Let's Go To Court! - 24: The Charming Kidnappers & the Swope Family Murders (?)

Episode Date: July 11, 2018

This week, we’re covering old timey Kansas City cases. Two brothers entered Henry McElroy’s home in the spring of 1933 with a sinister scheme. They wanted to kidnap Henry’s daughter and hold her for ransom. But they were surprised by what they discovered. Henry’s daughter, Mary, wasn’t a child. She was a full grown woman. And she was pretty darn charming, to boot. Weirdly, she found her captors pretty charming, too. This story is as unpredictable as it is intriguing. Then Kristin tells us about Thomas Swope, who made his fortune buying cheap land in the mid 1800’s, and selling it for a profit as the city grew. In 1896, he donated more than 1,300 acres to be used as Kansas City’s largest park. Toward the end of his life, Thomas toyed with the idea of rewriting his will so that more of his vast fortune would go to charity. But before he could do that, he died. So did his cousin. And later, so did his nephew. In fact, almost everyone in the Swope family became mysteriously ill soon after Thomas’s death. Was someone out to get them? Or did the Swope family just have bad luck? And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Dr. Hyde and Mr. Swope,” kchistory.org “The Mysterious Death of Kansas City’s Thomas Swope,” KCUR.org “Thomas Swope: KC True Crime,” Kansas City Star “The Evil Dr. Hyde of Kansas City,” historicalcrimedetective.com In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The lady and her kidnappers” by Mara Bovsun, New York Daily News “RANSOM MARY McELROY” by Stephen C. Haynes and Richard D. Ralls, Kansas City Star “Mary McElroy, the City Manager’s daughter” by David Arthur Walters “Kidnapped!” KCHistory.org “The abduction of Mary McElroy” by Ted Stillwell, The Examiner  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode I'll talk about a wealthy family who had the worst luck. And I'll be talking about the kidnapping of Mary McElroy. What is up with you and kidnappingsnap i gotta get back on the kidnapping train love the kidnappings taking a break from stabbings uh-huh doing some kidnappings although if i remember right haven't there been some you know that you know if if there was a we've got kidnappings over here, stabbings over here. There has been a small section in the middle where the two overlap.

Yeah, I'm not letting you get away with this. Oh, I just said it to not do a stabbing. Like, no, you did a child stabbing, which is like. Okay, well, let me tell you that in today's episode, there's no stabbings. Nobody's disemboweled nobody's stuffed with rags nobody's eyelids are sewn open okay the eyelids sewn open it's horrible i don't know why of all that but that was the worst it was the worst i agree are you ready i am very ready to hear about an old-y kidnapping. Yes.

Always. Back to the, I told you last week I had to take a little break from the kidnapping, but I would bring it back around. And here we are back in 1933. Hell yes. Okay. Go, go, go. Okay. So I pulled heavily for this episode from an article by Mara Boveson for the New York Daily News and an article by

Stephen C. Haynes and Richard D. Rawls for the Kansas City Star, as well as articles from kchistory.org and The Examiner. We both pulled from KC History this week. Oh, that's funny. Yes. Interesting. So let me tell you one thing. This guy that was one of the writers for the Kansas City Star author, his name is Richard D. Rawls. But my computer wants to correct it to Richard D. Balls, which would be the terrible worst name on the planet. I love it. If only he'd been Richard N.

Mom balls. Dick and balls. We are 12. We are 12. But let's be honest, that's what you tune into this podcast for. That's right. Everybody likes that 12-year-old humor. Listen to 12-year-olds talk about horrible things.

Okay, well, that sounds creepy when you say it that way, Kristen. Okay, it's Saturday, May 27th, 1933. Hedda Christensen was working as a maid at the McElroy home at 57th and Main in Kansas City, Missouri. I love it. Yes, so not that far from where we are right now no around 10 30 a.m the doorbell rang and when heta answered it hold on is the home still standing it is i actually the so the original article that i pulled from listed the exact address that this happened at and so i googled it last night and it's still standing.

It's beautiful. Oh, my God. Amazing. Yes. Can you tell me the address? It is. I think it's 21 something 57th Street. I think I'm 21 West 57th Street.

And it's the one that's kind of like light gray in the street view. If you see that. Ooh. Yeah, it's really, it's a beautiful house. That's very pretty. Yes. Yeah, I know exactly where this is. Okay.

That is very close. Yes. Holy crap. That is so crazy okay okay go on so um around 10 30 a.m the doorbell rang and when Hedda answered it she was greeted by two men who said they had a delivery for the little girl as Hedda unlatched the door to explain to the men that no little girl lived there, one of the men pulled out a sawed-off shotgun and demanded that she let them inside. After forcing their way into the home, the men again asked Hedda where the little girl was, and she blurted out that Mary McElroy the daughter of her employer was upstairs in the bathtub the men climbed the stairs and banged on the bathroom door and told

Mary to come out startled Mary let out a scream and then informed the men that she would not come out until she had been given time to get properly dressed how old was mary ma'am i have not revealed that information yet if you could am i too eager can you keep your fucking pants on i can't i'm so excited that we both did old tiny kansas city ones not planned so she says i'm not coming out until you give me time to dry off and get properly dressed this is someone who has not been kidnapped before. And the men said, okay. They gave her the time.

When the door opened a short time later, they were shocked to see 25-year-old Mary McElroy. They had been expecting a child. Nevertheless, they informed her that they were kidnapping her ushered her to the car had her lay on the floorboard and put a blanket over her as they were leaving the house they told Hedda to wait 15 minutes and then call her boss Mary's father and let him know what had gone on she watched helplessly as they drove off with Mary. Whoa. Mary's father was Henry F. McElroy, city manager of Kansas City, Missouri. His friends called him Judge. At the time of Mary's kidnapping, he was one of the most powerful political figures in Kansas City.

Henry McElroy had moved to Kansas City from Chicago in 1895 at the age of 30. In 1922, he secured an appointment as judge of the Western District of Jackson County Court, which was an administrative position, not a legal one. And in 1926, he was hired as city manager, which was a new position recently approved by voters. hired as city manager, which was a new position recently approved by voters. In his capacity as city manager, he did some pretty notable things for the development of Kansas City. McElroy brought Kansas City the municipal airport, which is the downtown Wheeler Airport, in 1927. He eliminated tolls on two bridges over the Missouri River and enacted a 10-year plan of public improvements that resulted in the construction of a new city hall, the Jackson County Courthouse, the municipal auditorium,

and the paving of the Brush Creek stream bed. Holy shit. Yes. So these are things that are still around. Everyone who's not in Kansas City right now is like, who cares? Yes. But all of those things are still around. Yeah. Mary was born in 1907, and after her mother died in 1920, she took it upon herself to take care of her father. They had an extremely close bond, and Mary continued to live with him into adulthood she accompanied her father to events regularly and spoke proudly about all he was accomplishing for the city yeah mary was described as a tall big boned plain looking woman with large, a wide mouth, but a radiant smile. She was ugly as sin, but man was she happy. Man had smile.

God. I saw a picture of her. She wasn't that bad looking. She was fine. They never are. When you read the descriptions, you're like, oh, this poor thing. Yes. Oh, my.

She was her father's shadow and the apple of his eye. And on that day in 1933, when Henry McElroy received the call from his housekeeper that Mary had been kidnapped, he rushed home to await instructions from the kidnappers as instructed. He rushed home to await instructions from the kidnappers as instructed. After putting Mary in the back of their car, the kidnappers drove west from the plaza, which is a country called Plaza, which is a shopping area not far from here, across the state line and down the Wyandotte-Johnson County line to a farmhouse about two miles north of Shawnee and took Mary to the basement. So the translation here is that they drove from your house to my house.

Could you see those gears going in my head too? Like, oh, okay. Wow. Yeah. That's nuts. It is nuts. Super crazy. super crazy.

So they took Mary to the basement and there she met two more men who chained her left arm to a basement wall and instructed her to write a ransom note with her right hand. And so I think this is interesting and I'm guessing that they're like one of two reasons here. The first would be to prove that Mary was alive.

Yeah. The second is that maybe these men couldn't read and write. Oh. Yeah, maybe. They're criminals in the 20s. So 30s, I guess. Who knows what the real reason is, but they make her write the ransom note. They had other skills.

During her captivity, she was treated with the utmost respect and made. Well, except for chained to the wall. And made as comfortable as possible. They kept the place clean and well lit. They even provided her with a fan and a radio and made sure that the radio was in reach of her to be able to adjust it. And they apologized for having to chain her up. and a radio and made sure that the radio was in reach of her to be able to adjust it. Uh-huh. And they apologized for having to chain her up. What?

Yeah. And soon, all five of them began to laugh and get along. Oh, my God. Mary joked to the men that she would recommend them as kidnappers. Okay. I like her. That's pretty funny. Yes.

And they returned the compliment saying they'd recommend her as a kidnapping victim. Oh, God. This story is so weird. Yes. What? When she was helping them pin the ransom note, and they told her they were demanding $60,000 in ransom. Stop.

Did she recommend more? She laughed and said, I'm worth more than that. What? Yes. Note here, $60,000 in 1933 would be the equivalent of $854,000 today. Yeah, well, I don't care about prices. This is just a free question. No, I do.

And for that calculation, I used that great link that Dustin sent us on Twitter. Yeah, so in what episode was that? Episode 16? 16, yes. Where I had a bunch of figures from an old-timey case, and you were like, I would like the numbers adjusted for inflation.

I was like, sorry, lady. No, we had Angie reach out to us on Facebook and Angie actually did the homework. She did. She did the math for us. And then Dustin reached out on Twitter, was like, here's an inflation calculator. Anyway, we'll see if I used it for this episode. So she laughed at that amount and said, I'm worth more than that. But they kept that amount in the ransom note.

Do you think she was just trying to be fun? I do. Yeah, get him to like her? Yeah, I do. McElroy received the ransom letter by special messenger later that day. It set out the amount of the ransom, instructions not to involve the police or media, and said that a phone call with instructions would follow. When the call came, McElroy told them that he only had $30,000.

And the caller hung up. Okay, first of all. What? No bargaining over the ransom, right? You got to figure out how to get sixty thousand dollars randy you don't get to be super rich by just saying giving into the first offer like when your daughter's life is on the line right well what if she's just some tall big bone thing with a wide mouth and big eyes yeah i agree I agree. What the hell?

So the kidnappers hung up the phone. Yeah. The next morning, the kidnappers called back and they agreed to the discounted ransom. What? Yes. I mean, even that was like the equivalent of $427,000 today.

Well, yeah, it's nothing to sneeze at. But I would think that at that point, you've got the power. You've hung up. Yeah. You're like, OK, we've got your daughter. We've got your daughter. We'll go down to $50,000. There's got to be some negotiation.

You don't just agree. We would be such good kidnappers. We'd be excellent kidnappers the best look out wealthy kansas city people with kids so mcelroy was instructed to drive with the money to a bluff overlooking the kaw river which we call the kansas river yeah but, two men with masks and guns were waiting to take the money. McElroy handed it over and then went home to await his daughter's safe return. The deal was that they were not bringing her there because he could bring police, you know, whatever.

He had to arrive alone. I think he actually took his son with him. But either way, no, no police were supposed to be involved. And the money was supposed to be wrapped in newspaper. And he was just supposed to hand it over. And he followed all of that. OK, and I forget. Did they tell him no police at any time?

And he agreed to that? Yes. OK. I think one article that I read said that he did get police involvement, but made them stay back. Yeah, yeah. Like, we're going to record the serial numbers of the ransom and all of that. Yeah. But we're not going to get involved in the handoff.

You go alone. We don't want to risk her life. You know, whatever. OK. Yeah. So they were somewhat involved, but they were not present at the handoff. A few hours after the handoff, Mary stepped out of a car at the Milburn Country Club in Overland Park. So this country club is still there. It's like in Old Town Overland Park.

It actually like burned to the ground in 2010. Huge fire. You could see the smoke like all over the city. And they rebuilt it and reopened in 2013 but it's been around since like i don't know like 1911 or 1913 or something like that wait i have another question yes the place that they took her where they changed her to the basement yes that place still standing so i tried so hard to find out where that was. I couldn't find an address for it. Brandi, it was your house. I know.

Well, my house was built in 2004. Let's keep dreaming. So she's dropped off at this country club in Overland Park. A bandana was wrapped loosely around her eyes, and she held two roses in her hands, a gift from her captors. What? As the car drove away, she pulled off the blindfold and turned to wave. Yeah.

Reportedly, like when she was reunited with her father, she was like, Daddy, they gave me roses. No. Yes. What? Yes. Yeah. Yes. What?

Yes. Yeah. I am guessing that this was an old maid in this day and age who had not received a lot of positive attention from men. Okay. I am glad you're going down this road. I am glad you're going down this road. Because my first thought when you said her first thing to her dad was they gave me roses was girlfriend was horny. Right?

Right. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So she's reunited with her family and there was rejoicing around the city as she stood on her front lawn and gave interviews to the media. Oh, my. hugged and kissed her. And she cried and laughed. I'm glad I was kidnapped because she loved the attention she was getting. Oh my. When Judge McElroy finally was restored to strength from the whole thing, even to jocularity. So I kept this in here

because I pulled it from an article that was written in 1933 and I've never heard that word in my life. It means that he was in a joking mood. Okay. Somebody asked him whether he would consider his money well spent. And he said, considering that I had to pay it to get Mary back, I would say yes. If it had been a matter of investing it, I think I could have done much better. Mary wore the roses given to her by her kidnappers in the lapel of her brown suit when she met with reporters.

Oh my. Composed and calm, she said that she had been treated with kindness. True, four men had snatched her from her bath threatened to shoot her drove her to an abandoned building and chained her to the wall in a musty cellar for 29 hours but otherwise she insisted they acted like perfect gentlemen and she cited the fact that they had allowed her to get dressed and even put on her makeup and everything before they kidnapped her and that um when they had gotten to the cellar they asked her to undress to prove that she didn't have any weapons or anything on her and she refused and they said okay wow yeah well know, that sounds pretty gentlemanly. It does sound pretty gentlemanly.

And I gotta say, it would go a long way for me if someone was like, okay, you can put on the eyeliner and mascara before you leave the house. That's absolutely right. Her father and law enforcement officers were less sympathetic. Her father said bluntlyly we'll get those birds and county prosecutor aj mastin added that he would not only get them but that he'd seek the death penalty um another question yes did they wear masks the whole time or they so they wore masks when they took her from the home they had like bandanas right over their faces and they wore masks when they met to take the ransom okay um but she saw

them without masks on mary did when they were in the cellar oh my god okay so within days, the first suspect was in custody. Walter McGee, 37, was a truck driver and former convict from Oregon. And he was picked up in Amarillo, Texas, carrying $9,000 in bills with serial numbers that matched those of the ransom money. Man, he got pretty far. He did get pretty far. Under interrogation in Kansas City, McGee first denied everything. But a few hours into the questioning,

police brought in Henry McElroy, who recognized him as the man who had taken the ransom. We've met before, said McElroy. Ooh. McGee stood up, shook shook his hand and broke down i want to tell everything i just want to get it over with he said they'd been planning the kidnapping for a month they hatched the plan one night when mcgee his brother george and two other accomplices clarence Stevens and Clarence Click a lot of

Clarences back in those days I guess and that name sucks it's a terrible name I wonder what name from our current time people will look back on and be like that's a yeah I don't know probably Kristen shut it I would say Brandy but but you know, that's not common enough. It's not common enough. Kristen, on the other hand, possibly. That's right. Yeah, so the four of them were drinking in a bar. And talk turned to recent kidnappings because kidnapping for ransom was like the thing to do during the 20s and 30s.

The thing to do during the 20s and 30s. Although in most of the cases that came to their minds, the kidnappers were caught. Yeah. The idea of kidnapping for ransom seemed like a good way to make a quick buck. Okay. And so since Henry McElroy was such a public figure in Kansas City and they knew he had a daughter. Wait, they planned this for a month and they didn't bother to figure out like how old the daughter they just picked her as their target without actually knowing who she was well you know okay in their defense you just want the money that's right it's not like they

could google her this is true true. It's 1933. Are you on their side too? Did they give you a rose? They gave me two roses. I have them here in my lapel. I don't get a lot of attention at home. McElroy said, no, I'm sorry. McGee said, we never meant to hurt her. We just wanted an easy payoff.

Sure. And they didn't hurt her. Yeah. I mean, I imagine that that has to, at some point she had to be scared. Yeah. And so there is some sort of trauma that happened there. But physically, they didn't hurt her. And she seemed like she was in good spirits.

Seemed like she was even better emotional. I know. Not long after Walter McGee's confession police tracked down and arrested George McGee and Clarence Click it was Clarence's um farmhouse that they took okay Mary to in my neighborhood apparently um Clarence Stevens the fourth kidnapper was never found never whoa yes um i looked him up because i like it um the article i read something like that he hadn't yet been found or something like that so i tried to see if there was anything else about him. I'm like, what about now? I found a Reddit forum, like a Reddit thread of a guy who's related to him and was like, does anybody have any information about him?

He disappeared after this crime and no one's ever heard anything. How would I go about finding information? Yeah. He's never been found. Amazing. Yes. Yes. You think he just like changed his name yeah someplace else and has a whole other family and yeah because he had the reddit um post said that i believe it was like this the posters like grandmother's brother uh-huh and he had children

and now has living grandchildren and all kinds of stuff. And he just disappeared off the face of the planet. Oh, my God. Yeah, I think he totally changed his name and has some other family. Yes. I mean, he's dead now. Well, sure. But I mean, like, the idea that somebody's grandpa, great grandpa out there. Oh, my God.

Yeah. This is crazy. Prosecutors pegged Walter McGee as the ringleader and sought the death penalty against him. At his trial in July of 1933, against her wishes, Mary testified that Walter was the man who snatched her from her bath two months earlier. They made her testify. She did not want to and her dad basically was like you don't have a choice you have to testify well and you can be compelled to test yeah absolutely and so okay but i don't think he should get the death penalty i don't either well first of all

i'm anti-death penalty but i mean yeah come on. There was no suspense over the verdict by his own admission and testimony of the victim. McGee was clearly guilty. Yeah, yeah. But the sentence was a shock. Oh, no. Death by hanging. No. Yep.

Oh. Yep. Eager to send a message in order to reduce the number of kidnappings throughout the country, the DA had pressed for the ultimate penalty. McGee's punishment put him in the history books. He was the first kidnapper to be sentenced to death in the United States. Okay, I get the point about wanting to send a message. But of all the cases where you would send a message.

Walter was stunned by the sentence. I don't see why anyone should be hanged for a thing like that, he said. And apparently McGee's opinion was shared by his victim. Horrified that her testimony could send a man to his death, she was plagued by nightmares and spent months at a time in hospitals being treated for stress and depression. So the sentencing was more traumatic than the kidnapping. Yes.

Oh, my gosh. Because she had really just grown close to these kidnappers. And yeah, she didn't feel terrorized by them. Oh my God. When she was up and about, she frequently visited her kidnappers in jail. Wow. Yeah. And then in February of 1935, Mary hopped on a bus with 20 cents and a pack of cigarettes

and disappeared for a while until she was spotted in illinois and brought back home oh my gosh kansas city star reporter conwell carlson interviewed her after her return and she said she just had to get away from the city where she was seen as the city manager's kidnapped daughter and she said she was still suffering from nightmares about her kidnappers fate i cannot forget them she said i cannot get away from feeling for the underdog yeah after mcgee had exhausted all legal avenues of appeal, Mary picked up the torch. Oh, my God. Mary set to work on her powerful father to get the death sentence commuted by the governor of Missouri. Yes.

She wasn't a political activist, but she was on the side of the sick and oppressed. She felt that help should come from individuals by means of personal kindness she had no political reservations about the legal system and she wasn't actually against the death penalty in general she just felt in this case the punishment did not match the crime i i understand that yes she'd been kidnapped but she'd only been held for 29 hours she was treated well and she was unharmed her father was opposed to her trying to get this sentence commuted but eventually he caved and they went to see the governor in jefferson city in her plea for clemency, Mary wrote,

In pleading for Walter McGee's life, I am pleading for my own peace of mind. Through punishing a guilty man, his victim will be made to suffer equally. He would even have this advantage. He would not have to think about his execution afterwards. I do not forget the suffering this has brought in many ways to many people. Walter McGee's death will not erase or ease that suffering, though. Rather, I believe the mercy shown to him and the feeling of warmth and hope any act of mercy brings will serve as a balm to all.

I think it's a pretty good argument. Yeah. That this will be devastating to me, his victim. Yes, absolutely. And that he will be dead. He won't have to live with the ramifications of his execution.

I will the rest of my life. Yeah. Her words did the trick and the governor commuted his sentence wow of course under pressure from her father but i thought the father didn't want he no he finally caved and was like that's fine if this is what you really want if this is really gonna make you better okay because she was so depressed and in and out of hospitals and make you better okay because she was so depressed and in and out of hospitals and he's like fine i will take you there we'll argue to the governor yeah i'll make it happen okay and he did and though mary had gotten what she was fighting for her life didn't get any easier she now became

the target of ridicule from people who believe that Walter deserved to die for his crime. Mary tried to rise above this by promising to help Walter make something of his life. She believed that he would eventually get paroled, and she wanted to work with him while he was in prison to get educated and, you know, be able to do something when he was eventually released. But her plans were cut short by another shock in april of 1939 her father the man who had fiercely protected her since the kidnapping was accused of being a crook on a scale grander than mcgee could even imagine what he was indicted as the genius behind a wildly corrupt political machine in kansas city he was accused of taking bribes he was accused of extortion he was accused of having

ties to the mafia which i didn't know this but organized crime in the 30s in kansas city was second only to chicago it was huge. Well, Tom Pendergast. Yeah. I totally mispronounced that last name. Pendergast. Thank you. He was believed to be Pendergast's number one. McElroy was.

What? Yes. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Yep. All of those city projects that he did required large amounts of concrete that were purchased from Pendergast Company. Oh, my God. So all these things that we enjoy in Kansas City.

Yep. Wow. Which, I mean, I knew Kansas City was pretty shady back in the day, but that is, whoa. Yes. Okay, continue. Yeah. So he was to appear before a federal grand jury probing his personal finances and the finances of the city. But he never made it.

He died of a heart attack a day before the hearing on September 15th, 1939. There's no way that guy died of a fucking heart attack. No, Tom's boys got to him. Oh, yeah, for sure. Whoa. It was too much for Mary to handle. Oh, no. And on January 21st, 1940, Mary took her own life.

Ugh. She left a suicide note that read, My four kidnappers are probably the only people on earth who don't consider me an utter fool. You have your death penalty now, so please give them a chance. You have your death penalty now. Yup.

Yeah. Clarence Click served his time You have your death penalty now. Yep. Whoa. Yeah. Clarence Click served his time and was released. And George McGee was paroled in 1947. Walter McGee, who was to become eligible for parole in 1951, died of a heart attack at age 44 in the prison infirmary in 1949. Wow. And that's the story of Mary McElroy. I think it's so fucking crazy.

I think it like just reads like a movie. I want you to write a novel about this. I want you to fill in the gaps. Okay, very good. I will. I want a dramatized version. I think it is crazy. You know what?

It's one of those stories that you're like, how have I lived here? And not heard of this! Yes! That is nuts! Yes. Totally nuts. That is so sad and so crazy. It is.

And so complicated. Yes. And I love that one of the guys got away with it. Yes! Clarence Stevens just was off living the high life. So they recovered $16,000 of the ransom. So that means he probably had the other $14,000. Well, sure.

And adjusted for inflation. Yeah, that'd be definitely enough to get away. It'd be roughly $400, get away roughly four hundred thousand dollars adjusted for inflation don't show off god that's incredible it's nuts no it'd be roughly two hundred thousand dollars adjusted for inflation thank you sorry correction that that was nuts wasn't that nuts yes yes how have we never heard of this i don't know but um i'm covering a kansas city story too uh-huh that i think is also nuts that i didn't know about oh my gosh i'm so excited this is the kansas city we've had a lot of kansas city episodes but we've

never planned it no it's never planned we always just like get together and yeah like i have a local one i'm like well shit so if you're not from kansas city and you're still listening thank you thank you it's a lovely town tell me that story is not crazy even if you're not from kansas oh yeah it absolutely is okay thank you i think the things where we'll we'll lose people is when we're like, 57th and Main. No way. Well, we gave the address. They can Google it and pretend they're there with us. Can you imagine if you were in one of these houses and you had no idea? Yeah. So in the Google Street View of that house, there is one picture when you like arrow down and you're kind of on the neighbor's house, but you can still see this house.

There's people walking out of the front door. i'm like i wonder if they know don't you want to go to their house i do i want to knock on the door i want the little girl and if they get it and if the police show up and tackle you it was worth the risk they come and tackle you from the side and you're like rolling okay here we go i'm so excited i'm gonna tell you about a man who whose name almost everyone in kansas city has heard of but whose life story we've pretty much forgotten. Excellent. Thomas Swope. Oh, yeah. How do you know it?

Swope Park. There you go. Okay, very good, Brandy. So the reason people know Thomas Swope is because in 1896, he donated 1,300 acres of land to be used as a public park. It's the biggest park in the city. It's great. there's this big beautiful memorial to him it holds the zoo the zoo's there the starlight theater it's a soccer

complex blah blah blah blah on the day Swope Park opened 18,000 people showed up to celebrate yes yes and apparently it wasn't super easy to get there. But they showed up. And of course, Thomas had the opportunity to like, ride in in a big fashion and give a big speech. But that just wasn't his style. He just kind of hung out in the crowd, let other people do the speeches. He was just kind of this humble, very quiet, very reserved guy. humble, very quiet, very reserved guy. So let's talk a little bit about his life. He was born in 1827, went to Yale, moved to a bunch of different places as a young man. But when he was 30, he settled in Kansas City. At the time, Kansas City was minuscule. And he bought up a ton of land, super cheap. Then Kansas City grew, railroad, blah, blah, blah.

And eventually he became the biggest individual landowner in Kansas City. So that's how he made his money. Yeah. As for his personal life, he was generous, a little eccentric, never married, super shy. Uh-huh. But he was... Did he love his mother? Never married.

Super shy. Uh-huh. But he was. Did he love his mother? See, when they say never married, I'm like, okay, was he gay? I don't know. You know, I just wonder. I like that that's where your mind goes.

And mine's like he was obsessed with his mother, wasn't he? See, I just like to think he was gay. You know? All right. One of the two. There's no evidence either way, though, that I've dug up. He was sort of, celebrity's not the right word. Yeah.

But people knew him because, you know, he donated Swope Park. Everybody thought that was really cool. And he was this, he was one of the wealthiest people in Kansas City, but he rode the street car to work every day. Oh, wow. So, you know, he could have owned a car, but he was frugal, so people just thought that was kind of neat. Yeah. He lived in hotels

most of his life in downtown Kansas City, but then when he was in his 70s, he moved into his brother's 26-room mansion in Independence. Pause. Yes. Somebody's at your door. I don't know if it's your husband or a delivery person. Pause. Yes. Somebody's at your door. I don't know if it's your husband or a delivery person. It's the mailman.

Oh, okay. It's your super hot mailman. It is. You know what? I was about to say it's my hot mailman. But I didn't. Ladies and gentlemen. Kristen has a super hot mailman.

It's true. I just want to back up for one second and say that um your description of mr swope here how he you know had money for a car but drove rode the uh street street car to work because he was frugal it reminds me a bit of your dad because you guys lived in this beautiful house when we were growing up. And he drove this, like, busted up Camry. My dad is amazingly cheap. He makes decisions on what to spend money on. He likes a nice house.

He likes a really nice house. Yes. Will drive a shoebox on wheels to work. Yeah, he drove. And so we were, I mean, all the way through high school. He drove a 91 Toyota Camry that smelled like old soup. And we called it the Dinkmobile. Yes, the Dinkmobile. I remember what we called it.

We called it the Dinkmobile. Yes, the Dinkmobile. I'm trying to remember what we called it. I just imagine the neighbors and the neighborhood that you guys lived in just looking at that thing. Oh, you know they did. You know they did. What other cheap stories? To this day, he buys the Costco Kirk kirkland signature tennis shoes which are bright white they can't be 15 and man he rocks those yeah it's a look his signature look they should

be called the daryl pitt signature they might as well be because he's the only one who wears them. Okay, back to the, back to Mr. Swope here. My dad gets talked about a lot on this podcast. He does get talked about a lot on this podcast. For someone who has a lot of critiques

about the length of our podcast. Oh, he gave me notes the other day. I was going to tell you this off the podcast, but I'll tell you this now. So he and my mom just got back from a trip and they listened to the podcast.

You know, they were like, oh, it was so fun. You know, Tanda's great. But then my dad was like, you know, when Brandy's laughing, I noticed that it's always even better if you can come in with an extra little quip to make it even funnier. Otherwise, it's just her laughing. It's like... Yeah, I mean, I guess I don't always have the option of a...

I know, like, you can't just make that happen. Hey, have you thought about being funny? Right. Oh, God. Oh, podcast you thought about being funny? Right. Oh, God. Oh, podcast notes from Daryl. Yeah.

Note number one, be funny. Yes. If things stop being funny, just be funny. Be funnier. Yes. And don't spend money on a brand new car. That's right. I have internalized that lesson. Yes. Because, like my father, I drive a brand new car that's right i have internalized that lesson yes because like my

father i drive a really shitty car okay so back to the story yes i feel like we have to have like a corner every couple of podcasts yes do some daryl pitts riff yes the daryl Pitts corner. So Thomas Swope moves into the 26-room mansion in Independence. And like you, I had to Google it. It was amazing. It was beautiful. It had a turret, which I'm a sucker for a turret. I know. You used to live in a house with a turret.

Oh, those were the days. It was beautiful. Then it got donated to a church and they tore it down and now it's like dumb that's ridiculous church is man man you and i both have an appreciation for old architecture yes we do we really do it made me so mad because i was like there are a lot of old places in independence missouri where you can tour them yeah and i was like oh my god we let's go there we can go uh no we can't we can go stand where this beautiful place used to be bullshit okay so i gotta get over that i i can just imagine us going there and we would have both been like,

look at the woodwork. Because we look at real estate together online all the time. And we're like, oh, the original woodwork. Oh, they didn't paint a thing. Look at that mantle. Do you think that's the original tile? I love green subway tile.

Yeah, that's us. We don't even have have to imagine that's exactly what we'd say i'm so mad that they tore it down yes so again he never married didn't have kids yeah but his brother and sister-in-law had a bunch of adult children and i think almost everybody lived in this yeah mansion in. I don't know why I struggled to find that word. Mansion, it's a tough one. You looked at it and you're like, is it man-cyon? Did they live inside a man? That seems expensive. So things are going fine.

But then all of a sudden, Thomas's niece, Frances, starts dating this total D-bag. Oh, no. But he's a total D-bag. Oh, no. But he's a charming D-bag. All right. He's a doctor. Hmm. I'm sorry. Your reaction was like, don't have much respect for those.

I can't stand them. Comes into town with his tonics. No, I was thinking about, I was kind of stuck on the last thing. I was thinking about how often D-bags are charming. Uh-huh. Yeah. It's like they go hand in hand. It is.

Hmm. I've known some D-bags in my day who were very charming. Are you going to talk about them now? I'm not. Damn it, Brandi. Way to hold back. Let me give you a list of names. Can we tag them on Facebook?

Yes. So his name is Dr. Bennett Clark Hyde. And Frances' mom, Maggie, is like, this dude sucks. She's like, Frances, you've heard the rumors about this guy, right? The rumor is that he goes around town dating older

women and borrowing money from them. But when it comes time to return the money, he just he always forgets that part. Oh, yeah. Everyone's like, Francis, he's after the money. Yeah.

We're the Swope family. We've got a ton of money. He wants your money. And she's like, no, he is after my love. Stop it, family. We're in love. The Swope family was like, oh, this is bad. They thought they knew how bad this Dr. Hyde guy was.

But there was a lot they didn't know about him at the time. So I'm going to tell you. Tell us about him. Two little gems about him. Do you see that I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear more about him? I literally am leaned forward. You're perched forward like a little bird. God, that face.

It's just my face. No, it wasn't. You pushed your face way forward. Okay, so they knew about him, like, going after these cougars and getting their money. Yeah. What they didn't know was that for a little while in the late 1800s, he was like an anatomy lecturer at University Medical College in Kansas City.

And weirdly, during that time, when he taught anatomy, there were a ton of grave robbings. Oh! He was digging up bodies? So, at one point, a few guys got caught trying to dig up a body. And when the police questioned them, they were like, yeah, here's the thing. We dig up corpses and then we sell them to Dr. Hyde. Oh, my gosh. So Dr. Hyde was arrested.

And I saw somewhere that it like went to trial, but it just kind of resulted in nothing. So, you know. Yeah. He's charming and a douchebag. Yeah. That's not all. At one point, Dr. Hyde was, I guess, like the on-call doctor for the Kansas City Police Force. At one point, a black woman was arrested and he was called in to treat her.

Okay, it's really hard to figure out what exactly he did to her because i listened to an interview with a local historian who did who has done a lot of great work on this i think his name's monroe dodd but he got kind of cute in the interview and he was like it's so disturbing i don't want to say and it's like oh come on come on we can handle it yeah we're all adults and you're talking about like a really bad dude. But I think based on what he kind of eventually said in the interview was that he sexually mutilated. Oh, God. Yeah, it was bad. It was so bad that the Kansas City Police Department fired him.

Which I'm thinking, OK, this was a wealthy, charming, white dude doctor. Yeah. And a black woman who'd been arrested. And what he did was so bad that they were like, we're firing you. Yeah. Not so bad that they ever pressed charges. I was gonna say, like, I forgot the time for a moment, and I was like, that's all they did!

Yeah. No, no, this was like 1900. Yes. So like I said, those last two stories, the Swopes probably hadn't heard those. But they knew the rumors about him. They knew this guy was probably just after Francis's money. So they tried to stop the marriage. But you can't stop true love.

That's right. Can't stop a cougar. Kristen can tell you all about this. I just want to say, I am 32. Norman is 30. Actually, he'll be 31 in like two weeks. So everybody just shut up! So Francis and Bennett Hyde got married.

You're very defensive about your cougar status. He makes fun of me so much. And I remember one time, I won't say who, but like we were getting dinner with a friend and we were talking about, the friend asked us like how we met or something or like what time, something. Yeah. Yada, yada. At some point I was like, well, I was, I must have been like 24, which would have made you 22.

And the friend was like, oh! Scandal! Scandal! That's hilarious. You would have thought I would have been like, well, that was after all my kids were grown. I was 47. And I saw handsome young Norman on the YouTubes. On the YouTubes.

I must have him. No, everybody calm down. I'm like a year and a half older. So Francis and Bennett Hyde get married. Yes. Almost immediately, like days after they were married, some woman comes forward who he'd conned in the past, and she was like, I'm going to sue you now.

Something like breach of promise. They settle out of court. I suspect that he got caught with that the same way that Cassie Chadwick got caught, of like the wedding announcement is in the paper. All of a sudden this woman who he's conned is like, oh, he lives there now? And he's married to a Swope? Okay, gotcha. So for their first year of marriage, the Swope family didn't talk to either of them.

Hardcore cold shoulder. Wow. But finally, Thomas Swope was like, this is enough. Francis, we love you. Dr. Hyde, you're part of the family. As a gesture of goodwill, let me buy you guys a house. Wow. Mm-hmm.

He spent $7,500 on a house for them. Adjusted for inflation. I also used Dustin's calculator. Excellent. It's like a little under $200,000. So not like a crazy house, but I mean, as far as free homes go. No shit. That house, of course I looked it up.

Yeah. Still standing? No, damn it. It was on Lydia. All right. Yeah, I know. Very unsatisfying. I'd like to say that my house was still standing and we got to look at it on Google Street View.

So congratulations, Brendan. So years go by. Thomas is getting up there in age. He's living at the family mansion. And he starts thinking about his legacy. His estate is worth like $3.5 million. Wow. legacy his estate is worth like 3.5 million dollars wow i wanted to leave you hanging and make you think that i hadn't looked that way so that's like more than 89 million dollars wow today's money yeah i would just like to say

when i did the calculation online i just looked at it quickly and I was like, wow, 89 billion. That's crazy. So I wrote that down and then I was listening to the interview with the historian and he said a million. I was like, wow, I am very glad. Very glad that I'm just not going off my own nose. So, of course, Thomas had a will and the will said that his assets would be divided up amongst his relatives and some charities. All of the articles go into super detail about this. Like, 50% went to blah, blah, blah. All you need to know is that a lot of it would be equally divided amongst the nieces and nephews. Okay.

So he has this will. But in the fall of 1909, he started thinking, my family's already doing really well financially. Yeah. What if I changed the will so that more of it went to charity? A lot more of it. Yeah. He's toying with the idea, and he's talking about it pretty openly. He's toying with the idea, and he's talking about it pretty openly. All of a sudden, some weird stuff starts happening in the mansion.

Oh, no. In early October, Thomas Swope's cousin, whose name was Moss. Moss! I know. He was also the executor of the will died unexpectedly luckily they had a doctor basically on the scene dr hyde oh no dr hyde did what he could nothing unusual here folks keep it moving people die it's 1909. That's right. So Dr. Hyde did what he could to help the cousin.

He decided to relieve some pressure on the man's brain by draining his blood, which was... Common practice in that time. Horrifying, but common practice. Bloodletting was done by barbers in the old days. Ugh! Yes, so... Well, who better was able to do that? So you'd go in for your haircut, and then if you were having some kind of ailment,

they would drain some blood from you, which was supposed to... Ew! Yeah, cure you. Bloodletting. Are you going to add that to your list of services? Haircuts, color, waxing, finger and mouth. Bloodletting.

I just hope you keep up the hygiene in that place. So yeah, he drained some of the guy's blood, but it didn't do any good. Dr. Hyde was like, well, he died of a cerebral hemorrhage. Sad story. Two days later. What? Brandy. These things, tragedies happen.

Two days later, Thomas is reading the newspaper. He has a little tummy trouble trouble and a nurse who was there at the home they had nurses in the home did what dr hyde had instructed her to do she gave him a pill to help with his digestion immediately thomas starts feeling awful oh no He convulses. He's got a racing pulse. It's bad. He says, I wish I had not taken that medicine. I wish I were dead. Holy cow.

And then he died. Oh, my gosh. Luckily, Dr. Hyde was there the whole time helping out. I'm sure he had put Cytide in his... Brandy! My goodness! My goodness. In his pill bottle.

So Dr. Hyde had been giving him injections the whole time, helping him out. After Thomas died, Dr. Hyde was like, well, we had another cerebral hemorrhage here. Weird how this cerebral hemorrhage here. Weird how this cerebral hemorrhage produced these weird symptoms so different from the previous one. Brandy, are you a doctor? I am not.

Okay, well, Dr. Hyde was. I think we have to defer to him on this one. So that was sad, obviously. These two guys die. About a month and a half later, it's Thanksgiving time. The whole family gets together for a meal. It's lovely. But like a week later, nine of them come down with typhoid fever.

Holy shit. Bad luck. Was Typhoid Mary in there making the Thanksgiving meal? Typhoid Mary? Oh yeah! I forgot about that. In there stirring it with her bare hand. That is a disgusting story. Yes it is disgusting. If you don't know the story

wait till we're done then Google it. So now the whole family is very sick except for francis dr hyde they must have used some purell before thanksgiving i don't know they must fucking dr hyde he was like an apple a day and so they did that and that's why they were fine so chrisman swope francis's brother was one of the people who developed typhoid fever and it looked like he was gonna make a recovery i bet not so dr hyde is there thank goodness to aid in this recovery

he gives he suddenly took a turn for the worst right you're not gonna believe it he gives chrisman a tablet a few injections chrisman goes into convulsions and dies another cerebral image no no meningitis this time nobody saw it coming yeah a month later dr hyde tellsde tells Margaret Swope, one of Thomas's nieces, to take a tablet. She's like, sure. We were so suspicious of you before. Now we're not at all. What could possibly go wrong?

Like, this is what I don't understand about this. Yeah. At what point were they like, this is fishy? So she takes it. She goes into violent convulsions. And just by pure luck, another doctor, their family doctor, happened to be on the scene. And he treated her. And she survived.

By this point, the Swope family had a squad of nurses at their house at all times. And these nurses, I love these nurses. They were like, you guys, one death in a family is a tragedy. Three deaths and a bunch of typhoid fever is suspicious as hell. The nurses are a united front. They start swapping stories with each other comparing notes they're like this guy is trying to kill the whole damn family we won't stand for this so the nurses go to the other family doctor with their suspicions and i this is just my personal opinion. I think this guy was a grade A weenie because...

Grade A weenie? Listen to what he did. He goes, he was like, Dr. Hyde, sir, the nurses don't like you. And they think you should go. Why would he say that?

So of course, Dr. Hyde is like, I'm going to sue all the nurses for libel. Oh my gosh. And the other doctor is like, but could to sue all the nurses for libel oh my gosh and the other doctor is like but could you not though and could you just leave instead so he does oh you're right grade a weenie yeah i mean don't be like the nurses suspect you no anyone could see what was going on well yeah and i think that there would have he should have done some investigation or something and not just go straight to the doctor and be like, the nurses have become suspicious of you.

Well, and here's the thing. Like, he was actually there for a lot of this stuff. Well, then he should have been fucking suspicious. And I think he was, but, and who knows what the real story is. But it seemed to me from what I read that he really kind of was like, well, the nurses think. Anyway, he's not the real bad guy in this story so i guess i should calm down meanwhile maggie swope thomas's sister-in-law and francis's mother was like i knew that guy was bad news she starts doing fractions in her head. She's like, wait a minute. If this fortune was a pie, and all of us living swopes get a piece of it,

holy shit, I see what's going on here. He is trying to take the whole damn pie. Yes! He's making his piece bigger and bigger and bigger until he gets the whole pie to himself. This is how they should have taught us fractions in school. I would have done much better. You should have literally given us pie.

No, they should have been like, if your uncle is trying to murder you, what could his motive be? So word gets out and people are pretty sure that Dr. Hyde killed these three people and tried to kill the rest of the family. But they dig up Thomas' body and Chrisman's body just to be sure. And I say dig up. I think they were basically like on ice because the ground was too cold to bury him. Oh, God. So they open the igloo coolers. They've got them folded up inside there.

First, they look atrisman's body and the special is like i don't see traces of meningitis then he cut him open he smelled like almonds what is that what cyanide oh it smells like almonds i had no idea yeah um so yeah he's like but i definitely see traces of poison they look at thomas's body they're like yep more poison oh my gosh it smells like an almond joy in here uh but what about the first guy thomas's cousin? One of the nurses was there when Dr. Hyde drained the blood from the guy's body. And she said he drained way more than was normal at the time. He drained, okay, and I can't say this without being cringy. He drained 40% of the guy's blood.

Oh, my God. I know. What did he do with it? He just like threw it out with the bath water? I don't know. What did he do with it? God. Where do you put all that blood?

I don't know. Maybe he had a bunch of Tupperware. Ziploc bags. Started making smoothies for the people. God. So people were like, maybe that was the cause of death. Yeah, maybe he lost 40% of his blood, so he died. Maybe it wasn't just cerebral hemorrhage.

Oh, my gosh. Then the Swope family, the ones who are still alive anyway, start talking. They're like, hey, remember Thanksgiving? We all had that lovely meal together at the mansion. But Dr. Hyde and Francis showed up to dinner with their own bottled water. Okay, in that day and age. Yes, here's what I wrote. That would be weird in 2018 yes adjusted for

inflation that would be super duper fucking weird that was not done not done at all it wouldn't be done today you don't show up no to a family meal like i'd get my own water. So they're like, that fucking guy infected our water with typhoid. Yeah. That's why we all got sick. This family's taking a long time to put these puzzle pieces together. They were rich. They were not bright. So police start investigating this.

Yes. And what they turn up does not look good for our boy, Dr. Hyde. Oh, that's right. Your friend, Dr. Hyde. We both love him. Both respect the hell out of him. So it turns out, a little while after Thomas died, Dr. Hyde went to another local doctor and was like,

Hey, man, could you give me some cultures of i don't know typhoid diphtheria any other horrible bacteria you've got laying around don't worry these are definitely for experiments and not for wiping out my in-laws. And the guy was like, yeah, that sounds totally reasonable. Yeah, you're great. Because at the time, I think Dr. Hyde was president of the Jackson County Medical Board or something. He was higher. Then police found out that he went to a local pharmacy

and bought cyanide. Oh, weird. Brandy's theory all along. So it was cyanide of potassium, which was weird for a doctor to buy. It's poison, obviously. And usually only jewelers use it to clean stuff. Also murderers use it. Even weirder, he asked for it

in capsules. He told the pharmacist, don't worry, I just want to kill some mean dogs. What? Not my in-laws. It's a terrible excuse. I'm more pissed about killing dogs than I

am people. What? I hate when people kill dogs well yeah i do too very upsetting what about people i mean yeah people are not helpless creatures like dogs are i think you were pretty helpless if you were well if you were being secretly poisoned yes i feel just as bad about that. Wow. But it definitely takes somebody up another. Your sympathy knows no bounds. It definitely takes it up another notch.

Obviously, he wasn't legitimately planning on killing dogs, but that he could even joke about that. He wasn't joking. Use it as his excuse. The pharmacist was like, hey, that's a good one. joking okay you're getting fired up about the weirdest parts of this story i just cannot handle i love dogs a lot have you ever seen the movie a dog's purpose um was that based on that book well i don't fucking know i've never read the book you say that like you can't read i can't i can't it was then that kristen learned that brandy turns out zach's just been reading to you from his website i have no idea though it's the worst movie i've ever seen in my life what's it about it's about

a dog that dies over and over and over again. Yeah, I saw the preview. I was like, no fucking way. Zach made me watch it. No, why would he do that? I started crying at about one minute and 32 seconds in and did not stop for two hours. That looked horrible. And the whole time, I keep going to Zach, why are you making me watch this?

This is the worst movie ever. Was he enjoying it? I mean, he thought it was a moving film. Did he cry? I don't think so. Brandy, you don't have to lie. I've never seen him cry in a movie. Oh, come on.

The closest thing that I can think of. I think you need to take a flashlight into a movie theater we saw it at our house we did not go to the theater and see this movie the closest thing that i can think of that he's cried in is he's like welled up not actually cried watching this is us which i've never i would be concerned he didn't have a heart if he didn't. Everyone says they cry during that show. And I feel like I don't need that. Every episode. Why?

It's so touching. It's an excellent show. You should really watch it. Okay. This episode of Let's Go to Court is brought to you by... God, we fucking wish. This is us. No, it's brought to you by us and that's it and the gaming historian

head on over to the gaming historian.com and purchase your copy of the gaming historian volume one on blu-ray you are so good because i was about to make fun of Norman for every week now, like coming home in the middle of us recording. In the middle he interrupts our podcast. And he's like, hey, how's it going? And then he makes a sandwich. For 45 minutes. Yes. He's the slowest sandwich maker.

He would not cut it at Jimmy John's. Let me tell you. Yeah, no kidding. He'd be fired from Subway. And you know they don't like to fire their folks. Jared Fogle reference. It sure is. Okay.

So the Swope family is disgusted by this whole thing. They're like, Francis, you married a dud. Francis is having none of it. Do you think she knows? by this whole thing. They're like, Frances, you married a dud. You married a dud. Frances is having none of it. Do you think she knows? Okay. So she stands by him this whole time. The thing that...

That country song was written about her. Stand by your man. Just like that the thing that i find amazing about all these articles is they all just basically say you know francis stood by him blah blah nobody seems to even entertain the idea that maybe they were in on it together. Yeah. Perhaps because he had this history of being just god-awful. So, yeah, I think it's totally possible that this was just his thing. Well, she would benefit. Sure.

I think she was in on it. You think so? I'm saying it right here now. Only because everybody's dead and it doesn't matter. Yeah, she's for sure dead. Yeah, I don't know. I bet she wasn't on it why how could she not know she brought her own bottled water to thanksgiving so the story i heard on that was he had been telling them the swopes for a long time he tasted their water he was like you know this doesn't

taste right you guys really need to get different water you're gonna get typhoid from this blah blah blah so then when thanksgiving came and they brought their own water you know he was like so maybe she was you're giving me a look like that it's just pure bullshit fine actually i think that's some pretty good pre-planning on his part to put that out there of course it was but if i'm trying to be charitable i was like slightly impressed by his forethought oh yeah he wasn't dumb no we heard he was very charming and a giant doucher i've never heard it called doucher. I've only heard douchebag.

Yeah, doucher is a thing people say. I'm not saying people don't say it. I'm just saying this is my first time hearing it. And thank you for bringing this into my life. Okay, so Frances is having none of it. She's like, you guys are the worst. Quit calling my husband a murderer. It isn't cute.

It might not be cute, but it's the truth. Quit calling my husband a murderer. It isn't cute. It's cute. It might not be cute, but it's the truth. I hate it when you do that. He's the love of my life. Oh, God. Mama Bear Maggie is like, sorry, Francis. I'm hiring the best lawyer in Kansas City to prosecute this. Who's the best lawyer in Kansas City?

Get ready. Former mayor and eventual U.S. Senator James A. Reed. Woo! Perhaps you've seen the boulevard named after him. Yes! That was my favorite part about doing this case. I was like, I've driven on that! Francis is like, fine.

You got the best lawyer in Kansas City. I'll get the second best lawyer in Kansas City. Frank Walsh. I don't think he has a road. No, this is why you can't be second best. Never driven on Frank Walsh Boulevard. Have not. At this point, police arrest Dr. Hyde.

A grand jury indicts him on 11 counts, ranging from murder to manslaughter to whatever you get when you unsuccessfully poison a whole family. Hyde was like, I am not guilty. How dare you? So the prosecution had this strategy. Let's only try him for the murder of Thomas Swope. It'll be a slam dunk. It'll be enough to ensure that he gets either the death penalty or he goes to prison for life. We won't have to prove all this other stuff. Yeah, and the victim is high profile, so we'll likely have the sympathy of a jury. And I think it's a good strategy.

Yeah, people are going to be like, I like to go to Swope Park. That sweet man, I sat next to him on the streetcar. Yes. So they move forward. All eyes are on Kansas City. This case got national media coverage. And of course, a lot of nurses took the stand for the prosecution. Yeah.

And they didn't have the nicest things to say about Dr. Hyde. Weirdly. the prosecution yeah and they didn't have the nicest things to say about dr hyde weirdly one of them said that in the very short window remember like two days between when the cousin died and thomas died yeah dr hyde came to her and said um hey can you like put in a good word for me because i would really like to be the new executor of the will, and I hear that position just opened up. Oh my gosh! That's obviously not a direct quote, but you get the idea. I like to think that's exactly how he said it. Thank you.

So the prosecution also called witnesses to testify to the other questionable deaths and poisonings. The only thing that sucked for the prosecution was the fact that the Swope family doctor died before he could give any testimony. Dun, dun, dun. Yes. Did he die of cyanide poisoning? Good question, actually. So he probably would have been the strongest witness against Dr. Hyde because he saw a lot of this stuff firsthand. Yeah.

And unlike all the nurses, he had a penis. Call that a credibility stick. It was a little tiny weenie, right? But you know people would have been like, ah, oh man! You know, the nurse called him a murderer, but she said it in such a shrill way. So meanwhile, the defense brought in witnesses who said, no, it's totally possible that Chrisman died of meningitis.

And the defense was also like, hey, you know, what Dr. Hyde did was pretty normal. He injected Chrisman and Thomas with strychnine, and we use that sometimes to elevate blood pressure. But here's the thing. So that was normal for doctors to use to elevate blood pressure. But you had to have kind of a light hand with it because if you did too much... Yeah, because it's also poison. Yes, yes. And, get this, you'd convulse and die. Yeah.

So the prosecution had all these doctors saying, no no this sort of thing just isn't done but the defense had a few doctors who were like this isn't outside the norm of what we do then they got into a big argument over typhoid prosecution was like dr hyde brought typhoid into the house the defense was likepoint, it could have been flies. The prosecution was like, shut up, this happened in the winter. It did not. No flies.

Frances testified in her husband's defense. And like I was saying, Dr. Hyde, you know, big popular douchebag. He'd been elected president of the Jackson County Medical Association. So there were people in the medical community who stood by him. Or at least I'd be willing to say maybe didn't feel comfortable going against him. Yeah.

Dr. Hyde testified in his own defense. Of course he did. We love it. Love it when they do that. I'm not one bit surprised that he testified in his own defense why because he's like he is a doucher who thinks he's amazing uh-huh and believes that all of this like these lies that he spends people will just believe so who better to go up there and tell these lies to the jury himself yeah Yeah. Best liar ever. Yeah.

So at first on the stand, he was really smooth. He's like, look, you guys, I know this all looks bad, but I can explain. I've been using cyanide for like 10 years. I use it to remove nitrate stains from my fingers. What the hell that means? I don't know. And those poison capsules I bought, those were to kill cockroaches in my office. And I got them in capsules because they're stronger that way. How big are these fucking cockroaches? They think they're going to be taking a capsule.

Okay, cockroach, you're going to need to take that with a meal. Yeah, you get upset stuff. And all those missing typhoid germs and diphtheria germs, those aren't missing. I just used those in experiments in my office. See? It's all a hilarious misunderstanding. Where's uh experiment logs brandy no follow-up questions please you are starting to sound like james a reed

the man not the road because he stands up he starts crossing cross-examining him. And James is like, so you've been using cyanide for 10 years, huh? And Dr. Heidi's like, yeah. James is like, so if you've been using it for that long, where have you been buying it? Because the pharmacist you normally go to can't back you up on that claim. I've been ordering it online. It's the old timey internet so hyde was like then james is like okay so you bought poison for the cockroaches in your office but capsules seem like a super odd choice for that job. Yes!

Why not just get it in a bottle with a glass stopper instead of having to open up all these capsules and sprinkle them everywhere. Sprinkle it around, exactly. Or put them on a plate with a little sandwich. Sandwich, hide it inside the sandwich, roll it up in a Kraft single. That's how

we get my dog to take medicine. And that's how we get the cockroaches and hyde was like fair point my dude i never thought to do it that way so james is like uh okay i'll go down that road with you so you've got this poison scattered all over your office to kill these roaches uh-huh did you give anybody a heads up like your secretary or your janitor that poison was everywhere and hyde's like no so the jury deliberated for several days. Several days? Really? I want to say it was three days.

It's more like a few. Oh, excuse me. It's like one is one day. A couple is two days. A few is three days. Several is four days or more. You know, I hate that you're calling me out on this, but I do agree with what you're saying. And I hate that even more. So they found him guilty.

Good. Yeah. They sentenced Dr. Hyde to life in prison. Hmm. But. I'm waiting for the but. I wanted to, to like get real comfy and you being happy i wasn't i just you gave it away see it i know i gave it away you have a terrible poker face i really do

so you want to play some poker i got all the clovers well is an ace good i forget is it high or low so a year later hyde appealed and he won what the fuck the missouri supreme court overturned the verdict on the grounds that the trial judge shouldn't have let the prosecution present evidence about the other deaths and poisonings. You know, he's on trial for Thomas Swope's death. They shouldn't have been able to present all that. I disagree with that.

I think it's pertinent. See, I do, too. Yeah. But I. Yeah. Huh. pertinent see i do too yeah but i uh yeah huh but unless you can i guess wouldn't you have to prove yeah you'd have to be able to prove those things that's exactly it yeah and they also found that they hadn't proven that thomas swope was actually murdered yeah you look so annoyed i am well don't worry they had a second trial.

And he was acquitted? No. No. You ready for this? Yeah. So they had a jury. They were sequestered in a local hotel. The whole deal.

Is the hotel still standing? I couldn't figure out what hotel it was. I wish. But at one point, one of the jurors, and I'm quoting here, lost his wits. Lost his wits? He said he missed his wife too much. So he fled in the middle of the night to go be with his wife. What?

So they called a mistrial? Yep. Holy shit. That's exactly what Norman would do. i can't possibly be away from her he goes running down the street in his boxers i miss my way oh my gosh so do they do a third trial they do a third trial but the jury couldn't reach a unanimous verdict. Hung jury? Okay, get this. The majority of jurors, I think it was nine to three, thought that Dr. Hyde should be acquitted. Shut the fuck up.

I know. I know. My gosh. In 1914, the charges against Dr. Hyde were dismissed. He was free to go. Holy shit. Dr. Hyde lost his medical license. Thank God!

A few years later, Frances divorced him. She said he abused her and their children, but she said that he was still innocent of the murderers and attempted murders. Then, Dr. Hyde got his medical license back. He moved back home to Lexington, Missouri, where he practiced medicine. Oh, my God. And he died in 1934 of a cerebral hemorrhage.

Is that for real? Yes. Oh, my God. I think I saw, and this, I mean, this is like the douchiest of douche. I think he went into the newspaper office

that morning to like see what the news was as it was being printed because he wanted to know before everyone else and he like dropped dead there. That's super douchey. Uh-huh. Quit doing that, Kristen. Like, see what the news was as it was being printed because he wanted to know before everyone else. And he, like, dropped dead there. That's super douchey. Uh-huh.

Quit doing that, Kristen. I'm going to end on time. Every morning, Kristen emails Google and asks for the show's latest story. Hey, guys, it's me again. I want to be up to date on everything. They keep blocking her, so she keeps having to come up with new email addresses. It's like notkristin at gmail.com. I swear it's notkristin at gmail.com.

Pretty soon I'm going to have to resort to Yahoo. That'll be a sad day. So I want to end on Thomas Swope. Okay. Just because, in my opinion, Dr. Hyde was a fucking serial killer who got away with it. Yeah.

So after he was for sure murdered in 1909, we're allowed to say this, right? When everyone's dead. Yeah. Shouldn't be a problem. Yeah. Thomas Swope's body was kept in a holding vault for nine years.

Nine years? Well, they were building the memorial for him. Holy shit. Look, it was a good cooler they had him in. Oh. No, I don't know what they had. Wait. What?

Had he been embalmed? Well, I don't know. Kristen. I mean, I'm sure he was like tucked away in a casket or something. I don't know. He was fine. Okay. Don't worry about it.

So, as I said, he was, yeah, nine years, blah, blah, blah, while the memorial was built in his honor. And you can see the memorial today at Swope Park. It's what? What? His body's in the memorial? No, no, no. He was buried there. Oh.

What do you mean? Like, I'm just picturing the base of its memorial. It's his casket. Oh, my God. Like a mausoleum. Wait, have you seen pictures of the memorial? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it's like that U-shaped structure.

It looks kind of Greek with the columns and everything. I've seen that. It has lion statues on either side of it. He that U-shaped structure. It looks kind of Greek with the columns and everything. Yeah, I've seen that. It has lion statues on either side of it. He's inside the lion's head. His head is in the lion's head. So it overlooks the whole park. Yeah. And there's a Latin inscription.

Man, I meant for this to be kind of touching. I'm sorry. Who's the doucher now? Clearly me. who's the doucher now clearly me so there's a latin inscription on the memorial which in english reads reader if you would see his monument look about you so that's the story of thomas swope that was good that was nuts wasn't it yeah and infuri infuriating. Yeah. I mean has there ever been a more obvious like I like to think that Dr. Hyde had another side to him called Mr. Jekyll or he's just like a super nice guy. You are so proud of yourself right now. He's like helping little old ladies across the

street. He's like here take this pill and it's actually like something helpful it's not oh that's the cyanide hang on shouldn't have worn this coat today but can you believe that that's nuts i can't believe he got off. I know. That's deeply unsatisfying. Okay. And people about this story are like, will we ever know what really happened? No, we know what happened! Yes, we know.

Duh. Yeah, we know what happened. Will justice be served? No. No. Well, because everybody's dead. Do we know what happened? Yes.

Good grief. Yes. Wow. I know. That's good. I didn't know anything about that. I loved yours. This was, we are learning so much.

Yes. Just really opening everybody's minds to the history of Kansas City. Our brains are getting so big that we're going to need to do some bloodletting. I'm a cosmetologist, which is basically a barber. So I'll do some bloodletting for us. Just don't take 40% of my blood. Okay. So sometimes if it wasn't enough or if they didn't need like a full bloodletting, they would leach you.

I know. I know. That leaches on you. That's disgusting. Ugh. Oh's disgusting. The funny thing about that is like in those times, sometimes it was good to not be super wealthy because then you didn't have access to

that awesome medical care. What? I've just been thinking for like a solid week about how salty you were at lunch last week. Oh, my gosh. See, I don't even have to tell you more. Okay. So every week after we record this podcast, Kristen and I go to lunch.

And we have a regular place we go. But last week we decided to mix it up and go to a different place and um we're walking there you know and chris is telling me that they had just had it for dinner the night before and how much she loved it and couldn't stop thinking about it and wanted to go back but that norman didn't really like the place because usually they have like live music and it's so loud in there and you can't even focus. The thing Norman hates more than anything in life. And I'm serious.

Like if we walk into a place and he sees a guy with a guitar and a microphone and you know that guy is going to be strumming really hard and you can't have a conversation, that is the worst possible scenario for Norman. So we get there. We go in. There's not a soul in there. There's like, I don't know, five or six other tables. But you could hear a pin drop in this restaurant. There's no conversation happening.

And we are loud. Yes. Clearly, you listen to this podcast you know there's nothing happening there's no music playing there's like one sad radio coming from the kitchen fine i can overlook that we go barely you were like um i feel like we're eating in a library we sit down i order a diet coke my beverage of choice kirsten has a water or an iced tea i don't remember i the waitress brings the drink, sets it down. I take a drink. This is not Diet Coke that she has brought me. It is, in fact, Diet Pepsi.

Dun, dun, dun! Which is in no way the same thing. You were hot. Here is the deal. There is a protocol that is required to take place in a restaurant.

When I order Diet Coke, you say, oh, I'm sorry, we serve Pepsi products. Is Diet Pepsi okay? To which I respond, fuck no, I don't want your Diet Pepsi.

And that's not really an exaggeration. I've't want your Diet Pepsi. And that's not really an exaggeration. I've seen it occur many times. And then I'll just stick to water. Yes. This did not happen. Nope. At this restaurant last week.

She brought me a Diet Pepsi and played it off like it was a Diet Coke. Might as well have brought you cyanide. Might as well have. So Iide might as well so i'm not going back there again kristin i can't sit in that silent restaurant and drink diet pepsi again you know after after you left last week norman was like man brandy was really fired up about that diet pepsi i was like she does not like diet pepsi not so here's the deal it's not the waitress's fault that they serve diet pepsi it is however her fault that she when i ordered diet coke that she did not say oh i'm sorry we have pepsi products diet pepsi and diet coke

are not the same thing you know what I saw her twirling her mustache. Doing an evil laugh. I think it was all for fun. She's like, I'll see if she says anything. Do you ever say anything? No. No. You just take it.

Just take it. And you just boil with rage. Yeah, I get angry. And you say, I will never come there again. I mean, I'd go there again i would not not willingly you wouldn't it's gonna be a minute until i go there i thought the food was good the food was atmosphere terrible beverage terrible service not great company horrible well the fact that we had to whisper. Yeah, that was weird. Couldn't talk about anything funny. It had to be very, very whispery.

Yes. Yeah. Well, I'll take you to sushi. I don't want that. Thank you, Kristen. I'm going to pass. Oh, I think I'm getting a page. Oh, there's been an emergency.

I have to leave. Oh, there's an emergency. I hate i hate sushi will never eat it ever yeah um there are certain things that i know you're just not gonna go for sushi being one of them nope not gonna happen not interested i don't want to eat your sushi i don't want to eat your avocado this is why i love sharing nachos with you. Well, if you enjoyed this podcast, shit, I never say this part. Then follow us on social media, like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram, head on over to iTunes. Even if you don't listen to us through iTunes, head on over to iTunes. Give us a rating. Leave us a review. Did you see the review

about you? I did. Is it someone you know? Yeah. It's one of the girls that works at the salon. Well, we appreciated them the less. That's right. But she is a listener.

She's not just a fan of you. She's not just a fan of you. She's not just a fan of me. And then join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from interviews and articles by Monroe Dodd, kchistory.org, and historicalcrimedetective.com. And I got my info from articles for the New York Daily News, the Kansas City Star, kchistory.org, and The Examiner.

For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours. But please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. And apparently, check out kchistory.org, since we both pulled from there