Let's Go To Court! - 256: The Sweetheart Swindler & a Cold Case

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

When Desiree Boltos (literally) bumped into Dick Olmstead in Office Depot, Dick felt a spark. It didn’t matter that he was 75 and she was 32. As the two of them talked, they discovered that they had something in common – they were both single. The two quickly started dating. Dick spent lavishly on Desiree. In just two years, he estimates he spent $380k on her. But as soon as the money ran out, so did she. Then Brandi tells us about two pre-teen girls who were both raped and murdered in the same area of Tacoma Washington, just five months apart. Michella Welch and Jennifer Bastian had both been riding their bikes when they were attacked and murdered. Unfortunately, both of their cases went cold. For years, investigators held the logical assumption that the two cases were linked. After all, the girls had died in such close proximity, in such a horrific and similar manner. Surely only one person could be responsible for the two crimes. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The Sweetheart Swindler” episode of The Con The AARP podcast, “The Perfect Scam”, episodes “Sweetheart Swindler Part 1” and “Sweetheart Swindler Part 2” “Husband of ‘Sweetheart Swindler’ sentenced to 85 years for bilking older people,” by Michael Levenson for the New York Times “Husband of ‘Sweetheart Swindler’ sentenced to 125 years in scheme that targeted elderly,” by Elisha Fieldstadt “Husband of ‘Sweetheart Swindler’ sentenced to 125 years in prison,” NBCDFW “‘Sweetheart swindler’ sentenced to 85 years in prison,” by Deanna Boyd for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram “Woman accused of ‘sweetheart swindle,” Fort Worth Star Telegram “Woman found guilty in sweetheart swindler trial,” by Deanna Boyd for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram “Disabled victim of jailed ‘sweetheart swindler’ still being targeted, sister says,” by Deanna Boyd for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram “Man arrested in Las Vegas, ran after his wife was sentenced,” by Deanna Boyd for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Evil Was Watching” episode Dateline “Jennifer Bastian” chillingcrimes.com “Who Killed 2 Washington Pre-Teens Who Disappeared On Bike Rides Months Apart In 1986?” By Jill Sederstrom, oxygen.com “The man who killed Jennifer Bastian in 1986 in Tacoma has been sentenced” by Alexis Krell “Nurse Convicted in 1986 Rape and Murder of 12-Year-Old Girl Whose Body Was Found Dumped in a Ditch” by Chris Spargo, lawandcrime.com\ “'I'm so sorry,' Gary Hartman apologizes after conviction in 1986 death of Michella Welch” by Keith Eldridge and Danny Stritch, KOMO News YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 47+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Pond. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about the sweetheart swindler. And I'll be talking about a cold case.

Oh, will you now? I will. Oh, will you now? What is that accent? I don't know. I'm feeling really cute today, so I can talk however I want. You are looking very cute today, but Norm and I have already seen the error of our ways in complimenting you because now— Oh, what? What, I felt too good about myself?

You were worried I would leave the two of you for better people? She cannot even be reasoned with now, folks. Maybe I will. Maybe I will find someone even better to podcast with. Never mind, I'll find someone better than you. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Everyone. Adele did not just enter the sex dungeon.

That was, in fact, Brandy the whole time. The whole time. Incredible. Incredible. Brandy, how you doing? Oh my God. I'm doing wonderful. How are you doing? I'm obviously great. Obviously. My hot tub is up and running. It's a bubbling. You just seem like a whole different person now. Yeah. Makes me want one even more. You know what? I feel rich now. Yeah. I feel like I've made it.

Yeah, absolutely. I was sitting in my hot tub the other night thinking, oh, my God, did I ever anticipate that I'd be here? Yeah. That I'd achieve this level of success. Oh, to have a Costco hot tub of my very own. I i'm sorry i don't mean to brag to you all or do i we're all jealous it's fine yeah you should be until i get some kind of weird infection from it no because you're not letting other people in your hot tub are you not like randoms yeah i shout to the street i say anybody want to get in a hot

tub with me i think that's where the infections come from i'm just a 37 year old woman in a bikini who wants to see and you know not a lot of people do but some do are you surprised by the lack of response. I am hurt. I am hurt. Oh, let me tell you something, lady. I am excited to go first this week. Oh, you are? Yeah. Why, because then you just get to kick back and relax after you're done? Or you

have a tail you're really excited to tell. Yeah, I have an exciting tail. Excellent. It's a bushy one. That one's kind of funny. Was it? It was kind of funny. But you know what? Before I tell you about my bushy tail.

We must do an ad. Doodaloo. And we're back from the ad. Doodaloo. Yeah, are we in like the Wild West? About to have a showdown? I was not thinking Wild West. I was thinking more like, what?

Well, I was just going to say, the only showdown I want to be a part of is a showcase showdown on The Price is Right. Okay, you are an urb. Oh my gosh, can you imagine if you got called? You would lose your mind. You'd be one of those jumping ladies. Yes, I would.

Yes. If it was my turn to come on down. You'd come on down. Okay. But you know it's true, so you really can't argue. No, I was thinking my little Diddy had kind of vampire vibes, right? No. Well, you know what?

That's a mix. I hear it now. It's a mix. It's a real mashup. You're doing the Wild West song, not the lightning in the... Only because I can't do the lightning at the same time. I'm only one person, Brandy. My God. My God.

My God. I know I look incredible today. You're thinking, gosh, she could do anything. Five strong men. That's what I was thinking. Well, you're a misogynist. So it doesn't surprise me that you would feel that way. But it is true.

I could do that. What are you going to tell us about today? The sweetheart swindler. Ooh. Okay. A little cautionary tale about love. Oh. Mm-hmm.

All right. You ready? I am. Okay. Okay. Shout-outs to the Sweetheart Swindler episode of The Con. Oh, yeah. That's a new program you've been enjoying.

I have been watching this program. Whoopi Goldberg narrates it, which is so fucking weird to me. It strikes me as a strange pairing every time, but you know, like my Western music and my vampire music. Yeah. Sometimes the mashups, they work.

Yeah. Also, did you know that the AARP has their very own podcast? The AARP does? Yeah. Also, did you know that the AARP has their very own podcast? The AARP does? Yeah. Here's what I know about the AARP is that somehow my email address has been sold to them and I keep getting invitations to join. Yeah, that's because I keep talking about how you're 87. You know, Norman gets mail from them. Because his name is Norman?

Yeah, we think that's why. We think just anyone named Norman is automatically added to their list. No, so they have a podcast. It's called The Perfect Scam. Oh. And they had a two-parter. Oh. Sweetheart Swindler Part 1.

You're not going to believe what they named the next episode. Can I guess? Sure. Sweetheart Swindler Part 2. Oh, no, actually. They should have done that. Sweetheart Swindler Straight to the Penis was the name of the second episode. Absolutely.

Sweetheart Swindler Take 2. I think someone got fired. Yeah, personally, that's what i think also a ton of great reporting in newspapers.com excellent okay how'd you enjoy the aarp podcast i i took issue with some parts of it okay if you must know i I must. They had. Okay. How dare you bring this up already? Okay. So I was enjoying it.

All right. Okay. I was thinking maybe I make this part of my regular rotation. Uh-huh. But they had Frank Abagnale on there as like their expert. Oh, yeah. I hate it when we lift up these douchebags like this. Yep. And he said some stuff that I thought was really stupid.

Mm-hmm. And I can't tell you now because that'll spoil it. Also, it's really not that big of a deal. Really? You just didn't like it? I thought to myself as I was listening, I should not share these opinions. Mm. But here you are.

I'm just pulling them out of you. Somehow you knew that you needed to ask me my fucking opinion on that podcast. Damn it, Brandy. Okay. What are you sniffing? Do you smell that? No. I think love is in the air. Okay.

No. I think love is in the air. Okay. At least that's what Dick Olmsted was thinking one day in 2012 when he was in the checkout line at his local Fort Worth, Texas, Office Depot. Yeah, love is so often in the air at Office Depot. Staples. A young woman was in front of him in line. And she, oops, oh, backed up into him. Oh, she said, pardon me.

And he said, oh, no problem. Did she say, oops, all berries? No. But she might have if she'd rubbed it against his crotch. That was ridiculous. I'm sorry. You know, these stories are about real people. What the hell is wrong with me?

Okay, so they have this interaction. No berries were fondled in this interaction. To our knowledge. Then, it was the funniest thing. See, the Office Depot parking lot wasn't even that full, which I know you're thinking, what? Office Depots are always fucking packed!

You should see that place on Black Friday! But this quite attractive woman had parked her Cadillac Escalade right next to Dick's Pontiac Firebird. Oh. Yeah. Okay. So Dick, who was 74 and something of a confirmed bachelor, began talking to the woman.

And by that I mean woman because it was just a singular one. What color was his firebird? Was it red? Oh, shit, I can't remember. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. All right. I feel like they're always red.

Yeah, that's the rule. They began talking and sparks flew. Hopefully not too close to the gas tanks. Yeah, and then they blew up and died, and that's the end of the story. That's the end of the story. So their heirs sued Pontiac Fireworks. No, it was clearly the Pontiac's fault. Stupid word.

It is stupid. Zero minutes into this. I blame you. I mean, 100%. I love that. You just took total responsibility for that. I'm not responsible for that. Yeah, so the sparks flew, as they often do, between a 33-year-old and a 74-year-old.

Oh, sexy. Oh, yeah. Right? Everyone, Brandi's turned on. I am not. Brandi's too turned on to podcast. Gotta pull over. You okay there? 33 and 73?

Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. That's the age gap we're dealing with here. It's old enough to be her grandfather. Yes. Yes. Yep. The woman said her name was Desiree, and Dick didn't see a ring on her finger, so he let her know that he was single.

And she let him know that she was also single. Brandy. So cute. Just love a love connection. Yeah. Wish Chuck Woolery would need me. Okay. Okay.

You mention that man one more time and I'm going to jump out the window. Desiree was actually a widow, Brandy. So stop laughing. Yeah, she had three children. Dick was quite smitten with Desiree. So he asked her if she might like to put ointment on all of his sunspots. Oops, I mean, go out to dinner. Disgusting.

That was a rude joke I made. Desiree said yes. Why is ointment the grossest word? Dick took Desiree out for an Italian dinner Was it at the Olive Garden? I would bet my right tick it was Olive Garden 100% it was Olive Garden Maybe Carrabba's

Oh sure Maybe But definitely Olive Garden Yeah They had a great time, not that you care Jealous Desiree was quite the conversationalist Yeah, what's she talking about? They had a great time, not that you care, jealous. Desiree was quite the conversationalist.

Yeah, what's she talking about? Okay, I can tell just by the look on your face that you're thinking, oh, Dick was had a physical connection and an emotional and intellectual connection. So suck on that. Everyone, Brandy hates love. She hates a love story. I don't like to hear about a 73-year-old and a 33-year-old having a physical connection. Well, that's ageism for you. And I myself don't judge.

What on earth is that? What the fuck is that noise? Did you make that noise under the table? No, I did not make that noise. I love how you're like, interrupt. The noise clearly came from behind you. I thought it was your butt momentarily. My goodness.

My goodness. But then it went on way too long for it to be a fart. London farted so loud last night. And then she turned around and looked behind her. That's a classic move. I also respect the farting move. You know, you just peel out. After their dinner was over, Desiree invited Dick to come see her house.

And Dick was blown away by Desiree's home. It was very nice. It was like a $500,000 home. It was very nice. It was like a $500,000 home. It was very big. It sat on the end of a cul-de-sac. And it was ornately decorated in what I like to call early 2000s Tuscany vibes. Oh, I know exactly what that means. Yeah, we all do.

Yeah, uh-huh. We've got a warm beige wall with a bit of a textured motif. Oh, do we ever. Yeah. Do we ever. Question. Mm-hmm. How old is Desiree's deceased husband?

Or how old was he at the time of his passing? You know, it's kind of rough for me to talk about that because it's so emotional. So I just won't. Oh, is that what Desiree always says? No, I actually don't know. Oh, okay. I don't know. All right.

But maybe you could mind your own business because that's a really personal question. All right? All right. You want to ask me anything else? Kristen, what's your medical history? I'll never tell you. Dick walked in and he met Desiree's three young children and he met her brother, Paul, who lived there. And because Dick just asks whatever is on his mind, evidently.

Well, yeah, he's 70 fucking three. I think at some point you just. You lose the filter. Yeah. So he asked Desiree how she some point you just. You lose the filter. Yeah. So he asked Desiree how she could afford to live in such a nice home. That's kind of a rude question. That's a very rude question. But she explained that a friend of the family had made it available to her.

So that made sense. No, it doesn't. What's that mean? What do you. She's a widow with three kids. And, you know, maybe someone made this home. You ever had a spare Tuscan looking home? No.

In the Fort Worth area? No. Well, someone did. They made it available to Desiree. They got kind of a curved staircase in this thing. I'm sure they do. With wrought iron spindles. Brandy, you know it.

You know the whole deal. I don't have to tell you anything. You know exactly what this is. Along the staircase, there's also kind of just like a little framed alcove for you to put like a nice vase. Yes, absolutely. Maybe some artificial flowers. It's got to have some height to it. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. You got to bring the eye up. People will say, am I in fucking Tuscany right now? Don't even start talking about Tuscan potatoes, though. No.

You kids these days. And your fucking Tuscan potatoes. At the end of the evening, Dick told her that he'd had a nice time. What had they done at the home that evening? Was this, wait, did she go to the house? Mostly butt stuff. How dare you?

What kind of question is that? I mean, okay, did they, I'm sorry. Did they go to Desiree's house after they went to the Olive Garden? Is this all the same night? I believe yes all right all right so maybe maybe they cut and sliced a little on the episode of the con but that's what I okay led to believe okay he said he went there to feel her okay oh boy am i funny or am i funny he asked if she'd like to go out again sometime and desiree said sure did she say it like that no no no she was like think about how jazzed you'd be if you were out

with a 74 year old you get home and you still got a whole evening ahead of you it's 5 45 and he's tired he's ready to hit the sack he's ready to go home and you're like all right bye so dick and desiree began dating gross dick was thrilled despite how judgy you're being. He was a retired Navy officer. I am not as alarmed by age gaps as you are. This one is obscene. It should be outlawed. Is that what you're saying?

I am concerned. Hmm. What are your concerns? Well, okay. I'm guessing that this is going to go the way of, like, elder abuse. She's going to take him for all he's worth. It's fine. Continue on.

What? It seemed like there was more there. You stopped yourself. You hit the brakes a little too soon. I did. I submit. Nope. like there was more there you stopped yourself hit the brakes a little too soon i did i submit nope i'm gonna keep the rest of my thoughts to myself until this story further develops brandy i wish you wouldn't come on come on come on come on come on come on come on nope all right she's a coward everyone she's a coward, everyone. She's a coward.

Okay. So Dick's thrilled. Not that you give a shit. He was a retired Navy officer, and he said that the Navy hadn't been conducive to marriage, so he'd never married, which is interesting because I've never known anyone in the military who hadn't been married from, like, the time they were an infant. Yes. Anyway, now Dick was just living his

life and you know it's pretty good he was a birder so that was thrilling yeah what's what's dick do for money he's 74 so he's retired yes what okay how how's his how's this 401k looking? How's his... Boy, you just ask all kinds of questions. You know what? Truth is, he has an investment portfolio that's doing just fine. Thank you. Okay. And again, he's a retired naval officer.

So, you know. Why are you acting like you're hearing this for the first time? Yes. Well, I'm just saying that he's got a good retirement coming in then if he's retired in the military. Sure. Sure. Also, he's a birder. Yeah, you already mentioned that.

I don't care about that. He's not making any money birding. Wow. It's all about the money for you, isn't it? No, I'm concerned that it's all about the money for Desiree. Oh. I think she might be the sweetheart swindler. No, it's actually Dick.

You would think he had aged out of that category, but some people, they keep on dreaming, you know. Dick was also a huge Trump fan, so much so that he had a Trump-Pence bumper sticker on his car. so much so that he had a Trump-Pence bumper sticker on his car. And when he was interviewed for this episode of The Con, he had a Vote Republican 2020 sign in his yard. Isn't that nice? It is. His home was filled with books, just books everywhere,

multiple Bibles, at least one Charles Lindbergh biography. His modest home was decorated in a way that frankly screams, I am a straight guy who has lived alone for decades. I have to tell you this. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I would now like to describe to you. Yeah. This just one shot.

Okay. From inside Dick's home. In this shot, he's at a desk. Okay. It's covered in stuff. And directly behind him, like, you swirl your office chair around, full-blown refrigerator. What? Yeah. Okay.

Thank you. Okay. Next to that full-blown refrigerator. What? Yeah. Okay, thank you. Next to that full-blown refrigerator is a filing cabinet. What? Next to the filing cabinet is a sound system. What the hell is happening

in this room? What is this room? Is it an office? What is it? The con answered none of these questions. I submit because they didn't have the nuts. That must be it.

At any rate, Dick and Desiree kept dating, and eventually he asked her to be exclusive. Oh, shit. He really liked her kids, and he really cared for her. And so when Desiree asked Dick for a little financial help, he was more than happy to oblige. After all, she was a widow. She, you know, probably needed help with a utility bill or something.

Yeah, how much did she ask for? He doesn't remember the exact amount, but he thinks like 300, 400 bucks. All right. And he wants you to know that for him, that was pocket change, okay? Oh, shit. Excuse me, dick. I'd like to point out that we're several minutes into this story, and I've not laughed at his name once. You know, I am stunned by that.

You're maturing before our very eyes. That's right. You know, I think you ought to go ahead and sign up for that AARP newsletter. I think you ought to go ahead and sign up for that AARP newsletter. I think you're ready. He was just being a gentleman, Brandy. He was happy to provide that money. And you know what? When Desiree asked him to take her out to buy some new clothes, he was, again, happy to oblige. Okay. Sure. They went to the mall and they went to Nordstrom's and Macy's and Dillard's and, um, turns out Desiree had expensive taste.

I would now like to read to you a list of some of the items that Dick bought for Desiree. Oh, fuck yes, please. Okay, but I have to assume that these were purchased over multiple shopping surprise because I can't imagine how this all happened at once. Okay. Seems impossible. All right. $800 on shoes. $4,000 on cosmetics.

That's a lot. Yeah. You and I spend a lot of money on makeup. Never come close to that. Yeah. $3,000 on lingerie. Wow. $1.2K on a leather jacket.

Oh. $650 on a bracelet. $1.8K on earrings. $2,700 on a pearl necklace. Hold for a giggle from Brandy. Dick gave her a pearl necklace. Brandy, you got anything to say about that? No, because I'm

very mature. Wow, good job. Also, about a grand on luggage. $700 on perfume. $350 on a silk robe $1500 on a purse

and this is my personal favorite Dick said that Desiree also picked out a lady Rolex that was about $20,000 Oh my gosh! A lady Rolex, Brandi Yeah, it's a Rolex for a lady.

Yeah, you get it. Dick said, if she wanted something, I got it for her. That seemed to be one of the main activities we engaged in as a couple. Spending my money. Dick is sassy. But the thing is, Desiree was actually very rich herself. Like super rich. According to who?

Oh. According to Desiree? Hold on. She just didn't have access to her money yet. It wasn't liquid. Yeah. Technically also not hers yet. Okay. Whose is it hers yet. Okay. Whose is it?

Okay. So about two months into their relationship, Desiree explained to Dick that she'd been raised by a very wealthy woman who lived in Las Vegas. This woman was not her biological mother. She was just a super rich lady who loved Desiree. Quit looking at me like that, Brandy. I'm skeptical. That super rich lady had died and she died without a will. So now it's a whole legal mess, okay? A probate court had been tasked with settling this woman's estate and assuming

everything went as it should, Desiree would eventually be awarded about $34 million. Wow. Not bad, huh? That is a sizable chunk of change. Yeah. So who cares if you spend 700 bucks on perfume for her? She's about to get 34 mil.

It's just an investment. In a way, sure. Just like how you sometimes pay for my shopping sprees. Never. But, you know, legal battles, they cost money. My shopping sprees are like, my total for the day is like one of those items that they purchased. Like one Lady Rolex per day. No.

Absolute max. purchased. Like one lady Rolex per day. No. Max. Absolute max. Never two lady Rolexes. When I hit up the Nordstrom rack for a shopping spree. Maybe a gentleman Rolex. I could drop 300 bucks there. Yeah. I'm also quite wealthy when I go to

Nordstrom rack. I really don't hold back either. Desiree needed money to go to Vegas to attend the trial. What trial? The probate trial? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. And she needed to pay her own legal fees because, you know, this involved her, too. So she needed money from Dick for that. Yeah, Dick needed to finance all of that. But she was totally going to pay him back when she got the $34 million.

Well, I don't know that they even talked about her paying him back. It's just, you know. When you're in a relationship, this is what you do. You support the other person. It's called dating. You ever tried it? Not you. You just jump right into marriage.

Yeah, so Dick estimates he paid for Desiree to go to Vegas like five or six times. And you might think that a trip from Texas to Las Vegas wouldn't be that expensive, but you'd be so wrong. How much is it? Each of these trips cost about $10,000. What? Yeah. They've really got to make these trips more affordable. Yeah.

I say. Dick also paid for Desiree to fly out to Honolulu. What was in Honolulu? I'm so glad you asked. The dead lady had owned property out there, and Desiree needed to be there to do things to the property. What kind of things? Run the hose.

Uh-huh. I don't know. Okay, flush the toilets. Yeah. That kind of thing. All right. Yeah. You know, you don't flush those toilets for a while. Who knows what's going to happen? You get a snake in your vagina. That's what happens. And a fly in your boot. Now, one frustrating aspect of their relationship was that Dick and Desiree didn't have sex.

Dick really wanted to, and Desiree definitely wanted to as well. But you see, she had a tumor on her ovary, and it made sex extremely painful for her. extremely painful for her. She wanted to, but wouldn't. Craved it, but couldn't. Desired it, but dared not. Super horned up, unable to take the D in the V.

Okay. And of course, I'm taking that all directly from the transcript of the con. I don't believe so. Um, what? Yeah, right. What? from the transcript of the con. I don't believe so. Um. What? All right. What? You're really holding back.

Well, because I don't want to victim blame. Come on, dick. Yeah, I also, um, have had some struggles with this one. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Here's my thought. Mm-hmm.

You're 74. Yeah. No 33-year-old wants to fuck you. Nope. Sorry. None of them do. Yeah. None of them do.

Nope. If they are with you, it's for a reason. Nope's for what they're getting from it. Yes. Yeah. And like you can decide you're cool with that. Absolutely. Absolutely. You can decide. Yes. This is enough for me. Yeah. This is enough for me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But how do you not know that that's what's happening? Yeah. Is my question.

Yeah. Okay. Dick was very understanding about the tumor situation. He even paid for Desiree to have surgery to get that tumor removed. Was it unsuccessful? I think it worked, but you know, you got, it takes a while to recover from these surgeries, Brandi. Take it from me, all right? All right. Things were getting pretty serious between them. And so after dating for just a few months, Dick decided it was time to take their relationship to the next level. What's the next level?

Marriage? He got down on one knee, which couldn't have been easy for him and his host. Dear Dick. Well, it couldn't have been easy. 74. Desiree should have stopped him. She should have been like, no, it's not necessary.

I get it. I'll picture you on one knee. Desiree said yes. And after she said yes, Dick went in for a French kiss and Desiree shoved him away. She said, don't ever try and stick your tongue down my throat. And that makes sense because Desiree also had a tumor on her throat. See, she wanted to, but wouldn't. Craved it, but couldn't.

Desired it, but dared not. Super horned up. Unable to take the tea in the tea. Gross. So Desiree and Dick were engaged now. It was all so exciting. It was all so romantic. And then Dick got a call from his bank's fraud department.

That call did not go well. Because this person from Chase Bank, who was supposedly good at spotting fraud, was trying to tell Dick that Desiree was a big sketchball who was involved in some sort of criminal activity. Oh, really? Yeah. Tell me more. Tell me more. Well, Dick didn't want to know anymore. He said, well, you just ticked me off because you're bad-mouthing my fiance he was outraged but the bank ended up closing his checking account because

they were like dude this is for your own good well yeah because he's like an elderly guy who's likely being taken advantage of well you know what that manager said? The manager said, no 33-year-old wants to fuck you, sir. And by the way, she isn't fucking you. So shouldn't that be a clue? Yeah. I'm sorry for being an asshole. That's what the manager of the bank said. That's what the manager of the bank said, yeah.

And also me. When Desiree realized that the bank had closed Dick's account, she was pissed off. She was even more pissed off when she'd heard that they'd implied she was some sort of fraudster. Who was Dick going to believe, those assholes in the fraud department at Chase Bank or his fiancée who really wanted to have sex with him but couldn't because of her lady troubles? but couldn't because of her lady troubles. In the span of, like, two years, Dick says he spent about $380,000 on Desiree. Holy shit.

That was nearly everything he had. Yeah. He told her, I have no more money to spend on you. I don't have it. And she told him that, you know, she's a widow with three young children to support. So if he couldn't do it, she was going to have to go off to be with relatives, you know, maybe California, you know. And that's how their relationship ended. Yeah. I don't know at what point Dick realized that Desiree had taken advantage of him, but I do know that the police became aware of what Desiree had done to him and that all went in a file. And that file also included information on what Desiree had done to a man named Danny Barnett.

Oh, really? Really. Let's hear about Danny Barnett. Oh really? Really. Let's hear about Danny Barnett. Okay. Desiree and Danny met in 2011 when Danny was 71 and Desiree was 32. Brandi, I got a question for you. Where do you meet an old man at the Mimi's Cafe. Don't you wish. They met at the post office. Oh, sure. They started talking, you know, things got flirty and they went out for coffee. Danny told Desiree about how he'd lost his wife to breast cancer. And, oh no, I hate to tell you this, but over time, Desiree developed that exact same type of cancer. Mm hmm.

So Danny, who had been a machinist for 50 years working on helicopters. Aren't you glad I included that last time I had a machinist? You were like, what did they work on? There you go. Yeah. Do you think that he did like a helicopter dance? And that's why they had to let him go. They said not at work.

He said, Danny, you got to pick one. I don't think he was doing the helicopter dance at work. Well, he certainly wasn't doing it at home. You spend all day working on helicopters and you come home and do more helicopter shit? No, Brandy. All right, I see your point. That's too much. Okay. You come home and just do hair all day?

You come home and do some extra podcast episodes? No, not usually. usually no you don't you helicopter that's all you do he'd always lived a pretty modest lifestyle but you know he fell in love with desiree and he met her children what how is she targeting these men like obviously they're older men is she what well i mean how'd she know dick had 380 000 i mean i guess she didn't she was just willing to take whatever he had sure oh is there more to it what do you mean is there more did she do research on these gentlemen Does she do research on these gentlemen? Okay, so that – we'll get into that a little more.

But, I mean, I don't know. All right. I do know, actually. You're just not going to tell me now. I know because I researched this whole damn thing. All right, I'll keep my fucking pants on. this whole damn thing. All right, I'll keep my fucking pants on. Danny was in a panic

over the idea that Desiree might die from the same type of cancer that had killed his late wife. What a wacky coincidence. Yeah. So he paid for all of her cancer treatments.

That she did not receive. She got them done in California, Brandy, because everyone knows that you can't get cancer treatments in Texas. They just don't have them. Everywhere there's supposed to be some kind of oncology center, there's just a Whataburger.

And you know what? I think they should take out some of the Whataburgers and put in. Cancer treatment centers? I think they should. But you know what? I'm not in charge. I should be, but I'm not. Could be, but can't.

Would, but won't. Do you want to get Ted Cruz on the phone? See if you guys can. I just talked to him the other day. See if you guys can coordinate something. We're going to Cancun. Oh, great. Desiree told him that it cost about $20,000 per tumor to remove.

How many tumors did she have? You know, I'm not exactly sure, but I know that whatever amount she had, he paid for. No tumor left behind. Yeah. That's what he said as he wrote the checks. He did not say that. I know. Danny was excited about his relationship with Desiree, but not everyone was happy for him. One of his childhood friends was very worried about him. Yes, you're being scammed, my dude.

Yeah. Danny was such a sweet guy, also pretty naive, and she worried that Desiree was taking advantage. So she went to the police. She told them about the situation, said, I'm concerned about my friend. And she ended up speaking with this detective, Jim Hobbs. And Detective Jim was like, oh, Desiree Bultos? Yeah, I'm familiar. Huh? He knew the deal.

Okay, so this is not the first time. Scammy scam scams. Doing the can-can while you scam scam. I'm very sorry. I don't know why I said that. But now I kind of want to sing. Can candy. Can you do the scam scam. Can you do the scam scam.

Well we eat some spam. Spam spam spam. I'll keep working on that song. But I can tell you want more. And you want choreo and i don't blame you yeah just a spoiler it's gonna be the can can well yeah you need a kick line yeah obviously so i can do it alone but i would prefer not to right can can you i can but i can't would but won't desire Desire but don't.

Anyhow. There wasn't much that could be done, Brandy. Really? Well, this is one of those gross gray areas where it's like, well. How much are they willingly? Yeah. What's actually a scam? It wasn't love.

It wasn't love. You know, Lady Gaga's singing in the background. I was trying to figure out what song that was. Perfect Illusion. Dumbass. My favorite thing is you look like you've been struck. Literally, everyone knew what song I was singing. You're the only one who didn't know. I doubt that.

Lady Gaga herself is listening. She's like, oh my God, is that me singing? What are the chances they got me and Adele on this episode? They got a star-studded cast there today. Pretty high dollar budget. Let's go to court podcast. Yeah. So this is one of these murky areas.

All right. Yeah. But the detective called Danny and tried to tell him that Desiree was a scammer. But Danny refused to believe it. The detective told him, look, OK, you know, that guy, Paul, Paul Hill. Yeah. Her brother. Yeah that guy paul paul hill yeah her brother yeah and danny's like yeah her brother i know it's not really her brother the detective was like no dude that's her common law husband okay i almost said something when you were talking about dick going over and her brother Paul being there. And I was like, is it really her brother?

I felt vibes. You felt the fucking her brother vibes, didn't you? I did. But you were scared to say it. I was scared to say it. There's been a lot of stuff I'm scared to say on this episode. I was going to say, you're holding back so much. So much.

Again, because I don't want to victim blame. That's not what I'm here to do. What if the victim deserves it? Like, he's 74 and he doesn't deserve it. He doesn't deserve it. But goddamn, dick. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Okay, so Paul's her fucking husband, common law. Yeah, and those three children she has. They're Paul's. Yeah. Yeah. Which I'm against incest, so I think it's wrong. Yeah, we know.

We had to bleep some stuff on an episode once. What did we have to bleep? You want to bleep it again? Did I call somebody ****? Patty, bleep it. No, it's okay. They don't know the context.

No, people will definitely figure out the context. You got to bleep it. Sorry, Patty. Get that bleep button going. This detective's like, Desiree and Paul are are in on this together they are scamming you but danny was adamant the man who desiree lived with was her brother and she was going to california for cancer treatments and that's why she needed the money yeah and she and paul were

just like super close just like it's normal for a brother and sister to kiss. Kiss sometimes. That's right. And cuddle. Those back rubs, totally normal. Share a bed. I'm getting so uncomfortable. Then you shouldn't have said that.

I know. Because you knew I would take it too far. So who's to blame? So the detective was like okay all right well i tell you what why not just ask some more questions about these treatments why not um ask for some documentation you know but um right around this time after just one month of dating desireeiree proposed to Danny. And he said yes. Okay.

And they got married. They did. They sure did. Danny, no. None of Danny's friends or family were invited to the wedding. Yeah, because they would have, at that part, where they're like, if anybody objects, speak now or forever hold your peace. Yeah, they probably would have abducted Danny for his own good. part where they're like if anybody objects speak now or forever hold your peace like everybody would have abducted danny for his own good um danny bought desiree a cadillac escalade oh she had that when she picked up dick at the office depot i was getting some dick i was getting some

dick i'm sorry wait is that an actual song? I was getting some head. I was getting some head. See, what I did there was a remix. Yes, I'm familiar. You wouldn't understand. He also bought her a house for them to live in. Was it like a $500,000

kind of Tuscan vibe number? Oh, you've heard about it. Yeah, so Desiree moved into it with her three children and her brother. And she was like, okay, so me and my brother, we're going to take

the primary bedroom. It's not even that nice. She was going to have Danny move in real soon. She just, you know, had to get it ready for him. Just, you know, you live over there in your one-bedroom apartment. I'll live in this house you bought with my three kids and my brother, my bangable brother.

Her words, not mine. Her words, not mine. Yeah, so Danny's in a one-bedroom apartment that had a mattress, a chair, and a TV in it. Oh, my gosh. He wasn't doing well. At one point, he fell, and he hit his head and had to be hospitalized. And I'm sure that Desiree was by his side for all of that. No, not all of it.

Uh-huh. One part, though. She showed up to the hospital with a mobile notary and had Danny sign a DNR? Oh, no. Power of attorney. Which is also bad. Which doesn't that give you... Yeah, yeah, no. Power of attorney. This is all so bad. Which doesn't that give you – Yeah, yeah, yes. Well, it depends on if it's financial or medical power of attorney.

There's kind of two different versions. I'm betting she wanted both. Yeah, I'm betting the same thing. Then Danny died. And Desiree got everything. Holy shit. And she got it very quickly because Danny didn't have a will and she was his wife and she had power of attorney. Yeah.

When Tarrant County Assistant District Attorney Lori Varnell took over the county's elder financial fraud unit, she came across this file with, you know, this story about Danny and the story about Dick. And she thought, you know, maybe they had a case against Desiree. But they needed more information. So investigators did some digging and discovered that the money that Dick had given to Desiree for her legal battle in Las Vegas and the money that Danny had given to Desiree for her cancer treatments in California had all gone into her cage account for the Bellagio Casino in Las Vegas. Holy shit. What's a cage account?

I don't have a clue. I expect you to know these things. I don't know. You think I'm big money gambling? No. I don't know. You've done it before. I've never in my life.

I don't know. Isn't the cage the part where they talk about like at the casino? Isn't the cage where they keep all the money? That's where you go like buy chips and stuff. I don't know. I thought they gave you chips with some salsa. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm truly unstoppable today. They discovered that the money that Dick had paid to remove the tumor from Desiree's ovary had actually been spent on... What do you think? Boob job? Vaginal rejuvenation. Oh, you would know about that i would also about removing a tumor yeah from an ovary yeah you and desiree have a lot in common we sure do

we love office depot yeah get real horned up at Office Depot. So horned up. Love a good Nordstrom trip. Yep. What else? I think that's it. That's where the similarities. But that's only because I don't have a brother. You do have a husband with an old man name. He's not an old man though.

That's where I fucked up. As the investigators were subpoenaing these records, they spotted a bunch of money transfers from this guy named Paul Wilbur. And they were like, oh, shit, who's this? Yeah. Turns out Paul was 75 years old. Oh, fuck. He was a retired veteran and he lived in Alabama. He'd met Desiree on a plane.

She'd been sitting next to her brother. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, Paul and Desiree hit it off and exchanged numbers. Great. Paul was thrilled to have this romance with Desiree. He'd recently lost his wife to colon cancer, so he was pretty lonely. And oh no, you're not going to believe this, but shortly after Desiree heard that... She got colon cancer?

She developed colon cancer. It's all 100% true. What a sad situation, am I right? Yeah. Single mother to three young children dying of colon cancer. Paul paid for all of her cancer treatments. He was happy to do it. Of course he was. And how much was that?

It was a lot. When Desiree told him about a new business venture where she was starting like a gift shop in a hotel in Las Vegas, Paul invested more than a million dollars into Desiree's business. Cage account at the Bellagio. No, gift shop. He took out a second mortgage on his house to pay for it. Oh, my gosh. It was all of his retirement money.

By the way, would that be your dream to, like, run a gift shop? Or do you just want to shop in a gift shop? Fucking amazing. I your dream to run a gift shop? Or do you just want to shop in a gift shop? Fucking amazing. I would love to run a gift shop. I told you my retirement plan. What is it? I'm moving to Key West. I'm doing a Carl Tanzler tour.

And of course, we will have a gift shop at the end of the tour. I love that for you, retirement is still a ton of work. That's your dream. Maybe I'll do it like a little bit less than I did now. Just a little 60-hour retirement exam. Exactly. I'm going to cut back to 60 hours a week. What will I do with all the spare time?

Who knows? Desiree kept asking for more money, but by that point, Paul didn't have much more to give. Yeah. And he told her that much. And then Desiree gave him some bad news. She died.

Colon cancer. No. Brandy. But she and her children were now homeless so she had the colon cancer and yeah no home no rolex yet no lady rolex yeah could that be a good drag name you think lady rolex one thousand percent i don't know i don't know that yes it's wonderful all right yes that's our gift to you yeah you want to take it lady rolex yes wonderful wears a lot of silver and pearl outfits obviously very high end and she shouts i don't have time for Time for this. Oh, gosh. It's all so good.

It is. So Paul gave her everything he had. Investigators in Texas learned that Paul Wilbur learned about Paul Wilbur, is what I meant to say. That's okay. How embarrassing. Here I've said only the perfect thing at the perfect time this whole podcast. That's right. And I've messed up.

Yeah. Today, mark it down, folks. Kristen's first mistake ever. Mm-hmm. So sad. I guess we'll erase that perfect run we had going. I mean, you would know nothing about it. You're right. Because you can't say dispatch.

I've gotten much better at saying dispatch. Thank you. Investigators in Texas learned about Paul Wilbur. Oh, that makes way more sense. And they decided, you know what? Enough is enough. This is clearly a pattern. It's time to arrest Desiree.

Yeah, it's clearly a pattern. Okay, calm down, Brandi. Like I said, these things are really hard to prosecute. I know. Well, also, exactly what crime do they charge her with? Fraud? Pretending to be sick? It's actually a unique crime where you tell someone, I need a tumor removed, but then you get rejuvenated. Which is something I did on this very podcast. Okay, all right. What? No, say it. I think it's difficult to prosecute because these men willingly gave her money under false pretenses, yes.

Mm-hmm. All right. It does seem like it will be difficult to prosecute. yes. Alright. It does seem like it will be difficult to prosecute. So I'd love to hear more about what she is charged with. First you have to give me compliments. I already gave you so many compliments today that you could barely fit in this room with your big

old head. And just like that you take barely fit in this room with your big old head. And just like that, you take away the compliment. Do you want to tell everyone the rude thing you said to me at lunch to my husband? Yeah. The man who loves me most in all the world. Okay. I was talking about how amazing my husband is, David. You've all heard of him.

He's wonderful. Anyway. Oh, my God. I was going on and on. And then Norm said that he wanted to marry David. You've all heard of him. He's wonderful. Anyway, I was going on and on and then Norm said that he wanted to marry David and I said, you would be so lucky to be married to David.

She goes on and on. She's like, you would be the luckiest person to be married to David. You have no idea. Meanwhile, I'm sitting there. As if Norm's not already married to Kristen. And very lucky to be married to you. Yeah. And very lucky to be married to you. The best person on earth.

He won the lottery and you're like, you know what? Why don't you take another spin, kid? Anyway. My comments were purely about my husband

and in no way a dig at you, Kristen. Mmm. Mmm. my husband and in no way a dig at you kristin anyhow they want to arrest desiree yeah i'm amazing they did have trouble finding her okay sneaky sneak yeah where's she at she's sneaking off okay here, sneaking there, sneaking everywhere. She's like a sneaky little snake. In a toilet. Ooh. I'm going to bite your vagina. That's my greatest fear.

We can't joke about it. So police couldn't find her, but they did find her common law husband brother paul what's paul up to well he just happened to be driving a brand new truck imagine that yeah and they were like oh god okay who really paid for that truck because it sure as shit wasn't desiree or paul it's another paul exactly this does this man does not look like a paul to me oh he doesn't uh you Desiree or Paul. It could have been other Paul. Exactly. Paul W. This man does not look like a Paul to me. Oh, he doesn't? You know that thing where I call somebody the wrong name all the time? Yeah.

I called him Chris for this entire script, and I realized I fully made that up. He just looks like a Chris to you? Yes, he looks so much more. I submit that, you know, mmm. I know what you want to say. What do I want to say? He looks like a Chad. Is that what you're going to say? No, that's I know what you want to say. What do I want to say? He looks like a Chad. No, that's not what I was going to say.

I was going to say maybe this isn't his real name, which is the only explanation for how he got named Paul, because no one would ever name him Paul. All right. Unless it was like, OK, we all got to change our names. So let's pull some names out of a hat. Oh, shit. You're sorry, Chris. You're stuck with Paul. Okay, we all got to change our names, so let's pull some names out of a hat. Oh, shit. Sorry, Chris, you're stuck with Paul. You're obviously Chris.

Anyhow. So he's driving a brand new truck. Police are very sus. Yeah. Wait, no, that's not how you use that. The situation was sus. Oh, okay. The police were suspicious.

Yeah. They had suspicions. They were spish. About this suspicious character in the brand new car, which was a Silverado. Anyhow, so they used their police Google machine and discovered that the person who'd paid for that truck was a man named Doug Wingo. Who the fuck is Doug Wingo? Well, he was a disabled veteran. Oh my gosh. He was 67. He'd been exposed to Agent Orange when he was a Marine. He also had a brain injury, which stemmed from being mugged. So yeah, this is exactly who you want to be taken advantage of. Isn't that great? Yeah, that's great.

So investigators called Doug and they asked about the truck and Doug said that he bought the truck for his girlfriend, Desiree Bultos. Desiree, hi. He bought... Who are you saying hi to? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. He bought it for her because she needed it for her business.

Oh, yeah? What kind of business she got? She got to put it in a gift shop? No. So, okay, I saw that gift shop thing. Other times she was an interior decorator for a hotel. I think her real business was ripping off old dudes. Yes.

That's correct. As it turned out, that wasn't the only car he'd bought for Desiree. In just two months, he'd purchased three brand new vehicles for her. Where are the rest of them? Well, hang on. Oh, sorry. Chevy Camaro. Not that you asked.

Okay. Chevy Tahoe. Silverado Crew Cab. Mm-hmm. sorry chevy camaro not that you asked okay chevy tahoe silverado crew cab which feels like there's a word missing no no there's not they just call it silverado crew cab yeah and then they put a period at the end of it and then you're just done well there's different versions of that but yeah probably not how do you got that Well, there's different versions of that, but yeah. Probably not. How do you cut that? So the investigators were like, hey, Lori, got another one for you. And Prosecutor Lori was like, okay, cool.

And she went back to the grand jury like, hey, Desiree scammed another dude. I need to add him to the indictment. And the grand jury was like, yes, go get her. And they said it grandly because how else would they say it? Because they're a grand jury. Yeah. Yeah. We get it.

And then they had grand biscuits to snack on because what else would they do? But this case, Brandy, was like whack-a-mole. And it was very fun. And also because these investigators kept coming across these suspicious money transfers. You know, I got to say, I've got a lot of energy today and I think it's the hot tub. I told you you seem like a whole new person. I've got a whole new vibe. Yeah.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, there's jets and they really blow me away you know they look i don't have anything to blow don't make this weird you know what i was about to say i was about to say it's just like calgon but calgon was taking me away is calgon still in business because i give that slogan up to them Calgon was taking me away. It wasn't blowing me away.

Is Calgon still in business? Because I give that slogan up to them. Blow me away. Calgon, blow me away. Yeah. You know, in the 90s, companies did some real edgy marketing. Oh, like Herbal Essences? Yeah, I feel like if Calgon wants to really step it up a notch. Yeah, when we were kids, ladies were having orgasms in the shower every commercial break.

Yeah. And now? Never. They're just washing their fucking hair. It's a sad turn of events. Anyway, Calgon, blow me away. Anyway, your jets are blowing you away in your hot tub every night. Yeah, and I think it's given me a better personality. Don't you agree?

Anyhow, these investigators kept coming across more suspicious money transfers. From who? More old dudes? Yeah, you're starting to catch on. The latest batch was from an 86-year-old man named Richard Lima. Turns out Richard had lost his... I love his beans. Wow. You have exercised such restraint. There have been a couple times. The detective had the last name Hobbs, and I kept waiting for you to make some stupid Calvin and Hobbes joke.

Didn't happen. We started this whole story with the guy named Dick. Yeah. You wanted to, but you didn't. Couldn't. Wanted to, wouldn't. Desired to, but didn't. Couldn't hold back on Lima.

Yeah, it was too good. It was. We are glad. We're all, hang on, hold for that laughter to die down a bit. And here we go. Okay, so Richard had lost his wife to cancer and he was lonely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

This woman is a fucking asshole. She's the worst. And he was lonely and isolated. And so he decided to try online dating. And he'd connected with Desiree. Great. Yeah. Not everyone can be as lucky as you, Brandy.

Just find another slut. Look at his slutted up. The two of them quickly hit it off. David, I'm sorry for calling you a slut. Brandy, I offer you no apologies. Desiree made plans to visit him, but she never got on the, I almost said train. In fact, it was a plane that she never got on. But you know what?

She also didn't get on a train. So in a way, I was right. Was it a midnight train? I don't think she was going down to Georgia. No, she'd be going anywhere. No, midnight train to Georgia. Or a midnight Train going anywhere. Okay.

I feel like you learn a lot about a person by figuring out what song they associate that with. Like who's cool and who's not. Sure, you're cool, I'm not. We were all thinking that. Because, I don't know if I mentioned it, I have a hot tub now. I know! Do you want to know why she didn't get on that plane, train, or automobile, Brandy? Why?

Because she was homeless now, and so were her three kids, and oops, more cancer. Okay. Oops, more cancer okay oops more cancer it lessens the blow when you say it like that richard felt so awful for desiree that he transferred a hundred thousand dollars to her for fuck's sake so this investigator was like like, oh, my God, no. And he called Richard. He's like, first of all, I love your beans.

And he was like, hey, I'm calling about Desiree Bultos. And Richard was like, oh, good. Are you going to help her? And the investigator was like, dude. Yeah, he's like, oh, good, are you going to help her? And the investigator was like, dude. No, man, I'm trying to help you. Yeah, he's like, oh, man, what now? And Richard's like, yeah, she's homeless. She has cancer.

She needs help. No, she has, like, extra cancer. Oops, all cancer. That's in poor taste, Kristen. Listen, I am finally getting my mammogram tomorrow and i am scared shitless i am once again convinced it's gonna be oops all cancer for me dog but i am bravely yeah going to get my mammogram did you know you're not supposed to wear deodorant to the appointment what or lotions lotions make sense to me what's the wrong with

deodorant what are they doing your armpits i don't know but they're asking for a world of hurt the lady on the phone asked me what time i wanted my appointment this was before i realized that i you know i had to show up well you can't just wash off your deodorant like right before you go well so that's what i found out i was was like, you know, I asked for an afternoon appointment, and she's like, okay, and just real casual. Like, she's like, also don't wear deodorant. Also don't wear lotions or perfumes. And I was like, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, she seemed excited for me.

How about my first mammogram? We're all very excited for you. Oh, yeah. It's going to be a great experience. I think she just wants to see my tits. And you know what? I think that no deodorant thing is just a kink of hers. I don't think it has anything to do with the machines.

That's what I suspect. Anyhow, are you all right? I'm wonderful. You're looking very serious. No, I just, I know your medical anxiety. I'm here to tell you that it's great that you're getting a mammogram and that everything's going to go wonderful. Well, maybe not. Well, stop putting that out in the universe.

Suck it back in. That's not how that works. You think that's how it works? I think it could be how it works oh shit shit no cancer i'm a big believer in manifesting well great i just manifested that's what i'm saying suck it back in into my body that's the problem i'm gonna blow it up. Like a poison. To you. Anyway, okay, so this investigator's like, oh, dude, no, she doesn't need help. She's a scammer.

And Richard was really sad. He said that his family had tried to tell him that he'd been scammed, but he hadn't wanted to believe it. No. But wait, there's more. Then investigators found out about this 85 year old woman named lois carden lois and desiree met on a dating site what plenty of fish which is a half step above craigslist what well i mean she's not having sex with him anyway why not why not meet the ladies you seem just as scandalized as this prosecutor she was like what i wasn't but now it's like no yeah

she's not she's not having sex with any of them anyway so no and there's no attraction there's it's money do you have money money yes i would like your money now. Great news, Brandy. Lois and Desiree got along great. Oh, good. Yeah. Desiree slash Lisa, which was her new name. Desiree flew out to Palm Beach, Florida to meet Lois. And they did some sightseeing and they had a great time.

And at one point it seems that maybe Lois thought that she was like maybe co-signing on a car for Desiree's business. But in reality, she bought the car and just gave it to Desiree. Oh, my gosh. What is Desiree doing with all of these cars? I don't know. And frankly, that's none of your business. Um, she also took Desiree on a shopping spree and either gave Desiree her credit card or Desiree maybe copied down some critical numbers. And I don't really understand this at all, but the show The Con said that Desiree made herself a merchant processor.

Okay. Which meant she had the right to approve credit card transactions. Okay. What the hell does that mean? I don't know. You're supposed to know these things. I don't know that thing. You know, every now and then I'm like, I don't get it, but I bet you Brandy does. I've never heard of that thing.

I apologize. Well, we are screwed Italy. At any rate, after the dust settled on this fun Florida trip, Lois saw that Desiree had cherished. I thought she cherished something. She cherished the time they spent until she saw that Desiree had charged

15 grand to her credit card in just a week. Okay? 15 grand? Let me know if I can help. Siri, you can't help. Unless you can tell us what a merchant processor is.

What, you're taking off your watch as punishment to your watch? Yeah. Want to set it in the corner? Yes, you're a time out. So, yeah, Lois realized that she'd been scammed, so she called the police and reported her car stolen. And so the prosecutors in Texas found out about Lois, and they were like, what? A woman? Oh, my God.

Did she report her car stolen or her card stolen? Hallmark cards aren't cheap, Brandy. And she'd left that card inside her car. And so she reported the card stolen. And in effect, I probably said card. No, no, no. You said car. The car that she thought she was co-signing on. Is that the car?

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Is everything all right? Yes. It's a complicated story. I'll slow down down and i'll be sure to enunciate uh blah blah my card i thought you meant credit card oh not a hallmark card thank you very And Desiree said to the police, I'm a merchant processor, so go fuck yourself.

So I can charge whatever I want to charge. All right. Are you ready for one more scam? Yeah. Got room for one more scam? I don't know. I'm pretty full of scams. Did anyone save room for another scam?

It's Shrimp Scampi. Oh, my. This next scam was really something. And I hate to play favorites, Brandy, but of all the people who Desire scammed 76 year old jim schmidt is my favorite okay he has a very little dog very little dog whom he carries around at all times okay okay so just picture that absolutely he lives in an rv sure jim wears gold jewelry oh do you have a pinky ring i bet he does yeah pinky ring? I bet he does. Yeah, he seems like a pinky ring type.

I bet he does. I can't remember specifically, but. Okay. Okay. For the interview, he paired a blazer with his jeans because he knows what's up. And at one time, Jim was quite wealthy. He actually got rich when he was pretty young and he invested in real estate and then in restaurants and he bought resorts and yada yada. And there were articles written about him and everything was so great.

But then the recession hit and he lost everything. Holy shit. One of his friends, I believe, gave him that RV to live in. One of his friends, I believe, gave him that RV to live in. And as I understand it, Jim lives in an RV, which is parked in a resort that he used to own. I might have that wrong. I was only half listening to the AARP podcast. I'll be candid with you.

And I will tell you that the folks at the con did Jim a little dirty because they shot some B-roll of him in his RV. And he was, you know, just drinking a glass of red wine. Sure. And as he lifted that glass to his lips, they showed a shot of the bottom of that glass. And it still had the yellow $1 price tag on the bottom. Oh, my gosh. I think we all know what that means what's it mean brandy he bought it at the dollar tree dollar general right isn't dollar general the one with the yellow probably i should act like i don't know because i have a hot tub you

have a hot tub yeah so obviously i don't know what color wine glasses at the dollar general yeah so if you see me there that's obviously a very hot doppelganger um it should also be mentioned that jim's rv is decorated and part of that decor is a fake plant in the shape of a dog. Amazing. It is covered. Like topiary style? Yeah. Okay. It's covered in twinkle lights and there's a buffalo checked ribbon tied around the dog's neck.

Amazing. It's a Christmas type decoration. Oh. Obviously. I got in the holiday spirit just looking at the thing. You can't have that out year round? Oh, I think you can. I think you can do whatever you want.

And what do we think Jim does? Is this guy's name Jim? Why do you keep asking what these old ass men do for a living? No, do you think he keeps out his dog decoration all year? Well, when you live in an RV, what else are you going to do with that stuff? Well, you've got a little storage area. You rotate out. A little.

Yeah, you rotate out a seasonal decor. Oh, rotate out. A little. Yeah, you rotate out a seasonal decor. Oh, I see. I see what you mean. Yeah. So maybe there's like an Easter egg ribbon. Yeah, there's a topiary

bunny in there. I'd like to think he sticks with the dogs. Yeah, I bet you're right. Yeah. Anyway. Patty, I'm sorry. Brandy just burped.

You're so lucky to get to hear Kristen burp all the time. Patty. Patty, do you ever just count your blessings? Oh, Patty, the best thing ever would be for you to get married to David. Oh, I don't want anybody to get married to David. I to get married to David. Oh, I don't want anybody to get married to David. I am already married to David. What I was saying was that it's wonderful being married

to David. Anyway, one day in July of 2017, Jim was sitting around minding his business when he got a phone call. It was from some woman named Desiree. Desiree told him that they'd met before at the resort. Jim couldn't remember meeting her, but, you know, they talked for a while and Desiree seemed sweet.

She flattered him and she sent him a picture of herself and she was cute. flattered him and she sent him a picture of herself and she was cute. One thing led to another and Jim said, well, you're only a one hour plane ride away from me. Why don't you come spend a few days with me? And Desiree agreed. What's wrong, Brandy? Is she going to stay in his RV with him? Well, he doesn't have two RVs, I'll tell you that. in his RV with him? Well, he doesn't have two RVs, I'll tell you that. But a funny thing happened. On the day that Desiree was supposed to fly out,

Jim received a text from her. She was homeless. No. No, no, no. She had extra cancer. No. Jim, bad news. I got buckets of cancer here just too much it was kind of a weird text um and it was something to the effect of like hey sis I know you made a lot of money on that last investment you did with me so I wanted to

give you a heads up about another investment opportunity. Let me know if you're interested. Okay. Love you. So she's pretending to oops all berries, text him erroneously. A few minutes later, Desiree texted Jim and was like, oh my god, I'm so embarrassed. Oh my god, I didn't even mean to send that to you. Oh, as evidenced

by my use of the word sis, that was meant for my sister. Please disregard. And Jim was like, okay. A while later, he picked Desiree up from the airport and he was quite pleased. She looked just like her picture.

She was dressed nicely. Classy, as he put it. Just the right appearance for like a sales pitch. He took her back to the RV and Desiree mentioned that business opportunity that she'd accidentally texted him about. And she said, you know, I have this business where I do interior decorating for hotels. It's a very real business so please don't ask any extra questions.

And you could be an investor for the low, low price of $100,000. Jim was kind of embarrassed because he didn't have that kind of money. And he was like, a while back, $100,000 would have been nothing to me. But now I'm broke. I'm sorry, I can't be an investor. Desiree was pissed. Very disappointed. Yeah.

So then she kind of changed her tune. She told him some weird sob story about needing $10,000. Oops, more cancer. Yeah. Oops, more homeless. You know, who knows? Yeah. And he said, yeah i i'm so sorry i

can't i can't give you 10 grand either i don't have that kind of money jim was so embarrassed yeah and desiree was mad uh-huh he said her personality totally changed he was very humbled when she stopped calling him sweetie and honey and instead was like, well, I'm going to fly back home tomorrow. Jim felt really bad. So he was like, hey, let me pay for your trip here. What did it cost you to come here? And she was like, $2,000.

And he's like, I mean, he knew that couldn't be true knew that yeah there's no way that's true but he didn't say that because he didn't want to argue and he felt really embarrassed so he went back to his bedroom in the rv and he pulled two grand in cash out of his cash stash how much cash did he have in his cash stash that's none of your business and was he real secretive did he have in his cash stash? That's none of your business. And was he real secretive? Did he make sure that Desiree couldn't see him get his cash stash? I don't think he was secretive enough, I'll be honest with you, Brandi, you know. I'm concerned about that. This was a painful amount of money to hand over, but, you know, he did it.

He gave Desiree the money, and that evening they went out to dinner, and Desiree told him that she'd pay and she did with the money that he'd given her. That night they stayed in the RV and the next morning Jim had to go talk to someone and so Desiree was alone in the RV for a while. Oh no, his cash stash is gone. No, actually what she did was she farted. Directly on his pillow. Well, here's the thing. RVs aren't that big, so he walks in, he knows something's up. And she tried to blame the dog.

And he's like, I know what my dog's farts smell like. Well, no way he left the dog behind. He absolutely did. Oh, all right. Oh, all right. Anyway, when he got done with his meeting, he got back to the RV and Desiree was in his car with the engine running. She had his dog. She was packed and ready to go.

Wow. And he's like, wow, all right. All right, I guess it's time to go. So he took her to the airport. And when they got there, Desiree freaked out a little because she couldn't find her ID. So she had Jim help her look for it. She checked one bag. He checked the other.

They switched. Desiree eventually found her ID. Oh, I was pretty worried about Desiree. Were you? No. I'm starting to think you don't give a shit about Desiree. So that was good. She found her ID.

She went home. But Jim had a weird feeling about the whole thing. Yeah, so he went back to his RV and he checked his cash stash and it was totally gone. Yep, yep. You know, he'd given Desiree two grand, but she'd stolen 13 grand. Holy shit. And that really sucked because aside from his social security, that was all the money he had. Yeah.

And he didn't trust having it in a bank anymore after the recession. Yeah. Yeah. He trusted his sock drawer. Holy shit. He immediately called Desiree and he was like hey okay you took my money and she was stunned she said oh jim i would never he's like come on and she's like well i saw a guy in a blue jacket walking around your RV, you know, so he must have taken it.

Better find that dude in the blue jacket. Uh-huh. Jim knew that Desiree was full of shit. He tried multiple times to get her to give the money back, but of course she didn't. He even was like, would you submit to a polygraph test? She's like, yes, I would. Okay. And so he, like, knew a guy who a polygraph test? She's like, yes, I would. Okay. And so he, like, knew a guy who did polygraph.

It's a whole thing. I know. So he reported this to the police. Good. And when he found out about the case against Desiree, he's like, sure, I'll join. Police eventually tracked Desiree down in Las Vegas and they arrested her. And not a moment too soon, because as it turns out, she and her common law husband slash brother were scamming this new dude named Doug, who was a veteran, because of course. And he had underwear on the

inside of his khakis. But he was never added to the criminal case, so stop asking about him. And Quail Man, too. Why did I say it like that? Quail Man. I pronounce it Quail Man. Yeah, well, you're unique. In November of 2018, I lost my place in this script. And also, Desiree pled not guilty to a ton of shit.

Theft of property, exploitation of an elderly person, and an elderly person. Also, toying with an old man's heart. That's not a thing. Yeah, it's a felony. No, it's not. Well, maybe it should be. At trial, Desiree's defense attorney, Joetta Keene, argued that there was no crime here. She argued that all these people had given Desiree their money willingly. This was all part of love, Brandy. It's all part of dating.

I hate it. There is deception in love and dating. What? That's the real argument? Well, yeah. What else are you going to say? People lie. Yeah, I guess. And it's not a crime when it comes to dating.

Yeah. She told the jury, you may not approve of this lifestyle and you may not approve of it if it's your daddy. But these folks made willing choices. See? Case in point. You're not approving of it. She also reminded the jury that dating is different than normal life. What? She said, this is not a case of a financial advisor who says, give me your money and I'll make it back. This is dating. Wow.

What do you think? I mean, I think it's probably a solid argument. I think it's a great defense. Yeah. I told you, I thought this would be difficult to prosecute. And you hate to be right. No, I love to be right. And you hate to be right.

No, I love to be right. She pointed out that the other law enforcement agencies, as well as Adult Protective Services, had all investigated Desiree and took no action against her. In her opening statement, prosecutor Lori Varnell said, This was theft by deception. This was her business. This was not jilted lovers. Lori said that Desiree had chosen people who would be easy to fool. Elderly people, people who were isolated, people who weren't internet savvy. And the jury was like, what? And then she said, internet savvy. And they said, oh. Why didn't you say that? Internet savvy. And they said, Also, people who were grieving the loss of a spouse, which is not funny.

No, but that's absolutely right. Yeah. She said that Desiree had preyed on six elderly people, dangling romance in front of them. What's wrong? You don't like a dangling anything? What about a dangling romance in front of them. What's wrong? You don't like a dangling anything? What about a dangling participle? And she stole more than $1.6 million from them. Holy shit.

Two of the victims, Doug Wingo and Danny Barnett, died before this trial began, but every other victim in the indictment was able to testify. Wow. Marilyn Ewell, who had been friends with Danny Barnett for 60 years and who was probably the friend who reported Desiree to the police, testified about what she'd seen. She said that Desiree, quote, came over when he was knocked out on pain pills, went through his pockets after she had taken it all, and got his workman's comp check and his social security checks. Oh, my gosh. She said that Danny was, quote, like a child in his mentality, very simple-minded, easily manipulated, and gullible. Danny had always been frugal, but he'd also been extraordinarily kind toward other people, and Desiree had exploited that. She said that after Danny

bought Desiree that house, she didn't see him for 10 months. Wow. Another friend, Tommy Grindell, testified that he never saw Desiree come and visit Danny in his apartment. Tommy said that he was the one who would, you know, make Danny lunch, help him with laundry. Dick testified. Lori testified. I'm sorry. Her name is Lois. Yeah, her name is Lois.

Yes. Anyhow, she didn't change it. She wanted to, but Lori, the prosecutor, was like, look, it's going to be confusing. There's already one Lori here. I've taken the spot. Yes. Lois testified via video from Florida. Prosecution showed the money trail, specifically the one that led right to Desiree's account at the casino, and they rested their case.

And then it was the defense's turn, but they didn't have anything to say. Yeah. They didn't call any witnesses. At one point in the trial, Desiree showed up late to court and she explained that she'd been in the hospital for a panic attack. And also she wanted to fire her defense attorney. Wow. So there was this little private meeting with Desiree and the attorneys and the judge. And when they came out of that meeting, the judge came out in a top hat and shouted, the show must go on. I don't think that's what happened. Well, then the episode of The Con got it wrong because I certainly didn't make that up.

In her closing statement, prosecutor Lori Varnell said, we're here because this defendant is a liar and a horrible person. She lies even when the truth would be better. She said that Desiree chose her victims with intentionality. She said that's not dating. That's targeting. Yes. OK, so this is reminding me of the thing I wanted to say earlier about the military people. She said that part of the logic there could be good benefits.

These are usually folks who have their homes paid off and they're always going to have some amount of money coming in. Yep. So that was the logic for going for veterans. Yeah. Yes. Yep. So that was the logic for going for veterans. Yeah. Here's the other thing. Veterans often have like stickers on their car or little hats. Yep. Easy to spot. Makes total sense. Usually fedoras.

No. But in her closing statement, defense attorney Joetta Keene said, What's going on here, and just being real, is what goes on all the time. She's illiterate. She's got a bunch of kids, and she's got a man that beats on her. She figured out a way to make some money. She's a sugar baby, and she's got some sugar daddies and a sugar mama, and it really is that simple. It's a great argument. I agree that simple. It's a great argument.

I agree. I think it's a great argument. The jury didn't think so. They found Desiree guilty of everything. I'm glad they did. I think the defense did a good job, though. In the sentencing phase, her defense attorney asked that Desiree be put on probation. And the prosecution was like, don't you dare put her on probation. And the prosecution was like, don't you dare put her on probation.

And the jury was like, don't worry, we won't. Yeah. Okay. What do you think her sentence was? Financial crime, $1.6 million-ish, 10 years. 263 years in prison. What? Right.

Okay. Now, her sentences will be served concurrently. Right. So she's getting 85 years in prison. Holy shit. I was blown away by that. Holy shit. Okay. Now, what she did was really bad.

Yeah, but that's nuts. I mean, seriously, murderers. Yeah, get less time than that. I tell you what. This country does not fuck around with financial crimes. Well, it's funny because I feel like it's really hard to actually get caught for the financial stuff. But when they catch you, they catch you. Desiree appealed her sentence.

Her new attorney, Blake Burns, argued she didn't hold a gun to anybody's head. They didn't lose the capacity to say no to her, even though her stories weren't true. I don't want to give you money was a response that none of them seemed to come up with. But the appeal didn't work. Wow. Wow. As far as the prosecution was concerned, this case wasn't over. Desiree's common-law husband, who turns out was not her brother, had been named as a co-conspirator in this case. as a co-conspirator in this case. After Desiree's trial, the DA's office was pretty worried that Paul would take the fuck off.

So they were like, you know, people, people, people, could we get an order to put a GPS monitor on him? And a judge was like, yep, absolutely. And on the day that Paul was supposed to show up,

he was nowhere to be found. Yeah. It took police a while to catch him. When they did catch him, he was going by a new name because Paul never suited him. Was he going by Chris? Oh, I forgot to write down his new fake name. I think it was John or something. Something more fitting, you know?

Yeah. You're not trying to go for spice. You're trying to go with what fits. They'd actually arrested him because he was a suspect in three armed robberies. Wow. It's important to stay busy. Yeah. As you know. They'd actually arrested him because he was a suspect in three armed robberies. Wow. It's important to stay busy. Yeah.

As you know. When you retire, you want to keep working. Paul had evidently paid enough attention to Desiree's trial to know that he wasn't interested in the same fate. So he just pled guilty in November of 2021. And he was sentenced to 125 years. Fuck! Served concurrently 85. Holy shit.

Is that not? I mean, who? That is nuts. Dick Olmsted did an interview with the New York Times after Paul's sentencing. He said that as a result of what Desiree and Paul did to him, he hasn't been able to do the things he'd hoped to do in retirement, like attend the insurrection.

Just kidding. He said he wanted to fix up his house and buy an airplane. Buy an airplane? Yes. That's probably for the best, right? Yeah. Also, how expensive are airplanes? I don't have a clue. You haven't looked into them?

I have not. I have because I have a hot tub. You wanted to see about getting an airplane for your hot tub. It deserves it. So I'd like to end with a quote from Dick because I've been a little rude to him. Okay. I have in my notes I've been a little hard on him, but that's not what you should say. When the guy's named Dick.

No. He said, they come into your life. They trample over everything that is sacred in your life. You really feel like a fool. I felt like a real fool. I got emotionally involved with her and emotions override common sense and that is the man that was a long ass story i've been talking forever it was wonderful thank you oh that's nuts 85 85 years. 85 years. Holy hell.

Yeah, I don't like what she did. That seems really excessive. But at the same time, I've got no qualms with a situation where someone wants to kind of be paid to be. Well, yeah, a sugar baby situation. I got no problem with that if both parties are in agreement that that's what's happening there. Yeah. Yeah. But the agreement part is key.

Yes. Critical. Yes. I'm sorry. I simply must tie my hair up. I am sweating. Go right ahead, my dear. You know what I think we ought to do right now?

On ad? Doodaloo. And now we're back from the ad. Doodaloo. Doodaloo. And Brandi's gonna tell a story. Will she take two hours like I did? Who knows?

I don't think so. Okay, shoutouts to an episode of Dateline with our boy Keith Morrison. an episode of Dateline with our boy Keith Morrison and an entry on ChillingCrimes.com .com, yes. Also, this involves child murder, so just heads up.

Alright. Right off the top. Great. Yeah. It was a beautiful summer day in Tacoma, Washington. Why do I feel like the murderer will get less than 85 years? You would be correct. You would absolutely be correct.

Stay tuned. Okay, okay. Anyway, it was a beautiful summer day in Tacoma, Washington, and Jennifer Bastian, or Jenny, as she was known to her friends, had a brand new Schwinn bike she was dying to ride. She had this big bike tour coming up. I looked into that more to figure out, like, what that was. Yeah. I think she was going to be riding her bike through the San Juan Islands. And so she wanted to learn how her new bike handled and make sure that she had enough stamina for that ride. How old was she?

She's 13. Okay. Okay. So on Monday, August 4th, 1986, Jenny called her dad and asked him if she could ride her bike up to Point Defiance Park and ride the five mile drive loop. Her dad told her yes, but that she needed to be home by 630. So Jenny left a little note on the table for her mom, and then she headed out for her ride. It was about 2.30 in the afternoon.

A bunch of people saw Jenny at the park that day. A number of people saw her take a little break, drink some water, and she seemed fine. Like nobody saw anything happen. It seems that the last person remembered seeing her somewhere around 6 p.m., somewhere on that loop. But Jenny never made it home that night. And when it was like 8.30 and she still wasn't home, her parents reported her missing. Yeah. A search of the park took place that night.

Nothing was found that night. The search continued. Hundreds of people came out to help in this search. But there was no sign of Jenny. Weeks went by. A little more than three weeks went by. This is so awful. A little girl just wants to get some exercise wants to

go ride her new bike yeah god damn yeah and then on august 28th so a little more than three weeks after she'd been missing jenny's body was found by a jogger she was in a wooded area close to where she'd last been seen that jogger was running in the area and happened to like wander off the trail because he smelled an odor and it was very well known in the area that jenny had been missing and her body was found not far off the five mile drive that she'd been riding and it was hidden in some bushes her bicycle was found nearby yeah patty bastion jenny's mom was at home painting her dining room when detectives came to her house to tell her that jenny's body had been found so she's interviewed on this episode of dateline

and she talked about how for like three weeks she just sat and did nothing because she just like didn't know what to do. Well, it's so funny when you said painting her dining room, my initial thought was like, that's kind of weird. But then I thought, no, it would be something to occupy your mind. One hundred percent. She said she just sat in her backyard for hours a day and then was like, I have to do something. I can't just sit here like this. And so, yeah, she had decided like that day to start a project, start painting her dining room. And literally she was in the middle of painting when the detectives came in.

They took the paint roller from her and had her sit down and they told her that they had found Jenny's body. Still to this day, Patty has trouble comprehending what was done to her daughter. She said this to Keith Morrison. I have my fairy tale, I think, and I'll just live with it. She was riding her bike. The monster came out of the woods and grabbed her and killed her. More than that, I can't wrap my brain around. Yeah. Yeah. An autopsy was performed and it was confirmed that Jenny had been sexually assaulted and then strangled to death. Her cause of death was determined to be asphyxia.

So obviously a homicide investigation began, but the police believed that Jenny wasn't the killer's first victim. Five months earlier, another girl, 12 year old Michelle Welch, also went missing under similar circumstances. Both girls were around the same age. One was 12, one was 13. They both had blonde hair and blue eyes and they'd both been riding their bikes when they went missing. On the same trail or in the same area? I'm going to tell you in the next sentence. Well, I don't have that kind of time.

Michelle was reported missing on March 26th, 1986. She was last seen at Puget Park in Tacoma, Washington, which is about three or four miles from Point Defiance Park, where Jenny had been last seen. What about Point Defiance? Shut up. So, Michelle had been at the park that day with her two younger sisters, Angela and Nicole. Like Jenny, she had had her bicycle with her that day. One of her sisters had a bicycle as well. And the other one had a skateboard.

And Michelle had, like, pulled her along, like, with a rope, like, until they got to the park. So, the three girls had gotten permission that day from their mother, Barbara Leonard, to ride to the park before their piano lessons. Their piano lessons were like right by the park. And their mom was like, yeah, OK, you can go to the park for a little bit before your piano lessons. Three of them. I mean, yes, she had meant that they could go to the park like 30 minutes before their piano lessons. And they had maybe stretched that permission a bit. They'd gone like two and a half hours before their piano lessons. Man, the 80s.

Yeah. Michelle and her sisters had arrived at the park before lunchtime, but they quickly realized that they had forgotten their lunches at home. So Michelle offered to ride her bike home, get them, and let her sisters stay and play. So she'd done that. And when she arrived back at the park, lunches in hand, her sisters were nowhere to be found. So they had actually gone to a nearby business to use the restroom. There was no bathroom facility at this park.

But Michelle wasn't aware of that, obviously. So Michelle sat the lunches on like a picnic table. She chained up her bike and then she took off looking for her sisters. Her sisters returned to the park somewhere around 1.15 that afternoon from using the bathroom nearby. And they glanced around for Michelle, didn't see her. And so they went and played. There was like this cave area by a bridge they saw her bike right they actually didn't notice her bike at first okay it wasn't like for another 30 minutes or so that they then realized that michelle's bike was there and that she was not they looked around for her didn't see her they assumed to me she had gone

off looking for them but they had this thing that they called a family call, which was like this loud echoey noise that they would make to each other whenever they needed to locate each other in public. Yeah. So Angela and Nicole called for Michelle using this family call. That's kind of cool. I know. I think it's really cool. But Michelle never appeared. She didn't return the call. That's kind of cool. I know. I think it's really cool. But Michelle never appeared.

She didn't return the call. And Nicole said that when Michelle failed to return the call, that's when she knew that something was wrong. Something had happened to her. They, at some point, I think, called their parents, called, you know, somebody, let them know that Michelle was not at the park. And she was reported missing about 3 p.m. that day. By 3.10, police were at the park searching it. Some kid that was there that knew Michelle and her sisters from school said that he had noticed a man under a bridge at the park and he thought that he'd noticed that man looking at the girls kind of watching them. But that man was never identified.

He gave, you know, some kind of description. But yeah. A search went in well into the night. And then at 1130 that night night Michelle's body was found. She was in this kind of fire pit area like it was like a

makeshift fire pit that had been made by people in like a wooded area. Yeah. It was like a quarter mile from where the play area had been at the park.

She'd been sexually assaulted, beaten, and her throat was cut. God. An autopsy, again, was obviously done and it determined that Michelle had died from blunt force trauma to the head. They collected swabs from her because she'd been sexually assaulted, knowing that, you know, there was nothing they could do with it at this point. But, you know, DNA was kind of like in the works. And so they collected them and hoped at some point that it would do something for them. Yeah. So this had happened five months before Jenny Bastion went missing. And so when Jenny was found murdered in a situation that was so similar to Michelle's, they were like, OK, we've got two victims of the same killer here.

And the police made that known to the public. They believed that the same killer was responsible for both Michelle and Jenny's deaths. same killer was responsible for both Michelle and Jenny's deaths. And thousands of tips came in and investigators looked into each and every one of them. But the case went cold. Years went by. And then a woman named Lindsay Wade, who had started as a Tacoma police officer, worked her way up to detective. And then she was one of the first detectives put on Tacoma's cold case department. So she was given all of these cases to look over. I mean, I think she had a couple of partners as well, but it's a really small department. Yeah. And Lindsay Wade zeroed in on Jenny and Michelle's cases immediately because she had been 11 years old when the girls had been murdered.

She remembered it vividly. She remembered not being allowed to ride her bike for a long time after it happened. And then even when she was allowed to ride her bike again, always being nervous, always watching her surroundings. This case was the reason she had become a police officer. And so she gets put on this cold case department and she starts looking into this case. She went to the scenes where they had happened and she just began immersing herself in the case file of this. I mean, it was just binder on top of binder filled with tips and

names and leads that police officers had followed up on. And she put together a list of just people involved in the original investigation, potential suspects, witnesses, tipsters. She put together a list of 2300 names. Oh, my God. Yeah. She said her theory at the time when she first started working on this case was that this person who did this had to have been a convicted sex offender, most likely. Yeah. Or had had a previous charge for murder. And that somehow. Yeah, you don't just jump to this. Right. Exactly. Hopefully they would have been caught for something before. Right. But it was, I mean, daunting work to narrow down. I mean, put together this list of 2300 names and then go to work narrowing that down to potential suspects.

I'd do great. Would you? No. So over the years, obviously, this case had been looked at several times. And so Detective Wade is looking into those previous things as well. And in 2006, a DNA profile was actually developed from the swabs that had been taken from Michelle. Oh, holy shit. OK.

But it had been entered into the national database and there were no matches. Yeah. Just give it a few years. Well, so, yeah. She's like, OK, we've got this DNA profile. But they had never done any DNA testing on Jennifer's case because when Jenny's body was found, she was dressed in a swimsuit and her swimsuit bottoms had been pulled down. And so they had never tested those swimsuit bottoms, assuming that they had been pulled down prior to the sexual assault.

Right. And so Detective Wade was like, what if we're wrong about that? What if there's DNA on her swimsuit? And so she sent it off for DNA testing. And they found DNA on her swimsuit bottoms. They found semen. So now they have another DNA sample. And so they're like, okay, let's make sure that these match. We've got a DNA sample from each case. Let's make sure this theory that these are the same culprit is correct.

And so Detective Wade sends these DNA samples off and they did not match. Gross! So there's two of these? Oh! Yep. These cases were not connected.

They were looking for two separate murderers. Child rapist and murderers. Yeah. Oh, God. Operating in the same time period in a tiny radius. They were just mind blown by this. For 30 years, this case had been investigated as one case, two victims.

And it turns out that they were not. So that changed everything. They separated the cases. They didn't need to find someone who they could connect to both cases. And so they went back to those lists, about 2,300 people, and now they've got to look at them from two different case perspectives. Also, they entered the new DNA sample from Jenny's swimsuit into the national database, and it also did not come back with a match. But time's going by, and DNA technology is improving all of the time. And so it's like 2016 at this point.

And Lindsay Wade wanted to talk to a forensic genealogy expert. Did she want to burp? She didn't. But she did anyway. She's not very professional. So this time was kind of when they're first – Are you just ignoring me? I'm ignoring you.

Yes, I'm not going to talk about the alleged burp on the podcast. It's so rare that you do these things, so I have to point them out. It's true. It's true. I'm much more of a lady than you are. Genetic genealogy was kind of just coming into the picture of this time when they talk about, we have a DNA sample, nobody's in the system for it, but can we run it on these genealogy websites and see if, you know, we can find a family link. This was still a little

bit too early for that, but what they were able to do were two different things. So initially, they analyzed those two DNA samples through this genetic genealogy website, and they got a list of possible last names that could be connected to those DNA samples. Still a big list of names, but these are possible familial links. Additionally, Parabon NanoLabs use those two DNA samples. Are you familiar with Parabon NanoLabs? Love them. What? I just thought it was funny that you named the specific lab.

I think this is actually a really cool thing that they did. What did they do? So they took those DNA samples and they entered it into their proprietary computer system. And they made sketches of what the suspects were likely to look like based on their DNA. That's really cool. Is it accurate? I have no idea. But it sounds cool.

Well, probably not because we've never heard of that. Exactly. I think it sounds very cool. Is it accurate? I have no idea, but it sounds cool. Well, probably not because we've never heard of that. Exactly. I think it sounds very cool. I don't think it was helpful in this case, but they did release those sketches to the public. Well, you can tell me. Did the sketches look like the person they eventually found? I never saw the sketches. I don't know the answer to that. Is it because you read a transcript of Dateline? No, actually, I listened to the episode of Dateline. God damn it.

Wow. All right. It actually didn't even occur to me until this moment that they did probably show those sketches on the Dateline episode. They absolutely did. So they've got these two things. They've got these sketches of what they maybe look like based on their DNA. They do release that to the public and hope to receive a tip back, but no tips. I mean, there were some tips that came in, but none of them cracked the case.

Yeah, because none of the public actually looked at the images. Probably. They probably listened to the episode, too. I'd like to listen to the sketch. I'd like to listen to the sketch. But then Detective Wade decided to go back to her list of 2300 people involved in this case and then cross check that against the list of possible last names. And she put together what she called a higher probability suspect list. So these are people who maybe their names have been brought forward by the genealogy stuff or maybe they were involved some way in the investigation that seemed kind of weird.

One person that she specifically put on this list was this jogger who had called the police after this guy who'd called in a tip after Michelle had been murdered. He said that he'd seen a man running at Point Defiance Park. So not the park that Michelle was at, the park nearby where Jenny was. And that he thought that runner matched the description that the 13-year-old boy had given to police. What was the description? I don't know the answer to that either. Goddamn. Vague, vague male description. Okay.

He was running. He was. One foot in front of the other. He was running. And well, this guy who called in, he's like, I'm also a runner, so I see other runners and I think I've seen that runner before running. You know, you get it as a runner. I have also seen other runners running and I say to them, I am a runner myself, so I know what you're up to right

now, bub. Don't try anything. This higher probability of suspect list narrowed it down to about 160 men. Okay. And the FBI went to work tracking down those 160 men to try and get DNA samples from them. Wow. Voluntarily, which is, you know, quite a task. Eventually, they got down on the list to a man named Robert Washburn. Eventually, they got down on the list to a man named Robert Washburn. This, okay, so this is the guy who called in the tip about the jogger who was jogging, and he's a jogger, too, so he recognizes joggers. And interestingly, he had never really been a suspect. He was in the case file because he was a tipster.

But Washburn was one of the names that had come back from the genealogy website. And so that had stuck out to Detective Wade. And so she put his name on the list. And they tracked him down to Eureka, Illinois. It was 2017. He was living there. He had been living there for like the last 13 years. He had a daughter that he was the caregiver of. She had some form of disability.

I'm not sure what. But his full-time job was being her caretaker. Gotcha. And they knocked on his door, asked him to give a sample. And he said, sure, no problem. Gave it right up. up around this same time detective wade was like i'm i've done all i can do here it's time for me to move on into a different direction she retired from the tacoma washington police department and started working for i believe the prosecutor's shop no the prosecutor's office being an investigator

for the prosecutor's office got you but she sent off this last batch of DNA samples right before she retired. Among those was the DNA sample for Robert Washburn. Holy shit. And when the samples came back, he was a match. Oh, my God. He was a match. Oh, my God. He was arrested and charged with first degree murder and extradited back to Washington. At the time that Jenny Bastian had been murdered, he was 28 years old.

He lived nine blocks from her. Yeah. He worked for Boeing as a mechanic. He had married four years after Jennifer had been murdered. The police spoke to his ex-wife. She said that she was shocked to find out that he was responsible for Jenny's murder. I can't imagine what it's like for these spouses. She said that he was always gentle. Huh. They had gotten divorced sometime in the mid-1990s. He'd become

the caregiver for their child. She was shocked by this. Neighbors were shocked by it as well. They said he was a quiet guy who kept to himself and spent a lot of time outdoors well that's ominous yeah his name had always been in the investigation but not as a suspect what was he in there as he was a tipster they did question him after.

But not as a suspect. No, listen. Okay. He was a tipster in Michelle's case. Uh-huh. Five months before Jenny disappeared. And so then when Jenny was murdered, they did go back and talk to him. But he said he didn't know anything about it. He's like, actually, I didn't do that one.

Yeah. No, he did. Yeah, I know yeah yeah they have no idea why he inserted himself in that first investigation it seems really odd he's never explained that jenny's family says like that's their biggest question to this day. Like, were you inserting yourself into that investigation because you had this plan in your mind? What's your theory? I, okay, my theory I don't think is correct, but to me, it is super weird to me. It makes me wonder if there's a possibility that these two separate murderers were working together or knew each other or something like that. Yeah. See, I guess my initial thought is like, he's super into this. He wants to be a part of

it. I mean, you don't just wake up one day. No, absolutely. Something like this. Yeah. Find out someone's done this and you want to know everything about it. Yeah. You want to be a part of it. You want to know that makes total sense. But just before the trial begins, he takes a deal and pleads guilty. Part of the deal is that he has to confess to what he did. Okay. And he does it in the – Oh, God. I mean, just – Douchiest way possible. Cool.

Yep. I grabbed her. I took her into the woods. I strangled her. Oh. Okay. That's – That's what he says? That's what he says. I'm sorry, but I know that means. Oh. Okay. That's what he says? That's what he says.

I'm sorry, but I know that means nothing to the family. Okay. That's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. What did you think it was going to be? Well, do you remember BTK killer? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he like...

Relived every moment. I was afraid that's where this was going. Just unbelievable detail. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He like relived every moment. I was afraid that just unbelievable detail. Yeah. Yeah. He says, I took her into the woods. I strangled her till she died. I'm deeply sorry for what I did. That's his entire statement.

And he didn't even deliver it himself. The judge read it for the court. Jenny's mother, Patty, she spoke in court. Jenny's mother, Patty, she spoke in court. She said, for us, normalcy disappeared on the 4th of August, the day you decided would be a good day to savagely murder our 13-year-old girl. Yeah. Jennifer's sister, Teresa Bastian, said that her sister's death had this huge impact on her life, obviously. She told the court that she hadn't ever even taught her own daughter to ride a bike because it was too scary to her. Wow. Yeah.

And she told Robert Washburn, you made me an only child. As part of his plea deal, he was sentenced to 26 and a half years in prison and he must serve 20 before he is eligible for parole. That is not enough. Can we get some of Desiree's years? Seriously, it's not enough. That has to be so strange for the family to go that long not knowing. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you've got.

Yeah. I mean, DNA. Mm hmm. Yeah. not knowing yeah and then all of a sudden you've got yeah i mean dna yeah oh so when they got the dna match so lindsey wade had worked on this case for so long that she'd become very close with the families sure and so when they got the match on the dna they called lindsey and asked her if she wanted to be the one to inform. That's nice. Yeah. To inform Patty. And she did.

She said she went to her house and just like the minute she saw her, she just started crying. She could barely get the words out. And then she said, we got him. Oh, my God. Yeah. But this still left Michelle Welch's murder unsolved. In 2015, they put together, you know, the DNA stuff where they got the sketch, and then they did the list of familial names, whatever.

All kinds of stuff was done, but that didn't lead anywhere in this particular case. And then in 2018, the detectives in the case gave approval to Parabon Nanolabs, And then in 2018, the detectives in the case gave approval to Parabon Nanolabs, the company that you're such a fan of, to upload that DNA from Michelle's killer to their genealogy website to see if there was any kind of match there. So a family tree was created based on this DNA and it linked it to two potential suspects. There were these two brothers who both lived in Tacoma at the time of Michelle's murder. And so police tracked them both down and they surreptitiously obtained their DNA. So one of the brothers was 66-year-old Gary Hartman. He went to a restaurant. They followed him to this restaurant. I knew. When you said

I knew. Was it the straw? No, it was his napkin. Oh, okay. So they watched him eat. They watched him wipe his mouth off with this napkin several times. And then after he left, they went

up and grabbed that napkin. How'd you like that job, Brandy? I would hate it. I mean, I'd have gloves on, I guess. You're like, you know what? I'm going to let this killer go. No. I just, I can't.

I would put my gloves on. I'd bag it on up. What if he's an at-the-table nose blower? Oh, God, he probably was. Well, that's great for a detective. Yeah, exactly. Terrible for everyone else in the restaurant. Dad, are you listening? nose blower oh god he probably was well that's great for a detective yeah exactly terrible for everyone else yes restaurant dad yeah listening it's never okay to blow your nose at the table just putting it out there never okay um everyone who loves my dad oh dp dp so yeah he's a table

nose he's an at the table nose blower and if try to shame him, it won't work because he'll be like, well, I just had to. Yeah. Okay. So they watch him eat. They go. They take his napkin. They send it off to the lab. And the DNA they pulled from the napkin was a match to the DNA found on Michelle Welch.

Found on Michelle Welch. Gary was 34 years old at the time of Michelle's murder, and he lived about a mile away from the park. Gary was arrested. He was charged with first degree murder and first degree rape. At the time of his arrest, Gary was a registered nurse in Washington state. He was working as a community nurse specialist at Western State Hospital. He had no criminal record and was married. Access to a lot of vulnerable people. How could that go wrong? I read this kind of long winded statement from his defense attorney after his arrest about how, you know, this is a he's a quality member of society. He's been a nurse for all these years.

Everybody should assume, you know, presume innocence until proven guilty. They have his DNA on a raped and murdered 12 year old girl. Yeah. OK, I've got a question that you may not know. Yeah to was he a runner at the time that i don't i don't have any chance that okay yeah i don't have the answer to that i don't know you would know if you were a runner because runners runners no runners that's right joggers yeah go oh i don't know about that as There's a runner. That's right. Gary opted for a bench trial. Did he really? He did.

And I know nothing about it other than in March of 2022, Judge Stanley Rumbaugh. Oh, wow. I know. I really like it. I do, too. Yep. Found Gary guilty of the rape and murder of Michelle Welch. Not shocking at all.

They have his DNA. Before sentencing, Michelle's mother and sisters spoke. Barbara Leonard, Michelle's mother, said, I say lock him up and throw away the key. Now he will pay the price. However, it won't bring her back, but justice will have been served. I just pray that he can find repentance and forgiveness with God. Michelle's sister, Nicole, spoke. She said, I'm thankful to say that through God's strength that I choose to forgive Gary Hartman, because when I do not, it brings death to my life in one way or another.

Both those statements were really good. Yeah. I don't know that I would have as nice of a statement to say. I do think that Barbara and her daughters are very religious. So I think that is a big part of it for them. What part do you kind of take issue with? I don't take issue with it. I think it's wonderful to say like, you know, only you can search for forgiveness.

You know, I have to forgive for me. I think that's. See, I don't know. I think I like it because I agree so much with it that like. Yeah. I can't hold on to this bitterness. Right. I know my loved one wouldn't want me to.

So you better beg for fucking forgiveness, you fucker. Yeah, absolutely. Which is what they said. Not exactly, but. You must have missed that part of the dateline. It's the part where they had the sketches. Yeah. And Michelle's other sister, Angela, said, I ask that you rely on God because he is the only one that can forgive and give you rest. Gary Hartman also spoke before his sentencing. He said while he was sobbing, he said, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. God knows I'm so sorry. That doesn't help. I'm just sorry.

In prison. Oh, my God. He was 70 years old at the time of sentencing. And the judge acknowledged that this meant that Gary would likely die in prison. He was also in pretty poor health. He couldn't, he could barely walk to the defense table in the courtroom. I don't care. I'm just pointing that out. As I mentioned, Detective Lindsay Wade had retired before these cases were officially solved,

but she had spent so many years working on this case and she was hugely instrumental in it being solved. Yeah. And she had become very close to the families during this. And so she advocated for the passage of a bill in Washington state expanding DNA collection and ensuring that that data gets into the national registry right away. And that bill has been signed into law and it is called Jennifer and Michelle's law. And that is the story of what is actually two cold cases. You thought you could sneak in a twofer, you i did i did you did it well thank you gosh that that is disturbing and so holy shit i can't believe there were two of these guys i do actually think your take is exactly what happened he had had i think that the tipster yeah this is

his thing it's his thing and so he sees it play out. What could be more exciting happens right in his backyard. Absolutely. And so he's inspired. It is wild to me that neither of these men have any other criminal background. I don't necessarily mean that. Yeah, no, I know. I know what you mean.

But, yeah. Well, no, that's the thing about so many sex crimes is you usually don't get caught. Correct. Yeah. Which is why that penguin's still on the loose. Okay. Brandy, I think it's time for another ad. It is time for an ad.

Doodaloo. And we're back from the ad. Doodaloo. Brandy, you really brought me down. Why is your doodaloo down? Oh, my story. What do you mean? My terrible story.

I know. I'm so sorry. You told me about two child rapes and murders. And you're like, what happened to your mood? I'm sorry. Seems to have dropped a bit ever since I mentioned dead children. Yeah. That is awful.

Awful. It's awful. Yeah. You know what? We need to take questions from the Discord. Let's do it. Brandy, what's the situation with this Discord? To get in the Discord, all you have to do is join our Patreon, which we have yet to

plug this episode. Oh, shit. We didn't plug. what the hell's wrong with us my gosh was your butt already plugged before we came in here that's my business but i will hand you this remote oh god anyway if you're listening to this and you're like my god i have to have more of it of Of course you are. Who wouldn't be? Yeah. And all you have to do is go to our Patreon and sign up at the $5 level of higher or higher. Of higher. Of higher or higher. Bring me a higher Patreon. Anyway, we've got bonus episodes on there. So many bonus episodes.

46 bonus episodes? People say we've got too many. Yeah, people are complaining. Maybe we'll delete a few. No, let's not do that. No, we too many. Yeah, people are complaining. Maybe we'll delete a few. No, let's not do that. No, we won't. No, we won't. Also, you get into the Discord.

At the higher levels, you get stickers. You get a card with our little autographs on it. You get Zoom calls every month. And if you're a big spender, the Bob Moss level. That's the $10 level. You can get ad-free episodes. And you can get them. A day early. That's right.

Plus 10% off merch. Also, fun fact. Our patrons always get the first heads up on merch. And the head up. And the toe up. And the glow up. That's what they get. Yeah.

So you're missing out, my friend, if you're not in there. Oh, Stacy Renee C wants to know, what old person things do you do? I personally make the most absurd sounds when I get off the couch. I also call everyone baby girl. I also make absurd sounds when I get off the couch. Or climb the stairs. That's my other thing. Could you do some of the sounds for us? Is it a groan? And then it's always followed up with

I just shit on myself. My thing is I'm obsessed with heating pads now. Gotta have a heating pad on the lower back. Absolutely. My, oh my. Yeah.

I think I do a lot of old person things. I absolutely do as well. Take a lot of Tums. Do you really? Everything gives me heartburn anymore. Ever since I had a child. It's fine. I'm fine with it.

It's cool. Good trade. Yeah. Ooh. Doppenditz wants to know, soap on the right or left side of the sink? Right. Mine's on the left. Wow.

Wow. How does it feel to be wrong? Don't you think it's just different because we're... No, I don't. I think there's a right and there's a wrong. No, I don't. I think there's a right and there's a wrong. I see Fat Legs wants to know, how do you deal with horrible coworkers?

Picture someone who never grew out of the terrible twos and throws a tantrum every time they don't get what they want. I've got a tip for you. What's your tip? If it's a tantrum thrower and it's a man, just be like, gosh, I'm so sorry you're getting so emotional over this. Oh! Passive aggressive tip. Boom. Oh, I love that. That'll work.

Well, I'm not emotional. Emotions? I don't have emotions. I'm either happy or angry. And when I'm angry, I'm hurt as a rock. What tips do you have, Brandi? I don't have any tips because I just put up with it. You are the angry one.

No. I'm just non-confrontational. So I also can get along with almost anybody. All right. Everyone, she's looking off into the distance. I also can get along with almost anybody. All right. Yeah. Everyone, she's looking off into the distance. Well, I think I probably, I mean, it's not a great answer. I would just, if it were me in that situation, I know that I would handle it just by learning how to deal with their bullshit, which is not the right answer.

Because you shouldn't have to put up with that shit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, much like the left side of the sink for so you delivered the wrong answer. Oh, my gosh. Stakeback Outhouse says. Sorry, that's the best name. Not a question, but I was listening to an old episode yesterday and got an ad for Fireball and thought Brandy would want to know. I do want to know and I don't approve.

Listen, just because you have no self-control around Fireball doesn't mean the rest of us have to be punished, Brandy. Oh, B asks, Brandy, my soon-to-be sister-in-law, asked me to do her hair and makeup for her wedding. But it's mid-August. So do you have any tips to help me make everything stay in place for a long, humid day? Yes. Aquanet. No. Primers are your friend, both in makeup and hair.

You want an anti-humidity spray for the hair. I like the Shield from Amika. They may have rebranded it and call it something else now, but it is a anti-humidity spray that is heat activated. So you spray it on the hair before you heat style it. And then once you heat style it, it creates this protective casing around the hair so that humidity doesn't affect it as much. So wonderful. Also a nice stronghold hairspray that is also lightweight because you don't want it to weigh the hair down. Again, my favorite is Amika Headstrong, but, you know, do what feels good to you.

Face primer, also super important. I just started using the Milk Hydro Grip. Fucking love it. It's hydrating, makes the makeup go on so smooth on your face because my little nosy area gets really dry and I hate how makeup doesn't like, it just like sits on top. I don't like it. And so this has helped with that so much. And then also a setting spray.

I currently am using the Makeup Forever 24-hour setting spray. It smells so good and I really like it. Everyone, she's miming spraying her face right now. Yeah. As if she really was currently using it. Anyway, those are my Alivu tips and tricks. That's a Schitt's Creek reference. Oh, I was like, what the hell are you talking about?

Oh, Sarah Loves Stars wants to know, pie and ice cream or cake and ice cream. Does this count as one dessert or two? That's one dessert. Yeah. Brownie with ice cream. this count as one dessert or two that's one dessert yeah brownie with ice cream it's all that's all one dessert yeah it comes as a set oh my god i really have to pee and that almost made me pee and i don't know why but i really i know but there's it was in a way it was okay can we do like it was. Okay, can we do, like, one more question? Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to explode.

Yes. Some bitch told a really long story in this episode. It was wonderful. Oh, my gosh. Robin Noodles wants to know, would you rather never wear pants again or become an always nude? See, I think that's a silly question, don't you? Well, yeah. I mean, the answer is easy.

I would go with the no pants because then I got shorts and skirts and dresses and all kinds of things. I'm not going straight to becoming an always nude. Right. What's the benefit in that? Nothing. I want to know. Absolutely nothing. I think we ought to roll on down to Supreme Court

inductions because I'm about to piss my pants. Let's take it on down to Omeletteville. Don't make me laugh. I'm sorry. If I pee my pants, it is your fault. 256. We are continuing to read your names and your first celebrity

crushes. To get inducted on this podcast, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $7 level or higher. Are you ready? I don't see your- Yes, hurry up. Okay, I'm so sorry.

Raz Mateas. Gordo from Lizzie McGuire. Robin Linat. Jose Conseco. He plays sports. Conseco, but yes. Oh, shit. Chrissy Miller.

Taylor Hansen. Erika Dee. The lead singer from Creed, Scott Stanton. Palms wide open. We have no time. We never have time for that song. Michaela Doherty. JTT.

Ashley Emerson. Mark Paul Gosselaar. Danielle Webb. Alex Rodriguez. Another sports player How dare you say that I was about to brag about my sports knowledge Courtney Von Stein

Jonathan Brandes Velvet Taco Val Kilmer Alec Bazarov Timon from The Lion King That's amazing Tydell Savoy Danica McKellar

Dottie Valk Leaf Garrett Who the hell? He was an 80s teen heartthrob Maybe 70s teen heartthrob Yeah, right, right Chris, he was good friends with Jason Bateman There's no time

When he was a young teen heartthrob, too Thank you Yes, I realize I asked the question Christine E Terry Clark, the country singer Oh, yeah, I liked her, too Not maybe in the same way that you did, Christina. But I do remember her.

She was impactful in my childhood. My God, are you trying to make me pee my pants? I am. Harley Gore. Emma Stone. Tracy Bennett. Luke Perry. Fiona Sharkey.

Daniel Radcliffe. Lori Tremblay. Ricky Schroeder. Nope. Rory Tremblay. God, it says Lori Tremblay. I said Lori, but I pronounced... You said Rory.

I didn't. I'll say it again, but I pronounced her last name wrong. Because I said Trimbley, but it's Trimbley. Lori Trimbley. God damn it. I gotta say it again. You said God damn it while I said her name. I feel like I'm gonna pee my pants.

Lori Trimbley. Ricky Schroeder. Ashley. Jonathan Brandes. God damn again. Okay. Jonathan Johnson Oh I'm sorry

Shit Joanna Johnson Jonathan Cromby Johnniece Justin Timberlake Welcome to the Supreme Court We have no time There's no time

Thank you everyone For all of your support If you want to support us more Find us on social media. You know all the places. Then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five-star review and rating and all of that. And then be sure to join us next week.

I think we ought to, like, hook me up to a bag next time we podcast. Seriously. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. That's right. And now for a note about our... What? Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process.

I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from the Sweetheart Swindler episode of The Con, the AARP podcast, The Perfect Scam, as well as reporting from newspapers.com. podcast, The Perfect Scam, as well as reporting from newspapers.com. I got my info from an episode of Dateline, chillingcrimes.com, oxygen.com, Como News, the News Tribune, and Lawn Crime. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com.

Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.