Let's Go To Court! - 288: The Kidnapping of Martha "Doe" Roberts

Episode Date: March 6, 2024

Allen Roberts returned home, annoyed. A man named Sam Wagner had set up an appointment with him to talk about purchasing some land. Allen had gone out to meet Sam, but the man never showed. Now Allen found himself back home and, strangely, alone. His wife, Martha “Doe” Roberts was nowhere to be found. That was unlike her. She never left the house without at least writing a note.  And now for a note about our process. For this episode, Brandi copy and pasted from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Hold the Line” episode Hometown Homicide “A Tale of a Lethal Friendship and How It Led to A Cruel Murder” by The Mystique, Medium “Martha Doe Roberts” unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com “Husband vows to pay ransom for missing wife” Associate Press, The Tennessean “Neighborhood Watch: The Kidnapping of Doe Roberts” podcast episode, True Crime Campfire “State v. Lord” casetext.com YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 55+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Pond. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about a kidnapping. Mmm.

That's right. Guess who's back. Back again. It is us. Doing kidnappings? Oh, no. Oh, I thought you were talking about how I was doing kidnapping again. Can you imagine if we were kidnappers and we sang a little ditty as we did it? Oh. Kidnappings. It is us. Doing kidnappings. Oh, no. Oh, I thought you were talking about how I was doing kidnapping again because I like kidnappings.

Can you imagine if we were kidnappers and we sang a little ditty as we did it? Oh. All right. I feel like we'd get caught really quickly. Yeah. Yeah. You sound kind of like Marv in the Home Alone movies where he wants like a fun nickname for. Which one's Marv?

Is it the tall one or the short one? He's the tall one, obviously. for... Which one's Marv? Is it the tall one or the short one? He's the tall one. Obviously. So in the first one, he wants to be the wet bandit, so he leaves the water running at all the houses they rob. That's plenty. Which just allows

them to tie all the crimes to them. I'm obviously a sexy kidnapper, so you're going to have to rethink that whole thing. I think wet... That's enough. Wet bandits works then, Kristen. It's a family podcast. Giggity. Family podcast.

Hello, everyone. How's everyone doing? Everyone. So we record every Wednesday. So we are just now getting everyone's reactions to last week's episode where we announced that the show is coming to an end. Winding down. I said winding up in the episode. Didn't catch it until the edit. Too late to fix it. Boy, is my face red. What a maroon. Anyhow. No, it's been really nice to see all the sweet comments and the

supportive comments. Like, yeah, I mentioned this in a couple different places, but I just want to say it on the podcast. Obviously, this podcast has meant a ton to us. We've been doing it for six years. And it feels really good to know that it matters to other people, too. Absolutely. Absolutely. So thank you to everybody who said something. Yeah. And I want to say thank you to the people who have acknowledged how difficult this was for me. Yeah. Because it is. It's one of the hardest things

I've ever done. As a people pleaser to the core, it felt easier just to not end the thing that is making me so anxious and taking time away because people want it

and that was really difficult. And it has been really nice for people to recognize that that was a hard thing that I did. So thank you. Thank you. Also, we should clarify because I feel like some people didn't quite get it. But like we were announcing that at the end of March, the podcast will end. But we're going to keep doing episodes in the meantime.

Patreon is still up. Yeah. Patreon's still up and running. But we're going to keep doing episodes in the meantime. Patreon is still up. Yeah, Patreon is still up and running. We're still going to do bonus episodes. Yeah, well, not one. Just the March, but we already did the February one. Maybe I'm going to go balls out. You don't know. Maybe I'm just going to be recording all kinds of shit.

It will still be, for sure, active for March we'll do. Bonus episode we'll do. Zoom call. Get in on the last of that stuff if you feel so inclined. And another thing, we know that people have a lot of questions like, will the Patreon continue? Will the Discord continue? And boy, do I have an answer for you. We don't know.

We're still working on it. So sorry about that. We're figuring it out and we will let you all know when we know. When we figure it out. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Very good. But, yeah, thank you to everybody who's been so sweet.

Yeah. There have been some weird responses, but that's okay. Also, if it bothers you that I'm leaving the podcast to become just a mom, you may have missed the whole message. It's all right. It's all right, folks. People hear what they want to hear. And you know what they want to hear right now? An ad?

Oh, no, there's no ad. We don't have an ad. I was going to say a story about a kidnap. I was keying it up. Sorry, we can get that. You want to leave that mistake in there? We don't have an ad. Okay. I was going to say a story about a kidnap. Oh. I was keying it up. Sorry. We can get that. You want to leave that mistake in there? No, we leave it in.

We don't have an ad for right here. Yeah. You know what? I'm so mad about this, we're going to end the show over it. Okay. All right. That sounds like a reasonable response. Okay.

All right. Do you want to hear about a kidnapping? I do. This is an interesting one. Well, okay. Good. Okay. I watched a, good. Okay. I watched a new show for this.

What was it? Hometown Homicide. You ever heard of it? No, I hate these shows. Okay. I thought this one was pretty good. Very low on the reenactments. Lots of actual news footage from when this happened.

Okay. I liked it. Okay. And actual family members involved with telling the story. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good one. It was on Max in case anybody's wanting to check it out.

All right. Very good. So shout out to that episode of Hometown Homicide. And then also an article for Medium, which is only credited to The Mystique. So how much are we trusting this source? Well, they also cited their sources. So very good. I also worked off of their sources as well.

Alan and Martha Roberts, who was affectionately known as Doe. You want to know how she got to the name Doe? Yeah. Her middle name was Eudora. And she went by Doe because it's short for Eudora. Yeah, that's a good change. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, I like Doe better than Eudora and Martha both. Okay. Yeah, I think it's cute. She also had, like, doe eyes. Well, you got to. Yeah. We've got a lot of Eudoras and Marthas who are really pissed at you right now. You think there's a lot of Marthas and Eudoras listening to this podcast?

So many. And boy, are they upset. Okay, that's fine. So Alan and Joe were good salt-of-the-earth people, according to those who knew them. Alan had made his living in business. He owned and operated a chain of auto parts stores until his retirement. And then he dabbled in land development and real estate. By 1992, the couple had amassed a fortune into the millions. But they were not flashy people.

They lived in a nice but modest brick home on a large piece of property, about 150 acres. Oh, my. OK. In Eads, Tennessee. So it's kind of a smallish town, about 25 miles outside of Memphis. Doe was a housewife. She also did the books for their church, the Methodist church in town. The couple loved to socialize with their church family, potlucks, square dancing club, the whole nine yards.

You ever been square dancing? With you? In elementary school? How quickly we forget. Yes. For Kansas Day? Yes. Absolutely.

I did wear my best square dancing duds. Yeah, we all did. I wore a beautiful ankle-length gown. I wore a dress that my great-grandmother made. It was a black and white polka dot dress. I remember that, with a puff sleeve. And then for some odd reason, this is why I chose to wear it for this particular event, it had an apron.

Yeah. And so it seemed like the perfect dress for square dancing. Yeah, no one's questioning that at all. Why did that dress exist? Why is there a dress with an apron? The apron was sewn onto it. I don't know. Now I don't remember. Yeah. But it did tie in the back. I do remember that. Yeah. Give you that sexy cinched waist. Yeah. Sexy fourth grader. Okay. Don't make it weird. Cinched waist. Yeah, sexy fourth grader cinched waist. Ew, okay, don't make it weird. You're the one that said it.

You brought up fourth graders. We did do, wait, did we do it every Kansas Day, fourth, fifth, and sixth grade? No, I don't think so, because I think I would have been thrilled in the sixth grade to be dancing with the boys, but I don't think we got that opportunity, unfortunately. I remember doing that in the gymnasium. Yes. Yes. Well, where else are you going to square dance? In the music room.

No, it wasn't big enough. Did we take a class to learn how to square dance? Yes. It was taught by the gym teacher. How do you not remember this? Mr. K. Mr. K. We just called him Mr. K.

We did. What was his last name? No one cares about this. You know what? This is like last week when I was making all— Koosh Check? Mr. Koosh Check? Yes. And we called him Mr. Koosh.

Yes. Yes. This is like last week when I was making my weird noises into the microphone because I didn't give a fuck. Is this your version? I'm just reminiscing on— Telling people things they didn't want to know about fourth grade square dancing. Fourth grade square dancing. I wore white cowboy boots.

Good. Okay. Kansas Day is in Januaryuary i don't remember the exact date oh my god january 29th i believe anyway uh-huh none of this can be cut by the way patty don't even think about it it's very important to this story yeah yeah anyway alan. Anyway, Alan and Doe had never had children. They described each other as their world. Actually, their whole world. They left a word out there anyway. And they spent most of their time together because Alan's retired at this point, just as, you know, the real estate stuff kind of on the side. You get it? Yeah. But that would all change on August 7th, 1992, when 65-year-old Doe Roberts was kidnapped. Oh, my gosh. Why am I saying, oh, my gosh?

I already told you somebody was getting kidnapped. Yeah, I'm sorry. It does feel kind of shocking for a 65-year-old woman to get kidnapped, right? It does. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think so. The day started like any other.

What? Well, this sentence is interesting in my notes here. It's supposed to say the couple had breakfast together. It doesn't say that. What does it say instead? The cookie had breakfast together. That's cute. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Anyway, that's my mistake. The couple had breakfast together, and then around 9.30, Alan left to go to a piece of property that they had for sale. He had received a call the previous day from a man named Sam Wagner, who was interested in looking at the property. Okay, I read conflicting reports about what this actual property was. Some places say it's like a chunk of land. Some places say it's a residential property. Maybe it's a residential property on a chunk of land. Some places say it's a residential property. Maybe it's a residential property on a chunk of land. I don't know. Somebody knows,

but it's not me. Okay, great. The mystique probably knows. Probably. Anyway, Alan kissed his wife goodbye and then headed off to spruce up the property a bit and get ready for his meeting with Sam Wagner. But Alan got to the property, did his little sprucing up, and then waited and waited and waited. And Mr. Wagner never showed up. Admittedly, Alan was a little bit annoyed. So he headed back home, got home sometime that afternoon. But when Alan arrived home, he was surprised to find that Doe wasn't there. She never left the house without like telling him where she was going. This is 1992, so we don't want to have cell phones, but she always left a note. Yeah, no, of course. Plus

her car and her bicycle were both in the garage still. So he was like, where the hell is she? He walked through the house calling for her and that's when he noticed her asthma inhaler on the kitchen counter. Doe suffered from pretty severe asthma. She never went anywhere without her inhaler. As soon as Alan saw that, he knew that there was something wrong. He started calling friends and neighbors, asking if anybody had seen her. But unfortunately, did you just hear that? Hear what?

Your burp? It wasn't a burp. It was completely contained. Everyone, write it down. It was completely contained in my throat. Brandi rudely belched on this podcast. Do you know why? Because she doesn't give a fuck.

It's upsetting for me, too. I've got to have some class. Okay. Okay. All right. Oh, my God. What was that got to have some class. Okay. Okay. All right. Oh, my God. What was that? I did not fart.

You calm down. Oh, my God. It smells terrible. All right. Oh, yuck. Easy. Say that to your butthole. Okay.

Everyone, hang on just a second. I've got to crack a window. Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. You're done. Nothing, and I mean nothing, would make me happier than if you accidentally farted while we were recording. That's never going to happen. Nothing would make me happier than if it did happen. i don't know what i'd have to pay patty

i'd be like cool yeah she's gonna tell you in the edit like to take that out and just say sure yeah all edits done you know yeah i don't know do i slip patty a 20 patty you let me know. Patty, your loyalty is only $20? Listen, Patty is coming with me to the next podcast that I do. Okay? I guess she is loyal to you. So even if the real answer is like 40 bucks, Patty's going to be like, hey, you know, this one's got legs here. Yeah. I'm going to go for the 20. All right.

Anyway, Patty, reach out. Let me know what the real rate is. Here's the deal, though. I have accidentally farted one time in my life. And I was in kindergarten and it was caused by a sneeze. And I've never farted again. We call that a snort. Outside of a bathroom.

Yeah, that's my fart origin story. My no fart origin story. Okay. I sneeze farted in the sharing circle in kindergarten. And they said, we didn't want you to share all that. And they all laughed. That's exactly right. I had a jean skirt on, I'm pretty sure.

It was Kansas Day. Why do you remember it had a jean skirt on, I'm pretty sure. It was Kansas Day. Why do you remember it was a jean skirt? It wasn't Kansas Day. No. Did you shard? Is that why? No! Jesus Christ.

Well, I'm just wondering, like... You think I sharded again? I don't know. Crazier things have happened. I pooped in a Bed Bath & Beyond bag when I was like 22. But you have heard this story a thousand times before. You think I've just been hiding the fact that I sharted all of these years? It would not shock me if like your deep, dark secret was what would be for someone else not that deep and dark.

And so, yeah, maybe, you know, all of a sudden the truth comes out that a little poo came out that day. No, I did not shart. I do believe I had a jean skirt on. I had this jean skirt. I loved it. I wore it all the time. But I remember sitting. Your snarting skirt.

Stop it. I remember sitting on my knees in the sharing circle, and they were handing out Rice Krispie Treats. Oh, that sounds so good right now. And it was when I got up, like, onto my knees to grab my Rice Krispie Treat that I must have caught a bit of dust in the air. Sneeze a Bruin. And just for that one split second of that sneeze, I lost my butthole control. Did everyone hear it? Yes.

And did everyone laugh? Yes. Including teachers? No, I don't think the teachers laughed. They're pros. Maybe I blocked that out, though. Yeah. Well, okay.

Thank you for sharing what happened to you in the sharing circle. Like legitimately, my butthole's been clenched ever since. Don't you think it's probably not good for you to be that clenched all the time? Why? What's going to happen? I don't know. I think eventually it'll close up on you. I don't think so. That's just science, Brandi, so don't argue with it, okay?

Well, if that ever happens, it's a good thing I've got your butthole to trade out just in case. In this house, we believe in science. Someone, okay, I'm sorry. I know this is not the point. But someone I saw on Facebook was like, when did Kristen, they meant to say lose her butthole. Because, you know, in our announcement, we mentioned buttholes. Because why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you? But they had a typo. Did they say lose her butthole. Because, you know, in our announcement, we mentioned buttholes. Because why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you?

But they had a typo. Did they say love your butthole? No, loose my butthole. Which I found personally offensive. It is pretty loose. How dare you? Let people figure that out on their own time. That thing has been around the block a time or two.

My goodness. Anyway, why don't you tell us about your little kidnapping story? All right. I'm so sorry. Was I in the middle of something? I believe you were before you snarted. I didn't snart. So Alan has started calling like all of the friends, all the neighbors, people from church asking if anybody's seen Joe.

Everybody's like, no, haven't seen her. And so at that point, he's like, I've got to report her missing. It's like early evening by this point. No sign of her. And so just as he's about to call the police, the phone rings. He picks it up, hoping that it's Doe on the line. But instead, there's a man on the line. He has a muffled voice with a very offensive

Asian accent. Oh, okay. Very clearly a white man trying to do a stereotypical racist Asian accent. Yeah. Pretty cool. I actually think it's not cool. Yeah, thank you. That was sarcasm.

Also not cool is sharting while you're podcasting. I didn't shart. I'm just letting you know because I feel like you need a reminder on what the rules are here. Okay. Okay. So he answers the phone and immediately this person in this muffled voice with this horribly racist accent says he has dough. He wants $100,000 in ransom.

And that if Alan doesn't meet all of the demands, this kidnapper will split Doe's head open. Oh, my God. Yeah. And then the kidnapper hung up. Hold on, hold on, hold on. When are we doing the drop-off? No instructions. You must meet all of my demands or I will split Doe's head open.

Goodbye. Okay, well, maybe instead of focusing on developing your racist accent, you could write up a list of demands, maybe? Yeah. Alan was stunned. He didn't really know what to do. Of course not. Of course the kidnapper had mentioned something about not calling the police, but... Yeah. Yeah, Alan immediately called the police. And I mean, a whole horde of

police came to the house immediately. Dude, no. What do you mean? Well, if they say don't call the police, then maybe could we be subtle about it? They weren't subtle about it. Like the FBI comes busting in. They couldn't even officially join the case yet. They needed to wait until they had reasonable, you know, what is it? They had to believe that she'd either been taken across state lines at that point to be able or have the presumptive time of one day pass. Your confidence is too much right now, so I'll ask you to tone it down. So police come, FBI comes, and they sit down with Alan. Alan tells him that, you know, he came home, found her inhaler.

He has a really hard time initially. It seems as if maybe Alan was going into shock at this point. Yeah. Because when all the police arrived there, he also calls, like, they don't have kids, but they have nephews that come over very regularly. And so I think the nephews came over. Sure. And he's just like sitting on the couch in the living room, blankly staring off into space. Yeah.

I can understand that. Yeah. And the agents are like, OK, we need to know when you last saw her, anywhere you think she might have gone, anywhere, anybody who might have done this. And he is not speaking initially. And the police were kind of shitty about that, I think. Like they immediately were like, OK, this guy's acting weird. They didn't take it to be shock. They took it as him not cooperating initially.

Oh, come on. OK. But finally his nephew was like, Uncle Alan, like we have got to try and help Aunt Doe. Like, let's give them whatever information we have. And so he kind of snaps to it. And he's like, I said, you know, goodbye to her at 930. I went to this property to meet somebody. Nobody ever showed up.

I came back. But I know something is wrong. She doesn't have her asthma inhaler. We have to find her. She will die without her asthma inhaler. So then they start an investigation right off the bat. Yeah. The house didn't show any signs of forced entry.

So initially, the investigators suspected that Doe must have been abducted outside the house, likely went out to get the mail, something like that. And Allen said, yes, that he probably believed that was the case as well. She likely went and got the mail as soon as it had been delivered and somebody took her away. And if they're on this big rural property, it's probably a long walk down to the mailbox. Yes, exactly. Yeah. But there was no information to go on. They had gotten that one phone call from somebody who was clearly disguising their voice. And so all they could do was set up recording equipment and hope that the person called again.

I mean, they'd been given no instructions. Right. And so that's what they did. They set up recording equipment and they waited. And later that night, they got a phone call. This time the kidnapper said that they were nearby using a pay phone and that they knew the police were involved. Well, yeah, because they weren't subtle at all. The caller threatened Allen, told him that he needed to remove whatever recording equipment

was on the line, crush the tape. And if he did that, Doe would be safe. OK, so what are you going to like crumple a candy wrapper by the phone to make it sound like you're right? But again, gave no information. Right. On where to meet these ransom demands, where to drop the money, anything. Right.

That is really strange. Yes. It's super weird. Because what is your priority? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Very bizarre.

Days passed with no sign of Doe. Everybody in town was looking for her. They were doing prayer vigils at the church. I mean, everybody was hoping that they would find, praying that they would find Doe unharmed. After a few days had passed, Alan was like, I have to do something. I can't just sit here and wait for more instructions. And so against the advice of law enforcement, he actually held a press conference. And he made a public plea to just return Doe.

He said, you know, we're not flashy people, but I will meet whatever demands you have. whatever demands you have. Right. I will pay the ransom and I'll pay a $10,000 reward to anybody who can help me figure out how to pay the ransom and get my wife back. Yes.

And he said at this press conference, we don't have children. Doe is my world. Yep. I need her back. Is there a reason that the police were against doing a press conference? I think the worry was that if you,

not necessarily against the press conference, but Alan had made it clear he wanted to offer a reward and they really thought that that would muddy the investigation. Okay. You'd bring out the weirdos or the people who just wanted to try and get that reward money. Yeah. Without having any actual information.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What? I don't know. I don't know what I would do in this situation. Yeah. Yeah.

What? I don't know. I don't know what I would do in this situation. I totally understand the people who are like, look, whatever fucking money I have is now up for grabs. Exactly. And that's exactly what he's saying. I probably shouldn't advertise that about myself. Yeah, no, and that's exactly what he's saying.

He's like, yeah, I get it. Like, we have some money. That's fine. I'll give it to you. Give it to my fucking wife. He even talks about how she doesn't wear flashy rings or anything. Like we are simple people. So at this point, everybody's kind of doing these searches for her, doing these prayer vigils for her. A few people are, you know, sharing stories on the news, just like, you know, about we just we just want her to come home. She's such a loving person. She always has a smile. Just talking about her making public pleas.

She always has a smile, just talking about her, making public pleas. At this time, because Alan was the last person to see Doe and they were having trouble legitimizing these calls from this kidnapper, they couldn't track them. They couldn't figure out where they were coming from. They couldn't figure out who was placing them. They started to get suspicious. Yeah. About Alan Roberts. And so they asked him to sit down for a polygraph test.

And he talked about this on the press conference, too. He's like, I am letting them search our entire house. I will do anything. I have cooperated with them fully. I'll take the polygraph test. I am just trying to get out of the way of this investigation so they can find my wife. And so he does. He takes a polygraph test and I believe he passed it. Okay. According to the mystique. Who are we to question the mystique? And he cooperated completely with this investigation. But investigators were starting to have

like some pretty strong suspicions about Alan. His story seemed really weird. You left the house. I mean, it is weird. It is weird. You leave and this kidnapper is giving you no information. I mean, presumably you kidnap someone for the money. So wouldn't that be top of mind for that kidnapper? Yeah. Also, it's taking days upon days, so. Yeah. So they're like, okay. Could just be a really bad kidnapper, though. It could be.

It could be. Someone who's already killed her. Maybe. Don't say maybe. You know exactly what has happened here. I do know what has happened here. Okay. And it was a shart.

It was not a shart. They get him to take the polygraph test. He passed. But they're still pretty suspicious. So now they're trying to confirm Allen's alibi. You know, he'd gone to this property to meet Sam Wagner. So they're like, okay. But Sam Wagner's a lie, right? Let's figure out Sam Wagner.

So Allen had told investigators that Sam Wagner had told him he was traveling from Ohio to Tennessee to look at this property. He was very interested in purchasing. And so they start looking for Sam Wagner's told him he was traveling from Ohio to Tennessee to look at this property. He was very interested in purchasing. And so they start looking for Sam Wagners in Ohio, Sam Wagners that had traveled to Tennessee, Sam Wagners that had maybe potentially booked a hotel room, something like that. They cannot locate Sam Wagner. Okay. And so they're like, did he make this whole story up? Or was that made up by the kidnapper to get him out of the house?

Who knows? You know. I do know. At this point, a couple of weeks have passed since Doe went missing. And Alan did some stuff that made people real suspicious of him. He started going to square dance club again and he started to dance with women at square dance club. Well, that's...

Yeah, I don't think it's... That's just part of square dance. Exactly. You have to dance with other people at square dance club. That's how square dancing works. That's why we loved it because we got to link arms with boys in the fourth grade. Yeah, you got to promenade. Yeah.

So people in the church are now starting to get suspicious of Alan. Oh. And there are rumors that begin circulating about how Alan must have been having an affair with somebody in Square Dance Club. Do they have suspicions on who that might be? Not to my knowledge. Okay. No particular person was ever brought forward. He do-si-doed with somebody. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Yep. OK. Yep. And with that behavior, the police were like, yep, pretty sure he made this whole thing up. Pretty sure this is all a lie. And he really murdered his wife to cover up the affair that he was having or to be able to move forward with the affair that he was having. And so even though he passed his polygraph test and everything, they start really investigating Alan at this point. They do a full search of the property. They actually bring in like big equipment and try and do like some digging on the property. Oh, wow.

Yeah. But there were no signs that any crime had occurred there. No signs that any cleanup had occurred there. This poor man. Nothing. Yeah. Then people in town who knew Doe and Allen start getting phone calls from the kidnapper. What?

Yes. So one woman who went to church with them, she comes forward and talks to the news. She calls a press conference and she says she got a call from someone she believes to be the kidnapper. And she believes, based on questions the kidnapper answered for her, that only Doe could know that Doe is still alive. alive. And she says in this press conference that she believes that the kidnapper is tired of dealing with Alan and she is happy to deal with them and handle the ransom drop. Just let her know how to do it, where to do it, and she'll handle it. This is weird. And then more people in town get phone calls. Each one of them are given information about Doe that only Doe could know as proof of life. Several of these phone calls take place. One of them is placed to a man named Charles Lord.

So he is a close friend of Alan and Doe's. He goes to their church. He's like one of the, whatever, it's a Methodist church. I don't know what their elders are called. Maybe a deacon. Yeah, I don't know. He's a higher up at the church, you know, not as high as Jesus, but. Wow. Okay. Okay. Can you tell I go to church? Yeah. You know, he's not part of the Trinity. I know that. He's not God or Jesus or the Holy Ghost. Is there a lesser Trinity? We're not sure.

Okay. What's the one that sounds dirty, but it's not? What are you talking about? Sexton? Isn't that a position at church? Oh, I believe so, but not in the church I grew up in. Did I just make that up? I don't think you made it up.

So he says that he gets a call from the kidnapper. He then makes an appeal to the media, just like the woman neighbor friend had done, and says, OK, I am here. I'm appealing to you. You can deal with me if it's that you don't want to deal with Alan or whatever this other woman's name was. I forgot I didn't write it down. I am here. I will do whatever you say.

We'll get you the money. Just tell me where to drop it. Give us back dough. So that airs on like the nightly news or whatever. And then within a few days, Charles called the police and he said that he had received a letter from the kidnapper. So the police come out

and he shows them this letter that he got. And they're like, okay, we are going, but it had to have been hand dropped in the mailbox. It was not delivered

by the post office. And so, or the mail carrier or whatever the fuck people say. I don't think the post office or the mail carrier or whatever the fuck people say. I don't think the post office itself is delivering anything. Corporations are people too, Brandi. Never forget that. And so they're like, okay, this is what we're going to do. We're going to set up this real cute birdhouse right across from your mailbox. Inside of it, hidden fucking camera.

Hold on, what year is this? It's 1993 at this point. That's going to be the biggest birdhouse anyone has ever seen. With that FBI equipment. I don't care. It's 93. They're not holding the handy cam on the shoulder. That is going to be a bird restaurant and

condo building. That is ridiculous. So they set up this birdhouse, hidden camera, to capture the kidnapper dropping a letter in the mailbox. Okay. Charles Lord gets another letter. They check the footage. The equipment malfunctioned somehow. It didn't catch anything.

Of course it did. So they set it up again. Charles Lord, it's another letter. What happened this time? They go and they check the equipment. Would you believe it? It failed again. I would believe it.

They didn't get anything. At this point on the hometown homicide episode, one of the FBI agencies interviewed, and he's like, man, we were really frustrated that our equipment kept messing up and we're just we're missing this kidnapper. They didn't suspect anything? Apparently not. OK. So each time Charles would get one of these letters from the kidnappers, something would

happen with the equipment. It would fail. It wouldn't record it. You know, whatever. And now it's time for an ad. Oh, doodaloo. And now we're back from the ad. Doodaloo.

Okay. So Charles is getting these letters. FBI is trying to catch the kidnapper on camera. And their damned equipment is failing every time. Okay. I'm getting less and less impressed by this investigation. Are you? Yeah.

Why? What do you think is happening? Do you think Charles is tampering with the equipment? I'm afraid so. Do you think Charles is planting these letters in his own mailbox? Yes, I believe so. Also, I have to confess that I'm a little mad about you bringing up Rice Krispie Treats. Because now you want one?

Half an hour ago. I keep thinking. Yeah. Okay, everyone, let me just let me tell you what's really happening here. A couple minutes ago, I had a very embarrassing moment where I had to ask Brandy, hey, could you repeat what you just said? And it was because I'd spaced and it was because I was thinking about Rice Krispie Treats, which feels like your fault. Perhaps I could help you in this situation. Do you have a Rice Krispie Treat? No, but I will ruin the Rice Krispie Treat for you that I talked about. Well, because you snarted right on it. I didn't.

I snarted as I got the Rice Krispie Treat. Okay. But here's the problem. They handed out these Rice Krispie Treats on Kleenexes. I mean. So the Kleenex just stuck to the bottom of the Rice Krispie Treat. Yeah, that's not great. No.

Does that make you want it less? No, because now I'm thinking about like the really gooey kind of Rice Krispie treat that would stick to something. And, you know, I'd make a way. I'm an inventive kid slash adult. You know, maybe I have to leave a few soldiers behind on that Kleenex, you know, but I'd eat that. Do you mean Rice Krispies? Is that what you're meaning by soldiers? Yeah, that's what I mean.

How much of the Kleenex are you willing to ingest? None. That's the real question. No, that's not your answer. I know that's not your answer. I would turn it over and be like, oh, no. Whoops. It didn't stick to mine be like, oh, no. Whoops. It didn't stick to mine at all.

Uh-oh. Oh, you had a problem with your Kleenex? Not me. I'm going to crumple mine up real fast and throw this away. Anyhow, this was a story about you rudely bringing up Rice Krispie treats. Okay. Anyway. And how that affected me.

I'm sorry. Seven months have passed since dough went missing by this point. It's now March of 1993. People are still getting random communication from this kidnapper. Nobody believes that Doe is still alive. No, of course not. But nobody has any idea what has happened to her or who was responsible for it. Well, come on. No, the whole town is still looking at fucking Alan. Okay. Yeah. That's horrible.

They believe he has murdered his wife and made up this whole kidnapping thing as a ruse to cover it up. This is the worst. When we cover cases like this where in addition to dealing with a missing loved one or, gosh, we talk about like that man whose children died in a fire and then he was – and then on top of that, you're blamed for it. This case reminds me of two other cases that I've covered. The first one is the guy whose wife fell down the stairs and like legitimately died in an accident. Yep. But he was charged with her murder because he got married too quickly after she died.

Yeah. And it also reminds me of the man whose wife died by suicide. Yeah. And he was tried for her murder. Yeah. I don't know how people get through that. I don't either. So, yeah, the whole town has basically turned on Alan at this point.

They believe that he has murdered his wife. He's like shunned from his church. Yeah. He's completely isolated. He has his family. His family believes that like something horrible has happened here and he gets a call. He answers it and on the line is someone with a very racist, stereotypical Asian accent. And he says hello to this news anchor and says, I have Joe Roberts. Shut up. And the anchor is so quick thinking that he puts the phone on speaker and he just happens to have his tape recorder right there. He just starts it going.

And he starts asking a couple of questions. But the caller refuses to give any information about the whereabouts. Nothing. Just says, I have her, but she's dead. Oh. The person called back the next day and talked to the anchor again.

And this time, they said, I have Doe Roberts, but she's alive. Get out of here. Mm-hmm. And so, again, this anchor is like, okay, all right, tell me where I need to go. Tell me I will give you the money, whatever. At this point, the kidnapper has upped the ransom at some point along the way.

He's no longer asking for $100,000. He's asking for $185,000. Okay. But still has never given a single person a drop point to give the money. Seven months. And so this news anchor somehow gets the kidnapper to give a location. He sets up a time and a place for him to go. He asked that Alan go to a nearby shopping mall and drop the money.

And so Alan did it. Okay. Kidnapper never showed up. Alan did, took the money, did exactly as he was asked. No sign of the kidnapper. Nobody ever picked up the money. Another few months go by. It's now the summer of 1993.

And Alan and Doe's nephews, who they were very close to, at this point, they are so frustrated in this investigation. In this investigation. With this investigation? With this investigation. Sure. I think I don't know what I said. Anyway, it doesn't matter. So at this point, they're like, we're taking this into our own hands.

And they believe at this point that they know who is responsible for Doe's kidnapping. Yeah. Yeah. Much like you do, Kristen. Who is it? Birdhouse boy. Yeah. Charles Lord.

Yes. They're like, he is for sure who did this. We know he did this. We're going to set him up to prove it. Okay. And so they. Set up to prove it. Okay. And so they. Set up another birdhouse. No.

So they call up Charles Lord Jr. They give him. I don't know. I don't understand the setup totally. But they give him an unlisted phone number. Okay. Okay. But that's only known to them.

He doesn't know that it's an unlisted phone number. Very next day, they get a call at that number from the kidnapper with the strong Asian accent. Oh my God. They arranged to meet him

the following night at a motel to hand over that ransom money. Okay. Uh-huh. The following night. Did he show? At a motel. Uh-oh. Uh-huh. To hand over that ransom money. Okay. They went to the hotel. And up walks Charles Lord.

He freaks out. And he's like, uh, I'm just here to help save Doe. I'm here to help save Doe. I was going to deliver the money to the kidnapper. Yeah, yeah. And they're like, uh-huh. How'd you know? Uh-huh. And then he slips up and tells them something that only the kidnapper could have known.

And I don't know exactly what that piece of information is. Something about their mother. Mm-hmm. And it was something that they had fed him intentionally so that. Yeah. Yes. And they call him on it. And they get into an argument and he flees the scene oh my god so they call the fucking fbi and they're like it's lord it's charles lord he's

the kidnapper he did it he's on the run wait they didn't have like people waiting no they had done this completely on their own because i believe that they had told the investigators that this was their theory. And they were like, yeah, but we need more information. Like there's not enough to go on, you know, that kind of thing. Oh, Lord. Okay. And so they were like, fine. We'll do it ourselves.

Jeez. Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah. Finally, investigators are like, okay, clearly if he showed up to this setup, he must be involved. So now they finally start investigating Charles Lord. And they discover that he was heavily in debt. That he'd also embezzled $14,000 from the Methodist church.

Oh. And she discovered it. Where Doe was the bookkeeper. Yeah. Yep. And so now they put together the theory that he had kidnapped her in order to cover up his embezzlement from the church. So he didn't want to get caught for embezzlement. So now he's going to be charged with murder.

That's correct, ma'am. Yep. Good grief. What an idiot. Yep. Good grief. What an idiot. So in August of 1993, finally, investigators sit down with Charles Lord and they're like, we know it's you. Yeah. We know you did this. Give it up. Tell us, tell us what happened. And so they sat down with him. There's going to be a series of three interviews here. So we'll start with the first one. And the first one, Charles says, yeah, I did do this. I did. I made a phony phone call to Alan pretending to be someone who was interested in buying the property to get him out of the house. And then after he was gone, I went to the house and I told Doe that Alan

had been in a horrible car accident to lure her away. And she believed me. So she just ran out of the house and got in his truck with him under the guise of going to her husband who had been in a horrible car accident. He said that she got very upset in the car. She didn't have her asthma inhaler. Yeah. And she collapsed. He said that he panicked at that point when he determined that she was not breathing. And so he drove to the middle of a bridge in town and threw her body into the river.

Oh, my God. He said he did intend to kidnap her for ransom. Yeah. Because he had gotten into a really bad financial situation. He said he never intended to kill her. That was just an accident that happened. And that was that. Why keep playing these games with people, though? Why never ask if you really need the money? Why never give a location to drop the fucking money off at? So, yeah.

So he admitted that he had made up this ruse for the purpose of obtaining ransom money. He told them about where he had dumped her body. And so they conducted a very extensive search of that area. They brought in divers. They dragged the river at that point. There was no sign of Doe, no sign of her body, no sign of – there was no evidence that she'd ever been there. And so they were like –

Well, that's unsettling. This does not make any sense. So at this point, they are working with Charles, creating a plea deal, essentially. He's willing to tell them everything as long as they don't seek the death penalty for him. Hold on. Isn't it possible that the river took her body away? It's possible, but they find no sign at all. Like no earring that's been dropped, no piece of clothing that's been left behind.

And so to them— But I mean, if the water's moving— For whatever reason, they feel fairly confident that this story is a lie, that Doe has never been in this river where he is claiming to dump, to have dumped her. OK. And so they go back to him and they're like, this is the deal. Like, if you want us to give you this plea deal where we take the death penalty off the table, you have to be honest with us. Yeah.

And we don't think you're being honest. And they asked him to take a polygraph test. And then at that point, he was like, okay, yeah, I wasn't telling the whole truth. And they're like, okay, so tell us where she is. Right. And he did. He led them to his house, to his property, to a compost pile that Doe was buried under. They found her body on August 31st of 1993, just over a year after she'd been kidnapped.

How awful. Yeah. Were they able to determine what had actually happened to her? So, okay, here's at this point they pull her body out and it is perfectly preserved. You're kidding me. me so he had attempted to speed up the decomposition by putting lime on her but he'd done it like in the wrong order and instead had accidentally preserved her remains i'm sorry her remains i don't know what happened when i said that the first time that's okay there was an extra end just there were just letters all over the place in there. Yeah.

Wow. So at this point, he's still kind of telling the story that she died of an asthma attack, essentially, under the stress of being told her husband had been in an accident. Right. And they're like, her body's in really good condition. He'd already split her head open. So we're going to know exactly what you did to her. And the condition of this plea deal is that you are honest with us. And so they sit down for another interview and he's like, yeah, no, I haven't been totally honest with you.

I haven't been totally honest with you. So then in this interview, he says that Doe and Alan had been having marital problems and that he and Doe had become romantically involved. Shut up. Because of that. Shut up. Yep. They were having an affair. And so on the morning of August 7th, he had gotten her husband out of the house in order to have her alone so that they could talk about the problems in the marriage and what she wanted to do about it and if she wanted to leave Alan and, you know, those kinds of things. So he's saying, I haven't been totally honest with you. Here's more bullshit. He said he went to the Roberts house that day and he and Doe had

sexual intercourse in her home. And then he mentioned something about really needing some money because he was in a really bad financial place. And that at that point, Doe became really angry because she believed that he was just showing her affection to get money from her. He believed that he was just showing her affection to get money from her. He said he wasn't really sure what had happened after that point. It was all kind of a blur. Oh, yeah. The argument had kind of escalated.

And he did recall smothering her with a pillow at one point. He said after that he had panicked and he had thought about throwing her body in the river, but he thought that might be too easy to find. And so then he remembered that he had just dug a really nice new compost hole on his property. And so he decided to put her in the compost hole. and so he decided to put her in the compost hole he said that this guy is such a piece of shit he said that he put two bags of lime on her and then pushed dirt into the pit and then he put bags of concrete over it i feel like the biggest idiot in the world why lime Lime. I get it now. Not limes. I, wow. You thought he was squeezing, he was out there just juicing limes? I mean, yes, that's exactly what I thought.

And you're like, it's great because he can just put the rinds right there in the compost pile. I didn't think that far ahead, all right? I just thought, you know, gosh, I really don't know a lot about what it takes to preserve anything. You know, Brandy, now that I've been vulnerable with you, maybe you could be vulnerable with us about all the times you've snarted. One time in kindergarten. Okay. Right. But this is kind of like that river story where, all right, there's an element of truth. Let's hear about all the other times, though. You want to know something vulnerable? Sure. Ever since I've had London, sometimes when I sneeze, a little pee comes out.

That's not vulnerable. Yeah, that's – I feel like that's just – I've given birth before. That's just a tale that anyone could tell. It's not really what we're looking for. All right. Okay. Thank you. Moving on. Anyway, this guy sucks ass. I hate it when people do this shit. It is bad enough that you have murdered someone that you've put this whole town through this for a year. Yep. You've let her husband take

the blame. And now you're going to invent a story about an affair. Yep. So at this point, they've recovered Doe's body and they've performed. And make me look stupid about lime juice. I think that was part of his plan all along. It probably was. So at this point, they have recovered Doe's body. Yeah. And they've done an autopsy. And that autopsy discovered dirt in Joe's mouth, throat, and lungs. Oh, my God. And when she was discovered, her arms were up over her face. He buried her alive. They believe that he buried her alive.

Oh, my God. Mm-hmm. So they sit this fucker down again, and they're like, this evidence is not matching the story you are telling. And this plea deal only works if you are telling the truth. And so at this point. Why are they even so concerned about a plea deal at this point? I mean, who cares? Just put him on trial.

I agree. I agree. They probably don't want to go through all the expense. I think so. Yeah. I think so. And I think Alan was on board with just like getting this done without having to do a trial. Who could blame him?

Exactly. So in this third interview, finally, Charles Lord is like, yeah, I've been lying about a lot of stuff. OK, let's hear more lies. He said that he was he was ready to tell the truth now. Oh, good. The whole truth this time. Oh, boy. And I think the police believe that this really is the truth this third time.

Okay. So he said that he was in dire, wow, dire financial straits. What was he spending his money on? I have no idea. I have no idea. And that he had decided to kidnap Joe for ransom. He knew that they had a lot of money and that it would be no big deal for them to be able to come up with a ransom. Okay. And so he says that he did not intend to kill her initially. He said he knew that was a

possibility, that it could go that way. Right. But he really believed initially that he was just going to do this kidnapping for ransom and then just send Doe back home. But just in case it went sideways, he had that pit dug at the compost site. Yeah. Mighty good of him. All right. He confirmed that the truth that he had told through these other two stories was that he was Sam Wagner, the fake person who called to set up the meeting. He had set that up on purpose to get Alan Roberts out of the house and to get Doe to come with him. He had gone to the house that day and said that Alan had been in a terrible car accident and that he needed to take

Doe to him. So he said he got her in the truck and then he took her to his house where he had an apartment over the garage. He took her up to the garage apartment. He had previously prepared strips of rags and a belt, which he used to bind her to a chair. Oh, my God. He placed duct tape over her eyes and then forced her to take sleeping pills and pain pills. He thought this would kill her, he said, or he hoped it would kill her. Why was he hoping to kill her? I don't know.

Okay. But really, it just made her, it just kind of knocked her out. Right. And once she was knocked out. He buried her? Nope. And once she was knocked out. He buried her?

Nope. He untied her from the chair, moved her to the bed, undressed her. Okay. And raped her. So that's what this is about. It's about being a sadistic fuck. Then he burned all of her clothing after cutting off the buttons and snaps so that they wouldn't be found in his burn pit because they wouldn't burn. And at some point he smothered her with a pillow,

and then he believed she was dead, according to him, and threw her in the compost pit and buried her. But the autopsy shows that she was not dead. This is awful. It's awful. He then called Allen Roberts and demanded $100,000 ransom. Charles Lord's wife was home during this entire thing. She had no idea. Oh my god. Yep. Oh holy shit. Yep. Said it wasn't until after his wife went to bed that he buried her in the pit.

He acknowledged in his third interview that he didn't believe Joe's body would be found in as good of condition as it was. That's why he lied in his other interviews because he thought he could get away with it. But then once they found the body, it was very preserved. So obviously he was arrested and charged with Doe Roberts murder. And in October of 1993, Charles Lord pled guilty to the first degree murder and kidnapping of Martha Doe Roberts. At his sentencing hearing, the state provided evidence about all of those confessions that he gave essentially. And then they were like, you know, zeroing in on the one that matched the actual evidence. They also presented evidence that showed that Charles Lord was, I mean, just a fraudster. He had obtained a series of fraudulent loans from 1985 to 1987 from a Memphis Defense Federal Credit Union.

I believe he worked there at the time and he'd given himself these loans and then somehow like waived them. He also embezzled over $150,000 in 1989 from the federal government while he was working at the Memphis Defense Depot and that he had misappropriated $70,000 during 1991 and 1992 with funds from the church. And then he had embezzled that $14,000 from the church more recently. Good grief. Yeah. During this hearing, Dr. John Hudson, I almost called him Houston, but it's Hudson. He's a clinical psychologist. He took the stand during this hearing and he testified about an evaluation he did on Charles Lord. He concluded that Charles Lord had cluster B personality disorder. He exhibited elements of antisocial,

borderline narcissistic, and histrionic personality disorders. He testified that the defendant's various traits included a lack of concern for others, a lack of concern for community standards, being self-centered, being somewhat self-destructive, being superficial, and having a lack of empathy. He actually testified that he was really astonished that Charles Lord admitted to raping Doe. He said that actually doesn't go in line with those disorders. He said it's actually out of character for them to take credit for that or confess to that, however you want to say it. Okay. But he said that the defendant was, quote, a liar, a cheat, and a killer. He also said that he believed that Charles Lord's mental condition impaired his judgment, but, quote, not significantly so. Ultimately, at the end of the sentencing hearing, Charles Lord was sentenced

to life in prison plus 25 years. Okay, if you'll recall, I said he pled guilty, right? Yeah. I don't know if he forgot that. Okay, okay. Here we go. He gets a chance to speak and now he's gonna say what? No, no. As far as I found, I don't know that he made a statement at his sentencing. Oh, okay, okay. No, he appealed his sentence. Well, that's the deal when you take a plea deal. Exactly. You really can't go back.

He appealed his sentence saying, I don't know, some shit about how it was too excessive of a sentence. Dude. Yeah. And then the appellate court was like, yeah, no, we're actually denying your right to even try to appeal this. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah. And then the appellate court was like, yeah, no, we're actually denying your right to even try to appeal this. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah.

You're lucky you didn't get the death penalty. Yes. Yep. Charles Lord died in prison in 2016. Doe Roberts was finally laid to rest in a funeral a little over a year after she first disappeared. year after she first disappeared. And after the truth of this whole kidnapping scheme came out, Alan Roberts went to his church, the one that had turned its back on him throughout this and suspected him that he had murdered his wife, accused him of having an affair. He went to his church. He walked in, said, I want to be removed from your member roles, and then walked out and never came back again. Good for him. Yep. Fuck all of you.

Yeah. Sorry, that might be a little harsh. Alan Roberts did go on to remarry at some point. Seems suspicious, doesn't it? No, the show I watched said he did have very happy last few years of his life. Probably someone who square danced with him. Probably, yeah. What a scandal.

And he died in 2005. Yeah. And that is the story of the kidnapping of Doe Roberts. How awful. Yeah. So they talk about this on the show I watched now, Hometown Homicide, that, like, clearly the money was not the motivator here. Right, right. Because he can say that all he wants, but he never made a location for the drop.

He took the steps to actually get the money. Yeah. They really believe he just was a sadistic person who wanted to murder Doe. Yeah, I believe that. Yeah, I do, too. Gross. Gross. Yep. And you know what we should do now?

An ad? Yeah. Okay. Doodle-oo. And we are back from the ad. Doodle-oo. Should we take some questions from the Discord? I believe we shall.

All right. But how the hell do you get in there? Oh, you gotta join our Patreon. Boy. What, did you want more information? No, no, just phone it in. Yeah, at the $5 level or higher, you can join our Patreon, and that gets you access to the Discord. Yeah.

And when we record, we get in there and we ask you for questiones and you give us answeronies. Answeronies. With a side of rice-a-roni. And everyone's happy. Oh, no. I just almost added a photo of myself to the Discord. Oh, boy.

Hang on. I mean, it's what they want, obviously. Lazy Lesbian Biz asks, how are you feeling? Oh. That's so nice. And then they went on to later ask, no, really, how are you feeling? I'm feeling okay. Yeah.

Yeah. It's been a lot. There's been a lot of feedback the last day and a half. And it's been, I'll be honest, it's been tough for me. But there's been a lot of really supportive feedback as well. I was going to say, you're doing classic Brandy, which is like, you know, I'm going to say, what, 95% of feedback has been really positive and sweet. Yes. You know, my personal feeling is like if we stopped the podcast and nobody cared, that would be really hard on me.

That would be really sad, absolutely. is like if we stopped the podcast and nobody cared, that would be really hard. That would be really sad, absolutely. Even the folks who are, you know, upset or sad or whatever, like, you know, I appreciate that. I get where that's coming from, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I'd be upset if a podcast that I enjoyed stopped making content. Of course. But like, you know, I feel like the vast majority of people have been really sweet. Absolutely.

They get it. But then there's Maud. There's the other ones, and those are hard on my little people- been really sweet. Absolutely. They get it. But then there's the other ones and those are hard on my little people pleasing heart. Yeah. But I really am doing okay. Good. Yeah. Thank you for asking. Oh,

I can answer this one. Okay. Personal Chocolate Fountain wants to know, Kristen, do you have any podcast future plans? Maybe one Brandy can guest star in every once in a while with the sad eye emoji. Yeah. Against everyone's better judgment, Ask an Old White Guy is happening. I don't know what you did to deserve this, but DP is getting his own podcast.

That's right. Okay. So be prepared. I don't know what you need to do to be prepared, but look out. Very excited. Excellent. There's no preparation for this podcast. What about preparation H?

You don't want me to talk about your dad and hemorrhoids in the same conversation? The last time I brought this up, you brought up penises. I didn't bring up penises. You did bring up penises. I said fully erect. If you thought that meant penises, that's your own. All right. That sounds like a you problem.

Sounds like Brandi's trying to sabotage this clearly. Thanks a lot. We're very excited for Ask an Old White Guy, Kristen. Yeah. What could go wrong with a title like that, I ask you? This sounds like something you have watched.

Have you watched Couple the Thrupple? No. Ew. Oh, I probably shouldn't be so judgmental because I'm not judgmental. All right. Forever Nude wants to know if you ever watched Couple the Thrupple. It's basically what it sounds like. Sounds like right up Kristen's alley.

Sounds like I would not be able to handle three seconds of it. Yeah, I probably would watch that. You would love it. You would love it. Uh-huh. Yes. I've never even heard of it. All right.

Well, I don't want to watch anything where, like, people are emotionally mature or anything like that. Yeah, I know. So there better be lots of problems, okay? Mallory Rose wants to know, Kristen, will feeds be updated if there's new projects in the works? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah.

Yeah, you're going to post it on the LGTC feed. I believe so, yeah. So that everybody can find it, right? We won't hide this. We're not hiding it. We're not hiding it from anybody. That's right. Even if it's a big bush like Brandy's bush.

That's rude. I'm freshly waxed. I was really hoping you hadn't heard that. I only half heard it, but I half heard it enough that I knew I had to circle back to it. Hell, yeah. With an ax, are there any cases you wish you had covered that you didn't, whether due to a lack of information, time restraints, or people potentially being, well, actually assholes about it? Cough, cough, OJ Simpson trial. Yeah, I really wanted to cover Michael Peterson, and I wish I had the nuts to do it.

I just, I think I have a controversial opinion on it and I was not ready to hear the people. What's your controversial opinion? That I don't know if he did it. That's not controversial. I think it's pretty controversial. No, we've talked about that a bunch on here. I think there's just as much evidence that an owl did it as there is to Michael Peterson. Yeah.

Yeah. Nut up. No, I'm not. It's way too here. I think there's just as much evidence that an owl did it as there is to Michael Peterson. Yeah. Yeah. Nut up. No, I'm not. It's way too big. I'm not fucking doing it. You can't make me. And I am not. I'm choosing not to answer this question because I am trying to figure out, like.

Yeah. Do I want to go big or go home for these last couple episodes? And I'm thinking I might. But if I don't, I don't want you to know that I didn't. That's right. There you go. Although you'll definitely know if I didn't. What?

Kelly H. asks, is cheesecake a cake or a pie? It's cake. It's cheesecake. It's right there in the name, Kelly. Wow. What, do you disagree? No, I'm just thinking, like, you've got a level of animosity toward Kelly. No, I just think it's funny.

What would make it a pie? I guess it has a crust. Yeah. All right. That's fair. Think about that. I hadn't even considered it. There's not much that's cake-like about it.

Right, but it's cake in the name. Right. It's a cake made of cheese. Not pie. It's not cheese pie. All right. Cheese pie sounds disgusting. I don't think I want that. I'd eat the shit out of that. That's basically quiche. All right. Okay. Oh, Antihistamine wants to know, what are some goals you have for yourself post-podcast?

Oh, boy. Goals I have for myself post-podcast. I have a lot. You want to name some? I mean, yeah, one of my big ones is to care less about people-pleasing and more about brandy-pleasing. Ew. Well, that sounds gross, but that's not how I meant it. Constantly masturbating. That's what she's going to do. I'm going to masturbate nonstop and have so much free time. Gross. No, no. I think I've lived my life for a very long time putting what other people think before what I think. And I need to not do that anymore. So that's a huge goal for myself.

Absolutely. And this is a huge step in that. Yeah. A huge step. One that was really hard. Sure. Yeah. But it'll be a lot easier.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. What else? I want it'll it'll be a lot easier. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. What else? I want to go to the pool a lot. Does that count? Yeah, I guess. Also, OK, this is a big one for me. This is a big one. I want and I have not had time to do this. And this is so silly. I want to take walks around my neighborhood in the evening with David and London and Jackson. Yeah. That's a huge goal that I have. It's something I've had no time for. Especially for anxiety.

Yes. Walks are amazing. Yes. Yeah. I used to walk all the time. I used to walk three miles a day. Oh, really? Yes.

Yeah. I remember at my old house, I had that walking loop all the time. I used to walk three miles a day. Oh, really? Yes. Yeah, I remember at my old house I had that walking loop across the street. I walked that every day for three miles for years. And then my life got really busy and I haven't done it in forever. And I loved it. I loved it. I loved just being outside in the evening. I did it all through my pregnancy with London. Like, I loved it.

Yeah. Man, oh, man. Yeah. So you're going to my pregnancy with London. Like I loved it. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. So you're going to masturbate a ton. No. Go to the pool. Get arrested for masturbating in public. I will not be masturbating at the pool. Thank you. Masturbate as you walk with your family, which is disgusting. So you'll be a sex offender. So you'll be locked up in no time. Sure. In other words. Let's see. What are my goals? Okay. So.

Oh, this is funny. So when we made our announcement, you know, obviously we've been looking at the comments online. People have been really sweet. One of the comments I saw that I was like, oh, my God, I wish that were true, was somebody was like, I'm curious about the timing of this. Does Kristen have her book coming out soon? Bitch, I wish. No. So, okay, for those who've been on the journey with us for quite some time.

So when we started the podcast, I was finishing up my first book. I finished it up within the first couple years, got an agent, did not get a publisher, which is a big wah-wah. Then I wrote a second book, and I was so thrilled with how quickly I wrote that book. And then I read it and was like, hmm, I should have taken more time. And so now I am halfway through with a good draft of my book. Good. But I'm only halfway through. So I'm hoping I'll have more time to work on that.

But really, I love podcasting, so I want to stay in the space. Definitely look for Ask an Old White Guy. We'll see how that goes. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what the future holds for me. But it's definitely not a book coming out right when the podcast ends. I mean, that would have been brilliant.

But no, that's not in the cards. Should we move on to Supreme Court inductions? I think we shall. Everyone, you know the deal. We are reading your names and your first celebrity crushes. And with the podcast ending, if you sign up on Patreon

at the $7 level or higher, we are very sorry. We are no longer going to be able to induct you on the podcast because... There's too many. There's too many. We're running out of episodes.

All right. Daryl Hawthorne Bernardo Esquire. My goodness. Britney Spears. Suzanne Porter. Han Solo. Janelle Laman. Mitchell Musso. Lauren. Jeff Blackburn. Minty. Alessandro Nivola from Jurassic Park 3. Didn't even know there was a third. There sure is. Arabi. Ricky Martin. Ellie. Adam Lamberg. Diane. Rick Springfield. Jill.

Adam Lamberg. Diane. Rick Springfield. Jill. Jordan Knight. Paula Angelina. Kevin Richardson. Jennifer Blanken.

Andrew McCarthy. Jamie. Ed Harris. Christine Fleming. Gilbert Blythe. Lizeth. Lion. Oh, from Thundercats?

Thundercats is a cartoon. Okay. Yeah. Thundercats are go! I don't remember. Pretty sexy cartoon, was it? No. No? No.

Well, for somebody it was. There's a Reliant K song about Thundercats are go! I don't remember. Pretty sexy cartoon, was it? No. No? Well, for somebody it was. There's a Reliant K song about Thundercats. They were like that band that's like a contemporary Christian band, but also they sound like a little pop punk band. Oh, I remember them. Yes. Okay. Very good.

All right. Viers. Kate Winslet. Katie Kins. Ryder Strong. Rain. Patrick Swayze. Marissa Favaro.

Matt Damon. Only Fuzzy Leftovers. Sarah Michelle Gellar. Brie. Only fuzzy leftovers. Brie. Becky Tree. Jodi Uganel. Kayla Brown. Andy.

Heather Brown. April. Gwendolyn of South Jersey. Joey Lawrence. Gangsta Nessa. Anthony Kiedis. Heather Roach. Dean Cain. Mara.

Jason, the White Power Ranger. Molly. Johnny Bravo. Sarah Godwin. Emma Stone. Carly C. Lee Shang. Tori, aka Slut for a Crap Rangoon.

Leonardo DiCaprio. Mora. Tommy, the long-haired white Power Ranger. Wow, people are very specific. Does white Power need a ranger? Molly Wagner. Scott Baio. Holly.

Robert Downey Jr. Luella Brynn. Jonathan Brandes. Hannah Holden. The Beast of Beauty and the Beast. Sandy. Hulk Hogan. Oh, my. Oh, man. Alexis Mills. Jonathan Brandes Hannah Holden The Beast of Beauty and the Beast Sandy Hulk Hogan, oh my Oh man

Alexis Mills JTT Sidney Schultz George Clooney Okay, someone posted a very shady name And we're not going to read it out loud because we're so classy But they did have their first celebrity crush as Michael Ely Hilary Grace Gordo from Lizzie McGuire Christina Liang classy, but they did have their first celebrity crush as Michael Ely. Hillary Grace.

Gordo from Lizzie McGuire. Christina Liang. Kevin from Backstreet Boys. Cassie Boddy McCauley. Ewan McGregor. Vic. Tom Welling. April Marks. A.J. McLean. Old married couple. Sylvester Stallone. Michelle

R. Johnny Depp. Amanda Deal. Aaron Carter. Jillian Harris. Aladdin. Michelle R. Johnny Depp. Amanda Deal. Aaron Carter. Jillian Harris. Aladdin. Spencer Reese. Tim Daly. Lauren Linenfelser. Johnny Depp.

Melina Jesser. Brad Pitt. Lindsey Garden. Ewan McGregor. Kelly. Zach Morris. Oh, isn't that cute? Yeah.

Kelly attacking Kelly. Yeah, huh? It was meant to be, except it didn't happen. Because that dick from the Max. Anyway. What? Sorry, that's why Kelly and Zach didn't get together. Because of...

Dude, Jeff from the Max. It was too old. Okay, I'm clearly blocking out some stuff. Yeah, okay. We don't have time. It was like the manager at the Max, you know, the restaurant that they went to. I know the Max. He always sat backwards on the chair.

Yes, I remember that perfectly. I started seeing Jeff, the too old manager from the Max, instead of being with Zach. Oh, I do remember that. Yeah. Anyway. But you're over it, right? I am. You don't mind? Okay, cool.

Cool. Did we do shit? I don't know. But Patrick Swayze. Just in case. Lisa Beck. Devin Sawa. Nikki. Christina Applegate.

Sarah Altapiti. Ryder Strong. Willa Conda Ryder. Orlando Bloom. April Rush. Probably a Backstreet Boy, LOL. Mikayla. The Blue Wiggle.

Mackenzie Hart. Colin O'Donohue. Dina Krebs. Mikayla. The Blue Wiggle. Mackenzie Hart. Colin O'Donohue. Dina Krebs. Christian Bale. Audrey Clayton. Theo James. Kara. Jordan Knight.

Hannah Lagouach. Jonas Brothos. Jackie. Keanu Reeves. Tina. Ryder Strong. Elsa. Kathy Rigby.

Evan. Mario Lopez. Moira. Harrison Ford. Meredith. J Strong. Elsa. Kathy Rigby. Evan. Mario Lopez. Moira. Harrison Ford. Meredith. JTT. Robert. Princess from Battle of the Planets.

Shanna. Maxwell Caulfield. Oh, Rexy, you're so sexy. Calm down, please. Mary Wright Jackson. Jordan Knight. Connie Awar. Oh, my. She said roll the R, folks.

Oh, well, you did not disappoint. Justin Timberl Oh, my. She said roll the R, folks. Oh, well, you did not disappoint. Justin Timberlake, who does disappoint. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Thank you, everyone, for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon.

Please don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. People don't have time. Come on. Come on. We're all busy. We're busy. We've got things to do. Oh, shit. When I'll be an expert on a whole new topic. Podcast adjourned.

You have to say this part now. Hang on. I'm pulling up the page. My God. Okay. And now for a note about our process. I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts.

I got my info from an episode of Hometown Homicide, an article for Medium by The Mystique, The Tennessean, and The Court Record. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go. Read their stuff.