Let's Go To Court! - 22: Food Lawsuits with the Gaming Historian

Episode Date: June 27, 2018

The Gaming Historian is back, by popular demand! Norman agreed to do another episode with us on one condition: that we talk about food. We agreed. (Let’s face it… we’re in no position to be turning down internet celebrities.) Brandi starts us off with a finger-lickin’-good story about Burger King’s chicken fries campaign. Everyone loved the commercials. They featured an aggressive, masked band called “Coq Roq.” There was just one issue.  Coq Roq bore a striking resemblance to the actual band Slipknot. Slipknot was not amused, and neither were their fans. Then Norm tells us about his favorite legal battle of all time. It all started when the Kansas City Royals’ terrifying mascot, Sluggerrr, accidentally hit a fan in the eye with a foil-wrapped hot dog. Hold on tight, folks. This one goes all the way to the Missouri Supreme Court. Kristin wraps things up with a tale about a group of cattlemen who sued Oprah Winfrey. Initially, it looked like Oprah would lose. The trial would take place in the heart of cattle country. And her jury was all-white. All over town, people proudly displayed bumper stickers that read, “The only mad cow in Amarillo is Oprah.” But if there’s one universal truth in this world, it’s that no one and we mean NO ONE is immune to Oprah Winfrey’s charm. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The time Oprah battled with the Texas beef industry,” The Texas Tribune “How the west was won over,” Texas Monthly In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Slipknot’s Burger King Beef” thesmokinggun.com “The 7 Most Bizarre Fast Food Industry Lawsuits” by Ian Fortey, cracked.com In this episode, Norman pulled from: “Jury clears Royals once again in Sluggerrr hot dog toss that ended badly,“ The Kansas City Star “Man alleging Sluggerrr hurt his eye with a hot dog gets another chance with Royals lawsuit“ The Kansas City Star “Testimony is heard a second time in lawsuit involving a Sluggerrr hot dog toss” The Kansas City Star  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode I'll talk about when cattlemen sued Oprah. And I'll be talking about that time Slipknot tried to block Burger King's cock. And I'll be talking about one of the most dramatic moments in baseball history when a man was struck by a flying hot dog. I'm very excited about this. Oh my gosh. So let's start by saying that we have a guest.

We sure do. On this week's episode. His name is Norman Caruso. Back by popular demand. Yeah, repeat customer. You guys couldn't get any other guests. He just dragged me back on. Fake news.

What really happened was Norman begged to be back on the show. Give the people what they want. We had lots of requests for Norman to come back. Was that Randy Newman? Give the people what they want. Stop. Yeah, actually, I was excited about this episode

because we have a food theme in this episode. I am a big fan of food. The last time you guessed it, you requested that we have you back and talk about food. Yeah, I think themed episodes are a great idea.

All right. Okay. So we should do this more often. We can cure you. All right. I'm excited about all three of these cases. I'm excited about yours because you have been trying to get me to do this one a million times and I've been like, no, it sounds dumb.

It's not dumb. It's big time. She's been like, let's part. Okay. Okay. Let's get a cart. Let's She's been like Let's go Okay Okay Let's get a cart Let's get a cart Let's get a cart Alright guys

They're making fun of me Because we did the intro And the first time we did it I said let's go to cart And I thought I could Get away with it But I couldn't She's like

The Californians Let's get a cart What are you doing here? What are you doing here? What are you doing here? Do you want to do what we did last time where we explained that you're my husband and that's why you're on this podcast? Or do you feel like... Uh, no. Just let me...

Norman is here because he's... He's just a fan's a big fan of the podcast. Not because he's married to one of us. He might also be married to Kristen. But he also has a really fantastic YouTube channel, The Gaming Historian. Yes, I talk about the history of video games in documentary style videos. If you're a fan of The Gaming Historian and you like what he has to offer, head on over to GamingHistorian.com

and pick up Gaming Historian Volume 1, Blu-ray, available now. Legit, we only have like 100 copies left. Well, get on it, people. And we're not reprinting it. No matter how much you beg. OOP, Out of print. It'll be worth a lot of money

someday. When Norman dies. That's my next money making scheme. But I'm dead. Sorry. Also this will be in. No this is like it could be my own episode of Dateline. That's how

it would be on Dateline. First I have the insurance money, and then I'm like, you guys, now that Norman's gone, would you like a commemorative Blu-ray? And now Blu-ray's at my funeral. I'm selling them. Set up a little table. Here's some merch. Okay, I should say, this is fucked up to joke about, so that'll never happen. Yes, we're taking that out of the universe now.

Sticking it back in. Oh my. By the way, this is an extra moist episode of Let's Go to Court. Oh my god, it so is. Because our AC is broken. So yeah, it's gonna get sweaty. Yeah, so when I got here, they were like, our AC wasn't working last night, but it's going to get sweat-hairy. Yeah, so when I got here, they were like, oh, our AC wasn't working last night,

but it's magically working now, so you're welcome for the amazing environment we've provided for you, and then now it's fucking sweltering, so. My hair is so high on my head right now. I feel okay. Oh, congratulations. Thanks.

Wonderful. Norman's fully naked. Okay, should we get started? I'm going to start us off. All right, I. Thanks. Wonderful. Norman's fully naked. Okay, should we get started? I'm going to start us off. All right, I'm excited. I heard Slipknot cock-blocking Burger King. Yes. Are you guys familiar with the band Slipknot?

Kristen, I'm looking at you because I feel like maybe you might not be. Oh. I know Slipknot. Okay, so for those of you that don't know slipknot is a heavy metal band from des moines iowa they were formed in 1995 they're from iowa yeah midwest metal yeah nice and they are known for their aggressive sound chaotic live shows and attention grabbing style. They are famously known for donning creepy masks while performing. Among these masks, among these masks are a creepy fucking clown, of course. This like pinhead guy with like, you know, all these pins coming out all the way out

to here. And then like probably the three most recognizable masks are the gas mask a kabuki mask and a mask with dreads all together there are nine members of the band but those are probably the three most recognizable masks in 2005 slipknot was riding high off of the success of their 2004 album Slipknot Volume 3, The Subliminal Verses, which had reached number two on the Billboard album chart and produced six singles, including Duality, which is arguably their biggest hit. So like if you know a Slipknot song, it's probably that one. Go ahead and sing it, Brandy. No, I'm just kidding. I know Slipknot., it's probably that one. Go ahead and sing it, Brandy. No, I'm just kidding. I know Slipknot.

I don't know that much music. My brother was a huge Slipknot fan, so that's what I know about them. So I would like to dedicate this case to my brother's memory. So in memory of Dan, this episode. Okay, so they spent 2005 touring in support of that album, and they also recorded a live album on that tour to be released later that year. Then, on August 3rd, 2005,

What? on a break from tour, lead singer Corey Taylor was relaxing in the living room of his Des Moines, Iowa home watching The Real World Austin. Like you do. Worth noting is the best season of The Real World. Is this something

you read somewhere? And features my second favorite cast member ever, Wes Bergman, who happens to be Kansas City native. FYI. Really? Yes.

Ooh. Yes. I never watched The Real World. Oh, I did. I think I watched The Real World. I watched the shit out of The Real World. I watched The Real World New Orleans for a little bit. Yeah.

But yeah, I could never get into it. Was it too real for you? It's too close to my real life. Do you like it when people stay polite? Yeah, you don't like it when they start getting real. So there, Corey is, relaxing. He had his brown leather Barker lounger in a fully reclined position as the real world went to commercial. Then, a Burger King chicken fries commercial came on.

And Corey was so shocked by what he saw that the sip he had just taken of his Pamplemousse LaCroix came spraying out of his mouth in full-on spit-take fashion. No. He wasn't drinking a LaCroix. He jumped up from the chair so fast that his bag of kale chips was crushed to smithereens. No, are you making this up? And the footrest of his Barka lounger. This is made up. Was he really? Okay, hold on. Because there, on the TV,

in his living room, was the chicken version of his band. Ugh! I remember these commercials very well. Super catchy music. I don't remember them at all. Bob your head.

Let the people rise. One kingdom under chicken fries. It was a good song. Yeah. It was like this hardcore like metal punk band that they all had chicken

heads. Yeah. Chicken fries are delicious by the way. Was he really drinking LaCroix and eating kale chips? I may have fabricated that scene. Chicken heads. Yeah. Chicken fries are delicious, by the way. Very tasty. Was he really drinking LaCroix and eating kale chips? I may have fabricated that scene. Okay. It's called a joke. It's when you take an extremism and it makes it humorous.

Like this marriage. Oh! It is over. I'm done. I am done. Live on Let's Go to Court. It is over. I am done. Live on Let's Go to Court. Hey, let's go to court. Over our marriage.

Oh, God. All right. Now it's too real. Now I'm sad. It is. We're just going to move on from there. Yeah, okay. I'm super into this right now. Okay.

So continue. So I may have from there. Yeah. Okay. This, I'm super into this right now. Okay. So continue. So I may have fabricated that scene. Okay. But in 2005, Burger King really did put out a series of commercials featuring a fictional hard rock band called Cock Rock. C-O-Q-R-O-Q. Yes. I downloaded the MP3s and everything.

Yes, they were legit songs. And it was to promote their new menu item, chicken fries. And Slipknot thought Cock Rock bore a pretty strong resemblance to their band. The Cock Rock ad campaign showed a mock heavy metal band made up of six members, Foulmouth, The Talisman, Kabuki, Free Range, Subsonic, and Firebird. Free Range. And I would just like to put in here that I think there's a big missed opportunity because they should have called Kabuki Kabaki. I'm just saying. Kabaki, yeah.

Yes. Yeah, I see it. yeah so they were featured um performing in concert wearing various forms of chicken masks including a chicken gas mask a chicken kabuki mask and a chicken mask with dreads okay oh my gosh yeah i didn't even make the connection when I watched this commercial. But yeah, they were just at Slipknot. So in the commercials, as we've heard, performed now

by Norm, the music, they had these songs. There was like three different songs and they all promoted chicken fries. And now I'm not going to sing them as Norm did, but I am going to give you the gift of sampling you the lyrics. Do bob your head. Bob your head.

Come and raise your claw. Scream your throat out raw. Bok, bok, bok, boga. Bob your head. Bob your head. Bob your head. Push out your beak. Bob your your head shake your lean white meat and then there was cross the road raw desire is the fire i feed Chicken fries are what I need. See you standing like a BK treat. Long and lean,

just out of reach. And finally there was one-armed bandit. I want more and more. I can't get enough. Addicted to chicken fries. I just love this stuff. That's kind of weak.

Bob your head is their anthem. Everything else was whatever. Because Bob Your Head was what was in the commercials. Yes. There was like a whole website devoted to this. It was a whole thing. And as much as I would like for the events of August 3rd, 2005 that I laid out for you to be true,

I cannot say that for a fact. Damn it, Brandy. What I can tell you is that Slipknot somehow became aware of the Cockrock Chicken Fries ad campaign. And they were pissed. Yeah. On August 4th, 2005, they, through their lawyer, Howard Weitzman, sent Burger King a cease and desist letter. Here's part of that letter. To whom it may concern.

They didn't bother to Google it? I don't know. Within the last several weeks, Burger King launched an advertising campaign designed and produced by Crispin, Porter, and Baguski, CPB. crispton porter and bagooski cpb apparently burger king and cpb have created a heavy metal band in quotes called cock rock featuring band members who wear chicken heads and horror masks the campaign includes television advertising that is currently running on Spike TV, MTV, and VH1. The campaign also includes a website, www.cockrock.com, which purports to be a website for the band,

but contains copyright and trademark notices for Burger King brands. All of this is apparently designed to promote the new Burger King product, chicken fries. Delicious. Delicious. Did it say that in the letter? It does not. In parentheses? Yeah, in quotation, delicious chicken fries.

It is obvious that the television advertising and website are designed to conjure up the image and persona of a live performance of Slipknot. In addition to capturing the flavor and high energy intensity of a Slipknot performance, the members of Cock Rock wear masks that include a gas mask as worn by Slipknot's Sid Wilson, a kabuki style mask as worn by Slipknot's Joey Jordison, and a mask with dreads as worn by Slipknot's Joey Jordison and a mask with dreads as worn by Slipknot's Corey Taylor. Internet message boards and other communications from Slipknot fans have already demonstrated actual confusion among Slipknot fans

as to Slipknot's affiliation with Burger King, including the belief and criticism that Slipknot authorized the use of its image, persona, and sound for Burger King commercials. Yeah, they were like, you guys sold out. Oh my God. Please be advised that your use of the image, persona, and sound of Slipknot in advertising for Burger King

constitutes multiple violations of the rights of publicity of the individual members of Slipknot, as well as unfair competition and trademark infringement in violation of Section 43A of the United States Lanham Act. So I'm going to pause the cease and desist letter for a second just to talk about the Lanham Act for a second. So the Lanham Act was enacted July 5th, 1946. It is the primary federal trademark statute law in the United States. So the act prohibits a number of activities, including trademark infringement, trademark dilution, and false advertising. Subsection 43 is the likelihood of confusion standard for infringement of an unregistered trademark provision.

So basically, like, though Slipknot has not trademarked their entire, you know, image or whatever, they're protected under trademark law by this sure by this subsection and so this subsection states any person who on or in connection with any goods or services uses in commerce any word term name symbol or device or any combination thereof or any false designation of origin false or misleading description of origin, false or misleading description of fact, or false or misleading representation of fact, which is likely to cause confusion or to cause mistake or to deceive as to the affiliation, connection, or association of such person with another person, Or as to the origin, sponsorship, or approval of his or her goods, services, or commercial activities by another person shall be liable in a civil action by any person who believes that he or she is likely to be damaged by such act. So that's the deal with the Lanham Act.

Okay. So trademark protection, basically. Even in the case where there's not an actual trademark in place. While Slipknot, I'm sure the name and the band is trademarked. I don't know that specifically their masks were trademarked. Yeah, it's the overall look and feel. Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. Okay, so back to the cease and desist letter. Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.

Okay, so back to the cease and desist letter. We accordingly demand that Burger King and CPD immediately and permanently cease and desist from any further advertising or promotion utilizing the images, personas, or sound of Slipknot. Among other things, all television commercials and print advertising must be pulled and the website must be taken down. Should you fail to advise the undersigned within five days of this letter that you will cease and desist as set forth above, please be advised that we have been

instructed to file a lawsuit against you in the United States District Court. Such a lawsuit would seek, in addition to injunctive relief, an award of your profits generated by the advertising campaign, three times the damages suffered by our clients, court costs, and attorney fees. Holy! Yes. So they're like, take it down or we're coming after you. We're coming after you for

every damn thing. Yes. And I'm sure Burger King took it down and that was the end. End of story. Uh-huh. It finished up by saying, thank you for your anticipated prompt cooperation. We look forward to hearing from

you. Sincerely, Howard Weitzman. I think that's really annoying when people end emails like that. I really do. Have a great day. When they're like when they're like thank you for agreeing and doing everything i say thanks in advance thanks in advance yes so slipknot was particularly pissed about the fact that the campaign bore such a strong

resemblance to them because they believed it was no accident or coincidence yeah in september of 2004 cpb contacted the band's label and asked slipknot to appear in an ad campaign designed to motivate young people to vote so if you guys remember this in 2004 yeah yes like it was a really big thing to get celebrities on tv telling young people to get out and vote. And so CPB was in charge of an ad campaign with, in conjunction with Burger King to try and, you know, get these ads out. And so they contacted Slipknot's label and CPB told the label that Burger King was very interested in reaching Slipknot's demographic and felt that Slipknot's loud voice and large audience

made them the perfect candidate for some kind of promotion. But after several weeks of conversation, Slipknot decided they didn't want to partner with Burger King as they felt it would damage the image that the band had spent years working to build and they felt that it wouldn't be well received by their fans, which it wasn't. It wasn't. Yeah.

They were right, because when the Chicken Fries commercials came out and fans thought that when they saw the ads and they thought that Slipknot had allowed their image to be used in the ads, they tore them apart on message boards. They called them sellouts. They did not like it one bit yeah you build an image of like rebellious music and then you're in a burger king commercial exactly

so that was one of the bad boys of the fast food industry so that was one of the major reasons that they were so mad about it. It was like it didn't really come out of nowhere. They had asked them to be in an ad. They said no. It seems very clear. And yet here is Cock Rock in an ad with masks that look just like Slipknot's masks. So Burger King brands received Slipknot's cease and desist letter on August 8th, 2005. And they were like, fine.

You can have it your way. Oh, God. Let's go to court. Yes. Have it your way. You know, you could have done. Hold the pickles. Lettuce.

Lettuce. Go to court. Lettuce. Now we're in a real pickle. They keep on coming. Ketchup, Norm, you got anything? He just sang a whole song, Kristen. But I just said ketchup.

Don't make me put a gavel in your burger it's terrible you get it yeah there's there's not much to get there but i think i picked it up okay anyway so they go to court yeah so on august 12 2005 they filed suit against slipknot in miami court seeking a declaratory judgment that their use of a mock heavy metal band featuring performers wearing chicken masks did not violate any rights, including rights of publicity or the trademark rights of Slipknot. So it was filed in Florida? Yes. Is that where Burger King's headquartered?

Yes. Okay. In their suit, Burger King. So in my notes here, I just wrote in their suit burger king so in my notes here i just wrote in their suit burger laid out welcome to burger burger king laid out what they believe to be the facts so beginning in april of 2004 cpb created an ad campaign for burger king intended to take their have it your way brand to the next level. As part of the campaign, CPB created an internet promotion featuring a character called the subservient chicken. I have no recollection of this, but apparently it was huge.

The website subservientchicken.com featured a person in a chicken suit, a box in which users could type in commands, and the slogan, Get chicken the way you want it. Users could type in commands, and the chicken would do whatever they asked. She'd perform tasks for them. Like, just, you know, like, dance chicken dance, or, you know.

Who would go to a website like that? I have, like I said, I had never heard of it. Apparently it was a huge success it took off it was like a big deal and burger king wanted to expand on the success of it and so they created kind of a theme around that to capitalize on that success so cpb came up with more promotions utilizing the idea of costumed chicken-like characters to promote Burger King products. One ad featured the fighting chicken characters to promote the Tender Crisp and the Spicy Tender Crisp sandwiches.

Love the Tender Crisp. You know, they had, what's his name? The guy, Darius Rucker. Darius Rucker. I remember when he did the commercials for it. The Tender Crisp Bacon Cheddar Ranch. Yeah.ucker. I remember when he did the commercials for it. The tender crisp bacon cheddar ranch. Yeah. The tender crisp bacon cheddar ranch.

Great sandwich. Norman knows a lot of Burger King commercials. Okay, when Norman said that he loves food, like, let it be known, that is no exaggeration. The man loves food. Study the commercials. Download the MP3s and songs. Yeah, I was a big tender crisp fan yeah usually i wanted to when i went to got a spicy tender crisp with onion rings the best did you get the spicy dip for the onion rings yeah yeah yeah they they stopped doing the spicy tender crisp though yeah they stopped doing that

yeah it's it's a shame it It's a real shame. Anyway. Sorry, continue. This is what you built your platform for, though. To bring back the spicy tender crisp? I'm building it up, and then I will launch my campaign against Burger King. This is what Gaming Historian has always been about. Oh, yes. Behind it all. He had one motivation.

Bring back that spicy sauce. So, they created the fighting chickens, who were, I don't know, two chicken characters who fought, you know, about what was better, the tender crisp or the spicy tender crisp. Spicy is definitely better. And so the creation of the mock heavy metal band Cock Rock was simply another interpretation of that same ad campaign, according to Burger King. was simply another interpretation of that same ad campaign, according to Burger King. As for Slipknot's claim that the resemblance of Cock Rock to their band was no coincidence because CBB had previously approached them about an ad campaign and Slipknot had rejected them? Simply not true, said Burger King. CBB did not contact Slipknot september of 2005 to appear in an advertising campaign

said burger king suit rather in or around that time period cpb contacted approximately 19 bands including slipknot across a wide variety of music genres to solicit individual musicians to appear in spots encouraging young people to vote so they're like we didn't reach out specifically to slipknot we were reaching out to all kinds of bands and musicians at the time 19 is not a big it's not a big number at all i don't think you don't get to say we didn't reach out to them you did you did you did reach out you just have to say we reached out to several other bands a handful of other bands yes um so in these advertising spots they didn't advertise any particular burger king products they did you know carry the burger king logo and stuff

like that um but the musicians who appeared in them uh p. Diddy, Snoop Dogg, and Ted Nugent, for example. Ted Nugent? I don't know who the hell knew who would recognize Ted Nugent. And he's like a hardcore conservative. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's kind of crazy. Yeah.

They did not sing or perform in the spots. They simply expressed the importance of voting in their own words. They weren't given scripts. They weren't scripted spots. They basically just got on there. There was a Burger King logo in the corner, you know, whatever. And it was like, get out there and vote. So they're like, yeah, and back up.

We didn't specifically come for you, Slipknot, which I think is not true. Not true. Yes. So the filing also claimed that Cockrock was a mock heavy metal band that was markedly and obviously different from Slipknot, except for the generic fact that both played heavy metal music and wore masks. And the masks are exactly alike. But many bands wear masks and or makeup to accomplish a mask-like effect, including, but not limited to, Kiss, GWAR, ICP, Mushroomhead, Mudvayne, Marilyn Manson, Low Straight Jackets, and The Spitz, to name a few. Mudvayne. Remember Mudvayne? You don't know any of these bands, do you?

I know Kiss. I know, you know, several. Name one more that you know. Name them again. I'll tell you if I... Kiss. Guar. Guar.

No. ICP. Hey, one at a time, folks. Okay. ICP? No. Really? ICP?

Insane Clown Posse. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. By the way, I want to point out that when we all get together, Brandi and I quiz Kristen on movies she has seen. Yes. Oh, God. It's the game I hate the most.

And you know what, though? I was thinking about this. I, when I'm just with people, and they say, have you seen such and such movie? I always lie. Except for with you two because my fear is that they'll be like, you haven't seen Godfather 2? Let's go watch it now. And then it's like, no! Why?

So you two are the only ones. All you have to do is just say no. I don't want to watch it. so you two are the only all I have to do is just say no I don't want to watch it no because people get so worked up when they find out that you haven't seen god name any I don't like when people do that

you mean you haven't seen Lord of the Rings extended cut you haven't seen the six hour cut of Lord of the Rings let's go watch it Caddyshack was the big take away for me from last week yeah I was shocked you haven't seen Caddyshack. Actually, you know what?

I have seen it, though. I'm all right. Now that I've thought about it, I have seen it. Don't worry about it. No, I haven't. I don't think she's lying about it right now. I'm scared. I'm scared they'll make me watch it.

It's so funny, though. It has Rodney Dangerfield in it. Yeah, it's really good. Oh, yeah, I know. And Bill Murray. I mean, it's good. You've not seen it. Chevy Chase? Chevy Chase isn't in it. Tell me about the baby roof. Oh, yeah, I know. And Bill Murray? I mean, it's good. You've not seen it. Chevy Chase?

Chevy Chase isn't in it. Tell me about the baby Ruth. Oh, Chevy Chase is not in it? Yeah, he's 100% in it. Damn it. I thought you were testing me. Tell me about the baby Ruth, Kristen. It's in the pool.

They think it's poop. Am I right? You are. Okay, here's... That's a classic scene, though. Here's how good I am at lying about this. You know, these movies, like, you know enough through osmosis that you can lie your way through it.

Anyway, let's get back to the cock blocking. It's not cock blocking. It's cock rocking. They cock blocked. That's cute. All of these other bands also, you know, wear masks or makeup to obscure their appearance. Yeah, I know. Kristen knows all about them.

She owns several Mushroomhead CDs. I'm a total Mushroomhead. Yes. You know, I found your Mudvang shirt the other day. So Burger King alleged that the generic nature of these concepts had been acknowledged by Slipknot's own members. In an interview dated March 16th, 2004, Slipknot band member Joey Jordison was asked how he felt about bands such as Mudvayne and Mushroomhead that seemed to have copied Slipknot's style. And Jordison had this answer. I have no problem with both bands. I like both of those

bands. You know, there's a lot of room and music and the arts for bands to wear masks or whatever. It doesn't matter. There could be a million bands with masks and Slipknot would hold its own with the way we look at the world and the way we hold our band together and the way we communicate with each other. And most importantly, the way we communicate with fans. So you'll never get another Slipknot. We're a one-of-a-kind band. So clearly what Burger King's trying to do here is being like, look, listen, they're saying their masks don't matter.

But it's not the same thing. What they're saying is not the same as saying, well, we can create masks that look exactly like them, throw a beak on it, and it's not Slipknot. Totally not. So I get what they're trying to do here. I don't think it's correct. Yeah.

I mean, that's if I was in their attorney's shoes. Yeah, that's exactly what we were doing. You definitely bring it up in court. So finally, the suit asked the court to enter a judgment declaring that the Cock Rock campaign did not constitute unfair competition and that Burger King did not infringe on any right of publicity or trademark belonging to Slipknot. They also wanted the defendants to cover their court and attorney fees in the matter. Ultimately, though, the case never made it to court. Oh. Burger King quietly dropped the suit and pulled the

campaign and say it didn't last that long no so long enough for you to memorize it oh shit i mean the bob your head campaign i don't remember it after a few months yeah it did not last long so though i don't know exactly what led to the decision to pull the campaign i knew there were several behind closed doors meetings that ended in pulling the campaign. But these are the two things that I know for sure. Cock Rock was 100% knockoff. Slipknot.

100%. Oh, definitely. 100%. Definitely. The second thing I know for sure is that chicken fries are delicious. Very good. And they have spicy chicken fries as well.

And those are very good. You know what is really upsetting me right now? I feel like we missed an opportunity. You should have brought chicken fingers. Chicken fries. Excuse me, excuse me. And what, you would have brought a side of beef? I would have brought burgers.

You ungrateful beef. And I could have brought hot dogs. And you could have shot it to us out of a gun yeah so um i kind of cheated i didn't do one that made it all the way to court but i thought it was a good case hey they said let's go to court but it just never got there never got there that's fair so everyone go on twitter and vote now whether we should kick Brandy off of the show. Hey, I remember actually in your first episode, your case never went to court. And I was so confident that that thing went to court. And I remember researching it and going, oh, shit.

So maybe we should ban you. I have for you. And I will be the new co-host because my case is amazing. A visual aid. So this is Slipknot. Yep, that's Slipknot. And here, well, for fuck's sake. Let's is Slipknot. Yep, that's Slipknot. And here, well, for fuck's sake.

Let's see Cockrock, baby. I'll show you Cockrock. She just shows us a picture of a cock. And here is Cockrock. That's just a chicken. Interesting. This is Cockrock. Oh, give me a break. That is 100%

a knockoff Slipknot. The Kabuki mask is really what does it. Definitely. Man. And that's my case. That was good. Good stuff. Okay.

My turn? Yeah, I'm going to type on my computer the whole time during yours. Yeah, what the hell was that about? I had to look something up. In the middle of her thing? Yeah, I was looking up cock rock. Okay, you don't

do that well. You say, could we pause a second? Oh, well, I was so into the case, I wanted to... It was like beyond... I'm sorry. It was a good case. It's more of a compliment. Seemed very complimentary.

Yeah. I apologize. And that nap I took, that was just me closing my eyes and thinking really hard about it. I was thinking really hard about the case. My apologies. You'll never be invited back. I wanted to see if someone had uploaded the commercials to YouTube. But anyway, it's my turn.

My case. This case, I've wanted to do since you decided to do this podcast. Because I've been obsessed with this case for a long time. Because I read about it in the Kansas City Star and they wrote a very tongue-in-cheek article about it, making fun of the whole thing. Yeah. It was hilarious. So, I'm going to talk about

one of the most dramatic moments in baseball history. A man was struck by a flying hot dog. I don't think that's the most dramatic. And I don't know sports. It definitely is. Okay. Okay, so I'm a big baseball fan, much more as an adult than as a child.

As a kid, I wasn't really into it. Brandy, Royals fan. Also a big Royals fan, yes. Yep, I'm a Royals fan. Kristen, Royals fan. Yep. We're all Royals fans here. We're all in Kansas City.

Kristen also lies about being a sports fan. I enjoy sports. Go team. Yeah, the Royals are a team, yes. The Royals play sports. Are we figuring out that my only passions in life are going to the bathroom a lot and reading books? When the Royals went on the World Series run, you were into it and went to the games and whatnot. Those went on the World Series run.

You were into it. Yeah. And went to the games and whatnot. So, but when you go to a baseball game, there is an inherent risk of watching a game live at the stadium. Yeah. Foul balls, flying bats, what have you. But did you know there is a standing law that says you cannot sue a baseball team to get hit with a foul ball?

Yeah. Yes. Okay. This is called the baseball rule it was first introduced in 1913 in kansas city oh wow i didn't know that yes it was not issued by a court until 1913 so early forms of baseball i don't know if you've heard this podcast before we get really excited about things that happen in Kansas City. Yes. We love it. This whole thing is local. This is all Kansas City.

We are very excited. So when baseball was first invented in the 1800s, it was a much different game. Legit, pitchers would throw underhanded, and the batters would tell them where to throw the ball. Oh, really? They could be like, throw it up. Oh, that's crazy.

And then they'd have to throw it up, and they'd try to hit it. Okay. So a foul ball was not as common in early baseball, and it wasn't as fast because they were thrown underhand. It was kind of baby baseball. Like, oh, good fellow, throw the ball over here. You know. Okay, so the odds are that a fan just wouldn't get injured.

But by the late 1880s, the game was becoming standardized with rules. You have to pitch overhand. You have to wear a mitt. So they added protective netting behind home plate because that is where you had the least time to react. That's where foul balls were hit a lot. So protective netting behind home plate was very commonplace by the late 1800s. Well, in 1913, there was a case of Crane versus the Kansas City Baseball and Exhibition Company. The Missouri Court of Appeals considered whether to hold the Kansas City Blues,

which were a team way back in the day in Kansas City. They were part of the American Association of Baseball, which doesn't exist anymore, obviously. But were they liable for an injury sustained by a fan hit by a foul ball while sitting in an unprotected seat down the third base line? So in 1913, this guy named S.J. Crane went to a Kansas City Blues game and there

were no reserved seats back then. There was open seating. So a ticket usually cost 25 cents and they had bleacher seats. Or you could upgrade your seat to 50 cents and get a grandstand ticket. What's that in today's money?

Who knows? Oh! Do you want me to look it up real quick? Brandy, go ahead and rip into him. Just pretend that he's me. What would you say to someone who did that? I'm going to look it up real quick. It's about, according to this, let's see,

$100 in 1913 is about $2,500 today. You don't know how to do this, Norman. Let me. Do you have a calculator? Yes. All right.

Pull up that calculator. A fan, Andrew, who I believe did the music for the Tetris episode, he tweeted at us with an inflation calculator. Oh, cool. Because. Let tweeted at us with an inflation calculator. Oh, cool.

Because. Let's look up. Brandy loves numbers. Let's look up how much S.J. Crane. Why did this just default to 1913? The government is fucking listening to us. Yep. Let's find out how much S.J. Crane paid for his 50 cent grandstand ticket. Well, we know how much he paid.

That would be $12.65 in today's money. Pretty good. So grandstand tickets were the best tickets at the stadium. That basically meant you could sit closer to the game, and you could choose to sit... Excuse me.

Oh, I'm sorry. Was it rude of her to type on her computer while you were talking? Did that throw you off a little bit? She was clacking very loudly. Yeah, yeah. Oh, was I? Anyway. 50 cent ticket.

You could sit closer to the game or you could sit behind protective netting. But Mr. Crane decided not to sit in seats behind protective netting. He sat down the third baseline. And what do you know, he's hit by a foul ball. So he sued the Kansas City Blues for negligence, alleging that the team should have taken greater precautions to protect him from injury. Okay. The Kansas City Blues said, well,

A, you should assume the risk of injury by even going to a baseball game. Yeah. And two, you chose to sit in a seat that didn't have protective netting. That wasn't protected. Yeah. And you could have. Yeah.

So this went to the Missouri Appellate Court. And they began by discussing the duty of care that the defendant team, which is the Blues, owed to spectators like Mr. Crane. In particular, the court noted that as a business engaged in providing a public entertainment for profit, the team was not legally obligated to completely ensure the safety of its fans, such as protective netting. Instead, the court held that the defendants were simply expected to exercise reasonable care. Here's a quote. Baseball is our national game, and the risks and dangers incident thereto are matters of common knowledge. Yeah.

This formed the baseball rule. Yeah. Okay. I think that's a good rule. Absolutely. Yes. This was used in future rulings throughout the country. There was even a case where a fan bought a seat for protective netting.

He was given the wrong ticket got hit by a foul ball but the baseball rule still says you can't you can't sue over the years the rule was modified um so basically stadiums are now required to have protective netting because back then it wasn't required but uh you'll see in every Major League Baseball stadium there is now protective netting. Yeah, because that's a reasonable standard of care. Right. So let's fast forward to 2009.

Is that the sound of time passing? In Kansas City. We're still in Kansas City, y'all. It's 2009. John Coomer, aged 50, of Overland Park, Kansas, attends a Kansas City Royals game with his dear old dad,

who is 77 years old. So they bought their tickets, but the Royals weren't very good in 2009. They were not. So they decided to move their seats. There was open seating. Yeah. Six rows behind the third base dugout.

Pretty good seats, I gotta say. Yeah, pretty good. 12,000 people attended the game. I mean, they're not front row right behind the Royals dugout. Yeah, maybe they didn't want to get... Like Brandy's tickets are. That's where my parents' season tickets are. maybe they didn't want to get... Like Brandy's tickets are. That's where my parents' season tickets are. Maybe they didn't want to get greedy,

because they probably bought nosebleeds and then moved down. Okay. So between the third and fourth inning, the Royals mascot, Slugger, came out to give fans hot dogs. This event is known as the Hot Dog Launch. This has been a normal part of Royals baseball

since the year 2000. We've been doing this promotion for a while. I should also mention that Slugger is one of the most frightening mascots I've ever seen. No, he's not! He is freaking weird looking. No! If you don't know Slugger,

he's a lion with a crown molded into his head. It's not like he's wearing a crown. He is a crown. It is part of his head, yeah. Yeah, he's wearing a crown. He is a crown. It is part of his head. Yeah. It's very weird looking. Okay. Slugger

was about 15 to 20 feet away from the Coomers. Okay. The grassy knoll. Grassy knoll. That's what Slugger was. Were there two shooters? Were there two hot dog shooters?

Anyway. At first Slugger shoots the hot dogs out of a gun. He has this giant hot dog gun. Hot dog cannon. A hot dog cannon. He fires them out. So the hot dogs, I'm going to laugh throughout this because this is a stupid thing. The hot dogs fired out of the gun are wrapped in bubble wrap.

Hold on. Pause real fast. Yes. You guys didn't live here then, right? No. 2009, no. So you've probably never seen the hot dog cannon. Correct. Because I will get to that. They had to end this promotion. I have seen

the hot dog cannon. They had to end the promotion. Yes. Well, they didn't have to, but they decided. Did you ever catch anything from the hot dog? No. Damn it. So the hot dogs were wrapped in bubble wrap when they were shot out of the cannon. Slugger fires off several rounds.

When he ran out of ammo, he began throwing the hot dogs by hand. Yes. These hot dogs were wrapped in tin foil, not bubble wrap. And that's when Slugger made a grave mistake. Instead of throwing the hot dog at an arch, like you should,

he attempted to throw the delicious hot dog behind his back. Oh, he was doing trick shots. He did trick shots. Got fancy with it. It was a reckless throw. Poor John Coomer wasn't paying attention. Wait, are we talking about the dad or the son?

The son. The dad was just there, but John Coomer is the guy. John Coomer wasn't paying attention. He was checking the scoreboard for scores around the league, which they tend to show between innings. Worth noting, Royal Stadium has the best scoreboard. Crown Vision, it's amazing. By the way, this was right after Kauffman Stadium had just been renovated. And just updated Crown Vision. Correct. So everything was shiny and new.

Mr. Coomer was very excited to check out the scene. When all of a sudden, a hot dog wrapped in tinfoil struck John Coomer in his left eye. His hat flew off. It was a shocking moment. But John Coomer seemed fine at first. He was just blindsided by a delicious hot dog. Two days later, after the incident, his vision had suddenly changed in his left eye. Quoted, he said,

I looked around at my dashboard and windshield, and the sensation was of looking through a screen door, he said. Coomer went to the doctor. He had suffered a detached retina. My mom had a detached retina on her vacation to Italy. Did someone throw a hot dog at her? No, it was a cannoli. No, it actually was just like a freak accident. Just happened, yeah.

Yeah, sometimes it just happens. This was probably due to a hot dog being thrown at his eye. Could it have just been happenstance? He just happened to get hit by a hot dog, and then two days later, it's spontaneous. The doctor said the hot dog may have caused the detached retina. May have. May have. I mean, a detached retina. May have. May have.

Yes. I mean, a detached retina is very serious. Yes. No joke. Required two surgeries for Mr. John Coomer. He also suffered permanent vision loss in his left eye, and he developed cataracts in his left eye. So on February 8th, five months after the incident, John Coomer sued the Kansas City Royals for negligence.

The suit also claims the Royals committed battery because they, quote, failed to exercise ordinary care in throwing hot dogs into the stands. Let's calm the fuck down, Mr. Coomer. Mr. Coomer. This suit also claimed the Royals didn't train and supervise its employees correctly in the proper method to throw hot dogs. No. This is dumb. They have a hot dog throwing class?

I don't know about you, but I practice my hot dog throwing every week. Do you have a hot dog throwing coach that you see regularly? It's me. I found him on TaskRabbit. Are you trying to work on your hot dog throwing? This episode brought to you by TaskRabbit. The guy shows up and he goes, wait, we're literally throwing hot dogs? I thought that was a code. A euphemism.

Oh, I thought I was just jerking you off. This is why I like being on this show, because I can be a little different than my usual self. You're not going to talk about jerking off on the gaming story? I don't talk about jerking off on my YouTube show. Hey, buddy, want to come over and teach me how to throw some hot dogs? Oh yeah. I'll bring the mustard. Got the buns

ready? Anyway, back to this horrible, horrible mistake by Slugger. Slugger was devastated. Slugger. Slugger was devastated. Slugger. It's multiple R's. His official name, he has three R's.

Slugger. Okay. Because it's supposed to be like he's growling. Yeah. Slugger. Because he's a lion. Yeah, I get it. I got it. Lions are considered king of the jungle. The I get it. I got it.

Lions are considered king of the jungle, the royals king. Yeah. We got it. Oh, are you annoyed now? Coomer versus the Kansas City Royals was a jury trial. Civil suit. Took place on March 8th, 2011. I didn't know it was a jury trial.

It's a jury. Several people stuck the... I misspelled that. Several people took the stand, including John Coomer did they miss the time i i wrote took as stuck several people stuck the stand several people took the stand including john coomer himself and slugger the royal mascot did he do it in costume i would like to imagine he was wearing his outfit. But he probably wasn't. His real name was John Brian Shores.

The guy that plays Slugger. He's 6'3", 220 pounds. Why do you know so much about him? Fit boy. Oh, I do my research. I know his shoe size, too. What is it? I don't know his shoe size. He brought that up.

It's really open. So, the Royals' defense was very simple. The baseball rule was in effect, and John Coomer knew the risks by attending the Royals' baseball game. Yeah. Yeah. But Coomer stated that a, quote, mascot throwing hot dogs directly at business invitees is not an inherent or unavoidable risk of the game of baseball. invitees is not an inherent or unavoidable risk of the game of baseball. I don't think a spectator at a baseball game is a business invitee.

Well, and I think in all sporting events, they shoot t-shirts. Yeah, they shoot t-shirts out. You've got balls flying, you know. There's the guy throwing the peanuts. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

So he, John Coomer. What I'm trying to say is he's wrong yeah okay so i'm going to take a little aside here and talk about the history of mascots at baseball games because uh did not really happen until the 70s so before there really were they had team names but there were no people walking around in giant lion costumes. We didn't get Slugger until the late 90s. Right. And before Slugger, it was Mr. Royal. A giant baseball with a crown on his head. Do you like him better than Slugger?

I have a Mr. Royal bobblehead. And he loves it. I love it. It's very charming. Does he tell you stories? He whispers in my ear. Oh, Mr. Royal. No, you're the best.

We throw hot dogs together. Anyway. Mascots weren't really part of baseball until the 70s when a local kid paraded around the San Diego Padres games

in a chicken suit. He did it to get into games for free. But the chicken suit proved to be very popular with fans, and the San Diego Padres officially hired this guy to become part of the team. He was the San Diego Chicken. That's very cool. Fans could yell at the chicken to, quote, lay one on me, and the chicken would pull an egg out of his leggings and give it to the fan and it usually contained a prize like you know free soda okay or something like that that's super cool lay one on me yeah very cool so other major league teams jumped on the mascot bandwagon and now you have some dude in a costume at basically every single sporting event yeah okay so mr coomer said mascots throwing hot dogs is not an inherent or unavoidable risk of

the game of baseball the royals countered this by saying that the hot dog launch was a customary activity at the game and mr coomer voluntarily attended the game knowing the risks he had been to 175 games at kaufman Stadium. Then he for sure knew! Right. He saw promotional items. But he was in the bathroom at all 174 prior games when they did the hot dog launch?

I don't think so. He saw promotional items being thrown and he admitted he knew that was part of the experience and he even testified he had seen the hot dog launch before. How could you not if you've been 175 games at Coffin Stadium? So the jury ruled in favor of the Royals.

Of course. Of course they did. Mr. Coomer was 100% at fault for his hot dog-related injury. End of story, right? No. Wrong. Until next time, this is Norman signing off. What?

Now you have to invite me back. To get the dramatic conclusion of the hot dog in the eye. Yeah, this is just the beginning. Okay. So John Coomer was not happy with this decision. Oh, come on. So he appealed. And surprisingly,

he won his appeal. What? As the Kansas City Star wrote on January 15, 2013, he got another bite at the sausage. Oh, God. They wrote that. Ugh, I'm glad you didn't write that. Yeah.

The appeals court ruled the risk of being hit in the face by a hot dog is not a well-known incidental risk of attending a baseball game. But being hit by something at a sporting game is. Maybe you shouldn't be prepared to be hit

by a hot dog, but you should be prepared to be hit by a baseball. Hang on. No, I'm saying anything. A t-shirt, a bag of... Peanuts. Yes. Popcorn. Hang on.

Apple jacks. Some guy's nuts. Cracker jacks. Some guy's nuts. Apple jacks. Apple jacks? The cereal? Cracker jacks.

But they don't taste like apples. I mean, who hasn't been to a sporting event where they're just tossing out Apple Jacks? You know what? I'm going to throw a cereal at Bunker. Yo, Golden Grahams right here. Hey, Golden Grahams. I got you going. Hey, Apple Jacks. Hey, Crackle Note brand.

Here you go. Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. They got a milk guy that walks around, too. Ew. 2% here. Got that 2%. Ice cold skim milk, yeah. Anyway.

Consequently, a plaintiff may not be said to have consented to and voluntarily assumed that risk by attending the game. Yes, they did. Yes, they did. Did he? Yes. Anyway. Yes, they did. Did he?

Yes. Anyway, the appeals court ruled that the trial judge made an error by instructing jurors to decide whether the risk of injury from the hot dog task was an inherent risk of watching a Royals game. Because that was a question that the judge should have decided, according to the court. What? Because it's a matter of law. You don't let the jury decide that. Does the baseball rule apply when a hot dog hits you in the eye?

Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. So, yeah. In other words, the baseball rule does not apply to the hot dog launch. I'm feeling good about this because I'm feeling like this is just like a legal loophole. They're just going to sew right up and he's not going to get anything.

So the Royals appealed the appeal. Yeah. Yeah, of course they did. Of course they did. Which means the case went to the Missouri Supreme Court. Well, yeah, we know what it means. Thanks. On June 24th.

For that big reveal. You ready for this? On June 24th. For that big reveal. You ready for this? On June 24th. Brandy, Brandy. After the appellate court, it's the Supreme Court. What? Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing.

I'm only saying that because a lot of people think this was just one trial. Yeah. Hot dog, whatever. But this went to the Missouri Supreme Court, which I think is interesting, okay? Norman, this is your Apple Jacks moment. Just go with it. That's fine. That's fine.

That's fine. They don't throw Apple Jacks at baseball games, by the way. Give me some peanuts and Apple Jacks. That's how the song goes, right? It is. at full jacks that's how the song goes right it is so on june 24th 2014 over four years after this incident took place the missouri supreme court ruled that the appeals court was right so they'd have to have a new trial okay Jackson County. And the Supreme Court also ruled the baseball rule does not apply when you get hit in the eye with a hot dog.

What? Yes. A jury originally found in favor of the team putting John Coomer 100% at fault. But Supreme Court Judge Paul Wilson ruled that the questions posed to the jury during the trial were flawed because one question asked the jury to decide whether fans assume an inherent risk of injury from a mascot's hot dog toss when they attend games. Right, and that's a legal question, so they shouldn't have answered.

Okay, gotcha. Wilson wrote that the question of assumption of risk should be a question of law for the trial court, not a question of fact for a jury. Yeah. of law for the trial court, not a question of fact for a jury. Yeah. And as a matter of law, he wrote, the risk of being injured by sluggers, hot dog toss, is not one of the inherent risks of watching a Royals home game.

I disagree. Here's what he wrote. In the past, this court has held that spectators cannot sue a baseball team for injuries caused when a ball or bat enters the stands. The baseball rule. Such risks are unavoidable, even desirable, part of the joy that comes with being close enough to the great American pastime to smell the new moan grass, to hear the crack of 42 inches of solid ash

meeting a 95-mile-per-hour fastball, or to watch a diving third baseman turn a heart-rending triple into a soul mile per hour fastball. Okay, this guy missed his... Or to watch a diving third baseman turn a heart-rending triple into a soul-soaring double play. The risk of being injured by Slugger's hot dog toss, on the other hand, is not an unavoidable part of watching the Royals play baseball.

I disagree. Okay, I... Here's his reasoning. You can take away the hot dog toss and you can still watch baseball. It is not part of baseball. And that's why the baseball rule does not apply. He wrote that this instructional error affected the outcome of the case, which is true, and ruled that the verdict should be vacated in the case sent back for

a retrial. There, it will be up to the jury to determine whether Slugger injured Coomer by hitting him with a hot dog and whether he was negligent in doing so. So the only thing they can decide is if there was negligence. Yeah. Okay. And here I say, one thing you have to note is the Missouri Supreme Court never said the jury was wrong. Yeah.

Well, yeah, you wouldn't. Just that they shouldn't have been the ones to make that decision on the baseball rule. So a year later... I'm so annoyed by this. You're fired up. I hate this. Because he's right that, yeah,

you can take that away, and you're still watching baseball. Yeah. But you could take away a number of things and still be watching a baseball game, but it wouldn't be the same experience. And you do take a certain risk. Don't give me that look. No, I'm listening. You take a certain risk when you go out in public and you enjoy something.

Have you ever been walking down the street and got hit by a hot dog, Kristen? Depends on which street. Am I on hot dog throwing street? So a year later on June 16th, 2015, which anniversary is coming up, God bless, June 16th. I'm gonna light some candles and remember this case slugger took the stand once again probably not in his outfit i wish he wore his outfit that'd be amazing so bad what if he just

had a crown on he was like a normal dude his head was really shaped like yeah what if that's what he looked like by the way we should mention we're recording these really early, so the anniversary will have passed. Oh, man. Yeah. Anyway, in court, he was asked to identify a foil-wrapped hot dog and say if it was... It was not. It was. You just made that up.

No. A foil-wrapped hot dog was held up and was identified as one similar to the one he threw. Shut up! That fateful night. Is this the hot dog you saw on that night? I swear, I swear it was. So could you point out the hot dog from that night? Yeah, they had a lineup of dogs.

I'll need to taste them. Slugger was quoted as saying, it was never my intention to drill somebody He did not He did Oh no I may not have drilled anybody But I did throw some hot dogs

Slugger was also asked to demonstrate His various tosses Overhand, underhand Grenade toss Salad toss his various tosses. Overhand, underhand, grenade toss, salad toss. Randy. I may not have drilled somebody, but I did toss somebody salad.

John Coomer also took the stand. He described the moment he was struck by the delicious meat. Quoted, I grabbed my face and bent over. I was stunned. I do want to say, I do feel bad for the guy.

Well, yeah. Yeah, okay. You got a free hot dog, Kristen. Yeah, I do wonder if he actually ate the hot dog. I bet he did. Why? It's not mentioned. I'm sure he did eat it.

Anyway, the next day, on June 17th, 2015. Maybe he decided to become a vegetarian after this. Yeah. Traumatic injury from meat. Or not hot dogs. The next day, on June 17th, 2015, the jury had reached their verdict. They ruled that Slugger and the Kansas City Royals were not at fault. Okay.

But they also ruled that John Coomer was not at fault either. I agree with that. I agree too. It was simply an accident. Yeah, it just happened. It was just an accident. Slugger wasn't trying to injure anyone, and there was no negligence. He didn't set out to drill anybody that day.

The Royals did not need to train their employees how to throw hot dogs. That's my favorite part of his suit, probably. Yeah. That they didn't train their employees how to properly throw hot dogs. So John Coomer was obviously disappointed by the ruling. Yeah. He said, I was injured at the game by their hand, and I was hoping that I could get

at least my medical expenses taken care of. One thing to note is, John Coomer didn't want the hot dog launch retired. He just wanted it done responsibly. Okay. That's just part of the risk with a hot dog launch though John Coomer's attorney, Bob Tormelin Hoped the trial, quote, sent a message to Major League Baseball

He said, we always viewed this as a case of fan safety If baseball teams are going to have their employees throwing things to their fans It's been our position all along that they should do so in a careful manner Which didn't happen in this case. John Coomer also assured the press he did not intend to bring any more lawsuits on the matter. Well, yeah, he can't. You're out.

You're done. I mean, I guess he could have. Oh, God. So this actually, I mean, this was a big. Listen, it's already gone to the Supreme Court. Wait, how did that happen? Supreme Court. You guys have to do like a sound bite whenever something goes to Supreme Court now.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Supreme. So this actually did modify the baseball rule hold on why are you sitting like that cause I'm hot my thighs are sweating are you trying to air yourself out right in front of us yeah I'm sweating

sweating like a trekkie this modified the baseball rule guys oh my god This modified the baseball rule. Guys. Oh my God. It modified the baseball rule. Listen, I know it's hot in here, but you can't air out your mud butt right in front of us and expect us not to comment.

That's some serious mud butt right now. Brandy's dying. Oh God. brandy's dying the baseball rule yes if you get hit by something at a baseball game that has nothing to do with baseball you might have a case that's basically yeah okay so new baseball rule was modified thanks to the hot dog throwing incident that changed America and the game of baseball. The Royals no longer do the hot dog launch. They did actually after this case for a little while, but they came out in a canvas bag and they just underarm tossed it. Did they seem like they'd been trained pretty well? They'd been through a training process. Very safe.

They still launch T-shirts. T-shirts, yes. Because those are so soft and cuddly. But see, I've seen, I've only seen them toss the T-shirt. I've not seen them. They don't have a T-shirt cannon anymore. They toss them. Yeah.

And that's my case. The Royals hot dog case. That was good. It was good. I can't believe Slugger was on the grassy knoll and shot that man with a hot dog. Was there another hot dog shooter? We'll never know. Never know.

Do we have some Zabruder footage? Oh my god. There's the other shooter. Are we ready? Wrap it up for us, Kristen. I'm ready to hear about Oprah's beef. Okay. So I want to start by saying that there's an awesome article about this in Texas Monthly. It's called How the West Was Won Over.

And I pulled heavily from it. Texas Monthly is a high called How the West Was Won Over. And I pulled heavily from it. Texas Monthly is a high quality. Yeah, it is. Print. Whatever it is. High quality. Publication. Yeah.

Yes, publication. That's the word I was looking for. I have pulled for a case from Texas Monthly before. And they have good stuff in there. I remember because you embarrassed the shit out of me. Because you told me the guy's name. Yeah, and you were like, oh yes, I'm very familiar with Skip Hollingsworth.

And then you were like, the reason that name sounds familiar to you is because he was a character in the Golden Girls. Skip Hollingsworth? Was a character in the Golden Girls? Blanche's nephew, right? I know Hollingsworth was her last name. But she said that name and I was like, yeah. Yeah, I'm so well-read.

I for sure know that journalist. Yes, I'm familiar with the goat. April 16th, 1996. Oprah airs a very special episode of her show. Every episode is special on the Oprah Winfrey Show. This one. You get a cow and you get a cow and you get a cow. Everybody's going home with a cow.

Oh, baby. So this episode was about mad cow disease. Ooh. I remember this. Do you remember the episode? Yeah. I remember the mad cow epidemic. Yeah.

I was not allowed to give blood because of mad cow. Because you had mad cow disease? Well, because I came from Scotland and there was a big mad cow epidemic over there so I was not allowed to donate blood. Okay. Were you donating a lot of blood at the age of 10? Well, you know, they did blood drives at school.

When you were nine? Yeah, when I was young, they did blood drives. No! Yes. That's really young. Yeah, but I wasn't allowed. Because of my past. Horrible past.

So anyway, as part of the show, she had animal rights activist Howard Lyman on as a guest. And Howard is a former rancher who became a vegetarian. Yeehaw. And he told Oprah that cattle in America were being fed meat from dead livestock. Gah. Which is what may have caused the spread

of mad cow disease in Great Britain. Is it cannibalism? Were they eating dead cows? Yeah, that would be cannibalism by definition. Well, he said livestock, so maybe they're eating chicken.

Not called mad chicken disease. Hey, Slipknot. Is that the sound of a mad chicken? Thank you, Brandy. Yes, it is. Slipknot had a case of mad chicken. If you know what I mean. We are never going to get through this. No, I was gonna

say, damn, this is rough. Don't you love having me on? I do, actually. Aw, thank you. Anyway, I won't interrupt anymore. This is rough. Don't you love having me on? I do, actually. Aw, thank you. Anyway, I won't interrupt anymore. I'm sorry. Can you sit in your chair like a normal person? What are you talking about? You're really, like, I thought when we called you out,

you would stop trying to subtly air out your butt. You look like that. A gamer? No, that bit that they do in Family Guy where William Shatner's all, every time he looks over, he's in a different position. Yes. All right.

I'm fine now. Let's go. Oh! Oh! Oh, now Norman's laying down the law. That's right. Apparently, you only have to call him out on this stuff like five times, and then he is done. Okay.

We ready? Yep. So here's what Howard said. He said that if the remains of one cow are fed to others, then thousands of cows could be infected. And then even more Americans who then eat those steaks or burgers could be infected. So in effect, mad cow disease would spread like wildfire. Here's how some of their conversation went. Oprah, you said this disease could make AIDS look like the common cold?

I'm so disappointed in you right now. Don't worry, I'll do her voice later. Lyman, absolutely. Oprah, it has just stopped me cold From eating another burger Okay When Oprah says something It's gospel

Yes Over the course of this episode There were interviews with a spokesman For the beef industry And an interview with an expert on mad cow disease From the U.S. Agriculture Department. Both of them said that American beef was safe. But their interviews were really short

and probably pretty boring and not as exciting as, like, mad cow disease is taking over. So the main takeaway from this episode was that American beef could be dangerous. That's what most people took from it. That made some people very angry. Like the Texas ranchers. Yes.

What, in tar nations? So one such person was the Texas Agriculture Commissioner. Within days of the episode airing, he wrote a letter to the Texas Attorney General saying, hey, we've got to do something about this Oprah episode. And he actually proposed taking Howard Lyman to court. He said, look, we've got this law on the books. It's about a year old. It's called the False Disparagement of Perishable Food Products Act.

As it just rolls right off the tongue. And it sounds stupid. Doesn't that sound stupid? Yes. So according to this law, those who interfere with the sale of Texas produce by knowingly making false statements can be held liable to the producer for damages. Wow.

What was the... I'm going to ask. You probably don't know. Sure. What's the origin of this law? Was the... I'm going to ask. You probably don't know. Sure. What's the origin of this law? Was there... I'm not totally sure. Yeah.

And, like, it seems like... Something... It seems like something big would have had to happen for that law to get on the books. I mean, I realize we're not talking about that case right now.

But I don't think it did because I feel like surely the articles would have mentioned it. Would have mentioned that. That's true. And I assumed... Seems like you didn't

do your research. You know what, mister? Worry about your mud butt, okay? Because Brandy told us about the Lanheim Act. That's right. Norman told us about the origin of the baseball law. But you can't look up this perishable goods act.

It's too busy, huh? Cutting this all out. You bet you will. She's going to splice in a clip of us telling her how great she is. It's just going to be her doing our voices. It'll be like, wow, Kristen, you are great. Oh, thank you. You are beautiful.

Oh, thank you. You are beautiful. So the agriculture commissioner, who, by the way, was Rick Perry, said, we can use this against Howard Lineman. Howard Lineman violated this law. But the attorney general was like, okay, so I don't know specifically why he didn't feel like it would be a good case, but there are a few pretty obvious theories. One was that one argument against going to court was livestock probably aren't protected under this law. When people think perishable food, they tend to think fruits and veggies, not a cow.

Second, yes, demand for beef went down after the show aired, but it was already going down. How can you for sure pin that all on this one? Correlation does not equal causation. Yeah, that was good. That sounded intelligent. He'll fake you out like that sometimes. Just like Supreme Court. It went to the Supreme Court. he'll fake you out like just like supreme court we're all topless now

that's really just because it's so fucking hot there dance for the judge of the Supreme Court. So the attorney general was like, I'm not pressing charges. So someone else did. And that man was Paul Angler. He was one of the wealthiest and most powerful cattlemen in the country. You could say he was a wrangler. Dumb. He moved to Texas in the 60s with this idea to fence in feedlots where cattle could spend their final days fattening up right by the feed trough. My name's Paul Angler and I'm a wrangler.

Come on. No. Okay, so this idea made him super wealthy. And he sounds like a cartoon character. I'm going to tell a few details about this guy. He had a framed... Okay, are you two done? My God.

I'm fine. I'm sitting here listening to your fascinating story. You're making faces at Brandy. And you're triggering her to laugh more at your stupid Wrangler jokes. I bet he wears Levi's. You don't think he stupid Wrangler jokes. I bet he wears Levi's. You don't think he wears Wrangler's? Anyway, Paul Engler had a framed photo of a shotgun right above his desk, and it was always pointed at visitors.

Wow. At one point, a news reporter referred to him as a farmer, and Paul got so pissed that he called his attorney and said, if that guy calls me a farmer again, you sue his ass. This is like Yosemite Sam in real life. Yeah. Yes. Okay, I've got the grossest one for last.

One of his friends described him this way. He shakes your hand real hard, and for kicks, he'll take you way up in the air in his helicopter and show you this real pretty lake on his property that looks yellow in the sunlight. When the helicopter gets lower, you realize it's a lake of cow piss coming from his feedlots. Oh, that's disgusting. Yep. So, Paul Engler. What's it smell like? It smells great.

So, Paul Engler. Asparagus. Asparagus. Oh, God. Can you imagine? I feed my cows asparagus. So, Paul and three other cattlemen are the ones who took on Oprah. They said her show caused them financial harm

and said that she violated the False Disparagement of Perishable Food Products Act and they sued her for $12 million. Wow. Here was their argument. They said the episode had a devastating effect on the U.S. beef market. The day the episode aired, cattle futures prices on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange plummeted. Plus, a Texas A&M economist said that in the three weeks after the show aired, the cattle feeding industry lost $87.6 million.

Chunk of change. But Oprah's team was like, what the fuck? Yeah. They were like, okay, sure, the cattle feeding industry has lost money, but there are a lot of factors here. There's a drought. It's a volatile market. There's mad cow disease in Great Britain.

So maybe this isn't all Oprah's fault. They were also like, you know, she did show both sides of the argument on the show. Yeah. And all she personally said was that she didn't want to eat another burger. Y'all ever heard a free speech? No one thought this thing would go to trial.

Mainly because they thought, okay, this will get settled out of court, or a judge will dismiss it because it's not a valid lawsuit. But neither of these things happened. Wrong! They couldn't be more wrong! Oh, wow. Is that your Oprah?

Yes, clearly! Is that my Oprah? Let's hear your Oprah. Yeah. I can't do an Oprah. Tell us to look under our chairs. You get mad cow disease. And you get mad cow disease.

So a judge ruled that the suit was valid. And Oprah was like, I am not settling. Oprah never settles. Never settles. That's what she taught me. I think there have been lawsuits where she did settle, though. Never settle. Okay, anyway.

Find you a man who can do it all. Never settle. I feel like you don't know Oprah. I really don't watch a lot of Oprah. Well, she's not on anymore. She has her own TV network, though own she owns the oprah winfrey network yeah i think they show golden girls they should if they don't show a lot of dr phil what you need to do another kansas city native he was born in oklahoma he went to shawnee mission north That's pretty good. I knew Dr. Quinn. That's pretty good. Another Kansas City native.

He was born in Oklahoma. He went to Shawnee Mission North High School. Tell me something I don't know. Not Northwest? No, not Northwest. He wasn't a coug? He was not a cougar. Darn.

I didn't realize how weird it was that our high school mascot was a cougar until Norman told me. Until you became one? Yeah. I knocked right into that. Oh, no. was a cougar until norman until you became one i was like wow i'm dating the cougar just like your high school mascot damn it set that one up for you didn't i nice ripe juicy peach okay so they headed for trial and it did not look good for oprah oh no judge mary lou robinson ruled that the trial would take place in amarillo texas that is bad that's real bad yep that's a jury trial yeah oh and a jury trial too. Yikes. Yep. Oprah's attorneys were like, shit. One third of the nation's cattle are within 150 mile radius of Amarillo, Texas.

Holy shit. Yes. They were like. So they were in cattle country. Yes. They were like, there is no way in hell we are getting. Take over the Supreme Court. So they were like, there's no way in hell

we're getting an impartial jury in this place. We're screwed. We're gonna wind up with a jury of cattlemen or descendants of cattlemen. We're gonna have cows on the jury! Yeah, I was gonna say, there might be cows on the jury. Hey, but they'd find in favor of Oprah. They're like, yeah, don't even know the burger. Don't even ask, that's right.

There was nothing they could do though. So they all went to Texas. And here's, I think this is funny. So Oprah was contractually obligated to do 200 shows a year. So when she got sued, she couldn't just stop making the Oprah show.

Oh yeah. So she took the whole operation to Texas. She changed the name of her show to Oprah Winfrey in Texas. Oh, gosh. Do you remember this? No. See, I didn't remember this either.

I don't remember that at all. Gotta do what you gotta do. She was like, okay, we'll just do the show here for as long as this thing lasts. Yeah. We don't have any other options. Also, because of a gag order, she couldn't say why she was in Texas. She's just like, I love Texas. Also, like, all of a sudden her show changes to in Texas,

and she can't legally say why, but everybody knew. So in her episodes, she'd be like, I'm down here in Amarillo. Y'all know why. And she'd, like, look at the audience, and everyone would giggle. And, you know, so, like, she'd do that, but she could never say why.

She'd pick up a Texas accent while she was there? She did do, like, fake, like like she'd do that but she could never say why she'd pick up a texas accent while she was there she did do like fake like she'd like you know how she does her oprah thing where every now and she'll drop into a different voice so but it was a really hard time for her she couldn't believe she was being sued over this she said it was one of the hardest things she's ever gone through. And a lot of the people in Amarillo were total dicks to her. Yeah. This pisses me off. There were tons of bumper stickers all around town that read, The only mad cow in Amarillo is Oprah.

Holy shit. Yeah. That's mean. Yeah. Fuck that. Yeah. Before she showed up, the president of the Chamber of Commerce sent a memo to his staff saying, none of you are to attend a taping of that show.

Wow. He also said that basically you're under no circumstances are you to give Oprah or any member of her crew any red carpet rollouts, keys to the city, flowers, you know, we are not being nice. So everybody's like, great. We'll all be assholes to Oprah. Good plan. Excellent.

There was just one problem. She's so nice. Can't be an asshole to her. Ladies love Oprah. Yes. And like as soon as Oprah got in town, the mayor's wife you know like she was expected to not be nice but the mayor's wife was like i'm not snubbing oprah winfrey yeah so nancy wrote oprah a letter inviting her to book club she included her phone number and sure enough almost

immediately oprah picks up the phone calls this this woman, and they chat. Apparently, Oprah asked her where to get her hair done in Amarillo. Like, just had a lovely time talking. Oh, yeah. Good idea, Oprah. I want to know whether she went to the book club. The article didn't say. I like to think that they were doing, like, an Oprah's book club selection already. Oh, yeah.

So, Paul Engler, the head plaintiff, was getting pissed. Nancy was setting a very bad example for the ladies of Amarillo. Oprah was a bad apple, and you don't invite the bad apple to book club. But Nancy didn't give a shit. She said,

We are proud of the town our cattlemen built, but there was no sense in being rude yeah exactly absolutely makes sense yes let the jury decide on the matter and just be nice have you got have you talked to us about the jury yet do we know how many men how many okay i'll keep my pants on i'm taking mine off. I don't see why. It's freaking hot in here. And Nancy wasn't the only one who said, I'm not snubbing Oprah. Everyone wanted tickets to the show. Of course.

Yes. That made the cattlemen very nervous. Everybody knows you get free shit when you go on Oprah, too. And you get to be in the presence of Oprah. Yeah. Magic. In one interview, a Texas man said, I don't know if our local cowboys are going to come out on top of this damn deal.

We've already got wives of respectable ranchers sneaking around town trying to get tickets to Oprah's show. I'm telling you, Oprah's about to cause a lot of hell to break loose out here. So Oprah's doing her show and every episode is like this giant salute to Texas. On the first episode, she had Patrick Swayze on, who's apparently from Texas,

and he brought her a big cowboy hat and cowboy boots and he taught her a big cowboy hat and cowboy boots, and he taught her how to two-step. Wow. And every night she was having new stars who were born in Texas come to the show. So I bet the locals loved this.

They were eating it up. Yeah. What a great idea. It's great publicity for Texas. Yes. They absolutely loved it, And she would talk openly. She's killing them with kindness. That's exactly right.

There are so many good lessons here. So she talked openly about like how nice everyone in Amarillo had been to her. And, you know, like they'd pan to the audience and they were all like, ah, you know, so excited. Here's the thing about Oprah, guys. She was just being her best self. Yeah. And the people of Texas loved it. And sure enough, before the trial even began, those douchey bumper stickers suddenly weren't so commonplace because suddenly it's kind of embarrassing to have those bumper stickers. Yeah, because they're like, oh, expecting this villain

to come and she's just like the nicest person ever. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And she's saying nice things about them and nice things about their town. And the president of the Chamber of Commerce retracted the memo. Wow. And he sent her a bouquet of yellow roses welcoming her to Texas.

Yes. Okay, I think this is funny too. The local media loved her. As soon as she arrived in town, an Amarillo TV station began reporting the temperature in Chicago. Just in case she was, like, wondering, you know, how things were going back home. Another one gave out daily sightseeing tips for her stay in Amarillo,

like, just for her. How big is Amarillo? I have no idea. Man. You could look it up right now. Yeah, just type away in the middle of Kristen's story. Maybe I will. Don't treat me better than Brandy, you know.

Amarillo, Texas. What do we got? Population, 199,000 as of 2016. So pretty big city. Not really. That's smaller than Shawnee. Yeah.

Norman comes from Elizabeth City, North Carolina. So to him, that's big. Yeah, I mean, that's a medium city. Small city. No, it's not. It's a pretty small city. Fine. Whatever.

Continue. Okay, so I need to say something very obvious. People fucking love Oprah. Duh. But you know the one person on earth who did not know that people fucking love Oprah? Pete Angler the Wrangler? Paul Angler. Paul Angler.

Sorry. His name should be Pete. Some better cowboy name. He was not happy. Pistol Pete. That is a better cowboy name. He was not happy. Pistol Pete, that is a better cowboy name. Yeah, it is. An Amarillo attorney summed it up this way. He said,

I have no doubt that Engler thought he was walking into a hometown court and putting a foreigner on trial. To these cattlemen, Oprah, a successful black woman from Chicago, seems like a foreigner. But the real comeuppance is that Engler is a lot more foreign to people here than Oprah. People in Amarillo watch Oprah every day. Yeah, so like, she was in their homes every day. But even though everyone loves Oprah, no one thought that this trial was going to be a slam dunk.

And they especially didn't think it was going to be a slam dunk after the jury was selected. Of 12 men. And one cow. Here was the big sticking point. It was all white. And the article I read mentioned one woman on the jury. So I don't know for sure that there was only one woman, but I do know that one juror was a descendant of one of the area's oldest ranching families.

Okay. And another had been involved in cattle feeding. All right. So, yikes. Yeah. It's not a great setup. Oprah described looking over at the jury and being like, these are not my peers

like oh this really sucks but a jury consultant on her legal team was like hey be you be authentic keep going so the trial starts and it's boring. Super fucking boring. Ingler's side is talking about commodities markets, pricing, the proper mix of cattle feed. Yes, they said that people in the gallery fell asleep. And by the way, Maya Angelou was there. So who knows if she fell asleep. Supporting Oprah. Yeah. Yeah.

So people were bored to death. Yeah. But they did bored to death. Yeah. But they did a decent job of tearing down that Oprah episode. They brought in the beef industry spokesman who'd been part of that episode, and he said that Oprah told him after the show, we weren't fair to you. Apparently with the editing of the episode, he'd been, you know, his stuff just wasn't as exciting.

So he got cut down. Yeah. They brought in the government expert who'd been on the show and on the stand. The man broke down in tears. What? OK, listen to this. The man broke down into in tears as he talked about what it was like to defend Beef on that show. He said the Oprah audience was like a lynch mob.

Beef and I have just been friends for so long. So close to Beef. Get in there in front of all those people that hate Beef. And I had to say all these things. and I had to say all these and then and then and then she she said beef was bad

I'm just like okay Oprah audience we can all picture the Oprah audience like a lot of pastels they are a lynch mob Kristen what you don't see on TV

are all the torches and pitchforks. Yeah. And the nooses in their purses. They hide those away very cleverly. Yeah. Finally, three weeks into the trial, Oprah took the stand. Oh, here's what we've been waiting for.

Oh, God, I love this. Engler's attorney had a transcript of the episode, and he went through every fucking line of the show with her, picking it apart. He said she was negligent for not double-checking Howard Lyman's claims, and he just hammered away at that point. And finally, Oprah leaned toward the microphone and said, Mr. Coyne, I provide a forum for people to express their opinions.

This is the United States of America. We are allowed to do this in the United States of America. And like the article said, that all of a sudden it was like the lights came on and people started paying attention because finally it wasn't boring anymore. Thank goodness. When her own attorneys took over Oprah, like on point, like tap dance up there,

I'm sure. So here's the thing. When she was questioned about her integrity, she said, I am a black woman in America. Having gotten here believing in a power greater than myself, I cannot be bought. I answer to the spirit of God that lives in us all. Damn!

I bet the jury loved that. Oh my God, I love that. I mean, I answer to the spirit of God that lives in us all. Holy shit. Yeah. So she talked about overcoming all sorts of obstacles, like racism, obesity, poverty, childhood abuse, all to get to where she is today. She said, I am in this courtroom to defend my name.

I feel in my heart I've never done a malicious act against any human being. The trial continued for six weeks. Good God. Wow. Six week trial over beef? It was nuts. Where's the beef? And it's 1998 by this point, so it's been going on for a while.

Seems like they had quite the beef. Oh, my God. So this whole time, Oprah would go to court during the day and tape her show at night. And people were really starting to pull for Oprah. And weirdly, Rick Perry, who'd been all for this lawsuit, saw how things shifted. Yeah. And he was suddenly really quiet about it. Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm. So people suspected that he was being quiet because he was running for lieutenant governor. Uh-huh. Yeah. Meh. So finally, on February 26, 1998, the jury voted unanimously in favor of oprah good after by the way like she had a ton of supporters outside the courthouse people and i think this sounds weird they had kazoos and apparently her favorite song is the Andy Griffith theme song. So they did, you know, yeah.

They did that for her. I think that sounds weird. Anyway. Okay. That's her favorite song. I can't believe that. I mean, that's what I've read. It's on her iPod.

I mean, whose favorite song? That's no one's favorite song. That's not even Andy Griffith's favorite song. If anything, it almost sounds ominous to me. Yeah. I don't know. But anyway, she told a crowd of cheering fans, I will continue to use my voice.

I believed from the beginning this was an attempt to muzzle that voice. I come from a people who have struggled and died in order to have a voice in this country, and I refuse to be muzzled. Yeah. Do you know this story? I don't. and well-spoken he was. And he'd really encouraged her to be authentic and cut through the bullshit. Do you know this story? I don't. So she invited him on to the show. And the audience loved him just as much as she did. They loved him so much that Oprah brought him back every Tuesday for years.

And then in 2002, she gave Dr. Phil his own show. Holy shit! Yes! I didn't know Dr. Phil his own show. Holy shit! Yes! I didn't know Dr. Phil was in law. I didn't either. There you go. So, like, she's talked about how this was such a hard time in her life, but how some good things came from it. Yeah!

And one of them was, like, meeting Dr. Phil. Yeah. And, like, I guess she was so impressed with him, she at first told him, you should write a book. And he's like, I don't have time to write a book. And he was. And like I guess she was so impressed with him she at first told him you should write a book and he's like I don't have time to write a book

and he was kind of like and she's like no really you should do this. Yeah. That's amazing. Isn't that crazy? I had no idea.

That is nuts and that's how Dr. Phil was discovered. Yes. Wow. Catch me outside. How about that? Now that's a beef.

So that's it. That is nuts. I had no idea he was in legal matters. I thought he was all psychology, therapy. Well, I think he was a consultant. Well, that's a big part of jury selection. So that would make sense. I guess that does make sense.

And I assume he helped her with her testimony. Yeah. yeah psychology would be huge huge yeah wow he must be a gamer i really doubt it i don't think so okay loved it yeah boom that was interesting i did i had no idea about that case at all i it's one that i've always i love that rick perry was involved oh my god yeah i love that she just like went down there and won them over that's what i love about it too is because i feel like if i were in a place where they were saying like the only mad cow out here is kristin pitts i'd be like fuck everyone i'd be so mad and so hurt but she was just like no i'm just gonna, I'm going to be me. You can try to hate Oprah.

You can't. Can't be done. Cannot be done. I love that that Chamber of Commerce guy retracted his memo and sent her flowers. Because his wife was probably like. No, the mayor's wife. That was a different. Oh, Chamber of Commerce.

You're right. Yeah. Got it. Man, it was good. I liked this themed episode. This was fun. You're right. Got it. Man, it was good. I liked this themed episode. This was good. This was fun. I wish I could have learned more about the Perishable Foods Act, though.

Okay, I can tell you something. I can tell you something about it. I read kind of a more updated article, and it said that the year after this went to trial texas lawmakers talked very seriously about just taking the law off the books because the trial had been just kind of a waste and embarrassing and just stupid but it was never taken off the books but it is believed to have not been used since. So it's been on the books since 1995.

And it, to my knowledge, was used one time. Unsuccessfully. So they complain it was like a waste of taxpayer money. Well, I don't know if it's taxpayer money when it was pawned. No, if it was brought by a private woman. I think the idea was that it was kind of a stupid law. If the court had to deal with that. Oh yeah, I guess you're right.

I actually read an article about my hot dog case where this guy wrote an editorial where he was pissed that the Missouri Supreme Court was even like- Supreme Court! The Supreme Court was even like talking about this case. What do you mean? He was annoyed that-

But did it go to the Supreme Court was even like talking about this case. What do you mean? He was annoyed that. But did it go to the Supreme Court? You know what, Kristen? Oh no, what? Oh no. I believe in a higher power. I will not let you. The power of God that resides in all of us. Are you a strong black woman?

I am a strong black woman. I am a strong black woman. Hang on, let me look up the quote. Yes. I go to baseball games and I eat Apple Jacks. And I don't need you to tell me what to do with my life. Wow.

Wow, okay. Well, I'm gonna say something right back to you. I cannot be bought. I answer to the spirit of God that lives in us all. That's what I wanted to say. Boom, boom. I didn't get the line right.

Drop your mic, Kristen. It's too expensive. It's too expensive. I don't have Oprah money. I have a quote from Oprah, but I don't have Oprah money. We can't be ruining this mic. Now, before we go, do we need to try cracklin oat bran on air i am not eating cracklin oat bran on air yes you are damn it brandy eat a piece of crack

cracklin oat bran first we have to explain okay okay you explain why we're eating cracklin oat bran i'll grab the because it's my favorite cereal we were talking about so at lunch the other day we were talking about our favorite cereals and i told you guys that zach's favorite cereal is raisin bran and norm you're like raisin bran what is he an 87 year old man i've got to back norman up on that one that is a weird fable and i was like not even raisin bran even Raisin Bran Crunch. No, he likes Raisin Bran Crunch, but he likes Raisin Bran. And so then I was like, well, what's your favorite cereal? And you're like, Cracklin' Oat Bran. And I was like, it says Bran in the fucking name.

Like, it's... Doesn't taste like Bran. So I've never had it before. And so I show up here today to record. And out comes the box of crackling oat bran that we're apparently now going to eat on the food episode.

I knew she wouldn't buy it. She was like, oh, maybe I'll try it. I was like, she's not going to buy it. So when I went grocery shopping, I got some. I think it's so good. Imagine that with ice cold skim milk she's got a really neutral look on her face no it's actually pretty good it's actually not that different texture wise it is but taste wise it's not that different from cinnamon life which is my favorite cereal it does have a hint of but you know what it doesn't fall apart into mush. Exactly. It stays crackling. We should also say, we're not sponsored by Cracklin' Oat Bran.

We wish we were. We are not. Yet. Okay, well. Thank you for joining us, Norman. You're welcome. This was fun. If you enjoyed this episode, head on over to iTunes.

Give us a rating. Give us a review. Find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. Head on over to Norm's YouTube channel, Gaming Historian, which I'm guessing you probably

already know about. I'm going to give your audience homework. Go on Twitter and tweet at LGTC, it's at Let's Go to Court, with the number 2. Please tweet at them your favorite ballpark snack. Ooh, excellent. Please do.

That's your homework. It's gonna be a lot of Apple Jacks. Yeah, and then join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. Bye-bye. And now for a note about our process I read a bunch of stuff

then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary and I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia so we owe a huge thank you to the real experts for this episode I got my info from articles in Texas

Monthly and the Texas Tribune, I got my info from articles in Texas Monthly and the Texas Tribune. And I got my info from cracked.com and the smoking gun.com. I got my information from the Kansas City Star and from the awesome paper written by Benjamin Trackman, Going to Bat for the Baseball Rule. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.