Let's Go To Court! - 40: Crimes That Inspired Horror Movies

Episode Date: October 31, 2018

Happy Halloween, and welcome to a very spooky episode of Let’s Go To Court! This week, we discuss crimes so terrifying that they inspired horror films. Kristin starts us off with the most disgusting story of all time. Ed Gein was just a quiet bachelor who lived alone on his isolated Wisconsin farm. But there was more to Ed than met the eye. When police went to question him about a murder, they were horrified by what they discovered. Body parts littered his filthy home. There were lamp shades and chairs made of human skin. There was a collection of noses, and face masks on the walls. Ed’s story is so sickening that it inspired the movies Psycho, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and The Silence of the Lambs. Then Brandi tells us about an entire family who was killed in their sleep. Well… not an entire family. One family member, Ronald DeFeo, lived to tell the tale. A year later, a new family moved into the home. The disturbing story was the basis for the Amityville Horror movies. Brandi recommends the 2005 Amityville Horror remake, starring Ryan Reynolds. She’s a fan of his muscle definition. And his acting. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Ed Gein,” episode of A&E’s biography “Ed Gein Biography,” Wisconsinsickness.com “The Ultimate Ghoul,” Crime Library “10 skulls found in house of horror,” Oshkosh Daily Northwestern “Judge orders Ed Gein back to mental hospital,” The La Crosse Tribune “Order Ed Gein tried on murder, robbery,” The Oshkosh Northwestern “Ed Gein found guilty of murder,” Ironwood Daily Globe “Ed Gein,” Wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Real Life Amityville Horror” by Douglas B Lynott, Cirme Library “Couple and 4 children killed in ‘Amityville Horror’ murders” by Jerry Schmetterer and Daniel Driscoll Ronald Defeo Jr. “The Amityville Horror” wikipedia.org AmityvilleFiles.com

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode I'll talk about the man who inspired Psycho, The Silence of the Lambs, and the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And I'll be talking about the real story behind the Amityville Horror. Behind the Amityville Horror. Brandy, why don't you explain what your idea was for this episode? Let me just start by saying that Kristen is real pissed at me for this idea. That I had the idea for this very special Halloween edition of Let's Go to Court that we would do cases that inspired horror movies.

When I first heard it, I thought you were a genius. I loved the idea. Then you were like, hey, why don't you do that Ed Gein guy? Did you know that he... What? Okay. And the reason that I recommended him to you is because I know you've seen Psycho. Yep.

And I know you don't love horror movies. So I figured you'd seen nothingo. Yep. And I know you don't love horror movies. So I figured you'd seen nothing else. That's pretty much accurate. And I don't know what I was thinking, but I wasn't thinking, oh, great, I'll go research the most horrible thing that I've ever read about in my life. In my defense,

I believe when I recommended him to you that i said uh i don't know a lot about him but i do know that he inspired the characters norman bates and leatherface from the texas chainsaw masker and you thought that that meant like this guy really loved bunnies i i was unprepared for how bad it would be i apologize for that it's not something that i did to you maliciously i promise well i'm gonna read this script to you maliciously we'll see how you like it brandy yes christy people need to wear shirts that's right um most places in public require it no shirt no shoes no service and you can't buy shoes at the gaming historian.com but you can buy shirts they're just ten dollars you can get your classic style or your retro style uh they make great stocking stuffers. Do they not?

Yeah, go ahead and stuff your stocking full of them. Sounds gross. I know, I'm sorry. Alright, well if you'd like to stuff your stocking full of Gaming Historian t-shirts, head on over to the GamingHistorian.com So, I'm really excited for this themed episode

i really enjoy themed episodes give me two minutes to ruin your day okay here's the deal is that i know that you're pissed about your case i picked my own case and i had nightmares about it last night we should also explain right now. So we're recording at a weird time. Yes. Norman is in, well, he's not in Portland right now. He's on the way to the house right now. So while I researched this terribly creepy case, I was alone at home.

And now we're going to be telling each other creepy stories. And you know Norman is going to sneak up on us because he loves to sneak up on us i'm just waiting for his little face to pop up in that window you ready i'm ready okay hit me hit me with your best face mask plain Plainfield, Wisconsin. Saturday, November 16th. It was the start of deer season in 1957. So all the men essentially were out deer hunting. And for the most part, they were doing this to feed their families. So it was a pretty serious deal. Plainfield, small downtown area was pretty much empty because all the men were out in the woods but even then something was off because even the hardware store was closed and that was very unusual the store's owner 58 year old Bernice Warden was nowhere to be found. By that afternoon, people were getting concerned.

They were like, why is her store closed? Pretty soon, her son finishes deer hunting. He gets into his mom's store, and he's horrified by what he sees. The store is a disaster. There's blood on the floor. Police show up. That's a on the floor. Police show up. That's a real missed opportunity. You should have said there was blood everywhere.

I don't think it was. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was completely confined to the floor. Listen, if you want some gore, just sit tight, lady. Sit tight. By the way, I should mention that most of this first part comes from an episode of A&E's biography. Excellent. Police show up and immediately Bernice's son gives them a tip.

He says, hey, just yesterday, Ed Gein was here. He was asking about the price of antifreeze. So let's pause to talk about Ed Gein. By this point, Ed was 51 years old. He was a bachelor. And he lived alone on a very large farm. Some sources said 155 acres. One said 200 acres. Bottom line, it's a big, isolated farm. Excellent. People thought said 200 acres bottom line it's a big isolated farm excellent people thought he was nice

but kind of weird yeah and here's the thing so in this episode that i watched the guys were like oh yeah i kind of liked him he was a hard worker but then they'd be like but the women thought he was weird oh gosh like one woman was like yeah i did not like the way he looked at me so i kind of feel like it depends on who you ask yeah for sure but anyway uh dude had no social skills he was kind of the resident weirdo he was a handyman and he did some babysitting jobs for people so the 51 year old man did babysitting jobs for people i don't know if this was like the 50s where it was like oh let the town weirdo watch our children i don't know what that's fucking weird as shit yes it's very weird it's super. So the sheriff and one other deputy are like,

all right, we'll head over to Ed's place. They go over. The doors are locked. The place didn't have electricity, so everything was pitch black. And they decided, let's kind of peek around in his woodshed, see if we find anything.

Oh, no. They go into the woodshed with their flashlights on, and one of them felt something bump against his shoulder. So he shines his flashlight on it, and it is the body of Bernice Worden. Oh, gosh. She's been decapitated. Oh, gosh. She's been decapitated. Oh, no. She's strung up by her feet. And she's been gutted like a deer.

Oh, my gosh. Disgusting. Ugh. Terrible. At some point in all this chaos, again, there's just two of them there with their flashes. They find Ed. They take him into custody. Then the sheriff and deputy

got a bigger crew to go back to Ed's farm. But again, it's dark. It's cold. They just have their flashlights. They're going through this creepy big old house. Oh my gosh. Why doesn't it have electricity? It's 1957. Didn't have indoor plumbing. Didn't

have electricity. what the fuck that's like the least weird part of this story you're like am i focusing on the wrong thing for sure you're like okay so he decapitated a woman hung her upside down but he didn't have a light oh gosh How did he survive? So they go in. The place is disgusting. Like, dude never cleans, never took out the trash. The place is a gigantic mess.

Police are like, yuck. Then it got worse. They started finding body parts. They found noses. Oh, God. Multiple? Oh, yeah. They found a trash can made out of skin. Oh, my gosh.

They found chairs upholstered out of human skin. Where's he getting all the skin? You're about to find out. Oh, no. They found human masks made out of real human faces that were preserved and hung on the wall like decoration. Yeah, that was like the little bit I knew about him. The mask thing. Yeah. It gets worse.

Oh, gosh. him the mask thing yeah it gets worse oh gosh and i'm gonna tell you just a little bit more but just know that i am leaving so much out because i was like nope done they found a lampshade made out of human skin they found a box of salted vulva. Oh, God! Salted vulva! Yeah, because he was preserving this shit. Oh! They found a belt made of human nipples. Oh, no. Last one.

Is everybody still hanging in there? Oh, this is terrible. This is disgusting. Who told you to do this exactly see this is when i texted you and i was like i hate you forever oh no then an officer found a paper bag he opened it i don't think i want to know saw hair grabbed it is it bernice's head pulled it out it was a fucking head is it bernice's no it's somebody else's and the officers in the room recognized it oh no it was the head of mary hogan so mary was a local bar owner who'd been missing for three years. Three years? Yes. Holy shit. Her head was recognizable after that amount of time.

That's what I was kind of amazed by. And I'm wondering, like, they probably had it packed in salt or something. I mean, yeah, obviously this was not his first rodeo. Clearly he'd done something to preserve it if they were able to recognize it. Well, I mean, he's clearly preserving all of this stuff. So he's probably tanning it like deer hide, right? Yes. Oh! So police are beside themselves.

They are freaking out. They're like, we don't even know how many people this guy has murdered. And where the fuck is he? Oh, he's at the police station. Oh, that's a great bit of information to leave out kristin i said it no you didn't i swear to you i swear to you i said he was at the police i said it like a minute ago i said i said that the police like they the police and the one deputy they found the body hanging upside down yeah and at some point they found ed they him back, and then they came back with a bigger crew. Okay.

Welcome to the podcast, Brandi. I don't know where you've been. I'm sorry I was so focused on the body hung up like a deer. Okay, I'll let that slide then. They keep moving through the house. And then they get to a doorway that has been completely blocked off. Oh, no. Yeah. I don't think they want to see what's behind off. Oh, no. Yeah.

I don't think they want to see what's behind it. They didn't. But they did it anyway. Yep. So it's all boarded up, and they're like, oh, shit. If this is what's outside of the boarded up area... No fucking shit. What the hell is behind this door? What is it?

They get the door open. They shine their flashlights in. And it is a perfectly pristine room. Oh, no. No body parts. No trash. Just a lot of dust. The bed was made.

There's a Bible on the nightstand. Police are like, what? That's odd. Meanwhile, Ed is sitting in his jail cell. And for about 30 hours, he did not say anything. Then the officers start putting pressure on him. They're like, hey, you horrifying monster. We found a bunch of the most disturbing stuff ever at your house. Care to explain? And at that point, Ed was like, yeah, okay. I'll talk. But first, I want a slice of apple pie with a piece of cheddar cheese on top.

Okay, why do people eat it that way? Is that a thing? It's a thing. It sounds disgusting to me. It sounds absolutely disgusting. It's totally a way that people eat it that way is that a thing it's a thing it sounds disgusting to me absolutely it's totally a way that people eat it and i've i thought this was a weird murderer way no it's a way people eat it sounds disgusting you know how i like it scoop of vanilla ice cream yeah that's the proper way great yeah oh you know what i like I like to slab a big hunk of Velveeta onto it. That's freaking weird.

Why cheese? I don't understand. That's the weirdest thing about this guy. I don't think it is. Ed starts talking and what he said surprised them. He said he only murdered Mary Hogan and Bernice Worden. All those other body parts?

He didn't murder all those women. Where'd they come from? Well, you see, Brandy, for the past several years, he'd read the newspaper. He would look at the obituaries. Oh my gosh. To see when people were being buried. Then, when the bodies were still fresh, he'd go to the cemetery, dig up the body, toss the body in his car, and drive it back home oh my gosh yeah gross this guy's gross kristen yeah thanks thanks man at first police didn't believe him they thought this is too far-fetched

so they went and they exhumed two of the bodies that he said he dug up. Yeah. And they weren't there? Nope. Yeah. So they were like, ooh, stealing the truth. Yeah. He eventually admitted that he'd made himself a woman suit. Yeah. Ooh, like Buffalo Bill. Yes.

Yes. So he made like, oh, so gross. He made like a pair of leggings. Yes, so he made like, oh, so gross. He made like a pair of leggings. And then he made like, you know, I guess like a vest thing. And he made himself a vagina that he'd just like slap on there. Oh, no. Man.

Sometimes he'd wear it outside. Then look in the mirror and say, I'd'd fuck me that's a line from silence of the lambs i'm not being gross i promise i'm really glad you clarified that because like if someone didn't know that movie they'd be like what the hell so this source that i saw it said that sometimes he'd wear it outside and dance around in it so i'm kind of like okay that's weird but he's on all these acres so it's not like anybody could probably see him but also it said that sometimes he'd dig a grave in it which oh my god surely not right in his woman leggings and and and top matching top did it did it have boobs well of course it had I mean, like, you're making a woman's suit.

What, are you going to skip the boobs? Oh, I wish I was a man. I'll just skip the dick. I guess he did go as far as to tape on a vagina. Yeah, why? Yeah. How do you? Probably don't need to know.

No. How do you keep them stuffed? Do you think he stuffed them? I have no idea. You don't want to think about it at all? This is so gross. This is the worst thing ever. So he's telling these stories.

And my understanding is when he would tell what he did, it was just like totally normal voice. You know, just like, hey, you know. Then I made the woman suit like you do. And that perfectly preserved room in his house, that was a shrine to his mother. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. So word gets out about these crimes.

And the people of Plainfield were shocked. So, you know, like I said, he babysat some of their kids. That's what it is! The local media reports on it. Pretty soon the national media picks it up. Reporters swarm this town that, I don't know if I've said this already, but they had like a 700, a population of like 700. Holy shit.

So everyone wants to know how the hell does someone do something like this? Yeah. What is wrong with this guy? Yeah. At this point, the court stepped in and they were like, we need someone to evaluate. Uh huh. At this point, the court stepped in and they were like, we need someone to evaluate. Uh-huh. For a month, Ed underwent a psychiatric evaluation. And that's how they found out about his childhood.

Here's what they discovered. Ed Gein was born in 1906 in La Crosse, Wisconsin. He had an older brother named Henry and two shitty parents named Augusta and George. George? Which one's the woman? Augusta. That's a...

I guess that's a woman's... Yeah, Augusta. All right. Again, you're getting weirded out about the wrong thing. Can it be a unisex name? Or do you call... I thought Augustusustus was i guess that's probably true you gotta tack an s on it yeah all right you good yeah okay so george was a violent alcoholic who couldn't keep a job and augusta was a religious nut job like some sources are like

oh she was lutheran and blah blah but like no just religious nut job is fine with me like carrie's mom um it's been so long since i saw that but we'll get into it but yeah pretty damn close i think all right at one point, George owned a small grocery store, which he eventually sold. And that was when they moved out to that big farm in Plainfield, Wisconsin. Augusta loved being out on the farm. Because at this point, she had these two young boys. And she was convinced that the outside world was going to have a negative influence on her sons. Oh, no.

But you take away the outside world, and boom, no bad influence. I don't think that's going to work out well. Nope. She let them go to school, and that was it. Afterward, they came right home to do their chores. If Ed tried to make friends, Augusta would punish him. She didn't want any bad kids hanging around,

influencing her boys. She wanted to be the influencer because she had a very important worldview to share with them. She told Ed and Henry that the world is basically an evil place. That's just how it is. Wow. I guess she was the exception. Was she excluding herself from that? I would imagine.

Wow. She wanted them to stay pure. Hmm. Forever? I imagine so. Oh my gosh. I mean, if all women are instruments of the devil slash prostitutes, better only hang out with the dead ones, am I right?

Yeah. So funny. Augusta was verbally abusive. She was mean. She was controlling. And she was mean and verbally abusive. Yes. You don't often find those two together.

Shut up. you don't often find those two together shut up i hate this so much this is the worst episode i like my old time you wonder oh there was a con job and now this is disgusting so despite all that ed loved his mommy very much. Oh, no. He stayed in school until the seventh grade, and after that, he stayed at home and worked on the farm. Spent more time with mom. Fast forward to 1940. Ed is 34, his dad is 66, and his dad dies of heart failure.

So now it's just Ed, Henry, and Augusta living out on this farm. Then in the spring of 1944, there was a brush fire on the property. Ed and Henry start trying to battle the fire, but then Ed lost sight of Henry. So eventually he got the police. He said, I don't know where my brother is but then he led police right to him oh sketch super sketch i think you need to add a third one to your list there ed for sure some people say that henry's body was bruised and that his death was super suspicious. Duh. But at the time, police didn't think so.

They just wrote it off as a tragic accident. So there was no autopsy. And the medical examiner listed Henry's cause of death as asphyxiation. I saw somewhere, and I want to say this was just Wikipedia, but I saw somewhere that at this time, like Henry was starting to kind of badmouth their mom. Mm-hmm. And he was like interested in a woman.

Ed wasn't going to stand for that. No one talks about my mom. Oh, my gosh. So now it's just. What if Kyla started talking bad about your mom? Would you push her into a brush fire? And I'd be like, I don't know where she is. Oh, maybe she's right here.

Oh, there she is. Don't worry, Kyla, you're safe. So now it's just Ed and Augusta. But it wasn't that way for long. A few months after Henry's death, Augusta had a stroke. She was paralyzed. Ed waited on her. I mean, he did everything for her.

Oh, my gosh. But then she had another stroke, and she died that December. What year is this? 1944. Okay. So Ed took her death. Great. Not great he was fine he you know it's hard parties oh my he spun out so here's he's in this situation where he's afraid of women yeah has like no contact with the outside world his one person in his life just died so he was lonely real lonely he confessed that that's when he started digging up people's graves

and he just wanted to snuggle oh my god that's so gross oh he dug up somewhere around 14 graves. And he admitted that he killed Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden. Although he later said that he couldn't remember killing Mary Hogan, but I'm kind of like, you've got her head in a bag, so I don't give a shit. Ugh.

Ugh. Okay, so now we're getting into... Sorry, what? This is so gross. I hate it so much i feel like people should not like if you're new to the podcast maybe don't start on this one this is so bad is this not the grossest thing you've ever heard yeah it's pretty gross yeah it's pretty awful yeah so he he was charged in the murder and robbery of bernice warden because apparently the cash register is missing too i i kind of feel like at that point who gives a shit yeah but you

know whatever they charged him with that he pled innocent by reason of insanity on january 6th what you think he might have a good shot at this i don't think a real sane person is making a belt out of nipples what if it's the fashion you know you don't want to get left behind that's right oh no i mean think about the things we've worn nothing even close to a nipple belt are you trying to think of something you've worn that's close to a nipple belt well you had that chin coin purse so on january 6 1958 they had hearings to determine whether Ed was competent to stand trial.

A doctor who examined Ed took the stand and said, Okay, guys, this guy has schizophrenia. He's delusional. He thinks he had the power to raise the dead. He had a super weird relationship with his mother. The judge heard all that and he was like, yeah, this guy's not sane. Ed Gein is not fit to stand trial.

So, the judge sent Ed to a psychiatric hospital in Wisconsin. Meanwhile, the looky-loos are all over Plainfield. Yeah. They're going up to Ed's house. They're enthralled.

At one point, there was an auction scheduled to auction off all of his creepy belongings and his house. Yeah, this is disgusting. I mean, there were rumors that someone wanted to buy all this stuff and make it into a tourist destination. But then... You wouldn't go there

no i absolutely would not you would i know you i 100 would go there yuck no i would judge you the whole time why would you go there never seen a belt made out of nipples can't you use your imagination can't you use photoshop i mean like i would really hope that they wouldn't be allowed to display that stuff i mean i can't imagine i i mean it seems weird that somebody would be allowed to buy that stuff but i mean i guess surely that was like at the crime lab and like yeah they were selling off was the couch not made of human skin right probably just the regular lampshades yeah not the skin ones do not google image search this can you see this stuff i saw too much is what i'm telling you i didn't image search it but like in these

articles people these freaks who are writing this stuff are like you'll probably want to see this you'll probably want to see this and no i don't. This theme was not my idea. So then, ten days before the auction, the house mysteriously burned to the ground. Which I love. Yeah. I know you don't love that, but, like, I think that's great. Nobody gets to see the skin couch. Yeah.

No one should be like, no, hard, hard no. I'm going to save you from yourself, Brandy. But like, that's what someone did with what's that Kansas City serial killer, Robert Berdella? Is that his name? He like chained up guys in his basement. Yeah. like chained up guys in his basement yeah and when he was caught like i think some philanthropist in kansas city just bought the house bulldozed it yeah and now it's just i think the house next to it like has the land and it's like their driveway or something which i cannot imagine but yeah btk's house they the city bought and bulldozed.

How do you feel about that? Do you not like that? No, I think it's good because you don't want somewhere that people can come treat it like a shrine. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So the cause of the blaze was unknown. But that city needed a hero. So that didn't completely stop the auction, though, because someone bought his car.

And, you know, his car was what he used to transport these bodies. So the person would take it around to county fairs and charge people like a quarter to come look. The murder mobile? Yep. Step right up, take a look. Oh! Were there, like, weird stains? I'm sure there were. I'm sure there was, like, dirt.

I mean, the guy didn't clean. We know he didn't clean. Oh, my gosh. And, you know, you can't take that to the car wash. Ooh! Ooh! By the way, in the episode of A&E, the guy was talking about, like,

oh, this was at the county fair, where, like, they'd have, you know, the bearded person, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like watching that like it's for sure the bearded lady. Bearded person would be a real letdown. No kidding. It just shows a man with a beard. Step right up. See the freak.

Step right up. See the freak. Meanwhile, at the psychiatric hospital, the staff was fairly impressed by Ed. He was quiet, well-behaved. Then in 1968, so like 10 years after all this went down, Ed's doctors wrote a letter to the court. They said, we now think that he's fit to stand trial. What? There was one big problem.

What is that? Okay, so now we're into the court stuff, and I tried to piece this together using newspapers.com, so I hope I've got it here. Well, I'm going to get in my time machine and go back to the trial and fact check it. Oh, yeah. Why don't you hang out with Ed? Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, you're not quite old enough.

Ooh. He liked to pick women who were like the same age and body type as his mom. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, go now. Don't wait until you're 58. So there was just one big problem. In a February hearing, Ed's attorney said,

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Judge, you need to throw some of this stuff out. Because the police didn't do this whole thing by the book. They called Arthur Sheely to the stand, who was the sheriff at the time of Ed's arrest. They just start peppering him with questions. And for the most part, Arthur was like, I don't know. I don't remember.

It was 10 years ago. At one point, Ed's attorneys asked that he be declared a hostile witness. And the judge denied the motion. Ed's lawyer, Dominic Frenzy, said, Hey, Ed had a right to remain silent. He had the right to an attorney. And both of those rights were violated. Uh-huh.

Sheriff, did you advise my client of his rights before you questioned him? Did you have a search warrant for his property? Did you ask his permission warrant for his property? Did you ask his permission to search his property? And Arthur was like, I don't remember. I don't remember? Yeah, which is a no.

Oh, yeah. Right, I mean. That's definitely a no. Ed's lawyer then questioned the assistant administrator of the state crime lab. He asked some of the same questions. And the guy was like, yeah, I informed him of his rights. Not immediately.

And no, I didn't write down his confession. And yeah, it was just the two of us in the room when he confessed, but his original lawyer knew what was happening. He told Ed to answer my questions and tell the truth, but just not to sign anything. And that's what he did. Mm-hmm. This stuff kind of fascinates me, because by this point, Miranda rights, like, that ruling had happened, I think, two years prior.

Oh, okay. So they were kind of a pretty new thing. Yeah. The Supreme Court had ruled on this, I think in 1966, that police had to give people their Miranda rights. So Ed's attorney is like, hey, in light of that new Supreme Court decision, Ed's confession should be thrown out.

Ultimately, the judge decided that he wouldn't throw out the confession. But Ed's attorneys weren't finished. Well, and I... Yes, the ruling had happened two years earlier, but the arrest had happened ten years earlier. See, that's what I wonder. Like, surely it wasn't retroactive.

It couldn't be. Or they'd just be like, opening the floodgates in the prison. All right, you're free to go. Yeah. Don't kill anybody. And I, you're free to go. Yeah. Don't kill anybody. And I wonder if maybe. Or wear their skin.

Yeah, because he killed two people. Well, I bet he killed more than two people. I bet he probably did, too. Ed's attorneys weren't finished. They took this thing all the way to the Wisconsin Supreme Court. So they said, we want you to dismiss these charges on the grounds that the warrants that were used against our client were unconstitutional. They said that the warrants were issued by a district attorney and not a magistrate, which is against the new rules.

Was it against the rules in 1957? You sound like the prosecutor. So the assistant attorney general is like, are you kidding? The new rules do not apply to this old case. And oh, by the way, Supreme Court, if you dismiss these charges on this basis, you know what I'm going to do? I'm just going to make new warrants. And then we're going to take him in again and go through this whole thing again. This is not going to change anything. The Supreme Court sided with the prosecution, but they didn't say why.

By this point, Arthur Sheely, who was the sheriff when Ed was arrested, has died. Wow. So Ed's defense attorneys return to court. And this time they have claims that the sheriff physically abused Ed when he was in custody. Really? And very believable claims. Really? Yeah.

So three former deputies all testified that Arthur shoved Ed against a brick wall. Wow. Two of them said that Ed never admitted to shooting Bernice. The defense is again like, you've got to throw this out. They weren't doing this by the book. They didn't have a search warrant when they first entered his home. This whole thing has to be. Yeah.

But the assistant attorney general was like hello when bernice wasn't in her store that constituted an emergency situation and because of that situation officers are legally allowed to enter the home and search for her. Which makes sense. And I totally agree with you. Yeah. That was an emergency situation. And I do want to stop and say, like, I feel so sorry for this sheriff. Obviously, I don't, you know, it's not good to be abusive to someone who's in custody. But I just cannot imagine, you're a small town Wisconsin sheriff,

you think you know what your job is, and then all of a sudden, you go into this dark house. Freaking house of horrors. Yes. Yeah. And then you come back, and this little shit's eating apple pie

with a slice of cheddar cheese on top and not talking. Mm-hmm. You would have roughed him up, too? I think it would have to... For me, it would have to be a thing where, like, if you've gone in there and seen that stuff, you can't talk to the guy.

Mm-hmm. Or at least you need to cool down. I mean, it just would be impossible. Yeah. Ultimately, Judge Robert Goldmar ruled that any statements ed made about the crime could not be used in court wow in other words the confession doesn't count which i think that was a good ruling i mean clearly that was not a voluntary confession yeah but he said you can use all the evidence that was found on the farm because that was an emergency situation ed's trial began in november his trial for the death of bernice warden lasted

nine days they only they only focused on this one yeah i feel like they figured you know they didn't want to bother with the expense and all that of another charge. So at the request of the defense, I think this dude had some pretty good defense attorneys. They said, we don't want a jury trial. We just want to be heard in front of Judge Robert Goldmar. The defense also requested a split trial where first the judge rules on whether Ed is guilty of the crime. Then he rules on whether Ed was sane at the time of the murder.

Which I did not know that was a thing. Yeah, I didn't know that was a thing either. I wonder if it's still a thing. Probably. Right? I imagine a lot has changed since 1960-whatever. Eight. That's 50 years ago. Yeah, okay. So pretty early on, the judge dismisses the robbery charge.

He's like, there's not enough evidence here to say that the cash register found on Ed's property came from the hardware store. Really? Yeah, that's kind of how I feel, too. There is a cash register missing, And then one found at his home. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. No, right. Yeah.

Doesn't seem like that big of a stretch. No. And I'm, I don't, I don't. Whatever. So many things to say. Yeah. And he's like, but nice try defense. I'm not dismissing the murder charge.

We're going to keep on trucking. Ed testified in his own defense. What did he say? He said that it had all been an accident oh he'd accidentally dug up those graves and accidentally made lampshades and upholstered a couch and well he's not on trial for all that he's on trial for the murder of bernice warden okay so he accidentally decapitated her. And then hung her up like a deer. Yeah. Hate it when that happens.

Don't tell you how many times I've accidentally done that. He said he'd been in the hardware store examining a.22 caliber rifle. Oh, and he blew her head off? Yeah. When he accidentally discharged. Horrible mistake. And he couldn't remember

what happened next. Okay. I don't think that's a great story, Ed. Yeah. The prosecution was like, no way. They called an expert witness who said that if the murder had happened the way that Ed said it did,

then several racks of merchandise would have had to have been knocked down because they would have been in the line of the shot. You know, if he was truly just like, you know, had it up by his waist and was like, oh, oops. But the defense was like, you guys know it wouldn't. Come on, guys. Leave Ed alone. eyes no it wouldn't come on guys leave it alone so he likes a belt with nipples on it let's celebrate our differences finally as the trial came to a close the judge asked the defense and the prosecution hey what kind of verdict are you hoping for?

I think this is super weird. What? We were hoping for a not guilty. So the defense is like, well, we would like either second degree murder or homicide by reckless conduct. I mean, it's like they're at the buffet and they're just like, I would like this. Yeah, I'll take some of the, uh, Yelp. Yelp? So the prosecution said first degree murder or accidental death.

What? That is exactly my reaction. Okay, I want the chop thing or... Yeah, I'll take the filet mignon or... Spam. Some of that dog food over there. What the fuck? So the judge thought it over,

and he declared Ed guilty of murder in the first degree. Wow. In his decision, Judge Golmar said, the court does not accept the defendant's story. It just doesn't ring true to me. Mm-hmm. He said, look, Ed didn't check her pulse. He didn't run and get help.

He didn't try to get a doctor. In short, he didn't do the things that you do when you cause an accident. Yeah. And also, Ed had a lot of experience around guns. He's not the type to just accidentally fire. Accidentally discharge, yeah. After that trial, they had the sanity hearing.

During that hearing, two psychiatrists testified. One said that Ed, quote, could not conform his conduct to the requirements of the law. They both said that Ed was legally insane. Wow. Well, can you imagine? No, seems like a good guy. Yeah, I think he seems pretty normal.

Ultimately. I'd like to get some tips on his trash can making. Oh, God. Jesus. So ultimately, the judge found him not guilty by reason of insanity wow then he sent ed to the state hospital for the criminally insane ed spent the rest of his life there he died in his 70s and he was buried next to his mother so here's this other thing I found out. Apparently, people, creepers, would come up to his grave and they would chip away parts of the stone

to take as souvenirs. And then finally, someone just took the whole damn thing. Oh my gosh. Now, it's been recovered, but they haven't put it back on. Wow. So it's an unmarked grave, but I mean, people know where it is because it's next to Augusta. Ooh. So that's the man who inspired the book and movie Psycho, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre,

Massacre, and Silence of the Lambs. Oh my gosh. And it's the worst story ever. By the way, he was also known as the Mad Butcher of Plainfield. Ooh. Yeah. The Mad Butcher.

Did you enjoy that? No. I fucking hated it. I mean, yeah, I thought it was really interesting. Yeah. Just the skin really gets you, huh? Yeah, I mean, it's just so i think i think it just shows that i could never be a police officer because if it's dark the person doesn't have electricity

and there's like bowls of skin everywhere yeah i'd be like guys hey how about we come back in in the morning and then I quit that night and I leave well I I think you did a great job with that Kristen that was really not your thing and I apologize for that I wish that I could have found a horror movie based on a bunny loving con man. Do you need to tinkle? No, I don't. I am gonna get a little more water though. Oh, we're in low. I'll be hydrated because of all that pizza. Where the hell is Norman?

I don't know was did he already land and everything well i mean i assumed he landed what you guys don't you don't share his location you can't check in in on him oh no i find that creepy okay i can tell you where zach is right now let's see where is he seems to be at our home. Did I ever tell you about the time my mom shared her location with me? No. Okay. So my mom is one of those people who thinks that, you know, Google is creepy.

Your phone knows too much about where you are. Like she's been very clear with me on multiple occasions. She doesn't like how much we're monitored. Yeah. One day I'm sitting around eating some soup at Panera. And all of a sudden I get this thing that says Sherry Pitts wants to share her location with you. I'm like, what?

And it shows that my parents are like driving out of town. So you and I are like, what? And it shows that my parents are like driving out of town. So you and I are like, she's been kidnapped. This is how she's telling me. OK. Yeah. I love discussing this with you because I feel like any normal person would be like, why would you think? That is exactly. I was like, mom would never do this.

We've had this conversation. Yeah. Clearly, she's in the back seat. The kidnapper is in the front seat. She can't make the phone call. She's letting me know she's been kidnapped. Yes. I continued to eat the soup because I was pretty sure I was wrong.

After I finished, I gave her a call. She was fine. She was fine. She was fine. Just found fine. She was fine. Just found a fun new feature on her phone. Yeah. Excellent. All right, are you ready?

Mine's going to be really uplifting after that. Okay, is yours better or worse than mine? It's less gruesome. I'll settle for that. Yeah, I'll go with that. Wait, like less gruesome via a nipple suits no nipple belts feeling that's pretty good yeah got that going for me um i want to start off by saying thank you to lindsey on twitter for tweeting us this uh

recommendation oh yeah this case and then also say that I pulled the majority of this from an article for Crime Library by Douglas B. Linott and from AmityvilleFiles.com. Okay. It's 6.30 p.m. on November 13th, 1974. We're at Henry's Bar in Amityville, Long Island, New York. Bobby Kelski was sitting at the bar when his best friend, Ronald Butch DeFeo Jr. burst through the door. Please, you've got to help me. I think my mother and father are shot, he shouted before falling to his knees, crying. Oh my God. Bobby and the other bar patrons gathered around Butch to calm him and get more information.

When Butch finally managed to quell his sobs, he and Bobby, along with four other bar patrons, piled into his 1970 Buick Electra 225 and drove to the DeFeo home on Ocean Avenue. Wait, why didn't they call the police? Great question. Okay, okay. When they arrived at the home, they entered through the unlocked front door and found the house dark and quiet,

except for the barking of the family dog, Shaggy, who was tied up in the kitchen. Shaggy was a sheepdog. I think that's really cute. Was Shaggy harmed in any way nope okay i could have told shaggy was totally fine thank you very much bobby kelski took the lead on inspecting the house and a couple of the other men followed him upstairs to the master bedroom.

You are kidding me. So they go in. It's dark. They're like, let's see if we can find any dead bodies here. This is why I hate horror movies. Because I'm like, absolutely not. Call the police. Let them poke around with their flashlights.

So they get upstairs to the master bedroom and they flip on the light. No. And they are met with a gruesome scene. There before them were the bodies of Ronald DeFeo Sr. and Louise DeFeo. In the bedroom across the hall, they found the bodies of Mark and John DeFeo, Butch's younger brothers. Oh, no. Bobby rushed outside to find Butch, who was still distraught and crying and he confirmed what butch had believed since before he ran into the bar his parents were in fact dead and so were

his brothers another one of the men joey yeswit ran to the kitchen and placed one of the most frustrating calls to the police that i have ever heard. Oh, no. Here is part of it. Okay. Suffolk County Police, may I help you? We have a shooting here. Sir, what's your name? Joey Yeswit.

Can you spell that? What? Yeah, Y-E-S-W-I-T. your phone number i i i don't know if it's here there's i i don't have a phone number here okay where are you calling from uh it's in amityville call up the amityville police it's right off of uh ocean drive or ocean avenue in amityville. Oh, God. Austin? Ocean Avenue. What the? Ocean, Ocean, Ocean Avenue? Off of where? It's right off of Merrick Road. Ocean Avenue. Oh, Ocean Avenue and Merrick Road. What's the problem sir oh my god there's a shooting it's a shooting operator there's there's a shooting anybody hurt oh why did she care

about spelling his name no shit right so she's like is anybody hurt and he's like uh yeah everybody's dead and the operator goes what do you mean everybody's dead oh my god okay here's what happened she had been an administrative assistant for like 20 years she's like what's your name why are you calling me how you spell it and it's her first day as a dispatcher she has no idea what's happening so jo Joey Yeswit says, I don't know what happened. This kid came running into the bar. He says everybody in the family was killed and we came down here. Yep.

At this point, the operator put Joey on hold. What? Yeah. No. And handed the phone over to a police officer. Oh, my God. So the police officer gets on the phone. Jesus.

Police officer. Hello? Joey. Hello? Police officer. god so the police officer gets on the phone jesus police officer hello joey hello police officer what's your name oh my god my name is joe yeswit police officer george edwards oh my god no i hate this this is so stupid joe yeswit. Police officer. How do you spell that? Oh my, what the hell? What? Was it his first day too?

I just, how many times do I have to tell you? Y-E-S-W-I-T. Police officer, where are you at? Oh my God. I'm on Ocean Avenue. What's the number i don't have a number here there's no number on the phone police officer what's the number on the house oh my god dude i don't even know that and police officer where are you at ocean? Ocean Avenue and what? In Amityville. Call up the Amityville police and have someone come down here. They know the family. Police officer.

Amityville? Joey. Yes. Amityville. Police officer. Okay, now tell me what's wrong. Oh my, oh my God. I don't know. A guy came running into the bar and said his mother and father are shot. We ran down to his house and everybody in the house is shot. I don't know how long they've been this way.

I, uh. Well, thank God no one's clinging to life. No shit, no shit. Oh, police officer. Well, thank God no one's clinging to life. No shit. Because I mean. No shit. Police officer. What's the address of the house? Are you kidding me? Joey, hold on.

Let me go look at the number. Hold on. Yeah, yeah, like fine. You win. At this point, Joey ran out of the house, read the address, and then came back to the phone. Oh my God. Was he scared he was gonna get shot while he was out there i mean you don't know you don't know what's going on right yeah 112 ocean avenue amityville police officer is that amityville or north amityville

joey jesus take the wheel amityville right off merrick road. Police officer. Okay. What's your phone number? Oh, my. Oh, my. This kid deserves a medal. Oh, shit. I don't have one. There's no number on the phone.

Again, this is not my house. A guy came into a bar with a story, and here I am. Police officer. All right. Where are you calling from public phone oh no i'm calling from the house but i don't see a number on the phone police officer you're at the house itself dude yep police officer how many bodies are there i don't know i think they said four police officer there's four joey yes despite how frustrating this call was amityville police were on the scene within 10 minutes.

That is the shock of a lifetime. Seriously. Officer Kenneth Gaguski was the first to arrive. When he pulled up to the house, he found a group of men in the yard. At the center was Butch, sobbing uncontrollably. My mother and father are dead, he blubbered to the police officer. Officer Gaguski entered the house, climbed the stairs to the second level, and

located the bodies of Ronald, 44, Louise, 42, and 12-year-old Mark and 9-year-old John. When he came back downstairs, he went to the kitchen to use the phone to call the deaths in, and Butch was sitting at the kitchen table still crying.

When Gaguski reported that four of the five residents of the home were deceased from apparent gunshot wounds, Butch interrupted to tell him that he also had two sisters who lived in the home. Oh, no. Gaguski set the phone down and went back upstairs, this time accompanied by another officer who had joined him at the scene. They searched for the two girls. They found 18-year-old Dawn in a third bedroom on the second floor and 13-year-old Allison in a bedroom on the third floor. They were both dead. But there was so much blood that their bullet wounds

weren't as easily discernible as the other victims in the house. The medical examiner would later determine that all six victims had been shot to death with a.35 caliber pump action rifle while they slept in their beds. Well, that's not possible. Why? why well they couldn't have all been asleep with that gun going off and then they're just like waiting in their beds interesting to come be shot that's an interesting idea well it's an obvious idea um ronald and louise are you gonna talk to me or not? I'm going to get there. I'm going to get there. Ronald and Louise had each been shot twice, while the rest of the victims were shot once.

Forensic evidence showed that both Louise and Allison were likely awake when they were shot. Everyone else was asleep. So Louise was the second to be shot. It's believed that when she heard her husband shot, who was lying next to her, that she woke up and then was immediately shot. Allison was the one on the third floor, the farthest from the others. And she was the last to be killed. And it's believed that she awoke when the shooter came into her room and was awake when she was killed.

But it is believed that the rest of the family members were asleep when they were shot. How? I mean, were they in soundproof rooms? I mean, it's interesting that you're not the only one that has questions about this. There's conspiracy theories about that. But this is the believed turn of events that everybody but those two were asleep when they were shot. Turn of events that everybody but those two were asleep when they were shot. Okay.

It was also determined that the family had been dead approximately 16 hours by the time they were discovered, putting the time of death at around 3 a.m. on November 13th. As the only surviving member of the DeFeo family, Butch was quickly interviewed by detectives. They first interviewed him at the kitchen table of the home. The bodies of his dead family members just feet away. It was here where they first asked Butch if there was anyone he could think of that would do this to his family. He'd paused only a moment before offering up a name, Louis Fellini. Fellini was a notorious mafia hitman whom Butch said had a grudge against the family due to an argument that took place two years earlier. With Butch as the lone survivor of this grisly crime scene, they became concerned that if it really was a targeted mafia attack, that Butch could still be in danger.

So they moved him first from the house to the temporary command post they'd set up at the neighbor's house. And then they moved him to police headquarters. Butch gave police a signed written statement that night that detailed his whereabouts for the day. He told them he'd been home the night the murders had occurred. He'd stayed up until 2, watching a television program, and then slept for a couple of hours. When he awoke at 4 a.m., he'd walked past the bathroom and heard a toilet flush.

Unable to go back to sleep, he decided to go on into work. So at the time he gave this statement, the time of death had not yet been determined. Just keep that in mind. Yeah, yeah. He told them he'd only stayed at work until noon when he'd run out of things to do. When he'd run out of things to do at work, he left and went to visit his friend Bobby and his girlfriend Shelly. He told police that he had thought it was odd his father had not come into work. They worked together at Butch's grandfather's Buick dealership.

So he'd made several attempts throughout the day to call home and check on him. Some of these attempts were made in front of Bobby and Shelly. But no one ever answered at the house. In his statement, Butch told police that he was concerned when no one answered the phone. But not concerned enough to keep him from drinking and doing drugs with his friends all afternoon. He admitted in this statement that he used heroin that afternoon with his friends. Okay, well, that shocks me. Yeah. used heroin that afternoon with his friends okay well that shocks me yeah but i guess if it's like you don't want to admit you murdered your whole family you admit you used heroin right sure

like surely no one would lie about that finally around six o'clock that evening he'd gone home to check on things having gone the whole day without being able to reach anyone and that's when he discovered gone home to check on things, having gone the whole day without being able to reach anyone. And that's when he discovered the bodies and gone to the bar for help. It was after three in the morning by the time police finished questioning Butch for the night, and they set him up with a cot in an office for him to sleep on for the night. Meanwhile, back at the house on Ocean Avenue, though, the investigation was in full swing, and detectives had just made a startling discovery. In Butch's room, detectives located a

rectangular cardboard box labeled Marlin.35 caliber rifle. They knew by now that this was the murder weapon, but they'd been unable to locate it to this point. The box was empty, though. But detectives thought it was no coincidence that Butch owned the exact gun that was used in the shooting. By this time, detectives had also interviewed Butch's best friend, Bobby, and learned that Butch had a tumultuous relationship with his father. He felt that he was too much of a disciplinarian and that due to this, father and son had come to blows in arguments multiple times over the years. So he's going to kill his whole family because he doesn't like his dad? In detectives' minds, that was it the final piece

of the puzzle they weren't looking for some mafia hitman they'd had their guy all along he'd placed himself at the home at the time of the killings he owned the exact gun that was used in the shootings though they still hadn't located. He had a tumultuous relationship with his father. He'd admitted in his statement to using drugs that night, and he'd intentionally feigned concern in front of his friends, calling home multiple times to check on his family in an attempt to add a layer of concern to his scheme. add a layer of concern to his scheme. It was 8.45 the following morning when detectives shook Butch awake on his cot. Did you find Fellini? He asked. But detectives informed him they weren't there

about Fellini. They were there to read him his rights. Detectives questioned him again. This time, they laid out what they thought had happened. They believed that Butch had walked from room to room that night, killing his entire family in a period of 15 minutes. Whoa. Starting with his father and finishing with Allison. Butch tried to concoct a story on the spot that would explain why he had been in the house at the time of the murders. He told police that he was awoken that night by Fellini pressing

a pistol to his head. Okay. And that another man had been in the house as well. And that they'd forced him to go room by room with them as they murdered his family in front of him. And oops, forgot to mention all of that. Yeah. But that story quickly fell apart when he implicated himself describing for detectives how he picked up the spent cartridges and other evidence from the scene and discarded it in a storm drain. Note here. Detectives were able to go to this storm drain as described and recover the evidence he told them he dumped there. Wow. It was actually there.

Well, because it was the Fellini guy and his little friend. Yeah. Among this evidence was the rifle, ammunition, and a holster for a pistol, though no pistol was ever recovered. And no pistol was used in the crime. Wait a minute, said one of the detectives when Butch laid out how he'd picked up the discarded cartridges and stashed the evidence in a storm drain. Why did you pick up the cartridges if you had nothing to do with it? Yes, the story was crumbling fast, and detectives kept poking holes in it.

Finally, they said, It didn't happen that way, did it, Butch? Butch put his head in his hands and said, Give me a minute. I gotta think of something. They were never there, were they, Butch? Detectives asked. Fellini and that other They were never there, were they, Butch? Detectives asked. Fellini and that other guy were never there.

No, Butch finally confessed. He said, it all started so fast. Once I started, I just couldn't stop. It went so fast. Wow. Butch DeFeo's trial began on October 14th, 1975, just 11 months after the murders. Assistant District Attorney Gerard Sullivan was tasked with leading the prosecution, and though he had Butch's confession and the murder weapon had been positively ID'd as Butch's rifle,

he knew getting a conviction would be no easy task. Butch was a pathological liar, and he knew the defense strategy was going to be to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. But he believed that Butch DeFeo was not insane at all. Rather, he was a violent, cold-blooded killer whom he intended to put away for good. In his opening statement, Sullivan told the jury, Ladies and gentlemen, each of you will be changed to some degree by this case. You will leave this courtroom after rendering a verdict, perhaps a month from now, carrying with you an abiding memory of the horror that occurred in that house at 112 Ocean Avenue in the dead of night 11 months ago. What was the address again? 112 Ocean Avenue. How do you spell your name? Bear in mind that the evidence of how these crimes were carried out is as important to your verdict as the proof of who carried them out.

Much of the evidence of how will bear upon the issue of whether you will excuse the defendant for his action by reason of some mental disease or defect. If you will keep your minds open, carefully evaluate and assess all the proof, I'm confident that at the end of this case, you will come back into this courtroom and find Ronald DeFeo Jr. guilty of six counts of murder in the second degree. Just as the prosecution predicted, Butch DeFeo's defense attorney, William Weber, rested his case completely on the claim that he was insane at the time of the killings. In pretrial hearings,

Weber had tried to get the case dismissed altogether on the basis that he had been denied counsel prior to interrogation by police and that he had been in a state of duress when he the actual confession was given these claims did not stand up on scrutiny though and weber was left with no choice but to argue that his client was insane the prosecution's strategy to fight against this argument was to call witnesses that would paint butch as a three-dimensional human being rather than just someone who was sane or insane they called a number of witnesses including police officers and detectives who had worked the case and assorted relatives and friends

of butch's the testimony of the police and detectives was used to depict just how brutal this crime was this was his family that was shot to death in their beds. The testimony of the friends was used to humanize Butch and show that he was someone with a history of violence capable of murdering six defenseless family members.

The biggest help to the prosecution's case, though, would come from a witness not called by them at all rather it was someone the defense had put on the stand William Weber called Butch DeFeo to testify in his own defense why would you do that I have no idea that just sounds like a ridiculous thing to me and when you're especially in a case like this and what's the aim yeah to prove that he's insane yeah and just to get him to say all kinds of crazy stuff yes oh my so let's let's hear a little bit of it. Okay, okay. Holding a picture of Louise DeFeo dead in her bed, Weber asked, Is this your mother? Butch replied, No, sir.

I told you before and I'll tell you again. I've never seen this person before in my life. What? What? Right? life what what right weber then showed butch a picture of his father's body and asked butch did you kill your father butch said did i kill him i killed them all yes sir i killed them all in self-defense. Oh. Okay.

The jury gasped at the courtroom confession. Yeah, because it was six people, right? Yeah. He killed six people in self-defense. Including a nine-year-old? Uh-huh. Okay, Butch. The jury gasped at this courtroom confession but weber continued on unfazed and asked butch why he had done such a thing yeah as far as i'm concerned he said if i didn't kill my family they were going

to kill me and as far as i'm concerned what i did was self-, and there was nothing wrong with it. When I got a gun in my hand, there's no doubt in my mind who I am. I am God. Oh. It's not great. It's kind of leaning towards the insane side a little bit there. To some, this testimony seemed like proof that Butch was a deranged lunatic with a fleeting grasp on reality. But the prosecutor felt that this was just a charade, another example of him being a pathological liar.

And he was ready for cross-examination. Oh, my God. Sullivan knew that he would not be able to get a straight story from Butch about what had gone on in the house that night. But he believed he could goad him into revealing the twisted sense of enjoyment he got from killing his entire family. Did you feel good at the time of the murders? He asked. Yes, sir. I believe I felt very good.

Butch responded. Is that because you knew they were dead because you'd shot each of them i don't know why i can't answer that honestly do you remember being glad i don't remember being glad i remember feeling very good what oh the prosecution's cross-examination then took on a provoking tone not by accident that ended with butch threatening the prosecutor's life. Oh, my God. You think I'm playing? Butch said. If I had any sense, which I don't,

I'd come down there and kill you right now. Okay. If I had any sense, which I don't. Yeah. I mean, that's clearly someone trying to sound insane, right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

So the case went to the jury on November 19, 1975, a year and six days after the murders. Both sides knew their case hinged on how jurors saw the defendant and which of the expert witness testimony they found most credible as both the prosecution and defense had offered up their own experts to explain why butch was or wasn't insane the jury's first vote was 10 to 2 in favor of conviction yeah the two holdouts were uncertain about butch's mental state at the time of the killing. The jurors deliberated and asked to review certain evidence, including transcripts of Butch's testimony. Then, on November 21, 1975, they returned a guilty verdict on all counts. Ronald Butch DeFeo Jr. was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison for each of the six counts. He is currently held at the Sullivan Correctional Facility in Fallsburg, New York.

All of his appeals and parole bids to date have been denied. He is 67 years old. He is 67 years old. On December 18th, 1975, George and Kathy Lutz, along with their three small children, moved into the home at 112 Ocean Avenue. It had been just over a year since the murders and less than a month since butch's conviction what 28 days later the lutz has left the home claiming to have been terrorized by paranormal phenomena while living there okay i don't believe in no ghosts but what the hell were you why are they moving in there yes it was apparently a great deal oh i bet because uh six people had just been murdered there oh did that take the

value of the property down a notch see you gotta bulldoze these places otherwise weirdos are like let's move in honey yeah weird yeah they said that they knew of the murders but they were not deterred by them at all to buy this house the lutz's story was the basis for the novel the amityville horror by jay anson released in 1977 which purported itself to be the true story of their time there it is the basis for the movie of the same name which was released in 1979 starring james brolin and margot kidder the movie spawned a fucking huge line of sequels nine in total i believe but they had little to do with the original story. And a remake was released in 2005, starring an extremely jacked Ryan Reynolds

and Melissa George as George and Kathy Lutz. Ryan Reynolds was so hot in this remake. I wish people could see your eyes right now. Super fucking hot. Brandi, you got a little drool right here. could see your eyes right now super fucking hot randy you got a little drool right here the lutz's did not work directly with jay anson but they did submit around 45 hours of tape recordings of them describing the things that went on in the house and he used those as his source material for the book uh yeah that's pretty good source material. Here are a few of the things they described happening in the home. George would wake up around 3.15 every morning and would go out

to check on the boathouse. Later, he would learn that this was the estimated time of the DeFeo killings. Kathy had vivid nightmares about the murders and discovered the order in which they occurred and the rooms where they took place the lutch children also began sleeping on their stomachs in the same way the dead bodies of the defao family had been found well that's not that weird yeah i agree that that one's not that weird kind of lame all of a sudden they were sleeping on their stomachs no one does that george discovered a small hidden room about four feet by five feet behind shelving in the basement the walls were painted red and the room did not appear in the

blueprints of the house okay well, well that is scary as fuck. The room came to be known as the Red Room. This room had a profound effect on their dog, Harry, who refused to go near it and cowered as if sensing something ominous. The Lutzes' five-year-old daughter, Missy, developed an imaginary friend named Jody, a demonic pig-like creature with glowing red eyes. In the early morning hours of Christmas Day 1975, George looked up at the house after checking on the boathouse and saw Jody standing behind Missy at her bedroom window. Ew, no. When he ran up to her room, he found her fast asleep

with her small rocking chair moving slowly back and forth. No, no, no. Creeped out. Can't do it. When the Lutzes became certain that there was something wrong with the home, they attempted to have it blessed on two separate occasions there's not enough blessings folks when they didn't work they made the decision to leave the home they were only there for 28 days well that's 28 days longer than

i'd want to be there that's their accounts of what went on while they were in the home are believed by many to be a hoax made up for financial gain okay the next owner of the home said that there were no signs of physical damage there was a next owner of that home yeah the home still stands today and people live in it oh my what it's a beautiful home i don't care how beautiful it is and so none of the other owners of this home in the 40 years since this has happened have experienced anything in the home well yeah I totally believe that this was for financial gain. I mean, that's such a stunt to be there for 28 days. Yeah. So the book lays out a bunch of actual damage that occurs to the house, like locks being broken and stuff like that.

The person who purchased the home from the Lutzes said that there was no such damage in the home and that the fixtures that were there were all original. It wasn't like they'd replaced things. Yeah. They said that they'd experienced no strange activity at all other than sightseers coming to the house after all the success of the book and the movie. Yeah.

George and Kathy maintained that their accounts were mostly true with only a small amount of embellishment. And in June of 1979, they even took polygraph tests to prove it. The tests were administered by Chris Gugas and Michael Rice, who were at the time among the top five polygraph examiners in the country. The results showed that the Lutzes were being truthful. But I think all that that says is that they had convinced themselves that it was true. Sure. Right. Well, and I think it's probably fairly easy to pass a polygraph. But yeah, I can believe that. I can believe that it's a hoax, and I can believe that they believed it. Mm-hmm. One of the most outspoken people around the book calling it a hoax was William Weber, Butch DeFeo's defense attorney.

Really? He claimed that he knew it was a hoax because he'd cooked up the idea right alongside George and Kathy over several bottles of wine one night. What? Yes. George and Kathy Lutz filed a lawsuit against William Weber, along with a host of other people, including writers, clairvoyants who visited the home, and various publications who had printed stories about the hauntings, alleging misappropriation of their names for trade purposes, invasion of privacy, and mental distress. They sought $4.5 million in damages. Whoa, okay, that's too much.

Weber, along with two others named in the suit, countersued for $2 million, alleging fraud and breach of contract. The cases against the publications were dismissed quickly due to lack of evidence, but the rest of the case was heard in New York court in 1979 by judge Jack B. Weinstein. Ultimately, he dismissed the Lettces case saying, based on what I have heard, it appears to me that to a large extent, the book is a work of fiction, relying in large part upon the suggestions of Mr. Weber.

Wow. Kathy Lutz died of emphysema in 2004 at the age of 57. George Lutz called the 2005 remake of the movie Drivel and sued the makers for breach of contract, defamation, and libel. Oh, come on. He objected particularly to the scene in the film where the male lead, played by that super jacked Ryan Reynolds that I mentioned earlier. Did he not enjoy being a big hair?

I mean, he should have fucking loved that he was being played by the hottest Ryan Reynolds that's ever been captured on film he's super hot in this movie okay like you know that like that like hip thing you have been into that hip thing since middle school i've never understood it it is so defined in this movie you and that thing i i'm getting like flashbacks. I'm getting NSYNC flashbacks right now. I fucking love that. I know you do. I know.

I don't get it. That and then just like a really chiseled jaw. Those are the things that I like. Well, everyone's on board for the chiseled jaw. Nobody else likes the. I'm not saying nobody else. Likes the hip thing. I'm not saying nobody else.

I'm just saying like it's so down the list. No. Oh, I like a good nobody else. I'm just saying, like, it's so down the list. No. Oh, I like a good big toe. No, this is not the same as a big toe. This is like, here's an arrow. To what? The big toe? Pointing to where the magic happens.

So, George Lutz is pissed about this remake. He objects to a scene where Ryan Reynolds, playing George Lutz, is shown killing the family dog with an axe. The film also shows the George Lutz character building coffins for members of his own family. The defamation claim was dismissed by a Los Angeles court in November of 2005, while the other issues related to the lawsuit remained unresolved when George

Lutz passed away due to heart disease in 2006 at the age of 59. Wow. He and his wife both died young. Yeah. Probably those 28 days that they spent probably took years off their lives. Yeah. So I just want to wrap up with a quote, one from Kathy and one from George, about their experiences here. So first from Kathy.

She said this in 2000. Some people have called our testimony about Amityville a hoax. There is nothing I could say to them. There is nothing I could say to them. There is nothing I could show them that would be new evidence that this is the truth. It is the truth. It is my testimony. It is where I came from. And to judge another's testimony, not having experienced it, not having gone through it or have been touched by it, you don't have the right to. having gone through it or have been touched by it, you don't have the right to. Yours is just an opinion. And that opinion doesn't hold water. Wow. And then in 2002, George Lutz said, it is my prayer that everyone in this room never go through such a thing. But if you know someone that does, the hardest thing for those people

is the loss of being able to communicate with anyone else about it. Not being able to find anyone that can intelligently help them. It's not talked about. It's not understood. And when it happens to you, you become an alien to everyone else.

I mean, both of those things are pretty touching. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that these people really believed that this happened to them. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

So that's the true story of the Amityville Horror. I have to look up that house now. It's beautiful. Do you need me to tell you the address again? 112 Ocean Avenue. Amityville. Oh, wow. Hang on.

Yeah, that's a beautiful house okay so are you looking at the one that do you see the one that has the half moon windows on it or do they have normal windows on the side of it oh i i'm looking at one with half okay so those have been replaced those are like. Those really became an icon of this when this happened, because it was seen as these eyes of the house. So those have been replaced with regular windows now. Okay. Oh, yeah, I see ones with regular windows. I mean, it doesn't change the fact that, you know.

A bunch of murders happened there. Yeah, that's a beautiful house, though. It's so beautiful. I would, I mean, I would say I would live there, but I don't know that I would. I don't know that I could. I think it recently sold for like $800,000. Okay. It is on Long Island, so.

Yeah. Property values there are like crazy crazy because it's not an overly it's a really nice house and the defao family had a lot of money they were very well to do yeah um louise defao's dad um owned that buick dealership and it did really well and you know the uh ronald senior and butch both worked there. And, like, Butch had been a really difficult-to-control child. He was the oldest, and he'd always acted out, and he had behavioral issues. And so his dad had disciplined him a lot as a child.

Okay. And his dad also had a really quick temper. And when he would lose it, Butch would be the first person to be like the brunt of that. And so he was always the one that was taking whatever he was giving out if it was just yelling or if it was hitting or whatever. It was most often done to Butch. The family was also super religious. The kids went to parochial school, but Butch got kicked out of it. But like at the same time, Butch was this kid who was having all these problems. But for his 14th birthday, they gave him a $15,000 speedboat. Okay. Well, gee, I wonder why he was a little monster.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then he was using drugs constantly. Like, he was heavily into LSD and heavily into heroin at the time of the murders. And how old was he at the time of the murders? I want to say like 23. Yeah. 22 or 23.

Yikes. Yeah. I think yours was more lighthearted than mine. Have you? Well, it was because there were no nipple belts or tape on vaginas. Yeah. No box of vulva. Fuck.

Box of salted vulva. Have you ever ever you've never seen the amityville horror no okay i want you to look up right now ryan reynolds amityville horror okay there is a picture of him shirtless in this okay i'm just doing an image search oh my he's super jacked right randy why don't you go on home yeah he looks good this is like i feel like when he like before he'd been like the funny guy and then he went to like super because this is 2005 when this came out yeah so he's like been super hot for a long time now yeah but this was like the first time that it was like i mean i'm sorry look at i mean look at look at this yeah you're gonna have to describe

it because you know we're on a podcast right now it's the hip thing he's got on okay he's shirtless and he's got like pants that are like they're whitney spears low rise 2002 pajama pants yeah so they're just he's gotten out of bed he's all sweaty he's woken up it's 3 15 i'm guessing yeah he's woken up so i need to go check on the boathouse. And he just gets out of bed, just perfect, just sheen all over his perfect pecs and abs and that hip V thing. And he's just strutting his way out to the boathouse. If I were Ryan Reynolds, I'd be worried that you were going to try to make a suit out of him right now. No, he looks amazing in this movie.

Except it looks like, you know, they've got to have some scenes where he's very mentally disturbed. It looks like they went a little heavy on the brown eyeliner on him. Oh, yeah. He's very heavily disturbed. Well, so not mention, I didn't mention it here, but because I don't know that this was actually in the book. I've never read the book. I've seen the original movie and I've seen the remake the drivel um the drivel yes and uh the family while they were in the home they were also getting like progressively like

sicker like they were coming down with like flu-like symptoms so like by the fucking end of the 28 days george's eyes are just bloodshot to all hell and he's got these dark circles under his eyes so i think that's kind of what you're seeing here in these photographs. Thank you. Wonderful. No problem. What'd you think of our theme episode, Kristen? You know, I actually really enjoyed it.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's the Halloween episode. It was creepy as hell. Yeah. I'm glad it's over. I don't want to read about that guy ever again. You know, so I like the movie Psycho.

I love Silence of the Lambs. It's one of my favorite movies. Yeah. Had no idea that that was based on some creepy dude. And actually, I kind of think those movies are less creepy than they are. For real. For real. For real. Because I am telling you, I did not list everything that was found in that house.

Yeah. So, okay. Tell me if you came across this in your reading. I feel like he had made like a candy dish out of a hollowed out skull does that sound familiar at all so i'm trying to think back he'd made like soup bowls oh maybe that's what i'm thinking of but i mean who's to say what's a soup bowl and what's a candy dish when you're talking about human remains that's right you do you i also read somewhere that he had skulls on his bedposts. Oh, gosh.

Yeah. So you're telling me that if you ended up in Plainville, Wisconsin. Plainfield, Wisconsin. You wouldn't just cruise on by the site of where his home was. Oh, I would. Yeah. I think I would. Alright. Would you go to the cemetery?

Find his mother's grave? Gosh, well, here's the thing. I'm in Plainfield. Yeah. I might as well. Might as well, right? What else am I going to do? Look, you try to be like, I'm not that creepy. I would never go to a museum where they had these kind of artifacts.

Yeah. You know, here's what I'm thinking. I am really creeped out by going and seeking that stuff out in like the immediacy of the moment. Yeah. But I realized as you were talking and i'm like ew who could ever live in a place like that norman grew up in a house yeah where like they don't know that a woman was murdered there but it's like this famous ghost story yeah so and i don't think that place should be torn down do you sleep in that house? Yeah. When you guys go there? Every Christmas. Have you ever had an experience?

No. Did your eyes fly open at 3.15 in the morning? No. Did you get up all sweaty and go check out the boathouse? I got up all sweaty. And let me tell you, I was ripped. Just abs for days. That's right.

I was like, this is wonderful. I'm so much hotter than when i first fell asleep beard i'm growing is coming in nicely um i feel like since it's our halloween episode uh-huh uh you and i shut up i know what you're up together as young children who went trick-or-treating many times don't waste your time brandy i'm going to cut this whole thing and i would like to just reminisce on a couple of those stories real quick so listeners one year i wish i could remember what you were dressed up as this year but i don't know okay kristin decided that she was going to be the most polite trick-or-treater ever.

At each house we went to, she decided that in return for the candy that they were giving her, she would give them one compliment. So it started out, you know, oh, I really like your house. You know, your lawn looks really nice the grass the landscaping's really nice and then as the night went further on i don't know what happened i ran out of compliments started to fall apart so we get to this one house okay we go up we ring the doorbell the woman comes to the door and her she has a small child with her um it's obviously you know one of his first halloweens um he's already done trick-or-treating he's just standing there helping

hand out candy i feel like he was dressed as a pumpkin but i don't how do you remember that for sure that's just the image i have in my mind okay so kristin says you know trick-or-treat the woman hands us the candy and krististen says to the woman i like your kid and that was uh when the woman slammed the door in our face do i sound too much like a 51 year old bachelor who likes to babysit kids yeah um the other halloween that comes to mind is the year that uh we dressed as the spice girls oh yeah and it do you remember this it was pouring down rain yes and we were the only trick-or-treaters in your neighborhood cleaned up everybody was like dumping their whole buckets in our bags because they're like oh we haven't had any trick-or-treaters in your neighborhood. We cleaned up. Everybody was like dumping their whole buckets in our bags.

Because they're like, oh, we haven't had any trick-or-treaters. It was the best. Handfuls full of candy going in our bags. But we were fucking freezing. It was so cold. Do you remember that? I remember it very, very well. Because I remember people were like.

Oh, yeah. People were kind of like hanging out in their garages. And like when we showed up, every time they were surprised. Oh man, we got so much candy. I was Sporty Spice. Yep. You were? Ginger Spice.

I fought hard for Ginger Spice. Kyla was Scary Spice. And our friend Laura was scary spice. And our friend Laura was posh. Good casting there. Laura is posh. Yeah, she's definitely posh. Who was baby? I don't recall.

Shit. Let us know. If you trick or treated with us that Halloween and dressed up as baby spice, reach out to us. It's one of three people in my mind. I know that it was not Christine because she was too cool. Really? For our.

She dressed as a French soccer fan because the World Cup was going on or had just ended or whatever. I don't know anything about soccer, so I apologize. This has to be really weird for our listeners. We don't care who you went to elementary school with. That's right. Yeah, good times. We had some good times trick-or-treating. Yeah.

I like your kid. To this day, I come up to parents and just give them a dead-treating yeah i like your kid to this day i come up to parents and just give them a dead-eyed stare i like you i like your kid no one ever asks me to baby i bet i don't know why uh so i've got exciting news oh you ready I am. So, like I said, Norman went to Portland for Retro Gaming Expo. Yeah. A person came up to him. I don't know the person's name. A person came up to him, said she was a fan of the podcast.

Excellent. She'd found out about it through Gerard the Completionist. Thank you, Gerard. When he gave us a shout out. Mm-hmm. Gerard the Completionist when he gave us a shout out. Then, through Let's Go to Court, she found out about Gaming Historian.

Oh, in your face, Norman! So, we are tired of him writing our coattails. No more drafting off of us, sir. You know, what has he done for us, really? You know, we have over 100 Twitter followers. That's right. And 82 ratings and reviews on iTunes. I mean, we're practically, our heads barely fit through the door tonight.

So that was the exciting thing I had to tell you. Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. Thank you. If you are not one of our followers on social media that we just spoke of, get your ass on it. Come find us. We're on Instagram. We're on Twitter us we're on instagram we're on twitter

we're on facebook and uh head on over to itunes leave us a rating leave us a review we would appreciate it oh so very much and you know a lot of people don't know that the good karma will come back to them in the form of chiseled abs yeah in that that v thing that with the hips that weird v thing yeah will appear that's right whether you're a man or a woman so it's coming at you no but thank you to everybody who's supporting us we appreciate it we appreciate it so much so so much we have such a blast putting these out we really do yeah i was just thinking about this um when did we start this february yeah i think our first episode came out the end of february beginning of march something like that yeah this is super fun it is super fun except for

you know when you have to talk about nipple belts and salt and false. Well, thanks guys for joining us on this extra spooky edition of Let's Go to Court. Did you forget the name of our podcast? No, I was doing a dramatic pause.

Oh, okay, okay. Hi. All right, all right. Hi. Join us next week when we'll be

experts on a whole new topic podcast adjourned and now for a note about our process i read a bunch of stuff then regurgitated all back up in my very limited vocabulary and i copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from newspapers.com, Crime Library, and an episode of Biography on A&E. And I got my info from Crime Library, Murderpedia, amityvilleFiles.com, and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCPodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it.

Go read their stuff.