Let's Go To Court! - 238: The Tulia Drug Bust & Online Dating

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

In the late 90s, the little town of Tulia, Texas, was up to its ass in drugs. At least, that’s what the local sheriff thought. So he hired a guy named Tom Coleman to work as an undercover narcotics agent. What Tom discovered was truly unbelievable. As it turned out, the little town of approximately 5,000 people was home to *at least* 46 drug dealers. On top of that, the drug dealers in this economically depressed community dealt oodles of powder cocaine! Oh, and guess what?? Even though Tulia had a pretty small Black community, almost every single drug dealer that Tom encountered was Black! What are the odds??? Thanks to Tom’s undercover work, authorities arrested 46 people on drug charges. But Tom hadn’t worn a wire during these drug buys. Nothing was videoed or photographed. He hadn’t even worked alongside another undercover agent. Hell, he hadn’t even written his notes on a notepad. He’d written every pertinent detail about those drug deals on his leg.  Then Brandi tells us about the murder of Ingrid Lyne. Indrid was a newly divorced, busy mom. She shared three daughters with her ex-husband, Phillip, and she worked as a nurse at Seattle’s Swedish Medical Center. She’d just recently begun online dating. Through an app, she met John Charlton. John seemed like a nice enough guy, so Ingrid went out with him a few times. But on the morning after Ingrid went to a Seattle Mariners game with John, her friends and family couldn’t get a hold of her.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Tulia drug bust of 1999,” by Alex Hunt for the Texas State Historical Association “The color of justice,” by Nate Blakeslee for the Texas Observer “Tulia Texas: Scenes from the drug war,” documentary  “Racist arrests in Tulia, Texas,” ACLU.org “Tulia 46: Impacts 20 years later,” by Mari Salazar for Everything Lubbock.com “Prosecutor in Tulia case says he’ll show Coleman lied,” Associated Press, Jan 12 2005 “Former Tulia drug agent guilty of one perjury count,” Associated Press, Jan 15 2005 “Tulia saga still a wound unhealed for some,” Associated Press, July 22, 2009 Crime stories episode, “Miscarriage of justice in Tulia Texas,”  “Tulia,Texas” ABC News 20/20 video on YouTube 60 Minutes clips on YouTube In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Ingrid Lyne” chillingcrimes.com “The Murder of Ingrid Lyne” by Kylie, It’s Crime O Clock Somewhere “Date With The Devil” episode Sex and Murder “Man Who Found Dismembered Remains of Wash. Mom in Trash Can Recounts Horrific Discovery” by Harriet Sokmensuer, People “Man pleads guilty to killing, dismembering Renton mother of 3” by Steve Miletich, The Seattle Times “Grisly details revealed in murder of Renton mom; suspect claimed he was too drunk to remember, prosecutors say” by Brandi Kruse, Janet Kim, Hana Kim, and Steve Kiggins, Fox13 News “'When he walks, Ingrid won't': Man sentenced for dismembering Renton nurse” by Lynsi Burton, SeattlePI.com YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 40+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Pond. Oh, let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about the Tulia drug bust of 1999. And I'll be talking about online dating.

Oh, will you? I will. I've heard there are some real skanks on these. There are. Hoes. Mm- there. There are hoes for show. They're like, oh, I'm just looking to like, you know, play the field. Yeah. And then they just meet one guy, spend the rest of their life with them. Anyway, how you doing, Brady? I'm doing real good. How you doing? I'm great, obviously. I mean, look at me. I'm glowing. Is this your stinky jean jacket?

Hey, I was just bragging to you. Yes, it is my stinky jean jacket. I don't think it stinks anymore. Good, I'm glad. Or am I used to it? Who knows? Who knows? It looks very cute. Thank you. You're welcome. You're rocking like a side part today That's because I'm trying to dry my hair Oh

You know It's like you gotta get the volume So you flip it back and forth You whip your hair back and forth Yep I'm just like her You know I've got a good case today

I'm not trying to brag to you But I am not covering another rape Thank you. A drug bust. This sounds exciting. It is. Ooh. Okay.

How was your Thanksgiving? It was real good. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I also had a good Thanksgiving. Great. I'm glad we've had this banter. My first Thanksgiving as a married woman?

That's not true. My first Thanksgiving as a... This time married to this man. That got awkward. Brandy, people are saying your second wedding was even better than the first. Yes. Yes. Oh, life. There was a fun little moment while we were getting ready for the wedding.

And my hair and makeup lady was like, yeah, no, it's not my first wedding. And I was like, not my first wedding either. But I'm. And I was shocked because as a religious woman myself, I was under the impression that you were pure as the driven snow. That's right. What does that mean? It means you haven't gone around banging. No, no, no.

What the fuck is driven snow? I don't know. Freshly driven through. That wouldn't be pure. By a very clean car. I'm not really sure. You got any Christmas decorations up yet, ma'am? Maybe by the time this comes, I know now I'm sitting in your house, there are no Christmas decorations.

I was going to say, are you trying to act like you were dropped in here by a stork and you don't know me? So what's your name there? That's London's favorite thing to do right now. What? Anytime she walks into a room, she says, what's your name? Oh, that's sweet. And then I'll be like, I'm Mommy. And I'll be like, what's your name?

And she goes, my name's London. That's pretty cute. That's pretty cute. It's so cute. She mostly asks David and David's like, I am daddy. We're pretty sure. No,

we're positive she looks exactly like him. 50-50. There's no way that kid's not his. Should we do an ad? No. No.

We're going to do a butt plug for our Patreon. Darn right we are. Excuse me, everyone. People are thrilled because on the last bonus episode. We had a special guest. Normie C. That's right. From the grave.

Dug his way out to tell a story about his hometown. That's right. From the grave. Dug his way out to tell a story about his hometown. That's right. It was so good. It involved a love triangle. Yeah. Getting fully nude in a public place to seduce a man. Yes. White Oakleys.

Yes. Norm's parents having sex. Stop it. That was brought up. And now Norman's mom can't listen to that episode. She has asked for a link many times. And I'm going to keep ignoring her. And now to do an ad for someone. oh you sign you listen to that that was only half a butt plug oh my god you got the butt part you didn't get the plug part

sorry sorry gang to listen to that bonus episode plus 40 others oh all you have to do is sign up for our patreon at the five dollar level or higher that'll also get you access to do is sign up for our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. That'll also get you access to the Discord, which is like a 90s-style chat room. You can chitty chat the day away with other friends of the show. My lord. What? Are you ready for me to be a pro? Yeah. All right.

If you're listening to this on the day this comes out, waste no time. Go directly to our Patreon and sign up at the $7 level or higher. And you know what will happen then? You can be on our fucking Zoom hangout. That very evening. That's right. We will have a Zoom hangout. That's exactly right.

Will we do another Christmas craft that Brandy will freak out about and abandon halfway through like last year? That is what happened last year. I didn't even make it halfway through. You really threw a fit that year. I did. I might make you do another Christmas craft. Oh, no. Okay.

All right. Now we should do an ad for someone other than ourselves. All right. Fine. Ma'am. for someone other than ourselves. All right. Fine. Ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Would you like me to go first this week? What?

You have already gone first like two episodes in a row. What? So while it is technically an even-numbered episode, I am happy to go first if you would like me to. Oh, my goodness. Is everyone listening to this? my goodness is everyone listening to this um the last time we had a little mixy mix and i wanted to go second you were like no them's the rules you know i'm very much a real rule follower so for that reason i will go first okay if you insist i do do insist. Indeed, I do. Okay.

Oh, I'm sorry. I sounded like the chipmunks. You did. Okay. Okay. All right. Shout outs to, first of all, do you know anything about this case? No, I know nothing about it. I'm quite excited about it.

It is wild. A wild ride? It is Mr. Toad's wild ride. Do I need to be buckled up for it? I suggest you buckle on in. Do I need to be strapped in and strapped on? Tis up to you. I did sound pretty excited about that.

I was going to say. It sounded like you might already have your strap on on you. You're just kind of asking sort of to be polite. Just so it's not appropriate that I have this thing, you know, swinging around over here. Do you say ding-a-ling and dang-a-ling? I sure did. You give me more apt adjectives. No, it's perfect.

I like ding-a-ling. Ding-a-ling. Are those verbs? Those are... Yeah. Huh. I am an English major. It was expensive.

Okay. Shout-outs to the article, Tulia, Drug Bust of 1999 by Alex Hunt for the Texas State Historical Association. Is that Mike's brother? Nope. Shut up. Stop it.

I was tricked into saying Mike Hunt on this podcast a few weeks ago. I shan't do it again. Also, the article The Color of Justice by Nake Blakeslee for the Texas Sub-Server. I'm sorry. It went from Blakelski to Blakely? No, Blakeslee. I'm sorry. I'm very excited.

Oh, yes. And I see the words printed just clear as day in front of me and I can't quite get them out I'm so excited also there's a documentary that I very much enjoyed it's called Tulia Texas colon scenes from the drug war

yeah I'm very sorry for making those noises yes thank you alright here we go so Tulia is a town in Texas then Yeah. Okay. I'm very sorry for making those noises. Yes, thank you. All right. Here we go. So, Trulia is a town in Texas, then? It sure is.

Not an artificial sweetener. That's Trulia. Right. I know we had people who were confused, and there you go. You're welcome. You know, Brandy, not all heroes wear capes. You know, Brandy, not all heroes wear capes. Some of them, like police officer Tom Coleman, wear black cowboy hats. They wear leather jackets. They have glorious hair cascading down their shoulders.

How long is his hair? Pretty long. They have thick blonde mustaches that hang over their upper lip. I hate that. Mustache is fine. Mustache is fine. Just trim it off the lip. Yep.

No hair on the lip. No dingle dangles. No dingle dangles. That's right. That's right. Officer Tom Coleman was a hero and he was born that way, baby. His dad had been a Texas Ranger. The way I see it, Tom had inherited his dad's love of kicking ass and taking names.

But you know something? What? Not everyone appreciates greatness. And that's because some people are just jealous bitches. They said that Tom was a nut. That he had serious problems. That he was paranoid. And that he was a pathological liar.

Was he? They said he was super racist. Just because he said really racist stuff. Yeah, that sounds bad. His fellow officers thought it was over the top that Tom carried at least three guns on him at all times. Was he a dick gun man? I mean, eventually you run out of places. You've got to be a dick gun man.

I mean, eventually you run out of places. You've got to be a dick gun man. And they maybe made fun of him for the time that he was sitting in his patrol car and accidentally shot out his own windshield with shotguns. That is rough when that happens. It's happened to all of us. We've got no judgments. Officer Tom may not have been the brightest bulb, and he may not have been the most ethical guy. And yeah, he may have been a card-carrying member of the KKK, but he wasn't racist, so shut up about it. Okay, well, if he's in the KKK, he's for sure racist.

This is beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. That is just me disagreeing completely. Oh, okay. Because Tom's such a great guy. Great. Let's hear how great he is. Because Tom's such a great guy.

Great. Let's hear how great he is. Brandy, the important thing is that what Tom lacked in all other areas of his life, he more than made up for with passion. Great. And you know what? That was just what Sheriff Larry Stewart was looking for. Sheriff Larry ran the Swisher County Police Force, and Tulia, Texas was the county seat. Which is where all the butts are. Now, to most people, Tulia looks like a sleepy agricultural town. They say, oh, it's just a small place.

There's only 5,000 people living there. They say, oh, there's not a lot of money there because a lot of people live below the poverty line. They point out that the town couldn't even keep a dairy queen in business. Really? Yeah, it tragically closed, leaving behind it nothing but dilly bars. Trail of dilly bars. They say nothing happens in Tulia. There are no bars, no clubs.

Is it a dry town? It's a dry town. No beer or liquor for miles around. I'd give a nickel for a sip or two to wash me down out of this dry town. Easy, Miranda. They say the only thing that Tulia has is livestock and churches. But you know what? The people who say that Tulia is a sleepy little town are just stupid bitches. Wake up, sheeple!

In the late 90s, Sheriff Larry Stewart knew that Tulia was not just a sleepy little town. It was a town with a drug problem. Oh, yeah? Yeah. The war on drugs had made its way to Tulia, Texas, and it was up to Sheriff Larry to do something about it. Luckily, the federal government understood that the war on drugs was totally worth fighting. That's how I feel about it. Rude. Very rude.

So, not that you'll be happy for him, but Sheriff Larry was able to use federal funding to hire an undercover narcotics agent. And for the job, he hired none other than Tom Coleman. Great. I'm glad you think so. I think so as well. Yeah, no. Now, did Sheriff Larry run a background check on Tom? No.

Did he call references? No. Did he do the most basic research on our boy Tom? Like browse his Facebook page? This is 1999, ma'am. Well, actually, 98. Okay. Excuse me. Technically, 97 now that. Well, actually, 98. Okay. Excuse me.

Technically, 97 now that I'm actually thinking about it. Great. Did he look in the yellow pages for him? I don't know. What do you do for a basic check then? Brandy, I will answer none of those questions because they're all very rude. Okay. Got it.

The important thing isn't what Tom's former colleagues would say about him, what his ex-wife would say about him, what anyone would say about him. The important thing to know is that Tom was excited about this job. He'd never done undercover narcotics work before, and what he lacked in experience he made up for in enthusiasm. Yeah, we heard that part already. what he lacked in experience he made up for in enthusiasm. Yeah, we heard that part already.

So he's going to frame people or plant evidence or what's he, what's going to happen here? He's going to save the day. Okay. God. Obviously. Right. Right away, Tom came to Tulia using the alias T.J. Dawson. He's really into Dawson's Creek. Yeah, that tracks for the time period.

T.J. Dawson was an ex-con who loved buying drugs. Oh my goodness, did he buy some drugs. Tom spent a year and a half working undercover in Tulia. There was so much to do, so many drugs to buy. Over the course of that year and a half, he made more than 100 drug buys. Wow. It was incredible. And get a load of this.

Wow. It was incredible. And get a load of this. You'd think that in a small, economically depressed town, the drug of choice was, I don't know, maybe pot, maybe? Wrong. Most of Tom's drug buys were for powder cocaine. Really? Yeah.

Tulia was up to its dilly bars in cocaine. Up to its dilly bars. Yeah, Tom was truly doing the lurds work. Great. And he was happy to do it. You okay there? Was he using the drugs? Brandy, he's a police officer. I know know and my question stands

well let me read you a quote from him and you tell me if he was doing drugs okay he later said why did i do it for 18 months because i hate dope dealers and I hate dope. Period. That's it. You just say nope to dope. That's right. Kind of a badass, huh? Yeah, I guess. You getting some stirrings in your undercarriage for old

TJ Dawson? No! So Tom was out there being a little sneaky sneak undercover agent. And you know what? This is amazing. He was so good at being undercover that he didn't even have to wear a wire. Wow. He didn't even have any video evidence.

Oh, good. He didn't have to have an undercover officer there to back him up. What? That's the breaks. What? So, these buys over this 18-month period. Over 100. Thank you very much. So, what was the tracking on those? He was purchasing with

marked money and then turning those drugs directly into the police department? Or... Brandy, if you could keep your pants on around mr tj dawson he would tell you all about his elaborate system okay great because there was a system now as i said you know no photos no wire no none of that. It was just Tom. Out there. Doing his thing. Jotting down notes on his leg about who sold him

cocaine at what time and where. What? Why was he jotting it on his leg? Do you have a better idea? Well, okay, first of all, I have a lot of questions about that. Was he wearing shorts? I don't believe so.

I believe he pulled up his pant blanket. What? That's even weirder. Well, no, you don't want people to see. Think with your head, Brandy. Has he heard of notepads? I'm so glad you mentioned a notepad because other people also mention notepads. Yeah.

And he has a response for that. He said that he didn't write his notes in a notepad because if he left that notepad laying around somewhere, someone might have found it. Uh-huh. Great. Okay. So it's on his skin. He's not going to leave his leg. Okay. Great. Okay. So it's on his skin. He's not going to leave his leg. Okay. Great.

Brandy, do you see any troubles with writing down all that pertinent information on one's leg? So many troubles. Does not seem like a real great record-keeping method. Interesting. Okay. Record-keeping method. Interesting. Okay, well, Sheriff Larry was thrilled with Tom's undercover work, and so was the local district attorney, Terry McEachern.

McEachern? McEachern. M-C-E-A-C-H-E-R-N. Yeah. McEachern. McEachern. They understood that in a town this small, typical undercover methods just wouldn't work. Yeah, you gotta ride on a leg. Yeah, if Tom wore a wire, he might trip over it or cut off the circulation to his dick, you know?

You never know what could happen. How are you fixing this wire? So it was fine that Tom was the only witness to all these drug deals. Oh, okay. But, oops, at some point. I did it again. I tied up my dick. This is why I don't wear a wire.

Oh, baby. Because it's too tight. I just ride on my leg. I just ride on my leg. Yeah, so about five months into Tom's undercover assignment, something kind of embarrassing happened. Sheriff Larry discovered that there was a warrant out for Tom's arrest. No shit? Yeah, yeah.

It seems like just a classic mix-up here. No! Why? Well... You didn't even run him through the system? You didn't get him warrants? You really didn't do shit. Oh, that's rude. To vet this guy.

Hey, he did make some calls. Now, he can't remember to whom and when and where. He probably wrote that on his leg, then took a shower. When and where. He probably wrote that on his leg then took a shower. Anyway, Tom had been charged with theft in Cochran County where he used to be a police officer. Cochran County? Mm-hmm. Ma'am, how old are you?

Twelve. You're a married woman. I'm somebody's mother. Oh, you're a mother, all right. Turns out Tom'd used... Tom'd. Tom'd! A past tense of Tom.

Tom used the county... Ha ha ha! Tom used the county... Ha ha ha! Ooh! Tomming his present tense. Ha ha ha! He'd used the county credit card to put gas in his personal vehicle. Was he on county business?

Uh, no. Okay, that does seem wrong. Seems wrong and is wrong. He also owed like seven grand to a bunch of local vendors. And rather than pay those vendors, he just skipped town. Oh, great. Just got right out of Cochrane County. Did you call it Cochrane?

Cochrane. It is not pronounced Cochrane County. Did you call it Coch-ring? It is not pronounced Coch-ring. What if they invented the Coch-ring? They did! And they're like Corsicana with the fruitcakes. That's right! They're just making all these Coch-rings, bringing people pleasure all over the world.

people pleasure all over the world. So Sheriff Larry sadly did have to arrest Tom. Yeah. But don't worry, he didn't fill out any paperwork related to the arrest. He certainly didn't make Tom do anything like pose for a mugshot, you know. Instead, he worked out a deal so that Tom could pay the vendors back and the charges would go bye-bye and then Tom would get right back to his very important undercover work. Great. And thank goodness he did.

Because you know what? In a town of about 5,000 people, Tom identified 47 drug dealers. Okay, this guy's just making shit up. These people were bad ononis, Brandy. Bad-onis? What is that? Is that like a pepperoni? My dad calls people bad-onis.

I have no idea what it means. Sounds like, yeah, a version of a pepperoni. These are the bad-onis. It's for like the really spicy kind. That's right. You like pepperonis, do you? We love bad bad onis. It's for like the really spicy kind. That's right. You like pepperonis, do you? Yeah. Well, you'll love bad onis.

Yeah. These folks, like, every last one of them sold their drugs within a thousand feet of a school or park. And those are drug-free zones, Brandi, which meant that these dope dealers were out there committing first-degree felonies. Okay. Are you looking at porn on your pooter there? What are you doing? No, I just got a text message. I was making sure it wasn't, you know, an emergency about London. Turns out it wasn't. It was just a picture of some pizza. So everything's fine.

You certainly looked at it like it might be an emergency. Was it covered in bad onis? No. Well, really, it's just that. What? I mean, this is so not important and nobody cares. No. David's mom sent a picture of pizza.

And it's clear that she is asking it. It's in the family group. Asking them to guess where she got it from. Okay. asking, it's in the family group, asking them to guess where she got it from. But instead, David and his sister Caitlin have both responded saying it's not theirs. What? Like she's asking if somebody left

it in her fridge. What kind of family is this? Let me tell you something something if someone leaves leftovers in my fridge goodbye to you oh absolutely no that's that's good i didn't work hard on this at all please please participate in the family group chat okay everyone participate in the family group chat. Kate. Everyone.

I'm sorry. We need to talk about Kevin. I mean Brandy. We need to talk about Brandy's behavior. I'm just like, why are they saying no, it's not mine? You know, ma'am, I'm okay with the listeners looking at group text as I tell my story, but maybe my co-host could actually engage.

Oh, I apologize. Oh, wow. Wow. Listen to that. It's a very unprofessional thing. Now I'm going to abuse this and go off on wild tangents that have nothing to do with anything. So, yeah. Needless to say, they had to get these fuckers off the streets.

Yeah. Yeah. All the fake drug dealers. No, very real drug dealers. The police. Where's the drugs? Where is the drugs? So he, you know, it's powdered cocaine. He logs it up in Amarillo, I assume, up.

I don't really know where Amarillo is in relation to Tulia. I have no idea. So Tom had been working as part of the Panhandle Regional Narcotics Trafficking Task Force. And so the rest of those fellows came into town. They worked with the local police and they planned the bust for the early morning hours of July 23rd, 1999. Okay, great. And they were like, we're going to party like it's 1999. That's exactly what they were like.

Yeah. By taking away all the cocaine. Well, they would have it so then they could party. That morning they'd burst into people's homes. They'd arrest them. They'd grab up all their drugs and weapons and fat stacks of drug money. And then they'd say something really cool like, it's cleanup time.

Ha! And that's what they did. In the early morning hours of July 23rd, they burst into the homes of these drug dealers. Who weren't drug dealers at all. They were drug dealers. People that this racist guy targeted. Hey, you saw the leg notes.

The writing's on the leg here. The writing's on the leg. These people were definitely criminals. No. Not just citizens who were asleep in their beds yeah they were terrified yeah one man ewell bryant had been sleeping when the officers showed up and he was wearing a pair of boxers i mean he's nothing like you some people just sleep in their underwear turtleneck and full-length pants you You're going to hate the rest of this. Okay.

So all of a sudden, they're in his home saying they were going to arrest him. And he was like, well, okay, I need to get dressed. Yeah. And they were like, first motherfucker hit the ground! They said, where you're going, you don't need no clothes. What is this, Back to the Future? I never saw that movie. Where we're going, we don't need roads. Oh, okay.

You know, as a never-newt, I expected you to be more alarmed about the fact that they took this man out. Out of his house. I can't even focus on it. I have to move on. Would you just drop dead, you think? Yes. You'd probably pass out. I would.

I really think I would. And then they'd just be dragging your underwear, clad body. Yeah. I'm sorry, that's not funny. It would be terrible. That's the worst thing that could happen. She's so snorty. I'm sorry.

I'll just like wake up in jail with no clothes on and pass right back out. I am picturing you in a pair of full coverage cotton briefs. And they drag you on the ground to the squad car. And in the process, the undies do get a little dusty. Oh, for sure. Well, probably half my ass comes out. Don't the undies kind of roll down a little bit? I hadn't pictured that in my fantasy, but, you know, anything can happen.

When the police stormed Joe Henderson's house, he was obviously shaken up and his young children were terrified. Henderson's house, he was obviously shaken up and his young children were terrified. They started crying, seeing all these officers going after their dad. And Joe said, please don't do this in front of my kids. And the chief of police told him, we can do what we want to do. Wow. And they did. They arrested 47 people that morning. Not one of them drug dealers. Where were all the drugs? We'll get to that. Okay. We'll get to the massive stash of drugs they found.

Three ounces of pot between all of them. A lot of people were half-dressed, their hair was a mess, and it was in that condition, in their underwear, in a nightgown, that authorities handcuffed them and invited the local media to document the whole thing. Dead. I know. You would die. I would literally die. So there is news footage of Yule handcuffed in his underwear being taken to jail.

Holy shit. Can you believe that? No! It was quite a sight. All these big, bad, disheveled drug dealers were on the news for all to see. The local newspaper, the Tulia Sentinel, ran a headline accompanying their story, which read, Tulia's streets cleared of garbage.

Wow. The Tulia Herald published all the names and addresses of all the people who were arrested. You're fucking kidding me. Nope. In 1999? Mm-hmm. Hadn't we learned about privacy and stuff by then? I mean,

they're... These are bad drug dealers, right? They're showing people in their underwear handcuffs. Holy hell. Innocent until proven guilty, am I right? Yeah. Mm-mm, mm-mm, mm-mm. It was a victory. That day, they arrested so many people

that the local jail ran out of room. They had to send those drug dealers to other towns. Okay, are we to the drugs yet? When we find out how many drugs they... Just hang on, hang on. Now, as part of this drug bust, it's perhaps worth mentioning that in addition to arresting people, authorities also got a chance to search their homes. But the police didn't find any drugs. Yeah. No drugs. Because these people are not drug dealers.

I'm not a drug dealer and you can find drugs in my house. 47 drug dealers, no drugs. Yeah. These sound like the shittiest drug dealers I've ever heard. They also didn't find any drug paraphernalia. No weapons. They didn't find big stacks of cash. And, weirdly, even though you'd think that being a Coke dealer would be a little lucrative,

none of these folks appeared to have any disposable income to speak of. But don't worry about it. Sheriff Larry wasn't worried about it. The DA wasn't worried about it. I'm fucking worried about it! Really? Why? Yeah, because obviously Tom Watts' butt is full of shit! Yeah.

Anyone should be able to see. Yes! Like, the second they do this and they find no drugs. Yes! They should know, hmm. Hmm. Something isn't adding up here. Yeah.

Bly. Now, Brandy, this is just a coincidence. And I'm only bringing this up because other people tend to make a big deal out of this. But of the 47 people who were arrested that day, 38 of them were black. And Julia didn't have that many black people living there, so in effect, that meant that they just arrested 10% of the black people living in Tulia. Okay. The other people who were arrested were either Hispanic or they were white people who were in romantic relationships with black people. Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.

Weird, what could possibly be the motivating factor? relationships with black people. Weird. What could possibly be the motivating factor here? We don't know. It's a mystery. You know, you ask me or you ask Tom, he didn't set out to just find black people.

I don't make the drug dealers. Except for when I do. Except for when I do. Except for when I made this whole fucking thing up. The Tulia drug bust was devastating for the tiny black community of Tulia. Some people had multiple family members locked up. As a result of these arrests, more than 50 children had one or both of their parents locked up. As a result of these arrests, more than 50 children had one or both of their parents locked up. And this wasn't some quick thing. Generally speaking, the people who got arrested didn't have money for bail. They certainly couldn't afford an attorney. So most of them

sat in jail. They lost their jobs. Their families and friends had to struggle without them. But hear me out. I mean, if they didn't want to go to jail, they probably shouldn't have been Coke dealers. Am I right? Well, they weren't fucking Coke dealers. The important thing is that the Tulia drug bust was a big success. It was going to bring in a lot of money. See, task forces get money from the federal government based on the number of arrests they make. So the number of people they arrested in Tulio went to the government and the money went back to the local police department. Yay! You don't seem excited. I'm not. Well, Tom Coleman was, and he was celebrated for all of his excellent work.

The Texas Department of Public Safety named him Outstanding Lawman of the Year. Mm, mm-hmm, great. Amazing, isn't it? No. Especially when you consider that his previous boss put a letter in his official file saying that Tom Coleman should not work in law enforcement. Guess that guy didn't know his ass from his elbow, huh? So while Tom was getting his accolades, the 47 people he'd arrested were sitting around

shell-shocked because they were innocent. Yeah. That's a huge reveal. Oh my God. No, okay, sorry. I thought there were 47 Coke dealers in this tiny,

impoverished town. Let's take it again. Oh yeah, yeah. Because they were innocent. What? I know. I thought they were Coke dealers.

We all did, Brandy. I thought this was an entire they were Coke dealers. We all did, Brandy. I thought this was an entire town of Coke dealers. It's so sad. It's like when all the moms in town are LuLaRoe dealers. Who are they going to sell to? It's very incestuous. The silver lining in this gigantic shit show was that the prosecution didn't have strong cases against anybody. Sounds like they have no case against anybody.

Hey, hey, hey, hey, they've got Tom Coleman's leg. And his mouth, which will testify. But this lack of evidence didn't bother Swisher County District Attorney Terry. Oh, my God. I think you might need to start that one over. Why? What do you think? But this lack of evidence didn't bother Swisher County District Attorney Terry McEachern.

He was ready and willing to take these cases to trial, so he did. Oh, this is a boy Terry? Brittany, it's Texas. I was picturing a lady Terry. In 1999. No. Okay, sorry. Hold on.

I got to redesign him in my head. Okay, I got it now. A guy named Joe Moore was the first person from the drug bust to go on trial. The DA said that Joe Moore was the kingpin of this whole thing. He was a huge drug dealer. Oh, yeah, was he? Yep. Worth noting, Joe Moore lived in a one-room home.

A lot of the windows are busted out. Shingles are falling off the roof. He feeds hogs for a living. Yeah. Sounds like a Coke dealer. Yeah. Coke Kingpin. Excuse me. Yeah. Yeah. He's not just a dealer. It's a facade. I bet there's a secret lair at that house. And boom, mansion. Yeah. You go in it, mansion also mansion also stolen art all over the place all the paintings from the isabella stewart gardener museum are in joe moore's secret mansion joe moore later said i don't even know how a kingpin lives or nothing i don't know nothing about that but i know they live 30 times better than this.

No, 100 times better than this. Oh. He was pretty funny. Joe had two prior convictions on his record. And, you know, Tom took the stand and told the jury that Joe sold him cocaine. And the jury found Joe guilty. He was sentenced to 90 years in prison. Shut the fuck up. Yep. Oh no. Joe's trial scared the shit out of the other people who'd been arrested. Yeah. A young man named Freddie Brookens Jr.

didn't have any prior convictions. He was offered five years, but he was innocent. Yeah. He didn't want to plead guilty to something he didn't do. So he went to trial and he got 20 years. Kizzy Henry didn't have any prior convictions either. She got 25 years. A guy named William Cash Love was also innocent. He was sentenced to 361 years. Eight of these cases went to trial pretty quickly. And in all these cases, only one of the jurors was black. Excellent.

of the jurors was black. Excellent. The jury believed Tom every time with nothing to back him up. That's terrible. Eventually, the defense attorneys found out about Tom Coleman's arrest. They discovered that Sheriff Larry had literally arrested him in the middle of this undercover operation. The defense attorneys argued that the fact that Tom had been arrested for theft needed to be mentioned at trial. It spoke to his credibility, like this is all on his word. Yes. But Judge Ed Self, who presided over most of these trials, Disagreed.

Great. So that information wasn't presented at trial. I believe it might have been presented at one of these trials. I can't remember. I watched a lot of videos on this, but bottom line, the jury always cited Tom. Wonderful. What? Nothing. The Tulia drug bust victims were terrified. They hadn't done what they were accused of doing, but they saw the writing on the wall. People were going to prison for decades.

Do you mean on the leg? Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. No one saw it because he washed his stupid fucking legs. He wasn't wearing jorts. I don't think so. Oh, man, I even have that in here. People were going to prison for decades based off of the testimony of a dude who wrote notes on his leg. So people started taking plea deals.

Ramona Strickland took a plea deal and paid a fine. Ramona Strickland took a plea deal and paid a fine. Tom Coleman's description of her from their supposed drug deal said that she was six months pregnant. Ramona hadn't been pregnant for like six years, but she didn't want to risk going to trial. Because it wouldn't matter. They wouldn't believe her. Exactly. Leroy Barrow had been accused of selling Tom an eight ball of cocaine, which was wild considering that Leroy picks up cans for a living and doesn't have electricity in his home. But yeah, he's dealing eight balls of coke.

Yeah. Leroy decided that even though he was innocent, he'd be better off pleading guilty to a lesser charge. So that's what he did. A lot of people took plea deals, but roughly 25% of the people who were arrested pled not guilty and went to trial. And, you know, some of those cases were kind of tough for the prosecution. For example, Tom Coleman had said that this guy, Yule Bryant, had sold him cocaine. And in his notes, Tom described Yule as a tall black guy with bushy hair. Yule Bryant is 5'6", and he's bald. Tall. And has been for years.

Okay. So tall. Something I love about Yule. Most sources say he's 5'6", but occasionally when he's in interviews, he'll be like, I'm 5'6 or 5'7". Depends on if I have my boots on. You're 5'7 in my mind. Also, Yule was at a fair about 50 miles away from Tulia when this supposed drug deal went down, so his case got dismissed. Another guy, Billy Wafer, had been at work at the local seed processing plant when...

Billy Wafer? Yeah. It's my favorite snack. Billy Wafer? What? Like a wafer. Never mind. We went that far for a joke about you enjoying wafers?

Patty, obviously cut that. No, Patty, you have to get that. Patty, cut it. Patty, cut it. Patty, don't you dare. What's your favorite kind of wafer, huh? A Billy wafer. Do they taste like real billies? They're made with real

billies. Gross. Oh my gosh. You know how he makes those, right? How? He sticks wafers to his body, goes for a run, and peels them off and sends them to you in the mail. That's disgusting. And yet you love them, so who am I to judge is my motto. So I don't judge.

Ever. Anyway, before I was interrupted, Billy had time cards to show that he was at work. And by work, I mean putting wafers on his body and going for a run and sending them to Brandy for her afternoon tea. Never go to tea at Brandy's house. That's what I always say. These smell like Billy wafers. Are they Billy wafers? So Billy had time cards to show

that he was at work and his former boss was willing to testify that Billy had been at work that day, which is funny. I wouldn't think you'd need a boss for that but Brandy needs her wafers that's right someone's got to oversee the packaging that's right also you don't want Bob's wafers no I want Billy wafers. Yeah, absolutely. And you know Bob's going to try to get in on it. That's right.

She won't notice a difference. It's just a little saltier. No, she'll know. She will know. Oh, she'll know. She will know. This is the most ridiculous. This is so stupid.

Do you have regerts? I do. I do. So, the DA dropped that case too. Sorry. Then there was a case. Then there was the case against. Peter Cracker.

My favorite kind of cracker. So stupid. Then there was the case against Tanya White. Okay. Who made excellent snowballs. Yes. White. Okay.

I made excellent snowballs. She was able to produce a bank receipt that showed that she'd been in Oklahoma City at the time when Tom Coleman said that she sold him drugs. Yeah. But it was better than that because as part of that transaction, she deposited a check and then withdrew $8. And as a result, she had to sign some paperwork. And that made it an assisted transaction, which meant that a bank teller had seen her there at the bank. Oh, that is good. What paperwork does she have to sign for $8?

I don't know. She just had to sign. Okay. There wasn't, like, multiple forms. I realize when I said paperwork, it sounds like in here, and you sign here. And then initial here, here, and here. And here's your $8. You want that in small bills?

And thank you for banking with us today. Have a complimentary Billy wafer. Thank you. You'll find them located next to the Peter Krakers. Thank you so much for dropping off these snowballs. We know you have a lot of choices when it comes to banking. Now those billy wafers are limit one per customer. So don't get greedy.

So stupid. Well, I guess in the argument over whether Patty can cut that bit, I win. So Tanya's case was dismissed. But three of her siblings weren't so lucky. They all went to prison as a result of this drug bust. Gosh. By this point, people were starting to question the Tulia drug. Yeah.

So let's get to the part where, like, we figure it out. It's an all lie. And we get to all 47 of them get to sue the pants off of Tulia and the sheriff's office. And Tom Coleman gets his ass in prison. And when they sue the pants off of him, they see his bare legs and they say frame a bunch of people. Yes. Yeah. A group of friends formed the Friends of Justice. And they began talking about the Tulia drug bust and advocating for the people who'd been arrested.

They got the Amarillo chapter of the NAACP involved. An attorney named Jeff Blackburn, who I've talked about in, like, all of my Texas cases. I'm obsessed with this man. He got involved. Pretty soon, Vanita Gupta, who worked for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, got involved too. News articles came out about this case. The Texas Observer covered it. Then the New York Times.

Then 60 Minutes. A documentary came out. People outside of Tulia were outraged. How did the people inside of Tulia feel about it? They felt like justice had been done. Great. The white people. Yeah, exactly.

Elaine Jones, who was head of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, said, How do 46 drug dealers function in a community of 5,000 people? What's the client base? I was going to say, who the fuck are they selling to? Who are 46 drug dealers selling drugs to? Yes. The defendants in Tulia are guilty of being black and living in Tulia. That's what they're guilty of.

Yeah. She was right. Didn't make sense. No. Outsiders were pretty certain that this drug bust had been racially motivated. It had targeted the black community in Tulia. What's that little rag for? What little rag?

That little rag. Oh, it looks like an eyeglass cleaner, don't you think? I guess it could be. Well, I guess this is my house. Yes, that's why I'm asking you. I assume that my husband came in here to record some narration because he's a very famous YouTuber. And perhaps he cleaned his glasses so he could squeaky, squeaky, squeaky, get a better look at the screen. Oh, that makes sense.

And thus deliver to you a wonderful YouTube video. Perhaps it's about Mario Kart. Perhaps you should turn off this podcast. I mean, after my story before Brandy starts and then go watch it.

Perhaps you should listen for a familiar voice. Oh, oh, did a very sexy lady make a guest appearance on that video? I don't know about that,

but I'm on it. You did a lovely job, Brittany. Thank you. Okay, sorry. Back to your story. Uh-huh. So, you know, people had their suspicions about this. I've had my suspicions since the beginning.

Wow. A genius sits among us. Sucking on belly wafers. Outside the tasty freeze. But these outsiders, they were wrong. And Tom Coleman wasn't afraid to say it. He told the media that he hadn't targeted anyone. He just went where the road led him.

Okay. He said they were all guilty, including the people who had, you know, the airtight alibis. Yeah. He said, the defendants know when it right boils down to it, they handed me the dope and I handed them the money. And he wasn't racist. Not the least little bit. But people started digging into his past and it didn't take much digging to learn that Tom proudly used racial slurs. What does that mean? Proudly? What? Here's how proud he was. He was so proud that when the media asked him about his use of racial slurs, like, hey, people say you use the N-word all the time. Is that true?

He used racial slurs in his on-camera responses. That's super comfortable using racial slurs, as it turns out. I'm going to read some quotes, and every time I point to you, you go bleep. I will. Okay, I'm ready. Obviously, I'm not actually saying the words. Obviously. i didn't know if there was going to be some person like people no we're not saying the word yeah everybody's making a big deal oh god he said the word bleep like oh let's put them in the electric chair well yeah the word bleep was bad back in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s,

and 70s, but now it's a common slang, you know? I mean, people, you can watch TV and hear that word, you know? It's a greeting. No. No, it's not. My favorite was when he went through all the decades. It was bad in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. But not now. Not now. My personal favorite interview came from Tom's appearance on 60 Minutes, which he was not smart enough to stay away from. For this segment, he was interviewed by Ed Bradley, who is black. And here's how that

exchange went. Once again, I'm going to have to throw it to you because of course he says the N-word. Why wouldn't he? He says it to a black man, too. Wonderful. Cool. It's great. too wonderful cool great awesome great the word bleep yes sir i've used that word i've used it a lot yeah sup bleep uh-huh sup uh-huh what yep that's what this dipshit said on 60 Minutes when asked about his use of racist language. Wow. Ed, is that a greeting you'd use with me? Tom, oh no sir, not you. Ed, but it's okay to use around other people? Tom. Yes, sir. Ed. Do you consider yourself to be a racist? Tom. No, sir. Ed. Do you see how some people might hear what you say and think that you are a racist and that you simply railroaded dozens of people because of their race?

Tom. That's been said, yes, sir, but that wasn't the case. Okay. sir but that wasn't the case okay it's truly amazing that tom was dumb enough to speak to the media but think the good lord he did because in the process he showed his whole racist butthole yes by this point it had been a few years since the arrests a lot of people were locked up and had been for quite some time. Yeah, we got to get them out. Brandy, this is a past tense story. We got to get them out now.

Are they out? Are they out? Did they get out? And is Tom in now? The defense lawyers. Just like for racism. Being racism. Being racism.

The living embodiment of racism. He is a walking Klan robe. Yeah. The defense lawyers got new hearings for several of the defendants. And they got Judge self to recuse himself i'm sorry allow myself to introduce myself you get the idea he Yes, we get it. It wasn't his idea. It was their idea.

He was not happy about it. It just happens that his last name is Seville. Turns out he was just as stupid as Tom Coleman. He had written a letter to the editor defending the drug bust. So all these defense attorneys had to do was be like, well, look here. So he had to go bye bye oh i get it he didn't have to do the dance but he did but it's a good dance so you may hate me but it ain't no lie baby bye bye bye god that's a good song anyway judge, Judge Ronald Chapman took himself into the self-courtroom to judge these selfless individuals.

No, he was retired, and he was from Dallas. And he was in charge of deciding whether these defendants should get new trials. charge of deciding whether these defendants should get new trials. At the hearings in March of 2003, the defense argued that the information about Tom Coleman being charged with theft should have been allowed at trial. Yes. They actually argued a lot of things because this whole thing was such an avoidable mess. Yes. I mean, at any step of the way. Yeah. This should have been stopped. And in a surprise move in the middle of these hearings, the prosecution basically pissed themselves and recommended that the court drop charges against all of the defendants. Holy shit. One source said that Tom Coleman was testifying and the judge just cut him off because he was like, this is just ridiculous.

The judge said that Tom's testimony was riddled with perjury, that he was entirely unbelievable under oath. The judge called Tom, quote, the most deviant, nonresponsive law enforcement witness this court has witnessed in 25 years on the bench in Texas. Witness. Yeah, I don't like that he used it twice in that sentence either, but he did it and I have no choice but to read it as it is written. Okay, so what happens now? They just open up. No, stop it. They open up the jail cells and everybody runs out. The dawning of the age of Aquarius is playing in the background. Oh, that'd be cool.

Billy wafers for everyone. Billy wafers all around! On June 16th, 2003, everyone who had been. It's four days after my birthday. Oh, my God. Everyone who had been. I'm 17. Okay.

I'm all hot. Yeah, you are. Oh, yeah. Bet you wish I had some wafers stuck to me. On June 16th, 2003, just mere days after Brandy's birthday, everyone who had been convicted in the Tulia drug bust was released from prison. They'd been in prison for roughly four years. And they got together in a little circle and they all looked themselves in the mirror. Hang on.

A few months later, August 22nd, 2003. That's the day after my sister's birthday. Are you serious? Governor Rick Perry pardoned 35 of the people who'd been convicted in the drug bust. Why only 35? I think others hadn't been convicted. Some people had their charges dropped. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, okay.

Exactly. Tom's like, present. Oh, shit, that wasn't a roll call. Jeff Blackburn stayed on the case and won some lawsuits for the defendants. The Tulia defendants received about $6 million in settlements. But this drug bust had a terrible impact on people. One of the men who was arrested was interviewed on the 20th anniversary of the drug bust. His name is Christopher Jackson, and he said that to this day he can't sleep in.

He said, I get up early, early. It's just a habit, man, because you know, you don't know what they're going to do. They did it once. Who says they won't do it again? Oh, that's fucking terrible. Now, you might be asking yourself, whatever happened to 1999's Outstanding Lawman of the Year, Tom Coleman? Yeah, where'd Tom Coleman go? Well, after the drug bust, he got another job in law enforcement, but he got fired from that job for sexual harassment. Which, I mean, what you had to do to get fired for sexual harassment in the year 2000. I mean, my God. Yeah.

Seriously. Had to wrap a wire around your dick and tell somebody it was a gift. I don't know. It's my dick in a box. Ooh, it's my dick in a box, girl. Cutting off circulation. Ooh. But then the truly, I called it Trulia here.

Then the Splenda drug bust caught up with him. Sort of. He was indicted for three counts of aggravated perjury. That's it? Yeah, you're not gonna like this next part. Three counts? I know I sure didn't. Three counts? Mm-hmm. Seems like 47 people were accused. Our favorite thing's about to happen. Okay, so he faced up to 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine for each felony charge. The prosecution dropped one of the charges. So when he went to trial in 2005, it all came down to whether he'd lied at the 2003 hearing when he said he'd never stolen gas using a county credit card, and whether he'd lied when he said that he didn't learn that there was a theft charge against him until August of 1998. Now for the part that we hate. He couldn't be tried for the testimony that he gave at any of the Tulia drug bust victims' trials.

Because he has immunity as a... The statute of limitations. You shut your fucking face. Right? Yeah. They could only get him on this stuff that he said at that hearing in 2003. That is such bullshit. That is bullshit.

So his trial took place in Lubbock, Texas. Lubbock or leave it as I say. Love that song. In front of a jury of 11 white people and one Hispanic person. They deliberated for two and a half hours. They acquitted him on the gas charge and they found him guilty of lying about when he'd learned about the theft charge. Mm-hmm. So then it came to the sentencing phase.

Yeah, what's he get, one day of unsupervised probation? The prosecution talked about the Tule of drug bust and all the damage that Tom had done. They advocated for prison time. Victims of the drug bust spoke to the jury. I called it a drug bust. Apologies. There's supposed to be a T there. Changes the word entirely.

It does. Freddie Brookins Jr. said, I was incarcerated for something I didn't do. I missed seeing my kids grow up. incarcerated for something I didn't do. I missed seeing my kids grow up. But Tom's defense attorney argued that as a former police officer, Tom would have a real tough time in prison. No, that's just too bad for him. He said that probation would be punishment enough. And the judge agreed. Oh my gosh. Tom Coleman was sentenced to 10 years of probation and a $7,500 fine. He never admitted any wrongdoing related to the Thule drug bust, and he certainly never apologized.

The DA in this case, Terry McEachern, got the tiniest slap on the wrist by the Texas Bar Association. They found that he had engaged in misconduct when he prosecuted these cases. Yeah. So they suspended his law license for two years. But he was still allowed to practice law during those two years, as long as he basically promised to be a little good boy. So he never stopped practicing law. He lost his election, but, I mean, he was fine. Incredibly, there are people who still don't see this case for what it is.

Michelle White was one of the victims of the Tulia drug bust, and she went on to become a certified nursing assistant. Thule drug bust. And she went on to become a certified nursing assistant. But she said that even years after this whole thing was over, in quotation marks, people still talked about her like she was the bad guy. She said, they still call you a drug dealer, even though your case has been overturned. They made a mistake by letting us out. You hear that a lot. Wow. They made a mistake by letting us out. You hear that a lot. Wow. And that is the story of the Tulia drug bust in 1999.

That was wild. It's, oh gosh. It's so gross to me because it's so obvious. Yes. That this guy was full of shit. Yes. Anyone should have seen that full of shit. Yes. Anyone should have seen that along the way. Yeah.

The DA, anyone in the DA's office, the fucking sheriff, any of the other officers, anyone involved in this. Yeah. You're telling me we've got a ton of drug dealers in this town. We go arrest them. There's no drugs. Right. Yeah. It's ridiculous.

At least they got punished in the end, huh? Wow. Yeah. You love to hear that they got what they had coming there at the end. All right, you ready to talk about some online dating? Yes, my God. Is it going to be a light one? No. Oh, okay.

It's my case. Someone's going to get murdered. Great. Obviously. Oh, Lord. All right, I got this from a new show that I had not heard of called Sex and Murder. Oh. It's an HLN show that I had not heard of called Sex and Murder. Oh.

It's an HLN show that I did, okay, full disclosure, read a recap of and watched some clips. Did not watch the entire program. Couldn't be bothered, eh? I preferred to read articles and other stuff. Oh, God. It's that bad? I was not a fan of the show. Anyway.

Also, ChillingCrimes.com had a wonderful entry. Always. Always. Phil Lyne knew something was wrong. It was Saturday, April 9th, 2016, and Phil had just arrived at the house of his ex-wife, Ingrid Lyne, to do their scheduled handoff of the couple's three young daughters. Phil and Ingrid hadn't been divorced long, but they had settled into...

Oh my God. Did someone kill this woman and her three daughters? No. Okay. Phil's got the kids. Oh. Calm down. So he's not picking... No. okay i'm sorry i get it i know i get it brandy case it is a it is a brandy case but no the daughters are fine the daughters are fine

phil has the daughters yeah i'm bringing them for drop off i'm on they so they were pretty recently divorced but by all accounts phil and Ingrid had a very friendly relationship still and were doing very, very well at co-parenting. And they'd fallen into this very routine in the driveway and it was like always parked in the same spot. Phil's concern grew when he knocked on the door and no one answered. And then he tried to call Ingrid several times. And again, no answer. The calls just went to voicemail. This wasn't like Ingrid at all. Her daughters were her world.

Ingrid worked as a nurse at Swedish Medical Center. No word on if she got that job because her name was Ingrid. But I have to assume it's connected somehow. Some have some favoritism. You do. Anyway, Swedish Medical Center is in Seattle. But Phil, why is it Swedish Medical Center? I don't know.

I have no idea. You're telling me you didn't even look. What if in the hospital all they serve are meatballs? They just have Ikea hospital beds oh that'd be terrible put together your own bed they fall apart constantly but the meatballs are good pretty good they might have horse meat in them what that was a whole thing oh gross there's probably a lawsuit about it. Oh, no. These are things I don't want to hear about. Anyway, continue.

Sorry. Anyway, so she was a nurse at Swedish Medical Center. No word if that was because her name was Ingrid or, you know, but we can we have to make assumptions here. But Phil knew she was off that day specifically because it was the day of the handoff and she was eagerly anticipating the return of her three daughters. Right. When Phil was unable to reach Ingrid, he reached out to Ingrid's mother, Jorga or Jorga. I don't know which way it's pronounced. I heard it both ways. Okay. It's spelled J-O-R-G-A. I tried to look it up on like a pronunciation site.

And then I tried to listen to it pronounced. And it was pronounced both ways on the show. Both ways on the show? Well, you know, like one person pronounced it one way. What do they mean? Yeah, exactly. I got you. So like, I'm not sure.

Jorga or Yorga, perhaps. I also tried to listen to some news clips. Nobody said her name. Anyway, my sincerest apologies. Anyway, so he calls Yorga, which is how I believe it's pronounced. I would imagine. Yes. That sounds right.

Yes. And was like, hey, I'm out the house to drop the girls off. Ingrid is not here. I can't get a hold of her. Have you talked to her? And she was like, no, I haven't heard from her at all. That's very unusual. And so she had a key to Ingrid's house.

And so Ingrid's mother came over and met Phil at the house. And they went in to the house together. Inside, there was no sign of Ingrid, but there was a burp. No. And they were like, was that a ghost? Oh, another one. What the hell is happening? I don't know.

It's a gassy ghost. Gassy ghost. So inside there was no sign of Ingrid, but there was her purse and her cell phone and her driver's license. All things that she would not have left without. No one leaves without. Yes.

This was obviously super concerning. And at that time, okay, some of the articles say that Yorga called 911. But I'm pretty sure on the show that they said Phil called 911. One of them calls 911 and reports that Ingrid is missing. Maybe they did like a tag team thing. Maybe they called together. Anyway. Or maybe they both called. They could have. Yeah. Yeah. And so they call, report her missing. And then they also started to reach out to some friends, some neighbors, see if anybody had talked to Ingrid. One of Ingrid's friends said that she had gotten a text from Ingrid the night before, around 1030 that night, that she was on a date. And then they also talked

to a neighbor of Ingrid's, and he said that Ingrid had been dating a man named John that he'd seen him a couple times over the last several weeks. Was his last name Smith? I mean, this sucks. So, Yorga and Phil weren't aware that Ingrid was dating anyone. It wasn't something that she had talked about openly with her family. And it seems like according to the friends and the neighbor, it wasn't. It was. It was super new and it wasn't serious by any means.

Right. She'd seen him a handful of times over the past maybe like six weeks. OK. And so at this point, Yorga's like, well, that's probably our best bet is to get in contact with whoever she was on a date with. And so Yorga and Ingrid were on the same cell phone plan. And so Yorga logs into her account and is like, OK, let's see if I can find a number for someone. And so she looks at Ingrid's call records and sees that there is one particular number that comes up pretty regularly. And it's not a number she recognizes as a different area code, a Montana area code. And so she like gets on the phone with Ingrid's sister and she has her do like a reference

check online for this phone number. And it links to a Facebook account. Is this guy the dumbest murderer ever? Anyway, maybe. It links to the Facebook account of a man named John Robert Charlton. Charlton? C-H-A-R-L-T-O-N? Yeah.

Charlton. And so York sends him a text message. She's like, hey, do you know Ingrid Line? Yeah. And she gets this in response. Oh, boy. My name is John. I'm guessing she asked also what his name was. Yeah. And she gets this in response. Oh, boy. My name is John.

I'm guessing she asked also what his name was. Yeah, yeah. I thought she was with her kids today. And Yorga said, when did you last see her? She's not here. Her phone is here. Her driver's license is here. Her purse is here. But phone is here. Her driver's license is here. Her purse is here.

But she is not. Please respond. I've called 911. Yeah. And John responded, 911? What's going on? We went to the Mariners game last night, but we didn't stay the night together because she has her kids today. I'm not sure what she's told you about me and our relationship.

And Yorga responded, she's missing. What time did you see her last? Right. A police officer needs to speak to you. You may have been the last person to see her. Please call this number. And she gave him the number of like the officer who was handling. Right.

I'm sure he just didn't waste any time. I'm sure he called that number right away. No. And also he stopped responding to messages at that time. I bet. And so. This would be so horrible. Oh, yeah.

Oh, it would be terrible. And so a little bit of time went by and Yorga sent another text message. She said, can you call me, please? I know your name is John Charlton. So please call me. She's like, listen, I know who you are. I can track you down if I have to. Don't make me.

Man, I like her. Yeah. All right. And again, there was no response from John. So Yorga sent another text message. She said, please, John, did Ingrid say anything about someone coming to see her after you separated from her last night? We can't find her or her car. As I said, her phone and ID and purse are at her house, but she and her car are gone without a trace.

Any help would be appreciated. We are desperate. She would never just go off and leave her family. Yeah. So Ingrid's family is like beside themselves with worry about where Ingrid could be if something has happened to her and they've reported her missing and they're getting going on a missing persons investigation with the police department. And while all of that is going on in another part of town in Seattle, just a few miles away, a man gets home after being gone like out of town for a few days. His name's Mike Navasio. for a few days. His name's Mike Navasio. He gets home. He's been out of town for a few days

and he's got his like trash bin and his recycling bin that he'd set out before he left or like on the curb. Yeah. And he's going to bring them in

because you know the trash has already been picked up while he was gone. He pulls in his trash container like puts it in the garage or wherever and then he goes to pull

the recycling bin in and he noticed that it's like really heavy. Oh my God. Like there's still stuff in it but not like the recycle like the cardboard and stuff that he'd put in there right because the recycling bin is never heavy exactly and so he flips it open and then like sees that there's stuff in it and so he kind of like tips it into his yard to see what comes out. And in it were three kind of translucent white plastic bags that were almost like packaged around what looked to him to be human remains.

Oh, my gosh. He said the thing that really caught his attention was what looked like painted toenails. Oh. He was interviewed about this on the show, and he, like, chokes up describing it. Can you fucking imagine? No, I cannot.

You go to pull your recycling bin in, and there's a body in it oh no so he calls the police the police come out immediately they call out the medical examiner they open the bags and in them are a human head oh my god a foot an arm with the hand attached, and the lower portion of a leg. These remains were really fresh. There were no signs of decomposition. Oh, my God. Which meant that they were very easily identifiable. Yeah.

They had the head. They knew immediately that these were the remains of a woman who had just been reported missing. Ingrid Line. Did he just put her body parts in random trash cans? Not trash cans. Why recycling bins? Why recycling bins? I would say let's get to it in a minute, but I'm afraid I'm going to forget. And I think that this is really kind of interesting. So there's this theory that, like, because he put them in recycling bins, he wanted to get caught. Because recycling gets put into, like, the big receptacle. They come and collect it, and then it has to be sorted through.

It's not like putting something in the trash, and it just goes to the landfill. It has to be sorted through. It's not like putting something in the trash and it just goes to the landfill. I mean, I think it is probably interesting that he put it in the recycling bin. Or he's just an idiot and didn't know the difference between the recycling bin and the trash bin. Maybe. I don't know. But yeah, there was there's this whole thought by the police that maybe he wanted the reason he put it in recycling bins because he was because he wanted to get caught because all of that stuff ends up being sorted somebody has to go through it all right okay i don't know anyway so they find these remains and over the

next several days more of ingrid's remains were found in different recycling bins throughout the city. A man got a call from his neighbor saying that they'd opened up their recycling bin and there was something in there. And so he went over and it was Ingrid's torso. Oh, my God. Another part of her like a leg. Is it possible that he just wanted to traumatize as many people as possible? I think that's very possible as well. Yeah. A portion of her leg was found at a recycling plant. Made it all the way to the plant and was found in the sorting process. Yeah. Not all of her remains were found, but most of them were. Yeah. Following the discovery of Ingrid's remains, the police got a search warrant for Ingrid's house.

Now they knew that she was dead and a crime had been committed. They went in and searched her house. And inside they found an almost empty box of garbage bags. The bags were identical to the garbage bags that had been found in the various recycling bins. Police also found a pruning saw that was kind of stashed in the bathroom. Oh, yeah, because that's a normal place to keep that. Well, and then in the teeth of the saw was blood and tissue and bits of bone. And so then they, like, disassembled the drain of the bathtub and found blood and tissue in it.

Of course, yeah. During this search, they also found on Ingrid's computer, they found the tickets for the Mariners game on April 8th that John had said they had attended together. And that game was at 7.10 p.m. And so they're like, OK, so this matches that version that they did go to. They did at least have tickets to the Mariners game. And so with all of this information, they brought John in for questioning. That was on April 11th. So two days after Ingrid was reported missing by her mom and ex-husband.

So John is brought in for questioning and he told the police that, yeah, of course, like he knew Ingrid. Yeah, that's not a mystery. They've been dating kind of casually for the last six weeks or so. Six weeks or so? Why did I say it like that? I don't know. I liked it though. You spend much time in Minnesota,

do you? I don't. They had met online through some kind of online dating profile. Nothing says which one. Sorry to hear that. And I want to know so bad. Some app paid a lot of money to keep their name out of this story. Don't you think?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the world may never know which dating service they were using. But they met through an online dating app or dating site. Did he have a criminal record? Oh, we'll get there. Okay.

Like I said, they had been kind of seeing each other pretty casually over the last six weeks or so. He said that he had stayed at her house a couple of times, like stayed the night. stayed at her house a couple of times, like stayed the night. But on that night of the 8th, when they went on the date to the baseball game, he did not spend the night because Ingrid's children were due back the next morning. And she was like, nope, you can't stay here. You can't be here when my kids get here. So gots to go. John said that they had gone to the Mariners game and then they'd gone to a bar afterwards and then they'd come back to Ingrid's house at some point. But it was all pretty fuzzy to him because he'd been very drunk. How drunk?

Really, really drunk. So much so that he couldn't actually remember how they got back to Ingrid's house. Maybe they'd taken a bus. Maybe they'd taken a cab. Maybe they'd driven Ingrid's car. How much had he had to drink? A lot. OK, but I want numbers like what was he drinking?

Well, what he told the police was that he had been highly intoxicated and that he had a drinking problem. Oh, wow. Yeah. OK. least was that he had been highly intoxicated and that he had a drinking problem oh wow yeah okay so he says at some point he ended up back in seattle he assumes that ingrid must have driven them there but he can't remember and they're like okay so this is all super convenient that he can't remember yeah and they're like okay so where'd you go when you got back to Seattle? And he said, well, you know, I don't really know. I would have to say probably I came back to the sidewalk because that's where I woke up the next morning. Come on. And they're like, what? You came back to the sidewalk? Well, and that's

when he told them that he didn't have a place to live. He was currently living on the streets of Seattle. What? Uh-huh. That's right. Who paid for the Mariners game tickets? I assume Ingrid. Who paid for the Mariners game tickets? I assume Ingrid. Well, and if he's getting super drunk at a stadium, I mean, that's. Yeah. You got to have some serious money. Yep.

Okay. He did say that Ingrid was acting pretty weird that night. Oh, like when you murdered her? But he was pretty sure they had sex. Give me a fucking break. But he couldn't fully remember because, again, he was super intoxicated. Yeah. Okay. He told the police that he didn't think that Ingrid was meeting anybody later that night.

How would he know if he's this drunk? Exactly. Exactly. You don't know shit. He did also, in addition to saying that he had a drinking problem he did tell them that he was not a quote normal person what does that mean i have no idea okay they're like okay great at some point during the course of this interrogation, though, John did ask for a lawyer.

And at that point, the police were like, all right, all right, well, we'll let you contact a lawyer. And they left the interrogation room and John stayed in there and the camera, little camera kept on rolling. And John rolled up his sweatshirt and used it as a pillow and took a nap on the floor. Okay. So then they decided to look into John Robert Charlton's previous history, see if he had any, you know, prior convictions or anything like that. It turns out he did have a bit of a lengthy criminal history. He was convicted in 2009 of felony theft in Montana. He was convicted of negligent driving in Washington in 1998. He was convicted of second degree aggravated robbery in Utah in 2006. second-degree aggravated robbery in Utah in 2006, and he was charged with battery in Idaho in 2009.

Okay. But that wasn't all. What? There was also an incident with his parents. In 2006, John's parents, Ray and Joanne Charlton, filed for a temporary protection order against John, saying that they feared for their safety because he had drunken outbursts. In the filing, they said John told them, quote, life was putting too much pressure on him, unquote, and that he felt he was becoming mentally unstable. There was an incident that was outlined in the filing as well, where John maybe was trying to start a fight with his parents. It was on March 2nd, 2006. He was really intoxicated. He was in their home in Washington, and he acted in a physically threatening and verbally violent manner towards both his parents. The whole incident lasted a

couple of hours. And during that time, at some point, John went over to like where they kept their DVDs in the house and pulled out the movie Hannibal about Hannibal Lecter. Yeah. And like set it on the table in front of his mom and said that she should watch it and beware. Ooh. Yeah. She should watch it and beware. Ooh. Yeah.

The court filing went on to say that John's parents believed that he was using cocaine and alcohol in excess. And it also stated that John, quote, has been known to hold grudges for several years and exposes frustrations when under the influence of alcohol or drugs. These frustrations, he displays, can be very intimidating and cause fear of violence. This is super scary. Yeah. This is from his parents. They did eventually ask the court to dismiss the petition. Right. So nothing ever moved forward with that.

But, I mean, clearly there's a history of violent behavior with this guy. Yeah. So police started looking into maybe who had an interaction with him more recently, closer to when Ingrid went missing. And they spoke to one of John's ex-girlfriends. So this is someone that he was still having like a sexual relationship with, even though their like technical relationship had ended. They'd broken up. But occasionally she would let him come sleep on her couch and they'd have sex or whatever. And she said that he had a drinking problem and that he was a mean drunk, but that he'd never been physical with her.

Hmm. She said that at some point she had been scared of him during an interaction where he had been drunk and she'd said, you can't stay at my house anymore. And so he'd spent some time at a homeless shelter in Seattle. And then he had come back a few times to her house. She was letting him store some stuff there when he was homeless. And so every now and again, he'd come in. It was over about a year long period. And in March, she learned from John that he'd started dating Ingrid. They'd met online, but that it seemed like it was pretty casual. and that he had what looked like a black eye and some scratches on his face. And he said that he'd been robbed and all his money had been taken,

but she noticed that he still had his wallet. Yeah. When they had John in custody for that interrogation, when they brought him in two days after Ingrid was found murdered. They had taken some pictures of his body and they found yeah, there was an abrasion on his forehead. There were some scratches on his chest. There was an injury to his left hand. He had

injuries to his lip and chin and he told the same story. Like part of the time he was like, I don't really know what happened. You know, I have a drinking problem. I don't remember anything. And then another time he said, yeah, I don't really know what happened. You know, I have a drinking problem. I don't remember anything. And then another time he said, yeah, I got robbed. Yeah. Police did eventually find Ingrid's car in downtown Seattle, right like around the corner from where John said Ingrid had dropped him off for his nightly night's sleep on the sidewalk.

Yeah. This will shock you, Kristen, but just a couple days after Ingrid was reported missing, John was arrested and charged with premeditated first degree murder and theft of a motor vehicle. Well, okay, but why? Because he murdered her. Yeah, this is terrible. The case was pretty circumstantial.

There wasn't any physical evidence tying John to the crime and he pled not guilty. Cool. Mm-hmm. And the prosecutor said that he felt like this was a tough case. The prosecutor in the case was Dan Satterberg and he said, you know, we can't explain everything in this case. Yeah. We may never understand why she was killed, but the police and the prosecutors working on this case have done a tremendous job of piecing together a solid case against the person we believe to be responsible for her death.

But they were worried about how this would sound to a jury without being able to provide some kind of motive. And it's not required of a prosecution, but a jury likes a story. Yeah. They like to know why. And there was no why in this case other than this guy is. I think there's no why in a lot of cases. Oh, absolutely. Especially cases where some guy just decides to murder people.

Yeah. Yeah. The defense by contrast said that there was no forensic evidence that linked any person to Ingrid's murder. Least of all, John, well, John Robert Charlton,

not least of all, at least of all. No, that's just not true. The defense said, what stands out to us is the lack of evidence connecting Mr. Not least of all. Least of all. No, that's just not true. The defense said, what stands out to us is the lack of evidence connecting Mr. Charlton to these acts. We ask that the community not jump to conclusions during this tragedy. I mean, it is troubling.

I mean, so they've got nothing. Do they have his fingerprints on the weapon? They did have his fingerprints on Ingrid's door handle to her car. Oh, but that doesn't mean anything. No, that's not very strong. No. That's like the only physical evidence they have against him. Well, shit. Yep.

Well, shit. Yep. And John was sticking to his story that he had no idea what happened to Ingrid the night after the baseball game. He was too drunk to remember anything. But he was sure she'd driven him back to the city and he'd slept on the street that night. And later that day he had signs on his body that he'd been in a fight. So to me, that's evidence of something. Absolutely.

Yeah. The prosecution worked a year putting this case together, a little over a year as it moved toward trial. And the trial was scheduled to begin in October of 2017. But just days before it started, John withdrew his not guilty plea and pled guilty to all charges. Really? Yes. Wait, he didn't get offered a deal. No, he just pled guilty.

Wow. That's astonishing. I agree. Okay. So there might be, this was confusing to me. There might be something about sentencing here that resulted in him changing his plea without a plea deal. So initially, all of the articles when he is arrested and the maximum sentence he's facing is 28 years. So I'm wondering if sentencing guidelines in the state of Washington are different based on if you're found guilty or plead guilty. OK, well, that has to be that would make more sense. Yes. Some incentive. Yes. Yes. OK. In October of 2017, John pleads guilty. And at that time, the prosecution lays out basically their theory. They said that John had murdered Ingrid inside her home. So when they did an autopsy on the remains that were found, there was petechial hemorrhaging in her eyes and there was a lot of damage to her neck, bruising on her neck. They believe that he strangled her to death, then put her in her bathtub and dismembered her.

They eventually went back to her house and like completely took the tub out and followed the piping down further in her home and found blood and tissue further into the drain. Yeah. But that part's not really up for debate. No, exactly. Exactly. They said then he wrapped her body very meticulously. Like the guy that found her first remains said they were wrapped professionally. Ew. That is so alarming to me. Does that mean this is not the first time this guy has done this? Well, no, it means it's not the first time he's wrapped a package.

Right? I don't know. Well, how do you professionally wrap a torso? Well, I was thinking more like a butcher, not like a present. I don't think they have bows on them. Stop it. I thought you meant like packaged professionally. No, I mean, it's just they weren't in boxes or anything. They were wrapped in plastic

this is gross and i hate you for telling me you're welcome yeah so that that was the theory that he he'd strangled her to death dismembered her in her bathtub wrapped her body parts in the plastic bags from her own home and then dumped them in recycling containers around the city. Oh, yikes. And there was some talk about why he had done the recycling containers like we talked about before. Like, why that? Like, that is for sure.

That's not going to a landfill. Somebody has to process the recycling. Those remains will be discovered. Did he want to get caught? He wanted to maximize trauma. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I think it's very likely. He may not have wanted to get caught, but I think he wanted to maximize the trauma. Yeah. In January of 2018, John was back in court for his sentencing and Ingrid's loved ones made victim impact statements. Phil Line, Ingrid's ex-husband, said,

The defendant took something that weekend that didn't belong to him. He took a friend, a niece, a cousin, an auntie, a sister, a daughter, and a mother. a daughter, and a mother. He talked about how their daughters would miss their mother at all of their events throughout the rest of their life, at ballet recitals, at soccer games, and at holidays. He said, there's no more motherly advice from Ingrid. There will be no mother of the bride. There will be no maternal grandmother the bride. There will be no maternal grandmother for our children's children. Yeah. At this point, the family knew that he was now only facing 29 years in prison, which we would be like 60 years old when he got out, just over 60.

And he finished his victim impact statement by saying, when he walks, Ingrid won't. Ingrid's friend Nancy talked about Ingrid's vibrant spirit. She said, Ingrid wasn't just murdered. Her body was brutally violated and discarded like she was nothing. She fought to live and you forced her to die. You smothered her laugh. And then she referenced all of the friends and family who were there that day in support of Ingrid's memory. Killed her physical body, but not her energy, not her soul or her light. Ingrid is here, represented by those who love her. Yeah. John was sentenced to the maximum 27 and three quarters years in prison.

The judge said that was the maximum she could give him under the state's sentencing guidelines. So something that's interesting about Washington's sentencing guidelines. So even though John had prior convictions because they were in other states, his violent convictions could not be used. Lord almighty, that is so stupid. No. Yeah. So she said, I wish I could sentence you to life in prison. I think it's what you deserve.

But under sentencing guidelines, I cannot. And she sentenced him to the maximum. Judge Julie Spector said what you did was vicious and cruel beyond anyone's belief. John did make a small statement at his sentencing. He said, I agree there are no words that can alleviate the pain I've caused and for that I'm truly sorry.

Alright. Alright. Yeah. I can't believe he's going to get out when he's in his 60s. Ingrid's friends said that she was like just trying online dating as like a way to try and meet people with her super busy schedule like she worked as a nurse she had three daughters and so she just wanted to like meet people to have fun with like

when she had a free weekend or whatever sure and that she'd spent a few nights with John and like nothing had happened. She felt, you know, fine in her decision to see him. And then like seemingly out of nowhere, he brutally murdered her. Yeah. I don't know. To me, like that's the scary part. He didn't do it the night, like, the first night he met her. Like, they went on several dates.

He spent the night at her house a couple times. And then he did this. I mean, it's all scary, but. I mean, isn't that the way it usually is? I don't. Okay, to me, that's not what I think of when people are like, oh, online dating is really scary. Like, you, they tell you, you know, you meet in a public place. So, yeah, like you meet the person for the first time somewhere public.

And then you think you're good. They didn't murder me that time. We're good. Yeah, but we're at the most risk with the people who know us best. I mean, you're absolutely right. I think this is just so, I mean, so, so scary. I feel so terrible for Ingrid's daughters and her family. And, yeah, her daughters are like 6, 8, and 10 or something like that when this happened.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's the story of online dating. Man. I know. I actually perked up when you read your intro. I was like, online dating, maybe this will be kooky. No, just terrible. Thanks a lot. You're welcome. All right. I cannot imagine going to pull your

fucking recycling bin in, being like, oh, what's in there? That's weird that there's something in there. And then there being body parts in it. Well, I keep thinking about the fact that her leg wound up at a recycling center. That means someone had a body part in their recycling and has no idea. Yeah. Which, I mean, yeah, I wouldn't want to know. No. But that is just wild. Yeah.

Sorry. I don't think you are. You know what I think we ought to do now? Take some questions from the Discord? Yes, but how do they get into this Discord? To get into this Discord, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. It'll get you in here to chitty chat the day away with other listeners and us and our moms are in there

sometimes. It's true. Yeah. And it's a good time. And then when we record we ask questions. We ask four questions. We don't ask questions. Anyway. We'll ask the questions. Sarah Love Stars wants to know what's a funny

but useful white elephant Christmas gift? A squatty potty. I was about to say a squatty potty. You're welcome. Yeah, that's the answer. Ooh, Snowfeather wants to know, best food you ate at Thanksgiving? Ooh. Okay.

Okay. This is going to sound ridiculous, but what can we do? My sister-in-law made apple dumplings. She did them using apples and crescent rolls and Mountain Dew. Mountain Dew? It acted as a syrup. What? It was fucking amazing. She has yet to send me the recipe. And I'm not okay with it. Apparently it was super easy to do. It was delicious. I was on board until the Mountain Dew.

That sounds weird. But I could see it acting as a syrup. No, of course it sounds weird. Okay. It sounds very weird. But, you know, you throw in the Mountain Dew, then put the whole thing in the oven. Yeah. Bubbles on down.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. I bet that was delicious. It was amazing. My favorite is the same every year, sweet potato souffle. It's sweet potatoes that it's just dessert.

It's so good. No, it sounds amazing. Ew. What? Fireball Front Yard Throw Up asks, how much gravy did Brandy eat this Thanksgiving? Zero, none. Why are you like this?

I don't like gravy. So many things she doesn't like. Oh, I think this is interesting. Shea LaFornia wants to know, Kristen, what's your idea of the perfect environment to write? Hmm. Okay, that's tough. Because it probably varies, right? Yeah, it varies. So sometimes I find it helpful to go to a coffee shop because I feel ashamed about going and spending $4 and not actually doing anything. Also, there are people around.

So it's like, well, I better get to work. But, yeah, I don't know. I like it to be pretty quiet usually too. Writing is hard. Yeah. You have a lot of silent coffee shops around here do you no see that's the thing it's a trade-off yeah you bitch oh no i usually just write alone in my office and feel uh like i'm the best writer in the world.

You are. In my eyes, Kristen. Thank you. Okay, GSizzle89 wants to know, Brandy, I get married next week. Any advice for pre-wedding anxiety? Well, I'm afraid because of the way our recording works that you will already be married by the time this advice comes out. And you're going to give amazing advice.

No, I'm not. I don't have amazing advice. But my advice would be to like just enjoy the day. Like things will probably go wrong and like that will not matter. Be present. Be in the day and enjoy all of it. What if what goes wrong? If it's not done by now, it probably doesn't matter.

What were you going to say? What if what goes wrong... And if it's not done by now, it probably doesn't matter. Hmm. Hmm. What were you going to say? What if the thing that goes wrong is a bomb? Well, that's... Then I guess it would matter, wouldn't it? Well, yeah. Boy, are you wrong. Okay.

About everything. Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials, G-Sizzle. Don't be mad at G-Sizzle. Don't listen to Kristen. Oh, yeah, I guess I was talking about their family getting murdered. Yes, Kristen! Sorry, G-Sizzle. I just, like, I like to shit on it when people give advice, like, everything will be okay.

And I like to come in and say, but what if it won't be okay? Steve Lunny wants to know, Brandy, did you and David keep your vows secret from each other until spoken during the ceremony? Or did you share them ahead of time? So actually, we had intended to keep them secret. We both wrote ours completely separately. But then the night before the wedding, we read our vows to each other. We wanted to have just like a private moment. And so, yeah, the night before the wedding, we exchanged them in the privacy of our bedroom.

And I was laying down in between. But like her feet were up by our heads. Her head was, so it was like she wasn't there. I just washed them. It's fine. Oh my God, I want to know the answer to this so badly. Sapphire Tulip wants to know, Brandy, what's the worst hair situation someone has gone to you with? Spill it.

to you with? Spill it. I would say the hardest situation someone has come to me with was like severe matting due to depression. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they hadn't gotten out of bed for a while, so they weren't washing their hair, weren't properly combing their hair, and it became very matted in the back of their head and she was

embarrassed about it and that would be so hard yeah work up the nerve absolutely absolutely and worried that I was going to have to basically shave her head yeah um but I was able to work most of it out and only cut very minimal amounts of her hair out. It took a really long time. I'm sure. I'm sure was very uncomfortable. Yeah. For the client. Yeah. But in the end, she was so thankful to maintain most of her hair. Yeah.

And was, you know, appreciative that. That you were so sensitive about it. Yeah. And she was like, you know, I've been dreading coming somewhere. I'm sure. And what someone would say about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she was like, you know, I've been dreading coming somewhere and what someone would say to me. And the idea of that, that someone would make somebody feel badly about something like that, that just kills me. Yeah.

But you know what happens. Oh, for sure it happens. For sure it happens. Did I ever tell you that about the time in like, I think it was high school when Kyla sat down in a salon chair and started by saying something like, I think I just need some help with. And the lady goes, oh, I can see that. Right. Yeah. I mean, some people.

Some people. Some people. Yes. So did you know before that person came in that you were going to be dealing with like a matted hair yes they had called yes they had called and asked if it was something we could do yeah and they wanted to make sure we had enough time booked for it and everything yeah yeah i think that must be part of the key there yeah which even that is really difficult to call and have the conversation. Yeah.

It's super difficult and it feels embarrassing. And but like there are things beyond your control and things happen. And yeah, it's nothing to be embarrassed about. Did you just tell her to like look on the bright side? Yeah. I just say I just drowned her in a bunch of toxic positivity. You said, hang on, hang on have you thought about not being depressed yeah you know if you just start every day with a positive outlook and that lady has not been depressed since. Wonderful.

Ooh, Geriatric Sasquatch asked, Brandy, what's your favorite song from the 1975's new album? Well, I think the whole album is really good. But David and I did use In Our Wedding as our recessional. I'm in love with you. And it was wonderful. So I guess that one. Okay okay this is an interesting question hip to be squared wants to know i recently got married too and people have made really weird comments to me did that happen to either of you have people made weird comments to you no i don't think so oh my grandfather did make a comment that really bothered me.

Oh, good. So my grandfather did not come to the wedding. My grandpa's 91. Well, he'll be 91 on Christmas, I think, or maybe he'll be 92. Anyway, my grandpa's in his 90s. Yes. And then my grandma's like 88 and she just like she walks with a walker and there were like a couple of stairs that you had to go up and then like.

It was a whole thing. It was a whole thing. And so they decided not to come. And so at Thanksgiving I was showing this was before I got like my whole gallery back. So I was just showing him the couple of pictures that I had. And I was just like a selfie of me and David that we took at the table. And then I had like one picture of me walking down the aisle with London that David's mom took. And I showed him the picture of David and I, the selfie.

And he goes, that doesn't even look like you. What? And I was like, what? Oh, okay. What does that even mean? I don't know. Huh. Yeah.

Yeah, I know how you took that. Yeah. Like, oh, you look so beautiful. You look nothing like your ugly self today. That's exactly how I took it, Kristen. No, you looked great. And you looked like you. Thank you.

Fuck. Yeah. Grandparents are great. Yeah. Let's see. Comments to me after Norm after we got married, we were at a neighbor's house for like a little block party thing. And a man who I had literally just met asked me when I was going to have kids. Oh, great.

You love that. And I was so taken aback by the question that it honestly didn't occur to me that that's like a ridiculous question to ask someone. Yeah. But luckily, my new neighbor friend, so we became BFFs with. Yeah. She just stepped in. She didn't have kids either. And she was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

That is a totally inappropriate question. Good for her. You know, I think it was one of those things where she had probably been in that situation so many times. Yeah. And she knew exactly how to handle it. Yeah. I was honestly like, like trying to figure out how to have this difficult conversation with this dude I just met. Yeah.

Let's see. Other things. Let's see other things. Oh my grandmother mentioned to me several times how proud she had been to take my grandfather's last name. Oh yes. Hint hint. Yes. Yeah. You feminist. Uh huh. Problem. Feminist problem. Fat Asset says, open bar? Was there fireball? Did you bless the marital suite bathroom? No, there was not a drop of fireball served at my wedding. Which I mentioned on the complaint card.

No, I sampled the beverages at your wedding. I was quite thrilled. We offered an assortment of liquors for people to make their own drinks. Well, not make their own drinks. Order drinks from the bar. It was in a self-serve situation. But then we also offered two signature cocktails. We offered an old-fashioned, which is David's favorite.

Did I put an R in his name? You sure did. And then also a Moscow Mule, which I enjoy greatly. That's not how you say it. Yes, it is. There's no R's in there. Moscow Mule. And then there was also an assortment of beers and wines. But not one drop of fireball.

Because Brandy drank it all. And no, I did not throw up. Thank you. Oh, Snowfeather asks, when will the winter break start? Good question. Or questiony, as we say on this podcast. Am I right? So this is a great time for a friendly reminder that we'll be, wow.

Beep, beep, beep. Beep, beep, beep. Beep, beep, beep. Beep, beep, beep. Beep, beep, beep. Beep, beep, beep. We'll be off for Christmas and then through the month of January. So our last episode before winter break will come out just before Christmas, the 21st of December.

But we continue to put out bonus episodes on Patreon. So if you miss my ass, you know where to find me. Oh, the Plane Shitter wants to know, Kristen, who is your favorite or top three RuPaul's Drag Race queens? Oh, my gosh. I feel like I haven't watched enough to know for sure because it changes all the time. I like everyone. Okay. I like Silky Nutmeg Ganache.

I am obviously a fan of Katya. Obviously. Obviously. Obviously a fan of Trixie Mattel. Oh, my gosh. I really like Mrs. Kasha Davis. Oh, I like Ginger Minj. Oh, I like Eureka.

See, we can't. We can't. We can't handle it. Sarah Loves Stars asks, how would you curse someone with a minor annoyance for the rest of their life? I have the perfect answer for this. Great. Let's hear it. I would make it so that their socks always come off their heel inside their shoe.

And they're just walking around with balled up sock under the base of their foot. No matter how many times they adjust it, it just comes right the fuck back off. I think that's a terrible response. It is? Yeah, because that's more than mildly annoying. Yeah, that's terrible. No, you're doing mildly annoying wrong. Here's mildly annoying.

Oh, okay. Okay, I've got the perfect one. Okay, great. For the rest of their life, every time it's hot out, every single stranger they pass will say, Hot enough for ya? Doesn't that already happen? Not every single stranger. Or I would also do this.

Okay. Every time they're in a store for the rest of their life, when someone sees an item without a price tag on it, they say, I guess it's free. I have to tell you that when I was a cashier, I fucking hated when people would say that. Yeah, of course you did. And you have to live. Yes.

Because otherwise you're a bad whore. That's exactly right. Oh, boy. Those are good ones. Thank you. Yeah. I'm professionally annoying. I do kind of like some of that stuff, though.

Like, okay, so Norma and I were just in Michigan for Thanksgiving. You don't know this. This is news to you. Okay, yeah, I know. I knew you were in Michigan. And I love that the people in Michigan are so friendly. More friendly than here? Yes. Really? Oh, absolutely.

I think people are really friendly here. Yeah, I think so too. I think people are very friendly in Kansas City. I think they're friendlier in Lansing, Michigan. Okay, great. Not when they're trying to kidnap their governor. Obviously, you've got to take breaks from being friendly. But so Norm and I were out to breakfast with his family.

We were getting back in the car. What did you get? I got the chicken fried steak with eggs on the side and hash browns. It was delicious. That sounds delicious. Thank you for asking. Were the hash browns crispy? The hash browns were a little disappointing.

Okay. My mother-in-law tried to warn me. She said home fries were the way to go. But you offer me home fries or hash browns. I'm picking hash browns. Yeah. Yeah. Mistakes were made. Anyway, we went out to the car. We have Missouri plates on our car. This Michigan guy comes walking up. He goes, you sure came a long way for breakfast. And I loved it. And because I'm a good Midwestern gal, you know what I said to him? Totally worth it.

Amazing. I like these interactions. Amazing. What's not to like? What do you think? Should we move on to some Supreme Court inductions? I think we shall. All right.

Let's do it. For this week's inductions, we're reading your names and your first celebrity crush. Ooh, I forgot we changed it for a second. I was about to say cookies. Crushed you. Amanda G. Wait, I'm not even at the right spot. I'm so sorry. I didn't see your little pink

Kristen. You're fudge and roll. Here we go. Amanda G. David Bowie in Labyrinth. Talk about a bulge. Am I right? Calm down. Cody Antisberger. Johnny Depp.

Laurie Mack. James Hetfield from Metallica. Bailey Upton. James Lafferty. He played Nathan Scott on One Tree Hill. Okay. I don't know any of those things. I don't know about trees or hills.

You know all kinds of stuff about trees, Kristen. Damn right. You're ignorant kinds of stuff about trees, Kristen. Damn right. You're ignorant, though. Ellie Godwin. Elijah Wood as Frodo. Catherine. Andrew Garfield. Yeah.

It's not a cat, Kristen. I know it's not a cat. Andrew Garfield's handsome. Wait, are we talking about the former president? No! Who's Andrew Garfield's handsome. Wait, are we talking about the former president? No! Who's Andrew Garfield? That's the... Wait, was the president...

He's Spider-Man! I don't think President Garfield's first name was Andrew. Was it? Oh, it's James A. Yeah. Hang on. Now I've got to. Oh, James Abram.

I was really hoping for James Andrew Garfield. Andrew Garfield? That way I could be like, ha, ha, ha. So I just, you know, I knew it mostly. Oh, shit. All right. So you didn't have a crush on a dead president. Well, that's good.

Erica. Erica. Leo DiCaprio in Titanic. Bowl cut. Alex. Jamie from EastEnders. It's a British soap opera, apparently. Or it's just a British soap.

I don't think she has a crush on soap. Dawn. Harold Ramis. Oh, in the 1984 Ghostbusters. Clarissa Casey. Oliver Phelps. He played George in Harry Potter. Why do you like him better than Fred?

Calm down. Well, they're twins. They're twins. Yeah. Okay. Elise Lee. The Beast from the cartoon Beauty and the Beast. Elise Lee.

The Beast from the cartoon Beauty and the Beast. I think a lot of young girls had a moment with the Beast. Jonathan Castillo. Ricky Martin. Alessia. Daniel Radcliffe in Harry Potter. Abby Link. Squints from Sandlot. Tori. Larry the C Sandlot. Tori.

Larry the Cable Guy. Oh, no. Tori. Tori, that is a first. Trixie Rogers. Romeo DiCaprio. Six-year-old me was a fan of Leonardo and Romeo and Juliet. And that's what I thought his name was

for quite a while I like Romeo DiCaprio Emily Custer Devin Sawa oh yeah Casper welcome to the supreme card thank you everyone for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us. Did I say please find us? Please find us. Forever can. Please find us on social media.

Social media. We're on Facebook. Facebook. Twitter. Instagram. Patreon. Please remember to. Instagram. Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast. Give it a five star.

Wherever you listen. And let me have it over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five star rating and review. Thank you so much. And then be sure to join us next week. We'll be experts on your own podcast. You said your own podcast. Oh, no. Boy, do I feel silly.

Podcast adjourned! And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. I read a bunch of stuff then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. You're not going to stop me from being a journalist. No, I'm just going to keep doing it. I got my info from the article,

Tulia Drug Bust of 1999 by Alex Hunt for the Texas State Historical Association, The Color of Justice by Nate Blakeslee for the Texas Observer, and the documentary Tulia, Texas, Scenes from the Drug War. I got my info from ChillingCrimes.com, an episode of Sex and Murder, People.com, The Seattle Times, SeattlePI.com, and Fox 13 News. Pronounce SeattlePI.com and Fox 13 News. Pronounced C-N-O-P. For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours.

But please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.