Let's Go To Court! - 248: The Lost Script & License Plate Scanners

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

Gather ‘round, dear listeners, for a devastating tale! A nugget of pure comedy gold has, sadly, been lost forever. You see, two months ago, one of our Patrons suggested that we do something fun for our upcoming April Fools’ Day episode. He cited that thing that Michael Che and Colin Jost do when they swap jokes on SNL. He suggested we do something similar – why not write scripts for the other person to read? Kristin loooooved the idea. Brandi did not. Kristin, (brilliant goddess that she is) thought that if *she* handled the execution of this fabulous idea, she could get Brandi on board and we’d all revel in a comedic wonder. So, she quietly wrote up a script for Brandi to read. Then, she formatted it into cue cards.  When it came time to record, Kristin presented Brandi with the script. And Brandi was like… hell no, I’m not reading that. (Was it because the script contained a few tangents about her unwavering crush on Dr. Phil? The world may never know!) So, yeah, umm… that script will never see the light of day. …but we do have *one* story to tell you:  When Lonnie Paye didn’t return his girlfriend’s phone calls, she became concerned. Had she done something to upset him? Was he just busy? Days passed, and eventually, she called the police. When they arrived at Lonnie’s upscale home, they discovered that she’d been right to be concerned. Lonnie’s body was on the floor of his garage. He’d been shot multiple times. Lonnie’s family was shocked by his death, but gave investigators a few leads. Lonnie had a rocky relationship with the mother of his infant son. Could she have done something? He also had some business relationships that might have gone sour. Perhaps that was to blame. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: 100% real life In this episode, Brandi pulled from: |“Deidra Griffin” episode Snapped “Deidra Griffin v. State of Maryland” mdcourts.gov “Michigan woman jailed in Bay County on Maryland murder charge; extradition hearing set” by Cole Waterman, mlive.com “Trial begins for Michigan woman accused of killing ex-boyfriend in Randallstown” by Alison Knezevich, The Baltimore Sun “Michigan woman gets 60 years for murder of ex in Baltimore County” by Pamela Wood, The Baltimore Sun YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 45+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Pond. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll be listening. And I'll be talking about license plate scanners.

Fascinating. It will be, just hold on to your britches. Fascinating. Everyone, we've had some pod drama it's not drama it is drama drama our podcast was almost killed today this very day almost killed two months ago a member of our discord who shall remain nameless came to us with an idea that I thought was quite amazing. And I did not. And I vetoed the idea in the moment.

Here was the idea. You know how Colin Jost and Michael Che do that thing where they swap jokes for each other? They have to read these jokes. Yeah, I'm very familiar with it. I love the sketch. Do you? Do you love it? I do.

I love the bit. Okay, everyone. I wrote a script for Brandy. I did it cue card style. In the first taping of this episode, she was like, what the fuck? No, I'm not reading that. So then I started to read it. And she decided it was even too offensive for me to read.

Very offensive. Yeah. So that shall remain a Let's Go to Court mystery. That is going into the vault. I think we all just have to assume it was amazing comedy sure and no one was ready for it sometimes things can be both both what amazing comedy and horribly offensive what no i disagree everyone i was just giving brandy a chance to tell you how she really felt.

But she's not ready. She's not ready. So, yeah, it was a big flop. Oh, it was for April Fool's. It was for April. It was intentionally this episode will come out just before April Fool's Day. So it was intended to be an April Fool's prank. Brandy rejected the prank.

Did not go according to plan. And so here we are with take two of the episode and I'm just gonna do a case it's gonna be wonderful and everyone's gonna love it you know what would be great is if it was super offensive

the case I did is just like unbelievably offensive but you just don't realize it people are like oh my god like unbelievably offensive. But you just don't realize it. People are like, oh my God, they put this out. What the hell did they cut? Just amazing comedy that would have made you laugh

so hard. Or write in with... Never listen to the podcast ever again. Well, should we plug our Patreon? Yes, absolutely. Go over to Patreon. On those bonus episodes, we both cover episodes.

That's right. Or both cover cases. We also, next week, we'll be having a Zoom hangout. So join our Patreon at the $7 level or higher. And you can join that the very day that you're listening to this episode. Yeah, Brandy downloaded some weird-ass game. Yeah. We're going to play it.

We're going to play a game called Shoutrageous. Shoutrageous. It's basically Outburst, but they're not allowed to call it that because that's copyrighted. Yeah. Shoutrageous is what they call it instead poppycock i say poppycock all right well oh excuse me we want to talk about friday night at all oh last friday night we performed at comic con we had a sold-out show blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yes, we were worried that no one would show up to our show.

Not only did you all show up, you filled the fucking room. Yeah. It was amazing. Thank you all so much. Thank you to everyone who came out. People drove from all over. Someone flew in from New York to see us. New York City?

That's wild. And shout out to the man who had no idea who we are, but came and sat and seemed to enjoy the show. Okay, so we did a little Q&A sesh at the end of the show. And a gentleman raised his hand to ask a question. This was after Brandi sang Christmas Shoes to the entire audience. I sang Christmas Shoes live. No, someone requested it. That was a plant.

It was a Russian bot. And I talked about necrophilia. And this gentleman raises his hand during the question sesh, and he says, Hi, yes, I've actually never heard your show before. I just came to this today because the description sounded interesting. He said he enjoyed it. He was going to subscribe and he asked for recommendations for what episodes he should start with. So all that to get one new listener.

And that's really all we were after. No, but thank you to everybody who came. That was so nice. Yes, people drove hours to be there. I mean, it was amazing. People lined up in the hallway to get into that room. At one point, the line to see us was longer than the line to see William Shatner. Well, that's probably because, like—

Well, William Shatner was there every day, and we were only there the one specific time. Yeah, so, I mean, that's the kind of stat that only your mom brags about. That's fine. I'm happy to brag like your mom, Kristen. A notorious bragger. Sherry Pitts. Portia Ray Ray, we called her out in the room. And then at the end, we're like, how'd that make you feel?

And she said, embarrassed. Because she didn't want to be associated with our podcast. No, it was very sweet. I loved it. It was really cool having our families there. Yeah. That was a really awesome thing. It was.

Yeah. All right. You ready to hear about license plate scanners? I think so. This case is about a lot more than that. Are you sure you don't want me to read my case to you? I'm sure. a lot more than that.

Are you sure you don't want me to read my case to you? I'm sure. All right. Shout outs to an episode of Snapped and the court record. Almost all of this comes from those two sources. I'm very excited to hear

how Snapped did something with license plate scanners. Well, stay tuned, Kristen. I'm going to tell you all about it. I guess I'll sit here for a while. Read all about it. Isn't that what that show was that we watched on Fridays in fifth grade? Read all about it.

Boom, ba-doom, ba-doom, to scout down all the clues. Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. We forgot to break for an ad. Oh, okay. Break for an ad. Oh, and I'm no longer doing the doodaloo. I've asked her to stop.

The truth is many people have asked me to stop. We got some complaints. I got some complaints. I just want you to know that I take your complaints seriously. And she has reluctantly agreed to stop making a noise. I don't want to stop. I'm going to continue to do it in the privacy of my own bedroom, maybe. Because it's a fun noise to make.

But anyway, I hear you. You don't like it. Jerks. All right, here's an ad. And we're back. Bet you wish I did a little noise. I'm sorry, we can't. Okay.

The world has taken that away from all of us. Okay. Are you ready? I don't know. Do I need to hit my sources again? No, we heard your court record and snapped. Sure. Okay.

Wanda Gresham had waited long enough. It was time to call the police, she decided. It was just before 8 p.m. on July 1st, 2015, and Wanda was standing outside of her boyfriend's house in Randallstown, Maryland, which is a suburb of Baltimore. Which is a suburb of Baltimore. Why'd you say that twice? Because I said Baltimore on the first one. Not Baltaless. Honestly, can you imagine anything funnier than someone going to Baltimore

and looking around with their nose in the air and going, more like ball to less. Am I right? Wanda hadn't heard from her boyfriend, 51-year-old Lonnie Paye Jr. since June 19th. Oh. July 1st at this point. Well, yeah. That morning, she had left Lonnie's house for work between 6.30 and 7 a.m.

after spending the previous night there. Wanda and Lonnie had talked that morning about making plans for that evening, doing dinner together, something like that. But then Wanda had never heard from Lonnie. When he didn't respond to her calls or texts that day. Wanda said she'd just gone home after work and she assumed that she'd upset Lonnie somehow. But she wasn't sure what she'd done. She was pretty sure they'd left on good terms that morning. It seemed pretty odd, but there was no word from Lonnie. Over the next 12 days, Wanda continued to try and reach Lonnie. Was this a pattern in their relationship? Did he, like, go off sometimes?

Okay. No, it doesn't seem to be. But we'll maybe, we're going to get to in just a second, like, maybe why she waited this long. Because she killed him? No. No, no, no. Sorry. Or did she?

See, that's why I should never make these guesses. Although you did say it was an episode of Snapped. So over the next 12 days, Wanda continued to try and reach Lonnie. She stopped by his home like every other day. She lived like five minutes away from him, so it wasn't like out of the way. She came by every other day, knocked on the door, but he never answered. Did he burp in response? No, no one burped ever anywhere. I think you did. No. And I was shocked by it because it's not very ladylike. But Lonnie never responded to the calls, texts, nothing.

But by the 1st of July, Wanda was convinced that something had happened to Lonnie. On that day, she'd come to his house and Wanda had noticed for the first time that the lawn was really overgrown. Lonnie was super particular about his yard. That's how he got his nickname Lonnie. Okay. Just kidding. That's his actual name. You know what?

When you said, like before you got to that joke, I was like, I cannot believe she didn't make some stupid joke about Lonnie loving his lawn. And yet here we are. I did make it. Wow. Anyway, Lonnie was very particular about his lawn. And yet here we are. I did make it. Wow. Anyway, Lonnie was very particular about his yard. He stuck to a very specific lawn care schedule. He would never let his lawn get out of control as it currently was. And that was the final straw for Wanda. She was convinced that Lonnie wasn't actually just ignoring her by choice. Something must have happened to him.

So that evening, standing in front of Lonnie's home, she called 911 and requested a welfare check. I almost said 9-1-1-1. And then she hung up. Right. Because that's not a number. That's not the right number. When police arrived at Lonnie's house that evening, the officers checked the mailbox and they discovered that it had not been checked or emptied since June 19th. They knocked on the front door.

They kind of did like a perimeter check, but the house was sealed up. There was no way to get in. And so the officers had called the fire department to come in and like break down the front door. While waiting for the fire department, though, one of the officers like saw Lonnie's like work van parked in the driveway of his house. This is a very nice house. This is like a very upscale suburb that he lives in. It's about a $500,000 house with a three car garage. Very nice area.

Are you going to give us the address? There's no pictures available. I did look it up. Do you want it? No, it's fine. I can tell you don't want to give it. If there were interior pictures, I would have given it to you, but it's just simply a waste of time. Oh, okay. a waste of time. Oh, OK. Anyway, so one of the officers notices that Lonnie's like work van is parked in the driveway.

And so he decides to just like try the door and it's unlocked. And inside of the work van is a garage door opener. And so the officer hits the garage door opener and one of the doors on the three car garage opens. When that door opened, the officers were met with the unmistakable odor of death. And there lying on the floor of his garage was Lonnie Paye Jr. It was clear that he had been there deceased for quite some time. He was in an advanced stage of decomposition. Because of this advanced stage of decomposition, Lonnie's cause of death wasn't immediately clear.

They wondered if maybe he had suffered some kind of medical emergency or if he'd fallen and been unable to call for help. It wasn't until police discovered four bullet casings on the floor of the garage that it was determined that this was a homicide. Lonnie had been shot multiple times. So the homicide detectives were called in to investigate. So detectives Massey and Janowitz were assigned to the case and they arrived at Lonnie's house somewhere around 1130 p.m. that night. In case you weren't sure what p.m. meant. Thank you.

You're welcome. I don't judge at all when people say 10 a.m. in the morning. Right, I do. Anyway. Right, I do. Anyway, ultimately, the officers went into Lonnie's house and they observed like everything was pretty normal inside the house. There were no signs of forced entry. There was no evidence of a struggle inside the home. But as they were doing like clearing the scene, assessing the scene, they noticed that there was a surveillance camera outside the front of the house that kind of covered the garage area and the front door. And inside, detectives located a hard drive that

stored the camera's recorded information. And so they got to work downloading the content, hoping that it had captured something helpful to this investigation. At this point, though, all they had was Wanda Gresham. But she was extremely cooperative. Wanda told investigators that she and Lonnie had met on a dating website like two or three months earlier and that they were pretty seriously. She wasn't living with him or anything like that. She didn't have a key to his house, but she did stay the night there regularly. And she had spent the night with him on June 18th, 2015. The next morning on June 19th, she'd gotten up, gotten ready for work, and she'd left sometime around 630 or 7.

And they had made like tentative plans to get together for dinner that night. had made like tentative plans to get together for dinner that night. But then she never heard from him, which resulted in her, you know, making this welfare call 12 days later. She explained that Lonnie was involved in a custody dispute at this time with an ex-girlfriend. Her name was Deidre Griffin, and she was currently living in Michigan. Wanda told the officers that Lonnie had actually just recently been awarded visitation. He was actually scheduled to have his first visitation from June 25th through June 30th, and that he had planned to drive to Michigan, go pick up his son, who was like a year old at this point, and bring him back to Maryland for that five-day period. Wanda and Lonnie had made plans like for like a few days before this trip to go shopping and get the essentials that he would need at his home for his son.

Because this is his first child. He didn't have anything for kids in his home. And so he needed to get a crib and diapers and some clothes and whatever. And so they had made plans to go do that. But then Lonnie had just kind of disappeared and Wanda hadn't been able to reach him. Wanda told investigators at that point that that was one of the reasons that she had allowed so much time to pass before calling. That makes perfect sense. Yes, for the welfare check. She thought maybe Lonnie had left for Michigan early. Maybe he decided it was something he wanted to do on his own and didn't want Wanda involved. And so she just kind of let him have his space. Well, and yeah, they'd been together for like three months. Yeah. Yeah, you don't totally flip out when someone doesn't answer your calls.

Yeah. Okay. I apologize for implying that she was the murderer. I can see now she was just being very logical. She was. Yeah. Sorry about that. I can say that, like, I think she reacted very logically.

I would not have reacted that logically. Well, because you're like dog years in a relationship. Yeah. Three months for you. You're absolutely right. I will say that on this episode of Snapped, they talked to Lonnie's brother quite a bit. And he said that, like, Lonnie had been married a couple times by this point. And after his second divorce, he was like, I'm never getting fucking married again.

But then he met Wanda. And, like, Wanda seemed to like have long term potential. Like their relationship was very serious. Very. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's not pertinent at this point. I wanted to know.

I saw like a little yearning behind your eyes. Wow. It could have been that you wanted me to, like, take my shirt off, but... All I ever want is for you to take your pants off. When are you going to get that into your head? That's never happening. So Wanda had explained, you know, that's kind of why she'd allowed so much time to pass. Do you think you'll ever podcast in shorts?

I doubt it. Brandy. I might. What about in the summertime? Okay, I was going to say, last summer I went out in public in shorts a few times. The world did not end. And then in January when David and I were on our honeymoon, I wore shorts the entire time. And again, the world did not end.

So there's a possibility that I could wear them over here at some point to record this summer. I don't mean to sound creepy about it. I realize it sounds creepy. No, you just want me to be comfortable enough to do that. I get it. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. No, it's not about you wanting to see me in shorts. Who are you into? No, it's about you. You as my best

friend want me to be comfortable enough in my own skin to venture out in shorts. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what you're telling yourself right now. But what if I then open the door and I go,

And you're like, oh my God, you want to. This must creep me all along. Okay. I did have, oh gosh. Okay. I'm going to say this and it's definitely a vulnerable thing. And I'm afraid it's going to sound like bragging, but like, just please everybody understand where I'm coming from here. got the hottest ass no I had a little win this weekend

with people obviously people took pictures of us at the live show and have posted and tagged us and a bunch of stuff and I actually like the way I look in the pictures you looked beautiful thank you you looked beautiful too thank you yeah like that was that's a very new feeling to me to like see pictures of myself and not feel dread. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So that was like delightful. So thank you, everyone who shared pictures. I appreciate it. Yeah. Okay. Anyway. Okay, so Wanda tells them all of this. That's the reason she let the time pass. And then specifically when she got no response by July 1st, another reason that she determined that that was, you know, it was time to call the police was because that, based on his visitation schedule, Lonnie should have been back by then because he had visitation from the 25th. And also it had been a while. So, yeah, it's time to figure this out. Yeah.

So they get all of this information from Wanda. Like I said, she's very cooperative. She actually does multiple interviews with the police over the course of this investigation. She keeps calling to check in on the investigation, see, you know, how it's going, if she can do anything to help it. Like she's very involved. So after speaking to Wanda, they go speak to Lonnie's family. Lonnie's mom had already passed away by this point, but he was close with his dad and close with his brother. And so they reached out to them and informed them of Lonnie's death. And police asked Lonnie's brother at that time if he knew of anyone who could have wanted to harm Lonnie. And his brother gave a couple of possibilities.

He said that they should probably look into the people who worked for Lonnie. So, okay. This is actually really, I think this is really cool. So Lonnie grew up working on like his grandparents' farm. He was like a black kid born in 1963 in Maryland. Like, you know, pretty tough upbringing. And then as he got older, he went into the construction business. And he started his own business and worked as a general contractor. and had been super successful. He'd made lots of money. That's how he was able to

buy himself that beautiful house and like the nice part of town and whatever. And so like he had he had done very well for himself as a contractor. But his brother said that he didn't always pay the best. And so he was like, maybe look into some employees or former employees, see if there's somebody, you know, disgruntled or something. That might be a good starting point. And then his brother said that there was also 40-year-old Deidre Griffin. So this is the second time this name has come up in this investigation. Deidre was a woman that Lonnie had dated for some time. They

dated for like four years. But Deidre lived in Michigan. Lonnie lived in Maryland. At some point, Deidre had moved to Maryland and lived with Lonnie for a while. But they had broken up after Deidre found out she was pregnant with Lonnie's son. So Deidre had suffered from horrible endometriosis like her entire life. Okay. She had been told she could never have children. But like the pain of the endometriosis had gotten so bad that she decided to undergo surgery as treatment for it. And after that surgery, she became pregnant.

Holy shit. Like three months after the surgery. Whoa became pregnant. Holy shit. Like three months after the surgery. Whoa. Yeah. At like 40 years old. Wow. Yeah. So was she excited about this?

She was thrilled. She had thought like this was something that was not in the cards for her. Absolutely. And so she was just over the moon about it. Lonnie, however, was not. He had never wanted kids. He was like, I'm 51 years old. Like, you know, this is not this is not for me.

And they'd gotten in a huge fight about it. Lonnie told Deidre he just wasn't interested in being a father. And so Deidre, who at this point was living with Lonnie, packed all her stuff up and moved back to Bay City, Michigan. Wow. Yeah. So Lonnie tells his family that he broke up with Deidre and she moved back to Michigan. And they're like, what? And he's like, yeah, she's pregnant.

And I don't – I'm not going to be a dad. I'm not interested in that. And Lonnie's family – That's not really the way that works, but OK. Yeah. So Lonnie's family told him that they thought he was making a mistake. Yeah. They told Lonnie that it was one thing if he didn't want to have a committed relationship with Deidre. Like, totally fine. Right. You know, that's that's fine. But they told him that he should really have one with his son. Yeah. You've created the kid. And if you didn't want to be a father, there were steps you should have taken. come back to Maryland for some period of time to attempt living as a family. But it was clear

pretty quickly that the arrangement was not going to work out. Deidre and Lonnie were not getting along. It was clear there was not a spark between the two anymore. And so Deidre was like, yeah, I'm headed back to Michigan. And she packed up and she took the baby with her. But now Lonnie had bonded with his son and he wanted a relationship. And so he had filed for visitation rights. Lonnie's brother made a pretty big point about this on the snapped episode. He said that Lonnie was never looking for custody of his son. Right. He believed that his son should be in the care of his mother of Deidre. But he wanted visitation rights. He wanted to see him and he needed that court ordered because he didn't think that Deidre was just going to like let it happen on any kind of a schedule. And so he filed for it in court and a judge ruled that like, yeah, he gets to have time with his son. The judge ruled that he would

get five visitation days a month and that Lonnie would be permitted to bring his son to Maryland for those visitations. Reportedly, Deidre had been devastated by this ruling. She really thought that, like, Lonnie didn't stand a chance at getting any visitation rights. She, according to her sister-in-law, came home from court the day that this ruling came down and like went on a rampage and said that clearly Lonnie had paid off the judge in the case. Oh, no. Yeah, no. No.

Although it would be very, very hard. I mean, if someone had been like, basically, you're pregnant. Fuck you. Yeah, I don't want you. I don't have any interest in you. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, your baby is going to be states away. That'd be hard.

It would be very hard. Absolutely. Don't think you paid off a judge, though, because that seems like a very reasonable judgment that you should have visitation. Correct. So Deidre freaks out over this custody ruling that has come down. Not even custody, visitation rights. Right. And then Lonnie died before he ever got his first visitation with his son.

It seemed pretty clear to detectives that they needed to speak to Deidre Griffin. Yeah. In the meantime, though, detectives had been reviewing the video surveillance footage that they had recovered from that security camera that had been found at Lonnie's home. And the video showed

that on the morning of June 19th, Wanda left the home just before 7 a.m., just as she had said, and that Lonnie had followed very closely behind her. He'd left just a few minutes later. And then there was no activity at the home until 2 p.m. that day. At that point,

at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, an unknown person who appeared to be a black woman, short in stature, matching the basic description of Deidre Griffin. I love that you'd said short in stature matching the basic description of Deidre Griffin I love that you'd said short in stature what should I have said I love that you didn't just say short short in temper and short in stature so this unknown person arrived no we know who it is Lonnie's house well okay this person, this person, though, was attempting to disguise themselves. They had on tan shorts and a tan shirt and a big floppy tan hat

covering most of their face. It was very clear. Like, you could not see the person's face clearly, but it was very clear that it was a black woman and that she matched the general description of Deidre Griffin. Also, she had a key to the house. Yeah.

Let herself in. I mean, I don't mean to tell you how to do things, but I feel like you're showing up. Wouldn't it be much easier to wear men's clothing? Because the surveillance footage isn't going to be too clear. I will say I think maybe she made an attempt at that because the shorts were very unflattering. They were way too long. Well, you're just being rude.

Well, you made it sound like she had some cute monochromatic look going on. Oh, I get what you're saying. Like a matching set situation. I don't think the pants were quite. Okay. All right. I got you. I think it was an attempt at a disguise.

Can you smell how bad my breath is right now? No. Okay. All right. I got you. I think it was an attempt at a disguise. Can you smell how bad my breath is right now? No. Okay. This is how you feel every time you eat a Caesar salad, though. That's because Norman has made me very – everyone – one of the few things I love on this earth is a good Caesar salad. Yeah. And Norman can smell a Caesar salad on me for like 24 hours. Yeah.

I will have one at lunch separate from this man. Yep. And he'll know. I will come up to him hours later. We'll have a smoochy smooch. And he'll say, you had a Caesar salad for lunch. Sure. And I'm ashamed.

Anyway, continue. So it was not a monochromatic wonder. I mean, it was, but it wasn't like a cutesy matching set. All right. Gotcha. Okay. So this person shows up at the house about 2 o'clock in the afternoon, lets themselves in the front door, and then for like two and a half hours there's no activity at the house. Then eventually the footage showed Lonnie returning home from work.

His van pulls in the driveway. He gets out, goes into the garage. And then like five minutes later, the mystery person from the footage earlier exits through the front door carrying a bag of items and wearing a black latex glove on one hand. Oh, wow. Mm-hmm. And the person leaves the property.

Was her car in view at this point? Nope. Wow. So she did think of one thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, this is ridiculous. Yeah.

Yeah. Uh-huh. I don't think we need a license plate scanner. You. Yeah. I don't think we need a license plate scanner. You're right. I know. I think we can solve the case right now. But anyway, once they see this footage and based on the information

they had been given from Wanda and Lonnie's brother at this time, they decide it might be time to make a trip to Bay City, Michigan. And so the two detectives do that. They go on July 4th, 2015, they go to Bay City, Michigan, and they knock on Deidre Griffin's front door. She's having a cookout because it's the 4th of July.

Oh my God. And- I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but like- because it's the 4th of July. Oh my God. And, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but like, you murdered, well, I mean, it's been,

it's been a couple weeks since she murdered someone at this point. well then who cares? Let's have a party. Yeah. Yeah. So,

so that's, wow. Yeah. So they knock on Deidre's door. She lives with a bunch of family members. She lives with like a sister-in-law and I don't know who else, but several family members live in this house. And she comes to the door and they're like, hi, you know, we're investigating the death of Lonnie Paye Jr. Are you aware that he passed away? And she says yes, that Lonnie's stepmom had called and told her. Lonnie's stepmom had called and told her.

Yeah. And she also says that she had thought something may have happened because she went to the police station on June 25th to meet up for Lonnie's visitation. That's what they had arranged to do a handoff. And Lonnie had never shown up. So she'd waited for a few minutes and then she'd just gone home with her son. Mm-hmm. Did she call him at all? No.

Seems like you'd call. Also, a little later in the investigation, Deidre's sister-in-law, who lives at the house with her, came forward and told the police that she knew that Deidre had done something. Because when she'd gone to the police station that day for the handoff of her son to Lonnie for the first visitation. She didn't take her son? She took her son, but she didn't take any of his stuff with her. She didn't pack a bag for him. She didn't pack diapers. She didn't do anything. She's like, I knew then.

Yeah, of course. She knew there was no chance that he was going anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So they show up at Deidre's house and they're like, you know, we'd like to take you to the local police department to get an official statement with you. You know, your name has already come up a couple of times in this investigation. We've been made aware that you guys were going through some kind of custody battle. So we'd like you to come and answer some questions.

And so she did. She was cooperative. So we'd like you to come and answer some questions. And so she did. She was cooperative. She came down to the police station and she said that she had actually been in Baltimore in June, but that she had been there on June 16th and 17th for a job interview at Johns Hopkins Hospital. So, OK, Deidre's a very impressive woman as well. She has like a ton of schooling. She has a bunch of training in like microbiology. She worked in hospital administration. You're kidding me. No, she's a very impressive woman with a very impressive

history. That is one of the things that just boggles my mind about this case, how such an educated woman can make such a wild decision. Absolutely. Well, and you know, you put she put a lot of thought into it. She had to drive all that way. And oh, my gosh, there's so much thought put into this. Just wait. OK. OK.

So she says, yes, I did happen to be in Baltimore in June. I was there. I flew in on the 16th for a job interview at Johns Hopkins. I rented a rental car while I was there, but I flew back to Michigan on June 17th. So she's like in and out in two days and she's back in Michigan while Lonnie Paye Jr. is still alive. Right. So this interview doesn't really turn up much information. Deidre, in fact, kind of denies that there was any kind of custody battle. It was just about, you know, making sure that the arrangements were made through the court and everything was court ordered and she was totally ready to comply. Everything was fine. She showed up at the police department that day. Lonnie's the one who didn't show up like for the handoff and whatever. So the detectives go back to Maryland and they decide that they're going to obviously look into Deidre's alibi. Did she come to Maryland? Was she in fact gone by the 17th?

And so they found out that she did have an interview at Johns Hopkins that she was present for. They confirmed her flights through Southwest. She flew into Baltimore on the 16th and out of out of Baltimore on the 17th. They then went to the car rental company that she said she had rented a car from Payless Rental Cars and they checked the records there. And sure enough, Deidre Griffin had picked up a Jeep Cherokee at that rental place on June 16th, and she had returned it on June 17th. The guy at the counter, though, did remember that there was something a little odd when Deidre returned her rental car. What was it? She told him that the license plate had been stolen. That is weird. Mm-hmm.

And so they were like, okay, all right. And so then the detectives were like, okay, can you give us the license plate number that was, like, on that car when she rented it? And they checked the records and they did have it. And so they gave that information to the police and the police were like okay this has to be something yeah this has to be something yes also it's what you said this case was about it is you're right so then they're looking more into this alibi so Deidre had been very adamant that she had been out of Baltimore, out of Maryland on the 17th. She'd been back in Michigan that day. And so they checked her cell phone records to see if that matched up. Because I don't know if you know this. What is it, Brandy?

Cell phones go ping and cell towers go pong pong so we know your location all the day long that is beautiful it's poetry yeah sounds like someone really smart came up and hot definitely and so they find out that yes she made some phone calls while she was in baltimore on the 16th and 17th to a Baltimore area phone number. And so they're like, let's look into this phone number. Who's she calling? And it turns out that it was a storage facility in Randallstown, which is where Lonnie Paye Jr. lived. So they decided to head on over to the easy storage facility and check into that. And it turns out that Deidre had a storage unit in her name in Randallstown.

And that someone using Deidre's code had accessed that storage unit on June 16th. And then again on June 18th. So they asked to see surveillance footage. And so they did. And they narrowed it down to the times where that access code had been entered to the unit that was in Deidre's name. And they found that at some point on that video, it showed Deidre driving up on the 16th in her red Jeep rental car and accessing the unit.

And then on the 18th, it showed a different car driving up. Same license plate, though. Well, so this was like a tan Chevy Malibu that pulled up. She loves tan, doesn't she? She sure does. Stopped outside of Deidre's unit and someone, a short black woman, got out of the car. Short in what way? Short in stature.

Thank you. You're welcome. Got out of the car. The surveillance footage is a little grainy, so it's difficult, again, to make a positive ID, but matches the general description of Deidre Griffin. And that person entered the storage unit and came out and knelt down behind the car, appeared to be removing a license plate and affixing a different one. So they're like, what the fuck is happening here? The fuck is happening here? They also noticed in her cell phone history that her cell phone was active in Baltimore on June 18th and 19th, despite the fact that she had told the detectives that she had for sure been back in Bay City, Michigan by the night of the 17th. Yeah.

Back in Bay City, Michigan, by the night of the 17th. Yeah. So Detective Massey, he's like the lead on this case. And he is like, what is going on with this license plate? Like, what's the game here? What is she doing? And so Detective Massey decided that he would use some cutting edge technology that the police department had. So all of the Baltimore City police vehicles are fitted with automatic license plate scanners. So anytime a police vehicle is driving, it's scanning every license plate that passes it

and it logs the number and the location where that number was scanned. And so he decides he's going to search the logs for that license plate number for the license plate that was supposedly stolen off of the rental car. And so he puts it into the system to look for a match. And sure enough, they found that that license plate number was scanned about a mile and a half from Lonnie's house on the morning of June 19th. Yeah. So then they searched Lonnie's license plate number and found that it was scanned at that exact same intersection like one second before. So Deidre had most likely taken that license plate, transferred it on to this Chevy Malibu and followed Lonnie that day to make sure that he'd gone to some kind of work site. And then when he arrived at a work site, she'd then driven back to his house

and laid in wait for him. Yeah. When they were able to narrow down this time and this place where these license plates had been scanned, they then located a local Dunkin' Donuts that had a surveillance camera right in that same area. And it captured on video Lonnie's work van and then a tan Chevy Malibu following directly behind it. So they're piecing this together now that like this had been a very elaborate plan.

She'd come for this interview that was probably just a setup. Elaborate but stupid. Yeah. that's what i don't understand i guess that's why i'm so surprised at how well educated she is like yes it's elaborate but like did she not realize she was being video i think she didn't realize that there were surveillance cameras everywhere well no i mean i'm just talking about the one on his house. Right. No, she had the floppy hat on, Kristen. Well, that's not going to do shit.

It's going to do something. It's going to do something. It's going to do something. But it captures you using a key to enter the home. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. And, like, everybody knew Deidre had a key to Lonnie's house because they lived together. Of course. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. And, like, everybody knew Deidre had a key to Lonnie's house because they lived together.

Of course. Yeah. She did officially say that she had returned the key to him, though, when she'd moved out. Okay. In her official statement. I'm sure she did say that. Yeah. She said she no longer had a key to his house.

So, you know, that's, you know, worth whatever. Yeah. longer had a key to his house. So, you know, that's, you know, worth whatever. So when detectives had been looking into Deidre's alibi, they had checked her phone records. They'd found, you know, her phone had been active in Baltimore, even though she said she was in Bay City, Michigan. At that time, they also noticed that around that same time, she had made several calls and texts to a specific number. And upon further investigation, they learned that that number belonged to Martin Hodder. So they tracked him down. Martin Hodder was Deidre Griffin's brother's best friend, like since childhood, basically.

And he said when they when they tracked him down and questioned him, he said that like sometime around June 13th, that Deidre had reached out to him and asked him for a favor. She said that she had a job interview in Chicago and that she needed to rent a car to drive there, but her credit card was maxed out and you have to put a credit card down when you rent a car. And so she was like, can you rent the car for me? And then I'll pay you cash. I've got the cash, but I don't have any room on my credit card to rent the car. And so he'd been like, no problem. And so he had gone on Wednesday, June 17th and rented a tan chevy malibu for deidre he said that i'm starting to think she did this i'm sorry this is the most airtight case i think i mean you've ever seriously seriously

so he goes he rents on the 17th he rentss a tan Chevy Malibu. Wow. You do somebody a favor. No fucking kidding. Right. Yeah. So he goes and he rents it in Michigan and he lets Deidre know, Hey, I've rented the car. And she's like, I'm not, I'm out of town for this other job interview. I'm not quite back in town yet. And she's like, can you just park it somewhere, Not quite back in town yet. And she's like, can you just park it somewhere? Leave the key under the mat and I'll come get it when I'm in town. And he's like, yeah, that's fine.

So he parks it like he gets it from the rental place. He like drives it around the corner, parks it in a parking lot, puts the keys under the passenger seat, like rear passenger seat floor mat, takes a picture picture of the car sends it to Deidre and it's like here's your car and she's like great thank you so much I'll get you the money and he rented that car from Wednesday June 17th through Sunday June 21st so by this point the detectives have put together that Deidre flew to Maryland under the guise of this interview with Johns Hopkins, which she did actually go to. But I assume that she scheduled it just to place her in Michigan. Yeah. So at that point. I'm sorry.

Yes, Maryland. At that point, she rented a rental car, took the plates off of it, stowed them in her storage unit. And then she flew back to Michigan so that she'd have an alibi, say she was in Michigan. She took the rental car that Martin Hodder had rented for her and drove more than 500 miles back to Maryland. And that other car went to the storage unit, got the stolen plates out of there and put them on the new rental car. out of there and put them on the new rental car. And then she went and followed Lonnie to make sure that he went to a job. And then she went to his home and laid in wait for him until he arrived home.

As soon as he arrived home, got into his garage and the garage door closed, she came out and she shot him and killed him. He was home for less than five minutes by the time she left his house, wearing a glove and carrying bags of stuff with her yeah so yeah this is a really strong case well and it'll just be stronger when they find some of the stuff that she took right okay so on 20th, 2015, the two detectives from Maryland returned to Michigan and they arrested Deidre Griffin for the murder of Lonnie Paye Jr. And at that time, they also executed a search warrant, they recovered a 9mm semi-automatic pistol, empty boxes of 9mm federal brand ammunition, and paper targets with the name of a local shooting range printed on them. So Lonnie had been killed with a 9mm bullet. And it had actually been federal brand ammunition that he had been killed with

but once they recovered this gun from deidre's home they did ballistics tests on it and it's not the murder weapon okay but the brand of ammunition matches and she had done training so they went to this gun range and they asked and they like spoke to this employee this This employee was really interesting because he's like, I'm really bad with names, but do you perhaps have a picture of this woman? Because they were like, do you know if Deidre Griffin has been here? And so they show him a picture and he's like, oh yeah, she started coming here back in October. She just bought a nine millimeter gun and she wanted to learn how to use it. And so I had taught her. He even had a picture of her like with her nine millimeter gun and he said yeah yeah he's like I totally remember her and he said actually you know what just a couple weeks ago she

was in here just getting a refresher on how to use use that nine millimeter oh gosh yeah so she had practiced with it starting in October and then just a couple weeks ago, so, you know, right before the murder, essentially, she had gone there for a refresher course on how to use a 9mm pistol. There was kind of a funny moment on this episode of Snap. Oh, I'm sure it was hilarious. Where Deidre's sister-in-law is talking about the moment that the police came to arrest her and she's like you know i was just sitting in the living room and i looked out back and i was like oh my there's a police officer with a shotgun and she's like that would be a carry shot yeah and she's like and then they just busted in the front door okay well i would shit yes i would shit my pants as well oh would you, I would in that instance.

I absolutely would. In that one instance only. No, there's multiple instances where I would shit my pants. Recording a podcast here with you is not one of them. We shall see. We shall see. You know, I think if I'd made you read those cue cards, you would have shit your pants. I probably would have.

cue cards, you would have. I probably would have. So obviously, at this point, they have put together the entire case against Deidre and they arrested her and she was extradited from Michigan to Maryland to stand trial for the murder of Lonnie Paye Jr. Why does your face look like that? for the murder of Lonnie Paye Jr. Why does your face look like that? This is ridiculous. Yeah. Her trial began June 8th, 2016. Also, that was a really rude question.

Well, you had like a look of concern on your face. Well, gee, you're telling a pretty fucked up story. No, absolutely. Absolutely. I wondered if I said something weird. No, don't look at me like that. Everyone, I smiled really big for her, which is apparently the normal thing when you're hearing about a murder story. I think this is really fast for this have gone to trial. It's less than a year after she was arrested. But like with this amount of evidence. Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

They did not mean to build a case against her. They had it already. In opening statements, the state laid out their theory that Deidre had killed Lonnie Paye Jr. because of a custody. Because I got stuck there. I said the D sound like too many times in a row. Okay. D sound like too many times in a row.

Okay. They said that Deidre Griffin had murdered Lonnie Paye Jr. as a result of a custody dispute over their young son. Did I say it really good that time? Well, you know, that second time I was listening for all the Ds and there were a lot of Ds. There's a lot of Ds in there. Custody dispute. Yeah. I can see how you'd get tripped up. Absolutely.

Deidre. There's Ds there too. You there. Custody dispute. Yeah. I can see how you'd get tripped up. Absolutely. D-DRA. There's D's there, too. You're very good at spotting D's. I'm sure you've heard that before. I put that in my special skills on my resume. Okay, sorry. I'm going to be serious now. Yeah. OK, sorry, I'm going to be serious now. Prosecutor Garrett Glennon told the jury that the state would present a mountain of evidence against Deidre Griffin at trial.

He said, you're going to be left with no doubt. the jury all the stuff that I already told you, how Lonnie and Deidre had broken up before the birth of their son, how a Michigan judge had granted Lonnie Paye Jr. visitation rights, and how Lonnie had died before he'd ever gotten to have that visitation. The prosecutor told the jury that Deidre had flown from Michigan to Baltimore for a job interview where she'd done the switcheroo with the license plates. And then she'd taken the license plate and then she'd flown back to Michigan and then driven back in that rental car that her friend, her brother's friend, had been nice enough to get for her. Yeah, really sweet of her to do that to him. Yeah.

sweet of her to do that to him. Yeah. The prosecution played that surveillance footage from Lonnie's home for the jury where you could see a black woman about the same stature of Deidre entering the home on June 19th with a key and then leaving less than five minutes after Lonnie Paye Jr. had arrived home. And then all of the police testified, the sister-in-law testified about the watching Deidre go to the handoff and not bringing any stuff with her. The rental car place guy testified about how she'd returned to the car without the license plate. All of the stuff I already broke down for you. Yeah.

When it was the defense's turn, they did the best they could to try and bring down the prosecutor's case. They said the state's entire case is circumstantial. Tyler Mann, the defense attorney representing Deidrere Griffin said it's not true that she killed him and it's not true that they had a custody battle he said that the footage that they were being shown by the state was grainy and that the state could not prove the identity of the woman depicted in it he simply said it's not my client. I think that's the best you can do, honestly. It's kind of the only thing, right?

I mean, what else are you going to say? Yeah. Yeah, that's basically all they did. They pointed out that all the evidence was circumstantial. They said that there's not a bit of physical evidence tying Deidre to the scene. Sure. They don't have her fingerprints there.

They don't have DNA there. They don't even have the murder weapon. The gun that Deidre owned is not the murder weapon. And the state admitted that. They admitted like, yes, this is not the murder weapon. We don't know where the murder weapon is. What we do know is that Deidre purchased this gun and learned how to use it and that we believe that that was done intentionally so she and learned how to use it and that we believe that that was done

intentionally so she would know how to use a similar gun when it came time to kill Lonnie Paye Jr. trial lasted a couple of weeks couple of weeks yeah all right maybe like a week and a half like 10 days that okay um and the jury found Deidre Griffin guilty. Yeah. And she was sentenced to 60 years in prison. She has appealed her conviction based on ineffective counsel, which was dismissed. She also appealed on an interesting point. I read through the appeal on this.

So one of the jurors sent a question to the judge during deliberation. He asked, does Maryland have the death penalty? And he said, I cannot reach a conviction in this case if I know this person will be put to death afterward. No, this person will be put to death afterward. And so there was a big conversation between the judge, the defense and the prosecution at this time about how that question should be answered. Marilyn does not have the death penalty. Deidre was never facing the death penalty. Right. But the defense wanted the judge to answer that by saying, no, Marilyn does not have the death penalty. But the prosecution is likely seeking life in prison without the possibility of parole. That's what the defense wanted the judge to tell this juror.

Yeah, that seems fair. be told to this juror, the juror should just be told that Marilyn does not have the death penalty because at this point, a juror should not be considering punishment. This is not a penalty phase. They should only be considering guilt or innocence. And so the judge decided to answer it by saying, no, Marilyn does not have the death penalty and you are only to be considering guilt or innocence at this time. And so Deidre appealed saying that the judge erred in giving that explanation and not going as far as the defense wanted them to say, you know, but the

state will be seeking life in prison without the possibility of parole should she be found guilty. But the appeal court said that the judge did without the possibility of parole should she be found guilty. But the appeal court said that the judge did not err. He gave the proper response. And so her appeal to this point has been denied. And that is the story of the murder of Lonnie Paye Jr. and license plate readers. Wow. It makes me want to know a lot more about their relationship. And Lonnie was almost 50.

And so they dated for about four years in total. And it seems that that was very pretty casual in the beginning. And then at some point Deidre came and lived with him. And it was shortly after that time that she got pregnant. And because she only lived with him for a few months. They said maybe like four months. OK. Out of that four year period. So yeah.

That was wild. Okay. Out of that four year period. Hmm. So yeah. That was wild. Yeah. It is so interesting to see someone who is, I mean, described by everybody as being super intelligent and very educated. Yeah. Do something so stupid. Yeah. And she did put a lot of thought in it. She took a lot of steps.

But, you know, sometimes really brilliant people don't have kind of the common sense stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That us non-brilliant people have. Me? You know what I'm doing?

I'm looking for surveillance cameras. Absolutely. Well, you know what I say. What? It's time for another ad break. Oh, yes. And now we're back from the ad break. I won't sing to you because you don't deserve it.

All right. the ad break. I won't sing to you because you don't deserve it. Alright. Should we answer some questions from our Discord? Absolutely. But how the hell do you get in there? To get in the Discord all you have to do is join our Patreon. What just happened to you? I ran out of

air and so then I had to like suck it in and swallow real fast. Very good. All you have to do is join our Patreon at the five dollar level or higher and that gets you in the Discord where you can shitty chat the day away with other listeners and

when we record we ask for questions and then we answer some of them. Antiques Roadho wants to know, Kristen. That's a wonderful name. If Brandy peed her pants in a public place, would you try to clean it up or would you pee your pants in solidarity? Oh. First of all, I don't like the phrasing of would you try to clean it up.

It makes you seem very passive in that moment. I'm wondering why you weren't helping out okay it would all depend on the circumstances i what i picture myself doing for you in that situation is um lying my ass off like well we we gotta get going we got a thing and like maybe i boom get a tablecloth off of a table. Sure. And I wrap it around something. Maybe I take my top off and I wrap it around you and everyone just stares at my chesticles. Yeah, absolutely.

100% that's how you would handle it. You would throw yourself upon the sword because you would feel terrible for me because I would be horribly embarrassed. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I'm trying to think of a situation where I would pee my pants in solidarity with you. I feel like there is a scenario. I just can't come up with it yet. So the only solution is for you to randomly pee your pants in public from here on out and see at what point i join you you don't look like you're on board

with this at all i'm i'm just as not on board with this idea as i was for the idea that we would write scripts for each other i totally thought I'll just do it. It's the part of her writing something for me that she doesn't want to do. No, it turns out it was the whole thing you didn't want to do.

That's correct. Well, lesson learned for all of us. Ooh, Maya in Wonderland asked bubble tea. Yay or nay? Yay, of course. Oh, okay.

So. Oh, boy. Okay. David loves boba. Like we get it a lot, but I don't like the actual boba. And so I just get mine without. I like like the chunks of fruit and shit floating in there, but I don't like boba. Which is weird because I like tapioca.

The boba is the best part. No, thank you. Okay. That texture is so fucking weird like tapioca. The boba is the best part. No, thank you. Okay. That texture is so fucking weird to me. Very. Does it feel like you're eating a sweet little eyeball? Yeah. Yeah, I don't want it. Delicious. But I do like the teas. I just don't

want the boba in there. I'm sorry. I was half paying attention to my phone and half paying attention to you and I heard tea is like T-E-A-S-E. Uh-huh. Oh, I got it. All right. Yeah.

We're all on the same page now. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Fantasia Apologist says, peanut butter sandwich with or without butter. Ew. My grandma used to make this for me as a snack when I was a kid. She would take a piece. I have not thought of this for so fucking long.

Uh-huh. She would take a piece of white bread. Yeah. And she'd put peanut butter on half of it and butter on the other half, fold it in two, and that was like an afternoon snack. Gross. Peanut butter and butter sandwich. I mean, I'm sure it's good.

It's delicious. Yeah. Yeah. There's just something about it I don't like. Snowfeather wants to know, Kristen and Brandy, do you feel like you're Jean-Ralphio and his sister Mona Lisa from Parks and Rec bursting into songs all the time? 100%. 100%. Hell yeah. Yes songs all the time? 100%. 100%.

Hell yeah. Yes. All the time. I even like hold my hand up and like. Sometimes you do. I do. Just for the record, I'm John Ralphio. Obviously.

They knew. Ooh. BigOven634 wants to know my goodness yeah would either of you try psilocybin aka magic magic mushrooms you want you into hallucinogenics i'd have to google it first yeah i need to know i don't know anything about it. Hallucinogenics scare me. I mean, I feel it would just be a good time. It probably would. Yeah, I'd probably be down to try it. Unless it uncovered childhood trauma. Oh, fuck.

Yeah, I know. All right. Maybe I'm out. I'd probably try it. Yeah, I think I'd probably try it. Hot Dish Bish wants to know, have you ever recorded an episode that you decided not to release no but we have um written a script that we decided not to read everyone i had to stop when i got to the part where i was reading brandy's uh list of heroes

they included scott adams creator of dilbert and. Phil, creator of the wet spot in her underwear. Okay. Again, this is just a joke. It's not real. Or is it? It's not real. It's not real. What?

What? What? Fat ass that wants to know, have you ever taken something from your house that you don't want anymore and placed it in an inconspicuous place at someone else's home? I fucking love that. Have you done that? You've done that. Not exactly, but I did something along those lines one time. Okay. When I was... A district manager?

No, when I was 18 years old. Okay. Young, teenage Brandy. They had been doing some road work in my neighborhood and it appeared that the road work was done but they had left behind one of those flashing signs. You know the ones. You know the type.

With the diagonal orange and white stripes. Sure. And it's got a flashy light on top of it. So you stole something. I took it home with me one night. One night I was arriving home after working a late shift at the Walgreens. So there was no drinking involved? No, and no one was around and that sign was just sitting there a flashing and

so i brought it into my home and i put it in my bedroom okay well some amount of time later i went to move out of my parents home and i was like what the fuck do i do with this flashing sign you put it back out on the street i found a construction area and I just left it there. I love that you took it to a construction area. Yeah, I just borrowed it for a little while. Did your parents think it was odd that you had a construction sign in your room? I mean, I assume they said something about it to me at the time. And you sweated profusely. I mean, it seemed like a victimless crime. The sad thing is she actually took a stop sign that day. I did not!

A lot of people died. Absolutely not! So many people died. Oh my God! But she didn't care because she had a cool thing on her room. Because I'm a monster who loves Scott Adams and Dr. Phil. Well, you said it. Brandi, you really missed out.

I had you reading a list of your all-time favorite Dr. Phil quotes. Oh, my gosh. Probably best that... That is in the vault. Never to be seen by anyone. Okay. Where's T-shirt sometimes wants to know if you could establish any activity as an Olympic event, what would it be? Hmm.

I feel like you're ready for this. I know. What is it? I'm an Olympic level Googler. Okay. I want to hate this. But honestly, now that you're talking about it, I am thinking of a scenario where we have people solve mysteries. We're like, hey, can't figure this out. And then whoever, you know, gold goes to whoever figures it out first.

Or figzers it out. Figzer, whichever. While eating Fig Newtons. That's going to slow you down. But what if you wanted to prove that you're just that much better than the competition? Sure. That you like take breaks to eat Fig Newtons. Sure.

Why not? But I will say that does seem lame. Okay, great. What do you got? Drinking water. You know what I'd love to see? What? Synchronized trampoline jumping.

Oh, shit. That'd be amazing. Yeah, like routines. Fuck yeah. I think I just came up with the new greatest thing. That sounds amazing. That'd be so cool. I thought we had to pick something that we would compete at.

Oh. You're going to be. Did I misunderstand this? I don't that we would compete at. Oh. You're going to be. Did I misunderstand this so much? I don't think so. I think I did. Well, what am I going to compete in? Watch me drink multiple beverages. Yes.

You just did. I face planted into the mic just now. Hey, you think I just want water? I don't. This isn't coffee. Oh, look at that. I'm going to mix it up, have the mic just now. Hey, you think I just want water? I don't. This isn't coffee. Oh, look at that. I'm going to mix it up, have a hint water now. I see Fat Legs wants to know what's worse, shopping for jeans, shoes, or bras?

Well, first of all, shopping for shoes is awesome. No one's ever had a problem with that. Right? For shoes? Yeah. Yeah, no. Shopping for shoes is wonderful. Shoes don't make you cry

now jeans or bras bras are worse i think i agree yeah more complicated yeah and you're a whole different level of vulnerable vulnerable in a in a bra dressing room than you are in a jeans dressing room yeah why is why is that? Well, man, your tits are out, so. I don't know how you do it, Kristen. That's why it's always been so difficult for me. Unless you're getting your tits out when you're trying on jeans, too, and then I guess it's just about the same. I just get fully nude.

You're the reason they have to have that little strip. Oh, my God. That's a strip. Please keep your underwear on. But okay, I've always wondered about that. Like, people aren't trying on underwear, are they? Oh, I don't think so. Are they? That should be against the law. Yeah, I've never tried on underwear. Neither have I because we're normal, decent people. Hmm. Hmm.

How do you know what size underwear to buy then? Well, wait. You said you don't try it on. I don't. You just guess. Yeah. And sometimes you guess wrong. Yeah.

There's nothing worse than too tight underwear. Underwear that just like cuts in. Oh, fuck. That's the worst. If the leg isn't cut right. You ever bought underwear from Target? No. It's been years for me.

Their sizing. I mean, again, it's been like 10 years. Yeah. Their sizing. Way off. Way off. And again, it's like, well, I guess I'm shit out of luck. What kind of a cut you like on your undies?

Oh, thank you for asking. Yeah. Okay. Well, here's the thing. I do like a little bit of lace. Yeah. Along the top. Sure.

Sexy. Yeah. I like a bikini cut. Oh, all right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I've been trying to do more of like the higher-waisted high cuts. Yeah.

But man, that's a tricky business right there. Yeah, I don't like it. I don't wear that kind. Yeah, what do you wear? I do like a cheeky. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That'd be cute.

It's like little mini shorts. Mm-hmm. Boy shorts. Yeah. Yeah, it's not quite a boy short because it cuts. Kind of like a boy girl short no you got like the under you got the under butt

that sticks out the bottom yeah that's a boy short I have had both and I these are slightly different what do they call them they call them cheekies oh

I thought I was gonna stump you and you'd be like oh I guess and they do they have a little lace at the top and then lace on the legs, too. Yeah, that's real cute. Yeah.

And I only buy black underwear. Really? Yes. Okay. Why am I surprised? Of course. So David makes a point any time he sees me, like, in my bra and underwear. He's like, oh, matching set today, huh?

My underwear is all black. Like all of like literally every pair of underwear I own is black. And then most of my bras are black. I own one nude bra. And so I'm like, my underwear always match. And he's like, you know what they say. What do they say? When you wear matching underwear, it means you want to have sex.

And it's true because you're always horny. Non-stop. I guess that is a really great advantage. You're just always matching. I am always matching. You know, if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready. That's right. As RuPaul says. Which is why I go to sleep with my makeup on.

You're a mess. That's enough. No, for the record, I do not wake up with it like looking nice. I have to wash it all off and start over. We know you're just wild looking. That's right. What? Oh, my gosh. This is such a disturbing question.

What? Sarah with an H asks, people will not swim in a pool if there is one corpse in it. Yeah. But people swim in the ocean knowing that there are, in fact, many, many corpses in it. What is your acceptable corpse to water ratio? Hmm. I think, here's what I think matters. Visibility.

I think proximity also. I think matters. Visibility. I think proximity also. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Visibility, proximity. Sure. There we go. Yeah. Also, there's something about the ocean.

It's just so big out there. Yeah, exactly. Pool. Yeah, no, pool's small. Why is it echoey in here? Is it? Is that my brain malfunctioning? I don't think it's malfunctioning.

I don't think it's particularly echoey in here, though. All right, fine. That's cool. Do you hear those voices? I don't. N.E. Hooter asks, when one person messes up and the other says something about it and then you say, oh, thanks, now we have to leave that in. Why couldn't you just cut both the messed up sentence and the comment? I mean, that's true.

It is true. We could do it, but then we'd be depriving you lovely listeners of just comedy gold. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Oh, Lord. What? Ina McFly asks, would you rather go without shampoo for the rest of your life or without toothpaste for the rest of your life?

I got to pick shampoo. I think I could make do with body wash. It wouldn't be great for my hair, but I can't go without toothpaste. Well, I mean, people use baking soda and stuff, right? Oh, I'm sorry for even saying anything. Yeah. Could I brush and then do mouthwash? I just don't think I'm going to feel like I'm getting it clean. That's right. That's right. And you've already got a crusty butt because you refuse to use a bidet. My butt is wonderful. You don't need a crusty mouth too. I totally understand what youet my butt is wonderful crusty mouth too i totally

understand what you're saying brandy and i'm with you i'm with you okay lester d88 wants to know brandy have you identified anyone else from the discord with absolutely no prior and since the live weirdest thing that is the weirdest fucking thing. Yeah, you have to tell everyone what a weirdo you are. I am. I'm a fucking weirdo and I don't even know how. Okay. So after we finished our live show, several people came up and asked to take pictures with us. And so we're standing there.

Hundreds really. Thousands. And stop it. And we're, you know, saying we're meeting people. We're saying hello. We're taking pictures. And then this gentleman comes forward. And I have no idea why but

when i saw him i thought that's lester d88 from the discord and i said hey are you lester d88 from the discord and he was like oh my god yes how do you know that okay i i assumed that he must have a profile picture that i somehow like got in my memory he has no profile picture it's just the green little discord symbol and somehow from that you got a vibe i have no idea how i knew it was him everyone it was the weirdest thing For me as well. No, not for you as well. Yes, because I said it so confidently. You did. What made me, like what on earth made

me think that I knew who this guy was? And how was I right? You're a weird one. I am. Now, I was feeling good because I was recognizing people from their Discord pictures. Yes. It's a very normal thing. That is a weird one. I am. Now, I was feeling good because I was recognizing people from their Discord pictures. Yes. Which is a very normal thing.

That is a normal thing. Yes. I saw coochie twinges. I was like, I know her. Recognize her. Yes. But no, I... What?

I don't know. Okay. Sorry to creep you out. My sincere apologies. Comrade Kristen wants to know what's worse, a sock that has slid down inside your shoe or a bra strap that keeps sliding off your shoulder. You can't fix it all day. Oh, I got to go sock. You sock.

Yeah. Yeah. I think you just forget about the bra strap at some point. Well, you never forget. Hashtag. But you're just going to have to rely on that other strap to do all the hard work. Okay. If your bra fits properly, your straps aren't really doing anything anyway. All the support is coming from the band, ma'am.

But you wouldn't know this because you aren't wearing properly fitted bras. I will not be shamed by a woman who masturbates to Dr. Phil. You fucking stop it! And everyone, that's a true story. I didn't make that up to be hilarious. story. I didn't make that up to be hilarious. Okay, Rage and Rice wants to know, is Patty real? You know, we got a question about Patty at the live show. Yes. Okay, Patty, here's the deal. And I know you're listening because you have to. You have to. We pay you to listen patty i think a fun game would be you you give us two truths and a lie

about yourself oh yes don't you think that'd be a fun that would be fun yeah yeah it's like i feel i would feel weird like saying stuff about patty because i don't know what she's okay with us absolutely yeah no here i mean do we want to go into what we talked about the live show? Because someone asked the same thing. Yeah. Real at the live show. Yes. Patty is real.

Patty does real work for us. And we pay Patty with real money. But we we have not met Patty. Patty works remotely. So is she real? Yes, she's real. The one fact I can share is that she also loves Scott Adams and Dr. Phil. Okay.

She and Brandy talk about it all the time. Okay. Okay, this is a family show. Wants to know, would you rather go on a world trip with your husband or with each other? Why? Four-way trip. Sorry, that sounded weird. Double date trip. Sorry, that sounded weird. Double date trip.

Did you say double nip? There's a lot that went wrong. I do bring both my nips most places. See, that's you just always being prepared. Always got the black underwear, black bra, and both nipples on you at all times. That's cool. I bet you always have a pin, too. I don't have one on me right now, but there is probably one in my purse.

I just switched to a new purse, though, so maybe not. Do you have both your nipples on you right now? I do. Oh, that's good. Okay, great. Anyway, what was the question? If the person asked, would you rather go on a world trip with your husband or with each other? Why?

And I'm saying, let's get the four of us together. A foursome trip. Absolutely. Yes. Let's go on a cruise and be in the smallest possible room all together. No. We'll get the bunk beds. No. Norm and I get the smallest possible room all together. No. We'll get the bunk beds. No.

Norm and I get the top. I just think probably gravity would appreciate that. What if we pretend to fall on top of your boat and it's kind of obvious that we pretended? of your boat. And it's kind of obvious that we pretended. And we're like, oh, it'd be a shame

if something happened. Oh, while we're down here, we might as well have an orgy, right? Oh my gosh, what's this? A bottle of Malibu. I feel like that's the way orgies start, right?

With a bottle of Malibu? Probably. No, okay. For the record, I would love a couple's trip with all four of of us but i demand we have our own rooms wow wow you know it's not really a trip if i don't accidentally see someone's butt and i've seen my husband's butt plenty so you know Husband's butt plenty, so, you know.

Ooh, Coochie Twinges wants to know, Kristen, how's the rubber mulch going? Oh, my gosh. You're just living the life of luxury over here with your rubber mulch. Everyone, I am rich. I don't know if you heard, but I traded out the wood mulch. That was me spitting at wood mulch for rubber mulch. I fucking love that shit. Yeah put yeah and the dogs love it all over it what what am i thinking of i don't know i'm thinking of god this is so stupid this is ridiculous this is my brain

short-circuiting okay but you remember in the brady munch movie that came out in like the 90s sure there was some line where like mr brady's like the girls love it the boys love it carol loves it for why they okay yeah is that about meatloaf is that why they're meeting meatloaf no it's why they don't want to sell their house, right? Isn't that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's what I was thinking. With the rubber mulch. Woo! I love it. Norm loves it. The dogs love it.

We just love it. Ooh, I like this question. My dad is here. That's from the live show. That's a rough question from the live show. That's a rough version of the live show. Okay, I want to tell you. Yeah. My mom on Sunday, she was like, oh, you know, that show was so great.

And Brandy did the thing that comedians do where they do that. I don't think she called it a callback. I think she said she circled back to a funny line. It just got funnier and funnier. So I want you to know that Sheree Ray sees your comedy and she appreciates it. Thank you, Sheree Ray. I appreciate it. Anyway, my dad is here.

He said, what do y'all consider your bedtime? If I'm up past 930, it's a wild night. What time do you go to bed? Oh, man. I've been made fun of recently for this. Are you going to bed early these days? I'm not necessarily falling asleep early, but boy, oh boy, do I like to be in my Jimmy Jams by 7. 7?

Hey, just jammies. I'm still up and moving around. Okay. Are we talking about that big oversized peach thing that you got for me? Peach thing? Oh. Were you picturing like an outfit that looked like a peach? I'm talking about that sweatshirt thing you got for Christmas.

Why are you laughing? Because it looks ridiculous. That's my lingerie, Brandy. It's also like flesh color. Yeah, which is what makes it so sexual. It is knee length. It has a hood. It's long sleeves.

It's velour, so it's nice to feel. Yeah, sure. Sure, sure. Let me tell you. Put on nothing underneath that, that's a wild time. Anyway, no. Jammies by seven sometimes. Okay, okay.

You know, maybe around 8 o'clock I start the old skin care routine. Maybe I do a load of laundry or whatever. You know, I'm just kind of winding down. Absolutely. Winding down. Sure. And, yeah, I might be in bed by 9.30. Okay.

I don't like that look on your face. Well, okay, London goes to bed at 8.30. So, like. So, she's also maybe in her jammies by 7. 7.30. At 7.30 London gets in her pajamas and then she has to pick up all of her toys. And then once her toys are picked up, she gets

some tablet time. And then we read books. And then she gets her hair taken down. She brushes her teeth. And then she goes – she's in bed at 8.30. I mean that sounds like a great routine. Yeah. But then like – then I have to wind down after that. So usually we go up to bed about 10.30.

Wow. I always am like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if we went up to bed early tonight? Wouldn't it be cool? Yeah. Like what if we just went up and like watch TV in bed for a little bit? But then it doesn't happen that often because I get like doing something else or we watch a show. You know, you can watch a show upstairs in your bedroom. We could.

That's your big fantasy. You can make it happen. Here's the problem is that once you get in your jammy jams and you get in that bed. You might fall asleep. I fall asleep. This is true. This is my favorite thing to do is to watch a show and like David will be kind of like propped up in bed a little bit and then I lay with my head on his chest and then inevitably

he nudges me and is like are you sleeping and then i have to wipe the fucking hate that i have to wipe the drool off of his chest do you get annoyed no because i do have to admit that i was dozing because that's like my favorite spot in the world to lay and i fall asleep like immediately when I get to lay there that's really sweet yeah here's a less my comfort spot sometimes Norm and I will be in bed yeah we'll be watching something yeah and I'll be drifting drifting and I don't want to stay awake yeah I'm happy to sleep yeah absolutely but you know know what he does? He does one of these. One of the looks.

He like sits up a little and looks at my face, which wakes me up every time. Just knowing he's peeping at me. He's peeping at you. Which, as someone who was the victim of a peeper, you wouldn't think that he'd do that. Everyone, have we told this story on the podcast? Yeah, I think Norm told this story on the podcast. Yes. Yeah.

He was peeped at through a bathroom stall at work once. After he specifically said, occupied, when someone knocked. We found out years later it was his close friend playing a prank on him. Traumatized the young boy. You think we should wrap this puppy up? Yeah, let's wrap it up and do some Supreme Court inductions. Calm down, please. Sorry, I thought you were going to jump in and also be excited about it.

And I thought you were going to do the wah, wah, wah noise. But nothing happened. No, I've recently been heartbroken because people don't like my noises. It's so fun. You know, hey, I've got an idea. If you're one of those people who's like, I don't like it when she does the do, I encourage you, do it. Because you think they're going to find it so fun. Yeah, they're going to be like, oh, shit. Oh, shit.

That's a fun to say. Now that I've said that word, I can't stop saying it. Sure. Sure. All right. Well, we're. Any hooters. What we're doing.

Wait, aren't I supposed to get a new person in here when I say that? I'm sorry. You're stuck with me. Although, today would have been an ideal day to swap me out with someone who had a case that they were going to read. Never. I never want anyone but you, Kristen. Thank you. All right.

To get inducted on this podcast. You hadn't said all those offensive things, though. Stop it. Anyway, to get inducted on this podcast, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $7 level or higher. We are continuing to read your names and your first celebrity crushes. Cecilia. Brian Luttrell. Freshie Beth. Davidilia. Brian Littrell. Freshie Beth.

David Bowie in Labyrinth. And people just... Okay, The Bulge. Like, The Bulge was real. Huge. Pornographic. My goodness. Obscene. I'm gonna have to watch this film.

Have you never seen Labyrinth? No. Oh my gosh. Well, I don't watch movies just for the bulge. What about The Power of the Babe? I have no... Babe Ruth? Anyway.

Michaela. What? Niall Horan from One Direction? This is a very famous person. What's this person no one's heard of? Niall Horne? Hugely famous. I'm sorry, Niall.

We sure it's not Neil? I'm positive. Chris E. Hainer. Christina Ricci. Marcy. Sean Cassidy. Rachel Santafamia. Lindsay Lohan. Jillian Razzle Dazzle Brazzle.

Elijah Wood. Pre-Lord of the Rings, I bought the Flipper VHS the day it came out. Oh, I forgot that he was in Flipper. You know who didn't forget is Jillian. Jillian did not. Jillian Razzle Dazzle Brazzle did not forget. I always think of the first thing I saw. Well, not the first.

Okay. He was in this horribly sad movie called Radio Flyer. Does someone get on a radio flyer wagon and die? Does someone fly away from an abusive home on his radio flyer? I saw it when I was a kid. That could not be the plot line at all, but that's what is in my head. Okay. Also, he was in the movie Forever Young. You ever seen that? That could not be the plot line at all, but that's what is in my head. Also, he was in the movie

Forever Young. You ever seen that? That might not be what it's called. Fuck. Ma'am, we're in the middle of Supreme Court. It's got Mel Gibson in the lead. How is he still getting work? Well, he's not because this movie is one million years old. No, I'm just saying I saw a preview the other day.

Oh, yeah, he is. Yeah, he's still in stuff. How? Anyway, in this movie, he saw a preview the other day. Oh, yeah, he is. Yeah, he's still in stuff. How? Anyway, in this movie, he's like cryogenically frozen. And then he gets unfrozen. It is called Forever Young. I didn't make that up. And then he ends up in Elijah Wood's treehouse. Anyway, he was a fighter pilot in the war.

Mel Gibson was? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Mel Gibson ones? Yeah. Okay. Anyway, I don't know where I was going with any of that, and I apologize sincerely.

Brandi Reisner. Don't you think it's funny that his whole thing was like, Jewish people control Hollywood and blah, blah, blah, blah. But he still has a job in Hollywood. Blah, blah, blah, blah. But he still has a job in Hollywood. I think it's weird when the anti-Semitism, they go for something that just, you know. Yeah. I'm sorry, dude. Yes. If you're going to say that, now you have to completely bow out.

Correct. Anyway, where were we? Where were we? Brandi Reisner. Brandi had a crowd. Oh, Joey McIntyre from New Kids on the Block. Oh, you know that one? You familiar with Joey McIntyre from New Kids on the Block. Oh, you know that one? You familiar with Joey McIntyre?

Yeah, because I study the pop culture from your generation. I'm actually very young and hip. I just don't have a cell phone. Anyway, Andrea Green. Oh, also Joey McIntyre from New Kids on the Block. My goodness. Brianna Berlemont. Daniel Radcliffe.

Susan W. Jon Bon Jovi. I wrote and invited the entire band to stay at my house when I was in elementary school. I never heard back. I think they are just getting through their mail now, Susan. They're going to show up soon. Yes. Better put on some stew.

Some stew for Bon Jovi. Well, you don't know when they're going to show up. So you put on a nice stew. I don't mean to tell you how to do these things, Brandi. Clearly you've never entertained pop stars. Michaela Summerfelt. Raphael from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Sure, absolutely. Ninja, ninja rep. Anna Nicole. Devin Sawa in Now and Then. Absolutely. Abby Gray. Johnny Depp. Welcome to the Supreme Court.

Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. There you go. There you go. Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon.

Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And then head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a five-star rating and review. Then be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia.

So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from real life that Brandi doesn't have the courage to admit to. I got my info from an episode of Snapped reporting for the Baltimore Sun, MLive.com, and the court record. For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go. Read their stuff.