Let's Go To Court! - 37: The Dangers of Letting Extended Family Live With You & the Kidnapping of Quinn Gray

Episode Date: October 10, 2018

Here’s a tip: When a member of your spouse’s family asks to stay with you, just say no. That’s the lesson Brandi took from the murder of millionaire Jacques Mossler. When his younger, “toothpaste model” wife, Candy, suggested they let her nephew Melvin move into their sprawling Houston home, Jacques said sure. But over time, Candy and her nephew got close. Too close. Then Kristin tells us about the bizarre kidnapping of stay-at-home-mom Quinn Gray. Her kidnapping panicked and perplexed her husband, Reid Gray. Reid was wealthy. Super wealthy. But the ransom note indicated that the kidnappers only wanted $50,000. Why so little? And why did the kidnappers let Quinn make so many phone calls? As Quinn’s kidnapping dragged on, the case got more and more strange. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Ransom” episode of Dateline “Withhold of adjudication: What everyone needs to know,” Florida Bar Association “Bizarre saga of fake kidnapping of Quinn Hanna Gray reaches quiet end in court,” Jacksonville.com “Ponte Vedra woman who faked kidnapping accused of violating probation,” Jacksonville.com “Nancy Grace Investigates: The Quinn Gray Tapes Part 2,” CNN.com In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “A Million Dollar Murder” by David Krajicek, Crime Library “Lust and Death on Key Biscayne” by Matt Schudel, Sun Sentinel “Melvin Powers is Dead at 68” by Douglas Martin, The New York Times

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll talk about the kidnapping of Quinn Gray. And I'll be talking about the dangers of letting extended family members move in with you.

Brandi? Yes, Kristen? I am loving this series you're doing. See? These are the things that people need to know about, I feel like. These are dangers that anybody could just wander into and wouldn't even see it coming. Now they will, thanks to this podcast. Changing lives here, Kristen.

How many lives do you think you've saved with this series so far? I mean, easily two. Don't be modest. At least two people have been like, you know what, I'm not going to join the PTA. That's right. So my sister, Kim, who I talked about on the PTA episode, she, like I mentioned, she's the president of my niece's school's PTA.

And she listened to that episode and then she called me and she was like, oh my God, I'm never leaving my car doors unlocked again. Hell yeah. Someone will for sure plant drugs in my car. I have for sure pissed somebody off. I think for fun, you should snip some basil leaves and just put them in a Ziploc bag and stick them in her car. Just for fun.

Teach her to be involved in anything. That's right. You know, I've been thinking about a question I wanted to ask you. Okay. And, you know, I was just wondering if you knew of anywhere that I could get, like, a really cool gaming T-shirt. Ooh. For like, I'm just, here's the problem is I only want to spend about $10. And I'm assuming you want to spend a little more for shipping. Yeah, of course. Plus shipping and handling, of course. Excellent. Brandi, you've come to the right place. Right now on GamingHistorian.com, we are selling the classic logo t-shirt and the retro style t-shirt for just $10.

Are you telling me that I can get those two for $20? That's exactly what I'm telling you. I am going to head on over to TheGamingHistorian.com right now and order up my two t-shirts. Can I save the shipping if I just go to your basement and get them? How dare you? Wouldn't it be funny if somebody robbed the place, but they only stole shirts? They just left $10. You come home and somebody has clearly broken in,

but there's one shirt missing and $10 is laying there. I feel like I'd be like, okay. Um, but seriously, folks, limited time only t-shirts on sale, $10 a piece plus shipping topless.

No more. Are you excited about my drink now? Hi, everybody. $10 a piece plus shipping. Topless no more. Topless no more. Are you excited about my drink now? Hi. Everybody, I brought a drink. I set my drink down on the table and I was stirring it. And Brandy looked very alarmed. It had, so it is, it's a glass with ice and water in it, clearly.

And then it had some kind of powder at the bottom. naturally i assumed that it was metamucil because kristen drinks weird shit all the time you thought i was setting myself up myself up for an explosion in the middle of the podcast hey you go to the bathroom every time i don't know what you do up there maybe you're the world's fastest colon blower it would be an honor to take first place in that competition i was delighted to learn that it's actually just propel propel propel i thought you said propel what's the difference well you put the emphasis on the wrong syllable

maybe it's propel because it propels things through your colon but it's called propel because it let's find out faster in life is that what the yeah that's why i'm so speedy and great everywhere i go all right i thought it was all the meth are you ready i am ready to learn about some dangers very ready all right hold on let me full screen this shit so i don't get distracted zoom in on my old lady setting okay i actually have my glasses on today so i don't yeah why why don't you wear your glasses all the time um so i uh you seem like you're about to lie no it's a really low prescription i really only need them under certain circumstances and one of those circumstances is

driving in the rain and it is raining today so Very good. Okay. Yes. And I just want to look super cute for you. You do look really cute in your glasses. Thank you. So much better than usual. Than usual. Glasses brandy is way better than regular brandy. Yeah, it's like the opposite of all those movies where the girl takes off the glasses

and all of a sudden we realize she's hot. Yeah, yeah. Now I know. you've been this hot all along how did i not know okay so i just want to start out by giving a shout out um the majority of this information comes from an article by david kradicek for crime library no idea if that's how he pronounces his last name. It's a weird spelling, but that's what I'm going with. K-R-A-J-I-C-E-K. You even struggled just spelling it. Yeah, I know.

Two letters with dots on top of them next to each other. That's Rojo. I'll be honest, I can hardly concentrate because before we started recording, I made a joke laughed at my own joke and spilled water all over my pants no I'm going to be tough it's just like I've peed myself and now I'm going to listen to a story who hasn't done that before

it was 4.45am on June 29th 1964 which is the day after my mom was born she was one day old this time excellent this is relevant to the story absolutely okay it's gonna be it's gonna be really important later on okay everybody make a note yes it's it's not going to matter at all. So Dr. John Handworker, which I just have to tell you, when I was researching this, I laughed for like 10 minutes when I read that guy's name because I read it as Dr. John Handjerker. I was super disappointed to find out it was Handworker i don't get it why is that funny brandy again kristin i think we've touched on this before i'm not here to tell you about these things that's not my role in your life that's the role of like a school nurse

which your mom used to be so if you have, please take all of these questions to your mom. My mom, did I tell you? I'm sure I told you. She used to have me and Kyla watch the sex ed videos with her at home. Oh, gosh. Under the guise of like, I just want to figure out. What the kids are going to ask? No, what's the best thing to show?

Like, which video do you girls prefer really it was just like ew okay that's weird and i'm sorry that you had to sit through that kristen thank you i feel sorry it really just sheds a lot of light on who you are as a person now just excessive exposure to sex and videos this explains why i'm so in touch with my changing body and all those feelings and urges okay so it's it's 4 45 a.m dr hand worker is asleep at home when he's awoken by his phone ringing. It's his answering service, and they're calling to let him know that there was a medical emergency at the home of his millionaire neighbor.

Dr. Handwerker quickly dresses and then rushes to the Key Biscayne, Florida, home of 69-year-old Jacques Mosler. So Key Biscayne, Florida, this is kind of an upscale island community off the coast of Miami in Florida. Yeah, I've been there. Yeah, no, no. Jacques Mosler lives in like, in a in a condo there. But it's one of the like nicest complexes on the island. Okay. one of the nicest complexes on the island. Sure. Okay. So Dr. Handwerker gets there,

and he discovers that Jacques hadn't so much had a medical emergency. Rather, he'd been brutally murdered. Where did he get this call from? So it was like an answering service. So this was in 1964, as I said. So this was like pre-9-1-1, I believe. So like if somebody has an emergency, they call emergency services. And then that call is forwarded to, I don't know, on-call doctors.

I don't really know exactly how it worked. But he's a doctor. I think he's maybe Jock Mossler's personal doctor. OK. So he comes to the scene. Gotcha. He finds no pulse, no heartbeat, but really that was a formality because it was clear, even to the untrained eye, that Jacques Mosler was dead. His chest had been nearly shredded by stab wounds. Oh.

Upon closer examination, the Dade County medical examiner discovered that jock mossler had been hit over the head with two heavy objects one was believed to be a large coke bottle and the other was a decorative swan both were made of glass and the broken glass from both was found around the apartment near the body just in the general vicinity and then he had also been stabbed 39 times in the chest. The assailant had been aiming for the man's heart, and more than a few of the jabs had met their target. Any number of the stab wounds could have been fatal. Jacques had not gone down without a fight, though. He had several defensive wounds on his arms and hands.

But who had he been fighting? As it turned out, there was quite a list of people with a grudge against Mosler because he had made his fortune as what some would describe as a legal loan shark and repo man. Ew. So Jacques Mosler had started his first loan business. And I say loan in air quotes there, which I realize does not come across on a podcast. When he was just 13 years old. That year, he left school to find work to help support his mother after the death of his father. He took a job selling newspapers on the streets of Chicago.

Then he lent his earnings to neighborhood kids. And with the exorbitant interest rates he charged them, his earnings grew and grew. Yes. So like kids who didn't have money to buy candy or whatever, he'd be like, all right, I'll pay you this. But then when you get your allowance, you pay me back double. Like that's. Oh, yes. That's messed up.

At 13 years old, he's doing this. Oh, that's messed up. At 13 years old, he's doing this. So as Mosler got older, so grew his business savvy. And he knew there was one industry growing at an exponential rate, and there was real money to be made there. That was the auto industry. When Mosler was born in 1895, there were four automobiles registered in the United States. Five years later, there were 8,000. Oh, my gosh.

By 1910, there were 469,000. And by 1920, when Mosler was 25 years old, there were 9.2 million cars registered in the United States. That's incredible. Nuts, right? To see that amount of growth in 25 years. That's crazy. The mentality in the country at that time was that everyone had to have a car, even if they couldn't afford it.

Right. That meant financing, and often high-risk financing, which meant high interest rates. It was exactly where Jacques Mosler wanted to be. So he took a job as a mechanic to get his foot in the door. Then he worked his way up to salesman, and then to the finance department. There, he learned everything he needed to know about installment loans, and after the Great Depression, he struck out on his own with a string of small financing companies. By the end of World War II,

Mosler had more than 40 banks and insurance firms with holdings in Chicago, Houston, Florida, and New Orleans. He owned more than 40 banks. He owned 40 banks. That, oh my gosh. And these banks were described at their time as being what we would call yes banks now. They would finance to anyone. With just the most insane fees that no one could ever afford to pay back.

Basically, yes. Gross. At the time of his death, Mosler had amassed a fortune of $33 million. I'm sure he had. Which adjusted for inflation. Oh my god. Would be over $268 million today. In his career, his firms had repossessed thousands of automobiles and appliances and foreclosed on an untold number of mortgages. But the investigation following his murder showed that while some might see his business as unsavory, Mossler had conducted his business scrupulously by the book and above board. He hadn't done any tricks. he wasn't pulling one over on anybody

they knew the terms of their loans they just couldn't they just couldn't follow through with them they couldn't meet there there wasn't tiny fine print and tricks that's my understanding straightforward straightforward this money but you're gonna have to pay me back this much money and people because of the mentality i need this i have to you know i have to have to pay me back this much money. And people, because of the mentality, I need this. I have to, you know, I have to have a great car. I have to have new appliances. I have to have this amazing home. I'll pay it. And then they were unable to.

Yeah. He also, in his businesses, he paid for education funds for his employees. He paid for pensions for his employees. So he was a, he was a, a good employer too. So investigators are like, well, it doesn't look like it's from the business

side of his life. So they take a look at the people closest to Jacques. Because stabbing is an intensely intimate way to murder someone. Tell us about it, Brandy. I'm a bit of an expert on stabbings love stabbings because it's just you have to be so close yeah so i mean just the it's the fucking balls it would

take to stab someone i feel like is just alarming yeah i mean and the physical strength it would take too right yeah it it's horrifying because i would think that first stab wound would be just i don't know you would think that you would stop after that but this person was stabbed 39 times that's awful so with the way that he was stabbed and the level of overkill that was displayed here, the investigators immediately after checking out his business happenings were like, this has to be someone with a personal relationship to the victim. Somebody that has a personal vendetta against him. This can't be somebody he didn't know.

So they look into his personal life and jacques had lived two personal lives he married his first wife in the 1920s had four daughters and then divorced in 1947 it was shortly after his divorce that he met candace candy weatherby candy was a divorced toothpaste model and charm school owner. She had beautiful teeth, apparently. Yeah, you would have to. And she was at least 20 years his junior. So Candy constantly lied about her age.

So nobody really knows how old she was. She had two children of her own from her previous marriage and she met Jock in 1948 when she was volunteering for the New Orleans Opera soliciting donations. As the owner of a New Orleans bank, Jock's name came across

Candy's prospective donor list. She met with him and asked him for a $350 donation. He gave her $25. met with him and asked him for a $350 donation. He gave her $25. But at that meeting, apparently sparks flew, and they were married six months later in May of 1948. Whoa.

Yeah. That timeline doesn't work out. So she must have met Jacques. I said she met Jacques in 1948. She must have met him at the end of 1947 thank you for keeping your yourself on absolutely here's how i know this because may is the fifth month of the year so it couldn't be six months later and still be in the same year brandy i'm a genius christian yes that's what we're discovering here today um so they marry

in may and the couple along with their six children moved into a 28 room mansion in houston texas jacques showered his wife with all the luxuries she could imagine he gave her cars jewelry trips the apartment in key biscayne was all that repoed no he bought it with all the money he got from those crazy interest rates okay and a 5700 a month allowance today oh my god adjusted for inflation, that would be $59,000 a month. God, that's crazy. So he couldn't give Candy the one thing she really wanted, which was more children. Which was $6,000 a month. Right.

She's like, can you just, you know, what do you spend that on? Apparently, it was to take care of any needs of anybody in the home so the children whatever but i'm sure she was well i mean yeah you could you could more than take care of it yeah so i i don't have a fucking clue okay they'd buy a lot of tj i have no idea what what $59,000 a month looks like. Well, this is just shocking. She wants more kids and he can't give them to her because in his younger years, Jacques had apparently not been opposed to the occasional extramarital fling. But as his fortune grew, he became increasingly concerned about being

blackmailed by women claiming to be pregnant with his child so after the birth of his four daughters he'd gotten a vasectomy candy was none too pleased about this past decision and it became a point of contention in their marriage rather Rather than just not have affairs, his decision was to... Kristen. Okay. Yeah, he couldn't just not sleep around. He's got a vasectomy, so he could do it without impregnating someone.

God, okay. Great. I would like you to remember at this point chris and this man's been brutally murdered before you call him a super douche i'm not calling him a super douche stabbed 39 times in the heart chest virtually shredded okay okay you're right you're right. So in 1957, while Jacques was in Chicago on business. Hold on. Why not just reverse the vasectomy? I would assume maybe it wasn't as easy at this point as it is now.

Because now it's a very easily reversible surgery. I mean, look, it's, I don't know, 1950 at this point. Yeah. I'm guessing the advances in the medical procedures we've had since then have definitely made that surgery a little easier to reverse. Tell us about the advances in vasectomies. I do not know. Damn it. I did not research them.

I didn't want to talk about your crusty semen again, Kristen. And you call yourself a podcaster. I'll leave the crusty semen talk to you. Okay. True story to everyone out there. I cut a very disgusting joke out of that episode. That you made? That we both made.

Oh, okay. So I made it it you were grossed out then you laughed and then you added on to it and i cut it out so you're welcome everyone we're very classy we are classy ladies this is quite the classy podcast could can you guys believe that there's shit that gets cut out of these episodes that's a real shocker that there's a line yes okay so it's 1957 jacques is in chicago on business and he reads a newspaper article about a war veteran who in a state of psychosis shot and killed his wife an infant child he essentially orphaned his four other children because he was then institutionalized for the

murders jacques was struck by this story he couldn't stop thinking about those four kids so he pulled some strings and he adopted those surviving children whoa the kids one girl and three boys ages six five three and two moved to the mansion in houston cindy got her the more children that she was looking for and things were great she was content she had everything she'd ever wanted. She wanted all those kids all at once? Oh, man. She was thrilled. Beyond thrilled. Okay.

That is really cool that they did that. Yeah. And things were good. For a while. Oh. But in 1961, the big Houston mansion was feeling a little empty as Jacques and Candy's older children had started to grow up and move out. Then Candy got a call from her older sister, Elizabeth Powers.

Her 20-year-old son, Candy's nephew, had gotten himself into some legal trouble in Michigan. And she wanted to know if he could come to Houston and stay with them for a while and try to get his life going on a better path. to know if he could come to Houston and stay with them for a while and try to get his life going on a better path. Candy talked to Jacques and he was like, your family's my family. The more the merrier. Move them on in. We got the space. Melvin Powers, Candy's nephew, may have been 20 years old, but he looked about 35 or 40. He also looked like a fucking Bond villain. One article I read described him as having a striking physical presence at six foot four with the build of a linebacker, which I can get behind. I get that. But it also said that he had movie star good looks with a solid jaw, pouty lips high cheekbones if this is the case then mel was the

least photogenic person on the planet because every picture i saw of him he looked like the guy who played fucking jaws and moonriker i have for you now kristin a visual comparison yes the photo you're about to see has two people in it. Okay. I want you to determine which one is Melvin Powers and which one is the Bond villain. Excellent. Please take a look. Oh, God.

Oh, wow. Okay. So these are... Oh, God. Okay. So these are... Oh, God. So the one on the right is obviously the Bond villain. Obviously, yes. But okay, I can see how... Okay, this guy's just got pockmarks for days. I can see how maybe in the right light he would be considered... The right light is that pitch black i mean if you squint real hard until your head to the left i don't know i mean okay admit this

though striking resemblance yeah right yes for sure for sure all right thank you his appearance All right. Thank you. His appearance is neither here nor there. Really? What's important to know is that Mel Powers moved into the Houston mansion and Jacques set him up with a job at one of his financial firms to get him back on his feet. And things got weird pretty quickly. Jacques Mosler spent most of 1962 ill with a terrible respiratory infection. It was so bad that he traveled to Europe seeking treatment at mineral springs there. And when he returned to the U.S., he stayed mostly at the condo in Key Biscayne, finding the air there cleaner and easier to breathe. This meant that Candy was left by herself at the Houston mansion. And she and her nephew

Mel began to get close. Oh. Real close. What? No. Disgustingly close. No! Are you serious? Mel and Candy became lovers. No.

No. No. So gross. Blood related. Yes. Oh. Candy, who was twice Mel's age, at least, because again, we don't really know her true age. Who cares about that? And his fucking aunt by blood.

Yes. It's not like she was like, his aunt by marriage. Or, you know, it doesn't really count because it's my husband's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. No, this was her fucking sister's son. Who she was supposed to like take under her wing. Oh, gross. She did.

Okay, okay. Stop, stop. That's it. After I just said we were classy. So Candy would visit Mel's room after the children and housekeepers were in bed. Oh my. They would send each other love letters and steal off on secret trysts. But the taboo relationship wouldn't stay secret for long because Mel couldn't keep his fucking mouth shut.

He began bragging to friends and acquaintances that he could get whatever he wanted out of the Moslers because he had candy under his spell. He told them he had a real knack for pleasuring her orally. And in return, she bought him anything and everything he wanted. And the friends and acquaintances... He was bragging to people. The friends and acquaintances were like,

dude, that's fucking disgusting. She's your aunt. Admittedly, the articles didn't actually say that. That's just what I imagined they would say. It has to be what they said. It has to be what they said right

what is he doing bragging about this i uh i don't know so candy and mel's affair was like an open secret around the houston mansion No one talked about it, but everyone knew it was going on. Everyone but Jacques Mosler. Finally, in late spring of 1963, one of the housekeepers tipped him off and he confirmed it by reading Candy's diary.

Jacques immediately went to the authorities to see about pressing charges against Mel. Just Mel? It takes two to... Fuck your aunt. Is that the phrase?

That's exactly how that goes. But they dissuaded him. They urged him to think about the negative publicity that would come from a case like that. So instead, he fired Powers from his firm and kicked him out of the house. But Powers didn't go quietly. How did he feel about his wife?

You know, it didn't say a lot about that in the article. I would think that would be the chief concern. He's really just putting the blame on Mel. Okay. So he fires him. He kicks him out of the house but powers is like he rails against jock mossler and he vowed to return one day this time as master of the mansion ew disgusting poor jock is disgusted by what had been going on in his own home he escaped to europe for a bit and then

when he returned to the states he moved full-time to his residence in key biscayne he was too embarrassed to return to houston where he was sure that everyone knew what his wife had been up to yeah and was still up to yeah so at this point mel had moved out and he got his own apartment but candy was getting over there anytime she had a free moment. God, Candy probably paid for it. I'm sure she did. Which meant that... What? Jacques paid for it.

Yeah. Ugh. Ugh. The relationship between Candy and Jacques at this point was strained, to say the least. But neither were willing to file for divorce. Per the prenup that Candy had signed, if she filed for divorce, she would get only $200,000. Oh. If Jacques filed, she would get 50% of assets a weird prenup right so here's here's my thinking on this and i don't have any this is just my own opinion on this i don't have any facts

to back this up but i'm guessing that jacques was like i'm marrying someone half my age she's for sure gonna be the one to want to leave yeah so so i i this is my promise to her to get her you know yeah no that makes total sense yeah yeah he did not it also makes total sense why he didn't get super mad at candy because what's he gonna do yeah exactly yeah and i'm sure he just did not foresee her banging her nephew. I don't think one sees that coming. I think that if one does see that coming, one shouldn't marry that person. And this has been the Advice Hour with Kristen and Brandi.

That's what the point of these podcasts are for. It took us 37 episodes to get to the point. That's right. This is the point of this whole podcast. This is the whole point.

Neither one of the Moslers were willing to make those kind of financial sacrifices. So they carried on with their separate lives. No. Candy in Houston, Jacques in Florida.

Until the summer of 1964. Not much is known about the status of the Mosler's marriage in the summer of 1964. Was it great? I'm sure it was just great. What's known for sure is that at the end of May, Candy and four of the children went to Key Biscayne, Florida to stay in the family's condo there with Jacques. And by June 29th, Jacques was dead. In fact, Candy had been the one to discover Jacques' body in the living room of the condo that morning. And her teenage daughter Rita was the one who called police.

Deputies who arrived on the scene after the emergency call from Rita would recall that Candy had opened the door and told them coldly, he's in there while pointing to the living room. Wow. They thought that this was oddly unemotional. Considering that his chest was shredded? Shredded, yes. But Dr. Handwerker, the first medical personnel on the scene, attributed this coldness to shock.

Okay. And after all, she'd just come home to find her husband brutally murdered at 4.30 in the morning. What was she doing out? Investigators had that same question. Kristen? Candy told them that she had to go out at approximately 1 o'clock in the morning to mail some letters, Kristen. So she loaded up her four children in the car what were the

letters about i mean i don't have any details on the letters there's such bullshit she loaded up her four children in the car at one o'clock in the morning uh-huh and drove to the dupont plaza hotel where she purchased stamps and sent off several letters I'm just picturing all the moms who are listening to this right now, like just laughing their asses off. Yeah. While they're though mailing these emergency letters. Sure. She was suddenly hit with a migraine, something that she suffered from regularly. And instead of returning home, she went to the hospital with her four children in tow. In the couple of hours that Candy was receiving migraine treatment at the hospital, she received three phone calls to the nurse's station. The calls came from a man who said he was a relative.

Oh. And the nurses would later recall that it was not Jacques Mosler. Hmm. Hmm. So why had Candy taken the children out with her at one o'clock in the morning when they could have easily stayed at the condo with Jacques? Oh, I don't know.

To get them out of the house. And who was calling her at the nurse's station in those early morning hours? Mm-hmm. And if Candy hadn't been home when the murder occurred, who else had a personal vendetta against Jacques big enough to warrant 39 stab wounds? Who could it be, Kristen? Gosh, I just have no idea.

The answers to those questions seem to point to one person, Melvin Powers. Are you shocked i'm sorry guys i just fainted i have to get back up to the microphone i didn't see this coming at all i do think it's dumb though that she didn't just go to the hospital because the letters thing is so stupid yeah yeah a quick search of airline records show that melvin had flown from houston to miami no arriving at seven o'clock the previous night no and then had flown back to houston just hours after Jacques was found dead. Carson, you're just stunned in silence over there. She shook her head a lot, but I mean, you guys can't hear that on a podcast.

I just think, okay, the official new tagline of the podcast. That's right. Which is, I don't mean to tell you how to commit a crime right use cash get in a car i mean put on some space diapers if you really want to kill get your adult space diapers and don't make any stops that's correct both circumstances also houston to florida and it was anyway it was Both circumstantial. That was also Houston to Florida. It was. Anyway. It was.

Both circumstantial and tangible evidence quickly began to pile up against Mel. Jacques' journal was found, and there was an entry that read, If Mel and Candy don't kill me first, I'll have to kill them. Whoa. first i'll have to kill them whoa it turns out that he had started listening to phone calls after he found out about the affair just over like overhearing things and he would make notes of stuff that seemed important and that was one of the notes like what i it didn't go into details just yeah notes about very suspicious about that the relationship was definitely going on yes because candy denied it when he confronted her about it but well sure he was sure that it was going on

and so he's just keeping notes you know of what he overheard and things that he thought might come in handy and that was one of the notes he made oh my gosh then mel's palm print was found on the living room wall of the condo. I'm sure there's an innocent explanation. A white car that was rented in Candy's name was seen leaving the scene of the crime and was found parked at the airport. Oh my. Blood and Mel's fingerprints were found inside. Oh my lord. Just fucking stupid.

Yes. It's like they wanted to get caught. For real. That is so dumb. On July 3rd, the day of Jacques Mosler's funeral, Melvin Powers was arrested for his murder. And Candy hired him the best defense attorney in Texas, Percy Foreman. Once when Foreman was compared to Clarence Darrow, he scoffed and said, I've tried more murder cases in a year than Darrow did in a lifetime.

Okay, shut up, Percy What's-His-Butt. No one knows your name, but we know Clarence Darrow. Everyone knows Clarence Darrow. No one knows your name, but we know Clarence Darrow. Everyone knows Clarence Darrow. Worth noting, Foreman would later go on to defend James Earl Ray. Oh. The man who assassinated Martin Luther King Jr.

Gross. Yeah. Well, fuck that guy. Okay. Foreman required a $200,000 retainer, which adjusted for inflation, is $1.6 million. Oh, wow. So Candy put up her jewelry box

filled with diamonds and baubles given to her as gifts from Jacques as collateral. Essentially, Jacques Mosler paid for the defense of the man accused of his murder. Ugh. That's awful.

Yeah. It's pretty terrible. Over the next several months, investigators uncovered all the sordid details of Mel and Candy's relationship,

and it became public knowledge. The story became a tabloid sensation, and it wasn't long before the public was calling for charges against Candy as well. She had to have been in on it. Yes. She was the one who stood to gain so much from Jacques' death.

And on July 20th, 1965, more than a year after Jacques' murder, Candy was also charged in his murder. Good. She and Mel would be tried together, which I think is really important. Yeah. Because otherwise they could, you know. Point the finger at the other one. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Exactly. And all of the physical evidence is against Mel. It's not against Candy. Well, sure, because he's the one who committed the murder evidence is against Mel. It's not against Candy. He's the one who committed the murder. The trial began on January 17th, 1966. And the material was expected to be so offensive and controversial due to the nature of Mel and Candy's relationship that Judge George Schultz barred anyone under the age of 21 from attending. You can vote, but you can't hear this. That's correct. Okay, great, great. Things would start out in Candy's favor. The jury was all men,

and if there was anything Candy knew how to do, it was gain the sympathy of men. So there was a weird law in Florida at the time, which of course has since been amended. But in order for a woman to serve on a jury, she had to be registered as a potential juror. I think those laws were actually common a lot in the United States. And it was just a way to keep women out of the process. And it worked great. Yep. So a jury of 12 men yeah

in the prosecutor's opening or in the prosecution's opening statement they laid out the facts in black and white the motive for this crime was simple hatred greed and lust yep jurors looked on uncomfortably as the prosecution described the illicit affair between aunt and nephew. They were like, like jurors like shifted in their seats. Like it was just very uncomfortable. That is nasty. And you have to look at them the whole time. When it was the defense's turn for opening statements, Percy Foreman took the tactic he was known for. Tear down the victim.

Put them on trial. Gross. Percy stood in front of the jury and called Jacques Mosler an unscrupulous businessman and a sexual deviant who slept with an axe by his bed. Was that true? I don't think so if each one of the 39 wounds on mossler's body had been inflicted by a different person foreman thundered there would still be three times as many people with real or imaginary justification for homicide even if that were true that doesn't make it right no yes illegal that's exactly oh he was just warming up okay okay he tried to trump any shock the jurors felt about incest by introducing another titillating sexual detail. Jacques Mosler was a homosexual.

And this forced his poor wife to seek companionship elsewhere. In the arms of her nephew. With her nephew. Wait, so was he really gay? No. It's believed that this was totally made up. So it was truly just like, what can we find in the 60s? What is worse than incest? Oh, good grief.

Homosexuality, clearly. Okay. Okay. Okay. He told the jury, the evidence will show that except for a shoe fetish, there's no fetish and psychopathic sexuality that Jacques Mosler did not indulge in. He had them all. Transvestitism, homosexuality, voyeurism, every conceivable type of perversion, masochism and sadism.

I love that he said that he had all of that except for the shoe yeah yeah that'd be too much that'd be too much or maybe maybe maybe percy foreman had a shoe fetish and he was like a shoe fetish totally normal totally normal no one think anything weird about that all this other stuff being gay freak big super freak big problem way worse than incest please fuck your nephew don't fuck another dude that that's just a ridiculous like line of thinking that's stupid it It is. Foreman promised to call witnesses that would tell all about the secret, erotic, homosexual lifestyle of Jacques Mosler. I'm very excited. Prosecutors spent three weeks presenting their case against Mel and Candy.

The evidence they had against Mel was good. There was blood. There were fingerprints. There were the flights. There was blood. There were fingerprints. There were the flights. There was the rental car. But the evidence against Candy was circumstantial. They didn't have any physical evidence against her. And of course, Candy and Mel were denying their relationship.

And so they needed something to tie the two together. Yeah. To find why Mel would have done this for Candy. What he had to gain from it as well. And they had these diaries and love letters of Candy's from Candy to Mel and then Candy's personal diary. But the judge determined that these were inadmissible at trial. Why? It was a huge blow to the prosecution

i i don't know specifically why but he didn't allow them at trial oh so in order to show that this murder was the work of both defendants and not just mel the prosecution called four witnesses who testified that candy and Mel had solicited each of them to kill Jacques Mosler. Oh. Though these witnesses were criminals, some of them were escorted into court in their prison uniforms, the first three seemed credible. Their stories made sense. And then with the testimony of the fourth one, the wheels started to fall off the prosecution train. The fourth man, Billy Frank Mulvey, was such an obvious liar that he led jurors to discount the testimony of all four and perhaps to doubt the prosecution's entire case. What? Mulvey, 35, was a lifelong Texas thief and drug dealer.

And he claimed that Candy Mosler had paid him $7,000 to kill her husband. He said he took the money and spent it, but didn't carry out the contract. This set Candy off in court. It was one of the few times that she had a visible reaction in the courtroom during the whole trial. And as Mulvey was telling his tale of this ordered hit, Candy yelled out in court, I have never seen or heard of this man in my life. She, of course, got, you know, yelled at by the judge and whatever, but the jury heard it. Of course, of course. If that wasn't enough to raise question though mulvey then took his

story too far he went on to say that he briefly shared a cell with mel powers in the harris county jail in houston after his arrest for the murder mulvey claimed that powers confessed to him that he'd murdered jock what the coincidence that Mulvey would have been paid for the hit and then present for this confession didn't seem like too great of a coincidence to the prosecution. They believed his tale. You're kidding.

In fact, it seemed that they hadn't even bothered to look into whether or not Powers and Mulvey were in jail together because the defense was able to prove that at the time Mulvey claimed Powers had confessed to him, he was actually in the hospital receiving a handful of treatments, including a tonsillectomy, facial sanding for his acne scar, ear pinning, and last but not least,cision wait which one was getting this was this Mel oh my yeah so when Mulvey says that he's in jail with this guy and he gets this confession there is proof that Mel Powers was in the hospital receiving all of these treatments

first of all who the fuck gets all those treatments at the same time? I do not know. And I'm sorry, but I feel like there's an age where you're like, you know what? I'm uncircumcised. I'm sticking to it. I'm here. I'm uncut. Deal with it. Deal with it, auntie.

Oh, God. An ear pinning is where if you have like ears that kind of stick out yeah i know what i know what have you ever heard of those kind of ears that kind of stick out i think i've seen them on will smith how dare you so this was obviously a major blow to the prosecution. Why did they put that guy on the stand? That is so stupid. They just believed his story apparently. No, they didn't. No, that's so dumb. Or they thought that the jury would at least believe him.

It's just dumb. Yeah, it's... If you're about to tell me... Hold on tight, Kristen. Damn it. The trial lasted seven weeks, and the length of it took a toll on Candy. She was excused from court multiple times for nausea, headaches, and faintness. On one occasion, she ran from the courtroom to throw up, and when she returned, Foreman snarled at her.

God damn you. When you have to get sick in the future do it in front of the jury oh is that that crazy he's like if you're gonna get sick get sick where they can see it so that they feel sorry for you yeah ew yeah ew but yes neither candy nor Mel testified in their own defense. And the defense failed to bring forward the string of witnesses to tell about Shock Mosler's deviant sexuality as they had promised. In fact, Percy Foreman didn't call a single witness. It was a strategic move. witness it was a strategic move because per florida state law this would mean he would get the final word at closing arguments oh my gosh so typically during closing arguments the prosecution

gives their closing argument then the defense gives theirs and then the prosecution gets a rebuttal yeah under the under florida state law at this, if the defense attorney did not call any witnesses, he then was the one that got the final rebuttal. So he'd get the final word in the jury's minds before they begin deliberations. I hate where this is going. During closing arguments, the prosecutors accused the defense of placing everyone on trial but the defendants. Pointing to Candy, one prosecutor shouted, she is the mastermind and manipulator of this entire scheme. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yes. But as I said, the final word was Percy Foreman's. He stood before the jury and said, I will now make a few brief remarks. Then he spoke for four hours and 58 minutes. Liar!

He lavished praise on the judge, his colleagues, and the jurors. He quoted scripture and repeatedly cautioned the jurors against judging Candy and Mel, but then acknowledged that that was precisely their duty. He dedicated more than an hour to the dissection of the character and testimony of Billy Frank Mulvey. When he finally finished, after nearly five hours, he sat down with a smile on his face.

The jury began deliberations on Thursday, March 3rd. They immediately took a vote and learned they were split into three groups. Three favored conviction. Four were undecided. And five favored acquittal. Good God. Is that not crazy? With all that physical evidence?

And... Yes. Oh. The following day, they asked to rehear testimony about fingerprints and the noises the neighbors overheard on the night of the murder.

So on the night of the murder, a couple of neighbors heard a dog barking. And then they heard Jacques' voice say, oh, it's you. Don't do it to me. Don't. No, no, no. And they actually a couple of them came out and knocked on his door. But when he didn't answer, they'd just gone back into their apartments.

None of them had called police. Oh. So they asked to rehear that testimony about that. And then I. And then you testimony about that. And then I. And then you lost your place? And then I lost my place. And then when I found my place, they took another vote. Great.

It was that the next evening and they were now nine to three in favor of acquittal. No. After hearing. No. Oh, it's you? Yeah. Yes. Who did they think that was? I don't know. They decided to sleep on it that night. And when they returned the next day, they found the count the same and sent the judge a note saying they were deadlocked. and sent the judge a note saying they were deadlocked. He ordered them to continue deliberations. On Sunday morning, after 16 hours and 33 minutes of deliberations,

the jury announced they had reached a verdict. Oh, my God. At 12.10 p.m., the judge read their verdict in court. They found Candy and Mel not guilty of jock mossler's murder what yep the judge declared them free to go and dismissed the jury without the customary offering of gratitude so typically when a jury's released the judge is like thank you for fulfilling your civic duty right you know thank you for devoting this time instead this judge is like, thank you for fulfilling your civic duty. You know, thank you for devoting this time. Instead, this judge was like, no thanks. Yeah, this judge was like, get the fuck out of here.

You're done. Dumb dumbs. Yeah. So when the jury got up to leave, Candy jumped up and rushed over and gave them all a kiss. Ew! Outside the courtroom, Candy and mel embraced and kissed it was one of the few times they were seen being outwardly affectionate in public then they rode off into the sunset in a gold cadillac candy blowing kisses to onlookers as they drove away no yes this is the grossest story.

Mel and Candy didn't stay together long after the trial. She claimed he was too emotionally immature and prone to jealousy. He claimed he was ready to date someone closer to his age. Really? None of them was like, I think I'd like to date someone who's not my relative. I think I'd like to stop fucking my aunt. none of them was like i think i'd like to date someone who's not i think i'd like to stop fucking my aunt it's so gross that is weird ew ew candy remarried a man 20 years her junior five years after her acquittal and they lived together in the mansion in hou. A little over a year into the marriage,

he fell from the roof of the third story of their home. Oh, what? And was permanently handicapped by his injuries. So here's the story here. It's believed that he came home drunk. Okay. And Candy had locked him out of the house. So he was scaling the side of the house to her bedroom window.

Oh, my. When he fell. And he was. the side of the house to her bedroom window when he fell. And he was. So not pushed. Not pushed. He legitimately fell because he was scaling the side of a fucking mansion. Like you do. Yeah. And so he was permanently injured.

Candy divorced him after the fall. Oh my God. after the fall. Oh my God. Jacques Mosler's will left $1 million in a trust to each child, his candies and the four they adopted. The rest went to candy. She took on an active role in the business, filling the chairman of the board position that Jacques had held.

It is said that she was constantly late to meetings and demanded that executives greet her with a kiss. Ew. Ew! Right? That's so gross. Yes! But she grew her inherited fortune.

In October of 1976... I gotta say, this is one of those rare things where she kind of broke the glass ceiling on sexual harassment yeah it said that people resigned because of it well yeah that's nasty yeah i have to kiss the chairman of the board yeah no thank you you fucked your nephew yeah i know where that mouth has been stop and i heard it's uncircumcised not anymore in october of 1976 candy was found dead in a bed at an upscale hotel in Miami wearing a pink nightgown and full makeup. She had come to town for a board meeting the following day and after checking in had called a doctor to treat her migraine.

He gave her injections of Demerol for pain and Finnergan for nausea. She died of postural asphyxia when her sedatives caused her to pass out face first into her pillow. Oh, God. An autopsy revealed that Candy was a decades-long drug abuser when thousands of needle pricks from years of injections were found in her buttocks. At the time of her death, were found in her buttocks. At the time of her death, her net worth was well over $100 million. Oh my gosh.

Adjusted for inflation. Yes. That would be upwards of $450 million today. That's insane. It wasn't until her death that anyone knew Candy's real age. I guess they had to cut her open and count the rings. Okay. That is so funny. her death that anyone knew Candy's real age. I guess they had to cut her open and count the rings. Okay.

It is so funny that you said that. That is exactly what I was thinking. After her death, they learned that she was born in 1914, which meant that she had been 34 when she married Jacques. He was 53 at the time. Okay. been 34 when she married jock he was 53 at the time okay and she had been 50 when she began the affair with mel who was only 20 ew and again her fucking nephew mel powers never married was he kind of messed up probably and uh he became heavily involved in real estate development and he was hugely successful in it in 1979 he had a net worth of about 200 million dollars wow which adjusted

for inflation would be close to 700 million dollars today that's insane yeah but by 1983 he was bankrupt poor investments i would guess because you can't blow through $200 million. Following his bankruptcy, he managed to rebuild his fortune, though. And he spent the remaining years of his life living in Houston. And few people seem to remember his sordid past. He didn't move out of Houston? He stayed in Houston. Gross. member his sordid past he didn't move out of houston stayed in houston gross he died in 2010 at 68 years old and uh that my friend is the uh dangers of having your extended family members move in with you that you're not gonna see it coming they're gonna your spouse is gonna fall

in love ew with their family member start banging them, and then they're going to murder you. And now you're going to be on the lookout for it because I've warned you. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Now I'm having really disgusting thoughts running through my head of what the possibilities would be. I tell you what, that would be the shock of a lifetime. No shit.

Okay. Entertain me. I'm not your puppet. Dance monkey. I am very worried that you've heard about this one. Okay. Because it's a Dateline episode. Here's the deal.

What's the deal? First of all, never heard this name before. Quinn Gray from your intro. Second of all, let me let you in on a little secret. Love Dateline, obviously. Yeah, it's like your favorite. I have 42 episodes on my DVR right now that I haven't watched. What are you doing with your life?

Starting to get a bit overwhelming. I don't know how I'm going to catch up. There's a lot of murder stories you don't know about. It's just been so busy lately. I don't have any time to watch them. Well, I hope you have time for me to tell you about one. I can't wait. This comes like almost exclusively from the episode of Dateline called Ransom.

And who was the interviewer? The dude with like the brown kind of curly hair, older guy. I mean, I'm only describing one guy. It's like there's our good buddy, Keith. Yeah. There's some women, right?. It's like there's our good buddy, Keith. Yeah. There's some women, right? Yeah. And then there's...

Josh Mankiewicz, right? Yes. Is that who it is? Josh Mankiewicz. Thank you. It's my least favorite. I hate to say that in such a public forum. I mean, with all of the listeners we have.

All 12 of our listeners. Why don't you like Josh? We're at least up to 22 by now you're right no why don't you like josh mcgree i'm a little bit dumb slightly dumb he has dumb questions i just don't like his facial expressions guys is there anything you like about his whole face and his questions and just his presence no i'm sorry i will i will scale that down just a bit he's just not my favorite i still watch the episodes he does are all 42 of the episodes just josh i'll watch everything about

the josh bankowitz one no the one thing i'll say about this one that i did not enjoy was the interviewer well at one point his hair got really messed up and for some reason no one told him hey josh what do you think there was like a strong wind yes yes i think a wind came through or like he'd been like napping in his car. They're like, hey, we got to do this interview. He like rushes in. Like pop to us. Like that game, Don't Wake Daddy.

What a weird name for a game. I remember that. Yeah. But anyway, are you ready? I am. Dateline me. Okay. I just made Dateline me. Okay. I just made dateline a verb.

Dateline me is when you tell someone a story with a lot of twists and turns. It's five o'clock on September 4th, 2009. We're in the super nice beach town of Ponte Vedra, Florida. It's a Florida episode. It sure is. And it's the nice part of Florida. Yeah, this is swanky Florida. We're not in like

Florida bug or Everglades area. We're like in the swanky rich people part. Got it. A man named Reed Gray calls police with horrible news. His wife, Quinn, is in trouble. He tells the dispatcher, My wife made a phone call to me a minute ago to say that she was held by gunpoint.

It sounds like a friggin' movie, but it's not. What's this guy's name? Already? Reed, did you say? Yes. Reed Gray. Reed Gray? That sounds like a fake 911 call if I've ever heard one.

It sounds like a movie, but it's not. Okay. I am with you. Reed Gray sounds like a made-up name yes because it's just too cool yeah um and in this 9-1-1 call you know they play the audio he's very calm he spills the whole story he says my wife called at work. She said that she'd been kidnapped out of our home and that the gunman left a list of demands inside the house. She said that if I called the police, they'd shoot her. Do not look at me like that. I'm just not buying it, Reed. But Reed was terrified.

Oh, was he? Because he sounded pretty calm, I heard. He felt like it was too risky not to call the police. Oh. So he called. The dispatcher's like, it's cool. Stay calm. I want you to come to the sheriff's

office. So Reed goes to the sheriff's office. In the meantime, a SWAT team descends on Reed and Quinn's amazing $4 million home. Damn! Let me tell you about the setup they have. Okay. Which, man, if I ever get rich, here's what I'm getting.

I'm getting the house on the beach with a pool. Oh, yeah. That, like, you can be in your pool looking at the beach. Infinity pool. So it just looks like your pool is becoming the ocean. Yes. Fuck, that'd be so nice. Yeah.

Gonna be hard to get here in Kansas. This here's Missouri. Oh, yeah. Sorry. It's gonna be hard to get here in the Kansas City metro area. Yeah. Yeah. Well.

Not a lot of oceanfront property here. I've heard it's all about just visualizing what you want. So the SWAT team slowly moves through the home. For the most part, everything looks normal. The place is clean. Everything's put away. They didn't make the bed, but you know. I'm a bed maker.

I know you are too. No signs of struggle. One thing that did stand out was that on the couch, there was a photo album, and it was open to a photo of Quinn on her wedding day. That's weird. Mm-hmm. They keep moving through the house.

Eventually, they enter the dining room, and on the dining room table, there was a ransom note. It was pretty long as far as ransom notes go. Was it written in Reed's handwriting? No. It was written in Quinned's handwriting no it was written in quinn's handwriting what it said dear reed i need you to read this and be calm do not be a hero don't be a hero this is professional brandy this is professional

and there are three men holding me right now and they want fifty thousand dollars cash no i will be okay if you get them the money hold the reins kristin what we're in okay correct me if i have misunderstood something thus far okay Okay. We're in a $4 million home. We sure are. And the ransom is $50,000? What's your point? That's like fucking pocket change for someone who owns a $4 million home. We'll get to that.

That is dumb as fuck. It's fake. Agreed. It's fake. Reed and Quinn, are they in on it together? I can't tell you anything. What do you think, I'm Josh Mankiewicz? So, immediately,

investigators are like, a kidnapping? Really? In 2009? Yeah. That Lindbergh baby kind of ruined it for him. There were all these big federal laws in place. It's kind of not done these days.

Definitely not. But they thought, hey, kidnapping is kind of an old crime that people don't really do anymore. But if you were going to kidnap someone, it makes sense to kidnap Quinn Gray. Because she's rich? Yeah. And then ask for $50,000? I'm gonna have to ask you to keep your pants on. So Reed makes

a ton of money. He's the COO of Advanced Home Care, which is in the healthcare industry. Investigators start learning everything they can about Quinn. She's this blonde, tan, 37-year-old cutie pie. She's trained to be a nurse. But at the time of the kidnapping, she was a stay-at-home mom. When she was kidnapped?

Yes. Was she wearing Lululemon leggings? If I had to guess, I would put a lot of money on that. Yeah, right? I'm just picturing her, like she's super cute and little and she just like,

yeah, she wears, I don't know. And I know for a fact that that day she did yoga. Uh-huh. I'm just, 64% of her life is spent in Lululemon leggings. Back when I had a, like, big girl job, like, one where it wasn't, like, in my home with my husband, I would see some women out in the middle of the day. Yeah.

Grocery shopping, and they were in leggings, and I thought, what am I doing with my life? Yeah. That's the life. And you put that on your vision board. And get kidnapped. Look where you are now. In leggings. Hey, I am in leggings!

You are! Put that pool on the beach on your vision board. Okay, I just gotta move the beach to Kansas City. So it seemed like these gunmen plucked Quinn out of her incredibly wealthy neighborhood when her kids were at school, knowing full well that her husband would pay whatever they wanted. $50,000. At this point, I'd like to offer you $50,000. Because you're acting like it isn't shit.

Well, no. I would love $50,000. Yes. That is a large amount of money to me. I, unlike Reed and Quinn, do not live in a $4 million home, Kristen. Ew, do you live in like a gross $2 million home? No, I'm with you. I slum it up in a $1 million home.

Brandy, that's the saddest. We're going to start a Kickstarter for Brandy. So Reed is freaking out. Police want more information from him. And he's like, sure, I'll tell you guys everything that I know. First off, during the phone call quinn said that the gunmen were albanian she what that's what she said okay were they like hi we're albanian we're here to kidnap you because there's no way she's looking at three men and

she's like okay oh definitely dark hair definitely albanian reebok shoes no what reebok i don't know no i have no idea i was figuring they're from albania so like you know trends are kind of maybe like a little bit late to get there so they're still wearing like the reebok pump ups oh yeah yeah on the tongue hey everything's coming back now. Now they're in. So. Albanian. That's what she told Reed. And that's what Reed is telling the police.

This is so fucking made up. Okay. She also said that they wanted $50,000 to pay off money that Reed supposedly borrowed from a loan shark. No. So he tells police this, and he's like, here's the thing. I never borrowed money from a loan shark. That would be crazy. He said, and I'm quoting here, let me put it into perspective. I'll probably make a little over $1.3 million this year.

Fuck. $50,000 doesn't mean much. I have it in my wallet right now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, and I read somewhere else, I'm pretty sure, that their mortgage payment was like $25,000 a month. Holy shit.

So Reed's telling them, Reed's on your side, Brandi. He's like like this is weird if someone's going to kidnap a member of my family they could go for a lot more is this a strategic move by him to point out the weirdness in his own fake kidnapping what would he gain i don't know i'm just trying to you know is starting, it's starting to venture off my theory a little bit. Okay. It's looking like maybe, you shouldn't have said those terrible things about Reed in the beginning. Maybe he's not involved.

This does seem a little odd. Okay. So he's like, this is weird. None of this makes sense. I would agree, Reed. By this point, it's been a few hours since Quinn was kidnapped. And police are like, since Quinn was kidnapped. That's exactly what I was going to say.

So the police are like, how are things at home? And Reed's like, did he let them see like their bank accounts and stuff i assume all right yeah i don't know what that would matter like it's not like the government has like a ransom fund where they pay the fifty thousand dollars but i mean i would think they'd be like okay you say you're financially secure let's see and see yeah probably they did okay all right so reed's like we've been married for eight years we are crazy in love we've been talking about having another kid things are great he was very blunt with detectives he said our marriage has had an ugly side

at one point i had an affair frankly, she has had affairs. But we're good now. And I'm just really concerned about her. I'm very worried about her. What? I don't know. See, I mean. You believe in him?

Well, I know the full story, so I shouldn't say anything. But okay. Moving on. Reed ended up staying. Give me just like a, if you're like, like if he's not in on it just give me like a wink winker a wink winker reed ended up staying are you not doing it because you don't know how to wink i know how to wink i think there's something creepy about saying give me a wink winker. What? It's too close to wanker.

I'm not giving you any of that. I just need like a little something. I'm taking my hair down all sexy. I know. What are you trying to seduce me right now, Kristen? Are you seduced? I'm not. I'm not.

Well, I've got gotta keep on trying. Guess the hair will go back up. She's like a librarian right now. She pulled like one pin out of her hair and then like slow motion shook it back and forth until it fell in perfect curls around her face. Then I took my glasses off and I just like stuck the stem just in her mouth.

And then I said now are you turned on what more do I have to do I'm working up a sweat over here okay so Reed ended up staying at the sheriff's office until the wee hours of the morning. Where are the kids? They're at a friend's house. They just were left at school overnight. No, no. So Reed was allowed to go, like, make sure the kids were taken, you know, but they weren't told what was going on.

Because I think they were eight and six at this point. going on because i think they were eight and six at this point right finally he went back home and at around 9 a.m the next morning he sent quinn a text it read haven't slept all night please tell me you're all right she didn't respond it sounds like a song see is he an amateur songwriter that's it was all for his album wasn't that be great he's trying to become a tortured artist this was all to drum up publicity

his single drops Friday use the promo code LGTC so then a few hours later he got a call Single drops Friday. Use the promo code LGTC. So then, a few hours later, he got a call. From Quinn. What? She's like, the kidnappers are going to contact you in a few minutes. Gotta go.

45 minutes later, Reed gets a call. It's Quinn again. And the reception is really spotty, but she's clearly panicked and she's giving him the location of the money drop. And he's like, slow down. I have to write this down. And her panic sort of kind of slides into anger. And she's like, please listen, just do it. She gives the directions again. And she kind of mumbles, you've got the cops. They're going to kill me. The call ends. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Still not buying it. 30 minutes later, another call comes in. It's Quinn again. Mm-hmm. She's like, I have a new location. This time, I want you to go to the Chick-fil-A. We'll meet in the parking lot.

Get me a spicy chicken sandwich, no pickles, extra Chick-fil-A sauce. If there's pickles, I die. And a Diet Coke. If it's regular Coke, I die. Brandi, are we hearing your Chick-fil-A order right now? Maybe. And also waffle fries Waffle fries are the best kind of fries Oh my gosh

Yeah so for the record my Chick-fil-A order is a spicy chicken sandwich No pickle Diet Coke Waffle fries Side of homophobia Extra Chick-fil-A sauce no so i have not eaten no actually ever since the anti-gay stuff came out i have not gone to chick-fil-a even though i know there's probably a million ceos who if i knew their horrible opinions on stuff i would never i eat anywhere or anywhere. I go there and I eat it and I feel terrible about myself while I eat it.

That's the best way to do it. I feel the same way when I am getting those 50% off deals at Hobby Lobby. No, you know what my one guilt-free Chick-fil-A moment is? They come to the Kansas City Marathon every year. And at the end of the marathon, they give out free. Oh, it's free. Yes. So I'm like.

I will take your free stuff. Yes. But they don't give out waffle fries. God, now I'm hungry for. Waffle fries are so good. Oh, spicy chicken sandwich. Stop it. You guys, when I came down from the bathroom, I said randomly, I really want some mozzarella sticks.

And while Kristen was in the bathroom, I had been thinking how much I wanted mozzarella sticks. Which is super weird. It's so weird. Because how often do you crave mozzarella sticks? Our mozzarella stick cravings have synced up, Kristen. I've heard that happens to women. Female roommates. They get on the same mozzarella stick cycle.

So Reed's like, okay, we'll meet in the Chick-fil-A parking lot. I'll get you your diet coke. The fucking Chick-fil-A? Why are they meeting at Chick-fil-A? I don't make the rules. The kidnappers do. The fake kidnappers? Wow.

Reed's probably going to feel bad if this is a real kidnapping. You might feel bad. Is there like a, can I get a wink at the end of that? I'm not giving you any winks, lady. I tried to seduce you earlier. You weren't having it. No. So Reed's like, that's fine, but I'm exchanging the money for you.

I'm not leaving without you. Oh, so he wants to do like a. No one can see what you're doing right now. Okay, you put the money out with one hand and then he grabs Quinn's hand and they change like the exact same time.

What is that that you're doing? Well, so I'm doing hand up but I feel it looks a little bit like I'm on a Tony Little Gazelle. Burning off the Chick-fil-A. That's right.

I'm eating my Chick-fil-A feeling terrible about myself working it off on the tony little gazelle have you ever been on one of those yeah it's the most fun ever there's no way you're actually burning calories no absolutely not but you're having a good time and your ponytail might look as good as his does. Probably not. So then there's another call. She's like, the gunman just spotted three unmarked fed cars at the Chick-fil-A. The Chick-fil-A is no good. I'll call you later with more instructions.

Were there unmarked cars at the Chick-fil-A? Well, hell yeah i mean every like yeah you know they had the fbi involved in this so all right so there were unmarked police cars at the chick-fil-a so those investigators were like oops i guess we got spotted no shit you have to do better at this i wonder if they were like all wearing aviators and like just had that police look like a really close haircut you know then a little while later reed gets a text it says i know you want me dead what he responds i don't know if that's Quinn. I have your $50,000. Stop fucking with me.

Just give me my wife. Is Reid not in on this? I don't know. I'm starting to question. Actually, I do know because I'm full of knowledge. Because unlike you, I watch the Dateline episodes. I'm starting to question his involvement. I'm still all in on Quinn being involved.

And what are your thoughts on pickles on the Chick-fil-A? Oh, fuck, no. No pickles. At this point, Reed is exhausted. So detectives go with him back to his house, and their plan is to set up a command center there they pull into the driveway and reed gets another text it says wait for instructions you fucked up twice already you involved other people whose ford is that in the driveway what What?

Uh-huh. in the driveway. And they're smart enough to take the battery out of Quinn's cell phone when she isn't using it, so it can't be traced. Investigators were getting very frustrated. The best they could do was figure out which cell towers her phone pinged off of when it was in use. So they had, like, this general idea of where Quinn and the kidnappers were located. But then they moved out of that general area. So investigators spent all day Saturday using what data they could find to track down where they were. They thought they were getting somewhere.

But then they realized that they'd messed up. that they'd messed up. When they'd requested a judge's order to get that information about where the cell phone was, someone filled out the form incorrectly. What? They mixed up the number. My understanding is like they just like switched maybe two of the numbers.

They let the dyslexic guy fill out the form? Oh! Sorry. Is that in poor form? No! Sorry. Is that in poor taste? We'll see. If you're offended, please contact Brandi directly. So this whole time they'd been tracking the wrong fucking phone. Yes.

They have almost gotten this fucking fake kidnapped girl fake killed. Wow. I'm just not buying that she's real kidnapped okay real kidnap real it's fake kidnapped meanwhile i just am trouble i'm having trouble i okay so so far uh-huh i don't believe it's a real kidnapping. I think it's fake. But for $50,000, why? Good question. All right. Meanwhile, Quinn's mom, Gail, drives in from Georgia. She arrives at like 2 a.m. She was worried.

She was pissed. What about Reed's dad, Earl? Does he come in? Like, from London? Earl Gray. she was pissed what about reed's dad earl does he come in like from london gray terrible your worst joke yet no it's so good of your life i will cut that. No, you dare. That is high quality material there, Kristen. Because it's like tea.

Oh, wow. In case anyone didn't get that. Earl Grey is a kind of tease. She's still laughing. We can't go on because Brandi is still laughing. So Gail was suspicious. The FBI sits Gail and Reed down in the kitchen.

They're sitting right next to each other and Gail just comes out with it.. They're sitting right next to each other. And Gail just comes out with it. She's like, I suspect Reed. Shit. Uh-huh. She said it right to his face. She said, I know that at one point you threatened my daughter with divorce. And I know she didn't want a divorce. And you know, if she's dead, that's pretty convenient for you, isn't it? And you know, if she's dead, that's pretty convenient for you, isn't it? You don't have to worry about custody. You don't lose money.

Life goes on for you. Ooh! Yeah. She's not pulling any punches. Yeah. Ooh! How does Reed react? Um, so Reed was adamant that he had nothing to do with it.

Was he? Well, I don't know exactly how that conversation went. You weren't there for it? No, they didn't let me in. I was in the pool swimming. So, he's like, I had nothing to do with the kidnapping. At some point in all this, the investigators did ask him to take a polygraph. And he was like, sure.

He took it. He passed. No. Yeah, so the investigators, I think fairly early on, actually believed that Reed was not involved. I've said some bad stuff about him. It's okay. He's not listening. How do you know?

I guess I don't. Is he dead? Is that how this ends? Oh, no, no, no. Oh, my God. No. I just assume he has better things to do. Then listen to our award-winning podcast. What awards have we won?

Gold stars from our moms. I'm just thinking, if you've got a pool that overlooks the beach, I mean, what are you doing other than just being like I love my life I love my life Well then you have an amazing sound system out there Okay You listen to our podcast through the sound system While you're you know I love my life in your pool

Do you know how honored I would be? Oh my god I would lose my mind. If anybody is currently listening that way, please reach out to us and let us know. By Sunday morning, Quinn has been missing for about a day and a half, and it's been 12 hours since they've heard from her. Wow. Things are tense. She's fake dead by now, right? Oh, my God.

Come on now. FBI agent Tony Kravitz was the lead crisis negotiator. tense. She's fake dead by now, right? Oh my god, come on now. FBI agent Tony Kravitz was the lead crisis negotiator. She was like, Gail, good to have you with us. Is she spelled with an I? Tony, no. No, she spells it the

masculine way. Wow. I like it. Actually, you know what? Why am I assuming that? Probably I misspelled it. Duh! That's ridiculous. Actually, you know what? Why am I assuming that? Probably I misspelled it. Duh. That's ridiculous. Yeah, she probably definitely spells it with an I. Here's the plan. Every half hour to an hour, I want you to text Quinn.

Say things like, I love you. I miss you. Please call me. This is what she's saying to the mom? Yes. Okay. All right. So the plan is, you know, we want the kidnappers to read these messages, start to see Quinn as a human being.

The fake kidnappers? Brandy. So suspicious. I am suspicious. Although, I mean, it's making less and less sense. So that was the plan. I'm not going to feel bad at all if... If what?

I'll feel bad if she was real kidnapped. Well, yeah, of course you'd feel awful. You'd be like, can we re-record this? Turns out, I said he was a super douche and he was dead the whole time. So I need to pull a Kristen. Wow. If that's pulling a Kristen, that's a sad state of affairs

bad-mouthing someone realizing they were dead the whole time oops so Gail starts messaging Quinn with all these messages messaging her with all these messages and All these messages. And the plan worked. There's just messages here, messages there. Sometimes they were blank. Sometimes she was messaging her with carrier pigeons. Pretty soon,

Gail got a response. The text said, have the money in a bag. No traceable devices. No read whatsoever. If he's anywhere close, she's dead. No cops. Be ready to leave at 11.

Gail was panicked, but she said, that's my daughter. I'll do what I need to do. A little while later, she gets instructions from the kidnappers. She's told, go to this restroom on the beach. When you get there, you'll find instructions inside the kidnappers she's told go to this restroom on the beach when you get there you'll find instructions inside the bathroom gail's like cool she grabs a blue duffel bag with ten thousand dollars and a tracking device there so they're just not following the instructions at all fuck the fake kidnappers we do what we want? That's how the FBI rolls. Okay.

She drives to that bathroom, goes inside, and finds a note hidden inside the toilet paper holder. That's where I'd look, too. I mean, what the fuck? I assume she was instructed. Oh, okay. Because, yeah, that would be like... Like, now where would I... Oh, of course, inside the... Let me... Get up there, yeah, that would be like. Like, now, where would I? Of course, inside the. Let me get up there.

Right next to the empty roll. Got it. That would be a really disgusting job to go to a public restroom and search for something. Yeah. Not interested. What if I was kidnapped? What if Oliver was kidnapped? What?

Hey, that re-hits you. Not my poor puppy. what if Oliver was kidnapped what hey that reaction not my poor puppy yeah what the hell when it was me you were like there's other people that would search for you you've got a whole loving family oh wow just leave it to everyone else Zach and I are all that Oliver have

what if I got kidnapped and Norman was like, he called you up, he's like, sounds like a friggin' movie. He's like, I'm busy gaming, I'm gonna need you to.

He's like, I'm streaming on Twitch right now. Got a lot on my plate. Yeah, I would look for you. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

The future of this podcast depends on it. You'd show up to Chick-fil-A and you'd like make an order and then you'd come out. And as mentioned before, I put way too much work into grooming you to be my friend. So you can't have me start over with somebody else. There's no good candidates. There's not. Trust me.

People are lining up left and right to be my friend. I was like, how's she going to finish that sentence? So she's, okay, hold on. What I'm saying is you're pretty lucky thank you no seriously i'm the lucky one that was so touching that felt like the end of a full house episode cue the music so this bathroom note which i'm sure hadn't been splattered with anything it was in quinn's handwriting and it said mom so far i'm fine then it gave gail instructions on where to drop the money the kidnappers wanted her to drop the money near the local joe's crab shack what the fuck they're hungry all right so go in get one

of those boilers with the crab legs right eat that and then drop off the no one has time for someone to eat crab i know that's what i'm saying! You gotta crack that shit and pull out... I mean, you gotta work so hard for that little pile of meat you get out of there. Not interested. I like crab. I don't want to do the work. And then, like, how... They give you butter. How are you supposed to get it in there without just dropping

the crab in there? You gotta use the, like, adorable little thing. The tiny fork? Yeah. Maybe I'm trying to... I'm just going into, I'm going into hot. You're so excited that you finally got to do the crab. And then it just falls off into the butter and I'm like, dang it. Fish it out of there. It's been a really long time since I've eaten crab legs because I just find it so annoying.

If you can't watch 42 episodes of Dateline, you know you don't have time for crab legs. What if that was how they determined how busy you were as a person? If they're like, when's the last time you had crab legs? Yeah. I'm pretty busy then. Okay. So the kidnappers wanted her to drop the money near the local Joe's Crab Shack. The note ended with with if anything goes

wrong i'm dead fake dead so gail drives to joe's crab shack and of course there are undercover agents watching this whole thing she sees some bushes she drops the bag in the bushes and she drives off with her to go order she had some hush puppies for the road. God, I hope so. Pretty soon, a group of guys walk by. One of them kicks the bag. He picks it up. They put it in their car, and they take off. Investigators are so thrilled. They're hot on the tail of the kidnappers.

They're like, we got them! The kidnappers start taking these really weird routes. I can't believe somebody's there. Okay, are you about to tell me that these are real kidnappers and this is not a fake thing? Somebody came and picked up the drop. Are you about to say, I'm sorry for all the things that I have said?

Find out in roughly two minutes. So they're driving like they're trying to lose the tail. But the FBI is like, can't lose us. We have your license plate. We've got undercover cars everywhere. We've got an airplane. Good luck. The fuck's the airplane doing?

Watching this whole thing go down. How can an airplane fly slow enough to be monitoring this situation? I don't know. Listen, I need to know more. Listen, you don't know about 1950s vasectomies. I don't know i need to listen you don't know about 1950s vasectomies i don't know about today's airplanes these are the blind spots in our education uh listeners if you can fill us in on those two topics that'd be great then gail gets a phone call it's quinn she's like where's the money and gail's like i dropped the money i did it yeah then a male voice comes on the line what he's like didn't anybody follow you

who's the male voice the kidnapper yeah where's reed what do you mean where's reed with her no he's he's got a secret phone he's like doing the voice no he's like in the back seat yeah hello no i don't know where reed is i mean i assume okay reed's accounted for yes he's accounted for and there's a now a male voice yes wait now you're suspicious of this? Yeah. Boyfriend. Okay. She's fucking around. He's like, did anybody follow you? And Gail's like, no, certainly not.

And he says, okay, anybody follows you, you know what happens. Call ends. She fake dies. Investigators are like, this is amazing. We've heard one of the kidnappers voices we're tracking their car things are going our way a little weird that they're asking where the money is when they already have the money but you know details details in the meantime the kidnappers car pulls into a gas station and holy shit a jacksonville police cruiser pulls up next to it oh shit the police officer starts talking to the guys in the car meanwhile

all the undercover agents are like what the hell is happening because no one knew about the kidnapping yeah or the ransom except for the sheriff's office and the fbi ordinary police officers aren't in the know no okay so just this guy has just come up to them oh shit so the undercover people call the jacksonville police department they're like holy shit there's an officer talking to a couple of dudes in a gas station at this address do not mess them up do not mess this up. We need to bring them into the station right now. Yeah. So they bring them in. Turns out

they were just a couple of guys who were walking by some bushes at a Joe's Crab Shake. And they found a bag with money in it. And took it. Oh my gosh. And then realized

that they were being followed by a bunch of cars and they freaked out. So they called the police. Holy shit. My favorite. My favorite. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Yeah, so basically they called the police for protection from the FBI.

It's so useful. So that was a total dead end. Yeah. At this point, Gail is freaking out she's like i did my part the wrong people picked up the money now my daughter is going to be murdered she's not for real murdered don't worry gail she's not going to be murdered she's in on it more time passes gail gets another phone call and this time it's that same male kidnapper from before quinn's boyfriend pissed he's like this is bullshit new plan on tuesday morning reed's going to the bank he's taking out 50 grand and this time he's dropping it at Chili's. They do clearly love chain restaurants.

Yeah, like middle of the road chain restaurants. But the FBI didn't like that. They were like, okay, yeah, it's a holiday weekend. He can't go to the bank on Monday, so it would have to be Tuesday. But we can't wait until Tuesday. Yeah, we can't wait. So Tony says, Gail, we're would have to be Tuesday. But we can't wait till Tuesday. Yeah, we can't wait. So Tony says, Gail, we're going in a new direction.

From now on, when they call, I want you to be more aggressive. A while later, the kidnapper calls. I don't know why I'm saying ooh, it doesn't matter because it's not fucking real. I would be careful with what you say,

Brandy Egan. If that is your real name. I recall when I first met you, you went by a different name. I don't know what to believe. You show up in glasses today. They have those giant eyebrows and that nose attached to them so a little while later the kidnapper calls and he starts ranting about not getting the money gail's like you know what i think you're lying i think you did get that money the kidnapper says

did you hear that that was a round i just fired off did she hear it no and neither did i like they play the audio yeah they played the audio and it's like it's just like you and me talking right now and me being like did you hear that i just shot off around but i mean she was still alarmed next time it's in your daughter's head! Oh, God. Is that what he said? He was implied. But that shot was as real as this kidnapping.

I would love to sit and watch an episode of Dateline with you. I feel like it would just be a lot of angry nope, don't buy it, nope. It is. It's much like this. Does Zach watch Dateline with you. I feel like it would just be a lot of angry, no, don't buy it. It's much like this. Does Zach watch Dateline with you? He doesn't love to.

Occasionally, but probably because of this type of shit. Does he like his own commentary? He's like, I'd rather just go along with the mystery. Stop trying to figure it out, please. Let's just watch and learn together so blah blah blah later gail gets a text it says mom please no cops i am so sorry about all of this

but they are pissed and i want to see my girls a few hours later another text comes in it reads i do not get access to my phone have reed check his email pick of me taken did he get all the money reed reed opens his email and sure enough there's a photo of quinn it's a close-up of her face it looks like she'd been crying her face was kind of puffy. She's not wearing makeup. The background looks like a generic wall. It didn't seem like much, but the FBI was thrilled. Because when you take a photo with an iPhone, it has GPS coordinates.

Oh! So within a few minutes... How does that work? Is it stamped in the corner of the picture for more information on this google it so within a few minutes they knew exactly where quinn and the kidnappers were so they rushed to the scene but But no one was there. What? A few hours later, Gail gets another phone call.

It's that same male kidnapper. They start arguing back and forth. Gail's like, I want to see my daughter. I want her to come to me, and then you get the money. The kidnapper's like, excuse me, I'm the one who makes decisions here. He's like, don't know if you've ever been the victim of a kidnapping situation before, but that's not the way this goes. I have not, neither has Quinn. Whoa. Eventually, they agree to meet up somewhere, but the kidnappers don't show. We have to assume it was at Chili's. Hours pass. Gail and Reed are pissed off and worried. Then a 911 dispatcher gets a call. It's Quinn.

What? She's sobbing. She's hysterical. She says, I've been kidnapped and I don't know where I am. These guys just dropped me out of a white van in front of the mall. Okay. I bet she knows where the mall is. Your empathy knows no bounds.

Wealthy stay-at-home mom. For sure. Guessing she's been to the mall a time or two. Fair enough. The dispatcher is like, okay, stay where you are. We're coming for you. They stay on the phone.

So the kidnappers just let her go without getting the ransom. Right. That's how kidnappings end so often. Yes. Mm-hmm. They stay on the phone, and Quinn says,

they held me in this warehouse place. They duct taped me and zip tied me to a chair. She's an absolute wreck telling all this stuff. Pretty soon, police pick her up. They bring her to the FBI building in Jacksonville. Gail and Quinn are reunited. Mm-hmm. And Quinn is mad.

Mad? She tells her mom. Yeah, because she didn't get her $50,000. Damn, Brandi. She tells her mom, you almost. If you just escaped kidnappers, you would not be mad at your mom. I mean, I don't know how you would feel, but yeah,

that seems really weird to me. It's fucking bullshit. Poor Gail. So she tells her mom, you almost got me killed. She told an investigator, I think my husband wanted me dead. He has a dark,

sinister side to him. And if he wanted to save me, he could have done it. Why didn't he do it? Quinn seemed annoyed. Yeah. She didn't want to tell them the details about the kidnapping. When they asked, she snapped at them.

It was super weird. That is super weird. But maybe she was just traumatized. They let her go back home and come back the next day to tell the story. So she comes back and she's super apologetic. She's like, I'm sorry for being so weird the other day. I think I was just brainwashed into thinking that my husband wanted me dead. I'm sorry.

This has been a lot to deal with. Brainwashed after two days? Hey, maybe, you know, depends on how smart you are, how easy it is to wash your brain out. I don't know. Wash your brain out? But I'm here to tell my story. I've cooked it up. I thought it all up last night.

Serving it on a platter to you right now. So she launches into it. The day of the abduction she went to the spa went to yoga you know she was in lululemon did some errands and got home she went to her closet started changing her clothes all of a sudden a man bursts in he has a gun and he's wearing rubber gloves he says don't do anything stupid. I'm going to, sorry, I'm going to need this for the visual. We're talking like doctor's rubber gloves or like yellow rubber gloves used to do dishes.

Like the Hulk hands. Oh! Hulk smash. No, I have no idea. It's really difficult to kidnap someone because those are in a permanent fist position. Well, you know, you could knock them out pretty easily. Fist her to the car. Oh, gross.

It didn't mean it like that! No! No! And then, like, punch! Like, carry her between two fists! Oh, God! That was horrible. Fist her to the

car. I'm sorry. Oh, that's worse than being kidnapped. Oh, no. I'm so sorry. That's just a terrible image. Oh, wow. For the record, what I meant when I said that, what I was envisioning.

Was a light fisting. Oh, God. No, was like a man taking those. Okay, does everybody know what Hulk hands are? Like, they're a children's toy. They're like this giant. Everyone's turned it off by now. Like, these giant foam hands.

So I was picturing a kidnapper picking her up between the two fists and carrying her to the car. I'm very sorry. Oh, gosh. So he says to her, don't do anything stupid. I'm not here for you. I'm here for the $50,000 that your husband owes this loan shark. Yeah, uh-huh.

But she's the only one in the house, so he fists her all the way to the back. No, he takes her to some warehouse, zip ties her to a chair. She's terrified. After a while, he untied her, let her lay down. He started kissing her. And she's like, what? I'm sorry, what?

Yeah. She's like, I'm not going to resist him. It's too dangerous. So she decides, I'm going to make this the best sex possible. No! Come on! In the hopes that he'll let me live. No!

She told the investigator, I acted like I enjoyed it. And I'm not going to lie. Sometimes I almost did. Bull fucking shit. This is so fucking fake. It's her boyfriend. She's arranged this whole thing. Wow. But it's, you just can't decide.

Like, what is the motivation? And is Reed in on it? Why would Reed be in on it? Maybe it's like a... Oh. Hmm. Well. Classic fist my wife situation.

Oh, God! You brought it up. No! Just want to remind everyone. Okay, so police were like, well, that's kind of an odd reaction to being sexually assaulted, but trauma were like, well, that's kind of an odd reaction to being sexually assaulted, but trauma can produce weird feelings and there's no right or way to feel.

Lots of urges and Kristen can tell you all about them. She's seen her fair share, more than her fair share of sex ed videos, it turns out. Oh, God. There's lots of, you know know changes and urges and hair quinn continues on with her story she says that on the second night the kidnapper took her to the emerson inn he bought them some spicy chicken at public'six. So investigators are like, why are you making a face at spicy chicken? Like you're anti-spicy chicken.

No, I love spicy chicken. Are you wishing you'd been kidnapped by this guy? No. Best sex ever and spicy chicken? And spicy chicken, wow! So investigators are like, great. We can check in with the staff at the hotel. We can talk to the staff at Publix. So investigators go to Publix.

They ask for the surveillance footage. They look through it. And sure enough, they found the guy. Buying spicy chicken. Hell yeah, he was buying spicy chicken. Oh my gosh. In what form? Like drumettes.

Are you impressed? No, she said it on the Dateline episode. Oh. What? I'm horrified. Horrifying. Everyone who doesn't know, that is our impression of Bill Hader doing an impression. Doing Keith Morrison.

Yeah. That's what you came here for. That's right. So Quinn looked at the photo and was like, yes, that's him. That's the man who kidnapped me. So police alert the media. Pretty soon that dude's blurry picture is everywhere. Two days later, a 911 dispatcher gets a call

it's the dude from the surveillance what and he's like uh my picture's on the news the news says i kidnapped someone and i was just banging my girlfriend so i'm pretty confused i was being a perfect gentleman, buying her some chicken. So, Yasmin Osmanovich comes to the police station. He's totally relaxed. Origin of that last name? Is it Armenian? I mean, what is it? He's not Albanian. Albanian? He's Bosnian.

Oh. But, he matched Quinn's description. Alright. He's like, I don't need a lawyer. I'm happy to talk to you. He's like, I don't need a lawyer. I'm happy to talk to you. He's like, I couldn't have kidnapped anyone. The night of the kidnapping,

I was out at a bar. I met this woman named Stacy. Looks an awful lot like Quinn. We had a two night stand. It was super fun. What? What? That's what he said.

The officer is like, is it Quinn? Has to be Quinn. It's Quinn. Quinn is Stacy. Stacy is Quinn. Finkel is Einhorn. Einhorn is Finkel. So the officer is like, okay, what's Stacy's last name? And Yasmin's like, I don't know.

I banged her for two days. I'm not. What part of two night stand did you not catch? Then they're like, what's Stacey's address? And he's like, dude, I don't know. Again. We banged for two days. We were not planning our lives together.

We had sex and You need chicken. What more is there? The officer brings in a photo of Quinn Gray. He shows it to Yasmin. Yasmin studies it and he's like, I don't know that woman. What? No.

But the investigators know he's full of shit. Of course he's full of shit. They're like, dude, she ID'd you. The hotel clerk ID'd you. We've got footage of you in Publix at the time she said you'd be there. We've got you. But Yasmin's like, no, you got it all wrong. That's not the woman I was banging.

They're setting me up to be the fall guy. And it's all because I'm a mechanic. I Not the woman I was banging. They're setting me up to be the fall guy. And it's all because I'm a mechanic. I'm not rich. She is. She's got the pool looking out at the beach. This is me talking, not him. But you know.

I got it. Thank you. Who's setting him up? Quinn and this mystery man. I guess. Yes, man. But you know what? I've got a secret recording that'll get me out of this whole thing.

And you know why I have these tapes? Because I'm smart. I've got a high IQ. Oh, God. I may have been played for a fool, but I'm not an idiot. So the investigator is like, all right. All right, buddy.

But, you know, the guy's like, okay. All right, big guy, show us how smart you are. So he's like, all right, you know, if you've got these tapes, go ahead and hand them over. But Yasmin's like, I'd rather not. I've got them hidden away. Thank you very much. What? So again, investigators think he is totally full of shit.

Full of shit, yeah. But the next day, a defense attorney contacts the police. And the attorney says, yeah, the tapes are real. And you need to hear them. Here's a transcript of part of the tapes. Yasmin, if they just knew you were here by yourself all night long with a gun, they would have a fit. Quinn, that's why I'm starting to feel like I'm the sinister one doing this to my family.

Yasmin, it's Reed, remember? Quinn, I know, but they're suffering too. Yasmin, your family's going to be fine, promise. Quinn, when this is all over, I have your word. Yasmin. What? Quinn. Whatever story we come up with, you stick to it. Yasmin. We both have to stick to the same story because we're both fucked, huh? Oh my gosh. Yeah. So the secretly recorded tapes captured a whole lot of what sounded like consensual sex. At one point, Yasmin said, does Reed get this much action? And Quinn said, you know he doesn't. Oh, God. Reed's really not in on it?

No. At this point, I'm going to give you some time to apologize to Reed. I do apologize to you, Reed. I 100% thought you were in on it from your shitty 911 call. Oh, wow. You're so good at apologies. You should do this for a living. I'm sorry, but...

So the recordings indicated that Quinn was in on the whole thing. Yeah. At one point... As Brandy said from the get-go. Wow. Did they say that on the Dateline episode? Yeah, I do think they credited you. Thank you.

I think they've started putting little check marks on Dateline episode. Yeah, I do think they credited you. Thank you. I think they've started putting little check marks on Dateline episodes where you correctly guessed the ending. Excellent. Yeah, it's something that everyone is interested in. At one point, she talked about how she'd probably need to make bigger marks on her wrists and ankles if she was going to tell the police about being zip-tied.

Did she have marks on her wrist? Yeah, she had little ones. Look, look. It stings right here where I had the zip-tie. Yeah. Ugh. So the story was nuts. Authorities developed a theory that Quinn and Yasmin

had been having an affair for a while. Uh, yeah. And that the ransom and kidnapping was all an elaborate hoax so that Quinn would have some money to leave Reed and start fresh. $50,000? Yeah, it's stupid. That's so fucking dumb. I, well, and that's one thing that Quinn said in her defense,

which was, no, that's... That's not enough money. Yeah. Yeah. Which makes me think this whole thing is just super weird. I mean, the $50,000 is just... It's just, that's... That's not enough money. Yeah. Yeah. Which makes me think this whole thing is just super weird. I mean, the $50,000 is just... It's just... I don't get it.

To them, it's nothing. Mm-mm. Oh, okay. Let me fast forward to a quote. She goes, If I wanted $50,000, I'd take it out of the bank account. Yeah. Yeah.

That's... Yeah. So a little while later, Yasmin was arrested for extortion. The next day, they arrested Quinn Gray and charged her with extortion. Oh, my gosh. She pled not guilty. She claimed she was a victim of kidnapping. No, she wasn't.

Reed stood by his wife. What? He went on the Today Show and said, I believe she was kidnapped. No, Reed. Gail stood by Quinn, too. She argued that her daughter really had been kidnapped, and she said, Quinn has bipolar disorder. She was in a manic state. She was maybe doing what she needed to do to survive.

Did Reed hear these tapes uh not yet at this point in the story gail pointed out that he'll change his mind when he hears them gail pointed out that at one point on the tape yasmin did say, I can release you tonight. Now, the Dateline episode did say she's not listened to the whole thing. I wonder if maybe she had a transcript. I don't know. But she said her daughter was the victim. Okay. All right. She also said...

Gail. Gail also said that police can't find any evidence that they had an affair before the abduction. And that is true. Police don't have evidence that Quinn and Yasmin had an affair before the abduction, which I do think is kind of weird. I don't think it's that weird. Why don't you think it's weird? Because she's had affairs in the past and she's gotten caught so you know what you do after you've gotten caught having affairs you get really good

you get really good at hiding your affairs yeah but that's one-sided so she gets good at covering it up. But does her lover? I don't know. I mean, that is a good point. Hmm. But also, I don't think they'd been having an affair for very long. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe he wasn't as into it as she was. What does that mean?

Like, he wasn't, you know, keeping messages and, oh, okay. Stuff like that. That's why there wasn't anything to find on his end. He was just in it for the banging. You know, that is really weird.

If there were no cell records, am I? I don't know. Okay. Anyway, I'm going to keep going here. So prosecutor Jennifer Dunton starts building a case. She talked to Dateline and she said that she never saw any proof that Quinn actually had a mental illness.

She said Quinn's doctor said she might be bipolar, but then backed off of that and said she didn't meet the criteria for bipolar disorder. A big part of the prosecution's case rested on the fact that Quinn spent so much time alone during the kidnapping. Yeah. She was left alone overnight. She was left by herself in the car multiple times. If she didn't want to be there, she had multiple opportunities to leave. Mm-hmm. This was not a real kidnapping. Oh, I think I said that from 30 seconds in.

Wow. Mm-hmm. Everybody. Are you impressed? Time passes and Reed starts to process what happened. At some point he said, Quinn, I want you to take a lie detector test. So she took it. And according to the prosecutor, Quinn didn't pass the test.

After that, Reed was like, you know what? I think I want to listen to that tape. I was going to see how long you were going to let me go on making that noise. The answer is too long. That was way too long. So Reed finally listens to the tape. Oh, God. And this may surprise you.

He didn't like what he heard. He was not a fan. He was like, I'm not on her side anymore. I don't believe she was kidnapped. In August of 2010, he was granted a fan. Yeah. He was like, I'm not on her side anymore. I don't believe she was kidnapped. In August of 2010, he was granted a divorce. Oh, my gosh. As part of the divorce settlement, Quinn gets $10,000 a month. Holy shit.

I know. Huh. $10,000 a month. Not too shabby, huh? month. Not too shabby, huh? It's not too shabby. Meanwhile, everyone's gearing up for Quinn's trial. But then in February 2011, Quinn pled no contest to extortion. She said she made that plea because she didn't want a lengthy, salacious trial.

Yasmin pled guilty. I mean, that would have been a salacious trial. It would have been lengthy salacious trial yasmin pled guilty i mean that would have been a salacious trial it would have been a salacious trial i would have been probably would have to the tv barred everybody under 21 from that courtroom yasmin and quinn were both sentenced to time served they were given probation yasmin got six years. Quinn got seven. At his sentencing, the judge told Yasmin, I think the state has concluded you were not the ringleader in this. Yeah. But she didn't

let him off the hook. She said, you were responsible for traumatizing Reed Gray and a lot of other people. What you did was wrong. As for Quinn, the judge put a lot of conditions on her probation the judge said that she needed to get regular substance abuse and mental health evaluations and she needed to stay under a doctor's care wow she also said that quinn couldn't have a

single alcoholic drink for her entire wow was there. Wow, was there belief to be like an alcohol abuse side of this? Before this happened, she'd been in rehab for alcoholism. The judge said she couldn't have any contact with Yasmin. And the judge also said that Quinn couldn't have any violent contact with Reed or his family. Which, duh. Yeah, and I wonder wonder because duh obviously yeah but i wonder if uh the specification is there because like okay so say they're trading off kids right and they get into some kind of argument and uh quinn slaps reed across the face. Under normal conditions, that would not be enough to send her to jail.

But with this specification on her probation, that would. Okay, I see what you mean. Yeah, then all of a sudden she's like, well, goodbye. Yeah. Okay. So Quinn and Yasmin were ordered to each pay $43,000 in overtime costs that law enforcement incurred. I feel like that's probably not even enough. Probably not, but I mean, maybe they could make an argument like,

hey, you guys tracked down the wrong phone number for all this. That's true. And they had to pay some other smaller fees, too. Also, thanks to a special Florida law, the judge decided to withhold an adjudication of guilt. So in Florida, if a judge allows this, you can get probation, pay some fines, but not get a conviction on your record.

It's kind of like an incentive to do well on probation and be productive. So for Quinn, this means that if she wants to go back to being a registered nurse, she can. And I think Yasmin got a similar deal. I know. That's quite the... It's really surprising to me.

Wow. Fucking Florida, man. I know. There are courts. I wonder if that's a law anywhere else. That's interesting. Maybe. I don't know.

Maybe it is. Maybe it's more common than we know. The article I saw presented it as... A rare thing. Well well it just said it was a florida law so i i don't know all right but wow in 2011 quinn made headlines again for violating her probation oh shit what'd she do she fell behind on her fees and she submitted a statement to dateline so that it could be included in the fabulous episode that i watched oh my gosh that's a violation of her probation i guess so wow but well no not according to her lawyer okay so her lawyer was like whoa whoa yes

she fell behind on the payments we're not contesting that but that dateline statement did not violate her she can't keep up on her payments with her ten thousand dollars a month i'm saying that's bullshit that is bullshit um the lawyer was like she didn't include any information about her family she didn't initiate contact with the show they contacted her you know so here's the shitty part she was issued another court date but i couldn't figure out when that occurred and what the resolution was with this yeah um but basically if the judge did find that she violated her parole then she probably would have gotten basically house arrest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. The electric chair. Oh, God. Yeah, in Florida, you go from,

it's not on your record, please behave, straight to the electric chair. Yep. And thanks to me being a total creep, doing a lot of Googling. Did your Facebook stalk? I did. creep oh i'm doing a lot of googling facebook stock i did oh they they both appear to be remarried good for them i don't feel good about being a big creep feel good about it

no because like norman walked in on me while i was doing it you're like i swear i'm looking at porn and he was like i mean you I swear I'm looking at porn! And he was like, I mean, I was clearly looking at Facebook profiles where I was not friends with them. Yeah, he was like,

what are you doing? What's up? He's like, oh, just looking up a lady who says she was kidnapped. Yeah. Yeah.

Felt a little like you. Yeah, I was going to say, that's definitely way more my speed than that's like your mo for sure i'm an expert facebook stalker so um the results are in yeah on uh whether i should change my name to kristin caruso i mean not a single person voted you keep pits. I've, I've had a few polite people be like, this isn't that bad. Yeah.

Which I do appreciate because I didn't realize how weird it would be for people to be like, ew, Kristen pits. You know, it's like, oh, Hey, whoa. That's my name. No, I, I maintain that. I, I, I've never thought it was a bad name, but Kristen Caruso, man. Ooh, it's a bad name, but Kristen Caruso, man. Woo. That's a good one.

I need to talk to you about something. Okay. This podcast started to carry over into my professional life. In a bad way? In a negative manner. Is this the end of the podcast? Yeah, this is where I tell you that we have to end the podcast. Damn.

Okay. The other day, I'm at work, and one of our listeners, my friend Gracie, she is a former co-worker. She came into the salon, and she- Is she the one who, when she reviewed the podcast, called you a fly mamacita? That is correct. Would you like to know the origin of that? There's actually an origin.

So it's a line from like a rap song. Okay. That we happened to have on in the salon one day. Uh-huh. And she kept calling me Miss Brandy, which I hate. Well, you would not do well in the South. Gracie, remember this because sometimes she slips and does it, but she calls me Miss Brandy. I don't like it.

I'm not a preschool teacher. So I was like, stop calling me that. Call me anything else or just call me Brandy. Brandy's great. And she said, I'm going to call you Fly Mama Sita. And then she does. She calls me Fly Mama Sita a lot. Yeah.

Anyway. Okay. So she comes into the salon and she brought me a drink. So she is a loyal listener to the podcast. Okay. And she's like, got a DP for BE. And I was like, oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, thank you.

And so she just sits down at my station or whatever. A few minutes go by. My client comes in. He's a regular. I cut his hair every two weeks. Sits down doing his haircut. And Gracie says something. I can't remember what the conversation we were having, but she was like, do you need another DP? And my client goes, what? Oh, my God. And I go, don't call it that. And Gracie goes, you liked it earlier. Ew.

And my client goes, you liked a DP earlier, earlier huh what the hell goes on in this place and i just like turned bright red why why it was it was very embarrassing well and i've got to say i'm sure no one in the history of time has said, I want another DP. Certainly not unless it was on the script for the porno. Fair point. Very fair point. So I can't have that happening in my professional life, Kristen. I don't even know what to say to that.

I know. Another one of my clients came in the other day and he was like, hey, I listened to your podcast. I'm really enjoying it. And I was like, oh, you know, thanks. That's awesome. And he's up to date. He's listened to all the episodes. That's awesome. Yeah.

And he was like, and I was like, wow, you know, I kind of feel like you know a different side of me now. It's kind of weird. And he's like, yeah, I never heard you swear before. Oh, yeah. And I was like, yeah, because I'm at work. Okay. It's funny that you say this.

Yeah. Because Norman has had people come up to him at conventions and like i didn't even think about how weird this would be for people yeah but for i mean for forever no one has heard my voice because you know i was a writer yeah but at the end of most of his episodes i have a little thing where i say know, I can't even remember what the line is. Like support for game. Oh, support for gaming historian comes from. Well, thank you to the Patreon.

Yeah. So that's the only way people have heard my voice. And now all of a sudden they hear me talking about. Fucking gobs have come. DP. Wow. Fisting. I think people are just a little surprised.

Because Norman's show is so straight-laced. Yeah. And then I have like even more straight-laced. His show is for all audiences. This show. Almost nobody. So to the people that are listening we do make our audience pretty small

to the people who are listening and you know put up with the filth that comes out of our mouths we appreciate you so much if you haven't already find us on social media we're on Facebook. We're on Twitter.

We're on Instagram. Join us there. It's, uh, it's cleaner in those, in those formats because we're forced to be cleaner by the rules of Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. Well, I do think it's funny because like, I think out in real life. Yeah, we're not. Disgusting people, we don't like curse like crazy for yourself. No. OK.

No, but we'd love to have you be part of the conversation. Yes, please. We have a great time interacting with you guys on there. So, yeah. And to the people who have interact with us that left us comments and messages and all that. We love it. Thank you so much. And thank you for episode suggestions messages and all that. We love it. Thank you so much. And thank you for episode suggestions.

Oh, yes. We love that, too. It's awesome. And then to the people who have left us ratings and reviews on iTunes, thank you. Again, it's a great metric for us to see how we're growing. So if you haven't done that already, thank you. I mean, please do it. Was that reverse psychology? It was reverse psychology yeah we don't want to

i'm gonna go ahead and thank you in advance for leaving us an excellent review but thank you for listening and be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics podcast adjourned and now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from Dateline, Jacksonville.com, CNN, and the Florida Bar Association. And I got my info from Crime Library, The New York Times, and The Sun Sentinel. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com.

Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.