Let's Go To Court! - 45: The “Other” Craigslist killer & the Watts Family Murders

Episode Date: December 5, 2018

When Nicole Atkinson dropped her friend Shanann Watts off at home early one morning, everything seemed fine. But the next day, Shanann didn’t answer any of Nicole’s texts. Then Shanann missed her 10 a.m. doctor’s appointment. Nicole called Shanann’s husband, Chris, but he seemed kind of dismissive. That didn’t set well with Nicole. So she called the police. Then Kristin wraps things up with a murdering con man. In the post-recession era, Richard Beasley dreamt up a near-perfect con — one that preyed on men who were down on their luck. He posted a job on Craigslist that promised $300 a week and a two-bedroom trailer — all in exchange for watching over a 688-acre ranch. Applications poured in. But there was no job. Richard’s Craigslist ad was his twisted way of luring unsuspecting men to Ohio. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Murder by Craigslist,” by Hanna Rosin for The Atlantic “’Craigslist’ killer Richard Beasley sentenced to death,” Cleveland.com “Death sentence for Craigslist killer upheld by Ohio Supreme Court,” Cleveland.com “The Craigslist Killer: Richard Beasley” episode of Monster in my Family In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “A Secret Mistress Comes Clean & a Suspicious Bed Sheet Spotted from the Sky: How Chris Watts Was Caught” by Adam Carlson, People Magazine “Murder Suspect Husband Gave TV Interviews, Before His Arrest, Outside House Where Wife & Kids Likely Died” by Adam Carlson, People Magazine “Chris Watts case: What we learned from unsealed affidavit” by Madison Park, CNN “Timeline: Key dates in investigation of deaths of Shanann Watts, 2 daughters in Colorado” by Sady Swanson, Fort Collins Coloradoan “Court documents: Watts children found in oil well, may have been strangled” by Coloradoan Staff, Fort Collins Coloradoan “Chris Watts sentenced to five life terms without parole for killing pregnant wife, two daughters” by Blair Miller, Denver 7 News  

one semester of law school one semester of criminal justice two experts i'm kristin pitts i'm brandy egan let's go to court on this episode i'll talk about the other craigslist killer and i'll be talking about the watts family murderers i we have i have to do a correction right off the bat what on the episode that um was released this week okay the that's my leg okay segment we called him judge joe mathis yeah his name is judge greg mathis i think we mesh together judge jo Joe Brown and Judge Greg Mathis. Wow, that's embarrassing. That's not even close.

That sucks. So I listened to that episode and I was like, that does not sound right. And so I look it up and I was like, fuck, we were wrong. Why didn't we look it up while we were doing it? We were both because I was like, was that his name? And then we were both like, yeah, that's for sure his name. I 100% believed it was his name. So why would I Google something that I'm 100% sure about?

Well, I'm sorry, Judge Greg Mathis. I know you're a huge fan of the show. Huge fan of the pod. And I'm sure you were pissed. Super pissed that we got his name wrong. Okay. This case that I'm doing. It is a fresh one. There's still steam coming off of it

oh i'm sorry but is it is it gonna be like one of mine where like stuff isn't done no this is 100 wrapped up nice tight bow on top i'm really pissed because I was like getting kind of giddy about like, now I can give you shit about doing a case that's not fully done. Of course, of course you waited for the exact right moment. Of course I did. Congratulations. Congratulations. Okay. It was just before 1.45 a.m. onust 13th 2018 oh oh oh that's like crazy fresh i told you there

was steam on it still kristin i didn't okay go ahead when nicole atkinson dropped shenan watts off at her home in frederick colorado sh. And, okay, in the video, like the court videos of this, a couple of people call her Shannon. Yeah. But her parents and her husband and the prosecutor all call her Shanann. Well, okay, then they're right. I'm guessing they're correct. I think they'd know. Okay.

Okay. So Nicole Atkinson dropped Shanann Watts off at her home in Frederick, Colorado, which is about 30 miles north of Denver. The two friends had been in Scottsdale, Arizona to attend a conference for the multi-level marketing company they were both representatives for. And while the ladies had had a great time at the conference, Shanann was tired and ready to go home. She was ready to be back with her family, her husband, Chris, and daughters, Bella and Celeste, ages four and three, respectively. The trip had also taken its toll on Shanann because at 15 weeks pregnant with her third child, a boy they plan to name Nico. She tired more easily. Okay, what was the MLM?

It's Level. They sell Thrive products. They're like these patches that are supposed to give you more energy and stuff. Brandi, I've got an exciting opportunity for you. All you have to ask yourself is, do I want to be a millionaire or no? No. Oh, what? Who would want to be a millionaire?

What the fuck? Oh, God. That was disgusting. Do you want me to leave that in? Please do not. Where your boogers hit the back of your brain? Oh, my God. Your boogers hit the back of your brain.

Oh my God. I swear, I breathe it totally normally until I walk out of my house and cross into Missouri. I'm allergic to Missouri. To what? The aroma of Missouri? Can't imagine. You know, the second you walked in my house today, you had complaints about Missouri. Okay. In my defense, you had complaints about Missouri. Okay.

In my defense, you had the same complaints. It's true. We recently had some snow here. Some snow? We had a blizzard in Kansas City. Ridiculous snow. Yeah. And in Johnson County, where I live, the streets look as if it never snowed. They are clear.

No problems. Wonderful. You cross right into Missouri. They're horrible. So I was telling Brandy today, because it's so ridiculous, this thing of living on the state line, where one state is like on top of their shit,

and the other is sleeping. So I go to the gym in Kansas, and like the second I cross the state line, the roads are wonderful but in my own neighborhood it's like a freaking ice rink yes but don't worry today Kansas City Missouri tweeted thanks for your patience the roads are all clear so I can see a road right now that I yeah no everyone was like really really, guys? Weird. This tweet was a little premature. Everything seemed normal when Nicole left the Watts home in those early morning hours.

But what she didn't know was that it was the last time she would ever see her friend alive. And within 69 hours, police would have their suspect in custody. Well, that's pretty precise. Yeah, it is. Do you think maybe it was 70 hours, but the writer of this article that I pulled that little tidbit from was like, He's 69! I really hope not. It was pretty quickly the following morning that nicole felt something was out of the ordinary

she and shenan spoke every day but she wasn't returning her text messages and when nicole learned that shenan had missed a 10 o'clock doctor's appointment that morning she knew something was up for sure i don't know how she found out she missed the doctor's appointment. I couldn't find that. Could you see that question formulating? I did. I saw it. Well, because I had that question when I was writing this. I was like, well, how'd she find out? And I read so many articles to try and figure, was she supposed

to go to it with her? I don't know. Did she work at the doctor's office? I don't know. But somehow she knew she had a 10 o'clock doctor's appointment and she knew she didn't make it. So just after noon, Nicole headed to the Watts home. When her doorbell rings and pounding on the front door went unanswered, Nicole called Chris Watts and told him she was at the house and she was afraid that maybe Shanann had suffered some sort of medical event, leaving her unable to come to the door. Chris told Nicole that he would come home to check the house for her but nicole wasn't satisfied with that she also called the police and asked them to perform

a welfare check on shenanigans she did not like so she didn't like chris's response because at first chris was like you know we're going through some stuff and it's really none of your business uh and then she was like whoa whoa you know what she's my best friend it isn't my business if i can't get a hold of her i talk to her every day and he's like okay you're right yeah i'll come check on her so she's like fuck that yeah i'm not asking for you to check yeah and so she calls the police by 1 40 that afternoon police arrived at the watts home and chris was there by then as well and he let them in and let them look around the house and he answered their questions he walked them through

the events that he said took place after shenan arrived home from the conference okay so what happened chris he said that he had woken up about five o'clock in the morning and realized that shenan had come home so she was supposed to have been home earlier than that. But there were like some storms. And so her flight got delayed. And so she didn't get home until almost 2 o'clock in the morning. So he had already gone to bed. And so at that time, at 5 o'clock in the morning, he wakes up. He wakes her up.

They have this emotional conversation where he calmly and politely informed her that he wanted a divorce. Oh oh that's usually how it goes isn't it the two then had a lengthy conversation about ending their six-year marriage during which both he and shenan were both they were pretty upset and crying and then at approximately 5 15 he wait 15 he Wait, 15? He left for work. I can't even get the words out. This conversation lasted 15 minutes? Well, 15 minutes passed

from the time that he woke her up. They had the conversation. He asked for the divorce. They had a lengthy emotional, you know, conversation. Both were crying and upset. Now we've got our six-year marriage. Yeah, and then seven minutes later,

he was on his way to work. After the conversation, Shanann told Chris that she would be leaving later that day to stay with a friend for a bit. But when he left for work, Shanann had gone back to bed and the kids were still asleep. That was the last he'd seen of them.

Uh-huh. Multiple police officers listened to his story, and with the exception of one small change in the timeline, where he told one officer that the conversation happened at four rather than five. That's a better lie. It is a better lie. His story seemed consistent, but there were red flags all over the house. Really?

Like what? When police arrived at the house, it was locked up tight. Every door and every window was secured. Yet Shanann's keys, purse, and phone were found inside the house. Even her car was still in the garage with the girls' car seats inside. It sure didn't look like Shanann had left the house. And then there was the discovery in the master bedroom. The sheets from the bed had been stripped,

and they were later found stuffed into a trash can in the home. But police weren't ready to call this a missing persons case just yet it had only been a few hours since shenan was last seen there had been an emotional conversation between her and chris and she told him she was going to leave and adults are free to do that so they told chris to continue to try and get in contact with her and they'd follow up with him the following day wait so was her purse, and cell phone in the house or just purse and keys? Purse, keys, cell phone, all inside the house.

Yeah. I mean, I know all adults are free to leave, but what adult woman leaves without either all three or at least a few of those things? Yes. That's crazy. So when officers followed up with Chris the following morning, August 14th, and found that Shanann and the girls had not returned home

and he'd still been unable to reach her, they decided it was time to get the public involved. Okay. I didn't realize that the girls were missing too. Yes. Oh, shit. Yes. Oh.

realize that the girls were missing too yes oh shit yes oh they issued a news release and requested assistance from state and federal investigators right away canine units were brought in to try and pick up the scent around the watts home to see if shenan and the girls had left on foot and they could attempt maybe to follow that trail and the newly involved officers took another round look around the home for possible evidence. I believe it was actually during this search that they found the sheets

in the trash. So initially when the police had come, the bed had just been stripped and like they took note of that. But I think it wasn't until this search that they found the sheets in the trash can. They didn't look in the trash can?

Well, it wasn't even a search at that point really. She wasn't even officially a missing person. They didn't look in the trash. Wasn't even a search at that point. Really? She wasn't even officially missing. Okay. Okay. They were just doing like a cursory search around the house for any sign of break in or anything like that. Okay.

During this same time when they've got the canine units going, they've got a new investigation team going. Chris Watts is standing on his front porch and speaking to the media. He said he just wanted to know that they were safe. If they had left willingly and they were safe somewhere, that was okay with him. He just needed to know where they were safe. But he told reporters, if someone took them and they were, not safe like that was like not okay because like they needed to come forward and like speak up because that's like way not cool of them wait are you direct this is not a direct quote this is basically what he fucking said

well he's like right so he's like he is his demeanor is super strange. He's very calm and he's almost chuckling between sentences. He's like, I just really want to know if they're okay. I mean, if they're safe, cool. If they're not, not cool. Oh my God. He also told reporters that the previous night had been torture he sat up all night with the lights on in the house waiting for his daughters to come running through the door and attack him with hugs and kisses but it never happened to finish up the interview a reporter

asked chris if your wife could see this, if she could watch this, what would you tell her? And Chris replied, and this is an exact quote, Shanann, Bella, Celeste, if you're out there, just come back. Like if somebody has her, just bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see everybody again. This house is not complete without anybody here. Please bring them back. Okay. So what we know about cases like this is that the spouse, the person closest to the victim is always the first suspect. Right. So while Chris was giving his front porch interviews, they were looking into his activities in between the time that Shanann arrived home and when police had become involved. It was a short time, almost exactly 12 hours. But they would soon learn that Chris had been very busy during that time. Well, yeah, because he was asleep,

and then he had that 15-minute conversation, and then he left the house. So this timeline is a little bit murky because a lot happens in a 24-hour period. So I've done my best to, like, get it in the right order, but if something's a little bit out of order, I'm very sorry. Brandy, if you don't have this 100% right. So all of these next events happened on August 15th.

Okay. The day after Shanann and the girls were officially listed as missing persons. So investigators brought Chris in for an official interview at the station, and he denied having any knowledge of what happened to Shanann or the girls. He repeatedly told them that he had no idea where they were. He agreed to take a polygraph test, and it determined that he was being deceptive when he answered no to several questions, including, do you know where Shanann Watts is? Did you have anything to do with the disappearance of shenan bella or celeste did you harm shenan in any way so he said no to all of those questions

and the test showed that he was being deceptive even with those results though he maintained that he had no knowledge of their whereabouts. So at some point during that same day, police received a call from a woman named Nicole Kessinger. She told police that she was a co-worker of Chris's and that the two had been having an affair for about a month. Oh, no. But, and this is the real shocker, Chris had told her that he and his wife were separated. Oh, no. But, and this is the real shocker, Chris had told her that he and his wife were separated.

Oh, God. So she was real surprised to learn that Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant and that they weren't separated at all. Uh-huh. So Nicole had called to confront Chris when she saw his plea for his family's return on the news. And he was so clearly feeding her line after line about the whole situation as she finally told him she didn't want to hear from him again until after

his family was found she was like you're not being truthful with me you're feeding me bullshit i'm done until after until after your family's found i think that's a weird thing to say too she had a terrible feeling in her gut that maybe she hadn't known this man at all and maybe he had done something to his wife and children that was when she made the decision to call police and police weren't shocked at all that chris had been having an affair they were pretty sure that he hadn't been truthful to them about anything to this point when police were doing their initial investigation to the house, they noted that the Watts next door neighbor had one of those ring doorbells

with the video camera. And so they went over and they asked him if they could check his footage. And of course he was like, anything I can do to help. Absolutely. So through that footage, they were able to confirm when Shanann returned home from her trip and when Chris had left for work in the morning.

And the camera caught him backing his truck up to the house and loading something to it into the back of it that morning sometime after 5 a.m. before he left for work. When questioned about this, Chris told investigators that he had been loading up tools for work into his truck. But it wasn't only what the camera caught that the police took interest in it was what it didn't show as well at no point did it show shenan or the girls leaving the house oh yeah yep not on foot not at gunpoint by some armed assailant. Not at all.

According to the footage from the video, Shanann and the girls should still be in the house. Yep. Unless, of course, someone had loaded them into the back of a truck before leaving for work. No, those were tools. I think you missed that part. So with that information. Did it say how big? So. No. so with that information big so no okay

i'll get to a theory at the end of this i'll tell you what okay what they think happened but they couldn't see what was being loaded into the truck and they couldn't see i don't think they could physically see what he was holding. Okay. Just like the angle of it, I believe. So with that information in hand, they looked into where Chris had worked that day. They learned that Chris had gone to a remote site of the oil company he worked for that day. In fact, a co-worker had offered to take the job from him so he wouldn't have to go to this site.

But he declined and said he'd handle it. On August 15th, police used drones to trace Chris's GPS route from his work truck to the site, and then they searched that site. So they took drones and they took it along the whole route that he drove in his work truck. So his work truck has like his GPS enabled, so it tracks all of his routes. And so they follow this whole route he took. And then they use this drone to do an aerial search of this work site. So it's like the company they worked for is an oil drilling company. And so it's not like a refinery or anything like that.

It just has like big crude oil tanks on it. And and I think like oil derricks, I believe. OK, so they're searching with this drone and they spot some freshly disturbed earth. And a sheet on the ground and the pattern on the sheet. the sheet matches the pattern from the stripped bed sheets perfectly. Yep. So now they're like, well, that's for sure where the bodies are. Yeah. They also found out during this time that between the time that he'd left for work

and when he'd been called back to the house by shenan's friend he'd called the girls where the girls were enrolled at preschool and told them they wouldn't be coming back for the next school year so it's august 13th so school's getting ready to start and they're in like a public school preschool program so he calls the school and tells them that they're not going to be enrolled he needs to remove them for enrollment for the starting school year did he think he would get away with i mean i think he thought it would delay suspicion like because if school starts i don't know i would assume school would be starting within two weeks then so he thought he would get you know more time but i

guess he failed to think like hmm i think probably family members and friends are going to be missing these people yeah okay so during all the time that all of this searching is going on chris watts was still at police headquarters being interrogated at some point he'd been given a chance to call his dad and he'd asked him to come. And so his dad, I don't know where his dad lived, but his dad had to board a plane. His dad got on a plane, flew to Denver, drove to police headquarters, and he was still being interrogated at that point. Like seven hours had gone by. Yeah, yeah. And they had taken a break, and he was able to see his dad for a minute.

And then they went in and did like five more hours of interrogation. And his dad's just sitting at the station this whole time. And so investigators come out and they're like, Chris is refusing to speak to us. He wants to speak to you before he'll tell us anything. And so they let his dad go into the room with him, just the two of them. But they have cameras going. But of course, yeah yeah they're watching and like immediately upon seeing his father chris watch just breaks down sobbing oh and he says i'm sorry dad i went into a rage oh my god and that's when chris told maybe his biggest lie yet. He told his dad and then investigators

that he'd been forced into strangling Shanann to death after he caught her strangling their daughter Celeste with Bella sprawled nearby, Shanann already having strangled her. Chris said that Shanann had killed the girls in retaliation after he told her he wanted a divorce. And when he saw through a baby monitor what she was doing, he went into a rage that she would harm their beautiful baby girls. And he had no choice but to kill her.

Is that not fucking disgusting? That makes me so angry. It makes me so mad. You killed all three of them and then you're going to blame your dead wife yeah it's disgusting then he loaded their bodies into the back of a truck of his truck i believe bella and celeste were put into trash bags and that shenan was wrapped in the sheet from the bed. And he'd taken them to that remote work site.

He buried Shanann in a shallow grave and he put Bella and Celeste's bodies into big crude oil holding tanks. Oh, God. Yeah. Horrible. Investigators knew this confession was only yeah half the truth maybe yeah but it was all they needed at 11 30 p.m on wednesday august 15th just 69 hours after shenan arrived home from her work trip they placed chris watts under arrest and charged him with three counts of first-degree murder and three counts of first degree murder and three counts

of tampering with a deceased human body. The following day, Shanann, Bella and Celeste's bodies were recovered from the site. By this time, the story had become national news and legal experts all over the country were speculating that this case would go on for years. Why? There were questions about how they could prove who killed the girls would the crude oil they'd been soaking in tamper dna evidence if dna transfer had been made by whoever strangled the girls would that evidence be gone because they had been soaking in crude oil for four days by the point that by the time they were recovered yeah it seemed like there were several tactics that the defense could take to try

and support chris's claim that shenan was the one who strangled the girls and that maybe his killing of her was justified. Ugh. Then there was the question of the death penalty. Colorado does have the death penalty, though much like Kansas, they're not an active death penalty state. The last time they put someone to death was 1997,

and before that it had been 20-plus years since the last execution. I didn't look up how many people are currently on death row in colorado it's 37 it is not you have no idea i have no idea but all of these questions and speculation would come to an end with a request from someone you might not expect shenan's parents asked the district attorney to take the death penalty off the table. Their reasoning? They said, it's not our right to take the life of another person.

It's not our choice to make. It's God's. Yeah. I just think that's such a powerful thing. Like when they're in so much pain that their daughter and grandchildren have been taken from them in this horrible way that they're like, we can't decide that it's his time to die. That's not our right. They're being better than him. Yeah. Yeah. It's 100% being better than him. Yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah. So with the death penalty off the table, Chris made a surprise move. So with the death penalty off the table, Chris made a surprise move. At a hearing on November 6, 2018, he pled guilty to all counts. Wow. Including a count of unlawful termination of a human pregnancy that had been added. At Chris Watts' sentencing on November 19th. So this is like really fresh. His sentencing just happened on november 19th

overachiever district attorney michael rourke laid out what he believed to be the truth of what happened that day in august so he believes that this whole thing was motivated by the affair chris wanted to leave his wife and be with his mistress. And so he smothered the two girls with pillows. The older girl fought back. She had defensive wounds on her arms and hands. She had fought him. And Chris had some marks on his arm where she had, like, scratched him.

I just, that's so fucking terrible this is a four-year-old girl whose dad who she trusts unconditionally is doing this to her yeah that's that's sickening horrifying and then after killing the girls he strangled shenan and then he put the girl's body in trap bodies in trash bags shenan was asleep when he was doing this to the girls? Or possibly that the girls were already dead by the time she got home from the work trip. And that she discovered that when she got home, and that's when he killed her. So he put their bodies in the truck, them to work buried shenan put the girls in the crude oil tanks the opening to these oil tanks is eight inches in diameter

he squished their bodies through those tiny openings they had scrapes all over their bodies from being shoved through there it's fucking terrible why did you do this so the because it was really a really big case that just happened so while the district attorney is described he's taking them through all of these things in court chris watts is just sitting there and he's got his head down and he's like shaking his legs like uncontrollably like jiggling the whole table everything he never looks up he never makes eye contact with anyone nothing what the hell was wrong with him i no idea yeah so after the district attorney walks through how everything took place, what they believe were the chain of events that took place that day, he then gave people a chance to speak to deliver victims impact statements to the judge. chris he didn't face them because of the way the courtroom is set yeah yeah but he said we trusted you we loved you like you were our own son and you took my daughter and granddaughters out like

they were trash you are a monster yeah then shenan's mother spoke and she thanked the court for allowing her to speak she thanked everyone who played a part in the quick resolution of the case. She thanked the FBI, all of the investigators. And then she said basically the same thing. I can't believe you would do this. I can't believe you would take our daughter and grandchildren away from us. Yeah. And basically, we're better than you. We took the death penalty off the table.

We begged for the district attorney to take it off the table. Yeah. Then Shanann's brother got up and spoke. And he said, you were my brother. I loved you. And you took away my big sister who I looked up to my whole life. And now my parents are living in hell yeah how dare you and all this same time Chris is sitting at the table just looking down and

like doing that thing where he's like shaking his legs yeah then Chris's parents spoke, not in defense of their son at all, but they spoke as victims. They said that they were basically the parents of Shanann. They loved her like she was their own child. And they were the grandparents of Bella and Celeste. Yeah. And they spoke through a court advocate who I thought this was kind of interesting. It was some advocate for the Victims Bill of Rights. And she read a prepared statement.

They stood with her. And then they each read like I think only actually Chris's mom read a little part. But the rest of it the advocate read because they just weren't able to. I think that's awesome. Oh, I think it's really awesome. And so she read this prepared statement and she actually started it by apologizing because there was this big thing that happened in the press so after the initial confession came out that chris had killed shenan because shenan had killed

the two little girls chris's parents came out and said well that's what had to have happened because chris never would have done this that's what had to have happened because Chris never would have done this. That's what had to have happened. Our son's not a monster. He couldn't have done this. And Shanann's parents were devastated that they would say that. Yeah. Because they're like, our daughter's not a monster.

She never would have done this. Yeah. And so they apologized in court through this victim's advocate. And they said, you know, when we made that statement in that interview, we didn't have all the facts. We have all the facts now. And it is clear that Shanann is a victim and only a victim of this crime. That's so tough because of course you would never think that your child would be capable of that. But at the same time, yeah, yeah, that makes it so much harder for Shanann's parents. They also said that they were not asking for leniency, that they wanted Chris sentenced to whatever the judge felt he should be sentenced to, but that they loved their son.

Yeah. And that they would always love their son. This was the only time that Chris was outwardly emotional. He had tears streaming down his face when they said that. The advocate, the court advocate did say in this statement that she hoped Chris would find it in his heart to give everyone the closure they deserved and offer a full confession when he felt the time was right, that he deserved that to everyone involved. Did you hear my stomach?

Your stomach! Oh my gosh! And I just ate before you came over. And they were the last to give their victim impact statement. After that, the judge asked the defense if they had anything to offer up, and the defense offered only one statement. So Chris Watts' attorney got up and said, Mr. Watts has asked us to share this morning that he is devastated by all of this. Although he understands that words are hollow at this point,

he is sincerely sorry for all of this. Yeah, that's pretty hollow. Yeah. When the judge asked chris if he would like to make a statement of his own he declined yeah before handing down his sentence judge marcello a cop cow said i've been a judicial officer now for starting my 17th year and i could objectively say that this is perhaps the most inhumane and vicious crime that I've handled out of the thousands of cases that I have seen. Nothing less than a maximum

sentence could be appropriate and anything less than that maximum sentence would depreciate the seriousness of this offense. Chris Watts was sentenced to three consecutive life terms in prison without the possibility of parole. Additionally, he was sentenced to two concurrent terms of life in prison for two additional murder charges for the murders of each of his daughters. So I think this is very interesting. So he was actually charged twice for each of his daughter's murders once as a traditional first degree murder charge and once as a first degree murder by a person in a position of trust which i didn't even know that that was a thing either nope and so yeah so he actually he pled guilty to both of those for both of his daughters so so then he for those for that

second charge of murder against each of them he was sentenced to two terms of life in prison but those would run concurrent the other ones run consecutively okay but the law requires that those two serve that those two run concurrent he also received the maximum sentence of 48 years for the unlawful termination of a human pregnancy. And finally, he received 12 years for the three counts of tampering with a deceased body. So dude's never getting out ever. He's done. He is done. And he should be.

Yeah. God, that was awful. Fucking horrible. So I did say at the beginning that this is all wrapped up in a little bow. Oh, is it not really, though? Well, this is all done. All of the criminal stuff is 100% done. But Shanann's family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Chris Watts today. So I don't know what the hope of that is.

I don't know. I think maybe it would be to get anything to keep him from profiting off of the case okay would be the only thing that i can imagine that would be to gain from that yeah yeah okay so that's the watts family murders and it was fucking terrible god you know this is gonna be a bad episode you're about to talk about a serial killer so actually actually okay oh it's one of those light-hearted serial killers what makes it is it three or more killings that makes you a serial killer three yes three killings but they have to be separated three or more killings but they have to be separated by a cooling off period between each murder then i don't think i'm doing a serial killer oh oh serial killer oh it's it's gonna be bad but it's not i don't think it counts as serial killer

interesting well yeah no okay all right whoa are you gonna jump right in you don't have to pee i don't whoa somebody mark it down maybe she's born with it i've been doing bladder stretching exercises oh my gosh jk jp i hope that's not a real thing wouldn't that just be holding it for a while i mean it sounds horrifying but it doesn't have to be horrifying holding for a while i mean it sounds horrifying but i think it wouldn't just be holding for a while i think it'd be drinking like mass amounts of liquids and then holding it for a while why couldn't you just drink a normal amount of liquids then hold it for a while because if you're just drinking a normal amount of liquid and holding it you're not adding more liquid in

once you're already holding it listen i don't want to get in a fight over this. Can we talk, by the way, about on our YouTube channel? I don't know what you're talking about. By the way, folks, we have 61 subscribers on YouTube. So, you know, I was uploading a new episode to YouTube, and someone commented on one of the episodes, hashtag Team Brandy. And I was like, wait, do you, is there foul play? No. Oh, okay, okay.

No, I just, I just kind of love this story. So someone commented, hashtag Team Brandy. And I was like, huh, okay, well, it must be on one of our episodes where we get into like a debate or something so i click on the episode to see which one it was now i can't remember which one it was it's the stark weather episode isn't it yeah okay yeah where we had no debate there was no debate so i texted brandy i was like someone commented hashtag team brandy and she's like well we didn't really get into an argument in that one. And it's like, yeah, they're just saying they like you best.

And I said, if it makes you feel any better, I'm hashtag team Kristen all the way. That's like when my mom says that I'm great. Listen, we don't want you to pick a favorite, guys. I do. And I want them to pick me. We just hope everyone has a great time. Okay, moving on. So this comes mostly from the article Murder by Craigslist by Hannah Rossen in The Atlantic. So I called this the other Craigslist killer because when I think Craigslist killer, I think of that Boston med student guy.

Yeah. That's who I think of, too. Which, that's a fun one. Yeah. Well, not. Yeah, it's super fun. Yeah, I know. Terrible.

Sex stuff. So just right up Kristen's alley. It is. Do you know about this one? I'm not based off of this so far. OK. David Pauly was down on his luck. He was 51, unemployed.

He'd just gotten divorced and he was living in his brother's spare bedroom in Norfolk, Virginia. The article said that he couldn't put up his poster of, like, Heidi Klum in a bikini. That really set him off? I think that's so weird when men do that. Put up posters of women? I think that is woman repellent. Well, yeah!

I'll tell you why. Do you really want to be naked in a room I think that is woman repellent. And I'll tell you why. Do you really want to be naked in a room where there's like a poster of a perfect looking woman half naked? This is a PSA to all the men out there. Take those posters down. Yes. Okay. So small tangent.

Sure. I have told you endlessly how much I love a podcast that I'm listening to right now, Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard. You are a huge fan. Huge fan. Because back story, I already loved Dax Shepard before he came out with this podcast. I've really liked him for years. I love how honest he is about, about who he is and about his story and, you know,

his battles with addiction and all of that. I just really love that. And I love him and Kristen Bell together. So anyway, through this podcast, I've learned a lot about them, which is just the greatest thing in the world to me. But so they have a poster of Antonio Banderas above their bed.

They do? Like on their ceiling above their bed. That's so weird. Yes. Why? It started out as like a joke because um dax found out that kristin had a picture of antonio bandera's like in a thong on her bedroom wall when she was a teenager and he was like you didn't like that you just did that because your other your friends were putting up posters and she was like you're 100 right i didn't even get it she always jokes that she went through puberty at like 26 she was just like what her friends were doing and so she just like picked the first poster

put it up and so then someone got him an antonio banderas poster and they put it above their bed and it's still there on the ceiling. Speaking of jokes that become too real. Yeah. So a long running thing that Norman and I have is I will ask him, would you like to be the best husband ever? Which, of course, you have to say yes. Yeah. And like it's always like, will you fill my water bottle? Yeah.

Will you get me another cup of coffee? Yeah. It's usually linked to beverages. It's almost always, will you fill my water bottle? Yeah. Will you get me another cup of coffee? Yeah. It's usually linked to beverages with you. It's almost always a beverage thing. And so he always rolls his eyes and he's kind of like, okay, you know, the joke is done. Meanwhile. But he does it anyway, right? He does it anyway.

And he wants to be the best husband ever. Anyway, fast forward to last week. I was at Marshall's. I went to the bathroom. On my way to the bathroom in Marshall's, I saw a display of mugs, and one of them said, best husband ever. And I was like, I obviously have to buy it. You have to get that, yeah.

So I got in line, and I was like, I realized this is really embarrassing because there are going to be people who don't buy these things ironically. Oh, yeah. And so I brought it to the checkout and I almost told the woman like, hey, you know, this is just a joke. But then I realized she doesn't give a shit. She doesn't give a fuck, Kristen. Yeah, she's like, she's just scanning stuff. Anyway, so now Norman has a best husband ever mug.

He showed me his award when I got here today. Well, you know, got to rub that in everybody's face. Anyway, that was a long tangent. Quite the tangent. Okay, so David Pauly, down on his luck, unemployed. One day, while he was sitting around looking at job postings on Craigslist, he found the perfect job. The ad read, wanted caretaker for farm. Simply watch over a 688 acre patch of hilly farmland and feed a few cows. You get $300 a week and a nice two-bedroom trailer. Someone older and

single preferred, but will consider all. Relocation a must. You must have a clean record and be trustworthy. This is a permanent position. The farm is used mainly as a hunting preserve, is overrun with game, has a stocked three-acre pond, and some beef cattle will be kept. Nearest neighbor is a mile away. The place is secluded and beautiful. It will be a real getaway for the right person. Job of a lifetime. If you're ready to relocate, please contact ASAP. Kate, please contact ASAP. Position will not stay open. So David is overjoyed. This seemed like the perfect job for him, and he immediately applied. The job would be in Ohio, but David was up for the adventure. Plus, his best friend since high school, Chris Maulul already lived in Ohio. So he sent off a very eager email. That listing sounds familiar.

Really? Yeah. I'm wondering if I know this. So far, that's the only thing that sounds familiar. Okay. You might know this one. Okay. A few days later, a man named Jack replied to David's email.

He said, hey, good news. You are one of my top three candidates. I just have a few more questions for you. Number one, are you married? Number two, have you ever been arrested for a felony? Number three, will anyone miss you if you go missing? Uh-huh. Yep.

Also, if I choose you, you have to start immediately can you do that so david answered all the questions and had a few more phone calls with jack and a few days later he got the job he was elated he immediately called his best friend chris on their walkie-talkie phones is that a joke oh no like the next tell ones like which did it i i gotta say i've come to really like david from reading these articles but i had a roommate once who had those walkie talkie phones those things are fucking annoying do you guys know what we're talking they're the ones that like they look like walkie talkies and they go beep beep and then someone talks fucking the worst yeah so they're on their walkie talkie phones and you know david's talking excitedly about the job he's

feeling like things are finally going to turn around for him then david called his twin sister deb and she was like oh god you know i hate that you're going to be so far away, but, you know, just make sure you come home for the holidays. So with some help from his church, David got a U-Haul, loaded up all of his stuff and took off for Ohio. On October 22nd, 2011, he pulled into a hotel near Marietta, Ohio. He called his sister and said, hey, I'm going to meet my new boss tomorrow morning. We're having breakfast at Bob Evans. Excellent. Nothing wrong with that.

No. Who doesn't like a good Bob Evans? Then he called his BFF, Chris. And Chris was like, I'm so excited for you. Hey, as soon as you're done with your boss, give me a call. Let me know exactly where you are so that i can come down on saturday and we can hang out david's like sure yeah by the way these two talked uh chris estimated 50 times a day 50 times yeah i cannot even imagine so you know they kept their phones on like their nightstands and it said that before they even got up and brushed their teeth in the morning, they'd be talking. Like the dee dee?

Yep. Hmm. I mean, these dudes were like, it made me think. The only thing I can compare it to is like when we would like go to school with each other all day, we'd come home, we'd eat a snack and then we'd turn on like Jenny Jones. And call each other and watch it together on the phone. And discuss Jenny Jones. Yeah. But I mean, we were 12 year old girls.

Yeah. And even that wasn't 50 times a day. No, no. 50 times a day? Yeah. I mean, you're doing anything 50 times a day that's too much. I wonder how many times i pee a day estimate um okay estimate 20 you think you pee 20 times a day i pee a lot

holy hell these are the consequences of working from home you can get up and pee whenever you want yeah i'm like me who has to put in a written request to be able to pee you can't just like yeah i couldn't just like stop a highlight and go pee yeah yeah yeah no but like i've got like a bladder who's gonna give me side eye no one peanut yeah probably won't be like, bitch again. Doesn't sound like I'm bragging. You know, they've got these plans. David's supposed to call Chris immediately when he's done talking to the boss.

But the next day comes and there's no phone call. Chris tried calling him, doesn't get a response. So he got the number for David's boss, Jack, and Jack was like, Oh, right, well, I just gave him a bunch of chores to do. But hey, I'll see him tomorrow. I'll let you know he called. A few more days go by. Nothing. Chris calls David again. Nothing nothing so he calls jack again and this time jack is like oh weird story here's the thing david left okay he met some dude in town who was headed to

pennsylvania apparently this guy was doing some work on a drilling rig and David decided to go with him. Okay. Okay. Goodbye. Yeah. Super believable. So immediately Chris was like, no. Yeah. I think he forgot to ask question four in the interview process. Do you have a best friend who you talk to 50 times a day? So, I mean he's like yeah he's not married yeah he can get up at a whim and go move to ohio but he's got someone he talks to constantly so you know chris is like no this makes no sense we talk to each other all the time it makes no sense that he would all of a sudden stop calling. Yeah.

So now we're in November. I'm loving your eyeshadow today, by the way. Are you really? Seriously, yeah. Okay, thank you. Love it. I was worried that it was a little too much. No.

Okay. It's just enough. Thank you. You guys, Brandi winked at me, and it makes me really uncomfortable. You inspired me to buy it. I did? Yeah, because remember last week I was like, oh, I want the new Urban Decay eyeshadow palette, but I'm going to wait for it to go on sale.

And you were like, you know it's not going to go on sale. You know the ones they're going to put on sale are the ones you already own. I did say that. And I bet I was 100% correct. You're probably right. They'll probably put on like the naked basics palette, which I've had for like four years. I love talking about this stuff, knowing that we have a don't we have like a mostly heavy male. Yeah.

Listener listening body listening listenership listen listening dudes listening dudes our listening dudes are mostly male and they don't give two shits about eyeshadow they're like the urban what anyway guys uh the urban back to the it. Oh, wait, what are you going to say? Which pallet did you get? The wild cherry. Whoa! Yeah, I was thinking maybe if they needed Christmas gifts. I don't know. The lady in your life would love a wild cherry.

Oh. That's horrible. Like, yeah, when you say it like that and you make that face. How did you turn that dirty? Did I turn it dirty or did you? You for sure did. All I said is the lady in your life would love a wild cherry. And then you made a really funny face.

Okay, so now we're in November. Oh my God, I changed Chris's name to Paul. Jeez. What the hell? Okay. It's not even close. It's just like Judge Joe Mathis mathis like where did we get that so listen everyone try to keep up this story involves a lot of different people and i'm

gonna change their names halfway through it just according to what i feel like doing. Holy shit. Oh, you know what? I think it's because David's last name is Polly, and so I, anyway, I got confused. So Chris calls David's twin sister Deb. He's like, I'm super worried. And she's like, that makes two of us, because by this point, she also suspected that something was up. deb sounds like a rock star so she'd already done some digging she'd called

the hotel where her brother had stayed they didn't have any info she'd called the u-haul rental place they didn't have any info so she's just sitting around worrying and thinking like you know okay what more can I think of? What did he tell me about this job that I can work with here? And that's when something popped into her mind. Ooh. Cambridge. Cambridge, Ohio.

That's where this farm was supposedly located. Ooh. So she gets out her computer, she Googles Cambridge, Ohio, and she comes across the Daily Jeffersonian, which is the local newspaper. Jeffersonian. What? I like it. Okay.

I like the sound of it. So she's on that site. She's looking at the headlines. And that's when she comes across this one. Man says he was lured here for work then shot holy shit deb freaked yeah the article was a few days old it didn't say who the man was but it did have a few details that sounded creepily familiar the man said he'd been hired to work on a 688-acre ranch. The article also included the name of the local sheriff, Stephen Hannum.

Oh, thank God. The heat just kicked on. It's 12 degrees in here, Kristen. Oh, my God. Are you freezing, too? I am dying. Don't worry. The heat just kicked on. It'll get up to 13 here soon. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, Norman likes it real cold done i thought i was good wearing a sweatshirt apparently not wear my parka next time yeah so deb called that police station immediately she explained the situation she said i just read an article about a man who was lured to ohio for work and it sounds a lot like what may have happened to my brother.

Can you help me? The police were like, you're kidding. Because that man from the newspaper article, the one who'd been lured to Ohio and then shot, his story had initially seemed so strange that police had kind of thought he was full of shit. Oh my gosh so that man was scott davis and here was his story scott was living in south carolina when he stumbled

across his dream job on craigslist three hundred dollars a week free housing living on a huge farm he applied got the job packed up all of his possessions, and moved to Ohio. His new boss, Jack, said, hey, we'll start your first day by meeting for breakfast. I'll see you at the Shoney's in Marietta. What? No Bob Evans? You know, another article I saw said Waffle House. I'm very upset that we can't just, you know, nail this down. Man, we used to have a Shoney's here when I was a kid. I loved it. Okay, I loved it too. Why did you love it? They had a salad bar. Oh, what? That's why you liked it? Yeah, I got soup and salad bar when I was like seven. Okay, I loved it. Because do you remember the big tree they had with the lollipops in it?

Okay, how were you a seven-year-old who was obsessed with the salad bar but not the lollipop tree? You could get anything on that. So they were so, that's the biggest salad bar I've ever seen in my life. What did you put on your salad? Oh, man. Probably nothing of any kind of nutritional value when I was seven. Well, sure. But, I mean, they didn't have marshmallows. No, but like little chunks of ham and pepperonis turkey yeah ham slash turkey he knows which one

it was cheese big bucket of cheese yeah cottage cheese soup you put that in the bowl and then they had oyster crackers for your soup oh yeah oh now i'm getting hungry then if it was your birthday you got like a giant piece of chocolate cake with a candle in it if you went there for the breakfast buffet it had mini donuts on it my grandma loved shoney so we went there a lot it was close to her house um shoney's was frequented by old people and little kids. Yep. Yeah. That's the problem. The people with money didn't like Shoney's.

That's why Shoney is no more. Yep. They had a bear. I used to get like this little stuffed bears there. The Shoney bear. Yeah, no. I remember him standing by the tree. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Clearly, to me, it was all about the lollipop. Clearly. That was all I wanted. Clearly. I remember I used to show off because like Kyla and I would both about the lollipop. That was all I wanted. Clearly. I remember I used to show off because Kyla and I would both get a lollipop. And she would crunch into hers immediately like a fool. Look how long I can make mine last.

Yeah, I'm like, oh, it's so good. I still have mine. What happened to yours? So anyway. So they go to Shoney's for breakfast. They go to Shoney's. No word on whether they got lollipops. That morning, Jack showed up with his nephew, Brogan. So anyway. So they go to Shoney's for breakfast. They go to Shoney's. No word on whether they got lollipops.

That morning, Jack showed up with his nephew, Brogan. No. That's a real name? Brogan. Brogan? Believe me, I caught myself trying to change it to Logan and Reagan. I mean, I hope I caught it all the time. I had to do like a, you know, control F, find that, change it out. So, yeah.

Brogan. They all ate some breakfast. Jack said, hey, let's head out to the farm. You can leave your truck and trailer in the parking lot of the food center emporium. Don't worry. You can pick up your stuff later. Scott was like cool so the three of them get into brogan's car and they're riding along the road and scott is looking at his cell phone and the

further they go the worse his service gets until finally he has no bars then jack told his nephew to pull over he said drop us where we got that deer last time. Jack told Scott, oh, we left some equipment down here by the creek. Can you help me with it? So Scott says, sure. He gets out. He follows Jack down toward the creek. But then Jack kind of looks around, and it seems like maybe he's lost.

So at this point, Jack is behind Scott. And Scott hears click. And then he hears Jack say, shit. Oh my gosh! So Scott spins around and there's Jack standing with a gun pointed in his face. So Scott throws his hands up and Jack shoots him again. This time it shattered Scott's elbow.

Oh! Oh! Yep, yep. So he turns to run, and he runs through the woods as fast as he can, kind of ducking and weaving and bobbing. The whole time, Jack kept shooting at him. Bullets whizzed by Scott,

but none of them hit. Ugh. So, Scott, like, at him bullets whizzed by scott but none of them hit oh so scott like i cannot even imagine this so scott's in the woods in this area he's not familiar with at all at all and he's terrified that brogan and jack are gonna come find him obviously yeah so he's hiding he's moving he's hiding meanwhile he's bleeding profusely oh yeah and leaving a trail yeah there's blood everywhere yeah as you like to say he said he wanted to lay down and die quite the emphasis i use when i say it but okay dramatic pause there was blood everywhere he wanted to lay down and die. Yeah. But he said just something in him urged him to stay awake.

He waited and waited. He waited until the sun started to go down so that he'd have better cover. Then he walked back to the main road. And he walked seven miles. Holy shit. With a blown out elbow just dripping blood. Yes. Huh. Eventually he found this isolated house and he went and knocked on the door.

A nine-year-old kid answered the door. Oh my God. Can you imagine? Yeah. You'd be like, what the fuck? Eventually an adult came to the door. My goodness. The adult hadn't answered it because he'd been watching Jeopardy.

Oh. Mm-hmm. Which, I gotta say, the guy was like, yeah, it was really weird to have a visitor because we don't normally have people just show up because we're on this isolated... During Jeopardy. Yeah, and it's like, so you sent the kid to go answer the door? Right. So this guy sees Scott and he's like, holy shit.

He calls 911. The sheriff shows up. Scott tells Sheriff Stephen Hannum the whole story. But the story doesn't make sense. The sheriff listened and was like, okay, you came here for a job on a 688 acre cattle ranch? I think people say it's 688. I realized that. I think that's the common pronunciation.

I left out the word acre, so it really messed me up. And that's just one of the reasons why this didn't make sense. Scott said it was a 68.8. No, so the sheriff was like, we don't have a ranch of that size around here for cattle. Like, that's just weird. And then Scott's like, oh, the guy's probably trying to steal my Harley. The sheriff was super skeptical. He figured, all right, this is obviously a drug deal gone wrong.

This guy's giving me this bullshit okay oh my gosh so the sheriff called his informants but none of them had any intel on this scott guy you know he was expecting someone would know the real story yeah then a little while later police officers found sc Scott's truck and trailer in the food center emporium, exactly where he said it would be. And then a few days later, the police got that phone call from Deb saying, hey, I think something similar happened to my brother. So the police were like, holy shit. Not only is this Scott guy telling the truth, but we might have an honest to God murderer on our hands. So they spring into action.

Both of these stories involved a Craigslist ad. So the sheriff's office called in a specialist from the FBI. They needed someone to help them figure out who had written the ad. At the same time, they got some cadaver dogs and went back to where Scott said he'd been shot. And that's where they found David's body. They also found an empty grave nearby, which was meant for Scott. Yeah.

Which, oh, man. I mean, I guess by that point, Scott had already been through so much, but I just cannot imagine knowing. Yeah, no shit. Oh. They were like, oh, my God, we've got to find whoever did this right away. Oh, yeah. So they went through the surveillance footage from Scott's breakfast meeting with Jack. They worked and worked and worked to ID the guy in the footage.

OK, some news sources said he looked like Santa Claus. I disagree. I think he looked like a bloated Colonel Sanders because he didn't look jolly to me. He had a very, what? Very spicy. Clearly not jolly enough to be Santa. Okay, I'm going to have you look him up in a minute.

I will. And you tell me. In fact, I'm going to have you look him up in a minute. I will. And you tell me. In fact, I'm going to have you look him up right now. Okay. Pretty soon, they figured out who he was. His name was Richard Beasley. Specifically, I'm thinking of this one picture of him in court. He's got a cane.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, he does kind of look like Santa in his prison jumpsuit that's white. How do you spell Beasley? Because I'm just getting randos. How are you spelling Beasley? I don't know.

B-E-E. You gotta throw an A in there. B-E-A-S-L-E-Y. How do I spell it? B-E-E-S. Well, a hundred Richard Beasleys came up with this spelling, so don't act like I'm the crazy person. Okay, do Richard Beasley Craigslist. Oh, yeah, this guy does not look like fucking santa get out of here although those red and white stripes do read a

little a little christmas they do look a little candy cane-ish don't they yeah okay where's the there's one of him in court in a suit that i swear it's the colonel i mean yeah okay i'm looking oh... Oh, yeah, this one. This little gem right here. Oh, yeah, that's the one. Yeah, I can see that. That makes me crave a bucket right there. Yeah.

The colonel has more hair than that. This guy's thinning a bit. Okay, well, get him some extensions, and you got a dead ringer. Spoiler alert, I know how this ends now. Oh, did you think he was a good guy the whole time? Sorry for ruining it for you. Okay.

They figure out who it was. It was Richard Beasley, who, as Brandy has just now figured out, she had no idea he was a bad guy. Did you call him Paul here? Look at your face! I swear, I read through this last night. Okay, here, I'm going to read to you

from what I geniusly wrote up. Excellent. Pretty soon, they figured out who it was. His name was Richard Beasley. Next sentence. Around that same time, they figured out who had posted the Craigslist ad. It was Richard Beasley.

And two big reveals back to that. And oh, wait for it. It was the same Richard Beasley. One of his two different Richard Beasleys, one spelled at B-E-E-S-L-E-Y. So they traced the post back to a small house in Akron, Ohio. Akron, Ohio, is it?

How do you say it? Akron. Oh. Thank you. So they went to the house and a man named Joe. An acorn. In the acorn. Deep in the acorn.

And a man named Joe opened the door. He did not look like the colonel. So police were like, that's not great. Yeah. They asked him, have you ever posted any ads on Craigslist? And Joe said no. They're like, well, shit. What about in the casual encounter section, sir?

They asked him, do you know a Richard Beasley? Joe said no. They asked him, do you know a Jack? Joe said no. They asked him, do you know a jack? Joe said no. Wait, did they check to see if Joe knew any other words? Is your name Joe? No. No.

Oh, wait. I've got it figured out. Joe has been living deep in the acorn. He's been taught one word. So finally, they pull out a picture of Richard. And that's when Joe was like, oh, you mean Ralph. What? Terribly nice guy.

He was renting. Looks a bit like Santa, don't you think? So he was kind of like you were like a minute ago. He thought, great guy. He was renting a room for me for a while. Real buttoned up type of guy. Doesn't drink, doesn't cuss, doesn't smoke, goes to church. You know, I have his cell phone number right here.

You want me to call him for you? Please. And they were like, uh. Yeah. So he called Ralph and investigators traced the call. They traced it to another house in Akron, Ohio, where he was renting a room. On November 16th, a SWAT team arrested Richard at the house. Another source said that they arrested him on the street.

But I feel like SWAT team, in all the movies, the SWAT team comes to your house. They're not rolling up to him on the street. No. Yeah. So let's just go with what I've seen in movies. But police still had to find someone else. Scott had told them that Richard had a young accomplice, Brogan, the nephew. This part was real easy. Turns out Brogan was not a pseudonym.

Brogan Rafferty was a junior at Stowe Monroe Falls High School. Wow. Brogan Rafferty was a junior at Stowe Monroe Falls High School. Wow. So police drove down to the high school. They interviewed Brogan in the principal's office and they searched his home. That's not what you're expecting when you get called to the principal's office. No, I mean, you know you're in trouble, but damn.

Were you ever called to the principal's office? One time I was in elementary school. What? Yeah, but not because I was in trouble. Okay. To win an award for being so great for being so amazing no you remember how my mom's house backed up right to the elementary school yeah right yeah so they made this big deal all the time about how you weren't allowed to walk on the grass and so my mom was like just walk out of the backyard and walk to the school and i was like no i'm not allowed to because you can't walk on the grass uh-huh and so she's like no just do that and then just get off the grass like as soon as you get to the sidewalk right and i was like no it's not

allowed and so i was walking all the way down my street and around the corner and up another street so that i didn't cut through the grass you were such a rule baller yeah it was like seven yeah yeah and so I got called to the principal's office so our principal Mr. Cheeves yeah he was could tell me that I had permission to walk through the grass until I got to the sidewalk so I didn't have to walk all the way around the neighborhood to get to school that's so so sweet. It was awesome. God, that warms my heart. Yeah. He was such a good guy. He was a really good guy.

Yeah. Really great principal. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, your one trip to the principal's office is nothing like this one. So as they're talking to Brogan, they're also learning more about Richard Beasley. He was born and raised in Akron, Ohio.

Excellent. He had been in and out of prison for burglary and firearms charges. But you love, which one do you love more, burglary or firearms? Firearms. Yeah. For the record, don't own a firearm never have just a big van but by the mid-2000s he was out of prison and he turned his life around he'd found god oh yeah he was doing the lord's work killing those people

wait how did you find out that he's the bad guy so richard knew brogan's dad michael when brogan was about eight he told his dad he wanted to go to church so his dad had sole custody of brogan and didn't have a ton of time on his hands was not really into church so he said okay if you want to go to church, you can go with Richard. So for years, Richard took Brogan to church. Sometimes he'd also take his own daughter and Brogan's half-sister. So they'd go to church. He'd take them out to McDonald's after.

They'd talk about God. They'd talk about the importance of living drug-free. You know, Richard was Brogan's mentor. There's no other way of putting this. Richard was a great guy. In 2009, he started a halfway house for runaways and sex workers and drug addicts. He would drive around town looking for people to take back home and just give them some help. Don't look at me like that. I just told you he's a great guy. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I forgot. Wow. How great of him. Yeah. If they ever had legal trouble, he'd go to court with them and vouch for them to the judge. He'd say, hey, this person turned over a new leaf.

I introduced them to God. This person and God are now best friends. Don't worry. This person and God are now best friends. So life was good. At least that's how it seemed. One night, Richard picked up a woman named Amy Soller. Amy was a sex worker, and she said she was addicted to crack.

And she said that initially, Richard was like her savior. Yeah. There were a few other sex workers in the halfway house who Richard was trying to help. But after a while, Richard changed his style. Instead of keeping the women... Oh, I love that rhyme that you did. But after a while, Richard changed his style. Instead of keeping the women... Oh, I love that rhyme that you did. But after a while, Richard changed

his style. I just spat everywhere. Wonderful. Yeah. Scoot closer. Instead of keeping the women from a life of prostitution, he became their pimp. Imagine that.

And he occasionally supplied them with drugs. Weird. Yeah, total plot twist. Yeah. No one saw this coming. No, I thought he was a great guy. I know, we all did. He fooled all of us.

So in February of 2011, he got arrested on drug charges. While he was in jail, authorities caught wind of the little prostitution scheme, so they started building their case. But when he got out on bond, Richard went on the run. But being on the run is difficult. He realized that if he really wanted to not get caught, he needed a new identity. And that's when he came up with a plan. If he really wanted to not get caught, he needed a new identity. And that's when he came up with a plan.

In the post-recession era, older white dudes were kind of bummed out. They were out of work. They were feeling unsure of themselves. And Richard realized that he could take advantage of that. Oh, my gosh. So he sought out men who kind of looked like him. And he sold them a fantasy that they desperately wanted to believe in. This idea that they could have steady, manly work on an isolated farm. He sought out unmarried men who were willing to uproot their lives at a moment's notice.

So that he could take their identity? Is that the... That's how it started. Okay. By the way, one of the sources said he sought men who looked like him. I think he did that with this first guy. But like...

He was really... Maybe he thought he was getting better looking. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Thank you, thank you. His skewed view better looking. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Thank you. Thank you. His skewed view of himself. Yeah, yeah. Because none of these other dudes look like the colonel. So he asked Brogan to help him.

On to Brogan. Brogan was 16 when he was arrested for his involvement in this. And initially, he took a deal with investigators. By this point, they had enough evidence to suggest that Richard Beasley was experienced in this. But Brogan's testimony would really help their case. So they said, okay, Brogan, if you testify against Richard, we'll only charge you with complicity to murder and attempted murder

in the cases of David Pauly and Scott Davis. What kind of sentence does that carry? I don't know because this all went to shit oh okay so it was really hard to track down what exactly happened um but we'll get into it okay but initially they had this deal initially brogan talked then he was like i was coerced into talking it was this whole big thing they were like we know of two other murders we won't charge you with anything in those other murders so that was the initial agreement like i said later on he backs out of the deal so brogan talks to the police and he tells them that it all started with a man named ralph geiger when richard met ralph ralph was staying at a homeless shelter

brogan initially told investigators that Richard said he needed a new identity and that Ralph looked a lot like him and he wanted to murder him. So they drove out to that spot in the woods and Richard shot Ralph. Brogan said that he had no idea this was coming. That he was terrified and shocked

and he said he worried that if he told anybody that richard would then kill him or kill his family later on brogan's dad said he was just scared and didn't see a way out heroes aren't born at 16. yeah i kind of agree I kind of agree. I kind of agree. Yeah. So Brogan struggled quite a bit after that murder. He got moody. He wrote some poetry and got really quiet.

How was the poetry? You know, I wrote in the script that it was bad poetry, but then I started thinking about the poetry that i wrote when i was 16 i'm in no place to judge i mean i think i was critical of it because it's not really a poem it's just like basically uh i witnessed a murder and it's just kind of yeah oh that hurts yeah that's But meanwhile, so Brogan's struggling. Richard is living his best life as Ralph. He dyed his hair, got a prescription for pain meds, got a job, but was not really a fan of working.

And murder had worked out so well for him. So he thought, hey, why not murder again? But this time I murder someone who has some cool stuff so that's when he created the craigslist ad and around that time he heard about the show storage wars which this is like the second time that we're talking about reality tv shows based around storage storage so he's like neat So he starts telling people, oh, yeah, I buy stuff at auction and I sell it. So later, when he started selling stuff that belonged to these dead men, people were like, oh, right, Ralph just sells things.

That's his thing. So he killed David Polly, sold all his stuff, attempted to kill Scott Davis. But then, rather than lay low, he decided to kill Scott Davis, but then, rather than lay low, he decided to kill again. He was out of money. What else could he do? So exactly one week after he shot Scott Davis, while police were working frantically to track him down,

Richard lured another man to Ohio. This time it was Timothy Kern. He was a divorced dad of two teenage sons, and he'd recently lost his job. So Timothy saw the job posting, applied, and was super excited to get the job. He wasn't thrilled about moving away from his sons, but he thought this sounded like a good opportunity. So Timothy met Richard and Brogan, and Richard was like, So what sort of stuff did you bring with you? You mentioned in your emails that you had a laptop and a flat screen TV. And Timothy was like, Oh, well, yeah, I had that stuff. But you know, I gave that stuff to my sons. I and he basically, he showed up with like a couple trash bags full of clothes, five dollars and a pack of cigarettes. At that point, Brogan says he started to feel sick because he realized we're killing this guy for his stuff and he doesn't even have stuff.

Yeah. He loves his kids. He left everything that was valuable for his kids. So now we're literally going to kill this guy for some trash bags of clothes yeah he said i get half a pit in my stomach because as the story goes on and on i'm realizing that i'm about to help beasley do this for no reason at all not that i even wanted to do it at all but it takes like all the minimal sanity and reason out of doing this it would be like if a lion killed a zebra just to kill it just because it wanted like its hoof or something the man literally i think had five dollars in his pocket

wow this time they didn't take timothy to the usual spot in the woods obviously yeah they took him behind a shitty mall. They got parked and Richard said, hey, I lost my watch in the woods over here. Can you help me find it? So Timothy got out and Richard followed him and Richard shot Timothy five times before he died. Holy shit. Yeah.

Five times? Yeah. So I left some of this out, but my understanding is the first shot shot like, shot him in the head. And, like, he kept breathing. Oh, God. At his trial, Brogan was tried as an adult. But since he was a juvenile, the death penalty was not on the table.

In their opening statements, the defense said, There is a monster in this case. And that monster is not Brogan Rafferty. The monster in this case is Richard Beasley. They said Brogan was afraid of Richard. He was worried that Richard would hurt him or hurt his family if he went to the police. So the defense focused on what a rough life Brogan had.

Well, yeah, don't you think that's true? Yes. I totally think it's true. Yeah. We'll get to the sentencing here. I feel sorry for Brogan. I know most people don't, and I know that's probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but one of his guidance counselors testified that Brogan raised himself. When he was five years old, Brogan would get himself ready for school and walk to the bus by himself.

Oh, that's so sad. I do want to say, like, the reason that happened was because his dad was working. So, but his mom, I understand, struggled with drugs early on. So she was kind of

out of the picture. The defense also pointed out that he had no prior record. But prosecutors argued that Brogan absolutely could have done something to stop the crimes. Scott Davis was the star witness. He talked about sharing a meal with Brogan the morning he was shot. He told the whole harrowing story. And they asked him, when you met Brogan, did he seem nervous? Did he seem scared? And Scott said no. Then in November of 2012, the jury found Brogan Rafferty guilty.

At his sentencing, Brogan said that Richard was evil and deceitful. He said he wished he would have done something to stop the murders. What was he supposed to do? I mean, he was supposed to go to the police. I just think he was so young and it sounds like

he didn't have a ton of guidance and this was a man who had been grooming him. Yeah, somebody, he was a kid who didn't get a lot of attention. He finally found someone who gave him attention

and then this happened. Yeah. This guy who introduced him to religion. Yeah. Judge Lynn Callahan said that Brogan had been, quote, dealt a lousy hand in life, but he had embraced the evil. She sentenced him to life in prison without parole. Wow.

Yeah, I... Gosh, that seems harsh. I completely agree. I think he should have gotten parole. Yeah. At least, I mean... Yeah yeah i struggle oh that's tough i don't know that i yeah i think that's you just took that kid's life away and it's you were you took that kid's life away and you were expecting him to make a decision that would put his own life at risk.

Yeah. And I think that's a that's a lot to expect from a 16 year old kid. I completely agree. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's the right sentence for him. I agree that he made that he could have gone to police. He should have gone

to the police. Oh yeah, of course. But he's a scared kid thinking like if I do that he'll just kill me. I've seen him kill people. Yeah.

I think that some form of punishment yes, absolutely he should serve some time but life without parole? Yeah. Oh, man.

I can't get behind that. No. So Richard Beasley's trial was interesting. Uh-huh. In their opening statements, the prosecution talked about how Richard preyed on men who wanted a fresh start. Mm-hmm. The defense claimed that the prosecution had it all wrong. They didn't have enough evidence to convict Richard.

And plus, Richard was the victim. How's that? Oh, well, you're about to find out. I mean, and boy, are you going to be embarrassed that you thought Richard was the bad guy. Okay, all right. Lay it on me. I'm ready.

So get this. Scott Davis, the guy who supposedly survived richard's attack guess what he was not the real victim in fact he attempted to murder richard beasley oh is that how he got his elbow blown off yes yes over the course of the trial the defense would prove this to be true. Oh, okay. Richard was the victim. This was all a terrible mix-up. Uh-huh.

Also, as for those Craigslist ads, Richard didn't write those. That was, you know, like, he was being asked to write those by a violent criminal. So everybody back off, be cool, and shut up. Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Once scott davis was the prosecution's star witness he talked about getting shot in the arm running away eventually getting help then a woman named joyce grabelski testified love it She was an old friend of Richard's. She told the jury that after Richard was arrested,

she received a letter from him while he was in prison. It contained a detailed diagram leading her to where she could find Ralph Geiger's wallet. It also pointed out where she could find two laptops. Wow. He told her to find the wallet and laptops, destroy all of them, and tell two laptops. Wow. He told her to find the wallet and laptops, destroy all of them, and tell no one. Wow. He thought that was going to work?

What an idiot. Yeah. People don't think that they read your mail? Yeah. Oh, God. So this is where it gets weird. Brogan Rafferty was subpoenaed he was expected to testify there was all this talk about like maybe he would testify in exchange for getting a lighter

sentence like maybe he would be granted parole um well not granted parole but he would get life with yeah thank you but he never testified wow so, I came across this newspaper article this morning. It said there was no explanation as to why he didn't testify. Attorneys are under a gag order. So I don't know what went wrong there. Wow. Something went wrong. Or maybe prosecutors felt like we've got enough.

We don't need this testimony. I don't know. Wow. Then Richard Beasley took the stand in his own defense. Excellent. Are you ready? I am so ready. Okay, get ready to hear from the victim.

He told the jury that he was not the one who pulled the gun on Scott Davis. In fact, Scott Davis pulled the gun on him. He told the jury, I about urinated in my pants. I about urinated in my pants? He asked Scott, why? He says Scott told him, brother, you're a weak link. What?

You want to know what happened? So you see, Scott wanted to murder him because he'd been a police informant in a motorcycle gang investigation. Oh, okay. Richard told the jury, I was a snitch. I admit it, I was a snitch, and that's why Scott wanted me dead. Mm-hmm. You know what they say.

Snitches get stitches. And wind up in ditches. Almost happened. Mm-hmm. So he said that they wrestled with each other scott fired the gun six times but it only fired a bullet once and that bullet hit scott in his own elbow yeah scott shot himself because they were struggling brandy don't make that face like you're not buying this i'm not buying this is 100 what happened okay okay you ready for the craziest part yeah the jury ate it up shut up they were like wow we cannot believe this so they let him go they did not you fucking liar you liar oh god i wanted to oh i wanted to

holy shit oh my god i couldn't keep the smile off my face oh no they thought he was full of shit so richard mom richard's mom carol testified that he'd had a rough childhood and that his stepfather abused him the defense called a psychologist to the stand who said that Richard suffered from low self-esteem and depression and alcohol abuse. Which I would think, in the face of these kind of charges, getting up and being like,

this person has low self-esteem, I think that's just embarrassing. Yeah, exactly. Get the fuck out of here. And the prosecution was like, sad story. I've got an even more sad story, though. Three men are dead. for no reason the jury deliberated and they found him guilty excellent are you surprised

they didn't believe no man okay i some kind soul uploaded his testimony to youtube it is freaky stuff he's very convincing i mean the story did you start to think like oh my gosh no this poor guy's in prison for no reason his story is such clear bullshit yeah but the way he delivers it you can see that if he had like more believable material yeah you would be like, yeah. You could just see why people fell for his shit. So he was sentenced to death. But Richard didn't like that one bit. He appealed, and his case went all the way

to the Ohio Supreme Court! So the judges were like, nah, dude. Went all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court. So the judges were like, nah, dude. They voted unanimously that the evidence presented at trial was enough to convict him. And they voted six to one that the death sentence was appropriate. A few months ago, Richard announced that he wanted his case heard by the United States. Supreme Court! Here's why. I think this is kind of interesting.

He said, so Ohio Supreme Court Justice Patrick DeWine is the son of Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine. So Richard's attorneys are arguing that Justice DeWine should have recused himself from the case when it came before the Supreme Court. Because the Ohio Attorney General's office assisted with Richard's prosecution and argued the case in the Supreme Court. Yeah. I can see that. I mean. But isn't the Attorney General's office almost always going to be involved? Yeah, there's no way for them not to be involved.

Yeah. And I can see that it's a place for argument. I don't think there's probably any way to. Yeah. Win that one. Yeah. Richard's attorney, Donald Gaelic, said, we see a conflict of interest when your father's office is arguing a case before you. I can see it if your father was arguing it i don't know yeah depends on your relationship with your dad yeah in the meantime brogan has also appealed he said that his initial confession

was coerced and that he didn't get a chance to argue that he acted under pressure in the murders or under duress yeah but in 2015 an appellate court disagreed really yeah i just i i sorry i just said really right into my bottle oh that's perfect i think that's gonna sound weird it's okay we're not recording audio here or anything. It doesn't matter, right? No, I felt really... Some places called them the Craigslist killers. And no, I really don't think that's fair. I don't think that's fair either. He should absolutely have gotten some form of punishment, but I just think it was really harsh.

I just kind of wish that Brogan had had an attorney right from the get-go. I don't think this would have turned out the same. Yeah. That's the story of the other Craigslist killer. Wow. So what I'm reminded of with Brogan is Brendan Dassey. Yeah. Who I think Brendan Dassey had way less involvement than Brogan did.

Yeah. But I think it's. Well, I think Brendan Dassey had zero. Zero involvement whatsoever. And Brogan had some involvement. Yeah. Yeah. I also don't think Stephen Avery did it.

Have you seen the new season? I have not seen the new season yet. Okay. So, no. I don't think he new season yet. Okay. So, no. I don't think he did it either. Okay. But I have not seen the new season yet, so I'll reserve my full judgment until after I see it.

His new lawyer in this season, I want to sit at her feet and listen to her stories all day long. I think she is amazing. I'm hoping people know who we're talking about at this point. Oh, sure. Surely. Yeah. If you're listening to this podcast.

You surely have heard of Making a Murderer. Have you heard of crime? Have you ever heard of a crime? Slightly random, but related do you remember the big hubbub when um john travolta was at the oscars and he was supposed to introduce yeah adina menzel yeah and he called her adele dazeem so when that happened they started these like there was this thing going around like on the internet that was like a name generator. Like, what would John Travolta call you?

And mine was broken. Really? He would call me broken. Yes. I love that you have remembered that and you saved it for this very moment. I did. I knew that little tidbit would come in handy someday. Just took that little acorn away for winter took it to ohio took

it to acorn ohio oh something i have wanted to discuss on the podcast you guys we hit it big a little while ago and by that i mean we got our first totally off base sponsorship email. Huge. This is huge. Our kids are going to love it. So get this. So Norman gets these emails all the time. And I think they're hilarious.

They're like, a company has clearly spent money to send out a mass email, which these things are not cheap to do. No, they're expensive. And we'll get these emails that are like, we think your audience would be super into scented candles and you should do a review of scented candles and it's like oh my god never first of all our audience is 97 percent male yeah and a review of scented candles yeah on the gaming historian right break. No. So we got an email saying that they were really impressed with our YouTube show, which at the time we had 15. I was gonna say 22 subscribers.

Yeah. Yeah. So very impressive numbers there. We're really really they've been keeping track of us. They wanted us to review fishing equipment for children. Yeah. Yeah. And they were sure that our kids were going to love it. Because they wanted us to review fishing equipment for children. Yeah. Yeah.

And they were sure that our kids were going to love it. On our explicit true crime podcast. So really looking forward to doing that. Can't wait to get those kids fishing equipment. I'm just going to start going to ponds. See if there's any kids I can talk to gonna be the adult woman with the kids fishing equipment what is that not a well thought out plan oh it just seems a little creepy seems like you'd be the next subject of the podcast something has happened this week okay something that we've been hoping and wishing and praying for we reached oh yeah 100 ratings and reviews on itunes we are so excited it was so exciting

so our goal was to hit 100 by christmas yeah we were super excited hoping it would happen and holy crap we you guys knocked out of the park we got a month till christmas so now we're gonna get greedy now we want 10 000 if we have to do it fraudulently we will we will we are not afraid to pay for reviews just kidding not true we're too cheap we're way too cheap for that also ethics yes the ethics are really the big part and then also that we're super super frugal yeah and some might say stingy but thank you to everyone who helped us reach our goal and left us a rating left us a review that was so awesome we were super excited when we hit 100 like okay so i sent kristen a text message

and i meant to send her 100 balloon emojis but i miscounted and only sent her 90 so and i got excited because i thought she meant to send like 99 red balloons like the song turns out i totally missed the point no but we okay we're like chris and david with the you know yeah times a day times a day that's right we're such nerds that at this point i don't know that we should admit this i don't tell people what nerds we are kristen they don't know let's just tell people we check to see we when we were trying to reach that hundred goal we were checking way too often to see if we'd reached it yet i mean i was really casual about it brandy was oh Okay. I'm so sure. I was only on there 20 times a day. No, we're super excited.

It's really cool to get feedback from people. So we appreciate it a lot. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to everyone who did that. Anything new going on with you? Not a damn thing.

Things are real lame over here real boring uh huh okay trying to think if there's anything new with me Kristen

uh huh my mustache question kristen uh-huh my mustache okay um you guys brandy is wearing a sweatshirt and she has like the little string uh pushed up against her upper lip like a mustache yes and then i said i must ask you a question i really do have a question for you okay christmas is nearing it is it's time to get the christmas shopping wrapped up i've got a good amount of mine done but i'm still looking for a couple of like gaming historian t-shirts yeah i was gonna say like a couple of items gaming historian t-shirts yeah I was going to say like a couple of items I think people will really treasure for a lifetime

and so I thought automatically gaming historian t-shirt well here's the thing you buy a gaming historian t-shirt for just $10 at gaminghistorian.com we throw in a scented candle which we're going to review on the channel any minute now

scented candle not included which we're going to review on the channel any minute now. Scented candle not included. Scented candle is a total lie. So you're saying if I headed over to thegaminghistorian.com right now, I could pick up one of his amazing t-shirts in the retro style or the other one the classic style for the low price of ten dollars and you wouldn't have to just pick up one you could get 20 whoa so head on over there and get yours today boom and then while you're on the internet doing that why don't you stop on over to our social media today. Boom. And then while you're on the internet doing that, why don't you stop on over to our social media? Find us on Twitter. Find us on Instagram. Find

us on Facebook. We're in all of those places. Then, then, don't stop now. Hold on. Hold on. But wait, there's more. You're already on your computer. Hop on over to iTunes. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review if you haven't done so already. And then join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts.

For this episode, I got my info from Murder by Craigslist by Hannah Rawson in The Atlantic, an episode of Monster in My Family, as well as articles from Cleveland.com. And I got my info from People Magazine, CNN, The Colorado Inn, and Denver 7 News. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.