Let's Go To Court! - 253: A Black Guy & a Disappearance

Episode Date: May 3, 2023

When Mike Golub’s ex-girlfriend, Shannon Floyd, asked him to pick up their son from her home, Mike had to be a little taken aback. In the years since they’d broken up, Mike had only ever been to Shannon’s home one time. Typically, Mike and Shannon did pick ups and drop offs at a neutral location. But that evening, Mike complied with Shannon’s request. He headed toward the home she shared with her husband, Chad Floyd, and was never seen or heard from again. Then Kristin tells us a story that had first responders scratching their heads. It was April 4, 1989 when Kim Hallock told police that she and her ex-boyfriend, Chip Flynn, had been robbed and kidnapped by a Black man. She said that she and Chip had been hanging out at a park when a stranger threatened them with a gun. He ordered the two of them into Chip’s truck, then got in with them, shifting gears, steering the truck and holding a gun on them as he made his way to a citrus grove. When the man parked the truck, Chip grabbed a gun that Kim had hidden underneath a pair of jeans. With his hands tied behind his back, he shot at the man. Though first responders found Kim’s story odd, the detectives who were assigned to the case apparently didn’t. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: 48 Hours “Crosley Green Comes Home”  “A judge ruled Crosley Green was wrongfully convicted – so why was he ordered back to prison,” by Erin Moriarty for CBS News “Two years after his release, Crosley Green is going back to prison,” by Brittany Shammas and Angela M. Hill for The Washington Post “Crosley Green, imprisoned for 31 years, says he’s the victim of a racial hoax,” by Erin Moriarty for CBS News “Sister testifies to suspect’s role in slaying,” by Robert Kohlman for Florida Today “Attorney: Parents’ deaths might affect man’s sentence,” by George White for Florida Today “Victim recalls night of terror during trial,” by Robert Kohlman for Florida Today “Convicted killer Crosley Green will remain in prison… for now,” by John A. Torres for Florida Today “Man returns to prison 2 years after his murder conviction was set aside,” by Bill Hutchinson for ABC News “Crosley Green’s last chance for freedom,” by Erin Moriarty for CBS News In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Justice in the Heartland” episode 48 Hours “Still missing: Stanton County 13 years later” by Kathy Hanks, The Hutchinson News “Michael Eugene Golub” charleyproject.org “Unfair take by ’48 Hours’” by Dan Monnat and Kurt Kerns, Garden City Telegram YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 45+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Pond. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll be talking about a black guy. And I'll be talking about a disappearance in a small town.

Everybody dies famous in a small town. Is that a country song? What do you think? Do you not know that song? Is it Miranda country song? What do you think? Do you not know that song? Is it Miranda Lambert? It sure is. I think it is. All right.

Do you know that song? I did lose confidence. You sure did. You know, a more polite friend would have just let that be. Let it lie on the file, as it were. That's not how we've been friends for 26 years. I was hoping to change it up. I like the dynamic where I make fun of you, but I don't like what it comes back onto me.

I am feeling goofy as hell. How about you, my friend? I'm feeling pretty good. Oh, shit. I forgot to take my extra Adderall. It's okay. Let's pretty good. Oh, shit. I forgot to take my extra Adderall. It's okay. Let's power through. Okay, great.

I think you guys are in for a wild ride, listeners. They're going to really enjoy it. You like tangents, do you? I've got a few. Great. You know. People are often complaining about the lack of tangents on this podcast. And really, I think you should have known that I forgot my medicine when I started singing Miranda Lambert at the top of the show.

It should have been a hint. So whose fault is it really? Wait, do you take extra Adderall when we record? So I have what is called a caboose, an Adall caboose and it's like you know how funky is your chicken how loose is your goose um yeah so i i have like you know get me through the day yeah like you know late afternoon i take the caboose yeah the day, my mom asked me how my caboose was doing, and I forgot that I told her I called it a caboose. Anyway, I was really.

Anyhow. We don't have to include any of that in there if you don't want to share that with the people. I insist that we share it. Oh, okay. And everyone, I insist that you not hit pause or choose another podcast. Or that 30-second skip forward button. Nope, don't you dare. Don't you dare do that.

Nope, nope, nope. Brandi, what you got in store for us today? I didn't talk to you about a disappearance. Do we want to plug our Patreon first, though? Oh, yes, yes, we do. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Dumbass.

Everyone, big things are happening on our Patreon. I have become a business cat, all right? Okay. Sorry to say. Brandi's still pooping outside the box. I'm in the box. I'm pooping in it. I'm the business cat here, folks.

And by that, I mean that now when we do our Zoom calls, we are doing giveaways, merch giveaways. Ooh, prizes. Prizes. Fabulous, fabulous prizes. What's the monetary value? Oh, gosh, millions. Well, that's false advertising, so don't do that. Or is it like, you know, a T-shirt that we sell for 25 bucks?

Yeah, it's probably that. Probably that. Probably a hoodie that sells for 50. Yeah. Probably when WinPressed, we can put a monetary value on it and it's not that big. But still, we're giving shit away. That's right. It's very exciting.

And all you have to do is give us money. So, hmm. At the $7 level or higher on Patreon. Also, you get all those meaty boy bonus episodes. There's 46 of those fuckers on there now. Oh, my God. You looked like your dad just then. Shut up. Shut up.

Shut up. You knew it, too, because you did the gasp thing. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's move on from that anyway. Well, much like my father, I should tell you, you should give us money. Patreon.com slash LGTC Podcast. Check it out.

Gotta put money away in savings. Support the show. I say. Brady, how are you going to spend your money? Brady, how much money do you make? What's the square footage of your home?

Let me ask you something what's the most you've ever spent on a pair of shoes oh shit i dp would not approve of the amount i've spent on shoes i know he wouldn't but he'd want to hear it so he could go oh and i don't even have like super expensive shoes but yeah i have a couple pairs that were like upwards of two hundred dollars my god yeah my god in the scheme of things that's not really that expensive of a shoe but i didn't realize that i was podcasting with a rich book i'm not i'm not rocking louboutins or anything mostly because i can't walk in heels but yeah it's not that the price is well prohibitive i will tell you what that there is a pair of louboutin flip-flops that have like little spikies on the thing no they look very cool they are four hundred dollars and i refuse to spend that on a flip-flop okay well i've got

great news for you because i've got a pair of Steve Maddens with your name on them. And I've got a hot glue gun and we can get some spikes. You're not going to know the difference. I think I will know the difference. If you can't tell, why should we? I'll say as I hand them to you. Size 11, me thinks. Yep.

Don't worry. Don't worry. I got you. Methinks. Yep. Don't worry. Don't worry. I got you.

I can't wait until I get outside and all the spikes fall off of them because the hot glue melts. Wow. That's just shoddy craftsmanship. Sorry. I'm so embarrassed. My Etsy store will have to close immediately. All right. You ready for me to get started?

I am. But you know what? You've done a lot of these disappearances. I know, this is like my third disappearance in a row. Yeah. It's a real bummer. Yeah, this one's also a bummer, so. Yeah, no, I know.

Okay. Yeah, I bet. This is different than my other disappearances, though. Does a person wind up dead? Yes, they do. I don't know, a person wind up dead? Yes, they do. I don't know. Listen and find out. I guarantee you they do. So it's all the same.

It's all tragic. It's all sad. Shout outs to an episode of 48 Hours. Let me tell you about this episode of 48 Hours. Okay. We're going to praise 48 Hours today. Hold on. Oh, you have a 48 Hours one, too? okay episode i read it but i also wanted to watch it okay what usually

48 hours i read and don't watch but this one i was like i think i i want to watch this and so it is available one place online it is available on zero streaming platforms uh-huh it is available one place online. It is available on zero streaming platforms. It's available on CBS's website only as a link through this article. However, something was fucking happening and it would play to the first commercial break. And then it would just start over. So I've seen to the first commercial break several times. Yeah. Because I tried it on several different pieces of technology.

Tried it on my computer. Tried it on my phone. Tried it on my tablet. Even tried to see if I could load it on my TV. The iPod, yeah. Yeah, anyway. And so I didn't get to watch it. I've only watched the first three minutes of it approximately ten times.

Thank you. I feel like I'm talking to an old lady who can't get her technology to work. Anyway, also shout out to the Hutchinson News. From Hutchinson, Kansas? Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Local-ish. Okay.

Oh, okay. I will tell you that I had no idea what I wanted to talk about this week, and so I googled Johnson County, Kansas murder to see if there were any that I hadn't covered. And instead, this case came up, which did not happen in Johnson County. But you just hold on to your little britches, and we'll get going here. Okay. Johnson City, Kansas or Johnson, Kansas, as it appears the locals call it, is a tiny town in the southwest corner of the state. Just 18 miles from

the Colorado state line, Johnson covers two square miles. It's real little. And it boasts a population of just over 1,400. It's a farming community and a close-knit one. Mike Gullib was just 16 years old when he moved to the tiny town from California. Johnson was the hometown of Mike's stepdad, Jim Hines. Johnson was the hometown of Mike's stepdad, Jim Hines. Jim might not have technically been Mike's stepdad when they moved there, but he was involved with Mike's mom, Deb. A little unclear of when they actually got married. But anyway, so Jim Hines was from Johnson City, Kansas, and Jim had met Mike's mom, Deb, in 1990 in California after her husband, Mike's dad, had died. And in 1994, they decided to relocate to Kansas to be closer to Jim's family.

Deb had a daughter as well, Mike's sister, Chrissy. She was a little bit older, decided to stay in California and not move with the family. So Mike and his mom and his maybe stepdad. Soon to be stepdad. Soon to be stepdad, yeah. Moved to Kansas. Mike was definitely an outsider in the small town and it wasn't necessarily a place that was super welcoming to strangers. I'm sure. Mike quickly earned the nickname California Mike,

which is not a particularly clever nickname, but it's what they called him. Were these? Okay, fine. Fine. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Were you going to say something mean about the teenagers in Johnson City, Kansas?

Yes, I was. But I'm going to stop. Because you know what? We're within driving distance from those fuckers. So I'm not going to say anything about how they're probably all **** anyway because there's probably five last names in that whole town. Okay. Anyway, we're going to just breeze on past that.

Patty, do we need to bleep it? Yeah, let's bleep it. We probably should bleep at least... It seems that at first people kind of thought Mike was a smartass. He seemed very full of himself, very cocky. How old was he when he came to town? Okay. Yeah.

All right. Seemed very full of himself, seemed kind of cocky. And he told all these stories about living in California that just seemed like bullshit. Oh, yeah. To the people in Johnson, Kansas. Like he's trying to be too cool. Yeah, that's kind of what they thought about him initially. And then like a group of kids, he kind of became friendly with him and they met Deb, his mom, and she kind of validated everything he'd ever said. And they were like, oh, my God, he's not full of shit.

Well, what was he saying? I don't know the specifics of it. That's literally all I know was that they thought he was telling kind of tall tales about living in California. OK, well, this could be really pathetic. It could just be like there are palm trees. I mean, honestly, yeah, probably movie stars. I just and the kids in Kansas were like, yeah, fucking right.

Yeah, I mean, I imagine that's probably what it was. Okay. And so once they kind of learned that, like, he wasn't full of shit, he wasn't honestly that cocky, he was just kind of a funny guy and kind of a nice guy they became more friendly with him he won over a lot of people including shannon and steve morris okay they were not married when they met they were like teenagers who were in you know a relationship and then they grew up to be adults who got married and so i don't know what shannon's maiden name was. Enough with the third degree, Kristen! Anyway. They soon discovered that beneath that cocky exterior was a heart of gold.

Wait, what? You've already said this. What? Well, we get it. We get it. Yeah, yes. You're just, like, hitting that point. Is this the first part before the first commercial break i've seen this part so many times you're saying it five times because you watched it five times i mean we we really get it anyway steve said he was a great

guy he'd give you the shirt off of his back hold on did they like him they liked him now oh yes i thought they thought he was a cocky asshole. Oh. No. Super funny according to his stepbrother, Bo Hines. They were like best friends. Bo Hines? Yeah.

Do you like that name? I do. I really do. Also, if you want to hear more great things about Mike, he was a hard worker. Great work ethic. Also, he was a skilled mechanic. He was a hard worker great work ethic also he was a skilled mechanic he was a hard worker who had great work ethic yeah that's wonderful yeah so rare to see both of those bow bow hides hinds hinds okay yeah like you know what i picture huh that's the type of

name you yell when you're on a dirt bike oh and you're going up yeah a hill oh do you think bo's yelling out his own name i do unfortunately i do okay i also think he might have it tattooed on himself okay speaking of tattoos mike has an odd tattoo and i'm wondering if this means something to you as the gaming historian's wife that just like went over my head mike has a tattoo on his right shoulder of sonic the hedgehog okay okay with the words milkman under it oh um yes that does actually mean something to me it does yes it oh shit i i want to say was that the original name for son or like there's some there is something okay should we ask the actual gaming historian yeah at some point at some point not right now i'm not stopping the recording no no

we're very busy right now. All right. All right. Good to know. It means something. Okay. Great. Glad we paused for that. So Mike, you know, settles into life in small town Kansas.

People like him now. He's a hard worker. We've covered it all. Everybody knows. And in 1998, Mike met another outsider, a young woman named Shannon Albers. Albers. Albers, I imagine. She was from Montana. She came to town with a harvesting crew. And so she kind of drove a truck for the crew and she prepared meals for them while they were out on the harvest. You know, why are you making that face at me? Because I'm a smartass and I want to know how you kind of drive a truck.

I don't know exactly what she did for the harvesting crew. The Hutchinson Times article said she drove a truck and another article said she was making food for the harvest crew. So maybe she was doing both. I don't know everyone i don't think she's prepared today i'm very prepared thank you uh and from the moment he met her mike was smitten with shannon they were kind of like fun loving together they like to party they got along pretty well in the beginning, but. How old is Shannon?

Same-ish age. So at this point they're. You got a 16 year old coming in? No, no, no, no, no. This is like four years later. Oh, I'm sorry. They're like 20 now. All right, all right.

Yeah. I'll allow it. So at first, like they're kind of hot and heavy, just having a good time. But that phase didn't last long. According to Mike's friends, Shannon had, quote, caviar taste on a hot dog budget. Oh. And she constantly complained about how Mike didn't make enough money. So things weren't great in that relationship.

Despite that, the couple did welcome a son in 2000 who they named Mikey. He was reportedly Mike's pride and joy. He loved being a father. He kind of fell into fatherhood very naturally. But having Mikey did not save the relationship between Mike and Shannon, obviously. save the relationship between Mike and Shannon, obviously. At one point when things were really bad in the relationship, Shannon called the police on Mike. This was toward the end.

She said that he had choked her. Police did come out and it seemed that there had been an argument, but perhaps both had been physical with each other. And according to Deb, this is Mike's mom. Mike had reached out to push Shannon away from him when she was trying to hit him and put his hand on her throat. No charges were ever filed as a result of this. What? Yes.

Okay. And the couple broke up. Shannon moved out and took Mikey with her. So, yeah, not great. I mean, however that actually went down is terrible. And there's a child involved. The couple broke up, went their separate ways, and worked out some kind of parenting agreement where Mike got Mikey like every other weekend. Okay.

Mike was devastated by the breakup. It wasn't what he wanted, but it seems like it was probably what was for the best for everybody involved. And it was a really hard time for him. And then a few years later at the age of 24, Mike had a heart attack. What? Yeah. Apparently he had like a genetic defect in his heart that he didn't know about oh

wow and he suffered a heart attack at the age of 24 it nearly killed him holy shit following his heart attack he had like this new lease on life he wanted to live life to the fullest. And he said that was this brush with death that made him think like, I need to focus on the things that are important in life. I think that he and Shannon had spent a lot of times fighting about, you know, what was best for Mikey. And he was like, I don't want to do that anymore. I just want to be present in my son's life, you know, however that looks best for Mikey. He also started dating a new woman around that time. Her name was Brooke Wilkerson, and they had like a great time together. They were always doing stuff. They went skydiving together. Mike's friends said that Brooke really like brought

Mike back to life following his medical stuff. Heart attack. Well, yeah. stuff. Heart attack. Well, yeah. In 2004, Mike and Brooke had a baby, a son they named Cameron. And it seems that things were going really well for Mike at this time. He was really happy. He was working some kind of job in farming and he was doing really well at it. His life was full. His sister said. What was his life full of? Full in general. His cup was full, Kristen. Are you going to do this the whole time?

I might. Sorry. His sister Chrissy said he was in love with Brooke. He loved his son Cameron. He wanted to be the father to Cameron and Mikey that he hadn't had in his life. His dad had died when he was fairly young. He'd had a stepdad, you know. And it seems that Jim was an important person in his life, but it wasn't his biological father. Gotcha. Sure.

And so, yeah, it was being a dad was really important to him. He and Brooke were like talking about getting married and all of this stuff and just things were going well for Mike. And Mike's former girlfriend, Shannon, she had also moved on. She was now Shannon Floyd, having married Chad Floyd, who happened to be from one of the richest and most powerful families in Johnson City, Kansas. What do you mean one of the richest? I mean. Like there's probably five families in this town, Kansas. What do you mean one of the riches? I mean... Like, there's probably five families in this town, right? Okay, so apparently, like, this is the family

that, like, owns everything in town. Okay. They have, according to one person that's quoted in the 48 Hours episode, like, they have all of the money in the town. Shit. Yes. Okay. Well, so champagne so champagne taste beer budget i mean

worked out okay yep so they own a group of banks in the area they own like a large farming company yes okay i mean they up like this person who said this like what like they have all the money in the town yeah um steve morris one of mike's friends, described Chad Floyd as very arrogant and self-righteous. He said he comes from one of those families, generations of a family that's been in this community forever. OK, so Shannon, Steve's wife, is the one who said the thing about them having all of the money. She said they have all the money in the community. They control the community. Everybody's lives absolutely revolve around them, their money, and what they do.

That is so gross. Also, I mean, have you ever met a good Chad? For real. Perhaps not. Steve went on to say, it's not that people are afraid of them like you would like it's not like they're the mafia or something but everybody kisses their asses and bows down to them no i totally get that yes it's a very small town they probably own a ton of buildings so you probably have to rent from them you like you need to be on their good side yep so shannon had secured the lifestyle that she wanted lots of people

on this episode called her a gold digger but well i mean okay okay okay i'm guessing she was super hot i haven't i honestly do not know what she looks like. Oh, okay. I would assume so, though. I just think, like, all right, people call women gold diggers. Yeah. But also, like, the women are always hot. Exactly.

The dudes are getting something. The dude knows what they're getting. Exactly. Yes. Yes. So Shannon had secured this lifestyle that she had wanted, but by marrying Chad, this had created more issues with Mike, custody issues with Mikey. So Mike wanted more time with his son.

And Shannon and Chad, like, really viewed Mikey as, like, their son and didn't want to share him with Mike. Wow. Cool. Yeah. With his father. Mm-hmm. All right. So under their initial custody arrangement, Mike was only allowed to see Mikey every other weekend. And he kept asking for more time. But Shannon and Chad were like, nope, this is the arrangement. And so Mike had started. Did they have the arrangement in writing? In writing. Yes, it was. It was a court ordered arrangement as far as I know. But so Mike was taking steps to file in court to get that looked at, get a new arrangement set up with a judge. And you know what? I'm I'm being kind of shitty about this, but like, yeah, we don't know what happened with that domestic violence situation.

So if if he was violent with her, then, yeah, I wouldn't want him around the kid either. I wouldn't want him around the kid either. Yeah. So Mike's like, OK, this is not going to work. In addition to this very, like, limited visitation he was getting with his son, Shannon also had very strict rules about, like, what the arrangement was when he would get him. Like, they had to meet at a neutral location, which is super common in custody arrangements. custody arrangements they met at a local and pride convenience store and that mike had to have the car seat properly installed whenever he was picking up mikey again no shit yeah was he outraged by that no they just specifically mention it in this in the yeah no that's that that seems like a good rule exactly exactly that was always arrangement. They always met at a neutral location. Only one time in Mikey's life did Mike pick him up from somewhere other than that neutral location. He had picked him up one time from Shannon and Chad's house, but it was on Mikey's birthday and Mike was picking him up to take him to like their family birthday party for him.

Okay. So that was until May 20th, 2005. On that particular day, Mike was working in the fields doing some kind of farming. I believe it was cutting season. And I know exactly what that means because I'm from Kansas. I don't know what it means. Anyway, so he's working in a field that was like 20 miles from Johnson City. That afternoon, Shannon called him and asked him to do something kind of weird. She asked him if that day when he came to pick up Mikey, if he could come to her house and get him rather than meeting at the neutral location. OK. And so Mike was like, yeah, that's fine. But work was running a little bit late. So around 6 p.m. on May 20th, 2005, Mike asked his boss if he could borrow the work truck

and go pick up Mikey and then he would come back. And his boss was like, yeah, no problem. So he borrowed a truck, left about 6 p.m. His boss was like, yeah, no problem. So he borrowed a truck, left about 6 p.m. The high school football coach reported seeing Mike at around 620 in Johnson on the corner of Lake and Logan, which, of course, I know what that means because I'm regularly in Johnson. That was about nine miles from Shannon's house. And that football coach was the last person to ever see Mike. Mike Golub has never been seen or heard from since. What the hell? He never returned to work. He never picked up Mikey that

day. Shannon told police he never came to her house. And then when he never came back to work or he failed to show up for work the following day, didn't return the truck that he had borrowed, his boss was like, this guy's super reliable. Like something has happened. So his boss, his name's Eric Kramer, he was actually a pilot and he had a helicopter. And so the next day when Mike is nowhere to be found, he gets his helicopter in the air and he starts searching for the truck. He thought that would be the thing that he could see. But he didn't find it. It wasn't until five days later that the truck was spotted like out in a field somewhere in a remote area outside of town. There was no evidence of any foul play. It was just the truck. No sign of Mike. Mike's missing. It makes, you know, the local news or whatever. Everybody's

talking about it. But the police are saying there's no sign of foul play here. We don't really know what has happened. OK. But Deb, Mike's mom, said she immediately knew. He would not just take off. Exactly. She immediately knew there was foul play from the beginning. She said the relationship between Mike and Chad and Shannon had become so contentious as they saw that Mike was moving forward with wanting to legally change the custody agreement that she said immediately she knew that Chad and Shannon had something to do with Mike's disappearance. And so she expressed that to the police and they were like, well, you know, we kind of

got to wait and see what's going on here. You could have just left town. And then they learned that Shannon and Chad Floyd were looking to leave Johnson. What? They had been looking at property in Colorado. They wanted to get out of Kansas. They had actually met with a social worker, a child custody worker is how she's described in this 48 Hours episode, asking about what the protocol would be if they wanted to move out of state.

And that custody worker had said, basically, with the way the law works, if you want to move out of state, you will have to give up your rights to Mikey. Yeah, you can't just take your kid out of state. Right. There has to be a custody arrangement in place and likely you will have to give up a large percentage of your custody to do that. My God, unless you kill someone. So they had learned this and then Mike Golub had disappeared. Oh. When the police learned this, they were like, OK, that sounds like a motive.

Yeah. That sounds like something bad probably happened here. And they knew they were in over their heads. So they called in the KBI, the Kansas Bureau of Investigation. OK. Yeah. So when they did that, Chad Floyd freaked out. Yeah, because he doesn't have control over them.

Correct. Mm hmm. Correct. His family's name doesn't mean anything to the KBI. Right. Yeah. So he was reportedly heard saying like, what? What the fuck are they doing calling in the KBI?

Hmm. Yeah. He freaked out. That is big. I mean, it takes. It takes a lot to be like, you know what? Yeah. This is beyond my skill set. Well, and I think that probably because we're talking about a member of this prominent family in this community, they were like, yeah, I don't know if there's a way for us to do this without them having control.

Right. And but even just calling in the state, that's that's standing up to that. Absolutely. Big. Absolutely. So the KBI started investigating and they started by looking into Chad and Shannon Floyd's financial records. Chad and Shannon Floyd's financial records. And they discovered that two weeks before Mike disappeared, that Chad had cashed in a $50,000 family business stock. Mm-hmm. So they. To pay a hitman.

Maybe. Definitely. be definitely or had it maybe been a fifty thousand dollar payment to mike so that he would just give up his rights to mikey and just get on out of town why would you have to get on out of town you know because it makes things easier with their with their custody arrangement if i mean in theory couldn't you just give him the 50K? To sign over his parental rights? Absolutely. He does not need to get out of town. And so since that didn't happen, I am right. Yeah.

So you're not right. So they find out they cashed in this $50,000 stock. So they go to the bank, which is run by Chad's cousin. Yeah, yeah. Cool. And he's like, yeah, they did. They did cash out this $50,000. I did ask Chad what it was for.

And he said that it was money to pay off Mike, that he would, in exchange for this $50,000, give up his custody and disappear. The KBI with this information then goes talks to mike's mom deb and she's like absolutely not like no amount of money would have had him give up his rights to his son like this is ridiculous they also doesn't he have another child yeah he has another child yes yeah yeah he's not just going to take off. No. They also then further investigated this $50,000, and it was eventually just redeposited into the Floyd's bank accounts, just in an out-of-state account. Well, what the hell?

Okay. It's a lie, Kristen, is what it is. They're not supposed to lie. Wow. So the KBI is continuing to investigate. They're focusing on Chad and Shannon, and they learn in the weeks after Mike has disappeared. That was so dumb, though. Why did they put it back in the bag?

Right. Yeah, it's really stupid. All right. Okay. Right. Yeah, it's really stupid. All right. Okay. Continue. Yeah. So they learned that just days after Mike disappeared that Shannon did a little home improvement project. Did she rip out a bunch of carpet?

No, she repainted the front deck. Oh, God. So six weeks after Mike vanished, the KBI went in and they dismantled that deck. They took it apart. And on the underside of the boards, the unpainted side, they found blood. Yeah. And when they tested that blood, it came back positive, a positive match to Mike's DNA. Yeah.

What they found on the underside of the boards looked like blood to them. When they did the testing on it, it was definitely genetic material. They couldn't say positively it was blood, but it was genetic material and it was Mike's DNA. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But how is Mike's DNA on the underside of these boards if he never showed up that day to pick up Mikey? Yeah.

It's a real mystery. Yeah. Shannon and Chad had also, just like a day or two after Mike went missing, replaced the front window of their house. So that KBI went and talked to the repairman who had replaced it, and he said, yeah, there'd been a hole in it. Oh, like a bullet hole? Maybe. Oh, my God.

Mm-hmm. And then they also learned that on the very day that Mike disappeared, Chad Floyd had bought an untraceable rifle from his cousin. Okay. Yep. So they put together a theory that they had lured Mike to the house that day. Yep. That they, Chad had laid in wait inside the house for Mike to come up onto the front deck and that as he stood there waiting for someone to come to the door, Chad had shot him through the window. Yep. And then they had disposed of his body somewhere. I think it's pretty solid theory. Yeah, that's definitely what happened. 100% what happened. Okay. Yeah. But for that to be true, we have to assume that Mike is dead. There's no proof that he's dead.

I mean, come on. Mm hmm. Is anybody using his credit cards? No. Yeah. No. No. No, there's no activity of any kind from him. Yeah. I think this is kind of interesting. The investigators never

questioned Mike's son, Mikey. He would have been five years old. So it would have been difficult. Yeah. But probably worth asking, did daddy come to the house that day? You know, something like that. But they never did for whatever reason. It is believed, though, that if this is really what happened, if the scenario that the investigators have put together is really what happened, they believe that Shannon left the house with Mikey that day and Chad stayed there and took care of all this. Yeah, yeah. While Shannon was not there. Yep. I'm glad they didn't ask him.

Yeah. I kind of am too. Yeah. Probably not worth the trauma to this small child. Yeah. It's funny. I didn't end up doing this case this week, but I was researching another case this week where a child who was six was questioned by police about her parents' relationship. Yeah.

And she kind of said stuff that was misconstrued. Oh, yeah. And then now she's got this regret. Oh, yeah. Her entire life. And, yeah, I do think if you can get away with not questioning a child. Yeah. Do it.

Yeah. They put together this theory. And so working on it, they do confront Chad about that rifle that he purchased from his cousin. But he turns it over to them. And so they determine that wasn't the gun that he used. That was all part of this elaborate plan. He wanted them to think that he'd used this rifle. And then he would turn it over and they'd be like, oh, this wasn't, you know, if he's willing to show us that it's not the gun he used. Turns out that Chad owned multiple guns.

Sure. Including a Glock that was registered to him. Mm-hmm. But was suddenly missing. He didn't know what had happened to it. Couldn't produce it. Okay. No idea where it went. Yep. Just got up and walked away one day. So yeah, that became the theory that he had used that Glock, that the whole thing with the rifle had just been, you know, part of this plan

to be like, yeah, we're willing to cooperate here. I'm going to turn over the gun and everything. right here. I'm going to turn over the gun and everything. And yeah. Yeah. When asked about the Glock during an interrogation under his lawyer's advice, Chad would not respond to the questions about it. They've put this theory together. I mean, it makes sense to me. It makes sense to you. Yes, absolutely. OK, so then they start looking into cell phone history between Chad and Shannon that day between 6.38 p.m. and 6.57 p.m., an 18-minute period. They exchanged 10 phone calls. Totally normal stuff. Yeah.

Yeah. So they believe that that's when the murder occurred in that 18 minute period that Mike showed up to the house. Chad shot and killed him and then quickly went to work getting rid of his body. Yeah. Perhaps they buried him in a field somewhere. Perhaps they, you know. They probably had something already planned, right? Well, yeah, we'll get there. But yeah, there's a lot of theories. They have access to equipment. They have fields available. There's also wells in rural areas. So they could have dropped them down an old well. Like there's just. There are a lot of options. A lot of options. Yes. And you have somebody with

a lot of resources. Their theory is that these 10 phone calls that are going back and forth during this very small amount of time is like, OK, so I've done this step. What's the next step? Going back and forth. So interestingly, when 48 Hours was filming this episode, the police would not cooperate with them at all. And so they brought in their own consultants to look over the information and kind of give their take on it. Because the case was ongoing. It was ongoing. Yeah. Yeah. And so the police would give no statements, no information. And so whatever was public information, they went over on this 48 hours episode. They brought in their independent consultants to look at it and say, you know, kind of what you think about it.

And their consultant says that they don't think that's what these phone calls mean. They actually think that that means like it would be very unusual if you've just pulled off a murder to be calling someone 10 times during that short of amount of time. Like wouldn't you be busy disposing of the body? Hmm. Yeah. So what do they think it means? Who knows? It's just that I think they were just kind of doing devil's advocate type thing. Like, sure, it could mean that.

Or doesn't that seem kind of odd? Like, wouldn't you be really busy for those 18 minutes or whatever? But if it's 10 calls over the course of 18 minutes, that to me, that's not 10 conversations you've had. It's trying to get a hold of you, trying to get a hold of you, trying to get a hold of you. I got to tell you that this thing happened. Yeah. I mean, that is one way. That's a possibility for sure.

Yeah. So this is 100% what Deb believes happened to her son. Yeah. And she was asked about it on the 48 Hours episode. They asked her, And she was asked about it on the 48 Hours episode. They asked her, so you honestly believe that this young couple commits murder over a custody fight and that they've preplanned it? Yeah.

And Deb said, yes. And the correspondent on the 48 Hours episode says, they must be master criminals. No one has ever found the body. And Deb said, oh, not at all. I think they're idiots. Who in their right mind would do something like this over a child? Also, I don't think it takes a mastermind to hide a body in a rural area. I agree completely.

If you're in the middle of New York City, okay, yeah. Yeah. That would probably be tough. Yeah. But you're talking about a place where people live really far apart. Yeah. You've got farming equipment everywhere. There are probably ponds and lakes and all kinds of places that you could put somebody. Yep.

Yeah. Mike's family had several theories about what could have happened to his body. I mentioned it briefly before. So they think they could have waited till dark and then gone to a field and buried him. Right. They could have dumped him in an old well. It could have been a pond. There are lots of, tons of possibilities.

Right. And this is a family that owns a lot of stuff. Right. Right. That's lots of resources. Yeah. So without a body, this case is really tough. It's entirely circumstantial. Yeah. So without a body, this case is really tough. It's entirely circumstantial. Yeah.

It fits together pretty well. You've got the painted deck. You've got the blood or the genetic material on the underside of the boards. You've got a broken window. There's a missing gun. You've got that weird $50,000 thing. Mm hmm. There's a missing gun. You've got that weird $50,000 thing. It took them a year, but eventually prosecutors did arrest Chad and Shannon Floyd and charged them with the murder of Mike Golub and the conspiracy to commit murder. Chad's dad bailed them out. They had a million dollar bond each. Wow. Dad's dad bailed them out. They had a million dollar bond each. Wow. And then hired them like the top defense attorney in the state.

Mike's mom, Deb, is asked about this on this case. Like, is that infuriating to you that, you know, they were able to bond out and that like they've got this family that's putting all this money up for them. And she said, she said, no, she said, I feel sorry for the Floyds. They've had to go through hell as much as I have. My family's not the only one that's been hurt by this. Really? Yeah. I don't understand. Why does she feel sorry for them?

I mean, because their parents who are maybe now having to clean up something that their kids did without. Hmm. I'm thinking that's what she's meaning by that. Their trial began in the summer of 2007. Were they tried together? They were tried together. OK. And that's the extent of what I know about this trial.

What? There's no were tried together. Okay. And that's the extent of what I know about this trial. What? There's no coverage of it. Okay. Not even like local newspaper coverage that I could find. What? Yep. It lasted two weeks. The jury deliberated for two days and then declared that they were deadlocked.

They could not reach a verdict. Even on the conspiracy? Mm-mm. Well, I guess, guess yeah there's yeah wow you know what it's funny now that you say that the story makes sense yeah it all makes sense yeah but yeah is there enough to actually right did they take this to trial too soon? You know, I don't know if it's too soon. I don't know what – I mean, other than waiting for a body, waiting to find a body. That's what the DA tends to do. Right.

Yeah. Until they feel like they've got a slam dunk yeah so the jury was deadlocked and the judge declared a mistrial wow hung jury okay but the prosecution was like we're gonna do this again they really thought they had a strong enough case here even without Mike's body. They thought there was enough evidence and Deb felt the same way. She couldn't believe that they didn't reach a verdict. She thought the family's influence probably played a part in that. Did they not get a change of venue? Here's something interesting. In the state of Kansas only the defense can file for a change of venue what yep the prosecution cannot oh i didn't realize that i had no idea yeah yep so yeah deb's thought is that the family the floyd family's influence

played a huge part in this well of course, you don't want to piss them off. Yeah. And so the prosecution was like, okay, we're going to do this again. But they can't file for a change of venue. So this whole thing happens again in the same town. Well, are they going to get acquitted

and then everybody's screwed and then they find Mike's body and there's nothing they can do about it because of double jeopardy? Well, God, I hope not. Well, you know what happens. I do know what happens. All right. That would be one way it could go. That's not how it goes. Okay.

So nine months later, they do the whole thing again. In April of 2008, nearly three years after Mike Golub disappeared, the second trial began. Mike's sister, who was still living in California at this time, she flew in to be with her mom for this trial. And they were worried about this taking place in their small town. And technically it's happening at the county level, I believe. But, you know, I mean, come on. Yes, we all get it. It's from a local jury. Yes. And Deb said she had a good feeling about the second trial, though. She said it felt different to her. She hadn't felt good about the first trial. And so she was she really thought that they would get justice this time. But they were still worried about that influence that the Floyd family had

on this small town, even at the county level. So this happened at the Stanton County Courthouse is where this trial took place. And yeah, I mean, the prosecution called Chad's own family members to testify. His cousin who ran the bank was like the first to testify. And he testified about how Chad had told him all about that plan to bribe Mike to leave town at $50,000. The prosecutor asked him, you were left with the impression that Mike Golub had accepted $50,000 in exchange for relinquishing his parental rights, correct? And Chris Floyd, who's Chad Floyd's cousin who runs the bank, he said, yes, I was. He also then testified about how he had questioned Chad kind of about this over the course of the investigation after Mike had disappeared. this over the course of the investigation after Mike had disappeared. He said, OK, if you truly had nothing to do with this, why are you making things difficult for investigators? So like

they hadn't been cooperative, really. He, you know, refused to answer questions when being interrogated. I mean, from a defendant's point of view, it's smart the way he handled it. Always having a lawyer present. He handled it always having a lawyer present he handled it the way a wealthy person does 100 100 and honestly the way we should all handle it i want my lawyer yeah yeah and so chris testified that he had asked chad why are you kind of making things difficult for the investigators and he said that cho Chode... No, no, I just called Chad Chode. I meant to say Chad Told, but I just said Chode.

Brandy. I think it's like a Freudian slip. Is it true that Chad was quite short? That I don't know. Was he a big boy? I don't know the answer to that. Oh, that's a shame that is a shame did he look like a tuna can i don't know can you picture a tuna can i'm picturing

one of those oh okay one of those old school mini soda cans where they're just like short and squatty not the new ones the new ones are like proportionate. No. The old style ones. I'm with you. Yeah. Like an old mini Shasta can. We all know exactly what you're saying. And we're picturing the

old mini Shasta with Chad's face at the top. Anyway. Okay. So he questions. So what did the chode told him? Anyway, so Chad told him, you wouldn't cover for your wife. Oh. Yeah. And Chris said, not for murder.

Why does your face look like that? I just perplexed because chad or chode as i like to call him is perplexing me because he's telling these strategic mistruths yeah so is he all of a sudden being honest here or is there no i don't know because or is this like a way to like okay if shit really gets bad then i've got that my cousin who's yeah i can shove it all off on shannon yeah i i don't know so chris says not for murder and And then the prosecutor says, and what was his response to that when you said that? And Chris says that Chad said, that's where you and I are different. And then he said, doesn't matter anyway. They can't prosecute without a body.

Then Chris's wife, Dara, testified. She testified that she saw Mike at a school event just like days before he disappeared. And things seemed totally normal. Mike seemed very involved with Mikey. It was like a school event for Mikey. He said he did not seem like a guy who was getting ready to take $50,000 to leave town. Right. Yeah.

She said she witnessed him with Mikey that day. She saw him say, I love you, son. It was like an emotional moment with each other. This was not a guy who was about to take $50,000 to... It was emotional because he knew he was leaving. No. No. Wouldn't that be what the defense says?

I mean, yeah, I'm guessing that's probably exactly what the defense says. The prosecution did present the evidence about the $50,000. So $50,000 was cashed in. You know, there's testimony about that. But then they showed where it was redeposited into the couple's bank accounts just in an out-of-state bank. See, that's super damning to me. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Then a couple of people testified about some comments that Chad made to some co-workers. The first one was John Nickel. He said that he saw Chad very upset one day. He testified, he got very angry and got in my face and said, if he ever, if Mike ever tried to get custody of little Mikey, he'd kill him. So this co-worker of Chad's is like, yeah, he's all worked up. He's really angry. You know, he's like, if Mike tries to take Mikey away, I'll fucking kill him.

OK. Mm hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Ray Winters was another co-worker of Chad's, and he testified that Chad had told him that it would be super easy to make Mike disappear. The prosecution asked him if Chad had ever indicated how he would do that. How easy is it? Yeah. What did he say?

And Ray Winters testified that Chad had told him he would drop him in a well. Oh, shit. Mm-hmm. Yep. Ray Winters testified that Chad had told him he would drop him in a well. Oh, shit. Mm-hmm. Yep. So the prosecution then put up a forensic expert to talk about that DNA evidence that was found on the underside of those deck boards on the Floyd's house. And, you know, she testified that it was genetic material. They believed it was blood, but, you know, couldn't say for sure. But it was definitely genetic material and it definitely belonged to Mike Golub.

But on cross-examination, the defense asked her how that DNA could have gotten there. And she said, you know, I'm not sure. I don't know that. Right. And so they said, well, you know, could it be because he was standing on that deck one time and he spit or sneezed? And she had to admit that like – Surely it would take more than that, wouldn't it? Yes, it could be.

I mean that is technically possible but not likely. Right. So what's interesting here is on the 48 Hours episode, they bring this up, but it was never brought up in court. So the forensic expert gives this testimony like, yes, we found this genetic material. It's Mike's for sure. And then the defense is like, but you don't even know what it really is, right? It could be saliva or skin cells or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she has to be like, well, technically, yes, that's correct.

And then so you don't even know how it got there. It could have been from a sneeze or he could have, you know, whatever. His nose could have dripped while he was standing there on the. So what's interesting about this, and they bring this up on the 48 Hours episode, but it was never brought up in court, is that no other DNA was found on these boards. If it were that easy for genetic material to be getting on the undersides of this board,

it should have all kinds of people's DNA all over it. But Chad's DNA wasn't found there. Shannon's DNA wasn't found there. Only Mike's DNA was found on the underside of these boards. Shit.

That would have been a really great thing to have presented in court. Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. Admittedly, the defense did not like the forensic evidence. It did not look good for them. And so.

Didn't look terrible. I mean, yeah, it would have looked terrible if somebody would have brought up the stuff about nobody else's DNA being on there. Yeah. But yeah, unfortunately, that was not brought up in court. And so the defense went to defense. What is this? Sports game? Jesus. So the defense mounted their attack on Mike.

Oh. mounted their attack on mike oh they put his stepbrother bo hines on the stand and they talked about how when mike was younger he used drugs well cocaine marijuana alcohol okay well OK, well, maybe even methamphetamines. All right, but we're talking about a long time ago. He used drugs. What does that have to do with right now? Well, I will tell you. Please do. There had been a drug bust in town shortly before Mike disappeared. Maybe he was involved in it in some way.

The police said that was not the case. He wasn't involved in any way, but that didn't stop the defense from bringing that possibility up in court. Okay. They even put a woman on the stand, Helen Blevins, who said that Mike had implied to her that he had tipped off the cops in what resulted in this drug bust and that he was worried about retaliation. Ah, so he skedaddled out of town because he was so worried. Yeah. Helen testified that Mike said,

I did something that's going to piss a lot of people off. Oh, believe me, I could disappear and no one would ever find me. Yeah, right. I totally agree. I think it sounds totally made up. Who is this Helen? That's what I don't know.

Okay. And I would probably know if I could have watched the full episode because I bet it would have said under her name how she was related to this case. Helen Blevins, local liar. Yeah. I'm just kidding.

That's exactly what it would have said. This was super upsetting to Chrissy and Deb who were sitting, you know, in the courtroom for this. Oh, that'd be awful. They just felt like the defense just got up there and said anything they wanted to about Mike because Mike wasn't there to defend himself. Right.

They could say anything they wanted. Also, do people just try methamphetamines? I figured that's the kind of thing. Yeah, that I don't. You get hooked on real fast. Yeah. The defense also floated another idea that perhaps it wasn't the drug bust thing at all. Perhaps he hadn't been paid money to leave town.

Perhaps Brooke, Mike's girlfriend that he was like really serious with, they were like talking about marriage and stuff. Right. Maybe she'd had an affair. So. So what? I don't know. So like he was so sad about this affair, he just leaves. Is that the theory?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Okay. So, maybe it was a drug ring. Maybe he was paid money to leave town. Maybe there was an affair.

And he just skidded out. Maybe Brooke had an affair, and then that person that she cheated with had like threatened Mike. Oh, I see. Yeah, it was like a jealous lover situation. I gotcha. Yeah. It's all really making sense now. Definitely.

Or. I heard that jealous lover smoked pot in high school. You're going to like this next part then. Oh. One of the last things that the defense put up for the jury was perhaps that Mike had fallen back into drugs like he'd done when he was a younger person. Okay. He said, I'm sorry, this is defense attorney Dan Monat. M-O-N-N-A-T.

Monat. You're asking me? This is the main reason I wanted to be able to watch the whole episode for you guys, because I wanted to figure out how to pronounce this guy's last name. It never came up in the first three minutes that I got to watch ten times. Damn it. Okay. So this is what the defense attorney says.

Consider, too, that if a despairing Mike Golub returned to drugs anywhere, you know, and with his fragile heart overdosed in some drug dealer's squalid drug den or shooting gallery, drug dealers squalid drug den or shooting gallery than other people unknown to any of us had a motivation to get rid of his body and dispose of it to protect their drug dealing enterprise so we're just throwing whatever the fuck out there yeah yeah literally it could be anything it could be anything they weren't done yet though anything. They weren't done yet, though. There was one more possibility. I know what it is. What is it? Death by parasail.

No! It could happen, Brandy. And the parasailing instructor doesn't want to lose their parasailing enterprise, so they hide his body. No. So Shannon's defense attorney kurt kerns that's cute he said you know mike's body's never been found he might not even be dead maybe he's on a beach in mexico with shades on going suckers he did not say that in court. He sure did. I don't know that he said it quite like that. If he didn't, he should have.

Maybe that's the last scene of this movie. Oh. Got my revenge. I ain't paying child support to nobody now. Oh, fuck off. Seriously. Seriously. Yeah. Mm-hmm. now oh fuck off seriously seriously yeah the prosecutor rick win he closed his case by you want me to slurp my drink right into i did

i did don't worry i did it so good prosecutor rick win closed his case by urging the jurors to ignore the rhetoric in this trial and focus on the reason. He said, there are two people in this entire world that had the motivation to kill Mike Golub that day. They wanted him out of the picture. He was an impediment to their future. Chad and Shannon Floyd. The jury then began deliberating. Oh, my God, Brandy. their future, Chad and Shannon Floyd. The jury then began deliberating. Oh, my God, Brandy.

The first day, they deliberated for three hours. Then they came back the second day, and they deliberated for two hours. And then they sent the judge a note. No. They were deadlocked. Shut up. Yep. The judge asked them to continue deliberating. Yeah.

Go back to your room. And so they did for two more days. And then they sent another note. We're super deadlocked? We're super deadlocked. We are hopelessly split seven to five. Oh, wow. And the judge declared a mistrial.

Yeah. Yeah. Is that the end of this story? Mostly. Yeah, because they're not going to try it again. So initially the prosecution was like, we're absolutely trying this again. Try it again. So initially the prosecution was like, we're absolutely trying this again.

Ultimately, they ended up dismissing the charges without prejudice, which means they can refile charges at a later date when more evidence is maybe discovered. Oh, my God. But yeah, at this point, the charges were dropped against Chan and Shannon. I'm sorry. The charges were dropped. Shannon and the truth. Against Chad and Shannon Floyd.'m sorry. The charges were dropped. Shannon and the Chode. Against Chad and Shannon Floyd. They were free to go. Holy shit.

Yep. Like I said, the prosecutors initially announced like, yes, we're going to try this again. Actually, like seven months went by and they were like, if this happens again, the judge could dismiss the charges. Well, yeah, you shouldn't. And if the judge dismisses the charges, you don't get another shot at it. No, it would be very unwise. Yes.

Two juries have told you you don't have enough here. So you're going to have to wait for something new to happen. Yeah. When it was announced that the charges were dropped, Chad's defense attorney said they will never find evidence incriminating Chad and Shannon Floyd because no such evidence exists, nor did it ever exist. Wow. When this episode of 48 Hours aired, Chad and Shannon's attorneys wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper. I'm going to read you. Oh my God, please do. One year ago, the state of Kansas dismissed all charges against Chad and Shannon Floyd after two laborious trials in a case originally filed

by former Attorney General Phil Klein. The prosecutors correctly realized that no jury would convict this innocent couple and that a third trial would gain nothing and do more harm than good in this small farming community. The Floyds and many residents of Stanton County had hoped that the dismissal would put an end to the malicious gossip and veil of suspicion that has divided and exhausted their community ever since Michael Golub disappeared. But just when the healing had begun, CBS producers from 48 Hours came along and reopened the wound for no greater purpose than the network's own commercial interests. Chad and Shannon cooperated with law enforcement and answered their questions during the investigation.

Chad and Shannon presented their case twice in court, so they had no reason to rehash the ordeal again for some gratification of some ratings-driven reality TV show. Okay. Chad and Shannon wished only to put this case behind them and focus on their children. And they asked that CBS leave them, their children and their community alone. That's so telling. Yeah, I agree. They will give a prepared statement to the media outlet they know. Yep. But not one that they don't control. Yep. And that they don't know. Yeah. Also,

if Chad and Shannon are truly innocent, then this program highlights a missing persons case. Well, no, no, no. If they're truly innocent, then, yeah, they look bad. Yeah. And sure, yeah, I get it. That sucks. Yeah. Looks bad.

Yeah. I don't know that that's what's going on here. I don't think that's what's happening here either. I probably would have went the same way as the jury. I don't know if I could have reached a conviction in this case. I don't know that this should have. No. Let me start that again. This should not have gone to trial yet.

Yeah. That's the really sad thing about a case without a body. It's like you can have stuff that all makes sense. Yeah. And I think this all makes sense. Yeah. But it's not enough to convict somebody. Yeah. And I think this all makes sense. Yeah. But it's not enough to convict somebody. Yeah. Following like the dropping of the charges and everything, Chad and Shannon moved away and they took Mikey with them.

Oh, my God. And Deb has not gotten to see her grandson since 2005 or something like that. Shannon refused to let Deb see Mikey throughout the course of the trials and everything. And then they moved away and she has no legal claim to him. How awful. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Deb said that the last she knew that Shannon and Chad and Mikey were living in Burlington, Colorado. Some anonymous person had been sending Deb clippings from the newspapers there whenever Mikey like made it into the newspaper or something. She has no idea who they were coming from. Oh, wow.

Deb did stay close with Mike's girlfriend at the time of his disappearance, Brooke, and his son with Brooke Cameron. They have been, you know, constants in Deb's life and Jim's life. Brooke moved on. She married someone else, of course, but that she's always stayed very close to Deb and Jim and made sure that they get to see their grandson. Yeah. In 2018, Jim Hines did an interview with the Hutchinson News. He said that Mike going missing had been an enormous loss in his life and that that was just compounded in 2011 when Deb died in her sleep at the age of 60. 60? Oh, my God. He said they were just six months short of being together 21 years.

one years. Oh. He said that they had gone to a casino in Dodge City the night before to celebrate Deb's 60th birthday and that they'd come home. She'd gone to sleep and she never woke up the next morning. Wow. He said when he found her in bed that she had a glow about her and a smile on her face and he felt like she was finally at peace. Wow. He believed that the emotional stress of not knowing what had happened to Mike and going through the two trials, that that had weighed heavy on her and had resulted in her early death. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's an unimaginable stress to take on. Rumors swirled in Johnson after the police attended Deb's funeral.

People said that it was in case Michael showed up. Oh, come on. But local officials said that that was not the case. They said they were just there to support the family. Mm hmm. Michael Golub remains missing to this day and his disappearance is officially unsolved. Oh, my gosh. And that's the story of a disappearance in a small town. That's so sad. Yeah. What the hell happened to him? I mean, I think the prosecution's case is probably what happened. I think it's exactly what happened.

Okay, first of all, I think the jury was probably impacted by this family's power in town. I mean, there are people who don't want to piss off the most powerful family, the richest family, the whatever family. Yeah. They could be their landlords, their neighbors, their – Their employers. Yes, exactly. And if not their employers, maybe their uncle's employer. You know, it's a mess.

But even without that, I don't know that it's enough evidence to convict. It's not. It's not enough evidence to convict. No. The juries did the right thing, I think. Yeah, I do too. I think so too. But it's really fucking sad.

But somebody did the wrong thing, and that's what makes it so sad. Yeah. Well, that was terrible. I know. You know what I'd like to do right now, Brandy? An ad. Do-do. And now we're back from the ad.

Do-do. Okay. I was going to say, usually at this time you then tell a case. Oh, a little sassy, are you? Little sassy. Is it because I sassed you too much at the beginning of your story? Yes, it is. Got a little poopy attitude?

Yes. Is that it? Sitting on Dump Mountain, are you? Dump Mountain? That sounds like I shit my pants. I know. I did not. And that's why it's such a fun thing to say to you.

The listeners, they don't know whether you shat your pants or not. It's a classic she said, she said situation, and they don't know who to believe. Although I am taller and therefore more credible. Is that a thing? No. People believe tall people? No. Oh, tall people? No. Oh, okay.

I mean, maybe. Let us know, folks. Yeah. Think about it. I'm taller than Brandy. Do you believe me more? Mmm. Mmm.

Okay, you're looking at me like you'd like me to get on with my life and this case, and so I shall. Yeah, I mean, we do have a Zoom call later, so. I am looking forward to it greatly. What do you think? I'm going to take two hours to tell this case? and so I shall. Yeah, I mean, we do have a Zoom call later, so. I am looking forward to it greatly. What do you think, I'm going to take two hours to tell this case? No, false, I am not. Okay. I might.

All right, let me hurry up. Okay, so hugest of shout outs to 48 hours. Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. So the fork, I almost said the forks at 48 hours. The forks at 48 hours. The forks at 48 hours. The folks at 48 hours have been covering this case for decades. And so, man, they just, you know, every couple of years they've got to.

Yeah. So they've covered the shit out of this case. So biggest of shout outs to them. Yeah. Washington Post also had a great article on this. ABC News did some stuff. But really, I mean, if we're playing favorites, we're playing 48 hours nonstop. It's just Aaron Moriarty posters everywhere.

OK, Brandi, are you ready for a wild and completely true story? What do you mean? Why are you saying completely true like that? for a wild and completely true story? What do you mean? Why are you saying completely true like that? Because it's a completely true story. It makes me think it's not true. No, it's wild. It's harrowing. You'll be on the edge of your seat, I think.

Okay. Okay. Here we go. Picture it. April 4th, 1989. Titusville, Florida. Go! Picture it. April 4th, 1989. Titusville, Florida. 22-year-old Charles Flynn, who went by Chip, was hanging out with his ex-girlfriend, Kim Halleck.

The two of them had recently broken up, and Kim hadn't taken it well. She especially hadn't liked that he had started dating someone new. But that night, they were hanging out together. They were sitting in Chip's Chevy truck in Holder Park. And they smoked some pot and talked about their relationship. Did he hold her? Possibly. I mean, one source said they had sex, so I imagine there was some holding.

Yeah. Anyway. Someone was holding something. Okay, calm down. This is a family show. It's not. So, you know, they're discussing their relationship, and then Kim was startled to see a black man suddenly appear on the driver's side of the truck. She told Chip, there's a black guy on your side. And Chip rolled his window up as quickly as he could. And, you know, that was kind of the end of that.

Okay. Chip and Kim kept talking. And, like, 20 minutes later, Chip got out of the truck to pee, and Kim heard him say, hold on, man. It was terribly frightening. The same black man she'd seen walking past the truck was right there in front of Chip, threatening him with a gun. Mm-hmm.

He was ordering Chip around. He wanted the money out of Chip's wallet. Kim thought fast. Chip had a gun in his glove box, so she took it out of the glove box and put it under some jeans that were right next to her. What? Whose jeans were they?

I don't know if this was perhaps after some relations. I don't know if Chip kept a spare pair of jeans. What I want to know is who doesn't have their pants on. It could be a spare pair, Brandy. All right. All right. The man ordered Kim to tie Chip's hands behind his back with a shoelace? Or did the man do that himself? It's hard to say. What? What? Details are difficult sometimes, Brandy. Well, I mean,

that one doesn't seem that difficult. Well, that's very rude of you to say. And I'll thank you to keep a neutral face as I tell you this tale. At any rate, the black man ordered Chip and Kim back in the truck and he got in there with them. Quit making that weird face. That was my neutral face. That is not a neutral face. That's some weird quivering shit. I didn't like it one bit. The three of them were all crammed in together in the front seat of Chip's truck.

The man began driving. It couldn't have been easy. The truck was a stick shift, so he was shifting gears and steering the truck and also holding a gun on Chip and Kim. It took skills. Yeah. gears and steering the truck and also holding a gun on Chip and Kim. Mm-hmm. It took skills. Yeah. Especially when you consider that Chip's truck had a custom gear shift, so you kind of had to know what you were doing. But, you know, this dude did it.

He kidnapped Chip and Kim. Okay. He drove them to a citrus grove. And the terror continued. The man yanked Kim out of the truck. She was terrified. At some point, the black man had called her a slut, so that wasn't nice. Kristen.

It wasn't. And then something incredible happened. Somehow, with his hands still tied behind his back, Chip managed to grab the gun that Kim had hidden underneath the jeans. He'd known it was there somehow. Chip fired the gun at the man as he dove out of the truck. Uh-huh. With his hands still tied behind his back?

Yeah. Uh-huh. Incredible, huh? Yeah. Now, he didn't manage to hit the man, okay? No one's aim is that good. Yeah. But still, the chaos gave Kim a chance to get away.

She jumped back in the truck. Chip yelled at her to go. And she did. As she drove away, Kim heard five or six more gunshots. She was terrified. She knew she needed to get help. So she drove for three miles. She passed two convenience stores.

Why didn't she stop at them? Oh, okay. Let's put you in this situation and see how perfectly you handle it. Brandy. Well, I don't know that I'd handle it perfectly, but I think you would just stop at the first place you come to that looks like it has a phone. That might be an option. Yeah, you could stop at the convenience stores.

You could also stop at the hospital. You could stop at the multiple homes she passed, including her own home, which she lived in with her parents. Where'd she go? She went to a friend's house, a guy named David Stroop. Uh-huh. Inventor of Stroopwaffles? Nice mansion. Nice place.

David was a friend of hers and Chip's, and of course David dropped everything to help Kim. He did wonder why she hadn't stopped at the first available pay phone. Yeah, that was my question, too. Why had she driven all the way to his house? There was no time for these questions. They needed to call 911, so they did. By this point, about an hour had passed since Kim had fled the kidnapper. about an hour had passed since Kim had fled the kidnapper.

Sheriff's deputy Mark Rixey and Sergeant Diane Clark were immediately dispatched to the scene. But the directions that Kim gave the dispatcher were so vague that Mark and Diane couldn't find the scene. So they had a deputy go get Kim and have Kim take them to exactly where it was that she'd left Chip. And you know, she did. The police found Chip laying on his stomach with his hands tied behind his back. He'd been shot in the chest. A revolver, the one that Chip kept in the glove compartment, was about five feet from his body. The officers approached Chip and discovered that he was still alive. He was in terrible pain, but he was able to speak. Chip told them, Get me out of here. I want to go home.

get me out of here. I want to go home. The officers talked to Chip, but he was very guarded. He didn't even want to tell them his name. Why? I can only speculate. Why not tell them your name? I don't know. Does he have a warrant? Don't think so.

Okay. He certainly didn't want to tell them who'd shot him. He only said that he wanted to get out of there. He wanted to go home. Did Kim shoot him? No, the black man did it, Brandy. No. Then he would have said a black man did this.

Right. Some very scary black man came out of the wherever at the park and he forced us in the car. And then, you know, we had to pull over here. Then he pulled Kim out of the car and I dove out. I got the gun. I dove out. Yeah, you tell that story if that's what happened.

Yeah. Chip didn't want to say any of that. Uh-huh. Because that's not what happened. Because Kim shot him. The officer asked him, could you at least tell us which way he went?

Who did this to you? Again, Chip refused to say. That seemed odd. Yeah, it's really fucking odd. In fact, a lot of things seemed odd to those officers who first responded to this scene. They thought it was odd that Kim had taken so long to call 911. Yes! Why had she gone all the way to a friend's house? And why, when they finally arrived at the scene, was Kim refusing to go see Chip? Shouldn't she want to check on him? No, she's the one who shot him. Is that what fucking happened? She shot him and she's blaming some mysterious black guy?

Brandy, what the hell are you talking about? I just told you a very true, real story. Yeah, the fact that you said it's a very real story makes me think it's not a real story. A very mean man who called Kim a slut probably while he was shifting and steering and holding the gun all at the same time. Because he's a great multitasker. Soon enough, Chip's parents, Charles and Peggy, found out that their son was hurt and they rushed to the Orange Grove. But the police wouldn't let them get close to their son. That was devastating.

It was also so confusing. They found out that he'd been out with Kim that night, and they were like, what? Why? Chip had a new girlfriend, one he was smitten with. He dumped Kim because she was always all over him. He never even talked about Kim anymore. But in that moment, that didn't matter. Because Chip died that night before the ambulance arrived.

He did? Yeah. Yeah. That night, Kim spoke to homicide detectives and even though the first responders had been very suspicious of her it seems that the homicide detectives weren't they just wanted her story they were just like a little stitious suspicious Spicious. Spicious. That joke doesn't even work. They were a little spicious. Patty, cut that, obviously.

No, Patty, keep it in. Keep it in. What a massive failure of a joke. You were thinking of the word superstitious. I sure was. Very superstitious. Do your case. Brandy told a dumb joke. No one's going to hear it because I'm going to have to cut it. I sure was. Mm-hmm. Very superstitious. Do your case.

Brandy told a dumb joke. No one's going to hear it because I'm going to have Patty cut it. It didn't work. Patty cut it. Cut the joke, Patty. Patty's keeping it in. Brandy's humiliated. Okay. Didn't take my Adderall.

Okay, anyway, so they just wanted Kim's story, you know? Yeah. Very few questions asked. Great. Kim didn't have a lot of details about the man who'd murdered Chip. She knew he was black. He was definitely black. Yeah.

Black. Yeah. Did I mention black? Yeah, you did a couple times. So did she. Okay, good. Yep, that was it. She said, I really didn't even get a real good look at him.

I was really scared. She did eventually describe the man as big and bulky, and she said he had a jerry curl. You a fan of a jerry curl? It's fine. What yearerry curl? It's fine. What year is it? It's 89. Yeah, very of the time. Yeah, it's very trendy.

She told the police everything that happened that night. He's letting his soul glow. Very good. And what she told them differed from what she later told Chip's parents. And what she told them differed from what she later told Chip's parents. She told them that the man who'd abducted them didn't steer and shift all the gears while holding the gun on them. Oh, really? Who had done that? She had. The man made her do the shifting.

Oh, weird. While he steered with one hand and held the gun on her and Chip. Okay. So, you know, it's a little odd. Yeah. But okay. That's fine. Pretty soon, and please don't ask any follow-up questions, the police got a tip that a man named Crosley Green was involved in Chip's murder.

Who'd the tip come from? Kim? Don't worry about it. We're trying to find justice here, Brandyy just trying to track down the murderer i think we're no look in the wrong direction crosley green was a black man in his early 30s who lived in the area and he was he big and bulky with a jerry jerry curl no he wasn't no no what do you look like i mean he's just like you know kind of slim build short cropped hair never had long hair never did the jerry curl thing to my knowledge um so that the only thing that this person has that crossley green has in common with the mysterious black man is that he's a black man?

Yeah. Great. Also, Crosley Green had a criminal record, so. That's not a so. There you go. That's not a so. There you go. It's all adding up.

Okay. Okay. When he was 18, Crosley had been convicted of armed robbery in New York. So kind of the same thing that happened here. Armed robbery. What did he rob? He took the money from Chip's wallet. Now, did Kim get the money out for him? Did he get it out himself? I can't remember exactly. But robbery, kidnapping, murder. So he did escalate. I'll give you that.

All at once. Well, it's silly to separate these things, Brandi. Don't be ridiculous. Separate these things, Brandi. Okay. Don't be ridiculous. Okay. More recently, Crosley had become a small-time drug dealer, and he'd just gotten out of jail. So. What?

That's not a so! So he's out of jail, so he could have done it. Okay. Opera knockety tunes, as they say. The fuck is that from? that's from me today you just made that up just now i think i did did i maybe i didn't oh my god so crossley didn't fit kim's description of the man who attacked her you know as you asked you, OK, he's not big and bulky. All right. No Jerry curl. But he looked good for this crime.

Detectives put because he's black. Hold on. OK, I'm about to tell you all this wonderful evidence. OK, keep your pants on. And also, what are you doing? I just I got there were three text messages. I was making sure it was an emergency with my baby. There's not. I'm'm ready how many emergencies happen well it'd be the time that i wouldn't see it that there'd be an emergency

i told you about her horrible accident this weekend while i was away at work yeah she fell down the stairs and bumped her nose she's got rug burn on her nose yeah well because i wasn't there okay detectives put together a photo lineup and was this a perfect photo lineup okay no i'll give you that okay what could they explain the photo well okay so crossley's photo was smaller and darker than the other five photos so it really stuck out yeah um and when they showed kim the photo array detectives did a super cool thing that is now illegal in florida where they told Kim that the guy they thought killed Chip was in that photo array. Great. Yeah. Wouldn't you know it, Kim picked Crosley Green

as the man who'd robbed and murdered Chip and kidnapped the two of them despite his lack of jerry curl and not being big and bulky because oh wait what's that that guy never existed she shot shot chip right she shot she shot ship i don't know did you not just hear the amazing evidence about crossley there's no evidence. He'd been out of jail. Okay. Yeah, and so Crosley Green was arrested and charged with robbery, kidnapping, and murder. Okay. Crosley was stunned. He hadn't done this. He said he had an alibi.

He'd been at a party on the night of this crime. Multiple people could vouch for him. Investigators got to work collecting evidence. But there wasn't much to collect. They dusted Chip's truck for fingerprints, but Crosley's prints weren't found anywhere in or even on the outside of the truck. Wow, that's really weird. But yeah, because like he drove things all over it. Wow, that's super strange. Must have wiped that thing clean, huh? Yeah, except he wouldn't have had the chance to, right? Because Kim drove it away when he was using what had to have been a semi-automatic weapon with those five or six shots.

Right. I assume. I don't know. As a matter of fact, investigators couldn't find fingerprints from anyone other than Chip or Kim in that truck. Oh, weird how Crossley was able to wipe away his fingerprints. But then there are still fingerprints of Kim and Chip in there. Yeah, he's a real tricky dude. I mean, he figured out that custom gear shift no problem. Yeah. Or did Kim figure it out for him?

We can't. Oh, it's tough to say. Yep. Uh-huh. Another thing that was kind of interesting was that Kim told investigators that as she'd driven away that night, she'd heard five or six shots. So Crosley had to have used some sort of semi-automatic weapon. But Chip had only been shot once. And when investigators examined the scene, they couldn't find evidence of additional gunshots, no extra shell casings, no bullet holes. They couldn't even find that extra shell casing from when Chip

shot at Crosley when, you know, when his hands were tied behind his back. Huh, that's weird. You want to hear something else that's kind of weird? Yeah, I sure do. They tested Chip's hands for gunshot residue, but they didn't find anything, which is weird because, again, he definitely shot that gun. They did not test Kim's hands because she was a victim. Uh-huh. Okay.

Oh. Okay. Mark Rixey and Diane Clark, who were the first responders on the scene that night, caught wind of where this investigation was going and they were like, whoa, what the hell? How are they not looking at Kim as a suspect in all this? Oh, shit. Her story makes no fucking sense. Yeah, and they suspected her right from the jump. Shit, her story makes no fucking sense.

Yeah, and they suspected her right from the jump. Also, in a situation like this, you're supposed to rule people out, not just assume that someone's telling you the absolute truth. So, about four months after Chip died, Mark and Diane went and met with the prosecutor. They were concerned that the wrong person was going to go down for this crime. Diane told prosecutor Christopher White, I don't think the guy you arrested is the one who did this. I think Kim is involved. They told him, hey, you know, we're really suspicious of Kim Hallett. Do you have a good joke you want to tell right now? Suspicious.

Supers. Patty, she's making a face like she's not pleased. Here's everything we saw that night. Here's what we're thinking. I'm not certain that they shared their theory with him, but a theory that Mark shared more recently was that Kim and Chip got into an argument. She pulled the gun out of the glove box, either intentionally or unintentionally shot Chip. They freaked out, didn't want to get in trouble, and they made up a story. What do you think? um yeah I think that's likely right

yeah yeah I think that makes sense yeah but prosecutor Christopher White you know listened to their concerns and was like mm-hmm okay all right we got the right guy

even if he's not got the right guy. Even if he's not, like, the right guy, like, this guy just got out of jail. He's probably just bad news, so we should probably just make sure he gets right back in there. Bye-bye. Yeah. Great. Cool. Here's the thing, Brandy. He totally listened

to their concerns. No, he didn't. Hey, he totally considered what they were saying. But he didn't really have to because his case was pretty good. He had evidence that pointed to Crosley Green. Are you ready to hear it? Yeah. Investigators found shoe prints around the crime scene.

And they brought a very good dog to the crime scene and that dog sniffed up those footprints sniffed them real good and that dog followed that scent all the way to a house and do you know whose house that dog trotted up to crossley green's house close it wasotted up to? Crosley Green's house. Close. It was the home of one of Crosley Green's sisters, and sometimes he stayed there. So, case closed. Murderer found. Justice complete. Served.

Oh, yeah, you're right. Hey! Crosley Green was about to go on trial. Oh, shit. That was devastating for his family. This family did not need another tragedy. By this point, Crosley was in his early 30s. He had children of his own.

He had siblings, and he had become a father figure to basically his entire family. Because when Crosley was just 19, his parents separated. And one day, about three months into that separation, his father murdered his mother and immediately died by suicide. Oh, my gosh. So after that, Crosley had tried to kind of look out for everybody. He got the nickname Papa because he was just that father figure to everyone. And now they were going to potentially lose him. So when the DA offered Crosley a deal, he said no.

The prosecutor offered him 22 years in exchange for the guilty plea. For a crime he had nothing to do with. Yep. But Crosley was adamant that he hadn't done anything. Yeah. And he had faith in the system. He really believed that he would not be found guilty for a crime that he hadn't committed.

Yeah. So in August of 1990, Crosley Green went on trial. The good folks at 48 Hours were kind enough to tally how many times Crosley's race was referred to at trial in front of his all-white jury. Oh, how many times? I love to hear an all-white jury when it's supposed to be a jury of your peers. Yeah, it's cool, isn't it? That's cool.

That's just great. Would you like to guess? I don't have a fucking clue. So many times. Just take a guess. 17 times. 140 times holy shit yep wow so that was the vibe yeah kim hallock was the prosecution star witness she told the jury that crosley green was the man who committed this horrible crime she talked about that moment when she fled the scene, saying,

I jumped in the truck and locked the doors. I turned around and all I saw was the black man firing. I mean, this just couldn't have gone any better for her, could it have? This is... She makes up some fucking story. And then. The investigators help her. Yeah, they don't even.

Ask the most basic questions. They don't question the most ridiculous things about her story. Right. Right. She tells them a black man did this and they just take off. Wow. She said she heard Chip yell for her to go get help, so she drove off. The prosecution also put forth three other witnesses who all claimed that Crossley had told them that he'd committed the crime. One of the witnesses was his own sister, Sheila. What?

Yeah. Worth noting. Yeah, she's just like coerced by police. It's so sad. She had recently been convicted of some drug charges. She was facing 10 years in prison. Yeah, if you testify, we'll just make all that go away. So in exchange for testifying against her brother, the prosecution agreed to speak on her behalf at her upcoming sentencing.

The prosecution agreed to speak on her behalf at her upcoming sentencing. So when it came time for cross-examination, Crosley's defense attorney, Rob Parker, asked her about that deal she had with the prosecution. And Sheila said that she was afraid to be away from her four children for 10 years. She said her two daughters and two sons were the most important people in her life. So the prosecution had the three witnesses who said that Crosley confessed to this crime. They had Kim Halleck, who said he was the one who'd done it. And they had that awesome shoe print evidence. Is the shoe print evidence really awesome oh yeah because the shoe prints went from the crime scene to the house that Crosley sometimes stayed at

and those shoe prints were the murderer's shoe prints for sure. Okay. All right. The defense raised the idea that perhaps Kim was responsible for this crime, which I know is wild. Wow, yeah. What a concept. They also talked about Crosley's alibi, but only put one person on the stand who said that he'd been at the party that night. On September 5th, 1990, the jury deliberated for three hours.

They found him guilty. Yeah. He was sentenced to death. His sister testifying against him would have been like I mean just the jury in my opinion the jury would wait that so hi.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just awful. It is. It was devastating for Crosley and his family. It was also shocking because Crosley had been sentenced to death and the state had really next to nothing on him. No evidence on him.

Soon a team of lawyers began working to exonerate Crosley. And this part took absolutely forever. There were lots of setbacks and state court was a mess. So we will be using the magic of the yada, yada, yada. The important thing is that right away, Crosley had people on his side fighting for his innocence. Over the years, lawyers dug into the case and made several upsetting discoveries. First off, Crosley's new defense team hired a criminalist who discovered that the diagram that the prosecution showed the jury about those shoe prints supposedly leading from the crime scene out of the park was just wrong. Really?

The diagram didn't match the evidence that was documented in the crime scene video. Oh, my gosh. Okay, not to mention the fact that those shoe prints were never actually linked to Crosley. I was going to say, did they compare them to Crosley? Were they able to say, like, this shoe that he owns made this footprint? They couldn't say that. No, they could not say that. Oh, my gosh.

On top of that, all three of the people who testified at trial saying that Crosley had confessed to them all recanted their testimony. They said they'd been coerced. Yeah. Crosley's sister, Sheila, spoke about that in 1999 with 48 Hours and said that she was told that if she didn't testify against her brother, she'd never see her children again. Crosley's new defense team also talked to the first responders on the scene, and the first responders were like, yeah, we thought Kim was sketchy as hell. We have no idea why the detectives on this case didn't look into her story the least little bit. Mm-hmm. They'd never tested her hands for gunshot residue. Plus, she was taken into the station and questioned at approximately 4.30.

But detectives didn't actually start recording any of her answers until four hours later. Wow. Yeah. The prosecutor in this case, as I've mentioned, was a dude named Christopher White. And because he is exceptionally stupid, he agreed to be interviewed on 48 Hours. Excellent. Methinks he had no idea what he was getting into with our queen ariel moriarty here's part of the interview aaron moriarty did it ever occur to you or anyone else that maybe

kim hallock wasn't telling the truth christopher well of course it did. Did it? Because you didn't even seem to question it like the tiniest bit. Aaron, then why wasn't she ever investigated? Why was she never a suspect? Oh, she was. She was a suspect. We cleared her very early on. Christopher, what was supposed to be... What do you mean? What? What? What? Aaron.

He wasn't prepared for that question? What do you mean? Aaron. No GSR taken of her hands? Why not? Christopher. I don't know if there was or wasn't at this point. Aaron. There wasn't. Yeah, I know that there was or wasn't at this point, Erin.

There wasn't. Yeah, I know that there was not. Why weren't pictures taken of her hands, her arms, to see if she had any injuries? Christopher, I guess they could have done more examination. I'll give you that, okay? This interview was wild. My personal favorite part. OK, so she's she's asking him these very rude questions about why Kim wasn't looked into. And here's what he said. He said. You got to understand, it's kind of a small community here in Titusville. Kim Halleck lived in the area where I lived.

What? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think that's pretty clear, don't you? Yeah. I kind of know her. Yeah.

Why would we look for her look she's from the right side of the tracks essentially is what he's saying right yeah I think so yeah

he also said I don't see how there's anything here concrete to tell anybody that Kim Halleck lied well because no investigation was done so there

you're right there is nothing that's the beautiful thing about not investigating yeah but perhaps there's also nothing concrete saying that crossley green did this and he's been it and the media made the prosecution look bad, Brandy. And we can't have that. But don't worry. In the year 2000, they announced that they had new evidence. What is it? So suck on that. Okay, new evidence.

They found two very small hairs in Chip's truck. And they were like, you know what we're going to do? We're going to test these for DNA. And Crosley was like, good. Yeah, test the shit out of them. Test them on up. They're not mine. Yeah.

So the state ran the test. And? What did it say? It didn't match Crosley Green. But it didn't not match Crosley Green. But it didn't not match Crosley Green. See, there was only enough DNA to run a test that would basically narrow down the field of potential suspects. In other words, it can't point to a specific person, but it can point to a group of people. And the DNA generally matched Crosley's maternal relatives.

Who else does it match, though? DNA generally matched Crosley's maternal relatives. Uh-huh. Who else does it match, though? Like, that's pretty big, I'm guessing. Well, it's not huge. Brandy has short-circuited everyone. Okay. So this news comes out, and it's kind of like, oh, shit. Yeah.

And Crosley's brother, O'Connor Green, was like, well, hang on a second. I was good friends with the original owner of that truck. What? I drove that truck several times. It's possible those hairs are mine. Holy shit. Yeah. So the DNA stuff wasn't great for the defense.

Yeah. But it wasn't exactly a nail in the coffin either. More years passed. They lost legal battle after legal battle. years passed. They lost legal battle after legal battle. Crosley's defense attorneys kept pushing, but he stayed on death row for 19 years. Holy shit. Finally, in 2009, Crosley got some good news. Due to an error in sentencing, he was taken off of death row. So the court ruled that the lower court should not have used Crosley's prior conviction of armed robbery as an aggravating circumstance when he was sentenced. Yeah.

Because he'd committed that crime when he was so young. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, that was a big victory. Crosley wouldn't be murdered by the state of Florida. Yay. Great. But what he really wanted was a new trial. Yeah.

Or to just be let out. Just, yes. The court denied his wanted was a new trial. Yeah. Or to just be let out. Just yes. The court denied his request for a new trial. So that was devastating. Yeah. In the meantime, Crosley remained a model prisoner. He kept in touch with his family. He did his best to stay positive.

And then the defense got another break in the case. Remember how the first responders, Mark and Diane, were so convinced that Kim was full of shit that they went and met with the prosecutor to tell them their concerns? Yeah. Turns out prosecutor Christopher White took notes during that meeting. Oh, yeah? He noted their concerns about the inconsistencies in Kim's stories. He noted that they found it strange that Chip wouldn't say who shot him. You know, notes, notes, notes, notes, notes. Did not turn those over to the defense? He sure didn't.

And that is not allowed. That is not allowed. You have to disclose that shit to the defense, even if you really don't want to. Yeah, which I can see why he didn't want to. Mm-hmm. So when Crosley's defense team discovered these notes, they jumped in the air and they held it for a while and music played. And then they sat back down and did some legal work.

That's how it happened. Yeah, they did a high five in the air. Don't be ridiculous. Don't be ridiculous. My God, this is not a cartoon. This is real life. Anyway, by this point, Crosley's attorneys had run out of options at the state level. So this time they took their appeal to federal court, alleging that Crosley's constitutional rights had been violated.

I put a period on the end of that. I didn't mean to. It had been violated, dot, dot, dot, is what I meant to say, when the prosecutor had that info and kept it in his pocket like a little sneaky sneak. Yeah, we got how they'd been violated. So none of that was necessary, and it was just a big waste of time. Great. I'm so glad I did that. And in July of 2018, U.S. District Court Judge Roy Dalton was like, holy shit, U.S. District Court Judge Roy Dalton was like, holy shit, this is terrible. He ruled that the prosecutor's notes were clearly material to Crosley's case.

Yeah. And that it was, quote, difficult to conceive of information more material to the defense. Yeah. Yeah. The judge overturned Crosley's conviction and ordered a new trial. But the state of Florida was like, no, no, no. So they appealed. Yeah. And Crossley had to fucking stay in prison while this thing worked its way through the

appellate court because everything sucks. Yeah. On appeal, the state argued stupidly that it didn't matter that they'd withheld the notes from the defense because even if the defense had those notes, it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the original trial. And they were like, also, we suck. And then they pooped themselves. Yeah. OK. Not really sure that totally.

I don't think that probably did. But wouldn't it have been great? It would be. So the appellate court took its sweet time making its decision. How long? La-dee-da-dee-da-da. How long? So long, forever.

It's not like anyone's life depends on it blah blah blah then covid happened oh gosh and of course it spread like wildfire through the prison and crosley was then diagnosed with latent tuberculosis oh my gosh because i what year is this i don know. And he and his family were like, holy shit. He's been wrongfully imprisoned for decades. He finally has a shot at getting out. Yeah. And he's going to die in prison. Yes. Because the appellate court is just like sitting around with their thumbs up their asses.

I'm sorry. I don't know why I said that. So his lawyers were like, like boom motion for immediate release and in the spring of 2021 Crosley was released from prison but it was bittersweet two of his sisters who'd fought so hard for him to be exonerated had died while he was in prison. Oh, my gosh. He had grandchildren he'd never met before. Oh, my gosh. So, you know, it was joyous to be out, but COVID was still happening, and Crosley wasn't exactly free. He really wanted to go to his sister's grave,

which was just down the road from where he was staying. Yeah. But he couldn't go there. He wanted to take his grandchildren to the park. He wanted to take them fishing, but he couldn't do that either. Under the terms of his release, he could leave his brother-in-law's property to go to work, church, and the grocery store. And that was it. No.

But it was still so exciting for him to be out of prison. Yeah. So his family is clearly very tight-knit and loving loving and, you know, they just came to him. They were still waiting on that decision from the Court of Appeals. We're waiting. How rude of you. How did I say that? Waiting.

Waiting. Waiting. That. Waiting. That's when you're waiting for the end of that word. In the meantime, everyone tried to enjoy life. Crossley got a job making metal parts, and he really enjoyed it. What the fuck's that mean? Metal parts? He was a machinist.

Okay. Does that help you? Yeah. He made... Oh, I'm about to make shit up. What would be a cool metal thing for you to make? I don't know, but you gave up like in one second. He made, oh, I'm going to make shit up.

No, you seem... You know what? I'm going to blame you. Why is it my fault? You seem very not interested in my shit today, so I'm trying to really rein it in. This is you reining it in?

Yes! Yes it is, sadly. I'm taking your notes, which are not verbal, they're mostly non-verbal, and I'm trying to just keep on trucking through this story. Anyway, his coworkers gave him a nickname. PPE.

Personal protection. What's the E? Equipment. Why would they call him that? I don't know. It stood for pure positive energy. Oh. Which, yeah, just call me pure positive energy.

Don't call me PPE. But hey, that's really sweet. It is sweet, yeah. And that's what Crosley has. He's worked very hard to maintain his faith and trust in people, which I don't know how the hell you do that. No shit. But he said he chooses not to dwell on sadness and hatred and that must be pretty attractive in a person because during this time he met a woman named katherine spikes

who is gorgeous and has a cool name it is a cool name they were set up by mutual friends and katherine says she's a bit of a workaholic and she wasn't looking for love, but she was driving across the country to see her family. And so she and Crosley talked on the phone as she drove. And it was just incredible. Oh, shit. And they fell in love, Brandy. And they got engaged and they're really cute together. Excellent.

together. Excellent. But in March of 2022, less than a year after Crosley was let out of prison, the appellate court ruled that Christopher White's failure, failure. That's the Boston in me. Mark Wahlberg has taken over this pocket. Less than a year after Crosley was let out of prison, the appellate court ruled that Christopher White's failure to turn over his notes would not have changed

the outcome of the trial. So it was just like totally fine that he did that. No big deal. And they reinstated Crosley Green's conviction. This is the stupidest fucking story on earth. That is so

fucking ridiculous. Mm-hmm. His defense team appealed to the Supreme Court but the court decided not to hear the case. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So he had to go back to hear the case. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

So he had to go back to prison? Yep. Oh. The lawyers delivered the news to Crosley with his family present. And everyone was, I mean, just beside themselves. Yeah. His sister, Shirley, said, it failed us. The system failed us.

He shouldn't even gone to jail. And then she broke down crying. His son, who was just 16 when Crosley was sentenced to death, told his father, you ain't the only one doing time. We are doing the time right with you. doing time. We are doing the time right with you. He talked a bit about how this affected him to have his father be sentenced to death when he was 16 years old. I mean, it just, I don't know how you go on. Yeah. Crosley was obviously emotional, but he tried to hold it together for his family. He told them, you have showed me a lot since I've been home, but we're going to get through this together.

We're going to be all right if we stay together. I can't be hurt because I still have faith. I've got the Lord on my side. I am happy. I am happy. I am happy. And he turned to his son and said, love you, baby. Oh, my gosh. Crosley was ordered to return to prison on Monday, April 17th, 2023.

Oh, my gosh. The day before, he went to church just as he had every Sunday for the previous two years of his release. April 17th, 2023. Like nine days ago? Yep. Oh my gosh. Through some emotion, he told the congregation not to worry about him. He said, be strong with me. I am in God's hands.

I am in God's hands. And the next day he went to prison. His family saw him off. His great grandniece blew him a kiss and he caught it and walked through the doors. Oh my gosh. walked through the doors. Oh my gosh. This, oh God. Yeah, this man is in prison. Oh my gosh. Over this, I'm sorry,

fucking ridiculous, clearly made up story. Yeah. At this point, Crosley Green remains hopeful that he will one day be freed but he doesn't have a lot of options I was going to say what's the course for that he can either get paroled or maybe seek clemency those are his only options because he's exhausted all his federal court stuff all of the state court stuff. And he was convicted on fucking nothing. Yeah, nothing.

His lawyers say they are committed to Crosley's case and they won't stop until he is free. This is why. OK. Mm hmm. This is why it matters that there's enough evidence to actually convict somebody. why it matters that there's enough evidence to actually convict somebody. We talked about this in the case I did last week where, yeah,

in that case, it looks like they probably convicted the right person, but they convicted them on almost no evidence. Right. In that case, maybe it's the right thing. It probably is the right thing, I'll even say, but like, this is not the case in this case.

Yeah. This guy was convicted on no evidence. But a good story. Yes. You know? Yeah. And that's why we can't just rely on a good story. We cannot just rely on a story. It's why the evidence matters.

Yep. And I do think that if that's the bar sometimes you're not gonna get a conviction sometimes people are not gonna get a conviction when you when you think a conviction should be there and in the case like in the case i just covered yeah i think the prosecution has it right they're simply just not the evidence. And we can't put them away. We can. Exactly. And that's we need to make peace with that.

Yes. This shit right here is fucking terrible. Yes. It's worse than letting a murderer go free. One hundred percent. Oh, my gosh. This is infuriating. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's. It's amazing because you keep you learn about this story and you're like, well, he's obviously going to get out. Right. team. I think it's Keith Harrison. I can't remember. But he said, you know, I took this case thinking, well, this is winnable. Yeah. I mean, look what they had on him. Yeah. And he basically said, you know, I was naive. I had a lot to learn. Yep. i didn't know how hard it would be to correct an injustice in the justice system i mean give me a break yeah okay i didn't include this i i have it in my notes here i'm gonna go ahead and share it because you know kim hallck is she's now Kim Landers. She hasn't said much about this case, which, yeah, why would you? Yeah. But she did tell The Washington Post recently that she is exhausted about all the constant relitigation of this case. Because, you know, it hasn't just gone away.

Yeah. And that's what happens when someone's wrongfully convicted she sticks by her story she said she does she said i'm tired of being beat down by the media i'm sick of it i testified to the truth he needs to go back to where he belongs why does that sentence not surprise me at all? Yeah. I don't know. I feel like I shouldn't say too much about her, but I... This story is so upsetting.

Yeah. The absolute devastation to an entire family. Yep. Because here's the thing. Oh, God, so many things could be said. But, like, the thing with his sister. Mm-hmm. He has forgiven his sister.

Yeah. She was in a terrible position. How could you put someone in that position? Yeah. She was in a terrible position. How could you put someone in that position? Yeah. I mean, that's horrible. So that is the story of the, in my opinion, wrongful conviction of Crosley Green. Technically, it's not a wrongful conviction because, but I say. Yeah. Holy shit.

That is so upsetting. Yeah. I had never heard that one. Had you? No. Oh, I feel like that's a story everybody needs to hear. Yeah. I had never heard that one. Had you? No. Oh, I feel like that's a story everybody needs to hear. Yeah. And you know what, Brandy?

At some point there will be an ad here. Do-loo. Should we... And at some point we will come back from the ad. Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Sorry. Should we now take some questions from the Discord?

What a beautiful idea. How do people get in the Discord, Kristen? Well, you have to do terrible things to many people. Or you could just sign up for our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. And you get in and you chitty chat the day away. And you get to ask us some questions. And, you know, maybe we read your question on an episode yeah oh what this is a tough question ginger platypus wants to know now that bed bath and beyond is going under what will kristin shit in that's a good question

you know what i was thinking the other day? If they're going bankrupt, does that mean we can put their logo on a tote bag and sell it as your own toilet, portable toilet? I think no. Oh, all right. Well, that's just a question I had. Okay, this is the weirdest question that anyone has ever asked. Bethany says, do you agree that traffic isn't real? Like it's a state of mind? This is a hill I will die on, but it infuriates people when I bring it up.

But highways are basically endless, so it makes no sense that there is traffic at one point and it disappears a mile later. Like everyone could literally just go. It's a conspiracy. Bethany, what the hell are you talking about? I literally don't understand. Bethany thinks that traffic isn't real. It's a state of mind. Bethany.

No. No. No. No. Slut for Books wants to know, who of you can say, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood faster? Probably you.

Can you say it? How much wood would a woodchuck chuck? Oh, no. Let's hear it. How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? Everyone, there's a reason she read this question out loud. Absolutely, because I knew I could do it faster.

Yeah. That was not a mystery to anyone, Kristen. You're not making a giant reveal there. Reveal. Brandy's a douche. What? Oh, my. What?

Oh, my. When I was a district manager once to know if the LGTC crew were represented by different dog breeds, which breeds would they be? You're not going to read the rest of that? Because I read that question. In parentheses. See, I wanted to. I didn't think you'd heard it yet. I did.

I read it. Okay. I think Kristen would be a poodle. Curly hair. Hyper. Maybe a smidge awkward sometimes. Also super sexy. I want to fuck read it. Okay. I think Kristen would be a poodle. Curly hair. Hyper. Maybe a smidge awkward sometimes. Also super sexy. I want to fuck poodles. What?

Oh, my God. I totally agree. You would absolutely be a poodle. Really? Yeah. What would I be? Hmm. Hmm.

What would you be? Would you be an English bulldog? Something fancy? I mean, I kind of would think i think it'd be like a french bulldog or one of those okay well i don't know what those dogs are but one of those dogs with like the real long like silky oh yeah where you have to like constantly comb them or it gets matted i'm pretty high maintenance so i think i'd be one of those. It's true. Are we sure I wouldn't be a Great Dane? No, because you're not jumping all around.

I'm kind of dumb. I love a Great Dane. They're just like, they're huge. Yeah. They're not mean. No. They're just kind of like, they don't know their own strength. Yeah.

They're going to knock your face over. They want to sit in your lap. Because they don't know their own strength. Yeah. They're going to knock your face over. They want to sit in your lap. Because they don't know. Richard in Balls asks, what's London's birthday party going to be this year? Oh, my gosh. Okay. So I found the cutest stuff. London is very into dinosaurs these days.

And so she's turning three. So I picked out stuff for a T-Rex birthday party. Oh my. But then I was telling London about it and she said I don't want a T-Rex birthday party. T-Rex is too scary.

So may teeth. I want a long neck birthday party. Oh! I know exactly which dinosaur she means. And you said, but how am I going to get a pun for stegosaurus? Is that what it is? Stegosaurus?

What's the long neck? No, it's like a brontosaurus or a brachiosaurus. That's just me being a Great Dane right there. Jumping in with the wrong answer. Well, you better get on that, lady. Anyway, so it's a dinosaur-themed party. More specifics to be determined later. Oh, man.

My dad is here. Asks, how are the allergies treating you this spring? I thought I had made it through unscathed, but last Friday, the tree pollen hit me like a freight train. Tree pollen is like off the charts in our area right now. I have a headache right here, which I suspect is caused by my allergies. Yeah, I have what we call balloon head. Yeah, Right now. Yeah. So here's the problem. I'm an irresponsible adult and I could seal up my house and, you know, try to minimize my exposure to this pollen. But instead, the temperatures in the evenings have been just beautiful for having the windows open. So I've been sleeping with the windows open and waking up with the puffiest fucking eyes you've ever seen.

Makeup smeared every which way. Wow. I sleep so good with the windows open. Yeah, it's a real trade-off. Yeah, my dad the other day was like, your allergy's bothering you? Because my eyes

were so puffy. I was like, yeah, thanks, dad. How very rude. His were also very puffy. So he was like, you know. But he was like, I look great. No, he was pointing out his puffy eyes as well. Oh, man. Oh, God.

Kids bop for racists ask, a year without sex or a year without pasta. Goodbye, pasta. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I don't think it'd even be that hard. It would not. It would not be that hard. Yeah. Although do we say that? And then four months in, we're just like dying for pasta. Dying for some veggies. I'll even take that shitty Greek yogurt Alfredo Kristen makes. Oh, wow.

Wow. Oh, BigOven634 asks, Brandy, what hair straightener do you recommend? Mine's about to take a dump, and I am on the hunt for a new one. I mean, that's what she said. Don't blame me. That's what Big Oven 634 says. Big Oven 634. They even take a dump, right?

Anyway, okay, I think you want a flat iron with titanium plates. That's my biggest thing. I personally use the Babilis Nano Titanium. Love it. But really, any flat iron with titanium plates is what you're looking for. Best for your hair, in my opinion. There are lots of schools of thought on that. Wow.

I can see you tensing up right now. Well, no. Somebody else, some other stylist might listen to this and be like, well, that's not what I think. And that's fine. That's my personal opinion. We should preface this before any opinion. Identity Parade wants to know, I just started my first job that offers health insurance. What was your favorite perk at a job? Did you have a favorite perk at a job?

OK, well, when I was my very very first job when i worked at the pizza place every shift you worked you got to take home a pizza yeah that's awesome that's a wonderful perk okay my job in high school when i worked at tgi fridays yeah i was fucking in love with the fact that i got unlimited soda oh yeah all my shifts My shifts. Yeah. Dr. Pepper, I drank. Oh, and I could do a little cherry Coke. Oh, yeah. No problem. No one's counting the maraschino. I'll tell you that. Yeah, I love that. I have any like I feel like those were the only perks. I had a job once where there were lots of things you could earn. Like you could win trips and stuff by performing well.

Would you win? All kinds of stuff. Yeah, that's right. You won a trip to Cancun. I got to go to Cancun. I got to go to— Yeah, Lula Road did you right. No, stop it.

I got to go on a shopping spree at the Mall of America. How much did you get to spend? We got like a $500 gift card. Oh, that's pretty sweet. Yeah. I got to have breakfast at Tiffany's. What the hell? Yeah.

The company like rented out a Tiffany's for the morning. They served us breakfast there. And then, yeah, we got to spend like $300, which you can't get much at Tiffany's for $300. But still, it was really fucking cool. What kind of breakfast? Was it just a shitty breakfast? No, it was kind of like a pastries and mimosas type of situation. Sure, sure.

Yeah. That is cool. It was super cool. Yeah, well, at the newspaper. There were no perks. Yeah, that one time you got a cupcake on your desk, right? No, that was at the university.

Yeah, we would occasionally get some food. That was good. I liked getting the food. Also, when I worked at the pizza place, we would sometimes do food swaps. So another restaurant would call and be like, hey, are you guys interested in doing a food swap?

And then the manager would decide if we were, you know. Did you turn anybody down? Sometimes, like if it was too busy or something, we'd say no.

But the best ones were when we'd food swap with a Sonic. There was a Sonic kind of nearby. And so we'd get ice cream and they'd get pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

Yeah. Sorry, I just have never been a fan of the Sonic food. Yeah, I'm not a huge, I just have never been a fan of the Sonic food, so. Yeah, I'm not a huge fan. They have good mozzarella sticks. Where have you ever had bad mozzarella sticks? Oh, there's lots. I eat all of the mozzarella sticks.

You're kind of a connoisseur. I am a mozzarella stick connoisseur. I'm here to tell you there are lots of bad mozzarella sticks. Throw somebody under the bus who's got the bad ones. Tell us. Who has the worst? Arby's are lots of bad mozzarella sticks. Throw somebody under the bus who's got the bad ones. Tell us. Who has the worst? Arby's, not very good mozzarella sticks. Oh, that's not surprising.

Yeah. Also, mozzarella sticks in general are not typically a food that travels well. You kind of got to eat it while it's fresh at the restaurant. Not true for Sonic's mozzarella sticks. They travel very well. They get very crispy and somehow the cheese inside stays very melty. Hats off. My compliments to the Sonic chefs.

That's right. What kind of fucking question is this? Clark. I'm sorry. Clark Breckenridge, a.k.a. Lil Nut, wants to know, Kristen, do you have a favorite summer soup? What? I ignored that question because I don't even understand it. Yeah, soup is not a summer food.

We all know you love soups. I do love soups. Do you have a soup that you like in the summer? That's the question. I've got news for you. First of all, I hate gazpacho. Okay. Sounds too close to Gestapo.

Sure. And also cold soup's disgusting. No, I eat soup all year round. Whatever the fuck. Chili in July? Sure. You're making chili in July? Absolutely, I'm making chili in july you know what

when you when you had london oh you did you did make me chili yeah yeah and now i know that you were like no we ate the shit out of it i didn't even think about it being the summer exactly yeah there you go all right no i have no summer soups. I'm just a regular gal. All right. Should we move on to some Supreme Court inductions? Perhaps we shall. To get inducted on this podcast, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $7 level or higher. And we will induct you into the Supreme Court. Is it clear I'm not on my page? Brandi's stalling because she's not on the right page.

Supreme Court. Is it clear I'm not on my page? Brandi's stalling because she's not on the right page. We are reading your names and your first celebrity crush. What? Crushes? Crushes. You know, I was going to make fun of you because you were still scrolling, and then I made fun of myself by saying the wrong word.

That is embarrassing. Yep. Here we go. Kate Baker. Kevin Bacon. Helena Dane. Ewan McGregor. Gab is embarrassing. Yep. Here we go. Kate Baker. Kevin Bacon. Helena Dane. Ewan McGregor. Gabby Carney. Devin Sawa. Crystal. Eric

Stoltz. I know who that is but I think he's red haired. What's he from? He's from something. It's not coming to me. Anyway, we move on. Morgan Wendell. Gavin Rossdale from Bush. Brit 2. WWE wrestler Shawn Michaels.

Katie EG. Leonardo DiCaprio. Alexis Coleman. Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Victoria Mallott. Prince Eric from The Little Mermaid. Wendy Shock. Michael J. Fox.

Ashley Bellinger. Devin Sawa. Wendy Shock. Michael J. Fox. Ashley Bellinger. Devin Sawa. Kate Brown. The OG Robin from the 1966 Batman TV series. Wow, that is specific. It's Burt Ward. You skipped right over. Burt Ward. Oh, I'm, excuse me, Burt Ward.

My apologies. Val B. Miss Honey from the 1996 classic Matilda. Kelly V. Lisa Bonet. Samantha Houston. Zach Hansen. She says it was a little bit weird because I looked like a Hansen brother back then.

Dixon Sider. Sandra Bullock. B. Juliette Lewis. Amanda O'Connell Aaron Carter Alexandra Wilson Alex Harmon

Stevie Vince Vaughn Natalie Bill Pullman Tasha Wall Luke Perry Alicia Devin Sava again

Very popular Oh, Cassandra Rose. Stefan Urkel. Steve Urkel's hot alter ego. Natasha M. Everyone from B2K, the boy band. Lisa Kerwin. Devin Sawa again, my God.

Stephanie King. Jesse McCartney. Dana Fiorito. Zach Morris. Oh, Dr. Ash Price. AKA veterinarian. Yeah, that's not a typo. She's a doctor.

Very cool. Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Kira Avery. Leonardo DiCaprio. Welcome to the Supreme Court! Thank you, everyone, for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social

media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen, and then head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a five-star rating and review. Then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned! And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff then regurgitate

it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from multiple episodes of 48 Hours, The Washington Post, and newspapers.com. I got my info from multiple episodes of 48 Hours, The Washington Post, and Newspapers.com. I got my info from an episode of 48 Hours, The Hutchinson News, The Charlie Project, and the Garden City Telegram. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.