Let's Go To Court! - 254: An A*shole & a Psychic Vision

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

Brian Eftenoff was a bit of a douche. He was arrogant. Self centered. Controlling. But when he met a young Judi Harding at a bar in Phoenix, he laid on the charm. Judi was smitten. Soon, Brian and Judi moved in together. They got married. They had two children. Judi confided in her friends and family that Brian was abusive. So, when Brian discovered her dead one morning, he became a prime suspect. Then Brandi tells us about a woman whose psychic vision helped solve a crime. Etta Smith didn’t know Melanie Uribe, but when she heard about the young mother’s disappearance, Etta had an unexpected vision. She saw that Melanie was in a canyon, surrounded by shrubbery. Etta worried that police wouldn’t take her seriously, but she went to the police station anyway. She couldn’t shake the possibility that perhaps Melanie was still alive, and in desperate need of help. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Til Death Do Us Part,” by Paul Rubin for the Phoenix New Times “A Deadly Dose” episode of American Justice “The Final Straw,” by Paul Rubin for the Phoenix New Times “The Jerk” episode of Reasonable Doubt  “Reasonable Doubt: The Murder Trial,” by David Kohn for CBS News In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Suddenly Psychic” episode Psychic Investigators “Etta Smith Claims a Psychic Vision Showed Her the Location of a Murder Victim’s Body” by Nik Young, medium.com “Premonition Of Murder” segment Unsolved Mysteries “Psychics Helping Police Solve Crimes” Larry King Live Transcript, cnn.com “Three Young Suspects in Custody” upi.com “Adult Trial for Youth, 17” The Los Angeles Times “Police sued, false arrest main issue” by Associated Press, Napa Valley Register “False arrest might be movie material” by Richard Varenchik, Daily News “Psychic ‘Vision’ Suit Settled” by Jan Klunder, The Los Angeles Times YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 46+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Pond. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about an asshole. And I'll be talking about a psychic vision.

Oh, oh my God, what? Are you excited? Are you doing like a Miss Cleo thing? I don't know, and I know I'm not doing a Miss Cleo thing. I know't know. And I know I'm doing a Miss Cleo thing. Wow. Okay. Well, that's a huge letdown. Click.

That's the sound of everyone turning off the podcast. Why? Because they were excited about Miss Cleo. Why did you say that? If I was talking about Miss Cleo, I'd say, call me now for your free tarot reading. You led us to believe with your psychic vision talk. Blah, blah, blah. Anyway, hello, everyone.

That is way more a you case than it is a me case. I know. I know. A girl can dream, though, I guess. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Everyone, if you're wondering why I sound a little sleepy, a little tired, it's because I was hanging out with Janet Jackson last night.

Translation, she went to the Janet Jackson concert. Janet Jackson and Luda kept me up until 11. How was Luda? Did he seem like an asshole? He brought a lot of energy to the crowd, which I appreciated. Now, the misogyny in those 2001 lyrics, I mean, it's really remarkable to hear with today's ears. And then he did a thing where he was like, you know, women, you've been through a lot in the past couple years. He was like, now you're making more money than men. You know, kind of, you know, trying to pump up us ladies. And it worked.

But at the same time, you know. Yeah. I told you my Ludacris story, didn't I? Not my client. I forgot about that story. Yeah. Oh, well, now you have to tell it again. Yeah.

So I had a client who was a hostess at like a fancy restaurant down in Power and Light. And he came in after his show one night and like they gave him like a private booth and like gave him everything was good with him. And at the end of the night, like he was like wrapping it up, but like not leaving. And she's like, you know, is there anything else we can do for you? And Ludacris said, actually, you know, this this night has been wonderful. You've you've taken really great care of us. The only thing you haven't done is offered to comp the bill. Dear God. Yeah. Dear God. only thing that you haven't done is offered to comp the bill dear god yeah dear god uh-huh my client said she was so taken aback by it she was just like oh okay sure i'm i'm i'll go talk to the manager and I'll be back. Hey, sometimes audacity works. You did.

You did. They comped his bill. They asked him to make sure he took care of the servers and then they comped his bill. Yeah. Good God. Anyway. Yeah. So I saw him perform.

That's why I'm so tired today. Yes. Oh, my. How does she do it? Yeah. I'm very professional. Yes, you are are That's right Why'd you narrow your eyes at me?

Oh, I was expecting you to have some funny zinger throwing my way Instead you were just agreeing that I'm professional and great Which doesn't feel authentic Oh, okay Anyhow, what should we plug here right off the top Your butt We were Preparing to record and Chris was like

Someone farted in the kitchen And Brandy Had recently been in the kitchen I was nowhere near the kitchen Everyone knows that Okay Anyway To find out who farted in my kitchen

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Won't you? I feel like you from last week, this week. What's that mean? Sexy? Yeah, that's what I meant. No, just like not ready to focus. Oh, shit. You know what?

I also didn't take my... You didn't take your caboose? No, you saw me. I was in the kitchen farting. Oh, damn. Spoiled the mystery. No, I, you know, you just get what you get today, friends. Okay.

Although, you know, oh, gosh, maybe we should pause so I can get properly medicated. Yeah. Medication break. I've got bad news for you, lady. What? While I was downstairs getting my medication, I remembered something that I had wanted to confront you with since Monday. Since Monday?

Brandy, if you'll recall, on Monday we had a business meeting. We sure did. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What happened? What are you confronting me about? Oh, well, you're about to find out. Bitch.

So everyone picture it, please. Brandy and I are in a conference room. We're meeting with someone. Okay, the person steps out. I, like a good friend, turn to my friend Brandy and I said, you've got something on your shoulder. Why are you telling the people this? So she just had some, you know, crust. Yeah, there were like some particles.

And so she brushes off. She's like, oh, gosh, thanks. Okay. All right. So the lady comes back. We continue the meeting. I notice the lady keeps looking at me in my eyeballs and I'm thinking man she's really she's really you know I did notice that she was making very strong eye

contact with you yeah what did you make of that I didn't know what to make of it but I 100% noticed it here's what I made of it I was like she thinks I'm more important than Brandy I was like, she thinks I'm more important than Brandy. I was like offended, but also complimented. Well, I kind of thought that probably along that same line, but because the meeting was under your name. No, no, because she looked at us and she's like, this one right here. This one's the one to make eye contact with. So that's what I'm thinking, right? For the entire meeting, blah, blah, blah. Just like, wow, I'm getting the eye contact business.

Then I get into my car. I look in my rearview mirror. I realize that I have mascara all over my eyelids. You did? Yes. And my friend didn't tell me. I didn't notice it. Okay.

Well, then I guess this confrontation has been wasted. Because I drove home that whole way. I was like, that bitch. No, I didn't notice. I told her about this. It could not have been all over. Oh, it was all over my eyelids. You know, I've got kind of moist, dewy skin.

Yeah. Because of all the products. Youthful glow. Yes. And like the mascara had transferred to basically my brow bone. Did not see that at all. I absolutely would have told you had I noticed that. All right.

It couldn't have been that noticeable then. That woman really scared me. Okay, I will back you up on that. I noticed that she was making hard eye contact with you and I thought it was a little odd. And now you know that it was because I thought it was a little odd. And now you know that it was because my eye makeup

was fucking jacked. Anyway, should I tell a story now? Yeah, probably. I think that's what the people tuned in for. Gosh, the confrontation didn't go as dramatically as I thought it would. Yeah, how did you anticipate it going? I thought you'd be like, well, here's why I didn't tell you.

Blah, blah, blah. And I'd be like, that's not good enough. And then, you know. No, I simply did not notice it, ma'am. Okay. I didn't anticipate that you would just lie like this. All right. I'm not lying.

Are you ready to hear about an asshole? Yeah. Are you talking about your own butthole and how you lost? is this the tale of how you lost your butthole to me? This is how you find out that you're being served. I looked at the spot where my asshole used to be in the mirror and I said, let's go to court. I like to think that this is someone's first episode right here, right now. Yeah, it definitely is. And they're hearing a ridiculous story about us in a business meeting, me trying to start a fight with you, failing, and then you saying that I have no butthole.

Uh-huh. Yeah, all those things did just happen, and it is somebody's first episode. Welcome to the show. Yeah. At least it's not the episode where we talked about the butthole-licking contest at the beginning. I wasn't there for that one. You were. That was guest hosted by someone awful, obviously.

I bring a certain class and sophistication to this program. Yes, the Grace Kelly of podcasting. We all know. Brandy, do you know this case? I mean, no. Based on the name you sent me, no, I don't. Yeah. No.

I was going to say based off of this, but no. Based off of the name that you sent me, no, I don't. Yeah. No. I was going to say based off of this, but no. Based off of the name that you sent me, no, I do not know it. Excellent. All right. A hugest of shout outs to Paul Rubin, who did a ton of what? Pee Wee Herman? Is that Pee Wee Herman's real name? Paul Rubin's, but yeah, I believe.

Yeah, I think this is a different fella. Rubin's. Rubin's case, Rubin's, Capiano and Bryant. I think it is a different fella. Rubens. Rubens case. Rubens, Campeano, and Bryant. I think it's called Rubens. I'm so glad we paused for this. You're welcome. I told you that I am you from last week.

Is this your revenge? Is that what you're trying to tell me? I think it is. We had a deeply unsatisfying lunch today. We did. It sucked. It sucked so bad. Every now and then Norm tries to get us to broaden our horizons try a new

place and boy when it's not good we let him hear it yeah yeah anyhow yeah uh paul rubin okay who i don't believe is peewee herman or part of rubin's case rubinen's coming on Owen Bryant. Right. Did a lot of great reporting for the Phoenix New Times back in the day. Okay. And also I watched an episode of American Justice. Oh. Love that show. Also from back in the day. Yeah.

Is that show still on? You know, I think they started it up again. Oh, okay. But this episode I found like. It's the oldie one. I found it on like the dark web, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

You're on 4chan looking this up. Wait, is that still around? Is 4chan still a thing? I don't know. I have no idea. I'm sorry to tell you. You'll have to Google that on your own time, man. No, I'm not Googling 4chan.

All right. Here we fortune. All right. Here we go. Picture it. It was the 1980s, and Brian Eftenoff was a bit of a douche. Oh. A self-described jet setter. No. Brian was extremely fond of everything about himself.

Everything? Yeah. What's not to love? Oh, okay. He was handsome. Uh-huh. Really handsome. Was he?

Yeah. Okay. What else does he have going for him? First, let's keep talking about how hot he is. God damn. All right. Dude looked like a Ken doll. He was tan. Smooth from the All right. Dude looked like a Ken doll. He was tan and tall and blonde and had a smooth lump where his penis should be.

I'm sorry for messing your joke up. I just like that that's exactly where both our minds went. To be clear, I have no idea what his lump looks like. That's disgusting. I'm sorry, I took it too far. Anyway, Brian didn't exactly play by the rules, Brandy, because he didn't need to. He grew up in Indiana. By the time he was 20 years old, both of his parents had passed away.

So he moved out to California. old, both of his parents had passed away, so he moved out to California. His sister later said that she figured he would either become a millionaire or wind up on Skid Row. Oh. And that was a pretty good assessment. Because fairly quickly after he arrived in California, Brian began making good money. Doing what? By being the ringleader of a cute little criminal enterprise. Okay. Where, you know, you just go steal shit from Beverly Hills people. You ever tried that? No. Take some

rare coins, you know. Some stuff. I assume you go to a pawn shop. Yeah, probably. Should we start a crime ring right now? I'm the leader! Believe me, apparently it's easy to tell. What's happening with you over there?

I mean, just drips are happening. Just drips, and I respect wood, so... Yeah, do you have a coaster over there? No, you don't. No respect for wood. Anyway, what are you... The lady at our meeting could clearly tell you were the ringleader. No, she was like, how did Tammy Faye get in here? Anyway, what are you? The lady at our meeting could clearly tell you were the ringleader. No.

She was like, how did Tammy Faye get in there? You for sure did not look like Tammy Faye. I 100% would have noticed that. Anyway. It inspired me to grab, okay, all right, I need to do do like a heavy duty eyeshadow primer because I've been trying concealer lately. Oh, yeah. It doesn't work for me. NYX has a really nice primer.

That's what I use. Okay. Because I have hooded eyes. And so I get like, if I don't use a primer, then I do get lots of transfer. So not from mascara because I have lash extensions, but from my eyeliner. So anyway, this is too much detail. Nobody cares. It's a lot of detail.

And I'm glad we're giving it to the people, you know, they want to know. You want to talk more about my hooded eyes? Anyway, so he's the ringleader of a criminal enterprise. Okay, that's right. But all good burglary rings must come to an end. One of the guys snitched on the rest of the guys. Oh, that is rough. And so Brian came after that guy with a baseball bat.

And long story short, in 1984, Brian took a plea deal, and he headed off to prison for three years for receiving stolen property. Before he went off to prison, he got married. But Brian is not a fun guy to be married to. And so a few years after he got out of prison, Brian and his first wife divorced. But don't worry. By 1990, Brian was doing just fine.

What was he doing now? He owned a Porsche. How'd he get a Porsche? By going to a Porsche dealer and getting a Porsche. What kind of business has he been in that is making money for him to buy a Porsche? How about you slow down?

Okay? First, I'd like to tell you about the lifestyle. Oh, okay. Okay, so... Lifestyles! Oh, God. All the rich and the famous. They're always complaining. Oh, okay. Okay, so. Lifestyles. Oh, God. All the rich and the famous. They're always complaining. Always complaining.

Anyhow. He owned a Porsche. He was killing it with the ladies. Because handsome. He loved a nightclub. Loved popping bottles. He loved recreational drugs. Oh, what was he using recreationally?

You know. Little pot, little Coke. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also, fun fact about him, he hated when women rejected him. Yeah, that's not surprising uh for example one time he was in the parking lot of a restaurant

and he tried hitting on these two women and they weren't interested because they were bitches you know and brian got pissed and so he went to speed off in his porsche and when he did he decided to be like extra cool and rev the engine as he peeled out but when he did that the car stalled and the women laughed at him and brian got really mad because it wasn't funny do you do you want to hear a 10 pounds fun fact along along those lines sure okay so when my dad was younger there was like a period of time that he had a motorcycle. Cool. Yeah. He thought he was pretty cool on his motorcycle.

Yeah. And he was sitting at a red light on his motorcycle. And the way I remember it, he'll probably tell you this is different, but there was a car next to him, some hot ladies in it. In my mind, it was a convertible, but I don't know that that's true. Yes, yes. And he glanced over and was trying to be cool. And they were clearly looking at him. Oh, yeah. And then the light turned green and his shoelace was stuck on his, like, on the motorcycle somehow.

And he ended up toppling over. Was he in, like,? I don't know. So how many digits did your dad get that day? He got many digits. Oh, that's weird. Well, let me tell you what this guy did when he was rejected by the ladies. He got out of his car and had physical contact with the women oh yeah no 10 pounds fun fact he did not do that well that's only because he couldn't catch up to

you got his new balance stuff so although we are obviously on brian's side in this whole altercation how dare these ladies turn him down? Obviously, they were gay. I mean, there's no other explanation. Do you remember when that was the thing? Yeah. Oh, yeah, you're not interested in me? Must be gay.

Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, the cops didn't see it that way, Brandy. And so Brian ended up pleading no contest to battery charges, and he was put on probation. OK. But don't worry. Brian didn't let those blind lesbians get him down.

Uh-huh. By this point, he was living in Phoenix and he was very active in the nightclub scene. And he had a very successful business selling wholesale auto parts and car alarms. Remember, this was back in the day when, like, you would go near a car and be like. Absolutely. The dude was rich. He could have any woman he wanted, except for those bitches who laughed at him. He could have any woman he wanted, except for those bitches who laughed at him.

And so one night, Brian and his best friend Nick went out to a club called Jets with a Z. Oh, were they hoping to cool their jets? Oh. Yeah, maybe they were. Actually, no, because cool your jets means relax, right? Yeah, they were just going to relax and cool. No, that's not his vibe. What the hell is wrong with you? He's speeding off in a Porsche.

He's the ringleader of a burglary crew. He's not trying to cool anything. Perhaps he should have been looking for a club called Sharks. She's very proud of herself. I am. You're welcome. Okay. She's very proud of herself. I am. You're welcome. Okay.

It was at Jets with a Z that Brian spotted a truly gorgeous woman. She had legs for days, thick, lustrous hair, a big smile. And Brian turned to his buddy Nick and said, Was that your stomach? It was my stomach. I thought we were going to ignore that. Because I was mid-fucking-sentence when my body betrayed me. I'll grant you it sounded pretty low in my stomach.

Might not have been my stomach. Might not have been. But again. It was close to your butt, I think. See, it's interactions like these that make me think you did know that my mascara had traveled nearly to my forehead. I did not know. The mics 100% would not have picked that up. The stomach noise?

Yes. Oh, I bet they did. No, no. picked that up. The stomach noise? Yes. Oh, I bet they did. No. No. Everyone go back 30 seconds and you listen for what sounds like the most adorable fart maybe you've ever heard. You won't hear it. I guarantee it. Patty, rewind. Thick, lustrous hair. Anyhow, Brian turned to his buddy Nick and said, that was just a joke. That was my mouth.

So stupid. We're professional podcasters. We sure are. Okay, I don't know if you ever have this experience when you're meeting someone new and they ask you what you do. Oh, well, you probably don't because you also do hair and stuff yeah but i'll tell them about the podcast and then because that's such a ridiculous answer people are kind of like you know they try to find a polite way to be right but what do you do to make money and yeah the answer is i fart in a room and a mic maybe picks it up and people giggle they do giggle sometimes

anyhow brian turned to his buddy nick and said i own that i'm gonna get that gross uh-huh oh my god yep hate it hate it by the way nick tells this story like it is just a hoot. Yeah. It's like Glenn Guglia. Who? Did you make someone up just now? No, that's the man that Drew Barrymore is marrying in The Wedding Singer. I think his name's Glenn.

My God, what? Yeah, he calls women grade A choice meat. Ew. Yeah. Sounds exactly like what this douche would say. Yeah. Fair. What's his name, Glenn?

I have no idea. Anyhow, Brian went over, introduced himself, I assume. But who knows? He might have done one of those douchey moves where he's like, send her over. I'm fully making that part up. I'm just getting a vibe, you know? Yeah, it seems on brand. The gorgeous woman was Judy Harding.

She was quite a bit younger than Brian. How much younger? About 10 years. He was 32. She was 22. And they'd had very different life experiences. By that point, for those who are keeping track, Brian had been to prison. He'd been married and divorced. He'd started his own business. And Judy was a college student. Yeah, she's 22. Yep. Judy was from Mandan, North Dakota. I think that's how you pronounce that.

Who knows? Could be North Dakota. Who knows? She was the second of four children, and she was fun and outgoing, and after she graduated high school, she enrolled at North Dakota State University, where she joined a sorority and met her best friend, Tamara Colwell. And after a while, Judy and Tamara were like, hey, wait, what the hell? Why are we living in cold ass North Dakota? Let's go somewhere warm.

So they transferred to Arizona State University, and they enjoyed themselves. Yeah, it's party school. Then one night, Judy met Brian. Judy was smitten. She was immediately gaga over him. You're making a face like you don't like it one bit, but I'm sorry. That's just where we're going with this tale. Judy's friends did not like this man.

They thought that Brian was arrogant, controlling. Yes. Sort of a douche. Yes. But Judy really liked him. The two of them began dating, and within just a few months of meeting each other, they began living together. Okay. Brandy's raising her eyebrows, but she really can't talk.

I can't. I have no room for judgment here. Because you see, she and David met on a hookup app, and 12 minutes after meeting each other, they combined their finances. They moved in, and Brandy was eight months pregnant somehow. That's not far off from the actual timeline. So,

they're living together, but it was a pretty wild time, I gotta say. Oh, yeah? Just like you and David. Brian's buddy Nick was their roommate. They all loved to go out together. They loved to drink. They loved to dance. They did some drugs.

Not ibuprofen. Yeah, I was guessing not. Harder than ibuprofen. Uh-huh. Extra strength, my friend. Everything was great, sort of. Was it? Yeah, great, sort of. What's? Yeah, great, sort of. What's the sort of?

Don't worry about it. Okay. At some point when she was just a few credits shy of graduating, Judy dropped out of college. I didn't see anyone go into this, so this is just me speculating. Yeah. I don't think it's any accident that she quit just before she was about to get that degree. Well, yeah, that seems very influenced. Yes. Yes.

Did you hear my stomach again? I sure did. Oh, my God. I feel like I've got a cauldron. I'm sitting on a cauldron. I'm creating my own witch's brew right now. You're a bubbly. What if I don't survive

this episode? It's possible. You're just going to shoot through the ceiling. How would you explain it to the people? I don't even know because I'd probably be pretty concerned by whatever, you know, overflow may have splashed my way. Are you serious? I rocket through the roof, land God knows where, you hear my scream, then you don't hear it anymore, and you're like, oh, some of it got on me? That is terrible, ma'am.

Try again. You know, this is so ridiculous. It was even more ridiculous as if this is the second time we have had to explore this hypothetical on this podcast? No, we haven't.

What are you talking about? Me rocketing out of my seat propelled by my own farts. Yes. And you not caring about anything but yourself and whatever substance might get on your hoodie. Yeah. You know, that makes it even worse. Because you have an emotional support camisole underneath everything, so you could just take it off. I can't only wear the cami.

What if your friend shot off from the butt and is possibly dead? Then could you make an exception? Yes, I could make an exception then. She wouldn't make an exception. But I would feel very uncomfortable. You'd take the curtains off my wall like a sound of music. Yes, the emotional support, Cammie, is not a standalone piece of equipment. Right.

Piece of equipment. Piece of clothing. I love that you're such a never-new. And it's like, this is not merely a garment. This is my armor that I wear every day. Yes. I have my shower camisole. You know what?

I think I need to tell you right now that if you farted out of this room and landed in the bushes somewhere, I would be very concerned about you and you alone. Who's the better person? Obviously you. I guess it's Kristen. You alone. Who's the better person? Obviously you. I guess it's Kristen. That's why we had to sing this song. Brandy didn't give a shit. Quinn, Kristen died of a fart attack.

Anyway, please stop interrupting. I'm talking to my butt. Of course. So, yeah, she dropped out of college. We believe she was pushed into dropping out. Yeah, because we know how this shit works. All right. Because if she gets a degree, she would have the capability to dump his ass and get away and get her own life.

And he doesn't have a degree, so what do you think? You're better than me. He would see that 100% as a threat. Yes. She got a job working in the men's department at Neiman Marcus. Oh, shit. I know. That sounds very cool.

It does sound cool, doesn't it? Yes. And in 1993, Judy became pregnant. It definitely doesn't seem like this was a planned pregnancy, but at the same time, they seemed to know exactly what they wanted to do. They wanted to get married. Judy's family was not happy about this marriage. Stop me if this is starting to sound familiar, but they thought Brian seemed like a douche. No, I do feel like I've heard that before. Yeah.

And boy, those thoughts were confirmed because on Brian and Judy's wedding day, he kind of threw a fit because he didn't like Judy's wedding dress. Wow. Can you believe that? No, I can't fucking imagine that! Yeah.

He didn't like her wedding dress? Yeah, and he evidently let everybody know, I guess. That's awful. Also, she's pregnant, so she's probably feeling pretty vulnerable. Yeah. Anyway. Also, this is cute. Brian apparently owed Judy's parents some money, and, you know, he just didn't pay it back.

You know. Mm-hmm. You know, whoops. So things were tense. But then Judy gave birth to a beautiful little girl they named Ricky. And a couple of years later, they had a son named Nicholas. And that was wonderful. Did they call him Ricky and Nikki? Yeah, of course they did. Don't you think?

I mean, I guess I don't. I'm not 100%, but I am 100%. I am, yes. All right. From the outside looking in, the Eftinovs were doing great. They were a beautiful family. I mean, truly, this is like the most gorgeous family. And they had a beautiful home in the foothills. Brian's business was expanding.

What's his business? Car alarms. Oh, that's right. expanding. What's his business? Car alarms. Oh, that's right. Sorry. Yeah. What's it look like from the inside looking out? Okay. Here we go.

So they were able to hire some nannies and maids and basically, you know, they had kind of whatever help they needed. And the people who worked for the Eftinovs pretty quickly saw that Brian and Judy's marriage was rocky. First off, even though Brian was a lot older than Judy, he was still really into clubbing, really into going out to bars, loved to gamble until all hours of the night. And, you know, Judy wasn't exactly a pilgrim herself, but motherhood had kind of chilled her out a bit. So that kind of created some tension. Also, Brian and Judy argued a lot. One nanny said that on more than one occasion, Judy kicked him out of the house. She said she'd also seen Brian try to drunkenly hit Judy.

Oh, gosh. she said she'd also seen brian try to drunkenly hit judy oh gosh she said that brian constantly berated judy for her weight awesome yeah so the nanny was kind of stunned by this because judy was tiny yeah i imagine she hardly ate anything and yet brian went on and on about how fat she was yeah it's because it's not about that yeah yeah it's about making her feel terrible about herself so she doesn't leave him yeah yep also they would have threesomes and stuff and you know that's i love how you're saying that so casually you know they did sometimes have threesomes and that's fine everybody's cool and like yeah that's some people's thing. Well, here's so here's what I hate about it. So Brian presents this as like, hey, if I'm going to cheat, it's going to be with you there.

So, you know, good deal for you. But like they talked to Judy's friends and they were like, yeah, she went along with that to kind of keep the peace. That was not her thing. Yeah. So we love that. Yeah, this is so great. Judy began confiding in her friends and family about how volatile the relationship had gotten. One time, Judy called her friend Joellen Wick to say that Brian had beaten her up. Joellen called Judy's mom and called the police, but no charges were ever filed. Joellen later said, you can't force someone to leave a situation they aren't prepared to leave. And it's true. Yeah. Judy discussed the abuse with her family, and at one point, one of her sisters warned her that if she didn't get out of her relationship with brian she'd wind up dead and judy seems to have been very aware of the risks at one point

she got one of those safe deposit box is it a safety deposit box or a safe deposit box i don't know the answer to that i think they call it a safety deposit. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was so stupid. I apologize. Friends don't dance and if they don't dance, then they're no friends of mine. She put on a poncho when I pooped my way out of the house. I was like, who put on a poncho? You did.

Yeah, I got to protect my sweatshirt. Yeah, betrayal. Hmm. Yeah, I got to protect my sweatshirt. Yeah, betrayal. Judy filled it with jewelry and important documents and some handwritten notes about how Brian had treated her. Oh, really? Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, this is the thing that happens where someone knows that they are in a really bad, dangerous situation. Yeah. Yeah. And you know that leaving is the most dangerous time. So, I mean, it's didn't Nicole Brown do kind of the same thing of, I don't know. I would have to go back and there's been so little research done on that trial.

So I would have to really dig, but yeah, they, yeah, they kind of know who would be after them. And. Oh, it's awful. She told her sister that if anything ever happened to her, she should open that box.

One time, Judy called her friend Tamara and said that she and Brian had gotten into a physical fight. She said she worried that her jaw Brian had gotten into a physical fight. She said she worried that her jaw was broken. Oh my gosh. Years went by and more people witnessed more abusive behavior. Friends said that on a weekend in Las Vegas in 1998, Brian took some ecstasy and he wanted Judy to take some too, but she didn't want to. So he grabbed her by the face and shoved it in her mouth. So she had no choice. Yeah. According to some of Judy's, oh my, what I wrote here for you today is according to some of Judy's friend, Tamara, you know what? I think Tamara's like 100% said this, not just part of her.

Yes, ma'am. What? You have questions? The part I witnessed was the mouth. Anyway, in February of 1999, Judy had enough. She told Tamara, I'm going to leave him. I can't do this anymore. So Judy was reaching her breaking point. And in the meantime, Brian could not get it together. He couldn't stop gambling, couldn't stop partying. His business, which had been so successful, was starting to suck ass because, you know, he basically wasn't doing his job. So that'll put a real... Yeah, we'll put a real damper on that.

Also, maybe around this time, people were like, hey, maybe we don't need car alarms to go so often that everyone ignores them. Yes. Around Memorial Day of that year, Brian and Judy got into a massive fight. Judy ended up calling the neighbors to come help her. The dude placed himself in front of Brian and told them both to calm down, and Brian referred to Judy as a co-core. Oh, my God. I totally—

What? It took me a second to process what you said. I heard that word as cocore. Oh. And I was like – Parkour? What the fuck is that? And then I realized that what you said was cocore.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you've caught up with me today. You're welcome. I realize I'm moving very, very fast through this story. Haven't had a single tangent. No, no. Just stuck to the facts of the case this whole time. All the time around here. According to some part of me, that's what I say.

In September of that year, Judy took the kids out to North Dakota for a little visit with her family. And when she came back, you know, people noticed she was a little jittery, I guess. Brian's assistant remembers seeing Judy at the house and noticing how busy she was. She said she was all over the place, cleaning every possible thing. I thought it was really strange, kind of in a frenzy. What are they suggesting, that she's, like, using drugs? Nothing is being suggested. I'm just telling you what someone noticed.

Okay. On September 23, 1999, Brian decided he wanted to have a night out on the town. He called up his buddy, Nick, and they decided they were going to go have a good time. So they were going to go to a local bar to see the lingerie show. Then they'd go to a casino, and, you know, they'd get home whenever. Did they name their son after his friend? I assume, don't you? Yeah, probably.

Is he a real good guy i mean i doubt it he's best friends with brian oh and you know i'll let you make up your own opinion here let me tell you some more about nick um nick's wife was pregnant and he had to fly out to Pittsburgh at 7 a.m. the next morning to be with her and their family for some kind of trip. But, yeah, why not go out the night before and, you know, get crazy, get wild. That night, Nick went over to Brian and Judy's house and he's pretty sure he never saw Judy that evening. But Brian said he did. He kissed her goodbye. She gave him her ATM card.

She let him use her BMW to drive around that night. And the two guys took off. What the hell's wrong with your face? What's wrong? Why did she give him her ATM card? I don't know. Okay. Ever heard of generosity? Do they have separate accounts. I don't know. Okay. Ever heard of generosity?

Do they have separate accounts? I don't know. Okay. Brandy. Okay, all right. I just know what Brian said. Okay. Okay.

So the guys took off, leaving Judy with the two kids who were five and three. Brian and Nick had a good time. Don't worry. Okay, well, it started off a little rocky. They went to the bar and they were devastated to discover that the lingerie show had ended. So, you know, they just had a beer. Then they went to an ATM and then they went to the grocery store to buy some vodka. What?

What? What? That's the weirdest night out ever. What? What? What? That's the weirdest night out ever. What? What's wrong? All right. You ever miss the lingerie show and then you got to go get some supermarket vodka? No.

Someone doesn't know how to have a good time. Then they went to the casino. Uh-huh. time. Then they went to the casino. Uh-huh. At around 4 a.m., Nick was like, okay, I'm ready to leave now. I'm done.

Keep in mind, these dudes are like our age. They're like older than us at this point. Can you imagine? One of them has two children and one of them has a child on the way. Both of them have wives. Uh-huh. I can't't imagine i don't know that i could stay up till 4 a.m if i really wanted to it would be a special

ass occasion and this does not seem like it was a special ass so nick's like okay i'm ready to leave i need to go home and you know i assume pack for his flight because I bet he was not packed. Well, he's probably got to check in at the airport soon. But Brian was like, no. He didn't want to leave because he was doing a great job gambling and didn't want to stop. I guess another way to put it was winning. He was doing a great job gambling. Eventually, Nick got him to leave.

And, of course, as they were leaving, they got a flat tire because, you know, why wouldn't you? And by the time they finally got to Brian's house, it was like 5.15 in the morning. Nick might have gone inside to use the bathroom or maybe use the phone. He doesn't know? Can't really. Yeah, it's kind of fuzzy okay but he knows he didn't see anything like unusual or wild okay so calm down then he left and at some point brian went into the primary bedroom

and into the attached bathroom and he freaked out. Judy was crouched face down in the fetal position. She was bruised. She was non-responsive. He rolled her over and saw blood dripping from her nose. Oh my gosh. He called 911 in a panic. He said, my wife is bruised everywhere. I don't know what's going on. He began performing CPR. He said, baby, don't you do this to me. I can't raise those kids on my own. Baby, stay with me. She's bruised everywhere. Either somebody broke in and beat the shit out of her or just something's wrong, please. He told the dispatcher that Judy was bruised everywhere and that her face was bloody. The dispatcher asked, like, somebody beat her up? And he said, somebody beat her bad or something.

The dispatcher asked if she was breathing, and he said she was. What? As she was what as in maybe earlier first got in there okay the ambulance arrived and paramedics discovered that judy's body was cold to the touch rigor mortis had said so she was not breathing no i mean it doesn't seem possible no investigators arrived on the scene and brian sent the kids to go stay at a neighbor's house No, I mean, it doesn't seem possible. Investigators arrived on the scene and Brian sent the kids to go stay at a neighbor's house. At one point, a police officer was interviewing the Eftinov's nanny and the cop was very surprised when he saw Brian look at the nanny and do that gesture where you drag your index finger across your throat. What? Oh, signifying that she's dead, not like I'm going to kill you. Hmm.

Interesting. Who knows, right? Yeah. At first I was like, is he threatening the nanny? Mm-hmm. Yeah, is he? It's possible, I guess. So my, I don't know, the more logical portion of my brain says he's probably like doing a very inappropriate gesture to signify that his wife has died. Yes.

So that's what he says. He says, first of all, he doesn't remember doing this at all. But if he did it, that's exactly what he was doing. He was communicating to the nanny that Judy was dead. Okay. And obviously in like, why would you do it that way? Yeah. Anyhow, people were so sad to hear about Judy, obviously.

She'd only been 30 years old. She had two young children. She had so much life left to live. But Brian couldn't help but think about himself. I'm sure that he couldn't help but think about himself. I'm sure that he couldn't. Well, hang on. He was the one who was going to have to raise the kids by himself. Look at the mess that he was in, Brandy.

Shouldn't people be more focused on him? No. Agree to disagree. Investigators asked Brian if they could take him in for questioning and he said sure on the way to the station he made some small talk side note folks my neighbor is using his leaf blower so is that what that is yeah that's 100 when it is sorry about that detective joe petrosino was assigned to the case and and he was the one who questioned Brian that morning. And right off the bat, Brian kind of gave him the heebie-jeebies. Mm-hmm.

Because the thing was, Judy's cause of death was not immediately clear. This was not like, oh, for sure a homicide. And yet one of the first things that Brian said to the police was, I have an alibi. Okay. He told the detective all about his night. I added a lot of extra syllables there. I thought it sounded great. It did.

What? So that whole night out was to, was to set an alibi? I don't know. But nobody even, nobody what? Nobody what? Nobody even saw Judy before they went out, did they? Did Nick see Judy?

Brian did. Oh, Brian thinks he did, is what you said. No, he didn't. Brian's pretty sure he saw her that day. He kissed her goodbye. He got the ATM card. Sorry, excuse me. Nick is unsure if he saw her or not, which is weird as fuck, but okay.

No, it's not. Yes, it is. If I came to pick you up, I would 100% know if I saw Norm or not. Well, Norm has a very, very magnetic presence. You would notice him right away. If I was asked, did you see Norm? I could say yes or no. It wouldn't be like, did I see Norm?

Probably. I probably saw Norm. No, I would know. Okay. Well, sorry. Sorry. You think maybe you're a little different from a man who's going to a lingerie show and then buying supermarket vodka? I mean, yes, obviously I'm different, but I don't think this is like a huge stretch to imagine that this guy could remember clearly yes or no.

All right. All right. Well, anyway, the detective asked Brian about his relationship with Judy, and he asked if they ever fought. And Brian was just perfect and nothing was wrong. No, no, no. What's he say? He asked if they ever fought, and Brian said, of course. Okay.

Yeah. But he said their fights were verbal fights, not physical. said their fights were verbal fights, not physical. And then Brian said, and I love this, let me just tell you my rule. I have a ton of respect for women, but if you're going to act like a guy, you get treated like a guy. Smack me inche yep yep and what a weird thing to say after you've explained that your your arguments aren't physical yeah clearly they are they are yeah but you're trying to come up with a way where it's not your fault yes and so if a woman acts like a guy then yeah you can do whatever now there's a fucking dove cooing outside this episode's a mess

toward the end of the interview brian did admit that Judy used cocaine. You know, she took diet pills. The cocaine made sense. Investigators had found some cocaine in the house, so that tracked. So, you know, the detectives just kind of making notes of everything. And then Brian began asking the questions. Oh, did he? Did they suspect foul play? Was he a suspect?

And the detective was kind of like, slow your roll. I don't know. I think I'd probably ask those questions, too. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But the detective wanted him to slow down.

Okay. But Brian was incapable of slowing down. He couldn't possibly. Soon Judy's death made the news and Brian took it upon himself to hold a press conference in his driveway. At that press conference he read a statement about how great the police were and how they hadn't treated him like a suspect and they'd kept him calm when he was upset and blah blah blah and hey everybody make sure you spend a lot of time with your wife and kids you know it's important okay so that was you know a little odd yeah and then at judy's funeral, Brian did a totally cool normal thing where he went up to Judy's grieving parents and asked them how long after a death like this he would need to wait before he got remarried.

At the funeral he asked this? Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. Can you imagine? No. No. Later, Brian popped on over to Neiman Marcus.

He wanted to use Judy's employee discount. Just one last time for old time's sake. He was surprised that he could no longer use her employee discount. Yeah, that's how that works. But should it, Brandy? Yes. Must it? Yeah.

Okay. Meanwhile, investigators looked into Judy's death. The medical examiner performed Judy's autopsy, looked at the bruises to her body. She had a bruise on her neck, on her cheek. She had a bruise on her thigh. She had broken blood vessels on her right eyelid. She had some other kind of minor scrapes and stuff. He also found hemorrhaging in Judy's throat and internal damage to her neck.

Strangulation? Not quite. Okay? Not quite. Okay. Not quite. I'm trying to think of how this was worded in the article. But it was basically like maybe someone had strangled her possibly for a little while. Possibly. Possibly.

But it couldn't have been the cause of death. Okay. He discovered blunt force trauma to her head. And undigested cocaine in her stomach. Which maybe suggested that she'd swallowed it? Yeah. So that was super weird. But the medical examiner determined that what killed Judy was a stroke.

When someone dies of a stroke, it can take a while and a person can have trouble walking, get really disoriented, they can collapse. So there you go. Is that explaining the bruising? Maybe. Okay. Maybe not. It's super unusual for a 30-year-old woman to die of a stroke. Yeah.

A few weeks later, the toxicology results came back, and they showed that Judy's stroke had been brought on by a cocaine overdose. Mm-hmm. So that was the explanation. Mm-hmm. Judy died of a cocaine overdose. Maybe. Maybe. Well, I mean, investigators and people close to Judy worried that that wasn't the full story.

Judy's son, Nicholas, was deemed too young to be helpful in this investigation. He was only three. But the couple's daughter, Ricky, wasn't. So she was interviewed at a child abuse assessment center. And here's part of that interview. The interviewer asked her if her parents fought. And Ricky said, yeah, a lot of times. How old is Ricky? She's five. Okay. How old is Ricky? She's five. Okay.

Interviewer, what happens when your mommy and daddy fight? Ricky, they get along really easily after that. Interviewer, what do they do when they fight? Ricky, they just wrestle around. Interviewer, does someone ever get hurt when your mommy and daddy fight? They just wrestle around. Interviewer. Does someone ever get hurt when your mommy and daddy fight? Ricky. Yes.

I always get hurt. Oh. Oh, my gosh. That breaks my heart. I know. So this is the day after Judyy died and the interviewer says i was wondering did your mom and dad have a fight last night and ricky said no they didn't fight later ricky was interviewed again here's how that went. She said, sometimes they fight like how dinosaurs fight. They kick and punch. The interviewer asked, who kicked and who punched? And Ricky said, well, mom does the

kicking and dad does the punching. My mom does it both and my dad does it both. I mean, he chops, My mom does it both and my dad does it both. I mean, he chops. Chop, chop, chop, chop. The interviewer asked Ricky to draw some pictures of, you know, where her mom was punched, and Ricky did. And in that drawing, she depicted Judy as having been hit in the eye, amongst other things. And remember from the autopsy. There's broken blood vessels. At one point, the interviewer asked her

where the blood had gone because she mentioned blood. The interviewer said, did someone clean up the blood? And Ricky said, well, my daddy cleaned it actually with the mop, the wet mop. The interviewer asked if the nanny had seen the blood.

And Ricky said, yep, she did the same thing as I did. What does that mean? Interviewer, what did Natalie do? Ricky, I don't know. It's just a story. It's not really a real story. Interesting. So what do you make of that? I think those are the answers that I would expect from a five-year-old. but I think probably the basics of it are the truth. Mm-hmm.

That she's seen her parents have physical fights. Right. And that she saw her dad clean up blood at some point. Okay. Even if she says, I don't know,

it's just a story, it's not a real story? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know yeah so ricky said some damning things but you know she's five and she said some things that were contradictory so it's hard to know what to believe absolutely but people were definitely concerned about whether whether Brian should have custody of his kids. Yeah. Fair to say. Yes.

So in November of 1999, there was a hearing to determine whether the kids should keep staying with family friends or if they should move into foster care for the time being. And during that hearing, Brian's attorney tried to kind of help him paint himself as a loving husband and father. But that was tough. There was this cloud of suspicion over him. And Brian's own behavior didn't do him any favors. When questioned, Brian told an assistant attorney general that he hadn't killed his wife. He'd never been violent with her. general that he hadn't killed his wife. He'd never been violent with her. He said that if Judy ever got any marks on her, it was from swinging at him and missing because, you know, she's so jealous.

Then the prosecutor asked Brian about a conversation he'd recently had with Judy's brother. Here's how that testimony went. Prosecutor, did you lose your temper with your brother-in-law in your last conversation? Brian, no. Yesterday I made a comment about how much credit would a coke whore have in court, and he hung up on me. Prosecutor, who were you referring to? His dead wife. Brian, to my loving wife. Prosecutor, so your wife was a coke whore? Brian, she had a problem. Serious problem. Wow. Yeah. Holy shit.

Can you fucking believe that? No. There you go. Brian was referring to his dead wife, the mother of his two children, as a co-core. To her family and in court. Yeah. Why on earth would you say that? That is nuts. But there was a problem, Brandy. What's the problem?

Judy's family, they just weren't getting it, you know? They weren't understanding. So Brian took it upon himself to send Judy's family a little package. He filled the box with some of Judy's things. What? I'm waiting. I'm just waiting to hear. He included a baggie of cocaine, some straws, and a rolled-up dollar bill.

Holy shit. In a letter he wrote to them, he said that Judy had a serious drug problem, and he couldn't keep covering for her. He sends this to them after she has died? Yes, because he is trying to tell everyone you know you know at first it was like maybe someone beat her up but then he's thinking maybe a cocaine overdose so like her family needs to know brandy that she was addicted so you know best way to do that is you tell them and also you send them stuff in the mail am i right no holy shit yeah it's remarkably cruel yeah also very illegal yes you just like

yeah you just put cocaine in the mail and send it off to north dakota no i'm pretty sure you can. South Dakota, maybe. I bet my butthole. Careful, careful. I've been down that road, my friend, and it didn't work out well for me. The great state of North Dakota where Kristen lost her butthole. That's right. For what it's worth, Brian says he did not do this. He was framed.

Okay. All right. For what it's worth, Brian says he did not do this. He was framed. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. Mm-hmm. Detective Joe, who had been on this case, was just stunned. Brian kept calling him, looking for updates on the case, like just calling constantly. And Brian would just talk and talk and talk. Brian told him that he was working on a book about this. He was working on a screenplay.

About his wife dying? Yeah. He said, quote, it's my responsibility to the public to do that, Joe. To do what? to the public to do that joe to do what write this screenplay write this book i don't know what's the matter you don't support the arts i yeah i do support the arts okay so with all of this fucking weird behavior following judy's death is anybody thinking like hmm maybe brian was involved in oh absolutely yeah absolutely okay but what proof do we have well none okay what do you think he did i don't know. Force fed her cocaine. Hmm. Okay.

I don't understand. Like, I can't imagine a scenario where she has a large enough amount of cocaine undigested in her stomach that that was discoverable on an autopsy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When the autopsy came out, Brian told Detective Joe that the amount of cocaine in Judy's system seemed impossible. He suggested that that amount of cocaine seemed like someone must have forced Judy to take it. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yep. And that's when the light bulb went off over the detective's head. Uh-huh. So that's how he'd done this.

Yeah. He'd forced Judy to ingest a lethal dose of cocaine. Okay, I promise you that timing was not scripted in any way. I love that. Holy shit. Yeah. Prosecutor Kurt Altman was gleeful. Brian had given them their theory.

Yeah. And so Brian Eftenoff was arrested for second-degree murder and drug transportation. Yeah. Brian was livid. He told the media, when I walk away from this, I'm going to make millions on them when I file my lawsuits. Okay. The trial began on February 14, 2001. Valentine's Day.

Yep. How often do you think they do that on purpose? I think they do that on purpose all the time. All the time. The prosecution theorized that on the night in question, Brian and Judy had gotten into a fight. During that fight, Brian had beaten Judy badly. He'd knocked her unconscious. had beaten Judy badly.

He'd knocked her unconscious. And to cover up that beating, he'd stuffed cocaine down her throat and left her for dead. Which explains the damage to her throat, right? Yeah, so that's the prosecution's theory. Is that it's not really a strangulation. It's like forcing someone to swallow. It's like when you make a dog swallow a pill.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, and then he'd gone out gallivanting with his friends so he'd have an alibi. Mm-hmm. In their opening statement, Brian's defense attorney said that the prosecution's theory was just groundless speculation. The prosecution called toxicologist Dr. Randall Baslett to the stand or Basalt.

I think it's Basalt or Bath Salt. Lance Bass actually is the one who testified. It's amazing because this is 2001. It was a peak in sync. He was busy. And I don't know that he was the best toxicologist they could have called. He testified that based on the evidence, Judy had taken approximately a gram of cocaine about an hour or two before she died. And that was too much cocaine taken too quickly for Judy to have ingested that on her own. She had to have been forced. She would have passed out before she could have willingly taken that amount. The prosecution also called Brian and Judy's daughter, Ricky, to the stand. By this point, Ricky was seven years old. You know, she couldn't really remember much.

The prosecution showed the jury the pictures that Ricky had drawn of her mom's injuries. The prosecution called to the stand one of the people who'd interviewed Ricky. And on cross-examination, defense attorney Jim Cleary questioned the reliability of a young child's memory. Yeah. He held up the drawings and said, you don't know when these incidents occurred, correct? And the woman said, correct. Judy's mother took the stand for the prosecution. She talked about what Brian said to her at Judy's funeral and how it felt to receive that package in the mail. When the prosecution rested, the defense had a pretty clear strategy, but Brian had his own

ideas. Oh, yeah? He wanted to testify in his own defense. Great. Yeah, You called your dead wife a coke whore. Right. In court. Previously. In court. At a hearing to determine whether you should have custody of your children. Custody of your children. So his defense attorney knew this was a terrible idea and told him, this is a bad idea.

Yes. Please no. But Brian was cocky yeah and you know you do have the right to absolutely i mean yeah oh so he decided he was going to set everybody straight he's you know he's going to get up there tell him the story yeah okay so the journalist who covered this case for the phoenix new times was Pee Wee Herman, just got that in, later said that watching Brian testify was like, quote, watching a man cut his own wrists over and over. Holy shit. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Holy shit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. When he took the stand, and I don't, I wish I had seen video of this. I don't know how this looked, but apparently he demonstrated how Judy had looked when he came upon her in the bathroom. And this made everyone very uncomfortable. I can imagine. He talked about, you know, obviously they try to do the thing of, you know, saying he loved her, blah, blah, blah. And then he talked about how much Judy loved cocaine.

He said, quote, she just couldn't put it down. It's like a laced potato chip. It's hard to put down. When you start, it's hard to stop. Okay. Are you mad that he messed it up? I am. It's Pringles. Once you pop, you don't stop.

First of all, how dare you? Know your snacks. And then what else, Brandi? Second of all, that's ridiculous. Why? Well, because if she really had a substance use disorder, you should have gotten her help. Well, yeah, okay. I mean, in a perfect world, sure.

Okay. So, yeah, he says this, and the jury—I just spat everywhere. I apologize. That's fine. I couldn't see it. I wouldn't have even known. But now you knew. The jury was just like, what? Yeah.

So, yeah, he says this thing about the Lay's potato chip, and then he said that, you know, if she took a really big dose of cocaine then yeah you know she was probably murdered what what he said that he said quote if it was anything like a one time dose of like a gram or more then there's obviously foul play you know because he didn't think she would take that much in a one-time dose. So you're on trial for murder and you just said your wife was murdered. Yeah, I mean, if it's what they're saying about the one-time dose, then yeah. He talked about how much he loved Judy and how every couple of months they'd rent a hotel room, quote, just to keep it fresh between us.

Yeah. On cross-examination, which, my God, this prosecutor had to have been so excited for this. Sneezing his jeans. Okay, that's enough. You know, he starts asking him questions. And, you know, Brian's trying to be the good guy here. Oh, no, never hit my wife. So then the prosecutor, who, of course, knew what went down at the hearing, went on and on about Brian calling his wife a co-core. He kept bringing it up and bringing it up.

And Brian was like, no, no, no, hey, I never referred to her as a co-core to her face. Okay. Holy shit. The prosecutor asked why he'd tried to use Judy's Neiman Marcus discount after she died. And Brian said, I was always getting the discount when she was alive.

I believed I should get it then. It's like if someone retires. Oh, my gosh. Uh-huh. I mean, it's hard to think of another time when someone has just gone up and totally shat the bed on the stand. That's when you bring a futon up there with you. Sorry.

I mean, can you believe this? No. This is so ridiculous. This is nuts. Uh-huh. So, you know, there's that disaster. Yeah. So the defense was like, okay, well, here we go.

They put Dr. Stephen Karch on the stand. This guy's an expert in toxicology, you know, kind of top of his game, top of the field, top of the day to you. Yeah, morning, top of the morning. Oh, top of the morning. You don't say top of the day? No, you don't say top of the day. That doesn't sound right. What do you say at nighttime?

Good night. Oh, that's boring. Bottom of the day to you. Now, there you go. That's something I can appreciate. Lunchtime? Middle of the day to you. Middle of the day to you.

It doesn't roll off the tongue. You catch me at the top or the bottom of the day. Yeah, you catch me outside. Mm-hmm. How about that? Although I can't catch you outside because of your allergies. That is right. You saw me.

I was outside for five minutes. Just tears stream down your face. What song is this? I can't remember. Okay, very good. I also can hardly breathe. Yeah. The other day I went out and trimmed a hedge, which is not like any kind of metaphor.

Fixed you by Coldplay. Oh, so you did know the song. It just hit me. Anyhow, I was telling a very delightful story about a hedge that I trimmed. I might not even be right. Okay. You trimmed a hedge. You couldn't breathe.

That's the end of the story. Are you glad you tuned in to this podcast? Yes. Yes, you are. Hey, get a load of this, hon. This podcaster I listened to, she told this great story about how she trimmed a hedge, then had a tough time breathing afterwards. She seems fine.

She seems fine. She was podcasting the next day, went to Janet Jackson, hung out with her, and Luda! This podcast is ridiculous. Yeah, and that conversation just gets weirder. Because then, you know, they go into the, I got holes in different area codes, area codes. Anyhow, so Dr. Stephen Karch, who has never been interrupted more often in his life, took the stand. Again, he's an expert-y expert. Oh, that's right. Top of the morning. Again, he's an expert-y expert. Oh, that's right.

Top of the morning to you, Stephen. So he's an expert. Brandi just had to cover her face. Why? Seems like she's embarrassed. I'm embarrassed by us. Yeah.

He's an expert on how cocaine interacts with the body okay and he testified for free which is not a thing that ever happens no but he had been following this case closely and he felt bad for brian really yeah did b Brian not really do this? Uh-oh. Did he not? He's just a douche, not a murderer? Uh-oh. Oh, shit.

Uh-oh. What's he got to say? What's this guy got? What's Steve? Steve? Yeah. Steve, tell us everything you know. He got on the stand and he said, bottom of the morning to you.

Because it was almost nighttime. And they were like, oh, shit, you know, let's start up tomorrow. Bottom of the morning would be almost noon. What? I just said, what do you say at night? And you said bottom of the day. Bottom of the day. All right.

Well, I wasn't paying very close attention. And I'll tell you, I don't like that very much. Anyhow, he was kind of fired up because he felt like the evidence in this case was on the defense's side. He felt like the evidence did not point to a murder. He was very critical of what experts were allowed to say in court about this stuff. He told the jury that it's impossible to say exactly when Judy ingested the cocaine. He said he couldn't say whether she'd swallowed the cocaine or snorted it. He also said that he couldn't determine how much cocaine she'd ingested. He told the jury that he could confirm she'd used cocaine, but that's all that he or any expert could say definitively. He said that once a person dies, their body chemistry changes rapidly,

so you can't treat blood from a cadaver the same way you would treat blood from like someone in a hospital. Holy shit. Yeah. Mm hmm. Well, keep going. Tell us more. Well, what do you think of that? I mean, that's that's very interesting.

It probably changes everything. That's very interesting and probably changes everything. In closing arguments, the defense once again, you know, talked about how the prosecution's theory is just bullshit. There's nothing backing this up. The prosecution tried to convince the jury that Ryan was the one who was full of shit. The jury of seven men and five women deliberated for 36 hours. They immediately agreed unanimously that he'd sent cocaine to his in-laws like a fucking idiot. Yeah. And they had a little more trouble on the second-degree murder charge.

But eventually they found him guilty. They did. Six weeks later, Brian was sentenced to 50 years in prison, six weeks later brian was sentenced to 50 years in prison 22 years for murder and 28 years for sending cocaine in the mail really so don't send cocaine in the what the fuck i think it was because he had priors and stuff okay yeah more for sending coke in the mail than murder yeah again something to deal do with the priors and also they really hated this guy you know okay at the sentencing brian cried and told the judge that he believed he was convicted for his lifestyle i would say maybe less for his lifestyle and more for his

demeanor. I'd say both. Yeah, you're probably right. Because this is not the kind of story you want to hear. No. To this day, Brian remains in prison. His appeals so far have been unsuccessful. But this case is very controversial. A lot of people, including me, believe that Brian was convicted because he was an asshole.

They believe that the evidence supports the idea that Judy died from a drug overdose. And when she had that stroke, she might have fallen or done something something that could explain some of the bruising. Also, I do think they were, you know, I do think she was in an abusive relationship. Ricky and Nicholas, although surely he goes by Nicky. No, he goes by Nick. Yeah, I bet. Yeah. So they're now adults and they believe very strongly in their father's innocence. Wow. They were profiled on a show called Reasonable Doubt. Have you ever watched that show?

I have watched that show. Okay. So it's got the two attorneys who come in and they look over the case and then they give their opinion. Yeah. Yeah. What do they say? They think he was wrongfully convicted. Yeah.

was wrongfully convicted. Yeah. Yeah. I think that if there's this misunderstanding about the evidence that presents huge questions to me. Absolutely. Yeah. So as part of this show, and I've only watched this one episode, but when they believe that someone's wrongfully convicted and they, you know, set them up with a defense attorney to try to get working on appeals and stuff. I don't know if I already said this, but he's tried to appeal in the past and it's not been successful. So they're working on this. OK, I don't know if you remember, but last week I told like a brief story about how I'd started looking into a case where a woman was interviewed when she was a child and now she has all these regrets. Well, that's, that's Rick. Yeah. She, um, it's so sad. I mean, she, she now is just like, no, I, my words were twisted. You know, I.

Well, even, it doesn't even necessarily mean her words were twisted. I think it's possible that she. I think it's. I think it's probable that she witnessed her father abusing her mother. But who knows the timeline on that? Exactly. And she should not have been put in that position. Wow. that exactly and she should not have been put in that position no wow the kids talked about their dad how much they want him out it was so interesting though because you know he was interviewed for the show just like i i don't think it was like an

on-camera interview but he's still abrasive can you can. He just he can't help himself. Just his personality. Uh huh. Yeah. Some people are just assholes. Yeah. Yeah. Not murderers. Yeah. Some people are murderers and assholes. It's true. Yeah. I find this case so fascinating. I do, too, because I can totally understand why the detective and the family is just like, OK. Yeah. OK. This is too weird. Something happened here.

It all adds up. What it actually kind of reminds me of is the Melissa Lucio case. She's the mother who was convicted of murdering her daughter. Her daughter died after a fall down the stairs. And there was such a misunderstanding in that case about what the bruises on her daughter's body meant and how the bruises appeared after her death. And I mean, this is so similar where it's like the prosecution, the investigators looked at this evidence to mean one thing.

And then you've got this expert who says you can't look at it that way. That's not necessarily what it means. It was so interesting to hear that expert talk later because he was just like, you know, I got up there and like the jury wouldn't even really look at me. You know, they didn't want to hear it. Yeah. Because the asshole has already made an impression. Well, and frankly, you know, the prosecution's witness, I'm sure he made a good impression, too. You were eating it all up like a bowl of lucky charms.

I still don't know that I am. At the top of the morning. Well, I still don't know that I'm convinced that he's not guilty, but I have huge questions about, yeah, how that. Do you really? Okay, it's so funny. When you were like, oh, he forced her to ingest the cocaine. I, when I first heard that, I was like, that is ridiculous.

I thought it was just nuts that that would ever be a theory in a case. But it's interesting to me that you were like, oh, maybe this happened. Yeah. And I'm like, this has never happened. I don't know. Wow. I mean, that's a that's very interesting

it's what we call a brandy case it is a podcasting biz it is a brandy case absolutely I had never heard it and you heard it told by an expert storyteller I did with beautiful tits. Okay. Wow, that was rude. All you had to do was back me up. I told you today that I spend very little time thinking about your

tits, Kristen. You've never been more offended. No, I have not. Why do you need to lie to me, Brandy? We all know you're lying. Okay? Okay. Anyhow, I can see you're not going to apologize. So I think we should move on to an ad. Oh, absolutely. And we're back from the ad. Doodaloo.

You going to tell me about a psychic vision? I sure am. Okay, shout out to One Semester in the Discord for sharing a BuzzFeed listicle entitled 11 True Cases That Were

Solved in Some Pretty Unexpected Ways. Okay, that's my headline sucks. Yeah, it's a rough case. I mean, it's a rough headline. Yeah's a rough, I mean, it's a rough headline, yeah. This case is one of those cases. It would be hilarious if it wasn't. This case took me to some unusual places. A bit outside of my comfort zone, I watched an episode of Psychic Investigators entitled.

What the hell is that? I had never heard of it. Okay. But it was entitled Suddenly Psychic which I actually think is hilarious. Very cute. Makes me think of that salad, that pasta salad mix that you can buy at the store called Suddenly Salad. I am not

familiar. You're not? Suddenly Salad? Yeah, Suddenly Salad. That's really cute. It's all in a box. No, I get that. I don't like it, but, you know. Oh, you like the name. I like the name, not the product.

That's correct. I don't like, really. Great. We were about to get sponsored by that. No, we weren't. Now they think you're an asshole. Also, I watched a segment from Unsolved Mysteries. Just a segment, huh?

Yes. I didn't watch the whole program. Just a segment of one episode. She had no time. No time. And bigger shout out to Nick Young for her article for Medium. All right. Melanie Uribe was reliable.

So when the 32-year-old nurse and single mother failed to show up for her shift at Pacoima Hospital in Burbank, California on the night of December 15, 1980, people were worried. The hospital called Melanie's home, but they were unable to reach her. There's some pretty varied reporting on who actually reported Melanie missing. May have been her sister, may have been her friend, may have been the hospital. Okay. Articles say different things, but someone reported Melanie missing after she failed to show up for work. And police went to Melanie's apartment where they spoke to her roommate. Her roommate? Her boommate? I think I said wombate.

Oh, that's when you're a twin. Yeah. Also, since you are struggling right now, I should mention that I have to pee very badly. So I will now pause. And could you get your shit together? I'm going to take some drinks of water while you're gone. Are you going to 10 tanks? Get the fuck out of here. Did you miss me? I did so much. Okay, calm down. Melanie's roommate told police that she had not seen Melanie since she left for work. She described Melanie to police

as being a five foot, two inch tall blonde woman. And she said when she left for work, she had on her white nursing uniform. She had a brown sweater on over that and then a black leather jacket over that. When she learned that Melanie had not shown up for work, though, that day, she was just as concerned as everybody else. Melanie would not miss work and she wouldn't take off and leave her eight-year-old son. Oh, yeah. The next day, on December 16th, emergency crews were called to the scene of a fire. A black pickup truck was found burned out and abandoned.

A black pickup truck was found burned out and abandoned. The police quickly determined that it was Melanie Uribe's truck and her nursing uniform was found inside. But there was no sign of Melanie. So police put out an alert on TV and radio pleading for anyone with information to come forward. And it wasn't long before they received a call from a man named Paul Woods. He said that on the night of the 15th, he had witnessed something at about 1045 p.m. He had seen a black pickup truck come to a stop at an intersection in the Pacoima area. And while the driver sat there waiting for the light to change he witnessed two men come around the truck one on the passenger side one on the driver's side the men forced their way into the truck as the blonde female driver screamed and then he watched the truck drive away

with the men inside of it. Did he call the police? He did not. What? As far as I found. As far as I found, he did not report this to anyone until he saw the appeal to the public asking for any information about this truck. Holy shit. All right.

Yeah, I can't imagine seeing that and not calling someone. But it appears that's what happened. This was obviously a lead, but Paul Woods didn't get a good look at the men, so there wasn't, like, a lot to go on. He knew which direction the truck turned after they left the intersection, but that was about it. They needed a better lead. They needed some kind of break. but that was about it. They needed a better lead. They needed some kind of break. Later that same day, a 32-year-old woman by the name of Etta Smith was working at Lockheed Aerospace as a shipping clerk, and she was listening to a newscast on the radio when

they began talking about the disappearance of Melanie Uribe. Etta had actually heard about this missing woman earlier in the day. A friend of hers had asked her if she'd heard about it, and she was like, oh, you know, I think I saw something, you know, in the news this morning about it. But other than that, like, brief mention earlier in the day, Etta had no connection to Melanie at all. They lived in the same part of California, but that was it. The radio bulletin mentioned specifically that police had located Melanie's car. It had been

abandoned on a dead end street after it, and then it was like set on fire. I was going to say it was abandoned after it was set on fire, but you know, you get it. I'm afraid I don't. The bulletin then mentioned that the police had searched the area where that truck had been found, but they'd found no sign of Melanie, no evidence to speak of. And so they were doing a house-to-house search in the area. That's the phrase they used on this radio bulletin, a house-to-house search. As soon as Etta heard that, she said out loud, she's not in a house. And she had no idea where that thought came from. Okay.

But as soon as that like left her mouth, she had a clear vision in her head of where Melanie was. She saw a canyon with a curving road. She saw shrubbery and hills in the background. And she saw a dirt path with some bushes. And in the bushes, she saw something white. And she knew in this vision that that something white was Melanie. She didn't know the name of this location. She wasn't even really sure where it was. What's this woman's deal again?

I mean. She's just like this woman who works as a shipping clerk at Lockheed. Like. Okay. She hears this bulletin on the radio and this vision pops into her head. I spit so far. Oh, thanks a lot. You're welcome. Is this something that happens with her often? Oh, we'll get there.

All right. I'll keep my pants on. She said this vision. Or will I blow them off? Maybe. She said this vision was so clear it was like a movie scene in her head. Etta did not believe herself to be a psychic. She recalled having experiences in her life that she thought was odd.

That she thought were odd. Like moments of terrible grammar? That's rude. As a child, she recalled knowing things were going to happen before they happened. So I watched this interview with her. And she talks about when she was a child, like being told that they were going to go on a trip to go visit their cousins. And when she was told that, she could see them, like, getting in the car, driving, like, visualizing the exact route they would take,

visualizing specific things they would see along the way, visualizing arriving at the house and people coming out and what conversation would happen. And then it would play out exactly like that. All right. And so she remembers as a child telling her mom about that. And her mom had told her never to tell anyone that she experienced that. Because her mother was also a psychic. No, because her mother thought she would driven out of the look nutso bananas if she told people that. OK. So she told her to never say anything about it. I mean, is it really that hard to visualize a road trip?

Okay. Well, this was just a specific example. Kristen, she's it. Well, I'm sorry, but like, okay. So I'm going on a road trip and I arrive at someone's house. Okay. Let me hang on. Oh, wait, I've got a vision.

You're such a dick. Oh, wait, I've got a vision. You're such a dick. Oh my God. Here's my vision. They ask me how the trip was. Okay. They ask me if I'm hungry or thirsty. They say, come on in. You must be tired.

Okay. This was one example she gave. She said there were lots of examples where she would know something would happen and she couldn't explain it. Yeah. Okay. Anyway.

Today I was like, oh, my God, I think Brandy's going to wear a black shirt to this house. And then you showed up. Look at you. Yeah. In a black shirt. I sure am. Anyway. So she's had these kind of weird experiences her whole life, and now she's sitting here having this vision of where this missing woman that she's never met is.

And she didn't know what to do with it. She knew that if she told this to someone else, like Kristen Caruso, that they would look at her like she had lost her fucking mind. No, I wouldn't look at her like that. I'd just look at her like she had lost her fucking mind. No, I wouldn't look at her like that. I'd just look at her like she was very dumb. Brandi, you're such a butthole right now. I can't believe you. But on the other hand, what she had just seen in her head was so clear to her she felt like she just she just couldn't be sure that like was she seeing she she was clear that she was seeing where melanie was

but her fear was that what if melanie was still alive there and she didn't take this seriously and she had an opportunity to go save this woman and she didn't take it. So Etta went back and forth with herself all day about what she should do. When she left work that afternoon, she was still really torn. So she started to drive home. But as she did, she found herself at a literal crossroads. She was stopped at an intersection and she could turn one way and go home or she could turn the other way. And the police department was right there there so she chose the road less traveled by okay how much do you hate me right now don't hate you but i think you're being a bit of a pill so she decided that she didn't care if they thought she was nuts.

She just needed to tell someone. And so she decided to go to the police station. And she told them that she had been at work. She'd heard this radio bulletin. And then she'd had this vision and that she knew that that vision was where this missing woman was. And so she met with this detective. His name was Detective Lee Ryan. And she tells him all of this. And she's like, describes this location that she saw. And

Detective Ryan took her into this room with this big map. And he's like, do you think you can point on here where that area was? And she was able to. Like, that's how clearly she knew it in her head. And so she pointed to this area on a map of Lopez Canyon, which is a part like a remote part of the San Fernando Valley. And it seemed that Detective Lee Ryan was taking her pretty seriously. Of course. He later said that he did take Etta seriously because, like, she's this businesswoman who has this top security clearance at Lockheed. Like, this wasn't I mean, yes, she was just some random woman off of the street doing this, but she didn't really have anything to gain from this. And so he said, OK, we have not searched that area yet.

But if you come back in the morning at seven o'clock, I'll have a helicopter here. We'll fly out there together. would assume if I were in his shoes was this is a woman who knows something not because of a psychic vision but because someone has told her something or what and this is just the way she's letting me know so I'm going to take this very seriously because yeah dot dot dot yeah yeah sure so he tells her that and she's like, great. Okay. I'll be back here in the morning. And then as she was leaving,

she's like, I don't think we should wait till the morning. And he was like, well, you know, that's kind of what we're going to do. And she was like, I don't think that's what I'm going to do.

And she left. And she, yeah. And she went, she drove drove home and as she was driving home she just had this nagging feeling that melanie was there at that spot that she had pictured and she worried that there was some chance that melanie was alive there and that is morning. Go there and find her alive and save her. No. Oh. So she just thought, I can't I can't wait until morning.

So she decided to drive home and go tell her family. So she gets home. Her 21 year old niece is at her house watching her two children. She's got like a nine year old son and a 10 year old daughter and so she gets home and she tells them about the whole thing and then she's like i think we gotta drive out there she now says looking back that if she was thinking clearly she would not have taken her children along with her but she did the her two children her niece and etta all get in the car and they drive out to that area that she had pictured. As they're getting closer and closer, Etta said that she had this feeling coming over her that she could just feel Melanie in the area.

She had her children, like, looking out both sides of the car to see if they spotted anything. So they drive up through the canyon. sides of the car, see if they spotted anything. So they drive up through the canyon and Etta spotted a fresh set of like tire tracks in the dirt in the canyon. And so she pulled over, she got out of her van, she reached down and she touched the tire tracks and she said she felt electricity run through her body. She felt just all kinds of trauma, she said. She knew Melanie had gone through something terrible out here in this area, but she still couldn't see her. And so she got back in the car and they continued driving. And then her daughter said, I see something over there. And she pointed to an area where there were bushes and there was this little bit of white sticking out from the bushes.

And so Etta got out of the van and she ran over there and there was in fact a body in those bushes. Oh my God. The white that they could see was nursing shoes sticking out from the bottom of the bushes. She knew that this was Melanie. Yeah. She knew that this was what she had seen in her vision. So Etta and her children like jump back in the car and they're speeding down the canyon to go get the police. But as they were coming down, they saw a police cruiser approaching. What?

Yeah. So maybe the detective had been like, hey, maybe send somebody out this area tonight. Yeah. Do a close research, whatever. Because this lady comes in saying she knows where somebody is. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

So they, they, Etta Etta like laid on the horn. She waved her arms. She got this police officer to pull over. And once she flagged him down, she explained what she had found. And she said, you know, can you go and look? And so he went and he looked and he confirmed that there was, in fact, a body in that bush. The officer located a small blonde woman face down with massive head trauma. It was clear that she was dead.

Etta asked the officer if it was Melanie Uribe. And while the officer said he couldn't be sure, he said it seemed likely because of the nursing shoes. he said it seemed likely because of the nursing shoes so they call in obviously the police they block off the whole area and an autopsy was done and they determined that this was the body of melanie uribe she had been stripped naked she had been raped and beaten and killed through blunt force trauma to the head. But they had no idea who had done this to Melanie. So they started looking at Etta. Yeah.

I mean, yeah. Yeah. They wondered, yeah. Yeah. They wondered how she knew where Melanie's body would be. Her description of the area was exact. Yeah. Down to the curve of the road and the bush with the white and the hill in the background. Sure. She described it exactly as it was.

Mm-hmm. Sure. She described it exactly as it was. And so they wondered if maybe not necessarily that initially I don't think their thought was that Etta was involved, but they had the same thought you did. Maybe she had overheard something. She doesn't want to name them, but she does want this person to be found. Correct. And so they asked Etta to come into the police station. They wanted to. She sat down with two different detectives now, not the same

Lee Ryan that she had met with the first time, two different detectives. And she said they wanted her to explain to them how the whole thing unfolded. And she was like, yes, that makes sense. And so she walked them through the entire thing, hearing about the missing woman, hearing about the bulletin on the news and then having this vision. And she said that seemed very normal to her to have them, you know, ask her to walk her through it. But as soon as she finished telling them, they were like, OK, start from the beginning tell us everything again and so she did it again and this went on for hours shit they had her repeat the story 10 times 15 times but it never changed she told the same thing over and over again. Finally, when she was still being questioned, like at 10 p.m.

I mean, hours and hours and hours had gone by by this point. Like this is the next day. She said it became very obvious to her that she was a suspect. Yeah. obvious to her that she was a suspect. Yeah. So at this point, they really don't have much else to go on. And so they think that Etta probably has the key to solving this case.

She knows something, whatever. And so they asked her to take a polygraph test. And she did. And she passed. And then they asked her to take another polygraph test. And she did. And she passed. And then they asked her to take another one. No, get out. And she did. Am I under arrest?

And she passed. Am I under arrest? Am I being detained? Right. And then despite the fact that she passed both, the detectives told her that they believed, even though she passed them, that she was being deceptive because to them it appeared that she was attempting to control her breathing while she was taking the polygraph. Yeah. I mean, they're going to tell her whatever because polygraphs mean nothing. So they're just trying to get her nervous and get her to admit to something. Yeah, that's exactly what they were trying to do. They were trying to break her down and get her to admit to something. Yeah, that's exactly what they were trying to do.

They were trying to break her down and get her to admit to something. But she wouldn't do it. And so they arrested her. And they booked her on accessory to murder. Oh, shit. She should have listened to her mom. Never bail. Never tell anyone.

And they held her for four days, hoping that she would break, hoping that she would give them some information. She didn't bail out? They never officially charged her with anything so she could not, she never got bail assigned. What they said on this psychic investigator show or whatever the hell it was called was that

she likely didn't know her rights and that had she even just asked for an attorney they would have had to let her go. I promise you she didn't know her rights. Yeah. Because, yeah, when you're in this situation where you feel like you're the suspect, you don't have to stay there. No.

They held her for four days. She got, like, horribly sick in those four days. She lost 13 pounds in four days. Yeah, they likened it to dysentery on this show. How do you lose that much weight in four days? Because of the conditions that she, I know, right? She was being held in these horrible conditions hoping that she would break. The important thing is she looked awesome.

Her cheekbones were so defined oh my gosh they've never been so defined now there was the trauma sure but i mean collarbones yeah so really they held her on suspicion of accessory to murder. They never charged her with anything. Oh, my God. So, yes. So she never was assigned a bail or anything like that. And so she just stayed there for four days. Meanwhile, they're looking into this case. This investigation is going on.

And then a police informant came forward. Confidential informant. No, no. Made informant no no made up i don't i don't think so okay so this informant said that he lived in this neighborhood kind of near that area and that he'd heard a lot of talking going on and that someone was bragging about pulling off a rape and murder. Oh, God. And that there were a bunch of people kind of talking about it now. He had heard it kind of secondhand. And that people were really scared of the people who were involved in this.

Sure. And so the police go and they try and track down, like, they have a name of someone who heard, you know, whatever. And so they track down this guy. They talk to him. And he's like, yeah, it's this. They get the name of this 17 year old kid, Norman Willis. 17? 17 year old.

Everybody is saying that he's been bragging that he murdered this woman. No way. And so they track this kid down and he comes in. He immediately is like, nope, I'm not talking. I don't say anything. And so they get nothing out of him, but they go and talk to his parents and his parents are very cooperative. And they're like, he has been hanging out with these people that we do not approve of. We are worried that he has gotten involved in the wrong crowd. Oh, God.

And so they give the police two names. They give them the name of Lewis Morgan, who was 20 years old, and Spencer Nelson, who was 21. And they're like, it's possible that he has gotten involved in something with these two guys. And so they bring in Lewis Morgan and Spencer Nelson to talk to them. And Lewis Morgan confessed to everything. What? He said. He was like a cashew that had been left out in the rain. He was. He was an easy nut to crack, Kristen. That's correct. He said that it was exactly like what that witness had described, that he and Spencer Nelson had come up to Melanie's truck while it had been stopped at an intersection. Did they know her at all? Oh, my God. It's completely random.

He says that they intended to rob her. Wow. And then when they got out to the canyon, that Spencer Nelson is the one who took it too far. And he raped Melanie. And then he told at some point they also picked up Norman along the way. So they've got the three men and Melanie in this truck. They get out to this area of the canyon where they were just supposed to rob Melanie, according to Lewis. Yeah. I mean, you don't have to go out that far if you're just trying to rob someone. Exactly. So they get out there and then Spencer Nelson rapes Melanie. And then he tells the other two guys, Norman and Lewis, that like now that this has happened, they don't have a choice.

They have to kill her. Soencer nelson had a previous conviction for rape oh and the victim had identified him in that case and so that's the police's belief that that is why he said that yeah and then lewis morgan said that spencer Spencer Nelson picked up a big rock and beat Melanie's head with it until she was dead. Oh, my God. So they get all of this information. In the meantime, they have gotten this other informant call. This is just an anonymous person, not a police informant, just an anonymous person has called the police department. And she says that she has knowledge about Melanie Uribe's murder.

And so the detective that has been assigned to this case, his name was Patrick Conmay, Detective Patrick Conmay. So he takes this call and he she's like this woman on the phone is like, I have information about Melanie Uribe's murder. I have the murder weapon. What? Yeah. And at this point, they've released no information about how Melanie was murdered or anything like that. And so he's like, OK, can you tell me what the murder weapon is? And he's like, if you can tell me what it is, I'll know if I can take this seriously or not. And she said, it's a big rock. Oh, my God. And then she hung up the phone. Oh. And so he has no idea who this person is.

But he suspects they really do have the murder weapon because that matches with what the medical examiner has said likely caused Melanie's death, bludgeoning with a large rock. So that's all going on. And then they talk to Lewis Morgan. Lewis Morgan gives them this information. And so he says, we took the murder weapon with us. We took the large rock with us.

But we dumped it in a neighborhood. And so Detective Conmay is like, OK, take me where you dumped it in a neighborhood and so detective conme is like okay take me where you dumped it yeah and so lewis morgan takes him to his girlfriend's neighborhood and says we dumped it in the gutter and so he takes him he takes the detective where he says they dumped it and it's gone. So the three men are taken into custody. But now this detective has to put this case together. But because Lewis took him to his girlfriend's neighborhood, he then assumes that it was Lewis's girlfriend who called him with the tip. So he just goes to Lewis's girlfriend's house. Of course.

And knocks on the door and is like, did you call me about a murder weapon? And she says that, yes, she did. He says, do you have it? And she said, yes, but it's hidden. And you have to let me go get it by myself. You can't come with me. What? Yeah.

And so Detective Conway is like, I mean, is she just trying to get away? Like, what's the what's the game here? But he said he decided to trust her and let her leave and go get this supposed murder weapon. She came back and she had a big bloody rock in a pillowcase. It was the murder weapon. Where the hell had she gone? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that.

I don't know where she had the rock hidden. I don't know. That's so weird to me. Yes. With the murder weapon, the confession from Lewis. I mean, Spencer Nelson never admitted to anything, and Norman Willis never admitted to anything either. But all three of them were arrested and charged with murder, accessory to murder, rape, and kidnapping for robbery.

There's zero coverage of their trial. The closest thing to coverage I found was that Norman Willis, even though he was 17 when the crime was committed, was tried as an adult. They were all tried together and they were all convicted and sentenced to life in prison. So while all of these discoveries are being made, Etta Smith is still being held. Yeah. It's not until they get these three men into custody that they release her. And they determined that she had nothing to do with any of this at all. She was just a good Samaritan coming forward with a vision. Truly a vision. She didn't have any connection to any of these men. She didn't live in the area.

She did. She had not overheard anything. She really had had a psychic vision. Oh, this poor woman. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So how long was she held? Four days.

Was it four? Okay. Like a little less than four days. Three and some change. Too long. So, and it was pretty upset that she had been arrested when she was just attempting to, well, not even arrested. She was held. I mean, I mean, that's the thing. Yeah. And so like a year after all of this happened she looked herself in the mirror she sued the police department for wrongful arrest she sued them for 750 000 she said that her reputation

had been dragged through the mud through all of this people thought yeah that she had knowledge she was involved in some way. And she didn't. She just wanted to clear her name. Yeah. And so she sued them for $750,000. And in March of 1987, the case went to trial. Her attorney said at trial, this case is about a woman who cared a little too much and paid the price. Mm-hmm. Ace is about a woman who cared a little too much and paid the price.

Etta took the stand over the course of this seven-day trial. She talked about how this vision had come to her. She talked about her experience of just being at work one day and hearing it on the radio and all of that. She said, mentally, somewhere, something registered. And I said, she's not in a house. She said she was very confused by all of it. She said she couldn't understand what was happening, but that she just felt pulled to do something with that information. So her case is that, you know, she just was like a person who had this vision and she wanted to do the right thing with it. And they handled it horribly.

Yeah. And then for the police department, their defense or whatever, they said that they believed that Etta was trying to make money off of this whole thing. She wanted to sell her story and make a movie out of it and all of this. That's not illegal. It's sure not. So who gives a shit? Exactly. Exactly.

So this is interesting to me because obviously this is a civil case. So in this case, the judge was the one to determine whether the police had wrongfully held Etta. That was not up to the jury. That was up to the judge. And he determined that, yes, they had held her without probable cause. So then it was just the jury's job

to figure out how much damages she should be awarded. And so they discussed that. And ultimately, so she had sued for $750,000. And ultimately, they awarded her $26,184. Well, ouch. Yes.

They awarded her $1,184 for lost wages and attorney's fees and $25,000 for pain and suffering. So they came to that amount of $25,000 because that's the amount she made a year. That was her yearly salary. And so they were like, she should get a year's salary for her pain and suffering. All right. It's fine. Yeah, I... Yeah. I'm fine with it. I'm more concerned with, like,

the police holding her like that. Yeah. That's... Yeah. Really fucked up. Yep. Okay. At the end of the segment on unsolved mysteries, it says that Etta has continued to use her psychic gifts to help solve other cases. Citation needed unsolved mysteries

because I could not find that anywhere else. In fact, I found multiple other articles that said Etta has never experienced another psychic vision. This was like a one-time thing. Well, if she does, she's not talking about it. Well, sure. I'm not telling fucking anybody about it ever again. And that's the story of a psychic vision.

Wow. Yeah. There are a lot of people that had the exact same thought you did that were like, she clearly just overheard something and, you know, wanted to get the information to them. The most logical explanation. Yeah. How long are they allowed to hold you like that? I mean, now I think it's like 24 hours. That's crazy.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. 24 hours without charges. Yeah. Almost four Oh, my God. Yeah, 24 hours without charges. Yeah. Almost four days they held her. Ugh. And then they brought her son in and, like, interrogated him as well because he was involved, like, when they went and found the actual body.

Wait, wasn't he, like, 10? He was 10. Okay, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The dangers of being helpful. Do you believe in psychics? I mean, I bet some people have a gift.

Yeah, I think so too. I'm still allowed to be a dick to them. Absolutely. Oh, you didn't like it when I was being a dick. No, I don't like it, I'm still allowed to be a dick to them. Absolutely. Oh, you didn't like it when I was being a dick. No, I don't like it, but you're allowed to do it. Am I? Of course you are. I envision a road trip where I stop many times to pee. That's every road trip you ever go on.

I see a Taco Bell and I say, my goodness. That's the worst road food. How do you eat that on the road? You stop in the parking lot. Oh, I don't know. And you avert your eyes from anyone else who's doing the same thing that you are. And you just park. And you eat your tacos.

And then you go on your way. Uh-huh. Sure. On the Unsolved Mysteries page about this case, there's like a comment section at the bottom and there's this woman who was commenting, claiming to be Melanie's sister. And she said that her son has just had a terrible time dealing with his mother's murder. He's in his 40s now and losing his mother at such a young age just had this horrible impact on his life, obviously. What else was said in the comments? There's other comments.

There's a woman who claims that she worked with Melanie as a nurse at a different hospital and that Melanie was afraid of the night shift. She was really surprised that Melanie was working the night shift at the time of her disappearance. Why are you making that face? I don't know. I was really surprised that Melanie was working the night shift at the time of her disappearance. Hmm. Yeah. Why are you making that face? I don't know. I just think it's interesting, I guess. I didn't mean it. It wasn't like a skeptical face.

It looked very skeptical. Yeah, I think working the night shift would suck. Oh, absolutely. I think it'd be terrible. But my theory on that is maybe it allowed her to have more time with her son. Sure. Yeah. All right.

Very good. You know, at some point in the future, there'll be an ad here. We're back from the ad. And now what are we about to do, Burundi? We're going to take some questions from the Discord. But how do you get in the Discord? To get in the Discord, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. And then when we record, we ask for questions, and then we pick a few to answer.

Oh, my gosh. Okay. Meat Free But Still Hardy asks, what is one of your irrational fears? Mine is sometimes when I'm pooping, I worry that it's a dream and I'm pooping my pants somewhere. Hmm. Oh. That's very interesting. Yeah.

When I was a kid, I had irrational fears about the toilet. What about the toilet? That a monster was going to come up and suck me into the toilet. Oh, sure. I saw this creepy episode of The X-Files when I was way too young about a port-a-potty monster. That's fair. Yeah. I'll tell you a true scary story from last night.

Okay. Last night, you know, I don't know if I mentioned the Janet Jackson concert. You were hanging out with Janet Jackson? Yeah. And I was in. Luda! I was in my full spanks, you know, I don't know if I mentioned the Janet Jackson concert. You were hanging out with Janet Jackson, yeah. And I was in my full spanks, you know. Oh, yeah. The type that have straps at the top. What'd you wear? What'd you wear to the concert?

Just a cute little body-hugging dress. Oh, shit. Yeah. Okay. All right. But here's the thing. I thought I was looking all cute and stuff. You get to the Janet show, there are people in head-to-toe sequence.

Oh, yeah. I looked like the basicest bitch there was. Anyhow, you know, my shapewear, it has one of those zipper crotches for when you have to pee. Why are you making this face at me? Did you zip a labia up in that? That's my fear. Yeah. My fear is always that scene that? That's my fear. Yeah. My fear is always that scene from, there's something about Mary.

Yeah. How'd you get the bean above the frank? Exactly. That's, I imagine giving myself a full labiaplasty just by, you know. Maybe that's the cheapest way to do it. Have a few drinks at the Bristol and then whoop. Is that where you went? Yeah.

That's where the Luda story happened. I know! It's a good place to go when you're going to the T-Mobile Center because you just boop, boop, boop, walk on down. Anyhow, so I have now peed twice in that thing. Yeah. And let me tell you, when you're just doing the zipper crotch. Yeah. It feels like you are pissing your pants.

Sure. Because your thighs are covered. Your butt's covered. Everything's covered. Yeah. I. Okay. It is interesting you say that.

If I am. If I. Oh, man. I haven't even thought about this until now. When I like get up in the middle of the night to pee and I'm like, you know, kind of grogging out of it. Yeah. There are times where I'm like, I start peeing and I'm like, oh my God, did I pull my underwear down? There's like a moment where I think I'm peeing my pants. Uh-huh.

Yeah. I've never, I've yet to forget to pull my underwear down, but I feel like I'm just... But it could happen. You're waiting for the day. That's right. Absolutely. Anyway, did you get that zipped up all right? No.

Yeah, but I was really worried. I bet. Because, I mean, can you imagine? No. Hearing a woman scream from the Bristol bathroom? No. Oh, Suburban Gazing Ball asks, have you tried Olipop? O-L-I-P-O-P.

I don't really know how it's pronounced. No. I want to try it so bad. I keep seeing it all over the place. Suburban Gazing Ball says it's literally the best drink ever. No way. That's like that probiotic soda stuff, right? Yeah, it's like soda.

It's a million dollars? Is it a million dollars? I don't know. I do want to try it, though. I want to try it. All a pop. Is it expensive? I don't know.

That's just a thing I say about anything I don't understand. No, I mean, it's more than just like regular soda. But here's a four-pack of Target for $10. Four-pack for $10? kidding me that's pretty pricey what well little pink kristin has good question, but my answer is mean. Oh. Well, go ahead. Lil Pink Kristen asks, what piece of life advice would you give your younger self? You have mean life advice for yourself? Well, it's not mean to me.

It's mean to someone else. Oh. Well, let's hear it. Don't settle. You can do better. Bow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Wow. Don't settle.

You can do better. Bow wow wow wow wow. Wow. Wow. I can't believe you just said that. It's rude. It is a rude thing to say. No it's not. I wish I would have thought that.

Yeah. It would have saved me so much. Yeah. So that is my life advice to all of you youngins out there. Don't fucking settle. Know your worth. But if you're old, you should settle. Well, no, I just meant.

Because death is near. No, stop. No, no, no. That is my life advice to everyone. Know your fucking worth. Mm-hmm. Yes. Hmm.

What would my life advice be? Oh. Definitely to not be afraid to get help. But I would have heard that and been like, yeah, OK. Yeah. And then just kept on trucking. Yeah. But like, I think about how much better my life has gotten since therapy, since figuring out that it's not my weird quirky personality. It's ADHD. Yeah. And I just, I remember all these times when I was younger thinking, gosh, this thing is hard for me and I don't understand. And like just blaming myself. Like it never occurred to me that maybe there was something out there that could help me. Yeah. So there you me. Yeah. So there you go.

Yeah. Another piece of advice. Don't settle for a friendship where someone pretends they don't notice how great your boobs are. And I realize that is rude. But it's great advice. I think I just don't, I guess I just don't

look at boobs that much. How could you not look at boobs? I don't know. What do you look at? Eyes, teeth, hair.

Oh, okay. Hair, yep. Yeah. Eyes, teeth, and hair.

In that order, probably. Sure. Be weird if you zeroed in on teeth. Yeah. All right. Yeah. OK. Oh, OK. Here's a good question. Kind of going off of the previous question. Yeah. Silly Hooker wants to know, looking back, what is a bad piece of advice you followed and had regrets? Ooh. I think I always had it kind of in my head not to quit things.

And there are things in my life I should have quit way earlier. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah, I think that's such stupid advice. Yeah, there's something that's like, never quit. Like not being a quitter is some accomplishment or something.

Like there are many things that I did way longer than I should have. And absolutely. Yeah. I wish I would have thought, no, it'd be OK to quit things that are maybe giving me anxiety

that are not adding anything to my life that are, yes. Yeah, you don't want to quit out of fear but no if you've been in something for long enough that you know this doesn't feel right this isn't for me yeah you're not you're not gonna win anything right absolutely by sticking it out yeah Right. Absolutely. By sticking it out. Yeah. Hmm. Gosh, I think for me. It would probably be like believing too much in the power of positive. Oh, yeah. Yep. Yeah. I really tried that motivational quote my way right out of this thing. Yes. Yeah. Worked real hard at that. Oh, yeah. Doesn't work.

Right. Oh, when I was a district manager, asked Brandy, you said your mom and stepdad met while working at a call center. When did your mom become a dental hygienist? My mom went to dental hygiene school when I was in elementary school. So after she married Steve she quit her job I don't she worked as like in some kind of office I don't know exactly what she did but she ended up leaving that job and going back to school full-time and did her hygiene program when I was I think like in the third and fourth grade? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Maybe fourth and fifth. I don't know exactly, but somewhere around there.

I remember when we became friends, your mom was a dental hygienist. So, yeah. So she probably did, yeah, when I was in the third and fourth grade. There you go, folks. Yeah. Now you know. That's right. Ooh, this is a good time to answer this question.

Sheenbops asks, will there be a summer break? If so, what are your plans? Yes. Just a reminder that our summer break is coming up. We take the month of June off. What do you have planned for our summer break? Nothing. I mean, that's really what I want to do, too. Yeah. So I I know I want to work really hard on my book. Yeah. And that's about it. I have no plans. Yeah. I am going to do hopefully not much. I have a couple of Lego sets I want to build because I'm very cool.

And then, yeah, I'll do London's birthday and my birthday will happen then. And David and I have like a little fun weekend trip planned oh got a couple concerts too what it's gonna be beautiful well that's where i live so i'm not going on vacation where i live patty please bleep oh yeah no we're going uh to well we're not yeah we're going to... Well, we're not... Yeah, we're not... Okay. Don't say it. Okay. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. Me too. Yeah.

Remember when people get mad? People get mad because we're looking forward to breaks. Yeah. People are ridiculous. Let me tell you something. Yeah. If you're not looking forward to time off work, you're a fucking loser. Do you not look forward to vacations?

Yeah. It's a work vacation. That's what it is. Eat my ass. Oh, my gosh. Okay, we've already answered a question from this person, but I have to answer this. Okay. Suburban Gazing Ball asks, what's the coolest bird you've ever seen?

I saw a goddamn bald eagle a few weeks ago, and I'm slightly obsessed with big birds. Okay. Not big bird. Yeah, yeah. I have seen goddamn bald eagle a few weeks ago and I'm slightly obsessed with big birds. Okay, not big bird. Yeah, yeah. I have seen a bald eagle. I saw a fucking bald eagle fly across like while I was driving on the road. I told my fucking family immediately and they're like, there's not a chance you saw a bald eagle. And then there was like a news story about how a bald eagle had been living in that area. And I was like, fuck you all.

Anyway, I saw a bald eagle had been living in that area. And I was like, fuck you all! Anyway, I saw a bald eagle. Was it a real news story? Or did you, like, write something up and Photoshop it onto, like, a CNN site? No, it was a real news story. But, like, in the local paper. It wasn't on CNN. CNN doesn't care that there was a bald eagle spotted in suburban Kansas. I'll tell you a fun story about the bird that I once saw.

Yeah, tell me. One time Norman and I were hiking through the Puerto Rican rainforest. Was very exciting. You were? Is this a real story? Yeah, this is a real story. I didn't even know you and Norm had been to Puerto Rico. It's true, we have. Okay.

There's lots you don't know about me, baby. I mean, I guess. So, we're in the rainforest. Norm brought true. We have. Okay. There's lots you don't know about me, baby. I mean, I guess. So we're in the rainforest. Norm brought his, like, fancy camera. Yeah. To capture all the fancy things. Did you see a toucan?

So I saw the most beautiful fucking bird, like, way high up in the trees. Yeah. And so I'm like, you know,

Ranger Kristen, stop. Yeah. I so I'm like, you know, Ranger Kristen, stop. Yeah. I turn. Did you do like... Wordless. Yeah. Yes.

And freaking Norm has the loudest little camera bag he, you know, unzipped. And I'm like, oh my God. And he gets the camera out,

but oh, it's not the right lens. Oh, for fuck's sake. And so like taking forever. And I keep like glancing up and somehow the bird is still there. And I'm like, hurry, hurry, hurry. So finally he gets that camera up with the right lens and it was a leaf. Mm-hmm.

Listen, it was a leaf. And that's how it had stayed still that whole time. Yeah. And it wasn't scared off by Norm's loud camera bag. Right. Yeah. He took a picture of that leaf just to be a dick. That's a solid move, Norm.

Should we read some Supreme Court inductions? Yeah! To get inducted on this podcast, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $7 level or higher. We are continuing to read your names and your first celebrity crushes! Cassie Roundy.

Daniel Clark. Deepam. Robert Pattinson. Christy. Corey Haim. F. Giklo you. Left Eye. Bitchface907. Christian Slater. Megara. Hayden Christensen. Molly

aka The Finder. Leonardo DiCaprio. Laura Lawrence. Ashley Parker Angel. The Finder. Leonardo DiCaprio. Laura Lawrence. Ashley Parker Angel. Laura Lawrence, I love your name. Holy, that just rolls right off the tongue. Sorry, did I get too excited? You look embarrassed for me.

Please leave Laura alone. Katie Nevette. Kian from Westlife. Jillian. Luke Perry. Bethany Ireland. Lightning McQueen. Jillian. Luke Perry. Bethany Ireland. Lightning McQueen. No shame.

Oscar Vest. Rain Whispers. I'm not familiar. Not familiar either. Taylor Gordner. Joey McIntyre. Sierra Peck. Brendan Fraser.

Becky Visser. Andrew Keegan. Tanya W. Andy Gibb. She says, yeah, but I'm old. I have no idea who'segan. Tanya W. Andy Gibb. She says, yeah, but I'm old. I have no idea who he is. He's one of the Bee Gees. Excuse me. Or he's the brother of the Bee Gees.

No, he, anyway, it doesn't matter. I think it matters to Tanya. It does. Connor. Carrie Ells. How do you say that? Nobody knows. Okay, very good.

Erica A. Devin Sawa. Rachel Broussard. Johnny Depp. Nadia. Jeremy Sumter from Peter Pan. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Thank you, everyone, for all of your support.

If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Instagram. What? Twitter. Did I already say that? No. Patreon. I forgot what I say there, usually. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen, and then head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a five-star rating and review.

Then be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from reporting by Paul Rubin for the Phoenix New Times and an episode of

American Justice. I got my info from an episode of Psychic Investigations, an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, an article for Medium by Nick Young, an episode of Larry King Live, UPI, the Los Angeles Times, the Daily News, and the Napa Valley Register. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it.

Go read their stuff.