Let's Go To Court! - 267: The Coca-Cola Poisonings

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

Peggy Carr didn’t feel well. She was nauseous. She could barely speak. Her feet felt as though they were burning from the inside out. Her family rushed her to the hospital, but the doctors were stumped. They wondered if Peggy had the flu. They also wondered if it was all in her head. It wasn’t.  Over the next few days, her condition improved. Peggy was sent back home, only to become more ill than she’d been before. This time, a neurologist took a look at Peggy’s symptoms and posited that she might have thallium poisoning. The doctor’s hunch was correct. Nearly every member of the Carr household tested positive for thallium. And now for a note about our process. For this episode, Kristin read a bunch of articles, then spat them back out in her very limited vocabulary. We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: American Justice episode, “Kill thy neighbor” “Murder genius is outfoxed by simple ‘country cops,’” by Mike McLeod for the Orlando Sentinel Vengeance: Killer Neighbors episode, “Poison Mastermind” “Murder on the mind” by David Walton for the Tampa Bay Times “Condemned killer wants another trial,” by Bill Heery for the Tampa Tribune “Poison killer Trepal awaits judge’s ruling on poor defense argument,” by Bill Heery for the Tampa Tribune “High court rejects death row appeal in Highlands County case,” News Service of Florida YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 50+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Pond. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll be talking about a mysterious illness. Mmm, t***.

How dare you? How fucking dare you? Boy, you just took a big steamy dump all over my mystery, didn't you? Just couldn't help yourself, could you? I couldn't. I couldn't. Everyone, Brandi's in an upset mood, so she's just taking it out on others. I'm having a rough day, folks.

I had a very offensive driver's license photo taken this morning, and I'm not over it yet. She won't even show me. It's so bad. Her close friend who would never mock her at all or say she looks like a thumb. I'm guessing you look like a thumb because that's how you described it. It's just, it was from a, I was too tall for the camera setup. It was a rude angle. It's just a very rude angle.

It's so bad that when I showed it to my darling husband, who has never anything to say but the most complimentary things to me, he looked at it. And all he responded with was, well, you look beautiful. Standing there in front of me. Well, thoughts and prayers for Brandy and her new driver's license photo. Sure hope that thing doesn't go down the gutter or anything on accident.

Yeah, I think I might be losing that thing. You'd better show it. I am not to an emotional place where I am ready to share that photo with anyone. All right, that's fine. That's fine. But I'm just supposed to accept that now you're shitting all over my case. I wasn't shitting on anything.

You were pooping on the mystery. I'm sorry for mentioning fecal matter so many times. So early in the show. We're three minutes deep, and I've said it, dare I say, too many times. Too many times. Too many times. Too many times. And so I'm putting myself on a poop diet now.

I'm not saying it for the rest of the episode. That's a poop diet. I can only eat this. This just in. But I can eat all the poop that I want. I've just developed a poop allergy. Okay, I went too gross for Brandy. Too gross for Brandy.

For those of you who are still here, thank you for sticking around. I'm back on my poop diet I won't say it again it's a lie she's going to say it so many times it's like her hyper fixation but you know what should be your hyper fixation

our Patreon damn right you know folks you sign up at the $5 level over there on Patreon and you get immediate access to 50 bonus episodes. And they are meaty. And even now, after we've changed formats, those bonus episodes, they got two cases per episode. Some say it's too much meat. Yeah, yeah. But we just keep giving you the meat.

It's like the opposite of those old Wendy's commercials. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Thank you. You said where's the beef? It's okay. There's so much beef

who can eat. I can't even get through all this beef. Okay. If I'm on a poop diet you're on a beef diet now. I've not done beef anywhere near as many times

as you said poop. You've milked the joke as much as you can. That udder is dry, baby. Oh, boy. Anyhow, you could also sign up at higher levels on the Patreon. Yeah, we got a $7 level. We got a $10 level.

And there's all kinds of rewards. Rewards. Rewards. Rewards. At the $10 level. I've said it too many times. I don't even know how you say it. Randy's driver's license phone.

No, you cannot. It's just a picture of a thumb with hair drawn on it. Hilarious. Sorry. I am not emotionally ready. I'm not stable enough for this, Kristen. We can't even joke about it. I can't handle it.

Okay, I take it all back. I take it all back. I take it all back. But you know what? We could talk about Brandy. An ad. Oh. Doodaloo. And now we're back from the ad.

Doodaloo. Doodaloo. Maybe there should be new music for when we come back from the ad. What kind of music? What do you want? Oh. No. Like someone just walked in? No. Oh. of music? What do you want? Oh. No. Like someone just walked in?

No? Oh. Oh. You want to say that? Oh. You know what? We're brainstorming here, bitch. Okay.

What if I just sing Christmas Shoes every time we come back? No. Okay. No. Sir, I want to buy these shoes. Oh my fucking God, Brandi. For my mama, please. You're listening to the end of the podcast.

It's Christmas Eve. You want some fucking tea? I'll spill it right now. I can't handle it. Could you hurry, sir? Daddy says there's not much time. I'm going to ensure that you're buried in Crocs. That's so rude.

I will bamboozle David. I'll be like, she always talked about this. It was her dying wish. Yep. She wanted the Crocs with the fuzzy lining on the inside. He's really looking forward to a Crocternity. Also, fun fact, she wants to be buried partially nude and in bright colors. Yeah, see, you'll pay.

Okay, you know, that is kind of the thing. It's not like when people do, like, everybody dress in bright blue, her favorite color for the funeral. Mine would be everybody dress in black. It would be funny if it was said in like a really unique way. Yeah. And as so many of us know, Brandy loved the color black. So just as a fun thing for her funeral, let's all wear black.

I'm going to wear shorts. I dare you to fucking show up at my funeral in jorts. No, it would be a classy tuxedo short. Remember when those were a thing? Yes, I do. I'd look great. You were in suit jackets with shorts. Yeah.

Yes, why was that a thing? I don't know, but it'll be a thing. At my funeral. That's right. Okay. Are you ready to hear? Wait, first of all, do you know anything about this case? I don't know shit about it.

You just put mysterious illness, which equals. Okay, but I called dibby dibs on a name. No, I didn't. Yeah. It was just a name. I didn't know the name. Very good. No. Okay. Okay. Well, I'll't. Yeah. It was just a name. I didn't know the name. Very good. No.

Okay. Okay. Well, I'll do some shouty shouts. I'm sorry. We're in weird moods today. We did the Zoom call right before this. Yeah, so we're kind of hot. So we're kind of amped up from that. Yeah.

Also, Brandy has tinsel in her hair. I do. So it's just a whole thing. We're just very fancy. How cool am I with my tinsel? Oh, my gosh. I actually love it. I don't know that I can exist without tinsel in my hair now.

I think I'm going to have to keep putting this shit in there. Okay. I like it a lot. I'm ready for this new branding. I was thinking about putting, like, multiple pieces in next time. Well, you're just a wild woman, aren't you? Mm-hmm. All right.

With an angel's face. Woman, child in a state of grace. She was three years old on her daddy's face. Woman, child in a state of grace. She was three years old on her daddy's knee. He said, you can be anything you want to be. She's a wild one. Running free. What are the chances that anyone's still listening to this fucking episode? No, everybody's turned it off.

They're like, what the fuck is this? What, not everyone is familiar with that 90s countryside? And not just familiar, I like that you, see, I was waiting for you to run out of words you knew so that I could surprise you by jumping in. No. No, I know all the words.

And I do too. I do too. But I wanted to impress the pants off of you. Your pants remain on. Locked, too. But I wanted to impress the pants off of you. Your pants remain on, locked and loaded. That's right. Okay. For this episode, I... Sorry. This is not even funny, what I'm about to say.

Okay. The laugh you just laughed would say otherwise. No, no. I was just going to tell you, I watched an episode of American Justice. That's hilarious. It's not funny. I'm not telling you the name of the episode because it gives shit away. Yeah, the last one was just called Kidnapped.

I know. Does this one give it away, too? Completely gives it away. Fucking Bill Curtis. Uncle. I don't know anything about this case. F*** completely gives it away. Fucking Bill Curtis. F*** uncle. I don't know anything about this case. No uncles were harmed. Okay, in the making of this episode.

There was another show I watched, but the title of the show gives it away. The whole show? Yes. You can't even tell me what show it is? Can't tell you. What is it called? Can't tell you a ding dong diddle. All right. Can you tell us what channel this show appears on?

No, I'm not telling you shit. Just calm down. Also, shout out to... Did you say a ding-ding diddle? I couldn't believe you didn't clock that. I did. I'm like a Dell laptop. It's like things are just processing for a while.

It took me a minute to register it And then I had to stop that came out of my mouth and as it came out I was like no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no about her driver's license photo? She's off her key! I can say whatever the ding-dang-diddle I want! Please don't! We're gonna have to put you on a ding-dang-diddle diet! Do you like how my dingle dangles?

I don't. Oh. That's really rude of you to say. Because I've been working on my dingle. And your dingle and how it dangles. And my confidence about it. So that really just ruined it for me. Okay.

Very sorry to hear about your dingle. Also, thank you. And your dingle. This feels like an appropriate time to tell you that, know on Paramount Plus it's just like any other app you can choose a little icon what is yours? Officer Dangle amazing

and I needed to say that. Isn't he a Lieutenant Dangle? Oh excuse me excuse the shit out of me I'm sorry he might not be no it is Lieutenant Dangle. It sure is. Sure is.

I just really identify with the man. Also, thank you to this reporter from back in the day. He doesn't want to be associated with this. Oh, okay. Yeah, with the dingles and the dangles. Probably not. What's his name? Dangle Dangle?

Mike McLeod. And he wrote an excellent piece. Mike what? You just like laughed it. You didn't actually say a name. Mike McLeod. Unless that's his last name. McLeod.

Oh, I think that's pronounced McCloud. Oh, well. M-C-C-L-E-O-D-C-C-L-E-O-D. M-C-L-E-O-D. Yeah. It's pronounced Dangle. I'm not positive. I think it's pronounced McCloud, but I don't.

All right. You know those nicknames. Like some people pronounce them some ways. Some pronounce them different ways. Ha, ha, ha. You just said nickname. Yeah, nicknames. Yeah, MC names.

Oh, I thought you were trying to say nickname. No. I was so thrilled that you fucked up. No ha ha. You just said nickname. Yeah, nicknames. MC names. Oh, I thought you were trying to say nickname. No. I was so thrilled that you fucked up. No, I was trying to say nicknames. Damn it. Damn it, everybody. Alright. Alright. Adjust your scorecards. I'm losing so far. Oh no, she's spitting!

This is a ridiculous episode. Did you spit everywhere? Oh, no. There's Kleenex right there. I've never done a real-life spit take before. I guess I'm just so hilarious. So hilarious. Anyway, he wrote that for the Orlando Sentinel back in the day.

Very good piece. Got it. All right. Brendi. Are you ready for some romance? Yeah. Well, that's too bad because the story doesn't have it. Is it me?

I can't help it. She's doing very aggressive titty bopping right now. Now all the listeners are jealous. And turned on. Well, you know, when you're blessed, you're blessed, you know? Don't blame me because I just go around turning people on all the time. I mean, that's just the way it is. Yeah, it's the way the cookie crumbles.

We get it. You just go around thumbing all the time. Stop it. How dare you? Okay, on a scale of one to thumb, in real life, as you see me right now, how close to thumb am I? Not close at all. You have the most desirable face shape because you've got the chin that comes to a point. You've got a heart-shaped face.

Not in this driver's license picture, I sure don't. No, that's why it's funny that you took a thumb photo because you do not look like a thumb. Okay, thank you. I really needed that right now. All right. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you needed it so badly. a thumb. Okay, thank you. I really needed that right now.

Alright, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you needed it so badly. Okay, so anyway, this story has no romance. Oh. So just calm down. Okay. Instead, we start with a woman who was in a vulnerable position. Peggy Carr was

40 years old, and she just ended a 14 year marriage to a man who struggled with alcoholism I like how quickly we have transitioned into serious business we're pros we're the best in the biz nobody says that

nobody says we're the best in the biz nobody says yeah let's go to court that's the best in the biz best thumbs in the biz. Best thumbs in the biz. We know what we are and that's not quite it. Giggliest in the biz? Sure. Crudest in the biz.

Very possibly. No, not crudest because I put myself on that poop diet and I mentioned it once. You just brought it up. Only to alert everyone that I mentioned it once. You just brought it up. Only to alert everyone that I'm doing great. ADHDist in the biz. Indeed. Indeed I accept my crown. So it had been her first marriage, and it had been rough. Did I mention he had alcoholism? I did.

You did. Anyway, ADHDist in the biz. So now she found herself raising three children, two boys and a girl on her own. And it wasn't easy. Peggy spent most of her life working in diners as a waitress, and she had to work really long shifts just to make ends meet. By all accounts, she seems like the perfect diner waitress. She was super friendly, very efficient, worked her ass off.

But you know, Brandy, she wanted a little fun in her life. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. But keep in mind, this was the late 80s, decades before someone could, I don't know, start up a ho phase on some app. Can't imagine who would do that. No, me either. So that made meeting people a little difficult.

She doesn't sound like she looks like a thumb at all. Oh, wow. Are you getting to a point where you can laugh about it? Is it slowly, slowly happening? Tides are turning ever so slightly. You know what would have been the worst thing David could have said to you? What? That's a really good picture.

That would be the worst thing he could have said. Mm-hmm. Oh, my gosh. You're right. I told you right about the time in college when I got my ID taken and the guy. Yeah, you remember? I do. Yeah.

Tell the people. OK. Refresh their memories. I had to go get a new ID picture and people warned me that the guy who took the ID pictures was really mean and weird. And I thought, like, well, that's not going to be a problem. Like, it's a two minute interaction. So I go there. He seemed perfectly fine.

He took my picture, then smirked at it and said, do you want to take another? And I went and looked because I assumed. And you thought it looked fine? It just looked like me. Yes. It was me. It was my face. I was just.

And so I said, no. No, it's good. I said, I was just. And so I said no. No, it's good. I said, I was like, no, it's fine. And he goes. You're sure? He goes, it's your picture. What? And it was my normal face.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He didn't get me from the thumb angle. He got me straight on. And still he was like, this needs to be burned. Yeah. So anyway, she couldn't hoe it up like Brandy, as we all know did. Also, she was living in a not particularly densely populated area.

Of what? I thought you said she was living in a nut. In a nut? In a nut. She was living in a nut. In a nut? In a nut. She was living in a nut, and then I was wondering where that was going. Nut processing plant. You know, in a way, we all start out living in a nut. It's unnecessary. Crudest

podcast in the biz, folks. I didn't mention poop. I said I wouldn't mention poop, but I didn't. I mentioned nuts. Now, if you wanted me to not mention nuts, you should have said so. Okay, that's on you. Man, it's a rough one. This is the roughest start to an episode we've had in a while.

In a long time. If this is your first episode, maybe just skip around. Yeah, maybe listen to a couple of other ones first. And then come back here when you find us charming. Can't you picture, it's someone's mom. It's like, oh, I guess I'll give that podcast a try. Yeah, Jenny's been talking about this podcast she really enjoys. I think I'll check it out.

Oh my God. We all live in a nut at some point. No, she'd be offended by you. What did I do? So many things. It's disgusting. We can't even talk about it. I'm the Grace Kelly of podcasting.

Okay. As it's been established. Thank you very much. I'm really holding back here. I could say a lot of things that would make you feel like you don't want to be in this room with me anymore. Like what?

I'm not going to say them because I am classy and also freaks me out. Freaks you out? What do you mean? Yeah. Say it. No, I'm not saying any of it. Wait, what are you talking about? About your origins, ma'am.

What about my origins? Never mind. It's gone too far. No, what is it? Well, bleep it what is it my origins yeah about you exactly what the fuck exactly oh my god what is wrong with you you started it patty do not bleep that no let the people know i don't want anybody to hear that i'm horrified by it okay patty bleep it but keep all the rest of! Let the people know No, I don't want anybody to hear that! I am horrified by it! Okay, Patty,

bleep it. Bleep it. But keep all the rest of this in so people know she's disgusting! Disgusting! This is too far! You're a terrible influence on me! I didn't make you say that! You said that to me!

Yeah, but you started it. Everyone, weigh in. Are we going to blame the woman who struggles with ADHD? Okay. Who's just barely hanging on? Or the emotionally stable one

who looks like a thumb? Lord. Oh my gosh. This is a fucking train wreck. Oh, my gosh. This is a fucking train wreck. We've got to move forward. Okay, she lived in not particularly developed areas. Is that what it was? Brandy, here's the problem.

I'm kind of enjoying this train wreck. And since I am the conductor of this episode, I'm going to slow this train down all I want. Okay, all right. Anyway, so she lived in a nut, as we all once did. But also, she lived at this moment in a not particularly densely populated area of central Florida. Boy, I worded that weirdly, didn't I? It's a bit clumsy, but that's okay. We get it.

A nut cluster. She lives in a rural area? Is that all that to avoid saying rural? That was a long way to go, wasn't it? Sure was. Whew. Yeah, why say one word when you can say 12? Not particularly dense.

Yeah, so many adverbs. Let's all take a moment. The fact that she lived in a not particularly densely populated area of central Florida also didn't help either. That is a sentence that I have in this script. Aspiring novelist, everybody. You're going to love what I've got to say. Peggy was attractive. The word count on your phone is amazing.

If the reviews will be like, so many words and yet she said so little. Peggy was attractive and pretty soon one of her regular customers caught her eye. Ooh. His name was Paralyn Carr. P-A-R-E-A-L-Y-N. But everyone called him Pi. Thank God. What? Okay, spell it for me again. I got to see this visually.

I guarantee it won't help. Okay. Because I've been staring at this for days. Okay. P-A-R-E-A-L-Y--n literally none of the shows even attempted to say this man's name yeah everyone's just calling okay my computer automatically wants to capitalize it though so feels important interesting all right all right i have no idea how to pronounce that we're calling him pie because that's what he goes by.

Like as in the food or as in the symbol? Well, it's spelled P-Y-E. Oh, okay. So neither. But he is edible. So you tell me. Oh, gosh. I didn't mean for that to be gross.

I really didn't mean for that to be gross. I meant that to be a pie joke. Oh, okay. Not, okay. be a pie joke. Oh, okay. Not, okay. Not a nut joke. I stopped myself because I was trying to be classy about it. Anyway, Peggy and Pie had a lot in common. That's kind of cute, Peggy and Pie.

Yeah, it's adorable. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's all forget about the nut stuff I said earlier. They were around the same age. And also that stuff we had to bleep out. You really went too far.

I told you it was too far. I warned you that it was too far. But I was curious. And I wasn't saying it. You can't do that to me. I'm too curious. Okay. You can't be like, hey, I know something, but you're probably not going to want to hear it. Do you want to hear it? I want to hear it. But turns out you didn't want

to hear it. No, it turns out I absolutely did not want to hear it. And I think maybe you should lose your talking privileges for a while. Anyway, they were both recently divorced from their first spouses and they both had kids at home. Pi worked as a foreman at a phosphate mine right by the diner, so after his shifts, he'd sometimes stop by the diner, get seated in Peggy's section, and then they'd do some flirting. Oh, and would he be like, uh, how about a nice slice of pie for your old boy Pi here? And she'd be like, what flavor, big boy? See, I was trying to make

you uncomfortable. I've noticed you get really uncomfortable when I do the flirty voice. Yeah, this time I'm willing to buy into it with you. I don't know. I'm in a mood today. Oh, boy. Yeah. Okay. She's wild today, folks. She's a wild one with an

angel's face. No, we can't go there. We've already done it it I'm trying to reclaim some of my confidence today that was crushed by my by my for real? yes

Brandy you're so pretty thank you you really are so pretty really this driver's license had a horrible impact on me too I'm really sorry

no thank you you're very very pretty and sometimes bad photos happen and they fucking suck. And sometimes they're damn near poor. Sometimes you get carried around in your pocket for six years.

It'd be a shame if something happened to you is all I'm saying to you and you had to go back and do a little take two electric boogaloo. Yeah. Okay.

I could do that. Yeah. Don't you worry, little lady. So they're doing some flirting. Ooh, ah, what's this? And things got serious very quickly. Before long, Pi proposed, and Peggy, of course, said yes. And in the spring of 1988, Pi brought her to his church to meet the minister.

The minister was a guy named Bob Grant, and Pi really considered him a friend. So Pi introduced Peggy to Bob, and Bob said something like, Oh, since you're marrying Pi, are you going to be joining the church? And Peggy kind of smiled at him and said, Well, Reverend, that all depends on what you preach. Oh, I love that. So Bob loved it, too. He was like, you know, she's funny and

direct. You know, that's just who she was. I think it also isn't that like perfect diner waitress banter. Yes. Like they can just. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, the irony that you can't whip anything out. Yes. I'm talking about I'm trying to describe someone's quick wit and I'm tongue-tied. So, Pi and Peggy got married and Peggy and her children went to live with Pi and his children. And, oh my goodness, it was chaos. Yeah? Yeah. How many kids altogether?

Too many kids. So many kids. That was rude of me to say. It wasn't, so, it honestly depends on which source you're looking at. How many kids altogether? Too many kids. So many kids. That was rude of me to say. It wasn't. So it honestly depends on which source you're looking at. So Peggy had two sons, one daughter. And these are all like teenage, early 20 type.

I believe Pi had two children, but also had a two-year-old grandchild. Turns out it was just one. Just the one. But a multifaceted grandchild. Sure. So sometimes we pluralize it. So there's just a lot of people in this house. The house was in Alturas, Florida, which is a rural, unincorporated community in central Florida.

Look, I used the word there. Why couldn't I earlier? Because I'd come up with the perfect sentence. It's basically one gigantic orange grove. Oh. They said it even just smells like oranges all the time. Can you imagine? That sounds fantastic. It sounds wonderful.

Yeah. Sometimes it smells like a sewer in Kansas City. So it's this giant orange grove with a few houses sprinkled in there. Yeah. And the house now contained Pi and Peggy, plus their children who were in their teens and early 20s. Oh, I've already said all this shit. You made me jump ahead. My goodness.

Curiosity got the best of me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Curiosity killed the cat. Yeah. What a terrible. Yeah. You don't like that phrase? No. Is it an idiom?

Is it a fable? Is it a catchphrase? Is it on a table? I'm very sorry. Wait, what's an idiom? Is it an idiom? I asked the table question because I was embarrassed that I didn't know what an idiom was. So my plan, if you must know, was to joke my way out of the situation. Out of the question about an idiom?

And slowly back into the script that I'm currently reading. Oh, Brandy's looking up idiom. What you got there, Brandy? A group of words established by usage is having a meaning not deducible from those individual words. It's not an idiom. No. Raining cats and dogs is the example given here. One time.

Don't I feel like an idiom? Wow. See, sometimes we're not crude. Sometimes we just come up with grade A jokes. Like that one right there. It's comedy gold. Are we going to tell a dad joke or are we going to talk about... And having to bleep it because we are disgusting.

You never know on this podcast. You don't. And that's the magic. It is the magic. You never know on this podcast. You don't. And that's the magic. It is the magic.

So they've got this house with all these people, and right off the bat, things were not great. It seemed like nobody got along with anybody. What about Peggy and Pi? They got along, right? No. Not under these circumstances? No. Everyone was arguing.

Okay. So it's like the opposite of the Brady Bunch. That's literally what her son Dwayne said. Shut up! Yeah. He said it was not the Brady Bunch. Oh my gosh! All right.

But then in another episode of another TV show, he actually said they were like the Brady Bunch, which I think he, by that. He just meant like literally two families coming together to combine a big family. Yeah. Yeah. Coming to better. To better. As you were trying to say. Yeah, so they're not getting along. And Peggy and Pi hadn't been married long at all when Peggy either discovered or just strongly suspected that he was cheating on her.

She doesn't approve. Fucking Pi over here. Fucking Pi. I hope he's not literally fucking pies. Well, I mean, if your husband's going to cheat on you. I'd rather him be fucking pies than women. Sure. Unless the Pi was really beautiful.

I think you're going to say really delicious, which is why it's funnier that you said beautiful. Yeah. Like somehow the pie is more successful than you. Somehow it knows what an idiom is. And you're like, I can't compete with this fucking pie. I can't compete with this pie. I'm a pie shell of a woman. Pies.

Anyway. All right, pies. Cheating. Yeah, we're pretty sure. He's a cheating pie man. I don't know where I'm going. Let's just move on. Move on, Kristen.

Save me from myself. I want to just let it linger. You had to. You had to. You had to let it linger. So, you know, Peggy's pissed off. She took her kids and they went to stay at a hotel. But Pi showed up at the hotel, begged her to come back.

And she did. But their relationship was never the same. Peggy was no longer smitten with Pi. Right. You know, they lost that new Pi sheen that you sometimes get on a buttery crispy crust. I'm very sorry. I will stop. Okay.

Or will I? She didn't trust him. In fact, when he took out a large life insurance policy on her, Peggy got really nervous. Yeah. Yeah. As you would. Yeah. She told her son, Dwayne, a couple times that she was scared.

Mm-hmm. And then something legitimately terrifying happened. They got a letter in the mail addressed to Pi, no return address. So Pi opens the envelope and found a message that had been typed onto a Post-it note. and found a message that had been typed onto a post-it note. It read, You and all your so-called family have two weeks to move out of Florida forever or else you all die. This is no joke.

What? Yeah. The note scared the shit out of Peggy, but it didn't seem to scare anyone else. Everyone kind of dismissed it as a joke. Really? Yeah, so I think a big factor is Peggy and Pi both had teenage boys. They were both like 15 or 16 at this point.

You know, maybe it was one of their friends being stupid. Maybe. Pi even showed it to his friend, the minister, and the minister was like, oh, I can't imagine that anyone actually wants to hurt you. So, you know, what do you do? You just keep living your life. And then a couple weeks later, or was it a couple months later? Depends on which source you're reading. Both could be right.

Yeah, I guess. Boy, that's really picky of you. Peggy woke up early to head into the diner for the breakfast shift. It was Sunday, October 23rd, 1988. And, you know, at first everything was fine. But that afternoon, when Peggy's daughter, Sissy, came to the diner, Peggy was like, whoa, I feel terrible. She said her chest hurt, her legs hurt. She was nauseous. So Sissy told her, okay, well, you need to go home. Just get some rest. So that's what Peggy did. She went home, laid down on the couch. And when her son Dwayne saw her,

he just couldn't believe it. He was struck by how out of it she seemed. And she kept talking about this weird pain in her feet. She said it felt like they were burning from the inside out. Oh. As the hours went on, Peggy got worse. She couldn't walk. She could barely speak. What the hell? Yeah. It got to the point that she couldn't open her eyes. Oh my gosh. Luckily, she knew sign language. Both her parents had been deaf, so she used sign language, because she'd known it her whole life, to tell her family about her symptoms. And finally, they were like, okay, we have to take you to the hospital. This is way too much. So they took her to Bartow Memorial Hospital, and the doctors were stumped.

At first, they wondered if maybe she had the flu. I mean, obviously a very rare, weird strain. But after a few days, they wondered if maybe this was all in her head. Sure. Sure. Because she is a woman after all. I can speak with great authority. We make shit up all the time.

You know, I have in my notes here that pissed Peggy off. I don't really know that. I'm just going from experience. Her symptoms were strange. Yes, but they were real. She said she was burning. It didn't feel like a sunburn or like, oh, you touched the stove. It felt like a burn was taking place inside her body.

It was as if someone had poured hot water into her veins. Oh, my gosh. Their minister slash friend came to the hospital to visit her, and she told him about how the doctors thought this might be psychosomatic. But she told Bob, I am not imagining this pain. It's real. Yeah. I just wish I knew what was happening to me. But they couldn't figure it out. The good thing was that after a few days, her condition improved. So the hospital staff sent Peggy home where she was expected to make a full recovery from this thing that was maybe all in her head. Yeah, all in her head, yeah.

But she didn't recover. Yeah, I don't think they, like, ever say that to men. I might be bitter from my medical experiences. And I might be backing you up out of my own bitterness from my experiences. Wouldn't that be interesting to know? Yeah. might be backing you up out of my own bitterness from my experiences. Wouldn't that be interesting to know? Yeah. How often they tell men that they're imagining their symptoms.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Fun. Yep. All right. So Peggy didn't recover. She got worse. Mm-hmm.

So much worse. Yeah. She became completely incoherent. Wow. It was shocking. Her sister-in-law, who was a nurse, was really alarmed. So she called for an ambulance and she was crying and she told the dispatcher, this woman is dying. The ambulance came and took Peggy to Winter Haven Hospital. She had all the same symptoms as before, but it was so much worse now. Now, parts of her body were shutting down. She couldn't speak at all, couldn't open her eyes. At one point, a nurse held Peggy's eyelids open to ask her if her feet still hurt. And Peggy, in sign language, signed, I hurt all over. Oh, my gosh.

Then she looked over to Pi and signed, why am I so sick? Yeah. Yeah, what's Pi got to say about all of this? Not much. He didn't know why she was sick. No, he didn't. And he didn't have the heart to tell her that his 16-year-old son, Travis, and Peggy's 16-year-old son, Dwayne, year old son Travis and Peggy's 16 year old son Dwayne were both now in that same hospital suffering from the same mysterious symptoms. You're fucking kidding me. Nope. Okay, this just got even wilder. All right. Okay. Okay. So Pi's not poisoning them.

Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. Okay. All right. The medical staff ran a bunch of tests, but they couldn't get answers. They tested for arsenic poisoning, but that wasn't it. It wasn't until Peggy's hair began to fall out that a neurologist named Richard Hostler was like, Okay, okay, hold on. It's probably not this, but is it possible that these people are suffering from thallium poisoning? Okay. So this was kind of an off-the-wall guess because thallium had been banned in the United States since like 1972.

Yeah. There were major restrictions on it, and for a very good reason. It's super deadly. There were major restrictions on it, and for a very good reason. It's super deadly. It's also odorless, colorless, and pretty damn hard to detect. Yeah.

Unless you're specifically looking for it. Right. But the neurologist's hunch made sense. People who have thallium poisoning do lose their hair usually, and that's what gives it away. hair usually and that's what gives it away yeah thallium poisoning would also explain that horrible burning sensation that peggy and duane and travis were feeling right because when you ingest it your body mistakes it for potassium and so instead of trying to get rid of it your body grabs onto it sends it all over and once it's all over your body, it blocks the ability to absorb oxygen. Wow. Which is why it feels like you're burning from the inside out. Holy shit.

So they tested Peggy and the boys for thallium. And sure enough, they all had varying levels of it in their system. So that scared the ever-loving shit out of everyone. Yes. And naturally, investigators were very suspicious of Picar. Yes, of course. How did three people in his home get this in their system? Yeah, Peggy's son Dwayne was pretty suspicious of him too

because when Peggy first got sick, he had been out of town. He'd been on a hunting trip or maybe he was with his... Mistress. Uh-huh. Either way, it seemed pretty convenient to Dwayne. But investigators tested Pi and everyone else in the Carr home, and they determined that just about everyone in the family,

including Pi's two-year-old granddaughter, had traces of thallium in their system. Okay, so is it something in their house? Is it something at the phosphate plant that Pi is unknowingly bringing home and exposing to the family? Wouldn't he have the worst systems? Exposing the family to? I said systems.

Symptoms? Wouldn't he be the worst off? I would think so, except unless he's wearing, oh. What? Okay, there's two possible. This is the way I see it. All right, let's hear it. Two possible scenarios here.

Oh, boy. Officer Brandy is in the building. From the symptoms. Because he's been exposed to it at this phosphate plant for all these years, he has some kind of immunity to it. He's like the old-timey kings who would ingest just a little bit of poison every day so they couldn't be poisoned. Or the Dread Pirate Roberts, either way.

Okay. I don't know. Princess Bride reference. All right, thank you very much. Iocane powder. Okay. I'm a lot younger than you, so I don't know that reference. Yeah, so much younger.

Or he is wearing protective gear at this plant, and so it's on the outside. Your theory's really falling apart, Officer Brandy. It's pretty quickly falling apart. It's starting to question your credentials. It's only on the outside of his clothing, and so the family's coming in contact with it when they're cleaning the house or doing his laundry. I don't know. I don't like this theory.

Okay. I like that he's built up an immunity to it because he's been exposed to it for so long. Aren't you the one who brought up nuts earlier? No, that was you. You don't seem like a very professional. That was you. Aren't you the one who brought up nuts earlier? No, that was you. You're just the one who took it way too far. I warned you. I was

too curious. So this sent the investigation into overdrive. Immediately, everyone moved out of the house and officials swarmed it. The local health department, the EPA, I mean, everybody swoops in. They tested damn near everything in this house.

They went for the obvious stuff first. So this is, as I said, a not particularly densely populated area of Central Florida. Rural, as some people might say. So they were on well water. So they're like, OK, maybe it's the well water. It wasn't the well water. So they're like, okay, maybe it's the well water. It wasn't the well water. Tested a bunch of stuff. It wasn't until they looked under the kitchen sink that they found an eight-pack of Coke in glass bottles.

Four of the bottles were empty. They ran tests, and sure enough, the empty bottles contained traces of thallium. Where did this Coke come from? You know, I didn't think to ask that. This is where the episode ends. And now that I think about it, I think— You should have gone just like a little bit further. You know, I should have read the end of the article.

I see the error of my ways now. Okay. Someone had poisoned the bottles of Coke, and they'd done an excellent job covering their tracks. Whoever did this had taken a tiny screwdriver and pried off the lids, laced the Coke with thallium, and then crimped the caps back on the bottles. They'd done it so gently and so precisely that their work could only be detected with a microscope. Wow. This was obviously horrible news, but it also made a lot of sense. After Peggy's first stay in the hospital, when the doctors had thought maybe she had the flu, a family member told her she needed to drink lots of fluids. I mean, that's what they always tell you in these situations.

So Peggy drank a bottle of Coke, which was kind of funny because Peggy didn't really like Coke. She was a Pepsi drinker. But whatever. It's what they had in the house. Yeah. So she drank it. So did Dwayne. So did Travis.

They were just trying to consume as many fluids as they could, and they'd unwittingly consumed literal poison. Worth noting, this took place just a few years after the infamous and unsolved Tylenol poisoning cases in Chicago. Yeah. I talked about this on a bonus episode. Yep. Brandy didn't show up that day. I still haven't heard. It's the June 2020 bonus episode.

Still haven't found out why she didn't show up to work that day having a baby sounds fake are you sure it wasn't all in your head no so that's that's a terrible

wild story seven people died as a result of the Tylenol poisoning and a bunch of other people died because of copycat crimes, because, yeah, what's cooler than that?

Hey, let me do it too. So officials and investigators were super worried that this was another copycat situation. Maybe someone had gone to local grocery stores and poisoned a bunch of sodas, and now was just sitting back and waiting. Maybe. Or maybe Pi did it, because he had that big life insurance policy,

and he didn't think the kids would drink it. Brandy, I'll tell you one positive outcome of the Chicago Tylenol murders. And that was that seals. Well, yeah. So that's there were there are a lot of new consumer protections. No, please interrupt whenever you want. I'm so sorry. I got excited. Oh, I know this one. ever you want. I'm so sorry. I got excited. I was like, oh, I know this one.

No, also, food and drug tampering became a federal crime. That is good. Okay. So that meant that as soon as the investigators figured out that the cokes had been tampered with, the FBI came a run in. Got a call from the mayor, and then they came a run in. Do they have mayors in not particularly densely populated areas of central Florida? They must because the FBI got involved. The FBI got involved. Pretty quickly, they decided that what had been done to these Coke bottles couldn't have been done on a large scale. I don't know how they decided that, but boy, they seemed confident. So that's good. This had to be a targeted attack on the

Carr family. I'm calling them the Carr family, even though a lot of people had different last names. It's just for simplicity. Pie Carr was the most obvious suspect. That's why Brandy can't stop thinking about him. But since he... And I can't stop thinking about a car that delivers you pie. Are they related? I don't know. What if? Oh, my God. I just came up with the best business idea. You know what? It's when we're in these weird moods that I come up with my best business ideas. Okay.

You got an ice cream truck? Yeah. Great. Great. Only problem is, yeah, only problem is wintertime, fall, kind of spring. It's too cold for the ice cream truck. What do you do? You turn it into the pie cart.

Yeah. I would totally flag. I'd probably get hit by a car trying to get my pie. Why am I struggling? I'm calling it the pie cart. Yeah. That's his name. Yeah, but we should call it the pie truck.

That doesn't. This guy's name is Pie Car. Yeah. He's just the springboard for this idea. We don't need to be married to everything okay you've got so much to learn about this business ice cream truck pie truck no no pie truck you've gotta have god okay who wants in on this business idea obviously it can it can't be Brandy. She doesn't get it.

And if you want in on my pie car business, reach out. People will hear the jingle, and they'll get excited. So they'll come out. But then they'll see it's just you and, like, a 91 Camry. I was picturing a Mercury Sable. The bottom line is, your pie car doesn't have the room to hold all the pies. Have you ever seen the trunk of a Mercury Sable? Have you ever seen the trunk of a truck?

It's huge. Pie truck. Okay. I like this idea where you and I are business partners in the podcast. We have rival pie business. I like this idea where you and I are business partners in the podcast, but we... We have rival pie business! Every other day, it's game on! We are bitter rivals in the pie business!

Pie business! Will we settle our differences? Tune in. Find out. Wait, stay tuned. No, they're already tuned in. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. God damn. Don't touch that dial. All right.

Pi Carr was the most obvious suspect. But he had actually been a little poisoned himself. He'd been a little poisoned? Yeah. He had traces of it in his system. Everyone in this family had some traces

of it. So, all right. All right. Got a little on him when he was of it in his system. Everyone in this family had some traces of it. So, all right. All right. Got a little on him when he was putting it in the bottle. Am I going to feel bad for accusing this man of poisoning his family? I don't know. I don't know. Are you going to feel bad for shitting on my idea about a pie truck? It's not that I think pie truck is a bad idea.

Pie car is the joke. Yeah, think pie truck is a bad idea. Pie car is the joke. Yeah, but pie truck is the idea. So he'd been a little poisoned himself. So to them, that means... A little poisoned. Just a little poisoned. Well, I mean, he's not hospitalized. Like, you know, he's just a little poisoned.

He too was a little poisoned. And his son, whom he loved very dearly, had been very poisoned. Well, I mean, he's not hospitalized. Like, you know, he's just a little poisoned. He too was a little poisoned. And his son, whom he loved very dearly, had been very poisoned. Super poisoned. So investigators, for that reason, ruled him out. Could you have taken that drink a little louder? I'm so sorry it was so loud. Did you shift every piece of ice in that drink? I did.

Now, what do you think of this? I'm reserving my opinions for now. Why? Are you shy all of a sudden? Because I think it's pie, but I don't want to keep accusing this man. And then you're going to tell me in two seconds that there's never any Clifton Heights anyway. Clifton Heights? What the hell are you talking about?

That's the episode where I accuse the guy of murdering his wife because he laid in the hotel bed with his clothing on. Okay, that's a bonus episode, right? I was doing a reenactment and he actually lived in Clifton, but I called it Clifton Heights. And you were like, that's not even a place. Anyway, it was a real deep cut reference. That's a super deep cut. When you reference my own podcast, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. That was a delightful episode.

Everyone, Brandy became convinced. Yeah, that that man had murdered his wife. Turns out he didn't. Turns out he was totally innocent and Brandy was mocking a man who was deep in grief. Is she a monster? He got in a bed fully clothed and pulled the covers up over his head and he was a grown man. Well, he was grieving. I understand and I apologize.

Anyhow, they asked the Carr family if they had any enemies. And, of course, no one had any idea who would want to do this to them. But, you know, Pi did show them that threatening Post-it note. And investigators were struck by that note. Wait, it was a Post-it note? Yeah, I told you it was a Post-it. I thought it was a letter. Well, it came in an envelope, but it was typed on a Post-it.

It was typed. I totally missed this the first time. You were very distracted. It was typed on a post-it? Yes. I'm so sorry for not giving that the attention that it deserved the first time around. You were distracted by the nuts. I can tell you that right now.

Don't say the nuts. You were. You were. It's just a fact. I wish it wasn't a fact, but it is a fact, sadly. So they're like, wait, it's a Post-it. And he's like, yeah, I know. I already told you.

And so they read it. They're very disturbed by the message. But they were also struck by the way it had been addressed. The car home was technically located in Alturas, Florida. But the person who sent them the Post-it knew that they used a Barto mailing address. It was kind of a weird thing. Yeah. Because they lived in Alturas, but their mailing address was Barto because their home happened to be on that post office route.

Brandy's nodding along. She gets it. She knows. I do because I used to live in one town. But if you addressed mail to me in a different town, it still came because of the zip code situation. It was very confusing for all of us. Yeah. I'm so glad you moved.

Yeah. Anyway. So that made investigators think that the person who sent the note had to be someone local. Yeah. Super local. And they were pretty sure that the person who poisoned the Cokes was super local because no one in the family was certain how the Coke got into their house. That was my question. Where'd the Coke fucking come from?

Are you mad at me about it? Here's the thing. The cars never locked their back door. There were a lot of people in this family. People were coming and going all the time. So investigators figured that this had to have been done by someone who was able to keep a close eye on the home. Someone who could pop over, drop off the poison cokes and leave. Yeah. They started asking around. You know, this is a small community, but they talked to a bunch of

people and they asked everyone, why do you think someone did this? And everyone's answer was always the same. I have no idea. No idea why anyone would do this. But then they talked to the car's neighbors. Their closest neighbors in this remote, rural, not particularly densely populated area of Central Florida. What the fucking neighbors say? Okay, so they were George Trapal and Diana Carr, which is confusing, but she's not related.

No relation. Okay. And when they asked George why he thought someone might have done this, he said someone wanted them to leave. might have done this. He said someone wanted them to leave. That is a weirdly specific answer. Looking at you, George, now

that's concerning. Looking at you, George, now. I wanted it to be clear that I wasn't looking at you, Kristen, now. But you do have the pleasure of looking at me right now.

The greatest pleasure. Your greatest joy. So the investigators were like, oh, what the fuck? So they asked him more questions, and they were struck by the fact that as he talked, his mouth made kind of a soft clucking sound like he was suffering from a serious case of dry mouth. Like he didn't have any Cokes in his house to drink?

Is that what you mean by that? No, like he was nervous. Like all of his Cokes had ended up at the neighbor's house. That is the funniest explanation for dry mouth I've ever heard. We start with everyone who's thirsty. And we narrow it down from there.

He seemed nervous. Weird, even. George admitted that he and Diana didn't get along with the Carr family. He said that sometimes it felt like everyone who lived in that house owned five pickup trucks. For the record, it does sound like the Carrs were pretty shitty neighbors.

They blasted loud music, and Dwayne and Travis, the two teenage boys, they'd get on three-wheelers, they'd ride all over George and Diana's property, they'd set off firecrackers. In fact, just a few days before Peggy got sick, she and Diana got into an argument about the loud music. Oh, really?

Yeah. Okay. Diana was screaming and cursing at her. She was pissed off about this loud music. Interesting. Yeah. Investigators asked George if he knew anything about thallium. And he claimed he only knew what he'd read in the paper.

But George fit the profile that the FBI had developed. Really? Yeah. So they had this profile and they thought that their poisoner would probably be a white male, highly intelligent touching his eyeball non-stop. My lashes are stuck together. I'm very sorry. It's very distracting.

Everyone, Brandy is knuckles deep in her own eyeball and I'm just supposed to be a pro and keep on trucking. I think there's one like It is. It's flipped inside. Well, you shouldn't have added

the tinsel to your eyelashes. I don't have any tinsel on my eyelashes. So this poisoner was supposed to be a white male, highly intelligent, and very non-confrontational. That fit George to a T. Okay.

Investigators drove away from that initial meeting with him, and one of them said to the other, he did it. Now all we have to do is prove it. Okay. I don't love that. Oh, that's a great line. That's cut to commercial.

Yeah. Okay. They're out there solving this crime. All right. He did it all we have to do is prove it that makes me nervous with the history of the police

no they're always right now if we can just make the evidence fit the crime that makes me real nervous Brandy whose side are you on? you heard about the dry mouth That makes me real nervous. Brandi, whose side are you on? You heard about the dry mouth. I did.

It sounds like you did. Fresh out of Coke. I'm not a Coke to drink as far as the eye can see. So they looked into George and Diana. They were both super intelligent. They actually met in 1980 through a personals ad in the Mensa newsletter. Oh, shit. They're in Mensa? Are they both in Mensa?

Yeah, they met in a newsletter. They're both in Mensa. You're doing a great job pretending you know what this is. Everyone, Mensa is the high IQ society, and it's for those of us who have scored in the top 2% of intelligence tests. You're hilarious. Everyone, you are so missing out on the fact that we don't have video cameras in here. The look on Brandy's face when you question her intelligence

is not to be missed. Look on Brandy's face when you question her intelligence. Is not to be missed. Do I have to tell you you're hot and smart in this episode? Yes, thank you. That'd be wonderful. I won't do it. So when they met, yeah, in answer to your question, yes, they're both in Mensa. Okay. They're both super smart.

Yeah. When they met, Diana was doing her residency in Georgia, and George was working construction in South Carolina. Oh, she's a doctor. Mm-hmm. Doctor, doctor. Give me the news. How do I get some thallium to poison my neighbors? Is that how the song goes?

My goodness. You know, it's not until you listen to the lyrics that you really understand it. It's so catchy. You just think it's an upbeat song. It seems like her being a doctor would put her in the path of being able to access some thallium. You think so? I don't know. I've been racking my brain here to figure out why I know what thallium. Hmm. You think so? Well, I don't know. I think I've been

racking my brain here to figure out why I know what thallium is. I've heard it recently on a podcast. So certain industries are allowed to use it. Okay.

But it's, you know, it used to be really common in rat poison, so just about anybody could get it. Yeah. Oh. That stopped.

Yeah. So they'd moved to this quiet little area of Florida where Diana was now an orthopedic surgeon. And George was a something. Thallium minor. No, he's like, okay, I don't know what the use is for thallium. So I don't know. He's a jewelry maker.

He's something with chemicals. He's a bird caller. I don't know. He's a jewelry maker. He's something with chemicals. He's a bird caller. I don't know. What does he do? He's a something with chemicals. He was a self-taught chemist and a self-described computer programmer. Although one article I read said that he did have a degree in chemistry, but no one else said that. Some sources said that he had his own computer programming business. Others just said he was unemployed. One thing that everyone seems to agree on is that Diana earned the majority of the money, which isn't shocking considering she was an orthopedic surgeon.

But since this story took place in the late 1980s, you should know that it wasn't remotely okay for a woman to make more money than her husband. Are you even a man if your wife makes more money than you? Does your ding dong fall off into your appletini? Okay. You should have called it his dingle dangle. Just dingle dangles floating in the appletinis. It's practically a garnish.

Brandi, I'd like to read to you from an article that ran in a Florida newspaper at the time. Some people in Alturas had a hard time understanding how a man could be content to let his wife support him. That didn't matter to Diana, a heavyset woman with a barking laugh. That's the rudest. That is the rudest. Literally? That didn't matter to Diana, a heavy set woman with a barking laugh. That's the rudest. What the fuck? That is the rudest description. Everything I watched or read made some kind of shitty reference to her being an orthopedic surgeon who, like, they had a marriage that worked for them. Yeah. Leave them the fuck alone.

Sounds fucking awesome to me. My wife's a doctor so I get to dabble in computers. Right. Great. Right. What's wrong with that? They could not help themselves. Oh my gosh. Well, and there was the fact that Diana was heavyset, so

let's not forget that. Honestly, you know, he's thin, she's heavier. Oh, my God. It must be mentioned. It must be mentioned. Also, she was loud. What the fuck? Oh, my gosh.

How is he surviving? He's not. He's a shell of a man. So, I think we can all agree that George and Diana were very weird. No. Very weird. Okay. I am concerned that they poisoned their neighbors.

Gender roles. Gender roles. But. Yeah. Maybe they did. Yeah. I am concerned about that. I think it's very likely that they poisoned their neighbors.

But also, isn't it equally bad that she makes more money than him? And. And she's loud and heavy set. Yeah. Nothing worse than that. No she's loud and heavyset. Yeah. Nothing worse than that. No. Even poison. Yeah, no.

Yeah, so there's that. And also, get a load of this. I do also love that, like, heavyset was the nice way. Oh, yeah. To say it. Yeah. Yeah, just be. Yeah, yeah.

Anyway. Yes. Get a load of this, Brandy. Yeah. Yeah, just be. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. Yes. Get a load of this, Brandi. Okay. George spent most of his days at home. Mm-hmm. Just poisoning bottles of Coke and planting them in his neighbor's home. Yeah, maybe.

George did this, obviously. I'm very sorry, Pi. My sincerest apologies to you earlier. She's done it again! Gee, I sure hope that you didn't get in bed with your clothes on because she'd really mock you then.

He initially told investigators that he spent most of his time at his office, which he said was located near Diana's office, but in truth, he was just a homebody. He spent most of his time at his office, which he said was located near Diana's office. But in truth, he was just a homebody. He spent most of his time at home. And in another deeper truth, he had also done some time in federal prison. For what now?

Well, in 1975, he'd been convicted for a conspiracy to manufacture and distribute amphetamine. Oh, so he's real good with the chemicals. Yeah, real good. Real good's real good with the chemicals. Yeah, real good, real good. Real good with the chemicals. Did about two and a half years in federal prison. And it was alleged that he had been the chemist in a big meth lab in North Carolina. Yeah, this dude poisoned his neighbors.

Yeah, maybe. Okay. We're just not sure. We just can't be sure. Brandy, would you like to hear a fun fact? Yes, I would. Thallium is often used in the creation of meth. Great.

Yes, that makes sense. Just squirrel that away. Yeah. Unrelated fact. Just another nut for you to hold on to. Okay, stop. Would you like to hear some more fun facts about George? Yeah.

Okay. One time in the 70s, George went on a cross-country road trip with a friend, and they took cookies that were laced with drugs, and they picked up hitchhikers and offered them cookies, and they didn't tell them that they were laced with drugs, which is a fucking waste of drugs, and also not okay. Not okay, yeah.

But also... This dude was cooking meth in the 80s? Were people cooking meth in the... You said the 70s even, right? This is just what's alleged. You know, he. No, he served time in federal prison for cooking. For distribution. Oh, distribution.

Okay. So even, that is way earlier than I thought meth came on the scene. And you've always been such a meth expert. That's the thing that's so funny is I know nothing about drugs. I was going to say, you're my expert. You're so confident. I know nothing about drugs, just in my mental timeline. I thought meth came on the scene way later than that.

Maybe he was a trailblazer. You ever think of that? Yes. Maybe he was a trailblazer. You ever think of that? Yes. So, investigators were pretty sure they knew what had happened here. Yeah. George had used his knowledge of chemistry to poison the Carr family.

Oh, my God. I didn't think that's where that was going at all. What are you talking about? No, I'm just kidding. God damn it. I can't believe you got me with that. Oh, damn. Bested by a thumb.

Fuck. I am humiliated. My God. Yeah, so, okay, breaking news. George had used his knowledge of chemistry to poison the Carr family. Everyone's shocked. Everybody get over it. He was breaking news.

He sent them the post-it note, and they hadn't left, so he'd probably watched their home, waited for a time when he could go over, undetected, left the tainted bottles of Coke by their back door, knowing that someone would carry it inside and drink it. Yeah. It was a good theory. That's a really good theory. Unfortunately, they had no proof. Right.

In the meantime, the Carr family continued to struggle. Peggy was put into a coma, and on March 3rd, 1989, four months after she'd been poisoned, Pye signed the papers to shut off life support. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, she had no chance of recovery. Oh, my gosh. So that's the other thing. How are the boys doing?

Okay, so they recovered. Okay. But they had a terrible time. When Dwayne went into the hospital, he weighed 175 pounds. At one point, he got down to 92 pounds. Holy shit. He was hospitalized for two months. Oh my gosh. Travis had been even worse off. There were several nights in the hospital where everyone thought he was going to die. Yeah. He was hospitalized for six months. Oh my gosh.

So that's the thing they said about thallium poisoning is another reason why it's so heavily regulated is if you get it in your system, there's not a ton that can be done. Yeah. So with Peggy off life support, this was a murder investigation. Yeah. And it had captured the attention of the national media. So this case really needed to be solved. They just needed George to slip up. Mm-hmm. And, wow, something fell right into their laps. Oh, what fell?

How did he slip? What, did he slip on a banana peel? That's exactly right. Yeah. I actually need some more beverage. Get yourself a bevy. Yeah, I need a bevy. Okay.

Get yourself a bevy. I need a bevy. Okay. Investigators found out that George and Diana were organizing a Mensa murder weekend at the local Holiday Inn. Oh, yeah? Mm-hmm. Okay. At the Holiday Inn.

Mensa murder, like a murder mystery party type thing. No, they're going to kill people. For Mensa members. Kill Mensa people at the Holiday Inn. Yeah, it's a murder mystery weekend. Hotel Motel Holiday Inn. Diana loved murder mysteries. She read them all the time. She loved the show Murder, She Wrote. Who didn't? So she and George organized this very detailed event. Over the weekend, four murders would be acted out. The story centered around voodoo.

In each story, the victim received a threatening note prior to their death. Interesting. Diana wrote the scenarios. I don't know if anybody remembers, but the Carr family received a letter, which turned out to be a Post-it note. You know what I love about what you did just there? What? I feel like I'm watching any dumb TV show. You know how, like, every 12 seconds they're like, now hold on here. If you remember.

And investigators did remember. A lesser person might have forgotten. So Diana wrote these scenarios with George's help. The people who participated were assigned roles and there were costumes and it was oh so much fun. I mean, it does sound kind of fun. It sounds awesome. It sounds like that Golden Girls episode. It sounds like that Saved by the Bell episode.

I want to live both of them. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And also bang Zach Morris, but, you know. Don't make that face. You totally wanted to bang Zach Morris

back in the day. Well, I don't think that I wanted to bang him, but... What? Would you want to hold his hand? Yeah. Oh, okay.

Yeah. All right. Uh-huh. Just a little snuggles. Okay. A few smooches. We're really... We started this episode with an R rating.

Okay, I was like eight when I was into Zack Morris. I was not thinking of banging him. Okay, all right. I guess I was advanced with my thoughts of A.C. Slater. Ahead of the curve. I was in the Mensa of sexual thoughts. I actually wrote the newsletter. Okay.

So George wrote a booklet. Wait, did I mention the costumes? Yeah, there were costumes. All right. There were costumes. So many costumes. George wrote a booklet for Wait, did I mention the costumes? Yeah, there were costumes. Alright. There were costumes! So many costumes. George wrote a booklet for the event. It was titled Voodoo for Fun and Profit

A Mensa Murder Weekend Report. Investigators found out about this event and they were like holy shit, we have to get in there! Yeah, secretly though. We have to look like Mensa people. We have to wear costumes and disguises. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Thing was, though, only Mensa members could attend. So they had to join Mensa before they could go. Well, I mean, no one on the local police force qualified for Mensa. And they were sensitive about it. Okay, so here's what they have to do. They have to source Mensa members then and get them on their team. Evidently, it was much easier to get into this thing than you're thinking.

Okay. I was in the same boat. I was like, how do we do this? How do we fake the test? How do, you know, varsity blues? You just befriend a couple of lonely Mensa members. Yeah. No.

Okay. No. They decided that special agent Susan Gorick would be the ideal person to go undercover. In real life, she was a married mother of two and she was really good at blending in. So she'd done some undercover work. And I tell you what, people underestimate. Undercover sex worker? I don't think so. Oh, I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I was just curious. No, I think.

I guess I don't know. She could have been. No, I'm not saying she couldn't. My God. I heard she's super hot. I think you told me. And she looked like a thumb, actually. So hot.

No, so the thing they praised her for was like she's the type, she doesn't lose her cool. Yeah. She can just blend in. You don't really notice her and she's just picking up all the info. Okay. Don't you think George is going to notice someone at his event? Well, no, they want her to befriend him. Like this is a.

All right. Okay. Why don't I let you just tell the story? Yeah, they just don't want someone to be loud and be like, this is a... All right. Okay. They just don't want someone... Why don't I let you just tell the story? Yeah, they just don't want someone to be loud and be like, I don't know what an idiom is. You know, they don't want to get in there and, like, say something obvious. I'm the one who didn't know what an idiom was. I didn't know what it was either.

Oh, yeah, you didn't. But see, I'm okay with making fun of it. You know, the truth is I did know. I just didn't want you to feel... Right, you didn't want me to feel sad and less than. Yeah, I get it. So she showed up at the Holiday Inn with a fake name and a fake identity, ready to get all kinds of incriminating evidence against George Trapal.

This is her luring in the incriminating evidence. You can't see me, folks, but I'm gesturing. She looks like a mime who has an endless rope. Susan was now Sherry Gwynn, and she was new in town. She just moved to Florida from Texas. She was timid. Oh, kind of shy. She was trying desperately to separate from her abusive husband.

So she showed up at this event and met George right away, and he was friendly. He handed her the booklet he'd written for the event, and no shit, here's what part of the booklet said. Few voodooists believe they can be killed by psychic means, but not one doubts that he can be poisoned. When a death threat appears on the doorstep, prudent people throw out all their food and watch what they eat. Hardly anyone dies from magic. Most items on the doorstep are just a neighbor's way of saying,

I don't like you. Move or else. What the fuck? Right? He could have just put in there, I poisoned the cars. Hey, everybody, in there, I poisoned the cars. Hey, everybody, fun story. Guess what I did?

I poisoned my neighbors. Is this not the wildest thing? Yes! George, what are you doing? He's too proud. You think so? Yeah. Cocky.

Mm-hmm. Too arrogant? Yeah. Is that not? Is that what? Not where this is going? I don't know, Brandy. I'm still caught up on the fact that his wife was the breadwinner.

Nah, I can't get over it. None of us can. We, as a podcast community, are horrified. George and Sherry got to talking, and George mentioned that he and his wife were thinking of selling their house. They were maybe going to move. Were they? Mm-hmm. And Sherry was like, what a coincidence.

I'm in the market to buy a house. Maybe I should take a look. Mm-hmm. Also, what are your neighbors like? Do you like them? Ever tried to poison them? Yeah. She started playing it super cool.

Three casual questions. Hey, so I just heard about this thallium thing. What do you know about thallium? Have you ever put it in Coca-Cola and then crimped the bottle cap back on? Yeah, you got a bottle cap crimper by any chance? No, she was more subtle than that. Okay. They struck up a friendship, Brandy.

Susan actually kind of liked George. He was pleasant to talk to. He was very smart. He seemed to know kind of everything about everything. He was a little arrogant, but not too bad. They talked on the phone a bunch, but infuriatingly, George never said anything incriminating. Yeah. In fact, he never even mentioned the poisoning.

He just talked about his fucking cats and, like, how his day was going. So Sherry tried harder. She spent more time with him. Wait, her name is Sherry? A second ago, it was Susan. No, her real name is Susan. Her fake name is Sherry. Don't you get it? She's undercover, Brandi. Well, you called her real name is Susan. Her fake name is Sherry. Don't you get it?

She's undercover, Brandi. We called her Susan one second ago. Well, that was a different time. We're just going to call her either one. Okay. She's one and the same. Okay, Sharon is Susie. Susan.

Wait, Susan and Sherry. Sherry and Susan. We got it. Yeah. Same person. Don't worry about it. Just like that two-year-old grandchildren. Yes.

Yeah. Same person. Don't worry about it. Just like that two-year-old grandchildren. Yes. So Sherry slash Susan tried harder. They spent more time together. They went on picnics by Lake Martha. What?

What the fuck? What are you, anti-picnic? No. I actually am anti-picnic. I don't want to go on a picnic. Bugs. Yeah, I don't. But why are you making the face?

Well, again, I'm not super interested in a picnic either. Also, I don't want to go on a picnic. Bugs. Yeah, I don't. But why are you making the face? Well, again, I'm not super interested in a picnic either. Also, I don't know. It seems a little flirty. Sure. Okay. Sure. All right. As you mentioned earlier, I'm uncomfortable with flirting. You are.

But earlier you said that you were now kind of okay with it. Trying something new. Trying something new. It wasn't for me. Ditched it. All right. Goodbye. So, you know, they'd go on these picnics and she'd offer him a variety of different sodas to choose from. And guess what he always chose? Coke.

Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. He's a Coke man. He's a Coke man. Mm-hmm. They went to the Salvador Dali Museum. Is that a thing? Yeah.

In this part of Florida? I mean, maybe they had to travel a ways. I don't know. Go to it? I do, too. That sounds awesome. All right, calm down. We'll go.

Okay. First, we'll go on a picnic. I don't want to. I'll offer you a variety of sodas. Do you think there's a gift shop at the Salvador Dali Museum? There better be. You know what would be a great money-making scheme for me? I take you to a variety of museums that don't have gift shops.

But I open up my trench coat, and I've got all kinds of trinkets. Also, you're naked, which makes me uncomfortable. No, I would— So I have to shop very fast. I would be—you know what? Hey, maybe that could be a tactic. I'm fully nude. I'm like, everything must go.

And you're like, oh, you got to move fast. Those tits are not for sale. Don't mind the tinsel. Anyhow. Tinsel on your tits? No, on my bush, obviously. How are you going to put tinsel on tits? You told us you have nipple hair.

I tweeze those. I also don't have a bush. I just think bush is a funny word. Yeah. All right. Anyhow, people don't need to know this. They don't need to know about me. And yet now they do know it.

Your vegetation situation. Vegetation. Listen, it was wisps around my nipples, not shrubbery. Okay, I won't have you. I need one strand to do the tie-on method. Tie-on method? Of tinsel, yeah. Oh.

It doesn't stay very long, but I could do it. I need a few strands to do a bead. What if I wanted you to do that? Tinsel your bush? Yeah. Or your nips? My nips. My nips.

I think I can handle your nips. If you're like, okay, this would be really funny if like I do this tinsel as a joke and then I don't tell Norm and then I like take my shirt off and then I would do that.

What if? Let me just change it up a little. I'm not doing it as a joke. I'm very serious. I'm like, this is going to be hot as shit. Help me out. I'm less likely to help. You sure are. I'm way less likely to help.

You're down for the joke. I'm down for the joke but not for the joke. Is this hot? I don't... clean it out. You're down for the joke. I'm down for the joke, but not for the joke. Be like, ah, is this? Is it hot? I don't... Yeah. Yeah. It's on me, so obviously it's gonna be hot. What part of beads on my nipple hair...

Most people are turned on just thinking that. What part of tinsel tits doesn't sound hot to you? That's the problem. Hot new discord. Your hotness meter is broken. You don't even understand. Yep.

It's hot anymore. Yep. Anyway, you had been worried about the flirty nature, but he was actually very gentle and fatherly with Sherry. Oh. Yeah, I think that's kind of sweet, right? Yeah, but he killed his neighbor and poisoned two 16-year-old boys. Yeah, it's complicated. Okay.

He actually poisoned a lot of people because, like, it's the whole family had some amount. Yeah, they all have some amount. Okay. The man could talk for hours about, in my opinion, very boring shit. Yeah. Tim could talk for hours about, in my opinion, very boring shit. Yeah. One time they went on a walk through the woods and he stopped at a fern and told her its Latin name and why it was growing there and yada, yada, blah, blah.

And Sherry passed out from boredom. And when she came to, he was still talking about the fern. I'm pretty sure. That might be a slight exaggeration. I'm just saying I wouldn't be very good at this. It gave me flashbacks to that time my mom wanted to tell me in detail about deadheading. Deadhead your pansies. Good God. I have a succulent that I have to deadhead now.

Now you're going to talk to me about this shit? Talk to my mom. Call Sherry. I got this very cool succulent at Target. But the bottom, like, it keeps growing. It's gotten a lot bigger since I purchased it. But as the new

leaves grow at the top, the bottom leaves die and they just wilt and then you touch them and they come right off. Sorry. And that's how I deadhead my succulent. Are you burning up? It's warm in here. Should we turn on the fan or is it going to make a big to-do?

Oh, your eyes are going to get all watery. It's going to be great. It's fine. It's fine. It's going to be so good. Everyone, when Brandi says it's fine, it's fine in a really high-pitched voice, it's not going to be fine. My eyes are very sensitive to fans. I bet when you got that driver's license photo today, you told the lady, it's fine.

Yeah, it's fine. No, she literally, like, she handed it to me folded up. She knew how bad this picture was. Okay, why not do a gallows. Why not just say, let's retake your picture real quick. Was it going to take two seconds? I know you can't do a million. There was no one else in line either.

Yeah. No one wants to be shot from that angle. I'm telling you, that's how bad the picture is. The woman folded it up. Yeah. As she handed it to me. And she said, that's how bad the picture is. The woman folded it up as she handed it to me. And she said, let's pretend this didn't happen. Did she slide it across the table? Yes! That lady is bad.

And she let me keep my old driver's license for the memories. Really? That's what she said. I think she meant more because I was doing a name change. She doesn't know the whole... I didn't tell her my whole life story. But you brought all the documents in case she wanted your whole life story.

I did. She didn't ask for any of them. And you had followed all the rules. I did. I followed every rule. I got so many documents already. She didn't look at any of them. I could be fucking anybody walking in there getting that driver's license.

I'm going to get Kim Kardashian to walk in there and get my driver's license picture taken for me. Yeah. Because I'm such good friends with Kim K. Maybe that was part of her trick. Like, technically, yeah, you could be anybody. But with that picture, you're not going to try. Nobody. Like, technically, yeah, you could be anybody. But with that picture, you're not going to try. She knew.

This woman's not showing this picture to anybody. Turn the fucking fan off. I will survive. I got Kleenex here if my eyes start watering. All right. Thank you, Brandy. You're a good woman. here if my eyes start watering. All right.

Thank you, Brandy. You're a good woman. Even though George seemed gentle and passive, Sherry never let her guard down. She always kept a close eye on her food. If they were at a restaurant and she got up, she wouldn't finish what was on her plate when she got back. This is how I'd die. Because you would just come back and eat it. You wouldn't even think about it.

I'd forget. I would know, like, I'm not supposed to. Ah, damn it. Damn wouldn't even think about it. I'd forget. I would know, like, I'm not supposed to. Ah, damn it. Damn it, that chicken looked good. What, am I supposed to just leave those three bites of chicken there? I'd just piss my pants so that I could finish my Diet Coke. So they had this friendship, but it wasn't really going anywhere. It wasn't really doing anything for the investigation.

Yeah, she wasn't getting anywhere. Yeah. She was just learning so much about ferns. The investigators were getting a little frustrated because this undercover job was supposed to last for a few weeks. And instead, it was stretching out into eight months. Amazing. In my opinion, things got a little ridiculous. months. Amazing. In my opinion, things got a little ridiculous. So the profilers had said that the poisoner would be very intelligent and very passive. Yeah. If the poisoner got mad,

he'd be indirect about it. So they set up this thing. I know. To intentionally make him mad? Yeah. You see how he handled it? Yeah. So bizarre. So remember, Sherry is trying to escape her abusive husband. Yeah. Okay, right. Okay, so they set up this thing where Sherry introduced George to her abusive husband. And the abusive husband, of course, was just an undercover officer who was there acting like a douchebag. Yeah. And at one point, George stood behind him and pretended to push him down a flight of stairs.

But he never directly confronted him. Okay. So that's that story. Okay. Yeah, it's completely useless. Yeah. What? I know.

I think they're just trying everything. Yeah. Right? They just really have nothing on George. Truly nothing. Yeah. Right? They just really have nothing on George. Truly nothing. Finally, George and Diana announced that they were going to move about 40 miles away to Sebring, Florida. They moved in. I love their convertibles.

I knew you'd say it. You didn't disappoint. Not one bit, Brandy. Well done. Thank you. They moved in November of 1989. And in December of that year, they let their new friend, Sherry, rent their house from them. Oh!

Okay, here we go. Here we go. Sherry's on the inside now. Yep. Okay. Yeah, this was huge. They finally had a break in the case. Investigators were thrilled because now they could search the property and they didn't need a warrant because Sherry, a.k.a. Susan, was a tenant.

Yeah. I don't like it. Yeah, that seems wrong. They swarmed the place. They collected a bunch of stuff and sent it off for testing. In the meantime, Sherry met up with George. It was time to put the pressure on him. They met outside at what looked to be a picnic table. And here's how that conversation went.

Sherry. I think you neglected to tell me something. George. Oh, what's that? Sherry. That something had happened in the neighborhood. I had a lot of well-meaning people scare me out of my wits. George. Oh, yeah, somebody got poisoned next door, so, uh, Sherry, that might not be a lot to you, but it's a lot to me. might not be a lot to you, but it's a lot to me. And George says, oh, well, I'm sorry. Sherry, you weren't afraid, were you? George, no. Apparently it was some sort of personal vendetta. I mean, it's not like they're running around poisoning everybody.

Okay. What do you make of that? okay what do you make of that um i mean i think he answered it fairly well it doesn't doesn't raise a ton of red flags i don't think okay i completely agree yeah they they're big on like whoa hold on a second the crime hadn't been solved how did he know was a personal vendetta? But it's like, it's a poisoning. It's a poisoning. So, of course it's personal. Yeah, I don't think that's particularly...

So I don't think this is a smoking gun at all. Sherry told him that investigators had been looking for him at the house. Here's how that conversation went. George. The only reason they could be interested in me, of course, would, um, Sherry. And they didn't tell me what it was in reference to. George. Oh, of course, they wouldn't. What I'm doing is just working through various possibilities, so leave me alone for a minute. me alone for a minute. Sherry. Okay. I'm sorry. George. If they're interested in me, it would be because of probably the poisoning next door a few years ago, which just because I lived in the area,

I might be a suspect. I hope I'm not a prime suspect. That could be messy. I mean, that's slightly more, but still not much of anything I agree yeah I agree she tries to make a big deal about like he was he was irritable in this conversation and yeah you can hear that yeah sure but I mean I don't know you you hear that investigators are looking for you like that would be that would unsettle me. Yeah, it would absolutely unsettle me. I've never done anything and I think I would react to that very much like George did. Haven't you done some illegal shit in your day?

No. You know way too much about meth, I'll tell you that for sure. I don't know anything about meth, apparently. You're like, this guy was doing this in the 70s. I didn't start until 95. After that meeting, the test results came in on the items that investigators had taken from George's house. A bottle they'd found in a workbench in his garage contained small traces of thallium. That was all they needed.

Investigators took off to George and Diana's new house in Sebring, capital of the convertible, to make the arrest. Diana answered the door, fatly. And loudly! And loudly. And domineeringly. And shrilly. And just your dollars just hanging from her. Not feminine at all. Does Donna know? Diana. Sorry, her name's not Donna. Her name's Diana. Her name is Diana. Does Donna know?

Diana. Sorry, her name's not Donna. Her name's Diana. Her name is Diana. Does she know what? That George did this? They planted it together? I don't know.

Or George did this on his own? I don't know. Okay. Well, you do know because you investigated this. So flirty. Well, you didn't investigate it. You researched it. I am Sherry.

I am the one who fell asleep. Hold up the mask right now. It'd be amazing. I am Sherry. I am the one who fell asleep. If you pulled off a mask right now, it would be amazing. I fell asleep listening to the fern conversation. Okay, so I think this is interesting. They show up to the door. Diana answers it. I assume this is in the morning.

It seems like they always do these things in the morning to catch you off guard. They know you're home. And George was at the top of the stairs in nothing but a pair of blue bikini underwear. Really? Yeah. It's kind of embarrassing for him. Maybe he's comfortable in his bikini underwear. Maybe he looked hot as hell. That's possible, too.

The officers told George that he was under arrest, and he responded, OK, is it OK if I put some clothes on? And then he came back downstairs in a more formal pair of bikini underwear. You're set up. No, I just—they mention this in a couple places, and I don't know. I'm kind of like, if you show up to someone's house really early in the morning,

yeah, you might... It feels to me like they... You're going to find me in my most revealing sweatpants. Yeah, I mean, you're never catching Brandy naked. But I mean, like, it feels like they're mentioning this to embarrass him and I just don't think this needs... Yeah. They even mention, like, it feels like they're mentioning this to embarrass him. And I just don't think this needs.

Yeah. They even mentioned, like, we tell him he's under arrest and he says, OK, is it OK if I put some clothes on? Like, that doesn't seem that weird to me. No, I don't think it's weird at all. That priority one would be like, I don't want to be walked out of here in bikini underwear. All right. Okay. Is that an 80s thing?

I don't think a lot of dudes wear bikini underwear anymore. It's my barometer on what dudes are wearing for undies just way off. Well, that can't be the case because you're always Googling what are dudes wearing for undies these days. I thought the majority of people were kind of doing a boxer brief situation. That's kind of where my yardstick is. I don't know that George was like the most up on style. They described him as kind of an aging hippie. Oh, okay. Sure.

I think that tracks. Yeah. Okay. All right. So he comes down in his tuxedo t-shirt and his bikini underwear. Got it. Investigators searched George and Diana's new home and they found... Thallium.

A lot of stuff. Uh-huh. But you know what? I think we should break for an ad before I tell you about it. Oh, okay. Doodaloo. And we're back from the ad. Okay, are you ready to hear about what they found in George and Diana's new home?

Yes. Okay, they found a bunch and Diana's new home. Yes. Okay. They found a bunch of chemicals in different containers. They found a binder of photocopied pages from a book titled Poison Detection in Human Organs. Oh, boy. Okay. You don't have that in your home? I don't.

I'm also not a doctor. True. Yeah. True. The book contained a section on thallium, and George's fingerprints were all over the pages. Okay. That's pretty good. I think that's decent evidence.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Investigators also found a hidden room in the basement. Oh, yeah? What was in there? Nothing much. It was heavily insulated. Uh-huh.

Very insulated. And all the windows had been covered, sealed actually. We got like a lab situation down there? I'd like to tell you more about the room before you decide that this is a lab. Okay. Personally, I don't think the sanitation station is going to be up to snuff for a lab. In this room, there was a wooden table. It had stirrups.

Oh. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Looked pretty homemade. You're going to get a splinter from this thing. I guarantee it. Does he have a sex dungeon? They found bondage items.

He has a sex dungeon! They found bondage items. He has a sex dungeon! Gags and weeps. None of this stuff mentioned Diana being kinky. This was clearly a torture chamber. Oh, not a sex dungeon? It's obviously a torture chamber, and that's how it was presented to the media, and that's how the media treated it. I mean, that's a bit of a jump. We don't think that they're just into some bondage play, that this is two consenting adults who are into BDSM?

No, torture for sure. What makes them so sure? They're pretty sure. Super sure. How? just got a feeling just got a feeling all right you know that feeling when you walk into a hidden room in a basement you're like this doesn't feel like a lab or like a bdsm sex dungeon this is just total torture chamber. Torture chamber. Okay. What? Well, that's such a different direction than what he's been accused of. Right.

It kind of has nothing to do with. Very much has nothing to do with. Mm-hmm. Okay. Brandy, I don't like the look on your face right now. This guy is bad, horrible. He poisons and he's obviously torturing a bunch of people. I think he might just be into bondage sex. And like if he has a consenting partner.

Then who gives a shit? Yeah, exactly. I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah. I am concerned about the splinter situation. I am very concerned. But I would not jump to this being a torture chamber.

Yeah. All right. Okay. Okay. On April 7th, 1990, George Trapal was charged with first-degree murder, six counts of attempted first-degree murder, seven counts of poisoning first-degree murder, seven counts of poisoning food or water, and one count of tampering with a consumer product. The prosecution sought the death penalty.

Whoa! Well, look at all he did! Not to mention the torture chamber. No, the torture chamber is a sex dungeon and has nothing to do with the case. Okay. Uh-oh. Brandy's on a journey. Brandy's on a big journey here, folks. Okay, here's where I'm at right now. Okay.

You were so sure. George poisoned these people. I'm fairly certain. Alright. I'm fairly certain he poisoned the Carr family. Alright. I'm fairly certain he poisoned the Carr family. Okay. They don't have a lot of evidence against

him. Did you hear about the blue bikini underwear? I did. I heard about that and the fat wife and how she makes all the money. Heard all the stuff. Yeah. I heard it all. Yeah, I'm pretty convinced that George is the one who did this. Don't love the evidence they

have. There's not a lot. And I'm seeking the death penalty? Right. Right. Oh boy. I've got some concerns. And also somehow lumping the sex

dungeon into this is very concerning. Yeah. It's really alarming to me that this could get out in the media. Yeah. I think it just is so it's so unfair. Yeah. George's friends were stunned. They said he was a peaceful man.

He was a Buddhist. They'd seen him take bugs out of the house rather than squish them. He couldn't have done this. And the torture chamber, they were like, have you heard of S&M? Welcome to the 90s, bitches. That's what they said. For the record, even Peggy's son, Dwayne, was surprised. He didn't think George was capable of killing his mother.

He said, you know, he might be a little weird, he might be a little nerdy, but he's not a killer. George hired a father-son defense team, which I think we can all agree is very cute. And they took a real issue with this idea that George had been weird when investigators first spoke to him. Not making eye contact, having dry mouth, being a little fidget this idea that George had been weird when investigators first spoke to him. Mm-hmm. Not making eye contact, having dry mouth, being a little fidgety. That was just George. Yeah. That was how he was all the time.

And you'd know that if you had more than one conversation with him. Mm-hmm. The evidence against George was all circumstantial. Yeah. Brandy, are you okay? It seems like you're suffering from some dry mouth yourself. My mouth is a little dry, actually. Thank you for asking. Are you all out of Cokes?

I don't have a single Coke. Uh-oh. The truth was, George's attorneys were worried about how a jury would perceive him. He was a little odd. worried about how a jury would perceive him. He was a little odd. And maybe the jury would hear about this guy who was super smart and only hung out with other super smart people and instantly dislike him. So they had that to deal with. And they also had the issue of agreeing on a defense strategy. Yeah, what is the strategy here? Okay. George's defense team really wanted to point out at trial that basically all the prosecution's evidence against George could just as easily be applied to Diana. Absolutely.

She was a doctor. She had degrees in chemistry. She'd gotten into a shouting match with the cars a few days before Peggy fell ill. Yes. She was just as good a suspect. Yeah. But George was adamant. He did not want his defense team to disparage his wife.

No. All right. He wanted to keep her out of this. So the lawyers reluctantly agreed. Meanwhile, Diana defended her husband to the media. She pointed out that the only physical evidence that they had against him was that thallium bottle. But it had been found in their unlocked garage. It had been found four months after they'd moved out.

She said they didn't find any fingerprints on it. Anybody could have put it there. It could have been planted there. Absolutely. Oh, no. She was like, I don't think that garage has been locked in 20 years. Oh, no. She was like, I don't think that garage has been locked in 20 years. Oh, no. Remember that thing I said earlier about making the evidence fit the crime?

I don't. Refresh my memory. That's concerning. Okay. Well, you heard about all that incriminating stuff, right? There's just not much here. I completely agree. I do. I mean, I get it. I do think that he looks good for it.

I mean, it's almost a no shit situation. Yes. When you look at, okay, it's someone who definitely knew the post office system. It had to be someone nearby. I mean, I think it's one of those frustrating situations where it's like, okay, he for sure did this. Yeah. But you have to have something. You have evidence to prove it.

You have to have something. You can't just go seeking the death penalty. Oh, but you can. Yeah, I know. And it's fucking Florida, so I bet they get it. Let's find out, shall we? Let's. George's trial started in January of 1991.

In his opening statement, Prosecutor John Aguera told the jury that they were going to hear the story of a brilliant man who was so arrogant that he thought he could get away with poisoning people. Yes, this was a circumstantial case, but the jury needed to use their common sense to determine that George Trapal was responsible for this crime. The defense argued that George's crime was just being eccentric. There wasn't much actual evidence here. The bottle with the thallium traces didn't prove anything. Someone else could have put it there. You couldn't even prove that it had been used to poison those cokes. Right.

The defense pointed to Pai Carr as a suspect who'd been too quickly glossed over. They said that... Brandy spent a lot of time on him. Yeah, Brandy spent plenty of time on him. Also, I hate that I just referred to myself in the third person. It can't be cut. It can't be edited out. They said that the investigators on this case had unfairly zeroed in on George and they put so much manpower into this case and into George specifically as a suspect that they'd made it fit. That's the noise. Yeah, when you put too much manpower. I think this is totally true.

It is true. They did undercover. Eight months of undercover. And then they had the agent move into the house? Yeah. I mean, move into, did she really move in there or was that all a ruse? She went too deep. Boy, oh my gosh. All right.

Yeah, I don't. The prosecution had a lot to present. They showed the jury the bottle from the garage. FBI chemist Roger Martz testified that thallium nitrate had been added to the Coke bottles and that a white powder found in a bottle in George's garage contained thallium nitrate. That bottle only contained thallium nitrate. No other drug residues were present. Special Agent Susan Gorick testified about her time undercover. Brandy is smirking, but I'm ignoring it. The prosecution presented video surveillance from the conversation she had with George about the poisoning. They presented the booklet that George wrote for the Mensa murder mystery weekend. They presented the post-it note.

Oh my God, a post-it note. Yes, it's a post-it note. They presented the binder they discovered filled with information on poison and its effect on the human body. The prosecution called the doctors who treated the Carr family. They called other members of the family who could attest to how badly Peggy and Travis and Duane had suffered. They called the DEA agent who'd arrested George for amphetamines all those years ago. Okay, but... What? Isn't that another excuse for him having the thallium? He's previously been arrested and... Well, I guess he was just, he wasn't cooking then. I don't think you're necessarily allowed to just have this hanging around. Well, no, of course you're not.

But, no, I'm not saying it's legal that he had it. I'm saying that's a defense angle that could be like. Yeah, he's cooking meth. He's cooking meth. He's not murdering people. He's cooking meth. Or he was previously and he didn't realize that that was left in a drawer in a garage. But I actually think that, you know, there's not even any proof that that ever actually was there when we lived there is a better argument.

So, yeah. That DEA agent said that thallium nitrate can be used in the production of meth. They called in a guy named David Warren, who'd been George's partner in the meth production, and he testified that George had been their chemist. Witnesses talked about animosity between the Karrs and the Turpals. One guy who did lawn work for them said that George made threats against the Karr children on several occasions. One time they ran motorcycles through his yard and George said, I'm going to kill you. ran motorcycles through his yard, and George said, I'm going to kill you.

The prosecution also addressed the argument that the defense made about Pi Carr being a viable suspect. They talked about how Pi worked in phosphate mines and that thallium is not used in phosphate mines, so he would have no knowledge of it. Plus, he'd been poisoned with it. Doctors testified that anyone who knew even the slightest thing about thallium would not ingest it. The defense called no witnesses. Instead, they made their case by cross-examining the prosecution's witnesses. They made, I mean, a little headway with Travis. In a pretrial deposition, he'd said

he remembered buying the eight pack of Coke. Okay. But on the stand, he said, no, I don't think I did. And really, he could have been confused, which is a known effect of thallium poisoning. Wow. Yeah, it can cause hallucinations. Yeah. I don't know. I don't think that's anything. When it came time for closing arguments, the defense was not feeling good. They knew that George didn't want them to mention Diana,

but they felt they had to. It was in their client's best interest. So in their closing statement, they asked the jury to consider the possibility that Diana could have done this. Yeah. The jury went into deliberation, and they found George guilty on all counts. Yep.

So they moved on to the penalty phase. Would he get the death penalty? Or just life in prison? Florida law at the time was a little different than it is now. At the time, the jury's decision on the death penalty didn't need to be unanimous. You just, I know, I know. It does have to be unanimous now. Now that they should still have the death penalty at all, but that's a different conversation. Okay. Yeah. You just need a majority. Oh boy. Also, Florida was one of the few states where a jury could make a recommendation.

And in a capital case like this, the judge didn't necessarily have to follow the recommendation. So the sentencing phase was interesting. The prosecution called the neurologist, Dr. Richard Hosler, to talk about the pain that Peggy had experienced as she died. It was terrible. What a terrible way to die. Absolutely. And he was the only witness called to testify. George had friends who were willing to testify to his character, but the defense didn't want to call them because if they had brought out character witnesses, then the prosecution would have been allowed to present testimony about the torture chamber and tell stories about how in the 70s George had put drugs and baked goods and given them to unsuspecting people. And they were like, this just isn't worth it. No, it's not. So the jury went back into deliberation

and they voted nine to three in favor of the death penalty. A guy named Robert Wall was on the jury and he was one of the three people who voted against the death penalty. And he later said, this was all circumstantial evidence. Now, don't get me wrong. It all pointed to George Trapal. But there was no concrete evidence that he'd done it. The evidence was all that he could do it. And he was probably the only one.

And that probably was a big word that stood out for me. Oh my gosh, this is so concerning to me. It's super concerning to me because I hear that and I'm like, okay, well, then it sounds like you didn't even think he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So how did we even get to this point? Probably sounds like reasonable doubt.

Yes. Oh boy. On March 6th? You probably did it, but there's nothing concrete. Yeah. Which, you don't need concrete. You don't. You don't.

I do agree with that. But you need something semi-solid. I thought you weren't going to talk about poop anymore. I didn't. You brought it up. Oh, my God. I've done such a great job. The hero of the podcast.

Jeez. On March 6th, 1991. I'm so sorry. I just took the loudest drink ever. That's all right. I'll take a loud drink as well. On March 6th, 1991, Judge Dennis Maloney sentenced George Trapal to death by electric chair. Oh, my gosh.

George, of course, appealed. And, you know, that's always a long, tedious process. So I'm just going to hit the high points. So in 1996, he appealed on grounds of ineffective counsel because his trial attorneys hadn't focused on other suspects. But that got denied. Yeah. Then in 1990s. Oh, I shouldn't. I didn't write this part down. OK. It was mentioned later in a book that Georgia's defense attorneys at this first trial were under the impression that they couldn't bring up more stuff about Pi Carr. Hmm.

So they didn't. And the judge was like, no, you totally could have. What the hell are you talking about? What gave them that impression? I don't know. Well, that does sound like ineffective counsel. It sure does. But again, it's like if the argument is they didn't bring up other suspects, well, no,

they brought them up in the opening argument and closing argument two different suspects yeah so that got denied yeah then in 1997 a whistleblower came forward talking about big flaws in the fbi crime lab the justice department looked into it and discovered that, sure enough, the FBI lab had done some really shitty work between 1985 and 1995. Uh-oh. Roger Martz had been the FBI chemist who testified at George's trial, and the Justice Department's report stated that some of his work in George's case had been inaccurate. Oh, shit. In fact, they described some of his work as, quote, particularly disturbing. The fuck does that mean?

So, at an appeal hearing in 1999, George's defense attorneys had Roger Martz read a letter of censure that he received, attorneys had Roger Martz read a letter of censure that he received, which criticized his work in this case and another little known case called the O.J. Simpson case. Don't know if you heard about it. Wow. OK, so this had to be embarrassing because the letter essentially said you suck. You didn't do all the proper tests. Your trial testimony was overstated. P.S.

We're transferring you from the FBI lab to the FBI field office. Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you. Yeah, that is where you get that in an official work letter. That's right. Not email. Essentially, the Justice Department investigation found that Roger didn't perform the tests necessary to reach the conclusions that he reached. And specifically, he shouldn't have said that the bottle in the garage contained only thallium nitrate and no other drug residues. Because he only tested for thallium nitrate, probably, and did not test for anything else. Yeah.

Yeah. This issue ended up going all the way to the Florida Supreme Court. But in March of 2003, they denied George's request for a new trial. They, I, oh, I, everybody, I wish you could see Brandy's face right now. They acknowledged that Roger's testimony had been fucked up, but said it wasn't enough to warrant a new trial. Oh boy. Okay. Okay. but said it wasn't enough to warrant a new trial. Oh, boy.

Okay. Okay. This is what pisses me off in these cases with a bunch of circumstantial evidence, is even if you find something flawed in that mashup of circumstantial evidence, usually when it gets to appeals, they're like, well, you know, who's to say this is the straw that broke. It's all the things together. I completely agree. So, yes, if one is taken out, you do have to relook at the whole thing.

It's fucking Jenga. Yes. They took a block out. Yes. You don't know. It could have crumbled the whole thing. And I think this was the only evidence. Well, not the only. But I mean think this was the only evidence against him. Well, not the only.

But, I mean, this was, this feels like a really big piece. But don't worry. Everybody's pretty sure they got the right guy. Well, yeah. I'm also pretty sure it's him. But, like, we're talking about someone's fucking life. Right. Right. Holy shit. The undercover detective Susan Goric teamed up

with a writer from the St. Petersburg Times to write a book titled The True Story of the Mensa Murderer and the Policewoman Who Risked Her Life to Bring Him to Justice. And I'd like to read you an excerpt from that book. Okay. You don't look excited, but you're going to get excited. Okay. An undercover investigation is like a play. There are lines to write, scenes to memorize, sets to erect and tear down. For every word uttered on stage, there are a hundred spoken in planning, rehearsing, and getting into character. And always, looming in the background, there is peril. If Susan botched her role, if her audience saw through her words to the underlying truth, there would not be a critical review in the newspaper the next day. There would be an obituary.

Okay. I've decided that I'd like to write about my life this way. Okay. My concern is how long it would take to masturbate while writing. It is very grandiose. It's... Yeah, I mean, now, this is not nothing.

No, it's not nothing. But you went on picnics. You went to everyone's dream weekend with the Mensa folks. Now, you did learn about that fern, and that sucks. That's terrible. Yeah. We all felt bad for her during that part. We felt terrible.

Yeah. But, like, calm down. Yeah. So George Trapal remains on death row all of his appeals have been unsuccessful diana and george divorced in 1996 she died in 2018 pie car died in 2020 and that is the story of the Coca-Cola poisonings. Holy shit. Okay. I think they rolled Pykar out way too easily.

I don't think he did it. I don't either. But to me. I did for a while, though. And I do feel bad about that. Well, I just don't. Their reasons for taking him off the list are weird to me. Saying anyone who knows anything about it wouldn't ingest even the slightest bit.

Well, people do dumb shit all the time. They sure do. The other thing about, well, he loved his son too much. I'm sorry. I've heard too many brandy cases in my life. I know weird men do this shit to their families sometimes. Yeah. I'm very concerned about the evidence they have in this case

and that they got not only a conviction but a death sentence. Yeah. I know it sounds weird because I do think a lot of this points to him. But I I don't know. I feel bad for him because so much of like him just striking the officers as just an odd guy. Yeah. Well, and I I know this is like, this is not fair to say this is not based in anything, but when I hear, okay, he's highly intelligent. I know, you're smiling at me. He's on the spectrum, right?

He might be on the spectrum. And so this stuff that you're saying is like so weird. I know exactly what you're going with that. I feel like maybe not. Maybe that's just how he's wired. Yeah, so bonus episode, but I covered the Sam Shepard case on there I feel like maybe not. Maybe that's just how he's wired. Yeah. So bonus episode, but I covered the Sam Shepard case on there.

And that's what a lot of people's take on him is. So people really like police really zeroed in on him because of the way he spoke about his murder and stuff. He spoke in a strange way. Yes. And like now people look at that case and they're like, sounds like he was on the spectrum. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, I wonder so much about if this were to take place today.

Mm-hmm. I would really hope, especially the stuff about the torture chamber. Come the fuck on. It's just like kinky sex. Yeah. And as long as you have a willing partner, like a consenting partner, that's not, there's nothing wrong with that. Well, and they had, they did such a deep dive into this guy. I really think if he had tortured people, they would have figured that out.

They would know about it. Yes. The fact that they didn't find anything like that, to me, says it was probably just him and his wife. Yeah. Or maybe just consenting. Who knows? Who knows? Who knows what those freaks were into?

I think we should lock them all up, though, don't you? Don't you agree? I don't. I don't. Not here to kink shame. Yeah. Wow. There you go.

Wow. I know. I find this one really disturbing. Yeah. So do I. First of all, it's a horrible way to die. Oh, my gosh. I just cannot.

Oof. The feeling like she was burning from the inside is. Well, and you and I both know the joy of going to a hospital and the doctor's going. It's probably all in your head. To which we say, It doesn't sound real to us. To which we say, it's probably all in your butt. Yeah. And they're like, oh, shit.

And then they cry and run away. Next time you should try and say that it's all in their nuts and see what happens then. I do wonder, what if I just got real weird with it? Yeah. Would they be like, this bitch is crazy. We're putting her on a 72-hour hold. Not only is she making up the pages,

and she's so crazy. Oh, Lord, Brandi, should we take some questions from our Discord? Yes, we shall. To get in the Discord, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level or

higher. And then when we record, we ask for questions and we answer a few. And you were having a little stumbelina moment. Oh, I got distracted by that beautiful picture of you in the Discord. Everyone, since Brandy wouldn't show me the picture of her driver's license, I tried to do my

own imitation. And someone screenshotted it. It's a real flattering angle on me. Real cute. Oh, my God. So cute. It looks Photoshopped, doesn't it? It does.

It looks like that can't possibly be something that really happened. But, oh, it happened, baby. Oh, it happened. Too easily, I might add. Blasphemy! What? Les Lemon says, Brandy, I got taboo from Target and they got rid of the buzzer. Yeah, probably because of you.

You probably ruined it for them. It's literally like a dog toy with a squeaker now. What the fuck? I mean, that's probably for the best. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, my God. Oh, it's for the best? Do you think people can't handle the buzzer? mean, that's probably for the best. I'm sorry. Oh, it's for the best? You think people can't handle the buzzer? Well, I know you can't. We've gotten so soft these days we can't handle a buzzer.

A little buzzer. Kristen. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. This is feeling kind of Fox News-y. Brandi's going to go off on cancer culture. Very Fox News-y there. Well, I mean, like, you don't have to replace batteries on a sweet toy. That is nice.

That is nice. But, yeah, you're upset because you enjoy ramming the buzzer in your sister's face and going, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, way less effective if I jam a dog toy in her face and it goes, Although you would enjoy that. I would, but just not the same way.

Oh, okay. Amy on the MTA says, hi, I'm a late driver and finally just got my license and my first car. Any recommendations for things I should keep in my car besides a bed, bath and beyond bag? Of course, for context,

I'm 35 and in Massachusetts. Okay. What does Amy need in their car? Mints, obviously. We just talked about this. Car mints. On the bonus episode. Car mints. Car mints are a necessity. Kleenexes. I feel like

you're always looking for a Kleenex when you're in the car. Kleenex and napkins. Napkins in case that Bed, Bath, & Beyond situation happens. Yeah. A flashlight. And a fleshlight. No, just a fleshlight.

And a blanket. And a first aid kit. A slanket. A slanket in the car? Sure. You drive with it on? Yeah. No, you get too cozy.

You might nod off at the wheel. That's true. Yeah, I don't think those are safe for driving. That's why you get nipple clamps. So you're more... Really out there on that one. She asked for both of our opinions on this. That is true.

Okay. That's true. All right. I'm not making fun of your suggestions. You're right. You're right. You're an ice scraper. You need an ice scraper in there.

Umbrella. You need an umbrella. Yeah. I think we ice scraper in there. Umbrella. You need an umbrella. Yeah. I think we've covered it. Yeah. I have a delightful car cup holder extender. Oh, so do I. To fit my awala in my car because it's too big for the regular cup holder.

Yeah. If you like a big boy Bev, you're going to have to get a big boy cup holder extender. Right. Yeah. Maybe. Also, I think that the back window of your car needs an LGTC sticker on it, obviously. Oh, wow. Business cat.

She's a business cat. She can't be stopped. Okay. Fellow. Oh, where'd it go? I just jumped a mile. Uh-oh. Fellow never nude wants to know.

Question. After hearing today's episode, we talked about fairs and fair food. Yes. Okay. I have been attending the local fair since I can remember, and my husband and I recently brought my two-year-old daughter, yes or no, to the following treats we devoured that day. Please don't judge the abundance. No judgment here. Okay.

Number one. Foot-long hot dog with all the fixings. It sounds delicious. Absolutely. Wonderful. A crispy spiral potato that was basically one enormous curly chip. So I'm- It sounds great.

Yeah, it also sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. Like a mix between a potato chip and a curly fry. Fuck yeah, I'm in for that. I'm very excited about that. Yes. Okay.

Three is mini warm cinnamon sugar donuts. Oh shit. Okay, great. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Three is mini warm cinnamon sugar donuts. Oh, shit. Okay. Great. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm on board for all of these so far. Keep going. This is where my fellow never loses me. I knew that eventually you'd have to drop off. Dill pickle poutine topped with deep fried pickles. Hell yeah. You would eat that. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I don't want the pickles. I'd eat the poutine. But... You know, it's got like a gravy on it. Yeah. You would eat that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I don't want the pickles. I'd eat the poutine. You know, it's got like a gravy on it. Yeah, I like gravy sometimes. Not really. Brandy, you're trying to be cool here. I was trying to be cool.

I can do a little. I can do a small amount of gravy. And then immediately throw it up. I'd pick a corner fry that has very little on it. Brandy, you don't have to force this. Wait, doesn't poutine have cheese curds on top of it? I want a fucking cheese curd. Oh, great.

So you'd get your dirty fingers in the... Yeah. Oh, boy. And five, corn on the cob on a stick. I'd tear that shit up. Absolutely. Yeah. All right.

So I'm here for all but the deep fried pickle poutine. But she is going to pretend like she'd do some of it. I would eat a couple of nearly naked fries around the edge. I'm not going for the one in the middle that's just been doused in gravy. Like, that's not my move at all. Ooh, True Crime and Taco Bell asks, Brandy, what recent-ish Disney movie do you think Kristen would actually enjoy if you pinned her down to watch it? I think you've actually seen the one that I would say that you would like.

What? Turning Red. Did you see that? With the red panda? Oh, brought out too many feelings. I mean, yeah. Generational trauma. Which actually, in Contra, very similar vibes.

Generational trauma. Yeah. So it's funny. Even though I don't watch a lot of movies, I'm actually kind of caught up on a lot of kids' movies because of my niece and nephew. Yeah. And if they want to watch a movie, I am down for it. Yeah.

I have watched fucking Ice Age, Collision, whatever. I've never seen that. Twice now. I have my own children. I've never seen that. Well, Henry is obsessed with Ice Age. Yeah. That makes sense. Wait, is that the one that has the dinosaurs?

Sure is. Yeah, that absolutely makes sense because he loves dinosaurs. You want to watch it? You want to watch it? Come on. No, thank you. I don't want to watch it again either. But he's so cute. Yes. Okay, and True Crime and Taco Bell has

a question for you to follow up. Oh, all right. Kristen, what food do you think Brandy would actually enjoy if she'd just try it? Oh. Oh, my God. So many. She's. Everyone, I just want to tell you, I haven't even named a food and she's already making faces.

No, I think, so it's not that I can think of a specific food. It's more like, hey, for the next three weeks, you're going to try a little bite of this every day. Okay, I try stuff, though. I tried fucking popcorn salad for this podcast. I barfed twice. Well, I also tried it. Why is my mic askew? I don't know.

Because you're not the best in the biz. Okay. That's unnecessary. I try stuff sometimes. I know, but I'm saying I think your natural thing is you try it, you don't like it, and then you never try it again. Yeah, for the most part. Yeah, so I think it's like some stuff is an acquired taste. So you just have to try a little and then, oh my gosh, everyone, she made her mouth into the tightest little butthole you ever did see.

I don't want to do it. That's okay. I'm not going to make you do anything. I'm just saying if there was like, if I had to, that's how I'd do it. Okay. And you'd be a big fucking baby about it. I would be. I would be.

Will you call me Chip? Says if you had the power to rule the world and make the prohibition of one of your pet peeves a law, what would it be? And the question has disappeared because it was the next part that I really wanted. What? Somebody just submitted a question. Does rape count as a pet peeve? No. Pam, that's already against the law. Oh, that's right. No, that's already against the law. That's right.

No. I'm sorry. I was thinking of like a magical. An example that Brandy might say, let's stop putting dressings on food automatically. Yes, that would absolutely be my answer. Sauces on the side. No, the world would be a worse place. Let me sauce my own shit.

Or not sauce my own shit. Or not sauce my own shit. As I see fit. Wow. Yeah. No, rape is already against the law. It's not a pet peeve. I'm annoyed by it. Oh, no.

What would I? Okay. I have your answer. What is it? Is it gum? Gum chewing would be illegal. No, I like occasional gum chewing. No, I? Okay. I have your answer. What is it? Is it gum? Gum chewing would be illegal. No, I like occasional gum chewing. Oh, well.

No, you don't. No, I prefer mint. Okay. Yeah, let's get rid of gum chewing. If I can't rid the world of rape, I'll rid the world of gum. If only they would make rape a crime. I misunderstood the question. I thought it was like, I just make a rule and boom this thing's

done just can't be done anymore oh boy katherine wants to know how many openings does a straw have one or two this has caused a very heated debate between me and my coworkers once, so I'm interested in y'all's opinion. I think it has one opening. What? It's connected. No, it's two. It goes the whole way through. No, okay.

Are your mouth and your butthole one opening or two? Those are definitely two openings. Uh-huh. Yeah, but there's... No. I just beat... There's different... Are your mouth and your butthole one opening or two? Those are definitely two openings. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah, but there's... No, I just beat the shit out of you with that. No, listen, there's different routes things can take once they enter your mouth before they... Like, it doesn't always have to go to your butthole.

Okay, but... You can take water in and it comes up and goes out your nose. Okay, but... You can take water in and it comes up and goes out your nose. You suck something through one end of the straw. It's coming out of the other end of the straw. Okay. There's no alternate route. Mm-hmm.

But that doesn't mean that there's only one opening. Yeah, it's one. It's all... it's connected. There's no, no offshoots, no nothing. I'm so disappointed that you came up with a response to my brilliant mouth and butthole question.

I'm just going to sit here and think about that for a while. Also, air goes in your mouth and it does not come out of your butthole. How about some Supreme Court inductions? How about that, huh? To get into the Supreme Court, all you have to do is sign up for our Patreon at the $7 level or higher. And right now we are reading your names and your first celebrity crushes.

And the list is not very long this week because I didn't do my job. Okay, excellent. Brianna. Erin Carter. Okay, excellent. Brianna. Aaron Carter. Alex Tuno. Reese from Malcolm in the Middle. Nicole Koons. Christy McNichol.

Celeste Groby. Meatloaf in Rocky Horror Picture Show. Philip Smith. Ewan McGregor. Lori Adelot. Tony DeFranco. Sarah Vanderpool. Leonardo DiCaprio. Shannon Miner. I was six. He had a mullet.

I have so many questions for my 90s self. Zoe Martinez. Zac Efron. Megan Struwe. Adam Levine. Bobby Jean S. Fox Mulder from The X-Files Mary LeBode

Vinny Barbarino AKA John Travolta Welcome to the Supreme Court! Thank you everyone for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twister. Twister.

Wow. Twitter. We are not on the new, the hot new social media app, Twister. Right hand red, am I right? Okay. Twitter, Instagram, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a five-star rating and review.

Then be sure to join us next week. When Brandi will be an expert on a whole new topic. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. For this episode, I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitated it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. So I owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from the episode of American Justice titled Kill Thy Neighbor. The episode of Vengeance, Killer Neighbors titled Poison Mastermind.

Now you see why I couldn't say any of this shit. I do. And reporting from back in the day by Mike McLeod for, or McLeod, for the Orlando Sentinel. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.