Let's Go To Court! - 30: Murders at a Chinese Hostel & Gypsy Blanchard’s Quest for Freedom

Episode Date: August 22, 2018

In Gypsy Blanchard’s world, nothing is as it seems. For years, people saw her as a sickly girl plagued by medical issues. She was wheelchair bound. She suffered from mental delays. She had trouble breathing. Her life was marked by constant doctor visits and too-frequent surgeries. All the while, her doting mother Dee Dee was by her side. Then one day, someone updated the status on Dee Dee and Gypsy’s shared Facebook account. They wrote, “that bitch is dead.” Friends and neighbors were in for the surprise of their lives. Then Brandi tells us about four murders at a Chinese hostel. When police arrived at the crime scene in 1995, they had little to go on. The murders were as random as they were brutal. The few leads police developed were vague at best. The case went cold for nearly 20 years. Years later, with the help of DNA testing, investigators took another look at the crime scene. Their discovery led them to a surprising suspect. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: The HBO documentary, “Mommy Dead and Dearest” “Gypsy Blanchard’s ex-boyfriend upset with his attorney as murder trial approaches,” Springfield News-Leader “Judge sets trial date for next year in Nicholas Godejohn case,” Springfield News-Leader “Charged with murder, Godejohn give his side of the story,” Ozarks First In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Anhui Author Detained for 1995 Quadruple Murder” by Fan Yiying, sixthtone.com “Farmer-writer-killer sentenced to death” by Ma Zhenhuan, China Daily “Killer author who murdered four people 23 years ago then wrote acclaimed novels ‘inspired by the case’ is sentenced to death in China” by Tracy You, Daily Mail “Crime writer arrested for four murders committed 22 years ago” The Punch “Chinese author of unsolved-murder novel arrested over unsolved murders” by Sarah Zheng, South China Morning Post  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about a first degree murder. And I'll be talking about

the mysterious murders at a Chinese hostel. Ooh, mystery. Brandi. Yes, Kristen? Yes, Kristen. Hold on to your hat. We have a sponsor. Shut the front door.

I wanted to say shut the fuck up, but I don't know if I should say that. As we lead into the charity stream? Okay, ladies and gentlemen, this is big news for us. We officially have a sponsor of the podcast. This is the day we have been waiting for our whole lives. We are both quitting our day jobs. That's right.

Just kidding. No, it's Gerard the Completionistist he has an amazing youtube show he has been a big supporter of the podcast for a long time he gave us a shout out um during one of his streams and it helped us out a ton i know a lot of you are listening because you heard about us yeah say that yeah let's talk directly over each other sorry what a fool and now he's asking us to promote something let's try to mess that part up too so anyway we're really grateful to to gerard and while we were recording this episode norman came down and was like... Interrupted our fucking show. We were doing a great job. We forgave him this time.

And he gave us the good news that Gerard wanted to sponsor the show and he's got this charity stream coming up. So I hope you all tune into it. Yeah. So ladies and gentlemen, The Completionist presents Indie Land, a 30 hour long charity game stream.

Nope. completionist presents indie land a 30 hour long charity game stream nope we'll never get another sponsor brandy so ladies and gentlemen it's the completionist presents indie land a 30 hour long charity gaming stream focusing solely on indie games from all over the internet join the completionists and his friends as they raise money for the Open Hand Foundation, a foundation founded by the Completionists in an attempt to raise awareness and money for research and treatment for dementia.

It's happening on August 25th through 26th over at twitch.tv slash the Completionists starting at noon Pacific. Guests include Giant Kirkhope. His name is Grant. Did you say Giant Kirkhope? Oh my God. What?

Giant Kirkhope? I'm sorry. Oh my God. I'm sorry. It clearly says Grant. It clearly says Grant. It's Grant. Giant. Grant, you're a giant in my mind.

I'm going to hit that one more time. Gerard, you're really getting your money's worth here. You're getting like the longest sponsorship ever. It's not because we keep messing up. Guests include Grant Kirko, the gaming historian, here you're getting like the longest sponsorship ever it's not because we keep messing up guests include grant kirk hope the gaming historian heard of that guy so beautiful jesse cox and developers from various indie titles hope to see you there once again that's august 25th and 26 over at twitch.tv slash thecompletionist starting at noon pacific.

You've got a piece of lint right on your boob. Saving that. Must have come off my pliers. I gotta say, you look like you're in really good spirits right now. You must have really enjoyed that experience. Okay. I've got an insane one. And I'm really nervous that you know it.

Do you know it? I do. Damn it! Like, was obsessed with it when it happened. Like, I'm in a Facebook group about it. What? What Facebook group are you in? happened like i'm in a facebook group about it what facebook group it's like a facebook group that started when the crime first happened like that day when stuff was just coming out like left and right and you didn't know what was going on and so i've been in it since then i actually have

it hidden now because i don't give a shit anymore it's over i've moved on with my life but in the beginning i was super obsessed so and you knew it so well that you knew what i was talking about based on first degree murder and the text i sent you the other day about a dead mom uh andrew i can see your oh ma'am i'm not that great of a detective. I feel so stupid right now. I was like, you really know your stuff, lady. Okay. Well, this will not be a surprise to you at all.

I'm still super excited for you to cover it because the case is crazy. Okay. And I'm hoping you have really strong opinions about it. I bet you do. Oh, do I? Okay. Okay, so first I want to say right off the top that I got the idea for this and most of this script from Mommy, Dead and Dearest. It's an HBO documentary. You're familiar?

Seen it. Loved it. It's amazing. Yes. If you haven't seen it, you should really? seen it loved it it's amazing yes if you haven't seen it you should really really watch it it's really well done I mean

what HBO documentary is not well done? that's a oh I can think of one you have one? do you want to call it out? that'd be pretty shitty huh?

I'll say it now yeah and maybe I'll cut it the one on Andre the Giant oh I've heard that's really good you didn't care for it? I was not a fan and you know what it's been so long since I saw it that I feel like I can't really give you

any reason can't defend myself at all I have not seen it so I can't even have a debate with you about it Norman and I watched it oh my god I just burped into the mic oh my god that's the first time we've ever done that myself i have not seen it so i can't even have a debate with you about it yeah um norman and i watched it because oh my god i just burped into the mic oh my god that's the first time we've ever although i will say usually i'm the one who usually do it you know what you sabotaged me with this diet coke and i super sabotaged you because i opened that not that long ago

i know how you prefer for me to like open it like half an hour before you arrive. Yes. And then roll out the red carpet. I'm very high maintenance. Okay, so here we go. You ready? I'm so ready. Let's talk about Gypsy Rose Blanchard.

From the time she was like three months old, Gypsy had serious medical problems. So she needed a breathing machine to sleep. She developed problems with her eyes, problems with her hearing, problems with her digestive system. And as she grew older, things just got worse. Eventually she developed leukemia. She had to be tube fed. She eventually developed muscular dystrophy and had to be in a wheelchair. She underwent several different surgeries and had gastrointestinal operations and also had her salivary glands removed. Oh, my gosh. I know. Oh.

So she had this awful list of diagnoses, a few of which were epilepsy, muscular dystrophy, leukemia, lung disease, mild mental retardation, and a heart murmur. And there were others, but I couldn't figure out how to pronounce them. So I left them out. Are we saying mental retardation? Is that what people are saying still? That's what she was diagnosed with, mild mental retardation. I don't know. What's the right term? Mental delay? I don't know. I honestly do not know. Developmentally delayed? I'm not sure. I struggled with this too. Because in the documentary... I'm not asking to be an asshole. literally do not know so i've heard um i've heard cognitive delays

um in the documentary someone said slow and i feel like that yeah i don't think that's correct um but on this list of diagnoses which her mom made to give to doctors it said mild mental retardation excellent so who are we to question that that's correct um she also had other things like incontinence allergies and asthma but her mom didi took really good care of her she'd take gypsy to the doctor whenever she needed it between 2005 and 2014 they went to the hospital more than a hundred times. Holy shit. At their house in Springfield, Missouri, they had this, it looked like a linen closet and it was just stuffed with medications. Yeah. Dee Dee did the best she could to keep Gypsy comfortable

and as healthy as possible, but things didn't look good for the little girl. She was predicted to live into her late teens at best. It was obviously really hard on both of them, but they loved one another and the community in Springfield really seemed to rally around them. was rooting for them. Then on June 14th, 2015, someone logged onto the Facebook page that DeeDee and Gypsy shared, and that person created a status update. It read, the bitch is dead. This is so crazy. It is nuts. So people were like, whoa, holy crap. Have you guys been hacked? What's going on? Are you reacting to a movie?

Because they were like, first of all, which one of them would even be saying this? Why would they be saying it? Then within that post, the original poster replied, I fucking slashed that fat pig and raped her sweet, innocent daughter. Her scream was so fucking loud. LOL. Oh, my gosh. Obviously, people freaked out. Yeah.

They tried calling the house, but didn't get an answer. They tried knocking on the door, didn't get an answer. And I think there had been something done to the window, so you couldn't really look in too easily. So they were just very, very freaked out. But Dee Dee's car was there. Many people have, like, these things. They're blinds.

Go on. So it's like these little slats that, you know, kind of are on a louver and they open and close. And so if they're in a closed position, one wouldn't be able to just, you know, put their eyes up to the window and look in.

You know what, Brandy? We're done here. I'm cutting this all out. Kristen does not have blinds in case you guys didn't pick up on that. Don't tell people that. She has curtains. It's not like you can just see it anytime you want. She has to let you one of them.

She has to want to let you see it. She's going to make the conscious decision to open those curtains. You know, I'm not a fan of blinds. Yeah. I'm not a fan of strangers looking in i'm not a fan of strangers looking in my windows so i have blinds in my house you should be generous with people you should put on a show give the people what they want okay although i will say there is a park directly across the street from my house so i feel like maybe that's like a little i'm on a little different level

because there are people coming and going from that thing. I don't need to see indirectly into my home. You know, at first, when you first started saying that, I thought you were trying to say like, oh, it's all good because I've got woods. And I thought, no, there's like a playground structure directly across the street from my house. And 100% great people hang out in parks all the time. Absolutely. structure, directly across the street from my house. And 100% great people hang out in parks all the time. Absolutely. We all know this. Never any creepers.

Quick story. Sure. We, it was like a really nice like fall day and we had like all the windows open so the blinds were open. You could see right into our living room. And there was a lot of people at the park because it was really beautiful out. Right. And so Zach and I start watching this movie and the opening of this movie i know which movie

you're talking about so graphic first of all we thought we had picked like the wrong movie or something at first and it was so graphic that we both looked at each other like oh god i hope nobody looks in here right now the movie movie is Nocturnal Animals. Yes. And if you've never seen the beginning of that movie, go check it out and then report back on how you would feel about somebody just catching a glimpse of that looking in.

Pull up your blinds. Hold open those curtains and blast that movie on your biggest TV. That is right. Did I ever tell you about the time that Norman and I were going for a walk with Peanut? And we, so someone had their blinds down uh-huh but like you could just see through the slats yeah so they were in an open position no it's weird it was like they were low quality or something or like that's weird you know or maybe they weren't closed all the way. Gotcha. Hardcore porn on TV.

Okay, how much of it did you see that you were able to determine that it was hardcore porn and not softcore porn? Do you really want to know? Yes! Okay, okay. Literally, it was doggy style. And of course, the woman's like facing the camera like, ah. And I mean, you could see the full deal it wasn't some like soft core like oh oh you know not showing anything going in or out or in

or side to side i'm sorry continue on with the. I feel like I had another story I wanted to tell you. Oh, oh. Here's a terrible thing. Okay. This is so mortifying. Yeah. I had forgotten about this. At our old house, we moved in and we had this really nice master bathroom. Yeah.

And it had curtains. Like, I wouldn't have necessarily chosen these, but they came with the house and they were fine. They were like these bamboo shade things. So, you know, we kept those down because it was in the bathroom. And we'd been living there for like, I'm going to say a year. This is horrible. So to get a sense of the layout, there were windows, a bunch of windows for the turret. Yeah. And then on kind of the other, on the far side of the bathroom was like a separate area where you'd go close the door.

That was where the toilet was. That's where the shower was. Yeah. So Norman left the house to go for a walk. And I was upstairs and I needed to go to the bathroom. And I did not shut the bathroom door because I was the only one in the house yeah so I'm sitting there peeing and all of a sudden I hear the door go wide open downstairs and Norman goes shut the door shut the door shut the door and at first I like didn't even know what he was talking about. Like shut what door?

Right. That's when I found out that like for a year you could totally see. You could totally see. Oh my gosh. He told me that like you couldn't totally see me completely on the toilet. But like you could see someone in a seated position clearly. But like you could see someone in a seated position clearly. So what I'm trying to say is blinds do exist.

Bamboo curtains do exist. Sometimes you can see through them. This has been a PSA. To backtrack just a smidge there's a terrible facebook post yes people were freaked out they couldn't get into the house they tried to look in the windows but as brandy pointed out there are these things called blinds that they probably had but i feel like i read something that said they had the windows frosted or something. I don't know. So just calm down. So they called the police and asked them to do a welfare check.

A little while later, police show up at the house. And they are horrified. Dee Dee is lying face down in her bed, dead. She was stabbed to death. Do you want to say your line? There was blood fucking everywhere. I feel like I stole this case right out from under you. And Gypsy was...

I've had 29 weeks to do it, so... Yeah, get on it, lady. No, you're totally fine. if you want to cover all the stabbings you know yeah no you're you're not doing anything wrong kristen thank you do you just feel sorry for me because that toilet stuff so gypsy was nowhere to be found. People were like, oh my God, where could that little girl be? Has she been kidnapped? Oh my gosh, her wheelchair is here. All of her medications are still here.

You know, even if someone has taken her and doesn't plan to kill her, she'll die without all of her medication. Yeah. A few days later, they found her. But she hadn't been kidnapped. And she wasn't distressed. What? She was walking.

What? She was walking very well. Oh my gosh! And she was with her boyfriend, Nick. I knew all of this. I know. I really appreciate the effort you're putting in here. Sorry.

Oh, I should also say, my dad was the one who told me to do this case. He couldn't remember any of the details, but he'd seen a 2020 episode about it a while ago. He was like, this is crazy. This is crazy. Then I watched the documentary i was like this is what my dad was trying to tell me yeah like lassie trying to tell me someone fell in the well what's that lassie to the well

what 2020 case with a lot of twists a girl with a high-pitched voice so police brought both of them in for questioning yeah and nick just laid it all out there he said that he killed didi because gypsy asked him to meanwhile in the other interrogation room gypsy's kind of playing dumb so they have video of this and it's kind of interesting so the officer walks in and he's just like he's getting straight to the point he's like your mom is dead i need you to be honest with me and she's like what whoa what oh my god and he's like yes she's dead he's kind of giving her the yeah okay you can save the theatrics for later. Let's get to what role did you play?

But she's acting shocked. She starts crying. But by then, the investigators had pretty much everything they needed. Nick had confessed. He said that Gypsy had asked him to do it. And their text messages backed up what Nick was saying. One exchange went like this. Gypsy.

The shit's going down tonight. Nick. Babe, it's my evil side doing it. He won't mess up because he enjoys killing. Ugh, gross. Yep. Gypsy. We'll be happy soon.

After this night, we will never bring it up that's disgusting yeah so it was a weird case it was a disturbing case i think initially a lot of people were like poor gypsy you know she has these mental delays. He has taken advantage of her. Yeah, absolutely. She's so young. Yes. But ultimately, it was a pretty open and shut case. This was premeditated murder. So they charged Gypsy and Nick with first degree murder. Duh.

Yeah. But then when the sheriff broke the news at a press conference, just like not long after this whole thing happened, he warned everyone things are not always as they appear. The people that gave me goosebumps. Yeah. I mean, it's like when you know the story, you're like, oh, good. And it makes you wonder how much did he know at that point? The people of Springfield, Missouri were stunned.

They didn't know what to think. First of all, they couldn't believe that Gypsy could walk. They'd never seen that happen. Friends and family felt very betrayed. Because a lot of them helped Dee Dee and Gypsy out of the goodness of their hearts. For years, the two of them had gotten free trips to Disney World. They got a house through Habitat for Humanity. They participated in the Make-A-Wish Foundation.

The documentary included footage of the two of them up at some, I think it was some kind of, you know, cancer survivor event where Gypsy sang. Yeah. That song. I believe that I angels among us. I'll be cutting this out. What song is that? No, she sings it in that really creepy voice.

It's like, I believe there are angels among us. That's how she sounds. That is how she sounds. And it's like, oh, it's cringy. That was super creepy just now. If you think that was creepy, folks, you've got to watch that documentary. But yeah, for context, she sounds like this. Yeah, she really does.

And I think she's like five feet tall, really small. Yeah. So people had donated their time. They donated money. It was like GoFundMe campaign after GoFundMe campaign. So friends and neighbors had a ton of questions. Was it true that Gypsy could walk? Had she always been able to walk?

Had she ever been sick at all? Mm-hmm. Oh, and by the way, how old was she? Police were like, great questions. We love where your head's at. We'll get back to you. So they start looking more deeply into Gypsy's past. They started with the simplest question.

How old is Gypsy? She looked like a child. Mm-hmm. Sounded like a child. But Gypsy's medical records gave a bunch of different dates of birth. Eventually, they discovered that, in fact, she was an adult. Uh-huh. I believe when the murder happened, she was either 19 or in her early 20s yeah some

some speculated as old as like 23 when it happened but there's not like a real i have any i haven't come across like a definitive answer of how old she actually is yeah i started looking yeah i mean i didn't look that. I'm not part of a Facebook group or anything. But yeah, she's what they know for sure is she is an adult. Yes. Investigators look deeper into this case, and it was even weirder than they initially expected. Because not only could Gypsy walk, she didn't suffer from any kind of mental delay. She didn't appear to suffer from any of the diseases her mother had claimed she had.

In fact, this appeared to be a very severe case of Munchausen by proxy. Yes! Her mother had been making all this shit up. Forcing Gypsy to undergo surgeries, which is just unimaginable. Forcing her to sleep with a sleeping mask. Putting in a feeding tube, which my understanding is that that's a painful process. I would imagine. I don't know. I don't want anybody sticking any tubes in me.

What about those pliers? I guess the pliers don't go in yet. That's right. You're using them wrong, Kristen. The documentary said that they don't put you under when they put that feeding tube in. And every six months they change it. And they just rip it out, you know? Yeah.

And of course her mom had been lying to her about how old she was. So she's lying to everyone, including Gypsy. All to get sympathy and money from other people. Mike Stanfield, Gypsy's attorney, was like, holy shit. Yeah. This is a first degree murder charge. Who knows what could happen because we're in Missouri. Uh-huh.

And we've talked about this before. Yeah. In Missouri, we love the death penalty. That's right. Not afraid to give the death penalty here. That's right. Not afraid to give that death penalty out. Not afraid to carry it out either. We're not quite Texas, but we're close. So this could be a death penalty situation.

I'd just like to clarify that I live in Kansas. Kristen is saying we, but. Wow. Wow. Kristen is saying we but Wow Brandy is so snobby And so proud of her Kansas status That she can't even for like one minute

Be like yes I'm part of this Let me tell you you're in our territory now If you commit any crimes over here Fidelity all the way You don't get to be like well actually I'm from Kansas It's just a speeding ticket. I'm from Kansas, so I'm actually like

better, nicer, gentler. Better looking. Cooler. He's thinking, this could be a death penalty situation, and if not that, she could get life without parole. Yeah.

I need to find a way to show mitigating circumstances. So he starts going through gypsy's massive medical records yeah and he kept finding that the information doctors relied on always came from dd at one point a doctor noted that dd put her hands over gypsy's ears under the guise of like, well, I don't want to offend her, but she has the mental capacity of a seven-year-old. Yeah. Then Mike discovered that Dee Dee would lie about the family's medical history, sort of depending on which doctor they went to.

So they're at the cardiologist. She's like, oh, everyone in our family has died of a heart attack. Yeah. And it appears that a lot of doctors bought it. Mm-hmm. And they acted on it. Yeah.

Another important point, just because I don't want to paint all these doctors with the same kind of broad brush here, I'm sure that her being on all these different medications did actually give her some legit medical issues. Well, yeah. So there was probably some stuff to treat. Specifically, sorry, if I say this and you're going to do it. So the seizure medicine that she was being forced to take caused all of her teeth to fall out. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes.

I thought they were pulled or something. Oh, my God. Yes. So she was unnecessarily on seizure medicine because she had epilepsy in air quotes and it made all of her teeth fall out. That is terrible. Yes. Okay.

Do you know the thing about the salivary glands? No. Okay. So what Dee Dee would do to her is she would numb her so that by the time they'd get to the doctor's office, she'd be drooling uncontrollably and dd would be like we've got to do something about these salivary glands so they started botoxing uh-huh but you know she'd just numb her up even more they'd go to the doctor again and finally that's how she got that surgery oh my salivary gosh

fucked up what imagine what your mouth would be like without salivary i. Gosh. Fucked up. What? Imagine what your mouth would be like without salivary glands. I know. I was thinking that. Like, that would just be awful. Yeah. Ugh. So, like I said, she probably did have some legit medical issues.

Yeah. But they're going from doctor to doctor to doctor and then one day didi and gypsy went to a pediatric neurologist named bernardo flasterstein flasterstein that's what it says flasterstein listen my last name is pitt so i'm not making fun of anybody you have fun over there egan he sees gypsy by the way i did have to change your i know sad day i've only been at egan for like almost 11 years now christine. But in my mind, you're not. Like, I see you and I think, like, fifth grade.

I don't think, like, well, she did get married and she changed her last name, so I need to change her in my phone. But yeah, for a Twitter post we did a couple days ago where we talked about ideas for the show, I wanted to screenshot our conversation and I had your maiden name in there and i was like no one's gonna know who that is they're gonna think that's super weird yeah so

anyway now you're brandy egan you're gonna be like wow kristin has two hilarious friends named brandy the jealousy would be overwhelming i can't deal with all that hate. So Bernardo Flasterstein, he sees Gypsy and she's in this wheelchair, which by that point she'd been in for nine years. And he noticed something very odd about her legs.

They were muscular. Not super muscular and not as muscular as like just a normal. I shouldn't say normal, just an average person. But for being in a wheelchair for nine years, she should have had like zero muscle mass. Yeah. Seriously atrophied. No muscle.

Yeah. Yeah. He did an MRI of her brain and an MRI of her spine and everything looked normal. So he was pretty alarmed. He did some digging and discovered that another doctor that Gypsy had visited said, no, she does not have muscular dystrophy. So he wrote a letter after their visit. And in that letter, he wrote in bold and underlined, the mother is not a good historian. He said he had a strong reason to believe that this could be Munchausen by proxy, and he put the letter in her file. Okay, we'll get to more about how I feel about this. But

so he said he thought about doing more. He thought about calling social services. But he said, you know, that's for kids who have been abused. And this wasn't abused or neglect, but this wasn't neglect. He felt like that didn't fall into that category. Which I disagree with. I completely disagree with. I think that's a massive cop out. Yeah. And he also said that, you know, so many people in the medical community bought that, that he felt like he'd reached the limit of what he could do.

Again, I disagree. Mm hmm. I feel like I'm willing to cut a lot of people some slack, but I don't buy the whoa, poor as me. Pediatric neurologist. Yeah. You know, no, poor as me, pediatric neurologist. You know, no, you're in a position of power. You're an intelligent person. Yeah. You can do more.

Aren't you an obligated reporter? I would think so. Yeah. And I hate to jump on this guy because he did do something. Yeah. Whereas it appears like quite a few people didn't yeah but i don't know i just felt like the documentary was pretty flattering on him and i yeah i couldn't quite figure out why yeah i just am not buying that that was all that he could do

i completely think it's abuse and i think he should have reported it and I believe that he's probably obligated to report it yes but anyway so he wrote this letter in her file and it did ultimately help her case to have that documented but yeah I just I just want to go on record

in that position she was so helpless. Yeah. He, I think he could have done more. Mm-hmm. So Mike Stanfield, the lawyer, is looking at this letter like, wow, this is huge. He notices the date on the letter. It's 2007.

But interestingly, even though that was their local hospital in Springfield, Missouri, even though that was their local hospital in Springfield, Missouri. After Dr. Flasterstein wrote that letter, Dee Dee stopped taking Gypsy to that hospital. In fact, they didn't go back there for like eight years. Then Mike figures out why. Dee Dee would always request the medical records. Yep.

So she got a copy of that letter and was like, oh shit, this guy's on to me. I need to go somewhere else. Pretty soon, more stuff comes out about Dee Dee. Stuff from way back in her past. About how she was wanted by Louisiana police for writing bad checks. And about how she ran up credit card debt in family members names and about how she got caught poisoning her stepmom. Didi was putting roundup in her food. Oh, it's so crazy. Yeah. Her stepmom, Laura, who survived, obviously said there was nothing she couldn't get away with. Dee Dee's family was very blunt.

They said her mom, Emma, had been the same way. She was a shoplifter and she would steal from family too. Wow. In the documentary, Gypsy's stepmom said that Dee Dee had been the one caring for her mother toward the end of her life. And she thinks that Dee Dee starved her to death. Mm-hmm. So, Dee Dee's family wasn't surprised when she was murdered. And some of them said she got what she deserved.

They cremated her body and her dad called Dee Dee's siblings and was like, hey, what should we do with her? And everyone was like, I don't care. I don't want her yeah and finally her sister was like how about you flush her down the toilet yep do you remember that i do okay so i had a vague memory of that and i was like i almost said it i was like i hope i'm not making that up i'm not gonna say that yeah no that, that's for sure what was said. By November 9th, 2015, all this new evidence had come out about what Dee Dee was really like and what Gypsy had gone through. I feel awful for Gypsy.

Yes. The prosecution has had more time with the case they looked at some of the medical evidence that the defense defense provided and they decided yeah gypsy and nick murdered didi and they planned it but we don't feel good about the death penalty anymore no we're taking that off the table and that's something that the defense and the prosecution really worked out together. It seems like both sides actually felt bad for Gypsy. We're like, this is not an appropriate case for that. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, if Missouri says they're not going to kill me. No kidding! That's almost a compliment. So Mark Feldman, who's a Munchausen expert and was quoted in the documentary, said one way to look at this is like a hostage trying to escape. And I think that's pretty spot on. Looking back, most neighbors and friends were like, yeah, I never had a conversation alone with Gypsy. They mentioned that Dee Dee would always hold Gypsy's hand. And Gypsy said that if they were ever in a group setting and she said

something she wasn't supposed to say, her mom would squeeze her hand like, shut up. When they were in public, it was all smiles and love. But when they were alone, Gypsy said that her mom was physically abusive. You know, this really takes me back to when we were talking about blinds it makes sense that their windows would be frosted because gypsy's up walking around in their house and dd's abusing her you wouldn't want anybody to accidentally see that exactly so that makes perfect sense yes yeah um the other back my

snarkiness about the blinds very good one thing i did want to say is like there's some speculation about like well how much did gypsy know was gypsy in on some of this stuff yeah gypsy said for what it's worth that obviously she knew that she could walk. Yeah. But the other stuff she believed. Yeah. Which I think is probably completely true. Yeah, I think so too.

Why would you doubt it? Yeah. So it turns out Gypsy had tried to escape before. Things had been so bad that... I'm going to repeat exactly what I just said. So things had been so bad uh that i'm gonna repeat exactly what i just said so things had been so bad that gypsy had tried to run away from home before yeah she and a friend went to a sci-fi convention and she told him a bit about what was happening back home and he said pack a bag come live with me in arkansas yeah so she sn. So she snuck out of the house

and her mom found her within about four hours. A mutual friend told her where Gypsy might be. Dee Dee gets there. She threatens to call the cops on him. She's like, Gypsy is underage. Gypsy's like, no, I'm not. And when the two of them got home, she smashed Gypsy's cell phone and computer with a hammer

and said, if you do that again, I'll smash your fingers with a hammer. After that, she handcuffed Gypsy to her bed for two weeks. So I want to pause here, because this wasn't in the documentary, but I read something, and I'm sure you probably know about it, where she had tried to tell someone else

about what was going on at home but and like she had her actual birth certificate to say no i'm of legal age like i can i can go be with someone but her mom showed up with a doctored birth certificate yes i do remember that because they'd come from katrina yes after hurricane kat hit, they'd come up. Okay. Yes. Okay. I'm glad you're giving me that face because, okay, let me just say this.

Yes. So the documentary talks about how after Hurricane Katrina hit, you know, they had to move. They had to be evacuated. And I thought, really?

Like, I kept waiting for some story about how, like, they hadn't really been victims of hurricane katrina yeah but i couldn't find anything what they weren't really the family has said that they were not really victims of hurricane katrina that it was a uh just a way because they it was an excuse to

have lost all of her medical records uh-huh yep and to get free housing and all kinds of stuff yeah yeah that they were not really victims of hurricane and probably also to move further away from gypsy's biological dad yes but i don't know why i said biological her dad yes yeah because it wasn't like there were anybody there were any dudes like trying to knock down Dee Dee's door Let me be a part of this Right? She was a looker No

You know Gypsy didn't have epilepsy And Dee Dee was not a looker These are just the facts The facts of this case. Okay, so I'm glad you know that. Because I was kind of curious about that. Because it smelled like bullshit to me. The family has said it's bullshit.

That they were not victims of Hurricane Katrina. I trust that family. Anyone who's so honest that they're like, yeah, we wanted to flush her down the toilet. I'm like, okay. You probably have the story. Sometime after that runaway attempt, Dee Dee went to a lawyer and had papers drawn up saying that Gypsy was incompetent.

At that point, Gypsy was screwed. They also said she was incontinent. Sorry. God. Was that like a few paragraphs down? You know, like, if you just want to read the important stuff, stick to incompetence. That's right. If incompetence, not enough. I feel like she craps her pants, too.

She's not of age, and you're going to have a real mess on your hands. Sorry. Sorry. she's not of age and you're gonna have a real mess on your hands sorry she's like well if i try to go to the police and tell them what's really going on here then my mom is just gonna pull up these papers and they'll send me back with her yeah of course yeah and gypsy's prediction was correct someone was suspicious about what was going on with Gypsy. So they anonymously called the police and asked them to check things out. But when the cops got there, Dee Dee did all the talking. And she convinced them that there was nothing bad going on. Mm-hmm.

So they left. I just... She was a master manipulator. Yeah. I just I think she was a master manipulator yeah and I think especially like

when you see Gypsy you know in this wheelchair she always had like a stuffed animal with her I mean she just

looked like a little kid well she was tiny yes yes and and she didn't have any hair we should say that

too her mom was shaving her head under the guise of oh you're gonna lose all your hair anyway let's just yeah And she didn't have any hair. We should say that, too. Her mom was shaving her head. Under the guise of, oh, you're going to lose all your hair anyway. Let's just. Yeah. Yeah.

And it makes you look more sickly. Oh, yeah. It's just terrible, all of the stuff that she went through. Yeah. And, I mean, you can see why it would be hard to see the truth when you've got these two people. Oh, yeah. The mom looks like she's just, you know, this very put-upon person who's just trying her best. Yeah. And the daughter is just, you know, she's got all these problems.

Yeah. So no one seemed able to help her. Her dad was sort of in the picture. Like I said, so he lived in Louisiana and it seemed like he would call and everything, but they didn't share custody or anything. And it seemed like he believed everything that Dee Dee said. Well, he didn't know Dee Dee that well. They had never been like in an in a relationship yeah she just like so she got pregnant and he's like okay i'm gonna do the right thing here and they got

married and then he left after like a year yeah yeah yeah it just really makes me wish that they had split custody because that would have saved. Yeah. Gypsy. PSA for dads. Stay in your children's lives. I feel kind of bad because he he feels terrible. And he legitimately didn't know what was going on. Right.

To the degree of what was happening like i i think he had heard some stuff like at one point um someone told him gypsy can walk and so he asked dd about it and dd gave him some bullshit story but i just think that if he if he'd had gypsy for like every other weekend, like they would have talked. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But Deedee would have never let that happen. But he's the father. Okay. Wouldn't the court have...

Kristen, she managed to convince doctors that her daughter had epilepsy and leukemia and muscular dystrophy, I imagine she could probably convince a court that the dad was bad and shouldn't be in his daughter's life. Yeah. But did he try? I don't know.

Probably not. Maybe that's unfair. Maybe he did try. But you're right. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to say like she needs all you know she needs a wheelchair ramp she needs to be in this safe environment i'd heard that she actually told people that he was an abusive alcoholic and that that was one of the reasons why she always changed the spelling of her name yeah don't you imagine she probably would have told the court that too, Kristen?

Yeah, fine. Okay. Okay. So he's not the villain here. I just get mad when I'm thinking like someone should have caught this. Yes, I agree. But I think that Dee Dee did a lot to make sure people didn't catch this. Yeah.

Yeah. Including claiming she was a Hurricane Katrina victim and lost all medical records. That was medical. It sounded a bit like Meckle. So to recap, the doctors aren't much help. Yeah.

The police aren't much help. Her dad really isn't much help. So then one day, do you want to call him a super douche no i don't see that's the thing i don't think he was a super douche i think he was manipulated by didi and i i wish that he'd had some kind of custody yeah yeah but you're right even if he never would have let that happen you're right you're right even if he never would have let that happen you're right you're right i think i'm too hard on people in these cases where it's like well because it seems like doing the right thing would be so easy and now you see the whole picture because we're looking at it from

an outsider's view obviously yeah it's easy for us to cast judgment yeah but you know glass houses and stones and all that you know what they say norman can actually walk i know you all see him at seated in front of a desk a lot when he's streaming i just have to confess he can walk anyway so one day after her mom was asleep gypsy logs on to christian dating.com she wanted a dude yeah and that's how she met nick she immediately fell hard for him uh-huh i mean you think about like she's been completely isolated she's been told she's this little girl with all these delays but in reality she's a grown woman who with urges wants to bang i mean that's what i'm trying to say it's like she's you know she's got I'm trying to say. It's like, she's, you know, she's got hormones. She's watching all these Disney movies.

And she's like, mm. So, like, immediately she falls for this guy. Because, you know, why wouldn't you? Yeah. Well, we'll read more about him and find out why you wouldn't. But in that situation, why wouldn't you? So he had his own issues, too. He had autism and Asperger's. And in 2013, he'd been arrested for watching porn in a McDonald's and fondling himself for nine hours.

Nine hours? Okay, I have so many issues with that okay so that's i am quoting following himself from for nine hours that is a quote from a newscast is it non-stop for nine hours is it like you know for a little bit and then eat some french fries and then he goes back to it they're so i also have all these questions part of it is i just don't that can't be right first of all even if you weren't in a public place could you really fondle yourself for nine hours when you get bored or be like i need to eat or like something no but then like what are we supposed to believe no that's why he's at mcdon McDonald's so he gets the grease from the cheese burger.

But seriously, nine hours? Nine hours? That's what it said. I'm sorry, who's putting up with that like, well, I'm sure he'll stop soon. No! The McDonald's people like for the first eight and a half hours were like, alright.

And then that's where they drew the line. They had to stopwatch. And they're like, if this gets on to nine hours, we are calling the police. I understood for the first seven. These last two hours have been just gross. You can just take advantage of that free Wi-Fi. Have you ever been in a public place and seen someone? What?

Have I done what? No. Have you ever been in a... Have you ever been in a public place and seen someone watching porn i'm not asking if you i have yes yes just for the record i've also never looked at porn in a public place let's all follow brandy tim mcdonald's no it's when you go to wendy's you're waiting for that chili so yeah it was at the library actually when i was a kid i mean what are you supposed to do if you

don't have internet connection at home use your imagination get a a magazine. I mean, this was like, I remember we walked by this guy, and he had a newspaper. He's not even being subtle about it. He's made a newspaper tent around the house. Yes, yes. That's exactly. He had it, like, over his head. And I remember Kyla and I were with my mom, and I remember looking over, just because it looked so weird, that this old man

had a newspaper tent around one of the computers. And then you noticed that he'd also pitched a tent. Oh! Yeah. I tell you what, librarians have a tough job.

It's not all books. Librarians, McDonald's managers. These are the things that are not in the job description. Where you have to go up to an adult man and be like, could you not? Bus drivers, don't you imagine? They probably have to. Oh, gross. Oh, yeah.

I would be. I don't want any of those jobs i would be a hardcore bitch if i had a job or even once i'd had to tell someone to stop fondling themselves like nine hours i was about to say that would harden me but I thought that'd be a gross word to use. So I delayed it. Now I'm saying it. Saying it anyway. Okay, so shit got weird really fast because Gypsy was so sheltered. And she, I mean, the combination of these two. So she's got this like fairy tale fantasy of love.

She loves all these Disney princess movies. And he starts talking to her about BDSM. Yeah. They say opposites attract. She had no idea what that meant. She had to Google it. Yeah. And he starts talking to her about it.

She's not into it, but she starts kind of wrapping her head around the idea. And then all of a sudden, one of his ex-girlfriends reached out to her and was like, hey, he's a really bad guy. And Gypsy was like, you're just jealous. So she ignored it. At this point, Nick and Gypsy are talking for hours every night after Dee Dee's asleep. It seemed like they would communicate mostly through a secret Facebook account. I saw somewhere that Gypsy had like five different Facebook accounts. Yeah. So she'd send him photos, the whole deal. I don't know why I wrote the

whole deal. I literally wrote the whole deal. the whole deal. I don't know why I wrote the whole deal. I literally wrote the whole deal. The whole deal. You know what? I think it does imply she sent him photos. That could mean, you know. Yeah, face, selfies. She sent him photos, the whole deal. The whole deal.

The new deal. The entire taco. I was going to say the whole enchilada, but. But yeah, taco. Tacos were descriptive. She also made up multiple personalities to be girlfriends with Nick's multiple personalities. That's weird. Yeah, it's not great.

That's not great. So there are all these pictures of her in different wigs and outfits being these different personas. I'm sorry. It's so weird. Especially when you hear her talk about it. And she's like, and then I had this personality that's like blah, blah, blah. Can't handle you talking in that voice. I know. I know.

So this went on. I don't know how long they dated. I want to say more than a year. Yeah, I think so. Is everything okay? I was trying to belch away from the microphone, Kristen. Thank you for bringing attention to it. Well, you looked weirdly at my little Glade plug-in, and I was like, is it bothering her? Is that too strong a scent?

I was concerned about your well-being. Doing a welfare check on you. A welfare check. Everything's great. Thank you. Oh, man. You're like the mean lady at the restaurant. Yeah, we're fine. We're fine. Don't come back here unless you see our beverage

is empty. Thank you. Goodbye. And then they complain when it takes forever to get the chuck. I'm getting flashbacks. Did I ever tell you that for years I would have nightmares about Johnson County women asking me for ramekins of honey mustard? Finally, they decided they had to meet in real life i love this story do you love this i love this story um but gypsy obviously couldn't just like leave the house no so she told nick look my mom and i are going to the movies we're going to see the live action cinderella movie

come to the movie theater we'll act like we're in meeting see the live action Cinderella movie. Come to the movie theater. We'll act like we're in meeting for the first time. Have you seen it? No. Neither have I. No. Have seen the live action Beauty and the Beast. It's excellent.

You should watch it. Why did you see that? It's so good. I love Beauty and the Beast. What do you mean, why did I see that? When did that come out? Like two years ago. And how old are you? I saw not in the fucking theater kristin

okay was it you and a bunch of little kids i mean i yeah you're probably on some kind of watch list there were adults there too yeah were they with their kids lots of people saw it in the theater christian was it like you and a bunch of single dudes in trench coats who'd been there for like nine hours no it was excellent i fucking cried you cried yeah at what part i'm not gonna tell you okay you know okay the original beauty and the beast uh-huh cartoon yeah i thought gaston super hot yeah he was the bad guy i know who he is I have a thing for bad guys

that's why I'm married to Norm kind of the bad boy of YouTube the bad boy of the video game industry could not be further from the truth so they have this plan that they're going to act like they're going to meet at the theater

and become friends which who makes friends that easily? You don't. That's bullshit. It just doesn't happen. No. I make no friends.

Zero friends. Everywhere I go. I have to still be friends with you. I make new friends. I did my horrible laugh, my cough laugh. It's like, well, we locked this in an elementary school. Not going to change things up no matter what happens. You could do all kinds of horrible things.

I'd be like, well, you know. We've already been friends this long. It's kind of that time cost fallacy. Grooming a new friend. Is she going to create multiple personalities for my multiple personalities? So that's exactly what they did. They meet up at the movie theater.

Yeah. Somehow they snuck away and had sex with each other in the movie theater bathroom, which sounds horrifying. That sounds like the worst. Yes. The worst sex. Not interested in that at all.

Just for the record. Yeah. I mean, right? Like I have so many questions about this because yeah. Was she a virgin? Well, of course I'm sure it didn't say that, but she had to be, right?

Man, that sounds like the worst. The other thing I wonder is, like, would they, like, do it on, like, the changing table? Well, like, so I just feel like it'd be really hard to do because, like, Dee Dee's there, so they have to kind of sneak away. And Gypsy's in a wheelchair oh I forgot about the wheelchair yeah I mean that's so I mean

I'm just guessing that she probably got up he sat down and then yeah and it had to be a quick one nine hours I couldn't have spent nine hours in there okay the other thing i thought are we focusing on the wrong thing yeah we for sure are we for sure are but no the other thing i i think is right they both showed up in costume oh yeah she was dressed as cinderella, but he was dressed as Prince Charming. Right? I didn't even know that part. I think so. Excellent. I think this was part of her fantasy. Yeah.

To be banged in the movie bathroom by Prince Charming. Boy. We've all had that one. Who hasn't had that fantasy? With the Dyson hand dryers in the bathroom going off. But yeah, I think they were both in costume, which again, if you're in a wheelchair and you look like a child, then that's cute. She didn't get the handicap stall, so there's more room in there.

We are for sure focusing on the wrong. Clearly. But overall, the plan didn't go great dd was like this dude is creepy he's an adult man at a kid's movie i hope you don't feel judged brandy no i am proud of seeing beauty and the Beast in the theater. It was so fucking good. Did you go alone? No, I didn't go alone. I went with Casey. Okay.

And then I went a second time. Oh, no, you didn't. With Kim and my nieces and nephews. I went with kids one time. Well, that's acceptable. I thought maybe Zach went with you, and I was like, he is. Fuck no. There's no way I'd get him to go to that.

I watched it on Netflix the other day, and he was like, what the fuck is this? Would he ever see that with you? No. In the theater? Yeah. No. Because he's like, we're two adults without kids? No, because he likes, like, Pixar movies.

He'd see a Pixar movie. I think we have seen a Pixar movie together in theaters. Maybe The Incredibles. We were younger then. Does that make it acceptable? Like 18? I was going to say, that was like 10 years ago at least. No, it was when we were dating man 13 years ago almost 14 years ago

those were the days it was a long time ago yeah dang yeah yeah okay man we are all over the place this episode okay so they're at the movies and didi's like this guy's a fucking weirdo by the way why are you sweaty coming out of the bathroom so we're creating this kind of turning point. Dee Dee did not like Nick. Yeah. Gypsy was growing more and more independent, felt more and more trapped.

Have you intentionally not said his last name because you don't know how to pronounce it? Go to John? Because I don't know how to pronounce it. I think it's go to John. Is it go to John? Yeah, I think so. No, for some reason, I don't always like to do last names. That's fine.

Just because I keep it a little informal. Yeah. You know? Keep it a little loose. That's right. I'm not some uptight journalist sticking with the last names. Gypsy had told Nick everything about what was going on in her home life. And they'd talked about him killing her mom under the guise of him protecting her.

Eventually, Gypsy texted Nick and basically said, I'm ready. So he got on a Greyhound bus and headed for Springfield, Missouri. I feel like every time we mention the Greyhound bus on this podcast, it's not a good thing. Once he got there, Gypsy waited until her mom was asleep, and she texted him, I left the gloves outside the front door. The screen door is squeaky, so try to open it just enough to get in, and close it gentle. So she does this series of texts.

The next one is, I'll hand you the knife and duct tape inside, darling. Next one is, I'm doing my nails, too. I'm painting them a dark pink. What the fuck? Do you have a friend like this? I have a friend like this who, like, they'll send you, like, five, like, a message that could go into one text, like, five different times. So you're like, oh, my God, someone's dead. Because it goes ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Yeah. That's what this looks like gosh i'm doing my nails too painting them a dark pink i just think that says a lot about like her mindset yeah yeah like she's not grounded in reality not at all like here's important info yeah Here's where the knife will be to murder my mom. Yeah. My nails are going to look great. Yeah. Don't worry. Don't worry. So then later he texts, I'm here. And you get your ass to the bathroom.

You open the door. And she says, yes, sir. I'm going now, sir. Bleh. Gross. Hey, she. I'm sorry. I'm not.

Again, we're not trying to be judgy of people who are into that kind of thing i think we have like established that we are in fact very judgy of bdsm okay here we don't mean to be we don't mean to be it's not for us but we it's totally fine that it's for you i don't care at all if that's what you you're into, good for you. Be safe. Have a safe word, please. Do you have any suggestions for safe words? Flamingo. That's a good one.

Yeah. You're not going to accidentally say it. Not my flamingo. Good one. Let's see. So she goes to the bathroom. Here's her mom wake up. Here's her shout for help.

Here's her scream. And eventually nothing. Here's where it gets even grosser. Apparently he told Gypsy, I'll kill her, but I want to do it my way. I want to rape her. What? You didn't know this? I don't think so. Yeah, he said, I want to rape her what you didn't know this i don't think so yeah he said i want

to rape her too and gypsy was like no i want you to kill my mom but i don't want you to rape her you can rape me instead after you kill her i'm yes say what you're thinking because i feel like I'm thinking the same thing. Well, that's not rape. By definition. Yeah. She's just offering sex with her, which is not the same thing. Yeah. I feel the same way.

And like, okay, so there's more to this. Like, police took photos later, and it did show bruises. Gypsy said she didn't consider it consensual because she screamed for him to stop and he didn't it's complicated i okay this is why you need a safe word yeah don't well no don't you think she did it because that's what he wanted? Yeah. It might, she would, it was a role play. I mean, I can see how if someone says you can rape me, then part of that role play would be saying,

no, I'm screaming. Yeah. Um, but that's why you need a safe word. I would think so that, you know, which,

no, this whole thing is fucked up. don't know i feel like we're not in the position to give advice on this at all for more tips on bdsm please consult a different podcast can you imagine if someone came here for their bdsm tips they've got like a little note but they're like interesting these two don't seem very. They've got like a little note, but they're like, interesting. These two don't seem very knowledgeable. They've got a lot of judgments though. So

after all that, they wiped the place down for prints and left in a taxi to head for the Days Inn Hotel, where they laid in bed and ate brownies. Where'd they get the brownies? I don't know i mean it looked like a tray of brownies like a little tinfoil like maybe what you'd buy at a grocery store okay all right uh they took video of it and so this is so weird because it's like

right after this murder has happened the camera's Nick, and he's eating a brownie. And Gypsy is giggling. And she's like, he's eating a brownie, and later he'll be eating me. Oh, good! Yeah, and she's, like, cracking herself up. Ugh! Gross. Get it? Yeah, I get it.

Thanks. After they were done eating mean it's so disturbing if you know what her voice sounds like that's like a small child saying that yeah no it's really fucking gross disgusting does it help to think that she's in her 20s slightly yeah so after they were done eating they got on a greyhound bus brownies and more yeah uh they got on the greyhound bus back to nick's mom's house in wisconsin and the whole time gypsy was pretty excited. She said she felt like a bird that was set free. So they arrive at Nick's. I imagine she did.

Yeah. I mean, she's walking outside. Yeah. She's got wigs on. She's with her boyfriend. She's finally getting to be. Just got eaten out. Whoa.

She's finally getting to be the adult i was trying i was trying to be a little you know a little nicer about it we should probably cut that out was that too much they arrive at nick's mom and stepdad's house and they had no idea that these two had just murdered Dee Dee. They said that Nick and Gypsy seemed totally normal. I think they were under the impression that Gypsy was homeless, and that's why she was moving up with them. At one point, something arrived in the mail for Nick. They didn't think anything of it.

It was the murder weapon. Yes. It was the knife. They had mailed it to Wisconsin. What a fucking weird choice, right? I agree. Super weird. Super weird. I mean, you're getting on a Greyhound bus.

You could drop that thing anywhere. Or if you're going to mail it, why don't you just mail it somewhere else in the world? Yeah. Mail it to yourself? It's fucking weird. I don't think these two were super bright. Somewhere else in the world. Yeah. Mail it to yourself? It's fucking weird. I don't think these two were super bright.

So, of course, they were caught a few days later. And I think the reason they were caught was Gypsy had talked to one of her friends about Nick. She was all excited, but I think the friend was still under the impression that Gypsy was being taken advantage of. And so when this happened to Didi, the friend passed the information along to the police and that's how they were able to get caught so quickly. I feel a lot better that you're nodding to this because I didn't write any of this down. No, I think that's absolutely correct. So as time passed, the defense and the prosecution are starting to get a clearer picture of what went on in this very strange story. Yeah. They recognized that this was definitely premeditated murder, but that Gypsy was a victim too. A big victim.

Yes. They'd taken the death penalty off the table, but could even more be taken off the table. Could she walk free? That's what some people wanted. Yeah. They thought Gypsy was 100% a victim, but other people were like, hey, hey, hey, her mom was a master manipulator. What if Gypsy is one too? What if she is playing us right now to some degree? At any rate, the defense is mounting their case. One good element of her defense was that she had trouble distinguishing between what was real and what was fake because of her insane childhood. Yeah. She'd been lied to her entire life.

So maybe she didn't fully understand what she was doing. Maybe she didn't fully understand that her mom was going to die that night. You know, that was kind of the argument. Gypsy's lawyer said she basically had no idea what normal really is because she grew up in an alternative reality. Meanwhile, a lot of Gypsy's family members were like, she should be set free. Her childhood was punishment enough.

So she shows up in court again. What do you think about that? I completely agree. I completely agree too. I think she should be set free. I do too. To me, that's self-defense. Yeah. Yep. Wow. I thought we would disagree on this. Yeah yeah i think she was the victim of abuse that most people could not imagine i completely agree different than your typical child abuse yes i mean that she will live with the ramifications of for the rest of her life. Yeah. Yeah. We'll talk more on this.

Yeah. But yeah, I completely agree. I think she should be set free. So she shows up in court again, and this time her charge is reduced. After looking at all the mitigating circumstances and working with the defense, she was charged with second-degree murder, and she pled guilty.

She was sentenced to 10 years in prison, which I think it's too much. It's wrong. I think it's wrong. Yeah. I mean, I think that this could be an unpopular opinion, but I,

I think it's way too much. I'm, I'm totally with you. I think what she needs is... Counseling? Yes. A shit ton of counseling? A shit ton of counseling. Yeah.

That's what she needs. Yeah. Yeah, I can't believe that she has to do jail time for this. I agree. I was shocked that she got jail time. And, I mean, obviously, that's what she agreed to she felt like you know it could go it could go wrong i know but i think if she would have gone to trial i know i don't think a jury would have found her guilty i don't think so either yeah but she wasn't

i mean she was 10 years is so much less than what she was facing so she wasn't willing to risk it yeah yeah and the other thing is she has said 10 years in prison is better than 10 years with her mom. Yeah. And the other thing her lawyer said was in that first year that she was in prison, you know, just kind of waiting to see what the sentence would be. She gained 15 pounds. Mm-hmm. He was like, most of my clients in jail, they lose weight. Yeah. Because of the stress weight because of the stress.

Cause of the food. She was able to eat for the first time without a feeding tube. And she was off all those terrible medications that she didn't need. So she, and she matured. Like when you see video, like she matured. I mean like crazy.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's unreal. I mean, she, I actually think that if she had been allowed to go to school, she would be considered maybe gifted. Yeah. She taught herself how to read using the Harry Potter books. Yeah.

And she was taken out of school by her mom at like second grade. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's ridiculous. It is. It's crazy. The other thing is they showed home videos in the documentary. And one of them was of her as an infant.

I think she was like a year old. And her mom's asking her, can you point to your head? Show me your fingers. And she was doing all that stuff at a year old. Yeah. And this was supposedly someone who later as an adult had the mental capacity of a seven-year-old. Right, exactly.

No, I think she was actually very intelligent. Yeah. Anyway. So the prosecutor said, by amending to murder in the second degree, we were able to hold Gypsy Blanchard accountable for the murder, which was not justified or excusable, but yet account for those mitigating circumstances.

Gosh, I have a problem with that because... Okay. This is probably bad for me to say, but what was the alternative? How does she get out of that situation alternatively? Exactly. She couldn't run away. No. I don't know.

I mean, if she hadn't killed her mom, she never would have gotten out of there. I kind of believe that. I kind of believe that. I mean, short of you change your name, you go into hiding for the rest of your life. But even then, I don't know. Like, how would you do that? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

It was funny. Like, so Norman watched the documentary with me. Yeah. And he was like, well, you know, there has to be some punishment. So he was more okay with it. I just feel like, I don't know. I think some things don't necessarily have to be punished. Yeah.

Because this is such a crazy, unusual case. Absolutely. I don't think that it really does set a terrible precedent. No. No. I don't think that it really does set a terrible precedent. No. No. I don't either. It's not like it's not like her serving these 10 years in prison is teaching her some great lesson. No.

I mean what she it's she she's not claiming that she thought I mean, what she it's she. She's not claiming that she thought it was good to kill her mom. That's not she's not not her claim at all. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think that. A punishment is inflicted to teach a lesson. I don't think that she had any lesson to learn here. Yeah.

I don't know. Yeah, I don't feel good about it. I don't feel good about it at all. Gypsy's attorney did feel good about it. He said it was the right thing for Gypsy and the right thing for the state of Missouri. Mm-hmm. Like I said, Gypsy's dad fully blames himself for what happened he really hoped that she would get

less time but he understood that it was a big gamble because she could have gotten life in prison absolutely but like i said uh gypsy appears happy she'll be eligible for parole in 2024 when she'll be 32 years old which is super young and hot. Super hot, super young. Lots of life ahead of her. So the end of the documentary says that Nick is set to face trial in the spring of 2017.

Have you kept up with him? Yeah. Okay, yeah. So I was like, hmm, wonder what happened. He was obviously still charged with first-degree murder, but his trial still hasn't happened. It's been delayed, and he made headlines in March of this year when he told Judge David Jones that his public defender wasn't doing a good job

and that he'd called him a pretender. He was like, my attorney hasn't given me all the discovery in my case. I want a new attorney. And the judge was like, it kind of reminds me of the Denver Finale case. The judge was like, no, I can't do that. And Nick questioned how well the judge knew Missouri law.

Oh my God. can't do that yeah and nick questioned how well the judge knew missouri law and he was like no in fact you can appoint me a new attorney so the judge turns to the other attorneys in the courtroom the defense and the prosecutor and he's like fine yeah hey guys are you aware of anything in missouri law that would allow me to give this guy a new attorney? And they're both like, nope. Judge Jones was like, look dude, you have two options. You can hire a new attorney for yourself or you can see if another attorney will represent you pro bono. Yeah.

But I can't give you another. This is like a much tamer version of the Denver. If you're enjoying this exchange, but you want to kick it up a notch, check out our episode about Denver Fentanyl, Alan. He's like, but I can't just give you a new public defender. You need to work with your current attorney, Dwayne Perry. So I'm going to read you a quote. He said, you need to work with Mr. Perry. He will work tirelessly to represent you. You need to trust him is what I'm trying to say. And then the judge was like, by the way, I know you were on an episode of 2020. You did an interview for that show. You really need to stop doing interviews. You're not helping yourself, yeah. Which is true. Like, shut up. Yeah.

Stop talking. His trial is now set for November. And that's the story of the murder of Dede Blanchard. Was there anything I missed? I don't think so. Okay. No, I think you did a great job. Thanks, man.

What do you think should happen with Nick? I wish I would have done more reading about him because I know that I believe he has a low IQ. Yeah, he's on the autism spectrum. He has Asperger's. So I think that needs to be taken into consideration. I absolutely agree. For sure. And yeah, I mean, he seems pretty dangerous to me.

Yeah. Don't you think that there was probably some level of manipulation against him, though, by Gypsy? To get what she wanted? Imagine that she has spent her whole life secluded with one person who is a master manipulator. I would wager that she manipulated him without even knowing that's what she was doing. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I think it all depends on how much I want to believe that Gypsy is manipulative.

Yeah. Because if I go down that rabbit hole, then I'm like, well, maybe it is a good thing she's doing some prison time. Like, maybe she is kind of dangerous. Yeah.'s gonna be just like her mom an an unconscious thing really it's just ingrained in her she spent every minute of her life with someone who was manipulating every person around her 24-7, including Gypsy. Yeah. You pick up on that behavior. Yeah, I don't know what to look for for men.

And I think there's something about, like, even if you are manipulated to go and stab someone today it's like maybe if you can be talked into that maybe you do need to be put away for a while and you are kind of scary yeah yeah I can see that too how much time do you think you should I have no idea I honestly don't know we should do his trial yeah you should do his trial next time next time it hasn't even happened yet november's not too far off no that yeah that's a it's a crazy case uh let me refill my iced tea got it is it ice tea or iced tea? There's a D. Okay. Are you ready?

To hear a crazy case from China? Can you please say it like Donald Trump? China. No. China. Have you heard him say China? Yeah, it sounds like Trump? No. China. No. China. Have you heard him say China? Yeah, it sounds like the last part of vagina. Yes.

One time my coworker sent me a clip, and this was obviously before Norman was my only coworker. I realize how weird that sounds. He sent me a clip that was just like three minutes of just Donald Trump saying China. It's very disturbing. Yeah. It sounds a lot like vagina. Penny onto the next, Kristen. Okay, so I need to start out with a couple of disclaimers here.

Okay. The first is that this takes place in fucking China and I don't know how to say shit in China. So I'm very sorry for the pronunciations of the cities that I'm going to have to say. Not literally shit in Chinese, Kristen. I do not know how to pronounce Chinese words is what I'm saying. Why didn't you learn Chinese for the podcast?

Okay, let me tell you that I actually did watch YouTube videos on how to pronounce certain words in this. So I did my best. That's a gold star for you. You know I wouldn't have done that. I would have been like, here we go. Okay, my second disclaimer is that, again, because this happened in China, the articles that I used to source this episode are largely translated from Chinese. So some of the details are a little bit fuzzy um they vary a little bit from article to article but I went with what was most consistent so are you trying to tell us that this is gonna

suck no I do think it's an interesting case but those are my disclaimers okay okay good on November 29th hold on nope I gotta. I got to pause. I got to full screen this. There was distractions happening. I got to increase the font size. I got it. No. Yeah, I just have hardcore porn. Well, this isn't a public place, so you're good.

Okay. November 29th, 1995. Four people were found dead in a hostel in Huzhou, a picturesque city on the yangtze delta in the northern part of the zhejiang province in china huzao is famous for its silk and is touted as one of the birthplaces of silk cultivation a discovery of silk and silk ribbon by archaeologists in the suburbs suburbs of huzao in 1958 was determined to be some 4700 years old whoa now this has absolutely nothing to do with this case i just said it was interesting 4700 years old that is so cool is Is that not nuts? Do you remember learning about silk in sixth grade? Oh, yeah.

Okay. Just so you guys know, and this is totally relevant to the podcast, we had a great sixth grade teacher. We did have a great sixth grade teacher. She taught us all about world history. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. To this day, I fucking love Egypt. I love it.

Anytime we're in a museum and there's Egyptian shit, I've got to go. And it's all because of Mrs. Dupree. That's right. Anyway. She was an excellent teacher. Yeah. Did the Chinese articles cite her? Yeah.

Good. Back to the hostel, Kristen. Back to the murder. Among the dead were the couple who owned the guest house, as it was commonly called, their 13-year-old grandson, and a guest. All had been bludgeoned to death, and while the scene was gruesome, there wasn't a ton of evidence. The guest house didn't have logs or any personal information on the guests,

and there were no security cameras or closed-circuit TVs on or around the property. With police lacking forensic technology at the time, they really only had one thing to go on. Guesthouse employees recalled two men checking in on the night of the killings. And they recalled that the men spoke with heavy Anhui accents. Great.

That should narrow things down, right? Yeah. Not so much. Anhui is the province just to the northwest of Zhejiang, and it has a population of approximately 62 million. Oh! For reference, that would be like someone saying, oh, the suspect had a Boston accent.

And then Boston being a hundred times more populated than it currently is. So it's basically no fucking help at all. Like the suspect was wearing a t-shirt. He was kind of tall but not really.

So it did narrow it down from the overall population of 1.4 billion but it just wasn't enough officers started looking into the mystery men but they just kept coming up empty they couldn't find anything that linked any of the victims to suspects and the victims weren't linked to each other in any way other than the hostel okay so they had to be thinking that this was just a random horrible crime right absolutely okay yeah one of the investigators in the case said it was very difficult for us to follow the vine to find the melon which i just really like that's great yes um regardless authorities continued to follow the vine in search of melon they filled stacks upon

stacks of notebooks with possible suspects and leads but nothing really panned out the case went cold and the years passed and passed and passed 22 years went by. Oh, my God. Then, in June of 2017, authorities decided, with all the advancements in DNA technology, to take another look at the case. Hell, yeah. In a review of the evidence taken from the scene, investigators found a cigarette butt. One article that I read about this said that they returned to the scene and found a cigarette butt but surely that is not correct you never know they popped back over wait we're seeing a whole bunch of people here maybe they all returned to the scene of the crime all new stuff so they they find this cigarette butt in the evidence that was originally taken from the scene and they send it off to the lab and they're able to extract trace dna from it amazing so armed with this crucial dna evidence and those stacks of notebooks that they filled with suspects police traveled

across 15 chinese provinces and compared the evidence to more than 60,000 suspects over a period of two months. Oh, my God. Wait, say that one more time. I'm sorry. So they traveled across 15 Chinese provinces and compared the evidence to more than 60,000 suspects over a period of two months. Whoa. That's nuts to me. Yes.

I mean, that's such a small percentage of the population. Yeah. You're talking about 1.4 billion people in China. But that's a ton of people to be like comparing evidence to in two months. But does that mean they're just like they've got the DNA profile, they're running it through a database? I don't really know. I would hope so. They were looking.

I know that they were looking at the DNA profile and then also like fingerprints and shit like that were left behind. I assume they're running it through a database. Yeah. But they're having to travel to all. They don't have like a nationalized database. It sounds like they're having to travel to all of these provinces to do it. Then in August of 2017, they make a breakthrough. august of 2017 they make a breakthrough they were informed that the dna was matched with a clan based in the anhui province okay so let's talk about a scary word in china it's not okay let's

talk about what a clan is for a second clans or chinese kin as they're also known are groups of chinese people with a common surname sharing a common ancestor and typically an ancestral home. They're typically linked on the male side of the family, and their ties are often reinforced by a common spoken Chinese dialect, sometimes so strong that it is unintelligible to the people outside of their village. Oh my God, it must have been so hard to be going around interviewing people. Seriously, yes. This is crazy, yes.

So a clan is basically a family, but it's more than a family, yes. It's like when you have your family reunion and you all wear the matching t-shirt and the matching language. Yes, and their matching language. So this DNA clan match is similar to the familial DNA matches that have been in the

news so much lately like with the golden state killer and the grim sleeper those cases so it's very similar to that um this clan match narrowed things down a lot it gave them a province it gave them a village within that province all right and it gave them a village within that province. All right. And it gave them a surname. Okay. With that knowledge, investigators headed to Nanling, Anhui, China in search of a man named Liu. Okay. Huzhou police, working with local authorities, quickly honed in on a suspect.

Liu Yangbiao. On August 8th, plainclothes officers convinced Liu to provide his saliva for DNA testing after telling him they were researching local residents' family trees. Two days later, a lab test confirmed that Liu's DNA was a match to the traced DNA evidence on the cigarette. Liu sounds kind of dumb. And then authorities realized the clues may have been right in front of them all along. Because Liu Yongbiao was an award-winning mystery writer. No! Yes! Oh my god! was an award-winning mystery writer. No!

Yes! Oh my God! Born in 1964, Liu Yongbiao grew up in the countryside of Anhui. He became a writer after he failed to secure college admission. So I want to go like on a small tangent here on college admission. So in China, anyone wishing to seek higher education must take the National Higher Education Entrance Examination, commonly known as the Gaokiao. It is typically taken by students in their last year of high school, but there's no age restriction on the test the test lasts nine hours over a period of two days and it can cover all kinds of shit including chinese math foreign language um

english used to be the foreign language requirement but now there's several that they can choose from um history politics chemistry, and biology, depending on the student's intended area of study. Wow. It's a huge fucking exam, and it's a big ass deal. At the time that Liao would have taken this exam, acceptance rates were around 5%. Oh my gosh. With approximately 5.7 million people taking it a year, that meant only about 285,000 people were accepted into university. Though acceptance rates have improved in current day, they are still well below the worldwide university acceptance average.

So I say all of this to say that just because he wasn't accepted into university doesn't mean that he was a dummy. Okay, because when you said he became a writer because he couldn't get into college i'm bringing my american stuff to that like oh god yeah um so he wasn't dumb and while i couldn't find a ton about his early life because every article about him is in fucking chinese anhui is one of the poorest provinces in China. And it looks like Liao grew up fairly modestly without much privilege. So Liao becomes a writer and he has his first work published in a literary magazine in 1985. But his literary breakthrough wouldn't come until 2005 when his novel, A film, was published by Writers Publishing House, which is China's first major national book publisher.

The novel brought Liao some pretty significant notoriety as well as several awards and accolades. Oh my God. He would go on to write a handful of other novels, including a historical romance in 2014 that was later adapted to a 50-episode TV show. Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay, you know what? I'm going to take back what I said about him being dumb earlier about the whole police thing. Because I bet the police were like, oh, you know, you're this famous writer.

We want to trace your, you know, kind of like doing a, massaging his ego. Right. He may have thought that. That may be what they did. I'll get into it. Okay. A little bit. So he, you know, he grew up in this countryside.

He's, looks like he's grew up pretty poor. And now he's having all of this success in writing. And he's looks like he's grew up pretty poor and now he's having all of this success in writing and he's winning awards and then he get in 2013 he's admitted to the communist party-led china writers association which is a super prestigious writing organization he became one of just 13 members from the anhui province whoa so it's it was a huge deal. Oh my God, this is crazy. Yes. When he wasn't writing, Liao ran a literature course

and tutored students. Though he hadn't gone to university, he'd studied at the Luxon Literature Institute in Beijing. So he had educated himself. He had just had to wait to later in life to do it. Right, right.

His students said he never spoke about his personal life and described him as a very serious person, stating that he rarely smiled and often criticized his students. Though he never raised his voice, he always wore his disappointment on his face, said one student. said one student. So it seemed that for all the fame and accolades that Leo had earned, no one really knew of his past. But as I mentioned earlier, there were clues. One article I read said that his books had gruesome scenes later believed to be inspired by the memories of the murders. Yeah.

But as I mentioned, his books are in chinese so that's something i wasn't able to confirm outside of that one source but what i can tell you for sure is that in 2010 he published his most popular book the guilty secret which is a pretty fucking sketch title to start with yeah but this book is about a beautiful author who gets away with a string of murders oh my god there may also be something about a farmer in there i'm not really sure again the translation stuff was a little difficult so super fucking sketch knowing what we know now. Yes. Yes. Okay. So now it's August 11th, 2017. Three days have gone by since they've gotten that saliva sample from him to run his DNA. In the early morning hours, authorities descend on the home of Liu Yangbiao to take him into custody.

When they arrived, he said, I've been waiting for you here all this time. Oh, my God. And he was arrested without incident. As he was being taken into custody, he handed police a single-page typed letter to give to his wife. It read in part, These past 20 years I've been waiting for this day, and today there is finally an ending. i can finally be free from the torment

i've endured for so long oh shut up shut up i do hate that i knew you would hate that the self-pitying murderer no nope nope nope um it wasn't long before leo told investigators everything he and an accomplice wong mooming had been at the guest house that night they'd both been broke and when another lodger was placed in the room with them they thought he looked wealthy so they'd attempted to rob him but he discovered them trying to do so so they'd killed him so again this is one of the things that's unclear like either he was out of the room and they were like going through his stuff and came in or he was asleep and yeah he woke up okay anyway they ended up killing him then in an attempt to completely cover their tracks in that murder they'd killed the elderly

hostel owners and their grandson oh my god they bludgeoned them all to death with clubs and hammers while restraining them with rope oh yeah terrible he told authorities that for years he'd been plagued by nightmares of the gruesome scene and had long wanted to confess but he just just couldn't. Oh, I just couldn't. Because I was scared, and I would rather be a famous author, and I'd rather be free. So he'd used his writing as an outlet. He said parts of his novels had been inspired by the memories of that night, but that he'd never done anything as disrespectful as basing a book

or a character off of those horrible events. That would be terrible. That would be the worst thing. You're going to hate this next thing he says. Oh my God, no. Leo told authorities that the memories he'd been haunted with were a fate worse than dying. Oh. And said he'd long yearned for his arrest

i am so mad i don't know what to do with my hands what do you think about that, Kristen? I think that's bullshit. And it's worse than bullshit because it's self-pitying. Oh, it's worse than death. I'm the victim. It's a fate worse than death. Yeah.

Kristen. Then they should put him to death and see how he feels as he's... Anyway. Anyway, Liu also told authorities that when the two men came asking for DNA on the pretense of doing family tree research. Oh, I knew what it was about. And I did it because he felt sure they were investigating him. No, he didn't. Well, maybe he did because he sent his wife and daughter away after the men left and he called his accomplice Wong and told them it was time to face their fate. Okay. You know what? I think what this comes down to,

because initially when I said he didn't know what was going on, I said he was dumb. Yeah. And now that I think he's a super douche, I don't want to say that he was smart enough to know what was going on, but you're right. He knew what was going on. Sure enough, two days later, he was arrested. And though it is unclear in the articles if he gave Wong up to authorities, I would say that he must have because just hours later, Wong was arrested at his home in Shanghai. because just hours later, Wong was arrested at his home in Shanghai. Upon his arrest, Liu told police that the details of the crime were so cruel that he should die 100 times for what he'd done. And on July 30th, 2018, it's a fresh one. Liu and Wong would find themselves in the intermediate people's court of huzao

to determine if a judge thought they deserved just that since neither liao or wong disputed their charges the court found them guilty of robbery and homicide at the first instance which i assume is the equivalent of in the first yeah probably it's probably even supposed to be in the first degree and which I assume is the equivalent of in the first degree. Yeah, probably. It's probably even supposed to be in the first degree and it's just a shitty translation. Yeah. The court said, though both suspects had admitted their charges, their crimes were especially serious and brought significant consequences to society. Therefore, almost 23 years after their crimes, the court sentenced them to death no word on if either plans to appeal this sentence because china's like texas right on oh oh yeah and i i think that the

appeal process is really quick too i believe that they'll be put to death soon okay if they don't appeal and even if they do appeal i don't think it stretches out nearly. Right. Like it does in the United States. Yeah. So I want to finish up just by going back for one second and talking about motive. Okay.

Liu and Wong initially set out to rob the other larger, the other lodger because he looked wealthy and he, they ended up murdering four people to cover it up when they were caught. In the end, how much were those lives worth? Probably nothing because the guy was staying at a hostel. So he, there's, I'm sorry, but I feel like really wealthy people don't stay at hostels. Yeah. Liao told authorities that all they found were a watch, a ring, and about 10 yuan,

which is the equivalent of about a dollar 44 adjusted for inflation oh you didn't adjust for inflation i actually it i actually did the adjust the conversion in today's money so it maybe it was worth a different amount back then but today it'd be worth a really like to get to the bottom of this. You didn't do any kind of disclaimer on this at the top of the episode. So that was a pretty short case, but I thought it was pretty interesting. That was good. I thought you would like it because it was a writer.

Yeah. So I'm definitely anti-death penalty. I hate that that's going to happen. Yeah. But what? What a giant tool. No, he's a victim. Kristen, of this horrible thing that he had to do.

Right. I feel really bad for him. And I'll probably cry tonight thinking about him. So I do want to give a shout out here at the end. I had never heard of this before but i follow this account on instagram called um this day in crime which is like each word is is separated with an underscore so like this underscore day underscore in underscore crime i don't get it can you say it again shut But on August 11th, I guess it was, they posted this case as like on this day in crime last year he was arrested. That is crazy.

Yeah. That was a really good one. And so then I looked it up. And again, I'm sorry it was kind of short, but I thought it was really interesting. Last week we did a two-hour episode. I think we're good. And we've gone international, more than Canada. Canada doesn't really count as international.

It's kind of like our hat. That is such an arrogant American way of viewing it. I'm just kidding. Canada's like, we think of you as our toilet. Yeah, I mean, I feel i mean i don't feel it right yeah that was awesome oh so my mother was garage sailing as she often does and she bought you a book for 50 cents i am so excited about it i like to think of it as we have an investor in the podcast. Because I will get, I mean, so many episodes out of this thing.

It is the 100 most infamous criminals. And there's my buddy Charlie right on the cover. Charles Manson up top on the cover. I thought it was funny because my mom was like, I bought you a book for the podcast. And then she was like, it's really rough. Maybe it's for Brandy. And I took one look. I've had it on my coffee table for like a week.

And every time I walk by it, I get the creeps. I have been very excited for you to come over and take this thing from me we got charles manson yes jeffrey dahmer ted bundy bonnie and clyde son of sam and some gangster i don't know who that guy is um my dad said that that picture oh shit who is that um it's shit the most famous gangster what's what's his name um al capone yes al capone thank you but my dad was like he looks like elton john in that picture where's his scar i can't see a scar on his face it's not a great shot yeah i hate to i hate to shit on the 50 cent book but guys it just i'm just saying uh be looking forward to some future episodes because i'm gonna get some ideas out of that thing for sure. We're going to get that 50 cents worth. That's right.

I'm going to get my 50 cents out of that thing. Your mom's 50 cents out of it. I didn't spend it. Update, has your mom taken you out for ice cream yet? No, she hasn't even mentioned it. Mine hasn't mentioned it either. Now we know who's not listening. You know what I think's going to happen?

My parents' next little RV trip. Yeah. I know they download episodes and they listen to them in the car. So I think I will get a panicked phone call from my mom. Oh, hi, I just listened to the, oh, I got a little behind on those episodes. As long as I get ice cream, I'm fine. That's right. Thank you to everybody who helped us get future ice cream from our moms by leaving us ratings and reviews.

If you haven't yet left us one, head on over to iTunes. Even if you don't listen to us there, it's really great for us. It's a great tool for us. So if you can head over to iTunesunes leave us a rating leave us a review that would be amazing and then find us on same for stitcher stitcher yeah you can leave so here this is kind of a pain in the ass thing i'm very sorry but on stitcher you can only leave a review on their website you can't do it through the app so i apologize for being you know we're being pains in the asses right now asking you to do that but leave us a review over there too we're on facebook we're on twitter we're on instagram

that's it and uh join us on all those places and then join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics podcast adjourned and now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the fabulous HBO documentary Mommy Dead and Dearest, the News Leader and Ozark's First. And I got my info from China Daily, The Daily Mail, The South China Morning Post, and The Sixth Tone.

For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.