Let's Go To Court! - 26: The Big Break & the Kidnapping of Bobby Greenlease

Episode Date: July 25, 2018

Eric Abramovitz plays the shit out of the clarinet. He’s amazing. But you know what’s cool about him? He wants to get better. So a few years ago, he applied to the Colburn Conservatory of Music. He set his sights on a huge scholarship and the life-changing chance to study under one of the best clarinet instructors in the world. A few months later, he was rejected. Or was he? Then Brandi wraps up her kidnapping spree… (hmm. Poor choice of words?) with the kidnapping of Bobby Greenlease. This one started in 1953, when a panicked woman ran into a prestigious Kansas City private school and told one of the nuns that her sister’d had a heart attack. She needed to take her nephew out of school. The nun obliged, but there was just one problem. The whole story was bullshit. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “She faked a rejection from her ex-boyfriend’s dream school,” CNN “A clarinetist’s girlfriend didn’t want him to leave. So she crushed his dreams,” NY Times “Abramovitz v. Lee,” CanLII.org In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Greenlease Kidnapping” FBI.gov “The Kidnapping of Bobby Greenlease” The Kansas City Star “Bonnie Emily Heady” murderpedia.org Greenleasefamily.com

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about a talented musician who blew his big break. Or did he?

And I'll be talking about the kidnapping of Bobby Greenlees. I'm excited for another kidnapping. Do you know the kidnapping of Bobby Greenlees? No. Do you know my clarinet story? No. Thank God. Excellent. Okay. I'm so excited. Also, I'm super excited that we're doing this again. Oh my gosh. I like have been so excited for like two days that we were going to record today. So for everyone who doesn't know, we recorded a bunch of episodes ahead of time because I was going to be out of town for the summer, but now I'm back. This bitch is back.

That's what the banner says in my house. All right, you ready? I am. Hit it. Okay. Today, I'm going to talk to you about chasing your dreams. Excellent. Eric. Get ready for some inspiration. Yeah, yeah. This will make you feel all kinds of things. This is now a true crime, court, comedy, inspiration podcast. We're going to end with a quote from Oprah every week.

That would be great. That would be great. That would be so good. We're not going to do that. So, Eric, Abramovitz has been... You didn't practice that, did you? I stumbled over it every time. And I never bothered to get get it right I was just like

I'm sure by the time we record yeah in half an hour I'm also not totally sure that I spelled it right in my notes anyway excellent Eric has been playing the clarinet since he was seven years old he studied under some of Canada's best clarinet teachers. Shout out to our listener, Mark, who suggested that we do some episodes based in Canada. Yes. Mark, this one's for you. Shout out to Mark.

Let's see how crazy these Canadians are. Turns out pretty nuts. So Eric is amazing at the clarinet. He has six first place awards from the Canadian Music Competition, as well as a ton of other awards, including some first place awards from the Montreal Symphony Orchestra. He's been a featured soloist in a bunch of different high-profile Canadian orchestras. In 2013, he was named a CBC Next Artist, which is an award for promising young classical musicians. Wow, he's just killing the woodwinds. He's slaying those woodwinds.

Yada, yada, yada. The guy is talented. The guy's really good at blowing some wood. Is that what they say when you play the clarinet? That's exactly what... So this guy plays the shit out of the clarinet. Yes. And even though he's gotten all these awards and everyone recognizes how talented he is...

Oh my god, why is your microphone so low? No! It's just, it's like, it's low. I have a limp microphone. You're not fit to blow on someone else. I don't know what's happening. Do you think we need to start over? No.

I am plenty loud enough. It's just gradually gotten lower this whole time. So, we're back in business. Okay. So, even though he's gotten all these awards and everyone knows he's super talented why are you smiling at me like that i'm so excited to be here it's like it's christmas morning brandy there's a barbie Barbie Jeep out front for you. I really wanted the Barbie Range Rover.

Of course you did. Did you have a Barbie Jeep growing up? No. Neither did I. I wanted one so bad. I know, I know. It killed me. We had one of those lame, like, Fred Flintstone ones.

You know, the yellow. Oh, yeah, we had one of those. Yeah, yeah. Lame. Yeah. Our parents really cheaped out on us. Clearly. That's why we're so fucked up today.

So, Eric wants to be better. Yeah. Better than... Better than he already is. Yeah, like, he wants to just, like, shoot for the stars. Got it. So, in December of 2013, he decides, you know what? I'm going to apply to study at the Colburn Conservatory of Music in L.A.

Excellent. I'm going to finish the last two years of my bachelor's degree there. And it's going to be great because the Colburn Conservatory is an amazing school. They accept like five percent of the people who apply. It's super competitive. And it is home to Yehuda Galad. Oh my God, Yehuda Galad! I don't know who that is.

Yes, you do. We all know who he is. If you know the clarinet, you know this name. He is like the top dog in the clarinet team. I played the clarinet for... What, a year? I think half a year. No, it was a whole year.

It was a whole year. I was not very good, and I've never heard of Yehuda Galad. Well. Sounds like that's on him right right clearly that's yahuda's fault so despite what you're saying he is a pretty big deal uh he's the music director for colburn and one of the best clarinet instructors in the world. Eric really wanted to study under this guy. But it was super competitive. Basically, every talented clarinetist from all over the world wants to study under this guy. But Yehuda Galad only accepts two new clarinet students every year. Eric decided, you know what?

I'm going to give it a shot. Yeah. He applied in December of 2000. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take, Kristen. Oh, my God. I'm inspired already. I like to think you just have, like, a stack of posters over there. In a minute, will you tell me to hang in there, baby?

That's right. Don't worry. I told you this episode was going to be inspirational. So he applies in December of 2013. And after months and months of pre-screenings, he was invited out to L.A. to do a live audition.

This took place in February of 2014. Eric and his parents fly out to L.A. He auditioned in front of this committee, which included a bunch of faculty members, and of course... You hooted a lot. Yes. After the audition, they said, We'll let you know by April 1st.

Eric was very nervous. He had a lot riding on this. Because not only was this a huge opportunity to study under one of the masters of his craft but if he got this particular scholarship it would cover his tuition room and board meals living i mean some living expenses i mean this was like a huge deal huge yeah i wrote huge in all caps in my notes thank you that really really gets the point across you wouldn't have gotten it if i didn't if i didn't put all that emphasis on huge months go by and sure enough right when they said they'd get in contact with him eric received the Instead, they offered him a position where he could study under Yehuda Gilad at the University of Southern California.

In that deal, they offered him $5,000 a year. Here's the thing. It costs way more than that. Oh, yeah. So tuition at USC is like 50 grand a year. Yeah. $5,000 off isn't shit. No, that's like a shitty ass coupon.

You know what? That is exactly what I was thinking. It's like when you walk into a store and they're like, we'd like to offer you 10% off. Uh, who cares? Yeah, that's not making me buy anything extra. So Eric was devastated. He couldn't afford to pay that kind of money. So he wrote a polite email back,

thanking them for the opportunity and declining the offer. He was really, really upset. He just felt like, oh, God, that was a huge opportunity. I just wasn't good enough. Yeah. But, you know, he kept studying music. He still loved the clarinet he finished his bachelor's degree at mcgill university in canada but after he graduated from mcgill he still had that dream

of studying under yahuda galad so he decided to audition for a two-year graduate certificate in performance at the university of Southern California. He would have preferred to do the master's program there, but it was too expensive. So he just went for the thing that he could afford that would still get him in the room with this master instructor. So Eric goes to the audition. Are you wondering when this is going to take a weird turn? Yes. Okay.

So Eric goes to the audition, and it goes okay, except for this super weird interaction he had with Yehuda Galad. What do you think his friends call him? I have no idea. Yehuda? Huda? Well, who knows if I'm even pronouncing it Okay wait

Let me backtrack I'm for sure Not pronouncing it right Not pronouncing it correctly So who the hell knows What they call him Alright Just curious

Joe I can't imagine Everybody calls him Yehuda Galad Every time they mention his name I feel like it's one of those names You gotta say the whole thing In my notes here I have his full name every single time.

Meanwhile, with Eric, I'm like, Eric. Yes. So, in this super weird interaction, Yehuda is like, why are you here? Two years ago, you auditioned for Colburn and I accepted you and you said no what are you doing back here two years later your face right now what the fuck and Eric's sir, with all due respect. I can assure you I was not accepting. Yes.

He's like, he's like trying to be as polite as possible. This is an audition, but he's like, um, you rejected me. I promise you that's how it went down. I was devastated. But Galad's like, no, no, no, no. how it went down. Yeah. I was devastated. But Galad's like, no. No, no, no. You rejected Colburn. You rejected me.

So they're having, like, this super awkward exchange, where both of them is like, this guy's nuts. Yeah. But Eric's like, okay. This guy clearly rejected me. I remember how devastating it was. I wouldn't have gotten that wrong. So he just tries to brush it off.

He told himself, this guy auditions tons of people every year. He just has me confused because this was two years ago. He doesn't remember the exact. Unless. He's so amazing at the clarinet that he couldn't forget him. Baby, come back. So at any rate, Eric got into the program. But this confusion over him either rejecting Colburn or being rejected by Colburn wasn't going away.

Yeah. His new classmates kept being like, dude, why did you by Colburn wasn't going away. Yeah. His new classmates kept being like, dude, why did you reject Colburn? He's got to call up Colburn and figure out what the fuck's going on here. Mm-hmm. At this point, Eric is like, okay, you guys, I did not reject Colburn. Colburn rejected me.

It sucked, but it happened. Yeah. But finally, he's It sucked, but it happened. Yeah. But finally he's like, okay, all right. I'm going to dig up that old email. I've still got it from two years ago. And I'm going to settle this once and for all. Gets into his email. He finds it.

He forwards it to Yehuda Galad and says, see, I told you, you rejected me. It's not a legit email. Yehuda Galad looks at it. And he's like, oh my god. I never sent this. He looks at the email address. The email address is galadyehuda09 at gmail.com.

OK. He's like, that's not my email. First of all. Come on, Eric. You thought that was the email address that your rejection letter was coming from? No. I'm kind of with you there. For me, the 09 is.

It should be at like at Colburn. Yes. For me, the 09 is what... Or it should be at, like, at Colburn.edu. Yes. Yes. At this point, everyone is shocked. Someone tricked Eric into thinking he didn't get this prestigious scholarship. Yeah. Someone robbed him of a huge opportunity.

Who would do such a thing? Eric starts talking to his friends, and he's like, I don't get it. This is like evil. This is weird. I don't have anybody in my life who would do this to me, but clearly someone did this to me. Yeah, and it has to be somebody who knew well

his friends are like remember that lady you were dating back in 2014 yeah she was kind of sketch so eric was skeptical jennifer lee had been a pretty good girlfriend he thought they started dating in september of 2013 by about a month later she was staying at his apartment almost all the time he had trusted jennifer he let her use his laptop oh my gosh he gave her his passwords she gave him her passwords you're shaking your head oh my god this is crazy yeah so eric said it was scary to even confront that thought given how much I trusted her. But over time, it started to sink in. And I became more and more suspicious that maybe she had done it.

As unpleasant as that was to imagine. So, oh, my gosh. Right. Wow. So Eric's like, okay, maybe she did this to me. How do I figure it out? He gets on his computer. He's got the email address. He sat down and he thought really hard, what were some of her old passwords that she used to use? And he remembered a few of them. So he started testing them out. And eventually he hit that point where the account gives you the email and phone number recovery information. Guess fucking what? His phone number? Or, no, it was her phone number. Yeah.

Yeah. And, of course, he knew it. It was, like, her phone number, her email address. Yep. He was like, oh, my God. She did this. He said, it was a simultaneous stab to the back and the heart. It really was the last person I would have wanted to find out it was. They're already broken up at this point.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Why'd they break up? Do you know? It said unrelated reasons. Mm-hmm. Obviously, because he didn't even know this was going on. why'd they break up? Do you know? It said unrelated reasons. Obviously, because he didn't even fucking know this was going on.

But I think we can guess. Oh my gosh. I mean, she sounds great. She sounds just like, maybe just like a little clingy. Sounds like maybe she doesn't have her own hobbies so eric was hurt he was angry so he said to himself let's go to court pretty soon the whole story unravels turns out out, Colburn emailed Eric on March 27, 2014. They offered him everything he'd ever wanted. Oh my gosh.

Full ride, plenty of money, a chance to study under Yehuda Galad. But Jennifer Lee saw the email before Eric did. And she didn't want him to move out of Canada and away from her. So she did what any loving partner would do. No, stage five clinger. I mean, this is like stage five clinger to the max. Yeah, yeah.

This is like... Stage 10. I don't even know. Exponential. So she responded to that email from Eric's account and said, no, thanks. I have to decline this offer because I will, quote, be elsewhere. Then she deleted that email from Colburn. Like you do.

Yeah. We've all been there. Wow. Then, and once again, we can all relate to this. She created the fake email account. Who hasn't created

a fake email account to crush someone's dreams? Crush the dreams of someone you love the most. Who wants to go to L.A.? The traffic, I hear, is terrible. It's just terrible there. Right now, they're having like a crazy heat wave.

It's like 111 degrees there right now. She did him a favor, right? That's right. They don't have air conditioning in L.A. most places, so just forget that. So using that account, she rejected her boyfriend from Colburn. Oh my gosh. And then she offered him a $5,000 scholarship that she knew he couldn't take. What if he would have tried to accept that?

What was her plan? See, that's, I know it's silly to, like, try to pick the part that you find the grossest in this, because it's all gross, but I think that's the grossest yeah to then turn around and offer him yeah five thousand dollars because my i'm guessing she's thinking okay he's talented enough he has to know that he would get in on some level yes but i at the same time have to use all my knowledge of his financial limitations against him and offer him the exact amount. Yeah. That's terrible.

Mm-hmm. She's a something. I don't even know how to describe her. I mean, that's awful. It is awful. That is just plain awful. Yeah. You know what this story made me wonder how often does stuff like this happen

and no one ever figures it out right because how weird is it i hope not that often i would hope not too but like you think about what are the chances that like two years whatever yeah come face to face with that person again and they would yeah exactly because i think a lot of people would just be like no we're not letting this guy back in. Because remember what he did to us two years ago. But instead they had that super awkward conversation. Like, you rejected us. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. It's crazy. So they broke up a few months later, like I said. She never came clean about what she did, obviously. So this went to court in Canada. And Eric accused Jennifer of all sorts of things, including deceit, invasion of privacy, inflection of mental suffering, loss of educational opportunity, and delay in the exercise of his chosen profession. That's a thing you can... That's what the article said.

It seems to be, like, way too on the nose, but hey, maybe that's a thing. Are you ready for a weird Canada thing that upsets me greatly? Yes. Okay. I'm going to read to you directly from a CNN article. When served with the initial lawsuit, Lee did not respond to Abramovitz's lawyers. Sorry. So she lost by default.

Under Canadian law, a defendant in default is deemed to admit the truth of all allegations of fact made in the plaintiff's claim. admit the truth of all allegations of fact made in the plaintiff's claim so basically jennifer admits guilt without having to show her face which disappoints me greatly because i would love to hear from her i would love to hear more information what i don't think that's specific to canada you don't think so no i think that that happens in civil court a lot. Where they can just not show up? Like I know specifically in divorce court, if the defendant or the person who's being filed against doesn't respond, the filer just gets whatever they want. Are you trying to tell me that I'm not an expert in any way? Because that makes total sense now that you say it like that. I thought it was some weird Canada thing.

I don't think it is. I take it back, Canada. I have no issues. Wow. Yeah. Okay, yeah, that makes total sense. So if you knew that you were going to lose anyway, you might as well not show your face. And then you don't have to.

Yeah. Embarrass yourself any further yeah or see your ex-boyfriend in court whose life you ruined yeah yeah well now i feel silly no i'm sorry no someone would have corrected me better from you. Is it? No. So Jennifer's guilty. And that left one major question for the court to decide. What do you do?

Like, what's the punishment? Yeah. How do you calculate what she owes Eric? Exactly. How do you put what she owes Eric? Exactly. How do you put a price tag on what she did to him? I have no idea. Well, actually, okay, let's think about that for a minute.

$12. Canadian dollars or U.S.? Canadian dollars. Oh, that's rough. Yeah. How do you think you would go about calculating that? Okay, so you'd have to, the value of the program that he missed out on, any living expenses, all of that. Right.

And then the unknown is what career that could have led to and what salary he would have gotten from that. Yeah. Okay. You're, you're exactly, your mind is exactly where the judge's mind eventually got. Okay. So I'm going to tell you this quick thing. So Yehuda Galad was pissed about this and he wanted to help Eric out. So he wrote a letter to the judge just to kind of help the judge understand what exactly this deception had done to Eric. Yeah. Professionally and financially. He wrote, I am very frustrated that a highly talented musician like Eric was the victim of such an unthinkable, immoral act that delayed his progress and advancement as an up and coming young musician and delayed his embarking on a most promising career. Wow.

He talked in his letter about how like just in the short time they've been working together, Eric has improved tremendously. Yeah. And that shows like if he'd gotten that instruction earlier, God. Wow. It's so frustrating. I don't even have the words yeah um so in his decision the judge wrote mr abramovitz lost a unique and prestigious educational opportunity one that would

have advanced his career as a professional clarinetist it is difficult to quantify such a loss so this judge was in a really tough position he had to factor in all the knowns and unknowns kind of like what you were saying yeah he started with the obvious stuff obviously jennifer owed him for the scholarship that she rejected and he decided that jennifer also owed him two years salary at a good symphony orchestra because that's kind of what they figured. Like, yeah, in his letter, he wrote, hey, here's kind of what you can expect to. To earn at a decent symphony, you know, Eric definitely would have gotten into a decent symphony after two years in this program, blah, blah, blah, blah. in symphony after two years in this program blah blah blah but the judge also talked about like there's this thing that you can't quite nail down precisely which is that in the arts you have sometimes a big break yeah how do you put a price tag on that yeah you don't know if he would have

gotten it but you don't not know right exactly well he certainly would have been way more likely to get it had he been able to go through this program and gotten the exposure that that would have led to absolutely yeah how much do you think the judge no idea okay in total the judge found that jennifer owed er $350,000 Canadian dollars. Most of that was for lost scholarship and income, but a portion of it was compensation for having, quote, a dream snatched from him by a person he trusted. Yeah.

Yeah. Where are they now? What do you think about that amount? I think it's on the low side. I think it's fair, but I think it is probably like factored on the low end of the range. I think. I think it's definitely on the low end. I think that he should have penalized her a little more for like what she did.

What? Why'd you say it like that? Oh, I said penalized, didn't I? Instead of penalized. Does that make you uncomfortable, Brandy? Why? What does that make you think of when i say penalized weird but no i think she should have to pay more for what she did yeah because what she did was so

fucked up yeah um but i think when you find out how he's doing now, it'll make you kind of think. Yeah. So we'll start with Jennifer Lee. Yes. I assume she's single. I have no idea how she's doing. There's no criminal aspect to this? No fraud or anything?

I mean, it didn't get into that. I mean, maybe that. I know. I know. That's frustrating. I would think there should be. But as for Eric. What's she. I would think there should be. Yeah. But as for... What's she doing?

She's living in a... I think she's living with her parents. Van down by the river. Okay. I think she's living with her parents. All right. Yeah. Excellent.

But she's also... So she went to study music at McGill, too. So maybe she's trying to... She's jealous. Maybe they'll... You know what? None of the articles I read touched on that. It was all about the girlfriend wanting to be with her boyfriend longer,

but I think that had to have been a factor. Yeah. I wonder if she also played the clarinet. Yeah, she was probably second chair. Mm-hmm. Like, wanting to punch him in the back of the head yeah i'm sorry i'm thinking back to this what do you remember like way back in the day there was this website called failbook.com where people would like post um i'm sorry this is way off track

but they would post like where their friends like either misspelled or did something really dumb on facebook so someone what the hell so someone someone wrote like some this long post that they were like you know i always try to be a good guy i always try to stay calm. And then he had a misspelling and he goes, I try never to blow my composer. Someone wrote, I'm so glad you're not blowing your composer. That's a terrible way to get first chair in band. Oh my God. So now, I mean, that was like years ago that I read that. But now anytime I hear first chair in band, I always think of like, don't blow your composer. So anyway, Eric right now, he's doing just fine. He currently plays for the Nashville Symphony Orchestra. He just got appointed the associate principal clarinetist at the Toronto Symphony Orchestra. He's dating someone new.

They've been together for two years. And he says it's a really healthy relationship. Excellent. He's never given over a email password again. I would hope not. He says, I'd like to think my judgment of character has improved a little bit i hope so too do you and zach know each other's email passwords no i don't think so eric no eric whoa norman knows mom you know what i do know it uh-huh just because it's the same password that he uses for everything. One, two, three, four? Yeah. I love Brandy. I love Brandy. One, two, three, four. Gee, I can't wait till I take her protein shakes

out of the car every Sunday. Yeah, no, I think I've never logged into his email, though. Brandy, this is a safe space. No, he does listen, so. Yeah so yeah no i wouldn't have any if i wanted to see his email i would just ask him and he'd show it to me yeah but what if he had like a prestigious scholarship coming in that you wanted to intercept for him yeah and like oh my god how Oh my God, how great. Delete. Just normal stuff. What if Norman had ripped up your acceptance letter under your writing program? Was it an email or was it a letter?

It was an email because it's 2018. That was so bitchy. Whoa! Does Norman know your email address? My email address? Yes. Does he know your password? I think he does, yeah.

So he didn't delete your acceptance letter. No. So I guess he loves you. I guess so. Sure he's back. We can't be 100% sure. So get this. Eric was asked how he feels about Jennifer, and he said he doesn't harbor any ill feelings toward her.

Fuck that. I would be like, fuck that bitch. Do you think he's lying? Yes, I think he's lying. That makes me feel better. That's what you say out loud. I don't know that i would she trips and rips her face open on a lube rack i know what

did you say on a lube rack this old paula poundstone stand-up special where she's like taking questions from the crowd and like this girl's like yeah my mom tripped at the mechanic shop and ripped her face open on a loop

and Bob Poundstone's like what was your mom doing with her face near a loop rack? Okay that's fucking ridiculous. Yes. But no, that makes me feel a lot better. Well, I saw that special, I think, when I was 12,

and that stuck with me. Made you who you are today. That's right. It really formed me as an individual. So no, I read that. No way he's like, oh, no ill will for yeah that's what you say out loud when you're a nice good person maybe i'm not a nice good person i don't know like you don't think you'd say that in an interview you 100 would say that you're right i would like yeah i just hope they're happy and living their best life. I hope he learned from this. Fuck him.

So he said, despite what happened, I think I landed on my feet and the trajectory one more time. Is that not how you pronounce trajectory? Shut up. That's 2018, Christian!

That was a good line. That was good. Despite what happened, I think I landed on my feet, and the trajectory I'm on is still what I wanted for myself. Just two years or more behind. Yeah. Did he get the money? Well, that's the other thing is like, so she owes him that money, but I'm sure she doesn't have it.

Yeah, exactly. Should have gone on Judge Judy. Judge Judy would have ripped her a new one. Yeah, and Judge Judy pays the judgment, so you for sure get the money. Yeah, but I mean, what's the max? She always gives like five grand. Oh, yeah, it's a small claim, so it can't be. Yeah't be yeah not gonna get 350 but he didn't get 350 anyway i guarantee it sorry eric i should have gone on judge judy like maybe five times yeah exactly for each individual

yeah yeah see there you go you should have consulted us. That case was crazy. Yeah. So that's a fresh one, obviously, as I love to say. Stop saying that. Don't penalize me. Stop! I said it's a fresh one. So, yeah, I saw that. I was like, that is nuts.

Yeah. That poor guy. And then I saw it was a Canada case. And I was like, Mark. Doing it Yeah. That poor guy. And then I saw it was a Canada case. And I was like, Mark. Doing it. Mark's going to love it. Mark is going to love it. Mark, you better love it.

You better tweet us how much you love it. Even if you don't love it. Can you imagine if Mark was like, mm. It wasn't that good. I'm not really into woodwinds. Do you have anything about drummers? I do like a good percussion section. Okay, I am super excited about your kidnapping.

How many more kidnappings? This is it. This is the last kidnapping. Oh, my God. I'm done with kidnappings after this. Season finale of the kidnappings you know what happened is i found the one kidnapping you know you inspired me to do the walter collins case and then each time i would research a case there would be some mention of

another case and it was like me me one more and so this is the final kid you were trapped there were a couple of other kidnappings mentioned in my research of this, and I was like, you know what? You're like, sorry, kids. I'm done. Okay, I am. Wait, is it going to be a gross, horrible one? Okay, that's my answer. Hey, it's local.

I love local. Yes. Someone tweeted at us today. Did, it's local. I love local. Yes. Someone tweeted at us today. Did you see it? I did, yes. I guess I'll cut that since neither one of us can remember the exact thing. Her name's Jessica. Okay.

I believe it's Jessica, and she said, everything I know about Kansas City I've learned on this podcast, and I feel like it's a scary place. Yeah, yeah. learned on this podcast and I feel like it's a scary place yeah yeah according to this podcast terrifying terrifying place really it's a great place to live okay let me set the scene for you please do it's September 28th 1953 oh i love an old one we're at 2920 verona road mission hills kansas hold on i've got to look this up okay hold on hold the phone [phone] verona road mission hills kansas you can't really see the house because it sets back from the street. Damn it, Brandi. You should have cut down a tree. I should have gone there and taken a picture.

Yeah, damn. All you can really see is... There's like a circle drive in front, it looks like. You know, I have always wanted a circle drive. I feel like you know you've made it in life when you've got a circle drive. Yes, when you've got a circle drive. Okay. Oh, no.

I moved it around in Google Maps. I can see. You can see the house? Nice place. So this is the home of Robert and Virginia Greenlees. The residence is a quaint seven-bed 10 bedroom with just over 13,000 square feet. For a second, for like a split second, I was like, does Brandy not know what quaint means?

It's just a cute little cottage. It's a little cozy little house. It's a good starter home. So it was built in 1929 and its current value is estimated at approximately 6.7 million dollars which in kansas city is fucking crazy i know some of you are listening to this in california and you're like oh no big deal yeah no that's crazy fucking expensive so mission hills was at this time in 1953 and still is today the most affluent suburb of the kansas city metro oh hell yeah it's huge homes they're beautiful um it's a really nice

place to drive through i think you just revealed a lot about who we are. It's like, yeah, I've seen it from a car. So in 1953, Robert Greenlees was one of the richest men in Kansas City. He had amassed his fortune, which was estimated to be around $24 million at the time, which in today's money. Oh, my God. Would be approximately $226 million. Damn. Yeah. So he'd amassed his fortune in the auto industry.

Wow. In 1908, he opened the first Cadillac dealership west of the Mississippi, and it was beyond successful. Greenleaf Motor Car Company was located in what is now Union Hill. Oh, my God. At the corner of Gillom and McGee. Oh, my God. This is so lame for our listeners, but I might see it. The building is still there.

It's on the National Registry of Historic Places, and it's now the Union Hill Athletic Club. Oh, my God. If you've seen it, it sits on the corner. Yes. Yes. That's crazy. So that used to be the Greenlees Motor Car Company.

Robert Greenlees' dealership went like gangbusters, and he began selling cars faster than GM could get them to him. Whoa. than GM could get them to him. Whoa. The dealership grew to be really prestigious, and it became kind of a status symbol to have the silver buy green lease emblem on the back of your car. Wow.

He became one of the biggest individual stockholders in General Motors, and at one point in the 40s, he loaned the growing General Motors company a million dollars to help them expand. Whoa. Whoa. Yes. Robert and his first wife, Bessie, had an adopted son named Paul,

but Robert didn't have any biological children until he and Bessie divorced and he married Virginia, 27 years his junior in 1939. No, no. She wasn't like super young. She was just younger than him. By 27 years? Yeah. Fuck off, no. She wasn't like super young. She was just younger than him. By 27 years? Yeah. Fuck off, Robert.

That's gross. She was like, like 30 and he was 50. Gross. All right. Do you disagree? I think the older you get, the less the age gap matters. Well, yeah, I agree.

It would be more disturbing if she was 10. But it's still gross. Okay, so they married in 1939. I'll allow it. And then Robert and Virginia welcomed a daughter in 1941 and a son in 1947. Naturally, they named them Virginia and Robert. Why? Why?

It was a huge home, but there was only room for two names in there. Yeah, I don't get that. Robert Sr. was 65 years old when Robert Jr., Bobby, was born. That's pretty old. Oh, oh, oh, Brandy, don't judge. You know, the mom was in her 30s. She was 38. Oh, she was so old.

Okay, so he's 65 with an infant. Yeah, with a new baby. Okay, so let's go back to the Greenlees home. Okay. Remember, it's September 28th, 1953. Gotcha. At around 1130 a.m., the phone rang, and on the line was Sister Morand, a nun at Notre Dame de Sion, the private Catholic school Bobby attended.

Mm-hmm. Still around. Still around. 38th and Locust. Nunning it up. For anybody following along on their Kansas City map. Yep. And she was calling to check in on Mrs. Greenlees as less than an hour earlier, her sister had come to school in a frantic state and said she needed to pick Bobby up as his mother had just had a heart attack while shopping at the country

club plaza whoa okay yes so she's calling the home of the greenleases the nun is to just check in and see how Virginia's doing because Virginia's sister had come to the school and said I have to get Bobby I have to take him to the hospital his mother's had a heart attack. But when she calls the home, Virginia answers the phone. And she said the nun is very confused. Oh no. And Virginia's confused. Oh no. And she's like, what do you mean my sister picked up Bobby? Oh no, I don't have a sister. Right? Okay, so I looked really hard to find out if she really had a sister. I don't okay but for sure her sister didn't pick up yeah yeah yeah so virginia's like you must be mistaken i'm perfectly fine i'm not ill where is my son oh shit and the nun has to be like i sent your son off with your sister who's not your sister yeah

it was then that sister mirand realized she'd made a grave error oh my god i've got goosebumps oh that's terrible. In her haste to get Bobby due to the woman's state, the woman was frantic. She'd never asked for any verification of who she was. Oh, my God. And when Bobby came to the office, he placed his hand in the woman's and gone willingly with her. How old was he? He was six.

Oh, no. And so the nun believed it was his aunt. Oh. By now, it was clear that bobby had been kidnapped oh my gosh the green leases immediately called police and the police quickly let the public know of bobby's kidnapping but they didn't have a ton to go on they had the nun's description of the woman who had come to the school um and she had taken bobby in a cab so they had the nun's description of the woman who had come to the school. And she had taken Bobby in a cab. So they had the cab driver's description. And he had dropped them off at a parking lot where they had gotten into another car, a 1947 Plymouth station wagon with another man. So they had that description.

But that was it. They just had the nun's description and the cab driver's description. And then the description of this car. Oh my God. Wasn't really enough to do much of anything. By that evening though, the green leases received a ransom note. It read, your boy has been kidnapped. Get $600,000, which is like $5.6 million in today's money. Ooh. Get $600,000 in 20s and 10s Federal Reserve notes from all 12 districts. What?

Which I don't really know what that means, but. That just sounds like more of a pain in the ass than anything. Well, yeah. It says, we realize it will take a few days to get this amount the boy will be in good hands when you have the money ready put an ad in the kansas city star that says we'll meet in chicago signed mr g do not call the police or try to use chemicals on bills or take numbers do not try to use a radio to catch us or the boy dies i don't know what that means either do not try to use a radio to catch us or the boy dies. I don't know what that means either. Do not try to use a radio to catch us.

Yeah, I don't know. If you try to trap us, your wife, your other child, and yourself will be killed. You will be watched all the time. You will be told how to contact us with the money. When you get this note, let us know by driving down Main Street between 39th and 29th for 20 minutes with a white rag on the car antenna. If you do exactly as we say and try no tricks, your boy will be back safe within 24 hours after we check the money. Deliver the money in an army duffel bag. Be ready to deliver at once on contact four hundred thousand dollars in 20s and twenty

thousand dollars in tens the note was signed m just the letter m okay at midnight robert greenlees did just as he was instructed and drove up and down main street between 29th and 39th for 20 minutes with a white rag tied to his car antenna to signal the kidnappers. The following morning, he went to Commerce Trust Company, which is Commerce Bank now, and met with a bank executive

whom he instructed to gather the ransom money exactly as it was laid out in the note. That bank executive was Arthur Eisenhower, brother of current president Dwight D. Eisenhower. What? Yes. Oh, my God. Arthur set to work immediately.

But wait, he didn't say, oh, this is ransom for my kid. No, he did. Oh, okay. So he involved the police? The police were involved, but he didn't let the police, like, intervene. Okay. He did. They called the police immediately before they got the ransom

note and so the police were aware of everything that was going on but he was like i want to try to follow the instructions as closely as i can yeah okay gotcha so the eisenhower's like okay i'm gonna draw up all this ransom but this is gonna take several days of course to do because i got all these notes from 12 different from the 12 different districts whatever the fuck that means and it's a shit ton of money news of the kidnapping quickly spread and it became a worldwide story law agencies and the public alike were shocked there had not been a kidnapping of this magnitude in a decade more than a. Because the Lindbergh Law really cracked down on the penalty that could be carried with kidnapping. I think you mean penalty. So the Lindbergh Law allowed basically if you kidnapped somebody and took them across state

lines or kidnapped somebody and harmed them in any way, you became eligible for the death penalty. Right. I mean, it really cracked down. Suddenly it wasn't such an attractive crime anymore. Exactly. So the FBI was super eager to get involved. They're like, let us in there. Let's see what we can figure out.

But under provisions of the Lindbergh law they couldn't enter the case for seven days why the law stated that after seven days if the kidnap if the kidnap victim was not recovered authorities could presume that the kidnappers had taken the victim across state lines and then they would have broken a federal law which allowed the FBI to intervene. So until that seven-day mark or until they had proof that the kidnapped victim had been taken across state lines, they could not join the case. Isn't that, like, just frustrating? Well, and seven days is a very long time.

It's a very long time. Obviously, that law has been changed. Yes. Yeah, that seems ridiculous but um the green leases like i said were insistent that the police and the fbi keep their distance they didn't want to anger the kidnappers and they believed if they just followed their instructions to the letter they would get bobby back they just could not imagine that anyone would harm an innocent six-year-old boy. The kidnappers, the kidnappers, I don't know how I pronounced it.

I think I said it weird. Did you? I don't think you did. I think I said kidnappers. the kidnappers offered proof that they had the boy by sending the green leases Bobby's Jerusalem cross, which was a medallion that he had worn on his uniform the day of his abduction. Okay. And the man who called himself M stayed in nearly constant contact with the family, calling them several times a day. But because the FBI wasn't involved yet, like they weren't tracing the calls or anything like that. Are you kidding me? Yeah. They didn't start, like it wasn't until like the last

couple calls that they even recorded the calls or anything. What? He was calling multiple times a day. And at times he sounded confused or drunk or on drugs. And this led to two botched ransom deliveries because M gave contradictory instructions on where to leave the duffel bag containing the $600,000. Oh, my God. Oh. So several days have gone by now because, like, it took time to get the ransom money together, and then the drop is going wrong.

They can't figure out where to leave the duffel. And they're like, we just want to give you this money so that we can get our kid back. Like, well, I'm so frustrated. They had the technology to trace the cause. But the local authorities didn't have that technology? I guess. I believe.

Fuck all of that. And he's calling multiple times a day? Multiple times a day. Like an insecure babysitter? Like, what the hell is that? At one point, Virginia is like, I'm'm gonna ask you some questions that I want you to ask Bobby and if you can give me the answers then I'll know that he's okay yeah yeah of course and they're like we promised you he's okay he's so annoying we're just ready to get him back to you

and she's like well yeah he's a rambunctious six-year-old I'm sure he's driving you crazy didn't you think and so she asked him like what was the name of their driver on their trip in Europe this past summer? And then another question. I can't remember what the other question was. And so he's like, okay, let me get the answers, and then I'll call you back. And so, like, they spoke a couple times after that, and he never gave the answers. And so finally she was like, what have you gotten the answers from Bobby? And he's like, Bobby won't speak to me.

So, no, I haven't gotten the answers from Bobby? And he's like, Bobby won't speak to me. So, no, I haven't gotten the answers yet. So now it's October 4th. So six days have gone by, seven days? No, longer than that. 30 days in September. Yeah, so six days. Do you like how I was not helping you at all? I was like, sounds like there might be a math problem here.

I'm going to just sip on my iced coffee. So it's October 4th, and a third attempt to drop the ransom is arranged. And after making sure everyone was clear on the instructions, two Greenleaf associates dropped the duffel in eastern Jackson County where Lee's Summit Road crosses the Little Blue River. Oh, my God. Yeah. So there was like, there's like a little wooden bridge there. Okay.

Where Lee's Summit Road goes over the Little Blue River and they dropped it like on the bridge. Okay. blue river and they dropped it like on the bridge okay m soon called to report that he had picked it up and he said that the directions for picking up bobby would be sent to the western union telegraph office in pittsburgh kansas what about a hundred miles south of kansas city so the two green lease associates drove there arriving the morning of october 5th So the two Greenlees associates drove there, arriving the morning of October 5th. Skeptics wondered how the Greenlees' could be so sure that Bobby would be returned to them and how they could just hand over $600,000 like that, which was the largest ransom in history to that point.

Because they had the money and they wanted their kid and they wanted to believe it. Because they had the money and they wanted their kid and they wanted to believe it. Yeah. And it was believed that the Greenleases were heavily influenced by the Mary McElroy kidnapping. Oh, of course they were. Her father had followed the rules and he had gotten his daughter back. Yeah. Bobby had not been kidnapped by the same charming kidnappers as Mary, though.

Oh. had not been kidnapped by the same charming kidnappers as Mary, though. And no telegraph with instructions to Bobby's location ever came. The Greenlees family would not get the same happy ending that the McElroy family had. Bobby had been kidnapped by Carl Austin Hall and Bonnie Brown Hetty. Carl was a 33-year-old small-time crook who'd spent an inherited fortune. He inherited like $200,000 when his father died. Which is how much today? Didn't look it up.

Really? I think I have my inflation calculator up, though. I don't know. But it would have to be like 2.5 million, right? No! Nice try. Wow. I have to be the...

Wait, actually, I could do the math real fast. Yeah, do it, do it. Where is... Just under 2 million. Wow, and he just blew all that. He blew it on drugs, alcohol, bad business ventures, gambling. He bought a house off of Ward Parkway somewhere, but I couldn't find an address for it. God.

My biggest fantasy is that it would be like my house. Yes. What a douche. Yeah, so he totally squandered his inheritance and then he turned to this lifestyle of crime to try and make some money bonnie was a 40 year old divorcee who was running a prostitution business out of her St. Joseph, Missouri home. Whoa. That's just not what I was expecting. She had been married to a pretty well-to-do guy.

I can't remember what business he was in, but it went south. And then she had married some other guy and he was like a small time criminal and she was kind of like his getaway driver sometimes. And he ended up being shot and killed when he was, I don't know, doing some robbery or something. And when the police let her know that he had been shot and killed, she was like, it's too bad. Took it real well, did she? Yeah. And they're a shame. bed took it real well did she oh in their shame so um so carl and bonnie met at a hotel bar in may 1953 and quickly moved in together at bonnie's saint joseph home so they met in may and they did this kidnapping in september and they were already calling each other like their common law spouse by this time. So honestly, I don't think anything would surprise me about two people who are like, let's kidnap.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, of course, of course they did that. So why not? What? what carl had gone to military school with robert greenlees's older son paul oh and had for years dreamed of a way that he could take advantage of that connection and somehow take part of the family's wealth did he go to the military school that's in um shit boonville no oh that's the one he went to. Oh, well, fuck. Never mind. Which one did you want him to go to? The one that's in, shoot, it's in Missouri. Why can I not think of the name of it? Wentworth?

Yeah. Yeah, huh. No, that's not where he went. Okay. Thank you. Well, that tangent was worth it. Stay tuned for more of those. No, he went to some military school in Boonville, Missouri.

So you like the diet Snapple. Sorry. I'm just going to interject with totally worthless shit now. So he was jealous of the family and he wanted just a piece of their wealth. They had all this money.

What did they need with all of it? And so with Bonnie coming into his life, he finally thought of the perfect plan. The kidnapping for ransom scheme

would set them up for life if they could get a big enough payout out of it. So Carl set out to doing some calculations. What was the maximum amount of money that he could easily transport by weight and volume? Like he's like doing legit math to figure out how much this would weigh, how much space it would take up, how he would transport it. And that's how he settled on the number of $600,000 in that specific denominations.

You know, $400,000 of it in 20s and then $200,000 of it in 10s. Wow. Yes. Very bizarre. Once he had put together what he thought was a foolproof plan, he ran it by Bonnie. And she was in. Why, that's better than sex, she replied, which is just disgusting.

Sorry. That's so weird. Yeah. So on September 28th, the day of the kidnapping they drove from uh saint joe to kansas city they stopped at some bar that opened early in the morning and had a couple drinks and then they went to cat's drug store at 39th and main yeah yes Yes. Norman and I always stop at antique stores when we go to St. Joe's. It's basically the same thing. Any day now we're going to kidnap somebody. Carl went inside and bought Bonnie some, like, lozenges so that she wouldn't smell like alcohol when she went to the school.

Then she got out of the car. She walked a couple blocks and got a cab and had the cab take her to Notre Dame to Scion. She went in, told the sob story about how Virginia had had a heart attack on the plaza and how she needed to take Bobby. She must have been a really good actress. Yeah. And I mean, she just looked like a normal woman. Like she, yeah, she must have been very believable. So the nun, so the nun who went and got Bobby was like in charge for the day because like the mother superior was out for whatever reason. Oh, no.

Yes. Oh, that poor woman. So it was not her normal. She would not have been the person in charge of that normally. I bet she never forgave herself. I'm sure she didn't. Yep. So they go and get Bobby.

Bobby comes out and, like I said, places his hand in Bonnie's hand. Sure. And the nun doesn't think anything of it, and they go. It wasn't until almost an hour had gone by that she was like, Oh, my gosh, you know, I didn't really confirm who that was. And so that's why she called the Greenlees lease home and i wonder how good they were at confirming those things back in the day yeah i don't know i mean now i know they're super on top yeah but yeah it was a long time ago yeah so they bobby and bonnie get in the cab They go back to the cat's drugstore where Carl is waiting in Bonnie's station wagon.

They get in, the cab leaves, and they drive off and they head south to farmland in rural Johnson County. To your house. Nope, not to my house, but another location that you know quite well. Oh my God. It's now the Cedar Peak. No, just right near where Oak Park Mall is now. Where we spent every weekend for years. Yeah, it's just off 69 Highway and 95th Street, which is where Oak Park Mall is.

Good God. Yeah, so it's just um yeah i mean there was nothing there just some farmland they pull into a field right by the barnes and noble so um bonnie gets out they have a dog with them. They have Bonnie's, um, boxer with them. Okay. They let the boxer out of the car. It kind of runs off. And so Bonnie goes and chases off the, chases the dog and leaves Carl and Bobby in the car. Okay.

And Carl. No. Attempts to strangle Bobby. No, why? With a length of clothesline. What the fuck? It's too short. He can't make it work. He can't get it to, he can get? It's too short. He can't make it work.

He can't get it to, he can get it around his throat, but he can't twist it properly. And so it's not working. Oh, fuck. And so he has a.38 caliber pistol in his pocket and he pulls it out and he goes to shoot Bobby. Well, Bobby is six years old and he's now very alarmed and he's in this car and he's fighting and he misses him with the first shot. What? Yes. And so he shoots him again and he shoots him in the head and Bobby dies.

Oh, my God. Bobby was dead before they ever sent a ransom note. Why? Yeah. Why? Why? Oh, my God. Yeah.

Why? Oh, my God. Yeah. So Bonnie is out running after this dog. And she knew the plan was to kill Bobby there. That was the plan? And she said that's better than sex? Yes, but the plan was for Carl to strangle him. So she hears the shots and she's like, oh, my gosh, what's going on?

And so she gets the dog and she goes back to the car and there's blood everywhere. And Bobby's like, oh, my gosh, what's going on? And so she gets the dog and she, you know, goes back to the car and there's blood everywhere. And Bobby's dead. And so Carl is wrapping him up in some plastic sheeting that they had in the car. And they wrap him up and they, like, put a blanket over it. And the dog lays on top of the blanket. Oh, my God. And they drive back to St. Joe, where the previous night they had dug a grave for bobby in their backyard so they take him out of the car they pour quick lime over they unwrap

him they pour quick lime all over him they wrap him back up in plastic and they bury him in this grave this little three by five grave they've dug in the backyard and then they plant a dozen chrysanthemums on top of him so that it just looks like a flower bed because you've got all this freshly dug dirt in the yard now and so they put flowers on top of it so that if anything looks suspicious it's just a new flower bed this up for these pretty flowers yep and then after doing that, they drove back to Kansas City and mailed the ransom note.

So he was... Fuck them. Yes. Yeah. Horrible. So then... I know, it's terrible it's terrible so then you know a few days go by and they're interacting with the green leases and finally they get the ransom and so they take the six hundred thousand dollars oh good for them and

carl is convinced that they're going to be able to track him to saint joe somehow uh-huh and so he's like, we got to leave. Let's go to St. Louis. Okay. And so they go to St. Louis. They get to St. Louis. They've got all this money. They check into this like seedy like apartment place where you can rent,

you know, an apartment like by the week or whatever. They check in there. And meanwhile, this whole time they've been drinking heavily. It is amazing that they were able to pull any of this off because they've just been drunk or meanwhile this whole time they've been drinking heavily it is amazing that they were able to pull any of this off because they've just been drunk or high the whole time because carl's like addicted to heroin and they're both major alcoholics so they've just been like the virginia said in the phone calls you know yeah it's totally incoherent yes so they check into this motel apartment place in St. Louis. Looking sketchy as hell. Oh, yeah.

Bonnie passes out in the bed. She's out cold. Great. So Carl leaves her $2,000 and he takes off with the rest of the money. Okay. Well, you know. So he goes, he doesn't leave town. He just goes across town and checks into a really nice hotel.

And he meets this cabbie along the way. And he kind of creates this relationship with this cabbie. And so he, like, becomes kind of his personal valet. Like, he's taking him wherever he wants. He hooks him up with some hookers. And Carl is just flashing all this money around. He's tipping everybody, you know, crazy amounts. He's just. Because he's a fucking idiot.

He blew through a huge inheritance. Yes. So, of course, he's going to blow through this right now. So, this cabbie is like, something seems sketch about this guy. Uh-huh. For sure. Well, this cab company is owned by a known Bob Moss. it sounds by bob moss what i loved was you you looked so confident So confident.

Bob Moss. The mob boss. No relation to Bob Ross. I mean, this is just a crazy question. His name's Bob Moss and he's a mob boss? He had no choice. He had to get into it. He had to do it.

Oh my God. So this cabbie lets his boss know. And I think the mob guy, I think his name's Joe Costello. And so he lets him know. Are you going to make it? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That was just so funny.

I honestly didn't even know I'd said it until I finished. I was like, wait, that wasn't right. That's what made it so funny when you said it. Like, boom. And then. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay.

I'm with you now. I'm with you. So now the mob's tipped off. Right. That this guy has all this money. Shit. Yes. I don't know why I'm saying shit.

I don't care what happens to this guy. He killed a little boy. No, you know what? I do care what happens to him. I want horrible things to happen to him. Okay. This guy, this mob boss, Bob Moss, has a friend in the police department, like a crooked cop. Okay. And so he lets him know what's going on.

Excellent. And so they track this guy down, this Carl. Uh-huh. And they arrest him. And they bring him to the station. They start questioning him. And they figure out, you know, this ransom's been paid. So they think it's probably the guy. They put the pieces together. So they bring him to the station. And at some point, he had transferred the ransom from the army duffel bag into two metal suitcases.

Okay. Only one metal suitcase shows up at the police department when they bring Carl in. Interesting. So they only ever have recovered half of this ransom. Wow. The other half of it, never been found. Lost in the moss. Yeah, that's right.

So they have Carl in there, and, you know, they think they know that he's the guy that kidnapped him, so they start questioning him. But this guy, he is so drunk that they can't even properly question him. Oh, my God. At one point, he starts getting, like, violently ill because he's had so much alcohol. So they have to, like to take him to the hospital.

And then they bring him back on a stretcher and are questioning him on a stretcher. Why do so many of these old-timey cases involve stretchers? I have no idea. So he finally starts to kind of give him bits and pieces. He's like, yes, I was involved in the kidnapping. I was only involved in the kidnapping. And then I turned Bobby over to this guy, Tom Marsh, who, you know. Does not exist.

I don't know where he took him. I wasn't involved after that. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, that story obviously falls apart. Yes. And finally, he gives him the full story. Exactly what happened. Tom Marsh is not a real

person obviously the boy was dead before yeah they ever even asked for the ransom he gives up bonnie's identity bonnie comes in they bring her in for questioning they start they start interrogating her and she's like no i had no idea this was the plan i thought that bobby was carl's son and that virginia was his ex-wife and that he was keep she was keeping bobby from him and she's like sewing this whole tale about how you know how she was not in on it she had no idea and oh my word and obviously that falls apart too yes yes and so finally all of the truth comes out and they finally admit that he was killed in Kansas, which means that they took him across state lines. Which makes it a federal crime and makes them eligible for the death penalty.

Yeah. So the FBI gets involved. Boy, not a minute too soon. Right. Not a minute. Ultimately, they give full confessions. Yeah. And they do go to trial, but it's just to determine their sentencing.

Right. They went before a jury on November 16th, 1953. And the defense lawyers kind of half-heartedly tried to win life sentences for their clients if i was a defense lawyer and i had a client like this i'd be like oh please don't be too yeah exactly and i'm gonna take a nap now so they described heady as a woman who was destroyed by marital sadness and characterized characterized Hall as a man who was ruined by greed. Both were victims of alcoholism. And Bonnie's attorney said, I'm not interested in sympathy for my client.

But I think after you hear the evidence for 40 years of Mrs. Heddy's life and the horrible torture she went through and, you know, she had abuse after abuse, you can realize that the recommendation of life imprisonment can be the outcome in this case. Did he have any evidence of, like, actual abuse? No! Or was he just throwing the word abuse around? Okay. Yeah.

The prosecution just dashed any hopes the defense had of swaying the jury to recommend life imprisonment. The principal witness against Hall and Hetty were Hall and Hetty themselves. They read their confessions in their entirety in court for the jury. And the confessions completely described like their whole plan of it. And then the moment they killed Bobby and all of it. And their confessions were 63 pages long whoa yeah just it went through every step of the thing yeah i mean that's shows how much

premeditation yeah into it there it's a that there were women in the courtroom who cried during when they finally got to describing the murder of course um both of bobby's parents testified which sent you know a very powerful emotional message to the jury obviously other witnesses included sister mirand who was able to identify bonnie in court yeah i just felt terrible for her like you know she for everybody oh yeah that would be horrible oh Oh, yeah. You would never forgive yourself. Grace Hatfield, who was from the Hatfield Hardware Company, where Hall went and purchased the shovel to dig the hole. She went and testified and said, yeah, I saw him buy the shovel. And then someone from a hardware store where he had bought the lime testified. And then two FBI agents testified that they had found two bullets from a.38 caliber handgun in the station wagon. And that they did ballistic tests and it proved that they were from Halls 38.

On November 19th, the jury deliberated for just over an hour before sentencing them both to death by the gas chamber. So this was in federal court, but there was no place for them to carry out the death sentence. They didn't have a federal prison that had a gas chamber. And so they used a Missouri state penitentiary to carry out their death sentences. They didn't appeal at all. Really? No. After they were sentenced to death, Bonnie sneered, I'd rather be dead than poor.

Oh my God. When the sentence was announced, the gallery in the courtroom exploded in thunderous applause, and Robert Greenlees, who had been sitting quietly in the courtroom throughout the trial, said, It's too good for them, but it's the best the law provides. I agree. Yeah. Hetty would be the first woman executed in Missouri since 1834, and she was only one of two women ever executed, like, in federal court.

Wow. She was permitted to visit her lover on the night of their execution, and they dined together on their favorite meal of fried chicken. She was allowed to visit her lover? Yep. chicken. She was allowed to visit her lover? Yep.

Hedy sat outside of Hall's cell while he nervously gripped the bars and Bonnie Hedy stroked his hands and patted his head telling him that everything was going to be alright. What a weirdo. It was said that Hall was terrified for days that he was going to be killed in prison because he was a child murderer.

Yeah. And he didn't feel protected. Oh, gosh. How terrible that must have been for him. He must have felt so vulnerable and alone. The execution of the two attracted great attention. The warden of the prison originally announced that Hall and Hetty would enter the gas chamber in bathing suits. What?

And local newspapers, like, drew up little cartoons of them in swimming suits. And all these women's groups, like, were up in arms about how inappropriate and unseemly and indecent that was. And so the warden changed his mind and ordered that Hall would die wearing green denim slacks and Hedy would wear a green denim dress. Well, yeah, why did he want them in swimsuits? I don't know. It's super weird, right? Yeah.

It's just kind of his thing. He thought he could get away with it. About half an hour before they were to die, the warden allowed the pair to be alone together in a cell, undisturbed and without supervision. Okay. When Hall stepped from the cell, lipstick was smeared on his mouth and neck. Well, yeah. Of course.

Blindfolds were then placed on the condemned pair and they were led to the gas chamber. Hedy's chief concern at the moment of her death was how she would appear before those witnessing her execution. She had curled her hair and done her makeup and they said she spent hours getting ready that morning.

Was she at all worried that she would look like an accomplice in a child murder? I don't, it doesn't sound like it. Just worried she'd have some curls out of place. Okay, relatable. She was led trembling to a metal chair only inches from where Hall sat in the gas chamber. They were executed together,

side by side in a gas chamber at the same exact time. In the same chamber? Yes. That is so... They put two chairs in the chamber. This sounds like a bad movie. Like if this were in a movie, you'd be like, no, they wouldn't do that. It would never happen.

Yeah. Apparently it happened. Weird. She turned her blindfolded face to the warden and said, thanks for everything. You've been very kind. And then she turned to Carl and said, are you all right, honey? To which he replied, yes, mama. Ew.

The doors to the chamber were then closed and witnesses could see through the glass that Hetty and Hall were talking quickly to each other, but you couldn't hear their final words. Cyanide pellets were dropped into small vats of sulfuric acid beneath the chairs in which the killer sat, and Hall breathed deep, swallowed once, and died. Bonnie Hedy fought death to the last second though she held her breath until she couldn't hold it anymore and then finally when the room was filled with fumes she took a breath and died wow yeah so as i mentioned only half the ransom was ever Yeah. So there's lots of theories about what happened to it,

but the generalized theory is that it ended up in the mob somewhere. Of course. And this crooked crop. What is happening? Crooked cop and his bob moss. Took it. Yeah. cop uh-huh and his bob moss um took it yeah and his name was lieutenant shoulders when doing it's just a funny name yeah basically they ended up calling for his resignation they said they couldn't prove it obviously but they knew he was involved and so he resigned against his will and he moved to hawaii and he was kept under surveillance by the FBI for a long time.

Really? Hoping that they could find some proof that he had the money. Well, if he could retire to Hawaii, doesn't that seem right? Yes. As for the green leases, they tried to carry on Bobby's memory through philanthropy. They gifted a piece of property on state line to build Rockhurst High School. What? On what would have been Bobby's 15th birthday. They dedicated it as Greenleaf Memorial Campus. Wow. They also endowed funds for Greenleaf Library

at Rockhurst University, which opened in 1967 and is still open today. That's where my dad got his master's. Virginia Greenleaf never got over the loss of her son, obviously. And she outlived the rest of her family, including her daughter, Virginia, which I think would have just been horrible. You're kidding me. Yeah, Virginia died really young. She died in the late, I think in the late 70s or early 80s, I believe. I didn't write this down, obviously, but I believe.

And the mother, Virginia, it's very confusing when they're both named Virginia lived till 2001 oh my and upon her death she left a million dollars to Rockhurst University and a million dollars to Rockhurst High School

in her husband and son's names wow yeah oh my god so that's the that's the kidnapping of Bobby Green

I had no idea I had never heard of this how do we have this many weird cases Bobby Green. I had no idea. I had never heard of this. How do we have this many weird cases in Kansas City? I have no idea. Wow. No idea. That was crazy upsetting. Very upsetting.

I'm not going to do any more kidnappings for a while. Yeah, right. Stay tuned next week. Can't anymore oh my gosh i was writing this one up and i was like really this is i'm this is too many kidnappings we gotta have a hard already done a bunch of research yeah no i hear you i'm in too deep. Yeah. Okay. Well, that was good. Yeah. I mean, it's a crazy case. Yes.

And to never have heard. I mean, we have lived here. I've lived here my whole life. You have not, but. Almost my whole life. Almost. And never heard of it. And it happened.

I mean, you know, right around here. At the mall we used to go to all the time. Oh my God. The freaking Greenleaf Motor Car Company still standing right down the street. That is so weird. Super weird. There's a campus at Rockhurst named after him. There's a library at Rockhurst named after him.

I, yeah, I don't know. I need a minute after this one this is weird pretty nuts yeah um so i'd like to wrap up this episode today by talking about something some feedback that my sister gave us about the podcast okay so she was listening which sister casey casey okay was listening to the episode where we talk about dateline and we talk about keith morrison yeah she texts me and she said did you give me false information no okay she said those are the worst keith morrison impressions i've ever heard what and i said hold the fucking phone uh-huh first of First of all, they're not Keith Morrison impressions.

They're Bill Hader doing Keith Morrison impressions. And they were spot fucking on. So I am going on the record right now and saying, Casey, you are wrong. They were excellent. I'm trying to think of how to respond in a Keith Morrison impression. Speaking of feedback that we have received, do you want to talk about the email we got? Yes. Okay.

I'm actually going to pull it up. Excellent. So, everyone, Brandy has finally gotten the feedback she deserves. Brandy has finally gotten the feedback she deserves. It's in regard to the balloon boy case. We got a very upset email. Very strongly worded email. Should I read the whole thing or is that over the top? No, I think let's get the high points and you can read how they finish it. Okay.

No, I think let's get the high points and you can read how they finish it. Okay. Yeah. So basically, the person was dissatisfied with my delivery of the Balloon Boy case because I gave a very biased view on it. And he hadn't finished the episode yet and hadn't listened to our other episodes yet, but was sure that I had some point um issued a correction about how i delivered that story and i'm here to tell you i'm not giving a correction brandy i am 100 on his side you know the whole time in that episode you you were like mocking. You were making fun. You seemed to think that if you wanted to create like a basically a spaceship type thing, you needed some sort of engineering degree.

Yeah. That's color me embarrassed. I think all you need is some tinfoil and a dream. I think all you need is some tinfoil and a dream. Why don't you read for our listeners how he signed off the email there about a man just trying to take care of his family. So I'm going to do a little more. He goes, Balloon Boy does seem to be a very thinly veiled conspiracy. And it does come across highly biased and inaccurate how you talk about it, which does call into question every other thing you have and will ever talk about. Oh, man.

I'm sorry. Did I miss the part where we claim to be an unbiased news source? I like that it calls into question everything i've said and will ever say fair so then he gives us some links to some youtube videos to watch so that we can be more educated the links are of richard heaney talking about the balloon boy and he says you may wish to watch blah blah blah to you know not crap on a father that was doing his best given the circumstances and pressure put on his family okay so my theory right away this is richard heaney emailing us had the same exact thought has to be has to be 100 only he would care this much yes

no one else would give no one else would give a shit norman thinks i'm wrong story of my life yes i i am 100 thinking it's him so i emailed him back oh you did i emailed him back dot dot dot is this Richard he has not returned the email oh it's totally him and he's like oh shit so I gave myself away so I I said to Norman do you think I should respond and ask if it's him and Norman was like haha yeah and i didn't realize he was kidding i did it because i thought it sounded like a great idea i think it sounds like and norman was like do you realize what you've done you've fed the trolls because to norman

this is just a oh yeah either way i love it either way i'm thrilled yes and i just want to say i don't trust anything you're saying right now. I don't trust anything you've said in the past. Or anything you will ever say in the future. I like turning this all on you. Like it's not also about me. How dare I crap on a man who was just trying to do his best for his family.

And you know, you made fun of the band that they put together. Sure did. Man. I, on the other hand, was fully supportive. Richard, Richard, you can email me. You can tell me it's you. It's fine. Let me be right.

If you would like to send us an email and tell us how terribly we covered a case and how biased we were, which what would be the fucking point of this podcast if we didn't give our opinions? I don't know. I wouldn't listen to that shit. Yeah. Yeah. We're not news. Yeah news yeah no this is not a news so never claim to be if you'd like to send us an email it's uh lgtc podcast at gmail.com it's It's Yihad Galad. Oh, no. And we'll let you know if you got accepted into your favorite program. That's right.

Or if you'd like to leave us a rating or a review, head on over to iTunes. Do that for us. Find us on social media. And join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics podcast adjourned and now for a note about our process i read a bunch of stuff then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary and i copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes wikipedia so we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from articles on CNN.com, The New York Times,

and The Court's Decision. And I got my info from the Kansas City Star, FBI.gov, Murderpedia.org, and GreenleafsFamily.com. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.