Let's Go To Court! - 289: The My Lai Massacre

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

On March 16, 1968, members of the United States Army carried out a mass murder against unarmed Vietnamese civilians. They killed 504 people. Two hundred and ten of the murder victims were under the age of 13. Afterward, military leadership did their best to cover up the massacre. They didn’t anticipate that a few brave people would tell the truth. And now for a note about our process. For this episode, Kristin read a bunch of articles, then spat them back out in her very limited vocabulary. We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “My Lai” episode of American Experience “My Lai Massacre” by Douglas O. Linder for famous trials.com “My Lai Massacre,” entry on Britannica.com “The truth behind My Lai,” by Christopher J. Levesque for The New York Times “The Ghosts of My Lai,” by Shaun Raviv for Smithsonian Magazine YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 55+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Pond. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about the My Lai Massacre. That sounds terrible.

Do you know anything about it? I don't think so. It's terrible. It's the worst. Okay, great. It's... You just picked the worst case ever for today? I literally think this is the worst thing I've ever covered, and I'm very sorry. Oh, boy.

I know. Some people like to go out, you know, on a high note. Not me. Not me. Real sad, depressing note. Okay. Makes you question everything. Makes you hate everything.

How about that? Great. How about that? Glad you have that in store for us. I do have it in store for you. Excellent. Okay, how's life? Because I would rather not talk about this massacre just yet.

Things are good. London, poor little London was sick this week. With what? I don't know. Some weird, she just had a low-grade fever for like five days. Okay. No other symptoms. Okay.

She's fine now, though. But she was very needy, lead in lots of snuggles, and just kept saying, Mommy, I need you, which selfishly made me feel wonderful. I was hoping for a happier story, maybe not about a sick child. I mean, I realize it's...

She's fine. Yeah, I know, but, you know... She's a little bug. She's three. I mean, they get them all the time. She'll have another one in seven days. All right, fine. Fine.

Well, all right. fine well all right thoughts and prayers for london also okay what okay wait i didn't tell this story already did i you i don't know what you're about to say i told london that i'm ending the pot that we're not gonna do this anymore and then i didn't think she'd understand what i was telling her uh-huh um but she after i told her everything she said so that means at night when you get home from work, you won't have to work anymore. And I said, that's right, baby. And she said, so we can play. That's so sweet. And we can read books. And you said, no, I'm going to do something else. I've been wanting to learn how to cross stitch so badly.

No, and I said, that's right. And then I told her that we could drive her car down to the playground because we have a playground in our neighborhood. And then she thought, we're going to do that right that minute. And so then. Real bummer. It did take kind of a turn. Yeah. But we're back now. Things are good.

That's good. No, she said she was, she said, I'm so excited. That's so sweet. That's really sweet. Yeah. Trying to think if there's an uplifting tale from my life that I'd like to tell now. Yeah. What do you got?

Nope. Not a damn thing. Okay. Great. Excellent. Well. In my defense, I have been reading a lot about a massacre lately. Yeah.

Yeah. Excited for this one about a massacre lately. Yeah. Yeah. Excited for this one. It's terrible. Yeah. I don't like anything that has massacre in the title. Ma'am, you like family annihilators, so let's, you're real weird. Like is not the term that I would use. I find them interesting.

Ugh. I find them interesting. Ugh. I find them interesting. Okay. Yeah. Well. But you didn't let me do any more. I was put on a— What do you mean I didn't—

You put me on a family annihilator diet for six months. Did I really? Yes. My best move yet. Thank God. Okay. I love that. Love it for me.

This is the good thing about having a not-so-great memory is you do these wonderful, smart things. It's like, you know, finding 20 bucks in your pocket. Sure. You know, that's the equivalent when I find out that I put you on a family annihilator diet. Yeah. Is the six months up? No. Oh, good.

No. All right, well, keep it going. Yeah. You better not be ending this with any family annihilators. No, I don't have plans to end it with a family annihilator. Great, great. I do have plans to end it with a pretty brandy case. Oh, no.

Yeah. The live show's going to be sad. No, no, no. No, not the live show. Sorry. No, the live show is not. I mean, it's a very interesting case, and it's a Kansas City case. I'm very excited about it.

But, no, I have my cases picked out for the bonus episode and for my final episode. Okay. So, yeah. Okay. We'll allow it. All right. All right. Okay, here we go.

So, shout outs to the MeLi Massacre write up by Douglas O. Linder for FamousTrials.com. Oh, Dougie O. It's been a minute since Dougie O. Dougie O. has made an appearance on this podcast. Fun fact, Dougie O. is mad that I have called him Dougie O, and that's the real reason we're ending the podcast. You were like, you know what? I'm not really that interested in spending my time with my family. I want to quit because of Douglas O. Linder.

Douglas O. Linder has never once reached out to the podcast, folks. He has no idea that I refer to him as Dougie O. Another big shout out to The Ghosts of My Lai by Sean Raviv for Smithsonian Magazine. And there was an episode of American Experience about My Lai. Okay. Didn't love it. Okay. Why not? Well, we can get into it. Anyhow, here we go.

Okay. All right. All right. Today, I'd like to talk to you about the Vietnam War. But first, I'd like to share what we were taught in school about the Vietnam War. Are you ready? Yeah. Let me say, we didn't learn about the Vietnam War in school at all. It was pretty bad. It was complicated. And we are a great country, so let's not talk about it anymore. I literally remember the history book. It was like a couple paragraphs, which I remember even—

I don't even remember that. I remember it just because even as a teenager, I was thinking, huh, this must mean we really fucked up if the US history books are only allotting like a couple paragraphs to a war we were in for years. And then the other thing I remember about that time was like, okay, I feel like this happens to everyone at a certain age. You just assume everyone kind of has the same experiences you do. Because I remember multiple teachers kind of like treating the Vietnam War like, well, you know, I think we all remember, you know, that that was not good. It's like, no, dude, we were we were all born in like 85.

We have no idea. Anyhow. So you're going to tell us about the Vietnam War today? The worst. Well, who is to say it's the worst possible part? I think it is. But then again, I don't know a lot about the Vietnam War because I am ignorant. So here we go. OK. Yeah. So the Vietnam War was long, brutal, incredibly violent. And by the early 70s, roughly two-thirds of Americans said that sending U.S. troops to fight in Vietnam had been a big mistake.

There were a lot of reasons for Americans to be critical of the Vietnam War. But one big factor was the horrific My Lai Massacre and its subsequent cover-up. Here we go. Picture it. South Vietnam, the Quang Ngai Province. It's right along the coast, and it's in central Vietnam, so it was kind of somewhat close to the border between what was then South and North Vietnam, but it's on the southern side.

The U.S. military declared the Quang Ngai province a free fire zone, which is just as terrifying as it sounds. That sounds horrible. And of course, by the end of 1967, most of the province had been just totally destroyed. 140,000 civilians were homeless as a result of all the destruction. This is where things get weird to me. We're like two minutes in. Well, I'm sorry. It gets weird. I don't know what to tell you. According to some of the sources I read,

apparently that didn't mean that every civilian, you know, hated or even just kind of distrusted American troops. You know, some locals really hated North Vietnamese and their allies. Some locals saw U.S. troops as allies. I'm sure a lot of people just didn't want to live in a war zone. Yeah. You know. Yeah. So complicated stuff. And to hear U.S. troops tell it when they went into a new area of Vietnam, they weren't quite sure what they were walking into. And I'd venture to say that that was pretty mutual. The episode of American Experience had interviews with Vietnamese people who interacted with U.S. troops.

And, you know, some had OK experiences and others had the worst, most horrific experiences. A lot of these U.S. troops were unsurprisingly super young, inexperienced, you know, kind of fresh out of high school. And the people leading them often left a lot to be desired in maybe the ethics department. And that seems to be the case for the Charlie Company. The Charlie Company came to Vietnam in December of 1967. They were led by Lieutenant Colonel Frank Barker Jr. Their commanding officer was a man named Ernest Medina. And one of the platoon leaders was a younger guy named William Calley, aka Rusty. Did he have red hair? Yeah, of course. Okay.

I feel like you can't trust a Rusty. Ever. Right? I don't know that I've known any Rustys in my day. Hmm. Oh, you know what? What? I'm thinking about a douchey guy named Dusty now that I think about it. My apologies to Rustys. I'm sorry. Do you remember that guy?

I do. He was a douche, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Anyhow, by all accounts, Ernest Medina was well-liked by his troops, and William Calley was kind of a douchey idiot who had zero respect for Vietnamese people. But I submit that by the time this story is over,

you'll see that William Calley was definitely not the only douchey idiot with zero respect for human life. Great. Anyhow. I have an itch, and it's, like, under my glasses. It's a weird place, yeah. It's, like, on my temple, but. Okay. The Charlie Company was in Vietnam in the Quang Ngai province, and they were moving around,

and, of course, as they moved around, some of them fell victim to booby traps. And obviously that was devastating. There was a story about a man literally being split in two. I mean, it just sounds horrific. Oh, my gosh. And so scary. Yeah. And U.S. veterans have talked about how it was hard to know who to trust.

It was frustrating to watch, probably more than frustrating, but to watch a fellow soldier fall victim to a booby trap and have no immediate recourse. That was kind of one of the interesting things I read was a guy talking about how if you're firing at someone and they're firing back at you, at least you feel like you're doing something. But when you fall victim to a booby trap and you've got all this anger and all this rage, who do you take it out on? But for all the talk about how scary it was for U.S. troops, it sounds just, in my opinion, from what I've read, much more horrifying for Vietnamese civilians. A member of Charlie's Company's 2nd Platoon, a guy named Michael Bernhardt, said that he just naturally assumed that every woman who encountered Lieutenant William Calley's platoon would be raped within minutes. Holy shit.

Cali's platoon would be raped within minutes. Holy shit. Yeah. One former soldier told a story about seeing one of his fellow soldiers sexually assault a Vietnamese woman and afterward chop off her ponytail and walk around wearing it in his helmet. Oh my gosh. The guy told that story, you know, not just to demonstrate the violence that American soldiers perpetrated against civilians, but also to demonstrate that this soldier was walking around with a Vietnamese woman's ponytail in his helmet. And everyone saw that. But the higher ups didn't feel the need to question that or stop that. There was apparently no limit to the callousness. At one point, Private First Class Herbert Carter threw an unarmed farmer down a well. And Lieutenant William Calley, who was, you know, in charge at the moment, went over and shot the unarmed man

who was in a well. Oh, my gosh. Captain Ernest Medina, the guy who was so well-liked by everyone, he would beat captives during interrogation sessions. I'm very sorry to do this to everyone. This is terrible already. It's going to get so much worse. So this is just a warning to the listeners. If this is too much, just stop.

See you next time. So in my view, yes, you know, you've got these booby traps. You've got these mines. Mines? Yes. Yes, landmines. Thank you. You know what?

Earlier when I was writing this up, I accidentally wrote mimes. And I thought, wow, that would be such a stupid, embarrassing mistake. And now I accidentally wrote mimes. Oh, and I thought, wow, what a that'd be such a stupid, embarrassing mistake. And now the word mine looks wrong. Yeah, you've thought about it too much. I have. I have. But no one wants to be surprised by a mime either. Those things are fucking terrifying. Yeah, terrifying, less less dangerous than a landmine for sure. But what if it's a mime holding a landmine? Well, it seems like that's bad news for the mime, I'm guessing. Yeah. Yeah. Glad we discussed this. Great. So all of that, you know, obviously had to be terrible, but it sure as hell seems like a lot of these guys took their anger and rage out on innocent people and they were encouraged to do so by their leadership.

Great. So then comes March 14th, 1968. A booby trap killed Sergeant George Cox and wounded several others. And everybody took that really hard. Sergeant George Cox had been very popular with everyone. And of course, I imagine it's just terrible to lose anyone. But it enraged them. By that point, they'd lost lives. Many of their men had been wounded and they hadn't once had direct combat with the enemy. Immediately after Sergeant Cox died, a few soldiers stole a radio from a local woman. And when she, you know, tried to protest and be like, wait, that's mine, they kicked her to death. Oh.

The next day, they held a funeral for Sergeant Cox. And the day after that, Captain Ernest Medina gave the troops some big news. They wanted revenge? Well, they were about to get it. Against none other than the Viet Cong's 48th Battalion. The 48th Battalion was a big deal. They were at least 250 soldiers, they were well-armed, and, you know, they'd probably been behind a lot of the mines and booby traps.

Wouldn't it be something if the Charlie Company could take them down? Well, they were about to get their chance. Oh, boy. Captain Medina told them that the Viet Cong's 48th Battalion was nearby. They were in My Lai 4, which was a small village home to about 700 people. And by 7 a.m. the next morning, all the civilians would be out of the village. Women, gone. Children, gone. Men who were too old to fight, gone.

The only people they would encounter in My Lai 4 was the enemy. Anyone there was either Viet Cong or a Viet Cong sympathizer, which is basically the same damn thing. Hmm, man. The soldiers were instructed to be ruthless. Kill everyone, because everyone was the enemy. Kill everyone. Because everyone was the enemy. Kill everyone? Yeah, because they were all either, you know, Viet Cong or Viet Cong sympathizers. Okay.

Plus, what? Thank you for telling us this great story, Kristen. That wraps it up. Nope, nope, nope, nope. This is our medicine. We must take it. If there was a home, they were to destroy it. If there was a well, they were to poison it.

If there was livestock, they were to kill it. If there was a crop, they were to destroy it. It is worth noting that Captain Ernest Medina would later claim that he'd just been giving his fellas a pep talk. Okay. He didn't mention anything about what to do if they encountered women or children. I mean. No, no, no, no. Because you said everybody is either Viet Cong or a Viet Cong sympathizer.

You said, kill everyone. Who can really remember what exactly was said that day? Certainly not Ernest Medina. I'll tell you that right now. Weirdly, a lot of the people who listened to that speech definitely got the impression in no uncertain terms that everyone they encountered in Milai 4 would be their enemy and that all of their enemies should be killed. Yeah, because that's what he said. No, Brandy. Goddammit, how dare you? How dare you?

You know, you wouldn't know a pep talk if it hit you in the ass. Okay, all right. This was going to be a very well-coordinated assault on My Lai. There would be helicopters flying overhead. Two platoons led by Lieutenant William Calley and Lieutenant Stephen Brooks would enter the village. The third platoon would hang back, waiting for the first two platoons to secure the area. And, you know, by all accounts, the troops were pumped. They were going to destroy the 48th Battalion. And that battalion was definitely conveniently located in My Lai. Except...

It's not? No. They were nowhere near My Lai. They were about 40 miles away. But, you know, nonetheless, the Charlie Company got started early on the morning of March 16th, 1968. Helicopters dropped soldiers off near My Lai, and by 8 a.m., Lieutenant William Calley's platoon was in the village ready to defeat the enemy. They, boom, entered people's homes, you know, ready for a showdown.

And instead, they found families. Families making breakfast. Yeah. Eating breakfast. Yeah. Wiping sleep out of their eyes. It should not have taken long to realize that whatever intelligence they'd had indicating that the 48th Battalion was in this little village. Was wrong.

Yeah. Yeah. The people in My Lai were completely unarmed. The village was filled with women, children, and very old men. Men too old to serve in the military. But. Because all of the young men are actively in the military and away. Sure. Yes. I would assume and away. Yes.

I would assume, yeah. So what you have is a very vulnerable population. Right. And an obviously vulnerable population. But the U.S. soldiers didn't stop. They didn't pause. They just started murdering people. Oh, my gosh.

They used a bayonet to stab a man in the back. They dragged another man to a well, threw him down it, and threw a grenade down after him. A group of about 20 older women saw the destruction, and they did the only thing they could think to do. They went to a temple, knelt down, and prayed. And as they did so, American soldiers shot the praying women in the back of their heads. Oh my gosh. I didn't find a ton of survivor accounts, but the article from Smithsonian Magazine shared a few, and that was a great article. So I'm, and I'm sorry, this is, this is terrible. But a woman named Xiong Thie Le was at home with her 6-year-old son and her 17-year-old daughter when American soldiers dragged them out of their home.

She and her children were rushed into a group of people, and the Americans opened fire. And Xiong Thie Le fell on top of her little boy, trying to shield him from the bullets. And as she and her son lay on the ground, two dead bodies fell on top of them. Oh, my gosh. She and her son laid there for hours, covered in blood, playing dead. Yeah. She whispered to him not to cry or they would be killed. to him not to cry or they would be killed. Another six-year-old boy, Zhang Nam, was having breakfast with his extended family when the massacre started. There were 14 people in his family,

and they were all having breakfast, and a U.S. soldier walked in, aimed his gun at them, and started shooting. Little Zhang Nam watched his family members being shot, and he ran into a bedroom and hid under the bed. He stayed there for as long as he could until U.S. soldiers set his house on fire. Even then, he stayed as long as he could. He was too scared to leave. But finally, the flames got so bad that that little six-year-old boy ran out the door and hid in a ditch. He later found out that all of his family members had been shot. Eleven of them were dead. The rest were injured.

Some soldiers shot people on sight, but other soldiers just gathered people. They gathered like 80 people and brought them to the main area of the village. And you know, these innocent civilians, they tried to explain. They would say, no VC, no VC. One of the soldiers who'd gathered up all these people was just kind of standing there with them. And Lieutenant William Calley told him, you know what I want you to do with them. Oh my gosh. Lieutenant William Calley told him, you know what I want you to do with them. Oh, my gosh. But that soldier, a guy named Paul Meadlow, didn't do anything.

And 10 minutes later, Lieutenant Calley showed back up, saw that all the people were still alive. And he said, haven't you gotten rid of them yet? I want them dead. Waste them. Oh, my gosh. And so Lieutenant Calley and Paul Me Needlow opened fire on the civilians. And afterward, Paul sat down and cried. Then came the third platoon. And this one was unique because with them was an army photographer named Ronald Haberle. He was there to take photos of, you know, what was supposed to be this big military victory.

And he did take photos. He took photo after photo after photo of what he saw that day. Of dead women and children and elderly people? Yeah. Yeah. Some he shot with his black-and-white military-issued camera, and others he shot with his personal full-color camera. He personally saw roughly 30 American soldiers murder approximately 100 innocent people.

At one point, he saw some soldiers molesting an underage girl, and those men got mad at him when they saw that he was trying to photograph them. At another point, Ronald saw a young child. The child was like five feet away from him. And he went to focus his lens on that child. And by the time he did that, the child had been murdered. So many people were murdered that day. But of course, they weren't just murdered. Women and children were gang raped and sexually tortured. At about 9 a.m. that day, in a scout helicopter overhead, Chief Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson looked down,

and he was horrified by what he saw. This was supposed to be a battle between the U.S. military and the 48th Battalion. Instead, he saw little kids being shot by U.S. soldiers. He saw bodies, babies' bodies, toddlers' bodies, women's bodies, old men's bodies. He couldn't believe what he was seeing. At one point, he saw a woman who was wounded, and he was like, oh my God, thank God this woman's alive. And so he radioed to get the woman help and told them, hey, you know, there's this wounded woman. Here's where she's located. And Hugh Thompson watched in shock as a couple minutes later, a captain walked over to the injured woman, gave her a kick, and shot her. Later, Hugh Thompson and his crew flew above a drainage ditch.

There were a bunch of dead bodies in the ditch, but it was clear that some of the people in the ditch were alive. So he landed the helicopter, and there was a sergeant nearby, and Hugh said to the sergeant, Hey, could you help these people? It looks like a lot of them are wounded. And the sergeant said, Yeah, I'll help them out. Help them out of their misery. Looking back, Hugh said he thinks maybe he was in shock. He kind of thought the guy was joking, but as he flew away, one of the guys on his helicopter said, My God, he's firing into the ditch.

Oh, my gosh. At that point, Hugh and his team were like, holy shit, anytime we ask for help for a wounded person, we end up getting that person killed. After that, they were flying overhead, and they spotted what looked like a woman, an old man, and some children huddled by a bunker. They thought maybe four, three people. Yeah. So Hugh landed the helicopter and walked over to some soldiers and he was like, hey, there's some civilians over here in this bunker. Can you get them out? And one of the soldiers responded, well, we're going to get

them out with a hand grenade. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And Hugh was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, no. Don't do that. So he went over to the bunker himself and discovered that there weren't three or four people hiding. There were actually like 10 people. And he somehow convinced these terrified, traumatized people to follow him. And he made sure to keep them all very close to him.

And he convinced a gunship to land, which I don't even know what that is, but all right, and pick up all those people and fly them to somewhere safe. At another point, a member of Hugh Thompson's crew went back to that drainage ditch and found a little boy. He was covered in blood, and he was surrounded by what had to be his dead family. And they put that child in the helicopter and flew him to an orphanage, because what else

could they do? Meanwhile, the massacre continued. Lieutenant William Calley seemed to take great pleasure in hoarding civilians into a drainage ditch and encouraging his men to open fire. Did he enjoy it or was he just following orders? I don't know. What do you think of this just following orders stuff? No. I mean, I'm sure there was an order at some point. I don't – but there is a moment where you are killing women and children where you step back and say, am I a monster or am I following orders? It's amazing because I've thought a lot about like, God, what would I do in this situation?

And of course you always want to think, well, I would do the exact right thing. But at the same time, when you look at studies of people. I know. And you, yeah. People do terrible things if they feel like they're part of a group. I mean, it's. Yeah. It's sick.

Yeah. And I think especially when you're getting, I'm sorry, kids straight out of high school, and you're giving them weapons and no consequences. Yeah. After one round of gunfire, a two-year-old child got up and tried to run out of the ditch. But Lieutenant William Calley grabbed the toddler, threw him back in the ditch, and shot that child himself. Oh, my gosh. By this point, Hugh Thompson was losing his shit. His crew chief later said that Hugh Thompson ordered him to, quote,

open up on the Americans who were murdering civilians. But later, Hugh Thompson was like, well, hey, I don't remember saying that. I mean, there were some emotions that I was feeling. I get that that's not the answer either. I do get that. But I would have that. Yes, it is. I think.

You're shooting a two-year-old. You have to be stopped. Yeah. No, I completely agree you have to be stopped. Yes. Yeah, I. This is fucking terrible. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Some of the guys talked about, well, you have to obey or you'll be shot. And... I don't know. Yeah. Oof. I don't know. Yeah.

Oof. By the way, you might be wondering where the hell Captain Ernest Medina was in all this. Yeah. You'll be amazed to hear that he arrived at the massacre kind of late. Kind of late. Yeah. Later than everyone else says he was there. So. Oh, so his version is that he came at the end when it was kind of wrapping up and weird things had kind of gotten out of control.

That whole thing went sideways. No, nothing got out of control. What the hell are you talking about? What? Nothing was out of control. Okay. He did get there later than, you know, wrong people say. Mm-hmm.

And he didn't see any of this violence that people are talking about. No, he didn't. No, he didn't witness any of it. The crews in the helicopter overhead could see it. You mean the liars? Okay. They sound crazy to me. No.

I mean, there's— You saw U.S. soldiers shooting babies? Yeah. You sound crazy. No, I see. There's dead babies's... You saw U.S. soldiers shooting babies? Yeah. You sound crazy. No, I see there's dead babies everywhere. I don't see that. Wow. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, didn't see the rapes, didn't see the murders, didn't see a thing. That's real neat. He was busy fixing his hair, I think. Yeah, it was wash day. It was wash day. Yeah. Wash day takes hours. Yeah, it's rough. Should have moved it to another hair, I think. Yeah, it was wash day. It was wash day. Yeah. Wash day takes hours. Yeah, it's rough.

Should have moved it to another day, I think. But, you know, hey, hindsight. By about 11 a.m., Captain Ernest Medina, who once again didn't see a damn thing, was like, Hey, anyone feeling a little peckish? Could sure go for some lunch. And yeah, why not? They broke for lunch. By that point, they had murdered 504 innocent civilians. 210 of those innocent civilians had been under the age of 13.

They'd raped 20 women and girls, the youngest being 10 years old. And I wouldn't be shocked if that number was higher because that is a very tough thing to determine. I bet it's way higher. Yeah. They'd poisoned wells. They'd destroyed homes. All that was left was rubble and dead bodies. And you know something?

Gosh, it's funny. After all that, all that searching for the enemy, all they'd managed to recover was three old rifles in that entire village. Yep. As soon as she felt it was safe, Shang Thile, who had only survived because she and her six-year-old son had been covered by dead bodies, got up to search for her 17-year-old daughter. She found her daughter along a trail with about 104 other dead and dying people. Her daughter was still alive, and she was clinging to the body of her dead grandmother. Oh, my gosh. And the girl said,

Mom, I'm bleeding a lot. I have to leave you. Fuck, Kristen. This is fucking terrible. It is terrible. Full disclosure, the reason I'm telling it is it is absolutely atrocious, and I had no idea it happened, and I don't think an American should not know that this happened. Yeah.

So this is a punishment for us all. Sorry. But, Brandy, you seem really upset, and you'll be relieved to know that none of this happened, actually, so just calm down. Yeah, no, the people in charge can say none of it happened, but. Excuse me, who are you to question authority? It for sure happened. There are a lot of ribbons on their uniforms. Do they call them ribbons? They probably don't.

No, I think they do. Oh, all right. All right. Well, how did you calm down? Oh, all right. All right. Well, how did you calm down? The official military report was that the U.S. attack on My Lai had been a great success. Great success.

Where was the success at? Well, I'm glad you asked. They killed 128 enemies. Who are we calling enemies in this? The old men um these were all you know vietcong obviously um you know fighting fighting fighting you know they'd only lost one american life isn't that wonderful yeah the one american who, one source said he shot himself in the foot because he did not want to participate in the massacre. Wow. But Hugh Thompson was livid.

He filed a complaint. He spoke out. He was like, I witnessed war crimes. And I should say, when I say he spoke out, he was speaking through the chain of command. And so the military was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, calm down. Easy, easy with the term war crimes, sir. Honey. But, you know, they talked to Captain Ernest Medina and they were like, hey, hey, hey, okay, how many civilians were killed that day?

Be honest. All right. okay, how many civilians were killed that day? Be honest, all right? And Captain Medina was like, oh, gosh, you know, maybe 20, maybe 28. And, you know, I hate that. I hate that. But these things happen in battle. You know, as you know, sometimes civilians accidentally die. You know, they accidentally catch, you know, a stray bullet.

You know, that's obviously how that all happened. That's how 500 civilians were killed? What? 20 to 28 max. Absolute tops. Okay. Mm-hmm. And, of course, that's what the higher-ups wanted to hear anyway.

So they're like, yeah, that makes sense. That's, you know, a way better version of that story. Uh-huh. Oh, let me help you cover up whatever you need covering up here. Also, I guess that Hugh Thompson fellow was full of shit, huh? You'll be shocked to learn that shortly after Hugh spoke out about the massacre, he found himself getting really dangerous assignments with almost no backup. Yeah.

His helicopter was shot down five times. Wow. On the fifth time, the crash was so bad that he broke his back. Oh my gosh. Yeah, pretty loud and clear, huh? Yeah. But the thing was, like 200 soldiers participated in this massacre, and some of them talked about it. And thank God that some of them talked about it with a guy named Ronald Ridenour. Who's Ronald? Tell us about him. I won't, because right now we have to do an ad. Okay, back to Ronald. Ronald was just this 22-year-old guy from Phoenix. He was serving on a recon unit in Vietnam, and he started hearing stories about a massacre.

And he was disgusted by those stories. So he did his own investigation. He started talking to the men in Charlie Company. He did this very subtly, obviously, as you would have to. But, you know, he just asked them what happened that day, and they told him. They told him horrible stories of what they that day. And they told him. They told him horrible stories of what they'd done and what they'd seen. This obviously was not some perfect investigation.

But, you know, he's just this 22-year-old guy trying to get information and not let on that he's trying to figure out what the hell happened. Yeah. He was trying to figure out what the hell happened. When Ronald was discharged in December of 1968, he got home and he decided that this massacre and its subsequent cover-up could not remain a secret. So he wrote a letter. He sent it to President Nixon. He sent it to Congress people. He sent it to the Pentagon. The letter was beautiful.

He told them everything he'd been told. And he included a quote from Winston Churchill. It read. Oh, sorry. Did you think I was not about to read? I don't know. It seemed like kind of a long pause. I was worried you weren't going to tell us. He included a lot of great quotes.

So just think right now about some great quotes that you have heard. Now, how about I read it to you now? That sounds wonderful. Thank you. It's, a country without a conscience is a country without a soul. And a country without a soul is a country that cannot survive. It's a good quote. Yeah.

Are you satisfied? It's a good quote. Great. Well, a few of the recipients of the letter actually took it seriously. And by April of 1969, the inspector general was charged with investigating the issue. You're making a face. What's the face about? Because, I mean, it's just the same people. They're just going to talk to the same people who are going to be like, oh, no, those people are full of shit.

Fine, tell us all about it. The investigation. Yeah, you know, it was pretty bad. 20 civilians were killed. That's never good. That's never what you want. But none of this stuff happened. These people are just looney tunes. Okay, well, great. Well, how about you listen to this? The investigation took a few months, but september of that year they brought charges against lieutenant william callie oh shit okay yeah all right i'm here for this go ahead and top that oh what is this a teen witch this is a teen witch kristin it could be if you get the better attitude yeah so there was a chance that this might all be done

quietly, which was absolutely what Nixon wanted. I'm sure it is what Nixon wanted. But that's not how it went down. Good. Because the army photographer still had the photos that he'd taken with his personal camera. Yeah. Yeah. In your fucking

face. Pictures are worth a thousand words. A picture never lies. What are some fun picture phrases? I feel like you've just said them. Okay, great. And I don't know that the word fun really fits in this story at all. No, it doesn't at all. I'm just saying, in your fucking face, cover up.

We've got the pictures. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I don't, but the official army photographer did. It's very confusing that there are two Ronalds. His name is Ronald, too? I, um, for longer than

I care to admit, I thought... Thought they were the same Ronald? And I was like, man, this Ronald fella, he really did it all. And, you know, they both did it all, but they were two separate... And then they opened a hamburger restaurant. Okay. All right.

There she goes. Your timeline is way fucked up, just so you know. Okay. We're in the 70s right now, so calm down. You clearly never watched The Founder. All right. I have seen The Founder, actually. You know, I got to say, that's a movie that did a real turn for me. Yeah. I watched it on a plane. And, you know, I got to say, that's a movie that did a real turn for me.

I watched it on a plane. About halfway through, I turned to Norm. I was like, this is shitty propaganda for McDonald's. And boy, oh, me. Were you wrong? Did that turn around. Yeah. Quite enjoyed it. Yes.

All right. That's my review of that film. Didn't see that coming, did you? Okay. So Ronald had those images from his personal camera, and he shared some of them with the media. To this day, they are very famous photos. I guarantee you you've seen these photos because I had seen these photos too. And they shocked the American public.

So now everyone knew about the My Lai Massacre, and people wanted answers. Now everyone knew about the My Lai massacre and people wanted answers. So the Pentagon was tasked with investigating the massacre and three star General William Pierce led the investigation. See, I don't like this when military people are investigating military issues. Let's get a third party in here. Let's get someone. You sound exactly like the American public at this time. We have an open investigation. Somebody third party in here. Let's get someone. You sound exactly like the American public at this time. Everyone was like, we have an open investigation.

Let's get somebody fucking else in here. Somebody whose interest is not in covering this up. Agreed. Yeah, I would have preferred an open one. Yeah. If it makes you feel better. This guy was the real deal. Okay. All right.

All right. Fine. The investigation was extensive, Brandy. They interviewed 398 witnesses, Brandy. And in the end, Brandy, their report recommended that the government take action against dozens of troops for rape, murder, and for covering up the massacre. Okay. I am happy with that outcome. I apologize for my outburst. Please calm down. And please remember that a picture is worth a thousand words. All right.

Meanwhile, the Army's Criminal Investigation Division was still doing their own investigation. You got thoughts on that? I sure do. Anyhow,

but it was kind of bullshit because they knew that a bunch of dudes had committed war crimes, but by this point, most of those dudes were no longer in the military.

And according to a 1955 Supreme Court decision, military courts can't try no longer in the military. And according to a 1955 Supreme Court decision, military courts can't try former members of the military. Yeah, that's going to be a real problem here. Which I'm like, can you get the DAs on the phone? Yeah. I meant the horn. Yeah.

The phone's never fun, but the horn. The horn, yeah. That feels more important. Yeah. But they did decide to try a few people. Are you ready for some justice? Yeah. Yeah. But they did decide to try a few people. Are you ready for some justice? Yeah.

Well, prepare to be disappointed. There's not any. Well, listen to this, will ya? Tiny nuggets of justice. Droppings of justice,

if you will. I don't think we're even getting that. We're not even getting justice droppings. No. I'll tell you something. Kit, I think, really must just love the feeling of trying to poop.

And so. I was really. Well, you brought up droppings. I'm just saying, like, my dog, you know, I buy these bags. Yeah. And these bags. Yeah. And little green ones.

Yes, absolutely. And I will tell you, they're not the cheapest thing ever. Yeah. And these bags. Yeah. And little green ones. Yes. Absolutely. And I will tell you, they're not the cheapest thing ever. No. And they're not the most environmentally friendly. Correct. But you know, what am I going to do? Anyway, sometimes. I think they're made from recycled plastic.

I know they say that. But do we believe? Who knows? Big dog poo. Big bag. Do we believe it? Anyway, what I'm trying to tell you is sometimes she will squat just for the feeling. Dog poo. Big bag. Do we believe it? Anyway, what I'm trying to tell you is sometimes she will squat just for the feeling, just for the satisfaction. Just for the taste of it.

Diet Coke. Yeah. And I, because I'm so afraid that people will see what is clearly a dog pooping and me not picking anything up, that I will. You have to do kind of a ceremonial scooping. And I'm always so annoyed with Kit because I'm like, man. Yeah. Anyhow, that that was important to stop. Obviously.

And have that conversation. Do you have any more thoughts on it? I know I really took a lot of time with that. You looked like you had so much to add. No, I think I got it all out there, unlike Kit. I am sorry, folks. I do feel like it's been a while since I've done a story that's so horrible that I delay it just because I don't want to talk about it. Yeah.

But I think we can all agree that you wanted to hear about my dog and the poop and the bags. I personally did or the listeners? We all did. Oh, okay. God. Anyway. Oh, okay. God.

Anyway, General Samuel Coster was the highest ranking dude who got charged. And he ended up getting his charges dropped. That's neat for him. Oh, hey, calm down. You know what he got? He did get a punishment. You ready for this? He got a slap on one butt cheek.

They didn't even do both of them. They were like, just pull it down partway. Oh, God, you got to pull your pants down? Yeah. You can't be... This has gotten uncomfortable. Why? Why, Brandy? What's wrong?

I don't want it to go. Hmm. Okay. Brandy knows how to spank people. Anyhow, he got a letter of censure. Hmm. Okay. Brandy knows how to spank people. Anyhow. He got a letter of censure. Oh no. How is he going to recover from that? Oh he also got his rank reduced. Oh my god.

Oh boy. The consequences. They're almost too much for me. Oh boy. Colonel Oren Henderson. I mean it's not like a bunch of women and children were murdered. Oh, wait. It is.

Good thing he got his rank reduced. Yeah. That'll teach him. Right. Right. What the fuck? Oh, my gosh. Colonel Oren Henderson was put on trial.

Don't worry. Found not guilty. I could tell put on trial. Don't worry. Found not guilty. I could tell you were worried. Don't worry. We've got no problems with cover ups or any of that stuff. Captain Ernest Medina was charged with 102 murders based on command responsibility. The theory was that he was in charge. So he was responsible for what happened that day, even though I just explained to you that he was washing his hair the whole time.

So I don't know what your fucking problem is. Okay. Yeah. For that trial, Ernest hired a little-known defense attorney named F. Lee Bailey. Oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. You may remember him from such trials as the O.J. Simpson trial.

I believe he also did Sam Shepard. Yep. Does that sound right? That's correct. Boston Strangler also. Yeah. Real good stuff. Anyway, the prosecution had the results of a lie detector test, which showed that Ernest

Medina was being deceptive in his answers about me lie. And, you know, this was before we knew that lie detector tests were bullshit. So everyone was just real jazzed about that evidence. But F. Lee Bailey got that thrown out. Cool. He also. It really should be thrown out, but I don't want good things to happen to this. It's complicated.

It is complicated because, yes, we now know that's bullshit and it should have absolutely been thrown out. But also this guy fucking sucks. Yeah. As we're talking about how bad it is to do a bad thing and then to cover it up, we're also like, can we manufacture evidence to make sure he's held accountable? What do we got to do? It's a vicious cycle, my friends. F. Lee Bailey also managed to keep the jury from seeing Ronald Haberle's photos from the massacre. The jury deliberated for 57 minutes and found him not guilty.

A few months later, when Ernest Medina knew he was in the clear, he was like, yeah, I definitely suppressed evidence, and yeah, I lied about the number of civilians who were killed. Yeah, yeah. What? I hate this shit. Yep. Then it was time for Lieutenant William Calley's military trial. Question that you might not know the answer to.

I know all the answers. 27. He has been charged in military court. And then he's like, yeah, I fucking did it. I lied. I covered stuff up. Can he be charged in criminal court? Does he have military protection that keeps him from being?

He must. I've got to be honest. I don't technically know the answer. Yeah. But my assumption would be that that must be some form of double jeopardy. So that must be some form of double jeopardy. It's not because I know of a case where someone was found not guilty in criminal court but then admitted that he did it. And so then they tried him in military court and he was found guilty in military court.

Or it's the other way. Anyway, it's a case – it's a family annihilator case that had been on my list. All right. Boy, you just had to bring that up, didn't you? Didn't you? Okay. Well, don't I feel like a fool? So, no, I just wonder what the specifications are. Like, because this was a military operation, can he only be charged in military court?

I mean, again, that's what I've been assuming. Yeah, all right. And it could be that maybe they could have tried him in regular folk court. Yeah. But, I mean, if the military court didn't get him, I wonder if the thinking was, what's our shot? Yeah. You know? Yeah.

What? Is the jury made up of military members? Yeah. I think if you have civilians deciding this trial over military people, you're going to have a different result. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Then it was time for Lieutenant William Calley's military trial.

The trial took place in November of 1970. The trial took place in November of 1970. The prosecution brought forth a bunch of witnesses, including the Army photographer and Hugh Thompson. And, you know, on cross-examination, the defense tried to be like, ah, you know, how can we trust this photographer? Well, because a picture never lies. That's that famous saying that people say all the time. No, that's not what they said. You know what they said?

Dude, Photoshop has not been invented yet. That's what they said at the time. And everyone was like, photo what? And they were like, exactly. And then, you know, the defense tried to cross. Well, no, they didn't try. They did cross examine Hugh Thompson. And, you know, they tried to be like, this man's no hero. And, you know, everybody's like, OK, this dude is like the only hero.

The only person that stepped up in this entire thing, it seems like. It's him and his two crew members. Yeah. And everyone else sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Then came the witnesses who actually testified about seeing William Calley. Sorry, and other Ronald.

I don't mean to leave him out because he is kind of the one who got this whole ball rolling by writing his letter. But he wasn't even at the massacre. Right. No, yeah, exactly. Okay. But he was outraged enough to send those letters. Yeah.

Yeah. And he included that quote from Winston Churchill. I'm thinking about it right now. So then came the witnesses who actually testified about seeing William Calley murder people.

One guy, Robert Maples, testified that he'd seen William fire at people in the drainage ditch. He said that William ordered him to use his machine gun on the people in the ditch and that he refused. Another guy, Dennis Conte, said that he'd seen William Calley and a guy named Paul Meadlow open fire on people. And immediately afterward, he'd seen Paul break down crying. Paul was actually the final witness for the prosecution. He'd been given immunity in exchange for his testimony. And yeah, he testified about how William Calley had ordered him to shoot at people, and they'd both done so. Overall, I mean, if you're looking at all these cases, this is probably the most solid one.

And then came the defense's turn. They had two main arguments. First was that William Calley was just following orders. Ernest Medina had ordered them to kill all the people, and that's exactly what he'd done. Second, it was war. It was stressful. The enemy could be anywhere. And in that kind of environment, how could William Calley be expected to think straight? He obviously was not in any condition to premeditate murder. A psychiatrist took the stand to talk about the stress that William had been under. And William Calley took the stand in his own defense. He did? and William Calley took the stand in his own defense. He said, yeah. He said, I felt then, and I still do, that I acted as directed, I carried out my orders, and I did not feel wrong in doing so.

Okay, here's, I can understand the first two. It's still fucking terrible. I can understand. I acted out my orders. What's the other thing he said? I I can understand. I acted out my orders. What's the other thing he said? I acted as directed. I carried out my orders. I carried out my orders.

And I did not feel wrong in doing that. How? How? How can you say that? You killed women and children. You would have to completely believe that you are just doing what you were told. And if you're just doing what you are told, then you're not responsible for shit. Someone else is.

That's so fucked up. Oh, yeah. It absolutely is. But, like, I think that's how you get people to do terrible things in these situations is, like, you're just following orders. And if you've stopped seeing other people as human. Yeah. Yeah. Then why not, right?

Also, this dude's, like, 24. Like, you're giving these incredibly young people. I'm sorry, this guy sounds like a fucking moron. You're giving him a ton of power and a gun. Yeah. Good grief. After that, Ernest Medina was brought in as a witness of the court, which I wondered if that meant that the judge brought – if that's something the judge wanted or something. I would assume that if it was like the prosecution bringing it in.

I don't know. It's military times. I don't know. Anyway, Ernest Medina takes a stand. He's like, William is full of shit. I did not order anyone to kill women and children. You're obviously not supposed to kill women and children blah blah blah and he glared at william the whole time so in closing statements the defense was like earnest medina is lying he knew everything that happened today and now he's lying about it to make william cali responsible responsible for this entire thing. What do you think of this? Oh, boy. Yeah, I mean, I think

that's exactly what's happening. Yeah. I think that's what's I don't know. It's not surprising that that's happening, though, at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The guy who engaged in a cover up is obviously going to find a scapegoat now that it's been uncovered. But at the same time, like, this dude did do a bunch of stuff. Of course he did. That's just it. It's like, there's a part of me that's like, oh, my gosh, this guy is being made a scapegoat here. But also, he is responsible for killing, for murdering people.

Yeah. Yeah. But everyone should be getting some. Yes. Yes. 100%. The jury deliberated for 13 days. Wow.

It was the longest deliberation in U.S. court martial history. Holy shit. They found him guilty. Yeah. He was sentenced to hard labor for the rest of his life. When old Ernest Borgnine or whatever the fuck his name is. Borgnine?

What's his name? Medina. Yeah. What's his first name? Ernest. Okay. What? Ernest Medina. Ernest Borgnine's an old actor. Oh, okay. I had never heard that name. Ernest Medina, when he took the stand and said, absolutely, this is not what you were ordered, 100% that guy's guilty. He's going to be found guilty. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, so he got this sentence, hard labor for life, and people were outraged. At the time, a survey found that four out of every five Americans thought that William Calley shouldn't have been found guilty. Because he was acting under orders? Not necessarily, at least not what I saw. What I saw was that people on the right and the left believed that he was just being scapegoated. I mean, yes, that's what's happening. But also he did murder people.

Yeah. I would like to think that surely it was more about the fact that this can't fall on one person. Exactly. To me, it's not that he's found guilty. It's the other people who weren't found guilty in this. Yeah. So, yeah. Of all the people who carried out this massacre, of all the people who worked to cover it up,

William Calley ended up being the only person to face real consequences. Wow. Well, I don't even know that it's fair to say that. Because William Calley spent one weekend doing hard labor. And then he retired from the military and he was done? Oh, it's not that easy, but it is pretty easy. After that long weekend, President Nixon intervened and placed him on house arrest. And then William Calley appealed his sentence, and instead of life, he got 20 years.

And then he appealed it again, and he got 10 years. And in 1974, he was paroled. So he had served three and a half years in his apartment. Wow. That was it. 200 soldiers had been at My Lai that day. 24 were charged with criminal offenses. And with the exception of William Calley,

everyone was either acquitted or had their cases dismissed. And if the top guys can get away with it, what's the point in prosecuting the little guys? So that's kind of it. Everyone who participated in this just went on. Yeah. In 1998, on the 30th anniversary of the My Lai Massacre, Hugh Thompson and two members of his crew, Lawrence Colburn and Glenn Andreatta, were awarded the Soldier's Medal for bravery that day.

It's a unique medal because, and I can't remember exactly what it is, but it's basically for bravery when you're not fighting against the enemy, which is quite a category. Yeah. There's now a museum at the site of the Mulan. It's one thing to stand up against your enemies. It's a far more difficult thing to stand up to your friends. Who are you quoting now? Albus Dumbledore. Okay.

I thought it was Winston Churchill. No. Did I cause you personal pain by not knowing? No, I was embarrassed. You should be. I know! Oh! There's now a museum at the site of the My Lai Massacre.

At the museum's entrance stands a plaque with the names and ages of the 504 people who were murdered that day. a plaque with the names and ages of the 504 people who were murdered that day. 210 of those people were under the age of 13. 17 of the women were pregnant. The museum contains a diorama of what the village looked like before the massacre, and it contains a bunch of the army photographer's photos. I didn't mention this. He actually had photos of U.S. soldiers murdering people, but he destroyed those because he felt like a lot of people were responsible for this. And he didn't think it was fair to put it on, you know. Those individual soldiers? Yeah. Wow.

Those individual soldiers? Yeah. Wow. The museum also contains celebrations of Ronald Ridenour, Hugh Thompson, and Lawrence Colburn for what they did. Yeah. The director of the museum is a survivor of the massacre. Wow. His name is Pham Thanh Cong.

He was 11 years old when the massacre occurred. He and his four siblings and his mother hid in a tunnel when they heard the American soldiers start shooting. But the Americans found them and threw a grenade inside the tunnel. The grenade killed everyone but him. Oh, my gosh. He talks about the museum and not just as a place to acknowledge the pain of the massacre, but also as a place where people should come back and face what they did. And that's the story of the My Lai Massacre. That's horrible.

And I didn't know anything about that. It's wild had I didn't know anything about that. It's it's wild because I didn't know anything about it. But you hear certain phrasing in that story. You go, oh, I've heard that before. I've heard of Charlie Company. Why have I heard of Charlie Company? You know, just stuff like that stands out. But this is just atrocious. And you have to wonder how many times has something like this happened that we don't know about? this is just atrocious. And you have to wonder, how many times has something like this happened that we don't know about? Yeah. Because the cover-up was incredible,

and you think about all the factors that have to fall into place correctly for this story to get out. Yeah. You wonder about if he didn't have those photos. Mm-hmm. Ugh. Well, that was fucking terrible.

Yeah. Yeah. Oof. Yeah. Okay, so now that I've ruined everything, should we go to the Discord and ask if people have questions? Yeah, let's go take some questions from the Discord. Sorry, everyone.

To get into our Discord, all you have to do is sign up for our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. Ooh. Poorly Flesh Skeleton asks, what is something you learned at an old job you had that you never forgot and is hyper specific? Like I can still easily hold three cups in one hand from when I was a waitress and my best friend has extensive knowledge of printer ink and paper from when he worked for printing companies. Okay, I have one. Mine is – I think that I could still do this. I haven't put it to the test. But my specific skill that I honed working at Walgreens specifically in the photo lab was changing the paper canister that the pictures like the photo paper.

So you can't expose the paper. So you have to do it in a dark room. Right. Or it's Walgreens. So there is in a dark room. So we had this bag that you would put the canister in and had arm holes and you would have to do it blind. But that was like such a pain in the ass to get this bag out and do it that we would just

go. There was like this inside the office. to get this bag out and do it that we would just go. There was like this inside the office. There was this like secure closet where they had like high value items instead of like where overstock went. And so the photo lab, we had access to there because that's where we stored the paper. So you would just go in there. You'd put something across the door.

You'd put the bag that you were supposed to use across the door so no light came in. And then you just had to feel around and do it in the complete dark. Did you smooch anybody in this room? No. Oh, my gosh, no. I'm sorry. This is for serious business only, Kristen. It could get serious.

Tell me, what are the high dollar items at Walgreens that were stored? Well, so like all the cartons of cigarettes were back there, the overstock of cartons of cigarettes, batteries, electronics, small appliances. Never mind. I'm bored. I was expecting a much more exciting answer to this question. My God. All right.

Well, congratulations on that skill. I think I could still do it. You know, I don't know that I've picked up any good skills along the way. Let me think real hard. Do you think you could still handle a sizzling chicken and cheese i was a terrible waitress when i was a waitress so i don't think i don't think adding some years is gonna help at all all right yeah no uh-uh well i just ruined my chances of getting rehired at tGI Fridays when the podcast ends. You sure did.

Okay. I'm going to go ahead and address this because I brought this up on this episode, and I think this is important. I'm not going to read the full question because it's not asked in a very nice way. Oh. Where is this? The question is from BenBenVeryBen, and they are calling me out for being a Harry Potter fan. Oh, okay.

Gotcha. So what I will say is, yes, I am a Harry Potter fan. Harry Potter played a big part in my childhood. However, J.K. Rowling is a TERF and a terrible person, and I no longer buy anything Harry Potter so that I don't support her and give her money. I haven't bought anything Harry Potter in years. So that I don't support her and give her money. I haven't bought anything Harry Potter in years. I still enjoy the things that I already have that I had purchased before learning about how horrible J.K. Rowling is.

But no, yes, she's terrible. She is a TERF. She is actively anti-trans. She spends money on it. And so I no longer buy anything Harry Potter because I will not support that. All right. And that's that. Ina McFly wants to know, Brandi, since you're sadly disappearing

from our lives very soon, can you at least give us a proper goodbye and show us your driver's license photo? Absolutely not. Brandi, it's the least you could do. No. It's the least you could do. 100% no, not a chance it's happening.

What would you do? What would you do? As you know, Brandy, we're going to have some merch at the live show, exclusive merch. And, you know, I've been, you know, getting that set up. What if you show up to the live show and it's just a white t-shirt? You know, we've got the other like live show shirts, but there's a white t-shirt with just a photo of your driver's license photo. What would you do? I would rip them all down.

Wow. Wow. That would be so mean. Don't do that. How would I even do that? Don't do that. How would I do it? I'm asking because I want to know so that I can do it. Kiki2525 says, Brandy, do you have a fear of crabs, a.k.a. the spiders of the sea?

I don't actually have a fear of crabs, but I did have a crab run in one time as a teenager in New Bern. I was in New Bern, North Carolina. And it was in some dude's pubes. No. We were at the beach. I was in New Bern, North Carolina. And it was in some dude's pubes. No. We were at the beach. I was living it up. All of a sudden, ow, something's hurting my leg, my inner thigh. Down low, though, not up by my undercarriage.

No one asked. Anyway, so I'm like getting out. And I was like, I was probably up to my hips in the water. And so I'm like, what is happening? So I turn and I'm like trying to get back to the beach, up to my hips in the water. And so I'm like, what is happening? So I turn and I'm like trying to get back to the beach, trying to get back to the beach. It hurts so bad. And I finally, like, get enough out of the water that I look down.

There's a tiny crab just clinging to my thigh with its little clampy claw. Would you classify this as one of the times when you almost died? No, I didn't almost die. I just ripped it off and threw it back into the ocean. Did it hurt when you ripped it off? It didn't feel great, but it felt better than it. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Very good. Yeah. Richard in Balls wants to know, does Kristen still plan to embezzle from the podcast now that it's ending or will she switch her embezzlement endeavors? Yeah. What the fuck am I supposed to do now? I know. I can't embe invest from this business.

Damn it. You have to come up with a new scheme! I still haven't paid back the embezzlement from Costco. Obviously, the time's ticking. I've got to get that done. Ooh, Richard in Balls asks, What will London's fourth birthday party theme be? I just decided on it.

Are you ready? Hold on. Are you coming up with a guess? Hold on. Or are you just preparing yourself? Hold on. I'm still preparing. Okay.

Okay, this is enough. The longer we wait, the funnier it is to me. She is going to be having an ice cream themed birthday party. We all scream for ice cream. Oh, my God. Shit. That was your birthday party theme? I wasn't prepared.

Stop it. If you'd given me like 12 more seconds, I would have been fine. Okay. All right. Damn it. Anyway, I'm very excited about it. And London loves ice cream. Shall we move on to Supreme Court inductions?

We have eight million. So we have eight million Supreme Court inductions to do. Everyone, we are reading your names and your first celebrity crushes. And once again, with the podcast coming to an end, we are trying to get through our backlog. So if you sign up for our Patreon at the seven dollar or ten dollar level right now, unfortunately, you will not get an induction. And that is Brandy's fault. That's rude.

Renee Hare. Simon Lebon. Hillary Grace. Gordo. Lee. Sebastian Stan. Luranovich. Benji Madden.

Katie Green. Face from the original A-Team. Cary Villegas. Robin Hood, but the Fox version from the Disney movie. Oh my God, did you hear my stomach? Are you hungry? Yes, I'm hungry. I didn't realize when we first started that I was hungry, but now it's taken hold.

Leezeth. Lion-O from Thundercats. Hollith. Brittany Murphy. Ch. Leezeth. Lion-O from Thundercats. Holleth. Brittany Murphy. Chunk Nugget. Erica Strada. Kelly H. Freddie Prince Jr.

Lexi. Zac Efron. Janet Dixon. Will Wheaton. Samantha from the hard streets of Johnson County. Mark Wahlberg. Misty S. Robert Smith.

Zoe E. Krista,. Robert Smith. Zoe E. Krista, the fairy from Fern Gully. Chloe. Shannon Sossman. Miranda. Lance Bass. Feral for Life. Gaston from Beauty and the Beast.

A bad boy. Rebel Without a Clause. Ryan O'Neill. Elena Klocki. David Krumholz. Anne Dickison Patrick Swayze Binge the Cringe

Sandra Bullock Haley Payne Devin Sawa Danielle Matt LeBlanc Caitlin Reckimer Daniel Radcliffe Wren L

Ross Lynch Morgan Aaron Carter Rose Citycrime Rick Springfield Heidi Freddie Mercury. Laura.

Garth Brooks. Lizzie. Zac Efron. Kelly Thornton. Brian Littrell. Wren. John Cusack. The Anne Margaret of Polygraph.

Alex Winter. Deborah McRae. Donny Osmond. Laura Lawrence. Erin Taylor Johnson. Fuck, Laura, that's a cool name. What? Her name is Laura Lawrence. Yeah. Johnson. Fuck, Laura, that's a cool name. What? Her name is Laura Lawrence.

Yeah. Yeah, that's... That's a cool-ass name. It'd be really fun to write, too. I love... Yes! ...an uppercase L in cursive, specifically, obviously. Yeah.

All right, anyhow. All right. Julie Lynn. Jordan Knight. Andrea Betlick. Chris Truesdale. Danielle. Prince.

The other Kristen. Robin Hood. Again, the fox. Goodness Betlick. Chris Truesdale. Danielle. Prince. The other Kristen. Robin Hood. Again, the fox. Goodness gracious. Well, he was a hot fox. Christine Elizabeth. David Bowie. Janie Rabideau.

The blue ninja turtle. Not those other ugly ones. Gloria in excelsis Deo. Neal from One Direction? Niall. Niall. That's not how you spell Niall. He's Irish.

Oh, I guess I shouldn't tell him how to spell his name. He might be just British. I have it in my head that he's Irish, and the Nilehorn fans will tell me I'm wrong. You'd better not be wrong about this. Sabrin Vanhoose. Prince Cornelius from Thumbelina. Carrie Dutton. Ryan Reynolds.

Bane Flores. Brian Krause. Amanda Jay. Taylor Hansen. Queef Queen. Christopher Maloney. Melissa. Josh Hartnett.

Rachel Johnson. JTT. Kateoney. Melissa. Josh Hartnett. Rachel Johnson. JTT. Kate Rainsford. Matt Dillon. Carrie J. Any male celebrity with a mushroom cut. That, yeah. Yeah.

In 95, that was really something. Eamer. Johnny Logan. Lizzie Cracchiolo. Cary Grant. Molly. Josh Hutcherson. Jamie Hodges. River Phoenix. Lesliechiolo. Cary Grant. Molly. Josh Hutcherson. Jamie Hodges.

River Phoenix. Leslie Stoll O'Neill. Mr. Rogers. Kimberly. Jason Bateman. Lura. Nick Carter. Stephanie T.

Shawn Michaels. Jackie Fig. River Phoenix. Erica. Lance Bass. Supreme Courtney. Ah, that's cute. Cartoon Aladdin. Lance Bass. Supreme Courtney. Ah, that's cute. Cartoon Aladdin.

Willow. Xander. Molly Schaefer. Nick Carter. Fuck that bird. Prince. Kara. Jonas Brothers.

Oh, all of them. Lindsay. JC Chazet. Crit. Tiffany Amber Thiessen. Scotty M. Danica McKellar. Megan McFadden. Don Johnson. Amber Thiessen. Scotty M. Danica McKellar. Megan McFadden.

Don Johnson. Aaron Pratt. Zac Efron. Erica Silberman. Val Kilmer. Christine Hinderleiter. The Red Power Ranger. Sarah.

Haken Hackinson from the 1990 movie Shipwrecked. All right. Jesse Blum. Chris Evans. Kim. Andrew Keegan. LJ. Donnie Wahlberg. Ariadne Hamilton. All right. Zach Efron. Penelope. Tom Selleck. Emily Booth. The Kool-Aid Man. Kaylee Mack. Raphael from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Amber Wesson.

Justin Timberlake. Melanie. Bernard, the hot elf from the Santa Claus. Was there a hot elf in that movie? David Krimholtz. Kim Schwent. The second cutest guy in any movie or TV show because my older sister got dibs on the cutest. Okay, I do understand that dynamic a lot, actually.

All right. Sarah Anderson. Mike Vitar. Julie Barlow. Josh Hartnett. Jen W. Corey Haim. Savannah Sessions.

Lance Bass. Welcome to the Supreme Court! Thank you, everyone, for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And head on over to Apple Podcasts, leave us a five-star rating and review, and then be sure to join us next week.

When Brandi will be an expert on a whole new topic, but not a family annihilator because she's on a diet. That's right. Podcast adjourned. And now, a note about our process. a whole new topic, but not a family annihilator because she's on a diet. That's right. Podcast adjourned! And now, a note about our process. For this episode, I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitated it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. So I owe a huge thank you to

the real experts. I got my info from the article, The My Lai Massacre by Douglas O. Linder for FamousTrials.com, the article, The Ghosts of My Lai by Sean Raviv for Smithsonian Magazine, the article The Truth Behind Mulai by Christopher J. Levesque for The New York Times, and the Mulai episode of American Experience.

Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.