Let's Go To Court! - 61: The Ha Ha Tonka Castle and the Acid Doctor

Episode Date: March 27, 2019

When Kansas City businessman Robert McClure Snyder ordered the construction of Ha Ha Tonka Castle, he thought he was building the ultimate vacation home. In a way, he was. Robert spared no expense for his massive home. Construction began in the early 1900s, and at one time, boasted a construction crew of 200 people. But the Ha Ha Tonka dream home ultimately became a nightmare for the Snyder family. Then, Kristin horrifies us with the story of Dr. Geza de Kaplany. Geza felt certain that his wife, Hajna Piller, was cheating on him. He didn’t have any evidence, but that didn’t shake his certainty. So what did Geza do? He loaded up a suitcase with a butcher knife, three bottles of acid, and restraints, and waited for his wife to come home. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The Acid Doctor,” by David Krajicek The Daily News “Geza gets life, wants to atone,” The Oakland Tribune The book, “Doctors Who Kill: Profiles of Lethal Medics,” by Carol Anne Davis “Mother of DeKaplany’s son called,” Oakland Tribune “State rebuttal — De Kaplany sane,” Oakland Tribune “Dramatic ‘pretty girl’ De Kaplany photo,” Oakland Tribune “De Kaplany shifts to guilty plea,” Oakland Tribune “De Kaplany yells at psychiatrist,” Oakland Tribune “Doctor held after acid scars,” Milwaukee Sentinel “Geza de Kaplany,” wikipedia entry “Slashed bride better,” Associated Press In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “James A. Reed: Legendary Lawyer; Marplot in the United States Senate” by J. Michael Cronan “The tragic story of the mansion and the Snyder family” by Paul Johns, The Christian County Headliner “MOzarks Moments: The senator, the seamstress, the gangster and Ha Ha Tonka” by Paul Johns, Bolivar Herald-Free Press “The Lake on Trial” by Michael Gillespie, lakehistory.info

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about the acid doctor. And I'll be talking about the Snyder family, Ha Ha Tonka, and the Lake of the Ozarks. Oh my God. Okay. Everyone in the Midwest is excited for yours. Holy crap. Ha-ha-tonga. That's the... The crazy castle. Yes, yes. Wait, is the Snyder family the one that like had it built for them?

That's correct. Oh my God. Oh my God. That's correct. Okay. So I was going to do a different case this week. I actually researched a different case and had a really gruesome murder in it. And I was like, I don't want to fucking talk about that.

And so then I was like, let me find something more lighthearted. So this is lighthearted. It's old timey. It has local connections and it's got a familiar player. I'm so pumped. I do have to say, though, it feels like a familiar player. So. I'm so pumped. I do have to say, though, it feels like we have reversed. Because, man, if you want some gore, if you want something gruesome. Yes, your case is.

Stick around for mine. Oh, God. Yep. Well, I'm glad I didn't do mine then. Thank God. It would have been awful. I'm still going to do it because I did a bunch of research into it. But I was like, I don't feel like talking about this right now.

Okay. Real quick before I jump in here. Also, this is unlike any case I've ever covered before. And people are going to be like, why the fuck did you pick this case? Like, this is not a Brandy case. But it's a fun change pace. Hey, you know what? Maybe people were like, oh, my God, it's more of a's a fun change pace hey you know what maybe people were like

oh my god it's more of a kristin case this is so nice probably we love kristin hashtag team kristin um okay on a serious note real quick the episode where i tell people what has been going on in my life just came out like hours ago at this point that we're recording and the support that people are giving me and us as a podcast has been unbelievable and amazing and thank you everybody for your tweets and your messages and your kind words it like seriously just gives us life thank you you deserve it thank you i mean seriously like i knew i knew our listeners would be really supportive and would want to reach out to you and they have yeah it's like so we appreciate that because i think you know you've been through some shit and yes

one day you'll write a tell-all book but for now it's nice to see some kind tweets. That's right. It's been really, really awesome. So thank you. Thank you, everybody. All right. Let's talk about a story that's got some Kansas City connections. It's old-timey.

And as I mentioned, someone we know and love will make an appearance. James A. Reid. Spoiler alert. It had to be James A. Reid. Yes. Okay. Robert Snyder had his hands in all kinds of business. Born in Indiana in 1852, he was subjected to pressure to follow in the footsteps

of his family and become a fourth generation miller. But at 21, Robert began working as a bookkeeper instead. In 1875, he married and moved to St. Louis, where he worked as a merchandise broker, whatever the fuck that is. And in 1876, the Snyders welcomed their first child, a boy they named Robert Jr., and things were good for the young family. Until the following year, when Robert's wife died. Of what? I don't know, but it was 1877. So she probably died of like a fucking splinter or some shit. She died of 1800s.

Yes. In 1879, Snyder remarried and moved to Kansas. He and his wife welcomed three more sons. And Robert started a wholesale grocery business. By 1882, Robert's business interests were branching out. He tried his hands at banking and real estate in Kansas City, and he was a success. In 1890, he started the Mechanics Bank, and then later the Banker's Life Insurance Company. From there, he went on to serve as the president of the National Bank of Commerce, as secretary treasurer of the Kansas City Cattle Company, as vice president of the Detroit and Lima Railway Company, and as director of the Bond Shoe Company.

Jeez. So when I say he had his hands in all kinds of business, he truly did. That's crazy. It's crazy. Yes. And that wasn't the end of it. In 1894, he started the Missouri Gas Company. Oh, my God.

Yes. Which secured a contract with the city to supply natural gas to customers in Kansas City at a rate 60% lower than the competition. Well, wow. Yeah. So Robert had this great plan to drill for natural gas in southern Kansas, where it would be cheaper, and then pipe it back to the city. And so this is crazy.

When he was drilling for natural gas, he struck oil. What? Yes. for natural gas, he struck oil. What? Yes. And the well produced 500 barrels of oil a day. Okay, this is like, do you know the story of how they made Viagra?

No. They were trying to make like heart medicine or something. And they ended up accidentally making Viagra. Everybody's got raging boners. So, yeah, they wanted gas and these two, they got oil. That's amazing. So if all of those business ventures hadn't been paying off for dear old Robert, the Snyders were certainly set now. No kidding. But in 1896, tragedy struck Robert again when his second wife died.

A bigger splinter. Yeah, a giant splinter. So now Robert was rich, and that was great and everything. But he also had four sons. Asterisk next to four sons, because this is old-timey, so it's hard. Like, conflicting information is in different articles. He may have had three sons may have had four i don't understand why didn't you get an exact number it's really difficult to

find this information i feel like i'm talking to myself right now exactly so he had some sons he needed to take care of and he was on his own he managed for a while and I'm sure he had all the help that money could buy. But at the turn of the century, like the literal turn of the century, January 1st, 1900, he remarried to his third wife,

a woman from Boston named Sybil McKenzie. By this time, Robert was 47. Oh no. And Sybil McKenzie. By this time, Robert was 47. Oh, no. And Sybil. 20. Was 18.

Ew! She was five years younger than his oldest son. Yeah. That is gross. Yeah, it's pretty gross. Ugh. Yeah. Yeah.

That is gross. Yeah, it's pretty gross. Ugh. Yeah. The Snyder family was once again doing super great. Robert, his sons, his child bride, they were just killing it in Kansas City in the 1900s. Mm-hmm. They were super involved in the Independence Boulevard Christian Church, and they made contributions to many other churches in Kansas City.

But, as it turned out, not everything in the Snyder family was quite on the up and up. Really? You don't say. As I mentioned, Robert Snyder had moved to Kansas City from St. Louis. But after that move, he had continued to do some sneaky business in St. Louis. One of those business dealings included a bribe of $250,000. How much in today's dollars? Adjusted for inflation. It's just over $7.6 million. Whoa.

Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. million dollars. Whoa. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah.

So that bribe went to members of the St. Louis Municipal Assembly to secure a contract that would allow him to run rail tracks through St. Louis pretty much anywhere he wanted to. And the streetcar business was booming at this time. Yeah. So it was a super lucrative position that Robert Snyder found himself in after securing that contract. Well, he didn't find himself in it. He bribed his way into it, but okay. So what did Robert do with that contract? Why he turned around and sold it to United Railways, a streetcar company, for $1,250,000. Good grief. Which, adjusted for inflation?

$11 billion. $38 million. Oh my god. Oh. Yeah. What do you even do with all that money? Right? Yeah.

What do you even do with all that money? Right. So what I don't know is exactly how word of this bribe got out. My guess is probably that United Railways figured out that they had overpaid for this contract by a million dollars and got pissed. And that's how it got out. But that's just a guess. But somehow people found out about this bribe, and on April 5th, 1902, Robert Snyder was indicted for bribery. Wow. Yeah.

His trial for bribery charges began in September of 1902, and his defense was simple. He didn't necessarily deny the bribes. He simply argued that the statute of limitations had run out on them. Oh, I hate that. I hate that. The statute of limitations for bribery at this time was three years. And these bribes had taken place in 1898, almost four years ago. Well, shit. I mean, he's right. Case closed.

Thank you. Goodbye. Have a great day. See you never. But of course the prosecution was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's pump the brakes there, buddy. Uh-huh. Yes. Technically, four years have passed. But, uh, hey

there, judge. Hear us out on this. We believe we are still within the statute because Mr. Snyder travels out of the state quite frequently. So really, any time he's out of the state for an extended amount of time, like all of those times he set up residence at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City, the statute should be paused because it's not like we could prosecute him at that time. OK, I'm I'm on their side, but that is just ridiculous. I like so every time that he is staying somewhere long enough that he's establishing it as a residence that should pause the statute puts a hold on it so now it's been extended and we are well within it judge see i would almost think a better argument i don't know that it's a better legal argument but what about like

shouldn't the statute of limitations not start when the crime occurs it's when you when it's known when it's known, when it's known. Yeah. And I think that's how it works now. Okay. But I don't think it is. Cause like all these certain crimes, it is all these sex crimes.

It's like people come forward as adults and everyone. Yeah. Yeah. But because that's what they, they say, like if you told anybody at that time that started the statute, I like, have you watched the keepers?

They talk about this in the keepers. The keepers was amazing, but in the keepers the keepers was amazing but it made me want to rip my hair out horrifying yes yeah um it's on netflix if you haven't seen it folks definitely check it out it's horrifying but really well done yeah so the prosecution lays out this their their argument to the judge. And the judge is like, uh-huh, uh-huh, I see what you're saying. All right, I'll agree that we're within the statute. Okay.

Yeah, so the trial moved forward. And Robert Snyder was convicted and sentenced to five years in prison. Wow. Yeah. He didn't serve time. He immediately appealed his conviction all the way to the Missouri Supreme Court. And while his appeal was working its way through the legal system, he was released on bail. It was while he was out on bail that Robert first visited Ha Ha Tonka. So Ha Ha Tonka Lake was a two acre lake near Camden, Missouri, filled with trout. It had a small dam and the

water flowed into the Niangua River. Really beautiful piece of property. Above the lake was this large cliff. And on that cliff, Robert Snyder envisioned making his estate. Yeah. It had breathtaking views, lots of mature trees. It was exactly what he envisioned for setting up what would become his family's legacy. Yeah. And so he bought the property in 1905 and set about building a $40,000 mansion, which, adjusted for inflation, is about $1.1 million.

Okay, that's not as impressive as I thought it would be. No. That's just for the mansion. Yeah. And it's definitely added on as they went. Hold on. Yes. Have we been there together?

I don't know. It's funny. Like, we went kind of everywhere as a kid. And I know I've been to Ha Ha Tonka. Yeah. I don't think we've been together. Yeah. So this property would come to be known as Ha Ha Tonka Castle.

Snyder had very specific ideas about how he wanted this mansion to look. His dream was to build a structure reminiscent of a European castle in the Ozark Mountains. So he enlisted Kansas City architect Adrience Van Brunt to design the mansion. And he brought in stonemasons from Scotland to ensure the authenticity of the work. Oh, my God. A quarry was set up on the property and stones were hauled up to the bluff, first by mules and later by cable drawn railroad cars. Good grief. By the end of 1905, there were more than 200 men working on the mansion.

They were also creating stables and a water tower. It was a huge undertaking. creating stables and a water tower. It was a huge undertaking. When the Snyders themselves wanted to visit the property to check on the progress, they had to take like a night train from Kansas City to Springfield, change lines there, and then take another train to Lebanon, Missouri. And then there in Lebanon, Robert Snyder had his own horses and carriage stowed. And so they would get off the train, get in the carriage, and take the carriage the rest of the way to the property.

That sounds like a pain in the ass. It sounds like a giant pain in the ass. Okay. But this is exactly what he wanted. This is what he'd always envisioned, a place where his family could enjoy summers and holidays and overlook the beauty of this pond. They could hunt, they could fish, they could enjoy nature. So here's a side note that doesn't necessarily fit in here, but doesn't really fit in anywhere. And I really wanted to put it in here. Okay.

So I read one place that said that there was an Indian burial ground on the bluff and that during construction of the mansion, they had to, they unearthed many skeletons that they had to relocate. Yes. Hmm. It's bad juju. Uh-huh. It's not great. It's not great. Ha-ha-tonka is an Osage Indian phrase, and it means like laughing waters or something

like that. Uh-huh. So progress continued on the mansion, but as it always seemed to follow them, tragedy struck the Snyder family again in 1906. In January of that year, Carrie Snyder, one of Robert's sons, was found murdered in Oregon. He had been kind of a stain on the family name because he was convicted of robbing a Kansas City pawn shop of more than $5,000 in jewelry a couple years earlier. Why? Why? Right? Why? Why?

That's just a personality defect. Oh, yeah. Because you know he didn't need the money. Exactly. So his murder was believed to be linked to a bank robbery that he was involved in with a gang of crooks in Oregon. Good grief. Yeah. Yeah.

So by this time, the Missouri Supreme Court had decided to overturn Robert's conviction and they ordered him a new trial. They said that the lower court had erred in instructing the jury about the statute of limitations and that like the judge had told them they'd made an exception in the case and that should not have been told to the jury. That should not have been told to the jury. Well, so are they saying, so they're just saying that the court erred. They're not saying statute of limitations was up. Correct. They're just saying the court erred. Okay.

Yeah. Such a long, drawn-out process. Oh, yeah. They also said that the prosecution had biased the jury by stating in their closing argument that robert snyder choosing not to testify at his trial clearly meant he did not deny the accusations against him you can't say that you can't say that i mean prosecutors made that mistake back in the day and they still make that mistake they do you're allowed not to fuck yourself over in court. That's correct. So Snyder's second trial was scheduled to begin

in September of 1906. But it was delayed when the councilman who had received the bribe failed to show up at trial to testify. Oopsies. Yes.

And so the second trial was delayed and ultimately it would never take place. Because on October 27, 1906, tragedy struck the Snyder family once again. Robert Snyder died in an unusual accident. I know this. You do? Yes.

It was 630 p.m. on Saturday evening and Robert was being driven home by his chauffeur. The car was speeding along down the street at a top speed of 10 miles an hour. Oh, my God. Can people even think that fast? When suddenly a little boy, either, there's conflicting information on this, either riding a bike or pulling a wagon okay um one or the other um suddenly like came out into the street and so the chauffeur had to swerve the car suddenly at the last second to miss him well this is like um it's like an old like model a car well yeah it's 1906 yeah it's 1906 so it's like an open body so So when he swerves, Robert Schneider's thrown out of the car. Yeah.

And he hits his head on an iron trolley post and cracks his skull open and dies. Oh, God. Yeah. Okay. I knew he died in a car accident. I didn't know he died that way. That's terrible. It is one of the first, if not the first, traffic accident fatality in Kansas City. See, I thought it was the first in America.

Is that? So one article says it's the first in Kansas City. One of it says one of the first in America. Okay. Yeah. Something. Yes. It was.

I mean, not very many people had cars yet so I would believe that it is the first well you do think about like that's a huge it's a huge shift because then all of a sudden kids can't go running around wherever they want people can't just walk wherever they want because there are freaking cars coming at them

hurling at them at 8 miles an hour the little boy also died in the accident super sad I'm hurling at them at eight miles an hour. The little boy also died in the accident. Yeah. Super sad. Poor little guy. Robert Snyder was 54 years old at the time of his death. So the task of finishing the mansion was left up to Snyder's sons.

And immediately they had the roof finished so that the mansion would be protected from the elements. And then work on the mansion came to a complete standstill. Like by 1907, no more work was being completed on it at all. The boys couldn't decide what to do and it just became a bigger task than they were willing to deal with and the mansion stood there unfinished for the next like 13 years what about the child bride did she not get any of like the money or what did it all sure she got some of the money yeah but it all really came down to the sun yeah they were left in charge of the project okay and the three

of them were like or four all three or three or four however many there might have been the one died so okay yeah who knows how many there were at some point they actually attempted to sell the property back to the state as a park and they're like yeah we don't really want this anymore can you guys take it back and the state was like no thanks like there's Like, there's a half-completed mansion on it. Yeah. That's not like a real great park. And we heard you really upset that Indian burial ground.

It is so, like, arrogant. Oh, it totally is. Like, well, we kind of fucked this up but uh it's our gift to you now yeah exactly this trash yeah so finally in the 1920s the sons decided that they would finish the property and the 60 room mansion was completed in 1922 robert j. lived in the home after its completion and the rest of the family stayed there often for summers and holidays.

But all of that would change in 1929 with the creation of the Lake of the Ozarks. Oh! So in 1929, actually like in the 1920s, these these laws started getting passed in the United States that would allow electric companies to start forming like hydroelectric plants. And so Union Electric decided that it was going to create the Lake of the Ozarks,

which is a manmade lake that you and I have been to. Many times. Many times. It's a very popular... It doesn't sound classy, and it's not. It's not. But it's all we got. Perhaps you've seen the Netflix show Ozark, which is set at the Lake of the Ozarks.

And pretty accurate. There are nice areas. There's very expensive homes on parts of the lake. Yeah. But it's a man-made lake, and it was created by creating the Bagnell Dam, which is a hydroelectric plant. So in 1929, 1930, Union Electric started buying up properties where the lake would be because it was going to flood this entire area. And most of the people that lived there were very poor and didn't have the ability to fight Union Electric. And so they just took the money and they left.

Yeah. So initially, Union Electric was going to flood just a portion of the Snyder's property. So their property is like separated up into like different tracts of land. And so it was determined that like four of them would be flooded. And so they were offered $143,000 for that portion of their land. Which I'm sure was a much better rate than what the poor people got. Oh, I'm sure it was. Which I didn't adjust that for inflation.

Let me do that real quick. What the hell, Brandy? $2.5 million, right? Almost. Ooh. Yeah, $2.2. Did you just pull that number out of your butt? Don't worry about where i pulled it out

so they initially took that money uh-huh and then the project went on the lake was created and all of a sudden it was very different than what union electric had promised them because the way that damming the river worked and the creation of the lake, the lake waters would ebb and flow. So it'd be higher at different times, lower at different times. When the water was lower, it would create these large areas of like... A mud pit? Of mud, yeah.

Exactly. That completely detracted from the beauty of their property. And it also swamped their trout lake. Yeah, it created just like muddy conditions. It totally like flushed out all the trout, like made it unf into that, their little trout lake, and it totally flooded that out, marshed it all up. So they it created serious problems that they weren't aware were going to happen. Right, right. And so they were like, no, fuck this. Like, you need to give us more money. And Union Electric was like, no, you agreed to $143,000. And so the Snyders looked at them and they said, let's go to court.

I'm so excited. I don't know any about it. The only thing I knew about this story was I can picture Ha Ha Tonka Mansion in my head. And I knew that, well, I knew an exaggerated fact that was like the first guy to ever die and maybe he was let's say he was i think he was at the very least i think for sure he was the first person to die in a car accident in kansas city well that's a lot lamer brandy it's not the first person in america versus the first person in kansas Like, come on. And really it was him exiting the car that caused the death.

Okay, you can't call that an exit. I guess that's true. That is like... That is terrible. Alright, forget i said that i'm gonna ask the jury to strike that from the record please the snyders take union electric to court civil court and they sued them for 1.3 million dollars in damages wow okay which adjusted for inflation also did not calculate what the hell which i did the early

ones and then i guess i was like who cares 19 million dollars whoa yeah 19 million dollars in today's money these people are obnoxious yeah so So both sides got a crazy amount of representation. Sure. Representing the Snyders was our friend. You know him. You love him. You've heard of his road. None other than James A. Reid.

Sorry, I messed that up. No, it's totally fine. It's totally fine. So I read this. And I don't think we've talked about this before um but i read this when i was researching this that he when he was a prosecutor he prosecuted something like 287 cases okay and he won 285 whoa that is nuts yeah that's crazy yeah dude was good yes so now he was not married to nelly don at this time right this is too early too early i think yeah yeah yeah well it's 1930 when did he marry her oh shit oh hang on yeah i'm i'm moving my stuff

this i think that would have been right around the kidnap yeah i think it is Oh, hang on. Yeah. I'm moving my stuff. I think that would have been right around the kidnapping. Yeah, I think it is. Okay, hold on. She had his child in 1931. Okay, so this trial started November 30th, 1931. Oh, my God. Okay, so he's got this secret.

Yes. Okay. Yeah, and then 1932, Nell divorced her shitty husband. Uh-huh, and Laura died. Yeah, and then remarried. Okay, hang on. When did the kidnapping happen? Okay. Her abduction took place December 16th, 1931.

Holy shit. And when did you say this november 30th 1931 too much was happening whoa wait i didn't make that connection remember he has to leave a trial it's not this one oh my god it's not this one i was so excited because like it all clicked this trial only takes 17 days oh my god yeah all i could remember was like oh my god he was away on business for another trial he had to come back oh my god, he was away on business for another trial. He had to come back. Oh my god. He was away on business, though, because this trial

took place in Jefferson City. So he did have to go to Jefferson City, but this is not the trial he had to recuse himself from. That's nuts! I didn't even put together that it was at the same time! The passion is real. My heart was pounding. Oh my God.

Okay. We love our old timey Kansas City figures here on this podcast. So he comes in and of course gives like, I don't know, like a six hour opening.

Oh yeah. Argument. And he's got a whole presentation about the beauty of Ha Ha Tonka. He's got a whole presentation about the beauty of Ha Ha Tonka. He's got a scale model out of plaster of Paris made of it so that the jury can see it. It's crazy. The trial itself, super fucking boring. Okay, yeah.

They talk about engineering and land values and more snooze fest. No blood in sight. There's no blood at all. But he brings in a couple of really interesting witnesses. Okay. So one of them, their star witness, was Gutzon Borglum. Oh, my. It's a mouthful of a name, but it might sound familiar to you.

It doesn't. It didn't sound familiar to me either, but he's a very well-known person. Really? He actually had to take leave from his job at that time to come testify at this trial because he is the creator of Mount Rushmore. What? Yes. Oh, my God.

Yes. Whoa. Yes. He designed Mount Rushmore and he was overseeing its completion at the time of this trial. He had to leave South Dakota and come to Missouriouri to testify that is so cool yes okay oh my god so he testifies that ha ha tonka is one of the most beautiful places he's ever seen in the entire world okay oh cool it buddy right i mean come on i'm not wrong right and he said that prior to the lake of the ozarks um flooding out the area that he would have valued the property at 1.5 million dollars

but now with all of that flooding and all of that mud and everything 165 000 probably okay this is that's ridiculous and so he valued every tree on the property at like a hundred dollars a piece and union electric cut down like six thousand trees in preparing the area to be able to be flooded for the creation of the lake. So clearly, clearly they owed them that, you know, that's clearly $1.3 million in damages. Okay, what was he getting from this? I don't know. He truly believed it was the most beautiful place on earth, Kristen. No, he didn't.

No, he didn't. Kristen, you have been there. Exactly. Now, granted, I wasn't there before the Lake of the Ozarks came along. Correct. Yes. Okay, I know I'm going to offend some people with this, but I'm going to start it by saying I was born in Missouri. Yes.

I live in Missouri. Yes. And I am going to tell you right now, unequivocally, the most beautiful place on earth is not and has never been in missouri not to say we don't have nice beautiful places here but i would i would agree that probably the most beautiful place on earth is not here i it's in johnson county kansas i see it every morning when I open my front door. This is shady. This is too weird.

This is the creator and architect behind Mount Rushmore. Yeah. And he's very talented. And I admire that. But he's wrong. Yeah. I think he's wrong. All right. that but he's wrong yeah i think he's wrong all right so in contrast the power company presented their star witness whose name was william wellett jr and he was some kind of congressman or something

and he testified that ha ha tonka's value had actually increased in value because of the lake. Oh, so they're both foolish. Yes. And he said that he was a real estate expert. And his testimony went really, really well. People were eating it up. And then James A. Reed gets up there. gets up there and he gets willett to admit that he had served time in prison on some kind of crazy charge uh-huh and that um he had offered to testify for the snyders for a fee uh-huh yes uh-huh yeah

yeah that sounds about right right so i'm not gonna go into any more testimony than that like yeah you've covered the highlights yeah exactly yes that's all we do on this podcast final arguments were fucking crazy were they 20 hours oh yeah a day and a half of final arguments too much so sid roach was like an attorney who was he was like co-counsel with James A. Reed. And he took the beginning of the closing arguments. And he got up there and he got so impassioned that he collapsed in court and died of a heart attack. No. Oh, my God.

I was laughing. Did you see that? I thought you were going to say he was like carried out on a stretcher. He died of a heart attack that is terrible yes and one thing i read said that james a reed wasn't in court that day because he was like bedridden with an illness and he had to like jump out of bed and come to court and finish the closing argument the following day. Oh my God. Yes. Is that not crazy? That's terrible.

Yes. It's nuts. The power company's closing arguments wasn't nearly as exciting. Nobody died of any heart attacks. Everyone lived. And they said that the amount that Union Electric had originally paid represented fair market value and that the Snyders were looking for nothing more than

inflated claims on a property in order to just get some profit off of some land that they were stuck with. They, none of these sons wanted this ridiculous mansion. Yeah. They were stuck with it. And now here was a way to make some money. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Because I bet it was crazy to maintain that oh i'm sure 60 rooms i'm sure yeah so the jury deliberated for like that whole night and then part of the following day and they

ended up finding in whose favor um i'm gonna say say Union Electric or Pacific or whatever. Union Electric. They actually found in the Snyder's favor. Really? Yes. But they only awarded $350,000 in damages. That's still a lot. It's still a lot.

Yeah. But, of course, Union Electric appealed it. The appeals went on for years. Yeah. union electric appealed it the appeals went on for years yeah and finally it was um brought down to like two hundred thousand dollars which didn't even cover the legal costs that the Snyder's had racked up during all of this oh man so during all of this time uh Robert jr had lived at the mansion at ha ha tonka after trial, the Snyder family finances were pretty much depleted. They didn't have any money. Robert Snyder Jr. was super sick and he had been

living alone. And so he had become like a rare book collector during that time. Do you know this? No. Okay. So it's really interesting. He was super into rare manuscripts, rare books, but specifically about like Missouri history and stuff like that. And so he amassed this crazy rare book collection. But he ended up dying at like, I don't know, he died in 1937. So he was fairly young. But before that, he donated all of his books um to the university of kansas city which would later become umkc and they were they were housed in a enclosed stacks in that library it's called the snyder collection and like a seat like you have to it, there's like a designated librarian just for that section. Like they're super rare, very valuable books.

Yeah. Whoa. So the reason he moved out of the mansion is that they ended up having to sell it. And they sold it to a woman who operated it as a, as a hotel for years. Seems about right. Yeah. But like in 1940, yeah, 1942, it caught on fire and it was completely destroyed. The ruins of it still stand today because it was, much of it was stone.

And so the stone walls still stand, but that's it. Everything else is gone. A librarian who spent years working in the Snyder collection, cataloging the books, says that she believes Robert Snyder Jr. haunts the library. Oh, really? Yeah. She said that he loves his books so much that he never wanted to leave them.

Oh, my God. Yeah. So that's the story of the Snyders and the Lake of the Ozarks and Ha Ha Tonka. That is so cool. Still today you can go see the Ha Ha Tonka castle ruins. It's a park now. The state did end up

buying the property back. Ironically it is now a park. It is now a park. The state bought it back and you can tour the ruins. Part of them have been closed off now because they're worried that like some of it because they still had like the arches and stuff available that you could go through and they're worried about stones falling from the arches now so they've closed off part of it but it's there yeah my family was there like two or three years

yeah yeah yeah and i want to pull up pictures now yeah it's super cool looking yeah just an incredible place that story was so awesome isn't that nuts oh my god they have pictures of it on fire oh they do yes just do an image search it's crazy oh my gosh it's so cool looking i've never been to it we should go we should it's really really cool it's super cool i just like was i mean it's hideous now because of the lake of the ozarks and you know like it was once the most beautiful place but uh now not so much oh oh i um i had done like i had done all this research on this other crime and i was like it's too dark i don't want to talk about it.

And I was like, I wonder what else James A. Reed's been up to. And so that's how I found this case. That is so awesome. I love it. I love it. It's so it's so fascinating to me to like for you to like pick a topic that I think I kind of know. Yeah. I didn't know any of that.

That was awesome. So this one, I was going to do this one last week. But I got deep into the research, not even that deep really. I was like, this is too much. It's too gruesome. Can't do it. And for whatever reason, like this week I was like, yes. I'm feeling gruesome. Can't do it. And for whatever reason, like this week, I was like, yes. I'm feeling gruesome.

I'm feeling awful. Do you know this story? Not off of this, no. Okay. Here we go. Okay. Should I be scared? You don't need to be scared.

It's a bad one. Okay. handle it of course you can okay good thanks geza de kaplani these words you're saying i know it's a name some of the so the names in this story are mostly hungarian okay and i looked some of them up. I'm trying real hard here. Okay. I appreciate the effort. Sure. Thank you. Géza de Kaplany was born in Hungary in 1926. He was raised in a wealthy, aristocratic, and highly dysfunctional family. At some point in his childhood, his dad beat him so badly that Geza lost sight in one eye. Oh, my gosh. One source said that he lost the whole fucking eye. Oh.

But, you know, either way, it's bad. Yeah. So there's that. But despite all that, Geza seemed to do okay in life. He was very intelligent. He became a doctor. He graduated from medical school with honors. He became an author.

He became a Hungarian freedom fighter. Holy shit. A little while later, in 1957, he immigrated to the United States. But he quickly discovered that the United States wasn't going to recognize his medical degree. But that didn't hold him back for too long. He decided to start over in the United States, and this time he'd study anesthesiology. Pretty quickly, he got an internship at a Milwaukee hospital. I'm sorry, at Milwaukee hospital.

Hey, it's a Milwaukee Hospital. You know, I stumbled over it as I was researching. How arrogant. It's just Milwaukee Hospital. So he was there for almost exactly one year. And people all seemed to notice that he wasn't a super social guy. Didn't seem to make connections with anybody, no friends. But they figured he's new to the country, new to the city.

Maybe he's just uncomfortable. Yeah. After the internship, he went to Harvard University and Yale Medical School. One source said that he studied at Harvard and taught at Yale. That seems unlikely. Yeah. So, anyway. I don't know. Yeah. At any rate,

the important part is, after all of his prestigious schooling was done, he moved out to San Jose, California for a job at San Jose Hospital. Can you go the way to San Jose? That's beautiful. Thank you, I just wrote it. Then, in the summer of 1962,

he met Heina Pille. Heina was also from Hungary, and she was gorgeous. Stunning. She was a model. And at one point, she'd been a showgirl at Bimbo's 365 Club. Whoa! Which is still around today.

Oh! Haina was kind of a big deal. Her father had been this internationally known fencing star. I didn't read into him too much, but was an olympic yeah guy fencer yeah and here she was making a name for herself at bimbos and bimbos some newspaper articles called her um the most beautiful woman in san francisco you know i think that's something other pictures of her yes don't look her up yet. Okay. Okay. Keep your pants on. But about two years before she met Geza, her father died.

So it was just Heina and her mom living in California. This is kind of interesting. According to one source that I read, Heina wasn't super into Geza, but her mom was charmed by him and her mom was thrilled that he was this aristocrat with this great job so even though hyena already had a boyfriend whom she loved she decided to basically keep the peace with her mom and marry or i'm sorry and start dating geyser uh-huh spoiler alert do they get married like in five minutes so they met in june married in august whoa too fast it's pretty fast too soon it's pretty soon she was 25 and he was 36 that's not that bad oh it's not great. Swim in your own pool is all I'm saying.

Swim in your own pool. That's only 11 years. Yeah, I know. I don't think that's that crazy. I can do math like that. It's not crazy. It's not crazy. But you know how I get.

It's not 47 and 18. Well, no. But I mean, like, come on. That's super crazy. This is more like, you know, my thoughts on age gaps. Sometimes they're fine. Sometimes I feel like the older person is going after someone who's young and naive and will tolerate more of their bullshit than someone their own age would tolerate.

Gotcha. Just a theory. Okay. That many people on Reddit agree with. They'd only been married for a few weeks. Some sources said five weeks, but like, August isn't that long a month. But anyway, okay.

So, they were having problems. Already? Geysa couldn't perform on their honeymoon. What do you mean? If you know what I'm saying. I don't know what you're saying at all, Kristen. Well, Ina wanted to see some tap dancing, and he couldn't perform. He couldn't do it, okay?

And as a man, you want to be able to tap dance on your wedding night. a man you want to be able to tap dance on your wedding night on august 27th geyser was feeling pretty low so he went to the home of jane haju a comely svelte blonde of 58 and i'm of course quoting from a newspaper article from that time. She was a widow. So I'm just throwing this out there. Okay. Pick it up if you must. Jane had actually known Heine for a long time. They went all the way back to Hungary

and she'd known Geza for about a year. He'd helped her get a job at the hospital where they worked. When Geza came toane's home that day he was distraught about his new marriage he told her nothing is going all right i'm very unhappy she pushes me away she's cold she doesn't care for me well he was miserable and he wanted advice from his svelte friend. Jane claims she knew what was going on with the marriage. So she says that she knew that Heine was cheating on him. But like that is totally up for debate whether or not that was actually happening. But at any rate, she says initially she did not

have the courage to tell geyser what was going on so instead she like hinted at it and she was like is it possible that heina is interested in another man and he was like no way no absolutely not no i mean i couldn't tap dance that night but i can tap dance any other day so what do you want i't tap dance that night, but I can tap dance any other day, so. What do you want? I'll tap dance right now. So there's like all this hemming and hawing, and finally she's like, dude, okay, I'm gonna spell it out. I think she's

seeing another guy. Sorry to tell you. That night, Geza had a sleepover at Jane's place. What kind of sleepover? Was there tap dancing? Um, I certainly think so, but you know.

Didn't find any good source on that. She claims that she saw him as like a son. Who she wanted to bang. Gross! I'm just kidding. Why did you say that because i think she's full of shit i just do and i have nothing to back that up just a gut feeling i'm not the only one who feels that way okay i've got good company the next day Geza and his good friend Jane went to attorney Scott Anderson.

Geza told Scott that he wanted a divorce. And Scott said, sure, okay, I can help with that. You can get an easy, fast divorce and we'll just claim mental cruelty. But Geza was having none of it. He was like, no, I want a divorce on the grounds of adultery. none of it he was like no i want a divorce on the grounds of adultery and scott was like okay what evidence do you have yeah in case it was like well you know my my good buddy here says that it's happening yeah and scott was like yeah that's not enough at all. You need stronger proof than that. Oh, by the way, a divorce like that is going to drag out for a long time. Yeah.

Geza was not loving what he was hearing. He wanted a divorce and he wanted it on the grounds of adultery and he wanted it fast. He was especially fixated on the idea of alimony. He was especially fixated on the idea of alimony. He was like, I don't want to pay her anything on principle. Even one penny of alimony would be unfair to me. Oh, gosh. Uh-huh.

Geza ended their meeting saying, whatever you do, do it fast, fast, fast. Hmm. What? Why does that? Why is he in such a hurry you know i mean they've been married for like almost if you can imagine five weeks by that time and by that amount of time can really wear on a person uh-huh but it would have been impossible to get a divorce as quickly as Geza wanted. And really, he didn't want a divorce. He wanted violence.

What? So that night, he convinced Taina to sleep with him. And once she was on the bed, he tied her there and tortured her. hide her there and tortured her. He cut her open with a butcher knife and he poured acid all over her. He did this for hours. Oh my gosh. She got third degree corrosive burns all over her body. Oh my gosh.

Her face, you couldn't even recognize it. And her genitals had been eaten away. They were living in an apartment complex. So Geza tried to drown out the sounds by playing an opera very loudly the whole time, which I think makes it, I mean, not that it makes it better or worse, but I mean, that just seems, adds a creepy element. So he cranked up the volume and told Heine that if she made a sound, he would kill her.

But eventually, obviously, the pain got to be way too much. And even though she was gagged, her screams got so loud that they overpowered the music and neighbors called the police. Screams got so loud that they overpowered the music and neighbors called the police. Another source said that no one called the police or no neighbors called the police. It was Geza who called the police. But at any rate, after three hours of torture, police arrived on the scene. An ambulance came and Heina's body was so disfigured and so covered in acid that when they went to handle her body, they burned their hands.

Oh, my gosh. Yes. Gaysa, this is really, this is not your cup of tea. No, it's not. And yet here we are. Do you think we're like Freaky Friday right now? Maybe we are. Do you think we're like Freaky Friday'd right now? Maybe we are. Man, what would I do?

You know, it would be terrible if we were Freaky Friday'd. Do you know how many people would get terrible haircuts? How dare you? I mean, you don't know how to do it. It's not like my hands do it themselves. Yeah, that'd be really, really bad. Suddenly you can only run like a quarter of a mile before you get your crutches. I mean, that'd be no big deal. Who am I affecting if I just go out for a run and I turn back around?

But with you, people would be like, really? Do I have to get a buzz cut? I'm sorry, ma'am. You do. All buzz cuts all day. You're not going to love the way you look. I guarantee it. Geza wasn't shy about what he'd done. He told the police, I did it to frighten her, to put fear into her for being an adulteress. She's not going to die. I just wanted to take her beauty away. Oh, my goodness.

That's fucked up. Yeah, no, he's he's freaking. I don't even know what to say. He's like he's a scary, awful. Yeah. I don't even know what to say. He's like, he's a scary, awful person. Heine was still alive when the ambulance arrived,

and she continued to live in the hospital. Her mother came and prayed for her, and the whole time, Heine said she'd never cheated on Geza. Sergeant Don Edwards came to take Heine's statement, and she told him everything. She said that Geza had bound her hands and feet and gagged her. And then he pulled out a suitcase that contained bottles of acid, rubber gloves, tape, gauze and electrical cord. She told the sergeant, I was out of my mind with pain.

The hospital staff was stunned by Heine's injuries. I mean, this is like stuff you don't just see, you know? Some of them could barely look at her. It was that bad. Doctors said she had a very low chance of survival, and if she did survive, she'd probably never see again, and she'd obviously have permanent scars all over her face and body. She'd obviously have permanent scars all over her face and body. Days passed. She was in agony. And at one point, she regained sight in one eye. But eventually, after 33 days in the hospital,

Heine died from her injuries. It was a long, painful, horrible death. One crime reporter said her death was the most horrendous single murder in american history gaza was initially charged with attempted murder but once heina died he was charged with murder by torture i'm sorry how long was it till she died 33 days. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, this guy was fucked up. Ugh. Because you know she just had to be in terrible, terrible pain.

Yeah. His lawyer, E.F. DeVilbiss, which you know I hate. DeVilbiss? See, I'm fine with DeVilbiss. What do you know? DeVilbiss? See, I'm fine with DeVilbiss. I hate it when people go by initials. Do you think it's DeVilbiss? D-E-V-I-L-B-I-S-S. What do you say?

I don't know. I feel like the emphasis must be wrong, but... DeVilbiss. DeVilbiss? DeVilbiss? DeVilbiss. I don't know. Divile-bus Divile-bus? Divile-bus? Divile-bus I don't know It doesn't matter

I have no Like I know No more than you I'm just Feeling pretty confident About it being Divile-bus Boy

Doesn't that sum us up? We have the same Amount of knowledge But one of us is randomly more confident than the other so he said you know geyser gets this lawyer and the lawyer says okay i think you need to plead guilty and then we'll work on an insanity defense but geyser was like uh thanks for the advice but i'm not guilty i think once the jury has heard my side of the story they'll totally get it i don't think so bud what oh come on you you heard that story i sure did yeah i'm i. He thought his spouse was cheating, so he poured acid all over her. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. So that's justified, is what he's saying? Well, all you need to know for now. Oh, my gosh. Okay. I'm so excited. Is that against the advice of his attorney, Gaza pled not guilty by reason of insanity.

His trial began in January of 1963 in front of a jury of 10 men and two women. Do you think that's going to work in his favor? Well, I mean, you know the outcome. Yeah, I think that would work in his favor. Why? Well, I mean, you know the outcome. Yeah, I think that would work in his favor. Why?

Women are not going to be sympathetic to him at all. That is so interesting that you say that. Why? You think it's the women that are going to hold? Well, I mean, you know, so are the women going to hold out? Let's see, shall we? But that was exactly what people thought at the time, too, that um for him to have a shot in hell yeah it needed to be a male heavy jury and that's what he got the prosecution was pumped this was a slam dunk case hmm did he do it well let's see they had a motive they had a confession

from him they had a statement from the victim. Doesn't get more clear cut than that. Yeah. The prosecution detailed exactly what Geza had done in all its cruelty. The whole time Geza was sitting there showing no emotion. A few days into the trial, the prosecution showed the jury photos of Haina's horribly burned body. Is it Haina or Haina? Oh, well, your guess is as good as mine. The prosecutor brought out the first photo. It was a black and white photo taken of Haina's back.

And at that point... I guess we've settled on Hyna. Yeah, I don't really know. Totally fucking with you, Kristen. At that point, Geza leapt out of his chair. He shouted, no! And then he tried to grab the photo out of the prosecutor's hands. Then he shouted, what did you do to her who who's he talking

to oh fuck if i know so the deputy sheriff jumps up and holds gaza back and the judge obviously called a recess because that was yeah crazy when the court reconvened, the prosecution showed more of the photos. Some of them were in color, and obviously they were much more graphic than the first one. And Gaza sat at the defense table with his head in his arms. A little while later,

after court was out of session, I'm not exactly sure the exact circumstances, but he summoned his attorney. And he was like, hey man, how do you think it's going you think i got a good shot with this or not good dude uh good yeah so to phil this was like uh no no i don't think it's going good um you are for sure gonna be found guilty maybe in the second phase they'll find that you were insane but for this phase 100% without a doubt guilty you committed the crime the jury knows it yeah geyser who had been totally unemotional up until that point, suddenly felt something deep inside.

And you know what it was? What? It was remorse over what he'd done. Was it? Yeah, he felt real bad. Damn it, Brandy! Gaze's attorney said that seeing that photo was a turning point for him.

He said, I'm a doctor. I loved her. If I did this, and I must have, then I must be guilty. The next day, they went into court, and the defense shocked everyone by changing Gaze's plea. This time, he pled guilty by reason of insanity so personally i do not buy that story at all yeah i think that's a great story for an eternity attorney to tell a court yeah like oh my gosh well you know once we saw the photos it oh, it affected my client so deeply. And all of a sudden. No, he was like, oh, fuck, I'm not getting away with this. Yes.

Let me see if I can get away with as little punishment as possible. I read something somewhere that like he thought maybe that those photos would not be shown in court. Yeah. Okay, buddy. And when they were shown, it like oh shit i can't really talk my way out of this yeah so they pled guilty by reason of insanity and in doing so that just ended the first guilty by reason of insanity huh yeah i this seems like some old-timey stuff yeah because i feel like that's not the terminology we would use today.

Yeah, I don't think that would be the terminology. Yeah. In doing, so basically it's like, was he, was he insane? And if so, he might go to an institution or something like that. Yeah, yeah, rather than prison. Yeah. There was no need to determine whether Geza did it because he for sure did it. Now the jury had to determine whether he was insane.

In the prosecution's opening statement, they pointed out that three psychiatrists who'd examined Geza after the attack all thought he was sane. This case was horrifying but simple. Geza was a jealous, violent man who wanted revenge on his wife. Yes, but the defense was like, oh, not so fast. Psychiatrist Lindsey Beaton was a key expert witness for the defense. Lindsey said that Geza was a paranoid schizophrenic. He said Geza had a total lack of emotion and that frankly he couldn't even understand why he did what he did. Lindsay delved deep into Geza's background. He said that all of his life Geza has distrusted any woman other than his mother. Geza had this super complicated relationship with his mom where he loved her, but he didn't get love in return.

And she'd let a governess raise him. So Lindsay's telling all this to the jury and talking all about the abuse that Geza suffered as a child. And how he has all these mommy issues. And Geza is sitting there. Don't say it like that. That sounds so mommy well sounds disgusting gays is sitting there he felt the same way you did his face turns bright red he's gripping the arms of his chair and finally he gets up from his chair and he yells don't talk about my mother like that

he does have mommy no gross that sounds like a never mind what a category on a disgusting porn site. It's like three ways, bondage, mommy issues. Brandy, that's a great new business idea you just came up with. So the defense attorney's like, well, buddy, arms and legs inside the car.

Like, okay, calm down. The defense said that what this all came down to was a lifelong mental illness stemming from, wait for it, a lifelong period of latent homosexuality. What? Yeah. Yeah. You know how, like, being in the closet makes you, like, pour acid on people and cut their boobs open yeah you

know how that is classic tale um so i thought that this case was interesting for so many reasons one of them being that like homosexuality was classified as a mental illness until like the 70s i think it was like 73 yeah and so in this case they're talking about being gay in the same breath as like paranoid schizophrenic and like yeah i mean i hope to god they weren't trying to put them on the same level but it was soon as like well you know he was gay so what did you expect him to do right yeah that's terrible uh yeah it was super weird yeah so what evidence did they have that he was secretly gay um he couldn't tap dance okay guys brandy just gave me the biggest most cartoonish wink

no are you ready for their evidence yeah okay this is this is how you know if a guy is gay okay are you ready i'm ready he is a ladies man and he's like constantly surrounded by women and he has sex with lots of women what yeah what brandy yes it does make sense yes it does let me explain to you okay yeah explain to me how that makes someone gay and by the way this is obviously he's overcompensating because he wants to have sex with a man so badly he's having sex with lots of women. So, yeah, here's how you know about the secret gayness. It's because, and this is the words of the psychiatrist,

a normal man doesn't have to go out and prove his masculinity again and again. Okay. That was another fun thing about these articles. It was like heterosexual, that word did not pop about these articles it was like heterosexual that word did not pop up it was the word was normal oh lovely so anyway that's you know that's how you know that's how you know if someone's gay so just man tuck that away i'll just keep that in my yeah file cabinet up there for later use what What is it, the 80s? Your file cabinet?

Yeah, you don't picture your brain, like, with file cabinets in it when you're, like, searching for a fact? No, mine is like a high-tech computer. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. I mean, mine's a file cabinet. Shit ton of file cabinets. I got it up there. It's sometimes going to take a minute to find it. Okay, I'm picturing you like a Kathy cartoon right now.

Yeah. So basically, here's what this all comes down to. When Geza heard the rumor that his wife was cheating on him, it threatened his heterosexual stud charade. He was so rattled that it put him into a jekyll and hyde mode and he snapped not buying it what part did you not understand i mean i heard all of it i think it's all bullshit so the prosecution obviously had their own psychiatrist and they were like hold on this is ridiculous at one point psychiatrist christian

johnson testified for the prosecution he you know kind of did his spiel he said that gaysa was legally sane and as for all those questions about whether he was secretly gay christian said no his exact words were that gaysa had a sex life. But on cross-examination, defense attorney E.F. DeVilbiss walked up to the witness stand with a photo. He handed it to Christian. He said, I ask you to take a look at this. Who does it look like? to take a look at this. Who does it look like? And Christian looks at the photo and then kind of looked over at Geza

and was like, I see the resemblance. So the photo appeared to be of a teenage girl wearing a striped dress, her hair kind of up, but it was actually Geza in a dress. her hair kind of up, but it was actually dun-dun-dun,

Geza in a dress. Okay? Brandon, you don't seem to grasp what this means. I'm sorry, what's that supposed to be revealing? Yes, his mother had taken that photo of him when he was a child,

and, you know, clearly... Yeah, when he was playing dress up. DeVilbiss said, if I told you this was the doctor, would you still put so much faith in his story that he has had a normal sex life? Yes. At this point, DeVilbiss was on a roll. He was like, don't you think homosexuality could be a factor in what happened here? Don't you think it could lead to paranoid delusions? Don't you think it could make a man fixate on his wife's infidelity?

No. And Christian was like, whoa, cool it, buddy. Theoretically, I guess it could. But I don't think that's what happened here. Yeah. I mean, yes, I guess theoretically, sure, but I have seen no proof that that's the case here. I mean, anything's possible. Because he was in a dress when he was a kid. Well, and I'm sorry, but what boy didn't put on a dress?

Put on a dress, yeah. And even if, so even if, my thing is, I don't think he was really secretly gay, but even if he was, or even if he was trans or whatever, that doesn't mean you're going to murder somebody. Not at all. So DeVilbiss was like, oh, really? Have you seen a photo of Haina's dead body? And Christian was like, no. No, thank you.

So he goes here. Let me show it to you. So he goes back to the desk, picks up a photo of her dead body. And he goes up to Christian and he's like, tell me, doctor, why'd he do this? Huh? And Christian was like, recoils because it's a horrible image.

And he's like, I don't know. He was like, it was the defendant's reaction to tense emotions. And DeVilbiss was like, psh. He said, wives had been unfaithful to husbands before and vice versa.

We all have emotions. And this is your explanation? An emotional reaction? Yes. I think that's completely possible yeah um why does it have to be some secret yes if he is already i i believe it's possible if he is already dealing with mental illness yeah dealing with some kind of underlying issues a normal person yes would And by normal, I do not mean heterosexual. I know, we gotta be careful about normal.

No, I do not mean heterosexual. I think sexuality has zero to do with this case at all. Well, wait, didn't you hear the part about the photo, though? The defense kept hammering away at this idea that Geza was a Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. In fact, de Vilbiss told the jury that there were two people within the defendant. There was Geza de Caplani, the nice doctor. And then there was Pierre de la Roche, his evil alter ego. What? He even named it? Well, of course. I mean, this was a different guy.

Named Pierre. This is so ridiculous. No, Brandy. Do you even want to hear about Pierre? I would love to hear about Pierre. Pierre de la Roche was a seedy French journalist with no moral compass. And it was Pierre who committed the crime. Making stuff up now?

No! No! Pierre was a pretty bad dude. And he'd been plaguing Geza for years. for years. Gaza told a psychiatrist who testified for the defense that once, when he was in Boston, a woman walked up to him

and said, Pierre, it isn't nice of you to hide from me. But he'd never seen this woman before. He'd never seen her before, Brandy. Oh my gosh. So imagine his surprise when he found out that they'd had sex and that she was pregnant with his child. What?

Oh, Pierre. Oh, Pierre. Pierre was up to all kinds of shenanigans all the time. The prosecution was livid over this theory. They did everything they could to push against it. One thing they did was point out that Gays had gotten really good grades in psychology and psychiatry classes, trying to show that this insanity defense was a bunch of shit.

Was a formulated thing. Yeah, and that he was a smart guy who was playing yeah the system he brought forth witnesses who said that gaza was calm on the day of the crime he had a good appetite he was smoking but then the defense got up smoking hot sorry for the record i have no idea what he looks like um not that great some accounts called him handsome but i'm like i don't know where the standards different in the 60s not into it the defense got up and they were like whoa you said he was smoking on the day of the crime that's very interesting because only pierre de la roche yes yes

gaza doesn't smoke only pierre smokes that's so ridiculous no case closed brandy no case closed, Brandy. No, not case closed. The prosecution was so frustrated. They were like, Pierre de la Roche does not exist. Yeah, he's not a real person. He's fake. There's just one shitty guy, and his name is Geza de Caplani. And by the way, he has a history of being awful to women. Yeah.

They called witnesses to the stand. One of them was a nurse who had worked with him at the hospital she told the jury that he'd invited her to go skiing with him at yosemite ski resort so she went and when they arrived at the resort she realized that he'd only booked one room she was pissed that night he tried to like make a move on her you know because he was secretly gay and she said no i'm not gonna have sex with you so what did that fucker do he took off he left her there knowing full well she had no way of getting back oh no he took off as, like, revenge for her saying no. That's shitty.

But the biggest witness for the prosecution was a surprise. Hmm. Earlier in the trial, the prosecution listened to that story about how, you know, some woman had come up to Geza slash Pierre and said, hey, I'm pregnant with your child. And they thought, hmm, wouldn't it be interesting to try to figure out, number one, if she exists, and number two, what her side of the story is. Turns out she was, in fact, real. She was living in Germany, so they flew her out for the trial. They kept her as their final rebuttal witness. Her name was Ruth Kruger.

She testified that she'd met... Is she her brother? I don't know. Why? Freddie? Oh, God. That's a dad joke. You're not allowed to make dad jokes when you're, like, a 30-year-old woman. I'm sorry, you're 32.

How dare you? old woman. I'm sorry, you're 32. How dare you? She testified that she'd met Geza when she was studying in Cambridge. They'd gone out about five times and she'd gotten pregnant. Ruth wanted to get married and Geza was totally on board. There was just one big, really sad problem. There was just one big, really sad problem. He was already married. Which is why he wanted a quick, quick, super fast, quick divorce? No, this was before. Oh, okay.

But he was already married. And that's why he couldn't marry Ruth. You see, his wife, who was 100% real and not made up for any manipulative purposes. He made up a wife. He loved her very much, but she was in a mental institution. So he couldn't just... It wouldn't be right to divorce her. You understand, right? So he talked Ruth into

going to Sweden to have the baby. Why? What happens in Sweden? She gets the hell out of his life okay he promised her that he'd take out an insurance policy that would financially support her and their unborn child he was like love you so much goodbye then when ruth got over to europe he changed the beneficiary on the policy to his mom. Oh, neat.

He wrote Ruth letters about how sad it was to be him. In one, which the prosecution introduced into evidence, he wrote, I have long loved my wife, and how long she will live, I don't know. His fake wife? Brandy! In the mental hospital?

Yes! Yeah, there's a lot of love there for this fake wife? Brandy. In the mental hospital? Yes. Yeah. There's a lot of love there for this fake wife. I'm going to start over again. No, I'm sorry. You jerk. Sorry. Reading fucking poetry here.

I've long loved my fake wife. I have long loved my wife. And how long she will live I don't know I only want to follow the voice of my heart in this I am so alone so terribly alone yeah because your wife is fake that is so lonely when you only have a fake wife it's like you don't feel sorry for him at all. The prosecution was like, hey, Ruth, one quick thing. You knew him as Pierre, correct? And she said, no.

And they were like, yeah, Pierre de La Roche. You've never heard that name? No. Nope. She was like, I've always known him as dr gaza de caplani the defense did not know what to do with this witness they thought they'd done a pretty good job with their insanity defense but ruth's testimony showed that gaza was super conniving and manipulative all they could say was that there was a language barrier

and that perhaps she didn't understand the prosecution's questions. No. When it came time for closing arguments, the defense went first. They asked that the lights be dimmed, and they showed slide after slide of Heine's dead body. But why did the defense... Yeah, I'm like, what? Why is the defense showing slides of her dead body?

If you had to take a guess, what would you guess? I have no idea. They didn't... To show that a normal person would not be capable of that, it has to be someone who's mentally ill. So I'm sure that's what they said. Uh-huh. But they did it because they knew the prosecutor

wanted to show those pictures. And DeVilbiss said, I wanted to pull his fangs a little. Yeah, take the sting out of it. The jury went into deliberation for three days. Ultimately, they were swayed by the testimony about his abusive childhood. So instead of sending him to the gas chamber they gave him license life in prison like probably got lice in prison and the jury ordered it which is weird they normally just

it's so itchy it's just terrible both head and pubic no oh oh too much sorry too much in this classy tale that i have told so i thought this was interesting they found him legally sane but medically insane so the legal test was basically could he tell right from wrong yeah and they felt that he did know right from wrong? And they felt that he did know right from wrong, but having said that, that he was very sick. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, another article put it this way. They found him mentally ill, but

not insane. Something kind of interesting. So everyone felt the way you did about the jury makeup, that like, men would be more lenient, women would be very unforgiving yeah it went the exact opposite way really so three men on the jury were completely locked in on the death penalty they were like death is the only appropriate consequence for this crime. But the rest of the men and the two women were like,

I don't feel good about this. This guy is mentally unwell. We can't put him to death. People were pissed about this verdict. People demanded that the judge overrule the jury, but he didn't. He let their verdict stand. After the trial, G gaza expressed zero remorse

he told the media that he didn't feel any responsibility he said he was taken over by forces he could not control he also said some other things that like pissed me off but i was like okay i'm just getting a little silly here he kind of shit on america he was basically like you guys haven't been through air raids you haven't been through what i've been through you're an immature country and therefore that's why you weren't sympathetic to what i've been through it's like okay no one guessed you dude but gaza went to prison under the laws at the time you were eligible for parole after seven years seven years life in prison plus lice the lice was so cruel and unusual that they were like let's get on parole

but no one was gonna let this guy go he went up for parole he was denied he went up for parole again he was denied again but then in 1974 a three-judge panel found that the trial court made an error during gaza's trial what error i think this is interesting and i kind of agree with them the judges said that the trial court should have held a hearing to determine whether Gaza was competent to stand trial. Yeah. And they should have held a hearing to determine whether he was competent to plead guilty. They said, look, either release him or give him a new trial. The following year, the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals reviewed the three judge panels decision and they said, yeah, he needs a new trial. That was a controversial decision because it had been such a horrifying crime

and it wasn't unanimous. One of the judges said due process requires a fair trial, not a perfect trial. I kind of agree with that. I agree with that, too. Yeah. But while all this was going on, something batshit crazy happened. Gaysa was coming up for parole again, and he was able to rally support from the San Francisco Catholic Church. What? Yeah. So the Catholic Church really stood by him throughout the trial.

I didn't write this part down, but I believe the priest who married him and Heine testified at trial and said that Geza seemed like the more moral one of the two. Okay. Right? Excellent. Archbishop Joseph McGuckin visited the chairman of the state parole board. He said, look, I have a proposal for you. Geza is a talented man. Let him give his life to the church.

Let him become a medical missionary. Geza was, of course, all over this. He was like, yes, I would love to help. I would be thrilled to help others and get the hell out of prison. So on November 13th, 1975, Geza was given a secret parole. He was released from prison and no one told the prosecutors, no one told the police, no one told the press, no one told the public,

no one told Hina's family. What? They sent him off on a flight to Taiwan and didn't tell anyone. Oh my gosh. That's a real thing? That's a real thing? That's a real thing.

Holy crap. When news eventually got out, people were outraged. Raymond Prochner was chairman of the parole board. He was the one who helped get Geza out of prison. And I saw one article that alleged that when this case went up for parole, he took out the photos of her body, which the district attorney had said needed to stay with that file anytime he came up for parole. But they say this guy took those photos out, which, you know, yeah, if you don't see the horror of it, although even a written description. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't seen the photos.

And you're pretty horrifying yeah i think also being super sexist helps but you know whatever what do i know so people were going crazy over this guy this raymond character they were like get him out the following year raymond resigns for personal reasons gaza worked in taiwan worked in Taiwan for four years. But he was pretty miffed that San Jose officials kept calling him and checking up on him. So in 1978, he wrote them a letter. He said he'd sue them for $1 million if they didn't stop the persecution and harassment of his parole checks. That's part of being on parole.

He was a big, important doctor in Taiwan. Oh my gosh. Then, the next year, he disappeared. Where'd he go? He resurfaced a couple of times at one point he was fired from his job at a hospital in munich after a magazine wrote an article about the crime but according to the daily news inner poll was good about letting california know where he was california officials could have gone after him. But for whatever reason,

they didn't. Okay, other articles, none of the articles I saw mentioned this. Like, some of them talked about, eh, paperwork, things got lost, blah, blah, blah. But I think a huge part of it

is that he was up for a new trial. And maybe it was like the hassle of going, getting him, and then doing a new trial. maybe it was like the hassle of going getting him and then doing a new trial no one mentions that yeah in 2002 a newspaper reporter tracked him down in germany he was living a nice quiet life with his new wife he told the reporter i have done one mistake in my life i paid enough for it wow by that point he'd been a naturalized german citizen for two years and therefore could not be extradited wow yeah that's nuts that's the story of the acid doctor is he dead now um okay that's the crazy thing uh you might think i mean he'd be

in his 90s and i i can tell just from like some basic web sleuthing that people are kind of like still interested in this and someone said that as recently as 2015 he's not dead oh my gosh that's nuts i'd never heard of that before. It's one of those that like, it was frustrating. I want someone to go in and like do a big deep dive into it. Because I was just like trying to piece stuff together from newspapers.com. So I'm sure there's a ton of stuff I missed. But I mean, what an infuriating, crazy case.

Yeah. It was so good. And gruesome. Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, I didn't, crazy case. Yeah. It was so good. And gruesome. Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, I didn't love that part. Yeah. Well. But when we're Freaky Friday-ing it.

There are no rules. That's right. What do you got over there to talk about this week? I have a few notes. Oh, boy. I want to talk about, is it civets is that what those things civets yes our last episode holy shit did you see the thing on twitter yes oh no so um i wrote it down actually okay good first talk about civets a little explain okay civets

were um where sars got transferred from these crazy bats to people they're kind of a cross between a cat and an otter um i don't know what they're classified as i don't think they're a feline i don't know that for sure um but they're um present in asia and africa and somehow they took the SARS disease from bats to humans in Hong Kong in 2003. So you said somehow they did it. Kristen thinks it's because someone fucked a civet, fucked that cat thing. So yeah, in the episode, I was like, well, obviously someone fucked one of those cat things. And then Andrew on Twitter pointed out that the more obvious answer is that a cat bit someone. I even think the answer is more obvious than that. Now that that other

person sent us that message about civets. Oh, I didn't see the coffee beans. Oh, okay. I did write that one down. Okay. So Jesse on Twitter said, just a fun fact about civets, since they were mentioned in the latest episode, people use coffee beans from their excrements for brewing coffee since apparently the enzymes in their digestive system has a certain effect on the beans and makes for a better coffee. See, I think that makes sense that the civets were eating like the bat droppings and then people took the coffee beans out of the civet droppings and then boom you've got sars okay and nobody fucked one of those cat things hopefully i just wanted to bring it up because it was such like every now and then you have a moment where you're like am i a freak because andrew said the thing about maybe this civet bit someone. And I was like, oh my God, that legit never occurred to me.

When you brought that up, my mind immediately went to someone fucked one of those cats. So anyway, I'm sorry, everyone. Sorry for insinuating that people were fucking cats. Maybe they were, but there's other options. Also, I'd like to mention that I think it was in the last episode, I brought up my business idea where, or maybe it was two episodes ago, where I said that I want to set up a camera in your salon so we could just have video of haircuts happening. I thought it would be really relaxing.

I thought people would be into it. No. No, no one's into it. No. No. No one's into it. No one's into it. Everybody thinks that creepers are going to come out of the woodwork and I agree. One person on Reddit said, I think that sounds like an invitation for creepy balloon guy

to come back. And boy are they right. So I will stop harassing you about my business idea. Thank you. Literally everyone says it's awful. Nobody thinks it's great. What do you have going on?

Today, as of recording time, the Act premieres on Hulu. Yes. premieres on hulu yes which is a show based on the gypsy and dd blanchard case very excited kristin covered so well on this podcast beautifully yes amazingly yeah the best so i'm the previews for it looks so good. I can't wait to watch it. Yeah. Okay. I'm come to watch it too. Yeah, definitely.

Um, Oh my God. That was my stomach. Are you hungry? Is it time for lunch? It's time for lunch. We better wrap this thing up then. All right. You guys know what to do.

Find us on social media. We're on Facebook. We're on Twitter. We're on Instagram. We're on YouTube. We're on Reddit. head on over to iTunes. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. We're headed towards 200. That's our next goal. Please help us get there. And then join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics.

Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the book Doctors Who Kill, Profiles of Lethal Medics by Carol Ann Davis, The Oakland Tribune, Newspapers.com, and Wikipedia. And I got my info from the Christian County Headliner, a book by J. Michael Cronin with a ridiculously long title, The Bolivar Herald Free Press, and LakeHistory.com.

For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.