand trial because obviously that's something a judge is capable of determining. Yeah. That judge took sociology in high school. Right. So it's May 13th when the presiding judge, Judge Fred B. Kramer of the Butler County Common Pleas Court, finds James Rupert competent to stand trial. So they're moving forward with trial. James gets a defense attorney who completely believes that James was insane at the time of the killings. Okay.

As the trial is about to begin, the defense asks that they actually get somebody who's qualified to determine if he's competent to stand trial. And so the court does ask two psychiatrists to examine him and they determine that he is competent to stand trial. him and they determine that he is competent to stand trial. On June 7th, James waives his right to a jury trial and instead opts to be tried by a panel of three judges, which I don't think is a thing that's done anymore. It's either a bench trial or jury trial, but a bench trial now is just a single judge, I believe. I've also heard it called a three-panel judge.

A three-panel judge where it just unfolds. You open up. Yeah. Heard that on a very smart podcast. Yes. So it's determined that James will stand trial in front of a panel of three judges. Judge Kramer, the one who initially was presiding over it, and they also bring in Arthur J. Ferrer, obviously.

F-E-H-R? F-I-E-H-R-E-R. Oh, no. There's too many letters in there. Sorry, you forfeited your right to have your name pronounced correctly. And then Judge Robert L. Mars. His trial begins on June 16th, 1975. So this moves super fast.

That's like a couple months later. He's in court charged with 11 counts of aggravated murder. Yeah. The prosecution lays out their theory that this was a planned case. Like this is a planned murder. Yeah. The prosecution lays out their theory that this was a planned case, like this was a planned murder. The reason was he wanted to get his hands

on that $300,000 and he knew the law in Ohio. He knew that if he just murdered them, he wouldn't be able to claim it, but if he could pretend he was insane, he could go to some kind of facility for some amount of time, be deemed cured, and then he could claim that inheritance.

How do they know he knew that though? Yeah, I don't – yeah, I don't know. He didn't have any legal background, right? No. He had no legal background, but he's smart. They bring forward a bunch of character witnesses who are like, he's so smart, super well-balanced, never once thought he was insane. That's the bulk of their case is all of these people that he's known throughout his life who are like, I never once thought he was insane. He was a little quiet, a little small, but never insane.

OK. Yeah. But the defense then puts forward their case that this paranoia had been festering inside of him. He believed that his mother and his brother were working in cahoots with the FBI for whatever reason, and that he was triggered that day when his brother made the comment, how's your Volkswagen? In that moment, he was unable to refrain from shooting them. was unable to refrain from shooting them.

Trial lasted until, like, beginning of July. It was pretty quick. And the judges were split. Two of them convicted Rupert, and that's all he needed, the majority. Judges Mars and Furr found him guilty. They did not believe that he was insane. But the third judge, Kramer, dissented. And he said, I believe he is insane.

But majority ruled and he was sentenced to 11 consecutive life sentences. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Immediately, the defense appealed this conviction and asked for a new trial because in pretrial hearings, when James Rupert was trying to decide if he wanted to go with a bench trial or a jury trial. He was informed by Judge Kramer that the judges had to reach a unanimous decision.

Oh, shit. Which was not true and did not happen. Yeah. And it's the reason he decided to go with a bench trial. Or so he says now. Well, yes. Okay. Okay.

And so he appeals that conviction. And in 1975, the first district court of appeals said, yeah, the court messed up. He has to have a new trial. Wow. So they overturned his conviction. The prosecution then appealed that ruling and were like, no, no, no, this should stand up. And so that moved all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court. And in May of 1978, the Ohio Supreme Court granted James Rupert a new trial.

Again, the prosecution tried to appeal this to then the United States. Supreme Court! And they were like, yeah, he gets a new trial. Yeah, that's, I mean, give it up, dudes. Yeah. Yeah, that's – I mean give it up, dudes. At this time, James was being held in a state hospital undergoing some kind of psychological stuff. He wasn't in a regular prison.

Opium. Just like a ton of opium. Probably. Who knows what they were doing in 1978. Sorry, everyone. That was a joke about a case I covered for the bonus episode. Oh, I just bumped the whole table. It's fine.

People like it when there's all kinds of noise in the background. They love it. Love it so much. So the whole process kind of starts over. So he's being held in a psychiatric facility. So, again, they have to court order some psychiatrists to observe him and see if he's competent to stand trial again. And in 1979, James Rupert was found competent to stand trial. So they're going to move forward with the trial. This time he's like, I want a jury trial. Yeah. But first the defense tries to

file a motion citing double jeopardy saying he's already been tried once. Are you stupid? Yeah. This actually moves again all the way up through the appeal. What? What the fuck?

What did your watch just say to you? I don't know. I found this at the web. On the web. We don't care about the World Wide Web. That's right. We're talking about this podcast right now. Yeah. So this appeal, like for the double jeopardy relief, it goes all the way through the appellate court again.

It ties things up for another two years. court again. It ties things up for another two years. And eventually they're like, no, Double Jeopardy does not apply here because the first conviction was thrown out. Yeah. A conviction does not stand. So yes, we can try you

again. Go to law school. Yeah, I'm guessing maybe the laws on Double Jeopardy weren't as clear. I'm guessing the movie Double Jeopardy It had as clear at that point. I'm guessing the movie Double Jeopardy. It had not come out starring Ashley Judd. And so that's why people were confused. That's correct.

When the movie came out, then all of a sudden we had no problems. We understood Double Jeopardy perfectly. Yeah. So the way this worked out is the Ohio appeals court was like, no, Double Jeopardy does not apply here. You have to be tried again. And then they tried to appeal it to the U.S. Supreme Court. For real? And the Supreme Court was like, get the fuck out of here.

We don't have time to hear this nonsense. To tell you basic rules of law. Go to one semester of law school. And so in February of 1982, the U.S. Supreme Court was like, no, we're not going to hear this. Get out of here. the U.S. Supreme Court was like, no, we're not going to hear this. Get out of here. Do a trial again. And so a new trial was scheduled for June of 1982. But the defense was like, OK, we're going to do a jury trial this time and we want it moved out of Hamilton.

This is too small of a town. Everyone knows what happened in that house. He cannot get a fair trial here. And so they agree and they move his trial to Findlay, Ohio. Findlay. Beautiful place. Yes. Love it.

Top notch. I've never been there. Known for their Findles. That's not a thing. What's a Findle? Something you fondle their sign says please don't fondle

our fendles welcome to Fenley please don't fondle our fendles god why did I laugh so hard at that so June 17th

1982 a jury is seated and the trial begins. Man, okay. Yeah, like what? Eight years have gone by now. Seven years have gone by. My math is terrible. Seven years have gone by.

Better than mine. Go ahead. The jury or the trial is the same. The prosecution's case is the same. This was all planned out. He wanted to get his hands on that $300,000 inheritance. Blah, blah, blah. Blee, blee, blee.

A couple weeks of the trial go by. Something happens. What? I wish I could tell you more about this, but this is the only note I found. Okay. On July 1st, a juror collapsed and died! Oh, no.

Yeah! Oh, no! Yes! a juror collapsed and died oh no yeah oh no yes i have no more details than that okay yeah well but so okay so they got an alternate juror yes they brought in an alternate juror the case continued wow oh my gosh yeah yeah this trial Yeah. Yeah. This trial lasted about six weeks. The case was given to the jury on July 21st for them to deliberate and they deliberated for like two days. Okay. guilty of the murder of his mother and the murder of his brother, and then not guilty by reason of insanity for the rest of the murders, for the murder of Alma and all eight children. That's really interesting. I think it's such an interesting verdict. How did they come to that conclusion?

So they determined, so in all, they deliberated for about ten and a half hours, and they believed that there was enough evidence that he had ill will towards his mother and his brother, but that perhaps he got into that state of mind while he was killing them and then could not stop. Okay. And they believed he was not guilty of the arrest by reason of insanity. Wow. Yeah. And he was sentenced to two consecutive life terms in the Ohio State Correctional Facility in Columbus. God, this was so dragged out.

Yeah. Following his sentencing, a judge actually ruled that he needed to be committed to what they call the Ohio Maximum Security Mental Hospital for treatment. Okay. Because part of the jury's finding was that he was insane. He was then given a public defender to appeal his sentence. But in November of that same year, he did an interview with the Cincinnati Inquirer and said that he didn't wish to further appeal his case. He was just going to take the sentence and do it. He has continued to appeal, and that appeal actually went up through the appeal system again until September of 1984 when the Ohio Supreme Court. Wow, that was weak, Brandi.

I'm sorry. Weak sauce. When the Ohio Supreme Court was like, yeah, we're not going to look at this anymore. Yeah. James Rupert remains in prison in Ohio to this day. He's been denied parole twice. His next parole hearing is scheduled for February of 2025. He will be 90 years old.

Wow. Yeah. I found this article. It was written maybe five years ago. Yeah. I found this article. It was written maybe five years ago. Okay. About the woman who lives in the house now. Oh, they didn't bulldoze it? No, the house is still there. Oh.

She bought the house not knowing what had taken place there. What? She actually found out about it like the day before she closed. Someone came forward and was like, hey, do you know what happened? Because in Ohio,

you're not required to disclose it. Oh my God. Yeah. And so, she decided to do one more walkthrough of the house

knowing what had happened there. And she decided to buy it anyway. I, oh my God. Okay. This article included some pictures in the basement. You could still see blood. You can still see the blood-stained floorboards from the upstairs floor.

I'm sure you can. Yeah. How could you not? Eleven people were murdered there. Yeah. Mm-hmm. She says people drive by the house every day and slow down in front of it. She said people knock on her door and ask if she knows what happened there.

Yeah, I believe it. Yeah. Okay. I would drive by the house. Like I'm the creep that would do that. I wouldn't knock on anybody's fucking door though. Do you knock on somebody's door? I never have, but here's the thing. I'm thinking about this like, now I wouldn't for, for something like this, or it's like a major crime that happened in the 70s. Yeah.

I would assume that obviously whoever lives there knows. Yeah. But like do you remember that local story where – oh, shit. It was about Nellie Dawn. Oh, yeah. Nellie Donnelly. She was kidnapped and taken to a house and kept in the basement and it was a house near you. Yeah.

And it did make me wonder, do the people on that house – I do remember us having this conversation. Yeah, and it's like – We talked about writing them a letter. Yeah. Yeah, we did. And honestly, it's like, yeah, I would potentially like – it would be really cringy to knock on their door. But yeah, for an old-timey one, it would be tempting.

It would be tempting. You're right. Yeah. So suck on that. I was trying to be holier than thou, but I'd love to walk down to that basement and look up and see the blood drips on the side of the floorboards. You know I'd be into that weird shit. You're weird. Yeah.

You're weird. I'm not going to sit here and say I'm better than that. I'd 100% want to do that. I'm better than that. I'd 100% want to do that. Wow, you've really evolved in the past minute and a half from, oh, I would never in all my life to, yeah, I'd really enjoy looking at the blood drips. I mean, I got excited looking at the pictures. Ew.

Not like in a sexual way. Jesus. No one said sexual. You looked at me like. I'll admit I did look at you like that. You did. You did. So yeah, that's the horrible story of a family get-together. Where do you find these terrible cases?

OK. I can't even tell you how I found this case. I know. That's – yeah. I can't. That's the creepiest part. Yeah. Every article calls this the Easter Sunday Massacre.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for that. You're welcome. You know, I've had a tough week, but this story really lightened it up. Pushed it over the edge. Goodness gracious. You know what I think we should do now, Brandy? We should talk to our patrons in the Discord.

Take some questions. Questions? Questions? You know, we have not promoted the Patreon. Oh, the Patreon. Well, this is the perfect time to do that. Hey, folks, you want to get in on these questions? All you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5

level or higher. That's all the levels. And you can get in the Discord and you can chitty chat the day away with other lovers of this podcast and us. We're in there. Our moms are in there. It is a good time. Also, you could get bonus episodes.

You get a card. You get a card. You get a sticker. You get our autographs. You can get ad-free episodes. All of this stuff is available on our Patreon at patreon.com slash lgtcpodcast. You know,

your voice issues made you sound like you were sad while you were singing. Oh, no! I'm very excited about our Patreon. I'm not sad at all. All right. Ooh. FordF1GreenPicky asks, what's the craziest twist you remember from one of the cases that we've done?

I have one that comes to mind immediately. Okay. It's the – fuck, what was his first name? I don't know. Winger. Something Winger. It's a case you did. I have no memory. Remember? No. You're going to remember. Okay. It's the, fuck, what was his first name? I don't know. Winger. Something Winger. It's a case you did. I have no memory.

Remember? No. You're going to remember. Okay. Okay. Lady. This guy, he's working out in his basement.

He hears a loud noise. He comes up. His wife is being murdered by the guy who drove her home from the airport. Oh, yeah,

yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Fuck, what episode is that? Hold on. I, I can't. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Fuck. What episode is that? Hold on. I can't remember, but yeah, that does have a lot of twists. Yeah.

That is my favorite episode. Also, the Candy Montgomery case. Yeah. The one where I was like, fucking, I thought her husband did it, and it turns out he didn't. Then I felt real bad. I'm trying to think of – see, I don't have the good memory that you do. Oh. You know what story you have told that had the biggest twist of this entire podcast?

Okay. The Taco Bell story. Absolutely. Yep. That's the biggest twist. That's episode 68. And I Yep. That's the biggest twist. That's episode 68. And I did not see that coming at all.

Hold on. Let me look up the Mark Winger case and see what episode that is so the people can listen if they want. Shit. The Mark Winger case is episode 181. Oh! Do you know what case that is? What? Do you know what episode that is?

No. There's a reason we don't remember it very well. Why? We blocked it out. Why? That was the episode where it stopped recording in the middle and we had to go back and re-record! Oh, fuck that episode! Ugh! That was...

The Candy Montgomery case is only available on our Patreon. I think you're wrong on that. I think you're mixing that up with another episode. You're absolutely right. Is that not the case? Is that not the case where it was like that guy? No, you're thinking of a different one. Oh, fuck.

Then it's not the Candy Montgomery case. Oh, no, that's the one where she fell in love with the— Mm-hmm. Okay, wrong case. With the hot church volleyball guy. Yeah, no, that's—yeah, not that guy. That's not the case I'm thinking of. Because he smelled sexy.

I'm thinking of— Fuck. What's one where I was like, ooh, I'm crying in my bed. Yeah, no, I know. It's the guy— Yeah, you were making fun of the principal of an elementary school or something. Or a high school whose wife died, and you were like, ha-ha, murderer. Yeah.

Moist semen undies. Ew, what? That's a phrase that was said multiple times in that episode. We are disgusting. We are. It's a real problem. Can we move on? No, you got to tell people what episode that is.

Okay. Mickey Bryan, that one. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh- episode that is. Okay. Mickey Bryan. That one. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. The Murders of Denise Huber and Mickey Bryan.

Only available on our Patreon. Anyway, that was worth the wait. Yeah, you all are really lucky. We had Patty edit like 10 minutes of Brandy just breathing into the microphone as she searched for that case. Cinnamon Toast Bitch wants to know, what is the first movie you guys were ever taken to to see on a date? And how did things end up with that person? Ooh. I saw, okay, this was a terrible movie.

It was a Steven Spielberg movie, I think. It was AI. Oh, yeah. That's not your jam at all. And it's just a bad movie. I think people like it. Who? Oh, that.

Shut up. Hang on. I am looking that up on Rotten Tomatoes. I mean, I've never seen the film. Exactly. No one has. It's a Steven Spielberg film, though. People love Steven Spielberg.

Oh, it does have a 75% on Rotten Tomatoes. See, people like the movie. All right. How'd that date turn out? Who'd you see it with? I saw it with a young boy who I dated for many years. Oh, I know how that turned out. First actual movie date.

I've actually already talked about on this. I went and saw the Halle Berry. Halle Berry? Halle Berry movie. That horror movie. Gothica. Is that what it's called? You're asking me about a horror film.

Anyway, the gentleman that I went to that movie with, he jumped really bad at a jump scare part there's a part where Halle Berry goes and she like opens a barn and like a barn door and an owl flies out like it's intended to be a jump scare of course he jumped

uh huh and I lost respect for him turned and kind of like to him. And he looked straight ahead. He was so embarrassed. I felt bad. Like I wasn't trying to embarrass him.

I was just like, I jumped in. It was a funny thing. Yeah. It was no laughing matter, Brandi. It was a one and only date. Who was it? You know who. It was a friend of, say the name and we'll bleep it.

It was ****. Oh, I can't even picture that guy. Oh yeah, he seems insecure. Yeah. Zombie James A. Reed says, Brandy on the second Patreon bonus episode. Jesus, deep cut. Yeah.

You say, and I quote, it's so hot in here, I'm wearing flippy floppies and my feet are sweating. You know what's weird? What? Because I said that exact same thing to you last week. Okay.

This podcast has taught me that we are kind of old ladies who repeat ourselves. We are creatures of habit. And then Zombie James A. Reid goes on to ask, do you wear shoes indoors? And if so, how will you answer for your crimes? Okay. I don't wear shoes indoors at my own house. That's the first thing I do when I get home. I do wear shoes inside other people's houses, which I think is a polite thing.

But I think other people think it – see it as a rude thing. So maybe I should ask people when I go in their houses if they'd prefer I take my shoes off. Would you prefer I take my shoes off in your house? No. I mean, it's funny. I do the exact same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Now, here's what I don't do. I don't walk around barefoot anywhere. I am a socks gal. Yeah. I hate socks. So. You walk around barefooted? Yeah. Wow. I guess so. What do you mean you guess so?

I mean, it's your feet. You know. Well, I'm not asking about a friend of yours. I'm asking about you. What? I know. I've recently ventured into the world of wearing socks even though I hate them. Okay.

So – because I wear Hey Dudes a lot, right? What? Hey Dudes. That's my shoes. The shoes that you compliment me on every time you see them. Oh, okay. You're like, oh, did you get new shoes? And it's the same shoes. God. You know what?

My niece literally just said to me like a week ago. I was like, oh my gosh, that's such a cute sweater. Is that new? And she goes, no. And you say that to me every time you see me in this sweater. And I said, how many times have I said this to you? She goes, like five times. So we have concerns.

Alexandra and I have concerns. This is your intervention. No, so I don't want them to smell. And so I wear socks with them, even though I found socks that I like enough to wear. Because I'm very picky about socks as well. This is so boring.

Nobody gives a fuck. Anyway. Someone's taking notes. No. So when I take my hey dudes off, I leave my socks on. But if I'm wearing my flippies and I take my flippies off, then I walk around barefoot. I know. Everybody's nodded off.

Fuck. Yeah. Hi. Fuck. Yeah. Hi. Hi, we have a podcast. This is our podcast. DP is my spirit animal, says, Brandy, why does your dad think

Johnson County is so safe when you tell us about so many murders there? It's because that's where he's lived his whole life. And I tell the Johnson County murder stories because I think it's funny

because my dad thinks it's the safest place on earth. And my dad doesn't even think all of Johnson County is that safe. You got to stay within your own bubble, within the bubble. That's right. That's exactly right. My dad owns a business

that is inside Johnson County and he thinks it's in a bad part of town. And my old house used to be right down the street from that business. And my dad was very concerned about the location of that house. It was not far enough into Johnson County. I was worried about you constantly. All the time. Remember all those times you were almost murdered?

Yeah, so many times. Oh, skeezy scotch. Wow, I've never thought about this. Skeezy scotch wants to know, do you chew pudding and yogurt type foods or do you just put it straight down the gullet? Well, what's to chew? Well, if you got fruit in the yogurt, you chew that. That's not what they're asking. Okay, so pudding. Well, if you got fruit in the yogurt, you chew that. That's not what they're asking. Okay.

So pudding. I'm afraid I have kind of an unsavory answer. Well, I mean, you don't just like throw it down like a beverage. I think I do like kind of a swish motion in there. Ew. I know. That is an unsavory. You should have been like next question.

Next question, please. My answer is an unsafe. Why'd you, you should have been like, next question. Next question, please. My answer is too offensive. No, you do a little, little mouth movement, but you, you get that down. Ew, quit making me weird. Oh, God. Patty, cut out all those mouth sounds I just made. Or bleep them. Bleep all my mouth sounds.

Wow. Okay. CC21 says, Kristen, do you have any regrets about not finishing law school? I'm finishing up my 1L year now and I kind of hate it, but also kind of want to stick it out. Any words of wisdom? So I read that and I was kind of like, oh, that's tough to give advice to another person. But then Richard and Ball says, this question is not for me, but don't quit something because it's hard. Quit something because it's bad. I love that. That's excellent advice. Gosh, for me, I've always felt like I've been lucky in the sense that, oh, gosh, I'm not one of these people who's good at a lot of things. And so it's like, no, don't make that face at me for real. You get a lot of stuff.

No, but I mean like I think it makes it easier when like you really excel at certain things. You really enjoy certain things. And when you're doing something outside of that zone, you go, this is not for me. This isn't it. And that's what law school was. And it's – I remember someone else quit like before I did. And it just felt like, oh, my God, they quit. Oh, my God. How could that happen?

Oh. But then I saw that guy like just out and about. Just living his best life. Yes. Yeah. And I was so jealous. And I remember telling some of my friends in law school about like, oh, my gosh, I saw that guy the other day. He was like out for a run. He looked fine. Oh, my gosh. I was so jealous that he was out for a run. And like, you know, we all have to be here. And I remember the look people gave me. It was just like it made me realize, oh, they don't feel about law school the way I feel about law school. Yeah. They're not viewing this as like a punishment or something they got into that they shouldn't be in. Yeah.

So I don't know. I feel like there are always layers of privilege in this. But I think you've got to do what you want to do in life. Yeah. And I know that's easier said than done. Absolutely. Oh, shit. What did I just hit?

I just lost my question. I had a question all ready to go for you. Damn it. Oh, oh, this isn't actually what I was looking for, but I'm happy to share it. One semester says not a question but a statement. There are more wheels than doors. It has been proven. How could that possibly have been proven?

Somebody went around and counted them all. No, that's not true. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. My uncle was a tree. He wants to know, what is the pettiest thing you've ever done? Oh, God. I know my answer.

I'm not sure that I want to share it on the podcast. Oh, my God. Brandi, I want to hear it so badly. Oh, fuck. What is it? I think it makes me sound like a bad person. Well, I mean, the only answers to this question, like it's going to be bad. We could cut it.

Okay. What is it? When I got divorced. Oh, my God. What did you do? Okay. My ex-husband and I had two dogs. Uh-huh.

One dog was very much mine, and the other dog was both of ours. Yeah. And I offered, this is so ridiculous, to do shared custody of the dog. Uh-huh. And he said no, that that's, he wasn't interested in that. That would be too difficult. He wanted the dog all the time or not at all. Uh-huh.

So I said, you're not taking my dog. And then I asked him to pay doggy child support. You know what? Dogs are expensive. Yeah. And what did he say? He did it for a short amount of time. I realized that maybe I was being super petty and I freed him from that.

How much was doggy chug? It wasn't very much, but it was like, it's like a, he's on like, my dog's like on a program at the vet. It's like a monthly fee. And so, yeah, I'm going to pay the monthly fee for a couple of months. I'm not proud of it. Honestly, I don't think that's that bad. Dogs are expensive, especially when they get up there in age. Maybe I'm not the best person to bounce that off of because I am very petty.

I think that's for sure the pettiest thing I've ever done. God, what's the pettiest thing I've ever done? Are people going to hate me that I said that? No, no, no, because this is going to hate me that I said that? No. Okay. No. No, because that's – this is going to be like that one week when you were like, I'm about to say something really judgmental. Oh, my God.

It's so judgmental. Oh, my God. Are people going to hate me? And then it's like, you know, like, I don't know, junior varsity level judgmental. Shit. Help me out because I know I've done – I do petty shit all the time. I don't think you're that petty. I think I am.

Well, it turns out I'm super petty and Kristen has no petty stories to share with the world. The truth is, everyone, we had to cut my petty story because it was rough. Poo Poo Butterface wants to know, Brandy, any wedding plans updates? Ooh! Ooh! Yeah, we booked a venue this week. I'm so excited. I'm so excited, too.

So we have an official date and a venue, and it's going to be amazing. I'm so excited. It'm so excited, too. So we have an official date and a venue, and it's going to be amazing. I'm so excited. It's going to be beautiful. It sure is. Oh, I'm so excited. I've got the most beautiful bikini to wear. Don't you dare. As if I would wear a bikini.

People would be too turned on. Too turned on, exactly. It's going to turn into an all-night orgy fest. Ew, with your family? Yeah, it's a very small wedding. It's just all family all the time. Should this be my official appeal to DP? Oh, my God.

Brandi, are you sure you want to do this? It's not me. This is David's one request. Oh, my God. David, I must caution you, but all right go ahead dp i know you're listening yep he is listening david has asked me for a gift oh my god for him on our wedding day and that gift is for you to perform our ceremony dp will you marry us? Please. You know, he has that online certificate.

I know. He can do the job. That's right. Is he the best person for the job? We just don't know. David seems to think so. My dad picked Jenny up from the airport this week. Uh-huh. And I guess she was, like, standing outside the airport, like, being like, you know, because he's, like, coming in an unfamiliar car.

Yeah. She's, like, looking, looking, looking. You know the way she recognized my dad? How? He had his big, floppy, dorky sun hat. Uh-huh. Hanging out in the back of the car. Yep.

That's how you know my dad has picked you up from the airport. Yep. Snowfeather, I cannot answer this question. We'd be here for days. Hmm. What is a food you cannot eat simply because of the texture? Oh, my God. All the foods.

So many foods. Do you have any that you won't eat because of the texture? No. I mean, you and I are polar opposites when it comes to foods. Do you have any that you won't eat because of the texture? No, I mean, you and I are polar opposites when it comes to foods. Like, I will eat just about any damn thing, and you will eat nothing. Ooh, okay, you know what I really hate? I really hate a mushy banana. Oh, really? But I'll still eat it.

I'm nothing like you. I'm nothing like you. I like a mushy banana. Oh, really? But I'll still eat it. I'm nothing like you. I like a mushy banana. Okay, this is I think this is weird for me. I like a peanut butter and banana sandwich. Okay. Crunchy

peanut butter, mushy banana. That sounds really good. It's delicious. But so many textures. Well, yeah. I mean, it's nice to have a mix of textures. Oh, my God. The face you're making. All right.

Ooh, I love this question. Harriet Grace says, my partner and I have just decided to fold our business. First, we got hit by COVID. Now the rising cost of living and the war in Ukraine. We live in the UK. What's the worst thing to happen to you that turned out to be the best? I also wanted to say thank you for being my safe place while I'm feeling down. Listening to you has kept me going through the tough times. Okay, so for me, dropping out of law school, it felt horrible. It felt embarrassing.

I thought I was such a loser which is weird because I've always been very cool obviously uh-huh but yeah it turned out to be the best because I think about like I look at my life now yeah and I'm like Brandy and I have a podcast yeah and like that's how we support ourselves that's crazy crazy. It's so fun. Yeah. And I wouldn't have been able to do this if I had gone through all the semesters of law school. Yeah. I'd be taking myself too seriously.

Yeah. Yeah. Mine's my divorce. I know. I know. I was – I can't – I can't even express how devastated I was by it. Yeah. It's not at all how I saw my life going.

And I felt so many things that you just said about your – I felt embarrassed. I felt shame. I felt like a failure. It was the worst hurt I've ever felt in my life. It was the worst hurt I've ever felt in my life. I cried for days, which is just not my personality type at all. Yeah. And it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Yeah. It turned around real quick. It did. It did. Like whiplash fast. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing how that can work out, though.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Just you don't know where that next opportunity is or, you know, where that where that path is taking you sometimes it's taking you to david's dick i was gonna talk about his bulbous butt but jesus how bootylicious he is but that's fine and then maybe throw in like a sweet comment about my beautiful baby girl, but. I'm sorry.

Cody with a K asks, I just read someone asked if you've selected cases for each other. I love that idea. Okay. No. Here's the reason that doesn't work. Terrible idea.

It is. I mean, in theory, it sounds like a good idea. But to some degree, you have to have some kind of attachment to the case that you're researching. Or otherwise, it just doesn't come together the same. It just doesn't. You know how sometimes people say this is how the magic happens? It's how the magic happens. Yeah.

You have to find a case that, like, whatever reason calls to you that week. You find some kind of, like, little morsel to cling on to. Yeah. Woo, woo, woo. Yeah, that's exactly right. So it just doesn't work. Everyone, she's shrugging. I'm shrugging.

I'm shrugging so hard that my shoulders are touching my ears. Like, I don't know what to tell you. I think we see a lot of people all the time. They're like, what? This would be a really fun idea. And I get it. I get that it seems like a fun idea. But those people are so stupid.

Am I right? That's not what I'm saying. That's what you're saying. And I get it. Ooh, Heather wants to know if you'll cover the Abba Delvey case, which is the case where Abba pretends to be a German socialite. It's called Abba Cadabra. No, please cover the Anna Delvey case.

That's so you. It is so me. You know, the funny thing is I have attempted it many times. There's so many layers and just... There's something about it, though, that doesn't quite grab me. Yeah. You want to be grabbed by the pussy.

Brandy. Inappropriate. That's a Donald Trump quote. Just quoting a president. I'm just presidential quotes, Kristen. Ask not what you can do for your country. Whatever, you know. More presidential quotes, Kristen. Ask not what you can do for your country. Whatever, you know. More presidential quotes.

Ask not what you can do for your country. No, ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. I knew it was in there somewhere. I love that you knew the Donald Trump one perfectly, did not know the JFK one. Yeah. Brazilian blowout says, oh, God.

Kristen, we know you get your frugality from the great and powerful DP, but what is one trait you got from Sheree Ray? What would you say, Brandy? Oh. Your hosting skills. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

I did the most embarrassing thing to my cousin Jenny this week. Okay. So, you know, obviously family stuff going on. We hosted my cousin Jenny one night. And my mom is like, you know, you walk into her house. Yeah. Just accept the beverage. You take the beverage.

You take the beverage. You're turning the beverage down. And if you're not hungry, like, too fucking bad is the thing. You take the snack. Take the snack. You know, it's just easier on everyone. So, you know, she had an early flight the next morning. And so the night before I was like, hey, you know, if you get up earlier than we do, you know, here's the coffee machine.

Here are the coffee pods. We've got cereal right here. Here's the coffee machine. Here are the coffee pods. We've got cereal right here. Here's where we keep it. And she was like, oh, thanks so much, but I think I'm just going to stop at the Starbucks in the airport. I'm like, okay, okay. Yeah, great. Next morning, I couldn't sleep well. I got up at 4.30 in the morning and I'm just like, oh my God, that Starbucks in the airport. Like sometimes it opens way later than you would think it might. And sometimes the line's really long. And she's got to fly back to Florida. And like, you know, that's not a short flight.

So I'm like, I'm like, I got to get up and I've got to find something. So I find a granola bar in the back of the pantry. It was still good, but it's like, you know, I'm like, okay, sweet. So, you know, she gets up and I'm like, hey, really casual. Would you like to take this with you to the airport? And she was like, oh, actually, you know what? Yeah, that sounds good. I'm like, oh, my God.

I did it. And then a hero comes along. I'm like, I felt like I really fucking saved the day. Yeah. And that was a big win for me that she took the granola bar. So then I was like, you know, we also have bananas. I pointed to the bananas. She's like, yeah, you know, thank you, but I think I'm just going to stop at the Starbucks.

And I was like, the fact that she had to repeat that to me, I was like, oh, my God, I am so sorry, Jenny. That was my mother talking to you. I'm my mother! I'm my mother! There are worse things you could be in life than Charere. That's true. I got in huge trouble with Charere this week. Okay. Before we moved my grandma into hospice, you know, I went over to her house for a visit.

And it's one of those situations where everyone's being so sweet, bringing us all kinds of food. Rookie mistake, don't know what I was thinking. I walk in and someone asked me if I'd eaten and I admitted that I had not had lunch yet. Why? Why? Why did you do that? Immediately I'm like pushed into the kitchen. Yeah.

And first of all, I've got good vision. Okay. Also, I'm an adult. Yeah. All right. So we just start there. The food is all out on the counter. Yeah.

And my mom does a thing. Okay. So here's what we've got. We've got ham and here's the bris, and we've got coleslaw right here, and these are baked beans. And these are cinnamon rolls right here. And I said, what? She goes, these are cinnamon rolls right here. I said, what?

She goes, they're cinnamon rolls. And my dad starts laughing because he knows that I'm messing with her. My mom realizes. It was very rude of me. Anyway, she called me a turkey. I think she wanted to call me an asshole. But, you know, we try to keep it classy sometimes. Yeah, you got the family around.

Anyway, live to tell that tale. Poopoo Butter wants to know, have you ever been to a music festival? Kristen, you ever been to Coachella? You ever been to Bonnaroo? You ever been to... I'm always at Coachella. Hangout Fest? I'm like the hottest girl at Coachella always, you know.

No. No. I've been to very small. I've been to... OK. I've been to Vans Warped Tour. That doesn't really count as a music fest but it is multiple bands. Also the local radio station, 96 by the Buzz, did Buzz Beach Ball for a few years and that was like – a couple of them were like multi-day concerts. I've been to those. That's as close as I get. Also Boulevardia. Does that count or no? Yeah, it counts. OK. Well, you and. Also, Boulevardia, does that count or no? Yeah, it counts.

Okay. Well, you and I went to Boulevardia. We did, and we saw Andrew McMahon. See, I'm just cringing because of my memory from that. Norm called to tell you that his grandpa died. Okay, everyone, it's Boulevardia. It's hosted by a local beer company. It was like, what, 11 o'clock at night?

Yeah. Okay, so sue me. We'd had some drinks. I'd had some drinks that night. This was also early on when we reconnected. So, yeah, we were very excited. That was back when we got excited to see each other. Now we get bummed out to see each other.

And then Norm calls me to say his grandpa died, and it was one of those things where I'd had so many drinks. I was like, he does this impression of me now. It's like, oh, no. I'm so sorry. Weirdly, I wasn't super helpful that night. Oh, Skunchoff says, so excited that you guys will be at Obsessed Fest. Have you met Patrick and Jillian already?

No! No, we are just as excited to be there as everybody else is excited for us to be there. Yeah, so I guess we should announce it. Yeah. Like, so we are going to Obsessed Fest. Yes Like, so, we are going to Obsessed Fest. Yes, we have been invited to come to Obsessed Fest. I think they think

we're a bigger deal than we are. I'm, first of all, thank you to, I mean. Oh my gosh, it is all because of the listeners,

because you guys requested us. Yeah, people requested us. We are so grateful. Yes. People have been asking us all kinds of questions. Will you do this?

Will you do that? I don't know. We don't know yet. We're like little eager beavers. They were like, will you come? And we were like, our bags are already packed. Yeah. When the hot dude asks you to prom, you say yes.

You don't ask a bunch of questions. Brandi's already in buttoning her top right now. I didn't mean to. It just happened. But no, we've not met them. We will try our best to be. I'm sorry.buttoning her top right now. I didn't mean to. It just happened. But no, we've not met them. We will try our best to be – I'm sorry. I got it.

We will try our best to be cool in front of them. It's not going to happen. We won't be cool at all. I'm always cool. Okay. I'm not. Oh, this is kind of interesting. NoCookiesJustCoffee wants to know, as a woman, have you ever slept with a protection item under your bed, pillow, nightstand, et cetera?

If so, what was it? I am an AFAB, assigned female at birth, non-binary person, socialized as a woman while growing up, who sleeps with a metal pipe under my bed for protection. I wanted to know if it was just me. I've not done that. I've not either. Hmm. Hmm. I know lots of people who have.

Gosh, I feel like my divorce has come up a lot on this episode. That seems weird. But when I got divorced, that was the first time that I'd ever lived by myself. And my dad wanted to erect a barbed wire fence around my whole house. What? Not really. But he was like, well, his first response was that like, you're moving in with me. You're not going to live on your own. And I was like, well, you're only 13. I'm a 34

year old woman. I was 32. I'm a 32 year old woman. I think you were 87 at the time. I couldn't live on my own. And so instead he got me like a video doorbell thing. And then he wanted to put like a security camera on the back of my house. And I was like, dad, that's excessive. I don't need that. camera on the back of my house and I was like dad that's excessive I don't need that um yeah and so then it was he made me um for the first like few nights that I was on my own he made me text him every night when I set my alarm my house my security alarm for the night I think he would have preferred I slept with a protection item under my pillow but I did not what you don't know is that I put throwing stars under your pillow. Oh, Chinese throwing, like ninjas?

That's right. Excellent. I think that's very common, though, for women to do that. And men, probably. I know lots of men who sleep with a baseball bat next to their bed. Really? No, just in case the urge to play a game

hits them. No, you've never heard urge to play a game hits him. No, you've never heard of people who sleep with a baseball bat behind their back? I mean, I've heard of it, but you said I've heard of lots of men. Like, name them. What? Well, I mean, I don't think I know them. Exactly. Like, these are people in movies, Brandy.

Yeah, it's true. You're right. All right. Thanks for calling me on my bullshit. Handy's bro face says, Brandy, when did you tell David that you were a podcaster? How did he react when he listened to you guys for the first time? I'm really

curious to know what he thought. I told him like right when we started dating that I had a podcast and that it was just like a little podcast like no big deal but that was how I spent

a lot of my time yeah and he listened to it and he really liked it I remember when I asked him was like um have you ever heard of

podcasts he's like yeah I'm not an alien I know what a podcast is not in my 90s yeah and so he listened to it and then he asked me if he could listen to the old episodes I don't want to podcast. Not in my 90s. Yeah. And so he listened to it.

And then he asked me if he could listen to the old episodes. And I told him that he could if he wanted to. But that it might be weird for him. Yeah. Because it was a different part of my life. Yeah. And so I don't think he ever did. I don't think he ever listened to the old episodes. Okay. Yeah. You want to tell

a story about how Norm waited like a year to tell you that he was a YouTuber? Oh my God. That was so weird. So weird. Yeah. Norman waited until we were literally a year into dating before he told me that he had this YouTube show called The Gaming Historian. He was very worried about being considered dorky or like I think being made fun of for it. But the way he told me made it so bad. He said – I remember it so clearly. He got really nervous. He was like, I have something I want to tell you.

He goes, there are these videos of me on the internet. Which, it's like, if that's not porn, why on earth did you start that sentence that way? But anyway, I thought it was really cool. It is cool. Also, why would anyone be worried about being cool in front of me? Ooh, Captain Fart Sales again wants to know

have y'all thought about having your moms on the podcast? Would your mom ever come on? I don't know. I know my mom would not. My mom might. I think your mom might too. Yeah. I wonder if my mom would do it if your mom did it. Yeah, if we brought both the moms.

If it was like a Mother's Day special. Yeah. We couldn't make dick jokes in front of our mothers. I've made dick jokes in front of my own mom before. I've probably made dick jokes in front of my mom. Well, my mom has made dick jokes too. She just doesn't realize she's making them. That's right.

Like when she said. I got the magic stick. I thought Norm said he had the magic stick. Yeah, and that whole Tuscan potatoes thing. That was a fiasco. Should we do another ad before we move on to Supreme Court Inductions? Yes, let's do it. Oh, is it Supreme Court Induction time?

Oh, child, it's Supreme Court Induction time. We are eating your favorite cookies. That was so good. I love that. Don't be nice to me just because my grandma's in hospital. I'm not. I love that. Don't be nice to me just because my grandma's in hospital. I'm not. I loved it. I'm also not at the right spot because my page updated.

Okay, well, then I will stop. I got it. It's good. I'm here now. To get inducted on this podcast, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $7 level or higher. I love this first name. Roy Stiffy. Girl Scout Thin Mints.

Sarah Gray. Meyer Salted Caramel Chocolate Chip. Oh, that sounds good. Brittany Melizer. Ooey Gooey Buttered Cookies. Greg Sykes. White Chocolate Macadamia Nut Cookies. Jessica, a.k.a. Everybody Drink. Oh, see, I took that to mean she was like, my name is really common, so everybody drink because it's the name Jessica.

I think everybody drink is probably her name in the Discord. Jessica, reach out and touch me. Oatmeal Raisin Chocolate Chip. Debbie Shear. Girl Scout Peanut Butter Patties. Alex Upton. Windmill Cookies. Are those still around?

I don't know. I remember those being popular when I was a kid, and they were in those big, like, tubs at the grocery store where you'd open it up. They take up so much space. They're not the size of windmills. Okay, do you know what I'm talking about? Those little plastic containers at the grocery store that you'd open? They really break up your view of the prairie. Jesus Christ.

Anyway, I'm trying to have a moment with you. I'm remembering a nostalgic moment of my childhood with my grandma taking me to Food Barn. Food Barn? You know, that's the name of a grocery store by your house. At Halloween time, they would make a haunted house out of cases of soda pop.

It was a good time. You're smiling so hard just thinking about it. Anyway, who cares about windmill cookies? Am I right, Alex Upton? Amber Vaughn. Homemade Scottish shortbread. Katie Rubin. Oatmeal raisin.

Taylor Offerth. Any cookie from Crumble Cookie. Amanda H. Toasted Sesame Cookies from 100 Cookies by Sarah Kiefer. Toasted Sesame. You know what I say to that.

Open Sesame. I knew you would. Joanne Klein. Snickerdoodle. Kennedy Sterling. Otis Spunkmeyer Brand Uncooked Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Do they make just dough?

I mean, obviously. I mean, it'd be weird if she was making this up. I don't think she's, yeah. I wouldn't call Kennedy a liar. Natasha Williams Dark Chocolate Hobnob What's a hobnob?

I don't know. Sounds like a handy jay that's enough that's her favorite cookie stop that veronica lambert fudge stripes rachel watkins texas rangers what's a texas ranger

well it's like the police no welcome to the Supreme Court. Thank you, everyone, for all of your support. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook. We're on Twitter and Instagram. There's a Reddit, a subreddit, as I'm told told because I'm 83 years old. We're on Patreon.

Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a five star rating and review. Then be sure to join. I forgot what I say. Be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics.

Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from an article for the New York Daily News by David Kradicek, articles for the Cincinnati Inquirer, the Toronto Sun, Wikipedia, and Murderpedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com.

Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go. Read their stuff. Woo! Thank you.