Let's Go To Court! - 295: OTP: Lucy’s Career Hits the Fan! (Part 3)

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

This is part three of Kristin’s seven-part series on Lucille Ball. The entire series is out now at www.oldtimeypodcast.com. If you enjoy it, please subscribe to an Old Timey Podcast! 

Hey Let's Go to Court fans, Kristen Caruso here, and in case you haven't heard, I've got a new show. It's called an Old-Timey Podcast. It's a fun, deep-divey history podcast, and I host it with my husband Norm. And this week, I wrapped up a seven-part series on the legendary comedian Lucille Ball. We're dropping a couple episodes of that series here in the Let's Go to Court feed, and if you like it and want to listen to the entire series, hop over to an old-timey podcast. Every episode is out now to binge. So come join us. And while you're at it, subscribe to an old-timey podcast.

Toodles. Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And I'm the internet's number one goofy movie fan, Norman Caruso. Oh, congratulations. Oh, you've got something in your teeth. I do? You do. That's a real treat for the folks at the...

Ew, it's even worse now. You need to go to a mirror. Ew! Ugh! It's even worse now. You need to go to a mirror. Ew. It's like a seed or something. What did you eat? I don't know.

Oh, you know what? What? It was that oatmeal that had like chia seeds in it and stuff. Oh, okay. Well, really gotcha. That's enough. Anyway, Norman, on this episode, Lucy's career hits the fan. Dun, dun, dun!

Wait, you have that, right? The drama. Like it hits the fan in a bad way? Well, what's a good way to hit a fan? You don't want to hit a fan. I'll tell you a good way to hit the fan. to hit a fan. You don't want to hit a fan. I'll tell you a good way to hit the fan.

There's an excellent episode of Doug where he job shadows the mayor for the day and Mr. Swirly calls the mayor for advice because a bunch of chocolate chips are about to hit the exhaust fans

at the ice cream factory. And Doug tells him, why don't you just let the chips hit the fan? And Mr. Swirly says, that's a great idea. and it creates a whole new flavor and everyone gets ice cream at the end of the day. This episode is off to a terrible start

and I apologize to the listeners. Obviously no one of any quality liked the cartoon Doug. We all hated it, right? Don't bad mouth Doug. You bad mouthed Redwall. Look what happened to you. I don't bad mouth doug i know bad mouth red wall look what happened i didn't bad mouth red mouth cats don't dance you denied it even existed i was skeptical yeah and the dozens of cats don't dance fans have come out of the woodwork they're ready to join norm's

army and then you bad mouth the goofy moviey movie. Probably your number one sin. Anyway, let's move on. I do have a mistakes of shame. I do too. But folks, if you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to an old-timey podcast and give us a five-star rating on whatever platform you listen to podcasts. Anyway, business cat mode off. So, Kristen. Yes. You said that you had a mistakes of shame. I do. It's really bad too. Oh boy. I can't wait to hear this. It's about the episode I'm about to tell you. Why do you always do this? It's a preemptive mistake.

Premature mistake. Premature mistake. Premature mistake-ulation. Actually, no, it's not premature. At the end of last week's episode, I was like, oh, in next week's episode, it'll be all about Lucy and Desi creating the TV show we all know and love. Doug. Ha ha. Just kidding. I love Lucy. Mm-hmm.

Well, you know what happened, Norm? What happened? Did the squib get a little too big for you? Oh, that is so... Oh, did you not know how to edit the script? Listen, motherfucker. You know what? You know what I don't appreciate?

What? You know what? You know what I don't appreciate? What? You're doing the exact opposite of what a couple on the internet is supposed to do. You're supposed to worship me nonstop. I'm supposed to do the same for you. Okay?

And then it's all fake and good. And instead, you mock me cruelly. Listen, I got to keep it real. The truth is this grip did get away from me. See? I went in too deep. I was a mess. So, everyone, the story I intended to tell to you today got real big, too big, too meaty. And so I am just cutting her in half.

And I hope you enjoy it. I know. I know. It's a mistake of shame. I feel a lot of shame. It's not a mistake of shame. You know, you did this last episode too where you did like a preemptive mistake. You were just like, oh, I'm saying too much and everyone's going to hate it.

Calm down. That's not a mistake of shame. Here's an actual mistake of shame. Oh, OK. I didn't realize we were competing. In the last episode, we talked about the Disney classic The Lion King and how I blew your mind. And I think all the history hoes' minds when I said Simba and Nala were having sex in that movie. I was very shocked.

However, I referred to Nala as Naya. Oh my God. So I got her name wrong. So I apologize for that. You disgust me. But I do have to explain myself. The reason I called her Naya was because Kristen and I have just wrapped up watching and just like that and there is a character named Naya Wallace and so I had Naya on my mind got the names confused so I apologize especially to all those

Disney adult history hoes out there you don't need to apologize I support them 100% unlike Kristen this concludes another exciting segment of... Mistakes of Shame! That was beautiful. Thank you.

Kristen. Yes. Do you want to do a little previously segment? Previously. No, no, no. It's only on yours previously on an old-timey podcast in last week's episode lucy went to hollywood she honed her craft she made good connections and after years of hard work she established herself as the queen of the B's.

Not B-movie. No, she was not in B-movie. She was the queen of B-movies. Not the best movies, but certainly not the worst. And then one day on the RKO set, Lucille Ball met Desi Arnaz. She was 28. He was 23. She was an established actress. He was a charming bandleader whose talent had taken him from nightclubs to Broadway and now to Hollywood.

Their attraction was instant and intense. People thought they wouldn't last. But on November 30, 1940, they surprised everyone, including themselves a little, by getting married. Whoa! And now, in the thrilling third episode of our series on Lucille Ball, Lucy's career goes to shit. Usually, the trajection is up like this. Yeah. If you have the video version, you're noticing what I'm doing right now. This.

But you're saying it's like this. I'm trying to entice people to sign up for the video with the most boring hand gestures imaginable. You have to keep it. Everyone, he was an arrow going upward. Anyway, so, yeah, what do you mean it hit the fan? I'll tell you. Picture it. It's 1940.

Do we have to go back in time? Thank you, yes. We're in 1940. Let me paint the picture. A war ravages Europe. Oh, we don't care about that. The Battle of Britain rages on. Wait, let me.

Oh, we don't care about World War II? No, shut up. Oh, yeah, who cares? No. Who cares about that little war? I realized how that sounded. That's not how I meant it at all. Oh, my God.

Interesting. No, we care. It's not part of the story yet Is what I'm trying to tell you Okay Also, I'm an asshole So we've established that What are we, 10 minutes in?

Yes Yeah, 15 actually Great Lucy and Desi are married Holy smokes Their elopement had been pretty sudden And now there was so much to do First

I know what that means. No, that's – Plenty to do. Well, they were banging for sure, but that's not what I'm talking about. Sexy times. It's not like a new thing. Here's the new thing they're doing. They bought a beautiful piece of property.

It was a five-acre ranch between the Santa Susana Mountains and the Simi Valley. Can you read that again? Where did they buy the property? Where have you been? You've been in this studio the whole time? Did you say Santa Susanna Mountains and the Simi Valley. Can you read that again? Where did they buy the property? Oh, where have you been? You've been in this studio the whole time? Did you say Santa Susanna? Yeah. Santa Susanna, I want you to come to me.

I come from Alabama with a man named Desi. Oh, you know what? I wanted to hate it, but that was pretty good. Sorry, I come from New York with a man named Desi. I come from New York City with a man named Desi. All right. Well, that was beautiful. Everyone's turned it off by now.

This podcast is destined to fail. They built a big ranch house with floor-to-ceiling windows and a beautiful pool. You've always wanted a pool. Yeah, I have. God damn it. Thanks for bringing it up. Too bad. Too bad. Too bad.

Not happening. Folks, you need to get on that $10 tier so Kristen can get a pool. Listen, I'm a Missouri gal. I'll be happy with an above ground, okay? I'm not picky. She got the hot tub. She's loving it, and she's ready to upgrade. Ready to cool off.

Now she wants the pool. They had chickens and calves, a huge vegetable garden, and five cocker spaniels. That's a lot of dogs. Okay, but they've got help. All right? You know, it's not just the two of them out there. They're rich. Don't worry about them.

They had movie star neighbors like Clark Gable and Carol Lombard. Wow, Clark Gable was their neighbor? Yeah. What was he like, did they say? I'll get to it a little bit later. Oh, I'm excited. But no, they were really good friends. Okay.

Their neighborhood, if you could call it that, was full of movie stars who wanted to get away from the hustle and bustle of Hollywood. You know, some couples did a cute thing where they combined their names to create a name for their new home. And Lucy and I- A ship name. Yes. Yeah. I just learned that term from our very cool niece. Yeah. The other day. Don't worry, I'm cool. No cap. So they started brainstorming ideas for their ranch. They thought about naming it Arnaball.

Arnaball? Arnaball. Arnez Ball. That's a terrible name. What about this one? Ball Arnez. No. Okay, how about this?

Ludez. No. How about this one? Arbol. Arbol's not bad. Okay. Well, I'm going to say, thank the good Lord, they settled on Desilu. That's the best one.

Yeah. It's pretty, don't you think, Desilu? Desilu. Yeah. Do you know why that's cool, Norm? You don't. I'm looking at your face. You don't know why the word desilu is cool that's not even a word desilu oh my god norman it's what they would one day call their very

famous production company desilu oh brother well i don't know yeah all you know all you know is every song from a goofy movie by heart it's like you're asking a fish why he can't climb a tree, okay? It's not fair. I don't know. Lucy and Desi were living like movie stars. And there was a lot about their first few years of marriage that didn't work.

But there were good times, too. They loved to have friends and family out to Desilu Ranch. Their friends Virginia O'Brien and Kirk Allen, who was the original Superman, by the way. Really? Yeah. They hung out at the ranch all the time. I had no idea.

Mm-hmm. Had no idea about what? I guess I didn't know there was like a live-action Superman before the Christopher Reeves movies of the 70s and 80s. Well, stick with me, kid. You're blowing my mind. Mm-hmm. Oh, get ready for this one. Virginia noted that Lucy loved to serve the following appetizer.

Are you ready? I hope you're not too hungry because this is going to get you. Tell you what, if any of them have Miracle Whip, I'm there. Oh, here we go, folks. What you got? Okay, picture it. It's a saltine cracker. Got that.

Okay. Then you smother that in cottage cheese. Okay, just a thin layer of cottage cheese. Oh, we're not done. Nope. And on top of that, a dollop of strawberry jam. Mmm. Who's hungry? Who's hungry?

Who's hungry? Honestly, with the jam, that might make it okay. I can see... Norman. I can see that working, yeah. Norman, are you gonna eat this? I'm gonna make it for you

and you're gonna eat it. No, I don't like cottage cheese. I know you don't. Very few people do. But I have such a sophisticated palate. I can understand the texture-flavor combo of this little appetizer. Wow. Whore's divorce is what I call it.

I can understand that maybe being good. I am going to make this for you, and I will shove it in your mouth. Get on that $10 tier tier and you can watch me eat one of these uh by the way it's at this point that i would like to inform you that it was desi who was the cook of the relationship the cuban guy yeah yeah i bet yeah you've got desi who grew up making delicious cuban food versus lucy who has a saltine with cottage cheese and a dollop of strawberry jam, which you say sounds good. And yet you are not interested in trying it. I did not say it sounded good.

I heard your tummy rumble. You were like, oh, hang on. I just said I can understand that working, that flavor combo working. He's an intellectual, everyone. This is a podcast for intellectuals and classy people we call our fans history hoes what more do you need to know about this podcast not a damn thing so people would come out to desilu ranch for parties or little get-togethers and they'd play games and desi would cook incredible cuban food and it was kind of funny because at first people were like a little hesitant

because it looked so spicy. No, it was so spicy. I don't know about this, Glenn. But the second they tried the food, they were hooked. Yeah, it's probably delicious. There were some cultural differences, though. People would come over for a dinner party and, you know, they'd expect to eat at like six or seven. But Desi was never in a rush.

Sometimes the food would be ready at midnight. And, you know, what's wrong with that? Oh, my God. Like at the dinner party episode of The Office where Jan makes the meal and it's ready at like 10.30 at night. Wow. That's a cultural thing, right? Yeah. So I feel like culturally, you know, in America, we are very like, you invite me over for dinner.

Okay. I expect that, you know, there's going to be maybe half an hour where we're sitting around chit-chatting, but there's going to be an appetizer and then I'm going to eat my meal at 630 on the dot. Whereas I feel like in other cultures, it's more of like, you're here to hang out and enjoy. And, you know, this could drag on to the wee hours of the morning because we're having a good time. You know, us Americans are like, I have a bedtime. I will have 12 saltines and be on my way. Thank you. You want to hear a Midwest cultural difference? Oh, boy. You familiar with the Midwest goodbye? Are you asking me? Yes, I am. Yeah. So you, you know, you gather around by the door

and you everyone hugs. Oh, great to see you. Great seeing you. But you the door and everyone hugs. Oh, great to see you. Great seeing you. But you don't leave quite yet. Then you talk for 20 more minutes by the door and then you say goodbye again. Everyone, I met Norm in North Carolina. I dragged him to the Midwest where we now live. Drag me kicking and screaming.

And he does not appreciate all the beauty of my culture. In her autobiography, Lucy told a story about a dinner party they threw where all the guests were just like starving. They'd been at the house for hours and, you know, they'd had plenty to drink. They'd eaten all the appetizers. Three sheets to the wind. I mean, she didn't say that, but I'm imagining. Where does that phrase come from? I have no idea.

Future topic. Very drunk. The house smelled amazing because, you know, Desi's cooking up a storm. And they waited and waited and waited. Yeah. Until finally, at midnight, Desi came out of the kitchen and into the dining room holding a casserole dish. And he was like, hey, the food's ready. And right as he said that, he dropped the food all over their brand new white carpet.

Ugh. And everyone was so hungry that they just picked up their dinner plates and served themselves off the floor. Oh, God. That's funny. That's disgusting. OK. Anyway, they were having fun. Do you know how gross carpet is?

Yeah, it's disgusting. But also I'm sure these people were three sheets to the wind. We have no idea what that means. And also they were very hungry. And I'm sure that carpet was pretty darn clean. You know, I bet when the casserole hit the ground, it made a noise like this. Norman, this podcast will have no listeners. I guarantee you because of that sound.

That is the grossest sound that has ever been invented. Challenge accepted. I will find an even more disgusting sound for the soundboard. Oh, great. Lucy's friends had been a little suspicious of Desi. They thought maybe he was using her to get ahead. They didn't like the flagrant womanizing. But those dinner parties at the ranch allowed Desi to be himself. And he was funny. He was charming. You couldn't help but like him. He's an entertainer.

Well, yeah. And also, like, a good guy to be around. And also, it was so obvious that Lucy adored him. And he loved her. What Lucy wanted more than anything was togetherness. And what they both wanted more than anything was to have children. And it seemed at first like that might happen. How does that happen? I have no idea. And that's why you and I, 11 years deep into this marriage almost,

remain childless. We just don't know how to do it. How do you make a kid? No, the real reason is because I took the D.A.R.E. Pledge of Virginity. I pledged my virginity to my middle school resource officer. You said, not only will I not do drugs, I also won't have sex ever. And he was like, son, maybe just save it for marriage.

It's the early 2000s. That's what we're asking folks to do. No, no, no. Please print off that certificate and I will accept it. I will proudly sign. I'm going to make a mock dare pledge of virginity certificate and put it back here. Display it proudly. Maybe that can be a perk at the $10 tier as well.

You get a Dare Pledge of Virginity certificate. I don't think anyone's going to want that. Watch. Watch how many history hoes demand their own Dare Pledge of Virginity certificate. It'll have the little, it'll have the lion with the Dare shirt on. Well, yeah, it fucking better. Yeah, it'll have a huge erection. I don't remember that part of the logo he's so horny he hasn't had sex yet good for him good for he's not wearing pants so you're gonna see the full erection

it is always interesting how they always put the cartoon characters in t-shirts no pants winnie the Pooh. What about a goofy movie? Did they wear pants? They wore pants. Oh, don't. Good lord, Kristen. I'm so sorry.

You know, I'm more of a normal person. I watched that movie as a child like once. I don't think you did. I did. So they want to have kids. Yes. Very brave. Very brave?

What do you mean? I'm scared of children. They're very brave to have children, to make their own. You are terrified of children. I am. What do you think the children are going to do to you? That's the thing. I don't know. They're so unpredictable.

It makes it scary. But they had some issues that they kind of needed to work through. that they kind of needed to work through. Lucy was obviously the bigger star, but at this point, Desi had a contract with RKO, which meant that they were working for the same studio. But Desi's movie career didn't take off. He did a movie called Four Jacks and a Jill,

and it sucked. Did it bomb? Oh, yeah. Big time. I'm fascinated by box office bombs. Why? I don't know. You do love a really bad movie. Yeah, the first thing – like when I'm looking up a movie, one of the first things I look for is how did it do at the box office?

Really? Yeah. So sometimes on Wikipedia they'll list the budget of the movie and then right under it how much it made at the box office. Wikipedia, they'll list the budget of the movie and then write under it how much it made at the box office. Like Cats Don't Dance was a huge bomb at the box office. Which is weird because 12 of you love it. Don't mess with us, Kristen. The canceling is a coming.

Desi got a role in the movie Father Takes a Wife. And his singing was so bad. Oh, yeah. He's a pretty bad singer, right? Well, no, no, no. His singing is passable. It's okay. He's really more of an entertainer.

But, you know, I don't think that Desi would ever be like, yeah, my singing is average. But he goes and does this movie and it was so bad that it was dubbed over. Oh, no. Ouch. That's quite an insult. Desi was embarrassed. In fact, he was embarrassed by a lot of things. One of them being how he was perceived in relation to his wife.

So Desi was sexist. He believed that as the man, he should be the head of the household. He should be in charge. I'm kind of liking these ideas. Yeah. What else does he have? Nothing. And for the record, Lucy believed that too. You know, she was obviously very progressive, but she was a product of her generation. Right. And she wanted them to have that very traditional relationship. But, you know, they'd go out to movie premieres and everyone fawned over Lucy. Rightfully so. She was the star.

One night they went to a premiere and when Desi asked the valet to bring him his car, the valet yelled, Lucille Ball's car, please. Ooh, I bet that made his blood boil. How would you do with this? Me? Yeah.

Oh, I love it. Yeah. Yeah. When I went to ObsessFest last year, it was my first time, and all the fans were coming and talking to you. I was so proud standing this side. I was like, look at my wife doing such an awesome job. Look at all these people that love the work she's doing. I was so proud. That's so sweet. I can see how it would be hard though. I legit can't. I don't understand. Really? I don't get when men are threatened by their significant other making more money than them. I have one buddy who's like that.

That will remain nameless. Yeah. But I'm just like, why? Who cares? Like that's awesome if they're doing great in their career. Right. And it benefits you too, my dude. Yeah. Yeah, my dude. Yeah.

Yeah, that's toxic shit. That's, my dream is for Kristen to make all the money and I get to become houseboy. Well, you're off to a really bad start by doing this podcast with me. Why did I do this podcast? I don't know. Jeez.

All I want to do is talk about cats don't dance all day and be a house boy. So Desi, unlike you, found those instances to be slights against him. He found them emasculating and humiliating. He told Lucy that he didn't want to be seen as Mr. Ball. And it was frustrating for her because she didn't want him to be Mr. Ball either. That's not what she was asking for. Quit making that face. You're enjoying that too much. But, you know, Lucy could only do so much to change the way other people viewed their relationship.

She tried talking him up to other people. But, you know, sometimes that can backfire, honestly. It feels like you're trying a little too hard. Have you met my husband? Yeah. This is my husband, Desianez. He's so smart. He's so great at everything he does. You know, it just feel—it can feel a little fake.

You should have tried his carpet casserole the other night. It was delicious. Carpet casserole. That sounds like a dirty word for vagina. Yes, absolutely. Carpet casserole. That sounds like a dirty word for vagina. Yes, absolutely. Carpet casserole. Filthy. Eat up.

So Lucy and Desi were navigating. I'm sorry. Lucy and Desi were navigating married life and Lucy was continuing to plug away in Hollywood. But by this point, she'd put in her dues. She was the queen of the Bs and she was ready to move up. Time to get in those A's. That's right. Get in the A, as they say.

Yeah. So she searched for opportunities and it looked like she'd found one. Oh? She read the script for a comedy called Ball of Fire. Balls! Oh my God, that is getting a comedy called Ball of Fire. Balls! Oh my God, that is getting a lot of use. You're going to have to tell people where that comes from. You mentioned it on the bonus episode.

Oh, that's from the Super Mario World cartoon. Yoshi talks in that cartoon and he says balls in one episode. Balls! Just like that. She read the script and she loved it. She knew this was going to be a hit. And she knew that if she could just land the lead role, she'd kill it. The funny thing is, like no one else, including the movie's director, thought it would be very good.

Interesting. Mm-hmm. Do you know why? You know, that's funny. I guess I don't really know why it didn't land with people. But let me tell you a little more because this, I think, is a factor. Studio executives offered the lead role to Ginger Rogers. Not familiar with her.

Shut up. Barbara Stanwyck. Oh, my God. That is my grandma's favorite actress. She loves Barbara Stanwyck. Yeah. Well, and we watched an old movie with your grandma like a year ago, and we both kind of became obsessed with Barbara Stanwyck because she was so good in it. Yeah, she was great. And they offered it to a bunch of other big names. So I mention that just because I think this can be a factor too.

Like if you know a bunch of other actresses have passed on the role, maybe then it's just like, oh, well, it's because it's bad. And maybe no one's really reading the script and thinking about it critically. But Lucille Ball was and she wanted this role. Have you ever heard that story about Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone? No. OK. So Schwarzenegger and Stallone were kind of rivals in the late 80s and early 90s because they were both trying to be the action hero.

Right. Right. There is a movie coming out called Stop or My Mom Will Shoot. Really? Starring Estelle Getty from The Golden Girls, Sophia. Oh, OK. Excellent. Stallone heard a rumor that Arnold was reading the script for it.

Uh-huh. And I guess Arnold read the script and was like, this movie is going to suck. I don't want to do this. Well, Stallone called him up and was like, hey, what do you think? What do you think? And Arnold was like, I think it's a pretty good script. think I'm gonna take it and Stallone was like shut up no I'm gonna do it and he Stallone got the part and it like was a huge box office bomb uh-huh I I kind of like stop or my mom will shoot but first of all I'm terrible about titles like I'm terrible

I can't write headlines can't come up with anything. That's the kind of movie title that I would come up with and be like, this is great. Stop! Exclamation point. Or my mom will shoot. That was the name of the movie. Yes. Period.

Right? Yes. Yeah. I love it. Box office bomb. Kind of like how I wanted to name this podcast. James Madison was five foot four i thought it was brilliant i thought everybody would hear that be like amazing no one voted for

that name for this i got like 16 votes out of 1800 it was me 15 times and my mom yeah so the movie's balls of fire no ball of fire ball keep your balls out of this so singular ball of fire ball of fire and ginger rogers is like ew no barbara stanwick ew no all these big actresses ew no they don't want any part of this movie but lucy got the role she was pumped she convinced rko to lend her out to goldwyn so she could do this movie. Finally, she had a movie that was worthy of her talent. Lucille Ball was going to be a comedy star. But then, at the last minute, Barbara Stanwyck was like, actually, I will do that movie.

Ah, fuck. And guess what? They fired Lucille and Barbara Stanwyck. Of course, yes. Yeah. The movie became a huge hit. And Barbara Stanwyck won an Oscar for it. What?

Yes. This movie that everyone thought was going to suck. But Lucy was like the one person who knew it was going to be good. And she wins the Oscar. Well, I guess you got to feel good about that. That you were like, I knew this movie would be a hit. You got to feel good about it. No. Whose side are you on? You would feel like a toad.

Listen, I know your grandma loves Barbara Stanwyck, but you're on Lucy's side today, sir. We stan Barbara Stanwyck. Okay. We call them Stanwycks. So, in other words, everything was back to normal. God, that fucking sucks. Yeah. I'd be so mad.

It would be brutal. It would be brutal. Lucy found herself relegated to unimpressive roles on unimpressive movies. And then Lucy got a real ego crusher. Oh, boy. The studio decided to do some market research on all of its movie stars. This sucks. I could never be an actress. This would be terrible. And was she like the least recognized star of RKO? Wow. You've got some good insight there. Okay. First off, let me just say at this point in her career, Lucy was making $3,500 a week.

Adjusted for inflation, that's about $80,000. Very expensive. Yeah. That made her one of RKO's better paid movie stars. So they did some research and said, ooh, maybe we're kind of overpaying for this Lucille Ball lady. Basically, yeah, they expected that their market research would show that people knew Lucy and that they loved Lucy. I love Lucy. Oh my God. I don't love Lucy. I don't know who Lucy is. Who's Lucy? What it showed was that two-thirds of moviegoers could look at a photo of Lucille Ball and have no idea who she was. Yeah.

Again, this is not like the general public. These are the people who go to movies regularly. And she's the queen of the bees and they don't know her so movie fans see a picture of lucille ball and they're like yep wow yeah that is a neat that you know you said the term ego crusher that would crush someone's ego um that was just the start of it oh god okay um it also showed that 58 percent of moviegoers didn't even recognize the name Lucille Ball. Ouch. Some of them were like, oh, that sounds familiar.

But they couldn't identify that she was an actress. Some of them might be like, okay, I recognize the name. The name sounds familiar, But is she in politics? Is she? So they didn't know she was an actoress. Oh, the name sounds familiar, but maybe not the job. Yeah. Or their profession.

They couldn't identify her as an actress. OK. By the way, this is the second time on this podcast that you have said actoress. Yeah. And any fresh hoes will have no idea what you're talking about when you say actoress. Kristen had a diary when – Everyone. She was a young child and she had dreams of becoming –

An actoress. An actoress. That's how I spelled actress. Yeah. In the most dramatic fashion. Yeah. So now we always say actoress. That's how I spelled actress. Yeah. In the most dramatic fashion. Yeah. So now we always say actoress around this house. I kept a lot of journals.

I had a lot of dramatic feelings. My favorite was when I absolutely roasted the shit out of my mom when she didn't let me go to the mall. Did I call her a bitch in all caps with a blue marker? I sure did. Yes. Stand by it. Proud of it. In fact, when I read it back, I underlined it. I added more. I wrote more in there. So back to this market research. When the survey takers were shown a photo of Lucy and just asked to describe her, they used words like cheap, common, and a hussy. Cheap? Yeah.

What do they mean by cheap? Low class. Low class lady. Here's the funny thing. I mean, I guess I'm kind of abusing the word funny. That sounds awful and it is awful. But RKO was, like, pleased as punch about that feedback because cheap common hussies tended to sell a lot of movies.

So they give her this feedback, and they're like, we're thrilled. And she's like, okay. So what movies is she getting now? Same old crap, but hang on hang on we're we're still i'm still trying to tell you about this survey okay wow okay that year when lucy's contract came up for renewal a friend tipped her off that she should not ask for a raise so she didn't but gotta got you gotta get that confidence though well no no no you've got no you've got to read the room rko is like we are paying you so much money and then here come these

survey results that maybe she's not worth what she's being paid so yeah she i think she was smart to not ask for a raise so maybe it's like oh i might like piss them off if I'm like, give me a raise. Okay. Better to stay where I'm at. As a non-threatening boy, I completely understand. I was going to say, yeah, you're acting all tough, but man. I'm all talk. No action.

But there were bigger things to worry about. Namely, World War II, which I do care about. Earlier in this episode, you claimed you didn't care about World War II. I spoke too soon. Change of heart. I spoke too soon, and I regretted it immediately. Wow. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Desi actually tried to enlist in the military.

But since he wasn't a U.S. citizen yet, he wasn't allowed to serve. Yep. So instead, he joined what was called the Hollywood Victory Caravan. Equally as important as serving in the military. Okay. This was basically a bunch of really cool, famous people selling war bonds. It sounds like a blast. Yeah, so it's kind of like the USO show. Yeah, yeah. Desi was always very patriotic, so he was excited to do this. But being on the Hollywood Victory Caravan put Desi on the road a lot.

On the open road? No, no, no. Oh, my God. I've triggered the Goofy movie. Do you need a break from modern living? Do you love to shed your weary bones? Hey, boys, is this the way to Nashville? Watch it, Mac, or you'll be getting towed.

I'm in no hurry to arrive, because I'll be toying 65 the next time I see the open road. Norm, are you a Disney adult? Am I? Well, I feel like I'm discovering this about you. Did I accidentally marry a Disney adult? Are there support groups for this? Because there should be. I don't know why you would need to go to that.

Disney adults are wonderful. I'm realizing you've kind of bamboozled me because when I think of a Disney adult, I think of someone who wears a lot of the gear and they want to go to Disney World. But you hate crowds. I do. So Disney World is not my thing.

I just enjoy the movies and the shows and the cartoons, pretty much everything about Disney. Oh, boy. Great. That is one cool thing about being in Kansas City. It was the home of Walt Disney's first animation studio. Laugh-o-gram. So suck on that, everyone else. Yeah.

I don't know why I'm feeling defensive all of a sudden. Anyway, Lucy wanted monogamy from her husband. As any, well, no. Some people. Yeah, some people are, they have an open marriage or they have an understanding, you know. You were bringing your own shit into this, weren't you? I was. Monogamy was never Desi's strong suit, especially when he was on the road. What was that? That was me. Oh, boy.

Oh, boy. Cheating on the road. Sorry. That's the sound I make when I bust. Ew. I'm about to bust. When Desi was on the road, let me tell you something. Desi fucked everybody.

His womanizing was so open that even some of the other dudes on the caravan, who were also cheating on their wives, were like, dude, this is too much. Whoa, man. Look, I get it, but, like, let's calm down. Well, and that pissed Lucy off because Lucy was like, I get it, but let's calm down. Well, and that pissed Lucy off because Lucy was like, do you know how bad it is in Hollywood for someone to develop a reputation as a cheater? Oh, yeah.

You've got to be fucking everything that moves. You've got to be so ridiculous about it. So just to be clear, Lucille wanted monogamy. Yeah. Desi said, eh, I don't think so. Well, it's not. Or did he say, of course, monogamy? Yeah. Definitely.

But then. Yeah, exactly. He expected, I think, what he grew up singing, seeing. Singing, singing, singing. I'm going to cheat on my wife. No, you know, his father, his uncles, his grandfather, you know, like they had all had the wife and the kids and also La Casa Chica with the mistress and the other kids. Yeah. And Desi saw no problem with that. He thought everyone was

happy with that. And, you know, I mean, maybe there's a situation where that is happy for some people, but that's not what Lucy wanted. Yeah. And so he was being dishonest with her. Yeah, absolutely. So he's being an asshole. Get a load of how dishonest he was. OK. You know, Lucy's no fool.

OK. So she had suspicions about what he was up to. And they'd get in these big arguments where she'd accuse him of cheating and he'd yell that he wasn't cheating, except for he definitely was. He was so committed to gaslighting that years later in his memoir, he wrote that if during this time Lucy had walked in and caught him in bed with another woman, he would have jumped out of that bed and been like, oh my God, how the hell did this woman get in bed with me? What? Yeah.

He's owning it. He's like, I was lying to her so boldly that if she'd caught me in bed with another woman, provided we weren't like actively having sex, I would have made up some story. I hate that. Yeah. So a habitual liar. Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. Why do you think he was doing this so blatantly and so openly?

I think there's a level of disrespect there. Yeah. To like blatantly lie like that. Oh, sure. Yeah yeah you don't respect your partner you don't respect them and so you're just like yeah i can just get away with all these lives whatever yeah that's that could be it too i was thinking if he's feeling disrespected in hollywood if he's feeling like everyone thinks he's mr ball he's you know uh-huh propped up by his thinks he's Mr. Ball, he's propped up by his wife, he's not his own man, then maybe this is his very misguided way of trying to – you're making a face at me,

but I think I'm getting – I think I'm coming to a logical conclusion here that he wants to show everyone, no, it's not all about her it's about me i can do what i want it's shitty it's okay i thought you were going down a path of justifying his no no but i was very interested because one of the things that the author kathleen brady talked about in her book was that you know the thing about what he saw modeled as a child with his dad and his grandfather and his uncles was discretion. They were cheating, but they were discreet about it. But then Desi's in this marriage and he's not discreet about it at all. Yeah. And so to me, that's that just strikes me as he's trying to prove something to somebody.

And he's openly admitting that like if Lucy walked in, he'd be like, oh, my God, my dick slipped in this woman. What happened? Yeah, years later in his memoir, which he wrote long after they divorced and everything, he wrote that. So things weren't great at home, but Lucy had reasons to be kind of suddenly a little optimistic about her career oh she got a role in the movie the big street the big street the big street they were gonna call it the little street but then they did market research and they said let's go bigger yeah yeah the original title was stopper my mom will shoot but But everyone agreed that sucked. This is the worst fucking title I've ever heard. So they switched to James Madison was only 5'4".

They also hated that. So they stuck with The Big Street. She'd be starring alongside Henry Fonda, who would one day be the father of Jane Fonda. But at this moment in time was writing... And Peter Fonda? Peter Fonda? Who the hell is that?

I mean, I know he had other kids. The son of Henry Fonda. Younger brother of Jane Fonda? Peter Fonda? Who the hell is that? I mean, I know he had other kids. The son of Henry Fonda, younger brother of Jane Fonda. What did he do? He won the Academy Award for Best Original Screenplay for Easy Rider in 1969. Oh, okay. And also won the Academy Award for Best Actor in 1997 for Uli's Gold. So Henry Fonda, one day the father of Jane Fonda, one day the father of Peter Fonda, at this moment in time was riding high off of his recent Oscar nomination for The Grapes of Wrath.

Ooh. Mm-hmm. This was a big deal. Finally, the Queen of the Bees was going to be in an A movie. But ironically, she'd be playing a B. Oh.

Lucy would star as Gloria Lyons, a woman who'd been pushed down the stairs and was now in a wheelchair and was acting like a total bitch. Well, at least she got into an A movie. Yeah, yeah. But not a great role, I guess.

Well, no, it's a great role. But here was Lucy's fear. Lucy's fear was that if she played this horrible woman in this very big, famous movie, that audiences would think she really was a horrible person. But she's in a movie. Do people really think that? Yes, people really think that. Are you kidding me?

Actors talk about that all the time, that if you can get typecast as something or like, you know, people associate you with a role. Yeah, I gotcha. I'm not getting in an elevator with Anthony Hopkins. He might eat me, you know? But her friend told her, if you're going to play a bitch, play the bitchiest bitch who ever lived or don't play the part at all. I'm a bitch. I'm a lover.

I'm Hulk Hogan. Hey there, brother. I saw that TikTok the other day. Brother. So that's exactly what she did. Lucy worked her ass off. And Henry Fonda, okay, I didn't write this part down. He was a dick the whole time.

What? He was like, you're going to, you know, he's thinking he's hot shit because he was nominated for an Oscar. And, oh, he's stuck on this movie with the Queen of the Bees. So, like, she's rehearsing her ass off trying to get things right and the director was like oh you're doing such a great job and right before her big scene henry fonda was like you're not gonna do it like that are you oh brother this guy stinks uh-huh he sure does oh fun fact Although not a fun fact. I also didn't write this down.

But sometimes Henry Fonda is referred to as like an ex-boyfriend of Lucille Ball's. Really? Why? No, because people are wrong. Here's what really happened. Did they think they had like an affair or something? No, calm down. This was before Desi.

They went on like a double date ooh and the date lasted like well into the next day you know they were all out

having fun having a great time Rita's Italian ice P.F. Chang's they went bowling the works mm-hmm the hours we were on

and sun comes up. Lucy's makeup looks like shit, I guess. And he looked at her and he goes, ew. Norman. Sorry, the way you said ew. Ew. Well, yeah, that's not nice.

He's a douche. He later was like interviewed about that on a talk show and was like oh perhaps if I behaved myself on that date it would be called Fonda Lou Studios or some shit like that how about you fondle these nuts Henry Fonda

I really hope I'm not wrong that that was actually Henry Fonda who did that I guess if I am wrong you'll find out in Mistakes of Shame next week. Stay tuned, folks. Yeah, we might be doing some post-episode research because we could get sued by the Fondas. We don't have the money for that.

Yeah. We're trying to get a pool. Can you imagine the write-up in the documents? Host of an old-timey podcast, Norman Caruso, said he made fun of our dear father, Henry Fonda, saying Fondle Deez Nuts. Don't say that while I'm drinking. So anyway, in conclusion, Henry Fonda was a bit of a douche. But Lucille Ball knew that this was a huge opportunity for her.

So she acted her ass off, stole the show. She was incredible. Critics praised her performance. Oh. But, but, but. Box office bomb? Yeah, like nobody saw the movie. So it was like Cats Don't Dance.

It was exactly like Cats Don't Dance, they said. What a shame. It kind of confirmed what the RKO execs had been thinking for a while, which was that, yeah, Lucille Ball was a hard worker. Yeah, she was great to work with. Everyone in the industry respects her. But she can't make money off of her. She doesn't have the it factor.

OK, so she can't be a leading lady. But like, I thought she was queen of the bees. Right. But there's only one to keep her around for those. But I guess she didn't want to do those. She wanted to break through. She wanted to do bigger movies. And, you know, the critics kept saying she's really, really talented. She's being held back by these shitty scripts and these, you know, low budget movies. Give her something bigger. And then she gets something bigger and she does a great job. But people didn't want

to come out and see it. The movie execs, they want to sell the tickets. She's not getting butts in seats as they say. This is exactly why J-Lo cancelled her world tour. Can't get butts in those seats. Oh my god, J-Lo. How many documentaries did J-Lo canceled her world tour. Can't get butts in those seats.

Oh, my God. J-Lo. How many documentaries did J-Lo make? Like five at one time? Like three. I just remember we were browsing Amazon Prime looking for something to watch. And I was like, huh? You were like, is something wrong with the remote?

Why do we care? Yeah. I was like, oh, a J-Lo documentary. And then I would scroll down and then there's another J-lo documentary and i was like huh okay and then there's another one can you imagine making propaganda about your own relationship calling it the greatest love story never told and your husband is like well but if we tell it then does the title still fit and you're like yes that's fucking hilarious that he said that yes he said it because it's like hello it's true yeah also we've been married for how long now maybe we give it a minute

did you ever see their movie uh geely i did not oh future future uh old-timey watch party. You are not making me see Julie. We will watch Julie together. No. Future old-timey watch party. We've got to watch one of these shitty J-Lo documentaries. No. I want to watch the propaganda.

No, we need something that's in like – I bet Julie is free on YouTube. Oh, see, you're more of a business cat. Yeah, you're thinking about that. It's turkey time. Gobble, gobble. What the fuck does that even mean? That's the sex scene when J-Lo's on the bed in her undies and she's like moving her legs back and forth. She goes, it's turkey time.

And then she whispers. Really? Gobble, gobble. She's like, Ben, get over here and eat this carpet casserole. We've all said it. Yep. So RKO was thinking Lucille Ball just didn't have the it factor.

So they went around asking all the other movie studios if they'd like to buy out Lucille Ball's contract. It's like sports. Yeah, it is. Like, let's make a trade or... It was such a weird sports. Yeah, it is. Let's make a trade or it was such a weird time. Yeah, that is. Yeah. We talked about that a little on the last episode to how Hollywood was so different back then. MGM agreed to buy out her contract. This should have been a really good thing. MGM was the top dog in Hollywood. The studio had 4,000

employees. They had their own police department, their own power plant, their own zoo. They had a killer break room. And a killer break room. No, it was fucked up because I actually did a story about this for Let's Go to Court about, you know, horrible things would happen there. And then you've got your own little police force right on set. I wonder who they're working for. Anyhow, you get the idea. So she's at this big studio.

But she was intimidated. She'd been at RKO for so long. She knew literally everyone who worked there. But now she was a little fish in a big pond. And the pressure was on. Under pressure. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. She was 31 years old.

And if she was going to become a big star, she needed to do it very quickly. Yeah, 31 is like 79 adjusted for inflation adjusted for ageflation yeah it seemed that mgm was willing to make that happen though oh norman brace yourself for a makeover montage you came into my life and my world never looked so bright. They told her to gain 10 pounds. Ooh, that'd be fun. I know. They changed her style. Black, beige, navy dresses.

Ew, I've never been more bored. I would love it if you came to me and said, Norman, I need you to gain 10 pounds. I'd be like, you got it. You would. You'd be so thrilled. You'd be like, I guess. I you'd be so thrilled you'd be like i guess i mean i don't even know what i well i guess well first of all it'd be fucking bizarre if you came to me and said i need you to gain 10 pounds for an old timey podcast

the video demands it that's that's how we get people on that 10 tier if you gain 10 pounds uh-huh we're gonna sign Yep. They put her in bright colors and made everything she wore super tight. They overlined her lips and gave her big false eyelashes. Then legendary hairstylist Sidney Gileroff took over. He took one look at Lucy's brown, mousy hair and was like, oh, the humanity. He figured there were already enough blonde actresses. So he's like, you know what, my dear? You're going to be a redhead. More like an orange head, though, because that's the hair color she wound up with.

Orange. It was literally the color of a carrot. Oh, that is orange. Yeah. And Lucy hated it. But she couldn't really say anything because Sidney was a big deal. He was the guy who'd done

Vivian Leigh's hair for Gone with the Wind. He was the guy who decided that Judy Garland should have braids in The Wizard of Oz. This guy knew his shit. Yes. Okay. This guy knew his shit.

He was the first hairstylist to be listed in the opening credits of a movie. Whoa. Yes. So when Sidney said, you're a redhead, you had to be a redhead. And, you know, he was right. Yeah. Of course. Lucy's first movie at he was right. Yeah. Of course. Lucy's first movie at MGM was shot in Technicolor.

And the new hair color looked kind of stupid in person, but it really did make her pop on screen. I was going to say, you'd stand out. Yeah, exactly. And, okay, I don't know if you remember this from previous episodes, but early in her career, she'd had this problem of blending in with other beautiful women. Right. Now that wasn't a problem. Eventually, they did change up her hair from orange to more of a true red, but she rocked that color for the rest of her life. Absolutely.

That's how everyone remembers Lucille Ball. Yeah. I mean, the look she had is the MGM makeover look. Yeah. The big boobs, the overlined lips, the kind of almost like spidery eyelashes. Yeah. That's the MGM makeover. So I guess it worked really well for her then. Yeah. If you're going to keep it, yeah. Her first film at MGM was a musical comedy called Do Barry Was a Lady? It sounds like kind of a stinker, honestly.

But MGM had a couple legendary comedians on set to like assist with bits. They were Buster Keaton and Ed Sedgwick. Buster Keaton. Yeah. That name sounds familiar. You're having the exact same reaction that I had when I read that name. I was like, why do I know that name? Comedian, right?

Oh, yeah. So he'd made a name for himself doing physical comedy, specifically super dangerous stunt work. So I watched this scene from one of his old – gosh, I think it was a silent film. I'm pretty sure it was. And he did this scene where he's standing in front of a house and the entire front of the house comes down. Oh, yeah. That's super famous. Oh, yeah. That's a super famous. Yes.

Yes. It's super famous because it could have killed him so easily. And like he where he was standing, it was where the window was. Right. Yeah. Or a doorway. Yeah. But basically, you know, he was within inches of either dying or being horrifically injured,

but he did it for the comedy. So he's incredible. And Ed Sedgwick, I mean, I said legendary. He was a director slash writer slash performer slash you name it. So these guys watched Lucy in a scene where she's wearing this, you know, ridiculously huge, heavy headdress and eating a stalk of celery. And they were like, she's hilarious. She has incredible timing.

Look at her. They were so impressed that they went right up to the head of MGM, Louis B. Mayer, and they were like, hey, Lucille Ball is the next great comedian. Cool. Right. What do you think Louis B. Mayer says? That's puppy cock. Yeah.

Just like that. Yeah. He was essentially like, no, she's pretty. Yeah. And you can be pretty or funny, but you can't be both. Funny and have big boobs? I don't think so, Kristen. Don't worry, they're detachable. So that sucked. And Lucy's home life was getting kind of rough. She and Desi had been very eager

to have children, and they'd been overjoyed in 1942 when she got pregnant. But she had a miscarriage, and she was devastated. She'd always had this fear that she wouldn't be able to get pregnant, and I'm very curious about it. She once told a friend that she thought she'd never conceive because of her small boobs, which doesn't make sense to me at all, but maybe that's something people said back then. Boob size correlated with your ability to get pregnant? Yeah. It's possible also, and I'm kind of going out on a limb here,

but I talked in the first episode about how she was rumored to have had an abortion. And I know that nowadays anti-choice advocates will oftentimes share a lie, which is that if you have an abortion, you will be less likely to get pregnant in the future. It's not true. But I do wonder if that same rumor was or that same propaganda was around back then. And I also wonder if I mean, if you're getting an illegal abortion, I mean, who knows? Maybe it could, you know, mess with your body. Yeah.

So who knows why she had these fears? Because back then some methods of abortion were not safe at all, right? Well, yeah, when something's illegal, you're probably not going to get the safest care. So she's had this miscarriage and to make things even harder, Desi was now performing in USO shows for wounded military members. And obviously that's great. Yeah, you know, they were probably wounded fighting in that war he didn't care about. Shut up.

Shut up. Who cares? Who gives a shit, right? No. You know, it's great that he was doing that. But the thing is, even though these shows were super close to Desilu Ranch, Desi didn't come home much. I wonder why. A real mystery.

Yes. Let me solve it. Drinking, gambling, and sleeping with other people. Oh. Then came 1944. That was a really rough year for Lucy. In January, Grandpa Fred Hunt died. No, not Grandpa Fred.

I know, we love him. So did Karl Marx. That's right. If, you know, brother of Groucho Marx. Uh-huh, yeah, famously., brother of Groucho Marx. Uh-huh. Yeah. Famously. Yeah. Grandpa Hunt had been 78.

He'd lived a good life, but he'd been the only true father figure Lucy had ever known. Right. In fact, OK, I didn't really want to call it an autobiography just because it's an as-told-to autobiography and she never published it. Her children found it years after her death and then published it. Yeah. But I did think it was really interesting. In that entire book, she referred to her grandpa as daddy throughout it so it just i think it makes the loss even harder when you know that it's very telling yeah yeah maybe i should write a little autobiography and like hide it in the house somewhere

so when i die when the new york times prints the headline game in a story and assassinate on page one they'll search this house because they'll think you did it. Wow. First of all. And they're going to find it and I'm just going to tell some wild stories in there. It's my autobiography, so it happened. What do you think of that? About what?

I don't know. Of like publishing something that the person chose not to publish themselves. Yeah, I don't know. Feels weird. It's funny. It feels weird to me too. And yet I read it. I wanted to know.

Yeah, it just, I don't know. I don't really like it. I think a big factor might be where did they hide it? How hard was it to find the autobiography? If it's under a floorboard, they definitely didn't want anyone to read that. So, OK, I if memory serves. If it was sitting on a coffee table. No, it wasn't.

It was I think it was in a box of files that her attorney had or something like that. Her attorney had them? Yeah. Then maybe she definitely didn't want that read. Yeah, I don't know. It does kind of make me uncomfortable. It's an interesting conundrum. Yeah.

Yep. It was interesting. Her daughter, I believe, wrote the foreword for that book and did the audio book and did a great job. But she wrote about how so much of what has been written about her mom has been wrong. And it was the first time that she'd read a book about her mom where she could really hear her mom's voice. Yeah. And it felt very authentic to her.

And it bothered her that her dad had written his book about himself and gotten that published and out there. But her mom hadn't done that same thing. And I guess before Lucy died, Lucy was planning on working with someone to write a book about her life. So I think that was definitely a factor in why they published it. But, yeah, it does kind of make me a little. Yeah, but it's also a family member. And maybe, of course, they're probably going to know that person better than anybody. And maybe if they're like, I feel like my mom would want this, want people to read this. Like I said, it's not an easy choice here.

I guess my feeling is like if your mom wanted people to read it, she could have published it herself. Maybe she felt like it wasn't done yet. Yeah. So don't publish it yet if it's not done. Yeah, but when you're dead, it's like now it's done. Yeah. Yeah. The loss of her grandfather hit Lucy really hard.

And then MGM did some market research. Yay! We love market research. Yay! We love market research. It's never bad news. Absolutely. And what did they say? The results showed that Lucille Ball was not as popular as she had once been. I feel like I've hit this trombone button many times in this story.

This is kind of a bummer of an episode career-wise. Her career was officially in the decline. MGM renewed her contract, but they cut her pay. Man, this really is just like professional athletes. It's so funny because I never think about sports ever. But you are totally right. This system is exactly – you get traded around. At a certain point, they're not really wanting to invest any more money in you.

Take on their contract. Yep. To add insult to injury, MGM wasn't super interested in putting her in their movies anymore. So they loaned her out to other studios. Oh my gosh. Is that a thing in sports? It is. Is it really?

Yeah. Yes, it is. They loan you out to other teams? You can loan out players, yeah. So yeah, she's a loner now. On top of that, Desi was being a shitty husband. Stick in his penis where it's not supposed to be. Well, we can't be more clear than that, folks. If you need further explanation, get in that discord. And Norman will explain the whole thing. I will explain what I mean when I say

that. So much of what was happening was out of Lucy's control. You know, she can't control that MGM is loaning her out. She can't control the death of her grandfather. But she could control whether or not she stayed in an unhappy marriage. Damn right. So she filed for divorce. Good for her. This is a huge breakthrough thing with anxiety, by the way.

What do you mean? When you come to the realization of what you can and can't control. Oh, yeah. I'm not there yet. We're working on it. Oh, my God. I am working on it. You're reminding me I need to buy that thing.

What thing? There's an image in my therapist's office that's like, it's very elementary. Is it a cat on a clothesline saying, hang in there, baby? No, no. It's that thing that's like, these are the things that I can control. These are the things that I can't. And I just feel like I need that tacked to my office wall. That was my desktop background for a while. It's a great image. Beautiful. We could probably find it and print it off for you.

You know what would be really funny? You know how some people have like really nice artwork above their mantle? What if we just had that image blown up really big? Above the fireplace mantle, yeah. Yeah. Please admire our artwork. We're just really trying to focus on what we can and can't control if you have crippling anxiety you might enjoy this piece

please use a coaster okay good getting a divorce the divorce stunned desi this is a complete shock to me what have i done to deserve this yeah yeah lucy's lawyer called him let him know and he couldn't believe it okay desi what do you mean okay i don't know why he's so shocked i think divorce was a lot less common back then maybe he just thought he could kind of get away with shit. Because he doesn't respect Lucille Ball. I do think there was love there. I also wonder if he had maybe a sex and love addiction. I wonder a lot about his psychology. You know, you don't. Norm just shrugged and shook his head. Mm-mm-mm. I don't know. I've got thoughts about cheating that I won't share.

Super, super controversial, unpopular opinion. Norm doesn't like cheating. This might be unpopular, but I think cheating on your spouse is bad. But I will bravely declare. Wow, Norm. OK, yeah. So he's like, oh, my God. You're being my least favorite Reddit comment right now.

Listen, I know I'll get downvoted for this. And then they say something totally normal and actually really great. My favorite Reddit comment is, OK, this is epic. That's the equivalent of thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Yeah. That's I've never had an original thought. This is epic. This this right here.

Divorce was a little different back then. Back then in California, if you wanted to get a divorce, you filed and then you went in front of a judge to tell the judge why you needed a divorce. Yeah, I have seen the movie Liar Liar. I know what happens with a divorce in California. I just spat everywhere. So the day that Lucy was supposed to appear in front of the judge, Desi and Lucy had the following conversation. Okay. Are you ready? Yep. Desi, what are you doing today? Lucy, what do you mean what am I doing today? I'm divorcing you. Desi, okay.

So what are you doing tonight? Lucy, I'm doing nothing tonight. Oh, is he going to be like, how about we go on a date? Desi, okay. Why how about we go on a date? Desi. Okay. Why don't we go out? Lucy. But I'm divorcing you today. Desi. Okay. But you're not divorcing me tonight. So let's go out tonight after you divorce me. This isn't cute. Oh, I disagree. cute oh i disagree what okay here's the thing i included that because i talked in the last episode about how charming and charismatic desi was and like you can say that about a person but then you hear this and to me this says it all this is intox intoxicating. Lucy. Okay, everyone. He's rolling his eyes at me. Don't fall for it, Lucy. Lucy loved Desi. She didn't want to divorce him. She wanted him to

stop cheating on her. Yeah, but he couldn't. And here he is. His penis kept slipping into these women and he just didn't understand why. Saying all the right things. Uh-huh. Sure, divorce me. But I still love you. Sure, divorce me. I still want to be with you. This is manipulative. Yeah, it is.

I mean, it's the equivalent of I'll change. Yeah, basically. And she wants him to change. Again, she doesn't really want to divorce him. She wants the behavior to stop. Listen. Uh-oh. Yes.

Can't control other people's behavior. See, this is why I need the poster. I don't know this. You can change how you behave. Yeah. In those situations. Well, I know it's going to happen. Spoiler alert. They're going to get back together.

Okay. Everyone, Norman is personally offended by this. I just feel so bad for Lucille Ball. I know. I know. I do too. It sucks. The fucking gall of this guy to like sleep around nonstop, be shocked that he's getting a divorce

and then when the divorce happens, he's like, oh, how about we go out tonight? I still love you. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. That's ridiculous. Yeah. Anyway. Lucy. I'm going to twist my little Carmex cap and listen now. He's angry, folks.

He's got a weapon. It's a Carmex. I'm going to silently fume over here while you continue the story. Well, don't silently fume. We're on a podcast together. Go ahead and let that rage out. All right. Big boy.

Lucy did go to court that day, but under state law, and some states are still like this, the court date just starts the clock on the divorce. Why are you smiling at me? Sorry, I am thinking about liar, liar in my head like crazy. In the bra. Isn't that from liar, liar? Yeah, it is. Yeah. It's like it says here your weight is 120. Yeah. In your bra. Oh, when I was a kid and I saw that movie.

Oh, my gosh. I thought what a line. That's like one of my favorite courtroom scenes in a film. The fact that my client was ridden more than Seattle slew is irrelevant. Under state law, the divorce wouldn't be final for a year the logic behind laws like this is that the state is hoping that over the course of that year you'll change your mind okay which is none of the state's fucking business i think it's so weird i think north carolina had a similar law yeah it did yeah it did because i remember we had some friends who got divorced and it was like I couldn't believe that you had to wait a year.

You had to be – you were separated for a year and then the divorce is finalized. Which I think must absolutely suck because I feel like for most people, by the time they're to the point where they're like, I want a divorce, I'm sorry. You really probably want a divorce by that point. divorce i'm sorry you really probably want a divorce by that point that night after lucy filed for divorce she and desi went out to dinner and then they had sex which made the divorce invalid did i have to like present that in court no way but it's you had sex didn't you no but like you're supposed to have like you know no sexy times for 365 days and if you do then does the clock start again if you file again but the divorce just stops how do they know that though do you have to self-report the sex or is there a guy from the

court system watching them have sex and be like, well, I'm starting the clock again. I mean, I guess you must have to self-report. I hadn't thought about that. He's got a little ledger. I always feel like somebody's watching me. Sexy time. And now I can't get divorced. Oh.

This was maybe a little embarrassing. Real uncomfortable with that guy in the corner with his little clipboard. Ned, do you have to be here? The state of California says I do, ma'am. I don't make the rules, ma'am. But I just call it like I see it.

I sure do enjoy my job. Ned's heart is a rock in the corner. I get real horny at work, man. Oh, boy. Could I borrow a towel, please? Oh, stop. Ew.

Norman Caruso. I mean, that was, you know, fair timing and everything. But still disgusting. This was maybe a little embarrassing. They were both public figures, which meant that their divorce had been all over the news. And now they had to go to the media and be like, just kidding, we're staying together.

We're back, baby. But they were kind of cute about it. Lucy told reporters that usually when a couple gets divorced, they marry new people, and the wife becomes a better wife for the next guy and the husband becomes a better husband for the next woman. She said, two other people profit from our mistakes. We decided to stick together so that we'd profit from our own mistakes. See, now that's charming.

Yeah, it is charming. That's clever. Yeah. Maybe we could generate some buzz by announcing that we're divorcing. Oh, God. Great. But then a week later, just kidding. Norm finally lost his virginity. Yes.

Lucy and Desi really did learn some lessons from the divorce that didn't happen. But marriage is hard, Norm. Tell me about it. It's the worst. We vote every four years on our marriage. And we recently reelected the marriage and will continue for four more years. It would be kind of interesting if you basically leased a spouse. I ran a pretty good campaign.

You did? Mm-hmm. It was kind of a what's the alternative? Yeah. And I told you, you think you're going to find someone else with more butt pimples than me? You're not. You said, I'll take my ass straight to funky town. Pick up that guy with the Ford F-350 and the truck nuts.

Oh, God. Yeah, marriage is hard. Desi worked nights performing at clubs. Lucy worked days at MGM. Did Desi still have his RKO contract? Oh, no. They dropped him a long time ago. Oh, my God.

No. They said, this guy's not working. Hollywood thought he kind of sucked. They literally only saw each other in passing. As in while they were passing each other on the road. When he was coming home from work and she was going to work, they'd spot each other on the road, pull over, and spend a few minutes together. It was sad. Yeah, that's no way to live.

Yeah. It's no way to have a relationship. But don't worry. Her career was also kind of bad. Yeah, that's no way to live. Yeah. It's no way to have a relationship. But don't worry. Her career was also kind of bad. Oh, yeah. In 1946, MGM dropped Lucille Ball. Lucy was 36 years old. She felt like a total failure.

Her best days were behind her. This is literally how I feel right now. I'm 36. Why do you feel like your best days are behind me and lucille ball have a lot in common i i i feel that lucy mgm dropped you as well only a matter of time kristin calls me into her office i told you to gain 10 pounds and you gained 30 i told you to wear brighter colors. I'm going to loan you out to another woman. I'm loaning you to another podcast.

Oh, God, no. I've talked a lot about Desi's cheating, and I think it's only fair to mention that the author Kathleen Brady wrote that if Lucy ever cheated on Desi, it was most likely with an actor named George Sanders. They did a movie together. That sounds familiar. Oh, does it really? George Sanders. Do you mind if I?

Go ahead. I'm going to tell you a little bit about him. Yes. What? He is the voice of Shere Khan in The Jungle Book. I knew that name sounded familiar. Wow. That feels like kind of a deep cut. Yeah. I knew that name sounded familiar. Wow. Yeah.

That feels like kind of a deep cut. Yeah. But it's a Disney cut. He's the tiger. The tiger from A Jungle Book. OK. Man, maybe I am a Disney adult. I feel like you are.

I feel like I've been grossly misled. They did a movie together in 1947. And fun fact, in addition to The Jungle Book, he also did this other fun thing in his life, which was he married Zsa Zsa Gabor. He also later married her sister, which is the weirdest thing ever, but we don't have time for that. Instead... Is that weird? What? Shut up, you weirdo. So he was married to Zsa Zsa Gabor. And apparently, this story comes from Zsa Zsa. One time she picked up the phone and overheard a conversation between George and Lucille Ball.

And Zsa Zsa claims that Lucy was like, what are you doing with that Zsa Zsa Gabor lady? She's too young for you. I love you. While she was on the phone? Yeah. agree the timing I agree any any kind of story like this where it's like the vast majority of people feel like no Lucy didn't cheat on him but all of a sudden there's this one story and in it the woman is basically complimenting herself by saying, oh, yeah, I picked up the phone and I'm told like I'm too young and cool. No. Yeah, it didn't happen. But anyway, I felt like sharing that just, you know, in fairness.

That's a story. Yeah. We have to be fair to Desi. Man, you are a Desi hater, aren't you? I am right now. Okay. I think you'll come around in the next episode. Oh, okay.

Maybe. Can we separate the art from the artist? Okay, he's a cheater, not a rapist. Like, calm down. At any rate, now that Lucy didn't have a contract with MGM, she started freelancing. She did a play. She got good reviews. She did a few movies for Paramount.

But nothing really big. So in the sports world, she'd be a free agent. That's right. Yeah. And she was running out of opportunities. So Lucy did what a lot of actors did when the movie roles dried up. She turned to radio. In 1948, CBS approached her about starring in a radio comedy show called My Favorite Husband.

Kind of like turning to podcasting. It basically is. It really is. Okay, stop me if this sounds familiar. Okay. In every episode, Lucy's character would come up with some harebrained scheme and things would get a little wild and wacky. And by the end of the show, everything would turn out great. I love Lucy. Happy endings for everyone.

Yeah, that's I love Lucy. Lucy saw an opportunity in this radio show. an opportunity in this radio show. The way to ensure that she and Desi could be together and stay together and finally have a family was for them to work together. No more going on tour, no more going on the road, no more working nights while the other person worked days. It was a great idea. So she went to the executives at CBS and she was like, boy, have I got a plan for you. My husband Desi can play my husband on the radio show. It'll be great.

Kind of like how we do an old timey podcast. Exactly. And the executives at CBS were like, do what now? Your husband with the super thick accent? Yeah, your Cuban husband? Yeah. Nope, nobody, nope, nope. Yeah, I figured they'd say that.

Your husband for this show is going to be a banker from the Midwest, okay? In other words, the whitest little white boy you ever did see. We're talking saltines with cottage cheese and a dollop of strawberry jam. That's how white we want it. We're talking taffy apple salad, folks. That is a dish that my Aunt Denise makes. How dare you? How dare you point out how Midwest it is? It is so Midwest.

It is, by the way, not really a salad, but our salads never are in the Midwest. Lucy was upset, but she didn't really have another option. So she agreed to do the radio show. And it's a good thing she did. My Favorite Husband became a hit. May I ask who played the husband originally? Oh, God, I don't remember the guy's name. He was hot, though.

Hot guy number one. Yeah, sorry. Wow. I mean, you can look it up. He's just a piece of meat to you. I mean, he look it up. It's just a piece of meat to you. I mean he kind of is. I saw a picture of him and was like, he's on the radio? Seems like a waste.

Let's see. According to Wikipedia, Richard Denning, that is a huge star, Kristen. How dare you? I'm sorry. I didn't know him. What's he been in that you know? Creature from the Black Lagoon, Day the World Ended. He did a lot of like science fiction stuff.

Oh, I steer clear of that. But yeah, he is a handsome fellow. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, shit. What? He was in Hawaii Five-0 as well. Oh.

Anyway. Okay. My Favorite Husband was a big hit, and it was really fun. They recorded in front of a live audience, and the show taught Lucy several things. First off, it helped her hone her skills as a comedian. It also established that she really performed better in front of a crowd. And even though they were on the radio, she used her facial expressions to play to the audience. She could take a funny line and make it even funnier by just widening

her eyes real big or kind of making a face. But radio was this strange new medium for Lucy. First off, the rules were totally different. On a movie set, she'd had to do whatever the people in power said she should do. But in this setting, she was the one with some power. And she maybe didn't do a great job wielding it at first. What does that mean? Well, I mean, think about somebody who has been in an industry for a really long time. They've never been allowed to really speak their mind. And now all of a sudden they get the chance. Okay. Question for you is the reason that she had

more power in this radio show is because it was recorded live. Uh, no, I think it was, she was a star now, a star on radio, you know, she'd never been big in the movies. So she'd never, you know, had a ton of power. But like on a movie set, there were real big divisions. Like an actress didn't go talk to the writers and say, hey, could we work on this line here or anything like that? But in radio, everything was much smaller. She had more star power. And so she could give input on stuff. She could give unsolicited advice to people. Oh, love that. Love unsolicited advice.

Yeah. Initially, she could be pretty brutal when critiquing a script. The writing team on My Favorite Husband were these two little fresh-faced cutie pies named Madeline Pugh and Bob Carroll Jr. Yes, they were dating, but no, they didn't marry each other. Even though Lucy specifically told them they should get married. Multiple times! Thanks, Lucy. Uh-huh. Fun fact, Madeline Pugh was co-editor of her high school newspaper. Would you like to guess who the other editor was? Of her high school newspaper? Who was it? Kurt Vonnegut.

Oh. Right? Wild. That's a big deal. That's a very fun fact. That is a big deal. That's a very fun fact. That is a fun fact. One time early on, Lucy was so mean about a script that Madeline cried. Oh.

In fairness, though, I think writers are very sensitive. That's what happened when you started editing my gaming historian scripts. I just cried and cried. I've cried from a critique before. Really? Oh, yeah, multiple times. I've cried from a critique before. Really? Oh yeah. Multiple times. Okay. So my tears are normal. Did you cry? I don't think I cried, but I definitely I was silently fuming as a non-threatening boy. Like I can't believe she wants me to make this change. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It takes a while to like, well, I guess I should rephrase. It takes a while to develop that kind of trust.

Eventually I was like, man, I can't release an episode until Kristen looks this script over because that like any change I advocated for was in the interest of making the script as good as it could possibly be. Not to say that I was always right on stuff because obviously I wasn't. But like that's where I was coming from and not just I'm going to attack you now. And that's – for me too, it's like, especially your first critique with someone can be really, really tough. But if you know that they're in your corner, that changes everything entirely. And I think it's interesting because Madeline was interviewed about this later in life, obviously a bunch. And here's what she said about Lucy. She said, I think she'd had a hard time scrambling her way to the top, and it made her very wary.

I guess she wasn't too sure that people would take care of her. All we wanted was to make her look good, and that hadn't happened to her before. She began to relax when she saw that if she did something funny on the show once, we'd use it again because it worked for her. So, yeah, it just feels like Lucy's getting some power kind of for the first time. She's figuring out how to use it. And she's finding people who are looking out for her now on radio.

Which she hasn't been – hadn't been used to in Hollywood. Yeah. I mean she'd definitely done a good job networking. She'd done a good job having friends but not like this. Yeah. Not on this level. But the really strange thing was that being on the radio changed the way people perceived her. Before, when she'd been in movies, people were a little hushed and shy around her.

But now that she was on the radio, people felt like they knew her. She'd been in their living rooms with them. She'd made them laugh. She was approachable and familiar now. And Lucy really liked that. When she'd been in movies, people felt a little removed from her. Like, oh, she's a movie star.

But on radio- There's something about having someone's voice in your ears while you're doing the dishes, just living your life, that it feels more intimate. I think podcasting's the same way. Okay, so that's actually exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. Is it felt like an old friend. Yes. That visits your home. Yes. Often. Yeah. So,

yeah, being on radio would definitely do that. And that's why we have so many friends with this podcast. All these history hoes out there. All my good friends. I mean, it is funny because like I listen to podcasts all the time and there are certain podcasters who like I associate with raking leaves or, you know, painting the bathroom or, you know, whatever. And it's weird, but I think of them as if we did those activities together. Speaking of the bathroom, our shower is leaking. It's the one shower we have. Yeah, everybody, times are tough. Needless to say, we both smell terrible.

We actually do smell very bad. Thank God we didn't open up that smell-o-vision tier. That's next week. Yeah. If you have the video right now, you can see the little stink lines coming off of us. In conclusion, please pray for us. We were going to have our entryway ceiling redone because there was a hole in it. Because there was a leak two years ago that we got fixed. And now we were like, let's finally patch that up. And then it started leaking again. It leaked somewhere else. So I think I may have fixed the leak, but we'll see.

Oh, God. Times are tough. Get on that $10 tier. No, shut up. We're fine. We're fine. But we do smell bad. So Lucy's on this new medium, but she was still doing a few movies.

She got a contract with Columbia Pictures where she did a couple slapstick comedies. Columbia, the lady with the torch. I think so. Didn't she work with Columbia way back when, when she first came to Hollywood? Yes. Yeah. She's back, baby. Would you like to know?

See, I'm listening. One of the names of one of the movies she did. Stopper, My Mom Will Shoot. What was it? The Fuller Brush Girl. The Fuller Brush Girl? the movies she did stop her my mom will shoot what was it the fuller brush girl the fuller brush girl when you read it all you can see is the fuller bush girl and every time i read it i was like and then you know bush full bush full bush so her thicket of pubes, as we call it. That was her other movie. Thicket of pubes.

So her career was evolving, but she and Desi still wanted to have children. And at some point, Desi's mom, Lolita, was like, well, you know, I think the reason you're not getting pregnant is because the two of you weren't married by a priest. Duh. Uh-huh. Desi and Lucy were like, well, it can't hurt. So on June 19th, 1949, they got married again, this time by a priest. And Norm, I can tell, is not going to show up and throw rice. He's not interested. He's not happy about it. If that's what they want, that's what they want. Who am I to judge? Oh, wow. Anyway.

You and I are very different in that way. Yes. I know your family crest. Can't judge me. I'm judging you. That's what I should get printed up and I should put that up here behind me on the wall. You should, like an old-timey family crest. Yes.

You can't judge me. I'm judging you. What would be the animal for the pits? An owl. Owls seem kind of bitchy and judgy, don't they? They do look at you. Although that seems like too dignified for my family. Don't you agree?

Yeah. I was thinking like a prairie dog or something. You can say pop out of the ground. You know, give their little judgment and then they come back down. like a prairie dog or something. He's like, pop out of the ground. Like, you know, give their little judgment and then they come back down. Pop out of the ground to be like,

that outfit's stupid. Yeah. Yeah, you look, you look terrible today. That's not how my family judges. Yeah.

Have you thought about finding a new career? There we go. There we go. Six months after they got married by a priest, Lucy got pregnant. Hey, so it did work. But she miscarried again. Oh.

Yeah. Sorry, I jumped the gun there. No, it's OK. I mean that's what they were going through too. They were really, really excited, overjoyed, and then devastated. Yeah. I basically know exactly how Lucille Ball felt in that moment. Because of this right here? Exactly. This is exactly what happened.

Wow. That's almost as insensitive as me not caring about World War II. See, I'm being sarcastic, but you were serious. I was not. You were actually like, yeah, who gives a shit about World War II? Anyway, to make things even more devastating, someone leaked the news to the press. That she had a miscarriage? Yeah. That's fucking awful.

Yeah. Let's tell the whole world about how I had a miscarriage. Something kind of beautiful did happen in the aftermath of that news, even though it was not something that she chose to share. She received 2,867 letters from people all across the country, mostly women, who wanted to express their condolences and show their support. Many of them wrote about how they'd been through the same thing or something similar. And so even though it took her five months, Lucy responded to every single one of those letters.

Wow. Yeah. What a – yeah, that would – man, that would make me so emotional. Yeah. To get that many letters. I mean, that's impressive to reply to them all. Especially when she's this busy. And like still grieving, I'm sure, from having a miscarriage.

But I think that shows what it meant to her to have support. Yeah. Because I think even now people sometimes blame themselves or feel, you know, just a whole range of emotions. And to have people reach out and just be supportive, that'd be pretty touching. Absolutely. Because of what she'd been through, Lucy was especially sympathetic to people who were also struggling. And she seemed to know just what to say to people. Once her friend Marcella was in the hospital after a second miscarriage. Marcella was so depressed she could barely speak. She couldn't believe that this had happened to

her again. And Lucy came to visit her in the hospital. Lucy didn't say a word. Instead, she started humming burlesque music, and she stripped out of all her clothes until she was dancing around Marcella's hospital bed in her underwear. Marcella laughed so hard. It was so unexpected and so perfect. It was so unexpected and so perfect. And then, without saying a word, Lucy put her clothes back on and left. And Marcella said, I was a different person after that. Sometimes a good laugh is all you need. I think it's amazing that she didn't even say anything.

Because by that point, Lucy had been through that too. Exactly. because by that point Lucy had been through that too. Exactly. She knew what she was feeling in that moment and said, what I would have wanted more than anything was to laugh. And so she gave that to her. I imagine Lucy also kind of knew like, okay, I know what everyone says to somebody in this situation. It's probably already been said to her a million times.

So I'm not going to say shit. I'm going to show her my undies. Entertain. Pregnancy was such a hard thing for Lucy and Desi. They wanted children so badly. The miscarriages felt cruel. One time for their sixth anniversary, Desi got Lucy a gold pin that was shaped like a key and he'd engraved the word nursery on it.

And it was stolen out of his car before he even got a chance to give it to her. It just felt cursed almost, you know? Sometimes life can feel that way. Yeah. Yeah. The 1940s wrapped up and overall it had been a pretty tough decade. Really? Why? Shut up.

Shut up. From a professional standpoint, the only thing Lucy had done that really resonated with audiences was that silly little radio show. My Favorite Husband. That's right. With Richard Denning. Yeah, don't forget it. Yeah. He's not just some hot guy. He's been in sci-fi movies. And Hawaii

Five-0. Yeah. Very influential show. Da-da-da-da-da-da. Da-da-da-da-da-da. Oh, wow. I didn't know I knew that song, but I guess I do. There you go. Influential. As a matter of fact, Norman, the radio show had done so well that CBS wanted to move it onto this newfangled thing called the TV.

No. You ever heard of this? Television. Yeah, we got a few of those. We sure do. Once again, Lucy was like, absolutely. do once again lucy was like absolutely and this time how about for the role of my husband we hire my actual husband and not this denning character who will never become anything she didn't say that i said that man the disrespect this episode for world war ii and richard denny also a goofy movie

i feel like i've been pretty disrespectful of that too. Yeah, don't worry. My army grows day by day. It really does. It'll be great. Hire Desi to be my husband. And the folks at CBS were like, hell no. Yeah, I knew that.

I mean, no one in Hollywood wanted him either. He was working clubs, right? It's a little worse than that. Their feeling was no one in America is going to believe that a white woman like you is married to a Cuban man. And Lucy was like, but I am married to him. I literally am. They will believe it because it's the truth. Yeah.

Lucy and Desi were both pissed off by this racist bullshit. They decided that the smartest thing they could do was to prove that the network executives were wrong. And they'd do that by going on tour together. They'd put on a comedy variety show at venues all over the country and they do it as a married couple this is giving me some ideas for an old-timey podcast oh yeah they had a clown in their act are you prepared for that no no clowns this is a no clown zone they figured if the show did well then it would prove indisputably to those racist executive assholes that an American audience would accept Lucy and Desi. So they did it.

They went on the road, did their show, tickets sold fast, audiences loved it. It was a huge success. But about halfway through what was supposed to be a 12-week show, Lucy started to feel a little weak. Pregnant? That's what Desi thought. Nope. She was sure she wasn't pregnant again, but just to be safe, she went to a doctor to get tested. These were old timey times, so the results would take a while.

So they went back to work. Six to eight weeks. Who knows? They wait until you just give birth. They're like, you were pregnant. I just had a while. So they went back to work. Six to eight weeks. Who knows? They wait until you just give birth. They're like, you were pregnant. I just had a baby. You know, they start, they're just back at work waiting for the results to come in. And then a very popular radio personality named Walter Winchell went on the air and announced to the world that Lucille Ball was pregnant. He found out before Lucille Ball? This is how Lucy and Desi found out that she was pregnant.

From hearing it on the radio. Wait, did like a paparazzi or tabloid go to the hospital and be like, hey, you got any juicy bits for me me he had a paid informant in the medical lab what the fuck is that not the most fucked up thing yeah yeah it's creep alert it's gross yep very gross i'm gonna play this one too too. Oh, brother, this guy stinks! That comes in handy a lot. It does. Lucy and Desi were once again overjoyed.

Just to be safe, they cut their show from its original 12 weeks to six weeks. Because for the show, Lucy did a lot of physical comedy, including acting like a seal, you know, rolling around. And they just didn't want to take any chances. Sure. Understandable. Much more understandable than J-Lo canceling her tour. Well, the money's not there, okay? She said she had to be with her family, Kristen.

Okay. But we think we all know why. No one ever has to be with their family. We know this. No one's paying $250 for nosebleed tickets to a J-Lo concert. Is that how much? That was the going rate, yeah. I would pay that. Oh, my God.

Don't worry. It's not happening. It can't happen. You should email J-Lo and say, I'll watch. Hey, J-Lo. Can I come? I hear you're on hard times. I do have a couple hundred bucks I'd like to throw your way.

Do you want to come on our podcast? Oh, my God. So they cut the show back, but Lucy had another miscarriage. Oh, my God. I literally, I had in my notes, this can't be real. So I had to go back and double check because I thought there's no way. You think you miscounted the miscarriages. It's just, it's terrible.

I can't imagine how devastating this would be. And once again, it's all public. When you're in your late 30s, it becomes more difficult to have a child, right? Sure, sure. They call it a geriatric pregnancy, which is really sweet. Man. I know. Ancient pregnancy is what they should call it.

Yeah. So that was devastating. But then Lucy got an opportunity. It wasn't in radio. It wasn't in TV. Legendary producer slash director Cecil B. DeMille wanted Lucy for his next movie. What was the movie? I will get to it.

First, we have to talk about Cecil. Have you heard of him? That name sounds familiar. Yeah. So he is now known as the founding father of American cinema. At this point in time, he was already a legend. Well, if he founded cinema, absolutely. The movie he was working on was called The Greatest Show on Earth. And he wanted Lucy for this role where she'd be working with elephants and doing, I mean, just nutso bananas stunt

work. Lucy was thrilled. This was a huge opportunity. Yeah. All she needed was for Columbia Pictures to loan her out for the project. And they said no. It shouldn't have been a problem, Norm. It shouldn't because she really wasn't doing much for Columbia, right?

Right. She'd been let out of her contract for other films. Yeah. You know, it hadn't been a problem in the past. She only had one picture left to do with Columbia on her contract. One. They could let her out, do this film, then come back and do some other thing. But that's not what happened.

Because Harry Cohn was the co-founder and president of Columbia Pictures. And he was an absolute asshole. Do I need to get the button ready again? Oh, get it ready. Okay, let's hear about it. Okay, in her book, Kathleen Brady wrote that Harry was considered a shiv-wielding predator who, quote, enjoyed tormenting those who worked for him. Shiv-wielding? Mm-hmm.

Who carried a knife? Well, I don't know that it was literal. But, yeah, this guy will stab you in the back and the front. Okay. Harry knew that Lucy wanted to do the movie. He knew that this would be huge for her career. So he said no. He wouldn't let her out of the contract.

Instead, if she wanted to do that movie, she would have to be the one to break the contract. Oh. Mm-hmm. Which would give her a reputation in Hollywood as being difficult. And of course, that's career suicide for a woman. Harry even tried to push her to break the contract by sending her a script for a shitty movie that she'd have to do instead of the Cecil B. DeMille project. The script was for a movie called The Magic Carpet, and it was being produced by Sam Katzman. Sam Katzman movies were so bad that Harry Cohn sent actors and actresses Sam Katzman scripts as a way to keep

them in line. You better behave or I'm going to put you in this movie. Or I'm going to put you in a Sam Katzman movie. Yeah. He also used it as a way to humiliate them into breaking their contracts because it was seen as so embarrassing to be part of these stupid ass movies man so you're like weaponized to this guy yeah how does how does sam katzman feel it was so funny because in the love lucy book, she wrote about the Sam Katzman script. And I was like, my God, poor Sam Katzman. Was he really that bad? Looked it up.

Yeah. I mean, this was legendary. So he had a movie, The Magic Carpet Casserole. The Magic Carpet. Did you say casserole? Lucy was sick of Harryry cone's bullshit so you know what she did broke the contract no because then he'd win he wanted her to break the contract okay what'd she do she picked up the phone called him up said i just read the script and I loved it.

Oh, my gosh. I can't wait to do it. For the magic carpet casserole? Wanted to do it. Okay. Couldn't wait. Bring it on. And since, according to her contract, she had just this one last movie to do with Columbia, for which she would be paid $85,000, adjusted for inflation, about $1.1 million.

Very expensive. Harry had to pay her a fuckton of money to be in that shitty movie. It ate up like half the budget of this movie because, of course, no one had planned for a star like Lucille Ball to be in this shitty movie. You want to watch it later? No, I'm good. I do think it would be kind of fun to watch some of these bad movies. Like Geely?

No, we could watch Henry Fonda suck in a movie while Lucille Ball is amazing. Anyhow, that's just a fun plan for later. For now, you should know that Harry Cohn's pissed off because she's accepted this movie. By this point, she was pregnant again, but she was keeping it a secret because by that point in time, if you got pregnant, you could be fired.

That was a fireable offense. Jesus. Uh-huh. It was a great time. So she showed up to set. She did the movie. She did a great job. to set. She did the movie. She did a great job. And every day her assistant would secretly let out her costume just a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more each day.

The movie sucked, but her performance was good. And best of all, she'd managed to publicly humiliate Harry Cohn. And she got out of her contract. She did that film and she was done right and she's done but later you know she and desi had to go to cecil b demille and tell him like hey i'm pregnant yeah and therefore unable to do this movie and cecil b demille famously said to desi congratulations mr arz. You are the only man who has ever screwed his wife, Cecil B. DeMille, Paramount Pictures, and Harry Cohn all at the same time. Which is a very funny thing to say. But Harry Cohn didn't think it was funny at all. He hated when that quote, like, got everywhere. was funny at all he hated when that quote like got everywhere so now lucy's 39 years old pregnant didn't have a contract with a major movie studio that didn't necessarily mean that she was done

with movies but if she made the leap over to television it would probably kill her movie career for good because at that time movie studios were very threatened by tv oh i bet i can't even imagine oh they were a screen in your own home this is gonna kill the movie business yep yeah that's exactly what they thought a lot of movie studios forbid their actors from appearing on tv yeah going on tv was the kind of thing that could get you blackballed. The other risk factor was that TV was so new. Sears had just added televisions to their catalog. Ugh, Sears.

R.I.P. Darn right. R.I.P. to the catalog, too. Man. So the television industry was growing, but it was still a gamble. But Lucy figured that if she could convince CBS to let her do the TV show with Desi, then maybe the gamble would be worth it. Maybe that gamble would get her what she'd always wanted. Her family.

All in one place. Her marriage on solid ground. Yeah. I mentioned earlier in the episode that she and Desi were really good friends with their neighbors, Clark Gable and Carol Lombard. Yes, Clark Gable. And I asked what kind of neighbor is he? He was a good neighbor.

State Farm is there. Shut up. Carol was one of Lucy's best friends. She was a legendary actress. But in 1942, when Carol was just 33 years old, she died in a plane crash. Holy moly. It had been just a horrible tragedy. She'd flown back to her home state of Indiana, where she'd done this charity event for the war effort. And she was so eager to get back home quickly that she insisted that she and her mom and Clark Gable's press agent and like 16 army soldiers all just fly home instead of – I think they were talking about taking the train or the bus or something.

So that's what they did. They flew home. But again, it was January of 1942 and the United States was very worried that enemy planes would fly into American airspace. And to prevent that from happening, they had turned off a lot of the big lights around the mountains of Las Vegas, which were designed to make flying at night more safe. And without those lights, the plane crashed into a mountain. Dear God. Everyone on board was killed. Of course.

Clark Gable was distraught by the loss of his wife, and Lucy mourned with him for years. There are stories about how after Carol died, he would just go driving through the country just like at a breakneck speed. Clearly he'd been drinking and Lucy was just like, he's trying to kill himself. Like this is terrible. So she'd go over and sit with him and he'd want to watch Carol's movies. And she later said, you know, I couldn't tell whether he was torturing himself watching her in these movies or if it really did give him some comfort and company. But anyway, all that to say that Lucy missed Carol very deeply. These years later, Lucy's 39. She's pregnant again, worried about her career, terrified about doing a TV show that could potentially ruin her career forever.

And Lucy decided, I've just got to go to sleep. And that night, her friend Carol came to her in a dream and said, honey, go ahead. Give it a whirl. And the next day, Lucy woke up and she decided why the hell not on next week's episode oh lucy and desi start a tv show we're finally here yeah it got me emotional did you learn that from her autobiography? I don't remember. It's funny. I'm reading a couple books and it's hard to keep them all straight. But that's a pretty widely known story. OK. That she was very, very nervous. You know, Lucy was a very superstitious person.

Things like dreams. She had a big fear of birds because she associated them with the death of her father. Like that dream meant a lot to her. And it was kind of that last little push that she needed to make the decision to go into TV. It's funny how that happens. Sometimes you just need like a little sign that what you're doing is the right thing. Yeah. And if it comes in a dream, great. I think so. Okay. I think dreams have a lot of meaning do you like talking about dreams no i don't want to hear about anyone else's dreams

oh interesting i'm like my mother in that way we're like what are we little prairie dogs we pop up i don't want to hear about your dream. Yep. Pop right back down. Yeah. Sheree doesn't want to hear about anyone's dreams. Sheree is a very nice person. But yeah, if it's a dream, she will sit there. Look at you dead behind the eyes. And you know what she's thinking? She's thinking, oh, wow, cool.

This didn't actually happen. And then she's judging you for telling you about that dream. I mentioned in my diary in high school I called her a bitch. Maybe I was right. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. I should be terrified. Well, that was a great episode.

Do you really think so? I was so worried about splitting this in half. What's our run time right now? Two hours, 40 minutes. Oh, my God. Thank God I split it in half. I know. runtime right now? Two hours, 40 minutes. Oh, my God. Thank God I split it in half. I know. Well, I kind of went on a few tangents here.

I also took a pee break and a drink break. Yeah. Kristen, I feel like you really recovered from the beginning of the episode where you told the whole world that World War II was stupid and didn't matter. That's not what I meant. And you know it. You know I didn't mean that. I meant it's not part of this story at the moment. So shut up about it.

And I got to tell you, I think you just need to learn more about World War II. So my next topic, I will do a 60-part episode on World War II. You know what kind of fans we'd get if you did that no what old white dudes love world war two and i love old white dudes it would just be a white dude podcast hey lots of people love world war two that's true it was quite an event you should really care more about it. I'm sorry. It's fine. We're just teasing. We're having fun. We know you're not serious.

Excellent episode. So next time we're going to learn about I Love Lucy. And I promise that will be a much more upbeat episode. I guarantee it. Okay. And I can guarantee it because I've already written it because I thought I was somehow going to also tell that whole story today, which is ridiculous. You're insane. Yeah, probably.

Well, do we have anything else to add before we wrap this up? If you're enjoying the show, you know what to do. Rate us, review us. If you really, really enjoy the show, please join us on Patreon. Get that combo meal. Get that combo meal, baby. Supersize it. If you're just listening to this episode on the regular feed,

you're just getting a burger, no fries, no drink. No drink. You're not really living. That's right. You get on that Patreon, even the $5 tier, you're going to get the little baggie of fries and then a small drink. You get on that $10 tier, you get the big gulp. My God.

With a large fry. And an apple pie. And two free sauces. Your choice. Pig butter. Miracle Whip. Ew. Our only two options.

Kristen, you know what they say about history hoes. We always cite our sources. I didn't even understand that. We always cite our sources. That's right, Norm. For this episode, I got my information from the book Love Lucy by Lucille Ball. Also the fabulous podcast The Plot Thickens from Turner Classic Movies. And the book The Life of Lucille Ball by Kathleen Brady.

That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old Tammy podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And until next time, toodaloo, ta-ta, and cheerio!